Military Review

China copied or stole an American Apache helicopter

75
China copied or stole an American Apache helicopter

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According to foreign media.
Originator:
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  1. alone
    alone 16 October 2013 11: 19
    20
    unlikely to steal, but the photocopy machine of the Chinese works flawlessly))
    1. Guun
      Guun 16 October 2013 11: 25
      22
      I think the sooner brought down Apache were the Chinese. After all, not only in Iraq, but also in Afghanistan there are not a few of them - in some places the whole helicopter was stolen somehow and voila, the PLA army will receive hundreds of such combat vehicles, which cannot but grieve.
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 16 October 2013 11: 28
        10
        I offer Americans to buy a license from the Chinese for the production of helicopters. wassat
        1. Andrey Yuryevich
          Andrey Yuryevich 16 October 2013 13: 46
          +9
          Yes, I won’t be surprised if the Chinese and Queen Elizabeth appear copied smile
      2. sub307
        sub307 16 October 2013 18: 01
        +2
        Well, well done - well done, well "worked." They know how to use other people's developments, respectively, save money and time.
      3. timurpl
        timurpl 16 October 2013 21: 47
        0
        Quote: Guun
        I think soon the Apache brought down by the Chinese

        Option in fact 2 ... or we or the Chinese, although we have it along the way for a long time! After all, we have a "stealth" shot down by Serbian brothers, I think the "predator" planted in Iran is the same here, as in our time, a "saber" that appeared wounded above the avenue of moments.
    2. Vadivak
      Vadivak 16 October 2013 11: 37
      +7
      Quote: ...
      Currently, the Chinese army is armed with two types of attack helicopters: CAIC WZ-10

      Chinese combat helicopter Z-10 "killer" of American Apache and Cobra

      For one flight, the Z-10 helicopter can carry 8 HJ-10 shells, as well as 8 TY-90 missiles, 4 PL-5, PL-7, PL-9 missiles for air combat. To hit ground targets, the Z-10 can be armed with multi-barrel gondolas with unguided missiles mounted on a pylon. Four gondolas are fueled by 57 and 90mm rockets. The Z-10 radio-electronic countermeasure system consists of a receiver for radar and laser irradiation, an infrared jammer and an automatic reset device for dipole reflectors and infrared traps.

      (Chinese advertising)
      1. 0255
        0255 16 October 2013 11: 45
        +6
        it shows the cockpit of the Mi-28.
        Let them try to copy the Ka-50 and Ka-52. How would a Chinese coaxial helicopter fly? In addition to Kamovites, few people turned out helicopters with 2 rotors and without tail rotor.
        1. lelikas
          lelikas 16 October 2013 11: 57
          +2
          Quote: 0255
          Let them try to copy the Ka-50 and Ka-52. How would a Chinese coaxial helicopter fly?

          Not quite so - they (Kamov) initially made an ordinary turntable.
          1. 0255
            0255 16 October 2013 12: 20
            +1
            Not quite so - they (Kamov) initially made an ordinary turntable.

            so his team members helped to do? By the way, it looks like the Italian helicopter A129 "Mongoose" in the photo. I wonder what exactly the Kamovites did for this copy?
            1. carbofo
              carbofo 16 October 2013 16: 18
              +2
              Quote: 0255
              so did his Kamovites help?

              Kamovtsi did a detailed project of an attack helicopter for the Chinese, it is a fact, there was an article on this topic in VO recently.
              Outwardly, he did not change from our project.
              1. Alex 241
                Alex 241 16 October 2013 17: 28
                +3
                [img]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-voJVNNRWTH8/UK7Yj9kN-aI/AAAAAAAAVD4/IJf5jo_OtKs/s

                1600 / armed Chinese Z-10 Attack Helicopter gunship PLA Peoples Liberation Army Air Force export pakitan missile hj10 atgm rocket (3) .jpg [/ img]
                [center] [img] http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-K0Y-LvUi9sA/UK7ZWolGeSI/AAAAAAAAAVEg/FgcGR
                EYZzMs / s

                1600 / armed Chinese Z-10 Attack Helicopter gunship PLA Peoples Liberation Army Air Force export pak Kamov general designer Sergey Mikheev announced a secret contract with China. This had the effect of a bomb exploding, participants in the Heli-Expo in Las Vegas admit.

                The novelty of the Chinese aircraft industry - the Z-10 combat helicopter, first presented at Airshow China 2012 in Zhuhai, was built according to the Russian project 941, developed back in 1995. This was announced at the Heli-Expo exhibition in Las Vegas by Sergey Mikheev, general designer of Kamov. According to him, the design was carried out by order of the Chinese government in accordance with the requirements for a helicopter weighing six tons. "For obvious reasons, the information was kept secret," Flightglobal quotes Mikheev. "The performance of the Hero of Russia, Academician Mikheev, caused the effect of a bomb exploded at Heli-Expo," journalist Guy Norris writes in a blog post on the Aviation Week website.

                The statement was made on the second day of the exhibition, March 6, when the Russian Helicopters holding held the traditional Russian hour. At the "Russian hour" the company presented a line of Ka-62, Mi-171A2 and Ka-32A11BC helicopters. At some point, Mikheev took the floor, who, judging by the presentation, prepared for the speech in advance and thoroughly. The 74-year-old Kamov general designer told the "surprised crowd that the Chinese Z-10 helicopter was actually developed in great secrecy under Kamov's contract with China," Norris writes. Project 941 was not based on Soviet helicopter projects and strictly met the requirements of the Chinese customer. "They gave us an input on the desired mass, we discussed preliminary performance parameters, signed a contract and fulfilled it," Mikheev explained.

                China built flight prototypes for testing and production vehicles on its own, he added. “I wish good luck to this helicopter,” Mikheev said. He refused to answer questions about the technical characteristics of the Chinese car, redirecting them to the Chinese side. “I am responsible for what I did,” he explained.
                1. SkyMaXX
                  SkyMaXX 16 October 2013 19: 13
                  +2
                  Battlefield 4 already flies the Z-10.
            2. SkyMaXX
              SkyMaXX 17 October 2013 12: 14
              +1
              I always liked mongoose, a pretty beautiful helicopter.
        2. military
          military 16 October 2013 12: 04
          +6
          Quote: 0255
          it shows the cockpit of the Mi-28.

          argued ... am
          Quote: 0255
          How would a Chinese coaxial helicopter fly?

          ON spiral ... laughing
      2. Guun
        Guun 16 October 2013 11: 54
        +1
        WZ 10 was developed together with KB Kamov - and is supplied to the PLA at a frantic pace.
      3. Constantine
        Constantine 16 October 2013 14: 00
        +1
        Z-10 is rather a Eurocopter, which is in service with NATO in Europe.
        1. carbofo
          carbofo 16 October 2013 16: 20
          +1
          Quote: Constantine
          Z-10 is rather a Eurocopter, which is in service with NATO in Europe.

          No, This is exactly an advance project of Kamov Design Bureau, by order of the Chinese, only a project, only the Chinese were engaged in metal in it.
          1. Constantine
            Constantine 16 October 2013 17: 49
            0
            Quote: carbofo
            No, This is exactly an advance project of Kamov Design Bureau, by order of the Chinese, only a project, only the Chinese were engaged in metal in it.


            Maybe, but there are definitely similarities with the European machine. On the other hand, this is not surprising. The Chinese love to assemble one device from parts of others. Like cars, for example. Back from a Mercedes, a muzzle from a Volkswagen, a door from a Toyota, etc.
            1. carbofo
              carbofo 16 October 2013 21: 37
              +1
              Quote: Constantine
              Maybe, but there are definitely similarities with the European machine

              Well, mi28 also looks like a Eurocopter!
              The concept of a combat helicopter also implies a specific layout! It’s hard to come up with a radically new look.
              The Mi-24 had one cabin, converted to 2, only the Americans on their own make the cowl fairing all the others separate, it seems to me that it’s easier to book.
        2. kopleev
          kopleev 16 October 2013 19: 15
          -1
          If we talk about external similarity, then rather CSH2 Rooivalk.
    3. military
      military 16 October 2013 12: 00
      +1
      Quote: lonely
      the Chinese photocopy machine works flawlessly))

      3D printer ... wink
    4. lelikas
      lelikas 16 October 2013 12: 02
      +4
      Yes, in the last topic about the air defense systems it was already - yourself, all yourself - well, you can’t believe honest Chinese engineers here;)
      1. 0255
        0255 16 October 2013 12: 28
        +1
        even copied the red star ... they can’t come up with anything of their own ...
        1. Andrey Yuryevich
          Andrey Yuryevich 16 October 2013 13: 49
          +3
          so is Great K smile the helmsman Mao mowed under Joseph Vissarionitch ...
    5. Civil
      Civil 16 October 2013 12: 06
      +1
      We wouldn’t be hindered by this identity either. Would
      1. Andrey Yuryevich
        Andrey Yuryevich 16 October 2013 13: 50
        +3
        what for ? do we have that "alligator" or "shark" are not quoted ???
      2. Constantine
        Constantine 16 October 2013 14: 03
        +1
        Quote: Civil
        We wouldn’t be hindered by this identity either. Would


        What's the point? Longbow is already surviving. Block III is replacing. And then, our Mi-28s and Ka-52s are not inferior to ovs. Is it possible to feel the electronics, but if the Chinese have a sample, then our electronics have already felt wassat
    6. Alekseev
      Alekseev 16 October 2013 12: 24
      +6
      You can copy the form, the general scheme.
      But in order to copy everything, you must first reproduce all the technological processes that are used in the manufacture of this machine.
      So, copies, including Chinese, are very far from the original.
    7. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 16 October 2013 12: 34
      +5
      Has anyone on the site been surprised at this news?
      1. Ruslan_F38
        Ruslan_F38 16 October 2013 13: 30
        +3
        When the Chinese copy something or steal from us, it annoys and outrages, and when the Americans only amuse.
      2. Andrey Yuryevich
        Andrey Yuryevich 16 October 2013 13: 50
        +3
        Well, he smiled for sure ... laughing
      3. 0255
        0255 16 October 2013 14: 43
        +3
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Has anyone on the site been surprised at this news?

        no)))
    8. VAF
      VAF 16 October 2013 14: 15
      +6
      Quote: lonely
      hardly steal

      wink

      Quote: "On Chinese websites, footage of the transportation of the American Boeing AH-64 Apache attack helicopter appeared, which may indicate that the Chinese military got it somewhere or were able to copy it.

      The photographs captured the Apache with its propellers and weapon pylons removed without any camouflage. As noted by The Aviationist, China may have made an exact replica of the American helicopter, or for the first time admitted that it was able to get hold of a combat vehicle that was shot down ten years ago in Iraq. "

      Better to see once ... than to read 10 times! wink

      1. Alex 241
        Alex 241 16 October 2013 14: 30
        +3
        Hi Seryozha, I’ll supplement it.
        1. VAF
          VAF 16 October 2013 17: 10
          0
          Quote: Alex 241
          Hi Seryozha, I’ll supplement it.


          +! drinks
        2. Revolver
          Revolver 16 October 2013 19: 43
          0
          Did the white Cadillac chinas also be stolen?
  2. il grand casino
    il grand casino 16 October 2013 11: 19
    +9
    Damn ... the Chinese, that the technique is not a copy, or is it designed on the basis of something ...))) Well done)))
    1. a52333
      a52333 16 October 2013 11: 23
      +5
      Actually, it’s fed up. You don’t strain your brain, only steal someone else’s.
      1. Corsair
        Corsair 16 October 2013 11: 36
        +2
        Quote: a52333
        Actually, it’s fed up. You don’t strain your brain, only steal someone else’s.
        But China saves "a lot" of time and "a lot" of funds for R&D ...
        Time will tell WHOSE way to obtain modern technology was MORE effective and LESS costly ...
      2. SolomonSS
        SolomonSS 16 October 2013 11: 49
        10
        The Chinese are on a cheaper path, they are not developing the appearance of technology, but in order to copy the engine, get an alloy, weapons and much more, you need to work hard! On jet planes, still can not produce their engines. Some kind of engineering idea they have embodied in the finished technique, 100% copy does not happen.

        And if you look at the history, then copying technology in the USSR and the United States involved. The United States, in my opinion, still in its scientific works and finished products is mastering the best practices that were sold and exported from the USSR in the 90s. And a lot of Russian specialists were taken out.

        I think the Chinese are great, they don’t come up with a bicycle, but immediately go to the next step, saving money and time.
        1. Corsair
          Corsair 16 October 2013 12: 29
          0
          Quote: SolomonSS
          I think the Chinese are great, they don’t come up with a bicycle, but immediately go to the next step, saving money and time.

          Moreover, you want to "ride a bike" RIGHT NOW ...
        2. i_vam_ne_hvoratj
          i_vam_ne_hvoratj 16 October 2013 14: 47
          +1
          I agree in principle. Not a single thought can be kept secret. Sooner or later, it will come to the head of another thinking creature. The PRC, by investing serious amounts in research and development, seeks to increase the effectiveness of each rendered yuan. And, as you rightly noted, the PRC is following the path beaten by the USA and the USSR in the late 40s and early 50s. From the fact that scientists studied the development of each other and Germany, the authority of science in these countries was not affected. Well done Chinese, in this case, for two reasons. Firstly, it is impossible to steal there without consequences. And secondly, they decided in all seriousness to make their country a world-class power, not regional. And, in essence, they manage to launch R&D military developments in civilian industries.
  3. svp67
    svp67 16 October 2013 11: 20
    +3
    China copied or stole an American Apache helicopter
    Now another Chinese "expert" will appear who will explain that the similarity is purely accidental, but in general there are a lot of "new Chinese" technologies .... And I also wonder why they didn't "lick" our Mi28, which isn't that bad?
    1. Guun
      Guun 16 October 2013 11: 24
      +2
      If documents get there, and even better if they are sold to them (which I have no doubt), then in a couple of years MiA will also be under the Chinese name in the PLA.
    2. Basileus
      Basileus 16 October 2013 11: 26
      +3
      Kamovtsy helped them anyway, why should Milev machines still be copied?
    3. 0255
      0255 16 October 2013 11: 43
      +1
      And I also wonder why they didn't "lick" our Mi28, which is not so bad?

      so that the Russians would not be offended that they only copy Russian MiGs and Sushki! wassat Therefore, they copied the F-35 (j-31) and the Apache
  4. Lindon
    Lindon 16 October 2013 11: 27
    18
    Well done Chinese - do not be afraid to steal and copy. They are saving the money of their people while others are trimming trillions.
    We are waiting for supplies of Apache clones "for a penny" from the clone makers.
  5. morpogr
    morpogr 16 October 2013 11: 38
    +3
    The country’s perfect copimaster is nothing more than such an approach.
  6. Tyvinec
    Tyvinec 16 October 2013 12: 08
    +1
    I'm sitting here and thinking why? After all, they have a WZ-10, which I consider the most beautiful helicopter, after the KA-60. In my opinion, it is better to develop your own line of helicopters than copy someone else's with its shortcomings. More than anything, a lot of helicopters were shot down, the fact of this should scare them to copy it. This is me, past the crocodile.
    1. nazgul-ishe
      nazgul-ishe 16 October 2013 12: 36
      +2
      By copying and removing flaws, you get another technique.
      The Chinese can do it.
  7. DuraLexSedLex.
    DuraLexSedLex. 16 October 2013 12: 16
    0
    What they copied or stole there is most likely the old version of AH-64, with the old avionics or Chinese counterparts ... he is clearly far from the modern AH-64 Long Bow, because the technologies used in the latest version of Apach were the peak of technology at the time of its exit and are constantly being upgraded.
    You should not compare WZ-10 and AH-64, this is not a much different class of helicopters, although they have common goals. Apach is, first of all, a heavy helicopter carrying a horseradish cloud of nomenclatures of missiles of different classes, designed to destroy heavy equipment. WZ-10 the car is lighter, and not so heavily armed (in terms of quantity and quality of outboard weapons) and armored as Apach.
  8. PROXOR
    PROXOR 16 October 2013 12: 27
    0
    Yes, let the mattresses taste hard copy n * o * p * n * o. Let's see what the Mattresses will do now.
  9. nazgul-ishe
    nazgul-ishe 16 October 2013 12: 34
    +1
    It’s not important that they were stolen or copied, the main thing is that they launched the product into circulation and what will come of it, we will see.
  10. Corrint_25
    Corrint_25 16 October 2013 12: 41
    +1
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    Has anyone on the site been surprised at this news?

    request
  11. Fregate
    Fregate 16 October 2013 12: 42
    +4
    The Chinese probably have a "copying" lesson at school (instead of a lesson on labor). And in all educational institutions they produce the following type: copier-fitter, copy-turner, etc. laughing
    1. Tan4ik
      Tan4ik 16 October 2013 13: 11
      +2
      Tochnyak) Scientist-copyist) And they give out copy paper for free) To copy the drawings)
  12. botsman80
    botsman80 16 October 2013 13: 07
    +2
    Why spend billions on development? Copy and upgrade along the way. Why not? We got what we wanted and saved money ... in a word - GOOD FELLOWS!
  13. Polovec
    Polovec 16 October 2013 13: 18
    +6
    On our planet, probably, only China is the real superpower!
    Copyright? Do not tell our billions!
  14. Eternal demobilization
    Eternal demobilization 16 October 2013 13: 23
    +4
    The whole world is engaged in politics, there is war, there is war. And the Chinese are quietly copying all the goods and weapons. Yes, in principle, they all copy and stamp children as a copier))) The army is probably preparing. I recalled a joke: There is a world war. In the office of the Chinese commander, there is a large world map that is carefully painted yellow every day. Once the general secretary comes in, looks at the map - everything is yellow, and in the center is a small red dot.
    - What is it?
    - And this is the third month in Moscow that Azer is holding Cherkizovsky market!
  15. Cherdak
    Cherdak 16 October 2013 13: 23
    0
    It seems to me that this is a simple informational sketch. It remains only to find out who benefits from this. The Chinese, if they wanted to keep the secret, would simply have screwed in a closed hangar and transported marked parts under the guise of agricultural machinery (see peacefully plowing Soviet tractor). But here it is too obvious and provocative. Either the Americans will now demand money to upgrade their turntables, or they will bypass the Congress ban and start stupidly supplying these Chinese helicopters with export equipment.
  16. Altona
    Altona 16 October 2013 13: 33
    +2
    China copied or stole an American Apache helicopter
    --------------------------
    Tell me straight - "Communizdil" ...
    1. fzr1000
      fzr1000 16 October 2013 13: 48
      +7
      No, they apapitalized Apache, but all of Russia communized.
    2. 0255
      0255 16 October 2013 14: 49
      0
      Quote: Altona
      China copied or stole an American Apache helicopter
      --------------------------
      Tell me straight - "Communizdil" ...

      and you ask the Chinese - they will tell you that this is their development.
  17. VNP1958PVN
    VNP1958PVN 16 October 2013 14: 31
    0
    Everywhere quiet Chinese expansion is suggestive ...
  18. Silkway0026
    Silkway0026 16 October 2013 14: 34
    +2
    all of the above clearly indicates that we should not be hysterical about "rapidly developing China" (in technical terms).

    copying them:
    1. Will never give the quality of the original
    2. with great difficulty gives an idea of ​​how do they do it
    3. gives a quick result, but does not give skills, technologies

    "A good lawn should grow 200 years old." English proverb.
    1. Polovec
      Polovec 16 October 2013 16: 04
      +2
      I absolutely disagree with you. Today, thievish China is already making decent and technologically sophisticated products.
      1. Silkway0026
        Silkway0026 17 October 2013 11: 49
        +2
        here "quite decent" let them do it. We all do the BEST anyway.
  19. Cherdak
    Cherdak 16 October 2013 15: 16
    +3
    Quote: Silkway0026
    copying them will never give the quality of the original


    That's right.
    1. Silkway0026
      Silkway0026 17 October 2013 11: 51
      +2
      this is the best answer to such defeatist reasoning:
      I absolutely disagree with you. Today, thievish China is already making decent and technologically sophisticated products.
  20. Jurkovs
    Jurkovs 16 October 2013 16: 24
    0
    Most likely bought from a corrupt American ensign, warehouse manager.
  21. Ivan Tarasov
    Ivan Tarasov 16 October 2013 17: 22
    +1
    Excuse me, but in the photo there is a helicopter with weapons, with blades, and you can even say that he carries himself ....
    Either give a genuine photo, or do not write nonsense.
    Minus note.
    1. Do not care
      Do not care 17 October 2013 07: 38
      0
      Moreover, the Chinese have American equipment in the cockpit
  22. The comment was deleted.
  23. Vittt
    Vittt 16 October 2013 17: 47
    +1
    Quote: lonely
    unlikely to steal, but the photocopy machine of the Chinese works flawlessly))

    You can give the Chinese a standing ovation; it would be better if the GAZ plant did the same with the Ford Transit or VW Caravelle. I hate it !!!!! "Gazelle" - and because of this piece of g !!!! almost froze in winter.
  24. voliador
    voliador 16 October 2013 18: 31
    0
    If you just copied, then their aircraft are not good at copying. However, as, for example, RPG.
    1. APASUS
      APASUS 16 October 2013 19: 52
      0
      Quote: voliador
      If you just copied, then their aircraft are not good at copying. However, as, for example, RPG.

      What do you dislike about the Chinese copy of RPG? In capable hands, this is a formidable weapon !!
      Another thing if ..............
      1. Polovec
        Polovec 16 October 2013 22: 59
        +1
        Smiled!

        I especially liked it when the guys urgently abandoned the war and began to hang out together over the little brother. It was evident that one could not strain! Miracle, not war!
  25. e3tozy
    e3tozy 16 October 2013 19: 50
    0
    It’s interesting, but were the engines for this turntable somewhere new or from the old groundwork?
  26. Tourist Breakfast
    Tourist Breakfast 16 October 2013 19: 53
    +2
    Like infa slipped through that the photo was taken in Taiwan. The Taiwanese have Apaches in service. Accordingly, the license plate of the car is Taiwanese army.
  27. sergey158-29
    sergey158-29 16 October 2013 20: 31
    0
    Well done! hi

    Silently "snoop" into the 1st economy of the WORLD ... good

    DO NOT notice how they become the 1st military power ... crying
    1. Freelancer7
      Freelancer7 17 October 2013 03: 06
      0
      The main thing is not to become a new "exclusive nation", otherwise the leaders have such a professional illness.
  28. waisson
    waisson 16 October 2013 21: 06
    +1
    that's not news
  29. Freelancer7
    Freelancer7 17 October 2013 03: 04
    0
    one thing pleases - at least not only our equipment is copied ...
  30. SkyMaXX
    SkyMaXX 17 October 2013 12: 23
    0
    Well, if Apache was stolen, in principle, there is little something special in it. The most interesting thing about it is the optoelectronic observation and sighting station and probably the Longbow radar, which China can copy for its Z-10. Although Apache was developed for a long time, the equipment on it, although it is being updated, is no longer a secret and has analogues, for example, the Ka-52 is now not inferior to Apache in avionics, the difference in the software of the equipment.