Military Review

Leonid Ivashov: “There are a lot of honest people in NATO, but they don’t make decisions”

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Leonid Ivashov: “There are a lot of honest people in NATO, but they don’t make decisions”For the first time, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu took part in a meeting of the Russia-NATO Council, where he explained to American colleagues why Russia needs a strong army. In some areas, we can work with the North Atlantic alliance together, but the full-fledged partnership is still far away, President of the Academy of Geopolitical Problems Leonid Ivashov told our Company.


“Sergei Kuzhugetovich in a soldier’s way, I would even say, in a simple language like that, he brought Russia’s concern over NATO’s activities. And he dwelt on two problems in detail. This is the first - European missile defense system, which the United States is promoting. And the second is the admission of new members to NATO countries, including those from the post-Soviet states.

What is being proposed is a rigidly stated, clear position. Perhaps I would have toughened this position: here we have our borders, which we will protect and defend. Here is our position, from which we will not depart. And when you clearly state that this is a firm position, it is not subject to change - then they adapt to our position.

- What are common themes, common directions in which we can cooperate? Maybe common threats?

- Today, in general, reorientation from a purely military sphere to the sphere of protection is needed. They are already talking about meteorites aimed at our planet. There are threats associated with climate change. And questions about climate arms need to set today. And about weapons of protection against climate change. The developments are being conducted, especially by the USA - but they are again being conducted in the direction of how to use the climate as a weapon.

There are problems today of delineating Arctic resources and so on. There are many problems today, those that can be solved by the army. Here they need to focus. The same terrorism, it was designated after 11 of September 2001 of the year as the main direction of cooperation between NATO and Russia. But not a single terrorist, so we together did not catch.

There is a problem of Afghanistan, drugs coming from this region. Also on NATO monitors, these threats are exposed as one of the main ones. But there is no real cooperation. On NATO, you just need to press, push. After all, they see how duality behave. On the one hand, they say that we do not drive like anyone into NATO, but our doors are open to all comers - well, they emphasize democratic states. And while we are activating integration ties in the post-Soviet space, including within the framework of the OKDB, the Customs Union, they are not only beginning to scold us, but to take some action to slow down this integration.

- CSTO expressed a desire to cooperate with NATO. At the same time, NATO refused the offer. But she said that she would cooperate in the areas of security with each participating country separately. How can this position be explained?

- This position is explained as anti-Russian. They did not help the Soviet Union to collapse, they invested both money and certain efforts of the Western countries so that the process of land gathering, the process of integration of the post-Soviet countries would be launched here again! We remember the statements of both Brzezinski and Kissinger: I prefer, Kissinger said, chaos and civil war in the post-Soviet tendency of his peoples to unite. And now, of course, they are trying to prevent. And of course, they meet any integration principle in this space with hostility. But not just unsubstantiated, they are conducting a geopolitical operation in order to break, embroil us and so on. This, of course, is one of the real functions, and not the declared functions of NATO.

- Does NATO have a chance to win over any of the CSTO members to its side?

- Now they were fighting for Armenia, trying to first sign an association agreement with the European Union. Then they are lured - they have the Council of the Euro-Atlantic partnership and so on. But the latest decision on joining the Customs Union in fact does not allow the signing of an agreement at the upcoming summit in Estonia. In fact, Armenia has chosen - well, God forbid, so that finally - its development route. She wants to develop together with Russia, together with other countries of the Commonwealth. Therefore - well, whom? Kyrgyzstan, I think, they should not be torn off. He is far away. Hardly. From the CSTO member countries - I doubt it. Now they are processing Ukraine. They want to tear Ukraine away. And then, of course, both the Customs Union and the military-political alliance of the CSTO type will be incomplete.

There are a lot of honest, kind people. I know myself. Including among generals of NATO, officers of NATO. But they do not make decisions. Decisions are made by politicians who are behind even the prime ministers, presidents, and so on. ”
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  1. AVV
    AVV 26 October 2013 23: 04
    33
    First, the European Union will try to overwhelm Ukraine with its goods, thereby ruining the real industry of the latter, they will lead aircraft industry, rocket engineering, engine building, metallurgy to decline, transfer the country to screwdriver assembly of Western products, thereby destroying the engineering and design schools that are independent, and then they will promote their homo-democratic values ​​and put all kinds of linkages of help with these values ​​!!! The goal is to tear Ukraine away from the Customs Union in any way! Then you can dictate your conditions last! But no one will pull anyone by the ears, but the Ukrainian people will have to disentangle, all and tragedy !!!
    1. Apollo
      Apollo 27 October 2013 07: 43
      14
      Good morning everybody hi

      I didn’t understand anything, the article appeared today Today, 06: 10, and your comment .........?!
      Quote: AVV
      AVV (1) Yesterday, 23: 04

      Probably a system problem.
      Now on the topic.
      quote-Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu first attended a meeting of the Russia-NATO Council, where explained American colleagues why does Russia need a strong army.

      Well, it’s necessary, since when did the Minister of Defense of the sovereign state of Russia go to explain? This is new.
      So I don’t remember that the US Secretary of Defense, arriving in Moscow, would explain why the United States needs a strong army, can anyone from the forum tell me or did I miss something during my life ?!
      As for NATO, you have to keep your ear with them, I am also "colleagues".
      1. ZU-23
        ZU-23 27 October 2013 08: 24
        +7
        it’s not explained, but brought to them as we look at it, it’s actually like Putin’s message to the American people, that’s Shoigu’s message made by NATO))), and we hope for their reason, but probably in vain)))
        1. Apollo
          Apollo 27 October 2013 08: 44
          +1
          Quote: ZU-23
          it is not explained, but brought to them


          Quote: Apollon
          where explained


          Valentin, if it’s not difficult for you to go through the article again, it is clearly written there, the word is not brought there. If the word you quoted would be present then my comment would be different.
          1. ZU-23
            ZU-23 27 October 2013 08: 51
            0
            so there is no article, but this is one we write two in the mind)))
      2. Corsair
        Corsair 27 October 2013 10: 57
        +3
        Quote: Apollon
        I didn’t understand anything, the article appeared today Today, 06: 10, and your comment .........?!

        "Along the way, the comment" leaked "(judging by the content) from another" thread " fellow
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. antiaircrafter
        antiaircrafter 27 October 2013 11: 36
        +1
        Quote: Apollon
        I didn’t understand anything, the article appeared today Today, 06: 10, and your comment .........?! Quote: AVV AVV (1) Yesterday, 23: 04 Probably a system problem.

        It's simple. If you follow the arrows "next news" under the article, then you get to articles that are not yet on the main page. Nobody sees them, but you can comment on them, and the time of publication probably corresponds to the time of appearance on the main page. Hence the time difference between the posting time and the commentary time.
      5. SHILO
        SHILO 27 October 2013 12: 23
        +3
        There are a lot of honest people in NATO, but they don’t make decisions - let the chesnays float in good coffins, and not those in bad coffins! fellow
        1. APES
          APES 28 October 2013 10: 45
          0
          Quote: SHILO
          There are many honest people in NATO, but they do not make decisions


          There are also many honest people in Russia, but they do not make decisions
      6. Very old
        Very old 27 October 2013 16: 04
        +3
        Grandfather Krylov immediately recalls: But Vaska listens, yes he does. Two questions especially highlighted by L. Ivashov in NATO have been heard more than once and there was no need to repeat them. There was an oral (I emphasize-ORAL) agreement in Gorbachev’s style about moving (or not moving?) To the East
        What kind of agreement is this, if the Americans "nag"
        As for missile defense, NATO will not give up the idea of ​​putting red flags on Russia, the machine is already running.
        The trip is not only useless, but ... You understand
      7. negeroi
        negeroi 27 October 2013 21: 58
        +1
        This is not new at all, but the usual behavior when losing in a war. We lost, didn’t you notice? You will laugh, but Putin only announced in 2007 that from that moment we would implement SOVEREIGN policy. Politics may have become a little sovereign, but you have to respect the big boys with respect and sometimes bending down. They sometimes drop in and explain to us being completely sovereign, how good it will be for them from their missile defense. Here and Shoigu vparivat that we are not scary, not from NAT want a strong army, and so, it’s purely like how people go to the parade. In general, politics, and sovereignty here, is only one of the elements, and not the most important one.
      8. GSH-18
        GSH-18 28 October 2013 00: 16
        0
        Quote from the article: "There are many honest, kind people. I know myself. Including among NATO generals, NATO officers. But they do not make decisions. Decisions are made by politicians who stand behind even prime ministers, presidents, and so on."
        Big money = big politics. This company got a bouncer (among which there are kind honest people lol ) called in the common people nata. So that the rest of the world does not interfere with stirring up dark affairs and stuffing pockets, wreaking hunger and poverty on devastation! am
    2. BARKAS
      BARKAS 27 October 2013 07: 46
      +4
      In addition to all of Europe, a cheap labor force of non-Arabian-African origin is very necessary; there is no state better than Ukraine for this purpose!
      1. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 27 October 2013 23: 45
        +3
        Quote: BARKAS
        In addition to all of Europe, a cheap labor force of non-Arabian-African origin is very necessary; there is no state better than Ukraine for this purpose!

        God be with you! They have their own unemployment 5-7%. Why should they pull lumpen from Ukraine to themselves? Another thing is to give them a screwdriver in their hands, put in components, and then fill in neighboring countries with screwdriver-Ukrainian goods, saving on assembly and logistics. This is a word.
        Essentially. The purpose of the Anglo-Saxons is to prevent the Russian Empire from being reborn.
        "A new world order with the hegemony of the United States is being created against Russia, at the expense of Russia and on the ruins of Russia," Z. Brzezinski said in his speech on the occasion of his being awarded an "honorary citizen of Lvov", 1999.
        Bill Clinton, as President of the United States, said at a meeting of the JCS in 1995:
        - the dismemberment of Russia into small states through inter-regional wars, such as those that were organized by us in Yugoslavia;
        - The final collapse of the military-industrial complex of Russia and the army;
        - the establishment of regimes in the republics that have broken away from Russia, which are necessary for us.
        Yes, we allowed Russia to be a power, but the empire will be only one country - the United States. "
        He only voiced the position of the members of the Bilderberg Club. The puppeteers know for sure that without Ukraine the new Union will not be able to reach its former heights. Hence the intrigue: the confrontation of the eastern and western parts of the country, the problem of Crimea, nationalism and Russophobia. And at the interstate level - the path to NATO through the EEC.
        About NATO and missile defense. The closer to our borders they move their air bases with carriers of tactical nuclear weapons, the less need to worry about improving and modernizing their strategic nuclear forces. The date for their renewal is inexorably approaching. Therefore, the States are fighting to reduce them to 700 (800) units so that they can be intercepted by the European missile defense system, or by shipborne ones - on the Aegis air defense missile system. Thus, to ensure for oneself an unpunished disarming first strike of the KR BD and WTO from the air platforms against the strategic nuclear forces, the control center and the air defense-missile defense system of Russia.
      2. GSH-18
        GSH-18 28 October 2013 00: 29
        0
        Quote: BARKAS
        In addition to all of Europe, a cheap labor force of non-Arabian-African origin is very necessary; there is no state better than Ukraine for this purpose!

        And why do they not like the Chinese, for example? belay There are much more than fat in Ukraine. And stamping all sorts of second-grade crap in huge quantities, they can be much more cheerful for food!
    3. a52333
      a52333 27 October 2013 09: 10
      +4
      That's what often happens, the first comment pulls the discussion aside.
      The EU will try to Ukraine
      and comments crawled towards Ukraine.
      1. alone
        alone 27 October 2013 11: 31
        -3
        “Sergey Kuzhugetovich in a soldier’s way, I would even say, in such a simple language conveyed Russia's concern about NATO activities.


        in order to do it like a soldier, you must first serve as a soldier for at least two years, so that you can feel on your back what this means.

        - CSTO expressed a desire to cooperate with NATO. At the same time, NATO refused the offer. But she said that she would cooperate in the areas of security with each participating country separately. How can this position be explained?

        - This position is explained as anti-Russian.


        and what is it anti-Russian? Does the CSTO adhere to the Russian position in everything? Where were the CSTO forces in August 2008? Ivashov does not want to admit to General that NATO understood that the CSTO as a structure was born dead when it was created? it was difficult to admit that the whole activity of the organization was the conduct of some sort of exercises of several platoons and companies, as well as the empty talk of Bordyuzha, who said one thing or another on the same issue.

        Comrade Ivashov, it's time for you to relax.
        1. hrych
          hrych 27 October 2013 13: 20
          +6
          The OBKB is not completely dead, it is clear that in 2008 the task was performed by the 58th army and special forces, and not a hodgepodge from the countries of the Collective Security Treaty Organization, and this (according to the declared nomenclature) was not a war, but an operation to force peace if it went beyond international agreements (bombing of objects deep in Georgia), but was part of the OSCE peacekeeping operation, as peacekeepers worked there and regular units shot at them. CSTO task to give legal ground bring down the might of the Russian army, for example, to Azerbaijan and Turkey in the event of an attack on Armenia, or, again, send Russian troops to Central Asia in case of any conflict, well, and not to offend Belarus. Hence Armenia’s entry into the CU, although I want to go to Europe, but the Armenians are very cunning and understand that if the war is not Europe’s helper, and Russia not only has strengthened its position in defense, it has also shown, above all, political will by spreading the Georgian army and dismembering the state with recognition of this (a hint of Maldavia (according to the PMR) and Azerbaijan (Karabakh)). Those. CSTO needs Russia for the right to strike, and not to collect tribal hordes.

          The CU is another matter, if the CSTO is like NATO, then the CU is like the EU. If NATO has been working for many years, then the EU has begun to crack apart. Hence, from the European experience of the CSTO, it is necessary to develop, and to abandon the TS.
          1. smile
            smile 27 October 2013 14: 33
            +1
            hrych
            Here you say: "hordes of different tribes", surround all the power on "... and Azerbaijan", "the Armenians are smart-ass", "send troops to Central Asia", "dismembered Georgia." The CSTO is needed "for the right to strike" (as I understand it, and for nothing else, right?) ... abandon the vehicle
            Do you really want that all our potential allies shied away from us like hell from incense?
            Look, everyone got away from you, they didn’t let anyone pass :))). Do you really want us to necessarily send troops somewhere and get bogged down in some kind of fight?
            Strange reasoning, honestly, are you not a saboteur of the American Secretary of State :))), which stated that the United States would not allow the revival of the USSR in any form? :))) Laughter with laughter, but such statements repel potential candidates for reunion more effectively than all American efforts combined .... do you really think so?
            By the way, I don’t know what you were talking about. that Ukraine made an attempt to integrate with Europe, but as I understand it, by declaring the vehicle’s worthlessness, you are probably very happy and approve of the actions of the Ukrainian authorities, right?
            1. hrych
              hrych 27 October 2013 14: 54
              +8
              Firstly, our site is not a tribune of the CIS, but a gathering of militarists, and this is normal. Do you think why the Central Asian leaders became the founders of the CSTO, really to fight for the interests of Russia in the Caucasus? No, only fear of China (the expansion of the Taliban, etc., thanks to NATO, is not on the agenda). Armenia in the CSTO keeps fear of revenge for Karabakh and not only. Belarus, as they say in the EU, is the last dictatorship in Europe (the allusion is clear). Only fear keeps all members of the CSTO. And, as they said in the east: "The White Tsar cuts backs, but the yellow heads!" NATO initially also held on to the fear of the helpless European countries of the USSR. As I understand it, you have to lisp with everyone, sing about the friendship of peoples, etc. But this Union destroyed, therefore, only economic and political interests and that's it. And only Fear and Horror. As satellites of the God of War Mars - Phobos (fear) and Deimos (horror).
              1. smile
                smile 27 October 2013 15: 26
                +1
                hrych
                They answered well. With the majority, I agree. Basically, with the fact that in the wing we are asked to only when their ass is fired from the other side. This is normal and there is nothing to expect otherwise ....
                But ... this does not mean that we must completely ignore their interests and treat our neighbors as a diverse tribe - in return you will get an even worse attitude. And you, as a militarist, cannot help but realize that it is rather unreasonable to arrange interethnic confusion in your own camp — at a time when all the forces need to be tense.
                And also, as a militarist, explain to me where you want to send troops in Central Asia? How will the local population react to this? ... especially if you treat it like an international crowd? At the same time, please tell me, what troops, how many, will we introduce there? You hopefully remember how many "millions" we have under arms?
                And in general, excuse me, militarists are usually extremely wary of ventures to "send" troops somewhere, if there is an opportunity to get involved in a partisan war. and with an arrogant attitude, it is inevitable ... and if they do not get excited, they will simply be set on fire from abroad.
                And lastly, I don’t lisp with anyone, not even with children, but to my friends. friends, neighbors and those. with whom I want to make friends, I am respectful - otherwise I will lose them, and, in addition, I will make enemies. Do you think it would be better for me to be in arrogant loneliness surrounded by enemies?
                1. hrych
                  hrych 27 October 2013 15: 46
                  +3
                  My distrust of the former fraternal ones is due to the fact that I remember how Russians fled and not only from Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan and even Kazakhstan (only (almost funny sounds) Russian-speaking Germans escaped almost a million), and the EBN government and the population of the Russian Federation they were left in trouble (as opposed to the German government) when they snooped around with migrants who drove and killed the Russians. There is no need to enter troops; enough bases and air defense points are enough. Well, Russia nonetheless owns systems allowing contactless wars and marching quarries to go down in history.
          2. Fin
            Fin 27 October 2013 14: 53
            +1
            Quote: hrych
            Those. Russia needs the CSTO for the right to strike, and not for collecting diverse tribes.

            I agree with you here. Just how to develop the CSTO? It is most reliable to put your own military in the territories of the Republic of Kazakhstan and the Republic of Belarus. base. Managing the combined forces of different countries is unrealistic, there will always be contradictions and there is no prompt decision-making. The Yankees act on the same principle, the base everywhere, at any time gave the order and do not need to coordinate.
            Quote: hrych
            and abandon the vehicle.

            Free movement of goods, new markets - the engine of the economy. Moreover, nothing brings together so much as commercial interest, the free movement of citizens. We do not have a common currency, so we don’t need to feed anyone yet.
            1. hrych
              hrych 27 October 2013 15: 03
              +3
              Let's just say that the TS is only profitable (very rude) for transporting, let's say, goods from the Republic of Kazakhstan to the border of the Republic of Belarus and vice versa, of course, only the Russian Federation loses duties. In the face of economic losses, and it is the Russian Federation for the sake of the ephemeral new USSR and without political obligations, as for example in the EU. The main problem of the TS is the open Central Asian border and a visa-free regime with them, and from here you yourself know what problems.

              According to the CSTO, the first is the control of the sky, i.e. Air defense and their common command. The bases, for quick response are unambiguous, well, coordination with local armies, and the rest is nuances. But it can still be more important than the army - the message to the evil neighbors that this place is marked.
              1. Fin
                Fin 27 October 2013 15: 14
                +3
                Quote: hrych
                The main problem of the TS is the open Central Asian border and with them a visa-free regime, and from here you yourself know what problems.

                In TS Avg. There is no Asia, but there are still millions of them. The main problem, in my opinion, is the corruption of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the FMS. All the same, we will not be able to completely isolate ourselves from them. We need the organization of their strict accounting and control.
                1. hrych
                  hrych 27 October 2013 15: 29
                  +3
                  Now that the degree of the indigenous people has reached a boiling point and the authorities are forced to react (the election of the mayor of the capital has shown that one cannot stay in power without this card), the first measure should be border control and the ban on the Dushanbe-Moscow train, visas are always a good thing. Everyone knows what to do, but the Eurasian GDP mumbled that it was necessary to fight corruption inside, etc. run, and then clean. We need to learn from the mistakes of the EU, when Romanians and Bulgarian gypsies poured into Paris, which was already soiled, so they no longer hesitate to start throwing them away. And we? In general, we are waiting for a new Manezhka and Biryulyovo, the first time we went to the square, the second time we spread the base, apparently for the third time they will break into the Kremlin.
          3. alone
            alone 27 October 2013 18: 29
            0
            Quote: hrych
            The task of the CSTO is to give legal ground to bring down the full power of the Russian army, for example, on Azerbaijan and Turkey in the event of an attack on Armenia,


            Do you think these countries will go to war in Armenia? and here is how the CSTO will act in the case of Karabakh, if this territory is outside the scope of the CSTO’s influence and in general the organization doesn’t belong. And besides, all member countries recognize the territorial integrity of Azerbaijan. Besides the occupying country of Armenia

            . Those. Russia needs the CSTO for the right to strike, and not for collecting diverse tribes.


            The CSTO was created to show NATO that we also have a similar organization. Of course, I’m crazy, but if you hypothetically imagine the armed confrontation between Russia and NATO, I can’t imagine that Russia needs a platoon to stand up to NATO from Tajikistan or a company from Armenia.))
            1. hrych
              hrych 27 October 2013 18: 55
              +2
              It’s not even Karabakh, but rather Armenia, like a bone in the throat of the ideologists of Pan-Turkism, it physically blocks Turkey’s access to the Caspian Sea. And the point is not that the Russian Federation will strike at Azerbaijan, but that this does not happen at all. Here Saakashvili, in a rude form, but in principle correctly, said about the system of checks and balances to govern the Transcaucasia. And I agree with him, do not be hypocritical that Russia is not accidentally selling weapons to Azerbaijan, and Armenia is fleeing to the Customs Union, in our place you would have done the same. The CSTO is definitely not opposed to NATO. In general, Russia and NATO are now allies in all respects, including the transit and sale of helicopters. In Afghanistan, VVP itself said that NATO is doing the job for us. The CSTO, unlike NATO, is not a global, but a regional organization and in the Caucasus has a clear anti-Turkish orientation, and in Wed. Asia is a shield from China and nothing more. The only contact in Belarus is with NATO, but it is not like in the Cold War. All this matters only when a big war would begin in the Near East and when international law would collapse, which would force the Turkish and Chinese armies to move.
              1. alone
                alone 27 October 2013 19: 02
                +2
                access to the Caspian has already been secured. They will soon hand over the Baku-Tbilisi-Kars railway)).
                those days have already passed, in order to secure a way out for yourself, you must necessarily fight and capture. Now everything is decided by economic components, where all interested parties find a win-win. We are win-win, and not just what interests me. For example, we have an example with Russia such cooperation. when they started pushing Nabucco, Azerbaijan and Russia decided how to do it all so as not to interfere with each other selling gas in Europe. the result of Nabucco was bent. everyone is happy. and we and you))
                1. hrych
                  hrych 27 October 2013 19: 22
                  +2
                  Could you squeeze out the elections in Georgia today and it depends on where the policy of this state will be directed, i.e. communication between Azerbaijan and Turkey depends on a third country, and even if the question arises about the movement of troops all the more. You argue, as a modern, cultured person, that everything can be solved economically, etc., but there are relic characters in the Congress like McCain (who almost became president) and these people have tremendous power and a little more than sixty years have passed after the terrible of the World War and now NATO is not smashing the smallest countries, Georgia itself has been divided, and you understand that the Karabakh problem can be solved only by force. Ahead of a bunch of small and great wars, otherwise in this difficult period due to the economic crisis, countries (not the richest) would not spend huge money on the army.
                  1. alone
                    alone 27 October 2013 20: 19
                    0
                    So the fact is that when carrying out such projects (where big finances are invested), the parties take into account all the circumstances of force majeure. Whoever the president of Georgia is and what path they choose, the road will act. It’s beneficial for us. How do we we know economically georgia is not so strong, and any budget revenues are approved without talking))

                    Do you understand that it is possible to solve the Karabakh problem only by force


                    I personally think that it’s necessary to solve it by force. But nobody will do it spontaneously. This will only be done when no one interferes with this. We won’t do it, Saakashvili did. It’s a big mistake to rely on someone unilaterally in this matter.
  2. makarov
    makarov 27 October 2013 07: 00
    +5
    ".. Now they are processing Ukraine. They want to tear away Ukraine. And then, of course, both the Customs Union and the military-political union like the CSTO will be defective ..."
    According to the Constitution, Ukraine is a non-aligned country, and as a guarantee of the parties in the 90s, it destroyed its nuclear weapons. Therefore, despite the desires of certain corrupt politicians, in my opinion, it really does not have a chance to join NATO because of internal contradictions.
    Let it be so!!!
    1. Patton5
      Patton5 27 October 2013 16: 05
      0
      On Constitution, Ukraine is a non-aligned country
      laughing
    2. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 28 October 2013 00: 20
      +3
      Quote: makarov
      as a guarantee of the parties in 90's destroyed its nuclear weapons.

      Ack, sir! Ukraine has never had its own nuclear weapons. On its territory were placed products of 12 GUMOs, which belonged to the Union. But, since only Russia took on the debts and mn obligations of the Union, (no one else needed debts, everyone wanted freedom and independence!), Then it was she who received the right to possession and responsibility for the safety and non-proliferation of this nuclear weapons. That is why all the products were "returned" to the places of their storage and onto the carriers of the RF Armed Forces. Mr. restrictions on the nonproliferation of nuclear weapons were thus fulfilled.
  3. SV
    SV 27 October 2013 07: 51
    +3
    looking at the hysteria in the media about Russia, in the west, and western slime dishes in the east, there is a feeling of preparing the ground for creating a situation close to Iranian. in many ways, to achieve this goal, the enemy urgently needs isolation of Russia (at least partially), while the CSTO collapse should become an intermediate indicator of achieving goals. the situation in Ukraine is largely related to this (we don’t know what they promised there)
    1. 11111mail.ru
      11111mail.ru 27 October 2013 19: 57
      +2
      It seems Disraeli in the 19th century gave the idea "how hard life is when no one is at war with Russia." 20s of the last century: a cordon sanitaire against Bolshevism. Russia, as always, is in political isolation, only the channels for the drain of Russian capital over the hill are open to the maximum.
  4. Edward72
    Edward72 27 October 2013 07: 52
    +3
    It will end badly for the Ukrainian people, but the politicians of Kiev will ride like cheese in oil because most likely they received their kickbacks.
  5. Koronik
    Koronik 27 October 2013 08: 01
    +1
    "Now they are working on Ukraine. They want to tear off Ukraine. And then, of course, both the Customs Union and the military-political union like the CSTO will be defective."
    Tell me, why does he need an inferior union? All the more defensive if everything is connected with Ukraine “because of internal contradictions.” Yes, it (Ukraine) has long been torn off, is a sovereign state. Even the release of Russian ships from Sevastopol is coordinated with the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine, which may prohibit this exit. What kind of Union are we talking about?

    "There are many honest, kind people there." Gentlemen this is NATO, they have been given a task and they will try to fulfill it
  6. kaktus
    kaktus 27 October 2013 08: 13
    10
    "There are many honest, kind people there. I know myself. Including among NATO generals, NATO officers. But they do not make decisions. Decisions are made by politicians who stand behind even prime ministers, presidents, and so on."

    The parents of these "kind, honest people" prepared World War II, the "Unthinkable" plan, the Cold War, the collapse of the USSR, aggression in Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia ... and "kind" "people" continue the "family business" - examples in plain sight. negative
  7. Shaman 21101973
    Shaman 21101973 27 October 2013 08: 14
    +7
    "No matter how many wolves you feed, he still looks into the forest."
    The United States, as was our enemy, will remain the enemy.
    1. 11111mail.ru
      11111mail.ru 27 October 2013 20: 02
      +1
      Quote: Shaman 21101973
      The United States, as was our enemy, will remain the enemy.

      In addition to external ones, Russia is full of internal enemies, starting with the former Minister of Defense and his patrons, ending with the fifth column in the person of the second most ancient profession.
      1. Shaman 21101973
        Shaman 21101973 28 October 2013 19: 10
        0
        And I mean, these guys have long been recruited by the CIA.
    2. GSH-18
      GSH-18 28 October 2013 00: 40
      0
      Quote: Shaman 21101973
      The United States, as was our enemy, will remain the enemy

      More precisely, the ruling political elite, standing behind any of their presidents, is one and the same, not replaced, not killed, getting rich on someone else’s misfortune.
      1. Shaman 21101973
        Shaman 21101973 28 October 2013 19: 08
        0
        So, pay your attention that in the United States there are only two parties (Republicans and Democrats) Each party nominates its own candidate for the presidential election.
        And whoever becomes president, US foreign policy towards Russia does not change. So the elite in America is one.
  8. major071
    major071 27 October 2013 08: 24
    +9
    They almost torn off Ukraine. Without asking the people. stop
    1. alone
      alone 27 October 2013 11: 33
      +2
      Quote: major071
      They almost torn off Ukraine. Without asking the people.


      it seems that the people are not particularly opposed)) that I do not see much zeal for Ukrainians about the protests.
      1. smile
        smile 27 October 2013 14: 48
        0
        alone
        Hello. But didn’t you notice that any disgruntled people go out into the street with serious protests only when someone organizes and finances this business. As, for example, in Ukraine during the Orange Revolution.
        Now what happens? Orange, of course, is supported at times by such a development of events and all their propaganda apparatuses, leaving internal disassemblies for later (perhaps by command).
        Yanukovych’s apparatus abruptly changed the vector. People are unhappy, but who organizes them? All propaganda and other resources are in the hands of supporters of the current course ... and that’s about the price of popular discontent, which was not supported by the corresponding organization and financing. And we did not bother to build up a network of our NGOs there (maybe this is our principled position, I don’t know), therefore we can’t influence the situation in any way. So. that all popular discontent will disappear in vain and Ukrainians will not advertise this discontent in their media, so as not to set fire to the rest of those displeased.
      2. major071
        major071 27 October 2013 18: 38
        +4
        In the evening I watched the news about Ukraine. According to a survey of 36% for the EU, 40% for not joining the EU. I wonder in what areas the survey was conducted? negative
        1. alone
          alone 27 October 2013 19: 05
          0
          wassat The survey is conducted approximately in this way. On a certain issue, the interested party goes exactly where people’s mood is known in advance. And they get the result they need.
          the survey was probably conducted like this.
          1. Tyumen
            Tyumen 27 October 2013 23: 24
            0
            Yes, today you can order not only a survey, but also its results.
      3. Maverick78
        Maverick78 28 October 2013 05: 28
        0
        And how do you imagine this? For example, how did the people oppose during the rule of EBN? But in his board virtually all the key trump cards of Russia were brazenly surrendered to the Americans.
        A powerful propaganda campaign has been going on in Ukraine for 22 years in favor of the EU, the US and NATO and against Russia. You know where it comes from. A generation is growing up that, apart from the fact that they live better in developed Europe than in totalitarian and terrible Russia, knows nothing else. When I ask people the question: "You are saying that by joining the EU we will live better. How can we?" In response, they usually try to say that the legislation will get better, there will be less stealing, that we will be given loans and investments. And no one thinks about the fact that loans and investments need to be worked out with something. Also, no one understands that if they manage to divide Russia into several small puppet states, then the West will no longer need Ukraine, Poland and the Baltic countries. And then loans and investments will turn into the selection of land and the remaining enterprises.
        But this needs to be explained to people, and at the moment TOTAL superiority in the information war is on the west side.
    2. GSH-18
      GSH-18 28 October 2013 00: 48
      0
      Quote: major071
      they almost torn krajina. Without asking the people.

      Now ours will impose barrage sanctions on e-amigo amigo, launching a chain reaction in the direction of separation ... But Putin dumped them with gas at a preferential price, and didn’t give a feeble loan .. But in the meantime, I don’t bite! After all, world supply exceeded meager but greedy demand lol
  9. Stinger
    Stinger 27 October 2013 08: 29
    +9
    Since their missile defense is not directed against us (as they say), we must offer them to place its elements on our territory. Firstly, everything will be under control, and secondly, check the reaction of our "partners". It's interesting to see how they spin.
    1. GSH-18
      GSH-18 28 October 2013 00: 55
      0
      Quote: Stinger
      Since their missile defense is not directed against us (as they say), we must offer them to place its elements on our territory. Firstly, everything will be under control, and secondly, check the reaction of our "partners". It's interesting to see how they spin.

      They will gladly place their radars with us, leaving the missiles in Poland, having previously twisted a finger at the temple. And what kind of reaction do you expect ?? belay
  10. Budilnik
    Budilnik 27 October 2013 08: 52
    +5
    They will not cooperate in the fight against drug trafficking from Afghanistan. They stimulate him. US policy in a nutshell is: "... the worse Russia is, the better we are" Remember how Roosevelt said about the war of the Soviet Union against fascism: "... the more they kill each other, the better for us." They poured into the German economy in every possible way before the war, after the war they warmed up a lot of fascists they needed from their point of view. That didn’t prevent him from cleverly clinging to our victory. As fascism was the vanguard of imperialism, so now Zionism, represented by the United States, is the vanguard of imperialism. History repeats itself as a farce as they say. Unfortunately, there are no ideologists who would give a proper assessment and analysis of this phenomenon.
    1. pensioner
      pensioner 27 October 2013 09: 51
      +8
      Quote: Budilnik
      Remember how Roosevelt said about the war of the Soviet Union against fascism: "... the more they kill each other, the better for us."

      This is not Roosevelt said. This is Truman said.
  11. scientist
    scientist 27 October 2013 09: 21
    +3
    But they do not make decisions. Decisions are made by politicians who stand behind even prime ministers, presidents and so on. ”

    So not talking to those. We need to communicate with those who are behind and pulling the strings of puppet politicians. I am sure it is easier to agree with them, and if necessary, put pressure without undue caution.
    1. Thunderbolt
      Thunderbolt 27 October 2013 10: 30
      +3
      You will not agree with these, for their goal is WORLD LIVING !!
      After all, those who are behind the puppet politicians of the whole world are capitalism!
      1. scientist
        scientist 27 October 2013 11: 52
        +1
        You will not agree with these
        Maybe they are also immortal.
        1. Volkhov
          Volkhov 27 October 2013 13: 27
          +1
          They are gray ....
          1. GELEZNII_KAPUT
            GELEZNII_KAPUT 27 October 2013 13: 55
            +1
            is it that fly on plates?
            1. Just Vasilich
              Just Vasilich 27 October 2013 15: 22
              +1
              Iron_Kaput: which ones fly on plates?

              Well, yes, on plates, only on NATO. And there are those who cut into cast-iron pans, so those are ours. yes
              1. GELEZNII_KAPUT
                GELEZNII_KAPUT 27 October 2013 20: 59
                0
                Well, we can not, and "gray cardinals" ... tovarisch Volkhov did not elaborate, sir ... hi
            2. GSH-18
              GSH-18 28 October 2013 01: 06
              0
              Quote: GELEZNII_KAPUT
              is it that fly on plates?

              Not. These are which of them eat delicacies every day in cool restaurants.
    2. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 28 October 2013 00: 45
      +3
      "Yes, already!" - Ippolit Matveyevich said meaningfully, and puffed out his cheeks importantly. (from)
      Quote: scientist
      We need to communicate with those who are behind and pulling the strings of puppet politicians. I am sure it is easier to agree with them, and if necessary, put pressure without undue caution.

      The Rockefellers, Rothschilds, Maybachs, Dupons and others like them are waiting for the Russians to come to an agreement with them, and on occasion will deign to "exert pressure without unnecessary fear."
      Therefore, when writing, think. This is not an extra lesson for a forum member.
  12. Ivan_Ivanov
    Ivan_Ivanov 27 October 2013 09: 57
    -4
    Leonid Ivashov: “There are a lot of honest people in NATO, but they don’t make decisions”

    Boo ha ha laughing laughing
    It is interesting who is behind Ivashov that he is so diligently supported and promoted; 2-3 main pseudo-patriotic articles appear in the mainstream popular media every week?
    1. Just Vasilich
      Just Vasilich 27 October 2013 15: 31
      -1
      Ivan_Ivanov: I wonder who is behind Ivashov

      Ivashov is a member of the Izborsk club. Izborsk Club is funded by the Kremlin. The chain is short and extremely clear. General Ivashov was blown away in comparison with the 2011-12 years when he went to the presidential elections as an independent candidate. Now he is very addicted.
  13. kartalovkolya
    kartalovkolya 27 October 2013 10: 52
    +6
    Of course, there is no need to harbor any illusions with regard to NATO, as they were enemies of the USSR, and remain enemies of Russia. The only thing that strikes in the article is Ukraine. Well, did they really not learn from the past: at least the beginning of the last century, Western Ukraine is almost depopulated because, due to poverty, the majority of the working-age population left for Canada and the United States in search of happiness. And now there is a desire of the West to solve the problems of its demography at the expense of the Ukrainian people, and the Ukrainian labor force, in contrast to the African and Asian, is more qualified and civilized (at least there will be no rams in the streets to slaughter and build mosques)! It is a pity for Ukraine, which the current treacherous circles doom to a beggarly existence, nevertheless brothers, albeit unlucky! these "honest" generals!
  14. avt
    avt 27 October 2013 10: 53
    -3
    laughing No, I honestly didn’t want to write anything, but when I saw the headline and the author of this deep thought .... laughing Well, then I could only read this =========, “Sergei Kuzhugetovich, in a soldier's way, I would even say, in this simple language brought Russia's concern about NATO activities. And he dwelled on two problems in detail. This is the first - a European missile defense system that the United States is promoting. And the second is the admission of new members to NATO countries, including those from the post-Soviet states. "====== Eka got it up after angry denunciations. In general, I could have continued -“ I’m an old soldier and I don’t know the words love "... On the way, he decided to change his orientation, and maybe not just one.
  15. Ezhaak
    Ezhaak 27 October 2013 11: 07
    +3
    There are many honest people in NATO, but they do not make decisions

    If honest people make decisions, then why will politicians be needed? Who will need the money of the mattress country? And their missiles, when all honest people are able to do it themselves. All these calls for help are sucked out of the finger. For the benefit of only one country on whose territory the conduct of hostilities is not supposed!
  16. Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 27 October 2013 11: 15
    +2
    Quote: " And of course, they meet with hostility any integration principle in this space. "
    The nature of NATO has not changed. This is an aggressive military unit against Russia. These crooks begin to "cooperate" with Russia when a rooster bites into a sensitive place. An example of this is Afghanistan. NATO members are pulling more and more members into their web. And it's okay. But as soon as Russia creates a union of states for collective protection, they immediately start screaming about the "revival" of the USSR. Psychopaths.
  17. crambol
    crambol 27 October 2013 11: 42
    +3
    Today, a reorientation from a purely military sphere to the sphere of defense is generally needed. They are already talking about meteorites aimed at our planet.

    Dear Leonid Grigoryevich! I have a big fear that the next Minister of Defense will have an idea to orient the armed forces towards protection from mosquitoes or the solar wind. The armed forces should, it seems to me, should be preparing to repel the attacks of the real enemy, and let the elders from the academy of sciences deal with hypothetical threats. This is closer to them in spirit - no responsibility.
    1. avt
      avt 27 October 2013 13: 05
      0
      Quote: crambol
      Today, a reorientation from a purely military sphere to the sphere of defense is generally needed. They are already talking about meteorites aimed at our planet.

      I say - orientation changes, Shoigu licked and this.
      Quote: crambol
      and let the elders from the academy of sciences deal with hypothetical threats. This is closer to them in spirit - no responsibility.

      Well, in the elders, oracles and marks.
  18. falcon
    falcon 27 October 2013 12: 08
    +5
    Leonid Ivashov: "There are many honest people in NATO, but they do not make decisions."
    I would like to note that in Russia the vast majority are honest and decent people, but, to
    Unfortunately, they do not make decisions either. Apparently, this is the global practice.
    1. Tyumen
      Tyumen 27 October 2013 12: 31
      +2
      It turns out, the recognition that the decision is made by a crook? :-)
  19. pensioner
    pensioner 27 October 2013 12: 12
    +1
    Quote: crambol
    Let the elders from the Academy of Sciences deal with hypothetical threats. This is closer to them in spirit - no responsibility.

    They say at one time Khrushchev decided to raise the animal husbandry industry. We started with the silver fox. But they in the mass order began to die. What to do? Contacted the Academy. And there - everything is scientific. They created the Institute for the breeding of all who need it, opened experimental stations across the country, gave funding, and are waiting for the results. And then it turns out that in order for the silver fox to have a marketable skin, it is vital for them to consume at least 100g per day. Armenian (no less) cognac, almost on a bar of chocolate, fruits, and on holidays Georgian wine. In general, animal husbandry really made a giant leap forward in our country. To everyone’s pleasure ... fellow
  20. goldfinger
    goldfinger 27 October 2013 12: 23
    +7
    Neighbor Belarus. Zadolbali you, Mr. General! Always in power, and always everything is correct, even very explain.
    A bit about the author.
    In 1964 he graduated from the Tashkent Higher Combined Arms Command School, in 1974 - from the Military Academy named after M.V. Frunze. Since 1976 he served in the central apparatus of the Ministry of Defense of the USSR, was the head of the secretariat of the Ministers of Defense of the USSR, Marshals of the Soviet Union Dmitry Ustinov and Sergey Leonidovich Sokolov. Since 1987 - head of the affairs department of the USSR Ministry of Defense. In 1992-1996 - Secretary of the Council of Ministers of Defense of the CIS; Since August 1999 - Chief of Staff for the Coordination of Military Cooperation of the CIS Member States. In 1996-2001, he was the head of the main department of international military cooperation of the Ministry of Defense. He lives and works in Moscow. He heads the Academy of Geopolitical Problems, teaches at the Moscow State Institute of International Relations, speaks on television and in the press with comments on foreign and domestic policy issues.
    Has he ever been in the army? Did you go on guard? All blah blah blah. Well, I don’t have faith in him. Why in 1991 violated the oath of the USSR? Did not oppose the Yeltsinists, the grave diggers of the USSR? Now, however, smarter than everyone.
    1. hrych
      hrych 27 October 2013 13: 42
      +3
      So, he is an army analyst to the bone, and a real combat general, like Shamanov, says briefly and clearly: "Smirono! Set aside! I will not tolerate! Shoot !!!" Well, mate between words. Everyone does their own thing, someone pi..dit, and someone pi..dit.
    2. Fin
      Fin 27 October 2013 15: 05
      +4
      Quote: goldfinger
      In 1964 he graduated from the Tashkent Higher Combined Arms Command School, in 1974 - the Military

      Quote: goldfinger
      Has he ever been in the army? Did you go on guard? All blah blah blah.

      Find where he served from 64 to 74 and answer your question.
      1. old rocket man
        old rocket man 27 October 2013 18: 23
        +1
        Quote: Fin
        Find where he served from 64 to 74 and answer your question

        I think you will not find it, judging by a frenzied career (this is after the Tashkent school), he served either as an adjutant or as a "paravoz" for some "son" -master, because from graduation to the academy in six years they reach the ground forces or heroes of owls . union, or thieves
    3. Ivanovich47
      Ivanovich47 27 October 2013 17: 53
      +2
      Life is such that to whom in the troops to pull a strap and to whom to serve in the central office. I say this with confidence, because for over 30 years I have served in the army. The general was in his place. No one can dispute this. Such intellectuals would now be in the Ministry of Defense. But where to get them? Therefore, I strongly disagree with you.
  21. voliador
    voliador 27 October 2013 13: 34
    -2
    Yes, saloids are pulled closer to the geyrop. It is closer, and not to the EU itself. They just want to push them away from Russia, and accept them into the EU, I think no one has ever intended them - fuck ... they don’t need anyone there. The West needs to prevent close cooperation between the former republics of the USSR. The first step towards this is the geyropeization of Ukraine, which Yanukovych is turning over now.
    1. smile
      smile 27 October 2013 15: 03
      +5
      voliador
      Who are saloids? Russians enjoy eating bacon ... without exception ... personally, I have not met those who refuse it ... did you mean Russia?

      Or have Ukrainians taken away a woman from you and therefore you come up with unpleasant nicknames? Or do you think they will become better towards us if we communicate with them exclusively with the help of insulting nicknames?
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 27 October 2013 15: 12
        +3
        Quote: smile
        Russians are happy to eat fat ... without exception

        Greetings to Vladimir. Russian at the sound of Lard, do not stand like a terrier. laughing And the vest on the chest is not torn, they say it is the most correct with us. But I have met many Ukrainians like this. And people nicknames stick fast.
        1. smile
          smile 27 October 2013 15: 38
          +3
          Ingvar 72
          Hello.
          On the one hand, you are right — indeed, they don’t say that it’s the most correct with us ... but they do the stance! In any case, if the lard is successful, it is always off the table, for some reason disappears first :)))
          But this is not the point; why offend all Ukrainians? After all, all the Ukrainians who come up with offensive cliches to us, we blame Bandera and tear to pieces ... but ourselves, it turns out how we behave (or rather, some of us)? Like the same Bandera, just the opposite. I suppose you can't behave like that.
          1. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 27 October 2013 15: 53
            +1
            Quote: smile
            .but do the rack!

            Well, to be precise, then we are more likely that the Tatars are sinning. repeat
            Quote: smile
            But this is not the point; why offend all Ukrainians?

            I completely agree with this, but it is customary for us, and not only ours, to judge the People by its poster. This, of course, is not right, but we see, and we are talking about. And how do we provide the initial information, you yourself know.
      2. 11111mail.ru
        11111mail.ru 27 October 2013 20: 11
        +2
        Perhaps it is better to use the term "zakhidnyaki".
      3. Mikhail m
        Mikhail m 27 October 2013 21: 19
        0
        Orthodox, you may not be aware, but the Bible has a direct ban on the use of pork.
        Bible, Leviticus, Ch. 11:
        4 only do not eat these of those who chew the cud and have a split hoof: a camel, because it chews the cud, but it does not split the hoof, it is unclean for you;
        5 and the jerboa, because it chews the cud, but its hoof is not split, it is unclean to you,
        6 and the hare, because he chews the cud, but his hoof is not split, he is unclean to you;
        7 and pigs, because her hoofs are split and hoofed, the cut is deep, but she does not chew the cud, she is unclean to you;
        What Christians weakly fulfill biblical covenants?
        1. hrych
          hrych 27 October 2013 21: 37
          +1
          So firstly for Christians the holy book is the Gospel, i.e. New Testament, and Old, i.e. the obsolete covenant was canceled by them; for these Pharisee dogmas of Christ actually crucified. Even in this bloody little book, it is written that the chosen people of God robbed the Egyptians, laid (state cooperation) of their women in power, and even the conquest of Canaan, as Dr. Mengele is an angel, and most importantly it says that a member must be cut (this is at the end of the pipiska the truth of the old bloody testament).
          1. Tyumen
            Tyumen 27 October 2013 23: 34
            +1
            How deftly and briefly you parried it! I am impressed.
  22. andruha70
    andruha70 27 October 2013 13: 43
    +1
    problems ... positions ... topics ... all this rubbish ... it’s time to already understand that the West is the ENEMY ... the enemy is all Russian, Russian, post-Soviet ... and we must proceed from this.
    1. 11111mail.ru
      11111mail.ru 27 October 2013 20: 20
      +1
      R.Kipling - "West is West, East is East and they cannot come together." An Englishman said in the last century.
  23. 222222
    222222 27 October 2013 13: 51
    +3
    Leonid Ivashov: "There are many honest ones in NATO .."
    1. NATO is a relic of the post-war peace and cold war.
    2. With the collapse of the West and the 5th column under the vigilant control of the US State Department of the Soviet Union and the world socialist system, NATO as a military-political bloc should cease to exist, but ...
    3. The preservation of NATO with the leading role of the USA in it, its expansion to the east, changing the sphere of interests from Europe to Japan and from Norway to the Persian Gulf states, its members and the command of the wars in Yugoslavia. .. Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya .. testifies to its transformation from a defensive to an aggressively offensive bloc.
    4. The existence of NATO simultaneously with the EU and the absence of a unified Armed Forces in the EU, as well as the preservation of the US occupation forces on the territory of the EU countries since World War II, including tactical nuclear weapons, testifies to the dependence of the governments of the EU countries on their overseas "friends. "(as shown by Snow's leaks on the wiretapping by the US NSA of the leaders of 2 European states, including the Chancellor of the Federal Republic of Germany)
    5. With the adoption by NATO and the EU of the Energy Charter, NATO's role in the economic sphere has increased. "Politics is a concentrated expression of the economy. War is the continuation of politics by other violent means." With a decrease in the world's energy reserves, this role of NATO will become even more evident .. (?)
    6 The main events held with the countries of the bloc show that, as before, NATO sees the Russian Federation as the main geopolitical adversary with a loud and empty declaration of its steps ..:
    -Creation of its NATO missile defense system and the United States missile defense in the territory of NATO countries in Poland and Romania and the planning of the duty of ships of the US Navy with the AGC system in the Navy Rota in Spain and Constanta in Romania
    -conducting a series of exercises along the borders of Russia and especially in the north of the block. adjacent to the Arctic region. From November 2 to 7, NATO exercise in Poland and the Baltic countries "Steadfast Jazz 13" ......
    -development and implementation of the Eastern Partnership program for the withdrawal of the remaining former Soviet Union countries from the zone of influence of Russia (not yet accepted by NATO and the EU) .. the Partnership for Peace program, etc.
    1. Tyumen
      Tyumen 27 October 2013 23: 50
      +2
      Deutscher, write at least a short review, such an unbiased analysis is rarely found. !!!
  24. Black
    Black 27 October 2013 13: 58
    +7
    There are many honest, kind people. I know myself.
    Zadolbala this idea to find THERE friends, partners, honest and kind people. As in the discussion of the previous article - "Sometimes you can be a fool, you don't need to abuse it !!!"
  25. Migari
    Migari 27 October 2013 14: 59
    +3
    “There are a lot of honest people in NATO, but they don’t make decisions.” Then it’s not clear if there are a lot of them, that they, dumb people, or they were deprived of their right to vote for it.
  26. crambol
    crambol 27 October 2013 15: 31
    -2
    Quote: goldfinger
    Has he ever been in the army? Did you go on guard? All blah blah blah. Well, I don’t have faith in him. Why in 1991 violated the oath of the USSR? Did not oppose the Yeltsinists, the grave diggers of the USSR? Now, however, smarter than everyone.

    And in general, what did he do until October 1917?
    1. alone
      alone 27 October 2013 19: 06
      0
      Quote: crambol
      And in general, what did he do until October 1917?


      he was also not in the project then.
      1. Was mammoth
        Was mammoth 27 October 2013 19: 14
        0
        Quote: And in general, what did he do until October 1917? [/ Quote

        This question was once asked to my father. He was born in 1919. The father replied: "He twisted the tails of the bulls." It was in the 50s.
  27. akm8226
    akm8226 27 October 2013 16: 31
    +2
    My God ... Comrade Ivashov ... so many years behind me and naivety at the level of a first grader.
    I quote:
    "There are many honest, kind people there." (End of quote)
    Where are these people from in NATO, may I ask? When Yugosloavia was cut alive at least one "honest" from NATO stood up and said, they say, what are we bastards doing?
    Yeah ... all the "honest" NATO members were sitting with their tongues in their asses pulled in.
  28. old rocket man
    old rocket man 27 October 2013 18: 39
    +1
    I agree, a lot, even a lot. But they will honestly fulfill their duty to their countries. Regardless of their own opinion, if they are truly honest officers.
    "BEFORE EAST BEFORE" as the Germans say. hi
  29. Sour
    Sour 27 October 2013 20: 01
    +1
    Ivashov again surprises with his speeches. What does honesty have to do with it? She plays in politics, if not the last role, then certainly the penultimate one. They have their own interests, we have our own. "There are many honest people in NATO" ... in the Wehrmacht in 1941 there were probably a lot of them too, but what did that change for us?
  30. yurii p
    yurii p 27 October 2013 21: 03
    -1
    "" There are many honest people in NATO, but they do not make decisions "" ..... just like in our country, there are many honest people, but they are not in power, the conclusion is power - decency and honesty are incompatible things.
  31. Grigorich 1962
    Grigorich 1962 28 October 2013 11: 21
    0
    yes wolves they are wolves ..... these NATO members .... in sheep's clothing
  32. Vladimir-35136
    Vladimir-35136 29 October 2013 10: 18
    0
    Here Russia also needs to work with NATO ... "so that they live on the same salary," and not graze in the surrounding "beds"