Military Review

New competition "Name of victory" will do without the old "rake"?

300
Media holding VGTRK and RVIO (Russian militaryhistorical society) launched the project “Name of Victory”. In this project, it is proposed to vote for one or another military leader out of a hundred personalities represented. Every visitor resource, at which the vote is held, can indicate the ten of the military leaders who, in his opinion, personify the image of victory. The contest organizers report that before submitting a hundred personalities applying for the name “Victory Name”, experts in the field of military history, as well as ordinary history buffs, put forward their proposals for several months. Based on these proposals, the final hundred was formed, which included historical figures and our contemporaries: from the governor and prototypes of epic heroes to officers of the imperial army, red marshals and generals of today. The voting results will be announced on May 9 2014 of the year.


New competition "Name of victory" will do without the old "rake"?


The Minister of Culture speaks about the new competition in the following vein:
We have no division into ours and not ours, into red or white. Together and Kolchak, and Frunze, and Kappel, and Denikin. The main criterion is that they all loved Russia, everyone wished her well, just everyone saw it differently.


From these words of Vladimir Medinsky it can be concluded that the competition is also held with the active support of the Ministry of Culture of the Russian Federation.

Let us now try to speak frankly about what the competition is about, and whether it has its weak points.
The competition is certainly important. It can be called an event. If we take into account that the level of historical (and not only historical) education in our time has fallen so noticeably because modern schoolchildren often build their ideas about national history on the basis of two dozen textbooks that often contradict each other (before adopting a single complex of school history textbooks), plus based on pseudo-documentary films shot with the financial support of very strange funds, it turns out that the competition looks more than timely. It’s not that this contest served as the ultimate truth and finally shed light for every representative of modern youth on all military history pages without exception, but at least he is able to draw attention to the course of Russian history. A contest is capable of attracting attention, by the way, not only of the younger generation, because according to its results there will be documentaries and a series of ten commanders who will win the contest. And the films will be interesting both to specialists and ordinary average viewers.

Weak sides? Well, without them, as we know, does not happen. One of the weaknesses of the new project is the opportunity for the organizers to step on the old rake. We all remember very well what the recently concluded Russia-10 contest resulted in, where you had to vote for the sights of Russia that Russians (and not only Russians) consider the most. During the competition, a large-scale scandal broke out connected with the revealed facts of almost forced voting in certain regions of the country. At one of the stages of the competition, it became clear that the voters were giving the title of the main attraction of Russia to the Grozny Heart of Chechnya mosque in Grozny. Millions of Russians, to put it mildly, could not appreciate the fact that an architectural structure with a religious orientation, built just a few years ago, can be called the main symbol of thousands of years of Russia. In the end, everything led to the fact that they began to vote no longer “for”, but “against”. To reduce the heat, the organizers offered the result of “Russia-10” in this version (without specifying the votes collected): Kolomna Kremlin, “Heart of Chechnya”, Nizhny Novgorod Kremlin, Trinity-Sergius Lavra, Mamayev Kurgan and the sculpture “Motherland Calls!”, Pskov Kremlin, Lake Baikal, Kizhi, Rostov Kremlin and Peterhof.
Again, this solution did not suit everyone, but the fire fighting competition was completed so as not to aggravate the situation.

After all, there was another contest “Name of Russia. The historical choice of 2008 ”, in which they chose the most respected political figure of the people. In that competition, too, was not without scandal. At, let's say, the intermediate stage, Stalin “broke loose” with a considerable margin. Apparently, calling Joseph Stalin as the main “Name of Russia” for the organizers was politically incorrect, and some confusion began again with the voices of “jurors”, TV viewers and Internet users. Everything ended with the victory of such a historical figure as Alexander Nevsky, and Stalin was “politically correct” moved to the third position, giving Stolypin second place.

Interestingly, in the contest “Name of Russia. The historical choice of 2008 ”and in the new competition“ Name of Victory ”there are repetitions. In principle, it is understandable, because often prominent military leaders and political (near-political) leaders were, as they say, in some people: Alexander Nevsky (and in “Name of Russia”, and in “Name of Victory”), Alexander Suvorov (and in “ The name Russia, ”and in“ The Name of Victory ”), and others. True, it immediately catches the eye that the organizers decided in advance“ not to allow elections ”to some, let's say, uncomfortable candidates. The same Joseph Stalin, for example. Is it possible to call him a warlord? Of course. But he is not on the list of 100 personalities. Obvious reinsurance by the organizers of the competition ...

Yes, and military leaders, heads of state (principalities) among the Rurik somewhat more (and to put it mildly) than the military leaders, the monarchs from among the Romanovs. Ivan the Terrible is on the list, Vladimir Monomakh is, Ivan III is, and, for example, Peter I is not. Of course, you can start a long debate on the fact that Ivan the Terrible is more a military leader than Peter the Great, but such a discussion will not lead to anything anyway and the logic of the organizers of the competition will not reveal to us.

But in general, the list is, of course, wide. Here there are such historical personalities that do not need a special presentation (the same Alexander Nevsky or Georgy Zhukov), but there are also such essays about whom in the representative part of the competition should be made more extensive (for example, Mikhail Loris-Melikov or Mstislav Tmutarakansky).

In general, the competition is just beginning. His focus on increasing interest in national history among Russian citizens is welcome, and I want to believe that this (the third) pancake will never come off the organizers. The top five (on 5 November 2013 of the year) is this:

Alexander Suvorov (8,15%), Georgy Zhukov (6,32%), Mikhail Kutuzov (6,25%), Alexander Nevsky 5,38%, Konstantin Rokossovsky (5,24%). The last places (99-100) are shared with 0,02% by Alexander Buturlin and Simon Mikulinsky.
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  1. INTER
    INTER 6 November 2013 08: 47
    25
    We have a lot of heroes and it’s hard to say for sure about anyone. I think Stalin will be on top!
    1. Dazdranagon
      Dazdranagon 6 November 2013 09: 12
      39
      The fact of the matter is that Stalin is not on the lists! He is "politically incorrect". hi
      1. domokl
        domokl 6 November 2013 10: 02
        +5
        Quote: Dazdranagon
        The fact of the matter is that Stalin is not on the lists! He is "politically incorrect".

        And why is Stalin? Zhukov will win. Simply because the deeds of others are less well-known and not so promoted by the press and the media in general. And the education of the majority leaves much to be desired
        1. Revolver
          Revolver 6 November 2013 10: 34
          -15 qualifying.
          Quote: domokl
          Why Stalin?
          And then that he was the Supreme Commander.
          Quote: domokl
          Beat Zhukov
          And it will be a shame for the whole of Russia, no, worse - for the whole world. Zhukov was a butcher who sacrificed tens of thousands of Russian lives for his immeasurable ambitions. "Women will give birth to more" - this is his attitude to the soldiers.
          And Generalissimo A.V. Suvorov in his "Science of Victory" he wrote: "A soldier is dear ... Who does not protect people, an arrest officer, a non-commissioned officer and a corporal, sticks, and even sticks themselves, who does not protect themselves."
          And under which of the two of them would you, dear reader of this post, prefer to serve?
          1. ed65b
            ed65b 6 November 2013 11: 03
            +2
            Quote: Nagan
            Quote: domokl
            Why Stalin?
            And then that he was the Supreme Commander.
            Quote: domokl
            Beat Zhukov
            And it will be a shame for the whole of Russia, no, worse - for the whole world. Zhukov was a butcher who sacrificed tens of thousands of Russian lives for his immeasurable ambitions. "Women will give birth to more" - this is his attitude to the soldiers.
            And Generalissimo A.V. Suvorov in his "Science of Victory" he wrote: "A soldier is dear ... Who does not protect people, an arrest officer, a non-commissioned officer and a corporal, sticks, and even sticks themselves, who does not protect themselves."
            And under which of the two of them would you, dear reader of this post, prefer to serve?

            Nagan you are wrong minus. I do not intend to enter into polemics. hi
            1. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 6 November 2013 14: 37
              +7
              Quote: ed65b
              Nagan you are wrong minus. I do not intend to enter into polemics. hi

              With all due respect, Zhukov really had such statements, but most likely isolated ones. ami de Platon, mais plus encore de la vérité
              PS I'm for Suvorov.
              1. Vadivak
                Vadivak 6 November 2013 19: 12
                +9
                Quote: Ingvar 72
                PS I'm for Suvorov.


                So do I. To pick up the Zeelov heights when Berlin had already successfully bypassed the Troops of the 1st Ukrainian Front (Konev) in the Zhukovsky Berlin operation in 23 days, from April 16 to May 8, 361367 soldiers and officers were killed. There is also such an indicator - average daily losses. Near Moscow - 10910 people, near Stalingrad - 6392 people, on the Kursk Bulge - 11313 people, in Belarus - 11262 people. In the Berlin operation - 15712 people.
                1. Rakti-kali
                  Rakti-kali 6 November 2013 20: 57
                  +8
                  Quote: Vadivak
                  Take the Zeelov heights in the forehead when Berlin has already successfully bypassed the Troops of the 1st Ukrainian Front (Konev)

                  Interestingly, is this a blatant lie or a sincere error? The troops of the Konev front did not bypass Berlin, and on the 3-4th day of the operation they nearly ruined this very operation. And to storm the Zeelov Heights with an average daily loss of 15.000 (this incidentally is the loss in all sections of the Berlin operation, which included the Stettinsky-Rostock, Zelovsko-Berlin, Cottbus-Potsdam, Shtremberg-Torgauskaya and Brandenburg-Rathenov front-line offensive operations.) It was necessary that to cut off the IX army of Theodor Busse from Berlin and not lose 30.000 a day in battles with her on the streets of Berlin.
                2. Current 72
                  Current 72 7 November 2013 01: 59
                  +1
                  Ingvar72.And you know such a truth that the advancing troops suffer significantly greater losses in manpower than the defending side.
                  1. Basarev
                    Basarev 10 November 2013 10: 22
                    0
                    Therefore, probably, the Poles were defeated in a month and did not notice
              2. Basarev
                Basarev 10 November 2013 10: 20
                -1
                But this is largely due to the assault on the Zeelov Heights. Then really - they wet our boys, but did not have time to wet too much - ours put the Germans even more.
            2. washi
              washi 6 November 2013 15: 24
              0
              Quote: ed65b
              Quote: Nagan
              Quote: domokl
              Why Stalin?
              And then that he was the Supreme Commander.
              Quote: domokl
              Beat Zhukov
              And it will be a shame for the whole of Russia, no, worse - for the whole world. Zhukov was a butcher who sacrificed tens of thousands of Russian lives for his immeasurable ambitions. "Women will give birth to more" - this is his attitude to the soldiers.
              And Generalissimo A.V. Suvorov in his "Science of Victory" he wrote: "A soldier is dear ... Who does not protect people, an arrest officer, a non-commissioned officer and a corporal, sticks, and even sticks themselves, who does not protect themselves."
              And under which of the two of them would you, dear reader of this post, prefer to serve?

              Nagan you are wrong minus. I do not intend to enter into polemics. hi

              The Minister of Culture speaks about the new competition in the following vein:
              We do not have a division between ours and ours, red or white. Together, and Kolchak, and Frunze, and Kappel, and Denikin. The main criterion is that they all loved Russia, they all wished it well, everyone just saw it differently.

              And I’m ready to enter into a polemic.
              Who has done more for Russia and the savings of its people?
              Zhukov (Chief of Staff of the Red Army, responsible for reconnaissance, location and use of units (he also insisted on submission to the special and political departments of the Red Army)) who killed millions of Russians in the initial period of the war and did not directly participate in further planning of military operations even at the front-line level (To ditch a bunch people in Yelnya and Vyazma is not a war - this is a murder).
              Or Rokossovsky, Chernyshevsky, Gorbatov, Petrovsky, Vlasov (until he was betrayed by Zhukov and company): (they guarded the soldiers, defended their opinions, but nevertheless carried out classical military operations)
              1. tomket
                tomket 6 November 2013 22: 12
                +4
                I wonder how you relate to the example of MacArthur, who, with a numerical superiority, surrendered the Philippines, along with the same troops, or to Fletcher and Spryuens, who sent the Dontles and Devastroers without an intrusive cover for slaughter. Why don't you call them butchers? Well, or the handsome Monti, in whom each victory cost more than defeat, probably the record among the allies in the number of ditched tank formations. Well, or take the operational genius of Mnstein, who betrayed the idea of ​​storming the Kursk ledge in the forehead. There is a myth according to which we did not care about the soldiers. I can say that the Western generals absolutely did not care about their soldiers, they just had the scale of the battles was much more modest than on the eastern front, and therefore look like some kind of caring fathers commanders.
              2. Basarev
                Basarev 10 November 2013 10: 24
                -1
                So it was not Vlasov who turned out to be a beast and a traitor - he was betrayed by the Soviet marshals! But I naively believed that Vlasov simply sold for nothing to the Germans ...
            3. tungus
              tungus 7 November 2013 05: 36
              +2
              Quote: ed65b
              Nagan you are wrong minus. I do not intend to enter into polemics

              And what is he wrong about? Stalin was the supreme commander, and not entering his name on the voting lists is a cowardice of power. They are afraid of the opinions of the people. They understand that Stalin will win, but this goes against the policy of denigrating the Soviet system and Stalin, as the creator of a powerful alternative state to the West. So they did not add it to the lists. And they will not bring it anywhere and not when. In any case, while the generation that remembers the USSR is alive.
              As for Zhukov, his attitude towards ordinary soldiers as cannon fodder is well known. However, this was not his sin alone. He was not a bad strategist, but like a man ... And then, Zhukov does not impress me with the fact that in fact it was he who secured power to Khrushchev. And the course of Stalinist development of the country was interrupted, and the decay of the political elite began, which ultimately led to the collapse of the country.
              1. Basarev
                Basarev 10 November 2013 10: 27
                0
                Do not slander. The decay did not begin with the death of Stalin. Yes, Khrushchev was a very, very absurd secretary general, but Brezhnev is one of the best rulers of the twentieth century. Those who remember Brezhnev’s rule are still alive, and they will confirm my words.
          2. domokl
            domokl 6 November 2013 11: 33
            12
            Quote: Nagan
            And it will be a shame for the whole of Russia, no, worse - for the whole world. Zhukov was a butcher, who laid tens of thousands of Russian lives for his excessive ambitions.

            And you would have swept to Russia on 9 in May and said these words to those old war veterans who still remained, thank God. They will be in the Alexander Garden in 9 on May. I think that these war veterans will explain to you who and what even without too much controversy. They have no tolerance, but they have the strength of mind. So I won’t argue. I consider the issue closed.
            1. Revolver
              Revolver 6 November 2013 23: 21
              -1
              Quote: domokl
              And you would ride to Russia on May 9 and say these words to those old war veterans
              There is no need to ride - there are also old soldiers who are still alive here, even one of my rather close relatives who went through the war from Stalingrad to Vienna. So his opinion about Zhukov is also not very high.

              And you would ask about Zhukov the participants in the exercises at the Totsky training ground, when Zhukov without any reason drove hundreds of young guys who were yet to become fathers into the unsettled dust of a nuclear mushroom.
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 6 November 2013 23: 35
                +3
                And did he know about the possible consequences if he rode to the epicenter?
                By the way, did the American leaders of their ten "atomic exercises" do the same? Or did they know?
                1. Revolver
                  Revolver 7 November 2013 00: 22
                  0
                  Quote: Spade
                  And did he know about the possible consequences if he rode to the epicenter?
                  By the way, did the American leaders of their ten "atomic exercises" do the same? Or did they know?
                  And I also do not justify these, also the case. But there is a difference.
                  In America, the irradiated sued Uncle Sam and received such monetary compensation that it was enough in comfort to spend the rest (often considerable) of life, in death to die, and the heirs did not complain about the size of the inheritance.
                  And in the USSR everyone gave a subscription, and then they did not even have the right to tell doctors that they were irradiated. And doctors, even if they knew, had no right to make diagnoses even remotely hinting at radiation. And so they lived in torment, and died in torment.
                  1. Rakti-kali
                    Rakti-kali 7 November 2013 11: 29
                    0
                    Quote: Nagan
                    And in the USSR everyone gave a subscription, and then they did not even have the right to tell doctors that they were irradiated. And doctors, even if they knew, had no right to make diagnoses even remotely hinting at radiation. And so they lived in torment, and died in torment.

                    Give up! Do not carry this nonsense - it is heavy, tear yourself up yet.
                  2. Basarev
                    Basarev 10 November 2013 10: 30
                    0
                    Perhaps that is why MacArthur really wanted to drop an atomic bomb on Manchuria
          3. Bigriver
            Bigriver 6 November 2013 13: 16
            +8
            Quote: Nagan
            ... Zhukov was a butcher who sacrificed tens of thousands of Russian lives for his immeasurable ambitions. "Women will give birth to more" - this is his attitude to the soldiers.

            You are mistaken in relying on the brain juice of the democratic press and journalism. There is enough documentary evidence to refute the loud thesis "Zhukov is a butcher!" You can also go from the other side - compare, for example, the loss of his front with other fronts. Although, of course, George Konstantinovich was not a saint. A man of his time - tough to the point of cruelty, strong-willed and decisive, in military affairs he had an unconditional talent.
            About "giving birth to women". This phrase wanders in literature.., about 200 years. The first time she was attributed to Field Marshal Apraksin. Last time - Mikhail Weller in his story attributed to Zhukov.
          4. dmb
            dmb 6 November 2013 13: 20
            10
            Dear short-barreled, can you be curious about the primary source in which you and your colleagues dug up this phrase of Zhukov? I ask you not to suggest references to "prominent historians" of Putin, Medvedev and Svanidze.
            1. Ascetic
              Ascetic 6 November 2013 15: 16
              12
              Quote: dmb
              Dear Korotkostvol, can one be curious about the source in which you and your associates unearthed this phrase of Zhukov?


              This phrase was replicated by everyone known from the book "Penal Battalion" (the film of the same name with Serebryakov in the title role) Eduard Yakovlevich Volodarsky
              -
              In one of your interviews you called Zhukov a "butcher" ...
              This is not what I called him. So he was called soldiers - at the front Zhukov had a nickname: the Butcher.

              For some reason, everyone forgets about Zhukov's attitude to the soldiers. General Eisenhower writes in his memoirs how he saw a huge field near Potsdam, strewn with the corpses of Russian soldiers. Following Zhukov's order, they stormed the city head-on - under German dagger fire. The sight of this field amazed Eisenhower. He felt uneasy, and he asked Zhukov (not literally, but I can vouch for the meaning): "What the hell has this Potsdam surrendered to? Why did you put so many people for it?"

              In response, Zhukov smiled and said (these words reproduced by Eisenhower, I remembered for sure): "Never mind, Russian women are still giving birth."

              link
              These are estorians and pesateli. but ask a question for which Zhukov at the age of 19 received two St. George’s crosses, which will put him into a stupor.
              1. dmb
                dmb 6 November 2013 16: 22
                +4
                Dear Ascetic. Thank you for a more detailed assessment of the level of knowledge of some commentators. Moreover, I add that the little reverend Eduard Yakovlevich stole this phrase from V. Pikul, who attributed it to Minikh. And if Pikul did not hide that he writes works of art, then the smart guy Yakovlevich snagged solely in the spirit of today's requests.
          5. pensioner
            pensioner 6 November 2013 14: 00
            +3
            Quote: Nagan
            Zhukov was a butcher who sacrificed tens of thousands of Russian lives for his immeasurable ambitions. "Women will give birth to more" - this is his attitude to the soldiers.
            In A. Isaev's book "Zhukov" statistics, generally speaking, refute this common statement. Revolver! Read if you haven't read it yet. Great book!
          6. Ascetic
            Ascetic 6 November 2013 14: 53
            +8
            Quote: Nagan
            Zhukov was a butcher who sacrificed tens of thousands of Russian lives for his immeasurable ambitions. "Women will give birth to more" - this is his attitude to the soldiers.


            March 7, 1942, Zhukov throws Zakharkin in his hearts
            "In vain do you think that success is achieved by human flesh, success is achieved by the art of warfare, fighting with skill, not with the lives of people."

            It was Zhukov who began to use the tactics of assault squads and groups, which particularly proved itself during the battles for Stalingrad. It is still used in the rapid reaction forces (airborne infantry and infantry infantry fighting regiment) and special forces and in army intelligence (reconnaissance in battle). So today all our commanders are also butchers? And Suvorov the butcher, who used something similar when storming the fortress of Izmail

            On March 22, 1942, in an order to the commanders of the 43rd, 49th, 50th and 5th armies, Zhukov wrote in conclusion
            "... the exact execution of my order to seize enemy strongholds by special assault detachments, in order to avoid unnecessary losses."

            March 15, 1942 Zhukov even issued a special order on the attitude to personnel, beginning with the words
            "In the armies of the Western Front, a completely unacceptable attitude towards saving personnel. Commanders, commanders of formations and units, organizing a battle, sending people to perform combat missions, not taking a responsible approach to the preservation of fighters and commanders, the Headquarters has recently given the Western Front replenishment more than other fronts 2-3 times, but this replenishment with negligence, and sometimes the criminal attitude of unit commanders towards saving people's lives and health is unacceptably quickly lost and the units again remain in a small shortage. "


            There was an article on VO Zhukov did not protect the soldiers? How much can you replicate this moss-grown Khrushchev nonsense, picked up by the newly homegrown democrats, ambitious
            1. washi
              washi 6 November 2013 15: 31
              -5
              Where did you get this from?
              Zhukov was not at Stalingrad.
              At this time, he was trying to eliminate the Rzhevsky ledge in the frontal.
              Do not believe his memoirs.
              1. Ascetic
                Ascetic 6 November 2013 16: 25
                +4
                Quote: Vasya
                Where did you get this from?
                Zhukov was not at Stalingrad.
                At this time, he was trying to eliminate the Rzhevsky ledge in the frontal.
                Do not believe his memoirs.



                Quote: Vasya
                the tactics of assault squads and groups, which particularly proved itself during the battles for Stalingrad

                Zhukov’s tactics were used during the defense of Stalingrad, TACTICS, understand? Zhukov demanded that any offensive was prepared, especially the seizure of strong points, after a thorough reconnaissance of fire weapons and forces, their most vulnerable places, and the hidden concentration of assault groups at a "throw" distance. Relatively speaking, passes and approaches were secretly made in advance, the closer the better, special assault groups were concentrated at the turn of the throw. Then a diversionary fire maneuver and an assault, usually in the joint or flank of the firing strongpoints. The success of the operation depended on how skillfully and competently the commanders prepared it. This is what Zhukov demanded. And not by storm with a bang! whole divisions. How they like to show it now in the movies. And a soldier is a soldier, they raised him to attack machine guns, put a lot of people and then the negligent commanders justify their stupidity. It was Zhukov the butcher who ordered it, we had nothing to do with it. We only carried out the order, Who will take the blame. They will be killed in the next battle or sent to the forest, and Zhukov is far and high.
                1. Aaron Zawi
                  Aaron Zawi 6 November 2013 21: 47
                  +4
                  By the way, yes. I recently came across an order from Zhukov during the period of his command of the Western Front, so there is a direct text banning frontal attacks, demanding maneuver and searching for weak nodes in the defense of the Germans. No direct reference has survived, but there is a direct requirement to save personnel. And in general, rigidity and exactingness, it is easy to confuse with cruelty on a soft sofa. The front-line soldiers described Zhukov as tough, and sometimes mercilessly demanding, but they never spoke of his "senseless cruelty." In general, 41 years old is in many ways the pinnacle of Zhukovsky's individual talent. And Yelninsky. Bulge and Leningrad and Moscow were the success of the Red Army largely due to Zhukov's personality.
                2. Basarev
                  Basarev 10 November 2013 10: 37
                  0
                  Zhukov was not a staff general. Zhukov, too, was lying in the trench and knew the soldier's life from the inside.
              2. The comment was deleted.
              3. pensioner
                pensioner 6 November 2013 18: 20
                +2
                Quote: Vasya
                Zhukov was not at Stalingrad.

                Vasya! You do not know a little. It was Zhukov who proposed to Stalin the idea of ​​a counterattack near Stalingrad (together with Vasilevsky, but he was the initiator). And back in September !! And it was Zhukov who suggested: HOW the front line will look in November !!! That HOW could a simple person foresee all this ?? That's right: no way!
            2. pensioner
              pensioner 6 November 2013 17: 48
              +1
              Quote: Ascetic
              It was Zhukov who began to use the tactics of assault detachments and groups, which proved itself especially during the battles for Stalingrad. It is still used in the rapid reaction forces (DSB Airborne and marine corps) and special forces and in army intelligence (reconnaissance in battle)

              Ascetic! hi Namely !! Moreover, in percentage terms, the losses of troops led by Zhukov were the smallest among all the troops with their military leaders. And the fact that in the ABSOLUTE expression of the loss of Zhukov’s troops is the largest is easily explainable: no one had such a number of troops and, accordingly, PEOPLE, like Zhukov’s. Again in the ABSOLUTE expression.
              1. Papakiko
                Papakiko 6 November 2013 21: 49
                +1
                Quote: retired
                as a percentage of the loss of troops led by Zhukov

                Where does this data come from? Who will tell you the uterus or reveal it?
                Quote: retired
                It was Zhukov who proposed to Stalin the idea of ​​a counterattack near Stalingrad (together with Vasilevsky, but he was the initiator). And back in September !! And it was Zhukov who suggested: HOW the front line will look in November !!! That HOW could a simple person foresee all this ?? That's right: no way!

                You obviously watched this movie !?
                There are as many as 7 films and this is a fresh documentary.
                1. pensioner
                  pensioner 6 November 2013 22: 09
                  +1
                  Quote: Papakiko
                  Where does this data come from? Who will tell you the uterus or reveal it?

                  Again, I will refer to Isaev- "Zhukov". Isaev tried his best on this topic. And right now, I'll try to look into Vasilevsky's book. There, this episode seems to be described in detail ...
          7. dark_65
            dark_65 6 November 2013 17: 31
            0
            like an adult .. and such nonsense
          8. vanya
            vanya 6 November 2013 22: 22
            +1
            I support and once again remind that Zhukov was the chief of the general staff at the beginning of the war, and pay attention to how much time the order was given to bring the fleet and the army to full alert
            1. Basarev
              Basarev 10 November 2013 10: 41
              0
              And also about the fleet - the young man Kuznetsov, he so ship and admiral that no naval base was taken from the sea. And dense barrage fire on the Luftwaffe aircraft succeeded - the aircraft could not break through to the north, only the ground troops could get closer .
          9. vjhbc
            vjhbc 6 November 2013 23: 27
            +2
            that is, you think that instead of guiding the front, the beetles commanded the companies of battalions and regiments themselves and sent soldiers directly to the front lines to attack strong points in the forehead, that is, where the officers commanded the beetles there weren’t all the beetles
            Quote: Nagan
            And it will be a shame for the whole of Russia, no, worse - for the whole world. Zhukov was a butcher who sacrificed tens of thousands of Russian lives for his immeasurable ambitions. "Women will give birth to more" - this is his attitude to the soldiers.
          10. AleksUkr
            AleksUkr 9 November 2013 17: 30
            0
            Quote: Nagan
            And it will be a shame for the whole of Russia, no, worse - for the whole world.


            And all that you know, and everywhere you have been ...
            It is the people of Russia, first of all, to decide whom they consider to be the most worthy commander of the country. And they do not need advisers. You are too straightforward. We have something and whom to be proud of. Without advisers, well-wishers.
        2. baltika-18
          baltika-18 6 November 2013 11: 38
          +8
          Quote: domokl
          Why Stalin? Zhukov will defeat.

          Here I’m not agreeing with you, Alexander. The VGTRK media holding holds a vote, so Zhukov will be given an honorable second or third place. But the winner will be either Suvorov or Kutuzov, or maybe someone from the generals from the time of the Romanovs or the bad end of the Rurikovich, but not the times of the existence of the USSR. For this, you just need to know the direction of the policy of this holding and the VGTRK channel.
          1. Mature naturalist
            Mature naturalist 6 November 2013 21: 52
            +3
            Quote: baltika-18
            Well, the winner will be ...

            MTS, Beeline and Megaphone
          2. Papakiko
            Papakiko 6 November 2013 21: 52
            0
            Quote: baltika-18
            any of the commanders during the reign of the Romanovs or, at worst, the Rurikovich

            of course pr. Pozharsky and Mr. Minin are more than a hell of a gnar, but there will still be an opportunity in the form of Ermak or Shamil to be dragged into the top five, to maintain the nishtyaks SMSsnyh.
      2. DEfindER
        DEfindER 6 November 2013 10: 37
        12
        Quote: Dazdranagon
        The fact of the matter is that Stalin is not on the lists!

        This is the most surprising thing! The competition is called "Name of Victory", which could be simpler:
        1. What was the greatest war in human history?
        2. Who led the country and the army that won in this war?
        Here is the name of the Victory.
      3. killganoff
        killganoff 6 November 2013 10: 45
        17
        More precisely, he is objectionable to the current leadership of the country. Stalin was able to raise and mobilize a huge state in a very difficult period for it. And these leaders, being on the crest of the oil and gas pipe, continue the anti-people policy.
      4. aleks
        aleks 6 November 2013 15: 11
        +3
        They distorted the results twice, distorted them into the third. And as for Stalin, it’s just shameful, there isn’t political correctness here — one gnash of teeth and a nervous itch.
      5. tomket
        tomket 6 November 2013 21: 59
        +3
        Suddenly, after Stalin’s great-grandfather, Medvedev’s candidacy is enough, we’ll be left without a prime minister at the 9 of May !!!!! What a holiday would be. Triple so to speak)))))) eh, dreams .....
      6. Basarev
        Basarev 10 November 2013 10: 17
        0
        It is good that at least Nikolai Gerasimovich Kuznetsov was allowed ...
      7. Rusich51
        Rusich51 11 November 2013 17: 21
        0
        Quote: Dazdranagon
        The fact of the matter is that Stalin is not on the lists! He is "politically incorrect". hi

        In this case, definitely Suvorov.
    2. Civil
      Civil 6 November 2013 09: 18
      13
      How can you call the "heroes" of the participants of the civil war .... their own killed. This is a tragedy and a bit of a shame.
      1. Vadivak
        Vadivak 6 November 2013 09: 34
        13
        Quote: ...
        the organizers decided in advance to “prevent the election” of some, let's say, uncomfortable candidates. The same Joseph Stalin, for example.


        The stump is clear. How after the victory of such a candidate makes excuses for his dark people before the civilized world?
      2. Thunderbolt
        Thunderbolt 6 November 2013 10: 32
        0
        Please specify ALL participants? or from some side?
      3. ed65b
        ed65b 6 November 2013 14: 44
        +1
        Quote: Civil
        How can you call the "heroes" of the participants of the civil war .... their own killed. This is a tragedy and a bit of a shame.

        I agree, here's how to choose Yudenich if my grandfather fought against him?
    3. Trailer
      Trailer 6 November 2013 09: 24
      18
      And here is how I can choose who is better - Alexander Nevsky, Suvorov, Ushakov, Kutuzov, Zhukov or Rokosovsky?
      1. Dazdranagon
        Dazdranagon 6 November 2013 09: 27
        +3
        We select the best 10-ku. hi
      2. Igor39
        Igor39 6 November 2013 09: 48
        13
        Suvorov is certainly the best commander!
        1. paunch
          paunch 6 November 2013 10: 13
          +7
          I agree. he is the only one who has not lost a single battle
          1. Dimych
            Dimych 6 November 2013 10: 50
            +5
            And what Ushakov lost?
            1. Yashka Gorobets
              Yashka Gorobets 6 November 2013 14: 37
              +3
              That's right, Suvorov and Ushakov should be in the first place. One is not an unsurpassed commander, the other is a naval commander. All the rest after them in random order, as you like.
        2. Igor39
          Igor39 6 November 2013 10: 42
          +4
          Suvorov generalissimo! And Stalin himself wanted to be like him!
      3. Skiff
        Skiff 6 November 2013 09: 52
        +4
        All are good, all come first, each has made a gigantic contribution to the history of Russia.
    4. klimpopov
      klimpopov 6 November 2013 09: 30
      19
      There is no Stalin))) Probably not watered correctly. There is no legendary Ustinov. There are not many. But there is Trotsky fellow
      It is strange that there is Ivan the Terrible. There is no Peter the Great (which is at least strange, although I am FOR).
      Well, good luck. We'll see. Again, it is strange that there is no Imam Shamil laughing
      1. Tersky
        Tersky 6 November 2013 09: 38
        +8
        Quote: klimpopov
        Well, good luck. We'll see. Again, it is strange that there is no Imam Shamil

        Klim hi ! Yeah ... and the Kadyrovs' heroes. And the way is again the same as the "Symbol of Russia", money-making through mobile operators.
        1. klimpopov
          klimpopov 6 November 2013 09: 47
          +3
          And the path is again the same as the "Symbol of Russia",

          Greetings!
          Well, good business on patriots! I honestly applaud standing up for the idea (as a business)!)))
      2. Vadivak
        Vadivak 6 November 2013 09: 52
        15
        Quote: ..
        At one stage of the competition, it became clear that voters were giving the title of the main attraction of Russia to the Grozny mosque “Heart of Chechnya”.


        Yes, it’s not a question, soon millions will vote for the monument to 46 Chechen girls who died during the storming of the Dadi-Yurt aul by Russian troops on September 15, 1819

        Ramzan Akhmatovichi also made a speech.
        This settlement was completely burned by order of Ermolov. All residents, including women, the elderly, children, were killed. Girls Dadin Aybika, Amaran Zazu and their friends inspired the songs of the village defenders, and when they were captured, they threw themselves into the stormy waters of the Terek with their hands tied. They preferred death to dishonor. It was on the day of their feat that we timed the celebration of the Day of the Chechen woman
        four years ago, Ramzan Akhmatovich himself described the events in a slightly different way:

        “We are also organizing this holiday to commemorate the feat of 46 Chechen girls, who were led by Dadin Aybika on September 15, 1819 after the village of Dadi-Yurt was completely destroyed and burned by the troops of General Yermolov and the girls were captured during the crossing "The river Terek preferred death in the waves of the river to a shameful captivity and did not want to be touched by the hands of those who were responsible for the murder of fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, guilty of burning the native village, and they rushed into the river."

        The third version was voiced by Chechenews.com, according to which the girls drowned along with the escorts, but specifically Dadi Aybika died on enemy bayonets. There is an opinion that there were 36 girls and they drowned along with 36 officers who were about to rape them ... So drowned with their hands tied or rushed into the water along with the escorts? When Kadyrov lied: four years ago, now, or both times? How did the beautiful Dadi Aybika die? And in general, where did the information about drowned virgins come from?


        It’s just that there is nothing of the kind in the historical documents of that time, although Aleksey Ermolov, the manager of the civilian unit in Georgia, the Astrakhan and Caucasus provinces, describing the assault on the aul, does not hide the cruelty of the battle and only indicates that a punitive expedition was undertaken in response to Chechen raids

        Ermoloff
        the inhabitants of the village were the most important of the robbers, and without their participation, as the closest to the line, almost no theft and robbery occurred;
        (“Notes by A. P. Ermolov. 1798 – 1826”, Moscow: Higher School, 1991)
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. lelikas
          lelikas 6 November 2013 10: 31
          +7
          And the whole village was going to rape at once, but because for some reason everyone died, except for beautiful but very proud girls, by the way who surrendered themselves, they decided only them and only at the crossing ...
          Where is the emoticon "sick" - I certainly understand that the children of the mountains will easily lead to this, but you also need to have a conscience.
          And they forgot to turn on Mercedes Pasha (here you need a smiley hellish sarcasm).
        3. alone
          alone 6 November 2013 20: 52
          +1
          it would be better to drown ramzan.
        4. Mature naturalist
          Mature naturalist 6 November 2013 21: 56
          0
          To fence with a thorn and not to let out ...
      3. Thunderbolt
        Thunderbolt 6 November 2013 10: 34
        +9
        Here is the question: But what is Trotsky there?
        1. DEfindER
          DEfindER 6 November 2013 10: 58
          +3
          Quote: Thunderbolt
          Here is the question: But what is Trotsky there?

          Apparently Stalin had to be replaced by someone and his main enemy in the party was chosen.
        2. RUSS
          RUSS 6 November 2013 11: 12
          +7
          Trotsky is visible as the creator of the Red Army, but as a commander this is nonsense.
          1. ed65b
            ed65b 6 November 2013 14: 47
            +2
            Quote: RUSS
            Trotsky is visible as the creator of the Red Army, but as a commander this is nonsense.

            The ice ax was driven into his skull for good reason.
        3. Egoza
          Egoza 6 November 2013 11: 53
          +4
          Quote: Thunderbolt
          But what is Trotsky?

          It doesn’t give the Trotskyists peace that their leader has been completely forgotten! But his business lives and thrives! am
          1. washi
            washi 6 November 2013 15: 36
            +2
            Quote: Egoza
            Quote: Thunderbolt
            But what is Trotsky?

            It doesn’t give the Trotskyists peace that their leader has been completely forgotten! But his business lives and thrives! am

            But this is definitely noticed.
            Khrushchev is a Trotskyist, but his cause is booming
            1. Revolver
              Revolver 6 November 2013 21: 02
              +1
              Quote: Vasya
              Quote: Egoza
              Quote: Thunderbolt
              But what is Trotsky?

              It doesn’t give the Trotskyists peace that their leader has been completely forgotten! But his business lives and thrives! am

              But this is definitely noticed.
              Khrushchev is a Trotskyist, but his cause is booming
              Well, how - Khrushchev was the greatest (according to the version that existed from 1953 to 1964) political worker of the Second World War. It was thanks to his sensitive party leadership that Zhukov (according to the version that existed from 1953 to 1957), and who, according to the version 1958-1964, do not remember offhand, won all the great victories.
              True, after 1964 these ideas quietly hushed up and decided that the main battle was on Malaya Zemlya, and the greatest political worker was the Marshal of the Soviet Union, knight of the Order of Victory, personally dear comrade Leonid Ilyich Brezhnev.

              As for Trotsky, it’s strange that he is on a very honorable 55th place, and there were already 215 cranks in the letter M who voted for him.
      4. Dimok
        Dimok 11 November 2013 23: 47
        0
        As for Shamil, wait, Kadyrov will throw a tantrum, stamp with a leg and Shamil will appear with Kadyrov Sr.
    5. T80UM1
      T80UM1 6 November 2013 11: 44
      0
      I hope the Czech heroes (Ramzan) will not be on the list ???
    6. baltika-18
      baltika-18 6 November 2013 11: 51
      +6
      Quote: INTER
      We have a lot of heroes and it’s hard to say for sure about anyone

      But I’ll add that it’s not quite correct to compare military leaders of different eras. You can compare Nevsky with Donskoy, suppose they lived at about the same level of knowledge of military affairs, tactics and strategy, the level of development of weapons and technologies. But compare world war II commanders with commanders of the 13th century and even 18 are not correct. The levels are different. So the next show in which there is not much sense.
      1. Egoza
        Egoza 6 November 2013 11: 56
        +3
        Quote: baltika-18
        So the next show in which there is not much sense.

        The point is to distract so many people from real problems. Let them better discuss, send SMS, speak out, participate in the show, than they really get together and organize, but they won’t show the bills to the authorities. hi
        1. baltika-18
          baltika-18 6 November 2013 15: 39
          +1
          Quote: Egoza
          The point is to distract so many people from real problems

          If only this, Lena. But after all, less and less people are led to this every year.
    7. starshina78
      starshina78 6 November 2013 12: 07
      +2
      It is correctly written in the article that there will be another scandal or a simple fraud to get the desired result. Almost always, the opinion of the people is fundamentally different from the opinion of the authorities, and most importantly, from that part of this very government, which is represented by those who cannot tolerate everything Soviet on the nose. This is for them, like a red rag for a bull. So the next vote at the option of someone can be disrupted.
    8. vladimirZ
      vladimirZ 6 November 2013 12: 09
      +8
      The name of Generalissimo Stalin Joseph Vissarionovich must be in the lists of participants in the competition. Without it, this contest is profanity !!!
      Remember only the words of the same marshals Zhukov, Rokossovsky, subordinates of Stalin I.V. Stalin’s military participation in the development of WWII operations.
    9. Russ69
      Russ69 6 November 2013 12: 15
      +1
      Quote: INTER
      We have a lot of heroes and it’s hard to say for sure about anyone. I think Stalin will be on top!

      I respect Stalin, but he is not a military leader yet, but the head of state in the most difficult years. These are slightly different things. Otherwise, it is necessary to list all the leaders of the country in which victories were won.
      Although the list contains names that are still not for this contest.
      1. cosmos111
        cosmos111 6 November 2013 14: 49
        +2
        Most of all to me, op VASILY IVANOVICH CHAPAEV.
        The real Russian com .. div. was.
        1. washi
          washi 6 November 2013 15: 49
          +3
          If Chapaev were a commander, he would be alive.
          Due to the lack of security organization, ditch the division?
          However, Cossack formations always suffered from this.
          Rob, rest, walk on the bodies of women.
          1. Tersky
            Tersky 6 November 2013 19: 11
            +4
            Quote: Vasya
            However, Cossack formations always suffered from this.

            Vasya, and where does the Cossacks -The division was formed on July 30 of the 1918 of the year in Nikolaevsk (now Pugachev) (Volga Region) from volunteers as a division of the Nikolaev regiments. From September 21 of 1918 of the year it was called the 1-th Nikolaev Nikolaev infantry division, from September 25 of the 1918 of the year-the 1-th Samara infantry division, from November 19 of the 1918 of the year-25-th infantry division, from October 4 of the 1919-th year . V.I. Chapaev Division.Or have the Cossacks raped your grandmother that you breathe so unevenly towards the Cossacks? Already wrote something like that, do not spit in the direction of one and a half million Russian populations, because if you spit in response, you’ll drown.
      2. washi
        washi 6 November 2013 15: 41
        0
        Quote: Russ69
        Quote: INTER
        We have a lot of heroes and it’s hard to say for sure about anyone. I think Stalin will be on top!

        I respect Stalin, but he is not a military leader yet, but the head of state in the most difficult years. These are slightly different things. Otherwise, it is necessary to list all the leaders of the country in which victories were won.
        Although the list contains names that are still not for this contest.

        And try, even to carry out a regimental offensive, without organizing rear and auxiliary units.
        And then organize the defense and offensive of ALL armed groups.
        He was not a commander, but he had to become one.
      3. Uncle lee
        Uncle lee 6 November 2013 15: 47
        +9
        Stalin I.V. was chairman of the GKO, People's Commissar of Defense and Supreme Commander-in-Chief, in 43 Marshal, and in 45 Generalissimo soldier
    10. Turkestan
      Turkestan 6 November 2013 19: 13
      +3
      And in general, the competition is called NAME OF VICTORY if we are talking about the Second World War, and here the Royal Generals. The biased organizers are engaged in the manipulation of public opinion.
    11. The comment was deleted.
    12. Denis Davydov
      Denis Davydov 1 January 2014 02: 39
      0
      When I heard about this, about this stupidity, which in this form - "The Name of Victory" could not come up, friends, because this vegetable simply has nothing to think about, which could shake up - I was shocked. The shock of how much you need to be limited ... sick ... no words. What can one reach, whether from idleness, or from some kind of stupidity. Better than saying in the words of Mikhail Matusovsky: "What do you say your name is, ..... And she answered VICTORY". VICTORY - VICTORY - this is the name of the great achievement of human collective power, will, honor, love, in the name of the highest values ​​of freedom, peace and creation. VICTORY - VICTORY it is the only, unique, universal criterion for triumph, the triumph of the highest qualities and capabilities of Homo sapiens on Earth - as God, Creator, Universe, Earth.
      And let the one who shouted this "competition" in delirium, but by and large, incited the people with his paranoid delirium to this blasphemy, rename the name of his mother, father, child ... This is nonsense. And to indulge in such a blatant ignorance and sick imagination means to become like this deeply sick single-celled organism.
    13. Denis Davydov
      Denis Davydov 1 January 2014 23: 11
      0
      How far you can go, whether from idleness, or some kind of stupidity .... VICTORY - VICTORY is the name of the great achievement of human collective strength, will, honor, love, in the name of the highest values ​​of freedom, peace and creation. VICTORY - VICTORY is a universal criterion for the triumph of the highest qualities and capabilities of Homo sapiens on Earth - it is like God, Creator, Universe, Earth. It’s better not to say in the words of Mikhail Matusovsky: "What is your name, ....., And she answered, VICTORY."
      And let the one who "loudly shouted from the branches" about this "competition": and incited the people to this blasphemy, rename the name of his mother, fatherland .... RAVE. And to indulge in such a blatant ignorance and sick imagination means to become like this deeply sick single-celled organism.
      Suvorov, Nakhimov, ..., Stalin, Zhukov are symbols of the victories of the Great People, the Great Power of Russia, and each of them represents, to one degree or another, the triumph of the highest achievements of the social formation in the struggle for peace, life: the development and prosperity of the highest values, and the name this triumph - VICTORIA!
  2. aszzz888
    aszzz888 6 November 2013 08: 48
    +7
    It is impossible to specifically give preference to someone. Many, many military commanders and commanders deserve the highest praise!
    1. Starfish
      Starfish 6 November 2013 10: 15
      +7
      I agree. Enough of these "beauty contests". great commanders did not need them and do not need them.
      it would be better if they wrote a normal history textbook.
    2. strannik595
      strannik595 6 November 2013 10: 37
      +5
      Georgy Konstantinovich Zhukov outside time, space and competition ....... as a symbol of Victory and Savior of the Fatherland from total destruction...... Suvorov the great, but in his time no one, neither Turks nor Europeans, had the strength or the ability to destroy Russia, unlike the Germans of 1941 .... he saved the European monarchs and multiplied the greatness of the state, but Russia did not stand on the verge of physical destruction, the enemy did not stand under the walls of Moscow and St. Petersburg
      1. DEfindER
        DEfindER 6 November 2013 11: 04
        10
        Quote: strannik595
        Georgy Konstantinovich Zhukov outside time, space and competition ....... as a symbol of Victory and Savior of the Fatherland

        Zhukov led specific operations, and was indeed a very talented commander, but Stalin directly set him in the right direction, for example, to break through the blockade of Leningrad, etc. And such successful commanders as Zhukov were not few, Rokosovsky, Chuykov and many others. But how to properly manage all the armed forces of the country, and not a specific army, will obviously be more difficult, and here we need more talent than Zhukov.
        1. strannik595
          strannik595 6 November 2013 12: 03
          0
          we are talking about the Symbol of Victory ... Victory Name ...... and who else but George, on a white horse, heading the Victory Parade, is suitable for this role? ..... so that in meaning everything is correct ..... . undoubtedly there were no less talented and talented commanders than G.K.Zhukov ...... but he is a symbol, Marshal of Victory forever
          1. Egoza
            Egoza 6 November 2013 12: 13
            0
            Quote: strannik595
            he is a symbol, Marshal of Victory

            Agree! But why not make a determination over the centuries? In every century, you can find great commanders. By the way, is there Genghis Khan? laughing
            1. strannik595
              strannik595 6 November 2013 12: 37
              +1
              also an interesting option ....... but it must be waited for when the contest in Mongolia will be held
            2. DEfindER
              DEfindER 6 November 2013 13: 28
              -2
              Quote: Egoza
              In every century, you can find great commanders. By the way, is there Genghis Khan?

              You rightly noticed that. I consider him a purely Russian commander. And by the way, his capital city of Saray was near Stalingrad .. :)
          2. DEfindER
            DEfindER 6 November 2013 13: 22
            0
            Quote: strannik595
            G.K.Zhukov ...... but he is a symbol, Marshal of Victory forever

            Before the arrival of Khrushchev, the symbol of victory among the people was Stalin and Zhukov, and it was in this sequence. And when Stalin began to lower the grains, Zhukov naturally remained alone as a symbol .. so I understand your position ..
        2. Bigriver
          Bigriver 6 November 2013 13: 26
          +3
          Quote: DEfindER
          Zhukov led specific operations, and really was a very talented commander ...
          And such successful commanders as Zhukov were not few, Rokosovsky, Chuykov and many others ...

          The role of Zhukov is not in some kind of distinctive military leader's talent or special "handwriting". For most of the war, he had a unique role - the representative of the rate on the most important strategic directions. That is, he coordinated the action of the FRONTS on the ground. Here in this hypostasis - he was out of competition. There was enough energy smile
          A similar role in the second half of the war was played by Vasilevsky. Then, however, he went to command the front instead of the deceased Chernyakhovsky.
          They were representatives of the Supreme High Command and other persons. But, they have proved themselves little.
        3. washi
          washi 6 November 2013 15: 52
          +1
          Quote: DEfindER
          Quote: strannik595
          Georgy Konstantinovich Zhukov outside time, space and competition ....... as a symbol of Victory and Savior of the Fatherland

          Zhukov led specific operations, and was indeed a very talented commander, but Stalin directly set him in the right direction, for example, to break through the blockade of Leningrad, etc. And such successful commanders as Zhukov were not few, Rokosovsky, Chuykov and many others. But how to properly manage all the armed forces of the country, and not a specific army, will obviously be more difficult, and here we need more talent than Zhukov.

          You do not know the story well.
          You know more precisely, but in its modern (Khrushchev-Zhukovsky) version.
        4. alone
          alone 6 November 2013 20: 55
          +4
          The symbol of Victory is a simple Soviet soldier. Do not be surprised, it is a simple Soviet soldier. He carried the brunt of the war on his shoulders. If our grandfathers did not survive, even 1000 Zhukovs would not have achieved anything
      2. Papakiko
        Papakiko 6 November 2013 14: 31
        +5
        Quote: strannik595
        Suvorov the great, but in his time no one, neither Turks nor Europeans, had the strength or the ability to destroy Russia, unlike the Germans of 1941 .... he saved the European monarchs and multiplied the greatness of the state, but Russia did not stand on the verge physical destruction, the enemy did not stand under the walls of Moscow and St. Petersburg

        Igor.
        I am surprised at your words.
        Suvorov laid the foundations for the victory of Kutuzov over Boanapart in the difficult year of 1812. Suvorov was the measure of military art for officers.
        Already not counting the number of centuries, as we are faced with the question "To live or not to live." In the past century, 2 times stood on the doorstep with an open door and a raised foot in a parallel universe. And twice this door was wiped.
        At every time in history, the nation had a "voivode" and the nation stood up.

        Now about that Disgrace- "Symbols of Russia", "Russia 2008" and "Symbols of Victory". Promoters-distributors-marketers of all such "projects" on an aspen stake together with their families.
        If the state needs to create the appearance of work, then it is possible at the time of the All-Russian Census and conduct a per capita survey about all kinds of symbols. After such projects, projects of sympathy for the RF Armed Forces will not appear:

        But still they understand that the main thing is pilBABLA. hi
    3. ammunition
      ammunition 6 November 2013 14: 52
      +2
      Quote: aszzz888
      It is impossible to specifically give preference to someone. Many, many military commanders and commanders deserve the highest praise!


      However, sometimes it comes to senility. Great and invincible RUMYANTSEV
      , which took Berlin, which under Cahul destroyed the 150 thousandth army of the enemy, with its forces in 28 thousand thousand, is on 41-m Place.
      And Kolchak .. who did not beat anyone, is in the 28 place.
      -----------
      The question is - Where is the logic of the voters?
      1. ammunition
        ammunition 6 November 2013 15: 18
        +1
        *Amendment
        Kolchak generally 20-m
        1. ammunition
          ammunition 6 November 2013 18: 26
          0
          Insanity was strong laughing

          The Count and Field Marshal Peter Alexandrovich Rumyantsev-Zadunaisky, who brilliantly won TWO WARS with Turkey, and triumphantly participated in the end of the 7-millennium war. So Friedrich himself took off his hat, rolled back to the 42 place.
          But Kolchak, ... it is not clear ... what won the war .. and whether the winner? .. Or at least some naval battle .. climbed Already on the 19 place. While writing. he is already on 18 .. and not far from the first what
          --------
          Or is it not insanity? wassat
          1. ammunition
            ammunition 6 November 2013 23: 50
            +1
            sad

            I think I understood why the greatest commander and strategist Graf and General-Field Marshal Pyotr Aleksandrovich Rumyantsev-Zadunaysky was not popular with voters.
            ----------
            The fact that the organizers stuck most ugly portrait of the great commander. Not a portrait, but a caricature. Which donkey painted like that?
            -------
            Compare with the normal portrait of the count -
            http://go.mail.ru/search_images?q=%D0%A0%D1%83%D0%BC%D1%8F%D0%BD%D1%86%D0%B5%D0%
            B2-%D0%97%D0%B0%D0%B4%D1%83%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%B9%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9%2C%20%D0%9
            F%D1%91%D1%82%D1%80%20%D0%90%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%81%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B4%D1%80%D0%
            BE%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%87%20&fr=rc&rch=l&jsa=1#descr=%3Cb%3E%D0%9F%D0%B5%D1%82%D1%80%
            3C/b%3E%20%3Cb%3E%D0%90%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%81%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B4%D1%80%D0%BE%D0
            %B2%D0%B8%D1%87%3C/b%3E%20%3Cb%3E%D0%A0%D1%83%D0%BC%D1%8F%D0%BD%D1%86%D0%B5%D0%B
            2%3C/b%3E-%3Cb%3E%D0%97%D0%B0%D0%B4%D1%83%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%B9%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0
            %B9%3C/b%3E%20%281725...&h=537&pic=http%3A//ukrhata.x53.ru/179629.jpg&s=72292&w=
            400 & page = http% 3A // ukrhata.x53.ru / poltava.htm
      2. aviator65
        aviator65 7 November 2013 02: 40
        +1
        Quote: ammunition
        The question is - Where is the logic of the voters?

        Totally agree with you! Question from the series: "Who do you love more, dad or mom?" We had many Victories, and each had its own creators, commanders. Now you need to evaluate everyone by rating?
  3. Vladimirets
    Vladimirets 6 November 2013 08: 48
    11
    "Ivan the Terrible is on the list, Vladimir Monomakh is, Ivan III is, but, for example, Peter I is not."

    Your affairs are wonderful ... what Or maybe it would be more honest to let the people choose the candidates themselves, although someone who is really "uncomfortable" can win.
  4. Silkway0026
    Silkway0026 6 November 2013 08: 49
    11
    if Stalin is not on this list, then this is a scam. complete garbage.
    1. Sunjar
      Sunjar 6 November 2013 09: 17
      +9
      They are for the place of Stalin I.V. They will put Zhukov or Rokosovsky: everyone knows that Stalin did not contribute to the victory in World War II (hard sarcasm)

      And the fact that they will make good money on this is yes. If every citizen will be allowed to vote a mile once a day - look, but "The Name of Victory" will be Ramzan Kadyrov or even Shamil Basayev.
      1. klimpopov
        klimpopov 6 November 2013 09: 38
        +2
        Ramzan Kadyrov will be or Shamil Basayev even.

        It's five!
        Again, it is strange that there is no Imam Shamil laughing
      2. Draz
        Draz 6 November 2013 09: 39
        +2
        Do you excuse me at all on the "resource"?
        There you vote for FREE, although no, it’s enough to pay for traffic, but apparently there are no problems stop
        1. klimpopov
          klimpopov 6 November 2013 09: 47
          +2
          Wait, there will be an SMS vote. laughing
  5. pensioner
    pensioner 6 November 2013 09: 02
    15
    In 1965. the 20th anniversary of the end of WW2 was widely celebrated in Europe. So half of Europe was hung with posters with the image of Zhukov on which it was written: "The man who won the war." Suvorov is great, but he did not drive the enemy out of his native borders and he led the troops at the wrong moment, when the fate of the state hung in the balance. The situation in which Zhukov found himself at 41 was even more tragic than the one in which Kutuzov found himself. Marshal of Victory in one word. As young people say - IMHO. In general, the main creators of the Victory are private infantry Vanya, steelmaker Vasya and collective farmer Dusya. But contests for the embodiment of their images as creators of Victory will not be announced ...
    1. 4952915
      4952915 6 November 2013 09: 40
      +9
      With all due respect to the memory of G.K. Zhukov, we do not forget that he is not a commander, not an author of strategic plans, he is Deputy I.V. Stalin and representative of the Headquarters, i.e. a person watching over the execution of orders of the Supreme at the front.
      1. pensioner
        pensioner 6 November 2013 10: 00
        +6
        I agree completely and completely. That's just Stalin is still banned.
    2. Leisure
      Leisure 6 November 2013 12: 30
      +1
      About gray terry, we prefer not to remember. But as always.
    3. washi
      washi 6 November 2013 16: 05
      -2
      Quote: retired
      In 1965. the 20th anniversary of the end of WW2 was widely celebrated in Europe. So half of Europe was hung with posters with the image of Zhukov on which it was written: "The man who won the war." Suvorov is great, but he did not drive the enemy out of his native borders and he led the troops at the wrong moment, when the fate of the state hung in the balance. The situation in which Zhukov found himself in 41 was even more tragic than that in which Kutuzov found himself. Marshal of Victory in one word. As the youth says - IMHO. But in fact, the main creators of the Victory are ordinary infantry Vanya, steelworker Vasya and collective farmer Dusya. But competitions for the embodiment of their images as creators of Victory will not be announced ...

      This one himself created this situation. He was Chief of the General Staff. He is responsible for the death of the cadre army and militias at the beginning and end of the war (capture of Berlin).
      Why Grachev with his introduction of tanks into Grozny is criticized, and Zhukov, when taking Berlin) is a hero, although both had the experience of others who had already taken cities.
      By the way, Zhukov killed 2 Tank armies, and Grachev only (in size) the division.
      1. pensioner
        pensioner 6 November 2013 18: 10
        0
        Quote: Vasya
        Why Grachev with his introduction of tanks into Grozny is criticized, and Zhukov, when taking Berlin) is a hero

        The answer is in the question itself. The result is different. And the "prelude" to this result is also different. One of them has the Kursk Bulge and Bagration behind him, and the other has the phrase: "One regiment of the Airborne Forces will bring order to the whole of Chechnya!" ...
  6. Gardamir
    Gardamir 6 November 2013 09: 03
    +8
    Even Makhno is on this list. Madhouse on the road. But these kolchaks are why, we know about them that the white fought with the red. In short, down with Medina. This is not a minister of culture, some kind of show minister.
    1. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets 6 November 2013 09: 07
      +7
      Quote: Gardamir
      But these kolchaks are why, we know about them that the white fought with the red.

      In fact, Kolchak not only fought in the Civil. wink
      1. pavlo
        pavlo 6 November 2013 09: 28
        +2
        he is also gold with ..... silt!
        1. Onotollah
          Onotollah 6 November 2013 10: 51
          0
          Quote: pavlo
          he is also gold with ..... silt

          Most importantly, this not-so-good man sold himself to the arrogant Saxons and led the illegal armed formations in Russia for aglitsky banknotes.
          No wonder his Bolsheviks allowed to dive in the hangar.
          1. Warrawar
            Warrawar 6 November 2013 14: 15
            0
            Quote: Onotolle
            Most importantly, this not-so-good man sold out to the naughty Saxons

            The whole humor lies in the fact that it was the Reds who "sold" to the Naglo-Saxons.
            1. Onotollah
              Onotollah 6 November 2013 16: 26
              +1
              Quote: Warrawar
              The whole humor lies in the fact that it was the Reds who "sold" to the Naglo-Saxons.

              Perhaps you are right, but I just have a logical chain:
              foreign financing - waging war in their native land - killing civilians - diving in the hole
              seemed complete and verified, although I admit, not very tolerant.
              1. Warrawar
                Warrawar 6 November 2013 20: 08
                -1
                Quote: Onotolle

                Perhaps you are right, but I just have a logical chain:
                foreign financing - waging war in their native land - killing civilians - diving in the hole
                seemed complete and verified, although I admit, not very tolerant.

                Everything is extremely simple - Russia fought in World War I against Germany. Germany was the main sponsor of the communist revolution. As a result of the revolution, Russia emerged from the war as a loser, while being in the coalition of winners (ANTANTA) and broke up, simultaneously losing millions of souls and industry, as well as the intelligentsia and the Russian national state.
            2. pensioner
              pensioner 6 November 2013 20: 02
              +1
              Quote: Warrawar
              It was the red ones who sold out to the Naglo-Saxons.

              What is it like? The Germans - where else did not go ... I heard. But what would the Angles have? But what about the answer to Curzon, etc.? Munich conspiracy? A strange war? It’s even hard to imagine the answer to the question: to whom were they sold? - so it's the English. I do not remember a single period in the history of the USSR that would have been not only friendly, but at least benevolent relations with England. Moreover. After 49g. it was England that was the guarantee of non-aggression of the USA against the USSR. Because England has become a hostage. We couldn’t strike a nuclear strike on the USA, but on England. And how. And they sold out? I do not understand...
              1. Warrawar
                Warrawar 6 November 2013 20: 09
                -1
                Quote: retired
                What is it like? The Germans - where else did not go ... I heard. But what would the Angles have?

                The Germans are also Anglo-Saxons.
                Anglo-Saxons (Eng. Anglo-Saxons, German: Angelsachsen, Dat. Angelsakser) - historians give this name to the Germanic tribes of Angles and Saxons, to which the Utes joined. These tribes, living between the Elbe and Rhine rivers (the area of ​​the Saxon settlement) and on the Jutland Peninsula (the area of ​​the settlement of Angles and Jutes), in the middle of the XNUMXth century, like many other tribes of Northern Europe, most likely as a result of climate change, began to move to Britain.
                1. pensioner
                  pensioner 6 November 2013 20: 48
                  +1
                  Quote: Warrawar
                  The Germans are also Anglo-Saxons.

                  For several centuries they soaked each other with rapture ... And now, the most unpopular politician in Germany is the English prime minister. Moreover, regardless of his personality. Premier? Of England? Everything sucks. Well, the British also respond to the Germans with all possible reciprocity. I once read what the British press writes about Merkel (about 5 years ago ... in the translation of our especially gifted nerds). Top hatred and bullying ...
                  1. Warrawar
                    Warrawar 6 November 2013 21: 07
                    0
                    Quote: retired
                    They soaked each other several centuries with rapture

                    Nevertheless, the Germans are Anglo-Saxons. Angles is a tribe settled on foggy Albeon, and the Saxons are one of the German nationalities living in Germany.
                    And the fact that they have been at enmity for centuries is not surprising, the Poles and I are also kind of like Slav brothers, and the enmity is also age-old.
          2. washi
            washi 6 November 2013 16: 09
            0
            Quote: Onotolle
            Quote: pavlo
            he is also gold with ..... silt

            Most importantly, this not-so-good man sold himself to the arrogant Saxons and led the illegal armed formations in Russia for aglitsky banknotes.
            No wonder his Bolsheviks allowed to dive in the hangar.

            Unfortunately, not the Bolsheviks, because they have only employers, and SR - they have Jewish funding, not Anglo-Saxon.
            1. Onotollah
              Onotollah 6 November 2013 16: 35
              0
              Quote: Vasya
              not the Bolsheviks, because they have only employers, and CP

              laughing
              If I’m not mistaken there, the Soviets of soldiers, workers and peasants' deputies had a hand in it. Are we talking about them?
      2. creak
        creak 6 November 2013 09: 36
        +8
        I support. We know about them, it seems that not all WE know ... Kolchak not only fought (in Russian-Japanese and World War I), was awarded several times ... He also spent three years researching the Arctic, spent two winters there, made up ice movement maps and locations ... It’s also part of our ambiguous and tragic history ... And the fact that YOU don’t know about it, it’s not Kolchak’s fault ... And the Czechs, who betrayed it in red, left part of Russia's gold reserve. Did he take it in his pockets?
        1. Onotollah
          Onotollah 6 November 2013 11: 43
          +2
          Quote: ranger
          He is also part of our controversial and tragic story.

          Only recalled and embarrassed.
          Quote: ranger
          He also spent three years researching the Arctic,

          Yes, but there is a small and very important "BUT": In the position of a senior assistant of a junior shit-cleaner in the expedition of a truly great scientist O.Yu. Schmidt (yes, that very one).
          So the value of this "scientist" is comparable to the value of another "scientist" academician Kadyrov.
          Quote: ranger
          And part of the gold reserve of Russia was left to them by the Czechs, who issued it in red.

          The Czechs he led - aren't they?
          Quite by accident (!) The armed formations of another country (!!) ended up on the territory of another country (where the Czech Republic and Baikal; 5-6 thousand missed in kilometer terms, well this is a trifle, a completely mundane and banal situation) and quite by accident a little killed (as a joke), robbed (it turned out, they didn’t want to), well, they nailed it, too (well, a little, half a bump) the local population.
          And so of course, Kolchik is a hero, just like Ramzan. He killed only the first Russian at the age of 16, of course, there was a mistake.
          1. creak
            creak 6 November 2013 14: 21
            -1
            Onotollah

            Before you judge everything backhand, at least bother to get acquainted with the elementary facts. Kolchak's polar expedition began in 1900 on the schooner Zarya under the leadership of Toll, who then disappeared in the Arctic. O.Yu. Schmidt in 1909 . just finished gymnasium. And when O.Yu.Schmidt conducted his expeditions - was it not in the thirties, already under Soviet rule, on the Sedov icebreaker? So no g ..., Kolchak could not have been anyone else with Schmidt ... Learn Russian history and don’t give out such pearls anymore ... And the Czechoslovak corps was in Russia not by chance - it was formed back in the years of WWI from prisoners of war of the Austro- Hungarian army to fight Germany ... But that's a completely different story.
            1. Onotollah
              Onotollah 6 November 2013 16: 09
              +1
              Quote: ranger
              in 1900 on the schooner "Zarya" under the leadership of Toll

              I admit, got excited. Was excited.
              Thanks for the clarification. hi
              It simply seemed to me unreasonable to belittle the merits of the expedition leader in favor of K.
              But what about the service to the British and the killings of civilians, I hope I wasn’t mistaken?
              1. creak
                creak 6 November 2013 17: 18
                +2
                Regarding the executions, I have already expressed myself in my previous commentary, I don’t see any point in repeating ... The atrocities and executions were on both sides and, as you know, not only in Siberia ... I don’t think that Izhevsk and Votkinsk workers formed one of the most persistent and combat-ready formations of Kolchak’s army, served the British. Each one had his own truth, both with Kolchak and Budyonny, with Frunze and Kappel, and they all deserved their place in history ... All the best.
        2. washi
          washi 6 November 2013 16: 22
          +3
          Quote: ranger
          I support. We know about them, it seems that not all WE know ... Kolchak not only fought (in Russian-Japanese and World War I), was awarded several times ... He also spent three years researching the Arctic, spent two winters there, made up ice movement maps and locations ... It’s also part of our ambiguous and tragic history ... And the fact that YOU don’t know about it, it’s not Kolchak’s fault ... And the Czechs, who betrayed it in red, left part of Russia's gold reserve. Did he take it in his pockets?

          Watch less films about this cocaine player.
          The Angles made him the leader of the Siberian Republic (formed by the Menshiviks). He made a Directory of the republic (by concluding agreements on the granting of concessions to the Angles, Amers and Yapas), promised the peasants land (there was always a lot of it in Siberia). And he began (in Siberia) to forcibly seize the product and carry out the "appeal".
          Whoever comes to us (to Siberia) with a bad one will be lost in the Taiga, or the Barrens.
      3. Gardamir
        Gardamir 6 November 2013 10: 08
        -3
        Firstly, all its advantages are crossed out by participation in the civil. But I meant the generally accepted (promoted). For me in the light of what is happening in our culture. Kolchak is an opera with a killer who hung out with D'Artagnan's daughter. Not at this time to hold such contests, which lead to an aggravation of relations.
        1. creak
          creak 6 November 2013 10: 38
          +7
          Regarding the contests, I agree, there is too much discord in society ... However, in the civil war there were no whites and fluffy on either side, it was not only Kolchak people who were flogged and hung up ... When a brother goes to a brother, and a son to a father. Remember at least "Quiet Don". It is a pity that in our culture the image of truly tragic and ambiguous historical events is presented as primitive soap. Hence the division only into black and white and no half-tones.
  7. Ols76
    Ols76 6 November 2013 09: 11
    +3
    We have a lot of heroes!
  8. GUSAR
    GUSAR 6 November 2013 09: 13
    17
    These moronic contests are sick and tired! What name can a victory have if any victory is a shared merit? after the scandal with the "Symbol of Russia" competition, or whatever it was, I said why it is needed, because each region is for itself, the country is being divided on the basis of monuments, it would be better if they talked about these monuments on TV in prime time. Now there will be a srach about the generals, admirals, who needs it ?!
    1. Gardamir
      Gardamir 6 November 2013 10: 10
      +5
      This is a loot competition. We are seriously arguing here. And they have a business.
      1. Starfish
        Starfish 6 November 2013 10: 21
        +3
        "These moronic contests have bothered!"

        these in the ministry of culture were as idiots as they remained, if not enemies. they fund such films that muddy our history that it’s time not only to drive them out, but probably to plant them.
        but about our TV generally keep quiet - one word shit. normal channels 1-2 and missed. and the 1st with the TV channel "Russia" do not belong to them. the dominance of foreigners of Middle Eastern nationality and vulgarity is off scale there.
    2. Luga
      Luga 6 November 2013 11: 28
      +1
      Quote: GUSAR
      Zadolbali these moronic contests!


      I agree, I'm sick of it. And on the other hand, now if something is not a competition, then no one is interested. They wouldn’t have made a competition - no one would have noticed.
      And an attempt to arouse interest in history in itself deserves, if not respect, then encouragement.
      On central channels, more about the contest and about the nominees is needed, instead of what they now show - talk shows and TV shows.
      It is not so important who wins the competition, as that children in schools begin to argue each for their candidate.
  9. Khokhol-MSC
    Khokhol-MSC 6 November 2013 09: 17
    +8
    Indeed, there is no Joseph Vissarionovich.
    A scam that will then be declared "the will of the people" and all channels and media will be flooded with snot about the democratic choice.
    1. FRITZ LANG
      FRITZ LANG 6 November 2013 10: 58
      +4
      Well, if everyone is against the fact that Joseph Vissarionovich is not on the list, let them not vote, here are the organizers and the excuse .... to rush. Although ........., no, it’s not a shame well !!!!
      1. FRITZ LANG
        FRITZ LANG 6 November 2013 11: 23
        +2
        minus the flag?
  10. Dazdranagon
    Dazdranagon 6 November 2013 09: 22
    +1
    The main thing is that some Shamil does not win ... wassat
  11. 77bor1973
    77bor1973 6 November 2013 09: 22
    +3
    No Peter the first is utter nonsense.
    1. washi
      washi 6 November 2013 16: 37
      -1
      After Pider, 1 country lost 2 \ 3 of the population, traditional crafts, traditions of weapons (including firearms), shipbuilding - exceeding the European one, were destroyed.
      During the northern wars, losses from southern raids and famine accounted for most of the losses.
      The absence of normal legislation (a mixture of old and new laws, sometimes mutually exclusive), the absence of the See of Succession and the destruction of the Russian Truth (the laws of Ivan the Great) led to the 4 revolutions.
      To call the murderer of the state and Russian people the best ....
    2. Dimok
      Dimok 11 November 2013 23: 58
      0
      It was more embarrassing that there was no Rokhlin, but there was a Swan.
      In general, it would be better to vote for the title of the FULL ASSET, and the names of Gorbachev, Yeltsin, Putin, "Dimon" Medvedev.
  12. makarov
    makarov 6 November 2013 09: 23
    +5
    I suppose that this project is a separate element of political strategists, just its full goal is not yet clear, but you can guess.
    1. JonnyT
      JonnyT 6 November 2013 10: 50
      +2
      they will analyze ratings and, for new elections, blind the image of the receiver based on this data
  13. vlad0
    vlad0 6 November 2013 09: 28
    +5
    I hope Shamil will not be on the list? And then again he will receive 40 million, and we will be surprised at our victories once again ... belay
    1. Toporkoff
      Toporkoff 6 November 2013 11: 00
      +2
      By the way, and Prince Baryatinsky A.I. no) There is no Shamil - and there will be no captor of him)
    2. Warrawar
      Warrawar 6 November 2013 14: 17
      +2
      Quote: vlad0
      I hope Shamil will not be on the list? And then again he will receive 40 million, and we will be surprised at our victories once again ... belay

      There is no Shamil, but there are Ermolov. Include in the top ten, at the first stage of the vote, General Yermolov, let the Chechens moan.
  14. Rattenfanger
    Rattenfanger 6 November 2013 09: 31
    11
    These contests imbitsily come up with, honestly! How can you choose the best between, for example, Suvorov, Rokossovsky and Kutuzov? This is from the category "who is stronger than a whale or an elephant" / "whom do you love more, dad or mom."
  15. Hort
    Hort 6 November 2013 09: 31
    +9
    I don't understand the meaning of such contests. What prevents you from simply filming a series of documentaries about outstanding people, instead of another moronic series, like "Ashes"? Let's start, let's say, with Rurik and Svyatoslav and further down the history to Soviet Zhukov and Rokossovsky.

    Take the same Kolchak: you can shoot about him wonderful documentary a film on Arctic exploration.
    1. the polar
      the polar 6 November 2013 09: 49
      +7
      Yes, it is necessary to make a film about Kolchak, how he worked for the British and Japanese intelligence, how the Kolchak punishers shot flogged and hung up civilians, women and children of the elderly, more than six hundred thousand people. As all Siberians took up arms against him, up to one and a half million people of Siberia and the Far East participated in the partisan movement.

      For the liberals, who killed more than thirty million people during "perestroika", this is certainly a hero! Forerunner of the Liberals
      1. Hort
        Hort 6 November 2013 11: 25
        +3
        oh, well then let's remember for objectivity how many red people dispossessed and shot. Yes, even in the same Siberia. And remember Tukhachevsky, who after the civil peasants poisoned with gases.
        more than six hundred thousand people
        not otherwise, Kolchak personally hung them, flogged them and shot them. Just like Stalin, who also personally ditched 10500 Muleins.

        There is no need to look for saints in a civil war, and vice versa, for demons. All were "good".
        1. washi
          washi 6 November 2013 16: 58
          +1
          Quote: hort
          oh, well then let's remember for objectivity how many red people dispossessed and shot. Yes, even in the same Siberia. And remember Tukhachevsky, who after the civil peasants poisoned with gases.
          more than six hundred thousand people
          not otherwise, Kolchak personally hung them, flogged them and shot them. Just like Stalin, who also personally ditched 10500 Muleins.
          There is no need to look for saints in a civil war, and vice versa, for demons. All were "good".

          Reds in Siberia did not mean anything. And there was no one to dispossess since all fists.
          Collective and state farms began to unite after the creation of the MTS. Efficiency has been shown.
          Kolchakites with the company (including the Cossacks) began to be fired after they began to confirm the orders of the European mongrel.
          Man - that sounds proud. Especially if a person with a weapon and he has something to protect.
          The Reds went through Siberia to the Far East calmly. They, unlike the nobles and the Cossacks, did not always try to serf the free inhabitants.
          In the Far East, the Reds had their problems because of the invaders (Americans and Yapis) and the Cossacks (purely loot that the invaders paid them).
          In general, a real Cossack should have nothing but weapons, but very much is needed for life. Therefore, I will sell to those who offer the amount.
          To whom these bastards just did not sell?
          1. Hort
            Hort 7 November 2013 07: 01
            0
            if we take the West Siberian Cossacks, then in their bulk, they generally occupied neutrality.
            As for the dispossession of kulaks, the middle peasants were also “dispossessed”. Two of my great-grandfathers were shot in the Kemerovo region, the third escaped with the confiscation of property in favor of the collective farm. They were not fists.
      2. Warrawar
        Warrawar 6 November 2013 14: 20
        +1
        Quote: Polar
        Yes, you definitely need to make a film about Kolchak, how he worked for English and Japanese intelligence

        Better make a film about comrade Lenin and how he worked for the German regional committee, along with his gang.
    2. tlauicol
      tlauicol 6 November 2013 10: 07
      +4
      for some reason no one wants to make a film about Kolchak’s investigation of the ministries of England, the USA and Japan after the October Revolution. And about his device for the English service? - into the furnace of Kolchak!
      1. Hort
        Hort 6 November 2013 11: 33
        +1
        well, about Lenin, I remember, they shot how he collaborated with German intelligence, and how the Bolsheviks received money from the American and British banks for the revolution. You look, and they’ll take off about Kolchak.

        Actually, I mentioned it about him, by the way. About him in a previous post, the person spoke. And the film would be really informative, as it came from the Arctic explorer and the talented naval commander to that role in which he remained in history.
        By the way, there is such a wonderful film "Moonsund" (I have not read the book), in it about Kolchak it was said in a similar vein.
      2. Bigriver
        Bigriver 6 November 2013 14: 50
        -2
        Quote: Tlauicol
        ... into the furnace of Kolchak!

        Siberia will "vote" for him.
        There, until now, in the villages, the dogs are given the name Kolchak.
  16. Stalin
    Stalin 6 November 2013 09: 32
    14
    Zadolbali these liberals. How long will this fecal mass be poured from TV screens every day? One big lie. Poor Russian brain: stupefied, stupid, swollen from lies from all the media. How long will there be a blatant lie about Stalin? All the cheap series on the central channels, at least in passing, but will lie about Stalin. When they make Russians think and compare facts. Stalin is a great man, one of the most talented politicians in the history of Russia, even Churchill emphasized his outstanding talent. Voting scam, as there is no Stalin. What are you afraid gentlemen liberals? And you’re doing it right, since you perfectly understand that Stalin will take at least 2-3 place, and objectively the first place. Stalin died a long time ago, and you are afraid of him as cholera, because if Stalin was alive now, you would replenish the gulags or be destroyed. BUT you can’t hide the truth, now almost on all Internet sites, Stalin wins any vote. The Russian people are not, they perfectly understand what kind of person they were, they read and find facts confirming their correctness. Hooray to comrade STALIN! YES HELLO COMRADE STALIN! Hurray, hooray, hooray!
    1. Igor39
      Igor39 6 November 2013 10: 22
      +7
      Joke: A new teacher comes to class:
      - My name is Abram Davidovich, I am a liberal. And now everybody get up in turn and introduce yourself as I do.
      - My name is Masha, I am a liberal.
      - My name is Styopa, I am a liberal.
      - I am Little Johnny, I'm a Stalinist.
      - Little Johnny, why are you a Stalinist ?!
      - My mother is Stalinist, my father is Stalinist, my friends are Stalinists, and I, too, are Stalinist.
      - Little Johnny, and if your mother were a prostitute, your dad was a drug addict, and your friends were pederasts, who would you be then?
      - Then I would be a liberal.
    2. Starfish
      Starfish 6 November 2013 10: 24
      +4
      "These liberals have gotten fed up. How long will this fecal mass pour from TV screens every day?"

      I do not like? and i don't like it. and nobody likes it.
      why then your idol guarantor will not cover this shop? for 13 years, your hands did not reach?
      1. I think so
        I think so 6 November 2013 19: 23
        +1
        He himself is one of those ...
  17. RUSS
    RUSS 6 November 2013 09: 33
    -13 qualifying.
    What military operations and strategic decisions did Stalin make? Where exactly is his commander talent visible? What did he personally do as a supreme military leader? What are the examples from the time of the Civil, Finnish and naturally WWII? As a strong leader of the country, perhaps, but as a military leader, the question is ...
    1. RUSS
      RUSS 6 November 2013 09: 53
      +1
      Cons went, but no one can answer so ...
      1. Gardamir
        Gardamir 6 November 2013 10: 13
        +3
        And what do you want to hear that Stalin is ahead on a dashing horse?
      2. paunch
        paunch 6 November 2013 10: 18
        -9
        because they cannot. current and "Urrrya!" they can scream.
        Well, what kind of commander is Stalin ?! Which Tsaritsyn?
        "Aksy" with Kamo still remember!
        1. Egoza
          Egoza 6 November 2013 12: 11
          +2
          Quote: paunch
          "Aksy" with Kamo still remember!

          Well, naturally, he and Kamo put everything in his pocket! laughing And the fact that this money was used to support the families of striking workers, the organization of newspapers, leaflets, transfer to prisons and links to revolutionaries .... is this all zilch?
          If you do not like Stalin, just write. You don't know well? Read the book "Generalissimo" by V. Karpov. Maybe you will find out what I.V. Stalin was a commander.
          1. paunch
            paunch 7 November 2013 09: 17
            0
            I believe that Stalin may or may not like. But he is NOT a commander for sure.
    2. Toporkoff
      Toporkoff 6 November 2013 10: 02
      +4
      What are some examples from Civil

      Tsaritsyn’s defense is the first operation ... dig further yourself, although you probably are not interested. Minusanul
    3. klimpopov
      klimpopov 6 November 2013 10: 04
      +7
      ALL large (and not only) WWII companies, ALL strategic decisions were made by Stalin, not Zhukov, not Rokosovsky, and not even Shaposhnikov, namely, Stalin. Again, the rate is Stalin.
      By the way, in this vein, the name of Ivan the Terrible did not bother you?)))
      personally did as a supreme military leader?

      He won the bloodiest war of mankind!
      Cons went, but no one can answer so ...

      It's only the beginning)))
      1. Bigriver
        Bigriver 6 November 2013 15: 08
        +2
        Quote: klimpopov
        ALL large (and not only) WWII companies, ALL strategic decisions were made by EXACTLY Stalin, not Zhukov not Rokosovsky and not even Shaposhnikov, namely Stalin.

        Somewhere after the 1st year of the war, in the Supreme Command Headquarters, campaign decisions appeared as a result of listening to the information of the General Staff, the views of the comforces and strata. directions. The rate discussed them, Stalin voiced. If there were objections, they returned to the study of the issue.
        Thus, there was no voluntarism. And the genius and providence of one figure - too. A competent TECHNOLOGY of planning and conducting war was organized.
        But at the initial stage of the war - this was not, yes. There was more mess, and less trust in the military and general staff.
        An interesting, by the way, trend. With the course of the war, the IVS more and more gave authority to places, and trusted the military.
        And in Germany it is the other way around. It got to the point that the "epileptic" began to command separate battalions laughing
    4. IRBIS
      IRBIS 6 November 2013 10: 51
      +5
      Quote: RUSS
      What are some examples from Civil

      Defense of Tsaritsyn. Pretty successful, by the way.
      Quote: RUSS
      What military operations and strategic decisions did Stalin make?

      To do this, it’s enough to carefully read the history of the Second World War. There, Stalin's strategic decisions are more than enough. The mere transfer of industrial enterprises is worth it.
      1. leon-iv
        leon-iv 6 November 2013 11: 09
        -1
        The mere transfer of industrial enterprises is worth it.

        the evacuation plan was not developed by him. Maybe Stalin had no co-education (technologist, logistician). Understand Stalin is a brilliant conductor but not a violinist or harper. His task was to have them all play together.
        1. T80UM1
          T80UM1 6 November 2013 12: 04
          +2
          Ustinov developed the plan, but how did he get into the people's commissariat? at 33 years old? Stalin spent a talented person
        2. washi
          washi 6 November 2013 17: 09
          0
          Quote: leon-iv
          The mere transfer of industrial enterprises is worth it.

          the evacuation plan was not developed by him. Maybe Stalin had no co-education (technologist, logistician). Understand Stalin is a brilliant conductor but not a violinist or harper. His task was to have them all play together.

          So the genius of the Conductor is that the orchestra plays.
          Who else could play at the strategic level besides him?
          Despite the losses ("thanks" to Zhukov, Pavlov, Kuznetsov all, Oktyabrsky)
          Present THANKS to Budyonny and Voroshilov. More Beria and Mehlis.
          1. I think so
            I think so 6 November 2013 19: 54
            -1
            Vasya

            You have such a mess in your head ... it is not surprising that others do not know ANYTHING either about the war or about who waged it and thanks to whom they defeated ... HORROR ...
            In order.
            1. I almost agree about Stalin's genius as a conductor, and this is confirmed by the documents, BUT! This brilliant conductor began to conduct more or less how, only after he became convinced of the complete failures of his plans for waging war in 41-42. It was after the FAILURE near Kiev and Kharkov (and the conductor was a STEADY adherent of this plan) that he FINALLY began to LISTEN to Vasilevsky and Zhukov. And only after THIS (the appointment of Zhukov as Deputy Supreme Commander-in-Chief) did the war FINALLY go on a victorious track ... So that Stalin in the first year of the war was not a "conductor", but was a DICTATOR, and it was after his STEADY decisions that grandiose defeats occurred. An example of border battles, it was Stalin who did not listen to Zhukov to transfer the main forces from the border to the level of Minsk and Mogilev even before the war. And the result is surrounded and only up to 800 thousand prisoners were taken! The defense of Kiev - it was Stalin who FORBIDDEN the withdrawal of the troops defending Kiev and only 622 thousand were taken prisoner. and Sevastopol, near Kharkov and lost ALL the Donbas and the Caucasus, the Germans reached Stalingrad.
            It was only after these HIS failures that he finally became that conductor about the claw you are talking about.

            Further, your THANKS and even in capital letters I perceive it as irony. If you seriously think so, then I can list the "merits" of Voroshilov, Budyonny, Mekhlis. I don’t know about Beria, he didn’t seem to lead the troops ...
            So, Voroshilov, August 41- the defense of Mogilev, he was there as a representative of the representative office precisely on his initiative launched a counterattack on Bobruisk while the entire front was already behind Vitebsk, and Mogilev was almost surrounded - the result was a counterattack. The tanks were completely destroyed, and the tanks without fuel themselves they blew it up, Mogilev lasted 3 weeks without covering from the left flank ... Voroshilov September 41 Defense of Leningrad ... well, here you can even refer to many famous films ... The city is getting ready to hand over enterprises ... until Zhukov arrived .. .
            Budenny Vyazma, Yelnya It was he who then commanded the Reserve Front along with Konev and Eremenko ... the result again Zhukov defended Moscow ... Thank God they did not trust Budenny to command anything ...
            Mekhlis ... The loss of Crimea that I have already mentioned ... It was he who, all the time "knocking" Stalin on the front command, achieved "active" actions in Crimea, after which Crimea was lost, Sevastopol fell, only about 100 thousand prisoners ...
    5. T80UM1
      T80UM1 6 November 2013 12: 03
      +5
      Incomplete list:
      Tsaritsyn - defeat of Krasnov
      Victory near Moscow 1941
      Industrialization
      Atomic bomb
      Operation Bagration
      Stalingrad 1942
      Economic victory in the cold war (without loans from the west, everyone restored and increased)
      Personnel victory (cheater sat, talented worked)
  18. Belogor
    Belogor 6 November 2013 09: 33
    +3
    I personally made my choice, which I also wish for you.
  19. Toporkoff
    Toporkoff 6 November 2013 09: 41
    +5
    Sorry, of course, but the contest is another liberal vyser. Again it is necessary to please both white and red and blue and green ... and so with a scandal ...
  20. Standard Oil
    Standard Oil 6 November 2013 09: 41
    +9
    I thought that they would immediately start comparing generals of different eras, well, let's compare Kutuzov and Rokossovsky, how would Mikhail Illarionovich cope with a tank army? For his 19th century, Kutuzov fulfilled his tasks, Napoleon, if he did not defeat, then at least did not merge army, he made a good peace with the Turks on time, in general, my grandfather knew his business. Rokossovsky also knew his business, he completed the task of defeating the Nazis, he brought Poland to order, how to compare them? Okay, Rokossovsky can be compared with Suvorov, because both had business with Poland. In short, they mixed vinigret, dumping everyone in a heap, they say, choose. Then you really have to choose commanders by epoch, then it's okay, but so. I don't know if Stalin is there, but then wait, the Supreme Commander-in-Chief had to solve thousands of problems a day + deal with the economy + domestic and foreign policy, to kick the military, all kinds of scientists, artists, poets, etc., etc., etc., etc. Let's compare with some favorite of the current government, for example, Kolchak, and what was good for the guy served the king, ki Zero it, became the "supreme ruler of Russia" on FRS dollars, rode in a comfortable trailer, blasted cocaine, tumbled with a woman, hanged peasants and Siberian workers, and how can you compare him with Stalin?
    1. Gato
      Gato 6 November 2013 11: 31
      +2
      Quote: Standard Oil
      In short, they mixed vinigret by dumping everyone into a pile, they say, choose.

      A completely modern approach request Simplify to idiocy, dump in a heap and build a rating from all this.
      1. lewerlin53rus
        lewerlin53rus 6 November 2013 12: 29
        +2
        Quote: Gato
        Simplify to idiocy, dump in a heap and build a rating from all this.

        Exactly. Like tests on the exam
  21. askort154
    askort154 6 November 2013 09: 48
    +5
    Another show, another beauty contest.
  22. RUSS
    RUSS 6 November 2013 09: 52
    +6
    Quote: 4952915
    With all due respect to the memory of G.K. Zhukov, we do not forget that he is not a commander, not an author of strategic plans, he is Deputy I.V. Stalin and representative of the Headquarters, i.e. a person watching over the execution of orders of the Supreme at the front.

    Zhukov "looking after"? fool fool I have never heard of such a thing ....
    1. 4952915
      4952915 6 November 2013 10: 21
      -2
      And you read the biography of Zhukov and look at his posts - you will probably be surprised, but you will know the history of the Great Patriotic War.
      1. tchack
        tchack 6 November 2013 11: 57
        +1
        Namely, 4952915, read the biography of Zhukov, only written not in Gorbachev’s times !!!
    2. T80UM1
      T80UM1 6 November 2013 12: 07
      0
      Specifically, the representative of the rate for coordinating the actions of the fronts: Stalingrad, Kursk, Operation Spark, Operation Bagration ...

      Where exactly he commanded: The defense of Moscow, the Rzhev defeat for only 42 years, the offensive in the right-bank Ukraine, Berlin, the free-oder operation, everything ...
      1. I think so
        I think so 6 November 2013 20: 41
        0
        Dear T80UM1.
        "representative of the rate for coordination of front actions"
        This meant THEN, that he commanded on the spot ALL FRONTS participating in carrying out the operations you listed correctly.
        I slightly disagree with the operations you listed, where he commanded military units up to and including the front level.
        So, let's start with Khalkhin Gol. The defeat of the Japs.
        Next is the defense of Leningrad. Leningrad Front. It was Zhukov who didn’t let the city pass.
        Defense of Moscow. He came from Leningrad already to the defenses deformed by the Germans near Vyazma, Yelnya where the fronts commanded by Konev, Budyonny, Eremenko were defeated. And even after that he was able to stop the Germans and carry out the FIRST STRATEGIC offensive operation in that war - the defeat of the Germans near Moscow.
        You attributed the defeat under Rzhev in no way to Zhukov. Further
        You mentioned "defeat 42 years". On this issue, the truth is that ALL these defeats (Crimea, Kharkov, Donbas, Caucasus, access to Stalingrad) are exactly on Stalin's conscience. Zhukov was CATEGORALLY against conducting "private offensive operations in 42". He believed that it was necessary to accumulate reserves and carry out ONE BIG operation. But Stalin did not listen to him and, having scattered reserves on the fronts, demanded from them "an offensive along the entire front." Result After the "offensive in the Crimea" the loss of Crimea and Sevastopol (here Mekhlis also helped "to activate" with his demands). After the attack on Kharkov, the loss of Donbass, Kuban and the exit of the Germans to the Volga. After an attempt to break through to Leningrad, Vlasov's army was surrounded and defeated, the blockade was not broken.
        Then you correctly led the command of the 1st Ukrainian Front during the battles for the right-bank and left-bank Ukraine.
        Berlin operation, commanded the 1st Belarusian Front. Wislooder i.e. the liberation of Poland.
        There was also an "operation" to liberate Bulgaria, but everything turned out peacefully there.
        As a result, it turns out that Zhukov commanded the fronts and GROUPS FRONTS in ALL THE MOST IMPORTANT STRATEGIC Battles of the Great Patriotic War!

        And you say everything ...
        Indeed, he almost did not lead the troops ...
  23. Black
    Black 6 November 2013 09: 56
    +9
    Instead of combat training, biathlon, instead of deep ideological work, a competition.
    FESTIVAL !!
  24. leon-iv
    leon-iv 6 November 2013 09: 59
    +8
    I think we need Yermolov Forsyth. But damn what does Trotsky and other Tukhlochev’s do there?
    1. Basileus
      Basileus 6 November 2013 10: 44
      +3
      By the way, with all these jokes about Kadyrov and Shamil, it is likely that Ermolov will be brought out at least ten.
      1. Revolver
        Revolver 6 November 2013 20: 40
        +1
        Quote: Basileus
        By the way, with all these jokes about Kadyrov and Shamil, it is likely that Ermolov will be brought out at least ten.
        And what do you think is unworthy? I personally think that in Grozny it is necessary to erect a monument to Yermolov. And also to Paskevich and Rokhlin. And most importantly, to Stalin.
        1. Basileus
          Basileus 7 November 2013 09: 17
          0
          I think that in his biography on the site, Caucasian merits were modestly silent. And where did I say that I’m not worthy? Although in the Patriotic War, of which he most likely acts as a representative, there are many worthy applicants. It's all stupid - to choose the top ten.
  25. Peaceful military
    Peaceful military 6 November 2013 10: 05
    +6
    Again, a liberal attempt to cross a hedgehog and a snake. Well, how can the "glorious" figures of the Civil War be heroes, especially from the white side, who happily drank the blood of their beloved people? Otherwise, the Reds would not have won.
    There must be a pantheon of heroes, but of those heroes to whom there are no serious, objective claims.
    1. leon-iv
      leon-iv 6 November 2013 10: 33
      +8
      And how can Trotsky be the heroes of his life? And did the Tukhlochevsky peasants poison gas?
      For example, the same kolchak is an outstanding hydrologist, but he is judged by the snotty series.
      1. Peaceful military
        Peaceful military 6 November 2013 10: 54
        +2
        Quote: leon-iv
        And how can Trotsky be the heroes of his life? And did the Tukhlochevsky peasants poison gas?
        For example, the same kolchak is an outstanding hydrologist, but he is judged by the snotty series.

        Of course not. One campaign by Tukhachevsky to Poland, which costs ... Trotsky ... I have no words.
        Kolchak's outstanding merits are greatly exaggerated (they were raised to the shield by the liberals) and were crossed out by his "exploits" from the February Revolution and until his surrender by the White Czechs.
        1. Hort
          Hort 6 November 2013 11: 41
          +2
          Well, how to look. Almost all of the Soviet Arctic exploration is a continuation of the work begun before the revolution, incl. and Kolchak.
          But with the fact that Kolchak crossed out his achievements with his own activity in the Civil, I agree.
          1. lewerlin53rus
            lewerlin53rus 6 November 2013 12: 33
            +2
            Arctic research has nothing to do with military talent
            1. vlad0
              vlad0 6 November 2013 12: 45
              0
              And the Arctic began to actively develop in the 30s.
              1. Hort
                Hort 6 November 2013 13: 55
                +1
                That's right, before that it was clearly not up to her. But the foundations of development were laid back under the king
      2. Turkestan
        Turkestan 6 November 2013 19: 41
        0
        AS INFORMATION From the documentary evidence - extract from the order of the Governor of the Yenisei and part of the Irkutsk province, General S. N. Rozanov, Special Commissioner Kolchak in the city of Krasnoyarsk) of March 27, 1919:
        The chiefs of military units operating in the area of ​​the uprising:
        1. When occupying villages captured earlier by robbers, demand the extradition of their leaders and leaders; if this does not happen, but reliable information about the availability of such information is available, shoot the tenth.
        2. The villages, the population of which will meet government troops with weapons, burn; adult male population to shoot without exception; property, horses, carts, bread, and so on, selected in favor of the treasury.
        Note. Everything selected must be carried out by order of the detachment ...
        6. Among the population to take hostages, in case of action of fellow villagers directed against government troops, shoot hostages mercilessly.
        Political leaders of the Czechoslovak corps B. Paul and V. Girs in an official memorandum to the Allies in November 1919 stated:

        Under the protection of Czechoslovak bayonets, the local Russian military authorities allow themselves actions that are horrified by the entire civilized world. The burning of villages, the beating of peaceful Russian citizens by hundreds, the shooting of representatives of democracy without trial on a simple suspicion of political unreliability is a common occurrence, and the responsibility for everything before the court of the peoples of the whole world lies with us: why, having military force, did not oppose this lawlessness.


        In Yekaterinburg province, one of the 12 provinces controlled by Kolchak, at least 25 thousand people were exterminated under Kolchak, and about 10% of the two million people were outraged. Flogged both men and women and children.
        The merciless attitude of Kolchak's punishers towards the workers and peasants provoked mass uprisings. As A.Lytvyn notes about Kolchak’s regime, “it’s difficult to talk about supporting his policy in Siberia and the Urals, if out of about 400 thousand red partisans of that time 150 thousand acted against him, and among them 4-5% were prosperous peasants, or, as they were then called, kulaks. ”
      3. Turkestan
        Turkestan 6 November 2013 19: 48
        0
        And these guys as can be HEROES A few quotes.
        White General Kornilov: "We went to power to hang, but we had to hang to come to power."
        American General Graves: “In Eastern Siberia, for every person killed by the Bolsheviks, there were a hundred people killed by anti-Bolshevik elements.”
        US officers Sayers and Kahn: "Hundreds of Russians who dared not submit to the new dictator (Kolchak) hung on trees and telegraph poles along the Siberian Railway."
        Russian writer William, who fought in the Denikin army: “In the middle of the village they dug a pole, tied it (the Red Army) higher; They wrapped a rope around the skull, stuck a stake through the rope and - a circular motion! At the end, the soldiers refused to turn, gentlemen, the officers took up. And suddenly we hear: crack! - the skull box shook ... An instructive sight. "
        Yeah, the sight is really instructive. Especially for those who listen with tenderness to songs about the noble lieutenants of the Golitsins and the Cornets of Obolensk. Please note: the soldiers could not stand it, refused, and these, "their nobility", gladly brought the torture to a spectacular ending. An instructive spectacle for Denikin’s current admirers, under whose leadership atrocities were committed in Novorossiysk, both in the dungeons of Denikin’s counterintelligence and right on the streets.
    2. Gato
      Gato 6 November 2013 12: 09
      +1
      Quote: Peaceful military
      but of those heroes for whom there are no serious, objective claims.

      This does not happen. Claims will be to any hero.
      For example:
      - A.V. Suvorov "politically incorrect" suppressed the uprising of Polish democrats lol, and generally preferred to fight outside of Russia.
      - Alexander Nevsky had suspiciously friendly (even kindred) relations with the Golden Horde.
      - G.K. Zhukov (NSH in 1941) - according to the certification of K.K.Rokossovsky "I am not capable of staff and teaching work, since he organically hates them."
      - MI Kutuzov - claims to him began to be voiced back in 1812. , namely: "I surrendered Moscow, I did not want to save Europe and go to Paris, I let Napoleon go to Europe"

      And there are so many claims to J.V. Stalin that he was not even included in the lists. By the way, this speaks more than eloquently about the goals of this "competition"
      1. Peaceful military
        Peaceful military 6 November 2013 12: 19
        +1
        Quote: Gato
        Quote: Peaceful military
        but of those heroes for whom there are no serious, objective claims.

        This does not happen. Claims will be to any hero.
        For example:
        - A.V. Suvorov "politically incorrect" suppressed the uprising of Polish democrats lol, and generally preferred to fight outside of Russia.
        - Alexander Nevsky had suspiciously friendly (even kindred) relations with the Golden Horde.
        - G.K. Zhukov (NSH in 1941) - according to the certification of K.K.Rokossovsky "I am not capable of staff and teaching work, since he organically hates them."
        - MI Kutuzov - claims to him began to be voiced back in 1812. , namely: "I surrendered Moscow, I did not want to save Europe and go to Paris, I let Napoleon go to Europe"

        And there are so many claims to J.V. Stalin that he was not even included in the lists. By the way, this speaks more than eloquently about the goals of this "competition"

        No, well, you can bring anything to idiocy, that's why I said
        serious, objective claims
        .
      2. Mirotvorez13
        Mirotvorez13 6 November 2013 13: 00
        +1
        Why scoop up the past, these were the heroes of their time .. And by the way, everyone forgot about the outstanding commander M. Skobelev.
        1. Peaceful military
          Peaceful military 6 November 2013 13: 44
          +2
          Quote: Mirotvorez13
          Why scoop up the past, these were the heroes of their time .. And by the way, everyone forgot about the outstanding commander M. Skobelev.

          Well, why are you like this? I didn’t forget, the people who voted for him in the contest under discussion did not forget. This is no longer your categorical
          all
          . hi
      3. washi
        washi 6 November 2013 17: 18
        0
        Quote: Gato
        Quote: Peaceful military
        but of those heroes for whom there are no serious, objective claims.

        This does not happen. Claims will be to any hero.
        For example:
        - A.V. Suvorov "politically incorrect" suppressed the uprising of Polish democrats lol, and generally preferred to fight outside of Russia.
        - Alexander Nevsky had suspiciously friendly (even kindred) relations with the Golden Horde.
        - G.K. Zhukov (NSH in 1941) - according to the certification of K.K.Rokossovsky "I am not capable of staff and teaching work, since he organically hates them."
        - MI Kutuzov - claims to him began to be voiced back in 1812. , namely: "I surrendered Moscow, I did not want to save Europe and go to Paris, I let Napoleon go to Europe"
        And there are so many claims to J.V. Stalin that he was not even included in the lists. By the way, this speaks more than eloquently about the goals of this "competition"

        I already wrote above: accomplishing tasks, saving troops and people. That is the assessment of the commander.
  26. sdv68
    sdv68 6 November 2013 10: 15
    +5
    It is immediately clear that they are afraid of Stalin. That is why he was not included in the list. In the "Name of Russia" contest they just got tired of resetting the counter for him.
    1. leon-iv
      leon-iv 6 November 2013 10: 19
      0
      Well, Stalin is not a commander. From the same leader of the country. He had many worthy commanders whom you can entrust the management of the army.
      1. Gato
        Gato 6 November 2013 12: 25
        +2
        Quote: leon-iv
        Well, Stalin is not a commander. From the same leader of the country.

        hi
        The leader of a country that is waging a war for survival simply cannot but be a commander, especially if he is formally the Supreme Civil Code.
        In addition, there is a huge amount of evidence that Stalin made not only strategic, but sometimes even tactical decisions, considered and approved plans of operations at the front level and below.
        If this is not the work of a commander - then what?
  27. ReifA
    ReifA 6 November 2013 10: 16
    +2
    Such contests are best ignored. By participating in them you give money xs to whom, xs why, but what about the exhaust?
    1. Warrawar
      Warrawar 6 November 2013 14: 24
      0
      Quote: ReifA
      Such contests are best ignored. By participating in them you give money xs to whom, xs why, but what about the exhaust?

      And he is free.
  28. Internal combustion engine
    Internal combustion engine 6 November 2013 10: 18
    +4
    It seems that it is necessary to vote for Kolchak. He killed many Russian people. That is, he was engaged in exactly what the current rulers are doing — they are clearing the area of ​​Northeast Eurasia rich in natural resources from the indigenous contingent. They joked like that: English uniform, Russian epaulet, Japanese tobacco, Omsk ruler. Well, exactly the same about the current. Uniform from Trusardi, watches from Roliks, socks from the French, cars from the Germans, etc. well and the like.
    1. Gato
      Gato 6 November 2013 11: 39
      +3
      Quote: ICE
      They joked like that: English uniform, Russian epaulet, Japanese tobacco, Omsk ruler.

      There is still a continuation:
      "The uniform was worn down,
      Epaulet fell
      Tobacco smoked,
      The ruler has washed away "
      Well, exactly the same about the current. Tunic's Tunic ...


      I had such a thick "Collection of Civil War Songs" in my childhood. So it's from there.
    2. creak
      creak 6 November 2013 15: 41
      0
      What kind of computer do you have? Is it really Russian?
      1. Gato
        Gato 6 November 2013 22: 51
        +1
        Quote: ranger
        What kind of computer do you have? Is it really Russian?

        No, the same as you - Chinese.
  29. Stalin
    Stalin 6 November 2013 10: 22
    10
    Quote: sdv68
    It is immediately clear that they are afraid of Stalin. That is why he was not included in the list. In the "Name of Russia" contest they just got tired of resetting the counter for him.


    Everything is simple. This is to be expected, since Stalin is an IDEOLOGY. The ideology of power, power and prosperity, and liberals from these words alone are furious, snot and drool fly ...
  30. Gardamir
    Gardamir 6 November 2013 10: 28
    +4
    http://www.nameofvictory.ru/ заходите и голосуйте. Даже наши современники, нынешние губернаторы и министры есть. Но лично моё мнение уважьте Кадырова, из 10 человек обязательно выберите Ермолова, тем более генерал не только на Кавказе воевал.
    1. leon-iv
      leon-iv 6 November 2013 10: 37
      +3
      Already voted for Yermolov.
    2. ed65b
      ed65b 6 November 2013 11: 17
      +1
      Quote: Gardamir
      http://www.nameofvictory.ru/ заходите и голосуйте. Даже наши современники, нынешние губернаторы и министры есть. Но лично моё мнение уважьте Кадырова, из 10 человек обязательно выберите Ермолова, тем более генерал не только на Кавказе воевал.

      Already respected.
  31. Basileus
    Basileus 6 November 2013 10: 44
    +3
    Here we argue, and VGTRK opened a gold mine, and now every six months it will hold all sorts of competitions for names, flags, signs, totems and other symbols.
  32. Ivan_Ivanov
    Ivan_Ivanov 6 November 2013 10: 44
    15
    .
    in the first place should be a simple Russian soldier.
    .


    1. Revolver
      Revolver 6 November 2013 11: 12
      +9
      Quote: Ivan_Ivanov
      in the first place should be a simple Russian soldier.
      As the Maestro said in the movie "Only Old Men Go to Battle", "Private infantry Vanya. Yes, and rightfully so."
  33. Net
    Net 6 November 2013 10: 44
    +9
    It is unlikely that any of us need a rating among such names. It would be better if they made the rating of ANTIheroes of Russia. From then they would understand our attitude to these Leibs Bronstein, Humpbacked Judas, Red, Gaidar, Yakovlev, Alkash. Everyone needs to be mentioned. I know they love to talk about such people, they say about the dead either good or nothing. So these citizens, bashfully silent about their affairs, forget the full quote from the ancient Greek sage Chilon (VI century BC)
    "De mortuis aut bene, aut nihil" (About the dead or good, or nothing).
    "De mortuis aut bene, aut male" (About the dead, either good or bad).
    "De mortuis - veritas!" (Of the dead - the truth!).
    1. Ivan_Ivanov
      Ivan_Ivanov 6 November 2013 10: 51
      +3
      It would be better if they made the rating of ANTIheroes of Russia.

      Great idea!
      But I'm afraid the participation of liberal provocateurs in this can make a significant contribution to the split in our society.
  34. Rinat 1
    Rinat 1 6 November 2013 11: 03
    0
    An incomprehensible contest on how to compare people who lived in different eras and times. A. I.V. Stalin really did a lot of good and bad for the country. Personally, my choice of beetles. Great commander that would not talk about him
    1. T80UM1
      T80UM1 6 November 2013 12: 26
      +1
      Rokosovsky, Bagration, Zhukov, I voted.
  35. Cormorants
    Cormorants 6 November 2013 11: 04
    +3
    "We have no division into ours and ours, into reds or whites. Kolchak, and Frunze, and Kappel, and Denikin are together. The main criterion is that they all loved Russia, they all wished her well, just everyone saw it differently."
    I saw it in different ways, behind this word are thousands of human lives.
  36. ed65b
    ed65b 6 November 2013 11: 05
    +7
    Where is the conqueror of the Caucasus, General Ermolov? Ramzan’s coal on the ass.
    1. Gardamir
      Gardamir 6 November 2013 11: 16
      +4
      Vote for Ermolov http://www.nameofvictory.ru/
    2. Dazdranagon
      Dazdranagon 6 November 2013 11: 20
      +2
      Ermolov is! hi
    3. Revolver
      Revolver 6 November 2013 20: 10
      0
      Quote: ed65b
      Where is the conqueror of the Caucasus, General Ermolov? Ramzan’s coal on the ass.

      And Paskevich, who was also not badly noted in the Caucasus. Both are on the list, voted for both.
  37. Revolver
    Revolver 6 November 2013 11: 06
    -1
    There is no Stalin. There is no Malinovsky. Shaposhnikov, the only one to whom Stalin himself addressed exclusively by name and patronymic, no. Rokhlin, the only general who did not cover the shoulder straps with shame in the Chechen war, is not. But - the butcher Zhukov, political gain Trotsky, war criminal (gases against the civilian population of his country !!!) Tukhachevsky, drunk Blucher. Still Vlasov from ROA stuck in the list for the kit - also of the type he fought under the tricolor.
    I wonder who and by what criteria made the list?
    1. Ivan_Ivanov
      Ivan_Ivanov 6 November 2013 11: 15
      +2
      Zhukov the butcher. This is the result of liberal propaganda to desecrate our values, our history, our victories. The same as "Stalin the Bloodsucker".
    2. T80UM1
      T80UM1 6 November 2013 12: 27
      +1
      Rokosovsky, Stalin also addressed him by the name of Patronymic, Rokosovsky did not betray Stalin, unlike Zhukov ...
  38. ed65b
    ed65b 6 November 2013 11: 08
    0
    Nagan, announce your list.
    1. Revolver
      Revolver 6 November 2013 11: 23
      +7
      Quote: ed65b
      Nagan, announce your list.

      Suvorov Alexander Vasilyevich
      Rokossovsky Konstantin Konstantinovich
      Baghramyan Ivan Khristoforovich
      Konev Ivan Stepanovich
      Rumyantsev Petr Alexandrovich
      Ermolov Alexey Petrovich
      Paskevich Ivan Fedorovich
      Brusilov Alexey Alekseevich
      Vasilevsky Alexander Mikhailovich
      Skobelev Mikhail Dmitrievich

      In general, he would put Stalin above them all. Well, maybe, except for Suvorov - on the same level with him, both generalissimo, of whom there were not very many in Russia, but what's there - in world history.
      1. washi
        washi 6 November 2013 17: 23
        +1
        I would remove Konev
        Would add Frunze.
      2. I think so
        I think so 6 November 2013 21: 23
        +1
        Here is the clearest example of the result of the actions of enemy propaganda according to Brzezinski. We will replace their heroes with ours, we will replace their ideals with ours, etc.
        Let me explain in more detail. Now there is an attack on the history of Russia and in particular on the Second World War. Why is she coming? Simply because it is the ONLY thing that unites the peoples of the former USSR. And the Jewish gang needs to uproot this only from the consciousness and memory, if not of the older generation, then certainly of the youth. And now let's admire the result. I can say with a XNUMX% guarantee that the esteemed "Nagan" is very young and now there are results. NOBODY EVER gave him RELIABLE information about the Second World War, but a heap of slops poured on his head on those people who REALLY led the armed struggle during the Second World War. And since the Second World War is NOT IN ANY comparison with ANY war that Russia has suffered both in terms of the number of victims and the size of the attacking side, then it and its results SHOULD OVERHEAD everything else. BUT since the Jewish world gang decided to act according to Brzezinski, then the Second World War is belittled everywhere. They would ANYWHERE her, but YET they can't - the veterans have a fresh memory, so they spread to the GREAT MARSHALS OF VICTORY and in every possible way de-discriminate them. Now, apart from Stalin (the bloody dictator), Zhukov (the butcher) fell, Vasilevsky goes after Konev (the front, which was defeated near Moscow). Some Rumyantsevs, who did not fight at all, are also higher than VASILEVSKY. Brusilov - the breakthrough of the German frogt, which ended in almost the death of his army, is also higher ... A crooked mirror - yes! And the brain of this Nagant (if any) is ALREADY INSURED! And what will happen in a couple of generations ... horror. Thank God that the veterans will not live to see the shame when the likes of Nagant will cheat on the merits in the victory of Stalin, Zhukov, Vasilevsky in the Second World War. It was under the leadership of these THREE generals that the Red Army defeated the fascists, and in general ALL WESTERN EUROPE.
        I'm just depressing. Well, is it really difficult to read memoirs not of FASHIET beaten generals or local suvorovs writing nonsense sucked from a finger, but OWN Victory Marshals.
        GK Zhukov "Memories and Reflections".
        ANVasilevsky "The Work of All Life".
        and other generals. All these books were written AFTER Stalin's death in the 70s, and yet they ALL HIGHLY value Stalin’s merits in VICTORY.
        There, between the lines, you can understand a lot, but alas, for this you need to turn on the brain ... and if it is not ... and if you are reluctant ... why did I need to explain everything to Suvorov ...
        Russia has ALWAYS been famous for its NEVER BATTLE on the battlefield, but ALWAYS won in the REWRITING of history.
        So it was with Ivan the Terrible and the whole of Doromanov (Doneman) Russian history.
        So it was with the Tatar-Mongol yoke ...
        So it will be with THIS GREAT WAR ...
        Former heroes from the other world will curse you, since you cannot appreciate YOUR heroes and THINK YOUR HEAD ...
        1. Revolver
          Revolver 6 November 2013 22: 33
          +2
          Quote: I think so
          Here is the brightest example. We will replace their heroes with ours

          Take a look at my list above. Which of these, I'm not afraid of this word - GREAT commanders - "the result of enemy propaganda according to Brzezinski"? Specifically, the name and justification? The absence of such is the recognition of the fact that you are a cheap balabol and are not responsible for the market.
          Quote: I think so
          I can say with a XNUMX% guarantee that the respected "Nagan" is very young
          Have you seen my profile? I have seen. And with all responsibility I can declare on this occasion: "I congratulate you, citizen, you have lied" © M. Bulgakov, "The Master and Margarita".
          Quote: I think so
          when the likes of Nagan will be honoring merit in the victory in the Great Patriotic War
          Read my post carefully. I openly stated that Stalin had a place on the top of the list. Congratulations, citizen, back to the lies.
          Quote: I think so
          BUT since the Jewish world gang cut to act according to Brzezinski
          Well, it came to the Jews again. Especially in this context, together with
          Brzezinski. Do you even know that Brzezinski is an ardent anti-Semite, as, however, are many Poles, especially nobles? Obviously you don’t know, but you write there too.
          Quote: I think so
          Vasilevsky goes after Konev (the front, which was defeated near Moscow)
          and who cut off Berlin with an elegant roundabout maneuver, while Zhukov drove wave after wave of soldiers through minefields and obstacles onto machine guns, trying to take the Zeelovsky heights stupidly in the forehead. However, as near Rzhev, as elsewhere where Zhukov noted. But in general - I can’t say which of the marshals of the Great Victory is higher, they all deserve a place immediately under the top line, which, by law and justice, belongs to the Supreme Commander.
          Quote: I think so
          Brusilov - a breakthrough of the German Frogt, which ended in almost the death of his army is also higher
          Moreover, as a result of the Brusilovsky Breakthrough, the Austro-Hungarian Empire ceased to exist as an independent military force, the unbroken remnants of the Austrian forces came under German control. Even if we assume that Brusilov laid down his army (which, at least, is debatable), then the army for the empire is quite an adequate exchange.
          Quote: I think so
          to do this, turn on the brain ... and if it is not ... and if you are reluctant ...
          How long have you been looking in the mirror for the last time? So the last quote is about you. Somehow you do not correspond to your nickname, because you write clearly on emotions without thinking.
        2. Denis Davydov
          Denis Davydov April 13 2014 17: 53
          0
          I mostly agree with this author and add: -
          You are all who argue so hotly about who to call the Name of VICTORY. Listen at least to how ridiculous my first sentence sounds.
          And think about how you are being bred: - THE WORDS ARE SPEAKING ABOUT VICTORY in the Great Patriotic War of 1945, but they suggest that you, monkeys, choose from the list of all national Heroes from the time of the king of peas!
          Really, no one, never once aroused suspicions, doubts about the idiocy of what is happening, WHERE THE SAME FROM THE MINISTRY OF CULTURE, AND THE MILITARY-HISTORICAL SOCIETY DRAW YOU?
          It says only one thing that you have no brains at all.
  39. The comment was deleted.
  40. Stalin
    Stalin 6 November 2013 11: 16
    0
    Quote: Starfish
    "These liberals have gotten fed up. How long will this fecal mass pour from TV screens every day?"

    I do not like? and i don't like it. and nobody likes it.
    why then your idol guarantor will not cover this shop? for 13 years, your hands did not reach?


    Do you personally know the rules of the game? Or do you think that you can cover the shop like this simply by waking up in the morning and scratching your turnips. And who does not need to find out the owner of this shop? And the fact that after losing in the Cold War, Russia as the losing side turned into the usual? And the one who opened this shop and will allow a certain Putin in the status of a vassal to cover the shops of the occupier? Understand the terms first ...
    1. Starfish
      Starfish 6 November 2013 11: 30
      -1
      "will allow a certain Putin in the status of a vassal to cover the shops of the occupier"

      so a guarantor in your vassal status in your opinion? and who occupied us? where are the invaders Sorry of course, but it seems to me that you have porridge in your head.
      and listen to the deputies of the United Russia party less, like Fedorov, a fighter against the occupation. if everything he says were true, his mouth would have been quietly shut for a long time. they can do it. and even less would he be sitting in a warm deputy chair from "United Russia".
      1. washi
        washi 6 November 2013 17: 36
        -1
        Quote: Starfish
        "will allow a certain Putin in the status of a vassal to cover the shops of the occupier"

        so a guarantor in your vassal status in your opinion? and who occupied us? where are the invaders Sorry of course, but it seems to me that you have porridge in your head.
        and listen to the deputies of the United Russia party less, like Fedorov, a fighter against the occupation. if everything he says were true, his mouth would have been quietly shut for a long time. they can do it. and even less would he be sitting in a warm deputy chair from "United Russia".

        Ah, you are young and very stupid and have not seen big s. ..P.
        Moral: You will listen to each bastard - you will not eat anything.
        Well, we don’t have a king and a god. Compare at your level. You can manage fully, according to your desire and desire YOUR family?
        I can not. Separate finances - well, you can hitch there. But create an official harem. Here are still lovers back and forth. And lovers want everything at once. And basically money.
  41. The comment was deleted.
    1. T80UM1
      T80UM1 6 November 2013 12: 30
      0
      I voted for him, put in second place
  42. FRITZ LANG
    FRITZ LANG 6 November 2013 11: 16
    0
    And I have a question: is Prince Bagration present or is he politically incorrect too?
    1. Anatole Klim
      Anatole Klim 6 November 2013 11: 29
      +1
      General Bagration P.I. present.http: //www.nameofvictory.ru
      1. FRITZ LANG
        FRITZ LANG 6 November 2013 11: 37
        0
        Thanks for the answer
  43. Stalin
    Stalin 6 November 2013 11: 16
    0
    Quote: Starfish
    "These liberals have gotten fed up. How long will this fecal mass pour from TV screens every day?"

    I do not like? and i don't like it. and nobody likes it.
    why then your idol guarantor will not cover this shop? for 13 years, your hands did not reach?


    Do you personally know the rules of the game? Or do you think that you can cover the shop like this simply by waking up in the morning and scratching your turnips. And who does not need to find out the owner of this shop? And the fact that after losing in the Cold War, Russia as a losing side turned into an ordinary colony? And the one who opened this shop and will allow a certain Putin in the status of a vassal to cover the shops of the occupier? Understand the terms first ...
  44. Svyatoslavovich
    Svyatoslavovich 6 November 2013 11: 19
    +1
    These contests were lifted up, the sole purpose of these events was not to establish public opinion, not to determine worthy historical figures, but to EARN a BABLE, speculate on a topic of interest to people. Previous options about a character, etc. This is clearly shown. Do not get dirty involved in this profonation.
  45. Stalin
    Stalin 6 November 2013 11: 23
    0
    If you argue at the level of the layman, then you can wake up tomorrow, shoot all the liberals, make earthly paradise in Russia. Not so simple. First you need to become a sovereign state, and this is a long struggle. Look at the history of how many years it took for traditional colonies to gain sovereignty. Find at least somewhere 13 years. Clarity will come to people only when they finally understand, in 91 we became a COLONY and for more than 10 years Putin has been fighting for sovereignty. Let it slowly and with a creak, but it moves forward. May God grant him good luck in this war. And we, as the people of Russia, must support him in this fight for Russia's freedom from the American yoke.
    1. Ivan_Ivanov
      Ivan_Ivanov 6 November 2013 11: 31
      0
      I'm afraid few people on this site will understand you and will be in solidarity with you.

      Our country became a colony in 1917 as well. It took Stalin 20 years to regain sovereignty and cleanse power from agents of the West. And then, as history has shown, even he failed to do this to the end.
  46. NIKOLAI T
    NIKOLAI T 6 November 2013 11: 40
    +7
    Without Stalin, the contest looks stupid and pathetic.
  47. avg
    avg 6 November 2013 11: 56
    +5
    Of course A.V. Suvorov. This is the true "Name of Victory" all over the world. This is not only a great commander, but also a teacher who brought up a whole galaxy of Russian generals. Brave, smart, valiant Warrior, whom you always want to be equal to.
    And now less pathetic, but also from the heart:
    - I also want to please the Poles. wink
    1. Revolver
      Revolver 6 November 2013 19: 45
      +1
      Quote: avg
      And I want to please the Poles.
      For example, Rokossovsky? The fact that now in power in Poland there are persons who do not have a very adequate attitude to Russia does not mean that all Poles are [filtered out]. Whether you like it or not, history and geography have assigned Poland to Russia as a neighbor, and nothing can be done about it. But it depends on people, and in particular on you personally, whether the relationship will be characterized by the capacious word "cp", or is it somehow different.
  48. tchack
    tchack 6 November 2013 11: 59
    +6
    I did not understand what Tukhachevsky is doing on the list ???
    1. Ivan_Ivanov
      Ivan_Ivanov 6 November 2013 12: 12
      0
      Well, someone should be in last place ...
    2. Egoza
      Egoza 6 November 2013 12: 22
      +1
      Quote: tchack
      I did not understand what Tukhachevsky is doing on the list?

      And his views are very suitable for current European integrators. Apparently, that's why they turned it on.
      1. avg
        avg 6 November 2013 12: 38
        +1
        And his views are very suitable for current European integrators. Apparently, that's why they turned it on.

        Perhaps Trotsky is still more suitable for them:
        "No peace, no war, but disband the army."
  49. kosopooz77
    kosopooz77 6 November 2013 12: 11
    +3
    The greatest war in the history of mankind was fought by Stalin, and these are not my words, as all veterans of that war with whom I had the honor to speak say so. And the absence of his name on the list once again (as with a failed de-Stalinization) confirms that our pro-government thieves are afraid Stalin's even dead
  50. sdv68
    sdv68 6 November 2013 12: 17
    +3
    Quote: leon-iv
    Well, Stalin is not a commander. From the same leader of the country. He had many worthy commanders whom you can entrust the management of the army.


    He is like the top captain of an army that defeated Germany. And, since liberals blame him for the defeat of 41-42 years, why is it separated from the victories of 43-45 years?
    1. Snoop
      Snoop 6 November 2013 13: 35
      +1
      Liberals - the logic? no, have not heard)))))))))))