Military Review

Lebedev, Minister of Defense of Ukraine: “Our army is capable of accomplishing any task set, including a full-scale military operation”

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Lebedev, Minister of Defense of Ukraine: “Our army is capable of accomplishing any task set, including a full-scale military operation”

Exclusive interview of the Minister of Defense of Ukraine Pavel Lebedev to the agency “Interfax-Ukraine” (October 16 2013)


Question: This fall, the last conscription of military servicemen took place. What problems of transition to a contract today can we talk about? Is the funding at this level appropriate?

Answer: As you know, according to a recent decree of the President - Supreme Commander Viktor Yanukovych, this fall will be the last call of citizens for military service. Our army goes to the recruitment contract. This is provided for by the integrated State program for the reform and development of our Armed Forces for the period up to 2017.

I want to note that while it’s too early to talk about the problems of replacing the recruiting system with a voluntary one, today it’s too early. For several reasons. First, this process has just begun. Secondly, the current dynamics of recruiting our Armed Forces as volunteers who have chosen military service under a contract with their profession indicates that this replacement is within our reach. And thirdly, we have significantly improved the motivation for our future contract.

As for the amount of financing directly to the professionalization of the army, we plan to spend more than 4 billion hryvnias in the framework of 35 billion hryvnas envisaged for the maintenance of troops over the next 90 years.

In my opinion, there is one eloquent criterion that quite clearly describes the sufficiency or insufficiency of the volume of this financing. This is the dynamic growth of the number of candidates for military service under the contract at our recruitment points. In the last 2 of the year, it has been showing steady growth.



Question: This year began a gradual increase in monetary remuneration for servicemen of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Has the number of people willing to serve in the army increase in this connection? What are the trends?

Answer: The trends are positive. Increased as the number of people wishing to enter the service under the contract, and accepted for such. Since the beginning of this year, the number of full-time military personnel under the contract (taking into account those who left) has increased by 3,7 thousand people and amounted to 1 September of the current year 49,1 thousand soldiers. This is 58,3% of the total number of posts of soldiers and sergeants.

Today we can state the fact that special forces and army aviation The Ground Forces, 4 aviation brigades of the Air Force are already manned exclusively by contract servicemen - their average staffing level in this category reaches 90%.

I want to note that on October 14 we sent the last conscript servicemen from the ranks of the Ukrainian Navy to the reserve. Thus, our Navy is already fully staffed with the positions of sailors, soldiers, sergeants and foremen exclusively by contract servicemen.



Question: What amount of funding did the VSU ask the Ministry of Defense to budget for next year? How much will general and special funds cover?

Answer: In order to implement the tasks of the state integrated program for the development and reform of the Armed Forces of Ukraine for the period up to 2017, we expect to receive the defense budget in the amount of more than 2014 billion UAH for the next fiscal year 25. Of these, 24 billion UAH. - This is a general fund, and 1 billion UAH. - a special fund (according to the calculations of the Ministry of Finance).

The cost structure, if approved by us, will be the following picture: 5 billion UAH (20,1%) is proposed to be spent on the development, modernization, purchase, repair and maintenance of weapons and military equipment; 2 billion UAH. (8,4%) - for education and training of the Armed Forces of Ukraine; 18 billion UAH. (71,5%) - for their content.

At the same time, it is planned to improve the internal balance of defense expenditures. In particular, there will be an increase in part of the cost of rearmament (from 10% to 20,1%) and combat training (from 7% to 8,4%) with a simultaneous decrease in the cost of maintaining troops (from 83% to 71,5%).

Question: How would you characterize the development of the Ukrainian defense industry? Many experts speak of his decline. What actions is the leadership of the Ministry of Defense undertaking to develop this sector?

Answer: To assess the real possibilities and prospects for the development of the domestic defense industry, in contrast to the notorious "majority of experts," we can only with respect to those projects that interest us, the Armed Forces of Ukraine, as a customer. After all, most of the domestic defense industry is not at all under the control of the Ministry of Defense, but a perfect other department.

From this point of view, the level of our interaction with the national defense-industrial complex fully satisfies us. At least, its capabilities regarding the development, testing and mass production of the weapons and military equipment we need are acceptable.

The Ukrainian military-industrial complex is gradually updating technologies and conducting technical re-equipment, reconstruction of the experimental and production base, which objectively creates opportunities for organizing the production of modern types of weapons and military equipment. For some types of weapons and military equipment, we have already managed to create practically closed production cycles directly in our country. For example, on armored vehicles, small arms, a certain range of rocket weapons a number of other areas.

Question: How is the implementation of the project of building a ship of the corvette class progressing? At what stage today is this program, how is the financing carried out and how much money did the Ministry of Defense request for this direction for the next year?

Answer: The construction of ships of the "corvette" class is provided for by the state targeted defense program for the construction of ships of the "corvette class" under the 58250 project, which was approved by a resolution of the Cabinet of Ministers of Ukraine in November 2011. It provides funding for the construction of 4-x ships of the class "corvette" during 2011 - 2021 year. Currently the construction of the main ship. Comprehensive state program of reform and development of the Armed Forces of Ukraine provides for its commissioning up to 2017 year.

Question: You have previously stated that the Ministry of Defense refuses to implement the Sapsan project. This caused critical expert comments, since substantial funds had already been invested in this project. Is it a premature decision and why is it argued?

Answer: Today, the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine is taking measures to reform the Armed Forces of Ukraine and create their new model. It simply does not provide for the use of such a missile system as the Sapsan. In this regard, the Ministry of Defense and the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine decided on the inexpediency of further implementation of the Sapsan project.

But I want to note that the final decision on this issue at the state level has not yet been made.

Question: What are the plans of the Ministry of Defense regarding the purchase of An-70 aircraft? How many are they planning to buy the Russian side? How successful is this aircraft being tested?

Answer: As you know, the development and creation of a promising military transport aircraft An-70 and, accordingly, financing of these activities from the state budget of Ukraine is carried out according to a special targeted defense program. In turn, the integrated state program for the reform and development of the Armed Forces of Ukraine for the period up to 2017 provides for the purchase of at least 2 aircraft for the army. However, if there are additional funds, this amount can be increased.

As for the characteristics of the process of procurement of this sample by the Russian side, which also participates in the project, it is outside the scope of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine. About when and how many of these aircraft is going to buy the Russian Federation, you better ask from its official representatives.

Regarding the success or failure of testing prototypes of An-70, only its developer, KB them, can provide comprehensive and complete information. Y.Antonova. I would not like to comment on what is being created by others; this is simply incorrect.

Question: What new models of weapons and military equipment are planned to be purchased?

Answer: The measures of the comprehensive program provide for the purchase and equipping of the Armed Forces of Ukraine with new and modernized models of military equipment: airplanes, helicopters, anti-aircraft missile and artillery weapons, radar stations and air defense systems, ships and boats, tanks and armored combat vehicles, army vehicles ...

Question: How do you rate the combat readiness of the Ukrainian army today? What threats do you see for the state and are they capable of opposing them?

Answer: Our army is quite combat ready. As the results of numerous exercises show, the personnel of the Armed Forces of Ukraine are well trained and prepared. The level of his weapons and equipment, as well as the provision of all the necessary supplies for life and battle is sufficient for that, if necessary, to perform any task. Including in the format of a full-scale combat operation.

I was convinced of this more than once, having been around 15 this time directly in the army. It is planned in total for this year more than 20 of such trips. For example, in the spring of this year, I personally checked the capabilities in this regard of our 30 mechanized brigade, I also checked parts of the Air and Navy, a number of other parts and formations. And they all demonstrated quite confident ability to solve the tasks set for them. Of course, the current level of operational capabilities of our army is not the limit. And there is the possibility of a significant increase. Today we are working hard on this.

As for the threats to the national security of our country, or rather their evaluation and analysis, this is a very large and complex matter, its results are contained in all the program documents of the defense of our country, starting with the military doctrine of our country and ending with the development and reform programs of the Armed Forces .
Author:
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32 comments
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  1. Civil
    Civil 17 October 2013 08: 23 New
    +2
    It won’t help if they go over to our side. Which is unlikely.
    1. Airman
      Airman 17 October 2013 09: 14 New
      +2
      Each state has an army that finance allows.
    2. vladimirZ
      vladimirZ 17 October 2013 09: 18 New
      +1
      But in general, why does Ukraine need an army if it is going to the EU? Her NATO will protect. Anyway, Russia will not fight with Ukraine.
      So small professional forces to imitate support for the "big American brother" in hot spots where Uncle Sam decides to plant "democracy".
      So, the decision by Yanukovych to refuse conscription fits into the treacherous policy of surrendering Ukraine to the United States and the West.
      1. Anthony
        Anthony 20 October 2013 18: 01 New
        0
        Quote: vladimirZ
        Yanukovych’s decision to refuse conscription fits into the treacherous policy of surrendering Ukraine

        Why Yanukovych? in general, the transition to the contract army was planned by Yushchenko and Tymoshenko back in 2004. And from that moment, they systematically approached this day, and Yanukovych simply completed what was started
  2. v.lyamkin
    v.lyamkin 17 October 2013 08: 24 New
    +8
    Answer: Our army is quite combat ready. As the results of numerous exercises show, the personnel of the Armed Forces of Ukraine are well trained and prepared. The level of his weapons and equipment, as well as the provision of all the necessary supplies for life and battle is sufficient for that, if necessary, to perform any task. Including in the format of a full-scale combat operation.
    I was convinced of this more than once, having been around 15 this time directly in the army. It is planned in total for this year more than 20 of such trips. For example, in the spring of this year, I personally checked the capabilities in this regard of our 30 mechanized brigade, I also checked parts of the Air and Navy, a number of other parts and formations. And they all demonstrated quite confident ability to solve the tasks set for them. Of course, the current level of operational capabilities of our army is not the limit. And there is the possibility of a significant increase. Today we are working hard on this.
    That's who we need to look up to. Moreover, pay attention: to assess the combat readiness it turns out that exercises are not needed at all, but enough trips in parts. And we are stupid ...
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 17 October 2013 08: 30 New
      10
      Quote: v.lyamkin
      Moreover, pay attention: to assess the combat readiness it turns out that exercises are not needed at all, but enough trips in parts

      It was the same with us in the 90s. Grachev came to our unit, they drove us all into the library, God forbid, God forbid, I didn’t catch the eye of a distinguished guest wassat He didn’t even go into the barracks, he filled up the headquarters, drank a glass (according to rumors) and made a note, after 10 minutes. The unit received EXCELLENT combat training laughing
      1. kostya_a
        kostya_a 17 October 2013 08: 53 New
        +3
        And before that, lawns painted and whitewashed borders lol
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 17 October 2013 09: 25 New
          +2
          Quote: kostya_a
          And before that, lawns painted and whitewashed borders

          The borders were whitewashed, but the grass was treated differently. He came in the summer, because we half torn off the grass with our hands to create the appearance, as if it were mowed obliquely laughing
    2. Su-9
      Su-9 17 October 2013 08: 37 New
      +3
      Lebedev PERSONALLY checks everything! Here is the proof:
      1. Su-9
        Su-9 17 October 2013 08: 39 New
        +2
        The photo cannot be inserted from the mobile.
        But from here:
        http://wartime.org.ua/7661-mnstr-oboroni-ukrayini-timchasovo-zmniv-kabnet-na-kab
        nu-nadzvukovogo-vinischuvacha.html
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 17 October 2013 08: 45 New
          +2
          Quote: Su-9
          Lebedev PERSONALLY checks everything! Here is the proof:

          Quote: Su-9
          The photo cannot be inserted from the mobile.

          Well, I looked at the photo, so what? We also have Putin sitting in the cockpits of fighter planes. A simple PR photo and nothing more.
          1. Su-9
            Su-9 17 October 2013 17: 41 New
            +1
            It was like an ironic joke. smile
            It is clear that when you ride a plane, the combat readiness of a unit cannot be increased or verified.
  3. The comment was deleted.
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 17 October 2013 08: 31 New
      +1
      Quote: Denis
      Who is going to fight with?

      With friends from the EU wassat
  4. Apollo
    Apollo 17 October 2013 08: 28 New
    +5
    Along the way, the question of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine, why did Ukraine remain aloof from the joint Russian-Belarusian exercises ?! Here is the most important and burning question. Everything else is secondary.
    1. Zhenya
      Zhenya 17 October 2013 08: 29 New
      +4
      And who wanted to see her at these exercises? The Belarusian army, despite its small size, is more effective than the Ukrainian.
    2. Akim
      Akim 17 October 2013 09: 22 New
      +4
      Quote: Apollon
      why did Ukraine remain aloof from the joint Russian-Belarusian exercises ?!

      the exercises were held as part of the CSTO. Tripartite exercises were in the summer near Volgograd.
  5. The comment was deleted.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  6. kosopooz77
    kosopooz77 17 October 2013 08: 37 New
    +2
    Quote: Marrying
    And who wanted to see her at these exercises? The Belarusian army, despite its small size, is more effective than the Ukrainian.

    If you do not take into account the Russian, then the Belarusian army is the most effective in the post-Soviet space
    1. Akim
      Akim 17 October 2013 09: 25 New
      +5
      Quote: kosopooz77
      , then the Belarusian army is the most effective in the post-Soviet space

      I don’t take forgetfulness about the Kazakh and Azerbaijani armies as a censure, but why did you decide that the Belarusian army is super-duper. (of course after the Russian bully )?
  7. rugor
    rugor 17 October 2013 08: 37 New
    +1
    The minister’s answers are strange, ask those of others, I’m not responsible for this. You need to keep your hand on the pulse!
  8. KEKS44
    KEKS44 17 October 2013 08: 37 New
    +5
    I’m skeptical about the article. In my opinion, the Minister of Defense of Ukraine is lying a little.
    1. Russ69
      Russ69 17 October 2013 08: 47 New
      +1
      Quote: KEKS44
      I’m skeptical about the article. In my opinion, the Minister of Defense of Ukraine is lying a little.

      And the Minister of Defense, which side will say. That everything is shitty ... Anyone will answer as well.
      I will not say that the Ukrainian army is toothless. But everything is built on the remains of the USSR. And there’s practically nothing new, everything is for sale. We also do not have ice, of course. But even if the movement is in the right direction, let it slowly and with a creak for now.
      1. KEKS44
        KEKS44 17 October 2013 14: 00 New
        +1
        Quote: Russ69
        Anyone will answer as well.

        May be. But in this case, in my frank pi..sh!
  9. borisjdin1957
    borisjdin1957 17 October 2013 08: 43 New
    0
    from the Don.
    Ambition above forelock!
  10. Standard Oil
    Standard Oil 17 October 2013 08: 46 New
    0
    They want to destroy their army in Ukraine, so let them destroy, is it unlikely that a war between Ukraine and its neighbors is possible, on the one hand the European Union, where Ukraine is so eager, on the other hand Russia that you can bark at a command from above, but no more. In our region economic power decides everything, and Ukraine, with its GDP at the level of Peru or Singapore in the region, is an open outsider.
    1. Akim
      Akim 17 October 2013 09: 41 New
      12
      Quote: Standard Oil
      They want to destroy their army in Ukraine, so let them destroy

      I do not advertise Yanyk, just watch. Yusch had a program "10 steps towards people" One of such steps concerned the army. Everything is what Yanyk says. Only the army under Yusha did not conduct large-scale exercises. Almost not modernized. The budget was constantly being cut and the broken one led us to NATO.
      Over the years 1) non-aligned status 2) Black Sea Fleet until 2042 (remember how much rat fuss about lighthouses) 3) modernization of all types of aircraft and repair of ships is underway. 4) the unfortunate submarine "Zaporozhye", nevertheless, was put on the water 5) resumed joint exercises with Russia 6) every year large-scale final exercises 7) the pilots doubled the annual flight time 8) the defense budget almost doubled (from 13 to 25 billion hryvnias) , moreover, the hryvnyuk exchange rate did not fall by a third. 9) Yusch and Timokha promised a contract army, but on the contrary there was an outflow of supreme conscripts - and now there will be. You can still enumerate, but this is so offhand.
      1. gladiatorakz
        gladiatorakz 17 October 2013 10: 04 New
        +6
        Quote: Akim
        Over the years 1) non-aligned status 2) Black Sea Fleet until 2042 (remember how much rat fuss about lighthouses) 3) modernization of all types of aircraft and repair of ships is underway. 4) the unfortunate submarine "Zaporozhye", nevertheless, was put on the water 5) resumed joint exercises with Russia 6) every year large-scale final exercises 7) the pilots doubled the annual flight time 8) the defense budget almost doubled (from 13 to 25 billion hryvnias) , moreover, the hryvnyuk exchange rate did not fall by a third. 9) Yusch and Timokha promised a contract army, but on the contrary there was an outflow of supreme conscripts - and now there will be. You can still enumerate, but this is so offhand.

        Akim, well, you give. Why do they need facts? They have emotions, and you are with logic. Different languages. laughing
        1. Standard Oil
          Standard Oil 17 October 2013 10: 26 New
          +2
          I will disappoint you, in Russia now the word Ukraine, especially the younger generation does not cause anything but a shrug and a smile, no feelings.
          1. gladiatorakz
            gladiatorakz 17 October 2013 10: 53 New
            +3
            Quote: Standard Oil
            I will disappoint you, now the word Ukraine in Russia, especially the younger generation does not cause anything but a shrug and a smile, no feelings

            The media are not asleep. Divide and distance.
      2. Ascetic
        Ascetic 17 October 2013 16: 16 New
        +3
        Quote: Akim
        I do not advertise Yanyka, just watch

        This is all good of course. But here we read that the Ukrainian government adopted a reform or modernization program does not matter with a budget of 16 billion dollars.

        We will not discuss where it is planned to take this money from, it also doesn’t matter. The most important dog is buried in how to spend money. There are two main parts to military spending.
        1. The costs of the actual maintenance of the army
        2. Combat training, repair and maintenance of military equipment.
        Any more or less literate person with a higher military education will say that the army is considered combat-ready and meets development requirements when the balance between the first and second points is optimally 40% to 60%, even 50 to 50 is normal. All that is lower is the degradation and eating up of the budget. So in Ukraine, according to the estimates of the General Staff of the Russian Federation
        About 85 percent was spent on maintaining the army from the military budget. Only 15 percent was allocated for combat training, repair, and modernization of military equipment.

        Well, they will reduce the army to 70 thousand contractors from 180 thousand. So what? According to science, 8bn.dollars should be enough for their maintenance (this year two 2bn. Or a little more than 15 billion hryvnias were allocated). This means that Ukraine intends to spend about five times less on one soldier than in the Russian army, and 30 times less than in the Polish .. and the same minimum is needed for military training and most importantly - on modernization of arms and military equipment this despite the fact that the same Yanukovych admitted that the army of Ukraine "limited combat readiness "
        Suffice it to say that the service life of 92% of military equipment exceeds 20 years, and more than 50 percent - 25 years. Ukraine, according to the state arms program, is practically does not plan to purchase new equipment, only the modernization and repair of existing ones.. We also had about the same situation 10-15 years ago. And only somewhere in the year 2008 the commander of the Strategic Missile Forces (personally heard) proudly reported. that at last the troops began to spend more on combat training and new equipment than on upkeep. This was when the new RKs had already begun to join the troops. (Incidentally, 40% of Russian Ukrainians serving in the Strategic Rocket Forces of the Russian Federation have historically been developed, Ukraine has such an opportunity she deprived herself)
        So count whether 8bn is enough. even for the modernization of the remaining Soviet equipment in the required Ukraine volume. And for combat training? It is enough to say that the armed forces of Ukraine conduct about 5 battalion tactical exercises per year. In Russia, one brigade conducts more exercises per year than all the armed forces of Ukraine.
        For me personally this raises big questions, it smacks of another populism.
        1. Corneli
          Corneli 17 October 2013 18: 24 New
          +4
          Quote: Ascetic
          According to science, 8bn.dollars should be enough for their maintenance (this year two 2bn. Or a little more than 15 billion hryvnias were allocated). This means that Ukraine expects to spend about five times less per soldier than in the Russian army, and 30 times less than in the Polish ..

          Everything is of course bad, but prices (and purchasing power of the RFP, respectively, are higher), while we are different ... lower than the Russian Federation and Poland. On 4 to hryvnias (500 cu) one person can live quite well and not so badly. In the Russian Federation, as I heard, sn is much higher, but not the fact that living on it is better.
          Quote: Ascetic
          Suffice it to say that the service life of 92% of military equipment exceeds 20 years, and more than 50 percent - 25 years. Ukraine, according to the state arms program, has virtually no plans to purchase new equipment, only the modernization and repair of existing ones ..

          Here, I agree, everything is very depressing, but under Yushche this was not done either (it just rotted away on conservation)
          Quote: Ascetic
          So count whether 8bn is enough. even for the modernization of the remaining Soviet equipment in the required Ukraine volume. And for combat training?

          In "full volume 2, of course, no! I'm not even very sure about more. But at least some movement (with faith in the best). By the way, even Russia does not have money in" full volume ", but you have much more money and opportunities, and desires
          Quote: Ascetic
          It is enough to say that the armed forces of Ukraine conduct about 5 battalion tactical exercises per year. In Russia, one brigade conducts more exercises per year than all the armed forces of Ukraine.

          Again, not so long ago and this was not (
          Quote: Ascetic
          For me personally this raises big questions, it smacks of another populism.

          This is populism, pre-election PR, designed for domestic consumption (such as fulfilled what he promised, but how exactly - another question. The truth is in any case better than Yush, who promised and did not, or rather worse)
  11. leon-iv
    leon-iv 17 October 2013 09: 04 New
    +3
    IIIII had fun in the morning. The army of the nenki will soon be able to drive the Tatars out of the Crimea not only to fight.
  12. Wedmak
    Wedmak 17 October 2013 09: 06 New
    +3
    Fresh tradition ... And against this background, someone out there predicting a war with Ukraine? God be with you, in the next article, for the banner of victory, the assault on the apartment led all night ... So they could not do anything. And then ... funny.
  13. major071
    major071 17 October 2013 09: 14 New
    +7
    Then Ukraine will enter the EU and then send the Ukrainian units somewhere to Iraq or Afghanistan, in general, to plug some kind of hole instead of the Americans. And then it will be possible to judge the combat readiness of the army. And in an interview you can fluff feathers and inflate your chest.
    1. Corneli
      Corneli 17 October 2013 13: 49 New
      +3
      Quote: major071
      Then Ukraine will enter the EU and then send the Ukrainian units somewhere to Iraq or Afghanistan, in general, to plug some kind of hole instead of the Americans. And then it will be possible to judge the combat readiness of the army. And in an interview you can fluff feathers and inflate your chest.

      How are you all dear to me. What is the entry into the EU ?! And even more so in NATO ?! Are you crazy about sholi? May these mantras be enough to repeat here? But in fact, you see, and even the association agreement will not be signed this year, since Yanyk rested his horn and does not want to let out Julia. All week I read sho she almost flies to Germany on an airplane and every day. And the hysteria of the EU members about this (the deadline was like October 15). So stop already ... am
      1. Wedmak
        Wedmak 17 October 2013 13: 55 New
        +1
        Yes, we will only be happy if everything you say happens. Only now, your government somehow does not listen to the people ...
        1. Corneli
          Corneli 17 October 2013 14: 15 New
          +3
          Quote: Wedmak
          Yes, we will only be happy if everything you say happens. Only now, your government somehow does not listen to the people ...

          I wrote this not as a fiction or some kind of dream. But what is the real state of affairs, i.e. fact. There is no question at all about Ukraine's admission to the EU in any foreseeable future. We cannot be in NATO at least because there is a non-aligned law (Yanukovych signed it) and this is not counting a bunch of other serious reasons why joining NATO is a fantasy (well, or the fantasies of individual members of the forum and our "svidomites"). The Association Agreement with the EU, the significance of which is so inflated here, is just a stick in the wheel of Ukraine's accession to the Customs Union, hence this grandiose ride over the ears for the "people". "People" is being carried on, everyone is happy (well, except for the same normal Ukrainians and Russians who try not only to listen to bawlers on TV, but also to analyze what is really going on)request
          1. Wedmak
            Wedmak 17 October 2013 15: 14 New
            0
            On Ukraine’s admission to the EU in the foreseeable future, the question is not at all.

            Yes, not worth it, I agree. But already the association will give the EU leverage to control your economy. And capturing markets with European goods. Does your industry stand it?
            The Association Agreement with the EU, the significance of which is so inflated here, is just a stick in the wheel of Ukraine’s entry into the CU

            Oh .. this is not only a stick in the wheel of the vehicle, it is also a good tool for moving Ukraine away from Russia.
            1. Akim
              Akim 17 October 2013 15: 19 New
              +2
              Quote: Wedmak
              But already the association will give the EU leverage to control your economy.

              And if you do not broadcast TV, how do you think the EU will be able to influence (or rather include leverage) on the country's economy ??
              1. Wedmak
                Wedmak 17 October 2013 15: 51 New
                0
                Yes, that's about the same as our dear Onishchenko does. Goods from the EU will go to you, but your goods to the EU ... another question.
                And all sorts of conditions for entering the EU market ... they love it.
                1. Akim
                  Akim 17 October 2013 16: 29 New
                  +4
                  Quote: Wedmak
                  And all sorts of conditions for entering the EU market ... they love it.

                  This is yes. As for goods from the EU, there is a 10-year moratorium on customs duties. And in general, in a philistine way, our products are cheaper, and some of them that were imported will be so. Or do you think that French cheese will replace the "Russian" of some local dairy?
                  When there was nothing to eat, in the early 90s, they also ate traditional Polish products. Now the consumer has a choice and for a reasonable price. And your Onishchenko is the Kremlin's political Cerberus, which was launched against Belarus. Nobody believes in his fairy tale about poisoned products, including in Russia. Or is the ban on vegetable stores in Byuryulevo not an indicator for you? There appeared sharply unsanitary norms, after recent political and social events. If ZAZ dies, I will not cry. Everything else is from Europe, or even from China. Recently I bought a Lviv 32 "Electron (barely ours). It is more expensive than the Chinese Saturn, but much cheaper than its European counterparts.
                  So it is in everything. And the standards must be adapted to enterprises. Tired of living without actual norms.
                  1. Cat
                    Cat 17 October 2013 16: 52 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Akim
                    And the standards must be adapted to enterprises. Tired of living without actual norms.

                    They won't adapt. Even if they really want to, and they will find appropriate money for this business. Because these "norms", in fact, were created with such a calculation - so that they could not be fulfilled, and for the same purpose they are regularly revised and supplemented. It is not for nothing that the bourgeoisie are trying to the maximum to remove all production in China and other Malaysia there - it is terribly unprofitable to produce anything in the vastness of Europe, because of the need to comply with all these "norms" and "standards". And even if someone foolishly and bothers to fulfill well, absolutely all the requirements, the cost of production of a plant located in the same European analogue of Berdichev will not be much lower than if this plant was built in the middle of the Champs Elysees, and the best were hired for all positions up to the janitor graduates of Cambridge.

                    PS if you worked at a manufacturing enterprise, tell me: did this enterprise manage to fulfill absolutely all fire safety requirements at least once? Or maybe you heard about another company that succeeded? Exactly, I have not heard either. What is production there, to any an office or a store there for firefighters always there are claims. Likewise, the European inspectors, who, according to the notorious Agreement, will monitor compliance with all these "norms" - if they want, they will always find something to stick to. Only now they have appetites, maybe more than a fire inspector will have ...
                    1. Akim
                      Akim 17 October 2013 18: 14 New
                      +2
                      Quote: Cat
                      Did this company manage to fulfill absolutely all fire safety requirements at least once?

                      It will fail. At least at this point. But association is not accession to the EU. Many Russian politicians do not finish this with a specialist. and our Yatsenyuk, on the contrary, imagines himself already a member (circumcised by his religion) of the European Union. Europe, in the first place, will be interested in the quality of goods from Ukraine, in non-labor standards of the country. It is in the future there are plans to bring all the rules to their standards in order to become a candidate. Therefore, the association is called.
                      PS And in addition. Europe freely sells only goods from the countries of manufacture. Not from the brand. The cheaper Audi from China cannot be sold in the EU, so the Chinese bought the British MG to produce their cars under this brand. And in Bulgaria, a plant is being built, either Jelly or Lifana.
                      1. Cat
                        Cat 17 October 2013 18: 57 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Akim

                        It will fail. At least at this point. But association is not accession to the EU. Many Russian politicians do not finish this with a specialist. and our Yatsenyuk, on the contrary, imagines himself already a member (circumcised by his religion) of the European Union. Europe, in the first place, will be interested in the quality of goods from Ukraine, in non-labor standards of the country

                        So that's what I'm talking about quality. Bringing it into compliance is a task of the same plan as fulfilling all fire safety requirements. Actually, I mentioned the firemen as the most striking example of "compliance".
                        And the notorious European quality - where and when did you see it for the last time? Take the same Audi of the 80s, and modern, and compare the frequency of visits of the owners of these cars to the car service. Or remember how the German footwear of the Salamander system was valued in the USSR, how many seasons it nursed in our rural muds - and compare with modern "Euroshoes", which are not always enough for one season in the city. And there are plenty of such examples.
                        Quote: Akim
                        PS And in addition. Europe sells freely only goods from producer countries, and not from the brand,

                        This is where you said that? Go there and knock everyone in the head for shameless and insolent nonsense. Or maybe I missed something, and in Europe they banned the sale of iPhones assembled in China and other "gnawed" devices?
                      2. Akim
                        Akim 17 October 2013 19: 14 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Cat
                        Or maybe I missed something, and in Europe they banned the sale of iPhones assembled in China and other "gnawed" devices?

                        Europe does not prohibit such a product, if it meets the standards. Just extra charge and bribe for it is different
                      3. Cat
                        Cat 17 October 2013 20: 20 New
                        0
                        Quote: Akim
                        Europe does not prohibit such a product, if it meets the standards. Just extra charge and bribe for it is different

                        Norms - who prescribes them? And most importantly - for how long?
                        On the example of the same cars and environmental standards of EURO:
                        Euro 1 - 1992
                        Euro 2 - 1995
                        Euro 3 - 1999
                        Euro 4 - 2005
                        Euro 5 - 2009
                        Euro 6 - originally planned for the end of 2013, then moved to 2015.
                        Now imagine how long it takes to design an engine, put it into production, and how much money will it all pour out? Yes, a huge multinational corporation can afford such expenses, it will have enough intellectual and production resources for timely updating of its lineup - that’s just the question: where are these corporations in Ukraine? What is the name of? Here, and I do not know.
                        And this is not only such a joke with cars, almost any product has such regularly updated requirements. The same agriculture: it turns out that the content of a certain percentage of proteins, fats in milk, and the absence of mercury in it - this still does not mean anything, it is also necessary that the cow does not grow up in a stall, but freely walks through the pasture, to the sounds of classical music. Otherwise, milk from such a cow will "not match." And pigs need toys, otherwise the meat is also substandard. Yes, and it is not an uncle in the household who should raise these same cows and pigs, but an agricultural enterprise with an appropriate license. The cost and conditions of obtaining which not a single peasant will ever be able to pull out, even if he sells not only a cow and a pig, but also a house, a barn, a vegetable garden, and a daughter to drive the oil sheikh into a harem.
                        And do you think that we really need such "norms" and that the notorious "little Ukrainian" will really benefit from their introduction?
                      4. Akim
                        Akim 17 October 2013 20: 38 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Cat
                        And do you think that we really need such "norms" and that the notorious "little Ukrainian" will really benefit from their introduction?

                        For me it’s not necessary. I like sprats, which are smoked not according to Euro standards. but the EU is not the only direction for implementation. We have Latvian normally smoked sprats - a complete store. And thank God there is no such Onishchenko. So it is in everything. Ukraine exports only a third of its products to the EU, a third to the Customs Union, the rest is the whole world. If necessary, industrialists will adapt. And the villagers. The domestic market is large.
                      5. Cat
                        Cat 17 October 2013 21: 21 New
                        0
                        Quote: Akim

                        For me it’s not necessary. I like sprats, which are smoked not according to Euro standards. but the EU is not the only direction for implementation. We have Latvian normally smoked sprats - a complete store. And thank God there is no such Onishchenko. So it is in everything. Ukraine exports only a third of its products to the EU, a third to the Customs Union, the rest is the whole world. If necessary, industrialists will adapt. And the villagers. The domestic market is large.

                        So, that's the problem with this very "eurointegration" - in imposing on us standards that we don't even need. The same Russia, at least for now, does not sink to such vulgarities. Well, they "found" there cheto in our sweets and banned supplies, well, his mother is like that. In the end, they protect their own market, they have the right. But how much gas we have there for the population - Russia in general and Mr. Putin in particular, is deeply purple. At least Ukraine bought it for 1000 bucks and sold it for 10 - who cares? But Evropu, it turns out, is thrilled. You see, the IMF gives us a loan - it doesn't, after all, and lends, at interest. He is earning money on this, he is also trying to set conditions - what and how much should our country sell its own to citizens. Rudeness, however.
                        And the villagers, all this integration with their standards also directly concerns - since we will have a common market with Europe, then it is not possible to trade household products on it. And then all of a sudden he buys what a European man and gets nafig, from the absence of preservatives, stabilizers, and other chemicals "identical to natural" in the food. In general, it will not work well, therefore you give Ukraine a condition: to prohibit the purchase of food from households. And the domestic market will not save anyone here, the same milk is sold in bulk at the bazaar, fig and nifiga - basically it is handed over to dairies, meat, respectively, to meat processing plants. But the plant, which buys raw materials from the villagers, will not receive a European license in its life, and will not hand over its products to any trading network - due to the absence of that very license. Someone, of course, will trade through small shops and other stalls there - but the bulk will be closed safely. And what will the villagers do with the animals grown in the barn - figs of it ...
            2. Corneli
              Corneli 17 October 2013 18: 32 New
              +2
              Quote: Cat
              It is not for nothing that the bourgeoisie are trying to the maximum to remove all production in China and other Malaysia there - it is terribly unprofitable to produce anything in the vastness of Europe, because of the need to comply with all these "norms" and "standards".

              One of the "hopes" of our oligarchs is the opening of such industries in Ukraine, after the signing of an FTA. I was not interested in the comparison with China and Malaysia, but the costs of salary and other things in Ukraine are MUCH lower than in the EU.
              Quote: Cat
              PS if you worked at a manufacturing enterprise, tell me: did this enterprise manage to fulfill absolutely all fire safety requirements at least once? Or maybe you heard about another company that succeeded? Exactly, I have not heard either. Yes, there is production, to any office or shop there, firefighters always have complaints.

              And not only among the "fire fighters", there are also tax officers, a sanitary and epidemiological station, and so on. "competent authorities" (of which there are legion) which cannot live without bribes. But you put our local customs as an example, not the rules of the EU inspectors. Just they, about this, will not take too much steam, especially when compared with local grabbers (who, incidentally, do not climb into "joint" enterprises, they can give ...
              1. Cat
                Cat 17 October 2013 19: 03 New
                0
                Quote: Corneli
                And not only among the "fire fighters", there are also tax officers, a sanitary and epidemiological station, and so on. "competent authorities" (of which there are legion) which cannot live without bribes. But you put our local customs as an example, not the rules of the EU inspectors. Just they, about this, will not take too much steam, especially when compared with local grabbers (who, incidentally, do not climb into "joint" enterprises, they can give ...

                Well, yes, why should their inspectors bother - if for this there are honest and incorruptible European courts? The sensational story with Apple and Samsung - when they tried to remove the Korean tablet from the market. Moreover, as material evidence, the court considered not the tablets themselves (the cost is a penny by European standards), but the photographs provided by the interested party, which were not certified by any lingering notary. Indeed, "civilized European customs", yeah ... all of our inspectors, taken together, will not dream of this even in the rosy dream.
              2. Corneli
                Corneli 17 October 2013 19: 27 New
                +1
                Quote: Cat
                The sensational story with Apple and Samsung - when they tried to remove the Korean tablet from the market. Moreover, as material evidence, the court considered not the tablets themselves (the cost is a penny by European standards), but the photographs provided by the interested party, which were not certified by any lingering notary. Indeed, "civilized European manners", yeah ... all our inspectors, taken together, will not dream of this even in the most rosy dream.

                The example is not too successful ...
                1. Apple is an Amer company, not an EU
                2. The courts between her and the Samsung have been (and still are) in many countries of the world.
                3. In the same EU, in 2011 Germany made a ban, but the Netherlands did not enter the ban, plus an appeal was filed. And in Britain in 2012, the court was for Samsung (and it also works in EU countries)
                4. Really won the trial against Samsung only in the USA (unexpectedly true? laughing ) And in Australia.
                5. In spite of everything, Samsung receives 3 times more money from these phones than an apple.
                6. This is a matter of colossal money, dozens of lard dollars (comparable to the entire budget of Ukraine), it is logical that both sides are very tense ... there is something ...
                P.S. Ukraine simply does not have such a scale (competitive and disputed goods with the EU), Schaub to arrange such a lawsuit. And such cases can be conducted over the years, with all kinds of appeals and other things ...
                We even talked about the "inspections" of EU inspectors in Ukrainian. enterprises, and not about the global confrontation of international mega-corporations.
              3. Cat
                Cat 17 October 2013 19: 53 New
                +1
                The example is not that bad - it's just that the conversation you intervened was about something else. Ie about the difference between the "registration" of the trade mark, and the country of origin. But even in this situation, it turns out - there are "rough" brands that "can" (and do not care where they have an office, and where - a factory), and there are all the others. And personally, I deeply doubt that Ukrainian enterprises will be among the approximate ones.

                And the fact that you are about inspections, and I'm talking about the courts ... so these are links of the same chain, this is one and the same system. And the fact that the court accepts left, unverified photographs as evidence - this already characterizes transparency and integrity very well systems, even regardless of which decision the court will ultimately make.
                With regards to the percentage of Samsung's profit and the "nibbled" ones - who cares? The Germans were crushed by the toad that the Korean manufacturer earns more than the "rough" amers? Or what other reasons are there? Maybe there is, just to the concepts of "justice", "rule of law", and other beautiful slogans - these reasons have absolutely nothing to do. Yes, and if the Germans (the actual leaders of the European Union, by the way) had the audacity to openly throw a megacorporation with a budget more than that of other states, then what about Ukrainian enterprises that do not have even a hundredth share of Samsung's resources? Yes, they will be stupidly closed nafig, by the decision of those very courts. And the necessary "evidence" will be provided to the courts by the very inspectors who (unlike our bribe-takers) will not even be able to pay off, honest for. And who will win in the end? Anyone, but not Ukrainian production workers. So that's it.
  • Ascetic
    Ascetic 17 October 2013 18: 22 New
    +2
    Quote: Corneli
    Yanyk rested his horn and does not want to let Julia go.


    Donetsk 17 October. INTERFAX.RU - President of Ukraine Viktor Yanukovych believes that the Verkhovna Rada may decide on the possibility of treating ex-Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko abroad, and promises to sign such a law.

    "Now the political forces that are represented in parliament have prepared a bill that will allow solving this problem. Today, there is no law in Ukraine that would allow Tymoshenko to go abroad. As soon as this issue is resolved in parliament and this law is put on my table, then there will be a question for the president. if parliament passes this law, I will sign it "
    - he told reporters in Donetsk on Thursday.
    link
    1. Akim
      Akim 17 October 2013 18: 34 New
      +2
      Quote: Ascetic
      The Verkhovna Rada may decide on the possibility of treating ex-Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko abroad, and promises to sign such a law.

      This law does not pardon Julia and does not exempt. It's just that the term will run for her, and she will sit out in a hospital in Germany. (like she was sitting here).
    2. Corneli
      Corneli 17 October 2013 19: 09 New
      +2
      Quote: Ascetic
      Donetsk 17 October. INTERFAX.RU - President of Ukraine Viktor Yanukovych believes that the Verkhovna Rada may decide on the possibility of treating ex-Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko abroad, and promises to sign such a law.

      It is logical that the EU and the opposition are suppressing him, like he can let him out, but he won't sign the law like that. So he gets out as best he can: "Like, there are no laws that allow this to be done ... and in the Verkhovna Rada there is a bill (I do everything for the triumph of democracy and the law, I don't sleep straight and I can't eat), but you will accept it (in the democratically elected Rada ) for a start ... If you accept, I'll give it a shot. And so I'm not in business, like ...
  • mixxlll
    mixxlll 17 October 2013 09: 22 New
    0
    But you geniuses didn’t think that minus 1 is our reliable ally. It’s a pity, there was at least some army, and now there won’t be any.
    1. Wedmak
      Wedmak 17 October 2013 09: 32 New
      +2
      And you geniuses didn’t think that 1 is our reliable ally.

      Unfortunately, Ukraine ceased to be an ally almost immediately with the collapse of the USSR. And now it is moving farther away.
      It’s a pity, there was at least some army

      At least some of us have others in bulk. We need exactly the allies who are on the way with us.
      1. kostyan77708
        kostyan77708 17 October 2013 10: 00 New
        0
        Well, it seems to me all this for the time being ... the people will throw the fucking power away, and if the army also supports the people, which is most likely ... just apparently preparing for this scenario
        1. Wedmak
          Wedmak 17 October 2013 10: 16 New
          0
          Well, they already had one orange revolution. Now there are fears of a "Russian revolt". No matter how real it has grown into a civilian.
      2. Oleg Kharkov
        Oleg Kharkov 17 October 2013 22: 51 New
        +1
        Russia provoked the collapse of the USSR. All the republics looked at her with an eye on what the "elder" brother would do. I remember very well the results of the referendum on the integrity of the USSR. And Russia then wanted to throw off the yoke - now there is no need to talk about allies and who betrayed whom.
  • gladiatorakz
    gladiatorakz 17 October 2013 10: 35 New
    10
    I will notify everyone. That the moderator Romanov (who was offended by my remark yesterday about unethical behavior) issued a warning to me today. For the fact that in response to the user's comment that "three Ukrainians are a partisan detachment with a traitor," I called him a dog.
    Question to all? What is worse: to decapitate the memory of the Ancestors and mockingly betray our Heroes of the partisan movement (to dance on their bones on the Internet) or to name the villain dogs.
    Question to Romanov: why do you allow insults to our common Victory and as part of its Partisans, Ukrainians. Or do you not know that during the years of the Second World War every fifth Ukrainian died? And react to those who give such a commentator a fair assessment?
    1. Kars
      Kars 17 October 2013 10: 54 New
      +7
      Quote: gladiatorakz
      I called him a dog.

      You have insulted by no means innocent animals that there is something incomprehensible. They are friends of man.
    2. Akim
      Akim 17 October 2013 10: 55 New
      +8
      Quote: gladiatorakz
      For the fact that in response to the user's comment that "three Ukrainians are a partisan detachment with a traitor," I called him a dog.

      I try not to pay attention to such attacks. This is evident in his school principle: The harder it is to hit a classmate, the funnier.
    3. Corneli
      Corneli 17 October 2013 14: 05 New
      +5
      Quote: gladiatorakz
      I will notify everyone. That the moderator Romanov (who was offended by my remark yesterday about unethical behavior) issued a warning to me today. For the fact that in response to the user's comment that "three Ukrainians are a partisan detachment with a traitor," I called him a dog.

      Pfft, what did you expect from him?) Won in yesterday's article "European integration of Ukraine - ricochets across the Crimea" comments Badly read, guy finally without sadness, sometimes insults through comments with obscenities and what? The mods read and pretended to be okay. I guess if someone wrote about Russia.
      The same can be said about Eho, with his "kaklami" (funny, the word "h.h.o.l." is tinder, and "kakl" is probably a compliment), "Zbruchs" and "Bandera". He will write heresies and drive and all the gut, like it should be.
      And most of all I am amazed when some people write "all Ukrainian prostitutes" and zero reaction! He is also plus and assent !!! And a number of comments from especially conscientious "Crimeans" and "Donbass" (from those who are for the vehicle) and they do not say a word against, apparently they think that their wives do not live in this country and this does not apply to them.
      In short kapets just on this site, especially when it comes to Ukraine. Forum "svidomitov" vice versa.
      1. Oleg Kharkov
        Oleg Kharkov 17 October 2013 22: 54 New
        0
        Everything is simple here - especially zealous in blacklisting - and white squares instead of inadequacy. True, there is a chance to get articles as a result without comment at all — but I think it’s still better than reading any nonsense.
        1. Corneli
          Corneli 18 October 2013 00: 03 New
          0
          Quote: Oleg Kharkov
          Everything is simple here - especially zealous in blacklisting - and white squares instead of inadequacy. True, there is a chance to get articles as a result without comment at all — but I think it’s still better than reading any nonsense.

          Maybe I'm naive to disgrace) But I don’t have black lists, I believe in the human brain and think)) And get down to black lists, minus those who I don’t like, making twinkle accounts ... just broke ... This is the prerogative of clowns interested . I’m just trying to pop out my opinion and not let my country go wrong again. Yes, that's all) hi
  • gladiatorakz
    gladiatorakz 17 October 2013 10: 57 New
    +3
    Quote: Kars
    You have insulted by no means innocent animals that there is something incomprehensible. They are friends of man.

    Yes, here is my mistake. I apologize to the dogs, for this comparison.