Military Review

Panoramic sights commander for Russian tanks

191
Panoramic sights commander for Russian tanks



A mandatory element of equipping modern foreign tanks in recent years, the commander’s panoramic sight has become. This device provides all-round surveillance and guidance. weapons on target. Combining the functions of the observation device and sight, such systems can significantly improve the combat capabilities of tanks. With the help of a panoramic sight the tank commander can fully control all the processes necessary for firing. However, despite all the advantages, such sighting equipment has not yet become a common component of electronic equipment for tanks of the armed forces of Russia. Unfortunately, at present, Russian tankers have to use different devices for monitoring the situation and pointing weapons.

In recent years, the domestic defense industry has created several tank fire control systems (SLA), which include panoramic sights. At the moment, tanks with similar equipment are not supplied to the troops, but in the near future the situation may change. Thus, in some sources it is mentioned that the T-72B tanks, in the course of repair and modernization, will receive a new modification of the Kalina fire control system, equipped with a panoramic commanding sight.



The base version of the “Kalina” vehicle is used on the newest domestic T-90MS tank. The system architecture and its individual elements were created taking into account the need for combat work at any time of day in any conditions. The main method of meeting such requirements is the use of modern multi-channel sighting devices. Thus, the commander of the T-90MS has a new panoramic sight of the PAN Hawkeye PC model. The sight has a two-plane independent stabilization of the field of view, two optical channels (television and thermal imaging) and an integrated laser range finder. Due to this, the commander, if necessary, can take over the work of the gunner.

It should be noted that the high characteristics of the Kalina LMS are achieved not only with the help of a panoramic sight. In addition to this device, the fire control system includes the multichannel gunner sight PNM Sosna-U (it has the same functions as the commander's, but it is equipped with an anti-missile laser control system), a double-sight, a digital ballistic computer, video signal processing equipment , weapons stabilizer, tactical link information management system and a number of other equipment. An interesting feature of the new fire control system is the relatively small dimensions of its individual elements and the significantly reduced number of controls. The last feature of the Kalina SUO facilitates crew training and combat vehicle operation.

Workplace Commander, T-90MS


At the time of its creation and up to the present, the fire control system Kalina was and remains one of the best complexes of its class in the world. Moreover, in some respects, the newest domestic MSA may surpass the recent foreign developments.

The predecessor of the “Kalina” LMS can be considered a similar “Redoubt” system created in the mid-nineties. As in the case of the later system, the Redoubt project was designed to equip tanks and other armored vehicles and increase their combat potential. One of the ways to improve the performance of armored vehicles with the OUT “Redoubt” was the inclusion of a commander in the last panoramic sight. This device allows you to monitor the situation and direct gun armament. Commander sight is equipped with a system of stabilization of the visual field. To detect targets and determine the distance to them, the commander of a combat vehicle can use a television channel and a laser range finder. Thermal equipment is absent.

The absence of a thermal channel in the panoramic sight of the OCS Redut is compensated by its presence in the gunner's sight. Like the commander's device, the gunner's sight is equipped with a system for stabilizing the field of view and a laser rangefinder. At the same time, the gunner of a combat vehicle equipped with the OUT “Redoubt” can monitor the situation and attack targets not only during the day, but also at night, using only the sighting equipment available at its workplace. Both sights of the Redut system can interact with the weapon stabilizer in eight modes. This ensures both the independent work of a crew member and their joint actions.

The fire control system "Redoubt" in the course of several tests showed its high characteristics and found application in armored vehicles. Thus, this MSA was used in projects for the modernization of infantry fighting vehicles BPM-2 and BMP-3, and was also offered for installation on the combat vehicles of the BMD-4 landing force. In addition, in the first half of the last decade, the Indian military expressed a desire to familiarize themselves with the Russian development and even conducted tests of a tank equipped with the Redut system.

All the latest domestic fire control systems for tanks and combat vehicles of other classes are faced with the same problem: the prospective main customer represented by the Russian Ministry of Defense has not shown any interest in them for a long time. The reasons for this are not completely clear. Assumptions about the reasons that the newest MSAs were not installed on new and modernized tanks concern the lack of funds from the military department, some technical problems or inerrancy of responsible persons. Regardless of the specific reasons, at the moment Russian tank forces do not have equipment with modern fire control systems equipped with panoramic sights.



However, in the near future the situation should change and the existing tanks in the troops will receive modern electronic equipment. In addition, the new main tank, created under the Armata project, is expected to be equipped with the latest fire control system, which will include the newest domestic developments in this area.


On the materials of the sites:
http://gurkhan.blogspot.ru/
http://btvt.narod.ru/
http://kbptula.ru/
http://otvaga2004.ru/
http://vestnik-rm.ru/
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  1. Aleks tv
    Aleks tv 18 October 2013 09: 09
    20
    A panoramic device is simply necessary for the tank commander !!!

    Tankers have been talking about this for DECADES.

    Destroying a target is easier than detecting it in time and classifying the danger emanating from it. No matter how strange it sounds, but it is!
    The current range of commander’s devices: TKN-3 of various modifications, even with the latest generation of image intensifiers, DOES NOT SATISFY the high-quality collection of information for firing from tank weapons.
    It is the commander who FINDS the goal, controlling the entire tactical situation.
    And the gunner only destroys the target indicated to him by the commander.


    Equipping stabilized panoramic instruments for tank commanders will at times increase the effectiveness of the use of weapons.
    After equipping gunners with thermal imagers, the installation of panoramas to the commander is the main goal of modernization.
    And this is not an allegation.

    And TKN-3, as they put on the tank, continue to be put, even on the T-72Б3 ...
    This is not a bad device for other combat vehicles, not as the main means of collecting information from the tank commander.
    It is heavy, uncomfortable and not informative, especially when driving. And with a regular shot, it is also dangerous for a slow commander.
    Soon, tankers would wear it to developers and customers. We got it already.

    Thanks to Cyril for the raised urgent topic.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 18 October 2013 10: 08
      +1
      Did we put radars on tanks? And is there a need for such a device?
      1. Aleks tv
        Aleks tv 18 October 2013 10: 25
        +2
        Quote: Spade
        Did we put radars on tanks? And is there a need for such a device?

        Greetings, I hope your health has recovered.

        No, they didn’t. In any case, the classic tanks with barrel artillery - no.
        There is talk that the T-95 experienced.

        About the utility:
        Only theoretically (no one has practice).
        The device is useful, but:
        1. Will the radiation unmask the tank, being also a way of pointing missiles at the emitter?
        2. As far as this expensive radar trash will be well protected from small arms damage, it will be located "on the armor".
        3. Is radar capricious in service?

        I have no answers about the usefulness and necessity of a radar on a tank, maybe others will tell you.
        IMHO.
        1. Timeout
          Timeout 18 October 2013 10: 40
          +2
          Quote: Spade
          Did we put radars on tanks? And is there a need for such a device?

          As such, the radar for the tank is not needed right now. For this, there has long been a close-range radar. When introducing a normal tactical warning system in a combat situation, information from these radars can be transmitted directly to tactical tablets. Let's hope that a similar technique appears in the army ...
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 18 October 2013 11: 02
            +2
            Sorry, but with their help it will be impossible to control the shooting. Target designation only. Which is not enough.
        2. Lopatov
          Lopatov 18 October 2013 11: 00
          +4
          Welcome.

          The radiation will unmask, but no one in fact requires its constant work. In addition, tank radars can also work in a passive mode, using a remote emitter, or using radiation from reconnaissance vehicles and art. intelligence. They are on the BRM, and on artillery PRP.

          We resolve the issue of vulnerability. For example, as on the same artillery PRP, the antenna is simply retracted. In addition, they must be used in battle when firing at long ranges, in bad weather, at night. That is, when the probability of hitting the antennas with the arrow is not very high.

          The radar SNAR, which came across, are not capricious. You just need to be able to work with them. But this is being solved. By training.


          Quote: Aleks tv
          I have no answers about the usefulness and need for a radar in a tank.

          In local, when tanks are often used on blocks, the device will be in demand. In Afghanistan, they were installed on the ACS and NSVS and quite effectively used at night for moving targets. In addition, the Soviet regime also had a security regime — the sector was scanned; upon detection of a moving target — an audio signal.
          In a normal war, it is also effective. No wonder they are put on the new "Chrysanthemums". And before on MT-12r put "Ruta" - a radar sight
          1. Timeout
            Timeout 18 October 2013 12: 07
            +1
            Quote: Spade
            In Afghanistan, they were installed on the ACS and NSVS and quite effectively used at night for moving targets.


            You are a little mistaken, the reconnaissance was armed with portable radars PSNR-5 and SBR-3, but they could not be installed on small arms, they are too big. The first radar that could be installed on the shooter is "Fara-1" and it appeared already during the first Chechen war.
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 18 October 2013 12: 38
              +1
              Are you not mistaken? SBR-3, as far as I know, was placed on the AGS and NSVS.

              1. Timeout
                Timeout 19 October 2013 05: 19
                +2
                The fact that in the photographs, for example, the antenna mounting bracket appeared in the station kit already at the end of 89 and early 90s. The state reconnaissance company had 1 radar, and it was mainly used with the NNP-23 device. Yes, they tried to sculpt antennas on their own using self-made brackets, nothing good came of it. Antennas that were produced before the year 89 had a frame with a mount made of aluminum alloy, after a couple of bursts it simply broke off. Later, when the Ministry of Defense finally sent the terms of reference for the bracket on the "Arrow", the frame was strengthened. Compare the self-propelled gun in your photo and the photo from the standard kit:


                It’s just that I myself came across this, the radar is a great thing and helped a lot when detecting caravans, there was a constant bickering behind them, who would ambush.
                1. Timeout
                  Timeout 19 October 2013 05: 49
                  +1
                  The first brackets of the type you have in the photo came to the test in Afghanistan in 88. We were brought to our detachment in May almost before the very conclusion (in August) of the river.
          2. Aleks tv
            Aleks tv 18 October 2013 12: 30
            +1
            Quote: Spade
            in bad weather at night

            Yes, it is interesting.
            And the combination of a thermal imager and a radar in one "bottle" is curious ...
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 18 October 2013 12: 50
              +2
              The thermal imager is also not a child prodigy. Although required on every tank.
              But with a radar it is possible without fanaticism, one per platoon is enough for the eyes, especially if the platoon tanks are brought together into a single information system. The second tank is an advanced multispectral optical reconnaissance station, and the third is an optics detection station.
        3. Nayhas
          Nayhas 18 October 2013 11: 14
          +3
          Quote: Aleks tv
          The device is useful, but:

          But doesn’t it seem that it’s easier to use a mini UAV launched from the aft niche of the tank’s tower, even if it’s tethered, it receives power from the tank control unit and transmits information through the wire, because everything is visible from above ...
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 18 October 2013 11: 32
            +1
            And who will control it in battle? A tethered can only be applied locally. And there is no way to maneuver in case of danger.
            1. Nayhas
              Nayhas 18 October 2013 12: 35
              +1
              Quote: Spade
              And who will control it in battle?

              Commander through the panorama. For example...
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 18 October 2013 12: 51
                +1
                It is unlikely to pull. It’s easier to transfer the platoon commander to a separate KShM.
              2. Aleks tv
                Aleks tv 18 October 2013 13: 14
                +2
                Quote: Nayhas
                Commander through the panorama. For example...

                He doesn't have enough hands.

                The UAV will not interfere with the tank unit. But it’s a unit, not every tank.
                Transferring a picture to the commander with broadcasting to linear machines of already defined targets in the distributed sectors of fire.
                Dreaming of something ...

                We would just have stabilized panoramas, or even TKN-4С-01 (vertically stabilized infrared), TKN-4С-02 (thermal imager) ...

                This is TKN-4С-01
                1. roma2
                  roma2 18 October 2013 13: 25
                  +1
                  Toko is who will control it ?? Introduce again a separate full-time unit ??
                  The company commander ?? And he needs it ?? Now tanks are becoming more and more difficult and the additional load in the form of UAVs will only distract. There are certain units for reconnaissance, which are required to supply tank crews with it.
                2. svp67
                  svp67 18 October 2013 16: 30
                  0
                  Quote: Aleks tv
                  The UAV will not interfere with the tank unit. But it’s a unit, not every tank.

                  All the difficulty so far is in DECODING the image from the UAV, therefore, a separate center should deal with the work with information and the control of the UAV itself and PROVIDE READY INFORMATION already "ON THE MOUNTAIN", but on the basis of it the commander should make a decision and set tasks for subordinates ... And of course it is better to do it GRAPHICALLY, so it is more intelligible and clear ...
                3. Nayhas
                  Nayhas 18 October 2013 17: 14
                  0
                  Quote: Aleks tv
                  The UAV will not interfere with the tank unit. But it’s a unit, not every tank.
                  Transferring a picture to the commander with broadcasting to linear machines of already defined targets in the distributed sectors of fire.
                  Dreaming of something ...

                  That's what this is about! COMMANDER TANK!
                  1. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 18 October 2013 18: 24
                    +4
                    And here the fun begins. You have an expensive high-performance tank. You give it to the platoon commander, who simply cannot use it, because, being distracted by the leadership of other platoon tanks, he will not use his capabilities to the full 100 percent.

                    And therefore military science should work here, military experiments are necessary.
                    Do I need a platoon commander in battle? If not, and the company, sitting in the KShM will be able to control all of its tanks and maintain interaction with the rest of the units, then the tank platoon commander will lead his own tank in battle. If the company does not cope, then the platoon should be transplanted to the KShM.

                    Tanks are becoming more expensive and more efficient. Saturated with electronics. And it is impossible to ignore this, leaving the old control system.
                    1. Bad_gr
                      Bad_gr 18 October 2013 18: 44
                      +6
                      Good evening!
                      A car of the Ladoga type, only with a locator, with a UAV, with good optics, and probably with satellite communications, and let it move somewhere nearby, supplying fresh information to the tablets of the tank commanders.
                      "Ladoga"
                      1. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 18 October 2013 18: 55
                        +2
                        Good evening.

                        For a company machine of this kind is definitely needed. For a platoon, military science must say its word
                      2. Aleks tv
                        Aleks tv 18 October 2013 18: 59
                        +1
                        Quote: Bad_gr
                        A car like "Ladoga"

                        Good evening, Vladimir.

                        Ага.
                        This mafia for all purposes is good in tank units ...
                      3. svp67
                        svp67 18 October 2013 19: 06
                        +2
                        Quote: Bad_gr
                        A car like "Ladoga"

                        Good - a single base. what will facilitate service and marches
                        It's bad - the appearance, they will immediately look for it and try to destroy it, it is desirable that this KShM outwardly remains similar to a linear tank ... Let the designer "break his head"
                      4. bask
                        bask 18 October 2013 19: 12
                        +2
                        Quote: svp67
                        th tank ... Let the designer "break his head"

                        Good evening. Already puzzled.
                        Commander Tank ,, Object 618 ,,.
                        It was developed in the design bureau of plant No. 174 in Omsk.
                        Represents the KShM, the commander of a tank division.
                        Disguised as a regular tank. It was created on the basis of the T-64A tank. It was created in the 1969 year.
                      5. svp67
                        svp67 18 October 2013 19: 24
                        0
                        Quote: bask
                        Good evening. Already puzzled.
                        Commander Tank ,, Object 618 ,,.
                        It was developed in the design bureau of plant No. 174 in Omsk.
                        Represents the KShM, the commander of a tank division.
                        Disguised as a regular tank. It was created on the basis of the T-64A tank. It was created in the 1969 year.

                        kind hi .
                        Well what can I say - stunned ... Tank DIVISION COMMANDER good ... I saw the KOMBAT tank - the difference from the linear one, the presence of a more powerful radio station and navigation equipment, but I wonder what they "stuffed" into the "division commander"?
                      6. bask
                        bask 18 October 2013 19: 35
                        +1
                        "" "T-64AK. This is the command version of the T-64 tank and was adopted in 1973. It has an additional radio station operating in the HF wavelength range, a collapsible antenna, navigation equipment and an auxiliary generator.
                        The handrails on both sides of the turret were lowered, and the front stowage boxes on the right fenders were replaced with additional external fuel tanks as on the left shelf. When deployed in place, a 10-meter telescopic antenna was mounted on a tower and attached to the ground with guy wires. "" "" http://vadimvswar.narod.ru/ALL_OUT/TiVOut0204/T64/dop640
                        58.htm
                        The idea itself is not new. KSHM should not have any differences from linear MBT.
                      7. Aleks tv
                        Aleks tv 18 October 2013 19: 49
                        +2
                        Quote: bask
                        It has an additional radio station operating in the KB wave band, a collapsible antenna, navigation equipment and an auxiliary generator.

                        Yes, Andrey, for sure. Commander tanks all have an additional receiver. Formerly from a battalion commander and higher. Now from the company.
                        This allows you to hear the superior commander with one ear, your unit with the other ear.
                        Plus navigation.
                        Two antennas + deployment kit.
                        But to see the divisional tank ... it would be interesting, I agree with Sergey.
                        wink
                      8. svp67
                        svp67 18 October 2013 19: 55
                        +1
                        Quote: Aleks tv
                        Now from the company.

                        Sash, now all the linear ones are equipped with an additional receiver ...
                        The kit comes with the P173

                        P173P receiver
                      9. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 18 October 2013 20: 06
                        +1
                        As far as I know, this receiver was originally intended for duplex communication.
              3. Aleks tv
                Aleks tv 18 October 2013 19: 31
                +1
                Quote: bask
                Represents the KShM, the commander of a tank division.

                Greetings, Andrew.

                Hmm ... few people have been to such a mafia.
                laughing
              4. bask
                bask 18 October 2013 19: 54
                +1
                Quote: Aleks tv
                . few people have been to such a mafia.

                Hi Lesh.
                Panoramic sights commander for Russian tanks

                Maybe this is a rough comparison, but for the MBT commander (in my non-professional opinion), you need to ..
                "" "Developed in collaboration with Kollmorgen Electro Optical, ISIS replaces the traditional optical path of existing periscopes with high-definition video cameras and fiber optic communications. Surveillance cameras are transmitted in real time to a large-format display in the control room. Lockheed Martin engineers also created the system image processing received by ISIS cameras. "" "http://lenta.ru/news/2006/06/06/periscop/
              5. Aleks tv
                Aleks tv 18 October 2013 20: 25
                +4
                Quote: bask
                but for the MBT commander

                Helmet display.
                Vision "through the armor" by turning the head.

                Here it is - a necessary future ...
                repeat
                Andryukh, even I was completely dreaming.
                lol
              6. Alex 241
                Alex 241 18 October 2013 20: 29
                +3
                Yes, for heaven’s sake Lesh, here’s for you the NSCU Slit -3UM. Just a little processing for tank needs.
              7. bask
                bask 18 October 2013 20: 38
                +2
                Quote: Alex 241
                M. Just a little processing for tank needs.

                Great idea Sanya.
                For future ,,, Almaty ,,, (I hope we will survive), that’s it).
              8. The comment was deleted.
              9. atalef
                atalef 18 October 2013 20: 53
                +3
                Quote: Alex 241
                Yes, for heaven’s sake Lesh, here’s for you the NSCU Slit -3UM. Just a little processing for tank needs.

                Hi Sash. my employee’s wife makes such helmets for tankers (factory in Tel Hanan. Nesher)
              10. svp67
                svp67 18 October 2013 20: 55
                +1
                Quote: atalef
                my employee’s wife makes such helmets for tank crews (Tel Hanan plant
                Now, the more people are already doing, what are we bad. I think that the future lies with such systems ...
              11. Alex 241
                Alex 241 18 October 2013 21: 03
                +1
                Hi Sash. Well, the system is working.
              12. atalef
                atalef 18 October 2013 21: 12
                +3
                Quote: Alex 241
                .Well, the system works

                And quite a long time ago, about 10 years ago, (just there was the operation of the Protective Wall) he (by the way Senya) told that his wife (Tanya) began to produce. she was then responsible for the release, so he painted me in every detail
              13. Alex 241
                Alex 241 18 October 2013 21: 15
                +1
                Sash, well, NSCU is 20 years old for sure.
      2. Lopatov
        Lopatov 18 October 2013 20: 42
        +2
        Have tried already. The tankers refused. It seems that there were problems of a physiological nature, bouts of motion sickness. The brain could not cope.
      3. svp67
        svp67 18 October 2013 20: 53
        +1
        Quote: Spade
        Have tried already. The tankers refused. It seems that there were problems of a physiological nature, bouts of motion sickness. The brain could not cope.
        The wrong people were tested or they were shown a film about the sea using the "helmet" ... laughing
      4. bask
        bask 18 October 2013 21: 08
        +2
        Quote: Spade
        bouts of motion sickness. The brain could not cope.

        But how do flyers cope? Yes, even during the overload.
        The main preparation and work on simulators.
      5. Lopatov
        Lopatov 18 October 2013 21: 13
        +2
        I do not know. This is a real problem that first surfaced when they tried to transmit information from a drone through a helmet-mounted indicator.
        If information is superimposed, everything is fine, if you have to deal with two realities at the same time, the brain will fail.
      6. Alex 241
        Alex 241 18 October 2013 21: 20
        +2
        There, apparently, the matter is in image stabilization, when accommodation occurs on the near object and on the distant one, then I agree, it can also jam.
      7. Lopatov
        Lopatov 18 October 2013 21: 36
        +2
        Ches a word, I do not know what the problem was. But it was for sure.
  2. svp67
    svp67 18 October 2013 21: 16
    +1
    Quote: bask
    Main preparation
    It is just necessary to conduct normal morning physical exercises and physical training classes not to be reduced to one run and passing tests, the vestibular apparatus is training ...
  3. Lopatov
    Lopatov 18 October 2013 21: 19
    +1
    This is not a problem of the vestibular apparatus.
  4. svp67
    svp67 18 October 2013 21: 28
    0
    Quote: Spade
    This is not a problem of the vestibular apparatus.

    And what? If it cradles, then there’s one thing ... What?
  5. Lopatov
    Lopatov 18 October 2013 21: 35
    +1
    I’m not an expert in the field of physiology of the brain, something is outweighed there.
  6. bask
    bask 18 October 2013 21: 51
    +2
    Quote: svp67
    And what? If it cradles, then there’s one thing ... What?

    Quote: Spade
    and physiology of the brain, something pereklinilo there.

    The brain is a dark matter, not studied request
    For the vestibular apparatus, the inner ear and cerebellum are responsible.
    And these are innate abilities that can be enhanced by training.
  7. The comment was deleted.
  8. Alex 241
    Alex 241 18 October 2013 21: 48
    +2
    No way, Andryush, it’s just because of the sight I wrote already. Because of the information taken from the display, the person turns out to be in zero gravity, the vestibular apparatus cannot understand what position the body and head are in.
  9. PLO
    PLO 18 October 2013 21: 55
    +2
    No way, Andryush, it’s just because of the sight I wrote already. Because of the information taken from the display, the person turns out to be in zero gravity, the vestibular apparatus cannot understand what position the body and head are in.

    allow remark hi
    the vestibular apparatus cannot be mistaken, it has no brains wink

    the problem is that the vestibular apparatus gives some signals, but the eyes are completely different and the brain understands that they are not coordinated and does not know which organ to "trust"

    training the vestibular apparatus will not help here

    this is the problem of all virtual helmets, here only augmented reality can help
    actually, such a thing was wanted to be fooled by the Fu-35 penguin, but the problem is that everything depends on a too much delay in the output of information and the brain feels false
  10. Alex 241
    Alex 241 18 October 2013 22: 04
    +2
    Yes, there are so many factors that affect me, at the age of 6 I was rocked by any type of transport, I had only approached the bus, started corkscrew, and then it passed just as abruptly. They said about Nelson, withstood the terrible storms, but it was worth entering Thames they immediately put a bucket in front of him.
  11. PLO
    PLO 18 October 2013 22: 18
    +2
    it was similar in childhood.
    only for some reason I have smells.
    I can stand the motion sickness itself without problems, but it’s worth adding a bad smell to it (for example, used diesel fuel, the terrible rear seats of the Ikarus brr), it's just awful smile
  12. svp67
    svp67 19 October 2013 05: 34
    +1
    It looks like we are all gathered here - "painful" wink
  13. bask
    bask 18 October 2013 22: 22
    +2
    Quote: Alex 241
    Yes, there are so many factors that affect me, at the age of 6 I was rocked by any kind of

    Vestibular analyzer: located in the vestibule sacs and semicircular canals of the inner ear.

    When the position of the head or the whole body changes, with vibration, acceleration or deceleration of the rectilinear movement, the otoliths move and pull the hairs of the sensitive cells beneath them. This causes the formation of a stream of nerve impulses going to the medulla oblongata.

    In the process of flight training, skills are formed that provide appropriate interaction between the pilot and the aircraft at various loads.
  14. Alex 241
    Alex 241 18 October 2013 22: 32
    +2
    There is such an exercise flying under the blind, this is where miracles begin!
  15. svp67
    svp67 19 October 2013 05: 33
    0
    Quote: Alex 241
    I was sick of 6 years in any kind of transport

    Sasha, likewise ... until one kind old granny told me to look at the road, well, and then I trained ... no longer toiled.
  16. Lopatov
    Lopatov 18 October 2013 22: 07
    +2
    This is probably the problem. One eye shows the situation behind the armor. And this corresponds to information from the vestibular. The other eye is what's inside the armor. The brain cannot be determined and begins to fail.
  17. PLO
    PLO 18 October 2013 22: 15
    +1
    almost right. just the opposite.
    the video information behind the armor does not correspond to the vestibular apparatus, because the camera is mounted on the tank body.

    those. let’s say a tank drove into a hole and tipped over its nose, the eye shows that you are in a certain relation to the horizon, and the vestibular apparatus says something completely different.


    theoretically, the problem can be solved if in any way gyro-stabilize the camera relative to a person
  18. Lopatov
    Lopatov 18 October 2013 22: 24
    0
    Quote: olp
    video information behind the armor does not correspond to the vestibular apparatus

    Then it’s better to say that the information from one and the other eye does not correspond to the indications of the vestibular.
    And if there is one discrepancy - the body feels acceleration, and the eyes show immobility, then the brain can still figure it out (though not completely, tankers can tell a lot about glitches in the rotating tower of a riding tank). And if two, the brain begins to wedge.
  19. PLO
    PLO 18 October 2013 22: 29
    +2
    quite possibly so deeply i don't know this topic
    there is certainly a dependence on the number of discrepancies and on their degree + individual endurance
  20. bask
    bask 18 October 2013 22: 34
    +1
    Quote: olp
    gyrostabilize the camera relative to a person

    Quote: Spade
    And if two, the brain begins to wedge.

    Then pass on the info .. just for one eye.
  21. Lopatov
    Lopatov 18 October 2013 22: 43
    +2
    So I just wrote about the transfer in one eye.

    I’ll write below, it will soon press completely to the borders of the page.
  22. Alex 241
    Alex 241 18 October 2013 22: 46
    0
    Or can it simply display the adapted image from the cameras without any rattles? Because if the external image is on one eye and the internal one on the other ...... the tower will jam faster. Do not forget that the pilot has a transparent flashlight.
  23. bask
    bask 18 October 2013 23: 11
    +2
    Quote: Spade
    This helmet is not a "transparent armor", but an artificial reality on the simulator

    Quote: Alex 241
    Or it can simply display the adapted image from the cameras without any

    Need scientific research.
    There are institutes, still. Including with imitation of a tower of MBT.
    They will come to this technology sooner or later.
    Due to the rapid development of remotely controlled combat modules.
    When using a helmet-mounted display, the commander’s response to threats and his information content will be several times higher.
    Arms operators turntables ,, Apache ,,
    Fly at night in absolute darkness.
  24. Alex 241
    Alex 241 18 October 2013 23: 18
    +1
    Ah Andryukh, how many ideas! To realize.
  25. atalef
    atalef 18 October 2013 22: 17
    +1
    Quote: Spade
    This is probably the problem. One eye shows the situation behind the armor. And this corresponds to information from the vestibular. The other eye is what's inside the armor. The brain cannot be determined and begins to fail.

    In general, all these arguments are rather strange, I don’t think that Jewish tankers have special brains, but tankers have displays for quite some time, maybe there is a problem in programming and displaying the picture on the display?
  26. Lopatov
    Lopatov 18 October 2013 22: 28
    +1
    It remains to find out what comes to the helmet-mounted displays of Israeli tankers.
  27. Lopatov
    Lopatov 18 October 2013 22: 37
    +1
    Sorry, but you were mistaken.

    I joked here and found: http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4132371,00.html

    This helmet is not a "transparent armor", but an artificial reality on the simulator
  28. bask
    bask 18 October 2013 22: 10
    0
    Quote: olp

    the problem is that the vestibular apparatus gives some signals, but the eyes are completely different and the brain understands that they are not coordinated and does not know which organ to "trust"

    Quote: olp
    everything rests on too much delay in the output of information and the brain feels false

    That's right olp, simple and clear. good
  29. svp67
    svp67 19 October 2013 05: 39
    +1
    Guys, everything can be solved a little easier, well, and more difficult at the same time - by stabilizing the workplace ... By the way, such work has already been carried out in the 80s, but successfully "stalled" at the time of the collapse of the Union.
  30. Bad_gr
    Bad_gr 21 October 2013 00: 39
    0
    Quote: svp67
    stabilizing the workplace ...

    It’s even scary to imagine this: the tank turned 180 degrees - and the commander is already sitting with his back in the direction.

    A stabilized image is quite sufficient, accompanied by targets: a tank with a crew spins as it needs, and the target in the center of the screen is relatively stationary.
  31. Alexander Kirov
    Alexander Kirov 21 October 2013 00: 09
    0
    Flyers have a different brain, but ours works for alcohol ...
  32. svp67
    svp67 18 October 2013 20: 46
    +1
    Quote: Aleks tv
    Helmet display.
    Vision "through the armor" by turning the head.

    good Stunned. And what is bad, then? Yes, nothing ... Lesh, urgently PATENT the idea ...
  33. Aleks tv
    Aleks tv 18 October 2013 20: 52
    +2
    Quote: svp67
    Lesh, urgently PATENT the idea ...

    Aaaaaaa .....
    belay
    Where to run ?!?!?!.....
    laughing

    Oh, we won’t survive when such systems are put on production tanks of line units.
  34. svp67
    svp67 18 October 2013 21: 06
    +1
    Quote: Aleks tv
    Oh, we won’t survive when such systems are put on production tanks of line units.

    But I want to ... I really want to, not for us, so those who came after us had the equipment of the HIGHEST world standards. The country is large, there are few of us, it will have to mean and fight for three or five and it is easier to do this with modern technology ...
  35. bask
    bask 18 October 2013 21: 12
    +2
    Quote: Aleks tv
    Oh, we won’t survive when such systems are put on production tanks of line units.

    Out of dispute, truth is born.
    Let’s survive. good
    But the idea is really great.
    For more aerospace technologies, for MBT, it is necessary to apply. what
  36. Alex 241
    Alex 241 18 October 2013 21: 13
    +3
    Lesh I share if that laughing But if you really need to be promoted, because Lesh, your idea is absolutely sound and we decideand I!
  37. Aleks tv
    Aleks tv 18 October 2013 21: 17
    +2
    Quote: Alex 241
    Lesh I share if that

    No problem, Sanya. I'll call everyone.
    Lish would have been enough vodka.
    laughing

    Yes, and not my idea. It has long been talked about in smoking rooms, visionaries, damn it ...
    repeat
  38. Alex 241
    Alex 241 18 October 2013 21: 24
    +2
    Quote: Aleks tv
    visionaries
    Yes, absolutely sound thought, here are the systems of visual modeling.
  39. Metlik
    Metlik 18 October 2013 21: 54
    +3
    I read all the comments. Many good proposals, but I liked the "Ladoga" with UAVs the most.
    At sea, aircraft carriers have proven their superiority over battleships, all over land.
  • svp67
    svp67 18 October 2013 19: 04
    +2
    Quote: Spade
    because, being distracted by the leadership of other platoon tanks, he will not use his capabilities to all 100 percent.

    Or maybe everything is simpler, you just need to saturate the tank with such equipment so that it does not interfere, but helps to fight ... And then the platoon commander will normally "work" and the number of tanks in the platoon can be raised ...
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 18 October 2013 19: 12
      +1
      I don’t know ... I think that the platoon should be transferred to the KShM.

      The number of tanks in the platoon is limited not by the capabilities of the KV to manage them, but by the capabilities of the infantry.
    2. svp67
      svp67 18 October 2013 19: 30
      0
      Quote: Spade
      The number of tanks in the platoon is limited not by the capabilities of the KV to manage them, but by the capabilities of the infantry.

      And therefore, in ordinary "tank" units there were three tanks in a platoon, in "motorized rifle tank" - four, and in "border protection units" - five ... It was not the number of infantry that played the main role ...
    3. Lopatov
      Lopatov 18 October 2013 19: 51
      0
      Quote: svp67
      And therefore, in ordinary "tank" units there were three tanks in a platoon, in "motorized rifle tank" - four

      And not vice versa? Standard Soviet tactics are one line tank per platoon. Only the "regiments on vehicles" had 4 platoons in the company. Regiments on armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles - three line platoons in the company.


      Quote: svp67
      and in the "border protection units" - five ...

      Well this is a completely different story.
    4. Aleks tv
      Aleks tv 18 October 2013 20: 05
      +1
      Quote: Spade
      And not vice versa?

      No.

      In the tank regiment in the platoons of the 3 tank. Total 94 cars.
      In the tank battalion of a motorized rifle regiment in platoons of the 4 tank. Total 41 cars.

      94 + 41 + 41 + 41 = number of tanks in the MSD.
    5. Lopatov
      Lopatov 18 October 2013 20: 13
      +1
      We had three. In the tank battalion of a motorized rifle regiment. A company of 10 tanks. Battalion 31.
    6. Aleks tv
      Aleks tv 18 October 2013 20: 19
      +1
      Quote: Spade
      In the tank battalion of a motorized rifle regiment.

      Happenes.
      The army is Russian.
      lol

      Maybe it was a "combined" regiment? There were many of them in the Czech Republic, almost all of them. The regiment was "assembled" by the entire division.
    7. Lopatov
      Lopatov 18 October 2013 20: 22
      0
      No, regular. Bred from Germany.

      And in the Czech Republic, we had assembled battalion tactical groups. One, and then two from the regiment.

      But the art. There were two divisions in the regiment.
    8. svp67
      svp67 18 October 2013 20: 52
      0
      Quote: Spade
      But the art. There were two divisions in the regiment.
      Stem? Or barrel + jet
    9. Lopatov
      Lopatov 18 October 2013 20: 58
      0
      Stem. True, one whole year without technology was turned out. Reactive only in the artillery regiment was.

      Maybe because the mountain division was considered? We didn’t even have a tank regiment, only a special division of divisions.
    10. svp67
      svp67 18 October 2013 21: 11
      +1
      I liked the staff structures in the USSR Armed Forces, that there was an enemy, they themselves could not figure it out. In Primorye he served in a regiment, where not only were there two artillery divisions (barrel + jet), but also the infantry in each battalion had two min. Batteries (on "NONs" + "Vasilkovaya") - enormous power .. Well, we have 41 tanks in baht ...
    11. Lopatov
      Lopatov 18 October 2013 21: 22
      0
      Mortars were initially three-platoon - roughly speaking, a regular 2-platoon 82-mm "trays", plus a platoon with "cornflowers". And then the 4th platoon of 120-mm "sleigh" was added to the batteries
  • svp67
    svp67 18 October 2013 20: 22
    +1
    Quote: Spade
    And not vice versa? Standard Soviet tactics are one line tank per platoon. Only the "regiments on vehicles" had 4 platoons in the company. Regiments on armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles - three line platoons in the company.

    Served in all three of these organizations, so "answer"
  • Alekseev
    Alekseev 18 October 2013 19: 52
    +1
    Quote: Spade
    Do I need a platoon commander in battle?

    But this is an interesting question.
    At least instructions are unlikely to give.
    The radio commander commander (company)
    Even disassemble a graphic file in an off-road tank that came to its display (if there is, of course), comprehend it and make a decision, set tasks for the tanks by means of communications, while observing the battlefield and commanding their own crew ...
    Is this all from the realm of theoretical fiction?
    A platoon is needed mainly to prepare for battle and to replace a company commander if necessary.
    And he controls, at least in the attack, according to the good old principle: "Do as I do!"
    1. svp67
      svp67 18 October 2013 20: 35
      +1
      Quote: Alekseev
      Even disassemble a graphic file in an off-road tank that came to its display (if there is, of course), comprehend it and make a decision, set tasks for the tanks by means of communications, while observing the battlefield and commanding their own crew ...

      So it is NOT NECESSARY TO PUT ON THE RADIO ALREADY. - GRAPHICALLY, too, according to the TABLET ... It's all solvable, or rather, it has already been decided how to do it, everything is much simpler and more intelligible and the main thing is specifically tied to the map, or rather to its graphic image, plus the GLONASS is used to bind to the terrain of each object .. In short, the commander knows everything about his subordinates, the location, the amount of ammunition, fuel, etc., etc.
    2. Alekseev
      Alekseev 18 October 2013 20: 55
      0
      Quote: svp67
      So DO NOT ALREADY BE PUT ON RADIO. - Also GRAPHICALLY, according to the TABLET ...

      A GRAPHICALLY, on a TABLET, as without a radio?
      Come to paint on every car? lol
    3. svp67
      svp67 19 October 2013 05: 49
      0
      Quote: Alekseev
      A GRAPHICALLY, on a TABLET, as without a radio?
      Come to paint on every car?

      Let's just say it - not in a voice ... But drawing on the screen is not a problem now, for this a lot of things have already been invented, it remains only to comprehend and apply ...
  • Aleks tv
    Aleks tv 18 October 2013 18: 55
    +2
    Quote: Nayhas
    COMMANDER TANK!

    Separate car.
    With two devices, shitty cloud antenna coded communication.
    Camera post.
    Plus spare parts and materials for maintenance.
    Trained crew.

    For any separate car, if not cool.
    1. svp67
      svp67 18 October 2013 19: 11
      +2
      Quote: Aleks tv
      For any separate car, if not cool.

      Do not go to a fortuneteller ... But it may be better to have one in the battalion unit and on the basis of BMP3 or MTLB-U, a device of a well-known and already verified and the main place in it ....
  • lelikas
    lelikas 18 October 2013 23: 36
    0
    Quote: Nayhas

    But doesn’t it seem that it’s easier to use a mini UAV launched from the aft niche of the tank’s tower, even if it’s tethered, it receives power from the tank control unit and transmits information through the wire, because everything is visible from above ...

    It seems to me that it’s better to put several launchers there, which would fire a small module equipped with a camera and a radar - hanging on a parachute above the battlefield, it would transmit information to tactical tablets.
  • GastaClaus69
    GastaClaus69 18 October 2013 12: 16
    +2
    No radar, but anti-aircraft guns, yes. Moreover, the guns are controlled through the panoramic sight of the commander, and at night using the thermal imaging sight monitor of the VEGA control system.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 18 October 2013 12: 43
      +2
      What's the point? The effectiveness of such a solution is zero. On high-speed without radar, shooting is impossible, and various kinds of helicopters will shoot such a tank without entering the effective fire zone of these spitters. Unless on ground targets to apply.
      1. GastaClaus69
        GastaClaus69 18 October 2013 13: 28
        -1
        Tell the Slovaks about it.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 18 October 2013 13: 44
          +1
          And what, the Slovaks-carriers of truth in the last resort? Anti-aircraft artillery systems without radar became nonsense in the last century. Why? And because it is impossible to calculate the lead without knowing the exact speed of the target.
          1. cth; fyn
            cth; fyn 21 October 2013 15: 53
            0
            but in the city, as he frisked, all Czechs tumbled out of the windows.
  • svp67
    svp67 18 October 2013 15: 09
    +1
    Quote: Spade
    Did we put radars on tanks?

    Only in "experienced", while recognized as "not promising", better "thermal imager" + "tactical situation tablet".
  • Starover_Z
    Starover_Z 18 October 2013 11: 28
    +2
    Soon, tankers would wear it to developers and customers. We got it already.

    The bureaucrats from the MO who are ordering old equipment to those tanks and on business trips with them to hot spots! You can peck a misunderstanding person countlessly until you feel, understand the need for new and convenient equipment, which will save people's lives!
  • Alekseev
    Alekseev 18 October 2013 12: 15
    +1
    Quote: Aleks tv
    And TKN-3 both put on the tank and continue to put,

    If this is true, then it is quite fair to give the head of the State Academic Bolshoi Theater of Arts (if it is, after perdyukov, of course) what ) or another official responsible for this very chaos.
    Personally, I think that the above TKN is one of the most miserable shortcomings (if not the most) of our tanks.
    But "Equipping tank commanders with stabilized panoramic devices will AT TIMES increase the effectiveness of the use of weapons.
    After equipping the gunners with thermal imagers, the installation of panoramas for the commander is the main goal of the upgrades. "- absolutely precise definition! good
    1. uwzek
      uwzek 18 October 2013 18: 59
      +1
      Why did you decide that TKN-3 is still being installed on the tanks? The author of the article blurred the topic a little, perhaps because of reading out our advertising brochures, very clumsy. The tank commander received the possibility of a circular (panoramic) view by having a command tower (turret) in which he could turn regardless of the position of the gun. Having found a target, the commander pressed the "Target designation" button and the barrel turned in the direction of his gaze, a similar feature was already on the IS tanks. It's just that the rotation sector of the commander's turret is not circular, it is deprived of its own internal control system, and the power to the equipment placed in it is supplied through a flexible cable, which is understandably unable to rotate only in one direction. Half of the volume of the cylinder of the commander's cupola is occupied by the notorious control and observation device (your TKN-3 (there are also TKN-4, TKN-5)). These sights are stabilized in two planes and have long allowed the tank commander to shoot himself with a slightly lower passport accuracy (the gunner's sight is mechanically connected to the gun barrel, and the commander's sight is purely "electric"). The introduction of a thermal imager removed this drawback - there is one sight, two televisions, and the joysticks of the commander and gunner are similar.
      What the author of the article means by the panoramic mode of the sight of the tank commander means only the absence of a commander (rotating) turret on the tank - the commander sits directly, the machine controls located in his zone are always in their usual place, and only the cap of his aim sight is spinning (to this still needs to get used to). Therefore, during the modernization of the T-72, no one even began to remove the TKN-3 sight, it differs from the same TKN-5, mainly, in the range of the night channel, and with the introduction of a thermal imager (an order of magnitude further looking) it is simply silly .. .
      And the T-90MS is the first modern Russian tank without a rotating commander’s tower, which is why it uses a panoramic sight. Article zero - it is about nothing.
      1. Alekseev
        Alekseev 18 October 2013 19: 34
        +1
        Did not understand you.
        Does the modernized T-72B3 cost TKN-3 or not?
        Is there another (modern) commander’s sight on this machine?
        If so, it is very interesting how they put it together with TKN.
        The thing is that turning the "cap of its gun sight" (head) with a stabilized field of view and the entire rather heavy commander's cupola, leaning against the shaking eyepieces of the TKN, striving to hit you on the forehead, especially in motion with any significant roll, is " two big differences. " Even if there is an electric drive, like on a 64-ke.
        I also remember the instructions of my company commander: do not look at these piz..lki (that is, the TKN eyepieces), watch on the go in the "triplex".
        In general, this correctly characterized the effectiveness of this device.
        1. Aleks tv
          Aleks tv 18 October 2013 19: 44
          +1
          Quote: Alekseev
          I also remember the instructions of my company commander: you don’t look at these piz..lki (that is, TKN eyepieces),

          Yeah, Alexey.

          With a full-time shot, it can star in balls like this - it will not seem enough. It must be able to be pressed through the forehead.
      2. Aleks tv
        Aleks tv 18 October 2013 19: 40
        0
        Quote: uwzek
        Why did you decide that TKN-3 is still being put on tanks?

        I haven’t decided anything.
        TKN-3 with 2 generation image intensifier simply continue to put on the latest T-72B3 upgrade. That's all.

        If there is a desire to twist this turret with your muscles and crush "target designation", twist to your health, I had enough, like many of my colleagues. Fuck what you see on the move, if you can't make a "stabilizer" from your own body ... You get tired like a mammoth.
        And everyone knows that on the T-80 (I don’t know about the T-64) there were TKN-4, only they are stabilized in one plane, and not, as you write, in two, why not even put them now on the T-72B3?

        I repeat once again - TKN-3 does not meet the requirements of modern combat assigned to it.
        1. svp67
          svp67 18 October 2013 19: 47
          0
          Quote: Aleks tv
          I repeat once again - TKN-3 does not meet the requirements of modern combat assigned to it.

          In the attached photo of the "workplace" there is NO TKN ... it is simply not needed there.
      3. Bad_gr
        Bad_gr 18 October 2013 20: 17
        +1
        Quote: uwzek
        The commander of the tank received the possibility of a circular (panoramic) view by capturing the command tower (turret), in which he could rotate regardless of the position of the gun.

        So it can be said about the commander of the T-34 tank, which received the turret, the same had the ability to all-round visibility. Unless I could not shoot.

        Another question is how it is more convenient for the commander to inspect the space around the tank:
        twirling the potentiometer with three fingers and looking at a stabilized image (including in the IR range) or twisting the whole tower a hundred and fifty kilograms in weight.
        1. bask
          bask 18 October 2013 20: 52
          0
          Quote: Bad_gr
          twisting the whole tower a hundred and a half pounds weight.

          Also in the city on a narrow street.
          On ,, Panther ,, model Ausf.D was installed commander’s turret, in the form of an urn, with six observation devices. In the process of upgrading Ausf. D the observation periscope TSR1 began to be installed on the commander’s cupola, allowing the tank commander to observe the terrain even from cover.
          1. Bad_gr
            Bad_gr 18 October 2013 21: 05
            +1
            Quote: bask
            the observation periscope TSR1 began to be installed on the commander’s cupola, allowing the tank commander to observe the terrain even from cover.

            We had a periscope on the T-62 at the loader. It is without magnification (ordinary triplex), but it was possible to look in any direction + up and down.
  • svp67
    svp67 18 October 2013 15: 07
    +1
    Quote: Aleks tv
    A panoramic device is simply necessary for the tank commander !!!

    Alexey hi
    I looked at the photo
    Workplace Commander, T-90MS
    I sincerely "envy" and rejoice, but it would be necessary for this "workplace" to become commonplace, and not just an advertising picture, and yet, point 6 "control panel" is not entirely clear. If this is what I "think", then it seems to me that the "good old" Cheburashka "or" newfangled "" joystick "is better ...
    1. Aleks tv
      Aleks tv 18 October 2013 15: 47
      +1
      Quote: svp67
      but it would be necessary that this "workplace" became commonplace, and not just an advertising picture

      yes Yeah. I also had a stupor when I first saw it.

      Greetings, Sergey.
      hi

      Quote: svp67
      item 6 "control panel"

      I was also interested in items "6" and "8". ("7" is a duplicated gunner's sight control, a little familiar).
      Especially "8" ... Two brown crap do not accidentally stick out, forming a "cheburashka"? Somewhere here this beloved radish hid.
      laughing
      1. svp67
        svp67 18 October 2013 15: 54
        +1
        Quote: Aleks tv
        Two brown crap do not accidentally protrude outward, forming a "cheburashka"?

        No, it looks like "protective strips", they cover something there ... take a closer look at the middle of the head of the bolts sticking out, and it would not be convenient for such a "crap" to work ... But I really like what and how changes in the internal "interior" ... I just want to exclaim - "THIS IS TO HOLD" and, most importantly, "DO NOT STOP WHAT YOU HAVE."
        Our soldier deserved to fight on the BEST TECHNIQUE IN THE WORLD ...
        1. Bad_gr
          Bad_gr 18 October 2013 19: 35
          +1
          Jobs from the "leclerk", the most sophisticated in the filling, but also one of the most rejected for the same reason (as the press says):




          1. svp67
            svp67 18 October 2013 19: 41
            +2
            Quote: Bad_gr
            Workplaces from the "leclerk", the most sophisticated on the filling,

            "MC" even against this background looks worthy ... which pleases.
            1. Alex 241
              Alex 241 18 October 2013 19: 48
              +3
              ......................................
              1. svp67
                svp67 18 October 2013 19: 50
                +2
                Alexander, thanks for the photo. It looks like Alexey is right "crap" - controls ...
              2. bask
                bask 18 October 2013 20: 06
                +3
                Hi Sash.
                All instruments protrude into the MBT housing, interfering with the crew.
                You need, on the plane, the dashboard.
                1. Alex 241
                  Alex 241 18 October 2013 20: 09
                  +2
                  Hi guys, well then.
                  1. svp67
                    svp67 18 October 2013 20: 27
                    +2
                    Quote: Alex 241
                    Hi guys, well then.

                    Cool good If only "born to crawl, fly ..." And so, of course, BEAUTIFUL and modern.
                2. svp67
                  svp67 18 October 2013 20: 14
                  +1
                  Quote: bask
                  All instruments protrude into the MBT housing, interfering with the crew.
                  You need, on the plane, the dashboard.

                  How to explain ... in the tank, all the devices seem to "weigh" leaving space at the bottom for the tanker, and even this arrangement allows replacing the equipment blocks, not even for a specialist repairman, and extra "hardware" that can break down and cause injury and wounds in the tank should be smaller ...
                  1. bask
                    bask 18 October 2013 20: 25
                    +1
                    And what is hanging in this tank? laughing
                    Quote: svp67
                    How to explain ... in the tank, all the devices seem to "weigh" leaving space below for the tanker, and even this
                  2. Alex 241
                    Alex 241 18 October 2013 20: 26
                    +1
                    Seryozha I just have an idea, it can be crazy, of course, to take out the hardware, and leave only the indicators, by analogy with an airplane, all the blocks are in the cockpit space, and are combined into mounting blocks.
                    1. svp67
                      svp67 18 October 2013 20: 43
                      +1
                      Quote: Alex 241
                      Seryozha I just have an idea, it can be crazy, of course, to take out the hardware, and leave only the indicators, by analogy with an airplane, all the blocks are in the cockpit space, and are combined into mounting blocks.

                      Sasha, we "sinners" very often have a problem - "URGENT, ANYTHING TO REPAIR", and somehow it is calmer when everything is covered with THICK armor. Although of course it would be good. While still a cadet, one of the designers of the Malyshev Plant told us that in fifteen years the tankers will serve on tanks dressed in WHITE Gowns ... Almost thirty years have passed, and the overalls at first only "brightened", but now they are "stained covered themselves. " Maybe it's for the best ...
                    2. Aleks tv
                      Aleks tv 18 October 2013 20: 48
                      +1
                      Quote: svp67
                      "URGENTLY, ANYTHING TO REPAIR"

                      That's right, Sergey ...
                      Moreover, "fix" right here, without leaving the "cash register".
                      So, Sanya, we need to see all the wires and connectors, and preferably at arm's length.
                    3. svp67
                      svp67 18 October 2013 20: 49
                      +1
                      Quote: Aleks tv
                      So, Sanya, we need to see all the wires and connectors.

                      Moreover, they must be within walking distance, so that not only the eyes can see, but the hands can also be reached ...
                    4. Aleks tv
                      Aleks tv 18 October 2013 20: 57
                      +1
                      Quote: svp67
                      but his hands got ...

                      I also added the phrase a little later to my comment.
                      Thoughts converge ...
                      laughing
                    5. svp67
                      svp67 18 October 2013 20: 59
                      +1
                      Quote: Aleks tv
                      Thoughts converge ...
                      Some "universities" graduated ...
                3. Alex 241
                  Alex 241 18 October 2013 20: 57
                  +1
                  That took and shot down on takeoff laughing
                4. svp67
                  svp67 18 October 2013 20: 58
                  +1
                  Quote: Alex 241
                  They took and shot down for takeoff

                  Well, why so tragic. Of course, we must strive for the best, just ADAPTATION is required for any technique ...
                5. Aleks tv
                  Aleks tv 18 October 2013 21: 08
                  +1
                  Quote: Alex 241
                  shot down on take-off

                  Yeah, you get down, how ...
                  laughing

                  Yes, and we are not going to fight with anyone ...
                  We have the most correct weapon:
                  lol
              3. bask
                bask 18 October 2013 21: 30
                +1
                Quote: Aleks tv
                Moreover, "fix" right here, without leaving the "cash register".

                Adapt, for MBT, YES.
                But apartura, on the same, Armata, I think will be so technically difficult.
                With the forces of the MBT crew, repair is unlikely to be possible.
                Quote: Spade
                Tanks are becoming more expensive and more efficient. Saturated with electronics. And it is impossible to ignore this, leaving the old control system.
              4. svp67
                svp67 18 October 2013 21: 32
                +1
                Quote: bask
                With the forces of the MBT crew, repairs can no longer be carried out. conduct.
                Well, what can I say - LIFE and PROGRESS DO NOT STOP ...
              5. Alex 241
                Alex 241 18 October 2013 21: 33
                +1
                Andryush, detect a malfunction before the unit, using the built-in control system, and change the malfunctioning unit.
        2. bask
          bask 18 October 2013 21: 04
          +1
          Quote: Alex 241
          indicators, by analogy with an airplane, all blocks are in the cockpit space, and are combined into mounting blocks.

          Sasha class good , designed the idea in technical language.
          In the event of a breakdown, only the mounting block changes.
          Data is issued by the onboard ...
        3. svp67
          svp67 18 October 2013 21: 27
          +1
          Quote: bask
          In the event of a breakdown, only the mounting block changes.
          Data is issued by the onboard ...

          Well, let's switch to the "American system" ...
        4. Alex 241
          Alex 241 18 October 2013 21: 31
          +1
          And what about Seryozha, blocks on the "knife" connectors, no SHRs, the faulty block down, a new one threw in, a few seconds and the whole thing is short.
  • Aleks tv
    Aleks tv 18 October 2013 20: 07
    0
    Yeah, Sanya, thanks for the photo!
    From this angle, the T-90ms did not see the equipment.
    Very interesting.
  • Aleks tv
    Aleks tv 18 October 2013 19: 57
    +1
    Quote: Bad_gr
    but also one of the most rejected for the same reason (as the press says):

    There were articles by our specialists serving the first deliveries of BMP-3 to Arabs.
    Those just bought Leclerc and there were joint firing:

    Ours made a reconciliation, on their own to the landfill, shot back.
    The custodian was prepared in the park for shooting, at the training ground on the trailer, then ... preparation for shooting again, since the tank is not ready for shooting after the trip, everything needs to be done again ...

    These stories are now in the internet, just too lazy to look. But the truth or not - I do not know.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 18 October 2013 20: 16
      +1
      http://vadimvswar.narod.ru/ALL_OUT/TiVOut0204/BMP3/BMP3001.htm
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Aaron Zawi
    Aaron Zawi 18 October 2013 10: 33
    +3
    The commander’s workplace makes a very good impression. Undoubtedly, a very serious breakthrough can be traced among the Russians in comparison with Soviet Soviet tank construction.
    1. Apollo
      Apollo 18 October 2013 11: 29
      +1
      quote-Workplace commander, T-90MS

      All about the T-90 MS tank and more.
    2. GastaClaus69
      GastaClaus69 18 October 2013 12: 19
      +1
      Alas, we were sitting assholes on shells and are sitting !!
      1. air wolf
        air wolf 18 October 2013 13: 22
        0
        I agree, but you can’t take out the ammunition in the annex to the tower? With her shooting during detanation, huh? Thought is good. And the engine forward like a BMP-1
        1. GastaClaus69
          GastaClaus69 18 October 2013 13: 27
          +1
          However, you will describe Merkava!
          1. svp67
            svp67 18 October 2013 16: 09
            0
            Quote: GastaClaus69
            However, you describe Merkava


            Or they saw "Armata" ...
  • roial
    roial 18 October 2013 11: 37
    +5
    The topic is interesting, but there is one BUT. Not so long ago, this site criticized the panoramic sight of the Ukrainian "Oplot" as being too big, an easy target for a sniper. I completely agree.
    Here we again see TWO rather large sight. If you watch a video of the Syrian battles, there quite often show the defeat of viewing devices by snipers, and on the T-72 they are several times smaller.

    So the question is, why not use camcorders with a wide viewing angle ??? Well, if not as the main one, but for duplication ??? A digital display is already available.

    Watching the tank biathlon, namely the semki from the side, we see a fairly clear picture, the image did not disappear during the shots or during movement.
    1. GastaClaus69
      GastaClaus69 18 October 2013 13: 29
      +1
      If so it would be possible to think would not push? A maximum of such cameras can be used on light armored vehicles.
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 18 October 2013 13: 47
        0
        Can. But not shoved. External review cameras were still on the late Soviet KShM.
      2. Aleks tv
        Aleks tv 18 October 2013 14: 00
        +1
        Quote: GastaClaus69
        A maximum of such cameras can be used on light armored vehicles.

        You’re straight special, you know everything ...
        We went on a whirlwind on the topic, scribbling comments on all the issues discussed.

        Already "envy" are taken from such a confident categoricalness and irrepressible speed. )))
        Wah wah.
    2. Lopatov
      Lopatov 18 October 2013 14: 12
      0
      Quote: roial
      So the question is, why not use camcorders with a wide viewing angle

      As far as I understand, the difficulty is exclusively in image stabilization, which can only be done by software. Those. to put a powerful computer is not a hand shake, you have to compensate.
      1. roial
        roial 18 October 2013 14: 22
        0
        Well, they would do it in America, Europe and other developed countries, but we will go the other way,
        How does the image stabilize in these sights? Probably in a mechanical way,
        and what prevents instead of optics on fur. stabilizer to attach a camera ???
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 18 October 2013 14: 33
          0
          This was not done in Great America. In Europe, as far as I know, only on the German technology demonstrator MBT Revolution. If you add a camera instead of optics, you get the same "bucket"

          Maybe we are talking about different things?
          1. roial
            roial 18 October 2013 14: 55
            0
            There are several methods of image stabilization at the moment.

            Optical image stabilization - the camera lens is attached to a special stabilizing device moving along the vertical and horizontal axes (similar to a stabilizer for a gun) which is powered by special. sensors.
            In size, this device is very compact (used in some cameras)

            Moving Image Stabilizer -in this system, the camera’s movement is not compensated by the camera stabilizer, but by its matrix mounted on a mobile platform.

            Electronic (Digital) Image Stabilizer - with this type of stabilization, approximately 40% of the pixels on the matrix are allocated to image stabilization and are not involved in image formation. When the camcorder shakes, the picture “floats” along the matrix, and the processor captures these fluctuations and makes corrections using reserve pixels to compensate for the jitter of the picture. This stabilization system is widely used in digital video cameras, where the matrix is ​​small (0,8MP, 1,3MP, etc.). It has a lower quality than other types of stabilization, but it is fundamentally cheaper, since it does not contain additional mechanical elements.
      2. uwzek
        uwzek 18 October 2013 19: 09
        0
        Much simpler is a swinging mirror in front of the lens. So all stabilizers of sights (and thermal imagers) are also arranged. The bullet hits only bulletproof glass and there may be a mirror itself - the sight is intact, it is inside the tank.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 18 October 2013 19: 16
          0
          Such a mechanism is still too big for this kind of application.
    3. Alexander Kirov
      Alexander Kirov 21 October 2013 00: 17
      0
      The idea of ​​installing a CCD as an observation device is not new, 1983. There was no element base, now there is a base, but there is no brain. To put this and forget about TKN-3B ... l.
  • cormorant
    cormorant 18 October 2013 14: 21
    0
    An excellent tank, but I didn’t hear something so that they were going to take it into service. So, a technology demonstrator. But the T-90MS is needed yesterday! Everyone is waiting for Armata, and this is another 5-7 years ...
  • roial
    roial 18 October 2013 16: 42
    0
    Stabilized camera (used to equip UAVs)

    red drums - mechanisms of horizontal and vertical stabilization
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 18 October 2013 18: 30
      +1
      You yourself started with criticism of the "bucket", and are proposing several such buckets instead?

      Here is the German version with wide-angle video cameras that provide observation in the "day-night" mode.



      360 degrees, small size, in perspective - automatic change of a failed camera
      1. roial
        roial 18 October 2013 20: 31
        +1
        the size of such a camera does not exceed 10 cm x 5 cm. while the size of the lens is less than 1 cm. laughing
  • M. Peter
    M. Peter 18 October 2013 19: 44
    +2
    Everything is very good and just wonderful, but it would be great if the mehana had at least a couple of side mirrors installed, it would be very cool. I always thought that it hindered doing this, it's not some kind of ZhPS or GLONASS there, it is not so expensive and very useful at the same time.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 18 October 2013 20: 20
      +2
      And it is better to connect it to the system of a panoramic panoramic view. Then, for example, during battles in the city, when the mechanic does not have much work, the tank will have one more eyes.
      1. Bad_gr
        Bad_gr 18 October 2013 20: 37
        +2
        Quote: Spade
        And it is better to connect it to the system of a panoramic panoramic view. Then, for example, during battles in the city, when the mechanic does not have much work, the tank will have one more eyes.

        I fully support. It is not convenient to look into mirrors through the triplex, unless when you go on a camping trip (and basically, there is hardly anything you can see besides dust). But cameras looking in different directions with access to them to all crew members, including the driver, would clearly not be out of place.
        By the way, the T-90ms on the bar, where the wind sensors are three cameras + on the right side of the tower is another. Overview in all 4 directions, relative to the tower.
        1. Aleks tv
          Aleks tv 18 October 2013 20: 42
          0
          Quote: Bad_gr
          But cameras looking in different directions with access to them to all crew members,

          And more of them, more ...
          laughing
          With duplication of each other.
          So that dirt and bullets do not knock out certain areas of the field of view.
          yes yes yes
        2. Lopatov
          Lopatov 18 October 2013 20: 51
          0
          Quote: Bad_gr
          By the way, the T-90ms on the bar, where the wind sensors are three cameras + on the right side of the tower is another. Overview in all 4 directions, relative to the tower.

          They would be spread on different sides of the tower. Better yet, put additional cartridges with interchangeable lenses. One fragment is damaged, the machine removes it and replaces it with a new one. The task is technically easy to solve.
          1. Bad_gr
            Bad_gr 18 October 2013 21: 13
            +1
            Quote: Spade
            One fragment is damaged, the machine removes it and replaces it with a new one. The task is technically easy to solve.

            If there are several cameras on the case, then there is no need for the machine:
            turned off one camera, turned on another. Better yet, if they are all turned on simultaneously, and the tank’s computer already forms an image.
            T-90ms, starboard camera (red arrow) laser light indicator-blue:
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 18 October 2013 21: 26
              +2
              There should be something like this:
              http://www.odfopt.com/odr/odr_hv_home.htm
  • Lopatov
    Lopatov 18 October 2013 22: 48
    +1
    Continuation of "transparent armor".

    Then transfer the info .. just for one eye.


    The fact that the photograph is augmented reality, the brain copes with it.
    The eye sees reality, supplemented by information from the equipment. For example, target characteristics, etc. But that is not it.
    1. Alex 241
      Alex 241 18 October 2013 22: 53
      0
      And in a moving tank with this monocle you will cling to everything.
      1. studentmati
        studentmati 18 October 2013 22: 57
        +1
        Quote: Alex 241
        And in a moving tank with this monocle you will cling to everything.


        Sorry if I interrupted. But the amateur’s question: how are these systems duplicated?
        1. Alex 241
          Alex 241 18 October 2013 23: 00
          0
          Hi Sash, these are just thoughts out loud, what could happen if ........ But I feel you have an idea, say it.
      2. Lopatov
        Lopatov 18 October 2013 23: 00
        +1
        All this can be solved. The technology is very promising. Now they are working on it on civilians - "Google", and in the future it will result in this:



        This is what the airman will see. There are scattering ellipses, and safe removal, and are marked with their ...



        http://rnd.cnews.ru/tech/innovations/news/line/index_science.shtml?2013/06/21/53


        3025
        1. Alex 241
          Alex 241 18 October 2013 23: 06
          +1
          Yes, I have a flytradar24 on my tablet, real-time information.
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 18 October 2013 23: 12
            +1
            The French riveted this for their anti-aircraft gunners, also augmented reality.
        2. studentmati
          studentmati 18 October 2013 23: 10
          0
          Quote: Spade
          All this can be solved. The technology is very promising. Now they are working on it on civilians - "Google", and in the future it will result in this:



          This is what the airman will see. There are scattering ellipses, and safe removal, and are marked with their ...



          http://rnd.cnews.ru/tech/innovations/news/line/index_science.shtml?2013/06/21/53



          3025

          The technology is necessary and promising, no doubt. But what will we do when, for example, in an apartment stuffed with sensors, sensors and other energy and intellectually dependent electronics, the lights were suddenly turned off and the batteries were low. For example, I know where I have a tap to mechanically shut off the supply of water and gas. And where are the candles and matches. I say figuratively, of course, but the point is that all this sophisticated electronics is effective with a low level of opposition from a potential adversary.
          1. Alex 241
            Alex 241 18 October 2013 23: 15
            +1
            Sasha offhand that the first thing came to mind is solar batteries. Or a wind generator like on an Airbus.
            1. studentmati
              studentmati 18 October 2013 23: 19
              0
              Quote: Alex 241


              Sasha offhand that the first thing came to mind is solar batteries. Or a wind generator like on an Airbus.


              Good thinking! good And I, so the first thing I remembered about the compass and astronavigation.
              1. Alex 241
                Alex 241 18 October 2013 23: 32
                0
                Sash in the tablet of each officer has a compass
          2. Lopatov
            Lopatov 18 October 2013 23: 19
            +1
            There was a time when the aircraft were not particularly reliable, but the one with which they left with their feet was considered a good landing.
            1. studentmati
              studentmati 18 October 2013 23: 21
              +1
              Quote: Spade
              There was a time when the aircraft were not particularly reliable, but the one with which they left with their feet was considered a good landing.


              I recalled the catastrophes F-22 associated with a complete shutdown of the aircraft’s energy. Or can I beguiled something?
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 18 October 2013 23: 26
                0
                Everything was much worse there. The Americans F-22 and did not immediately learn to fly through the date line.
                1. studentmati
                  studentmati 18 October 2013 23: 34
                  0
                  Quote: Spade
                  Everything was much worse there. The Americans F-22 and did not immediately learn to fly through the date line.


                  There is only one conclusion: "a calculator can only be a good help, but in no way a substitute for knowing the multiplication table."
                  1. Alex 241
                    Alex 241 18 October 2013 23: 35
                    +1
                    Quote: studentmati
                    a calculator can be just a good help, but not a substitute for knowing the multiplication table. "

                    Sanya slide rule.
                    1. studentmati
                      studentmati 18 October 2013 23: 37
                      0
                      Quote: Alex 241
                      Sanya slide rule.


                      Thank you, Sash for clarifying the amendment.
                      1. Alex 241
                        Alex 241 18 October 2013 23: 40
                        +1
                        The boot is more reliable in battle laughing
                  2. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 18 October 2013 23: 38
                    +1
                    Duplication complicates the system. In aviation, they seem to have already abandoned mechanical traction?
                    1. Alex 241
                      Alex 241 18 October 2013 23: 44
                      +1
                      In one form or another, they are still present.
                      1. studentmati
                        studentmati 18 October 2013 23: 46
                        +1
                        Quote: Alex 241
                        In one form or another, they are still present.


                        Where speeds and overloads allow, mechanics will remain a backup channel for a long time.
                      2. Alex 241
                        Alex 241 18 October 2013 23: 52
                        0
                        Yes Sash, this is where you started the conversation. The boot is still more reliable laughing
                  3. Alex 241
                    Alex 241 18 October 2013 23: 49
                    +1
                    Here, the matter is somewhat different; these helmets were rolled around on the Hornets; there were a lot of complaints about them.
          3. bask
            bask 18 October 2013 23: 51
            +1
            Quote: Spade
            There was a time when the aircraft were not particularly reliable, but the one with which they left with their feet was considered a good landing.

            And for artillery, a similar system is needed.
            The commander of the self-propelled guns, improves efficiency in the selection of targets and accuracy.
            At night in bad weather conditions.
            Our armored vehicles and artillery with aviation (turntables) should finally become all-daily and all-weather.
            1. Alex 241
              Alex 241 18 October 2013 23: 54
              +1
              Andrei, you need to integrate all types of troops into a single information system.
              1. studentmati
                studentmati 19 October 2013 00: 02
                +1
                Quote: Alex 241
                Andrei, you need to integrate all types of troops into a single information system.


                Great idea! But!
                In real conditions, a single information system should carry the function of a figuratively speaking duplicating system. Since its combat effectiveness in fact in a real, rather than an educational battle, is much lower than all previously developed and effectively proven systems. At least for today, I believe that this is so. I am talking about a confrontation of approximately equal parties.
                1. bask
                  bask 19 October 2013 00: 23
                  +1
                  Quote: studentmati
                  K. I am talking about the confrontation of approximately equal parties

                  But, against the bearded, the very thing.
                  1. studentmati
                    studentmati 19 October 2013 00: 32
                    +1
                    Quote: bask
                    But, against the bearded, the very thing.


                    I agree! But we must not forget that the bearded men, the more so they do not stomp on the spot, and keep up with the progress, and even hurry to take a step ahead of it.
              2. bask
                bask 19 October 2013 00: 07
                0
                Quote: Alex 241
                All types of troops need to be integrated into a single information system.

                Sasha, and so they came to the conclusion that the BIOS is the key to success.
                Real-time information transmitted to units will reduce losses in all arms of service at times.
                Panoramic sights commander for Russian tanks

                Without the presence of an integrated, unified information system, they do not fundamentally solve anything.
        3. bask
          bask 18 October 2013 23: 25
          +1
          Quote: studentmati
          batteries. For example, I know where I have a tap to mechanically shut off the supply of water and gas.

          The system must be duplicated.
          And not on one channel. And be sure to leave, visual control.
          For this tower in MBT, it must be inhabited.
          But the helmet display must be connected to a single CIUS, with the supply of digital and video information to the display.

          1. studentmati
            studentmati 18 October 2013 23: 29
            +1
            Quote: bask
            The system must be duplicated.


            That is exactly what I wanted to say.
            1. bask
              bask 18 October 2013 23: 35
              +1
              Quote: studentmati
              That is exactly what I wanted to say.

              I agree.
              But in my opinion, we were very marked.
              The armament of the RA, even the T-90, is not being purchased. Progress cannot be stopped, the robotics and computerization of armored vehicles is on the increase. And not only in the West, but also in China, S. Korea, and Japan.
              1. studentmati
                studentmati 19 October 2013 00: 29
                +1
                Quote: bask
                Progress cannot be stopped, robotics and computerization of armored vehicles are progressing. And not only in the West, but also in China, S. Korea, and Japan.


                The process cannot be stopped in any way, I agree. But we must not forget about the element base. What is the share of Russian electronics in our systems? Extremely minimal. And all the electronics of the adversary are uniquely programmed to self-liquidate, figuratively speaking. 100% testing of their electronics is much more expensive than the efficiency of the systems used.
  • Alexander Kirov
    Alexander Kirov 21 October 2013 00: 24
    0
    Everything rests against the next Serdyukov with a woman in GBTU, in Ukraine in the next election.
  • I think so
    I think so 21 October 2013 22: 13
    0
    The tank shown in the photo is kind of pretentious. There are a bunch of gadgets that even from a simple gun fire will immediately fail and instead of a panoramic view the crew will poke their nose like a blind kitten without seeing anything. Some frivolous developments in the Russian defense industry have gone ... some unfinished unfinished half-finished hastily riveted products ... God forbid a real war, all this tinsel will fly off the combat vehicle like "smoke from white apple trees" ... and what are they going to fight with?