Military Review

The gunner must and can hit the head piece (Part of 1)

97
Annotation: The AK-74 Guide recommends a direct shot at the chest figure, but there are no chest targets on the battlefield. Fire duel must be waged with a head goal. Therefore, it is necessary to fire to the range of 300 with a direct shot with an “3” sight, which will allow the machine gunner to conduct a fire duel even with the help of a standard mechanical sight.



The scientific version of this article was published in the edition of the Academy of Military Sciences "Bulletin of the Academy of Military Sciences" No. 2 and 2013.

The 1 part of the machine gunner must hit the head piece.

In the past two decades in hostilities, where our rifle weapon was used against US-made small arms, the loss ratio is not in favor of our weapons.

But it is generally recognized and confirmed by tactical and technical data that there is no superiority, for example, M-16 or M-4 itself over Kalashnikovs. On the contrary, the legendary reliability of AK gives a head start against any opponent. Therefore, in our country, the unsatisfactory ratio of losses is usually attributed to poor training of troops who fought with our weapons.

However, along with weapons, we also supply manuals for their use, our military schools and academies, and our advisers teach our weapons recipients how to shoot. Therefore, it is unacceptable to dismiss such results from the combat use of our weapons and our methods of shooting.

Let us analyze what methods of automatic firing are taught by our “Manual of the Kalashnikov 5,45-mm machine gun () N X АК АК АК АК АК АК АК АК UM» »К К К К К К К К К К К К К К К К К К К К К К К К К К К К К К К К К К К К К К К К К К К К К ала ала);

Figure 1. Excerpt from Art.155 AK-74 Guides [1].


As we see, in the first paragraph of Art. 155 declared the undisputed position necessary for maximum probability of hitting the target. After all, as capaciously stated in the monograph “Efficiency of firing from automatic weapons” [2]: “3.5. The degree of combining the midpoint of hits with the center of the target determines the accuracy of shooting. "

But the second paragraph of Art. 155 recommends that the main method is a direct shot at the chest figure, because “P” corresponds to the range of the direct shot at the chest figure. At the regular sector (mechanical) sight of the Kalashnikov assault rifle there is a special “P” position - the direct shot range at the chest figure. That is, the sight of the machine gun is optimized for a direct shot exactly on the chest figure.

Therefore, the question of how much happens in combat breast goals, is the main issue for assessing the effectiveness of our main method of automatic firing.

The chest figure, whose height is 0,5m, is equal in height to the arrow in the manufacture for prone shooting “with elbows at shoulder width” on a completely flat surface, for example, in the middle of the asphalt area. And how many targets in combat that take up a firing position on a completely flat platform?

What firing positions teach soldiers to occupy in foreign armies? Let us analyze it in the document «Manual for planning and executing training on the 5.56-mm M16A1 and M16A2 rifles» [3], which can be translated as "Guidance on planning and conducting training with 5.56-mm rifles M16A1 and M16A2" (hereinafter translation author). This guide was developed on the basis of the US Army Infantry School at Fort Benning (Benning) for commanders and instructors of the US Army [3, PREFACE]. This guide teaches soldiers from the US Army and other countries that have an M-16 rifle in service.
Here is the main requirement of this firing position guide:

«IMPORTANT:… Although the shooter must be high enough to observe all targets, it must remain as low as possible to provide additional protection against enemy fire ”[3, FIRING POSITIONS].

The requirement “to remain as low as possible” is repeated in different variations for each type of firing position and determines the choice of firing position by a US Army soldier.

“When taking up a position, a soldier adds or removes soil, sandbags, or other types of parapet to adjust its height,” and only then takes the ready for shooting behind this parapet. And specifically stated "put your elbows on the ground behind the parapet" (and not on it) [3, Supported fighting position]:

The gunner must and can hit the head piece (Part of 1)
Figure 2. Supported fighting position [3, Supported fighting position].


Figure 3. Modified Firing Positions [3, Modified Firing Positions].


That is, if the American soldier has a few minutes, he is also obliged, out of the blue, to build a parapet and take cover behind him. Moreover, be sure to hide behind a stone or other natural parapet:

Figure 4. Alternate prone position [3, Alternate prone position].


“The 3-15 figure shows a soldier shooting above the ridge of the roof and just popped out just enough to hit the target” [3, MOUT Firing Positions]:

Figure 5. Firing over rooftops [3, MOUT Firing Positions].


“The 3-17 shape underlines the need to remain in the shadow while firing from the window, and supports the requirement to hide” [3, MOUT Firing Positions]:

Figure 6. Firing from windows [3, MOUTE Firing Positions].


As we see, shooting from a window, a soldier of the US Army does not put his elbows on the windowsill, but is behind the windowsill and uses it as a shelter. If in Figure 6 to follow the direction of shooting (down the approaches to the house), it becomes clear that the enemy can see only the head and shoulders of the shooter, but not his chest.

There is also a position for shooting from a level ground in the [3] Handbook. In this position, the height of the arrow is reduced in the following way:
- at first they force the “non-shooting” hand to hold the rifle just for the fore-end, but not for the magazine. As a result, this arm is pulled out and the “non-shooting” shoulder is lowered;

- and if now put the “shooting” elbow at shoulder width, then the “shooting” shoulder will be much higher than the “non-shooting”. But “the soldier adjusts the position of the shooting elbow until his shoulders level, ..” [3, Prone unsupported position]. That is, the “shooting” elbow is set aside, as a result, the soldier is pressed to the ground, which is facilitated by the short store M-16:

Figure 7. Prone unsupported position [3, Prone unsupported position].


Here we need a comparison with our lying position:


Figure 8. Excerpt from Art.118 AK-74 Guides [1].


From the figures 7 and 8, you can see that our shooter with AK-74 is higher than the shooter with M-16. This is due to the installation of elbows at shoulder width, which leads to the rise of the shoulders and head to the level of the chest figure. And it is precisely in this figure (measured according to our Guide) that we learn to shoot our machine gunners.

But in the US Army, the only position in which they do not care about lowering the silhouette is the standing position. But it is not intended for a fire duel, but for “observing the firing sector, since it can be adopted quickly while moving” [3, Standing position].

And even when shooting from a knee, which is used only when it is necessary to climb “over low grass or other obstacles” [3, Kneeling supported position], the “non-shooting” elbow is never placed on the knee, but necessarily “moves the knee forward” [3, Kneeling supported position], as a result of which the head and shoulders of the arrow are lowered and the figure seen by the enemy over the obstacle decreases:

Figure 9. Kneeling supported position [3, Kneeling supported position].


Thus, in the US Army there is not a single firing position in which the American soldier for the enemy would be a nursing target; Only the head target in a fire duel or growth while moving.

And in our army, people who have been under fire, too, are taught to reduce their silhouette as much as you can.

The author of this article in the 9-10 classes of the school (1975-1977) had an initial military training conducted by veteran of the Great Patriotic War, Colonel Dmitriev. He taught in this way: “In battle, before you get up for a run, you need to put up a shelter where you will run: at least a knoll, behind which you hide, at least a hole, into which you will fall. You lie down in front of the enemy - killed. "

And recently, on the website “Military Review” in the article “Bringing the head to a normal battle” there was generally a remarkable position for firing real fire at distances to 1 / 10:

The 10 “pruning” shooting is the lowest visible arrow silhouette. When aiming, shooting is very accurate. ”- [6].


Indicative exercise "Tumbler", proposed by the author of this article. From 30 shots with a change of position for each shot, with a backpack weighing 30 kg, for 1 minute 50 seconds, from 80 meters it is proposed to get thirty times into A4 format sheet (recall, 210Х297mm), that is, into an almost exact copy of the head figure No. XXUMX . Surely, "Roly-Poly" - practicing action when ambushed. And quite rightly, the author of this exercise believes that since the organizers of the ambush had at least a few seconds to take up positions, they would see no other goals than the head ones that were ambushed.

So, the armies of the whole world teach their soldiers to take up a firing position "high enough to watch all targets, but remain as low as possible." Therefore, in firing duels, the submachine gunner with the Kalashnikov practically never sees breast targets. Only head figures No. 5 or No. 5 from our “Shooting Course” [4]:


Figure 11. Targets number 5 and number 5 [4, application 8].


And it is precisely in such - head - targets that our submachine gunner shoots with a direct shot for the chest figure. What this leads to is discussed in the second part of the article.

References
[1] “The 5,45-mm Kalashnikov assault rifle (AK74, AX74, AK74H, AX74H) and 5,45-mm Kalashnikov machine gun (RPK74, RPXXNNXX, RPK74H, RPXXXUM, RPX74H, PCXX74, RPXXNNXX, RPX1982H, PCXXXNUMX, RPXXNNXX, AKXNUMXH, RPXXNUMX, RPXXNNXX, RPKXNUMXH, RPXXXNUMX, AKXNUMXH) XNUMX
[2] "The effectiveness of firing from automatic weapons", Shereshevsky, MS, Gontarev, AN, Minaev, Yu.V., Moscow, Central Research Institute of Information, 1979,
[3] M5.56A16 and M1A16 rifles Manual for planning and executing training on 2-mm, FM 23-9, 3 JULY 1989, Distributing: Active Army, USAR, and ARNG.
[4] “The rate of shooting from small arms (COP-85)” of the USSR Ministry of Defense, commissioned by the order of the Commander-in-Chief of the Ground Forces of 22 in May 1985, No. 30, Military Publishing House, Moscow, 1987.
[5] “Shooting tables at ground targets from small arms of caliber 5,45 and 7,62 mm” Ministry of Defense of the USSR, vehicle / GRAU №61, Military Publishing House of Defense of the USSR, Moscow, 1977
[6] “Bringing the head to normal combat”, September 20 2013, www.topwar.ru


The author of the article is Viktor Svateev, reserve officer.
E-mail: [email protected]
Articles from this series:
The gunner must and can hit the head piece (Part of 1)
The gunner must and can hit the head piece (Part of 2)
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  1. Denis
    Denis 22 October 2013 08: 06 New
    28
    Everything is correct, only this is not enough!
    If earlier a conscript could disassemble-assemble AK and shot from it even at a chest target, now will he even get into the tank?
    It is necessary to return the lessons of NVP
    1. Canep
      Canep 22 October 2013 08: 21 New
      15
      When I served in the 90s from the entire commandant company of our division, a single soldier fired at the top five, a hunter in civilian life. Half of the company shot at two, the company commander at three. Before you learn how to disassemble a machine gun, you need to teach how to shoot from it, at least three. I would pay soldiers a monetary allowance for serving in the guard, and in the guard I would take only fighters who can shoot.
      1. Ascetic
        Ascetic 22 October 2013 08: 53 New
        36
        Quote: Canep
        Half of the company shot at two, the company commander at three. Before you learn how to disassemble a machine gun, you need to teach how to shoot from it, at least three.


        And in order to learn how to shoot first, each machine needs shoot down, which apparently you have not done. This is done quite simply. At a distance of 100m, the so-called sighting the target is a 35 x 25 rectangle of black color, like tiles. The sight-3 is set on the machine, the shooter takes a lying position from the stop. You need to aim under the lower edge of the target, and between the front and the edge of the target you must leave a thin gap, as they say with the trunk of a mosquito. Otherwise, the front will merge with black. The rule of aimed shooting is that the bullet “falls” on the tip of the front sight. All military weapons are fired at the Center.!! Now you can conduct sighting single fire. It is necessary to ensure that the average point of impact is 13 cm above the aiming point, (for AK-74). For each type of weapon, it is different, for example, for AKM -25cm. It is calculated based on the trajectory of the bullet and is known in advance.
        Then you look where your bullets lie down relative to the midpoint of the hit and adjust the front sight accordingly. when the front sight is moved 1 mm to the side, the point of contact at a distance of 100 m is shifted in the opposite direction by 26 cm. The front sight is moved using a special device - a muscular guide, or you can carefully knock it through the pin with a hammer (well, it’s better not to do this without matching. experience for natural curvature will make itself felt). Vertically . One vertical full revolution of the front sight of both types of machine guns at a distance of 100 m moves the middle point of impact up and down by 20 cm in height. If the bullets go lower, the front sight must be twisted (lowered). If the bullets go higher, the front sight must be unscrewed (raised). The front sight is regulated by the end part of the screwdriver located in the pencil case with accessories.
        Adjusted, then re-shots 5 and so on until the desired result is achieved, when the bullets will accurately lie at the midpoint of the hit.
        As a rule, the most trained shooters from among the officers are engaged in shooting, but every soldier must know these rules.
        1. crest
          crest 22 October 2013 09: 07 New
          10
          Clever koment, but I only saw a flyman at the Infantry School, he was absent by definition in the infantry regiment. I don’t know how trunks were nailed in Kovrov and Tula, but getting out of them was problematic
          1. Ascetic
            Ascetic 22 October 2013 09: 40 New
            18
            Quote: crest
            I only saw a flyman at the Infantry School, he was absent by definition in the infantry regiment. I don’t know how trunks were nailed in Kovrov and Tula, but getting out of them was problematic


            Even in the Soviet school in Sherabad (Termez) this was taught. Then, as far as I remember, there were even planned periodic sightings of trunks. For a soldier carrying weapons on guard and exercises (getting stuck in an armored personnel carrier sad ) inevitably knocks down the front sight. Each regimental nachpul should have a musk guide and all sighting devices. He is preparing an order to conduct sighting, where all the officials of this event are determined. I remember already as a cadet at a military training intern, I also got into this business, there some kind of unthinkable check was expected and the new AK-74 assault rifles just entered the unit. And then all of them had to be urgently shot. Here then, we ran into a ringing in our ears and head. We then made a kind of conveyor, one pair is engaged in actual shooting, the second works on regular targets in short bursts from shot machine guns, then they are periodically changed because it is difficult to constantly keep the target and clearance with a single shot. With a correctly shot weapon, the results will be completely different. If you wish, even the most curved brake, you can teach to shoot at least three points. Motor memory is naturally different for everyone, so everything depends on the practice and the usual shot weapons.
            1. crest
              crest 22 October 2013 09: 48 New
              +9
              I believe you, but the trunks from the plant didn’t come shot, when I shot the barrel I did an exercise from the BMP assault on the growth perfectly
          2. svp67
            svp67 22 October 2013 09: 44 New
            14
            Quote: crest
            he was absent in the infantry regiment by definition
            "I love" our "infantry" for this, with a strange love, then they have one spoon for three, then the "fly guide" one per division ... In each TANK company in the "gunner's box" this "device" lay .. ...
            1. crest
              crest 22 October 2013 09: 55 New
              0
              Remember 47 or 74
              1. SPLV
                SPLV 22 October 2013 13: 50 New
                +1
                Well, isn’t it like AK-47? The troops were only AKM. And since 1949, have AK-47 been released only until 1953? If so, then again American terminology is in use.
          3. Andrey Yuryevich
            Andrey Yuryevich 23 October 2013 04: 13 New
            +1
            in 1981, when I didn’t have time to get into the unit, we had rearmament, changed the AK from 7,62 to 5,45, of course we got it from scratch. After a week, to the training ground, and as I recall, the indicators turned out to be better than with the previous AKM, apparently the degree of impact affected, the AK-74, of course, it is significantly less, although when firing a burst it still takes great soldier
        2. crest
          crest 22 October 2013 09: 35 New
          +1
          I want to add a musk guide from AK-47, I had to redo it at AK-74, and this is in KVTURKVO
          1. svp67
            svp67 22 October 2013 10: 44 New
            +5
            Quote: crest
            I want to add a musk guide from AK-47, I had to redo it at AK-74, and this is in KVTURKVO

            There are already "universal"
            Proofreader of a front sight (a musk duct, muskodav) universal PRB-1
            1. not good
              not good 22 October 2013 15: 03 New
              +7
              I’m envious of white envy how many shootings I have seen such a device for the first time, and the adjustment of the front sight was made on the convex naval eye with a light tapping in the right direction. soldier, and the article is necessary, get me during the service, would be useful.
              1. zub46
                zub46 22 October 2013 19: 34 New
                +6
                Outlandish times. Urgent 1968-70 years. Airborne. Each fly key is in the accessory, and the fly driver is in each battery company. Weapons must be shot (!) At least once every six months. I personally participated. I even remember my AKMS number - ЩД-1306. Perhaps this attitude to the accuracy of the battle of weapons was facilitated by the fact that in the troops at the level of foremen the company, deputy commander was full of participants in World War II. My battalion commander Reznik V.P. (military unit 74268) also participated in the platoon war. And they thought that how much.
        3. Svateev
          Svateev 22 October 2013 09: 59 New
          +9
          Quote: Ascetic
          each machine needs to be shot


          More precisely, lead to a normal battle.
          1. Ascetic
            Ascetic 22 October 2013 11: 29 New
            +7
            Quote: Svateev
            More precisely, lead to a normal battle.


            That's right. There are many people who will not understand the military language of instructions and charters and are not interested. Therefore, it is better to explain some things on the fingers without observing military terminology and abbreviation. Moreover, the military personnel who are selected to test the battle and bring to a normal battle weapons are called shooters
          2. svp67
            svp67 22 October 2013 11: 47 New
            +4
            Quote: Svateev
            More precisely, lead to a normal battle.
            and for this carries the PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY of the company commander ...
        4. Somad
          Somad 22 October 2013 11: 26 New
          +5
          Quote: Ascetic
          And in order to learn how to shoot, each machine must first be shot

          I agree completely. In the 90s received a new AK-74 (... with a plastic forearm. I personally got out of the boxes). Every 4th submachine gun showed the curvature of the barrel with the naked eye. Naturally, no one shot them (... but who needs it! ...). Accordingly, those who shot at 5, with such machine guns began to shoot at 2 and vice versa. I began to shoot at 5 ... Seeing such a thing, our battalion commander began to use my machine gun at the shooting range. The soldiers mumbled that they had to be shot, the officers waved it off - that was it ...
        5. JonnyT
          JonnyT 22 October 2013 19: 01 New
          +1
          served as an emergency, so we had classes on fire training to determine the midpoint of a hit, with the subsequent shooting of our weapons ...... the officer then said the golden rule - a bullet leads the gun ......
        6. Alekseev
          Alekseev 22 October 2013 19: 16 New
          +2
          All true.
          It is necessary to bring weapons to normal combat.
          But the AK-74 (AKM) is not a sniper rifle. A little left-right, especially when firing automatic fire is quite acceptable.
          The main thing is that the shooter gets used to the weapon, does not wait for a shot, confidently guides him at the target.
          I tried, always first to let the soldiers shoot in the shooting range. Give, so to speak, feel the weapon. The cartridges then did not spare, and when the very process of firing from a "blood-stirring" occupation turns into an ordinary process, and even the machine gun is shot, then a good mark on the military shooting range is guaranteed.
        7. Fedya
          Fedya 27 October 2013 19: 08 New
          0
          And I’m shooting my Hatsan mod60 on the water, I’ll drop the tin from under the beer, and from the distance I start firing. 5 shots are usually enough. Convenience is that the spread of hits is immediately visible.
      2. Adzhimushkay
        Adzhimushkay 22 October 2013 10: 09 New
        +2
        I can not agree. My experience says that chest, growth and machine gun confidently hit 90%. They shot from old AKM. That night shooting is an ass. Sooooo caught the fly against the background of the illuminated target, and it fell, then also the second ... so in the third they released the entire store, from whom the tracers flew from the sky, from whom they ricocheted off the ground right in front of the nose.
        1. Svateev
          Svateev 22 October 2013 10: 28 New
          +5
          Quote: Adzhimushkay
          I can not agree. My experience says that chest, growth and machine gun confidently hit 90%.


          So I wrote that the machine is optimized for firing at the chest figure (the machine gun is not lower than the chest), but you need to shoot at the head, lower. What do you disagree with?
    2. Mikhail3
      Mikhail3 22 October 2013 21: 29 New
      +1
      The CWP teachers must also be returned ... Ours did not teach us this idiocy with a chest figure. But what it means to create a parapet for yourself, how to find a position, why and how to shoot accurately - this he explained and showed us well. At the interschool "training camp" we won the first place in shooting from AK with bewilderment, because the chest figure seemed to us some kind of nonsense. We were then taught to shoot at sticks sticking out of the ground about 30 cm, no more. Our teacher's scars were scary ...
    3. mirag2
      mirag2 23 October 2013 08: 36 New
      +2
      What kind of nonsense? At the very first shooting, I don't remember how many meters it was (on "Shot" - Solnechnogorsk ... But no - in the military unit - at first the targets were raised - head, machine gunner, I hit them - all the cartridges quickly, without a miss, I hit all the targets. And then I look, the pectorals began to rise, then in height ... I think, it's good that I hit, but now there are some healthy ones, how much easier it is to hit.
      Weapons should now be different. Old AKs should be sold to the countries of the 3rd world, and we should have weapons with balanced automatic equipment. And talk that it is more expensive is "more difficult" - the bazaar of stupid people, because it is more difficult for 3 parts accuracy, accuracy increases significantly.
      After all, no one says that the T-90 is rubbish due to the fact that it is more complicated than the T-34 ...
  2. air wolf
    air wolf 22 October 2013 08: 32 New
    +6
    Everything is true with modern bulletproof vests, helmets it is difficult to hit the target becomes, but no one canceled the armored bullet, as well as target cartridges and good weapons. Therefore, I think, as before, all fighters with AKM should have compact optics, 2-4 times and a sniper in the compartment should always be. Offset to the author.
    1. svp67
      svp67 22 October 2013 09: 00 New
      +6
      Quote: air wolf
      Everything is true with modern bulletproof vests, helmets it’s difficult to hit the target becomes,

      I report that the presence or absence of body armor does not play a role in the likelihood of defeat, this factor affects the likelihood of the enemy being put out of action, that is, what damage can be received by an enemy soldier and how much they will affect his combat capability ...
    2. Lopatov
      Lopatov 22 October 2013 09: 09 New
      +5
      Quote: air wolf
      Therefore, I think, as before, all fighters with AKM should have compact optics, 2-4 times

      Practice shows that it will not help the majority. Look at the same Americans. Their chickens don’t peck money, but most of them have collimator sights
      1. Sasha
        Sasha 22 October 2013 23: 00 New
        0
        most likely here it’s not a question of money; the practice of modern battles is most likely from 0 to 200 meters, mainly 300 and higher nonsense, although it can happen. the question of the practicality of the goal and the fighter himself have a habit of moving around and here the collimator has an obvious advantage. firstly, it does not narrow the angle of view, it is much faster to aim and, accordingly, a shot than with optics, the collimator helps a lot with intuitive shooting
  3. Maximus-xnumx
    Maximus-xnumx 22 October 2013 08: 34 New
    +4
    Quote: Denis
    If earlier a conscript could disassemble-assemble AK and shot from it even at a chest target, now will he even get into the tank?

    Report: get into the tank :))
    1. sergey32
      sergey32 22 October 2013 11: 59 New
      +9
      He studied at school in 80. Starting from the fifth grade, our military instructor, he then conducted work with us, regularly let us shoot from the air, and prepared for the lightning. In the 9-10 classes, once or twice a week we shot mz small things TOZ8, TOZ 12. Patrons did not spare. Result: at the training camp in the 10 class, they shot from AK single. My target was photographed for a newspaper.
    2. Black Colonel
      Black Colonel 22 October 2013 13: 14 New
      +2
      So he also needs to show on the field where exactly the tank is, and where is the bunker.
  4. morpogr
    morpogr 22 October 2013 08: 59 New
    +7
    It is imperative to strengthen fire training so that the methods of firing are as varied as possible while lying, standing, sitting, from shelter, etc. And those servicemen who performed the test give a cash bonus to the salary and you can enter a badge like the Voroshilov shooter. Do not spare the main cartridges for study .
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 22 October 2013 09: 05 New
      +8
      Everything is simpler, this can be done through class. Rather, this should be done.
      1. Ascetic
        Ascetic 22 October 2013 09: 43 New
        11
        Quote: Spade
        Everything is simpler, it can be done through coolness.

        Which automatically gives a salary bonus depending on the degree.
    2. Sirozha
      Sirozha 22 October 2013 11: 46 New
      +4
      I was very surprised when a comrade told me that they were in the landing, and he was serving in the Zhytomyr brigade, in the reconnaissance company, they finally introduced practical shooting, and not just firing at targets from fixed positions.
      So, I believe that such training should not only be with scouts of paratroopers, such training should be with everyone who is assigned a machine gun on a staff schedule, because after all, after service and a machine gun, soldiers did not see us, not to shoot ...
      1. Lesnik
        Lesnik 22 October 2013 12: 00 New
        -1
        And what do you mean by the term "Practical shooting", especially in the aerodynamic brigade? Sorry to say "airmobile"
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. Sasha
        Sasha 22 October 2013 23: 06 New
        0
        I absolutely agree, not only with the individual fighter, but also with the groups in motion to learn the coordination and behavior of each fighter, a la football in the end, each soldier in the group should understand the task assigned to him in the group and not just stupidly shoot in the direction
        1. Lesnik
          Lesnik 22 October 2013 23: 19 New
          0
          Do you mean preliminary drawing of combat episodes, followed by working out on a target field with a combat shot in a group? Well this is aerobatics. Sirozha (1) not understanding the difference screwed the fashionable term that's all. And knowing the real level of b / p in ZSU is just ridiculous.
          1. Sasha
            Sasha 22 October 2013 23: 24 New
            +1
            live shooting in a group, not only shooting in motion but also the synchronization of the group is processed. and this is not aerobatics but normal practice. Yes, and behavior in various situations.
            Quote: Forestman
            You mean preliminary drawing of combat episodes, followed by practicing on a target field with a combat shot in a group

            exactly
    3. JonnyT
      JonnyT 22 October 2013 19: 04 New
      0
      Quote: morpogr
      The main thing is not to spare the cartridges for study.

      my brother served in the Marine Corps, so there were no spare ammunition .... so as not to shoot, they drowned the zinc in the sea - like they shot) .....
      spare no patrons and control the learning process
  5. Lopatov
    Lopatov 22 October 2013 09: 04 New
    +1
    This is all good, but the probability of hitting a head target with an AK-74 assault rifle at a distance of 300 m is only 50%, if you believe the Shooting Tables. From the most optimal position for shooting
    1. Svateev
      Svateev 22 October 2013 10: 22 New
      +6
      Quote: Spade
      but the probability of hitting the head target with an AK-74 machine at a distance of 300 m is only 50%


      Yes, that's right. And this is if you shoot with a scope of 3, as I suggest. But this is at least something. But with sights 4 or "P", as recommended by the "AK74 Manual", the probability of hitting is much worse, which will be shown in the second part of the article.
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 22 October 2013 10: 58 New
        +4
        It's just that the whole complex "cartridge-weapon-shooter" needs to be improved
        However, you are one of the few who remembered the third, main, part of it
      2. Aleks tv
        Aleks tv 22 October 2013 15: 04 New
        +5
        Quote: Svateev
        But with sights 4 or "P", as recommended by the "AK74 Manual", the probability of hitting is much worse, which will be shown in the second part of the article.

        The system (namely the SYSTEM) of fire training from small arms is fundamentally different depending on the nature of the service itself.
        What you write is MASS training of motorized rifles. Please do not forget to talk about it, otherwise the specialists will peck at you, and they will be right, since a normal special training instructor always knocks all ETHU classics out of the heads of the fighters.

        And about "3" or "P" - a very controversial issue ...
        Here the main role is played by NORMAL training and the EXPERIENCED skill.
        For example, when performing classical UKS from AK to the shooting range, I don’t need any modern exercises.
        The main thing is to know how the machine gun is shot.
        I will always put "P" and I know where to aim at a near-sized figure, a machine gunner and a long-distance figure.
        This SKILL with "P" developed over the years saved me more than once. I just shot, NOT THINKING.
        Thinking when shooting is not at all recommended.


        But it costs me "differently"to take a weapon, as ... another skill is included, as taught by later instructors. And I shoot the same without thinking.

        Thanks, Victor, for the article.
        It was interesting to read.
        I look forward to continuing the material.
        1. Svateev
          Svateev 22 October 2013 16: 00 New
          0
          Quote: Aleks tv
          a normal special training instructor always knocks out all the ETH classics from the heads of fighters.

          And he does the right thing, since this classic does not allow hitting the main target. But what do you need to "hammer" into the heads of the fighters to hit?

          Quote: Aleks tv
          The main thing is to know how the machine is shot

          Guard! Aleks, but after all, all machine guns should be shot the same way - brought to a normal battle! Otherwise, it is impossible to hit the entire depth of the sighting range. Our shooting course has taught you (as well as many others) to the same target environment:
          Quote: Aleks tv
          I will always put "P" and I know where to aim at a near-sized figure, a machine gunner and a long-distance figure.

          When the range to real targets is not the one to which you were accustomed to the shooting course - you will miss.
          Let’s discuss in more detail your method of shifting the aiming point and mine - a direct shot from the 3 sight - in the comments after the second part of this article?
          1. Aleks tv
            Aleks tv 22 October 2013 16: 25 New
            0
            Quote: Svateev
            SHOT ALONE

            Not quite accurately put it ...
            "How shot" is to know the disposition of a particular barrel. How not to regulate it, but you cannot achieve good shooting (not range) from it if you do not know the specifics of a particular weapon.

            Quote: Svateev
            in the comments after the second part of this article?

            Victor, has already written that I am waiting for the continuation.
            I read with pleasure and communicate with desire.
            hi
  6. Rex
    Rex 22 October 2013 09: 31 New
    +7
    To the author - praise. A well-developed article for this site.
    It will be necessary to read the original
  7. Svateev
    Svateev 22 October 2013 10: 08 New
    +2
    Quote: crest
    the average hit point was higher than the aiming point by 25 cm, (for AK-74).


    Wrong! AK-74 with an 3 sight at a distance of 100m should give an excess of 13cm (Table of excesses of trajectories over the aiming line)
  8. Per se.
    Per se. 22 October 2013 10: 13 New
    +2
    "The submachine gunner must hit the head piece", who is against it, but why not immediately hit the kopeck? The author mixed everything into one pile, distances and types of combat, considering firing from the position of a shooter in a shooting range. "In the last two decades in hostilities, where our small arms have been used against small arms made by the United States, the ratio of losses is not in favor of our weapons", how is it? It's not just about the AK, in general, all our weapons! Where did such statistics come from, who and with whom fought here? It has already been noted that for the same Arabs it is advisable to put a fire translator on the AK, cutting off 3 rounds, otherwise, due to their "mentality", they release the entire store. What will be the accuracy? By the way, the author does not specify what kind of fire we are talking about, single, burst or series. Not a word about the quality of cartridges, equipping the same AK with collimator sights, shooting training, reasonable addition of machine gunners with snipers and machine gunners. From AK, like any weapon, one must be able to shoot, this must be taught, and not blame everything on the fact that weapons are better in the USA and American soldiers shoot more accurately. Putin recently said that our weapons should shoot further and more accurately, now it looks like they will start demanding sniper rifles for this case, or they will find a reason to buy M16s.
    1. Svateev
      Svateev 22 October 2013 10: 45 New
      +2
      Quote: Per se.
      sniper rifles will start demanding from this machine guns

      Everything must be demanded reasonably, based on realities, as I do in the article. By the way, if you put optics on the AK-74, then by the probability of a hit it is already several times worse than SVD.

      Quote: Per se.
      or find reason M16 to buy

      But to prevent this from happening, I show the unused AK ability to hit the head target. And for some reason, you divert attention to a bunch of other issues: the quality of cartridges, collimator sights, types of combat, etc. etc.
      1. Per se.
        Per se. 22 October 2013 11: 47 New
        +3
        Quote: Svateev
        For some reason, you divert attention to a bunch of other issues: the quality of cartridges,

        Dear Svateev, a lot depends on the quality of the primer and gunpowder, the same AK, with good ammunition, will hit targets much more accurately, and with a single fire or a short burst it will have an accuracy comparable to the same M16. Undoubtedly, your desire to improve the accuracy of shooting with AK can only be welcomed, but the accuracy of shooting is not abstract, it is made up of such factors as distance and type of battle. If you are talking about shooting in a field, in a trench, what is the "main target" if we are not talking about sniper fire? Fighting in the city, shooting at window openings? It is preferable to knock heads out of windows with heavier weapons, and in a maneuvering battle, accuracy is not so much important as the density of fire. You are citing pictures from Soviet shooting instructions, no one will pull the elbows off like that, but put the AK on the ground with a horn and shoot. Naturally, to shoot accurately is a blessing, he needs to be taught, but learn from real, not poster instructions, where at the shooting range they generally scolded for single shots, forcing them to bend according to the scheme. I would like to believe that the second part of your article will turn out closer to real training, generalized experience, to improve the accuracy of shooting by submachine gunners, and not by American commandos or snipers.
        1. SPLV
          SPLV 22 October 2013 14: 06 New
          +2
          Quote: Per se.
          will have accuracy comparable with the same M16

          Unfortunately, I didn’t shoot from the M-16 or even the AK-74, only the AKM. I think there are not many people on the site who shot and could objectively compare the AK-74 and M-16. But in the magazine "Arms" I came across an article where the percentage data on the accuracy of these types of weapons are given. Here they are just comparable and exceed the performance of the new M-4. Or do you have other data obtained in practice? Thanks in advance.
          1. Per se.
            Per se. 22 October 2013 16: 45 New
            +1
            If we compare the accuracy of the M16 with the AK-74, especially automatic fire, we must immediately say that a literal comparison will be in favor of the M16, due to its layout, a more powerful and high-quality cartridge. Such a comparison is not entirely correct, with a comprehensive comparison, they argue a lot and for a long time, but the fact of comparability is recognized. For example, the AK has a sectorial open sight, in which it is more convenient to shoot at moving targets, and the M16 has a diopter, more convenient when shooting at fixed targets, and so on, to the reliability factor. As for the accuracy data, the use of a better cartridge almost always increases the accuracy of the weapon, AK is no exception.
    2. rereture
      rereture 22 October 2013 10: 53 New
      +5
      The article does not contain a word about whose weapon is shit and whose is not. The article clearly states that basically shooting is carried out on the head figure, and not the chest. And excerpts from the manuals, which prove that the position of the soldier of the potential enemy corresponds to the head figure, and not the chest one.
      1. Per se.
        Per se. 22 October 2013 17: 07 New
        +1
        Quote: rereture
        The article does not contain a word about whose weapon is shit and whose is not. The article clearly states that basically shooting is carried out on the head figure, and not the chest.
        The article says that "In the last two decades in hostilities, where our small arms were used against small arms made by the United States, the ratio of losses is not in favor of our weapons." Fire training in the US Ground Forces is conducted not only on the head figure, various growth targets are also used. Training and classification firing is conducted at ranges of 75, 175 and 300 meters with individual training, then, as part of a tactical unit, at a range of 300-600 meters. The minimum requirement for a shooter is 7 out of 10 targets at 300 meters. For shooting, 500 shots per week are allocated, this is what you need to pay attention to, together with good shooting instructors, conducting tactical exercises for rifle units with laser simulators in full gear, which, no doubt, is a plus in the training of US soldiers.
    3. Revolver
      Revolver 23 October 2013 03: 57 New
      +2
      Quote: Per se.
      for the same Arabs

      Yeah, Arabs, they are such Arabs. Do you want anti-advertising Russian weapons? Supply it to the Arabs. Technique in the hands of a savage - a piece of iron.
      And a couple of days ago on topwar there was an article about the Israeli special forces and a photo of the guys from, if memory serves, Sayeret Matkal, with AKMS. So this photo testifies to the combat capabilities of Russian weapons better than a video of an Arab dropping a full magazine from a submachine gun raised above his head, yelling "Alla, I'm going to the bar!"
  9. ed65b
    ed65b 22 October 2013 10: 45 New
    +3
    In our armory, letekha immediately after school, shot only at the racks of targets. Ace was a professional in shooting.
  10. DesToeR
    DesToeR 22 October 2013 10: 55 New
    +4
    Yes, the school now teaches anything, except military training and medicine. Strange right? All right, in Russia, but in Belarus it would have been possible to create a "paradac" long ago. And for the state, the cost savings would be what would have been if a person would come to the troops who would know small arms well and would be able to handle them. It would be possible to devote more time to firepower training, and I think tvmatism would decrease.
  11. Droid
    Droid 22 October 2013 10: 56 New
    +5
    The author is a noble troll. To begin with, the recommendation does not mean dogma, to continue with the fact that fans of fire duels do not live long. In general, Soviet military science did not envision any duels between the shooters.
    Well, the pictures from the Guide missed by the author of the article are incorrect because they contradict his statements.
    1. Droid
      Droid 22 October 2013 10: 57 New
      +3
      And more pictures.
    2. Droid
      Droid 22 October 2013 10: 58 New
      +5
      More pictures.
    3. Droid
      Droid 22 October 2013 11: 00 New
      +6
      And finally.
      1. Hleb
        Hleb 22 October 2013 11: 13 New
        +6
        interesting, but we weren’t taught to push the store into the ground or something. Also, how to hold the store when shooting. Not that it’s impossible, but not desirable
        1. wei
          wei 22 October 2013 20: 54 New
          0
          but we weren’t taught to push the store into the ground or something

          immediately remembered the foreman soldier
          "a soldier without a tag that ..... without a hole" he used to say for using a bayonet-knife to hit the back, and for throwing a kick
          weave shop in the mud vish chago thought up am
        2. Andrey Yuryevich
          Andrey Yuryevich 23 October 2013 04: 16 New
          +2
          you will hold the "horn", fuck where you go ... yes
      2. cth; fyn
        cth; fyn 22 October 2013 15: 42 New
        -4
        But the store does not warp? as far as I remember, they dangled quite easily in the store and it seems to me that by resting it in the ground you can catch a wedge due to the obliquely filed cartridge.
    4. Svateev
      Svateev 22 October 2013 15: 29 New
      +3
      Droid! Once again you are surprised at your inability to understand the text of the articles.

      Quote: Droid
      pictures from the Guide missed by the author of the article, incorrect because they contradict his statements

      ALL the pictures you cited DO NOT CONTRADICT, BUT CONFIRM my statements. After all, I argue that there will be no chest targets on the battlefield. And the Americans are taught to hide behind the parapet, and we are mainly taught also - to be the main goal for the enemy. But for some reason we learn to shoot not at the head, but at the chest target! A picture of our shooter, when he is a breast target, I included in the article. The Americans in the Guide to the M-16 picture, wherever their soldier was a chest target, no.

      Quote: Droid
      recommendation does not mean dogma

      So we need to change this recommendation so that it does not lead to losses. Because it is only you who do not pay attention to the recommendations in the Guide, only for you the sight optimized for a direct shot at the chest, and not at the head figure is not a problem.

      Quote: Droid
      Soviet military science did not envision any duels between the shooters

      Sweet (or "sweet"?) Droid! When the military website talks about a fire duel, it does not mean a duel over a blonde between her friends according to the 19th century dueling code "from ten steps to three." A fire fight, when you have taken a position that provides the most accurate shooting, and the enemy does not advance, retreat, but also lay down and tries to hit you.
      So do you understand?
      1. Droid
        Droid 22 October 2013 21: 57 New
        +2
        After all, I argue that there will be no chest targets on the battlefield.

        On what basis? In battle, what kind of goals do not happen, for example, a machine gunner lying under fire.
        So we need to change this recommendation so that it does not lead to losses.

        Change to what?
        And the following questions:
        1. Sights 1,2,3 on the aiming bar they, what for beauty?
        2. The excess table in the NSD is it also for beauty?
        3. Everyone is so stupid that they won’t guess to put together the first 2 points and understand that there’s a direct shot at the head with a sight of 3?
        When the military website talks about a fire duel, it does not mean a duel over a blonde between her own people according to the 19th century dueling code "from ten steps to three."

        When they start talking about duels, I have questions:
        1. What does a fighter’s unit do?
        2. Where and what does his commander do?
        3. Should a fighter complete a task or arrange dueling?
        A fire battle, when you took a position that provides the most accurate shooting, and the enemy does not advance, retreats, but also lies down and tries to hit you.

        The battle doesn’t mean a duel, but when your unit, from its position, squeezed fire and forced the enemy to lie down, and then mortars, a BMP cannon, or, at worst, AGS and RCG with grenade launchers, worked on it.
        1. Svateev
          Svateev 1 November 2013 14: 17 New
          0
          Quote: Droid
          On what basis?

          On the basis that everyone wants to live. And in vain they do not protrude. And all your "pictures" are proof of that.
          Quote: Droid
          In battle, what goals doesn’t happen, for example, a machine gunner lying under fire

          The sane machine gunner will also try to lie down for some parapet.
          Of course, occasionally everything happens. But it is necessary to prepare for the usual situation, and not rely on a rare fool.
  12. Lesnik
    Lesnik 22 October 2013 12: 11 New
    +2
    Reading some comments, I understand that all military personnel must be polls sniper 1st class.
    Then the question arises: why do we need automatic weapons in the sun?
  13. samoletil18
    samoletil18 22 October 2013 14: 17 New
    +1
    Correct article. There was a time when people were proud of the title "Voroshilov shooter". Now, this is a joke. And a good shooter from the PM standing from 25m into the penicillin (a bottle of penicillin) hit from the first shot. He, of course, looked after his weapons. And I fired the first time from my SCS after 7 months of service. I hit the target, but I had a feeling that I was dragged back and my shoulder ached. Those. I dragged a carbine around the guard for half a year, before me someone served with him and he was cleaned by figs knows when. Conclusion: most likely not that they saved the cartridges, they saved the lubricant. Well, the enemy did not go to war with us. And such "shooters" were not only in our regiment, but throughout the SA more than most. The bald announcer was right: "Learn, study and learn military affairs in a real way!"
    1. understudy
      understudy 22 October 2013 14: 55 New
      +2
      Quote: samoletil18
      And such "shooters" were not only in our regiment, but throughout the SA more than most.

      Well, this is how lucky someone is. In any case, the GSVG-ZGV cartridges were never counted.
      Article "minus", more far-fetched.
      1. samoletil18
        samoletil18 22 October 2013 22: 29 New
        0
        And we were still in quarantine about the cost of the cartridge for AK-74. If the memory does not change 1,5 rubles (Soviet).
        1. RPK-74
          RPK-74 22 May 2014 23: 51 New
          0
          14 kopecks 5,45 17 kopecks 7,62 84-86g GSVG infantry and fired until stupid (cartridges were thrown out, buried so as not to shoot, up to three times a day for months) themselves and shot their weapons
      2. Andrey Yuryevich
        Andrey Yuryevich 23 October 2013 04: 28 New
        +1
        Doubler- confirm yes and the best three according to the results of firing, we were given a full horn, and allowed free firing, that is, not necessarily in paper, they went into use and shells from an air gun, and tin cans, etc., were interesting.
  14. alex-cn
    alex-cn 22 October 2013 15: 44 New
    +1
    A strange article ... Naturally, it is necessary to learn how to shoot. We used to shoot 2-3 times a week, and from the second month only 3 UUS, who knows, and sighting boxes and fly guides were in each company. I can agree that not all the shooting positions recommended in the NSD are optimal, I taught mine a little differently, and more than once I had excellent shooting on tests. Only now I have a question for the author - how does he intend to see the head target at 300-400 meters in combat conditions? It is difficult to aim at such a range even at the target "machine gun" and "RPTR" if they are even slightly covered with grass. And if they also shoot back?
    1. Svateev
      Svateev 22 October 2013 16: 36 New
      0
      Quote: alex-cn
      I taught my own a little differently

      How exactly? Share, please.

      Quote: alex-cn
      question to the author - how does he expect to see the main target at 300-400 meters in a battle?

      Until 400, I do not propose to shoot at the head target with the 3 sight. With the 3 scope, this is only possible up to 300m.
      At a range of 300 it is possible to see the head one, although you are right - it depends on the situation.
      But the fact is that with 4 or "P" sights, it is unlikely to hit the head one from a range of 150m, since the STP is already higher than the target. And from sight 3 we will get. At a distance of 150m-200m, the head one is still quite visible, don't you agree?
      1. alex-cn
        alex-cn 22 October 2013 18: 58 New
        +2
        When shooting while lying down - Do not tilt the right leg to the right, but keep it in line with the machine gun, and the inner surface of the foot rests firmly on the ground and plays the role of a coulter, while the body does not twist at all during shooting. From the knee - just sit on the right leg, then you can make a solid triangle out of yourself. Many of these techniques were described in detail in the book "Sports Bullet Shooting" in '77 or '78.
        However, this was relevant for AKM, with low-pulse munitions this may not be necessary. Well, getting into the headache by 150 is no problem, again, if it doesn’t shoot back ...
  15. cth; fyn
    cth; fyn 22 October 2013 15: 56 New
    +1
    He served in 2010, firing were 3 times, although it is worth recognizing that they were not prepared badly, the basics were told.
    To be honest, I shot more in civilian life, although I went to serve after school, how can you even talk about some kind of shooting training? It should be admitted that it exists only in the "elite" branches of the armed forces.
    As far as I know, the tankers who served in the same 2010 situation was no better, they also had disastrously few shootings (They were on duty at the military town checkpoint together, they could have talked during the shift change), the same can be said about self-propelled guns (a friend served , on 2С19, speaks for the service only a couple of times I was in it).
    So the situation is complete Guano.
  16. Massik
    Massik 22 October 2013 16: 11 New
    +3
    Eternal problem: (simplified dialogue)
    “Lieutenant, where did you lead the soldier !?”
    -To shooting training Tash.Mayor!
    -Take your platoon, take shovels and go to the western checkpoint, they brought sand there, level the pits on the right side ...
    And so every day.
  17. largus886
    largus886 22 October 2013 16: 28 New
    +2
    Good article, but in practice everything is different. In Chechnya, an infantry department was sent to guard, so the machine gunner at the PKK had a front sight and there was no sighting bar, he shot at tracers!
  18. Vasia kruger
    Vasia kruger 22 October 2013 16: 34 New
    +2
    I liked the article. Many questions remained after reading, but for that we were given brains.
    Thank you.
  19. deman73
    deman73 22 October 2013 18: 28 New
    +3
    Good article. I don’t argue. It’s time to rework almost completely both manuals and firing courses, and more time with ammunition to devote to fire. At the expense of gunfire, I’ll say this, it all depends on the commerce we had, it was strictly related to it, and when I became comrades I strictly watched it, all the company’s weapons were shot every six months, by the way, that’s all, all weapon arms for this were in each platoon, and the foreman made a flyman at the factory per liter with his friends. Now, regarding the firing, in half a year you can easily train a fighter to pass tolerably well and use your standard weapons and you need to train him to shoot from all positions and for different targets due to the fact that in a real battle there are different situations and the battle can take place in different conditions so in short
  20. vkrav
    vkrav 22 October 2013 19: 13 New
    +2
    First of all, in order to learn how to make an assault rifle, he must shoot more than twice a service. The rest is secondary.
  21. Lesnik
    Lesnik 22 October 2013 19: 22 New
    0
    I believe that every unit commander should understand with his mind the need for targeting individual weapons subordinate to him l / s, and everything else is secondary.
  22. Navy7981
    Navy7981 22 October 2013 19: 31 New
    +2
    I read, some time ago, about an instructor in the Far East, in the Marine Corps, so in a month he made shooters from newcomers (not snipers). I even wrote a training manual. This is what I need to study, study and train.
  23. Eksgayster
    Eksgayster 22 October 2013 21: 17 New
    +2
    And even when shooting from the knee, which is used only when it is necessary to climb "over low grass or other obstacle" [3, Kneeling supported position], the "non-shooting" elbow is never placed on the knee, but necessarily "moves forward of the knee" [3, Kneeling supported position], as a result of which the head and shoulders of the shooter are lowered and the figure visible by the enemy over the obstacle is lowered: He served in the Internal Troops (Directorate of the Internal Troops of the USSR Ministry of Internal Affairs in Western Siberia 1979-1981). n / a major Ozderbiev. They never taught to put not the "shooting hand" on the knee, but to necessarily push it forward. The motivation was a simple, weighty kick in the butt. The explanation is even simpler, increasing the area of ​​support, reducing the swing of the weapon when aiming and firing, and Head and chest targets in a ratio of 6661/50, of the height ones only running, but most likely it was in the entire SA of the USSR. The aim is constant. Since the fighter gets a little lower, it seems to me bullshit, there is 50 cm there is 170. I ran to the shelter or its visibility, but not in a straight line, fell, rolled over, fire on a supposed or obvious target, again roll, so they taught and trained. The motivation is the same, with comments in your address, who you are, what you deserve if you mess up. As far as I remember, the conduct of the battle in a building, from the depths, in the shadows, at an angle with the obligatory overlap of dead zones. After 190 months, everything became more or less clear and understandable.
  24. Bogranz
    Bogranz 22 October 2013 21: 22 New
    +2
    For his service, very often had to conduct classes in the OP. In the program, bringing weapons to normal combat was not provided. Therefore, I used the first lesson to perform the initial exercise. Explained sergeants, officers, and myself ... After that, it was possible to ask a soldier as well .. A muskod is a rare thing, and even more so in units. It goes, as far as I remember, based on a certain number of machines. At one time, on the outpost, I found a muscovite of 1939 for the Mosin rifle. I sharpened it and ... still use it, but for my own purposes. And usually, in the absence of a muscovite, after determining the magnitude of the correction, they did this: with a standard needle, which the soldier should have had at least two, drew from the flywheel to the base. and then, with a hammer (stone, brick), the skid was moved to the desired distance, guided by the offset of the scratch from the needle. It turned out quite accurately ....
  25. alik
    alik 22 October 2013 21: 24 New
    +3
    He served in the internal troops at the end of the 80s at a separate outpost, the weapon was new for each draft, I thought then and I think now that they taught us to shoot conscientiously, disassembled and assemble the machine gun for 0,5 standard, zeroing every six months from a special machine (adjustment to getting several bullets from the machine into a circle with a coin of 20 kop from 100m), the shooting range (like other activities) strictly according to the plan without gaps every week, the cartridges for the exercise were given the norm (how many I don’t remember, but not much), but after everyone had shot, the were always hundreds, they had to be written off, so those who wished could stay and finish shooting. There was a little trick, the latter are dragging common property to the outpost (boxes, boxes, and it is still not clear what). He always stayed and gladly shot as many cartridges as they got, and not only from the AK-74, but also from the PK and SVD. Then it was true that I had to clean my machine gun and my machine gun, and someone else's SVD, but this was not a burden, they fired at night and even got hit. We were taught to take up a position and disguise ourselves in tactical exercises, our knowledge was confirmed in regular exercises that were held every 3 months, usually at night, without prior agreement with our commanders. Usually one or several "saboteurs" from the regiment's headquarters in the rank of major entered the territory of the outpost, made themselves known with explosives or signal flares (once with explosives with "bird cherry" directly into the dormitory), gave introductory information about the attack and saw what happened. Usually, half-dressed wars, hung with weapons, jumped out to "fight", took positions according to the schedule, then somehow dressed and began to perform assigned tasks. I especially remembered combing the taiga at night, we don’t know "our" is a saboteur or a real one, we were given blank cartridges so that they would not be shot, only officers had combat ones, then I remembered everything that was taught at once and how to sit down and where to look, how to stand behind a pine tree to merge with its shadow, when the illuminating rocket took off, everyone froze and looked around, as soon as it became dark, the shadows of the soldiers began to move around, with the next rocket they all disappeared again. The coherence came naturally. After a while, the saboteur realized that he shouldn't be and surrendered, turned out to be the chief of staff, our officers greeted him with friendly obscenities, but he still praised everyone. Always after the exercises, the actions of officers and soldiers, each individually, were analyzed, conclusions were drawn and changes were made to the combat schedule. For 20 years, the internal troops have remained the most efficient.
    1. Massik
      Massik 22 October 2013 23: 12 New
      0
      In our country, troops designed to fight the internal enemy are always better than with the external))) In 2008, they went to shoot twice a month, compared with others who served in the Moscow Region, they considered themselves almost military)))
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 22 October 2013 23: 38 New
        0
        It depends on many reasons. Including the location of the unit. We didn’t have to go anywhere, on foot 10-15 minutes. Because they shot often. And not only in the classroom. Before each entry into the guard, too. So gunners and tankers often had more practice than infantry.
    2. alex-cn
      alex-cn 23 October 2013 04: 38 New
      0
      I envy us, they also drove us well, but not so much
  26. Const
    Const 22 October 2013 21: 28 New
    0
    It turns out interestingly. Service 93-94. I have not heard of any sighting. In the training manual, before the oath and before graduation, they issued automatic machines for cleaning. :) they wiped it outside and poured oil inside, that's all. :) they were transferred to Tajikistan, after moral and physical suggestion of the officers within 2 weeks they were taught from the third stage to hit the target from ANYWHERE, incl. tofeynogo, automatic weapons. And again, there was no talk of any shooting. In the next six months, well, VERY help, I changed only my 3 trunks.
  27. valerei
    valerei 22 October 2013 21: 38 New
    0
    I read all the comments. It was a good discussion, but stupid in essence. What? Is the general distribution of printouts of the article and all comments to the troops supposed? Or someone urgently rushes to rewrite corresponding manuals and tables on the basis of this site? Why didn't the author first apply to the appropriate authorities with his calculations, or did this site remain the last resort? Here are how many questions I have. And so, in fact, the conversation turned out to be empty and is good only if the "warm" company gets together over a glass of beer. We drank the beer and dispersed.
    1. Svateev
      Svateev 22 October 2013 22: 37 New
      0
      Quote: valerei
      Or someone urgently rushes to rewrite the corresponding manuals and tables on the basis of this site?

      On the basis of only this site, of course, they will not rush to rewrite. So after all, the publication on this site is not the first, the first was in the "Bulletin of the Academy of Military Sciences", at the beginning of the article it is indicated. The author also turned to other "relevant authorities", is working with them, but this is a separate and not a quick song.
      And after this article, several hundred people will remember, several dozen will think, several will try at the training ground. Already the idea is not lost.
  28. Eksgayster
    Eksgayster 22 October 2013 22: 26 New
    +2
    And even when shooting from a knee, which is used only when you need to climb “over a short grass or other obstacle” [3, Kneeling supported position], a “not shooting” elbow is never put on a knee, but it is necessary to “move forward of the knee” [3, Kneeling supported position], as a result of which the head and shoulders of the arrow are lowered and the figure visible by the enemy above the obstacle is lowered: He served in the VV Directorate of the USSR Ministry of Internal Affairs for Western Siberia 1979 1981 Training battalion of military unit 6661 battalion commander Major Erygin nsh major Ozdeberiev It was forbidden to put one hand on one knee only push forward who did not understand the kick in the ass Nothing higher below only increase in the area of ​​the support decrease in the oscillation of the weapon when aiming and firing Throw forward but not in a straight line until cover shelter no more gathering who did not understand the kick in the ass the fire for an obvious or supposed purpose lay down the same kick roll forward again, and so to exhaustion if you did not meet the specified time, see above with comments who you are what are you and what is your future when you are dead The battle in the building as far as I can remember from the depths in the shadow at an angle the dead zone is not blocked the same kick After 5 months the picture began to clear up What Americans came up with when we had it 30 years ago, at least in BB The Ministry of Internal Affairs of the USSR About the decrease in the visibility of a fighter in my poppycock there are 170 cm and there are 190 20 cm this is really a lot
    1. Svateev
      Svateev 11 November 2013 19: 04 New
      0
      Quote: Eksgayster
      What Americans came up with when it happened 30 years ago, at least in the USSR Ministry of Internal Affairs

      True, we ourselves have been teaching our soldiers to hide behind the parapet for many years. But for some reason we learn to shoot at a target that imitates the arrow, not behind the parapet, but in the open. That is, we learn to shoot at targets that are not in battle.
  29. uzer 13
    uzer 13 22 October 2013 23: 12 New
    +2
    Excerpt from Article 155 of the AK-74 Manual is this a joke? It’s about setting the sight at 400m. Apparently, there are only snipers in the army now. But evil tongues say that the average infantryman now doesn’t hit the goal with a shotgun from 10 meters.
    For someone who knows how to shoot, it does not matter what the target-chest or head target is, because he shoots at a certain point, and not at some target. Previously, the sight was always set at 200m or P, and you had to remember just a couple of corrections — an excess of the trajectory by 100m and a decrease of 300m. Beyond 200m, according to statistics, the average shooter already misses anyway, so there’s nothing to be naughty, cartridges will be more intact.
    Here our American colleagues are correctly teaching the infantry how to choose a position for shooting, even from sniper training there are elements. It’s time to revise the charters and instructions on the small business. And then they wrote whole volumes that no one reads anyway and their meaning is no more than in the Talmud of the Dalai Lama.
  30. aszzz888
    aszzz888 23 October 2013 01: 15 New
    +1
    That's right: lying, kneeling, standing, etc., targets # 5, 5a, etc. Now remember how many times you fired on the shooting range (I will take the example of an average infantryman or motorized rifleman - whatever you want)? So, even if the commander himself shoots at least "7", but if you give three rounds twice per service, then what kind of educational process can we talk about?
    Only now, under Shoigu S., does this question seem to be starting to shift in terms of increasing the consumption of power supplies.
    Without constant practice, with the consumption of BP to calluses on the fingers of the equipment of the stores, there will be no positive results.
    Who started playing the guitar remembers what kind of corns on his fingers ...
  31. makarov
    makarov 23 October 2013 04: 01 New
    +1
    I give due respect to the author for his work, BUT ...... I think that the "Manual on Shooting Business" clearly describes the method of firing from different positions, and today it is correct and relevant. What is stated by the author, somewhat contradicts the methodology, therefore I question the conclusions. I will not argue, it is long and many pages, which is not provided for by the terms of the "comments".
  32. makarov
    makarov 23 October 2013 04: 02 New
    0
    I give due respect to the author for his work, BUT ...... I think that the "Manual on Shooting Business" clearly describes the method of firing from different positions, and today it is correct and relevant. What is stated by the author, somewhat contradicts the methodology, therefore I question the conclusions. I will not argue, it is long and many pages, which is not provided for by the terms of the "comments".
    1. Svateev
      Svateev 1 November 2013 14: 30 New
      0
      Quote: makarov
      in the "Manual on shooting business" the method of firing from different positions is clearly described, and today it is correct and relevant. What is stated by the author, somewhat contradicts the methodology,

      Actually, what is stated in the article contradicts the current method in only one:

      Now we shoot at the chest figure. Accordingly, with sights 4 or "P" up to a range of 400m. Accordingly, we rarely hit the main target.

      And the author suggests shooting at the head. Accordingly, with the 3 scope to the 300 range. We will hit for ANY purpose.

      Everything else remains: a direct shot; when shooting at a growth target, we aim the aiming point at the center of the target.
  33. Lesnik
    Lesnik 23 October 2013 10: 04 New
    0
    Quote: cth; fyn
    But the store does not warp? as far as I remember, they dangled quite easily in the store and it seems to me that by resting it in the ground you can catch a wedge due to the obliquely filed cartridge.

    And the "bullets" do not fall out? wassat
  34. RPK-74
    RPK-74 23 May 2014 00: 35 New
    0
    Yes!!! He served in the infantry in the GSVG 84-86g on the border of the Federal Republic of Germany machine gunner RPK-74 was shot to stupefaction for months up to three times a day (cartridges were thrown out and buried in the ground with zinc so as not to shoot) fool Weapons were shot by ourselves and each individually, to eliminate strabismus, curvature of some fighters wassat it was best to shoot at a constant ,, P ,, or offhand (before that they were trained angry ) at night they aimed at a stretched thread (between the front sight and the aiming bar) the phosphorus nozzles immediately died the commander of 3 platters of starls from the SVD from a mechanical sight (without optics) for a dispute with a cricket (on a beer box) fell into a coin with a denomination of 1 mark (probably 5 rubles) from a hundred meters we shot our weapons in a dash and they argued good drinks How did he even see her ?! True, the sun from the back was-maybe a glint? And we drank beer instead of kvass-cricket, pricked the starling and bought a box of beer for pregnant women (non-alcoholic) wassat drinks