Conflict of interest: scientific companies or military departments?

At 27, Russian universities continue to operate military departments. Moreover, in a number of cases, military departments operate in universities working in the humanitarian field, ”representatives of the Russian Union of Rectors said at a recent meeting. However, a number of technical universities in the post-Soviet reforms in the Russian army and the military education system, the military department lost.

This situation led to the fact that representatives of the Russian Union of Rectors, with the support of the leadership of defense industry enterprises, took the initiative to increase the number of universities with military departments while simultaneously transferring military departments to technical universities. Such an initiative is connected with the fact that many high schools began to lose their contacts with defense companies for many years, as graduates of these universities actually lost the opportunity to serve military equipment produced by their partner companies in the military. Until today, such graduates today offered the Ministry of Defense to begin military service exclusively as a private soldier on a general basis, which, for obvious reasons, reduced his ability to track the functioning of the equipment that came to military unit from the factory with which his university cooperated. This struck both the prestige of universities, and to a certain extent, the army itself, since not all technical graduates turned out to be after graduating from the military, and the discussion of the qualifications of modern young officers became more and more acute.

Before you start discussing the initiative of the Russian Union of Rectors and representatives of defense enterprises, it is necessary to clarify in which universities the military departments remain today.
Below is a list of those institutions of higher education that today have accredited military departments (data from the federal portal "Russian Education" for 2013 a year):

1. Baltic State Technical University VOENMEH them. D.F. Ustinova (BSTU "VOENMEH") St. Petersburg
accreditation to: 11.12.2013
2. Kostroma State Technological University (Kostroma State Technical University) Kostroma
accreditation to: 11.03.2019
3. Kuban State Agrarian University Krasnodar
accreditation to: 17.02.2015
4. MATI - Russian State Technological University named after K.E. Tsiolkovsky (MATI) Moscow
accreditation to: 27.04.2018
5. Interregional Institute of Economics and Law under the IPA EurAsEC (MIEP under the IPA EurAsEC) St. Petersburg
accreditation to: 17.02.2015
6. Moscow aviation Institute (National Research University) (MAI) Moscow
accreditation to: 08.07.2019
7. Moscow State Technical University named after N.E. Bauman (MSTU named after N.E. Bauman) Moscow
accreditation to: 15.10.2014
8. Moscow State University of Geodesy and Cartography (MIIGAiK) Moscow
accreditation to: 25.04.2016
9. National Research University "MIET" Zelenograd
accreditation to: 24.03.2016
10. National Research Nuclear University MEPhI (NRNU MEPhI) Moscow
accreditation to: 13.12.2015
11. Russian State Hydrometeorological University (RSHMU) St. Petersburg
accreditation to: 01.04.2019
12. Rostov State Medical University (RostGMU) Rostov-on-Don
accreditation to: 31.05.2019
13. Rostov State University of Civil Engineering (RGSU) Rostov-on-Don
accreditation to: 29.12.2018
14. Rostov State University of Communications (RGUPS) Rostov-on-Don
accreditation to: 27.04.2018
15. Ryazan State Radio Engineering University (FGBOU VPO "RGRTU") Ryazan
accreditation to: 29.12.2018
16. St. Petersburg State University (SPbGU) St. Petersburg
accreditation to: 15.10.2014
17. St. Petersburg State University of Aerospace Instrumentation (GUAP) St. Petersburg
accreditation to: 25.07.2018
18. St. Petersburg State University of Telecommunications. prof. M.A. Bonch-Bruevich (SPbSUT) St. Petersburg
accreditation to: 01.04.2019
19. St. Petersburg State Electrotechnical University LETI. IN AND. Ulyanov (Lenin) (St. Petersburg Electrotechnical University "LETI") St. Petersburg
accreditation to: 21.11.2018
20. St. Petersburg National Research University of Information Technologies, Mechanics and Optics (FGBOU VPO "SPbNIU ITMO") St. Petersburg
accreditation to: 29.12.2018
21. St. Petersburg branch of the National Research University "Higher School of Economics" (NRU HSE - St. Petersburg) St. Petersburg
accreditation to: 25.05.2014
22. Siberian State Aerospace University named after Academician M.F. Reshetnev (SibGAU) Krasnoyarsk
accreditation to: 21.11.2018
23. Siberian State University of Telecommunications and Informatics (SibGUTI) Novosibirsk
accreditation to: 29.12.2018
24. Siberian Federal University (SFU) Krasnoyarsk
accreditation to: 29.12.2018
25. Ural Federal University named after the first President of Russia B.N. Yeltsin (UrFU) Yekaterinburg
accreditation to: 11.03.2019
26. Ufa State Aviation Technical University (UGATU) Ufa
accreditation to: 25.07.2018
27. South Russian State Technical University (Novocherkassk Polytechnic Institute) (SRSTU (NPI)) Novocherkassk
accreditation to: 25.06.2018

Frankly speaking, it is somewhat incomprehensible which universities from the members of the RRS (Russian Union of Rectors) members represented in this list defined as humanitarian. Unless, the Interregional Institute of Economics and Law at the EurAsEC IPA, but, apparently, no one touched the military department here, fearing the term “EurAsEC” ...

In general, the rectors spoke about their idea of ​​increasing the number of universities with military departments. At the same time, information was presented, according to which at least 62 Russian universities are ready to open military departments at home. One of these universities is Tula State University, according to the rector of which, the military department at the university at one time allowed to produce specialists of dual purpose - not only qualified engineers, but also professional officers. Today, the university has lost this opportunity.

Having studied the idea of ​​the RSR, the main military department of the country came to the conclusion that it was not advisable to increase the number of universities with military departments. Instead, the Ministry of Defense plans to develop a new direction - scientific companies. In one of the existing scientific companies are graduates of the capital "Baumanki". According to the representatives of MSTU, those who wanted to serve in a scientific company were in abundance. In the summer, no more than 300 people were selected from the 20 volunteers who were assigned to special scientific companies of the East Kazakhstan region and the Navy.

Interestingly, immediately after the remarks of the Tula State University, Mikhail Gryazev, about the demand for graduates of this university, the Ministry of Defense paid close attention to the university. In the course of the autumn 11 draft call, young men, who received TSU State University diplomas this year, went to serve in the third research company of the Ministry of Defense. Five conscripts will serve in the Army in the East Kazakhstan region at the “Krasnogorsk Plant named after S.A. Zverev” engaged in optical and optoelectronic instrument making (creates optical sights, night vision devices and other equipment). The Defense Ministry said that the recruits will be able to at least 4-x once a week to engage in scientific research in the center of the missile attack warning.

If we return to the issue of military departments, then at the time of the (Soviet) in our country such departments were available in more than 85% of institutes and universities (by 1989 year). With the arrival of the first civilian minister of defense, Sergei Ivanov, the number of military departments began to decline sharply. The reasons were different: from the fact that the military department is an office for the cultivation of corruption in higher education institutions, to the point that VC prepares under-engineering and under-officers. In some cases, corruption components were identified, which served as an additional impetus for reducing the number of such departments.

Today, rectors advocating the return of military departments to dozens of universities can, in principle, be understood. Given the demographic problems that led to the recruitment to universities (and not only universities) "at any cost", the heads of higher schools began to reflect on how to increase their (university) attractiveness. Military department as an option. Therefore, the initiative should be considered, rather, as the desire of the RSR to solve university problems, and not the problems of the army. This version fits with the rather strange proposal of rectors to issue sergeant shoulder straps to those bachelor graduates who left military departments. But is it necessary to be a university student for four years to get a sergeant's rank - a question ...

Apparently, the conclusion that the RSR is still more focused on solving their own problems, came to the Ministry of Defense.

Yes, by and large, it would be very strange if the main military department accepted the RSR initiative with a bang. If we fully revive military departments in universities, we would have to abandon the idea of ​​scientific companies, since such “institutions” would actually duplicate each other (in a certain way they already duplicate in the case of the same “Baumanka”). Yes, and with scientific companies for the Ministry of Defense is still much more economical. After all, it will be necessary to think about providing additional housing, paying officer salaries, social guarantees, and in the case of scientific companies, soldiers, as they say, will not eat a lot.

In general, the Defense Ministry, too, seems to be pulling the blanket over itself, trying to cover up its teles. Everything is quite obvious: the RSR defends its interests, the Ministry of Defense - its own. And while the trumps are still more in the main military department. The main thing is that in this conflict of interests, the areas in which organizations stand are not a loser: namely, the system of higher education and the Russian army. And this is the most difficult moment. The case with a draw, and even more so with two winners in the current situation of the coming (or already arrived) market is hardly possible.

Comments

[V. Tarasyan]

The difficult question is these military departments. On the one hand, it is useful both for the country and for students. On the other hand, you talk with the student in the test or exam and you understand that his ceiling is the junior assistant of the senior stoker, but he is studying at the military department and will most likely be an officer. Still, it seems that the officer is a serious person with solid professional knowledge, and here are such gifts.
Now, if inter-university military departments were made with special selection and hard training, this could be an option to get out of the situation. True only with full control.

[INTER]

One does not hurt the other!

[Canep]

Military departments are needed. If they are not there will be practically no officers in reserve. Virtually all peacetime airborne units of the state of peacetime, there weren’t and never were cropped parts of the airborne forces, because it was impossible to understaff them, the military paratrooper departments had never been prepared. Now look at how many tanks are at the storage bases, you will find tank soldiers on them, and if there weren’t military departments, then it would be impossible to equip them with officers.

Quote: V. Tarasyan

and hard training

What does this mean, with a stool on the head, from morning to night on the parade ground, outfits in the dining room and cutlery are only forks if the outfit is fourth year, like in a military school?

[Letnab]

Quote:
Having studied the idea of ​​the RSR, the main military department of the country came to the conclusion that it was not advisable to increase the number of universities with military departments. Instead, the Ministry of Defense plans to develop a new direction - scientific companies.
You are right, scientific companies, it’s some kind of h.r.e. But let it be a troeshnik, but who has received a secondary special and higher education, he will understand the current technology more quickly than an ordinary fighter.

[vladimirZ]

Oh, how embarrassed these reformers are. I support you, military departments are needed.
And on the dispute between the union of rectors and the Ministry of Defense, it is necessary to look at it as a dispute between the union of rectors and Shoigu "polishing" the army reform, promoting the "idea of ​​scientific companies."
The fact that scientific companies are an experiment in advance losing, I think, will confirm anyone who has served in the army and who knows what service is and how military specialists are trained.
Military departments "the bicycle invented long ago", tested for years in the USSR and confirmed its purpose. And to reinvent it again, in the field of additional military education, is stupid.

[Canep]

Scientific companies are greenhouses for the children of officials, oligarchs, and other thieves and profiteers. He himself served after the military department, in the management of the Sary-Ozek division in the technical unit. My opinion: infantrymen, tankers, artillerymen and sappers (engineering troops) 50% of the lieutenants should come from military departments, this will create a sufficient mobile reserve of real wax officers, and for personnel it will facilitate career advancement. Jackets in 90% of cases quit after serving their 2 or 3 years. Yes, and competition and competition between graduates of departments and schools is a good thing, here in Sary-Ozek personnel lieutenants lost to their jackets. Probably because the jacket when entering the troops is shocked (I know by myself) and adapts very quickly, and the personnel thinks that the troops are a continuation of the school and are starting to bluntly. And the personnel experience was not enough: childhood, school, dungeons of the school, and all. Jackets by 50% were already family, and often studying at the university earned extra money.

[vladimirZ]

"My opinion: infantrymen, tankmen, artillerymen and sappers (engineering troops), 50% of the lieutenants should come from military departments ..."

I will add military aviation, the aviation engineering service (IAS): engineers for the operation of aircraft (helicopters) and engines, aviation equipment (AO), radio-electronic equipment (REO), auxiliary aviation services for aerodrome services (BAO).
I am a two-year-old, an engineer operating aircraft and engines, served in 1974-76. as an airplane technician. In our squadron, almost half of the aircraft technicians were two-year-olds, and in no way inferior to personnel, especially the personnel lieutenants of aircraft technicians, at that time were with a secondary technical military education.

[Canep]

I think only the air force’s flight crews, and the fleet’s crews can do without jackets, for them in case of war there will be no reserve equipment, the plane should fly, and the ship does not need to go to sea and reserve l / s (the sailors already have two crews on ship, I don’t know from the flyers), in the remaining branches of the army a reserve is needed.

[vladimirZ]

"I think only the flight personnel of the Air Force, and the seafarers of the fleet can do without jackets ..."

And the flight crew does not consist of pilots alone. Flight technicians and flight engineers are the same specialists in aircraft (helicopter) and engine, navigators, operators.
In Soviet times, navigators trained navigators in the DOSAAF pilots, who later went to serve in combat regiments.

[Mikado]

Do not forget that the military departments mainly have engineering bias and train officers for engineering positions. For example, I faintly imagine how to put a jacket on a command post in the same tank company or platoon, not to mention the Airborne Forces. Therefore, your words about manning tank units with jacket commanders seem strange to me.

[Canep]

In Sary-Ozek in the 90s, the tank regiment was staffed by 90% with two-year students (mainly from Karaganda), and the artillery regiment by 99% (only the regiment commander was a career officer, and the officers were from Ust-Kamenogorsk). Sapper battalion - 1 career officer, combat battalion. 3 personnel, anti-aircraft missile regiment - the regiment commander, a graduate of the military department (lieutenant colonel) was presented to the order of the red star for shooting the regiment at the Emba training ground, personally shot down a target that had left because of a malfunction to a height unattainable for "cubes" (something about 80 meters), he did not receive the order due to the fact that for some reason he hanged himself in the regiment, they say because of a woman, there were 10 personnel in the air defense station, despite the fact that a third of the regiment's l / s were officers. They went to the field exits and to the shooting and carried the troops, despite the lack of spare parts and the almost complete absence of batteries.

[Mikado]

And the former chief of the General Staff, Army General Kvashnin, also graduated from the military department. And only reservists won the war in general, because after three months from the beginning of the war the personnel army practically ceased to exist, so what? People are all different, my friend studied with me, so he was generally accepted as a graduate of the airborne school. In the 90s, they could have shoved them wherever they could, but in the XNUMXs the situation was different. A jacket could have been assigned to a command post (namely to a command post, platoon commander, or company) in two cases if he had already served under a contract or if the unit commander was stupid, then the result could be sad, a few years ago the news flashed like a jacket-commander’s platoon of a soldier shot, a drunken grandfather.

[Canep]

Quote: Mikado

the jacket could have come on two occasions if he had already served under a contract

And where to get the contractor’s fly if there are no military departments? Chairs are needed, only selection of graduates is still needed.

[m.asfa]

After graduation in the early 70s, I served in a combat engineer battalion. The first year, almost all platoon commanders were biennials. Then personnel began to come from the Tyumen school (there was the first graduation with higher education), but there was not much difference in the training of soldiers, all the more so sergeants came from school. Well, the idea with companies is incomprehensible nonsense of the Ministry of Higher Education and the Ministry of Defense.

[rubin6286]

In my opinion, military departments, as they are today, are not needed. They were completely unnecessary in Soviet times. They can teach nothing but drill training. Teachers have long forgotten the time when they were in the army, and some of them were there themselves for 2 years, or even were not at all, and nevertheless rose to great stars on uniform. In Soviet times, good strong guys from the “two-year-olds” were a rarity and an exception. Basically, the officers and commanders of the students were none. If they knew something else by their civilian specialty, then militarily they did not differ at all from a soldier - a conscript. They did not use any authority, classes with personnel they did not trust them to conduct. The two-year-olds wore outfits, and even then they didn’t do everything: they didn’t put them where arms were handed out to them (assistant duty officer on duty, head of the guard). They retired to the reserve, none of the “personnel” regretted. Some biennial bachelors often drunk for 2 years, while others saved up money "for demobilization" and tried, as best they could, to improve their financial situation. By the way, few remained in the army after 2 years and, mainly, for material reasons, especially those who got into habitable garrisons and got at least some living space. The behavior of biennials outside the unit caused their commanders a constant "headache" - drunkenness, hooliganism, domestic licentiousness - all this was. It is good that many of these departments with fat-bellied colonels were dispersed, and the rest must be dispersed.

As for sports and scientific companies, they are not needed either. In a motorized rifle platoon, we primarily need those who will shoot accurately, courageously and skillfully fight hand-to-hand with the enemy and dig the ground while standing and lying down, in order to save themselves until they collide with the enemy “chest to chest”. Good athletes will pull the rest to their level, they can become junior commanders. We need a well-thought-out system of encouraging and stimulating soldiers-athletes to improve their skills. If it comes to young people who have to deal with sophisticated weapons systems that require knowledge of computer science, optics, computer systems, electronics, locations, communications, etc. etc., then this contingent should be selected from the cadet classes and school buildings, after which they should enter the contract service with subsequent training in special training centers of the corresponding types of armed forces and combat arms. Here, too, you need to train and educate so that people have a desire to become a professional military man. This is not the case when a person goes to military service under a contract for material reasons. I have not met a single one who would agree to put his head under bullets for money. A professional is not a mercenary! How many of them need to be taught there, I think there is someone to decide in the country. The main thing is that there is someone to teach them everything that you need to be able to and how to be able to defeat a physically and technically well-trained enemy. Sometimes I look at young lieutenants - it seems like recently in the army: the uniform sits baggy, stomachs appear. Some people forgot when they did a “rivet” on the crossbar, jumped over a horse, ran a “strip of pleasure”.
One method: drill, drill and drill again. Loose. untrained soldier, sergeant, officer of the tension of modern combat will not stand. It is necessary to take a stricter approach to admission to Suvorov and Nakhimov schools. This is the "future of the army and navy" and it should be in good hands.

[Was mammoth]

Quote: rubin6286

One method: drill, drill and drill again.

It would be nice if the soldiers served for 25 years, as before.
Let me ask you. What kind of service did you have and to which ranks, posts have you been promoted with that opinion?

Quote: rubin6286

If it comes to young people who have to deal with sophisticated weapons systems that require knowledge of computer science, optics, computer systems, electronics, locations, communications, etc. etc., then this contingent must be selected from cadet classes and school buildings

Do you think that a graduate of, say, a radio engineering university, whose specialty is not capable of creating equipment for the army as a graduate of a military school?
PS Reading your comment, I remembered the hero of one play, General Skalozub.

[Per se.]

Quote: V. Tarasyan

Now, if inter-university military departments were made with special selection and hard training, this could be an option to get out of the situation. True only with full control.

Sports companies, scientific companies, what other companies can we have? Neither the military department at a civilian university, nor the "scientific company" can solve the problem of increasing the country's defense capability. Simply, in one case, the appearance of training an "officer" is created, in the other the appearance of "scientific work". In tsarist times, the rank of "ensign" was an officer, it was awarded to those who completed an accelerated course in military schools or the school of warrant officers who passed the exam according to a specific program. In wartime, the rank of ensign could be awarded without exams for military service to non-commissioned officers with a technical and higher civil education. The rank of "ensign" was a transitional bridge from civil education to military education, from gifted non-commissioned officers to officers. In Soviet times, the rank of ensign became not a bridge, but an "appendix", a separate branch, giving rise to a bunch of army jokes on this topic. It would be reasonable to return everything to "normal", calling suitable students not to "scientific companies", but to ensign schools (or to courses in military schools), respectively, returning this rank as an officer, instead of "junior lieutenant".

[Same lech]

Scientific companies are also a difficult issue.
In the departments there is at least the necessary equipment and professionalism in scientific companies. What?
Another trend of reform - then it will turn out to be a bluff and profanity as it has been more than once.

[os9165]

The Ministry of Defense says that recruits will be able to engage in research and development at least 4 times a week — they have worked with efficiency - 5% - in the army, the military departments work according to the same scheme - but there are more costs. A new structure is needed to attract full-fledged scientific staff not for 12 months but for a longer period and with a PBC of 100%. To increase the country's defense capability, radically altered military departments are more appropriate. We are not so rich to buy cheap things.

[corn]

Military departments
Leningrad region-9
Moskovskaya-6
Rostov-4
Regarding the service in scientific companies, of course, graduates will ask for them, because more comfortable conditions of service, as in sports.
Regarding military departments, if there remains a conscription system: bachelor, specialist sergeant, master officer. I think that not all bachelors become masters. Moreover, training is voluntary.
And if the manning of the army is only on a contract basis, then what spears to break.

[Basilevs]

Quote: corn

Military departments
Leningrad region-9
Moskovskaya-6
Rostov-4

Volgograd GAU forgot.

[alone]

Quote: Basilevs

Volgograd GAU forgot.

after your clarification, there is a feeling that no one really knows exactly how many military departments in the country are in the country

[Narrator.tales]

I agree, but the rigidity of character generally depends on the person and is "built" at a young age UNDER 18, if not earlier. On VK they teach for more than one year as in the army, there is a much greater chance of getting someone who can at least look at the sight. Scientific companies, especially after the show on TV, where 3,5 soldiers talk to the camera about abstruse things (in fact, nothing), showed that this is a misunderstanding. Fiz.rota is good, my grandfather was in it, and yes, of course, MOST of the time it was sports, not military training, otherwise it’s not a CP, but an ordinary one with enhanced physical training. Scientific companies are not sitting at a computer *, but the study of processes and phenomena in technology and attempts to improve it or create something new, directly serving on it, ala Kalashnikov and its improvement - "After the course of junior commanders, he received the specialty of a tank driver and served in the 12th Panzer Division. Already there he showed his inventive abilities - he developed an inertial counter of shots from a tank gun, an adaptation for a TT pistol to increase the efficiency of firing through slots in a tank turret, a tank's engine life counter "- a quote from the wiki.

[IRBIS]

Please answer me: why should "jackets" be given officer ranks? For a laugh? Well, read to him, after going through the training camp, the department for service in the army, but why is the title? And, most importantly, for what? For the fact that he drank for five years, drank beer, fucked women, and never saw a living fighter?

[Mikado]

What indignation)) In Stalin's time, a person who graduated from a university was immediately awarded the title of "captain", while those who graduated from college were only given a "lieutenant". The Army needs not only commanders, but also engineers, which is why all military schools are divided into two types - engineering and command (there were still political schools before). Military departments train engineers, he thinks (in my time) that an officer-engineer after a university is a better specialist than an officer from a military engineering school, because in schools they pull everyone as best they can, but in a technical university no one will pull you, rather drown you. As for "drinking beer and baldel," it is very controversial, in some departments, most likely, it was, but they were successfully closed. For example, when I was studying, the military department in our record book was listed with only one credit (or exam), but in fact, in order to get one credit, it was necessary at the department itself to pass five internal tests in different disciplines - topography, two military special training, two tactical training, plus a relatively free drill and physical training. And it turned out in my semester not one session, but two). Well, the learning process itself delivered, three lectures a day, the two must be corrected within two weeks, otherwise expulsion. Thus, half of the platoon was expelled from the military department. Here's a beer with a bastard) Although I drank of course)

[IRBIS]

Quote: Mikado

In Stalin's time, a person who graduated from a university was immediately awarded the title of "captain"

This is after what university?

Quote: Mikado

Military departments train engineers, it is believed (in my time) that an engineer officer after a university is a better specialist than an officer from a military engineering school

Surround, Dear! This is what a fright engineer from a university is better versed in the tank than the one that four years, and now five years, did not get off it?

Quote: Mikado

About "drinking beer and baldel" is very controversial

Come on? Are all students sleeping in the barracks, blown up by alarm, and crawling at the training grounds in any weather? What are you talking about? Are you trying to put on a blackboard a civilian type of greenhouse conditions and a cadet, staggered like a dog?

Quote: Mikado

In this way, half of the platoon was expelled from the military department.

So this is "from the department", not from the institute.

[Mikado]

Quote: IRBIS

This is after what university?

after any civil pre-reform in 1955
http://www.opoccuu.com/capitan.htm

Quote: IRBIS

Surround, Dear! This is what a fright engineer from a university is better versed in the tank than the one that four years, and now five years, did not get off it?

Do you think that a person with higher education - an engineer (who graduated from a military or civilian university) should understand only one thing, for example, in a tank? It seems to me that a driver-mechanic with the rank of corporal with a year of service behind him is quite enough for this business. And an officer-engineer must understand a much larger amount of information than a tank and not only understand, he must be able to get the necessary information from sources, be able to work with them. Therefore, this example, stupid chtoli, could also be asked "is it possible that an engineer from a university understands a Kalashnikov assault rifle better than the one that hasn’t climbed it for five years?" two minutes, and with the subsequent training and in half a minute, then what?

Quote: IRBIS

Come on? Are all students sleeping in the barracks, blown up by alarm, and crawling at the training grounds in any weather? What are you talking about? Are you trying to put on a blackboard a civilian type of greenhouse conditions and a cadet, staggered like a dog?

Gentlemen)) That's how many I do not listen to cadets, all as one, as if they lived in hell, in Spartan conditions, as soon as they survived in such inhuman conditions it is not clear. And only the officers who urgently unwound to the school say that the school is an earthly paradise in comparison with the real soldier’s barracks) We had night alarms at the training camps with an 8-km march to the firing range and back with firing across rivers, fields, swamps, with armor plates, helmets , with automatic rifles, you return as one continuous lump of dirt, then you clean the automatic rifle, but I always was in such a buzz from all this, words can’t convey, you feel like a real man, not like painting fences. Drilling a solemn march for six hours, too, is high, I saw military parades only on TV and on the main street of the city, and here I myself am in the form of an orchestra, and it’s high, and I don’t give a damn about the mazolas, and you’re all pissed, how bad you are from this total was)

Quote: IRBIS

So this is "from the department", not from the institute.

From the department, yes (of course, no one pulled at the institute either). This suggests what method of training was that of fools and idlers
they didn’t keep there and officer shoulder straps were handed out to anyone. And if you studied at a military school, you know very well how people are literally pulling their ears, even to the point that it is difficult to get out of school even if you wish.

[Lopatov]

Quote: Mikado

Gentlemen)) That's how many I do not listen to cadets, all as one, as if they lived in hell, in Spartan conditions, as soon as they survived in such inhuman conditions it is not clear.

Not hell, you get over everything, but studying is much more difficult than at the institute.

Quote: Mikado

And only the officers who urgently unwound before the school say that the school is a paradise on earth in comparison with a real soldier’s barracks)

But this is a shameless lie. They got out, stuffed their price. And then dumped, could not stand it. Our battery received 12 people from the troops. Only one was learned to the end. And then thanks to the fact that he was the foreman of the battery.

Quote: Mikado

up to the point that even on one’s own will it’s hard to get out of school.

Yah? After the enrollment, there were 140 of us. 78 have been released.

[Mikado]

Quote: Spade

Not hell, you get over everything, but studying is much more difficult than at the institute.

well, it’s so difficult at first, in most places it’s hard at first even in the same university, nothing is clear after school, all stereotypes and ideas break down at once, you have to rebuild, and then the school, among other things, all together 24 hours, the grinding of characters begins, conflicts. But then, you see, normal life began, in vain there are so many cadet songs about their releases and how they will miss it all.

Quote: Spade

But this is a shameless lie. They got out, stuffed their price.

Well, it was told to me by all respected, including me, military officers and more than once.

Quote: Spade

Yah? After the enrollment, there were 140 of us. 78 have been released.

my brother studied at the Academy of Space Forces in Moscow, less than a third graduated from his group, but it was not a matter of the educational process. In the third or fourth year, the youthful patriotism disappeared from the guys, they began to understand that they would have to serve far, far and for a penny, while there were three or four years of cadet service (two years of cadet service was equivalent to a year of military service), that is, the army they don’t shine plus in Moscow, that is, well, into this army — we leave the school, transfer to which thread of the Moscow Aviation Institute (there were special groups for former cadets) and voila. Only trouble was, they violently did not want to expel them from the school. I had to play in the top ten, but this was a long time, so the gifted ones fried sausages on eternal flame on May 9, they were quickly expelled. For this reason, only a third of my brother’s group graduated.

[Lopatov]

Quote: Mikado

Well, it was told to me by all respected, including me, military officers and more than once.

Feel free to call them balabolami-earned.

Quote: Mikado

my brother studied at the Academy of Space Forces in Moscow, less than a third graduated from his group, but it was not a matter of the educational process.

We had the first big dropout during and after the KMB, before the oath. Those who fled, where they got to, fled. They were lucky, they left for a civilian. The second big is the first summer session. Most of them left due to physical training. Our department was tough. This was no luck, they left for Kapyar for a year. Then, before signing the contract, about 10 people left, refused. To serve too. Well, then about equally divided studies and flights. No sausages on fire, it was enough to get drunk. Get out yourself, just spit. No one held. We left one for family.

I do not know how in the Academy of Space Forces, but in command schools the service is definitely tougher. The system is simple - to know how to command subordinates, you need to experience all this on yourself.

[Mikado]

I think it plays a greater role here, how the authorities will put everything in place, how they will build service and study in their institutions. But what was interesting was noticed, service and education in schools vary in military garrisons. In our garrison in all three schools, cooks stole food in wagons, in schools in the Moscow garrison this was not the case, in our garrison on charging in the morning cadets were not very quickly chased, in Moscow all three of them were standardly done in the morning.

[vladimirZ]

IRBIS
So this is "from the department", not from the institute.

In Soviet times, classes in the military department were mandatory for everyone, excluding girls and unsuitable for military health service.
During his studies, expulsion from the military department automatically led to expulsion from the institute and conscription. So that discipline and compulsory attendance at a military department were and no one could afford to ignore it.
And the quality of knowledge was given appropriate, no one pulled by the ears, you can’t and aren’t doing your job with the program, you were expelled for academic debt without any talk.

[Fin]

Quote: Mikado

And it turned out in my semester not one session, but two whole). Well, the learning process itself delivered, three flies per day, the two must be corrected within two weeks, otherwise deduction.

Wow what hardships suffered. Yes, after this order it was necessary to give at least a major position. And now you add to your written barracks life for 5 years according to the charter, combat (field) exits, outfits, 30 days vacation (winter at the discretion of the company), etc. I will not list everything, those who passed know. And this whole HORROR without MOM with DAD and pies

[Mikado]

Oh, let’s no longer be stiff, put pressure on pity and don’t finish talking, especially telling tales about the horrors of barracks life in the school. Maybe in some Omsk special forces school and have been living all five years in the barracks from vacation to vacation without climbing out of the fence, everything was much simpler in our native land, in the car, in communication, in the fool, I think the same as with you. In the first year, after the camps, they were released into the ал oval every weekend (except for those who are on duty), from the third year (now from the second), they were released into the ал oval every day after the sampo, and family members were generally released until morning. The fifth course already lived in a hostel. Living under the charter is allowed only with officers, starting from the third year it is allowed to ignore it (for example, how many times I have not been to school, the second year was constantly resting in bed during the afternoon after lunch). Just HORROR does not live))) Especially when you consider that a third of the students are nonresident and they themselves live without mom and dad)

[Lopatov]

Quote: Mikado

In the first year, after the camps, they let off every weekend in the ridge (except for those who are outfitted)

Only 30% of the unit.

Quote: Mikado

from the third year (now from the second one) they are released into the bump every day after the sampo, while the family was generally released until the morning.

If there are no "tails" and flights. And it was difficult.

Quote: Mikado

for example, how many times have I not been to school, the second course was constantly resting in bed during the daytime after lunch, resting

That's right, you need to rest. But here the main thing is again not to fly in.

[Mikado]

Quote: Spade

Only 30% of the unit.

I remember my brother-in-law didn’t fall into these thirty percent in his first oval, and then he unexpectedly called and said that they had sent everyone to the oval except the outfit and the next shift, why xs. This was, of course, some kind of exception, but I don’t think that everywhere this quota was strictly strictly observed.

Quote: Spade

If there are no "tails" and flights. And it was difficult.

The first time I got in touch, I was in the location of a landing platoon, and they have a performance chart on the wall there by name, by whom, how many and in what subjects bolts. There was no living place. But everything went smoothly into the ridge) But, it is true, according to the same cadets, such a bliss was only related to paratroopers, the usual communications cadet with two bolts was no longer allowed to go into the ridge in the first courses)

[Lopatov]

Quote: Mikado

The first time I got in touch, I was in the location of a landing platoon, and they have a performance chart on the wall there by name, by whom, how many and in what subjects bolts. There was no living place. But everything went smoothly into the ridge)

It depends on which school. I spent 7 days on the lip for flying in to the parade ground with the button unbuttoned open.

[Alex 241]

Ha, five days for not washing in the bath. How?

[Lopatov]

It happens. I served 26 days in five years. And he was not a record holder. I didn’t sit in a platoon at all, we only had one castle. For which we periodically teased him, they say, "I have not seen the service." Although in real life he got more than us on the ears, regularly, and for whatever.
Shit when the college has its own lip, getting there becomes easier than blowing your nose.

[Alex 241]

Cool in your department. Isn't Kolomna?

[Lopatov]

Quote: Alex 241

Is it Kolomna?

But what about. We were famous. They said that a bigger madhouse is only in MosVOKU, but somehow I weakly believe in it.

The most enchanting thing that we had was a total check of abstracts. They should have had all the lectures, including those missed because of the outfits and so on.

[Alex 241]

You didn’t put MosVok in your belt. Have you heard of the faculty of landing artillery?

[Lopatov]

Faculty of land, faculty of the Airborne Forces, and a platoon of marines and VBO. In common parlance "mabuta", "plywood" and "tazy"

[Fin]

Quote: Mikado

Oh, let’s no longer be stiff, put pressure on pity and don’t finish talking, especially telling tales about the horrors of barracks life in the school.

There were no horrors, no one complains. In the USSR there was a strict system of education and training that I went through. I do not want to tell you something and prove it. One of the troubles of our country is amateurs who have not been in the shoes of others (who do not have the appropriate education) trying to reason and give advice. And God forbid they fall into their hands. positions - ass comes for what they take.

[Mikado]

You know, I want to agree with you, but I can't. There are plenty of examples when a person, an obvious dilettante in business and has never "been in the shoes", turns out to be better than a seasoned one) Take Mikhail Vasilyevich Frunze, not a military man, a professional revolutionary, after the revolution showed himself to be a talented commander, became the largest military leader in the period civil war, commanded the army (immediately, bypassing all other steps), the front, defeated Kolchak, Wrangel. Chief of the General Staff and the Military Academy. He wrote a number of military theoretical works. Who would have thought that some revolutionary, who did not hold a rifle in his hands, is capable of such a thing, but that's how it happened.

[Fin]

Quote: Mikado

You know, I want to agree with you, but I can’t. Full examples when a person who is an obvious dilettante in business and has never "been in the shoes" is better than a seasoned one)

You found one example, but you forgot to name the chiefs of staff in his army. Moreover, his first experience was unsuccessful. Do you think he’s books? This is called not to interfere with specialists, but learned from them + talent. Such units.

[Mikado]

Well, why did I find one, not one - Voroshilov, Budyonny, Chapaev (the last two, although they had combat experience, but only as a non-commissioner), plus fewer others, did not paint all of them. Of course, they are many times smaller than usual, which would only harm, but they are. And what would happen if someone from the higher management considered that they were amateurs and it is better not to trust them?) But history does not know the subjunctive mood.

[wanderer]

I’ve seen specialists from military engineering schools. I must say that boobs come across no less than in civilian universities

[IRBIS]

Quote: wanderer

I must say that idiots come across no less than in civilian universities

But still. There are much, well, much more goonies in military affairs among "jackets" than among graduates of military schools. Do not equate civilian institute and military academy.

[Lopatov]

More correctly, the majority of boobies. And sometimes they are dangerous not only for themselves.

[servant.]

If we compare the two-year-olds of graduates of the Moscow Aviation Institute, Moscow Energy and technical officers of graduates of Vasyuk, Kaliningrad or Perm, then there has never been a comparison in favor of personnel except for drill training and the amount of consumed sivuhi ... So it was earlier, the level of current graduates of higher schools (academies) of the Air Force high, but does not reach the level of those graduates of secondary schools of Vasyuk, Kaliningrad or Perm, with those two-year-olds and the language will not turn to compare ...

[Lopatov]

We have released a two-year-old according to their own gender "Gradovsky" package. Of the 5 batteries of the artillery regiment, two survived - the battalion commander and one soldier, who was standing on duty. The volley also caught the tankers, 6 dead, so they hid him in the zindan near the reconnaissance battalion looking for him with a signal pistol, wanted to shove him in the ass and shoot.

The main problem of two-year-olds is not near-zero knowledge, but a complete inability to command subordinates.

[servant.]

How many staff members failed? Well, the ability to manage subordinates is not given to everyone, among personnel such a dime a dozen ..

[Lopatov]

Of the personnel when I did not allow such stocks. Nevertheless, the combat work at the OP was hammered into us at a subconscious level.

And I also did not meet personnel drinking vodka in the locker with my subordinates. And "jackets" only came across to me twice.

[servant.]

We served in different troops ... How could you give examples, to blame ... What is the point? I served in aviation, so I repeat - putting on a par with the graduates of the Moscow Aviation Institute, MIIGA, Energy and graduates of secondary military schools is at least stupid! Although of course there were only unique students, there were no idiots in terms of knowledge of technology, among personnel there was a norm. About the current graduates of the Air Force schools and talk is not hunting ...

[Lopatov]

And I served in the infantry regiment. And for all the time of service I came across only two almost normal biennials. One competent in the specialty, the other was able to handle subordinates.

You will agree, we had a slightly different specificity. But if the sergeant-sergeant prepared by me can fulfill the duties of a fire platoon commander better than a jacket after a military pulpit, then, in fact, why do troops have such two-year-olds?

[servant.]

In peacetime, they probably aren’t needed ... It’s not the generals who win the war, school teachers and parish priests win the war. (Bismarck). It’s something like if there is a war ...

[Lopatov]

Quote: serviceman.

It’s not generals who win wars, school teachers and parish priests win wars. (Bismarck). Something like this if there is a war ...

Better let sergeants rule. Military departments - profanity, giving only the illusion of training officers-commanders.

[family tree]

In the USSR, from the "jackets" of draft age, the most stupid of them were sent to the army, since the smart ones did not want to lose the director, and the military commissar did not want to spoil relations with these directors and with the secretary of the district committee (city committee)

[servant.]

Quote: perepilka

In the USSR, from the "jackets" of draft age, the most stupid of them were sent to the army, since the smart ones did not want to lose the director, and the military commissar did not want to spoil relations with these directors and with the secretary of the district committee (city committee)

Nonsense! Where did you get such nonsense?

[family tree]

Quote: serviceman.

Nonsense! Where did you get such nonsense?

There were exceptions from life, a servant, from personal experience, but rarely. The main contingent came from those who, after university, got to work out according to the distribution, for three years, their personnel officers clicked for a couple of months, who was capable of what and tried to keep the smart ones, by hook or by crook, because after two years in "jackets", they were far from the fact that the friend will return to the same enterprise.

[vladimirZ]

"In the USSR, from the" jackets "of draft age, the most stupid of them were sent to the army ..."

You're not right. The military department sent the best graduates to the troops, there was a "competition" among the curators of the department's training platoons who would send more of their "friends" to the troops, because the department teachers also had to earn stars.
We have our own experience, from our graduation in the specialty of 50 people, 10 people were sent to the army, of the first 15-20 going for distribution.
It makes no sense for the military department to send the "bad" to the troops, it was their prestige. This was the case in the USSR.
Another question is when biennial students were called up 3-5-10 years after graduation. This contagent, who had already forgotten the knowledge gained, may have been "weak", and even if he did not work in his specialty.
And if by profession, then the two-year-old still gave a head start on technology - experience in civil aviation was more than in the army.
An example of my classmate at the university, called up 3 or 4 years after the university and work on aviation specialties, served 2 years as a biennial, remained on staff, passed all levels of the IAS service, including deputy regiment commander for IAS, quit lieutenant colonel, which not every personnel will reach.

[kind]

Quote: Canep

Scientific companies are greenhouses for the children of officials, oligarchs, and other thieves and profiteers. He himself served after the military department, in the management of the Sary-Ozek division in the technical unit. My opinion: infantrymen, tankers, artillerymen and sappers (engineering troops) 50% of the lieutenants should come from military departments, this will create a sufficient mobile reserve of real wax officers, and for personnel it will facilitate career advancement. Jackets in 90% of cases quit after serving their 2 or 3 years. Yes, and competition and competition between graduates of departments and schools is a good thing, here in Sary-Ozek personnel lieutenants lost to their jackets. Probably because the jacket when entering the troops is shocked (I know by myself) and adapts very quickly, and the personnel thinks that the troops are a continuation of the school and are starting to bluntly. And the personnel experience was not enough: childhood, school, dungeons of the school, and all. Jackets by 50% were already family, and often studying at the university earned extra money.

You had some super jackets in Sary Ozek, or you were being cooked badly at the school.

[oldstaryi]

Nowadays, reserve officers graduated from the military department in two directions: commanders and engineers. When asked about the level of training, the personnel officer said that you have no equal in terms of knowledge, but with discipline .... In my issue, many people took to launch Buran in Baikonur (this is about the knowledge of materiel ..)

[corn]

At present, the question of the necessity or uselessness of military departments and the forms of their existence can be considered only in conjunction with other questions of military development.
Army contract or draft. This implies the compulsory or non-obligatory training at the military department, as well as the amount of remuneration and liability for training.
In Soviet universities, the military department was compulsory, as was the general military duty, therefore, some of the graduates of universities, as well as some of the conscripts, served unscrupulously - they "mowed" high intelligence, then they mowed down more sophisticated, and the punishment system for two-year students was ineffective, because. they do not need growth in service, and you cannot deprive all kinds of allowances. If I am not mistaken, then since 1975. the right to arrest a junior officer was taken away from the regiment commander.
Ksati from the field of human psychology:
20% will work no matter how much they are paid (workaholics),
20% will NOT work no matter how much they are paid (lazy people),
the rest depending on the payment (average people).
At present, forcing students to study at military departments is forcibly problematic, but voluntarily expensive.
Although the law on the mobilization reserve (with material compensation) is already beginning to be implemented, and it is possible that the training of reserve officers will return, as one of the options, through military departments.
Something the whole article has turned out.

[oldstaryi]

It was impossible to deflect from the department. Regardless of academic performance, when expelled from the military department, they were immediately expelled from the university ...

[okroshka79]

I believe that it largely depends on the personal qualities of the young officer, whether he was from yesterday’s students or yesterday’s cadets. At my service there were both smart and dumb among those and others. I believe that in engineering positions, especially those related to radio engineering, robotic and computational models of VT and the like, requiring deep technical knowledge, the benefits of graduates of military departments are more, because In any case, for the same period of study, they receive a greater amount of engineering disciplines, since in addition to this purely military sciences are taught in military universities and the amount of training time for studying engineering disciplines automatically becomes less. In addition, in military missions at defense enterprises, in design bureaus and NGOs, graduates of military departments are even more preferable to use. From this we can conclude - we need both. But scientific companies, in my opinion, are completely useless, yet another eccentricities of the present time. And yet, for some reason now in the leading circles of the Armed Forces it has become believed that before them there were sheer fools. Therefore, started a continuous reformism without end and edge. Only then did it cost our country to poke any shackler with weapons in the world, as all the tails were tight.

[unserman]

At one time, he managed to graduate from the Naval Department (VMK) in the highest seamen, before the reduction of the department. IMHO, the reduction of the IUD in higher maritime educational institutions is not common sense. Especially against the background of it is not clear why there are VCs in economic universities, EurAsEC, etc. And they simply have to be in maritime universities! And that's why:

The specifics of the maritime and naval specialties are very close, and, by and large, a naval specialist in the command of the ship can replace an officer quite easily. This is especially true for the composition of the electro-mechanical service. As for the navigation service, there are a few more nuances and differences, but the specifics are still related. What can I say, both those and those are sailors. Moreover, often a civilian sailor has more marine experience than a naval officer (with his own nuances, of course), especially against the backdrop of the general downtime of the navy in the 90s.

In addition, it is worth noting that the students at the VMK were not students at all at their university (the Maritime Academy), but full-fledged cadets, wearing a naval uniform for all 5,5 years of study, and not only on a "war day", carrying outfits, number and purpose which is comparable to the Naval Schools (except for the guard), engaged in drill training in the junior years ... Moreover, when I studied, we had a mandatory barracks position for the first 2 years. It is a pity that all this was not included in the term of service in the army. Each company had a commander for the entire 5,5-year cycle — a current naval officer (at the time). This is the fundamental difference between us and those who are usually called "jackets", i.e. VK graduate students. And when we, graduates of maritime academies, are called "jackets", this is not entirely correct. In the civilian fleet, you also need to command and obey (with its own specifics, of course). I personally have familiar officers - graduates of our sailor. They serve on a par with cadres, although they themselves went to serve voluntarily, and not by conscription, i.e. themselves are already personnel. Personal qualities already play a role here.

The strange thing is that the VMK was then removed, but the barracks position (only for the 1st year) was preserved! Plus the shift, the commanders (already retired officers of the Navy) - everything remains, albeit in a relaxed form! The question is why should this be maintained if the university does not already have a military training complex? After all this, to serve as a MATROSOM in the fleet? Or an ordinary soldier in the army? Marasmus! I repeat: all this military component (companies, outfits, commanders, uniforms, barracks), IMHO, makes sense ONLY if there is a military training complex at the university. Moreover, if there is a goal to train full-fledged reserve officers, then the presence of a naval base and military system seems necessary, as it was before. And we’ve got everything inside out ... Here are some scientific companies that have come up with ...

As a result, in order to become a sailor (not a military man), a young guy, again IMHO, it makes more sense to go to any Institute of water transport (there never was a naval complex), calmly unlearn there as a student, without any outfits, drill, and other military component ...

And the prestige of naval academies after the abolition of the Naval Forces, has already fallen below the plinth. What did you achieve in the end? ..

[makarov]

Quote: Fin

Yes, after this order it was necessary to give at least a major position. And now you add to your written barracks life for 5 years according to the charter, combat (field) exits, outfits, 30 days vacation (winter at the discretion of the company), etc. I will not list everything, those who passed know.

I will give one example.
Lieutenant Khamzin arrived at our military training, after the department came to military service, a year later he got a senior, at the end of the next year (before demobilization) he was offered to stay in the SA, and as a bonus he was backed up with the promise of an extraordinary rank. He stayed in the ranks and immediately got a captain. That's "equality", a professional soldier after 5 years of barracks, hardships and hardships, in order to get a cap, he had to serve the qualification well, not 2 years ...

[washi]

Read. I realized.
My findings:
First service. Not to serve on the budget do not accept. Service 2 years.
At military departments - for those who served, that is, for all state employees: raising the educational level (both general military and civil). Assigning ranks and issuing a diploma after exercises with independent performance of official duties (reimbursement of the cost of equipment and life of victims at the expense of subjects)
In military educational institutions:
Restore junior, high schools for sergeants and warrant officers.
Restore secondary and higher schools for warrant officers and officers.
Restore academies for professional higher military education
All students enrolled in the military education system should be considered contracted military personnel and have a barracks position, with the exception of the last year of higher schools and academies.
Those expelled from military educational institutions, as well as from military departments, are required to pay the amount spent on their training and are considered not to have passed military service.
Missed something.

[gallville]

I will express my opinion.
Military departments are needed. BUT they must be of the appropriate level.
In addition, admission to "VK" should be possible only for a certain list of professions, primarily technical, a clear number of places for representatives of the "rear" of psychologists, economists, lawyers, something like a "set for a unit" - ie. a clear number to form a unit. A separate topic is doctors.
At the moment, they are being driven from all faculties into one platoon and trained in the same way - which means that universities must receive specialization, someone prepares only techies with "studying the details of the tank" some university prepares "psychologists, lawyers, economists."
Further strengthen the requirements for training, as well as the availability of material resources at the university - is it not possible? - close. Well, of course, the control on the part of the Moscow Region — inspections — is planned and unscheduled.
In addition, finally introduce benefits for those who served in the Army - free education at a university in a technical specialty - with the possibility of a military department (free and without exams).