Military Review

October war 1973 year

139
History knows many examples of how unwillingness to compromise, recklessness and political deafness led the opposing sides to bloody tragedies, shameful spots falling on the perpetrators of the collision. As a vivid example of such behavior is the tragedy of October 6 of 1973, the day when the conflict between two Middle Eastern states that had been brewing for many years turned into an open military confrontation. It was on this day forty years ago on the Jewish holiday of Yom Kippur that the Egyptian armed forces, together with the Syrian military, suddenly attacked a relaxed Israel. This clash lasted eighteen days and was the fourth large-scale Arab-Israeli conflict, known as the “Doomsday War”.


October war 1973 year


The initiator of the military offensive on the territory of Israel became two states of the Middle East: Egypt and Syria. Diplomats of these countries repeatedly tried to negotiate with the Israeli authorities on the return of lands seized back in 1967. However, Israel categorically rejected the proposals received from neighbors, forcing the Arabs to go to extreme measures and sign the so-called “rule of three“ no ”, which implies the refusal of negotiations, recognition and peace with the Jewish state. This marked the beginning of a sluggish political conflict, which in history remained under the title “war of attrition”. The return of the lands taken away once turned for the Arabs into a matter of principle, a belated desire to wash off the dishonor obtained in the previous “Six-Day War”.

Having won a fairly quick and convincing victory in the war of 1967, Israel was absolutely sure that the Arabs, who, in their opinion, were not able to fight properly, would not dare attack them in the coming decades. Along the Suez Canal, the Israelis erected powerful fortifications called the “Bar-Lev Line (on behalf of their developer, General Chaim Bar-Lev). They consisted of several defense lines thirty to fifty kilometers deep. The first lane passed along the Suez Canal and included a twenty-meter high anti-tank rampart (about one hundred and sixty kilometers long) with platoon strong points equipped on the ridge. Each platoon of foot soldiers supported tank platoon. Pipelines were located inside the shaft to ensure oil flow into the channel. In a critical situation, it was supposed to be released and set on fire. Between the defense lines there was a road patrolled by groups of tanks and motorized infantry. The road was intended to transfer the battery of self-propelled guns to the threatened area. The second line was based on company strongholds, which, according to calculations, were able to hold autonomously for more than five days. And finally, thirty kilometers from the canal, three armored brigades stood in reserve. The construction of the “Bar-Lev Line” cost Israel three hundred million dollars. On the Golan Heights (Syrian front) a seventy-five kilometer defensive line was also erected. The base was composed of strong points located at heights, which included tanks dug into the ground (about twelve units per kilometer of the front). There was also a canal at the heights - a ditch six meters wide and four meters deep. In both the Syrian and Suez sectors, the Israelis were preparing for a defensive war, and the success of motorized units in previous battles on the peninsula led their commanders to reassess the importance of tanks and underestimate infantry and artillery. For these errors had to pay with blood.

The desire of Egypt, born back in 1967, to return the Sinai Peninsula and the Golan Heights occupied by its neighbor and restore its territorial integrity, became of paramount importance after 1970 came to power in Egypt in the fall of President Gamal Abdel Nasser’s death in Egypt after the death of President Gamal Abdel Nasser. Taking into account the mistakes made, the Egyptians did a great job of building up and strengthening their combat power, as well as developing a new military strategy. Preparations for the future performance were begun by the Arabs eager for revenge back in 1971, when special training centers were built near Alexandria and Cairo, “pieces of the Bar-Lev line”, in which the mobilized Egyptian armed forces worked out practical skills in fighting forcing a channel and overcoming heights in hilly terrain.



The number of demining units increased in the Egyptian armed forces. Particular attention was paid to the delivery of equipment to the bridgehead - to pull in and lower heavy machines from the shaft is slow and not the most pleasant. In addition, the Egyptians decided to use an off-the-shelf approach to solving the problem of moving heavy equipment through sandy shafts that came across. During the summer of the 1973 of the year in the Federal Republic of Germany and England, they purchased about one hundred and sixty water cannons - water cannons. The idea was simple and ingenious: instead of overcoming an obstacle through the top, it was decided with the help of water cannons to blur the passages in loose sandy shafts.

The next step was to bring another dissatisfied neighbor, Syria, into the attack on the offenders. In order to divert the attention and strength of the Israelis, she had to start hostilities from the Golan Heights, and Israel’s waging of war in two directions at once allowed to significantly increase the chances of the Egyptians to win. According to some sources, an additional impetus to the entry into the war of this Arab state was an Israeli attack. aviation to the Syrian MIGs on September 13, 1973. An air clash in which twelve Syrian aircraft were shot down by Israelis occurred over the Lebanese-Syrian border.

One of the lessons learned from the Six Day War was the massive rearmament of the armies of Syria and Egypt. A huge contribution to their equipment with more modern military equipment was made by the USSR, which supplied not only its tanks of various modifications to Egypt, but also experienced instructors who trained soldiers in proper combat using armored vehicles. The Arabs equipped their army with a large number of “Little” anti-tank missiles, which were able to quickly and effectively destroy enemy equipment. Periodically conducted exercises, which at first alerted Israeli intelligence and border patrols, finally became perceived by neighbors as the norm.

No less attentively, the Arabs approached the question of choosing the day of the offensive, which was one of the main Jewish holidays, Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement). They knew that the Israelites spend the Judgment Day in prayer, and the cities seem to be dying out: institutions and public transport do not work, and radio and television suspend their broadcasting. However, the cunning adversary did not take into account the fact that it was precisely the absence of traffic congestion that allowed the Israelis to quickly mobilize and get reinforcements soon after the start of the offensive.

Calling the attack of the Egyptians and Syrians sudden will not be entirely correct, for it is known that already early in the morning, long before the invasion began, mobilization was announced in Israel. The adoption of urgent measures, some members of the Israeli government demanded a long time, and regularly received intelligence information about the impending attack worried all the ruling circles of this country. However, the uncertainty and indecisiveness of Prime Minister Golda Meir, which was pressured by the US Secretary of State, as well as the skepticism of the then Defense Minister Moshe Dayan were ultimately decisive.



Suddenly for the Israeli military was the power with which the enemy of October 6 fell on the territory they held Sinai. Describing the tank battles of the Fourth Arab-Israeli War, many historians compare them with such grandiose historical events as the Battle of Kursk in World War II. Eyewitnesses of the battles recall the countless armada of Egyptian tanks that had moved to the Israelis, stretching to the horizon. The land was constantly shuddering from the explosions of artillery shells. It was one of the most massive tank battles in world history. Exactly in 14: 00 an Israeli air strike was made on the position of the Israelis, and five minutes later the Egyptian artillery delivered a crushing blow, in which more than two thousand guns and mortars took part. The readiness of the offensive is eloquently shown by the fact that in just twenty minutes the Egyptians had already put out of action all the firing points of the Israelis, and after another ten minutes they were at the top of the rampart, moving the fire deep into the defense. Their troops forced the Suez Canal all the way down while simultaneously preparing vehicle passages in seventy designated places. After lunch, jubilant Anwar Sadat called Vladimir Vinogradov, the Soviet Union’s ambassador to Cairo, and shouted into the phone: “We crossed the canal! We are on the east bank. Egyptian flag on the east coast! ”

Fighting on the Sinai front from 6 to October 15


Fighting on the Sinai front from 15 to October 24


Fighting on the Syrian front


Hereinafter, excerpts from memories of the October War, one of the most prominent representatives of the foreign affairs services of Israel, Jacob Kedmi, are cited: “One of the reasons for the first failures is the self-confidence of our intelligence leaders. On the eve of the war, Moshe Dayan wanted to recommend Ariel Sharon to the position of the head of the General Staff, but with personal courage, he was absolutely not political. The prime minister put a veto on it, Dayan took off and Arik left the post of commander of the southern district to feed his sheep on his farm. The head of the General Staff made Elazar, who, undoubtedly, was inferior to Sharon in professional terms. "


Although the Israelis were discouraged by the unexpected pressure of the enemy, the speed and scale of the attack, their reaction was not long in coming. As soon as the first Egyptian soldiers set foot on Israeli soil, they were immediately attacked by tank units. Due to lack of preparation time, they acted blindly, without intelligence data, which turned out to be a very rash decision. As a result, by the end of the day, the Egyptian calculations of the ATGM, with the support of infantry, succeeded in disabling more than two hundred Israeli tanks. Defeat after defeat suffered and the glorious Israeli aircraft, just three days lost more than eighty aircraft.

In the evening of October 7, two tank, one mechanized, and five infantry divisions of the Egyptians already hosted on the territory of Sinai. The number of infantry reached a hundred thousand people, tanks - more than eight hundred. At the same time, the second army of Egypt led the offensive towards the Mediterranean coast, and the third army attacked in the Suez region. The fighting continued even at night, and in this plan the Egyptians and Syrians had one important advantage. The fact is that the bulk of the tank fleet of Arabs was Soviet T-55, which had night-vision devices with the ability to control the crew commander and directly the gunner. This made it possible to conduct a successful bombardment of the enemy’s armored vehicles, which had to be more difficult - only a driver could use night vision devices in Israeli tanks. In addition, the small size of the T-55 and high maneuverability due to its relatively low weight made them less vulnerable than the heavy and larger Israeli tanks. However, with larger dimensions and weight, the tanks of the Israeli army provided more comfortable conditions for their crews, had a greater angle of lift and lowering guns, two or three times more ammunition and volume of fuel tanks, as well as more powerful engines. These factors subsequently played an important role in the outcome of that war.



“In theory, everything was fine with us, but in practice not a single scenario of the general staff worked. It was believed that the personnel units had to keep the line of defense for twenty-four hours until the reserve approached, but they could not. In the south, it was a mess. Strategic management was absent, parts entered into battle separately. People thoughtlessly sent to certain death. Later, fabulous things were found out, when, for example, a division attacked a tank battalion. And not because of tactical views, but only because of the stupidity of the leadership. Or the famous motto: "Not a step back." And where is it? In the desert, where the nearest settlement kilometers way. It was Klochkov who was behind Moscow, and our opponent was not even going to walk along the sands, only to capture the entrances of the passes. Instead of withdrawing the troops, maneuvering to lure the Egyptians from under the air cover and destroy, our leadership ordered to hold the desert. All this eventually led to great sacrifices. ”


The successes of the Arabs in the Sinai direction were more than offset by the failures of the Syrians in the region of the Golan Heights. After two days since the first attack, the Israelis came to their senses and on October 8 switched to decisive fighting, rather strongly beckoning the Syrians. Before October 14, the Israeli army managed to make significant progress in the direction of Damascus and firmly consolidate its positions in order not to stretch communications.

During the entire 8 of October, the fiercest tank battle continued in Sinai, in which the Israeli tank brigades lost up to sixty percent of their equipment. In one of the desperate attempts to break through the defense of the Arabs, the Israeli brigade in eighteen minutes managed to lose twenty-four tanks. Remarkable was the fact that almost half of the armored vehicles were destroyed by Egyptian helicopters armed with ATGMs, and the Israeli squadron, which was always considered “invincible”, could not help, since the Egyptian air defense forces worked flawlessly. On October 9, the Egyptian army succeeded in completely destroying the 190 th Israeli tank brigade, and its commander, Asaf Yaguri, was captured.



October 10, after four days of intense battles, the situation on the battlefield stabilized slightly and there was a slight respite. From time to time, the Israelis launched minor counterattacks against Egyptian gun emplacements. The lull was explained very simply: both sides of the military conflict expected reinforcements from their sponsors, such as the United States for the Israelis, and the USSR for Egypt and Syria. The Israelis preferred not to risk, their position was already very precarious, and any enemy attack could result in a breakthrough in the defense, opening the way for the Arabs to the north.

Activity on the Sinai front resumed in 6: 30 in the morning on October 14, when four infantry and two tank divisions of the Egyptians sharply attacked the enemy and advanced ten kilometers ahead. But then the Arabs flew two hundred entrenched Israeli tanks. With the support of eighteen helicopters equipped with TOW anti-tank systems, the Israelis managed to destroy almost half of the advancing tank brigade of Egypt near the Mitla Pass. Then in the ensuing night battle, they destroyed another two hundred sixty tanks and two hundred Egyptian armored personnel carriers. The Israeli army’s own losses amounted to slightly more than forty tanks. On the same day, General Mendler, who commanded Israel’s armored forces in Sinai, was killed.

“In the first air battles we lost the best pilots. Another miscalculation of our leadership: the attack of the Egyptian army with operating air defense systems. They shot the planes point-blank, more than a hundred were shot down. In general, the Egyptians fought very courageously. Their professional level was not very good, the leadership also had problems, and the higher, the more, but ordinary soldiers fought desperately. I remember how we moved three times. He stood in front of the tank and watered us from Kalashnikov. We rode on him, and he lay down between the tracks, then got up and shot again. We turned the car around and again in the forehead at him ... As a result, when he lay down under the tracks for the third time, we turned the tank in place. ”


The losses of both sides have grown so much that without additional delivery weapons and technology from the interested "benefactors" was not enough. Frankly speaking, if it were not for the assistance of the United States, the outcome of the October war would hardly have been so favorable for Israel. In those days, the countries of Europe completely refused military aid to the country. Day and night, Golda Meir continuously called Washington and asked to arrange her meeting with the President of America and the air bridge. The set of her phrases sounded like this: “Help us today. Tomorrow it will be too late. ” At the same time, the prime minister constantly reminded the Americans that “huge deliveries of Russian weapons” are being carried out to Syria and Egypt. In the end, Nixon gave permission and October 14, on the ninth day of the battle, an air bridge arose. Hearing that the first military transport plane landed at the airport, Golda Meir, by her own admission, burst into tears with happiness. It was really something to rejoice about - the distant allies did not stint on tanks, shells and missiles (especially air-to-air). Over the next ten days, Israel received one hundred and twenty-eight combat aircraft, one hundred and fifty M60 tanks, two thousand new-range ATGMs, a large number of missiles and cluster bombs. Military cargo was delivered to twenty-seven thousand tons.



On October 14, a group of Israeli saboteurs disabled the Egyptian radio interception center in the Jebel Ataq area. This loss greatly complicated the last command of the troops and reconnaissance. October 15 forces of the nine tank brigades, the Israelis launched the first frontal counterattack. And although intensive hostilities took place throughout the day, none of the warring parties succeeded.

A non-standard and unexpected way out was found by one of the most talented Israeli military leaders, Major General Ariel Sharon. An excellent student of political and military training of the times of the old Arab-Israeli wars was hastily pulled out of the reserve. What inspired the development of his plan Sharon - a specific historical example or the general hopelessness of the situation, supported by unintelligible high command - today is difficult to say. It is only known that earlier he fiercely criticized the construction of the Bar-Lev line, noting that the very similar “Maginot Line” did not help France in the 1940 year.

Sharon decided to use a very adventurous technique - to strike 143 with her armored division at the weakened junction of the second and third Egyptian armies, covering the positions of Israelis. Interestingly enough, Moshe Dayan ordered earlier that the entire Southern District should refrain from offensive actions. Stabilization of the front was necessary for the government in the run-up to possible cease-fire negotiations with the Egyptians. However, Ariel Sharon ignored this instruction.

On the night of October 15 and 16, a small Israeli detachment, consisting of seven tanks and eight armored personnel carriers, crossed Great Bitter Lake, taking a small bridgehead on the Egyptian coast. The enemy army missed the beginning of the Israeli movement, without allocating additional funds for the defense of the West Bank. It was due to the presence of the entrenched bridgehead on the enemy coast of the part of Sharon who managed to build a pontoon bridge and send tanks to the opposite bank.



“The Egyptians overcame the canal quickly and under fire. None of our oversized boosting tools worked. Only pontoons purchased in Germany ... Our success was the result of the mistakes of the Egyptian leadership, who decided that the tanks would not go there. If they had left at least one brigade, then the whole story would have gone differently ... Having captured the bridgehead on the opposite side of the Suez Canal, we would go to the second echelon troops. Having transferred their anti-tank weapons to the first line, they were deprived of the means to fight armored vehicles. By the way, there was a funny story with air defense systems. The command ordered to disable them, but not to hit the missiles, but only on the antennas. We eliminated the control system, antennas, but in the family it was not without it ... One swung around the rocket. Without control, she spent a few minutes writing out sinusoids between tanks, then flew off somewhere to the side, where she exploded. Then we covered this clever man in all languages. ”


When the Egyptians realized what threatened them with their carelessness, they immediately attacked, trying to cut off the small group of the enemy, which settled on the west bank. But even air support and the power of the tank and infantry divisions could not bring significant results. The battle on Gorky Lake near the "Chinese farm" was, according to some observers, the most fierce. The night battle ended very poorly for the Egyptian army: Sharon's troops managed to knock down one and a half hundred Egyptian tanks with personal losses of seventy vehicles. The next day, October 17, the Egyptians lost as many units of armored vehicles, while the losses of the Israeli army amounted to only eighty tanks. At the end of the day, the Egyptians made their last desperate attempt to drive back the enemy, for which they paid for the loss of eighty-six vehicles, while the Israelis lost only four pieces of equipment.

October 18 The 252 th and 162 th divisions of Israel, having crossed the canal, began to enter the rear of the main group of Egyptian troops represented by the third army. One of the first and most important losses of the Egyptians was the virtually complete destruction of their air defense forces, located west of the canal. And this, in turn, opened the sky for Israeli aviation. October 19 position of the third army from the dominant turned into a threatened. The Israeli army was preparing to deliver a decisive blow to the hated neighbor, but at that moment the UN decided to intervene in relations with Middle Eastern countries, demanding an immediate cessation of hostilities. Both sides used a slight lull in order to take a breath and regroup their forces, preparing for new battles. The Israeli army was in no hurry to follow the advice of the “big brothers” and stopped only on October 25 after the capture of Suez, which was the last chord of the battle of Sinai. Three-day psychological pressure on the ruling circles of Tel Aviv with a demonstrative bringing into full combat readiness of the US nuclear forces and the Soviet Airborne Forces gave their results. The war was stopped.



“The most difficult was after the war. In our battalion there were huge losses, seventy percent killed and wounded. One guy and I went around the battle sites and took the remains of the guys from the tanks. They did not want anyone to remain nameless ... But death in a tank ... From a burned-out person, only a half-kilogram lump of yellow mass, similar to clay, remains. You take it, break it, look for a soldier's medallion ...
In each family, questions, questions ... You begin to answer, and in their eyes: he died, and you are alive. And to say everything until the end, I could not. For example, there were cases when our soldiers were covered by their own artillery. How can you tell a mother that her child fell from an Israeli shell. "

All participants in the war suffered noticeable losses: during nineteen days of fighting, the Arab states lost three hundred and sixty-eight helicopters and airplanes (and sixty-nine of them were shot down by their own air defense forces due to errors and misunderstandings), seventeen hundred armored vehicles. More than eighteen thousand people died, about fifty thousand were wounded. Israel lost one hundred and fourteen helicopters and aircraft, more than eight hundred armored vehicles and tanks. About two and a half thousand Israelis were killed and seven and a half thousand wounded.

Until now, researchers from different countries have not come to the same opinion on the issue of evaluating the outcome of the war. Arab countries believe that they won the 1973 year by destroying the myth of the invulnerability of the Israeli army. In Egypt in general, October 6 is celebrated as Victory Day. As proof, it is argued that only after the war, Israel agreed to negotiations that resulted in the liberation of the Sinai Peninsula. In Israel, on the contrary, they believe that they won, and it’s hard to argue: after eighteen days, the IDF was a hundred kilometers from Cairo, the third army of Egyptians was surrounded, and Damascus was lying in front of Israeli gunners. And yet, if we proceed from the goals that the belligerents set for themselves, none of them has been fully achieved.

The fourth Arab-Israeli war, according to most historians, ended in a “draw” with the exception of one positive point - the Israeli elite, finally, seriously took up the establishment of its relations with the countries of the Middle East. After the end of hostilities in Israel, a commission was established headed by the chairman of the Israeli Supreme Court, Shimon Agranat. It was she who was instructed to investigate the causes of the "misunderstanding" that had nearly grown into a national catastrophe. The preliminary findings of the commission, which were announced on 1 on April 1974, shocked the public. According to her conclusion to reveal the true intentions of the Egyptian military, the Israeli intelligence services put a cover in the form of ongoing exercises, and the premature mobilization of forces was postponed in order not to provoke Arabs to the conflict.



“The top leadership was replaced, but the principles of command and military training remained old. Instead of deep analysis, people fell into a state of euphoria. All those who took part in the battles, regardless of how they showed themselves, were promoted in rank. There were a lot of people in the professional army who did not get into command courses before the war due to inconsistencies. Only commandos, Hi-Tech specialists, naval officers and pilots retained a truly high professional level in our army. ”


Four months after the end of the conflict, Golda Meir openly declared that the highest governing circles of Israel had made gross mistakes that nearly caused the defeat. In response, most of the inhabitants of the country recognized her as the main culprit of the “Doomsday War”. After some time, or rather 11 on April 1974 of the year, at the peak of a wave of mass street protests, the prime minister was forced to leave his post, giving way to his former Israeli ambassador to the United States, Yitzhak Rabin, who during the more successful Six-day war of 1967, commanded the General Staff Israeli army. At parting, she threw: “C me enough. For five years I was carrying this burden, my strength is gone. ” Heads and military men also flew: the Chief of General Staff David Elazar, the commander of the entire Southern District, Shmuel Gonin, as well as prominent military intelligence leaders went to resign. The hero of the war went to Sharon, who virtually single-handedly saved the nation from defeat, since he headed the Southern District until the end of the summer of 1973. To implement the actual policy of national reconciliation had the successor of Yitzhak Rabin, Menachem Begin, who was appointed to the post of Israeli Prime Minister in the 1977 year. The result of this policy was the signing of the Camp David Accords in 1979, which actually marked the end of the Arab struggle with the Jewish state. The irony of history - Begin concluded peace with Sadat on almost the same conditions that Golda Meir rejected in 1971. The powerful crack of the "October War" once again proved to Israel and the whole world that pride is a very bad adviser in politics.

The October War is becoming increasingly important as it goes into the past. In particular, it marked a new era of military conflicts in which various ground-to-air, ground-to-ground, sea-to-ground and air-to-ground missiles were widely used. In light of the findings, military strategists had to rethink all military equipment and science. In addition, the Arab-Israeli war was the formal cause of the very first world oil crisis. October 17 1973 year, the main oil exporters from among the Arab countries adopted a resolution to reduce its production, as well as impose an embargo on the supply to the United States. These measures have had a tremendous impact on the global economy.

Among the subjective factors, the foreign policy of Anwar Sadat, who began to transform Egypt from an ally of the USSR into a hostile country open to cooperation with the United States, is particularly noteworthy. Soviet diplomats were pushed aside from participation in the Middle East settlement processes, which gradually assumed the character of bilateral treaties between Israel and Egypt under the patronage of Washington. In 1976, the first C-130 military transport aircraft from the United States flew to Egypt. At the same time (14 March 1976 year, to be precise) Sadat announced the termination of the treaty of friendship and cooperation with the USSR. Within one month, all Soviet military services left the country.














Information sources:
http://btvt.narod.ru/2/wsd.html
http://ria.ru/analytics/20131006/967823621.html
http://www.agentura.ru/dossier/izrail/nativ/kedmi/
http://www.polit.ru/article/2008/10/08/war/
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  1. smersh70
    smersh70 5 November 2013 09: 02
    38
    see the broken Soviet technology and wonder simply .. how much money they swelled for tanks and gave to the Arabs ... but instead they turned their backs on the USSR at the end ... and it was possible to produce cars ... televisions ... to improve the lives of Soviet citizens and live right now better than any Europe .... and the USSR would not fall apart ... such a huge country ... a powerful economy was .... and it was impractical to use ...... sorry ....
    1. Nayhas
      Nayhas 5 November 2013 09: 45
      +1
      Quote: smersh70
      and it was possible to produce cars ... televisions .. to improve the lives of Soviet citizens and live right now better than any Europe .... and the USSR would not fall apart ... such a huge country ... a powerful economy .... and it was impractical to use ......it's a pity......

      Come on ... USSR could save only the gradual introduction of private property at the same time at the beginning of the 70, when oil prices jumped, in general, China is a prime example ....
      1. Katsin1
        Katsin1 5 November 2013 09: 58
        -23 qualifying.
        What are you writing ... You will be anathematized on the forum ... Here they firmly believe that the wonderful USSR was destroyed by Gorbach, America and the Jews :-))))
        1. smersh70
          smersh70 5 November 2013 10: 44
          12
          Quote: Katsin1
          Америка

          the main initiator is yes, she ....
          Quote: Katsin1
          Humpback,

          accelerated by his stupid actions
          Quote: Katsin1
          Jews:

          but these precisely led the country basically, especially there were a lot of them at the average level and higher ....
          1. Versed
            Versed 5 November 2013 19: 28
            -5
            Russian officers commanded the Arabs, and they fought too (air defense calculations, pilots, etc.) It turns out, by and large, that it was not the Arabs who lost all the wars against Israel, namely the Russians (USSR)

            The evil empire (USSR) broke its teeth in the Middle East, plus the price of oil fell, the lack of the economy in the USSR, theft from the bottom to the top - as a result, the Soviets were blown away, shamefully falling apart into 15 units.

            Russia continues to step on the same rake in Syria, helping the "fraternal Arab" dictator financially and materially for tens of billions of dollars at the expense of the Russian people.
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 5 November 2013 19: 54
              +3
              You are not Russian, you don’t understand why ours did this, and still do.
              1. m262
                m262 5 November 2013 22: 48
                +3
                Or maybe, about the fact that it was Soviet instructors who trained the Arabs not to fight effectively with Israel, is this true? After all, NOT ONE war with Israel was unsuccessful !!!
                Maybe that's why Egypt turned away, agree: the ratio of losses is 2 to 1 in technology and 1 to 9 in HP. and this is subject to a sudden blow to the enemy. It makes you wonder if the teacher is so good ...
                Do not rush to immediately, let's discuss!
                1. Alone
                  Alone 6 November 2013 21: 14
                  +1
                  The Americans were also taught Georgians, and what happened in 2008? The triumphant, victorious march of Saakashvili and their protégé?
                  1. Leopold s
                    Leopold s 16 March 2014 23: 17
                    0
                    The Georgians had no advantage at times over Russia, but quite the opposite
                2. SVT
                  SVT 16 July 2014 11: 23
                  +2
                  How did the Israelis answer this question?
                  "We were lucky that the Arabs were on the other side of the Soviet cannon."
                  That is, the Jews themselves recognize that their victories are due to the fact that they are at war with the Arabs. There was a vivid example, and right there in VO, shortly after this war, 2 Israeli planes forced to lower the flag and surrender the Egyptian corvette, a couple of months later, the British began to fire at a similar corvette, but already in Israel, having mixed up the flags, the Jewish corvette not only shot off, but also managed to knock out 1 of the attacking aircraft.
                  Napoleon seemed to say: "1 French will always lose the battle to one Arab, 10 French will fight on a par with 10 Arabs, and 100 French will always defeat 100 Arabs."
                  the individual training of an ordinary soldier was normal, but the army is a well-coordinated mechanism where everyone helps each other, like in an orchestra, and then a symphony, if everyone does what he wants, is cacophony. Egypt just turned out to be cacophony, that is, while the plan worked out including by our advisers was normal, the same initial period of the war, but as you had to make decisions on the go, organize interaction, show persistence and perseverance, tighten the rear, carry out the reformation so here Egypt was blown away, their skills were enough for frontal attacks. As they say about them: they burn quickly and brightly, and then only ashes. Israel, on the contrary, showed self-sacrifice, when at the first stage the battalions were changed for a while, and then the mobile flank detours, tenacity perseverance and coherence.
            2. AlNikolaich
              AlNikolaich 5 November 2013 22: 18
              +1
              Quote: Versed
              Russian officers commanded the Arabs, and they fought too (air defense calculations, pilots, etc.) It turns out, by and large, that it was not the Arabs who lost all the wars against Israel, namely the Russians (USSR)

              The evil empire (USSR) broke its teeth in the Middle East, plus the price of oil fell, the lack of the economy in the USSR, theft from the bottom to the top - as a result, the Soviets were blown away, shamefully falling apart into 15 units.

              Russia continues to step on the same rake in Syria, helping the "fraternal Arab" dictator financially and materially for tens of billions of dollars at the expense of the Russian people.

              He smiled a little, but not funny ...
              I have not read such nonsense for a long time. With such views, go to America to live, "tovarisch".
              PS I read the comments of this character. All anti-Russian, and not substantiated by anything!
              Verdict- Black list for lies and nonsense! am
              1. Pamir210
                Pamir210 10 November 2013 14: 43
                +2
                on which items are blacklisted?
                none of the site’s rules were violated
              2. Leopold s
                Leopold s 16 March 2014 23: 19
                0
                Freedom of Speech or Fascism
            3. Alone
              Alone 6 November 2013 21: 18
              -2
              Absolutely crazy person.
          2. projdoha
            projdoha 5 November 2013 21: 35
            +4
            The country was destroyed by the Central Committee of the CPSU, the process began with the death of Stalin. When Gorbachev was brought to power, the process became irreversible.
            Study the past with a clear head.
      2. smersh70
        smersh70 5 November 2013 10: 47
        +8
        Quote: Nayhas
        the introduction of private property at the same time in the early 70's, when oil prices jumped, in general, China is a prime example ....

        would help to a certain extent .... but the amount of output would not go either quantitatively (in monetary terms) with defense products just donated ......
        By the way .. in the early 70's in the USSR there was such a system that did not allow the guilds to say the least, not to mention the introduction of private traders ... what are you ....
    2. xetai9977
      xetai9977 5 November 2013 10: 04
      +9
      A few years ago I read that the plans of the Arabs a few days before the offensive were given to the Americans by King Hussein of Jordan.
      1. In the reeds
        In the reeds 6 November 2013 21: 27
        +1
        He warned Golda about the attack, did not believe ... Jordan knows that if there is anyone to rely on in difficult times in the BV, it is on us. We are trying to hold our face, albeit with our long Jewish nose, we have more than once rescued them from the Syrian capture, although they are Arabs Arabs and joined us against all the warriors
    3. APES
      APES 5 November 2013 10: 28
      +5
      Quote: smersh70
      how much money they swelled for tanks and gave to the Arabs ... and they instead turned their backs on the USSR at the end

      “Do not give sanctuary to the dogs and do not throw your pearls before the pigs, so that they do not trample it underfoot with their feet and, turning, do not tear you to pieces” (Matt. 7, 6).
      Quote: smersh70
      but it was possible


      In summary:
      "The road to hell is paved with good intentions"
      1. In the reeds
        In the reeds 5 November 2013 20: 26
        +3
        I agree, we say "Every road to Hell is paved with good intentions"
    4. Ascetic
      Ascetic 5 November 2013 10: 57
      14
      Quote: smersh70
      and it was possible to produce cars ... televisions .. to improve the lives of Soviet citizens and live right now better than any Europe .... and the USSR would not fall apart ... such a huge country ... a powerful economy .... and it was impractical to use ......it's a pity......


      If it were not for the influence of the USSR, the Middle East would have been formatted according to the US-Israeli scenario 40 years ago as it is happening now. 30 years ago, American strategists introduced the concept of Greater Middle East and declared it a priority zone of their interests. All this was called the strategy of "constructive chaos." Then in 1982. in Israel was developed "Inon's plan" -"The Strategy of Israel in the 1980s."
      “The published document concerns the creation of "Great Israel" and is the cornerstone of the influential Zionist movement, which is represented today in the government of Netanyahu (Likud faction), and also widespread among the military and intellectual elite of Israel ... The war in Iraq, in Lebanon in 2006, in Libya in 2011, as well as the ongoing war in Syria and the processes of regime change in Egypt in today's conditions should be considered as part Zionist plan for the Middle East»

      “Greater Israel”: The Zionist Plan for the Middle East
      This plan is based on two main provisions that determine the conditions for the survival of Israel in the Arab environment: 1) Israel must become a regional imperial power, 2) Israel must divide all adjacent territories into small parts, disintegrating the existing Arab states. The size of these states will depend on their ethnic or religious composition. Moreover, the allocation of new states on a religious basis would become a source of moral legitimation of the Jewish state.
      Zionists proceed from the fact that the whole region is built like a house of cards from hostile ethnic groups piled together by foreigners (France and Great Britain in the twenties of the twentieth century), while its inhabitants do not feel the desire and do not seek to be taken into account.
      “This national ethnic picture of minorities, stretching from Morocco and from Somalia to Turkey, indicates a lack of stability and rapid degeneration throughout the region. When this picture is added to the economic situation, we see that the whole region is built like a house of cards, and does not withstand serious problems ”
      . According to this plan, Israel must realize its potential by first establishing control over Sinai
      «Egypt with its current domestic political state is already a corpseespecially if we take into account the growing Muslim-Christian schism. The collapse of Egypt territorially to different geographical regions is Israel’s political goal in the eighties on its western front. ”
      .Longer goal of the collapse of Syria and Iraq Israel’s main task on the eastern front in the long run, while the disappearance of the military power of these states is a short-term task..The same is said for Jordan and the CA.
      1. Ascetic
        Ascetic 5 November 2013 11: 08
        +5
        “The entire Arabian Peninsula is a natural candidate for disintegration due to internal and external pressures, and this is inevitable, especially in Saudi Arabia, regardless of whether it retains its oil-based economic power or if it decreases in the long run.

        There is no chance that Jordan will continue to exist in its current composition for a long time, and Israeli policy, both during the war and in the peace period, should be aimed at eliminating Jordan with its current regime and transferring power to the Palestinian majority.

        As you can see, this plan is being successfully implemented at some points, and the possibility of its implementation is due to the fact that Israel has become part of global transnational capital since the mid-80s. Israeli capital is so merged with transnational capital that the concept of "national economy of Israel" has lost its meaning. Under these conditions, it turned out to be possible for Israel to switch to active expansion, which is not necessarily manifested in military control and force presence, but in intellectual and economic influence and penetration. The main thing is the inclusion of the territory in a common field, in the center of which is Israel
        Zionists rely in this matter on the commandment of Judaism -"To be the force that directs human civilization, which sets the standards for human civilization."
        In the shadow of American geopolitics, or once again about the "Great Israel"
        1. Ascetic
          Ascetic 5 November 2013 11: 23
          +9
          As for the USSR, on this point, paragraph number 5 of the Strategy (Google translation)

          The Gorshkov Doctrine requires Soviet control of the oceans and mineral-rich regions of the Third World. That, together with the current Soviet nuclear doctrine, which believes that it is possible to manage, win and survive a nuclear war, during which the military of the West may well be destroyed, and its inhabitants become slaves in the service of Marxism-Leninism, is the main danger to peace in all the world and our own existence. Since 1967, the Soviets have transformed Clausewitz's dictum into “War is the continuation of politics into nuclear means,” and made this the motto that guides all their policies. Already today they are busy pursuing their goals in our region and around the world, and the need to confront them becomes the most important element in the security policy of our country and, of course, that of the rest of the free world.This is our main foreign policy problem.

          The USSR and the Gorshkov doctrine have long been gone, and the implementation of the Strategy continues, moreover Israel through information warfare by "world media" (read pro-Zionist) always acts as a victim, which is in every way necessary to provide assistance.
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 5 November 2013 12: 38
            +2
            Quote: Ascetic
            The USSR and the Gorshkov doctrine have long been gone, and the implementation of the Strategy continues, and Israel, through an information war by the "world media" (read pro-Zionist), always acts as a victim who needs to be helped in every way.

            You would read the Norwegian media, or the Guardian.
          2. Leopold s
            Leopold s 16 March 2014 23: 56
            0
            It turned out Israel was right.
    5. smprofi
      smprofi 5 November 2013 13: 49
      +2
      Quote: smersh70
      how much money they swelled on tanks and gave to Arabs

      in fairness, it must nevertheless be said that Egypt was not entirely presented. then, even with the cooling of relations, consumer goods were delivered from Egypt: the same clothes, perfumes. something else was going on.
      1. strannik595
        strannik595 5 November 2013 17: 36
        +9
        I feel sorry for the guys who were burnt down in the tanks, there are more Jews, nevertheless they are fellow countrymen (it’s just tough about a pound of yellow mass) ..... half of Israel speaks Russian better than Hebrew ........ irony of fate, two people, two God-bearers, and this is how life clashed, then love, represented by the best representatives and the struggle against a common enemy, then swara ..... even here, on the site ...... and I came to light in 73 only in April
      2. Djozz
        Djozz 5 November 2013 17: 41
        +1
        Especially red wine for 40 kopecks. half a liter, in all pubs, pure contraceptive medium, there was a shmurdyak, even drunks did not drink! Then they made "Solntsedar" from him, it was still disgusting.
        1. Monarchist
          Monarchist 28 February 2018 14: 18
          0
          At that time there was a student ditty: "do not waste time for nothing - hangover" Solntsedarom "
    6. nnz226
      nnz226 6 November 2013 01: 30
      +2
      Chocks and there are chocks! They even managed to turn victory into defeat, this is about the Israeli landing on the west bank of the canal. ! They must deliver weapons to the monkeys and give a grenade.
  2. Lopatov
    Lopatov 5 November 2013 09: 32
    +5
    Hence the moral: it is not worth starting a war if you are not sure that there is enough strength to end it.
    1. smersh70
      smersh70 5 November 2013 09: 54
      0
      Quote: Spade
      do not start a war if you are not sure

      no one can be sure .. Hitler was also sure that ...... morality is completely different ---- the main well-being of his country, his citizens ..... and not some crazy ideas, allies ... and something else like that .....
    2. In the reeds
      In the reeds 5 November 2013 20: 56
      +1
      They knew what they were doing and that we did not lose, Miracle. On Yom Kippur, even the most non-religious fast and go to the synagogue in white shirts, as before death ... Well, at least once a year to be with Him ... If they bring us and we moss bang ... this will not happen to ramadan
      1. smirnov
        smirnov 6 November 2013 02: 14
        +1
        Well bang, so what? how much can you only talk?
        1. In the reeds
          In the reeds 6 November 2013 22: 12
          0
          Politicians are not given and will not be given.
  3. creak
    creak 5 November 2013 09: 45
    +2
    If only to Egypt ... The principle of aid in exchange for biology has been applied to many more countries apart from the Middle East. Offhand: "Ethiopia, Somalia, Angola, Vietnam, Mozambique, Laos, Sudan ...

    The funds were enormous, but, unfortunately, it happened and even in these countries few people know or remember this historical memory is short ... I can judge the scale of this help myself because at one time he had to serve in a group of Soviet military advisers in the Middle East. A small clarification: Soviet troops, with the exception of a group of technical specialists, left Egypt in the summer of 1972 and not in 1976.
  4. Katsin1
    Katsin1 5 November 2013 09: 56
    +2
    The outcome of the Yom Kippur War is unequivocal: Israel’s brilliant military victory, ending in political defeat. Once again, the Israelis proved that they are good military and bad politicians ... So this is still going on ...
    1. svp67
      svp67 5 November 2013 10: 24
      +7
      Quote: Katsin1
      Israel's brilliant military victory

      Still, a couple of such "victories" and the state of Israel could be forgotten for a long time ...
      1. Katsin1
        Katsin1 5 November 2013 10: 39
        +2
        The same can be said about the USSR and the Second World War. Nevertheless, you will not deny that the USSR won the Second World War? In the same way, the Doomsday War: the most difficult war, which ended in a convincing victory for Israel, which our mediocre politicians turned into a convincing political defeat ...
        1. svp67
          svp67 5 November 2013 10: 52
          +9
          Quote: Katsin1
          The same can be said about the USSR and the Second World War. Nevertheless, you will not deny that the USSR won the Second World War?

          So yes not so ... We COMPLETELY destroyed the hostile state, "sitting" on its territory, that is, completely eliminating, for a long time, the military threat from there ...
          Israel only defeated the PART of the armed forces of the Arab countries, which, by the way, were quickly restored, UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE?
          1. smprofi
            smprofi 5 November 2013 15: 22
            +5
            Quote: svp67
            "sitting" on its territory, that is, completely eliminating, for a long time, a military threat from there ...

            um ... but did NAT forces exist on the territory of Germany? and when did the regular autumn games under the name Autumn Forge begin in the FRG, then in the Soviet Union and, especially, in the groups of troops there was continuous silence and grace?
            Quote: svp67
            Israel only defeated part of the armed forces of the Arab countries

            them, the Arabs, and this was enough to cool

            strictly speaking, to understand this Middle East conflict who first started and who is to blame the most is dearer to oneself. but according to the 73rd one can definitely say that the Arabs do not look at their best. and if not for the help of the Soviet Union, then with multiple advantage in the Arabs forces they would eventually lose even more of their territory than they tried to return
    2. smersh70
      smersh70 5 November 2013 10: 51
      +4
      Quote: Katsin1
      that they are good military

      and in 2006, it was the other way round ....... wassat the adversary at YOU, except for the last case is not the same ... smile on the one hand, what I like is that you completely do not follow the instructions. The orders ... the main thing for you .. purpose, expediency, there is no blind worship of the leadership, everything is aimed at victory .....
    3. In the reeds
      In the reeds 5 November 2013 21: 10
      +3
      Unfortunately the truth is useless to argue
  5. 416sd
    416sd 5 November 2013 10: 12
    +5
    Good article, plus the author.
    The conclusions are literate.
    1. Aaron Zawi
      Aaron Zawi 5 November 2013 18: 51
      0
      Quote: 416sd
      Good article, plus the author.
      The conclusions are literate.

      In my opinion, very little attention is paid to the Northern Front, but it was much closer to the strategically important areas of Israel than the Southern Front and the Syrian Front Commander General Yanosh told the tankmen: “You saved the people of Israel.”
      He was right: the fate of the country was decided on October 9 in the Golan Heights.In the “Valley of Tears”, the 7-I brigade lost 98 “Centurions” from 105 (according to other sources - 73), but was able to destroy 230 Arab tanks and more 200 armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles. At the cost of their own death, the brigade stopped the advance of the Syrians. 188-I reserve brigade lost equipment less than 7-I, but the loss of personnel was higher - in four days of fighting in the brigade 90% of officers were out of order. Otherwise, on this critical day of October 9, events developed south of El Cuneitra. Here the Israelis were able to take the initiative into their own hands: units of the approaching 4, 9 and 679 reserve tank brigades counterattacked the units of the Syrian 9 infantry division. The attack was repelled with heavy losses for the Israelis and they brought into battle the 205 tanks th reserve brigade. The tank battle in the area of ​​the village of Ramat-Magshimim evoked the memory of the battles of the Second World War not only with its intensity, but also with the equipment that took part in it, the 205th brigade was armed with albeit modernized, but still “Shermans” (M-51 ), anti-tank batteries of the 7 infantry division - SU 100. The Israelis slowly but surely pressed the Arabs, and by the end of the day they reached the approaches to the road junction and an important stronghold of the Husseinius Syrians. Husseinia became the same attraction of armored vehicles on both sides, as a few days earlier in the “Valley of Tears”. Both Israelis and Arabs threw two tank brigades here. The tank battle ended in favor of the Israelis. By the middle of the day of October 10, Israeli troops reached the ceasefire line along its entire length, and a relative calm fell in the battles on the Syrian front. Both sides regrouped and replenished their troops with reserves. This day is significant in that Iraq and Jordan entered the war on the side of the Arabs. In a hurry, 350 Iraqi tanks and 18 000 soldiers headed for the Golan Heights; Jordan deployed its elite 40 tank brigade to Syria. Late night in Tel Aviv, high-ranking officials decided how to continue fighting on the Syrian front .. Lieutenant General Elazar, chief of the general staff, stood behind a counterattack to a depth of about 22 km to defeat the Syrian groupings. Decisive was the opinion of Prime Minister Golda Meir, who joined the Chief of General Staff. The offensive was scheduled for October 11.00 11. In just one day, the Israelis were able to restore the combat power of the 7 brigade. It gathered all the surviving tanks, and also gave a fresh reserve battalion; as a result, by the morning of October 11, there were four fully equipped tank battalions. As planned, in 11 hours, under cover of artillery and aviation, the Kahalani tanks were the first to cross the Purple Line. Ugdat “Raful”, whose main force was the tankers of the 7, 17 and 679 brigades, attacked along the Shams-Mazrat-Beit-Dzhan road.
  6. svp67
    svp67 5 November 2013 10: 21
    +3
    An interesting photo, here are the guys in the foreground, but VERY "LIKE" Jews ... where are you guys from?
    1. Katsin1
      Katsin1 5 November 2013 10: 36
      +5
      You just imagine the Jews descended from the Goebels cartoons or the crocodile magazine. but in fact, Jews are very different, from completely black to blond with blue eyes. And do not forget about the subbotniks (judaizing according to the definition of the Russian tsar) - Russian peasants in the 19th century moved whole villages to Judaism and moved to Israel
      1. svp67
        svp67 5 November 2013 11: 29
        +5
        Quote: Katsin1
        You just imagine the Jews descended from the Goebels cartoons or the crocodile magazine
        Thank God I have lived and live in a MULTINATIONAL state, so that I can not only "imagine" a citizen of Jewish nationality, but I can also see them every day, and I DO NOT SEE "Aryans" among them ...
        1. Professor
          Professor 5 November 2013 11: 35
          0
          Quote: svp67
          Thank God I have lived and live in a MULTINATIONAL state, so that I can not only "imagine" a citizen of Jewish nationality, but I can also see them every day, and I DO NOT SEE "Aryans" among them ...

          Everyone sees what he wants to see
          1. svp67
            svp67 5 November 2013 13: 18
            +4
            Quote: Professor
            Everyone sees what he wants to see

            Of course, it's more pleasant for me to see such faces, even in the form of Israel, but how much "Jewish" are there in these girls? Yes, there every freckle "screams" about its northern origin ...
            1. Professor
              Professor 5 November 2013 13: 27
              +4
              Quote: svp67
              Yes, there every freckle "screams" about its northern origin ...

              I hasten to disappoint you in this 100% Jewish. Papa Rafi, Ziprora’s mother, were also born in Israel.
              1. svp67
                svp67 5 November 2013 13: 28
                +2
                Quote: Professor
                Papa Rafi, Ziprora’s mother, were also born in Israel.

                Well, there are miracles, especially in your area ...
                Although not only
                Werner Goldberg - Wehrmacht soldier


                The highest-ranking Nazi Jew is Deputy Goering Inspector General of the Luftwaffe, Field Marshal Erhard Milch. In order not to discredit Milch in the eyes of ordinary Nazis, the party leadership stated that Milch's mother did not have sex with her Jewish husband, and that the true father of Erhard was Baron von Bir. Goering laughed for a long time about this: “Yes, we made Milch a murderer, but a murder aristocratic.”
                1. Professor
                  Professor 5 November 2013 13: 39
                  0
                  Quote: svp67
                  Well, there are miracles, especially in your area ...

                  Your national socialist rassovaya theory collapses before our eyes.

                  PS
                  Our region is from the river to the sea.
                  1. svp67
                    svp67 5 November 2013 20: 45
                    +2
                    Quote: Professor
                    Your national socialist rassovaya theory collapses before our eyes.

                    You can sleep peacefully, I do not create any theories, especially the National Socialist ...
                    Here is a man who became everything for Russia, but he didn’t look very much like a native Russian man, for which he suffered all the time ... But who said that he was not Russian.
                    .
                    And in your protege "Scandinavian" roots are clearly visible ...
                    1. Professor
                      Professor 5 November 2013 21: 48
                      -2
                      Quote: svp67
                      You can sleep peacefully, I do not create any theories, especially the National Socialist ...

                      It’s true that you use alien racial theories. Will we measure the skulls?
                      1. svp67
                        svp67 5 November 2013 21: 50
                        +3
                        Quote: Professor
                        It’s true that you use alien racial theories. Will we measure the skulls?

                        If you so want to start with your own ... You can not disclose the results, I do not think that anyone is interested.
                      2. m262
                        m262 5 November 2013 23: 07
                        +2
                        Professor, this already looks like a phobia! "everyone wants to offend a Jew!" like Estonians - "all Russian occupiers"
                      3. Leopold s
                        Leopold s 17 March 2014 00: 08
                        0
                        King Solomon was blue-eyed
              2. Versed
                Versed 5 November 2013 19: 54
                -2
                29-I Grenadier Division of the SS "RONA" (1-I Russian)
                30-I Grenadier Division of the SS (2-I Russian)
                SS Division "Russland"

                The list can be continued about 2 million (Soviet Russians) went over to the side of the enemy, including Khivi or Ost-Hilfswilligen, eastern volunteers in the form of policemen, informers, and so on.
                1. builder74
                  builder74 6 November 2013 21: 28
                  -1
                  Shame and hatred for traitors!
            2. svp67
              svp67 5 November 2013 13: 42
              -1
              Quote: Professor
              I hasten to disappoint you in this 100% Jewish. Papa Rafi, Ziprora’s mother, were also born in Israel.

              Do you have a photo of your parents? and then, honestly, a doubt creeps in that Tsiprora's mom is understandable here, but that's Rafi's dad, and not any Reino, Richard or Rodion ... Excuse me, but where are the "roots" of this family? Freckles are a sign of the "northern" (Nordic) peoples ...
              1. Professor
                Professor 5 November 2013 14: 28
                +2
                Quote: svp67
                Do you have a photo of your parents? and then, honestly, the doubt creeps in, that Tsiprora’s mother is understandable here, but here’s that Papa Rafi, and not Reino, Richard or Rodion ...

                Here are dad and mom, but alas, according to your Nuremberg laws, even her "Aryan" appearance would not have saved her from a concentration camp.

                1. svp67
                  svp67 5 November 2013 20: 48
                  0
                  Quote: Professor
                  Here are dad and mom, but alas, according to your Nuremberg laws, even her "Aryan" appearance would not have saved her from a concentration camp.

                  Well, it remains to blame me for the "Holocaust" ... And judging by the fact that many people of Jewish nationality served faithfully to the 3rd Reich, apparently not all of them had a place in concentration camps ...
                  1. Professor
                    Professor 5 November 2013 21: 50
                    -3
                    Quote: svp67
                    Well, I still have to blame the "Holocaust"

                    The gut is thin You disaster arrange. You just crush the ideology of Natsik for yourself, there are all kinds of racial theories, etc.

                    And judging by the fact that many people of Jewish nationality served faithfully in the 3rd Reich, apparently not all of them had a place in concentration camps ...

                    Is it about Vlasov’s army or Cossack divisions?
                    1. svp67
                      svp67 5 November 2013 22: 02
                      0
                      Quote: Professor
                      The gut is thin You disaster arrange. You just crush the ideology of Natsik for yourself, there are all kinds of racial theories, etc.

                      Who about what, and lousy about the bathhouse - remember another Russian proverb?
                      Well, where do we go to you, do you still remember about Deir Yassin? What about Sabru and Chatulu?
                    2. atalef
                      atalef 5 November 2013 22: 11
                      0
                      [quote = svp67] Well, of course, where are we to you, do you still remember about Deir Yasin? And Sabra and Shatilu? [/ Quote
                      Write to me how many died in Sabra and Shatila, why and how.
                      Maybe they (the Palestinians) were killed by the Christians (Lebanese) for the murder of their Lebanese Christian president, Zhmael. Was there (in Sabra and Shatil) at least one Israeli old soldier? pliz link that the Israelis participated in the executions.
                    3. Lopatov
                      Lopatov 5 November 2013 22: 20
                      +2
                      Quote: atalef
                      Was there (in Sabra and Shatil) at least one Israeli old soldier?

                      Did not have. They stood in a cordon and strenuously pretended that nothing was happening. They just didn’t let the victims out. It’s the same as driving people into a barn and setting it on fire. It will kill the fire, but those who have closed the gate are by no means innocent either.
                    4. Professor
                      Professor 5 November 2013 22: 39
                      -2
                      Quote: Spade
                      Did not have. They stood in a cordon and strenuously pretended that nothing was happening. They just didn’t let the victims out. It’s the same as driving people into a barn and setting it on fire. It will kill the fire, but those who have closed the gate are by no means innocent either.

                      Do not read Soviet newspapers before breakfast. The only thing Israel was accused of was that it did not prevent the massacre, although no one specifies how it could be done. In this regard, Sharon was punished by prohibiting him from holding a power post in the future. If you want to cure the Israeli military, then give the wrong cases as an example. Well, at least aul Kana.
                    5. Lopatov
                      Lopatov 5 November 2013 22: 51
                      +3
                      In Soviet newspapers, everything was much tougher.

                      Let's look at the facts. Phalangists went to a camp blocked by Israeli troops. Fact? Fact. Of people. those who fled from the pogroms did not release Fact? Fact. The massacre lasted more than two days with the complete inaction of the Israeli troops. Fact? Fact.

                      That is, we have fire-phalangists, arson, that they were let in, a closed barn-camp, blocked by Israeli troops.

                      Why is part of the report of the Kahan commission still classified?
                    6. Professor
                      Professor 5 November 2013 23: 02
                      -1
                      Quote: Spade
                      Let's look at the facts. Phalangists went to a camp blocked by Israeli troops. Fact? Fact. Of people. those who fled from the pogroms did not release Fact? Fact. The massacre lasted more than two days with the complete inaction of the Israeli troops. Fact? Fact.

                      These are not facts, but conjectures. "Facts" are not supported by anything, so what are these facts? How do you imagine Arab women and children who are being sent to the Tsakhalavsky block post, but they are not allowed to go and are sent back to the carnage.

                      Quote: Spade
                      That is, we have fire-phalangists, arson, that they were let in, a closed barn-camp, blocked by Israeli troops.

                      These phalangists did not inform anyone of their intentions and in general it was there at home. Do you have any idea what these camps looked like?

                      Why is part of the report of the Kahan commission still classified?

                      Nothing is classified there; take it in the library entirely.
                    7. Lopatov
                      Lopatov 5 November 2013 23: 11
                      +2
                      Quote: Professor
                      These phalangists did not inform anyone of their intentions and in general it was there at home. Do you have any idea what these camps looked like?

                      Cool. Journalists learned about what was happening in the camp earlier than the Israeli military blocking it. And I must believe it. Maybe Sharon and the blonde, but I'm not.

                      By the way, for the second time: Sharon, war crime and children's excuses. He doesn’t know that there are people in the houses being blown up, he doesn’t know that 30 hours of massacre are going on ... Is it strange, don’t you?
                    8. Professor
                      Professor 5 November 2013 23: 15
                      -1
                      Quote: Spade
                      Cool. Journalists learned about what was happening in the camp earlier than the Israeli military blocking it. And I must believe it. Maybe Sharon and the blonde, but I'm not.

                      Of course. There were no Israelis in the camps, but there were journalists. Accordingly, they learned earlier.

                      Quote: Spade
                      By the way, for the second time: Sharon, war crime and children's excuses.

                      Sharon was not even charged with a war crime, let alone a conviction. He was accused of indirect involvement, namely, "did not prevent."
                    9. atalef
                      atalef 5 November 2013 23: 16
                      -2
                      Quote: Spade
                      Cool. Journalists learned about what was happening in the camp earlier than the Israeli military blocking it. And I must believe it. Maybe Sharon and the blonde, but I'm not.

                      By the way, for the second time: Sharon, war crime and children's excuses. He doesn’t know that there are people in the houses being blown up, he doesn’t know that 30 hours of massacre are going on ... Is it strange, don’t you?

                      Do not go away from the answer and do not switch to Sharon. What do you see should have been the role of Sharon? Stop the phalangists (Lebanese Christians). cutting Palestinian - don't forget. all this happened on the land of Lebanon. You probably don’t understand one thing. Phalangists collaborated with Israel. but did not serve him and did not obey. So . What, is there a difference between stop and kill? So again the question is, why are Christian phalangists - real killers never mentioned?
                    10. Apollo
                      Apollo 5 November 2013 23: 27
                      +1
                      Quote: atalef
                      Do not go away from the answer and do not switch to Sharon.

                      Alexander hi Good evening! The blame for the events in Sabra and Shatila is not Israel but Sharon specifically.

                      Quote: atalef
                      Stop the phalangists (Lebanese Christians). cutting Palestinian - don't forget. all this happened on the land of Lebanon. You probably don’t understand one thing. Phalangists collaborated with Israel. but did not serve him and did not obey.

                      but the Israeli Army controlled the situation in Lebanon, and in which case it could give the phalangists the brains but did not.

                      Quote: atalef
                      So . What, is there a difference between stop and kill? So again the question is, why are Christian phalangists - real killers never mentioned?


                      The blame lies with Sharon but along with him should be held accountable and phalangists. But Sharon still has not been held accountable, the question is why?! Probably for past services to Israel. Sharon's fault is that with the direct connivance of Sharon, the phalangists staged a massacre.
                    11. atalef
                      atalef 5 November 2013 23: 37
                      +2
                      The blame lies with Sharon but along with him should be held accountable and phalangists. But Sharon still has not been held accountable, the question is why?! Probably for past services to Israel. Sharon's fault is that with the direct connivance of Sharon, the phalangists staged a massacre.

                      Hello Apollo, good evening to you!
                      Sharon was still punished, and the phalangists are now allies of Hezbollah, that's how things are changing
                    12. Pimply
                      Pimply 6 November 2013 00: 36
                      +2
                      Quote: Apollon
                      but the Israeli Army controlled the situation in Lebanon, and in which case it could give the phalangists the brains but did not.

                      How much control? Part of Lebanon was occupied by the Syrians, the rest was a civil war. And civil war is always a wild turmoil.
                      Sabra and Shatila are examples of how war is not a game of chess.
                    13. Professor
                      Professor 6 November 2013 10: 06
                      -1
                      Quote: Apollon
                      Alexander Good evening! The blame for the events in Sabra and Shatila is not Israel but Sharon specifically.

                      Is that what you decided or some kind of legal authority? Say the Hague Tribunal?

                      Quote: Apollon
                      but the Israeli Army controlled the situation in Lebanon, and in which case it could give the phalangists the brains but did not.

                      Bad you know the story. Israel occupied only part of Lebanon (a small part) and Beirut’s chat, and even there everything was not controlled.

                      Quote: Apollon
                      The blame lies with Sharon but along with him should be held accountable and phalangists. But Sharon still has not been held accountable, the question is why?

                      Because his guilt was not proven, which means he is absolutely not guilty. Do you have another court order? Then share.

                      PS
                      Usually for such statements "IMHO" is used. hi
                2. Pimply
                  Pimply 6 November 2013 00: 28
                  +1
                  Quote: Spade
                  Cool. Journalists learned about what was happening in the camp earlier than the Israeli military blocking it. And I must believe it. Maybe Sharon and the blonde, but I'm not.

                  In Lebanon, there were a huge number of journalists. Which were somewhat faster.
            3. atalef
              atalef 5 November 2013 23: 09
              +1
              Quote: Spade
              Phalangists went to a camp blocked by Israeli troops. Fact

              Fact

              Quote: Spade
              Fact. People. those who fled from the pogroms did not release Fact?

              No, or a link please

              Quote: Spade
              The massacre lasted more than two days with the complete inaction of the Israeli troops. Fact? Fact.

              Lebanese Christians wet the Palestinians for the massacre of Lebanese Christians in Damur (1976) - what is the problem?

              Quote: Spade
              That is, we have fire-phalangists, arson, that they were let in, a closed barn-camp, blocked by Israeli troops.

              “In the afternoon of 16 on September 1982 before the Lebanese military entered the refugee camps,“ Sharon gave clear instructions to Hobeik to take the necessary measures to keep his people within the law. ” Despite this, Hobeika gave his own order: "Complete extermination ... The camps must be wiped [from the face of the earth]."
              According to Ynetnews:

              “During the meeting, IDF representatives emphasized that the civilian population should not suffer” [32

              Do you know who Hubeika is - Lebanese - Christian - leader of phalangists
              ]
              Quote: Spade
              Why is part of the report of the Kahan commission still classified?

              When we declassify
              You better answer me. why did the phalangists-Lebanese-Christians slaughter and kill, and blame the Jews for everything? Or were they forced to kill? Or they received an order to kill (from the IDF), as you can see from the above documents, definitely not. So why with Sabra and Shatila there is a mention of Israel and not a word about those Lebanese Christians who really killed (although in response, as they say, to the massacre of Christians by the Palestinians (
              What do you say?
            4. Lopatov
              Lopatov 5 November 2013 23: 18
              +2
              Quote: atalef
              You better answer me. why did the phalangists-Lebanese-Christians slaughter and kill, and blame the Jews for everything?

              Actually, they are accusing both phalangists and the Israeli army. The first for the massacre, the second for contributing to this massacre, launched. they blocked and pretended that nothing happens even when journalists became aware of this.
            5. atalef
              atalef 5 November 2013 23: 28
              +2
              Quote: Spade
              Quote: atalef
              You better answer me. why did the phalangists-Lebanese-Christians slaughter and kill, and blame the Jews for everything?

              Actually, they are accusing both phalangists and the Israeli army. The first for the massacre, the second for contributing to this massacre, launched. they blocked and pretended that nothing happens even when journalists became aware of this.

              they don’t remember about phalangists, be honest, but what do you answer to this fact, notice it was in the Soviet zone of occupation (Czechoslovakia), someone remembers, maybe someone from the command of the Red Army was punished or warned?

              . First, in July 1945, numerous government officials and Czech security forces began to infiltrate the Sudetenland. Their appearance was accompanied by uniform robbery. Attempts by the local population to show some resistance were perceived as “Nazi provocations”, followed by bloody punitive measures. This was the third stage of violence in these territories. The spiral of violence led to bloody atrocities. The atrocities committed by the new Czechoslovak authorities were not inferior in cruelty to the SS "operations." Ordinary ethnic Germans could be shot without investigation. It was a banal tabulation, which had nothing to do with the suppression of the real Nazi underground. The most disgusting manifestation of this outrage was the so-called “wild exiles” that began at the end of the 1945 year. The Germans were not deported, but simply thrown out into the street. Entire cities and villages were left without shelter and means of subsistence. They had to get to Germany themselves.

              difference in what? what were the Germans? so these were peaceful Germans, and who shot them? The Czechs are their former neighbors, and who was the ball of power at that time in the Czech Republic? Red Army - I dare to remind you, so what is the difference and who except me knows about it? And about Sabra and Shatila - even the last dog
            6. Witold
              Witold 6 November 2013 00: 21
              -4
              Do not tag the beads. You can’t convince Lopatov. This is a prototype of the Soviet political instructor or communist bong.
              There is no one to justify to. If this happened to them, you would have heard the phrase - "Our cause is just, we will win." You can certainly remind Lopatov of Novocherkask.
            7. Lopatov
              Lopatov 6 November 2013 00: 52
              +2
              Dear, I only recalled Novocherkassk today. In the article about the South Korean mask. I remembered about those killed in the square, and about those who were shot and planted after.
              For me, on the drum, who committed a war crime. And unlike your fellow citizens, I'm not going to whitewash the criminals.
              If launching a missile at a Georgian hospital by a Russian helicopter is a crime, then I say so, and I don’t start throwing excuses for children that the whitewashing themselves do not believe.
            8. Pimply
              Pimply 6 November 2013 01: 07
              +2
              Quote: Spade
              If launching a missile at a Georgian hospital by a Russian helicopter is a crime, then I say so, and I don’t start throwing excuses for children that the whitewashing themselves do not believe.

              Shovels, do not prevaricate. Recall that you talked about Afghanistan in parallel. This, by the way, is normal - we are people, and tend to take sides, and ignore something. The fact remains - the Israeli army at that moment committed a crime. But do not ascribe those moments that were not there.
            9. Lopatov
              Lopatov 6 November 2013 01: 10
              +2
              I talked about reality. I was presented with speculation.
            10. Pimply
              Pimply 6 November 2013 01: 30
              +3
              Quote: Spade
              I talked about reality. I was presented with speculation.

              More specifically. I did not show anything. I mentioned the name of one village. I told you clearly, Lopatov - I don’t want to delve into the situation with the war crimes of the Soviet army, simply because I respect it quite strongly: both of my grandfathers gave her more than a dozen years. That is why I did not, for example, cite data from the report of Felix Ermakor, the UN special rapporteur, and other documents on Afghanistan (and only the 1985th covers Sabra and Chatilla more than once). Yes, when you watch the report, read it in English - in the Russian version, for political reasons, the 13-page application is excluded.
    2. Lopatov
      Lopatov 6 November 2013 00: 56
      +2
      Quote: atalef
      they don’t remember about phalangists, be honest

      Crimes of phalangists are not an indulgence for Israelis. Like OOP crimes.
    3. Pimply
      Pimply 6 November 2013 01: 07
      +1
      Quote: Spade
      Crimes of phalangists are not an indulgence for Israelis. Like OOP crimes.
      Right. But let's rely on the facts.
    4. Lopatov
      Lopatov 6 November 2013 01: 10
      0
      The massacre is not a fact?
    5. Pimply
      Pimply 6 November 2013 01: 30
      0
      Quote: Spade
      The massacre is not a fact?

      It depends on how you file, Lopatov, and you know this very well.
    6. In the reeds
      In the reeds 6 November 2013 15: 27
      -1
      but it is clear that Sharon is smart and talked with everyone else in the subject. I did not receive an answer ... And after that they saw how bloody people were dancing in front of the cameras, if they were, of course, they were winding their guts around their elbows, and the corpses of two soldiers, tied by their legs, were dragged along the streets of Ramala, the Army was waiting for "Good" but did not receive ... Politics , too many freaks would die.
  7. Pimply
    Pimply 6 November 2013 00: 21
    +1
    Quote: Spade
    They simply didn’t let the victims out.

    More details, please, Shovels.
  8. Lopatov
    Lopatov 6 November 2013 00: 57
    0
    Did I miss something and the camp was not blocked? That bad luck ... Or was it still?
  9. Pimply
    Pimply 6 November 2013 01: 08
    0
    Quote: Spade
    Did I miss something and the camp was not blocked? That bad luck ... Or was it still?

    Blocked - is this necessarily sending back to the massacre?
  10. Lopatov
    Lopatov 6 November 2013 01: 19
    +1
    No, this is an obstacle to leaving the camp. People were killed there 30 hours. I am very far from the thought that they just sat and waited. And they would not have tried to leave if they had not been hindered.
  11. Pimply
    Pimply 6 November 2013 01: 32
    +1
    Quote: Spade
    No, this is an obstacle to leaving the camp. People were killed there 30 hours. I am very far from the thought that they just sat and waited. And they would not have tried to leave if they had not been hindered.

    Shovels. More specifically, please.
  12. Professor
    Professor 6 November 2013 10: 11
    0
    Quote: Spade
    Did I miss something and the camp was not blocked? That bad luck ... Or was it still?

    I repeat the question. Do you have any idea what these camps look like? I am sure that no. No one let anyone go anywhere. Everyone who wanted to climb there, since it was possible to block it only by enclosing the Berlin Wall.
  13. In the reeds
    In the reeds 6 November 2013 00: 30
    -1
    Yes, it was necessary to go in and wet both of them, is there another way?
  14. Lopatov
    Lopatov 6 November 2013 00: 58
    +2
    It was necessary not to let in.
  15. In the reeds
    In the reeds 6 November 2013 22: 22
    0
    I agree with you Lopatov, we have been living here for many years and cannot get used to reality.
  16. svp67
    svp67 5 November 2013 22: 24
    +1
    Quote: atalef
    Write to me how many died in Sabra and Shatila, why and how.
    Maybe they (the Palestinians) were killed by the Christians (Lebanese) for the murder of their Lebanese Christian president, Zhmael. Was there (in Sabra and Shatil) at least one Israeli old soldier? pliz link that the Israelis participated in the executions.

    Of course you are "white and fluffy" there. Your troops completely controlled not only the entire perimeter, but the entire area. The Lebanese Christian militia could not pass just like that, that is, your troops let them through and then "calmly" watched everything that was going on inside for a whole day. Have the courage to admit that your army could not only immediately stop this crime, but also prevent it, but you did not do it ... that is, you committed the same CRIME.
  17. Witold
    Witold 6 November 2013 00: 25
    0
    If so, tell me who committed the crime in Novocherkask? Who shot unarmed residents including children? And this is only because people are tired of empty shelves in stores.
  18. Lopatov
    Lopatov 6 November 2013 00: 54
    +4
    Quote: Vitold
    Who shot unarmed residents including children?

    Army. Plus, from the roof of the hotel are great snipers. Any more silly questions? Just how can this whitewash your criminals?
  19. In the reeds
    In the reeds 6 November 2013 00: 52
    0
    Do not believe it, but we do not understand the Arabs. We want to believe that, yes. But in the end, crap with butter, like Sabra and Shatila. We will release the killers from prison in order to somehow break the deadlock. And they are again for Kalash ...
  20. Professor
    Professor 5 November 2013 22: 24
    -1
    Quote: svp67
    Well, where do we go to you, do you still remember about Deir Yassin? What about Sabru and Chatulu?

    It’s true, the scale is not the same. How many people died in this village tell me pliz. Will we remember about Katyn?
    Sabra and Shatila are completely off topic, Christians slaughtered Muslims for slaughtering Christians.
  21. svp67
    svp67 5 November 2013 22: 35
    +3
    Quote: Professor
    How many people died in this village tell me pliz.

    Well, what to talk about, you don’t even remember ... The main thing here is to have time to blame others
    Quote: Professor
    Will we remember about Katyn?

    Let us recall, especially how many people of Jewish nationality were in the country's leadership at that time ... and how many Jews were among the NKVD officers who carried out the sentence. You touch upon topics that are best avoided. Once again, my country has been and will be multinational, so any attempt to blame us for Nazism is stupid.
  22. Professor
    Professor 5 November 2013 22: 45
    0
    Quote: svp67
    Well, what can I say, you don’t remember ...

    I remember, and you? So how many of the 107 Arabs who died in the battles for this village were women and children? Come on!!! Do they have names or as usual?

    Quote: svp67
    Let us recall, especially how many people of Jewish nationality were in the country's leadership at that time ... and how many Jews were among the NKVD officers who carried out the sentence. You touch upon topics that are best avoided.

    Lay out lists of performers and estimate how many Jews were there.

    Quote: svp67
    Once again, my country has been and will be multinational, so any attempt to blame us for Nazism is stupid.

    Who is this "us"? I blame you specifically and nothing more.
  23. svp67
    svp67 5 November 2013 22: 54
    +3
    Quote: Professor
    I remember, and you? So how many of the 107 Arabs who died in the battles for this village were women and children?


    According to various estimates, between 107 and 254 people died in Deir Yassin.
    Sharif Kanyana of the Palestinian University, Bir Zayt, interviewed survivors and in 1988 published data currently recognized by the scientific community as authoritative: 107 people died, 12 were injured [21].
    A Palestinian historian Arif al-Arif wrote in 1956 that he counted 117 killed, of which 7 were killed in battle, and 110 were killed in their homes.
    The leader of the operation, Ranaan, called the number of those killed 240 - by his own admission, with the aim of intimidating the Arabs. A similar figure - 254 killed - was called by the leaders of the Supreme Arab Committee, hoping to provoke a sense of revenge among the Arabs.
    Israeli historian Uri Milstein calls the figure 110 killed maximum [2].
    Kanyana writes that after the battle, 25 prisoners were executed and thrown into the quarry, Gelber believes these data are reliable. According to Gelber, the only alternative to executing prisoners would be to release them, since there was no way to keep an underground prisoner of war camp under the noses of the British authorities.

    Quote: Professor
    Lay out lists of performers and estimate how many Jews were there.

    About those events in general from the Soviet side, one sheet of the report has been preserved in a "special folder" ...

    Quote: Professor
    Who is this "us"? I blame you specifically and nothing more.

    And in what? That you want to measure people's skulls is your personal initiative ... Love people like you, blaming others for your sins ...
  24. Professor
    Professor 5 November 2013 23: 10
    -1
    Quote: svp67
    According to various estimates, between 107 and 254 people died in Deir Yassin.

    Copy-paste again? Do they have names? I can name all the Israeli dead you name, in all wars, in all terrorist attacks. Arabs used to be more modest, 254 victims ... Today they are not embarrassed to add zero or two.

    Quote: svp67
    About those events in general from the Soviet side, one sheet of the report has been preserved in a "special folder" ...

    So no names? Predictably ...

    Quote: svp67
    And in what? That you want to measure people's skulls is your personal initiative ... Love people like you, blaming others for your sins ...

    Uh no. Are you here about the Aryans, race signs, etc. have begun. Your idols besides the color of the eyes and freckles also measured the skulls. Really forgot?
  25. svp67
    svp67 6 November 2013 01: 38
    +2
    Quote: Professor
    Uh no. Are you here about the Aryans, race signs, etc. have begun. Your idols besides the color of the eyes and freckles also measured the skulls. Really forgot?


    Professor, you are RETROGRAD, because you reject the science of GENETICS, replacing it with Eugenics and, moreover, try to bring an ideological basis for it.
    Professor, you need to rest a bit, otherwise it is not far from a nervous breakdown.
  26. svp67
    svp67 6 November 2013 01: 49
    0
    Quote: Professor
    Copy-paste again? Do they have names?


    Testimony of 12-year-old Fahmi Zeydan: “Yahudi built our entire family facing the wall and started shooting. Only I survived, my sister Kadri, 4 years old, Sister Sami, 8 years old, brother Mohammed, 7 years old, because we were short and adults covered us with bodies. My mother and father, my grandfather and grandmother, my uncles and aunts and their children died. ”

    Testimony of 16-year-old Nani Khalil: “I saw a man chopping my neighbor Jamil Hish with a huge knife, right on the steps of his house, then killed my cousin Fati in the same way.” Nazra Assad, 36 years old: “I saw a man snatch a child out of the hands of my young neighbor Salhead Aiss, threw him to the ground and began to stomp with his feet. Then he raped her, and then killed both the mother and the child. "

    Safia Attiyah, forty years old: “The man attacked me, ripped off my clothes and began to rape me. Other women were raped next to me ... ”

    Shots still continued to sound from some houses, then the “Sterns” began to dynamize them along with the inhabitants.

    Zeynab Attiyah, 25, sister of the previous witness: “We, the group of women, among whom were pregnant, were driven into one courtyard. "How do you want to die?" - a Jew shouted to us in Arabic. One of the women fell to the ground in horror and began to kiss his feet, asking for mercy ... "

    Other witnesses indicated that there were surprisingly many women among the attackers and in their barbarism they were not inferior to men.


    The first to arrive at the scene of the tragedy was the Swiss Jacques de Reignier from the International Red Cross. Here he was assisted by one of the "Stern", whom he had at one time pulled out of the Nazi concentration camp. His testimonies are especially valuable, as they should be impartial: “I saw many young guys and girls, they were armed to the teeth with pistols, machine guns, grenades, very excited and all stained with blood ... it vividly reminded me of the actions of the SS commandos during the reprisals with the civilian population of Athens ... "
  27. Professor
    Professor 6 November 2013 10: 15
    -1
    Shahirizadu and I read. Let's get a list of victims. It’s simple, only 254 people.
  28. svp67
    svp67 6 November 2013 01: 50
    0
    First, Eli Arieli arrived with the Gadna group, then Shaltiel's adjutant Yeshu Schiff with armed guards. They saw many Arab corpses, while it seemed that "not one of the Muslims died with weapons in their hands."

    "Scoundrel!" - threw Schiff in the face of the commander of the Stern group. Terrorists gathered in the center of the village. Both groups stood face to face, clutching weapons. In front of all those present, Schiff reported in detail to Shaltiel about what he saw on the radio. “Disarm them! If they refuse, open fire! ” commanded Chaltiel.

    But it was too much for his adjutant, he could not shoot at his co-religionists. “I do not ask you whether you can or not! That's an order!" - Shaltiel shouted into the microphone. “David,” Schiff begged, “you will forever cover your name with brotherly blood.” The Jewish people will never forgive you ... "

    In the end, the executioners were ordered to "clean up after themselves." The bodies of the dead were dragged into a stone quarry, piled up in a pile, doused with gasoline and set on fire.


    ... The sickening smell of burnt human meat met members of the British Commission of Inquiry, who finally arrived at the scene of the tragedy. A few days later, its head, Sir Cutling, introduced Alan Cunningham under the heading "urgent and secret" his report No. 179.11.17.65, which contained numerous testimonies of victims and survivors, as well as the commission’s findings, which read: “... there is no doubt that numerous acts of atrocities, violence and simply killings were committed, including the killing of newborns and unborn babies.”

    http://www.litmir.net/br/?b=84206&p=23

    What you have forgotten is not forgotten in other countries ...
  29. Leopold s
    Leopold s 17 March 2014 01: 32
    0
    It breaks into a tear.
  30. svp67
    svp67 6 November 2013 01: 53
    0
    Quote: Professor
    So no names? Predictably ...

    Of course, since the story is very "dark" and not fully investigated. And it seems that not only the USSR is to blame for this tragedy, but Russia has to blame ...
  31. svp67
    svp67 6 November 2013 03: 09
    0
    Quote: Professor
    Are you here about the Aryans, race signs, etc. have begun.


    What is the biological component of a nation?
    The primary and simplest biological interpretation of a nation as a multiplied offspring of one family or even one genus, that is, as an intraspecific group of monophyletic origin, is obviously not true. The history of almost any nation demonstrates the polyphilitic nature of its original substrate, if only this history itself is sufficiently well studied and cannot be reduced to legendary mythological sources.
    The second biological interpretation essentially identifies a nation with a subrace, that is, it reduces the question to the presence of genetic markers that distinguish a given nation from other nations. This point of view has its own reasons, but, at the same time, it has significant limitations.
    Indeed, each “historically established” nation has its own characteristic anthropological type or, more precisely, a spectrum of anthropological types. Indeed, nations differ genetically. However, the genetic difference of nations is a statistical property rather than an individual one. In other words, each nation is characterized by its frequency of alleles (discrete alternative genetic traits), which distinguishes it from other nations. In another, say, neighboring nation, the frequency of occurrence of alleles will be different. But at the same time, although with a different frequency, they will be present. Roughly and simply, we can establish the genetic difference between a sample of thousands of Russians and thousands of Poles, but most likely we will not be able to determine by genetic characteristics whether an individual is a Pole or a Russian. Virtually any genetic trait found in one nation is found in the neighboring, but with a different frequency.

    http://www.contrtv.ru/common/3162
  32. Professor
    Professor 6 November 2013 10: 25
    +2
    Quote: svp67
    What is the biological component of a nation?

    And then the racial theory of the purity of the nation. Somewhere I already heard it ...
    Here are two representatives of one "beloved" nation, destroying your Nazi postulates:


  33. Leopold s
    Leopold s 17 March 2014 01: 28
    0
    By your logic, this is a crime of the British authorities
  34. svp67
    svp67 5 November 2013 22: 14
    +4
    Quote: Professor
    Is it about Vlasov’s army or Cossack divisions?

    In fact, those Wehrmacht and Luftwaffe soldiers are German citizens.
    Vlasov’s national composition was not known to me, but almost 100% of Jews were not among the Cossacks.
    But even if you’re talking about these traitors, then they didn’t fight for the Germans, but against the Bolsheviks. But the Jews in the 3rd Reich for and against whom they fought?
    The ISRAELI newspaper "Vesti" published a sensational material about 150 thousand Jewish soldiers and officers who fought in the Nazi army.

    Life often put them in absurd situations. One soldier with the Iron Cross on his chest came from the front to the Sachsenhausen concentration camp to visit his Jewish father there. The SS officer was shocked by this guest: "If it were not for the award on your uniform, you would quickly be where your father is."

    http://nvo.ng.ru/history/2002-09-20/5_gitler.html
  35. Professor
    Professor 5 November 2013 22: 19
    0
    Quote: svp67
    Actually, those Wehrmacht and Luftwaffe soldiers are German citizens

    Poor you read your teachers:
    4. (1) A Jew cannot be a Reich citizen. He is not entitled to vote on matters relating to politics. He cannot hold public office (...)

    Quote: svp67
    Vlasov’s national composition was not known to me, but almost 100% of Jews were not among the Cossacks.

    There were definitely no Jews there; your brothers immediately put them to the wall.
  36. svp67
    svp67 5 November 2013 22: 41
    +2
    Quote: Professor
    Poor you read your teachers:
    4. (1) A Jew cannot be a Reich citizen. He is not entitled to vote on matters relating to politics. He cannot hold public office (...)


    Yes, it seems that this topic is not in your honor there ...
    The term "mishlinge" in the Reich called people born from mixed marriages of Aryans with non-Aryans. The racial laws of 1935 were distinguished between “mishlinge” of the first degree (one of the parents is Jewish) and the second degree (grandmother or grandfather are Jews). Despite the legal "spoiling" of people with Jewish genes and despite the bitter propaganda, tens of thousands of "mishlinge" quietly lived under the Nazis. They were routinely called in Wehrmacht, Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine, becoming not only soldiers, but also part of the generals at the level of regiment commanders, divisions and armies.

    Hundreds of "mishlinge" were awarded for bravery Iron Crosses. Twenty soldiers and officers of Jewish origin were awarded the highest military award of the Third Reich - Knight's Cross. However, many veterans of the Wehrmacht complained that the authorities were reluctant to submit to orders and were promoted to rank, bearing in mind their Jewish ancestors.



    = professor. There were definitely no Jews there; your brothers immediately put them to the wall.


    But where do we go before Leo Bronstein, and remind you how many Jews were in the Cheka and the NKVD and their role in the repression?
    So let's stop this silly topic.
  37. Professor
    Professor 5 November 2013 22: 53
    0
    Quote: svp67
    Yes, it seems that this topic is not in your honor there ...

    You save pastes from cheap newsstands for yourself. I, unlike you, speak German and read these laws of yours in the original source.

    Quote: svp67
    But where do we go before Leo Bronstein, and remind you how many Jews were in the Cheka and the NKVD and their role in the repression?

    Let's start as usual with Solzhenitsyn’s lists.

    Quote: svp67
    So let's stop this silly topic.

    And you wouldn’t have started it, then you wouldn’t look as stupid as “with true Aryans”, “freckles” and “sabra da shatilla”.

    PS
    Remind us of Trotsky, and then I will remind you who saved the military and indeed who created the Red Army.
  38. svp67
    svp67 6 November 2013 02: 03
    +2
    Quote: Professor
    Remind us of Trotsky, and then I will remind you who saved the military and indeed who created the Red Army.

    And to remind you by WHAT methods he FORCED military experts and ordinary people to serve in the Red Army? About his bodyguard of 300 Chinese ... And how they helped him "create" the Red Army.
  39. svp67
    svp67 6 November 2013 02: 34
    +1
    Quote: Professor
    And you wouldn’t have started it, then you wouldn’t look as stupid as “with true Aryans”, “freckles” and “sabra da shatilla”.

    By denying the crime you yourself side with the criminals.

    Events developed as follows. On August 23, Lebanon's new president, Bashir Gemayel, was elected, who came from a wealthy influential clan. Exactly three weeks passed, and on September 14 at 16 hours 10 minutes the headquarters of his party Kataib was blown up. All three floors collapsed and buried the entire party leadership. In the evening of the same day, among the dead, the mutilated body of the young president was identified (he was only 34 years old).

    Officially, neither the customers nor the perpetrators of this crime have been identified, but it is clear who took advantage of the current situation, the Israelis. Already at 0 a.m. on September 30, General Amir Drori was ordered to establish control over all the important points in West Beirut. It was stated that a “dangerous vacuum of power” had developed in Beirut and that “the Israeli side will in no way allow terrorists to return.” Since military units had already been evacuated, no serious resistance was offered to Israeli soldiers. All designated points were taken, and for the first time in all five wars, Israeli authorities established control over the Arab capital.

    The two largest Palestinian refugee camps - Sabra and Shatila - were also surrounded, but the troops stopped along their outer perimeter and did not enter.

    Israeli generals entrusted the “mopping up” of the camps to their unspoken allies, the Lebanese right-Christian militia, which had “its own accounts” with the Palestinians since the civil war of 1975-1976. “Deir Yasin” was repeated again, but it lasted not 4 hours, but 40 (during September 16 and 17), the performers were different, and there were more victims. According to the most cautious estimates, 1000 people were killed, and according to Palestinian sources, from 3 to 5 thousand, mostly old people, women, children.

    In the era of television and space communications, it was impossible to hide this crime. Shocking pictures and television reports flew around the world, causing legitimate indignation and indignation of all people of goodwill.
  40. Professor
    Professor 6 November 2013 10: 19
    +2
    Quote: svp67
    By denying the crime you yourself side with the criminals.

    Look who's Talking! Who besides Israel investigated this crime? Who was punished besides the Israelites?
  41. svp67
    svp67 6 November 2013 02: 35
    +1
    The Lebanese war had ended by this time: counting from June 6 to September 16, it lasted exactly 100 days, and not 100 hours, as, say, in 1956. Gradually, the Israelis began to withdraw their troops from the capital of Lebanon, and another “debriefing” began in their homeland.

    US Secretary of State George Schulz, and then President Reagan himself, condemned the actions of the Israeli authorities in unusually harsh terms. Those, in turn, began to make excuses that they did not instruct the Lebanese phalanxists of any killings, but only asked "to comb the camps and collect the weapons there."

    Then Begin’s office made a special statement and, in an unprecedented gesture, paid for its publication on the paid ads page in the leading American newspaper The New York Times. This was done so that the general public would understand, "that as soon as the army found out about the tragic events, Israeli soldiers put an end to the killings and forced the Lebanese unit to clear the camps."

    But the audience continued to ask the same question: why did they find out so late and why did they intervene so late?

    The tanks and armored personnel carriers of the Israelis occupied all the exits and entrances to the camps, their main observation post was on the roof of a seven-story building where the UN mission used to be located. Journalist Ray Wilkinson was not too lazy to measure the distance from this NP to the entrance to Sabra - just 250 steps. “How could their military, having such powerful binoculars and tank optics, not see what was happening inside for forty hours?” For two nights in a row, the Israelis launched lightning rockets, which more likely helped the pursuers rather than the persecuted. Only at six in the morning on Saturday, September 18, armored vehicles moved forward. The anesthetist, Englishman David Gray, who was at that time in the Gaza hospital, testified: “I had the impression that many of their officers were sincerely dejected by what they saw and undoubtedly sought to end the killings.”

    Later, Ray Wilkinson directly asked the then Chief of General Staff, Rafael Eitan, why phalanxists were allowed to commit such acts of bloody revenge against the Palestinians. “We do not give orders to the phalangists, and we are not responsible for their actions,” the general replied dryly.

    In the end, Begin’s exasperated press office responded in the sense: “that none of the Israelites discharged their weapons into unfortunate Palestinian women and children, and why didn’t anyone blame the Lebanese Christian police, but fell upon us?”
  42. In the reeds
    In the reeds 6 November 2013 23: 06
    0
    Life is a road of disappointment, but I didn’t think about you like that.
  43. svp67
    svp67 6 November 2013 02: 36
    0
    But the world media nevertheless came to an unambiguous conclusion: the massacre in Beirut was the work of the Lebanese Christian police, armed and supported by the Israeli military authorities.

    ... It was a Saturday, in Jewish “Shabbat”, but in Tel Aviv, on the Kings of Israel, a crowd of 400.000 people gathered, that is, every tenth inhabitant of this country.

    They constituted the largest demonstration in the name of peace in the history of this state, but the most important thing: they all came to demonstrate in favor of their adversary - the Palestinians - victims of the tragedy of Sabra and Shatila. They demanded the resignation of Prime Minister Menahim Begin and the punishment of Minister of War Ariel Sharon. Is this not a sign of the vitality and normal state of Israeli society?

    Posters in the hands of demonstrators read: “Sharon is the killer” and “Stop the Monster - Stop the monster!”

    It was a point of view on one side.

    On the other hand, Begin answered them: “The Goyim is killed by the Goyim, and they want to hang it on the Jews ?!” (Decoding: translated from Hebrew “goyim” means “infidels.”) Such was his reaction to these events. Of course, this was the point of view of the extreme right. Slightly less right-wingers declared the following: "Arabs who kill Arabs are preferable to Arabs who kill Jews."

    Finally, in February 1983, another government commission completed its investigation and published a 108-page “report.” It contained the conclusion that Minister of War Sharon was “indirectly responsible” for what happened in Sabra and Shatil. But he did not want to resign, and Begin refused to fire him. Once again, a wave of “pro” and “counter” demonstrations began on the streets of Tel Aviv. And if some demonstrators carried the posters “Arik, you're right,” others waved the slogans “Sharon, you must be judged.” And if some declared: “Instead of thanking Sharon, they try to bleed him,” others shouted to their opponents, calling for help from the Führer: “Hitler killed 6 million Jews. It’s a pity that he didn’t grab you too! ” The case went so far that someone threw a military grenade at the demonstrators who opposed Sharon. Emil Greenweig, 33, died from Romania, who had served as a paratrooper in Lebanon six months before. Among the several wounded was the mentioned Abram Burg, who from a reserve officer turned into a "dove of peace." Investigators did not find the "bomber", but at least they did not guess to "hang" this case on the Arabs. After this, the passions subsided somewhat.

    http://www.litmir.net/br/?b=84206&p=80
  44. Leopold s
    Leopold s 17 March 2014 01: 41
    0
    Goim means - peoples
  45. Witold
    Witold 6 November 2013 00: 37
    +2
    Does this mean something to you?

    Jews - Heroes of the Soviet Union. A bit of arithmetic


    http://nnm.me/blogs/s_elk10/evrei_geroi_sovetskogo_soyuza_nemnogo_arifmetiki/

  46. svp67
    svp67 6 November 2013 02: 04
    0
    Quote: Vitold
    Little arithmetic

    And what did you mean by that?
  47. svp67
    svp67 6 November 2013 02: 47
    +1
    Quote: Vitold
    Does this mean something to you?
    Jews - Heroes of the Soviet Union. A bit of arithmetic

    He speaks. The fact that in my multinational country all nations and nationalities defended the homeland.
    But there are questions to the article ...
    The number of Jews who fought in the ranks of the Soviet Army, according to various estimates, ranges from 400 to 500 thousand people. I have not found a single "official" estimate, so I will give an "unofficial" one. So, let's take a figure of 500 thousand.
    Why not 400? That then arithmetic will begin to give different results, showing that the "God-chosen nation" fought like everyone else ...
  48. Leopold s
    Leopold s 17 March 2014 01: 35
    0
    What armies, divisions? This is crackling propaganda
  • Anatole Klim
    Anatole Klim 5 November 2013 13: 43
    +2
    Quote: svp67
    how much is "Jewish" in these girls?

    You are right, but the descendants of the ancient Jews, modern Muslim Palestinian women.
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 5 November 2013 13: 58
      +2
      Quote: Anatol Klim
      You are right, but the descendants of the ancient Jews, modern Muslim Palestinian women.

      What? 8) In the collapse of the nook?
      1. Anatole Klim
        Anatole Klim 5 November 2013 14: 08
        +3
        Quote: Pimply
        collapsed from the block?

        He really collapsed when he read the book by Tel Aviv University professor Shlomo Zanda "Who and How Invented the Jewish People." According to the theory of this respected professor, modern Palestinians have Jewish roots and, in fact, are descendants of ancient Jews, and modern Jewish repatriates are terribly far from their ancient roots and are proselytes.
        1. viruskvartirus
          viruskvartirus 5 November 2013 17: 30
          +2
          What's so surprising? History is full of mysteries and oddities. For example, "Ancient skulls found in Georgia questioned early human evolution" http://podrobnosti.ua/technologies/2013/10/18/937121.html and I also read the legend about Samson and there he let foxes with tails with burning rags), does not resemble anything))?
        2. Pimply
          Pimply 5 November 2013 17: 42
          +1
          Quote: Anatol Klim
          He really collapsed when he read the book by Tel Aviv University professor Shlomo Zanda "Who and How Invented the Jewish People." According to the theory of this respected professor, modern Palestinians have Jewish roots and, in fact, are descendants of ancient Jews, and modern Jewish repatriates are terribly far from their ancient roots and are proselytes.


          Professor Bartal of the University of Jerusalem rated Zand's thesis as a typical conspiracy theory, and also pointed out errors that were unacceptable to the historian, for example, the use of a satirical pamphlet as an authentic historical document.

          And there are a lot of weighty arguments from various scientists. Zand is known for his leftist and communist views, quite tendentious

          Here is the main criticism:
          The historical thesis that Jews is a group of proselytes was criticized by Professor Anita Shapira. In particular, Zand argued that Ashkenazi were Khazars who accepted Judaism, and Sephardi were Berbers who accepted Judaism. Shapira indicates that people from the Khazars make up no more than 20% of Ashkenazi, and the Berbers were a very small group. [17]
          Modern, in particular published in the 2010 year, results of genetic research [24] [25] state that:
          The Jewish population everywhere forms groups that are genetically close to European and Middle Eastern groups;
          Jewish communities around the world discover a common origin;
          The specific genome regions of the Jews of different countries are common to the entire Jewish population;
          It is possible to establish a time scale for the spatial divergence of different groups of Jews;
          The discrepancy between European and Middle Eastern Jews took place 100-150 generations, that is, about 2500 years ago and refers to the time of the Babylonian exile;
          The "Khazar hypothesis" is finally closed, since the full contribution of the Khazars to East European Jewry is less than 12,5%;
          There is an opportunity to obtain information about the "founders" of the people - male and female, the number of which is extremely small;
          Available data indicate the importance of the “founders” effect. Genetic studies deny proselytism as any significant factor in the formation of the Jewish people.
          1. Anatole Klim
            Anatole Klim 5 November 2013 19: 17
            0
            Quote: Pimply
            Professor Bartal of the University of Jerusalem rated Zand’s thesis as a typical conspiracy theory

            I am not surprised that the theory of Professor Zand was sharply criticized in Israel, even to the point of declaring him a conspirator and a communist, because he encroached on the holy ideology of Zionism. If you are sure that the Ethiopian, Bukhara, highland, Georgian ... Jews came from the forefather of Moses, then, as not a specialist in genetics, I dare not argue with you, but even in the guide to Israel it is written that 85% of Palestinians have Jewish the roots. And they cause me sympathy - crowds of obscure people arrived who called themselves Jews and say - move in is my Holy Land, now we are the masters! Somehow it’s not good (he said softer).
            1. Pimply
              Pimply 5 November 2013 19: 22
              +1
              Quote: Anatol Klim
              I am not surprised that the theory of Professor Zand was sharply criticized in Israel, even to the point of declaring him a conspirator and communist, because he encroached on the holy ideology of Zionism. If you are sure that the Ethiopian, Bukhara, highland, Georgian ... Jews came from the forefather of Moses, then I, as not a specialist in genetics, dare to argue with you, however, even in the guide to Israel it is written that 85% of Palestinians are Jewish the roots. And they cause me sympathy - crowds of obscure people arrived who called themselves Jews and say - move in is my Holy Land, now we are the masters! Something bad (softer said).

              a) Theory
              b) A theory built largely on inferences. Have you read a book? He deduces this by ignoring or adjusting some documents to his conclusions convenient for him, ignoring others, and not using the results of modern research.
            2. Lopatov
              Lopatov 5 November 2013 19: 44
              +1
              Are you not from Ukraine? Only there are not as sure of the "racial purity" of other peoples as they are sure of their own. Listen to the local people - Russians - Finno-Ugrians, Belarusians - Balts, and only they themselves are completely R1a1
            3. In the reeds
              In the reeds 6 November 2013 23: 31
              0
              Yes Goim never meant infidels, just not Jews. and all But you yourself do not want to be them. And right and not necessary. According to the Torah, even the most holy non-Jewish womanish woman needs to light at least one match on Shabbat, you will not understand, so we must not rule the world, just follow this. Are trying
      2. Leopold s
        Leopold s 17 March 2014 01: 43
        0
        Genetics refuted his theory
    2. 3.7.964
      3.7.964 5 November 2013 14: 37
      0
      Quote: Pimply
      What? 8) In the collapse of the nook?

      Have a cup of coffee and calm down. You are so worried, Yes and yes, child sin is not far in your pants. Do not boast. We will do everything as you want .... As the UN decided, it will be so ... in your dreams. And free the territory .... from Polestins. And we’ll eat ice cream .. but we won’t give you out of harm ..... Have you finished your coffee? Dopil. Let me tie you the sleeves of the shirt on the back. Like this. Don't you press?
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 5 November 2013 15: 35
        +1
        Quote: 3.7.964
        Have a cup of coffee and calm down. You are so worried, Yes and yes, child sin is not far in your pants. Do not boast. We will do everything as you want .... As the UN decided, it will be so ... in your dreams. And free the territory .... from Polestins. And we’ll eat ice cream .. but we won’t give you out of harm ..... Have you finished your coffee? Dopil. Let me tie you the sleeves of the shirt on the back. Like this. Don't you press?

        Pupsik, if we have already switched to you, the light of your ignorance can illuminate the world. Go work as a power plant - save Ukraine from the energy crisis.
        1. 3.7.964
          3.7.964 5 November 2013 17: 20
          -4
          Quote: Pimply
          Go work as a power plant - save Ukraine from the energy crisis.

          Did your roommates tell you this? By the way, there must still be those who drowned on the Titanic, the captain, and the most important one in that chamber. But you are entitled to increased nutrition in the form of droppers. If not for these droppers, you flew around the place like a butterfly, and would have caught you with a net in the shape of a straitjacket. laughing
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 5 November 2013 17: 43
            +2
            Quote: 3.7.964
            Did your roommates tell you this? By the way, there must still be those who drowned on the Titanic, the captain, and the most important one in that chamber. But you are entitled to increased nutrition in the form of droppers. If not for these droppers, you flew around the place like a butterfly, and would have caught you with a net in the shape of a straitjacket.

            Baby, I don't feed the trolls. Shine with illiteracy, save Ukraine - you need to reduce dependence on coal and gas, and switch to environmentally friendly renewable energy: ignorance and illiteracy.
          2. 3.7.964
            3.7.964 5 November 2013 17: 50
            -2
            Quote: Pimply
            . Shine with illiteracy, save Ukraine

            Zhenya! And the Palestinian people, unlike you, did not abandon their native land. And I don’t intend to give it to any invaders of invaders, under any circumstances.
          3. Pimply
            Pimply 5 November 2013 17: 59
            +1
            Quote: 3.7.964
            Zhenya! And the Palestinian people, unlike you, did not abandon their native land. And I don’t intend to give it to any invaders of invaders, under any circumstances.

            Dityatko, you are ridiculous in your attempts to play with adults. 8)
          4. 3.7.964
            3.7.964 5 November 2013 19: 14
            0
            Quote: Pimply
            Dityatko, you are ridiculous in your attempts to play with adults. 8)

            Both-on! Deja vu! You repeat, it already was, getting old, eh, even the Giants of thought are subject to aging. It's time to retire!
          5. Pimply
            Pimply 5 November 2013 19: 23
            +2
            Quote: 3.7.964
            Both-on! Deja vu! You repeat, it already was, getting old, eh, even the Giants of thought are subject to aging. It's time to retire!

            8) Even funnier
      2. In the reeds
        In the reeds 6 November 2013 01: 27
        +1
        Everywhere and always has been and will be the "Palestinian people", do not hesitate, and you ... Do not take off from this. And you will pay for double standards in double, otherwise how can you explain to them about the Israeli occupants, than you will be better than us. How to convince a Chinese or Mongolian that this small country is your home ...
  • Mature naturalist
    Mature naturalist 5 November 2013 22: 45
    +1

    Yes. They also say that you are forcibly injecting contraceptives to such Jewish women.
  • 3.7.964
    3.7.964 5 November 2013 11: 35
    +2
    Quote: Katsin1
    Russian peasants in the 19th century who moved whole villages to Judaism and moved to Israel

    I speak on behalf of the staff of the Kiryat Takhat sewing factory. True, they close us. We, the whole team of seamstresses, unanimously decided to choose Comrade. Katsin1 Komsomol. We trust him, under the guidance of a senior comrade of the professor, to carry out Judo-propaganda work on AX. laughing
    1. pensioner
      pensioner 5 November 2013 13: 06
      +2
      Quote: 3.7.964
      We trust him, under the guidance of a senior comrade of the professor, to carry out Judo-propaganda work on AX.

      That's it ... Kirdyk your final Kiryat-Tahat sewing factory will come. Not kosher will be ...
    2. Mature naturalist
      Mature naturalist 5 November 2013 22: 53
      +4
      Quote: 3.7.964
      unanimously decided to choose comrade Katsin1 Komsomol

      While in vivo, then posthumously
  • ka5280
    ka5280 5 November 2013 11: 55
    +3
    And in the 19th century, Israel already existed, and the Pale of Settlement has already been canceled? Can you give the name of these villages as an example? You remind me of the Baltic states with your frantic Russophobia.
    1. Professor
      Professor 5 November 2013 12: 09
      +3
      Quote: ka5280
      And in the 19th century, Israel already existed, and the Pale of Settlement has already been canceled? Can you give the name of these villages as an example? You remind me of the Baltic states with your frantic Russophobia.

      Read, learn, maybe this will help you.
      Russian roots of the heroes of Israel

      Jewish Subbotniks in Russia and Israel

      How Russian peasants became heroes of Israel
  • Djozz
    Djozz 5 November 2013 17: 47
    0
    Help is possible! Something I can’t believe that the Russian peasants fell into Judaism all at once in order to be imbued with the “wisdom of the Jews” and dump them into a state that was not on the map.
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 5 November 2013 18: 10
      +1
      Quote: Djozz
      Help is possible! Something I can’t believe that the Russian peasants fell into Judaism all at once in order to be imbued with the “wisdom of the Jews” and dump them into a state that was not on the map.

      Enter the search for subbotniks.

      At the end of the 18th century, the religious movement of “Subbotniks” arose in Russia, the distinguishing character of which was the observance of the Sabbath. The beginning of the spread of this movement in Russia dates back to the reign of Catherine II. Until the end of the 1820-s, subbotniks were concentrated mainly in the provinces of Voronezh (in the districts of Pavlovsky and Bobrovsky in 1818 there were 503 people, and in 1823 there were 3771), Oryol, Moscow, Tula, Saratov. After the government events 1806, 1825 (when the decree of the synod “On measures to avert the spread of the Jewish sect called Subbotniks” - P.S. 3, vol. XL, No. 30436a) and 1826 were issued Subbotniks, who openly recognized their belonging to this religious movement, were evicted to the foothills of the Caucasus, Transcaucasia and the Irkutsk, Tobolsk, Yenisei provinces of Siberia.

      From the very beginning of the XIX century. Subbotniks come into contact with Ashkenazi Jews living outside the Pale of Settlement, and with Crimean Karaites. At the end of XIX - the first half of XX century. in almost every community of subbotniks (judaists) there lived Jews who performed the duties of teachers, shoikhetes, rabbis. On the other hand, in many Jewish communities outside the Pale of Settlement, Jewish believers who resettled in cities were accepted as full members. However, complete assimilation of the Jewish Ashkenazi Jews did not happen: by marrying the Ashkenazi and Mountain Jews, considering themselves part of the Jewish people, the Jewish faithful retained their special group identity. This is manifested, in particular, in the self-names of “hera” or “geyrim” (they are often used by subbotniks to distinguish themselves from “natural Jews”) and in the narrative practices of modern ger and subbotniks, which contrast their commitment to religion with insufficient zeal, from their point of view observance of the "law" or even atheism of modern Jews. These and other features of the Jewish group’s self-consciousness are often perceived by modern Russian or Israeli Jews (especially those who are far from religion) as a sign of “sectarianism”.
    2. igor67
      igor67 5 November 2013 18: 15
      +4
      Quote: Djozz
      Help is possible! Something I can’t believe that the Russian peasants fell into Judaism all at once in order to be imbued with the “wisdom of the Jews” and dump them into a state that was not on the map.

      http://guide-israel.ru/attractions/43762-usadba-dubrovina/. Вчера был там с женой,, рядом заповедник где отдыхают перелетные птицы, как раз были тысячи журавлей.
      1. Djozz
        Djozz 5 November 2013 18: 58
        -2
        It turns out the state of Israel was formed in the 19th century, and not in the year 48 of the 20th century! And where did Palestine go?
        1. Professor
          Professor 5 November 2013 19: 06
          +2
          Quote: Djozz
          It turns out the state of Israel was formed in the 19th century, and not in the year 48 of the 20th century! And where did Palestine go?

          Indeed, where did Palestine go? request In general, has it ever existed?
        2. igor67
          igor67 5 November 2013 19: 25
          +1
          Quote: Djozz
          It turns out the state of Israel was formed in the 19th century, and not in the year 48 of the 20th century! And where did Palestine go?

          For example, the Egged bus company was organized in 33 from 4 ex companies that were organized at the beginning of the 20 century and are one hundred or more years old, and there are so many very modern companies that are more than a hundred years old,
          1. atalef
            atalef 5 November 2013 21: 02
            +1
            Quote: igor67
            For example, the Egged bus company was organized in 33 from 4 ex companies that were organized at the beginning of the 20 century and are one hundred or more years old, and there are so many very modern companies that are more than a hundred years old,

            A Israeli Electric Company in 1923 r
            The company was founded in 29 on March 1923, Pinhus (Peter Moiseevich) Rutenberg (who was educated at the St. Petersburg Institute of Technology), with the support of the Minister of the Colonies Winston Churchill, received a concession for electricity production. Then the first power station appeared, and electricity came first to Tel Aviv, and then to Haifa, Tiberias and other cities.

            By the way, Peter Rutenberg was a member of the Socialist-Revolutionary Party and it was he who caught (in Finland) and hanged (by the sentence of the Socialist-Revolutionary court) the famous priest Gapon - secret police agent and traitor of the 1905 revolution of the year.
      2. atalef
        atalef 5 November 2013 20: 57
        +2
        Quote: igor67
        . Yesterday I was there with my wife, near a nature reserve where migratory birds rest, there were just thousands of cranes.

        The last subbotniks from Russia to Israel arrived in 90. Eni lived at the absorption center in Kiryat Yama. you will not believe, purely Slavic faces. Moms in scarves and skirts. Subbotniks also have the right to repatriation to Israel.
        1. igor67
          igor67 5 November 2013 21: 00
          +3
          Quote: atalef
          Quote: igor67
          . Yesterday I was there with my wife, near a nature reserve where migratory birds rest, there were just thousands of cranes.

          The last subbotniks from Russia to Israel arrived in 90. Eni lived at the absorption center in Kiryat Yama. you will not believe, purely Slavic faces. Moms in scarves and skirts. Subbotniks also have the right to repatriation to Israel.

          Hi San, not in 200 ... I don’t remember where the last village from Russia repatriated, but there were problems because of mixed marriages
          1. atalef
            atalef 5 November 2013 21: 06
            +2
            Quote: igor67
            Hi San, not in 200 ... I don’t remember where the last village from Russia repatriated, but there were problems because of mixed marriages

            You are probably more right, because In Kiryat Yam I moved to 2001, they still lived there.
            1. igor67
              igor67 5 November 2013 21: 17
              +2
              Quote: atalef
              Quote: igor67
              Hi San, not in 200 ... I don’t remember where the last village from Russia repatriated, but there were problems because of mixed marriages

              You are probably more right, because In Kiryat Yam I moved to 2001, they still lived there.

              For some reason, before the formation of Israel, everyone did not give a damn about the territory except Jerusalem, from a religious point of view, this is the territory of malaria swamps and deserts, there were practically no trees, the Turks still cut down for locomotives, that's what Israel
              1. atalef
                atalef 5 November 2013 21: 40
                +2
                Quote: igor67
                For some reason, before the formation of Israel, somehow everyone did not give a damn about the territory except Jerusalem, from a religious point of view, this is the territory of malaria swamps and deserts

                Yes, if you know. then, for the construction of the railway, the Turks brought from Sudan a whole tribe of Aborigines (their descendants - also Arabs - live in the village of Jissel al-Zarqa (near Caesarea) - only because they have natural immunity to malaria, because all coastal part of Israel was a continuous swamp (By the way, these swamps went to Haifa, and opposite the place where these Sudanese people lived in Zikhron Jacob - the first settlers - Jews arrived at the beginning of 1900, over a year more than 70% died of malaria, they drained these swamps , now there are the best vineyards in Israel) and so, what is interesting are these Sudanese (for export their Turks were considered in Sudan a tribe of slaves) so the local Arabs (Israeli 0 for more than 100 years completely ignore them, marrying them is a taboo, because they are descendants of slaves. Although they seem to be Muslims.
                Israel is the only country in the world. where the forest area is increasing year by year. and cutting down a tree is almost a criminal offense. even if it grows in your area. When laying roads. it is forbidden to cut trees. but only transplant
                1. igor67
                  igor67 5 November 2013 21: 51
                  +2
                  [quote = atalef] [quote = igor67] For some reason, before the founding of Israel, somehow everyone did not give a damn about the territory except Jerusalem, from a religious point of view, this is the territory of malaria swamps and deserts [/ quote]
                  Yes, if you know. then for the construction of the railway, the Turks brought from Sudan a whole tribe of Aborigines (their descendants - also Arabs - live in the village of Jissel al-Zarqa (near Caesarea) - only because they have natural immunity to malaria, because all coastal part of Israel was a continuous swamp (By the way, these swamps went up to Haifa, and opposite the place where these Sudanese people lived in Zikhron Jacob - the first settlers - Jews arrived in early 1900, more than 70% died of malaria in a year, they drained these swamps , now there are the best vineyards in Israel) and so, what is interesting are these Sudanese (by the export of them by the Turks. They were considered in Sudan a tribe of slaves) and
                  I know this village along the 4 highway, swamps are also in the north along the Jordan River, the same people died from malaria while the swamps were drained, until now mosquitoes are sprayed every year,
                  1. atalef
                    atalef 5 November 2013 21: 57
                    +2
                    Quote: igor67
                    I know this village along the 4 highway, swamps are also in the north along the Jordan River, the same people died from malaria while the swamps were drained, until now mosquitoes are sprayed every year,

                    Well, in general, the whole north (Hula Valley), and Tel Aviv also has swamps and sands.
  • smersh70
    smersh70 5 November 2013 11: 57
    -1
    Quote: svp67
    Where are you guys from?

    ..from Michigan ........ wassat
    1. svp67
      svp67 5 November 2013 13: 23
      +1
      Quote: smersh70
      from Michigan ...

      Maybe, but in 1967 a lot of "Scandinavian" Jews came to Israel, perhaps this is one of them ...
  • In the reeds
    In the reeds 5 November 2013 21: 45
    +2
    And you look at me, a Jew with blue eyes and blond hair. Belarusian I don’t know how to explain it. There are completely black, there are completely white, but yes you have a teapot. Dlb
  • Professor
    Professor 5 November 2013 10: 31
    +2
    The diplomats of these countries have repeatedly tried to negotiate with the Israeli authorities on the issue of returning the lands taken back in 1967. However, Israel categorically rejected the proposals coming from its neighbors, forcing the Arabs to take extreme measures and sign the so-called "rule of three" no ", which implies refusal of negotiations, recognition and peace with the Jewish state.

    With accuracy on a turn. Arabs are still not ready to sit at the negotiating table with Israel, and even more so then. Sadat was publicly shot for this. I do not read further the article when there is a desire to read fiction, I read the Strugatsky.
  • regdan
    regdan 5 November 2013 10: 44
    +1
    This war is already in the past. In the present, lessons must be learned in this war. In the future, you need to sit at the negotiating table so that the past does not happen again.
  • makarov
    makarov 5 November 2013 11: 41
    +3
    "..At the same time (March 14, 1976, to be exact) Sadat announced the break of the treaty with the USSR on friendship and cooperation. Within one month, all Soviet military services left the country."

    Then Sadat betrayed Syria.
  • viruskvartirus
    viruskvartirus 5 November 2013 12: 10
    +4
    By the way, an interesting fact "PT-76 tanks participated on both sides in the Yom Kippur War of 1973. On the night of October 16, Israeli PT-76s began an operation that became a turning point in the war. 7 tanks and 8 BTR-50P with motorized infantry from 11- The XNUMXst Reserve Tank Brigade of Colonel El Gonen crossed into the northern part of Bolshoy Gorky Lake to its western shore and seized a bridgehead in the area of ​​Abu-Sultan station. " this is for opponents of floating technology. Well, it turns out that Russian weapons rescued Israel then smile wink.
  • Ross
    Ross 5 November 2013 12: 20
    +4
    Quote: Nayhas
    Quote: smersh70
    and it was possible to produce cars ... televisions .. to improve the lives of Soviet citizens and live right now better than any Europe .... and the USSR would not fall apart ... such a huge country ... a powerful economy .... and it was impractical to use ......it's a pity......

    Come on ... USSR could save only the gradual introduction of private property at the same time at the beginning of the 70, when oil prices jumped, in general, China is a prime example ....

    Private property without strict control of society only leads to collapse. It develops greed and selfishness in most "owners". This is her nature.
  • Pimply
    Pimply 5 November 2013 12: 32
    +3
    It is worth noting that the weapons supplied by the United States did not manage to enter the troops during the war itself.
    1. Professor
      Professor 5 November 2013 12: 39
      +1
      Quote: Pimply
      It is worth noting that the weapons supplied by the United States did not manage to enter the troops during the war itself.

      There were exceptions. So, in the Golan, the paratroopers were rearmed at the end of the war on the M-16. They brought boxes with rifles and just handed out. There was a plastic cap on the barrel of the rifle, and from the fighters at the beginning, the fathers-commanders demanded that they protect the barrel in this way. laughing
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 5 November 2013 13: 05
        +2
        Quote: Professor
        There were exceptions. So, in the Golan, the paratroopers were rearmed at the end of the war on the M-16. They brought boxes with rifles and just handed out. There was a plastic cap on the barrel of the rifle, and from the fighters at the beginning, the fathers-commanders demanded that they protect the barrel in this way.


        Yes, it was worth adding - in the bulk. But the tanks did not have time to assemble and train personnel.
        1. Professor
          Professor 5 November 2013 13: 14
          +2
          Quote: Pimply
          But the tanks did not have time to assemble and train personnel.

          Now "connoisseurs of history" will come running and they will unanimously tell how American tankmen and American pilots fought for Israel.
  • Kars
    Kars 5 November 2013 14: 12
    +4
    Quite interesting. But the photo is few. The Centurions pleased, although some had to be recognized by the tracks.
  • Federal
    Federal 5 November 2013 14: 27
    -1
    With all due respect to the IDF, we must admit that they were on the verge of a catastrophe, if it were not for the suppression of the air defense of the Arabians by American high-tech things, this would be the final, the attack was well planned by the owls. advisers, let’s say this is a draw in which the Jews were very lucky ....
    1. smprofi
      smprofi 5 November 2013 15: 11
      +2
      Quote: Federal
      if it weren’t for the suppression of Arab air defense by American high-tech things,

      confuse nothing with 82nd and Bekaa valley?
      Quote: Federal
      the offensive was well planned by the owls. advisers

      Well, well, the Soviet Union has nothing to do with this war. in the sense of its beginning and unleashing. nafig it was not necessary.
    2. Pimply
      Pimply 5 November 2013 15: 32
      +3
      Quote: Federal
      With all due respect to the IDF, we must admit that they were on the verge of a catastrophe, if it were not for the suppression of the air defense of the Arabians by American high-tech things, this would be the final, the attack was well planned by the owls. advisers, let’s say this is a draw in which the Jews were very lucky ....
      Story. Start learning history.
      1. smprofi
        smprofi 5 November 2013 16: 00
        +2
        Quote: Pimply
        Start learning

        recourse
        it's hard ...
  • smprofi
    smprofi 5 November 2013 15: 04
    +3
    article is relatively good, but not without sin
    The glorious Israeli aviation suffered defeat after defeat, having lost more than eighty aircraft in just three days.

    here it should be noted that this is the merit of the Strela-2 MANPADS. the Israelis left for ultra-small air defense systems, but ran into "Strela", which was a surprise to them.
    and sixty-nine of them, due to errors and misunderstandings, were shot down "by their own" air defense forces

    and this, again, is largely the merit of Soviet MANPADS: the "glorious Arab warriors" confused the MiG-21 with the Israeli Mirage in an easy way





    and just "glorious Arab anti-aircraft gunners" gave thrush ... a school friend just at that time was living in Egypt with his parents (his father was building some kind of plant). Well, when the war began, they decided to evacuate all foreigners. and now people are sitting at the airport, waiting for their turn. at dusk a Bulgarian passenger starts to take off. and then the Arabs begin to sandwich it. as the comrade said: yes, it is beautiful, in the rays of the setting sun, tracers hit the plane. "beautiful", if not for the thought that the next plane is theirs. but the "glorious Arab anti-aircraft gunners" are glorious because it is good that they did not hit. Well, they no longer fired on the Soviet side.

    It was also indicative that almost half of the armored vehicles were destroyed by Egyptian helicopters armed with ATGMs

    hmm. on the contrary, I heard back in the late 70s about the successes of Israeli GPs. although now I’ve gotten a little bit of tyranny, it is claimed that the Israelis didn’t have a GP with ATGM in the Doomsday War. but the Arabs did not have GPs with ATGM either.
    1. smprofi
      smprofi 5 November 2013 15: 06
      +1
      and the Israeli squadron, which was always considered “invincible,” could not help in any way, since the Egyptian air defense forces worked flawlessly.

      Of course, they worked flawlessly ... Soviet crews. with his father, two colonels served at the Academy, who commanded the 73rd batteries of the Kvadrat air defense missile system (export name "Cube"). one had 28 shot down on his personal account, the other - 37.

      Losses on both sides have grown so much that the additional “arms” from interested “benefactors” could no longer be dispensed with. Frankly speaking, if it were not for US help, the outcome of the October war would hardly have been so favorable for Israel.

      not very familiar with the amount of help gringo. I can say that the MiG-73 was driven to the Arabs through our airfield (YUGV) in the fall of 21. only pilots were ferried to us from the Union. after refueling and full armament, 10-12 aircraft with other pilots in a "set" with the An-10 went to Egypt through Yugoslavia and the Mediterranean Sea. the pilots returned back on a transporter, accompanied by two MiG-21s. I will not say exactly the number of overtaken aircraft, but the runway of the airfield resembled the deck of an aircraft carrier on a flight day.

      Three-day psychological pressure on the ruling circles of Tel Aviv, with a demonstrative full-alert deployment of US nuclear forces and Soviet airborne forces, has borne fruit. The war was stopped.

      I do not know about nuclear weapons and the Soviet airborne forces, but the "activity" of the Arabs led to the fact that a battalion of motorized riflemen was urgently brought to our garrison. trenches of full profile were dug along the entire perimeter of the garrison. delivered and stockpiled anti-tank mines (the latter is a separate story). everyone was strongly advised not to leave the garrison (it is clear that this did not apply to military personnel). and NATO in the same FRG came to full combat readiness. in general, the fall of 73 was quite "fun" in the group of troops.
    2. Versed
      Versed 5 November 2013 20: 26
      -4
      In toga Soviet aviation suffered a defeat and Russian pilots who fought on the side of the Arab troops.

      And the Israeli Air Force won accordingly
      1. Janis SU
        Janis SU 5 November 2013 20: 41
        +1
        Russian pilots? Then there were Soviet pilots. Hack it in your nose. By the way, the Soviet aviation a priori could not be defeated, since the Soviet Union did not fight against Israel. Well, these specific losses bore a local essence and to raise this to a mass level, they say, "the defeat of all Soviet aviation" is stupid and clumsy. In the same Vietnam, the successful knowledge of military affairs by Soviet pilots was excellently demonstrated. So this Middle East affair is relative and rather accidental. This is the whole point and salt.
        1. Versed
          Versed 5 November 2013 21: 24
          0
          "the Soviet Union did not fight against Israel" - of course of course ))

          "losses carried a local essence" - That as a result the USSR went bankrupt and these losses revealed the backlog of Soviet technologies, especially in the 1982 Lebanon war. Including the wretchedness of military doctrine (the main thing is quantity, not skill)

          About Vietnam do not tell Sovdepovskie tales, I do not believe in them. laughing
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  • In the reeds
    In the reeds 5 November 2013 22: 51
    0
    Oh wey did not fight. I also want to hold on ... Do not meddle, if you want good with God not in sports, our land is this and no other people are promised this, or you think that He will not keep his word. And you are not afraid. OK! We will see
  • Ols76
    Ols76 6 November 2013 06: 44
    +1
    The USSR how much money was swollen for the Arabs, and instead they turned their backs, so we need to learn from our mistakes and not step on the rake again.
    1. Night stalker
      Night stalker 13 September 2014 23: 03
      0
      And they are a strange people. Each time they repeat similar errors
  • Night stalker
    Night stalker 13 September 2014 23: 02
    0
    But how would the course of history turn around, then defeating the Arabs?
  • mehmeh
    mehmeh 6 December 2014 00: 12
    0
    They do not need to be reconciled
    This is stupid among the Israelis national chauvinism. Arabs cannot have religious extremism together. And the Americans will destroy the state around Israel and as a result, extremists will come to power everywhere around Israel and then he will fry the khan of Israel at the colored fire of the Arab revolutions
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