Military Review

St. Petersburg fleet arrived at the Northern Fleet to continue testing

51
St. Petersburg fleet arrived at the Northern Fleet to continue testing

Today, the lead diesel-electric submarine (DEPL) "St. Petersburg" of project 677 arrived at the main base of Kola flotilla the diverse forces of the Northern Fleet (SF) for the further implementation of the test program.


In the city of Polyarny, at the berth of the connection of the diesel submarines of the Northern Fleet, a ceremonial meeting of diesel-electric submarines "St. Petersburg" was held.

Due to difficult hydrometeorological conditions in the Norwegian and Barents Seas, the transition of the St. Petersburg diesel-electric submarine from the Baltic Fleet to the Northern Sea lasted about three weeks. During the transition, the crew of a diesel-electric submarine overcame more than 1900 nautical miles.

In the near future, the crew of the St. Petersburg submarine will have to start working on a number of complex tests in the waters of the Barents Sea, including the deepwater ones.

The head boat "St. Petersburg" series of non-nuclear ships of the project 677 was laid on the stocks of the "Admiralty Shipyards" in December 1997. In April 2010, the boat was accepted into the Russian Navy for trial operation.

Submarine displacement - 1765 tons, length - 67 meters, width - 7 meters, underwater speed - 21 knot, depth - more than 300 meters, autonomy - 45 days. The submarine is equipped with six 533-mm torpedo tubes.

A feature of the 677 series of boats is the combination of small size and low noise level with powerful torpedo and torpedo-rocket armament. Boats of this series can counteract both underwater and surface ships, and are designed to protect naval bases, the sea coast and sea communications. In 2013, the Admiralteisky shipyards resumed the serial construction of the diesel submarines Sevastopol and Kronstadt of the 677 project.
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  1. Nevsky_ZU
    Nevsky_ZU 19 October 2013 12: 18
    +7
    The head boat "St. Petersburg" series of non-nuclear ships of the project 677 was laid on the stocks of the "Admiralty Shipyards" in December 1997. In April 2010, the boat was accepted into the Russian Navy for trial operation.


    Long harnessed what
    1. Very old
      Very old 19 October 2013 13: 24
      +4
      For a long time = yes, at least not so we will whine on the forum. All in joy
    2. GOOD
      GOOD 20 October 2013 08: 27
      0
      Alas .. reading only the dates of construction .. understand how much am everything was
      collapsed and plundered ... It took 4 years for the "peak-peak-peak" "NIMITS" ... And that's all,
      let it be a drop, but I believe that a drop of a good-quality Soviet "SHILA" drinks
  2. avt
    avt 19 October 2013 12: 26
    +1
    Maybe someone will clarify - debugged it or all the same?
    1. Edward72
      Edward72 19 October 2013 13: 29
      0
      If it came under its own power, it means debugged. And the next ones of this project are more likely to work on hydrogen.
      1. shpuntik
        shpuntik 19 October 2013 16: 43
        +5
        Major General
        Edward72 SU Today, 13:29 PM ↑
        If it came under its own power, it means debugged. And the next ones of this project are more likely to work on hydrogen.

        The next two, "Kronstadt" and "Petrozavodsk", will be diesel, the decision has been made so far, since VNEU will not be available soon.
        Debugging was hardly possible, judging by the speed of 3,8 knots and bad weather. Under water, bad weather does not interfere.
        That's the whole round dance. Only it is not clear who VNEU is engaged in, this is not a "Ruby" profile.
        1. rudolff
          rudolff 19 October 2013 16: 48
          +1
          It is Rubin who is engaged in this VNEU.
          1. shpuntik
            shpuntik 19 October 2013 17: 11
            +2
            rudolff SU Today, 16:48 ↑ New
            It is Rubin who is engaged in this VNEU.

            When did this design bureau deal with chemistry? They promise in 2016. An example of the GVK for Belousov - money was given to Lazurit, who has never done this. As a result, bought abroad, the English GVK.
        2. Edward72
          Edward72 20 October 2013 08: 26
          +2
          I don't know what the office is called, but the stand is located in Sormovo. There is also an experimental submarine B-20 "Sormovo" on the Northern Fleet.
          1. shpuntik
            shpuntik 20 October 2013 22: 12
            +1
            Edward72 SU Today, 08:26 PM ↑
            I don't know what the office is called, but the stand is located in Sormovo. There is also an experimental submarine B-20 "Sormovo" on the Northern Fleet.

            Here is an article, here the enterprise is indicated: Special Design Bureau of Boiler Building (SKBK), the question is the same, why is the general contractor "Rubin"? What is experienced is good. But, one VNEU has already been adopted, there is no information about it, it is not clear.
            In 1991, after extensive testing of the VNEU "Crystal-20" was adopted by the customer - the Ministry of Defense. But soon the collapse of the USSR followed, after which neither innovative power plants, nor submarines equipped with them were needed.

            http://sfw.so/1149023860-uvedomil-avtora-zhdu-ispravleniy-kogda-vernutsya-pirani
            .html
    2. Russ69
      Russ69 19 October 2013 13: 47
      0
      Quote: avt
      Maybe someone will clarify - debugged it or all the same?

      If ordered, new, then most likely debugged ...
  3. Corsair
    Corsair 19 October 2013 12: 27
    +2
    During the transition, the crew of a diesel-electric submarine covered more than 1900 nautical miles.

    In the near future, the crew of the St. Petersburg submarine will have to start working on a number of complex tests in the waters of the Barents Sea, including the deepwater ones.

    The transition of three and a half thousand kilometers is already indicative in itself.
    I really want the boat to live up to expectations, and as they say, "got accustomed" to the fleet.
    Updating ships is necessary as air ...
    1. sub307
      sub307 19 October 2013 12: 39
      +3
      We "like air" need "yesterday" nuclear submarines that can do without air for 15-20 days, then bish with VNEU. Without them, we no longer "fit" into the ranks of the "leaders" in this area.
      1. Corsair
        Corsair 20 October 2013 11: 42
        -1
        Quote: sub307
        We "like air" need "yesterday" nuclear submarines that can do without air for 15-20 days, then bish with VNEU. Without them, we no longer "fit" into the ranks of the "leaders" in this area.

        I am sure there WILL BE "anaerobes" too, and I hope the BEST IN THE WORLD.

        How else?
        1. Corsair
          Corsair 21 October 2013 15: 36
          0
          Quote: Corsair
          I am sure there WILL BE "anaerobes" too, and I hope the BEST IN THE WORLD.

          How else?


          Someone doubting the ability of the military-industrial complex (or not seeing the need for the Navy for air-independent submarines?), "Minus" ... Or is the reason different?

          Explain, motivate "what you have done" lol
  4. Edward72
    Edward72 19 October 2013 12: 38
    +2
    Finally, the long-suffering boat will do its own thing. 16 years of fine-tuning, of course, with too much.
    1. lelikas
      lelikas 19 October 2013 12: 41
      +4
      Not 16, 3 years, construction does not count.
  5. AVV
    AVV 19 October 2013 12: 42
    +1
    Most importantly, the process has begun, not as fast as we would like, but still !!!
  6. Lech from our city
    Lech from our city 19 October 2013 12: 47
    0
    The main thing is that this boat justifies itself in combat capabilities and then it will be seen.
  7. Serebryakov. 75
    Serebryakov. 75 19 October 2013 12: 49
    +1
    Recently, any little step towards updating, replenishment pleases!
  8. ivshubarin
    ivshubarin 19 October 2013 12: 49
    0
    So fix the problem
    1. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 19 October 2013 13: 43
      +3
      Quote: ivshubarin
      So fix the problem

      The boat was taken into trial operation by the fleet. Now, apparently, after the decision of the Civil Code of the Navy will be credited to the Federation Council. The main problem (anaerobic control) is not resolved. But, perhaps, some of its elements have already been installed and will be tested in the north. I believe some new REO is also installed. Otherwise, it is not clear what she did in St. Petersburg for so long.
  9. MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 19 October 2013 13: 01
    0
    Our north and the Arctic is our main stronghold of Russia .. There is a harsh climate and only Russians (Russians) survive (and most importantly build our military power) .. Chinese Anglo-Saxons, etc. do not survive for a long time .. !!! And the submarine, although small, but I think it will be removed (with the appropriate crew) Good luck to you divers so that the dive and ascent always equals ..! And most importantly, in which case torpedoes and rockets always find a target ..!
    1. Mikado
      Mikado 19 October 2013 18: 04
      +2
      Yes, the Norwegians, Swedes, Finns, Danes, Canadians - all have died out or are becoming extinct.
  10. MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 19 October 2013 13: 25
    +2
    Quote: MIKHAN
    Our north and the Arctic is our main stronghold of Russia .. There is a harsh climate and only Russians (Russians) survive (and most importantly build our military power) .. Chinese Anglo-Saxons, etc. do not survive for a long time .. !!! And the submarine, although small, but I think it will be removed (with the appropriate crew) Good luck to you divers so that the dive and ascent always equals ..! And most importantly, in which case torpedoes and rockets always find a target ..!

    Minus for the Russians ..? I didn’t want to offend anyone ..
  11. VohaAhov
    VohaAhov 19 October 2013 13: 57
    +1
    In the North, Project 877 diesel-electric submarines Novosibirsk were decommissioned. St. Petersburg is still in trial operation. Problems are gradually being solved. Before commissioning, they are going to conduct deep-sea tests, which could not have been done in the Baltic.
  12. rudolff
    rudolff 19 October 2013 14: 13
    +4
    And actually, what is the joy? As it was in trial operation, it remained. As it passed tests, so it goes. By the way, I have already passed the deep sea to the limit. Is that to check for "acclimatization" to the northern latitudes. The VNEU elements are not tested on it, new storage batteries will be run in only on the next two cases.
  13. MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 19 October 2013 14: 33
    -1
    Quote: rudolff
    And actually, what is the joy? As it was in trial operation, it remained. As it passed tests, so it goes. By the way, I have already passed the deep sea to the limit. Is that to check for "acclimatization" to the northern latitudes. The VNEU elements are not tested on it, new storage batteries will be run in only on the next two cases.

    You are a "comrade" .. (judging by the flag) or you are trolling, but otherwise you are a traitor .. You can take offense and call me "Hurray-patriot political instructor, etc.) Here is an example for you" professor ".. he exposes a photo and is ready to fight for the fact that Israel has the most .. (although there are enough problems there ..) I respect him for that! And we have all sorts of sycophants. and what to do ??? Calm down!
  14. rudolff
    rudolff 19 October 2013 15: 30
    13
    Mikhan, I spent more than one year in a solid building, including on diesel-electric submarines starting from 613, etc., so it’s not for me to tell you stories about what treason is. The boat cannot be pulled out for design indicators and it does not yet meet the stated requirements. Therefore, the terms of trial operation are extended. It will be included in the first line without any operational restrictions, then it will be possible to talk about strengthening the fleet.
  15. UVB
    UVB 19 October 2013 15: 38
    0
    Due to difficult weather conditions in the Norwegian and Barents seas, the transition of the St. Petersburg diesel-electric submarine from the Baltic Fleet to the North lasted about three weeks.
    Interestingly, the transition was made all the time in the water position, or were there dives?
    1. GOOD
      GOOD 20 October 2013 09: 27
      +2
      Once, in the mid-80s, he took part in driving two rubber bands (641B) from KMOLZ
      to Polyarny, the transitions (October-December) took 14-16 days, plus or minus a day or two to hide and seek with the Orions ... As far as I remember, the dates of the passage of the Strait zone and
      compulsory movement on the surface, clearly agreed upon with NATO.
      1. rudolff
        rudolff 20 October 2013 10: 58
        +2
        From Finnish in the underwater one could even reach Rostock. But the torrential zone cannot be slipped unnoticed anyway, and there are a lot of shallow water narrownesses. To Kattegat ave. Or even to Skagerrak in the surface. We were still at school by laying a course through the torrential zone at exams. good
        1. GOOD
          GOOD 20 October 2013 15: 03
          0
          Exactly .. from Powerful to traverse Rostock it was possible .. but not mine
          to ocean monsters .. current canned food from the 25th brigade or Liepaja analogs ..
          After all, the discussed is 1.8 times less .. for all indicators wink
        2. GOOD
          GOOD 20 October 2013 15: 31
          0
          We were still at school by laying a course through the torrential zone at exams. good
          Well, yes !!! when the turtleneck in UKOPP passed .. so many horror stories about
          Nurchek navigators ... heard enough sad
          they were waiting for an order on the Rostock beam to enter NATO’s territorial waters for 5 days .. (apparently, our navigational team studied the Fairway so deeply) .. well, what ... I DECLINE THE OFFICIALS FROM THE FIGHT FLEET ..
  16. Migari
    Migari 19 October 2013 15: 42
    -1
    The first samples of any equipment, it’s like the first pancake is lumpy, and they remain in a test status for a long time, refinement and improvement take place during the test, and the longer it is finalized, the better the products of this series will leave the slipway.
    1. GOOD
      GOOD 20 October 2013 15: 17
      +1
      The first samples of "this technique" covered the bottom of the Baltic, North, Norwegian ...
      almost a hundred years there have been improvements and refinements .. for no one changed the principle ...
      BUT ... quality ... over time .. does not change In principle .. that is
      physical limit ...
  17. MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 19 October 2013 15: 47
    -5
    Quote: rudolff
    Mikhan, I spent more than one year in a solid building, including on diesel-electric submarines starting from 613, etc., so it’s not for me to tell you stories about what treason is. The boat cannot be pulled out for design indicators and it does not yet meet the stated requirements. Therefore, the terms of trial operation are extended. It will be included in the first line without any operational restrictions, then it will be possible to talk about strengthening the fleet.

    Decided to blurt out all this in interest? I would have such linguistic clever people ... I would drive from the fleet .. and away! I am always surprised at our Russian simplicity .. They talk all that is possible and impossible .. Snowden is supposedly promoted in general terms .. And these are all blurted out thinking that they are specialists. You still write pancakes for launching warheads here !!! they will immediately ply for you in marshals (NATO virtual) .. I'm not an expert but for your languages ​​.. Well, I can’t think so ..
    1. GOOD
      GOOD 20 October 2013 17: 45
      0
      Decided to blurt out all this in interest? I would have such linguistic clever people ... I would drive from the fleet .. and away! I am always surprised at our Russian simplicity .. They talk all that is possible and impossible .. Snowden is supposedly promoted in general terms .. And these are all blurted out thinking that they are specialists. You still write pancakes for launching warheads here !!! they will immediately ply for you in marshals (NATO virtual) .. I'm not an expert but for your languages ​​.. Well, I can’t think so ..
      absolutely agree with you! when, after 2 years on the site ... I decided to appear ... then after writing top-secret letters and numbers (641B) I was afraid I myself
      MYSELF ... AS I DO NEXT WITH 2 CHILDREN: 9 TI, AND 2 YEARS ... LIVE MORE ???
      REALLY MEN A WEDDING GIFT-RM57 + 22from .K C. will help to live ???
      MIKHAN .. you forgive the old woman .. but this YOUR phrase "-they are talking all that is possible and impossible .. the pipian" betrays a small neurasthenic in you ... believe me .. when we are the remnants of the former luxury of the military
      Russian. Gathering 6 times a year. On our MILITARY
      CEMETERY ... FOR SUMMARY, personally, THEIR analysts will GRAY .. read the conversion reports of their personnel;) .. maybe when we get to know each other ..
  18. rudolff
    rudolff 19 October 2013 16: 27
    +8
    Meehan, well, why this opus? The fact that the boat of this project does not meet the stated requirements and in its current form the fleet does not need at one time the Commander-in-Chief declared. Therefore, you can compare it with Snowden. For my specialty, you will not find details in my comments. Specifically for this project, the situation can be corrected by new batteries on the second and third buildings. If Rubin manages to bring VNEU to the third building, it will be almost fantastic.
  19. shpuntik
    shpuntik 19 October 2013 16: 34
    +2
    Due to difficult hydrometeorological conditions in the Norwegian and Barents Seas, the transition of the St. Petersburg diesel-electric submarine from the Baltic Fleet to the Northern Sea lasted about three weeks. During the transition, the crew of a diesel-electric submarine overcame more than 1900 nautical miles.

    This speed was: 3,8 knots. In the surface position? If so, then nothing good. On the one hand, the first, there have always been problems, on the other, they pull the cat by the tail for a long time: since 1997. As I understand it: accepted as a training.
    1. rudolff
      rudolff 19 October 2013 17: 05
      +2
      As an educational, too expensive a pleasure. It will not work to bring the boat now, they will adjust the project to the first average repair.
      1. shpuntik
        shpuntik 19 October 2013 17: 45
        +1
        rudolff SU Today, 17:05 ↑ New
        As an educational, too expensive a pleasure. It will not work to bring the boat now, they will adjust the project to the first average repair.

        Or bring to mind the all-mode e / engine, or wait for VNEU, replace the compartment.
        By the way:
        "For the creation of anaerobic installations with ECH in 1998, CDB MT" Rubin "undertook together with Rocket and Space Corporation Energia ".
        http://sfw.so/1149023860-uvedomil-avtora-zhdu-ispravleniy-kogda-vernutsya-pirani


        .html


        1. PLO
          PLO 19 October 2013 17: 53
          0
          Or bring to mind the all-mode e / engine, or wait for VNEU, replace the compartment.

          you confuse something
          VNEU does not mean abandonment of the electric motor
          VNEU will replace the diesel engines that are now used to generate electricity
          1. shpuntik
            shpuntik 19 October 2013 18: 01
            +1
            olp RU Today, 17:53 ↑ New
            you confuse something
            VNEU does not mean abandonment of the electric motor

            VNEU pilot-2016, in 2018 they will deliver, maybe by this time there will be repairs, they will replace the electric engine. If VNEU is not ready, they will leave it as it is.
            Doesn't mean agree.
            1. PLO
              PLO 19 October 2013 18: 06
              +1
              If VNEU is not ready, they will leave it as it is.

              which means replace.
              and who will twist the screw?
              judging by the available information, the type of VNEU that we experience is an ECG, i.e. an electrochemical generator that will receive electricity through diesel fuel reforming, but the electric motor will still twist the screws
              1. rudolff
                rudolff 19 October 2013 18: 39
                +4
                Yes, we have VNEU on electrochemical generation. All-mode engines are Stirling engines. For some reason, ours did not want to go this way, although the Stirlings are considered more promising.
                1. shpuntik
                  shpuntik 19 October 2013 19: 25
                  +2
                  rudolff SU Today, 18:39 ↑ New
                  Yes, we have VNEU on electrochemical generation. All-mode engines are Stirling engines.

                  Rudolph hi Our VNEU should be more impressive, judging by the conversations. Diesel fuel will be split directly. "All-mode", I was talking about the e / motor with permanent magnets, this is a new unit, low noise and gives fuel economy.
                2. PLO
                  PLO 19 October 2013 19: 26
                  0
                  Yes, we have VNEU on electrochemical generation. All-mode engines are Stirling engines. For some reason, ours did not want to go this way, although the Stirlings are considered more promising.

                  Well, at least not along the Germans' path with their hydrogen, at least they use diesel fuel)
              2. shpuntik
                shpuntik 19 October 2013 19: 22
                +1
                olp RU Today, 18:06 ↑
                If VNEU is not ready, they will leave it as it is.
                which means replace.
                and who will twist the screw?

                It’s the same as diesel now.
                If VNEU is not ready, they will leave it as it is. If they can do electric power, they will. What is not clear ?? Now the problem is with e / dv. You want to say that at the same time do and e / dv. and VNEU? I think it’s unlikely, therefore I said: either this or that.
                1. PLO
                  PLO 19 October 2013 19: 32
                  0
                  It’s the same as diesel now.

                  super good
                  tell me how it works air dependent diesel under water?


                  Now the problem is with e / dv. You want to say that at the same time do and e / dv. and VNEU? I think it’s unlikely, therefore I said: either this or that.

                  figure out what VNEU (ECG) is and why it is needed, as well as why the electric motor and diesel are now used on diesel-electric submarines)
                  judging by your words you do not quite understand the principle of action
                  1. shpuntik
                    shpuntik 19 October 2013 19: 35
                    +1
                    olp RU Today, 19:32 ↑ New
                    It’s the same as diesel now.
                    super good
                    tell me how does air-dependent diesel engine work underwater?

                    Yes, no, I understand just ... Under the RDP, for example. Is there a diesel on SPb now or not?

                    On the "Varshavyanka" diagram, numbers indicate: 1 - hydroacoustic complex, 2 - shaft for the entrance to the enclosure of the hydroacoustic complex, 3 - torpedo tubes, 4 - spare torpedoes on racks, 5 - bow horizontal rudder, 6 - navigation bridge, 7 - anti-aircraft periscopes, 8 - retractable devices, 9 - gas outlet, 10 — diesel generator, 11 — electric motor, 12 - aft horizontal steering wheel, 13 - propeller, 14 - vertical steering wheel, 15 - battery pits.
                    1. PLO
                      PLO 19 October 2013 19: 42
                      0
                      Yes, no, I just understand ... Is there a diesel on "SPb" now or not?

                      worth, that's just the point
                      when the boat is in the surface position, the diesel engine in the generator mode charges the batteries from which the electric motor is powered

                      in the underwater position, the diesel naturally does not work, and the electric motor is still powered by the battery

                      when using VNEU type ECG, electricity is generated chemically, due to this, the batteries are charged from which the electric motor works
                      1. shpuntik
                        shpuntik 19 October 2013 19: 49
                        +1
                        olp RU Today, 19:42 ↑ New olp RU Today, 19:42 ↑ New
                        worth, that's just the point
                        when the boat is in the surface position, the diesel engine in the generator mode charges the batteries from which the electric motor is powered

                        Who is arguing? laughing Why do I need a brain?
                        Accumulators are charged under water, the diesel engine works under the RPD, secretly, at the re-depth depth. Now the problem is not with diesel engines, but with a new engine, as far as I know.
                      2. PLO
                        PLO 19 October 2013 20: 02
                        -1
                        Why do I need a brain?

                        you are doing fine without me)

                        the problem is that you famously decided to remove the electric motor from the submarine by replacing it with VNEU ECG
                      3. shpuntik
                        shpuntik 19 October 2013 20: 13
                        +1
                        olp RU Today, 20:02 ↑ New
                        you are doing fine without me)
                        the problem is that you famously decided to remove the electric motor from the submarine by replacing it with VNEU ECG

                        The phrase about the repair, it was necessary to understand this: either they will do one or the other. fellow
                        There is a misunderstanding and a highly artistic short syllable. The main thing is not an artistic whistle. wassat hi
                      4. PLO
                        PLO 19 October 2013 20: 23
                        -1
                        The phrase about the repair, it was necessary to understand this: either they will do one or the other. fellow
                        There is a misunderstanding and a highly artistic short syllable. The main thing is not an artistic whistle

                        your curly twist will not help you winked

                        the problem is that either one or the other will not work
                        the electric motor that you so stubbornly wanted to replace with VNEU will not disappear even theoretically
                      5. shpuntik
                        shpuntik 20 October 2013 22: 01
                        +1
                        olp RU Yesterday, 20:23 ↑ New
                        the electric motor that you so stubbornly wanted to replace with VNEU will not disappear even theoretically

                        Listen, dear! Are you trying to prove to me that I have confused VNEU with an E / Engine? I have already chewed everything for you, instead of saying thank you, you are trying to convict me of something, say that I am dodging.
                        Well, this is arrogance on your part. Therefore, go away, away from the forest, and do not rosin the brains of people, do not clog the ether. Let’s, bye, good luck, so to speak ... hi
                      6. PLO
                        PLO 20 October 2013 23: 49
                        -1
                        I have nothing to prove to you. you yourself have already proven your writings.
                        you should also learn courtesy.
                        your brains rosin is useless for their absence.
                        do not be ill
              3. GOOD
                GOOD 20 October 2013 13: 19
                -1
                Sorry newbie? the problem with the RDP was always and for everyone ...
                Firstly, the constant excitement (from 3 points) of the surface ...
                ..especially in the northern latitudes .. Secondly: recharging DEPL in the ocean is associated with the necessary, alas, noise problems ...
                .. at one time it was brilliantly decided at the expense of the so-called auxiliary fleet .. bully
              4. shpuntik
                shpuntik 20 October 2013 23: 11
                +1
                Corporal
                GOOD SU Today, 13:19 ↑
                Sorry newbie? the problem with the RDP was always and for everyone ...

                No, I’m not sorry, why would it bully ?
                It's not about the problem with the RDP, but that it was the answer to one comrade, to the question:
                Army General
                olp RU Yesterday, 19:32 ↑
                super good
                tell me how does air-dependent diesel engine work underwater?
                He cited the example of the RDP. See the conversation thread.
                Second point:
                .. at one time it was brilliantly decided at the expense of the so-called auxiliary fleet ..

                Well, what did you want to say that the RDP system is not needed? It is sometimes problematic, but how without it, is there an alternative? Besides how to use the auxiliary vessel, does it not unmask?
            2. GOOD
              GOOD 20 October 2013 17: 12
              -1
              Sorry newbie ?? flag YOU to charge .. for example in the North Sea .. on. well in October .. at least ..
              once seriously discussed with the guys from Gorky
              float choke .. but. like any update,
              not moving towards further autonomy of the ship
              not developed ..
  • MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 19 October 2013 16: 55
    +2
    Quote: rudolff
    Meehan, well, why this opus? The fact that the boat of this project does not meet the stated requirements and in its current form the fleet does not need at one time the Commander-in-Chief declared. Therefore, you can compare it with Snowden. For my specialty, you will not find details in my comments. Specifically for this project, the situation can be corrected by new batteries on the second and third buildings. If Rubin manages to bring VNEU to the third building, it will be almost fantastic.

    I apologize .. I fell on you a little .. Waiting for your answer, I’m sorry. hi I minus you with ardent return with apologies ..
  • rudolff
    rudolff 19 October 2013 16: 58
    +3
    Meehan, nothing, everything is in order. I'm not offended.
  • MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 19 October 2013 17: 06
    +1
    Quote: rudolff
    Meehan, nothing, everything is in order. I'm not offended.

    You really try there guys .. I understand that it is difficult and a mess .. and yet! We ordinary people are very nervous ..
  • Technologist
    Technologist 20 October 2013 09: 43
    0
    Quote: Nevsky_ZU
    Long harnessed

    So thanks to our "helmsmen", though they did not disassemble it on the slipway.
  • GOOD
    GOOD 20 October 2013 09: 48
    0
    You really try there guys .. I understand that it is difficult and a mess .. and yet! We ordinary people are very nervous ..
    SUPPORT !!! It’s not scary to write it, lads, but time, apparently, is running out ...
  • stranik72
    stranik72 20 October 2013 10: 15
    +1
    Quote: sub307
    We "like air" need "yesterday" nuclear submarines that can do without air for 15-20 days, then bish with VNEU. Without them, we no longer "fit" into the ranks of the "leaders" in this area.

    I read the Germans of this class submarines under water can be up to 45 days, and more autonomy. So, as for the advanced workers, it seems that it’s not tomorrow, but as usual we are now talking by 2020, and there you know.
    1. GOOD
      GOOD 20 October 2013 16: 08
      +1
      in my time of the (80s) autonomy .. average, then not new projects
      10-14 days (DEPL) .. still enough to last dive ...
      .. in which case (the phrase from the site..well that..clear) .. with my Soviet weapons
      put half of the 6th, 7th fleet .. uh ... well some sort of book
      type of Republic ... and when we worked out tasks in pairs .... well, what is there ..
      very old (sorry) insanity suddenly attacked ..
      The last thing I remember from the Union is NATO’s very terrible claims to the noise of our DEPL am
      that’s it, according to rumors, when Yeltsin brought them .. first of all ..
      cut my RPL ... recourse
  • rudolff
    rudolff 20 October 2013 11: 40
    +5
    Shpuntik, Olp. If you will, I’ll insert my five cents regarding anaerobic plants. A few words about VNEU, which Rubin has been creating inspirationally for many years in cooperation with Energy. And diesel engines, and generators, and electric motors, and AB remain in place and do not disappear anywhere. ECG is not able to replace them completely either on the surface or when moving under water with medium / full speed or active maneuvering. Only economical silent operation in several knots. The essence of the used oxygen-hydrogen electrochemical generator is to obtain a constant electric current through a redox reaction. That is, without the combustion process and mechanical movement. The conversion reaction occurs in fuel cells, oxygen and hydrogen serve as reagents. It was with fuel cells that we had the biggest problems. I don’t know how it will be in the end, but we had preliminary negotiations with the German Siemens regarding their supplies. Cryogenic oxygen (a cryogenic installation developed by NPO Energia, greetings from Buran!) Will be stored in separate containers, but hydrogen is an interesting question. The Germans use bound hydrogen in the intermetallic compound, but we intend to extract it on board by reforming from diesel fuel. That, in principle, is very reasonable, given that diesel fuel provides the operation of onboard diesel engines. The current obtained in the ECG can be supplied not only to the batteries, but also directly to the propeller electric motors, including auxiliary ones. The entire installation (VNEU) requires a separate compartment for the Rubin project. In a nutshell, something like this. But in addition to VNEU on ECG and Stirling's all-mode heat engines, there are also installations on closed-type diesels and also closed-type turbines. And they tried to implement the most uncomplicated version of VNEU at the very beginning of the last century, simply by placing cylinders with compressed air on the boat! good
    1. PLO
      PLO 20 October 2013 12: 11
      +1
      Thank you for the clarification. hi
    2. GOOD
      GOOD 20 October 2013 16: 43
      0
      I apologize for the practice of an idiot .. can you in two or three for a shell-shock
      explain schematically why your VNEU is better than a bunch worked out for decades:
      "diesel-electro .." ???
      the recent self-flooding of India's PLD .. or like me young
      the locals visited the 1st pier of the 4th squadron ... in 1983 ..
      1. Misantrop
        Misantrop 20 October 2013 17: 02
        0
        Quote: HOFF
        why your VNEU is better than a bunch worked out over decades:
        "diesel-electro .." ???
        The small battery capacity, which does not allow either to give a good move under water, or to spend more than a day in the underwater position is the main disadvantage of the classical scheme. Well, a purely chemical system of air regeneration
  • 1c-inform-city
    1c-inform-city 20 October 2013 14: 21
    +2
    Judging by the publications, our outside has been running in since last year on the Sarov.
    Everywhere it is indicated that hydrogen will be received from the diesel engine. Only in some places it slips that a small auxiliary nuclear reactor will stand (as I understand it, for the splitting of the diesel engine).
    PS Information flashed that the Germans recognized their installations as dead ends and would not produce them anymore. (Very expensive operation, comparable to apl and low reliability). Now all the efforts are devoted to creating lithium batteries digestible at a price. By the way, ours are going to install them too.