Military Review

Israel’s missile defense system: expensive but not effective

200
Israel’s missile defense will “choke” when repelling missile strikes and collapse at a crucial moment. The reasons for such a “final” were named by an Israeli expert in the field of ABM systems, Dr. Nathan Faber.


Dr. Nathan Faber, a well-known specialist in missile defense systems (ABM), believes that the Israeli missile defense system will not withstand rocket attacks in the 20-30 day war. This is stated in a critical article, which was published in Magen LaOref magazine, reports PostSkriptum. Below are the main provisions of the article and very unpleasant conclusions for Israel. (set)

Israel’s missile defense system: expensive but not effectiveThe opinion of the expert is based on the words of Ehud Barak. Earlier, the former Minister of Defense said that on a “typical” day of the war, the duration of 20-30 days in Israel would explode on 50 tons of explosives. Approximately this amount of explosives (53 t) can carry 20 ballistic missiles (BR) with 800 kg warheads, 30 BR - 500 kg and 1200 Grad shells - 18 kg. On the question of Israel’s readiness for such a scenario, Faber gives a negative answer, since “everyone knows that Israel will use up its supply of interceptor missiles in the first days of the war”.

He came to this conclusion when analyzing the concept of creating a multi-level (layered) Israeli missile defense system, which provides for the integration of anti-missile systems with various capabilities. This implies an increase in the efforts of long-range missile defense systems with medium-range and short-range complexes, provided that they are effectively targeted to prevent over-missile missiles. Next, Faber examines the main assets of missile defense and their capabilities.

The existing Arrow-2 missile defense system is capable of intercepting, in the main, Syrian Scud-type missiles (B, C, D) with a range of 300-700 km. They may be shot down over the territory of Israel and the West Bank at an altitude of 30-100 km. The Arrow-3 system being developed will be capable of intercepting Iranian Shihab missiles (1300 km range) at 250-300 km altitude hundreds of kilometers (over Jordan) from the Israeli border. In the future, Arrow-3 will have to intercept Segil missiles with a range of up to 2 thousand km.

The David's Sling system (70-300 km range) is designed to intercept Syrian and Hezbollah tactical missiles (Fateh-100 and M-600) with an 200-300 km range at an altitude up to 15 km. The latest missile defense system will be the Patriot, intercepting missiles at an altitude of 10-12 km.

Grad-type rocket artillery shells (up to 40 km) and Iranian Fajr missiles (up to 70 km) will be intercepted by the Iron Dome missile defense system at 2-3 km heights directly above the object to be covered. But, despite the statements of the manufacturer (Rafale concern), the technical capabilities of the system will not ensure the protection of the areas adjacent to Gaza. A temporary alternative to the Iron Dome, according to Faber, may be the American ship defense system against the Phalanx CIWS anti-ship missiles.

Faber considered that in the next war Israel would be threatened: around 800 Iranian ballistic missiles, around 400 Syrian Scuds (part used in civil war), 500-1000 tactical missiles Fateh and Hezbollah and more 100 thousands of rocket artillery shells of Syria, Hezbollah and Hamas. But only a third of these missiles will reach targets in Israel, and the rest will be intercepted by the Israeli Air Force and will not be used for technical reasons, Faber said.

The analyst has calculated the total cost of interceptor missiles, taking into account the fact that two missile interceptors are needed to reliably defeat attacking missiles. Thus, to defeat 400 ballistic missiles, you must have an 800-1000 interceptor of the Arrow-2 (3) type costing 2,4-3 billion dollars (one missile costs 3 million dollars). The cost of the required number of missiles missile defense system "Prasha David" can make 1-2 billion dollars for a million dollars for one, and taking into account the cost of deploying the entire system, this amount can double.

The cost of the Iron Dome interceptors can be 6 billion dollars at a price of 100 thousand dollars for one rocket and a required quantity of at least 30 thousand units. And this is without taking into account the cost of deploying additional batteries for "several hundred thousand dollars each". At the same time, Faber argues that the probability of interception of this system is 66% versus 85% according to the statements of the developers and the military. To justify the latter, that 66% is better than zero, the expert reasonably states that “it’s not the Iron Dome that saves people’s lives, but the bomb shelters they hide in during a rocket attack.”

But this “everything does not end,” writes Faber. In his opinion, ballistic missiles and rockets are made today at an “accelerated pace”. And in the event of a war, “not today, but in a few years, we will encounter an arsenal in 2-3 times the current one.” From all this, Faber drew financial and operational conclusions.

The first, financial, talks about the need for Israel to have interceptors, the cost of which could be 10 billion dollars. An Israeli expert has no doubt that with the current confrontation, the state will use all the means of protection at its disposal. But the post-war process of rebuilding stocks can last several years and will cost at least 10 billion dollars. Faber asks: “Can anyone believe in the reasonableness of an event of this scale?” And he himself responds - “No one can believe. It's about nonsense. ”

The second, operational, says that today Israel is not protected from ballistic missiles and "the effectiveness of such protection in the future is questionable." Faber confirms this conclusion by the fact that in combat conditions the systems for intercepting ballistic missiles have not been tested and its effectiveness has not yet been evaluated. He considers building a missile defense system based on the fight against the Scud, Shihab and Sedgil missiles to be another negative factor. But today the number of more advanced missiles is constantly growing, which reduces the overall effectiveness of the current Israeli missile defense system. In addition, all known missile tests were conducted under conditions - an interceptor against a single attacking missile. Therefore, today no one can evaluate the possible result and possible behavior of various missile defense systems with the mass use of various types of missiles. And the system “David's sling” has not yet been tested and its operational capabilities are unknown.
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  1. mirag2
    mirag2 31 October 2013 08: 32 New
    11
    Ha, well, I don’t know here, it looks like a "cut", or rather a Jewish divorce.
    They have a normal system, they’ll do it. They don’t have to shoot back from hypersound yet, but the price is yes. The price is not small, that's why there are not enough rockets.
    But, let them not be afraid of anything, America will then pay them with the blood of their own people and the world’s population, who feed the dollar with their labor and goods. That is so far they are sure of the dollar, and it is growing, and I think they will give money to the Jews.
    They have not yet overcome the Jewish lobby in their own home so that Israel would not be able to help them with money for military needs.
    That the United States itself refused to fight for Israel with Syria and Iran, this is a breakthrough for the United States, a shock for Israel.
    It seems to me that Israel has not yet been duped and did not realize, what is it? How is it? That is why they rushed into the arms of SA. Perhaps they themselves also persuaded the SA to hint about a "divorce" from the USA ...
    1. Veter
      Veter 31 October 2013 08: 38 New
      +7
      Quote: mirag2
      Ha, well, I don’t know here, it looks like a "cut", or rather a Jewish divorce.

      Train !!!

      PS We are waiting for the comments of the professor ...
      1. mirag2
        mirag2 31 October 2013 08: 45 New
        14
        Waiting, waiting.
        Explanations, teachings, and poking a finger into my thick forehead to explain to me stupid that I was something I didn’t understand.
        And what I understood, I understood everything was wrong, because it wasn’t given to me, and I won’t understand that it’s not with my snout to climb into the ranks ...
    2. Lopatov
      Lopatov 31 October 2013 08: 57 New
      23
      Dear, thanks to this "divorce" the Israelis have developed a huge practice of combat use of missile defense systems, which no other country in the world has. And the Americans did not pay for a great life, they paid for this experience
      1. mirag2
        mirag2 31 October 2013 09: 17 New
        +4
        Yes, I’m not saying that it’s bad, that such systems are rubbish, by no means!
        What the United States pays for experience, or else, it doesn’t matter, they pay Israel.
        Could pay their military concerns, there people are no more stupid than in IMI, so that they would develop and deliver finished goods there.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 31 October 2013 09: 27 New
          +5
          You do not forget that the financial assistance of the Israel Defense Forces and the financial participation of the United States in the development and creation of a missile defense system go through different articles.

          The general military is provided as part of a large program that is carried out in the BV. It involves not only Israel, but also Egypt, Pakistan, Jordan. And even Palestinian autonomy.
        2. Professor
          Professor 31 October 2013 09: 30 New
          +2
          Quote: mirag2
          Could pay their military concerns, there people are no more stupid than in IMI, so that they would develop and deliver finished goods there.

          Only not IMI, but Raphael. Do you know the difference?
          1. mirag2
            mirag2 31 October 2013 11: 35 New
            +3
            I know, thanks to you, I have never heard of IMI before, like rafal (since 1948).
            And you?
            1. Professor
              Professor 31 October 2013 12: 11 New
              -3
              Quote: mirag2
              I know, thanks to you, I have never heard of IMI before, like rafal (since 1948).
              And you?

              I do not know. Enlighten pliz.
        3. Pimply
          Pimply 31 October 2013 14: 14 New
          +4
          In exchange for financing the program, they gain access to technical documentation, which means they save on R&D.
        4. Dezzed
          Dezzed 31 October 2013 20: 05 New
          -1
          Quote: mirag2
          Could pay their military concerns


          We could. But where would these "concerns" in combat conditions conduct tests? in Arizona?
      2. beard999
        beard999 31 October 2013 15: 41 New
        +7
        Quote: Spade
        Israelis have developed a huge practice of combat use of missile defense systems, which no country in the world has

        And where will such a “practice” come from in other countries? And anyway, why can you explain this “practice” to other countries of the world? The Israeli use of missile defense takes place in absolutely specific local conditions: the enemy is insurgents, and not the regular army, well-known positioned launch areas (along the front - less than 50 km, depths of 6 to 12 km), the enemy uses artillery missiles "Qassam-1/2 / 3 "," Al-Quds-101 "(having low reliability, short range and large dispersion area) launched from single-handed launchers, very limited defense area ... The Israeli experience of using missile defense is very specific and it is impossible to extrapolate it to other countries. Therefore, such a "practice of the combat use of missile defense systems" is of no interest to anyone except Israel itself. In any case, attempts to sell their missile defense systems to other countries, in Israel, to put it mildly, are not very successful:
        http://lenta.ru/news/2013/02/08/irondome/
        http://lenta.ru/news/2013/10/30/kipatbarzel/
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 31 October 2013 15: 47 New
          0
          Quote: beard999
          The Israeli experience in using missile defense is very specific and it is impossible to extrapolate it to other countries. Therefore, such a "practice of the combat use of missile defense systems" is of no interest to anyone except Israel itself.

          DPRK, India, Singapore - I know not one or two countries where a similar system can be used.
          1. Kars
            Kars 31 October 2013 16: 25 New
            +4
            Quote: Pimply
            where a similar system can be used.

            By the way, what is your work there? A new blow to Syria? I'm interested.
            1. Pimply
              Pimply 31 October 2013 16: 34 New
              0
              Quote: Kars
              By the way, what is your work there? A new blow to Syria? I'm interested.


              The media cite a witness who tweeted on the evening of October 30 on a powerful explosion in the coastal city of Jable, located 30 km south of Latakia. According to reports, there was a base of Syrian air defense. It is also known that the base of the Syrian missile forces was located or is still located in the Jable area (in the spring of this year it was reported that several Scud missiles were launched from this base on the rebel positions).

              Israeli authorities do not confirm or comment on information about the involvement of the IDF Air Force in the attack on targets in Syria. Damascus has so far refrained from commenting.
              1. Kars
                Kars 31 October 2013 16: 40 New
                +1
                Quote: Pimply
                Israeli authorities do not confirm or comment on information on IDF involvement

                it means exactly unknown. sorry.
                1. Pimply
                  Pimply 31 October 2013 16: 42 New
                  +3
                  Quote: Kars
                  it means exactly unknown. sorry.

                  And it’s never exactly known. The IDF is committed to not commenting on such events. I would say yes rather than no.
            2. atalef
              atalef 31 October 2013 20: 13 New
              0
              Quote: Kars
              By the way, what is your job there? A new blow to Syria? I'm interested
              Ours do not comment, Lebanese claim that the Turks
          2. beard999
            beard999 31 October 2013 20: 11 New
            +3
            Quote: Pimply
            DPRK, India, Singapore - I know not one or two countries where a similar system can be used.

            No, he can not. Because there is nothing similar to the Israeli conditions for the use of missile defense systems in these countries.
            South Korea confronts the DPRK regular army. Even theoretically, (at 100% efficiency, which is not realistic in practice) to intercept at least one full salvo of the (18 BM) division of Grad MLRS, in 720 RS, you need 12 batteries (36 launchers) of Iron Dome . The DPRK, according to the Americans, has 5100 MLRS http://lenta.ru/news/2013/06/30/dprk, not counting the barrel artillery and mortars. Such a volley to intercept, in principle, is not possible. Therefore, for the South Caucasus, the Israeli missile defense is absolutely meaningless. Moreover, this applies to India. The border between India and Pakistan is about 3000 km, and the defended area there is orders of magnitude larger than the Israeli ones. So for India, a similar Israeli missile defense system is not feasible. Actually because the Indians abandoned the Iron Dome. No one shells Singapore. Nor does he have any conflicts with neighboring Malaysia and Indonesia. Singapore does not need an Iron Dome at all.
            Absolutely no analogies with the Israeli practice of using missile defense, the countries you have listed do not. And in the world as a whole, nothing of the kind is ever seen anywhere else. Iron Dome is relevant only in the specific conditions of Israel. And then, so far, there is experience only in the fight against improvised missile insurgents.
            1. Pimply
              Pimply 31 October 2013 20: 46 New
              +2
              Quote: beard999
              South Korea confronts the DPRK regular army. Even theoretically, (at 100% efficiency, which is not realistic in practice) to intercept at least one full salvo of the division (18 BM) of the Grad MLRS, in 720 RS, you need 12 batteries (36 launchers) Iron Dome .

              Koreans are going to buy 10.
              Quote: beard999
              Moreover, this applies to India. The border between India and Pakistan is about 3000 km, and the defended areas there are orders of magnitude larger than the Israeli ones.

              They are not going to build a continuous missile defense. They need missile defense to protect certain areas. Hindus constantly refuse or sign again. They are traded, they have standard moves.


              Quote: beard999
              No one shells Singapore. Nor does he have any conflicts with neighboring Malaysia and Indonesia. Singapore does not need an Iron Dome at all.

              Yes, that’s why probably Singapore is diligently strengthening its army. Because there are no threats. From the very beginning, Singapore understood very well that without a strong army they would be eaten. Do you know the history of the formation of the army of Singapore?
              1. beard999
                beard999 1 November 2013 17: 21 New
                0
                Quote: Pimply
                Koreans are going to purchase 10

                Do not invent. Nor are there any, even preliminary, arrangements for the supply of Iron Dome between the UK and Israel. Negotiations have been going on for three years, but no decisions have been made. And judging by the mood of the Koreans are unlikely to be accepted in the foreseeable future. I provided the link above. Moreover, 10 batteries of the South Koreans will not save even from one full salvo of the Grad MLRS division, the development of 50 years ago ...
                Quote: Pimply
                They need missile defense to protect certain areas

                India is creating its own missile defense system, with completely different characteristics than those available at Iron Dome.
                http://texnomaniya.ru/voennaya-texnika/indija-gotova-k-sozdaniju-sistemi-pro.htm
                l
                Quote: Pimply
                Hindus constantly refuse, then re-sign

                Today, India’s official position is to reject Iron Dome purchases. Everything else is speculation and fantasy.
                Quote: Pimply
                Do you know the history of the formation of the army of Singapore?

                No, I do not know. And this does not change anything at all. And if neighboring countries suddenly want to conquer Singapore (a country 3,5 times smaller than Moscow), they will do so without any problems. The forces of the parties there are absolutely incomparable.
                However, let's not get away from the topic of conversation. Just give a confirming source (preferably Singaporean) that they have specific Iron Dome procurement plans.
        2. Lopatov
          Lopatov 31 October 2013 16: 24 New
          +4
          Quote: beard999
          And anyway, why can you explain this “practice” to other countries of the world?

          To create missile defense systems. A very promising direction. Both Americans and Germans work. And the practice of combat use is very important.
          1. beard999
            beard999 31 October 2013 20: 14 New
            +2
            Quote: Spade
            Both Americans and Germans work

            Specific American and German programs "PRO battlefield" name. In any case, the Americans refused the Israeli Iron Dome back in 2012 ...
            Quote: Spade
            And the practice of combat use is very important.

            Well, where exactly are the Americans, and especially the Germans, able to apply specific Israeli practices? Where the United States and Germany may be faced with shelling similar to Hamas Israel?
            Americans and Germans do not need a system that only intercepts improvised missiles. It is expensive, and even less effective against the fire weapons of regular armies. And Israel does not have such a “practice”. Actually, the "practice" of using the Israeli missile defense, even against insurgent missiles, is not so uniquely successful. For example, there is an article in Haaretz called How many rockets has an Iron Dome really intercepted? Unfortunately, the electronic version is paid. But you can access the article through the wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%96%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%B7%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0 % B9_% D
            0% BA% D1% 83% D0% BF% D0% BE% D0% BB (there is the 35th link at the bottom of the page, in the notes). The article talks about the very low effectiveness of the Israeli missile defense, even in confronting Hamas.
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 31 October 2013 20: 29 New
              +1
              USA: PRO battlefield: CorpsSAM, PAC-2GEM, PAC-3, MEADS. Missile defense zones: ABL, UAV-BPI, NAD. Theater of missile defense: THAAD, NTW

              Have you been banned in google?
              1. beard999
                beard999 1 November 2013 17: 23 New
                +1
                Quote: Spade
                Have you been banned in google?

                But you, Google, have obviously gone overboard. Judging by your "set" of systems, you have read http://www.iskran.ru/russ/works99/sutyagin2.html convicted of spying on Sutyagin. In vain. This information is 15 years ago and has long lost relevance. Many programs have long been and finally closed. Some systems (PAC-2GEM, PAC-3, MEADS http://military-informer.narod.ru/pvo-meads.html) are multifunctional air defense systems and missile defense systems, they can be attributed only insofar as they can shoot down individual ballistic goals. For example, domestic Buk air defense systems can do this, but no one calls such a missile defense system "battlefield missile defense". In general, most of the samples you listed are not even missed by the developers themselves.
                And the most important thing. None of the systems you have listed are tailored for the tasks that Iron Dome solves. The same PAC-3 or MEADS, on the theater of operations, have never been engaged in intercepting mortar shells and RS-type M-21s and will not. It’s strange that you don’t know the obvious things ...
                So the Israeli "practice" for other countries, will not do anything. Because the same USA and Germany, there are no similar missile defense systems, no specific conditions for their use.
            2. Tourist Breakfast
              Tourist Breakfast 31 October 2013 21: 14 New
              +2
              For Germans:

              The German Air Force adopted the first 35-millimeter anti-aircraft artillery complex of short-range MANTIS (Modular, Automatic and Network-capable Targeting and Interception System, Modular automatic and network guidance and interception system) manufactured by Rheinmetall Defense. The official ceremony took place on November 26 of 2012 at the German military base Husum - the home base of the First Anti-Air Battery as part of the First Schmitwig-Holstein anti-aircraft missile division of the Luftwaffe. The battery consists of six ground artillery, two fire control system stations and a command post.

              MANTIS is designed to protect military facilities and strategic civilian infrastructure from low-flying air threats, including manned and unmanned aerial vehicles. NBS MANTIS of close range is able to detect, track and shoot down projectiles at close range from a protected object. The German army will be the first army in the world with such a means of protection against air threats. In the future, MANTIS will also become an important part of the future integrated defense system of the Bundeswehr SysFla. The MANTIS complexes are fully integrated with the German control systems.
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 31 October 2013 21: 18 New
                +4
                I have already written about the "praying mantis" below. There is also the American Phalanx CIWS from Raytheon, but they weren't too smart, they put the marine system on the trailer.

                The Germans are working better. And more trunks.

                Plus, the Germans came to grips with laser devices for these purposes.
                1. Tourist Breakfast
                  Tourist Breakfast 31 October 2013 21: 32 New
                  0
                  There is also the American Phalanx CIWS from Raytheon, but they weren’t very smart, they put the marine system on the trailer.


                  In our country, this option also competed with Kupol. As a result, they were not accepted into service.
                  1. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 31 October 2013 21: 35 New
                    +2
                    Go down below, we’re just wondering what was offered to you.
                    1. Tourist Breakfast
                      Tourist Breakfast 31 October 2013 23: 29 New
                      +1
                      Go down below, we’re just wondering what was offered to you.


                      What to guess? Raytheon was just what Phalanx was offering. It was in the news:

                      Two large American arms companies are offering their designs to the Israeli government, which is considering ways to protect cities from rocket attacks from the Gaza Strip.
                      http://www.newsru.co.il/mideast/11jul2006/qasamneged.html
              2. Abracadabra
                Abracadabra 1 November 2013 01: 22 New
                0
                This Mantis can even shoot down RPGs :) I saw a demonstration. They are now being staged at military bases in Afghanistan.
              3. Abracadabra
                Abracadabra 1 November 2013 01: 32 New
                +1
                Mantis knocks down an RPG :) 0:36
              4. beard999
                beard999 1 November 2013 17: 25 New
                0
                Quote: Tourist's Breakfast
                MANTIS is designed to protect military installations and strategic civilian infrastructure from low-flying air threats, including manned and unmanned aerial vehicles.

                And what does this have to do with the "battlefield missile defense system"?
              5. Professor
                Professor 1 November 2013 17: 34 New
                -1
                Quote: Tourist's Breakfast
                German Armed Forces adopts first MANTIS 35mm short-range anti-aircraft artillery system

                Yes it's true, more details here:
                Entered service first battery ZAK MANTIS
        3. Dezzed
          Dezzed 31 October 2013 20: 11 New
          +1
          Did you write Fazer and Grad in "depth from 6 to 12 km"?
          By the way, Israel is fired not only from gases. also from the territory of the Sinai settlement of the island and Lebanon.
          there will be deeper.
        4. bif
          bif 31 October 2013 23: 13 New
          0
          Well, if this missile defense can be broken by rockets and shells whose technological age is more than half a century, so why ... someone needs such a miracle. I agree with you - of course, an invaluable experience - to soak the insurgents with super modern weapons for decades and occasionally bring down their needlework rockets.
          I can’t find it, but if you look, there is an article comparing the capabilities of the Praised Kumpol and Tor-M.
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 31 October 2013 23: 22 New
            0
            Is the "Tor-M" complex in general of this class?
            1. Professor
              Professor 31 October 2013 23: 30 New
              0
              Quote: Spade
              Is the "Tor-M" complex in general of this class?

              Even so, did he work continuously 365 days a year, 24 hours a day? Do you have any combat experience? Is he trying to intercept everything in succession, or those that are sent strictly to, say, a settlement? Here already one S-400 connoisseur recalled ...
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 31 October 2013 23: 43 New
                +1
                You don’t consider us to be Papuans at all, Tor-M may well work out for such purposes as a missile. It's just that we have never been puzzled by such an application.
                1. Pimply
                  Pimply 1 November 2013 00: 23 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Spade
                  Tor-M may well work out for such purposes as a missile. It's just that we have never been puzzled by such an application.

                  True, it is imprisoned simply for other tasks, and, more importantly, for the protection of other areas.
                2. Professor
                  Professor 1 November 2013 09: 14 New
                  -1
                  Quote: Spade
                  You don’t consider us absolutely Papuans

                  By no means.

                  Quote: Spade
                  Tor-M may well work out for such purposes as a missile. It's just that we have never been puzzled by such an application.

                  At the training ground, maybe when the operator knows the approximate time of shelling. 365 days around the clock I don’t know if it was created for such tasks.
          2. bif
            bif 1 November 2013 00: 12 New
            +1
            Quote: bif
            I can’t find it, but if you look, there is an article comparing the capabilities of the Praised Kumpol and Tor-M.

            http://www.arms-expo.ru/055057052124050051056055051.html
            ".. from the point of view of the type of targets hit," Thor "is not inferior to the" Iron Dome ", which gives reason to consider the" Thor "as a means and an anti-missile defense ..
            It should be noted that the Tor air defense system, originally created to provide air defense for troops, is capable of solving problems as a short-range missile defense system, and in a number of its indicators it is not inferior to the latest Israeli Iron Dome anti-missile defense system.
            The battery of the "Thor" air defense missile system is fundamentally and for the better different from the "Iron Dome" battery in terms of survivability.
            It is known that the BM (battery) "Tor-M2E" is capable of simultaneously firing at up to 4 (16) air targets. Among other advantages of BM ZRS "Tor" in comparison with the Israeli missile defense system "Iron Dome" autonomy of action, high speed of movement, short time to transfer to the combat (stowed) position ... "
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 1 November 2013 00: 17 New
              +3
              Dear, you do not seem to understand that the "Iron Dome" are not separate launchers, they are missile defense system.

              There will be almost no sense from the "autonomous Thor". It is necessary to create system. And it will cost no cheaper than Israeli.
        5. Rav Seren
          Rav Seren 10 December 2013 11: 46 New
          +1
          "At the same time, Brown did not specify which parameters of the system do not meet the requirements of the military."

          Terms of sales to India ALWAYS involve kickbacks. Israel prefers not to work according to this scheme - that’s all.
        6. Rav Seren
          Rav Seren 10 December 2013 11: 48 New
          +1
          "The developers of the Iron Dome admit that the Tamir interceptor missiles they use cost tens of thousands of dollars each, which is much more expensive than an unguided missile that can be made in artisanal conditions."

          This is deliberate nonsense. Now the cost of the Tamir anti-missile missile has been reduced to $ 1, which is comparable even to the cost of a downed missile, not to mention the fact that the missile fired destroys a house worth hundreds of thousands of dollars and kills lives.
    3. Professor
      Professor 31 October 2013 09: 28 New
      +6
      Quote: mirag2
      The USA itself refused to fight for Israel ...

      America never fought for Israel, but only for itself darling. Wake up.
    4. Rav Seren
      Rav Seren 10 December 2013 11: 42 New
      +1
      You have a deeply misconception. Israel did not need a war with Syria and Iran at all - Israel needed the disarmament of these countries. And this Israel has completely achieved. Syria's chemical weapons are in the process of destruction, and Iran is completely disarming in relation to its nuclear potential. Most and new centrifuges are being dismantled, uranium enriched up to 20 percent is being eroded, and the commissioning of new facilities is frozen. This is the complete and unconditional disarmament of Iran - without war or risk.
  2. Lindon
    Lindon 31 October 2013 08: 39 New
    +6
    Honestly and on business.
    A long war is not an allowable luxury for the Israeli economy.
    1. Deniska999
      Deniska999 31 October 2013 08: 45 New
      +7
      And Israel does not look like a country capable of withstanding a long war.
      1. atalef
        atalef 31 October 2013 20: 15 New
        -2
        Quote: Deniska999
        And Israel doesn’t look like a country capable of withstanding a long war.

        But it was not necessary. all were smashed in 1-3 weeks.
      2. Pimply
        Pimply 31 October 2013 20: 53 New
        -3
        War of Independence - 2 of the year, War of Attrition - 3 of the year, conflict in South Lebanon - 18 of the year. This is not counting the periodic fighting between conflicts.
    2. Lopatov
      Lopatov 31 October 2013 08: 59 New
      15
      Not quite the case. The expert took as a postulate that Israel would go on the defensive without striking at the enemy’s attack facilities and infrastructure. But this is a fantastic scenario.
      1. tlauicol
        tlauicol 31 October 2013 09: 13 New
        +5
        That's right. Jews are not stupid enough to sit and wait day after day for what will end earlier: anti-missiles of the Jews or RS of the enemy. In the very first hours, they will strike back with aviation and ground forces. Another war will end with another pogrom of Arabs
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 31 October 2013 09: 17 New
          +4
          Not everything is so simple, but not everything is as tragic as the expert is trying to describe.
      2. bif
        bif 31 October 2013 12: 05 New
        +2
        Quote: Spade
        Not quite the case. The expert took as a postulate that Israel would go on the defensive without striking at the enemy’s attack facilities and infrastructure. But this is a fantastic scenario.

        One of the most sober and unbiased articles on Israel's missile defense. An article about missile defense capability, not tactics or other outside factors. If there is a desire to admit the influence of these factors - Israel's response to the enemy (which, in principle, has nothing to do with missile defense), then let's assume that the enemy's missiles are not Skuda and Fatehi, but Tochka-U, Caliber, Iskander, etc. and the most fantastic scenario - a couple of Liners ... from under the water. The scenario is more than fatal ... So you don't have to weave "But if yes, how would it be".
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 31 October 2013 12: 27 New
          +3
          Quote: bif
          the enemy’s missiles are not Scuda and Fateh, but Tochka-U, Caliber, Iskander, etc. and the most fantastic scenario is a couple of Liners ... from under the water.

          I apologize, and what are the likely opponents of Israel?

          Unlike this incredible scenario, the probability of a retaliatory strike is close to one, and Israel has rich technical capabilities to carry it out. Including nuclear weapons.
          1. bif
            bif 31 October 2013 23: 00 New
            0
            Do you understand Russian? What does the system’s capabilities (its physical potential) and some probabilities have to do with it ... but about technology it’s a matter of political will, because Israel was given nuclear weapons, which means the will of the United States at that time.
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 31 October 2013 23: 26 New
              +3
              Quote: bif
              What does the system’s capabilities (its physical potential) and some probabilities have to do with it ...

              Oooh, my friend ... All military science is built solely on probabilities. War is such a thing, during which you cannot be sure of anything at 100%. Even the inefficiency of the Israeli missile defense.
              Israel itself has developed its nuclear weapons, it seems to be rumored to be jointly with South Africa.
              1. Misantrop
                Misantrop 31 October 2013 23: 49 New
                0
                Quote: Spade
                Israel developed its own nuclear weapons

                And did you also learn CAM specialists for development? Or did he bring together a bunch of former Soviet citizens who worked for many years on this issue and financed their work? wink
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 31 October 2013 23: 51 New
                  +1
                  Do you think that only jewelers came to Israel as repatriates?
                2. Pimply
                  Pimply 1 November 2013 00: 38 New
                  0
                  Quote: Misantrop
                  And did you also learn CAM specialists for development? Or did he bring together a bunch of former Soviet citizens who worked for many years on this issue and financed their work?

                  Do you even know about the quality of the technical school in Israel, or about its origin? For example, Chaim Weizmann has developed a new method for producing the acetone necessary for the manufacture of ammunition using the bacterium Clostridium acetobutylicum, which is now sometimes called the "Weizmann organism." This greatly helped the British in World War I.

                  Ernst David Bergmann, an expert in organic chemistry, became the "father" of Israel's nuclear program.

                  Ask how many Nobels in Israel in chemistry and physics.
                  1. Papakiko
                    Papakiko 1 November 2013 00: 59 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Pimply
                    Ask how many Nobels in Israel in chemistry and physics.

                    Oh yeah, do not forget the Peace Prize to Barak Khuseyenovich.
                    Everything is solely due to merit and intelligence and achievements.
                    And look at how many Nobels are to citizens of the former USSR and for what they are appointed. Sholokhov, Pasternak, Solzhenitsyn, Sakharov, Gorbachev - like everyone, the hypocritical course of the committee is quite understandable.
                    Quote: Pimply
                    For example, Chaim Weizman

                    And where did this high-born Israeli son come from and where?
                    After receiving a traditional Jewish upbringing in a cheder, Weizmann enrolled in a real school in Pinsk. At the end of the school, Weizmann continued his education in Germany, at the Darmstadt Polytechnic Institute, and then at the Royal Technical College in Berlin. He completed his education in 1899, receiving a doctorate at the University of Friborg in Switzerland. In 1901, he received the post of professor of biochemistry at the University of Geneva.
                    And who was the pope and with what money could the future first presidential of the independent Irail be formed?
                    Father, Ezer (Evzor) Weizmann, served as an official in the forest rafting office.
                    Nowadays, we all perfectly understand how hard work makes money from trading in natural resources and how finances are derived from taxation.
                    Quote: Pimply
                    Do you even know about the quality of the technical school in Israel, or about its origin?

                    Probably any one from the Old Testament or Moisha on stone tablets brought knowledge from the Sinai Mountain.
                    1. Rumata
                      Rumata 1 November 2013 01: 10 New
                      0
                      Quote: Papakiko
                      Oh yes, the Peace Prize will not be forgotten to Barak Huseyonovich.

                      For 8 years, 3 Nobel Prizes in chemistry have gone to Israel, roughly 40%, two of the three laureates this year were educated in Israel.
                      1. Papakiko
                        Papakiko 1 November 2013 01: 24 New
                        0
                        Quote: Rumata
                        For 8 years, 3 Nobel Prizes in chemistry have gone to Israel, roughly 40%, two of the three laureates this year were educated in Israel.

                        What are you talking about?
                        And in the laboratories under their guidance, mice and rabbits work, or all the same people with hardening from the former USSR?
                        We know how ideas and how-know are passed off as tacit "consent" of real carriers of ideas.
                        What else will you measure, Shnobel carriers?
                      2. Pimply
                        Pimply 1 November 2013 01: 33 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Papakiko
                        And in the laboratories under their guidance, mice and rabbits work, or all the same people with hardening from the former USSR?
                        We know how ideas and how-know are passed off as tacit "consent" of real carriers of ideas.
                        What else will you measure, Shnobel carriers?

                        You are beautiful. You hate Jews so irrationally that Hitler would envy you. Did the Jews beat you at school? Are you kidding me? They took away a crust of bread? 8)
                      3. Papakiko
                        Papakiko 1 November 2013 01: 56 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Pimply
                        You are beautiful. You hate Jews so irrationally that Hitler would envy you. Did the Jews beat you at school? Are you kidding me? They took away a crust of bread

                        I have Jewish friends and they are the ravings that the Israeli offsprings are pouring here are not scattered about. They live and earn here-here and not Israel.
                        What the hell are you and others like you allow yourself to carry nonsense and nonsense about mega-Jews and their exclusivity in everything?
                        Gather in the cenagogues and knead the clay of the high-born mega-humans and do not bring it into the light.
                        Quote: Pimply
                        They took away a crust of bread

                        Given how many officials and aligarchs are Israeli offspring, you yourself understand that this cannot go unnoticed. Something is taken away from someone.
                        Starting from roads that are built in violation of all norms and rules and ending with a dumb coffee from Israel.
                      4. Pimply
                        Pimply 1 November 2013 02: 07 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Papakiko
                        I have Jewish friends and they are the ravings that the Israeli offsprings are pouring here are not scattered about.

                        Hitler also had a Jewish doctor who was protected by a special edict. In general, almost every anti-Semite has one or more Jewish friends. Apparently, to justify their own views. See, I do not hate ALL Jews. I have reasonable reasons to hate them all. They conquered the world, robbed our money, and stick their nose everywhere? 8) All Nobel data given to Jews bought. This is so cute, so charming 8)) Adik would be proud of you.
                      5. Papakiko
                        Papakiko 1 November 2013 02: 23 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Pimply
                        Hitler also had a Jewish doctor

                        This is how Adik himself was a born Hebrew. And neither you nor other "victims of European Jewry" can overturn this fact.
                        Quote: Pimply
                        All Nobel data given to Jews bought.

                        I told you that for the USSR the Nobels were mostly in favor of literature and world peace.
                        And how many immigrants from the USSR received the Shnobel recognition after the change of their homeland and in what displenches, confirming my words?
                        Quote: Pimply
                        apparently, to justify their own views. See, I do not hate ALL Jews. I have reasonable reasons to hate them all. They conquered the world, robbed our money, and stick their nose everywhere

                        Eugene, take it and kill yourself against the wall with similar mega-Jews and clean the ether from the feces you are pouring.
                        Agafurovskie dachas will happily shelter you.
                      6. Pimply
                        Pimply 1 November 2013 02: 36 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Papakiko
                        Eugene, take it and kill yourself against the wall with similar mega-Jews and clean the ether from the feces you are pouring.

                        Sorry, but I can’t. My speeches are fragrant roses. I cover them with that drech that you are carefully pouring here. 8)
                      7. Papakiko
                        Papakiko 1 November 2013 02: 45 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Pimply
                        My speeches are fragrant roses. I cover them with that drech that you are carefully pouring here.

                        Well, yes, yes.
                        You tend to betray new unexpected facets of things.
                        You can call the financial support from "tricky" funds the Charisma of a politician.
                        To bomb a factory in a foreign country and say that this is for the safety of Israeli citizens.
                        Stolen to pass off as "honestly earned by back-breaking labor"
                        And so on and so on.
                        What is really shy here.
                      8. Pimply
                        Pimply 1 November 2013 02: 52 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Papakiko
                        You can call the financial support from "tricky" funds the Charisma of a politician.
                        To bomb a factory in a foreign country and say that this is for the safety of Israeli citizens.
                        Stolen to pass off as "honestly earned by back-breaking labor"
                        And so on and so on.
                        What is really shy here.

                        Go on. Your hatred is just amazing. Kindergarten, of course, but funny 8)
                    2. Ingvar 72
                      Ingvar 72 1 November 2013 07: 42 New
                      0
                      Quote: Pimply
                      My speeches are fragrant roses

                      It doesn’t smell its own, as they say. good
          2. Rumata
            Rumata 1 November 2013 01: 54 New
            -1
            Quote: Papakiko
            And in the laboratories under their guidance, mice and rabbits work, or all the same people with hardening from the former USSR?

            =))) Yes, of course, Ada Yonat, who, one might say, created all modern crystallography of macro-molecules from scratch, back in the 70s secretly took out scientists so that there would be people with "hardened from the former USSR". Or Dan Shekhtman, who for 30 years, despite the fact that the scientific community did not agree with him, was engaged in quasi-crystals, he had 100% of scientists from the USSR in his basement, who did not allow his optimism to fade away.
      3. Pimply
        Pimply 1 November 2013 01: 24 New
        0
        Quote: Papakiko
        Oh yeah, do not forget the Peace Prize to Barak Khuseyenovich.
        Everything is solely due to merit and intelligence and achievements.
        And look at how many Nobels are to citizens of the former USSR and for what they are appointed. Sholokhov, Pasternak, Solzhenitsyn, Sakharov, Gorbachev - like everyone, the hypocritical course of the committee is quite understandable.

        The world prize, the most controversial of all, are you a comparison with the Nobel Prize in chemistry? Or in physics? 8) That is, Zhores Alferov, or, say, Kapitsa, received awards undeservedly? 8)))) By patronage?


        Quote: Papakiko
        And who was the pope and with what money could the future first presidential of the independent Irail be formed?
        Father, Ezer (Evzor) Weizmann, served as an official in the forest rafting office.
        Nowadays, we all perfectly understand how hard work makes money from trading in natural resources and how finances are derived from taxation.

        Do you envy the fact that Weizmann's father served as an official for the rafting company?

        Oh my god, how you killed me. 8) Do you hate the Jews so much?
        1. Papakiko
          Papakiko 1 November 2013 01: 40 New
          +2
          Quote: Pimply
          Do you envy the fact that Weizmann's father served as an official for the rafting company?

          Total leash stated a well-known fact.
          Who for what money where-where-when and how much has achieved-realized.
          Quote: Pimply
          You envy that

          In this judgment, all the wretchedness of your embarrassment of Israel is promulgated.
          Steal and then praise "What a hardworking, but brainy, but all acquired by back-breaking labor." Ugh..
          Quote: Pimply
          Do you hate the Jews so much?

          You see, you don’t see what kind of nursery group?
          You rushed into arrogant ravings about a Megaizraelovsky man.
          I pointed out to you his highly born roots.
          Next, a wounded kaka from pride and arrogance begins to climb out of you.
          You have difficulties in waving hatred towards all other nations, and especially to the BIG HOMELAND Russia and Russian
          Quote: Pimply
          That is, Zhores Alferov, or, say, Kapitsa, received awards undeservedly?

          These are units, grains, grains of sand in comparison with the distribution of elephants to other laureates.
          Quote: Rumata
          For 8 years, 3 Nobel prizes in chemistry have gone to Israel, roughly speaking 40%

          And confirmation please, there is no need to go far.
        2. Pimply
          Pimply 1 November 2013 01: 43 New
          0
          Quote: Papakiko
          You have difficulties in waving hatred towards all other nations, and especially towards the BIG HOMELAND of Russia and the Russians

          Ah, how beautiful you are! 8) Bravo! Medal for saliva spray them. A. Hitler Yours 8))
        3. Papakiko
          Papakiko 1 November 2013 02: 12 New
          0
          Quote: Pimply
          Medal for saliva spray them. A. Hitler yours

          Why are you poking me with Adolf Ivanovich?
          Sometimes you read and see sound thoughts and arguments, imbued with respect.
          And sometimes you start to carry such nonsense that you are amazed.
          You yourself are like, not dumb?
        4. Pimply
          Pimply 1 November 2013 02: 24 New
          +1
          Quote: Papakiko
          Why are you poking me with Adolf Ivanovich?

          Because he clearly speaks with your mouth.
        5. Papakiko
          Papakiko 1 November 2013 02: 35 New
          0
          Quote: Pimply
          Because he clearly speaks with your mouth.

          You apparently his nephew once clearly determine what lips and what he says.
          As is the case with the first and seventh presidential Izrilovsky probably. You have democracy and extremely respected people who are elected from a narrow circle of 10-15 families.
          -This is our boatswain, this is our pilot ..
          -Oh, yes, here are all your Katzman!

          Why didn’t they answer the rest?
          Sometimes you read and see sound thoughts and arguments, imbued with respect.
          And sometimes you start to carry such nonsense that you are amazed.
          You yourself are like, not dumb?
        6. Pimply
          Pimply 1 November 2013 02: 43 New
          0
          Quote: Papakiko

          You apparently his nephew once clearly determine what lips and what he says.
          As is the case with the first and seventh presidential Izrilovsky probably. You have democracy and extremely respected people who are elected from a narrow circle of 10-15 families.
          -This is our boatswain, this is our pilot ..
          -Oh, yes, here are all your Katzman!

          Ek hated you in hate. Go on, it's so beautiful. Be careful only, do not choke on 8)
          Quote: Papakiko
          Why didn’t they answer the rest?
          Sometimes you read and see sound thoughts and arguments, imbued with respect.
          And sometimes you start to carry such nonsense that you are amazed.
          You yourself are like, not dumb?

          And what to answer? To the hysterical flow of non-independence, prejudice, lack of knowledge on the issues and confidence in their own infallibility? So you yourself pronounced all sentences, condemned everyone, and all decided.

          You see, you are blatantly illiterate, delightfully ignorant, and stunningly xenophobic. To be honest, I just enjoy your outpourings 8)
        7. Papakiko
          Papakiko 1 November 2013 03: 00 New
          +1
          Quote: Pimply
          On the hysterical flow of non-independence, prejudice

          belay daragaya editors, well, at least you were unfaithful with burdensome consequences for you.
          Quote: Pimply
          lack of knowledge

          Hey in the "carrot" you tie "smoke" there, return to the ground.
          Quote: Pimply
          confidence in your own infallibility

          Holy, holy me, where did I identify myself with my Roman mother?
          Quote: Pimply
          To be honest, I just enjoy your outpourings

          Growing higher, you called these outpourings the drech and your judgments with the scent of roses. Now you are enjoying this drech.
          Strange deeds of God's chosen people.
  3. Rumata
    Rumata 1 November 2013 02: 08 New
    +1
    Quote: Papakiko
    And confirmation please, there is no need to go far.

    http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%81%D0%BE%D0%BA_%D0%BB%D0%B0%D
    1%83%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%B2_%D0%9D%D0%BE%D0%B1%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0
    %B2%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B9_%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%BC%D0%B8%D0%B8_%D0%BF%D0%BE_%D
    1%85%D0%B8%D0%BC%D0%B8%D0%B8
  • Misantrop
    Misantrop 1 November 2013 01: 49 New
    +1
    Quote: Pimply
    about the quality of the technical school of Israel, or about its origin?

    Quote: Pimply
    This greatly helped the British in The First World.

    Weizmann also invented a time machine? belay lol Maybe you should not confuse nationality with statehood? what
    So you can even agree that Israel has the world's most powerful nuclear submarine fleet (due to Admiral Rickover’s nationality) laughing
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 1 November 2013 01: 54 New
      0
      Quote: Misantrop
      Weizmann also invented a time machine? Maybe you should not confuse nationality with statehood?

      Are you aware of which Weizmann? It's about Chaim Weizmann, the first president of Israel, uncle of the seventh president of Israel, Ezer Weizman, founder of the Weizmann Institute. In particular, he made a great contribution to the formation of the scientific base of the Haifa Technion. which for a moment, is one of the hundred best universities in the world, ahead of Moscow State University.
      1. Papakiko
        Papakiko 1 November 2013 02: 06 New
        +1
        Quote: Pimply
        which for a moment, is one of the hundred best universities in the world, ahead of Moscow State University.

        Another nonsense.
        Who makes up these lists and rank sheets?
        The USSR proved the existence of the Atomic Fleet, nuclear weapons and other devices to the whole world, what science and education was and is.
        Only our educational institutions were not on the "thieves" lists. And even now it is not too much.
      2. Pimply
        Pimply 1 November 2013 02: 11 New
        +1
        Quote: Papakiko
        Another nonsense.
        Who makes up these lists and rank sheets?
        The USSR proved the existence of the Atomic Fleet, nuclear weapons and other devices to the whole world, what science and education was and is.
        Only our educational institutions were not on the "thieves" lists. And even now it is not too much.

        Bravo, especially pro thieves. I wonder who studied at MGIMO? 8) And now there are no thieves either 8))) Re-read Goblin about how in the USSR everything was fair and communism?
      3. Papakiko
        Papakiko 1 November 2013 02: 28 New
        -1
        Quote: Pimply
        Re-read Goblin about how in the USSR everything was fair and communism

        Everything fell into place.
        Go to bed, baby time is long gone.
        Quote: Pimply
        Quote: Papakiko Another nonsense. Who makes up these lists and tables of ranks? The USSR, with the presence of the Atomic Fleet, nuclear weapons and other devices, proved to the whole world what science and education was and is. Only in the "thieves" lists were not our educational institutions. Yes, and now not too much. Bravo, especially about thieves. I wonder who studied at MGIMO

        Go to sleep and do not smack nonsense.
      4. Pimply
        Pimply 1 November 2013 02: 38 New
        +1
        Quote: Papakiko
        Go to sleep and do not smack nonsense.

        I am not a special fan of BDSM. And here you are. Lack of thieves in Soviet universities? Oh well. 8))
      5. Papakiko
        Papakiko 1 November 2013 03: 11 New
        0
        Zhenya.
        I wrote in a post:
        Only our educational institutions were not on the "thieves" lists. And even now it is not too much.
        This was in response to yours:which for a moment, is one of the hundred best universities in the world, ahead of Moscow State University.(it’s not our fault that your college entered the list for a moment)
        What does it have to do with it?
        Quote: Pimply
        And here you are. Lack of thieves in Soviet universities? Oh well

        Take any pills from distracted or frustrated personality.
  • Rumata
    Rumata 1 November 2013 02: 27 New
    0
    Quote: Papakiko
    Another nonsense.
    Who makes up these lists and rank sheets?

    Of course, everything was bought, someone would doubt it. Such ratings have criteria ranging from the quantity and quality of publications to the awards and living conditions of students.
    For example, there is the so-called "Shanghai University Ranking", which many consider the most neutral. There is a Technion
    1.Engineering/Technology - 46th in the world
    2. Natural Sciences and Mathematics - 38th place
    3. Mathematics - in a group of 51-71 places
    4. Chemistry - 38th place
    5. Computer Science - 18 (!!!!) place
    This despite the fact that the first 15-20 places, rightly, for all sorts of Berkeley, MIT, Princeton and Stanford ... In the top 25 Computer Science, 22 universities from the United States, one British and two Israeli. And this is in any rating, but of course the Jews all bought

    http://www.shanghairanking.com/index.html
  • bif
    bif 31 October 2013 23: 58 New
    0
    The basis of military science in RUSSIA is primarily physical principles, and even if necessary statistics, extrapolation and miscalculation of probability.
    And now to our foolish argument by nature, here's an analogy for you to simplify understanding my cape.
    You came to a car shop and bought an expensive and powerful car with the aim of participating in the RACING, after the test drive you were told that the car does not go more than 150 km / h and is suitable for "chasers with yard guys", and you have nothing to do on the track. And then your answer: "This is all bullshit, I will lower the wheels for them, so let's go to the track"
    Israel itself has developed its nuclear weapons, it seems to be rumored to be jointly with South Africa. Yeah .. I did everything myself.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 1 November 2013 00: 13 New
      +2
      Quote: bif
      The basis of military science in RUSSIA is primarily physical principles

      And under the USSR, probability theory was at the core. Maybe because in the RF Armed Forces there are so many problems?


      Quote: bif
      And now to our foolish argument by nature

      Of course stupid
      -And who is stronger, a whale or an elephant?
      -Kit, he is heavier
      -And if an elephant takes a chainsaw ...
  • Pimply
    Pimply 1 November 2013 00: 27 New
    +1
    Quote: Spade
    Oooh, my friend ... All military science is built solely on probabilities. War is such a thing, during which you cannot be sure of anything at 100%. Even the inefficiency of the Israeli missile defense.
    Israel itself has developed its nuclear weapons, it seems to be rumored to be jointly with South Africa.

    With France. France got cheap heavy water technology. With South Africa, apparently, conducted tests and helped to create a bomb in exchange for uranium.
  • timsn
    timsn 5 November 2013 18: 00 New
    0
    In a real confrontation, all possible resources and capabilities are always used for the effective conduct of hostilities. Those. there will never be such that, as in exercises, a war only goes on between separate arms of service. The real confrontation is always complex, you can see it even in chess, if you try to play, the opponent will not beat you off only with a queen or only pawns - he, like you, will use the entire arsenal of pieces and all possible tactical decisions.
    Counting the number of missiles is a fascinating thing, akin to counting the booty that Robinson pulled from a sunken ship wink but this does not make this article a serious analytical work. Rather, it is a list of iron that excites militant civilians.
  • bif
    bif 1 November 2013 00: 20 New
    -2
    Quote: Spade
    Moreover, Israel has rich technical capabilities to implement it. Including nuclear weapons.

    The presence of nuclear weapons in Israel, as well as the existence of Israel itself in its current form, is a QUESTION of time ...
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 1 November 2013 00: 29 New
      +5
      Quote: bif
      The presence of nuclear weapons in Israel, as well as the existence of Israel itself in its current form, is a QUESTION of time ...

      I mean, communism all over the world, there are no more states ..? I do not think that this will happen in the foreseeable future.

      Dear, I am from Russia. Our state has been “ruined” by various soothsayers in their speeches since its inception. And nothing, we smoke slowly. And soothsayers postpone the entire date. So it is with Israel. The Arabs were supposed to crush them exactly at the time of its creation. But no, it didn't work
      1. Rav Seren
        Rav Seren 10 December 2013 12: 24 New
        +1
        Of course, I am against the collapse of the Russian Federation. But it breaks up. In 1991, the USSR collapsed, i.e., large territories fell away. The Russian Federation = this is an objective reality - it holds only due to the export of energy carriers. And if prices fall?
  • Professor
    Professor 31 October 2013 12: 27 New
    +1
    Quote: bif
    One of the most sober and unbiased articles on Israeli missile defense.

    Oh yeah. Especially sober in the height of interception in 300 km. laughing
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 31 October 2013 14: 17 New
      -1
      Quote: Professor
      Oh yeah. Especially sober in the height of interception in 300 km.

      It’s even funnier that now Tamir costs not 100 thousand, but several thousand dollars.
      1. Professor
        Professor 31 October 2013 14: 46 New
        0
        Quote: Pimply
        Quote: Professor
        Oh yeah. Especially sober in the height of interception in 300 km.

        It’s even funnier that now Tamir costs not 100 thousand, but several thousand dollars.

        Probably tens of thousands. I do not believe that such a rocket can be made in 30-40 thousand shekels. There is one BOM for a couple of tens of thousands.
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 31 October 2013 14: 49 New
          0
          Quote: Professor
          Probably tens of thousands. I do not believe that such a rocket can be made in 30-40 thousand shekels. There is one BOM for a couple of tens of thousands.

          Prof, I brought the proof, a little lower. With reference to the developer. They drastically reduced the cost of blogging to reduce the number of sensors - and the main cost was in them.

          http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4358626,00.html
          1. The comment was deleted.
        2. 3.7.964
          3.7.964 1 November 2013 01: 55 New
          -1
          Quote: Professor
          I do not believe that such a rocket can be made for 30-40 thousand shekels.

          No, this is not Rio De Janeiro ... (.. But 500 shekels, a helmet, can save the Giant Thoughts ..) I will give you a parabellum, you will shoot ...))) laughing
      2. atalef
        atalef 31 October 2013 20: 22 New
        0
        Quote: Pimply
        It’s even funnier that now Tamir costs not 100 thousand, but several thousand dollars.

        It’s even funnier which country (of our potential enemies) will survive the 20-30 day war with Israel
        The author writes nonsense. implying that during the 20-30 daytime massive missile strike. we will go into a dead defense and will not even answer.
        There will be no 20-30 day war here, everything will end much earlier.
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 31 October 2013 21: 05 New
          +2
          Quote: atalef
          Quote: Pimply
          It’s even funnier that now Tamir costs not 100 thousand, but several thousand dollars.

          It’s even funnier which country (of our potential enemies) will survive the 20-30 day war with Israel
          The author writes nonsense. implying that during the 20-30 daytime massive missile strike. we will go into a dead defense and will not even answer.
          There will be no 20-30 day war here, everything will end much earlier.


          But hatred is not necessary. The second Lebanese lasted a month, and, in theory, would have lasted more.
          1. Rav Seren
            Rav Seren 10 December 2013 11: 53 New
            +1
            Month. But then :
            1. There was no Dome yet
            2. The results in the end - not a single shelling by Hezbollah.
  • atalef
    atalef 31 October 2013 20: 18 New
    +2
    Quote: bif
    If there is a desire to allow the influence of these factors - Israel’s response to the enemy

    And it should not be allowed or not, it will definitely be. And there was never a case that the shelling of Israel would remain unanswered

    Quote: bif
    then let's assume that the enemy’s missiles are not Scuda and Fateh, but Point-U, Caliber, Iskander, etc. and the most fantastic scenario - a couple of Liners ... from under the water

    But this is already an assumption, because these weapons of none of our neighbors will appear or be destroyed before. how to get to the starting position. Ask Assad about this.
  • Pimply
    Pimply 31 October 2013 14: 16 New
    0
    Quote: Spade
    Not quite the case. The expert took as a postulate that Israel would go on the defensive without striking at the enemy’s attack facilities and infrastructure. But this is a fantastic scenario.

    He also underestimated the number of potentially destroyed missiles (in the Second Lebanon, 80 percent of Hezbollah’s missile potential was immediately removed). For some reason, he estimates the potential loss of the enemy in a third.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 31 October 2013 14: 24 New
      +3
      I think that they have restored their missile potential a long time ago, and even improved it. I saw recently photos of their MLRS on the basis of trucks - and you can’t say that the semi-partisan formation riveted them. And ours would not refuse.
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 31 October 2013 14: 44 New
        0
        Quote: Spade
        I think that they have restored their missile potential a long time ago, and even improved it. I saw recently photos of their MLRS on the basis of trucks - and you can’t say that the semi-partisan formation riveted them. And ours would not refuse.

        Restored, restored. They are actively sponsored by Iran. Estimation of missile potential is approximately 50-70 of thousands of missiles.
    2. beard999
      beard999 31 October 2013 15: 58 New
      +2
      Quote: Pimply
      in Lebanon’s second, they immediately took out 80 percent of Hezbollah’s missile potential

      Where did this information come from? Give a link? It is strange that no one called the exact number of Hezbollah’s missiles before the July 2006 war. All figures were estimates and their scatter, in different sources, was very large. And you claim that "immediately they took out 80 percent of the missile potential." More like banal propaganda than real numbers.
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 31 October 2013 16: 14 New
        -1
        http://lenta.ru/news/2006/08/17/turkey/

        Proof An approximate assessment was called, in addition, more accurate estimates appeared during the war.
        1. beard999
          beard999 31 October 2013 20: 15 New
          +1
          Quote: Pimply
          Estimated estimate

          So “80%” of how many missiles? And how, without control of the land area where Hezbollah’s missile arsenals were located, can we call a single digit (even without scatter) in 80%?
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 31 October 2013 21: 18 New
            +1
            Quote: beard999
            So “80%” of how many missiles? And how, without control of the land area where Hezbollah’s missile arsenals were located, can we call a single digit (even without scatter) in 80%?


            There is such a thing as the data of the interchange, right?

            There are statements by Hassan Nasrallah made in Beirut on 23 on May 2006:
            "The entire Israeli north is within the range of our missiles. All ports, all military bases, all industrial enterprises and other facilities located in this area. Our forces currently have over 12 thousand missiles. And when I say" over 12 thousand. " , it should not be understood that we have no more than 13 thousand missiles. "

            According to Israeli data, there were:

            1. Subdivision of heavy rockets, with a distance of about 200 km. T.N. "Subdivision of Imam Rada". It developed between Beirut and the Awali River. The source of rockets is Iran.

            2. Subdivision of medium rockets, distance up to 100 km. T.N. "Unit 1400". Deployed south of the Avali River. The source of the missiles is Syria.

            3. Subdivision of light rockets ("katyushi"), a distance of 7-20 km, a certain number of rockets with a distance of up to 40 km. T.N. "Division of Nacer". He had about 13,000 missiles at his disposal. Deployed in the south of Lebanon, near the Israel border.

            Among other things, there were also 220-mm and 302-mm Fajer-3 and Fajer-5 with a range of 45-70km in the amount of about 1000 pieces, as well as Zelzal-2 in the amount of several dozen (range - 200 km).

            The report is given by Dr. Zvi Stauber, head of the Institute for Strategic Studies, as well as General Giora Roma.
            1. beard999
              beard999 1 November 2013 17: 28 New
              +1
              Quote: Pimply
              There is such a thing as the data of the interchange, right?

              Right. Only any data requires confirmation. In general, it’s good that you wrote so much about Hezbollah’s weapons. But have you listed the entire Hezbollah arsenal? Hezbollah had RS MLRS: 107 mm Haseb, 122 mm Arash, 240 mm Fajr-3, 240 mm Falaq-1, 333 mm Fajr-5, 333 mm Falaq-2 "; tactical missiles: 170 mm Fateh-110, 230 mm Ogab, 610 mm Zelzal-2. And this is not all, there was also exotic, including self-made in completely unknown quantities. Now look at the numbers. For example, Israel before the outbreak of hostilities spoke of the presence of Hezbollah about 7500 RS caliber 122 and 107 mm. But for example, JIR, as well as European and Arab sources, assured that Hezbollah had only 70000 of these missiles - 100000 pieces !!! If you wish, I can throw a link. And for example, the ambassador in Lebanon, Bukin, referring to the Foreign Intelligence Service, in the summer of 2006, claimed that Hezbollah had rockets with a caliber over 100 mm that had "about 25000 pieces." As you can see, the statements were made unmeasured, incl. completely independent sources, and the discrepancy in numbers is huge. And Israeli intelligence, in this case, turned out to be far too omniscient (as it is not strange). A glaring example of how she overslept Hezbollah’s presence of mobile launchers with anti-ship missiles of the C-802 type, which struck the Israeli corvette ...
              But it doesn’t even matter. It is important that the figure "80%" is taken absolutely from the ceiling. To confirm it, it is necessary to at least examine the destroyed arsenals, while the IDF did not even have such an opportunity.
      2. Lopatov
        Lopatov 31 October 2013 16: 27 New
        +2
        What's the problem? Storage locations are known, air defense is practically absent. Everything that was not taken away by alarm was destroyed. Quite adequate numbers.
        1. beard999
          beard999 31 October 2013 20: 17 New
          +3
          Quote: Spade
          Quite adequate numbers

          Why would they be “adequate”? “80%” of the total number of missiles, can you say? In May 2005, Nassrala said that Hezbollah had “more than 12000 missiles,” during the war, media estimates ranged from 4000 to 25000. So, from what figure is “80%” “adequate”? You don’t know why they are talking about “percentages” and not mentioning the specific number of missiles available and destroyed? And “interest”, I’ll easily call others. Here, for example, they say about 50% of http://samsonblinded.org/newsru/10242 ("half of all missiles"). And note, all sources are exclusively Israeli. No non-Arab, no independent. But in them, successes in destroying Hezbollah’s arsenal were rated much more modestly ...
          And in the end, let anyone confirm these "estimated 80%" in Israel itself? The IDF did not even control the entire territory to Litani, and Hezbollah fought there only with a part of the forces (for example, in the combat area of ​​3000 fighters, in the combat zone there were no more than a third of the forces -east / wars-arab / livano-izrailskiy-konflik-2004
          6 /). And judging by the rocket attacks in the last few days of warfare, Hezbollah did not experience any shortage of missiles. So, “80%” is written with a pitchfork, just someone really wants to believe in them ...
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 31 October 2013 20: 34 New
            0
            Quote: beard999
            Why would they be “adequate”?

            Since such results are quite achievable. Do you have real numbers? No. So why is this storm in a glass?
            1. beard999
              beard999 1 November 2013 17: 29 New
              +1
              Quote: Spade
              Since such results are quite achievable

              “Completely achievable” and really achieved, this is far from the same thing. There are no official sources confirming the “80%” figure. Everything is exclusively at the level of speculation.
              Quote: Spade
              So why is this storm in a glass?

              Since when, please prove and argue, this is a "storm"? Judging by your automatic support for Israeli numbers (with reference to an unknown source), do you have real numbers? Or not? Then why do you believe in “80%”, and not, for example, in 50%? You are already dedicating the third post to this topic, is it not time to give any reasoning other than your “faith”?
  • mirag2
    mirag2 31 October 2013 09: 23 New
    +2
    If Israel is in the 21 place in the world in terms of living standards, if I am not mistaken, they could reduce various programs to support settlers in the Palestinian territories - and spend these laves on the missile defense system, or a long war.
    What would more money be squeezed through the US Congress?
    If even the head of the Senate Intelligence Committee (Diane Feinstein) has already begun to put pressure on Obama?
    I only say that Israel takes advantage of the USA!
    And not that they have bad weapons from which there is nothing to draw.
    Please do not confuse.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 31 October 2013 09: 34 New
      +5
      In fact, the Americans suspended the provision of military assistance to Israel. And 3.1 billion dollars that Israel was supposed to receive in 2014, he will not receive.
      1. mirag2
        mirag2 31 October 2013 09: 47 New
        +3
        And here you are mistaken, or simply do not know, since 1987 the USA has been providing military assistance under the FMF program, while Israel has the right to spend up to 25% of this money on its military needs (unlike all other states receiving assistance under this program) .
        In fact, the amount of this assistance in 2008-2013 ranged from 2.9-3.1 billion dollars a year.
        In 2013, a new agreement was signed, according to which the United States undertook additional obligations to provide assistance for 2018-2027 - to increase the amount of assistance by 10 billion dollars (i.e., not 2.9-3.1 billion, but 4 billion dollars per year) -that is. ...
        ps Israel is concerned about the suspension of military assistance to Egypt in 2013.
        Aid to Israel was suspended due to the "closure" of funding for the US government - when did Obama negotiate with Congress there? In October this year?
        Believe More Professors ...
        1. Professor
          Professor 31 October 2013 10: 05 New
          +1
          Quote: mirag2
          Believe More Professors ...

          Believe the facts.
          In god we trust; all others bring data.
      2. Professor
        Professor 31 October 2013 10: 04 New
        0
        Quote: Spade
        And 3.1 billion dollars that Israel was supposed to receive in 2014, he will not receive.

        Received, the delay was technical and everything was settled.
      3. Pimply
        Pimply 31 October 2013 14: 20 New
        +1
        Quote: Spade
        In fact, the Americans suspended the provision of military assistance to Israel. And 3.1 billion dollars that Israel should have received in 2014, he will not receive

        Gets, there is a small reduction in a number of programs.
      4. atalef
        atalef 31 October 2013 20: 25 New
        0
        Quote: Spade
        And 3.1 billion dollars that Israel was supposed to receive in 2014, he will not receive.
        not so much money (although the fact of the suspension is not true). The budget of the Moscow Region is over 20 billion.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 31 October 2013 20: 43 New
          0
          Quote: atalef
          MO budget over 20 billion

          ? I heard about a different figure, a quarter less.
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 31 October 2013 21: 24 New
            0
            Quote: Spade
            ? I heard about a different figure, a quarter less.

            Absolutely.
        2. Pimply
          Pimply 31 October 2013 21: 23 New
          0
          Budget Mo 45 billion shekels.
    2. Pimply
      Pimply 31 October 2013 14: 20 New
      -1
      Quote: mirag2
      If Israel is in the 21 place in the world in terms of living standards, if I am not mistaken, they could reduce various programs to support settlers in the Palestinian territories - and spend these laves on the missile defense system, or a long war.

      And which programs? These settlers, as it were, are large industrial and agricultural producers. For example, the small settlement of Barkan alone, in which 1200 people live, employs 3000 people.
      1. mirag2
        mirag2 31 October 2013 14: 40 New
        +2
        Well, albeit not specifically these- I hope you don’t want to say that you don’t have none social program?
        How about supporting "Orthodox" Jews?
        Or is it purely on donations?
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 31 October 2013 14: 46 New
          +2
          Quote: mirag2
          Well, well, if not specifically these, I hope you do not want to say that you do not have a single social program?
          How about supporting "Orthodox" Jews?
          Or is it purely on donations?

          Why say that there are no social support programs? But they are common. No, there are also targeted ones. But some of the programs are stipulated by coalition agreements.
        2. Rav Seren
          Rav Seren 10 December 2013 12: 03 New
          +2
          Loafers with paisers really need to stop paying content just like that.
    3. Dezzed
      Dezzed 31 October 2013 20: 16 New
      0
      Quote: mirag2
      could reduce various settler support programs in the Palestinian territories


      Thanks for the valuable advice!
  • samoletil18
    samoletil18 31 October 2013 16: 45 New
    +1
    This is how it is for any economy. And when for the destruction of a projectile from the "hail" or a converted missile from the S-75, 2 rounds costing from $ 100000. Who would shoot in the USA like that?
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 31 October 2013 16: 51 New
      +2
      Tamir is currently worth several thousand dollars.
    2. Rumata
      Rumata 1 November 2013 01: 00 New
      +2
      Quote: samoletil18
      This is how it is for any economy. And when for the destruction of a projectile from the "hail" or a converted missile from the S-75, 2 rounds costing from $ 100000. Who would shoot in the USA like that?

      It's like the question is whether to buy a bronik for 1000 bucks to stop a bullet for 50 cents. A dead soldier will cost the country as a couple of hundred armor plates, a fallen missile worth a couple of tens of thousands can cause damage to a couple of millions. WITH
    3. Rav Seren
      Rav Seren 10 December 2013 12: 05 New
      +1
      The cost of "Tamir" has been reduced - according to various estimates, from 500 to 1 dollars. And besides, what difference does it make how much a missile is fired if it destroys a house worth hundreds of thousands of dollars when it hits and kills people?
  • Dezzed
    Dezzed 31 October 2013 20: 13 New
    -1
    A long war is a luxury that no one can afford.
  • Professor
    Professor 31 October 2013 09: 15 New
    10
    Dr. Nathan Faber, a well-known specialist in missile defense systems (ABM), believes that the Israeli missile defense system will not withstand missile attacks in a 20-30 day war.

    And he does not have to withstand blows in such a long period. After the Second Lebanese, they came to the conclusion that only Tsahal’s armored vehicles on launch sites can prevent rocket attacks.

    The existing Arrow-2 missile defense system is capable of intercepting mainly Syrian Scud missiles (B, C, D) with a range of 300-700 km. They can be shot down over the territory of Israel and the West Bank at an altitude of 30-100 km.

    What kind of specialist is he if he carries such nonsense? The width of Israel including the West Bank is only about 100 km. Continue the alignment?

    Arrow-3 will be capable of intercepting Iranian Shihab missiles (range 1300 km) at an altitude of 250-300 km hundreds of kilometers (over Jordan) from the Israeli border. In the future, Arrow-3 will also have to intercept Segil missiles with a range of up to 2 thousand km.

    At an altitude of 300 km? Yah?

    Faber calculated that in the next war, Israel would be threatened: about 800 Iranian ballistic missiles ...

    They do not have such a number of missiles with such a range.

    Thus, to defeat 400 ballistic missiles, it is necessary to have 800-1000 Arrow-2 (3) interceptors worth $ 2,4-3 billion (one missile costs $ 3 million).

    The "specialist" is floating. Firstly, only a missile aimed at a settlement or a strategic object is intercepted, and we have already observed the accuracy of Arab missiles. Secondly, who will let them calmly release as many as 400 missiles?

    Продолжение следует ...
    1. Professor
      Professor 31 October 2013 09: 26 New
      -1
      At the same time, Faber claims that the probability of interception of this system is 66% against 85% according to the developers and the military. To justify the latter, that 66% is better than zero, the specialist reasonably declares that "the lives of people are saved not by the Iron Dome, but by the bomb shelters in which they hide during a missile attack."

      I wonder where did he suck 66% from? And by the way, who compares bomb shelters and LCDs. And even here the "specialist" is cunning. How do people get into bomb shelters? That's right, the LCD alert system is doing its job.

      Faber asks: “Can anyone believe in the wisdom of an event of this magnitude?” and the wife himself answers, “No one can believe. It's about nonsense. ”

      It seems like a "specialist" and Israeli, but he cannot read Hebrew. The Air Force command has very clearly and publicly stated that in the event of a major conflict with the massive use of missiles, the JK will protect exclusively strategic objects, and not villages as it is now (including Arab ones). For this it was created.

      Faber confirms this conclusion by the fact that under combat conditions ballistic missile interception systems were not tested and its effectiveness has not yet been evaluated.

      The IDPs of the IDF have combat experience like no other. Tests are carried out constantly and in spite of everything. An example is the launch of a missile detected by Armavir.

      And the David Sling system has not yet been tested and its operational capabilities are unknown.

      I see how the "specialist" knows the operational capabilities. wassat

      PS
      It didn’t get into this article how he got excited that the LCD was not capable of intercepting a rocket launched along a flat trajectory over a distance of 4 km ... fool
      1. Canep
        Canep 31 October 2013 09: 37 New
        +5
        Quote: Professor
        And he does not have to withstand blows in such a long period. After the Second Lebanese, they came to the conclusion that only Tsahal’s armored vehicles on launch sites can prevent rocket attacks.

        I just wanted to write, but you already spoke out. That's right, if you have only missile defense, then you lose the war to any enemy who has something else besides rockets (at least one AK). A missile defense is needed only at the first moment of the war to repulse a sudden attack, then the aircraft destroys the launchers and the CP, then the ground forces clear the territory. 20 days to reflect missile strikes or not taking anything in response will not even be an idiot. Good to you Professor.
      2. atalef
        atalef 31 October 2013 20: 34 New
        0
        In general, I also searched for Dr. Natan Faber in the list of workers or teachers of the Technion. Maybe someone will dig better than me and determine. what department and in general who is that?
    2. T-130
      T-130 31 October 2013 13: 03 New
      +1
      Do you know exactly how many missiles they have, and then how will the armored vehicles get to Iran? After all, there is no common border, and moving through the territories of Iraq or Syria is not very safe and their authorities will not like it.
      1. Dezzed
        Dezzed 31 October 2013 20: 21 New
        -1
        Quote: T-130
        And then how will the armored vehicles get to Iran?


        Why "armored vehicles"? can send Jericho 1/2
    3. Aaron Zawi
      Aaron Zawi 31 October 2013 19: 06 New
      +4
      Quote: Professor

      What kind of specialist is he if he carries such nonsense? The width of Israel including the West Bank is only about 100 km. Continue the alignment?

      Dr. Nathan Faber is a former deputy for science in the rocketry department at TAAS. He is a participant in the project of the competitor of the Iron Dome - Skyguard. Well, the person is offended that his competitors have bypassed him. But on the other hand, no one has died from criticism. If such articles make our generals clear their brains once again, then this is not at all a bad thing.
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 31 October 2013 19: 23 New
        +1
        Quote: Aron Zaavi
        Dr. Nathan Faber is a former deputy for science in the rocketry department at TAAS. He is a participant in the project of the competitor of the Iron Dome - Skyguard. Well, the person is offended that his competitors have bypassed him. But on the other hand, no one has died from criticism. If such articles make our generals clear their brains once again, then this is not at all a bad thing.

        Argumentation he certainly so-so.
      2. atalef
        atalef 31 October 2013 20: 35 New
        +1
        Quote: Aron Zaavi
        Dr. Nathan Faber, former deputy director of science at the Department of Missile Technology at TAAS

        What does the Technion have to do with it?
        1. Professor
          Professor 31 October 2013 22: 48 New
          +1
          Quote: atalef
          What does the Technion have to do with it?

          He was having a meal in the buffet ...
        2. Aaron Zawi
          Aaron Zawi 31 October 2013 22: 54 New
          +2
          Quote: atalef
          Quote: Aron Zaavi
          Dr. Nathan Faber, former deputy director of science at the Department of Missile Technology at TAAS

          What does the Technion have to do with it?

          Freelance.
  • ed65b
    ed65b 31 October 2013 09: 20 New
    +4
    What other options do the Jews have? no them. They cannot surrender to the Arabs. so there’s only one thing left, to build up missile defense regardless of the cost. Which they will certainly do. Well, in the case of a critical moment for the state, I have no doubt that they will deliver a nuclear strike against the enemy. as they say they use the last argument of the kings.
    1. tlauicol
      tlauicol 31 October 2013 09: 30 New
      +1
      the best defense is attack. destroy missiles in warehouses and at the time of deployment no one was able to stop them. they bombed the airfields and stole the radar and blew up weapons in Italy, and then they boarded it, and the scientists were liquidated and the reactors bombed - there are a lot of options. stupidly watch how they will not be shot
  • Katsin1
    Katsin1 31 October 2013 09: 22 New
    +3
    The real problem is small missiles: Katyusha and Grad. Long-range missiles our Air Force can detect and destroy well before launch
    1. Rav Seren
      Rav Seren 10 December 2013 12: 10 New
      +1
      The dome and now, with only a quarter of the batteries, is shooting down 92-94 percent of potentially dangerous missiles and RS
  • scientist
    scientist 31 October 2013 09: 28 New
    +3
    If, at least 10th part of these billions was allowed to settle relations between Israel and its neighbors, the effect would be much greater. But it seems that neither Israel nor the United States needs a peace in the Middle East. The military business is still the most profitable.
    1. Professor
      Professor 31 October 2013 09: 35 New
      +2
      Quote: scientist
      If, at least 10th part of these billions was allowed to settle relations between Israel and its neighbors, the effect would be much greater. But it seems that neither Israel nor the United States needs a peace in the Middle East. The military business is still the most profitable.

      Nonsense you say. billions and billions are spent "on the settlement of Israel's relations with its neighbors," and the effect is "0". Tricky question. When will the so-called problems of the Palestinian "refugees" be settled if they are cared for by a special UN structure called the UNRA, which employs (with excellent salaries) 30000 (thirty thousand) people? The correct answer is never.
      1. mirag2
        mirag2 31 October 2013 11: 22 New
        +2
        Is it for the treatment of militants from the anti-Asadav opposition? hi
        1. Professor
          Professor 31 October 2013 12: 10 New
          0
          Quote: mirag2
          Is it for the treatment of militants from the anti-Asadav opposition? hi

          You all know. You know that with this American money you can buy equipment exclusively in America? You know that the MoD and the Israeli Ministry of Health are still arguing who will pay for the treatment of the Syrians? You know how many hospitalized children and women?
          1. mirag2
            mirag2 31 October 2013 13: 36 New
            +2
            No, unfortunately, I know far from everything.
            Maybe just a little more than anyone would like, but not all.
            ps I beg your pardon: Hello again.
            It was occupied precisely with the search for various differences, including knowledge (grains of truth in the main filler of the bottom of the Dead Sea).
            recourse
          2. mirag2
            mirag2 31 October 2013 13: 43 New
            0
            Yes? And I thought that they already finally stopped arguing about it, but while they are arguing, these thousands of hospitalized children and women will die inadvertently ...
            I thought that from the bounty of the soul and thirst to spend billions and billions on the settlement of relations with neighbors, and one and the other department offered their help together ...
            1. Professor
              Professor 31 October 2013 13: 51 New
              +1
              Here is some more information. In Israel, an account is provided after medical services are provided, and not before. And we are talking about dozens, not thousands of hospitalized.
              1. mirag2
                mirag2 31 October 2013 14: 22 New
                +2
                I apologize that I’m not very on the topic, I hope to understand the humor, I wanted to joke, to say that of course, I know, I’m lying in Tel Hashomer myself, I’m healing my heart ...
                And there, along the way, there really is cardiology, I thought it was a pure psychiatric hospital.
                That is, I would tell you that I’m treating my heart at such an address (and this is a psychiatric hospital) - and I’m wondering how you would react (if, for example, you knew that Tel Hashomer was pure psychiatry).
                1. Pimply
                  Pimply 31 October 2013 14: 48 New
                  +2
                  Quote: mirag2
                  And there, along the way, there really is cardiology, I thought it was a pure psychiatric hospital.
                  That is, I would tell you that I’m treating my heart at such an address (and this is a psychiatric hospital) - and I’m wondering how you would react (if, for example, you knew that Tel Hashomer was pure psychiatry).

                  Tel HaShomer is a huge complex.
                2. Professor
                  Professor 31 October 2013 14: 53 New
                  0
                  Quote: mirag2
                  I apologize that I’m not very on the topic, I hope to understand the humor, I wanted to joke, to say that of course, I know, I’m lying in Tel Hashomer myself, I’m healing my heart ...
                  And there, along the way, there really is cardiology, I thought it was a pure psychiatric hospital.
                  That is, I would tell you that I’m treating my heart at such an address (and this is a psychiatric hospital) - and I’m wondering how you would react (if, for example, you knew that Tel Hashomer was pure psychiatry).

                  First of all, I wish you a complete recovery.
                  Secondly, psychiatry does not bother me. For example, some of my friends there were "treated" for post-traumatic stress disorder. More precisely, from allusions to him. And they are absolutely adequate people.

                  Quote: mirag2
                  And the number of victims I didn’t mean dozens- tens of thousands!

                  Dozens, not even hundreds, came to Israel.

                  Quote: mirag2
                  Yes, no, seriously, well, even so, at least in two months the bill, if they really wanted to help and cure, then such trifles would be decided.

                  You do not compare medical tourism with emergency care.
              2. mirag2
                mirag2 31 October 2013 14: 24 New
                0
                Yes, no, seriously, well, even so, at least in two months the bill, if they really wanted to help and cure, then such trifles would be decided.
              3. mirag2
                mirag2 31 October 2013 14: 43 New
                0
                And the number of victims I didn’t mean dozens- tens of thousands!
      2. Abracadabra
        Abracadabra 1 November 2013 02: 00 New
        0
        It is unlikely that forcibly evicting hordes from the Palestinian territories will cost billions and billions.
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 1 November 2013 02: 09 New
          +1
          Quote: Abra Kadabra
          It is unlikely that forcibly evicting hordes from the Palestinian territories will cost billions and billions.

          For a start - what is the Orthodox for you. Second, what are the Palestinian territories? Do you know where and how the name "green line" came from? Do you know how much it cost to evict the settlement of Yamit in the Sinai, and Gush Katif in Gaza?
          1. Abracadabra
            Abracadabra 1 November 2013 02: 49 New
            -1
            Besides the United States, with an influential Jewish lobby, is there anyone else in the world supporting Israel's "concern for the Palestinians"? Orthodox, these are religious Jews, fanatics of "Grossisrael", they then settle in the territories where the Arabs have lived for centuries. If you look at the map of the Palestinian (Palestinian?) Autonomy, it is, like Swiss cheese, dotted with such settlements, mainly on hills, elevations, each of which is surrounded by a fence and other security systems. What difference does it cost? Surely less than the protection of these settlements. And in general, this is the only reason for the enmity of the whole world towards Israel, it is this situation, the occupation of the territories where the Arabs live.
            1. Pimply
              Pimply 1 November 2013 02: 59 New
              +1
              Quote: Abra Kadabra
              Orthodox, these are religious Jews, fanatics of "Grossisrael", they then settle in the territories where the Arabs have lived for centuries.

              Which ones? More than half of the settlements are secular. A lot of ultra-Orthodox are anti-Zionists, for example. Once again - what is the Palestinian Authority? Do you know that the regulation of the Oslo Accords assigns just such islands to it at the moment? What exactly is illegal in the settlements? I just want to recall that recognition or non-recognition by another state is not part of legitimization. For example, Spain considers its Gibraaltar. And Britain - its own. Which of them is more legal?

              The potential evacuation of settlements is currently estimated at several tens of billions of dollars.
              The evacuation from Gush Katif led to the strengthening of Hamas and to an increase in defense spending.

              Quote: Abra Kadabra
              And in general, this is the only reason for the hostility of Israel to the whole world, it is this situation, the occupation of the territories where Arabs live.

              Are you laughing? The dislike of Israel "of the whole world" exists because Israel exists. That's all. As here some guys flare up, one has only to mention Israel. Why do you think a conflict that killed 50000 people in 70 years generates more hatred than conflicts that kill millions in a much shorter time?

              And you never answered - what about the situation around Gush Katif? There, according to your scheme, peace should have come. And in Lebanon, in 2000, after the departure of Israel?
              1. Abracadabra
                Abracadabra 1 November 2013 03: 53 New
                -1
                What could be worth a few "tens of billions of dollars" ??? !!! Recognition not by some other states, but by the whole world, by everyone who is represented in the UN by n.p., except for the United States. All the Antesimites, all hate Jews and Israel? Aren't you making it too easy for yourself? The stronger neighbor chopped off the land from the weaker one, that's all, this is called occupation. What was illegal about other occupations of a weaker neighbor in human history? After all, it turns out some kind of stalemate, from which people suffer, on the side of Palestine every day, sometimes in Israel, and Islamists all over the world point a finger and say, "Look, Israel, an ally of the West, is killing and humiliating our Muslim brothers!" , the same anti-Semites all see confirmation of their phobias. Neither this nor that. To build "Grosizrael", you need to kick all Palestinians / Arabs out of the occupied territory. Is it real? I think no. Another way out and the only one is 2 states, unless of course Israel and the Israelis want a solution to the conflict, they want Israel's image to rise. Rabbin Isaac was able to do it, but unfortunately one of the fans of "Grossizrail" also prestril him .. Do you seriously think that the whole world consists of anti-Semites ??! That all those who do not accept the occupation, humiliation, violence of the Israelis against the Palestinians and all this mutual hatred, all hate Israel, all anti-Semites, etc.? I am n.p. I really appreciate the contribution of Jews to science, culture, your culture, I like humor .., I respect and love so many famous Jews, I have a good friend, a Jew, and I have senseless anti-Semitism, just hatred of Jews "because they are so and so Jews ", like any adequate person is disgusting. They also talk about other wars, genocides, etc., if we are talking about today's time, but there we are talking about some half-savage, or zombified by propaganda and inflated with hatred, peoples, dictators, etc., but Israel is still considered a civilized country and they believe that the Israelis share the same values, have the same ideas about humanity as, say, the Europeans, and therefore all this boron cheese is incomprehensible.
    2. Lopatov
      Lopatov 31 October 2013 09: 41 New
      +4
      Cool. And what do you think "settlement of relations with neighbors" means? This is the first time I hear that it is so expensive.

      However, if you live in a country adjacent to Russia, then everything is clear.
    3. Dezzed
      Dezzed 31 October 2013 20: 24 New
      0
      Quote: scientist
      If, at least 10 part of these billions is allowed to settle relations between Israel and its neighbors


      We have them and gingerbread cookies and sweets, nothing helped. They are abused at us and that's it.
      1. scientist
        scientist 31 October 2013 21: 25 New
        +1
        You can carry water to the offended, also an occupation, the main thing that would be paid. And you won’t be full of gingerbread and sweets. Usually people are able to feed themselves, if they do not interfere. But if you still give them at least a fishing rod, that they would fish, then believe me, any normal person will be grateful for this, especially the whole people.
        But once again, unfortunately, the arms trade is a very profitable business. And the missile defense system is a very expensive toy, so at least 50% of these billions are deposited in the pockets of your businessmen.
        1. Dezzed
          Dezzed 1 November 2013 09: 44 New
          0
          That's why they are businessmen. most of the weapons in the world are produced by commercial companies.

          but about the fishing pole our politicians already tried in the late 90s. joint industrial zones, etc. Arab people probably were in favor, but their leaders still did not want to throw the banner of revolution.
          continuation is known.
    4. Rav Seren
      Rav Seren 10 December 2013 12: 11 New
      +1
      Israel needs one thing - to be left alone. The Arabs do not want this - they see that Israel has achieved tremendous success, that it cannot be defeated by its military force and are embarking on terror.
  • air wolf
    air wolf 31 October 2013 09: 50 New
    +1
    And my opinion on this issue is unambiguous, to perform a multiple-charge installation (batch) of an air defense system based on our R-73 air-to-air missile with modernization up to 50 km and it’s easy to destroy cheap and small targets, you just need to come up with a control and guidance system. Carapace and Tor work insufficiently efficient work up to 20 km. Then it will be air defense!
    1. Professor
      Professor 31 October 2013 10: 08 New
      0
      Quote: air wolf
      SAMs based on our R-73 air-to-air missiles with upgrades up to 50 km and cheap

      When did this air-to-air missile become cheap? wink
      1. The Indian Joe
        The Indian Joe 31 October 2013 10: 21 New
        0
        And it depends on what is cheap.
        1. Professor
          Professor 31 October 2013 10: 31 New
          -1
          Quote: Native American Joe
          And it depends on what is cheap.

          Have you decided to enter into a polemic with me in the field of knowledge of materiel? I will crush you with intelligence. bully
          Well, let’s give your materiel, how much does an air-to-air missile cost, and I’ll educate you on how much the Tamir ZhK interceptor costs?
          1. The Indian Joe
            The Indian Joe 31 October 2013 10: 57 New
            +3
            I will crush you with intelligence
            - I don't know why, I remembered the phrase of Ilf and Petrov "Who do you think is this powerful old man? Don't tell me, you cannot know this. This is a giant of thought, the father of Russian democracy and a person close to the emperor!"
            "Giant of thought", in real life you probably also offer to measure yourself with pussies, I've seen people like you)))) They walk like narcissistic turkeys, and spread slander and lies about other people - this is how you make a lie about Elena Gromova, as if she is a mercenary ...

            how much does an air-to-air missile cost
            - which one? There are several laughing But while rusty flying water pipes with explosives cost less than any Israeli missile defense system, there’s nothing to argue about - Israel is forced to pay for security, it’s cheaper to spend millions on missile defense than tens of millions on compensation and treatment.
            1. Professor
              Professor 31 October 2013 11: 01 New
              -1
              Quote: Injun Joe
              - which one? There are several

              Quote: Injun Joe
              And it depends on what is cheap.

              So what about? Let me remind you that we are talking about interceptor missiles and air-to-air missiles.
              If you also troll on this branch, then I warn you, I won’t feed. stop
              1. The Indian Joe
                The Indian Joe 31 October 2013 11: 06 New
                0
                For example, compared with the S-400.
                1. Professor
                  Professor 31 October 2013 11: 17 New
                  0
                  Quote: Native American Joe
                  For example, compared with the S-400.

                  How brightly they flashed their "knowledge". It is you S-400 who are going to shoot down "small targets" after all, it is they who are proposed to shoot down with air-to-air missiles?
                  1. The Indian Joe
                    The Indian Joe 31 October 2013 11: 29 New
                    0
                    Do you propose, in the event of firing at a target with a Qassam or Grad missile, to lift an aircraft into the air and shoot down the target with air-to-air missiles?
                    1. Professor
                      Professor 31 October 2013 12: 16 New
                      0
                      Quote: Native American Joe
                      Do you propose, in the event of firing at a target with a Qassam or Grad missile, to lift an aircraft into the air and shoot down the target with air-to-air missiles?

                      Again showed their erudition. fool air wolf Today, 09:50 suggested "to perform a multiple-charge installation (batch) of an air defense system based on our R-73 air-to-air missile with modernization up to 50 km and it’s easy to destroy small and cheap targets, you just need to come up with a control and guidance system"The idea is but new to use air-to-air missiles for ground-based air defense. For example, a Spider with Derby and Pythons. And imagine, you don't need an airplane to use them. However, the respected air wolf claims that such a missile is cheap with which I fundamentally disagree But you have entered into a conversation of adults completely without understanding what they are talking about and propose to shoot down MLRS with S-400 interceptors.
          2. mirag2
            mirag2 31 October 2013 14: 27 New
            +1
            Let me also correct you - that knowledge of the materiel (purely facts) and intelligence (not erudition) are not the same things?
            Like IMI and Raphael?
            1. Professor
              Professor 31 October 2013 14: 55 New
              +2
              Quote: mirag2
              Let me also correct you - that knowledge of the materiel (purely facts) and intelligence (not erudition) are not the same things?

              Both terms are not applicable to the character under discussion, to my greatest regret. sad
  • AK-47
    AK-47 31 October 2013 10: 39 New
    +2
    Israel’s missile defense will “drown” in repelling rocket attacks and collapse at a crucial moment ... Dr. Nathan Faber.

    Farber is a provocateur or non-Israeli citizen.
    Everyone knows that Israel, like no other state in the world, devotes unprecedented attention to the defense of its country and this is confirmed by all the years of its existence.
    What does Farber want to achieve with his article - discord and panic?
    Having discovered the tactical and strategic miscalculations of the defense, the patriot of his country would have sent a closed letter to state bodies, and would not have made public relations in the media.
    1. Professor
      Professor 31 October 2013 10: 45 New
      +2
      Quote: AK-47
      Farber is a provocateur or non-Israeli citizen.

      According to the link at the end of the article supposedly to the source says:
      Nathan Faber is a professor in the Department of Aerospace Engineering at Technion University in Haifa, an independent scientist and specialist in missile defense systems. He worked for 30 years in the military industry, including 10 years at the consulting firm Wales, a contractor for the Israeli Air Force and the Israeli security forces. He has held various positions, the latter being the chief scientist of the missile management.

      Now let's go to the website of this faculty: http://ae-www.technion.ac.il/

      Oh miracle !!! There is no such valuable specialist on the list of teaching staff.
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 31 October 2013 14: 28 New
        0
        Original, prof

        http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Analysis-Israels-missile-defense-system-could-crumb
        le-at-the-moment-of-truth-329767

        http://www.magenlaoref.org.il/doesIsraelsafe.pdf
        1. Professor
          Professor 31 October 2013 15: 07 New
          +2
          He obtained 66% by comparing it with the 2008 year and the addition of 250 mortar attacks. I think the comments are superfluous.
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 31 October 2013 15: 15 New
            +1
            Quote: Professor
            He obtained 66% by comparing it with the 2008 year and the addition of 250 mortar attacks. I think the comments are superfluous.

            About that and speech. Given that he takes the cost of the first versions of Tamir, while the price for it fell twice at least, first to 50 pieces, then to several thousand.
      2. atalef
        atalef 31 October 2013 20: 43 New
        0
        Quote: Professor
        Now we will go to the website of this faculty: http://ae-www.technion.ac.il/

        Oh miracle !!! There is no such valuable specialist on the list of teaching staff.

        I didn’t find such a valuable worker, although all the teachers and students of the Technion (including my son) are publicly available on the Technion website --- and only Farber is secret laughing
    2. atalef
      atalef 31 October 2013 20: 42 New
      +2
      Quote: AK-47
      What does Farber want to achieve with his article - discord and panic?

      I don’t know what. but here somehow I didn’t see his articles, and even if they flashed by. then no one paid attention to them since we already know. that the LCD stands, everyone or acquaintances or relatives live in the south, where they shot down hail. The country is small. you can’t be fooled, everyone knows each other.
  • rero
    rero 31 October 2013 10: 52 New
    +2
    The Syrian news portal DamPress reports that an air defense base near Latakia was fired from the sea.

    According to the publication, at least one rocket was fired from the Mediterranean Sea towards the Syrian air defense base, located near the agricultural institute in Latakia.

    At this hour, information about the victims was not reported, it is noted that the base was damaged, its degree is also not specified.

    There is no data on exactly where the rocket was launched from - from a ship, submarine or from a drone.
  • Boricello
    Boricello 31 October 2013 11: 05 New
    +1
    In general, with all due respect to the armed forces of Israel, he alone is capable of only a local war on a small scale. And during the war with Iran, even more so no matter what. Without US assistance, they simply will not reach Iran. Do not fly it will fly, but will not return back. If I am not mistaken, then Israel does not have one of its own refueling in the air. All are rented. And if they don’t? and a rather decent number of points necessary in a modern war (not a local conflict), Israel does not have.
    1. rero
      rero 31 October 2013 11: 15 New
      -6
      nasholsia ischo one "expert" aoi LOL for your information; Israel has its own refuellers b bozduhe .. Israel Daze exports such systems, this time .. Israel has repeatedly performed operations at a distance of several thousand kilometers, including air.
    2. Katsin1
      Katsin1 31 October 2013 11: 26 New
      -2
      Fly and come back, do not even hesitate ...
    3. Dezzed
      Dezzed 1 November 2013 09: 51 New
      0
      Quote: Boricello
      If I am not mistaken, then Israel does not have 1 of its own refueling in the air


      Firstly there

      secondly, what did you insert this "refueller", how is it connected with the topic?
    4. Rav Seren
      Rav Seren 10 December 2013 12: 16 New
      +1
      You are mistaken - Israel is capable of independently inflicting a military defeat on Iran in a short time, destroying its missile and nuclear potential. Israel has refueling tanks, there are S-130s converted for throwing super-heavy bombs, there are the latest missiles, and there is a multi-layer missile defense that can repel any Iranian attack. Moreover, three quarters of all Iranian achievements are photoshop.
  • Professor
    Professor 31 October 2013 11: 14 New
    +3
    Quote: Boricello
    If I am not mistaken, then Israel does not have one of its own refueling in the air. All are rented.

    You are mistaken. Tankers have their own, and refitting into tankers themselves.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 31 October 2013 11: 18 New
      +5
      By the way, as far as I know, Israel is converting into refueling aircraft for third countries. It seems to be redone for Colombia
      1. rero
        rero 31 October 2013 11: 25 New
        0
        now ischo tender for such systems in Brazil where IAI will be examined and proposed
      2. The comment was deleted.
  • Cruorvult
    Cruorvult 31 October 2013 11: 45 New
    +3
    Someone said Israel :-D
    Well, in the article, it’s something okyak with a height of up to 300 km, a little bit more and it will be possible to hit lunatics right on the moon :-D
  • nikcris
    nikcris 31 October 2013 12: 02 New
    +1
    Reading the comments of comrades from the Middle East, I remembered the films "Deep Raid" and "If there is war tomorrow" what
    You can’t relax like that. Although I admit that Israel prepared the cap not measured ...
  • In the reeds
    In the reeds 31 October 2013 12: 30 New
    +2
    The night before last, "Kipat Barzel" intercepted the "hail" flying on the sleeping city. At five in the morning. I was awakened by the noise of "Tamir" leaving for interception. The siren was a couple of seconds late. "The cost of the Iron Dome interceptors could be $ 6 billion at a price of $ 100 for one" Faber confused dollars with shekels.
  • JonnyT
    JonnyT 31 October 2013 12: 59 New
    +1
    Obviously, the main task about this is to preserve the military infrastructure structure and finally from destruction by the enemy for a subsequent retaliation strike. For civilians there is a bunker. The article rightly says that the pro price is too high for a long time of armed conflict. From this we can conclude that Israel can achieve success only in short-term military operations and, if possible, the realization of a retaliation strike without significant losses.
  • Cruorvult
    Cruorvult 31 October 2013 13: 03 New
    +1
    Well, whoever is going to unleash a big war with Israel :-D In Egypt, it will repeat itself, the AOE and the Saudis are still amers with amers, while Israel and Ian are already sanctioned, he only threatens with a finger. so it can be said if Russia is fired by all ICBMs, then you can’t stand it, your missile defense system is gagging, only the salt is that no one can cut it. They gagged about just against small zats that they hail bullets, everything works - everyone is happy.
    PS No odan about the world can withstand anything else long and massive.
    1. JonnyT
      JonnyT 31 October 2013 13: 54 New
      0
      So the solution to the Iranian issue is approaching ...... the current system about Israel is imprisoned for shelling of low intensity. It is one thing to knock down one rusty pipe a day, and another to resist hundreds of such pipes a day and more serious missiles from Syria and Iran .... and possibly Egyptian aviation. And the situation in the Middle East is exactly what’s going on ... The article focuses on increasing the number of launch installations, and not just replenishing warehouses (well, of course, to help the American military industrial complex)
      As the situation shows, Israel may be alone against the crowd of Arabs ..... just everyone will try to solve their problems ..... and the fighting against Israel to unite the Arabs.

      P.S. there is a country that has withstood massive attacks and high-intensity fighting
      1. atalef
        atalef 31 October 2013 21: 03 New
        0
        Quote: JonnyT
        So the solution to the Iranian issue is approaching ...... the current system about Israel is imprisoned for low-intensity shelling

        \ Oh, whoever, and in this matter Iran is the smallest problem, between us 1500 km and a dozen are another BR (this is all that he has) we will bring down. but no --- not fatal, Lhizballa Grads are a much bigger problem, therefore in case of war Lebanon will be occupied immediately and rolled into a pancake.
        Quote: JonnyT
        As the situation shows, Israel may be alone against the crowd of Arabs ..... just everyone will try to solve their problems ..... and the fighting against Israel to unite the Arabs.


        He always found himself alone against a crowd of Arabs, only this crowd used to consist of Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, Libya, Yemen ---- where are they all now? Who is left? Syria --- laughter, Lebanon is even larger and Iran is 1500 km away. I forgot earlier the USSR was behind all this.
        So, really look at things. There is no force in the region that can defeat Israel, bite, disrupt a quiet life, shoot - but no more. Hizbullah has been screaming for 7 years now - we are not us, but Nasrallah will not come out of the bunker. Although we consider this war unsuccessful, rather incomplete
        1. Abracadabra
          Abracadabra 1 November 2013 02: 22 New
          -3
          Israel could remove a huge heat of tension and hatred of Israelis by removing illegal, unrecognized by anyone in the world, orthodox settlements in Palestine. In my opinion, this would only bring advantages to Israel and "rip the rug out from under the feet" of the extremists from Hezbollah and Hamas, because the Palestinian Arabs themselves, for the most part, want a normal life.
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 1 November 2013 02: 34 New
            +1
            Quote: Abra Kadabra
            Israel could remove a huge heat of tension and hatred of Israelis by removing illegal, unrecognized by anyone in the world, orthodox settlements in Palestine. In my opinion, this would only bring advantages to Israel and "rip the rug out from under the feet" of the extremists from Hezbollah and Hamas, because the Palestinian Arabs themselves, for the most part, want a normal life.


            What exactly are they illegal? What is the territory of Palestine? Did the mat pull out from under the feet of extremists from Hamas Israel’s voluntary withdrawal from Gaza, for example? No, it was perceived as a victory by Hamas, and sharply spurred the popularity of the movement. Which led to the capture of Gaza by this movement. Or maybe the signing of a peace treaty with Egypt calmed the Muslim brothers in a desire to strike at Israel? Hezbollah calmed down when Israel left southern Lebanon?

            You speak like an ordinary European leftist, far from life. Give the bullet to the bully, and he will calm down. The problem is that the bully likes violence. He gets a quack from him. And he hates you: just because he hates you. Maybe because you are better than him, richer, smarter, or he just didn’t like your trousers. Or maybe just because he loves power, or doesn’t know anything else, or he wants his point of view to rule the world - and you interfere with this.

            The formula peace in exchange for territory failed. Not once or twice.
            1. Abracadabra
              Abracadabra 1 November 2013 03: 15 New
              -3
              What does the leftists have to do with it? So thinks the vast majority of the planet earth, that is all. 95% of people around the world are against such a policy of Israel, does this not give reason to think? Even in Israel, if not half, then at least a third for 2 separate states and the curtailment of settlements. Everyone sees what is happening in Palestine. The hatred of the occupied Arabs towards the Israelis and the hatred of the Wahhabis towards civilized people is not the same, even though Israel is trying to put it on a par. When did the 1st intifada start ?? When did Hamas appear and begin the attacks? Until the late 80s, there was no violence from the Palestinians! Intifada began at 87m. This was preceded by the swine, sadistic and inhumane attitude of the Israeli security forces (what do they now admit in retirement and ask themselves whether it was necessary to act so cruelly?) To the Palestinians, who, after all, did not demand anything except ending the occupation, and these humiliations and violence and join the ranks of terrorists. That Israel, which alone fought off the Arab countries, those Israelis who, despite all sorts of threats and pressure, built a prosperous state, are worthy of respect until the late 70s. But from the beginning of the 80s, right up to the present day, the Israeli policy is unacceptable towards the Palestinians.
          2. Dezzed
            Dezzed 1 November 2013 09: 55 New
            0
            Quote: Abra Kadabra
            would "rip the rug out of underfoot" from extremists from Hizbola and Hamas


            would "rip the rug out of underfoot" from extremists from Hizbola and Hamas

            The "rug" from under the feet of the extremists from Hizbola and Hamas will rip out only the sight of the Jewish people energetically crossing the Mediterranean Sea.
        2. JonnyT
          JonnyT 1 November 2013 11: 44 New
          0
          Well, whoever, and in this matter Iran is the smallest problem, between us 1500 km and a dozen - another BR (this is all that he has) we will bring down. but no --- not deadly

          a dozen? You are very optimistic .....
          If before there was a counterbalance in the form of the USSR, now it is not there ....... the swing can tip over and turn over to hell with the swinging ......
          Yes, and in the past, everything stopped due to the fact that the United States came to Egypt and they pissed off, and so everything went not in favor of Israel.
          In the past there were at least some rules of the Game, but now they are not - so I believe that absolutely any "fantastic" scenario can happen .......
          Lebanon, then you will crush there is no doubt (but partisans or terrorists will not give you peace). Syria you can’t get through .... in a year 2, the Syrians are likely to fix their air defense ..... they’ll have to stay at home, and here’s an effective pro that can repel intense attacks for a long time .....
          All this is possible only if the United States is busy with its internal problems and cannot support you ..... Israel alone will not survive
          You say that the coalition of your enemies is broken, and individually they are very weak, but imagine that in each of these states politicians cannot use this trump card. They will accuse Israel of everything to distract from internal problems ..... and people have nothing to lose there, so they live at the bottom .... it will unite them very quickly
          And yet, unfortunately, I don’t know anything about the effectiveness of your aircraft, what means it uses to overcome the enemy’s pro, just how little I know about protecting the air of Syria, Iran ..... But since much attention can be paid to the Middle East now with confidence to say that the latest innovations will be tested in the region ...... Scientists and Iranian engineers are not very stupid .... Deliveries from the Russian Federation are also possible ... Your aircraft will have to face the latest missile defense system .... but how it goes is not at all clear
    2. JonnyT
      JonnyT 31 October 2013 13: 54 New
      +1
      So the solution to the Iranian issue is approaching ...... the current system about Israel is imprisoned for shelling of low intensity. It is one thing to knock down one rusty pipe a day, and another to resist hundreds of such pipes a day and more serious missiles from Syria and Iran .... and possibly Egyptian aviation. And the situation in the Middle East is exactly what’s going on ... The article focuses on increasing the number of launch installations, and not just replenishing warehouses (well, of course, to help the American military industrial complex)
      As the situation shows, Israel may be alone against the crowd of Arabs ..... just everyone will try to solve their problems ..... and the fighting against Israel to unite the Arabs.

      P.S. there is a country that has withstood massive attacks and high-intensity fighting
  • Grisha91
    Grisha91 31 October 2013 13: 10 New
    +1
    I have little idea of ​​deploying so many missiles that Israel’s intelligence has ignored. And if we take into account the overwhelming advantage of aviation, reconnaissance and coordination of the Israeli forces, then everything that even has time to release them will be intercepted by the pro system.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • il grand casino
    il grand casino 31 October 2013 13: 21 New
    +2
    Yeah ... that's interesting, but 20-30 days of missile attacks in general, at least one software can withstand? ... Something tells me that no. The idiocy turns out. As if the Israelis will sit in bomb shelters and wait until they run out of missile defense)))) they will need a missile defense maximum in the first days. Then the neighbors won’t have any installations ... An article minus for technical mistakes (I’m not at all special, but I see them too) plus for fiction)))
  • Boricello
    Boricello 31 October 2013 13: 41 New
    -2
    C-130E "Karnaf" you call this meal refueling? laughing The hopes of the young men are nourished, the old are served as they say if you slightly rephrase Lomonosov. You, like the Americans, imagined yourself the chief. Enough. You and the Syrian opposition are not helping, but only dirtying Assad. And how do you fly to Iran? You have no direct path. Only through someone’s territory. Or from the sea. It is impossible to fly through the territory of sovereign states without permission (although you’re the bosses !!! You can do anything) From the sea it’s very expensive and those 12 pieces for a full-fledged company aren’t enough, forgive me. And you seem like amers ... They have enough of their problems now. Maybe that’s the whole idea with Assad that you could safely fly through Syrian territory? ... Yes ... Iran, with all its backwardness, is not such a militarily weak state. And how do you manage to carry out a full-scale military operation with your (I do not argue high-class Air Force) number of aircraft? There you don’t buy generals in the bud like in Iraq. And Iraq needed a coalition. 1 America would not pull. Although it is certainly where America is to the promised land. And so in 2008 you tried to buy new refuelers ... your allies refused you however.
    1. Professor
      Professor 31 October 2013 13: 45 New
      +5
      Quote: Boricello
      C-130E "Karnaf" you call this meal refueling?

      I call KC-707, and you? wink


  • Pimply
    Pimply 31 October 2013 14: 43 New
    0
    My five cents. Firstly, the cost of the Tamir missile defense, if the expert is not up to date, is several times less. The number of sensors has been reduced, which greatly reduced the cost. That is, the rocket is not 100, and not 50, but several thousand. And several thousand are less than 5000.

    http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4358626,00.html

    Next, some strange counting of the destroyed missile potential. In the early days of Second Lebanon, 80% of Hezbollah’s missile potential was carried out. And he basically speaks about 30%. Well, a bunch of other nonsense.
    1. Rav Seren
      Rav Seren 10 December 2013 11: 39 New
      +1
      Well, this "expert" counted from all the missiles and missiles fired - including those that were calculated as flying past and therefore ignored by the system.
  • ed65b
    ed65b 31 October 2013 14: 57 New
    +1
    Yes, war 20-30 days. In Russia, this is only the beginning. In Israel, the end.
    1. Aaron Zawi
      Aaron Zawi 31 October 2013 19: 08 New
      +1
      Quote: ed65b
      Yes, war 20-30 days. In Russia, this is only the beginning. In Israel, the end.

      Is it? And the "Five-day"?
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 31 October 2013 19: 25 New
        +2
        And she was not in Russia.
  • In the reeds
    In the reeds 31 October 2013 15: 41 New
    +1
    When the first radio-controlled gliders with a camera and other primitives began to be used in the IDF, the world was picking his nose with his finger. When the Serchers hung over Gaza day and night, they continued to poke around - "Sharpening for the region!" And then, forty years are lost, catch-up, overtake. The latest threats are being tested at the BTVD. And now suicide belts change permanent residence in Israel, they are no longer relevant. Primitive welded flying pipes are much more terrifying. "Kipat Barzel" is imprisoned in the pad region ... When it will cover not 150 sq. Km, but 1500. And one battery will be able to close London, Paris and Moscow. from these primitive, in the past, road signs arriving from the immigrant suburbs or Maryina Grove. Even if someone has doubts about the potential existence of such a threat, they should have been preparing for it yesterday ... The German pedants slightly refined the Leo.A6 and A7 tower from the traditional German lineup ...
  • twister
    twister 31 October 2013 15: 59 New
    -3
    Judging by the description and type in the picture, the second rocket hits its first rocket !!! What is protection, --- we are defending ourselves!
  • makarov
    makarov 31 October 2013 16: 36 New
    +2
    I can't say anything about the "dome", but in the 80s, when I was partisan, we shot down the shells from the Grad with 100mm and 57mm antiaircraft guns without any problems. There was an RPK8 (or 6) station on a hundred square meters, and the 57mm still had ancient towed DREAMS.
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 31 October 2013 16: 40 New
      +2
      Quote: makarov
      I can't say anything about the "dome", but in the 80s, when I was partisan, we shot down the shells from the Grad with 100mm and 57mm antiaircraft guns without any problems. There was an RPK8 (or 6) station on a hundred square meters, and the 57mm still had ancient towed DREAMS.

      The dome protects large areas.
  • makarov
    makarov 31 October 2013 17: 31 New
    +1
    Quote: Pimply
    The dome protects large areas.

    SW Eugene.
    I issued a comment in parallel about the cost of hitting a target with modern "dome" means and canned anti-aircraft artillery. And at the expense of the area, the 100-ka covers a pretty decent space. from memory at a height of 18 km., and horizontally 26 km. I don't remember about 57mm anymore.
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 31 October 2013 17: 42 New
      +1
      Quote: makarov
      I issued a comment in parallel about the cost of hitting a target with modern "dome" means and canned anti-aircraft artillery. And at the expense of the area, the 100-ka covers a pretty decent space. from memory at a height of 18 km., and horizontally 26 km. I don't remember about 57mm

      Israel tested automatic cannon fire systems. They showed their inefficiency in this case.
    2. Lopatov
      Lopatov 31 October 2013 21: 04 New
      +1
      If we talk about anti-aircraft artillery complexes, then the Germans are in the forefront. With their "praying mantises" they learned how to shoot down not only MLRS missiles, but also guided shells and even mortar mines. However, the range ... They plan to use them to protect important small targets: headquarters, communications center, base center in local wars. Expensive thing, $ 55 million per set. If put on a stream, the cost will decrease, but not by much.
    3. atalef
      atalef 31 October 2013 21: 09 New
      +2
      Quote: makarov
      SW Eugene.
      I issued a comment in parallel about the cost of hitting a target with modern "dome" means and canned anti-aircraft artillery. And at the expense of the area, the 100-ka covers a pretty decent space. from memory at a height of 18 km., and horizontally 26 km. I don't remember about 57mm anymore.

      Tested (before the development of the LCD) anti-aircraft machine guns (Beaufort) or something like that (Swedish) in my opinion. We decided that it does not fit.
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 31 October 2013 21: 15 New
        +1
        Most likely, we tested the American Phalanx CIWS
        1. atalef
          atalef 31 October 2013 21: 22 New
          +1
          Quote: Spade
          Most likely, we tested the American Phalanx CIWS

          No, it’s definitely of European production, I remember the target designation station and 3-4 automatic anti-aircraft guns. Wash all the same BOFORS
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 31 October 2013 21: 27 New
            +2
            So someone else has something. Because the Germans at that time were not yet ready. It is necessary to search for "Oerlikon", rather it is they. The Germans put their experimental laser on their carriage, which means that the guidance system made it possible to work on small targets.
            1. atalef
              atalef 31 October 2013 21: 34 New
              +1
              Quote: Spade
              It is necessary to search for "Oerlikon", rather they are

              (+) To you. it was still erlikons (everything in the language was spinning) I found a video, somewhere there are tests in Israel. This Oerlikon --- once again respect. hi
              EAC has high-voltage circuit breakers with Oerlikon 9 mechanics, I thought then, we had to get in here too) Although Oerlikon machine guns were still during WWII
          2. Lopatov
            Lopatov 31 October 2013 21: 31 New
            0
            Not Oerlikon Millennium?
          3. Pimply
            Pimply 31 October 2013 21: 39 New
            0
            Experienced both that and that. Not Bofors. Two systems were tested from cannon systems: Phalanx and Sky Shield (the latter was just jointly by the States-Switzerland).
        2. Pimply
          Pimply 31 October 2013 21: 35 New
          0
          Quote: Spade
          Most likely, we tested the American Phalanx CIWS


          And her also - by the way, she is joint with "Raphael". And besides, they tested the American-Swiss (not Swedish) Sky Shield.
          1. atalef
            atalef 31 October 2013 21: 38 New
            0
            Quote: Pimply
            And her also - by the way, she is joint with "Raphael". And besides, they tested the American-Swiss (not Swedish) Sky Shield.

            Not . I remember (now for sure) anti-aircraft machine guns were double-barreled.
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 31 October 2013 21: 53 New
              +1
              You do not quite remember correctly. There were three installations on that video that you saw, two single-barrel and one double-barreled.

              Here is the video: http://krasview.ru/video/255371-Skaiyshild_integrirovannaya_sistema_protivovozdu
              shnoiy_oborony_maloiy_dalnosti_ot_Oerlikon_Contraves_ (Shveiytsariya) _Skyshield_3
              5_Ahead_Anti_Aircraft_Artillery_System

              Though kill, I do not know what he is doing on that site.
              1. atalef
                atalef 31 October 2013 22: 10 New
                +1
                Quote: Spade
                You do not quite remember correctly. There were three installations on that video that you saw, two single-barrel and one double-barreled.

                Perhaps a long time ago it was
          2. Lopatov
            Lopatov 31 October 2013 21: 43 New
            0
            In short, they tried everything, but it turned out to be painfully expensive. We decided to limit ourselves to missile defense.
            1. Pimply
              Pimply 31 October 2013 21: 52 New
              0
              Not really. The problem was different.
              A) Protection area too small
              B) The system was supposed to protect residential neighborhoods, and given the amount of lead released by these guns, they could do more harm than good.
              C) Because of the same rocket, it was necessary to knock down at a higher altitude.
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 31 October 2013 21: 59 New
                +1
                Quote: Pimply
                Not really. The problem was different.
                A) Protection area too small

                Well .. Small area-> many complexes-> high costs Logical? You would not simply pull in each village for a complex of half a billion at the cost of placing
                1. Pimply
                  Pimply 31 October 2013 22: 17 New
                  0
                  Quote: Spade
                  Well .. Small area-> many complexes-> high costs Logical? You would not simply pull in each village for a complex of half a billion at the cost of placing

                  They are an average of 15 millions, as I recall. The dome is about 50.
                  1. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 31 October 2013 23: 27 New
                    0
                    The German complex costs 55 million
                    1. Pimply
                      Pimply 1 November 2013 00: 39 New
                      0
                      Quote: Spade
                      The German complex costs 55 million

                      And who are the Germans? Swiss American?
                      1. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 1 November 2013 00: 51 New
                        0
                        Rheinmetal "Praying Mantis". And it was developed by their Swiss branch called "former Oerlikon". Americans are out of business.


                        The MANTIS complex (Modular, Automatic and Network capable Targeting and Interception System) was developed by the Rheinmetall Defense division of Rheinmetall Defense (the former well-known Swiss company Oerlikon Contraves Defense, acquired by Rheinmetall in 2000) and is essentially a semi-stationary version of the Skyshield 35 ZAK AHEAD using Revolver Gun Mounts (RGM) fire modules with a single-barrel 35 mm Oerlikon KDG35 / 1000 revolving gun at a rate of 1000 rounds per minute. This system is also used in Skyranger ZSU (supplied by Saudi Arabia) and Millennium MDG-35 shipboard ZAK. The MANTIS complex, designated by the developer as MOOTW / C-RAM (Military Operations Other Than War / Counter-Rockets, Artillery and Mortar), was created by order of the German Ministry of Defense since 2007 as a main means of defense of stationary objects (military bases, etc.). e.) from rocket and mortar attacks (C-RAM, German designation NBS - Nächstbereichs-Schutzsystem). In 2009, Rheinmetall Defense received a German Ministry of Defense contract worth 110 million euros for the supply of two complexes MANTIS.


                        http://bmpd.livejournal.com/394642.html?thread=9368722
                      2. Pimply
                        Pimply 1 November 2013 00: 56 New
                        0
                        We shone infa about the fact that Lockheed Martin also took part in the development.
                      3. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 1 November 2013 01: 01 New
                        +1
                        They stick their sting everywhere. On the subject "where to steal an idea." The device is promising. The one that was offered to you could work on missiles. This one knocks down mortar mines. This means that it is able to work on high-precision shells.
  • Pimply
    Pimply 31 October 2013 21: 36 New
    0
    Quote: atalef
    Tested (before the development of the LCD) anti-aircraft machine guns (Beaufort) or something like that (Swedish) in my opinion. We decided that it does not fit.


    US-Swiss system.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 31 October 2013 21: 47 New
      0
      Well, this is the Erlikon apparatus. "Skyshield-ADATS"
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 31 October 2013 21: 53 New
        0
        Well, they tested it.
  • faraon
    faraon 31 October 2013 18: 25 New
    +3
    What exactly is the dispute about? The "iron dome" is a weapon of defense, not attack. Its task in the upcoming war is to protect strategically important objects in the first minutes of the beginning of the war, the entire air defense system, including aviation, will turn on in parallel with the dome, then artillery will go and tanks will end the operation of the infantry. This is a theory but approximate to praktik.Do you dear forum users think that Israel in the event of war will all sit in bomb shelters. Immediately there will be a retaliatory strike against a potential adversary. The army with all its military-technical might is capable of suppressing any enemy attack.
  • xomaNN
    xomaNN 31 October 2013 19: 10 New
    +1
    "Kupol" was conceived and implemented as protection of border towns from massive shelling of semi-handicraft missiles by Arab militants. And of course, Jews are Jews, they count money. But the life of the Israelis themselves value dearly. Otherwise, they would not be shot down with missiles, which are an order of magnitude more expensive than the primitive cheap Arab NURSs. And for a war with a real army, of course, air defense and missile defense are needed completely different.
    1. il grand casino
      il grand casino 31 October 2013 19: 22 New
      +1
      Well, so the "dome" is only part of the missile defense ... against which they have other means larger than that)))
      For example:
      http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_%28%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BA%D0%B5%D1%82%D0%B0%29
  • mr_Doom
    mr_Doom 1 November 2013 07: 40 New
    +1
    With whom they will fight for 20-30 days, they will quickly deal with Syria (Assad understands and is afraid of this, and the loss is now a 100% change of regime), Iran does not think that it will spit 30 days.
  • mvg
    mvg 13 November 2013 22: 38 New
    0
    Quote: Spade
    Not quite the case. The expert took as a postulate that Israel would go on the defensive without striking at the enemy’s attack facilities and infrastructure. But this is a fantastic scenario.

    yes, almost 100%, if Syria or Iran starts preparations, as the DPRK recently, a preventive strike will be inflicted. Israel does not stand on ceremony with this. Yes, and they have WMDs, and MUCH
  • Rav Seren
    Rav Seren 10 December 2013 11: 34 New
    +1
    Dr. Nathan Faber, a renowned specialist in missile defense systems (ABM) ..
    Well, this "doctor" is a lobbyist for the Lockheed systems - Israel rejected the laser destruction system for MS and small missiles in favor of the Steel Dome system. The effectiveness of the Dome was brilliantly proven during the second operation in Gaza, when with only a percent of the required batteries and raw software, the system nevertheless shot down 94 percent of all potentially dangerous missiles.