Military Review

Ithaca M6: "combination" for the survival of the pilot

45
Many rightly believe that firearms weapon armored vehicles, pilots and others is a secondary weapon and in most cases absolutely useless, since it is often sacrificed for the sake of reducing the size and weight. However, among such samples you can find quite interesting models of weapons, which turned out not as a result of the “castration” of normal samples, but as a result of the work of designers “from scratch” and with clearly defined tasks. One example of this is the American survival combo gun. Immediately it should be noted that a similar project existed with us, albeit a little later, but the result galloped the potential enemy seriously, well, in my opinion. But we will discuss a domestic sample in another article, but for now let's deal with what was offered to US pilots in case of an emergency landing far from civilization.


The full name of the sample is Ithaca M6 (survival weapon). The appearance of the weapon is such that it seems as if it was assembled on a knee in some kind of basement, but this is only an external impression. In fact, excessive asceticism of weapons is a deliberate and balanced decision of designers to reduce the size and weight of weapons, well, and ryushechki - this is superfluous. Externally, the weapon is a “tipping” with a vertical arrangement of short trunks. In order for the device to occupy as little space as possible, the butt rotates 180 degrees and locks under the barrels, thus the chambers in the folded position remain open, which is not good, in my opinion. In the butt of the weapon are 4 shotgun shells and 9 ammunition for rifled barrel. Not much, but better than nothing. Aim devices consist of reversible rear sight and front sight. The rear sight is designed for firing from a smooth trunk at a distance of 20-25 meters and from a rifled distance to 90 meters. To make a shot, you need to press a large enough key that is not covered with anything. On the one hand, this seriously reduces the safety of the weapon, on the other hand, it allows you to shoot even when the hand is injured and mobility is reduced, well, or when the hands are protected with very thick mittens. On a large trigger there is a switch with the help of which the selection of the barrel from which the shot will be made. The upper barrel of the threaded apparatus, the .22 caliber, the chamber, is designed for the .22 Hornet cartridge. The lower barrel is smooth, chambered for .410. Standard ammunition for weapons equipped with a fraction number XXUMX.

It is easy to guess that this unit is designed only to enable the pilot to shoot himself something for dinner. Apparently, in case of meeting the pilot with the bear, he was recommended to smear the face of the bear, well, and than to smear, the pilot found out when he met a bear. In the event of a meeting with an armed opponent, even shooting oneself from the first shot could not work. In general, the device turned out to be quite good for hunting small animals, but it is not adapted for anything else.

The total length of the weapon is 718 millimeters in the unfolded position, with a folded butt length equal to 381 millimeters. The length of both barrels is 335 millimeters. Weight together with ammunition is 2,06 kilogram.

Due to the fact that the device showed itself as far from the most suitable for the tasks that confront a person when trying to survive in the wild, and even more so for survival on the territory of the enemy, the device was removed from service, but soon appeared on the market weapons. Naturally, no one left it in its original form, the trunks were extended to 400 millimeters, and the cartridge chamber for the rifled barrel became shorter for the .22LR or .22WMR cartridges.
Author:
Photos used:
world.guns.ru
45 comments
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  1. The comment was deleted.
  2. Bosk
    Bosk 5 November 2013 09: 25
    +9
    In the event of an accident, the hunter's rifles will be enough for survival, but you just need to modify it to the maximum folding option, but in the case of landing during hostilities on the territory occupied by the enemy ... with competent cleansing by the enemy, the howitzer will not help him, therefore We need weapons not for war, but for survival. Let’s say the tankers have a completely different situation ...
    1. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets 5 November 2013 13: 05
      +4
      Quote: Bosk
      well, and in the event of landing during hostilities in the territory occupied by the enemy ... with competent cleansing by the enemy, the howitzer will not help him, therefore he needs weapons not for war, but for survival

      In general, in the article this weapon is positioned as a "weapon of survival", otherwise it would be called simply - a personal weapon. The pilot, of course, rarely needs a weapon of survival, but if necessary, it will be a matter of life and death. In my opinion, the cartridge for a rifled barrel is rather weak in this device. Everything that he can get, the same, in principle, will get shot. Here we would need the type of our 7,62X39, only it will be necessary to seriously modify the locking system.
  3. makarov
    makarov 5 November 2013 09: 40
    +2
    ".. Naturally, no one left it in its original form, the barrels were extended to 400 millimeters, and the rifled barrel chamber became shorter - for .22LR or .22WMR cartridges."
    In the case of alteration, the unit loses its identity, and hence the cost and value.
    It is not possible to compare it with another, or according to generalized information, since there are no technical test data, such as how many failures and delays are recorded per 100 and per 1000 rounds? etc.
    thanks to the author for the work.
  4. avt
    avt 5 November 2013 10: 20
    0
    Cool, but nothing more.
  5. Bongo
    Bongo 5 November 2013 10: 35
    13
    We also developed a similar for astronauts. Two smooth barrel 32-th caliber and one threaded 5,45-mm.
    1. bazilio
      bazilio 5 November 2013 11: 52
      +3
      I also remembered the "Kit" shooting knife and the "Option" kit. Developed for scouts of saboteurs, but can also be useful for survival
    2. luiswoo
      luiswoo 5 November 2013 11: 53
      +6
      By efficiency, I suspect the same berry field as the M6. Reminds a sawn-off shotgun Sauer M30 Luftwaffe

      The good old lever carbine for survival looks more interesting:
      1. Vladimirets
        Vladimirets 5 November 2013 13: 08
        0
        Quote: luiswoo
        Reminds a sawn-off shotgun Sauer M30 Luftwaffe

        Interestingly, many British and Americans brought trophy drills from Africa home? what
        1. alex-cn
          alex-cn 5 November 2013 14: 50
          +1
          Only the cartridge was there, as far as I remember 5,6x39 hunting, because it allowed the use of half-shell scavenger bullets, in tests our astronaut gun allowed us to shoot game up to the average boar, at a distance of up to 100 meters. As for the American weapons, it found its niche among northern American nationalities, of course in the civilian version, and was mass-produced until the 80s, in any case, it was then that there was information about it. information about both guns was published in the journal. Hunting and hunting. household.
          1. Bad_gr
            Bad_gr 5 November 2013 21: 44
            +1
            Quote: alex-cn
            As for the American weapon, it found its niche among the northern American peoples, of course in the civilian version,
            And with regards to ours, it was discontinued, although those who wanted to buy it were a shaft.
            1. alex-cn
              alex-cn 6 November 2013 18: 13
              0
              So, after all, a pistol with a priest ... if only they had made a full-fledged tee.
  6. makarov
    makarov 5 November 2013 11: 12
    +3
    Quote: Bongo
    We also developed a similar for astronauts. Two smooth barrel 32-th caliber and one threaded 5,45-mm.

    And a Machete-type stock. And not "developed", but there was a small circulation production. And there were several developments themselves, but one won the competition.
    1. kirpich
      kirpich 5 November 2013 11: 54
      +7
      And it’s very unfortunate. How much would the pilots' survival have increased if they had NAZ with everything you need. Here’s the oddity - sea pilots have both an inflatable boat and NAZ in case of splashdown. And they have everything compact and at hand. I think that creating a land NAZ is not so difficult.

      I see him like that. A sealed satchel case with the ability to be worn as a backpack, or a case. Weight, about 10-12 kg. This includes rations for three days, survival tools, and survival weapons (approximately as BONGO showed). All this is sealed, filled with neutral gas, so that give buoyancy. It is sealed and assigned to each pilot as a weapon. You can check the equipment once a year.
      1. StolzSS
        StolzSS 8 November 2013 07: 16
        0
        In peacetime, this is extra ballast, but in war, better luck and your men on a turntable as a salvation. But on an expedition or what a super-long-range flight the space tricycle will fit! hi
  7. marshes
    marshes 5 November 2013 12: 42
    +2
    For pilots, a machine gun with a silencer will probably be relevant right now, as a survival weapon.
  8. _KM_
    _KM_ 5 November 2013 13: 03
    +2
    Why did everyone decide that the pilot needed to get food with a weapon? But what about the enemy patrols? Or is it a weapon for civilian pilots?
    1. kirpich
      kirpich 5 November 2013 13: 15
      +2
      And, because there are all kinds of cases. Some months in the taiga, jungle, desert lived and went out to people. There were also those who died a hundred meters from civilization (could not give a sign). GOUGLED, you will find a lot of interesting things.
    2. Andrey77
      Andrey77 5 November 2013 13: 27
      +2
      If the pilot after ejection wants to conduct a full-fledged battle, then he needs a full-fledged weapon. The trouble is that the AK-47 and the catapult do not want to be friends. Now all over the state there are "ksenia" like cops. But you won't get further than 200 m from it.
      1. kirpich
        kirpich 5 November 2013 13: 52
        +5
        The pilot, after ejection, DOES NOT WANT to conduct a full-fledged battle. He wants to return to his own. And if he was shot down over the enemy's territory, then he should have chances to return. Here on the forum I have repeatedly said, and I will repeat - Give "Ksenia" normal, low-impulse cartridge, + tracer, + semi-sheathed, and AKSU will normally be included in the NAZ kit, and you do not need to shoot from it to get food at 200m. And the battle with the enemy is conducted at shorter distances
  9. _KM_
    _KM_ 5 November 2013 14: 32
    +2
    2 kirpich

    Maybe pilots need more silent weapons? For example "shaft" or "screw cutter"?
    1. marshes
      marshes 5 November 2013 14: 36
      +2
      Quote: _KM_
      For example "shaft" or "screw cutter"?

      PP Heather, with a silencer the most.
      1. kirpich
        kirpich 5 November 2013 14: 45
        +2
        In NAZ, weapons should be accurate, not a mowing machine.
        Muffler? Well, 3-4 shots can and will make silent, and, after where and HOW will you clean PBBS?
        1. marshes
          marshes 5 November 2013 15: 01
          0
          Quote: kirpich
          In NAZ, weapons should be accurate, not a mowing machine.

          Maybe a sample about showing what kind of weapon should be in NAZ, by the way, there were pilots by the way Veresk, I saw the transmission for a long time on TV. Then silence ...
          1. kirpich
            kirpich 5 November 2013 15: 55
            +1
            And the above posts are too lazy to read?
            Then especially for you

            The pilot, after ejection, DOES NOT WANT to conduct a full-fledged battle. He wants to return to his own. And if he was shot down over the enemy's territory, then he should have chances to return. Here on the forum I have repeatedly said, and I will repeat - Give "Ksenia" normal, low-impulse cartridge, + tracer, + semi-sheathed, and AKSU will normally be included in the NAZ kit, and you do not need to shoot from it to get food at 200m. And the battle with the enemy is conducted at shorter distances

            And further. Hunters get game from a distance of 20-70 meters.

            P, S, Another plus of "Ksenia" is the ability to fire at least single, at least bursts.
            1. marshes
              marshes 5 November 2013 16: 19
              0
              At the expense of the AKS-74U, it is suitable for transport helicopter crews, they are rarely evacuated with parachutes. Moreover, the full-time combined-arms cartridge is not difficult to get in the combat zone.
              PP is more convenient for pilots who catapulted, because it can be positioned on the body. American pilots at the same time as additional weapons took the M-10 PP with them.
              And if you want, as Ksenia, there is a whole family of Bison and Whirlwind, under a low-pulse cartridge. By the way, for action on the territory of the enemy, a 9x19 mm Parabelum cartridge is preferable.
              1. kirpich
                kirpich 5 November 2013 17: 00
                0
                Bolot, it’s hard to argue with you, for the simple reason that you read posts diagonally.
                Excuse me.
                1. marshes
                  marshes 5 November 2013 17: 27
                  0
                  My father served a dozen years in the Air Force. It’s generally problematic to jump out of his side in the event of an emergency, all the more so when allied in Chita and on. They flew to Khabarovsk without any personal weapons, since Soviet citizens were around. Then they issued a PM with an additional store, they joked that they would shoot themselves.
                  1. kirpich
                    kirpich 5 November 2013 17: 37
                    -1
                    Marshes, that's what I’m talking about, it’s hard to argue with you.
    2. avt
      avt 5 November 2013 15: 39
      +2
      Quote: _KM_
      Maybe pilots need more silent weapons? For example "shaft" or "screw cutter"?

      Yes, even "Whirlwind",
      Quote: marshes
      PP Heather, with a silencer the most.

      Well, this is much better than a castrated version of a weapon called “for survival.” It’s better to have a full-fledged barrel, albeit a short hunting one, than to make fun of like that for humanitarian reasons. Otherwise, there’s no candle, no hell of a poker. civil "weapons and blame everything on" specifics ".
    3. Bosk
      Bosk 5 November 2013 20: 15
      +1
      For example ... our pilot crashed somewhere in the taiga region and if a curious bear comes out for him ... I think the noiseless thing in this case will play a bad joke with the pilot, and let’s say with a simple improved double-barreled shotgun that you bear so much I can’t do it. Anyway, I’m sure that the pilot needs survival weapons, not military weapons ... whoever went to the taiga with Kalash will understand me.
  10. _KM_
    _KM_ 5 November 2013 14: 57
    0
    Quote: marshes
    PP Heather,


    There is a pistol cartridge. I think that its effectiveness may not be enough.
    1. marshes
      marshes 5 November 2013 15: 11
      0
      There is an unusual cartridge a 9x21 mm.
      CP-2
      The Veresk submachine gun was developed as a "Special Development" for the Russian Ministry of Internal Affairs. It was developed already in the mid-1990s in the city of Klimovsk at the Central Research Institute of Precision-Mechanical Engineering. The Veresk submachine gun was designed for a special SP-10 armor-piercing cartridge of 9x21 mm caliber. which is capable of penetrating class 3-4 armor. The automatic mechanism was inherited from the SR-3 "Whirlwind" assault rifle developed in the same city of Klimovsk. On both sides of the receiver there are flags, on the right is a fuse, on the left is a translator of fire modes (single or automatic fire). There is also a folding additional handle for more convenient use. A collimator sight can be attached to the receiver, there are also open sights. There are no analogues in the world for this submachine gun, which, with its dimensions, combines the power of an assault rifle.
      Country: Russia
      Developer: TsNII-TM city Klimovsk.
      Year of release: 1995 year.
      Caliber: 9x21 mm. (SP-10; SP-11)
      Weight: 2 kg. (With a store).
      Length: Unfolded - 603 mm. Folded - 367 mm.
      Magazine capacity: 20 or 30 rounds.
      Firing Rate: 900 shots per minute.
      Effective range: 100 meters.
      1. kirpich
        kirpich 5 November 2013 17: 55
        +1
        Shoot single can? If not, then in NAZ it is not needed for nothing (large consumption of ammunition).
        You’re walking through the taiga, the jungle, the steppe, I saw a squirrel, a gopher, a lemur. I took aim, even fired with a cut-off, and fell! Will you scrape a lot of meat from the surrounding trees? All the same caliber 9x21
        So, what is not necessary about "VERESK". It is a good PP in its class, but not suitable for NAZ.
        1. marshes
          marshes 5 November 2013 18: 19
          0
          I gave an example on the account of Veresk, now there are enough PPs that can shoot with different modes.
          I don’t know what to shoot for the squirrel and the gopher, all the more plague or other infection can be caught, but for a group of pheasants I fell from the PM once, I shot one bird, and so it’s possible to freeze up hares at night using a flashlight. you can fight off the taiga from the bear and the wolves, the peoples of the north of the bear hit the den in the den with a small shot in the ear.
          In the steppe, turtles are delicious. smile
          1. kirpich
            kirpich 5 November 2013 19: 27
            +2
            Marshes, different animals in different regions. A person who has fallen into extreme conditions should have at hand a normal set of SURVIVAL! What else can I add here, so as not to spread thought on the tree?
            As for squirrels, ground squirrels, foxes, snakes, and others like them. If you want to live, EAT! And drink some water from a puddle ...
            If you don’t have NAZ wink
            1. Bad_gr
              Bad_gr 5 November 2013 22: 54
              +1
              I looked for information about hunting tees, met:
              ".... that during the Second World War, Luftwaffe pilots who fought in the Arctic and not only were given three-barreled guns instead of machine guns, ..."
              http://www.safari-magazine.ru/o-troinikakh-razgovor-na-privale
              In general, the emergency pilot kit must be equipped depending on where it flies. For example, in Afghanistan a pilot’s shotgun would look dumb, but it would be in Siberia to the place. But a submachine gun in Siberia would not be ice at all.
  11. KEKS44
    KEKS44 5 November 2013 15: 06
    +3
    There is no need to invent a bicycle. There is in service with AKSU - almost the same AK-74 current is shorter. And this "fool" in the photo at the beginning of the article is good for scaring the coyotes on the prairie. And for the self-defense of a brave American pilot from barbarians who are eager to tear him to pieces, armed with automatic weapons - this pukalka is unlikely to work.
  12. Massik
    Massik 5 November 2013 16: 19
    0
    Well, the idea is not bad, but why are there so many trunks, a smooth-bore can handle up to 100m with anything a bullet or shot, the pilot is unlikely to be able to swipe for more.
  13. brr7710
    brr7710 5 November 2013 16: 25
    +1
    these carbines were then used in the filming of the movie "Star Wars" part 1, at "sandpitters, in my opinion
  14. Kir
    Kir 5 November 2013 17: 54
    0
    I don’t know, of course, maybe someone can explain this and it seems intelligible like why "gloss" is injected, But for me, as the amersky design was poor, it is no match for either Us or the Germans with the Austrians. And with regards to the proposal of some to create an NAZ in the form of a knapsack with inert gas injection and so on, I wonder how much this will take in money, although of course they will correctly object that life is priceless all the more Spets, but somehow this set did not become an expensive souvenir for the "elite" instead of means salvation for those who are supposed to.
    1. kirpich
      kirpich 5 November 2013 18: 13
      +1
      KIR, did you carefully read my first posts? There, I, it seems, wrote clearly that NAZ / SHOULD BE ATTACHED, FOR EACH PILOT, AS WEAPONS INDIVIDUALLY! /
      1. Kir
        Kir 5 November 2013 19: 13
        0
        I read it, but it’s one thing How it should be, another How it will be, forgive me, but according to the latter, unfortunately, they are not isolated, the same special weapons fell into the wrong hands and more than once, but here is such a "set".
        1. kirpich
          kirpich 5 November 2013 19: 35
          0
          Well, it all started with something. Put a floating chip in your weapon and track it even from a satellite, even from a TV. The main thing is that the equipment does not fail wink
          1. Kir
            Kir 5 November 2013 21: 20
            0
            Forgive me, of course, but are you sure that only yours will track you? In addition, this is another rise in price in terms of the cost of the kit itself and, most likely, inflation of the states, additional finances.
  15. makarov
    makarov 5 November 2013 19: 26
    +2
    SW Komenty!
    No need to invent anything. Military pilots get exactly what they need. A whole team of systems engineers and logisticians was thinking about this decision. No need to invent and discover America. With regards to Ksenia, twigs, ka, etc. , the machine was discontinued in the distant 92th. The reason for the steepness of the rifling, from the destruction of the shell, and as a result of overheating. It is in service everywhere.
  16. uzer 13
    uzer 13 5 November 2013 20: 39
    10
    Similar survival kits were created at different times, and almost all of them had the same drawback: their designers themselves were never in extreme conditions and only had to survive when they gluttoned at corporate events, so they try to combine manic perseverance in one device a rifle and an ax (in a clumsy way) - because they heard somewhere that you can chop wood with an ax. For information, an ax is not very necessary in the forest. It weighs a lot, and it’s problematic to cut down the land, it doesn’t chop it a tree. You should probably explain that the trees growing around you in the forest are not suitable for a fire, they are damp and will not burn. In summer I don’t advise spending a night by the fire. Have you seen smoked sausage in the store? In the morning you will look and stink also , as not the best representatives of this respected product. They don’t spend nights in tents in the woods. When a predator attacks, you are doomed to become his food, and from the bear’s point of view you are what you are, he needs to eat well before winter. Matches, a hacksaw, a set of warm clothes, a small gun, a backpack, everything should to be easy. A GPS navigator doesn’t hurt the compass either, the knife is still medium in size (not the survival knife). This is a minimal set. AKS74U is quite suitable for these purposes. After 50 meters you are unlikely to get into a bird from any shotgun. Here is the kit for astronauts, in principle, made correctly, only it seems to be made in one copy and it’s not enough for everyone.
    The American gun for our conditions is completely unsuitable, there are no gophers here, and the frog can be caught anyway.
    To save the pilots, a special service must be created that has the means of detection, communication and transportation, exactly the same as in the US Air Force. Only in our army should we even inform the commanders of the warrantee that these helicopters cannot be used for trips to the country and fishing and they must always be fully prepared for action.
    Rescue of the drowning is the work of the drowning themselves (from the instructions at the boat station)
    1. kirpich
      kirpich 5 November 2013 22: 38
      +2
      At least one adequate. I did it.
    2. Andrey_Irkutsk
      Andrey_Irkutsk 6 November 2013 14: 17
      +2
      Have you ever been to the taiga? Where did you read such nonsense? What kind of land does not chop with an ax? What is this ax? Ever heard of tourist hatchets? Or do you think it's just souvenirs? In tents they spend the night in the taiga / forest .. Do not write what you do not know about, you will not look so stupid.
      1. uzer 13
        uzer 13 6 November 2013 23: 06
        0
        I haven’t been there. I just lived.
  17. ivanovbg
    ivanovbg 5 November 2013 21: 25
    -2
    4 + = 9 13

    Well, Americans love Satan!