Military Review

Why am I not a patriot of Ukraine? (Weekly 2000, Ukraine)

258
Article 2010 of the year, but has not lost its relevance to this day


Why am I not a patriot of Ukraine? (Weekly 2000, Ukraine)


Last year “2000” was published by Maxim Mikhaylenko’s article “Passing Independence Through Yourself” with the subtitle “Three stories about becoming a Ukrainian. " It is clear that the word “Ukrainian” means not a canceled count in a passport, but a belief system, feeling oneself as a citizen and patriot of the state of Ukraine.

Maxim sincerely told how he became “Ukrainian,” obviously, having addressed the material to those who, despite the presence of a Ukrainian passport, did not become a “Ukrainian” in their hearts. Alas, I am one of those. Having become a citizen of a new state after birth and residence on its territory, in eighteen years I have not become its patriot. And since there are a lot of people like me, I consider it necessary to explain why this happened.

Of course, the concept of patriotism is multifaceted. But, no matter how much you talk about lofty matters (and I will definitely tell you about them), the attitude of an ordinary, “small” person to certain social and political structures (including the state itself) and processes is determined by their influence on their material well-being. Millions of people change their place of residence, move to other states solely for material reasons, and this no longer seems reprehensible to anyone! I did not go anywhere from my homeland, the city where I was born and lived all my life, independent Ukraine "came" by itself.

Independence will not be full

What did she give me and the millions of ordinary people? I will not compare the level and quality of life in independent Ukraine with the level and quality of life in the Soviet Union. I fully agree with Maxim that the collapse of the Soviet economic and political system was quite natural, as well as the difficult times that followed it for all the peoples of the former USSR. But did these times make it easier for us to go on an independent voyage? After all, the main argument in favor of independence was the famous Rukhov leaflets, with figures proving how Ukraine will live a satisfying life, barely stop feeding others. And what is the result?

The approximate parity of the living standards of Ukrainians and Russians (even with some preponderance of Ukraine) was maintained only in the first year of separate existence, until the banking systems of the two states were disconnected, and the Ukrainian leadership had the opportunity to emit a practically unlimited number of non-cash rubles, “exporting” its inflation to Russia The unilateral introduction of a full-fledged national monetary unit by Russia (and Ukraine, for obvious reasons, sabotaged this process in every way) led to an inflationary explosion of 1993 in Ukraine, which immediately threw it far back. The growth rate of prices in more than 10 times exceeded the not low Russian figures.

The difference in the standard of living began to be felt already at the end of 1993 — the beginning of 1994. Yes, the dynamics of “development” in Ukraine and Russia, like in other post-Soviet states, were the same: inflation, decline in production, closure of enterprises, delayed wages and pensions and so on. Negative was relayed through the media and created the feeling that “they have - like us”. However, those who regularly visited Ukraine and Russia, even then, noticed that “their abyss” is not as deep as ours. And in the second half of the 90-s, Ukrainian foreign workers reached Russia, and not only to Moscow and St. Petersburg, which, in my opinion, is the clearest comparative criterion.

However, there is a subjective mass perception, but there are real economic indicators. The largest drop in GDP compared to 1990 in Russia was 40%, and in Ukraine - 59,2%! In the pre-crisis 2007, Russia's GDP exceeded Soviet maximums (14 743 dollars per capita), and Ukraine's GDP reached only 2 / 3 levels of 1990 (6916 dollars). The average salary in Russia was 529. in dollar terms versus 270 in Ukraine. A similar picture can be observed in almost all indicators of socio-economic development: housing construction, the number of cars in personal use, etc.

It is characteristic that in the post-Soviet years the population of Russia decreased by 6 million people, i.e., by about the same amount as Ukraine lost three times less! And this figure does not take into account even 6 million Ukrainians (not according to the “spirit”, but according to the passport), who are forced to earn a living out of the country. In Russia, “alienation” as a phenomenon is practically absent - one cannot meet Russians and Russian women in Polish fields and Spanish construction sites, among Italian housemaids and carers.

Well, when the global crisis hit, Ukraine was again ahead of not only Russia and other post-Soviet states, but the entire planet. The average salary in May of this year in Russia was 18 190 rubles, or 4550 UAH., Against 1660 UAH. in Ukraine! The difference already exceeds 2,5 times!

The failure of economic arguments in favor of Ukrainian patriotism is so obvious that even Mikhailenko could not resist not to use the last argument of the conscious public - say, official statistics - this is “the average temperature in the hospital”, and outside the capitals, resorts and oil and gas regions the Russians (this is my personal opinion, I do not seek to convince anyone) and now it is at least no richer than the Ukrainians, if only because Ukrainians are massively involved in the shadow economy.

But “paradise” in the capitals is not only a Russian phenomenon, and it is also fully present in Ukraine. My opinion is based on “personal” information, for example, from a distant relative living on the border of the Arkhangelsk and Kirov regions (it is difficult to imagine a “deeper” Russian outback) in the region administratively related to Kirov (officially - one of the most economically backward and depressed in Russia), regularly in Ukraine and having the ability to compare; from a fellow practitioner who moved from Crimea to Yeisk ten years ago (although a resort, but clearly not a “premium” class, an ordinary provincial town).

Finally, I live in the shipbuilders' microdistrict, and although the shipbuilding enterprises of our city (working around 10 — 20% of their Soviet highs) experience severe shortages of personnel, many of my neighbors still prefer to work in Russian shipyards, and who succeeded, moved there forever . I think that any reader will also recall many similar examples, and Maxim’s personal opinion, I’m afraid, not so much an opinion as self-deception is an attempt to pass what you want into reality.

Maxim writes: “For me personally, it was obvious - to succeed here (in Ukraine. - Auth.) Is possible, just work!” But isn't it possible to say the same about modern Russia? Therefore, attributing this possibility to the advantages of independence is at least a huge stretch. A much higher level of economic development in Russia provides energetic, with an entrepreneurial streak to people who are immeasurably more empowered than in Ukraine. Again, pay attention to the fact that Russians who want to work and earn money do not need to look for such an opportunity outside their own country, unlike the Ukrainians. In addition, as scientists say, only 10 — 20% of people, according to their psychophysical data, are able to start and successfully conduct business. And the rest simply need normally paid jobs. And how similar work in Russia and Ukraine is paid, see above.

Thus, we have to admit that there are absolutely no economic grounds for becoming “Ukrainian” neither for me nor for tens of millions of our ordinary citizens! Only our dear politicians and their numerous and multi-service "attendants" unequivocally benefited from independence, and, perhaps, customs officers with smugglers at the newly emerged borders. Probably, this list can be added to the people of Kiev, thanks to their city acquiring the status of a capital and corresponding financial flows, but I don’t think that the average Kiev resident lives better than a resident of some large Russian city (for example, Nizhny Novgorod). The rest is precisely the independence of Ukraine owes the fact that a significant part of their lives lived much worse than they could have lived while maintaining a single state!

Not by bread alone

Of course, such a feeling as patriotism can in no way be reduced only to “uterine” motives. Love for the Motherland should be just as natural and inherent in any person, as love for parents, who, as we know, do not choose. After all, the parents of each of us are ordinary people with their own strengths and weaknesses and all the more financial means, but we love them (with rare exceptions) not for “opportunities”, but for what they are for us, and we are the most expensive for them and close people who should be together in joy and in sorrow.

Likewise, patriotism, pride in the history and achievements of the Motherland are usually in a person's blood, as they say, from diapers. And I, like tens of millions, from the earliest years (and I am not a young man) had a feeling of love for the Motherland - the Soviet Union, which was always and universally associated with Russia. Of course, we saw the shortcomings of the existing regime, told jokes about the senile general secretary, envied the abundance in Western shops and resented the lack of democratic freedoms. But we were proud of our country, the first person to launch into space, collapse of fascism, its thousand-year history with many glorious victories and accomplishments, dozens of geniuses donated to the world and hundreds, if not thousands, of outstanding personalities who showed themselves in all spheres of human activity .

And this great Motherland was taken from me, declared the “evil empire”. My small homeland (hometown) became part of the new state - Ukraine, which no one (of my friends and colleagues in any case) shared with Russia before. Of course, you could try to love your new homeland - if not with your heart, so with your mind. But it did not work! It turned out to be impossible to accept that history and those “heroes” whom the ideologists of the new state offered in return for those who were rejected. Even a genius of world magnitude, Gogol, who like no one else sang of Little Russia (Ukraine) and could well have become the "calling card" of an independent Ukraine, was in fact rejected by them for his Russian patriotism.

The main national genius appointed Taras Shevchenko. Taras Grigorievich list of Ukrainian geniuses in the list of culture, science and art is practically limited. The achievements of Ukrainian science, industry (now rapidly degrading and leaving into non-existence) are directly related to the stay of Ukraine within the USSR, and earlier - the Russian Empire, which was, according to the official version of history, for centuries of oppression and exploitation.

And this imposed story with its new "heroes" can in no way cause at least respect from a sane person. Of course, it is not surprising that the same historical characters receive diametrically opposite assessments on opposite sides of the current state borders. For example, George Washington has long remained a traitor and separatist for many in England.

All historical figures of all nations were not angels in the flesh, they were not shy in the means and methods of achieving goals; historians from neighboring countries love to “look for fleas” in their biographies, and they naturally idealize their heroes. As the saying goes, “their” spies are “our” scouts. The neighbors have a “pathological sadist” and a “treacherous traitor,” we have a “son of his time” and a “skilled politician”. It is clear that the truth is somewhere in the middle, and the place of certain heroes on the national historical pedestal is determined, as a rule, by two things: how much their activity met the interests and aspirations of their peoples and states and what successes they have achieved.

It is clear that within the framework of this letter I will not analyze in detail the activities of each of the Ukrainian heroes, quite a lot of material has been published on this subject, including on the pages of 2000, but I will try to draw general conclusions.

First: all the “heroes” were political losers, who suffered a complete fiasco in their activities. Moreover, the main reason for the catastrophes that had befallen them was not the external factors of insuperable force, but the rejection of the Ukrainians themselves. Moreover, if at a certain historical moment they were not needed as a tool for external enemies of Russia, they would have no chance to get into the pages of modern history textbooks (for example, as a certain Sapega, whose project of the Ukrainian campaign did not inspire Bonaparte).

Secondly: none of them can be called a strong politician, not even Mazepa, who, trying to outwit both Peter and the Poles with the Swedes, as a result, outwitted himself. Personal qualities that could cause respect for our “heroes” are difficult to find with a microscope. Adaptation, servility to more powerful and deceit — this is more than enough in their biographies, but principled, steadfastness in carrying out their policies, finally, just personal and political courage — Ukrainian history cannot cite such examples. It’s absolutely impossible to find the ideological, national liberation component in the activities of the heroes of the Hetman’s era, and later followers of their “cause” sold their “patriotism” too easily for bread places, including the recent opponents (like Petliura, to the Poles, and Hrushevsky to the Bolsheviks ). Once out of business, they began to look for new owners!

Actually, the place of the clerk at the foreign owners of Ukraine, the “native administration” was the main goal for all of them. Under the sauce of formal independence - well, no - also nothing terrible. And the definition of "collaborators" for them - the most accurate (if you refrain from more stringent). And these are the "fathers of the fatherland, which we should take for samples"? I think the rhetorical question is: is there still a country in the world where collaborators instead of deserved contempt have the rank of national heroes?

I'm sorry, gentlemen, patriots

I repeat, it is difficult to accept both the heart and the mind with a country with such a story (however, through and lying and false) and such “heroes”! It is obvious to any thinking person (and Maxim is not an exception, which he admits) that the “Project Ukraine” was artificially invented and implemented exclusively as a means of weakening and destroying Russia. Independence ideologists have pretty much tried to kill in the souls of people the sense of Soviet and Russian patriotism imbued with mother’s milk, and frighten the history of our Motherland, but at the same time they killed many people with the very ability to display such a high feeling as patriotism.

Even a child who was taken away from a dysfunctional family and given to wealthy, caring adoptive parents, it is very difficult to restructure his feelings, he still considers his own mother the best. In our case, the situation is the opposite - at a quite conscious age, we were “taken away” from a completely prosperous mother-motherland and given to a thieving and deceptive station prostitute, demanding to be recognized as her own, - excuse me, dear Ukrainian patriots, for making such a comparison!

Yes, and for us, residents of the southeast, this “new” (after all, we did not leave our homes and cities), our Motherland is not a mother, but a real stepmother! How “orange” raged in 2004 about the card “So vigliadak їх Ukraine”! But this is absolutely true !!! The division of the citizens of the new state into "correct" (the more trap, the more correct) and the "wrong", which should be "taught to be Ukrainians" (by the way, in the latest issue of 2000, Leonid Kravchuk openly calls for this) - an objective reality, state policy is not only the "orange" power, but also their predecessors. I will not even dwell on the obvious prevalence of immigrants from Western Ukraine among the Kiev establishment, on their large-scale “landing” at key posts in the eastern regions in the complete absence of oncoming traffic.

I can only say about the "language issue"

I was born and live in the historical region - Novorossia (where, by the way, 50% of the population of present-day Ukraine live and 75% of its GDP is created), in a city founded by the Russian empress on lands conquered by Russian soldiers, so uninhabited because of the constant Tatar raids, in the city, which was and is Russian-speaking from the moment of its foundation until today. And I am not a guest in my hometown, who must respect the "indigenous people". I remember that in the period of sovereignty, it was fashionable to accuse the Russian-speaking people in the national republics of insufficient respect for the language and customs of the local population, to see this as a manifestation of imperial politics. But we, the Russian-speaking, are the indigenous people of Novorossia, which the Ukrainizers who had come from Galicia in recent decades should have respected!

According to the American Gallup Institute, 83% of its respondents in Ukraine prefer to give interviews in Russian. But why, even in my own, in 99% Russian-speaking city, I was deprived of the right to contact the official bodies, listen and watch TV and radio broadcasts and much more in my native language? Why was my children deprived of the right to study in Russian (both secondary and special)? But getting a child’s education in a foreign language inevitably affects the quality of education. A separate conversation is that the Canadian-Galich dialect, which is difficult for Ukrainian citizens of Central and Eastern Ukraine, is hard to penetrate as a “correct” Ukrainian, i.e., additional competitive advantages are artificially created for people from Western Ukraine.

However, this is not enough. Ukraine stole from me what is, it would seem, the most inherent property of any person - his name! Both Ukrainian laws and international conventions on human rights guarantee the right to a name, as well as the right to arbitrarily change the name and surname. And the only exception, on the basis of a certain departmental instruction, is Slavic names, which must be written in documents in Ukrainian transcription. But excuse me - I am not Dmitro and do not want to be Dmitro !!! Parents called me differently!

And this state, which has turned me into a second or even third-class citizen, deprived me of elementary civil rights (and what is our formal right to form power by participating in elections, clearly showed Maidan), should I fall in love? But, you see, “I do not intend to indulge” my rejection of this state, Maxim Mikhaylenko?

Sustained - love?

However, Maxim is well aware that millions of Ukrainians have absolutely nothing to love and respect the state, the citizens of which they were “lucky enough” to be. Therefore, he is trying to convince us to love an independent Ukraine “by necessity”, as a girl who is forcibly given in marriage is persuaded to love an imposed husband - they say, this is fate, and you cannot run away from her. In the interpretation of Maxim: “Yes, and does not happen in the history of accidents ... So it is with Ukraine. But our empire collapsed from the inside, in fact - it was Russia that separated from us. ”

Of course, the re-creation of 1991 events would have taken a lot of space, but I have to remind you that already on August of that year, very high-ranking representatives of the new Russian leadership Rutskaya and Sobchak with the mission to “reason” the Ukrainian leaders immediately flew to Kiev. It was the complete failure of this mission that made Yeltsin accept the collapse of the union state (and Russia really didn’t need an alliance with the Central Asian republics, and the correctness of this position cannot be denied). So Russia is not separated from Ukraine!

As for accidents and patterns in history ... Khrushchev is much cursed for the transfer of Crimea to Ukraine (by no means an “obligatory” step, from the point of view of history), but they forget about another of his “voluntarist” actions - the abolition of Karelo in 1956 -Finnish SSR. But if this did not happen, today Karelia would be an independent state! So the question of coincidences and patterns is by no means as simple and unambiguous as Maxim argues.

And is that a “place” in which Ukraine ended up in its “majority”? Or is this the natural result of the “development” of the state, which the “republican nomenclature has created for itself” (Maxim Mikhaylenko) with the help of “sausage” patriotism? Maxim tries to convince that “Orangism” is a disease of the growth of the young state, and even predicts: “Maybe the next Independence Day will be filled for us with a new meaning - and indeed independence from the forces that have been pulling us all these years into a dead end and downwards - hell.

I understand very well that, not being a super-optimist, it is very difficult to remain a patriot of the Ukrainian state, but personally I prefer to be a realist. Nowhere, Maxim, these “forces pulling us into the underworld” (internal and external) will not disappear, since it was they who implemented the “project“ Ukraine ”. Only for them it makes sense. Yes, and who can come to replace them? Are there such non-politicians, but statesmen in our country? Maxim didn’t fail to remind about the “distance” of Yeltsin, which we safely avoided thanks to sovereignty. But these are “the affairs of bygone days”, and what might the “udal” of the current Ukrainian leaders (to whom I will express my opinion, to the late Boris Nikolayevich - as to the stars), can be scary to imagine!

However, while I was writing this letter, the latest issue of “2000” was published with a new article by Maxim Mikhaylenko, “The IMF candidate,” in which he writes: “But Ukraine and Ukrainians themselves do not take Ukraine seriously”. And this is a sentence! After all, “not only ordinary Ukrainians do not seriously perceive Ukraine, but also its, so to speak, elite, for whom the“ project Ukraine ”is only interested in its financial capabilities (for them). As you know, the fish rots from the head. And why ordinary citizens of Ukraine should relate to this state, which gave them nothing - only took, better than those to whom it gave everything? Moreover, the lesson of the "pragmatic" attitude towards the Motherland was taught eighteen years ago.

If we talk about historical patterns, then what is eighteen years on the scales of history? And what is it compared to the thousand-year history of Russia, in which there have been more difficult and difficult times? Therefore, I remain an optimist with regard to the future of my Motherland, which I do not associate with the collapse in front of the “independent” (really - from whom?) State of Ukraine!
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http://2000.net.ua/2000/aspekty/nasledie/49213
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  1. pensioner
    pensioner 5 November 2013 07: 46
    10
    The difference in living standards began to be felt already at the end of 1993 - the beginning of 1994.I remember, I remember those times. When we came to the market in K. Rog to exchange rubles for coupons, a spontaneous auction immediately formed around us. Once, when we arrived, the rate was 1p. = 1,5 coupons. And one day in the morning they report: "The coupon has collapsed!" We're on the telly. They say: "1p. = 2 coupons!" We have hammered into work - we are waiting for news ... We broke down when they gave 3,75 coupons for the ruble and ran to the market. As a result, he dropped to 4,5. But with food there was everything in the right way. It was just not to take out. And the enterprises themselves had little money. Under the contract, YuGOK offered to pay us with Skoda cars. Our bosses - and you - did not agree ... As a result, they waited for payment for almost a year.
    1. Nicholas C.
      Nicholas C. 5 November 2013 08: 06
      45
      Good article. Everything is motivated. The Ukraine project to residents of Little Russia, Novorossiya, Slobozhanshchina, part of the lands of the Don Don, Crimea given to newly-minted Ukraine did not give anything, only took it away. The fullest sensation of occupation by the gangster-fascist regime and alien by faith, by the language of the Galicia.
      1. cashpoint
        cashpoint 5 November 2013 09: 13
        -42 qualifying.
        Poll: 75% of Donetsk youth consider themselves Ukrainians

        During the years of Ukraine's independence, a young generation has grown up in Donetsk, which mostly identifies itself with Ukraine and the Ukrainian nation. This is evidenced by the results of a sociological survey conducted by the Center for Political Science Research, which was presented in Donetsk by Kirill Cherkashin, head of the sociological service of the Center for Political Science.

        http://podrobnosti.ua/society/2013/08/08/922522.html

        A new social movement is being formed in Ukraine - Russian-Speaking Ukrainian Nationalists (RUN)


        Appeared in the form of groups on social networks, the association is now preparing for official registration. The social base of the new movement can be millions of people. “In Ukraine today, 45% of the population are Russian-speaking citizens.

        Two thirds of them are ethnic Ukrainians, whose families became Russian-speaking as a result of centuries of Russification. According to opinion polls, 86% of these people consider Ukraine their homeland, and 72% called themselves patriots of their country.

        http://news.eizvestia.com/news_politics/full/dvizhenie-russkoyazychnye-ukrainski
        e-nacionalisty-stremitelno-razrastaetsya-ng
        1. klimpopov
          klimpopov 5 November 2013 09: 43
          14
          otherwise, a young generation has grown in Donetsk, which is predominantly

          Here I’ll agree. I have met repeatedly.
          The legacy of the USSR in the form of a generation of Soviet citizens is neither necessary for the authorities in Ukraine nor beyond its borders, and even contraindicated. They need to reformat youth with all their might and the stake is placed on them! The old generation is perceived as an "unfinished scoop". Something like this...
          ethnic Ukrainians

          Then I'm an ethnic Cossack!))) (Sarcasm if Che)
          Sowing the phrase confirms my words.
          1. Anper
            Anper 5 November 2013 12: 19
            11
            They need to reformat youth with all their might
            Young people are young people, but when a 50-year-old educated person who graduated from the Kiev Polytechnic University complains that Ukrainian youth no longer wants to work, and earlier Ukrainians and America, Canada, Australia, Kazakhstan, Argentina and Russia were raised, and now degenerated - so who brainwashed?
            1. klimpopov
              klimpopov 5 November 2013 12: 26
              +3
              Hmm, is he exactly 50? Or am I living in a parallel universe? I have not met such ...
            2. cashpoint
              cashpoint 5 November 2013 23: 57
              +3
              Quote: Anper
              that Ukrainian youth now does not want to work,


              Ukrainian IT-specialists took 2nd place in international competitions, losing only to the USA
              The competition was attended by more than 11 million participants from 50 countries. Such developed countries as Germany, Israel and Canada did not even get into the top ten.
              http://zn.ua/UKRAINE/ukrainskie-it-specialisty-zanyali-2-e-mesto-na-mezhdunarodn
              yh-sorevnovaniyah-ustupiv-tolko-ssha-131901_.html

              The level of Ukrainian IT specialists is one of the highest in the world - Global Logic
              Jim Walsh, Global Logic's Chief Technology Officer (USA), confirms World Bank forecasts that in 2015 Ukraine will become the 6th country in the world in terms of exports of IT services. He said this on the air of the BTB television channel.
              The expert noted that Ukraine really has extremely powerful prospects for the development of the IT technology sector and confirmed the forecasts of the World Bank that Ukraine will enter the 6th place in the world in the next two years in terms of the volume of exports of IT services.
              “I did my independent research ... Yes, maybe! The number of talents in Ukraine is impressive. The population is 45 million, but you graduate more people with higher education than we are in the United States. I looked at statistics that Ukraine makes up less than 1% of the world's population, but has 6% of scientists, engineers, and programmers who generally live in peace. I believe that the high standards of your education have a significant role here, ”said J. Walsh.
              http://news.finance.ua/ru/~/1/0/all/2013/10/02/310135
              1. zardoz
                zardoz 6 November 2013 00: 32
                +2
                And what? Is there only an IT industry in Ukraine? I am currently working in IT. In terms of education and thinking, citizens of Ukraine are both Russians and Belarusians, but people from Ukraine are much cheaper. Therefore, such a percentage. Plus in Ukraine it is quite difficult to find an alternative. In some places, there is simply no work. And if there is, they don’t want to go there (low salaries, poor working conditions, etc.). But I’ll say how a person who tried to pull a lot of people into IT didn’t get too much. Moreover, earnings are much more than people get in their main places. And some do not really want to work. They are sitting on the necks of parents, relatives ...
        2. Corsair
          Corsair 5 November 2013 09: 56
          12
          Quote: cashpoint
          Poll: 75% of Donetsk youth consider themselves Ukrainians

          And who else should they consider themselves? They were born in Ukraine, there are no "nationality" columns in birth certificates and passports ... Nationality "Donetsk / Donetsk resident" has not yet been invented. request
          But whether they became SVIDOMIMI Ukraіntsami is a BIG QUESTION.
          1. klimpopov
            klimpopov 5 November 2013 10: 14
            +7
            Here is an example before my eyes. My classmate is from Ouspenka (he is not far from Armavir), his brother worked in the north and at the end of the 80 (he himself also from Ouspenka) moved to Mariupol. But his daughter, already born in Ukraine, sincerely considers herself a Ukrainian by nationality, because at school and then at the institute she was told this.
            Rave? Or should it be?
            1. varov14
              varov14 5 November 2013 13: 12
              +3
              "Nonsense? Or should it be so?" --- It should be so, it all depends on the quality and focus of education. Unfortunately, the young generation itself does not seek to educate itself. You always need a mentor, and even more so on social issues. Let us remember ourselves, how long ago they became wise, were led to an extra ration of sausages, and when the salaries were paid by saigas, the veil began to subside. But the media have so far successfully replaced it with noodles.
            2. Setrac
              Setrac 5 November 2013 15: 19
              +3
              Quote: klimpopov
              Rave? Or should it be?

              The legacy of the Soviet past, this is because parents have withdrawn from the upbringing and education of their children, which allows secondary schools to shove any dregs for children.
              1. klimpopov
                klimpopov 5 November 2013 15: 23
                +4
                Here I am about the same. And what, the father is a docker, plows without stopping or lies at home with his back. Mother also plows ... So daughter grew up in Ukrainian.
        3. Alekseev
          Alekseev 5 November 2013 10: 36
          13
          Quote: cashpoint
          Poll: 75% of Donetsk youth consider themselves Ukrainians

          It’s like my mother-in-law in Odessa has some kind of pride ... ok, he carries farrowing at school: do the kids want to return the USSR?
          What can they say when they were born 10 years after the collapse and were brought up in conditions of increased propaganda?
          And their opinion is presented as "the voice of God". lol
          Unfortunately, history repeats itself, propaganda, especially for young and inexperienced (and poorly, generally educated) people, is very effective.
          Until self-winds blow "sand in the ass" there will be no insight. Unfortunately, of course.
        4. seller trucks
          5 November 2013 11: 05
          +8
          Quote: cashpoint
          “In Ukraine today, 45% of the population are Russian-speaking citizens.


          outright nonsense, firstly, according to surveys of a certain GALLUP- Center for the Humanitarian Technologies of the United States, a study was conducted for a report to the State Department that revealed that in Ukraine Russian-speaking 83%

          http://rusmir.in.ua/rus/2375-yeksperty-ssha-dlya-83-ukraincev-rodnoj-yazyk.html

          Original: http://www.gallup.com/poll/109228/russian-language-enjoying-boost-postsoviet-sta
          tes.aspx

          "Center for Political Science Research", which was presented in Donetsk by Kirill Cherkashin, head of the sociological service of the Center for Political Science.


          laughing have fun good I would be more surprised if it were different
          1. cashpoint
            cashpoint 6 November 2013 00: 04
            -3
            “In Ukraine today, 45% of the population are Russian-speaking citizens. Two thirds of them are ethnic Ukrainians, whose families became Russian-speaking as a result of centuries of Russification. According to opinion polls, 86% of these people consider Ukraine their homeland, and 72% called themselves patriots of their country. Oddly enough, these people were still perceived as a kind of misunderstanding: Russian-speaking patriots of Ukraine, ”the leader of the new movement Sergey Zamilyukhin told NG.
            He was born, educated and now lives in Kiev. In the past he was engaged in the printing business, but recently he devoted all his time to creating a new movement. Zamilyukhin claims that this happened almost by accident: “From 2006-2008, the issue of the place and role of Russian-speaking citizens in Ukraine who support the independence and sovereignty of their state has been actively discussed in the information sphere. In Russia, many mistakenly equate the concepts of "Russian-speaking" and "pro-Russian." For Ukraine, these concepts are not identical. ”
            According to Zamilyukhin, thoughts on this subject pushed him to create a special group on social networks about a year ago. Unexpectedly quickly thousands of educated and socially active people joined her. Then, in the large cities of the east and south of Ukraine, peculiar clubs of Russian-speaking patriots began to form, which are supposed to become cells of the new movement. Similar centers have been created or are being formed today in Kharkov, Donetsk and Donetsk region, in Lugansk and the cities of the region, in Zaporozhye, Kiev, Dnepropetrovsk, Odessa, Nikolaev.
            The leader of the movement categorically refutes any political basis for this activity: “We plan to register as a public organization that sets educational goals. Explain to Russian-speaking Ukrainians that their native language is not Russian, which was historically imposed on their families, but Ukrainian is the language of their nation. To convey the true story of our people. For people to be proud of their nationality and strive for Ukraine in the broad sense, including the desire to learn the national culture, traditions, and learn the national language. ”
            In this context, it is noteworthy that last year, when the scandalous law on regional languages ​​was adopted in Ukraine, only 28% of citizens supported the idea of ​​further raising the status of the Russian language. According to the Kiev International Institute of Sociology, 47% did not object to granting Russian regional status in places of compact residence of Russian-speaking citizens. Another 19% supported the exclusion of the Russian language from official communication throughout the state. 56% called themselves Ukrainian-speaking, 40% called Russian-speaking, other languages ​​are native to 3% of Ukrainian citizens. According to deputy Vadim Kolesnichenko, co-author of the law on regional languages, the Russian language today is native to 14 million 273 thousand citizens of Ukraine.
            But the adoption of the law, and attempts to implement it led to a number of scandals. The last one is related to the forthcoming external independent assessment (UPE) of the knowledge of school graduates. Minister of Education and Science Dmitry Tabachnik said that 80% of future applicants asked for tests in Ukrainian. He considered it a mockery that the remaining 20% ​​wanted to be tested in the languages ​​of national minorities - Hungarian, Romanian, Crimean Tatar. Russian has become only one of them. The scientist and public figure Maxim Striha believes that Tabachnik miscalculated in the desire to demonstrate how much Ukrainians are interested in learning in Russian.

            http://www.ng.ru/cis/2013-04-19/1_ukraina.html
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. Hudo
                Hudo 6 November 2013 00: 31
                0
                Quote: Avenger711
                Ukraine is worse than fascism.


                An intermediate stage of degradation of a Russian person in a Pole.
                1. morpex
                  morpex 6 November 2013 01: 33
                  0
                  Quote: Hudo
                  Quote: Avenger711
                  Ukraine is worse than fascism.


                  An intermediate stage of degradation of a Russian person in a Pole.

                  The intermediate stage is when from a monkey to a person. Judging by your comment, you are stuck somewhere in the middle. The body is already human and the monkey’s brains fool
              2. morpex
                morpex 6 November 2013 01: 29
                +1
                Quote: Avenger711


                Ukraine is worse than fascism.

                Are you sick on your head? Hello, moderators wassat Are you sleeping?
                Hey Apollo! Where are you the main "orderly"?
                In general, the reason is that all people are strangers to each other. But smart people are freed from manifesting hatred, and fools are not able to restrain their primitive nature. Smart people, hating a neighbor, understand that it is more comfortable to live, taming their hostility. The fool is not able to comprehend the benefits of a friendly relationship.
            2. Setrac
              Setrac 6 November 2013 00: 26
              0
              Quote: cashpoint
              Two thirds of them are ethnic Ukrainians, whose families became Russian-speaking as a result of centuries of Russification.

              Where does the centuries-old Russification come from in a country that is less than a century old?
              Quote: cashpoint
              47% did not object to granting Russian regional status in places of compact residence of Russian-speaking citizens.

              All Ukraine is a place of compact residence of the Russian-speaking population.
        5. Hudo
          Hudo 5 November 2013 11: 09
          26
          Quote: cashpoint
          Poll: 75% of Donetsk youth consider themselves Ukrainians

          Quote: cashpoint
          This is evidenced by the results of a sociological survey conducted by the Center for Political Science Research, which was presented in Donetsk by Kirill Cherkashin, head of the sociological service of the Center for Political Science.


          I don’t know what the "proctological research center" was covering and from whose voice and for whose money this Zelman Sprintselkruck Kirill Cherkashin, but a year ago, in the class where my youngest daughter is studying (Lugansk), in response to the insistent imposition of nonsense "mi usi Ukraintsi" and other things like "ridna mova slovyina" on children by teachers, the parents of the children conducted a debriefing tones. In the course of which it quickly became clear that "native mova" was only native to 9 out of 28 children.
          This "research" is a complete slag, F furnace it together with its authors!
          1. xan
            xan 5 November 2013 13: 10
            +8
            Quote: Hudo
            In the course of which it quickly became clear that "native mova" was only native to 9 out of 28 children.

            Svidomye wait that the Russian Ukrainians will be Russian more than the Russians themselves.
            And then they have a lid.
            But Russia is nearby, and Svidomo with the earth can not escape.
            1. lordinicus
              lordinicus 5 November 2013 13: 30
              +2
              Quote: xan
              Quote: Hudo
              In the course of which it quickly became clear that "native mova" was only native to 9 out of 28 children.
              Svidomye wait that the Russian Ukrainians will be Russian more than the Russians themselves.
              And then they have a lid.
              But Russia is nearby, and Svidomo with the earth can not escape.


              Just information, I do not question your statement.
              In Ukraine, a population census was carried out and there was a question, "what language is your native language." More than half of the population spoke Ukrainian.

              I will explain how it happened - people speak Russian or rather Surzhek because it is not pure Russian, but they consider it native Ukrainian. Why did people do this? I don’t know how this was investigated; I can say it for myself - if my environment is Russian, I speak Russian, if my environment is Ukrainian I speak Surgek (I myself am from the Russian-speaking region and do not know much Ukrainian). This situation does not present discomfort to me, I perceive it all quite normally. Pointing out one language as a native - Ukrainian only because I am a patriot of my country and I want my children to know Ukrainian as well because it is much more difficult to learn Ukrainian in Ukraine than Russian.
              1. Hudo
                Hudo 5 November 2013 13: 35
                +6
                Quote: lordinicus
                because to learn Ukrainian in Ukraine is much more difficult than Russian.


                What are you saying ???? !!! And what is this complexity, if the mov is not just planted, it is stupidly and intrusively steamed like stale expired goods in a seedy supermarket.
                1. lordinicus
                  lordinicus 5 November 2013 13: 45
                  +1
                  Quote: Hudo
                  What are you saying ???? !!! And what is this complexity, if the mov is not just planted, it is stupidly and intrusively steamed like stale expired goods in a seedy supermarket.

                  Tell me how many people do you have from your circle of friends who say not only in Ukrainian, but at least on surgek? I have 0. There are literally zero, nobody, but I want to know Ukrainian, and now tell me how to learn it? What to watch on TV?
                  1. Hudo
                    Hudo 5 November 2013 13: 57
                    +7
                    Quote: lordinicus
                    Tell me how many people do you have from your circle of friends who say not only in Ukrainian, but at least on surgek? I have 0.


                    Yes, almost everyone who was educated in a Soviet school on the territory of the Ukrainian SSR reads, writes without mistakes and perceives Ukromova by ear - do you know the grades in Ukromov and Ukroliterature went to the certificate, that's for ignorance of the "creativity" of some mediocre markovka, Panas Myrny or St. Petersburg Kaldyr Shevchenko could spoil the average grade of the certificate needed for admission to the university.

                    But to know and love things are different. Look at the intelligence departments, too, without a interpreter, they prefer to interrogate the prisoners ... but lyuboff ... but what kind of thing can be lyuboff in such a case.
                    1. vanaheym
                      vanaheym 6 November 2013 03: 53
                      0
                      For example, I calmly speak Ukrainian, as well as English and Spanish, do not feel any discomfort from communicating in Ukrainian, because I studied them from the first grade. But do I like to speak Ukrainian - no. If we talk about youth, then the majority of Ukrainian young people have grown significantly. My son is now 19 - about half of the guys already speak Ukrainian in their school. He was born after the collapse of the USSR, all subjects in the school were in the Ukrainian language and he naturally does not position himself as a Russian.
                      1. Setrac
                        Setrac 6 November 2013 21: 51
                        0
                        Quote: vanaheym
                        , all the subjects in the school were in Ukrainian and he naturally does not position himself as a Russian.

                        It doesn’t matter who positions itself as a prose of life, everything will be put in its place.
                  2. ATATA
                    ATATA 5 November 2013 18: 43
                    +5
                    Quote: lordinicus
                    but I want to know Ukrainian, and now tell me how to learn it? What to watch on TV?

                    And mother whispers the mother’s mother tongue, it’s not necessary to look for where to learn the words of the mother who is raising a child.
                    You can only search for a foreign language, but not your native language.
                  3. zardoz
                    zardoz 5 November 2013 21: 20
                    +4
                    All official documentation is now in Ukrainian. You don’t want to, but you will know Ukrainian. I went to school a year before the collapse of the USSR, but I speak Ukrainian literary. Born in Stanitsa-Lugansk, I live and live in Lugansk. Here the Ukrainian language is very difficult to meet. Wild Surzhik yes. And only on TV. Mostly I do not watch TV sets. Ukrainian used only when he worked at a design institute when working with documents. He went to another sphere five years ago and, in principle, did not experience problems with spoken Ukrainian when communicating with Ukrainian-speakers recently.
                    1. Avenger711
                      Avenger711 6 November 2013 00: 17
                      0
                      Because K. used literary Russian.
              2. zub46
                zub46 5 November 2013 14: 34
                +8
                And for some reason it seems to me that "surzhik" is the very real Ukrainian language. Even without the artificially added admixtures of "Zapadenskaya movi" and Polish "movie". I read in museums everyday letters of Ukrainians living in the middle of the 19th century, written in their native language. "Surzhik" is ... It is still spoken by a considerable part of the inhabitants of the southern and southwestern extremities of the Kursk, Belgorod and Voronezh regions, where people from Ukraine moved to flee from the Poles.
                1. MG42
                  MG42 5 November 2013 14: 38
                  +9
                  Quote: zub46
                  And for some reason it seems to me that "surzhik" is the very real Ukrainian language. Even without the artificially added admixtures of "Zapadenskaya movi" and Polish "movie"

                  Transcarpathian dialect >>
                2. lordinicus
                  lordinicus 5 November 2013 14: 42
                  +4
                  Quote: zub46
                  And for some reason it seems to me that "surzhik" is the very real Ukrainian language. Even without the artificially added admixtures of "Zapadenskaya movi" and Polish "movie". I read in museums everyday letters of Ukrainians living in the middle of the 19th century, written in their native language. "Surzhik" is ... It is still spoken by a considerable part of the inhabitants of the southern and southwestern extremities of the Kursk, Belgorod and Voronezh regions, where people from Ukraine moved to flee from the Poles.

                  I agree to all 100s, you are the only person who supports the same opinion.
                  I talked with a linguist from the university, a teacher like him. He said such crap - "what is written in the textbook is the language in its full understanding, since it is a DOCUMENT." Nobody wants to change the spelling and make changes to the tutorials, why I don't know.
                  1. klimpopov
                    klimpopov 5 November 2013 14: 57
                    +4
                    a large part of the inhabitants of the southern and southwestern extremities of the Kursk, Belgorod and Voronezh regions, where people from Ukraine, fleeing from the Poles, have been speaking about since.

                    I'll tell you more, in surzhik and we still speak, mostly in farms of course and mostly older generation, but also for those who are younger and "x" instead of "g" is normal (what is this? Remnants of surzhik? Or southern dialect?) - I do not know how to express this sound with the keyboard. In general, I am inclined that this is a southern dialect, so to speak "faster". Well, something like this. I myself hack if I forget. Yes, and "sho" is also present.))))) There is not a single relative in the Square. However, the surzhik is understandable without straining, when he was wound to the square for work, they took for their own. Although they speak rudely. Well, complex words (mostly from Old Russian, apparently) are difficult to reach, well, that is, you need to think about it and remember what it means. At the same time, the so-called Kiev, or whatever it is, is ABSOLUTELY incomprehensible.
                    By the way, write how you can express southern g as the head)))) purely for fun
                    I also remembered about the southern "G" in the non-rhizinous one, by all means, "ho.hol"))))
                    Both in childhood and in school they were necessarily taught to pronounce G clearly))).
                    1. MG42
                      MG42 5 November 2013 15: 11
                      +4
                      Quote: klimpopov
                      I'll tell you more, in surzhik and we still speak, mostly in farms of course and mostly older generation, but also for those who are younger and "x" instead of "g" is normal (what is this? Remnants of surzhik? Or southern dialect?) - I do not know how to express this sound with the keyboard. In general, I am inclined that this is a southern dialect, so to speak "faster". Well, something like this. I myself hack if I forget. Yes, and "sho" is also present.))

                      This "SHO" is reported to Russian viewers by Zavorotnyuk in a TV series about a nanny, I accidentally watched the episode, her accent was enough for me ..
                      1. klimpopov
                        klimpopov 5 November 2013 15: 14
                        0
                        Yes, I'm talking about the fact that some remains of surzhik and we meet. By the way, here in this video, for me it’s very rude for her. Initially, she was clearly taught at school to speak correctly G. IMHO of course.
                      2. seller trucks
                        5 November 2013 15: 35
                        +4
                        Quote: MG42
                        This "SHO" is reported to Russian viewers by Zavorotnyuk in a TV series about a nanny, I accidentally watched the episode, her accent was enough for me ..


                        I welcome Sergey hi , how could you about Natasha Rush that sho woman "Tarzan" and her mommy to forget, but in general I faced such a phenomenon that getting rid of "ge" and "sho" is a big problem, fortunately, in Crimea, we used to have more "clinked glasses" ", and now all the general" shock "
                      3. MG42
                        MG42 5 November 2013 15: 45
                        +6
                        Quote: seller trucks
                        I greet Sergei, how could you about Natasha Rush that sho woman "Tarzan" and forget her mommy,

                        Greetings Vitaliy! hi Yes, this little woman frowned at the time of Igor Nikolaev ..
                        Quote: seller trucks
                        but in general, I faced such a phenomenon that it is a big problem to get rid of the "ge" and "sho"

                        My brother left for Moscow back in the early 90s, married a Muscovite, now a full-fledged Muscovite with Russian citizenship, rarely comes to Ukraine, he says already without the "SHO" in general, in the Russian-speaking environment, you can get rid of this accent ... In general, in Moscow, there is an accent ..
                      4. klimpopov
                        klimpopov 5 November 2013 15: 57
                        +2
                        In general, Moscow has its own emphasis ..

                        Which is acquired in a month ...
                      5. MG42
                        MG42 5 November 2013 16: 14
                        +4
                        Quote: klimpopov
                        Which is acquired in a month ...

                        It is possible and in less than 2 weeks it is enough to learn <a> and <o> accents, at least I did it in due time, but returning here you lose <skills> ..
                      6. klimpopov
                        klimpopov 5 November 2013 16: 23
                        +1
                        That's for sure! I absolutely agree! Well, just if you don’t bother and officially, then with ge and sho it’s much faster and easier)))))
                    2. seller trucks
                      5 November 2013 16: 15
                      +4
                      Quote: klimpopov
                      Which is acquired in a month ...


                      here we’ll not, I was with my wife in Minsk this summer, there’s no difference, the figs determined which of the Moscow Region, and Belarusians speak Russian better than ours. By the way, gentlemen, what figured ladies, legs-in, chest-in, the only muzzles with long noses, see from the Baltic states, but the figures, thin, long-legged, are a separate issue.
                    3. klimpopov
                      klimpopov 5 November 2013 16: 26
                      +2
                      Well I do not know. Muscovites can be heard very clearly in dialect, just like the Volga region, you will not be mistaken. At the expense of Minsk residents, yes, a separate topic ...
                      see from the Baltic states

                      Lithuanians.
                      here we’ll not, I was with my wife in Minsk this summer, there’s no difference, figs determined which of the Moscow Oblasts,

                      It is determined. And the fact that Belarusians speak Russian no worse, and sometimes better, is not news. Again, Russian is less diluted with slang and English words in Russian. Although Belarusian itself is very interesting ...
                    4. seller trucks
                      5 November 2013 16: 52
                      +1
                      Quote: klimpopov
                      Again, Russian is less diluted with slang and English words in Russian.


                      so, in Russian, moreover, there are a lot of newfangled words - parasites, a lot of shit comes from social networks. My daughter, a couple of years ago, comes home from school "as if", went to the parents' meeting, the class teacher is a historian, "as it were," approached me quietly and made a remark, she gave me a "youth word", but we must give it credit.
                    5. klimpopov
                      klimpopov 5 November 2013 17: 01
                      0
                      "as it were" is a scourge of the language lately. It has become popular to shorten words without the rules of these very abbreviations and so on. The tendency to make rules fit real knowledge. Well, simplification. Soon there will be three letters in the alphabet.
                    6. lordinicus
                      lordinicus 5 November 2013 17: 03
                      +2
                      Quote: klimpopov
                      "as it were" - this is generally the scourge of the language lately.

                      In Ukraine, I did not hear this trade, in Russian soap operas when my grandmother watched it, I heard it, but in our life they don’t say that.
                    7. klimpopov
                      klimpopov 5 November 2013 17: 07
                      0
                      "as if" a bundle or a "plug" when there is nothing to connect thoughts.
                      - how would they go fishing
                      - how to catch fish
                      as if at work
                      and so on
                    8. seller trucks
                      5 November 2013 17: 13
                      +2
                      Quote: lordinicus
                      In Ukraine, I did not hear this trade, in Russian soap operas when my grandmother watched it, I heard it, but in our life they don’t say that.


                      most likely do not pay attention, try to listen, "delirium", "crap", "brain removal", "stupidity", "roll", "like", "SHORT", "trick", "tin", "something like that" , there are small adjustments for the region, but in general, so.
                    9. lordinicus
                      lordinicus 5 November 2013 17: 47
                      0
                      Quote: seller trucks
                      most likely do not pay attention, try to listen, "delirium", "crap", "brain removal", "stupidity", "roll", "like", "SHORT", "trick", "tin", "something like that" , there are small adjustments for the region, but in general, so.

                      Everything is except -
                      "SHORT" - I have not really heard, in everyday life they do not say that, maybe the young people are very young, I do not know.
                      "something like that" - I definitely haven't heard this, because in Ukraine it is earful and it is clear that you are not Ukrainian :)
                    10. seller trucks
                      5 November 2013 17: 54
                      +1
                      really


                      by the way, too, a parasite word hi
      2. Cristall
        Cristall 6 November 2013 02: 49
        -1
        In Odessa, too, even your own language
        In Lviv, in 2 hours in Ukrainian, you start balacati - and nothing. And so good and meaningful.
        And so the main thing is what language do you think ... I, for example, in Russian.
    2. seller trucks
      5 November 2013 16: 00
      +1
      Quote: MG42
      My brother left for Moscow back in the early 90s, married a Muscovite, now a full-fledged Muscovite with Russian citizenship, rarely comes to Ukraine, he says already without the "SHO" in general, in the Russian-speaking environment, you can get rid of this accent ... In general, in Moscow, there is an accent ..


      with my older brother, moved to Russia from Ukraine in (1999) spouse from Gorlovka, zvizdets, "ge" and "sho", as if she moved yesterday
    3. lordinicus
      lordinicus 5 November 2013 16: 16
      +3
      And I'm proud to say sho. Only Ukrainians say that :) this is our specialty.
    4. klimpopov
      klimpopov 5 November 2013 16: 24
      0
      I wrote above that not only.
    5. seller trucks
      5 November 2013 16: 26
      0
      Quote: lordinicus
      And I'm proud to say sho. Only Ukrainians say that :) this is our specialty.


      well, it happens .... and it also "touches" me - a mobile phone. in general, it should be noted that there are a lot of chips in Ukraine: for example, TV chatting, natsyutsyurnik
    6. lordinicus
      lordinicus 5 November 2013 16: 28
      +1
      Quote: seller trucks
      well, it happens .... and it also "touches" me - a mobile phone. in general, it should be noted that there are a lot of chips in Ukraine: for example, TV chatting, natsyutsyurnik

      Well then, it's fun :) This is a feature of Ukrainians :)

      The question is, what does the mobile phone not say in Russia? How then are mobile phones called briefly?
    7. klimpopov
      klimpopov 5 November 2013 16: 35
      +2
      How then are mobile phones called briefly?

      trumpet.
      mobile phone?

      Mobile. Squeeze the mobile, squeezed out. But this is slang.
  2. maxvet
    maxvet 5 November 2013 18: 30
    +1
    [quote = lordinicus] I'm proud to say "sho". Only Ukrainians say this :) this is our feature. [/ Qu
    That is not so say x x x s (I relate to them)
  • Altona
    Altona 5 November 2013 16: 40
    +2
    I have a classmate from Gubkin, he spoke before studying at the institute in the South Russian surzhik, with all the inherent attributes - "sho", "la", "xg", with abundant admixtures of thieves give a damn in the form of such words as "Zhigan" .. He served in the army with Ukrainians in almost all regions, not only from Ukraine, but also from Russia and Belarus ... Huge differences in language came from representatives of Ivano-Frankivsk, Zborov, Lvov, abundant polonisms in the language ... The language of representatives of Kremenchug, Belaya Tserkov, Kharkiv and Donetsk did not create any difficulties at all ... It was only necessary to replace "work" with "hammer, crap", "love-kick", "bach-see", smell-hear ", well, small numbers "first", temporary units "rocky, khvylyny" ... In general, it is easily transformed back and forth ...
    1. lordinicus
      lordinicus 5 November 2013 16: 49
      0
      Quote: Altona
      "love-boom",

      From Donetsk, that even from Zhitomyr to hear this. After reading your post I smiled. Kohats, even Lviv residents are not particularly willing to say :) almost everyone says "Love".
    2. Altona
      Altona 5 November 2013 16: 53
      +3
      For example, I like surzhik ... In a conversation with Ukrainians, half an hour later I start to say "Hai bude", "podvyis", "ne bachu" and of course the epic "sho tse take" ... laughing
    3. lordinicus
      lordinicus 5 November 2013 17: 00
      +1
      Quote: Altona
      For example, I like surzhik ... In a conversation with Ukrainians, half an hour later I start to say "Hai bude", "podvyis", "ne bachu" and of course the epic "sho tse take" ...

      Oh, you are absolutely close to the truth :) and they say so :) at least everyone I know and meet. Just do not "podvyis" and "Podyvis".
      I use these words left and right, and I do not want to remove them from my vocabulary. Yes, when I speak official language either in pure Russian or in pure Ukrainian, I try to insert "sho" into the official Russian on purpose :)
    4. klimpopov
      klimpopov 5 November 2013 17: 04
      +1
      Oga and still

      - "Petro, you bach yak mos. Do they call our pyvo?"
      - "Yak?"
      - "BEER!"
      - "Yak-yak?"
      - "Pee-eeeeee!"
      - "By killing bi shit!" )))))
  • seller trucks
    5 November 2013 17: 26
    0
    Quote: Altona
    "Hai bude", "podvyis", "ne bachu" and of course the epic "sho tse take" ...


    and these are parasitic words, already wrote that it is necessary to make an amendment for the region
  • lordinicus
    lordinicus 5 November 2013 17: 49
    0
    Quote: seller trucks
    Quote: Altona
    "Hai bude", "podvyis", "ne bachu" and of course the epic "sho tse take" ...


    and these are parasitic words, already wrote that it is necessary to make an amendment for the region

    Specifically, this is - ("Hai bude", "podvyis", "ne bachu")
    I say it myself :)
  • Altona
    Altona 5 November 2013 18: 35
    +2
    I don’t own any particular dialect, so I use such a solidary vocabulary ...
  • Cristall
    Cristall 6 November 2013 02: 51
    0
    and my Russian girlfriend liked the word -cohats. She often repeats it. Although in Ukrainian, Nicherta hardly understands
  • Altona
    Altona 6 November 2013 17: 04
    +1
    As for "kokhat" ... I remembered a case from the life of signalmen ... Senior Sergeant Krivetsky (Ukrainian, Kievite), the grandfather of the Soviet army, lying on the first bed tier, kicked into the armored netting of the second-tier bed, where Private Achilov was reclining (Turkmen by nationality) ... By the way, both mechanics of the ZAS-telegraph, I don't know the positions (the senior sergeant was probably the head of the ZAS-tlg department) ... In general, a dialogue ensued:
    -Achilov, do you have a girlfriend?
    -Es, make sergeant sergeant ... Patima, forty-two pigtails, I’ll go to the dambil, I’ll get married ...
    -Achilov, do you like your girlfriend?
    -Osinna love, tavaris sergeant ...
    -Achilov, do you want me to teach you in Ukrainian to say "I love you", repeat after me- "I tebe kohayu!"
    -I'm SMOOTHING TO YOU!

    End of dialogue ... Curtain ... laughing
  • novobranets
    novobranets 5 November 2013 18: 31
    10
    Crowded bus in Kiev. There is a Ukrainian in harem pants with a mustache. A 100% Negro sits on the seat opposite and reads the newspaper "Zhovtnevy Prapor" in Ukrainian language.
    The crest so cautiously asks: And shaw, pan rozuma our move?
    Negro: But yak.
    Crest, after deliberation: So maybe a pan Ukrainian?
    Negro: But yak. ​​As there is a Ukrainian.
    Hohl: Tuuu. Who am I?
    Negro: From the identity and I bach, ch. Id, ch. Mosk. L. laughing
  • seller trucks
    5 November 2013 14: 54
    +2
    Quote: zub46
    It is still spoken by a large part of the inhabitants of the southern and southwestern extremities of the Kursk, Belgorod and Voronezh regions, where people from Ukraine moved to flee from the Poles.


    not only, the elements of MOVA are found in Siberia (WWII refugees) and in the Far East (diaspora of at least 500 000 people) you will not believe it is written not only its own history, it is about its own autonomy, fang predicted, eprst.
    1. klimpopov
      klimpopov 5 November 2013 15: 08
      0
      Yeah, here the story periodically pops up that the Kuban lands and Don are originally Ukrainian (I don’t know whose nonsense this is)))))))))))
      1. seller trucks
        5 November 2013 15: 23
        +1
        Quote: klimpopov
        Yeah, here the story periodically pops up that the Kuban lands and Don are originally Ukrainian (I don’t know whose nonsense this is)))))))))))


        well, yes, motivating by the fact that in the Kuban, Garni write songs on mov are mov, only Turkic people don’t wear
        1. klimpopov
          klimpopov 5 November 2013 15: 30
          +1
          Aha and at the same time saying that that surzhik mova is not)))))))
  • ATATA
    ATATA 5 November 2013 18: 39
    0
    Quote: lordinicus
    people speak Russian or rather Surzhek because it is not pure Russian, but they consider Ukrainian native. Why did people do this? I don’t know. Nobody investigated it.

    And you don’t think that your media just brainwashed?
    At first glance, the most logical assumption!
    You think for yourself in the meaning of your phrase!
    I speak Russian, sometimes I switch to a dialect of Russian (surzhik), but my native Ukrainian!

    In medicine, such phenomena in the psyche are diagnosed as schizophrenia (split personality).
    No offense. hi
    1. lordinicus
      lordinicus 5 November 2013 18: 51
      0
      Quote: ATATA
      And you don’t think that your media just brainwashed?
      At first glance, the most logical assumption!
      You think for yourself in the meaning of your phrase!
      I speak Russian, sometimes I switch to a dialect of Russian (surzhik), but my native Ukrainian!
      In medicine, such phenomena in the psyche are diagnosed as schizophrenia (split personality).
      No offense.

      This happens when people know several languages ​​and this is normal. I know a girl so she learned French as a mother (she needs work) and sometimes she doesn’t realize what she speaks and sometimes she will say something in French.
      1. ATATA
        ATATA 5 November 2013 19: 10
        -1
        Quote: lordinicus
        I know a girl so she learned French as a native (

        Do you want to say that she considers French her mother tongue?
        And who does she consider herself to be a nationality?
        European?
        You forgive me again hi , but I believe that the overwhelming majority of singers in independent Ukraine have big problems in terms of everyday logic.
        Sincerely. hi
  • orient
    orient 6 November 2013 01: 11
    +2
    Judging by the number of spelling mistakes you made, you don’t speak Russian well enough, let alone Ukrainian ...
  • MG42
    MG42 5 November 2013 12: 44
    +8
    Quote: cashpoint
    Poll: 75% of Donetsk youth consider themselves Ukrainians

    During the years of Ukraine's independence, a young generation has grown up in Donetsk, which mostly identifies itself with Ukraine and the Ukrainian nation. This is evidenced by the results of a sociological survey conducted by the Center for Political Science Research, which was presented in Donetsk by Kirill Cherkashin, head of the sociological service of the Center for Political Science.

    You at least took the trouble to find out what kind of office it is before throwing it on this site with a clever look >>
    Address:

    st. Universitetskaya, 24, office 48
    Donetsk, 83001, Ukraine We are located on the 4th floor of the History Department of Donetsk National University (look at the map of Google)

    http://www.cps.dn.ua/p/blog-page_02.html

    A small desk is clearly biased for the European integration of Ukraine ..
    Center

    The Center for Political Science Research is a regional think tank, which was founded in 1992 as a non-profit public organization supported by the Open Society Institute.

    The mission of the Center is to provide professional analytical support to pro-European democratic transformations in the region and Ukraine, contribute to active youth, develops their skills and abilities to the benefit of the local community.
    1. varov14
      varov14 5 November 2013 13: 35
      +6
      If everyone in the family explains to his own child who he is and where his ancestors are from, then any center can put his sponsor money in ... for a reason. If, by virtue of our own laziness, we entrust this to someone else’s uncle, then we should not blame the future result.
  • Black Colonel
    Black Colonel 5 November 2013 13: 57
    +1
    These young people have nothing to compare the current situation in the "country" with
  • Don
    Don 5 November 2013 15: 57
    +5
    Quote: cashpoint
    Poll: 75% of Donetsk youth consider themselves Ukrainians

    Quote: cashpoint
    Over the years of Ukraine’s independence, a young generation has grown up in Donetsk, which primarily identifies itself with Ukraine and the Ukrainian nation.

    Quote: cashpoint
    conducted by the Center for Political Science Research

    Oh come on you. How many times already have these different social questions provided. We know how these social issues are made. At best 2000 people will be interviewed. And who pays the social question, he receives the desired result. The real social question is a referendum; everything else is nonsense. Moreover, the Center for Political Science Research. Go to his site. Generally not a biased organization. laughing And youth is a loose concept. How old is this? 10,15,20,25,30? I’m 30 years old, what am I to the old people? laughing My nephew is 25, a programmer at my company 25 and they voted for the Communists and are unlikely to consider themselves Ukrainians. All these social questions are nonsense.
  • APASUS
    APASUS 5 November 2013 23: 09
    +1
    Quote: cashpoint
    A new social movement is being formed in Ukraine - Russian-Speaking Ukrainian Nationalists (RUN)

    Have you read this article yourself?
    Do you identify yourself with Ukrainian nationalists or you just can’t share pride in your history, nation from slogan-skinned slogans?
    I feel sorry for you
    1. cashpoint
      cashpoint 6 November 2013 00: 12
      0
      Nationalism (French nationalisme) is an ideology and a policy direction, the fundamental principle of which is the thesis of the value of a nation as the highest form of social unity and its primacy in the state-building process. It is characterized by a variety of currents, some of them contradict each other. As a political movement, nationalism seeks to uphold the interests of a certain national community in relations with state power.
      At its core, nationalism preaches fidelity and loyalty to its nation, political independence and work for the benefit of its own people, cultural and spiritual growth, the unification of national identity for the practical protection of the living conditions of the nation, its territory of residence, economic resources and spiritual values. It relies on a national feeling that is akin to patriotism.
  • domokl
    domokl 5 November 2013 08: 18
    16
    In principle, what was required was done. A generation of Russians and Ukrainians has grown up, who are no longer bound by anything ... It remains for us to die and everything will be as planned.
    It's a pity, of course, but like the author of the article, we will accept the situation ... There are very few left ...
    1. Oberst_71
      Oberst_71 5 November 2013 09: 33
      +5
      the connecting links still remained, about 10 years old. Ukrainian and Belarus officers from the 1989-1993 graduation still serve, and this is a rather impressive percentage. then yes!
    2. Orel
      Orel 5 November 2013 09: 36
      +5
      Modern Ukrainian history rejects or rewrites many of its milestones. This is a very dangerous path. We have not given up our history, and therefore we want to live in our country (despite such abominations as corruption and so on). We have something to fight for, for the glory and in memory of our ancestors, to fight, to preserve the legacy they have won for us and to increase it. But Ukraine refuses to share history with Russia, and therefore rejects our common ancestors. A tree without roots cannot grow, much less bear fruit. I wish Ukraine to develop, but there is no certainty that this will come true. And it’s not even a matter of European integration - let it be, the matter is in what ways these goals are achieved ...
      1. cashpoint
        cashpoint 5 November 2013 09: 43
        -23 qualifying.
        Well, what do you want the history of Russia was written to justify the Russian Empire, many historical facts and studies were hushed up and interpreted differently from the historical context. In Ukraine, they simply began to consider all these facts. I am sure that the Russians do not know anything about the Grand Duchy of Lithuania (except for scientific circles), but it was a Slavic state and it existed for more than 500 years and it was called Ruska in Ukraine, it is all studied and naturally Muscovy, after revealing historical facts and historical research, begins to look different .
        1. Hort
          Hort 5 November 2013 12: 48
          +7
          The Grand Duchy of Lithuania and Russia existed, yeah. Moreover, this was the only Slavic state in the 14th century, where paganism was practically a state religion. He fought with Moscow for influence and the right to control other Russian lands, including Kiev (yes, yes, the Principality of Kiev was also Russian).
          Later, the Principality of Lithuania united with the Poles in the Commonwealth.

          The usual course of Russian history, the scientific community has nothing to do with it.
          1. Hort
            Hort 5 November 2013 13: 55
            +1
            I add: the union of the Litvin with the Poles was their strategic mistake (in my opinion). It was necessary to conduct such negotiations with Moscow
            1. lordinicus
              lordinicus 5 November 2013 14: 07
              -5
              Quote: hort
              I add: the union of the Litvin with the Poles was their strategic mistake (in my opinion). It was necessary to conduct such negotiations with Moscow

              At that moment, Moscow as a state did not exist, it was just a relatively strong city and that was it. And at that moment in time there was a very serious problem of TATAR, they shredded and destroyed all the assets and united for protection.
              1. Don
                Don 5 November 2013 16: 05
                +2
                Quote: lordinicus
                Moscow as a state at that moment did not exist, it was just a relatively strong city

                You're not right. The Union of Lublin, which created the Commonwealth, was in 1568. Then there was already the Muscovite kingdom, larger than the Grand Duchy of Lithuania in size.
                1. lordinicus
                  lordinicus 5 November 2013 16: 18
                  0
                  I spoke about the creation of the Principality of Lithuania, when Kiev and most of the current Ukrainian lands entered it, and this was just when Moscow was a strong city.
                  The Commonwealth is a separate issue.
                  1. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 6 November 2013 01: 07
                    0
                    Quote: lordinicus
                    I spoke about the creation of the Principality of Lithuania, when Kiev and most of the current Ukrainian lands entered it

                    Not so fast. The ON turned off both Kiev and part of the current Ukrainian lands from the Tatars. And the rule is there until they donated these lands to Poland at the conclusion of the Union of Lublin.
                    Ukraine had nothing to do with the creation of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, rather, on the contrary, tried to counter this, it is enough to recall the joint campaign of the Mongol-Tatars and the troops of Daniil Galitsky against Black Rus.
                2. cashpoint
                  cashpoint 6 November 2013 00: 15
                  -5
                  Fragments of conversations with the Russian writer Mikhail Weller, and the Russian historian, a specialist in Ancient Russia until the end of the XNUMXth century. Doctor of Historical Sciences Igor Nikolaevich Danilevsky.
                3. cashpoint
                  cashpoint 6 November 2013 01: 30
                  -1
                  Quote: Don
                  The Union of Lublin, which created the Commonwealth, was in 1568.


                  The Grand Duchy of Lithuania became one of the largest states in Europe. It was the union of a large number of lands, in which power was in the hands of the local nobility under the leadership of the Grand Duke.

                  Since 1398, the state was called the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, Russian and Zhemaitiysky.

                  Most of the population of the principality was made up of Slavs who inhabited 9/10 of its lands. Ancient Russian speech, culture, laws (Russian truth) and customs were dominant in the principality.
                  By the middle of the 14th century The Grand Duchy of Lithuania was fully formed as a centralized state, and significantly expanded its territory. This expansion was mainly due to the inclusion of the Belarusian and Ukrainian principalities in the ON.
                  1. Don
                    Don 6 November 2013 12: 09
                    -1
                    Quote: cashpoint
                    It was the union of a large number of lands, in which power was in the hands of the local nobility under the leadership of the Grand Duke.

                    That is, now the seizure by one state of the lands of other states is called the union. Oh well. So Germany in the 39th, the Czech Republic is not captured, but entered it into an alliance.
                    Quote: cashpoint
                    Since 1398, the state was called the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, Russian and Zhemaitiysky.

                    On all European maps of that time it is designated as the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, and you have something special. Where does this information come from? What sources?
                    Quote: cashpoint
                    Most of the population of the principality was made up of Slavs who inhabited 9/10 of its lands.

                    Of course. So what? The majority of the population of the Roman Empire were also not Romans.
                    Quote: cashpoint
                    Ancient Russian speech, culture, laws (Russian truth) and customs were dominant in the principality.

                    laughing What nonsense. Where did you read that?
                    Quote: cashpoint
                    The Grand Duchy of Lithuania was fully formed as a centralized state, and significantly expanded its territory. This expansion was mainly due to the inclusion of the Belarusian and Ukrainian principalities in the ON.

                    Well, so what? And here it is? Do you remember what dialogue is about? You ON call the Slavic state.
                    Quote: cashpoint
                    I am sure that the Russians do not know anything about the Grand Duchy of Lithuania (except for scientific circles), but it was a Slavic state

                    Only you cannot understand. If the Roman Empire captured, for example, the Greek cities of the state from this, it did not become Greek. If she captured Gaul from this she did not become Galician.
          2. Walker1975
            Walker1975 5 November 2013 19: 28
            0
            Well, yes ... Hymn "Theotokos" at the pagan principality ...
            1. Hort
              Hort 6 November 2013 09: 55
              0
              it was later, when they entered into a personal union with the Polish king and Jagiello adopted Catholicism
        2. Don
          Don 5 November 2013 15: 47
          +1
          Quote: cashpoint
          I am sure that the Russians do not know anything about the Grand Duchy of Lithuania (except for scientific circles), but it was a Slavic state

          What? What nonsense. Slavic lands were included in it, but this state was not Slavic. In fact, ON was founded by Gedemin. Is that a Slavic name? You yourself would read the story.
          Quote: cashpoint
          and it existed over 500 years

          laughing Well, you definitely read the story.
          Quote: cashpoint
          naturally Muscovy after the disclosure of historical facts and historical research begins to look different.

          After these delusional so-called facts, it is interesting how the Moscow kingdom will look like? Not Slavic? What are you hinting I don’t understand.
          1. Walker1975
            Walker1975 5 November 2013 19: 34
            -7
            What will the principality of Moscow look like? As the heiress of the Horde, annexed Slavic lands, and then took their name :)))

            Here is the territory ON. The territory of the Dnieper basin. This is Russia
            1. Setrac
              Setrac 5 November 2013 19: 56
              +5
              Quote: Walker1975
              Here is the territory ON. The territory of the Dnieper basin. This is Russia

              And the proof is a map of the 20th century? In the spirit of modern history, make unproven statements.
            2. Don
              Don 6 November 2013 12: 29
              +1
              Quote: Walker1975
              What will the principality of Moscow look like? As the heiress of the Horde, annexed Slavic lands, and then took their name :)))

              Are you joking now or do you really consider the Moscow kingdom the heir to the horde? In this case, you have come to the corny Russophobic insanity of Farion. By your logic, China, Iran, Kazakhstan, Vietnam, Romania, Burma, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Azerbaijan and others are also the heirs of the Mongol Empire. All of them were part of it. Korea in general should be an heir because she, like the principalities of Kievan Rus, was a vassal of the Mongols. Moreover, the Mongol-Tatars of their land vassals did not populate. Do you understand that you are talking nonsense?
              Before the invasion of Batu Khan into Russia, the principalities of Kievan Rus were independent, whether it was the Vladimir, Kiev or Ryazan principality. And they were all inhabited by Eastern Slavs. After the Mongol invasion on the territory of Kievan Rus, many small principalities were created, including Moscow. All of them were in vassal submission to the Golden Horde (Ulus of Batu Khan). The princes in these principalities had to approve of the khan. The princes were supposed to pay tribute, but the Mongols did not populate their territory. Then Lithuania strengthened and captured the vassal lands of the Golden Horde, a number of former territories of Kievan Rus. And the Moscow principality strengthened, which captured the neighboring principalities and managed to get out of the vassal subordination of the Golden Horde.
              This is a short history course that any normal historian will tell you, either a French, German or Russian historian. And then Lithuania has already begun to be called the Slavic state, and the Moscow principality is Tatar.
              1. Walker1975
                Walker1975 8 November 2013 15: 28
                0
                Actually, I was joking :) I don’t need to read a history course.
                1. Don
                  Don 11 November 2013 12: 04
                  0
                  Quote: Walker1975
                  Actually, I was joking :) I don’t need to read a history course.

                  Then I didn’t understand why you placed the map of Lithuania?
                  1. Walker1975
                    Walker1975 11 November 2013 20: 17
                    0
                    The joke was that Moscow was the heir to the horde, but the fact that the Grand Duchy of Lithuania has no less rights to be considered the heir to Russia is serious.
                2. Don
                  Don 11 November 2013 12: 04
                  0
                  Quote: Walker1975
                  Actually, I was joking :) I don’t need to read a history course.

                  Then I didn’t understand why you placed the map of Lithuania?
          2. cashpoint
            cashpoint 6 November 2013 00: 49
            -2
            Quote: Don
            his? What nonsense. Slavic lands were included in it, but this state was not Slavic.



            The battle of Orsha took place on September 8, 1514 between the combined forces of the Lithuanian and Polish states, under the command of Prince Konstantin Ivanovich Ostrozhsky against the army of the Moscow state under the command of governor Ivan Chelyadnin and Mikhail Golitsa. As a result, 30 thousand soldiers of Konstantin Ostrogsky defeated the Moscow army, in which there were 80 thousand people. After this battle, Hetman Konstantin Ivanovich Ostrogsky received a nickname from his contemporaries Scipio Rusky. It is obvious that contemporaries knew better who was actually called Rus.
            http://www.day.kiev.ua/ru/article/ukraina-incognita/vtoroy-gannibal-russkiy
            1. Don
              Don 6 November 2013 13: 03
              -1
              Oh my God. I repeat once again. If the Roman Empire conquered Gaul, it did not become Galician from this. Part of the aristocracy of the countries captured by Rome over time adopted the customs and laws of Rome and eventually merged with the Roman nobility. They served in the Roman army and sometimes held the posts of military commanders. The same is true for the Ostrog family. The West Russian princely family, whose representatives from the end of the XIV century held high government posts in the Grand Duchy of Lithuania and the Commonwealth, owned huge estates on the territory of modern Ukraine and Belarus. From this they do not become Lithuanians. From this Lithuania does not become Russian or Slavic.
              Quote: cashpoint
              As a result, 30 thousand soldiers of Konstantin Ostrogsky defeated the Moscow army, in which there were 80 thousand people.

              laughing Well, of course. Alexander of Macedon also said that at the Battle of Gaugamela he defeated the millionth Persian army. King Sigismund in his epistle to Pope Leo X reports about a “horde of Muscovites” of 80 thousand people. At the same time, the modern Polish historian T. Bohun notes that “frivolity would be to accept Sigismund propaganda data, which estimates the army of Chelyadnin at 80 thousand people. " According to the Polish researcher M. Gembarovich, the number of Russian troops was about 40 thousand. According to estimates of the Polish historian Z. Zhigulsky, there were about 35000 people under the command of Ostrog, including 15000 Lithuanian Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealths, 17000 mercenary Polish cavalry and infantry with good artillery, and 3000 volunteer cavalry set up by Polish magnates.
              Quote: cashpoint
              Ostrog received from his contemporaries the nickname Scipio Rusky. It is obvious that contemporaries knew better who was actually called Rus.

              Of course Scipio Rusky, not Chinese. He was a Slav, not a Lithuanian or a Pole.
              PS The Russians won the war, and defeated your Ostrog at the Battle of Vedrosh and captured. laughing
            2. Setrac
              Setrac 6 November 2013 21: 55
              -1
              Quote: cashpoint
              As a result, 30 thousand soldiers of Konstantin Ostrogsky defeated the Moscow army, in which there were 80 thousand people.

              Why not 80 million? Do not be shy.
        3. Avenger711
          Avenger711 5 November 2013 15: 56
          +7
          The Grand Duchy of Lithuania and Russia ceased to be a possible center for the unification of Russia in 1385 after the union. Otherwise, it is exactly the same large fragment of Kievan Rus, as the Moscow principality and at a separate stage Tverskoy competed with it. The last unoccupied foreigners, like Little Russia, an independent formation remained Novgorod, which was already annexed by Ivan the Terrible. After that, Russia gradually gathered land on which the Russian population was second-class people. That is precisely why over the centuries of foreign domination it did not assimilate, that they did not want to accept it, just like anybody else, although in the 17th century it was hardly possible to distinguish between the villages of Ukraine of Little Russia where Russian dialects end and Polish already begins, neither Austrians.

          Although I came across one degenerate, and a degenerate in everything I tried to judge, with a brain affected by liberalism in the last stage, who argued that the GDL was a Belarusian-speaking state, which even pedivikia, as a collection of all possible historical myths, does not dare to assert. This is about 600 years before Lenin and Trotsky with their ridiculous ideas of "Great Russian chauvinism" and attempts at indigenousism, when the Belarusians were suddenly announced that they were a separate people.
          1. lordinicus
            lordinicus 5 November 2013 16: 22
            +1
            Quote: Avenger711
            Belarusian state

            I talked with a girl from Belarus, so she knows all the knights of Lithuania of the year of birth and death. He is not interested in history at all. In Belarus, it is written in textbooks and make it learn. She also said that, in essence, the Principality of Lithuania is proto-Belarus. In what, and here we swear - who is cooler.
            1. Setrac
              Setrac 5 November 2013 16: 48
              +2
              Quote: lordinicus
              . She also said that, in essence, the Principality of Lithuania is proto-Belarus.

              Correctly speaking, the Belarusians are the heirs of the Lithuanian principality, and not "zhmud goggle-eyed."
            2. Avenger711
              Avenger711 6 November 2013 00: 30
              0
              Only in the sense that Litvinians are Belarusians in the narrow sense. In broad, any subject is ON. But the Lithuanians here are not at all involved. If dates are taught in the textbooks, then these are their problems, I didn’t bother with a particularly Belarusian issue. The history of White Russia is not limited.
              1. Setrac
                Setrac 6 November 2013 21: 58
                0
                Quote: Avenger711
                But the Lithuanians here are not at all involved.

                You are absolutely right, the Lithuanians are completely out of business here, the titular nation in the Grand Duchy of Lithuania was the Litvinians - now Belarusians.
            3. Don
              Don 6 November 2013 13: 10
              0
              Quote: lordinicus
              She also said that, in essence, the Principality of Lithuania is proto-Belarus. In what, and here we swear - who is cooler.

              laughing In fact, this girl needs to be taught history, not just names to learn.
        4. Dmitriy1975
          Dmitriy1975 5 November 2013 18: 10
          0
          You simply amaze with the knowledge of the history of the Russian Empire, and for example, do you know the history of your national flag?
        5. domokl
          domokl 5 November 2013 20: 16
          +1
          Quote: cashpoint
          cashpoint UA Today, 09: 43 ↑

          Well, what do you want the history of Russia was written to justify the Russian Empire m

          The history of Russia was written as the history of Russia ... And the principalities and kingdoms and empires including .. But the history of Ukraine was already written with us ... This story, and my attitude to Ukraine, was perfectly expressed by my son ... Having read that, what am I writing about our relationship, he said bullshit .. Dad, you fought on your own ... Ukrainians shot me, and I shot them ... And do you really think that I will sincerely talk about fraternity our peoples? I can tailor the face so that it’s like a smile, but I always remember in my soul, they’re enemies .. And they turned those who were next to me into tr ex ...
          Terrible words, but these words are already technical to veterans and pensioners to serve as a three-ruble note in the USSR ...
          1. cashpoint
            cashpoint 6 November 2013 00: 20
            -6
            Quote: domokl
            The history of Russia was written as the history of Russia ...

            The well-known Russian historian, academician of the ROUAN Evgeny Ponasenkov talks about why Kutuzov's army, outnumbering the enemy and defending the "first-capital city", lost to Borodino, who is guilty of the death of Moscow and, in general, the unleashing of the conflict, how engaged authors created myths about the war 1812, how this local campaign of Napoleon in Russia and the civil war unfolding against its background between peasants and landowners were turned by ideologists into a "patriotic" war.
            1. Hudo
              Hudo 6 November 2013 00: 29
              +2
              Quote: cashpoint
              Famous Russian scientist-historian Yevgeny Ponasenkov


              Ponasenkov? Do you speak a historian? No, I have not heard!

              Evgeny Nikolaevich Ponasenkov is a well-known film and theater director, scientist-historian, publicist, TV presenter. Member of the Expert Council of the Federal Portal of Financial Literacy. In recent years, as a director, Eugene has worked a lot in Europe, gives master classes in acting and aesthetics of theatrical space.

              In short, the jack of all trades - tin-solder, stand on your hands, bend nails and blow into the tune.

              Among other things, along with such characters as Lyudmila Alekseeva, Lev Ponomarev is a member of the Independent Council for Human Rights - affection! laughing nothing to say.
              1. cashpoint
                cashpoint 6 November 2013 00: 55
                0
                What is your academic title? Can you give a reference to your scientific works? Or are you still in school?
                1. zardoz
                  zardoz 6 November 2013 01: 03
                  0
                  Are you asking yourself this?
                2. Hudo
                  Hudo 6 November 2013 01: 03
                  +1
                  Quote: cashpoint
                  What is your academic title? Can you give a reference to your scientific works?


                  The transition to personality is a sure sign of the absence of arguments.

                  Quote: cashpoint
                  Or are you still in school?


                  Dare, please cashpoint mazepovich. Apparently they are not capable of more.
                3. Don
                  Don 6 November 2013 13: 21
                  +1
                  Quote: cashpoint
                  What is your academic title? Can you give a reference to your scientific works? Or are you still in school?

                  And what is your scientific work? Give links to non-reputable sites and not to reputable people posing as pure truth. You would at least think about what you wrote about the Great Patriotic War of 1812. Especially with regard to delirium about
                  Quote: cashpoint
                  civil war between peasants and landowners
                  . This is not even funny. Watch an interview with French historians before writing this nonsense. I understand that you are a Russophobe, but at least it’s not the same nonsense to write.
          2. Corneli
            Corneli 6 November 2013 05: 53
            0
            Quote: domokl
            Dad, you fought ... Ukrainians shot at me, and I shot at them ... And do you really think that I will sincerely talk about the brotherhood of our peoples? I can hide my face so that it looks like a smile, forever remembered the soul, they are enemies .. And they turned those who were next to me in the three hundredth ...

            We already had a war! belay The Ukrainian armies shot at the Russian ... how much I missed however ....
            P.S. And on the street your son, his compatriots (God forbid, of course) didn’t shoot? Did not try to beat, rob, cut? And if there was such a thing and they were the purest Russians, then what? He will begin to hate them (in the sense of the whole people, including himself)?
    3. Corsair
      Corsair 5 November 2013 11: 03
      +4
      Quote: domokl
      In principle, what was required was done. A generation of Russians and Ukrainians has grown up, who are no longer bound by anything ... It remains for us to die and everything will be as planned.

      In contrast to the "extinction" of the idea of ​​the unity of the peoples of the ex-USSR, Russia can and should oppose its own, in some ways, an aggressive policy of involving the youth of the former republics in its sphere of influence.
      Only by popularizing the advantage of the "Russian way" can the trend be reversed.
      And for that WE NEED TO BECOME BETTER AND SUCCESSFUL.
      1. domokl
        domokl 5 November 2013 20: 26
        0
        Quote: Corsair
        Russia can and should oppose its own,

        In some strange world I live all my life .. Nobody borrow anything, but all the time I owe something to someone ... And now my country must .. But isn’t it enough to be a debtor not occupying anything? Why Americans or Europeans just live and that’s all ... They live first of all for their country, for their city, village, for their children, for themselves in the end? Why should someone drag the drag to themselves, to their own detriment?
        They want to try to live differently is the right of every person, every state ... they want to live with us .. We will see if we need it ... Dragging Ukraine to the TS-UP is scumbagging .. For that, under any conditions he wants to become a geyropa ..feather her in ... hands ... so that the wind helps to become gay ...
    4. varov14
      varov14 5 November 2013 13: 48
      0
      "We will accept the current situation." If we accept the current situation, then Europe will be Arab-African, but in our country, most likely, the Chinese are numerous, hardworking, impudent.
    5. ale-x
      ale-x 5 November 2013 15: 25
      +1
      Quote: domokl
      It remains for us to die and everything will be as planned.

      And it seems that they will have to die not together, but in turn.
  • Max_Bauder
    Max_Bauder 5 November 2013 09: 36
    +8
    It seems to me that the author is not alone, there are many in the post-Soviet space who have taken away their homeland and given a new hostile old one. Soviet man did not have a nationality, in the sense that he was a patriot of a common Motherland and not his national state.
    1. klimpopov
      klimpopov 5 November 2013 10: 27
      +2
      Yes, I agree, while the generation born in the 60's is alive, the memory of a great country with true achievements is still alive, but it’s 50 years old ...
      1. Russ69
        Russ69 5 November 2013 12: 02
        +3
        Quote: klimpopov
        Yes, I agree, while the generation born in the 60's is alive, the memory of a great country with true achievements is still alive, but it’s 50 years old ...

        For a while, it will be so. But if, the gap between Russia and Ukraine, the quality of life will widen. That will again pop up the general story that they lived in one country and why not bring everything back ... History, as a rule, repeats itself.
    2. Algor73
      Algor73 5 November 2013 11: 13
      +8
      And who then destroyed this Union, if not a Soviet man? They just broke up and thought that we would heal! And healed? Remember the 1991 (all-Ukrainian) referendum on the independence of Ukraine. All voted in favor, even Crimea gave 54% (the lowest result, Sevastopol - 57%). Who can we trust now? Uncle came and ruined? No. We destroyed it ourselves. Only now nobody wants to rebuild it. More precisely, we ourselves want (the people), but the trouble is, the top no longer wants. The same VVP (I don't see from his deeds that he is trying), the same AHL (the union state only on paper), the same VFYa ...
      1. Hudo
        Hudo 5 November 2013 11: 22
        10
        Quote: Algor73
        Remember the 1991 (all-Ukrainian) referendum on the independence of Ukraine. All voted in favor, even Crimea gave 54% (the lowest result, Sevastopol - 57%).


        Well, I do not believe in the results of this rahfverendum and all!
        Argument: At that time, my relative was studying at one of the military schools in western Ukraine, and after that I talked "referenda" with him and his fellow cadets while passing through there. They were quite surprised by the result of 85% "FOR", when communicating with each other it became clear that all whoever asked voted against. I doubt that even the ballots were counted - they consulted the order issued through Kiev from the Fashington Regional Committee, and entered a completely inflated figure in the protocol.
    3. Semurg
      Semurg 5 November 2013 13: 47
      +1
      RI and the USSR were states educated by the Russian people, therefore Russians were everywhere, after the collapse of the USSR 15 states were formed and the Russians were faced with the choice of either recognizing these states as their homeland and trying to integrate or leave for Russia. Each Russian makes his choice justifying his decision with his worldly experience, education and understanding of his future. The author also needs to make a choice or become a citizen of Ukraine with all the rights and obligations arising from this, or migrate to another country. There is a third way, but it is often bloody, I would not want the new states to follow it.
      1. Setrac
        Setrac 5 November 2013 15: 39
        +3
        Quote: Semurg
        RI and the USSR were states educated by the Russian people, therefore Russians were everywhere, after the collapse of the USSR 15 states were formed and the Russians were faced with the choice of either recognizing these states as their homeland and trying to integrate or leave for Russia.

        You see, dear, the role of the Russians in the creation of these fifteen territorial entities, which eventually became states, is in no way less than the role of the indigenous population, and in most cases much more, so they quite rightly count on at least equality. But there is a "indigenous" population - greedy, vain, dishonest (not all, far from all), who do not want equality, but want to be higher than the Russians.
  • AVV
    AVV 5 November 2013 10: 35
    +5
    So Yanukovych became Mazepa of the 21st century, the new Ukrainian state, which, trying to deceive both Europe and Russia, will deceive itself as a result !!! Trying to sit down on two chairs at once, it will turn out to be sitting on a side stool, and possibly for a very long time !!! he now has no time to think about the people! He must think about himself!
    1. lordinicus
      lordinicus 5 November 2013 13: 48
      -6
      Quote: AVV
      So Yanukovych became Mazepa of the 21st century, the new Ukrainian state, which, trying to deceive both Europe and Russia, will deceive itself as a result !!! Trying to sit down on two chairs at once, it will turn out to be sitting on a side stool, and possibly for a very long time !!! he now has no time to think about the people! He must think about himself!

      And who told you such a scumbag about Mazepa?
  • JIaIIoTb
    JIaIIoTb 5 November 2013 07: 46
    14
    On November 28 it will be possible to say that the Rubicon has been crossed. It remains only to observe how the deluded "sober up". And how those who understood what would happen next "satan".
    1. domokl
      domokl 5 November 2013 08: 23
      10
      Quote: JIaIIoTb
      On November 28 it will be possible to say that the Rubicon has been crossed.

      It has already been crossed. And not economically, but ideologically. Read the comments of youth .. Especially disputes. Arguments are no longer important. Neither for Russians nor for Ukrainians ... Foam at the mouth and the ability to bite your opponent is important ...
      28 will simply legally formalize Ukraine’s exit from the Slavic brotherhood, if you will.
      1. smersh70
        smersh70 5 November 2013 09: 08
        +1
        Quote: domokl
        28 will simply legally formalize Ukraine’s exit from the Slavic brotherhood, if you will.

        Yes, there will be nothing of this .. Yanukovych will admit the entrance to the vehicle and that's all))) and immediately articles and odes will go here dedicated to Yanukovych about how fluffy he is, a true Slav and how good he is fellow
        1. domokl
          domokl 5 November 2013 09: 28
          +6
          Quote: smersh70
          Yes, there will be nothing of this .. Yanukovych will admit the entrance to the vehicle and that's all))

          Do you think that all these troubles with the signing of European integration are nothing more than an attempt to knock out some kind of privilege for Ukraine? A well-known point of view. Not only Putin decides the TS. Yes, and the mood of the leaders of the TS is quite formidable.
          Yanukovych has no way back. But how Germany will behave is really interesting ... the EU can just send Ukraine ... on ... more precisely to the CU laughing
          1. smersh70
            smersh70 5 November 2013 09: 40
            -1
            Quote: domokl
            You think all these troubles

            exactly like .. expressed my thoughts)))))
            Quote: domokl
            Only TS decides not one Putin

            this is his idea ... and there he is in charge ....
            Quote: domokl
            Yes, and the mood among the leaders of the vehicle

            yes they are there on the side laughing
            Quote: domokl
            The EU can simply send Ukraine ... more precisely to the CU

            laughing exactly !!!!!!!!
            Quote: domokl
            Only TS decides not one Putin

            the only problem so far with Putin’s TS is Azerbaijan ... Putin really wants to see rich Azerbaijan with its resources and geopolitical location in the TS .. Aliyev hasn’t said either yes or no ..... the information that Putin gave good for the liberation by Armenians of 5 districts at the initial stage ...... therefore Sargsyan slept at the summit wassat .
            1. Don
              Don 5 November 2013 16: 52
              +1
              Quote: smersh70
              this is his idea ... and there he is in charge ....

              His idea, but he is not the main one. All decisions are made unanimously.
              Quote: smersh70
              Putin really wants to see rich Azerbaijan with its resources and geopolitical location in the CU

              From an economic point of view, Azerbaijan just needs the CU, but from a political Putin.
  • FC SKIF
    FC SKIF 5 November 2013 08: 01
    +9
    2000 weekly is probably the only sane Ukrainian. print media. When I was in Ukraine, I read it all the time. I read and now online. Recommend.
  • makarov
    makarov 5 November 2013 08: 04
    11
    I will comment capaciously.

    It is ridiculous when a man who blooms heavily, having eaten a pound with his own power of salt, suddenly finds himself sad that he seems to be long ago ****

    Having a dream, food and labor, Destiny and authorities will not be rebuffed, And we are ruthlessly e ***, For which then they treat for free.
  • a52333
    a52333 5 November 2013 08: 05
    13
    83% of its respondents in Ukraine prefer to give interviews in Russian.
    The eradication of the mother tongue, which is spoken by the vast majority of the population, flagrant discrimination.
    1. domokl
      domokl 5 November 2013 08: 25
      10
      Quote: a52333
      The eradication of the mother tongue, which is spoken by the vast majority of the population, flagrant discrimination.

      And the best way to deprive the people of historical memory. And, it seems to me, this is the task that has been and is still with the rulers of Ukraine.
    2. seller trucks
      5 November 2013 11: 17
      +3
      even if we do not take into account the artificiality of the Ukrainian language, it doesn’t have a future anyway, according to British research, 40% of the languages ​​on the planet are doomed to extinction, and native speakers on Earth are less than 1%, so the extinction of the language will be caused by completely natural conditions, but not by the intrigues of moskales
      1. Avenger711
        Avenger711 5 November 2013 17: 12
        0
        It is already on, the Internet has only accelerated the final standardization of Russian. The percentage of speakers in 20 years has fallen.
        1. Corneli
          Corneli 6 November 2013 06: 05
          0
          Quote: Avenger711
          It is already on, the Internet has only accelerated the final standardization of Russian. The percentage of speakers in 20 years has fallen.

          OGO! This is where you heard such nonsense? Most of the Russian schools were converted to Ukrainian. training, towers - for Ukrainian training, TV - for Ukrainian. language, documentation, etc. in Ukrainian. language. But there are fewer "mobile speakers" in 20 years! Avenger believes it! fellow
  • makarov
    makarov 5 November 2013 08: 06
    0
    P.S. Sori forgot to add: - I.G.
  • vlad.svargin
    vlad.svargin 5 November 2013 08: 31
    +6
    I repeat, it is difficult to accept both the heart and the mind with a country with such a story (however, through and lying and false) and such “heroes”! It is obvious to any thinking person (and Maxim is not an exception, which he admits) that the “Project Ukraine” was artificially invented and implemented exclusively as a means of weakening and destroying Russia. Independence ideologists have pretty much tried to kill in the souls of people the sense of Soviet and Russian patriotism imbued with mother’s milk, and frighten the history of our Motherland, but at the same time they killed many people with the very ability to display such a high feeling as patriotism.

    The Ukrainization program was launched by Austria-Hungary at the end of the 1908th century, and this was based on the re-identification of the Little Russians and Galician Ruthenians into the so-called “Ukrainians”. By the way, neither the “moderate” Russophobe Taras Shevchenko, nor the “terry” Lesya Ukrainka have such terms as “Ukrainian”, “Ukrainian nation”, but there are Slavs, Little Russians, and Rusyns. But von Bismarck's plans began to be realized and, according to the census of 1, up to 1898% of the inhabitants of the south-west of Russia named themselves Ukrainians. In Germany, it was "scientifically proved" that the Russians are not Slavs or even Aryans (although the tribes from which the Germans and Slavs came out are called the Slavic-Germanic tribes), and the representatives of a Mongolian-Finnish tribe are "mankruts." In 1926, Germany launched the idea of ​​creating an "independent Ukrainian nation" within the framework of autonomy on the territory of Austria-Hungary. In the Vienna-controlled press, instead of the concepts “Russia”, “Russian”, the terms “Ukraine”, “Ukrainian”, etc. began to be replicated. In the memoirs of General Hoffmann in XNUMX, one can read: “The creation of Ukraine is not the result of the initiative of the Russian people, but the result of my intelligence. ”("Who invented Ukraine" .Newzz.in.ua)

    The article was published almost three years ago, but it is more topical than ever today, when the leaders of Ukraine, thinking only about their own well-being, completely forget about the Ukrainians themselves. The Slavs have nothing to do in Europe now. The crisis has not disappeared in Europe, but the program of hatred for Russia at the genetic level is still working. Though bad for the Europeans, but worse for the neighbor, the main thing is at least some kind of stone on the road to unification in the CU and "God forbid" in the EAC, the future competitor of the EU.
  • ZU-23
    ZU-23 5 November 2013 08: 40
    +3
    A commendable little article, they graduated from the country, people were forced to think anti-Orthodox, tears and only, but yes we and we are not that.
    1. O_RUS
      O_RUS 5 November 2013 09: 32
      +3
      Quote: ZU-23
      people forced to think anti-Orthodox


      Valentine can a man be forced to think that he is a woman?

      And some Ukrainians really succumbed and turned their backs on Russia.
      1. ZU-23
        ZU-23 5 November 2013 09: 42
        0
        so about identity, it was not necessary to allow such a part which turns against its own, but you look and the other part will turn, and which turned for a long time, then you should expect a shot in the back from that one. Everything, further on, the anti-Russian direction will only intensify more, time is already running for hours, at such a pace for another 10 years, and there will not even be a memory there as we slaughtered fascism together.
        1. O_RUS
          O_RUS 5 November 2013 14: 12
          +1
          Quote: ZU-23
          at such a pace for another 10 years and there will not even be a memory of how we slaughtered fascism together.


          I agree with you.
          WWII veterans are now oppressed and beaten on May 9th. To prevent the beating of veterans on May 9 is real, but nonetheless it was in Ukraine.

          Think about it - WWII veterans were beaten in Ukraine on May 9.
  • biglow
    biglow 5 November 2013 08: 50
    +8
    The people in Ukraine are slowly waking up. The Natsiks cannot be changed, but those who understand where everything is heading a lot more.
    There is a branch of Moscow State University in Sevastopol, whoever studies there can continue their education in Moscow, so children are brought there even from western Ukraine. And these are days from the few universities where they study Russian in Ukraine. Many people understand that with a Ukrainian diploma you can only wash toilets in Europe ...
    1. seller trucks
      5 November 2013 11: 29
      +2
      Quote: biglow
      The people in Ukraine are slowly waking up. The Natsiks cannot be changed, but those who understand where everything is heading a lot more.


      Yes, the people in general did not sleep, the question is different, no one ever took his opinion into account and did not take into account him, the titular minority won in Ukraine, which carries out its Russophobic policy, and if we also take into account the results of the last elections in the VR, so this "svobodovskaya" scum is popular with the population.
  • 528Obrp
    528Obrp 5 November 2013 08: 55
    +2
    “Project Georgia” has already “been”, “Project Ukraine” is a road in the same direction.
    1. seller trucks
      5 November 2013 11: 34
      +3
      you are behind life he is already called the Ruin project
  • Echo
    Echo 5 November 2013 09: 33
    +3
    It is just that all our sensible compatriots in Ukraine need to unite and raise the question of reunification with Russia. And you need to do this directly, and do not be shy to take power. There will be no sense from Yanukovosch, this elderly kid has overstepped.
    1. afire
      afire 5 November 2013 10: 08
      0
      Yanuk, as normally pumped up by the loot of lobbyists for sales of raw materials to the EU, will never back down from joining, since any of his candelabra will end for him disastrously. And he has nowhere to go. To find
      1. afire
        afire 5 November 2013 12: 52
        +5

        Residents of Crimea burned the EU flag
        1. lordinicus
          lordinicus 5 November 2013 13: 32
          -3
          Quote: afire
          Residents of Crimea burned the EU flag

          Three Crimean residents burned the EU flag. Crowds are not visible
          1. afire
            afire 5 November 2013 14: 21
            +7
            read your Vladik (lordinicus) comments.
            All in anticipation of super-life, I suppose? mmm?
            And what will you do in Europe? just wondering.
            Probably you already consider honestly earned money and now are you going to start the construction of your 2-storey house?
            No, I am only for the fact that your dreams would come true, sincerely! Only now I have a fear that later, when you feel bad and hungry, again you, Vladik, will blame us. I don't know why, I just think so. Do not be offended by us, we sincerely want the good for you. And yet - there is no way back, and if there is, then without the rabid Western screamers (they can now be easily seen by the national zamashki, even when the time comes to hide them) and, accordingly, with the official return of Crimea and the rest of Ukraine to our jurisdiction. Such is the dear price of your "independence" - see Vladik himself. You see yourself as masters and lords of Europe, and the halopian habits. You shouldn't be so yourself on the asphalt. Oh, in vain.
            1. lordinicus
              lordinicus 5 November 2013 14: 35
              +1
              Quote: afire
              read your Vladik (lordinicus) comments.
              All in anticipation of super-life, I suppose? mmm?
              And what will you do in Europe? just wondering.
              Probably you already consider honestly earned money and now are you going to start the construction of your 2-storey house?
              No, I'm only for the fact that your dreams would come true, sincerely! Only now I have a fear that later, when you feel bad and hungry, again you, Vladik, will blame us. I don't know why, I just think so. Do not be offended by us, we sincerely want the good for you. And yet - there is no way back, and if there is, then without rabid screamers-Westerners (they can now be easily seen by national zamashki, even when the time comes to hide them) and, accordingly, with the official return of Crimea and the rest of Ukraine to our jurisdiction. Such is the dear price of your "independence" - see Vladik himself.

              I don’t think it would be better with EC. I think that in Europe it will be bad much worse than without it. It is a fairy tale that Europe is waiting for us. In Europe, they shield us for bydLo, he himself came across because he was there. And to tell that it will be better when EC is complete nonsense.

              If you want to know afire my opinion, it will be better under the Customs Union than under the EU, but how Russia behaves terrifies me. Note Russia doesn’t say we don’t buy your wagons because you are stomping in the EU, we don’t buy your Shekolade because you are stomping in the EU. Russia says "it does not meet some standards" - but in fact it is pressure on Ukraine.
              This is called CINNISM! If so without the vehicle what happens with the vehicle! It scares me a little. In BLUE Europe, they do not suffer from cynicism.

              If I had my will, I wouldn’t join the CU or the EU, which is all that is needed. A lot of countries live normally and without these nonsense. It's just that oligarchs and billionaires are sharing their money, so they came up with the CU and the EU, but what about me? What Akhmetov will add to my salary (he owns the cantor where I work), and figs that he will give, dismiss yes! But raise her RFP.

              Here you are, dear friend afire - what will the vehicle give us? I don’t understand what the Customs Union will give us, that’s what the EU will give us heresies written in a bunch! It is clear that the oligarchs will get more profit, and specifically, what will it give your friends? Answer, I gave an exhaustive answer to your question, give me now.
              1. afire
                afire 5 November 2013 15: 13
                +1
                Well, you are certainly handsome!
                In your opinion, should we give you presentations just because you are so beautiful? Well, dear, it doesn’t. Ukraine decides what to do - but for God's sake! but what do we have to do with it? why should you live well at our own expense? In response, we hear your desire for the EU and a bunch of boastful screams about what we, moskali, bastards and do not want to cooperate with you. You know, here you need to start a constructive dialogue to start on mutual benefits, and not just yours. For example, it’s unpleasant for me to see statements about the EU every time - some kind of jealousy, as if my sister were leaving for the killer guy. It’s a pity that the krovushka is dear.

                But cynicism - an open, defiant, disdainful and contemptuous attitude to the norms of public morality, cultural values ​​and ideas of decency, a negative, nihilistic attitude to generally accepted norms of morality, to the official dogmas of the prevailing ideology. Behavior expressing conscious and demonstrative disregard for certain moral values. - this is not for us, it concerns Ukraine in all respects.

                Do not ride your arguments. Separating from a family of nations and going to an incomprehensible old woman, hoping for a good life is ridiculous.
                And as for the pressure - no, no, again, this is our position that can change right away if we see the face of Ukraine, and not the ass.
                TS - open and understandable principles of trade between countries with certain benefits, including military. Where no one sucks the last of the economies, and vice versa - support each other
                1. lordinicus
                  lordinicus 5 November 2013 16: 04
                  +3
                  I thought you were from Ukraine, your flag is not Ukraine, I apologize.

                  Let me explain why I wrote this - in Ukraine, now the EU or the CU is "trading" in society. At these auctions, the EU advertises itself, but there is no CU! For me, as a person for whom the auction (Ukrainian) is arranged, it is not clear why I am not shown the benefits of the vehicle. We show only the advantages and disadvantages of the EU and that's it!
                  Perhaps you, as a non-Ukrainian, see it all differently, but in Ukraine this is a really banal bargaining. I know more about this "association with the EU" than about my own legislation, but I don't know anything about the CU, well, I really don't know, and my position in relation to the CU is vague. I do not see any advantages or disadvantages in the vehicle.

                  Explain to me the merits of the vehicle. I’m not sarcasm, I’m sitting on this forum for this. Give a link at least some.

                  Quote: afire
                  TS - open and understandable principles of trade between countries with certain benefits, including military. Where no one sucks the last of the economies, and vice versa - support each other


                  In Ukraine, not a single channel, not a single publication speaks about virtues. Moreover, in the Russian media, I also do not find a description of the advantages of the TS, nowhere else.
                  1. afire
                    afire 5 November 2013 17: 02
                    +1
                    I don’t know what to say about the lack of TS propaganda.

                    The Customs Union is an agreement of member countries on the abolition of customs duties and borders between them and the introduction of a single customs tariff for other states. The Customs Union was created in 2010, and starting July 1, 2011, a single customs territory was created with a full set of control functions along the outer perimeter and the Customs Union began to fully function. Currently, the Customs Union is formed of three states - Russia, Kazakhstan and Belarus. In the spring of 2011, Kyrgyzstan formally requested accession to the Customs Union, and earlier this year Ukraine, despite the warnings of the European Union, also began consultations on possible accession to the Customs Union.

                    The main goal of the Customs Union is the growth of the economies of the participating countries. With its formation, a common market of almost 180 million people has been created, with a combined GDP of $ 2 trillion and a turnover of $ 900 billion. Today, the countries of the Customs Union comprise almost 83% of the economic potential of the former THE USSR.

                    The Customs Union (CU) means the unhindered movement of goods throughout the single customs territory, where a single universal mechanism of customs and trade regulation, sanitary, veterinary, phytosanitary control operates.
                    1. Setrac
                      Setrac 5 November 2013 17: 14
                      +1
                      Quote: afire
                      The main goal of the Customs Union is the growth of the economies of the participating countries.

                      Here’s the trick: the organizing countries created the Customs Union on equal terms, those countries that join the CU will later adapt to the already existing majority.
                    2. lordinicus
                      lordinicus 5 November 2013 17: 37
                      0
                      Quote: afire
                      Today, countries participating in the Customs Union make up almost 83% of the economic potential of the former USSR.

                      With this I do not agree. The USSR in the USSR gave up to 1/3 of GDP. But in the TS there is neither Azeibardzhan nor the Baltic states nor Georgia, there cannot be 83% in principle, this is an advertisement :) which I was looking for by the way.

                      All of the above is very good for the oligarchs, more dough but no RFP is necessary to raise, plus clothes and food will not cost cheaper.

                      Relatively

                      Quote: afire
                      There is a single universal mechanism for customs and trade regulation, sanitary, veterinary, phytosanitary control.

                      I doubt that our Ukrainian oligarchs will blindly accept these standards, they will begin to press, so that they would change for them nowhere without it. Specifically for me, this means that what a lousy grub it was and remained to export our goods to Russia will not be obvious, and if they do, it will obviously not be a plus for you. I don’t know anything about the quality of food in Russia, so the quality of food is a dark ending. In the EU it offers very simply, "you have your own standards, we live peacefully and quietly", if you want your goods to come to us, certify it according to our standards. Euro standards are much cooler than Ukrainian ones and everyone knows that here.


                      What I call advertising here is a look I found on the go without exertion. About the TS I can’t find this.
                      http://img.pravda.com.ua/files/3/e/3e032ad-ugoda.html

                      The article is clearly custom-made ones pluses of the EU. There is no need to pay attention to TS, since it is custom-made.
                      That would be something like that about the customs union.


                      Studying the issue of the CU and the EU, I formed this opinion, I draw your attention to the fact that I am not a supporter of the EU.
                      For myself, I see the advantages:
                      - If the local Ukrainian bonzes get cut, I can dump the work into Europe legally.
                      - Grub will become cheaper because in Europe it is clearly cheaper I saw it!
                      - Grub in Europe is clearly of better quality than in Ukraine.
                      - Most likely to agree on a visa-free entry to Europe, and there is something to see, now to go to Spain it can go crazy at their embassy.
                      - It will be possible to train your child in Europe. The association simplifies the documentation of training. In Kiev, for university prices, it’s really cheaper to send children to study in Germany, this, together with living, is a problem only in papers and visas.
                      - Still, the association promises such crap the lack of restrictions on the withdrawal of currency from the country. What does this mean in practice, a billionaire from Europe wants to build a plant in Ukraine, he is building. The plant starts to work and make a profit, and it can bring this profit out of Ukraine to its own house without questions and sticks in wheels, such a law. It turns out that neither in Russia nor in Ukraine is it so easy to withdraw currency from the country. It turns out that the association gives the opportunity to the same BMW, Opel, Intel, and God knows who to build the plant, and this is jobs and as a result, an increase in salary. Not a word about such a novelty in the TS.

                      All other advantages that Ukrainian media describe are bullshit from the oligarch who will be profitable to cut loot exclusively for themselves.

                      I can not say anything about the vehicle because there is very little information.
                      1. Setrac
                        Setrac 5 November 2013 20: 00
                        +2
                        Quote: lordinicus
                        With this I do not agree. The USSR in the USSR gave up to 1/3 of GDP.

                        Unfortunately, Ukraine is weaker than the Ukrainian SSR, at the moment the numbers are correct.
                    3. Walker1975
                      Walker1975 5 November 2013 19: 43
                      +1
                      Quote: afire
                      The Customs Union (CU) means the unhindered movement of goods throughout the single customs territory, where a single universal mechanism of customs and trade regulation, sanitary, veterinary, phytosanitary control operates.


                      Only one detail - and representatives of Belarus and Kazakhstan complain that their markets are flooded with goods from the Russian Federation, and they can’t sell their goods in the Russian Federation - they interfere with Onischenka, who constantly require new certificates, permits, standards, and changes to documents. And this happens instantly - a wagon rides, and there are other requirements at the border ... so Russia wanted to spit on the free movement of goods, except for its own.
                      1. Don
                        Don 6 November 2013 14: 09
                        0
                        Quote: Walker1975
                        Only one detail - and representatives of Belarus and Kazakhstan complain that their markets are overwhelmed with goods from the Russian Federation,

                        This is where you get this information? Who complains, more specifically? What kind of representatives? What goods? And if there is no customs at the border, then why should goods not enter the markets? Three months ago, I was in Temirtau at a metallurgical plant and didn’t hear any complaints. They said that there are positive and negative points, but overall satisfied. Moreover, the vehicle has not existed for a long time.
                        Quote: Walker1975
                        and they cannot sell their goods in the Russian Federation - Onishchenko

                        Where is the information again? Specifically, which Kazakh or Belarusian goods banned Rospotrebnadzor? If this were real, then Nazarbayev and Lukashenko would already shout through all channels. And with you in the country, all the more so in all channels they cried out how badly in the TS. Given that through our channels there is EU propaganda and anti-propaganda of the Customs Union.
                      2. Don
                        Don 6 November 2013 14: 09
                        0
                        Quote: Walker1975
                        Only one detail - and representatives of Belarus and Kazakhstan complain that their markets are overwhelmed with goods from the Russian Federation,

                        This is where you get this information? Who complains, more specifically? What kind of representatives? What goods? And if there is no customs at the border, then why should goods not enter the markets? Three months ago, I was in Temirtau at a metallurgical plant and didn’t hear any complaints. They said that there are positive and negative points, but overall satisfied. Moreover, the vehicle has not existed for a long time.
                        Quote: Walker1975
                        and they cannot sell their goods in the Russian Federation - Onishchenko

                        Where is the information again? Specifically, which Kazakh or Belarusian goods banned Rospotrebnadzor? If this were real, then Nazarbayev and Lukashenko would already shout through all channels. And with you in the country, all the more so in all channels they cried out how badly in the TS. Given that through our channels there is EU propaganda and anti-propaganda of the Customs Union.
                      3. afire
                        afire 6 November 2013 14: 12
                        +1
                        in my refrigerator there are a lot of products from Belarus and they are super-duper! one Rogachev condensed milk cans 5 is always there! Their milk is super and the choice is large, so there is no need to flood, Belarus positions itself as an agricultural country and they perform this function with a bang. I can’t say anything about Kazakhstan, it’s more likely that energy contracts are profitable. In general, according to the HARDWARE, and protection is built on one and the goods are still cheaper, since drafts of customs fly in both directions. And all sorts of Walker1975 without knowledge of the matter are only shaking)) well, for God's sake. The main thing is that dumb envy says in them, and not common sense.
                        - Most likely to agree on a visa-free entry to Europe, and there is something to see, now to go to Spain it can go crazy at their embassy.
                        - It will be possible to train your child in Europe. The association simplifies the documentation of training. In Kiev, for university prices, it’s really cheaper to send children to study in Germany, this, together with living, is a problem only in papers and visas.

                        Interestingly, what will the average Ukrainian ride abroad? And even more so to teach children? you are just like children to God. And where does the export of money from the country and foreign enterprises? in Russia and so foreign factories are a dime a dozen and no currency law prevents this ....
                      4. The comment was deleted.
  • pensioner
    pensioner 5 November 2013 09: 46
    10
    Yesterday, on the advice of my acquaintance, I watched "Cognitive TV" from 25.10.13/XNUMX/XNUMX-conversation with V. Katasonov "Madness of Ukraine". Look, you won't regret it. Ukropatriots will also not be harmful. I advise you not in terms of discouraging Euro-optimism from them, but in terms of trivial education. They do not even know much of what V. Katasonov told. There is no propaganda at all. Stupidly the facts and the story about the scientific (I emphasize-scientific) conference, which was recently held in Poltava and was devoted to the issues of Ukraine's European integration.
  • TRAFFIC
    TRAFFIC 5 November 2013 10: 37
    0
    The article is of course a bit old,
    I will not even dwell on the obvious prevalence of immigrants from Western Ukraine among the Kiev establishment, on their large-scale "landing" on key posts in the eastern regions with the complete absence of oncoming traffic.
    , well, about immigrants from Western Ukraine, the author turned down, but it doesn’t matter, now everything has changed exactly the opposite, where do not people from Donbass look at posts, so what? Healed like under communism or what? wink And specifically, comparisons in the living standards of Russia and Ukraine are strained, if Ukraine, having three times less population than Russia, produced three times less gas and oil, that is, 200 billion cubic meters of gas and 180 million tons of oil, then compare. laughing Well, the place that in the thoughts of Ukrainians is occupied by the theme "EU or CU" and so on, on this topic, can be clearly seen in the "mass character" smile protests against the signing of an association with the EU.
    1. seller trucks
      5 November 2013 11: 52
      +7
      Quote: TRAFIC
      if Ukraine, having three times less population than Russia, produced three times less gas and oil, that is, 200 billion cubic meters of gas and 180 million tons of oil then it would be possible to compare.


      after the collapse of the USSR, Ukraine had a whole range of high-tech industries, aircraft missile complex enterprises, metallurgical plants, auto and chemical enterprises, I am silent about agriculture in general, did Ukraine have one of the mainland armies and what about it? and you're talking about carbons.
      1. lordinicus
        lordinicus 5 November 2013 12: 12
        -1
        Quote: seller trucks
        after the collapse of the USSR, Ukraine had a whole range of high-tech industries, aircraft missile complex enterprises, metallurgical plants, auto and chemical enterprises, I am silent about agriculture in general, did Ukraine have one of the mainland armies and what about it? and you're talking about carbons.


        But why the need an army so huge? What to fight with Russia? In general, no one is going to fight the West, it is for our billionaires who have all the children in Lodons and Paris !!!
        And all this high-tech industry collapsed due to the fact that all consumers were in Russia. In Russia, everything is screwed up and our industry is the same. In Russia, everything began to be created anew from scratch, we do not, but that's another story.
        For understanding, in Ukraine, Union stick systems were made, HAS antennas were developed for nuclear boats, and galium arsenide-elements were developed for radar. The consumer of all this was Russia but not Ukraine, all of this itself collapsed like a domino - it was just that no one was restoring it since Russia did not want to buy it even after restoration.
        1. seller trucks
          5 November 2013 12: 45
          +1
          Quote: lordinicus
          But why the need an army so huge? What to fight with Russia? In general, no one is going to fight the West, it is for our billionaires who have all the children in Lodons and Paris !!!


          let's say, the presence of a modern and efficient army of the Army, this is one of the reasons why the state can be reckoned with and have real authority, Ukraine had a chance to enter, for example, the UN Security Council or have a representative office in G8.

          Quote: lordinicus
          And all this high-tech industry collapsed due to the fact that all consumers were in Russia. In Russia, everything is screwed up and our industry is the same. In Russia, everything began to be created anew from scratch, we do not, but that's another story.


          you know what ... a bad dancer, you yourself know what is in the way. used these weapons and these technologies half the world. By the way, if you don’t know, then in the 90’s, during the division of the Black Sea Fleet, an armed conflict could well have begun. read S. Kozlov, the GRU veteran, has the memories of the combat swimmer 17 of the Special Forces brigade, right up to the capture of the headquarters of the Russian Black Sea Fleet.
          1. lordinicus
            lordinicus 5 November 2013 13: 00
            +2
            Quote: seller trucks
            let's say, the presence of a modern and efficient army of the Army, this is one of the reasons why the state can be reckoned with and have real authority, Ukraine had a chance to enter, for example, the UN Security Council or have a representative office in G8.

            No one would have allowed Ukraine into the Security Council as a permanent member. Neither Germany nor Japan got there. The first would not let Russia go because it is a loss of influence.
            Regarding G8 - you need to have money for this. Russia has a lot of gas and oil, plus the reputation of the USSR, and Russia got into the G8. The rest of the G8 countries have money and strange understandings; in general, G8 is a club of Western interests.

            Quote: seller trucks
            you know what ... a bad dancer, you yourself know what is in the way. used these weapons and these technologies half the world. By the way, if you don’t know, then in the 90’s, during the division of the Black Sea Fleet, an armed conflict could well have begun. read S. Kozlov, the GRU veteran, has the memories of the combat swimmer 17 of the Special Forces brigade, right up to the capture of the headquarters of the Russian Black Sea Fleet.


            You can write anything you want, but there wasn’t any fact! Someone lost and this is a huge plus project Ukraine.
            1. seller trucks
              5 November 2013 13: 06
              0
              Quote: lordinicus
              No one would have allowed Ukraine into the Security Council as a permanent member. Neither Germany nor Japan got there. The first would not let Russia go because it is a loss of influence.
              Regarding G8 - you need to have money for this. Russia has a lot of gas and oil, plus the reputation of the USSR, and Russia got into the G8. The rest of the G8 countries have money and strange understandings; in general, G8 is a club of Western interests.


              Well, it’s natural that the authorities were political impotent, who didn’t know what to do with all this free "good", so they decided to simply hack. at that time, Ukraine possessed nuclear weapons, and what is important, Ukraine started its economy from scratch, disowning the debts of the USSR

              You can write anything you want, but there wasn’t any fact! Someone lost and this is a huge plus project Ukraine.


              sediment remained
              1. lordinicus
                lordinicus 5 November 2013 13: 38
                +1
                Quote: seller trucks
                so naturally, the authorities were political impotent

                Power in a country is a reflection of the majority of the population in a country. At that time, most of the country was "political impotent." This is the essence of everything that happened.

                Quote: seller trucks
                Ukraine possessed nuclear weapons

                This is a MYTH, ask how nuclear weapons are developed, produced, stored, decontaminated and used. In Ukraine, there were people who only clicked on the "apply" button after receiving the codes that were in Russia. To store nuclear weapons, you need to have a whole industry that remained in Russia. Nuclear weapons have a certain resource after which it can spontaneously heat up and detonate. The weapon was handed over in the 94th, because the storage resource in the 94th ended and the massive heating of warheads began. They were given to Russia without question, and Russia accepted them without question. Therefore, our husbands wisely, precisely wisely, judged this very dangerous HEMOR for us! The husbands did the RIGHT 100.
          2. Avenger711
            Avenger711 5 November 2013 17: 19
            +1
            Ukraine was handed the most rotten things to Ukraine when the fleet’s raddepartment, it’s just that patriots in the Russian Federation have always been there, and the Navy doesn’t need anything, hardly anyone looked at it.
            1. Setrac
              Setrac 5 November 2013 17: 37
              +1
              Quote: Avenger711
              Ukraine was handed the most rotten things to Ukraine when the fleet’s raddepartment, it’s just that patriots in the Russian Federation have always been there, and the Navy doesn’t need anything, hardly anyone looked at it.

              And the missile cruiser and aircraft carrier were probably the most rotten?
              1. es.d
                es.d 5 November 2013 18: 00
                0
                Quote: Setrac
                And the missile cruiser and aircraft carrier were probably the most rotten?

                At what stage of combat readiness? Dismissed from combat duty and given away?
                1. ATATA
                  ATATA 5 November 2013 19: 16
                  +1
                  Quote: es.d
                  At what stage of combat readiness? Dismissed from combat duty and given away?

                  How many Ukraine in 23 years built NEW ships for its Navy?
        2. Avenger711
          Avenger711 5 November 2013 17: 18
          +1
          And how will Russia buy critical military or dual-use systems in a country that pursues anti-Russian policies? Again, the undeveloped ones outwitted themselves.
      2. TRAFFIC
        TRAFFIC 5 November 2013 12: 23
        0
        The fact of the matter is that after
        the collapse of the USSR
        and opening borders for imports most of these
        high-tech industries, aircraft missile complex enterprises, metallurgical plants, auto and chemical enterprises
        there was no inheritance, bloated states, uncompetitive products, lack of demand did their dirty deed. By the way, this is clearly seen in agriculture, which is in demand: wheat, corn, rapeseed, sunflower, chicken, produced in record volumes, more than in the USSR, and for example beef, because of the high cost, on the contrary, in addition to the same meat processing plants for the production of sausages products, it’s more profitable to buy it abroad, and weld more. Well, what about the army, we are a peace-loving country drinks enough and 100 thousand, 700 thousand warriors, this is very, very much.
        1. lordinicus
          lordinicus 5 November 2013 12: 38
          +1
          Quote: TRAFIC
          enough and 100 thousand, 700 thousand warriors, this is very, very much.

          After the collapse of the union, we had more than 1 million army !!! And there’s another 10 million weapons. I don’t believe that our army will protect us, look at Yugoslavia, Syria, Libya and Iraq, that the armies have protected them. Just not the desire to contact the local population did not allow the full-scale invasion of the interventionists. These countries were falling apart from the inside, no one in their right mind could touch strong countries, although there would be 100. A weak country and 1 million could not be saved.
          I'm reading a book by Leonid Kuchma "Ukraine is not Russia" - and so he writes that they created committees in the Verkhovna Rada and the government to find out what the factories were doing. It turns out that not a single plant reported to the government of the Ukrainian SSR, they reported directly to Moscow to the ministries. What kind of preservation of these industries can we talk about if they did not even know what the factories are producing! There was no closed production cycle, everything was created anew.
          1. Avenger711
            Avenger711 5 November 2013 17: 23
            +1
            They did not know what factories produce on their territory, but they divided the country? This is generally how to count? This is not even a betrayal, it is the lack of a brain.
        2. seller trucks
          5 November 2013 12: 59
          +4
          Quote: TRAFIC
          there was no inheritance, bloated states, uncompetitive products, lack of demand did their dirty deed.


          from these dirty tricks, these mockals, and here they shit, did not re-equip production, did not prepare sales markets for Ukraine, stop talking nonsense, didn’t your politicians threaten to make a second France from Ukraine?
          1. TRAFFIC
            TRAFFIC 5 November 2013 13: 06
            -2
            Do not give out your sick fantasies as my words, I wrote what I wrote, learn to read.
            1. seller trucks
              5 November 2013 13: 13
              0
              Quote: TRAFIC
              Do not give out your sick fantasies as my words, I wrote what I wrote, learn to read.


              But what have my fantasies to do with it? I repeat once again in Ukraine, there was everything in order to take place as a full-fledged state and without Security Councils and other eights / twenty, but a nationalist misunderstanding turned out, apologizing for the definition
          2. lordinicus
            lordinicus 5 November 2013 13: 40
            +2
            The USSR was not only Russian, it was Ukrainian to the same extent! The USSR could not live without Ukraine. When everything collapsed, everything collapsed, everything fell apart. Russia is not to blame for the fact that our plants are bent, everything was just destroyed as after the war. And all this had to be lifted from scratch.
            1. seller trucks
              5 November 2013 13: 51
              +1
              Quote: lordinicus
              The USSR was not only Russian, it was Ukrainian to the same extent!


              bravo! (+)
    2. lordinicus
      lordinicus 5 November 2013 11: 53
      +2
      Quote: TRAFIC
      can be clearly seen in the "massiveness" of protests against the signing of the association with the EU.

      What protests, what mass character. In Ukraine, no one believes these protests! No one will marry either the EU or the CU.

      I conducted a small poll among my acquaintances and friends. The question was: "Where is better for Ukraine to join the EU or the CU, specifically for you." I was shocked, no one said TS, even people over 60 !!! There are many who said, "It's better not to join anywhere," there were a quarter of them. I did not find a single supporter of the TS, although I interviewed 30 people. Familiar from such regions: Kiev, Krivoy Rog, Donetsk, Kharkov, Dnepropetrovsk, even one from Sevastopol.
      I know this survey is not an indicator for others, but everyone can interview friends and acquaintances specifically for themselves, the result made me think.

      PS I was really in shock NOBODY said that the CUSTOMS UNION would be better, I really thought that the picture would be different.
      1. Hudo
        Hudo 5 November 2013 12: 07
        +3
        Quote: lordinicus

        I conducted a small opinion poll among my acquaintances and friends.


        You term REPRESENTATIVITY familiar with?
        http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A0%D0%B5%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B7%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1

        %82%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%B2%D0%BD%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%82%D1%8C

        And then something is to me your poll strongly resembles polls of people on the streets from radio "freedom", the craftsmen from which, by selection (filtering out the statements of people that do not coincide with their point of view), create amazingly fabulous results that, according to some kind of defying logic coincidence, 100500% similar to the statements of the Fashington Goebbels.
        1. lordinicus
          lordinicus 5 November 2013 12: 30
          +2
          Quote: Hudo
          Do you know the term REPRESENTATIVITY?

          Thanks I'll know.

          But in the polls from all kinds of FREEDOMS and CENTERS there is one nuance - they are custom-made, someone pays for them and, accordingly, the result is beneficial to the customer. I do not believe such polls. I interviewed 30 people of different ages who were in the village and in the city.

          I did not just ask a question, but tried to explain to the person the essence of it. I did this survey purely for myself, it was just interesting and was not going to tell anyone, but the result shocked me. That's why he shared it.

          For example
          Asking one bubula in a village near Krivoy Rog, she said EU! Granny is 70, worked all her life as a milkmaid and was not interested in politics and is not interested, she has other concerns. She argued with the words "we did not live like this, maybe grandchildren and great-grandchildren will live normally." Granny did not feel the Holodomor, reprisals, or the accusations of the Soviet system, she was a hard-working citizen of the USSR, he is not a nationalist and she does not care about all this nationalistic bullshit. This granny is an indicator for me, and there are many, too many.

          P.S. I am not a supporter of the EU in its full form, for there is a fight. In the Middle Ages, the Inquisition existed in Europe for good reason!
          1. Hudo
            Hudo 5 November 2013 12: 40
            +3
            Quote: lordinicus
            I did not just ask a question, but tried to explain to the person the essence of it. I did this survey purely for myself, it was just interesting and was not going to tell anyone, but the result shocked me. That's why he shared it.


            Believe me, I am also not from unknown galaxies broadcasting to you, I live in Donbass in Lugansk. And I can tell you the following, a phrase said by a former colleague of Volodya Sharapov Levchenko: "And I have one hell ... If you want - let's go cut the garbage ... If you want, we'll run away at least tomorrow." more accurately characterizes the attitude of people to the project "Ukraine", which, by its futility, has already made people worse than Botkin's disease.
            1. lordinicus
              lordinicus 5 November 2013 12: 50
              -1
              Quote: Hudo
              Believe me, I, too, are broadcasting from unknown galaxies to you, I live in the Donbass in Lugansk.

              Not everything goes smoothly, but there is an indisputable plus in the "Ukraine" project, we have not had wars in Yugoslavia, Chechnya. I think this is a huge plus.

              Quote: Hudo
              Believe me, I, too, are broadcasting from unknown galaxies to you, I live in the Donbass in Lugansk.

              Here you are from Donetsk, and the elite of Donetsk is lurking in the EU. Behind the vehicle
              Medvedchuk - I realize the childhood and spent all my youth in the Zhytomyr region
              Tigipko - Dnepropetrovsk.

              Note zapadentsev in power at all.

              This is the same indicator that you can think about.
              1. Hudo
                Hudo 5 November 2013 13: 01
                0
                Quote: lordinicus
                Not everything goes smoothly, but there is an indisputable plus in the "Ukraine" project, we have not had wars in Yugoslavia, Chechnya. I think this is a huge plus.

                In this, neither the population of U, nor the ukrogaulyayters have merit. There will be a whistle from Fashington - there will be a war. In Crimea, jihadists frolic in training camps, in the west, Banderaists also succeeded in this matter, and the authorities were not ordered to look for them. Well, the spring can not be compressed indefinitely - one FIG straightens.
                1. lordinicus
                  lordinicus 5 November 2013 13: 42
                  0
                  Quote: Hudo
                  Quote: lordinicus
                  Not everything goes smoothly, but there is an indisputable plus in the "Ukraine" project, we have not had wars in Yugoslavia, Chechnya. I think this is a huge plus.
                  In this, neither the population of U, nor the ukrogaulyayters have merit. There will be a whistle from Fashington - there will be a war. In Crimea, jihadists frolic in training camps, in the west, Banderaists also succeeded in this matter, and the authorities were not ordered to look for them. Well, the spring can not be compressed indefinitely - one FIG straightens.

                  You wrote inadequate things a bit.
              2. Hudo
                Hudo 5 November 2013 13: 48
                -2
                Quote: lordinicus

                Believe me, I, too, are broadcasting from unknown galaxies to you, I live in the Donbass in Lugansk.

                Quote: lordinicus
                Here you are from Donetsk, and the elite of Donetsk is lurking in the EU.


                You what, geography in the parish school on the globe of ukraine was taught or from the picture on the pack of cigarettes "Belomorkanal" ???
                1. lordinicus
                  lordinicus 5 November 2013 13: 51
                  0
                  Quote: Hudo
                  Quote: lordinicus

                  Believe me, I, too, are broadcasting from unknown galaxies to you, I live in the Donbass in Lugansk.

                  Quote: lordinicus
                  Here you are from Donetsk, and the elite of Donetsk is lurking in the EU.

                  You what, geography in the parish school on the globe of ukraine was taught or from the picture on the pack of cigarettes "Belomorkanal" ???

                  These are all your quotes, where am I?
                  1. Hudo
                    Hudo 5 November 2013 14: 09
                    -1
                    [quote = lordinicus]
                    These are all your quotes ...? [/ Quote]

                    This is a quote WHOSE ???
                    [quote = lordinicus]
                    Here you are from Donetskand the elite of Donetsk is in the EU. [/ quote]
                    For the deaf-blind and others with oil paint painted TNPO the following is written:

                    [quote = Hudo] Believe me, I’m also broadcasting from unknown galaxies to you, [/ quote] I live in the Donbass in Lugansk[/ Quote]
                    For those crippled by ukroobrazovanie remind Lugansk and Donetsk are different settlements, both regional centers.
                    Here is the map:
                    https://maps.google.com.ua/?hl=ru

                    And then the whole globe of Ukraine, but the globe of Ukraine.

                    [quote = lordinicus] where am I? [/ quote]

                    With a blown education - I bought a certificate, but I did not buy a nobility. There was a wild boar, and a diplomat became. Indeed, education and you are in no way related to each other - these are mutually exclusive concepts.
                    1. lordinicus
                      lordinicus 5 November 2013 14: 18
                      +1
                      Quote: Hudo
                      Believe me, I am also not from unknown galaxies broadcasting to you, I live in Donbass in Lugansk. And I can tell you the following, a phrase said by a former colleague of Volodya Sharapov Levchenko: "And I have one hell ... If you want - let's go cut the garbage ... If you want, we'll run away at least tomorrow." more accurately characterizes the attitude of people to the project "Ukraine", which, by its futility, has already made people worse than Botkin's disease.

                      Here is your post, I took quotes from it. What pritenziya to me? This post was written not by me, but by you. Roughly speaking, you are now finding fault with your words.
                      1. Hudo
                        Hudo 5 November 2013 14: 28
                        0
                        Quote: lordinicus

                        Here is your post, I took quotes from it. What pritenziya to me?


                        I quoted above both mine and yours. In connection with the sim questions will be relevant:
                        a) DO YOU CAN READ?
                        b) DO YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO UNDERSTAND THE READ?
                      2. lordinicus
                        lordinicus 5 November 2013 14: 50
                        0
                        Quote: Hudo
                        a) DO YOU CAN READ?
                        b) DO YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO UNDERSTAND THE READ?

                        a) I can read.
                        b) Yes, I have.
                        I do not understand the essence of your claims? I am without collision.
                        We need to solve this situation somehow, try to explain my mistakes somehow.
                        As for the quotes, I gave an explanation, you wrote them, maybe I did not understand "Correctly" What are your quotes? Explain.
                      3. Rubs
                        Rubs 6 November 2013 01: 16
                        +1
                        Let me give you an explanation? As a resident of Lugansk, I immediately saw an inaccuracy that you cannot understand in any way. You were confused by the word Donbass. But Donbass is not only Donetsk, but also the Lugansk region. Therefore, being in the Donbass, you can not intersect with Donetsk, whom, by the way, are not very favored in Lugansk.
  • TRAFFIC
    TRAFFIC 5 November 2013 12: 26
    0
    "Better not to join anywhere"
    , by the way, I am also for this, but such are the realities of our time, globalization.
    1. lordinicus
      lordinicus 5 November 2013 12: 41
      +3
      Quote: TRAFIC
      "Better not to join anywhere"
      , by the way, I am also for this, but such are the realities of our time, globalization.


      It is beneficial for Akhmetov and Pinchuk to join - they will sell iron without duties in the EU, and he does not give a shit to the whole country. Russia does not buy their iron at all, or the fact that duties are set, but DO NOT BUY. Ask yourself what kind of Russia they need! They need the EU because there is their future money, which they will receive for iron.
  • Walker1975
    Walker1975 5 November 2013 12: 44
    0
    And I have as many as two people per vehicle (both communists retired for 60) ... well, that’s probably all ... And in contrast to them, there are people in their age who are against the vehicle and for European integration. Even my boss, who defended his dissertation in Moscow in one of the structures of the General Staff, was an honored machine builder, etc. believes that nothing good will come of Ukraine from the CU. Well, young people and even more so this vehicle is not needed.
    1. lordinicus
      lordinicus 5 November 2013 13: 08
      -1
      Quote: Walker1975
      And I have two people per vehicle (both communists retired for 60)

      Unfortunately, I did not find the Communists, although I was purposefully searching, I really wanted to talk about the CU vs the EU :(

      Quote: Walker1975
      . Even my boss, who defended his dissertation in Moscow in one of the structures of the General Staff, was an honored machine builder, etc. believes that nothing good will come of Ukraine from the CU.

      I found a man from Sevastopol who is ethnic Russian. He speaks Ukrainian, but considers only Russian as his family, and has many relatives in Russia. He is among my respondents, the most ardent supporter of the EU. He gave such a bunch of arguments for the EU that I considered him not a supporter of the EU, but rather an opponent of the CU! At the same time, he believes that the language issue in Ukraine is complete crap, his position "I want to speak Russian, why should my children be tormented with Ukrainian if their native Russian is, as a state official, they should know, but everything else should be in Russian." I did not expect to meet such a person.
      Based on your boss, I think there are many such "Russians" in Ukraine.
      1. Hudo
        Hudo 5 November 2013 13: 24
        +1
        Quote: lordinicus
        I found a man from Sevastopol who is ethnic Russian. He speaks Ukrainian, but considers only Russian his native, has many relatives in Russia. He is among my respondents, the most ardent supporter of the EU.



        "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
        There is much in the world, Horatio's friend, which our sages have not dreamed of.

        (The tragedy Hamlet, Act I, Scene IV)

        You never know what unique ones can be found by putting a certain amount of effort into this uncomplicated matter. Have you been looking for something for a long time, or as in the proverb "Fisherman fisherman ..."?

        For wine-glass and cheap pubs, in which decent people do not go, look more - there you will surely find a lot of strategists and geopoliticians. At least, according to Valentin Pikul, the drinking deacon advised Potemkin to “find smart people in taverns”. lol
      2. Walker1975
        Walker1975 5 November 2013 19: 19
        0
        You can not take Russian in quotation marks - he himself hails from Siberia :)
      3. vanaheym
        vanaheym 6 November 2013 04: 16
        0
        Lots of. A huge number of people who speak Russian, but do not think that because of this they should support the idea of ​​the TS.
    2. aleksandroff
      aleksandroff 6 November 2013 01: 28
      0
      It's just that you were brainwashed, and that's not for the vehicle. I don't even want to talk to the Ukrainians. Dicked to the utmost. Moscow is always to blame for them. They don’t give them gas for free (and why the hell). Then eggs interfere with them. For gouged already. And we also have a lot of idiots for the EU, there are a lot of them on "Swamp". Just GLORY TO GOD. that we had had this disease and our eyes were opened. Maybe the time will come and the Ukrainians will open. Only, the first thing you need to do is stop blaming Moscow for your sins, and look at yourself in a new way. And stop thinking a lot about yourself - Russia doesn't need you, one more free ballast is not needed.
  • Avenger711
    Avenger711 5 November 2013 17: 16
    +2
    Oh, healthy again, now you whine that you have no oil and gas. So who is to blame for not having one? Separated from Russia, so now pay for gas and oil, like everyone else who doesn’t get such happiness on the territory. You yourself don’t understand that you are exposing yourself to be such complete idiots who have refused valuable resources?
    1. lordinicus
      lordinicus 5 November 2013 17: 53
      0
      A whine only wretched mind.
      Normal pay counts without question - yes hard, grumbling but pay. As far as I understand, for the Ukrainian billionaires, the TS is an analogue of the USSR only without gas and oil they don’t want it, but I don’t care about it I will never see the loot of Ukrainian billionaires. I don’t understand what the TS gives me specifically. About the EU, it’s more or less clear:
      - If the local Ukrainian bonzes get cut, I can dump the work into Europe legally.
      - Grub will become cheaper because in Europe it is clearly cheaper I saw it!
      - Grub in Europe is clearly of better quality than in Ukraine.
      - Most likely to agree on a visa-free entry to Europe, and there is something to see, now to go to Spain it can go crazy at their embassy.
      - It will be possible to train your child in Europe. The association simplifies the documentation of training. In Kiev, for university prices, it’s really cheaper to send children to study in Germany, this, together with living, is a problem only in papers and visas.
      - Still, the association promises such crap the lack of restrictions on the withdrawal of currency from the country. What does this mean in practice, a billionaire from Europe wants to build a plant in Ukraine, he is building. The plant starts to work and make a profit, and it can bring this profit out of Ukraine to its own house without questions and sticks in wheels, such a law. It turns out that neither in Russia nor in Ukraine is it so easy to withdraw currency from the country. It turns out that the association gives the opportunity to the same BMW, Opel, Intel, and God knows who to build the plant, and this is jobs and as a result, an increase in salary. Not a word about such a novelty in the TS.
      1. ATATA
        ATATA 5 November 2013 19: 21
        +2
        Quote: lordinicus
        . It turns out that the association gives the opportunity to the same BMW, Opel, Intel, and God knows who to build the plant, and this is jobs and as a result, an increase in salary. Not a word about such a novelty in the TS.

        And why trumpet about what is already there?
        Volkswagen / Skoda in the Russian Federation are already working (not a screwdriver), TOYOTA, FORD.
        And you?
        I tell you once again, your press is brainwashing you all!
        Wake up !!!!
        Do you have a branch of Moscow State University from which you can transfer to study in the Russian Federation, do you know?
        1. lordinicus
          lordinicus 5 November 2013 19: 57
          +1
          Quote: ATATA
          And why trumpet about what is already there?
          Volkswagen / Skoda in the Russian Federation are already working (not a screwdriver), TOYOTA, FORD.
          And you?
          I tell you once again, your press is brainwashing you all!
          Wake up !!!!
          Do you have a branch of Moscow State University from which you can transfer to study in the Russian Federation, do you know?

          You're wrong. Skoda and Mercedes are also collecting in Ukraine, the question is that for this, the billionaire needs to agree with the local boss to withdraw money, which is troublesome and expensive, the percentage should be paid to someone for the transfer :). And the EU wants such nonsense to happen.
          1. ATATA
            ATATA 5 November 2013 20: 00
            0
            Quote: lordinicus
            You're wrong. Skoda and Mercedes are also collecting in Ukraine, the question is that for this, the billionaire needs to agree with the local boss to withdraw money, which is troublesome and expensive, the percentage should be paid to someone for the transfer :). And the EU wants such nonsense to happen.

            The current on is not a screwdriver, but localization.
            In 2012, 2 passenger cars rolled off the assembly line in the Russian Federation, and you?
            1. lordinicus
              lordinicus 5 November 2013 21: 47
              +1
              Quote: ATATA
              The current on is not a screwdriver, but localization.
              In 2012, 2 passenger cars rolled off the assembly line in the Russian Federation, and you?

              Well, 2 million passenger cars got off in Russia, but what exactly have you gotten off of this, your salary has increased? Have you been shared? Think for yourself - the oligarchs do not care what your life and well-being is, your main pocket. In Ukraine, people are just starting to think about this, but why the hell are these all the billionaires and their billions, I won’t get nothing from this, I need to feed my family now. And you about cars.
              1. Setrac
                Setrac 5 November 2013 22: 42
                +1
                Quote: lordinicus
                Well, 2 million passenger cars came off in Russia, but what exactly have you gotten off of this, your salary has increased?

                Caught by workers at the automobile factory, they went on vacation, and then fell to me, a railway worker.
              2. ATATA
                ATATA 6 November 2013 00: 54
                +1
                Quote: lordinicus
                And you about cars

                Not about cars, but you wrote two posts above.
                I tell you, you have a split consciousness.
                This is a dangerous syndrome!
                I tell you this seriously. hi
  • svp67
    svp67 5 November 2013 10: 42
    +3
    Article - SCREAM OF SOUL ...
  • erofich
    erofich 5 November 2013 10: 44
    +2
    100 percent to the point.
  • sys-1985
    sys-1985 5 November 2013 11: 08
    +4
    Then someone prophesied that another 10 years and all the connection between us would disappear ... there wouldn’t be!
    Please remember .. single families separated by a border. I personally have as many as 5 brothers living in (in) Ukraine and we can in no way be different in nationality and we have one motherland. Our children will also know only one Motherland! Homeland can not be different!
  • morpogr
    morpogr 5 November 2013 11: 26
    +2
    It’s sad to read all this, it’s a pity for people for all these years of independence, it’s only disappointment and loss. It is time for the residents of the south-east of Ukraine to take on the issue of self-determination and how to live with them no longer.
  • Peaceful military
    Peaceful military 5 November 2013 11: 52
    +4
    the collapse of the Soviet economic and political system was quite natural

    Lies were not logical, but, as in the case with the "Crow Slobodka" (I. Ilf and E. Petrov "Golden Calf"), the USSR could not but collapse.
    As for the stupid "patriotism" of something that does not exist, there is no dispute. I am a patriot of Estonia as an integral part of millennial Russia. I understand titular, like, for example, Americans. Their patriotism is based on the postulate of their exclusivity, which is hammered into the heads of Little Russians, lies about proto-Europeans, the most ancient, proud Ukrainians. I am a supporter of historicity, not hysteria.
    1. screw cutter
      screw cutter 5 November 2013 15: 36
      +3
      / Their patriotism is based on the postulate of their exclusivity, which is driven into the minds of the Little Russians, lying about proto-Europeans, the most ancient, proud Ukrainians. /
      As a country of proud, ancient proto-Europeans, can it be the edge of something? Something more logical / at the edge, on the edge /. There was no word "border" in the Proto-Slavic language, otherwise I would be half Russian, but half "bounty"
      1. Peaceful military
        Peaceful military 5 November 2013 16: 58
        0
        Quote: screw cutter
        / Their patriotism is based on the postulate of their exclusivity, which is driven into the minds of the Little Russians, lying about proto-Europeans, the most ancient, proud Ukrainians. /
        As a country of proud, ancient proto-Europeans, can it be the edge of something? Something more logical / at the edge, on the edge /. There was no word "border" in the Proto-Slavic language, otherwise I would be half Russian, but half "bounty"

        The question is rhetorical, moreover, passionaries with crap brains, not interested. smile
  • vkrav
    vkrav 5 November 2013 12: 21
    +4
    Ukropatriotism is best evidenced by the number of migrant workers in Russia and other foreign countries - by the way, in their mass, they are mostly Westerners. And ardent "patriots" remain so as long as you can get something out of "patriotism" ... This is the whole point - to shout loudly about your patriotism and demand a barrel of jam and a basket of cookies for this.
    1. Hudo
      Hudo 5 November 2013 12: 28
      +2
      Quote: vkrav
      .And ardent "patriots" remain so as long as you can get something from "patriotism" ...


      The more heart-rending the Ukrainian bureaucrat, the judge or the deputy yells about his patriotism, the larger the size of his trident on the lapel of his jacket - the more he is a stupid bastard. Personal observation.
  • Aeneas
    Aeneas 5 November 2013 12: 46
    -1
    Of course I sympathize with the author. He lost his homeland, his best years, work, relatives, and in general the meaning of life. In this impasse, he chose the culprit of his problems - Ukraine. Well, that’s his right, and disputes are not appropriate here.
    1. Corsair
      Corsair 5 November 2013 12: 53
      +5
      Quote: Aeneas
      Of course I sympathize with the author. He lost his homeland, his best years, work, relatives, and in general the meaning of life. In this impasse, he chose the culprit of his problems - Ukraine.

      Ukraine like territory absolutely nothing to do with.
      The point is the CHOICE of the ruling "elites" (to walk over them with a flamethrower), in pursuance of their selfish interests, leading the country from formal INNILANCE to dependence ...
    2. lordinicus
      lordinicus 5 November 2013 13: 10
      -1
      Quote: Aeneas
      Of course I sympathize with the author. He lost his homeland, his best years, work, relatives, and in general the meaning of life. In this impasse, he chose the culprit of his problems - Ukraine. Well, that’s his right, and disputes are not appropriate here.

      I also got the impression.
    3. xan
      xan 5 November 2013 13: 52
      +4
      Quote: Aeneas
      Of course I sympathize with the author. He lost his homeland, his best years, work, relatives, and in general the meaning of life. In this impasse, he chose the culprit of his problems - Ukraine. Well, that’s his right, and disputes are not appropriate here.

      as one Roman said - for the complete happiness of a person you need to have a glorious Homeland.
      The author of the article lost his glorious homeland.
      Have questions about the text of the article, and not about its purely subjective perception? The author bothered to cite some figures and describe the trends.
      1. lordinicus
        lordinicus 5 November 2013 14: 05
        -1
        Quote: xan
        as one Roman said - for the complete happiness of a person you need to have a glorious Homeland.
        The author of the article lost his glorious homeland.
        Have questions about the text of the article, and not about its purely subjective perception?

        From the Ukrainian side, this article looks exactly like "He lost his homeland, his best years, his job, relatives, and in general the meaning of life. In this impasse he chose the culprit of his problems - Ukraine."
        1. xan
          xan 5 November 2013 16: 35
          +1
          Quote: lordinicus
          From the Ukrainian side, this article looks exactly like "He lost his homeland, his best years, his job, relatives, and in general the meaning of life. In this impasse he chose the culprit of his problems - Ukraine."

          I suggested not sculpting a subjective opinion.
          There is nothing about the author's personal deadlock in the article, there is nothing about the problems of a citizen of the state "Ukraine".
          No one is interested in a personal dead end.
          Trying to get personal, in essence, the article is not responding.
  • dropout
    dropout 5 November 2013 12: 47
    +3
    My eldest grandson, he is 23, considers himself Russian. And the youngest, he went to eighth, categorically declares that he is Ukrainian. The result of kindergarten and school on the "ridnaya move." And somehow he comes from school and says that they need tomorrow come in embroidered shirts. Daughter went to school and, as they say, "turned the casing on them." the wolf and the wolf will get used to it.
    1. lordinicus
      lordinicus 5 November 2013 13: 23
      +1
      Quote: dropout
      My eldest grandson, he is 23, considers himself Russian. And the youngest, he went to eighth, categorically declares that he is Ukrainian. The result of kindergarten and school on the "ridnaya move." And somehow he comes from school and says that they need tomorrow come in embroidered shirts. My daughter went to school and, as the saying goes, “turned out the casing for them.” But on Teacher's Day, I went to school and saw that most of the children of the elementary grades were wearing embroidered shirts, and the girls were also wearing wreaths. That’s how the “kunam” of the wolf and the wolf will get used ...


      I’ll say right away that I understand and support your position.

      I have a friend whom I ranked as a "nationalist", although she herself is from Kharkov. I discussed this topic with her, and so she said such crap - "If you live in this country, follow the orders of this strange or you think it is wrong in Germany and France."

      I think that’s why the concepts of national leaders appeared - people try to defend themselves against this and gather in groups to protect their interests.
      1. Drosselmeyer
        Drosselmeyer 5 November 2013 14: 02
        +2
        +++ "If you live in a country, follow the orders of this strange or you think differently in Germany and France" ++++.
        That is not so. I lived in another country and once, someone decided that I was a citizen of Ukraine and suddenly, I must obey some orders that are completely alien to me. Indeed, despite the political affiliation, Crimea and Sevastopol were always not Ukrainian.
        1. lordinicus
          lordinicus 5 November 2013 14: 12
          +2
          Quote: Drosselmeyer
          Indeed, despite the political affiliation, Crimea and Sevastopol were always not Ukrainian.

          Oddly enough, men in Kiev do not even think that Ukrainians live in Crimea. Men clearly realize that Russians live in Crimea, what is happening in Crimea, it’s hard for me to judge, I don’t live there.

          Quote: Drosselmeyer
          I lived in another country and once, someone decided that I was a citizen of Ukraine and suddenly, I must obey some orders that are completely alien to me.

          I think you have a grudge-irritation at the collapse of the USSR, then what happened to the USSR was a defeat in the WAR "cold" but the WAR. Find in the literature what are the consequences and signs of defeat in the war, everything will coincide by 90%. The country is not just gone, it was destroyed. WE Ukrainians and Russians lost the WAR, and what we have now is the payment for that loss. Sorry, but that doesn't change the fact that there was an end.
    2. xan
      xan 5 November 2013 13: 32
      +7
      Quote: dropout
      My oldest grandson, he is 23, considers himself a Russian. And the youngest, he was the eighth, categorically declares that he is Ukrainian.

      It's okay, grandfather, it's not here.
      Children are malleable, young are all rebels, but the world belongs to forty years. I don’t remember exactly what one of the wise said, if you weren’t a rebel at 20 — you don’t have a heart, at 40 you were a rebel — you don’t have any brains. A photo taken from the article, this young rocker was clearly painted differently.
      Ukraine has big problems ahead that the Ukrainians cannot solve. And if Russia solves its internal problems, and the trend is evident, then soon it will be cool to be Russian in Ukraine, "in trend".
      Russia is nearby, and the Russian language cannot be undone.
      1. seller trucks
        5 November 2013 14: 18
        +2
        Quote: xan
        soon to be Russian in Ukraine will be cool, "in trend".


        (+) final, but what about glechiks, chobots and embroideries, and Taras Grygoevich on a towel? not everything is so simple, it is not known how long the "dancing" of wet trousers will last.
      2. RBLip
        RBLip 5 November 2013 15: 52
        +3
        Quote: xan
        Ukraine has big problems ahead that Ukrainians cannot solve. And if Russia

        that is, once again Russia will solve the problems of its suburbs, and after several decades, listen to the next mantra about occupation, the Holodomor, etc.
  • Drosselmeyer
    Drosselmeyer 5 November 2013 13: 54
    11
    In some ways the author is right, in some ways he is wrong. BUT! Ukraine is doomed to wallow in its own way (may the moderators forgive me) ****. For some reason, we think that now, in about five years, we’ll live, and already for twenty years. To take Argentina as an example, the country has not been able to get out of poverty for 60 years, nor will Ukraine.
    It is terrible that they themselves destroyed and destroyed. My friend worked as a shipbuilder engineer in Nikolaev, but there is no work there and he went to Samara. It is not possible to honestly earn money in your native Sevastopol, if you are not close to the city authorities, you will live on a penny. It’s impossible to even recruit somewhere to earn money (after all, three hundred dollars of a contract soldier is not earnings). The only way is to work abroad or stick to any state budget and steal.
  • misljachii
    misljachii 5 November 2013 14: 09
    +1
    But a new revolution in Ukraine is not planned? people will continue to endure there?
    1. lordinicus
      lordinicus 5 November 2013 14: 23
      +2
      Quote: misljachii
      But a new revolution in Ukraine is not planned? people will continue to endure there?

      There will be no revolution! Most of the population does not believe that it will be better with the EU or the CU. But everyone believes in a fairy tale that someday it will be better with the EU, no more. The EU promises a future tale, and Russia offers what? About this in Ukraine it is silent, you just read how cars were banned, cars were not bought, shekolad and some other crap were banned. They don’t write or talk about what Russia promises in the Customs Union, they show Putin’s representative who is pouring dirt on everyone. So the people are afraid and reach for bluish Europe, Russia itself intimidates Ukrainians.
      1. seller trucks
        5 November 2013 14: 40
        +2
        (+), I recently read about the CleanIT project with "ears" from Brussels, without delving into the details in the EU voluntary-compulsory rules for IT companies were created, it consists in blocking "inconvenient" content, as requested in Google



        I admit that such technologies were used, incl. and the media in Ukraine, the Internet is not even discussed. here it is real "freedom of speech"

        Requests to remove Google SERPs in 2012

        1. lordinicus
          lordinicus 5 November 2013 14: 58
          +2
          Quote: seller trucks
          I admit that such technologies were used, incl. and the media in Ukraine, the Internet is not even discussed. here it is real "freedom of speech"


          I work in IT in one of the main telecom operators in Ukraine. So the SBU-shniki came to us (SBU is an analogue of the FSB) and the same ideas were pushed. The problem is that there are no search engines in Ukraine !!! Google Russian, Yandex Russian, native melkosoft. What you described is decided only by the mechanisms that are used in China and Australia, to catch traffic on the fly and prohibit it. In China, it is impossible to write "China - x ... me" on the forum, the traffic will be caught, analyzed by the robot, blocked, and a corresponding notification about this user will be sent to the necessary service, so that this individual would be visited. So all this costs a lot of money, without the support of the state this cannot be realized! Ukraine cannot buy gas, let alone this fantasy.
          1. seller trucks
            5 November 2013 15: 14
            +1
            Quote: lordinicus
            The problem is that in Ukraine there are no search engines !!! Google Russian, Yandex Russian,


            Okay, it's clear with Yandex, but Google, purely hypothetically, can't block "bad" content through other remote servers?
            1. lordinicus
              lordinicus 5 November 2013 16: 10
              +2
              Quote: seller trucks
              Okay, it's clear with Yandex, but Google, purely hypothetically, can't block "bad" content through other remote servers?

              As I understood at the meetings where I was. Google needs to be asked through some kind of international structures, and our government cannot spoil the image of "open and honest". You can put pressure on Google only by prohibiting the work of their agency, which accepts orders for advertising and that's it, but this option is also not kosher, therefore, they catch the traffic of the abon and collect it in a heap, without a robot. On a national scale, this is complete nonsense and the effectiveness is 0%.
              1. seller trucks
                5 November 2013 17: 04
                0
                those. as I understand it, I want to pound, dumb pennies. on the other hand, for some time, if desired, and determine. resources possible.
                1. lordinicus
                  lordinicus 5 November 2013 17: 55
                  +1
                  Quote: seller trucks
                  those. as I understand it, I want to pound, dumb pennies. on the other hand, for some time, if desired, and determine. resources possible.

                  So.
                  But it seems to me easier to find a user and give the herd than to tear the army of system administrators of slaves.
      2. RBLip
        RBLip 5 November 2013 15: 54
        0
        Quote: lordinicus
        Russia itself intimidates Ukrainians.

        oh how !!!!!
        1. lordinicus
          lordinicus 5 November 2013 16: 24
          +3
          Quote: RBLip
          oh how !!!!!

          I am without sarcasm, many people think so. What the Russian government is doing is pushing it into the arms of the EU.
          At our place, all nationalists scream loudly and welcome such a policy of Russia.
          1. seller trucks
            5 November 2013 17: 41
            +2
            Quote: lordinicus
            What the Russian government is doing is pushing it into the arms of the EU.


            excuse me, but I would put the question differently: how much can be done for Ukraine, what would it turn towards the EU? it’s fashionable to engage in outright blackmail with gas and the Black Sea Fleet, the Russian language, how much you can indulge home-grown nationalists, rewrite history, putting everything upside down.

            Quote: lordinicus
            At our place, all nationalists scream loudly and welcome such a policy of Russia.


            wherever you throw a wedge everywhere, the only thing you need to regret is the fact that shock therapy had to be dealt with before.
            1. lordinicus
              lordinicus 5 November 2013 18: 00
              0
              To seller trucks You did not understand the essence of my post.
              Most of the population of Ukraine is not against Russia, but it’s really scary when you think, and if you enter what will happen? Everyone knows (maybe except for nationalists) that it is cooler with Russia, but everyone is scared despite what happens when Russia forbids the import of Roshen. It really was such anti-advertising that it is impossible to even imagine it, the minimum profit of 500 people lost their jobs, but there was a scream.

              About gas blackmailing is ridiculous :) Ukraine is cheaper to buy Russian gas in Germany than in Russia at a discount. This is someone else who is blackmailing. The Black Sea Fleet stands - the cruiser Moscow arranged a world tour around the world and that he will not return to Sevastopol :) You are naive.
              1. ATATA
                ATATA 5 November 2013 19: 28
                +2
                Quote: lordinicus
                but everyone is scared despite what happens when Russia bans the import of Roshen
                So I say the media brainwashed.
                When Roshen was punished for the fact that the owner cuts coupons in the Russian Federation, and the ardent Natsik lost 500 people (according to the results of an inspection of Ukrainian inspections), these are the machinations of the Russian Federation, and when hundreds of thousands, maybe millions, lose their jobs as a result of a U-turn in the EU, Is this a European choice?
                I beg you!
                I am sure you are all reasonable people, stop, catch your breath, look around !!!
                Appreciate it sensibly, without slogans, without emotions!
                Spain, this is good. You look where Bulgaria, Romania, the Baltic states are.
                1. The comment was deleted.
                  1. ATATA
                    ATATA 5 November 2013 20: 02
                    +1
                    Quote: lordinicus
                    That is, you do not want to see Ukraine in the vehicle? Did I understand correctly?

                    We do not want to see those who cut their income coupons in the Russian Federation, while they themselves are looking west.
                    Such as Roshen.
                    So clear
                    1. lordinicus
                      lordinicus 5 November 2013 21: 27
                      -3
                      Quote: ATATA
                      Quote: lordinicus
                      That is, you do not want to see Ukraine in the vehicle? Did I understand correctly?

                      We do not want to see those who cut their income coupons in the Russian Federation, while they themselves are looking west.
                      Such as Roshen.
                      So clear

                      That is, Ukraine should build an iron curtain for joining the Customs Union?
                      1. zardoz
                        zardoz 5 November 2013 23: 01
                        +1
                        why the curtain?
                      2. ATATA
                        ATATA 6 November 2013 00: 56
                        0
                        Quote: lordinicus
                        That is, Ukraine should build an iron curtain for joining the Customs Union?

                        How did you get to this conclusion?
                        can you explain?
                        Iron curtain from whom?
                2. lordinicus
                  lordinicus 5 November 2013 20: 00
                  -1
                  Quote: ATATA
                  Spain, this is good. You look where Bulgaria, Romania, the Baltic states are.

                  I was in Bulgaria no one complains about the EU. There are friends in the Baltic states, so they never regret in the EU and do not want to go back.
                  1. Misantrop
                    Misantrop 5 November 2013 21: 06
                    +3
                    Quote: lordinicus
                    I was in Bulgaria no one complains about the EU. There are friends in the Baltic states, so they never regret in the EU and do not want to go back.
                    Not a single homeless person, a swindler and a professional beggar admits that he regrets his past normal life. And they live, by their standards, not bad. But is it worth taking their life as a model?
      3. Walker1975
        Walker1975 5 November 2013 19: 56
        -4
        Also add: Russia sunk Ukrainian sailors, Russia threatens with sanctions, and at Russian forums everyone shouts: we will select Crimea. Yes, after such statements, Ukraine may not go to the EU at all, but leave to NATO in 5-10 years
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 5 November 2013 20: 05
          +2
          And what about the shot down airplane when you will settle accounts with the relatives of the deceased?

          Well, as for the Russian forums, do not go to them, and everything will be fine. I’m not looking at Ukrainian Internet resources, I know about the realm of Russophobia there.
          1. lordinicus
            lordinicus 5 November 2013 21: 29
            +1
            Quote: Spade
            Well, as for the Russian forums, do not go to them, and everything will be fine. I’m not looking at Ukrainian Internet resources, I know about the realm of Russophobia there.

            That is, we as two brotherly peoples do not need to communicate and worry?
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 5 November 2013 22: 02
              0
              What do you mean by "communication"? Podding your "Russia should"?
  • Black Colonel
    Black Colonel 5 November 2013 14: 25
    -1
    How did the natives of a small part of the Ukrainian population (Galicians) manage to stand up or put their like-minded nationalists at the helm of the country?
    1. GastaClaus69
      GastaClaus69 5 November 2013 14: 50
      +2
      But it just doesn’t have to be pushed to someone why we live poorly, elementary human psychology, the Jews stopped blaming, they started blaming some Bandera people. There are no nationalists in parliament, it’s profitable for people in power to carry out nationalization, as this is a guarantee that the foolish patriots will go to the bullets in difficult times. So the country will be, which means that they will be able to continue raking money. All these jokes of the type: right, left, social democrats, etc. .. this is only for people with certain convictions to carry them to their power on extended arms.
    2. lordinicus
      lordinicus 5 November 2013 14: 52
      +3
      Quote: Black Colonel
      How did the natives of a small part of the Ukrainian population (Galicians) manage to stand up or put their like-minded nationalists at the helm of the country?

      Our prezik Yanukovych and his mongrel Azarov are clearly not from Galicia, but from Donetsk. They paraded all the managers from Donetsk.
    3. Misantrop
      Misantrop 5 November 2013 21: 01
      +1
      Quote: Black Colonel
      How did the natives of a small part of the Ukrainian population (Galicians) manage to stand up or put their like-minded nationalists at the helm of the country?
      Yes, not the Zapadentsi set. They themselves are caught by foreign special services. They are simply convenient to put forward in the form of a screen to mask their actions
  • Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 5 November 2013 14: 33
    +5
    Quote: "After all, the main argument in favor of independence was the famous Rukhov flyers, with figures proving how satisfying Ukraine will heal, will hardly stop feeding others."
    I read the article with excitement. And I understood the author with my heart. True, I live in Russia, although I was born, raised, studied in Ukraine, in my beloved Kharkov. the picture is almost standard: me and my brother in Russia, my mother in Ukraine. In 1991, Gorbachev made our mother a foreigner in relation to us. But in those same years, Ukrainians rejoiced: finally we are free, and we will live like in paradise. There was enough paradise, as much as there were Soviet stocks in warehouses. Let there be an ellipsis ..... I come to my village. Visit parent graves, see school friends. In the village, asphalt (which is gradually being destroyed), water supply, gas, everything that the Soviet government built. During the 20 years of independence, the new Ukrainian government did not hammer a rusty nail for the benefit of my village. Do you need to make conclusions?
    1. Ivanovich47
      Ivanovich47 5 November 2013 21: 04
      0
      And yet I love Russia and Ukraine. So not everything is lost yet ....
  • URAL72
    URAL72 5 November 2013 14: 52
    +8
    Since childhood, he spoke Surzhik, but in a decent company, or, for example, in a store, cinema, etc., in our south everyone immediately switched to Russian. This is not the case now. All stupidly speak the "collective farm" surzhik under any circumstances. Does this speak of increased patriotism? No, just a catastrophic decline in culture, including the culture of communication, speech. We have a lot more people with higher education, but this education is an order of magnitude lower than the Soviet one. Engineers from the machine plant do not know how to read drawings (!), They run to those who retired long ago ... For the last 15 years I have been living in Kiev. I make a lot of efforts so that my son remains RUSSIAN, despite the local banderized education. And believe me, I can be proud of my successes in this difficult task. I myself have not used Ukrainian under any circumstances since 2005, and it makes me especially happy when it infuriates someone.
    1. lordinicus
      lordinicus 5 November 2013 15: 05
      +1
      Quote: URAL72
      The last 15 years I live in Kiev. I make a lot of efforts to keep my son RUSSIAN, despite the local banderized education. And believe me, I can be proud of the success in this difficult matter. Since 2005 I myself have not used Ukrainian under any circumstances, and I am especially pleased when it infuriates someone.

      I know the same person - only he fundamentally speaks Ukrainian and rejoices like a child when it annoys someone :)
      I think "Surzhik" is that Ukrainian only in 20-30 Soviet power improved and as a result, 10% of the country's population speaks real Ukrainian. Take our prime minister Azararov, it's funny, but he speaks like many Ukrainians in Ukrainian! Isn't this the truth!
      1. URAL72
        URAL72 5 November 2013 15: 23
        +5
        Azarov in RUSSIAN reads Ukrainian texts. Speaks (rarely, mostly in Russian) in Ukrainian with memorized quotations (read in Russian). B * DYulka and Profesor speaks surzhik ... But the fact that the communists created Ukrainian in the 20th is a fact. By the way, Russian too. Read pre-revolutionary books, both languages ​​were separated artificially, to legitimize the existence of exactly Ukraine. The then strategy read: "proletarians of all countries - unite" ... The Union was like a model. After the war, this idea was abandoned, but it is not clear why the Union remained.
        1. lordinicus
          lordinicus 5 November 2013 16: 13
          +3
          Quote: URAL72
          Azarov in RUSSIAN reads Ukrainian texts. Speaks (rarely, mostly in Russian) in Ukrainian with memorized quotations (read in Russian). B * DYulka and Profesor speaks surzhik ... But the fact that the communists created Ukrainian in the 20th is a fact. By the way, Russian too. Read pre-revolutionary books, both languages ​​were separated artificially, to legitimize the existence of exactly Ukraine. The then strategy read: "proletarians of all countries - unite" ... The Union was like a model. After the war, this idea was abandoned, but it is not clear why the Union remained.

          I read it :)
          I read books from the time of the empire in both Ukrainian and Russian, I generally did not see the difference. Individual words differed in pronunciation but in general
          it was one language. The communists of some sort shared this, why I still did not understand, because "proletarians of all countries - unite" somehow does not fit with the fact that they have corroded languages.
        2. The comment was deleted.
    2. seller trucks
      5 November 2013 15: 53
      +3
      Quote: URAL72
      Since childhood, he spoke Surzhik, but in a decent company, or for example in a store, a cinema, etc., in our south everyone immediately switched to Russian. Now this is not.


      the last time, in 93, I was in my father’s homeland in Storozhenets, knowing and understanding mov, I spoke Russian in principle, all young people, at that time my contingent, switched to Russian when talking with me, i.e. everyone could speak Russian. sorry if everything changed. By the way, they told how they boycotted Rukh’s actions in Chernivtsi.
  • Cherdak
    Cherdak 5 November 2013 16: 13
    +5
    Quote: cashpoint
    Poll: 75% of Donetsk youth consider themselves Ukrainians
    1. xan
      xan 5 November 2013 18: 29
      0
      For the record.
      I’m calm for humor; he certainly won’t leave such a life.
  • shark
    shark 5 November 2013 16: 46
    +4
    The author is well done. Prospects to him. You can’t refuse a person in logic. A plus article. I won’t say anything more. Everything has been said for a long time.
  • piotr534
    piotr534 5 November 2013 17: 38
    +2
    An explanatory article, ready to subscribe to every word. Although it’s not an appreciative occupation with throwing beads, it’s still necessary to refute all this new-fangled lies about the history of Ukraine. Otherwise, these Western ideologists will completely endure the brains of young people.
  • Arkan
    Arkan 5 November 2013 18: 18
    +3
    Good article. Respect to the author. We are apart again.
  • mithridate
    mithridate 5 November 2013 18: 26
    +1
    correct article. project "Ukraine" - the work of Western intelligence services
  • Corsair5912
    Corsair5912 5 November 2013 18: 54
    +3
    None of the former Soviet republics became a full-fledged state after the dismemberment of the USSR.
    It is understandable that a part of a dissected body cannot be a full-fledged organism, even if it remains viable.
    The USSR is in 80, and even in 90% Russia, not by population, not by territory, but by scientific, technical, industrial, military significance.
    Ukraine "fed" .......... and lived well itself, as it stopped "feeding", and there is nothing to eat
    1. xan
      xan 5 November 2013 19: 13
      +3
      Quote: Corsair5912
      The USSR is in 80, and even in 90% Russia, not by population, not by territory, but by scientific, technical, industrial, military significance.

      In the 90s, the President of Uzbekistan Kerimov was once asked about the armed forces of the post-Soviet countries. He said that only Russia can have real armed forces from all post-Soviet countries, "just ask the president of Russia." I notice that the most adequate politicians on the territory of the CIS are leaders with the manners of dictators, who think and operate in real categories.
    2. Setrac
      Setrac 5 November 2013 21: 19
      0
      Quote: Corsair5912
      Ukraine "fed" .......... and lived well itself, as it stopped "feeding", and there is nothing to eat

      Under the phrase "feeding" it should be understood that food from Ukraine went to the northern regions of the USSR for money, not free of charge, Ukraine itself does not need so much, the climate in Europe is better and, as a result, food is cheaper.
  • Sevastopol
    Sevastopol 5 November 2013 19: 44
    +9
    The article is relevant and will always be relevant.
    I am not a patriot of Ukraine as an independent state. Ukraine is part of Russia. and gained independence only because of the tragedy of the collapse of the USSR. generally distinguish between Ukrainian and Russian is impossible. Only the Galicians are different, but their minority is overwhelming in Ukraine. Distinguish at the end of last names? -you, -enko? Rave. There are a bunch of Russians with surnames like that. Ukrainian language? It was already said above that both Ukrainian and Russian in the modern form were divided after the 17th revolution.

    In general, "Ukrainianness" is an artificially derived concept, ideological. and the basis of "Ukrainianness" is exclusively hatred of "masks". there is nothing more serious behind him. those. the basis is not on values, but on hatred, on opposition, not on achievements, but on anger and envy.

    be a patriot of the state of Ukraine and be proud of Ukrainian citizenship? more absurd. the most shameful state with a white population in the world. where he who does not steal does not eat. actually. the minimum unemployment benefit is $ 67, the pension is 112, and the salary is 130.

    where the heroes are fascists and traitors, where in the parliament there are neo-fascists, where they destroyed everything that is possible. where corruption is so common that it starts at the hospital and ends at the cemetery. for each.
    there is absolutely nothing to be proud of Ukraine and to be its patriot. not even that prompted to respect this state at least somehow.
  • bistrov.
    bistrov. 5 November 2013 20: 09
    +4
    I completely agree with the article, I myself often write this in the comments, receiving in response squealing and swearing from Svidomo. And the majority of the population hates this "Ukraine".
    1. vikov
      vikov 5 November 2013 20: 49
      -2
      You are a free person, you have the right to choose, and you agree to live in such a hated country?
      1. Misantrop
        Misantrop 5 November 2013 20: 55
        +5
        Quote: vikov
        Do you agree to live in such a hated country?
        This is including our country, no matter how disgusting the government it is now headed. Leave? And with what joy? So Svidomo scum joyfully ran to sell our common property?
        1. vikov
          vikov 5 November 2013 21: 04
          -1
          You still sing about the nation-wide property, and its faithful guardian, Stalin.
          Alas, once again we returned to the old adage: Saving the drowning is the work of drowning hands. So we’re saved, they won’t be brutalized.
      2. bistrov.
        bistrov. 6 November 2013 05: 42
        +3
        Quote: vikov
        and you agree to live in such a hated country?

        But this is my country, temporarily occupied by the Neo-Bandera, I hope the common sense of the Ukrainian people wakes up, the signing of an association with the EU can become a catalyst, after it Ukraine will tear in the opposite direction, or split into two parts.
  • GUSAR
    GUSAR 5 November 2013 20: 11
    +3
    Modern Ukraine is a parody of common sense, and I understand that I’m not gloating, I’m not laughing, I, too, are from our relations with Ukraine in the state. level disgusting and funny, but unfortunately today it is ...
    1. vikov
      vikov 5 November 2013 20: 52
      0
      Alas, this parody, as you put it, has existed for 22 years, the generation has grown up in a completely different spirit, especially since many on this forum forget one feature of Ukrainians - the older generation, with all the cockroaches in the head of the past, will always be for their children, and they, again, are completely different.
    2. lordinicus
      lordinicus 5 November 2013 21: 32
      0
      Quote: GUSAR
      Modern Ukraine is a parody of common sense

      And after these phrases you want to live in peace and as one people with Ukrainians?
      1. zardoz
        zardoz 5 November 2013 23: 03
        +3
        I think the same as GUSAR :)
      2. Misantrop
        Misantrop 6 November 2013 10: 16
        0
        Quote: lordinicus
        And after these phrases you want to live in peace and as one people with Ukrainians?
        And what, in Russia there are few Ukrainians? Normal, not brainwashed with frankly enemy agitation? Or is it, in your opinion, second-class people who are really rich exclusively in Zapadenshchina? And monolithic, as one, in his desire to spoil the Slavs?
        With SUCH for sure, living together will not work ... request
  • uizik
    uizik 5 November 2013 21: 32
    +5
    In Ukraine, patriotism has been replaced by rabid nationalism, hatred of Russia and ardent love for Geyrope and the United States. I don't need such patriotism. The authorities subtly incite the Slavs against each other, otherwise the power will not be retained! Everything else for 22 years of "Nezalezhnosti" is sheer clownery!
  • Demetrius
    Demetrius 5 November 2013 21: 59
    -5
    Quote: lordinicus
    Quote: GUSAR
    Modern Ukraine is a parody of common sense

    And after these phrases you want to live in peace and as one people with Ukrainians?

    They do not want to live together, they want to rivet a new empire
    1. Hudo
      Hudo 5 November 2013 22: 15
      +2
      Quote: Demetrius
      They do not want to live together

      Who is "THEY"?


      Quote: Demetrius
      they want to rivet a new empire

      No. Are you currently watching George Lucas' Star Wars and commenting on what you saw?
  • avg
    avg 5 November 2013 23: 20
    +2
    Perhaps I did not read the best short course in the recent history of Ukraine, in simple human terms. Thank!
  • Alfonso
    Alfonso 5 November 2013 23: 34
    +5
    20 years ago I voted first for the USSR, and six months later - for the impunity of Ukraine. I well remember the agitation of the Rukhovites, but the squabble of Yeltsin and Gorbachev had a strong influence on me. It seemed to me then that it was better to stay away from these idiots, and Kravchuk looked more sober than Boris.
    Today’s campaigning for the EU is very similar to the then Rukhovskaya’s campaign, it’s strange when deceived in 1991. It’s natural to see youth’s gullibility in European happiness. But, apparently, we must have a good slap of shit, so that it becomes clearer what the EU wants from us. I pessimistically expect a rapprochement with the EU and a deterioration in living standards by 20 years.
    I’m very surprised if the standard of living is at least unchanged.
    I agree with the author of the article, sometimes I buy paper newspaper "2000" - worthy reading.
    1. Rubs
      Rubs 6 November 2013 02: 52
      +2
      I will subscribe to your words. The only thing - I expect a faster sobering from Europe.
  • Alfonso
    Alfonso 6 November 2013 00: 16
    +4
    And on the topic.
    Ivan Franco, 1897:
    “I don’t like Ukrainians ... I know so little about them, but I’m so rich in dumbness, tough stiffness, licentiousness and fucking, but I really don’t know why I’m loving you ... I can, I love Ukraine as a race, that race I am spirited, sentimental, amused by the hart and the strength of the will, so little good for a political life on a vile smitnik, so fertile for an inverted variety ... "

    Translation:
    "I do not like Ukrainians ... I found so few characters between them, and so much pettiness, close callousness, duplicity and pride that I really don't know why I should love them ... Maybe I should love Ukraine as a race, that race that has grown heavy , unbridled, sentimental, devoid of temper and willpower, so little capable of political life in its own garbage can, so prolific on werewolves of the most diverse sort ... "
  • Amateur
    Amateur 6 November 2013 00: 37
    +4
    The article is sincere and honest. The author really has a heartache from the European choice of Ukraine and for the future fate of his country. And he is precisely the true patriot of his country, unlike Pan lordinicus, who at any moment, allegedly, is ready to dump from the country to where the food is better. Pan "mows" under the simpleton, under "his". If you carefully read his comments and statements, you will also come to the same conclusion. But in fact - a banal order. Look at what awareness, refined political correctness, unobtrusiveness. Bravo! It remains to guess what department he is from. Guys, do not help him engage in campaigning on our portal.
    1. vanaheym
      vanaheym 6 November 2013 04: 32
      -1
      Ordering - this is when an article about Ukraine is embossed on a site dedicated to weapons and similar things. This is ordering. And who and how comments is the third aspect.
      1. zardoz
        zardoz 6 November 2013 05: 06
        +2
        Well, the site is not specifically about weapons. Discussed and politics. And the topic of entry / not entry of Ukraine is at least where the topic is resonant
  • Rubs
    Rubs 6 November 2013 02: 23
    +2
    that is, once again, Russia will solve the problems of its suburbs,

    The key word here is "friends". And Russia will have to solve them. So it was and so it will be.
  • Cristall
    Cristall 6 November 2013 03: 04
    -1
    Our language is good. Slogans are incomprehensible - Ukrainians are worse than fascism. Who gave you the right to judge like that?
    Allow me before the USSR and during it were Ukrainians. And under the king and before the king.
    Excuse me, it just so happened. And we have such a language formed. Normal is beautiful. Yes, I am against its forced planting by the methods that we practice - and our history is filthy (I’m talking about textbooks and not at all) with lousy writers (though this is for everyone)
    An adequate Russian will not consider a Ukrainian a fascist just because he is a Ukrainian. And vice versa.
    And on the topic - my soul hurts for the country. And I mean for the country and the great homeland of the USSR and my beloved Ukraine and my native Odessa.
    1. shark
      shark 6 November 2013 09: 48
      0
      I agree with you. If there are people who consider themselves Ukrainians, this is their right and their business. I recall the particularly fierce Russian patriots (although such myself) - under the USSR, Ukrainian schools completely legally studied the Ukrainian language. True, it was voluntary, but who wanted to he taught. And he didn’t have any problems. That's the right approach. With multinational populations, national cartoons, such as language, art, epic, cannot be forbidden! On the contrary, you need to support and develop in every way. Even the latest Evenk would feel my country!
  • The comment was deleted.
  • vanaheym
    vanaheym 6 November 2013 04: 37
    +1
    Here is a purely smiled film, which was filmed by the Ukrainian agency TSN on the topic "What would Kiselev say if he stayed on Ukrainian television."
    1. shark
      shark 6 November 2013 09: 53
      0
      not smiled. amused. I have not seen such a vyser