The completion of the cruiser "Ukraine" will cost 1.4 billion hryvnia.

To complete the 1164 “Admiral Lobov” project (former “Ukraine”) missile cruiser costs almost half a billion hryvnias. This is stated in the response of the Minister of Defense to the deputy's request for the freedom worker M. Golovko. The ship is not part of the Naval Forces Command. Its completion is considered inappropriate. Prospects to sell the cruiser of the Russian army is not yet supported by interest from the Russian Federation.

We will remind, RKR "Admiral Lobov" is now in a high degree of readiness located in the territory of the plant named after the XXUMX communard (Nikolaev). On the ship there is no strike armament and the ship version of the C-61 air defense system, which is produced in the Russian Federation.

Comments

[Alexander Romanov]

The title is 1.4 billion dollars, and the article is about hryvnias. Yes, and what do we need it for, it’s all rusty already. It’s easier and cheaper to build a new one.

[cheerful]

"It will be easier and cheaper to build a new one." By about 2035 I have not heard about the construction of missile cruisers yet, but what are they going to ?!

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: bodriy

I have not heard about the construction of missile cruisers yet, but what are they going to ?!

Yes, it seems not, but why take junk.

[UVB]

"Admiral Lobov" is almost 10 years younger than "Admiral Ustinov", which is now under repair. And it is not in such a bad condition, let the rusty smudges on the sides not be misled. Definitely, it is necessary to finish building, because even destroyers will not be shining in the near future. And it is much easier to modernize this ship than the one in operation, in the latter only a lot of forces and means are needed to clean up. By the way, 1,2 billion hryvnia is $ 150 million.

[domokl]

Quote: UVB

Definitely, you need to finish building, because even the destroyers in the near future do not shine.

It’s not included in the budget for a penny for this purpose. So yes, 20 of the year will not suit him. And most likely they will sell it as scrap metal. There were proposals, but so far not too tempting ...

[ATATA]

Quote: UVB

By the way, 1,2 billion hryvnias is $ 150 million.

The ship lacks strike weapons and a ship version of the S - 300 air defense system, which is produced in the Russian Federation.

Only it will cost several times more.
Not to mention the complete revision of all other systems.

[APASUS]

Quote: UVB

And to modernize this ship is much easier than the one in operation, in the latter it is only necessary to clean up a lot of manpower and means. By the way, 1,2 billion hryvnias is $ 150 million.

In the conditions of the most severe shortage of funds, corruption, incomprehensible political and unstable economic situation, where will Ukraine get these funds?
It was logical to sell, but again here politicians want to cut down their gesheft.

[Rakti-kali]

Quote: UVB

Definitely need to finish building

Does Russia have the "main caliber" for him? IMHO, it is more logical to develop and build a ship complex with the latest weapons and equipment, than to finish building this, albeit worthy, but rapidly aging ship.

[Fortnite]

Quote: UVB

10 years younger than "Admiral Ustinov"

Actually, D.F.Ustinov was a marshal ...

[Geisenberg]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

Quote: bodriy

I have not heard about the construction of missile cruisers yet, but what are they going to ?!

Yes, it seems not, but why take junk.

Purely my opinion. In general, there is nothing - neither new nor old, they are not building anything similar and are not going to. So you have to take it.

[morpex]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

Yes, it seems not, but why take junk.

That's right Sasha. He really doesn’t need Russia for nothing. Russia has a damn lot of ships in storage. I will show one. And who are interested, follow the link. What you saw will greatly surprise you.
Marine muscles of the Russian Navy under repair http://www.yaplakal.com/forum2/topic662580.html ...

[wk-083]

That's right, their atomic beauties rust it hurts to watch!

[velikoros-xnumx]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

Yes, it seems not, but why take junk.

The price of the issue. If, like China, "Varyag" at the price of scrap metal or close, then it makes sense.

[Akim]

Quote: velikoros-xnumx

If, like China, "Varyag" at the price of scrap metal or close, then it makes sense.

15 years ago, the time was different, the money was different - then the hungry years went by.

[domokl]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

In the name 1.4 billion dollars, and in the article we are talking about hryvnias

hi Sash. We really don't need it. We have Moscow, and they are of the same type. But for prestige, at least Ukraine needs to have something for it ...

[Kibalchish]

It is possible and necessary to complete. But not for one and a half billion. This is the price of a third of an aircraft carrier, if for that kind of money you can build from scratch.
In any case, the cruiser will have to be seriously modernized. Until it is completed, "Moscow" will have to be written off at least because of old age. Just a replacement will arrive in time. AT

[domokl]

Quote: Kibalchish

... Until it is completed, "Moscow" will have to be written off at least because of old age. Just a replacement will arrive in time. AT

Until Moscow gets old, the project will turn into history. And then, as far as I know, the cruiser belongs to Ukraine.
Something tells me that his fate will emigrate to India or Kmtai ...

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: Kibalchish

It is possible and necessary to complete. But not for one and a half billion.

For a half billion what?

[Mista_dj]

No one will write off Moscow!
The united building - will survive all of us!
Just change the electronic filling and update the weapon.
As long as such ships are part of the Navy, they will be respected by everyone in the Bosphorus too, huddling to the shores!

[wk-083]

Yes, if you write off Moscow, Ch.F will die completely.

[apostol88]

And what is an aircraft carrier worth 5.2 billion hryvnia? Or they didn’t even look that it says 1.4 billion UAH. (175 million dollars)

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: domokl

.Ukraine, for prestige, at least something to be needed ...

Great Sasha, yesterday I laid out a chip for prestige. Well, so come on neighing Ukraine will soon receive an aircraft carrierOctober 15, Kiev. At Bankova shared the good news. Viktor Yanukovych signed a decree on the modernization of An-2 aircraft to the deck version for the needs of the Ukrainian Navy. CARRIER NAVY BE! - They said in the presidential administration of Ukraine. And these are not fantasiesazlok.livejournal.com/738536.html

[alexng]

Explanatory dictionary.
God is the creator of Ukraine, and Yanukovych is its user.

[Revolver]

Quote: alexneg

Explanatory dictionary.
God is the creator of Ukraine, and Yanukovych is its user.

Every nation deserves the government that it has. Although in this case, most likely the government has a people in all imaginable positions. Unfortunately...

[Coward]

And what has Varyag already written off?

[wk-083]

Varangian on the Pacific Fleet.

[self-propelled]

Quote: domokl

.Ukraine, for prestige, at least something to be needed ...

Ukraine does not need it all the more - strike weapons and air defense systems for the cruiser are made in Russia. Yes, and the operating cost for the budget of the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense I think will be excessive (I am silent about the cost of completion)

[Edward72]

If Ukraine will finish building it, then it will remain without fat and burners. By the way, the ship is 95% ready so it makes sense to finish building the Russian Federation.

[Akim]

Quote: domokl

.But Ukraine, for prestige, at least something needs to be had.

And what will the Navy do with it?

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: Akim

And what will the fleet do with it?

Everything is clear. In short, in the wreck

[Akim]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

In short scrap

Preservation never hurts. Argentina won the cruiser, which was mothballed in the mid-80s.

[PiP]

Quote: domokl

But Ukraine, for prestige, at least something to be needed ...

Well, yes - "show-off is more expensive than money." Well, they will leave it to themselves, they will finish the construction, maybe even replenish the three hundredth, and then what? Should we stand at the wall or plow the "vastness of the deep and endless" Black Sea? Why would Ukraine have a potential target for any neighboring state?
ss
And who has heard of the long voyages of the ships of the Ukrainian Navy?
Besides:
On September 24, 2013, a frigate of the Naval Forces of the Armed Forces of Ukraine “Getman Sagaidachny” with a Ka-27 helicopter and a special-purpose group (viewing team) on board went on a long campaign to participate in anti-piracy operations in the area of ​​the Gulf of Aden, the Red Sea and the western Indian Ocean. This was September 24, 2013 the press service of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine.

[domokl]

I looked at the cons and came to a simple conclusion ... The incompetence of some respondents is striking. The minus is only because it did not name the country that the cruiser belongs to. in people it’s taken by the head The heart is pumping blood

[Kyrgyz]

At the expense of it is better possible but not cheaper it's one hundred percent

[edge]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

It will be easier and cheaper to build a new one.

1-on what shipyards will you build (ours are all loaded to the stop), 2-factor of time (it was needed yesterday, and today it is needed immediately) because it alone is capable of gouging the whole aug, and those brought together will force the amers to bring down from the Pacific or Atlantic in cabotage. Well and 3 is a ship of supremacy at sea, no one will ever have such .....

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: hert

1-on which shipyards will you build (ours are all loaded to the stop)

I will not build, but there is a shipyard, after the 90s there is a problem with personnel.

Quote: hert

for he alone is capable of gouging the whole aug, and those brought together will force the amers to bring down from the Pacific or Atlantic into cabotage

Everyone will be directly angered and scattered, and those who do not have time to escape will jump from fear into the water from their aircraft carriers

Quote: hert

Well, 3 is a ship of excellence at sea, no one will ever have such .....

Hello, in the tank is the project of which year?

[Alekseev]

Quote: hert

for he alone is capable of gouging the whole aug, and those brought together will force the amers to bring down from the Pacific or Atlantic into cabotage.

Stop nonsense to drive!
If not a sailor, then at least a smart book should be read ...
But the cruiser, if they give it back cheaply, it is necessary to finish building.
But you need to understand that you will only buy a body and, possibly, cars requiring modernization.
Add-ons and the hull must be redone for new weapons, radar. Turbines may also be repairable, designed for Russian spare parts.
That is, its price should not be much more expensive than the metal from which it is made.

[KazaK Bo]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

It will be easier and cheaper to build a new one.

I agree. There is logic in your post. That's just WHERE to build such a ship? The shipyards in the Baltic are loaded until 2030 and with the new program it will not fit in there. On D.V. Such shipbuilding at the ZVEZDA shipyard will only be possible in the region of 2020 (interview with the Deputy Minister in charge of shipbuilding on TV Russia 24 October 17.10.13, 300), when new dry docks for a tonnage of up to 000 tons will be built ... And what should we do if the Turkish Navy is already more powerful than ours on the Black Sea? What if such a ship is needed "YESTERDAY" and not "tomorrow"?

[common man]

Quote: KazaK Bo

That's just WHERE to build a similar ship?

Cases with machines can be ordered abroad. Put the filling at your place. As an option, we are building the hull in South Korea, completing the construction afloat on the Zvezda. I am waiting for a reasoned opinion of professionals.

[common man]

I asked for arguments, not stupid minuses. , I want arguments for and against this approach.

[Su-9]

The new Mistral was worth 700 million euros. Reaching a cruiser costs 140 million euros (it is convenient to consider, divide the hryvnia by 10). The question of course is that the Russian Navy is needed?

[Mista_dj]

Do not be silly, dear!
Project 1164 is a great cruiser!
And Russia will always need such cruisers!
In its current state, it is just a building, which is stuffed with almost any equipment and go!
With its presence in Sevastopol, such a cruiser regulates the situation from Georgians to Turks with Romanians.
What do you mean is not needed !?
Cardboard ticonderoga to buy !?
Lobov will be completed and there will be a partner for the cruiser "Moskva" for work in the Mediterranean.

And for rust - it’s generally funny!
Washes / dyes + normal tidy, and at the parade in honor of Fleet Day will sparkle like a new penny!

[ATATA]

Quote: Mista_Dj

Project 1164 is a great cruiser!
And Russia will need such cruisers always!

You would at least think about the meaning of what you write.

Quote: Mista_Dj

Do not be silly, dear!

[Mista_dj]

I'm thinking.
Try it and you do the same.
Grammar errors will be less.

[ATATA]

Quote: Mista_Dj

I'm thinking.
Try it and you do the same.
Grammar errors will be less.

[morpex]

Quote: ATATA

Quote: Mista_DjThe 1164 project is a great cruiser! And Russia will always need such cruisers! Would you at least think about the meaning of what you write. Quote: Mista_DjDo not say nonsense, dear!

Mosva ", Former" GLORY ".Similar to Ukraine". The flagship of the Black Sea Fleet. Russia still has the Marshal Ustinov - SF and Varyag in the Pacific Fleet. And, according to your logic, Is this Project 1164 a bad cruiser?

[Russ69]

Quote: morpex

Russia still has Marshal Ustinov in storage

Ustinov is being repaired; this year he was taken out of the dry dock. In the year 15 must pass the Navy.
And Ukraine, we wouldn’t put it. Until it comes to new ships of the same class. how much more time will pass.

[AVV]

The only way out for needles is to let go, at least for some reason, than to spend money on maintenance !!! Or sell it for scrap !!!

[Geisenberg]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

The title is 1.4 billion dollars, and the article is about hryvnias. Yes, and what do we need it for, it’s all rusty already. It’s easier and cheaper to build a new one.

According to the manual, the case is made of special armored steel. I don’t think that the new one will be very cheap, but it’s easier to build - yes.

[Grishka100watt]

why do we need it, everything is rusty already. It will be easier and cheaper to build a new one.

I don’t know, Eagles are also rusty, but they will be made. One is already doing, as far as I remember.

[Peaceful military]

I read the article. Got a question. SO WHAT?

[domokl]

Quote: Peaceful military

. Got a question. SO WHAT?

And the fact that Ukraine urgently needs to look for that kind of money .. That's all. Or complete or sell ...

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: domokl

.Or finish building or selling ...

Yes to the scrap tries, why to finish building them NATO will protect

[KazaK Bo]

Quote: domokl

Ukraine urgently needs to look for that kind of money .. That's all. Or finish building or selling ...

1,2 billion hryvnias or 150 million dollars is not such a lot of money ... Ukraine only under a gas contract owes more than 7 billion dollars .... I think that GAZPROM will not even notice that these 150 million d. In the extreme case, a couple of sponsorship contracts will not be concluded with football clubs in Germany, Serbia, England ... We will easily survive the absence of these sponsorship contracts ... but the absence of a similar ship in the composition of our Navy will be a big problem!

[vadson]

Quote: KazaK Bo

Quote: domokl

Ukraine urgently needs to look for that kind of money .. That's all. Or finish building or selling ...

1,2 billion hryvnias or 150 million dollars is not such a lot of money ... Ukraine only under a gas contract owes more than 7 billion dollars .... I think that GAZPROM will not even notice that these 150 million d. In the extreme case, a couple of sponsorship contracts will not be concluded with football clubs in Germany, Serbia, England ... We will easily survive the absence of these sponsorship contracts ... but the absence of a similar ship in the composition of our Navy will be a big problem!

I think that the Russian budget does not count these milenders and not foreign clubs from Gazprom

[largus886]

And to paint it in the colors of Gazprom, this will be a cool advertisement !!!!!!

[Fin]

Quote: largus886

And to paint it in the colors of Gazprom, this will be a cool advertisement !!!!!!

I agree. And send to protect Prirazlomnaya from all Greenpeace

[Hudo]

Quote: domokl

Quote: Peaceful military

. Got a question. SO WHAT?

And the fact that Ukraine urgently needs to look for that kind of money .. That's all. Or complete or sell ...

the Ukrainian authorities, if they seek such money, it is only to steal it - the specificity is this. And if they find money for completion, it is only in order to steal a large sum from the sale. But it is doubtful that they will look for money for completion - they prefer to steal a tit that is in their hands than a crane in the sky.
Most likely, there are no people willing to give a loan for the completion of the ship - everyone understands that the loan will be stolen and they will ask for nothing really and without doing anything. The forecast for "Admiral Lobov" will be cut into scrap metal or Russia will take away part of U.

[Peaceful military]

Russia will take away at the expense of paying off part of the debt of U.

The idea is perfect, but not real.

[Hudo]

White Elephant (eng. White Elephant) - phraseology existing in the English language, implying an object ruinous for its owner.

The origin of the expression is connected with the tradition that took place in Siam, according to which the King of Siam gave the white elephant unfavorable to him. White elephants were revered as sacred animals and were not supposed to work, but the cost of keeping an elephant ruined the recipient of such a gift. It can also mean an almost useless, but expensive item. In stock exchange practice, the expression "white elephant" is known as a designation of a transaction in which expenses exceed the profit from the transaction.

Russian counterpart: "a suitcase without a handle."

Whether this unfinished ship will turn out to be a white elephant for the Russian fleet is a question.

[Peaceful military]

And the fact that Ukraine urgently needs to look for such money .. That's all. Or complete or sell.

So what? Let them finish building or sell.

[soldat1945]

For 20 years Ukraine has not been able to figure out which development path to choose, it’s not up to the cruisers, they are selling everything they can!

[ivshubarin]

It’s not enough to finish building; keeping the budget of Ukraine in a combat-ready state is not enough

[major071]

Yes, Ukraine will not allocate money for completion. They are not provided for. It will be easier to write off at all. They’ll slowly write them off and the line will reach this cruiser. A pity!

[Akim]

Quote: major071

It will be easier to write off at all.

He was removed from the Navy back in 2010.

[AlexVas44]

I read everything carefully. Not a sailor, he didn’t make up his mind, but having studied the history of the ship, I think to myself, as already written above, a good immigrant to China, at least somewhere. The following leads to this: it was laid down in 1984, launched in 1990 and has been rusting for a quarter of a century, it requires the modernization of everything and everything in order to become a ship of today. Maybe knowledgeable people will tell you: How much will it become and what is cheaper - to build a new one or to finish (rebuild?) An existing one?

[Akim]

Quote: AlexVas44

how much will it become and what will be cheaper - to build a new one or to finish (rebuild?) an existing one?

A corvette-class ship costs $ 200 million. This one will finish building 175 lemons. So count it. Another question is that Russia needs such a ship. I think it is necessary.

[ATATA]

Quote: Akim

This finish 175 lemons

Keyword BUILD.
There you need to redesign everything and change all systems.
And it will be completely different money.
On this .... to the scrap.

[Mista_dj]

Quote: ATATA

There you need to redesign everything and change all systems.

And that’s all !?
Can you see a list of these "all" systems?

[ATATA]

Quote: Mista_Dj

Can you see a list of these "all" systems?

Actually, it’s like trolling.

[Mista_dj]

I don’t see any trolling here.
I asked to concretize your post with numbers and a clear list.
Without them, this conversation is a discussion of the "average temperature in the ward" ...

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: ATATA

And it will be completely different money.

But who can you prove that. It can’t completely upgrade an empty box that costs 150 lem. See for yourself how money swells to repair the ships. Yes, it will become gold or it’s not accepted to think. Come on and all. Only. At least take an interest in the amount of repair ships.

[shtanko.49]

The ship was built with a margin for modernization, no systems need to be changed; they are not there yet. We will not master such a ship now, but we can arm it. The tsar’s will is necessary.

[common man]

You look at the photo. (On the topwar a few days ago) everything is installed there, right down to the furniture. all navigation devices, radar, etc. And everything is on the element base of the 80s. Almost a tube. He only has a valuable body. Here it is necessary to take it if-what.
About the cost of completion. For the completion of Gorshkov also called one amount. And then they increased it several times. Here it will be the same.

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: man in the street

And all on the element base of the 80s. Almost a tube. At

About what the speech.

Quote: man in the street

Here it is necessary to take it if-what.

To remove and remodel an old ship under modern equipment. It will take years and a lot of money.

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: Akim

This finish 175 lemons.

How little a person needs, I saw the number 175 and decided, That it is so.

[TAIM]

With this money, it’s better that our Ministry of Defense build a couple of new corvettes.

[Misantrop]

Quote: TAIM

With this money, it’s better that our Ministry of Defense build a couple of new corvettes.

Are you sure that the result will be just corvettes, and not a pleasure yacht?

[Akim]

Quote: TAIM

With this money, it’s better that our Ministry of Defense build a couple of new corvettes.

For this money, one corvette. But the corvette is opposite the aircraft carrier, sho kayak against the ship.

[ATATA]

Quote: Akim

For this money, one corvette. But the corvette versus the aircraft carrier, shaw kayak against the ship

I say again:
1 For this money the ship of 1984 will be completed (Do you need it?)
2 The figure for completion is understated several times. (Not an expert, but I can smell it in my gut!)

[Akim]

Quote: ATATA

2 The figure for completion is understated several times. (Not an expert, but I can smell it in my gut!)

For whom is it understated? At the request of the deputy-svobodovets. Yes, on the contrary they will be told a higher price, so that the desire to kill And then these ... and the tactical nuclear weapons they want to return to the army.

[Serg 122]

The price may be too low, but "ours" will need at least 3 times more - for "mastering" .... Otherwise - what interest?

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: Akim

For whom is it understated?

Sit yourself and think how much the C 300 costs to put on it.

[Akim]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

how much the C 300 costs to put on it.

It depends on what is installed there. We don’t know.

[Fin]

Quote: Akim

It depends on what is installed there. We don’t know.

The article says:

The ship lacks strike weapons and a ship version of the S - 300 air defense system, which is produced in the Russian Federation.

This is an empty iron box + engine in an unknown state. The rest is all you need to cut and set a new one.
Akim Do you remember how you wrote a little earlier? Let it rot better - it will be so. Ukraine will not be given money for completion, but in the Russian Federation the capacities are occupied.

[Akim]

Quote: Fin

Akim Do you remember how you wrote a little earlier? Let it rot better - it will be so. Ukraine will not be given money for completion, but in the Russian Federation the capacities are occupied.

Not this way. Wrote: Let it rot better rather than sell it for 30 million bucks. It doesn’t matter to whom. This is not a price. Although this price was offered by Russia. The price of one helicopter.

[Fin]

Quote: Akim

than for 30 million bucks to sell it. It doesn’t matter to whom.

The Russian Federation has offered a real price for the body and engine parts. There is nothing more valuable there.

[Akim]

Quote: Fin

for the body and engine parts. There is nothing more valuable there.

I always don't understand people who say literally. Such remarks may be appropriate if you are familiar with the documents or know the official report or actually "felt it". Maybe there on the southern coast of the White Sea and more visible here on the northern coast of the Black Sea, only a narrow circle of people know about this and your humble servant is not among them.

[Fin]

Quote: Akim

I always don't understand people who say literally. Such remarks may be appropriate if you are familiar with the documents or know the official report or actually "felt it". Maybe there on the southern coast of the White Sea and more visible here on the northern coast of the Black Sea, only a narrow circle of people know about this and your humble servant is not among them.

Well, firstly, my city is on the south bank of the Arctic Ocean, geography however. Secondly what can be valuable there from the 80-90s? Think google and disprove me. I would be very glad if I made a mistake. At the same time, everything has already been "bitten out" of the equipment, it is dead.

[ATATA]

Quote: Akim

It depends on what is installed there. We don’t know.

Yes, everything is there !!! And even more, because the marine performance.

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: Akim

It depends on what is installed there. We don’t know.

He is empty!

[Akim]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

He is empty!

You were there? At least in one of the warheads?

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: Akim

You were there? At least in one of the warheads?

About two years ago, a Star about him was broadcast. So our admirals said everything that was installed there needs to be dismantled and a new one installed. There is nothing valuable. Only the building is valuable. Everything else will have to be redesigned, and this is years of work and billions of rubles. Yes why is he needed.

[Mista_dj]

Quote: ATATA

1 For this money the ship of 1984 will be completed (Do you need it?)

And three more such ships for each Fleet - it would be just right.
Lobov - not a ship yet, but a 84 year hull. And the filling can be set - almost any.

Quote: ATATA

but I can smell it

And you smell correctly, the completion of Lobov in those. 1984 mission - The Navy does not need.
The project will definitely be changed!
Without any doubts!
Therefore, the price will be higher - this is also clear to everyone.
But how much it will depend on: the level of the changes made and the systems used, the shipyard, which will carry out the conversion / completion.
And will the Poles and Koreans be attracted by the propulsion system?

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: Mista_Dj

And the filling can be set - almost any.

Oh well, and how are you going to put in the 1984 stuffing on the 2013 TV? Everything will have to be changed. Each of which is much different and everyone considers himself a specialist

[Day 11]

Unsuccessful comparison.

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: Den 11

Unsuccessful comparison.

Then find a reasonable solution. How to insert the 2013 equipment of the year into the 1984 project of the year.

[nik6006]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

Quote: Den 11

Unsuccessful comparison.

Then find a reasonable solution. How to insert the 2013 equipment of the year into the 1984 project of the year.

How to insert the equipment, let the engineers decide, there are many places, they will insert it. They only need to formulate the problem correctly. Well, they made an aircraft carrier from the cruiser, but can they really not install fresh electronics and cables?
Fucking to abandon the championship - 600 000 000 000 (it was already charging from the zeros), we already got these grandiose constructions, it’s better to build ships and kindergartens, and a couple of football fields MO can repair or build for small grandmas, how many loafers are from the military he wants to mow down the service - to give everyone a shovel, let the homeland pay the debt.

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: nik6006

How to insert equipment let engineers decide

Well it’s very easy, they’ll sit a couple of days and solve the problem

Quote: nik6006

They only need to formulate the problem correctly.

You are very far from reality

[Mista_dj]

You know, Alexander.
Probably, in the polemic between the two of us, the specialist - your opponent will be more likely than you.
I went to Malta on the Slava RC (with Lobov) (now Moscow), I was in the carriage when he was taken to Nikolaev for repairs.
May 13 is not an ordinary holiday in my family!
As it always seemed to me - I am well versed in the device and capabilities of these ships (+/- the nuances of a particular hull).
Therefore, do not rush to hang up labels, especially when talking to people who really know the issue under discussion.
I do not sew myself into the authorities in shipbuilding, but some of the points in your statements even seem to me far-fetched, emotional and unreasonable.

And about the case ...
The hull of the ship (which Lobov is now) is by no means a Rubin TV and is not subject to fashion and design trends, but a product built in strict accordance with the laws of hydrodynamics and the Soviet school of shipbuilding.
Therefore, it is possible to significantly improve the capabilities of the project and today are not very weak.

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: Mista_Dj

On the same type (with Lobov) RC "Slava" (now Moscow) I went to Malta,

What sailor?

Quote: Mista_Dj

The hull of the ship (of which there is now Lobov) is by no means a Rubin TV and is not subject to fashion and design trends, but built in strict accordance with the laws of hydrodynamics

And now you (in your words) specialist, tell me, what are the requirements for modern ships?

[Akim]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

Oh well, and how are you going to put in the 1984 stuffing on the 2013 TV?

I have set. My ancestors got "Photon-711" for their wedding. I gave it to them three years ago, such an abnormal one. Happiness is the sea. Although I agree - also a bad example.

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: Akim

I set.

Yeah, is this an LCD monitor with lamps working or a tube from a tube TV on microcircuits

Quote: Akim

Although I agree, it is also a bad example.

Normal example

[Akim]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

is it an LCD monitor working on lamps or a tube from a tube TV on microcircuits

Only the case with decorative handles remained from the old one. And now there are plenty of CRTs. 28 "found, with a normal resolution of 1400 * 1050 and forward. It turned out beautifully. The old is good with the new.

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: Akim

. The old is good with the new.

So do in Ukraine.
I have two televisions at home, if one burns down, I either call the master, or buy a new one. This is what they do in Russia.

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: ATATA

2 The figure for completion is understated several times.

Of course it is underestimated. Count, armament, electronics, general work, the cost of estimates, the project. Only dough to pay workers will fly to 150 lyam. They write hell.

[Mista_dj]

Better yet: a cruiser and a couple of TENS corvettes!

[Omskgasmyas]

If you finish building this rusty can, you will have to restore many weapons technologies of the day before yesterday, and you need to produce them in single copies. Indeed, in this case, completion will come out and more expensive 1,4 billion. $.
Recently sketches of "destroyers" of the far sea zone (under 10000 tons!) Were presented in the press. Isn't it a cruiser? In the new and it is necessary to work out. It would be nice if they went to warrant for promising aircraft carriers.

[Patton5]

If you finish building this rusty can, you will have to restore many weapons technologies of the day before yesterday, and you need to produce them in single copies.

Narrow thinking ....

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: Mista_Dj

What kind of 1,4 billion dollars are we talking about !?
Who considered this estimate?

And who counted in hryvnias? The Ukrainians calculated for themselves. Our finding that we should completely abandon the ship. It’s just to swell money into it, although to whom I prove that ..

[morpex]

Quote: Omskgazmyas

If you finish building this rusty can, you will have to restore many weapons technologies of the day before yesterday, and you need to produce them in single copies.

Strange. I never thought that a cruiser of this class is the last century. And the "Volcanoes" that are on it the day before yesterday? And torpedoes with a speed of over 100 km / h and a range of 22 km, and RBU-6000, and AK-130, and ZAK AK-630, and SAM S-Z00, and SAM "OSA MA". Yes, I almost forgot the ship-based Ka-25 / Ka-27 anti-submarine helicopter with a hangar and a helipad. Are you getting drunk badly with GAZMYAS?

[Patton5]

What kind of nonsense, Every day more and more. In the title of the article, dolars in the article are hryvnias.

[poccinin]

yes CHINESE will buy it at the price of scrap metal. They modernize for themselves and he will be walking around under the name "MAO JEDUN" that's all.

[donavi49]

They already abandoned the cruiser in 2004, in 2006 and finally in 2009. Why should they change their minds?

Oh, they just do not need this cruiser S-300F they have and so. AK-130 there is even a license, but they decided to gash their 130 mm single-barrel based on one AK-130 barrel. We don’t even have the main complex (P-500 / 1000 deficit, there are barely enough for the existing 3 ships until the end of the service, especially for this we reduced the number of firing from 3 to 1 per year).

The Chinese are building their Berks with Aegis and UVP.

[donavi49]

In Ukraine, if for nothing, then you can take for cannibalism under our 3 cruiser. If to finish building, and how Ukrainians want to sponsor shipyards in Nikolaev, then it is not necessary.

The reasons:
1) GK - it’s not enough for the fourth ship, well, or refuse to shoot (now 1 shooting a year - this time the Varangian and Moscow debt for the last year, this is generally a minimum-minimum).
2) Modernization - a unique modernization project must be made for the cruiser based on its current state.
3) Dispersion of forces - the same design bureaus, instead of grinding corvettes-frigates and other useful things, will have to make a project for the cruiser unique and unique (for sisterships in another technical person and the initial data are different). Also our facilities. Now everything is loaded and again, or to sponsor Nikolaev, and this is a bottomless barrel for swelling money, or to find a place with us. Now the average repair with modernization overpowers Sevmash, but there only the 1 cruiser can pass, the rest are in line. That is, the entry of Ukraine will mean that 3-4 of the year Moscow or the Varangian will stand at the pier.

[APASUS]

On this resource articles with the opposite meaning are often printed!
THAT Russia buys, but now again it has not shown interest .......... for the tenth time we are discussing the fate of the cruiser.

[nik6006]

Everything is very simple in my opinion:
1) If the cruiser Russia does not take it, it will either be sold to others (uniquely to our competitors, which will strengthen them), or 3 options:
a) it will continue to rust
b) will be allowed for scrap
c) Ukraine will complete it, and that means two more options:
I) complete for myself, then strengthen, get a powerful weapon, taking into account the possible
Ukraine’s integration into NATO, this is a weakening of Russia
II) complete and sell to those who want to become stronger, and this is the weakening of Russia
2) Russia takes the cruiser, hence three options:
a) build and receive the IMF into service a powerful vessel, this is the strengthening of Russia
b) they will start up for scrap, other ships or tanks can be made of metal, but our others
competitors will not get this cruiser, and we will have resources, and this is the strengthening of Russia
c) it will be completed and sold to those who need it, but not to the enemies, and the IMF will receive a friendly country on
armament a powerful ship will divert forces and means, and this is the strengthening of Russia

The result, if you pick it up, even for scrap, we will get much more than the metal for which we paid, and if we also bargain for debts, then we get a triple benefit. Correct if you missed something.

[nik6006]

Well, then you immediately rushed to minus everything, I wrote - correct, if something is wrong I see. Now I’m not even thinking of a financial issue here, but a political, about the defense potential of the state. Passed by - one click, and write something sensible, object, so you have to press letters many times, you are lazy on Saturdays.

[avg]

In principle, if you have ideas for re-equipment, and you still have the opportunity to supply a power plant and other systems, then you can buy, because the case should be in perfect order.
From the history of the project: "During the construction of the cruiser, at the request of AN Blinov, who is watching from the Navy, the minimum thickness of the steel sheets of the hull structures was at least 8 mm and exceeded the design norms in order to increase the durability of the ship's hull."
But clear guarantees of a firm price and delivery time are needed.
I wrote about the price and terms, and it became funny to myself

[Mista_dj]

Quote: nik6006

c) Ukraine will complete it, and that means two more options

This is absolutely out of the question!
I declare responsibly: the financial side is by no means the main thing in this story.
You can take a loan from the bourgeoisie and (finish building) sell.
So no!
Ukraine does not have the technological ability to do this!
The technological base of large (read special) shipbuilding is completely leaked.
Warships of this class are built - there is no one, nowhere, and nothing to do: even with steels and cast iron of special pop brands!
The Varangians were not brought up precisely for this reason: everyone fled, there was nothing, and the freshly baked graduates of the Nikolaev Shipbuilding Industry did not obviously pull out the construction of the aircraft carrier, at that time they traded chewing gum and Turkish shoes in the bazaar.
So it goes...

[wow]

I've seen this "steam" almost every day for 20 years now. It is a depressing spectacle, as well as the "vile that is indispensable" itself. Somewhere in 2000-2002, before a visit to the 61 Communards plant by the then president of Nenki Kui, a crew (about 500 people) was caught on it (the cruiser) and painted, though only from the side of the quay wall. About 50 Ukrainian "admirals" arrived (despite the fact that there are only 4-5 ships), they gave a cry, made me happy. They took pride in the "mighty Ukrainian fleet", drank some vodka and went on their way to steal what was left of the "bloody regime". And the cart (the ship or what is left of it) is still there. Rusty, scary. Glory to Ukriyna, glory to heroes! In one word - a complete khan to everything !!!

[ivshubarin]

Did the Americans drop their super destroyer today?

[Sirs]

There are probably already other promising projects, so they must be put into practice, and whoever hasn’t visited NATO CHINA is on this ship, so acquiring it is a step back.

[indiggo]

Lobov’s acquisition only makes sense on spare parts, or instead of Admiral Ustinov. really correctly wrote all the power of this project in its main caliber. and there are very few missiles left ...

[Fin]

Quote: indiggo

or instead of Admiral Ustinov.

You would think first. Ustinov is a running ship, will soon be out of repair.

[indiggo]

Ustinov, if you don’t know in a very sad state, he’s undergoing an average repair right now, but this repair will be enough for 3-4 years, then you will need a major overhaul and modernization, most of the components are no longer produced, there was an article about this that clearly stated that 4 Alas, the ship of project 1164 will not be part of the Russian Navy!
one of them will go to spare parts and it is not up to you to decide who exactly ...

[Fin]

Quote: indiggo

Ustinov, if you don’t know in a very sad state, he’s undergoing an average repair right now, but this repair will last for 3-4 years, then you will need a major overhaul and modernization,

Well, I explain on the fingers. You ride on a machine that does not have air conditioning, rain sensor, ABS .. You are offered a stand-up, which does NOT work ANYTHING, it is unknown whether it will start or not. What do we choose ?? Is it clear now?

[Silkway0026]

so one and a half billion dollars or one and a half billion hryvnia ???

[Vitaly Anisimov]

Quote: Sirs

There are probably already other promising projects, so they must be put into practice, and whoever hasn’t visited NATO CHINA is on this ship, so acquiring it is a step back.

And it seems to me worth buying (if supposedly at the price of scrap metal) .. Ukraine is selling all its military equipment .. like if only they paid ..))) Let it be outwardly rusty, but if it is stuffed with modern weapons, electronics .. The most important thing is that it our domestic construction (good or bad is another question ..) Here "Mistrals" were bought, but I have a very wary attitude towards them in terms of safety .. (when they ordered more ...) I'm not special. in these cases, so simply expressed an opinion ..

[stranik72]

Mr. moderator, and in what, the crime of my unpublished comment, read your rules, not a single point and is not closely violated.

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: stranik72

Mr. moderator, but what, the crime of my unpublished comment

No one has deleted your comments!

[Ivanovich47]

Why reanimate yesterday? The design of the cruiser from the last century. Indeed, it is more rational to build a new ship using stealth technologies.

[Patton5]

No, it’s better to immediately dive !!!! and aircraft carriers stelsekranoplan !!! in

[MG42]

Completion of the cruiser "Ukraine" will cost 1.4 billion dollars.

The hryvnia is eight times cheaper than the US dollar, with the heading of the article trouble, although the link to the Ukrainian-language source in this topic there is the heading in hryvnias ..

http://mil.in.ua/news/ukraina/5154-dobudova-kreisera-ukraina-koshtuie-1-4-mlrd-h

rn

Hryvnia with greens can be consonant? Of the banknotes, we have only twenty green ones ..

[Akim]

Quote: MG42

Hryvnia with greens can be consonant?

If you take the title of the article for faith, I have a huge salary by European standards. Tomorrow I'll go to the car market. I’ll get myself a car for a monthly pay, in the region of 5 bucks.)))

[MG42]

Quote: Akim

If you take the title of the article for faith, I have a huge salary by European standards.

Trust but verify..

Quote: Akim

Autra go to the car market. I’ll get a car for a monthly pay, in the region of 5 bucks.

Now everything will go up in price because they have introduced a recycling fee, hurry up ..

[Vitaly Anisimov]

Quote: Ivanovich47

Why reanimate yesterday? The design of the cruiser from the last century. Indeed, it is more rational to build a new ship using stealth technologies.

You are right of course .. But only in case of another crisis (as in Syria ..) such a "rusty" will not hurt an extra one .. Remember the comments "Yes, your rusty fleet against the newest aircraft carriers of the states is worth nothing .." Rusty is not rusty, but stood protecting Syria (the only one in the world who was not afraid to stand in the way is a brazen armada ..) Hooray, I’m not shouting .. but still .. And we will have new modern ships sooner or later .. Russia will see such a fate ..!

[voliador]

Before thinking about whether to buy this cruiser for us or not, it is necessary to conduct a comprehensive assessment of its current state. And then ask the saloids how much they want for him.

[MG42]

Quote: voliador

And then ask the saloids how much they want for him.

Lard is also eaten in Russia. Only Muslims and Orthodox Jews do not eat lard because it is "haram" so they have a ban in the Koran and are not kosher, respectively ..

[nik6006]

So, I eat fat, with pleasure, and drink Russian vodka, bite with a Volgograd tomato and seize with a Ukrainian cucumber, it happens. Live in Russia. Wrong division. It’s better to simply divide, mathematically, and add in Slavic, our peoples are indivisible. I hope no one accuses me of nationalism.

The cruiser must be taken, given gas for metal, and completed. They found billions of rubles for the 600 football championship, but scrape the last for defense, or what ?!

[MG42]

Quote: nik6006

So, I eat fat, with pleasure, and drink Russian vodka, bite with a Volgograd tomato and seize with a Ukrainian cucumber, it happens. Live in Russia. Wrong division. It’s better to simply divide, mathematically, and add in Slavic, our peoples are indivisible. I hope no one accuses me of nationalism.

I’m also Russian, but I live in Ukraine, eat fat and even took him to my next profile picture, of course, this is a wrong division according to this criterion, there are no borders between Ukraine and Russia

Quote: nik6006

The cruiser must be taken, given gas for metal, and completed. They found billions of rubles for the 600 football championship, but did we scrape off the latter for defense?

Of course, the hull is there, anyway, it needs to be modernized in terms of armament, so it's better to put everything new, on the cruiser "Moscow" it already needs to be modernized too ..
and the Olympics in Sochi were spent

To prepare for the 2014 Winter Olympics in Sochi, according to the 1 of January 2013, 1,136 trillion rubles already spent.

Of these funds, the costs of investors amounted to 737 billion rubles, and in general they will amount to slightly more than 1 trillion rubles. In total, it is planned to spend 1,526 trillion rubles to prepare for the Olympics.

200 billion rubles were spent on Olympic venues and facilities ensuring their functioning. 500 billion rubles was spent on the development of Sochi and urban infrastructure not directly related to the Olympics, R-Sport reports.

http://www.sports.ru/sochi2014/146496190.html

[nik6006]

Quote: MG42

Quote: nik6006

So, I eat fat, with pleasure, and drink Russian vodka, bite with a Volgograd tomato and seize with a Ukrainian cucumber, it happens. Live in Russia. Wrong division. It’s better to simply divide, mathematically, and add in Slavic, our peoples are indivisible. I hope no one accuses me of nationalism.

I’m also Russian, but I live in Ukraine, eat fat and even took him to my next profile picture, of course, this is a wrong division according to this criterion, there are no borders between Ukraine and Russia

Quote: nik6006

The cruiser must be taken, given gas for metal, and completed. They found billions of rubles for the 600 football championship, but did we scrape off the latter for defense?

Of course, the hull is there, anyway, it needs to be modernized in terms of armament, so it's better to put everything new, on the cruiser "Moscow" it already needs to be modernized too ..
and the Olympics in Sochi were spent

To prepare for the 2014 Winter Olympics in Sochi, according to the 1 of January 2013, 1,136 trillion rubles already spent.

Of these funds, the costs of investors amounted to 737 billion rubles, and in general they will amount to slightly more than 1 trillion rubles. In total, it is planned to spend 1,526 trillion rubles to prepare for the Olympics.

200 billion rubles were spent on Olympic venues and facilities ensuring their functioning. 500 billion rubles was spent on the development of Sochi and urban infrastructure not directly related to the Olympics, R-Sport reports.

http://www.sports.ru/sochi2014/146496190.html

About the Olympics, I'm a little bit in the subject here, of what was probably spent half - stolen. The money was taken abroad by our billionaire builders who are close to the "body". So I think that the same garbage will come out with the championship, as they finish building, they will calculate, they will see that the cost has increased 3 times and and half of the money is spent ... on all sorts of Turkish citizens. Well, he nafig such a championship, All the same, they will plunder ... Better yet, Ukraine will be given money and the ship will be taken away and there will still be a nano-stealth aircraft carrier to build with a vertical take-off UFO regiment.

[Mista_dj]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

But who can you prove that. A complete modernization of an empty box cannot cost 150 lyam. See for yourself how the money swells to repair the ships. Yes, it will become gold or it’s not accepted to think with brains.

Nonsense again!
You are talking about nothing!
Do you have clear amounts for maintaining such a ship over a 20-30 year service cycle? No!
Can you give an example of the operation of at least ONE (!) Warship in the maintenance of which the sums are not "thrown in"? No!
The fleet has never been a penny idea! And your remarks about handing over Lobov "on pins and needles" - at least - are not reasonable!
At least for the reasons already spent on his (and other vessels) construction of funds!
Russia does not need ocean-class ships !?
Yes, since when !?

In Syria, a squadron was assembled one by one, instead of bringing a detachment of first-line combat-ready ships from Sevastopol!
I'm already talking about the prestige of the state - in general I am silent.
For some reason, you can’t understand in any way that EVERY warship, and especially a cruiser, is a whole event for a huge number of people!
Sorry for populism, but there are human destinies around the body in three layers ...
For example, I was accepted as a pioneer at the side of the Varyag aircraft carrier, which was building!

You can’t cut ships - it’s a betrayal!

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: Mista_Dj

You are talking about nothing!
Do you have clear amounts for maintaining such a ship over a 20-30 year service cycle?

The Mechanic of IIIiiii will come .... he won’t even talk to you!

[daem00n]

Quote: Misantrop

Quote: TAIM

With this money, it’s better that our Ministry of Defense build a couple of new corvettes.

Are you sure that the result will be just corvettes, and not a pleasure yacht?

As always at the very POINT!
On the topic, Ukraine will not finish building it - there is no and will not be money, and Ukraine does not need it at all. Two ways - either on needles or selling the Russian Federation which is better (for a reasonable price of course). In the Russian Federation in the next 10-15 years, a ship of this class will not be built, so this should be a mutually beneficial deal between the Russian Federation and Ukraine.

[daem00n]

I remember shouting about VARYAG

Quote: Ivanovich47

Why reanimate yesterday? The design of the cruiser from the last century. Indeed, it is more rational to build a new ship using stealth technologies.

I remember about TAVKR VARYAG also shouted - outdated, expensive to finish, etc. But as it turned out, the Chinese are not expensive. The situation may happen again.

[Imigrantt]

I agree from A to Z! Varyag from "allies" And this unfinished one will be in the same place !! And it was built even during the military reception !!!!! And not with managers it would be better to take! And lay the newest filling !!!!! More profitable !!!! In every way!!!!

[moremansf]

While they give it is necessary to take !!! Ukraine will not pull it, but it will come in handy for us, everything is available, the S-300 is a spent complex except for project 1164, it also stands on the TARKR pr 1144 (Peter the Great), we installed it for the Chinese and the main complex was a topic worked out. At “Ustinov” just such a replacement is underway. The repair base is Severodvinsk, there they have now worked out the repair technology pr 1164, so there is where and to whom, and you can always find funds if you wish ... do not change stripes and stripes, here are the funds, and even better at the expense of gas debts, even "Gazprom" will fork out for the needs of the Navy, tariffs are growing anyway ... It will be a pity if the "needles" are allowed or again sold to the Chinese as scrap metal !!!

[Chuvash]

the voiced figures for the completion of the ship are not so big for us. it is worth seriously considering its acquisition

[Omskgasmyas]

They nimusut me to the roof. It turns out. how many people on the forum want to pick up any rusty naval nail and make the Stradivarius violin out of it, so to speak. I dare not interfere with them in this noble cause, but my opinion remains the same: no junk in the system, ships of new projects are needed. For example, I quote from Pedivikia:
"The destroyer of the new generation, which is being developed today in the interests of the Russian Navy, will have to replace three classes of ships at once: destroyers, large anti-submarine ships (BOD) and, possibly, Project 1164 missile cruisers," a source in the defense industrial complex.

- It will be a universal ship that can replace all three projects. Due to modern weapons, it will surpass today's anti-submarine capabilities of the BOD, and today's strike destroyers and missile cruisers, in addition to Peter the Great and its classmates, in strike and anti-aircraft capabilities, the source said.

- The main weapon of the new ship should be universal naval firing systems, which can be loaded with a variety of missiles, anti-submarine missiles and new generation air defense systems. Now we are working on several options for the project, the choice of power plant. Depending on the needs of the fleet and budgetary constraints, the new destroyer may receive a nuclear or gas turbine unit, the Izvestia source added.
The Russian Navy should receive 14-16 of the latest destroyers, which will form the basis of the combat power of the surface fleet, the military believes.

The displacement of a promising destroyer, depending on the chosen version of weapons and power plant, will be from 9-10 to 12-14 thousand tons. Ammunition for anti-ship missiles, anti-submarine missile torpedoes, cruise missiles for firing at ground targets and medium and long-range anti-aircraft missiles will be be from 80-90 to 120-130 units. Artillery armament will consist of two or four 152 mm guns in twin gun mounts. In addition, the ship will have close combat anti-aircraft missile and artillery systems and an air group of two or three helicopters. "

[Mista_dj]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

The Mechanic of IIIiiii will come .... he won’t even talk to you!

This should make me behave differently?
The main thing is not to talk on such topics with you!
Vata riding ...

[Fortnite]

I propose to arrange the same scam as the Americans with "Ulyanovsk" - to promise to buy scrap metal in cubes (cutting at the expense of the seller), and then refuse .... Why can they, but we can not? There will be at least moral compensation ...