T-72B3 ... what is this beast? 2 part

We continue to clarify the upgrade of the T-72B3.
Start in the 1 part.

- Twin machine gun:
Coaxial machine gun unchanged - reliable FCT, PKTm. In any case, there is no data on tank versions of "Pecheneg" and "Pecheneg-2."

Photo 41: PKT machine gun.

Interested in the question of how much attention was paid to the reliable isolation of spent cartridges. As practice has shown, the rupture of the bag and their scattering on the conveyor AZ can lead to non-sugar effects.

- LSD:
Fully fall into a stupor when you see an open manual control gear lock ...

42 Photo: Disassembled T-72B3 TSS.

One flaw quite naturally forms another.
Commander has NO instruments capable of controlling and aiming. Savings on the installation of a minimum (TKN-4-01) resulted in the rejection of the remote LSD.

How smart is it necessary to be a person ordering in 2011, after all local wars, a variant of such an installation ??? True, I said very gently? It was not easy for me.

Good and efficient weapon practically idle idle. It can not be used while under rifle fire.

Not only does the commander literally give up control of the tank, giving himself the gunner and mechanic, not only does he risk like a daredevil for sure, but he also plays a circus show titled: “And why haven't you riddled me yet? I have been hanging around on stage a lot of time, performing before you a stupid dance called "Preparation of the ZPU" cliff "for shooting».
See for yourself:
- Tilt the door back onto the stopper.
- Put the inner shoulder strap with TKN-3 on the stopper.
- Remove the middle shoulder strap from the stop lock from the stop and rotate the installation towards the enemy.

(To accelerate, we shoot without using a sight, and we will assume that the box is already fastened, the tape is laid in the receiver, the fuse is off, the machine gun is cocked - this is how we violate the safety rules).

- Disconnect the cradle.
- Turn the vertical flywheel with your right hand, locking it with your fingers with the lever on the flywheel handle.
- With the left hand holding the extended lever, with a force we turn the device horizontally and stop it with the whole hand, pressing this lever down, and ...

Attention drum roll ...

Without changing the position of a single muscle (!!!) of the hands, with the fingers of the left hand, we press the lever of the electric trigger. If you do not reach the desired "shooter", then repeat the horizontal lead again.

Even a trained tanker will mess around long enough for him to be guaranteed and spanked several times. A newcomer will not be able to understand the intricacies of leverage at all, and he always lacks one, third, hand.

Photo 43: Shooting from the ZPU "T-72B Rock" at the range under Chekhovo.

If for some unknown reason you remained alive, then you need to perform this procedure in the reverse order. Otherwise, the “Cliff” trunk will fly up to the heavens, and the average shoulder strap will dangle from side to side, respectively, you can forget about trying to see something through TKN-3.

As a result, the "cliff" of the tank was loved at the roadblocks, when armor was attached to reinforcements.

A competent tanker from such a machine gun will not let anyone on the effective range of fire from small arms. That's all his ability to use in the way in which he is now.

At the Tagil arms exhibition in 2013, a variant of the “urban tank” was shown, at which the commander's protective box was installed.

Photo 44: Protection commander for firing from the ZPU.

Until now I have been asking everyone: to which pursuit is this shell attached? Kind of like an internal epaulet with TKN-3. Otherwise it makes no sense ... The commander clearly has his hands and his back will fall off after an hour of torsion of this size of scrap metal.

Of course, such protection is better than nothing, but: how much is the total: TKN-3 + ZPU Utes (Kord) + barrel-shaped protection? This money is almost thrown to the wind.

Maybe all the same TKN-4C-01 and not so expensive? And maybe, finally, we will reconsider the doctrine of the use of portable weapons, re-qualifying it from anti-aircraft to auxiliary for personal protection from bearded lovers to carry a “seven” on their shoulder?

Photo 45: Machine gun installation UDP T05BV-1 T-90MS.

Armament Conclusion:
- Wonderful modernization of the entire main complex: gun + AZ + ammunition of increased power. Together, this significantly increases the tank's ability to accurately and quickly destroy the enemy.
- PKT, as always, taxis.
—ZPU is a complete disregard for the life of tankers and belittling the fire capabilities of the machine.

4. Change in fire fighting equipment

The system of fire-fighting equipment (PPO) 3ЭЦ13 "Hoarfrost" of the T-72B3 tank is a development of NPO Electromashina.

Photo 46: The composition of the kit PPO "Frost."

It is an automatic system for detecting and extinguishing a fire, ensuring the ESD mode under operating conditions.
Action: 2 multiple.
To extinguish the fires, there is an 4 cylinder with an extinguishing mixture “114B2 freon” and “13B1 freon”.
The system includes: automatic control unit В13, control panel and alarm system П13, ventilation control box КУВ11-6-1с, dynamic braking box К11. The notification of the system is made by 10 optical sensors OD1-1С and 5 with temperature sensors TD-1 (in the engine compartment).

Photo 47: layout of the 3ETS13 devices in the tank.

When the system is triggered, 90% of the extinguishing agent is ejected in a time not exceeding 150 milliseconds from the sensor signal.
The principle of the system is based on the extinguishing action of halocarbons, i.e. on the inhibitory (retarding) effect, which consists in introducing into the flame zone a negative catalyst for the oxidation reaction of hydrocarbons. The software system can be activated automatically or manually from the buttons on the control panels at the vehicle commander or the driver. In addition, the tank is equipped with two handheld carbon dioxide fire extinguishers, often referred to among tank crews as the “Hero's Dream”.

Nothing new in the software system T-72B3 is not noticeable. "Rime" was installed on armored vehicles since T-72BA (although I remember it perfectly in the second half of 90-x on T-72B). Put this equipment and T-90.
For 1989 cars of the year, of course, it is a novelty ... For those who doubt, a photo, where the characteristic contours of the 13 Pneumx control panel and alarm system of the Hoarfrost system are visible in the background. The 3, 13, 1 sub-indices are possible in 2EC11.

48 photo: OD1-1С optical sensor installed in the control compartment. Background PU PU system.

Previously, the T-72B was installed on the 3ATS11-3 system with 14-15 thermal sensors (without optical), three times a day with 3 cylinders filled with “114B2 Freon”.

Conclusion: This PPO is not a novelty, but it is undoubtedly better than the old 80’s standard models, which were replaced during modernization.

5. Protection

A. Internal:
Identify internal changes in booking a car is not possible, and rightly so. Secrets - they must be secrets in Africa too. However, it is hard to believe in the production of works in this direction: to alter the tower and the building is not at all that easy.

Reservations turret T-72 refers to the "semi-active" type. In front of the tower are two cavities located at an angle 54-55 degrees to the longitudinal axis of the gun. In each cavity there is a pack of twenty 30-mm blocks, each of which consists of 3 layers glued together. Block layers: 21-mm armor plate, 6-mm rubber layer, 3-mm metal plate. 3 thin metal plates are welded to the armor plate of each unit, providing the distance between the 22 units mm. Both cavities have an 45-mm armor plate located between the bag and the internal wall of the cavity. The total weight of the contents of the two cavities 781 kg.

49 Photo: T-72B tank filler package with reflective sheets.

The constructions of non-explosive anti-cumulative dynamic protection contain, instead of a layer of explosives between the outer inert layers of a material with a high density, an inner layer of a chemically inert material called "filler", such as plastic, rubber, paraffin, or mixtures based on them. When a CS penetrates through a "non-explosive" element, a diverging shock wave is formed in the filler, under the influence of which the material of the outer layers surrounding the point of impact is accelerated. Due to the rapid decrease in pressure in the HC, the acceleration of the outer layers is localized near the point of impact. Despite the limited size of the zone in which the accelerated movement of the outer layers of an EDS with an inert filler occurs, a decrease in the depth of the armor-piercing effect due to the destruction of the high-speed part of the CS can reach 65-70%.
Abroad, this type of protection is classified as NERA (non-energetic reactive armor).

Photo 50: One of the niches with installed packages of tank filler T-72B.

B. External:
Seeing for the first time the external protection of the T-72B3, you involuntarily fall into a complete tailspin ...
Did TTZ exactly make up the General Staff of the Russian Federation? Or maybe the enemies are warning in advance?

Let's try to consider without a mat. Why is there no "Relic"? Or is it not the end of the year 2013?

Universal complex DZ "Contact-5" was adopted in the middle 80-s. What does it mean?

Photo 51: Installing remote "Contact-5" on T-72B3.

Why is the fighting machine protected worse than the old T-72B?
WE HAVE NOT HAVE A BITTERY EXPERIENCE AT ALL RECENTLY?
No matter how paradoxical it may sound, the protection variant “Contact-1” of the T-72B tank looks ... somehow preferable.

Photo 52: Installing remote "Contact-1" on T-72B.

And this is not said for the sake of a red word.

Many tankers, who happened to "work" on orders in different "tmutrakani", would prefer a CONTINUOUS protection with old DZ blocks than any supernovaled new (even "Relic") installed in places and ... in chunks.
The fact is that there are not “Javelins” at every corner, but all sorts of bearded men who consider the G7 to be their national weapon - at least a dime a dozen. You can even stumble about them in some parts at every turn.

Tower Defense:
Why is it completely open in frontal projection?
On the one hand, they dismantled the "Moon" and ... forgot to install the DZ block? From the PCT embrasure to the nearest block there is still a football field of frontal armor.
On the other hand, the hole is left in favor of the comfort of the driver? What a caring we GSH.

But for some reason on other models of combat vehicles do not care so much. As on the same "Slingshot", for example, or T-90. So it is possible?

Photo 53: T-90 with DZ "Contact-5" around the gun mask.

Why are T-72B3 DZ blocks placed with such disregard?

Photo 54: Placing DZ blocks on the T-72B3 tower.

And the matter is not even in the holes between the blocks, but in the openness of the tower shoulder strap, which on T-72B was covered with an additional belt of “Contact-1” blocks.

Photo 55: T-72B turret protection (Army of Belarus).

And even with such protection, they hung and wound up anything:

Photo 56: Khankala. April 1996 G. Zhilin.

Why is the T-72B3 shoulder strap open to all winds?

Photo 57: Breaking the tower below blocks DZ T-72B (M). Xnumx Omsbr. The crew died. January 74

Why can not make the most complete protection?

58 Photo: Frontal protection option for the T-90 turret.

Although even on the T-90 the shoulder strap is protected worse than on the T-80U.

Photo 59: T-80 and T-90 turret shoulder strap protection scheme.

In the defense of the tower on the sides and back of the T-72B3, as always, they control the long-suffering boxes of spare parts.

Photo 60: Side protection of the tower and the hull T-72B3.

Photo 61: Terrible. January 1995. The tank commander was killed.

Again, we will independently sculpt protection from what is at hand?

Photo 62: Side protection of the tower from the drawers of the RAV tank T-72B near the village of Komsomolsk. The lattice screen with a raised OPVT pipe is clearly visible.

Protection of the roof of the tower - a separate issue.
Why was it so on T-72B?

63 photo: T-72B tower roof protection.

Why it became so?

64 photo: T-72B3 tower roof protection.

The idea of ​​the GSH is not clear ...
- If this is a defense in a large-scale war, then it will not help in any way against cluster munitions aviation and MLRS large caliber WTO regime. By the way, the anti-nuclear bullet also disappeared.
“If this is protection from bearded men with the G7, then they ... will just laugh while looking at this protection!”
They searched for unprotected places.

Photo 65: Grozny. January 1995. Falling from the top floor of the building into the commander's turret T-72B. The commander died.

This car could only be stopped like this ...
THIS MUST NOT REPEAT.

Enclosure protection:
Protection of frontal armor corps pleases. And the side? There is no her. Photos of 60 and 66.

Photo 66: Side protection body T-72B3.

In the protection of the sides of the case at the head of the corner stands rubber screen. Even without boxes DZ "Contact-1".

Based on the realities of applications mounted DZ (city), we can draw some conclusions:

The contact of the case with a non-combat obstacle:
Weak:
- Rubber fabric screen with boxes DZ well bends around minor obstacles WITHOUT damage to the protection itself.
- Frame hanging DZ demolishes.
- Heavy screens are in place.
Среднее:
- Rezinotkanevy screen pulls away cell by cell, if they are not fixed among themselves.
- Frame hanging demolishes.
- Heavy screen stands still.
Strong:
- Rubber in the trash.
- Skeleton in twist.
- Heavy screen pulls down one span.

Why on T-72B3 not put side protection, as, for example, in the serial BMO-T?

Photo 67: Lateral protection BMO-T. The parade of troops in Yekaterinburg.

Protection rear projection remains the greatest misfortune of serial machines. It seems that the tanks never turn their backs on the enemy ... You tell me about this “bearded” with the “seven”. He is just waiting for this, because THIS is his bread.

68 Photo: Rear Projection Protection T-72B3.

And where is the defense? Barrels are removed before the "work". All naked. Why it is impossible to put lattice screens, like in BMPT or a variant of a city tank?

Photo: 69. Protection of the rear projection of the version of the "urban tank" modifications T-72.

Creating a simple circular defense is not a flight to Mars of a nuclear-powered submarine with a ballistic missile on a caterpillar. Everything is much and much easier. And inexpensive. The question is why do we do this? Almost a rhetorical question, if his tankers are more than 20-years old (in my spirit) are asked.

The T-72B3 protection conclusion is very emotional. Because it is not clear what interferes with hanging “boxes” with “Contact-5” or “Relic” on the ALL surface? The total mass of equipped DZ blocks? But it seems there is still a sufficient resource of modernization without significant changes in the hardware. And even with the B-84 engine, power density does not suffer.

Conclusion on protection: I would not send my tank crews to “work” without boiling additional DZ boxes and grids. With the involvement of, respectively, BREM and with the agreement with the deputy technologist and ... "chm.shnikami."

6. Engine, transmission and chassis.

Almost no changes.

Engine:
B-84-1 left in place. B-92 is not set. Tankers, accustomed to the GTE, are shocked by all engines without distinction, but diesel drivers are frankly happy. The 84 is time tested and reliable. The troops know how to handle it. B-92 needs to collect claims from army trials.
And so, this is the same upgraded B-46-6. He has a large family: В-46-2С1, В-46-4, В-46-5, В-46-5М, В-84, В-84-1, В-84М, В-84М, В-84-1, В-XNUMXМ, В-XNUMXМ, В-XNUMX-XNUMX, В-XNUMXМ, В-XNUMXМ, В-XNUMX-XNUMX, В-XNUMXМ, В-XNUMXХ .

Photo: 70. Engine B-84 cm horsepower 840

Transmission:
Once moved the same, then the transmission is really the same. Guitar unchanged, BKP without amplification and an increase in the number of friction pairs in the friction controls. Bearings support sun gear are the same. The radiators and the friction clutch are the same.

Chassis:
Replaced caterpillar with a serial RMSH on a caterpillar with parallel RMSH. They are currently installed on both the T-90 (with 1996 g.) And T-72BA (with 2000 g.) When upgraded with replacement of the corresponding chassis parts in order to operate this track.

Whether the entire undercarriage was upgraded to the level of T-72BA (there were tangible changes in the installation variant of the B-92C2 engine) is unknown.

Photo 71: Caterpillar with parallel RMSH.

Conclusion:
No change except the caterpillar and the necessary elements of the chassis.

General conclusion:

A) Emotional:
Disappointment. Over the 20 years, almost nothing has changed with the modernization of the T-72. (Personal opinion, some talk about both 25 and 30 years of experience).

B) Objective (in moderation):
- Impressive modernization of the whole set of capabilities of the main staff under the gunner’s control: an upgraded tank gun with improved shooting parameters, a new aiming complex, an upgraded automatic loader with the possibility of firing with the newest shots.
- It depresses the leveling of these qualities by an almost blind commander.
It's not a secret for specialists that hitting a target ... is much easier than detecting and classifying a danger in time. The commander of the T-72B3 is unable to do this.
- There is hope about bringing to the mind installed communication systems.
- PPO "Frost" is not bad, but 2-multiplicity of application is not enough, it is desirable to increase, as well as the number of cylinders.
- Complete shock from the protection of the hull and turret.
- The engine, transmission and chassis (except for the harp with RMSH) - the same as many years ago.
Overall impression - began upgrading the machine and ... did not finish it. Moreover, further improvement of the machine does not require additional serious money.

After written:

At the exhibition of armament, military equipment and ammunition Russia Arms Expo (RAE 2013) a full-scale model of KAZ Arena-E mounted on T-72B3 was presented. Modern and costly achievements of the military industry are again side by side with ... TKN-3 commander and an open ZPU ...

Photo 72: T-72B3 with KAZ "Arena-E."

PS
The concept of the General Staff in relation to the existing fleet of tanks in the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation is visible:
- Reliance on the existing park T-90.
- Liquidation of machines of the T-80 family.
- Upgrade the T-72 to the level T-72B3.
Hence:
T-90 around 500 pcs.
The rest of the niche will occupy T-72B3.

And it will be BEFORE the arrival of "Almaty".
But Armata is still at the design and testing stage.
In order for it to go into series, a long-term cycle of state and military tests is necessary. And only after that it will be possible to talk about serial deliveries of the volumes that the military-industrial complex will be able to provide and pay for the Defense Ministry under the rearmament state program.

So ... We are entering the XXI century, before entering the linear armored units and units, "Armaty" with ... the current version of T-72B3?

Tankers are not critics. “Fuel Oil” (of my generation and many others) thinks about HOW you can accomplish the task and order on available military equipmentwhile maintaining the lives of fighters. Tankmen of linear units do not dream of future promises and do not wave the booklets of the newest tanks. They serve in the army TODAY on the technique that is in the army. And right now.

Использованная литература:
Tank T-72A. Technical description and instruction manual. Book 2. 1988
Tank T-72B. Technical description and instruction manual. 1995

On the materials of the sites:
http://otvaga2004.ru
http://lib.rus.ec
http://www.uvz.ru
http://gurkhan.blogspot.de
http://www.vestnik-rm.ru
http://www.arms-expo.ru
http://vadimvswar.narod.ru
http://www.uralmixtorg.ru
http://www.army-guide.com
http://www.npoelm.ru
http://otvaga2004.mybb.ru
http://russianarms.mybb.ru
http://www.military-informant.com
http://btvt.narod.ru
http://www.rg.ru

Comments

[Ols76]

T-72 survived the collapse of the USSR, so many years have passed and they are all being modernized instead of building a new one.

[Far East]

Quote: Ols76

T-72 survived the collapse of the USSR, so many years have passed and they are all being modernized instead of building a new one.

Yes, because he is a SUPERR tank! without cheers of patriotism!

[Andrey Yuryevich]

guys! I honestly have no armored vehicles, unlike my grandfather, who went through the war all over Europe and all of Europe, but are there any specialists here? so, looking at the tank biathlon on tv, what I saw was really jarring, constant equipment failures (and the tanks were being prepared!) unconvincing shooting (and the best crews and arrows), so-so driving (and mechanics are the best drivers) as a result what do we have in the bottom line? there’s no demand from conscripts, for a year they don’t know anything at all (with the exception of nuggets that are always everywhere) but apparently also contract soldiers not really .... since it’s the best.

[Alekseev]

Yuryevich, the decades of collapse, crowned by the time when the Armed Forces lived under the "chairmanship" of Perdukov, do not pass in vain. Unfortunately.
It seems that the leaders sometimes thought, like the hero of J. Hasek, that "military service is a joke, a comedy", that one can escape from all problems by concluding a "suction" agreement, that a defense plant that has stood for ten years is possible, as if nothing had happened , to re-launch the production of complex military equipment in large quantities and of acceptable quality ...
At the biathlon this is a natural result, s (despite the fact that exercises, frankly, are not the top of the difficulty).

[Aleks tv]

Quote: Alekseev

exercises, frankly, are not the top of difficulty

Yeah, the namesake.

Not at all the top of the difficulty.
3-e UKS will be more serious, as well as test driving, and this is the routine in the troops.

The bogeyman knows what happened to them on the biathlon.

[Andrew 447]

Hello Alexey! Thank you very much for the work done on the analysis of "this marvelous modernization" and for the excellent article. It reminded me of this modernization, the modernization of the T-64 of the first issues in the GSVG in the 80s, they considered that the inclined sheet was thin and decided to weld on an additional sheet 5 cm thick, the effect is very dubious, but the center of mass was violated. Well, for the modernization to be correct, you need officers from the Arbat district and the General Staff in tanks and in hot spots. I think all the tankers and you and I were happy about the results of the modernization.

[Aleks tv]

Quote: Andrey 447

I think all tank crews were happy with the results of modernization, and you and I.

Greetings, Andrew.

I remember your comments earlier, I am glad to receive such a response from my "fuel oil" ...

He got sick simply, he wrote it.

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Alexei, this is understandable, but I’m thinking, since they invited the NATO troops to biathlon, what are they counting on? if they refuse, then their affairs are no better? and if they accept the challenge, then what will we put up? T-80 or T-90 with letters? and the crews are already training? like the Olympians, in advance? but now it’s clear that the army is full of ahtutg! not so long ago, fate brought together friends of the tanker on one anniversary, well, and after the adoption, two men naturally started talking for service, I’m an Air Force, and he is a tanker, and he complained that they put him from 64 to 72, he says I was at ease, everything worked out, but in 72ke, I didn’t like everything. (I say again, I'm not special).

[Kars]

Quote: Andrey Yurievich

if they refuse, then their affairs are no better?

If they refuse, it will not mean anything. Think for yourself how much money you need to bring tanks, maintenance personnel. And as such there is no task like training in biathlon. Sorry, it's a simple window dressing.

[Walker1975]

As always ... God forbid war, and you can only remember with longing that "the British do not clean guns with bricks"

[kott]

Either you are a bullhorn, or you didn’t have such a grandfather. You at least open the same shitty Wikipedia and then you will learn about the KV tank and how your grandfather could go through the whole war on it, and especially in Europe.

[Andrey Yuryevich]

and how could your grandfather go through the whole war on it, and especially in Europe? - ANSWER: (on tracks, like all tanks, and why should I read the wiki, if I have talked about this topic with my grandfather more than once, you learn history from Wikipedia, and our generation learned something firsthand.

[kott]

Son, turn on your brains. I am over forty, and I don’t know about your generation, which merges right there. So you still tell me how your unique grandfather was able to go through the whole war, and only on HF which were produced at the beginning of the war and before the war only a few hundred? I think so here everyone will immediately want to meet the grandson of such a heroic grandfather. Maybe you’ll name his grandfather and in what regiment, division did he serve? By the way, your father’s cop day, although he’s Kiev!

[Andrey Yuryevich]

grandfather, Mikhail Vasilyevich Ilyin, documents are kept with my daughter, with my mother, if the region pressed you, I will certainly write down all the details for you next time, my grandfather is not a hero of the Soviet Union, but he has a dozen Red Star medals, and to me - more than fifty ... so this son is about you ... and if KV wasn’t released much, then grandfather didn’t have enough?

[kott]

Once again, son, I kind of hinted to you that your grandfather couldn’t only wage war on the KV. But you see that you are stubborn as the Georgian to whom your uncle told how he shot at the Russian paratroopers in Abkhazia and they fell and stood up again because they wore armor-clad jackets. At the same time, he said, you don’t believe my uncle, my uncle never lied.

[viddiv]

Ilyinykh Mikhail Vasilievich fought on the KV-122 tank, was awarded the Order of the Great Patriotic and Red Stars. On the site you will find the feat of the people http://www.podvig-naroda.ru/.

[Alex toll]

Shut your mouth - you when you open it as if shit ... but it got into the fan

[sivuch]

Kott
Is it always you-ignorance is replaced by aplomb? KV-85, for example, was fought for up to 45 years.
My first deputy head of the department ended the war at the rate of 45 matches, which was officially withdrawn from service a long time ago. By the way, a wonderful man, I hope I'm still alive

[Andrey Yuryevich]

and why is my father "Kiev" because of the motorcycle "Kievite"? from the Urals, we are not a big deal! from the Urals!

[lelikas]

Quote: kott

Which HF was produced at the beginning of the war and before the war, only a few hundred?

How-be history hints at the opposite - 4775 KV series cars of all types.
After the war, the Poles got 5 pieces of KV-85 - i.e. at least they reached Poland on their own.

[coast]

can still change their mind at the expense of t 80, the Arctic, no matter how how to develop

[vjhbc]

well done himself commander wife gunner son mechanic and into battle and the rest of the same

Quote: Far East

Yes, because he is a SUPERR tank! without cheers of patriotism!

[varov14]

I saw tanks only in the picture and on the pedestal, the tank may be super, but the article gives the impression that the modernizers are far from super, and there are opportunities. It’s a disregard for the matter, to change things. Or maybe the factories already have no one to do and roll on a lightweight program, anyhow.

[Xroft]

As I understood from the article, the key problem is protection (it does not completely cover key places) / not an automatic system for machine gun air defense / and the Pine scope which is not placed correctly and is closed by a bar (without an automatic system).
Well, like all this can be changed? it’s certainly more difficult to place Pines, but setting an automatic bar is not a problem. Maybe they will listen to the tankers and make changes, it seems not so difficult / costly. The main thing is to knock the bosses may lobby until 2020, we will believe in the best.

[alone]

the only thing I can say, the author did a great job! thanks for the stuff

[bask]

Quote: lonely

They serve in the army TODAY on the equipment that is in the troops. And right now.

Hi LESH.
Great articles.
And the epilogue is great,SERVICE PERSON.
It is a pity that it will not enter the T-90 military in modifications and destroy the T-80.

[Aleks tv]

Quote: bask

Hi

Andryukha
BREAK through ...

Everything happened on the Caucasian land.
We REMEMBER HER ODOR .............................
And the smell of foliage.
And the aftertaste.

[Alex 241]

Hi Lesh, thanks for the articles, rating-5 +, carry the diary

[Aleks tv]

Quote: Alex 241

Hi Lesh, thanks for the articles, rating-5 +, carry the diary

Sanya, my friend ...
My diary under the bottom of the AZ is hidden.
So reliable.
And under P-173 - a bag with rations.
Let's get there.

[Felix200970]

Quote: Ols76

T-72 survived the collapse of the USSR, so many years have passed and they are all being modernized instead of building a new one.

In some places, 64s will be upgraded. (Just 34 rock was left but on the monuments)

[svp67]

How smart should I be the person ordering in 2011, after all the local wars, an option for such an installation ???

Yes, apparently "helluva lot", SO to manage to "drink" some money ...
By the way, Alexey - installing a caterpillar "a, la T80" instead of the native one, with the same engine, is not the best option, it is more "stiff", which has a good effect on driving at high speeds, but increases the resistance to movement, which affects the increase in fuel consumption ... Interestingly, the T72B3 was "driven" to "full range" with one refueling ...

[Alekseev]

Quote: svp67

How smart should I be the person ordering in 2011, after all the local wars, an option for such an installation ???

An incompetent bastard sat in the posts ...
The author is a competent person, clearly outlined the picture.
The general idea of ​​the "budgetary" modernization is still clear: to install a thermal imager, to make it possible to use new ammunition, to install modern communications and dynamic protection. All. Not enough, of course, but if they did it wisely, efficiently, then you can put up with it.
But the commander’s devices (also not the most expensive, but perhaps the most important), this TKN is fucking, barbaric dynamic protection, no gratings, no side screens, like on Bshki ...
This zpu cave ...
The main thing is that there are good practices and ready-made solutions to all these issues, there is no desire to work with individual leaders. And there is no competence.
It’s time for the GBT to initiate a good thing, it’s just that ... tank troops.

[coralex]

In GS, they themselves do not know what they want. They kind of gave money, but they don’t know what to do with it. So such products come out. What is not sawn then goes to the army. And then the men there are tormented. It seems that in the General Staff scored on the ad. And mainly from culinary colleges.

[Vovka levka]

Quote: koralex

In GS, they themselves do not know what they want. They kind of gave money, but they don’t know what to do with it. So such products come out. What is not sawn then goes to the army. And then the men there are tormented. It seems that in the General Staff scored on the ad. And mainly from culinary colleges.

As I dressed my harness, and all dumb and dumb. And here is GS.

[duke]

some strange comments, Duc Serduchka and his Baba battalion were they really thinking about competent modernization, and even more so about the people who were “little green men” for them? They thought about their foreign accounts ... well, think about the old defense, holes in it, well, the crew will die, they will find others - they knew what they were doing, but how many mona they could have on one tank ... Now, if only this menistra, with a hare to put a boar into a tank and test its modernization by shelling, live, then he would have thought ten times what modernization is needed ... This manager will hiccup and burp for a long time ...

[Wal]

And where does GS?

[avt]

Just another plus for the sensible article!

[Chicot 1]

To the author - respect. I read both parts with great interest. +++ For the opinion of a practitioner is always twice as valuable ...

But this is the very so-called. "urban" modification of the T-72 presented at RAE-2013. The picture is clickable, large size ...

[newcomer]

thanks to the author for honesty and objectivity. and then, honestly, I'm tired of listening to hurray-patriotic tales about how the armor is strong and our tanks are fast ... and pouring diarrhea on "cardboard" "Abrams" and "Challengers" ...

[vladkavkaz]

Interestingly, the author strenuously accuses the General Staff, saying that it is such and not such a task.
And the author doesn’t know that, in general, the whole BTVT economy is in charge of such a hack office as the GABTU?
Is it any wonder that such decisions are made when those in the leadership are sitting there and you can’t allow a gun shot?
For example, a certain Teryukhov-thief from the time of the second Chechen, by the will of fate and patronage of the current head of this same GABTU, who holds a considerable post there.
Is it any wonder when, instead of a normal Tiger-type car, a Lynx was dragged along? And at the same time they sang the praises of it, what an amazing car?
Is it any wonder that the TIGER, INSTEAD OF THE 6th CLASS OF PROTECTION CLAIMED INTO THE FORCES, IS ONLY ONE THIRD?
Since everything is done in the country through the butt, but on TV and in the media in general, the crash of drums and howling fanfare, they say it’s good, is it worth it to be surprised at such wild decisions regarding the protection of T72, without any application of the experience of local conflicts?
And this, the lives of our soldiers, abandoned to please the Moloch profit of commerce in uniform ...

[Lopatov]

"Tiger" with the declared protection 6a still cannot be submitted for testing. And by the way, Shevchenko spoke about this.
And Teryukhov in what position did he sit? The surname is familiar.

[bask]

Quote: Spade

"Tiger" with the declared protection of 6a still cannot be submitted for testing

Tiger 6A (6th class of defense.) Has already passed all the tests.
Only, not the Ministry of Defense, the Ministry of Internal Affairs, is not going to buy it.

[kott]

And you can ask where and when this tiger was tested for undermining.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: kott

And you can ask where and when this tiger was tested for undermining.

I don't know the details, but there is a photo of the "Tiger" tests for detonation

[Lopatov]

You yourself see that the weight of explosives is for children, 600 grams in total. This is a test of protection against a grenade under the bottom or an anti-personnel mine.

[vladkavkaz]

Shovels (
If there are acquaintances in the GABTU, ask, they will say. Now, if you have not lied, this squalor in the akamedia of the General Staff, improves the skills for cutting the rollback, they prepare a change for themselves, "professionals" with the GABTU ...
The second, so to say a good friend, as he wrote a review on exercises in the Far East, when the howling fanfare and the tambourine battle about outsourcing overshadowed the mind, were forbidden to explicitly submit, forced to write that everything was okay ..
With regards to the Tigers with grade 3 instead of 6, ask where they were sent, and how they were quickly written off now.
Shevchenko ... A cool guy. The truth, according to the results of his past detail in one of the organisms of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, hiccuped in the consequences right up to 2006. Nevertheless, he tells something ...

[Lopatov]

Quote: vladkavkaz

With regards to the Tigers with grade 3 instead of 6, ask where they were sent, and how they were quickly written off now.

Because they are not needed in the army. Well, they have no place in the state. And they forced to buy, Deripaska’s hand was hairy to impossibility.

Quote: vladkavkaz

Shevchenko ... Cool guy.

I came across him only once once. I drove up so steep on an armored personnel carrier, asked what I needed. I said, he wrote down, in a week I got everything, including the battery.

[vladkavkaz]

Shovels.
I drove up to an armored personnel carrier and lo and behold, I had to make it happy, did the battery give IT all the memories of a gorgeous and wonderful guy named Sasha?
Is there no room for TIGER in the states?
Actually, who told you this? Serdyukov? This one, if only he could buy a Land Krauser and roll his ass. And why not use this Tiger instead of a pretty outdated UAZ, as a command vehicle with everything you need? (By the way, Mikhalkov, Putin rode on VIP TIGER, cool car
, with all the bells and whistles) Patrol-commandant? Escort of military convoys? The resource of armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles burn for escorting the convoy much more expensively, and what is this most embossed resource of a battalion in infantry fighting vehicles or armored personnel carriers, in Chechnya, is not familiar by hearsay.

[Lopatov]

Quote: vladkavkaz

I drove up to an armored personnel carrier and lo and behold, I had to make it happy, did the battery give IT all the memories of a gorgeous and wonderful guy named Sasha?

Yes. You can not understand.

Quote: vladkavkaz

Is there no room for TIGER in the states?
Actually, who told you this?

There is no place, and I myself know this very well. Is it possible to replace the UAZ commander’s, but it’s painfully curly-haired, around the city the ass of the brigade commander is carried on such an expensive device.

Quote: vladkavkaz

Patrol-curfew?

Not suitable, no protection against mines

Quote: vladkavkaz

Escort of military columns?

Better BTR

Quote: vladkavkaz

The resource of armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles burn on escorting a column much more expensively

The infantry fighting vehicles do not accompany the wheels, and the "tiger" is not capable of replacing the armored personnel carrier even here.

Quote: vladkavkaz

and what is this very battered resource of a battalion on an infantry fighting vehicle or an armored personnel carrier, in Chechnya, is familiar not by hearsay.

If you don’t change the car from the moment you leave Germany, and you don’t restore the resource, the result will be rotten without any convoy support.

[vladkavkaz]

Shovels.
All of your comments indicate that you, in spite of trying to look like a pro, are not.
"" I drove up on an armored personnel carrier and lo and behold, I must have made me happy, the battery gave - THIS is all the memories of a gorgeous, wonderful guy named Sasha?
Yes. You don’t understand. ”WHERE I don’t understand, especially when I was in the first company of the KMSR on an armored personnel carrier and I know perfectly well what a hassle it was with a battery that sat down at the wrong time, or a broken battery on combat, especially I don’t know, the perfectly organized work of SPPM in Lenin Park in Grozny, in January 1995.
"" "Quote: vladkavkaz
Is there no room for TIGER in the states?
Actually, who told you this?
There is no place, and I myself know very well. Unless the commander's UAZs are replaced, but it is painfully curly, this is to carry the brigade commander's ass around the city on such an expensive apparatus. "" "- again a complete manifestation of ignorance of where, how and why these machines are used, except for
Mandir (but not for pokatushek in the city, but to provide the commander in the performance of both combat and combat training missions), with the installation of a required communications complex.
"" "
Quote: vladkavkaz
Patrol-curfew?
Not suitable, no protection against mines

Quote: vladkavkaz
Escort of military columns?
Better APC "" "
Parses laughter from such interpretations.
An armored personnel carrier is designed to ensure infantry combat, rather than escorting convoys where there is no sense in it, there isn’t enough a tiger with NSVT and AGS, bulletproof armor, the same as on armored personnel carriers, maneuverability is better, operating costs are lower.
"" "Quote: vladkavkaz
The resource of armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles burn on escorting a column much more expensively
The infantry fighting vehicles do not accompany the wheels, and the "tiger" is not capable of replacing the armored personnel carrier even here.

Quote: vladkavkaz
and what is this very battered resource of a battalion on an infantry fighting vehicle or an armored personnel carrier, in Chechnya, is familiar not by hearsay.
If from the moment of withdrawal from Germany the cars are not changed, and the resource is not restored, then the result will be rotten without any convoy escort.
I very much laugh, literally from such a smugly ambitious statement, you would be very nonsense, for example, tell about 72 MSP 42 MSD, or 71 MSP of the same division, do you know what the difference is? One SME was on BTR-80, the second on the BMP, and you, in the past, the official officer in charge of technical support of the columns in the MSD, will you tell a joke about what and how was used and what was not used, and most importantly about the BTV in the years of production ??
My friend, don’t be so funny when you make such comments — what can you say about the BTR resource accompanied by the columns, when the KAMAZ, URAL resources in the OBMO did not have the same division and only when I was three times changed the whole vehicle of the OMO?

[Bad_gr]

Quote: vladkavkaz

With regards to the Tigers with grade 3 instead of 6, ask where they were sent, and how they were quickly written off now.

So the MO ordered the 3rd class, and already at Serdyukov the pritenzy was rolled out, why is it not the 6th. The militia ordered itself the 5th - and received it. By the way, something is not heard from them complaints about cars.
And about 3rd grade, if I am not mistaken in this photo, it is he who is now on the conveyor belt and is being produced according to the schedule.

"The Arzamas Machine-Building Plant fulfilled its obligations to supply finished products with high quality and on time. In October, 148 armored vehicles were sent to the customer. This is reported by the amz.ru website."
http://warfiles.ru/show-42333-proizvoditeli-btrov-i-tigrov-v-oktyabre-otpravili-
zakazchiku-148-bronemashin.html

[vladkavkaz]

Bad_gr
Of course, of course, I took everything from the ceiling and gave out something that was not there, it’s a trouble, infa from those who know exactly what they are saying.
And the fact that ARZAMAS is able to produce cool equipment, no one doubts, if you still press on the management so that the price is not torn into space heights ..

[Aleks tv]

Quote: vladkavkaz

Interestingly, the author strenuously accuses the General Staff, saying that it is such and not such a task.
And the author doesn’t know that, in general, the whole BTVT economy is in charge of such a hack office as the GABTU?

Read the first part of the article, there is little in the beginning.
And GABTU does not have such a big role. They determine TTZ based Doctrineswritten by GSH. And modernization before mass production GSH too.

Quote: vladkavkaz

Is it any wonder that such decisions are made when those in the leadership are sitting there and you can’t allow a gun shot?

There is such a letter.
My eyelid is still twitching when I say "GABTU".
After all, they were not only engaged in theory, but also often "desired" their favorite personnel when checking linear parts.
I remember how I once got bogged down with such a check on the "shtatka" together with the BP control.
Moreover, the bespectacled colonel from the Arbat district did not "notice" the shooting of my company at the "exc" at all, he was outraged that when loading the BC, the crews turned on the "hand" on the commander's console, and not on the gunner's console (as required by the INSTRUCTIONS!).
To my justification of running around too much and violating the loading algorithm (many do so in parts), a lot has been said about my personality ...
He grumbled, and I looked at his clean little hands.
Different people in GABTU.

[papik09]

There are enough devils everywhere, unfortunately

[Eugeniy_369]

Quote: Aleks tv

He grumbled, and I looked at his clean little hands.
Different people in GABTU.

The army is not on Mars .... everything in the country is in the army
About the article .... except for the word well done! nothing more to say, but I think and do not
Wrote and illustrated so that even a child will understand

[vladkavkaz]

Aleks tv
Yes, I agree, different, very different.
But unfortunately, now, there are much more Arbat slickers than those to whom any company commander after checking will say thank you, and will not twitch an eye and remember it with a "kind, quiet" word.

[Orakul2000]

Alex, I have a different question. I had to crawl through Western modern tank models, with a sophisticated electronic nightie, and according to their specialists, the sizes of the crew’s armored capsule were calculated by the tank designers in such a way that the ergonomics and convenience of the crew would not be disturbed with further upgrades (They even set the air conditioner, since the electronics themselves generate a lot of heat during operation), which affects the crew’s fatigue. How did you solve the situation in this project? After all, crew fatigue is also a rather important aspect during multi-day military operations and exercises?

[Aleks tv]

Quote: Orakul2000

In my life I had to climb western modern tank models,

Good day, Boris.

And on the contrary, I haven’t been in foreign countries.
Perhaps I will visit and lead Leo2 (in Germany at one exhibition), there are plans.

Quote: Orakul2000

according to their specialists, the dimensions of the armored capsule of the crew by tank designers were calculated in such a way that would be possible with further upgrades,

In fact, normal armored capsules are not yet available on production vehicles.

Quote: Orakul2000

they installed the air conditioner, since the electronics themselves generate a lot of heat during operation), which affects the crew’s fatigue. How did you solve the situation in this project? After all, crew fatigue is also a rather important aspect during multi-day military operations and exercises?

Alas, in our cars (for the Russian Federation), condos do not bet. There is no operational experience.
As for heating from electronics, I will not say that this is a problem on the T-72B (only when the 1K-13 is running). Perhaps the situation on the T-80 is more complicated, this should be clarified with the "GTDs". The heat is mainly from the ambient temperature and the heating of the armor itself.

Here, of course .... ahem, problems. At first, as you dive under the armor, there is really NOTHING to breathe and EVERYTHING is hot. The air is "harder" and "heavier" than in a sauna. Then you get used to it. Worse - when you get out ...
Yes, not sugar. There is such a letter, but it is quite bearable, there are worse things.

[Lopatov]

ZPU in the current version does not make sense at all. If there is an urgent need to shoot at air targets, then a radar sight is needed. If exclusively on the ground, preferably remotely controlled combat module

[svp67]

Quote: Spade

ZPU in the current version does not make sense at all. If there is an urgent need to shoot at air targets, then a radar sight is needed. If exclusively on the ground, preferably remotely controlled combat module

The question is controversial ... and of course now the value as a ZPU is low, although UAVs are quite suitable for dealing with light UAVs ... and even for fighting ground-based ones, STILL HOW! And of course, such an installation should be of a "closed type" and it is not necessary to introduce a radar, it is enough to work out the thermal imaging + television guidance channel ...

[Lopatov]

Quote: svp67

The issue is debatable ... and of course, now the value as an anti-theft system is low, although UAVs are quite suitable for fighting lungs.

It will not work. A lead is required. And it’s simpler and cheaper than the RL sight.

Quote: svp67

... and so for the fight against terrestrial, so much else !!!

And here we need a remotely controlled one, something like the Belarusian "Adunk", which will not only improve the safety of the tank commander, but also significantly relieve him of the load due to the introduced automation functions. The commander can only mark the target or sector, the module will do the rest.

[svp67]

Quote: Spade

The commander can only mark the target

Such a function has long been able to perform the tank's fire control system, on ours starting with the T64B, so I don’t see anything complicated here, as well as the possibility of adapting such a system to combat air targets.
But I am categorically against the radar, the tank should be as "invisible" as possible ... Why don't I really like "Arena", not much because it is dangerous for my own troops, it also "shines" in all directions, " inviting "shells with homing heads ...

[Lopatov]

Quote: svp67

Such a function has long been able to perform the MSA of the tank, on ours starting with T64B

Not really like that. There, not only the ACS stands. I can search for a video where Belarusians NSVTshkami write on the billboards the name of their company. You can not only fire at marked targets in a given sequence. You can specify the sector that will be fired at the same density. You can replace NSVT with AG directly in the field.
And let the tank gun control system do its job.

Quote: svp67

But I am categorically against the radar, the tank should be as "invisible" as possible ...

This is not a locator. If the tank has TNA, then there is a Doppler track sensor. Which is no different from the Doppler speed sensor included in the radar sight. The sight does not detect air targets. It measures the speed of already detected and introduces lead.

[svp67]

Quote: Spade

If the tank has TNA, then there is a Doppler track sensor.

in TNA (tank navigation equipment) only gyroscopes and sensors (counters) of the path of some "Doppler ..."
Than the South Koreans were very surprised, who for a long time could not believe that such a thing was possible, with SUCH a small error. They "drove" the T80UK for a long time, checking the TNA readings with the "DZhiPiRiS" indicators ... And they were forced to admit that the Russians succeeded ...

[Lopatov]

Quote: svp67

TNA (tank navigation equipment) uses only gyroscopes and track sensors (counters)

Well ... Two track sensors, Doppler and mechanical. I always thought that she was normal on tanks. And then, it turns out, it was artificially rude?

Quote: svp67

What were very surprised by the South Koreans, who for a long time could not believe what was possible, with such a small error.

As one of our teachers used to say, TNA is like a beautiful girl, you need to take care of it for a long time and constantly. Then the coordinates will give exact.

[Aleks tv]

Quote: Spade

I always thought that she was normal on tanks. And then, it turns out, it was artificially rude?

Which have...

The path counter is finally a "funny" thing in the troops.
The "delta D" mode, which introduces into the sight of the amendments about the distance traveled by the tank itself by a mechanical method, is not particularly favored among the troops and ... rarely used - it only interferes.

Moreover, "Switch on delta D" means "Switch on the Fool" in tank forces.

[Lopatov]

It is necessary to verify it, to drive on the bases. I remember that the scout was screwed up, and then, for a week, he was busy with the chief artillery chief with their BRM-1K and BRDMmmi.

I was joking right now, the new TNA-4-3 and TNA-M equipment will already be equipped with Doppler sensors, but not with flat antennas, as before in artillery KShM, but with cylindrical ones.

By the way, there is another interesting thing surfaced, I quote:

Currently, on the basis of the Kapustnik-B integrated automated artillery fire control system, an automated fire and maneuver control system for a tank battalion has been developed and tested, which will be installed on command tanks. According to experts, this system will increase the combat effectiveness of a tank unit by two to four times.

Have you heard anything about this?

[Aleks tv]

Quote: Spade

Have you heard anything about this?

I didn’t feel it myself.
But I heard from the ear that they want to register this artillery system in tank units.
It certainly will not hurt the TB battalion.
The only question is, place it in a tank or in a separate car?
Difficult to answer.

[Lopatov]

Most likely, as in artillery, the main "brains" will be in the command staff of the chief of staff.

[Alekseev]

Quote: svp67

in TNA (tank navigation equipment) only gyroscopes and sensors (counters) of the path of some "Doppler ..."

But it works for sure!
In any case, much more accurate than the map and compass.
there would still be an electronic tablet, instead of mechanics, to combine, so to speak, with modern realities.
It’s a pity that they rarely used it to the full. many kraskoms simply stupidly, easier, they say, ask in the village how to deal with TNA ...

[marshes]

Both articles are not bad. I hope that our management will take note.
And here is not much about our modernization. Http://gurkhan.blogspot.com/2012/05/72_04.html
In Astana in May, Cadex 2014 will be held, we can see something new.

[Jeka]

Due to the lobbying of the T-72 for its modernizations and descendants, the excellent T-80U tank was left out of work, in terms of its protection it is better than the T-90A. There is also an interesting modification of the T-80UM1 "Bars"

[svp67]

Quote: wih

the T-80U tank was left out of work, in terms of protection it is better than the T-90A.

In its old form, the T80U is no better than the T90A, but here is what went to replace it ... especially Object 291, then YES ...

[Thunderbolt]

And I served on the “object 832.” Do you think I’m at least a little Tankman?)

[Alekseev]

Quote: wih

Due to the lobbying of the T-72 for its modernizations and descendants, the excellent T-80U tank remained out of work

If you could find a way for the GTE to stop eating kerosene "like a bull's slop", and to make it cheaper and more maintainable, then, undoubtedly having its own advantages, the GTD-1250 would take the place of a diesel engine in MBT.
But ..., the time has not yet come for a helicopter engine to displace purely tank power units on the ground. In the future may be ...

[Abracadabra]

Well, it seems, with the latest GTD-1250 engine, it was possible to make the T-80U more economical, but I believe the problem is that they have lost the ability to make and maintain such engines. There is another good Soviet tank, the T-80UD, with the 6TD-1 which the Ukrainians are developing in full and not even bad at all. In my opinion, the whole problem is in the influence of UVZ, everything from them cannot be put on Russian tanks, except for such things as thermal imagers, which UVZ cannot do. UVZ is still not able to make a modern transmission and engine, even the most sophisticated T-90MS demonstrator rides a forced B-92 (93) and a T-72 transmission, which migrated from the T-54 .. Therefore, what kind of T- 80U ?? Yes, even though it will be 3 times better, but if the product is not from UVZ, then no way! But they could have provided the army with relatively modern and reliable tanks for a long time. How many T-80 rots under the Russian sky ?! What are the residents of Omsk now inventing, is the design bureau preserved? Why not take from the Ukrainians a modernized transmission that allows reverse travel up to 30 km / h, as on all modern tanks (all UVZ products are not faster than 5 km / h), plus a 6TD-2 engine? Now on this basis (modernized T-80 with 6TD-2 + transmission) to put the already tested concept of the ob640 tower (Black Eagle) and its further development "Burlak", that is, with AZ in the rear of the tower + panoramic sight for the commander, the same Pine -U, just not cut down, like the T-72B3, ZPU with channel output to the commander's monitor, + DZ "Relic", if it saves from tandem and armor-piercing. Sufficient protection by blocking all weak zones of the remote sensing + grating. This is how I see a possible, effective modernization of Russian tanks, it would be feasible if first of all we thought about the survival of the crew and combat effectiveness (the absence of a panoramic stabilized periscope at the commander of the main tank of Russia, this is sabotage in my opinion). I wonder how much money has been given by the state to UVZ over the past 15 years? I suspect that a lot, a lot of billion $? Why do Ukrainians, Kharkiv citizens, without such funds, without spending the budget, make, in my opinion, tanks better than UVZ? Why haven't the authorities forced UVZ, or someone else, to cooperate with Ukraine?

[Bad_gr]

Quote: Abra Kadabra

even the most sophisticated T-90MS demonstrator drives a forced B-92 (93) and a T-72 transmission, which migrated from the T-54 ..

Why write nonsense? the T-54 has an ordinary 5-speed gearbox with synchronizers, the T-72 has 2 planetary boxes (each has its own side), the T-90ms has an automatic machine.

Quote: Abra Kadabra

How many T-80 rots under the Russian sky ?!

Is UVZ to blame for this?

Quote: Abra Kadabra

What are the Omsk inventing now, has the design bureau been preserved?

It is part of the UVZ corporation; they are engaged in repair and special equipment.

Quote: Abra Kadabra

to deliver the already tested concept of the ob640 tower (Black Eagle) and its further development "Burlak",

"Burlak" could not be brought to a working sample.

Quote: Abra Kadabra

I wonder how much over the past 15 years, the XNUMXth state gave UVZ money?

These data can be found on the official website of UVZ. Incidentally, the main profit of the corporation from civilian products, then, perhaps, from export contracts. Talking about big money from MO against this background is not even funny.

Quote: Abra Kadabra

Why has the government still not forced UVZ, or anyone else, to cooperate with Ukraine?

In what field ? Recently, the same UVZ for their cars began to take metal from the Chinese instead of Ukrainian, as the quality is higher.

[Walker1975]

For many years, Soviet tank forces were ruined by the fact that every infection, trying to push through its model, competed in the fight of horseshoe boys, and as a result: several models of main tanks at the same time, cost overruns, super modernization with 80s instruments and the loss of a number of promising developments

[Kars]

I liked the review. Would anyone who would have done the same on BM Bulat. The truth is ours (probably fortunately) has no combat experience. On the Bulat, by the way, they didn’t put a thermal imaging panorama (no money) By the way, 52 myion rubles is about 1.5 million dollars?

As a spy question - did you even see BPS Lead 2 in the linear parts? And is there a program in the ballistic computer (but is it by the way?) For shooting it?

[svp67]

Quote: Kars

As an espionage question - have you even seen BPS Lead 2 in linear parts?

Yes, anyone can see them ... it's another matter to "touch" ...

[Kars]

Quote: svp67

Yes, anyone can see them.

In the picture, yes.

Quote: svp67

it's another matter to "touch" ..

Yes, at least look not in the picture.

Quote: svp67

It is necessary to ask for a photo of the "switch, the choice of the type of projectile ..."

I can take a word

[svp67]

Quote: Kars

I can take a word

We must ask Alexei, he "worked out" this topic "coolly and thoroughly" ...

[Aleks tv]

Quote: Kars

As a spy question - did you even see BPS Lead 2 in the linear parts? And is there a program in the ballistic computer (but is it by the way?) For shooting it?

Quote: svp67

We must ask Alexei, he "worked out" this topic "coolly and thoroughly" ...

Andrey, Sergey, frankly speaking, I have not heard about the presence of "Lead" in the warehouses of RAV.
And I don’t think that they will answer my direct question.
I wouldn’t answer it myself if the info bar is on. And not all ordinary tankers know what RAV is in the warehouses.

And in practice, the use of BPS in the troops, Sergei will not lie like other tankers:
- Practice is almost zero. "Lomik" wears out the barrel very much.
Practical projectile for full-time training more often looks like a cumulative.

And in a real combat situation in the BC, they were also not common. There was simply no corresponding opponent. When the Czechs-1 were cumulative in BC.
Maybe someone else has a different experience.

It is better to ask about the BPS from the testers or ... military advisers and technicians who were in the "foreign" country, they often used them.

[Kars]

Quote: Aleks tv

saying i didn't hear about stock

I have been in warehouses. In Ukraine, they did not remain from the USSR. Although GSVG ammunition was taken to us at the time of withdrawal.

Quote: Aleks tv

- Practice is almost zero. "Lomik" wears out the barrel very much.

They brought me BPS with adolescence as a young man, although I, out of ignorance, thought that something was a rocket. And to his regret, he just ... clapped.
Now I’m trying to get it, but something doesn’t get. At least somewhere in bulk.

Quote: Aleks tv

that they will answer my direct question.

And what about the switch? The BPS network of increased power should have a trajectory different from Mango, and it should be entered into a ballistic computer, computer.

Or tanks in parts ... shoot ... and do they correct the installations?

[Aleks tv]

Quote: Kars

And what about the switch? The high power BPS network must have a trajectory different from Mango,

Andrey, I’ll clarify this question if possible.
If offhand, it seems there is no additional channel for Lead, it just has a direct shot range greater than conventional BPS.
But this is IMHO, you need to ask current practitioners.

Quote: Kars

Or tanks in parts ... shoot ... and do they correct the installations?

On the T-72 it always has been. The correction is calculated, introduced into the scope and sighting.
Now we shoot like "big" ones, all automatic.

[Kars]

cool movie on the Steel laid out. would find something like shelling T-72/80

[Alekseev]

Quote: Kars

Or tanks in parts ... shoot ... and do they correct the installations?

Throughout the "conscious" life of the tank troops, they shoot at them and adjust the settings themselves. There is a special spare parts kit for this case.
But here the process itself is significantly different on old tanks and tanks with modern SLAs.
On the latter, in addition to reconciling the zero aiming line, it is necessary to check the electric zero of the system using special devices, to correct the working out of the aiming angles and lateral lead for each type of a / c, the resolution zone of the shot, etc.
True, this is rarely done due to the fact that a new battle tank must be calibrated and adjusted from the factory, and for confident hits on target No. 12,12b at a range of 1500-1600m, which is typical for UUS and UKS, reconciliation and adjustment are enough machines of the combat training group in the old fashioned way. AND many have little literacy, although these adjustments are not very complicated.
They are afraid, true, that they would not do worse!

[Kars]

Quote: Alekseev

On the latter, in addition to reconciling the zero aiming line

If I honestly imagined something like that.
Here I have a slightly different question.
There are several types of BPS - I won’t look for ciphers - there are the Hairpin, Mango, Lead
Do they shoot just a common BPS, or each type shoot separately? Can it happen that in extreme cases there will be several types of BPS in the tank’s ammunition? Even hypothetically.

[Alekseev]

Quote: Kars

maybe in extreme cases, in the ammunition tank of the tank there will be several types of BPS

The differences in the flight path are not significant; at the ranges of the actual fire, they do not require adjustment of the development of the FCS of the aiming angles. Unlike, for example, O / F, they are also different, and even of the same model (they differ in weight and require, in a good way, sorting by weight)

[svp67]

Quote: Aleks tv

And in practice, the use of BPS in the troops, Sergei will not lie like other tankers:
- Practice is almost zero. "Lomik" wears out the barrel very much.
Practical projectile for full-time training more often looks like a cumulative.

I won’t let you lie, almost it is. Although there were exceptions ...
Alex, can you remember the "dark story" with the explosion of T72 during the shooting in Elana and the death of the crew? So, before that, we had been shooting with BOPS and KSami for almost a month, shooting "unnecessary" stocks of ammunition ... The cadets were also shooting. So that "explosion" of T72 could be directly connected with those of our shooting ...
And so for training shooters, three types of shell were usually used:
- "practical" COP
- "practical" OFS
- OFS with "temporary" fuse

[Aleks tv]

Quote: svp67

can you remember the "dark story" with the explosion of T72 at the shooting in Elana and the death of the crew? So, before that, we had been shooting with BOPS and KSami for almost a month, shooting "unnecessary" stocks of ammunition ... The cadets were also shooting. So that "explosion" of T72 could be directly connected with those of our shooting ...

2001 winter?
И cadets training too "unnecessary" BOPS shot?
Well, yes, they combined one with the other ...

After BOPS, we’ll deal with the barrel of Nana more carefully, with us the Zampotech himself personally checked the cleaning after a limited number of shots (I don’t remember exactly how many) and made new measurements of wear ...
It is very possible that they went too far with them.

Memory for the guys ...

[Aleks tv]

Quote: Aleks tv

Memory for the guys ...

Yes, I found it on the internet: November 2001.
...
Senior Sergeant MAXIM TUNEGIN,
Private OSIPENKO
Junior Sergeant KUZMIN
...

[svp67]

Quote: Aleks tv

2001 winter?
And training cadets, too, "unnecessary" BOPS shot?

Yes ...

[Bad_gr]

Alexey, good evening.

Quote: Aleks tv

"Lomik" wears out the barrel very much.

In new crowbars, the tail is much smaller than the diameter of the trunk, and only the coil touches the walls of the trunk. I think the barrel wear should be much lower than when shooting with old sub-caliber.

Quote: Aleks tv

And in a real combat situation in the BC, they were also not common.

They say that in Chechnya they shot at a five-story building at the end of the 4 entrance inclusively.
PS
In the first article, the maximum length of the BOPS and the AZ under them is 640 mm. In terms of ammunition and ammunition, the 740mm figure has come across more than once.

[svp67]

Quote: Bad_gr

In new crowbars, the tail is much smaller than the diameter of the trunk, and only the coil touches the walls of the trunk. I think the barrel wear should be much lower than when shooting with old sub-caliber.

It is this "coil" that "carries out" with each shot several milligrams of steel from the bore ... And the higher the speed, the faster the wear.

[Aleks tv]

Quote: Bad_gr

They say that in Chechnya they shot at a five-story building at the end of the 4 entrance inclusively.
PS

What's the point?
Therefore, they were further loaded with OF.
Each theater has its own.

Good evening, Vladimir.
Glad to see you.

Quote: Bad_gr

and only the reel touches the walls of the barrel.

Only this "coil" leaves the bore at a speedy speed. She also "collects" the trunk cover.

Quote: Bad_gr

maximum length of BOPS and AZ under them in 640mm. Both the ammunition and the AZ more than once came across the number 740mm.

I also came across this figure "740" in the calculations ...
There is a great desire to measure the conveyor AZ with tape measure ...
But I'm not at odds with math.
On modernization of the AZ - the biggest problems.

[ramsi]

Quote: Aleks tv

Quote: Bad_gr

and only the reel touches the walls of the barrel.

Only this "coil" leaves the bore at a speedy speed. She also "collects" the trunk cover.

Tell me, but on the master device there are no attempts to use a gas suspension ...- any holes on the end, grooves, reverse cone on the back side?

[svp67]

Quote: Bad_gr

They say that in Chechnya they shot at a five-story building at the end of the 4 entrance inclusively.

Alas, it more depended on where they fell and what they were building from, there were cases when they went to the "ricochet" ...
And one of my comrades, an "Afghan", told how they first tried to knock the "spirits" out of an ancient fortress ...
Initially, they decided to make a break in the wall, well, where they say they do not wait, and the tanks were assigned the role of "master key". So into this wall a tank platoon, my friend, and these are three T62s, planted a dozen shells from each barrel, a total of about thirty shells and NOTHING ... "Like cotton wool" - the words of a comrade, and if the OFS fired first, then then tried to pry open the wall with BPSs ... I had to "knock on the gate" "impolite ...", well, things went more fun for them, after the first volley - one half of the gate "blew away like the wind", after the second - the second ... then the infantry quickly "cleaned up" the "economy". Let's go to see where three dozen shells "disappeared", looked, "found" and understood, the whole point is in the construction of the fortress wall ... It was a complex multi-layer structure of brick partitions between which clay was rammed, and this whole structure had a thickness not less than five meters ...

[uwzek]

Unfortunately, the author of the article was mistaken when he said about installing the fifth modification of the 72A2M gun on the modernized T-46 (the 2A46M-4 variant is installed, as on the T-90). Therefore, the discussion about the use of newer BPS does not make sense.

[Aleks tv]

Quote: uwzek

option 2A46M-4 is installed

Curious.
It would be nice to talk about it and justify.

[Alekseev]

Quote: svp67

And is there a program in the ballistic calculator (and by the way is it?) For shooting it?

That is why BOPS is especially valuable, which is little sensitive to various kinds of programs, its ballistics is simple and does not require control. His motto is that there is no method against scrap!
True, the barrel of the tank gun is very sensitive to wear and tear ... pressure in it up to 7000 atm happens.
Therefore, they are not shot in the troops. only in special cases (experimental exercises, shows, etc.)

[svp67]

Quote: Kars

And is there a program in the ballistic calculator (and by the way is it?) For shooting it?

It is necessary to ask for a photo of the "switch, the choice of the type of projectile ..."
Here's how on the T90, on the right is the switch block for the mode of operation and the selection of ammunition.

[Alex 241]

[Center]

[ramsi]

sorry guys, but such a profane question: if the armor penetration of the BPS depends on the length of the arrow, and it is limited by a separate charge, then why not make a composite rod? True, then the charge is not common ... but in principle?

[Aleks tv]

Quote: ramsi

if the BPSA armor penetration depends on the length of the boom, and it is limited by a separate charge, then why not make a composite rod? True, then the charge is not common ... but in principle?

Igor, how is it possible to make a crowbar flying at a tremendous speed, compound? No way.

And the propellant for dispersal in him is already in two parts (in the charge and the burning cylinder of the projectile itself), in contrast to high-explosive fragmentation and cumulative (in them gunpowder is only in charges).

This topic is very interesting, has already been discussed. Hope someone writes in detail.

Photo: separate BPS shot
1. Burning sleeve, 2. Core, 3. Combustible cylinder with a core inside.

[ramsi]

this is exactly how I imagined it - a core protruding outward is also installed in the burning sleeve and the shank of the first "snapped" into the "open" in the bottom of the projectile, the plumage is transferred to the core in the sleeve ... The special strength of the connection, as I understand it, is not needed - sufficient weight with small diameter

[svp67]

Quote: Aleks tv

Igor, how is it possible to make a crowbar flying at a tremendous speed, compound? No way.

Why not? Technically possible, but "the game is not worth the candle", it is very difficult and it is not a fact that it will work as it should ...

[Alex 241]

The guys came in late, I have such an amateur proposal, just don’t throw yourself in slippers, but what if you install an N-26A type piezoezzer in the head part, and something like an RDTT type, and at least a PK-3m1 pyro cartridge (effort 5 tons) for giving acceleration when touching the armor. I understand that the external ballistics are counted, but all the same .........

[svp67]

Quote: Alex 241

Guys came late, I have such an amateur offer, just don’t rush with slippers

They went into the wrong room, dear, they throw boots here ...
Good night, Alex. Can not sleep?

Quote: Alex 241

to install a piezoezavitel like N-26A, and in the tail, something like a solid propellant, and at least a PK-3m1 squib (force 5 tons) to give acceleration when touching the armor.

Piezo-bomber is a well-known thing for us, it is installed in the Constitutional Court, but here we will install it, and then what, how to carry out the executive circuit? Drill a hole through the entire body? It’s quite troublesome, so you need to drill exactly through the center, otherwise an imbalance will arise, which, when the projectile moves towards the target, will reduce its accuracy. And a tracer is already installed in the tail of the projectile so that it would be possible to correct the shooting ... Although it was an interesting idea, it always interested me why it didn’t want to establish the type of an additional acceleration engine, apparently, that didn’t work out .. .

[Alex 241]

Sergey understood, I'll go get drunk

Quote: svp67

Can not sleep?

I recently arrived from work.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: svp67

why they don’t want to establish a type - an additional acceleration engine, apparently

The Israelis have such a development. But as I understand it, the increase in speed from the accelerator is not large. Is that compensated by the braking of the projectile on the air.

I heard that we have anti-tank grenade launchers with a kinetic (and not cumulative, as now) damaging element. Details about him in net did not find.

[Lopatov]

I think this will not add much speed.
It is much easier to create a hypersonic missile fired through the barrel. But BOPS will still be needed for firing at short range

[ramsi]

Yeah, faster than a cumulative jet, it still will not work

[Lopatov]

Cumulative charge is not put on hypersonic missiles. Either the penetrator, or the hull itself is enough. They have higher speeds than modern BOPS.

[ramsi]

I just wanted to say that such a "know-how" overclocking should begin, at least, a few meters before the target (so 10-15 minimum, it feels like)

[Lopatov]

They accelerate from the very beginning. If the memory does not change, 400 m is the minimum range, the maximum speed is 600 m. Then it is supported, unlike the BPS, the rocket does not lose speed.

[ramsi]

Lopatov, you are talking about a rocket, and we are talking about an armor-piercing shell accelerated in front of a target

[Lopatov]

This is nonsense, accelerated in front of the target. It is not possible to enter the range before the shot into the fuse, which means that some kind of radio fuse is needed that measures the distance to the target in flight in order to turn on the accelerator. It is painfully difficult, too susceptible to counteracting electronic warfare. Stations of interference with radio fuses appeared in the 80s of the last century.

[ramsi]

Yes, I agree, BOPS is simpler, more reliable and cheaper

[Kars]

Quote: Spade

It’s impossible to enter the range before the shot into the fuse,

Why doesn’t it get? If you already put the engine on the BOPS, then what is the problem with the programmable fuse? The Swedes even put shells on the 40 mm, and with programming while the projectile was in the gun.

[Lopatov]

An alien tank can move. So the required accuracy cannot be provided. Acceleration, after all, should not happen earlier and not later - all this significantly reduces the final speed. Such a "crowbar" by default will have a larger diameter, which means greater air resistance

Quote: Kars

Swedes even put projectiles on 40 mm, and with programming while the projectile is in the gun.

In the moment departure from the trunk. The fuse is simple, it counts the revolutions of the projectile around its axis.

And programming in the trunk is not particularly difficult. For example, implemented on our "Tornado-G"

[Kars]

Quote: Spade

Another tank can move.

It’s strange for ordinary BPS they don’t move? And here is the super-duper super-high-speed projectile.

Quote: Spade

At the time of departure from the trunk. Simple fuse

Very simple.

outfit PFHE Mk 2 (Proximity Fuze High Explosive)

Fragmentation projectile with a non-contact fuse Mk 2 and a body containing ready-made striking elements (GGE). Intended for the destruction of aircraft, helicopters, cruise missiles and surface ships. When a shell explodes, more than 2400 killer fragments are formed. Experiments have shown that a helicopter propeller blade can be destroyed when a projectile is detonated at a distance of 0,5 m from it. In an explosion at a distance of 0,4 m, the probability of screw failure becomes very high.

The defeat of cruise missiles by shell fragments is achieved due to the defeat of the missile control unit. On average, ten hits of fragments in the projection of a rocket are enough for this purpose.

The Mk 2 detonator is equipped with a target selection device, which allows, for example, to distinguish a helicopter propeller when it protrudes slightly above the tops of trees and distinguish a surface target against the background of wave crests. In terms of safety, it meets the requirements of NATO standards (NATO STANAG) and the United States (US. MIL-STD 331 and 810), which ensures the introduction of two independent mechanical devices, as well as an electronic unit that enables the fuse to be fired at a distance of 300 m from the gun. The fuse is stable in a wide range of weather conditions, including tropical rain.

Projectile PFPPX (Proximity Fuze Prefragmented Programmable) (proximity fuse, pre-fabricated PE, programmable). The heaviest, most complex and expensive ammunition shell. The mass of the projectile is 975 g, the mass of the explosive charge is -120 g, the filling coefficient is 0,123. The explosives used are PBX (octogen / organic binder (90 / 10)) or octol (octogen / trinitrotoluene (78 / 22)). The shell of the shell contains 1100 ready-made striking elements (GGE) in the form of balls of tungsten alloy with a diameter of 3 mm (weight about 0,25 g). When a projectile explodes, also about 3000 fragments of natural crushing are formed, capable of piercing a duralumin shield with a thickness of 2 mm, installed at a distance of 1,5 m from the point of detonation. The greatest damaging effect when firing at an aircraft is observed in the case of a projectile detonation at a distance of 2,5 m from the target, and when firing at anti-ship missiles - up to 2 m

Quote: Spade

For example, implemented on our "Tornado-G"

After such articles, I personally am not particularly sure what is implemented there.

[Lopatov]

Quote: Kars

It’s strange for ordinary BPS they don’t move? And here is the super-duper super-high-speed projectile.

A conventional BOPS does not need to turn on the accelerator at an exact distance from the target. It will turn on earlier - the speed will drop due to air resistance, turn on later, and the shell will not have time to gain maximum speed.

Quote: Kars

Very simple.

Absolutely simple. Easier and nowhere.

The projectile can be very expensive to manufacture, and the fuse unpretentious. And vice versa. For example, Soviet remote tube fuses with high-precision mechanical clockwork are much more expensive than the shells themselves.

Quote: Kars

After such articles, I personally am not particularly sure what is implemented there.

Does your opinion have any significance?

[Kars]

Quote: Spade

A conventional BOPS does not need to turn on the accelerator at an exact distance from the target.

And how does it get?

Quote: Spade

It will turn on earlier - the speed will drop due to air resistance, turn on later, and the shell will not have time to gain maximum speed.

How much Km did you intend to shoot? 20? 40? How many seconds or MINUTES)) will pass from the moment of departure from the barrel to the destruction of the target?
at the same time there is no need to focus on the goal - it is quite realistic to start the engine at a fixed distance from the carrier TANK. And on the basis of this, the ballistic computer will calculate the meeting point (naturally, taking into account everything from the wind speed to the charge temperature)
And by the way, this whole dialogue (I don’t care about accelerators) is just to show that you are incompetent and taught you badly (you can practice wherever you go, nl here is knowledge)

Quote: Spade

Absolutely simple. Easier and nowhere.

Well, what do you prove?

Quote: Spade

For example, Soviet remote tube fuses with high-precision mechanical clockwork are much more expensive than the shells themselves.

It may well be, but this is not the situation. And as for the simple thing, you still bring the fact.

Quote: Spade

Does your opinion have any significance?

It’s the same as yours, although there’s nothing to be modest about;

[Lopatov]

Quote: Kars

And how does it get?

Yeah, it does. And sometimes, accordingly, does not fall

Quote: Kars

How much Km did you intend to shoot? 20? 40? How many seconds or MINUTES)) will pass from the moment of departure from the barrel to the destruction of the target?

In the US, the initial velocity drop is 70 m / s at 1 km. There will be approximately 2-3 times more.

Quote: Kars

however, there is no need to focus on the goal - it is quite realistic to start the engine at a fixed distance from the carrier TANK.

In this case, the inevitable eccentricity of the thrust will increase dispersion, and the inevitable increase in the diameter of the projectile will cause a larger drop in the initial velocity. That is, the miracle BOPS will be effective only to a small extent in range. You can’t shoot close; Cool stuff will come out.

Quote: Kars

Well, what do you prove?

I won’t even bother, you won’t understand.

Quote: Kars

It’s the same as yours, although there’s nothing to be modest about;

Nobody's opinion matters. It is only one FACT that matters - the system of induction input of fuse installations on Tornado-G is installed.

[Kars]

Quote: Spade

Yeah, it does. And sometimes, accordingly, does not fall

Yah.

Quote: Spade

In the US, the initial velocity drop is 70 m / s at 1 km. There will be approximately 2-3 times more.

Do Americans shoot BPS with accelerators? And this is not the answer to a direct question.

Quote: Spade

In this case, the inevitable eccentricity of the thrust will increase dispersion, and the inevitable increase in the diameter of the projectile

Why are you writing this? This is to the fact that the enemy’s tank HOW you deigned to make discoveries can it move

Quote: Spade

That is, miracle BOPS will be effective only in small ranges

And the tank gun fires BOPs at what distances? 10? 20? km? or to 3-4 km? and then such distances because of the terrain are rare?

Quote: Spade

You can’t shoot close, you don’t have time to accelerate, you can’t get far too far — low speed and low accuracy. Cool stuff will come out.

How close is it? And how far is it?

Quote: Spade

I won’t even bother, you won’t understand.

But what is there to understand - as usual, you froze stupidity, and now you are mowing down the hose. How is it in the USSR for which art systems such simple fuses as in Sweden were used
PFHE Mk 2 (Proximity Fuze High Explosive)

Quote: Spade

It is only one FACT that matters - the system of induction input of fuse installations on Tornado-G is installed.

Is there a fact or a declaration of intent

[Lopatov]

That's it, Kars, out of habit, hacked a fool. The discussion became uninteresting.

[Kars]

Quote: Spade

That's it, Kars out of habit knocked out a fool

And you prove that it’s not you. I’ll get on one another write. This is a programmable, multi-mode fuse is a very simple thing. But the fact that the tank usually should shoot at moving targets was an opening for you)))

Quote: Spade

This is nonsense, accelerated in front of the target. It’s impossible to enter the range before the shot into the fuse,

)) and then there are fuses

Quote: Spade

The fuse is simple, it counts the revolutions of the projectile around its axis.

And programming in the trunk is not a particularly difficult task

[Lopatov]

Quote: Kars

And you prove that you are not.

Yes, just spit. It was a simple remote fuse. And you started to shake the fuse Mk 2, which, even dib..lu understandably, is a radio fuse.
Stop. Or maybe you really did not understand, did not understand?

Simple remote stands on PFPPX. He just stupidly counts his momentum.

Further continue to describe places where you or a fool cut, or really not in the subject?

[Kars]

Quote: Spade

It was a simple remote fuse

Who told you that?

Quote: Spade

This is nonsense, accelerated in front of the target. It’s not possible to enter the range before the shot into the fuse, so some kind of radio fuse measuring the distance to the target in flight is needed to turn on the accelerator.

You soldered the radio detonator here, even though you don’t need it, the carrier tank determines the distance to the target, and it takes into account the target’s movements, although this is not particularly difficult for hypersonic ammunition at a distance of 3 km.

Quote: Spade

And you started to shake the fuse Mk 2, which, even dib .. I understand, is a radio fuse

And what did you write about dol - tel?

Quote: Spade

Quote: Kars
Swedes even put projectiles on 40 mm, and with programming while the projectile is in the gun.
At the time of departure from the trunk. The fuse is simple, considers the speed of the projectile around its axis

And why are you writing this then?

Quote: Spade

Further continue to describe places where you or a fool cut, or really not in the subject?

Go on, go on.

Quote: Spade

Simple remote stands on PFPPX. He just stupidly counts his momentum

Is he very simple in your opinion?

Projectile PFPPX (Proximity Fuze Prefragmented Programmable) (proximity fuse, pre-fabricated PE, programmable). The heaviest, most complex and expensive ammunition shell. The mass of the projectile is 975 g, the mass of the explosive charge is -120 g, the filling coefficient is 0,123. The explosives used are PBX (octogen / organic binder (90 / 10)) or octol (octogen / trinitrotoluene (78 / 22)). The shell of the shell contains 1100 ready-made striking elements (GGE) in the form of balls of tungsten alloy with a diameter of 3 mm (weight about 0,25 g). When a projectile explodes, also about 3000 fragments of natural crushing are formed, capable of piercing a duralumin shield with a thickness of 2 mm, installed at a distance of 1,5 m from the point of detonation. The greatest damaging effect when firing at an aircraft is observed in the event of a projectile detonation at a distance of 2,5 m from the target, and when firing at anti-ship missiles - up to 2 m. 0-mm PFPPX projectile

The projectile fuse is programmable, i.e. can be set to one of six types of actions:
1) non-contact action, included only in the target area (air targets)
2) the same type of action with an increased direct hit priority (large air targets)
3) temporary (remote) action (small maneuverable and camouflaged ground and underwater targets)
4) contact (impact) action (ground and surface targets)

[Lopatov]

Quote: Kars

You soldered the radio detonator here, even though you don’t need it, the carrier tank determines the distance to the target, and it takes into account the target’s movements, although this is not particularly difficult for hypersonic ammunition at a distance of 3 km.

Answer a simple question without cutting a fool: Why would they need the Mk2 radio fuse if everything is so simple: the carrier will determine the speed of the target and introduce it into a simple remote fuse without such bells and whistles?

[Kars]

Quote: Spade

why then to them the Mk2 radio fuse if everything is so simple: the carrier will determine the speed of the target and introduce it into a simple remote fuse without such bells and whistles?

Well pretend to be a hose further.
For starters, firing is conducted, including for air targets that have a much higher speed than the TANK? Do you dare? Can you turn on the logic?
Secondly, the speed near 1000 m / s and the speed drop for this type of projectile (did you understand that they are not subcalibers at least?) Are significant. The explosion detonation function is also necessary, that is, a NON-CONTACT fuse.

But the fact itself - you first think before you write nonsense.

Quote: Spade

This is nonsense, accelerated in front of the target. It’s impossible to enter the range before the shot into the fuse,

Quote: Kars

You soldered the radio detonator here, even though you don’t need it, the carrier tank determines the distance to the target, and it takes into account the movement of the target, although for hypersonic ammunition at a distance of 3 km it’s not particularly difficult

[Lopatov]

Quote: Kars

Well pretend to be a hose further.

Is I pretending to be a hose?
You did not answer the simplest question: why do you need a radio fuse instead of a simple remote like AHEAD. Fewer speeds? So what? The laser range finder determines high speeds much more accurately.

Quote: Kars

Secondly, the speed is about 1000 m / s and the speed drop for this type of projectile (did you understand that they are not sub-calibers at least?) Is significant.

AND? Do you think that a projectile with an accelerating engine will be the diameter of a standard "crowbar"? Oh, how everything is running ... What kind of superfuel must it be for an accelerator to be the size of a tracer? Such a projectile will be caliber. With all that it implies. Moreover, there is no separation in flight, the accuracy will then become such that the meaning of the projectile will disappear altogether.

Well, and who is pretending to be a hose here?

[Kars]

Quote: Spade

You did not answer the simplest question: why do you need a radio fuse instead of a simple remote like

................? for a SHARPED projectile and you don’t need a RADIO-EXPLOSIVER? (for hoses - it significantly increases the efficiency, and there are shells and it’s easier, but what’s the use of it?) you are not just Tu-Po Y you K-low n from the movie Dumb and Dumber))))

Quote: Spade

AND? Do you think that a projectile with an accelerating engine will be the diameter of a standard "crowbar"?

I don’t know. But why not? He shouldn’t accelerate from scratch, but add impulse.

Quote: Spade

Oh, how everything is running.

It’s not started with the topa, but it's over. The brains atrophied, one crammed one remained.

Quote: Spade

Such a projectile will be a caliber

Where did you get? At least someone I ask)))

Quote: Spade

Well, and who is pretending to be a hose here?

I admit you are not pretending, you really are.

Quote: Kars

The projectile fuse is programmable, i.e. can be set to one of six types of actions:
1) non-contact action, included only in the target area (air targets)
2) the same type of action with an increased direct hit priority (large air targets)
3) temporary (remote) action (small maneuverable and camouflaged ground and underwater targets)
4) contact (shock) action (ground and surface targets)

The color for the hoses is highlighted that your question is not interesting for the Swedes.))))

[Lopatov]

Quote: Kars

Are you really TU-POI? For a SHARPED projectile and you don’t need a RADIO Blaster? Aren't you just Tu-Po Y you K-low from the movie Dumb and Dumber))))

I wonder if you yourself understood what you wrote? Or so, a cry from the heart? The fact called "Blaster Mk2" remains a fact regardless of hysterics.

Quote: Kars

I don’t know. But why not?

But because not. Investing in the size of a standard cumulative projectile will already be a huge achievement.

Quote: Kars

Where did you get? At least someone I ask)))

Common sense. A solid-fuel engine capable of accelerating the penetrator to such speeds will have a clearly larger size than a scrap tracer

Quote: Kars

The color for the hoses is highlighted that your question is not interesting for the Swedes.))))

You just don’t know how to read.
The first option is undermining according to the radio fuse (let it be known to you, they all turn on in the target area.
Option two - a radio fuse only if the fuse does not work
Option three - the radio fuse does not turn on, only remote detonation.
Fourth option - only fuse, radio and remote do not turn on
The fifth option is shock with deceleration. Undermining is made after breaking through an obstacle

Sometimes translate copy-paste into Russian so as not to look ridiculous. And then I look at you, incomprehensible phrases directly hypnotize. Throw out, not understanding their meaning.

[Kars]

Quote: Spade

Interestingly, you yourself understood what you wrote?

Of course I did.

Quote: Spade

"Fuse Mk2" remains a fact regardless of hysterics.

And what did someone argue? For that matter, in our question we need only one fact

Quote: Kars

The inclusion of non-contact action only when approaching the target area is ensured by the calculation and introduction of flight time into the fuse to the front of the target area.

In our case, this will be the launch of the accelerator.

Quote: Spade

But because not. Investing in the size of a standard cumulative projectile will already be a huge achievement.

Yes, you are an amazingly strange person. Argumentation because no)))

Quote: Spade

Common sense. A solid-fuel engine capable of accelerating the penetrator to such speeds will have a clearly larger size than a scrap tracer

To what speeds? Do you need so much to add 100-300 m / s?

Quote: Spade

You just don’t know how to read.

You just do not know how to think)))

Quote: Spade

Sometimes translate copy-paste into Russian, so as not to look funny

Well, these questions are not for me, but for the magazine Tech and Armament.
http://www.plam.ru/transportavi/tehnika_i_vooruzhenie_2001_09/p3.php

Quote: Spade

Throw out, not understanding their meaning.

Dodge, dodge - one thing is that you puff so much, and getting out already proves that you are disgraced (however, as usual)
highlight pearls

Quote: Spade

This is nonsense, accelerated in front of the target. It’s not possible to enter the range before the shot into the fuse, so some kind of radio fuse measuring the distance to the target in flight is needed to turn on the accelerator. It hurts hard

Quote: Spade

Quote: Kars
Swedes even put projectiles on 40 mm, and with programming while the projectile is in the gun.
At the time of departure from the trunk. The fuse is simple, it counts the revolutions of the projectile around its axis.

And programming in the trunk is not particularly difficult. For example, implemented on our "Tornado-G"

Quote: Spade

Another tank can move.

[Lopatov]

Again, the inclusion of a fool and getting into insignificant details went. What real facts do we have? Correctly. Even for fragmentation projectile, which can cause damage to the target even when a gap near it, they considered it necessary fuse with a radar sensor. And the projectile we are talking about needs a lot more accuracy, right?

Quote: Kars

Well, these questions are not for me, but for the magazine Tech and Armament.

Read still need to understand. And some have big problems with this.

Quote: Spade

This is nonsense, accelerated in front of the target. To enter into the fuse range before the shot does not work

Fact. Entering data before firing does not give the necessary accuracy

Quote: Spade

At the time of departure from the trunk.

Fact. It is considered. that it will increase security

Quote: Spade

The fuse is simple, it counts the revolutions of the projectile around its axis.

Fact. They refuse complex temporary fuses requiring an adjustment for the deviation of the initial speed, preferring fuses that count the speed of the projectile around its axis. Which, due to the low price and small size, even put on 25 mm grenades

Quote: Kars

To what speeds? Do you need so much to add 100-300 m / s?

Look at the ATGM boosters, you’ll understand.

Will you have something else so "thoughtful"?

[Kars]

Quote: Spade

Correctly. Even for a fragmentation projectile that could cause damage to a target even if it bursts near it, they considered it necessary to use a fuse with a radar sensor

You won’t spoil the porridge with oil. In fact, you completely screwed up.

Quote: Spade

This is nonsense, accelerated in front of the target. It’s not possible to enter the range before the shot into the fuse, so some kind of radio fuse measuring the distance to the target in flight is needed to turn on the accelerator. It hurts hard

)))

Quote: Spade

Read still need to understand. And some have big problems with this.

You are a great proof of this.

Quote: Spade

Fact. It is considered. that it will increase security

yes. But why is that phrase from YOU?

Quote: Spade

Fact. Entering data before firing does not give the necessary accuracy

Then how do BPS get at all? And what accuracy do you need if the trajectory is forgiven by the computer, taking into account the final acceleration? Which starts at a DETERMINED point of the trajectory of limes in advance. And do you still consider yourself an artilleryman?

Quote: Spade

Fact

The fact that something will become when you prove that the Swedish fuses are simple.

Quote: Spade

preferring fuses that count projectile revolutions around its axis.

By the way, where did you get this? Will you give me the link? (Naturally for a Swedish shell)

Quote: Spade

speed they refuse

Who by the way are they?

Quote: Spade

Look at the ATGM boosters- you will understand

I am amused. Look at the bottom nozzles of active-missile shells. Although I personally do not care. The question is in launching the accelerator, but the subtleties are another matter.

Quote: Spade

Will you have something else so "thoughtful"?

Well, you have to train you, maybe you’ll develop your thinking.

[Lopatov]

I’ll answer below.

[Kars]

Don’t worry, I will find.

[Kars]

Until the morning you can think. Maybe you’ll invent something))
This is for you to inspire))

[Kars]

5) shock armor-piercing action (ground and surface targets)
6) non-contact action The type of action (programming) for each projectile is set immediately before the shot using the PFP (Proximity Fuze Programmer) program unit, which continuously receives information from the fire control computer. If the shot is not fired, then the fuse installation is erased after a short time, and it can be programmed again.

The inclusion of non-contact action only when approaching the target area is ensured by the calculation and introduction of flight time into the fuse to the front of the target area. This ensures fuse protection from various types of electronic countermeasures and natural noise.

[Kars]

The projectile fuse is programmable, i.e. can be set to one of six types of actions:
1) non-contact action, included only in the target area (air targets)
2) the same type of action with an increased direct hit priority (large air targets)
3) temporary (remote) action (small maneuverable and camouflaged ground and underwater targets)
4) contact (impact) action (ground and surface targets)
5) shock armor-piercing action (ground and surface targets)
6) non-contact action The type of action (programming) for each projectile is set immediately before the shot using the PFP (Proximity Fuze Programmer) program unit, which continuously receives information from the fire control computer. If the shot is not fired, then the fuse installation is erased after a short time, and it can be programmed again.

[Alekseev]

Quote: ramsi

BPS armor penetration depends on the length of the boom,

The question is rather complicated (it is not without reason that research institutes deal with it ).
Armor penetration (including) rather depends not on the length of the "arrow", but on the specific load at the point of contact with the armor.
It is impossible to infinitely reduce the diameter of BOPs, increase the length, apply cores from depleted uranium, etc., in general, the problem is complex, and, at the present stage of progress, an increase in length is recognized as necessary.

[svp67]

Quote: Alekseev

Armor penetration (including) rather depends not on the length of the "arrow", but on the specific load at the point of contact with the armor.

Depends, so a longer projectile is not only heavier, but can also fly at a higher speed, features of the "feathered projectile"

[ramsi]

I’m all this to the fact that it would be possible to surpass the unitary charge in this parameter on a separate charge (in case of AZ) by this parameter

[Alekseev]

Quote: svp67

a longer projectile is not only heavier, but can also fly at a higher speed, features of the "feathered projectile"

I agree, no one has canceled aerodynamics yet. But it is unlikely that the new BOPS is heavier - a high initial speed is most important.

[Kars]

Quote: Alekseev

But hardly a new BOPS heavier

It will be (except Khlopotov no one is talking about Lead-2) necessarily more difficult.
The speed of the Soviet guns and so more than the German (which are on most modern MBT)

[ramsi]

therefore, if they do not increase the length, then with the same core material, you will have to increase the diameter; and a cone that is more elongated and of a smaller diameter pushes the air apart more easily, and for a longer boom the plumage will start earlier and better

[Abracadabra]

If you believe what they write, 1800m / s, then higher than DM-63 1750m / s. But if I’m not mistaken, then the problem of domestic BOPSs like Mango and Lead is a loss of speed, about 200m / s per 1000m, in comparison with the same Amer, or German, which lose 100-120m / s per 1000m.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: svp67

It is necessary to ask for a photo of the "switch, the choice of the type of projectile ..."

In T-90ms it looks like this

[svp67]

Quote: Bad_gr

In T-90ms it looks like this

Almost fantastic ...

[Aleks tv]

Quote: Bad_gr

In T-90ms it looks like this

Quote: svp67

Almost fantastic ...

Vladimir, Sergey ...
And I was always worried about the transition from "sighting" to "television" viewing.
Unusually.
The habit is needed in training and the development of the skill.
IMHO, of course.

[svp67]

Quote: Aleks tv

Unusually.
The habit is needed in training and the development of the skill.
IMHO, of course.

This is just hard for us "old men", and "youth" with his "computers" is just that ... Well, training is certainly necessary.

[ramsi]

I am far from young, but, in my opinion, the "sighting" survey should remain only auxiliary. You can then sit straight, no need to spin (the camera is spinning), but rather a large multiscreen from four cameras; jabbed a finger - you can zoom in, zoom out and full screen; the camera crashed - leaned out, stuck a spare into the connector; and it will be cheaper ...

[Lopatov]

Exercise machines are not a problem. It would be a desire.

[Kars]

Quote: svp67

Almost fantastic ...

interesting and then remember how neighing with electronic filling Leclerc? and now one to one.

[Patton5]

Question, can you work with gloves on the screen? Even the interface is too small ....

[Aleks tv]

Quote: svp67

It is necessary to ask for a photo of the "switch, the choice of the type of projectile ..."

Sergey, just now I thought to revise the photo on the subject of this issue:
In the first part of the article, photo # 22 "The control panel of the commander of the" Double "mode. This is the control panel of Sosny-U itself. 23 photos confirm this.
B, K, O, P, U.
Everything. Nothing new, still.
TPD-K1 has the same old way.

[svp67]

Quote: Aleks tv

Everything. Nothing new, still.

This is frustrating. It was quite possible, even with such a decision on the layout, instead of the TPD-K1, to install at least the good old 1G42, or better 1G45, with its subsystems, the fire capabilities of the tank would have increased, but it turns out that if the "Sosny ", KUV no longer works, and it is better to equip the commander's workplace ...

[Patton5]

Kars and you do not want to try? There is a lot of information on the network, you are in the subject ... it would be great

[Kars]

I am not a tanker.

[Larus]

Find those who received IT, put them in a tank and shoot, since they think (is) that it is safe. After they refuse (they didn’t do it for themselves), deprive them of their ranks and services for such acceptance and undermining the country's defenses!

[kirpich]

Mdaa ... I read both parts. Before that, I thought that / Order in the tank troops /, but no, it turns out there is no order, but there is the usual fraud, with drumming and roaring timpani.
It’s interesting if, in general, single-model tanks competed in the first biathlon, what will happen when foreign equipment is allowed for subsequent biathlon? Something is getting alarming.

[Patton5]

If they are on the drill and sell it, it will be a push in the ass, everyone will objectively see what the T-72 is capable of ... But it seems to me that they will put up some kind of T-90ms, with a super trained crew, the prestige of the country after all. In short, they will arrange another window dressing for "urapatriots that have no analogues" ..... I would very much like to be wrong
а

[Zhenya]

The author is well done! Indeed, the t-72 has outlived its time and bet on a tank that is 40 years old - it just doesn’t give a damn about the lives of guys. Armata is still MYTH and it is necessary to rely on t-90cm, which will somehow update the fleet of old cars.

[svp67]

Quote: Marrying

The author is well done!

I do not argue, but only SUPPORT !!!

Quote: Marrying

Indeed, t-72 has outlived its time and bet on a tank that is 40 years old - it just does not give a damn about the lives of guys.

These tanks, almost a dozen thousand ... and discarding them is a crime, you just need to carry out the ADEQUATE modernization, and for REASONABLE money. Both that and it is POSSIBLE ...

Quote: Marrying

Armata is still MYTH and it is necessary to bet on t-90cm, which will somehow update the fleet of old cars.

One does not interfere with the other, the modernization of T72 - at repair plants, the release of T90Ms on the "main conveyor" ...

[Aleks tv]

Quote: Marrying

Indeed, t-72 has outlived its time and bet on a tank that is 40 years old - it just does not give a damn about the lives of guys.

Quote: svp67

These tanks, almost a dozen thousand ... and discarding them is a crime, you just need to carry out the ADEQUATE modernization, and for REASONABLE money. Both that and it is POSSIBLE ...

Sergey, I SUBSCRIBE TO EVERY WORD.
You just need adequate ... before modernization.

[Alekseev]

Quote: Marrying

Indeed, t-72 has outlived its time and bet on a tank that is 40 years old - it just does not give a damn about the lives of guys.

Have you read the articles?
The author writes not about the fact that the T-72 is bad, but about how spv67 rightly notes: "There are almost tens of thousands of these tanks ... and discounting them is a crime, you just need to carry out the modernization ADEQUATE, and for SANE money."

[Tambov Wolf]

Driving technologists, planting designers, the director of the enterprise should already sit for such "modernization", "economy" and dumping everything on the lack of money. At the plant, reduce the thugs, idlers, "relatives." Create a special team to interact with military units and identify deficiencies in the design of equipment and its control during combat operations. The military acceptance should also check that the requirements of military units are taken into account during the modernization, repair and creation of equipment. The described in the article also takes place in other areas (aviation, navy, etc.). Introduce strict discipline and responsibility, first of all, for directors, chief engineers, production managers, chiefs of supply, including criminal responsibility. There should be work, not a feeding trough.

[Abracadabra]

Oh, what good wishes! :) But while those who are sitting in the Kremlin and in the Duma, until then the demands of the army and targeted funding will be a dream, and those who mow will never be held responsible.

[family tree]

Thanks a lot to the author!

[Prapor-527]

Quote: svp67

Yes, apparently "helluva lot", SO to manage to "drink" some money ...
By the way, Alexey - installing a caterpillar "a, la T80" instead of the native one, with the same engine, is not the best option, it is more "stiff", which has a good effect on driving at high speeds, but increases the resistance to movement, which affects the increase in fuel consumption ... Interestingly, the T72B3 was "driven" to "full range" with one refueling ...

How many hits from the RPG did the T-72 withstand on New Year's Eve in Grozny? Given that the NDZ blocks were without explosives ...

[Lopatov]

Quote: Prapor-527

How many hits from the RPG did the T-72 withstand on New Year's Eve in Grozny?

Dear, this is roulette. Sometimes one is enough, ask Barankevich.

[tchoni]

Yes. Very interesting. Thanks to the author.

Am I interested in something else? why com. We don’t like tanks so much.
His surveillance devices are trouble. and in my opinion on all domestic tanks.

[svp67]

Quote: tchoni

His surveillance devices are trouble. and in my opinion on all domestic tanks.

But why. On T80U and T90, "steps were taken in the right direction"

[Algor73]

One feels that the practitioner wrote, not the theorist (especially with UVZ). And about Serdyukov that he wrote with a small letter. According to this principle, in Ukraine all ministers are written with a small one.

[Ivan Tarasov]

Yeah, a depressing sight ...

[Crrusader40]

Very scary and dangerous beast

[il-z]

Thank you "Mazut" for the truth.
I feel that we will have to do so in spite of and in spite of this "army" of effective managers, sycophants and popolizov to live, serve and, God forbid, fight.

[AlexA]

Respect to the author. Precisely, technically competent. Emotionless. With knowledge of the matter. Maybe one of the decision makers will read such materials? Or we all learn to throw out of the seats those who do not want to read. Otherwise - n ... c.

[Bogranz]

Many thanks to the author for the non-biased and objective article. I read it with pleasure and wanted ... to swear.

[Ka-52]

Creating a simple circular defense is not a caterpillar ballistic missile submarine flying to Mars. Everything is much, much simpler. And inexpensive. The question is why are we doing this?

I will try to answer

Early morning. Monsieur Serdyukov, scratching his "work callus", gets out of bed. At this moment, Mrs. Vasilyeva, covering herself with a blanket in his bed, sighs languidly and pouts her lips in a capricious voice: “Dear, did you see what the General Staff sent us yesterday? And Irochka needs a new car! And Allochka wanted to fly to Paris, she wanted to buy a dress from Cardin from the new collection. YES, and you promised me a necklace, well, you remember for 300 thousand dollars. Now even Skrynnik will envy me. "
Serdyukov grunts indistinctly, puts on slippers with pumpons and goes into the bathroom. There, purring under his breath: "We are not stokers, we are not carpenters ..", - accepts water procedures.
Something like this, + general disorder and irresponsibility

[Eugeniy_369]

Quote: Ka-52

I will try to answer

Oh comedian .

[gallville]

The concept of the General Staff in relation to the existing fleet of tanks in the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation is visible:
- Reliance on the existing park T-90.
- Liquidation of machines of the T-80 family.
- Upgrade the T-72 to the level T-72B3.
Hence:
T-90 around 500 pcs.
The rest of the niche will occupy T-72B3.

And it will be BEFORE the arrival of "Almaty".
But Armata is still at the design and testing stage.
In order for it to go into series, a long-term cycle of state and military tests is necessary. And only after that it will be possible to talk about serial deliveries of the volumes that the military-industrial complex will be able to provide and pay for the Defense Ministry under the rearmament state program.

So ... We are entering the XXI century, before entering the linear armored units and units, "Armaty" with ... the current version of T-72B3?

Complete decommissioning of the T-80 by 2015, at the current pace of modernization to B3 level of 100-200 units.

In stock 2013 total:
T-90A - 500 pcs.
T-80 - 4000 pcs.
T-72 - 9000 thousand units.

Estimated presence in the troops in 2013 (according to the reform of 2000 units of 5000 units in storage):
T-90 - 500 pcs.
T-72B, B3 - 600 pcs.
T - 80 - 900 pcs. At the time of 2013


By 2015, the T-80 is withdrawn from service. Replacement T-72.
150 T-72B3 arrive annually .. At the time of 2013, about 300 units were already delivered. So by 2015 .... 150 units * 2 years another 300. Total 300 + 300 = 600 units. B3
What is the result:
2015 year
T-90A - 500 units.
T-72B3 - 600 units

T-72B - 900 units. at the time of 2015. - in the active parts instead of the T-80.

Z.Y. The figures are taken from open sources, therefore, can fluctuate reflecting the overall picture.

[31231]

Well written. I read it with pleasure.
Yeah, Serdyukovsky slabs ordered the military-industrial complex a tank for an estimate, and not for tankers.
Let's hope that Shoigu has an adequate deputies and General Staff.

[Watchman]

Why didn’t B2 join the troops? Is it more expensive or worse?

[PLO]

Why didn’t B2 join the troops? Is it more expensive or worse?

B2 is much better
that was exactly what the correct modernization of the T-72B should have been ..

[Moore]

Thanks to the author. It would be nice to see the opinions of experts on other "unique" samples.

[Vlad_Mir]

I am not an expert on tanks, but I look at the "half-naked" turret and somehow it becomes uncomfortable. The first shot from a grenade launcher can be fatal!

[VadimSt]

As always! At exhibitions and in high-ranking comments one thing, but in kind - another!
Margelov sent his son, for experimental landing of the crew in equipment, and here, it is necessary to form the crew from the responsible bureaucrats from the Armed Forces and the defense industry and launch it on a full cycle of military tests, up to the test for survivability. Maybe fear for his own skin will make him join the work.

[Aleks tv]

Thank you all very much for your feedback on this article. Not expected…

T-72B for me is not just a tank, but a MACHINE WITH LARGE LETTERS. Too many things are connected with her ...
To bring to mind the T-72B3 is not difficult and, not least - NOT expensive. Then the legendary 40 summer "Turtle" will still show "Kuz'kin's mother."

Indeed, articles on various topics from members of the forum would be very pleased, The army is Big ...

[Watchman]

Thank you for the article. You won’t get objective estimates from the media!

[sergey158-29]

Thanks for the work you've done"...

Of particular interest was the selection of PHOTOS ...

The conclusion is sad ... I saw the dough and the complete FUN!

[Aleks tv]

Quote: sergey158-29

The conclusion is sad ... I saw the dough and the complete FUN!

Sergey, we (tankers) are not pessimists and not optimists ...
We are realists.
The guys also serve on simple T-72Б.
And here is a whole T-72Б3.
So the combat mission EVERYTHING WILL BE EQUIPPED.
Simply ... it is desirable to keep the "fuel oil" .................
Is it possible:
- Bring to mind the modernization of the T-72Б3,
- Stop (!!!) the collapse of the operation of the T-80 and also modernize lightly.
That's all.
And then - just wait for Armata.
And this (already quite solid) equipment will be planned and gradually replaced, with further transfer to the mobile reserve to BHVT according to the standard of the USSR.

And then it’s possible to live in peace - Ipmeria’s tank fist.
Yes, he is now - ALIVE.

[smersh70]

Quote: Aleks tv

Stop (!!!) the collapse of the operation of the T-80

as a specialist, answer ... why is it poorly used in hot countries ... they say in Dubai ... it stalled due to dust that completely clogged the turbines .... and what to do in hot countries if the T-80 is good, but its use creates there are problems in the south .. as far as I know, there were few in the T-80 ZAKVO, and then for familiarization ... and they were not used in battles here ..

[Abracadabra]

T-80 participated in Chechnya and, unfortunately, also burned .. But if the gas turbine engine is expensive to operate, then why not upgrade the existing T-80U in the T-80UD, with a 6TD diesel engine. Can the T-72 fully replace the T-80?

[smersh70]

Quote: Abra Kadabra

Can the T-72 fully replace the T-80?

so what kind of tank is all the same the best) 0 everyone who rode on some praises his own)) on the recruiting station begged to be taken into the tank troops .. watched films about the T-34))) now having read all the articles and comments I thank the previous commission, that sent to the air force

[Abracadabra]

If we compare the purely driving virtues, even the T-80U, even the T-80UD with the most sophisticated T-90, then the latter loses. Therefore, the T-80 base for further modernization would be better.

[Aleks tv]

Quote: smersh70

as a specialist, answer ... why is it poorly used in hot countries ... they say in Dubai ... it stalled due to dust that completely clogged the turbines .... and what to do in hot countries if the T-80 is good, but its use creates there are problems in the south .. as far as I know, there were few in the T-80 CLOSURE, and then for review ...

Vurgun, I’m not a specialist in gas turbine engine.
But in Dubai, as far as I remember, the T-80 left all the "foreigners" in the sands ...

[Orakul2000]

Alex
Thank you very much for the article and comments on it, everything is very interesting !!!

[alone]

in general, the T-72 in terms of modernization is a unique tank. It can be upgraded to infinity.))

[The fat man]

[quote = alekseev] [quote = Zheka] Due to lobbying the T-72 for its modernizations and descendants, the excellent T-80U tank was out of work [/ quote]
If you could find a way for the GTE to stop eating kerosene "like a bull's slop", and to make it cheaper and more maintainable, then, undoubtedly having its own advantages, the GTD-1250 would take the place of a diesel engine in MBT.
Do not forget that gas turbine engines can be omnivorous instead of kerosene and crude oil and diesel, but you can mix everything and save on fuel and lubricants, but no problems when starting the engine and warming up

[Alekseev]

Quote: Fat Man

Do not forget that GTE is omnivorous, you can pour in crude oil instead of kerosene

Try pouring crude oil into a gas turbine engine -1250F ... If only the loggers (or suckers, I don’t know exactly who are now) would be glad if it were possible ... A gas turbine engine is not a tractor engine of the early 20th century with ignition, crude oil worked poorly.
However, it’s not all about sad things, tank crews need some fun sometimes.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: Fat Man

Do not forget that GTE is omnivorous, you can pour in crude oil instead of kerosene

If I am not mistaken, kerosene is 4 times cheaper than diesel fuel. We would have counted in rubles how much a 100 km diesel run on a solarium and gas turbine engine on kerosene cost.
Another question is which tank is cheaper to operate.

[The fat man]

alas I can’t say anything about it
and at the expense of the cheapness of the exotation as a mechanic, I also dealt with diesel engines and gas turbine engines, but for Russian realities it is better than gas turbine engines

[Abracadabra]

Is diesel not a waste in the manufacture of gasoline, kerosene? That is, oil is divided into fractions ... gasoline-kerosene-diesel-fuel oil .. Diesel can be made from everything and tons of oil is enough to make more diesel than kerosene, or not? So, I found this opinion: If we take the GTD-1000 (1250), for the T-80 tanks, then the main fuel there is diesel fuel, the backup fuel is kerosene, and the reserve fuel is gasoline. In peaceful life, they travel exclusively with reserve fuel (kerosene), in a combat situation it is supposed to refuel with the main (diesel fuel).

[Alekseev]

You do not confuse the waste and high-quality fuels necessary for the normal operation of modern internal combustion engines. You don’t have to simplify too much.
And for tank troops, the main thing is not how expensive the fuel is, but that it can be delivered in sufficient quantities under enemy fire to the tanks in wartime.
Fuel, God forbid, a war, and not like the United States and companies with Iraq, but the real one, there will be no abundance, there will be a lack. As, by the way, and spare parts, rem. Fund and the repairmen themselves, too.

[Irokez]

Maybe they emphasized increasing firepower in the T-72B3 knowing that the rest of the protection can always be built up in any workshops and units in a short time and there is no need to mess with it right now in peacetime. Although, of course, the approach to this modernization is as always, and not the best.

[maxcor1974]

Many thanks to the author for the work done.

[Penek]

Far from the tank theme, but THIS IS THE MAIN IMPACT STRENGTH OF THE RF AF, damn it! Is it again Heroes of Russia (posthumously)? It's a shame ..

[dart_noos]

Here's what I found on the Izvestia website. "The troops are surprised that the T-72M1 model, designed for Algeria at a price of 50 million too, is equipped with an automatic target tracking system, digital sensors for corrections and weather conditions, a remote anti-aircraft gun and air conditioning. In Russian models, the electronics are" at the level of the last century "" ... Apparently, it took less to rollback ...

[avg]

Quote: dart_noos

The troops are surprised that the T-72M1 model, designed for Algeria at a price of also 50 million, is equipped with an automatic target tracking system, digital sensors for corrections and weather conditions, a remote anti-aircraft installation and air conditioning.

Nothing personal just business. It would be nice to find out whose?

[VadimSt]

It's not just a question of comparison, but a question of the price of victory in a real battle. When will they stop just spanking "little blood" with their lips, but will they think? It's probably too early to talk about it! Not ready, either the authorities, or the country for a real fight against corruption and bureaucracy. What is the case of Serdyukov and his gangs - well, they cannot do anything, but with General Shemyakin, Colonels Budanov, Kvachkov, Khabarov and probably dozens of unknowns to us - everything turns out quickly, efficiently and without alternative, which suggests not the triumph of law, but about political expediency or individual personal ambitions!

[The fat man]

Quote: Alekseev

Try pouring crude oil into a gas turbine engine -1250F ... I wish the loggers (or suckers, I don’t know exactly who now) were delighted

dear, let me object as a turbine mechanic, nozzles may clog up and the combustion chamber will accumulate, but maybe due to crude oil, it got excited but nonetheless. if instead of kerosene pour a different type of fuel. nothing bad will happen, the worst thing is to replace the air filters more often since the air flow will increase significantly

[Alekseev]

Quote: Fat Man

let me object as a turbinist

Let me answer you like a poet: "The theory is boring, my friend, but the tree of life is flourishing."
You can not compare a gas turbine with a power plant, a ship with an aircraft or tank GTE.
All that we discuss is well known what kind of fuel is needed (and how many hours it is permissible to work on it) written in IE and TO.
The factory does not strongly recommend its own notions in operation.
And how much kerosene costs is well known in any airline, for the summer of 2013 more than 36 tr., Diesel fuel is cheaper, but its gas turbine engine eats a little more, and kerosene for a gas turbine engine is still "dearer", if it were not so, then and planes would be refueled by diesel fuel.
And what happens if the premium injectors "smoke" (and how much it costs) even many motorists know.
Tank GTE is a complex and expensive unit that requires high-quality fuel and lubricants and, in operating conditions in a tank, fuel consumption, especially in variable modes, which distinguishes driving on the ground from an aircraft flight, and is currently not competitive with a diesel engine.
Which, in fact, is proved by the development of the world tank engine building.

[The fat man]

Quote: avg

Quote: dart_noos

The troops are surprised that the T-72M1 model, designed for Algeria at a price of also 50 million, is equipped with an automatic target tracking system, digital sensors for corrections and weather conditions, a remote anti-aircraft installation and air conditioning.

Nothing personal just business. It would be nice to find out whose?

Remember in the days of the USSR, cars for export were distinguished by quality compared to the domestic market. So nothing has changed

[Sinbad]

Thank you for the article! Very informative. I drove 72 in 1981 ... 1983 (in study 64), I still dream about it. It is very sad that there are so few improvements in so many years. The most important thing is dynamic protection, and they put it, as it turns out, "clumsily". And the car, in spite of everything, is wonderful!

[okroshka79]

The content of the article evokes great respect for its author, who, apparently, has extensive experience in the combat use of tanks not only at a tank training ground, but also in battle. A detailed analysis of various structural elements and units of the modernization of the tank shows, using the example of the common misfortune of our Armed Forces - the complete collapse of military science. After all, not the General Staff of the Armed Forces, not the GABTU or GRAU or others, let's say, ordering departments should develop TTZ for modernization, but the research institutes of the corresponding Types of Aircraft under the control and with the direct participation of these ordering departments. Based on the analysis of the development of world trends, future military threats, the development of science and technology, the production capabilities of manufacturing plants. And they were defeated by reductions and "reforms and optimizations." Now there is a reaping of the fruits that was heaped up. Another difference from the "days of the past": before the beginning of the "perestroika-shootout" times in the central special directorates of the Armed Forces, military research institutes gathered the best specialists from all over the country and presented good, naturally, free housing. That is why competent and sophisticated operating experience and BP specialists served and were really useful in them. With the advent of market relations, only those who had their own housing in Moscow now serve in these military organizations, so one wonders why there are many mediocrities there. After all, Russia is famous for its talents, not Moscow. That is, it seems that this modernization of the tank is a reflection of a deep systemic crisis in the creation, modernization and production of military equipment and equipment. And there is no need to talk about the military development of our Armed Forces (or rather, its shyness), all for the same reasons.

[Abracadabra]

Something market relations do not prevent the same Poles, Ukrainians, Czechs, Slovaks from modernizing or making new equipment? I'm not even talking about countries such as Germany, Sweden ... In my opinion, the problem is that there is no competition between design bureaus in Russia, UVZ crushed everything for itself, the same Omsk people with their deep and promising modernization ob 640 "Black Eagle" like also now under UVZ. But when was this Ob.640 tested? How many years have passed! It would have been possible to supply the army with an excellent modernization of the T-80 for a long time .. Unfortunately, at the top of the UVZ, in the Ministry of Defense and General Staff there are people who seem to have other interests in the first place, after all, big money is being mastered .. and how quickly it ends!

[flanker7]

The decommissioning of the T-80, along with the "specific performance" of the T-72B3 modification, I consider a sabotage carried out by the RF Ministry of Defense once again.

[Bugor]

Thank you so much to the author!
Question to GSH and MO:
"IT and are there my taxes ????? "
I would put it to the wall for this.
19th century destroyer tower to protect the commander - THIS is my taxes ????
The experience of local conflicts - it is paid in blood - WHERE are my taxes? Why not in the form of DZ on the entire surface of the tank? I do not care about the weight of this protection, they take money from my pocket to pay for the training of students in TCU, and then this money will be returned in the form of coffins? I pay all kinds of research institutes for the development of remote sensing and engines, armor and guns, and WHERE is all this?
I look at the zombie tank biathlon and cry. The commander doesn’t get out of the machine gun, the gunner’s gunner, the mechanic’s driver goes past the track, in the fighting compartment there’s smoke after a shot, as in hell, the clutches are wedged, the crews don’t hear commands, and all this in the 21st century ???? Oh my God...
And they read on the box of mantra - Armata-armata-armata .....
Joseph Vissarionovich, where are YOU?

[sapran]

Aleksey read about MTO and became sad :(. The approach to MO is "international":
1. Of the several options for upgrading 64 to Bulat, we also chose the cheapest ...
2. The most annoying Alexey is that even with the fact that you have 64 cuts, their Komadir towers with ZPUs could be adapted without special problems during the modernization of the T-72 (if they already save so much)
3. Instead of unification with "Vladimir", at least in MTO and command instruments, a very truncated version was adopted that does not help with visibility (and target detection is already half the battle)
4. APU, as I understand it, decided not to introduce it, and the starter-generator itself was not replaced, respectively, it is not possible to use more energy-intensive devices and it is impossible to put sights.
Such economy is angry (protection is not subject to evaluation at all), but is it possible that simply the General Staff rate goes to other types of troops? In general, time will put everything in its place. The main thing is to be peaceful ...

[Kars]

Quote: sapran

1. Of the several options for upgrading 64 to Bulat, we also chose the cheapest ...

And it’s 2 times cheaper than upgrading the T-72Б3, while in my superficial view BM Bulat is the best. And the only major drawback is that it’s not connected with money, but a reserved panorama.

[sapran]

Kars, as it were, is softer ... it's not quite true.
1 Asked 6TD received 5TDFM (and some machines are just 5TDF unfocused)
2. The radio stations were mainly set by the ancients (I understood the new ones only for Georgia)
3 Panorama + nightlight didn’t break into us (though in general the Sighting complex and surveillance devices will be better)
4. APU, again, only for foreign customers
5. hodovke asked for trivia 5 more points received a fig.
6. The developments from the "Banana" theme were not implemented, and this is an increase in the survivability of the machine by almost 1,7 times!
7. and of course the quantity and quality of the work done here we have a "hat" and the language of the complaint to the plant is particularly unrelenting, since the money is almost not reaching them :(!
So the advantages we have are bright, but in return for improving the fleet of the Supreme Zrada, they can improve cars for the escho of one brigade

[Bad_gr]

Quote: sapran

1 Asked 6TD received 5TDFM (and some machines are just 5TDF unfocused)

Here the reason may be the same as, in due time, among the Petersburgers, who installed a 64-strong turbine on the T-1000 - the chassis does not pull.

[sapran]

Chassis, or more precisely, BKP "pull up to 1250 hp

[Bad_gr]

Quote: sapran

Chassis, or more precisely, BKP "pull up to 1250 hp

As for the T-64 tank, not my opinion, this is from the history of the T-80.

[Bad_gr]

"..... we use the" Diary "of the chief designer of the T-64 tank AA Morozov [18]. Many spoke about the unreliability of the T-64A running gear (object 434) and the need to improve it:
- wrote A.A. Morozov March 5, 1973 and believed that the chassis of the T-64A is a "bone of contention" between the Kharkov plant of transport engineering them. Malysheva (HZTM) and the Leningrad Kirov Plant (LKZ). (The latter was instructed to install a gas turbine engine in the T-64 tank, and the LKZ insisted on using its undercarriage instead of the unreliable Kharkiv with metal rims of track rollers with a diameter of 550 mm and a metal track track. In 1971, a new T-80 tank was installed chassis with rubberized track rollers with a diameter of 670 mm and a track with a rubberized treadmill. Since 1985, Kharkov dwellers had to start using the chassis of the T-80 tank on the T-80UD tank [21, 22];
- said the director of the KhZTM O.V. twice at meetings Soich. He owns the words: “The 434 chassis is unacceptable for perspectives and modernization, you cannot develop a car on this chassis” (“The director is aggressive,” A. Morozov noted);
- insisted the Deputy Minister of Defense Industry L.A. Voronin, who proposed taking as a basis for a promising tank being developed by Morozov Design Bureau - object "450" ​​the chassis of the UVZ or LKZ;
- the arguments of the director of the lead tank institute VNII-100 (VNIITM) V.B. Proskuryakov and E.K. Potemkin. Proskuryakov, reporting at a meeting with the Minister of Defense Industry on April 4, 1974, about testing an institute prototype of a tank weighing 45–46 tons with a view to testing promising structural elements of the chassis, listed its components, highlighting track rollers with a diameter of 750 mm, six pieces on each side (as on the T-72 tank!).

Potemkin: “The T-72 has a reserve for the development of weight. On the T-64A this is not, especially on the chassis ... "

Finally, there is the competent opinion of Yu.P. Kostenko, cited above, that the T-64 tank's weight reserve was initially only 8,3%. And the increase in the mass of the Ukrainian tank by 2005 in comparison with the T-64A was 27,6%! (for the T-64A, the mass is 38 tons; for the T-84 - 48,5 tons [22]) ...... "

[sapran]

I’ll ask a simple question. Have you read the diaries yourself, or have you only read extracts from the "Armament Techniques" or by Gur-Khan?
The issue has been discussed more than once and is a reason for holivar of any scale. The difference in weight between the T-80 of Leningrad and the T-64 BM "Bulat" is about 8-10 tons in the larger direction at Bulat. Comparative tests were carried out regarding the reliability of various chassis ...
There is a drawback, and it is serious only in one thing - he sat down to the very tomatoes, and if you choose between three road wheels, then the "lesser evil" will naturally be behind the hodovka from the T-80, and the decision to replace three types of MBT was in favor of the T family -80U (UD) here you and the north here you and Europe (but that was for the USSR)

[Bad_gr]

Quote: sapran

Have you read the diaries yourself, or have you only read the excerpts from "Armament Techniques" or by Gur-Khan?

Well, let's remove the diaries from the arguments, and return to the appearance of the T-80 tank. Information on this subject is full. Everywhere the reason why the gas turbine tank is running is not from the T-64, only one is indicated - even for the 1000-horsepower engine and the tank’s weight that was tested, it was weak.

[sapran]

1000 hp 6TD were installed on the T-64 in the last installment of problems and horrors declared by the Leningraders. The fact is that for the development of just a MTO with a gas turbine engine there is one prize and awards, but for the development of a new tank (it sounds proudly and significantly) a completely different honor and respect. and the second side of the coin is that the path that went to Leningrad, Omsk and Nizhny Tagil was expected to be a planned increase in MBT weight from modification to modification of the 27% indicated above by you, which was considered an evil by A. Morozov who considered this direction a dead end.

[Kars]

Quote: sapran

Kars is, as it were, softer ... not quite

What you asked for and what you received is understandable. But at the output of BM Bulat it still looks better. And there is no limit to perfection. And I would love to see that if it turned out, let me upgrade a T-64 52 million rubles.

[Kars]

Quote: sapran

and of course the quantity and quality of the work carried out here we have a "hat" at which language to make a complaint to the plant

And what kind of quality problems? About 100 BM Damask steel delivered? They have already crumbled? Or what?

[sapran]

The batch of cars that ended up in "Honduras" badly frayed the nerves of the deputies ...

[Kars]

Quote: sapran

in "Honduras"

is this country? or potter?

[alex86]

It became sad - it always seemed to me that the protection by the DZ blocks was somehow strange, and now it is clearly visible that it is simply stupidly installed. How much% of the surface does it protect, interesting?
And so I will say - since we don’t know how to protect towers of this form (do not want to?), We need to switch to welded with flat surfaces - there it will be easier for these losers to even arrange DZ ...
Very upset.

[DZ_98_B]

Many thanks to the author for the article. Witch's kiss .... eternal memory of fallen soldiers. The engine of the B2 series is very good .... for t34. I had to talk a lot with these engines. He deserves nothing but curses. Power was checked at the stand. One engine produced 480 liters out of 500 declared. The rest are 450-460 and one 430hp Below 5 frost, only one engine was started, which gave out 480hp. And even then only to -15. All others required heating by starting heaters. Adjustment of the high-pressure fuel pump and the start of fuel supply did not give results. A very dirty engine oil runs out of all the cracks. But it’s a joke whether the cylinder blocks are installed on the crankcase without gaskets. Oil consumption is just a laugh through tears 2 ... 3 hours of operation pour a bucket of oil without looking. Then you check the oil level in the tank and add more. Fuel consumption oh god !!!!!! Injector repair manual: clean the nozzle holes .... with a wire with a diameter of 0.8 mm !!!!!!!!! Holes 8. I hope it is clear what fuel consumption. Gaskets under the head burn out with enviable regularity. There are a lot of problems. And what good the engine is, well, the exhaust sound is beautiful, formidable such a roar. Electrical equipment ... a constant generator, a 6 kg charge relay weighing ... shock. Contactor starter 10 grams of silver, why the hell? The engine of the tank requires urgent replacement. I remember reading about the IL-2 diesel engine with a power of 1500 hp. namely diesel. Raise old tech cards to upgrade. Optimize timing phases. Optimize combustion chamber. maybe it would. You can’t hope for engine X. It turns out to be a CPG from B2. Well, most of the problems are from there. Can steal engines from a leopard?

[ramsi]

why so gloomy ?! X-shaped is a great idea, and apart from the controversial Ukrainian two-stroke, I do not see better. As for the quality of implementation - you have to stand nearby and beat, beat with all your might on the hands - the manufacturer’s manual

[Patton5]

You didn’t put it right, not controversial but non-alternative .... with its power and overall dimensions

[ramsi]

so X-shaped worse ?!

[Alekseev]

Quote: Patton5

You didn’t put it right, not controversial but non-alternative .... with its power and overall dimensions

Alternative, alternative with his, nowhere to see the flaws.
In my opinion, it is written most fully, competently, without hysterics and additions, why 5TDF-6TD are very alternative, it is written in the well-known article "Russia is not going to acquire Ukrainian tanks"
Type in a search engine and read if interesting.

[Patton5]

The most important conclusion of the article

Publications about the T-84 tank in the Russian press will certainly do a disservice to the tank builders of Ukraine, as forced specialists of UKBTM identify part of the shortcomings of the T-84. However, maybe in other countries there are potential buyers of these tanks, because Russia is not going to purchase them.

Votya would be surprised if they began to praise him

[Patton5]

It would be necessary to ask these specialists to identify the shortcomings of the T-72b3, otherwise the Ural tanks will be the best of the best, just "super", but for some reason, when the USSR was a promising and united Leningrad-Kharkov disgusting T-80ud ... read if it is interesting /btvt.narod.ru/4/t-64_t-72.htm

[Kars]

Quote: Patton5

USSR promising and united was to become the Leningrad-Kharkov disgusting T-80ud ...

And by the way, for some reason, they armed the court Kantemirov and Toman divisions.

[Sinbad]

Respected! Division Tamanskaya, guards!

[svp67]

Quote: Patton5

but for some reason, when the USSR was in place, the Leningrad-Kharkov disgusting T-80ud was supposed to be promising and uniform ...

Well, let's start with the fact that the T80U was to become one ... and at that moment it was the BEST tank, even the first T90 was inferior to it ...

[Patton5]

and another article, in my opinion interesting ... how much objective I do not know http://btvt.narod.ru/raznoe/bulat-leo2.htm

[Alekseev]

Quote: Patton5

Leningradsko-Kharkov disgusting T-80ud was to become promising and unified ...

He, not disgusting, does not have to be exaggerated.
At us, in the USSR, everyone was good, which led to the phenomenon of the 3-MBT model in service!
And the flaws of the T-72B3 in the aforementioned article could not be listed by the respected authors, since at the time of writing it there weren’t any B3 yet.
But the reasons why two-stroke diesel engines are more than "alternative" are described truthfully, which is, that is, I was convinced of this personally over many years of operation. And not one tanker, at least on this forum, does not declare the opposite.
Otherwise, I would not recommend anyone to get acquainted with this article.
These are mediocre motors, (which, of course, are not created from one drawback, they have well-known advantages). And the fact that these diesel engines are produced in Kharkov, in Ukraine is not an excuse for them.
As well as no excuse for the Russian bosses in the disgusting modernization of the T-72 in the B3 variant.

[Kars]

Quote: Alekseev

. And not one tanker, at least on this forum, does not declare the opposite.

So they don’t drive? Tanks with two-stroke diesel engines?

Take offense at such an article?
http://glavcom.blogspot.com/2012/03/90.html

[Alekseev]

Yes they go!
I stayed for 15 years!
Half of the GSVG, Yugoslavian Army and Kiev, and, in part, the Odessa Military District, drove them.
They ride, ride, but have serious shortcomings.
Dragging them, say, to Russia, especially from a sovereign state, and not from the former union republic, makes no sense either political, economic or military-technical.
Good about them, endless discussions got.

[Kars]

Quote: Alekseev

They ride, ride, but have serious shortcomings.

Serious to what extent? To complete non-combat readiness? Or the fact that they should be better monitored?

Quote: Alekseev

Saving them, say, to Russia, especially from a sovereign state, and not from the former union republic, makes no sense either political, economic, or military-technical.

China drags here. Even though it has both German diesel engines and the Soviet 4, it has been producing 30 for years already.

Quote: Alekseev

Good about them, endless discussions got

Don’t mention it so - write yourself what drives.

[svp67]

Quote: Kars

Serious to what extent? To complete non-combat readiness? Or the fact that they should be better monitored?

The lower the ambient temperature, the higher the disadvantages ...

[Patton5]

It's nice to read when a person, without pathos and distorting the facts, defends his point of view ... for this. +. For myself, I long ago decided that the T-72 is "a cuckoo's egg thrown into the nest of armored troops" with all the ensuing consequences, it's not bad ,,, but it's not a "swallow but a cuckoo"
PS the article that you cite in the link is biased, in principle, like the one that leads kars

[Alekseev]

Quote: Patton5

PS the article that you cite in the link is biased, in principle, like the one that leads kars

Well, Kars, this is understandable ... "Defeating" him is not possible. Yes and no! May he abide in goodness ... "Serious to what extent? To complete non-combat readiness? Or that they should be better monitored?"
I don’t believe that such an avid BTT lover and patriot of Z. da Malysheva never read, even here, about what shortcomings and how to follow ... And as a patriot, it’s good, bad that the plant has been over 20 years old through a stump deck is financed and, accordingly, also works. High-tech industries cannot exist that way. Or maybe they can? Kars probably knows the secret!
But about the article that I pointed out in the link.
I would like you to specifically tell me what it is biased in regarding the specialists listing the shortcomings of 5TDF (6TD) diesel engines?
Where did you lie? Interesting.

[Kars]

Quote: Alekseev

I have never read, at least here, about what shortcomings and how to follow ...

I read. As without it. But I would like specifically from YOU answer? To the loss of combat capability?
By the way, today SVP67 posted a story about Undemandingness - I read the comments of tankers operating the T-64 very, very positive reviews.

Quote: Alekseev

oh well, bad that the plant has been funded through the stump deck for more than 20 years and, accordingly, also works

Now is the time - there is not much demand for tanks. The British generally closed their last tank factory, while the Ukrainian at least somehow work.

Quote: Alekseev

Or maybe they can? Kars probably knows the secret!

and what’s the secret? Effective management, advertising, state protection - and just to finance - Ukraine does not need so many tanks.

Quote: Alekseev

Did you specifically tell me what it was biased in regarding the enumeration by specialists of the shortcomings of the 5TDF (6TD) diesel engines?

It’s enough because the specialists of the uralvagonzavod wrote this, and Gurk Khan had already canceled the Thai contract and the contract for the supply of engines to China several times.


So, just like that. Vsetaki eZdyut.

[Alekseev]

I wrote to Patton, and here again Kars ...
What kind of khan?
I was not interested in what kind of specialists the article was written from, from which research institute, or even UVZ.
Maybe I didn’t read what, I misunderstood correct, where did they lie? (Or maybe they didn’t read the article, surprised that the authors "not those")
And now, well, let's get ready for combat!
As for the fact that they don’t drive at all, I didn’t say (see above)
He traveled a lot, yes!
And to interpret the same thing, somehow fed up.
I will try to be brief.
Two-stroke tank diesel engines developed in the USSR require ... no, no higher education is needed, but a high service culture, difficult to achieve in difficult combat conditions (about the conditions in Syria?)
They do not like heat, and cold, and dust. But they love butter! and DT more than others (not so much, 15-20 percent)
They do not forgive what other motors can forgive, for example, even a small loss of water. Or if you just pour water without sulfofilter and additives. And one more thing, they have already written about everything many times (read the article for the upcoming dream! )
That is, maintaining combat readiness, especially in difficult conditions "life and activities of troops" much harder to organize than, say, on the same T-72.

[Kars]

Quote: Alekseev

I wrote to Patton, and here again Kars ..

remember me)))

Quote: Alekseev

What kind of khan?

Are you really unfamiliar with the work of A. Khlopotov aka Gkrk Khan. Then you will find a lot of pleasure.
http://gurkhan.blogspot.com/

Quote: Alekseev

in difficult combat conditions (about the conditions in Syria watched a movie?) service culture.

Well, Syria is certainly an indicator, but the USSR did not even think of selling T-64 countries to such countries. And operation in Pakistan is much different.

Quote: Alekseev

That is, maintaining combat readiness, especially in difficult conditions of "life and activity of troops" is much more difficult to organize than, say, on the same T-72.

Probably on the T-34 everything would be even simpler.

[sapran]

Excuse me. Do you write that the tanks were exploited? In what quality, with which models did you personally deal? and if it’s not difficult, what do you remember most about each car? Thanks in advance.
briefly began about himself with the "School of Young Tankmen" in Kiev, the head of the retired colonel Shpula 1989 the first T-34-85 vehicles and the chassis model BMP-2, T-54, T62D, T64A (BV) M, BM, T- 72A (B), T-80BV, T-80UD, all this took place in KVTIU (KISV) and h / in Ukraine in Cherkasy, Yavoriv, ​​Berdichev, Goncharovsk, etc.

[Alekseev]

I graduated from the Higher Technical School of Higher Education, served in both Europe and the Far East, including the UBT, the Kyrgyz Republic, the NShB, and a teacher of OP.
I had to operate the T-64A, B1 and BV, T-55, TO-55, T-62M, T-80B, and T-72 (by the way, it is smaller than other cars, even though they accuse me of allegiance to UVZ sometimes).
Now there is no time to answer your questions, and so I signed in the comments to the articles of Alexei as never before!
Write, if it’s not difficult in PM, I’ll definitely answer, if I know, of course.

[Alekseev]

Where have you experienced such rarities?
Written off at the sorting into the national economy, or what?
According to the experience of operating diesel engines V-55, V-46, V-84, schematically repeating V-2 "such passion" was not observed.
Some museum instructions - clean the wire with spray guns!
Yes, this motor was not a sample in terms of resource, oil consumption, etc., but
The problems of the V-2 diesel engine were caused by the backward technology of the 30-40s.
The technologies of today used in the production of parts of the same CPG (there have never been any special problems in the troops), crankshaft, fuel equipment and allowed to increase the motor power by 2 times.
If such a power as that of V-92s (or, at least B-84) were tried to be removed from the V-2 of 1940 onwards, then it would simply fall apart.
At the same time, of course, for the 21st century it is time to have a new engine and tank.
Speaking of the "birds": a six-ton ​​Il-2 attack aircraft with a 1720 hp engine. flew with a "napruga", and only with a diesel engine of 1500 hp. would fly very "low" (and without bombs )

[Bad_gr]

Quote: DZ_98_B

The engine of the B2 series is very good .... for t34.

I skated on the T-62 for 2 years with the B-55B engine (580 horses). The company was with an increased consumption of motor resources. That is, these tanks participated in all regular firing and in all exercises. Only tanks of the training company rode more than us. I didn’t even hear about problems with the engine. I won’t say the fuel consumption (when the tanker came, filled the tanks to the very neck and skated until the next tanker arrived), oil was consumed, but sometimes after the march it was not necessary to add fuel - the level was normal.

At 200-kilowatt diesel power plants, they often put tank derated engines - they had not been in operation for months (they used to work for half a year). Again, there were no problems with them. As a practitioner I say.

[Kostya77]

Respect to the author, a big plus for the article, everything is to the point and clear. Well done!

[nightingale]

Thank you for the article, it turned out to be exemplary. everything is written clearly and clearly, much becomes clear, especially seemingly small things, but they nullify all the expensive modernization. On the Internet they don’t pay much attention to this. Could the author at least compare the instruments installed on this tank with the instruments on the T80 of the latest modification. There’s a lot on the internet about engines and automatic loading systems for them, but the information on instruments is sketchy.

[Tommygun]

70 years have passed, nothing has changed!
As in WWII, the main disadvantages of our tanks are communications and instruments.

[uwzek]

The article is not bad. The author's blunder - arming the tank with a 2A46-5 cannon and changing
, in connection with this, the tank’s automatic loader. In reality this is not the case.
A description of the T-72B turret armor design is not really needed (to upgrade the T-72 to the B3 level, tanks of several modifications are used, the armor designs of which differ from each other).
The task of upgrading the T-72 to the T-72B3 variant initially had an Achilles heel - the refusal to modernize the vehicle body and install a new engine (I mean the B-92 complete with a more powerful generator). The latter requires extremely minor modifications to the tank hull. With an increase in the power of the tank's power plant, on the T-72 you can simply install the turret from the T-90MS with all its rifle-electronic gadgets, a commander's panoramic sight, and a remote machine gun. When developing the Proryva tower, this option was initially envisaged. The dynamics of such a car will be worse than that of the 90MS due to the heavier body, and everything else will be cooler than anything else available...
The Ministry of Defense's dislike for the Relikt remote sensing system is simply fatal; there is not a single official statement from officials about the reasons for not adopting this system into service (I already wrote on the forum that Relikt is far from being a quick-change remote sensing system, but who is stopping Kontakt-5 from being modified to security level of the Relict remote control system?).
The tank's anti-cumulative grilles conflict with the use of the "Cape" type tank camouflage system (data from the public press; the "Cape" is not officially in service; I have not personally checked how they interfere with each other). It is impossible to understand why a cheap (compared to the cost of the tank) hull protection system is not used as standard!
A little about the discussion about navigation equipment - the Russian army does not order command tanks at all (several vehicles over the past 15 years). How she (WE) is going to fight is unclear (although, who knows, maybe there is a large supply of BT-5 commanders).
As a result, we have what we have... It is possible to upgrade the T-72 to a very modern level, but for a little more money, in the same time you can have the T-90MS, which has the best characteristics. It’s too late to remember the T-80: it wasn’t UVZ that killed the Omsk plant - all production, the technological equipment for the production of the tank, the workers were fucked up much earlier than the merger of the Omsk design bureau with UVZ (now there is the production of "Solntsepyok" and the modernization of the T-72 (part of it is being carried out in Omsk) are performed by workers sent from Tagil).
The modernization of old T-72s is just an attempt to return into operation the pieces of scrap metal that are on the country's balance sheet (the original state of the modernized vehicles is clearly inoperable). There is a certain cut here (but if the idea of ​​restoring the T-80 prevails, the cut will be two hundred percent, I understand the production of tanks),
Maybe the leadership of the state already knows who they will push the T-72B3 to later, returning the money spent. So far it is clearly betting on Armata.

[Aleks tv]

Quote: uwzek

The author's blunder - arming the tank with a 2A46-5 cannon and changing
, in connection with this, the tank’s automatic loader. In reality this is not the case.

The article indicated this concern.
There is a link to the UVZ website, where in the “T-72 modernization” section, opposite “gun, type, caliber,” it is clearly written: 2A46M or 2A46M-5.

And yet, besides just words, I would like some confirmation about the absence of 2A-46M-5 on the T-72B3.
I hope you don't ignore this.

[uwzek]

I won’t leave it without attention... The 2A46-5 gun is also a UVZ product. Its feature is a system for measuring barrel bending and automatically entering the corresponding correction into the ballistic computer. This option significantly increases the accuracy of fire from a gun, without at all affecting the increase in the cost of the barrel. Therefore, since the appearance of this modification 2A46, UVZ has been pushing this gun into all variants of modifications offered to the country. Why it is not used anywhere is not a question for the authors of the weapon...
It's like with command tanks. One not the stupidest person once explained to me that the commander’s version of the T-90 with a welded turret simply did not have time to be certified. This argument is indirectly supported by the fact that for the production of those rare command T-90s delivered to our army, they used cast turrets found in a trash heap (about the trash heap is a joke, the rest is a fact). When executing export orders, the ratio of 1:30 command and line vehicles is strictly fulfilled by UVZ...

[Aleks tv]

Quote: uwzek

I won’t leave it without attention... The 2A46-5 gun is also a UVZ product. Its feature is a system for measuring barrel bending and automatically entering the corresponding correction into the ballistic computer. This option significantly increases the accuracy of fire from a gun, without at all affecting the increase in the cost of the barrel. Therefore, since the appearance of this modification 2A46, UVZ has been pushing this gun into all variants of modifications offered to the country. Why it is not used anywhere is not a question for the authors of the weapon...

2A46-5 rivets 9, not UVZ. and besides the IIS there are other changes.

And... there was no confirmation in your post about the absence of 2A46M-5 from the T-72B3...
??

[Aleks tv]

Quote: Aleks tv

And... there was no confirmation in your post about the absence of 2A46M-5 from the T-72B3...

And another question, since you are an employee of UVZ (in your words):

HOW exactly is AZ modernized? This was the greatest difficulty for me.

The information in the article was received from colleagues, they explained that the changes are the same as on the T-72BA and no more.
This description (of the AZ modernization) was taken from the magazine Technology and Weapons No. 10. 2009

[Alekseev]

Quote: uwzek

Modernization of old T-72s is just an attempt to return into operation the pieces of scrap metal listed on the country's balance sheet

This is clear, it is not clear why basic, not so expensive work is not being done: dynamic protection, although not the newest, but well covering the turret and hull, aiming and observation devices for the commander, although not the last squeak, but not TKN, ZPU let not stabilized with a radar, but at least with drives like on the T-64 and a normal, pancratic sight..

[uwzek]

I understand you as a tanker as a tanker (I’ve been building tanks for so many years - I’m also a tanker). Let's talk about ZPU. To introduce a closed machine gun mount into the T-72B3, it was necessary to redo the tank’s commander’s cupola, that is, change the tank commander’s sight to a more modern one, because the anti-aircraft machine gun control complex was integrated with it. The alteration is not difficult, but apparently a dead end. The article contains a photograph of the turret roof of the T-72B3 tank, which criticizes the small number of roof protection elements; if you place a photograph of the T-90 next to it, there will be more of these boxes, but these are not remote control elements, but boxes in which the ZPU vertical control channel blocks are located. In the projection of the tank commander's turret it is necessary to place a lot of electronics, which no longer fit in the tank turret. And the ammunition capacity of the external large-caliber machine gun is very low - you shoot two hundred cartridges and get out and change the box, and this is even more dangerous than shooting from a non-remote one. The correct way is to install a non-turret machine gun mount on the tank turret with remote reloading of belts, which does not take up the volume of the commander's cupola, freeing up useful volume... Again we return to the option - on old tanks a turret from the T-90MS with the Relikt remote control system. The cost of upgrading hardware will definitely fit at 30 million; electronics will obviously be more expensive, but not significantly more expensive. The result will be a very combat-ready tank, but for some reason no one takes it...

[Bad_gr]

Quote: uwzek

but for some reason no one takes it...

Apparently, for the one who sits in the position and has the right to choose, all the tanks look the same, since he is not a specialist, but he sees the difference in money. And choosing what is cheaper is natural for him.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: uwzek

The author's blunder - arming the tank with a 2A46-5 cannon and changing
, in connection with this, the tank’s automatic loader. In reality this is not the case.

"...The armament complex of the T-72B3 tank has undergone minimal changes. The 2A46-5 gun-launcher received an updated automatic loader, modified to use new ammunition...." -
"Army Bulletin"http://army-news.ru/2013/08/modernizirovannyj-tank-t-72b3/

".... The tank received a new 125-mm gun 2A46M-5..." -
"Russian military equipment"http://russianarms.mybb.ru/viewtopic.php?id=3322

"...The gun's automatic loader has also been improved for new ammunition...." -
"The T-72B3 was presented to the general public for the first time" http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/38931/

[uwzek]

This information is not true. Of course, it's not your fault, there's just a lot of garbage on the Internet...

[Bad_gr]

Quote: uwzek

This information is not true.

[Aleks tv]

Quote: Bad_gr

Quote: uwzek

This information is not true.

Greetings, Vladimir.

Let's wait to see what Andrei Ivanovich tells us.

[Bad_gr]

Alexey, good evening.
Yes, I’m disappointed with the company called “modernization of the T-72 fleet.”
With what pomp it was all presented (“they will practically not be inferior to the T-90, and in some places they will surpass...”) and such a pitiful embodiment in metal. Of course, installing a new sight is a big plus, but if that's all the improvements....
"The mountain gave birth to a mouse ..."
I'm talking about the Moscow Region, which decided that this was enough.

[Xroft]

Interesting information, but have you heard anything about the purchase of T-90ms? or are we waiting for *Armata*?

[barbiturate]

Thanks to the author, I read it with great interest, it’s a shame that so many people understand how to protect a tank and increase survivability in local conflicts, but things are still there, are our designers and military customers really such inert fools?
Again, if something happens, we will scoop up our own blood with a huge ladle, oh damn

[go]

Quote: Aleks tv

Quote: Alekseev

exercises, frankly, are not the top of difficulty

Yeah, the namesake.

Not at all the top of the difficulty.
3-e UKS will be more serious, as well as test driving, and this is the routine in the troops.

The bogeyman knows what happened to them on the biathlon.

Great analysis. You should publish this article somewhere in a printed publication. Maybe the site will help. Not many people read the Internet. We must fight this insanity. As often happens, a project is a blunder, they cannot or do not want to complete it as it should. The wrong people are doing it. Others will have to pay for this, perhaps with their lives.

I’m not an expert on the topic, but from a general engineering point of view, it’s also unclear why the T80 was ruined - it’s better than the 72 in all these super modifications. I saw Western material that no one in Russia could lobby for, where the 72 was compared with approximately a Lada, and the 80 with a racing car in terms of technology. It’s clear that 72 is more unpretentious, but it’s not all about chasing bearded men - but what if something more serious?

It’s also interesting about biathlon. I watched the finale - two serious failures of equipment on 72 tanks, the ERA blocks flew off from the Armenian tank by themselves... you can also see how they are suffering with this machine gun. I'm not talking about safety precautions and injuries - a separate issue. It's all sad. There is something to work on.

[Alekseev]

What exactly was being compared in this material?
Combat capabilities of Soviet-Russian MBTs approximately the same and differ noticeably not from the brand, but from car modifications If you strip off half of the dynamic protection from the T-3 (as was done during the pseudo-modernization of the B80), then the result when firing at it from an RPG will be exactly the same as when firing at any of our other MBTs. The result will be disastrous.
Here the article is not at all about Western non-lobbied visions (besides, it is not clear what visions there could be in the absence of experience in everyday military operation), but about the fact that the most basic things have not been done. Doesn't require huge expenses. And the technology has been there for a long time. There is no order in TV and the defense industry, that’s what the article is about.

[go]

Yes it is clear. By the way, I had to talk about 80. No matter how they closed it down because of this mess, that’s what it looks like from the outside. But here the specialists know better.

[saramb]

T-72BZ This is what is called “Tank 72 Without Protection”

[PLO]

uv. Alex TV
where did you get the idea that the T-72B3 doesn’t have remote sensing on its side screens?

although it is not installed in the above photo

but it is clear that installation is possible

[Aleks tv]

Quote: olp

where did you get the idea that the T-72B3 doesn’t have remote sensing on its side screens?

Oleg, of course it’s possible to install it, but do you have to make the technological holes yourself?
On the T-72B they were already stamped into rubber (quite thick and heavy).

T-72B3:

[Aleks tv]

Quote: Aleks tv

T-72B3:

And the point is not even that, I repeat again, why not the same as on the same BMO-T? These are additional blocks, if there are “extra” sets, then good. Perhaps they will hang them too.
On the T-90, the side protection of the hull is not a fountain.

BMO-T:

[PLO]

do not quite understand,
Do you really need technological holes on the rubber-fabric screen to install the DZ Kontakt-5 on-board units?
they seem to cling to “loops” fixed to the fender and rest against the rubber-fabric screen under their own weight

If you are talking about DZ Contact-1 blocks, then I agree their installation is not provided

and up to 4 large blocks on each side can be fixed on the same BMO-T

[Aleks tv]

Quote: olp

Do you really need technological holes on the rubber-fabric screen to install the DZ Kontakt-5 on-board units?

Damn, yeah, I missed it.
I was thinking about Contact-1. And not Kontakt-V, yes, there are force screens.

Thanks for correcting me, Oleg.

[PLO]

no way)
thanks for the interesting article
To be honest, all this time I was surprised by such a disgusting location of the remote sensing on the tower; the cost of installing a couple of additional blocks of remote sensing compared to the cost of the entire modernization is simply insignificant

despite the fact that on B2 everything was just fine

[Aleks tv]

Quote: olp

despite the fact that on B2 everything was just fine

B3 is a step back compared to B2.
The Slingshot has only the 2A46M-4 gun, and not the M-5. But it is fixable.
The Slingshot has the same sights (I don’t know about the ACS), but Relic, and not Contact-V, is in defense. Dvigl B-92, which means there is a gain and change in the transmission, and the suspension has been further developed (obviously which is no worse than on the T-72BA).
There is a system of electronic protection against magnetic mines.
There are bars (in the appendage to the Relic).
There is a regular "Cape".
There is a Curtain, but without spotlights.
But ... the same cover on the Pine (in the photo it is moved and held on two bolts, XXI century, damn it). The same TKN-3 and open ZPU.

Eheh ...

[PLO]

B3 is a step back compared to B2.

agree
but, IMHO, even the B3 could, gritting one’s teeth, be mistaken for a passable budget (cheap and cheerful) modernization, with the same arrangement of the DS/grids

for the price one the new T-90A can be upgraded in this way two T-72B3

In the future, they could form a good mobile reserve when replaced after the start of production of the T-90AM or Almaty

[Lopatov]

Quote: Kars

You won’t spoil the porridge with oil. In fact, you completely screwed up.

Poor argument. Especially considering the cost of the radio fuse.

Quote: Kars

Quote: Spade

This is nonsense, accelerated in front of the target. It’s not possible to enter the range before the shot into the fuse, so some kind of radio fuse measuring the distance to the target in flight is needed to turn on the accelerator. It hurts hard
)))

Not all words are clear? Don't be shy, I'll explain.

Quote: Kars

Then how do BPS get there in general?

But the BOPS does not have an accelerator, which must be launched at the exact distance to the target. Attention, I repeated this for the third time It looks like the fool is getting the hang of it.

Quote: Kars

The fact that something will become when you prove that the Swedish fuses are simple.

Firstly, Swedish fuses have not existed for a long time; they use the technologies of their native BAE Systems
Secondly, their remote fuses are simple, and this is very good. because they are cheap and reliable. If you haven’t realized that I praised the Swedes, that’s your personal problem.

Quote: Kars

Made me laugh. Look at the bottom attachments of active rockets.

I looked. AND? Are they the size of a "crowbar" tracer? Even gas generators are several times larger in size.

Quote: Kars

By the way, where did you get this?

Need to read more. Google AHEAD and AVM

Quote: Kars

Well, you have to train you, maybe you’ll develop your thinking.

At least I have something to develop...

[ramsi]

I will, however, risk inserting a word into your dialogue: an accelerator for BOPS is unlikely, even if it is made about 3 cm in diameter - it’s just that the entire arrow is located in the detonation area of ​​the powder charge and it will not be easy for the auxiliary located in the tail section to survive. This means, after all, a caliber armor-piercing projectile, with a core (let it be 2 cm), followed by a pallet and explosives with a cumulative crater. Detonation - upon contact; you get the effect of hitting a nail with a hammer. I don’t know how it will work on armor, but it should work well on concrete. In terms of accuracy, you can’t win anything back here either. In general, if no one has done this, then it would be worth trying

[Kars]

Quote: ramsi

accelerator for BOPS - unlikely,

It may very well be, but the very fact that Lopatov messed up in his phrase...

Quote: Spade

This is nonsense - accelerated in front of the target. It will not be possible to enter the range into the fuse before firing, which means that some kind of radio fuse is needed that measures the range to the target in flight in order to turn on the accelerator. It's painfully difficult

Showing your deletantism. A radio fuse is not needed.

Quote: ramsi

is located in the area of ​​detonation of the powder charge and the one located in the tail section can survive

This is not a problem, the tracer is destroyed in the BPS

Quote: ramsi

This means, after all, a caliber armor-piercing projectile, with a core (let it be 2cm), followed by a pallet and explosives with a cumulative crater.

But this is no longer clear. If you are going to push the core with an explosion, then why a cumulative funnel?
There won’t be any special additional impulse to detonate when touched. It’s simpler than ordinary cumulative ammunition.

[ramsi]

Quote: Kars

Quote: ramsi

This means, after all, a caliber armor-piercing projectile, with a core (let it be 2cm), followed by a pallet and explosives with a cumulative crater.

But this is no longer clear. If you are going to push the core with an explosion, then why a cumulative funnel?
There won’t be any special additional impulse to detonate when touched. It’s simpler than ordinary cumulative ammunition.

I was just trying to develop Alex 241’s idea - to push the core with an explosion, and since I don’t know any other methods of directed explosion (we don’t have a muzzle?..), I suggested this one.

[Kars]

Quote: Spade

especially considering the cost of the radio fuse.

well, contact the Swedes. Also tell me that tungsten balls are foppishness)))

Quote: Spade

Not all words are clear? Don't be shy, I'll explain.

You’ve been puffing and puffing for twenty comments and you can’t get out of your mess.

Quote: Spade

Firstly, Swedish fuses have not existed for a long time; they use the technologies of their native BAE Systems

this is a particular thing.

Quote: Spade

Secondly, their remote fuses are simple

what do they have to do with it? and prove that they are simple? Compared to what are they simple? Will you personally make them at home?

Quote: Spade

If you haven’t realized that I praised the Swedes, that’s your personal problem.

You screwed up.

Quote: Spade

I looked. AND? Are they the size of a "crowbar" tracer? Even gas generators are several times larger in size.

And do they go beyond the boundaries of their projectile? What percentage of the projectile’s mass?

Quote: Spade

Need to read more. Google AHEAD and AVM

Would you make a quotation, and what do these AN____ have to do with the fuses I mentioned? By the way, what will happen if you shoot from a smoothbore gun?

Quote: Spade

At least I have something to develop...

It's a pity that you don't develop.

[Lopatov]

Quote: Kars

well, contact the Swedes

What should I contact? and it is clear that they did not have enough accuracy of the temporary fuse; they had to supplement it with a radar sensor. Fools, sir. They need to listen to Yxpert Kars more.

Quote: Kars

what do they have to do with it? and prove that they are simple? Compared to what are they simple?

It will be difficult for you to understand. I already wrote this to you once, but you didn’t understand. I will repeat. There are more complex remote fuses that incorporate flight time. However, due to deviations in the initial velocity of the projectile, the time needs to be corrected. Therefore, in the AHEAD system (which you know nothing about due to a ban on Google), the fuse receives data as it leaves the barrel, having received corrections from the device for measuring the velocity of the projectile in the barrel bore. It's difficult and expensive. The second, simpler option is remote fuses that count the number of revolutions of the projectile in flight. No particularly precise electronics, cheap and cheerful. And with sufficient accuracy. This is how the AVM system from Bofos’ native Bae Systems works

Quote: Kars

And do they go beyond the boundaries of their projectile? What percentage of the projectile’s mass?

Does it matter, Expert? Gas generators are designed solely to reduce the bottom effect.

[Kars]

Quote: Spade

What should I contact? and it is clear that they did not have enough accuracy of the temporary fuse; they had to supplement it with a radar sensor. Fools, sir. They need to listen to Yxpert Kars more.

Well, what you understand is unlikely. And the fact that the Swedes are shooting at them not at tanks, but at airplanes))) By the way, do the Swedes also lack a temporary fuse at hidden infantry with an explosion OVER?

Quote: Spade

It will be difficult for you to understand

Is it difficult for you to tell fairy tales?

Quote: Spade

I already wrote this to you once, but you didn’t understand. I will repeat. There are more complex remote fuses in which flight time is entered

Yes, everything is more complicated, but calling Swedish fuses for 40 mm Bofors SIMPLE)))

Quote: Spade

Therefore, in the AHEAD system (which you know nothing about due to the ban on Google), the fuse receives data when it leaves the barrel

In your opinion, is this a simplification or a complication? And by the way, what does this fairy tale of yours have to do with it when I copied and pasted it eleven comments ago (but you don’t read well when you’re worried)

Quote: Kars

The projectile fuse is programmable, i.e. can be set to one of six types of actions:
1) non-contact action, included only in the target area (air targets)
2) the same type of action with an increased direct hit priority (large air targets)
3) temporary (remote) action (small maneuverable and camouflaged ground and underwater targets)
4) contact (impact) action (ground and surface targets)
5) shock armor-piercing action (ground and surface targets)
6) non-contact action The type of action (programming) for each projectile is set immediately before the shot using the PFP (Proximity Fuze Programmer) software block,

And what does this have to do with your fairy tales?

Quote: Spade

And with sufficient accuracy. This is how the AVM system from Bofos’ native Bae Systems works

So this is how you confirm that you screwed up?

Quote: Spade

This is nonsense - accelerated in front of the target. It will not be possible to enter the range into the fuse before firing, which means that some kind of radio fuse is needed that measures the range to the target in flight in order to turn on the accelerator. Painfully complicated

As we can see, setting the trigger distance is not so difficult to launch an accelerator. By the way, what about the fact that the BPSs do not rotate along the trajectory but are stabilized by the tail?

Quote: Spade

Does it matter, Expert? Gas generators are designed solely to reduce the bottom effect.

And this, by the way, is also not a plus. And if you are familiar with Google, look at active rockets. And for OFS howitzers, additional speed is not a priority, they need recharge along the trajectory to increase the firing range. And yes, you forgot, you didn’t answered how much you were going to shoot - 2-3 km or 10-20 km.

[Lopatov]

Quote: Kars

.And the fact that the Swedes are not shooting at tanks, but at airplanes)))

This is a discovery. Only Kars is capable of delivering platitudes with such aplomb. With what. Actually, hitting a target called an “airplane” is different from hitting a target like a “tank” except that you need to hit a tank, but for an aircraft, being hit by shrapnel is enough?

Quote: Kars

Yes, everything is more complicated, but calling Swedish fuses for 40 mm Bofors SIMPLE)))

Only Kars is unable to distinguish the simple remote fuses I mentioned from the complex programmable radio fuses. He has something to do with the Tatars: advance, run, retreat, run...

Quote: Kars

Do you think this is a simplification or a complication?

I'll repeat it already the third time, this is a complication. You've become quite tight.

Quote: Kars

Copied and pasted eleven comments ago (but you don’t read well when you’re worried)
Quote: Kars
The projectile fuse is programmable, i.e. can be set to one of six types of actions:
1) non-contact action, included only in the target area (air targets)
2) the same type of action with an increased direct hit priority (large air targets)
3) temporary (remote) action (small maneuverable and camouflaged ground and underwater targets)
4) contact (impact) action (ground and surface targets)
5) shock armor-piercing action (ground and surface targets)
6) non-contact action The type of action (programming) for each projectile is set immediately before the shot using the PFP (Proximity Fuze Programmer) software block,
And what does this have to do with your fairy tales?

I will repeat to you for the eleventh time: KARS, THIS IS ANOTHER FUSE, THIS IS THE MODES OF THE MK2 RADIO FUSE You begin to surpass yourself in the art of fooling a fool.

Quote: Kars

As you can see, setting the trigger distance is not so difficult to launch the accelerator

I will repeat for the eleventh time IT IS NOT DIFFICULT TO SET IT IS DIFFICULT TO SET IT WITH SUFFICIENT ACCURACY

Quote: Kars

And this, by the way, is also not a plus.

It seems that Yxpert does not know what the bottom effect is. Which is not surprising. For scrap it is scanty by default.

[Apollo]

Quote: Spade

I will repeat to you for the eleventh time:

I understand you've lost count.

Quote: Spade

IT IS NOT DIFFICULT TO SET IT IS DIFFICULT TO SET IT WITH SUFFICIENT ACCURACY

So you highlighted and wrote Kars in large print, but if that doesn’t help, what then?!

[Lopatov]

Then I gave up, honestly. It won't be funny anymore.

[Kars]

Quote: Spade

This is a discovery. Only Kars is capable of delivering platitudes with such aplomb.

But you apparently didn’t know. Or do you think that the tank and the plane have approximately the same speed))))

Quote: Spade

Only Kars is unable to distinguish the simple remote fuses I mentioned from the complex programmable radio fuses. He says something to the Tatars: advance, run, retreat, run.

Simple ones? Are you going to assemble them yourself at home with your eyes closed? And I was talking specifically about fuses for 40 mm Bofors.

Quote: Spade

I will repeat for the third time, this is a complication. You've become quite tight.

If it’s a complication, then why are you writing this?

Quote: Spade

I’ll repeat to you for the eleventh time: KARS, THIS IS ANOTHER FUSE, THIS IS THE MODES OF THE MK2 RADIO FUSE

and I wrote about some other fuses besides the Swedish 40 mm?

Quote: Spade

It seems that Yxpert does not know what the bottom effect is. Which is not surprising. For scrap it is scanty by default.

Therefore, the effect of an additional accelerator will be to increase speed.
But let's return to our sheep - there is your LAZHE.

Quote: Spade

This is nonsense - accelerated in front of the target. It will not be possible to enter the range into the fuse before firing, which means that some kind of radio fuse is needed that measures the range to the target in flight in order to turn on the accelerator. Painfully complicated

So you agree that what I wrote was wrong and I was absolutely right when I wrote it

Quote: Kars

Why won’t this work? If we put the engine on a BOPS, then what’s the problem with a programmable fuse? The Swedes even use 40 mm shells, and with programming while the shell is in the gun

And there is no need to try to dodge and move away from the topic ---

Quote: Kars

Then how do BPS get at all? And what accuracy do you need if the trajectory is forgiven by the computer, taking into account the final acceleration? Which starts at a DETERMINED point of the trajectory of limes in advance. And do you still consider yourself an artilleryman?

I’ll ask you, in essence, to at least expect something like this from Lapatov (much like in the joke about smyatsa after the word l...)

[Lopatov]

In short, that's all. The discussion with you, as usual, has entered the phase when you have finally turned on the fool, and any of your questions can be answered with quotes from what was written earlier.

This is no longer interesting.

[Kars]

Quote: Spade

This is no longer interesting.

You wouldn't be embarrassed))) before that you were kind of interested))

Quote: Spade

when you finally turned on the fool,

And you wrote this three times. But you don’t turn it on, but live in this state all the time.

Quote: Kars

But let's return to our sheep - there is your LAZHE.


Quote: Spade
This is nonsense - accelerated in front of the target. It will not be possible to enter the range into the fuse before firing, which means that some kind of radio fuse is needed that measures the range to the target in flight in order to turn on the accelerator. Painfully complicated

So you agree that what I wrote was wrong and I was absolutely right when I wrote it

Quote: Kars
Why won’t this work? If we put the engine on a BOPS, then what’s the problem with a programmable fuse? The Swedes even use 40 mm shells, and with programming while the shell is in the gun

And there is no need to try to dodge and move away from the topic ---
Quote: Kars
Then how do BPS get at all? And what accuracy do you need if the trajectory is forgiven by the computer, taking into account the final acceleration? Which starts at a DETERMINED point of the trajectory of limes in advance. And do you still consider yourself an artilleryman?

I’ll ask you, in essence, to at least expect something like this from Lapatov (much like in the joke about smyatsa after the word l...)

And this is for the finale

Quote: Kars

And do you still consider yourself an artilleryman after this?

[Cormorants]

The T-72 is a good tank, but everything has a certain time, and its time has unfortunately passed, a new tank is needed.

[Irokez]

I think not everything is as scary and gloomy as they described and scared.
We have experience in waging war and the T-72 in it - this is Chechnya and right now Syria.
The main thing, I think, is that communication devices, reconnaissance, and so on have been improved, and armor can always be hung in any part in the workshops in 1-2 days if there is something to hang, of course. In peacetime, this armored body kit is rather unnecessary, but in conflicts it will immediately appear (IMHO).
And in anticipation of the upcoming “Armata”, what’s the point of hanging outdated hardware for that kind of money, even if it’s very good. Maybe they will supply it abroad soon.
In general, in cooperation with Ukraine, you can give them the T-64, T-80, and take the T-72 from them and work in this specialization and can serve common buyers - there would be a desire on both sides, and buyers will be found with appropriate advertising and government support.
But having become closer to the EU, Ukraine can sell the T-72 at the cost of scrap metal, and this is very offensive and unpleasant when such a tank is purely for scrap. At least give it to Syria for spare parts so as not to irritate the West.

[Aleks tv]

Quote: Irokez

In peacetime, this armored body kit is rather unnecessary, but in conflicts it will immediately appear

Sergey, for some reason he doesn’t show up when he needs to.

Maybe the magic wand is missing... I don't know.

There really is experience. And it's not that expensive.
But there is no "gloom". There is "reality".

[Irokez]

We probably have too good economists that they save on everything. But on the basis of the T-72 you can make so many “Terminators” and this would probably be quite useful for Syria right now.

[DesToeR]

The article is good! It’s a pity that it’s like in 41: the gun is good, but the crew is blind. The “hunter-shooter” principle is not implemented in this modification.

[Boot under the carpet]

Oooh, I enjoyed reading the article. I myself served in the communications company of Uncle Vasya’s troops and finally... Aqueduct! In my time, he was highly anticipated among the troops))) Of course, I’m weak in tanks, but one pressing question arose! What kind of conflicts were these tanks prepared for??? There will be no front, that's for sure! Local conflicts are possible, but there will be no global tank battles! Now the main weapon is information and crazy Islam, which the author correctly pointed out in the article about bearded men with seven in the windows of houses! They will fire projectiles into unprotected areas of vehicles...

[Dimon-chik-79]

The article is very good, detailed! And like a tub of cold water on the back, exhibitions, shows they say we will give the Russian army all the best. And in the end, they put on stream a simplified version of modernization that is simply impossible. Why can’t the tank be fully stuffed, because everything has been developed. Why regret it for your own army? Oh, these head-assed ghouls, they can’t sit in them anyway! But it’s a good idea to put one of these smart guys in a tank and hit one of the “bald spots”, then others will definitely start moving and will not spare any money for the country and Russian tank crews!
By the way, biathlon was also not encouraging due to a bunch of equipment failures

[Jager]

I have always been surprised by one interesting fact - if this is modernization, then it implies the installation of the most advanced units and mechanisms. This is not a TAZ, it is a combat vehicle, the result of which is the destruction of the enemy. Moreover, the enemy is resisting with all available firepower.
B3 is not a modernization, it is a VARIANT of the T-72.
The fighting compartment resembles the interior of a VAZ 2107, where a Chinese navigator sits next to a 30-year-old design. Poor and clumsy. It’s the XNUMXst century, the information age, microcircuits and semiconductor devices, and here again are bolts and fittings.
T-72B3 is a semblance of modernization. Well, why is there a damn cloud of various tank modifications in the army with equipment that is not interchangeable in field conditions? Launch a series of one, but really thoughtful and perfect.
Although how could I forget, this does not mean cutting the dough... And let the 18-year-old “Vanyas” burn in steel coffins, give birth to more children, don’t mind. Ugh!

[Irokez]

Quote: Jager

Well, why is there a damn cloud of various tank modifications in the army with equipment that is not interchangeable in field conditions? Launch a series of one, but really thoughtful and perfect.

Modernization always takes place during long production of both tanks and aircraft, and they are always slightly different.
And they will soon put into production one vehicle, probably the T-90 and the Armata, but what to do with the rest? So they are trying to somehow improve it, but give us the money and at least hang the T-34 with all sorts of cacatronics and there will be happiness. As they say, “A shoemaker without boots,” that is, everyone is on the side - please, because there is profit, and for yourself the rest will do.
Considering a bunch of other weapons of destruction and suppression, a tank is not the most important unit, especially in the city and mountains, and in the forests too, and no one fights in an open field anymore.
Iraq doesn’t count, they bought everything there and suppressed it before the tanks arrived and Abrams ended up on the horse.

[Jager]

This year marks 40 years since the T-1973 was put into service in 72. During this period, the vehicle should have been equipped not with a manually operated ROM and a bolt-on sight cover, but with an imaginary blaster and a vertical take-off and landing device, and with the function of launching anti-satellite missiles using the KUV (irony). It must be admitted that since it was put into service, the tank has never been COMPLEXLY modernized. Yes, they “finished” the defense (not radically), the fire control system, communications, etc.
I would like to draw your attention to how the Germans are modernizing the Leopard-2 (Bundeswehr MBT, Russian T-72 MBT, so there is no need to push forward the relatively small T-90 here). 2A4 (the same age as the T-72B) and 2A7 are radically redesigned vehicles. Compare similar modernization of B and B3. The weapon has been thoroughly modernized. That's all.
For a modern war, a new tank is needed; it is not possible to “match” the T-72 in terms of armor protection, maneuverability, armament, and ergonomics due to the lack of a serious modernization groundwork for the project. However, this is the problem with all Soviet tanks. So hope is in "Armata".
And for the “massacre of Papuans” like Syria or Latin America, a deeply modernized T-55 will do.

[bubble82009]

The modernization of the tank was carried out with one goal, how to get more money into their pockets. The General Staff thinks about their pockets, but not about the lives of the soldiers. I don’t even understand how a tanker in a pea coat can quickly get out of such a hatch in winter without getting caught on something. Another. crawling into the tank turret, the tankman in dirty shoes jumps on his seat. What if these lumps of dirt get somewhere and jam something? who thought of this?
Of course they'll make me laugh. but excuse me, but I consider the comfort of the crew during work to be not unimportant things. If the crew, after a 100 km march across an intersection, has to engage in battle, what will happen? At the tank biathlon it was clearly visible how many tank crews had broken foreheads. If only their tank creators had hit their products, what would have happened?

[Alekseev]

Everything is correct, for God's sake don't be offended, but the phrase

Quote: bublic82009

I don’t even understand how a tanker in a pea coat can quickly get out of such a hatch in winter without getting caught on something. Another. crawling into the tank turret, the tankman in dirty shoes jumps on his seat.

, had a lot of fun!
I remembered something about “pregnant cockroaches”, my first company commander, how he, however, obscenely “criticizing” us at TST (at that time it was called not fire, but tank-infantry training), within seconds he took out a machine-gun belt that had fallen into the MZ, which we, due to our awkwardness at that time, could not do...
Yes, in order to work in a tank, you need training, there is nothing to do in a pea coat (a tank driver's overalls, without patch pockets) and you can't wear anything too thick either.
Well, dirt is more typical for UUS, during combat use they often don’t leave the tank, you can also get replacement shoes (galoshes) or stockings from the OZK!

[Kvaigon]

Good afternoon,
Don’t scold me too much, maybe the topic is not the right one, or the place is not the right one, but I would like to ask a question that has been interesting to me for a long time, specifically about the T-72 tank.
Why does the ammunition rack detonate when it hits the tank turret (there is plenty of video)??

[Aleks tv]

Quote: Kvaigon

Why does the ammunition rack detonate when it hits the tank turret (there is plenty of video)??

Ilya, the video on the internet is what it’s all about “will" look.
No one will post unsuccessful shots. Do you agree?

In principle, any tank can be destroyed, even the most sophisticated one.
Regarding the explosions: NO ONE IS THE SAME. Everyone is unique and one of a kind.
Most often, the "seven" does not penetrate the armor, the crew simply "shakes", you feel how the internal organs collide.
Most often, when the T-72B is blown up, it continues to move (an amazing machine), smoke appears and you feel a very specific smell of the triggered PPO (you can’t compare it with anything and it’s very painful then).
The crew is trying to get the car out of the line of fire ANYWHERE, so that everyone has the opportunity to get out, including the heroic (no sarcasm) mechanic.
After that, everyone leaves the car, tries to be heroic, and wait for what will happen to her.
- If it stops smoking, then they return to it and prepare for towing or... continue to “Work” (depending on the severity of the shell-shock and the recklessness of the crew).
- If the assembly line pulled off the AZ (with the mandatory flight of the tower), then ... get baptized and climb into another platoon tank or go to bow to the infantry commander.
MOSTLY, THESE ARE JOURNALISTS WHO FILM IT.
They themselves later said that they needed a “zest” (ur.dy), otherwise the editor wouldn’t understand.
Those. if there is a torn tank, this does not mean that the crew always dies.

Why does detonation occur:
- If the “jet” went inside, then you get injured from any crap flying inside, and not from the thinnest liquid metal. Dangerous pressure is created that can kill people, which is why the hatches are opened. If the penetration is partial, then you remain inside, but concussion is guaranteed, the fire extinguishes itself. If the PPO is dead, then heating from the fire and detonation are possible, and not always and not immediately, there is time (theoretically) to get out.
- If the jet clearly hits the CHARGE located in the fighting compartment (not in the AZ), then instant fire occurs under extreme pressure, if it is thrown out through the open hatch with this pressure, then the turrets have a chance of life, but it is small (the mechanic does not) . The PPO will not have time to cope.
- If a jet clearly hits a PROJECTILE in the same fighting compartment (not in the AZ), then there is an instant detonation, but this is only when it hits the HE... for some reason everyone forgets about this. PPO also does not have time to cope.

Getting into the AZ itself is quite difficult.
To do this, you need to turn the side screen with boxes into trash or break the road wheels. Only under these conditions is it possible to get to the AZ conveyor, what will happen in this case - I wrote above. And who will allow this to the bearded man?
Those. you need several aimed shots from the "seven" at one point, which is not so simple. And here Tactics comes into its own. This is a separate conversation.

Have you seen a lot of bombings in YouTube with “boxes” or FULLY closed sides?
And in Syria, the first export T-72s (object 172A) are still “operating”, with simplified unclassified armor, a mechanical ballistic computer, an optical rangefinder, old (removed from service in the Russian Federation) shots and an R-123 radio station.

I repeat once again: there are no tanks that cannot be blown up.
The T-72B is quite durable and needs to be PREPARE for “Work”:
General safety rules (I will not talk about tactics):
- "Boxes" are equipped.
- The solarium is drained from the external tanks.
- B / c from the tower removed (except, of course, AZ).
- PPO refueled and serviceable.
“The hatches in the tower are open.”
This is what I remembered vskidku.

Ilya, and this is just my opinion, and nothing more. Ask others.

[Kvaigon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=yUMnpCViJLw - видно плохо, но разобрать можно что огонь ведут с ПТУРа попадание в башню. Ну пусть пробитие, ну пусть убит член экипажа куда попала ракета, но почему подрыв всей машины?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=TOiaN0COydU - вообще одна башня торчит, и все равно подрыв всей машины?????

[sapran]

detonation only provided that an open source of fire or a red-hot fragment (fragment) has reached the charges in the AZ or in non-mechanized stowage, since the charge consists of a container (metal) and a paper (flammable) sleeve packaging powder rods of tubes, sometimes an explosive type of combustion is observed or at the same time Several neighboring charges ignite, causing the tower to sometimes be torn down...

[Aleks tv]

Quote: Kvaigon

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=yUMnpCViJLw

Quote: Kvaigon

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=TOiaN0COydU

Ilya, please re-read my post again...

Once again, for a significant number of unsuccessful explosions there are several effective launches. THEY ARE THE ONE THAT GOES ON THE INTERNET.

Please note again that these are OLD vehicles and are NOT PROTECTED against RPGs and ATGMs.
By the way, in the first video: it looks like a hit in charge, located in the fighting compartment, and not in the AZ, which is not desirable (placement in a non-mechanized ammunition rack).

Equipment needs to be PREPARE and EQUIPPED for “Work”.

[Maxxx]

I’m shocked) the commander doesn’t see anything, the radio is about to break, the machine gun is light, there is no protection. Are we still giving birth???

[cth; fyn]

Like the gun got better, but it became harder for the gunner to work, well, well, as always, everything was done through F.
Like they strengthened the forehead of a modern KDZ, but removed the rest of the Contact blocks, well, what a buzz.
Like they installed a new walkie-talkie with encryption, but even if it breaks, as they say: you did everything right.
I would like to wish our tank crews a meteor shower over the General Staff and the absence of any armed conflicts until the moment when we all transfer to Armata.

[2я19]

In short: there was no army, no, and no plans! The working donkey of the Soviet army, after all the modernizations, will be able to successfully participate in combat operations against an enemy that does not have ANY means of combating armored targets, all that remains is nonsense, to find such an enemy! And it’s also interesting, do guys with big stars seriously consider ZPU PKT exactly as ZPU? And even from a moving tank? Is IT there in its offices going to fight with whom? Halkin Golov is not planned!

[Alekseev]

Quote: 2я19

In short: there was no army, no, and no plans!

That is unlikely! It was there a long time ago, but it is planned to restore it. How will it be? We'll see...

Quote: 2я19

The working donkey of the Soviet army, after all the modernizations, will be able to successfully participate in combat operations against an enemy that does not have ANY means of combating armored targets

Maybe, maybe, if only "ZPU PKT" fix it! And, most importantly, (h.., with it ZPU PKT) to establish order in the tank forces.

[Aleks tv]

Quote: Alekseev

if only the "ZPU PKT" can be established!

[newcomer]

I watched the tank biathlon (it would be better if I didn’t watch it)... I was very surprised that our tanks (those that sting with fire and sparkle with the brilliance of steel) while standing still (that is, not in motion) manage NOT TO HIT!!!!! into a stationary target the size of a tank from a distance of 1 kilometer!!! Hello guys, tank crews, who are you going to fight with? with the Germans on PzIII and PzIV. We would be ashamed to show this disgrace on the central channel...

[Aleks tv]

Quote: newbie

Hello guys, tank crews, who are you going to fight with?

Well, there is no need to generalize...
- The 3rd UKS on the tank director is carried out “on the move.”
- Test driving at the tank track will be more difficult.

Tankers of linear units perform all this with “excellent” and “good” qualities on a MASSIVE basis.
Babai knows what happened to them at the biathlon. There are many versions.

[Alekseev]

Well Alexey, you've done a lot of business!
Lots of opinions, some good and some not so good. But this is not important, what is more important is that people are not indifferent to the topic.
I have another question that may be interesting to others.
I haven’t personally used a thermal imager, does it project an image of the terrain and target into the sight’s eyepiece? If so, then why the display? Or only on the display? If so, then it seems more difficult to figure out whether the gun is pointed at 30-00 or 60-00 (roughly speaking).

[Aleks tv]

Quote: Alekseev

Well Alexey, you've done a lot of business!
Lots of opinions, some good and some not so good. But this is not important, what is more important is that people are not indifferent to the topic.

Namesake, I’m not knitting...

And people are partial to tanks, yeah. Historically.
This makes me happy.

[Alex 241]

Hello Lesh, we can’t go anywhere without tanks, as in the old Soviet joke: And my dad travels abroad in a tank

[Aleks tv]

Quote: Alex 241

And my dad travels abroad in a tank

Wow, Sanya showed up! Lost.

Tell us, two Lech tankmen:
Why do you need a screen for a thermal imager? What is not so visible in the eyepiece? Or how ?
Our aviation is more advanced in terms of instruments...

[Alex 241]

In aviation, all information during the operation of heat direction finders or thermal channels is displayed on the HUD (windshield indicator), on which the flight parameters, TP operation, strobes and target mark are displayed. The general picture is displayed on the display, but target tracking, capture, up to the issuance of the PR command ( launch is allowed) all the information is on the HUD, I think this is implemented in tank systems, because almost all the attention is focused on optical surveillance systems and not on electronic ones.

[Aleks tv]

Quote: Alex 241

All information in aviation

Hmm ...
For you, it will be more complicated, of course.

But we just can’t understand:
If there is a sighting sight in a tank fire control system, then what is the need for a monitor?
Additional for convenience?
We just haven’t used it, so we don’t know...

[Alex 241]

Lesh, what is the field of view angle of the visor? (if this is not classified information)

[Aleks tv]

Quote: Alex 241

What is the field of view angle?

For TPD-K1:
Field of view 9 degrees at 8x magnification.
Quite narrow. Therefore, the gunner sees only the target, and finding it is the commander’s task; he has a wider field of view.

At Sosna-U (I didn’t bother filling the article with this information):

Sight channel:
The field of view angle at 4x magnification is 12 degrees.
The viewing angle at 12x is 4 degrees.

Thermal Imaging Channel:
Wavelength 8-12 microns.
Line of sight:
Wide - 9X6,75.
Narrow - 3X2,25.
With electronic zoom – 1,5X1,12

[Alex 241]

Lesh, it seems to me that the thermal imaging channel converts parallel information into serial information and outputs it to the sighting channel. Are they connected? Or am I mistaken?

[Aleks tv]

Quote: Alex 241

Are they related?

The interface equipment is definitely there.
It seems to be for this purpose.

[Alex 241]

Well, Lesh, we get an indicator of the tactical situation on the display, with target distribution, designation of targets for attack, and display it on the sighting sight. This is my tramp opinion.

[Aleks tv]

Quote: Alex 241

Well, Lesh, we get an indicator of the tactical situation on the display, with target distribution, designation of targets for attack, and display it on the sighting sight. This is my tramp opinion.

Nunifigasebeeprst...
Thank you, San, for the explanations!

[Alex 241]

Hello San. Lesh, these are just my assumptions.

[studentmati]

quote=Alex 241]Hi San. Lesh, these are just my assumptions.[/quote]

Hello friends!

Very often, brainstorming “pseudo-incompatible” directions (such as tanks and airplanes) leads to brilliant solutions! This is the normal logic of the designer!

[Alex 241]

San, Lesh, why is it such a long way from idea to implementation?

[Aleks tv]

Quote: studentmati

Hello friends!

Mind you, I’ll make a wish, just between two Alexanders.

[studentmati]

Quote: Aleks tv

Mind you, I’ll make a wish, just between two Alexanders.

I am sure that we have one desire - the prosperity and well-being of the Fatherland! For this I propose a toast! Sanya and Alexey do you support?

[Aleks tv]

Quote: studentmati

prosperity and prosperity of the Fatherland!

SUCH a toast, and even... let's think about it for THREE!

[Alex 241]

Well then, my traditional way! Let's live!

[studentmati]

Quote: Alex 241

Will live!

We are given no other choice!

[Alex 241]

By the way, Sash, a balm for your wounds, the guys at work whispered that work on MS-21 is underway.

[studentmati]

Quote: Alex 241

the guys at work whispered that work on MS-21 was underway.

The work has been going on for a long time! Thanks, I'm aware. The sad thing is that this will be another farce!

[studentmati]

Quote: Alex 241

Sasha, they seem to have taken it seriously. The Myasishchevites are not populists. These are the ones who have taken it. Yes, you know it yourself

Wonderful story? Looking back to the last Age (In which we were born!, How fast does time fly?).???

So that's what I mean? Myasishchev was infinitely trusting! He always took on an idea with great enthusiasm, which was always taken away from him under various plausible pretexts.

Wait and see! At one time, Dementyev said about Vladimir Mikhailovich that “Myasishchev’s projects will be implemented when everyone forgets our graves...” Maybe it’s not time yet? And it seems to me that the MS-21 is not from the Myasishchev theme?

[Alex 241]

I also turned on Sasha’s brains, the Yakovlevites were working. But both Myasishchevtsev and Ilyushentsev will be involved in the work. And the Pogosyans will skim the cream.

[Alex 241]

San 4 hangars were rebuilt, I’ll post a photo on the 25th.

[studentmati]

Quote: Alex 241

San 4 hangars were rebuilt, I’ll post a photo on the 25th.

Remembered !!!

Pavel Osipovich at one time asked Vladimir Mikhailovich to give him for a while his luxurious assembly shop in which he assembled the M-17 to complete the T-4.
In exchange, Pavel Osipovich offered help “to quickly put the M-17 on the wing.” Mikhalych did not think for a long time, refused Osipovich, under the pretext that he would use the workshop and would not want to return it.... Competition!?

[Alex 241]

Sasha then it was called cooperation, and Myasishchev also had plans..............

[studentmati]

San, am I starting to have doubts about the M-25 issue? Have I looked through everything I have and can’t find anything? Even mentions of theoretical developments? After work on the M-50 and modifications, work began on space.

[Alex 241]

Sasha, I have only one guess - it’s classified. Let’s look at the appearance of PAK YES, then it will become clear.

[studentmati]

Quote: Alex 241

Sasha, I have only one guess - it’s classified. Let’s look at the appearance of PAK YES, then it will become clear.

Patience is for the strong!

[Alex 241]

Sasha, “packet” arrangement of engines on top, can you imagine the volume of the bomb bay? Yes, you can stuff Leshka in there along with the tank!

[studentmati]

Quote: Alex 241

Sasha, “packet” arrangement of engines on top, can you imagine the volume of the bomb bay? Yes, you can stuff Leshka in there along with the tank!

The drawing is futuristic. Such developments could not have happened. The idea of ​​a lot of Machs implies a huge space for fuel, where is it? The wing is narrow, the fuselage is limited?

[Alex 241]

Sasha’s latest prototype was supposed to be about 100 meters long, since 1972 everything has been classified as Soviet secret.

[studentmati]

Quote: Alex 241

Sasha’s latest prototype was supposed to be about 100 meters long, since 1972 everything has been classified as Soviet secret.

It is quite possible, knowing Vladimir Mikhailovich, even very possible! Everything has its time, our graves have not yet been forgotten...

[Alex 241]

Sasha, God knows, what the patriarch has done, but it’s definitely something.....since all traces have been cleared, there is only information that the scale models at TsAGI were blown.

[studentmati]

Quote: Alex 241

Sasha, God knows, what the patriarch has done, but it’s definitely something.....since all traces have been cleared, there is only information that the scale models at TsAGI were blown.

Of course, under his leadership, purely by accident and not intentionally, as always!

[Alex 241]

What do you say, Sash?

[svp67]

And here is a computer model of that “miracle”

[studentmati]

Quote: Alex 241

What do you say, Sash?

PACK YES!

I hate this acronym!

Tupolev, with all due respect to him, always sat on Myasishchev’s neck. Here too there is a hybrid!

[Alex 241]

Quote: studentmati

Tupolev, with all due respect to him

I scolded Myasishchev, and do you remember his accusations to the Tu-104 pilots when the pickup began: You don’t know how to fly!

[studentmati]

Quote: Alex 241

I scolded Myasishchev, and do you remember his accusations to the Tu-104 pilots when the pickup began: You don’t know how to fly!

Andrei Nikolaevich is primarily a politician and opportunist. Vladimir Mikhailovich designer and practitioner!!! Price and respect!!!

[Alex 241]

San, you know how to make such a contribution in such a short time.

[studentmati]

Quote: Alex 241

San, you know how to make such a contribution in such a short time.

75 is a respectable term!!! /Another thing is that Vladimir Mikhailovich “didn’t promote himself”, but worked hard, that’s all the contribution in a short time!

[svp67]

Quote: Alex 241

Yes, you can push Leshka in there along with a tank!

All you flyers need to “stuff” something exotic into the bomb bay, they started with a cow, you see, take him to the next cordon, and now Leshka with the tanks...where are you taking him?

[Alex 241]

Quote: svp67

Leshka with tanks...where are you taking him?

Seryozh exclusively to the nearest beer kiosk

[svp67]

Quote: Alex 241

Seryozh exclusively to the nearest beer kiosk

It will be noisy, aren't you afraid of breaking the dishes?

[Aleks tv]

Quote: svp67

All you flyers need to “stuff” something exotic into the bomb bay, they started with a cow, you see, take him to the next cordon, and now Leshka with the tanks...where are you taking him?

Sergey, just give them free rein.

By the way, today (a little higher in the comments), we talked with Sanya about thermal imagers, which I think is very interesting (visual and television surveillance at Sosny-U).
I slightly reset the performance characteristics of the sight, which was not included in the article, Sanya commented.
Alekseev came up with the idea to discuss it.

[svp67]

Quote: Aleks tv

By the way, today (a little higher in the comments), we talked with Sanya about thermal imagers, which I think is very interesting (visual and television surveillance at Sosny-U).

Such issues cannot be resolved with a “kandochka”, but I’m tired today, tomorrow I’ll look with a fresh mind... now I don’t want to “smite the fever” of the impression.

[Alex 241]

Well, I only have to live until morning

[svp67]

Guys, well, this is almost like Vysotsky. As there...
“here we agree, tell Seryoga. Once he sleeps it off, he will OF COURSE say...”

[svp67]

You give so much interesting material that it’s a pity to watch it “soon”, it needs to be comprehended...

[studentmati]

Quote: svp67

You give so much interesting material that it’s a pity to watch it “soon”, it needs to be comprehended...

"......well spii Seryoga....."

Morning evening wiser! Let's break through!!!

[svp67]

Quote: studentmati

"......well spii Seryoga....."

Quote: studentmati

Break through !!!

Ah, THAT!!!

[Alex 241]

San Yakovlev's developments should work out.

[Thunderbolt]

Quote: studentmati

this will be another farce!

Sasha, in a commercial sense? After all, our “air companies” are hungry for this class of aircraft, even though they are fed from over the hill.

[studentmati]

Quote: Thunderbolt

Sasha, in a commercial sense? After all, our “air companies” are hungry for this class of aircraft, even though they are fed from over the hill.

Hi Aleksey! The other day, the daughter of an Aeroflot airline was publicly married in the Far East. You know! There were Zero speeches about Russian cars! Conclusion? Our manufacturers are paid. Unfortunately!

[Thunderbolt]

The answer is clear, temporary workers, or rather herostrati, although you wouldn’t think it, because everything is so orderly. Okay, everything is clear, thank you.

[Thunderbolt]

Quote: studentmati

For this I propose a toast! Sanya and Alexey

Alexei and Sani, I join you !That's why we won't sit down now-We're all happy. You can't argue with Fibonacci... For the Motherland!

[Alex 241]

Hello Lesh, damn the whole “gang” has gathered

[Thunderbolt]

Hello Sash! WE are not a gang --- We are a squad

[Alex 241]

Well then for the first squad

[studentmati]

Quote: Alex 241

Hello Lesh, damn the whole “gang” has gathered

For us, for you and for all of us!

[Aleks tv]

Quote: Thunderbolt

Alexei and Sani, I join you

Greetings, namesake!

[svp67]

Quote: Alex 241

Well, Lesh, we get an indicator of the tactical situation on the display, with target distribution, assignment of targets for attack, and display it on the sighting sight.

You won’t let me sleep, you’ll interest me, and then the person’s brain will “boil” from trying to understand the meaning of complex words...
Of course, it’s an interesting idea, but WHY does the gunner need such information? I mean general stop and tasks? If only for a specific defeat of a target... Here it is necessary that new opportunities appear at the COMPANY level, namely in terms of reconnaissance. It is necessary to constantly monitor the battlefield, both from the “sky” - a UAV, and from the “ground” - some kind of electronic radio-thermal imaging device, ABOUT HOW .
That is, something like PRP.

And all this, in real time, can be combined and presented on the screens of the tactical situation to the commanders, and let him give target designations to the gunner...on his screen. Yes, the system is not the simplest, but it significantly increases the combat capabilities of not only the tank, but also entire units...

[Aleks tv]

Quote: svp67

That is, something like PRP.

Recently there was information that they were trying to stuff the artillery Kapustnik-B onto the TB commander’s tank...
Purpose: reconnaissance and fire control of the entire unit.
He's not small:
http://www.vniisignal.ru/ru/activity/systems
On a separate car it would be better to fasten it to the TV. The Aqueduct has the ability to transmit information in various ways.
Eheh... dreamers.

[studentmati]

Quote: Aleks tv

Hmm...For you, it will be more complicated, of course. But we just can’t understand: If there is a sighting sight in a tank fire control system, then why bother with a monitor? Additional for convenience? We just didn’t use it, so we don’t know

The speeds are different, to put it mildly, so the approach is different.

[Aleks tv]

Quote: studentmati

Speeds are different to say the least

There is such a letter.

[Alex 241]

The task is one - to destroy the enemy, so the approaches and algorithms for operating the equipment are similar.

[Aleks tv]

Quote: Alex 241

The task is one - to destroy the enemy, so the approaches and algorithms for operating the equipment are similar.

These are the kind of comments I love...
No kidding. Knowledge is power.
Explained sensibly, San.

[studentmati]

Quote: Alex 241

The task is one - to destroy the enemy, so the approaches and algorithms for operating the equipment are similar.

Sanya, our thoughts came together again at the same time at 22:36!? Maybe it makes sense to go to a psychiatrist......?

We will not go to any psycho, we just need to remain the way we grew up and were raised, and raise a worthy replacement for ourselves!

[Alex 241]

San, if we go to a psychiatrist, we’ll put so much stress on him that he’ll hang himself out of grief Lesh, as they taught: we arrive, we win, we fly away.

[Aleks tv]

Quote: Alex 241

we arrive we win we fly away

[studentmati]

Quote: Alex 241

San, if we go to a psychiatrist, we’ll put so much stress on him that he’ll hang himself out of grief

That's exactly what I meant! us... what... stupid!

[Aleks tv]

Quote: Alekseev

I haven’t personally used a thermal imager, does it project an image of the terrain and target into the sight’s eyepiece? If so, then why the display? Or only on the display?

Well, I didn’t touch him... About the same question arose, we need to try the flyers, maybe they know.
Or one of the existing tank crews will tell me, we’ll wait and ask around.

Based on the display above, I expressed concern:
We are accustomed to the “visual” collection of visual information. And television... you need to get the hang of it...

[svp67]

Quote: Alekseev

If so, then it seems more difficult to figure out whether the gun is pointed at 30-00 or 60-00 (roughly speaking).

It’s also impossible to make out this with a regular optical sight; for this there is a “separate gun position indicator”

[Alekseev]

Quote: svp67

It’s also impossible to make out this with a regular optical sight; for this there is a “separate gun position indicator”

That's for sure, there is. And even with him, it happens that inexperienced soldiers ride along the return path from the ceasefire line with a cannon looking at the local control point. Especially at night.
Looking through the scope, you see the terrain, so to speak, in front of the gun. The head and eyes are directed along the axis of the gun.
And here (perhaps, I don’t know for sure, that’s why I’m asking) you need to turn your head to the left 90 degrees. Maybe, of course, this is nothing more than a matter of habit?

[svp67]

Quote: newbie

manage to NOT HIT!!!!! into a stationary target the size of a tank from a distance of 1 kilometer!!! Hello guys, tank crews, who are you going to fight with?

But because ANY shooting falls into the category of “martial art”. And this art must be learned “in a real way...”

[moskal68]

No time to read. So, is modification normal? I love tanks with passion. I collect models.

[newcomer]

tanks are Hitler's favorite toys... (I'm not hinting at anything) so, by the way...

[svp67]

Quote: newbie

tanks are Hitler's favorite toys... (I'm not hinting at anything) so, by the way...

These “toys” are used to serve, often fight, and sometimes living people die, what kind of toys are there...

[svp67]

Quote: Alex 241

that the scale models at TsAGI were blown.

Alex, but this TsAGI model is something “painfully familiar”...

[Ram chandra]

The war in Syria once again proved the reliability of the T-72. Thanks to the author.

[gallville]

If you look at it, any tank from the T-64, T-72, T80 series can be brought to, if not completely modern (due to the basic layout), then to a more than acceptable level.
But given this modernization, I remember the words from the cartoon “Prostokvashino” - “we have money, but we have no brains.”
What’s most striking about the B3 is not even the placement of the remote control (it can be delivered if it’s too hot) or the lack of ROM for the commander, which, although it costs money, was implemented back in the T-80. And the installation of the Pine sight and the optics cover are bolted.
This is where it was necessary to think in order to replace the additional sight with a modern main one, and even install it in such a way that it is simply impossible to use it in real databases and even while moving. And the bolted cover is simply beyond comment.
To summarize, we can come to the conclusion that modernization is essentially mediocre. And its only real advantage is the installation of a modernized gun and automatic loader - although before that they were quite normal.
The rest of the money, incl. and spent on electronics are drained down the drain.
Another point that is striking is the slipping information that the tanks for modernization come from existing units, i.e. they were in service, and some saw actual combat. What does this mean?
This suggests that overhauling a vehicle that fought is definitely more expensive than a vehicle that was mothballed at a storage base. It's no secret that at one time tanks came there directly from factories. If we take into account the last fact, what about a 30 million overhaul? rub. you can speak? (20 million for equipment).
Yes, not all bases met the storage conditions, but out of all the mass in storage, it really wasn’t possible to find those few hundred for modernization. After all, by 2015, this particular B3 model will be the main one in the active forces, except for the T-90. And in the event of a conflict, it is they who will have to take the blow until the reinforcement arrives in the required quantity.

[Aleks tv]

Everyone was haunted by the question that the article immediately called into question...
Quote from part 1 of the article:

On the UVZ website it is still written in the section “cannon of the modernized T-72”: 2A46M or 2A46M-5. Let's hope that the T-72B3 will continue to be equipped with at least 2A46M-5.

Unfortunately... not all T-72B3 currently supplied to the troops have 2A-46M-5...
I won’t say in what parts. There's no point in this.

TOTAL CRAP................................................... .........
No words.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: Aleks tv

No words.

There is some good news:

"... New ammunition for the 2A82 guns of the T-14 Armata tank has successfully passed state tests and was accepted for supply. Their serial production has begun, the first batch this year was accepted by representatives of the Ministry of Defense and sent to arsenals for the formation of regulatory reserves.

By the time the main tank of the Armata family is put into service, both regulatory reserves of ammunition will be created and the current need for combat training will be provided, Viktor Murakhovsky, editor-in-chief of the Arsenal of the Fatherland magazine, said at the Power of Russia forum.

Production of 2A82 guns is in full swing at Plant No. 9 in Yekaterinburg. There is information that models of the Armata tank were recently demonstrated to President Vladimir Putin in Kubinka.

Deputy Minister of Defense General of the Army Dmitry Bulgakov said: “The factories are completing the next stage of manufacturing armored weapons and equipment on instructions from the Ministry of Defense and have already completed the production of three prototypes. All cars have now entered intermediate tests,” the newspaper “Vzglyad” reports.......
http://warfiles.ru/show-44626-boepripasy-dlya-tanka-armata-proshli-gosispytaniya
-i-prinyaty-na-snabzhenie.html

[Aleks tv]

Quote: Bad_gr

New ammunition for the 2A82 guns of the T-14 Armata tank has successfully passed state tests and was accepted for supply.

Yes, Vladimir, I read the same thing.

But what about the policy of saturating the T-72B3 troops? Will it happen with the old gun?
After all, they “enter” the troops for a LONG time... For a long time.

[svp67]

Quote: Bad_gr

The production of 2A82 cannons is in full swing at Plant No. 9 in Yekaterinburg.

Quote: Aleks tv

But what about the policy of saturating the T-72B3 troops? Will it happen with the old gun?

Here are the questions. What is this “full speed”? Two or three “pipes” per month? It’s unlikely.... After all, there is no “Armata” yet, which means there is an opportunity to send part of the production of “barrels” to the modernized T72????????? What's wrong?

[rubidium]

wonderful and very useful article. It's so difficult to find something worthwhile on the Internet among the oceans of shit...
I in no way consider myself to be any “specialists” or “analysts,” but that is precisely why it was very sad to discover that such things as the armor of this vehicle and the anti-aircraft machine gun caused fair bewilderment even in me. :(

[alavrin]

Great article! Nowadays they rarely write like that, it’s all to the point.
I was interested because: "28.03.2016/10/50 | XNUMX:XNUMX
About 200 deeply modernized T-72B3 tanks will be delivered to the Russian Ministry of Defense by the leader of the world tank building corporation Uralvagonzavod in 2016, said Oleg Sienko, General Director of UVZ.

[MaxMelan]

Every young man who approaches Stalin considers himself obliged to mention the commander’s turret. We look at the T72 T90 and things are still there.

[chingachguc]

good review... the devil is in the details as always. Otherwise, the captivating sentiments about “having no analogues” have been lifted... and I feel sorry for the tankers