Military Review

Russia as a raw materials appendage of China

132
In the late nineties, various gloomy people wrote: Russia is about to turn into a raw materials appendage of the West. It did not come true. After a dozen years, the economic crisis struck, and Western industry finally relocated to the Asia-Pacific region. The oil, which has risen in price substantially over the past years, is currently being bought up by the Middle Kingdom from Russia in large quantities from Russia. The recent meeting between Prime Minister Medvedev and Premier of the State Council of the People's Republic of China Li Keqiang reinforced the new eastern vector of the hydrocarbon development of the Russian economy. As for Beijing, which fell to the Russian pipe, he "would like not to stop." That was exactly what Comrade Lee said.




October 22 Russian Premier D. Medvedev held talks with Xi Jinping, and then with Premier Li Keqiang. The basis of the negotiations was, of course, raw materials. No matter how much Russia wants to sell something other than hydrocarbons or other natural resources, these proposals of the Middle Kingdom are of little interest. The main outcome of the negotiations: the parties agreed on the increase in oil supplies from the Russian Federation to the PRC. Over the 10 years, they will grow by 100 million tons. This is interesting to China.

As noted by "InoTV", at a meeting with journalists Li Keqiang, raising the question of the intended goal of increasing the trade turnover of Russia and China by 2015 to 100 billion dollars, stressed that “I would like not to dwell on 100 billion dollars, and to increase to 200 billion dollars, and 300 billion dollars. "

Details about the contracts and intentions reported Dmitry Muravyov ("Sight"), referring to ITAR-TASS.

Following the meeting, D. Medvedev and Li Keqiang signed the 21 document. Rosneft and CNPC signed an agreement on the basic principles of the schedule for the launch of the Tianjin oil refinery and the supply of oil for processing. The company must earn in 2020 year. The project is being implemented by a Russian-Chinese joint venture (Rosneft has 51%, and CNPC has 49%).

Rosneft and Sinopec signed a memorandum on an export contract on a prepaid basis. It provides for the supply of oil in the amount of up to 100 million tons over the 10 years, starting with the 2014 year.

NOVATEK signed an agreement with PetroChina to supply at least three million tons of LNG per year from the Yamal LNG plant.

As for gas supplies from Gazprom, it is still there. The price was never agreed. So far, the parties have agreed only on the “formula”. Alexander Novak, the Minister of Energy of Russia, said: Gazprom and CNPC agreed on a price formula, technical conditions of supply are under discussion. These market prices will be accurate, and linked to the oil basket. ” In his opinion, deliveries may begin in 2018-2020.

The article by D. Muravyov provides the opinion of foreign analysts. Consulting company "Wood Mackenzie" indicates that trade in energy between the PRC and the Russian Federation to 2025 year will increase fourfold. Experts report that energy consumption in Europe is falling, while in China it is growing. In 2005, China imported 2,5 million barrels of oil per day, and in 2020, it is projected to import 9,2 million barrels per day.

What is fraught with the eastern vector of raw materials strategy for Russia, Alexander Gabuev and Kirill Melnikov (Kommersant). The oil contracts, the authors note, look “confident”, but only “the price of the question, which concessions and discounts Moscow will have to make in exchange for cash flow from Beijing”, the parties do not name. The correspondents also recall the negative experience of past Russian-Chinese cooperation. It is a question of the material and that Russia is becoming a raw materials appendage of the PRC.

The current structure of commodity turnover is increasingly fixing Russia's status as a raw materials appendage of the Middle Kingdom: in 2012, the commodity turnover of the two countries increased to 88,16 billion dollars (Russian exports amounted to 44,15 billion dollars). At the same time, the share of machinery and equipment in it, analysts say, was 0,7%. The rest is minerals (hydrocarbons are almost 69%).

As for the talks with Medvedev, their results showed that Beijing is ready to act within the framework of the previous concept: Russian hydrocarbons in exchange for Chinese loans. What are these loans?

Kommersant notes a curious statement by Igor Sechin. The fact is that the financial support from China will have to be paid, the authors write. True, Mr. Sechin assured the journalists that the question of how much Rosneft would cost to receive prepayments from Sinopec and CNPC, what the size of the effective rate on these loans would be, “shouldn't worry them,” because “costs are not“ Rosneft. Who carries them? Nothing was said about this. At the same time, an unnamed representative of CNPC told Kommersant that the company credits Russians "not for free", but did not name the amount of possible discounts on raw materials or the loan rate.

“However, previous experience shows that the Chinese are not engaged in charity at all. The first major contract of Rosneft and Transneft with CNPC for the supply of 300 million tons of oil up to 2030 of the year, concluded in 2010, turned into a scandal. The parties differently estimated the coefficient affecting the cost of transporting oil. Losses for Rosneft and Transneft could amount to $ 16,9 billion and $ 11,3 billion, respectively. They could not agree for more than a year, during which the CNPC underpaid for Russian oil, even the intervention of the top officials of the state did not help. As a result, Russian companies agreed to give CNPC a country discount of $ 1,5 per barrel. Moreover, Kommersant’s sources claim that Russia was just lucky: the Chinese demanded a discount of up to $ 10 per barrel and agreed to $ 1,5 only because of the beginning of the Arab Spring, which threatened the reliability of oil supplies to China from the Middle East. So, based on the total volume of oil supplies of the Russian Federation to China at the level of 760 million tons to 2038 of the year, Beijing on these contracts could theoretically save $ 8,5-56,8 billion. ”


“Today, relations (Russia and China) are at an unprecedented height,” the journalist quotes Dmitry Medvedev as saying "Voices of America" Evgenia Kuznetsova. This conclusion was made at the conclusion of the visit to China by the Russian prime minister.

Li Keqiang said emotionally: "If we had more time, we were ready to stand and watch the documents being signed."

Experts do not share the euphoria of the highest officials. They fear that Russia will turn into a “raw milk cow for China”, notes E. Kuznetsova. For example, Oleg Buklemishev, an associate professor of economics at Moscow State University, in his commentary to Voice of America, said that he saw nothing terrible in the provision of raw materials by Russia. There is raw material, and it needs to be sold to someone. However, the expert hopes that cooperation will switch to other areas. True, there are no prerequisites for this ...

Among the dangers for Russia, the expert called the difference in the technological development of the two countries, which continues to increase:

“Outwardly, all this looks great, but I have serious concerns that we are starting to lose more and more in competitiveness to China. I mean, if earlier we were proud of certain breakthroughs in a number of technological areas, scientific development and a number of other issues, now, apparently, we are rapidly losing these advantages. ”


But the PRC, on the contrary, takes the first place in the world in terms of the number of studies, patents and other scientific and technical evidence.

In addition to the raw material vector of cooperation between Russia and China, the media also talks about the PRC's credit strategy.

As reported from Beijing, Jan Milyukova (Gazeta.ru), Vnesheconombank agreed to receive from the Chinese State Development Bank two loans worth $ 1,2 billion for the construction of a multifunctional complex on the territory of the Moscow Slava plant and for the construction of the third power generating unit at Ekibastuz GRES-2 in Kazakhstan. VEB also entered into a framework agreement for obtaining a credit line in 700 million from the Export and Import Bank of China. In addition, RusHydro and the Three Gorges, a Chinese corporation, agreed to consider joint participation in the construction of flood control hydropower stations on the tributaries of the Amur.

The energy expansion of the Middle Kingdom is characterized by other agreements.

Oleg Deripaska's En + Group and China Huaneng Group have entered into a strategic partnership framework agreement. According to Gazeta.ru, cooperation involves the construction of power plants in eastern Russia, the supply of electricity to the domestic market and to the PRC, as well as, possibly, joint coal mining.

Thus, the new agreements emphasize almost exclusively the energy vector of cooperation between China and Moscow. China supplies consumer goods and equipment to Russia, receiving energy in exchange. And even loans issued to Muscovites in Beijing, are related to energy. As for oil and gas, the Chinese will undoubtedly trade out favorable terms for themselves. They have a successful bargaining experience. But Russia does not bargain with it: there is a lot of oil and gas, and someone needs to sell them ...

Observed and commented on Oleg Chuvakin
- especially for topwar.ru
Photos used:
http://kommersant.ru/
132 comments
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  1. os9165
    os9165 25 October 2013 08: 21 New
    27
    Dmitry Medvedev: “Relations between Russia and China have reached unprecedented heights” - Kryndets Onishchenko - wait for more than one “Kemsk parish”. Medvedev in your head is neither the interests of Russia, nor the interests of citizens, nor concern for their health, only money. And, strangely enough, for us Russians, the fighter against wild capitalism in the 2000 years was Gennady Onishchenko.
    1. Civil
      Civil 25 October 2013 08: 25 New
      15
      The author, how did not turn into a raw materials appendage ?! Look at the structure of exports and imports, and Europe's main trading partner :-)
      1. Vadivak
        Vadivak 25 October 2013 09: 04 New
        10
        Quote: ....
        gloomy people wrote: Russia is about to turn into a raw materials appendage of the West. Did not come true.


        Um. With the entry into the WTO, several poultry farms went bankrupt here, before that, by the way, they were modernized. Poper the cheap goods from the WTO, only the cheap one before it hits the counter, as the 200-300% traders did and do so. It is clear who is driving this policy through the popularly elected
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 25 October 2013 09: 06 New
          14
          Quote: Vadivak
          It is clear who is driving this policy through the popularly elected

          Medvedev, Medvedev and no one else. It was he who made Putin join the WTO winked
          1. Vadivak
            Vadivak 25 October 2013 09: 28 New
            22
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            It was he who made Putin join the WTO


            And if Putin is against, then he will growl at him
            1. alone
              alone 25 October 2013 10: 43 New
              +6
              Medvedev without Putin’s permission doesn’t even have the right to have breakfast.
              1. The comment was deleted.
              2. The comment was deleted.
              3. Thunderbolt
                Thunderbolt 25 October 2013 13: 12 New
                +1
                Quote: lonely
                alone
                , you from another state are not so clearly and prismatically seen that in Russia ministers (party members, by the way) are ruled by constitutional methods, whose legitimacy we confirm at periodic elections, and our president observes the supremacy and observance of the constitution and regulations. Everything works like a Swiss watch (and in the Swiss bank cells --- shack crisis bully
                1. alone
                  alone 25 October 2013 13: 48 New
                  +1
                  from the side it is sometimes even more beautifully visible. yes, and Medvedev is no exception in this regard. in the countries of the former union, everything is done according to the words of the first person. the main first person.
              4. hrych
                hrych 25 October 2013 16: 02 New
                +2
                Let’s say, politely, empty yourself from breakfast ...
            2. zvereok
              zvereok 25 October 2013 11: 52 New
              +1
              Medvedev has a downside.
            3. True
              True 25 October 2013 21: 38 New
              +1
              New trick:
              Restrictions on cash payments in the Russian Federation may come into force in 2014
              (http://news.mail.ru/economics/15353920/) It seems that they are going to throw us. Again.
      2. Vladimir.z.
        Vladimir.z. 25 October 2013 09: 59 New
        +2
        The tandem "Economist" + "Lawyer" and the company rule ....
    2. SHILO
      SHILO 25 October 2013 08: 36 New
      13
      Russia as a raw materials appendage of China.

      And why are there no articles titled: "Russia as a raw material appendage of Europe"? request

      Maybe jealous? love
      1. alone
        alone 25 October 2013 10: 44 New
        +3
        Quote: SHILO
        And why are there no articles titled: "Russia as a raw material appendage of Europe"?

        Maybe jealous?


        You can't. LGBT people. wassat
        1. AVV
          AVV 25 October 2013 16: 48 New
          0
          The blue stream is evidence of this !!!
      2. Ribwort
        Ribwort 25 October 2013 22: 00 New
        0
        Quote: SHILO
        And why are there no articles titled: "Russia as a raw material appendage of Europe"?

        Russia is a raw materials appendage. It's humiliating. And who exactly, what the hell is the difference.
    3. Kibalchish
      Kibalchish 25 October 2013 08: 38 New
      17
      Welcome to our world
    4. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 25 October 2013 08: 39 New
      14
      Quote: os9165
      . Medvedev in your head neither the interests of Russia, nor the interests of citizens, nor concern for their health, only money

      Yes, but Medvedev personally went on his own or on Putin’s appointment. Maybe Putin is not interested in money for the country?
      They took a dumb fashion to write nonsense. Write, even think with your head, though ......... Medvedev is to blame for everything. Putin launched the gas pipeline, he also thinks about money, and not about Russia, yes.
      If Putin signed these agreements, then the comments would be - yes that's right fool
      And in general, what else can Russia offer China besides oil and gas?
      1. Kibalchish
        Kibalchish 25 October 2013 08: 45 New
        +6
        And who is to blame for the fact that there is nothing to offer besides oil and gas? After all, 10 years ago they sold much more to China.
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 25 October 2013 08: 47 New
          +6
          Quote: Kibalchish
          And who is to blame for the fact that there is nothing to offer besides oil and gas?

          Medvedev damn who else wassat
          1. Kibalchish
            Kibalchish 25 October 2013 09: 01 New
            +3
            Oh yes of course. And Putin, as it were, has nothing to do with it. It all worked out how the current economic crisis came out of the blue.
            The future of Russia is in industry, and as our "friends" said, 20 million will be enough to service the pipe. And our authorities have developed this thesis of "20 million h ... chiks and Tajiks", not Russians. And then the Russians will begin to demand the right or a decent life for themselves.
            1. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 25 October 2013 09: 07 New
              +8
              Quote: Kibalchish
              And Putin, as it were, has nothing to do with it.

              Of course not, Putin does not even know that Medvedev has signed something in China. Yes, Putin does not know that Medvedev has visited China laughing
            2. alone
              alone 25 October 2013 10: 45 New
              +1
              Quote: Kibalchish
              Oh yes of course. And Putin, as it were, has nothing to do with it.


              Putin always has nothing to do with wassat
            3. Konstantm
              Konstantm 25 October 2013 21: 39 New
              0
              Everyone knows that the Tsar is not in the know. It's time to send walkers.
        2. The comment was deleted.
      2. Revolver
        Revolver 25 October 2013 08: 57 New
        +6
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        And in general, what else can Russia offer China besides oil and gas?
        Sample weapons for copy. And after all, someone is smart enough to offer.
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 25 October 2013 09: 08 New
          +2
          Quote: Nagan
          And after all, someone is smart enough to offer.

          Wow, this Medvedev also sells weapons to Kiaits angry
          1. alone
            alone 25 October 2013 10: 46 New
            0
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            Wow, this Medvedev also sells weapons to Kiaits


            Medvedev turns into an elusive JOE laughing

            our shot ran everywhere
      3. Very old
        Very old 25 October 2013 09: 12 New
        +4
        Like what? And the land for "Chinatown"? However, they do not even ask. They populate D.V. with a quiet glan Here is such a "friendship" forever (or forever?)
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 25 October 2013 09: 16 New
          +1
          Quote: Very old
          However, they don’t ask. D.V is quietly populating

          And can you see where they populate there?
          1. Very old
            Very old 25 October 2013 09: 50 New
            +1
            Inhabit? Not yet. Inhabit, take root, take root, then do not uproot
            1. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 25 October 2013 10: 10 New
              +2
              Quote: Very old
              Not yet. Inhabit, take root, take root, then do not uproot

              Yeah, there is only one problem, a few years ago we had much more Chinese people than now.
            2. ivshubarin
              ivshubarin 25 October 2013 11: 19 New
              +1
              Even the Chinese markets closed, they do not want to populate us
      4. Egoza
        Egoza 25 October 2013 09: 33 New
        +5
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        What else can Russia offer China besides oil and gas?

        You can offer a lot - land, forest, clean water, which China really counts on, but is it necessary to offer? Maybe it’s better to learn how to conclude contracts correctly, checking everything to the last point? So that there will be no "suprises" later! AND be able to fight for the interests of the country?!
        1. afire
          afire 25 October 2013 10: 07 New
          +2
          Dima Dima, why did they send you that?
          a sales ghoul, as they say - history repeats itself - false Dmitry 2 to us all. (((
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 25 October 2013 10: 12 New
            +1
            Quote: afire
            Dima Dima, why did they send you that?

            And who sent the corrupt Dimka? Perhaps patriot Putin, huh? Or we have a game like this on the site is a good and bad boss.
          2. Ptah
            Ptah 25 October 2013 11: 05 New
            +3
            Quote: afire
            why the hell did they send you?

            They "bargained" from the Chinese a ban on the production of smoking mixtures, which they transported to Russia in wagons.
            In the PRC, they heeded calls to stop the production of narcotic-containing mixtures of spice banned in Russia
            Smokings from China are in steady demand
            China made an official promise to stop the production of banned smoking mixtures in Russia.

            Like this. We hope now that Russian youth will die a little less, and soon there will be no one to serve gas and oil pumping units and pipelines. The Chinese people understood this earlier than the Russians.
            We also signed a bunch of documents -
            "on roaming, customs and education".
            Well, of course, gifts for kremlyadey -
        2. Thunderbolt
          Thunderbolt 25 October 2013 11: 49 New
          +2
          Quote: Egoza
          Perhaps it is better to learn how to conclude contracts correctly, checking everything to the last point? So that there will be no "suprises" later! And be able to fight for the interests of the country? !!!
          Better, it's better, but in the concluded agreement, every letter is arithmetically precisely spelled out about the terms of the deal (khana to the final product (gasoline) --- we will drive the raw materials to Chinese refineries. Therefore, your words, please post-useless sentiment, and my words- emotions that, again unfortunately, recolor my attitude to this deal of the century. About the forest the same thing --- on YouTube there is how the GDP is broadcasting about the development of woodworking in the Far East, but these words have been for several years, but as they drove "round timber" he rushes in echelons. There is no responsibility or competition, alas.
    5. ele1285
      ele1285 25 October 2013 10: 06 New
      +2
      Quote: os9165
      Dmitry Medvedev: “Relations between Russia and China have reached unprecedented heights” - Kryndets Onishchenko - wait for more than one “Kemsk parish”. Medvedev in your head is neither the interests of Russia, nor the interests of citizens, nor concern for their health, only money. And, strangely enough, for us Russians, the fighter against wild capitalism in the 2000 years was Gennady Onishchenko.


      And when did our supporters have in their head the interests of the people? Under the kings, riots on the riots (the exception of Alexander III, and then not for long)? Under Soviet power, when they fed Africa, they made a showcase of socialism from the Baltic states. And now it’s just too hypertrophied, it feels like they have gathered the most disgusting from all times
      1. tolan_petrovich
        tolan_petrovich 25 October 2013 10: 56 New
        0
        There is such a discipline - Macroeconomics. Read at your leisure, it may feel better.
    6. kris
      kris 25 October 2013 11: 08 New
      +5
      There is no industry in the country, thanks to Putin for that !!!
    7. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 25 October 2013 11: 46 New
      +2
      Quote: os9165
      Dmitry Medvedev: “Relations between Russia and China have reached unprecedented heights”

      With Germany at 41, we also had love, friendship, chewing gum. How it ended everyone remembers. Dmitry Anatolyevich, you wouldn’t relax your buttocks, otherwise the Chinese will drive you the most tomatoes. And we have to stand up for you.
      PS Although, judging by the face in the photo, I was late with advice, have already moved in. laughing
      1. killganoff
        killganoff 26 October 2013 00: 16 New
        +1
        This does not bother them; families over the hill have long been taken out. If you immediately fall down and do not have time to blink an eye.
    8. smile
      smile 25 October 2013 18: 24 New
      -2
      os9165
      Here’s a strange thing, don’t you find it? ”“ The vast majority of site visitors drove a blizzard on Onishchenko as I recall. It was believed that he, the vicious dog of the Pu regime ..... He, the bad one and Belarus offends in vain, and quarreled with Ukraine .... and now, I look, the mood has changed .... :)))
      What turns out: The king is dead, Long live the king !? :)))
  2. makarov
    makarov 25 October 2013 08: 29 New
    +4
    The worship of the Golden Calf did not bring to good. History clearly warns of this, even through religion.
  3. Orel
    Orel 25 October 2013 08: 30 New
    +3
    Enough hysteria about the "raw material appendage" !!! This nonsense was invented at one time in the West. All sane people understand that they only sell what someone wants to buy. It so happened that they buy raw materials from us, and the rest is cheaper to buy in China. Well, this is the way the economy works and there is no disaster here. This is the legacy of our past development.
    1. MilaPhone
      MilaPhone 25 October 2013 08: 44 New
      +7
      Quote: Orel
      Enough hysteria about the "raw material appendage" !!!

      I agree with you. In addition, we still need to ensure that these raw materials are bought from us, and even better, that we depend heavily on it. That is, a constant geopolitical struggle. But at the expense of profit, it is of course necessary to develop other sectors of the economy.
    2. os9165
      os9165 25 October 2013 08: 45 New
      +9
      A legacy of development and so on for 20 years in a row. In China, too, a legacy and what they have achieved. It is necessary to work, not to sell resources stupidly. Make gasoline from oil, at least boards from the forest, etc.
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 25 October 2013 08: 49 New
        0
        Quote: os9165
        It’s necessary to work, not to sell resources stupidly

        A good slogan, but this is only a slogan and nothing more. Starring do not toss the bags.
        Speaking of the picture, Putin said the same thing.
        1. Kibalchish
          Kibalchish 25 October 2013 09: 07 New
          +5
          Stars do not roll bags.

          This is exactly what our top management is doing. They exist, as it were, separately from the people and appear only when they themselves need something from the family: pay us taxes, serve for us in the army, vote for United Russia.
          And we do not owe you anything! Good roads? No, not heard. Elementary rights of an individual and social guarantees? Oh, sorry, then.
        2. os9165
          os9165 25 October 2013 10: 06 New
          +1
          Why are you pestering Putin. Nobody argues that they go hand in hand with each other. BUT if you do not want to go, leave. Not going away. So triples this situation.
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 25 October 2013 10: 13 New
            +1
            Quote: os9165
            Why are you pestering Putin.

            But what kind of criticism of Medvedev is they throwing more advantages, but you shouldn’t touch Putin, he’s a good yes laughing
            1. os9165
              os9165 25 October 2013 10: 57 New
              0
              There is logic, but here you are wrong, write an article about Putin - we'll see.
      2. Don
        Don 25 October 2013 16: 41 New
        +2
        Quote: os9165
        It is necessary to work, not to sell resources stupidly. Make gasoline from oil, at least boards from the forest, etc.

        So not only the resources you sell. Oil products are one of the parts of export, just many countries have their own refineries and it makes no sense to buy oil products of the Russian Federation. And those who do not have or buy a little from the Russian Federation. Clean economy.
    3. APES
      APES 25 October 2013 08: 58 New
      +4
      I agree, I wanted to add:
      Quote: Orel
      Among the dangers for Russia, the expert called the difference in the technological development of the two countries, which continues to increase:

      let the expert consider the difference of strategic missile forces

      Quote: Orel
      Correspondents recall the negative experience of the past Russian-Chinese cooperation.

      Let them recall the 2 World War, when the USSR was calm in the direction of China (moreover, received help from it), and taking into account the possible closest (global) mess, such experience is very important for China and Russia. I think this is the main agreement.

      Quote: Orel
      Maybe jealous?

      Definitely - just look at the correspondents and experts.
    4. Starfish
      Starfish 25 October 2013 09: 55 New
      +1
      Enough hysteria about the "raw material appendage" !!!

      correctly. stop hysteria. it would be time for the guarantor with the iPhone to really modernize the economy, and not to build the dough with the shrapnel ones.
      and all these supplies of raw materials to China on their terms are rather humiliating. China needs raw materials and he gets it from us at prices that are more favorable to him than us. we can also recall the electricity that goes to China at a price 2 times lower than our own people in the Far East.
      and a refinery is being built in China to process our oil. and we do not need jobs in the Far East.
    5. terkin.vasi
      terkin.vasi 25 October 2013 10: 09 New
      +1
      In Soviet times, the country developed independently - it was self-sufficient, it had its own market, not depending not on the dollar exchange rate and not on the sale of oil and gas.
    6. Nayhas
      Nayhas 25 October 2013 14: 49 New
      -1
      Quote: Orel
      It so happened that they buy raw materials from us,

      Here you have fun! We are not a raw materials appendage, we just only sell raw materials! Humorist?
    7. Don
      Don 25 October 2013 16: 06 New
      +4
      Quote: Orel
      Enough hysteria about the "raw material appendage" !!! This nonsense was invented at one time in the West. All sane people understand that they only sell what someone wants to buy. It so happened that they buy raw materials from us, and the rest is cheaper to buy in China. Well, this is the way the economy works and there is no disaster here. This is the legacy of our past development.

      I agree with you. Norway, Canada, Australia sell their resources and do not let snot on the keyboard which and whose raw materials appendages.
    8. denn
      denn 26 October 2013 13: 49 New
      +1
      This is one of the favorite topics of the liberals and their media.

      1. There is nothing wrong with the export of raw materials. The main thing is that this does not become an economic needle. That would allow putting pressure on Russia as the USSR in due time.
      2. Geopolitical factors:
      2.1. The main thing is that Russia’s dependence on exports is much less, and buyers’s dependence is greater. For example, Europe before winter is much more accommodating.
      2.2. Long-term contracts with China are the key to the stability of relations and minimize the ability to drive wedges between our countries.

      IMHO
  4. aszzz888
    aszzz888 25 October 2013 08: 32 New
    +4
    Thus, the new agreements emphasize almost exclusively the energy vector of cooperation between China and Moscow. China supplies consumer goods and equipment to Russia, receiving energy in exchange. And even loans issued to Muscovites in Beijing, are related to energy. As for oil and gas, the Chinese will undoubtedly trade out favorable terms for themselves. They have a successful bargaining experience. But Russia does not bargain with it: there is a lot of oil and gas, and someone needs to sell them ...

    Of course, energy and consumer goods are not the proper level of economic relations, but to regulate the issue with such neighbors at this stage is perhaps better than nothing.
  5. ed65b
    ed65b 25 October 2013 08: 43 New
    +8
    Horror stories again. And what to trade with the world energy power? Correctly oil and gas. Arabs trade and no one speaks of them as a "raw material appendage," although they have nothing at all except oil and gas. And then China made concessions, or maybe it was ours who pressed it? And in general, they are doing the right thing to diversify flows, for Europe to note. Close one valve and open the other. We answer the blackmail of Europe with our bolt.
    1. 12061973
      12061973 25 October 2013 15: 34 New
      0
      Quote: ed65b
      Correctly oil and gas. Arabs trade and no one speaks of them as a "raw material appendage," although they have nothing at all except oil and gas.

      Arabs are an appendage, and they import Wahhabis to Russia.
      1. Yarosvet
        Yarosvet 25 October 2013 16: 12 New
        +2
        Quote: 12061973
        they import Wahhabis to Russia.
  6. Stinger
    Stinger 25 October 2013 08: 44 New
    +3
    What are we talking about? Even the girl herself cannot give more than what she has. It turns out that China is a clothing appendage of Russia?
    1. Kibalchish
      Kibalchish 25 October 2013 08: 49 New
      -1
      China has long been not only cheap clothes, but also advanced electronics, machine tools and everything that we do not have. Hurray-patriots rush about with us as with the ancient as the shit of the mammoth "Elbrus" as with the written sack, and at this time China was ahead of Russia in this for 10 years already.
    2. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 25 October 2013 08: 50 New
      +2
      Quote: Stinger
      It turns out that China is a clothing appendage of Russia?

      And not only Russia, but the whole world.
      1. Stinger
        Stinger 25 October 2013 09: 22 New
        +2
        Therefore, I say that discussions about appendages, appendicitis of the economy, etc., are exercises in the intellectual party of the so-called economists. One thing is clear, while accountants and lawyers rule us, do not wait for good.
      2. Ptah
        Ptah 25 October 2013 10: 54 New
        0
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        but the whole world.

        Absolutely incorrect statement, Sash.
        Europe is also "peace" but against the Chinese consumer goods are to die for. Most of their clothes, but there is a lot of Turkish, even Moroccan rubbish. Agricultural products are 85-90% European, exotic from South America.
        Otherwise, why are they so eager for the CIS markets?
        I know what I'm saying, I’ve been buying goods for 10 years only in europe.
  7. Ivan Pavlov
    Ivan Pavlov 25 October 2013 08: 53 New
    +1
    and I ask again, where is this party of pedrosovtsev? political impotent
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 25 October 2013 09: 10 New
      +1
      Quote: Ivan Pavlov
      and I ask again, where is this party of pedrosovtsev?

      And why do you need them here, or did they send Medvedev to China?
      1. Ivan Petrovich
        Ivan Petrovich 25 October 2013 10: 22 New
        +1
        but where is the economic breakthrough that they promised us when they came to power?
        1. alone
          alone 25 October 2013 12: 17 New
          +4
          Quote: Ivan Petrovich
          but where is the economic breakthrough that they promised us when they came to power?


          There is a jerk. And some kind of one. One Serdyuk pulled so much that he is still a witness.
          an economic breakthrough was promised not to you, but to ourselves))
  8. MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 25 October 2013 08: 55 New
    +3
    there is a lot of oil and gas, and someone needs to sell them ...
    As they say there is a demand there are offers. But the question of how to use the money earned for our raw materials is more difficult here (I hope they will not invest it again in American or Chinese securities) Europe is sitting on our oil and gas needle! Why not China to plant ...? And then we will see ..
    1. SPLV
      SPLV 25 October 2013 10: 13 New
      0
      Quote: MIKHAN
      Why not China planting ..?

      And will not it become more expensive? Will you have enough strength?
      The safest way is to pass a law banning the export of crude oil products, at least limit the percentage (20-40%), and the rest is only processed. Then investments will be made not only in Maybachs and Rolls-Royces. There will be new factories, and employment, and money in the country, and the demographic crisis will be eliminated. But who cares?
  9. pravednik
    pravednik 25 October 2013 09: 03 New
    +1
    The Chinese will gladly buy from us and all the Trans-Urals, once some officials want it, and the Chinese will sell an extra pair of panties in exchange. Do you not think, gentlemen, that the state "friends" are given all the fervor and only for their own well-being. underpants.
  10. Boris55
    Boris55 25 October 2013 09: 10 New
    -5
    Dmitry Medvedev's response to Putin's actions

    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 25 October 2013 09: 24 New
      -1
      Quote: Boris55
      Dmitry Medvedev's response to Putin's actions

      Your video is complete bullshit and lies. Tariffs were initially proposed to be frozen by Medvedev, and Putin supported this. You need to know this before you can post liberal videos.
      1. Boris55
        Boris55 25 October 2013 10: 53 New
        -1
        A link to Medvedev’s words - to the studio, yes, and if he was the first to offer, then why did he refuse his words? Does he have seven Fridays this week? or is he the master of his word - I want to give, I want to take?

        And in figs do we need such a mudabol?

        ps
        KPI has nothing to do with the Leberasts, but Medvedev is direct!
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 25 October 2013 11: 16 New
          -2
          Quote: Boris55
          A link to Medvedev’s words - to the studio,

          Here is a link for you, too lazy to delve into it, or is Medvedev cutting off his mind?

          Yesterday, Dmitry Medvedev proposed “freezing” tariffs for enterprises and the public in 2014 and gave the command to calculate the consequences of such a move. The Ministry of Finance supported the proposal, the monopolies - against, the presidential administration - has not decided.

          According to Vedomosti, the government may completely abandon indexation of tariffs of natural monopolies in 2014. Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev instructed to evaluate the feasibility of such a decision and present scenarios of the consequences of such a step before September 9, Natalya Timakova, spokeswoman for Medvedev, confirmed. We are talking about Gazprom tariffs for gas, Russian Railways for freight transportation, Rosseti for electricity transmission, as well as tariffs for heat and light for the population.

          Spokesman for President Vladimir Putin Dmitry Peskov said the presidential administration has not yet decided whether to support the government’s proposal or not, Vedomosti reports. www.bk55.ru/news/article/21641
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 25 October 2013 11: 37 New
            -3
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            Boris55

            For you personally, this is from September 7th. If you are too lazy to follow the link. You can put another minus.
          2. Boris55
            Boris55 25 October 2013 11: 46 New
            0
            "... Vladimir Putin, after being elected president, intends to freeze utility rates for three years, said yesterday the first deputy chairman of the State Duma Committee on Housing Policy and Housing and Communal Services Elena Nikolaeva ... "http://newtariffs.ru/news/premer-vladimir-putin-zamorozit-tseny-v-zhkkh- na-tri-g
            ode

            Well, who before? Or the meaning of the video is still not in this, who is the first, but in the next divorce of citizens? Or do you deliberately divert the conversation from this?
            1. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 25 October 2013 11: 49 New
              -1
              Quote: Boris55
              Vladimir Putin, after being elected president, intends to freeze utility tariffs for three years, Elena Nikolaeva, first deputy chairman of the State Duma committee on housing policy and housing and communal services, said yesterday ...
              http://newtar

              I won’t give you a diagnosis. Communicate with someone else, it’s much easier for me to talk with Kars, although he is on his own but does not blunt.
  11. major071
    major071 25 October 2013 09: 10 New
    +7
    I don’t understand that the country does not receive money for gas and oil? We will not sell to China, we will sell to someone else. There is such an item of income in the budget and it brings at least some kind of money. I don’t digest Medvedev either, but he wouldn’t go, he would go another and still conclude an agreement. Well, when someone depends on you in the supply of oil and gas. The fenders can be closed ...
  12. Known who
    Known who 25 October 2013 09: 10 New
    +2
    So, quietly, we rob our children and grandchildren. Instead of building factories and selling the final product, we sell raw materials. As a result, the competitor's energy resources are cheaper than those of the producing country. How not to recall the advertisement of GAZPROM "We are robbing the country!"
  13. ele1285
    ele1285 25 October 2013 09: 11 New
    -1
    I wonder when the mess will begin in Russia, Pu and Me from Russia will be dumped or will they still fight for the feeding trough? Where else would such a freebie break off
  14. AK-47
    AK-47 25 October 2013 09: 15 New
    0
    As for gas supplies from Gazprom, then ... The price has not been agreed. These are market prices that will be accurate, and with reference to the oil basket. ”

    It is not clear at what price they agreed to sell oil, judging by the fact that if the market price for gas is not agreed upon, then the price of oil is far from market.
    Sadly all this.
  15. Lindon
    Lindon 25 October 2013 09: 22 New
    +4
    As we taught at a school in the USSR, we mined 1 tons of raw materials (oil or copper) and sold it to the West for 1000 dollars. West of this 1 tons (oil or copper) produces 1000 computers and sells for 1000 dollars. The question is who and who is smart - the one who sold 1 a ton of raw materials or the one who 1000 computers?
    Since the days of medieval guilds, it has been known that profits will be appropriated by guilds that produce the final product. Rough example in the history textbook of the USSR they described the production of boots: 1) skinning workshops - 10 profit of guilders from skins, 2) rawhide shops - second skinning - 10 of guilders from skins, 3) workshops - cutting skins to blanks for boots -XNUM skins, 10) workshops - sewing boots from finished pieces - 4 guilders from the skins. So much for the economy - the main profit settles on the final producer.
    In the modern world, it already looks like this:
    1) In the West - the USA or the EU invents and invents a product and sends sketches for processing to engineers in countries where they are professionals and are inexpensive - Taiwan.
    2) Engineers shift sketches to a specific technological production line - write those tasks for different sections of production.
    3) Direct production - where cheap power is a slave - China stupidly produces finished product patterns from Taiwan.
    The question is where does the main margin settle?
    1. SPLV
      SPLV 25 October 2013 10: 19 New
      +1
      Yes, but if the banking system collapses, only those with production capacities and agriculture will survive. After 1917 in Russia, where did the shareholders of the shares end up? But the plants and the land remained.
    2. Ptah
      Ptah 25 October 2013 11: 10 New
      +1
      Quote: Lindon
      The question is where does the main margin settle?

      In the field of tourism and entertainment of some "warm countries" ??? what
    3. nikcris
      nikcris 25 October 2013 13: 04 New
      0
      The main margin always settles at the SELLER of the final product.
    4. Don
      Don 29 October 2013 12: 49 New
      0
      Quote: Lindon
      In the modern world, it already looks like this:
      1) In the West - the USA or the EU invents and invents a product and sends sketches for processing to engineers in countries where they are professionals and are inexpensive - Taiwan.
      2) Engineers shift sketches to a specific technological production line - write those tasks for different sections of production.
      3) Direct production - where cheap power is a slave - China stupidly produces finished product patterns from Taiwan.
      The question is where does the main margin settle?

      It is well-painted, but many factors are not taken into account, for example:
      1. In what currency is the calculation.
      2. Under what conditions is an agreement concluded between a company in the USA and a company in Taiwan.
      3. They do not invent the product every day, and oil is extracted and sold every day.
      4. Pricing for this product, not every product is expensive.
      And in general, what kind of margin do you mean market, exchange or banking? And where does she come from?
  16. lex fim
    lex fim 25 October 2013 09: 32 New
    0
    As Grigory Rasputin used to say: "Itches, itches."
    1. Ptah
      Ptah 25 October 2013 11: 12 New
      +2
      Quote: lex-fim
      As Grigory Rasputin used to say: "Itches, itches."

      This is a forum for dermatologists.
  17. AlexCPP
    AlexCPP 25 October 2013 09: 38 New
    +3
    And why articles with such content do not come out - "Norway is a raw material appendage of Great Britain" or "Canada is a raw material appendage of the USA" or, in extreme cases, "Australia is a raw material appendage"? Here people do not understand a little that now we live in a global world. And in this world there are no countries that would be 100% self-sufficient. Even the USSR had imports and exported raw materials. We sell what we can sell. RF are good at nuclear energy, military-industrial complex, space industry, you can write more, but I don't want to go into the structure of imports. So the article is not about anything. Globally speaking, there are no independent states in terms of export and import. This is the reason for the globalization of markets.
    1. Don
      Don 29 October 2013 12: 52 New
      0
      Quote: AlexCPP
      Speaking globally, there are no independent states in terms of export-import. This is the reason for the globalization of markets.

      I agree with you. There are no completely self-sufficient states in the world.
  18. 31231
    31231 25 October 2013 09: 39 New
    0
    Quote: Kibalchish
    After all, 10 years ago they sold much more to China.


    Do not give a comparison?
  19. Averias
    Averias 25 October 2013 09: 41 New
    +8
    We got "loud" headlines and no less "loud" comments of omniscient "analysts" home-grown. Everyone, everyone knows. Everyone is "gushing" with ideas of how to "fix" and fix everything. They're sprinkling with some numbers and statistics (taken from the Internet, like - Google knows everything and tells only the truth).

    At first Putin was to blame, now Medvedev, tomorrow there will be someone else. And so on to infinity. Favorite game, switchman game.
    Who even knows what is going on behind the scenes? Who can know which multi-move combination is being played? After all, it is obvious that in order to win, you need to sacrifice something (just no need to yell now about corruption, Putin's palaces and that he alone owns everything and rakes money).

    Yes, no country will agree to take possession of Russia alone, this is a utopia. The war will begin immediately. Since other countries, too, want to own what we have and will not allow someone to own it alone. Just like dividing our territory will not work, there will be a clamor, but why do you need this ... and we have this. .., we want like this ..., and so on and so on. So our "friends" are trying to come to an agreement, they are joining alliances and so on. Only now they do not believe each other. YES, and Russia is great (yes, yes, great, it was and will always be), not a bastard. Despite all the internal hardships and problems, we are steadily strengthening ourselves on the geopolitical battlefield. We are getting stronger and they are beginning to fear us again.

    Giving out in the comments information taken from the media, the Internet, rumors, speculation for reality. This is reminiscent of the verbiage of grannies at the entrance. One chatter.

    As the character of the great Bulgakov said, "Balls" - Take everything and divide. So let's not be like these characters.

    A banal example, if you look at what happened during Yeltsin (we were plundered, sold, trampled into the mud), and now - only a fool will not notice the change.

    IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO RISE A COUNTRY FROM THE "RUINS" WITHOUT STRENGTHENING IT EXTERNALLY.
    1. MIKHAN
      MIKHAN 25 October 2013 10: 09 New
      +3
      They wrote normally! plus to you ..
    2. New Russia
      New Russia 25 October 2013 11: 09 New
      0
      "First Putin was to blame, now Medvedev" And I thought the opposite.

      "Who even knows what is going on behind the scenes?" I don't care what happens behind the scenes! There is a mess in the country, 13 years is enough time to fix any mess, but they don't even have any changes in their plans.

      "Who can know which multi-move combination is being played?" Oooh started) Already nauseous from the phrase a multi-move combination. They are already openly carrying out all their dirty plans, and Putin has ceased to be ashamed of the fact that, for example, there will be even more migrants, was he forced to say so? Medvedev forced ???

      "After all, it is obvious that in order to win, you need to sacrifice something" Now they donate to mothers with many children, the funded part of the pension was canceled in 2014, education was ruined, and all this for the sake of a great goal!)

      "just don't yell now about corruption, Putin's palaces" As you say, I will not, so everyone knows about corruption, Serdyukov and so on.

      "we are steadily gaining ground on the geopolitical battlefield." We are an unnecessary base in Tajikistan, and they are for this a million murderers, rapists and drug dealers, well, since the wise government has decided, it’s better that way, right?)

      "Giving out in the comments information taken from the media, the Internet, rumors, speculation for the realities." Yeah. Serdyukov and Chubais are honest people, there is no widespread corruption, no genocide.

      "A banal example, if you look at what happened during Yeltsin" How much you can frighten Yeltsin! I don't give a damn what was there 14 years ago, you will remember 20 years in 90 years! You can transform a country in 10 years! The demographic crisis is not broken, the entire government and the entire Duma are thieves and Russophobes. On the streets they kill, as in the 90s only before Russians killed now blacks. The economy is in recession, education, the Russian Academy of Sciences, medicine were destroyed under Putin.

      Bottom line: you consider yourself stupid, unworthy of discussing such "great" personalities as Putin and Medvedev, in your opinion the authorities are always smarter and you, a slave, should not talk about high ranks. Well, since you have such a high opinion of yourself, this is your right) And I think that I am smarter than Medvedev by many orders of magnitude!) Here I am so impudent. And Putin is also not an authority for me, to put it mildly, I have pride and self-respect, concepts are unfamiliar to you
      1. Averias
        Averias 25 October 2013 11: 31 New
        0
        And let me ask you what they did for the welfare of the country. You don't give a damn now, and you won't give a damn about the future either. Because you so want and so decided. You think that everyone owes and owes you. You sincerely think that someone should do everything. Your pearl - "I consider myself smarter ....", speaks for itself. You are comparing, that is, idealizing. Instead of doing something, you are Sharikov.
        1. Starfish
          Starfish 25 October 2013 11: 40 New
          +4
          IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO RISE A COUNTRY FROM THE "RUINS" WITHOUT STRENGTHENING IT EXTERNALLY.

          Tell Stalin about this. in the 30s the USSR was almost completely isolated, but the country rose from ruins.
          1. ivshubarin
            ivshubarin 25 October 2013 11: 46 New
            +1
            Stalin and his enemies had quite a few, waiting for revenge. He even looked like a Chubais from the west, but he gave them no chance
          2. Averias
            Averias 25 October 2013 11: 51 New
            0
            Well, well, only you dear forgot about the army, which went half the world. And about the fact that after the Second World War, half of the world was not in the best economic condition. And no one would pull another war. No need for demagoguery.
            1. Starfish
              Starfish 25 October 2013 11: 57 New
              +1
              Well, well, only you dear forgot about the army, which went half the world. And about the fact that after the Second World War,

              read carefully

              Tell Stalin about this. in the 30s of the USSR
              1. Averias
                Averias 25 October 2013 12: 01 New
                +1
                Well, say in the 30s. Well, what kind of shisha did they raise the country for? I won’t breed demagoguery. Let me give you an example, only one of the names is Hammer. Further yourself please.
              2. Don
                Don 29 October 2013 14: 20 New
                0
                Quote: Starfish
                Tell Stalin about this. in the 30s of the USSR

                Yes, but at what cost.
        2. New Russia
          New Russia 25 October 2013 12: 12 New
          0
          "And let me ask you, but they did what they did for the well-being of the country. You don't care now, and in the future you won't care either." If the new leader in 10 years does not do a fig after Putin, then yes, I will not give a damn about the same.

          "You think that everyone owes and owes you." Yes, I think they owe me. Putin owes me personally. Must drive out migrants and imprison thieves. And I like that the authorities, my servants do not fulfill what I want.

          "Your pearl -" I consider myself smarter .... "" Don't you consider yourself smarter than Medvedev? Gosha.

          "Instead of doing something." In order to influence there are elections. Formally, because in reality it is not. I do what depends on me, I have a civil position and my job.
          1. Averias
            Averias 25 October 2013 12: 31 New
            +3
            Quote: New Russia
            And you do not consider yourself smarter than Medvedev? Gosha.


            Such a comparison is not only incorrect, it is wretched in its essence. We are all smart in hindsight. Where was our mind when WE were intoxicated with the word "freedom" in the time of Gorbachev, drank vodka and shouted - FREEDOM, PUBLICITY, DEMOCRACY. Not noticing the collapse of the country.

            Where was our mind when there was a coup. Where was our mind, when, while some were drunk from the freedom that fell upon them (not understanding the truth what to do about it), they did not see point blank how others were plundering the country. Where was our mind when they cut military aircraft, nuclear submarines and missiles.

            Or not us (in the USSR), secretly looking at foreign magazines, uplifting the dubious qualities of Coca-Cola and daydreaming about coveted jeans. Silently scolded SOVOK and our rulers (where are the jokes then). Is it not we who praised THEIR life, knowing about it only from the words of those who were lucky to go there.

            It was not we who choked on the lines for the import deficit, but having bought it, for a long time we could not understand why.

            Or is it from a great mind, we debunked one cult of personality and immediately created a new one? And they always entertained ourselves with an illusion - well, now we’ll heal, now it will be awesome.

            Or under the USSR there were no bribe takers, guild workers. Children of party workers (golden youth), special stores, special shops. BUT everyone was outwardly satisfied, as there was egalitarianism. Why during the USSR, our rulers, took care of the Union republics more than their fellow citizens? Why, if everyone was happy with the USSR, suddenly they suddenly rushed to vulgarize everything. Why, in the era of perestroika, shouted about the Stalinist camps and terror? Why did they make a monster from Beria (and after all, the peasant, although he had flaws, but he promoted and supported science).

            And when, instead of the "smile" of capitalism, they suddenly saw the "animal grin". Then they began to shout. It smells of hypocrisy.

            This is an endless and absurd topic.

            We ourselves gave the authorities the reins of government (a long time ago). And the authorities will never take off their "last pants" for the people. It never happened and never will.
            Any power is a dictate, and there is no other way. With "carrots and sticks," either keep the people in check, or power the skiff.
            1. New Russia
              New Russia 25 October 2013 12: 57 New
              +1
              "Such a comparison is not only incorrect, it is wretched in its essence. We are all smart in hindsight. Where was our mind when WE were intoxicated with the word" freedom "in the time of Gorbachev, drank vodka and shouted - FREEDOM, PUBLICITY, DEMOCRACY. collapse of the country.

              Where was our mind when there was a putsch. Where was our mind, when, while some drunk from the freedom that fell on them (not knowing the truth what to do with it), they did not see how others were plundering the country. Where was our mind when warplanes, nuclear submarines and missiles were cut. "
              That is, in your opinion, all the problems of the country is a lack of freedom ??? In general, the economy is collapsing, and in general, everything that can collapse is collapsing.

              “We ourselves gave the authorities the reins of government (a long time ago). And the authorities will never take off their“ last pants ”for the people. It was not and never will be."
              Two names. Hitler and Stalin.

              "Any power is a dictate, and there is no other way. With a" carrot and stick ", either keep the people in check, or the power skiff." And what the hell is that power to us? You are not offended that for the occupiers you are nobody and nothing ??? You. Pride. There is? At least some self-respect
              1. Don
                Don 29 October 2013 14: 25 New
                0
                Quote: New Russia
                Two names. Hitler and Stalin.

                laughing Are you out of your mind? Does this mean Stalin and Hitler lived in poverty and all for the sake of the people?
                Quote: New Russia
                And do we have such power? You are not offended that for the occupiers you are nobody and nothing ???

                What are the occupiers? You need to be treated.
          2. wk-083
            wk-083 26 October 2013 04: 01 New
            0
            For migrants and thieves plus!
        3. Yarosvet
          Yarosvet 25 October 2013 13: 16 New
          0
          Quote: Averias
          Who even knows what is going on behind the scenes? Who can know which multi-move combination is being played?
          Obviously you - you do not agree that everything is not in order in the Danish kingdom.

          After all, it’s obvious that in order to win, you need to sacrifice something
          I am embarrassed to ask - to defeat whom or what? On the basis of what you conclude that someone is trying to defeat someone, if ... - see the first quote?

          Yes, no country will not take what would seize Russia alone, this is utopia ...
          Logical.

          Despite all the internal hardships and problems, we are steadily gaining ground in the geopolitical battlefield
          Adversity and problems for whom - 90% of ordinary citizens with an average per capita income of 30 tr and below, or from the owners of factories, newspapers, ships - who are in power?
          How are we "getting stronger" - by finally depriving ourselves of the possibility of self-sufficiency and reducing the state-forming people?
          Is the essence of this "strengthening" in what - in the well-being of the population, or in attempts to convince this population that it should protect "their" factories, newspapers, steamers free of charge - that is, the interests of the owners of the aforementioned property?

          As the character of the great Bulgakov said, "Balls" - Take everything and divide. So let's not be like these characters
          Let's better not become like those characters to whom you are assiduously assimilating - open the dictionary and see the meaning of the concept of "nationalization".

          A banal example, if you look at what happened during Yeltsin (we were plundered, sold, trampled into the mud), and now - only a fool will not notice the change
          And here it is possible in more detail - what exactly has conceptually changed since 01.01.2000/31.12.1999/XNUMX compared to XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX, and what does the current leadership have to do with this?

          Quote: Averias
          You think that everyone owes and is obliged to you. You sincerely think that someone should do everything
          You open the Constitution.

          Instead of doing something
          Please tell me what exactly you did, for which all those present on the forum should be grateful to you?
          1. Averias
            Averias 25 October 2013 13: 26 New
            +2
            I will immediately answer both yours and the previous comments. Enough to distort and engage in verbiage. And ...... answer a question with a question (what I did and what did not). There is nothing to say, well ... and pour over from empty to empty.

            You worry about your services to the fatherland, but I will somehow manage without you. Here it is, the game of the switchman - "Tell me please - what exactly did you do, for which all those present at the forum should be grateful to you?" This is why I have to say and report something to you, why am I afraid? That's the way it is everywhere, they say someone has to do something for us, and we will eat vodka in the kitchen and shout that we know how to fix everything.

            I have enough of what I am doing, and also I have enough of what people say thanks for this to me. And I do not ask anyone to give me a report in anything (unlike you).

            I have already seen so many such commentators. Even if I now describe what I have done (for other people), you will still find something to complain about and will continue to ask absurd questions.

            In general, then (if you suddenly felt that I, in my commentary, had distinguished myself. I always say WE). I do not personalize or dissociate the concept of MYSELF and US. I always say WE, and WE are a country and a people.
            1. Yarosvet
              Yarosvet 25 October 2013 13: 46 New
              -1
              Quote: Averias
              I will immediately answer both yours and the previous comments. Enough already to distort and engage in verbiage
              You post general phrases - what exactly is juggling and verbiage?

              This is why I have to tell you something and report back, with what fright then?
              A few posts above:
              Quote: Averias
              And let me ask you, but you yourself have done what for the well-being of the country
              That is, you allow yourself to ask similar questions to others, but you do not allow you to ask these questions.
              What is it, schizophrenia or something else - what do you think?

              they say that someone must do something for us
              Finally open the Constitution.
              1. Averias
                Averias 25 October 2013 14: 01 New
                +1
                Quote: Yarosvet
                A few posts above:


                I poked my nose because the opponent did it first.

                Are I common phrases? Come on. And then what are you doing.
                1. Yarosvet
                  Yarosvet 25 October 2013 14: 44 New
                  0
                  Quote: Averias
                  I poked my nose because the opponent did it first
                  I do not find a post where N. Rus asks you similar questions - highlight this question of her in the quote.

                  And then what are you doing.
                  I ask you:
                  Quote: Yarosvet
                  defeat whom or what? Based on what do you conclude that someone is trying to defeat someone?

                  Adversity and problems for whom - 90% of ordinary citizens with an average per capita income of 30 tr and below, or from the owners of factories, newspapers, ships - who are in power?
                  How are we "getting stronger" - by finally depriving ourselves of the possibility of self-sufficiency and reducing the state-forming people?
                  Is the essence of this "strengthening" in what - in the well-being of the population, or in attempts to convince this population that it should protect "their" factories, newspapers, steamers free of charge - that is, the interests of the owners of the aforementioned property?

                  what exactly has conceptually changed since 01.01.2000/31.12.1999/XNUMX compared to XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX, and what does the current leadership have to do with it?
                  1. Averias
                    Averias 25 October 2013 15: 16 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Yarosvet
                    I do not find a post where N. Rus asks you similar questions - highlight this question of her in the quote.


                    And in the context you do not know how to read or what? At the end of her commentary, she makes this clear. Quote: "And I think that I am smarter than Medvedev by many orders of magnitude!) Here I am so impudent." This is what, in fact, this is exactly what you are talking about to me. So I asked, well, since she's so smart, tell me about your glorious deeds for the good of the fatherland. And to say that a person is durak, and to declare the unsurpassed mind, can only be a person with unrealized ambitions or a fool. Or something with upbringing. A person who respects himself will never make such statements. And even more so, idealize and personalize.
                    1. Yarosvet
                      Yarosvet 25 October 2013 15: 31 New
                      0
                      Quote: Averias
                      Quote: "And I think that I am smarter than Medvedev by many orders of magnitude!) Here I am so impudent"
                      A provocative statement that has no opportunity either to justify or to debunk - it may be wrong, but it may be right.

                      So I asked, well, since she’s so smart, tell me about your glorious deeds for the good of the motherland
                      It turns out that you have decided to replace Medvedev in this matter, but the question arises - "why on earth?"

                      Well, so to say that a person is a durak, and only a person with unfulfilled ambitions or a fool can say about the unmatchedness of his mind
                      Or a person tired of the mess going on in the country.


                      PS In your first post, to which many reacted by disagreeing, you made unfounded emotional statements that, in my (and not only) opinion, diverge from the existing reality, as a result of which I asked you a number of questions.

                      Do I understand correctly that I can’t wait for an answer from you?
                      1. Averias
                        Averias 25 October 2013 15: 59 New
                        +1
                        Does it make sense? In my opinion, I said that for any of my answers, you will ask more and more. For now, I, or I do not agree with your point of view, and simply will not send you.
                        I will not do either one or the other.
                        What for?
                        I expressed my point of view without referring to someone personally.
                        You, however, switched to specifics, turning into demagogy.
                        As the character of Bulgakov said, when visiting the apartment of prof. Preobrazhensky - "If there was a dispute now ...". So, to arrange a palemic and a dispute, it is not clear why - I, forgive generously, do not intend.
                        I do not like it, so minus what the problem is?
                      2. Yarosvet
                        Yarosvet 25 October 2013 16: 09 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Averias
                        I said in my opinion that for any of my answers, you will ask more and more
                        Even if I don’t want to? laughing

                        In fact, I was not going to ask questions further, but to show you, if possible on real facts, that you were mistaken.

                        You turned to specifics, turning into demagogy
                        You get confused again: demagogy is just general phrases that are not confirmed by facts or logic.
                      3. Averias
                        Averias 25 October 2013 16: 58 New
                        0
                        Quote: Yarosvet
                        In fact, I was not going to ask questions further, but to show you, if possible on real facts, that you were mistaken.


                        This is your opinion, and you certainly have the right to do so. I have my own opinion, and I also have the right to it. Is not it? Then why did you decide to show me something and explain that I'm wrong?
                        I, in relation to you, do not do this.

                        And at the expense of general phrases, logic, and other things, I’ll say how - Everything in this world is relative. What today was true, facts, logic - tomorrow may turn out to be profanity. It turns out that everything was wrong. It turns out that you and I were deeply mistaken. And vice versa. There are plenty of examples.

                        Therefore, I propose to stay with my own. drinks
                      4. Yarosvet
                        Yarosvet 25 October 2013 17: 19 New
                        0
                        We will remain our own if we don’t exchange the information we know (if you don’t argue your opinion when discussing any issue on the forum, then such communication generally loses all meaning - I read the article, I killed time and forgot)

                        why did you decide to show me something and explain that I'm wrong?
                        Because I have reason to believe so - that's why I asked you questions.

                        I, in relation to you, do not do this
                        You have every right.
                        I still hope a little that someone can bring facts that would make me understand that the country is moving uphill, and not falling into the abyss - but it is the facts.

                        What today was true, facts, logic - tomorrow may turn out to be profanity
                        It cannot: truth is a description of a fact, fact is that which actually exists, logic is a chain of causal relationships.

                        hi
                      5. El13
                        El13 25 October 2013 17: 39 New
                        -1
                        The first time in this discussion put you a plus, the rest of the minuses - including from me.
                        Quote: Yarosvet
                        truth is a description of fact

                        but what about the postscript "correct description of the fact" :)))
                        and I can give you the facts, twenty years ago without a "roof" you would not be able to do any business, and you could not be sure that tomorrow you will not be banally killed for a place "in the market", twenty years ago I thought as if what to eat, now I'm thinking where to get money for a land plot, before the country was smitten from all sides, now it's "not so", before salaries were not paid to many acquaintances, now they complain that salaries are small, before I poured a washer reservoir onto the windshield for day, and now you have to dilute with alcohol so that the remnants from the summer do not freeze ... continue?
                      6. Yarosvet
                        Yarosvet 25 October 2013 19: 06 New
                        +2
                        Quote: El13
                        but what about the postscript "correct description of the fact" :)))
                        Therefore, everyone has their own truth, but the fact of this does not cease to be a fact.

                        twenty years ago, without a "roof", you could not be engaged in any business
                        As now - only the roof has changed.

                        also you could not be sure that tomorrow you will not be corny killed for a place "in the market"
                        Now, as before, there is no certainty that they will not kill or imprison if someone suddenly decides to squeeze out the business, and the business remains mostly large - it is not racketeering.

                        twenty years ago I was thinking of something to eat
                        Now 2/3 of the population thinks about it - you just don’t enter these 2/3.

                        before the country was smitten from all sides, now it is "not so"
                        Previously, when they put on the opinion of the country EBN did not do a good face with a bad game, and even promoted it much worse - otherwise everything remained as it was.

                        Earlier salaries were not paid to many friends, now they complain that salaries are small
                        Previously, there was a redistribution of property, but now everything has settled down, everyone has agreed, each has its own piece. Well, the fact that 90% of the population has less than thirty per capita incomes is probably a trifle for you.

                        I used to pour a washer reservoir on the windshield in a day, but now I have to dilute it with alcohol so that the remains from the summer do not freeze
                        And under Putin, computers became 3 times faster.

                        Since they have already begun to cite the facts, tell me - what is the conceptual difference between now and the end of '99, and what exactly is the current leadership of the country related to these changes?
                      7. El13
                        El13 25 October 2013 21: 58 New
                        0
                        I realized Averias was right, after the first questions you answer, the following will appear and so on ad infinitum ...
                        ... What today was true, facts, logic - tomorrow may turn out to be a profanation ...

                        It cannot: truth is a description of a fact ...

                        .
                        ... each has its own truth

                        Fir, you do not even adhere to your logic ...
                        About the roof I will not say that everywhere, but for the most part in the understanding that it was - racketeers for the most part are absent. Medium and large businesses have more problems. It seems that you are not at all in the subject.
                        Where are those 2/3 of the population who are looking for food and this is the purpose of their life? You say, don’t talk.
                        About Yeltsin - I will not say anything.
                        An income of less than thirty is at least twenty — otherwise it is said — less than twenty, and an income of 20+ is a good income, you can live on it, and not just eat it, even in St. Petersburg (I won’t say anything about Moscow). Again by.
                        And about the tank - this suggests that the city has become cleaner, that they began to clean it, and this needs to be done every day, and not once and for all and your comparison is just dumb.
                        But before the "conceptual difference" I don't really care, since the people began to live much better.
                      8. Yarosvet
                        Yarosvet 25 October 2013 22: 59 New
                        0
                        Quote: El13
                        I realized Averias was right, after the first questions you answer, the following will appear and so on ad infinitum ...
                        You are mistaken: firstly - before my previous post I did not ask you any questions - it was your decision to designate the alleged "facts".
                        Secondly - you have definitely designated not Facts, but at best your own opinion.

                        You don’t even adhere to your logic ...
                        I do not adhere to my logic, but simply logic: for example, we can argue about whether an elephant is or not, I will describe it, someone else will describe it differently - this will be a different description of the fact (different truth), but I can always provide you either an elephant or its image, that is a fact.

                        I won’t say about the roof that everywhere, but for the most part in the understanding that it was - racketeers are mostly absent
                        You are trying to replace the essence of the form.

                        There are just more problems for medium and large businesses
                        What are the allegedly lost profits of Gazprom and Russian Railways?

                        Where are those 2/3 of the population who are looking for food and this is the purpose of their life?
                        Not looking, but forced to save on good nutrition.
                        Tell me - how much do you need for food per month, provided that prices do not change, you will have to eat for this money for 20 years and you can’t feed from the garden?

                        and income 20+ is a good income, you can live on it, and not just eat it, even in St. Petersburg (I won’t say anything about Moscow)
                        Question above.

                        it means that the city has become cleaner, that they began to clean it, and this needs to be done every day, and not once and for all and your comparison is just dumb
                        It’s rude and incomprehensible - compared to what year the city became cleaner?

                        But before the "conceptual difference" I don't really care, since the people began to live much better.
                        I repeat - it was for you, not the people, to live better: your statement is a subjective opinion, not a fact.
                    2. Don
                      Don 29 October 2013 16: 51 New
                      0
                      Quote: Yarosvet
                      Well, the fact that 90% of the population has less than thirty per capita incomes

                      I will not even ask you where you got this data. Just compare. The average salary in the Russian Federation is 30000 rubles. it is 6000 UAH. Despite the fact that the average salary in Ukraine is 2700 UAH. Despite the fact that I was on business trips more than once in the Russian Federation and I am well aware of both prices in Moscow and prices in smaller cities such as Novotroitsk. Product prices are almost the same. Gasoline is much cheaper. Income tax is 5% less. So what are you talking about here? What 2/3 of the population are starving?
                      Quote: Yarosvet
                      As now - only the roof has changed.

                      And who is it now? They go straight to the offices of companies and demand money.
                      Quote: Yarosvet
                      Now, as before, there is no certainty that they will not kill or imprison if someone suddenly decides to squeeze out the business, and the business remains mostly large - it is not racketeering.

                      Well, right, of course, they came to the owner of the store and said, we are all squeezing it from you. Have you reviewed the movies? You have never worked in a small business field. And what is the main business big? Walk along the street and see how many small business stalls, shops. Look at the newspaper and read how many offers there are for medium-sized businesses, different installations of plastic windows, their production, supply of bricks and generally building materials, different LLCs, go to the market and see how many private entrepreneurs (PE) and individual entrepreneurs (FLP) are there . You do not seem to understand the difference between small, medium and large businesses.
      2. New Russia
        New Russia 25 October 2013 15: 31 New
        +2
        "since you are so smart, tell us about your glorious deeds for the good of the fatherland." In his position, I would have done at least something, well, at least something good) Well, at least I did not introduce summer time) Well, I would not steal at least) I would not keep the Bilalov Dvorkovichs in the state and would not cover for the crime. Well, at least)

        "A person who respects himself will never make such statements."
        From the enemies of Russia, out of politeness I would not say that I am smarter than Chubais, for example. This one is really smart. But Medvedev is simply degenerate, so I still insist that he is smarter than him)))
        1. Averias
          Averias 25 October 2013 16: 04 New
          +2
          This is the whole snag. You are not in his place. Therefore, reasoning is so absurd.

          And also, you have a lot of "B".
        2. New Russia
          New Russia 25 October 2013 16: 28 New
          0
          "We" will be in his place soon)
        3. Averias
          Averias 25 October 2013 16: 47 New
          +1
          Well, good luck. I will be glad if the "helm" is taken by people whose words and deeds do not differ.

          Finally, and with ambition you would be more careful. And then they are right off scale hi
        4. El13
          El13 25 October 2013 17: 22 New
          +1
          Unfortunately, more often than not smart people come to power, but with ambitions, so there is a chance :))) Well, when they come, they do in many ways the same as their predecessors, because these are the conditions of the "regatta" :)))

          PS Like many others, it seems to me that Medvedev is doing stupid things, another question is why he does this and are there no other people around who would suggest? All this is strange, it looks like a diversionary move, because we are talking only about these "blunders". But his work is not only these "bloopers", but also a lot of other work that is not so noticeable.
  • Don
    Don 29 October 2013 16: 24 New
    0
    Quote: Yarosvet
    Let's better not become like those characters to whom you are assiduously assimilating - open the dictionary and see the meaning of the concept of "nationalization".

    Just imagine, I know the meaning of the word "nationalization" and what's next? All this has already been discussed a hundred times. The private owner is a better manager than the state. In all economically developed countries, 90% of heavy industry belongs to private corporations. Given that in the Russian Federation, a significant part of the oil and gas extraction industry and machine building belongs to the state.
    Quote: Yarosvet
    And here it is possible in more detail - what exactly has conceptually changed since 01.01.2000/31.12.1999/XNUMX compared to XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX, and what does the current leadership have to do with this?

    RF 6th world economy, reduction of inflation, decrease in unemployment, positive trade balance, decrease in the share of the population below the poverty line, decrease in unemployment, minimum external debt of the state (2,5% of GDP), budget revenues exceed its expenses, improvement of investment attractiveness, growth production. In this, do you think the merit of the current leadership? And then whom?
  • Don
    Don 29 October 2013 14: 14 New
    0
    Quote: New Russia
    In the country of a mess, 13 years is enough time to fix any mess, but they have no changes even in their plans.

    And what exactly is the mess? In your words, in my opinion.
    Quote: New Russia
    They are already openly carrying out all their dirty plans and Putin has ceased to be shy that there will be even more migrants, for example, did you think he had to say so? Medvedev forced ???

    What nonsense, where did he say that?
    Quote: New Russia
    education collapsed

    Yes, nobody ruined anything. Is it Putin's fault that a schoolboy or student cannot pass the exam? What can he not sit down for a textbook and learn at least something?
    Quote: New Russia
    As you say, I won’t, everyone knows about corruption, Serdyukov and others know.

    There is corruption in all countries, stop whining already.
    Quote: New Russia
    We don’t need an unnecessary base in Tajikistan, and for this they are a million killers of rapists and drug dealers, well, if the wise authorities decided it would be better, right?

    And why not billions, would have written billions. The vast majority of Tajiks who come to Russia to earn money work for a penny in the most dirty jobs, which not one resident of Moscow or St. Petersburg will want to go to. The base in Tajikistan is needed just for greater control on the Tajik-Afghan border. At least a little bit of geopolitics needs to be understood.
    Quote: New Russia
    "Giving out in the comments information taken from the media, the Internet, rumors, speculation for the realities." Yeah. Serdyukov and Chubais are honest people, there is no widespread corruption, no genocide.

    Before writing nonsense, we would read the meaning of the word genocide and think about what nonsense they wrote. Well, how can you read something, Putin doesn’t give, education is bad, it’s Putin's fault that reading is not a desire. In general, everything is fine with your head, what is writing? Chubais is not clear what is to blame, but Serdyukov is still under investigation. As for rampant corruption, it's generally funny for me to read. How do you imagine this? What would I need to go to college to give a bribe? If the traffic cop stops you drunk, you certainly don’t want to give a bribe. One talk with loud, unsubstantiated words.
    1. Don
      Don 29 October 2013 14: 16 New
      0
      Quote: New Russia
      The demographic crisis is not broken

      Again, at least read something, the population of the Russian Federation has been growing for the last three years.
      Quote: New Russia
      In 10 years, you can transform the country

      Only blind transformation does not see. Transformations in the economy, in the army, and in the standard of living. Read at least some numbers. The PRC took 30 years to reach the modern level, Japan 25-30, and you want what would happen in 13 years? Let's be more specific, not unfounded.
      Quote: New Russia
      They are killing on the streets, as in the 90s only earlier Russians were killing blacks.

      Complete nonsense. Then they shot and blew up, almost every day. And now isolated cases.
      Quote: New Russia
      Economics in a recession, education, RAS, medicine are crushed under Putin.

      And again, big words: crushed, disaster, horror. Enough to let the snot on the keyboard. Do you know the meaning of the word recession? And why should it not be when the crisis in the world? For your information, the recession is now in France, and in Spain, and in Italy. And when it was not there, why did you drive the economy anyway ?!
      Bottom line: Engage in self-education and read more, and not in general terms, without a single fact and figures write nonsense.
      PS
      Quote: New Russia
      And I think that I am much smarter than Medvedev!) Here I am so impudent. Yes, and Putin, too, is not credible for me to say the least, I have pride and self-esteem, concepts unfamiliar to you

      Come on. According to your children's comments, you consider yourself smarter than everyone. Putin is reckoned with and respected in the world. Millions of people vote for him. Your level of education (if you have one at all) does not reach you.
  • Standard Oil
    Standard Oil 25 October 2013 10: 06 New
    0
    The question is not that Russia sells oil or gas abroad and receives its green paper, but that the money received from the sale of resources goes into the pockets, simply stupid stuffing of pockets "sucking the pipe" goes, but for the development of health care and education , social infrastructure remains a trifle. Yeltsin did practically the same only robbed there openly, even leaving no crumbs to the people.
    1. Starfish
      Starfish 25 October 2013 10: 21 New
      +1
      .Yeltsin did almost as well only robbed there openly, even leaving no crumbs to the people.

      and they decided not to repeat his mistakes, but to share a little with the electorate. in this case, you can continue the old, but at the same time enjoy the love and respect of citizens. After all, people compare with the times ebn, when even the salary was stolen.
  • Migari
    Migari 25 October 2013 10: 24 New
    +4
    Until wild corruption and theft, in billions of dollars, stop restoring our production, we will be a raw materials appendage of both Europe and all of Asia. We live only at the expense of the natural wealth of Russia, owned by the people, but on which only oligarchs live.
  • lotar
    lotar 25 October 2013 10: 34 New
    +1
    Quote: Vadivak
    Quote: ....
    gloomy people wrote: Russia is about to turn into a raw materials appendage of the West. Did not come true.


    Um. With the entry into the WTO, several poultry farms went bankrupt here, before that, by the way, they were modernized. Poper the cheap goods from the WTO, only the cheap one before it hits the counter, as the 200-300% traders did and do so. It is clear who is driving this policy through the popularly elected

    Interestingly, on the contrary, the largest poultry farm in Russia was built in our Chelyabinsk region, approximately 10 billion was spent on the money. RUB. I strongly doubt that it was the entry into the WTO that was the reason for their bankruptcy.
  • ed65b
    ed65b 25 October 2013 10: 38 New
    0
    Somewhere I heard that the energy revolution is coming and oil and gas will lose relevance and they say Russia needs to be sold as much as possible. Maybe fantasies?
  • Yarosvet
    Yarosvet 25 October 2013 10: 39 New
    +3
    << A large-scale, without any exaggeration, an unprecedented contract with Rosneft has been prepared, deliveries to China are expected in volumes that are calculated from more than hundreds of millions of tons of oil, and all this in dollar terms - more than $ 60 billion. >> Vladimir Putin 20.06.13/XNUMX/XNUMX

    Hundreds of millions is a minimum of 200 million tons of oil for $ 60 billion.

    In a ton - 6.25 barrels.

    Total:

    At best, oil will be sold to China at $ 48 a barrel.
    If it was a matter of deliveries of, say, 500 million tons of oil, then at 19.2 dollars per barrel.
  • Ivan Petrovich
    Ivan Petrovich 25 October 2013 10: 48 New
    +6
    and what do we have?
    1. Yarosvet
      Yarosvet 25 October 2013 11: 41 New
      +2
      Quote: Ivan Petrovich
      and what do we have?
  • VI Kacheev
    VI Kacheev 25 October 2013 10: 59 New
    +6
    Quote: Averias
    IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO RISE A COUNTRY FROM THE "RUINS" WITHOUT STRENGTHENING IT EXTERNALLY.

    And it’s like, if you figuratively imagine: KNEELS BEND IN THE BACK TO DYSTROPHY, but exhibit wooden planks made of round timber sold to China ?!
    Maybe it’s better to get rid of dystrophy ?!
    It's one thing to type electronic signs-letters on the keyboard about the greatness of the country, and another thing to hear from the Chinese with whom you are starting negotiations, the following: “Everyone in China knows that Russia is only oil and gas! You saw that on our roads with multilevel junctions NO CARS FROM RUSSIA. But twenty years ago there were cars from the USSR. "I will tell you, shy that an unpleasant sense of humiliation experienced !!! But such is the harsh homespun truth - seeing Beijing with its roads.
    Two of our troubles are known - roads and ruling Muscovites fools!
    1. ivshubarin
      ivshubarin 25 October 2013 11: 34 New
      +1
      There are two more troubles - they drink and steal
      1. ivshubarin
        ivshubarin 25 October 2013 16: 17 New
        0
        If in 100 years I am asked what they do in Russia "Drink and steal": Saltykov-Shchedrin
  • stalker
    stalker 25 October 2013 11: 21 New
    -1
    Being someone’s raw materials appendage is certainly bad, it’s another matter if the earned money on the sale of natural resources of which we still have a lot to invest in the right direction (strengthening the country's defense capability, developing infrastructure, modernizing enterprises, the economy, etc.) because if it’s not to do, especially the first, they will come and want to take everything for nothing.
    1. nikcris
      nikcris 25 October 2013 13: 21 New
      +1
      And who is not a raw material appendage? Poland sells only fried potatoes and pork in the form of sausage and barbecue? Do Norway and Canada sell canned gas and gasoline for Zippo lighters? Does the USA sell not grain, but buns, porridge in bags or, at worst, mixed feed? Etc.
      What is Russian titanium - aluminum in pigs and a base oil more raw than Australian kenguryatina, New Zealand oil, Icelandic fish?
      1. Yarosvet
        Yarosvet 25 October 2013 13: 58 New
        +2
        Quote: nikcris
        What is Russian titanium - aluminum in pigs and a base oil more raw than Australian kenguryatina, New Zealand oil, Icelandic fish?
        Depth of processing.

        Then: a raw material or oil needle is not a trade in raw materials - it is a trade ONLY in raw materials.
        1. nikcris
          nikcris 25 October 2013 14: 13 New
          +2
          Is the depth of processing lamb-kangarine carcasses higher and more technologically advanced than the production of titanium pigs? Catching fish, milk separation - know-how?
          Are you suggesting that the Russians urgently flood the world with kettles, fishing rods, colander and other "end" products of deep processing of oil, wood, iron ore? Are you ready to stand behind the conveyor for a dozen hours a day for a bowl of barley? No? Then rejoice in the availability of raw materials in Russia.
          1. Yarosvet
            Yarosvet 25 October 2013 14: 48 New
            +1
            Quote: nikcris
            Is the depth of processing lamb-kangarine carcasses higher and more technologically advanced than the production of titanium pigs? Catching fish, milk separation - know-how?
            In a sense, track the entire process from production to the consumer.

            Are you suggesting that the Russians urgently flood the world with kettles, fishing rods, colander and other "end" products of deep processing of oil, wood, iron ore?
            I propose to provide at least the Russian Federation with this.

            Are you ready to get off the assembly line for a dozen hours a day for a pearl barley?
            You, in order not to ask stupid questions, should read the TC and the Constitution.
  • ivshubarin
    ivshubarin 25 October 2013 11: 23 New
    0
    It seems that Putin does not go into the economy, and Medvedev into politics. Spheres of influence were divided. But considering who their advisers are, there won’t be any good
  • Yuri Y.
    Yuri Y. 25 October 2013 11: 29 New
    0
    Well, I think you will not sit hungry on bags of gold, even if it is black and in barrels. There would still be contrived and throw a pipe to India, but this is still from the realm of fiction. Here, as with any trade, you need to bargain. I am more worried that the payment is apparently in dollars, and China has nowhere to put it. Again put in an American stocking, without using funds in their economy. Although it seems there was some kind of agreement with China on mutual settlements in the nat. currencies, you need to look for ways to spend money on your own (well, at least on the same infrastructure).
  • VI Kacheev
    VI Kacheev 25 October 2013 11: 37 New
    +2
    Quote: stalker
    Being someone’s raw materials appendage is certainly bad, it’s another matter if the earned money on the sale of natural resources of which we still have a lot to invest in the right direction (strengthening the country's defense capability, developing infrastructure, modernizing enterprises, the economy, etc.) because if it’s not to do, especially the first, they will come and want to take everything for nothing.

    Quote: Yuri I.
    Although it seems there was some kind of agreement with China on mutual settlements in the nat. currencies, you need to look for ways to spend money on your own (well, at least on the same infrastructure).

    Link: http://svpressa.ru/economy/article/76371/
    "Robbery with prepayment" - I highly recommend reading!
    1. stalker
      stalker 26 October 2013 00: 15 New
      0
      you don’t need to believe everything that is written on the Internet, as they say, wait and see, another thing for which you put me minus?
  • ivshubarin
    ivshubarin 25 October 2013 11: 43 New
    0
    Is Medvedev sober in the photo?
  • Shep
    Shep 25 October 2013 13: 50 New
    +2
    Quote: zvereok
    Medvedev has a downside.

    )))))) +1
  • nikcris
    nikcris 25 October 2013 14: 26 New
    0
    Quote: VI Kacheev
    Quote: Averias
    IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO RISE A COUNTRY FROM THE "RUINS" WITHOUT STRENGTHENING IT EXTERNALLY.

    And it’s like, if you figuratively imagine: KNEELS BEND IN THE BACK TO DYSTROPHY, but exhibit wooden planks made of round timber sold to China ?!
    Maybe it’s better to get rid of dystrophy ?!
    It's one thing to type electronic signs-letters on the keyboard about the greatness of the country, and another thing to hear from the Chinese with whom you are starting negotiations, the following: “Everyone in China knows that Russia is only oil and gas! You saw that on our roads with multilevel junctions NO CARS FROM RUSSIA. But twenty years ago there were cars from the USSR. "I will tell you, shy that an unpleasant sense of humiliation experienced !!! But such is the harsh homespun truth - seeing Beijing with its roads.
    Two of our troubles are known - roads and ruling Muscovites fools!

    For a minute, Russia is ALL armament of China. Bought or stolen. Their cosmos.
    PS In China, draconian duties on the import of cars from abroad. There are practically no Japanese-German cars there. In your opinion, the conclusion from this DB is that the Chinese cars are Forever !!! fellow
    1. ivshubarin
      ivshubarin 25 October 2013 15: 30 New
      0
      The Germans and Japanese have many car factories in China.
  • Grishka100watt
    Grishka100watt 25 October 2013 14: 54 New
    0
    For Russia, it is much better and safer to sell raw materials to both the West and the East.
    The ability to sell raw materials to China is an opportunity to significantly reduce dependence on Europe and the United States. In economic and political terms (this, at least, means that Europe and the United States will not be able to drop the Russian economy through oil).
    Commodity prices will be set by Russia and China, and will be paid in rubles and RMB (I do not know how it is now, but the prospect is designed for that).
    So do not cry. Some cry that we sell raw materials to the Chinese, others - that we sell high-tech products. Just to poke, in general.
  • ko88
    ko88 25 October 2013 15: 34 New
    +1
    I don’t know what difference it makes to whom to sell raw materials! the main thing is income.
  • smprofi
    smprofi 25 October 2013 16: 56 New
    0
    No matter how Russia wants to sell something other than hydrocarbons or other natural resources, these proposals of the Middle Kingdom are of little interest.

    what are you saying!
    try to find any differences besides the identification marks:





    not only do they dig ideas and produce weapons without a license, they also cross the road with counterfeit weapons on the market. the Hunhuz first slammed the S-300 and released under their name HQ-9 (export designation - FD-2000), and now they have crossed the road to Russia when Turkey announced the acquisition of air defense systems.
  • VI Kacheev
    VI Kacheev 25 October 2013 18: 05 New
    +6
    Quote: Grishka100watt
    For Russia, it is much better and safer to sell raw materials to both the West and the East.

    Quote: ivshubarin
    For a minute, Russia is ALL armament of China. Bought or stolen. Their cosmos.

    But space in the USSR began with an FAA rocket developed by G. von Braun — didn’t they forget about it? The Chinese are doing the same as other countries - carrying out technical espionage - that's all! There is nothing wrong with that! But to sell to the west and east PREFERREDLY RAW MATERIALS - SHAME for Russia, allegedly the heiress of the USSR !!!
  • Bashkaus
    Bashkaus 25 October 2013 18: 29 New
    -2
    I fundamentally disagree. If Russia does not have nuclear and genetic weapons, then yes, Russia is a raw materials appendage of Kaitai. But the fact is that Russia has a lot of nuclear weapons, so the above judgment is not true!
    It is correct to say that China is a commodity-producing appendage of Russia.
    And just do the name smiled, 15 years ago, every first liberal yelled that Russia is a raw material appendage of the West, and we are so stupid and educated that we only know how to tax, we bought, you understand, old, rusty, 20-year-old alliances and bomb by throwing amers and all other "people" into orbit ...
    1. Yarosvet
      Yarosvet 25 October 2013 19: 11 New
      +1
      Quote: Bashkaus
      If Russia does not have nuclear and genetic weapons, then yes, Russia is a raw materials appendage of Kaitai. But the fact is that Russia has a lot of nuclear weapons, so the above judgment is not true!

      Economically, not politically.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • GUSAR
    GUSAR 25 October 2013 21: 23 New
    +3
    Medvedev, Medvedev, and another cupcake like nothing to do with it ...
  • Vlad_Mir
    Vlad_Mir 25 October 2013 21: 35 New
    0
    It's time to stop suffering inferiority complexes! The extraction, transportation and sale of raw materials and energy is difficult. tech business! Not only Russia is engaged in this, but it does not occur to anyone to suffer because of this! Gas and oil should be perceived as a gift from the Gods to this people! But the gods clearly want something else! Due to the raw material programs it is necessary to develop science, technology, production, education!
  • kim. 230752
    kim. 230752 25 October 2013 21: 58 New
    +2
    The Chinese are very cunning; they know about our economic helplessness and that oil and gas exports are the backbone of Russia's budget. They SPECIALLY take Russia on the hook, developing their import of hydrocarbons from Russia. And we have nowhere to go, because. exports to Europe are falling. And we are developing production, building pipelines and refineries, gas liquefaction plants in the Far East. The time will come - and China will take all this away from Russia! Now the Chinese are rubbing their hands, watching how we build all the necessary infrastructure for them there. The PRC is many times ahead of the Russian Federation in tanks, aircraft, and there is no need to talk about manpower. Russia does not even have the ability to quickly transfer its troops there, tk. the transmission capacity of the Transsib is very limited. And in case of war, the "Chinese workers" will blow it up in several places at once. There is only one effective weapon against China - nuclear weapons. But we will not apply it, because a retaliatory strike by the PRC's nuclear forces will destroy Russia. After all, the Russian Federation, in contrast to the PRC, where all large and small cities have a developed system of anti-nuclear shelters, has nothing anywhere (except maybe Moscow). Careerists in the top military leadership know all this, but, fearing for their well-being, objectively and sharply the question is not raised before the president. Well, Medvedev D.A. is just a talking zero. One hope is not to live to see this tragedy of Russia.
  • SkyMaXX
    SkyMaXX 25 October 2013 23: 43 New
    +1
    China is now for us in every sense the best friend and best partner. I see no reason to troll him.
  • intsurfer
    intsurfer 26 October 2013 09: 03 New
    0
    Quote: SHILO
    And why are there no articles titled: "Russia as a raw material appendage of Europe"? request

    because Europe pays more for resources than China. IMHO is a payment for the fact that Russia is a buffer between them and China. Just google about doing business in China - there are many interesting articles to help you understand what's going on. The general meaning is as follows - if the counterparty is weak and powerless, then it is not shameful and even practically necessary to "throw" him. You never know what is written in the contract ...
    1. VI Kacheev
      VI Kacheev 26 October 2013 09: 29 New
      0
      In this transaction, China makes an advance payment for products that will be delivered later, i.e. China gives a loan. He risks and has the right to receive a benefit - the economic benefit of the transaction - a lower price. If you noticed, then liberals openly say that Siberia HAVE TO GIVE China! Uncle Zyu even "jumped out of his pants", calling for the development of a law on criminal liability for calling for the division of Russia. In such a situation, Russia can be the first to "throw" - they took the money, and deliver oil "FORGOT"... China, referring to this "kidok", occupies Siberia, and the "liberals" rejoice! China is also not offended - it also acquired other resources for a meager advance payment - ALL SATISFIED !!!
  • Uhe
    Uhe 27 October 2013 23: 34 New
    0
    Russia has long been not only a raw materials appendage of the West, but also its colony with external governance (the priority of international laws over domestic ones, participation in supranational structures like the WTO, IMF, etc.). The West has shown that it does not even need such a Russia, but that it needs a directly seized space without any intermediaries in the form of the Russian government and other parasites. I had to reconfigure to China, but in the same direction. And China has neither friends nor allies, there are only those who voluntarily serve China and creep at its greatness, and enemies of China. That's all.
  • Ols76
    Ols76 28 October 2013 00: 54 New
    0
    According to InoTV, at a meeting with reporters Li Keqiang, touching upon the intended goal of increasing the trade turnover of Russia and China to $ 2015 billion by 100, stressed that “I would like not to stop at $ 100 billion, and increase it to 200 billion dollars, and up to 300 billion dollars. "

    What is stopping right now?
  • Sergey74
    Sergey74 28 October 2013 03: 15 New
    0
    We are a northern country, so we have been selling raw materials flax, hemp, furs, timber, then oil, gas, metal throughout the history of the country. In our country, producing large quantities of consumer goods is not profitable as it is more expensive than in China and in southern countries. We mainly produce only what we really need. It was necessary to defend — we produce weapons, we had to study the north — we built icebreakers, we needed cheap electricity — we built hydroelectric power stations and nuclear power plants. We need to produce gas, we are building platforms in the north.
  • Ihrek
    Ihrek 28 October 2013 09: 12 New
    0
    In vain you are so bad about Medvedev. I am convinced that he loves Russia and he is her real patriot. What can not be said about many of our fellow citizens. And if that he does not succeed then there is not only his fault.