Military Review

The second General Staff of the country will not pull

58
The question whether the formation of a national center of defense of the state in the defense ministry of the Russian Federation is appropriate remains open.


Recently, there has been an active discussion on the topic of creating a new, so-called Head Office of the Ministry of Defense of Russia and the National Center for Defense Management of the State (NCUOG) within the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation. As you know, any control system consists of three main components: organs, points and controls. In this regard, the question arises: what will this NTSUOG be, in relation to the entire Russian military organization, for the construction of which large enough state resources are already being spent?

As for the name NTSUOG, it clearly traces the analogy with the National Center for Crisis Situations EMERCOM of Russia (NTSUKS), the National Anti-Terrorism Committee of the Federal Security Service of Russia (NAK), the National Anti-Drug Committee, the National Anti-Corruption Center and other national authorities and points actively being created now in various ministries and departments.

If we talk about the content of the NTUGS, that is, its organizational structure, composition, tasks and functions, this is the authority of the Supreme Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces on the issues of the country's defense. It will be located at one of the command and control centers set up in the Russian Defense Ministry with the so-called situational center specially equipped with modern technical means, which is, according to some bold statements, a real “electronic Security Council” of the Russian Federation.

The second General Staff of the country will not pull

It should be noted that directly in the Ministry of Defense a long time ago already exists and effectively in a regular mode the same national authority as the newly created National Center for Humanitarian Affairs, as a whole with the same tasks, functions and organizational structure, the state defense management body under the general supervision of the Supreme Commander of the Armed Forces.

This is the General Headquarters of the Armed Forces with the Central Command Center of the General Staff of the RF Armed Forces and the Situation Center of the Russian Defense Ministry, which already today is solving strategic tasks in the interests of the entire military organization of the state, related not only to the country's defense, but also to ensuring mainly military security, as well as partly public and even state security of the Russian Federation.

Therefore, many questions arise.

So what is this created NCUOG - is it a repetition of everything that already exists only at a new technological and hardware level? But then, how is it provided for and does it provide for the solution of one of the most difficult tasks associated with the implementation of sharply increasing demands on the sources of information that should be received by this innovative NCUOG?

Is the development of new functional software for automatic control of rocket-space defense and strategic nuclear forces in combat cycles and automated management (rather than simple supervision) of the military, special and supporting forces and general-purpose equipment of the entire military organization of the state, starting with the adoption of management decisions and ending with the control of their execution?

Is the depth and degree of technical development of this project sufficient according to the “cost-effectiveness” criterion in the designated so short timeframes for creating the NCUOG - 2014 year?

Is the operational-strategic and technical training of specialists for service and work in the newly established control body of the entire military organization of the state organized and how?

At the same time, no one doubts, or even officially enshrined in the National Security Strategy of the Russian Federation, that the military organization of the state today is undergoing significant qualitative changes and is developing towards the creation of the so-called triune system of ensuring the national (military, state and public) security of Russia and defense of the country under the general leadership and direct control of the President of the Russian Federation - the Supreme Commander-in-Chief of the military and special forces perazim (ie not only the armed forces, but also by other troops, military units, agencies, military and special forces of the state, intended for the Russian Federation and the country's defense of national security).

The main and primary task in the formation of this triune system is the creation of an appropriate national, supra-departmental, permanent staffing body, not to imitate the turbulent apparatus bureaucratic activity, endless conference calls showing on all TV channels (although this is sometimes necessary) and irresponsible curating, but personally responsible, professional, operational and administrative state management of all processes of creation, production, functioning Nia and operational and strategic use of all the components of a three-pronged system of ensuring the national security of the Russian Federation and the country's defense.

Considering the above, the center being created should be organizationally, technically and algorithmically (for individual types of weapons and equipment) linked into a single system with various staff and non-staff so-called national centers, committees, councils and working groups that are being created today in ministries and departments each of them has its own departmental task in the interests of the entire state.

To this end, it seems expedient to concentrate the relevant resources of the country and direct them today primarily to create in the presidential administration of the Russian Federation a permanently functioning Supreme High Command of the state’s military and special operations with its staff super-departmental management body, the Joint Headquarters or, in other words, the National Command Center activities of all components of the triune system of ensuring state, public, military security th Federation and the defense of the country under the overall supervision and direct control of the President of the Russian Federation - the Supreme Commander of the Armed Forces, other troops, military formations and bodies of state special services (see 1 and 2 schemes.).

1 schema


As an option, the territory and facilities of the Russian Ministry of Defense on the Frunzenskaya Embankment with relevant additions and changes to the Head Office of the Ministry of Defense of Russia and the next so-called National Center for Defense Management of the State today are actually used as one of the most suitable places and objects.

2 schema


This option will require the active participation of all ministries and departments involved in joint actions to protect the national interests of the Russian Federation from threats and challenges in the provision of state, public and military security of the state and national defense. It will be necessary to carry out additional design, refinement and interconnection of departmental control centers with the created management body of the Supreme Main Command (VGK) and with each other in order to form one of them in the full sense of a unified management system.

In this case, of course, it will also be necessary to change the very name of the main object being erected on the Frunze Embankment in order to bring this name in full compliance with the content. For example, for ease of use in the media, this object can be called briefly - the National Center of the Supreme Command for managing the triune system of ensuring the national security of the state and the country's defense. Naturally, the whole NTSUOG will be included in its composition as a separate component.

It is advisable to start forming such a National Center for Civil Aviation with the advancement of the construction of the facility itself already from the most trained, experienced managers serving in the highest echelons of state and military administration and well representing the entire system of state and military construction and ensuring national security. At the first stage, their main task should be to thoroughly study and issue a technical assignment for the development of this very complex, resource-intensive and responsible project, and then to organize the outline design and create both the center itself and the whole system of managing the state’s military organization. .

By the way, the training and advanced training of specialists for service in this command body of the Supreme Command and in other established supra-departmental state national bodies, centers and control points of the operational and strategic level of the triune system of ensuring the national security of the state and the country's defense can be already organized at the Military Academy of the General Staff Armed Forces (BA GSH), renaming it respectively the Military Academy of the Supreme High Command of the Armed Forces, other troops , Military formations and bodies of state special services (VA VGK).

There are two other names of this academy that have the same meaning, for example, the Military Academy of the Supreme Command of the military and special forces and state, public and military security agencies of the Russian Federation and the defense of the country, or briefly the Military Academy of the Supreme Command of military and special operations.

Such an approach to the creation of the National Center for the Supreme Command will, in general, allow for the construction of an effective unified management system for the entire military organization of the state, including not only power, but also research and production components, although it will increase the time it takes to be commissioned compared to the time limits set for NTUOG . However, taking into account the work already done on the creation of the NCUOG, this increase in time may be insignificant.

Thus, on the basis of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation with the share participation of all the power structures of the state and the defense industry complex of the country, it is possible in a relatively short time and with an insignificant expenditure of additional budget funds and state resources to create a full-fledged, permanent so in wartime, the Supreme High Command for the operational management of the Armed Forces, other troops, military formations and bodies, that is, the so-called forces of military and special operations, as well as all state scientific and production components of the triune system of ensuring state, public and military security of the Russian Federation and the country's defense (see the 1 scheme).
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  1. mak210
    mak210 30 October 2013 08: 41
    14
    Oops! Another bureaucratic structure, now for sure everything will go well. Strange logic. They are increasing the apparatus, the scoop is resting, but to no avail, things are getting worse, do they really not understand. Maybe it's time to change the strategy, and not engage in tactics?
    1. Tyumen
      Tyumen 30 October 2013 09: 54
      +8
      Yeah, to produce another Serdyukov and Vasiliev? There was only one General Staff in the Union, there was enough for the whole world,
      and the new feeder is useless.
      1. Asgard
        Asgard 30 October 2013 11: 11
        12
        Judging by the comments))))
        As soon as the "Sewing Shaman-Mason General" was appointed, the people disagreed with me with cons (but reacted quite violently))))

        Generalisimus, oh sorry, the Commander-in-Chief is also lousy for the Army and the Russian People .....

        The VV and the MVD with the FSO are developing more than the Combat Units and the Navy ...
        Russian officers imprisoned !!!! Kvachkov, Khabarov, Ulman, Budanov ???
        FZ-99 signed in 2007, the Law was adopted to send NATO troops against the Russian People and its Army and Navy.
        He relies on non-Russians-Jews and Asians with Caucasians)))
        canceled all social PROMISES declared by May Decrees
        and endless meetings, promises, to deepen, modernize and carry out "reforms" - which are KILLING us creeping ...
        with the help of such APPOINTERS ....
        CHANGE ALREADY PEOPLE WITH - (MINUSES)) ADD KNOWLEDGE TO YOURSELF (+))))))
        By the way you react, you can see how much we live in the swamp)))
        because we’ll die ......,
        Well, not We (strong men) but our mothers and elderly dads, children with the formation of DE-BILOIDS)), relatives sharing the grandmother’s only apartment, neighbors looking into a glass .....
        And without them we are Someone)))))
        1. military
          military 30 October 2013 12: 07
          +5
          Quote: Asgard
          Generalisimus, oh sorry, the Commander-in-Chief is also a lousy for the Russian Army and People ..... The BB and the Ministry of Internal Affairs with the FSO are developing more than the Combat Units and the Navy ...

          threatened by the Lord of the Sith ... wink
        2. Ptah
          Ptah 30 October 2013 15: 24
          +2
          Here is information for consideration-

          ttolk.ru/?p=3289

          True, 2.5 years have passed since the placement, but still ...
      2. Volkhov
        Volkhov 30 October 2013 12: 22
        -3
        The Union has always had 2 governments and 2 General Staffs - Soviet and Jewish, now just the second has received hypertrophied development.
        We need to look at the experience of the Germans - they had 3 governments - Hitler in Berlin, Jewish in Geneva and German in Breslau, this created the necessary balance and made 4 Reich a superpower.
        It is not necessary to call for the closure of the Masonic center of the Masons themselves, but to create a 3-Russian government with all structures and to balance the disturbed balance. It is enough to show the naval achievements of Masonic strategists and this idea will become popular.
        1. Starfish
          Starfish 30 October 2013 12: 53
          +1
          "The Union has always had 2 governments and 2 General Staffs - Soviet and Jewish, now just the second one has received hypertrophied development."

          what is it? where did these knowledge come from?
          it is of the purest water "fantastic conspiracy theories", because nothing is provable or verifiable. in contrast to "real conspiracy theories", when, at least by external features and by the principle of "cui prodest" (who benefits), one can define "players" who prefer to act in the shadows.
        2. atalef
          atalef 30 October 2013 14: 10
          -1
          The Union has always had 2 governments and 2 General Staffs - Soviet and Jewish, now just the second has received hypertrophied development.

          I hope you know the coordinates of the second one, discard them in PM, I will send my resume there, maybe some post will not be given dusty
          1. Volkhov
            Volkhov 30 October 2013 14: 20
            +1
            Quote: atalef
            know the coordinates

            In the same place where they give out a share for the sale of Russia ...
            1. atalef
              atalef 30 October 2013 14: 23
              -1
              Quote: Volkhov
              Quote: atalef
              know the coordinates

              In the same place where they give out a share for the sale of Russia ...

              At the General Staff or what?
              And you can share me, otherwise I sold the voucher (at 92 ohms, out of stupidity) I would like a piece back wassat
              1. Volkhov
                Volkhov 30 October 2013 14: 39
                +1
                There is only a sapper company - 40 Tajiks from Moscow construction sites, but nearby - dig tunnels in Syria ...
              2. bilgesez
                bilgesez 30 October 2013 17: 43
                +1
                And where Ben-Lazarus keeps his bid there and is the second.
      3. Walker1975
        Walker1975 30 October 2013 12: 54
        +2
        And imagine how many additional general positions? And each with a full soc. package.
        1. Salavatsky Ministry of Emergency Situations
          +3
          Quote: Walker1975
          And imagine how many additional general positions? And each with a full soc. package.

          Only in the NCUOG - no less than 15 (this is modestly), and in each TsUOG military district on 1.
          1. Walker1975
            Walker1975 30 October 2013 13: 58
            +3
            Moreover, each general should have at least 2 deputies. (This is already from Parkinson’s laws - not one bureaucrat does not start less than 2 deputies, because 1 can apply for his position, and two will fight among themselves for influence on the boss)
        2. Ptah
          Ptah 30 October 2013 15: 17
          +5
          Quote: Walker1975
          Can you imagine how much

          Not only presented \, but already counted and wept (of course with joy).
          An example from the Ministry of Emergencies.
          The President of the Russian Federation signed a decree establishing the number of military personnel of the civil defense forces from January 1, 2006 in the amount of 19,5 thousand people. By the same decree, the number of territorial bodies was determined at 26900 people.
          This decree affirms the unique, unprecedented in world practice ratio between generals and soldiers, when there are less than 160 military personnel per general. In the army, a company of 100 people is commanded by a captain. A battalion of 450 people is commanded by a lieutenant colonel, a brigade of 3800 people is commanded by a colonel. In the operational-tactical command 38 people are commanded by a major general.
          And in the Ministry of Emergencies, 19 soldiers are commanded by an army general and 500 generals with lower ranks. Since 120, there have been 1997 general posts in the ministry alone, with a total number of EMERCOM of about 122 people, and 300000 people in paramilitary civil defense units. Of these 19500: one is an army general, 122 colonel generals, 9 lieutenant generals, 33 major generals and 76 rear admirals.


          More information on http://voprosik.net/rezervnaya-armiya-dlya-perevorota/
          It makes you wonder if the one was put "on the voivodeship".
          1. matross
            matross 30 October 2013 16: 03
            +4
            Quote: Ptah
            and 4 Rear Admiral

            Mother ett them! And the admirals otkudova there ?! Naval rescue personnel, underwater firefighters ... Cosmoflot of the Dark Empire, bleat! wassat
            1. Ptah
              Ptah 30 October 2013 16: 54
              +3
              Quote: matRoss
              And the admirals otkudova there ?!

              The State Inspectorate for Small Vessels and the Emergency and Rescue Service for Special Underwater Operations must be led by rear admirals.
              Otherwise, a fucker will fail.

              If we compare this situation, for example, with the Russian army, then there are about 1 generals per 890 million military personnel.
              Compared to the American army, there are 1 generals per 371 million 879 thousand military personnel. That is, for one general of the Ministry of Emergency Situations there are 159 military personnel, for one general of the Russian army - 1100, for one general of the American army - 1204.
          2. military
            military 30 October 2013 16: 53
            +4
            Quote: Ptah
            It makes you wonder if the one was put "on the voivodeship".

            by the way ... but the idea that they put the wrong kingdom still does not arise? ... repeat
            1. Ptah
              Ptah 30 October 2013 17: 01
              +4
              Yes, this topic is full of edge. The people have no good government, and the rulers do not have a suitable people.
              And in general, everything is sick of it. angry
          3. Walker1975
            Walker1975 30 October 2013 18: 15
            +2
            To go nuts! You can put a company of generals
      4. knn54
        knn54 30 October 2013 14: 02
        +4
        Tyumen: aha, to produce the next Serdyukov and Vasiliev?
        The Russian Federation, and so on, takes first place in the number of generals per square kilometer of territory. There are more of them than in all of Europe: conductor generals, athletes generals, doctors generals, veterinarians, inspector generals, prosecutor generals / justice ... And now, the NTsUOG generals.
        1. military
          military 30 October 2013 16: 56
          +1
          Quote: knn54
          And now the generals of NTsUOG

          Paaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! laughing
    2. smel
      smel 30 October 2013 11: 18
      +7
      Quote: mak210
      . Maybe it's time to change the strategy, and not engage in tactics?

      No ... It's time to change strategists. Yes, and ask them in an adult way
      1. Starfish
        Starfish 30 October 2013 11: 32
        +8
        "No ... It's time to change strategists. Yes, and ask them in an adult way."

        yesterday it was time. NATO is getting closer, Wahhabis are already here ...
        and this is all a talking shop, and the creation of new "jobs" for their friends, relatives, friends, relatives, relatives of friends ...
        remember here "the tale of how one man fed two generals"
      2. military
        military 30 October 2013 12: 23
        +5
        Quote: smel
        Quote: mak210
        . Maybe it's time to change the strategy, and not engage in tactics?

        No ... It's time to change strategists. Yes, and ask them in an adult way

        there are no strategists at the top ... and there were ... some opportunists ... and they have one goal - to remain in power at all costs ...
  2. Baron Wrangell
    Baron Wrangell 30 October 2013 08: 44
    19
    Shoigu in his repertoire! selectors, video conferencing, meetings and sessions. Pshik in the eyes of the inhabitant!
    There is the General Staff, and that's enough! you can not invent a bicycle if it is already done.
    1. Fin
      Fin 30 October 2013 09: 48
      +7
      Quote: Baron Wrangel
      Shoigu in his repertoire! selectors, video conferencing, meetings and sessions. Pshik in the eyes of the inhabitant!

      And in Langley, only "for" is unanimous. Now they participate in everything only there is no voting right. His childhood was difficult, and now so many soldiers have been presented. He cannot understand in any way that everything was created long ago, only strengthen.
    2. Salavatsky Ministry of Emergency Situations
      16
      Quote: Baron Wrangell
      Shoigu in his repertoire! selectors, video conferencing, meetings and sessions. Pshik in the eyes of the inhabitant!
      There is the General Staff, and that's enough! you can not invent a bicycle if it is already done.


      So I thought! When only Shoigu became the Minister, we began to score at the Emergencies Ministry, when and how soon the Defense Ministry would create a sort of ZUKSA. And here it is! Everything, soon black days will come to MO.
      By analogy with the NCCS, the NCUOG will be, in the military districts - just the DUOC, in the regional military registration and enlistment offices - also in the Central Administrative District of Russia, only smaller than others, and in military units and military registration and enlistment offices of municipalities everywhere will be built situational rooms for selectors.
      And how many general positions, it's just a class! How many of them, not understanding anything in military affairs, generals now rush from the Ministry of Emergency Situations to the Ministry of Defense to a new feeding trough. After all, in NTSUKS the chief is a general, the senior operational duty officer of the shift (and the shift is 4 units) is the general, the senior assistant to the senior operational duty officer is also a general. This is, damn it, how many new idlers in MO will appear! I quietly flashlight.
      I understand, reading the comments that the selectors have already zadolbali? Nothing, it's just flowers, then there will be berries with a slide accompaniment.
      Everything, kaput defense management, is being replaced by window dressing. There will be operational attendants in green T-shirts with the inscription "ARMY of Russia" on their backs, yelling at the selector at the subordinates and imitate violent activity. We know, sir, we have already passed this in the Emergencies Ministry, now we are clearing it up.
      1. Doctor Evil
        Doctor Evil 30 October 2013 12: 30
        +6
        Salavat MES. Your comment, in my opinion, is closest to the truth. thank hi
        1. Salavatsky Ministry of Emergency Situations
          +5
          So I work in the Ministry of Emergency Situations, I observe everything daily. hi
          And all this unnecessary stuff started at Shoigu, it was his fixed idea.
          1. Walker1975
            Walker1975 30 October 2013 14: 01
            +7
            By the way, even when Shoigu was the Minister of Emergency Situations, many people threw him that such intense activity seemed to occur, the minister was traveling, scurrying about, deciding everything, looking beautiful in front of the camera, and again, the country was not ready like a fire.
            1. military
              military 30 October 2013 15: 49
              +2
              I do not remember who exactly told ... an earthquake in one of the towns (later - the status of a "dead city") ... the local Emergencies Ministry service is on its ears ... dismantling debris, extinguishing fires ... the Ministry of Emergency Situations board The minister and his retinue + two dozen different faces, such as special correspondents and cameramen ... are moving to the ruins ... the head of the local administration, dirty and sooty (the second day at the facility) arrives for the report ... the first questions ... "- Where toilet for the Minister? ... Not ready? ... So, what the *** did you all do here? "... request
    3. Walker1975
      Walker1975 30 October 2013 12: 55
      +3
      But the bike can be fitted with new handlebars, wheels on all sides ... of course, driving efficiency is reduced, but tuning
    4. military
      military 30 October 2013 14: 37
      +2
      Quote: Baron Wrangel
      There is the General Staff, and that's enough! you can not invent a bicycle if it is already done.

      you can ... if you have nothing else to do ... or if you have been inventing "bicycles" all your life ... wink
  3. Same lech
    Same lech 30 October 2013 08: 46
    +9
    Why do we need another superstructure - that those that exist do not cope with their work? Then it is necessary to raise the question of the professionalism of their leaders.
    1. Gennady1973
      Gennady1973 30 October 2013 10: 13
      +4
      The same LYEKHA. Everything is done so that in the event of a "mess" and failure, they could not find the extreme ...
  4. makarov
    makarov 30 October 2013 08: 51
    -2
    I think that Shoigu is not a fool, he knows what he is doing. But this is only my opinion, and no more.
    1. baltika-18
      baltika-18 30 October 2013 09: 06
      +8
      Quote: makarov
      I think that Shoigu is not a fool, he knows what he is doing.

      Certainly not a fool. The Maltese cross was not in vain received.
    2. Doctor Evil
      Doctor Evil 30 October 2013 12: 49
      +2
      Shoigu Nichrome does not actually understand military affairs. In particular, in the management structure of the Armed Forces. That drags behind itself such a familiar and native system of the Ministry of Emergencies. In her, he is like a fish in water. The General Staff is not needed, in NTsUOG now all the power. We will threaten the hotel with the Swede! Of course, he knows what he is doing ...
  5. Standard Oil
    Standard Oil 30 October 2013 09: 11
    +5
    "The bureaucracy is growing to meet the needs of the growing bureaucracy." But in general, out of the whole heap of rubbish called "Reforms" in modern Russia, there was at least something sensible? And it looks like we are creating "management", then "management of management management ", and then" the main directorate for the management of managing directorates. "We probably will soon have much more officials than in the USSR, despite the fact that the size of the territory has decreased, and the republics have become smaller, but as there was an army of officials, it remained.
  6. Stinger
    Stinger 30 October 2013 09: 26
    +8
    Was it not enough to destroy the naval command and control system by tearing command and control from points and controls?
  7. Yun Klob
    Yun Klob 30 October 2013 09: 32
    +1
    There cannot be two General Staffs. There is an impoverished strategic command in the eastern direction, what else is needed?
  8. Known who
    Known who 30 October 2013 09: 35
    -3
    In complex military equipment, there is the concept of duplication or the creation of a reserve in the design and manufacture of products so that the combat effectiveness of the entire complex does not suffer if damage is caused to individual components of weapons. It seems to me that the creation of such a complex as the creation of similar ones in the military districts (especially after Serdyukovshchina) will only benefit the defense capability. The thesis: "The more oak trees in the army, the more our defense is crashed" has long been outdated, it must be rephrased: "The more minds in the army, the stronger our defense." The army was reduced to such a state that there is no one to teach cadets and crickets in certain areas of new technology.
    1. Starfish
      Starfish 30 October 2013 11: 45
      +3
      "The army was reduced to such a state that there is no one to teach cadets and crickets in certain areas of new technology."


      and that the generals with the NTsUOG will do this?
      reduce the necessary and sensible. produce useless and clueless.
      this is the principle of our bureaucracy - now in the army
    2. Wal
      Wal 30 October 2013 14: 06
      +2
      The presence of 2 command centers will cause confusion in the management of troops. The existing command and control system in the troops already has duplication, even triple.
    3. Salavatsky Ministry of Emergency Situations
      +1
      Nothing, nothing, here will add enthome an element to the structure of the MoD, and the army will immediately grow to a thousand or other generals, so to speak, will grow in the minds ...
  9. Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 30 October 2013 09: 37
    -1
    A familiar technique. When the bureaucratic structure completely ceases to meet the needs of the state, the main problem with it is how to destroy it. Of course, in the minds of people who have never controlled anything, everything seems simple - issue a decree and that's it, go home! Alas ... the problems and consequences in this case will cause the state a hard to make, or maybe even irreparable damage. In general, without delving into the theory of control ...
    It is necessary to create a new, so far "clean" structure. Then gradually transfer to her the functions of the old one. The old structure, even understanding what is happening, willingly part with its responsibilities, this is how bureaucratic "evolution" is arranged - the old institution spends most of its energy on doing nothing but getting everything. All bureaucrats are doing exactly this - pushing work onto others, and leaving resources for themselves. When the "old man" has no real work left, you can gently disperse him - push out the nomenclature for an honorable retirement, send small brutes to the street under the knee, raise the salaries of the technicians ... Then the building can be used as you like ... or you can recruit the General Staff on a new, already from workers and not from snickering idlers-parasites.
    Something like this in general ...
    1. Tyumen
      Tyumen 30 October 2013 09: 59
      +3
      Somehow you utopian reason. A new structure with the transfer to it of the functions of the old,
      in my opinion, it will automatically turn into it.
    2. Drosselmeyer
      Drosselmeyer 30 October 2013 14: 46
      +1
      Ek, how easy it is for you. You can dial the General Staff in a new way ... directly, the staff on the beds in the greenhouse are ripening, only substitute the bast ...
    3. pr 627
      pr 627 30 October 2013 15: 59
      0
      Very tricky, for me it's easier to kick in the ass. Volya is needed, otherwise the "old people" will take a long time to collect money.
  10. Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 30 October 2013 09: 40
    +2
    It would be better to send money for the maintenance of soldiers and officers in the troops. They carry the main burden of ensuring the country's defense. And they live (North, Siberia, Far East) in very difficult conditions.
  11. Mikhail m
    Mikhail m 30 October 2013 09: 42
    +7
    Entrusted the jackets with the army to steer. Whatever the minister is reform. But no one thought of just letting the military calmly engage in combat training. And what should be led by specialists, not managers, also does not reach anyone. The new saw cuts the budget in a new way.
  12. IRBIS
    IRBIS 30 October 2013 09: 48
    +4
    Any "optimization" and "reform" in our country boils down to an increase in the number of officials, the creation of some new governing structures. And this is money, money, money again ... Do you need new general positions? For whom? And in general - one head is good, but two are already ugly.
  13. svp67
    svp67 30 October 2013 09: 55
    +2
    The second General Staff of the country will not pull

    The structure of command and control of the Armed Forces must be changed, or rather brought in line with the "spirit of the times", but this must be done VERY CAREFULLY. And in NO ONE way should the General Staff be excluded from this process. Maybe on its basis it is worth organizing a semblance of the "US" "Committee of Chiefs of Staff", gathering under its "wing" ALL the threads of management "of the Ministry of Defense, Air Force, PV, Ministry of Internal Affairs, Ministry of Emergency Situations, Railroad ..." and all other armed ministries with armed formations and members of the Armed Forces of Russia
    1. creak
      creak 30 October 2013 12: 59
      +4
      At all times, the General Staff also performed these functions - that’s why it was called the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the country, unlike the Ministry of Defense ... And now, instead, the Navy’s Commander-in-Chief drove to St. Petersburg and nobody could clearly substantiate this utter nonsense , all the objections of the professionals were simply dismissed ... There was a similar insanity with the transfer of army aviation from the Ground Forces to the Air Force ... The cake was beginning to stitch the boots, as grandfather Krylov was right ...
  14. AK-47
    AK-47 30 October 2013 10: 02
    +7
    Sailed.
    Caps. shortcuts were only flowers.
  15. Doctor Evil
    Doctor Evil 30 October 2013 10: 24
    +1
    There is an article about that in Izvestia. Here is the link: http://izvestia.ru/news/551033
  16. Russ69
    Russ69 30 October 2013 10: 33
    0
    An article from the series "I Hear a Ringing, I Don't Know Where It Is".
    Enough, any journalistic talk, to take for a fait accompli.
  17. antiaircrafter
    antiaircrafter 30 October 2013 10: 42
    -4
    can and prv \ avilny decision.
    Recruit the best of the best to the new office, then all the redundant ones cut the fuck!
    1. Salavatsky Ministry of Emergency Situations
      +8
      Quote: antiaircrafter
      can and prv \ avilny decision.
      Recruit the best of the best to the new office, then all the redundant ones cut the fuck!

      There will be "the best of the best", you will see, from the Ministry of Emergencies will come.
  18. gorozhanin
    gorozhanin 30 October 2013 11: 40
    +2
    NTSUKS or, conditionally, the Main situational center, should be separated from the army and navy and subordinate to the Crisis (infrastructure) deputy prime minister. Under his management, d. not only the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the Ministry of Emergencies, and the Center for Disaster Medicine (and my opinion is the same with the entire Ministry of Health), but also the Ministry of Energy, the Ministry of Transport and the Ministry of Communications (preferably the Communications Agency).
    Then that makes sense. During the Second World War, Beria was about such a crisis prime minister. Thanks to him, the great Project, beyond mysticism, on the relocation of industrial enterprises of the USSR to the Urals, was completed.

    The aviation and navy have their own tasks. They are foreign policy. The army, of course, should be separated from the anti-crisis command and report directly to the Commander-in-Chief. And all the necessary components of army control have long been created. (Well, of course, no one canceled the modernization)
    1. Wal
      Wal 30 October 2013 14: 14
      0
      In this case, it (NTSUKS) should be created not by the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, but by another structure, for example, the FSO.
  19. gorozhanin
    gorozhanin 30 October 2013 11: 55
    +1
    As for Shoigu personally, I still hope that the Minister of Defense is temporary.
    Against the general amateurish background of DAM Government officials, he looks almost like an eagle.
    This is so, "patching holes".
    But if the government of professionals and patriots comes to replace the current one, which expresses the interests of comprador oligarchs, then, probably, Shoigu is rotated.

    Will he pull the post of crisis deputy prime minister? ... perhaps.
  20. freedom2013
    freedom2013 30 October 2013 11: 59
    +6
    In my opinion, this is complete nonsense. I treat pndndos accordingly, but I must admit that their army control system is more optimal than ours. What do I mean: 1 there are no duplicate departments - organizational-mobilization, weapons, personnel, etc. 2. In the Pentagon building, everyone is sitting - the SV, Air Force, Navy (we have the SV in Moscow, the Air Force in the Moscow Region, and the Navy in St. Petersburg). All this increases the efficiency of making any decisions at times. Yes, and their analogue of our CCP is located in the same place, in our country each type and genus of aircraft has its own CCP or CP. The main type of (documentary) communication is email, we have telegraph and FPS. And there are enough such minuses, I’m sure to turn the minuses into pluses and the efficiency of management will increase significantly, and the staff will decrease significantly. And the most important thing is not to take thieves into the governing bodies, but to take experienced and trained officers.
    And at the expense of Shoigu. Has he entered an office uniform, comfortable? Yes, no doubt. But when senior officers arrive at the Higher School of Education on September 1, and officers and cadets are standing in front of them in full parade, this is a spit to them. They called it office, here in the office and sit in it.
    My son graduated from the Ministry of Emergency Situations Academy, at his graduation he saw this picture (the whole shobla headed by Shoigu in an office uniform), it was disgusting. When I graduated from the Academy, the Commander-in-Chief came to us with a full iconostasis.
    1. Salavatsky Ministry of Emergency Situations
      +6
      Quote: Freedom2013
      all shobla ... in office form

      I see this shoblu every morning on the selector
      1. IRBIS
        IRBIS 30 October 2013 17: 42
        +1
        Quote: Salavat EMERCOM
        I see this shoblu every morning on the selector

        My personal condolences ... In the morning and so on ... And every day ...
  21. okroshka79
    okroshka79 30 October 2013 14: 07
    +5
    Well, as they say, they sailed ... SHSK turned out to be true to itself here. As NTSUKS, except for the plundered budget money during the construction of a gigantic building for it, with the darkness of generals and colonels with their empty conference calls (I myself had to attend them), the benefits for "prevention, rescue, assistance" (the slogan of the Ministry of Emergencies) nothing useful for ordinary citizens It didn’t bring it to Russia, and the newly created badly pronounced bureaucratic new formation, which, without going to the grandmother, will be trampled by "major specialists in the military development of the state from the Ministry of Emergency Situations" behind the general's shoulder straps, will not bring anything useful either. Another cut of taxpayers' money and only a weakening of management in ensuring the security (external and internal) of our long-suffering Russia. All this is perceived with great concern in terms of the safety of the life of our youth and the existence of our state itself, because the world smells of a terrible war more and more. Only now will the future Zhukovs, Rokossovskys, Konevs and Kuznetsovs succeed in commanding the troops instead of the Voroshilovs and Timoshenoks, and the Budennovs in a future war? Bo-oh-oh-big question. So far, "mediocre hour" is in the yard ...
    1. Metlik
      Metlik 30 October 2013 17: 25
      +1
      The main task is to create an appropriate permanent staffing body to simulate the turbulent apparatus of bureaucratic activity, endless conference calls with showing on all TV channels and irresponsible supervision
      We all know that Putin and Medvedev can do just that.
  22. Gronsky
    Gronsky 30 October 2013 14: 15
    +3
    Heh .... of course they are engaged in it. These convulsive throwings in all directions at once indicate a complete lack of understanding of where to move and what needs to be done. And all from the lack of bison professionals in the army. Yes, they would connect at least the elderly, those that remained before it was too late.
    And what kind of name is this - the main OFFICE of the Ministry of Defense. belay negative
    The general office would have been called and the ranks were introduced by the referent general, admiral for brokerage services, ensign-merchandiser. Ugh, God forgive me.
    1. Doctor Evil
      Doctor Evil 30 October 2013 15: 31
      0
      So full of referents with white stars and white piping on the shoulder straps. Look at any photo like "Shoigu at the Exhibition". They are everywhere.
  23. okroshka79
    okroshka79 30 October 2013 15: 08
    +1
    No, dear Gronsky, ShSK is engaged in her (heh .. her) only in our understanding. And in it - this is the strengthening of sole power, control over budget flows, the creation of an aura around itself of the largest military strategist, etc. etc. And he is simply not able to engage in a real Armed Forces, military education, and the practice of command and control of troops (more precisely, their absence) does not allow. And he was appointed, as it seems, to this post because of personal loyalty to the president, and maybe (which is also quite probable) to cover for the future, he will suddenly become a successor, which is now being talked about more and more often. By the way, we, ordinary inhabitants, do not really know, does he have a military rank, or a special (internal service), maybe someone will enlighten?
    1. pr 627
      pr 627 30 October 2013 16: 03
      0
      Who would doubt that the ministerial post is not political.
    2. Gronsky
      Gronsky 31 October 2013 01: 09
      0
      I’m not trying to be the ultimate truth, but I’ll say what I think.
      The fact that Shoigu is appointed on the principle of personal devotion is clear as day. But on the other hand, agree that this is not the worst option. Just because the president has no one to choose from. Around either corrupt scum, or complete degenerates. So of all the possible evils, one has to choose the least harmful. Personnel policy, like diplomacy, is the art of the possible, and there are not many possible left. Although Kozhugetovich personally impressed me and it was not his fault that he did not have enough fundamental military knowledge, this is his misfortune. And in a place with him is ours. On the other hand, it’s better not to have too much experience of your own than a mishandled Cossack, aimed at the early collapse of the state and army. In general, the situation is stalemate, but it is necessary to get out of it somehow.
  24. waisson
    waisson 30 October 2013 15: 25
    +2
    I'm afraid we don't have enough soldiers for generals I remember the cartoon "how a man fed two generals"
    1. Walker1975
      Walker1975 30 October 2013 18: 21
      +1
      And what is the little things. Remove extra titles. To do this: Private, Corporal, Sergeants, and then the platoon comm - lieutenant (for graduates of military universities), and from the company - the general.

      The enemy, as he learns the number of generals, will figure out what kind of army the army should be with so many and will run away with a fright. :)
  25. SPACE
    SPACE 30 October 2013 21: 05
    -1
    Quote: Asgard
    Judging by the comments))))

    I am afraid that this is most likely a mass-mental eclipse.
    Here are enough to watch YouTube TVs, garbage read in the internet, they come up with nonsense and they themselves will believe in it. Mental brain surges are becoming less common, but triggering of reflexes is increasingly laughing Media weapons radiate at full power, continuing the intensive enrichment of the brain substance to the desired critical mass. Calls for revolution are increasingly heard, in general, some are waiting for someone in a hot spring laughing
    Judging by the comments, it’s clear why there are only fools in the government, because potential omniscient correct presidents and ministers are sitting on this site laughing
    21 century in the yard, and it seems that many are stuck in the past, the realities have changed, strain the gyrus, if they still remain, take a closer look at the proposed structure, remember that the elections are on the nose, and the internal situation is akin to the pre-storm Emergency ... turn the pedals on they themselves and no one will “explain” to you “at the top”, because the truth may be that some of the “friends” of the state may not like you very much, and you’re all corruption laughing
    Everything is done correctly in full accordance with the PP! Well, hedgehogs will not reach, then then catch up ...
  26. Mikhail m
    Mikhail m 30 October 2013 22: 27
    0
    Quote: Freedom2013
    And at the expense of Shoigu. Has he entered an office uniform, comfortable? Yes, no doubt. But when senior officers arrive at the Higher School of Education on September 1, and officers and cadets are standing in front of them in full parade, this is a spit to them. They called it office, here in the office and sit in it.

    And the president with the prime minister, taking the Victory Day parade sitting in an armchair, what then? Feces release?