Military Review

The world's first stealth warships: Visby Corvettes (Sweden)

102
Over the past decades, the so-called. stealth technology. A set of measures aimed at reducing the visibility of equipment for radar stations can significantly increase the combat effectiveness of an airplane or ship. Moreover, in the case of aviation the use of stealth technologies often leads to the "wrong" aerodynamic appearance of the aircraft. Warships, in turn, are not so demanding on the surface architecture. Therefore, in recent years, a large number of warship projects have appeared, in which measures to reduce visibility for the radar are used to one degree or another.




While some states are using only some technical solutions or are preparing to build full-fledged stealth ships, Sweden is already using several corvettes, designed with a view to reducing visibility to the maximum. Cornets of the Visby project ("Visby") are few - only five such ships have been built. Nevertheless, they combine a number of original measures that allow solving a number of combat missions with minimal risk of being detected.

The development of the Visby project was preceded by experiments designed to study stealth technologies and their prospects in the military shipbuilding business. At the end of the eighties, the Swedish industry built a Smyge skeg-type hovercraft. A small ship (full displacement of about 140 tons) allowed to determine the future of several new technologies, as well as to work out some elements of the appearance of promising warships. A large number of developments obtained during the Smyge project were later used in the Visby project.

In the early nineties, the Swedish Defense Ministry was going to create two ship projects at once: YSS (Ytstridsfartyg Större - “Big Warship”) and YSM (Ytstridsfartyg Mindre - “Small Warship”). However, shortly after the start of work, the projects were combined in order to save. Further work was carried out by Kockums in the framework of the YS2000 project (Ytstridsfartyg 2000 “2000's warship”). Later, the project received a new name corresponding to the name of the lead ship - Visby. Due to the merger of the two projects, the YS2000 ships had to perform a wide range of tasks: from the search for submarines and the attack of surface targets to the setting of minefields and patrol service.



The YS2000 / Visby project was completed in the mid-nineties. It used a number of new technologies, not only for Swedish, but also for world shipbuilding. In February, 1996, the laying of the lead ship, named Visby, took place. The ship was launched in the 2000 year and was on trial until 2005. Five new corvettes were laid from 1997 to 1999 year, however the construction of the last of them (Uddevalla) was soon canceled. In 2009, the second and third ships of the Helsingborg and Härnösand project were accepted into the Swedish Navy. Two newer corvettes, Nyköping and Karlstad, are still being tested.

Employees of the company Kockums managed to create the first in the world combat ship, fully using stealth technology. The corvette turned out to be relatively small: the total length of the 72 meter, the maximum width - 10,4 m, the draft - about 2,4 m. Thanks to the use of new technologies, the Swedish shipbuilders were able to reduce the weight of the structure. The full displacement of the lead ship Visby does not exceed 640 tons.

The main factor that made it possible to reduce the weight of the structure was the original composite material from which a number of important parts of the structure were made. As a base material for the manufacture of the hull and superstructure, a set of polymers reinforced with carbon fiber and vinyl was chosen. In the course of long-term studies, Swedish specialists managed to find a suitable composite for use, providing a light weight of the structure (twice as light as a similar structure made of metal), high rigidity and impact resistance. At the same time, one of the main reasons for using a composite material was its low reflectivity. The frame of the ship was assembled from metal parts.



The hull and superstructure of the Visby corvette are made in the form of a monoblock: the surface part of the hull smoothly passes into the superstructure without unnecessary details that can increase the visibility of the ship. The surface of the ship is a combination of mating flat panels of various shapes. The contours of the underwater part are made “traditional” because they do not affect the visibility for radar systems. A casing is provided on the tank of the ship, covering the artillery from radiation from the radar. In the middle part of the body is placed superstructure of characteristic shape. On the roof of the superstructure there is an antenna mast, covered with a radio transparent cover. The stern of the hull is reserved for a landing site about 20 meters long. All weapons systems as well as mooring equipment are placed inside the hull or superstructure and are covered with shields made of the same materials as the hull.

The internal volume of the hull of the Visby project ships is divided into eight compartments with watertight bulkheads. Cabins and cockpits of the crew, sanitary facilities, as well as a nasal diesel generator, hydroacoustic station and thruster are located in the three bow compartments. On the different decks in the fourth compartment there are a mess-room and a dining room, a galley with a storeroom, as well as the main command post. It is noteworthy that the premises of the officers' cabin are also used as an infirmary. In the volumes of the fifth compartment are various weapons systems and auxiliary equipment. In addition, in the fifth compartment is the control post of the main power plant and a tank for aviation fuel. In the hold from the sixth to the eighth compartments various equipment of the main power plant is located. The upper deck is reserved for torpedo tubes and the volume for the necessary armament. If necessary, a helicopter hangar can be equipped in the stern of the ship.

The main power plant of the Corvettes of the Visby project is made according to the CODOG system and uses several types of engines. In the sixth compartment there are two diesel engines MTU 16V 2000 N90 with a capacity of about 1770 hp. each. To reduce noise, the engines are mounted on damping devices. Diesel engines are used when driving at economical speeds on the order of 15 knots. To accelerate to maximum speed, the ship can use four Vericor TF50A gas-turbine engines with a total power of 16000 kW (approximately 21750 hp) installed in the aft compartments. With maximum engine power, the Visby Corvette can accelerate to 35 nodes. Sailing range - up to 2500 miles.



The torque of the engines through the gearbox is transmitted to the two jet propulsion KaMeWa 125 SII. At a speed of 15 knots, the water jet provides about twice the noise level compared to traditional propellers. Water jet helps to reduce the acoustic visibility of the ship. In addition, measures have been taken that reduce the visibility of the corvette in the infrared range. The exhaust gases of all six engines are discharged through a pipe in the stern of the ship, located as close as possible to the water.

The maneuverability of the ship is provided by swiveling nozzles of water cannons, as well as two rudders mounted behind them. The latter allow you to maneuver with greater efficiency at low speeds. In addition, a bow thruster HRP 200-65 is provided in the nose section of the Visby corvettes.

All five Visby corvettes initially had a common set of radio-electronic equipment. The three-coordinate radar station Ericsson Sea Giraffe AMB is used as the primary means of target detection. The characteristics of this radar allow you to search for targets and work in target designation mode. The station can detect small air targets like anti-ship missiles at a distance of 70-80 kilometers. To counter the enemy's electronic systems, ships are equipped with a multi-range EW complex.



The CETRIS C3 combat information management system (CICS) is based on two main subsystems: the Saab Systems 9LV mk3E armament control complex and the MAST information support system. All components of the information management system are based on modern digital components. For the convenience of transmitting orders and instructions on ships like Visby for the first time in world practice, a special electronic system has been applied. Any crew member, using a special terminal, can receive in electronic form all the documents to which he has access. A communication system with other ships and command is similarly constructed.

The latest Swedish corvettes can independently search for enemy submarines. For this, they are equipped with a CDC Hydra hydroacoustic complex. The complex includes a passive towed hydroacoustic station, as well as an active type station that is lowered and located in the hull. In addition, the ship carries several remote-controlled vehicles that can be used to search for submarines. Hydroacoustic complex collects information from all stations and transmits data on detected targets to the control system weapons. Of particular interest is the station installed in the forward part of the ship hull. Having a relatively narrow beam, it can be used to search for sea mines.

When creating a complex of weapons of corvettes of the type Visby, the authors of the project provided for the possibility of "specialization" of a ship to perform specific tasks. In this case, all ships carry several common weapons systems. Before the superstructure, a Bofors 57 mm Mk3 artillery mount is installed on the corvettes with an automatic 57 caliber mm gun. This gun is capable of firing at a rate of up to 220 shots per minute and hit targets at a range of up to 10-11 km. High-explosive fragmentation projectiles for the gun are equipped with a controlled remote fuse, which allows to detonate the ammunition at the right time and “cover” the target with fragments. This, in particular, compensates for the relatively small caliber of the gun. In the stowed position, the artillery installation is located under the shielding casing of composite materials.

The design features of the Visby ships allowed them to be equipped with various weapons, in accordance with the wishes of the naval forces of Sweden. So, the first four ships (from Visby to Nyköping) are intended to search for submarines and sea mines, and also must accompany escorts. In this regard, the corvettes carry universal torpedo tubes. This armament is located in the stern of the ship and in the stowed position is closed by guards that do not protrude beyond the hull. In the forward part of the hull, next to the artillery installation, there are eight Alecto jet-bombs, which can use anti-submarine and anti-torpedo ammunition. The control system of the Alecto complex, working in conjunction with the ship's BIOS, allows you to simultaneously repel torpedo attacks from two directions.

The fifth ship of the Visby type (Karlstad) has a different set of weapons. It is assumed that this corvette will detect and attack enemy ships, for which it carries the corresponding guided missile weapons. Instead of torpedo tubes in the stern of the ship, there are launchers of anti-ship missiles Saab Bofors Dynamics RBS 15 Mk2. The use of such weapons will allow the Karlstad corvette to attack enemy ships at a distance of 200 kilometers. In addition, next to the anti-ship missile launchers, it is planned to install the Saab Bofors Dynamics RBS 23 BAMSE anti-aircraft missile system with vertical-start ammunition. The use of this air defense system will help protect the ship from aviation and enemy missiles in a radius of 15 km. There is information about the placement in the rear part of the corvette automatic gun caliber 30 mm.



Anti-submarine Visby corvettes can carry one Augusta A109 helicopter with the appropriate electronic equipment. If necessary, the helicopter can land on any of the ships of the series, but the hangar is only available on three of them: Helsingborg, Härnösand and Nyköping. In addition to the helicopter, the ships carry fuel and ammunition necessary to destroy enemy submarines.

According to reports, the Visby corvette radioelectronic complex is designed in such a way that the crew can search and attack targets without including any emitters. If necessary, ships can receive external target designation. It should be noted that the decrease in radar, infrared and acoustic visibility has a good effect on the actual characteristics of the latest Swedish corvettes. A number of sources mention that modern radar stations in calm can detect the Visby ship at a distance of no more than 20-22 kilometers. For waves, the detection distance is reduced to 11-13 km. Thus, using passive means of detection, the corvette can gain a great advantage over the enemy. In addition, the stated characteristics of electronic systems and weapons suggest that the use of radar or active sonar station does not reduce the combat potential of the corvettes. Thus, the detection range of the Ericsson Sea Giraffe AMB radar and the firing range of Saab Bofors Dynamics RBS 15 Mk2 missiles near 200 km in theory allows the latter of the Visby corvettes to attack enemy ships before they can detect it.



In the spring of 2012, Saab completed the renovation and modernization of the lead ship for the Visby project, commissioned by the Swedish Ministry of Defense. During the upgrade, the ship received about 60 various equipment and weapon upgrades. In particular, the systems of detection and communication, anti-submarine weapons, as well as equipment designed to work with helicopters were refined. In 2014, it is expected to complete a similar modernization of other anti-submarine corvettes.

Despite its modest size and small number, Visby-type corvettes are among the most interesting and high-tech ships in the world. In addition, during this project, Swedish shipbuilders were the first in the world to create and build a series of warships with extensive use of stealth technology. The claimed features of the corvettes look interesting and attract attention. However, the combat capabilities of the five ships raise some questions. Over the past years, Visby project corvettes in the ranks of the project have participated only in exercises and have never been able to show their potential in real operations. However, in this case, they remain the world's first invisible warships.


On the materials of the sites:
http://naval-technology.com/
http://globalsecurity.org/
http://kockums.se/
http://alternathistory.org.ua/
http://militaryfactory.com/
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  1. igordok
    igordok 31 October 2013 08: 41
    +1
    All five Visby project corvettes initially had a common set of electronic equipment. The three-coordinate radar station Ericsson Sea Giraffe AMB is used as the main target detection tool. The characteristics of this radar make it possible to search for targets and operate in target designation mode. The station can find small air targets like anti-ship missiles at distances up to 70-80 kilometers. To counter the enemy’s electronic systems, the ships are equipped with an electronic warfare complex, the various elements of which are responsible for operating in different ranges.

    With all this, they think they are invisible?
    1. Col.
      Col. 31 October 2013 11: 26
      +7
      Quote: igordok
      With all this, they think they are invisible?


      There are no ships (planes) invisible in the literal sense of the word. This is a common term replicated by journalists. In fact, it must be understood as a decrease in the EPR of the object, leading to a decrease in the range of its detection. That's all.
      1. SkiF_RnD
        SkiF_RnD 31 October 2013 15: 53
        +2
        In addition to reducing the detection range, there is a problem of confident capture of such an ARGSN anti-ship missile ship. After all, the capabilities of an anti-ship missile are much more modest than the means of capturing and tracking surface targets on aircraft and ships. Considering the small size of the corvette and the stealth layout, some kind of "Harpoon" or X-35 may simply miss. Recall at least the use of "Harpoons" by the US Navy in Operation Praying Mantis.
        1. Abracadabra
          Abracadabra 31 October 2013 23: 59
          0
          Why do they write that only the Swedes did this? If I’m not mistaken, besides the Swedes, Americans and others also acquire stelt boats.
        2. Abracadabra
          Abracadabra 1 November 2013 00: 00
          +1
          Here's another one- US Navy Sea Shadow stealth
          1. Tyumen
            Tyumen 2 November 2013 00: 01
            +1
            This project was closed back in the 90s.
  2. Alexei
    Alexei 31 October 2013 09: 29
    +2
    And in the photographs only the ships accompanying him are visible, but he himself is not visible - he is invisible. winked
  3. tlauicol
    tlauicol 31 October 2013 09: 34
    12
    Well, right ... now comments will be raining down on the principle: if we don’t have this, then Visby is Mr. But. And the pluses do not forget each other ..
    This is a good ship.
    1. Geisenberg
      Geisenberg 1 November 2013 00: 41
      +1
      Quote: Tlauicol
      Well, right ... now comments will be raining down on the principle: if we don’t have this, then Visby is Mr. But. And the pluses do not forget each other ..
      This is a good ship.


      Good or not operation will show. Here we can firmly say - well done Swedes, they took and without rivets riveted stealth, and even in the series. Whether it is steals or not, the technologies are rolling back the very ones. They simply and tastefully pulled cowards over their heads ...
      1. soldier of fortune
        soldier of fortune 1 November 2013 22: 58
        0
        Good or not operation will show. Here we can firmly say - well done Swedes, they took and without rivets riveted stealth, and even in the series. Whether it is steals or not, the technologies are rolling back the very ones. They simply and tastefully pulled cowards over their heads ...


        That's right, operation will show! Our poachers will definitely be envious! But at the expense of everyone else - it's vryatli. Even the Baltic neighbors do not show interest in this stupid wunderwafer. So for now, they only pulled their underpants onto their heads :)
    2. soldier of fortune
      soldier of fortune 1 November 2013 22: 53
      +1
      Quote: Tlauicol
      Well, right ... now comments will be raining down on the principle: if we don’t have this, then Visby is Mr. But. And the pluses do not forget each other ..
      This is a good ship.


      Well, maybe it’s good for the Swedes too ......... to drive fishing there so that the neighboring border guards in the neighboring waters would not be spotted. That's just for everyone else, this plastic bottle could not offer anything new. And since launching in 2000, not a single country has wanted this. In contrast, by the way, from our frigates and corvettes, which we ourselves have not yet built ourselves, and orders are already sea. And note that none of the customers require plastic stealth technology. Have eaten already!
      A stealth ship is like a stealth locomotive, until it puffs over the horizon, no one sees or hears it (the main thing is not to lean out and not puff!) :)
  4. Silhouette
    Silhouette 31 October 2013 10: 41
    -3
    Not a ship, but a props. All stealth technologies in maritime shipbuilding are pure PR and money laundering. The ship cannot be invisible in principle. Zoom out - target marks on the radar screen - yes. But it's not worth the money and the noise. Empty is everything.
    1. soldier of fortune
      soldier of fortune 1 November 2013 23: 02
      +1
      Quote: Silhouette
      Not a ship, but a props. All stealth technologies in maritime shipbuilding are pure PR and money laundering. The ship cannot be invisible in principle. Zoom out - target marks on the radar screen - yes. But it's not worth the money and the noise. Empty is everything.


      In-in! Atu his atu!
      A stealth ship is like a stealth locomotive, until it puffs over the horizon, no one sees or hears it (the main thing is not to lean out and not puff!) :)
  5. Col.
    Col. 31 October 2013 11: 30
    +1
    Thus, the detection range of the Ericsson Sea Giraffe AMB radar and the firing range of Saab Bofors Dynamics RBS 15 Mk2 missiles near 200 km in theory allows the last of the Visby corvettes to attack enemy ships before they can detect it.


    At such a range, it will be possible to ensure the defeat of the target ONLY on guidance and (or) the control unit from another ship or aircraft, since D obn. the surface target of its own naval radar is limited by the radio horizon (approx. 40 km).
    1. Abracadabra
      Abracadabra 31 October 2013 23: 52
      -1
      And if the helicopter rises?
      1. Col.
        Col. 1 November 2013 09: 08
        0
        Quote: Abra Kadabra
        And if the helicopter rises?


        So I wrote:
        Quote: Colonel
        ONLY on guidance and (or) control from another ship or aircraft


        And from a helicopter too, if he raisedЕtsya
    2. tlauicol
      tlauicol 1 November 2013 08: 28
      -1
      it is limited to our IPC 1124, which is painted by uv. comrade MCHPV. Just read a little about Ericsson Sea Giraffe AMB or the radio wave envelope of the Earth and everything will become clear. 21st century in the yard (at least in Sweden)
      1. soldier of fortune
        soldier of fortune 1 November 2013 23: 16
        +2
        Quote: Tlauicol
        it is limited to our IPC 1124, which is painted by uv. comrade MCHPV. Just read a little about Ericsson Sea Giraffe AMB or the radio wave envelope of the Earth and everything will become clear. 21st century in the yard (at least in Sweden)


        Yes, everything has long been clear to us about their 21st century. And you, dear, just read the article to the end (in the lower left corner in small print) ......... Now it is clear where it came from? The author simply blinded her from translations of bourgeois advertising booklets from foreign sites!
        ".... You, after all, will you teach me commerce ?! Do you need it?" :)
        Better to teach the Swedes, otherwise they can’t beat anyone out of their wunderwafel ...... even to the neighbors.
  6. Strashila
    Strashila 31 October 2013 11: 33
    +4
    As far back as the 50s of the last century, the USSR had invisible ships ... torpedo boats of the Bolshevik project ... given that the main material was plywood, the radars actually didn’t see them ... they put aluminum cones on the exercises ... well or a boat breaker was detected at its full speed. There was a case when, due to its features, the boat connection appeared inside an American warrant led by an aircraft carrier ... they didn’t even snuff ... found when the boat connection simulated an attack and went through the line, the Americans did not have time play even anxiety.
    1. tlauicol
      tlauicol 31 October 2013 14: 55
      +2
      bullshit negative a good radar even sees wooden debris in the water. about aircraft carriers too nonsense negative
      1. soldier of fortune
        soldier of fortune 1 November 2013 23: 19
        0
        Quote: Tlauicol
        bullshit negative a good radar even sees wooden debris in the water. about aircraft carriers too nonsense negative


        Bullshit is your every word. No offense! Argue better and give links!

        Although, I myself was already tired of giving links to the Pythagorean table and the school physics textbook :)
  7. twister
    twister 31 October 2013 11: 57
    -1
    10 years ago, I observed such a Russian island in the far east. So let the Swedes rest!
    1. Alexei
      Alexei 31 October 2013 13: 21
      +9
      It seems to me that the American flag flutters on the back of your miracle boat?
      1. twister
        twister 31 October 2013 13: 56
        0
        Maybe not a successful project sold to the Yankees)
      2. Su-9
        Su-9 31 October 2013 15: 34
        +1
        It’s not a flag just there. The houses are also so typically American in the background. Would you even understand a little bit about what you publish ...
      3. Col.
        Col. 31 October 2013 16: 03
        +1
        Quote: Alexej
        It seems to me that the American flag flutters on the back of your miracle boat?


        And it seems to me that this thing looks like a floating craft for relaxing on the water of rich mattress mats. You can go fishing, slide down the hill, drink beer in the cockpit ...
    2. Sirozha
      Sirozha 31 October 2013 13: 23
      0
      And the point of the fact that you watched it? Where are these boats now?
      1. twister
        twister 31 October 2013 13: 33
        -1
        I don’t know where they are now, but in any case, we have technologies, or were)
  8. Alekseev
    Alekseev 31 October 2013 12: 31
    +2
    Persistent rumors smile that in some ranges of radar (meter) stealth is very clearly visible.
    Interesting is the opinion of a professional REB specialist, a specialist in RTR, etc.
    Enlighten about stealth technology: how much is the candle worth?
    1. igordok
      igordok 31 October 2013 14: 34
      +4
      Theoretically, in order to be invisible, you must either transmit the entire spectrum of radiation through yourself without any distortion, which is currently not possible, or absorb the entire spectrum of waves, which is also not possible at the moment. The only "invisible" at the moment are black holes, and even those astronomers calculate by its "shadow".
      What is doing now is inconspicuous targets in a limited spectrum of waves, and "INVISIBILITY" is a big word, as mentioned above.
      Quote: Colonel
      There are no ships (planes) invisible in the literal sense of the word. This is a common term replicated by journalists. In fact, it must be understood as a decrease in the EPR of the object, leading to a decrease in the range of its detection. That's all.


      And further. To be invisible, you yourself should not emit anything, neither radar, nor sonar. Otherwise they will "see" or "hear".
  9. Bongo
    Bongo 31 October 2013 12: 34
    12
    Visby on Google Earth satellite image
    1. Xroft
      Xroft 31 October 2013 13: 31
      +3
      5+ wink a great example of stealth technology
    2. tlauicol
      tlauicol 1 November 2013 07: 37
      +2
      Awesome! Now at the headquarters of the Baltic Fleet they know that on 1 January 2007 Visby was in Karlskrona! Hooray soldier
      1. tlauicol
        tlauicol 1 November 2013 07: 57
        -1
        And then, this is not a satellite image, but aerial photography from a height of 139m
        1. Bongo
          Bongo 1 November 2013 08: 52
          +2
          On Google Earth, this image is positioned as a satellite image.
          1. tlauicol
            tlauicol 1 November 2013 09: 45
            0
            No. scale scale, m ~ m. / Peak. z image sources
            1 10 0,16 19 aerial photography
            2 20 0,31 18
            3 50 0,63 17 DigitalGlobe / GeoEye
            4 100 1,25 16
            5 200 2,50 15
            6 500 5,00 14
            7 1000 10,00 13
            8 2000 20,00 12 LandSat-7
            9 5000 40,00 11
            10 10 000 80,00 10
            11 20 000 160,00 9
            12 20 000 307,69 8
            13 50 000 625,00 7
            14 100 000 1250,00 6
            15 200 000 2500,00 5
            16 500 000 5263,16 4
            17 1 000 000 10 526,32 3
            18 2 000 000 21 052,63 2
            19 5 000 000 41 666,67 1
            20 10 000 000 83 333,33 0
            Detailed google maps makes low-flying aircraft. The streets of Google. Moreover, everything is written in the picture
  10. The comment was deleted.
  11. Mhpv
    Mhpv 31 October 2013 14: 05
    -2
    Well, what did they come up with besides the sarcophagus?
    the total length is 72 meters, the maximum width is 10,4 m, draft is about 2,4 m. Thanks to the use of new technologies, Swedish shipbuilders were able to reduce the weight of the structure. The total displacement of the Visby lead ship does not exceed 640 tons.

    Project 1124 "Albatross"! 970-80.
    1124 Series: 876 — 930 tons (standard), 1030 — 1070 tons (full)
    1124M series: 1065 t (standard), 1220 t (full)
    Length 71,1 - 71,12 m (longest)
    66,0 m (waterline)
    Width 1124 Series: 10,3 m (largest), 9,5 m (waterline)
    1124M series: 10,15 m (largest), 9,5 m (waterline)
    Draft 3,64 m (6,1 m at the fairing of the gas-turbine)
    The ship’s hull is smooth-deck, steel with combined contours (round-bent in the forelimb for high speeds and sharp-bent in the aft limb). The ratio of the length of the case to its width reaches 6,8. In order to improve the seaworthiness of the ship in stormy conditions, the surface of the hull was broadened in the bow due to the length of the bow superstructure and the sheer height of the upper deck, which occupies the entire width of the hull, which made it possible to provide the necessary freeboard height in the bow and to obtain additional volumes inside the hull [1] [7].
    The body is dialed in a longitudinal dialing system with a spacing size of 500 mm. The thickness of the outer skin varies between 6-8 mm, the second bottom has a thickness of 5 mm, and the thickness of the deck, platform and main bulkheads reaches 4 mm. Reservation of the main command post and life centers of the ship is missing. Eleven watertight bulkheads reaching the upper deck, the hull is divided into twelve compartments. The hull has upper and lower decks, below them is a platform, hold and double bottom [7] [8].
    With a standard displacement of 800 tons, normal displacement of 850 tons, the area of ​​the wetted surface is 642 m², the midsection ratio of the midship frame is 0,652, the coefficient of overall density is 0,420 [9].
    The superstructure of the ship to facilitate the construction are made of aluminum-magnesium alloy AMG-5В. The nasal superstructure takes up almost a third of the length of the hull. The internal partitions and a number of foundations of individual devices are made of aluminum-magnesium alloys, due to which it was possible to lower the position of the center of gravity of the ship and reduce the total weight of the hull structure. The double bottom space is almost 90% of the length of the hull and is used to store fresh water and fuel [7] [8].
    1. Mhpv
      Mhpv 31 October 2013 14: 06
      -2
      The main power plant of the ship is a three-shaft, diesel-gas turbine train of the echelon type. The ship’s power plant is an analogue of the ship’s power plant of the 159 project, but unlike the latter, the M-1124M gas turbine engine with an output of 8 18 l operates on the middle shaft of the 000 project powerhouse. with. (used as an afterburner engine), and on each side shaft one M-507A1 diesel engine with a capacity of 10 000 l. from [10].

      The power plant is located in separate compartments in two compartments, in the bow and stern engine rooms. In the aft echelon there are two main marching four-stroke, reversible, hundred-and-twelve-cylinder diesel engines of the M-507A brand with gas turbine supercharging weighing 17 tons. The diesel engines operate on side shafts with propellers 2,0 m in diameter. The technical life of XNXN diesel engines is up to XNXX hours. The M-2M gas turbine engine is located in the bow of the train, operating on a middle shaft with a propeller diameter of 000 m. The time to start the turbine from cold to idle speed does not exceed three minutes, and the turbine can develop full power in 8 minutes, including a five-minute stage preheating. The technical resource of the turbine is 2,4 10 hours. The 10 vent pipe is located above the fore engine room and discharged into a rectangular [000] chimney.

      The power plant of the 1124 project ships includes three diesel generators (DG-500, DG-300 and DG-200). Diesel generators provide the ship with alternating three-phase current with voltage 380 V and frequency 50 Hz [7].

      The main diesel engines and gas turbine unit are controlled from the control panel using an automated remote control system. There is an electric compressor of the EK-3 brand and a diesel compressor of the DK-2-3 brand, an auxiliary boiler unit of the KVA 1,0 / 5 M brand (with a working steam pressure of 5 kg / cm²). The ship’s energy is controlled by two main switchboards (main switchboards) “ПМЖ-7905-6361” and “ПМЖ-7906-6331”, distribution board and compensators “ЕК-2” [7].

      The speed of the project ships only under diesels can reach 22 knots with a freely rotating average shaft [10]. According to other [11] data, the total speed of the first ships of the 1124 project during operation of diesel engines and a gas turbine exceeded the 36,1 knot, and for ships of the 1124M project it reaches 32 knots. Under a single diesel engine, a ship can develop 7 knots speed, under two diesel engines - 16 knots, and when using a gas turbine engine only - 21-22 knots [11].
      1. Mhpv
        Mhpv 31 October 2013 14: 07
        -2
        The normal fuel supply on small anti-submarine ships of the 1124 project is 1З4 tons, the ship could take 143 tons of fuel for overload. The oil reserve is 10,5 tons, fresh water - 27,2 tons. The reserve on ships of the 1124 project is calculated on the basis of 7 days of autonomy, and on ships of the 1124M project - on 9 days of autonomy [11]. The ship’s cruising range at full speed is 950 nautical miles, at a speed of 14 knots - 2750 nautical miles and at a speed of 10 knots - 4 000 nautical miles [11].
        In the tiller compartment of the ship, in the diametrical plane, a thruster is installed, designed to hold the small anti-submarine ship on the foot against the wave. The device can function effectively with sea waves up to 4 points and wind power up to 5 points and can rotate the ship to the required angle with sea waves up to 3 points when the MG-Z39T Shelon [11] is down.

        The thruster is equipped with a P-159M sliding engine-steering column, equipped with an electro-hydraulic lifting (lowering) drive and electromechanical screw and column rotation drives, UK3K control system, metal mesh guard, 50-liter hydraulic tank, power supply system and special structural niche with a metal grill in the stern of the ship’s hull. The idle P-159M column rises inside the ship's hull; it may be in a lowered state, but according to the conditions of strength, the speed of the ship should not exceed 8 knots. The column is controlled remotely from the wheelhouse using the UK3K system or from the backup control panel in the tiller compartment. There is also emergency steering column control using a manual drive. The thruster is powered from the main switchboard No. 1, 2 through automatic machines A-3334; the column is started using the DSDG-500 diesel generator or, in parallel operation, two diesel generators (DG-200 and DG-300). To prevent freezing of the device, it is heated with steam. Performing more than 12 thrusters for more than one hour due to technical limitations is not recommended [11].
        1. Mhpv
          Mhpv 31 October 2013 14: 12
          -2
          So one AK 630 on the Albatross will turn all their composite into a sieve and rubbish, the crew should not take off their life jackets, and if they also update their weapons to 1124 hi
          1. tlauicol
            tlauicol 1 November 2013 08: 05
            -2
            Albatross turns into trash without firing a shot at him
            1. Mhpv
              Mhpv 1 November 2013 09: 12
              0
              This is a completely different topic. You can turn Swedish stealth into such rubbish if you transfer them to our country and even in 90 laughing
              1. tlauicol
                tlauicol 1 November 2013 09: 48
                -1
                This is a 2007 photo of the year.
                fire aboard Bashkotarstan. It clearly speaks of "vitality". without firing a shot
                1. Mhpv
                  Mhpv 1 November 2013 11: 05
                  +1
                  laughing so if the aluminum superstructure collapsed from the fire, then you yourself confirm what will happen to the composite. Internal fires and explosions and not such ships destroyed and what now?
                  1. vahatak
                    vahatak 1 November 2013 11: 31
                    -1
                    Quote: mhpv
                    so if so the aluminum superstructure collapsed from the fire, then you yourself confirm what will happen to the composite.

                    And if there is no difference, why pay more?
                    1. tlauicol
                      tlauicol 1 November 2013 11: 41
                      +1
                      A man in a camouflage uniform will also be killed by one bullet in the head as without a camouflage uniform - why pay more? Did you want to say that? Why pay for disguise?
                      No comment then ...
                      1. vahatak
                        vahatak 1 November 2013 13: 37
                        +1
                        Quote: Tlauicol
                        Why pay for disguise?

                        It was not about camouflage, but about the survival of the ship in a fire. And the composites were there not only for camouflage, but also for a reduction in the weight of the ship.
                      2. soldier of fortune
                        soldier of fortune 2 November 2013 00: 36
                        +1
                        Quote: Tlauicol
                        A man in a camouflage uniform will also be killed by one bullet in the head as without a camouflage uniform - why pay more? Did you want to say that? Why pay for disguise?
                        No comment then ...


                        You really don’t understand how a camouflage suit differs from stel-technologies or are you fooling around ???
                        For the gifted .........
                        Maskhalat is designed to reduce the likelihood of VISUAL detection of a human figure on the color background of a typical area. It will not save you from the thermal imager (unless you burrow into the swamp with your head).
                        Stealth technologies - a set of measures aimed at reducing the likelihood of detecting equipment in radar, infrared and other areas of the spectrum.
                        At sea, they do not give you any special advantages, because beyond the radio horizon, they are NOT needed anymore, and within the horizon they are ALREADY needed. Without external illumination of the target in passive tracking mode, the stealth ship is almost blind and deaf, and with an active radar, the stealth ship is like a sniper in a camouflage uniform at night WITH A LIGHT.
                  2. tlauicol
                    tlauicol 1 November 2013 11: 38
                    -1
                    Well, right, it remains only for our IPC to detect Visby first, catch up with it, approach a shot from the AK 630 and turn it into trash - it’s not funny
                    1. Mhpv
                      Mhpv 1 November 2013 12: 30
                      0
                      Let your Visba first come up unnoticed to the launch distance and hit a moving target, then we’ll talk and if you don’t just like that and that’s it. You are told that all this stealth technology is written with a pitchfork in the water, and 1124 will chase as much as possible, believe me!
                      1. tlauicol
                        tlauicol 1 November 2013 12: 38
                        +2
                        What to approach there - the IPC has a detection range of surface targets of 40 km. It is possible and closer - all the same, Albatross has nothing to answer
                      2. Mhpv
                        Mhpv 1 November 2013 13: 20
                        -1
                        The ships were equipped with a general detection radar MR-320 "Topaz-2" (since 1982 a general detection radar MR-755 "Fregat-MA-1"), navigation radar "Don-2", an electronic warfare radar "Vympel-P2", state identification equipment "Nichrome", GAS underkilnaya MG-335 "Platina", GAS lowered MG-339 "Shelon", GAS underwater communication MG-29 "Host", infrared night vision equipment "Khmel-2", radio direction finder ARP-50R.

                        The general detection radar MR-320 "Topaz-2" is designed to detect air, surface and coastal targets, as well as to issue target designation to artillery and anti-aircraft missiles. The station of the decimeter wave band worked in active and passive modes. The antenna post located at the top of the foremast provided the modes of active target detection ("A"), passive target detection ("P"). The radar is all-weather and can be operated in various climatic zones. In active mode, the surface target detection range was up to 40 km. In the passive mode, the station provided detection of radiation from operating transmitters, depending on the altitude, frequency range and power of radio electronic equipment up to 100 km. The station preparation time for operation was 5 minutes.
                        The general detection radar MR-755 "Frigat-MA-1" (since 1982) is designed to detect air, surface and coastal targets, as well as to issue target designation to artillery and anti-aircraft missiles in radio countermeasures. The station is three-dimensional (measures the range, azimuth and elevation of the detected target), with a power of 30 kW, it worked in active and passive modes. Antenna post with a phased antenna array (PAR) rotated at a speed of 15 rpm, was located at the top of the foremast and provided active target detection ("A"), passive target detection ("P"). The transmitting device (mode "A") was a broadband chain consisting of a microwave signal shaping device and a two-stage power amplifier based on a traveling wave tube (TWT) and an amplitron. To protect against dipole and natural passive interference, an adaptive digital SDC circuit was used. The radar is all-weather and can be operated in various climatic zones. In active mode, the target detection range was up to 125 km. In the passive mode, the station provided detection of radiation from operating transmitters, depending on the altitude, frequency range and power of radio electronic equipment up to 300 km. The radar had a built-in system for automated performance monitoring and diagnostics, which made it possible to detect failures and malfunctions with an accuracy of a replaceable element. Provided for automatic software inclusion, excluding errors of service personnel. Beam scanning modes with regular review are switched on by the operator from the console. The station preparation time for operation was 5 minutes.
                        In total, anti-submarine ships from 1982 to 1994 were built - 31 unit.
                      3. tlauicol
                        tlauicol 1 November 2013 18: 50
                        +1
                        My advice: do not confuse the detection range of air and surface targets (40km for for Frigate-MA). And he will not make out Visby from 20km
                      4. Mhpv
                        Mhpv 1 November 2013 19: 57
                        -2
                        Quote: Tlauicol
                        My advice

                        And my advice is, learn to read carefully
              2. Mhpv
                Mhpv 1 November 2013 21: 40
                +1
                And here’s another effective defense against Visby’s expensive missiles. Nehai shoots and finds himself laughing :
              3. soldier of fortune
                soldier of fortune 2 November 2013 00: 47
                +3
                Quote: Tlauicol
                Well, right, it remains only for our IPC to detect Visby first, catch up with it, approach a shot from the AK 630 and turn it into trash - it’s not funny


                Given the Baltic puddle in which this Swede swims, and the number of skerries and fjords, this option is very likely. And they can jump at each other at the distance of a shotgun. Then the Swede has no chance against our 100mm machine guns and metal cutters. Especially if our piece of iron goes to ram. And really not to laugh :)
                It is because of the peculiar and complex hydrology and the small size of the theater of operations in the Baltic that no one holds large ships (no reason).
          2. soldier of fortune
            soldier of fortune 1 November 2013 23: 53
            +2
            Quote: Tlauicol
            This is a 2007 photo of the year.
            fire aboard Bashkotarstan. It clearly speaks of "vitality". without firing a shot


            Absolutely right! The ship survived (didn’t drown), although it was very disastrous! Let's look at the survivability of the Swede (if this happens suddenly) ..........

            Under Gangut, Peter 1 on galleys grabbed aboard and burned half of the Swedish fleet. Part of the ships brought trophies to St. Petersburg. But this does not mean that the Swedish frigates are worse than the galley or that the galleys are badly burned.
      2. soldier of fortune
        soldier of fortune 1 November 2013 23: 43
        +1
        Quote: Tlauicol
        Albatross turns into trash without firing a shot at him


        And where is the photo of the Swede after the fire on board, for objectivity, so to speak?
        And there are also many photos of decommissioned ships sawn into scrap metal, also without a single shot ......... so what? How does this relate to the combat effectiveness of the ship?
        They have long known in all fleets that the second specialty of a sailor is FIRE! :)
    2. Mhpv
      Mhpv 1 November 2013 21: 25
      0
      Read minusers even here:
      http://topwar.ru/3233-protivoraketnyj-skorostrel.html
  12. Col.
    Col. 31 October 2013 14: 17
    0
    MCHPV, you would have copied the entire Jane's Fighting Ships guide here ...
    1. Mhpv
      Mhpv 31 October 2013 14: 28
      -2
      it will be necessary to copy. Here are described for a visual comparison of the "achievements" of the Swedes.
  • Mhpv
    Mhpv 31 October 2013 14: 43
    -1
    And no one has ruled out visual contact, and who is more noticeable?
    or
    1. Mhpv
      Mhpv 31 October 2013 15: 01
      0
      Well, the cons are not over yet? Then we continue: the advantages and disadvantages of the jet propulsion:

      Advantages

      Good protection against mechanical damage and the ability to avoid cavitation [source not specified 43 of the day].
      The possibility of the ship passing through shallow water, overcoming clogged sections of water bodies (littered fairways) and even individual obstacles protruding from the water (rifts, shallows, etc.), where the screw, or even the motor itself, can be destroyed on an ordinary screw motor. [2]
      Safety - the impeller is inside and does not pose a danger to people nearby in the water.
      At high speeds, either increased maximum speed or fuel economy is achieved. [2] [non-authoritative source?]
      Water-jet boats are more stable and controllable, this is because the water-jet seems to “suck” the boat to the water, due to which it behaves stably even with sharp turns at high speed.
      The vessel can make a turn almost on the spot and even move with a “lag” (side forward), unlike a vessel with a classic propeller propulsion. [2]
      No reverse gear required; braking from full speed is possible; emergency braking the shortest. [2]

      Disadvantages

      Efficiency lower compared to a screw due to:
      The need for transportation, in addition to the payload itself, also water in the pipeline (as a working fluid);
      Power losses due to water friction in pipelines;
      Power losses due to turbulent eddies of the water flow in the channels of the jet.
      The difficulty of supplying water through the bottom of the vessel to the pump, the effectiveness of which will be affected by the speed of the vessel relative to the water.
      The water intake also works like a pump and can drag stones, sand, trash from the bottom. This can clog the cooling system or damage the impeller and water conduit.
      The degree of wear of the rotor-stator pair is high, since operation is carried out in shallow water.
      Repair is more expensive compared to a conventional screw. [Specify]
      Also, there is a peculiar behavior of a jet boat at low speed.
  • Mhpv
    Mhpv 31 October 2013 15: 07
    0
    And all the invisibles on the sea have long been visible from outer space, so it’s not worth it to publicize the West itself
    1. vahatak
      vahatak 31 October 2013 19: 11
      +1
      Quote: mhpv
      And all the invisibles at sea have long been visible from space

      And at night? And if the fog?
    2. Pilat2009
      Pilat2009 31 October 2013 19: 34
      +3
      Quote: mhpv
      And all the invisibles on the sea have long been visible from outer space, so it’s not worth it to publicize the West itself

      The satellite flies at a certain fixed time, in a certain orbit, to bring it down in wartime, like two fingers ..... So the radar is still out of competition
      1. Mhpv
        Mhpv 31 October 2013 21: 05
        -1
        And at night? And if the fog?

        That is, if you have a "tricolor", then it works only during the day and in clear weather. In combat, these invisible ones have not been tested yet, so for now this is no longer.
        Quote: Pilat2009
        A satellite flies at a certain fixed time, in a certain orbit

        Well, yes, there are two, well, at most five satellites flying in orbit. laughing
        When making superstructures from composites, few are worried about the survivability of the ship and the survival of the crew.
        But when there is a real battle, then turn it over, the poher will be stealth, or the usual one as well as the planes will sooner or later converge into close combat and everything will depend on the team and armament, do not forget that on ships, in addition to the watch on the radar, the observers keep watch on bridge, as it was said that no one has yet canceled the visual contact. Sweden can and will go such haystacks at sea.
        And I laid it all out just because the article is about stealth ships, and there they laid out what kind of gas turbines and diesel engines, armaments and add-ons, so I gave the info for comparison. Once about stealth, it’s about stealth, and not praise TTX, more they have four gas turbine engines delivering only 21 thousand l / s, and on 1124 one 18 thousand l / s, the difference between these ships is 30let. And what offended you about the water cannons, really? Well, probably the rest of the fools go under the screws? fool
        Make minusers on. laughing
        1. Mhpv
          Mhpv 31 October 2013 21: 10
          -1
          And more
          Low-visibility technology is not at all an invention of the twenty-first century. It was known for a long time and was used in military affairs in different stories of the era. At the end of the 19th century, the army began to introduce a khaki uniform

          And these are not the first stealth ships in the world as the title says
          Interestingly, the first to build invisible ships began not in the United States, but in France.
          The latest combat frigates such as “La Fayette” seemed to have come down from the pages of a science fiction book. Already five units of warships with low radar visibility are in service with the French Navy. The first ship in the series was launched in the 1988 La Fayette (F710), followed by the frigates Surcoef (F711), Courbet (F712), Aconit (F713), and completed the series in the 2002 frigate Guepratte (F714).
        2. Pilat2009
          Pilat2009 31 October 2013 22: 40
          +2
          Quote: mhpv
          no one has yet canceled eye contact

          The visual contact in the battle is 14 miles and smoked mercilessly and silhouettes more
          Quote: mhpv
          two well, a maximum of five satellites.

          And you google how many optical reconnaissance satellites are there, and just how many are suitable for detection
          In general, with a range of missiles in 200 km there is no point in getting closer somewhere
          Shot kilometers with 70 and faded
          1. Mhpv
            Mhpv 31 October 2013 23: 34
            -1
            Quote: Pilat2009
            And you google how many optical reconnaissance satellites are there, and just how many are suitable for detection

            You have already laid out your eyes:

            Bongo Today, 12: 34

            Visby on Google Earth satellite image
            Quote: Pilat2009
            In general, with a range of missiles in 200 km there is no point in getting closer somewhere

            So here and the heck does not need stealth technology, but just either satellites or detection aircraft, only such a sarcophagus will not be allowed to come closer.
            Quote: Pilat2009
            Shot kilometers with 70 and faded

            70 km is about 35 miles, and the speed 1124 or 1135 is just 35 knots, that is, 35 miles / hour, shot and faded it on a moving target, you still need to get there, it's not so simple at sea as on land, it's in Ideally, everything is beautiful in the articles.
            Quote: Pilat2009
            silhouettes more

            I uploaded a 1124 photo to you or if you don’t visually distinguish the sizes, here is a video for you.
            1. Pilat2009
              Pilat2009 1 November 2013 12: 05
              +1
              Quote: mhpv
              or you do not distinguish the sizes visually

              What size are you to me if the ships don’t get closer than 30 km in battle? The wall hasn’t gone to the sea for a long time. From guns, there’s no wish to shoot either, this enema of 50 mm is suitable only for poachers and pirates. Read about the use of missiles in conflicts.
              If there was information about the results of the detection of this trough by our radars, then we could definitely say, but according to the laws of physics, the smaller the EPR, the closer the detection distance, then the trough can launch missiles, being unnoticed
              1. Mhpv
                Mhpv 3 November 2013 00: 04
                -2
                Quote: Pilat2009
                What for me your sizes


                that's just what degenerates who have never served on ships can say
        3. vahatak
          vahatak 1 November 2013 00: 02
          +1
          Quote: mhpv
          That is, if you have a "tricolor", then it works only during the day and in clear weather. In combat, these invisible ones have not been tested yet, so for now this is no longer.

          I have no illusions about "invisibility", and I believe that it is better to improve the detection system and increase the range of the weapon (although if, with equal opportunities, the ship will have low snagging, this will not hurt), I just don't understand how a satellite can detect a ship at night or under fog. If there is such a technology, please share.
          1. Mhpv
            Mhpv 1 November 2013 09: 29
            +1
            And I didn’t say that it is not necessary to develop stealth technologies. The article, as I already wrote, started about stealth and even the first in the world (although this is not true), but continued with the TTX promotion, so I laid out for comparison the TTX of a ship 30 years older than that not inferior.
            And the stealth should not go into the section of the ship’s BZ. Would it be if they covered it with some kind of reflective paint or something else, but made the settings from polymers? Tomorrow the Swedes will make such a polymer tank and we’ll scream hooray it’s not noticeable so it will have enough Molotov cocktail.
            And the satellite is not a video camera for you, do radio telescopes photograph stars only during the day?
            1. vahatak
              vahatak 1 November 2013 11: 40
              +1
              I agree that the author was too keen on the Swedish ship, although the French had done the stealth ship earlier, but no one claimed that this ship was superior to the Soviet ship in terms of firepower and other indicators, but information about it was simply given. If the article did not contain figures about the performance characteristics, someone would definitely ask, but what can this stealth do at all?
              Quote: mhpv
              And the satellite is not a video camera for you, do radio telescopes photograph stars only during the day?

              As far as I know, the stars take pictures at night so that the sunlight does not interfere, but what does the satellite have to detect the ship at sea? I have a specific question: with what equipment can a satellite detect a ship in question at night or under fog?
  • syntanjey
    syntanjey 31 October 2013 15: 39
    +2
    In one of the photos you have littoral combat ship USS Independence! Correct immediately, otherwise people think that this is visby with an uncovered cannon for sure! )))
  • Lone gunman
    Lone gunman 31 October 2013 16: 46
    0
    Yes, this is the best stealth boat I've seen, well, apart from the animation ...
  • Vitaminchik05
    Vitaminchik05 31 October 2013 23: 03
    +1
    Of course, I am an amateur - only I am a little embarrassed by "chose a set of polymers reinforced with carbon fiber and vinyl" - as a weight reduction and absorption of radio emission - there are no questions, but if any small racket hits the ship (even without an explosion, the remnants of the fuel of this rocket. ..) What about the fire?
    1. Mhpv
      Mhpv 31 October 2013 23: 08
      0
      Let Pilat2009 explain it.
    2. vahatak
      vahatak 1 November 2013 00: 06
      0
      Quote: Vitaminchik05
      but if any small racket gets into the ship (even without an explosion - the remaining fuel of this rocket ...) How is it with the fire?

      I think so, they hope to avoid even an artillery shell hit so that if they don’t notice it in time, they won’t shoot, and if the rocket hits, it doesn’t matter what the ship will fail anyway.
    3. Pilat2009
      Pilat2009 1 November 2013 11: 43
      0
      Quote: Vitaminchik05
      How is it with the fire?

      As well as on iron:
      The missile penetrated the 10-mm shell of the destroyer under the superstructure of the main command post at altitude. 1,8 m above the waterline, flew through the galley and entered the engine room. The explosion of rocket fuel residues caused a fire in fuel tanks, which soon swept the entire middle part of the ship's hull. Its distribution was facilitated by a drop in steam pressure and the failure of power generators that fed fire pumps, as well as the ignition of interior decoration made of synthetic materials, ship superstructures made of light aluminum-magnesium alloys and shells of electric cables burning like gunpowder. The premises very quickly filled with thick poisonous smoke, and soon the threat of an explosion of rocket and artillery ammunition was created.

      After a four-hour unsuccessful struggle for survivability, having lost 20 people killed and 28 people wounded, the Sheffield commander captain 2nd rank Salt gave the order: “Leave the ship!”
      Any small ship with a side thickness of 10 mm is doomed
  • Mhpv
    Mhpv 31 October 2013 23: 48
    +1
    So unrestrainedly sculpting minuses can only the highest laughing
    Don’t bother, it’s not interesting for me for a long time, if they are trying to defend the article, it’s a shame for those who have access to endless minuses and downgrades. I have noticed for a long time that many people leave this resource because of such behavior . laughing
    Just like Khazanov's "Let's breed pigs! And all pigs, pigs at once!" laughing
  • AlexCPP
    AlexCPP 1 November 2013 07: 01
    0
    The stealth technology on surface ships seems to me it's just a waste of money. There are ways much easier and most importantly time-tested is the use of the submarine fleet, which was created just for this.
    1. vahatak
      vahatak 1 November 2013 11: 46
      +1
      Quote: AlexCPP
      There are ways much easier and most importantly time-tested is the use of the submarine fleet, which was created just for this.

      How are you going to put a helicopter on a submarine? What kind of submarine project is created for air defense?
      Let me remind you of the tasks of the ship:
      Due to the merger of the two projects, the YS2000 ships had to carry out a wide range of tasks: from finding submarines and attacking surface targets to setting minefields and patrol service.
      1. AlexCPP
        AlexCPP 1 November 2013 19: 44
        0
        Quote: vahatak
        Quote: AlexCPP
        There are ways much easier and most importantly time-tested is the use of the submarine fleet, which was created just for this.

        a wide range of tasks: from searching for submarines and attacking surface targets to setting minefields and patrol services.

        In your opinion, the submarine fleet cannot fulfill these tasks, while being much more effective from the point of view of "stealth"?
  • The comment was deleted.
  • 1c-inform-city
    1c-inform-city 1 November 2013 15: 36
    +2
    Dear MCHP, respect for your firmness in upholding your point of view. In turn, I would like to ask why only five released it and closed the topic. I think that the matter is that, with average combat capabilities, these boats cost like good large ships. no need to go, the Americans lowered Zumvolt, which costs more than an aircraft carrier, and even instead of a series they are now forced to confine themselves to three ships. Moreover, they themselves admit that in the coming years the combat capabilities will be mediocre.
    In the shock version, Visby can be compared with 21631 (Buyan m), but here he loses outright, with the exception of speed. But a complex power plant imposes its own problems (the example of Bohr and Samum, their power also consists of several engines, but they did not go into a series of skeg type either too) Ships are powerful, high-speed (50 knots), but very expensive.
    1. Mhpv
      Mhpv 1 November 2013 16: 13
      +2
      Thank you for your understanding and support! hi
      1. soldier of fortune
        soldier of fortune 1 November 2013 22: 24
        0
        Quote: mhpv
        Thank you for your understanding and support! hi


        Hold on to the LMP! You are fighting an unequal battle with dilettantes-theorists who believe that war is the poke of buttons on the keyboard! And no one remembered that the second profession of a sailor is FIRE! And the fight for survivability (according to statistics) is 100 times longer than the time of a naval battle (as well as recovery after a minor injury). And while these plastic pelvis do not smell gunpowder ........... it is better to discuss "Star Wars" ........ - is the laser sword cooler? :)
    2. tlauicol
      tlauicol 1 November 2013 18: 44
      -1
      Visby are cheaper than our corvettes by more than one and a half times. In the navy of little Sweden there were only two Stockholm corvettes, they were replaced by four Gothenburgs, and they were replaced by five Visby. Do you understand? Buyan carries good anti-ship missiles but is completely devoid of anti-aircraft defense and air defense is purely symbolic
  • soldier of fortune
    soldier of fortune 1 November 2013 22: 09
    +1
    Quote: Tlauicol
    Visby are cheaper than our corvettes by more than one and a half times. In the navy of little Sweden there were only two Stockholm corvettes, they were replaced by four Gothenburgs, and they were replaced by five Visby. Do you understand? Buyan carries good anti-ship missiles but is completely devoid of anti-aircraft defense and air defense is purely symbolic


    Where does the info about the cost come from? Don’t give a reference? Or did you come up with this?
    And air defense on Buyan is clearly preferable, tk. on Visby it simply does not exist and only "it is planned to install the Saab Bofors Dynamics RBS 23 BAMSE anti-aircraft missile system with vertical launch ammunition." By the way, you can attach a passive towed hydroacoustic station to Buyan, and cram the Shtil air defense system ........... that's just why? Given the size of the ship, this is just silly. He will do everything, but equally bad! Buyan is generally a missile-artillery ship for completely different tasks. The Russian Navy has a lot of other ships that are a cut above Visby in terms of their air defense, anti-aircraft defense and anti-ship missile capabilities.
  • 1c-inform-city
    1c-inform-city 2 November 2013 14: 13
    +1
    Quote: Tlauicol
    Visby are cheaper than our corvettes by more than one and a half times. In the navy of little Sweden there were only two Stockholm corvettes, they were replaced by four Gothenburgs, and they were replaced by five Visby. Do you understand? Buyan carries good anti-ship missiles but is completely devoid of anti-aircraft defense and air defense is purely symbolic

    Mrk Buyan can also be converted to anti-submarine missions and there is such a project. Do not forget that 4 Visby anti-submarine and only 1 missile.
    1. Mhpv
      Mhpv 2 November 2013 23: 58
      -1
      that's just in the direction of anti-missile defense Visby with the cheers of the patriots of the Swedish invisibility against the 1124 loses outright because the 1124 is also made using stealth technology if you look at the hull of the ship.
    2. tlauicol
      tlauicol 3 November 2013 15: 40
      0
      Wikipedia must have misled you - it says that only the fifth Karlstad K 35 building will receive anti-ship missiles. However, it turned out that this is not so, the project is capable of carrying any weapons, like earlier Swedish corvettes. It would be a desire and a task. And there is a desire. all corvettes will receive anti-ship missiles in the year (Visby, Nikoping and Karlstadt have already received) In the photo, the first building of K 31 is Visby. I can put it with a PLO helicopter aboard it.
      5 Visby corvettes cost 900 million dollars. And the price of our corvettes increased to 14bn rubles (435mln dl.) Per piece
      1. Mhpv
        Mhpv 4 November 2013 11: 01
        -1
        Read carefully here. The article is for 2011 a year and do not let snot bubbles about your Visby: http: //army-news.ru/2011/07/korvet-proekta-20380/

        And then on
        In particular, the cost of one British corvette of the Khareef project is 252 million dollars (2 billion 016 million UAH), which is almost half the cost of the Ukrainian corvette, with their equal displacement, the author writes.
        The cost of the new Turkish corvette MILGEM is 260 million dollars (2 billion 080 million UAH).
        The German corvette of the MEKO A-100 project will not cost much more to German taxpayers. Its value (without discounts) is 300 million dollars (2,4 billion UAH), which makes it one of the most expensive European corvettes.
        “The construction of the“ Stereguschiy ”corvette of the 20380 project for the Russian fleet, adopted under the State Acceptance Act of the Russian Navy in 2007, cost the Russian Defense Ministry 180 million dollars (1 billion 440 million UAH). That is - more than 2,8 times (!) Less than the Ukrainian corvette will cost the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine.
        The author also points out that “in the arsenal of the same Russian shipbuilding, there are also warships, which almost completely correspond to the price of a Ukrainian ship. So, at the moment, Russian shipbuilders are implementing a contract for the construction of Project 1135.6 frigates for India. These ships are capable of developing a maximum speed of up to 30 knots, and their cruising range is 4,5 thousand miles (8,3 thousand kilometers). The first frigate - "Teg" - "Yantar" was launched in November 2009, and the second - "Tarkash" - in June 2010. As expected, these ships will be transferred to the military in 2011 and 2012. At present, the construction of the third Tricand ship is underway.
        “So, the cost of one frigate of project 1135.6, being built by the Baltic shipyard Yantar for India (displacement - 4 thousand tons, while the Ukrainian corvette - 2,5 thousand tons, the hull length - 124,8 meters, while the Ukrainian corvette - 112 m), is $ 500 million, i.e. a little over 355 million euros, or about 4 billion hryvnyas, ”writes Boris Takaev.
        1. tlauicol
          tlauicol 4 November 2013 11: 20
          +1
          http://lenta.ru/news/2013/02/28/invisible вот стоимость на сегодняшний день. на дворе давно уже не 11й год. и выбирайте выражения, уважаемый
  • Mhpv
    Mhpv 4 November 2013 11: 11
    0
    This is called trust, but check laughing
    Most of the machines created with the use of visibility reduction technologies do not have independent data on the magnitude of the effective scattering surface in different ranges, since expert evaluation of this information can increase their vulnerability. Part of the data on the visibility of such machines is based on theoretical estimates, there are also cases of intentional misinformation that overestimate, or, conversely, underestimate the real value of the EPR. Therefore, all estimates of the visibility of stealth machines should be treated with a high degree of caution.
  • Mhpv
    Mhpv 4 November 2013 11: 35
    0
    Let's refresh the memory?
    http://topwar.ru/11459-gromkiy-sedmoy-korvet-proekta-20380.html
    1. tlauicol
      tlauicol 4 November 2013 11: 48
      +1
      Refresh. Where is the price? at least at the beginning of 12g (because the article is not new?)
      As far as I remember, the Amur Plant wanted to hand over Gromkoy at 13, and where is he? not even launched, readiness for the current year is 40 percent. And why ? “For the sake of obtaining a contract, the competitive price was lowered in the hope of knocking out additional funding later, as in Soviet times and in the 90s. But instead of money, we got a well-known body under our breath. And the inability to establish management accounting and correctly record costs has led to the fact that they cannot justify growth in value "(C). But in the end, you still have to overpay and finish building with a huge lag
  • Mhpv
    Mhpv 4 November 2013 11: 55
    0
    [media = http: //my.mail.ru/video/mail/vmv51/_myvideo/13.html]
    how goes Albatross at maximum speed!
    1. Mhpv
      Mhpv 4 November 2013 11: 56
      0
      And how your dust burns

      and this is a stealth ship with such water dust around it, well, it’s completely invisible laughing
      1. tlauicol
        tlauicol 4 November 2013 14: 59
        +2
        and this is how our latest stealth corvette is dusting (or rather smoking) right at international exercises. Thanks to the NATO for helping to extinguish. and laughter and sin
        1. Mhpv
          Mhpv 4 November 2013 18: 04
          -1
          Well, in general, everything is clear with you. In the Russian Navy, you see only negativity and backwardness, but do not forget that history goes in a circle and Russia and the Navy have already experienced such stages more than once. Everything returns to normal, and not only ours, but also ships of other countries are subject to fires, only selling media are looking for too much negative about ours (even you just posted such photos here), and Westerners are silent more and more. The prices for building their ships are the same stealth, because this is an attempt to show the world what they need to take from them - the market and capitalism , no more.
          So your right will be admired by Visby, Zumvali and others, and I believe in my Navy.
          There is a good proverb "Technique is in the hands of a savage - a pile of scrap metal", no stealth technology works if the captain is not given to control the ship and lead the crew. All this stuffing makes the ships equal and everything will be decided as at all times in close combat, in line of sight.
          1. go
            go 8 November 2013 01: 58
            0
            Put a minus, because faith by faith, and technology and learning are more important. The Swedes are not savages, they are well trained in sailors. I know one. Do not consider yourself exclusively trained and strong-willed in comparison with others. They are not worse, believe me, they just do not shout about it at every corner. More cautious, yes, but no less trained. They just want to return to their families.
            1. Mhpv
              Mhpv 8 November 2013 15: 11
              -1
              Quote: go
              proverb "Technology in the hands of a savage - a pile of scrap metal"

              it doesn’t apply to Swedes, but to everyone. You know one thing and I have 2,5 experience of service with two ship commanders, so the first managed the ship and the crew like a bicycle, and the second could not get out of the base without hitting neighboring ships.
              The article and comments are not about someone's exclusivity.
              Quote: go
              They just want to return to their families.

              That is, do you think others do not want to?
          2. kugelblitz
            kugelblitz 12 November 2015 11: 05
            0
            After a couple of years, we look where the Swedes are now with their stealth and where are our corvettes, which have the shock functions of much larger ships. wassat
  • kafa
    kafa 4 November 2013 12: 17
    0
    completely thought-out design to hide the art installation under the deck and completely stealth and let trimarans and other exotic be worked out