Military Review

North wind blowing from the south

62
North wind blowing from the southThis, of course, will be about “Mistral”. Here we must make a small digression. I am very upset by people who think patterns. There is such a "wise thought" that all weapons should be made in Russia. The thought is certainly correct, but it is a pattern. After all, even better is the idea that all "goods" should be domestic.


Personally, my opinion is that it is necessary to “use to the maximum” foreign experience and best practices in all spheres of life. But you can not act on the pattern that the West - means the best. These thoughts seem to be simple. But they are very difficult, not only for the majority of the people, but also for many “big” bosses.

Serdyukov scolded for his commitment to "the best world models." Shoigu is praised for supporting domestic producers. And I have to suffer, because it is difficult for people to think with their brains.

Frankly, I liked the position of Serdyukov. It is a pity, of course, that he was killed by "misunderstandings" with women and money. But, here's the question with "Mistral" to hang it is not necessary. There was a clear order from Medvedev that by such a date ships should be bought.

Well, that bought. And why they bought it, why it was so expensive and what they bought, apparently only Medvedev knows. And for such words "cast in granite", if we had a "climate" softer, he would have to answer. And if we had a "climate" more rigorous, he would have already been engaged in the procurement of firewood and clearing snow from Siberia.

Well, we have some information. And we will dissect it. “Mistral” is already under construction, but “stuffing” about its filling is still not abating. This is only possible in our country. To build a ship in the West, but to "secret" its "insides" from its own citizens. I am already silent about the explanations of his "necessity" by our "military". After all, the muffled muttering of some "admirals" does not pull at all.

There is such a thing - "the concept of combat use." No wonder they say that "the generals are preparing for the last war." But not taking into account the experience, you can only "theoretically" prepare for a future war. Here again the "game of patterns" ©. The experience "written in blood" is priceless. But even if it is not “reworked” creatively, then it can be greatly “discounted”.

So, we do not have our own tactics, or the strategy of using the Mistral. Therefore, we decided together with the ship to "acquire" and Western "conceptual approaches" to the use of landing ships. By the way, according to the old Soviet habit, as always, we always come up with the name of the classes and types of ships.

In the West, too, is not so simple. But, since the US is the trendsetter, we will be “equal” to them. So, the UDC builds its own US as “normal” warships. In this we were very similar to them. Therefore, the plans of the USSR and was "military" UDC type "Kremenchug" (project 11780). In "Europe", they are building "civilian" UDC, which are designed to perform "peacekeeping" operations. Roughly speaking - for the war with the "Papuans". That is, civilian ferries are built and "decorated" with a pair of "guns". Therefore, for me, it is better to call them landing-helicopter dockships (DVKD), although many do not agree with this.

I wonder what kind of colony Russia is going to conquer and pacify? Offered, the city of Kathmandu. I do not know where it is, but it sounds beautiful. So I want to send those who bought Mistral "in Kathmandu."

In general, our fleet is in a very deplorable position. We need so much money to “swell” into its development, that it becomes even a pity. But to finance the French shipyards, we are always ready. After all, we urgently need UDC. Although the Navy had not even dreamed of building it even in plans before 3000, but "the big bear is more visible to him."

On the other hand, the Mistral is a universal ship, it is both a command post and a hospital. And indeed, although there are no normal ship connections, but I still want to command. Therefore, they will collect from all the fleets on the ship, they will call the squadron, and then the admiral on the white "ship". And if it breaks, then we will have two of them. One in reserve. They wanted three in reserve, but failed.

Of course, we really need amphibious ships, which is why we were allowed to use needles, one of our best BDKs of the Ivan Rogov type (1174 project) - Mitrofan Moskalenko. But to modernize it was ten times cheaper than "French buns".

But the "Rhino" is a real fighting ship. Which, to the last screw made and "suffered" in our country. Which can land landing on the "mistralnom" and directly coming to the shore. May support the landing "fire." That something, and nashpigovyvat weapons any military "pot" we already have in the genes. Yes, he has fewer helicopters, but for the price of the Mistral, you can build several Rhinos.

A little about the "fuel problem" Mistral. Modern ships use dozens of different "lubricants". All of them are designed for specific mechanisms and materials. Any modern car enthusiast knows that only “recommended” oils can be used in a car. And this is not only a "marketing" move, but also studies on the compatibility of these materials with the mechanisms of the machine. What can I say about our fuel and lubricants (fuel and lubricants). The French did not even have the idea of ​​"sharpening" their engines under the "Zhiguli" oil. It’s rather difficult to imagine that our fleet will switch to an “imported” supply of fuel and lubricants. And so as not to get up twice, but there are hundreds of different mechanisms on the ship and the failure of even the most insignificant of them will be a serious problem. After all, even our "analogs" will not necessarily be suitable for passport data, technological features, dimensions, organization of repair and maintenance work, and more "millions" of differences. And if there are no analogues? Any minor breakdown will grow into a huge problem. Is it not easier to immediately disassemble the second Mistral for parts? But here they are not joking - this is a military "steamer".

About use in "cold waters". Imagine that the designers, before starting to design the ship, are interested in, and where it will "go." And if there is no one to bomb in the tundra, then the designers do not consider it necessary to install stoves and take care of the ice chipping scrap. Even if we manage to persuade the designers to “weld” excess protection from the ice on the hull, then solving the heating system in hundreds of latrines is much harder. And still it will be necessary to redesign all the ventilation, and better the whole ship ...

The ship is pretty slow. For this, thanks to the unified electric power installation (EEEU), which is very expensive to maintain and completely unknown to our fleet. Inspection and maintenance of the electric motors of this installation is possible only at the docks. And finding them free for large ships is quite difficult.

Highways were designed for use by the French fleet. Okay, we will change the “concept” to a more “advanced” one, but what to do with the organizational structure of the marines? Also adapt to the French? Can we immediately accept NATO standards? how many tankstechnicians have. What is its weight and dimensions should be.

Is there anything good in this ship? Of course have. We will have a comfortable means of delivering our marines and "bosses" to remote "theaters of military operations." Supporting them with the presence of helicopters. We can “demonstrate the flag” to everyone, evacuate people from “disaster zones”, and also treat them immediately.

Another advantage is that we now know for sure that the French have weak ships. It is necessary to bring to the ship a barrel of "Zhiguli" oil, as he immediately closes.

I do not want to "croak", but the fate of these ships will be sad. As long as the young ones, maybe they run off to the Mediterranean, they flaunt themselves at parades, catch half of the pirates and engage in exercises with NATO ships. Well, then, quietly write off "folk" billions and let them go to needles. If only there was no war.
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  1. Apollo
    Apollo 17 October 2013 08: 21
    +2
    If you buy technology and not finished products, my opinion is categorical.

    quote-Well, that's bought. And why they bought it, why it is so expensive and what they bought, apparently only Medvedev knows.

    why they still haven’t been asked where the tender is, why multi-billion dollar deals are being decided by the will of a person alone?! There are many questions and there are no answers. Power should be accountable to the people and not vice versa.
    1. Civil
      Civil 17 October 2013 08: 34
      +1
      All the same, Dokdo had to be taken
    2. Retx
      Retx 17 October 2013 10: 57
      0
      It seems to be. The Spaniards, the Dutch and the French, still our miracle-USC was.
  2. Boldyrev
    Boldyrev 17 October 2013 08: 25
    +3
    Why is it so critical? It can not be used for combat conditions?
    1. roial
      17 October 2013 10: 35
      0
      Maybe it is possible, it is necessary to ask the generals they are developing different plans there.

      And the fact that the infrastructure has not yet begun to be built is bad, remember the fate of "Moscow" and "Leningrad" for which there was no infrastructure either, and for life support in the parking lots it was necessary to drive power units, as a result of which an immeasurable motor resource was spent.
  3. rugor
    rugor 17 October 2013 08: 27
    10
    Money is already paid, it’s too late to talk about it. Now it's time to think how to get the maximum benefit for the fleet from this situation.
    1. Apollo
      Apollo 17 October 2013 08: 52
      0
      Quote: rugor
      Money is already paid, it’s too late to talk about it. Now it's time to think how to get the maximum benefit for the fleet from this situation.


      where are the helicopters under this Mistral ?!
      1. Igor39
        Igor39 17 October 2013 08: 58
        +4
        Ordered 32 KA 52 marine
        1. Russ69
          Russ69 17 October 2013 09: 03
          +1
          Quote: Igor39
          Ordered 32 KA 52 marine

          Not yet, they are waiting for tests of the ship version, which should begin in winter. Yes, and on the Ka-27, while there is no living contract like. After all, they should also be placed on the Mistrals.
      2. Mitek
        Mitek 17 October 2013 09: 05
        0
        Quote: Apollon
        Quote: rugor
        Money is already paid, it’s too late to talk about it. Now it's time to think how to get the maximum benefit for the fleet from this situation.


        where are the helicopters under this Mistral ?!

        It seems like ordered already. A year later should be.
        1. Apollo
          Apollo 17 October 2013 09: 43
          +1
          Quote: Mitek
          Like

          When and by whom ?!
          Quote: Mitek
          as ordered already.

          link.
          Quote: Mitek
          A year later should be.

          link.
        2. Wedmak
          Wedmak 17 October 2013 10: 14
          +1
          It seems like ordered already. A year later should be.

          But in my opinion, they are only being tested. As for the order, it was about "want to order" after the end of the tests.
    2. Airman
      Airman 17 October 2013 10: 59
      -2
      Quote: rugor
      Money is already paid, it’s too late to talk about it. Now it's time to think how to get the maximum benefit for the fleet from this situation.

      Sell ​​China or India at half price.
    3. i_vam_ne_hvoratj
      i_vam_ne_hvoratj 18 October 2013 13: 07
      0
      Dear rugor, I am shy to ask - can you benefit from this miscarriage of French shipbuilding ??? Not to disappoint you, I (this is my subjective opinion) are closer to the position of the author. This, unfortunately, is not about getting the maximum benefit, but about getting out of the current situation with minimal losses.
  4. Russ69
    Russ69 17 October 2013 08: 27
    +2
    Critics have heard enough about the Mistrals. But hotts, at least once to hear from the Morimans, a clear and intelligible rationale, and what for we actually need him ...
    1. i_vam_ne_hvoratj
      i_vam_ne_hvoratj 18 October 2013 13: 11
      0
      Dear colleague. This is interesting to me myself.
  5. Airman
    Airman 17 October 2013 08: 30
    +1
    I agree with the author, we bought it, and now we will disentangle it. Yes, for one "Mistral" LADY with feldmebel should be judged, but they are still "white and fluffy", like bears.
  6. borisjdin1957
    borisjdin1957 17 October 2013 08: 39
    +1
    from the Don.
    ARRIVED!
  7. KazaK Bo
    KazaK Bo 17 October 2013 08: 45
    +1
    There was a clear order from Medvedev that ships should be bought by a certain date.

    About a year ago, Internet visitors "admired" the photo of our very, very "tired" D. Medvedev, during his presidency, after the "working" day of the next summit ... There he is very strongly supported in a vertical state by the then President of France - Nicolas SARCOZY!
    Here you can see in response, and Medvedev decided to "support" his "French friend" for his good service. "Debt payment is beautiful!" But something very expensive will cost us this "PAYMENT"!
    I am not a specialist in naval shipbuilding, and even more so in the use of warships ... specialists will give more specific assessments ... but after this article I became very scared that our individual, including "popularly elected" leaders so easily accept illiterate decisions that bring the country not only material losses ... but also simply harmful consequences ... IN FACT WE WILL BE DEPLOYING THESE SHIPS WHEN PREPARING THE DEFENSE PLANS OF RUSSIA, BUT IN DEAL IT WILL PROVE THAT THEY ...
    1. Wedmak
      Wedmak 17 October 2013 09: 19
      +1
      About a year ago, Internet visitors "admired" the photo of our very, very "tired" D. Medvedev, during his presidency, after the "working" day of the next summit ... There he is very strongly supported in a vertical state by the then President of France - Nicolas SARCOZY!

      If you take pictures with 10 frames per second, you can see sooooo many pictures that do not characterize you as .... whatever. Discussed already.
  8. forester
    forester 17 October 2013 08: 49
    +3
    Quote: Russ69
    Critics have heard enough about the Mistrals. But hotts, at least once to hear from the Morimans, a clear and intelligible rationale, and what for we actually need him ...

    On the TV channel "Arms" sailors of different ranks and positions discussed this vessel, their opinion was reduced to one thing: a self-propelled barge, a floating coffin, etc.
    1. Russ69
      Russ69 17 October 2013 09: 01
      0
      Quote: forester
      On the TV channel "Arms" sailors of different ranks and positions discussed this vessel, their opinion was reduced to one thing: a self-propelled barge, a floating coffin, etc.

      So, I’m talking about that, that is one criticism. But there is no justification for the purchase ... Usually, for any event, there are at least two opinions, and here one and the same negative. Neither be considered justification, allegedly obtaining technology. But even here a question arises, why do we really need these technologies.
      1. leon-iv
        leon-iv 17 October 2013 09: 07
        +2
        Neither be considered justification, allegedly obtaining technology. But even here a question arises, why do we really need these technologies?

        How quickly did they see?
        google STX super shipyard spb. Zenith BIUS.
        Further, another question now in Syria is better with or without the Mistrals?
  9. Strashila
    Strashila 17 October 2013 08: 51
    +3
    The situation with Mistral showed ... that there aren’t any super ship technologies there ... half of the ship was built at the Russian shipyard on the move. If I honestly did not understand the author of the article ... the essence of the above changes in the course of the paragraph:
    “We will, of course, talk about the Mistrals. Here we need to make a small digression. I am very saddened by people who think in patterns. There is such a "wise thought" that all weapons should be made in Russia. The idea, of course, is correct, but this is a template. Even better is the idea that all "goods" should be domestic.

    Personally, my opinion is that it is necessary to use "to the maximum" foreign experience and developments in all spheres of life. But one cannot follow the template that the western means the best. These thoughts seem to be simple. But they are very difficult given, not only to the bulk of the people, but also to many "big" bosses. "
    The author believes that our designers and manufacturers are stupid and do not follow the development trends of technology for a potential opponent ... but in addition to designers and manufacturers ... there is also a customer.
    It is the customer who forms, and what actually will be developed and produced, he uses it.
    And if the customer does not understand, and most often does not want to understand what he actually needs, then everything will not be nice ... especially if the proposed one has the prefix "unparalleled in the world."
    And with the Mistrals ... there was no care a woman bought a piglet.
    Why did they buy ... this is the secret of the universe and psychiatrists.
  10. ia-ai00
    ia-ai00 17 October 2013 08: 53
    0
    Russ69 SU
    ... a hotz, at least once to hear from the Morimans, a clear and intelligible justification, but what for we actually need him ...

    Most likely it is necessary to ask Mendel, NAFIG ..., and in general, no matter what he does, what idea he would not "give birth", I just want to ask him - NAFIGA?
  11. KazaK Bo
    KazaK Bo 17 October 2013 08: 54
    +5
    PS ... in addition to the above ... And FOR ALL OF YOUR DECISIONS, THE MANAGERS HAVE TO RESPOND ... AND NOT ONLY ON TWITTER with a strictly defined number of typed characters ... but also a political career ... occupying an armchair ... money ... and when necessary, then under the articles of the Criminal Code ... Then it will be really a DEMOCRATIC STATE!
  12. Sergeant
    Sergeant 17 October 2013 08: 54
    +4
    Quote: Apollon
    ... And why they bought it, why it is so expensive and what they bought, apparently only Medvedev knows ...


    The one who planned it knows: Medvedev is only a performer.

    In general, such "waste" may well be qualified as sabotage against Russia.
    Purpose: to spend Russian finances as much as possible and no matter where and for what ...
    The main thing is that Russia has less money left for development ...
    I admit that other, financially large-scale and supposedly "prestigious" (with a "vague" perspective) projects, including sports, but essentially ruinous for the country, from the same category (sabotage).
    1. Airman
      Airman 17 October 2013 10: 15
      +4
      Quote: Sergeant
      ..
      I admit that other, financially large-scale and supposedly "prestigious" (with a "vague" perspective) projects, including sports, but essentially ruinous for the country, from the same category (sabotage).

      Like sending the Olympic flame to the north pole, into space. Our management is ready to spend money anywhere (it’s easier to steal, who will count), but not on pensioners, housing (social, not commercial), education.
  13. My address
    My address 17 October 2013 08: 56
    +6
    Ah, yes, Smerdyukov only screwed up with the women.
    And he wanted to drive all the planes to one platform, all the tanks to another, put civilians into the field kitchens and the rest is not considered. And in Mongolia in 70's, in anticipation of a conflict with China, tanks were dispersed and disguised, and the cooks were holding AKMs near the tanks. Here were fools! Probably it was necessary to keep the tanks right on the border and sides to the Chinese, and to the kitchen so to dial from the PLA.
  14. leon-iv
    leon-iv 17 October 2013 08: 58
    +3
    Mdya our experts.
    And now the question. Would it now be easier for our Navy off the coast of Syria with or without a mistral?
    1. PLO
      PLO 17 October 2013 13: 37
      -1
      And now the question. Would it now be easier for our Navy off the coast of Syria with or without a mistral?

      of course "WITHOUT"
      Another unnecessary auxiliary ship that needs to be covered.
      1. Wedmak
        Wedmak 17 October 2013 13: 54
        +1
        DVKD is far from an auxiliary ship. And from whom to cover something?
        1. PLO
          PLO 17 October 2013 14: 24
          0
          DVKD is far from an auxiliary ship. And from whom to cover something?

          Mistral is an absolutely auxiliary ship. He is not able to protect himself.

          And from whom to cover something?

          Well .. for example from the US squadron. request
          1. Wedmak
            Wedmak 17 October 2013 15: 10
            +3
            Mistral is an absolutely auxiliary ship.

            Auxiliary are tug boats, minesweepers, transports. And Mistral, although a large barge, but with an air wing and amphibious assault forces. Yes, and can perform the functions of a control center. It is somehow strange to call it auxiliary.
            Well .. for example from the US squadron.

            Our fleet is virtually unprotected from a well-planned attack by a US squadron. It is protected by something else - missiles with nuclear weapons "behind".
            1. PLO
              PLO 17 October 2013 15: 41
              0
              Auxiliary are tug boats, minesweepers, transports. And Mistral, although a large barge, but with an air wing and amphibious assault forces. Yes, and can perform the functions of a control center. It is somehow strange to call it auxiliary.

              Well then, okay.
              with the same success, the BDK can be called warships.
              only here we are not falsifying reporting.

              and the Mistral air wing, of course, is not a completely useless thing, but it does not justify the presence of this ship in the squadron.

              Yes, and can serve as a control center

              you are not tired of repeating this mantra about the control center.
              Any use of Mistral as the headquarters of the group is justified only if the objectives of the connection include some sort of landing operation in which all the capabilities of Mistral will be involved, otherwise it is not needed.

              to manage the current squadron, the spaciousness of the current Atlantes or Peter the Great is quite enough.


              Our fleet is virtually unprotected from a well-planned attack by a US squadron. It is protected by something else - missiles with nuclear weapons "behind".

              stupidity.
              let’s give you a gun to Syria and you’ll go to the terminator and shoot rebels and say they say that if Russia shoots at you, Russia will use nuclear weapons. nonsense is not it.


              An exceptional display of the flag in the oceans is a necessary thing.
              but it is justified only in relation to old ships.
              if we initially understand that the new "combat" ship is suitable exclusively for displaying the flag, then we have made a mistake somewhere.

              Our fleet is virtually unprotected from a well-planned attack by a US squadron.


              no one says that our fleet must be more powerful everywhere than the American
              but the forces sent to the hot spot should be adequate
              if the task is to demonstrate strength, the mistral is useless.
              if our task is to stand aside and help Syria with intelligence, the mistral is useless.
              1. Wedmak
                Wedmak 17 October 2013 16: 19
                +1
                with the same success, the BDK can be called warships.

                And what, not fighting? Landing directly ashore, fire support - is. What else does?
                and the Mistral air wing, of course, is not a completely useless thing, but it does not justify the presence of this ship in the squadron.

                Does it justify in other countries? There are no more of them.
                Any use of Mistral as the headquarters of the group is justified only if the objectives of the connection include some sort of landing operation in which all the capabilities of Mistral will be involved, otherwise it is not needed.

                The peace enforcement operation is still useful. And the turntables are there. And the landing. And already control of the straits, islands and other territories - God himself commanded.
                to manage the current squadron, the spaciousness of the current Atlantes or Peter the Great is quite enough.

                I won’t argue, I haven’t seen, I don’t know ... I can admit that nevertheless it is necessary to introduce new management technologies, and Atlanta is not suitable for this.
                let’s give you a gun to Syria and you’ll go to the terminator and shoot rebels and say they say that if Russia shoots you, Russia will use nuclear weapons.

                This is real stupidity. You do not compare to shoot and fleet. An attack on a warship is an attack on a country. And the response can be the toughest.
                if we initially understand that the new "combat" ship is suitable exclusively for displaying the flag, then we have made a mistake somewhere.

                Why not. Autonomy is great, load capacity too. It will decorate some kind of exhibition or joint exercises of the countries (the latter is generally convenient - I loaded the brigade of marines with equipment and sailed.).
                1. PLO
                  PLO 17 October 2013 16: 34
                  0
                  And what, not fighting? Landing directly ashore, fire support - is. What else does?

                  all this must be ensured.
                  otherwise the Mistral will be sunk on the way.

                  Does it justify in other countries? There are no more of them.

                  and in other countries it justifies
                  remember the composition of the American AUG which approached the coast of Syria.
                  that’s precisely how she was able to defend her landing ships and ensure landing from practically any forces in the region


                  The peace enforcement operation is still useful. And the turntables are there. And the landing. And already control of the straits, islands and other territories - God himself commanded.

                  whom and where did you gather to force peace in the world?


                  I won’t argue, I haven’t seen, I don’t know ... I can admit that nevertheless it is necessary to introduce new management technologies, and Atlanta is not suitable for this.

                  new technologies can be implemented anywhere.


                  This is real stupidity. You do not compare to shoot and fleet. An attack on a warship is an attack on a country. And the response can be the toughest.

                  OK. Suppose the Americans are given the task of taking Damascus. landing began.
                  what will you do? stand aside and defend nuclear weapons?


                  Why not. Autonomy is great, load capacity too. It will decorate some kind of exhibition or joint exercises of the countries (the latter is generally convenient - I loaded the brigade of marines with equipment and sailed.).

                  what are you talking about belay
                  those. Mistral is suitable only to show exhibitions and to demonstrate the flag at joint exercises?
                  there can be no worse review for him
                  1. Wedmak
                    Wedmak 17 October 2013 17: 38
                    0
                    otherwise the Mistral will be sunk on the way.

                    Mistral does not approach the shore.
                    Remember the composition of the American AUG which approached the coast of Syria.

                    Yeah ... and something dangled no less than 400 km from the coast. They didn’t dare to go into the jaws of BAL.
                    what will you do? stand aside and defend nuclear weapons?

                    This is generally nonsense.
                    there can be no worse review for him

                    But why is the worst? To criticize all specialists ...
                    1. PLO
                      PLO 17 October 2013 17: 57
                      0
                      Mistral does not approach the shore.

                      Does he teleport?
                      if you're talking about boats, then who will protect them?


                      Yeah ... and something dangled no less than 400 km from the coast. They didn’t dare to go into the jaws of BAL.

                      you probably still mean the Bastion.
                      and they did it right that they didn’t poke around.
                      but they, unlike us, had the opportunity to ensure the safety of their landing ships.

                      This is generally nonsense.

                      bullshit is a fairy tale about landing operations in the oceans where our interests intersect with those of NATO


                      But why is the worst? To criticize all specialists ...

                      are you probably about the domestic shipbuilding cheese wink
      2. leon-iv
        leon-iv 17 October 2013 14: 39
        +1
        Wiiiii oga brothel afloat
        And helicopters are so shit, but MP? Which comfortably lives there. And the hospital and the headquarters? Babysitting
        1. PLO
          PLO 17 October 2013 14: 50
          0
          Wiiiii oga brothel afloat

          except that.
          Undoubtedly he will brighten up the boring everyday life of an operational connection.

          And helicopters are so shit

          exactly.
          and how 8 Ka-29 or 8 Ka-52K will help there.

          What about MP? Which comfortably lives there.

          something strongly I doubt that in the Mediterranean at the moment there are significant forces of the MP.

          A hospital

          if they enter the battle, then I’m afraid there will be no one and no one to heal.

          and headquarters

          Well, headquarters is super.
          if I remember correctly then there 200 people in the operating room are placed
          wow how cleverly they will manage a squadron of 10-15 ships, of which only 3-4 are at most combat.
          Well, for each ship, 10-20 commanders. sad exaggerate of course but still
          1. Wedmak
            Wedmak 17 October 2013 15: 49
            +1
            and how 8 Ka-29 or 8 Ka-52K will help there.

            This is an example layout. After all, they can put 16 Ka-52K. And I think if they squeeze more. Noise can do a lot when landing.
            if they enter the battle, then I’m afraid there will be no one and no one to heal.

            Mistral will never enter a direct battle. In general, it should be beyond the horizon, beyond the reach of coastal complexes.
            1. PLO
              PLO 17 October 2013 15: 59
              0
              Noise can do a lot when landing.

              can of course.
              only this is a hypothetical landing.
              Russia currently has neither the ability nor the need to carry out such operations in the oceans.

              by the way they say that at the same time the mistral can take no more than 4-ex helicopters

              Mistral will never enter a direct battle.

              Mistral will not be allowed to join any battle.
              1. Wedmak
                Wedmak 17 October 2013 16: 21
                +1
                Russia currently has neither the ability nor the need to carry out such operations in the oceans.

                I agree with that. But learning to do it - is necessary.
                by the way they say that at the same time the mistral can take no more than 4-ex helicopters

                Quite enough. I don’t know the procedure for releasing turntables, but I think in 30 minutes it’s quite possible to take everything into the air.
                1. PLO
                  PLO 17 October 2013 16: 44
                  0
                  I agree with that. But learning to do it - is necessary.

                  You need to learn, but telling tales that the Mistral is exactly what yesterday was simply necessary in the Mediterranean is not worth it.
                  1. Wedmak
                    Wedmak 17 October 2013 17: 49
                    +1
                    And who tells the tales? Imagine how useful it would be in a conflict with Georgia? Of course, as part of a ship squadron.
                    In addition, we do not know what electronic equipment will be put on it.
                    1. PLO
                      PLO 17 October 2013 18: 00
                      0
                      Imagine how useful it would be in a conflict with Georgia?

                      I affirm that in a conflict with Georgia it would not have come in handy.


                      In addition, we do not know what electronic equipment will be put on it.

                      these are all excuses.
                      any communications vessel / reconnaissance ship will cope no worse
                      20000t ship is not needed for this
  15. predator.3
    predator.3 17 October 2013 09: 08
    +2
    . There was a clear order from Medvedev that ships should be bought by a certain date.

    Well, that bought. And why they bought it, why it was so expensive and what they bought, apparently only Medvedev knows. And for such words "cast in granite", if we had a "climate" softer, he would have to answer. And if we had a "climate" more rigorous, he would have already been engaged in the procurement of firewood and clearing snow from Siberia.


    Well, yes, Dimon is a "great naval commander and commander", as he grit, and the Shvets, and the reaper, and in the tune of the game!
  16. Lindon
    Lindon 17 October 2013 09: 08
    +1
    The author all goes around the bush.
    Yes, there are roads, but there is no concept for it, it’s not adapted for Russia, yes Medvedev has decided everything individually, etc.
    Immediately write Medvedev mastered a huge defense budget - 1,2 billion euros or 1,56 billion greens.
    Everything else is excuses.
  17. leon-iv
    leon-iv 17 October 2013 09: 10
    +3
    So I tried some water. Learn our shipbuilders !!!! 1111!
  18. forester
    forester 17 October 2013 09: 13
    +1
    Quote: Russ69
    Quote: forester
    On the TV channel "Arms" sailors of different ranks and positions discussed this vessel, their opinion was reduced to one thing: a self-propelled barge, a floating coffin, etc.

    So, I’m talking about that, that is one criticism. But there is no justification for the purchase ... Usually, for any event, there are at least two opinions, and here one and the same negative. Neither be considered justification, allegedly obtaining technology. But even here a question arises, why do we really need these technologies.

    The justification is offensively simple - stealing money, as in the case of the "lynx"
  19. Soviet_Union
    Soviet_Union 17 October 2013 09: 50
    0
    The shrunken phrase "we need Western technologies" is already hurting our ears. What technologies do they have there? yes there is nothing. All c ... wife \ bought in the USSR. And now they are pushing to us. And all sorts of Medvedevs, Seryukovs and similar ears amused and buy in the West, what you can do yourself.
    I personally do not understand such a policy. There is an opinion that everything was bought there with a bite, no one thinks, and is not responsible for anything, full democracy is shorter.
    1. Airman
      Airman 17 October 2013 10: 20
      +1
      Quote: Soviet_Union

      I personally do not understand such a policy. There is an opinion that everything was bought there with a bite, no one thinks, and is not responsible for anything, full democracy is shorter.

      Full DER. Democracy.
  20. Peaceful military
    Peaceful military 17 October 2013 11: 44
    +2
    Serdyukov scolded for his commitment to "the best world models." Shoigu is praised for supporting domestic producers. And I have to suffer, because it is difficult for people to think with their brains.
    Frankly, I liked the position of Serdyukov.

    I could not read further ... negative
    1. Peaceful military
      Peaceful military 17 October 2013 12: 03
      0
      After reading the comments, I realized that we were discussing the Mistral.
      I am neither a sailor nor a strategist, so I don’t undertake to judge the necessity of the Mistrals.
      BUT!
      Yesterday I saw a report about the launch of the Mistral and was amazed that it was bravuraly said that the means of communication, location and something there would be French. What are these magic tricks? This is sabotage! negative angry
      1. Wedmak
        Wedmak 17 October 2013 12: 21
        +3
        Yes, the journalists again all mixed up most likely. French really will be, not a connection or location. In my opinion, it was a system of monitoring the environment. This infection sees a man in the sea for five kilometers.
        1. Peaceful military
          Peaceful military 17 October 2013 12: 34
          0
          Yes, the journalists again all mixed up most likely. French really will be, not a connection or location. In my opinion, it was a system of monitoring the environment. This infection sees a man in the sea for five kilometers.

          Well, if so, thengoodsmile
  21. mitya24
    mitya24 17 October 2013 11: 58
    +1
    Unfortunately, and perhaps fortunately, we have to state the fact that Russia is a land empire (in the past, of course, an "empire") with all the ensuing consequences. They will probably minus me a lot now, but I will tell you my opinion, Russia has never been able to dispose of its fleet especially. Yes, there were examples (Gangut, Chesma, Navarin, Sinop), but they are isolated and due to, excuse me, the foolishness of the opponents, they are not indicative. The bitterness of defeat somehow outweighs. (You reread Tsushima and you want to cry). And now this problem is emerging in all its obviousness. And the purchase of "Mistrals" is a completely understandable event. How is the classic? "If the stars are lit, then somebody needs it." So they bought the mistralks to MAKE the budget money. It's easier and faster this way. Defense order is a serious thing.
    1. Wedmak
      Wedmak 17 October 2013 13: 35
      +2
      Russia is a land empire

      In general, yes, BUT ...! Planet Earth is the planet of the oceans. Without a fleet, including the ocean, we will have nothing to do on the world stage. We can surround ourselves with thousands of air defense systems and build hundreds of watchdogs, but we won’t get any goodies from that. Neither economic nor political. And if we have a fleet: cruisers, submarines, aircraft carriers, large BDKs, then ... Then everyone will know ... if he speaks not under international law, let alone threaten us, he will get a couple of things in his nose. cruisers within sight very quickly cool down.
  22. rudolff
    rudolff 17 October 2013 15: 32
    +3
    Only in the last month this ship could be used twice. The first is the provision of chemical weapons inspectors in Syria. He could both deliver the necessary equipment and machinery, and provide combat cover on the ground and from the air. To organize such an operation by other forces, a couple of BDK pr. 775, Kuznetsov with turntables, and possibly one hospital would be needed. The second is the evacuation of the embassy from Libya during the last night attack. Miraculously, the legs were taken away. Moreover, a similar situation can happen at any time and not only in Libya.
  23. Clueless
    Clueless 17 October 2013 15: 49
    +5
    Bullshit, not an article. It makes sense to compare Mistral with our ships, if we would have built it like that for 10-15 years, and would have cost several times more.

    And as for fuel, this is also nonsense, at one time some zhurnalyugi threw a duck and away we go. Yes, the requirements for oil and fuel are higher, and what’s bad about it (but not so much that when pouring a worse quality, everything will straighten up, military equipment is all the same, the tolerances there are very large)? Or is it already shitty that our manufacturers will have to invest in the modernization of their production and finally make a quality product?

    We have no use for such ships? And in fact, with what fright did you author me "disrespectful" to determine the influence of Russia only by our territory? If necessary, we will transfer our influence to other countries, now there is no current for this fleet necessary, and Mistral is just one of the links in this chain.
    1. Wedmak
      Wedmak 17 October 2013 16: 23
      +2
      If necessary, we will transfer our influence to other countries, but now there is no current for this fleet, and the Mistral is just one of the links in this chain.

      By the way, the correct remark, Mistral is not in itself, but as a link in a large mechanism.
  24. rudolff
    rudolff 17 October 2013 16: 54
    +3
    Outstanding, even the fast-built Mistral will become fully operational in five years, not earlier. While they will equip it at our shipyard, while the marine version of the Ka-52 gosi will pass (there is generally silence on the transport), while the air wing will be fully formed. And if you imagine that such a ship would begin to be built with us, and from scratch with all the necessary research and development work, then a 10-15 year period is too optimistic. And it is not known what else they would eventually receive.
    We actually tried, now we do not know what to do with this "miracle". I'm talking about Ivan Gren. You can also recall our promising destroyer, the project of which has been "walking around the offices" for many years.
    While we are being fed with the bright prospects of nuclear destroyers, all-medium aircraft carriers, modular platforms, the fleet really continues to die. The rate of renewal (even for ships in the sea zones) is lower than the rate of incapacitation of the aged. And here at least two new ships of the ocean zone. So far, we are not building anything "heavier" than frigates. The only thing, when ordering the Mistrals from the French, I would write in the contract and the arrangement of the base of these ships. Let the French do everything on a turnkey basis. It will be a pity to spread rot on their resource on roadsteads, if we do not have time to finish the mooring front with infrastructure in Vladik by their arrival.
  25. Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 17 October 2013 17: 38
    0
    The ugliest ship Soviet and Russian fleet from Peter to the present day.