Military Review

MiG-25 over Israel

89
MIG-25 - the last of the "Migov" dynasty, which was tested in the fighting in the Middle East. It was used on the "Egyptian front" during the Arab-Israeli war 1969 of the year as an intelligence officer, as well as on the "Syrian" one - with the appropriate equipment and weapons as an interceptor.




MIG-25 as a scout recalls a participant in the events - test pilot V. Gordienko.

MIG-25, he says, at that time was so superior to the existing fighters in the world that only the theoretical possibility of intercepting it remained. We were convinced of this by launching specific combat missions of aerial reconnaissance.

The plane successfully coped with all the tasks. The on-board electronic warfare equipment, which more than once saved our lives in seemingly desperate situations, also withstood the test. The weapons system of MIGs ensured effective work on both air and ground targets. And, if necessary, could allow the pilot to strike a bomb on objects or areas from a height of 20 thousand meters at a speed of 2.300 km / h. However, this and some other variants of combat use of the aircraft were not required by the situation.

According to Gordienko, Israeli pilots on the Phantoms tried to intercept them, usually from ambushes or from the “airborne alert” position. But in vain. Once, in the area of ​​the Suez Canal, dozens of fighter jets started hunting for our plane at once. A pilot caught up in the raid had to squeeze out of the MIG everything he could do to escape the chase. And it succeeded. By the way, in Egypt, our military pilots set several absolute altitude records. Unfortunately, there was no one to register them ... After the sudden death of Nasser, the new leadership of the country limited reconnaissance flights. And soon an ultimatum followed within 24 hours to withdraw the MiGs from Egypt. When everything was ready for the flight, the Egyptian left for the runway Tanks. They managed to settle the conflict through diplomatic means, and a day later the arriving Antei took away the equipment and people. So ended the first battle page in stories MIG-25.

To the story of a test pilot, it is advisable to make two additions. During the invasion of Israeli airspace MIG-25, gaining altitude more than 18.000 m over its territory, several times fired at the Hawk anti-aircraft missiles. However, all the gaps were recorded below the path of the flight of the scout. Nor could the paths of the MIG-25 high-altitude and absolutely fighter-bomber "Phantom" cross the paths.

A SECOND page in the MIG-25 combat biography opened eleven years on the eve of the Lebanese War 1982. In February, the X-NUMX, when new F-1981 fighter jets entered the Israeli army, materialized a number of practical options for luring Syrian MIG-15 into a tactical trap.

The demonstrative actions - provocations to the challenge - moved to the range of near-stratospheric heights (10.000-12.000 m). There are frequent cases of deliberate violation of Syria’s air borders from the sea.

The following is an extract from the log of hostilities:

"... 13 February 1981 of the year over Lebanon appeared a pair of Israeli intelligence officers RF-4C, which began to move along the lift line to intercept in a northerly direction with a speed of 1.000 km / h at an altitude of 12.000 m. Towards violators air came out a single MIG-25.

At 13.25, at the 8.000 echelon, MIG-25 began to accelerate, then took one for the purpose of altitude at a distance of 110 km. In response, the “target” turned back and left behind a dense cloud of dipole reflectors, which formed a spot of light on the guidance radar screen. MIG-25 continued the pursuit of the scouts departing to the south. A minute later, another “target” emerged from the “cloud” of interference (the altimeter gave the first notch on 3.000 m). It was the Israeli F-15, who had previously been in wait for a high mountain range.

In 13.27, the distance between F-15 and MIG-25 has been reduced to 50 km. The Syrian pilot (fully mastered MIG-25) could not detect the enemy approaching from below because of the restriction of the on-board radar in the lower hemisphere survey. The team, filed from the ground to the lapel, did not reach the pilot, because at that moment there was a strong noise interference on the radio.

In 13.28, on the opposite approach in the F-15 set from the 25 km distance, the missile was launched and shot down by the MIG-25. A large hole was found in the left plane of the plane in Lebanon and fragments of a rocket were found, on one of which it was possible to distinguish the inscription AIM-7F. ”

That is how the first rocket attack in the history of the air war took place. According to records, it was provided by reconnaissance aircraft, who undertook a planned demonstrative maneuver and dropped passive interference, as well as a specialized EW aircraft that was on duty over the sea with the HKVA and created noise interference that violated the control of MIG-25.

Thus, the sphere of battle was invaded by new elements that directly influenced its outcome. The content of the battle itself has also changed, which required a timely response. 29 July 1981, when the nine-year pause between the wars in the Middle East was still going on, the Israelis, in another provocation with violation of the border, changed the alignment of forces and order of actions. The demonstrative maneuvers were performed by a single F-15. The other two (strike group) located in ambush outside the zone of visibility of the Syrian ground radar.

The chief of staff of the Syrian Air Force (who later defended his doctoral dissertation) developed a response plan of action, which was implemented as follows.

The Upper F-15 began to call for a pair of MIG-21, and two MIG-25 aircraft went into an ambush - a darkened area in the review of the Israeli VKP "Hokai". F-15 "pecked" on a false call. On an oncoming course with him the point of guidance led one MIG-25 out of the pair. The second began a maneuver to strike at the flank.

However, F-15, without changing course, suddenly switched to decline, dragging MIG-25 with it. The Syrian pilot reported on target detection on 80 km, capture on 40 km and the subsequent disruption of the capture on a descent during the battle. Tags opponents on the radar screen guidance merged, and then disappeared. The pilot MIG-25 ejected, as he reported, “after the strike” and landed safely.

The second MIG-25 no longer hit the flank. The Israeli strike airplanes did not have time to get to the battlefield either. In an unforeseen situation in advance, quickly sorted out on the Syrian PCU. Considering the position more profitable, they decided to transfer MIG-25 to rapprochement. The pilot found the target on 40 km, captured on 25 km, launching the first rocket - on 18 km, second rocket - on 11 km (onboard controls in decoding confirmed the first rocket hit). Israeli pilot ejected over the sea. The patrol boats picked up a life jacket and a bag with signaling equipment stored in the ejection seat.

HOWEVER, the first effective battle of MIG-25 did not continue: the Syrian command took aircraft of this type beyond the scope of hostilities. The reason lay on the surface: in the stratosphere, where the characteristics of MIG-25 as an interceptor were revealed, no one flew (there were no “targets”). Undoubtedly, in those conditions to which the combat capabilities of the aircraft were driven, he had no equal. However, these “conditions” did not find a place in a limited armed conflict in the Middle East.

Ten years later, in 1991, the carriers of new military-technical ideas were confronted with the following fact: in the “high technology” war in the Persian Gulf, all modern combat “manned” aviation above 10.000 meters did not fly at all. The reconnaissance in the interests of the strike forces (including radio engineering with the establishment of the coordinates of the included air defense systems) was carried out by spacecraft. From duty zones in the air, shifted deep into their territory, they were helped by specialized aircraft that did not have weapons and personal protective equipment. Stratospheric interception - an expensive idea implemented in metal has not found its application in combat conditions.

* * *

The combat path of the MIGs of three generations - from the fifteenth to the twenty-fifth - is similar to the flight of a fighter with ups and downs. Success was present where the capabilities of the aircraft and weapons met the conditions of the tasks to be solved.
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  1. Aaron Zawi
    Aaron Zawi 18 October 2013 08: 58
    -22 qualifying.
    In 1982, the IDF Air Force did not lose aircraft in aerial combat. The Phantom and Kfir were shot down by air defense fire.
    1. newnutella
      newnutella 18 October 2013 09: 31
      40
      for the 100500 time we hear that no one has ever brought down Jews.
      1. Aaron Zawi
        Aaron Zawi 18 October 2013 09: 46
        +3
        Quote: newnutella
        for the 100500 time we hear that no one has ever brought down Jews.

        During the 1973 war of the year, the AOI Air Force lost air-defense fire and in 102 air battles. 8 were also decommissioned after landing, since their destruction was too great to recover. 64 pilot and navigator died. Thus, the losses of the Air Force IDF during the 1973 War of the year amounted to 30%. When there are losses, none of this makes secrets. Why be shy? Courage of pilots in the performance of duty?
        1. svp67
          svp67 18 October 2013 14: 58
          +7
          Quote: Aron Zaavi
          Why be shy?


          Patrol boats picked up a life jacket and a bag of signaling equipment stored in the ejection seat.
          That is, all this "dangled" in the sea from 1973 to 1981, until it was found ... Strange
      2. air wolf
        air wolf 18 October 2013 13: 39
        +5
        they are chosen by God)))
      3. Pimply
        Pimply 18 October 2013 14: 24
        +1
        We will be more specific
        From the middle of the 1974 to the beginning of the 2006, the following were lost over Lebanon:

        5 combat aircraft (Skyhawk, two Phantoms and two Kfir);
        3 combat helicopters ("Cobra");
        3 transport helicopters (Anafa);
        11 crew members and 2 fighter 669 died;
        3 pilot captured and returned to Israel, 1 - did not return.

        Israel suffered serious losses in 1973 and earlier.
      4. velikoros-xnumx
        velikoros-xnumx 18 October 2013 14: 25
        +6
        Quote: newnutella
        no one ever brought down Jews.

        Have you fallen? laughing
      5. Federal
        Federal 18 October 2013 15: 57
        -32 qualifying.
        “I think the Russians fly quite well. I was even surprised by what they did with their machines. But they obviously lacked the skills of effective combat maneuvering to hit the enemy. They are good pilots, but weak tactics. They have no combat experience. pattern and therefore easily predictable. " Lieutenant Colonel Avihu Ben-Nun: battle 30.06.70/XNUMX/XNUMX
        The result of 4 Russian pilot of the corpse, 5 littered with shit, Jews without loss, are there any comments? I do not have......
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 18 October 2013 16: 03
          +6
          Quote: Federal
          The result of 4 Russian pilot of the corpse, 5 littered with shit, Jews without loss, are there any comments? I do not have......

          There were three dead. Mig-21 at that time was one of the best aircraft. The advantage of the Israelis was more experience, fewer bans, initiative, the use of electronic warfare
          1. Federal
            Federal 18 October 2013 16: 46
            -23 qualifying.
            There were three dead. MiG-21 at that time was one of the best aircraft. The advantage of the Israelis was in more experience, fewer prohibitions, in initiative, in the use of electronic warfare [/ quote]

            I will not argue what is not particularly strong, the shutter speed was for some hot heads, about the super duper Migi. After Vietnam something went wrong with Russian cars, or they just sell suckers or a strong backlog in electronics, I think a combination of factors + the stupidity of the flight manager and planners specifically in the Egyptian situation.
            1. Boricello
              Boricello 19 October 2013 09: 40
              +4
              [quote = Federal] There were three dead. MiG-21 at that time was one of the best aircraft. The advantage of the Israelis was in more experience, fewer prohibitions, in initiative, in the use of electronic warfare [/ quote]

              I will not argue what is not particularly strong, the shutter speed was for some hot heads, about the super duper Migi. After Vietnam something went wrong with Russian cars, or they just sell suckers or a strong backlog in electronics, I think a combination of factors + the stupidity of the flight manager and planners specifically in the Egyptian situation. [/ Quote]
              And why is it so much anger in Russian? Among the military specialists and Ukrainians and Belarusians and other nations were. Well, you are now independent and always hated her. You look at yourself. If you look at history, you are probably the most prosperous nation in the post space. Then you go to Lithuania, the top Swedes, then Poland ... Learn to be tolerant and look at yourself from the outside.
              1. Federal
                Federal 22 October 2013 12: 20
                -4
                dear and what does it have to do with it ... some kind of nation I can’t pronounce ... Did I insult anyone? He said a well-known fact, said that Migi no matter who they pilot in that configuration shit. Have questions, give facts when where Migi failed? I’ll take off the whole question, if the car or the training of pilots is shit, why should this be hidden? what does Ukraine have to do with it, I consider myself Russian, here are the problems with you that stupid people don’t learn from mistakes, but they repeat them again
        2. 31231
          31231 18 October 2013 18: 41
          +7
          The result of 4 Russian pilots of a corpse, 5 littered with shit, Jews without loss, are there comments? I do not have...

          Soviet pilots were then. Soviet.
          These are now Russian, Ukrainian and others.
        3. svp67
          svp67 18 October 2013 18: 49
          +4
          Quote: Federal
          The result of 4 Russian pilot of the corpse, 5 littered with shit, Jews without loss, are there any comments? I do not have....

          There is
          As a result of the air battle killed:
          Zhuravlev Vladimir Aleksandrovich - captain, senior pilot. Awarded (posthumously) with the Order of the Red Banner and the Egyptian Order of the "Star of Military Valor."
          Yurchenko Nikolay Petrovich - captain, flight commander. Awarded (posthumously) with the Order of the Red Banner and the Egyptian Order of the "Star of Military Valor."
          Yakovlev Evgeny Gerasimovich - captain, flight commander. Awarded (posthumously) with the Order of the Red Banner and the Egyptian Order of the "Star of Military Valor."


          Therefore, two RUSSIAN pilots and one UKRAINIAN ...

          The first was shot down by Captain Yurchenko - his MiG exploded in the air from a Sidewinder rocket. A few minutes later, Captains Yakovlev and Syrkin had to eject - alas, when they landed, Captain Yakovlev fell into a crevice and crashed to death (there is a version that the canopy of his parachute was burned by a jet fighter flying by).
          It is still not known exactly how Captain Zhuravlev died - according to eyewitness recollections, he fought alone against four enemy aircraft, until he was hit by a crazy Mirage gun cannon. There is an opinion that two Israeli pilots, Ift Spector and Abraham Salmon, who barely reached the territory of Israel in a damaged car, almost fell victim to it.
          According to rumors, the Israelis managed to shoot down Captain Kamenev’s plane, but there is no evidence of this. In addition, Captain Kamenev himself subsequently continued to serve in the ranks of the USSR Air Force. Rumors, rumors ... sometimes they say that one of the MiGs made an emergency landing on one of the Egyptian airfields. No one knows what really happened.

          At the same time, there are witness testimonies, according to which, after the battle, the Israeli search and rescue helicopters were circling over the battlefield - did the “unbreakable” Hel Haavir suffer any losses? It is not excluded. The operation involved a lot of "Mirage" from 101, 117 and 119 squadrons, as well as multipurpose fighter "Phantom" from the 69 squadron of the Israeli Air Force. There is a high probability that the loss of one (or several) machines was carefully hidden, and the results of the battle were falsified.

          Without resorting to questionable conspiracy, the following reliable facts can be established:
          As a result of the 30.07.1970 battle, the 4 MiG-21 was shot down, and three Soviet pilots were killed.
          The credible loss of the Israeli Air Force was shot down by Asher Snir’s Mirage, which landed at Refadim airbase.


          The game of hide and seek continued until 25 on June 1970 of the year - on that day, a pair of Soviet MiGs (pilots Krapivin and Salnik) secretly crossed the link of Skyhawk attack aircraft - one of the Mi-launched homing missiles R-3 hit the airplane engine with the Star of David fusel . However, the tenacious Skyhawk managed to stabilize the flight and, smoking with a torn nozzle, disappeared into the sky beyond the Suez Canal.

          http://topwar.ru/28353-sovetskie-letchiki-protiv-vvs-izrailya-pobeda-s-suhim-sch
          etom.html
        4. ruslan207
          ruslan207 18 October 2013 19: 07
          +7
          Federal -You, comrade federal, choose the expression: these were the most experienced Israeli pilots and there were no Soviet pilots and mostly volunteers because there was nothing to catch there, but the air defense division avenged Major Kutintsev’s shot down 5 phantoms outwitted the pilots they took for launches rockets smoke bombs Arabs did not think of such a trick
        5. tomket
          tomket 18 October 2013 22: 07
          +3
          joke Ukrainian woman escorts the lad to the war: Son and where do you send letters ??? -Yes, write mommy immediately captive!
        6. Lyutoyar R.
          Lyutoyar R. April 6 2018 19: 23
          0
          MiGs were then ambushed and fought against a many times superior enemy.
    2. Avenger711
      Avenger711 18 October 2013 09: 42
      +9
      That's just the Israelis are masters of concealing losses.
      1. Aaron Zawi
        Aaron Zawi 18 October 2013 09: 55
        -12 qualifying.
        Quote: Avenger711
        That's just the Israelis are masters of concealing losses.

        In Israel, it is impossible to hide the losses.
        1. avt
          avt 18 October 2013 10: 18
          16
          Quote: Aron Zaavi
          In Israel, it is impossible to hide the losses.

          Well, it's like Vysotsky's - ,, in the heat, I shouted to them, your mother ... '' laughing Always and everywhere, the military hide their losses and exaggerate the losses of the enemy. Both for practical and PR reasons. Exploring Mig-25 flights is an interesting part of the war in the air. I read the pilot’s memoirs, as I wrote about this, we are tired of their Jews meet in the air, try to intercept. They announced that there would be no flights on one day, only taxiing along the runway. And they themselves took off and took off, so according to the memories that remained on the ground - the floor of the Egyptian airfield immediately ran somewhere in search of a phone, urgently called somewhere.
          1. Professor
            Professor 18 October 2013 12: 15
            -13 qualifying.
            Quote: avt
            Always and everywhere, the military hide their losses and exaggerate the losses of the enemy.

            Do not judge others by yourself. In Israel, it is even theoretically impossible to conceal the loss of a single soldier. There will always be some Anat Kam and will hand over everything.
            1. washi
              washi 18 October 2013 14: 54
              +2
              Quote: Professor
              Quote: avt
              Always and everywhere, the military hide their losses and exaggerate the losses of the enemy.

              Do not judge others by yourself. In Israel, it is even theoretically impossible to conceal the loss of a single soldier. There will always be some Anat Kam and will hand over everything.

              Of course he will. Question to whom? And who benefits from concealing weapons losses? And from whom does Israel receive money for armaments?
              1. atalef
                atalef 18 October 2013 15: 11
                -4
                Quote: Professor
                In Israel, it is even theoretically impossible to hide the loss of a single soldier. There will always be some Anat Kam and will hand over everything.

                Hey . Oleg . well, they don’t understand that in Israel they don’t hide the losses, neither killed nor wounded nor prisoners. Firstly no. meaning, the country is small, all the same someone will tell me and then the loss of image and trust will cost much more. For all the time (that I’ve never hidden something here. One talks about losses right away. The only thing is that they don’t give names until they inform the next of kin (and this usually takes no more than a day. If the relatives are abroad. This watch is usually a watch in Israel) only then tell the names on the radio and TV so that everyone who knows the dead can take part in the funeral (the time and date of which is also reported). In Israel it is considered not ethical and not correct. If the next of kin finds out the death of a son (daughter) - through the media, so first they are notified by the special representative of the Army and only after that the name becomes the property of the media.
                1. Aaron Zawi
                  Aaron Zawi 18 October 2013 15: 40
                  -2
                  There are isolated cases when the title, division and the first letter of the surname are reported. This is if an officer of the special forces, who had previously been involved in undercover work, perishes. Information on the place of the funeral in those cases is not disclosed and the funeral is closed.
                2. Maximus-xnumx
                  Maximus-xnumx 22 October 2013 07: 51
                  0
                  Well, if this is true, then it is respected. In the Russian army, by the way, before the revolution, a magazine was published ((RUSSIAN DISABLED)), and it indicated the names, names and military ranks of the dead. The latest issue dates from August 1914. Well, maybe I got it wrong.
              2. Professor
                Professor 18 October 2013 15: 15
                -7
                Quote: Vasya
                Question to whom?

                as usual, to reporters.

                Quote: svp67
                Quote: Professor
                In Israel, it is even theoretically impossible to conceal the loss of a single soldier.

                AND WHO SAYS THAT IN THIS INCIDENT Israel LOST her PILOR? It could well have been picked up ... LIVE, but WITHOUT A PLANE ...

                Board number in the studio.

                Quote: Vasya
                And there is an example of amers.

                The article is not about amers.
                1. SkiF_RnD
                  SkiF_RnD 20 October 2013 13: 11
                  +2
                  Yes, it is difficult to hide the loss of a side, but in some cases, the desire to have the image of "invincible" warriors may be stronger than fear for their reputation. In the media about Israel, you can find different information ... Recall at least the story of the Merkavas and T-72, which, perhaps, in reality have never met. But both sides shouted about the battle and the destroyed enemy tanks. With all due respect to the IDF, I am sure that in Israel, as in any other country, losses are disclosed only if there is irrefutable evidence. Arguments like “we do not hide losses because we don’t hide them” can only cause misunderstanding, which is not surprising.
                  1. Professor
                    Professor 20 October 2013 13: 18
                    0
                    Quote: SkiF_RnD
                    Arguments like “we do not hide losses because we don’t hide them” can only cause misunderstanding, which is not surprising.

                    They will begin to hide losses and there will be no competition in combat units. This is elementary. You can blow as much as you like about raising the image of the army, but one puncture with lies and the whole image of a cat down the drain. It's called reputation.
                    1. Maximus-xnumx
                      Maximus-xnumx 22 October 2013 07: 55
                      +1
                      Competition in combat units ??? Are you seriously ?! Please provide facts. I am intrigued.
                      1. Professor
                        Professor 22 October 2013 09: 20
                        +1
                        Quote: Maximus-22
                        Competition in combat units ??? Are you seriously ?! Please provide facts. I am intrigued.

                        How do IDF soldiers become
            2. svp67
              svp67 18 October 2013 15: 00
              +5
              Quote: Professor
              In Israel, it is even theoretically impossible to conceal the loss of a single soldier.

              AND WHO SAYS THAT IN THIS INCIDENT Israel LOST her PILOR? It could well have been picked up ... LIVE, but WITHOUT A PLANE ...
              1. Pimply
                Pimply 18 October 2013 15: 35
                +3
                Quote: svp67
                AND WHO SAYS THAT IN THIS INCIDENT Israel LOST her PILOR? He could very well have been picked up ... LIVE, but WITHOUT A PLANE ..

                There are quite reputable military magazines. Which have their own sources, and live by the fact that they disclose all classified information. Janes, for example. It is strange that for so many years, the missing board was never found by anyone. 8) Well, except that in the books of military advisers and those who relied on their data - such as Ilyin.
                It is strange that there are no data of machine guns. Well, and other cute little things.
              2. Alex 241
                Alex 241 18 October 2013 19: 15
                +7
                Hi Serezha, it's strange that the pilot Alexander Bezhevets forgot about this episode, having climbed the MiG-25 from the airfield near Cairo, a few minutes later he was already in the sky over Tel Aviv. At an altitude of 22 km. Of course, several interceptor aircraft rose to meet him. Phantoms and Hawks fired from different directions, but their missiles and shells did not reach our car. The beige turned on the camera and filmed all this fiery extravaganza on film, and at the same time the city over which he was flying. His fighter did not carry weapons, it was a purely demonstration flight. But instead of one lap, as he was instructed, the pilot made six. And then he returned to his base.

                During this flight, Alexander Bezhevets received the title of Hero of the Soviet Union, and Israel realized that a strike on the Aswan Dam would not go unpunished for him.

                Georgy Markovich Kornienko, a well-known Soviet diplomat, former USSR First Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs, who worked in Washington in autumn 1973 as an adviser and envoy of our embassy, ​​told me that after that MiG-25 flight over Tel Aviv he was invited to the White House, to to the president of the United States. And at the request of the American side, he organized telephone conversations between US President Richard Nixon and Secretary General of the CPSU Central Committee Leonid Brezhnev. Kornienko was asked to be a translator.

                “Listen, Leonid,” said Nixon to Brezhnev, supposedly, “let's take a big stick and set our friends in Cairo and Tel Aviv properly.” It's time to finish the weld between them.

                Brezhnev answered:

                - Let's do it better. You will free the right side of your table, I - yours. And together we hit the lid with our fist.

                Nixon agreed with him. The next day, the Doomsday War between Israel and Egypt ended. And the world was spared the nuclear apocalypse.
                1. Alex 241
                  Alex 241 18 October 2013 19: 20
                  +3
                  Special sections of the chronicle are pages related to the military operations of Soviet pilots in the skies of Spain and China, Hassan and Khalkhin-Gol, Finland, Western Ukraine and Belarus. And if a lot has already been written about the glorious victories and the bitter lessons of defeats in these wars and conflicts, then we are only just beginning to learn about the "hot spots" of the post-war era of jet domestic aviation. The curtains of archives over the participation of Soviet military aircraft in the events in China and Korea, Laos and Vietnam, in Africa and the Middle East were opened. Many “military secrets” are revealed by veterans and combatants in these countries. Today it’s the turn to talk about Egypt, where in 1971-1972. our reconnaissance pilots performed unique tasks, which undoubtedly constituted one of the golden pages of the 90-year history of the Russian Air Force. About how it was 30 years ago, say members of the Council of Veterans of the War in Egypt.http: //old.redstar.ru/2002/08/17_08/4_01.html
                2. old man54
                  old man54 21 October 2013 03: 26
                  0
                  Quote: Alex 241
                  During this flight, Alexander Bezhevets received the title of Hero of the Soviet Union, and Israel realized that a strike on the Aswan Dam would not go unpunished for him.

                  Alexander, my respect! drinks
                  "_ !, and you want 20 of them for a post! good
            3. smersh70
              smersh70 18 October 2013 16: 15
              +2
              Quote: Professor
              Do not judge others by yourself

              ..the professor will turn the topic from planes to Merkava and show everyone Kuzkin’s mother wassat
        2. Russ69
          Russ69 18 October 2013 12: 56
          +7
          Quote: Aron Zaavi
          In Israel, it is impossible to hide the losses.

          I guess I agree that it’s hard to hide the losses, the country is small. But the difference in losses is due to propaganda. During hostilities, censorship exists everywhere and losses may not be voiced immediately. So we get links to the same event, different in content. In Afghanistan, a few years ago, the Americans officially conducted censorship on reports from there.
          The Americans, most often blame their losses on the Air Force for technical reasons, Israel for air defense.
          Now, sometimes one message contradicts another, and even more so at that time.
          1. Professor
            Professor 18 October 2013 13: 39
            +2
            Quote: Russ69
            But the difference in losses is due to propaganda. During hostilities, censorship exists everywhere and losses may not be voiced immediately.

            It's true. Military censorship is awake. As for the losses, she is busy with the fact that the relatives of the deceased or wounded would learn from the incident not from the press, but personally from the military commissar. And only after this information is transferred to the press.
            1. washi
              washi 18 October 2013 14: 56
              +3
              Quote: Professor
              Quote: Russ69
              But the difference in losses is due to propaganda. During hostilities, censorship exists everywhere and losses may not be voiced immediately.

              It's true. Military censorship is awake. As for the losses, she is busy with the fact that the relatives of the deceased or wounded would learn from the incident not from the press, but personally from the military commissar. And only after this information is transferred to the press.

              And there is an example of amers. They have almost no combat losses. Charged to illness and accident
              1. Pimply
                Pimply 18 October 2013 15: 37
                -1
                Can you specifically argue?
                I have, for example, the layout of their losses before my eyes. To the accuracy of a person. Who, how, when - and why you do not agree with your thoughts. You can attach an argument: a document of some kind.
            2. Maximus-xnumx
              Maximus-xnumx 22 October 2013 07: 58
              0
              Well, at least kill anyway I do not believe !!!
          2. Pimply
            Pimply 18 October 2013 14: 27
            +2
            Quote: Russ69
            The Americans, most often blame their losses on the Air Force for technical reasons, Israel for air defense.
            Now, sometimes one message contradicts another, and even more so at that time.

            Most of the losses of the Air Force and occurs for technical reasons. And I don’t remember something in Israel that Israeli planes shot down by enemy planes recorded on air defense. Meaning?
        3. 31231
          31231 18 October 2013 13: 11
          +3
          Yes, we remember, you are as honest as the Americans. Bggg. Your losses are mostly not military, right ?!
          By the way, all the cons for the article from the Jews for sure.
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 18 October 2013 14: 28
            -1
            Quote: 31231
            Yes, we remember, you are as honest as the Americans. Bggg. Your losses are mostly not military, right ?!
            By the way, all the cons for the article from the Jews for sure.

            You have a claim - argue them.
            1. 31231
              31231 18 October 2013 19: 03
              +1
              Below "UVB SU Today, 18:08 ↑" I posted a link to the article by Oleg Kaptsov.
              I am not saying that it is true, but the version of Israel is just an opinion.
              1. Pimply
                Pimply 18 October 2013 19: 38
                +1
                Quote: 31231
                I am not saying that it is true, but the version of Israel is just an opinion.

                If you put it this way, then I would hardly have any questions.
        4. svp67
          svp67 18 October 2013 14: 58
          +2
          Quote: Aron Zaavi
          In Israel, it is impossible to hide the losses.

          Oh, whether ...
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 18 October 2013 15: 40
            +1
            Quote: svp67
            Oh, whether ...

            Yes. The country is small, everyone goes to serve. Sufficiently strong left-wing press, which loves to plunge the government into the mud face. There is an extremely independent state controller. Hiding even one loss threatens with the fall of the cabinet and the actual expulsion from politics.
            An example is the story of a secret "Prisoner X" agent of the Mossad who turned in two important agents to Hezbollah for his own promotion.
            1. svp67
              svp67 18 October 2013 15: 47
              +1
              Quote: Pimply
              Yes

              In cases of death of special forces, operations outside of Israel. Your country will immediately recognize the loss and most important WHERE and HOW it happened?
              1. Pimply
                Pimply 18 October 2013 16: 10
                +1
                Quote: svp67
                In cases of death of special forces, operations outside of Israel. Your country will immediately recognize the loss and most important WHERE and HOW it happened?

                It is not widely advertised; there is a ban on the publication of a full name. There is a certain signature stamp. Military historians often work with such data. But to hide the loss of a person as such is virtually unrealistic. There were examples of deaths of special forces soldiers, usually it is not reported only where and how. Mossad is probably harder. But this is not a loss of the plane and the pilot, and there is a different level of secrecy and other working conditions.
        5. tomket
          tomket 18 October 2013 22: 08
          0
          and do you believe that ????
        6. SkiF_RnD
          SkiF_RnD 20 October 2013 13: 02
          0
          Quote: Aaron Zawi
          Quote: Avenger711
          That's just the Israelis are masters of concealing losses.

          In Israel, it is impossible to hide the losses.


          If you read the comments under the article from the beginning to this point, your words do not inspire confidence, do not you? hi
      2. Pimply
        Pimply 18 October 2013 14: 25
        +1
        Quote: Avenger711
        That's just the Israelis are masters of concealing losses.

        How? And if you are already charging, argue.
    3. Sirocco
      Sirocco 18 October 2013 09: 49
      +6
      Quote: Aron Zaavi
      In 1982, the AOI Air Force did not lose aircraft in air battles.

      Of course, you have invisible planes and non-knockers, like tanks. Yes, and your soldiers are invulnerable, and untreated))))
      War of 1982, 06-11.06.82 - The Syrian Air Force shot down 42 Israeli aircraft in air battles (including at least 5 F-15 and 6 F-16A) and 1 UAV. Another 27-35 Israeli aircraft were shot down by Syrian air defense systems. 15.08.82/102/1 TASS issued a statement that Israeli claims that Israel allegedly shot down 70 Syrian aircraft, having lost XNUMX from air defense fires, are nothing more than a lie and that Syria destroyed about XNUMX Israeli aircraft during the battles over the Bekaa Valley.
      1. Aaron Zawi
        Aaron Zawi 18 October 2013 09: 54
        -1
        Quote: Sirocco
        Quote: Aron Zaavi
        In 1982, the AOI Air Force did not lose aircraft in air battles.

        Of course, you have invisible planes and non-knockers, like tanks. Yes, and your soldiers are invulnerable, and untreated))))

        I have already answered. When planes are shot down or they crash themselves, none of this secret does.
      2. newnutella
        newnutella 18 October 2013 09: 57
        +3
        No, all this is not true and propaganda. No one could bring down the Jews. And if the plane was shot down, it spontaneously materialized in the hangar whole.
        Forgive me my irony.
        1. Aaron Zawi
          Aaron Zawi 18 October 2013 10: 01
          +2
          Are you too lazy to use a search engine? Here is the F-16 information. It is on the Russian site.
          http://www.airwar.ru/history/locwar/bv/f16i/f16_isr.html
          1. 31231
            31231 18 October 2013 13: 18
            +1
            You are also on a Russian site now, so what ?! Believe your words ?! All the same, not the boys are sitting here.
            1. Pimply
              Pimply 18 October 2013 14: 34
              -1
              Quote: 31231
              s now also on the Russian site and what ?! Believe your words ?! All the same, not the boys are sitting here.


              For the most part, it is they. Well, there are also a lot of illiterate people working on xenophobic batteries.
        2. Pimply
          Pimply 18 October 2013 14: 33
          +2
          Quote: newnutella
          No, all this is not true and propaganda. No one could bring down the Jews. And if the plane was shot down, it spontaneously materialized in the hangar whole.

          Could, and more than once. And shot down. But the 1982 year was not marked by this. The data on losses over Lebanon I cited above. Based on your logic, Israel was supposed to shut up the losses in 1973, during the War of Attrition, the war of 1967, etc.
      3. Pimply
        Pimply 18 October 2013 14: 30
        +2
        Quote: Sirocco
        Of course, you have invisible planes and non-knockers, like tanks. Yes, and your soldiers are invulnerable, and untreated))))

        No, just for the 1982 year, the Israeli Air Force had an overwhelming advantage, possessing a new generation of aircraft, UAVs and BRVOs. Which, for example, was not at the 1973 year.

        Based on your logic, the losses of 1973, and the war of attrition, and the losses of 1967 should have been hiding. Is it surprising that they weren’t swept under the carpet?
    4. apostrophe
      apostrophe 18 October 2013 09: 55
      0
      Yes, who would doubt laughing
    5. Professor
      Professor 18 October 2013 12: 08
      0
      Israeli pilot catapulted over the sea.

      And you ask them about the name of the pilot or the side number of the allegedly downed plane. I guarantee, in response there will be silence.
    6. Civil
      Civil 18 October 2013 12: 59
      +2
      To whom it is not clear to believe, however, f 15, at that time was probably the most advanced exterminator, until su 27 appeared
  2. Rinat 1
    Rinat 1 18 October 2013 09: 04
    +8
    Great country, Great people, Great technology !!!
  3. faraon
    faraon 18 October 2013 09: 38
    10
    The Mig family is a well-proven technique that meets all the requirements. But this technique is difficult to use for unprepared pilots, pay attention as soon as our aircraft are in the wrong hands, complaints about poor flight qualities immediately go.
    Or maybe the Middle East pilots need to get the education appropriate to our school, go through that strict selection according to all the indicators entering the air force military schools, rather than a short take-off and landing course, then aircraft will be used more efficiently.
    1. Katsin1
      Katsin1 18 October 2013 14: 35
      -7
      Well, as for the MIGs, you are in a hurry ... They are inferior to the efoks, especially in electronics (as well as SU). I would be very happy if instead of the F16 the Egyptians had the Mig-29, and the Saudis instead of the F15 Su-35
      1. washi
        washi 18 October 2013 15: 05
        0
        And if instead of adherents of Islam the representatives of other religions would appear?
        Do you know that Islamists cannot control modern technology in a quality manner, much less develop it?
        Destroy the Arabs - one attack on the SA and Qatar.
        No money, no problem.
        Arabs do nothing for free. YOU have one roots.
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 18 October 2013 15: 40
          0
          Quote: Vasya
          Destroy the Arabs - one attack on the SA and Qatar.

          Bravo. So you have solved all global problems.
      2. beard999
        beard999 18 October 2013 16: 36
        +4
        Quote: Katsin1
        and the Saudis instead of the F15 Su-35

        Well, you are Netanyahu and K, tell me. You’re the coolest, you’ll tear them all ... Yeah. And then in reality everything happens differently - any sale of weapons to neighboring countries causes a political reaction of the Israeli leadership close to hysterical. Even when the United States wanted to sell the F-15s to the Saudis, Israel immediately started dancing with tambourines http://news.mail.ru/politics/4233725/. As a result, the Saudis will receive truncated versions of the aircraft without "fire control systems"! And do you manage to dream of a Su-35 in neighboring countries ... In Israel, few have brought corpses from the war? Want to have more? It’s just interesting, in the event of a real collision of the F-15 with the Su-35, where do you yourself will be - in the cockpit of a fighter, or do you plan to continue to sit at home, clave pulling?
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 18 October 2013 16: 38
          -3
          Quote: beard999
          It’s just interesting, in the event of a real collision of the F-15 with the Su-35, where do you yourself will be - in the cockpit of a fighter, or do you plan to continue to sit at home, clave pulling?

          Are you basically trying to cause a conflict and violate the rules of the forum?
          1. beard999
            beard999 19 October 2013 16: 40
            +2
            Quote: Pimply
            Are you basically trying to cause a conflict and violate the rules of the forum?

            Pupyrchaty officially accepted you as moderators or did you enroll yourself? Do you want to attract the administration? I'm not against. Let them decide whether I violated the rules of the site, or is it you, once again, replacing the administration, make comments to other participants in the discussion, without having the slightest reason and rights. Not much to take on? TOPWAR with crow crow barked for an hour?
        2. faraon
          faraon 19 October 2013 12: 57
          0
          Let me answer you, I don’t sit in the cockpit of a fighter, but I don’t understand much in military affairs. So I will answer you with full responsibility at this point in time. The skill of fighter pilots is achieved by flying hours, performing tactical missions. Now compare the raids of Russian pilots with Israeli Pilots. Remember 90 years how many cool specialists were thrown out of the army on the street, these are not painful losses worse than any war. Next, who replaced, and no one, having understood what was happening, young officers who left on their own, who were lined up for reduction, the officer corps was destroyed to the very minimum. Judging by the information here on the forum, only recently has the Russian government realized that it cannot go on like this, it is not necessary to restore the military industry, and most importantly the Army, military traditions.
          So the point is not in the combat vehicle, but in who is sitting on it.
          God forbid Kozhuteich restore the army, raise it to a new level in the modern army, which will be specialists and not the sources and gardeners of the summer cottages.
          1. beard999
            beard999 19 October 2013 16: 42
            +1
            Quote: faraon
            The skill of fighter pilots is achieved by flying hours, completing tactical missions. Now compare the raids of Russian pilots with Israeli pilots.

            Say "you don’t understand much in military affairs"? Strange, but reason like an absolute amateur. I'm not trying to offend you. Not at all. Firstly, only with a large “flying hours” and “completing tactical missions” wars are not won. Luftwaffe pilots raid almost throughout the war, was higher than the USSR pilots. Germany lost the war. During the Korean War, did a larger “raid” of American pilots help them win the air war with Soviet pilots? Not horseradish! In Vietnam, American pilots had a much larger "raid" than the Vietnamese. The US lost the war.
            Secondly. I have repeatedly written to your fellow countrymen - one must take into account not only one’s forces, but also take into account the enemy’s forces, as a whole. Now compare the capabilities of the Russian Armed Forces (in general) and the Israeli Armed Forces.
            Thirdly and this is the main thing. There is no doubt that the technique itself plays a significant role in victory. The opinion of your fellow countryman Katsin1 that MiGs are "on the head inferior to efk" are only cheap show-offs, and nothing more. Does he know the capabilities of extreme modifications of the MiG-29, and even more so the Su-35? Yes, he only saw them in pictures on the net. What will the Egyptians fight against you - on the existing F-16C block 40 or on the Russian MiG-35, or the Saudis - on the existing trimmed F-15S or on the Russian Su-35C, in your opinion, does not matter what? Don't you see the difference at all? Su-30MKI won air battles at F-15C http://topwar.ru/352-f-22-protiv-su-37.html. Can you tell who has more “flying hours”, among Americans or Indians? Or guess yourself?
            1. faraon
              faraon 20 October 2013 13: 38
              0
              I think that you will not deny the concept of combat experience, please do not project the training of Soviet-Russian pilots for the training of pilots in the Middle East. As for the latter, it is clearly inferior to both Russian and Israeli. In this I see the main reason for the defeat of Arab aviation in Middle East conflicts, in theirs the ability to use the full potential of a combat vehicle.
              I unsubscribed to Katsin if you want to read my opinion.
              Well, about the Luftwaffe pilots, who taught them to fly at all? Do not be lazy to look into the history of the USSR since the creation of OSAVIAKHIMOV, when the slogan was "Every Komsomol member is on a plane" And who helped Germany with their advanced developments in the field of aircraft construction.
              1. beard999
                beard999 20 October 2013 18: 24
                +1
                Quote: faraon
                I think that you will not deny the concept of combat experience, please do not project the training of Soviet-Russian pilots in the training of pilots in the Middle East.

                Combat experience is certainly very important. But why did you remember him? When did the Israeli Air Force have extreme combat experience in confronting the Arab Air Force? More than 30 years ago. Already in the ranks of neither the people who served then, nor technology. Naturally, the same applies to the USSR / Russia Air Force. Now the only one who can boast of relatively recent combat experience is the Americans. However, combat experience is not an absolute guarantee of victory. The Luftwaffe had combat experience, the Americans in Vietnam also had not a small combat experience ...
                As for the Arab Air Force. Firstly, I would not generalize. For example, the Syrian Air Force in October 1973 proved to be quite worthy and their pilots were in no way inferior to Israeli pilots. What can’t you say, for example, about the Egyptian pilots ... If we talk about today, then the training of the air force pilots of such countries as Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Turkey is completely unknown. Information on their preparation is generally extremely scarce. But this does not mean that the training of pilots in these countries is unsatisfactory. And even more so, in no case can you judge it based on your past victories.
                1. faraon
                  faraon 21 October 2013 01: 58
                  0
                  Nobody talks about past victories, and it would be ridiculous to remember this - this is history. Above in the comments I wrote such a simple thing. As a general education program at school. So, I say to you with 100% confidence that it does not correspond to the level of the Russian school. .And as for the mentality of the Middle East. Until recently, the English army school prevailed. That is, the army was built according to the English principle, charters, laws and codes. But what was acceptable in those days is not acceptable now. Simply put, the son of a plowman there will never be an officer. There are castes of the army aristocracy and everyone else. That's what killed the Arab armies in 1973.
                  And as for the flight crews of these armies, the colonel’s son wanted to become a pilot, he became one. Honor. Respect, position in society, salary, BUT he did not become a master. Patriotism, love of the motherland, when his life is threatened with danger. This is what I’m talking about.
            2. Know-nothing
              Know-nothing 20 October 2013 13: 49
              0
              Quote: beard999
              Su-30MKI won air battles against F-15C

              Yes, but they participated in the "battles" 4 F-15 vs 12 Su-30, and even with a threefold numerical superiority (and the Americans not using AIM-120 and AWAX), the Indians lost one battle out of four.
              1. beard999
                beard999 20 October 2013 18: 25
                +1
                Quote: Dunno
                Yes, but 4 F-15s took part in the "battles" against 12 Su-30s

                You would follow the link, read: "..." Inside Air Force ". He cited even more shocking data for Americans. It turned out that not only the Su-15MKI, but also the MiG-30, MiG-27, and even the “old” MiG-29 Bizon, who also showed themselves above all praise, “fought” against the F-21C / D “Eagle”. They defeated not only the American Eagles, but also the French Mirage-2000. The American site, Washington ProFile, called the success of Russian aircraft "a complete surprise" for American pilots. "
                And it started back in 1992 when 2 Russian Su-27UBs won aerial combat against the F-15D in Langley (on the basis of the 1st tactical fighter wing). Famous talks between American pilots - “Where is the Flanker?” - “He is behind you”, precisely from those events ... The Indians of victory in the Su-30 have repeatedly demonstrated http://vpk-news.ru/articles/12637, including with an equal number of aircraft participating in air battles.
      3. SkiF_RnD
        SkiF_RnD 20 October 2013 13: 39
        +1
        Can you tell us more about the F-15 and Su-35? And about electronics too. And then I can't find something, in what way does the "American" surpass?
  4. UVB
    UVB 18 October 2013 09: 49
    +3
    Article minus. The author relishes the examples of the unsuccessful use of the MiG-25 and the loss, and not a word about his merits as a scout. Detailed photographs of Israeli territory hardly meant less than a few enemy aircraft shot down.
    1. faraon
      faraon 18 October 2013 11: 03
      +8
      Why are you so categorical?, In my opinion, the article is very good, telling about aviation technology in Russia, which has no equal in the world, what aviation showrooms showed in France, I was at one such show, and I saw the enthusiastic looks of specialists from the USA, France, Germany There is no better machine than the Russian MiG or Su, the question of other partners buying this equipment for their technical development can not reveal all the capabilities of these combat vehicles. Look at the essays of Russian pilots there, everything is written specifically how the Egyptian pilots fought, Syrian and other, While leading there were Russian pilots the above countries were masters of the enemy’s skies, as soon as the situation changed, the enemy became the master, and so on. In their armies there are no charters prescribing military personnel how to behave in a particular situation, that’s the reason.
      1. UVB
        UVB 18 October 2013 11: 33
        +2
        I completely agree with you, and in no way doubt the merits of domestic technology in capable hands. But there is practically nothing about this in the article. I did not like her one-sidedness. By the way, regarding our equipment and specialists using it. I read somewhere that in Vietnam, the United States lost 1/3 of its air force. This may be exaggerated, but their losses were enormous. And the merit in this, of course, is the Vietnamese comrades.
        1. faraon
          faraon 18 October 2013 11: 59
          +4
          Or rather, it’s more like Soviet military experts, See one guerrilla warfare, and manage sophisticated technology another. Here we need fundamental knowledge that was given only by the Soviet school. Remember 90 years, teachers, enthusiasts, in spite of all this booth, tried to invest knowledge. But for the most part, all kinds of Paid gymnasiums, schools, colleges, etc. that Russia now has a Pepsi generation.
          You probably noticed that I live in another country, Israel. So I’ll tell you from my daughter’s experience. All of her knowledge is based on the fifth grade level, and if it weren’t for paying private teachers and all courses, then she wouldn’t have what she has now. well this is for my child I could do it, but many could not, although education is free here, but not everyone receives the certificate.
          Here is such a fate awaited and Russia.
          1. UVB
            UVB 18 October 2013 13: 23
            +1
            Or maybe more likely the Soviet military experts... And who did I mean? Did you think that I seriously wrote about the Vietnamese comrades? What would they do without our specialists?
            1. faraon
              faraon 19 October 2013 12: 43
              +1
              I, in fact, did not hide it, and did not doubt it. I myself at one time performed these functions, as is customary in the official version of the USSR, fulfilled the international duty of helping the fraternal people.
        2. samoletil18
          samoletil18 18 October 2013 18: 53
          +3
          Soviet comrades spoke highly of Vietnamese comrades, unlike the Egyptian comrades.
      2. Katsin1
        Katsin1 18 October 2013 14: 37
        -9
        Russian pilots on MIGs were utterly defeated in July 1970 in an air battle over Egypt
        1. commentor
          commentor 18 October 2013 14: 50
          +6
          Russian pilots? Yes, you are raving, dear.
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 18 October 2013 15: 59
            -1
            Quote: commentor
            Russian pilots? Yes, you are raving, dear.

            Soviet, to be more precise. A well-known battle. 30 July 1970 years, 5 downed Soviet MiG-21, 3 dead pilot. One Mirage Israeli Air Force damaged, but sat down.
            Yurchenko - shot down, died; Yakovlev - shot down, died; Syrkin - shot down, survived; Zhuravlev - shot down, died. The fifth, presumably, was Kamenev. The Mirage of Asher Snir was damaged, and he hardly reached the base.
            1. UVB
              UVB 18 October 2013 18: 08
              +1
              Dear Pimpy! You presented the results of the battle, and not its course, especially since in fact it was several clashes. Who wants details, I can remind you: http://topwar.ru/28353-sovetskie-letchiki-protiv-vvs-izrailya-pobeda-s-suhim-sch
              etom.html
        2. faraon
          faraon 19 October 2013 13: 07
          -2
          Dear Katsin, you are mistaken, While the Soviet pilots flew in the skies of Egypt with the first number and the second with the Egyptians. In any case, there were no military clashes, both the Soviet and Israeli pilots tried to avoid this, since the experience of fighting was the same, but as the Soviet specialists were deported by a lady, then the Egyptians came up with a cap, Israeli pilots immediately conquered the skies over Egypt. The question is why? Yes because. as I wrote above in the comments from the Egyptians
          lacked experience, knowledge of tactics, and the operation of this type of machine. It was not Soviet pilots who were defeated, although they died, but Egyptian pilots for the above reasons
      3. Motors1991
        Motors1991 18 October 2013 15: 35
        0
        My friend, an aviation colonel, served as an adviser in Algeria, so he said that the Arabs are ready to fly on any of our MIGs. Why? Because if a needle hits the Mirage, they need to be ejected, and the MIGs arrive with up to a hundred holes, one of which can be a meter per meter
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 18 October 2013 16: 11
          -2
          Quote: Motors1991
          My friend, an aviation colonel, served as an adviser in Algeria, and so he said, Arabs are ready to fly on any of our MIGs.

          Is that why Algeria sent Migi back?
          Migi is a good car. But Mirage is not a sissy.
          1. ruslan207
            ruslan207 18 October 2013 19: 18
            +1
            Pupyrych, then there were Soviet twinks and these Russian differences are the same
  5. vlad0
    vlad0 18 October 2013 11: 00
    +2
    Great plane! Altitude - 20 km, range to the target of 40 km, bombing from cabbage, deviation of 10-20 meters (from the stories of senior comrades). No wonder the Americans made Yeltsin cut the MiG-25 RB in the first place. And there are still few analogues to it.
    1. ruslan207
      ruslan207 18 October 2013 19: 37
      -1
      Vlad0 nonsense rocket is still faster and higher there is an instant-31 cut the twinks in Russia mess these twinks 25 and now rusted down and reconnaissance there are UAVs and satellites and there is no risk of losing a car like in Georgia
  6. Turkestan
    Turkestan 18 October 2013 11: 33
    -1
    MiG 25 fighter interceptor and the combat use of this aircraft is extremely limited. This machine is not capable of conducting maneuverable air combat, despite the fact that it is YES high-speed, Yes high-altitude, Yes well technically armed. And the author is right that in a limited armed conflict it is very difficult and not advisable to use such aviation equipment. As a Bitter example, the death of a Russian Tu-160 aircraft in Georgia.
    1. Professor
      Professor 18 October 2013 12: 17
      +2
      Quote: Turkestan
      As a Bitter example, the death of a Russian Tu-160 aircraft in Georgia.

      There was no such thing.
      1. Turkestan
        Turkestan 19 October 2013 10: 59
        +1
        True typo Tu-22M3 I'm sorry
    2. berimor
      berimor 18 October 2013 12: 30
      +5
      Tu-22, not Tu-160!
    3. GHG
      GHG 18 October 2013 12: 44
      +4
      Wow wassat there also TU-160 shot down? laughing And what was he doing there? Surely he was armed with 16 strategic Kh-55SM cruise missiles with 200Kt of special units for attacking Tbilisi? Do not rub the crap. Tu-22m3 was shot down.
    4. smersh70
      smersh70 18 October 2013 20: 29
      0
      Quote: Turkestan
      Mig 25 fighter interceptor and the combat use of this aircraft is extremely limited

      but they showed themselves excellently during the battles in Karabakh .. thanks to their support, it was possible to bring down the Armenian offensive in May 94 .... hi
  7. Cruorvult
    Cruorvult 18 October 2013 12: 32
    +3
    Official data [edit source]

    According to official Russian sources, [19] four planes were lost during the war - three Su-25 attack aircraft and one Tu-22M3 long-range bomber / reconnaissance (originally spoke about the Tu-22MR reconnaissance modification, later about the Tu-22M3 with a special reconnaissance container instead of a bomb load).
    Berimori ahead of the rabbit
    160 thrashes with missiles over several thousand kilometers, Georgians would never have missed it
  8. Motors1991
    Motors1991 18 October 2013 14: 52
    +4
    And I was surprised how the top-secret MIGs ended up with the Arabs and especially flew over Israel in 69. They began to enter our army in 1968, it seems to me doubtful that they were thrown into the Middle East almost without break-in. In the seventies they appeared over Israel, but were used exclusively as scouts and with Soviet crews. They were not intended for maneuver combat, their task was reconnaissance, the destruction of high-altitude bombers, the breakthrough of air defense systems. Maybe the author messed up something?
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 18 October 2013 15: 59
      +2
      The Middle East was the best run-in. The best weapon is a battlefield
      1. Motors1991
        Motors1991 18 October 2013 16: 24
        +2
        I agree with you, but they just started receiving and mastering them. And again, I can not believe that the Arabs had them. Moreover, by the beginning of the 80s, after the plane was hijacked to Japan, they had undergone modernization, replaced avionics, radar , more powerful missiles are installed. So trusting such aircraft to the Arabs, to put it mildly, is not reasonable. Maybe the author had in mind the MIG-23, by the way, it was created 5 years later, in 1973.
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 18 October 2013 16: 39
          +4
          Quote: Motors1991
          I agree with you, but they have just begun to receive and master them. And again, I can not believe that the Arabs had them.

          The Arabs, as I recall, did not have them. Soviet pilots flew, and single instances flew.
          1. Motors1991
            Motors1991 18 October 2013 18: 19
            +1
            I thought it was a fairy tale about aerial combat. Firstly, they flew at an altitude of 25000m, with a cruising speed of 2700km.h, secondly they were unstable at low speeds, like the MIG-31, and thirdly, they very poorly distinguish targets against the background of the earth, well, and in the fourth they have a small load factor of 5, the bomber could be sent to battle just as well. Something tells me that the article was written by the same pilot as I. Although the plane is really outstanding , could inform interesting information.
            1. Tourist Breakfast
              Tourist Breakfast 18 October 2013 20: 16
              +1
              I thought it was a fairy tale about air combat.


              According to the article, the air battle was in the 81st year over Lebanon. Then the Syrians were already flying on the MiG-25.

              Firstly, they flew at an altitude of 25000m, with a cruising speed of 2700km.h, secondly they are most likely unstable at low speeds, like the MIG-31, thirdly they distinguish targets very poorly against the background of the earth, and fourthly they have a small coefficient overloads - 5, the bomber could be sent to battle with the same success. Something tells me that the article was written by the same pilot as I. Although the plane is really outstanding, I could provide interesting information.


              By the way, during the first ever air battle between a fighter and a UAV, the Iraqi MiG-25 shot down the Predator.
  9. nazgul-ishe
    nazgul-ishe 18 October 2013 17: 24
    0
    We were able to make a beautiful car and the rest seem to have gone and now we’re slipping something. Breakfast alone.
    1. aviator65
      aviator65 18 October 2013 21: 52
      0
      We can do it now. But to put into service, to establish mass production ... Now the market is deciding everything, and not the need of the country and the army.
  10. mizantrop22
    mizantrop22 18 October 2013 22: 14
    -1
    And now MIG-31 reconnaissance over Israeli territory as
    weak?
    1. Katsin1
      Katsin1 18 October 2013 23: 23
      0
      Weakly, Patriot PAC-3 eats it
  11. Stasi
    Stasi 18 October 2013 22: 52
    +3
    The MiG as such is an excellent machine, in terms of its characteristics not much inferior to Western aircraft. As for the Arabs, according to the recollections of our military experts, they are extremely self-confident and stupid, they learned the most elementary knowledge with difficulty, this mainly concerns the Egyptians. When the Yom Kippur War began, the Egyptian president enthusiastically thanked Soviet advisers and praised Soviet weapons. But as soon as the situation began to change, he immediately started yelling, "Bad weapon!" All the victories of the Arabs are the merit of our military advisers and specialists, who risked themselves and even gave their lives in battle. All their defeats are a merit of their self-confidence and disdain for the enemy. It is not for nothing that our specialists, comparing the Vietnamese with the Arabs, praised the Vietnamese, they are completely different, more capable of learning.
  12. sivuch
    sivuch 20 October 2013 13: 11
    +1
    http://waronline.org/fora/index.php?threads/%D0%9F%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B8
    -%D0%92%D0%92%D0%A1-%D0%98%D0%B7%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B8%D0%BB%D1%8F-%D0%B2-%D0%B2%D0%
    BE%D0%B7%D0%B4%D1%83%D1%88%D0%BD%D1%8B%D1%85-%D0%B1%D0%BE%D1%8F%D1%85.2069/page-
    5
    The topic on "Fresh" has already grown to 26 posts.

    #fifteen. (user "Siegfried Sason"). A long post about being shot down at WB is a shame for Israeli pilots. Cites the story of his childhood friend, a pilot who flew up to 15 years ("Skyhawks", "Phantoms", F-52). Eitan Ben-Eliyahu (although he is not sure what this is about him)
    He does not admit that he was shot down in the WB and claims that he was shot down by air defense fire, while his colleagues know or believe that he was shot down in the WB. (I searched the data of Eitan Ben-Eliyahu - and did not find that he was shot down at all, so it is apparently about someone else).

    # 25. (post # 40 on 10.10.13/XNUMX/XNUMX; user "Gil Hazka"). Criticizes several lines in the table on skywar.ru - what he knows personally.
    1) Tzvika Vered from 117th ("Mirage-3" 6625, on "Skyvor" - entry for 09.10.73, allegedly shot down by the Syrian MiG-21) - shot down by air defense fire.
    2) Ami Lahav from 117th ("Mirage-3" 6632, on "Skyvor" - entry for 07.10.73/21/XNUMX, allegedly shot down by a Syrian MiG-XNUMX) - was hit by an Atol missile in the WB, but was able to continue flying in side of Israel. However, then he came under air defense fire and was shot down.
    3) Amikhai Rokah from 117th (Mirage-3 785, Skyvor entry for 12.10.73/21/XNUMX, allegedly shot down by a Syrian MiG-XNUMXMF) - it is not clear how he died. Maybe in the WB, maybe from the SAM fire.
    4) Eliezer Adar from 117th (Mirage-3 14, on Skyvor - entry for 17.10.73/21/XNUMX, allegedly overconsumption of fuel during the battle with the Syrian MiG-XNUMX) - was still catapulted due to lack of fuel, but shortage was caused not by its overspending in the WB, but due to a technical breakdown that interrupted the flow of fuel to the engine.
    5) Ran Goren and Mikha Oren from 107th ("Phantom", on "Skyvor" - entry for 12.10.73/21/XNUMX, allegedly shot down by an Egyptian MiG-XNUMX, but questionable) - shot down by air defense fire.

    # 26. (post # 41 on 10.10.13/XNUMX/XNUMX; user "Ezrah"). Provides a link to another Russian site, although there is nothing on the topic.
    http://www.airwar.ru/history/locwar/bv/poteri/poteri.html
  13. faraon
    faraon 20 October 2013 13: 15
    0
    Quote: Katsin1
    Well, as for the MIGs, you are in a hurry ... They are inferior to the efoks, especially in electronics (as well as SU). I would be very happy if instead of the F16 the Egyptians had the Mig-29, and the Saudis instead of the F15 Su-35

    in terms of combat performance at that time, Mig was one of the best combat aircraft and was much superior to the F-16 in something, but again the question is not who controls this machine in order to reveal all its fighting qualities in battle, in the subject the Israeli-Egyptian-serial conflicts, the Arab pilots were not up to par, they were beaten as partridges on take-off, and subsequently as the level of their knowledge and training was in many ways inferior to the Israeli pilots, followed by complaints from the Arab countries on all Russian weapons.
    1. ruslan207
      ruslan207 20 October 2013 20: 10
      0
      In the export version, the same instant25 didn’t have a view from below, the same f-16a didn’t have a radar for maneuverability at the instant-23mln level, the f-15 exceeded them all and the Arabs flew to the last did not look at the fuel left the plane and the car died that it such flyers
  14. Alex 241
    Alex 241 20 October 2013 20: 20
    +1
    Quote: ruslan207
    Mig25 had no view from below
    Explain.
  15. sivuch
    sivuch 23 October 2013 12: 21
    +1
    Apparently, it was meant that the Tornado radar did not see the target on the background of the earth
  16. Beiderlei
    Beiderlei 7 January 2015 17: 12
    0
    They didn’t bring down then, and then they learned!