China continues to build the first Bison

A photo appeared in the Chinese Internet at a shipyard in Southern China, where the Zubr-type landing craft (DKVP) is going to be assembled, reports mil.news.cina.com on October October 22.

The shipyard is also building frigates Type 056, a hydrographic catamaran ship and other ships. The photo shows that the third fan of the power plant is mounted on the Zubr. Currently, Ukraine has already delivered the first ship of this type to China.

2 July 2009, the Ministry of National Defense of China signed a contract with the Ukrainian export company Ukrspetsexport for the purchase of four ships of this type. In accordance with the contract, the Feodosia shipyard “More” should supply two “Bison”, the other two will be assembled in China using Ukrainian units and components. China received full technical documentation and assistance of Ukrainian specialists. Ships are used to transport military equipment and the landing of troops on the coast of the enemy, can provide fire support and install mines.

Comments

[svp67]

China continues to build the first Bison

Yes, so that it collapsed from vibration and stress ... How long can you live with "plagiarism" and not really pay for it?

[Lopatov]

This is not plagiarism. They honestly bought the documentation

[svp67]

Quote: Spade

They honestly bought the documentation

Who? Ukrainians ...

The newspaper of the Ministry of Defense emphasizes: Russia has no reason to worry about the transfer of documentation for the landing ship to China, as Kiev will transmit the characteristics of the “Zubr” not produced in Russia, but of a “Ukrainian-designed” ship: “As for the ban on the part of Russia to transfer technical documentation to small Since the Zubr hovercraft is airborne, in our case it does not play a role with the Chinese order. After all, representatives of FGC “Sea” indicate: with China, the contract for the construction of not the Bison, but the Ukrainian-developed MDKVP - project 958 was signed.

TsKMB "Almaz" - the developer has not received a single kopeck, although this ship is almost exactly the same as "Bison" ...

And here is an interesting message from one of the forums on this matter, from the "Ukrainian side"

And by the way, they are satisfied at the plant, they say, Russia easily sold rolled sheets AMG with stiffening ribs, without which it is impossible to build a body. In Ukraine they are not made. What do you think? As always? It remains to sell them a skirt (they also do not do it in Ukraine), and then be surprised at the number of Chinese Bison clones spreading around the world.

[svp67]

Quote: Spade

This is not plagiarism.

Rosoboronexport considers the sale by Ukraine to China of technical documentation for the Zubr air-cushion landing craft illegal. This was announced on July 1 at the 5th International Maritime Defense Show IMDS-2011 by the head of the Rosoboronekesport company delegation Oleg Azizov, ARMS-TASS agency reports.
Answering the question about the situation with the transfer of the technical documentation by the Ukrainian side to China for the small DKVP "Zubr", created in the Central Marine Design Bureau "Almaz", the head of the delegation of "Rosoboronexport" noted that the company had been negotiating with China for the sale of "Bison" for a long time, but did not come out to sign the contract. In turn, Ukraine signed an agreement with China, within the framework of which it handed over to the Chinese side the technical documentation it had for the construction of the Zubrov, which is a violation of the agreement on intellectual property.

[Kars]

Quote: svp67

Rosoboronexport considers the sale by Ukraine illegal

you never know what anyone believes) filed a lawsuit? won?

[svp67]

Quote: Kars

you never know what anyone believes) filed a lawsuit? won?

Let's see how you will "sing" when planes "very similar" to the An70 go into the sky from our factories ... but "of a completely different project" ...

[Kars]

Quote: svp67

Let's see how you "sing" when

And what is the use of singing? In court. And there’s what will get there. You’ll only do the AN-70 vryatli. In the best case, you will torture IL-76.

[svp67]

Quote: Kars

That's just vryatli you make the AN-70.

Do not even doubt it - we can, but you are not ... There is no possibility in Ukraine to independently produce this aircraft. And do not flatter yourself, no one will help you with this ... since besides Russia and Ukraine, no one needs this plane. Easier to release your own.

[Kars]

Quote: svp67

Do not even doubt it - we can

I will be doubtful.

Quote: svp67

but you are not

vryatli themselves. but maybe the investor is still there.

Quote: svp67

. There are no opportunities in Ukraine to independently produce this aircraft.

why? only the will of the leadership is lacking. everyone is waiting for something naive with Russia so far.

Quote: svp67

And do not flatter yourself, no one will help you with this ... since besides Russia

You can see how Russia helps - how old is the cart and not there.

Quote: svp67

nobody needs this plane.

if you didn’t bother with you and decided to do it yourself (it’s a pity that money was easier to steal at EURO 2012 than to invest in aircraft manufacturing), then the AN-70 would fly to India for a long time.
They would have hid the Indians who are repairing their AN-32 in Ukraine, would have stood when the serial AN-70 was on the same acceptance site.

[svp67]

Quote: Kars

You can see how Russia helps - how old is the cart and not there.

How did Russia break its promises? Our country paid for EVERYTHING it promised - what is your contribution? Where is the "promised" and most importantly "paid" for the finished aircraft by Russia?
Such behavior is colloquially called "kidalovo" ...

[Kars]

Kiva noted that the history of the implementation of the An-70 is sad and goes around in circles, depending on the political situation. At the same time, the aviator recalled that in the early 90s, an agreement was signed on the implementation of this project by the prime ministers Viktor Chernomyrdin and Leonid Kui. Later, in 2006, at the initiative of the Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Air Force, the Russian side withdrew from the project and returned to its implementation in 2009.

Quote: svp67

Where is the "promised" and most importantly "paid" for the finished aircraft by Russia?

where are the checks?

[svp67]

Quote: Kars

where are the checks?

In vain you are so ... the time will come and "pay all the checks" ... And this is not a threat, this is a historical reality ...

[Corsair]

Quote: Kars

where are the checks?

Want to "pay the bills"?
That's just a snag, the solvency of the state of Ukraine will allow?

[Corsair]

Quote: Kars

where are the checks?

Typical statement of a thief accountant ...

Or is there a desire to "pay the bills"?
That's just a snag, the solvency of the state of Ukraine will allow?

[Sotnik77s]

Throwing and betraying, this is now the softest thing that can be said about the behavior of the "partners" than they just haven't with us lately ... it seems that they are simply trying to harm us as much as possible by selling our technology, in general, having nothing to do with it, they are destroying themselves, they will simply disappear as a state entity, although this is a rather bold statement, it’s already surprising, but soon the end of this is near traitor-criminal Yanukovych, by the way they write, he was in prison for robbery and banditry, in both!

[svp67]

Quote: Kars

then the AN-70 would have flown in India for a long time

Your country, today can not produce large and basic parts An70 ...

it is believed that the market potential for sales of the An-70 aircraft is very high: Asia - 54-57 aircraft, Africa - 15-23; Latin America - 8, Ukraine and Russia - 70-100.

[Anthony]

Quote: svp67

Your country, today can not produce large and basic parts An70 ...

So you can’t even do that ... IL-76 is an old car, but you have no new developments ... But Antonov’s model range is updated almost every year, the An-70 is new. At least newer than IL.

[svp67]

Quote: Kars

They would have hid the Indians who are repairing their AN-32 in Ukraine, would have survived when the serial AN-70

"Serial" - ha, ha ... Experienced, I agree ... And then everything ... We'll have to sell again to China, at least "return some pennies ...."

[Kars]

Quote: svp67

Your country, today can not produce large and basic parts An70

It can’t be PRINCIPLE? Are you sure? Maybe if you give money it will do it?

Quote: svp67

It is believed that the market potential for sales of the An-70

And he was high until the A-400 Europeans finished.

Quote: svp67

"Serial" - ha, ha ... Experienced, I agree ..

Well, once Ukraine could finance the construction of 5 aircraft, such as for the Ukrainian Air Force, and if interested, they could be the first to sell them.

Quote: svp67

..Will have to sell to China again, at least "return some pennies ...."

It is quite possible. Motor Sichi will definitely profit.

Quote: svp67

In vain you are so ... the time will come and "pay all the checks"

Why pull it? If you are in your right and have all the documents, then what are the problems?

[svp67]

Quote: Kars

Maybe if you give money then it will do?

If you give, then who will not do ... It remains only to take them.

Quote: Kars

And he was high until the A-400 Europeans finished.

Well, you yourself know your "funeral" ...

Quote: Kars

Why pull it? If you are in your right and have all the documents, then what are the problems?

I think that soon Yanukovych, the GDP will show everything ... in person.

[Kars]

Quote: svp67

It remains only to take them.

Maybe she’ll be lucky. And there is an investor who will be interested in business, not political ambition.

Quote: svp67

Well, you yourself know your "funeral" ...

Yes, and still mumbles. There’s nothing to say. We don’t do everything. And then there are 12 conferences on cooperation in the aircraft industry.

Quote: svp67

I think that soon Yanukovych, the GDP will show everything ... in person.

How many of these personal meetings have already happened. And Yanyk is not Timokha, who, when signing the gas contracts, was pressed by fraud with the Russian Ministry of Defense.

[svp67]

Quote: Kars

How many of these personal meetings have already happened. And Yanyk is not Timokha, who, when signing the gas contracts, was pressed by fraud with the Russian Ministry of Defense.

It remains to wait ...

Earlier, it was assumed that the meeting between Viktor Yanukovych and Vladimir Putin will take place on December 18, but then the leaders of the two states agreed to postpone the meeting. Since the presidents of Russia and Ukraine were going to pay attention to rather important issues, a mutual decision was made to hold additional consultations with experts for the successful implementation of the agreements between the parties.
As far as we know, the Russian side initiated the postponement of the meeting.
Since then, it remains unknown when the meeting of the two leaders will take place.

As I understand it, "a lot of work" is underway on our part and we will have something to offer ... I really hope that we will AGREEMENT and stay TOGETHER.

[Kars]

Quote: svp67

that we AGREE and will stay TOGETHER.

We’ll stay? Do you think that NOW TOGETHER?

As for the agreement, it’s quite possible. But it won’t be cheap for you. The second time, Yanyk will not get in with the Kharkiv agreements.

or maybe not a contract. how many of these meetings have already been.

[svp67]

Quote: Kars

. The second time, Yanyk will not get in like with the Kharkov agreements.

On April 21, 2010, important negotiations were held between Viktor Yanukovych and Dmitry Medvedev on a wide range of issues in Ukrainian-Russian relations, including political interaction, the economy, and humanitarian issues. The main results were agreements on the Black Sea Fleet’s presence in Ukraine and a reduction in the price of Russian gas for Ukraine by 30%, but not more than $ 100 per thousand cubic meters.
Clause 2009 is removed from the 6.6 gas contract, which provided for penalties for Ukraine if it purchased gas 6% less than the monthly supply.

IN HARM Ukraine ...

The agreement also provides for an increase in rents for the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation in Ukraine, which starting from May 28, 2017 will consist of payments by Russia in the amount of $ 100 million. for a year and additional funds that are received due to the reduction from the date of entry into force of the agreement the price of natural gas, which is supplied by the Russian side to Ukraine.

IN HARM ...
How are you so "LIP"?

[svp67]

People’s Deputy of Ukraine Arseniy Yatsenyuk (OU-PSD faction) believes that the Kharkiv agreements are “the restoration of market relations between Ukraine and Russia.”

All HARM ...

[Kars]

Quote: svp67

Az for Ukraine is 30%, but not more than $ 100 per thousand cubic meters.

You know this as a discount in a boutique. Before the sale, the price is $ 500; during the sale, 650 is crossed out and they write 550))) and according to the agreement, not everything goes smoothly at a discount.

Quote: svp67

Clause 2009 is removed from the 6.6 gas contract, which provided for penalties for Ukraine,

And then what does Gazprom tell tales about fines from 7 billion to 10?

Quote: svp67

will consist of payments by Russia in the amount of $ 100 million. for a year and additional funds that are received due to the reduction from the date of entry into force of the agreement the price of natural gas, which is supplied by the Russian side to Ukraine.

For Sevastopol? And Crimean land? At the same time, the amount of gas was overestimated, now they are buying less, which means they pay less for Sevastopol.

Quote: svp67

Yatsenyuk

I can’t stand this bespectacled man.

Quote: svp67

How are you so "LIP"?

The GP (our Finnish director) would contract this contract and the legal department - you yourself would have fled to Novorossiysk in a couple of years.

[svp67]

Quote: Kars

You know this as a discount in a boutique. Before the sale, the price is $ 500; during the sale, 650 is crossed out and they write 550))) and according to the agreement, not everything goes smoothly at a discount.

Do you have signatures of your representatives? It means that at that moment everything suited you, and then "you saw the light ...". This is "Kindergarten", there is no need to look for the "enemy" on the side, in YOUR fault.

[svp67]

Quote: Kars

For Sevastopol? And Crimean land?

Payment for the possibility of the deployment of forces and assets of the Russian Black Sea Fleet in Ukraine. Are you ready to sell Sevastopol and Crimea? I think there is a buyer ...

[Kars]

Quote: svp67

Are you ready to sell Sevastopol and Crimea?

Actually I'm talking about renting. It's never too late to sell.

Quote: svp67

I think there is a buyer ..

Naturally, only through an auction.
And all residents have money to move or citizenship guarantees.

Quote: svp67

Are your representatives signatures?

Quote: Kars

the second time, Yanyk will not stick in as with the Kharkov agreements.

[svp67]

Quote: Kars

Are your representatives signatures?

The main argument is "... and where my eyes were amazed"

[Kars]

Quote: svp67

The main argument is "... and where my eyes were amazed"

Who knows what Medveputy promised him at personal meetings? Maybe a revision of the gas contract, maybe something else. Yanyk also closed the committees for joining NATO. But then I realized give a finger, they’ll bite off a hand on my elbow.

Quote: svp67

.і kudi my eyes wondered "

Quote: Kars

the second time, Yanyk will not stick in as with the Kharkov agreements.

[svp67]

Quote: Kars

Who knows what Medveputy promised him in person?

Well, the time for "LADIES" is already coming to an end, "Sinicura" is already being prepared for him (follow closely http://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=1102916)

[Kars]

Quote: svp67

Well time is "LADY"

for me there is no DAMA
Yes
Medveput or Putomed

[Corsair]

Quote: Kars

Actually I'm talking about renting. It's never too late to sell.

State lands squandering, offal offspring?

[svp67]

Quote: Kars

The GP (our Finnish director) would contract this contract and the legal department - you yourself would have fled to Novorossiysk in a couple of years.

I really hope that there will be no such "craftsmen" on our side ...

[SV]

Japan mother, the feeling that a Latvian politician writes to the brain and bones soaked with Russophobia

[Corsair]

Quote: svp67

I really hope that we AGREE and stay TOGETHER.

"Leave Hope Everyone Entering Here" - not worth it in the comments Kars try to consider something human, he ENEMY, and it’s extremely insidious and unfortunately literate, spiteful and unbalanced ...

[Kars]

Quote: Corsair

He is an ENEMY, and he is extremely insidious and unfortunately literate, spiteful and unbalanced ...

Enemy. But only like you.

[Corsair]

Quote: Kars

Enemy. But only like you.

"I'll get better" a little (so that there are no insinuations) ENEMY IDEOLOGICAL, as a person and a techie, a lover of the history of armored vehicles, I can even treat you kindly.
But disagreeing in ideology, I will "pinch" on all differences of views ...

[Kars]

Quote: Corsair

I can even treat you kindly.

Do not strain yourself so.

Quote: Corsair

But disagreeing in ideology, I will "pinch" on all differences of views ...

A.chef everything is prapalo. The person with the mental abilities of the plant announces to me vendetta)

[Corsair]

Quote: Kars

And Yanyk is not Timokha, who, when signing the gas contracts, was pressed by fraud with the Russian Ministry of Defense.

Yanukovych is even "shallower", with his "baggage" ...
I hope EVERYONE understands WHAT we are talking about, what "feats" ...

[svp67]

Quote: Kars

It is quite possible. Motor Sichi will definitely profit.

Easy consolation ...

Quote: Kars

A-400

But still more beautiful, especially in such a "raskras" ...

[Kars]

Quote: svp67

Easy consolation

At least something.

Quote: svp67

Quote: Kars
A-400

expensive.

[velikoros-xnumx]

I will repeat what I said earlier in the discussions on the An-70

Quote: wlad59
"... and leaving Ukraine to go to geyrop, pick up all the documentation and move production to Russia, for example, to Ulyanovsk." - dream, dream! AN-70 is a JOINT project
velikoros-88:
And you don’t really need to dream:
firstly, the project was started while the USSR was still alive, and Russia, as its successor, has the right to the intellectual property of the USSR (correct if I am mistaken)
secondly, in joint work on development, Russia's financial contribution is more than 50% (there is a "controlling" stake)
thirdly, in terms of division, Russia had a similar situation with the exact opposite on the Yak-130. At the final stage, the track-tracks parted with the Italian company Aermacchi, and she, having received full documentation for the glider, independently completed its version (in fact, a clone that differs in engines and avionics).
fourthly, no one canceled the "Chinese" option of action, and in this situation it will not be theft of intellectual property in its pure form (to a large extent, this is our project)
So there you go!

Quote: wlad59
The agreement was signed on June 24, 1993 (there was no USSR anymore)
velikoros-88:
I think you're wrong
The history of the An-70, 15 years from the day of its first flight turned 16 December this year, began a long time ago - back in 1965 - 11 years before the development of the “seventies” itself. Then Oleg Konstantinovich Antonov proposed the project An-12СН (СН - special purpose) for transportation of the T-54 medium tank, but it remained on paper. Around the same time, a draft of an eight-engine (!) Military transport aircraft of shortened take-off and landing of the An-40 with 4 AI-30 turboprop engines and 4 RD-36-35 turbojet boost engines was also being developed, but it also suffered the same fate . However, after a while they returned to the idea - in 1976, the approval of the tactical and technical specifications for the project, which received the An-70 code, began. And in 1986, the full-scale development of a new aircraft began.

http://www.airforce.ru/content/okb-antonova/58-70-vzlet-i-padenie/
I certainly understand that Wikipedia is not the most reliable source, but nonetheless:
The design of the aircraft was started in 1978 [

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C0%ED-70
If there is an opportunity to show other information from more reliable sources, as they say are always happy.

[Serg 122]

Yeah, the inscriptions in Ukrainian will be ...

[self-propelled]

Quote: svp67

How long can you live with "plagiarism" and not really pay for it?

plagiarism, of course, is an ignoble thing, but ... for the most part, the Chinese "put the device" on all these charges of illegal copying. systematically and on a large scale build up the military (and not only) power of their state

[ivshubarin]

This is not the Chinese method, under Stalin, our engineers also copied a lot and put on everyone

[self-propelled]

so no one says that slamming with a neighbor and building at home is Chinese know-how. just the scale is amazing. although if such plagiarism benefits your country, then why not

[alone]

Quote: self-propelled

so no one says that slamming with a neighbor and building at home is Chinese know-how. just the scale is amazing. although if such plagiarism benefits your country, then why not

nothing strange. The people and the government are working for the good of their country. And they do not give a damn about everything. The main thing is that I need to China.

[ivshubarin]

This is not the Chinese method, under Stalin, our engineers also copied a lot and put on everyone

[Vladimirets]

And no one is whining, which they say they could do better themselves. They buy, study, rip off technologies and developments.

[domokl]

At least in such a way to survive bad times. There is a chance to preserve the scientific and engineering potential of shipbuilders. The Chinese have correctly adhered to it. We need to grab everything that is possible while there is an opportunity.
Urgent need to build something for yourself ...

[Andrey Yuryevich]

In accordance with the contract, the Feodosia shipyard "More" is to supply two "Bison", the other two will be assembled in China using Ukrainian units and components. China has received full technical documentation -Here are the keywords! So in the end there will be not 4 but at least 40. Their efficiency in copying is amazing.

[Kars]

Quote: Andrey Yurievich

The sea "should supply two" Bison ", the other two will be assembled in China using Ukrainian units and components.

The French signed about the same contract with the Russian Federation on the Mistrals.

Quote: Andrey Yurievich

and at least 40

It would be nice to get licensed from each, and even sell parts and components to them.

[Andrey Yuryevich]

and don’t even think! The rest will be with a changed shape of the rudders, and the propellers are painted in a different color - that is, a fundamentally different model! what are licensed ???

[Kars]

Quote: Andrey Yurievich

and don’t even think! The rest will be with a modified steering wheel shape

Yes, of course. Something they bought tank diesel engines as they buy in Kharkov. And then there is such a nomenclature of spare parts. Including engines.

[Misantrop]

Moreover, quite a lot of specialists from this long-suffering Sea shipyard are now working at this shipyard under 5-year contracts. I know some of them. So it's unlikely that their products will fall apart on tests ...

[Akim]

Quote: Misantrop

quite a lot of specialists from this long-suffering Sea plant are working at this shipyard now under 5-year contracts.

And from scratch, the aircraft carriers that they build themselves. There are Nikolaev shipbuilders.

[Misantrop]

Quote: Akim

There are Nikolaev shipbuilders.

Yes, and almost everyone who at the time of the purchase of the unfinished was highly qualified and agreed to go

[Akim]

Quote: Misantrop

Yes, and almost everyone who at the time of purchase of that unfinished

I'm talking about unfinished, but about the new two aircraft carriers.

[old man54]

Quote: Akim

Quote: Misantrop

quite a lot of specialists from this long-suffering Sea plant are working at this shipyard now under 5-year contracts.

And from scratch, the aircraft carriers that they build themselves. There are Nikolaev shipbuilders.

and someone in June argued with me on this topic, about Chinese AB, do not remember this? I remember! and you proved to me that China itself is their ... oh people!

[Akim]

Quote: old man54

and you proved to me that China itself is their ... oh people!

So they themselves build. Nikolaevsk experts only advise them. There are about two dozen of them there.

[morpogr]

Soon after, after Ukraine has signed an agreement with the EU, China will receive on the cheap not only documentation but also factories with all personnel.

[Kars]

Quote: morpogr

agreement with eu china

Yes, and can you somehow connect the association agreement with the EU and China? And why now China can’t get

Quote: morpogr

tion but also factories with all personnel.

?

[Silkway0026]

Ukraine is on sale ...

[Vitaly Anisimov]

They bought the documentation themselves collected (jobs) in a few years they will launch and sell the series (in the same Ukraine))))

[rolik]

Quote: MIKHAN

and will be sold (to the same Ukraine))))

Ukraine will not have money to buy them))))

[3935333]

I am not at all happy about this, and I think the command of our Pacific Fleet and all APEC countries too. I think we should sell the same to Vietnam and the Philippines. And what, guys from the "Sea" plant, I think they will only be for it. And to our sailors to the Vladivostok (mistral) a couple of diesel-electric submarines and a couple of frigates, but only pr.11356R / M.

[Cristall]

In general, well done. The sea earned money with this order and the potential was preserved.
If you didn’t receive the order, it would be the other way around.
\ I think the decision is right. The plant needs to work. People need to live.
I would like to hope that the Ukrainian Navy or the Union State will someday order already improved versions of this handsome man from the factory for his own country.

[kafa]

the southern point was killed .............. cyclones, antares, swallows, sunrises, vultures are interesting to someone. You would know what you’re talking about, and by the way, people were killed for this documentation

[Nitarius]

and there’s nothing to say .... they’re selling the best of the times of the USSR ... but how much effort was spent then ...

[Alex toll]

In my opinion, gentlemen, Ukraine with its methods of work puts not only itself, but also the Russian Federation at risk. Tell me gentlemen, who is here from Ukraine - do you approve of such a movement? You have nothing more to sell? Che all fat, vodka not in demand? Duck, try yourself first to create from scratch and don’t have to say what you yourself thought up - you thought up joining the EU here - a great decision to join those features for whom the Slavs are not a nation at all, but slaves ............ ........

Oh sorry)))) Your stronghold has already gone under the hammer - the newest weapon)))) created from scratch and immediately sold ...... You will go far !!! Happily, "Europeans" - a tablecloth road to your bright future !!!

Ours are also good ..... But they are selling old designs, but they are making a brand new one for themselves.

[Kars]

Quote: Alex Toll

you approve of such a movement

Of course. The plant and allies need work.

Quote: Alex Toll

Che all fat, vodka not in demand?

there is never much money.

Quote: Alex Toll

Duck, try yourself first to create from scratch

created.

Quote: Alex Toll

and don’t say what you’ve come up with

why? in the USSR everything was of a common type

Quote: Alex Toll

for which the Slavs are not a nation at all, but slaves ...............

of course.

Quote: Alex Toll

The stronghold you have already gone under the hammer - the latest weapons)))) created and sold from scratch

But what to salt it? Or maybe the Russian Federation does not sell weapons?

Quote: Alex Toll

Happily

Thank you.

Quote: Alex Toll

But they are selling old designs, and they are making a brand new thing to themselves under the guise of.

You need more. Yes, and you have more money.

[self-propelled]

I knew that the discussion of this article would smoothly turn into accusing Ukraine of "all mortals." It has already been said on this resource more than once, and I would not like to repeat, but still ... Ukraine is an independent state (this is a fact). accordingly, freely independently make political and (or) economic decisions (regardless of the opinion of other states) within the framework of the international legal field. there are violations on the part of Ukraine - please contact the international court. are there any such appeals?
with regards

Duck, try yourself first to create from scratch and do not say what you yourself came up with

it has also been said more than once - Ukraine, Russia, and other independent states of the post-Soviet space in their military-industrial complex are still use the achievements of the times of the USSR
I agree, not everything that the leadership of Ukraine does is pleasant to the Ukrainians themselves (and they are not particularly asked). but this is a separate issue ...
with respect

[morpex]

Quote: Alex Toll

Ours are also good ..... But they are selling old designs, but they are making a brand new one for themselves.

Do you think the 4 ++ fighters are old development? And by the way, you are collaborating with the geyrope so delighted by the Russian users, so that poor Ukraine didn’t even dream of the most rosy dreams!

The leaders of ANTK MiG held negotiations with the British company Avionik on the modernization of electronic equipment for MiG aircraft, signed an agreement to create a joint venture with one of the German companies to help operate the MiG-29, which is in service with Germany, and held preliminary negotiations on the sale of MiG- 29 and MiG-31 to Portugal, South Korea and Switzerland. The Sukhoi MMZ held preliminary talks in Zhukovsky on the sale of Su-27 fighters to South Korea and signed a letter of intent with Airbus Industrie on certification of the Su-26 sports and acrobatic aircraft. In addition, the Sukhoi MMZ signed a contract with the French company Thomson on cooperation in the development of on-board and navigation equipment for civil aircraft.

[Cristall]

the impression that in the country only vodka and lard should be produced so as not to violate Russian stereotypes?
Or do we have a monopoly? Or do you have a monopoly on everything except fat and vodka?
The factory produced and produces them. He’s not a salting factory!
The danger is not from Ukraine but from Russia itself - the methods are common, we can sell to China, he is not a neighbor, but it’s dangerous for you, but you’re still selling it.
I see no reason to attack the Ukrainian methods of work - they are the same as the Russian, although we don’t need to think globally, but you don’t.

[kafa]

MODERE ardor and grease to the good and the gorilka and the divine garn. Ukraine is famous for its enterprises, including defense (and the foolish self-serving Khrushchev, etc., etc.). Glory to Ukraine - glory and ganba freaks

[Migari]

Well, everything, now the Chinese herds on the seas and waves: "ZUBROV" will swim out, Qiai mill is a carbon copy.

[Migari]

Well, everything, now the Chinese herds on the seas and waves: "ZUBROV" will come out, Tsai country is a carbon copy.

[ramin_serg]

Well done, the Chinese bought the technology they themselves will soon produce. Taiwan get ready to meet the landing Chinese landing.

[makarov]

Yes, they do not "sculpt" for themselves, they will sell to potential opponents, so that more drowned .......

[So_o_tozh]

Mdaa, and Russian orders at Ukrainian shipyards, exactly promised before the Kharkov agreements on the Black Sea Fleet, are already running away ...

[morpex]

Quote: So_o_tozh

Mdaa, and Russian orders at Ukrainian shipyards, exactly promised before the Kharkov agreements on the Black Sea Fleet, are already running away ...

I'm generally surprised. Is it really easier to rake money with the French (I'm talking about the Mistrals)? There is only one conclusion. Probably our Anusovich on "rollback" demanded more than the paddling pools ...

[kafa]

threw bait ... and away we go. srach for sracha ?! you think with a little mind where the bison will land troopers ?!
I built them a little bit I know .....

[Yuri Y.]

Ukraine is stepping on the same rake as Russia, it thinks that trade with China will help out (we seem to have begun to think better). Of course, you can say goodbye to "Bison", no more benefit, even on the contrary (competitor). There is documentation, there are two installation copies, there is assembly experience (along with the assembly, making a copy).

[RUSBAT]

One can argue for a long time and persistently who is to blame, Russia or Ukraine. There is only one conclusion, we are all armed with technologies of a potential adversary, and this will return to us later as a boomerang.

[voliador]

Saloids from lack of money already sell technical documentation .

[morpex]

Quote: voliador

Saloids from lack of money already sell technical documentation

Not hungover? Smoked wrong? Or another inadequate? So just to blurt out.

[Cristall]

You guys are strange - you don’t like Kars for the fact that a person clearly defends precisely Ukrainian interests. Your will, but I do not see anything reprehensible. And his methods are still quite soft .. he could also use some methods, but he doesn’t do well.
According to the Bison, there would be no contract, no Bison would have been built at all ... neither Russia nor Ukraine ordered a single copy.
According to Russian orders at Ukrainian shipyards, there is also a separate topic of the Kharkov agreements, but here in general there is a dead end.
So at least 4 Bisons will appear, because I don’t see a chance to see at least Russian Russians. What is strange - by the way, and where are the Russian Bison being repaired? Ours are dumb ...
In general, it would be useful to make an article about this plant.
And the fact that the plant signed a contract and fulfills it should indicate that they can and have done it.
I hasten to remind you how much bad things were poured on the country, the factory and every Ukrainian tub and how many predictions were there after the crane accident that everything was gone. And now, surprisingly, no one apologized for being wrong. Well, well - conscience is their judge ...