Military Review

Golan Heights on fire

114
Golan Heights on fire

Forty years ago, the bloodiest confrontation occurred stories Arab-Israeli Relations - Doomsday War. The Egyptian and Syrian armies began attacking the positions of the IDF (Israel Defense Forces) on the day that fell on Yom Kippur in the Jewish calendar that day (in Hebrew, the Day of Atonement). In Arabic literature, there are other names of this confrontation - from neutral “October war” and “War of the Tenth day of Ramadan”, to the shocking - “October victory”, “Great war”.


During this war, Israel suffered the greatest casualties in its history - 2656 soldiers were killed and 11 630 received injuries of varying severity. About 500 Israelis were taken prisoner. The losses of the Egyptians and Syrians are estimated only roughly. They are about 9000 killed and roughly 18 000 wounded. The Israeli captive turned 9370 Egyptian and Syrian soldiers and officers.

MOLDOU MEIR COULD SECURE ONE ANGEL ONLY

In Jerusalem, they were well aware that after the IDF defeated the armies of Egypt, Syria and Jordan during the Six Day War in June 1967, the Arab world would not accept defeat and sooner or later re-enter the battle with the Jews. However, Israel’s military and political elite were still impressed by the past crushing victories of the IDF.

On the eve of the Judgment Day 1973, the top leadership of the Jewish state decided not to break away from the people and took a short vacation in order to be on the most important Jewish holiday with their family and closest relatives. Yehuda Avner, who served as assistant to the five heads of government of Israel, author of the acclaimed book “Prime Ministers”, writes in an article entitled “Days of Wrath and Great Victims” published in The Jerusalem Post, an English-language Israeli newspaper, dedicated to the 40 anniversary of the War Doomsday: “The very idea of ​​an Arab attack would be an insult to the divine vision of the military doctrine adopted in Jerusalem that day. It was based on the fact that neither Egypt nor Syria was able to wage an all-out war. ”

The hero of the Six-Day War, Minister of Defense General Moshe Dayan, managed to convince the then Prime Minister of the country Golda Meir that in Cairo and Damascus they do not even think about a new battle with the Israeli army. According to Dayan, the leaders of the neighboring Arab states are aware that it will take them at least ten years to recover from the 1967 defeat of the year and achieve combat capability that can give hope of victory over the Israelis. Moreover, according to recently declassified data, the agents of AMAN (Israeli Military Intelligence Service) and Mossad (Israeli Foreign Intelligence) warned their immediate superiors that Egypt and Syria would start a war with Israel on the Day of Judgment. However, the director of AMAN, General Eli Zeira, supporting the point of view of Dayan, did not pay attention to the warnings of his agents. And this is despite the fact that the director of the MOSSAD, Zvi Zamir, did not doubt that Egypt and Damascus were preparing an attack on Israel precisely on the Day of Judgment.

It must be said that an Angel agent worked at Mossad. This pseudonym hid none other than Asraf Marouane, the son-in-law of former President Nasser, who after the death of his father-in-law received a position in the office of the new president, Anwar Sadat. It was the “Angel” who transmitted information about the breakthrough to the Sinai being prepared by the Egyptians. However, the Israeli leader demanded evidence from Zamir from other agents. Then the director of Mossad personally went to Europe to check information about the war being prepared by the Arabs. Early in the morning of October 6, he gave an urgent crypto telegram to Jerusalem, in which there were only three words: “Today the war will begin!”

Only after this, in fact, the cry of despair, Golda Meir gave the order to mobilize reservists. Moreover, according to Israeli intelligence, the Egyptian breakthrough was supposed to begin at six in the evening, but Sadat moved him to two in the afternoon.

In Israel in the evening, on the eve of the Day of Judgment, and the next light day, ordinary life is suspended. Local television and radio does not work, newspapers do not go out, public and private transport runs only in Arab neighborhoods. All institutions, educational institutions, shops, restaurants, cafes are closed. It is clear that this day, the only one of the year, seemed to the strategists who planned the attack on the Jewish state to be very attractive.

In Cairo and Damask, they didn’t learn much
According to biblical laws, human life is the most precious thing, and in the name of its preservation, it is permissible to violate all religious precepts. Moreover, they are simply canceled. Therefore, even on Judgment Day, hospitals, police stations, fire stations and all public utilities continue to operate in Israel. However, only in standby mode, with a minimum number of employees. On the Day of Judgment, the majority of soldiers receive layoffs and only duty teams remain at military bases. They took the first blow of the Egyptians in the south and the Syrians in the north.

Egyptian and Syrian strategists did not take into account one important factor. According to the Israeli military concept, the first strike of the enemy takes on tsava sadir (personnel army). And at the same time during the 48 hours miluimniki (reservists) are mobilized, who, joining the personnel units, constitute the power of the IDF. So, given the Doomsday, all highways in Israel were free and full mobilization was carried out in less than 15 hours.

In his memoirs, entitled “My Life,” then-Prime Minister Golda Meir recalls the last day before the war: “On Friday, October 5, we received a message that worried me. The families of Russian advisers in Syria hastily packed and left the country. It reminded me of what happened before the Six Day War, and didn’t like it very much. What kind of rush? What do these Russian families know, what do we not know? .. From the whole flow of information that reached my office, it was this little message that put a root in my mind. But since no one around was worried about this, I also tried not to succumb to obsession ...

I asked the Minister of Defense, the chief of staff, the chief of intelligence: do not they think this message is very important? No, it did not change their assessment of the situation at all. I was assured that in the event of an alarm, we would be warned in time, and, in addition, sufficient reinforcements were sent to the fronts to keep the ceasefire line, if necessary. Everything necessary has been done, the army, especially aviation и tank units are in readiness number one. "

In fact, there was no deception at all. There was the lack of professionalism of Golda Meir as an analyst and ordinary human carelessness, deadly for statesmen. Yakov Kedmi (Kazakov), a native of Moscow, who in 1992 – 1999 led Natyv (Lishkat Ha-Nesher - Bureau of Liaison with Russia and Eastern Europe) during the Yom Kippur War served as a tanker officer. In her recent book of memoirs, Hopeless Wars, Kedmi writes: “Golda Meir relied on assurances and promises from the army, and the army did not live up to expectations. Neither the Air Force, nor the Ground Forces, nor the Northern or the Southern Fronts fulfilled their obligations. Accused of all intelligence. Well, what if intelligence warned that the war would start on October 6? Would we be able to prevent the Egyptian army from forcing the canal? Or would additional forces be transferred to the Golan Heights? After all, the General Staff was convinced that with the balance of power, which he himself determined, regular units of the Israeli army would be able to keep both the Egyptian and Syrian armies on the 1967 borders of the year for at least 48 hours. ”


Egyptians successfully destroyed Israeli armored vehicles weaponsshipped from the USA and the USSR. Photo from the book Gammala Hammad "Military clashes on the Egyptian front."
Publishing House Dar al-Shuruq, Egypt


AND OUR AND YOUR

This is how the United States behaved during the Doomsday War. In English, this phrase sounds even more unattractive: To run with the hare and hurt with hounds, which in an accurate translation means "Run with the hare and hunt with the dogs."

A prominent Israeli publicist, Dov Kontorer, in a note entitled “Part of the free world” published in the Vesti-2 newspaper, supplemented to the Russian-language Israeli newspaper Vesti, states that the then United States Secretary of State Henry Kissinger was not very sympathetic to Israel (despite its Jewish origin), made many gestures towards President Sadat in an attempt to incline him to the American side. And these attempts, in the end, were crowned with success, despite the enormous free economic and especially military assistance that the Soviet Union had provided to Egypt for decades. For example, Counteror writes: “In July, 1972, Egypt declared its desire to become part of the free world, expelling the main body of Soviet military personnel from its territory. This gesture was appreciated by the United States, which entered into a trusting dialogue with the Egyptian leadership. Already in May, 1973, the result of this process was the absolute US veto on any version of the Israeli preventive attack. The leaders of the Jewish state stated in the most categorical terms that the new war in the Middle East should under no circumstances start the first Israeli shot. But Israel, which has no strategic depth, in the event of a sudden attack by the enemy armies of the states surrounding it, risks losing the opportunity for any tactical maneuver.

In 1981, the Israeli historian Mordechai Sacker in the book “Soften Folder” reported that Kissinger convinced Golda Meir and Moshe Dayan not to pay attention to the intelligence reports. When Egypt and Syria attacked Israel, Kissinger at first cut off the supply of arms and ammunition to the Jewish state. It is this that Sacker explains the information that is not confirmed by any documents or witness testimony that Moshe Dayan and Golda Meir, in case of an Egyptian and Syrian breakthrough to the center of the country, were ready to use atomic weapons against them, and then commit suicide.

The Syrians unexpectedly attacked the Israelis in the Golan Heights with three motorized and two armored divisions numbering at least 1200 tanks and about 45 thousand soldiers and officers. Israeli positions were held by all 180 tanks and 4500 military personnel. The tenfold superiority of the Syrians and the effect of surprise played a part. In the early hours of the war, Syrian paratroopers, having landed by helicopter, captured fortifications on Mount Hermon, known as the "eyes of Israel." Syrian MiGs bombed Jewish settlements in the north of the country. The breakthrough plan of the so-called “Purple Line” - the border fixed by the truce between the Jewish state and Syria established after the Six Day War was prepared with the active participation of the Syrian Defense Minister, then 41-year-old Mustafa Tlas, who had carefully studied the work of Marshal Georgy Zhukov. Much later, in 1986, in Paris, at Sorbonne University, Tlas defended his doctoral thesis on the strategic talent of Georgy Zhukov.

October 8 for Syrian tanks to Haifa, the northern capital of Israel, was only a few hours to go. Israeli air raids were broken on five belts of missile defense, created on the approaches to Damascus. It was then that the world's media first showed captured Israelis. Eyewitnesses of the battles of that October day in the Golan testify: the first three days the Syrians attacked without interruption, wave after wave, passing through minefields and using special bridges overcoming anti-tank ditches. "Katyusha" conducted a powerful shelling of Israeli positions. However, the IDF grouping in the Golan continued fierce resistance.

Syrian aviation had Soviet-made 300 aircraft. In the first three days there could be no complaints about the Syrian air defense. With its 20 military bases, the IDF fired 120 rocket launchers. Thus, Syria’s missile defense system covered its attacking divisions. It is wrong to believe that the Syrians were armed only with Soviet-made weapons. The Americans delivered SAM rockets to Damascus (the first letter S comes from the English word Surface, translated from Russian as “surface”; the letter A from English Air means “air”; M from Missle means “target”). It was these missiles that made up the power of the Syrian air defenses during the Doomsday War, which caused significant damage to Israeli aviation.

TANKS, AND NOT ONLY

On the southern front, the situation at first developed for Jerusalem almost tragically. On the eve of the Day of Judgment, 10 – 15% of the servicemen stipulated by the criteria remained on the “LB”. In addition, the confusion that arose during an unexpected blow, mixed all the plans. Thus, according to a number of data that became known after the Doomsday War, a defensive anti-tank ditch built by the IDF parallel to the Suez Canal, in the very first minutes of an enemy attack, was to be filled with gasoline and immediately set on fire. It was assumed that the resulting wall of fire will be another obstacle to the advancement of the Egyptians. But there was no gasoline in the ditch, there was nothing to set fire to, and for the Egyptians the Suez Canal was not a serious obstacle.

To break through the “LB”, the Egyptians used 160 water cannons, essentially water cannons, purchased in England and Germany. These guns blurred the passages in the multimeter sand mound, which was a barrier to infantry, and especially tanks. Egyptian infantry began to consolidate on the Asian coast of the canal within 30 minutes after the start of hostilities. However, heavy fire from Israeli bunkers deprived the Egyptians of any maneuver. To reinforce their infantry, Egypt threw tanks that passed along the pontoon bridge across the canal and along the 70 made into the embankments of the aisles.

Towards the Egyptians, the IDF commanders threw their few tank reserves. But Israeli armored vehicles - again, due to the surprise of the strike - were advancing without prior reconnaissance and without the support of infantry. Therefore, their counterstrike failed. After all, the Egyptian assault groups for every three or four soldiers had an RPG-7 anti-tank grenade launcher.

But Israeli tanks were burning not only from Soviet grenade launchers. In the early days of the war, Soviet anti-tank guided missiles (ATGMs) of the “Baby” type delivered to the Egyptians perfectly proved themselves. It was the Egyptian ATGM operators that became the first Arab heroes of that war. Mohammed Ibrahim Abd el Moneim al-Musri, who was 1973 years old in 25, burned Israeli tanks with his “Little” 27. He was awarded the 2 degree Order of the Star of Sinai. Sergeant Abdel Ati Sharaf destroyed 23 enemy tank in front of his commanders and officers of the Libyan army. The Egyptians awarded Sharaf, as well as al-Musri, the Order of the Star of Sinai of the 2 degree, and the Libyans received their Order of Honor.

Here I will note that the Libyan Jamahiriya supplied the Mirage fighters of French manufacture to the Egyptians and provided financial assistance in the amount of one billion dollars. Iraq sent to the aid of the Syrians expeditionary corps as part of 30 thousand troops, 500 tanks and 700 armored personnel carriers. Algeria provided three fighter and bomber squadrons, a brigade of soldiers and tanks. Sudan sent 3,5 thousand soldiers to the aid of the Egyptians, and Tunisia sent about a thousand. Morocco sent three brigades to help the Arab brothers, and Pakistan sent 16 pilots. Saudi Arabia and Kuwait provided enormous financial assistance (so far, its monetary value is unknown) and several army battalions. Arab states demanded that the Jordanian King Hussein enter the fighting, but he, not believing in victory, declined to participate in the Doomsday War. Only in the last hours of the war did Jordanian legionnaires come to the aid of the Syrians. But this help did not solve anything.

One of the tanks destroyed by al-Musri was commanded by Lt. Col. Asaf Yaguri, who was captured. Together with him, the Egyptians captured two more officers and three soldiers. The officers were left alive, and the soldiers were shot. Yaguri was the highest-ranking Israeli officer captured by Arabs during the Doomsday War. After 46 days, this officer and all 300 Israeli soldiers captured in Egyptian and Syrian captivity were exchanged for almost 9 thousand Egyptian and Syrian prisoners.

After the success of the first days of the war, the Egyptians began to run out of steam. There was a temporary lull. After the reserves approach, Cairo resumed the October 14 attack in 6.30 in the morning by two tank and four infantry divisions. Using a huge margin in the number of tanks and military personnel, the Egyptians advanced 6 – 10 kilometers, but they could not overcome the stubborn resistance of the Jews. Egyptian troops were stopped by Israeli tanks 200, dug into the ground, as well as by helicopters armed with American ATGMs like TOW (from the English abbreviation Tube-launched optically-tracked wire guided - “electronic launching optical missile system on a track”). Interestingly, the same anti-tank missiles Americans put to the Egyptians, the Saudis and armies of other Muslim countries, but they were not fully used in the battles against the IDF. In these battles, the commander of the Israeli armored units in Sinai, General Abraham (Albert) Mendler, was killed - the very “Baby” hit his staff APC. But the death of a senior Israeli military leader did not save the Egyptians from defeat.

Ariel Sharon, the future prime minister of Israel, called in the IDF on the very first day of this war the turn of the war. On the night of October 16, a small detachment of seven Soviet amphibious tanks PT-76 captured by Israel as trophies in the Six-Day War and eight again captured Soviet BTR-50P crossed the Bitter Lake at the junction of the 2 and 3 of the Egyptian armies. The Arabs did not allow even the idea of ​​landing in their rear Israeli tanks. Therefore, they initially did not attach importance to this enemy beachhead. And expensive for such inattention paid.

BATTLE ON "CHINESE FARM"

Israeli historians believe that the victory of the IDF in this battle, which lasted four days, from 15 to 18 of October, decided the outcome of the Doomsday War in favor of the Jewish state. Often, the battle there is called the "Middle East Stalingrad." The “Chinese farm”, located at the northern tip of the Big Gorky Lake, had nothing to do with China. In the northwestern part of this region, before the Six-Day War, an experimental farm of Japanese agriculture was located. The Israeli soldiers who captured this place, who did not understand the differences between Chinese and Japanese characters, gave it the name "Chinese Farm" ("KF"). The Israeli command believed that control over the KF was vital for the implementation of the Fearless plan to force the Suez Canal. This plan was intended to turn the tide of the war in favor of the Jewish state. The fact is that KF covered from the east the place where Ariel Sharon’s 143 Division was to capture the bridgehead and begin building a pontoon bridge and forcing the canal.

On the night of 15 on 16 of October, the division commander, General Sharon, personally supervised the creation of a beachhead on the beach and the delivery of a brigade of paratroopers Colonel Dani Mata and an armored brigade of Colonel Haim Erez to the port. In this case, the paratroopers who received the order to gain a foothold in the KF, were completely cut off from the main forces. In fact, they fought alone. Later, the commander of the troop platoon Hezy Dahbash said: “We then received the task to destroy individual Egyptian groups armed with anti-tank missiles ... For the paratroopers, the task is simple and familiar. But we were completely unprepared that a whole army would stand against us! In the first minute there was a feeling that hell had opened. ”

And in fact, 300 thousand Egyptian soldiers fought against 10 Israeli paratroopers, 2 thousand tanks fought against them. In fact, the Dahbash group, which diverted the main forces of the enemy, was obviously doomed to death. Apparently, the Egyptians did not realize that they were opposed only by a handful of Jews, and they hesitated with the final blow. The battle lasted two days. Of the Israeli paratroopers 300 killed 128, and 62 were injured. However, Sharon's division won the time, and with the support of aviation, his tanks, having crossed over to the African coast, rushed to Cairo, destroying everything in their path. But neither Washington nor Moscow could allow the fall of the Egyptian capital. Yes, and in Jerusalem they understood that another complete war could immediately follow the full capitulation of Egypt, in which unexpected players could take part. Therefore, Jerusalem concluded a truce with Cairo with the assistance of the United States and the Soviet Union.

Damask rescued iraqis

On the northern front, the situation is similar. The Syrian attack soon choked. The Israeli forces, having received reinforcements, launched a counter-offensive on October 8 and 9. By the evening of October 10, the IDF had pushed the Syrian army back over the 1967 ceasefire line of the year, and on October 11, the Israelis had already fought with the Syrians and two Iraqi divisions in Syria.

Defense Minister Moshe Dayan strongly objected to further progress on the territory of Syria. He did not rule out direct military intervention by the Soviet Union. He objected to the head of the IDF's General Staff, Lieutenant-General David Elazar. He believed that it was necessary to advance to a depth of about 22 kilometers and defeat the Syrian group, which can counterattack. Golda Meir took Elazar's side. The Israelis assembled all the surviving tanks into the 7 Brigade and attacked the Syrians under the cover of aviation and artillery.

Syrian troops retreated. The road to Damascus was open. In Jerusalem, they did not even think of taking Damascus for the same reasons as Cairo. Syrian troops feared falling into the "pot". They were saved by the Iraqi expeditionary force. At the end of the day on October 12, the Iraqi tank division attacked two Israeli tank brigades from the march. It was the first battle of the Iraqi tankers in the history of the armed forces of this country. Having no experience, the Iraqi crews came under targeted fire from Israeli tanks. In addition, the Iraqis are very tired, they did not have enough fuel and ammunition. In this battle, the Israelis shot down, according to some data, 80, according to others - 100 of Iraqi tanks. Thus, the Iraqi division was able to knock down the attacking impulse of the IDF for a very short time, but could no longer restrain the Jews.

On the morning of October 16, a Jordanian tank brigade, supported by the Syrian Infantry Division, came to the aid of the Iraqis. The Jordanian and Syrian soldiers in this battle fought bravely, but lost to the Jews from time to time melee fights. In addition, coordination between the Iraqi and Jordanian military was disrupted.

Soon, the IDF broke through the Syrian fortifications and saddled the highway leading to Damascus. For reasons of international concern, the Israelis did not develop the offensive and October 17 stopped 40 kilometers from the Syrian capital. From the last forces, the Syrian army attempted to win back the strategically important peak Hermon on the Golan Heights, but on October 22 the IDF hoisted the Israeli flag there.

GENERAL POWER DOWN

One of the most important consequences of the Doomsday War is to include a review of the attitude of Israeli society to its generals. After all, for many years they looked at the IDF as a sacred cow. For immigrants from the army, especially in high ranks, the doors to politics and big business were always and everywhere open. As for business, this is a separate issue, but in politics the power of the generals is over. Their actions were considered not only ineffective, but even dangerous. Hagay Alon, an Israeli columnist who was born on that very 1973 year, in an article published in October 2010 in the popular Israeli newspaper Ma'ariv, called the Doomsday War "uncomfortable." He noted that as a result of this war, Israeli claims to the status of a world power began to look untenable. According to Alon, the Jewish state is a strong regional player. Perhaps very strong. But no more than that. Israeli generals - not magicians and wizards. They make mistakes that other military men in other countries committed before them.

A prominent Israeli military historian, a former paratrooper, a participant in the Israeli-Arab battles Uri Milstein in an interview comparing the world wars of the twentieth century to the Doomsday War, drew attention to the following facts: "The Germans took into account the experience of the First World War, when they had to constantly dig in and lead sluggish exchange of fire. They decided that they could no longer fight like that. Germany needs a strong, mobile army capable of attacking the enemy, suppressing its resistance and quickly moving deeper into its territory ... The Germans were mistaken only in one thing: they believed that the Russian army would not be able to regain its power after suffering enormous losses. The Egyptians mistakenly thought that the Israelis would lose their morale after the losses they suffered. ”

In Egypt and Syria, the outcome of the Doomsday War is regarded as a victory. On the one hand, there is a clear exaggeration. On the other hand, it was after that war, as a result of the negotiations, that Israel returned the entire Sinai Peninsula to the Egyptians. Until the last centimeter. However, according to most non-engaged historians, both Israeli and Arab, the Israelis won the Doomsday War, but the Arabs did not lose it.
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  1. Katsin1
    Katsin1 30 October 2013 09: 28 New
    +5
    The victory achieved in the Day of War is more valuable than the victory in the Six Day War. The six day war began with our preemptive strike in the most favorable conditions for us. And the war of the Lease Day, on the contrary, began in the most unfavorable conditions. for us, October 6, 1973 is like you June 22, 1941. and yet, Israel was able to turn the tide of hostilities and end the war with victory. It was after this war that the Arabs realized that they had no chance of winning the war with Israel. It was this war that paved the way for a peace treaty with Egypt.
    1. Ezhaak
      Ezhaak 30 October 2013 11: 10 New
      +1
      However, according to most unbiased historians, both Israeli and Arab, the Doomsday War was won by the Israelis, but the Arabs didn’t lose it either.

      There is nothing to add to what the author himself said!
      1. atalef
        atalef 30 October 2013 13: 06 New
        +2
        Quote: Hedgehog
        However, according to most unbiased historians, both Israeli and Arab, the Doomsday War was won by the Israelis, but the Arabs didn’t lose it either.

        There is nothing to add to what the author himself said!

        It’s a rather controversial statement, the outcome of the war is twofold, on the one hand, peace with Egypt, which is definitely a plus, on the other hand, taking up food for the territories and the Gaza Strip (Egypt did not want it back for anything) Therefore, I would say such results, everyone lost, only the actual loss in the war (of the Arab countries) turned into the loss of Israel in the future (taking on the burden of the Palestinians) Again our moronic and self-confident politicians of that time (with Dayan at the head) It was then necessary to decide both with Gaza and the West Bank, As a result, the ditched billions and a collar around the neck, which by no means wants to climb
        1. Ezhaak
          Ezhaak 30 October 2013 15: 30 New
          0
          Quote: atalef
          peace with Egypt, which is definitely a plus, on the other, taking up food for the territories and the Gaza Strip (Egypt would never want her back)

          I'm begging. Why are we silent about the Golan? Did they also stick to Israel’s neck? Everything is much simpler. Israel does not need a desert. And from the fruiting lands of the Golan Heights, you can get more profit and live there better than in the desert.
          When we talk about something, we don’t have to consider everyone else as fools. Israel is in any case the loser.
          1. faraon
            faraon 31 October 2013 09: 45 New
            0
            Good morning Eugene!
            The Dutch Heights, for Israel it is a strategically important area both on the defense and on the economic side. From them you can control and prevent any attempt to attack from Syria. As well, the water resource of Kineret is of great importance. In my opinion, this is one of the main reasons for the capture of the Dutch heights. Those who have control over water in the Middle East can dictate the conditions that can be done.
            Well, as for the Gaza Strip, until recently (I mean, before the evacuation of settlements and the entire Jewish settlement left the sector), there was a blooming garden. Agricultural products were exported to many countries and accounted for half of the export revenue to the treasury.
            Now it is a desert that cannot even feed itself.
            Well, after the conclusion of a peace treaty and the evacuation of settlements, the population of Gaza was repeatedly invited by Egypt to take control of the Gaza Strip, which President Mubarak said that he does not need the dog that is used to eating with all his might.
            As for the loss, then how to look at it. They won in a purely military sense but lost in the political sphere. The Palestinian card is played in the UN in the League of Arab States and other organizations, but nobody needs them.
            And if, by the will of God, Israel leaves this land, then tomorrow everything will return to square one. Egypt Syria and Jordan will occupy these lands, and the "poor" Palestinian people will remain, as always, with nothing, and the State of Palestine will turn into a rosy dream for them. Since no one will negotiate with them
          2. alex US
            alex US 31 October 2013 20: 33 New
            0
            Hedgehog, have you seen * Gollan fertility *? Pebbles and minefields)))) Israel benefits from your absence on its territory!
      2. Aaron Zawi
        Aaron Zawi 30 October 2013 21: 48 New
        0
        Quote: Hedgehog

        There is nothing to add to what the author himself said!

        Add is always that. Here's a decent article on fighting in the Golan.
        http://www.modernarmy.ru/article/230
    2. revnagan
      revnagan 30 October 2013 12: 06 New
      0
      Quote: Katsin1
      It was after this war that the Arabs realized that they had no chance of winning the war with Israel.

      What was-saw, what will-see ...
      1. catapractic
        catapractic 30 October 2013 18: 01 New
        +1
        we will see nothing but the great Arab-Arab or Arab-Persian religious war
    3. Sandov
      Sandov 30 October 2013 13: 05 New
      +2
      October 8 for Syrian tanks to Haifa, the northern capital of Israel, was only a few hours to go. Israeli air raids were broken on five belts of missile defense, created on the approaches to Damascus. It was then that the world's media first showed captured Israelis. Eyewitnesses of the battles of that October day in the Golan testify: the first three days the Syrians attacked without interruption, wave after wave, passing through minefields and using special bridges overcoming anti-tank ditches. "Katyusha" conducted a powerful shelling of Israeli positions. However, the IDF grouping in the Golan continued fierce resistance.

      If the Jews did not resist, they would be thrown into the sea.

      Only a peace treaty will save them from future destruction. It can only be concluded with the help of Russia. Americans are bleeding to the ears, they have no faith.
      1. catapractic
        catapractic 30 October 2013 18: 03 New
        +5
        what contract, with whom to negotiate?
      2. alex US
        alex US 31 October 2013 20: 36 New
        +1
        Or maybe Russia will deal with its problems? Or is geopolitics worrying?
      3. Kaiten
        Kaiten 17 October 2016 18: 01 New
        0
        Quote: Sandov
        It can only be concluded with the help of Russia. Americans are bleeding to the ears, they have no faith.

        Do you have any? We do not support sanctions against you, and you vote against us at UNESCO.
    4. Walker1975
      Walker1975 30 October 2013 15: 02 New
      10
      The defense of 300 Israeli paratroopers against 10000 Egyptians with tanks is impressive! Such courage is worthy of respect, whoever showed it.
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 30 October 2013 15: 18 New
        +5
        And 180 tanks vs 2000? And it was like that.
        1. Aaron Zawi
          Aaron Zawi 30 October 2013 21: 45 New
          +1
          Quote: Pimply
          And 180 tanks vs 2000? And it was like that.

          177 versus 1300 to be precise. Then do not forget that by the time the "Raful" division approached, 188 and 7 t / br had almost completely died during the fighting on October 6/7. In general, it amazes me how disrespectfully Russians here speak of their allies. After all, the USSR has armed and trained both Syrians and Egyptians since the beginning of the 60s. By the way, it's often quite good.
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 30 October 2013 22: 01 New
            +1
            Quote: Aron Zaavi
            After all, both the Syrians and Egyptians of the USSR have been arming and training since the beginning of the 60's. By the way, it’s often quite good.

            About that and speech. And the preparation of the Arabs at 1973 in Israel has always been praised highly.
          2. Do not care
            Do not care 31 October 2013 08: 20 New
            +2
            Quote: Aaron Zawi
            Quote: Pimply
            And 180 tanks vs 2000? And it was like that.

            ....... In general, it amazes me how disrespectfully the Russians here speak of their allies. After all, both the Syrians and Egyptians of the USSR have been arming and training since the beginning of the 60s. By the way, it’s often quite good.



            What are they allies? They are parasites. Hence the corresponding attitude.
            When Russia had problems with Chechen terrorism, Israel shared its experience of the counterterrorist war, and Arab "friends" were on the other side
      2. Pilat2009
        Pilat2009 30 October 2013 17: 03 New
        +3
        Quote: Walker1975
        Such courage is worthy of respect, whoever showed it.

        Without diminishing the heroism of the Jews, this speaks of the unimportant military training of the Arabs
        1. catapractic
          catapractic 30 October 2013 18: 04 New
          +1
          good there could have been more Papuans, the main thing is that the cartridges should be brought up and the barrel should not overheat
          1. Dezzed
            Dezzed 30 October 2013 19: 48 New
            +3
            And who brought Papuans cartridges on time?
            1. Pilat2009
              Pilat2009 30 October 2013 21: 08 New
              0
              Quote: DezzeD
              And who brought Papuans cartridges on time?

              Perhaps the ammunition was forgotten during the prayer.
            2. catapractic
              catapractic 30 October 2013 23: 15 New
              +3
              probably Allah in the person of TsKKPSS
  2. Rus86
    Rus86 30 October 2013 09: 45 New
    +7
    Yes, as Jews do not belong, warriors noble. and actually proved. although, to be honest, the Arabs are meat under the tracks of Israeli technology.
    1. Walker1975
      Walker1975 30 October 2013 15: 04 New
      +3
      And if they would have been without our equipment ... It is not for nothing that Israel somehow exchanged 1 soldier for more than 1000 Arabs. Arabs appreciated themselves
    2. smirnov
      smirnov 30 October 2013 20: 35 New
      +1
      Yes, they are strong fighters, I remember the stories of my grandfather, how they fought on the Tashkent fronts ...
      1. Kaiten
        Kaiten 17 October 2016 18: 08 New
        0
        Quote: smirnov
        Yes, they are strong fighters, I remember the stories of my grandfather, how they fought on the Tashkent fronts ...


        Why should the Jews sit in the trenches? In the Wehrmacht, after all, so many Jews fought, why fight against their own? And Hitler himself was a Jew. However, somehow the Parkhats managed to exchange for themselves so many titles of "Hero of the Soviet Union" that in percentage terms they were in leading places among the peoples of the USSR. They exchanged for matzo in Tashkent.
  3. Dazdranagon
    Dazdranagon 30 October 2013 09: 57 New
    10
    Israeli claims for world power look insolvent - I almost fell off a chair! There were prerequisites to compete with the USA and the USSR ??? Yeah, they smoked no tobacco there ... laughing
    1. Katsin1
      Katsin1 30 October 2013 10: 08 New
      +7
      No, no one smoked anything and no one claimed the status of a world power. The author of the article simply wrote nonsense about claims for the status of a world power
      1. Ascetic
        Ascetic 30 October 2013 11: 35 New
        +8
        Quote: Katsin1
        The author of the article simply wrote nonsense about claims for the status of a world power


        Author Zahar Gelman - Professor, Doctor of Chemistry and Doctor of Philosophy.He is excusable.
        1. atalef
          atalef 30 October 2013 13: 08 New
          +4
          Quote: Ascetic
          Quote: Katsin1
          The author of the article simply wrote nonsense about claims for the status of a world power


          Author Zahar Gelman - Professor, Doctor of Chemistry and Doctor of Philosophy.He is excusable.

          Yes, some conclusions are controversial, probably for myself something has been welded, and then
        2. Pimply
          Pimply 30 October 2013 14: 20 New
          +2
          A Ph.D. is not necessarily a philosopher. Just a degree, awarded to people engaged in scientific research.
  4. faraon
    faraon 30 October 2013 10: 23 New
    +4
    Thanks to the author of the article for an excursion into the history of the state of Israel, which shows both the defeats and the victories of Tzahal in the Yom Kippur War, and the opponents of the Egyptians, Syrians, and others who courageously fought with Tzahal are also not forgotten. in relation to Israel.
    But now, all the mistakes of the past wars have been taken into account, professionals are at the helm of the state, in the army as well, the entire defense structure of the armed forces is now working ahead of schedule, because if the war happens they will not hope for anything, but only for their own strength.
    1. Ezhaak
      Ezhaak 30 October 2013 11: 22 New
      +3
      "all mistakes of the past wars have been taken into account"
      Oh what? It’s impossible to take everything into account. Be sure to miss something.
      "professionals are at the helm of the state"
      Is this Netanyahu a professional? He sleeps and sees how to send you to the front. True, sometimes trying to do business with the hands of amers. And Golda Mayir was also professional.

      When typing Netanyahu's word, the dictionary gave an error and suggested correcting it to "To oppress". In my opinion, the computer still has a mind!
      1. faraon
        faraon 30 October 2013 11: 38 New
        +1
        Good morning, Eugene (Hedgehog). We haven’t talked to you for a long time.
        You are right that it’s not possible to take into account everything and that all errors can be corrected, too, but most of them can do it.
        Well, the fact that Netanyahu is not a professional can be argued here. He is primarily an economist and not weak at all. The reforms that he pursues are not popular among the people, no one denies this, but the result is obvious. As it is now in the future. And it has been proven more than once.

        Well, as far as foreign policy is concerned, Israel cannot carry it out on its own, because if you do it, it is the destiny of all small states (colonies and other entities), you always need a protectorate of a stronger state. Here it has to turn around like a snake in a frying pan. Sometimes decisions are not popular but there is no other way.

        Well, what he sleeps and sees, of course, is interesting to know. But in Israel the whole system is set up so that there are weapons on hand (excluding the Arab population), the country is small, placed in conditions of survival with peace-loving neighbors, so our front begins as soon as you go beyond the threshold of the house. I’m not saying that you immediately start shooting and doing everything that a soldier in the army should do, I’m talking about what you can start doing at any moment.
        1. Ezhaak
          Ezhaak 30 October 2013 12: 27 New
          -1
          Good morning, Misha.
          Quote: faraon
          Well, the fact that Netanyahu is not a professional can be argued

          The point of arguing? As a rule, one fool in a dispute, another scoundrel. But to talk, is another matter! fellow
          Even in Israel, this professional does not suit everyone. He does not even have 50% of the vote, not to mention that he is "rightist". As Lieberman used to say: "Only the wall rules me."
          Quote: faraon
          the system is set up so that there are weapons on hand, (excluding the Arab population)

          In part, this is what I mean when talking about a likely war. And if I am able to understand the attitude towards terrorists, then I do not understand the interference in the Syrian war and the support, albeit a small one, of the so-called SSA. We fight with the terrorists ourselves and support them. Well, I don’t understand. Although, if this is done with the aim of weakening, destroying the Assad regime, one can understand, but what is the name of the ruling circles of Israel? And those who support it.
          1. atalef
            atalef 30 October 2013 13: 22 New
            +1
            Even in Israel, this professional does not suit everyone. He does not even have 50% of the vote, not to mention that he is "rightist". As Lieberman used to say: "Only the wall rules me."

            the fact that he does not have 50% does not bother anyone, this is democracy and he received the most, therefore the chairman of the government. I have offhand a thousand examples of the first persons who received 90 and even 99,7% at the same time representing a specific zero
            As for Lieberman, theoretically we are all d'Artagnans, but in general there is still more right to any rightist
            I don’t understand the interference in the Syrian war and the support, albeit a small one, of the so-called SSA.

            It’s stupid to argue about what’s not there, I wouldn’t have any problem saying (if that were the case) that Israel is helping the SSA, since I’m more worried about Russia’s position on Assad on the drum, and if Israel would help the SSA I would say so, because it is in our interests, but the truth is one thing, we are not helping anyone, except that we are not allowing Assad to transfer weapons to Hezbollah and take them out to Lebanon (this is what we care for the Syrian people, weapons need in Syria laughing just a joke, by the way, last week another caravan was bombed, right on the border of Syria and Lebanon. At the same time, the Syrian media hush it up) we don’t care about anything, and in Syria the longer the better. Of course we are treating (it’s not clear why) today we again brought some Syrian wounded to the Safed hospital, asking why the hell should I treat them for my taxes, because they will not appreciate it all the same, and we have enough of our patients. That's all, in general, the news of Yasiriya gives such a minimum of information, as if it were generally on another continent
            1. Ezhaak
              Ezhaak 30 October 2013 15: 34 New
              +1
              Quote: atalef
              it's stupid to argue about what’s not,

              Maybe, BUT ... I pestered the people with pictures on which the Israeli product and many saw them, I doubt that it was just stolen from warehouses and resold to Arabs. Israel takes to itself to cure bandit terrorists, etc.
              1. Katsin1
                Katsin1 30 October 2013 19: 13 New
                0
                We take the wounded on both sides for treatment and do not ask who is on which side. Moreover, we do not publish photographs of patients so as not to endanger their lives in Syria.
                PS And the wounded women and 2-year-old children are also terrorists?
                1. catapractic
                  catapractic 30 October 2013 19: 26 New
                  0
                  I wouldn’t take anyone ... maybe only the Druze at the request of the community
                  1. Pimply
                    Pimply 30 October 2013 20: 28 New
                    +1
                    The IDF command allowed the 3-year-old girl from Syria to be wounded in Israeli battles between the rebel units and the army of Bashar al-Assad.

                    Together with her mother, the girl was taken to the Ziv hospital in Safed.

                    The girl suffers from shrapnel wounds to the eyes. Her condition is evaluated by doctors as moderate.
                    1. Day 11
                      Day 11 30 October 2013 21: 02 New
                      +3
                      Why do you all call them rebels? Ordinary Syrians, who spoke out against Bashar al-Assad in the beginning, have long dawned on something and understood who is who. Now the troops surrender to the authorities and receive an amnesty. But you yourself are all fine You know. Kurds, mostly Sunnis, are against the evil spirits and fight side-by-side with regular parts of the SAA.
                2. Day 11
                  Day 11 30 October 2013 20: 55 New
                  -1
                  YOU? Do not ask which side they are ??? Are you for idiots or something you hold ?????
                  1. Day 11
                    Day 11 31 October 2013 02: 16 New
                    +2
                    Get a fascist grenade
                3. The Indian Joe
                  The Indian Joe 30 October 2013 23: 34 New
                  -3
                  You heal criminals, terrorists who are destroying the Syrian people. And the wounded children and women, it is possible, were wounded by the terrorists who were cured and wounded by you. No, that you are treating them is not a problem. The problem is that you RELEASE them later. And even "don't publish their photos" - thereby endangering the lives of those whom these jackals in human form will continue to kill, after treatment in your hospitals ... You are accomplices of criminals.
                  1. Pimply
                    Pimply 31 October 2013 00: 04 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Injun Joe
                    You treat criminals, terrorists who destroy the Syrian people. And the wounded children and women, it is possible, are wounded by the terrorists cured and wounded by you.

                    That is, a three-year-old Sunni girl is a terrorist?

                    Or, for example, did I have to abandon the terrorist who tried to kill us in 2002, bleed, and not bandage him and not send him for treatment by helicopter?
                    1. The Indian Joe
                      The Indian Joe 31 October 2013 09: 55 New
                      -1
                      That is, a three-year-old Sunni girl is a terrorist
                      Puzzled, you are a demagogue and a petty flood troll, I did not say "all whom you treat are terrorists." And I'm sure you understood what I was talking about.

                      Or, for example, I had to leave the terrorist who tried to kill us in 2002, bleed, and not bandage him and not send him for treatment by helicopter
                      - for those stupid trolls that are on an armored train, I repeat:

                      No, that you treat them is not a problem. The problem is that you LET THEM down later. You are accomplices of criminals.
                      .
                      Do you understand?
                      1. Pimply
                        Pimply 31 October 2013 14: 03 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Injun Joe
                        Do you understand?

                        Oh, who spread our fingers 8)
                      2. The Indian Joe
                        The Indian Joe 1 November 2013 10: 41 New
                        -2
                        But essentially, the truth is that you are letting go of the terrorists you have cured; there’s nothing more for you to answer? Israel is an accomplice to terrorism, IT IS FACT.
        2. Revolver
          Revolver 31 October 2013 04: 14 New
          0
          Quote: Hedgehog
          As Lieberman used to say: "Only the wall rules me."

          Actually, Lieberman quoted Purishkevich hi
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 31 October 2013 08: 37 New
            0
            Quote: Nagan
            Actually, Lieberman quoted Purishkevich

            And for a Jew it was very original.
    2. Dezzed
      Dezzed 30 October 2013 19: 50 New
      0
      Quote: Hedgehog
      Is this Netanyahu a professional?


      Who said that it’s the prime minister who is at the helm? there are other structures
  • faraon
    faraon 30 October 2013 10: 35 New
    +6
    Quote: Dazdranagon
    Israeli claims for world power look insolvent - I almost fell off a chair! There were prerequisites to compete with the USA and the USSR ??? Yeah, they smoked no tobacco there ... laughing


    Yes, no one even thought about the status of a world power, the military doctrine itself says that the army of defense, and not aggression, but with regard to the Doomsday War, it showed everyone that Israel itself was on the verge of destruction, what status of the world power is in question.
    Given the previous mistakes in the leadership of the state and the army, the corresponding conclusions are drawn. And with full responsibility, we can say that the Israel Defense Forces are the strongest and most prepared to conduct hostilities in the Middle East region. But not in the world.
    1. Ascetic
      Ascetic 30 October 2013 12: 04 New
      +6
      Quote: faraon
      . And with full responsibility it can be said that the Israel Defense Forces are the most powerful and prepared to conduct hostilities in the Middle East region. But not in the world.


      A report with a characteristic title was prepared at the BESA Strategic Research Center (Begin-Sadat) "Time is on the Israeli side." It argues that Israel’s superiority in aggregate national power over all its regional adversaries has never been as great as it is now, and this trend will continue in the long run. Posted by Infraim Inbar.
      Time works on the side of Israel
      Indeed, American friends along with the Saudis formatted almost the entire Middle East. Having transformed almost all states in one way or another that posed a military threat to Israel into semi-Papuan formations-Iraq, Syria, Egypt. Only Iran remained in essence. And time
      Israel’s superiority in aggregate indicators of national power over all its regional opponents has never been as great as it is now,
      the Israeli leadership believes that it is now able to cope with Iran alone, and only the US position prevents them from doing so.

      «World for Israel, of course, desirable, but is not the only condition for his survival»
      -said in the conclusion of the report. So we are waiting for another war, where the valiant IDF will wet the hated Arabs or Persians.
      1. igor67
        igor67 30 October 2013 12: 17 New
        -1
        [quote = Ascetic] [quote = faraon].

        [quote] «World for Israel, of course, desirable, but is not the only condition for his survival"[/ Quote] -said in the conclusion of the report. So we are waiting for another war, where the valiant IDF will wet the hated Arabs or Persians. [/ Quote]
        Bloodthirsty you are Stanislav, laughing let there be no war, let alone a ground war, they write right here until the states decide in the Middle East, but Afrikanych is not decisive, I don’t understand his policy at all, embrace the incomprehensible. With Syria, 99.9% that is not, with Egypt all the more, they start the technique for fighting Muslim brothers in Sinai only with the permission of Israel, and not because Israel has a super duper agreement. I also don’t believe in Jordan for how many years I have been traveling along the Jordanian border I have never seen military equipment, either on our side or on their side, you probably saw it like this. Lebanon? Only with Hezbola, with Iran, there are like crustaceans to Kiev,
        1. Ascetic
          Ascetic 30 October 2013 12: 54 New
          +6
          Quote: igor67
          Only with Hezbola, with Iran, there are like crustaceans to Kiev,


          The Saudis will open the corridor, they will pay the costs and go on to Tehran. I’m not bloodthirsty because I’m not a politician, but a military man. And the military never were bloodthirsty if they didn’t become politicians. For the decisions of politicians we pay with our blood. It’s not ANALYTICS who will fight. Scaring the Iranian nuclear threat, it seems to me that more global goals than Israeli security decide .
          1. igor67
            igor67 30 October 2013 13: 45 New
            +2
            Quote: Ascetic
            Quote: igor67
            Only with Hezbola, with Iran, there are like crustaceans to Kiev,


            The Saudis will open the corridor, they will pay the costs and go on to Tehran. I’m not bloodthirsty because I’m not a politician, but a military man. And the military never were bloodthirsty if they didn’t become politicians. For the decisions of politicians we pay with our blood. It’s not ANALYTICS who will fight. Scaring the Iranian nuclear threat, it seems to me that more global goals than Israeli security decide .

            Yes, the Saudis will not open when the corridor is in the first place, the Israeli doctrine of defense and offensive weapons is not here, I think the Israeli army has already been discussed here until the very sexual relations laughing , Aviation itself can’t do anything, it was clearly demonstrated in 2006 by the second Lebanese one, since then the chief of staff was a general from aviation, and we know that all the main thing happens on sinful ground, just from the indecisive policy of Afrikanych, then we’ll hit and don’t hit, we’ll impose sanctions, we won’t introduce it, in short mumble, not a politician, it certainly looks like Gorbochev.
            1. Ascetic
              Ascetic 30 October 2013 15: 00 New
              +7
              Quote: igor67
              Israel’s doctrine of defense and offensive weapons is not here,

              The Doctrine of Israel Reminds Me of the Concept "with little blood and on foreign territory". Which is not surprising if you look at some of the origins of the formation of AOI and its further development.

              The Israeli national security strategy is based on the premise that Israel cannot afford to lose a single war. Because the best way to avoid losing a war, so as not to fight it, first of all, the Israeli strategy begins with maintaining a reliable deterrence position, which includes a willingness to carry out preemptive strikes. If deterrence fails, Israel will seek to prevent escalation, and determine the outcome of the war quickly and decisively. Since he lacks strategic depth, Israel must prevent the enemy from entering its territory, and must try to quickly transfer the battle to enemy territory.
              -I apologize for Google translation
              link
              But a military doctrine with a possible condition for a war on foreign territory cannot be considered defensive, just like ours with the possibility of delivering preventive strikes. Not to mention American and NATO.
              Well, about the lack of offensive weapons, you just offended your army. Though rake is also an offensive weapon
              laughing
              1. Pimply
                Pimply 30 October 2013 15: 11 New
                +1
                Quote: Ascetic
                Israel's doctrine reminds me of the concept of "little blood and on foreign territory." Which is not surprising if you look at some of the origins of the formation of the IDF and its further development.

                Israel has nowhere to retreat. Let's just say, before the so-called. "green line - in some places - 15 km. From the north to the center - three hours drive. There is no strategic depth. Willingly, not willingly."
                1. Ascetic
                  Ascetic 30 October 2013 15: 24 New
                  +7
                  Quote: Pimply
                  Israel simply has nowhere to retreat.

                  The best defense is an offensive. Are you not going to retreat? So the doctrine of the use of armed forces is offensive and not defensive.
                  In general, as always, the dialogue begins to remind me of a bearded joke
                  Two Jews are arguing:
                  - Black is the color.
                  - No, black is not a color.
                  “Yes, I tell you, black is the color.”
                  - Yes, never in my life!
                  “For sure, black is color.”
                  - Nothing like this.
                  - Okay, let's go ask the rabbi what the Torah says about this.
                  Let's go to the rabbi. He looked in the Torah and said:
                  - Yes, the Torah says that black is a color.
                  - Here! What did I tell you? Black is the color!
                  - Okay, black is the color. But not white.
                  - What? White is not a color? White is the color !!!
                  - No, white is not a color.
                  - How so, white is not a color? Since when?
                  - So, not the color and that's it.
                  - Okay, let's go ask the rabbi what the Torah says about this.
                  Again we went to the rabbi. He looked again in the Torah:
                  “The Torah says that white is the color.”
                  First Jew, joyfully:
                  - Well? What did I tell you? I sold you a COLOR TV! laughing
                  1. Pimply
                    Pimply 30 October 2013 15: 51 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Ascetic
                    The best defense is an offensive. Are you not going to retreat? So the doctrine of the use of armed forces is offensive and not defensive.

                    I do not argue with that. Just complementing.
                2. Motors1991
                  Motors1991 30 October 2013 16: 02 New
                  +2
                  It would be like we have, where to drape - drapanuli, and so behind Moscow (Tel Aviv, Jerusalem) there is nowhere to retreat, and not the Urals, but the waters of the Mediterranean behind them, because the Israelis resisted and will rest, there is nowhere to go. Victory or death, they have no other options.
              2. igor67
                igor67 30 October 2013 16: 24 New
                +1
                Quote: Ascetic
                . Although rake is also an offensive weapon
                laughing

                Well, the offensive rolling pin wassat ,
          2. Katsin1
            Katsin1 30 October 2013 13: 52 New
            +3
            You only surrender, nothing more. You simply transfer Russian realities to Israeli soil, and here we have a different alignment. Both politicians and the military have one order of priorities in resolving the Iranian problem:
            1) a diplomatic decision depriving Iran of the ability to enrich uranium
            2) a military solution to the problem by the American army
            3) if the first 2 options are impossible - Israeli military solution to the problem
            1. Ascetic
              Ascetic 30 October 2013 16: 08 New
              +7
              Quote: Katsin1
              . You simply transfer Russian realities to Israeli soil, and here we have a different alignment.


              Rather, Israeli realities are being transferred to Russian soil, for example, to separate the Caucasus and fence it off. All liberal pro-Israeli media insist on this, we must learn from Israel the experience of fighting terrorism, we must apply the experience of Israel in the Caucasus. Israel’s experience is outstanding and the best, it has no alternative. Especially during the Chechen war - it’s necessary to demolish the houses of militants and destroy or severely punish their families and relatives. That is, in this way, a policy of segregation on a national basis and the construction of security walls are openly lobbyed. The idea of ​​creating and the experience of building a Zionist state on a racial basis is transferred to Russian multinational soil. Instead of fighting the Caucasian semi-criminal diasporas with their business and corruption ties that grew out of the Soviet underground underground economy, their influence in the government through the nationalization of the elites, knock this whole tip in Moscow, let's clean up a piece of the mountainous region called Chechnya or Dagestan, or even separate and enclose a wall like they do in Israel, we will chase the militants perpetually through the mountains like a slipper after cockroaches with the same effect, shoot their relatives and destroy them at home, instead of crushing the leaders in Moscow along with the fifth column in addition.
              1. Pimply
                Pimply 30 October 2013 17: 49 New
                +1
                Quote: Ascetic
                The idea of ​​creating and the experience of building a Zionist state on a racial basis is transferred to Russian multinational soil.
                Israel, to put it mildly, is not homogeneous, both inside and outside the main ethnic group.
              2. In the reeds
                In the reeds 30 October 2013 22: 41 New
                +5
                It’s not quite so with you yet, but the trend is not devoid of sad thoughts. In our country, if they manage to carry out a terrorist attack, public festivities do not stop in Gaza until morning. Cars honk, someone shoots into the air from a Kalash. And on every corner they give out sweets for free. Yesterday at 5 in the morning I heard the Kipat Barzel rocket go off for a long time ... Only one rocket flashed over the sleeping Ashkelon ... Then an explosion-intercepted far away ... And today it is raining and I am sitting with the secretary Leumit Health Insurance Fund ... The phone rings, she answers her 11-year-old son, "Don't be afraid, it's not a rocket, it's thunder." Beautiful Russian woman named Inna works in our Shimshonim department
          3. ruslan207
            ruslan207 30 October 2013 20: 52 New
            +3
            In Iran, 80 ml of the population, and Saud with other hands want chestnuts from the fire to get with such friends and enemies do not need
        2. catapractic
          catapractic 30 October 2013 19: 32 New
          0
          Barack Bananych will ever end badly wassat
          1. Revolver
            Revolver 31 October 2013 04: 36 New
            0
            Quote: cataphractium
            Barack Bananych will ever end badly wassat
            It is unlikely. Even when he leaves the White House, he will be given Secret Service security for life. Again, I don’t know if he goes to the theaters *, but he definitely doesn’t stand on the platform ** and he doesn’t go around Dallas in an open limousine. ***

            * Lincoln shot dead at the theater in 1865
            ** James Garfield shot dead on a platform while waiting for a train in 1881
            *** Kennedy shot dead in Dallas in 1963
      2. Sandov
        Sandov 30 October 2013 13: 12 New
        +1
        Ascetic Jewish superethnos captured almost all the key states of Europe and America. Having crushed all national governments, it dictates its will. They managed without a dodger.
      3. catapractic
        catapractic 30 October 2013 19: 29 New
        0
        Well, the Persians are hardly very far
  • Migari
    Migari 30 October 2013 10: 47 New
    +1
    Quote: faraon
    Thanks to the author of the article for an excursion into the history of the state of Israel, which shows both the defeats and the victories of Tzahal in the Yom Kippur War, and the opponents of the Egyptians, Syrians, and others who courageously fought with Tzahal are also not forgotten. in relation to Israel.
    But now, all the mistakes of the past wars have been taken into account, professionals are at the helm of the state, in the army as well, the entire defense structure of the armed forces is now working ahead of schedule, because if the war happens they will not hope for anything, but only for their own strength.

    The United States does not and did not have friends, it has only its own interests, this can be clearly seen from your conclusions and recent events that confirm this, the Saudis are no longer friends, about hearing, their allies, ITD.
    1. Katsin1
      Katsin1 30 October 2013 10: 55 New
      0
      Any country has no friends, only interests
      1. Far East
        Far East 30 October 2013 13: 00 New
        -1
        Quote: Katsin1
        Any country has no friends, only interests

        and you know, sho is a MOTHERLAND! laughing but talk about friends! hi
        1. atalef
          atalef 30 October 2013 14: 03 New
          +3
          Quote: Far East
          Quote: Katsin1
          Any country has no friends, only interests

          and you know, sho is a MOTHERLAND! laughing but talk about friends! hi

          Read what was written in the article and tell me why the Jews fought?
          1. Far East
            Far East 30 October 2013 14: 34 New
            -5
            Quote: atalef
            Read what was written in the article and tell me why the Jews fought?

            I now know who a Jew is! But sho is a homeland! I asked you to write.! yourself (not) you certainly wrote but YOUR! of course it is necessary ... to go under someone, sho would not touch! and now you can Bark! he is not your friend, he is your pimp! hi
            1. atalef
              atalef 30 October 2013 14: 37 New
              +3
              Quote: Far East

              I now know who a Jew is! But sho is a homeland! I asked you to write.! yourself (not) you certainly wrote but YOUR! of course it is necessary ... to go under someone, sho would not touch! and now you can Bark! he is not your friend, he is your pimp! hi

              Yes, I do not feed the trolls and on Wednesdays I do not serve. hi
              Good luck in your hard work laughing
              1. Far East
                Far East 30 October 2013 15: 18 New
                -8
                Quote: atalef
                Yes, I do not feed the trolls and on Wednesdays I do not serve.

                dear, for troll it is possible and for SAPAPKA hi !
                1. atalef
                  atalef 30 October 2013 20: 45 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Far East
                  dear, for troll it is possible and for SAPAPKA

                  those. I now, like, should be scared. laughing
                2. Aaron Zawi
                  Aaron Zawi 30 October 2013 21: 50 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Far East

                  dear, for troll it is possible and for SAPAPKA hi !

                  This is always please. wassat
    2. faraon
      faraon 30 October 2013 11: 18 New
      0
      Yes, what kind of friends they are, they constantly "twist the arms" of the government of the State of Israel, in relation to the domestic and foreign policy of the state. Everything that happens in the Middle East region, and in Israel itself, is the policy of the United States. It imposes its own rules, laws. And not only in everything world, which is confirmed by the recent scandal with wiretapping.
      America has no friends, but has its own interests in the world, and nothing more, their words and actions are deceitful, just like their "peace-loving" policy. But Israel is a very small state, it needs the patronage of a stronger state, and this cannot be avoided, the government has to reckon with the opinion of the stronger, and is considered like a crucian carp in a frying pan.
      1. Far East
        Far East 30 October 2013 13: 03 New
        -2
        Quote: faraon
        But Israel is a very small state, it needs the patronage of a stronger state, and this cannot be avoided, the government has to reckon with the opinion of a stronger one, and believes like crucian in a pan.

        baaa! what am i reading! I don’t believe my eyes. dear you right now tear your own! laughing then you are not Proud! and so-so LONGER! lol hi
        1. Far East
          Far East 30 October 2013 13: 56 New
          -2
          Oh! friends have appeared! how I adore you! tell me, sho is MOTHERLAND! hi
          1. In the reeds
            In the reeds 31 October 2013 00: 05 New
            +3
            And we love you. And the respected Homeland is not at all a globe of the Russian Federation. And, as for you personally, as for the Far East, a place where you will not have to learn Chinese
        2. faraon
          faraon 30 October 2013 14: 41 New
          +3
          On the contrary, you are astray, and we are proud, for our country, Israel, for our army, for the children and grandchildren who serve in this army and, if necessary, will punish any aggressor.
          1. vedmeddd
            vedmeddd 30 October 2013 14: 55 New
            -5
            Well, they’ll punish you! Yes, you are alive, while America supports you, there will be no America (to which everything goes), the Arabs will tear you to the British flag!
            1. atalef
              atalef 30 October 2013 15: 06 New
              +4
              Quote: vedmeddd
              Well, they’ll punish you! Yes, you are alive, while America supports you, there will be no America (to which everything goes), the Arabs will tear you to the British flag!

              Well, to say that we are alive while America supports us, the same as saying that you are alive until China oppressed you
              1. Revolver
                Revolver 31 October 2013 04: 44 New
                +3
                Quote: atalef
                Well, to say that we are alive while America supports us, the same as saying that you are alive until China oppressed you

                In this discussion, America in my person supports you. Plus to you. And the Far East minus for trolling.
        3. Pimply
          Pimply 30 October 2013 15: 12 New
          0
          Quote: Far East
          baaa! what am i reading! I don’t believe my eyes. dear you right now tear your own! then you are not Proud! and so-so LONGER!

          Trolling on the site is punishable by ban.
      2. catapractic
        catapractic 30 October 2013 23: 33 New
        0
        God save us from such druganov, and how to sort things out with our enemies
  • KG_patriot_last
    KG_patriot_last 30 October 2013 11: 11 New
    0
    The strangest thing is that in Egypt, Iraq and Syria, slightly different Arabs than in Saudi Arabia, Qatar, the United Arab Emirates, Yemen, Kuwait, Oman ... They generally have almost nothing against the Jews ... Palestinians laugh so generally - with Jews as husband and wife - it seems like a common house, but they fight for every room, every child, every idea and dishes ...
    1. faraon
      faraon 30 October 2013 11: 23 New
      +4
      Yes, it looks like this, but rather, like the brothers who share the father’s inheritance increased by the efforts of the older brother. Moreover, the younger one’s appetite is increasing, he asks more and more each time. And the problem is not that he will be given the problem in another, that he will overwhelm the entire parental business and remain in the investigation with nothing.
      1. LSV
        LSV 30 October 2013 13: 01 New
        -4
        They only ask for one, but others grow in the territory)))
      2. The comment was deleted.
  • igor67
    igor67 30 October 2013 11: 28 New
    +2
    I was stunned by the last phrase that the power of the generals was over ?? !!!! well, I repatriated in 2000, the former General Barak was in power to replace him with General Sharon, before this was Yitzhak Rabin, in short, on the contrary, the power of the generals began.
    1. atalef
      atalef 30 October 2013 13: 27 New
      +4
      Quote: igor67
      I was stunned by the last phrase that the power of the generals was over ?? !!!! well, I repatriated in 2000, the former General Barak was in power to replace him with General Sharon, before this was Yitzhak Rabin, in short, on the contrary, the power of the generals began.

      Yes, Igoryanych, I had the same perplexity with me, apparently by the end of the article there was an enumeration of the dose, I have in El. companies, Gen. director (former commander of the special forces of the Navy, chairman of the board of directors - brigadier general, head of the substation - lieutenant colonel of the Navy and, in general, show me at least one retired military officer who is not sitting in a warm place, lied to Zakhar, lied
      1. igor67
        igor67 30 October 2013 13: 38 New
        +3
        Quote: atalef
        Quote: igor67
        I was stunned by the last phrase that the power of the generals was over ?? !!!! well, I repatriated in 2000, the former General Barak was in power to replace him with General Sharon, before this was Yitzhak Rabin, in short, on the contrary, the power of the generals began.

        Yes, Igoryanych, I had the same perplexity with me, apparently by the end of the article there was an enumeration of the dose, I have in El. companies, Gen. director (former commander of the special forces of the Navy, chairman of the board of directors - brigadier general, head of the substation - lieutenant colonel of the Navy and, in general, show me at least one retired military officer who is not sitting in a warm place, lied to Zakhar, lied

        Gabi Ashkinazi (former chief of staff, also general) is looking for oil
        1. atalef
          atalef 30 October 2013 13: 48 New
          +4
          Gabi Ashkinazi (former chief of staff, also general) is looking for oil

          Igoryanich, the list is endless, all trading networks (director general) El Al, Teva, frequent banks, Raphael, Selkom, Orange, chemistry and petrochemistry, Dead Sea factories, ports, road construction, railway. roads, etc., etc., and even the chairman of the house committee in my house (former ensign) --- truth, we ourselves chose it laughing
  • ParapaPanda
    ParapaPanda 30 October 2013 11: 40 New
    -4
    Noble fighters, no one argues. The Arabs tried to crush the meat, but it didn’t work out. Crap. But Israel should not forget that the IDF fought with only one enemy and experience, however, is not enough.
    1. faraon
      faraon 30 October 2013 11: 45 New
      +2
      Why do you think so, fought simultaneously with three states, and even with units from third countries (judge article), of course they were all Muslims (Arabs). Well, as far as experience is concerned, Israel will constantly increase its defense ability by analyzing military operations carrying out reforms and reorganizations in the army, contributing to the increase of the country's defense capability.
    2. igor67
      igor67 30 October 2013 11: 49 New
      +2
      Quote: ParapaPanda
      Noble fighters, no one argues. The Arabs tried to crush the meat, but it didn’t work out. Crap. But Israel should not forget that the IDF fought with only one enemy and experience, however, is not enough.

      With one, are you an army of Arabs with tens of thousands of Soviet military experts? I had a teacher in the school, an NVV lieutenant colonel, he participated in the Doomsday War, on his account there were three shot down Israeli planes (shot down with an arrow). I myself did not serve in the army because I did not reach the age, but my daughter is two years old, you understand they are especially guys in the army for three years, I will repeat for three years seriously studying, and not like in Ukraine my friend ensign loaded 131 zil in his time dig a potato soldier, then in Israel annual fees, I grew up near a military unit and saw our partisans every year and these fees, 80 percent did not dry out.
      1. creak
        creak 30 October 2013 16: 05 New
        +3
        There is no need to cast a shadow on the wattle fence - after the withdrawal of the Soviet Air Defense Division and military advisers in 1972, in Egypt in 1973 there remained only a small group of technical specialists for repair and maintenance of equipment .. But they never directly participated in the hostilities, neither before the Doomsday War, nor after ... These stories about three planes shot down by one specialist are only suitable for schoolchildren ...
        I know this not from the military commander’s fantasies, who didn’t seem to be there at all and heard about these events from someone else, but from my own experience since I had the opportunity to serve in the Suez Canal zone during this period ..
        1. igor67
          igor67 30 October 2013 17: 45 New
          +3
          Quote: ranger
          There is no need to cast a shadow on the wattle fence - after the withdrawal of the Soviet Air Defense Division and military advisers in 1972, in Egypt in 1973 there remained only a small group of technical specialists for repair and maintenance of equipment .. But they never directly participated in the hostilities, neither before the Doomsday War, nor after ... These stories about three planes shot down by one specialist are only suitable for schoolchildren ...
          I know this not from the military commander’s fantasies, who didn’t seem to be there at all and heard about these events from someone else, but from my own experience since I had the opportunity to serve in the Suez Canal zone during this period ..

          I don’t argue about the tales, but he brought three Syrian orders and letters from Pope Assad (the orders to the statue are so beautiful)
      2. catapractic
        catapractic 30 October 2013 23: 38 New
        0
        Yes, it’s difficult to compare the darlings with the Spartans, but you have enough dexterity.
  • LSV
    LSV 30 October 2013 12: 49 New
    -1
    I must say that the agent "Angel" worked for MOSSAD. Under this pseudonym was none other than Asraf Marouan, the son-in-law of former President Nasser, who, after the death of his father-in-law, received a position in the office of the new president Anwar Sadat. It was the "Angel" who transmitted the information about the Egyptian breakthrough preparing for Sinai

    To go nuts, they were able to recruit such a shot. How much dough was promised to him that he went to such a thing.)
    Whatever the Jews say, the present Arab spring and the destruction of Iraq are beneficial to Israel. The rivals of the Jews were:
    - Iraq. But Iraq has almost collapsed.
    - Egypt. In Egypt, too, is now straining.
    - Syria. She's not sweet right now either.
    - Libya provided support. What is Libya now I think it’s not worth writing, and so everyone sees everything.
    Lepota, Kule). Therefore, I am not surprised by reports of Israel's interest in the Arab and the spring, because it is harder to fight with states than with an unorganized crowd.
    1. Katsin1
      Katsin1 30 October 2013 13: 55 New
      +3
      For this, we even cut the military budget ...
    2. Pimply
      Pimply 30 October 2013 15: 17 New
      +3
      Quote: LSV
      Therefore, I am not surprised by reports of Israel's interest in the Arab and the spring, because it is harder to fight with states than with an unorganized crowd.

      Debatable. The state has clearly defined leaders and can capitulate.
      Quote: LSV
      - Egypt. In Egypt, too, is now straining.

      Egypt and Mubarraq were quite happy with Israel.
  • Tourist Breakfast
    Tourist Breakfast 30 October 2013 13: 09 New
    0
    The author added some of his fantasies to the article regarding the alleged presence of the mysterious US SAM missiles in the Syrian army.
    "TOW" in 73, too, was not used from helicopters yet, and the Arabs were hardly supplied by their states then.

    ATGM TOW ("Tou"; ATGM BGM-71A; range - 3,000 m) - delivered to Israel from the United States during the war (according to one source, 2,000 ATGMs of this type arrived); apparently, before 24.10.73 they didn’t have time to use the “Tou” in battle
  • Voskepar
    Voskepar 30 October 2013 13: 24 New
    +2
    Once again, the Jews showed that in war, not everything decides the number of l / s on the battlefield. As well as the quantity of weapons.
    It all depends on who, why, and what is fighting for.
  • Zymran
    Zymran 30 October 2013 13: 51 New
    +2
    The Americans delivered Damascus type SAM rockets (the first letter S from the English word Surface, translated into Russian - “surface”; letter A from English Air - “air”; M from Missle - translated “target”). It was these missiles that made up the power of Syrian air defense during the Doomsday War, which caused significant damage to Israeli aviation.


    In my opinion, this is a clear heresy and why call the missiles SAM, and then decipher the names, if you can just say "surface-to-air". Or is it for greater intrigue?
    1. Tourist Breakfast
      Tourist Breakfast 30 October 2013 14: 09 New
      +3
      In my opinion, this is a clear heresy and why call the missiles SAM, and then decipher the names, if you can just say "surface-to-air". Or is it for greater intrigue?


      Yes, complete nonsense. Soviet air defense systems according to NATO classification are called SAM.
      1. Zymran
        Zymran 30 October 2013 14: 15 New
        +3
        Yes, and Missile, and not like the author of Missle, is still not a target, but a missile. laughing
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Zymran
    Zymran 30 October 2013 15: 59 New
    +2
    Is there more accurate data on the Battle of the Chinese farm?

    The author writes

    And in fact, 300 thousand Egyptian soldiers fought against the 10 Israeli paratroopers, 2 thousand tanks went against them.


    Egyptian wiki
    One infantry brigade
    One mechanized brigade
    Two understrength armored brigades
    136tanks

    The Israelites
    One reinforced armored brigade
    Initially 97tanks, later:
    One armored division and one paratrooper brigade

    Apparently, the author’s statements are again noodles like American SAM rockets in Syrians.
    1. Tourist Breakfast
      Tourist Breakfast 30 October 2013 17: 21 New
      +1
      Is there more accurate data on the Battle of the Chinese farm?


      There were several battles for different objects and on different days. More details here:

      http://www.waronline.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9771
      1. Zymran
        Zymran 30 October 2013 18: 13 New
        +3
        Thanks for the link, there was a big battle, 300 paratroopers who repelled 2 thousands of tanks is a myth, of course, but the battles were fierce.
    2. Pimply
      Pimply 30 October 2013 17: 56 New
      +1
      Quote: Zymran
      Apparently, the author’s statements are again noodles like American SAM rockets in Syrians.

      The author simply does not go into the details of the battle - but it was not one, and the battle was not one. Fighting there went for several days.
  • falcon
    falcon 30 October 2013 16: 05 New
    +3
    The article is controversial. But I would like to say this. Somehow, here, on the resource, rooted
    the opinion that AOI is a powerful, elite army. And where does this opinion come from? The strength of the army of any state
    determined by the strength of the armies of his opponents. And AOI has never, I repeat, never encountered
    with a universally recognized strong army. (I hope no one will argue that the combat readiness of the armies
    of the above Arab states was extremely low in 1973.) The number of countries
    opponents of Israel, in this case, it does not matter, because it only made command and control difficult,
    due to the lack of a single focal point. And the lack of strategic depth, in
    In this case, it has not only minuses, but also pluses (the possibility of quick maneuver by groupings
    forces and means, the shortest term for the complete mobilization of the army, etc.)
    1. Tourist Breakfast
      Tourist Breakfast 30 October 2013 17: 22 New
      0
      I hope no one will argue that the combat readiness of the armies
      of the above Arab states was extremely low in 1973.


      I will argue. What is your conclusion?
      1. Aaron Zawi
        Aaron Zawi 30 October 2013 21: 56 New
        0
        I hope no one will argue that the combat readiness of the armies
        of the above Arab states was extremely low in 1973.

        And I will argue. After an urgent, I still served in the reservist battalion in 94-95 with soldiers who fought in the Golan against the Syrians. Not a word of neglect about the Syrians. According to them, there was hell.
      2. falcon
        falcon 30 October 2013 22: 03 New
        0
        Quote: Tourist Breakfast


        I will argue. What is your conclusion?

        This is not a conclusion, it is a thesis. And it is based on the understanding that there is such an army
        (namely the army, not a bunch of illiterate armed fellahs). And from this
        the thesis, the conclusion already follows that the IDF has never been opposed by a serious
        war machine (in the modern sense). Hand on heart, please
        answer, do you really think the armies of Egypt, Syria, Jordan
        combat-ready, and if yes, then what is their combat effectiveness?
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 30 October 2013 22: 06 New
          +2
          Quote: falcon
          . Hand on heart, please
          answer, do you really think the armies of Egypt, Syria, Jordan
          combat-ready, and if yes, then what is their combat effectiveness?

          Dear, for starters you have cited the thesis of incapacity. Right? So convince us that it is. Give clear arguments.
          1. falcon
            falcon 30 October 2013 22: 30 New
            0
            Quote: Pimply

            Dear, for starters you have cited the thesis of incapacity. Right? So convince us that it is. Give clear arguments.

            I will answer you in terms of formal logic. Armies of Egypt, Syria, Jordan
            in the latest period of history did not win a single war! Not one! And you
            claim that these armies are combat-ready?
            1. atalef
              atalef 30 October 2013 22: 46 New
              +3
              Quote: falcon
              I will answer you in terms of formal logic. Armies of Egypt, Syria, Jordan
              in the latest period of history did not win a single war!

              Same as Germany and Japan

              Quote: falcon
              None !

              I, I, naturlih

              Quote: falcon
              And you
              claim that these armies are combat-ready?

              definitely not for that (following your logic)
              The Moldavian army did not lose a war (as by the way Ukrainian, Belorussian and most importantly Uzbek and Mongolian) and they are the most combat-ready.
              Bravo dogma, aren't you blond by any chance?
              1. Day 11
                Day 11 30 October 2013 22: 51 New
                0
                Alexander, why didn’t you comment on the video? After all, the Kurds always bent their line, and then they sifted out where it smells of smoke and what it all will lead to!
              2. falcon
                falcon 30 October 2013 23: 28 New
                0
                Quote: atalef
                Quote: falcon
                I will answer you in terms of formal logic. Armies of Egypt, Syria, Jordan
                in the latest period of history did not win a single war!

                Same as Germany and Japan



                Quote: falcon
                And you
                claim that these armies are combat-ready?

                definitely not for that (following your logic)
                The Moldavian army did not lose a war (as by the way Ukrainian, Belorussian and most importantly Uzbek and Mongolian) and they are the most combat-ready.

                I’ll tell you a secret, as a historian to a historian, the period of recent history
                covers the past about a hundred years. And during this time indicated by me
                the armies (Egypt, Syria, Jordan) managed to fight almost half a dozen times.
                Moreover, here Ukraine and Belarus, it is not entirely clear to me. Read
                more attentive comments
                Quote: atalef
                Are you not blond by any chance?

                By chance, no. Just a smart person.
                1. atalef
                  atalef 30 October 2013 23: 38 New
                  0
                  Quote: atalef
                  Are you not blond by any chance?




                  By chance, no. Just a smart person.


                  and modest, peace be upon you, du .... enrich with a thought (old Russian proverb)
            2. Pimply
              Pimply 30 October 2013 23: 13 New
              +2
              You have very little knowledge of history. For starters, what is the latest period for you? 20 century? Jordan and Syria appeared only in the 20-th century, Jordan in the 1946-m, Syria - in the 1940-m. When else should they have won?
              Oh well.
              Egypt participated in the Persian Gulf War in 1991. Victory. And do not say that there was a coalition - wars are not so often waged outside of coalitions. In World War II, Germany had a coalition, and the USSR, too.
              Did the Egyptian-Libyan war disappear?

              Black September in Jordan? Armed with the Palestinians were worse than another army, if you do not know.

              Or maybe you also consider the gain in the territories of Egypt and Jordan in the War of Independence of Israel to be a loss?


              In addition, your logic is wildly lame. Tell me, Germany lost in the First and Second World Wars. Does this mean that Germany had an incompetent army.
              1. falcon
                falcon 31 October 2013 00: 51 New
                -1
                Pimpled.
                I dare to note that you have a unique manner of conducting discussion
                to women. Accuse the opponent of what he is not sinful, and then
                try to replace the thesis, to justify their innocence.
                Quote: Pimply
                You have very little knowledge of history. For starters, what is the latest period for you? 20th century?

                So, all serious historians, not just me, to modern history
                carry the period from about the 1920 years, and until now. This is for you
                memory :))
                Quote: Pimply

                Egypt participated in the Persian Gulf War in 1991. Victory.

                Yeah. Uruguay also emerged victorious in a fierce battle with the Nazi
                Germany in 2MB.
                Quote: Pimply


                Or maybe you also consider the gain in the territories of Egypt and Jordan in the War of Independence of Israel to be a loss?

                And I thought that Israel won in the war for independence! And there,
                it turns out there were several winners! In your homeland
                revolutionary, with such a knowledge of the history of his native country!
                Quote: Pimply


                Tell me, Germany lost in the First and Second World Wars. Does this mean that Germany had an incompetent army.

                Your question is an amateur question. Germany had a first-class army
                in 2MB (recent history). She defeated the equally powerful France,
                defeated the British army, and a number of other European armies.
                Only our Army was more combat-ready, and won in 2MV.
                This was about this and was my first comment that distorted you so much.
                The power of any army is known in comparison (heard about the method of comparative
                analysis?). The combat capabilities of our army are tested in battles with
                first-class opponents. And your army, in battles with, sorry,
                native troops. Well, these are not strong opponents, no matter how you
                I wanted to introduce them as such! And learn to lead a discussion, strong
                emotions are the first sign of a weak position. Sincerely.
                1. Pimply
                  Pimply 31 October 2013 02: 20 New
                  0
                  Quote: falcon
                  I dare to note that you have a unique manner of conducting discussion
                  to women. Accuse the opponent of what he is not sinful, and then
                  try to replace the thesis, to justify their innocence.

                  You tried to hurt me ineptly? 8) Children's insults when they point out to you your illiteracy?

                  Quote: falcon
                  So, all serious historians, not just me, to modern history
                  carry the period from about the 1920 years, and until now. This is for you
                  memory :))

                  And which ones? Or do you focus on Wiki? Or Marxian modern history? The latest history includes 20 century and modernity. Controversial opinions exist regarding the start date of "recent history." The countdown is from 1898 (the beginning of the Spanish-American war), 1899 (the beginning of the Boer War), 1914 or 1918 years (the beginning and end of the First World War). For Russian history, the 1896 (coronation of Nicholas II), 1905 (first Russian revolution), 1914 and 1917 years are indicated. Often the source of "recent history" is not tied to a specific historical event, but the countdown is from the calendar beginning of the 20 century (1900 or 1901). This is if you do not taste.


                  Quote: falcon
                  Yeah. Uruguay also emerged victorious in a fierce battle with the Nazi
                  Germany in 2MB.

                  Well, whoever won you is surely stronger than that, no? The army of Uruguay according to your logic should be more combat-ready.


                  Quote: falcon
                  Your question is an amateur question. Germany had a first-class army
                  in 2MB (recent history). She defeated the equally powerful France,
                  defeated the British army, and a number of other European armies.
                  Only our Army was more combat-ready, and won in 2MV.


                  But did she lose in the war? You are so logical. Judging by your logic, she was not operational.

                  The German army, which defeated the British in the Battle of Dunkirk, is battle-worthy, while the Egyptian army, which took the Bar-Lev line, is not.

                  Brilliant! BRAVO! PRIZE FOR LOGIC IN STUDIO!

                  Quote: falcon
                  And learn to lead a discussion, strong
                  emotions are the first sign of a weak position. Sincerely.

                  That is, you do not know the story well, with the logic of the problem you have, you resentfully call my arguments feminine - but, it turns out, I don’t know how to discuss? Oh, I killed 8)

                  You can’t give arguments, you don’t know history. Oh, how amused, thanks 8)
                  1. falcon
                    falcon 31 October 2013 04: 02 New
                    0
                    Quote: Pimply
                    Quote: falcon
                    I dare to note that you have a unique manner of conducting discussion
                    to women. Accuse the opponent of what he is not sinful, and then
                    try to replace the thesis, to justify their innocence.

                    You tried to hurt me ineptly?

                    Have you tried? Ineptly? In my opinion you are really vulnerable. As they say
                    not in the eyebrow, but in the eye! Well, do not be offended, not from evil :))
                    Quote: Pimply
                    The recent history includes the 20th century and modernity. Controversial opinions exist regarding the start date of "recent history." The countdown is from 1898 (the beginning of the Spanish-American War), 1899 (the beginning of the Boer War), 1914 or 1918 (the beginning and end of the First World War). For Russian history indicate 1896 (the coronation of Nicholas II), 1905 (the first Russian revolution), 1914 and 1917. Often the source of "recent history" is not tied to a specific historical event, but the countdown is from the calendar beginning of the 20th century (1900 or 1901).

                    Googled, well done. At least some benefit from our discussion. But I
                    claimed the same :))
                    Quote: Pimply



                    Quote: falcon
                    Yeah. Uruguay also emerged victorious in a fierce battle with the Nazi
                    Germany in 2MB.

                    Well, whoever won you is surely stronger than that, no? The army of Uruguay according to your logic should be more combat-ready.

                    There was an irony about Uruguay :)) From now on I will put emoticons.
                    Quote: Pimply


                    The German army, which defeated the British in the Battle of Dunkirk, is battle-worthy, while the Egyptian army, which took the Bar-Lev line, is not.

                    Everything happens in war, even taking the Bar-Lev line. The only exception
                    confirms the rule!
                    Quote: Pimply


                    Brilliant! BRAVO! PRIZE FOR LOGIC IN STUDIO!

                    Thank you for recognizing my humble virtues :))
                    Quote: Pimply
                    Oh, I killed 8)

                    You can’t give arguments, you don’t know history. Oh, how amused, thanks 8)

                    Well, this is a female hysteria. You have no humor, there is aggression, but no humor. :)) It is not interesting.
                    1. Pimply
                      Pimply 31 October 2013 05: 48 New
                      0
                      Quote: falcon
                      Have you tried? Ineptly? In my opinion you are really vulnerable. As they say
                      not in the eyebrow, but in the eye! Well, do not be offended, not from evil :))

                      And this, no matter how you try, still looks helpless and childish. You see, you are trying to make comparisons that seem offensive to you. But I'm already an adult, you’ll excuse me.

                      Quote: falcon
                      Googled, well done. At least some benefit from our discussion. But I
                      claimed the same :))

                      No, I just gave you a quote from the encyclopedia. You are sure that modern history necessarily begins in 1918. Would you dare to read what I wrote earlier? Before my comment, you were sure that there is only one point of view. You are a "historian".


                      Quote: falcon
                      There was an irony about Uruguay :)) From now on I will put emoticons.

                      And again unsuccessfully. And so, stumbling over your logical mistakes, you continue to wander. And every time you step on the same rake that you set yourself.



                      Quote: falcon
                      Everything happens in war, even taking the Bar-Lev line. The only exception
                      confirms the rule!


                      What is wrong with both history and logic?

                      Quote: falcon
                      Well, this is a female hysteria. You have no humor, there is aggression, but no humor. :)) It is not interesting.


                      And the further you go, the more helpless you are in the arguments. You have a lot of aplomb, and little real knowledge. You are bogged down - and you are childishly trying to find some kind of insult, the most offensive. Do you have any problems with women if you are trying to focus on this? 8)
        2. Tourist Breakfast
          Tourist Breakfast 31 October 2013 12: 10 New
          +2
          Do you really consider the armies of Egypt, Syria, Jordan
          combat-ready, and if yes, then what is their combat effectiveness?


          Because the armies of these countries were fighting competently and in an organized manner (including the well-established interaction of various types of troops and logistics), and by no means like a "crowd of fallahs." This is especially true for the VSD. And the IDF won the victory at a very, very high price.
    2. Pimply
      Pimply 30 October 2013 17: 57 New
      0
      Quote: falcon
      And AOI has never, I repeat, never encountered
      with a universally recognized strong army. (I hope no one will argue that the combat readiness of the armies
      of the above Arab states was extremely low in 1973.)

      Prove low combat efficiency. I bet too.
    3. atalef
      atalef 30 October 2013 20: 52 New
      +3
      Quote: falcon
      The article is controversial. But I would like to say this. Somehow, here, on the resource, rooted
      the opinion that AOI is a powerful, elite army. And where does this opinion come from? The strength of the army of any state
      determined by the strength of the armies of his opponents. And AOI has never, I repeat, never encountered

      And what army did the Russian army face? Let's not take the Second World War, otherwise we will reach the Russian-Japanese war or the Kulikovo battle.
      In normal, it seems like only Georgia, and how?
      In general, did the Soviet / Russian army fight with the numerically superior enemy? When? Where?
      Therefore do not carry nonsense


      Quote: falcon
      Number of countries
      opponents of Israel, in this case, it does not matter, because it only made command and control difficult,

      Well it is clear . only Amia Hitler can be considered with the Allies and claim that all of Europe worked for him

      Quote: falcon
      And the lack of strategic depth, in
      In this case, it has not only minuses, but also pluses (the possibility of quick maneuver by groupings
      forces and means, the shortest term for the complete mobilization of the army, etc.)

      Interesting . if the USSR had the same strategic depth as Israel, how many hours would the war end?
      1. falcon
        falcon 30 October 2013 23: 01 New
        0
        Quote: atalef

        And what army did the Russian army face? Let's not take the Second World War, otherwise we will reach the Russian-Japanese war or the Kulikovo battle.
        In normal, it seems like only Georgia, and how?
        In general, did the Soviet / Russian army fight with the numerically superior enemy? When? Where?

        Well, why not take the Second World War? This is our story! You consider normal
        to consider the WHOLE period of the existence of his country, but I am refused this
        Those! The parties to the dispute must be on an equal footing, and you, to this, I look,
        not used to it! So, Russians for centuries beat the Turks, at times
        outnumbering.
        Quote: atalef
        only Amia Hitler can be considered with the Allies and claim that all of Europe worked for him

        The question is not understood, with the allies and counted! Do you have something against it?
        Quote: atalef

        Interesting . if the USSR had the same strategic depth as Israel, how many hours would the war end?

        Perhaps, as with Holland. But that’s what it is about. If your opponent
        there was not a native army, but, for example, a German one, of the 1941 model, the war would have continued on force for a day or two. And the outcome is obvious.
        1. atalef
          atalef 30 October 2013 23: 24 New
          0
          If your adversary
          there was not a native army, but, for example, a German one, of the 1941 model, the war would have continued on force for a day or two. And the outcome is obvious.

          all your opuses and nonsense can be answered just and we will end here, if only 08.08.08 would be with China, who and where was now?
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 30 October 2013 23: 29 New
            +2
            Quote: atalef
            if only 08.08.08 it would be with China, who and where was now?

            On the territory of China and Russia, many large craters would appear. And everyone would remain with their own.
            1. atalef
              atalef 31 October 2013 07: 47 New
              0
              Quote: Spade
              Quote: atalef
              if only 08.08.08 it would be with China, who and where was now?

              On the territory of China and Russia, many large craters would appear. And everyone would remain with their own.

              I don’t want to offend you, but why then artillery! There are a lot of funnels, but all with their own?
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 31 October 2013 08: 35 New
                0
                Artillery would start this show first. Finished Strategic Rocket Forces
                1. atalef
                  atalef 31 October 2013 21: 48 New
                  0
                  Quote: Spade
                  Artillery would start this show first. Finished Strategic Rocket Forces

                  And if without? It was about Israel (which, according to foreign sources, has nuclear weapons) All the same, if only a conventional weapon, then who? I understand the nonsense I write (it’s just not to feed the trolls) In general, the Chinese do not need weapons. they will all surrender and in a month will gobble up all of Russia
          2. Day 11
            Day 11 30 October 2013 23: 31 New
            0
            If you had anything to do with military affairs and would have known military and political alignment --- I think you would not have asked such a question!
            1. Day 11
              Day 11 30 October 2013 23: 59 New
              -3
              It is clear that there is some GAME to explain something.
              1. atalef
                atalef 31 October 2013 21: 50 New
                0
                Quote: Den 11
                It is clear that there is some GAME to explain something.

                What is GOYMA? wassat
            2. atalef
              atalef 31 October 2013 21: 53 New
              0
              Quote: Den 11
              If you had anything to do with military affairs and would have known military and political alignment --- I think you would not have asked such a question!

              Well, here through one, or did not serve or slanted. You will count the military on the fingers of one hand, a couple dozen of those serving.
              By the way, unlike you. the Israelis (located on the site) served all 100%.
  • xomaNN
    xomaNN 30 October 2013 16: 32 New
    +8
    What we need to borrow from the Israelis is the desire to save their fighters. This is understandable, they, in comparison with the Arabs, have too few of them. And in practice, they have shown that it is precisely a well-trained military specialist who uses ten well-mastered equipment worth ten opponents.
  • Watchman
    Watchman 30 October 2013 17: 45 New
    0
    If the Arabs were better trained, everything would be different.
    1. catapractic
      catapractic 30 October 2013 18: 07 New
      0
      trained monkey is just a monkey
    2. atalef
      atalef 30 October 2013 20: 55 New
      +5
      Quote: Watchman
      If the Arabs were better trained, everything would be different.

      Well, it’s probably worth remembering who taught them, in which academies, and which they successfully and even graduated with honors, but in general. if my grandmother .... well, everyone knows the continuation.
    3. Dezzed
      Dezzed 2 November 2013 22: 37 New
      0
      Quote: Watchman
      If the Arabs were better trained, everything would be different.


      if only the Japanese had more aircraft carriers and oil and metals and manganese, the whole world would learn Japanese.
      if...
      how to understand your argument?
  • mr_Doom
    mr_Doom 30 October 2013 20: 46 New
    +1
    Quote: falcon
    The article is controversial. But I would like to say this. Somehow, here, on the resource, rooted
    the opinion that AOI is a powerful, elite army. And where does this opinion come from? The strength of the army of any state
    determined by the strength of the armies of his opponents. And AOI has never, I repeat, never encountered
    with a universally recognized strong army. (I hope no one will argue that the combat readiness of the armies
    of the above Arab states was extremely low in 1973.) The number of countries
    opponents of Israel, in this case, it does not matter, because it only made command and control difficult,
    due to the lack of a single focal point. And the lack of strategic depth, in
    In this case, it has not only minuses, but also pluses (the possibility of quick maneuver by groupings
    forces and means, the shortest term for the complete mobilization of the army, etc.)

    By your logic, there are no strong armies, but we must understand that they will appear in the Third World War, alas, not for long.
  • Katsin1
    Katsin1 30 October 2013 21: 16 New
    +6
    "Song of the Burnt Tankman" \ Grigory Luxemburg To friends from my company,
    killed in the Doomsday War

    Neither wind nor bird's whistle ...
    Oh Lord, Shema, Israel!
    Tankers burn alive
    For my nightingale april.
    -------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------



    I know that the tank is not Auschwitz
    And the tank is not ashamed to burn,
    But the hare’s heart froze
    Sensing a heroic death.

    The hatches tightly jammed.
    We can no longer see heaven.
    Oh my God! Where are your hands?
    I need pity desperately!

    I remember the back of Kinneret,
    And on the left is Hermona's ridge
    And it’s a pity that no one will believe
    That I was - and here I am ...

    But there was me and the ashes witness.
    Take me in the palm of your hand -
    In the moonlight and sunlight
    I will whisper to you: “Fire”

    The fire of unprecedented freedom
    Tankists burned at the borders.
    A tanks burnt vaults
    More honorable than the royal tombs!
  • ivanovbg
    ivanovbg 30 October 2013 22: 58 New
    +3
    Israel, which has a third, if not half of the population — non-Jews, held out against a coalition of states with half a billion Arabs. And even though the war began on the initiative, and, therefore, according to the preliminary plans of the Arabs. Maybe the Arabs really hesitated something with the evolution of our ancestors?

    The fact that time works for Israel is hard to believe. Economics, of course, is important, but demography is even more coherent.
    1. atalef
      atalef 31 October 2013 21: 55 New
      +1
      Quote: ivanovbg
      The fact that time works for Israel is hard to believe. Economics, of course, is important, but demography is even more coherent.

      When you are 6 million and around 500, demographics no longer play a role.
  • Day 11
    Day 11 31 October 2013 01: 20 New
    +1
    As far as I'm trying to figure this out --- there’s a batch of kneading! The same Iraqi Shiites are fighting for secular Syria (not to mention Hesbullah and Iran (so hated by you, the question is, right?). And the Kurds? NEVER for Bashar, but they don’t want this canoe either! And YOU, pour it into this fire still --- get yourself you know what ...!
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 31 October 2013 02: 24 New
      0
      Quote: Den 11
      As far as I'm trying to figure this out --- there’s a batch of kneading! The same Iraqi Shiites are fighting for secular Syria (not to mention Hesbullah and Iran (so hated by you, the question is, right?). And the Kurds? NEVER for Bashar, but they don’t want this canoe either! And YOU, pour it into this fire still --- get yourself you know what ...!


      They fight for the Alawites. Which are the backbone of the Assad regime and are close to them by faith. And the Kurds in general do not let anyone go into their own areas.
      1. Day 11
        Day 11 31 October 2013 02: 33 New
        0
        Come on, Evgeny (I'm sorry for YOU), they ALWAYS get help from air support! Ammunition, wounded-Bashar took it all
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 31 October 2013 04: 34 New
          0
          Quote: Den 11
          Come on, Evgeny (I'm sorry for YOU), they ALWAYS get help from air support! Ammunition, wounded-Bashar took it all

          Den, at the moment - an incoherent set of phrases, formulate a thought.
      2. Day 11
        Day 11 31 October 2013 02: 42 New
        0
        Zhenya, please tell me, does SAA consist of only Alavites? How many of them are there in percentage terms (at least on a national scale)?
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 31 October 2013 04: 41 New
          0
          Quote: Den 11
          Zhenya, please tell me, does SAA consist of only Alavites? How many of them are there in percentage terms (at least on a national scale)?

          Mostly from the Alawites, Shiites and Chrysitans. Alavites in Syria 5 million of 22, another 2 million - Shiites. Kurds - 2 million. 2 million Christians. About a million Druze. The rest are mainly Sunnis, who make up the backbone of resistance.
        2. atalef
          atalef 31 October 2013 21: 56 New
          0
          Quote: Den 11
          Zhenya, please tell me, does SAA consist of only Alavites? How many of them are there in percentage terms (at least on a national scale)?

          Generally --- 0. There are no Alawites, Shiites, Druze, or Christians in the SSA. Only Sunnis.
  • Katsin1
    Katsin1 31 October 2013 01: 25 New
    +3
    Shone like a mirror shard
    Kinneret is behind us.
    What a Pharisee and astrologer
    Called this horror a war?

    And the ashes of the burnt infantry
    Buries autumn fog ...
    Golan Evil Heights -
    Only stones, war and weeds.

    So Goliath walked toward David.
    To the meter painted our way.
    Only Babi Yar resentment
    He does not dare to look into the eyes.

    Peace be upon you, soldiers.
    Not in temples, but in tanks we burn.
    And we don’t require a fee anymore -
    It would be Jerusalem.

    And the ashes of the burnt infantry
    Buries autumn fog ...
    Golan Evil Heights -
    Only stones, war and weeds.
    1. Revolver
      Revolver 31 October 2013 02: 56 New
      +1
      Quote: Katsin1
      Peace be upon you, soldiers.
      hi soldier
  • tforik
    tforik 31 October 2013 11: 37 New
    +1
    Who lives in Israel, tell us how you cover the situation in Syria? You are closer, I think you own more truthful data. Has the army taken the unconditional initiative?
    1. atalef
      atalef 31 October 2013 22: 02 New
      +1
      Quote: tforik
      Who lives in Israel, tell us how you cover the situation in Syria? You are closer, I think you own more truthful data. Has the army taken the unconditional initiative?

      Generally not a lot, already tired of everything when something out of the ordinary. They will also tell, and so - a routine. Basically - this week died so much. they brought so much to the Israeli hospital.
      Assad’s army didn’t take any initiative and even the help of almost the entire Hezbollah, does not give any result so far, therefore, no more than yesterday Nasrallah said

      On October 28, Hassan Nasrallah delivered another lengthy speech, much of which was devoted to glorifying the "successes" of the Syrian army and Hezbollah, Nasrallah said. that "the conflict in Syria has no military solution."

      Nasrallah said: "The whole world does not believe that there can be a military solution to the Syrian conflict. The only possible solution is political."

      Such a statement is seen as a recognition of the danger that Syrian rebel forces pose to Lebanon - especially if Assad’s regime falls.

      Nasrallah in his speech accused the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia of fomenting the Syrian war, and that it placed at the disposal of the rebels $ 30 billion.

      Nasrallah also promised that in the near future we should expect "the largest military operation against the rebels", the success of which he has no doubts.

      So far, Hezbollah has been attacked by rebels. Al-Arabia TV reported that dozens of Lebanese militants were killed and injured in an attack against Hezbollah's office in the Damascus suburbs.
      1. tforik
        tforik 1 November 2013 18: 48 New
        0
        Politically? Only if Assad leaves? I see no other options. Then there will be a scenario of Libya.
        ps. He sincerely believed that in Libya after the fall of the Gaddafi regime there will be many years of internal clan war. But no, everything has become relatively calm.
  • faraon
    faraon 31 October 2013 18: 49 New
    +1
    Actually, the injured girl or something like that flickers in the press like that to the Safed hospital, or something like that, or a shell was fired from the Syrian side towards Israel at the launch site and a return shot was fired.
    By and large, there is ongoing monitoring of the situation in Syria, but this is an internal conflict in Syria, in which they tried and are trying to pull Israel.
    1. tforik
      tforik 1 November 2013 18: 36 New
      0
      1) Well, by and large, Israel is benefiting from an internal war in Syria: actively-dangerous Syrians are killing each other, WMD is being destroyed by the UN, and hezbollah has already pulled back there ...
      2) How amazing, Iraq, Syria, Unrest in Egypt - all who fought against Israel in recent years have received so many problems. Is it a coincidence?)