Military Review

Evgeny Pozhidaev: Maneuvers Minsk-Moscow-Kiev: what is the Customs Union without Ukraine?

164
Evgeny Pozhidaev: Maneuvers Minsk-Moscow-Kiev: what is the Customs Union without Ukraine?During the last month, rather exotic political maneuvers took place to the west of the Russian borders. So, during the visit of the Ukrainian Prime Minister Mykola Azarov to Minsk, well-known theses were once again voiced, passionately loved by the Ukrainian authorities and propaganda. “Russia directly tells us:“ We will complicate your life. ”I ask the question, why do we have to complicate life? On the contrary, it should be made simpler, more joyful. There should be no barriers just because there are no grounds for that.” "Ukraine has two dozen such agreements. I remind those who are not aware of this, that we had a free trade regime with all our neighbors before their accession to the EU. With Slovakia, Bulgaria, the Czech Republic, Estonia, etc. This is absolutely did not prevent us from trading with Russia, just as it did not prevent us from working with Belarus and other countries, "said the head of the Ukrainian government.


If you call a spade a spade, in this case we are talking about unveiled extortion. Ukraine’s entry into a free trade zone with the EU while maintaining the most favored nation status with the countries of the Customs Union means for the latter an actual reduction of customs duties for European producers to the current Ukrainian level (that straight-line re-export will flourish, obviously) - that is, significantly and at the same time one way. At the same time, it is somewhat strange to compare Estonia and Slovakia with Germany and France. Equally impressive will be the growth of goods squeezed out of the Ukrainian market - while the symmetrical growth of Russian exports to Ukraine cannot be in principle (on the contrary, it will decrease due to increased competition and the inevitable decline in effective demand, now supported by gigantic debt overhang and overvalued hryvnia ). In other words, the Russian Federation is invited to pay for the simple and joyful life of the Kiev government, with its own hands placing itself in discriminatory terms of trade with the EU and Ukraine.

This is arrogance even by the standards of Ukrainian foreign policy, the authors of which invariably and by default view the eastern neighbor as a kind of quasi-colonial territory and a source of free resources. It is all the more striking that this position has found a complete understanding of the official Minsk. Belarus almost straightforwardly made it clear that it would not make changes to its own customs regime with Ukraine. At the same time, a little earlier, she practically sabotaged sanctions against Ukrainian and Lithuanian products. Finally, Minsk "welcomed" the process of Ukrainian European integration. In other words, the Customs Union, not having time to take shape, began to drift to the format "2 plus 1", and Lukashenko tried to put into practice the dream of Yanukovych about selective observance of the "favorable" rules of the vehicle.

At a meeting of the Supreme Eurasian Economic Council and the Council of Heads of CIS States 24 October, the picking continued. This time, along with the next series of economic claims, the Belarusian position emerged, firstly, about the need to take into account the interests of Azerbaijan if Armenia is admitted to the Customs Union, which practically means freezing its expansion plans. The next was the idea of ​​Kazakhstan to admit to the CU Turkey, which is already part of the free trade zone with the European Union and is in close relations with Baku.

Nevertheless, the countries of the Customs Union managed to agree on the agreed increase in duties on Ukrainian products in the event Kiev signed the Association Agreement with the EU. In other words, the creep to the "2 plus 1" format has stopped. Lukashenko, bargaining and working for the public, actually passed Ukraine.

So, within the CU, we see a set of contradictory trends. How will the situation develop further? The motives of the main players are quite transparent. The Ukrainian elite, publicly convincing the population that the free trade zone with the EU is a notorious source of heavenly manna, in reality, understands perfectly well that it is possible to enter it relatively painlessly only in one way - at the Russian expense. Hence, for example, the epic plans of Azarov to double exports to the Russian Federation (while their epic frankly smacks of re-exports). On the contrary, the weakening of trade relations with Russia will simply turn the Ukrainian economy into smoking ruins, collapsing entire sectors - the Russian Federation and the CU countries account for 27,1% of exports, 26,2% of imports of goods and services, including almost all exports of machinery and equipment. In other words, Ukraine has no way out - Kiev should in any way push the conservation of a preferential customs regime. At the same time, it is very likely that Azarov’s confidence that this will succeed was based on the tacit support of Brussels, who was rather actively engaged in his own economic blackmail.

For Russia, the requirements of Kiev are unacceptable. Accession to the WTO has already significantly and adversely affected the dynamics of our economy. Actual entry into a free trade zone with the European Union will deal an even more powerful blow on it, which the Kremlin cannot afford. Losses on the Ukrainian market will hardly frighten Russia: interaction with it is only 5,2% of exports and 5,7% of imports. At the same time, the Ukrainian economy exists largely due to the supply of Russian fuel and raw materials, and the country is also unable to refuse a significant part of high-tech Russian exports - thus, having frozen the "nuclear" import from the Russian Federation, Kiev will punish itself. In other words, the price of the issue, even in the case of a full-fledged trade war, is only less than 2% of exports. At the same time, a significant part of it will be compensated on the domestic market - thus, the decline in the share of Ukrainian steel will be very beneficial to the recent stagnation due to a decrease in demand in the foreign markets of the Russian metallurgy. Neighborhood has not been anything particularly interesting or technologically critical either.

For Minsk, the situation is much more ambiguous. Ukraine accounts for about 10% of Belarusian exports and 4,4% of imports, the Ukrainian market is interesting for Belarus and a pronounced positive trade balance with Kiev. At the same time, in case of a separate non-compliance with agreements on customs duties, Belarus could earn on more or less straightforward re-export of Ukrainian goods to the Russian market (this cannot be done legally, but for Minsk such exercises are, alas, common practice). At the same time, the Belarusian economy, with its totally controlled business, is fully capable of defending itself against the influx of European goods and without tariff barriers.

On the other hand, Belarus depends on trade with Russia and actual Russian subsidies absolutely totally. At the same time, in essence, the Belarusian reserve of socialism kept afloat at the expense of a simple operation - to receive crude oil from the Russian Federation at Russian domestic prices, to process at the oil refineries remaining from the USSR, to resell (mainly to Europe). The second sector of the Belarusian industry, which is competitive outside the CIS, is the production of fertilizers, which is largely dependent on cheap Russian gas. Further, the Belarusian industry and agriculture are fully capable of claiming part of the Ukrainian share of the Russian market. As a result, the tactical "union" between Kiev and Minsk pursued the same tactical goal - to return 4 billion of re-export revenues. And Lukashenko achieved this goal.

As for Kazakhstan, it is isolated between Russia, increasingly friendly with China and unstable in the future Central Asia, also has no alternatives to rapprochement with Moscow. Nevertheless, the risk that the Eurasian integration process will go with increasing obstacles and freeze for a long time is still there, and not a small one. Firstly - and this is a standard situation, well known from the experience of European integration - the processes of rapprochement are frozen for a long time by economic crises. Thus, the formation of a "single European space", quite vigorous in 50-x - the beginning of 70-x, was interrupted by the crisis of 1970-x - and, moreover, largely rolled back. Partners are too inclined to shift the blame for their own difficulties on each other. Secondly, the rate of regional integration is inevitably influenced by the type of integrable economies - more precisely, the role and place in them of agrarian and raw materials exports to developed countries. In this sense, the example of Latin America is indicative. It would seem that the prerequisites for creating a powerful regional association are obvious (the actual absence of pronounced cultural and language barriers even between Brazil and Hispanic countries, the need to achieve a consolidated position in relations with the United States, etc.). It is not surprising, therefore, that the process of Latin American integration was launched already in 1958, only seven years later than European, and at first it was very active. So, within the framework of LAST (10 of the countries of South America plus Mexico) trade and capital flows were significantly liberalized, coordination in the production and currency spheres was planned. However, then the process “hung” along with the pace of industrialization of the region - and resumed only in 1990-s with the emergence of the Mercosur unification led by Brazil. At the same time, Mexico was lost forever for regional integration, having entered into the NAFTA bloc led by the US (now the country is plunged into an endless drug war). Further, Mercosur himself nearly collapsed in the "zero" - the allies were too actively entering into separate agreements with the proposed alternative project of the ALCA Washington, despite its obviously colonial overtones. In essence, the union saved only two factors - the general bankruptcy of American foreign policy under Bush Jr. and, as the most fundamental factor, the industrialization of Brazil.

Meanwhile, the countries of the post-Soviet space interact economically with the outside world too in a Latin American way. The predominance of raw materials in the export of Russia and Kazakhstan is well known; The actual raw material nature of the “external” exports of Belarus was mentioned above. In Ukraine, things are no better - the three pillars of its current economy are metallurgy, in exports of which the share of somewhat complex products is decreasing, chemistry, in exports of which the simplest products totally prevail, and agriculture. At the same time, if the Russian Federation and Kazakhstan, although too slowly, re-industrialize, and Belarus is stagnating, then Ukraine is increasingly moving to Latin America 1960's (also known as Moldova).

In general, it is obvious that the process of reintegration of the post-Soviet space will be difficult to go on - meanwhile, this is the only chance to speed up the process of re-industrialization. Ukraine may well share the fate of Mexico.
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  1. Same lech
    Same lech 31 October 2013 11: 47
    +7
    The bumbling of the Ukrainian leadership from the abyss into the swamp and back was already fed up with the order.
    For me, let them rather jump in any direction, at least some benefit will be from them.
    1. seller trucks
      seller trucks 31 October 2013 11: 54
      14
      Quote: The same LYOKHA
      The bumbling of the Ukrainian leadership from the abyss into the swamp and back was already fed up with the order.


      all sailed up to shy:

      October 29 2013
      The Customs Union is preparing to increase rates of duties on Ukrainian products after the conclusion of an agreement on the association of Ukraine with the European Union. The inevitability of such a revision is evidenced by the latest decision of the Eurasian Economic Commission (EEC), as well as harsh statements by the Russian president and the Foreign Ministry. Ukrainian officials assure that such a revision is contrary to WTO rules, but Ukraine can challenge the conflicting norm only in the CIS economic arbitration.


      http://www.kommersant.ua/doc/2330833
      1. GELEZNII_KAPUT
        GELEZNII_KAPUT 31 October 2013 13: 01
        0
        It is necessary to make sure that their export to the CU remains at the same level, and the amount of goods that they will have in surplus, when the Europeans begin to kick them out of their own market, let them stick their bearings to where! And then it will be explicit and complete defeat of homopindo in the eyes of ordinary Ukrainians !!! bully
        1. Luna
          Luna 31 October 2013 16: 03
          +6
          That is, leave them a PREFERRED mode of supply?

          Azarov and Yanukovych applaud you and shout "Bravo!"
          1. GELEZNII_KAPUT
            GELEZNII_KAPUT 31 October 2013 16: 13
            +1
            I think that this will be enough for a start, but to immediately break off economic ties, this is not only costly for Ukraine, but also for Russia.
      2. seller trucks
        seller trucks 31 October 2013 17: 15
        +5
        some more news:

        The Ministry of Revenue and Duties of Ukraine appealed to the Federal Customs Service (FCS) of Russia with a request to clarify the situation that arose on the Ukrainian-Russian border, where a large number of trucks had accumulated due to
        changes in Russia rules for the transport of goods.
        On Thursday, October 31, the press service of the Ministry of Revenue reported.


        Ignorance of the law is not an excuse

        The Russian Federal Veterinary and Phytosanitary Surveillance Service (Rosselkhoznadzor) has introduced temporary restrictions on the supply of products from two Ukrainian meat processing enterprises - PKP Priluki-Agropererabotka and Tavr-Plus. The press service of the Rosselkhoznadzor announced this on Wednesday, 30 October.



        Representatives of the Ministry of Economic Development and Trade of Ukraine raised at the meeting of the WTO Committee on Technical Barriers to Trade the issue of the ban by the Russian Federation of the importation of Roshen confectionery products. This was reported by the press service of the Ministry of Economic Development.


        how long the disassembly may take, most likely this Roshen will no longer be
        1. zmey_gadukin
          zmey_gadukin 1 November 2013 11: 12
          0
          Quote: seller trucks
          most likely this "Roshen" will no longer be

          do not flatter yourself)
          1. seller trucks
            seller trucks 1 November 2013 12: 18
            0
            yes to me, about birds, firstly, I don’t like sweets, secondly, I’ve boycotted Ukrainian products for many years, in principle, thirdly, I’m against the Jewish mafia.
            1. zmey_gadukin
              zmey_gadukin 1 November 2013 20: 57
              0
              Quote: seller trucks
              secondly, for many years, boycotting Ukrainian products in principle

              Yes? Do you know that she is Ukrainian?

              Quote: seller trucks
              thirdly, I am against the Jewish mafia.

              Poroshenko - a Jew? oooooh
        2. zmey_gadukin
          zmey_gadukin 1 November 2013 11: 13
          +1
          Quote: seller trucks
          from two Ukrainian meat processing enterprises - PKP Priluki-Agropererabotka and Taur-Plus

          Yes, of course ... Brazilian and American beef and pork are better sold on the Russian market)))
  2. Migari
    Migari 31 October 2013 11: 54
    15
    As long as they can talk here, they just want to sit in the same chair and that they would all have discounts, but more freebies. Already got one gas, like autumn is so foolish. Debt payment is red.
  3. The comment was deleted.
  4. 787nkx
    787nkx 31 October 2013 12: 06
    +1
    I would like to understand what exactly will change.
    For them, for us.
    Some general words, in the EU it will be bad for them, but in the CU it’s good.
    What exactly will be promoted, prohibited, closed, etc.?
    Does anyone have a more detailed info?
    So far, I understand only some special economic zone will suffer, where everything is traded at all without duties and clearance. Where this zone is not clear.
    How will this association pour out for us? Is it worth it to resist this?
    As far as I know, Ukraine is the fifth largest importer of our goods.
    1. seller trucks
      seller trucks 31 October 2013 12: 23
      +1
      Quote: 787nkx
      I would like to understand what exactly will change.


      for us, in principle, nothing, there will be a list of goods spoiled for import into the vehicle and they will not go anywhere, for them it will be a favor. But for them a full star: agricultural products, dishes, foodstuffs, sweets can be buried in the ground, and the remaining enterprises can be closed, for example, it will hit hard on the automotive industry, the aircraft industry, car building and much more.

      what I regret, "Massandra" and "Novy Svet" will not be in stores, I liked them a lot. Wine producers in Ukraine are very concerned about the signing of the association, for them it will be the end, they will stir up cheap swill from powdered raw materials "wine napiy".
      1. Mhpv
        Mhpv 31 October 2013 13: 07
        +5
        Quote: seller trucks
        what I regret, "Massandra" and "New World" will not be in stores, I really liked them

        + + + + + good
        Cool wine! Although it costs twice as much as in the Crimea.
        1. seller trucks
          seller trucks 31 October 2013 13: 24
          0
          Quote: mhpv
          Cool wine! Although it costs twice as much as in the Crimea.


          wine for an amateur, not everyone understands in dessert and fortified wines, this is a whole culture of drinking, I've moved away from dessert wines, I don't like sweets, Madera and Sherry are, yes, really sharp, I make exceptions for ports, "Red Crimean" and "Yuzhnoberezhny" with mineral water badyazhu, well, and crackers "Cabernet" or "Aligote", in the evening in a gazebo, with a lady, oh, babble.
    2. Vadivak
      Vadivak 31 October 2013 12: 55
      +9
      Quote: 787nkx
      , in the EU it will be bad for them, but in the CU it’s good.


      And what the hell difference? For example, our leaders in the WTO pulled us in, and prices climbed and climb, it turns out they didn’t drag them in for citizens, but for oil suppliers, now they don’t pay all the fees.
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 31 October 2013 13: 08
        +6
        Quote: Vadivak
        and prices climbed and climbed,

        Quote: Vadivak
        , and for oil suppliers, now they don’t pay a fee for the hillock.

        And why are gas prices rising in Russia? Who knows and understands this riddle of the century ???
        1. Tersky
          Tersky 31 October 2013 13: 17
          +3
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          And why are gas prices rising in Russia? Who knows and understands this riddle of the century ???
          Hi Sasha! Because the "appetite" of "Rosneft", "Lukoil", etc. is growing. It is true that the oligarchs manage them.
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 31 October 2013 13: 20
            +3
            Quote: Tersky
            . Verennie at the oligarchs by their managers.

            Hello Vit! Ha, but is Rosneft not a state-owned company ??? And why the state-owned company has already been convicted three times in price collusion with private companies.
            1. zmey_gadukin
              zmey_gadukin 1 November 2013 11: 16
              0
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              Is Rosneft not a state-owned company ??? And why the state-owned company has already been convicted three times in price collusion with private companies.

              Romanov, this is why (probably) the Ukrainian oligarchs do not want to get involved with the largest private-state company in Russia - the Presidential Administration of the Russian Federation.
              I’m joking of course ... but have something to think about, don’t you?
        2. Mhpv
          Mhpv 31 October 2013 13: 27
          +4
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          And why are gas prices rising in Russia? Who knows and understands this riddle of the century ???

          The New Year is approaching and, accordingly, corporate parties, it is necessary to pay bonuses to employees at the end of the year, interest on stocks, etc. laughing
          1. Walker1975
            Walker1975 31 October 2013 15: 04
            +1
            And also invite stars to corporate parties of energy companies.
        3. EtickayaSila
          EtickayaSila 31 October 2013 14: 10
          15
          What is mysterious here? Russia is a source of enrichment for a handful of oligarchs who use Russian power to stuff their own pockets and strip people. The oligarchs profitable - the Kremlin under the visor - the price is rising. Everything is simple.
          1. In the book
            In the book 31 October 2013 18: 20
            +4
            Quote: EtickayaSila
            Russia is a source of enrichment for a handful of oligarchs who use Russian power to stuff their own pockets and strip people.

            The same is in Ukraine.
        4. Vadivak
          Vadivak 31 October 2013 14: 14
          +7
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          And why in Russia gas prices are rising? Who knows and understands this riddle of the century ???


          Sasha, let's start with the fact that this is not gasoline, but donkey urine. And most importantly, the greed of those who sell it to her. How else to explain that in the oil-producing country that which is made from oil is more expensive than in the consumer country of the same America, China and Canada
          1. Kirzhak
            Kirzhak 31 October 2013 18: 01
            +2
            Why are gasoline more expensive than in America? A few years ago, a newspaper popularly explained why Russians would NEVER drive cheap gasoline. The bottom line is: the construction of a modern refinery will cost about $ 2-2,5 billion. With all its innovations (many times deeper oil refining, lower energy intensity, few staff, etc.) and marginal margins (otherwise the FAS will gobble up), this gasoline at gas stations would cost no more than 7-8 rubles (at that time the 95th cost about 23 rubles) In short: this factory will beat off the private business just by the time oil runs out on Earth :) And even more so for the State not profitable: either take an excise tax of 8 rubles, or 23.
        5. Walker1975
          Walker1975 31 October 2013 15: 03
          +1
          By the way, what is the price of gas in Russia, say 95? If possible, in dollars? In Ukraine, somewhere around 1.35 per liter.
          1. askort154
            askort154 31 October 2013 16: 20
            +2
            In Tyumen (the oil capital) 95 = 1,1 dollars.
            1. cashpoint
              cashpoint 1 November 2013 08: 26
              0
              In Ukraine, the transport fee is also included in the cost of fuel. Those. motorists do not pay the transport fee, it is already in the cost of fuel, which is basically true, whoever drives more and accordingly puts a strain on the infrastructure pays more for the transport fee through greater fuel consumption. How much do transport fees pay in Russia?
          2. Kasym
            Kasym 31 October 2013 20: 55
            +2
            In Alma-Ata Ai-95 0.883 dollars. per liter
        6. In the book
          In the book 31 October 2013 18: 20
          0
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          And why are gas prices rising in Russia? Who knows and understands this riddle of the century ???

          Do you still not know? So, Ukraine is to blame wink
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 31 October 2013 18: 27
            +3
            Quote: Libr
            So, Ukraine is to blame

            We have no habit of blaming others for our troubles.
        7. SAG
          SAG 1 November 2013 03: 09
          0
          Yes, everything is elementary ... imagine that the price of oil and oil products in Russia is 2 cuts, for example, lower than the export price. Do you think there are dealers in our country who will buy at the domestic price and sell over the hill at the market price (taking a solid piece from the state), as their own goods ?!
          For 15 years Ukraine has been making money for such bread by such schemes ... hi
      2. true love
        true love 31 October 2013 18: 12
        +3
        But was there a universal vote for Russia's entry into the WTO? I probably missed ... No, I forgot to veto!
      3. UmaR
        UmaR 31 October 2013 22: 27
        +1
        I agree with you, otherwise they said it was very profitable, the prices for goods will be low and all that, but in reality everything is unfortunately on the turnover.
    3. Walker1975
      Walker1975 31 October 2013 13: 07
      +3
      I don’t understand much either. They’re scary: a stream of cheap European goods will flood into Russia. Is it really bad? So these goods are now more expensive for a simple Russian? It can be argued that these cheap goods will compete with Russian ones. Do all goods from Europe have analogues in Russia? Can they compete with cheap Chinese goods? Why is this bad for Russia? And if the Russians want to support a specific Russian manufacturer, then you can enter duties specifically for this group of goods.
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 31 October 2013 13: 23
        +4
        Quote: Walker1975
        Can they compete with cheap Chinese goods?

        Yes, I beg you, what cheap Chinese goods. On my border with China, a simple Chinese T-shirt costs 4 times more than a Chinese T-shirt in Israel. Where are China and where is Israel, but in Israel, a T-shirt costs 50 rubles with our money, while in our country it costs 200 rubles. Although the pancake shuttle business is muddy laughing
        1. Walker1975
          Walker1975 31 October 2013 15: 00
          +1
          Then explain: how do you have such prices for Chinese goods and who is profiting from it? Maybe these people are against "cheap European goods" that this will cover their business. But what have the Russians got to do with it?
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 31 October 2013 15: 41
            0
            Quote: Walker1975
            Maybe these people are against "cheap European goods" that it will cover their business

            These people spit on cheap European goods. Cheap European goods are such a brand for ordinary people. As long as it reaches the end consumer in Russia, cheap European goods will cost two more than the Chinese. Although it is all made in China. It's like a divorce. You go to the boutique and buy the same jeans that are on the market, but twice as expensive laughing
      2. bddrus
        bddrus 31 October 2013 13: 43
        0
        WTO duties nizya
      3. GDP
        GDP 31 October 2013 13: 51
        15
        1 - European goods will be squeezed out by ours both in Ukraine and in Russia. Neither your nor our products in their vast majority are European competitors.
        2 - part of imports from Europe to Russia and back will go through the Russian-Ukrainian borders, according to a simplified, preferential scheme. Neither our businessmen nor yours will miss the opportunity to save, we (the state) will simply lose money ...
        3 - We don’t like that the brotherly people of integration with Russia prefer the West, which we don’t spit about, our political opponent and competitor and potential enemy. We do not want the fraternal people to join their ranks ...

        Conclusion - since the Ukrainian authorities turned their backs on us, it was somehow unethical to reach out to them ... At least until they turned to face us.
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 31 October 2013 14: 25
          +3
          Quote: GDP

          Conclusion - since the Ukrainian authorities turned their backs on us, it was somehow unethical to reach out to them ..

          It is necessary to pass this to Azarov.
        2. Walker1975
          Walker1975 31 October 2013 15: 07
          +3
          Quote: GDP
          1 - European goods will be squeezed out by ours both in Ukraine and in Russia. Neither your nor our products in their vast majority are European competitors.


          Firstly, not all goods are produced in Ukraine and Russia. Secondly, do you not think that without external competition, our oligarchs will NEVER scratch the quality of their products that we use with you, will not begin to modernize the equipment, but will simply gobble up the profit ...
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 31 October 2013 15: 43
            +2
            Quote: Walker1975
            and. Secondly, and you do not think that without external competition, our oligarchs will NEVER scratch themselves to raise the quality of their products

            The oligarchs are sitting on oil and gas, well, metallurgy yet. Everything else is medium and small business, that’s where they will be hit.
          2. The comment was deleted.
          3. GDP
            GDP 31 October 2013 17: 10
            +1
            As for competition, our businessmen, and many officials usually have this approach - if our products are more expensive and worse than imported goods, there is no need to improve them - you just need to buy imported goods that sell better - ruined and deserted factories and plants, reduced export of goods at times compared with the export of raw materials ...
            It will not work in the Russian, and I think in the Ukrainian market, thinking in Western categories ... The real sector of the economy will suffer, which really produce something, and drags the rest of the industry. speculators, of course, will be fine.
            Maybe in the future it will be different, but so far ...
            But again, I will repeat it not only in competition, there are many factors, including interest on customs duties and political aspects ... Politics is also money and resources, promotion of the same bases to our borders, for example, also makes us spend more resources and funds that could be used to improve the economy ...
          4. zmey_gadukin
            zmey_gadukin 1 November 2013 11: 20
            0
            Quote: Walker1975
            NEVER scratch themselves to improve the quality of their products that we use, and will not begin to upgrade equipment

            This is ches.
            They upgrade, from what I know for sure: Styrene (oligarch Firtash), Mironovsky (oligarch Kosyuk), NKMZ (oligarch Skudar), EMSS (oligarch ... hmm ... Rosatom.)
            So SMART people, have long been switching to the most modern systems, are reducing energy costs, because know how to look to the future ...
        3. zub46
          zub46 31 October 2013 18: 40
          +3
          Nevertheless, the Belarusian dad supports the position of Ukraine, the very one - "to sit on two chairs" - in spite of Russia. We can show figs to our monitor here as much as we like, but we cannot change anything. The answer to the question - who is right: Putin or Lukashenko - is not so long to wait. We will see.
          1. m262
            m262 1 November 2013 00: 39
            +2
            Don't touch your dad! He bargained for the abolition of export duties on oil "just business and nothing personal", but in general we are for the CU !!!
            Politics is the art of the possible - it was possible, and he did it!
      4. Alex toll
        Alex toll 31 October 2013 13: 52
        +7
        Well, we'll see! Everything you have is so smart there, and when you butter on bread, smear it from what thread is GMOshny .... vna because yours will not be able to compete with foreign producers on the price offer. and plus - when a foreign product enters the market of the Russian Federation or the CIS, they are hard-dumped and take their place in the market, thereby crowding out the local producer, and here you have problems with money. wages, loss of jobs and again unemployment, and now you are already in exactly the same situation as we are in the early 90s i.e. in the deep ........ Since there is nowhere to work, some sellers are required for these super products from abroad and your engineers, architects will work for a penny to survive. And also - the coolest news for you - Lord Ukrainians! You will not be able to work in Europe on a normal salary and you cannot hold senior posts there, oh yes - most importantly - your children will not graduate from universities - the money you have from sellers will not be enough for such a privilege. And let's not forget, for these devils from the European Union - the Slavs are not people !!!! 1812, 1914-1918, 1941-1945 - you completely forgot everything - it’s all to us and YOU - your friends came to cut people out and dilute our Slavic blood, but now you stupidly surrendered yourself to the occupiers, not military, but economic. .....

        Remember who you are Slavs !!!

        I ask you Europeans you are our Walker1975 answer! I want to hear it !!!!

        To the barrier)))))
        1. In the book
          In the book 31 October 2013 18: 26
          +1
          Quote: Alex Toll
          oh yes - the main thing - your children will not graduate from universities - the money from your sellers will not be enough for such a privilege.

          A friend’s daughter, having graduated from the 4th year of the Dnepropetrovsk Construction Academy this year, entered a similar academy in Poland, tuition is free, payment is only for accommodation in a hostel that cannot be compared with ours. My daughter is studying in Kiev in the 4th year, in a hostel in a room of 5 people, despite the fact that in the early 80s, our students lived in rooms of 2, maximum 3 people.
          1. Egoza
            Egoza 31 October 2013 19: 37
            +2
            Quote: Libr
            at the beginning of the 80's, our students lived in 2 rooms, with a maximum of 3 people.

            Then the USSR was. Therefore, the difference.
            Quote: Libr
            A friend’s daughter, having graduated from the 4 course of the Dnepropetrovsk Construction Academy this year, entered a similar academy in Poland, training is free,

            So well done! Hit the student exchange. There are such agreements between countries.
            1. morpex
              morpex 1 November 2013 00: 49
              0
              [quote = Libr] [quote = Alex Toll] oh yes - the main thing is that your children will not graduate from universities there - you don’t have enough salespeople for such a privilege. [/ quote]
              A friend’s daughter, having graduated from the 4 course of the Dnepropetrovsk Construction Academy this year, entered a similar academy in Poland, training is free.

              [quote = Fidget] So well done! Hit the student exchange. There are such agreements between countries. [/ Quote]
              The exchange has nothing to do with it. My friend entered the Prague University on the Internet. I successfully completed it. Education is free. These are not fairy tales. By the way, paid tuition at Ukrainian universities is several times more expensive than in Western universities, and only majors study at prestigious universities in Ukraine, to a mere mortal, the road is closed there. There is not enough money ...
          2. zmey_gadukin
            zmey_gadukin 1 November 2013 11: 30
            0
            Quote: Libr
            there are 5 people in a dormitory in a room, despite the fact that in the early 80s, students lived in rooms of 2, maximum 3 people.

            In Donetsk, and now so, 2 + 3 = block with SU and shower.
      5. Vadivak
        Vadivak 31 October 2013 14: 35
        +3
        Quote: Walker1975
        They’re scary: a stream of cheap European goods will flood into Russia.


        And why is it getting cheaper that sellers have changed? The product is more likely to rot, but sellers will not lower the price.
        1. The comment was deleted.
      6. roial
        roial 31 October 2013 15: 32
        +3
        And on the brush
        cheap european goods
        I would like to ask where these are produced ??
        Being behind the hill I didn’t notice that the prices for goods there are lower than in Ukraine.
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 31 October 2013 15: 44
          +1
          Quote: roial
          Being behind the hill I didn’t notice that the prices for goods there are lower than in Ukraine.

          Hmm, I ran to the boutiques
        2. morpex
          morpex 1 November 2013 00: 57
          0
          Quote: roial
          Being behind the hill I didn’t notice that the prices for goods there are lower than in Ukraine.

          What "hillock" and when were you? I noticed. A simple example. Chinese football boots that can withstand a maximum of two or three games cost about 400-450 UAH. In the Czech Republic, real "Puma 18 euros = 200 UAH. The whole list I will not announce it. Do you feel the difference? And do not give me the price of vodka and cigarettes as a counterweight.
      7. true love
        true love 31 October 2013 18: 17
        +1
        This is not economics, this is all "politics". What does the price of imported goods have to do with it? Power is "trying" to stay in power and that's all business!
      8. m262
        m262 1 November 2013 00: 24
        +1
        I don’t know if it was the topic, but all the time I was struck by persistence in protecting and supporting the Russian automobile industry:
        Since the 70s they have been "blathering" Zhiguli in different bodies, they have not been developing ANYTHING and at the same time shouting that this is a national treasure, recent news: in connection with the introduction of the utilization fee, the VAZ plant will receive a subsidy from the state.
        Explain to me please: as a result, this fee is paid by the buyer, what for give money to the manufacturer? As a result, the automotive industry, which is protected from competition, is not developing, but why, they will buy it anyway!
        A couple of years ago, they made an "e-mobile" - a modular scheme, a polymer body in general, a high-quality race in front of a strangled
        (no, we have a "sacred cow" VAZ 6th model and its derivatives: Grands, Kalina, etc.). But the domestic manufacturer is protected !!!
        Healthy competition has always led the industry out of stagnation and, ultimately, has benefited the economy and the consumer.
        1. Russ69
          Russ69 1 November 2013 00: 45
          0
          Quote: m262
          I don’t know if it was the topic, but all the time I was struck by persistence in protecting and supporting the Russian automobile industry:
          It is necessary, if it is banged, then this is the loss of a million jobs, if with allies ..
          1. m262
            m262 1 November 2013 01: 36
            0
            Quote: Russ69
            It is necessary, if it is banged, then this is the loss of a million jobs, if with allies ..


            It is clear, it's a pity only there is no development, at the car dealership I got into the grant: the doors creak, the plastic stinks in the interior "empty", there was a "Chinese" next to it - earth and sky! But 30 years ago, cupolas in the courtyards of houses were fanned with furs.
            It's a shame !!!
    4. nickname 1 and 2
      nickname 1 and 2 31 October 2013 15: 53
      +1
      Quote: 787nkx
      I would like to understand what exactly will change. For them, for us.


      people will be smuggling to trade - that's for sure.

      carry, lucky, drag!

      but as at the state level = so if it is at least strong, we can take affection (in the sense - they will regret it)
      belay Affectionate calf of two queens sucks!
    5. The comment was deleted.
  5. Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 31 October 2013 12: 06
    +3
    The success of the development of the Customs Union largely depends on the predictability of the actions of the political elites of the member states of the Union. Therefore, strict coordination of actions on the most important issues of integration is necessary. Otherwise, it will turn out like in the famous fable about the swan, cancer and pike: And nothing has changed...
    1. roial
      roial 31 October 2013 15: 29
      +2
      Otherwise, it will turn out like in the famous fable about the swan, cancer and pike:

      A pretty good article about TS, though it goes against what the Russian brothers are telling us. I tried to publish it on this site but did not pass the loyalty check laughing

      http://alternate-politics.info/content/tamozhennyi_soyuz_lebedya_raka_i_shchuki
      1. Luna
        Luna 31 October 2013 16: 16
        +3
        Who told you she’s not bad?
        Corresponds to your views, here you are right and write, without tricks.
        author LYUBOMIR (already one name says a lot) Shavalyuk, like an economist, raves about desovetization, he sees Ukraine in the Customs Union as a sickle in Faberge.
  6. Valery Neonov
    Valery Neonov 31 October 2013 12: 06
    0
    The freebie for Ukraine is over, they will live "on the jelly banks by the milk river" ... And Kazakhstan starts checking products from Ukrainian producers:After Russia and Belarus, they decided to take up the problem of the safety of confectionery products manufactured by the Ukrainian company Roshen in Kazakhstan. The sanitary service of this state has begun checking products that are supplied to consumers in the republic. Earlier, the organization Rospotrebsoyuz officially announced that products that are exported from Ukraine do not comply with technical regulations adopted in the territory of the countries of the Customs Union.
    see http://www.easttime.ru/news/kazakhstan/v-kazakhstane-tozhe-zanyalis-proverkoi
    -confet-roshen / 4501
    And sho do-quality above all else. winked
    1. Zymran
      Zymran 31 October 2013 12: 09
      +7
      August article. The inspections ended long ago, and Roshen products were recognized as of high quality.
      1. morpex
        morpex 1 November 2013 01: 11
        0
        Quote: Zymran
        , Roshen products are recognized as high quality.

        Figs there! Yesterday again, something was found! The Onishchenko affair lives and prospers! smile
    2. morpex
      morpex 1 November 2013 01: 09
      0
      Quote: Valery Neonov
      Freebie for Ukraine is over

      What freebies are you talking about in our age of capital? Especially for Ukraine! Gas, oil - we buy at the most expensive price, cars from Russia almost face to face with a Korean, shoes from Moscow are more expensive than Polish. WHERE HALYAVA? Show ine her! What does she look like? winked
  7. Xroft
    Xroft 31 October 2013 12: 11
    +7
    It won’t end in anything good, Georgia also fled to Europe at the time and wanted to Nato ..... Remember how it ended? and there are more Russians in Ukraine, how will Sevastopol react to a NATO base? there was still not enough war with the Slavs ... judging by how the Islamists intensified in the Crimea (they were not even touched there) the real scenario.
    1. vanaheym
      vanaheym 31 October 2013 16: 12
      0
      Quote: Xroft
      Georgia at one time also fled to Europe and wanted to

      Why did you want to? I didn’t seem to have heard that the Georgians wanted to join the Customs Union as one. As they wanted, so they want.
      1. Xroft
        Xroft 31 October 2013 19: 30
        +1
        After all the well-known events, they will not be in NATO, not in the European Union. You can always want wink I do not think that Ukraine wants to repeat the fate of Georgia in 2008 .....
    2. In the book
      In the book 31 October 2013 18: 31
      +2
      Quote: Xroft
      fishing by how Islamists intensified in Crimea

      Guys, look what’s going on in non-Muslim Moscow
      1. Xroft
        Xroft 31 October 2013 19: 25
        +4
        Do not confuse Muslims and Islamists. Hizb ut tahrir the banned radical party openly acts in the Crimea (this is what is only visible, but I generally keep silent about illegal alnursa cells). We don’t have that, Islam is the same religion and has equal rights in secular state. The question is that illiterate people from the Caucasus / Central Asia make a negative image of Islam and people who do not have religions (those who post such photos) equate everyone almost to terrorists . Learn to understand the difference .....
        1. morpex
          morpex 1 November 2013 01: 13
          0
          Quote: Xroft
          Do not confuse Muslims and Islamists.

          And for me, so radish horseradish is not sweeter ....
  8. Peaceful military
    Peaceful military 31 October 2013 12: 32
    +6
    It is clear that there is no alternative to reintegration, but, unfortunately, the "parade of sovereignty" started by the liberals and compradors has not yet ended.
  9. The comment was deleted.
  10. New Russia
    New Russia 31 October 2013 12: 35
    +4
    "At the same time, in fact, the Belarusian socialism reserve kept afloat due to a simple operation - to receive crude oil from the Russian Federation at domestic Russian prices, to process it at the oil refineries left over from the USSR"

    The depth of oil refining in Belarus is higher than in Russia, because there are no rootless oligarchs who spend on yachts, where they spend where necessary.

    “This is arrogance even by the standards of Ukrainian foreign policy, the authors of which invariably and by default regard the eastern neighbor as a kind of quasi-colonial territory and a source of free resources. It is all the more amazing that this position was fully understood by the official Minsk. Belarus made it clear in almost plain text that it wasn’t will make changes to its own customs regime with Ukraine. At the same time, a little earlier, it practically sabotaged the sanctions against Ukrainian and Lithuanian products. "

    Is the Russian Federation not a quasi-colonial territory?) Minsk and the Old Man correctly understood the situation and act as it should. The economic situation, the problem of migration through the efforts of the liberal fascists will only get worse; one and a half, two years are left before the change of power. Hence the statement by Lukashenko on the transfer to him of Koenigsberg and the region, assistance in harvesting in central Russia.
    "Old Man sabotages the RF sanctions" How dare you stutter at all, filthy rootless, that Belarus owes you ??? You are a gang of oligakhs who tried to carry out a raider seizure of BelKaliya, threatened with sanctions for the arrest of the Caucasian geek Kerimov. Daddy doesn't owe you anything, a liberal to the fascists, he openly shows that during the turmoil in Russia he will take everything under his control.
    1. xan
      xan 31 October 2013 13: 10
      -1
      Old Man is a collective farmer and a sharpie free of talent. All his attempts are ridiculous and his ideology is clear - to squeeze more from Russia for its loyalty.
      Why are such hit-allies?
      1. New Russia
        New Russia 31 October 2013 13: 23
        -7
        He would have such a collective farmer and a sharpie, for starters.
        Why do we need such allies. What kind? Belarusian people? And to whom should we? Russian or Russophobian authorities?) The fact that the Old Man is too independent at a given time is good and not bad, unless of course you wish Belarus the fate of Russia.
      2. vitantin
        vitantin 31 October 2013 20: 20
        +6
        In Belarus, now with great noise there is an approval, proposed by Lukashenko, of a tax of $ 100 on the import of consumer goods purchased in the European Union. So that the currency does not go away, for which he tears his throat at every meeting. And the author says that the dad is ready to open the EEC, through Ukraine, the road to the customs union. Yes, he would have stood in the way, even if Russia had reached an agreement with Ukraine. And at the expense of the cunning, I will say this, I am not a supporter of him, but if a "collective farm and talent-free sharper" is able to squeeze out of Russia, then who rules you ...
      3. m262
        m262 1 November 2013 00: 51
        +1
        But you have an honest and educated Medvedev and his friend, intellectual Serdyukov,
        with us thieves are even in uniform in prison, and you?
        Do you have other allies ???
        Belarus has never betrayed Russia (business does not count) !!! am
        Oh sorry, I forgot: Chubais, Gaidar, Yavlinsky, Luzhkov- to list further the elite which has a place in Siberia?
        They squeezed him out! Are you anyone Karimov or Deripaska ???
    2. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 31 October 2013 13: 12
      +4
      Quote: New Russia
      It is all the more striking that this position was fully understood by the official Minsk. Belarus made it clear in almost plain text that it would not amend its own customs regime with Ukraine. At the same time, a little earlier, she practically sabotaged the sanctions against Ukrainian and Lithuanian products. "

      Zaika, you’ve already been late, there is a link at the top, read it at your leisure. Lukashenko also speaks a lot, but he is fulfilling joint agreements. Belarus covers the bench too. The market is one and Lukashenko will not be able to do as he likes. And he perfectly understands that he does not need goods from the EU in FIGs.
      1. New Russia
        New Russia 31 October 2013 13: 20
        0
        This is not my quote)
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Lukashenko also speaks a lot, but he is fulfilling joint agreements.

        Of course it does) The fact that it is profitable for it to do. For example, Ossetia does not recognize oligarchs does not allow.
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 31 October 2013 13: 34
          +7
          Quote: New Russia
          . For example, Ossetia does not recognize oligarchs does not allow.

          I’m not talking about that, Lukashenko himself will be happy to close access to goods, it’s very profitable for his economy. Nothing personal, only the interests of Belarus hi
          1. Vadivak
            Vadivak 31 October 2013 14: 38
            +3
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            Nothing personal, only the interests of Belarus


            We also have nothing personal, only the interests of Gazprom.
            1. New Russia
              New Russia 31 October 2013 15: 17
              -6
              What difference does it speak for itself? Some have Belarus, while others have an uncontrollable semi-private structure mired in corruption, which does not care about the country)
            2. In the book
              In the book 31 October 2013 18: 33
              0
              Quote: Vadivak
              We also have nothing personal, only the interests of Gazprom.

              good
          2. Luna
            Luna 31 October 2013 16: 20
            +3
            Yes, yes, the main thing is the interests of Belarus.

            At the beginning of October, 78 restrictive measures were applied to Russian goods from 17 countries of the world, it follows from monitoring by the Russian Ministry of Economic Development, ITAR-TASS reports.
            The maximum number of restrictive measures is valid in the EU, Ukraine, USA and Belarus.


            But give Russian oil without restrictions.
    3. regsSSSR
      regsSSSR 31 October 2013 23: 02
      +2
      New Russia
      "At the same time, in fact, the Belarusian socialism reserve kept afloat due to a simple operation - to receive crude oil from the Russian Federation at domestic Russian prices, to process it at the oil refineries left over from the USSR"


      no later than yesterday in this reserve) celebrated the 90th anniversary of the Belarusian Komsomol)
      The Leninist Communist Youth League of Belarus was created on September 24, 1920. Today, after 90 years, the Belarusian Republican Youth Union has continued the history of this glorious organization.

      and in Russia, among the youth, many already don’t even remember what the mark is for the organization))

      But those are the largest refineries! I only know 2 there is the Mozyr Oil Refinery and Naftan OJSC, which is the city-forming enterprise of the city of Novopolotsk (a very beautiful young city with a population of about 100 and very wide avenues! located 000 km from the northern border with the Russian Federation)
      I was at the bottom of the city by chance after a gorgeous salute I heard a phrase.
      - a lot of money fell into salute
      -yes they probably sold naphthan to Russia here and they walk))
      Well this is such a joke)) but just do things like this

      Belarus is ready to exchange its oil refineries for the possibility of extracting raw materials in Russia

      Refinery in exchange for production. President of Belarus Alexander Lukashenko said that Russian companies may be allowed to privatize oil refineries. This will be done if Belarusians are given the opportunity to extract oil and gas from Russian fields.

      Read more: http://eng.ruvr.ru/2012_10_16/Belorussija-gotova-pomenjat-svoi-neftepererabativa




      jushhie-zavodi-na-vozmozhnost-dobivat-sire-v-Rossii /
      infa is not new, but since then it seems nothing has changed much. kaenchesko I can and will be mistaken if that correct)
      1. m262
        m262 1 November 2013 01: 16
        +1
        By the way, they make Euro 5 gasoline there! Is it produced in Russia? Our factories modernized while the owners of the Russian factories built their yachts.
        1. regsSSSR
          regsSSSR 1 November 2013 02: 24
          0
          Quote: m262
          By the way, they make Euro 5 gasoline there! Is it produced in Russia? Our factories modernized while the owners of the Russian factories built their yachts.


          Yes, they started recently to produce Lukoil since 2009, it seems to be releasing.
          in Moscow, let the identity too booze the other day
          The metropolitan oil refinery has begun production of Euro-5 diesel fuel and gasoline of an ecological class, the Moscow-24 television channel reports.

          in Russia, in the Leningrad region there is a very large center for oil pipelines (Kirishinefteorgsintez), the city of Kirishi is also a good city by the way, very well-groomed, I have also been to it many times. just do all the cities in one way or another connected with the oil and gas sectors as a whole are feeling pretty good)) but this enterprise is going to switch to Euro 5 only by 2016

          enterprises for design indicators are planned for the current year, said today, February 15, at a press conference, General Director of "KINEF" Vadim Somov. When the full design capacity is reached, the oil refining depth will reach 68%.

          According to Somov, by 2016 the refinery will produce Euro-5 fuel, and from 2017 the oil refining depth will reach 95%.

          about naphthan and yes they produce Euro 5 and Euro 4, but since which year I can’t say exactly)
          Over the past few years, the quality of fuels produced at Naftan has been brought into line with European specifications. Naftan OJSC produces AI-92 and AI-95 gasolines, and also increases the production of the main export product - diesel fuel, which complies with Euro-5 standard.

          in general, they switch over but with a delay of several years if Navtan has been raising the issue of Euro 5 for a long time, then the kinef only goes over, but there are many such plants in Russia that’s why you vouch for everything you have to drip in nete!
  11. Polovec
    Polovec 31 October 2013 12: 35
    13
    In Ukraine, the ruling oligarchy is simply trying to legalize its hard-earned money in the West in such a simple way. They don’t give a damn about Ukraine itself (like ours, too, about Russia). If it weren’t for Yeltsin’s stupidity (Crimea and Donbass), one could look towards Ukraine as well as towards Moldova and Georgia with curiosity.
    Integration is good when export = import. What interesting Ukraine is going to export to Europe? So far only. mostly women ...
    We must unite with equals. Let the poor, but equal. Then there is a chance to get out of poverty together. And the fact that Russia is pulling more on itself in the alliance ... And so is the load and return from it more! All of Europe, without exception, dreams of giving their money for the happiness of Ukraine! fool
    1. vanaheym
      vanaheym 31 October 2013 16: 18
      -1
      Quote: Polovec
      What interesting Ukraine is going to export to Europe? So far only. mostly women ...

      And what does Russia export besides gas? If we talk about women, then there are about the same number of Russian sluts in the EU as Ukrainian, Moldavian or Bulgarian
      1. xan
        xan 31 October 2013 16: 38
        0
        Quote: vanaheym
        And what does Russia export besides gas? If we talk about women, then there are about the same number of Russian sluts in the EU as Ukrainian, Moldavian or Bulgarian

        Brad.
        Yours and here we are plowing.
      2. seller trucks
        seller trucks 31 October 2013 17: 26
        0
        From official data published by the International Organization for Migration, it follows that every 4-th prostitute in Europe is from Ukraine.

        Whatever bordello Pole, Hungarian, German, Turk or Serb goes into, he will definitely meet the beautiful Natasha, a native speaker of Taras Shevchenko and Lesya Ukrainka. Clear business - the Pole or the Serb "language" in understanding speech is of little interest. He is interested in the technique of the tongue, as an organ of the oral cavity.

        Natasha, serving the customer in the best way, will raise the image of their country in the eyes of a foreigner. One more admirer of Ukraine will become more in the world. Forever remember the lustful lover of paid sex the name of the country, whose citizen appeased him. Will advise friends, colleagues.


        http://obozrevatel.com/news/2009/11/18/333816.htm

        I wanted to post on VO, regretted, apparently in vain, the article is called "Country of Whores"
        1. xan
          xan 31 October 2013 22: 29
          +2
          Quote: seller trucks
          I wanted to place on VO, regretted, apparently in vain, the article is called "Country of Whores"

          There are no complaints against Ukrainian women; there are complaints about the authorities.
          I remembered the words of a Kievite read on the Internet, which must be remembered in the event of a mess: you see the Ukrainian politician - do not touch, he is mine!
          Yes, in Ukraine, our fucking!
    2. Luga
      Luga 31 October 2013 16: 52
      +1
      I totally agree. hi
      I will add that Yanukovych has repeatedly demonstrated his political shortsightedness and lack of will since the Orange Revolution. Probably, this can explain such an ambiguous decision for Ukraine as "joining Europe." In my opinion, only Europe itself, which receives a new duty-free market, and the Ukrainian oligarchs, who probably pushed through this decision, will directly benefit from this "entry". In Ukraine, the rich will certainly become richer and the poor poorer.
      Yes, exactly so: myopia and lack of will of power. And, probably, the child’s resentment against Russia is not clear for what.

      "Have you entered Europe?"
      Examining the shoes: "Where?"
  12. Peaceful military
    Peaceful military 31 October 2013 12: 37
    +5
    PS
    Meanwhile, they press on Ukraine from the other side.
    "If Kiev in the next few days does not fulfill the conditions voiced by Europe to pardon Yulia Tymoshenko, the signing of the Association Agreement between Ukraine and the EU will be postponed until 2014. Polish Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski said this" http://rus.delfi.ee/daily/ abroad / esli-ukraina-ne-uspeet-s-pomilovaniem-timoshenk
    o-podpisanie-dogovora-ob-associacii-s-es-ne-sostoitsya.d? id = 67009502
    1. Akim
      Akim 31 October 2013 12: 42
      +5
      Quote: Peaceful military
      "If Kiev in the coming days does not fulfill the conditions voiced by Europe to pardon Yulia Tymoshenko, the signing of the Association Agreement between Ukraine and the EU will be postponed until 2014. This was stated by Polish Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski."

      Well, it is not necessary.! Suchamels set such conditions. This item has always infuriated. Do not sign - Yulu for a bucket! She understands this and agrees to all conditions.
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 31 October 2013 13: 14
        +7
        Quote: Akim
        Well, it is not necessary.! Suchamels set such conditions.

        That’s why it’s still hoarse, Kars believes that this is a proposal, not conditions. This is Russia setting conditions and blackmailing, and the EU is reaching out wassat
        1. Akim
          Akim 31 October 2013 13: 21
          +1
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Kars believes this is an offer, not a condition

          Kars believes that these are conditions (at least as I understand it). But he does not work in the government. Both that and that blackmail. From whatever side it was not advanced.
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 31 October 2013 13: 36
            +2
            Quote: Akim
            Both that and that blackmail.

            Oh, well, at least with you already, some kind of progress.
      2. Egoza
        Egoza 31 October 2013 14: 20
        +2
        Quote: Akim
        Do not sign - Yulu for a bucket! She understands this and agrees to all conditions.

        I don’t agree anymore. She wants not only treatment, but also full rehabilitation, and the closure of all other criminal cases so that she can take part in the elections!
        1. Akim
          Akim 31 October 2013 14: 39
          +2
          Quote: Egoza
          Already disagree

          You are women, you have seven Fridays a week. But her fate will be decided by men.
      3. Xroft
        Xroft 31 October 2013 19: 32
        +2
        This is just the tip of the iceberg ....
  13. shark
    shark 31 October 2013 12: 38
    11
    Nothing prevents us from complicating the life of Ukraine. Besides the principles. What is east of the Ukrainian border is Russia. And only Russia has the right to Russian resources and not Ukraine at all. And it is up to her (and no one else) to decide how much to whom to sell them. so no concessions. The economy of Ukraine will collapse - then it will collapse. So you had to think better before making any decision. We have nothing to do with it. And we don’t have to save and subsidize anyone. seriously talk. he is periodically forgotten ...
    1. self-propelled
      self-propelled 31 October 2013 13: 00
      +1
      I agree, the problems of Ukraine are only its problems (it’s my own fault). but with regards to
      The economy of Ukraine will collapse, then it will collapse
      not so simple. the economy will collapse - a real (if not uncontrollable) mess will begin in Ukraine. But Russia needs it at hand?
      1. seller trucks
        seller trucks 31 October 2013 13: 11
        +2
        Quote: self-propelled
        not so simple. the economy will collapse - a real (if not uncontrollable) mess will begin in Ukraine. But Russia needs it at hand?


        Ukraine, IMHO, the region of frightened idiots, to start a quality treatment, you need a serious shake-up, well, people don’t understand the Russian language or don’t want, this is clearly their problem, they want to experience the rake effect on themselves, we are observing aside.
        1. self-propelled
          self-propelled 31 October 2013 13: 20
          +1
          Quote: seller trucks
          we are watching aside

          I think it will not work to watch on the sidelines ... where do you think the people from Ukraine will go in search of a better life? to "prosperous" Europe? so there and so they do not know what to do with "visitors from nearby regions." Russia is closer, and getting into it is still easier. as a result, another headache for Russia ...
          1. seller trucks
            seller trucks 31 October 2013 13: 39
            +1
            Quote: self-propelled
            I think to watch aside will not work ...


            I don’t remember on which site, I read the phrase of one “Svidomo”, approximately: “finally it will be possible to freely leave for another country and find a good job,” most consider it a springboard to “another life”.
            1. self-propelled
              self-propelled 31 October 2013 13: 59
              +1
              Quote: seller trucks
              I read the phrase of one "Svidomo", approximately: "finally it will be possible to freely leave for another country and find a good job," most consider it a springboard to "another life"

              "Svidomo" in Ukraine nowadays a lot of divorced ... recourse и skilled a worker can always "go to another country and find a good job." But today's youth, brought up on "democratized milk", for the most part will remain in Europe without "good work" - there are enough young specialists of their own.
      2. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 31 October 2013 13: 16
        0
        Quote: self-propelled
        not so simple. the economy will collapse - a real (if not uncontrollable) mess will begin in Ukraine. But Russia needs it at hand?

        Yes, there’s been a mess for 22 years already. Anyway, it won’t be worse anyway. laughing
        1. self-propelled
          self-propelled 31 October 2013 13: 23
          +2
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Yes, there is already a mess for 22 of the year. Anyway, it will not be worse anyway.Worse stupid not where

          Well, do not stand so categorically. at the moment in Ukraine is still more or less normal
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 31 October 2013 13: 37
            +2
            Quote: self-propelled
            at the moment in Ukraine is still more or less normal

            As I understand it, the main word in your post is for now.
            1. self-propelled
              self-propelled 31 October 2013 14: 03
              +1
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              As I understand it, the main word in your post is for now.

              alas and ah ... the ways (and decisions) of the Ukrainian government are inscrutable ... request
    2. Thirsty for wind
      Thirsty for wind 31 October 2013 13: 06
      +7
      Quote: shark
      And once again you should seriously talk with the Old Man. He is periodically forgotten ...

      Just before speaking seriously, thank you in advance.
      Everything is much to serious talk, only Putin nods approvingly at the dad.
      Soon, by the way, they will begin to talk about how Uralkali baryzhyly in the domestic market.
      And then the evil old man stopped the good Jewish looters, here he became impudent, to count him !!!
      1. Luna
        Luna 31 October 2013 16: 26
        +1
        And how soon? Oil was cut off for the 4th quarter, the BPC is bent without Uralkali, and everyone does not begin to tell us how the Old Man saved Russia from looters.
    3. Walker1975
      Walker1975 31 October 2013 13: 13
      +2
      Quote: shark
      And only Russia has the right to Russian resources and not Ukraine at all. And it is up to her (and no one else) to decide how much and to whom they should be sold.


      Here you are right, but there is one thing. Just as the seller has the right to set the price for his products, so the buyer has the right to disagree with this price without buying this product. If you come to the store and a regular office computer will cost a piece of bucks, then you will probably send such a seller and go to another one.
      Well, I remind you that there is a double-edged sword. Yes, Russia can put pressure on other countries at the cost of its gas, but ... Russia itself lives off this gas and if they don’t buy it, then the white fluffy northern animal will come very quickly. And in vain you hope that Russian officials and oligarchs reduce their appetite if the budget is reduced.
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 31 October 2013 13: 26
        +2
        Quote: Walker1975
        Here you are right, but there is one thing. Just as the seller has the right to set the price for his products, so the buyer has the right to disagree with this price without buying this product.

        And where did you see the market, all around there were some snatchers and speculators.
      2. Samsebenaum
        Samsebenaum 31 October 2013 13: 57
        +1
        Walker1975
        Quote: Walker1975
        Russia lives off this gas and if they don’t buy it, the white fluffy northern animal will come very quickly.

        I agree with this conclusion. This is our headache and the most vulnerable spot ...
        A lot of criticism and fair forum users are addressed to our government and the one who is even higher. Everyone knows this, but so far nothing has changed significantly ...
        I have always said, and now I repeat, that Russia does not have a manager-manager. Lucky Belarus. I’m taking off my hat before Old Man, even for one master’s approach ... Is he cunning? And how without it? Have to get out. Otherwise, they will devour them with giblets.
        Ukraine. There’s a political mess. White, red, blue, orange ...
        West, Center, East, South. They rally, scream, fight in their Duma ...
        Boxers climb into power .. I do not understand anything.
        I decided to "score" on them until they come to their senses ...
        The lads will quickly drive Europe crazy, the "old woman" will regret more than once that she contacted.
      3. andrejwz
        andrejwz 31 October 2013 14: 08
        +1
        Quote: Walker1975
        If you come to the store and a regular office computer will cost a piece of bucks, then you will probably send such a seller and go to another one.

        Well, in the case of Ukraine, the buyer grabbed the computer, and instead of paying sends it away. At the same time, he doesn’t forget to add: In a year I’ll come again.
        1. Walker1975
          Walker1975 31 October 2013 15: 11
          -3
          no need ... Ukraine pays for gas for Russia at one of the highest prices, and also provides transit services at the lowest. And this is not counting the base of the Russian Black Sea Fleet for free, from which there is nothing but a headache.
          1. Hudo
            Hudo 31 October 2013 15: 17
            +1
            Quote: Walker1975
            And this is not counting the base of the Black Sea Fleet for a freebie, from which there is nothing but a headache.

            What is a headache? And most importantly, who?

            An "anonymous letter" from Lviv came to the Russian Embassy in Kiev with a bullet and a demand to remove Ch.F. from Crimea. In response, a jar of Vaseline was sent to Lviv, with detailed instructions for processing the anus.
          2. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 31 October 2013 15: 47
            +1
            Quote: Walker1975
            . And this is not counting the base of the Black Sea Fleet for free,

            4 billion bucks a year is a freebie?
            Quote: Walker1975
            also provides transit services at the lowest.

            Yeah, well, very low, you shouldn’t lie, yes laughing
            1. New Russia
              New Russia 31 October 2013 16: 02
              +3
              Don't you notice? You are outraged that he inflated transit prices, although he personally and the rest of the Ukrainians do not decide anything at all, but he is outraged that you pay little for the Black Sea Fleet, although you personally and we all have nothing to do with it) I don’t understand why we all of the idiotic authorities quarrel fraternal peoples, huh)
              1. Walker1975
                Walker1975 31 October 2013 16: 06
                +3
                So I do not understand. Profit from the oligarchs, and we are arguing. Plus
              2. Alexander Romanov
                Alexander Romanov 1 November 2013 06: 26
                0
                Quote: New Russia
                I don’t understand why we all need to quarrel among fraternal peoples because of the idiotic authorities, huh)

                Sweetie, tie with champagne
          3. shark
            shark 31 October 2013 17: 04
            +1
            Black Sea Fleet base is not for free. It's just located in the Russian city. That's the whole secret.
            1. In the book
              In the book 31 October 2013 18: 49
              +1
              Brother, do not be offended. But this city is in a completely different country. Do not start again s.r.a.ch. about the city of Russian sailors. It was not only Russians who died there, but also Ukrainians, Belarusians, during the Great Patriotic War, and Tatars, and Uzbeks, and Georgians, and Ossetians, all who fought for the USSR.
              1. Setrac
                Setrac 1 November 2013 01: 24
                0
                Quote: Libr
                It was not only Russians who died there, but also Ukrainians, Belarusians, during the Great Patriotic War, and Tatars, and Uzbeks, and Georgians, and Ossetians, all who fought for the USSR.

                And before the Great Patriotic War, who died? During the Crimean War, in the 19th and 18th centuries, when the "Ukraine" project was just emerging in the brains of Polish and Austrian leaders.
                Quote: Libr
                Brother, do not be offended. But this city is in a completely different country.

                Peter also stands on lands that for some time belonged to another state.
          4. Egoza
            Egoza 31 October 2013 19: 48
            +1
            Quote: Walker1975
            Ukraine pays for gas for Russia at one of the highest prices,

            Say "Thank you" to your beloved Yulia! After all, we had gas for 50 bucks! Was it bad?
            1. morpex
              morpex 1 November 2013 01: 45
              0
              Quote: Egoza
              Quote: Walker1975
              Ukraine pays for gas for Russia at one of the highest prices,

              Say "Thank you" to your beloved Yulia! After all, we had gas for 50 bucks! Was it bad?

              Well, at that time fuel and lubricants cost 3-5 UAH. And thanks to Julia and even more thanks to the person who signed the contract on the other hand. Interestingly, we will someday find out that Vova promised Julia that she would sign such a bonded contract?
      4. Alex toll
        Alex toll 31 October 2013 15: 19
        +2
        YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND !!!!!!! there will be no other manufacturer of the other - these giants that have a turnover per year more than Ukraine’s GDP will destroy competitors, and you don’t have enough money for competition and product quality and moreover money for resistance - there will be only one - you as a buyer will have to buy how much they will say and swallow with a mockery and a smile or starve.

        I'm just shocked by this ...........

        Are you there an assistant to the president ???? What good is foreign fat for you? ????

        Stake !!!
      5. Selevc
        Selevc 31 October 2013 21: 11
        +1
        Quote: Walker1975
        Russia itself lives off this gas, and if they don’t buy it, the white fluffy northern animal will come very quickly.

        You are not quite right - if Russia doesn’t buy gas, then superprofits will end ... And many in the higher echelons of the Russian government are so used to currency rain ... And without superprofits you can live but you need to save a lot on this - there are excellent examples of such economies in the person of the Scandinavian neighbors ... But they don’t know how to live in Russia - I want to think that they will learn someday ... And so long as the currency river flows - and space plans and the sea knee-deep and mountains on the shoulder ... Although this is a common disease of economies - or rather, elites of the CIS countries live today and tomorrow, as God willing ...
  14. pensioner
    pensioner 31 October 2013 12: 44
    +5
    I ask the question, why does life have to be complicated? It, on the contrary, should be done easier, more joyful.
    And free? what No. Native American hut to you ...
    tongue
  15. Grbear
    Grbear 31 October 2013 12: 51
    +5
    Here is the POLICY - her mother ...
    Another time you think: "If only someone attacked the CIS, like the Pakistani-Romanian alliance." We would have united at once. And so, they will tear in pieces.
    1. alone
      alone 31 October 2013 20: 56
      +2
      )) I never understood the benefits of economic unions. Here political-military alliances are understandable. There are common opponents from several countries, they took and created an alliance in order to repulse their opponent (s). And in the economy everyone has their own interests. It is never possible that something that is beneficial to me may be beneficial to the other. sometimes even during bilateral negotiations, the parties discuss these or those problems for months to find common interests. now imagine that 10 countries are trying to solve one problem. while these 10 will find a solution that satisfies all, probably already retire)) wassat
  16. sys-1985
    sys-1985 31 October 2013 13: 04
    +1
    We won’t get anywhere from each other .. (cute scolding, just amuse)
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 31 October 2013 13: 17
      +9
      Quote: sys-1985
      (cute scolding, just amuse)

      In the coffin, I saw so cute. Where they are brought and they themselves do not know.
      The strangest thing is that the picture from the Ukrainian site
      1. seller trucks
        seller trucks 31 October 2013 13: 31
        +5
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        The strangest thing is that the picture from the Ukrainian site


        (+) brilliantly, especially the "golden calf" pleased good , and the fact that they ..... sy and so it is clear.
        1. seller trucks
          seller trucks 31 October 2013 14: 03
          +7
          PS. I remembered another moment here, the price of European integration:

          The authorities of Ukraine, as part of the European integration process, agreed to resettle all the Roma from the EU countries. The corresponding decree was signed by Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych.

          On the official website of the President of Ukraine, Decree No. 201 of April 8 of April 2013 is published. Here is the full text of the document.


          as I understand now, the pastors of Ukraine will sound "ay-na-not-na-na-na-na"
          1. Xroft
            Xroft 31 October 2013 19: 34
            0
            iceberg continuation so to speak ....
      2. Bort radist
        Bort radist 31 October 2013 14: 21
        +4
        The Chinese have organized a picket in support of Ukraine.
        They are asked - what do you have in common ?, and they answer. And we are the same, on the one hand yellow, and on the other blue. an anecdote which, unfortunately, becomes true.
      3. morpex
        morpex 1 November 2013 01: 50
        0
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        In the coffin, I saw so cute.

        Thank you brother for a kind word! After such wishes, I want to conclude an alliance with the devil himself than with such "well-wishers" as you ...
  17. Dwarfik
    Dwarfik 31 October 2013 13: 10
    +1
    It didn’t work out to be friends against a bad RF, those who shout too much about the independence - feel very warm!
  18. MG42
    MG42 31 October 2013 13: 19
    +3
    The Ukrainian leadership does not understand that there is no "fat"? as he says fairy d ** Azaroff character in the photo in the topic to move to the EU, we need money for a transition period which is not there, the gold reserves of Ukraine decreased over several. years, almost 2 times and strive for $ 20 billion, which will naturally affect the stability of the hryvnia in the near future .. Mudis ag-once again lowered the rating of Ukraine ..
    And the IMF loan on such conditions that the last nail in the lid of the coffin of the Ukrainian people, 90% will not be able to pay at 100% European tariffs
    There are also rumors that with the EU + Ukraine association = this is a subtle game aimed at trade with the Russian Federation aimed at lowering gas prices at the last moment and rapprochement with the CU, but such a "flip" will very painfully hit Yanukovych, from the US and the EU and its capitals Abroad..
    And I don’t want to release Tymoshenko, but I have to ..
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 31 October 2013 13: 39
      0
      Quote: MG42
      this is a subtle game aimed at trading with the Russian Federation aimed at lowering gas prices at the last moment and rapprochement with the CU, but such a "somersault" will very painfully hit Yanukovych, from the US and the EU and its capitals abroad ..

      Well, if so, then he should transfer foreign accounts long ago to China or elsewhere
      1. MG42
        MG42 31 October 2013 13: 57
        +4
        One thing I can say for sure, if Yanuk was sitting on the suitcases, he would not have started such a grandiose construction of his estate in Mizhhirya, he understands that in the event Tymoshenko comes to power or Klitschko he will have to return it, in these murky layouts he will not have to wait long before summit in Vilnius less than a month, a litmus test will be issued by Tymoshenko or not in the next week a maximum of 2 weeks = it will be seen ..

        Ukrainian politicians are already booking cottages in Vilnius for the summit
        In the capital of Lithuania, sidewalks have already been repaired, janitors have been pacified, and excursions are being prepared in the advanced villages of the country.

        IN RADA, ALREADY GOING FOR A SUMMIT. On the sidelines of the Verkhovna Rada they say that many deputies and their assistants are gathering for the event. “The delegation will be formed by Andriy Klyuyev (Secretary of the NSDC. - Ed.), And about a hundred more people will gather with him. Already, they are ordering accommodation in hotels and cottages in the city, ”a source in the Rada told Vesti.


        http://vesti.ua/politika/22802-ukrainskie-politiki-uzhe-bronirujut-k-sammitu-kot
        tedzhi-v-vilnjuse
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 31 October 2013 14: 29
          +1
          Quote: MG42
          , he understands perfectly well that if Tymoshenko comes to power or Klitschko he will have to return it,

          Well, perhaps not to return, but to transfer to the new owners.
          1. MG42
            MG42 31 October 2013 14: 37
            +3
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            Well, perhaps not to return, but to transfer to the new owners.

            And what is the difference? Originally "Mizhgirya" is a state residence, it is Yanukovych through the firm of his son who formalized the land as his own

            Tymoshenko already tried to take it away from him in 2009, but then there was no such investment there as it is now, the cost increased significantly in 2013, of course the tenant can interpret this as an inalienable improvement, there is such a law on lease before redemption .. >>

            V. YANUKOVICH said today at a press conference in Kiev, commenting on the accusation of Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko of illegality in obtaining private property in the territory of the Mezhgorye residence and its return to state ownership.


            “This is the residence that all governments have owned since the time of Shcherbitsky. The fact that YANUKOVICH personally took this particular government residence for his country house

            Read more here: http://www.unian.net/news/333083-yanukovich-zayavlyaet-chto-on-zakonnyiy-vladele



            ts-rezidentsii-mejgore.html
          2. Egoza
            Egoza 31 October 2013 20: 07
            +2
            Quote: MG42
            wait less than a month before the summit in Vilnius

            It’s a month before the summit, but there has already been talk that signing may be postponed until 2014, when they will consider the association with Georgia and Moldova. And at the same time
            Ukraine may join the 5 international agreements of the Customs Union. This decision was made by the government at the next meeting of October 30, the Government portal reports. Recall at each meeting, the Cabinet of Ministers analyzes several international documents of the CU and decides on possible accession to them. On October 30, the 4 document was considered - on the procedure for applying special protective, antidumping and countervailing measures during the transition period (from November 19 to November 2010 of the year), on sanitary, veterinary and sanitary measures and plant quarantine (all three documents from December December 11 of the 2009 year).
            Source: http://polemika.com.ua/news-130164.html#title
            XXXX
            They didn’t consider anything and didn’t smell anything, but then suddenly at every meeting!
    2. Egoza
      Egoza 31 October 2013 20: 00
      +1
      Quote: MG42
      And I don’t want to release Tymoshenko, but I have to ..

      And figs to them! Do not let her Janek! Even for 200 lemons. Yes, and we are now paying the loans that Julia collected in 2005-2006gg.
      1. MG42
        MG42 31 October 2013 20: 25
        +3
        Quote: Egoza
        And figs to them! Do not let her Janek! Even for 200 lemons.

        I will not argue, Elena. Only a very narrow circle of people in Ukraine knows this, I don’t enter there .. hi One thing is clear here a week another; everything will become clear extremely ..
        Quote: Egoza
        And we are now paying the loans that Julia collected in 2005-2006.

        The only amendment, in 2006, Julia was not the prime minister, and Yanukovych was such a character.
        Julia was the first time Prime Minister from January to September 2005.
        Second from December 2007 to March 2010 ..

        Yanukovych was also prime minister under Yushchenko too it does not sound paradoxical wassat
        from August 2006 to November 2007

        After Tymoshenko and in front of Yanukovych in 2006, Yekhanurov was from September 2005 to August 2006.
  19. Yankuz
    Yankuz 31 October 2013 13: 23
    +1
    If Ukraine leaves for Europe, everything will become worse - both for Ukraine and Russia, because our peoples and our states are created for each other and simply cannot be really apart! Therefore, I propose - Ukraine should be given a good thrashing - first economic, and then if it does not help, then military-political! Like a husband to a playful wife who flirted too much with other men! And in no case is it not inciting ethnic conflict! On the contrary - the union of native peoples! As our ancestors did and bequeathed to us! Ukraine should always be near Russia !!! Like a faithful wife, married to God, if you like!
    1. Andrew 447
      Andrew 447 31 October 2013 14: 06
      +7
      The series of the Ukrainian government called "We will sit on 2 chairs" is endless and it does not depend on which party or president is in power. The "elite" of Ukraine has been infected with the virus of "cunning and unprincipled" for more than 20 years. A new old song "Let's enter The EU, in spite of the mo.s.k.a.l.yam "is boring to everyone, even the Europeans. Most likely it was another mediocre attempt to blackmail Russia and this blackmail drove the Ukrainian government into a dead end. They care about the state of relations with Russia and the EU. war, not peace "- that is, the question of joining the NWT EU should be suspended indefinitely, which gives Kiev the opportunity to continue blackmailing Russia and the EU. Russia and the EU understand this and set strict terms and conditions. And in my humble opinion with a 90% probability, Ukraine will not sign an agreement with the EU.
    2. Luna
      Luna 31 October 2013 16: 31
      +2
      If Ukraine does not descend to Europe, then the following 10..20..50 ... will be tormented for 100 years that bad people did not give her to breathe in the air of freedom and enjoy European well-being. Do we need it?
    3. Selevc
      Selevc 31 October 2013 21: 28
      +2
      Quote: Yankuz
      Therefore, I propose - Ukraine should be given a good thrashing - first economic, and then if it does not help, then military-political

      You shouldn’t be so sweet ... The people will feel economic upheaval - especially the poorest people who are deprived of life and barely eradicating their existence ... Incidentally, many people from this layer are for friendship and alliances with Russia ... And pigs -Presidents, officials and oligarchs, as before, will fatten and only chuckle at the simple-minded and poor fool ... And if the military-political thrashing, then again they have all the planes on the reserve aerodrome - a couple of hours and they are political victims in Geyrop, and Yugoslavia No. 2 shines even to the people !!!
      God, how did they get these thieving round political faces with small and arrogant pork eyes !!! One quick joint operation of the special forces of Ukraine, the Russian Federation and Belarus + a couple of hours of machine gunner’s work and in the morning people will wake up with a feeling of gigantic relief and freedom !!!
  20. Mhpv
    Mhpv 31 October 2013 13: 34
    +2
    Here's what I accidentally found:
    27 September 2007, 12: 23
    Azarov worries that Ukraine with its "shyness" weary Russia
    First Deputy Prime Minister Mykola Azarov hopes that after the election, Ukraine will intensify cooperation with Russia.




    "I hope that after these elections we need to sit down with the Russians, frankly

    talk and find common areas for cooperation ... Another alternative for

    I don't see us, "Azarov said.

    The Deputy Prime Minister said that the government is currently working quite actively with Russian colleagues, but he believes that the presidents of both

    countries are very rare.

    "I must admit that the level of our relations ... could have been much higher", -

    said Azarov.

    In his opinion, Ukraine went the wrong way, not clearly defining its

    foreign policy guidelines.

    "Not only Europe is tired of Ukraine, Russia is tired of Ukraine, tired of

    uncertainty and from our shyness, "- said Azarov.
    If you find an error in the text, select it with the mouse and press Ctrl + Enter
    Source: Ukrainian News

    laughing
    1. MG42
      MG42 31 October 2013 13: 48
      +5
      Can this clown be trusted? He is completely puppet and depends on Yanukovych.
      Here are some interesting excerpts from the Yanukovych program wassat >>

      UKRAINE SHOULD ENTER 10 YEARS OF THE MOST ECONOMICALLY DEVELOPED COUNTRIES OF THE WORLD FOR 20 YEARS (G 20).

      MY GOAL - FIFTY MILLION CITIZENS OF UKRAINE ALREADY IN 2020.

      ? small business tax holidays for 5 years;

      ? VAT reduction to 17% since 2011;

      5. TWO LANGUAGES - ONE COUNTRY!

      I crave the real adoption in Ukraine of European standards of democracy, the steady guarantee of human rights and freedoms. I stand for giving the Russian language the status of a second state. I am a consistent supporter of a civilized solution to this issue.

      6. MODERN ARMY - COUNTRY SECURITY

      I guarantee the transition to the contract army since 2011.

      I will restore friendly and mutually beneficial relations with the Russian Federation, the CIS countries

      UKRAINE WILL TAKE DECENT PLACE IN THE WORLD COMMUNITY. UNITING OUR JOINT EFFORTS, WE WILL BUILD A NEW - SUCCESSFUL AND PROPERTY UKRAINE! UKRAINE FOR HUMAN, UKRAINE FOR PEOPLE!


      http://vibori.in.ua/kandidaty/predvibornie-programy/427-p
      1. seller trucks
        seller trucks 31 October 2013 14: 13
        +5
        Quote: MG42
        UKRAINE WILL TAKE DECENT PLACE IN THE WORLD COMMUNITY. UNITING OUR JOINT EFFORTS, WE WILL BUILD A NEW - SUCCESSFUL AND PROPERTY UKRAINE! UKRAINE FOR HUMAN, UKRAINE FOR PEOPLE!


        Quietly slate rustling,
        The roof goes slowly
        And the fact that I'm under this roof
        The roof does not know a shisha.

        I’m standing, a mackerel of Czech
        Isn't life good?
        My roof is moving off
        But the soul is happy.

        They tell me a sidekick
        You are like a church mouse
        You drop all your rhymes
        And for a soul not a penny.

        I'm normal, not left-handed!
        And always writing poetry,
        I feel like under the roof
        Clever thoughts rustle.

        The roof decided to get mad
        Other roofs have shingles,
        And you scribbler, your mother,
        You can’t change the slate!

        I answered her, roof, sha!
        Even a hut is enough for me
        You move out if you really want to
        Just do not bother to think!
        1. MG42
          MG42 31 October 2013 14: 20
          +5
          Vital, it’s not my quote, but Yanukovych, if you analyze his program that just laughter through tears is done. crying
          The population of Ukraine has decreased to 45 million people, the Russian language has received regional status as Romanian Hungarian and Polish, for example, 20% VAT, relations with Russia have deteriorated, etc.
          He fully confirmed the principle to promise = this does not mean to marry! However, Yushchenko had an equally funny program <10 steps towards people!> Was allegedly called so ..
          1. seller trucks
            seller trucks 31 October 2013 15: 02
            +2
            Quote: MG42
            The population of Ukraine decreased to 45 million people,


            is it taking into account gastrobayterov? although without it I’m almost sure that the figure is too high. there is a legal feature in the deprivation of Ukrainian citizenship, for this it is necessary to write a letter addressed to the President of Ukraine, how do you think many did it? I already wrote somehow that formally, I am a citizen of Ukraine, although I have lived in Russia for 20 years.

            Quote: MG42
            the Russian language received regional status as Romanian Hungarian and Polish for example,


            that and so it is clear, they threw a bone, rejoice

            Well, the fact that politicians in Ukraine are oligophrenic, so the Ukrainians themselves write about it, so I start this morning with Vajra and Lunev.
            1. MG42
              MG42 31 October 2013 15: 14
              +5
              Quote: seller trucks
              is it taking into account gastrobayterov? although without it I’m almost sure that the figure is too high there is a legal feature in the deprivation of Ukrainian citizenship, for this you need to write a letter addressed to the President of Ukraine, how do you think many did? I already wrote somehow that formally, I am a citizen of Ukraine, although I have been living in Russia for 20 years.

              The population is not considered so, if we take into account the migrant workers that actually do not stay at the moment on the territory of Ukraine, then it is necessary to take into account the migrants who are there now, there will be confusion, there is Ukrainian citizenship and this is a priority, in addition, it is necessary to conduct a population census more often >>
              Vitalya, look at these faces, this is Kharkov >>
              1. seller trucks
                seller trucks 31 October 2013 15: 38
                +6
                Quote: MG42
                Vitalya, look at these faces, this is Kharkov >>


                Sergei good dark-haired in the north of Ukraine, and these are the southern regions



                and these will come from the west



                I get the impression that Ukraine is being turned into an ethnic trash, don’t you?
                1. MG42
                  MG42 31 October 2013 15: 48
                  +4
                  Quote: seller trucks
                  It arises from me that Ukraine is being turned into an ethnic garbage dump, don’t you?

                  Moreover, it is called assimilationif you touch the same Kharkov,
                  . Near Kharkov there are new cottage towns, and in the city itself - Vietnamese-Chinatown.

                  http://www.mobus.com/vybory/24568.html
                  .. there was a bankrupt factory some of the buildings of the KhTZT and the hostels are inhabited exclusively by Vietnamese and Chinese, the closed production cycle, there are still bazaars whole shopping arcades were occupied
                  pictured is a Vietnamese restaurant
                  1. seller trucks
                    seller trucks 31 October 2013 16: 03
                    +5
                    Quote: MG42
                    Moreover, this is called assimilation, if you touch the same Kharkov,


                    those. it can become a reality, yeah, somehow sad
                    1. MG42
                      MG42 31 October 2013 20: 13
                      +3
                      Vitalia, this photo was already in my post, this is a local amateur performance, here's an interesting note caught by the Vietnamese >>
                      true, but the number of Vietnamese in 10 years has grown ..

                      Kharkov Vietnamese fraternity is the largest in Ukraine

                      Most of the Vietnamese came to our city in Soviet times: to learn, share experiences and raise industry. Today they are already old-timers.
                      Ngun Van Tkhai, First Deputy Chairman of the Board of the KhGOG “Vietnam Partnership”: The people of Kharkov are very kind, friendly and welcoming, Kharkov is my second homeland.
                      Despite the outward openness to live and raise children, Kharkov Vietnamese prefer exclusively in their circle. They say that in a regular school, children forget their native language.
                      Ngun Wang Thai, First Deputy Chairman of the Board, Vietnam Partnership: They already learn Russian. Mostly they speak and think in Russian.

                      Here at the place of honor is a portrait of the Vietnamese president Ho Chi Minh, next to the Ukrainian poet Taras Shevchenko. Not knowing the customs and traditions of the country in which you live means always being a stranger.

                      Ngun Van Tkhai, First Deputy Chairman of the Board of the Vietnam Society of HGOG: In our homeland it is believed that speaking loudly on the street, on a trolleybus is permissible, but it is indecent for you.
                      Vietnamese do not like to complain about life.

                      Ngun Wang Thai, First Deputy Chairman of the Board, Vietnam Partnership All holidays are Ukrainian, then even Vietnamese. Nobody will refuse holidays.
                      The Vietnamese community also has its own press - the Rodina magazine, and although it is published in Kharkov, it does not contain a word in Russian


                      http://www.mediaport.ua/news/society/1336


                      Wholesale site of Vietnamese community

                      http://wikimapia.org/21362524/ru/%D0%9E%D0%BF%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B0%D1%8F-%D0%
                      BF%D0%BB%D0%BE%D1%89%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%BA%D0%B0-%D0%B2%D1%8C%D0%B5%D1%82%D0%BD%D0%B
                      0%D0%BC%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE-%D0%B7%D0%B5%D0%BC%D0%BB%D1%8F%D1%87%D0%B5
                      %D1%81%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%B0
                  2. Oleg Kharkov
                    Oleg Kharkov 31 October 2013 23: 57
                    0
                    One single restaurant on Odessa and you have already decided that there is a whole block of Chinese. And this is your occupation of Kharkiv by the ancient Romans? So everything is in order with Kharkov.
                    1. MG42
                      MG42 1 November 2013 00: 39
                      +2
                      Quote: Oleg Kharkov
                      One single restaurant on Odessa and you have already decided that there is a whole block of Chinese.

                      For starters, <Rising Dragon> = this is a vietnamese restaurant bully , google the number of fraternities in Kharkov and their restaurants, do not la la ..
                      Quote: Oleg Kharkov
                      And this is your occupation of Kharkiv by the ancient Romans?

                      Where do I have a word about Rome? fool
                      Quote: Oleg Kharkov
                      So everything is in order with Kharkov.

                      I would not say so, go to the market "Barabashovo" to Photos from the market, a typical seller >>
      2. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 31 October 2013 14: 31
        0
        Quote: MG42
        UKRAINE FOR HUMAN

        Read for Yanukovych.
        Quote: MG42
        , UKRAINE FOR PEOPLE!

        Read -for close Yanukovych.
        1. Walker1975
          Walker1975 31 October 2013 15: 17
          +1
          You still forgot one of the main last slogans Pokraschennya already sogodnі - Improvement today.
          Even the demotivator saw a funny - Caution Abbreviated!
      3. Walker1975
        Walker1975 31 October 2013 15: 15
        0
        Yes, he laughed repeatedly at Yanukovych’s statements ... I remember how he promised to reach 50 million of the population in ten years (there was such nonsense).
        Well, what can you do about the fact that people in the East and South are hawking everything that the authorities and TV say?

        Here are just a lot of interesting things in Putin's promises and programs, you just read.
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 31 October 2013 15: 50
          0
          Quote: Walker1975
          Here are just a lot of interesting things in Putin's promises and programs, you just read.

          This is for Russia, but for Ukraine he does not say anything feasible hi
  21. Asgard
    Asgard 31 October 2013 13: 47
    +8
    All parties do not have a balanced policy.
    The EU does not want Ukraine))) because after the free trade zone, it will be necessary to take further steps towards integration .... They will keep like Turkey on a "starvation diet" smiling and not feeding))))
    Only rituals will be heard about "friendship and cooperation"))))

    Russia (power)) also does not want Ukraine, because cheap products (with sufficient quality)) from there - it prevents raising prices domestically (and does not allow the destruction of Russian enterprises))
    On the contrary, the Customs Union wants - Markets and turnover grow, but This is a small part of the "elites", basically doing something and having their own business stolen right after the collapse of the USSR - retained ties and did not die in the hard years))
    Ukraine itself will die if it signs an agreement with the EU, but the authorities drag it there ....

    Because Judas are everywhere and in Russia, Ukraine, the EU ....
    One Old Man is a MAN., Wait, this story with Kerimov (at the suggestion of Voloshin)) - an attempt to de-integrate the Customs Union, Weaken the Old Man, Kerimov (animal)) zashug - raise the "Turmoil"

    What to do????
    In my opinion, attempts to reach an agreement will not lead to anything ... Chaos is planned, Who will manifest himself as contractual, will be destroyed. And the most important thing ; -
    It is beneficial to the Peoples of Russia and Ukraine - UNIT will happen faster ...
    - how paradoxical It sounds))))))
  22. artifox
    artifox 31 October 2013 14: 13
    +8
    Ukraine itself is already tired of Ukraine
  23. Platoon
    Platoon 31 October 2013 14: 38
    +1
    Greetings to all members of the forum! I apologize, Gentlemen, but I have been on this site for almost two years, my name on the site is TechnarMaf. In other matters, I'm not talking about that. I appeal to the moderators and other leaders of the site, what, have you arranged a kind of get-together other thoughts do not satisfy you? I, among my comments, flew off the site and could not recover. I had to create a new mailbox, re-register to say my "FI"! But I turned to the moderators in PM for help, you don't mind! However, I do not regret that I took off, the military site became purely political, it became not interesting! I will be banned for the rest of my life - on your website I will not say something, HAPPY trolllllllllit!
    1. New Russia
      New Russia 31 October 2013 15: 21
      -1
      Geopolitics and domestic social policy are just as important, even more, in my opinion, than the army) I think ...
      1. Alex toll
        Alex toll 31 October 2013 15: 27
        +1
        How many years ?
        1. New Russia
          New Russia 31 October 2013 15: 53
          0
          How old is gender, profession))) No, do you agree with my words or not? Will there be an army without health care, for example, with a sick population? Without ideology, not having a fighting spirit? Without education? Economics? And a lot of what? !And how old are you?)))
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 31 October 2013 16: 02
            0
            Quote: New Russia
            How old, gender, profession)))

            Listen stutter, but spit on for years and much more, close your laptop and go to the tavern
          2. Alex toll
            Alex toll 31 October 2013 16: 07
            +1
            These are all parts of one chain - there will be no strong army, you will not be able to establish your position in the arena, and then export and import in Pope. No need to build illusions according to the principle of "Hippie anxiety" you don't show your teeth!
            In my opinion, the example of America is generally indicative - there is power and 60% impose their own rules on the planet’s population - their truth - about the chemical. weapons and all kinds of nonsense.
            And all because of the buck - the war there costs a lot of money - a lot of private arms manufacturers .............. McCain - he generally probably already shares with the gunsmiths and with each cartridge.
            26 - Project Manager in the petrochemical company.
          3. Setrac
            Setrac 1 November 2013 01: 36
            0
            Quote: New Russia
            No, do you agree with my words or not? Will there be an army without health care, for example, with a sick population?

            Do not agree. Without healthcare, the sick will die, the nation will continue to be healthy. With healthcare, patients give birth to patients. No matter how cruel it may sound, natural selection is necessary to improve the nation.
            1. Kars
              Kars 1 November 2013 01: 57
              +1
              Quote: Setrac
              . Without healthcare, the sick will die, the nation will continue to be healthy.

              Where is the smiley facespam))))) And women will give birth at home, and there will be child mortality))) you are not only not in love with Ukraine, but also people)))

              But how intelligence is developed)))
              1. Setrac
                Setrac 1 November 2013 12: 17
                0
                Quote: Kars
                Where is the smiley facespam)))))

                Where can I put emoticons, I really somehow decide without snotty. Sorry, what kind of comment is the answer.
                Quote: Kars
                And women will give birth at home, and child mortality will be))) you are not only not in love with Ukraine, but also people)))

                You simplify everything, you don’t need to go to such extremes.
        2. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 31 October 2013 15: 53
          0
          Quote: Alex Toll
          How many years ?

          Young also ... maybe a pretty blonde laughing
          1. New Russia
            New Russia 31 October 2013 16: 03
            -2
            ................ Pf)
      2. Russ69
        Russ69 1 November 2013 00: 59
        0
        Quote: New Russia
        Geopolitics and domestic social policy are just as important, even more, in my opinion, than the army)
        Without a good army, no geopolitics will work ... These things are interconnected ...
    2. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 31 October 2013 15: 52
      0
      Quote: Platoon
      But I turned to the moderators in PM for help, figs to you!

      Speak your last nickname, restore.
      Quote: Platoon
      You can ban me for the rest of my life - on your site I won’t say anything TAPTALLALLYLY!

      Yes, we’re all trolling on the easy one, we found something to surprise laughing
      1. Platoon
        Platoon 31 October 2013 16: 14
        +1
        Yes, I do not need the last nickname! And I did not say that the previous nickname will be restored. I had real shoulder straps and I am proud of them, even though they are not generals! Well, you should not be flirting, mister of novels (with a small letter), you are one of those on whom I "rolled a barrel" Between inshim, in your place I would paused, covering himself with a bashful blush, but zvinyayte cotton!
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 31 October 2013 17: 09
          +3
          Quote: Platoon
          You are one of those on whom I "rolled the barrel"

          Oh, yes, someone constantly rolls a barrel on me laughing
          Quote: Platoon
          , In your place, I would be silent for a moment, covered with a bashful blush

          Walk yourself with a bashful blush!
  24. pensioner
    pensioner 31 October 2013 14: 50
    +3
    I am touched by Yanukovych's statements about "civilizational choice." Those. the EU has a completely different civilization. Highly developed in every sense. And in Ukraine and in Russia, it's not even a civilization, but ... Something so faintly reminiscent of it ... The gloomy Middle Ages in general.
    1. In the book
      In the book 31 October 2013 18: 55
      +3
      Quote: retired
      Dark Middle Ages

      gloomy Middle Ages - this is primarily Yanukovych himself and his accomplices
  25. ZU-23
    ZU-23 31 October 2013 14: 57
    +4
    Maybe God willing it will be good for Ukraine, but no one will allow themselves to be dressed like Russia before the EU, there will only be a bargain policy, as an independent state of Ukraine will no longer be unambiguous, they will tell you to be roosters and they will become easy, you just could not survive as an independent state, and Bulbashs with Kazakhs will survive easily and on equal terms with Russia.
  26. xcvxc73
    xcvxc73 31 October 2013 15: 22
    -8
    accidentally stumbled upon a site that allows you to challenge fines online, at the beginning I didn’t believe it, I thought it was a divorce, but I decided to try and imagine it turned out: one of the 3 fines was canceled. Hooray, I saved almost 4000 rubles. here try it yourself, modet and you will succeed. here is a link to the service http://safe.mn/bazam
  27. Big lexey
    Big lexey 31 October 2013 15: 30
    0
    Quote: Walker1975
    By the way, what is the price of gas in Russia, say 95? If possible, in dollars? In Ukraine, somewhere around 1.35 per liter.

    In Moscow, Ai-95 ~ $ 0.96 - $ 1.00 per liter. If you "try", then you can find more expensive ...
    But another thing surprises me. In Ukraine, the price of gasoline is higher, on average, by a third, but public transport or taxi is cheaper (sometimes significantly) than in Russia. I DO NOT UNDERSTAND!
    Rather, I understand that this greed, but this should soon burst somewhere!
    Example: a bus ride in Kiev - 2,5 hryvnias (this is ~ 10 rubles), in Moscow - 28 rubles.
    1. Walker1975
      Walker1975 31 October 2013 16: 26
      +2
      Quote: BigLexey
      Example: a bus ride in Kiev - 2,5 hryvnias (this is ~ 10 rubles)


      Do not! I myself am a Kievite. In Kiev, the fare on a trolley bus, bus and tram is 1.5 UAH. Something around 18 American cents. Metro - 2 UAH. Minibuses from 2 to 3 UAH depending on the route. 2.5 UAH - the most common price for a minibus. 3 UAH - it is already necessary to travel the whole city.
      1. Stamp
        Stamp 31 October 2013 16: 33
        +4
        It's not for long. Popov promised to raise
        An economically reasonable price for travel in Kyiv ground transport is a ticket for 2,5 UAH, said the chairman of the Kyiv City State Administration Alexander Popov.
        According to the official, now the government subsidizes each trip 1 hryvnia, which is about 300-350 million hryvnias per year.
        As for the fare set by private carriers, Popov said that the metropolitan authorities could not influence this.
        Recall earlier in the KSCA also stated that the economically sound fare for the metro in 2013 will be 3 or 3,05 UAH per trip.

        http://news.online.ua/563701/proezd-v-kieve-dolzhen-stoit-25-grn-popov/
        1. Walker1975
          Walker1975 31 October 2013 18: 55
          0
          Well, he will raise and raise, but it will still be cheaper than in Russia. And why? I do not know
          1. xan
            xan 1 November 2013 14: 42
            0
            Quote: Walker1975
            Well, he will raise and raise, but it will still be cheaper than in Russia. And why? I do not know

            But salaries in Moscow are and will be many times higher than in Kiev. Including because they pay for transport at real prices.
    2. Stamp
      Stamp 31 October 2013 16: 27
      +5
      Quote: BigLexey
      But another thing surprises me. In Ukraine, the price of gasoline is higher, on average, by a third, but public transport or taxi is cheaper (sometimes significantly) than in Russia. I DO NOT UNDERSTAND!
      Rather, I understand that this greed, but this should soon burst somewhere!
      Example: a bus ride in Kiev - 2,5 hryvnias (this is ~ 10 rubles), in Moscow - 28 rubles.

      Transport should not be unprofitable. In Ukraine, many drivers are registered under a labor agreement for a minimum wage. The employer pays taxes on salaries. Of course, the lion's share in the cost of the trip is fuel, but there are other components. In addition, the fare in minibuses varies. In the regions of Ukraine, transport is even more expensive than in Kiev.
      Moscow is an expensive city, one of the ten most expensive cities in the world! Look for a comparison of the cost per square meter of housing on the market in Moscow and Kiev. Apartments for rent in Moscow are also much more expensive. Obviously, the salary in Moscow is more than in Kiev.
  28. Anper
    Anper 31 October 2013 16: 34
    +3
    Quote: GDP
    since the Ukrainian authorities turned our backs on us, it was somehow unethical to reach out to them ... At least until they turned to face us.

    And the smart Spaniard Goya wrote on one of his drawings that there are people who have the most obscene part of the body - the face, and it would not be bad for their owners to hide it in their pants.
    Here, it seems, just such a situation - why not turn around, everything is obscene.
  29. stranik72
    stranik72 31 October 2013 22: 09
    +3
    Well, then, another victory of the West, with the active participation of our 5th column (power). I have not been surprised for a long time by the duplicity of GDP, such a patriot on the screen, a fighter against corruption, and at the same time, the loss of Ukraine, Tubaretkin, Chubais, theft in Skolkovo, failure after failure in the economic and social sphere in national politics, like we get a vivid answer who is hu.
    1. starhina01
      starhina01 31 October 2013 23: 08
      0
      let myself disagree with you hi Ukraine puts itself in such a catfish, or its leaders have too much opinion about themselves. GDP is also not good for agreeing to any conditions in the course of asking too much. hi
  30. Vasily Klopkov
    Vasily Klopkov 1 November 2013 00: 28
    -1
    I believe that we - Ukrainians - need to integrate only into the CU and then this cooperation will give an impetus to the development of domestic industry. Russia is the main buyer of all our products, in which, by the way, there is no exclusivity, everyone also knows how to do it. Further worse. Russia doesn’t take our goods, and Europe also doesn’t need them for 300 years, but European goods will fill our counters. It seems good, but where do our manufacturers go? But there will be no reason to produce something. Enterprises will close, people will be left without work. But then we will be in the Eurozone. So who needs it? That's right, our oligarchs.
  31. okean969
    okean969 1 November 2013 12: 32
    0
    Comrade Pozhidaev too superficially knows the economies of the countries of TS
  32. komel
    komel 1 November 2013 23: 31
    0
    Without paying Russia, Ukraine wants to privatize all that remains. Like, look at how we are being tortured by gases, we simply have no other choice but to arrange privatization. While the people will scold the Russians, the cunning bourgeois will take the last from them in favor of a handful of businessmen with global corporate interests.