Military Review

The history of the Israeli special forces. Part one

247

No terrorist can feel safe anymore.



A huge amount of material has been written on the topic of Israeli special forces. From quite sane, good articles to complete nonsense. The balance of scales inexorably leans towards delirium. I decided to try to write a review of the main Israeli special forces based solely on authoritative sources and personal information.

Today in Israel you can count dozens of different elite and not very special units. These are police, counter-terrorism, reconnaissance, sabotage, evacuation, engineering and other specialized units of different types of troops, police, border guard service.

Also, almost every infantry or tank the brigade. Plus, a number of narrow-profile units attached to individual military branches or to ministries and departments.

Many of these units are of course classified and information about them is not so much. This partly gives rise to a great multitude of all sorts of myths and speculations often reaching the point of absurdity.

I will describe only a few of the most well-known and illustrious units of the IDF (Israel Defense Forces). But first, a little bit of the section ...

History

The Israel Defense Forces (IDF - from TsVA Ha Agan Le Israel) was founded on May 26. Two weeks after the proclamation of independence and already during the first war of Israel - the “War of Independence”.

In fact, it was the unification of several Zionist paramilitary organizations in the army. The backbone of the new army was composed of the fighters "Agan" (Defense).

Many of the soldiers who arrived in Israel already had combat experience gained during their service in the armies of other countries. These were mainly Jewish soldiers of the British Army, the Polish Army, the Red Army and the fighters of partisan units who fought on the fields of the Second World War.

Also in Israel itself (Mandatory Palestine) there were many young activists of Zionist organizations, some of whom were trained by the British to repel a possible fascist invasion of Palestine.

The first such detachments were the Palmas (Makhats Plugs - Attack Companies). Many of the children born in Mandatory Palestine joined the ranks of Jewish militarized organizations from the age of 13-14. And by 16-ti became full fighters.

The British also prepared Jewish fighters for saboteurs, divers, demolition men. One of the founders of the Jewish special forces can be called Ord Charles Wingate (Wingate).

The history of the Israeli special forces. Part one

Ord Charles Wingate is a British intelligence officer.


This officer, imbued with the idea of ​​Zionism and the creation of the Jewish State, prepared many future fighters for the Israeli special forces at the end of the 30s. Jewish soldiers conducted a series of operations in Lebanon and Syria.

For example, Moshe Dayan performed such special tasks, during one he lost an eye.

Considering that by the year 1943, the situation in British Palestine became tense and turned into a Zionist guerilla war against the British Mandate in some places, and also considering that Jewish settlements needed constant protection and protection from Arab banditry, in general, people with combat experience at the time of formation The state was already quite a lot.

Much more significant problems were associated with a lack of weapons and military equipment.

The first specialized special unit of the IDF is considered to be Yehida 101 (101 Division). This unit was created by 5 August 1953. The initiator of the creation was Colonel Michel Shaham, and the unit commander was Captain Ariel (Arik) Sharon.

Commander-in-Chief Mordechai Macklef agreed with the idea of ​​Shaham and Sharon to create a small, secret, special unit for sabotage and special operations in the rear of the enemy.

Actually, a young student of the Faculty of History Sharon with his friends and a colonel who commanded the Shahs district of Jerusalem had previously “played about” operations in the Arab rear. But it was in August that the 53 division received official status.


Fighters 101 units on the march, pay attention to the weapons - the German MP-40.


At that time, the main AOI submachine gun was the British Stan and his copies produced in Israel. Stan was a capricious and unreliable weapon, so the 101 fighters armed themselves mainly with MP-40 and American Thompsons. Having existed for about five months in total, the division with a total of ~ 50 people nevertheless entered history. 101 conducted a series of effective and daring attacks, and raids were organized on the lairs of terrorists who attacked from neighboring territories controlled by their Arab neighbors.

It was the people of Sharon who became the first division to work in advance, to work hard and uncompromisingly. In addition to Arik Sharon, many very talented, intelligent professionals gathered in this division.

They developed their own doctrines of warfare with Arab terror. These methods, in spite of their effectiveness, subsequently greatly frightened the leadership of the army and the State, since the international community repeatedly condemned the force methods of the Israelis, and problems arose in the form of economic and diplomatic sanctions.

Raid on Kibiya village

In December, 1953 th terrorists infiltrated from Jordan threw a fragmentation grenade into one of the houses in the Yehud settlement. A woman and two small children died, and several people were injured.

The government of Israel responded promptly. The 101 squadron, together with the paratroopers from the 890 battalion, was assigned a combat mission - to enter the village of Kibiya with a battle, destroying the living force, causing maximum damage to the infrastructure, destroying a number of infrastructure buildings and turning the villagers to flight.

At the same time, it is still unclear who changed the softer wording of the order from the General Staff, but Sharon received such a harsher order from the central district.

Fighters of the 101 squad infiltrated Kibiya village on Jordanian territory and captured it in combat. Then 45 homes of the dominant families were blown up.

Kibiya was one of the main bases of the Arab (then they were not yet called Palestinian) terrorists. In addition, a Jordanian fortified point was nearby, which was also defeated. The Arab Legion soldiers stationed there also fled.

As a result, more than 60 people, including women and children, died from the Arab side. They hid in cellars and in attics, waiting for it to end, and were inundated with fragments of blown-up homes.

The members of the assault team denied the premeditated murder of civilians. According to them, there was no time to thoroughly search every house. They found one girl and an old man, who were sent to a nearby village and began to mine houses they thought were empty.

Apparently frightened, some of the residents hid and sat quietly in the cellars, in the attics and upper floors, hoping to wait out the raid. Thousands of people in this village fled without hindrance. The attempts of the Arab counterattacks were repulsed by a covering group.

The order featured two more smaller villages that also needed to be penetrated, but this order was not executed, only diversion maneuvers were conducted there and they started a shootout. Sharon reported on the task, noting about 15 killed enemies.

The UN and the international community have traditionally condemned this raid. What is actually not surprising given the number of civilians killed. As a result, this resulted in political and economic sanctions, the United States refused to sell arms to Israel.

The 101 division was soon formally disbanded, although its entire backbone joined the 890 landing battalion, and in fact Arik Sharon became a battalion commander. In addition to the episode in Kibiye, there were still a number of “punctures” of the unit ending with scandals.

Grades

There are a variety of assessments of the actions of the 101 unit, ranging from the fact that these were the best and most effective methods of dealing with terrorists to the fact that these were fascist methods of punishers.

However, from a technical point of view, these were perfectly planned and completely different operations than those previously carried out by IDF fighters. In the 4 month of their work, the 101 division made a lot of noise and sowed panic among the Arabs.

No terrorist could feel safe anymore. 101 fighters attacked refugee camps, fortified Arab villages, blew up houses, ambushed, captured prisoners, which led to the demoralization of the enemy.

There was no longer a border beyond which it was safe. Terrorists could expect attacks on Egyptian and Jordanian territory, in the camp and on the march. The Israelis were driving Bedouin tribes of robbers across the hot Negev desert, wreaking havoc and panic in their ranks.

They also conducted a grueling 42-kilometer march round trip in a cold and snowy night over the hilly terrain of Hebron in order to undermine the home of one of the main Arab terrorists.

Although in essence, this unit did not conduct anything even remotely resembling the complexity of the British SAS operation, for example. But it was this unit that gave rise to and laid a solid foundation in the formation of the legendary AOI units, which soon showed the whole world how to fight terror.

It was the fighters of this unit who became the progenitors and developers of the concept of bold sabotage attacks to the enemy's rear, which then became an integral part of any Israeli war and military operation.

Several of the most legendary army commanders were raised in the ranks of this unit, and the 890 Battalion, which arose on its basis, who later served to ministers, chiefs of the general staff and the highest posts in the army and the State.

890

In the meantime, the 1954 year began and the 101 division was disbanded. Ariel Sharon became commander of the 890 airborne battalion. More than half of the 101 fighters integrated into the new division.

The part considered that a larger connection with stricter rules is not for them and someone wandered off to where. Nevertheless, Sharon saved the backbone of his people from 101, each of whom deserves a full-fledged separate story.



In the same year, Yitzhak Rabin, then the head of the personnel training department at the General Staff, proposed the creation of his own special forces school. The main goal was to increase the level of physical, tactical and strong-willed training of special forces officers.


Intelligence 890 th landing battalion 1954g. Armament MP-40 and American PP Thompson.


Arik Sharon and his deputy on the 890 Battalion, Aaron Davidi, have developed a detailed selection, training and certification program for the special forces school. The program included three months of intensive grueling training at the base of the airborne troops Tel Nof.

The cadets were mainly IDF officers with good physical training. The program included parachute training, hand-to-hand combat, tactics, sapper and other disciplines.


Fighters for the development of hand-to-hand combat skills. In the corner is an icon about the end of the unarmed combat course.



Ariel Sharon and Aaron Davidi. Israeli PP Uzi on the shoulder of Aaron Davidi. "Black Arrow" was the first combat operation where they used a new Israeli submachine gun. The assault group also used the Bazooka grenade launchers for the first time.


By 1955 year, the situation on the borders of Israel became very tense. Syria, Egypt, Jordan, who were defeated in 1948, still wanted to rehabilitate themselves.

In fact, this was a sluggish war - Arab terrorists still made attacks and forays, people still died. SWAT again carried out actions of retaliation.

Sharon understood that it was not enough to punish individual extremists, that it was necessary to deprive them of the support of neighboring states. Therefore, for the support of terrorists often punished neighboring countries. The peculiarities of the current conflict dictated their conditions for an effective struggle.

Black Arrow 28.02-01.03 1955

In the Gaza Strip (then the territory of Egypt), an operation took place which was caused by a series of murders and attacks in the border area, committed by terrorists penetrating from the Sector. An order was received to conduct a sabotage on the territory of a military base near the city of Gaza.

The purpose of the operation is to disable the water supply system, undermine the railway station, and destroy the infrastructure. The living force of the Egyptian army could be destroyed only if it interfered with the execution of the task.

The command was entrusted to Sharon. The operation involved graduates of special forces courses, as well as younger fighters - graduates of command courses of the landing troops. The operation was carried out, although it was slightly delayed.

Egyptian casualties - 37 killed and 31 injured, losses of paratroopers - 8 killed and 13 injured.

This was the first IDF operation directed strictly against the enemy army. According to the results of the operation, the Egyptians were hastily armed with new Soviet weapons, formally purchased from Czechoslovakia, which ultimately led to the 1956 Sinai campaign, with disastrous results for the Egyptians.

Several special forces officers of the 890 Battalion received the highest army awards for their courage on the battlefield.


Sharon examines trophies after the next retaliation operation. In this operation, 6 Syrians were captured to be exchanged for a soldier abducted at the border, as well as captive paratrooper fighters.


Kinneret 11.12.1955

The official reasons for the operation were the shelling of Israeli fishing vessels and coast guard boats from the Syrian side. More than 20 cases of shooting at fishing boats were recorded in November, including shooting a cannon at a coast guard boat - damage was caused, there were no dead.

However, there is a version that in addition to this reason, which prompted the Israelis to respond, there was another one. The same outlined purchase of weapons by the Egyptians in Czechoslovakia.

The fact is that between Syria and Egypt there existed a military alliance obliging to immediately enter the war. Thus, by attacking Syria, Israel either broke off this alliance, if Egypt did not intervene for an ally, or forced Egypt to enter the war on favorable terms for Israel, since deliveries of Soviet weapons had just begun.

The IDF Command did not like the prospect that Egypt would buy 150 MiG-15 / 17 and then attack Israel. At that time, the IDF Air Force did not have jet planes capable of effectively countering the MiG-15 and, especially, the MiG-17.

In addition to the MiG fighters, Egypt "acquired" the Il-28 bombers, T-34, BTR-120 tanks, self-propelled guns and other weapons.

However, the operation itself consisted in the destruction of the Syrian fortified sites along the east coast of Lake Kinneret. And also, the capture of Syrian officers for the subsequent exchange for four scouts of the Golani infantry brigade captured by the Syrians almost a year ago.

The main strike force of the operation was Sharon’s 890 battalion, and he also commanded the entire operation. Auxiliary units, such as gunners, the coast guard, and a detachment of infantry from the Givati ​​brigade, were provided for support.

Special Forces overnight coped with the operation and took strong points. As a result, almost 60 Syrian soldiers and officers were killed, another 30 were captured. Killed six special forces soldiers and 14 injured. For their heroism on the battlefield, 890 officers were awarded the highest awards by the IDF.


Egyptian trophy weapon, taken as a result of 20 minute assault on an army base in the rear of the enemy in the Sinai Peninsula. Together with the captured weapons, paratroopers carried out 29 of Egyptian soldiers and officers from this operation, some were wounded, so they were literally rendered.



The commander of the General Staff, Moshe Dayan, inspects the trophies of the operation "Egged" - Alpha machine guns (the Egyptian clone of the Spanish machine gun of the same name) based on Tel Nof. Arik Sharon and Meir xAr Zion are accompanied by a commander.



The mounted Machine Guns of the Browning system captured by the 890 battalion fighters in retaliation action. This weapon was seized at the Jordanian police station.


The decision to attack the police station came after an attack by Arab Legion soldiers on the IDF reservist unit during the 10.09.56 exercise. Then the Israeli military 6 died, on the second day fighters of the joint detachment from the 890-th and 88-th landing battalions attacked the Jordanian sector and blew it up.

In this battle, Meir Xar Zion was seriously wounded and the 890 medical officer of the battalion operated him directly in the field while the battle was going on. The bold decision of the doctor saved the life of the commander - a tracheotomy was needed because the bullet pierced his throat and stuck in the back of his head.

In general, the period from 1953 to 1956 passed in a year of sluggish conflict. The Arabs continued to attack the Israelis, the special forces responded with retaliation.

Actions of retribution were much less frequent than the attacks of the Arabs, but in almost every such action the Arabs suffered very tangible losses. The 101 division of Ariel Sharon marked the beginning of the very glorious and rich history of the Israeli special forces.

This moment was key, because it was from that moment that the AOI from the passively defending army turned into an army capable of advancing, inflicting preventive strikes, wreaking havoc and demoralizing the enemy.

Each of these enemies for these couple of years has felt that such actions of retaliation carried out by special forces. The doctrine, traditions, credo of this unit for a few years spread over many other units that began to be created in the army after the success of the 101 and 890 battalion of paratroopers.
Author:
Originator:
http://zbroya.info/uk/blog/38528_istoriia-izrailskogo-spetsnaza-chast-pervaia/
Articles from this series:
The history of the Israeli special forces. Part one
The history of the Israeli special forces. Part two
The history of the Israeli special forces. Part three
The history of the Israeli special forces. Part Four - Flotilla 13
The history of the Israeli special forces. Part Five - YAMAM
247 comments
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  1. Krogan_Urdnot
    Krogan_Urdnot 17 October 2013 09: 48
    +4
    60 years have passed, but the form has not changed)
    1. Volkolak
      Volkolak 17 October 2013 13: 34
      +6
      Quote: Krogan_Urdnot
      60 years have passed, but the form has not changed)

      Not enough edelweiss logo
      Fighters of unit 101 on the march, pay attention to armament - German MP-40. ?? !!!! So who armed and financed?
      1. atalef
        atalef 17 October 2013 13: 40
        -1
        Quote: VOLKOLAK
        Quote: Krogan_Urdnot
        60 years have passed, but the form has not changed)

        Not enough edelweiss logo
        Fighters of unit 101 on the march, pay attention to armament - German MP-40. ?? !!!! So who armed and financed?

        this, or what?

        17 OSN VV MVD RF "Edelweiss"
        17th Special Forces Edelweiss Internal Troops of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia

        Country Russia
        Created: 05.10.1998/XNUMX/XNUMX
        Jurisdiction: North Caucasus Regional Command of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Russian Federation
        Headquarters: pos. Novotersky Mineralovodsky District, Stavropol Territory, Russia
        Preceding
        service: RSN PON 54 DON VV
        Guide
        Head: Colonel Gadzhiev Mikhail Abubakarovich
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. Volkolak
          Volkolak 17 October 2013 13: 46
          +3
          Quote: atalef
          this, or what?

          No, here it is.
          1. il grand casino
            il grand casino 17 October 2013 13: 48
            -1
            And what did you want to show by this? Do you read German?
            1. Volkolak
              Volkolak 17 October 2013 13: 50
              +2
              Quote: il grand casino
              And what did you want to show by this? Do you read German?

              This medal is in honor of this one.
              Baron von Mildenstein, accompanied by one of the leaders of the Berlin Zionists, Kurt Tuchler and his wife, visited several Jewish settlements during his six-month journey through the Holy Land, about which he wrote in a very friendly tone in a series of articles in Angriff under the general title “National Travel Socialist in Palestine. " He praised the achievements of the Zionists and saw in their work a possible solution to the "Jewish question" for Germany. The Baron wrote: "A Jew who cultivates his soil himself becomes a completely new Jew." Goebbels so highly appreciated the writings of the baron that he even ordered a coin to be minted depicting the star of David on one side and the swastika on the other.
            2. Aaron Zawi
              Aaron Zawi 17 October 2013 18: 28
              0
              Quote: il grand casino
              And what did you want to show by this? Do you read German?

              What for? "Chukchi is not a reader, Chukchi is a writer."
          2. crisis
            crisis 17 October 2013 22: 45
            0
            brains clearly under crack
            1. Day 11
              Day 11 17 October 2013 22: 52
              +1
              And what is crack? No, seriously. I heard, don’t know. I heard the hunk, the pentah too. Don’t think that I mean --- no!
        3. The comment was deleted.
        4. The comment was deleted.
        5. roial
          17 October 2013 14: 03
          +3
          Well _________________ laughing
        6. bear
          bear 17 October 2013 23: 00
          +2
          The most interesting thing is that under Stalin the ode to the Dog would not have known the location of the parts, then under the dermocrats the liberals even know by name who is serving in these parts,

          Is it time to end traitors in power?
      2. il grand casino
        il grand casino 17 October 2013 13: 47
        +3
        Well, in general, he armed, including the Soviet Union ...
      3. MAG
        MAG 17 October 2013 17: 11
        +3
        The main thing in weapons is reliability, which was written in the article. And he armed and partially financed the USSR, led by Stalin.
      4. avt
        avt 17 October 2013 18: 58
        +6
        Quote: VOLKOLAK
        ?? !!!! So who armed and financed
        Stalin armed, weapons came from Czechoslovakia in transit through Yugoslavia. Trophy German, the Czechs made messerschmites from the remaining backlog but with the UMO motor, there was no BMW, then when the Czechs received Soviet La fighters, they sent their Spitfires to Israel, many volunteers were recruited in the Soviet army. Then he somehow spat on this topic - the official occasion was the explosion of the USSR Embassy.
      5. atalef
        atalef 17 October 2013 18: 58
        +3
        Quote: VOLKOLAK
        Fighters of unit 101 on the march, pay attention to armament - German MP-40. ?? !!!! So who armed and financed?

        And if such a photo. Shayetet 13 judging by the Kalash, Russia is probably arming
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. atalef
            atalef 17 October 2013 19: 46
            -4
            Quote: Den 11
            Pi ... q argument! I thought you were smarter. Can I post a SAS photo with AKM?

            And it’s contraindicated for you to think, I understand this is cooler
            1. Proud.
              Proud. 17 October 2013 21: 16
              +4
              And you are contraindicated to think However, like you. I understand it coolerThey themselves confirmed. They posted a photo of a not very reasonable individual, and consider this a killer argument?
        2. bear
          bear 17 October 2013 23: 12
          +1
          Kalash is the most reliable weapon, why not
        3. densh
          densh 17 October 2013 23: 45
          0
          Once I saw a story on TV - an Israeli desert patrol armed with "Bison".
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 17 October 2013 23: 49
            0
            You must have mixed something up. Sand and auger shop are things that do not really fit together.
            1. densh
              densh 17 October 2013 23: 53
              0
              Agree, it’s difficult to confuse something, and it was the screw store that caught the eye.
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 17 October 2013 23: 56
                0
                Maybe some grenade launcher?
                1. densh
                  densh 18 October 2013 00: 30
                  0
                  It was Bison. The broadcast was on ORT.
                  1. atalef
                    atalef 18 October 2013 00: 53
                    +2
                    Quote: densh
                    It was Bison. The broadcast was on ORT.

                    there are no bison in the Israeli army, believe me
        4. ruslan207
          ruslan207 18 October 2013 08: 46
          +1
          Kalash may be and the Chinese clones Miluimniks were armed in the 50s with them
      6. patrianostra
        patrianostra 17 October 2013 19: 34
        +2
        Questions to the person with a mustache and a pipe. The trophies of war delivered from Czechoslovakia through Yugoslavia in 1948, in addition to the MP-38/40, were machine guns of various artillery systems and aircraft 109 Meserschmidt had the same vehicles and armor as the main Amerian one, which was supplied by lend-lease. hi
        1. bear
          bear 17 October 2013 23: 22
          -4
          Quote: patrianostra
          Questions to the person with a mustache and a pipe. The trophies of war delivered from Czechoslovakia through Yugoslavia in 1948, in addition to the MP-38/40, were machine guns of various artillery systems and aircraft 109 Meserschmidt had the same vehicles and armor as the main Amerian one, which was supplied by lend-lease. hi


          Along the way, we also pay debts for Lenglis for the Jews, well done well done. They also write articles about gratuitous Lenglis, well, just m ... di !! it turns out.
      7. Turkestan
        Turkestan 17 October 2013 21: 27
        +1
        Who armed? SOVIET UNION. In addition, volunteers are front-line soldiers and trophy weapons. Weapons came from Czechoslovakia.
      8. faraon
        faraon 18 October 2013 00: 47
        +2
        Armed with Russia, through Czechoslovakia, the remaining weapons from the Second World War with captured weapons, the Air Force personnel and Soviet instructors were trained there
        1. smirnov
          smirnov 18 October 2013 02: 38
          +1
          I don’t think that Russia, maybe all the same the USSR?
    2. ruslan207
      ruslan207 18 October 2013 08: 42
      +1
      Yes, it’s time to replace the new thing
  2. alex67
    alex67 17 October 2013 09: 53
    +5
    Thanks to the author for a very interesting article.
    You need to know the story. We look forward to continuing! hi
    1. Dober
      Dober 17 October 2013 14: 16
      +3
      Quote: alex67
      We look forward to continue!

      On the. -
      lib.rus.ec/b/105628
      The Jews do not need to read. Disappointment with "the most super-duper" may follow ...

      I'd rather tell you about other "special operations". Also a branch of the Mossad?
      For 20 years, a group of rabbis has abducted men, forcing them to divorce their wives.
      The main defendants in the case are 68-year-old Rabbi Mendel Epstein and 55-year-old Rabbi Martin Wolmark, all in all, the gang consisted of at least 10 people. Having received money from women interested in divorce, the criminals abducted their husbands, and then, through threats and torture, they beat out their consent to divorce.
      In some cases, Rabbi Epstein hired criminals to kidnap husbands and force them to agree to a divorce. The investigation revealed that the abducted men were handcuffed, and consent to the divorce was obtained through torture, which included the use of stun guns and strangulation with plastic bags on their heads./ what does foshism have to do with it? /
      From the customers, the rabbi took $ 10 thousand for himself and another $ 50 thousand for his accomplices. / Well, this work, do not go as a fitter /In 20 years, they managed to carry out at least 20 abductions. Some defendants have already admitted to participating in the beating of abducted husbands. All ten criminals from the moment of detention are in custody for fear that they will hide if they are released on bail.
      1. Aaron Zawi
        Aaron Zawi 17 October 2013 17: 35
        -4
        Maybe better for Kushchevka? Is it not more painful for you? And by the way, no Jews. hi
        1. bear
          bear 17 October 2013 23: 38
          0
          Your only plus is that in power you have patriots and mostly people who defended their homeland. And not those uncles and aunts that we have, and basically have Jewish names, well, or roots. ? Surrenders in vain Stalin thought that if you have your own state you will lag behind the whole world. How did you ruin him and continue to ruin him.

          Even my famous Jews are talking about it themselves !!!
          1. Aaron Zawi
            Aaron Zawi 18 October 2013 08: 24
            -2
            Quote: bear
            Your only plus is that in power you have patriots and mostly people who defended their homeland. And not those uncles and aunts that we have, and basically have Jewish names, well, or roots. ? Surrenders in vain Stalin thought that if you have your own state you will lag behind the whole world. How did you ruin him and continue to ruin him.

            Even my famous Jews are talking about it themselves !!!

            Do a favor, so who are these people. Name a dozen Jews in the political elite of the Russian Federation. Only evidence please, otherwise some have already written down the GDP in Jews.
      2. faraon
        faraon 18 October 2013 00: 52
        0
        Israel, the same country as other countries, everywhere has its own criminals, maniacs, prostitutes and thieves, so Israel is no exception. And what they did under the guise of religion, on the contrary, aggravates their guilt.
    2. roial
      17 October 2013 14: 25
      +1
      There will still be 4 parts.
  3. xetai9977
    xetai9977 17 October 2013 09: 54
    18
    You can have different attitudes towards Israel, but Israeli special forces and the army have always been at their best. They know how to fight.
    1. Zymran
      Zymran 17 October 2013 10: 07
      10
      I agree. An example of how to protect your homeland.
      1. xetai9977
        xetai9977 17 October 2013 11: 59
        +7
        The Israelis' approach to preserving the lives of every soldier is especially appealing. They don't treat the soldier as "cannon fodder." Well done.
    2. Katsin1
      Katsin1 17 October 2013 10: 14
      +8
      Unlike the Arabs, we cannot lose the war, the Arab soldier knows that in case of defeat his family will not suffer. The Jewish soldier knows that in the event of a defeat from the civilian population, nothing will remain. So we have a different level of motivation.
      1. v.lyamkin
        v.lyamkin 17 October 2013 13: 45
        +6
        That's right, the Israelites have nowhere to go. They cannot afford to lose the war in such an environment.
      2. Puler
        Puler 17 October 2013 17: 19
        +3
        You tell me about motivation to the Amrikos ... on a halt ...
      3. Fofan
        Fofan 17 October 2013 23: 18
        0
        Quote: Katsin1
        an Arab soldier knows that in case of defeat his family will not suffer

        ahaha, and your 500 kilogram bombs are stuffed with chtol chocolate?
  4. svskor80
    svskor80 17 October 2013 11: 20
    +7
    Incidentally, there is a feeling that lately Israel has begun to look more at the so-called "opinion of the world community" hence the not entirely successful army operations of recent years. And so why is an Arab terrorist better than a Caucasian one, with animals it is possible and bestial methods.
    1. Mikhail3
      Mikhail3 17 October 2013 20: 56
      +1
      There is a feeling that in recent years Israel has become significantly more dependent on the views of this community itself. Since it’s almost impossible to go to the Holocaust, the old one has become and the wheels are becoming more and more square. Therefore, classifying a Palestinian as a terrorist is becoming more and more difficult.
      Especially when you are preparing on your territory and with your own hands someone’s troops for the genocide of some kind of population ... In general, you have to look around.
      1. bear
        bear 17 October 2013 23: 52
        +2
        Quote: Mikhail3
        There is a feeling that in recent years Israel has become significantly more dependent on the views of this community itself. Since it’s almost impossible to go to the Holocaust, the old one has become and the wheels are becoming more and more square. Therefore, classifying a Palestinian as a terrorist is becoming more and more difficult.
        Especially when you are preparing on your territory and with your own hands someone’s troops for the genocide of some kind of population ... In general, you have to look around.


        You are minus because you are telling the truth
      2. faraon
        faraon 18 October 2013 01: 03
        0
        You’re not quite right, carefully read the article Arabs as they were in 1948 and have remained, their methods of terror have not changed (stick a knife in the back from around the corner), just the methods of combating Arab terrorism have changed radically. Israeli intelligence and law enforcement agencies are now working advancing. But the beginning was made by unit 101. This is the east, the agreements do not work here, but respect the force.
        In Israel, mercenaries who fight in Syria are not trained, for this there are al-Qaeda camps throughout the Muslim world.
        1. smirnov
          smirnov 18 October 2013 02: 41
          +1
          Neither the Arabs nor your fellow tribesmen have changed since the time of the pogroms ...
  5. APES
    APES 17 October 2013 11: 58
    12
    For what I respect Israel and, in particular, Massad, it is for the fact that the enemies of their people (I emphasize not even the state) will be looking for, "wet" regardless of time, place, or opinion of anything, regardless of the internal, and even more so from the external conjuncture.
    How well I would feel abroad and at home, if I knew that my country would be ready to start a war for the sake of me.
    in addition, I will say that I think at the moment Israel is the most nationalist state on the planet.
    1. Volkolak
      Volkolak 17 October 2013 13: 02
      +5
      Quote: APES
      I believe that at the moment Israel is the most nationalist state on the planet.

      Zionist fascist! So more precisely.
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 17 October 2013 13: 08
        0
        Quote: VOLKOLAK
        Zionist fascist! So more precisely.
        Argue
        1. Volkolak
          Volkolak 17 October 2013 13: 14
          0
          Quote: Pimply
          Argue

          Established in 1942 in Palestine under the leadership of Yair (Stern), the Jewish terrorist organization LEHI (Lohamey Herut Israel - Fighters for the Freedom of Israel) turned to the Nazis with a proposal to assist the German army in expelling the British from Palestine.
          A Polish journalist, Julius Yanishevsky, repeatedly wrote about the terrorist nature of the state of Israel and its umbilical connection with fascism. "All over the world, people believe that the word" terrorism "is primarily associated with Muslims (...) But in fact, the first terrorism in the Middle East was Jewish terrorism related to the struggle of Jews to create their own state in Palestine." Yanishevsky classifies the typical methods of Zionist crimes: bombing, abduction, executions and assassinations, taking hostages, threats and blackmail, and adds that this is just a fraction of the countless methods of Zionist terrorists. Yanishevsky lists all the main Zionist groups: LEKHI (the Stern-Begin-Shamir gang), "Irgun" Begin, Ha-Gan and Palmach, and others, and calls them terrorist organizations. The most bloody terrorist act was committed by Ha-Ghana bandits in the Holy Land, blowing up the King David Hotel (Jerusalem, 1946). The explosion killed not only the British, but also the Arabs and Jews.

          The terrorist nature of the “Jewish state” is adequately reflected in Victor OSTROVSKY’s book, By Way of Deception, which is banned on the territory of North America today. The author of the book, a senior Mossad officer, fled to Canada, where he wrote, together with Claire Hoy, his two books. Ostrovsky writes that the Mossad invariably attracts terrorist methods, including bombing in Israeli-friendly countries.
          1. roial
            17 October 2013 13: 17
            +2
            Tooth by tooth, eye by eye. I would like my state to live by this principle.
            1. APES
              APES 17 October 2013 13: 49
              0
              but I want to be a citizen of another kingdom, it’s not possible there
          2. Dober
            Dober 17 October 2013 14: 44
            +2
            There will be a whole shelf of such books (at least). Interestingly, almost all of the authors are Jewish. Here and
            Eye for an Eye: The Untold Story of Jewish Vengeance on the Germans in 1945 (Eye For An Eye - The Story of Jews Who Sought Revenge For the Holocaust), Jewish writer John Sack provides a fully documented answer to this question.
            He writes that at the end of World War II, thousands of Jews longed for revenge for the Holocaust, as a result of which many of them were endowed with extraordinary powers to create and settle the concentration camps with German victims. Sak found that Jews captured at least 200.000 Germans and placed them on their own in concentration camps. A total of 1255 such concentration camps were ruled by Jewish commandants. German men, women, children and even infants were starved there, beaten, tormented, tortured, brutally tortured and killed by the Jewish administration and Jewish guards with impunity and uncontrolled.

            In Britain, the book of Jonathan Friedland (under the pseudonym Sam Bori) "The Final Settlement" was published. The novel, based on real events, tells the story of an underground Jewish gang that planned after the war massacres of Nazis and sabotage against civilians in major cities in Germany.
            Vengeful and cruel Jews could not forgive those who guarded them in the ghetto or served on the towers in the camps. About 3,5 million Germans were arrested in Germany, more than a million of whom received various punishments: from fines and confiscation of property to death sentences. “It would be simply impossible to execute everyone, it would drag on for decades,” says Jew David Cesarani, a professor at the University of London, a Holocaust propagandist.

            “The Avengers” by Richard Cohen, whose family knew the leaders of the Jewish gang, the book of Former In Fury, a former correspondent of the Air Force in Jerusalem, Michael Elkins, first published in 1971, and the memoirs of one of the members of Nokmim, Joseph Garmatz, “From The Wings” who saw the light about ten years ago. Despite the differences in detail, they are all united in the main. As Garmatz wrote, The Avengers was a strictly classified paramilitary structure that calculated the Nazis who quietly returned to civilian life, and then kidnapped and destroyed them.
            One of the chapters of the book describes a post-war concentration camp for Germans suspected of having links with the Nazis in Poland, in Svetochlowice, near Katowice. The concentration camp operated from spring to the end of 1945. It was not the Nazis who became its prisoners, but simply ethnic Germans, people whose ancestors had lived for centuries in Silesia, West Prussia and Pomerania, in the lands that were ceded to Poland after the Second World War. A total of seven million people of German origin, "ethnic Germans", were expelled by the Polish authorities. The expulsion was carried out in cattle cars, as not long before - the expulsion of Chechens, Crimean Tatars and other small peoples. According to the author of the book, out of seven million Germans, two million people died - a huge figure, a colossal tragedy.
            Etc. Is this not the origin of the "colossal" experience?
            1. Katsin1
              Katsin1 17 October 2013 16: 40
              +2
              Ai yai, what bloodthirsty Jews had the audacity to execute, and even without the trial of SS executioners ... They were completely insolent ... Here are some more photos of the bad Americans who shoot the guards of the Dachau concentration camp without trial or investigation (scary to think). By the way, one of my favorite photos, because on it images are the triumph of justice ...
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. Aaron Zawi
                  Aaron Zawi 17 October 2013 17: 41
                  +2
                  Quote: Dober
                  Is this your favorite patch? From the grandfather remained. Not thrown yet? Thinking about getting dressed soon?

                  Well, and you probably have the "Lokotovskaya brigade" stripes hanging over the bed? laughing
                  1. Dober
                    Dober 17 October 2013 17: 53
                    +5
                    Wait, or rather bring, not only over the bed, but also sew on the sleeve. In the meantime, this is -
                    1. Aaron Zawi
                      Aaron Zawi 17 October 2013 18: 12
                      0
                      Quote: Dober
                      Wait, or rather bring, not only over the bed, but also sew on the sleeve. In the meantime, this is -

                      And that I like it. As for the "Lokotov" stripe, let those Jews who still live in Russia be afraid of it. Because if you come to us with a "Lokotov" patch, you will not return home. hi
                      1. Day 11
                        Day 11 17 October 2013 18: 21
                        +1
                        Actually, not with Lokotovskaya, but with Lokotskaya!
                      2. Lech from our city
                        Lech from our city 17 October 2013 19: 45
                        +2
                        DAHAU also, this time former prisoners are settling scores with the guards.
                      3. Revolver
                        Revolver 18 October 2013 02: 00
                        +1
                        Quote: Lech from our city
                        DAHAU also, this time former prisoners are settling scores with the guards.
                        It is repaid to everyone according to his deeds.
                  2. bear
                    bear 18 October 2013 00: 29
                    -2
                    The Slavs are not Nazis and not fascists, so do not worry, we won’t come to you until you ask for our bad deeds, but if we do, then we prayerfully pray near the wailing wall to our HORNED ANCESTORS so that your people will never engage in fascism!
                2. Dezzed
                  Dezzed 17 October 2013 19: 38
                  0
                  very nice! did you work with a cross?
              2. Lech from our city
                Lech from our city 17 October 2013 19: 43
                0
                SO that cruelty was on both sides nobility here and doesn’t smell close - murder is murder.
            2. Volkolak
              Volkolak 17 October 2013 18: 17
              +3
              Quote: Dober
              I will repeat the order of "Volkolak" -Stop FOOTWEARING, cowardly .....!

              They not only shit in PM, they complained, and all my posts, proving the cooperation of the Zionists with the Nazis were deleted! THE TRUTH BASES THEIR FALSE EYES!
            3. Lech from our city
              Lech from our city 17 October 2013 19: 41
              0
              Continued in DAHAU
          3. Day 11
            Day 11 17 October 2013 17: 09
            +3
            And what has your nation occupied all our natural wealth? You say this is not yours but the Nenets, Chukchi (no offense for these people), Mari, Komi, etc.? Yes, this is THEIR wealth and we are friends and guests in their lands. We NEVER had any friction with them. You (your nation) grabbed their wealth like a tick - until everything is sucked up - fall off. Am I wrong? Can't they live on their own (even without Russia)? The Soviet state taught all the nations ! There will be smart people there too!
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. Day 11
                Day 11 17 October 2013 18: 16
                0
                Ready to subscribe! That's right
              2. Aaron Zawi
                Aaron Zawi 17 October 2013 18: 44
                -1
                So what ? I also have (3) present. Not scary.
                1. Dober
                  Dober 17 October 2013 18: 52
                  +1
                  I'm talking about Katsin "1".
                  Also not scary. And to come to Israel all the more. Most likely next year there will be a question about the sale of an apartment. After the New Year I will prepare documents. In this regard, the question. Are there real estate lawyers in those parts of the world? Are there any honest ones?
                  1. Aaron Zawi
                    Aaron Zawi 17 October 2013 19: 00
                    0
                    Quote: Dober
                    I'm talking about Katsin "1".
                    Also not scary. And to come to Israel all the more. Most likely next year there will be a question about the sale of an apartment. After the New Year I will prepare documents. In this regard, the question. Are there real estate lawyers in those parts of the world? Are there any honest ones?

                    Russian-speaking lawyers wagon and small trolley. Have a good sale and I hope this will be your last visit to the State of Israel.
            2. Day 11
              Day 11 17 October 2013 18: 29
              +2
              Don’t force your comrades from Israel (and those from this people) to become rude! Do you have something to answer? Only quietly minusanut.You are not stupid, try to enter into a civilized dispute with the RUSSIAN (and other close to us) peoples (though -by on this forum)
              1. Dezzed
                Dezzed 17 October 2013 19: 41
                -1
                why "on the sly"? here is open to you "-"
                1. Day 11
                  Day 11 17 October 2013 19: 47
                  +1
                  See, but they won't let me put you "-". Is there truth on earth? Or just yours?
            3. Dezzed
              Dezzed 17 October 2013 19: 40
              +2
              all. raced!
            4. Lech from our city
              Lech from our city 17 October 2013 19: 48
              0
              Continuation of the story with DAHAU.
              In general, if you dig in other similar cases, I’ll tell you all this doesn’t look very cinema-like (disgusting)
              1. Pimply
                Pimply 17 October 2013 20: 15
                +1
                Yes. Life is not a movie at all. For the majority, for some reason, this is precisely the view of her
          4. Lech from our city
            Lech from our city 17 October 2013 19: 40
            0
            You showed only ONE photograph of actually the Germans. In DAKHAU, they were killed in different places, DAKHAU prisoners also took part in the killings.
        2. Aaron Zawi
          Aaron Zawi 17 October 2013 17: 38
          0
          Quote: Dober

          One of the chapters of the book describes a post-war concentration camp for Germans suspected of having links with the Nazis in Poland, in Svetochlowice, near Katowice. The concentration camp operated from spring to the end of 1945. It was not the Nazis who became its prisoners, but simply ethnic Germans, people whose ancestors had lived for centuries in Silesia, West Prussia and Pomerania, in the lands that were ceded to Poland after the Second World War. A total of seven million people of German origin, "ethnic Germans", were expelled by the Polish authorities. The expulsion was carried out in cattle cars, as not long before - the expulsion of Chechens, Crimean Tatars and other small peoples. According to the author of the book, out of seven million Germans, two million people died - a huge figure, a colossal tragedy.
          Etc. Is this not the origin of the "colossal" experience?

          I didn’t understand. Did the Jews do that too? As far as I know, in Poland 1945 there are practically no Jews left.
          1. Dober
            Dober 17 October 2013 18: 08
            +1
            Quote: Aron Zaavi
            Poland in 1945, there were practically no Jews left.

            And so we smoothly approached the "fun math". About six mulion. Shall we continue?
            And to warm up the problem:
            Before the war, 200.000 Jews lived in Kiev. With the beginning of the invasion, 150.000 were evacuated from Kiev (documented), and 150.000 passed / mobilized through the Kiev region (to the Tashkent Front).
            Question: How many Jews remained at the end of the summer in Kiev?
            Correct answer: More than 250.000. And they all voluntarily gathered and fit in a small area in 2 hours.
            Then the compactos were placed (not on BV) in the gully ...
            Continue orichmetic?
            1. Ruslan_F38
              Ruslan_F38 17 October 2013 18: 19
              0
              Quote: Dober
              And so we smoothly approached the "fun math". About six mulion. Shall we continue?

              hi I greet you. Maybe it’s not worth it, otherwise I don’t have any pluses for you - it's over.
              1. The comment was deleted.
              2. The comment was deleted.
                1. Ruslan_F38
                  Ruslan_F38 17 October 2013 18: 35
                  +3
                  Quote: VOLKOLAK
                  But the Jews ran out of arguments, stupidly scribble complaints to the moderators. lol

                  Normally. The arguments end - they turn to the person, nothing surprising - the essence is this. hi
                  1. Pimply
                    Pimply 17 October 2013 19: 22
                    +1
                    You go on. There at one time there were a lot of guys waving the same Nazi flags. I wonder where they are? In my memory, is already being replaced by the fifth generation of such on the site. 8)
                  2. atalef
                    atalef 17 October 2013 19: 34
                    +3
                    Quote: Pimply
                    In my memory, is already being replaced by the fifth generation of such on the site. 8)

                    Zhenya, they are reincarnating, such a bunch of ou , who could not say anything worthwhile, except for the endless barking towards the Jews, the best thing is simply not to notice them. because you cannot prove anything equally, it’s better to give them calmly the opportunity to boast of knowledge of Shulhan Aruch before each other. Talmud, Torah, the history of Israel, etc. Who cares . that they don’t know the words in Hebrew, the main thing is their eternal confidence in their rightness. Do not disappoint them. no matter what the children amuse, just not with their hands.
                  3. Pimply
                    Pimply 17 October 2013 20: 16
                    +2
                    Quote: atalef
                    Zhenya, they are reincarnating, such a bunch of ou , who could not say anything worthwhile, except for the endless barking towards the Jews, the best thing is simply not to notice them. because you cannot prove anything equally, it’s better to give them calmly the opportunity to boast of knowledge of Shulhan Aruch before each other. Talmud, Torah, the history of Israel, etc. Who cares . that they don’t know the words in Hebrew, the main thing is their eternal confidence in their rightness. Do not disappoint them. no matter what the children amuse, just not with their hands.


                    Yes, let it be. If impurities are not tolerated, they will stink in the whole house. Did you hear about the theory of "broken windows"?
                  4. Beck
                    Beck 17 October 2013 22: 17
                    +2
                    YES?

                    Wow. I did not expect to read objective material about Israel, especially about the Jewish special forces. PLUS to admins.

                    And on the topic. In all respects, no other special forces of any country in the world can be compared with the Israeli special forces. And this is all an experience. Jewish special forces for 65 years in constant operation.

                    And, the constantly condemned actions of the Jewish special forces, to punish and capture precisely the TERRORISTS, in the territories of other countries began to acquire this or that legitimacy. An example of this is the recent actions of American special forces in Africa. Now the public will be sympathetic to the fact that if the Russian special forces pulled out some kind of ... terrorist who blew up a school and was hiding in a country which, for one reason or another, could not extradite such a criminal.
            2. Pimply
              Pimply 17 October 2013 19: 20
              +2
              Quote: VOLKOLAK
              But the Jews ran out of arguments, stupidly scribble complaints to the moderators.

              What could be the arguments for trolling and violating the rules of the site? Only the mind. Here, in my mind, I think it will be easier if you are simply banned. Well, if this does not bring you peace of mind, then the court, since most of your comments in this thread fall under the corresponding article of the Criminal Code. And it says the following.

              Actions aimed at inciting hatred or enmity, as well as humiliating the dignity of a person or a group of people on the grounds of sex, race, nationality, language, origin, religion, as well as belonging to any social group, committed publicly or with the use of the media shall be punishable by a fine in the amount of one hundred thousand to three hundred thousand rubles, or in the amount of the wage or other income of the convicted person for a period of one year to two years, or by deprivation of the right to hold certain bit or engage in certain activities for up to three years, or by compulsory works for a term of up to one hundred eighty hours, or correctional labor for up to one year, or imprisonment for up to two years.

              I think this year will be useful for you.
              1. crisis
                crisis 17 October 2013 23: 14
                -2
                found how to scare them. I am not a fan of the Caucasian peoples, but I dream that galutny Jews become a bit like Chechens and can respond to all cattle with no threats of judgment. Hot-headed slaughter with Jews should remember 300 ethnic Slavs living in Israel and understand that they will become legitimate targets and Middle Eastern people oh what are not peaceful
              2. Revolver
                Revolver 18 October 2013 02: 13
                +1
                Quote: crisis
                found how to scare them. I am not a fan of the Caucasian peoples, but I dream that galutny Jews become a bit like Chechens and can respond to all cattle with no threats of judgment. Hot-headed slaughter with Jews should remember 300 ethnic Slavs living in Israel and understand that they will become legitimate targets and Middle Eastern people oh what are not peaceful

                Do not be like cattle. Do not be humbled. And by the way, before posting, run your text through some editor, otherwise the error is an error.
            3. ruslan207
              ruslan207 18 October 2013 08: 55
              0
              Pupyrych let this VOLKOLAK do his homework, otherwise you know, an adult sat down at a batin comp an adult will not write such nonsense
      2. Aaron Zawi
        Aaron Zawi 17 October 2013 18: 39
        0
        Quote: Dober

        Continue orichmetic?

        and what to continue. True, not 250 thousand, but 45, but this is beside the point. You (I don’t speak to you with the Natsik, and you are definitely one of the "blinking") even entertain me.
        1. Volkolak
          Volkolak 17 October 2013 18: 50
          +1
          Quote: Aron Zaavi
          You (I don’t speak to you with the Nazis, and you are definitely one of the "blinking") even entertain me.

          For a long time, the Nazi press put on their covers a photograph of a blue-eyed blonde in a helmet. Under the picture it read: “An ideal German soldier.” This Aryan ideal was the Wehrmacht fighter Werner Goldberg (with a Jewish pope). hi
          1. Aaron Zawi
            Aaron Zawi 17 October 2013 19: 07
            +1
            Quote: VOLKOLAK

            For a long time, the Nazi press put on their covers a photograph of a blue-eyed blonde in a helmet. Under the picture it read: “An ideal German soldier.” This Aryan ideal was the Wehrmacht fighter Werner Goldberg (with a Jewish pope). hi

            In the 1940 year, shortly after the armistice with France, Werner Goldberg was dismissed from military service according to Hitler's order of April 8 1940 of the year in which he forbade military service to the Mishlings. True, due to the fact that his mother was German, he managed to avoid deportation to the camp.
        2. Dober
          Dober 17 October 2013 19: 03
          +3
          No, not one of the "blinking" ones. I don't give a damn about these Dolbo. Yes, and I have no time to ziggle - there are plenty of more interesting things to do. So I went home, I'll play with the dog.
          He would have taught him to raise his paw, but it does not rise above the horizontal. The structure of the joints is. And so it can
          1. Aaron Zawi
            Aaron Zawi 17 October 2013 19: 10
            -4
            The dog is good.
      3. In the reeds
        In the reeds 17 October 2013 22: 54
        -2
        Yes, your nut-tag has long been marking not only under nuts ...
  • Ingvar 72
    Ingvar 72 17 October 2013 14: 31
    +1
    Quote: Pimply
    Argue

    Shulchan Aruch read. Your holy book, or better to say the code of life of a Jew. Or do you hope that on this site all the Goi are poorly educated?
    1. Aaron Zawi
      Aaron Zawi 17 October 2013 18: 24
      -2
      Quote: Ingvar 72

      Shulchan Aruch read. Your holy book, or better to say the code of life of a Jew. Or do you hope that on this site all the Goi are poorly educated?

      And what do I understand from there?
      Shulchan Aruch (Hebrew שֻׁלְחָן עָרוּךְ, literally “laid table”; cf. Ezek. 23:41) is a code of practical provisions of the Oral Law, compiled in the XNUMXth century by Yosef Karo, which summed up the codification activity of halachic authorities of many generations. Shulchan Aruch is the main guide for extracting practical halakha, recognized by all, without exception, directions of Judaism that recognize the Oral Law. It has been used and studied by Jews around the world for several centuries.

      This book can seriously comment on people studying it for many years. I'm not saying that the author made practical recommendations based on the reality surrounding him.
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 17 October 2013 19: 06
        +4
        Quote: Aron Zaavi
        I'm not saying that the author made practical recommendations based on the reality surrounding him.

        And what reality allows other peoples to be called cattle? Or “It is not necessary to return the found thing lost by the goy” - What kind of reality are you talking about?
        1. Aaron Zawi
          Aaron Zawi 17 October 2013 19: 18
          -2
          Quote: Ingvar 72

          And what reality allows other peoples to be called cattle? Or “It is not necessary to return the found thing lost by the goy” - What kind of reality are you talking about?

          Well, probably, if other peoples have been entertaining the Inquisition and pogroms over his people for a long time, then the author simply did not have the opportunity to respond by force. But in general.
          There are texts bearing the names "Shulchan Aruch" or "100 laws of the Shulchan Aruch", etc. The text is usually a collection of 100 laws, presented as laws from the Shulchan Aruch, which emphasize the extremely hostile and dismissive attitude of the Jews towards non-Jews. year V.S.Soloviev, in his work "The Talmud and the latest polemic literature about it in Austria and Germany" wrote that a significant part of these laws are "incorrect and incongruous", that the author "composed each law from several passages, sometimes taken from different works of unequal dignity and authority" and "for the most part, these passages are placed by Justus in a completely arbitrary connection with each other, the texts are mixed with commentaries, the generally binding legalizations - with the private opinions of the rabbis."
          The source of these texts is the book Der Judenspiegel (The Jewish Mirror), published in Germany by Aron Brimann (German) Russian. in 1883 on behalf of the fictional Dr. Justus. Brimann - a Romanian Jew by birth who converted to Protestantism and then Catholicism. Incidentally, he supplied translations of the Hebrew texts of the German theologian Augustus Rolling. Having settled in Vienna, he soon appeared before the court for forgery, was sentenced to two months in prison, followed by expulsion from Austria, after which his trace was lost.
          1. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 17 October 2013 19: 33
            +4
            Quote: Aron Zaavi
            V. S. Soloviev, in his work “The Talmud and the latest polemical literature about him in Austria and Germany,” wrote that a significant part of these laws is “incorrect and inconsistent,” that the author “composed each law from several passages, sometimes taken from different works of unequal dignity and authority ”and“ for the most part, these passages were put by Justus into a completely arbitrary connection between themselves, the texts are mixed with commentaries, universally binding legalizations - with the private opinions of the rabbis. ”

            Tell these tales to the adherents of the Chabad society.
            1. Pimply
              Pimply 17 October 2013 20: 17
              +1
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              Tell these tales to the adherents of the Chabad society.

              You violate the rules of the site and the Criminal Code.
              1. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 17 October 2013 22: 06
                0
                Quote: Pimply
                You violate the rules of the site and the Criminal Code.

                Let me clarify exactly which rules and which laws of the Russian Federation I violated by mentioning the Chabad society?
          2. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 17 October 2013 19: 36
            +2
            Quote: Aron Zaavi
            Well, probably, if other peoples have been entertaining the Inquisition and pogroms over their people for a long time, then they are not able to respond by force

            And what power method do you mean? By the type of Persian massacre called the holiday of purim?
            1. Aaron Zawi
              Aaron Zawi 17 October 2013 19: 48
              -1
              Quote: Ingvar 72

              And what power method do you mean? By the type of Persian massacre called the holiday of purim?
              I don’t understand. You don’t like the actions of "Jewish self-defense" in the territory of the Persian Empire? So let me remind you that the actions of the Jews were approved by the Emperor Ahasuerus. For the Jews were his subjects and there is nothing for any declared elements to engage in pogroms.
              1. Ruslan_F38
                Ruslan_F38 17 October 2013 20: 32
                +2
                Quote: Aaron Zawi
                Quote: Ingvar 72

                And what power method do you mean? By the type of Persian massacre called the holiday of purim?
                I don’t understand. You don’t like the actions of "Jewish self-defense" in the territory of the Persian Empire? So let me remind you that the actions of the Jews were approved by the Emperor Ahasuerus. For the Jews were his subjects and there is nothing for any declared elements to engage in pogroms.


                Speak pogroms?
                I can not say that the morals of both the Persians and the Jews are not typical for the era. Even disgusting cruelty with which entire families are exterminated is usual, with pleasure noting: they say that they also slaughtered the children of their enemies! After all, in the eyes of the king of Tsidkia his sons were killed - for edification and fear of everyone else.
                So the story, of course, is vile in all its details, but the whole society of the Ancient East was just as wild, cruel, bloodthirsty, immoral.
                The difference between the massacre when the Jews killed the Persians and the other massacres is not, of course, that everyone can, but the Jews in no case can. The difference is that this whole story in modern man can not cause anything but disgust ...
                If it causes pride in the ancestors, this is already incomprehensible.

                Not a single civilized nation would ever think of CELEBRATING this event, making it a part of its culture and cultural tradition. But the Jews - it has come!
                Because it was in honor of such a glorious, highly heroic event, as a pogrom and massacre, bought by one place of the harem woman Esther from King Artaxerxes, the Purim holiday was established on the 14th day of the month of Adar (a month before Easter).
                On this day in the synagogues the bible book “Esther” is read, among other things, with these very lines that I quoted. So to speak, as a warning to posterity.
                And parishioners should participate in the ritual murder of Aman! Apparently, in the ritual murder of his children? There is no answer to the last question, but parishioners must appear in the synagogue with clappers, balls, rattles and even with pistols that are loaded with blank cartridges.
                At the mention of the name of Haman, all Jews should shout loudly: “Beat Haman !!!” - and create as much noise as possible. Scorch into the air, clap clappers, beat in bowls and, most importantly, scream loudly, demanding the blood of the enemy of the Jewish people, Haman.
                - A. Burovsky Jewish pogroms, grief according to double standards.
              2. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 17 October 2013 22: 20
                0
                Quote: Aron Zaavi
                that the actions of the Jews were approved by the emperor Ahasuerus

                Oh yes, under the influence of Esther. In the Russian language there is a good proverb - Night cuckoo have a bite to eat. It’s good to follow the orthodox lead, there are a lot of sane people among you. These stereotypes have been imposed on you, like fairy tales about the independence of Ukrainians. Judging by your comments, you are not a stupid person, but it is worth touching the topic of Jewish nationalism, behaving like a child whose mother was told obscenity. I understand. that we don’t choose mothers, but we are no longer children, we can admit some facts from the biography. hi
          3. Beck
            Beck 18 October 2013 00: 26
            +2
            Quote: Aron Zaavi
            Well, probably, if other peoples have been entertaining the Inquisition and pogroms over his people for a long time, then the author simply did not have the opportunity to respond by force.


            GENERALLY. How can words be transferred from ancient religious books to the mentality of a nation. These words are perhaps something important only to fanatics.

            Now is not the Middle Ages, when there was universal religiosity. Now more than half of the world is not believers. Those who just get married in the church and eat muffin for Easter are also not believers, only pay tribute to tradition. And how to transfer the subjective writings of religious tracts written on them when the World was dark from prejudice.

            Negative places in the Talmud are lurking here. So in the Gospel and the Qur'an abound.

            Gospel.

            - Do not think that I have come to bring PEACE to the earth; not the world I came to bring, but the SWORD.
            Chapter 10, verse 34. From Matthew.

            - Do you think that I have come to give PEACE to the earth? No, I tell you, but separation.
            Chapter 12, verse 51. From Luke.

            - For I came to divide a man with his father, and a daughter with her mother, and a daughter-in-law with her mother-in-law
            Chapter 10, verse 35. From Matthew.

            - If someone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, and his wife and children, and brothers and sisters, and, moreover, his very life, he cannot be My disciple.
            Chapter 14, verse 26. From Luke.

            “And the enemies of man are his household.”
            Chapter 10, verse 36. From Matthew.

            Koran.

            Sura 77. Ayat 16.
            Really (for this evil) We did not ruin
            The peoples of many past years?

            Ayat 17.
            After them
            We will send the next generation.

            SURAH 9. Ayat 29.

            Fight those
            Who does not believe in Allah
            and last day
            And doesn’t consider it forbidden
            What is forbidden by Allah
            and his messenger
            And with those of the people of Scripture (Holy), *
            Who does not recognize the truths of religion (Allah),
            (Fight them) as long
            Until they pay you tribute
            With his own hand, in humility submissive.

            WELL, AND WHAT? THAT WE WILL ATTRIBUTE THESE UNPLEASANT POSTLATES AS A GUIDE TO ACTION, PEOPLES OF EUROPE AND PEOPLES OF ASIA indiscriminately.

            Stupid.
        2. Pimply
          Pimply 17 October 2013 19: 25
          0
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          And what reality allows other peoples to be called cattle? Or “It is not necessary to return the found thing lost by the goy” - What kind of reality are you talking about?

          Read the Russian law of that time. Well, or European. There will be many surprises, believe me.
          Also, just for fun, have you ever read the Shulchan Aruch in the original to make such bold statements?
  • bear
    bear 18 October 2013 00: 15
    -2
    By the fact that your state is fascists, there is nothing to argue here.

    Enough to watch the news regularly
  • faraon
    faraon 18 October 2013 01: 09
    0
    No need to label, nationalism, and all sorts of Russian chauvinism in this case will not be different from Zionafascism. Russia is at war with migrants who occupied everything from the police to work in the housing and communal services.
    Israel is fighting terror - these are two different things.
  • Pimply
    Pimply 17 October 2013 13: 08
    -1
    Quote: APES
    in addition, I will say that I think at the moment Israel is the most nationalist state on the planet.
    Argue
    1. APES
      APES 17 October 2013 13: 50
      +5
      What for? If you want to prove the opposite - you argue.
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 17 October 2013 18: 16
        -3
        Quote: APES
        What for? If you want to prove the opposite - you argue.

        And then prove you're not a camel? (c) Do not tell.

        You have advanced the thesis. Right? Some statement. Do you think so. Well, it’s normal to count. Just give arguments, please. Justify your position. After all, you can say a lot of things - you must be able to stand up for your words.
        1. Ruslan_F38
          Ruslan_F38 17 October 2013 18: 44
          +2
          The Israeli intelligence service has collaborated with Nazi criminals since the late 1940s, and at least until the mid-1970s. The then Mossad workers still refuse to speak on this subject. Facts of cooperation between Israeli intelligence and former senior SS officers have been publicized in recent years. First of all, this happened due to the fact that in 1998-99 the Senate and the US Congress obliged the CIA to declassify documents relating to the ties of the American special services with former Nazis. In the early 2000s, Langley transferred relevant materials to the National Archive, with a total volume of about 250.000 pages.

          These documents indicate that Israeli intelligence officers, like their American counterparts, not only worked closely with Nazi criminals, but also sheltered them from persecution. And while US intelligence agencies sought to use the knowledge and intelligence of the Nazis in confrontation with the USSR, the Mossad was interested in their connections in the Arab countries.
          On the basis of materials declassified by the CIA, the press of the United States and Israel published three specific cases of cooperation between the intelligence of the Jewish state and former SS men. Moreover, the documents on one of them clearly state that this is far from the only case of this kind. Only one of the former employees of Asher Ben-Nathan agreed to give us “no more than five minutes,” and then at the request of an Israeli historian who helped in the preparation of this material, and only on condition of anonymity.

          To the question of why people who are over seventy years old today, and some already under ninety, flatly refuse to talk about the events of half a century ago, our interlocutor perplexedly answered: “And what do you want us to stipulate ourselves, to tarnish the memory of to yourself and your comrades, the business you served ?! ” And then he explained: “The time was not easy, that during the world war, that after. Now it’s easy to judge this ... Besides, we followed orders. And no one will tell you anything. And you expected me to start talking about the ties of the Yishuv leadership with the Nazis during the war, or how they were recruited in batches afterwards; as selection was made during the illegal export of Jews to Mandatory Palestine, on the basis of ideological affiliation, and they tried not to take revisionists; or how, after the war, fearing to ruin relations with Europe, they put sticks in the wheels of former partisans and resistance members in the ghetto who wanted to take revenge on the Germans ... No one will give you any facts, especially on your own behalf. We all remember well, but we will take our secrets with us to the grave ... ”

          http://www.aktualii.org/content/political/73
          1. Aaron Zawi
            Aaron Zawi 17 October 2013 18: 51
            0
            You would have agreed with Doberman something to blame the Jews. He accuses the Nazis of judicial reprisals (I would still feel sorry for like-minded people), and you that the Israeli secret services prevented the killing of the Nazis. What a disharmony in your orchestra.
            1. Dober
              Dober 17 October 2013 19: 09
              0
              Stupid, you are Aron. I'm not talking about the Nazis. but about the GERMANS. Well, you don’t understand. For you there is no nation but your beloved.
              1. Aaron Zawi
                Aaron Zawi 17 October 2013 19: 35
                +2
                Stupid so stupid. I need to be offended by the words of a person living 3000 km away from me? It will be too "virtual reality". The main thing is not to stop fighting the Zionists, otherwise I will be bored.
            2. The comment was deleted.
              1. Pimply
                Pimply 17 October 2013 19: 28
                +3
                Quote: Ruslan_F38
                Why should we agree? He himself is beautiful, and without me and anyone, you made.

                Correctly. There is no need to agree on hatred and xenophobia. There will always be arguments why to hate, and saliva to spray. Bravo. Hitler would be proud of you. You clearly go his way.
          2. Pimply
            Pimply 17 October 2013 19: 27
            +1
            You cite as an example an article without links to authoritative sources, from an incomprehensible site, while I do not see my own arguments. Interestingly, does such a quotation violate the rules of the site? Something tells me that not even under one article. 8)
            1. Ruslan_F38
              Ruslan_F38 17 October 2013 20: 11
              +4
              Quote: Pimply
              You cite as an example an article without links to authoritative sources, from an incomprehensible site, while I do not see my own arguments. Interestingly, does such a quotation violate the rules of the site? Something tells me that not even under one article. 8)

              I bring from the site, there is a link, the authority of the source is not for you to determine what else do you need? And you know that, it’s not for you to give me estimates, because apart from your inferences supported by no argument, unfounded accusations and insults, I haven’t heard anything from you and your kind, however, as always.
              I wonder if such absolutely undeserved insults and accusations fall into: xenophobia, fascism, following Hitler’s Nazi ideology, etc. in violation of the rules of the site? Something tells me that not even under one article. You insult me ​​personally without any reason:
              Correctly. There is no need to agree on hatred and xenophobia. There will always be arguments why to hate, and saliva to spray. Bravo. Hitler would be proud of you. You clearly go his way.
              - I quote you dear, you. Do not you find quite serious charges? Sorry would be better.
              1. Pimply
                Pimply 17 October 2013 20: 21
                +1
                Quote: Ruslan_F38
                I bring from the site, there is a link, what else do you need, but where are you from? In addition to your inferences, unsubstantiated by any reasoning, unfounded accusations and insults, I have not heard anything from you and your kind, however, as always.

                So what? Is the site credible? I can also create a website, and write there that your ears are woolen. Would that be true?
                You say it with such pride, as if your source is a serious work recognized in scientific circles, and not an article on a knee-length sleazy Ukrainian site which is not understandable.
                You are hysterically trying to explain to everyone why you hate the Jews.
                Thanks, we already understood. Well, hate because you hate. Do not try to justify yourself. You just go the same way as a citizen with a mustache. Remember him more often - he ended badly.
                1. Day 11
                  Day 11 17 October 2013 20: 34
                  +2
                  In a quiet whisper, my question flew into oblivion. Yes, after all, Eugene? But this is the root of all questions, so to speak, a stumbling block. You all understand this very well. And you (far from stupid people). You don’t want this topic discuss? I know why.
                  1. Pimply
                    Pimply 17 October 2013 21: 09
                    0
                    Quote: Den 11
                    In a quiet whisper, my question flew into oblivion. Yes, after all, Eugene? But this is the root of all questions, so to speak, a stumbling block. You all understand this very well. And you (far from stupid people). You don’t want this topic discuss? I know why.

                    Den, try asking him again - and not in the affirmative.
                    1. Day 11
                      Day 11 17 October 2013 21: 37
                      +1
                      Eugene, here’s my repost --- And what has your nation occupied (privatized) all our natural resources? You say this is not yours but the Nenets, Chukchi (no offense for these people), Mari, Komi, etc.? Yes, this is THEIR wealth and we are friends and guests on their lands. We NEVER had any friction with them. You (your nation) clung to THEIR (and ours) wealth — until everything is sucked — fall off. Am I wrong? Are they themselves will not be able to live (even without Russia)? The Soviet state taught all nationalities! There will be smart people there too! --- No offense, Eugene. I think you are not a stupid person to understand everything yourself aete.Mysl mine probably was messy, but reflects the views of the overwhelming majority of Russia's population
                    2. roial
                      17 October 2013 21: 42
                      0
                      Quote: Den 11
                      Eugene, here’s my repost --- And what has your nation occupied (privatized) all our natural resources?


                      It is somehow strange to hear claims to a citizen of another country on the activities of citizens of the Russian Federation. If you have a complaint to them, then contact the appropriate authorities of the Russian Federation, and not make claims to Israel fool

                      You know from the 20 richest people in Russia, 4 Jews, I have defended only 4 Jews, so there is no need to drive
                      1 Roman Abramovich
                      2 Mikhail Fridman
                      3 Vladimir Lisin
                      4 Oleg Deripaska
                      5 Victor Vekselberg
                      6 Alexey Mordashov
                      7 Vladimir Potanin
                      8 Mikhail Prokhorov
                      9 Vagit Alekperov
                      10 Victor Rashnikov
                      11 Boris Ivanishvili
                      12 Vladimir Evtushenkov
                      13 Alexander Abramov
                      14 Vladimir Bogdanov
                      15 Mikhail Khodorkovsky
                      16 Herman Khan
                      17 Nikolai Tsvetkov
                      18 Leonid Fedun
                      19 Alisher Usmanov
                      20 Alexey Kuzmichev
                    3. The comment was deleted.
                    4. Revolver
                      Revolver 18 October 2013 02: 25
                      0
                      Quote: roial
                      You know from the 20 richest people in Russia, 4 Jews, I have defended only 4 Jews, so there is no need to drive

                      But is Khodorkovsky still on the list? I naively thought that all of his wealth was a camp clift and a bunk bench, and that was treasury, he only uses it. And all the income is rations, because somewhere I read that he was deprived of a stall for violation of discipline.
                  2. Pimply
                    Pimply 17 October 2013 21: 42
                    +2
                    Quote: Den 11
                    Eugene, here’s my repost --- And what has your nation occupied (privatized) all our natural resources? You say this is not yours but the Nenets, Chukchi (no offense for these people), Mari, Komi, etc.? Yes, this is THEIR wealth and we are friends and guests on their lands. We NEVER had any friction with them. You (your nation) clung to THEIR (and ours) wealth — until everything is sucked — fall off. Am I wrong? Are they themselves will not be able to live (even without Russia)? The Soviet state taught all nationalities! There will be smart people there too! --- No offense, Eugene. I think you are not a stupid person to understand everything yourself aete.Mysl mine probably was messy, but reflects the views of the overwhelming majority of Russia's population


                    It's not a question. This is a statement, Dan. As always with you. You formed your answer in the question.
                  3. Day 11
                    Day 11 17 October 2013 22: 04
                    +2
                    But, after all, Eugene, you EXCELLENTLY understood everything! So, after all?
          3. Ruslan_F38
            Ruslan_F38 17 October 2013 21: 12
            +1
            Quote: Pimply
            You are hysterically trying to explain to everyone why you hate the Jews.

            I’ll not comment on all of your hysterical nonsense listed above, I have nothing to make excuses for, but I will answer about hatred of Jews - this is not true. I just consider you astray and try to point out your mistakes, because everyone is given the opportunity to correct themselves, to acknowledge their mistakes.
            Although I will comment on something:
            So what? Is the site credible? I can also create a website, and write there that your ears are woolen. Would that be true?
            You say it with such pride, as if your source is a serious work recognized in scientific circles, and not an article on a knee-length sleazy Ukrainian site which is not understandable.

            Here again, you are mistaken, you call my links, the arguments are false - is that all you can object to me? This is not true and that’s it! Well, just iron logic, bravo!
            Apparently you will be satisfied only with the opinion of some authoritative Jew printed in the Guardian or Times. But here's the curious thing - you yourself have never once referred to anyone in disputes, sheer fabrications and conclusions, for which you accuse others of accusations of others - the sea and argumentation from everyone, while rejecting any source suggested by your opponent. And where is your argument? Yes, it’s just not there, you’re a typical notorious, excuse me — a talker and a provocateur trying to raise his self-esteem by etching others and etching others.
  • APES
    APES 18 October 2013 00: 41
    0
    What for? it doesn’t bother me at all, but you?
  • Volkolak
    Volkolak 17 October 2013 14: 07
    0
    Quote: Pimply
    Argue

    In the fall of 1934, the Zionist Leopold Edler von Mildenstein, who later became an SS Unterscharführer, published an article in the Nazi organ Angrif on the prospects for a Jewish state in Palestine. As a regular participant in the Zionist congresses, Mildenstein saw the solution to the Jewish question in the emigration of Jews to the British mandated territory, where the state of Israel actually emerged later. Reinhard Heydrich, head of the SD (security service), drew attention to this article, who liked the idea. All German Jews must leave for Palestine, if possible voluntarily or under pressure. Of course, a minority of Jewish emigrants chose Palestine as a new homeland, while the majority preferred to go to other countries, mainly to the United States.

    Mildenstein envisioned his plan for the "dissimilation" of the assimilated Jews and their transformation into Zionists. On the orders of Himmler, he organized the "Jewish Sector" to stimulate emigration. This sector supported retraining camps where young Jews received agricultural training to work in Palestinian kibbutzim. In August 1936, there were at least 37 such camps in Germany. One of them is mentioned in Neudorf even in March 1942!

    One of the most active employees in the sector was SS Adolf Eichmann, who met with Zionist leader Favel Polkes (Polkesh) in Berlin on February 27, 1937, who held the post of commander of the Hagan Jewish militants detachment in Palestine. Polkes told Eichmann that he was eager to facilitate the emigration of Jews to Palestine, so that over time there would be more Jews than Palestinians. In October of that year, Eichmann met in Cairo with Polkes for a second time. After them, SS Specialist Herbert Hagen, accompanying Eichmann, declared greater satisfaction with which Jewish nationalists perceived the radical German policy towards Jews, because it contributed to an increase in their number in Palestine, as described by the Zionist historian Lionel Dadiani:
    “One of the leaders of the Haganah F. Polkes, in February-March 1937, made contact with the Gestapo and Nazi intelligence officers, being at their invitation in Berlin ... Polkes, transmitting to the Nazi emissaries a number of important information that interested them ... made several important statements. “National Jewish circles,” he stressed, “expressed great joy about the radical policy towards Jews, as a result of which the Jewish population of Palestine has grown so much that in the foreseeable future it will be possible for Jews, not Arabs, to become a majority in Palestine. " [4]
  • Volkolak
    Volkolak 17 October 2013 14: 11
    +3
    Quote: Pimply
    Argue

    Another task of Zionism was to export the capital of the large Jewish bourgeoisie in Germany and invest it in the Zionist enterprises of Palestine. In June 1933, a secret agreement was concluded between an Anglo-Palestinian bank, effectively owned by the Jewish Agency, and the Nazi Ministry of Economy, encrypted by the Zionists in the Hebrew word haavara (deal). Persons leaving for Palestine deposited money into a special account in two German banks. With these amounts, German goods were exported to Palestine, and then to other countries of the Near and Middle East. Part of the proceeds was given to immigrants from Germany who arrived in Palestine, and about 50% was appropriated by the Nazis. For 5 years (1933-1938) the Zionists managed to pump over 40 million dollars into Palestine (a huge amount at that time), which then amounted to about 60% of all investments in Palestine. Thus, with the assistance of Nazi Germany (which earned about $ 50 million from this operation), the economic foundation of Israel's future was laid.
  • albai
    albai 17 October 2013 20: 43
    0
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ut6HHLCSkV0&list=PL698C80F31BCDD15A&index=7&featu
    re = plpp_video Try to refute!
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 17 October 2013 21: 15
      +2
      As I understand it, you are an open racist and anti-Semite, like David Duke. In the Ku Klus Klan, like him, also signed up?
      1. Volkolak
        Volkolak 17 October 2013 21: 58
        +2
        Quote: Pimply
        As I understand it, you are an open racist and anti-Semite, like David Duke. In the Ku Klus Klan, like him, also signed up?

        All you can do is brand and label. You have not written anything justified, just a shortcut and flood, a flood and shortcut, and so all the comments.
  • roial
    17 October 2013 12: 14
    +1
    FSO in the parade: photo chronicle of one special operation

    http://bigpicture.ru/?p=357468
  • atalef
    atalef 17 October 2013 13: 55
    +3
    Thanks to the author, we look forward to continuing.
    By the way, not so long ago, communicating with those fighting in Chayette -13, the marine special forces found out the history of the name why 13, Chayette is a squadron, and that's why Chayette -13, just every month, on the 13th (when it was not yet no special forces (but only inclinations), they gathered, because it was mainly people from the USSR and Europe, it was just that day that they commemorated the victims with a must-say booze, and this tradition remained after the special forces got his name Squadron -13

    Officially, the unit was established on January 1, 1950. The decision to form a fleet of naval commandos was made at the end of 1949. The Thirteenth Flotilla received its name at the request of the members of the Yohai Ben Nun group, the first commander of the command of naval saboteurs. On one of the missions, a boat sank in battle, and all participants in the operation died. Only one fighter Zeev Frid managed to escape. He swam to the shore. This happened on the 13th. After this tragic event, the members of the group began to gather on the thirteenth of each month to raise a glass of wine in memory of the deceased comrades to the words of Haim Hafer’s song “Shushun” (Rose) specially written for this day. The members of that first group turned to the command with a request to give the new unit the serial number “13 ″. Yokhai Ben Nun was appointed flotilla commander, and Yosef Dror his deputy.

    first commander of naval special forces
    http://wikisphere.ru/wiki/%D0%99%D0%BE%D1%85%D0%B0%D0%B9_%D0%91%D0%B8%D0%BD-%D0%
    9D% D1% 83% D0% BD
    1. Ascetic
      Ascetic 17 October 2013 14: 34
      +6
      Quote: atalef
      We are waiting for the continuation.


      I read this article there in three more parts, in my opinion, because there is nothing about Matkal (an approximate analogue of the GRU DRG) or about Flotilla 13 (combat swimmers). in fact, these units can be called army special forces in the full sense of the word, if we talk specifically about army tasks, and everything else is evil, with the specifics of the army special forces essentially having nothing in common.
      1. roial
        17 October 2013 14: 40
        +3
        There will be 4 more publications, and Matkal, Shayetet 13 (Flotilla 13), the Yamam police special unit, etc.
        1. Ascetic
          Ascetic 17 October 2013 20: 44
          +5
          Quote: roial
          There will be 4 more publications, and Matkal, Shayetet 13 (Flotilla 13), the Yamam police special unit, etc.

          By the way, the article does not mention a word about the role of the USSR in the formation of the Israeli army, including special forces. Stalin's falcons, the Berkut detachment of the 101th intelligence school and the "C" Directorate of General Sudoplatov, also had a hand in this.
          As a result, Captain Halperin (born in Vitebsk in 1912) became the founder and first leader of Mossad intelligence, created the Shin Bet public security and counterintelligence service. The history of Israel and its special services “honorary pensioner and faithful heir to Beria,” the second man after Ben-Gurion, entered under the name Iser Harel. Smersha officer Livanov founded and led the foreign intelligence of Nativa Bar. He took the Jewish name Nehimiya Levanon, under which he entered the history of Israeli intelligence. Captains Nikolsky, Zaitsev and Malevanyi “set up” the work of the special forces of the IDF, two officers of the Navy (names could not be established) created and trained a unit of naval special forces. Theoretical training was regularly reinforced by practical exercises - raids on the rear of the Arab armies and sweeps of Arab villages

          link
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 17 October 2013 21: 10
            -1
            Quote: Ascetic
            By the way, the article does not mention a word about the role of the USSR in the formation of the Israeli army, including special forces. Stalin's falcons, the Berkut detachment of the 101th intelligence school and the "C" Directorate of General Sudoplatov, also had a hand in this.

            Do not read bedtime stories.
            1. Volkolak
              Volkolak 17 October 2013 22: 02
              +2
              Quote: Pimply
              Do not read bedtime stories.

              Argument.
            2. Ascetic
              Ascetic 17 October 2013 22: 05
              +3
              Quote: Pimply
              Do not read bedtime stories.


              Did Netanyahu also serve in Mitkal like Barak? As for fairy tales, it can then be believed that only a genius, one Arnan, became the founder of special forces and used methods from the experience of the British CAC. Here is another version of the journalist Kapitonov
              ABRAHAM ARNAN. FATHER OF JEWISH SWAT
              Somehow I can’t believe it, the young enthusiast alone fought with all inert bosses heroically promoting the idea of ​​creating commandos in the reconnaissance of the General Staff. request
              In addition to arms assistance, according to Yitzhak Shamir, during the first Arab-Israeli war, the Soviet Union sent a group of Soviet Jewish officers, participants in the Second World War, who were directly involved in the hostilities and provided advisory assistance. After deteriorating relations with Israel in the future, all of them were recalled. [97]. There is an opinion that the Israeli special forces from scratch was created at the personal direction of Stalin. [98] [99] A number of authors cite the fact that Captain Halperin (entered the history of Israel under the name Iser Harel) - became the founder and first head of intelligence Mossad, the officer "Smersha" Livanov (Nehimiya Levanon) - founded and led the foreign intelligence "Nativa Bar", the captain Nikolsky, Zaitsev and Malevany dedicated themselves to the work of the special forces of the Tsakhal. [100] [101] [102] Among other things, Soviet specialists took part in the creation of the Israel Defense Forces. [103]


              The role of Stalin in the creation of the state of Israel

              Valery Malevaniy "Special Forces of Israel", ed. "Yauza", Moscow, 2005.
              1. atalef
                atalef 17 October 2013 22: 11
                -2
                Quote: Ascetic
                Somehow I can’t believe it, the young enthusiast alone fought with all inert bosses heroically promoting the idea of ​​creating commandos in the reconnaissance of the General Staff.

                The role of individuals cannot be overlooked. but as in the creation of the special forces there was not only Arnan, and maybe special forces from the USSR too, but it’s not only important to create, but also to preserve and increase. And in this there is no longer any role either of Arnan, nor of Stalin and the NKVD proponents.
                1. Ascetic
                  Ascetic 18 October 2013 09: 26
                  +2
                  Quote: atalef
                  , but it’s not only important to create, but also to preserve and increase.

                  I agree, but only when talking about creation stories if the author claims to have an objective approach, which he himself speaks about at the beginning, it is not serious to hold back the role of the USSR in military construction of the IDF, because this is no longer an objective approach
          2. densh
            densh 17 October 2013 21: 13
            +1
            There are murky rumors about the supply of captured weapons to Israel through Czechoslovakia, with the knowledge of the USSR.
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 17 October 2013 21: 19
              +3
              From Czechoslovakia. With the permission of the USSR.
            2. Pimply
              Pimply 17 October 2013 21: 40
              +1
              No rumors. It is quite official. But the period was very short. They put 24 messer, and shooter.
            3. atalef
              atalef 17 October 2013 22: 12
              +3
              Quote: densh
              There are murky rumors about the supply of captured weapons to Israel through Czechoslovakia, with the knowledge of the CCC

              Nothing muddy here, it’s a completely historical fact. described in dozens of sources.
      2. Pimply
        Pimply 17 October 2013 18: 21
        +2
        About Matkal it is necessary separately and about Shaetet - separately. It's actually becoming interesting. Matkal, at first, actually picked up "leftovers from the table." By the way, this is connected with a large number of awards from Ehud Barak - the awards increased the prestige of the unit.
        1. Ascetic
          Ascetic 17 October 2013 20: 30
          +5
          In 1992, Israel was preparing a special operation to remove Jews from Dushanbe, like an Ethiopian operation (I don’t remember the name). My relatives also suffered these events. The cousin’s husband then served as a helicopter squadron, thanks to him, an aunt and sisters were able to fly to Ukraine to his relatives on a BTA plane. They still live, and so he said that Jews ask for help through their intermediaries to help planes when street fighting started ( direct flights organized to Tel Aviv were no longer enough), Israeli special forces had to arrive and evacuate Jews to the airport, who were in the nearby synagogue. As a result, something did not grow together or a decision was not made and the operation did not take place. Surely the base would be Matkal
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 17 October 2013 21: 16
            +3
            Quote: Ascetic
            So he said that the Jews asked for help through their intermediaries to help with the planes when the street battles started (there were no longer enough direct flights organized to Tel Aviv), Israeli special forces should have arrived and evacuated the Jews to the airport, who were in the nearby synagogue. As a result, something did not grow together or a decision was not made and the operation did not take place. Surely the base would be Matkal

            Not necessarily, although possible.
          2. Alex 241
            Alex 241 18 October 2013 02: 07
            0
            Operation Solomon During this military operation in 1991, 36 Jews were removed from Ethiopia to Israel in 14 hours.
      3. atalef
        atalef 17 October 2013 21: 28
        0
        Quote: Ascetic
        I read this article there in three more parts, in my opinion, because there is nothing about Matkal (an approximate analogue of the GRU DRG) or about Flotilla 13 (combat swimmers). in fact, these units can be called army special forces in the full sense of the word

        today
        The IDF Express Combat Training Championship took place on Thursday, October 17. It was conducted in two subgroups. In subgroup A, the special forces unit of the Israeli Navy "Shayetet 13" turned out to be the strongest, despite the fact that its rivals were the fighters of the elite unit of the General Staff Guard (Sayeret MATKAL) and the Israeli Air Force special unit "Shaldag".

        In subgroup B, the championship went to the special canine unit of the IDF “Okets”, which won the overall results of the competition among the fighters of the special unit “Rimon” and the brigade “Golani”.

        A feature of the express championship is its suddenness, ”said Colonel Oren Gil, head of the IDF’s Combat Training Directorate. According to him, this is the only way to objectively evaluate the true level of preparedness of the personnel of a given unit for specific combat missions.

        9tv.co.il
    2. Pimply
      Pimply 17 October 2013 18: 16
      +3
      Quote: atalef
      Shayet is a squadron

      A well-established translation is a flotilla.
  • Forest
    Forest 17 October 2013 13: 57
    +2
    To the question of the history of the state
    1. roial
      17 October 2013 14: 11
      +8

      Just in case, I’ll explain: on the podium in the foreground are Heinz Wilhelm Guderian and Semen Moiseevich Krivoshein.

      No need to spoil the story, the article discusses the professional qualities of Israeli special forces,

      I can compare Israel of those years with the USSR of the period of the 20s where one that another country was in the ring of enemies ready to do anything to wipe it off the face of the earth, but the camps stood and proved their right to life and existence.
      1. Forest
        Forest 17 October 2013 14: 21
        0
        Just in case, I’ll explain it - the Nazi flag was not waved at home.
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 17 October 2013 18: 37
          +1
          Are you so sure of that? In the photo - 1939 year.

          In the 33 year, there was no Internet, and the anti-Jewish campaign had not yet flared up. Fascist and Nazi ideology enjoyed popularity in the world. That this ideology is in fact, proved the Second World War.

          True, it is surprising that in a country that played a decisive role in the fight against Nazism, a huge number of people idolize Hitler and throw "zigi", and his hatred of Jews travels through the people like an infection. So I picked you up.

          In history, you can always find this or that group of people, a fact, a photograph. There is an expression "a pig is looking for dirt everywhere."

          Well, and among other things - now you are breaking about three articles from the rules of the site and one of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation.
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 17 October 2013 18: 47
            +3
            It’s just that the Germans have gnarly plagiarized our swastika. Order of 1919:
            1. Beck
              Beck 18 October 2013 09: 07
              -1
              Quote: Spade
              It’s just that the Germans gnarled our swastika.


              In general, the Germans, that others have coordinated the swastika among the sages of the east, the ancient religions of Tibet and the surrounding area.

              The swastika denotes the sun. At first, in sacred meaning, the sun was depicted as a circle with diverging rays. Then the circle disappeared, only multiple rays remained, the intersection of straight lines at one point. Then only symbolism remained - just a cross. And part of the crosses was depicted with broken ends, indicating the course of the sun in the sky.

              Hitler, inclined in his youth to all kinds of occultism, and took the swastika as the emblem of the party, not understanding the very essence of the swastika. And with this the ancient symbol defiled. Just as he attributed the German nation to the Aryans. Arias are ancient Indo-European tribes Iranian group - Scythians, Sarmatians, Saks, Massagets, Ephthalites and others. And the main resettlement of the Aryans, up to 1-2 centuries, was - Trans-Urals, Trans-Volga, Kazakhstan, South Siberia to the Yenisei, Central Asia, Xinjiang. And then the Aryans penetrated into Afghanistan, Northern India, Iran. And modern linguists in the Iranian language gave a common name to the whole group of related languages.
      2. Volkolak
        Volkolak 17 October 2013 14: 23
        +2
        Quote: roial
        The article discusses the professional qualities of Israeli special forces,

        Just about, just about the origins of Israel's special forces, we are talking. Trying to understand why such professionalism comes from? !! "And the casket was just opening," the "good" teachers had decent students.
        1. il grand casino
          il grand casino 17 October 2013 14: 25
          +2
          Have you read the article? Or just decided to blurt out something? Here is a quote from the article:

          “Many of the soldiers who arrived in Israel already had combat experience accumulated during their service in the armies of other countries. These were mainly Jewish soldiers of the British Army, the Polish troops, the Red Army and fighters of partisan detachments that fought in the fields of World War II.
          Also in Israel itself (mandated Palestine) there were many young activists of Zionist organizations, some of whom were trained by the British to repel a possible fascist invasion of Palestine. "
          1. Volkolak
            Volkolak 17 October 2013 14: 47
            0
            Quote: il grand casino
            there were many young activists of Zionist organizations,

            Here I am about it.
            Quote: il grand casino
            some of which were prepared by the British to repel a possible fascist invasion of Palestine. "

            Do you yourself believe in what you write? Stop feeding us outright nonsense. It was the Nazis who trained the young Zionists, and not otherwise. Do not try to wishful thinking.
            1. il grand casino
              il grand casino 17 October 2013 14: 54
              +2
              Quote: VOLKOLAK
              Do you yourself believe in what you write? Stop feeding us outright nonsense. It was the Nazis who trained the young Zionists, and not otherwise. Do not try to wishful thinking.

              Paranoia? ...
              1. Volkolak
                Volkolak 17 October 2013 15: 01
                -1
                Quote: il grand casino
                Paranoia? ...

                The Jews had a trump card in their sleeves, the Holocaust (the third temple, yet you built Yad Vashem). She has exhausted herself, the Jews have gone too far, checks are underway.
              2. The comment was deleted.
                1. Volkolak
                  Volkolak 17 October 2013 16: 18
                  +2
                  Quote: Katsin1
                  I’m sure that if you dig a little deeper, this creature (Volkolak) will talk about the fictional Holocaust and about the twins blown up by the Americans themselves 11/09

                  In your (in Zionist) all who think differently are enemies. Everyone should live and think as the Jews want. Well, no, dear Katsin1 (or MironK, you have a lot of nicknames here). Take your HISTORY, and for ... throw it to hell. hi
                  PS
                  Stop messing up in PM.
                2. Pimply
                  Pimply 17 October 2013 18: 42
                  +2
                  Quote: Katsin1
                  I'm not sure ... More like an overvalued idea. I'm sure that if you dig deeper, then this creature (Volkolak) will tell about the fictional holocaust and about the twins blown up by the Americans themselves on 11/09

                  Do not go. I filed a complaint with the administration of the site. Continues in the same vein - typed in a criminal.
            2. Aaron Zawi
              Aaron Zawi 17 October 2013 17: 47
              +1
              Quote: VOLKOLAK

              Do you yourself believe in what you write? Stop feeding us outright nonsense. It was the Nazis who trained the young Zionists, and not otherwise. Do not try to wishful thinking.

              well yes . Reminded: "Why teach geography. I will call a cabman and he will bring it." (Fonvizin)
          2. The comment was deleted.
            1. Dezzed
              Dezzed 17 October 2013 20: 23
              +1
              Uncle, hold the dog.
        2. Forest
          Forest 17 October 2013 14: 26
          -5
          Already three "minuses" I predict 5)))
        3. roial
          17 October 2013 14: 31
          +5
          Do you know how to bind the Jews and the Nazis? How do you need to sort this out ???

          And the fact that they were trained and sponsored by the British is no one denies.

          And the student ultimately surpassed the teacher.
          1. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 17 October 2013 14: 38
            +7
            Quote: roial
            You know, to connect the Jews and the Nazis it is necessary to sort out

            Read the Torah, only on a sober head, and you will understand that the Nazis are far from the Jews in their relation to other peoples.
            1. roial
              17 October 2013 14: 43
              +2
              Read the Torah, only on a sober head, and you will understand that the Nazis are far from the Jews in their relation to other peoples.


              So we are not saints, only those to our enemies, and we to our own.
              1. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 17 October 2013 14: 51
                0
                Quote: roial
                So we are not saints, only those to our enemies, and we to our own.

                They also have enough parties. And there is no question of holiness, everything happened. But these are our internal graters. We are talking about the attitude towards other nations - "Goy is worse than a dog", how's that for you? Don't you envy the dog?
                1. Ingvar 72
                  Ingvar 72 17 October 2013 15: 14
                  0
                  What are the cons? Did I reveal a big Jewish secret? laughing Or do some goyim not like the dog comparison? wassat
                  Quote: Ingvar 72
                  "Goy is worse than a dog", how's that for you? Don't you envy the dog?
                  So it's not me comparing you. I am just quoting. laughing
                2. Dezzed
                  Dezzed 17 October 2013 20: 29
                  -1
                  comrade, why are you all leaning on religion?
              2. Dober
                Dober 17 October 2013 15: 09
                +3
                Quote: roial
                Do you know how to bind the Jews and the Nazis? How do you need to sort this out ???

                This is from ignorance ... It is completely treated.
                Quote: roial
                So we are not saints

                How self-critical. Things are already on the mend. Are healers Jews? Will we start repenting now? Prepare "reparations" ...
          2. Forest
            Forest 17 October 2013 14: 41
            -1
            And what to bind them, they themselves hold the flag and even smile contentedly, and if someone does not believe their eyes, then these are his personal problems of a physiological order)
            1. roial
              17 October 2013 14: 45
              +3
              I signed my photo, and who is unknown to you, the circumstances of this photo are unknown (maybe they are photographed against a trophy ??)
              1. Forest
                Forest 17 October 2013 15: 07
                +2
                "In an interview given after the war, the former head of the Zionist Federation of Germany, Hans Friedenthal, said:" The Gestapo did everything in those days to help the emigration, especially to Palestine. We often received various assistance from them ... "(F. Nicosia. "The Third Reich and the Palestinian Question"). "
                The photo is certainly not with a trophy.
        4. Pimply
          Pimply 17 October 2013 18: 41
          0
          Quote: VOLKOLAK
          Just about, just about the origins of Israel's special forces, we are talking. Trying to understand why such professionalism comes from? !! "And the casket was just opening," the "good" teachers had decent students.

          Not. Do not try. You simply actively violate both the rules of the site and the article of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation. What will prove any linguistic examination.
          1. Volkolak
            Volkolak 17 October 2013 19: 05
            +5
            Quote: Pimply
            Not. Do not try. You simply actively violate both the rules of the site and the article of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation. What will prove any linguistic examination.

            Oh, scared. Interestingly, your blog will pull on the criminal? Poet itit-pound. When you take you to clean water, threats begin.
            1. Aaron Zawi
              Aaron Zawi 17 October 2013 19: 20
              0
              Quote: VOLKOLAK

              Oh, scared. Interestingly, your blog will pull on the criminal? Poet itit-pound. When you take you to clean water, threats begin.

              And you spit. You are clean before the law.
            2. Pimply
              Pimply 17 October 2013 19: 34
              +4
              Quote: VOLKOLAK
              Oh, scared. Interestingly, your blog will pull on the criminal? Poet itit-pound. When you take you to clean water, threats begin.

              I do not scare. I am stating a fact. And you shook your nerves. Because at the moment you are violating the article of the Criminal Code of your state. You break it as if it was breaking glass, or you attacked a person with a knife. Of course, you'll be flaunting right now - you have never faced real danger. You will be puffed up. Already trying. Only now, according to the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation, you have already committed a crime. And the question is how lazy or angry I will be, or someone else. Will they file an application with you or not. And according to this article, several people have already sat down. So go on. The more comments there are, the easier it will be for the prosecutor to collect evidence. 8) Go on.
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. The comment was deleted.
            3. crisis
              crisis 17 October 2013 23: 27
              0
              what is the point you threaten you are far away) or that you were scared?))
              1. Apollo
                Apollo 17 October 2013 23: 32
                +4
                Quote: crisis
                what is the point you threaten you are far away) or that you were scared?))


                I bring to the attention of visitors posting comments in this thread. All comments are carefully monitored, moreover, do not comply with the rules of the VO, will be deleted immediately until warnings are issued. I call for mutual tolerance .activity and respect for each other.
      3. Dezzed
        Dezzed 17 October 2013 20: 09
        +2
        somewhere there in 1940 comrade Semyon Moiseevich Krivoshein was
        Commander of the 2nd Panzer Division of the 3rd Mechanized Corps.
        that is, "on the podium in the foreground" he stands as a Soviet officer (brigade commander) and not as a private Jewish person!

        if absolutely precisely then:

        "On September 22, 1939, brigade commander S. M. Krivoshein, together with the German general G. Guderian, took part in the ceremony of transferring Brest nad Bug to the USSR"

        all questions to comrade Boris Mikhailovich Shaposhnikov
    2. Aaron Zawi
      Aaron Zawi 17 October 2013 17: 45
      +3
      Quote: Forest
      To the question of the history of the state

      This is a photograph of the Templars. Namely "Templars", not "Templars". These are the Germans who overpowered into Turkish Palestine at the end of the 19th century. Among them, the Nazi movement was created in the 30s. In 1939 they all emigrated to Germany.
      1. atalef
        atalef 17 October 2013 19: 13
        +2
        Quote: Aron Zaavi
        This is a photograph of the Templars. Namely "Templars", not "Templars". These are the Germans who overpowered into Turkish Palestine at the end of the 19th century. Among them, the Nazi movement was created in the 30s. In 1939 they all emigrated to Germany.

        In Haifa, there is still the so-called Moshava Germanite (German colony settlement)
        German colony.
        It originated in the second half of the 19th century. Several hundred families from Germany arrived in Haifa solely for "ideological" (religious) reasons. They supported their leader Christopher Hoffman in his desire to return the people to the true Christian faith, one that would be free from politics and finance, and after him rushed to the Holy Land: to preach Christianity and prepare for the coming of the Messiah

        these red roofs are the old houses of the German settlement
    3. Revolver
      Revolver 18 October 2013 02: 36
      +2
      Quote: Forest
      To the question of the history of the state
      In the picture, the Germans. Many Germans have lived in the so-called Palestine since the time of the Ottoman Empire. In the 1st World War they were treated humanely, but with the beginning of the 2nd all were deported. Photo clearly pre-war years, then in Jerusalem there was even a local branch of the NSDAP.
      1. Forest
        Forest 18 October 2013 08: 32
        -1
        It remains to justify the words of the head of the Zionist Federation of Germany, Hans Fredentalya.
  • Professor
    Professor 17 October 2013 14: 13
    +5
    Although Unit 101 did not last long, it brought fear to the Arabs so much that they still fear Sharon, despite the fact that he has long been in a coma. By the way, Sharon didn’t forget any of his colleagues and “allocated” land plots to many (it wouldn’t work now) and closed his eyes to what they were doing there. For example, 101 km from Eilat or the Akziv coast. They still cannot evict these fellow soldiers.
    101 kilometer - a paradise, on the road to Eilat

    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 17 October 2013 14: 44
      0
      Quote: Professor
      Although unit 101 did not last long, it caused so much fear on the Arabs that they are still afraid of Sharon, despite the fact that he has long been in a coma.

      Of course, so much meat in Arab villages has been heaped up, expanding the boundaries of the "young state". After this, the German Sonderkommando are just children.
      1. Professor
        Professor 17 October 2013 14: 46
        0
        Quote: Ingvar 72
        Of course, so much meat in Arab villages has been heaped up, expanding the boundaries of the "young state". After this, the German Sonderkommando are just children.

        Do the children have these names? Call me?
      2. Lopatov
        Lopatov 17 October 2013 14: 50
        +5
        Are you talking about Kibbia, where the heroic warriors of Sharon, under his direct supervision of the house, were blown up together with the inhabitants?
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 17 October 2013 18: 56
          +1
          Quote: Spade
          Are you talking about Kibbia, where the heroic warriors of Sharon, under his direct supervision of the house, were blown up together with the inhabitants?

          Lopatov, you are well aware of the difference in the killing of premeditated and related civilian casualties. And you also understand very well that there is a difference in when things are done to save civilians or not.
          Or - wait a minute - you want to continue this discussion further. You understand that in this way you’re blaming Alpha’s fighters for the murder of the Nord-Ost hostages, who stormed Grozny in the genocide of the civilian population, and Pennant for the death of the hostages in Beslan. I am wrong? And don’t tell me that it’s different.
          Civilians always die in war. The question is what are you doing so that they die as little as possible. And you know this is no worse than me.
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 17 October 2013 19: 06
            +5
            These are not "collateral victims", they are those who died in the blown-up houses. I will never believe that Sharon's "heroes" are so brainless that they did not think that civilians can hide from shooting on the street in their own homes.
            1. Aaron Zawi
              Aaron Zawi 17 October 2013 19: 27
              +2
              Quote: Spade
              These are not "collateral victims", they are those who died in the blown-up houses. I will never believe that Sharon's "heroes" are so brainless that they did not think that civilians can hide from shooting on the street in their own homes.

              You are a combat officer. How long does it take for a sabotage group in the depths of the enemy's disposition to conduct an operation and withdraw, before the approach of serious enemy forces. "Detachment 101" was very far from the level of real special forces. He could neither plan nor carry out a real surgical operation. The houses were not mined, but were thrown with dynamite bombs. So again, miracles do not happen. Before creating a highly professional special forces, a lot of firewood was broken, fighters were lost, and of course there were successes. But I had to learn from my own mistakes.
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 17 October 2013 19: 46
                +4
                Sorry, but this is not a "sabotage group behind enemy lines," there was no less than five-fold numerical superiority. An ordinary military operation.

                Quote: Aron Zaavi
                "Detachment 101" was very far from the level of real special forces.

                That's right. Punitive expeditions - not specialized work for military special forces

                Quote: Aron Zaavi
                You are a combat officer.

                And therefore, at least kill, I won’t believe that it is possible to prepare capital constructions for the explosion (the richest houses were blown up - this was the task), without first having searched them for any uncle with weapons.
                1. Pimply
                  Pimply 17 October 2013 20: 33
                  +1
                  Quote: Spade
                  Sorry, but this is not a "sabotage group behind enemy lines," there was no less than five-fold numerical superiority. An ordinary military operation.

                  Are you kidding me? 8) Well, yes, apparently.

                  Quote: Spade
                  That's right. Punitive expeditions - not specialized work for military special forces

                  That is, stripping with bombings of militant houses is not the work of special forces? It’s strange. And to me a friend who worked in this field for 6 years in Chechnya, and he didn’t tell such a thing.


                  Quote: Spade
                  And therefore, at least kill, I won’t believe that it is possible to prepare capital constructions for the explosion (the richest houses were blown up - this was the task), without first having searched them for any uncle with weapons.

                  If only because the number of 101 units was relatively small, reinforcements could come to the enemy, and the task was to hit and leave quickly.

                  A group of Shlomo Baum reached the starting point of the attack - the intersection of roads in front of the village - and broke into the eastern part of Kibia under erratic but strong fire from a Jordanian fortified post. Davidi's group launched an attack on this post. After some time, a general escape began in the village: hundreds of residents fled towards the neighboring village of Budrus, and the soldiers of the Gozni branch, who rode the path leading there to not allow Jordanian aid to Kibia, freely allowed the Arabs fleeing Kibia. But the truck with Jordanian soldiers, who left Budrus on Kibia, was stopped and set on fire with bottles of combustible mixture. Jordanians fled; the soldiers of the Arab Legion also left their fortified posts; a few minutes later Kibiya was empty ... The Demoman set about their work.

                  The village seemed extinct ... Apparently, there was no one in the houses either: only in one of them the soldiers found a little girl forgotten by their parents, and in one of them - an old Arab. The girl and the old man were sent to Budrus. However, there was no time for a thorough search, and he was not included in the plan of the operation. “We thought that all the inhabitants had been running for a long time,” one of the participants recalled. “We did not search the buildings, did not look either at the upper floors or in the cellar - we did not have a search order.”

                  Mining took place in a hurry. And you somehow forget that all the operations were carried out by the newly created unit. Which naturally made mistakes. For which it was disbanded.
                  1. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 17 October 2013 20: 54
                    +2
                    Quote: Pimply
                    Are you kidding me? 8) Well, yes, apparently.

                    No, I'm exaggerating. Three hundred dug with mortars against 30 half-educated from the Arab Legion this is not a "military operation", but the beating of babies. Well, and to call it "sabotage" especially the language does not turn.

                    Quote: Pimply
                    That is, stripping with bombings of militant houses is not the work of special forces? It’s strange. And to me a friend who worked in this field for 6 years in Chechnya, and he didn’t tell such a thing.

                    In the process of these stories, noodles should be removed from the ears regularly, this helps.

                    Quote: Pimply
                    If only because the number of 101 units was relatively small, reinforcements could come to the enemy, and the task was to hit and leave quickly.

                    A total of 143 people from "Unit 101" took part in this punitive expedition. Apart from the paratroopers.

                    Quote: Pimply
                    “We thought that all the inhabitants had been running for a long time,” one of the participants recalled. “We did not search the buildings, did not look either at the upper floors or in the cellar - we did not have a search order.”

                    Not only are the fighters of the elite Israeli unit stupid, like traffic jams, do they also completely lack the instinct for self-preservation? Very poorly believed. The native Russian infantry, clearing Chechen cellars from pickles and jams, acted more professionally.
                    1. roial
                      17 October 2013 20: 56
                      +1
                      Native Russian infantry, clearing Chechen cellars from pickles and jams, acted more professionally


                      I just threw grenades at the basements.
                      1. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 17 October 2013 20: 58
                        +2
                        Quote: roial
                        I just threw grenades at the basements.


                        And then licked the jam from the shelves?
                    2. Aaron Zawi
                      Aaron Zawi 17 October 2013 21: 21
                      +1
                      Quote: Spade

                      Not only are the fighters of the elite Israeli unit stupid, like traffic jams, do they also completely lack the instinct for self-preservation? Very poorly believed. The native Russian infantry, clearing Chechen cellars from pickles and jams, acted more professionally.

                      That's just the point that was not the 101 elite in the normal sense of the word. Look, those who went through the war were demobilized long ago. Tea 1953, not 1948. The main mass of fighters was 20-21 years old. Among them, there were even a few participants in the War of Independence. Yes, they were the strongest and maybe even well-trained at the KMB and courses, but up to the level of the soldiers of the "engineering assault brigades" of the Red Army, they were like the moon.
                      1. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 17 October 2013 21: 37
                        +4
                        Our infantry cannot be called elite either. But in terms of professionalism, they seem to have gone far from Sharon's "heroes". It looks like shagistika on the parade ground and laying snow in neat piles very much promote the fighters in terms of combat training
                      2. Aaron Zawi
                        Aaron Zawi 17 October 2013 22: 02
                        -1
                        Quote: Spade
                        Our infantry cannot be called elite either. But in terms of professionalism, they seem to have gone far from Sharon's "heroes". It looks like shagistika on the parade ground and laying snow in neat piles very much promote the fighters in terms of combat training

                        Infantry 45 years old can be called. Especially in the TK mech / brigades, "engineering assault" brigades and in the Plastun brigades.
                      3. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 17 October 2013 22: 22
                        +2
                        Infantry Sample 45 is possible. Sample 1998 - I do not think so.

                        I will describe to you a real case that occurred in the village of Pionerskoye. Two burdocks, after listening to the heroic stories of demobels, decided to carry out a special operation to clean up the cellars from pickles and jams. We went to work competently, in the "dog watch". We entered the house, began to check it, and beat up two militants in the attic, a machine gunner and an observer. Which, of course, ... a flash due to the time of arrival of our infantrymen. Frightened, they ran to the company commander to report. He paternally rewarded them with several cuffs and sent a battalion of hooligans, conditionally convicted and other problematic ones, collected by the ZKB in a grenade launcher platoon for the corpses, so that they were in plain sight. They went and ran into a rescue expedition from the other side. Three more were sapped.

                        Like this. The drill, snow piles, and watching American fighters are great strength. You realize how much better prepared the two marauders were than the "Team 101" fighters, who managed not to check the buildings before placing the charges in them. After all, this is a long matter, there anyhow you can't throw TNT sticks on the floor. Or to lay in the right places, which is long, or to train hundreds of kg of explosives, which is inconvenient.
                      4. Rumata
                        Rumata 18 October 2013 00: 28
                        +1
                        Quote: Spade
                        Infantry Sample 45 is possible. Sample 1998 - I do not think so.

                        I will describe to you a real case that occurred in the village of Pionerskoye.

                        Just the difference in 45 years, you think. It is necessary to compare with what was then or take modern AOI soldiers, their training and how they work.
                        Quote: Spade
                        The name of the village where the Russian or Soviet army blew up houses with residents do not specify?

                        They didn’t intentionally blow it up, knowing that there were people there. Similar accidents were enough in the days of the USSR.
                        Maybe these are words offended by the army and the country, I don’t know, but here are a couple of quotes
                        As soon as a helicopter with special forces hovered over a riding car or a group of nomads, they were supposed to stop. In case of disobedience, the helicopter crew gave a warning line from a machine gun mounted in the pilot's cabin in front of a moving object. Usually, even the most thoughtful nomad or peasant after this turn understood what they wanted from him, and stopped. If a warning signal was ignored on the ground, helicopters opened fire to kill from all the airborne weapons.

                        ... A typical situation occurred in Nangarhar in the winter of 1985. A group of Afghans traveling by bus to Pakistan disappeared without a trace in the rocky desert. Their tracks were found a few months later. Relatives of the missing persons found in the dump a broken equipment arranged by the Jalalabad special forces battalion near the base, the same ill-fated bus riddled with bullets
                        captain Alexey Chikishev
                        (66 DBL, Ghazni Province, 1984-1985)

                        Also, for a snap, you can recall the artillery bombardment before the assault on Pervomaisky and shooting from tanks at home during the assault itself, on the one hand it was necessary to smoke militants, on the other, civilians were killed ...
                        Z.Y
                        In January 1996, Deputy Secretary of the Security Council of the Russian Federation Vladimir Rubanov, in an interview with the Interfax news agency, stated that there were no official statistics of victims among civilians in Chechnya, there was only an estimate of human rights defenders - 25-30 thousand dead. They all died a natural death, or all were killed by militants. Even if 1% is the work of the RF Armed Forces, through negligence or stupidity, this is already 300 people.
                      5. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 18 October 2013 00: 49
                        +1
                        Firstly, you still do not understand that I am sure that the operation in Kibiya was an act of intimidation, and the soldiers knew very well that there were civilians in the bombed houses? I do not believe in fairy tales about "we did not check", it is simply impossible.

                        Secondly, do not confuse collateral losses and targeted destruction of civilians. I about the attendants, which the Israeli army often admits, did not show anything. The opposite side of the conflict is to blame for them.

                        Thirdly, by bus: a very good friend of mine was killed in Chechnya by VVshniki. For some reason, he drove somewhere in the "Ural" senior after "stop-wheels" (at night all movements on the roads stopped, the fire opened without warning). The result is a turn from the NSVS, he died, the driver was seriously wounded, the VVshniki themselves saved. Most likely, it turned out the same way. On helicopters - from the category of "artillery battalion in the village after the first shot." Frighten - frightened, but hardly ever did that. But at the same time, they spread rumors among the local population about such "facts"
                      6. Rumata
                        Rumata 18 October 2013 01: 15
                        +1
                        Quote: Spade
                        Firstly, you still do not understand that I am sure that the operation in Kibiya was an act of intimidation, and the soldiers knew very well that there were civilians in the bombed houses? I do not believe in fairy tales about "we did not check", it is simply impossible.

                        Well then, it's stupid to argue. Nobody will prove anything to anyone, you are sure that they were killed on purpose, I don’t ...
                        Quote: Spade
                        On helicopters - from the category of "artillery battalion in the village after the first shot." Frighten - frightened, but hardly ever did that. But at the same time, they spread rumors among the local population about such "facts"

                        I know that Sladkov always exaggerated, but there’s no arguing against the video. At the beginning of this part. or at the end of the first.
  • Pimply
    Pimply 17 October 2013 19: 44
    +2
    Quote: Spade
    These are not "collateral victims", they are those who died in the blown-up houses. I will never believe that Sharon's "heroes" are so brainless that they did not think that civilians can hide from shooting on the street in their own homes.

    Of course. Will we count the civilian victims of the Chechen war? Or Afghan? Maybe we’ll look at the victims of Beslan or Nord-Ost from your point of view? Because if you look like this, then every soldier will be a criminal and a murderer.
    Do not judge for yourself, and let not you be judged.
    I’m not going to judge personally. Only for some reason, the Israeli army, adhering to perhaps the most stringent code regarding civilians, is very fond of judging here. Believe me, if you start judging, instead of a chip in someone else's eye, a log can be found in your own. And not one.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 17 October 2013 19: 56
      +5
      Let's try to find a similar punitive operation in the history of the Russian Army. For example: the RA battalion crossed the Georgian-Russian border in the Kodori Valley and, in revenge for helping Chechen fighters, blew up the most prosperous houses in one of the large villages of 42. And school. Together with 69 residents. At the same time, the battalion destroyed the post of the Georgian police, with 50% losses from the enemy. This is so as not to interfere calmly punish.
      1. atalef
        atalef 17 October 2013 20: 04
        0
        Quote: Spade
        Let's try to find a similar punitive operation in the history of the Russian Army.

        As an example. some Chechens. Crimean Tatars. Ingush. Lithuanians. Ukrainians helped the Nazis, what happened to these peoples? What is the name of a general eviction operation? More than 30% of children, the elderly died. women. What was that ? The punishment of the leaders of the terrorists (with the bombings of houses, but without victims) or as in Ingushetia or the Crimea - they left the house, only the people disappeared.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 17 October 2013 20: 09
          +3
          The name of the village where the Russian or Soviet army blew up houses together with the residents, do not indicate? Let's be specific, not democratic demagogy about "what happened to these peoples"

          Well, for example: explosions in the Moscow metro under the USSR. Carried out by the Armenians. In which Armenian village houses were blown up together with their residents in retaliation for this attack.
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 17 October 2013 20: 48
            -1
            Quote: Spade
            Well, for example: explosions in the Moscow metro under the USSR. Carried out by the Armenians. In which Armenian village houses were blown up together with their residents in retaliation for this attack.

            You compare a single act and systematic events. When events were systematic - for example, the post-war years in the Baltic states and Ukraine - there were houses destroyed and people evicted. You do not know? If more than a dozen such terrorist attacks had accumulated over the year, and even with the active support of the Armenian SSR, then what do you think, how calmly would the Armenians feel?
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 17 October 2013 20: 57
              +2
              I make the task easier. Systematic punitive expeditions in the history of Armenia cannot be found.
            2. Pimply
              Pimply 17 October 2013 21: 17
              +1
              Quote: Spade
              I make the task easier. Systematic punitive expeditions in the history of Armenia cannot be found.

              That's right, they are called by the beautiful name of "stripping".
            3. Lopatov
              Lopatov 17 October 2013 21: 32
              +2
              Many things are called by the beautiful name "cleaning".
              In fact, this is an ordinary total scam with a passport check. Most of the households were ransacking "troikas" from conscripts, at suspicious addresses - riot policemen or FSB officers.

              The army, in common parlance, "federals" heroically snoozed on the blocks around the village, pretending to be "blocking". Your humble servant openly toiled among the heroic colonels and majors of the BB, posing as a spotter.

              Then the FSIN avtosaki with a mega-cool spetsnaz arrived, and suspicious persons were loaded into them. On the way out, Chechen aunts blocked their path, but avtozaki heroically defended again the Voviks at the cost of people who had spread manicure, who then greased them with aybolite.

              This is the standard "cleanup" with which our "human rights activists" scare children and the European community.
          2. Aaron Zawi
            Aaron Zawi 17 October 2013 21: 28
            +1
            Quote: Spade
            I make the task easier. Systematic punitive expeditions in the history of Armenia cannot be found.

            For what period of its history?
          3. Revolver
            Revolver 18 October 2013 03: 00
            +2
            Quote: Spade
            Systematic punitive expeditions in the history of Armenia cannot be found.
            Well, at least the "exploits" of Tukhachevsky near Tambov. They say that Saddam Hussein was the first to use poisonous substances against his civilian population, but in fact, Tukhachevsky has priority. So he may not be guilty of what he was shot for, but he honestly earned the execution before that.
            Or the Red Army to the RA no side?
          4. Lopatov
            Lopatov 18 October 2013 09: 46
            0
            Are you sure that Tukhachevsky commanded units of the Russian Army?
          5. Revolver
            Revolver 18 October 2013 11: 14
            0
            Quote: Spade
            Are you sure that Tukhachevsky commanded units of the Russian Army?
            Well, whose else? Not German. And if you think that the Red Army does not have a relationship with the Russian Army, then in this case the victory over Nazi Germany does not belong to it either. No, have the courage to admit that Russia owns both glorious pages of history and shameful ones too.
            Цитата: http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A2%D0%B0%D0%BC%D0%B1%D0%BE%D0%B2%D1%81%D0%BA%D0
            %BE%D0%B5_%D0%B2%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B5_%281920%E2%80%9
            41921% 29

            On April 27, 1921, the Politburo of the Central Committee of the RCP (B.) Appointed M.N. Tukhachevsky as commander of the troops of the Tambov province, I.P. Uborevich as his deputy, and N.E. Kakurina as chief of staff. G.I.Kotovsky was also sent to the Tambov region, G.G. Yagoda and V.V. Ulrich were sent from the Cheka. Tukhachevsky received a directive - to liquidate the Tambov uprising no later than within a month.
  • Pimply
    Pimply 17 October 2013 20: 43
    +3
    Quote: Spade
    Let's try to find a similar punitive operation in the history of the Russian Army. For example: the RA battalion crossed the Georgian-Russian border in the Kodori Valley and, in revenge for helping Chechen fighters, blew up the most prosperous houses in one of the large villages of 42. And school. Together with 69 residents. At the same time, the battalion destroyed the post of the Georgian police, with 50% losses from the enemy. This is so as not to interfere calmly punish.

    Shovels, you know, I can remember. And not just one war. And you know very well that if I prove something - I argue with reasonably detailed and authoritative sources. Sorry, I won’t go into this mess: you’ll start to prove to me that this is all not true, although you know perfectly well what happens in a war. So I'm sorry - not this time.
    1. roial
      17 October 2013 20: 54
      +1
      Patchy, do not bother, I do not remember officially recognized such facts, but if you bring this comrade information provided by the injured party, he will immediately yell that this is a lie and the machinations of world Zionism.
    2. Day 11
      Day 11 17 October 2013 20: 58
      0
      You see, Eugene. You do not want to discuss this topic, I understand YOU. But people here are not framers. Moreover, there are a lot of those who have not registered, but you read the conclusion yourself.
    3. Lopatov
      Lopatov 17 October 2013 21: 01
      +1
      So go ahead, what's the problem?
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 17 October 2013 21: 32
        +3
        Quote: Spade
        So go ahead, what's the problem?

        The problem is that you are trying to think in double standards. And I still remember what is good and what is bad.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 17 October 2013 21: 41
          +2
          I have never suffered from these "double standards". Budanov screwed up? I screwed up. He was punished for this by a Russian military court.
        2. Pimply
          Pimply 17 October 2013 21: 45
          +1
          Quote: Spade
          I have never suffered from these "double standards". Budanov screwed up? I screwed up. He was punished for this by a Russian military court.

          Remember many cases like Budanovsky? In terms of punishment.
          Do not try to play me a circus, be affectionate. I have not one or two close friends passed through Chechnya.
        3. Lopatov
          Lopatov 17 October 2013 21: 56
          +1
          And what, Budanov, on the orders of his superiors, blew up the house together with the residents as a "retaliation action"? He just got in the wrong place and killed who knows who.

          Quote: Pimply
          I have not one or two close friends passed through Chechnya.

          Well, once again I advise you to remove noodles from your ears more often in the process of listening to their heroic tales. Better yet, ask what the percentage of combat losses was. If you do not admit that nine out of ten victims — careless handling of weapons and ammunition or undermining on their stretch marks — feel free to call them balabol.
    4. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 17 October 2013 22: 43
      -1
      Quote: Pimply
      And I still remember what is good and what is bad.

      For a nomad, it’s good when the raid was a success, but bad when they caught up. Everything is relative in this world.
  • atalef
    atalef 17 October 2013 22: 04
    +2
    Quote: Spade
    So go ahead, what's the problem?

    Yes, no problem. go back to the article (from 7.09.13) and read the comments - this is one of them highlighted the quote, the person who fought in Chechnya

    atalef IL Today, 19:56 | American Moloch. What will turn out a blow to Syria for Russia
    Quote: largus886
    As our brigade commander in Chechnya said, "The first shot at the infantry from the village, 15 minutes of artillery battalion fire at the village."
    The conversation was (as I understand it) about a Russian village (Chechnya seems to be part of Russia) populated by civilians and the same. It is strange after that to hear indignant comments about Israel’s retaliatory measures towards Gaza (which is not a part of Israel) and Israel long abandoned. What hypocrisy (well, this retreat is not related to the general theme)
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 17 October 2013 22: 28
      +2
      Threaten - threatened. And artillery divisions, and "Shilkami". But I don't remember any real shooting cases. I’m an artilleryman, I know very well when and where our artillery battalion fired.

      Usually their elders themselves went to meet the columns to agree on a peaceful neighborhood. Then they were warned of sanctions.
    2. atalef
      atalef 18 October 2013 08: 41
      0
      Quote: Spade
      Threaten - threatened. And artillery divisions, and "Shilkami". But I don't remember any real shooting cases. I’m an artilleryman, I know very well when and where our artillery battalion fired.

      Usually their elders themselves went to meet the columns to agree on a peaceful neighborhood. Then they were warned of sanctions.

      Just do not need fairy tales. Your art division was not alone in Chechnya and can you answer for all? I know the mentality of the Arabs very well, the Chechens have not gone far from them, and in many ways are much cooler. You won’t scare them with any sanctions without applying these sanctions (at least 2-3 times). Arabs will not be Arabs or Chechens. if they do not take your word for it.
      Therefore, excuse me, I still believe more comments, where he writes that they shot, and you yourself know that they shot. I saw more than once on TV stripping that in Pervomaisky. what in Vedeno, tell me what the tanks and the Serpent of Gorynych did there, and whom did they fire there?
    3. Lopatov
      Lopatov 18 October 2013 10: 02
      0
      Quote: atalef
      Just do not need fairy tales.

      I don’t need fairy tales. If you are sure that you used, indicate the locality where this happened.
      Let's remember the Budanov case. We also warned the Tangi-Chu elders about the sanctions, so what? Did he use his own artillery battalion against them? No. Did he use his anti-aircraft gunners on them, an awl battery? No. Could he have rolled this village stone by stone with the help of a tank battalion, which, in fact, was fired upon? I could. But he didn't. So what? Where are these "retaliation actions"? You ask this simple question to the balabol who wrote the comment that you believe: where did it happen specifically.

      Quote: atalef
      I saw more than once on TV stripping that in Pervomaisk. what's in vedeno

      This is not stripping, this is fighting. In urban environments. With militants, not civilians. And in the course of these battles any available means were used. But at the same time they sought to minimize the associated losses. In the same Komsomolsky they released peace for more than a day, knowing that thereby we give the militants the opportunity to prepare better.
  • Ruslan_F38
    Ruslan_F38 17 October 2013 21: 52
    +1
    Quote: Pimply
    Only for some reason, the Israeli army, adhering to perhaps the most stringent code regarding civilians, is very fond of being judged here. Believe me, if you start judging, instead of a chip in someone else's eye, a log can be found in your own. And not one.

    Deir Yassin is an Arab settlement in Palestine, a modern suburb of Jerusalem. On April 9, 1948, this settlement was almost completely cut out by a detachment of Jewish terrorists from the Irgun organization. The squad leader was Menachem Begin, the future president of Israel.
    Almost the entire population was killed - 253 people, with pregnant women ripping open their bellies, babies smashing their heads on fences and walls of houses. They wanted to kill everyone without exception, but the Jews intervened - religious fundamentalists from a neighboring village. They came and began to shout to the Zionists that they were criminals and murderers. Therefore, not everyone was killed, the surviving Arabs were "just" loaded onto trucks, and then taken to the Arab quarter of Jerusalem. Religious Jewish fundamentalists did not allow them to be shot outside the village, thanks to them.
    The village was razed to the ground. Now there is a suburb of Jerusalem.
    Since then, Deir Yasin is a gloomy symbol, like Babi Yar, Auschwitz or Katyn. That is, of course, with a certain arrangement of brains you can remember only Babi Yar, but completely forget about Deir Yasin ... But this is a completely different question, what exactly does this or that person remember.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 17 October 2013 21: 59
      +2
      Quote: Ruslan_F38
      Deir Yasin

      This jamb is not the Israeli army, it is the work of the gang, later dispersed by the Israeli authorities.
    2. Aaron Zawi
      Aaron Zawi 17 October 2013 22: 04
      +1
      Well, again, unproven tales. There was an assault on the village of Deir Yassin during the assault, many civilians died. It is a fact. Everything else is like stories about the action of the SA in Hungary in 56.
    3. Pimply
      Pimply 18 October 2013 18: 03
      0
      Quote: Ruslan_F38
      Almost the entire population was killed - 253 people, with pregnant women ripping open their bellies, babies smashing their heads on fences and walls of houses. They wanted to kill everyone without exception, but the Jews intervened - religious fundamentalists from a neighboring village. They came and began to shout to the Zionists that they were criminals and murderers. Therefore, not everyone was killed, the surviving Arabs were "just" loaded onto trucks, and then taken to the Arab quarter of Jerusalem. Religious Jewish fundamentalists did not allow them to be shot outside the village, thanks to them.

      Find official documented evidence?
      Sharif Kanyana of the Palestinian University, Bir Zait, interviewed survivors and published data in 1988 that are currently recognized by the scientific community as authoritative: 107 people died, 12 wounded. Israeli historian Uri Milstein (very right-wing views) calls the number 110 killed maximum.
      The units of the attackers suffered the loss of 5 people killed and 50 people wounded.

      Hassan Nuseyba, who was an Arabic-language news editor in 1948 for a British radio station in Palestine, told the BBC television station about the situation in Deir Yassin. He said that he had asked Hussouin Khaledi (Secretary of the Higher Attestation Commission) how he would cover the story in Deir Yassin, to which Khaledi replied: “We need to make the most of it.” Therefore, Nuseyba and reported on the radio about the killing of children and rape of pregnant women in Deir Yassin. In the same broadcast, one of the villagers, Abu Mahmoud, said that the residents then protested: “We told them that there were no rapes.” Khalidi answered them: "We need this so that the Arab armies come and save us from the Jews."
  • Ingvar 72
    Ingvar 72 17 October 2013 22: 35
    0
    Quote: Pimply
    Only for some reason, the Israeli army, adhering to perhaps the most stringent code regarding civilians

    Well, you yourself have named the reasons ...
  • Ingvar 72
    Ingvar 72 17 October 2013 19: 14
    +2
    Quote: Pimply
    You understand that in such a way you’ll blame Alpha’s fighters for the murder of the Nord-Ost hostages,

    This is a loss among their own population. What your so-called special forces did, fits the definition of war crimes and genocide.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 17 October 2013 19: 17
      +4
      Genocide is unlikely, war crime is unambiguous. In general, they have a very loyal attitude to their own VPs, at the level of "who does not happen to"
      1. Aaron Zawi
        Aaron Zawi 17 October 2013 19: 38
        +2
        In Afghanistan, during the capture of Dushman villages, did women and children die? If so, then throw the "war crimes" charge against the "Afghans". Or is it "unintentional loss".
      2. roial
        17 October 2013 19: 49
        +2
        What your so-called special forces did, fits the definition of war crimes and genocide.


        Such stories can be found in the cabinets of ALL special services of German, English, American, Jewish, Soviet and even Russian, so there is no need to approach this issue so one-sidedly.

        In the Georgian-Ossetian conflict, Ossetians burned down dozens of Georgian villages in full view of the full activity of Russian troops. There were residents in those houses ??? officially silent.

        SO IT DOESN'T NEED HERE TO DISCOVER THE DUAL STANDARDS POLICY.
        Do not be like geyropovtsev.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 17 October 2013 19: 57
          +1
          Well, find an analog, potassium weasel.
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 17 October 2013 20: 58
            -2
            Quote: Spade
            Well, find an analog, potassium weasel.

            Found, not even one. With evidence, not with one. With indications of names, units of witnesses, and so on. I was going to lay out. But I won’t. It makes no sense.
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 17 October 2013 21: 01
              +1
              So go ahead, what's the problem
    2. Pimply
      Pimply 17 October 2013 19: 48
      0
      Quote: Ingvar 72
      This is a loss among their own population. What your so-called special forces did, fits the definition of war crimes and genocide.

      In Afghanistan, are losses among its population also? Or in Georgia? Czech Republic, Hungary - Speaking of 50x-60x? Believe me, without really digging, you can find much more in the history of the Soviet or Russian army. Just like that, walking up the hill.
      But we will not do this. At least out of my respect for the Soviet and Russian army. I just leave you to boil in my own sauce. Enjoy it. 8)
  • Volkolak
    Volkolak 17 October 2013 14: 53
    +1
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    Of course, so much meat in Arab villages has been heaped up, expanding the boundaries of the "young state". After this, the German Sonderkommando are just children.

    They have heaped up all over the world, and now they are pretending to be victims.
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 17 October 2013 15: 47
      +1
      the professor was offended, and put me on a black list. wassat
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 17 October 2013 18: 58
        -3
        Is it possible and necessary to be offended by a person violating the law of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation? Meaning. He slowly offends himself.
  • Pimply
    Pimply 17 October 2013 18: 50
    0
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    Of course, so much meat in Arab villages has been heaped up, expanding the boundaries of the "young state". After this, the German Sonderkommando are just children.



    Please be more specific. For example, I know how many died in the conflict. I know the quantity, the approximate composition, I can even find the names.
    Please provide specific facts of the mass death of children and situations in comparison with which German sonderkommandy are like children. Such crimes are known? So, the dates, the approximate number of deaths, the situation are known.
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 17 October 2013 19: 30
      +1
      Quote: Pimply
      Please be more specific. For example, I know how many died in the conflict. I know the quantity, the approximate composition, I can even find the names.

      Well this is unlikely. Official statistics have always sinned with bias. Even with us. But the fact that the settlements of the Arabs were cut out without exception is a fact. Otherwise, how to explain the loss of entire Arab villages, and the emergence of kibbutzim in their place. What, the Arabs themselves sold the land, and then suddenly died? The usual postulate is that there are no witnesses; there is no crime.
      Quote: Pimply
      Is it possible and necessary to be offended by a person violating the law of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation?
      And in your style- Indicate which paragraph which article of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation I violated?
      1. Aaron Zawi
        Aaron Zawi 17 October 2013 19: 51
        +4
        Quote: Ingvar 72
        Quote: Pimply
        Please be more specific. For example, I know how many died in the conflict. I know the quantity, the approximate composition, I can even find the names.

        Well this is unlikely. Official statistics have always sinned with bias. Even with us. But the fact that the settlements of the Arabs were cut out without exception is a fact. Otherwise, how to explain the loss of entire Arab villages, and the emergence of kibbutzim in their place. What, the Arabs themselves sold the land, and then suddenly died? The usual postulate is that there are no witnesses; there is no crime.

        Interned and fled during the fighting. Otherwise, based on your words, we can conclude about the total destruction of the population of East Prussia. Otherwise, where did the state farms come from instead of the farm in the Kaliningrad region?
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Day 11
    Day 11 17 October 2013 14: 33
    +4
    What the hell is this? I give the person a plus or a total minus (or nothing). I will give a person a minus or no reaction! Is it democracy? Freedom of speech? And, exactly, it’s exactly the same media
    1. Essenger
      Essenger 17 October 2013 15: 08
      +1
      Quote: Den 11
      What the hell is this? I give the person a plus or a total minus (or nothing). I will give a person a minus or no reaction! Is it democracy? Freedom of speech? And, exactly, it’s exactly the same media

      welcome Denis
      Did not understand your thought
      1. Day 11
        Day 11 17 October 2013 15: 21
        +1
        Greetings! Yes, the thought is simple --- I agree with the person (and not one) who explains that Israel, the national state of it (the forum member) are beginning to spread rot, I agree with his thoughts (at least I try to support the plus) -...!Clear?
        1. Essenger
          Essenger 17 October 2013 16: 59
          +2
          Quote: Den 11
          Greetings! Yes, the thought is simple --- I agree with the person (and not one) who explains that Israel, the national state of it (the forum member) are beginning to spread rot, I agree with his thoughts (at least I try to support the plus) -...!Clear?

          Are you for discussion and against minus? So?
          1. Day 11
            Day 11 17 October 2013 17: 14
            +1
            I am always for a constructive discussion! Without emotions!
    2. The comment was deleted.
      1. Day 11
        Day 11 17 October 2013 15: 24
        +1
        Oh, I don’t like to communicate with a person without a name. Well, write your name in the cap or lie. And at least somehow address. Do not be offended, well, I don’t like communicating with "emptiness". Just a friendly advice. What are you all afraid of?
        1. Dober
          Dober 17 October 2013 15: 37
          -3
          Some know not only the name, but also the surname. Often turn. We correspond with someone through a personal email, with someone through a mailbox.
          There everything is written in the profile read carefully ... hi
          1. Day 11
            Day 11 17 October 2013 15: 43
            0
            Doberman Midav ???
            1. Dober
              Dober 17 October 2013 15: 53
              +2
              Only two letters are replaced in a surname. Consonants. Not the rarest, there are a couple of (slightly famous) actors (Chris, Matt, Helen), a couple of athletes, a couple of politicians and a couple of scientists. With a name, it’s so simple. Here on the site almost a dozen people with this. There is even such a thing that oh-oh-oh ... fellow
  • nazgul-ishe
    nazgul-ishe 17 October 2013 14: 46
    +1
    At one time, the NKVD was afraid not only inside the country but also those who fled beyond the hill. And now they buy islands on themselves for our money.
    A cognitive article, I look forward to continuing.
  • roial
    17 October 2013 14: 51
    +7

    Benjamin Netanyahu is a MATKAL fighter, current Prime Minister of Israel.


    Anatoly Serdyukov, General Director of Mebel-Market JSC, former Minister of Defense of Russia.
    1. Volkolak
      Volkolak 17 October 2013 15: 10
      +2
      Quote: roial
      Benjamin Netanyahu is a MATKAL fighter, current Prime Minister of Israel.

      The ideological connection of fascist Germany with Israel has been preserved to this day. It is no coincidence that Hitler’s book Mein Kampf, published in 1992 in Hebrew under the auspices of the Ministry of Education and Culture (!), Became a reference book for Hebrew-speaking youth ...
      The parties of Likud and Kadym, the parties of Begin, Jabotinsky, Shamir, Stern and other Nazis today rule Israel. A war criminal covered in blood from head to toe and the father of reprisals against the Russian-speaking minority in Israel, Ariel Sharon once told the world: “We rule America.” And the world was silent ...
      1. roial
        17 October 2013 15: 16
        +7
        Well, have you decided to set up a branch of the anti-Zion movement here ???

        What for? I myself do not like Jews, though I didn’t get in touch with them (probably in the subconscious mind), but I’m not going to arrange a rush on them here.

        All ways are good for the survival of the species.

        And stop posting all this garbage here, otherwise the novels will come and it will ban me again laughing
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 17 October 2013 15: 28
          +2
          Quote: roial
          What for? I myself do not like Jews, though I didn’t get in touch with them (probably in the subconscious mind), but I’m not going to arrange a rush on them here.

          Subconsciousness alone is not enough. You need to know the nature of their hatred of the rest of humanity. And the nature of many political processes will take on a true color.
        2. Volkolak
          Volkolak 17 October 2013 15: 33
          +3
          Quote: roial
          Well, have you decided to set up a branch of the anti-Zion movement here ???

          This is a defensive reaction to the information war that the guys with the Israeli flag staged here.
          Quote: roial
          And stop here all the garbage post

          This is not garbage, this is a statement of facts.

          PS
          And "Mein Kamph" in Hebrew is something! Don't you think? !! lol
          1. atalef
            atalef 17 October 2013 21: 39
            +2
            Quote: VOLKOLAK
            And "Mein Kamph" in Hebrew is something! Don't you think? !!

            Drop the link, (do not confuse the academic translation of part of the chapters for students studying the recent history of Germany) Show me a book in translation and free access - in Hebrew. Moreover, you and the company freely quote in the original both Shulchan Aruch and Torah with Tolmud. Therefore, you will not be difficult for me, I am sure. Fatty Trololo wassat

            Here in Russian, please
            http://www.loveread.ec/view_global.php?id=15176
            1. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 17 October 2013 23: 00
              +1
              Quote: atalef
              Here in Russian, please

              And Talmud weakly in bookstores on one shelf with the Koran and the Bible to lay out?
              1. Day 11
                Day 11 17 October 2013 23: 07
                +1
                You beat in a living! Rub for a hundred --- they will not answer
                1. Aaron Zawi
                  Aaron Zawi 18 October 2013 08: 36
                  0
                  Quote: Den 11
                  You beat in a living! Rub for a hundred --- they will not answer

                  The translations of the religious books of Judaism into Russian were made in the nineteenth century. If you are interested, contact either the nearest synagogue or the Central Russian Library. Well, you can still at Moscow State University. There seems to be a branch of Hebraistics.
              2. faraon
                faraon 18 October 2013 02: 55
                +2
                Why, and why. Compare these three books if the second world religion is Christian and the third Muslim. And they all have roots in Judaism.
                1. Alex 241
                  Alex 241 18 October 2013 03: 08
                  +1
                  The article is very interesting, both from a historical and from a military point of view, instead of a normal discussion of these aspects, Jews are again to blame.
              3. atalef
                atalef 18 October 2013 08: 47
                0
                Quote: Ingvar 72
                And Talmud weakly in bookstores on one shelf with the Koran and the Bible to lay out?

                In any Israeli bookstore (large), there are Torah and the Bible and the Koran - for sale. My son bought a Koran (for Arabic lessons), in an ordinary chain of bookstores - Stematsky.
            2. Revolver
              Revolver 18 October 2013 03: 34
              -1
              I read Mein Kampf in Russian on the famous site lib.rus.ec (do not look there, recently removed). Sensation - a mixture of sleeping pills and vomiting. With difficulty mastered. At least I'm not one of those like:
              Quote: E. Yevtushenko "Domestic koalas"
              "I have not read the novel, however
              I am extremely indignant with them "
        3. Dober
          Dober 17 October 2013 15: 43
          +3
          Quote: roial
          otherwise the novels will come

          And, so it was Romanov who contrived the "corporal" to beat as many as 5 warnings. Did you add it in bulk? Or issued in advance?

          And about the IDFs no more ... We understand, thanks! Very ambiguous attitude towards their acquired "experience".
          Let's talk about the Zulus ... good
        4. Volkolak
          Volkolak 17 October 2013 15: 55
          +3
          Quote: roial
          I myself do not like Jews

          It is your right.
          I have nothing for the Jews. I have complaints against Zionism and Zionist fascists, for whom ordinary people (and ordinary Jews) are worthless.
          You are behaving strangely, so are provocateurs (Zionist style). hi
          1. Essenger
            Essenger 17 October 2013 17: 03
            +3
            Quote: VOLKOLAK
            I have nothing for the Jews. I have a claim to Zionism

            And who are the Zionists? aliens?
            1. Volkolak
              Volkolak 17 October 2013 18: 37
              -3
              Quote: Essenger
              And who are the Zionists? aliens?

              Well, it's like the Germans and the Nazis. Jews are not all Zionists, and not all Jews are Jews. Here are the real Zionists - these are Jews, other Khabbadniks there, etc. There are Jewish Christians and professing Islam.
              1. Aaron Zawi
                Aaron Zawi 17 October 2013 18: 56
                +2
                Quote: VOLKOLAK

                Well, it's like the Germans and the Nazis. Jews are not all Zionists, and not all Jews are Jews. Here are the real Zionists, these are the Jews, the other there are Hubbadniks, etc. There are Jewish Christians and Muslims.

                I fell. laughing I have not read this yet. Yes, you are the greatest Hebraist in the history of mankind.
              2. Essenger
                Essenger 17 October 2013 19: 33
                +3
                Quote: VOLKOLAK
                Well, it's like the Germans and the Nazis.

                Hitler and his supporters were Nazis, and Mussolini and his minions were fascists. You will delve into the topic and then write.

                What is Zionism? This is the construction of a Jewish state.
              3. Pimply
                Pimply 17 October 2013 19: 50
                +3
                Chabadniks are far from always Zionists. There is even a Hasidic movement that denies present-day Israel.
                Jews cannot be Christians.
                Well, and apparently, you do not know who the Zionists are. Tell me
                1. Essenger
                  Essenger 17 October 2013 20: 18
                  +3
                  Quote: Pimply
                  There is even a Hasidic movement that denies present-day Israel.

                  Neturai map?
                  1. Pimply
                    Pimply 17 October 2013 21: 34
                    +1
                    Satmar Hasidim.
                    1. atalef
                      atalef 18 October 2013 08: 52
                      0
                      Quote: Pimply
                      Satmar Hasidim.

                      Yes, in general, all Orthodox believers are Jews that Litvaki. That Breslav, that the Bukhara-do not recognize Israel as a state (at the same time they receive wonderful allowances and benefits) from a state that they do not recognize.
                      1. Pimply
                        Pimply 18 October 2013 18: 05
                        0
                        Quote: atalef
                        Yes, in general, all Orthodox believers are Jews that Litvaki. That Breslav, that the Bukhara-do not recognize Israel as a state (at the same time they receive wonderful allowances and benefits) from a state that they do not recognize.

                        Recognize. And participate in his work. Another thing is that they believe that the state should be different.
        5. Essenger
          Essenger 17 October 2013 17: 01
          +3
          Quote: roial
          I myself don’t like Jews

          Who do not love yet? If it `s not a secret laughing
          1. roial
            17 October 2013 19: 24
            +1
            Milk and semolina am
            1. Essenger
              Essenger 17 October 2013 19: 48
              +1
              Quote: roial
              Milk and semolina

              not what, but whom? laughing
      2. Pimply
        Pimply 17 October 2013 19: 01
        0
        Quote: VOLKOLAK
        The ideological connection of fascist Germany with Israel has been preserved to this day. It is no coincidence that Hitler’s book Mein Kampf, published in 1992 in Hebrew under the auspices of the Ministry of Education and Culture (!), Became a reference book for Hebrew-speaking youth ...


        Link, specific example. And yes - you are violating the rules of the site.
      3. Rumata
        Rumata 17 October 2013 19: 58
        +1
        Quote: VOLKOLAK
        It was not by chance that Hitler’s book “Mein Kampf”, released in Hebrew in 1992 under the auspices of the Ministry of Education and Culture, became the reference book of Hebrew speaking youth ...

        Kindergarten...
  • Tan4ik
    Tan4ik 17 October 2013 15: 20
    0
    Why do many people negate the comment?
    I will give the answer: Jews are dissatisfied with the fact that they may not like them.
    I understand them
    And the army and medicine are generally well developed. There is much to learn.
    1. Day 11
      Day 11 17 October 2013 15: 35
      +4
      Borya, you killed us all
      1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 17 October 2013 15: 43
      +3
      Quote: Tan4ik
      I will give the answer: Jews are dissatisfied with the fact that they may not like them.
      I understand them

      And why should I love them? Love, like hate, has its own argument. For my homeland, they have done dozens, and maybe hundreds of times more, bad than good. But I don’t hate them, I just don’t like them, I have no reason for love. And how they act in relation to other peoples, few people will like it. And I doubt your understanding, if you were a resident of Palestine, you would have a different opinion. And Jews forgive me for such blasphemy, I do not consider the Palestinians to be terrorists, they are conducting a guerrilla war on their own land, illegally occupied by the invaders.
      1. Katsin1
        Katsin1 17 October 2013 17: 24
        +4
        The attack in the settlement of Itamar (Hebrew. הפיגוע בישוב איתמר) - a terrorist attack committed on the night of March 12, 2011 in a settlement in central Samaria. Two Arab terrorists [1] killed Udi (37 years old) and Ruth Vogel (36), and their children: Joab (11 years old), Elada (4 years old) and Adas (3 months old). Three more of their children (12, 8 and 2 years old) managed to escape. THE ATTACK DONE by 2 young Arabs, leaving home after the murder, they heard the crying unnoticed before the 2 month old baby, returned and killed him. IS IT PARTISANS?
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. Lech from our city
            Lech from our city 17 October 2013 20: 02
            +4
            I have always said and say I can’t kill civilians (women, children, the elderly, this should be a taboo for fighting), it is impossible to justify the killing of small children with any beautiful slogans and ideas.
            I consider a Chechen, Palestinian, Jewish or Russian terrorist to be one under the name EVIL, and I condemn them and their methods, I think they should be fought with in the most merciless way.
            1. Pimply
              Pimply 17 October 2013 21: 06
              +3
              Quote: Lech from our city
              I have always said and say I can’t kill civilians (women, children, the elderly, this should be a taboo for fighting), it is impossible to justify the killing of small children with any beautiful slogans and ideas.
              I consider a Chechen, Palestinian, Jewish or Russian terrorist to be one under the name EVIL, and I condemn them and their methods, I think they should be fought with in the most merciless way.

              The question is that there is no understanding of what terrorism is for the majority.
              1. Thunderbolt
                Thunderbolt 17 October 2013 21: 23
                +2
                A terrorist is not as terrible as his sponsor. Nuclear whales in buried mines vigilantly keep peace in the whole world, but it’s necessary to fight. Here a monster appears on the scene (even worse, but there are no such words, because they kill children) in black mask with Kalash at the ready. Disgusting picture, but decisions are made in the soft chairs of quiet rooms.
        2. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 17 October 2013 23: 07
          +1
          Quote: Katsin1
          THE ATTACK DONE by 2 young Arabs, leaving home after the murder, they heard the crying unnoticed before the 2 month old baby, returned and killed him. IS IT PARTISANS?

          Thugs are everywhere. I am talking about patterns, not about exceptions. And a sowing wind will reap a storm.
          1. Katsin1
            Katsin1 18 October 2013 00: 55
            +2
            Let's say they were scumbags. But they are affixed by the official Palestinian propaganda for this "feat", and the Palestinian Authority pays benefits to the families of the "heroes"
    3. Dober
      Dober 17 October 2013 15: 47
      +2
      Quote: Tan4ik
      There is something to learn.

      And they have the same treatment. This is not the goal.

      "In our today's Germany, which calls itself a democratic country, disabled children are allowed, whose degree of disability is still impossible to determine, to kill in the womb until the moment of birth. So what is the difference with Hitler? And even worse, we have already for decades healthy children are killed in the womb.
      Millions of German children are not allowed to be born, they are simply 'disposed of', and thus a demographic catastrophe is carried out, leading to the self-destruction of Germany. "

      Gerda Wittun. 22297 Hamburg, Brabandstr. 25A, Open Letter
      Federal Chancellor
      Dr. Angela Merkel
      Willie Brands 1
      10557 Berlin
      July 11, 2013 /
      1. patrianostra
        patrianostra 17 October 2013 19: 41
        +1
        So this law, even with a peasant with a bang, was kind of accepted and that dosihpor works beautifully belay wassat
  • roial
    17 October 2013 16: 08
    0
    In Israel, they never award generals - only soldiers and officers who perform their military duty directly on the battlefield are awarded military awards.

    In Israel, the children and grandchildren of senior officers have exactly the same chances of becoming later generals and admirals, like the offspring of ordinary citizens. However, there is a tradition from generation to generation to go to combat units, realizing all the difficulties and dangers that are associated with this service.

    During the performance of military duty, among many others, they died in different years: Major Yoram Eitan - the son of the Chief of the General Staff, General Rafael Eitan, captain Gil Ivri - the son of the Air Force Commander General David Ivry, Private David Shprintsak - the son of the Knesset Chairman Josef Shprintsak, captain David Tamir - the son Justice Minister Shmuel Tamir, Captain Jonathan Begin - son of Minister Beni Begin and grandson of Prime Minister Menachem Begin.
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 17 October 2013 16: 20
      12
      During the war in Chechnya in the 1994-1996 years the sons died:
      Lieutenant General ANOSHIN Gennady Yakovlevich;
      Major General NALETOV Gennady Afanasevich;
      Lieutenant General SUSLOV Vyacheslav Fedorovich;
      Lieutenant General of PULIKOVSKY Konstantin Borisovich;
      Major General Anatoly Mikhailovich FILIPENK;
      Major General of Aviation Anatoly Chigashov;
      Colonel General Shpak Georgy Ivanovich.
      Lieutenant General SCHEPINA Yuri.
      In 1999, the son of Lieutenant General SOLOMATIN Viktor Alexandrovich was killed in Chechnya.

      I don’t understand your position. They considered aliens, but forgotten theirs. Some kind of pathological semitophilia in you.
      1. Volkolak
        Volkolak 17 October 2013 16: 28
        +1
        Quote: Ingvar 72
        Some kind of pathological semitophilia in you.

        good
      2. Essenger
        Essenger 17 October 2013 17: 05
        +9
        Worthy sons of their homeland.

        Quote: Ingvar 72
        During the war in Chechnya in the 1994-1996 years the sons died:
        Lieutenant General ANOSHIN Gennady Yakovlevich;
        Major General NALETOV Gennady Afanasevich;
        Lieutenant General SUSLOV Vyacheslav Fedorovich;
        Lieutenant General of PULIKOVSKY Konstantin Borisovich;
        Major General Anatoly Mikhailovich FILIPENK;
        Major General of Aviation Anatoly Chigashov;
        Colonel General Shpak Georgy Ivanovich.
        Lieutenant General SCHEPINA Yuri.
        In 1999, the son of Lieutenant General SOLOMATIN Viktor Alexandrovich was killed in Chechnya.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  • Tan4ik
    Tan4ik 17 October 2013 17: 01
    +4
    Sorry guys, I froze garbage)
  • roma2
    roma2 17 October 2013 17: 03
    +3
    Worthy sons grow up in normal fathers, it was striking that:

    Quote: roial
    In Israel, they never award generals - only soldiers and officers who perform their military duty directly on the battlefield are awarded military awards.
  • Aaron Zawi
    Aaron Zawi 17 October 2013 17: 27
    +3
    I liked the article. All is correct. No supermen and invincible heroes. Ordinary special forces created in combat conditions and passed to the present level due to great combat experience, significant losses and natural selection of the best from operation to operation, both truncated and failed.
    As for the discussion, I also liked it. Moreover, the efforts of Doberman to expose Zionism are especially impressive. All the same, a person reads books. lol
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 17 October 2013 21: 03
      +2
      Quote: Aaron Zawi
      I liked the article. All is correct. No supermen and invincible heroes. Ordinary special forces created in combat conditions and passed to the present level due to great combat experience, significant losses and natural selection of the best from operation to operation, both truncated and failed.
      As for the discussion, I also liked it. Moreover, the efforts of Doberman to expose Zionism are especially impressive. All the same, a person reads books. lol

      hi + regarding the attitude to special forces. And among the books I read, I especially liked Rabbi Eduard Hodos.
      1. Aaron Zawi
        Aaron Zawi 17 October 2013 21: 33
        +3
        Quote: Ingvar 72

        hi + regarding the attitude to special forces. And among the books I read, I especially liked Rabbi Eduard Hodos.

        Rabbi? What yeshiva did he study in? Where did he get Tor Rabbani? He is the same rabbi as you are a parish priest.
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 17 October 2013 23: 12
          +1
          Quote: Aron Zaavi
          Rabbi? What yeshiva did he study in? Where did he get Tor Rabbani?

          Rabbi is the same as Father. And he had his own parish.
          1. Aaron Zawi
            Aaron Zawi 18 October 2013 08: 39
            0
            Quote: Ingvar 72

            Rabbi is the same as Father. And he had his own parish.

            Well yes. Sect type parish.
            1. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 18 October 2013 09: 58
              0
              In Judaism there are no less directions than in Christianity. And each of them claims to be exceptional. And considers the others sects.
          2. atalef
            atalef 18 October 2013 08: 57
            0
            Quote: Ingvar 72
            Rabbi is the same as Father. And he had his own coming

            Well, this is how he proclaimed himself a father and created a parish.
            They will pass an exam for a rabbi and study for a long, long time. So the question is where did he study? When did you pass the exam? Check is not difficult, everything is on the Internet. Only name the year and place.
            1. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 18 October 2013 10: 04
              0
              Quote: atalef
              Well, this is how he proclaimed himself a father and created a parish.

              Well, Christ, too, once proclaimed himself the messiah, and even Christianity itself, even several years after the death of Christ, was considered one of the Jewish sects. Canons in religion are a very relative concept.
  • Katsin1
    Katsin1 17 October 2013 17: 37
    0
    And as an officer in combat units many times had to be under a hail of stones, you can’t open fire, maximum rubber bullets ... Although the Ghoul and Doberman (after all, they drove the eloquent ones) they still won’t believe me ...
    1. Day 11
      Day 11 17 October 2013 17: 44
      0
      Wow! Directly shot? Bullets? I dispersed, I hope, kids?
      1. Dezzed
        Dezzed 17 October 2013 23: 17
        +2
        why so cynical?
        maybe in Afghanistan or in the terrible "kids" also ran. and between the "kids" an adult uncle got in between the soldier once and made a headache about 7.62 in diameter at the entrance.

        I didn’t notice on your part the searches and mourning of the innocent victims of the Russian soldiers ... or weren't there?
    2. Volkolak
      Volkolak 17 October 2013 18: 42
      -3
      Quote: Katsin1
      And as an officer in combat units many times had to be under a hail of stones,

      Yeah in a tank, helmet and body armor, with a gun and a machine gun, against children with stones. Well, you are our warrior laughing
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 17 October 2013 20: 13
        +3
        Quote: VOLKOLAK
        Yeah in a tank, helmet and body armor, with a gun and a machine gun, against children with stones. Well, you are our warrior

        Have you ever gone out with a four against a crowd of 400 people with kilogram blocks with a ban on the use of firearms? A stone thrown by a sling is a weapon that was killed in ancient times. He is capable of it now. Broken arms-legs-jaws - children with pebbles. And they throw pebbles because the children look beautiful in the photo and there is no danger of getting a bullet.
        1. Katsin1
          Katsin1 18 October 2013 01: 52
          +3
          I have a scar from a wound on my knee after a stone hit. But they will not check anyway that we cannot shoot. But Palestinian overgrowth knows it too well.
    3. Doberman
      Doberman 18 October 2013 02: 40
      0
      Do you want "POZ in" to take?
      Rubber ... It wasn’t bullets ... Pull one in the back ...
      Then we will believe.
    4. Revolver
      Revolver 18 October 2013 03: 49
      0
      Quote: Katsin1
      maximum rubber bullets ... Although Ghoul with Doberman

      Rubber bullets have no effect on ghouls. If you believe the legends, then you need to shoot silver. Although I think the "silvertip" bullets will do the trick too. bully
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Day 11
    Day 11 17 October 2013 19: 36
    +2
    I understand that there will be no normal discussion?
    1. Rumata
      Rumata 17 October 2013 20: 10
      +4
      Quote: Den 11
      I understand that there will be no normal discussion?

      And when was she? Soon, the rest of the xenophobes will catch up, and the second part of the Marleson ballet will begin ...
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 17 October 2013 23: 17
        0
        Quote: Rumata
        And when was she? Soon the rest of the xenophobes will catch up, and the second part of the Marleson ballet will begin

        Well, even I will put you + for the answer. Nevertheless, the discussion involves the recognition of errors, and here you have a solid unconscious. laughing
        1. Rumata
          Rumata 18 October 2013 00: 09
          +2
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          Well, even I will put you + for the answer. Nevertheless, the discussion involves the recognition of errors, and you have here a solid unconscious

          Well, for example, I do not agree with the opinion of Lopatov above, but my language does not rise to call him a xenophobe or an anti-Semite. A person expresses his opinion, has the right, Shulkhan Arukh does not quote, does not tell fables about "goyim and dogs". Bumpy expressed an opinion with which I agree, someone will take the other side, everything is more or less civil. Or did you expect everyone to start sprinkling ashes on their heads and repenting for the "sins" of 65 years ago?
      2. In the reeds
        In the reeds 18 October 2013 02: 54
        0
        Hope dies last. There have always been decent people in Russia. Get out, for his komenty, the owner broke his mouth.
    2. Pimply
      Pimply 17 October 2013 21: 08
      0
      Will be, if there are normal questions.
  • densh
    densh 17 October 2013 20: 24
    +3
    I do not like Zionism. But with respect I treat ordinary citizens of Israel, believe me, there is a reason.
    By the way, the doctor who operated on me was a Jew, why should I hate him?
    1. Rumata
      Rumata 17 October 2013 21: 55
      +1
      Quote: densh
      By the way, the doctor who operated on me was a Jew, why should I hate him?

      If you want to hate, there is a reason. commentators above, this is proof, Internet fighters with ZOG are tearing off all the covers today, Ingvar has another attack of clinical graphomania, he needs to be treated and he ... = (
      1. densh
        densh 17 October 2013 23: 06
        +1
        Room Rangers negative
      2. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 17 October 2013 23: 20
        0
        Quote: Rumata
        Ingvar generally has another attack of clinical graphomania, he needs to be treated and he ... = (

        There is not enough money for an expensive treatment. Take for free? laughing
        1. Rumata
          Rumata 17 October 2013 23: 56
          0
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          There is not enough money for an expensive treatment. Take for free?

          Since this is practically not treated, we will take as a patient an experimental and untested treatment technique. The first step, chop off the Internet, go to the taiga for a month. After please send a detailed report
        2. Pimply
          Pimply 18 October 2013 18: 10
          -1
          Quote: Ingvar 72

          There is not enough money for an expensive treatment. Take for free?

          The line for humanitarian treatment is quite long. Are you any different from the people who stand in it?
    2. Dezzed
      Dezzed 17 October 2013 23: 11
      0
      sorry for the question, do you know that this is "Zionism" which you "do not like"?


      Zionism (Hebrew צִיּוֹנוּת, otsionut - from the name of Mount Zion in Jerusalem) is a political movement whose purpose is to unite and revive the Jewish people in their historical homeland - in Israel (Eretz Israel),
      1. Day 11
        Day 11 17 October 2013 23: 22
        +3
        Yes, probably for you this is so. For us, this word takes on a slightly different meaning (broader, or what). A smart person will understand
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 17 October 2013 23: 27
          +4
          Quote: Den 11
          Yes, this is probably true for you. For us, this word takes on a slightly different meaning

          This is an atavism. Soviet propaganda worked somewhat sloppy, and often used terms completely inadequately. Zionism is Zionism and nothing else. Moreover, anyone who says to a Jew "suitcase-train station-Israel" is in fact a Zionist.
          1. densh
            densh 17 October 2013 23: 37
            0
            Suggest a term in return.
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 17 October 2013 23: 42
              +3
              What for? I don’t have the strong feeling that a couple of ZOG agents were hiding under my bed. Let fans of conspiracy theories invent the terms themselves.
    3. Revolver
      Revolver 18 October 2013 03: 57
      -3
      Quote: densh
      I do not like Zionism. But with respect I treat ordinary citizens of Israel
      So Zionism is, in particular, the desire of the citizens of Israel to live in their country, as calmly as possible. But the region is not the most calm, so they have to "calm down" their neighbors from time to time. In general, read about Zionism, well, at least an article on Wikipedia, you may understand that you have a somewhat misunderstanding of this term.
      http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D0%B8%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B7%D0%BC
  • ed65b
    ed65b 17 October 2013 21: 47
    +2
    Great article delivered a big plus. informative and interesting. I look forward to continuing. As for the comments here, as always, Jewish friends take everything to heart and, accordingly, "get pissed off", but in vain. You have a lot to be proud of. hi Accordingly, like us.
    1. Day 11
      Day 11 17 October 2013 22: 09
      -1
      Did they bring a lot of happiness to you (our country)? Are you from Gazprom? Or are you connected with oil? Shame on you ...
    2. Revolver
      Revolver 18 October 2013 04: 00
      0
      Quote: ed65b
      Great article put a big plus. informative and interesting. I look forward to continuing.

      And you are a big plus from me.
  • roial
    17 October 2013 22: 07
    +1
    Wow, what hatred for everything that’s not Russian.
    Ukrainians are being persecuted on a nearby branch, stubbornly proving that their choice is Russia, Jews are here - blaming them for all the troubles and mischiefs of the Russian people, I recently saw how they poisoned Kazakhs (I don’t remember for what, the difference is only for what I expressed opinion that goes against the opinion of local trolls).
    With such an attitude towards other nationalities, I would not be surprised if Russia gets involved in yet another "constitutional order"
    1. Katsin1
      Katsin1 18 October 2013 00: 32
      -2
      So they are only against weak heroes, against Georgia or Ukraine ...
      1. Day 11
        Day 11 18 October 2013 00: 41
        +2
        And in order to prove the opposite to you, who do you think we should defeat? USA? Or you? Do you have such a desire?
        1. Katsin1
          Katsin1 18 October 2013 00: 48
          0
          No sane person has such a desire. There was still no clash between the nuclear powers. Do you have no temperature for an hour?
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 18 October 2013 00: 52
            +1
            And you?

            By the way, you powerfully printed Ukraine, they may be offended
  • The comment was deleted.
  • faraon
    faraon 18 October 2013 01: 27
    +2
    Quote: Dober
    The Avengers was a strictly classified paramilitary structure that calculated the Nazis who quietly returned to civilian life, and then kidnapped and destroyed them.

    And what do you think the Jews should have done? When the genocide of the Jews was adopted by German policy and set itself the goal of exterminating an entire people, when people were brought to camps and sent immediately to the gas chambers, and then to the crematorium, they were sent indiscriminately. Or do you think Was the Soviet soldier a little more humane? I doubt it. When Bellarusia was almost all burned by the Nazis, only one memorial complex to the inhabitants of Khatyn tells you nothing. And the slogan "We will not forget, we will not forgive" is not from the USSR. So what can be expected from the people, the destruction of which was put on an industrial basis.
  • faraon
    faraon 18 October 2013 01: 28
    0
    Quote: Dober
    The Avengers was a strictly classified paramilitary structure that calculated the Nazis who quietly returned to civilian life, and then kidnapped and destroyed them.

    And what do you think the Jews should have done? When the genocide of the Jews was adopted by German policy and set itself the goal of exterminating an entire people, when people were brought to camps and sent immediately to the gas chambers, and then to the crematorium, they were sent indiscriminately. Or do you think Was the Soviet soldier a little more humane? I doubt it. When Bellarusia was almost all burned by the Nazis, only one memorial complex to the inhabitants of Khatyn tells you nothing. And the slogan "We will not forget, we will not forgive" is not from the USSR. So what can be expected from the people, the destruction of which was put on an industrial basis.
    as for the avengers, they were not gangs, they were volunteers who took a training course and were in special units of Hagan, and later the IDF.
    I think evil should be punished
  • faraon
    faraon 18 October 2013 01: 42
    +3
    Quote: Den 11
    Don’t force your comrades from Israel (and those from this people) to become rude! Do you have something to answer? Only quietly minusanut.You are not stupid, try to enter into a civilized dispute with the RUSSIAN (and other close to us) peoples (though -by on this forum)


    So no one is against normal communication, with the exception of a few comrades with the flag of Russia, who, in the absence of arguments, begin to be rude and rude.
  • In the reeds
    In the reeds 18 October 2013 01: 48
    0
    Quote: VOLKOLAK
    Quote: roial
    Benjamin Netanyahu is a MATKAL fighter, current Prime Minister of Israel.

    The ideological connection of fascist Germany with Israel has been preserved to this day. It is no coincidence that Hitler’s book Mein Kampf, published in 1992 in Hebrew under the auspices of the Ministry of Education and Culture (!), Became a reference book for Hebrew-speaking youth ...
    The parties of Likud and Kadym, the parties of Begin, Jabotinsky, Shamir, Stern and other Nazis today rule Israel. A war criminal covered in blood from head to toe and the father of reprisals against the Russian-speaking minority in Israel, Ariel Sharon once told the world: “We rule America.” And the world was silent ...

    “If the world hates you, know that he hated me before you” (John 15:18).
    1. Maximus-xnumx
      Maximus-xnumx 19 October 2013 07: 50
      0
      Well sorry dear. That you are completely off topic.
  • faraon
    faraon 18 October 2013 02: 46
    0
    Quote: Den 11
    You see, Eugene. You do not want to discuss this topic, I understand YOU. But people here are not framers. Moreover, there are a lot of those who have not registered, but you read the conclusion yourself.

    Why not discuss, you can talk about this topic, for example, I am of the opinion that the team 101 completed its task. I will explain 1) The reason why they went to this village.
    2) It was all clearly planned as a response to the actions of the Jordanian side. (And to say which soldiers of the Jordanian army is not worth it, let it be on the conscience of their commanders).
    3) Well, and in the end, at that time period, this action played a significant role both in the defense and political plan. This East is respected here by force, not by treaty.
    4) .Well, that the forest is cut, the little cloves are flying. Any operation plans the loss of both military and civilian.
  • faraon
    faraon 18 October 2013 04: 55
    +1
    Excellent article, put +, we are waiting for the continuation, and discussion of the next topic.
  • faraon
    faraon 18 October 2013 09: 01
    0
    Quote: ruslan207
    Kalash may be and the Chinese clones Miluimniks were armed in the 50s with them


    In Israel, Soviet-style weapons, and now enough, but in 1950 the Georgian weapons were in single copies.
    The main armaments were American Thomsons, German Schmeissers, and Israeli Uzes, and there weren’t any Chinese clones
  • old rats
    old rats 19 October 2013 16: 41
    +1
    Quote: Pimply
    Quote: Spade
    I make the task easier. Systematic punitive expeditions in the history of Armenia cannot be found.

    That's right, they are called by the beautiful name of "stripping".


    I participated in the sweeps. No houses exploded at the same time. And if civilian corpses appeared during the event, we would be put on cancer for this.