Military Review

Ukrainian BMP based on the T-64 tank

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The T-64A tank was created in the sixties of the last century and became the first domestic armored vehicle of a new class. The first Soviet main tank showed high performance, but over time its capabilities ceased to meet the requirements of the military. Several upgrades were made, but are currently remaining in the Russian army Tanks T-64A is gradually decommissioned and disposed of. In addition to the Russian armored forces, the first domestic main tank is used by several CIS countries. Due to material and moral obsolescence, the combat capabilities of the T-64A tanks are the subject of fierce debate. At the same time, a relatively large number of tanks that could undergo modernization remain in parts and on storage bases.


In the middle of the two thousand years, the Ukrainian designers created two original projects of armored vehicles, which involve the repair and re-equipment of the old model tanks. On the basis of the T-64A tanks it is proposed to make heavy-duty infantry fighting vehicles. Such projects, in which the tank “turns” into an armored personnel carrier or infantry fighting vehicle, have already been developed by foreign industry and have proven themselves well. For example, in the armament of the Israeli army from the end of the eighties consists of a heavy armored vehicle "Akhzarit". The technology of this model was based on captured T-55 tanks captured from the enemy.

BMPV-64

The BMPV-64 project, created by the Kharkov Armored Repair Plant, implies major changes in the design of the tank, but it uses a significant number of components and assemblies of the base tank. In a heavy BMP, the same powerplant and chassis are used as on the T-64A. The body of the base machine is subject to noticeable changes, but some of its parts remain the same.




The armored body of the infantry combat vehicle BMPV-64 was proposed to be made from the corresponding unit of the T-64A tank. However, the new project involves a major change in the layout of internal volumes. The engine compartment of the BMP was moved to the front of the hull, which made it possible to give the middle and aft part under a single habitable volume. Corresponding changes undergone and undercarriage. In fact, when developing the BMPV-64 machine, the Ukrainian designers turned the base tank's hull backwards and equipped it with a set of equipment typical of infantry fighting vehicles.

The heavy infantry combat vehicle of the new model turned out to be noticeably lighter than the tank, which served as the basis for it. The combat weight of the BMVV-64 is 34,5 tons. Despite its lower weight, the promising BMP has a level of protection comparable to that of the T-64A. Combined reservation of the frontal part of the machine provides protection against armor-piercing sabots 105-mm guns. The onboard armor is able to withstand a hit of an 30-mm projectile. When remaking a tank in an infantry fighting vehicle, additional armor is installed on the bottom of the hull, which increases the level of protection for the crew and the machine’s units. The possibility of crew survival in the explosion of anti-tank mines TM-57. Also, the survivability of the combat vehicle is enhanced by the use of a dynamic protection system. It was argued that, at the request of the customer, the BMPV-64 can be equipped with an active protection system.

The first prototype infantry combat vehicle BMPV-64 retained most of the units of the power plant of the base tank. In front of his body, they installed a 5TDF diesel engine with horsepower 700 hp. With a power density of about 20 HP A promising heavy infantry fighting vehicle can accelerate on a highway to 60 km / h per ton of weight. Fuel reserve is enough to overcome 600 km. If necessary, an 6TD engine with a power of 1000 hp can be installed on the machine, which should accordingly affect its mobility. The undercarriage of an infantry fighting vehicle was borrowed from the T-64А tank with some modifications. As in the case of the base tank, the BMP has six track rollers with a torsion bar suspension on each side. In this case, the guide wheel is transferred to the aft part of the hull, and the drive wheel - to the front, due to the characteristics of the layout of the machine.

For the engine compartment housed the department of management with the jobs of the driver and the commander. The third crew member is behind them and manages the existing combat module. The middle and aft of the hull are given under a large troop compartment. On the benches along the sides of the machine can accommodate 12 fighters with weapons. For landing and landing troops in the stern of the hull provided double door.

The prototype BMVV-64, built in the middle of the two thousandth, carried a remotely controlled combat module. The armament of an experienced BMP consisted of an automatic cannon caliber 30 mm and an 7,62-mm machine gun paired with it. As the main weapons KBA-2 and ZTM-2 cannons (Ukrainian versions of the 2А42) can be used. It was also claimed that, at the request of the customer, the prospective infantry fighting vehicle could receive an additional combat module with remote control, armed with a large-caliber machine gun. Smoke grenade launchers are installed on the combat module and on the stern of the vehicle.

The heavy infantry fighting vehicle BMPV-64 could become the basis for equipment of several classes. The use of units of the T-64A tank allowed the installation of various special equipment and weapons weighing up to 20-22 tons on the BMP. Nevertheless, the only prototype of the perspective vehicle was equipped with a combat module with a cannon and a machine gun.

At the beginning of 2012, there were reports about the creation of a new version of BMPV-64. The upgraded car received an updated body and a number of new systems. At the same time, a high degree of unification with the base main tank remained. Thus, the contours of the armored hull were changed and ennobled, the equipment of the habitable volume changed. BMP received a new hatch for landing and landing troops. On the updated BMPV-64, it consists of two parts, the lower of which in the open position serves as a ramp.

The upgraded BMP received a new weapons complex, located in the turret. It consisted of the 30-mm automatic cannon, machine gun and automatic grenade launcher, as well as the Barrier anti-tank missile system. The four launchers accommodate four transport and launch containers with missiles.

Since the publication of the first information about the machine BPVV-64 she was predicted a great future. It was argued that by the end of the decade, this BMP would be put into service by the ground forces of Ukraine and would gradually replace outdated and obsolete infantry fighting vehicles of other models. Nevertheless, so far, the Kharkov Armored Repair Plant collected only two copies of the promising BMP (one basic version, the second - modernized) and conducted their tests. The difficult economic situation in the country determined the future fate of the project. Ukraine simply does not have the opportunity to begin full-scale re-equipment of old tanks into infantry fighting vehicles.

Ukrainian BMP based on the T-64 tank



It should also be noted that the use of the T-64A tank as a basis significantly reduces the export potential of the new machine. T-64A tanks have been preserved only in a few countries: in Russia, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan and Transnistria. The likelihood that these states will order the modernization of existing equipment from Kharkov tank builders is extremely small. In this regard, an interesting project of converting the main tank into an infantry fighting vehicle is unlikely to give any tangible results.



BMP-K-64

When modifying the T-64A in the BMPV-64, the propulsion system or the undercarriage did not undergo significant changes, which simplified the process of manufacturing a heavy BMP. Almost simultaneously with the development of the tracked BMP, the designers of the Kharkov Armored Repair Plant began designing a similar-purpose vehicle equipped with a different undercarriage. In the new project BMP-K-64 (also the designation BMPT-K-64 is also encountered) it was supposed to apply the same approach to the creation of technology as in BMPV-64. Ukrainian engineers were going to use the hull, powerplant and a number of other units of the base tank, but at the same time promising BMP was to receive a new wheeled chassis.

As in the previous project, the body of the machine BMP-K-64 is made on the basis of the hull of the T-64A tank with the appropriate modifications. The layout of both heavy infantry fighting vehicles is the same: the engine compartment compartment in the front of the hull and the control compartment behind it, and the rest of the volume is given to the eight-seat troop compartment. As follows from the available materials, both machines are unified for a number of units, including the power plant and internal equipment.

The main difference between heavy infantry fighting vehicles is in their undercarriage. Within the framework of the BMP-K-64 project, Kharkov engineers tried to equip the armored vehicle with a wheel propulsion device. To this end, the 700-strong 5TDF engine mated with a new transmission, transmitting torque to all eight wheels. In the transmission, an individual hydrostatic drive of each wheel with a speed control system was used. The use of a hydraulic actuator made it possible to place pipelines along the sides of the hull, without taking volumes from the troop compartment and the control compartment.

According to reports, the first prototype of the BMP-K-64 machine was designed to test the very possibility of using the wheel chassis on a similar technique. In this regard, the first prototype of the promising BMP did not receive any suspension systems. The rigid attachment of the axles did not allow the prototype to be equipped with a steering system of its usual design. Because of this, as follows from the available materials, control over the course was supposed to be carried out by changing the speed of rotation of the wheels. For this, all wheels were equipped with an individual speed control system.



The installation of the wheel suspension made it possible to significantly reduce the combat weight of the vehicle. BMP-K-64 without installed weapons weighs only 17,7 tons. Such a weight saving in the future can allow to increase the load capacity. The hydraulically driven 5TDF engine provides maximum speed up to 105 km / h. Power reserve - 800 km.

Booking of the BMP-K-64 case is similar to the protection of the BMPV-64. The forehead of the hull withstands hitting 105-mm shells, the sides - 30-millimeter. Declared measures to improve the resistance to mines. For this, the bottom of the car is reinforced by an additional reservation. The unification of wheeled infantry fighting vehicles with tracked vehicles suggests the possibility of using systems of dynamic and active protection. At the same time, however, the statements that the BMP-K-64 can be considered an MRAP-class machine can hardly be considered correct. The demonstrated prototype of a promising heavy infantry fighting vehicle did not have several characteristic features of the MRAP technology. The prototype BMP-K-64, for obvious reasons, did not have a special V-shaped bottom, and was not equipped with special seats that absorb part of the energy of the explosion of the mine.

As a weapon on the first prototype of the BMP-K-64, a remote-controlled turret with a NSV heavy-caliber machine gun was used. Gunner gun located inside the machine body. The capabilities of the power plant and the relatively small weight of the BMP allowed the developers to declare the possibility of using various combat modules with the necessary armament.

By the end of the last decade, it turned out that the BMP-K-64 project is similar to the BMPV-64 not only by the number of units used, but also by fate. Initially, experts highly appreciated the prospects of the new heavy infantry fighting vehicle. Some questions were caused by a specific wheeled chassis without suspension and wheel turning mechanisms, but overall the project looked interesting and promising. However, even a few years after the first show, the BMP-K-64 machine was not able to interest the potential buyer in the person of the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense. For economic reasons, the project is still at the prototype testing stage. The serial production of the new BMP is questionable.

Ideas and reality

Both Ukrainian projects of heavy infantry fighting vehicles look interesting and original. Using as a base for new equipment of old tanks allows you to simultaneously increase the survivability of promising infantry fighting vehicles and reduce their cost, since a large part of the tank's units is not subjected to major changes. Naturally, to create an infantry fighting vehicle with high characteristics, it is required to create and work out some new structural elements, but the prospects of such equipment more than offset all costs.

However, infantry combat vehicles BMPV-64 and BMP-K-64 still exist only in the form of prototypes. Project prospects are limited by two factors: the financial capabilities of Ukraine and poor export opportunities. Due to the nature of the production and operation of the T-64A tanks, only a few countries can order new BMPs, and not all of them will use this opportunity. As a result, interesting projects for the modernization and conversion of old main tanks to new infantry fighting vehicles risk getting stuck at the prototype testing stage for good.


















On the materials of the sites:
http://btvt.narod.ru/
http://vestnik-rm.ru/
http://alternathistory.org.ua/
http://brone-portal.info/
http://bastion-karpenko.narod.ru/
http://shushpanzer-ru.livejournal.com/


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  1. klimpopov
    klimpopov 7 November 2013 09: 02
    +6
    Thank you very much for the photo! In my opinion there has not been more!
  2. mark1
    mark1 7 November 2013 09: 26
    +3
    For me, the BMP K-64 is a dark horse. Judge for yourselves, with the mass, as in the BTR-82, the reservation of the frontal part (VLD) is 40mm steel, the fiberglass is 105mm, the steel is 60mm, the armoring is 80mm, the bottom (reinforced) is not less than 30mm ... How did you achieve that mass? Isn’t the caterpillar mover heavier than the wheel by 17 tons? Next - front wheel overload (main booking + engine and transmission in front). controllability...? Something from the pioneer club of young technicians or not recognized geniuses))) ...
    1. mark1
      mark1 7 November 2013 10: 01
      +1
      Another interesting point about tracked infantry fighting vehicles: "The use of the aggregates of the T-64A tank made it possible to install various special equipment and weapons on the BMP, weighing up to 20-22 tons." The initial mass of the T-64 tank is 38 tons, during the modernization of "Bulat" it was brought up to 45 tons and I think this is already beyond the limit, how are the developers going to load 64 tons more on the T-11 chassis, bringing the total weight to 56 tons? Quack, after all, the device)))
      1. svp67
        svp67 7 November 2013 11: 17
        +6
        Quote: mark1
        The initial mass of the T-64 tank is 38 tons,

        Yes, but now we take away the mass:
        - towers
        - guns
        - MOH with its systems,
        - STV with its subsystems,
        - ammunition for 125 mm,
        - 7,62 mm machine gun with its ammunition,
        - 12,7 mm with its ammunition load
        and plus any "small things" and changing the layout allows you to save 20-22 tons ...
        1. mark1
          mark1 7 November 2013 11: 33
          +3
          It is clear, understandable - you take "bare" iron with a suspension and from here calculate the carrying capacity of the tank chassis. But the article is talking about a finished BMP weighing 34 tons and the potential for additional installation of equipment or weapons with a total weight of up to 20-22 tons. Then - here you have listed what can be subtracted from the mass of the T-64 ... The weight of the tower is 12-14 tons, and this includes the weight of the Oudium, M.Z., BC, etc. etc. Do not forget that the T-64 is a very compact and lightweight unit (by the way, the question immediately arises as to how 12 paratroopers were crammed there). Last but not least, how does changing the layout while maintaining volume save weight?
          If you have a table of weights of structural elements and T-64 units it would be very interesting to read.
    2. tchoni
      tchoni 7 November 2013 11: 53
      +3
      In general, as far as I was able to catch from discussions of this device - gain in weight is achieved by removing the turret and weapon systems. Switching to a wheel drive provides some weight savings but is not critical.
      And such fantastic weight indicators are obtained when removing all attachments from the machine. But at the same time, as I understand it, the declared security parameters are not provided.
      1. Bad_gr
        Bad_gr 7 November 2013 21: 00
        +6
        On tracked armored personnel carrier.
        Something I'm very gnawed by doubts about resistance to 30mm and 100mm shells.
        If you enlarge the pictures, you can see that the body of the armored personnel carrier is welded from sheets of steel with a maximum of 2 cm thickness (on the upper part, it looks like 1 cm, and the tower is generally a maximum of 0,5 cm). Of course, dynamic protection is hung on the new one - this is against RPGs, it may work. But against ordinary armor-piercing (kinetic) - it is unlikely. Especially 100 (!) Mm shell.
  3. andru_007
    andru_007 7 November 2013 09: 27
    +5
    In my opinion a wonderful car! This is what is really missing in the Russian army ...
    1. tank 34
      tank 34 7 November 2013 15: 18
      +2
      Maybe you are right. But I agree with the author. Very few countries have an original chassis. And the alterations are very significant, which will undoubtedly affect its cost. It is easier to make a similar one of the tanks t 55, 54 62 72. The transfer of the MTO to the bow is actually a redesigned vehicle. There are some very good developments in the Russian Federation. The KGBM would have to deal with the actual implementation of the latest project of A. Morozov, namely the t-74.
      1. Kars
        Kars 7 November 2013 15: 40
        +3
        Quote: tank 34
        Very few countries have an original chassis.

        But it is full on the repair shops and storage bases of Ukraine.
  4. ramsi
    ramsi 7 November 2013 09: 29
    +7
    you don’t know what to complain about - except that the doorway is wider
  5. makarov
    makarov 7 November 2013 09: 35
    +3
    Quote: ramsi
    you don’t know what to complain about - except that the doorway is wider

    or a gate in the wrong color shop
    1. ramsi
      ramsi 7 November 2013 09: 44
      0
      But this is most and offensive
  6. smersh70
    smersh70 7 November 2013 09: 43
    11
    By the way, the vidon is cool..but the low quality of welds is surprising .. the feeling that a high school student did, like during the Second World War ..... Th, specialists lack chtoli ..... hi
    it is necessary to show them participation in the hostilities ... then it will be possible to judge ........
    1. Ivan_Ivanov
      Ivan_Ivanov 7 November 2013 20: 37
      +4
      Che, there are not enough experts ...

      That's right. and not because Ukraine has bad specialists. It’s just that at the Malysheva station in Kharkov it happened for months, or even for years, did not pay a salary. The people ran away from the factory in order to somehow survive and feed their families.
  7. Semurg
    Semurg 7 November 2013 09: 51
    +2
    interesting device turned out two in one BMP + terminator one question how much does this contraption cost. We seem to have T64 left at our storage bases, if we offer ours to remake them and give an affordable price, you should probably think of MO.
  8. JonnyT
    JonnyT 7 November 2013 09: 52
    +1
    I like it ..... but unfortunately there is no commercial benefit from this project .... and it does not matter that this machine will help save the lives of soldiers ... the main thing is that there is no money ..... unfortunately this is a "stillborn child"
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Akim
      Akim 7 November 2013 10: 42
      +5
      Quote: JonnyT
      .. unfortunately this is a "stillborn baby"

      And on the basis of the T-54/55?
      1. JonnyT
        JonnyT 7 November 2013 12: 02
        +2
        I think so, since potential "buyers" will have a lot of spare parts, and they also know how to service it

        Over the years, the T54 / 55 have been delivered, were, or are in service in the following countries:

        Albania (15 T-54 and 15 “59” at 1995), Algeria, Angola (66 T-54B at 1995), Afghanistan, Bangladesh (T-54 / 55, “59”), Bulgaria (T- 54,1145 T-55 at 1991), Bosnia and Herzegovina (T-55), Hungary (T-54, 1139 T-55 at 1991), Vietnam, Guinea (8 T-54 at 1992), GDR (T-54, 1725 T-55 on 1991), Egypt, Zaire (16 “59” on 1995), Zambia (16 “59” on 1995), Israel (captured Egyptian), India (500 T-55), Iraq, Iran, Yemen, Cambodia, China (59, 69 of various modifications), Congo (T-54), Cuba, Lebanon, Libya (100 T-54 on 1975, T- 55), Mauritania (T-54), Myanmar (100 "69-II" on 1995), Mozambique, Mongolia, Pakistan (1200 “59”, 250 “69-II”, 51 T-55 at 1995), Peru (near 300 T-54 / 55), Poland (T-54, 2093 T-55 at 1991 .), Romania (T-54, 1786 T-55 including the Romanian versions TR-85 and TR-580 for 1991), North Korea, Syria, Somalia, Sudan (70 T-54 for 1979), Thailand ( 24 “59” and 110 “69-II” at 1995), Tanzania (26 “59” at 1995), Togo, Uganda, Finland (12 T-54 at 1959, 70 T-55 at 1995 .), Croatia, the Central African Republic, Czechoslovakia (T-54, 1927 T-55 at 1991), Ethiopia, Yugoslavia (T-54Б, T-55AM).
    3. Den717
      Den717 17 February 2019 09: 15
      0
      Quote: JonnyT
      only here's the commercial benefit from this project, unfortunately no .... and it does not matter that this machine will help save the lives of soldiers ... the main thing is that there is no money ..... unfortunately this is a "stillborn child"

      Interesting! The enemy is going, in any case, voicing plans, to go to conquer our Kuban, and you regret that they have something inanimate in the defense industry is born? I’m sorry, who will you be? For Bandera or for us?
  9. Eugeniy_369
    Eugeniy_369 7 November 2013 10: 21
    +4
    It looks like a BMP-2 wink ... The idea is good, but what about the chassis, I read that there were problems with it, I'm not an expert in this, if there are specialists, correct it. In general, such a technique is needed, the BMP-1,2,3, XNUMX, XNUMX will never be equal in booking with a tank, no matter what they are hung on. You can refer to the "Sons of Israel" as you like, but their achievements in preserving, saving l / s cannot be denied, and the probable enemy on this issue began to stir what . It’s high time for our strategists to think about the life of a soldier, and not about the cost of equipment. I don’t know who said it or came up with - “We need to save the equipment, and the women will give birth to new women,” but I think we need to stop giving reasons to confirm this phrase.
    And for the pictures +++ good . Only the bottom view is not enough)))))
    1. Argon
      Argon 7 November 2013 11: 17
      0
      And someone else said that - "with good intentions, the road to hell is laid out" - but you never wondered why the BMPs were originally developed on the basis of their own chassis, much less expensive, more mobile. So it turns out that the best protection of soldiers is not armor, but the literacy of the commanders, and nothing can be done about it. And the Israeli experience only confirms my words, since the basis for the survival of heavy armored personnel carriers is not their booking, but tactical uselessness (with such a weapon). The enemy simply does not plan forces for their destruction, because they do not conduct active hostilities. Regarding the Russian Armed Forces, we can say that until they decide on the concept of using heavy infantry fighting vehicles (and there is still no understanding of it), the products on the Armata platform will not be numerous. Look, the most promising are the samples with the placement of the troop compartment between the combat and the MTO. There are such prototypes in Russia and in Kharkovites. And in fact, I liked this article, but it seems to me that remodeling is more expensive than building a new one.
      1. Eugeniy_369
        Eugeniy_369 7 November 2013 13: 18
        +5
        Quote: Argon
        why initially BMPs developed on the basis of their own chassis, much less expensive, more mobile.

        The keywords are "less expensive". And the tank, as I understand it, is less mobile (I don't raise the issue of landing) than the BMP? Was the OPVT on the tank attached for fun? I'm sorry I did not understand the meaning of your post. Performance characteristics of tanks and infantry fighting vehicles compare with regards to maneuverability, thrust-to-weight ratio, dynamics. maximum speed.
        Quote: Argon
        a soldier is not armor, but the literacy of commanders
        I do not argue with this, it’s only interesting what the soldiers would tell you in Afghanistan, during the CTO in the Chechen Republic, etc. Would you suggest that they don’t whine about the leaky infantry fighting vehicles, armored personnel carriers and find competent commanders?
        Quote: Argon
        And someone else said that "with good intentions, the road to hell is paved"

        And this is what? Or is it a crime to save soldiers and officers?
        Sarcasm is somehow off topic.
        1. Argon
          Argon 7 November 2013 16: 39
          +2
          The key expression is not "less expensive", but "more mobile". There is such a term, operational-tactical maneuverability - in a nutshell, it should be understood so that infantry fighting vehicles get to the initial lines faster than tanks because their performance on OTM is higher (and do not bother with the rest of the performance characteristics, the key point is the mass). By the way, the cost is also not an unimportant thing, if you only imagine that we would not have a single infantry fighting vehicle and armored personnel carrier in Chechnya, do not you really think that you would go on tanks, not rather on "Gan trucks "(establish a causal relationship yourself?). Regarding the" snot "," printed hysterics "and the leaky BMP, armored personnel carrier: consider the example of the Consolidated Maikop brigade for each BT unit, there were on average SEVEN submissions of vehicles (mainly RPG-7, RPG- 18) moreover, the machines achieved either until stable signs of combustion appeared, or before the ammo detonation, and the total saturation was up to the 21st shot of vehicles per unit of BT. I mean, if the brigade had cars similar to those shown, the result would hardly be different, well, they would beat their hours are 4-5 more. But there are many questions about the tactics of using lightly armored vehicles in the city, and also about the strategy. And about the quotes, it is not a crime to save the lives of soldiers, but only by what means? You can build such "masterpieces", but such machines will not be widespread and AVAILABLE.
          1. Eugeniy_369
            Eugeniy_369 7 November 2013 17: 25
            +3
            Quote: Argon
            There is such a term, operational tactical maneuverability

            So to say, within the framework of their self-education, the question is, where is this term used and who said that BMPs will come out to the original tanks before?
            Quote: Argon
            key moment mass

            35 tons versus 20, of course, the difference is more than 40%, but compared to the t-90 (46,5 tons - 57%) it’s not so categorical, and, together with the same power of the BMPV-64, I consider only you laughing(rummaged the entire Internet) BMP-3 will not yield to the term OTM.
            Quote: Argon
            Regarding the "snot", "printed hysterics" and the leaky BMP, armored personnel carrier: consider the example of the Consolidated Maikop brigade

            You have chosen an unsuccessful example, when BM will be shot from all sides, no armor will save, then I will refer you to your post above about armor and competent commanders, I think the hint is clear? But to compare the effects of a single hit of RPG grenades, ATGM rockets, KPFT lines on the BMP, BTR and the T-64, T-72 tank, etc. It would be interesting.
            Quote: Argon
            . Cost, by the way, is also an important thing.
            This is the main thing in the introduction of heavy infantry fighting vehicles. Motorized riflemen, motorized infantry and go in the army more than tank units.
            Quote: Argon
            It is possible to build such "masterpieces" but such machines will not be widespread and AVAILABLE when they will not.

            It may not be a masterpiece, but I do not think I have earned the quotation marks.
            Let them not be massive, but at least motorized rifles attached to tank units can have such vehicles.
          2. Lopatov
            Lopatov 7 November 2013 17: 48
            0
            Quote: Argon
            Let us consider the example of the Maykop Consolidated Brigade for each BT unit there were on average SEVEN hits of weapons (mainly RPG-7, RPG-18), and the machines achieved either stable signs of combustion or detonation of the ammunition, and the total saturation was up to the 21st shot of vehicles BT unit.

            Combined battalion of the Maykop brigade. You said everything correctly, but you forgot one nuance that completely flips your statistics.
            The fact is that most of the wrecked cars were without crews, and without BC.
            1. Eugeniy_369
              Eugeniy_369 7 November 2013 21: 59
              +4
              Quote: Spade
              The fact is that most of the wrecked cars were without crews, and without BC.

              This is, so to speak, "control .... laughing BM without a crew will not give up and will not run away. The example itself for assessing the resistance of infantry fighting vehicles, armored personnel carriers against weapons is incorrect in principle. Here it is necessary to give a turnip to the one who drove the armored vehicles into the city without the support of infantry.
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 7 November 2013 22: 28
                +1
                They are just out of luck. They were allowed into the city unhindered. And our regiment, judging by the stories of those who were present, began to smoke immediately at the entrance. And only the actions of the regiment commander, who stopped the panic, allowed to pull the convoy out of the fire bag. Several cars lost.

                I personally consider the decision to hide behind the armor of cars with spent BC as the right one. Although I heard that the Maykop commanders were accused of this. Most likely those who did not get so stuck.
            2. Argon
              Argon 7 November 2013 23: 45
              -1
              And so on points; due to the fact that a tank attack, according to the charter, should start from a line secured (captured) by infantry, and the infantry rides on an infantry fighting vehicle. As for the terms, it is not used, but taken into account, when planning any serious operation of the security forces. qualifications within the framework of the commentary explain to you the meaning of such a term (there is also operational and strategic maneuverability) .As an example: how long it will take for a motorized infantry regiment to overcome a water barrier up to 3 meters deep and up to 500 meters long, the answer is forced on the move, and a tank regiment using OPVT-only engineering reconnaissance / support will take from 4 hours. Note that the Internet is a simulation of the information field, a place for chatter and rumors, and there is not much here, which is the basis of reality, life taught me that- "book -source of knowledge "-. Try to consider the reasons for not adopting the BMPT" Terminator "low OTM-was called one of the main reasons. put in the article with the BMP-3, I consider it at least frivolous. Consider at least the complex of weapons against the background of the general MGH. Why did you decide that the example is not a good one, both Chechen companies are just characteristic of the fact that the equipment going in the convoy was immobilized (made maneuvers) in the narrowness of a lanshavta or urban development and shot with high-density crossfire. (in a separate post, give what is the CPFT, please ??? laughing ) Let's consider only RPGs and ATGMs. Both means can test armor of both a tank and BMP-3 (well, since you have chosen it as an example), despite a rather different level of reservation, this shows that the ways to increase security are not at all in the direction of increasing the mass of armor \ cumulative obstacles. These are the quotes that deserve these models, since when they become prototypes, their mass will exceed 50 tons (with a level of protection comparable to MBT, and even equilateral) with all the consequences, and operational firing module w I don’t believe in brown and yellow, either in the compartment or in the CVC. I’m sorry, I don’t want to enter into a dispute. First there weren’t wrecked there, only destroyed, and secondly, he obviously believes that she’s in the city of Grozny carried on hands, with a salute.
              1. Tommygun
                Tommygun 8 November 2013 02: 21
                +2
                Not MSP will cross, but three MSB. Without tanks and air defense. And what will they do there for 4 hours? Then they go and leave the rest without cover? As a result, we have tanks on one side without infantry, on the other BMP without tanks and air defense.
      2. Hug
        Hug 7 November 2013 22: 22
        +1
        If I am not mistaken, then when designing the "Merkava" the principle was also taken into account: "To move quickly on the battlefield (which means under the fire of the PTS) does not mean to drive quickly" So draw conclusions.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 7 November 2013 22: 47
          0
          We are talking about other things - the transfer of units to fairly large distances. However, only wheeled armored personnel carriers have an advantage here, tracked infantry fighting vehicles in this regard are no better than a tank-based TBTR
  10. major071
    major071 7 November 2013 10: 26
    +4
    On the basis of these vehicles, it is possible to develop a redistribution of tanks in infantry fighting vehicles, if now it is futile, then in the future it may be needed.
  11. PROXOR
    PROXOR 7 November 2013 10: 49
    +3
    Well, something similar is necessary for our guys so that they would stop riding armored. Fuck that he does not swim.
  12. Walking
    Walking 7 November 2013 10: 50
    +4
    Something is not noticeable that based on the T-64, for me it is almost a new machine. Such a redesign is like a new tank.
    1. Akim
      Akim 7 November 2013 10: 56
      +7
      Quote: Hiking
      Such a redesign is like a new tank.


      No. Overcooking the hull is 4 times cheaper than manufacturing the hull for the BTR-3E1.
      1. svp67
        svp67 7 November 2013 11: 18
        +3
        Quote: Akim
        No. Overcooking the hull is 4 times cheaper than manufacturing the hull for the BTR-3E1.

        In "4-re"? It's very doubtful ...
        1. Akim
          Akim 7 November 2013 11: 27
          +3
          Quote: svp67
          In "4-re"? It's very doubtful ...

          There were video interviews about her. There, the engineer said that the manufacture of the hull costs 100 thousand hryvnias, and the manufacture of the BMP-3 hull costs about 400 thousand.
          1. Walking
            Walking 7 November 2013 11: 34
            +2
            First, the tank must be disassembled, cut, then re-weld, put new appliances, weapons, and all this is 4 times cheaper?
            1. Akim
              Akim 7 November 2013 11: 41
              +1
              Quote: Hiking
              put new devices, weapons and all this 4 times cheaper?

              I said only making the hull. Sale price of the BTR-3E1 with the Shkval module for Thais 1 million 50 thousand dead American presidents
          2. Akim
            Akim 7 November 2013 11: 52
            +3
            Quote: Akim
            and the manufacture of the BMP-3 case is about 400 thousand.

            Read the BTR-3. I am a hat.
            1. svp67
              svp67 7 November 2013 12: 50
              +2
              Quote: Akim
              Read the BTR-3. I am a hat.

              Well, for example, I don’t think so, everything happens ...
          3. In the reeds
            In the reeds 7 November 2013 14: 20
            +5
            It is very individual in each case. We came to the conclusion that Carrot-1 is more expensive to remake in Namer than to be done from scratch on the 4th base and they are just massively put into reserve
  13. _KM_
    _KM_ 7 November 2013 11: 02
    +5
    Great stuff, great photos.

    Such a machine would be in the Russian army.
    1. Evgeny_Lev
      Evgeny_Lev 7 November 2013 16: 46
      0
      No, leave this good to yourself.
  14. Evgeny_Lev
    Evgeny_Lev 7 November 2013 11: 17
    +6
    The hatch cover of the mecha on one of the photos, clearly not a tank one. A double-barreled machine gun with a coaxial "flame" not on a remote turret, apparently, but on a "gun carriage" under the DShK. The hole to the right of the mechanic, shows the metal thickness at the level of 50 mm.
    It is not clear how the nutrition of the AGS will occur?
    What is the trunk in the spark with 2A42?

    Stitches, yeah.

    ps Maybe it would be more correct to call it not a "model" and not a "prototype", but a concept? If you approach it this way, it is completely understandable why they still do not exist. Because, like even me, a simple mechanic, a bunch of inconsistencies are visible, which in general makes an impression on me, not better than from the tanks in the "Inhabited Island" of St. Bondarchuk LOL
    1. Tyumen
      Tyumen 8 November 2013 07: 09
      +1
      It also seemed to me that they hurried to show, even the welds were not cleaned,
      paint lies on drops of metal. In general, I liked it.
  15. Lesnik
    Lesnik 7 November 2013 11: 18
    +2
    As I understand it, these are all concepts. But worthy, still work and work on them,
    good day Akim has 2 questions if the topic: wink
    1) What kind of machine gun spark on the BMPV-64;
    2) How the aft sunroof closes repeat
    1. Akim
      Akim 7 November 2013 11: 32
      +2
      Quote: Forestman
      What kind of machine gun spark on the BMPV-64;

      As for the first answer. This is a 23-mm machine guns in an independent module, as in the T-64E, T-72E tanks.
  16. svp67
    svp67 7 November 2013 11: 24
    +2
    BMP-K-64
    For such a car, the turn "on the tank" - how many wheels are enough?
    1. Akim
      Akim 7 November 2013 11: 45
      +2
      Quote: svp67
      "on the tank" - how many wheels are enough?

      She dashed off a lot (several thousand km.). And take into account this military equipment, which has a small annual operational mileage, so that it is not transferred to the category of "combat training".
      1. svp67
        svp67 7 November 2013 12: 05
        0
        Quote: Akim
        She dashed off a lot (several thousand km.).

        And how many wheels did they change, didn’t they tell?
        1. Akim
          Akim 7 November 2013 12: 16
          +5
          Quote: svp67
          And how many wheels did they change, didn’t they tell?

          That's what is not there is not. Only turning the wheel drive is not Ukrainian know-how, but Soviet, which the Americans are successfully exploiting.
          Mustang 2076
          1. svp67
            svp67 7 November 2013 12: 53
            +1
            Quote: Akim
            Quote: svp67
            And how many wheels did they change, didn’t they tell?

            That's what is not there is not. Only turning the wheel drive is not Ukrainian know-how, but Soviet, which the Americans are successfully exploiting.
            Mustang 2076

            At this loader, they are solid and then the front ones, those that go where the main load goes, erase much faster than the rear ones. And then a considerable mass and ordinary BTR-ovskie wheels. Special needs to be created ...
            1. Akim
              Akim 7 November 2013 13: 13
              +3
              Quote: svp67
              And then a considerable mass and ordinary BTR-ovskie wheels. Special needs to be created ...

              And 4 pairs. And the diameter. We don’t know everything. One can only guess. This summer he wasn’t rolled out for a presentation, so there are problems with him.
              Here is a Russian car. Here, electric motors, and in Ukrainian more powerful (and more complex) hydraulic motors.
              1. Bad_gr
                Bad_gr 7 November 2013 21: 16
                0
                Quote: Akim
                Here is a Russian car. Here, electric motors, and in Ukrainian more powerful (and more complex) hydraulic motors.
                The example is not successful, since turning on a tank on this armored personnel carrier (as well as on the BTR-90) is like a bonus (it can, but it is used very rarely), and the main form of changing the direction of the armored personnel carrier is turning the front 4 wheels as on BTR60-70-80.
                1. Akim
                  Akim 7 November 2013 22: 10
                  +1
                  Quote: Bad_gr
                  The example is not successful, since turning on a tank on this armored personnel carrier (as well as on the armored personnel carrier-90) is like a bonus

                  And I did not spend 100% identity. Was in the USSR a project or an armored personnel carrier. or a carrier chassis that was also controlled.
          2. Avenger711
            Avenger711 7 November 2013 15: 54
            0
            When I first saw such a loader in work with a turn on the tank, I was very surprised, although for such a machine this is a logical decision. But how logical is it for high-speed and heavier cars.
  17. Tommygun
    Tommygun 7 November 2013 11: 42
    +1
    The idea is good. The base is not.
    As far as I understood from numerous tank eschera:
    T-64 is better at fire capabilities. T-72 for running and operating costs.
    Plus the huge T-72 park in the world. In Russia, a lot of T-72 in storage.
    The price of modernization is probably several times lower than the manufacture of a new device.
    Regarding the floating infantry fighting vehicles, the armored personnel carrier already wrote - in the Airborne Forces, MP and reconnaissance. Motorized rifle without tanks to sail to anything.
    1. Alekseev
      Alekseev 7 November 2013 12: 52
      +4
      Quote: Tommygun
      As far as I understood from numerous tank eschera:

      You still don’t understand ...
      On the T-64 (80), a more expensive and advanced SLA was used, which of the monetary considerations was not put on the T-72, conceived as an export and mobilization option. Now a similar 64th is put on the T-90, which equalizes the firing capabilities of these machines.
      But about the price of modernization and the new apparatus, and especially the quality, without being very thoroughly devoted to the production and testing process, nothing can be said.
      1. Tommygun
        Tommygun 7 November 2013 13: 08
        0
        "On the T-64 (80), a more expensive and perfect MSA was used, which, for financial reasons, was not installed on the T-72, conceived as an export and mobilization option"
        This is exactly what I meant by the fire capabilities so as not to go into details.
        But the idea is this: if the task is, for example, installing a tank tower on a wheeled or marine chassis, it is better to take a tower from the T-64. And here you need a chassis, a cat. better at T-72.
        1. rolik2
          rolik2 7 November 2013 14: 56
          +7
          And here you need a chassis, a cat. better with the T-72.

          It was made for the Ukrainian army where the T-64 is the main tank, while they also thought about unification, so that the rear crews would have less problems with the range of spare parts and fuel, but you know this is not superfluous.

          There is an option with the T-55, I think if the T-72 was at hand then I would have done it, I don’t see the difficulty.
          1. Tommygun
            Tommygun 7 November 2013 17: 41
            +1
            I think that in Kharkov they think more about the foreign market, where the T-64 chassis has no chance of success, since there is nothing to unify with
        2. Alekseev
          Alekseev 7 November 2013 17: 09
          +1
          Quote: Tommygun
          But the idea is this: if the task is, for example, installing a tank tower on a wheeled or marine chassis, it is better to take a tower from the T-64. And here you need a chassis, a cat. better at T-72.

          MSA - this is all on the tower.
          This is a set of "boxes" - devices, components and assemblies, cables, etc.
          It can be in any tower, and they, by the way, are very similar to the T-64 and T-72.
          But if you compare AZ and MZ, then they are different. Electromechanical AZ is simpler, cheaper, more reliable, but has a lower capacity (22 a / v). In the electrohydromechanical MZ there are more shells (28), but the hydraulics are not good, in case of damage to the main lines (combat, in peacetime I have not seen this), a fire and explosion hazardous oil mist can form, "long" new BOPS cannot be placed, the feed lever is often yes ), the fired pallet is not thrown away, but chad in BO.
          And what about the heavy armored personnel carrier based on the T-64, then the highlight is different. This chassis has its drawbacks, which I do not dwell on, because they are well known to everyone, but on the T-72 it is impossible to digest the body back to front in a relatively simple way. And the 5TDF engine, although a mediocre engine in operation, is very compact, "suitcase", it is much easier to install it than a V-2 diesel engine.
  18. RUSS
    RUSS 7 November 2013 11: 57
    0
    The Israelis have something similar, and they and the Ukrainians turned out to be a good protected armored personnel carrier, but it’s heavy, does not swim and is too big in size.
    1. recrut6666
      recrut6666 7 November 2013 18: 55
      +4
      yes it’s better to be well protected than well floating !!!!
      1. Alekseev
        Alekseev 7 November 2013 20: 11
        +7
        Quote: recrut6666
        better to be well protected than well floating !!!!

        They have written here many, many times that it is best to correspond to the task for which this BTT was created.
        And the thought that in a heavy armored personnel carrier you can "sit out", like in a tank from the series "Iron Kaput" is initially degenerate in essence. One of the "men of Israel" who often appears on this site, despite the fact that many of his judgments are not controversial, quite correctly noted that there are no impenetrable tanks (and armored personnel carriers), only fools are impenetrable. Sometimes it is a maneuver, the ability to overcome a water barrier (occurs on average after 25 km in the Central European theater of operations) on the move and is the most successful way to save materiel and l / s. But when breaking through a strong defense, storming cities and URs, heavy vehicles with slightly different weapons are also needed.
        All professions are important, all professions are needed! yes
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 7 November 2013 22: 30
          0
          Quote: Alekseev
          Sometimes it’s a maneuver, the ability to overcome a water barrier

          But should tank-based vehicles have a problem with this?
          1. Alekseev
            Alekseev 8 November 2013 13: 27
            +1
            Quote: Spade
            But should tank-based vehicles have a problem with this?

            Yes. yes Both OPVT and the Brod system are not a panacea. It is necessary to prepare the route, do reconnaissance of the bottom, and as soon as the 50-ton "hippopotamus" gets stuck, you will rake in the chain hoists to unfold, if there are any, of course.
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 8 November 2013 13: 38
              +3
              Are you sure that floating equipment is able to overcome a water barrier anywhere?
  19. tchoni
    tchoni 7 November 2013 12: 02
    -2
    I agree with the last comment. But, as an experiment, one battalion can be equipped with what it is (it can also be purchased from Ukrainians) as an experimental operation. Then, you look and in questions of the order and application of ARMATO you look that will be lighted up.
  20. tchoni
    tchoni 7 November 2013 12: 02
    0
    I agree with the last comment. But, as an experiment, one battalion can be equipped with what it is (it can also be purchased from Ukrainians) as an experimental operation. Then, you look and in questions of the order and application of ARMATO you look that will be lighted up.
    1. Evgeny_Lev
      Evgeny_Lev 7 November 2013 16: 16
      +1
      What to buy?
      Layouts made in the circle "We think that skillful hands"?

      Excuse me, in your mind?
      1. tchoni
        tchoni 8 November 2013 10: 05
        0
        at least layouts. That's the trial operation. It's just that in the RF Armed Forces there is no experience in operating such things as such. After all, it is not enough to saturate the troops with heavy armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles - you must excuse me, prepare a bunch of instructions on repair, use, transportation, storage, maintenance, etc. etc.
        Just understanding how to use such devices and where is the thing.

        Do not want to buy Ukrainian - please, it seems that the uralvagonzavod did something on the basis of the t-55. and do not need much - 30 pieces are enough for trial operation.
        or even simpler - the Israeli Ahzarites just write off. (Hochma)
        Or it’s really cool to form a battle between Jews - volunteers-patriots of Russia and send them to serve in the tsahal with their subsequent return (Hochma)
        1. Bad_gr
          Bad_gr 8 November 2013 18: 20
          -1
          Quote: tchoni
          That's the trial operation. It's just that in the RF Armed Forces there is no experience in operating such things as such.

          BMO-T (combat vehicle flamethrowers - heavy)
          1. tchoni
            tchoni 9 November 2013 11: 01
            0
            I'm not a bit about that.
            There is no experience of "exploitation" (too lazy to look for another term) of an infantry unit armed with heavy armored personnel carriers.
            at least I have not heard of him.
            This is not so much about the technical side of the matter, but about the structure, staff of charters, manuals, etc., for such a unit.

            For example, the question is: does such a battalion need tanks? how much? Or maybe it’s easier to give an infantry company in the TBTR a tank battalion?
            here such questions should be answered by trial operation.

            And if you are too lazy to buy from Ukrainians, then you can remake BMO-T in TBTR.
            1. Akim
              Akim 9 November 2013 13: 30
              0
              Quote: tchoni
              For example, the question is: does such a battalion need tanks? how much? Or maybe it’s easier to give an infantry company in the TBTR a tank battalion?

              For me, so in a tank brigade you need to make a motorized rifle / mechanized battalion of 4 companies (3 heavy infantry fighting vehicles + 1 light infantry fighting vehicles) and add a MOS battery to the ADG. But I didn’t finish academies or adjuncturies.
  21. badger1974
    badger1974 7 November 2013 12: 38
    +2
    I don’t know, I would call it “the convulsions of the Ukrainian tank industry”, I in no way want to offend those on whom it is held, these are true patriots, I myself wanted to be in the KhTZ design bureau in the 90s, but you know the turns of life, let's still carry out the statistics, after all, the numbers cannot be fooled, and so what is needed for a full-fledged BMP, security, mobility, and most importantly, in light of financial difficulties, the relative linkage to civilian nodes (engine, transmission, etc.), and that the BMPV-64 turns out, mediocre booking, in comparison with the BMP-3, the weapon module can be any according to the customer, but with mobility it is very tight, in European conditions, you have to carry a panton park with you. But it is the BMP that is entrusted with the task of seizing the bridgeheads, "everyone knows the power of 64 engines, if you add a small motor resource, it turns out, you can sell it to the Arabian shahs, there are no rivers, there will be enough dough for the maintenance, but how to take the real PEX on weapons - you have to be a complete idiot so as not to see the obvious
    1. Tommygun
      Tommygun 7 November 2013 13: 56
      +1
      I fundamentally disagree with you.
      Snap to citizen. nodes - rather for an armored personnel carrier (read lightly armored bus).
      "mediocre booking, in comparison with the BMP-3" - generally incomprehensible. Are you saying that the MBT-based vehicle is worse armored than the BMP-3?
      “Infantry fighting vehicle (BMP) - an armored vehicle of motorized rifle troops (motorized infantry), designed to move personnel and conduct combat. BMP makes motorized infantry necessary in modern conditions security (from WMD and conventional weapons) and maneuverability, enhances firepower and allows work closely with tanks. Motorized infantry units equipped with infantry fighting vehicles can act in battle together with tanks, in a single armored battle formation, and when necessary, dismount. BMP supports the actions of motorized rifles with its fire. At the same time, the BMP is assigned tasks such as the destruction of enemy manpower, the defeat of lightly armored vehicles, the fight against low-flying air targets and, if necessary, with enemy tanks. In addition, BMP units are used to carry out final actions in battle - the destruction of the remnants of enemy troops and the seizure of territory. The combination of actions of tanks and infantry fighting vehicles significantly expands the capabilities of combined arms units. " [SVE, T.1, Military Publishing, M., 1990, p. 427]
      And nothing about water barriers. She will hold this bridgehead for a long time, if it can even be destroyed from a machine gun.
      1. badger1974
        badger1974 7 November 2013 17: 16
        0
        mind-expanding capabilities, and the motorized rifle division itself is capable of solving combat missions, without linking tank units and army aviation, and in the case of ala 64, the pontoon fleet will stupidly wait with tanks and any other non-naval equipment, please do not bring me military unit 1990- of the year, this muck was scooped up in 1994 in the battles for the formidable, both in Afghanistan and in Chechnya Betra and Pekhi (to a lesser extent) were famously quoted, don’t tell
        1. Tommygun
          Tommygun 7 November 2013 17: 30
          -1
          Are there no tanks in the MSD?
          In 1994 they raked precisely because they had stolen all the past experience.
          "Betra and Pehi were famously quoted" please explain by whom, where, in the quality of what and in comparison with what?
          1. badger1974
            badger1974 8 November 2013 01: 18
            0
            cousin, internationalist warrior 1984-1986, enough?
            1. Tommygun
              Tommygun 8 November 2013 01: 46
              0
              Respect to him, but this is the answer to only one question out of four
              1. badger1974
                badger1974 8 November 2013 09: 38
                0
                and what actually needs to be answered? I think that the case was confirmed by the same Jew Ariel Sharon, who, as part of 7 PT-76s, decided the outcome of the Doomsday War in 1973, a vivid example of the possibility of mobility of floating ammunition, a case that went down in history, but from the 64th case will be deplorable
                1. Tommygun
                  Tommygun 8 November 2013 11: 04
                  +1
                  And in due time 300 Spartans held back the huge army of Xerxes for several days, largely due to the presence of armor and a large shield.
                  A vivid example of the possibilities of better security.

                  I do not urge to completely abandon the floating technique. There are Airborne Forces, MPs, in each SME there is a reconnaissance company. They need such a technique. But I consider it inexpedient to sacrifice the security of the main force for this.
                2. In the reeds
                  In the reeds 8 November 2013 14: 28
                  0
                  Sorry, floating like an ax. Technique crossed to the west coast along the pantons induced by the Egyptians and forgotten to destroy them ...
        2. sapran
          sapran 7 November 2013 18: 04
          -2
          .. you say pontoons? Hm. up to 2 meters we boldly wade ford without preparation up to 5 meters with an ATW so it will suit you? Attempts to make a tachanka-Rostovanka out of an infantry fighting vehicle leads to the commemoration of the l / s and the father of the commander. (generally bad words). I already thought that Chapaevtsi had transferred - and how it was wrong how ...
          1. badger1974
            badger1974 8 November 2013 01: 06
            0
            you prepare the equipment for the OPVT, they will forget you what to call, the mat wanted to say, but here you can’t
    2. sapran
      sapran 7 November 2013 17: 35
      +1
      Interesting thoughts ...
      1 There are infantry fighting vehicles 1,2, 3 from the legislators of the genre (they seem to swim, some jump like toads, they really help the transported infantry in the rain and hail, they can't stand the hardships and deprivations of "partisan" everyday life with a lustful desire to put something in a rut or next to the roadside) The crew + infantry of the latter, in the absence of rain, prefers to sit on top (more comfortable), that is, a dash to the line of dismounting of the infantry is questionable, as is the functioning of the latter ... and most importantly, in the light of the last "terminators", the BMP tanks are not covered well ...
      2. there are a lot of cheap (and not so) varieties of armored personnel carriers on wheels now in the era of crisis they are in trend (infantry tinkering more comfortably) though with patency in some places and hard) but you can shove anything you like on wheels (especially if you are going to drive the Zulus)
      3. type is very rare, extremely expensive, highly specialized tracked heavily armored armored personnel carrier (BMPV), is in service with special forces (engineering troops) habitat zone of saturation of anti-tank vehicles above average with limited viewing and a lot of "construction waste" is full of people with a perverse sense of sadism and pyrotechnics. The population is limited but extremely tenacious, because when they shoot, and then you want to eat, this population is forgiven for the high cost and slowness and severity in everyday use.
      in general a little irony but everything seems to be simple and intelligible ...
  22. desiscia
    desiscia 7 November 2013 12: 48
    -1
    Good armored personnel carrier.
  23. ramin_serg
    ramin_serg 7 November 2013 13: 32
    +2
    Good morning everyone. I think that than sending old tanks for nails, it’s better to make BMPs out of them. Israel has been using this practice for a long time, and as far as I know, only positive reviews.
  24. kafa
    kafa 7 November 2013 13: 58
    +3
    I will say my opinion looks reasonable not like a "duplicator" ((a terminator (two barrels, two AGS and a tipo ATGM) is a grenade launcher's dream)
  25. Tommygun
    Tommygun 7 November 2013 14: 09
    +4
    Regarding the terminator, I believe that the problem with armored vehicles is not the lack of weapons, but blindness. So what is needed is not a batmobile (10 machine guns, 5 grenade launchers ...), but a search and target recognition system with the transfer of target designation to other machines.
  26. Tommygun
    Tommygun 7 November 2013 14: 22
    +3
    Terminator
    1. Kars
      Kars 7 November 2013 14: 27
      +3
      I quite like this sketch.
      1. Akim
        Akim 7 November 2013 14: 32
        +2
        Quote: Kars
        I quite like this sketch.

        Still, someone, like me, believes that the 37 mm gun is better. In general, I would transfer all of our BMPs to a 37x155 shell.
        2A11 anti-aircraft gun 37x199. Brute force.
        1. Kars
          Kars 7 November 2013 14: 37
          +3
          Quote: Akim
          I would generally transfer all of our infantry fighting vehicles to the 37x155 shell

          Dreams. Dreams - I personally am for 45 mm. That would not be trifling. And I need a mandatory obtsion under 40 mm bofors, with it I think there is more chance of selling.
          1. Akim
            Akim 7 November 2013 14: 43
            +3
            Quote: Kars
            Dreams. Dreams - I personally am for 45 mm. That would not be trifling

            I don’t know the 2A111 gun, but I know 2A42 very well. I think making 37 graph paper on its base is not worth the extra effort. But it will fit perfectly into the dimensions of all existing towers and modules. Ammunition truth will decrease but not much.
            1. Kars
              Kars 7 November 2013 14: 49
              +3
              Quote: Akim
              I do not know gun 2A111

              So do I.
              I am impressed by this.
              http://gurkhan.blogspot.com/2012/08/45.html
              Quote: Akim
              all existing towers and modules.

              need to think about the future.
              1. Akim
                Akim 7 November 2013 15: 00
                +2
                Quote: Kars
                need to think about the future.

                We must think about reality. The 37 mm BOPS is capable of hitting all BMPs of its western neighbors. But we still won’t quickly switch to new armored vehicles.
                1. Kars
                  Kars 7 November 2013 15: 04
                  +1
                  Quote: Akim
                  37 mm BOPS capable of hitting all BMPs of its western neighbors

                  and what 30 mm does not strike?
                  Quote: Akim
                  But we still won’t quickly switch to new armored vehicles.

                  We won’t get the modernized one either. When did you get the last Damask steel?

                  And by prospects, I mean the foreign market.
                  1. Akim
                    Akim 7 November 2013 15: 10
                    +3
                    Quote: Kars
                    And by prospects, I mean the foreign market.

                    Foreign market - mule them. As for 30x165. BOPS from him will be able to break and Puma and Anders. Just not easier to create a new shell under the 37 mm? To have a margin of safety. In addition, the fragmentation fragment weighs 1,5 times more than its 30 mm counterpart.
                    1. Kars
                      Kars 7 November 2013 15: 16
                      +1
                      Quote: Akim
                      Foreign market - mule them

                      You can’t be so greedy. Let them fight normal weapons in Africa too.
                      Quote: Akim
                      Just not easier to create a new shell under the 37 mm?

                      maybe it’s easier, I’m not up to date. Just until I saw the re-established BMP-2 and the combat module. At the same time, I would be interested to know how much the license for the Swedish boofers costs - there is an excellent set of ammunition. On the foreign market in special advertising no need
                      1. Akim
                        Akim 7 November 2013 15: 23
                        +1
                        Quote: Kars
                        how much is the license for the Swedish beaufors - there is an excellent set of ammunition

                        Andrew. why do we need it. Healthy as Valuev repeat . There is no tape power, only a clip. The nomenclature is really wide, but who will use it with us? The clips are yes. And in our two-tape food we need only fragmentation and armor-piercing.
                      2. Kars
                        Kars 7 November 2013 15: 37
                        +1
                        Quote: Akim
                        why do we need him

                        He does not shine for us. Unfortunately.

                        about healthy, but not small.


                        I don’t particularly believe in the defense order of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine. It would be nice to carry out major repairs, and the survival of factories and design bureaus is an external market.
                      3. Akim
                        Akim 7 November 2013 16: 13
                        0
                        Quote: Kars
                        Unfortunately.

                        Why?
                      4. Kars
                        Kars 7 November 2013 21: 52
                        +1
                        Quote: Akim
                        Why?

                        Very, very good trunk. Better than the current 30 mm.
  27. Tommygun
    Tommygun 7 November 2013 15: 11
    -1
    37mm is better in the first place, since there are normal OFSs in this caliber.
  28. ka5280
    ka5280 7 November 2013 17: 22
    0
    It is all about the weight of the gun and the momentum of its recoil. 2A42 has 7 tons of recoil.
    1. Akim
      Akim 7 November 2013 17: 34
      0
      Quote: ka5280
      2A42 has 7 tons of recoil.

      Not seven, but about five. Why does this number 7 appear so often? how would the Mi-28 shoot then? But it doesn’t matter.
      37-mm air guns were installed on lighter aircraft.
      It’s just that earlier there was no need to increase the caliber 2A42. Now she is.
  29. sapran
    sapran 7 November 2013 17: 53
    0
    At one time, the question was raised about 45-mm marine automatic cannons (they were in warehouses in a fairly marketable form and quantity), since the latter will make it possible to make a reliable radio fuse without a significant loss of the projectile's power), since in my opinion it is not worth reinventing the wheel with regards to the art system. Another thing ammunition is subject to creative development. take the proposed option with 57 mm "non-kosher" since the queue is limited to 1-3 projectiles overheating, the number of decel balistic projectiles is excessive ...
  • Kars
    Kars 7 November 2013 14: 28
    +1
    And for an increase in the crew and the number of trunks for a long time thought.
    1. svp67
      svp67 8 November 2013 14: 13
      +1
      Quote: Kars
      And for an increase in the crew and the number of trunks for a long time thought.
      1. Kars
        Kars 8 November 2013 14: 16
        +2
        Quote: svp67


        Photoshop is not considered.
  • Strashila
    Strashila 7 November 2013 14: 38
    +3
    The correct decisions are also interesting, given the number of tanks after the collapse of the USSR ... yes, for the next 10 years, production can be loaded ... the quality / price ratio will be just sweet.
  • Avenger711
    Avenger711 7 November 2013 15: 00
    0
    Stop raping a corpse, T-64 last year went for scrap. It is impossible to build anything worthwhile on the basis of a truly idle and over 20 years untreated.
    1. Akim
      Akim 7 November 2013 15: 05
      +4
      Quote: Avenger711
      Stop raping a corpse, T-64 last year went for scrap.

      He became a corpse in the Russian army, because all the main components were Kharkov. Although the T-80 is also waiting for a sad fate.
      1. Kars
        Kars 7 November 2013 15: 18
        +3
        Quote: Avenger711
        Stop raping a corpse, T-64 last year went for scrap
        Akim
        Although the T-80 is also waiting for a sad fate.

        Like Terminator is not a zombie?
  • Evgeny_Lev
    Evgeny_Lev 7 November 2013 15: 45
    +1
    I wonder right away how ardently some comrades on the forum discuss and approve this craft))

    Are you really blind?
    There is NOTHING there, the fiction is continuous. And God bless him, well, call it a layout or a concept, but no, it says in the context of a prototype built.

    Yes, here on the site in the news of two or one years ago, it was written in plain text that this is a layout (!!!)
    1. Akim
      Akim 7 November 2013 16: 04
      +1
      Quote: Evgeny_Lev
      And God bless him, well, call it a layout or a concept, but no, it says in the context of a prototype built.

      Therefore, he was shown to the Thais. Didn’t think that he was able to develop from the running layout?
      1. Evgeny_Lev
        Evgeny_Lev 7 November 2013 16: 14
        +7


        Have you carefully examined Ukrainian photos? Here it is (!!!) this is quiet horror !!!

        How, even in a concept or a mock-up, can you shove weapons in such a way that it is completely incomprehensible how these weapons "feed" on ammunition?
        Where are the sights for the twin and AGS?
        In the photo of the open airborne squad, it is clearly visible that 12 people will fit there only if they are stacked lying down. But the pepelats is intended precisely for this, and the layout was made precisely for this.

        What can be discussed and added? Plywood landing hatch ???




        And what did the Thais ask?
        The case is not "Where do your hands grow from"?


        Fuck this production ... "It's a shame" (C)
        1. Akim
          Akim 7 November 2013 16: 22
          0
          Quote: Evgeny_Lev
          Have you carefully examined Ukrainian photos?

          What then to talk about. Hi Ren-TV and Prokopenko. Would you like to know when these pictures were taken? Ever heard of cameras?
          1. Evgeny_Lev
            Evgeny_Lev 7 November 2013 16: 41
            +5
            Comrade

            What is the difference when the photo was taken?
            There is fresh, let's see. I will only be glad to take my words back if everything has changed there.

            But I strongly doubt it. Look at the photo from the stern (I talked about plywood on the hatch of the des. Compartment, as well as about the open / close mechanism, they also said here). Where is the shooter located?
            Can you show me the place where he will fight?

            That's right, no you can’t. Because, as the photo shows, there is emptiness. Those. either he should be standing to conduct observation and fire from two (!!!) towers, or he should sit, which completely kills even that very small space that is.

            I seek one. Criticality to what he saw.
            Well, if it’s obvious that the idea is zero, then why sing singing praises and admire her?
            What would those who did this, relax in "languid bliss"?

            ps Yes, about TV cameras when I heard something. It is not clear what this question is for. Are they really there?
            1. Akim
              Akim 7 November 2013 17: 04
              -1
              Quote: Evgeny_Lev
              There is fresh, let's see. I will only be glad to take my words back if everything has changed there.

              But I strongly doubt it. Look at the photo from the stern

              Are you working in the analytical or technical department of the design bureau to judge by photo? I don’t think so. I was a rabbi of the usual brigade, i.e. also do not own the situation completely. BMP-2 and the tank I can discuss, I felt their hands. Here we have a small selection of photos posted by the author on Tanker’s Day that year, when the car just arrived from field trials and was sorted out. Hastily gathered to exhibit.
              I'm not talking about that.
              She was shown to the Thais this summer, along with the BMPV-55 and a fire tank. If they had not counted on a potential purchase, they would not have shown b. The Thai delegation did not come suckers, which can boil any crap. Here from these indicators it is necessary to proceed, and not about the quality of the seams.
              Dozor-B is also not a fountain in the photo on this site, and "Ocilla" in Kölce already had a presentation.
              1. Evgeny_Lev
                Evgeny_Lev 7 November 2013 17: 15
                0
                Quote: Akim
                If they had not counted on a potential purchase, they would not have shown b. The Thai delegation did not come suckers, which can boil any crap. Here from these indicators it is necessary to proceed, and not about the quality of the seams.

                Just the same, there was a calculation. Suddenly a ride and give dough for the production of at least one FULL sample. Like, you Thais do not pay attention, everything will be a bunch !! Is this a serious approach to the production of weapons?
                About "not about the quality of the schwof" it's just some kind of fieria)))
                How can you be entrusted with the fact that someone who is not able to even make a high-quality, thoughtful layout, of what he offers you?
                I imagine what thread the Detroit auto show, at which car manufacturers, will exhibit their concepts with the same attitude to the production of layouts)) LOL
                1. Akim
                  Akim 7 November 2013 17: 20
                  +3
                  Quote: Evgeny_Lev
                  Just the same, there was a calculation. Suddenly a ride and give dough for production

                  With them, Russian AVOS does not channel. They have a different psychology, I know this from the institute.
                  1. Evgeny_Lev
                    Evgeny_Lev 7 November 2013 17: 29
                    0
                    CORRECTLY

                    Because they do not order them))
                    1. Akim
                      Akim 7 November 2013 17: 37
                      +3
                      Quote: Evgeny_Lev
                      Because they do not order them))

                      From the first time only a woman can fly. They only showed him. We do not know the results.
                2. sapran
                  sapran 7 November 2013 18: 22
                  +1
                  LOL Do you react strangely to general world practice or the fact that there were props on wheels at the exhibition in Tagil and plywood doesn’t bother you, and even several countries are participating in the work there ?! !!
              2. Corsair
                Corsair 8 November 2013 13: 44
                +2
                Quote: Akim
                I was ravist ordinary brigade, i.e. also do not own the situation completely.


                Ravista - the supreme essence of ashard. Ravista has always been. He created the universe, it was he who gave us the ashard.

                Once Ravista lived on Earth, communicated with people and animals. He enjoyed communicating with people. Ravista created man in his own image and likeness, which means that he endowed him with the same ability to create, perfect intelligence and feelings. People did not know the need.

                However, some people abused their abilities. They created destructive forces of nature, such as hurricanes, floods, forest fires, meteorites and earthquakes. In a fit of insane joy of destruction, they made unsuitable for life many places on our planet.

                Ravista realized that you can’t leave the Earth like that. He had to take away divine powers from people, lowering them to the level of animals. Some of them still survived and exist today in the form of natural disasters. So that such people do not embarrass the minds of others, Ravista took away their minds. After that, he ascended into heaven, but often secretly visits the Earth. It is possible that one of the living people is his embodiment.

                Soon, Ravista felt very lonely. And then he decided to enlighten the chosen people, again making them like himself. For this, he created ashard. One who finds truth through ashard will become as perfect as Ravista. Many who learned about ashard, sought to follow its only right path. But only a few of the strongest managed to rise to Ravista.

                You ask if such people will again destroy everything on Earth. Not. He who comprehends the ashard will understand that only by creation, and not destruction, can one be likened to Ravista. Ashard makes a person better.

                Take the ashard! laughing (JOKE)

                But seriously, please enlighten what kind of specialty this "terrible" is - RAVIST.
                1. Kars
                  Kars 8 November 2013 13: 47
                  +1
                  Quote: Corsair
                  But if it is serious, please enlighten what kind of specialty this "terrible" - RAVIST ...

                  This continuation of the joke is interesting. Or it’s so hard to come to a logical conclusion / think logically (not necessary to cross out)))))
                  1. Corsair
                    Corsair 8 November 2013 14: 00
                    +1
                    Quote: Kars
                    This continuation of the joke is interesting. Or it’s so hard to come to a logical conclusion / think logically (not necessary to cross out)))))

                    I myself understood WHAT I messed up? fool
                    1. Kars
                      Kars 8 November 2013 14: 02
                      +1
                      Quote: Corsair
                      I myself understood WHAT I messed up?

                      Don’t you understand? Well, this confirms my low opinion of your intellect.
                      1. Corsair
                        Corsair 8 November 2013 14: 21
                        +1
                        Quote: Kars
                        Don’t you understand? Well, this confirms my low opinion of your intellect.

                        It is not for me to understand SUCH comments, but to the teacher of grades 1 - 3, because of the "abundance" of grammatical errors ... And it would not hurt to "connect" a full-time school psychologist.

                        Keep your opinion, "smart guy" with you, together with your "brilliant IQ"

                        For Kars , personally, link to check IQ online:
                        http://yandex.ru/clck/jsredir?from=yandex.ua%3Byandsearch%3Bweb%3B%3B&text=IQ&uu

                        id=&state=AiuY0DBWFJ4ePaEse6rgeAjgs2pI3DW99KUdgowt9XvoT-twMUKrgIlqcQ8fVL941NJGSF

                        zBZlhqZlQYQl-CLcbNZNnus6GW1giYFwzoMjwFVe2Ia9Mpmz1zX2v2ai2NmoGTC49nDnhx4mKkcrYmOD

                        S11MBu83T3p02T1II-mSmRD05yEaQA3IJWIFVQ-N9vdShB_NK8KN4&data=UlNrNmk5WktYejR0eWJFY

                        k1LdmtxcjQ1V1Vla0RTaTducml3S1dWZXNuWE53T3dHQ2stck8xNi1zRFJFb3JQYWlvSXY5SmJYM1Z4Q

                        lRQT2dLVUtIQmhHTU13QkpHZG44&b64e=2&sign=6ba73063c5ce113161c2858beed55627&keyno=0

                        & l10n = ru & mc = 2.235926350629033
                      2. Kars
                        Kars 8 November 2013 14: 29
                        +1
                        Quote: Corsair
                        and a teacher in grades 1 - 3, because of the "abundance" of grammatical

                        Nu-nu do not whimper.
                        Quote: Corsair
                        Keep your opinion, "smart guy" with you, together with your "brilliant IQ"

                        why should I hide my opinion about you from the public? I won’t even put you in emergency situations because you and Sectrack are so funny)))
              3. Akim
                Akim 8 November 2013 13: 55
                +3
                Quote: Corsair
                if it's serious, please enlighten me what kind of specialty this "terrible" - RAVIST ..

                For the miners. There is a service RAV (missile and artillery weapons). Everything that shoots and watches them, they issue, repair and monitor the correct operation
                1. svp67
                  svp67 8 November 2013 14: 01
                  +2
                  Quote: Akim
                  Everything that shoots and watches them, they issue, repair and monitor the correct operation
                  What about accounting?
                  1. Akim
                    Akim 8 November 2013 14: 12
                    0
                    Quote: svp67
                    What about accounting?

                    Accounting I contributed to the issuance. Where without him.
                2. Corsair
                  Corsair 8 November 2013 14: 06
                  0
                  Quote: Akim
                  For the miners. There is a service RAV (missile and artillery weapons). Everything that shoots and watches them, they issue, repair and monitor the correct operation

                  Now I understand the meaning of the above word, and I note, MINER - does not mean Dumb ...
                  This, SO, by the way, so that you are discreet ..
                  Otherwise, you will "run into" turns of speech that are "inconvenient" for you wink
                  1. Akim
                    Akim 8 November 2013 14: 17
                    +3
                    Quote: Corsair
                    and I note, MINER - does not mean Dumb ...

                    I didn’t call the miners, but I pointed to you as working on this path, and not playing the army before, you apparently began to confuse the rabbi with the rabbi. not knowing the hell, and tried to comment. The main thing is to prick.
                    1. Corsair
                      Corsair 8 November 2013 14: 28
                      0
                      Quote: Akim
                      You apparently began to confuse a rabbi with a rabbi. not knowing the hell, and tried to comment. The main thing is to prick.

                      But what about: "Demand will not hit in the nose"?

                      And where did you get that Judas Priest (rabbi) was mentionedfellow
                    2. Akim
                      Akim 8 November 2013 14: 52
                      +1
                      Quote: Corsair
                      But what about: "Demand will not hit in the nose"?

                      I thought at first they ask and then comment. You went the other way around. Or as a Odessa-Malanian (but you will not Odessa) or as a Jew. This is where the rabbi came from.
                    3. Corsair
                      Corsair 8 November 2013 18: 52
                      0
                      Quote: Akim
                      I thought at first they ask and then comment.

                      What you call a "comment" is "marked with a smiley - laughing with notice JOKE.

                      I did not think that the Greeks were in trouble with a sense of humor ...
                    4. Akim
                      Akim 8 November 2013 18: 54
                      0
                      Quote: Corsair
                      marked with a smiley - marked JOKE ...

                      Recognizing you, I actually thought - gloating!
                    5. The comment was deleted.
                    6. Corsair
                      Corsair 8 November 2013 20: 53
                      0
                      Quote: Akim
                      Recognizing you, actually I thought - gloating!

                      Where do you know me, I myself do not fully know myself laughing And "gloat" about what? Are you in grief? lol

                      And dear, you need to read the comments carefully. Then there will be no such misunderstandings, and besides, you studied in Odessa - the capital of Humor, and at the JOK you rumble like Bugai Vitalik for the presidency ...
                    7. Akim
                      Akim 8 November 2013 21: 42
                      0
                      Quote: Corsair
                      besides, you studied in Odessa - the capital of Humor, and at the JOK you rumble like Bugai Vitalik for the presidency ...

                      That's why people think that if you live in a city near the sea, then every day you are sunbathing on the beach?
                      So it is here. Since Odessa - everyone here walks like stoned and neigh?
                    8. Corsair
                      Corsair 8 November 2013 21: 45
                      0
                      Quote: Akim
                      So it is here.

                      Ie a sense of humor, I realized, is completely absent? ...
                    9. Akim
                      Akim 8 November 2013 21: 52
                      0
                      Quote: Corsair
                      Ie a sense of humor, I realized, is completely absent? ..

                      But at sea I go once a week in serious topics, if you don’t know how to joke, then an emoticon will not help
                    10. Corsair
                      Corsair 8 November 2013 22: 02
                      0
                      Quote: Akim
                      if you don’t know how to joke, then the smiley will not help

                      So is the opponent’s lack of sense of humor ...
                    11. Akim
                      Akim 8 November 2013 22: 08
                      0
                      Quote: Corsair
                      and the opponent’s lack of sense of humor ...

                      Are we going to argue as first-graders who has it or will we turn this page of evidence?
  • Kars
    Kars 8 November 2013 14: 31
    +1
    Quote: Akim
    The main thing is to prick.
    ))) but had fun.
  • Dimon-chik-79
    Dimon-chik-79 7 November 2013 21: 37
    -1
    We don’t have any! Not one! And for this, it really should be a shame!
    Unfortunately, the country does not care and does not protect its soldiers
    I hope that so far the situation will change soon
    1. Evgeny_Lev
      Evgeny_Lev 8 November 2013 09: 34
      0
      Comrade, we have such people, in the film "Inhabited Island" they dreamed.

      We put into service?
      1. Akim
        Akim 8 November 2013 10: 15
        +1
        Quote: Evgeny_Lev
        we have such, in the film "Inhabited Island" dreamed.

        They only gathered for the film in Kharkov, like this automatic tank.
    2. svp67
      svp67 8 November 2013 14: 04
      +2
      Quote: Dimon-chik-79
      We don’t have any! Not one!

      There is...
      BMO-T

      BTR-T

      and it should have looked like a heavy BMP based on the T80, back in the 90s
  • Technologist
    Technologist 7 November 2013 16: 32
    +2
    In my opinion, not a bad idea. This is much better than stupidly cutting to metal.
    and cheaper than rebuilding.
    Thanks to the author for an interesting review.
  • SkyMaXX
    SkyMaXX 7 November 2013 16: 43
    -1
    I like it. The security is at the level of the tank, you can fight it on an equal footing, a good 2A42 cannon, they did not forget the ATGMs, and most importantly, they also installed the GSh-23 double-barreled cannon as an anti-aircraft gun, which greatly increases the combat power. I hope the weapon control system, on-board electronics and optical-electronic sighting systems are also at the level. I like everything about him. It can easily destroy targets such as a tank, and unlike conventional light infantry fighting vehicles, it does not have to attack first, it will withstand a firefight with a tank, especially since it only needs to launch a rocket, I think it will not be necessary a second time. It is also much easier for him to "destroy" light armored vehicles, because not only is there a powerful battle-tested cannon 2A42 (or something like its analogue), but he will also use the rapid-fire double-barreled cannon GSH-23. He can easily shoot down an enemy helicopter, if, of course, he still gets so close, because there are also anti-tank missiles that can be aimed at the helicopter.
    1. Evgeny_Lev
      Evgeny_Lev 7 November 2013 17: 22
      +3
      Really, even to laugh weakly.
      Quote: SkyMaXX
      Security at the tank level, you can fight it on an equal footing

      Particularly eloquent about the security at the tank level is the opening next to the mech hatch, as well as the mehan hatch itself.
      Quote: SkyMaXX
      good gun 2A42

      Yes, good. only it’s not her, but a piece of pipe.

      Quote: SkyMaXX
      most importantly, they put in addition a double-barreled gun GS-23 as an anti-aircraft gun


      Only it is not clear how to manage it and what to actually shoot.
      Quote: SkyMaXX
      I hope the weapon control system, on-board electronics and optoelectronic sighting systems are also at the level

      Quite right, at that very level. See the painted black metal square on the tower? This is it.
      Quote: SkyMaXX
      I like everything about him. It can easily destroy targets such as a tank, and unlike conventional light infantry fighting vehicles, it does not have to attack first, it will withstand a firefight with a tank, especially since it only needs to launch a rocket, I think it will not be necessary a second time. It is also much easier for him to "destroy" light armored vehicles, because not only is there a powerful battle-tested 2A42 cannon (or something like its analogue), but he will also use the GSh-23 rapid-fire double-barreled cannon. He can easily shoot down an enemy helicopter, if, of course, he still gets so close, because there are also anti-tank missiles that can be aimed at the helicopter.

      here I fell under the table.
  • SkyMaXX
    SkyMaXX 7 November 2013 16: 43
    -1
    I like it. The security is at the level of the tank, you can fight it on an equal footing, a good 2A42 cannon, they did not forget the ATGMs, and most importantly, they also installed the GSh-23 double-barreled cannon as an anti-aircraft gun, which greatly increases the combat power. I hope the weapon control system, on-board electronics and optical-electronic sighting systems are also at the level. I like everything about him. It can easily destroy targets such as a tank, and unlike conventional light infantry fighting vehicles, it does not have to attack first, it will withstand a firefight with a tank, especially since it only needs to launch a rocket, I think it will not be necessary a second time. It is also much easier for him to "destroy" light armored vehicles, because not only is there a powerful battle-tested cannon 2A42 (or something like its analogue), but he will also use the rapid-fire double-barreled cannon GSH-23. He can easily shoot down an enemy helicopter, if, of course, he still gets so close, because there are also anti-tank missiles that can be aimed at the helicopter.
  • Dimon-chik-79
    Dimon-chik-79 7 November 2013 16: 51
    +1
    Yes, the car is good! Another captivating fact is that in Russia there are about seven thousand T-72s that can already be converted into similar infantry fighting vehicles in the present, giving this glorious technique a second life! And without waiting for the appearance of the platform of Almaty, which can drag on for many years to come. And here is a viable zealous project for the much-needed army of the machine. And this need is no longer in doubt, given the nature and characteristics of modern armed conflicts.
    1. Evgeny_Lev
      Evgeny_Lev 7 November 2013 17: 25
      +2
      Would you like to reveal the topic of "project viability"?

      I somehow do not hope for the plywood from which the landing hatch is made, and you?

      ps even if they took a piece without knots, well, or painted over it humanly.
      1. Dimon-chik-79
        Dimon-chik-79 7 November 2013 21: 47
        +1
        Totally agree with you! Luke needs to be changed!
        And I did not mean blind copying (at least in light of the problems of the T-64 with the chassis, but not only)
  • Prohor
    Prohor 7 November 2013 16: 59
    0
    Purely post-USSR-ovsky fun: endless and sick of it, right, modernization and alteration of technology for half a century! Moreover, absolutely nothing is actually being massively modernized.
    Can't we do anything else? Well, well, in Kubinka there is a lot of things, for centuries "BTT designers" will have enough ...
  • Prohor
    Prohor 7 November 2013 16: 59
    0
    Purely post-USSR-ovsky fun: endless and sick of it, right, modernization and alteration of technology for half a century! Moreover, absolutely nothing is actually being massively modernized.
    Can't we do anything else? Well, well, in Kubinka there is a lot of things, for centuries "BTT designers" will have enough ...
    1. sapran
      sapran 7 November 2013 17: 57
      +1
      Yes Kubinka fount ... Iron can stand for several decades with simple care. But people who create can for so long unfortunately not live ...
  • _KM_
    _KM_ 7 November 2013 17: 27
    +2
    Quote: Prokhor
    Purely post-USSR-ovsky fun: endless and sick of it, right, modernization and alteration of technology for half a century!


    In Europe and Israel, relatively recently, they modernized equipment of the Great Patriotic War ("Shermans" and "Chaffee") and did not worry. :)

    I think that the basis for the successful implementation of tank-based BMPs by Kharkiv is a very compact diesel engine and this will not work with a B2-based power unit.
    1. Prohor
      Prohor 7 November 2013 19: 36
      +1
      The real "implementation" is when the vehicle enters the army en masse. The car in question - design, development, concept car, if you like. I'm afraid they will remain.
  • Pashhenko Nikolay
    Pashhenko Nikolay 7 November 2013 19: 02
    +2
    Judging by the video about camouflage with such a mellow engine, you don’t have to think about it. It is unlikely that someone sane would be interested in this smoking miracle, whatever its other advantages would be.
  • Legioner
    Legioner 7 November 2013 19: 09
    +1
    The idea is not new, but its embodiment in metal is interesting in itself, but as the author of the article himself notes, the prospects for this development are "ghostly", and I would add that they are hopeless, if only because Ukraine essentially wants to become a NATO member and, accordingly, will not only to bring their aircraft to their standards, but also to buy the equipment of the alliance, and gradually put a fat point on their developments.
    Although I really liked the implementation.
  • alex86
    alex86 7 November 2013 19: 25
    +1
    Without claiming special knowledge, the main thing I see is the placement of the landing hatch at the rear (with all the attendant changes). We don’t have anything to do with it, all half measures are somehow: it’s necessary to climb from above, then from the side ...
  • URAL72
    URAL72 7 November 2013 20: 03
    +1
    Interesting developments, but in my opinion, discussing this project through the prism of supplies to the Russian army is stupid. In Russia, there are thousands of T-72s in warehouses (reserve) - MBT of the Russian army. With the arrival of new types of tanks, those that are now in service will also be put into reserve. UVZ has modernization projects no worse, take the same "terminator". This should have been done yesterday, and not only for the Caucasus, but primarily for the Far East, where we are inferior in all respects. It would also not hurt to cover Petersburg with such vehicles, with an eye to "return" the Baltic states. It is also better to help Armenia out by taking a walk on terminators through Gryzuniya, and at the same time restoring the status quo in the Caspian by the annexation of Azerbaijan. In Central Asia, they will also come in handy, therefore, no cutting into metal, sales, etc., such stocks are not needed in warehouses, it is better to store new equipment or the same terminator. With the new MSA, even it will give odds not to the modernized T-72, but a small stock of missiles, does not mean that the tank in modern combat will have time to use all the ammunition ...
    1. Hug
      Hug 7 November 2013 23: 07
      -1
      Malbrook was going camping.
  • Dimon-chik-79
    Dimon-chik-79 7 November 2013 22: 09
    0
    Indeed, most of the stored t-72s could be converted into BMPT and BMP (similar to Ukrainian). That would be the best use of this machine I think so. The rest of the T-72 must be upgraded to T-72B3. And until that happy moment arrives when Armata and infantry fighting vehicles on the given platform begin to enter the troops.
  • Russen barbar
    Russen barbar 8 November 2013 06: 52
    +3
    What is BMP in general? This is the development of the PT-76 amphibious tank. Where did such a need for amphibian come from? From the second world.
    Quite often, it was necessary to overcome water barriers, build bridgeheads and build bridges for military equipment. The problem is that at that time there were few amphibious tanks and soldiers often had to cross to the opposite bank under fire on makeshift rafts and logs, or even just swim. Of course, the losses were tangible. In Russia, the equipment of the army is quite late. Roughly speaking, we are now being intensively crammed with what was needed 70 years ago.
    Such vehicles, such as BTR-82A and BMP-3, are more correctly called airborne or just combat assault vehicles (BMD). You can land by air or from the sea. Accordingly, BMDs must either float or be lifting for helicopters. But there is a problem. To be lifting for the MI-26 you need to weigh a little, up to 20 tons. And to sail, you need to have a significant internal volume of space - for example, an aircraft carrier, although it weighs tens and hundreds of tons, but due to its size it is able to stay on water even with a squadron of aircraft.
    How is the light weight of a combat vehicle achieved? Small size and bulletproof booking.
    Example: British tank "Scorpion" - 8 tons.
    How is buoyancy achieved? Armored vehicles are simply made in large sizes.
    Example: American BMP "Bradley" - 36 tons.
    Is it possible to combine sea (buoyancy) and air (helicopter) landing?
    Yes you can. Only there will be a need to stretch those 8-10-15 tons of armor to twice the volume.
    As a result, the machine will be easily broken. Hello to our BMD-3 and BTR-82.
    What should be the protection? Depending on what it is being created against.
    The Kalashinokov assault rifle penetrates 7mm armor at a distance of 250m. The armor of the BTR-82A is exactly the same 7mm. :))))) Nice.
    The Kord machine gun takes out 20-30mm armor depending on the type of ammunition.
    KPVT makes 30-35mm with conventional cartridges already at a distance of 500m.
    An automatic gun 30mm 2A72 at the same 500m sews 25-51mm, but already at an angle of 60 *.
    What equipment protects against a Kalashnikov assault rifle and how much does it weigh?
    BA "Tiger" with armor 6A, weight 6 tons.
    What equipment protects against a machine gun and how much does it weigh?
    BMP "Bradley" USA - 22,8-36,9 tons, BMP Marder 28-33 tons.
    It should be noted that they are protected even from 14,5 mm KPVT.
    Conclusion: BMD amphibious assault with normal protection should resemble BMP "Bradley".
    BMD airborne assault with normal protection should resemble a light tank "Scorpion".
    (tanks "Chaffee", T-80, Panzer "Luchs".)
    Tank, non-landing BMP-K-64 and BMPV-64 are not yet clear in their need and usefulness on the battlefield. If you remodel them from old tanks, it’s still bearable, but building them on a new one will be very expensive. We already have a BMP-3 at a cost almost equal to the T-90, which should not be according to the idea ...
    And so this multifunctional landing of the T-82A and BMP-3 already got the order of all. Yes, of course, it is useful for interacting with the Air Force and Navy. But such performance characteristics simply ruin their land combat use.
    1. badger1974
      badger1974 8 November 2013 10: 17
      0
      I dare to notice there is one excellent detail, these are the grilles on the sides to fit bags of local soil as needed, a wonderful idea from the time of the Crimean War, the defense of Sevastopol 4th bastion, because RPG-7 grenades gnaw any armor of any thickness and layering
  • Evgeny_Lev
    Evgeny_Lev 8 November 2013 09: 36
    0
    Comrades

    Objectively speaking, well, don’t you see that in terms of dimensions there is no way to pile from 64, what is declared? Well i.e. Absolutely nothing.
  • just exp
    just exp 8 November 2013 10: 54
    +1
    Yes, it’s nothing like a machine, better than nothing, only the infantry’s exit is embarrassing, too narrow.
  • _KM_
    _KM_ 8 November 2013 10: 55
    0
    Diesel T-72, and, accordingly, MTO are large. It can’t be moved forward - it’s difficult, expensive and inconvenient in terms of layout. So leave in place, but what about the landing? Dismount under enemy fire through the top hatches, and even on the go? The Kharkov car in this regard is more convenient - the back exit, under the cover of the body, the nose is quite short and does not really worsen the front view.
    1. Tommygun
      Tommygun 8 November 2013 11: 05
      0
      Is it larger in size than the T-54 / 55?
  • _KM_
    _KM_ 8 November 2013 12: 03
    +1
    Yes, it seems the same. But on the Israeli armored personnel carrier "Azarchite" instead of the V-2, the American diesel V-8 with GMF was supplied. Such a block is more compact, so they were able to make a "tunnel" for the exit from the stern.
    1. Tommygun
      Tommygun 8 November 2013 13: 45
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      Thank you, they answered immediately to my next question.
      I did not know that they changed the diesel.
    2. Alekseev
      Alekseev 8 November 2013 18: 50
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      Quote: _KM_
      Yes, it seems the same. But on the Israeli armored personnel carrier "Azarchite" instead of the B-2, an American diesel V-8 with GMF was supplied

      Tank diesel on the T-55 is not bulky at all, even, at one time there was a champion in overall power. But he is in our tanks (after the T-34 yes ) is worth across corps. Try to make a tunnel here! request
      A completely redo MTO ... It is necessary to consider, however, whether the game is worth the candle. Especially on the basis of 55 matches. It may be cheaper to bungle a new car.
  • Prapor-527
    Prapor-527 8 November 2013 22: 33
    +1
    Forget about these cars ... For Ukraine, NATO will determine its place, and accordingly its cars ...
    1. Legioner
      Legioner 9 November 2013 10: 31
      0
      Totally agree
  • badger1974
    badger1974 10 November 2013 20: 04
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    Quote: Prapor-527
    Forget about these cars ... For Ukraine, NATO will determine its place, and accordingly its cars ...

    this is how to give a drink, it’s a pity that such a tank industry will support, as I said, this is convulsions
  • Gans1234
    Gans1234 2 November 2014 19: 46
    0
    BMD is the only one in the range that is more / less acceptable - because after landing from the plane in the rear - this is already buzzing.
    BTR-T must be done. And replace them with both BMPs and armored personnel carriers.
    Upgrading is available.
    Put on top the combat module with the external location of the ammunition - with 30mm fluff, ags, machine gun, and a pair of guided missiles - as always. Under it in the center dviglo, in the stern of the landing.
    Voila - hit with a border - it’s blowing, and if it breaks, the crew’s chances of survival are much higher, even inside
    Yes, it does not swim, but modern engineering technology builds bridges for one or two. But to survive and save the infantry in battle is more important.
    Right now, similar ones are being developed or have already been developed by Germans, Swedes, Americans. We made dill, but in the army there is zero.
    And we are all riding on aluminum. Dets full