Military Review

Rocket and space industry of Ukraine: ordered to survive?

90
Rocket and space industry of Ukraine: ordered to survive?

The rocket and space industry of Ukraine - one of the leading and knowledge-intensive branches of the domestic industry during the times of the USSR, is experiencing far from the best times. An extremely painful blow to it threatens to become Ukraine’s future signing of the Association Agreement with the EU.


The fact is that, historically, the rocket and space industry of Ukraine was created in close cooperation with the republics of the former USSR, and not with the European powers. The “lion's share” of the manufactured products is focused on the Russian market. Official Kiev still hopes to continue full-fledged cooperation with Russia without customs barriers and after the Vilnius summit.

On September 30, President V. Yanukovych signed the law “On Approval of the National Target Scientific and Technical Space Program of Ukraine for the 2013-2017 Years”. The total budget of the program is 2,58 billion UAH., Including 1,12 billion UAH. from the state budget of the country. If you calculate the annual costs, you get about 512 mln. For comparison: the federal space program of Russia for the period up to 2015 of the year provides for expenses in 1,2 billion dollars [9,828 billion UAH.] Per year.

When planning expenditures for the space program, the government of Ukraine clearly did not take into account the situation with the current filling of the state budget, as well as how domestic industrialists will have an impact on the free trade zone with the EU.

It is characteristic that the notorious “multi-vector” foreign policy of official Kiev penetrated into the approved space program. Ukraine plans to develop international cooperation with the Russian Federation, EU countries, Brazil, Canada, Belarus, USA, Kazakhstan. But is it realistic to argue about the simultaneous receipt of benefits in different directions in conditions when the CU countries inevitably impose restrictive measures for Ukrainian exports in the form of protective duties and the question of the effect of an agreement on a free trade zone in the CIS?

One of the most used today for launching satellites, the Zenit-3SL launch vehicle, produced in Ukraine, has an upper stage DM produced by the Russian Rocket and Space Corporation Energia.

To date, on the basis of an intergovernmental agreement, the Ukrainian-Russian corporation Cosmotrans is operating, serving launches of the launch vehicle co-production Dnipro at Baikonur.

The Ukrainian side in May of this year noted the need to continue cooperation in the space sphere with Russia and Kazakhstan. Ukrainian Prime Minister Yuriy Boyko said that the country “needs access to the Vostochny space center to participate in large-scale space research and development projects”. In this connection, cooperation with Russia will be developed both in the construction of a cosmodrome, and in the creation of heavy rockets, and then their launches. Then, the Ukrainian Ambassador to Kazakhstan, Oleg Demin, reported on an agreement reached with Astana on the joint development of Baikonur.

The Russian side, in turn, offered Ukrainian colleagues promising participation in the development of a heavy launch vehicle for flights to the Moon. Russia understands that losing the scientific and technical potential that was created in the Soviet times on the basis of Yuzhmash and Yuzhnoye Design Bureau would be simply unwise. Do Ukrainian authorities think so? One gets the feeling that they have no such awareness.

It is possible to talk about the dense scientific and technical cooperation of Russia, Ukraine, Belarus and Kazakhstan only under the conditions of the Customs Union, which provides a special tax regime and a single preferential amount of import duties for rocket and space products for all participants of industrial cooperation.

It is not difficult to assume that under the conditions of the “hysteria” that has swept over Ukraine against the country's full participation in the CU, there is a very fragile ground for the intergovernmental agreements of Ukraine with Russia and Kazakhstan in the space sphere. There have already been reports in the media about the possible closure of the joint Dnepr program due to a pause in the launches. The Dnepr launch vehicles are nothing more than taken off-line and upgraded PC-20. However, there are difficulties already in Russian-Kazakhstan relations, and the question lies in the plane of ecology. Dnepr flies on a heptyl that is quite toxic to the environment, because of which Kazakhstan presented Russia with a lot of complaints (Angara and Zenit engines run on an oxygen-kerosene mixture).

The question of financing promising space research continues to remain difficult. Today, instead of the time-tested Baikonur, the Ukrainian side is reorienting to launches from the distant Brazilian cosmodrome Alcantara in the framework of the Cyclone-4 project, the Ukrainian-Brazilian project is being credited by Russian banks. In particular, in 2011, the Sberbank of Russia and the State Enterprise of Ukraine "Design Bureau" Yuzhnoye "them. M.K. Yangel ("KB South") signed an agreement on a long-term loan in the amount of 260 million US dollars. Guarantees for this loan were provided by the Government of Ukraine.

For some reason, Europeans are not in a hurry to lend Ukraine leverage in the form of financial assistance for the development of high-tech industries, which include the rocket and space industry. The answer to the question of why this is happening lies in the plane of geopolitics and geo-economics.

In the EU, in contrast to Russia, they are not interested in maintaining a high-tech research and production base in Ukraine as a competitor to their own similar industries.

The pro-European orientation of the Ukrainian elite has already caused serious damage to the Ukrainian-Russian industrial relations in the field of space development. Due to the unsettled customs duties and the reluctance of the Ukrainian side to fully join the Eurasian economic space, the management systems for Soyuz and Protons produced by the Ukrainian association Kommunar will now be produced by Moscow and Yekaterinburg.

Such a duplication of high-tech Ukrainian production facilities in Russia is just a means to ensure reliable and uninterrupted (independent of the European experiments of official Kiev) manning the necessary units of reliable rockets for manned and cargo launches.

It is sad that many workers in the country's rocket and space industry who are losing their jobs because of a reduction in orders in Russia are being taken hostage by the unreasoned “European” choice of the Ukrainian authorities.

Russian President Vladimir Putin quite clearly indicated the need for close integration within the framework of the CU and the Eurasian Economic Space: “I can hardly imagine how Ukraine’s rocket and space industry will develop. She is very solid, and the rocket industry and aviation. It seemed to me that if we, within the framework of a single economic space, together determined some principles, then, for example, talking to Europeans with us as part of Russia - Ukraine - Kazakhstan - Belarus would be much more difficult than individually, especially in direct relations with only one Ukraine. ”

But it seems that the representatives of the Russian powerful Olympus who are in captivity of the “pro-European” euphoria believe that the Europeans will allow Ukraine to further develop the rocket and space industry in the interests of Ukraine. They should have listened to the words of the Ukrainian astronaut Major General of the Air Force Leonid Kadenyuk: “In Ukraine, the space industry does not exist because of someone, not because of the state, but in spite of the problems that exist ... Besides, there are already problems with personnel. Young people do not want to go to work in the space industry because of low wages, mostly those who like this job very much are interested in the profession, and there are less and less of them. ”

Without close cooperation with Russia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, it is impossible to imagine the continued survival of the Ukrainian rocket and space industry. Full cooperation of such enterprises will take place only within the framework of the Customs Union and the Eurasian Economic Union.
Author:
Originator:
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  1. rugor
    rugor 17 October 2013 15: 44
    14
    - Do aliens exist?
    - Yes. These are Kazakhs!
    - Why are the Kazakhs?
    - Well, otherwise why do they need Baikanur ???
    1. ShturmKGB
      ShturmKGB 17 October 2013 16: 56
      19
      All grievances of the former republics of the USSR were invented in the West, put on the head of the unreasonable and poured into a stormy stream of anti-Russian propaganda ... hence the conclusion that Russia needs to block the path to this negative source and this tree of contention will wither!
      1. S_mirnov
        S_mirnov 17 October 2013 17: 22
        -1
        Unfortunately, the interests of the Russian people and the government of the Russian Federation do not coincide, therefore this tree is abundantly watered with social injustice and interfaith discord.
        1. domokl
          domokl 17 October 2013 19: 51
          11
          Quote: S_mirnov
          Unfortunately, the interests of the Russian people and the government of the Russian Federation do not coincide, therefore this tree is abundantly watered with social injustice and interfaith discord.

          How we love common phrases. It seems that something is written, but it seems like it doesn’t. Who do you call the Russian people? Those who live in Russia? Or those who have a Russian passport? Aligarchs or the homeless? Provincials or metropolitan? Workers, employees or peasants?
          At some rally, your words might have been taken seriously, but here if you please express yourself accurately, without common phrases and general concepts.
          1. Xroft
            Xroft 18 October 2013 00: 03
            +2
            The people are about 90% of the inhabitants of Russian cities / villages, middle and lower classes (just 90% if not more); their interests do not coincide with 10% of the rest of the people; they include: liberals (pro-Western, * political
            immigrants, etc.) whose goal is to destroy the country and take the place of modern elites in order to continue enrichment at the expense of the people; a modern bureaucratic / ministerial apparatus from the middle to the highest (all those who have access to any enrichment options by cutting the wealth of the USSR and labor modern workers from the ability to steal 5 meters of pipe to 8 billion thefts from the budget) radicals (ideas about the imamat of Ichkeria, etc.) who do not want the United State, former criminals who legalized their income (part of the senior staff) and other atavisms of a sick society in the form of Pussy riot, Polonsky, etc. .... Clear enough?
          2. S_mirnov
            S_mirnov 18 October 2013 16: 32
            0
            Quote: domokl
            At some rally, your words might have been taken seriously, but here if you please express yourself accurately, without common phrases and general concepts.

            Yes, it’s easy, the Russian People is everyone who lives on the territory of Russia ready to sacrifice their Life for the protection of the Russian land and future generations. Clear enough?
      2. piotr534
        piotr534 17 October 2013 18: 50
        +6
        All grievances of the former republics of the USSR were invented in the West, put on the head of the unreasonable and poured into a stormy stream of anti-Russian propaganda ... hence the conclusion that Russia needs to block the path to this negative source and this tree of contention will wither!
        This tree of contention would not have grown if the UNREASURABLE had BRAINS! And then they turn like a weather vane for momentary profit, forget about the roots, are ready to sell themselves to hell if only to annoy Russia. A normal person should have principles and conscience.
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. PSih2097
        PSih2097 18 October 2013 02: 32
        0
        ShturmKGB
        Russia needs to block the path to this negative source and this tree of contention will wither!

        if only so ...
      5. DimychDV
        DimychDV 18 October 2013 03: 48
        0
        You forgot the inner power-loving and voluptuous. Those who go to the reserve not for the love of hunting, but because everyone cannot, but I can ... Of course, these were brought up, and then carefully selected according to the Dulles doctrine. Or maybe the doctrine and selection does not imply this: as soon as they grow up, they themselves will trample on their own mass and who they want to crush.
        Isn't it from women's education that we have these problems? .. When, instead of solving a problem, they undertake to discuss it. And then they instruct the most illiterate, but grasping Armenians or Moldovans. They will help the ladies "master" money. But the performers don't care for how long to lay the asphalt in the autumn puddles. And the customers simply do not understand this.
    2. Realist58
      Realist58 18 October 2013 01: 22
      0
      Once upon a time, having learned that the roots of our family are in the USSR, I asked my grandmother (who always said that we),
      - "bah, what about the Ukrainians?"
      And she answered me:
      - "What are you, Ukrainians, these are not cut Bandera, but Russians."

      Friends, let's remember that there is no such country in Ukraine, it was not and is not necessary. There is, was and will be Little Russia.
      And let's write in our posts like that - Little Russia, and
      And such a nationality - Ukrainians have never been.
      Therefore, we write - citizens of Little Russia, Little Russians, or simply Russians.

      If you have any objections, first here;
      "500 seconds of the truth about Ukraine"
      http://seosait.com/500-sekund-pravdy-ob-ukraine-10-mifov/
      ... and then objections.
      1. Realist58
        Realist58 18 October 2013 01: 26
        0
        auto-moderation removes ho .... (Cossack forelock) am
  2. Kars
    Kars 17 October 2013 15: 46
    +1
    obtaining benefits in different directions under conditions when the CU countries will inevitably introduce restrictive measures for Ukrainian exports in the form of protective duties


    And for WHAT to introduce restrictive duties on the products of the space industry of Ukraine? Maybe in the Russian leadership (Belarus and Kazakhstan do not count, they are not like that) they think that under the guise of Ukrainian products in the Russian Federation they will drive accelerating units of EU production under the guise of Ukrainian products?))) )))
    1. 3935333
      3935333 17 October 2013 15: 57
      +3
      no, they won't, the Europeans will privatize it and squeeze it out, it seems to me that if Ukraine has, judging by the article (grandmas, our banks are investing there for a reason), human and production potential, then the main task of the European consortium is to "invest" the space industry of Ukraine. as competitors).
      1. Kars
        Kars 17 October 2013 16: 11
        +2
        Quote: 3935333
        no, they will not do,

        Then what is the point of the article?
        and what prevents Europeans from privatizing HER now? and what will change after the signing of the association agreement?
        Quote: 3935333
        . (spoiling us as competitors).

        Naturally, all twists and turns around only to spoil the Russian Federation.
        1. kotvov
          kotvov 17 October 2013 19: 46
          +1
          Naturally, everything revolves around only shitting the Russian Federation ..... it’s not just shitting, but weakening the competitor. What do you think, if you become a monopoly and row all the loot or share the same money even with Ukraine, do they need it? and there is still cooperation. here is the difference with the EU and Russia.
        2. domokl
          domokl 17 October 2013 20: 03
          +3
          Quote: Kars
          and what prevents it from being privatized to Europeans now?

          you're right, nothing bothers. And for even half the price, Ukraine will gladly sell this industry (it needs it just like long-range bombers were needed recently). Only Europeans don’t need this at all. Why? They have established production facilities, their own research centers and everything else. Production - piece.
          To save the Ukrainians? Their own in a crisis ... To save the Ukrainian industry? Why do they need another competitor? So, besides Ukraine, so far, Russia does not need Ukrainian launch vehicles ..
    2. bistrov.
      bistrov. 17 October 2013 18: 01
      +9
      Quote: Kars
      And for WHAT to introduce restrictive duties on the products of the space industry of Ukraine

      The fact is that Russia cannot risk its space programs, since by signing an association agreement Ukraine becomes an unreliable partner, due to a very likely sharp economic recession, as well as the growing influence of neo-fascists, which is fraught not only with a sharp confrontation with Russia, but and even civil war in Ukraine. Therefore, it makes no sense for Russia to take risks, and in this case it is safer to rely only on its own strength.
      1. morpex
        morpex 17 October 2013 20: 14
        +8
        Quote: bistrov.
        which is fraught not only with a sharp confrontation with Russia, but even with a civil war on the territory of Ukraine.

        I am living in Ukraine, I don’t know what? What kind of confrontation and what kind of civil war are you talking about? What finger is the thought sucked out of? Oh please! Do not judge Ukraine by the handful of frostbitten banderlogs that your media constantly shows.
        1. bistrov.
          bistrov. 17 October 2013 20: 54
          +3
          Quote: morpex
          I am living in Ukraine, I don’t know something? What kind of confrontation and what kind of civil war are you talking about?

          Do you happen to graze sheep somewhere in the Carpathian mountains? So go down from the mountains. Listen to the calls of Tyagnibok, Farion and their packs, look at the old and young Bandera marching around Kiev, find out how many fighters they have recruited, look at their campaign tents sticking out on every corner in all settlements and then you will realize that the split in Ukraine is close as ever. Or are you going to lick their heels and accept their ideology? Personally, I don’t, I’d better take a gun and put them a couple of pieces before they kill me.
          1. morpex
            morpex 17 October 2013 21: 33
            +3
            Quote: bistrov.
            Do you happen to graze sheep somewhere in the Carpathian mountains?

            Well sho you for .. yatskaya Mnera splashing saliva into a person? Mom and Dad did not teach a good tone? It’s unfortunate ... But in general, from Kharkov region, we ...
            Quote: bistrov.
            Listen to the calls of Tyagnibok, Farion and their packs,

            Yana must be judged by this pack about the whole of Ukraine ... By the way, as I understand it, you are listening to them ... fool
            Quote: bistrov.
            find out how many fighters they recruited

            We have none. Do you have a lot?
            Quote: bistrov.
            look at their propaganda tents sticking out on every corner in all settlements and

            I don’t read makolatura. As the unforgettable professor Preobrazhensky used to say: "Into her oven Zina!"
            Quote: bistrov.
            Ukraine’s split is closer than ever.

            The split in the minds of our woeful politicians and since you are zombie ...

            Quote: bistrov.
            are you going to lick their heels and embrace their ideology?

            Fair? I’m not going to. But you don’t need to strain the people in a civil war. Do not cry trouble in your own house. Remember? So, do not express your delusional mislations here. I’ve already gotten all kinds of negativity pouring from mouths like you ..
            Quote: bistrov.
            Personally, I don’t, I’d better take a gun and put them a couple of pieces before they kill me.

            I think that reason will prevail and the guns will remain in their cases. And mind you, there are also enough such "shooters" on their side. And they also know how to shoot. And they can plant a charge in your lobster. Do you need this?
            Yeah! Once again about the rams .. My grandfather, five years after the war, shot these banderlogs in the woods. Not everyone was shot ... I’m sorry ...
            And yet. For some reason, it seems to me that you never shot at a person .. Except that from a slingshot .. Believe me, this is an abominable thing. To kill .. And you say your hand will not tremble ... The little hands tremble .. And before and after...
            1. bistrov.
              bistrov. 18 October 2013 05: 50
              +1
              Quote: morpex
              generally from Kharkov region we ...

              Quote: morpex
              By the way, as I understand it, you are listening to them ..

              You are a blind person. It was here in Kharkov that memorial plaques were installed to the inspirer of the SS division of Galicia, Joseph the Blind, and the German lackey Shevelev. This vote in the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine gave 5% of the votes to neo-Nazi "freedom". And you say none. And before you can blink an eye, you will find yourself under the rule of neo-fascists. You need to travel less for earnings .------------------------------ Yes, I am closely following the situation in Ukraine. And it is quite alarming. It is a pity that as many in Ukraine simplify it, as many in Russia underestimate it.
              Quote: morpex
              And you say the hand will not flinch ... The little hands tremble .. And before and after ..

              Although I didn’t shoot a person directly, the psychological training I received allows me to do this, in addition, in my ancestral family all the soldiers who went through more than one war, and I think at a decisive moment my hand will not flinch.
              Quote: morpex
              Mom and Dad did not teach a good tone?
              And for the tone, I apologize, but they really hurt the lively amateurish comments.
          2. MG42
            MG42 17 October 2013 23: 14
            +2
            Quote: bistrov.
            So go down from the mountains. Listen to the calls of Tyagnibok, Farion and their packs, look at the old and young Bandera marching around Kiev, find out how many militants they have recruited, look at their campaign tents sticking out on every corner

            By the way, in Kiev, just the next UPA march took place on Monday 14 on October 2013.
            A march was held in Kiev in honor of the 71st anniversary of the creation of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army. Nationalists succeeded in collecting a record number of participants, for the first time since 2005, walk along Khreshchatyk, reports "Kommersant-Ukraine" in the material "Shire step".

            This year the organizers, the Svoboda party, managed to gather a record number of participants - about 25 thousand people. The militia representatives were practically absent from the action itself, however, militiamen and soldiers of the Berkut special forces were on duty in all nearby yards.

            After the speech of the leaders of "Svoboda" at the rally in Shevchenko Park, the protesters listened to the anthem and lined up in columns for the procession along Vladimirskaya Street. This year, for the first time since 2005, when the first march in honor of the UPA took place, nationalists managed to walk along Khreshchatyk, where they went down along Bohdan Khmelnitsky Street.


            http://podrobnosti.ua/society/2013/10/15/936085.html

            1. morpex
              morpex 17 October 2013 23: 58
              -2
              Quote: MG42
              By the way, in Kiev, just the next UPA march took place on Monday 14 on October 2013.

              But in your country, it’s not any better. In my opinion this is our common problem. So, let's stop arguing with each other who is thicker. We must deal with this ...
              1. MG42
                MG42 18 October 2013 00: 06
                +2
                Quote: morpex
                But you are no better in Russia either.

                Valera, I’m writing with a specialist as little as you like apparently judging by your profile, there below is my comment on my post addressed to you. I have in Russia? lol are you color blind do not see my flag? laughing "Color blind" is not an insult, but a diagnosis for a person with partial or complete color blindness who cannot distinguish some colors in the picture ..
                He took off the USSR flag while the option is being upgraded on the site, otherwise Rogers are on uniform, but under the USSR flag ..
                1. morpex
                  morpex 18 October 2013 01: 03
                  0
                  Quote: MG42
                  "Color blind" is not an insult, but a diagnosis for a person with partial or complete color blindness who cannot distinguish some colors in the picture ..

                  For your information, color blindness is in no way associated with partial or complete blindness. It simply doesn’t distinguish colors. This is so by the way. And I saw about the flag .. But you never know, many of us live in Russia and work for its good. Maybe you are there now. Now it’s clear why I took you like that? So, that blindness is on no side ...
                  Yes. Regarding a small bug or a big one, it doesn’t matter. I don’t worry about such things. So treat as you like ... yes good
                  1. MG42
                    MG42 18 October 2013 01: 16
                    +2
                    Quote: morpex
                    For your information, color blindness is in no way associated with partial or complete blindness.

                    I also missed one word in my quote, color

                    Color blindness is partial color blindnessis a type of violation of color perception.


                    http://metod-medic.ru/daltonism.html

                    http://medio.org.ua/дальтонізм-симптоми-і-лікування-
                    color blind

                    Almost all people with "Color blindness" can see colors, but it’s hard for them to distinguish certain colors. Not all people with color blindness have difficulty with the same colors - most cannot distinguish between red and green in poor lighting; some cannot distinguish blue from yellow; and a very small group of people has a condition such as “monochromasia,” in which they can only see black and white.

                    Color blindness of various species occurs in approximately 7% of men - and less than 1% of women.


                    http://www.bausch.ru/о-ваших-глазах/заболевания-и-нар
                    fixation / color-blindness /
            2. Nikaviz
              Nikaviz 18 October 2013 09: 40
              0
              The purest obscurantism .... !!!!! "Cannon fodder ..."
        2. Arti
          Arti 17 October 2013 22: 04
          0
          the thing is that the frostbitten Banderlog shouts anti-Russian slogans and now and then attack the veterans of the Great Patriotic War - how not to show this in the media. And when rallies take place in Sevastopol, they are also regularly shown. And nothing else is happening - you can not show reports about how the inhabitants of Ukraine live for themselves and about Russia "do not think badly", they also speak well only in their own company.

          On the one hand, of course, it’s right, the growth of Russian sentiment with the help of Western media, which will give them out as Russia's attempts to undermine the situation in the country and prevent Ukraine from joining the EU, can develop into a split and civil war.
          1. morpex
            morpex 17 October 2013 22: 35
            +3
            Quote: Arti
            the inhabitants of Ukraine live for themselves and do not think badly about Russia, they also speak well only in their own company.

            Why only in "companies"? They are shouting at the top of their voices! I will repeat it once again. DO NOT JUDGE THE ATTITUDE OF UKRAINIANS ON THE BUSINESS OF A LOT OF STUNNED NATIONALS. We stop their processions in Kharkov in the bud. Why do they arrange marches in Sevastopol?


            Quote: Arti
            may escalate into a split and civil war.

            It can’t. As if someone didn’t want this scenario. Not everything is so bad as you think. And I look here a lot of respondents equate the situation in Ukraine with the situation in some kind of African colony, considering us as underdeveloped natives thirsty for blood.
        3. Gato
          Gato 17 October 2013 23: 51
          +2
          Quote: morpex
          Do not judge Ukraine by the handful of frostbitten banderlogs that your media constantly shows.

          Exactly. Judging by the media in the Russian Federation, a revolution will soon take place led by Navalny.
          We believe? belay
          1. morpex
            morpex 18 October 2013 00: 17
            0
            Quote: Gato
            Exactly. Judging by the media in the Russian Federation, a revolution will soon take place led by Navalny. Do we believe?

            I watch both your and our media. Not everything is going smoothly for you, but I don't see the revolution led by Navalny at close range. As, in principle, we do too .. We have already gorged on "orange oranges" ... In my opinion, you have another problem. Big country two big antagonistic religions of the world, which, in principle, cannot coexist in the world for a long time .. This is where the main threat is. Under the Union there was total control over them by the KGB, kept them in blinders. And now? And migrants from the Caucasus and Central Asia are also a problem ...
            1. Gato
              Gato 18 October 2013 01: 02
              0
              Quote: morpex
              Everything is not going smoothly with you, but I do not see the revolution led by Navalny point-blank

              hi
              Yes, I live in Kiev drinks
          2. Sergh
            Sergh 18 October 2013 01: 33
            +1
            Quote: MG42
            By the way, in Kiev, the next UPA march just happened on Monday, October 14, 2013

            PPC! I watched the video.
            A young herd of sheep with shepherds and matyugalnikami. The Iroquois are out of competition.
            Zbigniew Brzezinski can sleep peacefully.
            1. MG42
              MG42 18 October 2013 01: 38
              0
              Quote: Sergh
              PPC! I watched the video.
              A young herd of sheep with shepherds and matyugalnikami. The Iroquois are out of competition.

              This is not a complete PPC, I can post other videos, but there are words prohibited on the site, and the shepherd is Tyagnibok there ..
              By the way, chants there were not 2 meaningful in the evening ..
      2. Kars
        Kars 17 October 2013 20: 20
        +3
        Quote: bistrov.
        about the association, Ukraine becomes an unreliable partner

        What are you)) The Russian Federation cooperates with countries and is worse than Ukraine, even with NATO countries. And Ukraine is a little bit of an association of the signature - and on you, hello. Double standards.)))
        Quote: bistrov.
        the increasing influence of neo-fascists

        Well, why are you talking about Putin and his clique.
        Quote: bistrov.
        Therefore, Russia does not make sense to take risks

        So let him just not buy, but what about the duties?
        Quote: domokl
        you're right nothing bothers

        Wow.
        Quote: domokl
        .Only Europeans do not need this at all. Why?
        And why are they cooperating now? If it weren’t for the Sea Launch, something else would have been bent for a long time. Something logic is tempting you. By the way, in the EU, mostly private firms operate in space, and the EU, unlike the Russian Federation, operates for economic benefit, not pursuing political goals.

        Quote: domokl
        So besides Ukraine, and so far, no one needs Ukraine’s Ukrainian launch vehicles ..

        Why does Russia need a competitor?
        Quote: kotvov
        if you become a monopoly and row all the loot or share the same money even with Ukraine they need it? Russia was,

        It is still there, and this is not a conscious choice, but a consequence of the industrial policy of the USSR. According to competitors, it was answered above.
        1. bistrov.
          bistrov. 17 October 2013 20: 56
          +3
          Quote: Kars
          What are you)) Russia cooperates with countries and worse than Ukraine, even with NATO countries

          And you do not bend. Collaborating for the benefit of yourself is one thing, and depending on the unpredictable lack of integrity is another.
          1. Kars
            Kars 17 October 2013 20: 58
            +1
            Quote: bistrov.
            Collaborating for the benefit of yourself is one thing, and depend

            So it turns out the Russian Federation depends on Ukraine))))

            Quote: bistrov.
            unpredictable

            Well, why are you talking about the Russian Federation? You have to be more polite.
            1. bistrov.
              bistrov. 17 October 2013 21: 04
              +2
              Quote: Kars
              unpredictable

              The unpredictable lack is Ukraine and here everyone will confirm it.
              1. Kars
                Kars 17 October 2013 21: 08
                +1
                Quote: bistrov.
                Unpredictable Uncounted

                Yes, what are you talking about the Russian Federation and about the Russian Federation, and so is politically incorrect.
                Quote: bistrov.
                and here everyone will confirm it.

                Is this an indicator? And by the way, you lied. Everyone is me too. I will not confirm, and on the site there are not many mnogo shifted to the whole head great / United Russia.
                1. morpex
                  morpex 17 October 2013 21: 42
                  +2
                  Quote: Kars
                  Quote: bistrov. and here everyone will confirm it.

                  Quote: Kars
                  Everyone is me

                  AND NOT ME!
                  1. MG42
                    MG42 17 October 2013 22: 53
                    +3
                    Quote: bistrov.
                    The unpredictable lack is Ukraine and here everyone will confirm it.

                    Quote: morpex
                    AND NOT ME!

                    Morpeks, okay, you still write your name "Valery" in the profile with a small one, although it is also unclear what it would be for ?, well, since this type of "patriot" of Ukraine, then what is the name of a country with a small one ?? crying
                    Although Bystrov wrote about the "unfinished", but with a capital letter, although I do not approve of the country because I live here like a family, but you can easily write about the power as the lack of power in Ukraine throughout the entire independence, except that under Kuchma there were glimmers of adequacy ..
                    1. morpex
                      morpex 18 October 2013 00: 31
                      +4
                      [quote = MG42] Morpex, okay, you still write your name <Valery> [/ quote]


                      I'm sorry, sir. I'll get it right! And about the "patriot type" I'll say this. Is it bad to be a patriot of your Motherland? I was born here, grew up and live here at the moment, and it is unpleasant for me that some respondents of this site allow themselves to insult and humiliate Ukraine and throw mud at it. I have been here for more than one year, but I have never been able to say what is bad about Russia, because I know that PEOPLE live there. Decent, lovely, helpful, hospitable, hardworking. I know many. Let's put an end to this propaganda, with an army of stereotypes instead of arguments.
                      [quote = MG42] but here about power can be easily written as lack of power
                      Here I agree to all 100!
                      1. MG42
                        MG42 18 October 2013 00: 43
                        +2
                        Quote: morpex
                        Guilty, sir.

                        Now everything is normal. Plusan
                        Quote: morpex
                        and because I know that PEOPLE live there. Decent, cute, helpful, hospitable, hardworking. I know many.

                        In the Kharkov region, and in particular .. drinks
              2. Cristall
                Cristall 17 October 2013 23: 26
                +2
                I do not confirm!
                and generally against any insults against my country. Have respect winked
        2. domokl
          domokl 18 October 2013 06: 11
          0
          Quote: Kars
          And why are they cooperating now? If it weren’t for the Sea Launch, something else would have been bent for a long time. Something logic is tempting you. By the way, in the EU, mostly private firms operate in space, and the EU, unlike the Russian Federation, operates for economic benefit, not pursuing political goals.

          Really? Are you really reading only what speaks for your point of view? Ukrainian missile launchers are nothing more than old Satan missiles. And they are now quite formidable weapons. Destroying the integration of Ukraine with Russia, the West solves very political problems laughing Do not distort very competently ...
          Quote: Kars
          Why does Russia need a competitor?

          Exactly. In the current situation, we are not rivals, but co-owners. In the after-signed, Ukraine becomes an unreliable partner. And it’s stupid to risk us.
          You, I already wrote, periodically slip to the level of bazaar trading, excuse me. Conversation on the principle yourself ... Nobody is against your choice. Cloth is expensive, as they say. Conversation is about specific cases in a particular area. Euro integration in any case will lead to curtailment joint programs. This is an axiom. And in the article, an attempt is made to a promising look at the future ...
    3. domokl
      domokl 17 October 2013 19: 57
      +5
      Quote: Kars
      ? Maybe in the leadership of the Russian Federation (Belarus and Kazakhstan do not count, they are not like that) they think that under the guise of Ukrainian products in the Russian Federation they will drive accelerating units of EU production under the guise of Ukrainian products?))))))

      Do not exaggerate. Everyone understands that with the signing of the agreement the next step should be integration of the Ukrainian industry with the European one. And now the question is whether the vehicle needs to be risked in the field of defense (you must admit that missiles are on the 99% defense) and put risks in the latest developments . Risks of the fact that these developments will float to the West. That, in general, is already happening in some respects ...
      1. Kars
        Kars 17 October 2013 21: 01
        +1
        Quote: domokl
        Don’t exaggerate. Everyone understands that with the signing of the agreement the next step should be followed - the integration of Ukrainian industry with European

        Where is it written? And in what way should it be expressed?
        So far, in addition to some elements of standardization, and only for goods that will be delivered to the EU.
        Quote: domokl
        I. Risks that these developments will float to the West

        Through the Russian Federation they will sail away the same way, if not faster.
        Quote: domokl
        What, in general, is already happening in some positions ...

        Are you talking about your cooperation with China?
        1. roial
          roial 17 October 2013 21: 58
          +1
          Quote: domokl
          Quote:
          I. Risks that these developments will float to the West


          While you are trolling, they are already sailing

          China has purchased Russian amphibious hovercraft.
          1. Gato
            Gato 17 October 2013 23: 59
            +1
            Quote: roial
            While you are trolling, they are already sailing

            So far, armored personnel carriers have sailed away from Ukraine (they cannot even sail). And from the Russian Federation, aviation technologies go to India and China in a wide flow.
          2. domokl
            domokl 18 October 2013 06: 20
            0
            Quote: roial
            While you are trolling, they are already sailing

            laughing Thank you. I was a Putinoid, I was a Natsik, I don’t remember a tolera, but I probably also was, now a Troll. There was quite a bit to a harmonious personality ... Such a person and everyone laughing
        2. domokl
          domokl 18 October 2013 06: 16
          0
          Quote: Kars
          Through the Russian Federation they will sail away the same way, if not faster.

          Here is the answer. Why do you need this cooperation? And why do we need it? We have missile carriers, just like everything else. Angara or Proton are quite normal carriers. And there will be no problems with the environment.
          But the conversation is about, I repeat, what will happen to the space industry of Ukraine. Not Russia. Russia will replace carriers and that's it. And Ukraine? Why talk to us at the level do not care?
          1. roial
            roial 18 October 2013 19: 08
            0
            But the conversation is about, I repeat, what will happen to the space industry of Ukraine


            I do not think that something will change much, your horror stories like "Europe does not need a competitor" are somehow not impressive, but before that we were not competitors to them ??? Or did they have fewer opportunities ??

            No, of course, there are opportunities and there is a rocket of its own, but it’s an expensive one, and it’s of a different class (the thrown weight in geo-orbit is twice as much as that of the Ukrainian rocket)

            so we will occupy the niche of inexpensive rocket carriers with a cargo of 3-3.5 tones per GSO from the start.
    4. stranik72
      stranik72 18 October 2013 06: 16
      +1
      Why support the space industry is a competitor, and in the long run an enemy. It’s better to crush this industry right away. High duties and a gradual refusal to cooperate. I am sorry that it happened with Ukraine, our authorities are unequivocally guilty, only the peoples are not strongly protesting against this bacchanalia.
    5. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 18 October 2013 06: 54
      0
      Quote: Kars
      ) they think that under the guise of Ukrainian products in the Russian Federation they will drive overclocking units of EU production under the guise of Ukrainian products?))))))


      M. Zurabov emphasized that "Russia has a gigantic surplus in its foreign trade balance." So, the Russian Federation annually supplies foreign markets, first of all, this concerns energy products, 220-240 billion more dollars than it buys

      “Now this is already happening in the field of car building, helicopter engines ... That is, the process is inevitable, but it takes time,” summed up M. Zurabov.
      news.mail.ru/inworld/ukraina/global/112/politics/15243929/
      For you kars
    6. Gunsmith
      Gunsmith 18 October 2013 10: 06
      +1
      Production of booster blocks and we are doing well. What for do we need the EU and Ukraine? Moreover, the standards are different. No, it’s not rolling. Let the Ukrainians rent Sea Lunch from us (created for Zenith * and after unsuccessful Ukrainian-African-European launches ... sold to Russia) and continue their excrement there ... the sea-okiyan is big, it will take another couple of Zenit.
  3. saag
    saag 17 October 2013 15: 54
    +2
    "... The Ukrainian side in May of this year noted the need to continue cooperation in the space sector with Russia and Kazakhstan. Prime Minister of Ukraine Yuriy Boyko said that the country" needs access to the Vostochny cosmodrome in order to participate in large-scale space exploration and exploration projects. "
    Interesting things, because Zenit starts are not being built there, under the Angara and the Union, why are they not drawn to Baikonur, is there a start there?
    1. Lyokhin63
      Lyokhin63 18 October 2013 22: 32
      0
      Quote: saag
      Interesting things, because Zenit starts are not being built there, under the Angara and the Union, why are they not drawn to Baikonur, is there a start there?

      There, Kazakhstan will force Ukraine to pay, which Ukraine will not do. I think that if (when) Russia leaves Baikonur, the starts will be delayed by dunes. It's a shame.
      Quote: saag
      Prime Minister of Ukraine Yuriy Boyko said that the country “needs access to the Vostochny Cosmodrome to participate in large-scale space exploration and development projects”

      In general, it simply infuriates the arrogance of Ukrainian politicians. Finger wasn’t hit, and access to the new spaceport is already needed. In general, the fragments of the USSR amaze me - not only did the Russian Federation pay for the debts of the Union, but it should all the same be to blame for everything.
  4. major071
    major071 17 October 2013 15: 56
    13
    Again an article on the topic: "Who is Ukraine to live well with?" We started about the space industry, finished the TS. Tired of already discussing ...
    1. domokl
      domokl 17 October 2013 20: 08
      0
      Quote: major071
      Again an article on the topic: "Who is Ukraine to live well with?" We started about the space industry, finished the TS. Tired of already discussing.

      I don’t think ... An article about what they lost, or rather, countries will soon lose. And how much this whole camarilla will cost ...
      And with whom Ukraine has already been decided and only very naive people hope that something will change ...
      1. USMC
        USMC 17 October 2013 21: 07
        -4
        Quote: domokl
        I don’t think ... An article about what they lost, or rather, countries will soon lose. And how much this whole camarilla will cost ...


        this site pins me! everyone understands just what we lose! and no one analyzes what we get! one aviation and space bl ** b !!! firstly, these sectors of the economy DO NOT feed Ukraine! and secondly, they will have to modernize themselves, switch to new standards and be flexible in the world of competition! no one says that immediately "life will be good"! yes, in some areas of the economy it will be tough at first! but you need to get out of your small, relatively comfortable and lousy world and produce something that will be bought not only in Russia
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. Misantrop
          Misantrop 17 October 2013 22: 59
          +2
          Quote: USMC
          they will have to modernize, move to new standards and be flexible in the world of competition!

          The automotive industry has already been "modernized" to screwdriver assembly, pharmaceuticals - similarly, it is even inconvenient to talk about "modernized" shipbuilding. What's next for "upgrading"? what
          1. USMC
            USMC 17 October 2013 23: 54
            -1
            Quote: Misantrop
            The automotive industry has already been "modernized" to screwdriver assembly, pharmaceuticals - similarly, it is even inconvenient to talk about "modernized" shipbuilding. What's next for "upgrading"?

            I can’t say anything at the expense of pharmaceuticals and shipbuilding, because I don’t know, but there were already privileges for the automotive industry, and then there wasn’t enough brains to create something sensible, who is to blame ??? therefore, a used foreign car is preferable to a new domestic one. as they say do not confuse patriotism with idiocy. and secondly, as far as I know, then your car industry (AvtoVAZ) is also far from all well
            1. Misantrop
              Misantrop 18 October 2013 00: 02
              +2
              Quote: USMC
              privileges have already been granted to the automotive industry, but the fact that they themselves didn’t have enough brains to create something sensible, then who is to blame for it ???

              The all-terrain vehicle LuAZ BEFORE POR POR is in great demand among the population, despite even the regular *** full-time engine and the termination of its production (i.e. physical deterioration of cars, problems with spare parts, etc.). ALL cars on sale were disassembled instantly. Well, where is this car now? But no, because with its ridiculous price, it will easily pass where the coolest imported SUVs drown without bubbles and chances. Why are world leaders SUCH a competitor?
              1. USMC
                USMC 18 October 2013 01: 00
                -1
                Quote: Misantrop
                The all-terrain vehicle LuAZ BEFORE POR POR is in great demand among the population, despite even the regular *** full-time engine and the termination of its production (i.e. physical deterioration of cars, problems with spare parts, etc.). ALL cars on sale were disassembled instantly. Well, where is this car now? But no, because with its ridiculous price, it will easily pass where the coolest imported SUVs drown without bubbles and chances. Why are world leaders SUCH a competitor?

                so the "Volynian" was released until the beginning of the 90s, and due to the lack of demand (read - there was no money from the people) and the release was stopped. the car is good, I admit it, but it was not a competitor for the cool imported off-road vehicles, and they, in turn, were not competitors for the "Volynyanka" for the simple reason that they are generally in different market segments !!! tough uncles rode and ride on steep off-road vehicles and fishermen, hunters and residents of settlements where, in principle, there is no asphalt, in "Volynyankas"
                1. Misantrop
                  Misantrop 18 October 2013 09: 53
                  0
                  Quote: USMC
                  "Volynian" was released until the beginning of the 90s, and due to lack of demand (read - there was no money from the people) and stopped production.
                  It was produced back in the mid-90s. It was when the people really were running out of money. ZAZ "Tavria" of various modifications then stood at all car dealerships and it was possible to buy it absolutely without problems and queues, almost "for delivery". And behind LuAZ there were queues. What can I say if in the secondary market a used car cost a half more expensive than a new one from the car. And it didn't stagnate, which is typical. Itself just in those years was the owner of such a car, so I learned all its advantages and disadvantages firsthand. By the way, this device is still alive with its new owner (forester from Perevalnoye). Only he put on it an engine from model 3 of Zhiguli and does not know grief, climbing on it over the mountains of Crimea.
                  Quote: USMC
                  on the "Volynyankas" fishermen, hunters and residents of settlements cut through the fields and swamps where, in principle, there is no asphalt
                  There are practically no such cars (especially from the low-cost segment) so far, and the people have gotten more money since the mid-90s. Demand is still there, where is the car?
                  1. USMC
                    USMC 18 October 2013 10: 49
                    -1
                    Quote: Misantrop
                    There are practically no such cars (especially from the low-cost segment) so far, and the people have gotten more money since the mid-90s. Demand is still there, where is the car?

                    and Poroshenko along the way it is more profitable to stamp buses ... but these are problems because of the manufacturer! nobody pressed them from behind the hill; this car was unrivaled!

                    Quote: Misantrop
                    ZAZ "Tavria" of various modifications then stood at all car dealerships and it was possible to buy it absolutely without problems and queues, almost "for delivery"

                    so you answered my remark about "there was not enough brains". why didn't ZAZ disassemble it like that?
                    1. Misantrop
                      Misantrop 18 October 2013 15: 00
                      0
                      Quote: USMC
                      why ZAZ so did not make out?
                      They were dismantled in the same way as they were assembled. A buyer came to my salon with me, who had purchased this miracle of automotive engineering half a day before. Complaint - the third speed does not turn on. Checked - and really does not turn on. The reason turned out to be simple - on the gear of this gear in a box ... forgot to cut the teeth. In shock was not only the buyer, but also the sellers ... lol
                      Quote: USMC
                      Poroshenko along the way it is more profitable to stamp buses ...

                      I don’t know about buses, but LuAZ trolleybuses in the Crimea are available. Well, as for Poroshenko, I can’t believe that he doesn’t know how to count, if he still hasn’t gone broke. Stop production of a car in STABLE GUARANTEED demand? belay Moreover, as simple as a stool?
                      1. USMC
                        USMC 18 October 2013 16: 17
                        0
                        Quote: Misantrop
                        They were dismantled in the same way as they were assembled. A buyer came to my salon with me, who had purchased this miracle of automotive engineering half a day before. Complaint - the third speed does not turn on. Checked - and really does not turn on. The reason turned out to be simple - on the gear of this gear in a box ... forgot to cut the teeth. In shock was not only the buyer, but also the sellers ...

                        So am I talking about too? What prevented the production of attractive products in favorable conditions? request


                        Quote: Misantrop
                        I don’t know about buses, but LuAZ trolleybuses in the Crimea are available.

                        we have minibuses "Bogdana", and they also gather in Lutsk

                        Quote: Misantrop
                        Well, as for Poroshenko, I can’t believe that he doesn’t know how to count, if he still hasn’t gone broke. Stop production of a car in STABLE GUARANTEED demand? belay Moreover, as simple as a stool?

                        I'm just for! "Volynyanki" like the Uaz "loaf" (452) are unkillable leaders of their segment! but alas, only enough brains for "Slavuta" (I'm talking about domestic developments, not about car kits). true Cossacks "Forza" stamp, but I do not know anything about this creation request
                      2. Misantrop
                        Misantrop 18 October 2013 16: 41
                        0
                        Quote: USMC
                        Cossacks "Forza" stamp, but I do not know anything about this creation

                        Few people have heard about him. request
                        Quote: USMC
                        we have minibuses "Bogdana", and they also gather in Lutsk

                        "Bogdanov" is dofiga in Crimea, but I have not seen the designation of LuAZ on its nameplate (unlike trolleybuses)
                        Quote: USMC
                        I'm just for! "Volynyanki" like the Uaz "loaf" (452) are unkillable leaders of their segment! but alas, only enough brains for "Slavuta"
                        And then what does the brain have to do with it? Both cars are not imported developments. "Managers" should be driven with a filthy broom. As for ZAZ, I heard that really the cars were collected by drunks (no more fucking needed anywhere) and vocational school students. Because SUCH garbage in the end and turned out. And the "hands-on drivers" raked in ALL the profit that dripped to the plant. We drove ... request
                        I have the GAZ-21 itself of the second series (1961 release). Great unit, runs the same amount. By the way, on wide tires and with a modified engine, it’s not much inferior to LuAZ in cross-country ability, except that it’s almost twice as heavy and noticeable in size.
                      3. USMC
                        USMC 18 October 2013 16: 54
                        -1
                        Quote: Misantrop
                        And then what exactly is the brain? Both cars are by no means imported designs.

                        so the fact is that the two models will not pull the whole industry, but to come up with something new and just as successful, and at the same time, it will not be possible to establish high-quality performance ........
    2. bistrov.
      bistrov. 18 October 2013 06: 16
      +2
      Quote: USMC
      this site is pinning me! everyone understands just what we lose! and what we get no one analyzes! one aviation and space bl ** b !!! firstly, these sectors of the economy DO NOT feed Ukraine!

      But they determine the country's position in the world, whether the country can resist external influences, or it will turn into a raw material appendage and a supplier of cheap labor, which threatens Ukraine if the association is signed. You can live in any case, even in a dugout, eating one potato. The fate of the countries that have joined the "European Union", such as Bulgaria, Hungary, Romania, even Greece, the Baltic countries, testifies to this and causes regret. For example, in Bulgaria, which is experiencing a constant shortage of electricity, the "European Union" has banned the construction of a nuclear power plant that Russia wanted it to build, instead forcing it to purchase electricity from France and Germany, which each have 15 nuclear power plants. And the minimum pension in Bulgaria is only 75 euros. Do you see the difference? What "is supposed to be a priest, is not supposed to be a deacon."
      1. USMC
        USMC 18 October 2013 11: 24
        -1
        Quote: bistrov.
        And the minimum pension in Bulgaria is only 75 euros. Catch the difference?

        You saw in the news that in Bulgaria they raised a minimum of 2,5 euros and it became 75 euros. Have you studied this question much more deeply, what categories of citizens are given a minimum rate ??? and prices in Bulgaria are lower than in Ukraine, for example. in resort cities, apartment prices are lower than my city (~ 260 thousand town in Western Ukraine). in Crimea, this is unthinkable!

        Quote: bistrov.
        The fate of the countries that have joined the "European Union", such as Bulgaria, Hungary, Romania, even Greece, the Baltic countries, testifies to this and causes regret.

        I don’t even want to speak for Greek idlers, but tell me, why do you regret Hungarians, Romanians and Balts? By the way, they don’t complain)
    3. domokl
      domokl 18 October 2013 06: 25
      0
      Quote: USMC
      analyzes! one aviation and space bl ** b !!! firstly, these sectors of the economy DO NOT feed Ukraine

      My dear. You are a new person on the site, as I understand it. Ukraine has been dismantled for so many months on all issues, what to say is off topic is already bad news.
      Swearing annoyed everyone about anything. That is why comments are the same on a specific issue.
      1. USMC
        USMC 18 October 2013 10: 43
        -1
        Quote: domokl
        My dear. You are a new person on the site, as I understand it. Ukraine has been dismantled for so many months on all issues, what to say is off topic is already bad news.

        This is the 3rd account already, the first two banned. yeah new ...
    4. Lyokhin63
      Lyokhin63 18 October 2013 23: 01
      0
      Quote: USMC
      firstly, these sectors of the economy DO NOT feed Ukraine!

      Office plankton logic. Sitting on an armchair (material value) at the table (material value) eating deshyrak for lunch (questionable material value) and doing WORK, buy and sell (not value at all), receiving a bunch of American dollars (paper). You finally understand, you are ballast! Which in a critical situation will simply rest. And people who now work in komos and aviation in Ukraine (now almost for nothing) will ALWAYS be in demand! Because it's much easier to make stools after rockets than rockets after stools. You should pray for them, and not spit, "analyzers". Yes, I almost missed the topic of agriculture. What can I say. Everyone loves to devour something.
      1. USMC
        USMC 19 October 2013 00: 46
        -1
        Quote: Lyokhin63
        And the people who are now working in Komos and aviation in Ukraine (now almost for nothing) will ALWAYS be in demand!
        Quote: Lyokhin63
        You should pray for them, not spit, "analyzers"

        and it is commendable that they exist and work. and I do not neglect them at all! BUT they are not a reason to abandon the European vector of development!

        Quote: Lyokhin63
        The logic of office plankton. Sitting on an armchair (material value) at a table (material value) eating a hot dog for lunch (dubious material value) and doing WORK, buy-sell (not worth anything at all), receiving a lot of American dollars (pieces of paper). You finally understand, you are the ballast! Which in a critical situation will simply take a break.

        you can take whatever you want - your right (even though I work in the system of an unsuccessful Ukrainian army, not buy-sell). but if you think that people's happiness is to be hungry and ragged, but with a rocket (as in the DPRK for example), well, the flag is in your hands, but that does not mean that everyone thinks so
  5. Gato
    Gato 18 October 2013 00: 02
    0
    Quote: domokl
    And with whom Ukraine has already been decided and only very naive people hope that something will change ...

    One chronicler once stated:
    "The evil Tatars have swooped in. And the end has come to the Russian land ..."
    And where are these "Tatars" now?
    1. domokl
      domokl 18 October 2013 06: 32
      0
      Quote: Gato
      One chronicler once stated:
      "The evil Tatars have swooped in. And the end has come to the Russian land ..."
      And where are these "Tatars" now?

      In Crimea laughing But in fact, the conversation is not about the decision, the conversation about the breakdown of consciousness both in us and in you. Our generation still remembers its friends and colleagues. It perceives territorial division just like the games of politicians. But young people have already grown up in another world. And they really different. Ukrainians and Russians. Different peoples.
      I doubt that in 30-40 years the question of the unity of the people will generally arise. Not to mention the unity of the country fellow
      1. Gato
        Gato 18 October 2013 20: 58
        0
        Quote: domokl
        Ukrainians and Russians. Different peoples.

        Excuse me, but this is pure apocalyptic. Let's not confuse countries and states.
    2. Lyokhin63
      Lyokhin63 18 October 2013 23: 24
      0
      In America, what is there to think. The criminals were always calculated for motive. All this nonsense is beneficial only to them. It is a pity that the "brothers" -Slavs do not realize this to the last. Condensing ... brains taking place.
  • Gl00mDaem0n
    Gl00mDaem0n 17 October 2013 16: 02
    +3
    The correct article. +
  • Xroft
    Xroft 17 October 2013 16: 24
    +6
    Without the Russian Federation, the space industry of Ukraine will come to an end ... it seems that they have not signed agreements for a long time and (about an hour the conference was with Medvedev), but I don’t understand why this is for Russia? Ukraine moves with leaps and bounds in the EU, heroes the Nazis, etc. .... does not remind about those two chairs?
  • pahom54
    pahom54 17 October 2013 16: 33
    +5
    ... "... The EU, unlike Russia, is not interested in preserving a high-tech research and production base in Ukraine as a competitor to its own similar industries ...." ...
    Well, Ukraine, or rather its leadership, somehow behaves thoughtlessly. After all, by and large, the rocket science of the former USSR was fixated and interconnected as the Moscow Institute of Heat Engineering - the Ukrainian Yuzhnoye Design Bureau - Tsniimash, Moscow Region, Energy, Composite - and the Ukrainian Yuzhmash ... Why, even in parts of the Strategic Missile Forces there are still items made up for combat duty Dnepropetrovsk ...
    Speaking directly, Russia will ultimately do without Ukrainian developments and technologies, but how many billions of extra will it result in ??? BUT - still manage.
    But the Ukrainian developments and technologies are not needed in Europe ... There business comes into play, and they simply will not be allowed there. It means that??? Lost accumulated technologies are practically their senseless destruction. And the way Ukraine plans to "be friends" with both those and those - it will not work. Who is friends with the girl, he dances with her ...
    The last steps of Ukraine are that in matters of space rocket, that in matters of the aviation industry border on some kind of childhood. Yes, Russia needs your ANs, it needs your rockets and engines - BUT MORE THAN THEY DO NOT NEED ANYONE !!! Therefore, it would be better to create joint programs and use the scientific and technological potential of both countries to their advantage ...
  • Migari
    Migari 17 October 2013 16: 44
    +3
    I absolutely do not see the point in financial support for Ukraine, let them do what they want, explain to them what will happen and how much they can repeat, they made their choice, they don’t care how much they don’t support, anyway, the Russians dirtied all the entrances to them.
  • ATATA
    ATATA 17 October 2013 16: 59
    +1
    Yes, let the rulers of today's Ukraine roll wherever they want.
    Well cut off is a chunk at this stage.
    It was necessary to think about preserving the scientific potential of the Ukrainian region as a whole.
    To talented Ukrainian engineers, designers and scientists to offer moving to Russia, ordinary citizens of Ukraine to create the most comfortable conditions for resettlement to Russia (relatives !!!), Southeast including Odessa to take HOME. And you don't need to write: "Who will take it?" The residents of these regions themselves will take it!
    And to give the rest to the Poles and Hungarians with the Romanians, let them fight for their independence.
    Let them learn democracy and tolerance.
    About Western Ukraine: spit, grind spit on asphalt and forget.
    1. pensioner
      pensioner 17 October 2013 18: 28
      +1
      Quote: ATATA
      Talented Ukrainian engineers, designers and scientists are offered to move to Russia, to ordinary citizens of Ukraine to create the most comfortable conditions for resettlement to Russia (relatives !!!), take the southeast including Odessa HOME. And you don't have to write: "Who will take it?" The residents of these regions themselves will take it!
      And to give the rest to the Poles and Hungarians with the Romanians, let them fight for their independence.
      Let them learn democracy and tolerance.
      About Western Ukraine: spit, grind spit on asphalt and forget.
      hi good But Crimea-Squeeze !! And to prevent Ukraine from joining NATO.
    2. Xroft
      Xroft 17 October 2013 20: 38
      -1
      I repeat Crimea has always been Russian, and it will remain for them that the Khrushchev simply made nonsense * of a collective farmer * who does not see further than corn.
  • knn54
    knn54 17 October 2013 17: 10
    +5
    The Americans are interested in withdrawing the Zenit rocket from the field of view of third countries that would easily buy it in Ukraine. Therefore, close cooperation with Russia / CU is needed. The unique technical base and scientific potential of Ukraine must be fully utilized. Otherwise, the remaining minds will go to Israel or America.
  • roma2
    roma2 17 October 2013 17: 15
    0
    Already got these homegrown experts who

    The upcoming signing by Ukraine of the Association Agreement with the EU threatens to become an extremely painful blow to it.


    It’s enough to scare yourself. And then we are already afraid that Russia will bend without us laughing joke.

    But seriously, it is very doubtful that even after the signing of the association with the EU, all relations between Russia and Ukraine will be severed immediately, all contracts will be terminated, and a new "Berlin Wall" will be built.

    Yes, duties will increase, a ban will be introduced on some groups of goods, but what Russian "analysts" predict will not happen.
    1. morpex
      morpex 17 October 2013 20: 25
      +3
      Quote: roma2
      But seriously, it is very doubtful that even after the signing of the association with the EU, all relations between Russia and Ukraine will be severed immediately, all contracts will be terminated, and a new "Berlin Wall" will be built.

      Here, here ... The whole world is in all sorts of blocs and associations, but nonetheless countries trade with each other and develop joint projects, because it is mutually beneficial. And we, what? We continue to fall apart ... It's sad ..
      1. domokl
        domokl 18 October 2013 07: 24
        0
        Of course they won’t tear it all at once. Our enterprises in the space industry are too integrated with each other. The question is different. Moving to new customs and other relations will certainly force many Ukrainian and Russian companies to look for more profitable markets for their goods.
        Under European duties, for Russia, in particular, cooperation with ESA will become more profitable. It is simply cheaper to buy there. Yes, and technologies are more modern.
  • Mercenary
    Mercenary 17 October 2013 17: 25
    +2
    the government of Ukraine and the present and past as Gorbachev of Russia. the worse the better. sad
  • Jogan-xnumx
    Jogan-xnumx 17 October 2013 18: 24
    +3
    It's only the beginning...what On the basis of the Ukrainian rocket and space industry, together with mechanical engineering, chemical industry and metallurgy, we will open institutes for the development of washing pots, universities for cleaning households, academies of dishwashers and go to Europe! Integrate ... Uncle Shiklgruber once dreamed of making all the Eastern Slavs slaves, and transported ostarbeiters under escort. How happy he would be now ... And you don’t need to take it out, they themselves go, they ask ...
  • Russ69
    Russ69 17 October 2013 18: 56
    +3
    Quote: Jogan-64
    On the basis of the Ukrainian rocket and space industry, together with mechanical engineering, chemical industry and metallurgy, we will open institutes for the development of washing pots, universities for cleaning households, academies of dishwashers and go to Europe! Integrate ..

    Laughter, laughter, but the attitude of some politicians is clear ...
    A foreign politician suggested that the Yuzhmash plant produce dog collars. The political strategist Dmitry Vydrin wrote about this on his Facebook.
    "I recently met with the leaders of the Italian parliament. One of them, an elegant signor, straight from Celentano's songs, reassuringly remarked:" Your country has great potential for cooperation with the EU. There are good factories. For example, Yuzhmash could make excellent collars for dogs. " ...
    I thought that the translation was disappointing, or I didn’t understand the slang turnover. But to my clarifying question, the signor nodded his head and, closing long, nervous fingers around his throat, confirm that he named the collars. And he clarified in excellent English trash.
    I allowed myself a light discussion. “First,” I said, “you don't have to show yourself. And secondly, it is unlikely that Yuzhmash will be able to master collars - they have too little experience for that. We made only two collars - for Belka and Strelka, not counting, of course, the rocket itself, ”he shared.
    1. Jogan-xnumx
      Jogan-xnumx 17 October 2013 20: 01
      +1
      Laughter, laughter, but the attitude of some politicians is clear ...

      Alas, dear, request this is not a laugh. At least for my part. It's sarcasm. Irony. Moreover, it is very bitter. For it is very similar to the forecast of our near future ... hi
  • individual
    individual 17 October 2013 19: 17
    +5
    It must be admitted that the whole spectrum of our interstate cooperation suffers from the strife between Russia and Ukraine for the amusement of the western conductors of our gap.
    It is bad that Ukraine fell for Western "cookies", and Russia could not prevent this.
    We did well in distant Syria, but badly in fraternal Ukraine under our noses.
    1. Siberian
      Siberian 17 October 2013 19: 42
      +2
      Sergey Borisovich. You said correctly. It’s all worth it, but Russia and Ukraine need to work together in this and other sectors, regardless of their unnecessary ambitions (only to the delight of the West and the USA, they need this). Tugging in different directions will only bring harm to both countries.
  • ksv36
    ksv36 17 October 2013 19: 26
    +3
    Quote: Kars
    And for WHAT to introduce restrictive duties on the products of the space industry of Ukraine? Maybe in the Russian leadership (Belarus and Kazakhstan do not count, they are not like that) they think that under the guise of Ukrainian products in the Russian Federation they will drive accelerating units of EU production under the guise of Ukrainian products?))) )))

    Why would you integrate with ESS? "Already died, so died ..." Do you want to lie with your head in a geyrope, and put your backside, with all that it implies, on Russia? No way. Either yours or ours. IMHO.
  • put
    put 17 October 2013 19: 38
    +1
    Sad The people of Ukraine, the people of Russia have created a GREAT State! Bidding today. Who will buy Ukraine Russia or Europe.
  • Cherdak
    Cherdak 17 October 2013 19: 38
    +3
    And why bother with a garden: a targeted program to attract the necessary Ukrainian specialists from the aviation and space industries, the creation of science cities at the Design Bureau (modern sharashki), and if nationally concerned, the opening of kindergartens and schools with in-depth study of the Ukrainian language. At that time, the centers of the original mova, which will obviously be crushed in Ukraine by American expansion, will remain on the territory of Russia, and the Americans will envy the new Russian missiles with bright yellow-black stabilizers.
    1. Gato
      Gato 17 October 2013 23: 44
      +1
      Quote: Cherdak
      Americans will envy new Russian missiles
  • ksv36
    ksv36 17 October 2013 19: 58
    0
    Quote: put
    Who will buy Ukraine Russia or Europe.

    The question is asked incorrectly. Rather, it will be who will sell the Ukrainian government.
    Ordinary people feel sorry that we have what they have. They live, work, raise children, hope for something. And prostitutes at the helm with fat rage.
  • APASUS
    APASUS 17 October 2013 20: 05
    0
    Europeans do not need space Ukraine - they will not grow a competitor. In connection with European aspirations, they will have to part with Russia, Russians are afraid of dependence.
    The only way to help build their national programs to countries such as South Africa, Brazil, Indonesia, China.
    1. roial
      roial 17 October 2013 22: 09
      -1
      Quote: APASUS
      Europeans do not need space Ukraine - they will not grow a competitor.


      Yes? Well, and which country (enterprise) Ukraine is a competitor in the space industry ??? Or, again, diarrhea.
      1. APASUS
        APASUS 18 October 2013 20: 42
        0
        Quote: roial
        Yes? Well, and which country (enterprise) Ukraine is a competitor in the space industry ??? Or, again, diarrhea.

        Again, diarrhea - I do not understand, is it a sign of the mind or do I have to say something?
        Call me EU countries producing rocket launchers?
        Then we’ll talk ........ How many countries in Europe have such rocket technology
  • samoletil18
    samoletil18 17 October 2013 20: 57
    0
    Oh, how scary when the whole country is divided, especially politically and nationalistically. The Ukrainian elite has to ride from Russia to Europe and vice versa. To please the opinion of the Eastern and Western.
    Otherwise, the price of the issue is power, which for the pseudo-elite is much more important than ONE of the branches of the economy. Then how it goes, the main thing is to sit in your chairs.
    For Russia, as an option, it is easier to start luring industrial and scientific personnel until the latter have fled to the USA, Europe, South Africa, Israel, etc. But what is more valuable from equipment, as China did with us in the 90s, buying up cheaply. Since the Ukrainian RKO is all the same.
  • xomaNN
    xomaNN 17 October 2013 21: 17
    +2
    I had to work in the aerospace of the USSR on one of the Ukrainians. p / i. Now the plant is "lying". They are finishing small orders from the 60s. Nothing new is foreseen, because in the Russian Federation it completely localizes development and production at its enterprises.
  • scientist
    scientist 17 October 2013 22: 26
    0
    For the American Atlas missiles, the RD-180 engines have been supplied since 2000, despite the fact that they also launch military satellites with their help. What problems could there be in the supply of RD-170 engines for the Ukrainian Zenits, which are going to launch them from Baikonur? After all, the "Zenith" will probably not be deployed military satellites aimed against Russia.
  • alone
    alone 17 October 2013 22: 34
    0
    give these unfortunate experts a free rein, the whole world is turned upside down. In a language like a broomstick it is scratched and more than one weighty argument. One blah blah blah
  • avg
    avg 17 October 2013 22: 35
    +4
    Many citizens of Ukraine, in connection with its current western orientation, are forced to stop working in Russia, and these are not janitors and vegetable warehouse workers.
    Ukrainian engineers have already been asked from the Kamov firm. Telecommunications engineers and laser operators are now forced to leave Santel. Moreover, people leave for decades connected by friendship and teamwork. But what to do, Ukrainians are forced to close their access to all military developments, but Ukrainian politicians are opening a visa-free path to the EU. They sleep and see how they sit for good grandmothers in Brussels.
  • TAIM
    TAIM 17 October 2013 22: 58
    0
    time will tell. whether or not the space industry of Ukraine will survive. wait and see. all the more so the wait is not long.
  • Lyokhin63
    Lyokhin63 17 October 2013 23: 15
    0
    Why is the screensaver of this article a manned UNION? What nonsense. Ukraine has long dropped this topic. Author change the photo or prove that it has something Ukrainian.
  • Gato
    Gato 17 October 2013 23: 38
    +1
    Rocket and space industry of Ukraine: ordered to survive?

    What a passion even in the title!
    Probably, in the Russian Federation the space industry is developing stably and without problems - but only survives in Ukraine?
  • Cristall
    Cristall 17 October 2013 23: 42
    +2
    And yet, the country has this industry. Funding is even promised to increase.
    May God grant health to the Yuzhmashevs and the Yuzhnoye Design Bureau - they are generally well done. Heroes of our time.
    1. Lyokhin63
      Lyokhin63 18 October 2013 20: 25
      +1
      "In Ukraine, the space industry does not exist thanks to someone, not thanks to the state, but in spite of the problems that exist ..."
      I have great respect for my Ukrainian colleagues. With such "support" of their own state to survive for so many years. Only true fanatics should stay here. I think that even with a complete rupture of Russian-Ukrainian relations in the rocket and space industry, Yuzhmash will still show the Gay Europeans how to make rockets! soldier
      1. Gato
        Gato 18 October 2013 21: 09
        +1
        Quote: Lyokhin63
        Yuzhmash will show the geyropeytsami how to make rockets!

        With all due respect, God forbid.
  • Cristall
    Cristall 17 October 2013 23: 42
    0
    And yet, the country has this industry. Funding is even promised to increase.
    May God grant health to the Yuzhmashevs and the Yuzhnoye Design Bureau - they are generally well done. Heroes of our time.
    1. Gato
      Gato 18 October 2013 21: 11
      0
      Quote: Cristall
      Funding is even promised to increase.

      Ma sher ami - someone deceived you
  • vvp
    vvp 18 October 2013 01: 20
    0
    Quote: bistrov.

    The fact is that Russia cannot risk its space programs, since by signing an association agreement, Ukraine becomes an unreliable partner,

    It's funny
    Russia buys Mistral from France, Bombardier from Canada,
    and the United States sells booster blocks to launch military satellites.
    Of course, after all, these countries do not break into the EU and NATO: D
    1. Lyokhin63
      Lyokhin63 18 October 2013 20: 49
      0
      Mistrals are remnants of Serdyukovism. Money has already been paid, where to go ... NK-33 is a sale of Soviet heritage. Nothing funny.
      Quote: vvp
      Quote: bistrov. The fact is that Russia cannot risk its space programs, since by signing an association agreement, Ukraine becomes an unreliable partner,

      I completely agree. Ukraine, as a state, having turned away from Russia, has turned from a potential ally into a potential adversary. I am more and more surprised by our Russian rulers. It seems that from some point on, all state policy turned around 180 degrees. Maybe they sensed that they could repeat the fate of Saddam and Gaddafi, and the only wall in the world that can cover them is a strong and independent RUSSIA. What can not but rejoice.
  • vvp
    vvp 18 October 2013 01: 39
    0
    Quote: bistrov.
    Quote: Kars
    unpredictable

    The unpredictable lack is Ukraine and here everyone will confirm it.

    Then why do you live here?
    In Russia, there are even programs for the return of Russian-speaking citizens,
    hoisting then
    1. ars_pro
      ars_pro 18 October 2013 02: 26
      0
      Quote: vvp
      Quote: bistrov.
      Quote: Kars
      unpredictable

      The unpredictable lack is Ukraine and here everyone will confirm it.

      Then why do you live here?
      In Russia, there are even programs for the return of Russian-speaking citizens,
      hoisting then

      And even more who can be considered Russian-speaking in the framework of this program, which is aimed more at checkmarks, and not at people who consider themselves Russian but have some kind of a special mark in the passport of citizenship and nationality
    2. bistrov.
      bistrov. 18 October 2013 06: 27
      0
      Quote: vvp
      Then why do you live here?

      But this is my land! My great-grandfather, grandfather fought for it! I do not intend to leave it and run away, I must and will fight for it to the end.
  • Sergey S.
    Sergey S. 18 October 2013 02: 47
    +2
    Another year is another, and we will have to part with space projects in Ukraine.
    Space is a high-tech defense industry. nobody will give money for the development of these technologies in the wrong hands.
    The EU certainly will not.
    Russia - while the old designs are competitive, it may buy .... or it may not. Russia will make new missiles itself.
    It is also true that in order to maintain friendly relations, Russia makes generous orders to Ukraine ... But something friendly is not visible to the friendly gestures of Ukrainians ...
  • Old warrant officer
    Old warrant officer 18 October 2013 05: 52
    +2
    "The people are about 90% of the inhabitants of cities / villages in Russia, middle and lower classes"
    And what kind of new class is this - middle7 Can anyone explain intelligently? And which classes are lower - workers and peasants? Then it turns out that the upper class are officials and oligarchs? So before the class struggle one step remains!
  • Silkway0026
    Silkway0026 18 October 2013 07: 57
    +3
    the inhabitants of Ukraine are so interesting ...
  • Lindon
    Lindon 18 October 2013 08: 21
    +1
    Oh, they love Ukraine in Russia - this is in the article and in the posts.
    In Russia, they love to brag about how cool they are and everyone can do it themselves. Why do you need Ukraine - space, aircraft manufacturing, etc. All these are technologies of the USSR.
    In Russia, all the documentation is there - develop yourself without any claims to others.
    Is this some kind of national fun for Ukrainians to pry?
    1. Lyokhin63
      Lyokhin63 18 October 2013 23: 43
      0
      Quote: Lindon
      Is this some kind of national fun for Ukrainians to pry?

      Where do you get such conclusions? belay
  • ksv36
    ksv36 18 October 2013 20: 09
    +1
    Quote: Gato
    Americans will envy new Russian missiles

    laughing bully laughing laughing laughing laughing sorry there is no smile "Rolling under the table" +100500. Only we can afford this. laughing
  • Arkan
    Arkan 18 October 2013 23: 17
    0
    Quote: Lindon
    Oh, they love Ukraine in Russia - this is in the article and in the posts.
    In Russia, they love to brag about how cool they are and everyone can do it themselves. Why do you need Ukraine - space, aircraft manufacturing, etc. All these are technologies of the USSR.
    In Russia, all the documentation is there - develop yourself without any claims to others.
    Is this some kind of national fun for Ukrainians to pry?

    Lovely scolding, just amuse! But, we are developing, however, not as successfully as we would like. Regarding the EU and the Customs Union, wait and see.
  • Cristall
    Cristall 19 October 2013 01: 30
    0
    the closer people quarrel more often.
    And we (the people) need the space industry. Vaughn even the authorities sometimes try to emphasize that they rule the country with space and air sectors fellow although they did nothing for this.
  • Sergey S.
    Sergey S. 19 October 2013 08: 58
    0
    Quote: Cristall
    the closer people quarrel more often.
    And we (the people) need the space industry. Vaughn even the authorities sometimes try to emphasize that they rule the country with space and air sectors fellow although they did nothing for this.

    We have common problems.
    And they cannot be solved at the expense of each other.
    Now, if overeating again ...