Military Review

Technological Iron Curtain for Russia

29
Export Control System as a Tool for Ensuring US National Security


Recently, the attention of specialists leading the monitoring of the world arms market has been riveted to the new international export control regime - the International Trade Treaty weapons (ATT). For the treaty to enter into force, ratification by 50 countries is required. Only eight have done so far. But sooner or later, the ATT will become a factor that has a significant impact on the arms market, albeit at first and indirectly. Today, the world arms market is significantly influenced by national licensing systems for the export of military and dual-use products, and above all the US export licensing system.

The US export control system dates back to the 30 of the 20th century, when the Neutrality Act of 1935 was signed. He gave the US Secretary of State - Secretary of State - the right to license the export of military products and established a list of weapons authorized by the US for export. At that time, isolationist sentiment prevailed in US foreign policy, when the main idea of ​​introducing export controls was to avoid accusing the US government of supporting one of the parties when conflicts arose over the supply of American companies. In other words, it was important not to let smart industrialists drag America into any European or Asian war. However, after the end of the Second World War, the priorities of American foreign policy have changed dramatically - the United States has become a superpower and the world has divided into its own and others.

From isolationism to total regulation

The modern national system for regulating the export of military and dual-use products was formed during the Cold War. Most of the key legislation that formed its legal basis was passed in the second half of the 70s. In 1976, the Arms Export Control Act of 1976 (AECA) was signed, in 1977, the International Emergency Economic Powers Act was issued, in 1979, they were supplemented the law “On export regulation” (Export Administration Act). Derivatives of these laws were the International Trafficin Arms Regulations (ITAR), adopted in 1976 and regulating the export of military products from the United States, as well as the 1979 Export Administration Regulations, which regulate the export of dual-use products. Then there were lists of products in respect of which the export control procedures are implemented. Military products, the export of which is restricted by ITAR rules, are included in the United States Military List (United States Munitions List - USML). The list of dual-use products subject to the legal regulation of the Export Control Rules is the Commerce Control List (CCL).

The result of the adoption of all these regulations, rules and lists was the creation of a complex multi-level export control system in the USA in a short time. Its main objectives are to ensure the national security of the United States, to promote the implementation of the country's foreign policy, to protect fundamental human rights and freedoms, to combat terrorism, and to fulfill the United States obligations arising from participation in a number of multilateral international agreements. In fact, the export control system has become an instrument for achieving and maintaining the technological leadership of the United States, not only in the military field, but also in the field of civilian technologies. Of course, its creation was intended to limit access to advanced American technologies for the Soviet Union and its allies. The de facto export control system has spread not only to US military and dual-use goods, but also to products manufactured by US partners. It is very difficult to find in the market, both then and now, high-tech military or dual-use products of western countries that do not contain American-made components, primarily electronic ones. For any attempt to circumvent the rigid system of control created by the Americans punished.

In February 1973, after the crash of a passenger IL-62 in the vicinity of Sheremetyevo Airport, the USSR Council of Ministers adopted a resolution "On measures to improve the safety of civilian flights aviation". It was supposed to create in two stages the Unified Air Traffic Control System (EU air traffic control) of the USSR. At the first stage (1973-1978) it was necessary to organize air traffic control centers in the European part of the Union, at the second (1979-1982) - on the rest of the USSR. However, it quickly became clear that only Soviet specialists could not solve the problem in such a short time. Affected by the lack of relevant experience and the lag in the domestic element base. In addition, the approaching Moscow Olympics-80 threatened the metropolitan air hub with a huge load to receive hundreds of boards from all over the world in a short time. Under these conditions, a decision is made to attract a western supplier to create the busiest Moscow center for automated air traffic control. The choice was made in favor of the Swedish (Sweden was not a NATO member) company STANSAAB - a subsidiary of the SAAB concern for the development of software and electronic equipment. In 1975, a contract was signed for the supply to the USSR of automated air traffic control systems for the Moscow and Kiev air hubs and Mineralnye Vody airport. The most difficult task was the creation of the largest Moscow ATC center, the core of which was the Swedish automated system "Terkas", which was fully commissioned in 1981. Its construction required components manufactured in the USA that could not be legally supplied to the Soviet Union due to a system of export restrictions. The Swedes organized the underground transportation of the necessary electronic components to the USSR using Soviet diplomatic mail. The scam was revealed in 1980. The lawsuits that followed from the Americans ruined STANSAAB, and as a result, SAAB almost left the market for electronic products, and its subsidiary, STANSAAB, was sold for nothing to competitors from Ericsson. By the way, the "Terkas" system created by the Swedes using American components was still plowing, providing Moscow air hub for thirty years now. However, after the reprisal of the Swedish company, those wishing to joke with the American export control system were reduced. Actually, Terkas was the only significant experience in circumventing this system. It is characteristic that since the creation of the American export control system in the late 70s, the technological backwardness of Soviet industry, especially in the field of electronics, became insurmountable and ultimately played a role in the death of the Soviet empire.

No liberalization

Although the US export control system was formed during the Cold War, no significant weakening of it has occurred since then. The Clinton presidency attempted liberalization in that in 1992, the US Congress authorized the transfer of dual-use technologies from the USML to the Export Control List (Commercial Control List, CCL). However, the rest of the system until the last moment remained exactly the same technological iron curtain as during the Cold War.

Technological Iron Curtain for RussiaExports of facilities included in USML are licensed by the Directorate of Defense Trade Controls (DDTC) of the US Department of State. The export of products under CCL jurisdiction is licensed by the Bureau of Industry and Security (BIS). Exporting certain types of products requires licenses from both bodies. Both export lists are constantly being updated and refined as technical progress is being made - special expert groups are working on this. The process of obtaining licenses is very difficult. So that no one relaxes, it is accompanied by a strict system of supervision and prevention of violations of export regulations, which is provided by five departments or US ministries at once - the Department of Commerce, the Department of Homeland Security, the Department of Justice, the Department of State, and the Ministry of Finance. Every year on the US Department of Justice website, a list of court cases concerning companies and individuals who unsuccessfully tried to circumvent the export control system or simply put something prohibited for export by thoughtlessly is posted (for fear of intimidation). In addition to multi-million dollar penalties, losers are awarded real deadlines, and not “dvuchechkami” some and not even “Five”, but weighty “desyatochkami” and “quarters”.

A complex and rigid export licensing system has always remained a factor that has a certain negative impact on the export of high-tech products from the United States. Amid the crisis in the American economy, the Obama administration in August 2009 made the decision to begin the reform of the export control system. Her main ideas are as follows:

  • creation of a single list of goods subject to export control (instead of the current two);
  • organization of a single coordinating body (Export Enforcement Coordination Center), ensuring compliance with export restrictions;
  • the formation of a single licensing authority;
  • introduction of a consolidated screening list (Consolidated Screening List);
  • development of a simplified procedure for licensing the export of certain goods or to individual countries.

    While this reform is underway, it is already obvious that there will be no substantial liberalization of export controls, at least with regard to the supply of military products. Rather, the reform can be called the optimization of the licensing system and the elimination of duplicate functions of the ministries and their subordinate agencies. The essence will not change - the export control system will remain a tool to ensure the national security of the United States and their technological leadership in the military sphere and the sphere of dual technologies.

    How does the system work in the arms market? It is clear that the ITAR rules apply to all US arms exports and, de facto, to a significant part of the exports of US allies' weapons to NATO, as well as countries that have Majornon-NATO status ally. Among the states that have significant positions in the arms market are Israel, South Korea and Australia. The fact is that often the systems that are in service with NATO members were developed with American participation. The presence of even a few American components subject to the rules of ITAR, significantly narrows the list of countries in which this system can be supplied, limiting them only to allies, close partners of the United States or states with which America simply has good relations. The overwhelming majority of weapons systems of a high technological level developed by Western countries are somehow dependent on American-made components or technologies. You can find ITARfree small arms, artillery systems, armored vehicles, naval equipment, if we are talking about the platform itself, but when it comes to systems of a higher level of technological complexity - air defense systems, combat helicopters and airplanes, rocket and space technology, the percentage of ITAR -free systems in the global market are steadily declining.

    However, in addition to the arms market, the American export control system has a significant impact on the export of dual-use and civilian products and technologies. The most important factor here is the continued technological dominance of the United States in the market of electronic components. At the same time, all military electronics are included in the 11 section of the US military list, that is, its export is limited. In addition, export regulations require licensing of exports of all radiation and heat resistant electronic components, microwave components and other types of dual-use electronics. In fact, all exports of Military, Military Space Grade classes of electronics, as well as much of the simpler components of the Automotive and Industrial classes, are subject to licensing.

    Echoes of the Cold War

    Under the previous Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation, Serdyukov, at a certain stage, it was believed that the Russian military department could turn to the import of military products. However, our hapless importers quickly found out that the West does not intend to sell any high-tech weapons systems to Russia. Although officially Russia is not included in the number of ITAR-prohibited countries - a list of states, the export of military products to which are prohibited from the US, it is obvious that the restrictions that existed during the Cold War years were preserved. In addition, many Russian companies, including those authorized to conduct import purchases in the interests of law enforcement agencies Rosoboronexport, are on the list of export controls, that is, they do not have to expect to receive export licenses for deliveries to these companies. As a result, everything that the Russian army got used abroad - IVECO armored vehicles, MAN HX77 tractor units, Rheinmetall Defense training equipment developed at the Muline training ground, Israeli drones, a sniper weapon, Mistral, is ITAR-free, that is, not contains American-made components subject to export restrictions.

    Moreover, the existing system of export control of the United States and the systems of other Western countries significantly reduce the ability of Russian companies to import dual-use products, primarily electronic components. I will give you an example. Within the framework of the federal target program “Development of electronic component base and radio electronics at 2008 – 2015 years”, the Moscow State Institute of Electronic Technology and Ruselectronics, established in Zelenograd, a center for designing and manufacturing photomasks. Photomasks are the forms on the basis of which microchips are made. When purchasing equipment for the center being created, its management was confronted with the presence of obviously secret, but strictly implemented, international restrictions on the supply of equipment for the production of the latest generation of chips and equipment for the manufacture of appropriate photomasks to Russia. In a number of cases, they were denied the acquisition of the requested equipment in Europe and Japan (everything was clear with the United States), and equipment with lower characteristics was proposed instead. Since the equipment used in the production of photo masks is very complex, it requires supervision and maintenance from the manufacturer, purchasing through fake companies (the Chinese used this route) with subsequent import into Russia is risky and hardly expedient. As a result, the created center is able to produce photo masks for chips with design norms of 180 nanometers (the level reached by the world's leading electronics manufacturers in 1999), to a limited extent - 90 nanometers. Buy higher level equipment did not allow export restrictions. At the same time, the very fact of creating a national center of photo masks is a significant breakthrough in ensuring independence from foreign manufacturers of electronic components. Having our own relatively modern center for the production of photo masks makes it possible to provide the Russian defense and partially civilian industry with microcircuits, guaranteed to be protected from hardware bookmarks even when placing the production of microchips abroad. But it should be understood that all subsequent steps aimed at achieving technological parity with leading manufacturers of electronic components will have to be done by ourselves. Continuously improved export control systems of the United States and other Western countries simply do not leave the Russian industry another way out.
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    1. pawel
      pawel 7 November 2013 09: 47 New
      +10
      no brainer that you need to have everything your
      1. unclevad
        unclevad 7 November 2013 11: 06 New
        +3
        ... and the faster, the better. In this case, it’s dangerous to spare money.
        1. 311ove
          311ove 7 November 2013 11: 46 New
          +3
          The economy should be self-sufficient, at least! Globalization is from the evil one!
          1. aksakal
            aksakal 7 November 2013 13: 46 New
            +4
            Quote: pawel
            no brainer that you need to have everything your

            - But it’s worthwhile to understand that all the next steps aimed at achieving technological parity with leading manufacturers of electronic components will have to be done by ourselves. - laughing laughing laughing laughing Oh tin !!!!! And it only came to this conclusion those on whom it depended? That is, until recently, they hoped that "America will help us?" laughing laughing laughing
            Mlyn, guys, okay here, but even in Russia the level of managers is something so low? After all, it was necessary to understand this ten years ago and the billions that Kudrin sent to America with useless cargo, it was necessary to send it right here to photo masks and stuff, and feed the Americans breakfast.
            There is no way to buy "in the gray" (through the special operation of the FSB and special services) this equipment? Why not first recruit retired INTEL employees? People work there, retire, although they would like to work more. First, to innocent posts in Russia, but with a very good salary. Then work, a little more requiring his specific knowledge. And so on, until he is wary of the subject "and I will not give out the secrets of his corporation and his homeland?" And by that time, it was as if an American corporation, as if working in Russia, would be created, which would entice him and, as it were, where he could relax and work at full strength - corporation is his own, dear ... In short, there are many options .
            After all, such a thing - that it is precisely people, and not equipment, that decide everything - Stalin understood. He exported entire teams of German physics professors, created all the conditions for them ... And now there are billions, there are special services, what prevented this breakthrough from being made for a long time? Belief that Americans will share? The Americans do not share such things with their closest allies, but here one of the Russian managers hoped laughing
            However, it’s not too late, if you now start hunting for former Intellectuals, you can catch up with them in ten to fifteen years. That's where you better put the billions, and pensions and can wait. Even roads can wait. And God himself ordered America with its debt receipts to wait a hundred years or more.
            1. Setrac
              Setrac 7 November 2013 19: 42 New
              +3
              Quote: aksakal
              Why not first recruit retired INTEL employees?

              Well, you give a pancake! INTEL processor developer - Russian - and is now in Russia.
            2. Starover_Z
              Starover_Z 7 November 2013 19: 52 New
              0
              There is no way to buy "in the gray" (through the special operation of the FSB and special services) this equipment?

              Since the equipment used in the production of photomasks is very complex, it requires supervision and service from the manufacturer, purchasing through front companies (the Chinese used this way before) with the subsequent import to Russia is risky and hardly advisable.

              And here is the idea with
              Why not first recruit retired INTEL employees? People work there, retire, although they would like to work more.
              in my opinion you need to put BIG +!!!
            3. Papakiko
              Papakiko 7 November 2013 19: 55 New
              -1
              Quote: aksakal
              Why not first recruit retired INTEL employees? People work there, retire, although they would like to work more. First, to innocent posts in Russia, but with a very good salary. Then work, a little more requiring his specific knowledge. And so on, until he is wary of the subject "and I will not give out the secrets of his corporation and his homeland?" And by that time, it was as if an American corporation, as if working in Russia, would be created, which would entice him and, as it were, where he could relax and work already at full strength - the corporation is his own, native ...

              Aksakal sits and specifically, though not on a horse or a car.
              The mattress is a police state and punishes everyone who beats the herd. Moreover, the punishment does not comprehend 1-2 people from the inner circle but much wider. In this continental country, there is no fertile climate in North America and no incentives are visible for the “brains” to move in the opposite direction. "Brain" and everything is fine there. Many examples can you give the “elder” the implementation of the mattress engineers and scientists in the former USSR?
              That's it, that ZERO! hi
              1. aksakal
                aksakal 7 November 2013 21: 06 New
                +1
                Quote: Papakiko
                The mattress is a police state and punishes every slayer from the herd

                - Oh well. Snowden is already dead; he has already been punished. Don't you think that the FSB is, after all, a special service not at the level of the special service of even that same Iran, which it cannot protect its physicists, but the heiress of that same KGB? The chess player Fisher fought off the herd - so what? Killed? The devil accuses me of what, but the riot of fantasy itself is somehow. He retired - people - it is believed that after a couple of years he lost his qualifications and no one is following him, a pensioner. But he didn’t put his brains anywhere, his knowledge also doesn’t become so old in a couple of years.
                Quote: Papakiko
                In this continental country, there is no fertile climate in North America and no incentives are visible for the “brains” to move in the opposite direction. "Brain" and everything is fine there. Many examples can you give the “elder” the implementation of the mattress engineers and scientists in the former USSR?
                - So I will honor the fact that here it is much better to put a billion than to send to America. This, Panakiko, is your rulers (and even more so, they don’t know anything about selling oil), they’re smoking something, hoping to “catch up and overtake”, without really investing or doing anything. Or investing in notorious thieves, who are not at all difficult to recognize by their cunning Ginger face. Is not it?
                And then not a single American, but not like an American - not a single leading physicist was offered sufficient funding and normal conditions, the same facilitated purchase of laboratory (not commercial, but laboratory) equipment! - in dreams already "catch up and overtake the USA". They allocated a lard or a pair for the purchase of 90 nm photomasks of the last decade and now they will run into Russian scientists - like, "why haven’t you surpassed yet? After all, you created all the conditions, even Wow, you bought photo masks!".
                Notice, you, the Russians, have money, in any other areas you are quietly hiring expensive foreign specialists, and the same football coaches. You facts or do you remember? And what about the cold climate? So I will ask about why there are enough coaches, but not enough to buy an Intelovets specialist, and even retired? Compare the importance of “raising the level of the game of football” and the importance of catching up with the US in these critical technologies. Have you compared? And who after that smoke? Am I smoking or your rulers? The scientist is warmed by the opportunity to realize his ideas and loot, and he will not notice the weather outside his laboratory window. He wants to warm up - there is loot, in Miami it is not a problem to get warm. Something you some kind of nonsense froze.
                1. Papakiko
                  Papakiko 7 November 2013 22: 40 New
                  0
                  Quote: aksakal
                  - Oh well. Snowden is already dead; he has already been punished.

                  Oh-oo-oo-oo-clear clearly see that Aksakal not on horseback.
                  Asanzha and a dozen more "Mumriks" forgot to list.
                  It will be useful for you to read the article here: http://topwar.ru/35545-tehnologicheskiy-zheleznyy-zanaves-dlya-rossii.html
                  Well, even if after reading this, filling will not happen and you will compare the usefulness of football and other pop music with the world of high technologies, then the drift will turn into braking. hi
                  1. aksakal
                    aksakal 8 November 2013 00: 08 New
                    0
                    Quote: Papakiko
                    http://topwar.ru/35545-tehnologicheskiy-zheleznyy-zanaves-dlya-rossii.html

                    I have read about the article and I don’t understand what your objections are. It feels like you yourself have smoked something. Wake up, let's bet tomorrow.
                    My message was short - the Americans in technology were a little ahead and tried to maintain a technological advantage. So, for example, it was with nuclear weapons. Stalin solved this problem in 4 years, and then in the future the Soviets even went ahead, in thermonuclear weapons. The usual version - intelligence from Amers stole everything. Nothing of the kind. Stalin puzzled his scientists, so in order to puzzle them, you need at least their presence. The second one. He brought a bunch of German physicists. They worked in secret laboratories somewhere near Yalta. And intelligence didn’t get much, but this information was critically important. Scientific theory is like Chinese characters. There will not be one component - everything else is nonsense. There will be no theory - in front of you lay out at least the whole set of drawings of the atomic bomb - you just do not understand. Or there will be a theory - but there will be no technical nuances of how a particular problem or difficulty was circumvented. And also - no use.
                    The recipe - here it is, Stalin applied. I forgot to mention it in the first post. All three factors were resolved in a complex - the problem was solved in 4 years.
                    Now the problem is the lag in electronics - almost thirty years ago, the lag began with the appearance of Silicon Valley, AIB and so on among amers. And so far this problem has NOT been RESOLVED, although the solution algorithm - here it is, Stalin quite successfully applied it. You grow your cadres, bring in foreign cadres instead of foreign cadres in football, and improve intelligence, especially industrial. Naturally, there should be a targeted program for the development of the industry that you want to develop. Of course, sly red faces there for a cannon shot ... The most interesting thing is that there are personnel, technological equipment, albeit a decade before last, too. Intelligence with a creak, but it works. Well, it remains to find those specialists who took part in the development of INTEL and somehow invite them. Actually, what do you mind?
                    1. Papakiko
                      Papakiko 8 November 2013 11: 27 New
                      0
                      Aksakal.
                      For example, flip through the list of passengers on flight C7-1812 on October 4, 2001, the Tu-154. Whom and what he did during the life of the passengers.
                      And you just can’t imagine how many of our scientists work in their offices and you don’t know what press they got here and who pressed them.
                      Quote: aksakal
                      So, for example, it was with nuclear weapons. Stalin solved this problem in 4 years

                      Where did you get that 4 years?
                      Why do you, as a kindergarten nursery, believe that you have read from "state-official" sources and, on the contrary, will not accept what others say and argue to you here?
                      In your case, everything should be identical.
                      Spread over the tree in explanations to you about science-intensive technologies and the nuances of their transfer or development, there is no sense or desire.
                      Quote: aksakal
                      Well, it remains to find those specialists who took part in the development of INTEL and somehow invite them.

                      I wrote to you about the possible consequences for these specialists.
                      Quote: aksakal
                      Actually, what do you mind?

                      I am for all the limbs and skates of hair.
                      But 70 years of contrasting the USSR with the West, apparently you have not been taught anything and you are not making any conclusions, and this is sadness.
                      The elders from the Politburo surrendered the USSR to the West without compensation.
                      We have left-handed knees doing things.
                      Look and everything will be inapplicable. hi

                      Bondarchuk deeply swallows.
                      1. aksakal
                        aksakal 8 November 2013 12: 28 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Papakiko
                        Spread over the tree in the explanations to you about science-intensive technologies and the nuances of their transfer or development, there is no sense or desire
                        -Well, stay with your knowledge, our mysterious priest. The usual course of those who actually do not know. And yet - if the Americans somehow "press", from your words, well, as I understand it, they find points of influence on people who carry the volume of critical knowledge, this is, of course, more competent from my words, because the use of the word "press" is characteristic for the ignorant, what prevents the Russian special services from counteracting this? And also "press" those who somehow interfere with Russia? By the way, after all, the Russians are “pressing” - remember the same Dolmatov, the chief designer and that carrier of a certain amount of critical knowledge. Is his sudden death accidental? American intelligence agents as "predators" from the famous Hollywood action movie, terribly invulnerable and undetectable? What stupidity and heresy in general?
            4. Evgenij.
              Evgenij. 20 November 2013 21: 07 New
              0
              Mlyn, guys, okay here, but even in Russia the level of managers is something so low?
              Unfortunately, we have a high level of swamp liberoids.
    2. makarov
      makarov 7 November 2013 11: 07 New
      +5
      We can only hope for intelligence work, our own development, and the cultivation of young intellectual cadres.
    3. shtanko.49
      shtanko.49 7 November 2013 11: 24 New
      +5
      Liberals ate all the brains in their time, the Iron Curtain, so what did you get when he was gone, the best brains left us, but what did you get in return? A five-finger figure.
    4. Standard Oil
      Standard Oil 7 November 2013 11: 34 New
      +4
      Yes, at one time, Messrs. Reagan R. and Casey W. climbed out of their hearts to block oxygen to the USSR for purchases of new technologies, in particular oil production technologies in Europe and the USA, the problem of the USSR was the lack of attention to civilian technologies, grandfathers in the Politburo were very afraid of war and riveted, riveted, riveted tanks, more tanks, even more tanks, everything to the military industry, the hell with it, the Americans cut a chip, harmed the terrible Star Wars for the fun of the world and fear grandfathers, blocked the export of civilian technology from the West , and the USSR successfully self-collapsed without bearing a terrible imbalance between the civilian and military sectors ... Did the leadership of modern Russia draw conclusions from the lessons of the past, that is the question.
      1. Ka-52
        Ka-52 7 November 2013 15: 02 New
        +1
        This is just one of the reasons ...
      2. aksakal
        aksakal 7 November 2013 21: 33 New
        +2
        Quote: Standard Oil
        the grandfathers in the Politburo were very afraid of war and riveted, riveted, riveted tanks, more tanks, even more tanks, everything to the military industry, the rest the hell with it, the Americans cut a chip bungled for fun to the world
        - Yes, my grandfathers tried, they tried very hard, in vain you run over.
        Quote: Standard Oil
        Whether the leadership of modern Russia has drawn conclusions from the lessons of the past, that is the question.
        - I do not remember a single attempt to transfer technology from the defense industry to the civilian sphere in Soviet times. There was even a glaring case - Izhevsk citizens always fired good weapons. Good mechanics. And at the same time they let out a crippled cake-carrier, and honestly admitted that their very grandfathers "forced them to do it and let it out, because people can’t eat only tanks. Tanks cannot deliver pies, and Izhevsk people are not interested in releasing a car, for them it’s like a Komsomol assignment, they whipped something up in a hurry, arranged for release and - leave me alone, the grandfathers of the Politburo! It’s clear that such a bias could not last long, the people, for the lack of decent consumer goods, began to call the ruble wooden. And the weapon was terribly secret. DOSAAF studied as a radar operator, then served on the S-200 and was sure - well, we were taught that the Americans would attack us on the F-15 Eagles, F-16, B-52 and B-1B, I knew all of them by heart TTX! At the same time, we had to confront them on the MiG-21 and we were even dedicated to the TTX of this aircraft, and the next MiG-23 is “strictly secret, but it’s a very good plane, take my word for it!” And then the MiG flew in full swing 29 and SU-27, the Americans knew about them , and we - in general, neither sleep, nor spirit. It turns out there was nothing to be proud of in the USSR. Cars - sucks, Lada, Moskvich, Volga - that's the whole choice .. Clothing - sucks and no choice. And we did not know anything about military equipment, but I seemed to guess that the MiG-21 could not stand the battle with the Eagle - I repeat, I learned about the MiG-29 at the same time as the Zapadentsev at one of the exhibitions in Farnborough. What could be the impression of the USSR? Alas...
        Now I still see that Sukhoi is trying to do something in civil aviation. What Irkut is trying to do in civil aviation. That Milevtsy are trying to do something in the Grzhad aviation. That ChTZ, in addition to tank engines, is trying to do something in civilian life. It seems to me that those bitter lessons have been taken into account. It seems to me that if the Government even if it DOESN’T DISTURB, the Russian defense industry will also raise civilian industry.
        Russians have their own way. In the West it is already the other way around. At first, civilians will come up with something, only then the military will pick up. Today I saw a civilian inventor flying around Vesuvius flying at something tiny, low and at a frantic speed. Who can tell what it was? But the western military became interested. And if this thing gets to their commandos? Refine by range - and open the hunting season for the Russian “Poplars”? After all, the Iraqi Scuds know how they crumbled ... Why were the Russians and Shoigu not interested in this thing right today? We wait until the cockerel takes aim at the priest?
    5. lotar
      lotar 7 November 2013 11: 49 New
      0
      Interestingly, our military-industrial complex allows the purchase of the latest weapons by the countries of the US allies, or as it was customary to look through the sleeves.
      1. Starover_Z
        Starover_Z 7 November 2013 19: 57 New
        0
        They have long since departed from the technology of our element base and forgot everything! They will definitely not repeat ours!
    6. fisherman
      fisherman 7 November 2013 14: 05 New
      0
      Quote: aksakal
      After all, such a thing - that it is precisely people, and not equipment, that decide everything - Stalin understood. He exported entire teams of German physics professors, created all the conditions for them ... And now there are billions, there are special services, what prevented this breakthrough from being made for a long time?

      There is no Stalin. winked
    7. Boot under the carpet
      Boot under the carpet 7 November 2013 14: 13 New
      +2
      Yes, we will not have the production of our own electronics with our top! It is better for deputies to raise wages than to invest in new technologies.
      1. Setrac
        Setrac 7 November 2013 19: 46 New
        0
        Quote: Boot under the carpet
        Yes, we will not have the production of our own electronics with our top!

        There is Angstrom, there are other examples. What other electronics do you need?
    8. Same lech
      Same lech 7 November 2013 14: 19 New
      +3
      But SKOLKOVO and RUSNANO for what was created, they work hard at the thought of coming up with more and more new schemes for withdrawing budget money.
      Hard workers work tirelessly, so that they could use up their energy for the benefit of our homeland - but all this, alas, DREAM DREAMS.
      1. Evgenij.
        Evgenij. 21 November 2013 07: 35 New
        0
        A SKOLKOVO and RUSNANO
        These guys are investing in long-term programs, and crooks will put everyone in prison in a year.
        On the other hand, SB RAS (Akademgorodok in Novosibirsk) gives so many discoveries and inventions to the mountain, and there is Koltsovo (medicine) nearby (Vector) Vector (viruses, etc.)
        SKOLKOVO and RUSNANO - a screen, so that liberoids don't have a lot of brains, so they don’t go where you don’t need to
    9. Boot under the carpet
      Boot under the carpet 7 November 2013 15: 11 New
      +2
      Another factor in the absence of the birth of new high-tech industries in Russia is rent and taxes, just hellish figures, and everything has been created in China to build production there.
    10. Ka-52
      Ka-52 7 November 2013 15: 20 New
      +2
      This bothers me:
      In a number of cases, they were refused the purchase of the requested equipment in Europe and Japan (everything was clear from the USA), and equipment with reduced characteristics was offered in return. Since the equipment used in the manufacture of photomasks is very complex, it requires supervision and service from the manufacturer, purchasing through shell companies (the Chinese used to use this path) with the subsequent import into Russia is risky and unlikely appropriate

      Why does the whole world allow itself to steal technological secrets, and we cannot?
      What the citizens of "RosOboronts" eggs bench press ?! Only from your "Native" feeder can you steal, but with a stranger they can even smack in the face? That is, We can steal from Him, we can, but from Amer, for example, oh how embarrassing ?? belay What kind of us will think ?! In China, the doctrine stands at the state level by any means get technology! And they do not spare money on this. Yes, technological independence is indispensable, but if there is no time or money for it ...
      1. aksakal
        aksakal 8 November 2013 00: 33 New
        0
        Quote: Ka-52
        What kind of us will think ?! In China, at the state level, there is a doctrine to get technology by any means! And they do not spare money on this.
        - But that's not the point. Have you ever bought equipment without your own trained personnel? I was stupid to buy a brick factory, and I regretted the money for training at least myself, my beloved. And hit hard. Credit payments have to be paid for the plant, but I can’t set it up, I can’t fix it. That clay, already molded in the form of bricks, crack after drying, why use them to send for firing, then something else. In short, I remember how a terrible dream, still sweat breaks through. Well, people bought this plant from me, jumped out of business as scalded. As I understand it by the subject - "Since the equipment used in the manufacture of photomasks is very complex, it requires supervision and service from the manufacturer, purchasing through front companies (the Chinese used this way before) with the subsequent import to Russia is risky and hardly advisable“- they are stupidly afraid of losing money stupidly, this is not a penny brick factory. During the years of perestroika, under Gorbachev, they began to“ accelerate ”, without trained personnel, bought equipment, half stupidly rotted in the factory territories.
        Every day I go to work and drive past the healthy Knauf factory, purchased in 1989, for the production of dry building mixes. They say that there was a tricked out, all computerized, shift - about 20 people, and hundreds of tons per day could be produced. And there was only one healthy skeleton, essentially hefty tanks for batches. And Kazakhstan went the standard way of development - at first they bought Vetonit in Finland, Atlas from the Poles, then using primitive equipment made on their knees, one of the companies, with the help of a chemical scientist, adjusted its brand production, then they made the equipment a little better . Then they prepared their personnel, but the exact same plant from Knauf was no longer able to buy. Truly - there are teeth, but no meat, then meat has appeared - the teeth have disappeared ... laughing
        That's what this is about. You can steal technology when you are ready to "eat" it. If you are not ready to "eat" - then there can be no question of theft. And you can be ready when you have the personnel and a prepared consumer base. About this, my post above, but here you can see on the example of a dry mixture. There Panakiko decided to protest something, but I still don’t understand what he objects to.
      2. Evgenij.
        Evgenij. 21 November 2013 07: 38 New
        +1
        Why does the whole world allow itself to steal technological secrets, and we cannot?
        What citizens of "RosOborontsy" bench press eggs?

        When about intelligence they say that she got a secret, it's a failure.
        I hope the work of our intelligence is known in 50 years or more, when the vultures are removed from the documents
    11. chief.matros
      chief.matros 7 November 2013 16: 10 New
      +2
      At the Taganrog Research Institute at Tag.gos. Radio Engineering University had its own best practices on this topic, ruined in the 90s, now, after the best minds of our science have scattered, we are trying to collect the fragments.
      1. Evgenij.
        Evgenij. 21 November 2013 07: 40 New
        0
        At the Taganrog Research Institute at Tag.gos. Radio Engineering University had its own developments on this topic, ruined in the 90s,
        And where do you think (in the west) these developments come from?
    12. Neighbor
      Neighbor 7 November 2013 16: 41 New
      0
      And, in any case, our developments are not over the hill.
    13. Dimy4
      Dimy4 7 November 2013 18: 33 New
      +3
      Special thanks to the bald maize - "Cybernetics - the corrupt girl of imperialism"
    14. july
      july 7 November 2013 21: 01 New
      +2
      It’s sad all this, our “Kulibins” could have turned the country into paradise long ago, but the stupidity of our managers from the authorities has become worse than the enemy of the threat.
    15. saag
      saag 8 November 2013 07: 28 New
      0
      Quote: aksakal
      Today I saw a civilian inventor flying around Vesuvius flying at something tiny, low and at a frantic speed. Who can tell what it was? But the western military became interested. And if this thing gets to their commandos? Refine by range - and open the hunting season for the Russian “Poplars”? After all, the Iraqi Scuds know how they crumbled ... Why were the Russians and Shoigu not interested in this thing right today? We wait until the cockerel takes aim at the priest?

      Hummingbird on the PJAP or what? So this is a famous thing from the time of the union, based on the engine from the FAU-1, I’m also new
    16. And Us Rat
      And Us Rat 9 November 2013 07: 10 New
      0
      Quote: Neighbor
      And, in any case, our developments are not over the hill.


      And they are not needed beyond the hill, all the trouble is in the lecithic pride of those in power. Instead of honestly confessing to our own citizens - “yes, they’re behind, let's roll up our hands and work hard to catch up and learn how to do no worse” - they are pushing people on cheap PR about “having no analogues”. It is understood that there are no analogues, the West has long written off all analogues as obsolete. Just a joke about the elusive Joe. You see, the great-power pride does not allow them to admit that they are behind, and in attempts to hide it they are even more behind. The second misfortune is that progress is accelerating - and for every missed year, you will have to catch up with five extra years.
    17. samoletil18
      samoletil18 11 December 2013 18: 49 New
      0
      You have to do your own, and start the day before yesterday. As soon as we begin to do, in the USA they will come to the conclusion: Russia is not dangerous - it can be sold. And here some Chubais-like monkey will buy from them, and not from us. And how its electronic industry will be bent from the lack of orders, then the US Congress will decide again: oh Russia is so dangerous and aggressive.