Military Review

Promedol or ibuprofen?

84
Promedol or ibuprofen?I would very much like to discuss the topic of the latest exhibition of the military field medicine.


Yesterday (30.10.2013/XNUMX/XNUMX) I saw in the news report from this exhibition. Promedol (anesthetic antishock effect) was removed from regimental first-aid kits. Some very "smart military" medical luminaries have replaced PROMEDOL with IBUPROFEN, which old women treat for rheumatism, and even then with minimal results.

I am very interested in, who could have come up with such a “brilliant” thought? It seems that the people who did this have nothing to do with the actual combat situation and medicine in general. On my own example, I can say that, having received a shrapnel wound in the chest with small fragments (the left ventricle of the heart and the left lung struck), in an unconscious state reaching the surgical table, later in the postoperative period I received promedol and thromedol, despite the punctured lung, the respiratory depression the system. Without these drugs, I could not breathe - due to pain caused by injury and further surgical intervention (torn ribs of the chest + tube catheters inserted into the lung between the ribs). And what to say, for example, when the foot, arms, hands are torn off ... Doctors suggest ibuprofen to inject a crippled soldier ?? I would like to look at the doctor himself if he were on the site of this fighter with an ibuprofen injection before evacuation from the battlefield.

The percentage of mortality of such injured and injured people (open limb fractures) from pain shock will increase one and a half times. And there will be nobody to sort by the Pirogov system. Perhaps this is what they strive for so as not to mess with future cripples! I’m not even talking about situations when you need to get important information from a seriously wounded person - for the survival of the rest of the group of servicemen.

So that the excuse that opium drugs inhibit respiratory function, in my opinion, for all 100% are not a reason to replace the drug, in the extreme case, you could leave both that the paramedic himself could decide which drug to use, depending on the situation and condition of the wounded.

Always in all history local military conflicts syringe tube with promedol was in fact the last hope of the wounded, helping to wait for the evacuation or painlessly move into another world.

PS I am not a doctor. Point of view of a soldier.
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  1. vanaheym
    vanaheym 5 November 2013 06: 48
    +6
    In my opinion, since 2004, instead of promedol, butorphanol has been put in first-aid kits.
    And so, of modern means - very good for lornoxicam (xefocam).
  2. Canep
    Canep 5 November 2013 06: 48
    14
    I'm certainly not a doctor, but in my opinion here, as with weapons, the more effective the better. And the effect should be very fast. I think doctors will replace this ibuprofen with medical alcohol as during WWII. And the legs on this topic are likely to grow from the drug department of the Ministry of Internal Affairs.
    1. baltika-18
      baltika-18 5 November 2013 09: 05
      17
      Quote: Canep
      I'm certainly not a medic

      And here you don’t have to be a physician. You have enough of your own experience. Even without a war. I had an accident, the car caught fire, got burns of 3-4 degrees, 50% of the body. If the promedol didn’t prick the ambulance from pain shock survived. And in a war worse cases are. No, everything is not right in our country, everything is turned upside down.
      1. leon-iv
        leon-iv 5 November 2013 09: 49
        +2
        A small face without there is no such thing as pain shock.
        Although I’m not a doctor, I know PMA quite well from the team doctors.
        so from memory let the doctors correct
        hypovolemic shock is burns of blood loss
        vasogenic shock is sepsis and injury
        cardiogenic shock is myocardium and other cardiac
        obstructive shock is pulmonary damage.
        And painkillers per se is not an antishock drug by definition.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 5 November 2013 09: 54
          0
          http://www.medpopul.ru/skoraya/shok.html
        2. aleshka
          aleshka 5 November 2013 17: 41
          +3
          painkillers such as promedol alleviate the effects of pain shock — whatever the nature of the shock! that is, cardiac arrest, rupture of cerebral vessels, etc. - the first commandment of military doctors is to relieve pain! so your educational program with a bunch of clever words is PURGA !!!
        3. baltika-18
          baltika-18 5 November 2013 19: 15
          +2
          Quote: leon-iv
          A small face without there is no such thing as pain shock.

          There may not be a concept, but there is a shock. Check: put your hand in the stove and hold it for at least a minute, then you can talk about theory. It's a joke, of course, but the burn pain is such that you can go crazy.
    2. mirag2
      mirag2 5 November 2013 09: 22
      +4
      What kind of alcohol? There is no need for alcohol-alcohol with a strength of over 60g has a drying effect-40g-irritating. Alcohol 96 can be put only to disinfect small abrasions - on large, extensive wounds, it can not be poured, only to process the edges. Therefore, it is better to have any antiseptic - but not alcohol - and a drug is needed - for a state of shock. The stronger, the better, what "butorphanol" is - I don't remember exactly, in my opinion it is an amplifier of opiate anesthesia (to reduce, for example, the amount of morphine administered, promedola, etc.)
      There are opium-based drugs, slightly altered, with less narcotic effect, with no pronounced, inhibitory effect, but a prolonged analgesic effect.
      It’s just that I used to work in medicine 20 years ago ...
      1. cumastra1
        cumastra1 5 November 2013 13: 43
        +7
        Promedol, morphine, and others like them saved thousands of soldiers and ordinary injured people from inevitable death. Changing drugs to ibuprofen is not just stupid, but criminal. If this is a diversion on the part of drug control, then it is necessary to strengthen this very control, and not replace effective drugs with holy water.
      2. lelikas
        lelikas 5 November 2013 14: 40
        +7
        Quote: mirag2
        What kind of alcohol?

        I’m not a doctor either, but it seems to me, Minesweeper had in mind the use of alcohol orally.
        1. PSih2097
          PSih2097 5 November 2013 14: 53
          +2
          Quote: lelikas
          Quote: mirag2
          What kind of alcohol?

          I’m not a doctor either, but it seems to me, Minesweeper had in mind the use of alcohol orally.

          laughing
        2. sso-xnumx
          sso-xnumx 5 November 2013 22: 24
          0
          so for sure! alcohol in small doses is useful in any quantity .........
    3. novobranets
      novobranets 5 November 2013 18: 57
      +2
      Make the doctor pray to God, he will break the floor. Well, okay, someone's "bright" head replaced the drug, I'm not surprised, at least shoot such geniuses. But why did the military doctors not sound the alarm? Without a powerful anti-shock drug, many salvable wounded will not make it to the hospital.
      1. sso-xnumx
        sso-xnumx 5 November 2013 22: 29
        +1
        so we have no rights, but try to get a license for the storage and use of drugs! Then you will be tortured to write explanatory notes, plus have an equipped room in accordance with the prescribed "laws" requirements, etc., etc.
        In general, it’s cheaper to bury than to cure .........
    4. Onotollah
      Onotollah 6 November 2013 05: 44
      0
      Quote: Canep
      And the legs of this topic are likely to grow from

      The most important word "MOST OF ALL"
      "I saw a report from this exhibition on the news."
      Men, I'm wildly sorry, but did someone check the information?
      Could this be a reporter’s mistake or even a deliberate informational attack on a fan?
      (If something minus the article is not mine)
  3. Vadim-Skeptic
    Vadim-Skeptic 5 November 2013 06: 53
    11
    Rather, the point is to conduct a tender for the supply of anti-shock and pain medication for the Moscow Region. Which pharmaceutical company will supply ibuprofen? And most importantly, whose and for what money (kickbacks)? Who is the direct recipient? It is possible that there are objective reasons - for example, the limitation of the supply of opium raw materials.
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 5 November 2013 07: 32
      +8
      Quote: Vadim the Skeptic
      Rather, the point is to conduct a tender for the supply of antishock and pain medication for the Moscow Region

      This is not a contraceptive, even if it is suitable for children. The drug is definitely not for warriors.
      Ibuprofen - is considered as a very safe and effective antipyretic, analgesic and anti-inflammatory drug, approved for use in children of any age. Indications for use are the same as for paracetamol. The mechanisms of action of the drugs are different, paracetamol is better for some children, ibuprofen is better for others. So can be used unambiguously, but "better or worse", in comparison with paracetamol - so the question is not worth it. You can safely put an equal sign.www.komarovskiy.net/faq/ibuprofen.html
    2. SPLV
      SPLV 5 November 2013 13: 37
      +7
      I apologize, but this has nothing to do with the supply of raw materials (the harvest, they say, is huge in Afghanistan this year). This is a modern anti-drug policy, as always brought to the point of absurdity. This summer, a new wave of drug prohibitions has passed. One of the types of medicines a wife needs, now no doctor has been prescribed since August. And to all the poons that substitutes are ineffective, it’s just that our caring government, as usual, solves the problems of its stupidity at the expense of the population and its health.
      "The country cooed to me about filial love,
      Wiping dry eyes with a handkerchief ... "
      1. cumastra1
        cumastra1 10 November 2013 19: 15
        0
        And would you know what the rules for prescribing medicines and sick leave are simply terrible. Moreover, there is no control as such - there is only one visibility. But the doctor is initially treated as guilty of drug theft, bribery and other deadly sins. At the same time, they forget that the main stream of theft, extortion, fraud, as well as the reason for the inability to treat the population, lies not in the office of the local therapist, but in the office of the head physician, his deputies and in accounting. It is there that they write off drugs and expensive medicines and the money they share with others earned ...
  4. mirag2
    mirag2 5 November 2013 06: 58
    15
    You know what I will say about the "optimization" of first-aid kits and the "orange box", by the way, this is a mockery of people who face extreme conditions in which it is very difficult to survive. And it is impossible to withdraw painkillers and drugs from first-aid kits in any case ...
    These are "excesses" in the fight against drug addiction - not in the environment where it should be done - there are things that should not be touched by their dirty bureaucratic paws.
    And this is a first aid kit with a normal painkiller.
    "Ibuprofen" - what kind of pain reliever is it? Like aspirin or paracetamol?
    Ibuprofen-NSAIDs is a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug, with a LIGHT pain reliever effect (actually a side effect) - it’s not that it doesn’t help with shock, it won’t even MUTE the toothache ...
    A promedol in the medicine cabinet-NEEDED.
    I think this topic needs to be thrown Shoigu, I think he will understand that this is generally wrecking.
    1. nov_tech.vrn
      nov_tech.vrn 5 November 2013 10: 09
      +3
      another optimization of non-professionals, now from medicine, to keep first-aid kits with promedol because of drug control is hemorrhagic, and the fact that ibuprofen is of little use, and by the way it itself can cause hemorrhagic diathesis, is either unprofitable or not desirable.
      1. I do not care
        I do not care 5 November 2013 17: 35
        0
        Onishchenko equated parsley with a narcotic drug and then Promedol. In our country there is always something to fight with and to whom ...
        1. sso-xnumx
          sso-xnumx 5 November 2013 22: 31
          0
          Verily, make a fool pray to God ..........
  5. Horn
    Horn 5 November 2013 07: 04
    12
    The authors of the "optimization" firmly believe that neither they nor their children will fall under bullets and debris.
    1. GHG
      GHG 5 November 2013 07: 24
      +5
      Do not be afraid for their children, I am sure that the child of "optimizers" will not hear the word army even in a nightmare.
  6. JIaIIoTb
    JIaIIoTb 5 November 2013 07: 17
    +5
    I am very interested in who could have come up with such a "brilliant" idea?

    Another very "effective" manager.
  7. sergey261180
    sergey261180 5 November 2013 07: 19
    +2
    The Taburetkin case continues to live. At first they wanted to exchange normal tanks for light wheeled ones, right now promedol for vitamins, then what? Will they exchange nuclear warheads for shit bombs? And although the campaign has already changed
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 5 November 2013 07: 35
      +7
      Quote: sergey261180
      The Taburetkin case continues to live.

      Your photo is bullshit, in the original article there was nothing about American control. I read this article. From the series we were betrayed. Why are you lying to people?
      1. sergey261180
        sergey261180 5 November 2013 07: 48
        0
        Here is the original.

        http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htchem/20131025.aspx

        Translated promt easily. Third paragraph:

        20 Soviet nuclear warheads were dismantled under this program. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

        But about the control:

        Most Russian nukes have been disassembled and their nuclear material turned into power-plant fuel. The remaining nuclear weapons are under very tight security and most of their nuclear scientists were given financial and career incentives (paid for by the US) to leave nuclear weapons work behind
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 5 November 2013 08: 04
          +2
          Quote: sergey261180
          20 Soviet nuclear warheads were dismantled under this program. !!!!!!!!!!!!!

          Well, since 20 thousand is written, then 20 thousand wink
          Once again I tell you where in the article it is written that the nuclear weapons of Russia are under the control of the United States ?????? Who gave the bribes, where is it in the original?
          The article was already in our press in full translation. Although I will write to you right now that all American missiles are under Russian control and not one can take off.
          This is called trash, not a picture.
          1. sergey261180
            sergey261180 5 November 2013 08: 16
            +1
            Well I highlighted there. They gave attendants and invited them to their place so that they no longer work on nuclear weapons. And then we wonder why the "protons" and "maces" have become the wrong system ?! And we are sure that after such material assistance, the warhead will work in general, and will not hit the ground in the event of an hour X. And since then, no one has conducted tests by the way.
            1. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 5 November 2013 08: 20
              +2
              Quote: sergey261180
              They gave grandmothers and invited them to themselves so that they no longer work on nuclear weapons.

              But nothing that four rockets the other day launched or is it so, an accident?
              Quote: sergey261180
              ! And we are sure that after such material assistance the warhead will work in general

              What more help, to whom? What are you talking about? Do not read any garbage!
            2. Sunjar
              Sunjar 5 November 2013 09: 32
              +1
              sergey261180, if that were true, then the United States would not have to reckon with us, and Syria would have been out of print for a long time. Yes, a lot of things were sawn, but what is available is quite enough to destroy any state.

              There is also information that when the USSR was destroyed, then special. all nuclear weapons were screwed up, and the separated republics (which had warheads) were left empty blanks with a radioactive background so that they thought that everything was normal.
    2. Russ69
      Russ69 5 November 2013 10: 24
      0
      Quote: sergey261180
      Will they exchange nuclear warheads for shit bombs?

      Moreover, there are stools. The processing of uranium from warheads began in 1993, sort of. After the reduction of the nuclear arsenal (I do not remember the name). Now this program is collapsing, the last batch, it seems they have already been shipped ...
      And the United States, by the way, now has problems in this regard. While they used our raw materials, they partially froze their production. And now, in order to run it will be needed, again a lot of money ...
  8. Sunjar
    Sunjar 5 November 2013 07: 29
    +1
    The information itself is depressing, but the article put a plus for the adequacy of the author. Which body, damn it, replace a potent drug with a weaker one? It would be alright to switch to a new drug, so that with the same analgesic effect, but not so detrimental to the respiratory system. On the face of state. order or something like that.
  9. Alikovo
    Alikovo 5 November 2013 07: 30
    +3
    I do not understand medicine, but such actions must be punished.
    1. gansik
      gansik 5 November 2013 07: 41
      +3
      It’s not a punishment, it smells like retribution!
  10. makarov
    makarov 5 November 2013 07: 33
    +1
    I am not a doctor either, but I can share my own feelings. After promedol and local anesthesia, while removing the splinter, I felt the fullness of pain, just the state was paralyzed, and after the operation I was terribly thirsty. The second time, the wound was stitched up and without delay and without anesthesia, that is, "live". So, the feeling of pain was equally comparable.
    1. rate
      rate 5 November 2013 09: 36
      +4
      There is pain with promedol, but it somehow goes by. Therefore, different wounds were felt equally in perception: darning a wound, and much more difficult extraction of a fragment.
      Once again: the injuries are different, and the pain is the same because the promedol leveled the severity of the operation to extract the fragment. If it was sewn up, then it was evaluated adequately to the situation. the wound is slight. I'm a doctor.
    2. Asan Ata
      Asan Ata 5 November 2013 15: 04
      0
      Similarly, when abdominal, promedol was injected into three weights, it didn’t help, they cut it like that, probably without anesthesia for 3.5 hours. Then I realized that it’s possible, the motor would be fine.))))
  11. mogus
    mogus 5 November 2013 07: 57
    0
    Quote: sergey261180
    The Taburetkin case continues to live. At first they wanted to exchange normal tanks for light wheeled ones, right now promedol for vitamins, then what? Will they exchange nuclear warheads for shit bombs? And although the campaign has already changed


    They sold uranium for nothing - thanks to EBN, there's nothing to be done. But now in the nuclear weapons charges they use plutonium, which is needed much less than uranium, with comparable power.
  12. waisson
    waisson 5 November 2013 08: 12
    +2
    it is a pity that they have not replaced it with asperin, there are no words, only feelings and all through b ...... t
    1. zvereok
      zvereok 5 November 2013 14: 58
      0
      Quote: waisson
      it is a pity that they have not replaced it with asperin, there are no words, only feelings and all through b ...... t


      Probably they wanted to replace with arbidol, but did not have time, the lady was transferred to supervise bribes.

      PS: All this is good, but when will they put Serdyukov?
  13. haralaan
    haralaan 5 November 2013 08: 21
    +5
    Promedol must be left. It will not be replaced by any non-narcotic analgesic. Ibuprofen is added as a supplement to promedol. I have not heard of pro-drug addicts. About heroin more than enough. Duck heroin promedol like a seed. Five times a large dose should be given to relieve withdrawal symptoms.
    1. vanaheym
      vanaheym 5 November 2013 09: 07
      +2
      Quote: haralaan
      Promedol must be left. It will not be replaced by any non-narcotic analgesic.

      A single dose of promedol - 50 mg, daily - 200 mg.
      A single dose of lornoxicam (xefocam), despite the fact that they do not sit on it, to achieve a similar effect - 8 mg, daily - 16 mg.
      It is quite possible to be without delay.
      Quote: haralaan
      I have not heard of pro-drug addicts. About heroin more than enough. Duck heroin promedol like a seed.

      Although there are more than enough heroin addicts not because promedol is weaker for them, but because the synthesis of gerycha is much simpler and can be performed at home in the form of a shirk.
      Promedol can’t be done like this, there is a much more complicated process and other reagents are needed, given its completely synthetic origin.
      1. ARS56
        ARS56 5 November 2013 11: 18
        +4
        So what's in the first aid kit? Lornoxicam or ibuprofen? The point is that under the guise of combating drug addiction, a crime has been committed. It is a crime against those who are obliged to risk their lives and health. Drug dealers must be destroyed and drug addicts must be imprisoned and treated forcibly. And people who find themselves in a critical situation should not suffer and die from the next incompetence or criminal intent of "effective managers".
        1. Slavs69
          Slavs69 5 November 2013 20: 40
          0
          At the moment, in my medicine cabinet: a dressing bag (not IPP), a life-saving blanket, a tourniquet. ALL! This is the new norm of the Ministry of Internal Affairs! The medical unit additionally supplied Ketorol in ampoules. ALL! This is for a business trip to TFR.
  14. Revolver
    Revolver 5 November 2013 08: 43
    +3
    I don’t know how in the American armed forces, but it’s hardly much different than in civil medicine. And drugs are prescribed in civilian terms, maybe not very willingly (there are abuses, and doctors prescribing the case are not deprived of a license if they catch it), but if there is a formal indication, then it’s pretty widespread. Even dentists have the right to prescribe them after tooth extraction, other operations in the mouth, and even removal of nerves [root canal]. In surgery, oxycodone, hydrocodone, and their derivatives such as percocet (oxycodone mixed with acetaminophen) or Vicodin (hydrocodone with acetaminophen) are very widely used as postoperative painkillers. Also prescribed for pain such as pinched nerves, and much more. And after serious operations they give intravenous morphine, in particular, my wife was given after cesarean. Well, of course, with oncology - it is believed that the patient is more likely to die of cancer than is spared, and there’s no reason to suffer in vain, so they don’t skimp on serious doses. In particular, after an operation to assemble a broken leg, they prescribed oxycodone 10mg, and oncological and 200mg are prescribed, based on the tablet every 4 hours.
    How much is? I don’t know, my insurance covers the whole cost, I pay only $ 10 per package (the so-called copay).
    Nevertheless, despite all the restrictions, narcotic drugs enter the black market, and are valued higher than any heroin, cocaine, or ecstasy, because the drug is of high quality, without impurities, the exact dose is not to be overdone by accident.
    And promedol is not included in the list of approved drugs at all.
  15. ZU-23
    ZU-23 5 November 2013 09: 22
    0
    In general, promedol taxis)))
  16. leon-iv
    leon-iv 5 November 2013 09: 31
    0
    whoa whoa guys take it easy
    It is necessary to separate the grain from the chaff.
    Some kind of weirdo with the letter M decided back in Soviet times that with promedol you can shave and get a narcotic effect. According to intelligence, to withdraw withdrawal from heroin in Afghanistan back in the 80s.
    Further Nobody will refuse painkillers. But they should be in the hands of an EXPERIENCED person at least a nurse in peacetime. No pain during pain. And so papaverine-analgin-diphenhydramine for everyday use is nothing like that. For ignorance promedol can greatly harm. For different pains are affected by different analgesics.
  17. serge
    serge 5 November 2013 09: 56
    +3
    Let the fools pray to God, so they will hurt their foreheads. Ibuprofen is almost the same as aspirin. Febrifuge. The same thing has long been happening in civil medicine. Cancer patients die in terrible agony. Three hundred thousand people die of cancer every year in Russia. In fact, these patients are tortured before death, without giving them narcotic analgesics, even to the minimum extent necessary. Our ancestors were more merciful and did not torture their neighbors before leaving for a better world, prohibiting opiates in the treatment of seriously ill and wounded. The fight against drug trafficking should not go so far as idiocy. The Drug Enforcement Service replaces the work that it really needs to do, pushing through bureaucratic troubles that formally show the success of the Federal Drug Control Service, but actually complicate the treatment of seriously ill patients and replace the real fight against drug fraud. In fact, replacing narcotic analgesics with antipyretic drugs is simply the removal of pain medication from the treatment of severe patients. This is not a mockery, this is a crime.
    1. leon-iv
      leon-iv 5 November 2013 10: 03
      +1
      Nobody seized them. Intended use. Now I specifically asked our young fighter he is working on an ambulance while he is studying. They have narcotic painkillers prescribed as prescribed.
  18. leon-iv
    leon-iv 5 November 2013 10: 01
    0
    I'd love to hear here Pupyrchatogo he is like a doctor.
  19. Stinger
    Stinger 5 November 2013 10: 08
    0
    I don’t see anything surprising in the optimization of such first-aid kits. The first one. Whoever led the Ministry of Health recently! There, only Repair was missing. The second one. Whoever directed the Ministry of Defense! And finally, who writes the laws. Legal and economic brains are not able to comprehend that their activity should not be aimed at the realization of their crazy ideas, but for the benefit of man. In the fight against hazing, the army was actually destroyed. In the fight against bribes, they destroyed production. In the fight against drug addiction, medicine is destroyed. The principle is the same for everyone. Do not listen to experts and common sense. There is only one answer to all the suggestions of specialists: you, offer what you want, and we know what to do.
    And the intellect of these figures touches. From Ivanov’s latest speech on bribe takers: of the 20 billion fines imposed on them by the courts, only 20 million were paid, which is 1 percent! But any student will say that it is 0,1 percent.
  20. Sobol
    Sobol 5 November 2013 10: 37
    0
    Quote: GES
    Do not be afraid for their children, I am sure that the child of "optimizers" will not hear the word army even in a nightmare.


    May these "children" hear about the Army. Dads and mothers will tell you how to steal a fatter piece from the army budget. And on the subject - if they began to change promedol in army first-aid kits, then it should not be changed for any crap, but for a modern and most effective means.
  21. IRBIS
    IRBIS 5 November 2013 10: 39
    +5
    I have experience using promedol when injuring in a combat situation. Removing it from an individual first-aid kit is complete nonsense. Such means should be carried by every fighter, and not just by medical specialists who cannot be reached on the battlefield.
    1. leon-iv
      leon-iv 5 November 2013 10: 52
      0
      Damn again I repeat in the fighting promedol will be in first-aid kits. In everyday service, he except the SSovtsu nafig did not fall to anyone. For they will apply in the case and without it. But understanding even at the embryonic level the essence of the processes.
      1. ARS56
        ARS56 5 November 2013 11: 25
        0
        That is, the enemy will personally warn you in advance about the start of hostilities? Or does ibuprofen have a wonderful ability to turn into a modern effective pain reliever when the wounded cry?
        1. leon-iv
          leon-iv 5 November 2013 11: 39
          0
          That is, the enemy will personally warn you in advance about the start of hostilities?

          usually yes, but what?
          Or does ibuprofen have a wonderful ability to turn into a modern effective pain reliever when the wounded cry?

          Read carefully what I wrote? Where did I propose to refuse Promedol? In peacetime, I proposed to entrust its use to specialists.
  22. Garrin
    Garrin 5 November 2013 10: 41
    +1
    I'm not a medic. The point of view of a soldier.

    I completely share. It’s tested on itself.
  23. Bort radist
    Bort radist 5 November 2013 10: 44
    +1
    I remember that in the 70s the first time I boarded the AN-12, the inscription on the first-aid kit Opium rushed. But even then the place was empty. In general, in our time, with painkillers a lot of progress, according to my own feelings. A tooth was removed the other day. They asked ours or imported. I asked for the second. No pain and most of all surprised that the pain did not appear. It didn’t go away simply. Save with .. even on the torment of soldiers.
  24. Vasia kruger
    Vasia kruger 5 November 2013 11: 01
    +1
    Do not stop there. Replace the bandages with a band-aid (skin-colored with cubs), replace the styptic with sugar (as with a bonaparte) ... Remove Ibuprofen and replace it with a baton.

    This is irony ... if that.
  25. Soviet_Union
    Soviet_Union 5 November 2013 11: 20
    0
    Hardly anyone thinks about wounded soldiers now. In the first place - economic feasibility, and maybe something else, even more terrible. (for example: all promedol for export, to foreign armies, but its own will cost, etc.). I exaggerate of course, and I hope that military medicine knows what it is doing.
  26. George
    George 5 November 2013 11: 22
    +2
    Hello everyone
    "Until now, the equipment was equipped with a narcotic analgesic for the prevention of pain shock, this is a syringe tube with paramidol. This is an opioid drug that affects as a side effect, affects the respiratory centers. Now ibuprenorphine will be supplied to the supply, this drug has less effect, practically does not affect respiratory centers, "says Oleg Mustaev, associate professor of the Department of Military Medical Supply and Pharmacy at the Kirov Military Medical Academy.

    Well, the highlight of the program:
    The main exposition of the exhibition of military medicine is field dentistry on wheels, which consists of two parts: the laboratory and the dental office itself. It is still presented in a single copy in Volgograd, in the South Federal District, but very soon, next year it is planned to introduce such a mobile clinic in all federal districts.

    "A patient comes, sits down in a chair, we have everything to provide this patient with qualified dental care in full, from panoramic images, X-ray targeted images, rational prosthetics and ending with outpatient surgical care," says the head of the PPSC, major of the medical service Denis Chernyshev.

    See the original material at http://www.1tv.ru/news/health/245028

    Joke on the topic:
    -What kind of anesthesia do you need? Expensive or cheap?
    - Yes, I would be cheaper ...
    - Hush, Little Baby, Do not Say a Word .
  27. Algor73
    Algor73 5 November 2013 11: 35
    0
    "... I would like to see the doctor himself, if he was in the place of this fighter with an injection of ibuprofen before evacuation from the battlefield ...". And where is the doctor? It was not he who wrote the instructions, he was not consulted. And he will prick what is. But the withdrawal of promedol is a fight against drug addiction. And as always, it is ineffective.
  28. Ezhaak
    Ezhaak 5 November 2013 11: 38
    +1
    A long time ago, doctors and pharmacists had a rule. Often, they experienced the invented medications created by them. From my point of view, this is a good undertaking by ancient physicians to be put into practice. He suggested - experience the action on yourself, on your own skin, on your family. Compare what the consequences will be, evaluate and implement everything after that!
    No irony, no sarcasm !!!
  29. Irtysh
    Irtysh 5 November 2013 12: 09
    +2
    In our country, promedol was removed from first-aid kits under normal conditions. Before exits, the first-aid kits were fully equipped. After the release, the special officer was given written reports for each tube used.
  30. Peaceful military
    Peaceful military 5 November 2013 12: 10
    0
    As it has already become usual, liberalists, whatever they touch, everything is mutilated right there. It is strange that they did not destroy such a thing as military field medicine ... there are hospitals ... fool
  31. ed65b
    ed65b 5 November 2013 12: 11
    +5
    In Chechnya, a kid was demolished by a fragment of a skull a piece of a skull; survived. He crushed his left elbow himself, his hand hung on his skin, the promedy helped until they brought him to the hospital. And the Surgeon Uzbek (ready to kiss his legs so far) has collected it for me, I use it.
  32. saygon66
    saygon66 5 November 2013 13: 01
    0
    -There is such a thing: Calypsol (mild - sambrevin and ketalar, it seems) It will relieve pain no worse than promedol, and the victim is conscious, is able to answer the doctor's questions ... It is impossible to earn addiction - the most terrible "withdrawal"! Checked ...
    1. sso-xnumx
      sso-xnumx 5 November 2013 22: 42
      0
      these are imported drugs. respectively: a production license from the developer, a certificate for compliance with production conditions from Roszdravnadzor, a production permit from the Federal Drug Control Service, a certificate of product compliance from the Ministry of Health, a license for the right to sell (but who will buy?), in general, "... I'll make more money on cats ... "
  33. MahsusNazar
    MahsusNazar 5 November 2013 13: 36
    +3
    I'm not a medic, but ...
    Being an instructor, at one time, he was very interested in what would save the wounded.
    So, there are only three factors:
    - anesthesia !!!!
    - stop bleeding;
    - speedy immobilization;
    As we see, the prevention of pain shock in the first place.
    Once I had a chance to talk with a resuscitator, drove us 65 km., So I talked for more than an hour.
    So he talked about his uncle, an infantryman in the Second World War, got a fragmentation tangent in his stomach, and his intestines fell out. It was fortunate that the German orderly man who had been killed was near, the use of morphine made it possible to remove the belt painlessly, deploy the tunic back to front, and, having gathered the guts in the gymnast, belted. He lay all day under the tank, waited for the orderlies and survived after the operation.
  34. Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 5 November 2013 13: 38
    0
    A good illustration of the same eternal situation - in peacetime, the army dramatically loses its parameters, in fact it is being poured. Those who are fighting all the same at the time suffer the most ...
    The fact is that when deciding on the army, officials are guided by two packages of reasons that can be reduced to two maxims. 1. The security of my homeland. 2. The safety of my ass.
    In peaceful (albeit relatively) time, the second reason begins to undoubtedly prevail over the first! A relatively small "epidemic" of traumatic injuries imperatively orders the withdrawal of drugs containing drugs from circulation in order to remove the smut in their protection, prevention, work with people ... in general, work less, get more. Hundreds of deaths from painful shock do not bother officials at all, for these people there is a "cozy" graph - combat losses. They will not be responsible for combat losses, they will punish the commander (even if he is Suvorov) and still collect profit for that. But the worries about drug addicts ... that's why my head constantly hurts. Well, someone "genius" hurried in advance, with the tacit but powerful support of the majority of officials of the Ministry of Defense.
  35. SPLV
    SPLV 5 November 2013 13: 53
    +2
    Even interesting. The article mentions ibuprofen, and only one comment mentions buprenorphine (called "ibuprenorphine"). I myself have contributed to the discussion above. I just don't want to check even the correctness of the information. If the author of the article is mistaken, then the discussion and the eggs are not worth a damn. If the author is right, then everything has been said. It's sad.
    1. George
      George 5 November 2013 17: 26
      0
      Quote: SPLV
      Even interesting. The article mentions ibuprofen, and only one comment mentions buprenorphine (called "ibuprenorphine"). I myself have contributed to the discussion above. I just don't want to check even the correctness of the information. If the author of the article is mistaken, then the discussion and the eggs are not worth a damn. If the author is right, then everything has been said. It's sad.

      Most likely the author confused.
      Buprenorphine - the strongest drug, in chemical. composition similar to morphine, but 30 times more powerful than it in terms of analgesic effect. The advantage of buprenorphine is a longer duration of pain. action compared to morphine - 6-8 hours.
      In addition, it is less toxic and causes much less dependence.
      http://www.russlav.ru/narkotik/byprenorfin.html
    2. aleshka
      aleshka 5 November 2013 17: 36
      0
      all the same, probably "buprenorphine" because ibuprofen instead of promedol, it's not even funny!
      1. George
        George 5 November 2013 19: 47
        0
        Quote: Alesha
        all the same, probably "buprenorphine" because ibuprofen instead of promedol, it's not even funny!

        Exactly.
        There is a link above.
        "Until now, the equipment was equipped with a narcotic analgesic for the prevention of pain shock, this is a syringe tube with paramidol. This is an opioid drug that has a side effect, affects the respiratory centers. Now the supply will be supplied ibuprenorphine, this drug has less effect, practically does not affect the respiratory centers, "says Oleg Mustaev, associate professor of the Department of Military Medical Supply and Pharmacy at the Kirov Military Medical Academy.
  36. PSih2097
    PSih2097 5 November 2013 14: 55
    0
    as for me, it’s better:
    Employees of the University of Pasteur (France) managed to isolate a protein called opiorphin from human saliva and prove its analgesic properties in animal experiments.

    The study report is published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

    During the experiment, scientists administered opiorphin to rats suffering from either chronic pain caused by chemicals or acute pain after mechanical damage. The introduction of a new substance at the rate of 1 milligram per kilogram of body weight completely relieved the animals from pain. A similar effect was achieved only after applying a 6-fold higher dose of morphine.

    The exact mechanism of action of opiorphin remains unknown, but it is known that this substance can slow down the breakdown of enkephalins, morphine-like neuropeptides in the body, that control the reaction of the central nervous system to pain impulses.

    Research Project Coordinator Professor Catherine Rougeot does not rule out that further study of the role of opiorphin in the human body over time will lead to the creation of a new class of powerful pain medications.

    Commenting on a study by French colleagues for the BBC, English neuroscientist John Wood called the discovery of anesthetic protein in human saliva very interesting. According to Wood, earlier compounds that slow the breakdown of enkephalins were found in the saliva of cows and rats.

    At the same time, attempts to create drugs acting on the same principle were unsuccessful, and it was also not possible to establish whether these proteins actually participate in the control of pain in mammals. Thus, the clinical significance of this study remains unconfirmed, the British scientist believes.

    and no getting used to ...
  37. Rustam009
    Rustam009 5 November 2013 15: 16
    +5
    A sore subject for health care. Here I disagree with the author. If the replacement was made, it was not through the fault of the doctors, but through the fault of the FSKN, allegedly to combat illegal traffic. I faced this problem. At work, he introduced the child to an age dose of promedol during the operation, poured the remainder of 0,5 ml. After 2 years, fat-headed drug control officers come with a check and listen to my loss (0,5 ml !!!). They start a criminal case under Article 228, three times they drag me to court, shaking all my nerves, and as a result, they close the case with the wording “for active repentance”. Spun a whole judicial machine (caught the drug lord in my face) As long as there is such an attitude, there will be such absurdity.
    1. novobranets
      novobranets 5 November 2013 19: 15
      +1
      Quote: Rustam09
      As long as there is such an attitude, there will be such absurdity.
      Our long-suffering land does not go idly.
  38. Volkhov
    Volkhov 5 November 2013 15: 53
    0
    In Syria, now the war, which took the sea of ​​weapons from the Russian Federation, really did not go there and the supply of drugs? Fatigue pills (Keptagon) are being driven there by the millions, 500 batches are being detained, is there really no need for promedol? Civilian drugs come from Western countries, and from here - in military packaging.
    After all, they did not plan such a scale and duration of hostilities, so the shortage is made up from stocks. America, the EU and Israel will not give up their NZ, on the contrary, they are increasing - the donor, as always, is the Russian Federation.
  39. jagdpanzer
    jagdpanzer 5 November 2013 17: 41
    0
    would have put a piece of paper with a prayer instead of promedol, a joke of course, but ibuprofen is definitely not needed there
  40. Arkan
    Arkan 5 November 2013 18: 37
    0
    UFSKN, go too far.
  41. mithridate
    mithridate 5 November 2013 18: 42
    0
    maybe another wrecking?
  42. Demetrius
    Demetrius 5 November 2013 20: 12
    0
    Quote: jagdpanzer
    would have put a piece of paper with a prayer instead of promedol, a joke of course, but ibuprofen is definitely not needed there

    Yeah, and an icon to enhance the effect !!!
  43. masterovoy
    masterovoy 5 November 2013 21: 34
    0
    I, in due time, were rescued by a prowl.
  44. a.hamster55
    a.hamster55 5 November 2013 21: 48
    0
    All point - said IBUPROFEN and no EBUPROFEN! And in general, only the SENIOR INSTRUCTOR can be smarter than the ORDER! fellow
  45. Lukich
    Lukich 5 November 2013 22: 00
    0
    ... on the battlefield, the first - from blood loss and the second - from pain shock, die, these are the two main causes of death in the first minutes after being wounded ...
  46. Garrin
    Garrin 5 November 2013 22: 13
    +2
    Guys, a dispute about anything. Each has its own pain threshold. Someone will fall into someone from a scratch, and someone with a torn limb or twisted intestines will erase their teeth to the roots. But a syringe tube of promidol in such situations is a sacred thing and to deprive a person of a means to alleviate suffering is a crime.
  47. akm8226
    akm8226 6 November 2013 00: 28
    0
    What ... came up with this nonsense ... what kind of idiocy?
  48. Humpty
    Humpty 6 November 2013 05: 06
    0
    Promedol or omnopon are essential medicines. Taking them away is not stupidity, but obvious sabotage and sabotage. It is necessary to find out who promoted this "idea", to judge and plant.
    By the way, at the expense of ibuprofen, this tool reduces pain in the joints, bones of the teeth. For this, it is quite suitable, but not of Russian production. Russian ibuprofen is completely ineffective. To reduce toothache you need to gobble it up five tablets at a time.
    With the same success, it is possible to intelligently replace promedol with castor oil.
  49. koleka
    23 March 2014 11: 56
    0
    Sorry guys. An error has occurred. I watched the video, Promedol changed to buprenorphine.
    here is the link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbD5-sWEqjs