Merkava-4 active defense takes BTR for an enemy missile

On Thursday, October 10, during an operation conducted by the 9 Battalion of the 401 Armored Brigade in the north of the Gaza Strip, an emergency occurred.

According to the Galey IDF radio station, as a result of the Windbreaker malfunction, one of tanks it worked, taking for the enemy rocket the "Namer" armored personnel carrier of the "Golani" brigade, which operated together with the tankers.

Fortunately, the system did not launch an anti-missile anti-missile system, but an explosive was released. As a result of a system failure, no one was injured and no damage was caused. The IDF began to investigate the causes of the failure.

Tanks "Merkava-4" 9-th battalion were among the first to be equipped with the latest active protection system "Meil Ruach" ("Windbreaker", the export name - Trophy) produced by the "Raphael" concern.

Comments

[il grand casino]

It happens))) What else to say

[Kibalchish]

BTR for the rocket ??????????? Well, at what speed does this prodigy ride ??? Hypersonic armored vehicles invented in Israel ???

[smersh70]

Quote: Kibalchish

Hypersonic armored vehicles invented in Israel ???

right now the Professor will come up and explain everything. ... the subject of merkava is his horse. ...

[Ingvar 72]

Professor, even today you have pleased us. You are also not all thank God.

[GSH-18]

Merkava is really not a bad tank. Jews consider him invulnerable and the best in the world. They designed it by natyv who got the necessary know-how (in particular, the technology of our "Arena" slammed) Well, it turned out a supermodernized "Abrams" Estessno, the more complex the device, the greater the option of system failure. A computer in this piece of iron is not enough! As you know, computer glitches can take very exotic and funny forms. Well, the tank still did not take its own crew for enemies!

[Pimply]

Quote: GSH-18

Jews consider him invulnerable and the best in the world. They designed it by natyvv who got the necessary know-how (in particular, the technology of our "Arena" slammed)

Tell me, where did you get such grass from? Give, plz, the words the best in the world from any Israeli article on the Merkava tank. How do you connect KAZ Arena with Vetrovka when they are built on different principles of defeat, and even outwardly differ significantly?
Not tired of shining illiteracy? Or are you proud of her?

[Alex 241]

Hi Zhen, my question is. Is windbreaker an IR system?

[Pimply]

Quote: Alex 241

Hi Zhen, my question is. Is windbreaker an IR system?

There is a radar, as I recall. 4 perimeter antennas. The signal goes to the computer, and that, calculating the trajectory, makes a decision. Hardly due to exhaust. Would put on a software failure of one of the systems.

[Alex 241]

It is strange that there is no heat channel; radars against the background of the earth are hard to work with.

[yanus]

Quote: Alex 241

It is strange that there is no heat channel; radars against the background of the earth are hard to work with.

Firstly, it was hard to work on the background of the earth with a meter radar of the 60s.
Secondly, neither the windbreaker nor the arena actually works against the background of the earth.

[Alex 241]

This is understandable, I'm interested in how goals are selected.

[Pimply]

Quote: Alex 241

This is understandable, I'm interested in how goals are selected.

But this is unknown. A military secret.

[Alex 241]

Here's something Zhen found: The Trophy Active PROTECTION (KAZ) Complex was officially presented on March 8, 2005 at the 2nd International Conference / Exhibition on Low Intensity Conflicts (LIC) in Tel Aviv, March 7-10, KAZ The Trophy is the result of 10 years of collaboration between Rafael Armament Development Authority and Israel Aircraft Industries / Elta, led by the Defense Ministry's R&D Directorate and also funded by the Defense Ministry. Raphael is the main contractor for this program. The Trophy system can detect, classify, track and destroy all anti-tank guided missiles and rockets at a considerable distance from the protected object - in some cases, destroying the attack means without detonation, which means that there is no residual effect on the object. Ben-Yoash, head of system development from Rafael, said. The distance at which the Trophy system can hit the incoming projectiles of the attack weapon is classified, however, judging by the videos, it is 10-15 meters. The Trophy active protection complex consists of two elements: an Elta radar connected to four antennas located on the front and aft parts and sides of the platform, and providing 360 ° protection (the developer claims that the radars are also effective against anti-tank guided missiles for attack from above, however, no confirmation of this was found), and two Rafael-developed mechanisms for the destruction of incoming weapons, located on each side of the platform. The Trophy radar system searches for and detects means / means of attack and starts tracking only if, during the calculation, it is expected to hit the vehicle. In the latter case, according to Ben-Yoash, a countermeasure is being put in place to disable the facility. The key requirement for the "mechanism of destruction", he noted, is the requirement that the destruction of the means of attack causes minimal collateral damage. The developers state that the maximum probability of hitting a dismounted infantryman who is near a platform protected by the Trophy system did not exceed 1 percent.

[Alex 241]

Although the mechanism for the destruction of attacking ammunition is not completely known, it is assumed that it works on the principle of an impact nucleus formed by an explosive projectile. The "Trophy" active protection complex will be included in the combat control system of the "Merkava" Mk 4 tank, allowing it to quickly hit detected launch positions of attack weapons with directed fire resistance or transmit information to other tanks. During the demonstration at the exhibition during the assessment of the combat capabilities of the Trophy system, the Merkava Mk 3 tank was used. On the Merkava Mk 3 tank, the system was installed in a hinged configuration (instead of onboard armor protection modules). However, Ben-Yoash stated that the system will be integrated on the Mk 4 Trophy tank as part of a complete protection kit. This system can also be installed on a range of light, medium and heavily armored platforms. The total mass of the system, which is about 454 kg. Major General Ron-Tal, chief of the Israel Defense Forces ground forces, told reporters that the immediate plan for the Trophy system is to equip the Mk 4 Merkava with it. However, in the future it will be suitable for installation on lighter vehicles like the Stryker. The system was tested in a mounted configuration on one of three Strykers acquired by Israel to assess its combat capabilities. Rafael teamed up with General Dynamics Land Systems (GDLS) to sell the Trophy system in the US The US Army is currently looking for a lightweight the system for their Stryker cars and the Trophy system can satisfy the need for a quality solution for this program. Under a cooperation agreement, production for the US program will be distributed between the firms and Raphael GDLS, although GDLS will be the main one in the tender. Similar active protection complexes are being developed also in the USA, however, completely ready and at the same time meeting the requirements of the military x samples are not yet available. BTVT.narod.ru Sources: 1. Robin Hughes JDW Middle East Editor, Tel Aviv Israel Armored Protection System "revolutionary" 2. Jane Defense Weekly, March 16, 2005, vol. 42, No. 11, p.6

[Pimply]

Yes that's right. Plus has been revised in recent years.

[Alex 241]

Trophy: Israel's Active Tank Defense System

[Patriot.ru.]

Fast-moving targets are destroyed. The rest of the Namer armored personnel carrier of the Golani Brigade are going where they were going. And there is no secret.

[yanus]

Quote: Alex 241

This is understandable, I'm interested in how goals are selected.

Speed ​​+ distance + direction. This is enough to determine whether or not it will fall. Accordingly, this is enough to make a decision.
Basically, this is the standard kit for any radar.
The chip and the complexity of such systems is not the search for goals, but in the mechanisms of their destruction.
The Arena has a simpler and more reliable system. Well, in theory it's safer. But the risk for the infantry is slightly higher + each sector is covered with a limited number of "interceptors".
Trophy's mechanism is more complicated, which in theory increases the errors in hitting targets. But from the declared characteristics, it seems like each sector is covered by a large number of "interceptor missiles" (well, or charges, call it whatever you want). A side effect on the infantry is just below.

In general, there is a lot of classified information on Trophy. The reasons are understandable. In general, the prospects for KAZ for armored vehicles are rather vague, but for helicopters, attack aircraft - very much so. Here the experience with Trophy is much preferable, the experience of developing the Arena, again because of the defeat system.

[Pimply]

Trophy for a helicopter is already experienced sort of released.

[Alex 241]

Zhenya there are even more questions: at what distance will the rocket be detonated?

[Pimply]

and again: FIG knows him. Somewhere 10-15 meters, I think. It is generally not clear there whether the warhead is being undermined. Judging by the video - the distance is negligible.

[Alex 241]

Quote: Pimply

Somewhere 10-15 meters, I think.

Zhenya, even with a missile missile of the maneuverable r-60, p-73 missile, a warhead is detonated from a non-contact fuse at a distance of 2-5 meters, and a guaranteed defeat is made, but if it is a heavy missile, and if the helicopters work in order?

[yanus]

Quote: Alex 241

Quote: Pimply

Somewhere 10-15 meters, I think.

Zhenya, even with a missile missile of the maneuverable r-60, p-73 missile, a warhead is detonated from a non-contact fuse at a distance of 2-5 meters, and a guaranteed defeat is made, but if it is a heavy missile, and if the helicopters work in order?

Such systems are made primarily from MANPADS missiles.
Destruction of the rocket will be at significantly greater distances. It's just that if warhead missiles detonate, it's safer.
The target selection mechanism is much more complicated than in the tank version. First, the rocket is not always accurately directed towards the helicopter. Secondly, the speeds of the helicopter and the rocket are comparable. That is, there are two options - either to quickly calculate all the options, or to determine the target only by size, speed and distance, without taking into account "hits does not hit".
The guidance mechanism is also very complicated. Helicopter vibrations, indirect motion of the target, high speed of the helicopter itself and its maneuvering. In short, complex and fast mechanics.

So, Trophy is a system as a system, nothing outstanding. But effective options for helicopters - this is a real achievement.

[Pimply]

Quote: yanus

So, Trophy is a system as a system, nothing outstanding.

In it, the individual elements of the system are perhaps interesting in themselves.

[Pimply]

Quote: Alex 241

Zhenya, even with a missile missile of the maneuverable r-60, p-73 missile, a warhead is detonated from a non-contact fuse at a distance of 2-5 meters, and a guaranteed defeat is made, but if it is a heavy missile, and if the helicopters work in order?

Are you talking about Trophy Aviation? Well, Janus gave a comment below.

http://topwar.ru/14127-sistema-kaz-dlya-zaschity-vertoletov-ot-rafael.html

By the way, the translation of the professional on this topic.

[Alex 241]

Zhen is advertising information, where are the weight and size parameters of the system, working out according to elevation and azimuth. You don’t think that by analogy with the tank it covers 360 degrees.

[Pimply]

Nothing definite on the system can be said yet. Too little information.

[Alex 241]

Thank you, this is what interested me, side effects.

[Patriot.ru.]

Azimuth speed and elevation angle. And the destruction mechanisms are rockets.

[Basarev]

And in fact - the Arena releases a cloud of damaging particles, and Windbreaker - a missile

[Saburov]

I was at the tests of the Arena and Drozd, the active defense systems, in principle, do their job well, but in what conditions you are going to use it, it’s one thing when you are in the field and somewhere a grenade launcher has settled down, and if the enemy is hammering with artillery, he uses aviation around everything boils and smokes, scum of the earth and stones, constant flare, fire of small arms and heavy machine guns, then the efficiency of the KAZ is reduced to zero and it becomes just ballast, if you use it in counter-Pisan actions (counter-terrorism), then the meaning of there is no god in it, since any group of fighters prepared in the slightest degree can do this better than a tank and as a result its task is only to support fire from safe distances, in the second Chechen there were two 80s with Arena for testing, half of the ST worked out nowhere, although the manufacturers claimed that it works selectively and does not respond to low-speed objects (birds, clods of land, etc.), the mine went off and the door of the car flew towards the tank, the ST worked and so on for any other half crap. so its use is especially effective in local conflicts when the opposing side has only light anti-tank weapons, so the decision of the commission decided not to recommend serial production, and it costs a lot, and there are still many shortcomings, for this money you can get in touch to heels, so for large-scale military operations, the thing is useless, maybe with the development of electronics, selection of goals, you get something worthwhile.

[kirieeleyson]

in each barrel a stopper, do not subtract nor add. Popyrchaty, Merkava is really the best tank in the world according to the inhabitants of Israel and some ... from the Air Force. But, more than 40% of the tanks are under repair, it has long been clear to everyone, even from the repair (s) shops they are immediately sent for modernization. I can’t say what is better with us, but there are many times more tanks, and we even drive 64 with 40 years of experience !!!
That's where the problem, the sophisticated electronic LMS and the incredibly complex system of auxiliary elements - is the big problem (as you think)
friends of acquaintances have the same mothers when meeting about merkava, they have been serving there for more than 4 years already. And what, we return to vodka to our 72. I do not want to insult someone, I used to sin this, but in general - a complex tank, you do not need to build such ones there. Saw your budget, oh, how they saw.

[svp67]

Quote: kirieeleyson

Do not rush to insult someone,

And yet, you did it. My advice is sorry.
If you do not understand? I will explain more clearly

Quote: kirieeleyson

some idiots from the air force.

- the phrase EXTRA. Admit it and apologize.

[Alex 241]

Seryozha, I understood everything, my fault, got excited, he meant that the system would be put on helicopters, read the Air Force.

[svp67]

Quote: Alex 241

Seryozha, I understood everything, my fault, got excited, he meant that the system would be put on helicopters, read the Air Force.

Well then, I apologize, I did not understand this.

And yet, you shouldn't underestimate the "Merkava". The tank is powerful, constantly being modernized and, accordingly, more modern than other tanks. In addition, one should not discount the fact that now a lot of “our former people” are working on its modernization, which turned out to be “not needed” by the military-industrial complex of Russia and Ukraine. And these were not the worst specialists.

[Alex 241]

Seryozha should not be underestimated, not even the leg from the stool, and the cast-iron frying pan. God forbid you know how to do it in good hands! According to Merkava, I agree with you, all the more practically the most warring tank.

[kirieeleyson]

but thanks for that, I didn’t know. I'm going to look for info. I meant films for a well-known company, not an abbreviation for the air force.

[kirieeleyson]

Sergei, perhaps there is a misunderstanding - I mean the BBC and their films about "the world's best tanks, planes, boats" and so on. We also have similar films, but in them we either talk about real performance characteristics, or we discuss the problems of historical inconsistencies, the history of creation a la "how it was", etc.
I didn’t mean the air force (and how sideways are they here). Then I won’t apologize

[Pimply]

Quote: kirieeleyson

we also have similar films, but in them we either talk about real performance characteristics, or discuss the problems of historical inconsistencies, the history of creation a la "how it was", etc.

Are you joking?

[kirieeleyson]

Yeah)) On rents do not breathe on their number))))))))))))

[Pimply]

Quote: kirieeleyson

But, more than 40% of the tanks are under repair, it has long been clear to everyone, even from the repair (s) shops they are immediately sent for modernization. I can’t say what is better with us, but there are many times more tanks, and we even drive 64 with 40 years of experience !!!

Details, plz, about 40%, with links. Also in detail about the best tank and links to applications.

Quote: kirieeleyson

friends of acquaintances have the same mothers when meeting about merkava, they have been serving there for more than 4 years already.

Who has served more than four years?

[kirieeleyson]

Eugene, I have "two tankmen and a pilot" friends, grew up together. They have been living there for 15 years already. All the officers, too, when we meet, we argue until we shrink. Unfortunately, I cannot give links to drunken conversations, but the overall picture is the following. We also have a lot of "dummies" and are listed in the composition, but we have more tanks, we have something to fight, which I wanted to say.

And about the "best tank" - a lot of different films, the same bibisi, the newspaper "Edinot Ahronot" also wrote about this more than once. I do not take these statements from the ceiling, which I do not condemn at all, because as the proverb says "every frog ...". There is one more problem: the extremely difficult and time-consuming process of modernizing the Merkavs, they are trying to increase the shortage of tanks entering the troops at the expense of excellent Akhzarits (I was impressed to learn more about this monster), but everything is going very slowly.

[alone]

Quote: GSH-18

Jews consider him invulnerable and the best in the world. They designed it by natyv who got the necessary know-how (in particular, the technology of our "Arena" slammed) Well, it turned out

invulnerable tanks do not exist. Any tank can be destroyed and destroyed. The survivability of a tank depends on the battle tactics and crew preparedness.

about the defect, of course, they will figure it out and fix it. They don’t try to break through and do not shout. Too pragmatic.

[Basarev]

And they don’t rightly yell. Israel is in a centuries-old siege of the Arabs.

[Omskgasmyas]

Quote: GSH-18

Well, the tank still did not take its own crew for enemies!

It will be in the next version of Merkava, unmanned. Then the machine revolt will take place. Did you watch the Terminator? This is where the Israel of the future was shown to us.

[In the reeds]

Well, firstly, nothing of the kind happened in the news. And the tank in the Mk3 image from the 188th brigade without KAZ is still

[old man54]

Quote: smersh70

right now the Professor will come up and explain everything. ... Merkava's theme is his horse

not just a skate, but he is getting Morkva for the most part in the special department of the mass media of the Central House of Artists sn, and apparently not a small one!

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: old man

not just a skate, but he is getting Morkva for the most part in the special department of the mass media of the Central House of Artists sn, and apparently not a small one!

alas, but the Professor generally does not like tanks. He considers them yesterday’s weapons and Merkava is no exception.

[Pimply]

Quote: Aron Zaavi

alas, but the Professor generally does not like tanks. He considers them yesterday’s weapons and Merkava is no exception.

And here I fundamentally disagree with Prof.

[Professor]

Quote: Pimply

And here I fundamentally disagree with Prof.

Well you give. All Zionists for one (a well-known medical fact), and you ruin all theories.

[Pimply]

Everyone else knows that the Zionists are the fifth column. So I support traditions 8) Five-column 8)))

[catapractic]

for the Middle East TVD tanks will be required more than once so it’s too early to write them off

[Altona]

Yes, just this unfortunate Namer heated up to an ugly state that his heat began to "imitate" a rocket nozzle ...

[Consmo]

Or gazanul with sparks from the pipes.
That's .

[dimon-media]

Quote: Konsmo

Or gazanul with sparks from the pipes.

.. sausages can be fried

[LaGlobal]

Quote: Kibalchish

BTR for the rocket ??????????? Well, at what speed does this prodigy ride ??? belay In Israel, invented hypersonic armored vehicles ???

Kibalchish! Thanks for the mood ...

[dimon-media]

Quote: Kibalchish

Well, at what speed does this prodigy ride ???

BatMobile, damn it

[Basarev]

A very telling story. Some hotheads consider Merkava the most protected, most stable and most invulnerable tank. And here such an epic failure of the defensive system ... Even the ancient Arena-E is more reliable.

[Pimply]

Quote: Basarev

Even the ancient Arena-E is more reliable.

For the sake of interest - on the basis of what do you draw this conclusion? Do you have statistics? Arena serial? What kind of heads consider Merkava the most-most? Specify.

[POCC]

peas seasoned

[Arts]

What does it mean? That the system detected the target, but the ammunition did not work?, Or the technology allows ("however, an explosive was released") - "will be facilitated by the explosive" - ​​in some particularly suspicious situations.

[honest jew]

And what's so special? Or doesn’t this happen in Russia? There recently in Russia in the sergeant's teachings crushed death by a tree !!! So now to make a sensation from this ???

[Ezhaak]

Quote: Honest Jew

sergeant crushed to death by a tree !!!

Do not confuse non-compliance with a software error.

[Kars]

The most important thing is that KAZ is already used in combat units in Tsakhal. Where's the Arena? Our Barrier is only dragged through exhibitions.

[svp67]

Quote: Kars

The most important thing is that KAZ is already used in combat units in Tsakhal. Where's the Arena? Our Barrier is only dragged through exhibitions.

And glory to GOD, otherwise they would be examining the topic "How the Arena" hunted "the APC" ...

[Kars]

Quote: svp67

but now they would be analyzing the topic "How the Arena" hunted "the APC"

Well, I don’t know, I don’t know. Arena is not a pretty thing. It is quite possible that there would have been more than one person saved in Chechnya, and now the Arena removed from service would be replaced by the new KAZ system in the Russian army and fought in Syria.

And what to disassemble is not difficult to find.

[31231]

Bggg. A drunken sergeant was caught on a beh by the entire tank regiment ?!

[svp67]

Quote: Kars

And what to disassemble is not difficult to find.

And not figs on the road TANK stand ...
What only happens in life

[svp67]

What only happens in life

[svp67]

And so IT IS SCARY

[catapractic]

did not learn traffic

[a52333]

From not about that you grieve! Run a little note into the wailing wall push "for the health" of the United States. Remain without an "umbrella", what will you do?

[Tourist Breakfast]

From not about that you grieve! Run a little note into the wailing wall push "for the health" of the United States. Remain without an "umbrella", what will you do?

Same as what we did in the 48th.

[a52333]

Anxious? The question will be about the denuclearization of BV.

[Pimply]

Quote: Tourist's Breakfast

Same as what we did in the 48th.

Speyshelle for xnumx)

[il grand casino]

Quote: Pimply

Quote: Tourist's Breakfast

Same as what we did in the 48th.

Speyshelle for xnumx)

Thanks for the rzhach)))
The mood at least rose. And then after all morning dejectedly I cleaned the sewers in the house ... somehow it wasn’t very much)))

[Pimply]

Quote: il grand casino

Thanks for the rzhach)))
The mood at least rose. And then after all morning dejectedly I cleaned the sewers in the house ... somehow it wasn’t very much)))

This is a movie, taken apart for quotes. There is an interlinear translation in Russian. "The Halfon height is not responding." The level of wonder is roughly comparable to DMB.

[il grand casino]

Thank! I will definitely see)))

[Pimply]

Among army comedies in Israel, in terms of the degree of distraction for quotations, we can only compare with the fourth "Hot Chewing Gum"

[il grand casino]

I’m not familiar with the Israeli cinema photographer. Tonight I'll see whatsoever. If you know something worthwhile (preferably with subtitles or translation), throw in a personal)))

[Pimply]

He threw it off, mainly on a military topic.

[Tourist Breakfast]

Speyshelle for xnumx)

Well so, and what I mean! Classic!

[Pimply]

I can’t find with the Russian subs "Soldier, are you sleeping?" 8)

[dimon-media]

Quote: Pimply

Speyshelle for xnumx)

Thank you for the video almost laughed to tears

[Pimply]

Quote: dimon-media

Thanks for the video, I almost laughed to tears

The whole film is a great sitcom with the army in the background. Classics, roughly like "Ivan Vasilievich" in Russia.

http://rutracker.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570892

[juneart]

In the last phrase of the commander, the word mess is in Hebrew and sounds like - BADAK)))

[Pimply]

You would know what curses in Russian little Israeli children know 8))

[31231]

You will not believe in border China they swear at them with might and main.
The power of words, mother itch.

[svp67]

Quote: Pimply

Speyshelle for xnumx)

Class And BADAK sounds the same in all languages ​​...

[Pimply]

In Hebrew, modern Russian is not uncommon. The first wave of returnees was still from Tsarist Russia.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Tourist's Breakfast

Same as what we did in the 48th.

At 48, England and the USA threw money and weapons at you like candy wrappers. During this time, you have made so many friends among your neighbors that without an umbrella, you really can not last long. Neither your vaunted aces, nor merkava will help 4.

[Professor]

Quote: Ingvar 72

At 48, England and the USA threw money and weapons at you like candy wrappers.

That damn connoisseurs of history. There is nothing to cover. Keep it up.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: professor

That damn connoisseurs of history. fool Cover nothing. Keep it up. good

Hello to you, too. Shalom, sorry.

[Black Colonel]

And sometimes they say hello to us (for fun)
- Sholem spent the night!
-To the truth, Akbar!

[Botanologist]

Quote: professor

Damn history connoisseurs

Hands are shaking, here are the numbers and beguiled . But after all littered with money, admit .

[Pimply]

Quote: Ingvar 72

At 48, England and the USA threw money and weapons at you like candy wrappers. During this time, you have made so many friends among your neighbors that without an umbrella, you really can not last long. Neither your vaunted aces nor merkava will help 4

Are you laughing? England officially supported the Arab countries (the Arab legion with British officers did not hear)? Or about Egypt, where the British were like mud. And the States generally imposed an arms embargo on Israel. Learn history, you are our illiterate.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Pimply

And the States generally imposed an arms embargo on Israel

And the United States also does not officially support terrorists and condemns ... And read about the British help yourself, the UN is resting in Kosovo.

[Pimply]

Quote: Ingvar 72

And the United States also does not officially support terrorists and condemns ... And read about the British help yourself, the UN is resting in Kosovo.

Once again - learn the story, in particular - about the conflict of Truman with the State Department.

The fact that history does not fit into the framework that you have laid for it does not mean that history is wrong. It only speaks of your ignorance of her and certain views, under which you are ready to adjust everything, and what you do not like is to throw out.

[Tourist Breakfast]

Learn history, you are our illiterate.

Who remembers? That was 30 years ago!

[Pimply]

Yes Yes Yes 8)

[leon-iv]

Moreover, the USSR greatly supported Israel. And Stalin led a very coherent policy. Moreover, it was not good to be friends with Arabs, for example, many immigrants from Germany settled there. And in the same Syria, the secret police were created by former workers of Abwehr and the Gestapo (Here I could be wrong if correct then.)
And another twist of fate, the first Israeli Air Force aircraft were PV 190

[Pimply]

Quote: leon-iv

And another twist of fate, the first Israeli Air Force aircraft were PV 190

Not quite right. Avia S-199 - post-war Czechoslovak copy of Messer.

However, Stalin quite abruptly broke with Israel.

And before that - it was like that. May Day in Israel

[ruslan207]

Pupyrych — these planes had an Avia S-199 propeller from the bomber and not their own, and yet the Czechs sent weapons to Israel on the orders of Stalin so that the Soviet Union did not shine

[Pimply]

Quote: ruslan207

Pupyrych — these planes had an Avia S-199 propeller from the bomber and not their own, and yet the Czechs sent weapons to Israel on the orders of Stalin so that the Soviet Union did not shine

Both are true. And the problems with the screws resulted in the loss of a couple of aircraft due to failures in the gun desynchronizers.

[ruslan207]

And in general, in the early years of independence, the Israeli air force did not differ much from rabble

[BBM]

Quote: ruslan207

Czechs sent weapons to Israel on the orders of Stalin so that the Soviet Union does not shine

and when I say that .uka Dzhugashvili was the main Zionist they don’t believe me ...

[Alex 241]

03 / 1362820091_0509254.jpg [/ img] [/ center] I don’t remember in which magazine I came across an ad in the Czech Republic that sold a messer.

[Pimply]

There is a good article in Waronline on this subject.

http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/avia.html

[Mikhail3]

In what sense did you support? Stalin created it, and alone. In an atmosphere of complete misunderstanding and sabotage (they were afraid to openly do harm, the Red Army ...) of the Western powers, the hopes of the Arabs for earnings (they didn’t care about statehood, they understood it now - you can pump a lot more money out of statehood than out of robbery) and complete disbelief in success with the Jews. Then I had to dazzle the whole "doctors' case" so that we could go there at last.
In the 48, Westerners of Israel were showered only with dust, but they did not have it yet. This is only later, when the Jews betrayed Stalin - and then a golden rain with large diamonds came down on them ...

[Pimply]

Quote: Mikhail3

In what sense did you support? Stalin created it, and alone. In an atmosphere of complete misunderstanding and sabotage (they were afraid to openly do harm, the Red Army ...) of the Western powers, the hopes of the Arabs for earnings (they didn’t care about statehood, they understood it now - you can pump a lot more money out of statehood than out of robbery) and complete disbelief in success with the Jews. Then I had to dazzle the whole "doctors' case" so that we could go there at last.
In the 48, Westerners of Israel were showered only with dust, but they did not have it yet. This is only later, when the Jews betrayed Stalin - and then a golden rain with large diamonds came down on them ...

You are joking? Modern Israel was created within half a century, gradually forming into an independent state with its own scientific and economic base. Stalin's participation was fairly indirect and short-term, if you are not in the know. And voting at the UN General Assembly does not mean that the state has been created.

The first signs of sovereignty are the ability to create independent structures necessary for the functioning of the state.

An independent production of weapons was established in Israel, and an alternative to Czech messers was found in Mexico - 25 aircraft were ready to ship there.

[Ruslan_F38]

Quote: Tourist's Breakfast

Same as what we did in the 48th.

Kill innocent people, occupy new territories and continue the genocide of the Palestinian people? Some kind of grim prospect. Maybe it's better to go home to your native states?

[Tourist Breakfast]

Kill innocent people, occupy new territories and continue the genocide of the Palestinian people? Some kind of grim prospect. Maybe it's better to go home to your native states?

I’ll catch a barbecue in an Arabian restaurant at lunchtime. At the same time I will tell them about the genocide of the Palestinian people.

[Ruslan_F38]

Quote: Tourist Breakfast

Kill innocent people, occupy new territories and continue the genocide of the Palestinian people? Some kind of grim prospect. Maybe it's better to go home to your native states?

I’ll catch a barbecue in an Arabian restaurant at lunchtime. At the same time I will tell them about the genocide of the Palestinian people.

Go, go, don't choke, only "friend" of the Palestinians

[Tourist Breakfast]

Go, go, don't choke, only "friend" of the Palestinians

You have to be kinder, and people will reach for you.

[Ruslan_F38]

Quote: Tourist's Breakfast

You have to be kinder, and people will reach for you.

Are you even much kinder then ?!

[Pimply]

Quote: Ruslan_F38

Go, go, don't choke, only "friend" of the Palestinians

And the only thing you can do is to try to insult and ineptly troll?

[Ruslan_F38]

Quote: Pimply

Quote: Ruslan_F38

Go, go, don't choke, only "friend" of the Palestinians

And the only thing you can do is to try to insult and ineptly troll?

Well, do not mislead the public, otherwise they will believe if you don’t stand your feet or what? It happens, do not be discouraged, everything will work out!

[Pimply]

Quote: Ruslan_F38

Well, do not mislead the public, otherwise they will believe if you don’t stand your feet or what? It happens, do not be discouraged, everything will work out!

Inept trolling inept and remains 8)

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Tourist's Breakfast

. At the same time I will tell them about the genocide of the Palestinian people.

Yes, you are a cynic, my friend.

[Tourist Breakfast]

Yes, you are a cynic, my friend.

Aha, I will chew my shish kebab in a cynical manner in front of the proud son of the Palestinian people, who will wish me "bon appetite", clenching his fists in his pockets.

[Ruslan_F38]

Quote: Tourist's Breakfast

Aha, I will chew my shish kebab in a cynical manner in front of the proud son of the Palestinian people, who will wish me "bon appetite", clenching his fists in his pockets.

And you are offering me to be kinder, "kind" are you ours? Indeed cynicism.

[Tourist Breakfast]

And you are offering me to be kinder, "kind" are you ours? Indeed cynicism.

It is necessary to match the image, so carefully driven into your head.

[Ruslan_F38]

Quote: Tourist's Breakfast

It is necessary to match the image, so carefully driven into your head.

You exaggerate your significance for my head

[Dober]

Quote: Tourist's Breakfast

I will chomp shish kebab in a cynical manner in the face of the proud son of the Palestinian people, who will wish me "bon appetit", clenching his fists in his pockets.

But it will be so! Well, maybe before that he will tell you that "this schashlik samiy-samiy kosherny ... There is a tied rabbi in the next room with his fingers cut off and checked and confirmed" ...

[svp67]

Quote: Tourist's Breakfast

clenching his fists in his pockets.

This is not the worst thing, otherwise they can add a laxative to tea in order to realize "MORE and HIGHER ..."

[Tourist Breakfast]

This is not the worst thing, otherwise they can add a laxative to tea in order to realize "MORE and HIGHER ..."

Will not add. Who then will eat from him? In fact, both of us understand that politics is politics, but we need to feed our families and raise our children. And the country we have with him at the moment is one for two, and we have nowhere to go from each other. Our money is in the same bank, the officials above us are the same, and we are being treated by the same doctors, etc., etc. So we have to somehow coexist.

[Pimply]

Quote: Ruslan_F38

Kill innocent people, occupy new territories and continue the genocide of the Palestinian people? Some kind of grim prospect. Maybe it's better to go home to your native states?

I recommend reading the story.

[Ruslan_F38]

Quote: Pimply

I recommend reading the story.

Sign.

[Pimply]

Quote: Ruslan_F38

Sign.

Are you kidding me? 8) I laughed heartily

[Ruslan_F38]

Quote: Pimply

Quote: Ruslan_F38

Sign.

Are you kidding me? 8) I laughed heartily

Well, of course I'm joking, otherwise you already got it with your acid face
Well, you sat down to insist - what story should I read?

[Pimply]

Quote: Ruslan_F38

Well, you sat down to insist - what story should I read?

Do you know anyone? ;)

[Ruslan_F38]

Quote: Pimply

Quote: Ruslan_F38

Well, you sat down to insist - what story should I read?

Do you know anyone? ;)

And you?)) . I repeat the question - what story should I read?

[Pimply]

Quote: Ruslan_F38

And you?)) Do not pull the cat by the eggs. I repeat the question - what story should I read?

To start - start with the oldest. However, judging by your statements, any will work for you - you, in principle, do not know her.

[Ruslan_F38]

Quote: Pimply

To start - start with the oldest. However, judging by your statements, any will work for you - you, in principle, do not know her.

So I thought, when there is nothing, and most importantly, there is nothing to object to, the "hanging" of labels begins. There is no need to leave the topic, but forgot to sit down, then I remind you:

Quote: Ruslan_F38

Kill innocent people, occupy new territories and continue the genocide of the Palestinian people? Some kind of grim prospect. Maybe it's better to go home to your native states?

Quote: Pimpled: I recommend that you familiarize yourself with the story.

[Pimply]

Quote: Ruslan_F38

So I thought, when there is nothing, and most importantly, there is nothing to object to, the "hanging" of labels begins. There is no need to leave the topic, but forgot to sit down, then I remind you:

Well, what do you know, dear? Judging by the comments, you are unfamiliar with the history of the Middle East. You are rather poorly oriented in Russian history, regular schools in modern history. What story do you offer?

You only know how to angrily snarl at the world but to clumsy trolls.

[Ruslan_F38]

Quote: Pimply

You only know how to angrily snarl at the world but to clumsy trolls.

Weakly pimply, weakly - cultivate for now, learn history.

[Pimply]

Quote: Ruslan_F38

Weakly pimply, weakly - cultivate for now, learn history.

And once again - an inept attempt. If you're trying, read the classics first. At least the same Chapek "12 Methods of Literary Polemics".

[Ruslan_F38]

Quote: Pimply

Quote: Ruslan_F38

Weakly pimply, weakly - cultivate for now, learn history.

And once again - an inept attempt. If you're trying, read the classics first. At least the same Chapek "12 Methods of Literary Polemics".

You will not believe - I read it. Although who am I telling this - a character who believes in the exclusivity of everything Israeli - tanks, nation, "values". Just be careful, otherwise your and your fellow tribesmen's arrogance, belief in your own uniqueness can lead you far. I've already started some with blue blood ...

[Pimply]

Quote: Ruslan_F38

the exclusivity of everything Israeli - tanks, nation, "values".

Please quote.

[Hug]

Well, you think too well of him - he has never heard of an author with that last name. Don't you understand WHO this Ruslan_F38 is another "Russian patriot" with a primitive psyche.

[Ruslan_F38]

Quote: Kram

Well, you think too well of him - he has never heard of an author with that last name. Don't you understand WHO this Ruslan_F38 is another "Russian patriot" with a primitive psyche.

Bravo! Where are we to your blue blood! Special thanks for the Russian patriot!
Karl Czapek read "The War with the Salamanders" twenty years ago. "Twelve Techniques of Literary Polemics or A Guide to Newspaper Discussions" - I read it recently, the article was here on VO, but I don't use such techniques, for me the main thing is not victory, but truth, truth and justice! But you are apparently above these values.

[Hug]

For Ruslan_F38

I answer, unfortunately, to you with a delay - there is no time, do you know whether to hang up like you on this site, because I work a lot.
No, my blood is the same color as yours - red, and neither I, nor, as you say, other people from those present here have ever talked about the superiority of the Jews.
But it's not that.
You assure me that you are a patriot of Russia. For me you are not a patriot of Russia, but a “Russian patriot”. Notice, I wrote it in quotation marks? Well, what kind of patriot are you? After all, as one of the site’s visitors, very respected by me, said here: “Patriotism is not an irrational faith, it is a conscious love for your country, but it also obliges you to make it better.” Patriot is the opposite of a nationalist.

Who takes on the function of being the main patriot ?! Who appointed himself to this position ?! - Really, those most moral and main moralists, about whom Dr. Samuel Johnson said: “Patriotism is the last refuge of a villain”, that patriotism, which so many, at all times and in all countries, have made cover for personal vile goals and small selfish interests. Throughout the history of civilization, many patriotic paradigms have been developed. For example, in Nazi Germany, patriotism was built on the theory of racial superiority. Maybe you are one of them? After all, people like you deny the truth about the Holocaust, consider themselves patriots only because they hate the Jews and Israel - this has always been an integral feature of “real” patriots.
You know, a lot has already been said about this without me. For example, read the literary correspondence in the poems of Markov and Yevtushenko, the poems of V. Vysotsky, and the writer John R. Tolkien does not consider the evidence of the absence of Jewish blood in the veins as a patent for nobility.
Read the statements of famous and respected politicians around the world: Czech leader Tomas Masaryk said that "the attitude of a nation towards Jews is a measure of its cultural maturation."


The decision to exterminate all Jews marked the murder of conscience. Indeed, in his conversation with Rauschning, Hitler bluntly stated that "conscience is an invention of the Jews." Therefore, anti-Semitism is a denial of conscience, a struggle against the laws of morality. Speaking in the language of religious concepts, its essence is in the struggle against God himself.
As I understand it, you also dream of the destruction of Israel and the Jews. Well then, this is to Freud. As he said
“A dream is stronger than the reason of reason”
And do not forget that Albert Einstein, also a Jew by the way, said wonderful words: a person’s ethical behavior should be based on sympathy, education and public relations. No religious basis is required for this.

But, if patriotism is a virtue, and you and I are both sure of this, then in the spirit of the Christian commandment: the virtue, which is spoken out loud, ceases to be it.
You, as I understand it, an Orthodox Christian?

And one more thing: I did not want to get involved in this polemic, because a military-technical site and, accordingly, other questions should be discussed on it, but I could not fail to answer you and those like you. I will refrain from now on, no matter what abomination and accusations I would have to read here. There is simply no point in persuading the "true patriots" of anything.

[Dober]

Quote: Pimply

Well, what do you know, dear?

Began...
Better about tanks. About history, it never happens. in the sense that the need for its study is justified on:
1. The concept of the causes of a particular case.
2. Desire to draw conclusions.
And the ability to keep tons of numbers in your head has little to do with history.
There are several illustrative examples in this case. For Jews, this is one of the questions. "Was there a HOLOCAUST?" Here all the beloved "scholarship" breaks down on simple facts, confirmed by other Jews who (perhaps) did not know history AT ALL, but who know how to ANALYZE.
But these are not such old events. Unlike "biblical" ...

You only know how to angrily snarl at the world but to clumsy trolls.

Again - "Yaa, Yaa - the head from the Poplar"
Vi still sho - FOSHCHIST ??? In the sense of "Ja, ja, natürlich ..."
Well, in professional trolling, there is NO equal to "pimply". In almost every discussion - an unrecognized leader in the number of "comments" with an appeal to all at once. Fuck with your obsession ...

[Pimply]

Quote: Dober

Better about tanks.

I am only for, if you pay attention. Look, he even threw a topic below: the use of springs instead of torsion bars on Merkava.

[Ruslan_F38]

Quote: Dober

Better about tanks.

Welcome But the same does not work with tanks - because the Merkava is the best in the world, however, like all Israel.

[Pimply]

There is no best in the world, dear. What is repeatedly discussed here.
If you pay attention, you and everyone who is trying to somehow criticize Merkava, and not your opponents, are talking about the best in the world. It’s just that the majority of your opponents were dealing with real military equipment, and you, it seems, haven’t.

[Ruslan_F38]

Quote: Pimply

It’s just that the majority of your opponents were dealing with real military equipment, and you, it seems, haven’t.

As always, you were mistaken - of course. You would not make yourself a guru - you get lousy
And the T-72 is in any case the best tank in the world!

[Pimply]

Quote: Ruslan_F38

As always, you were mistaken - of course. You would not make yourself a guru - you get lousy

I do not build. Only rarely do people dealing with military equipment carry such nonsense as you.

[Ruslan_F38]

Quote: Pimply

I do not build. Only rarely do people dealing with military equipment carry such nonsense as you.

You did not consider how many people you here on a forum declared that they carry nonsense? Look at your comments and think if there is anything. You are too high of opinion about yourself and your intellectual abilities dear. Maybe it's you nonsense?

[Pimply]

Quote: Ruslan_F38

You did not consider how many people you here on a forum declared that they carry nonsense? Look at your comments and think if there is anything. You are too high of opinion about yourself and your intellectual abilities dear. Maybe it's you nonsense?

No. did not consider. If there are a lot of stupid opinions, do you propose to consider them smart?

There is no better tank. As there is no better machine, for example.

[Dober]

Quote: Ruslan_F38

Maybe it's you nonsense?

On all topics unrelated to Israel, and especially with Israeli military equipment -Yes!
More precisely, often that same Achinea is not just "carried", but has already been brought on "Kamaz", "Iveco", "Caterpillar".
So much that you can't make out. So it won't take long to "hang up" the server ...

[Ruslan_F38]

Quote: Dober

So much that you can't make out. So it won't take long to "hang up" the server ...

Probably, as far as Israel is concerned, he is an expert (although we, as they say in the course - "my mother wrote", perhaps he is quite "savvy" in other matters (apparently, he understands the trucks on which he brings his miraculous thoughts), but this is clearly not enough to accuse people of stupidity and behave in such an arrogant way.As for his beloved tank, he is certainly good, but our T-72, "a product of the last century," as he disparagingly puts it, is able to withstand the merkabah, and that's not my opinion, but the opinion of experts!

[shasherin_pavel]

I am 54 years old and since school I cannot figure out where our history is and where is "political fiction", we have at least 10 Stalins, 8 Trotskys, 4 Ivan the Terrible and 2 Zhukovs - one evil genius, another favorite of the people, the third psycho-schizophrenic who united Russia, etc. "If you throw out all the lodges from history, this does not mean at all that only truth will remain, there may be nothing left at all"

[Santa Fe]

Run a little note into the wailing wall push "for the health" of the United States. Remain without an "umbrella", what will you do?

Quote: Tourist's Breakfast

Same as what we did in the 48th.

or in 1967

On June 8, 1967, in the midst of the Six Day War, Israeli warplanes and ships attacked the US Navy reconnaissance vessel Lmberti with 292 sailors on board, killing 34 and injuring 171 crew members.

USS Liberty (AGTR-5) after shelling

[Pimply]

Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN

or in 1967

A muddy story, in fact. I think there really could be a mistake. T.N. "friendly fire" is all too common in war.

[shasherin_pavel]

Actually, it is necessary to write a ship of the "Liberty" type, which means "freedom", this is a huge series of ships put on an assembly line in the USA, they were designed for one successful voyage across the ocean, and then all the costs of building the ship were justified, but the ships were so successful, even with minimal construction costs, that many have served for decades. And on the nose you can see the GTR-5.

[Revolver]

You try to make it out from a height and at jet speed, well, even if subsonic.

[Pimply]

The US "umbrella" appeared in 1969, after three wars in which Israel won. And then, he was revealed only after winning two more wars. The United States will leave, believe me - someone else from the big five will immediately appear - if only because cooperation with Israel is an extremely profitable business: it is technology, influence, and a serious lever of influence in the Middle East. By funding, for example, LCD, the States gained access to unique radar technologies. which is installed on this system. So don't think that an umbrella is for Israel
1) free
2) required

[0255]

Quote: a52333

From not about that you grieve! Run a little note into the wailing wall push "for the health" of the United States. Remain without an "umbrella", what will you do?

but do not worry, there are opinions that Israel has 10 years left to live, after 10 years the “chosen ones” will be taken to the USA by all sorts of Rothschild Rockefellers. Israel becomes unnecessary for the United States.

[Pimply]

Quote: 0255

but do not worry, there are opinions that Israel has 10 years left to live, after 10 years the “chosen ones” will be taken to the USA by all sorts of Rothschild Rockefellers. Israel becomes unnecessary for the United States.

And this "opinion" has been around since the 40s 8)

[shasherin_pavel]

And Russia needs the United States, will we write it off then too? The USA did not need "twins" and they were used, as in his time Hitler and the Reichstag. You never know who the United States is not needed in this world!

[atalef]

Quote: 0255

10 years at most, in 10 years the "chosen ones" will be taken to the USA by all sorts of Rothschild Rockefellers. Israel becomes unnecessary for the United States.

May I go to the Rothschilds! Rockefellers are not Jews.

[kavkaz8888]

Honest Jew.
But we do not say that our trees are the most wooden in the world. And about merkava, only that is heard.

[afire]

I even know who put the first minus)))
I will not point a finger at an honest Jew

[Pimply]

Quote: kavkaz8888

But we do not say that our trees are the most wooden in the world. And about merkava, only that is heard.

Are you kidding, right? For a long time, Russian technology has been "has no analogues" several times.

Find one in this article. Or in any other article written not in Russia. Does it say somewhere that the Merkava "is the best, has no analogues, etc."? Merkava is one of the best tanks in the world - yes. The only one on which KAZ stands. Indestructible? No. There are no such tanks. Impenetrable? No, there are no such tanks. No flaws? No, there are no such tanks. It's just a good and reliable car with a serial KAZ. And one of the most howling in the world at the moment.

[Altona]

Merkava is a tank created for a specific theater of war, where there are no natural shelters, where there is practically open and sweepable terrain ... Hence its design ... When fighting against a more advanced technically and tactically enemy than its opponents today, such same tin like everyone else ...

[Santa Fe]

Quote: Altona

Merkava is a tank created for a specific theater of war

This was relevant only for the first Merkava.

Two, and especially three and four, are capable of fighting in any climatic zones, like any modern MBT.
What does the best fight!
מרכבה - the most competently designed and victorious tank in the world

[Pimply]

Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN

מרכבה - the most competently designed and victorious tank in the world

Oleg wouldn’t say such a thing. Merkava has many advantages and disadvantages, many interesting and often controversial decisions. Take at least a spring suspension instead of torsion bars. So they are worth discussing. And then usually they start immediately srach: for some merkava like a red rag.

[31231]

You will find pictures where the carrot will have a bulwark on mud in the mud, as in this video ?!

[Pimply]

To begin with - Have you seen that in this video the tank is pulled out of the mud? It's all right? There is more - and not one.

[31231]

I don’t see him riding and I don’t see a screen floating in the mud. I see that before I went into the mud well. But I don’t see that the Carrot itself got out of it.

[Pimply]

Quote: 31231

I don’t see him riding and I don’t see a screen floating in the mud. I see that before I went into the mud well. But I don’t see that the Carrot itself got out of it.

But you didn’t notice in the video that the tank is not driving itself, but it is being dragged by the cable 8) Just below the photo on the screen.

You do not understand that in Israel five months of the year there are heavy tropical rains, and the mud is formed there such that the conceived Russian outback did not dream of.

And there is a photo where Merkava cuts through the mud - from the same Cast Lead, by the way. And there’s a photo where they drag her out of the mud.

[31231]

Just below the photo on the screen.

You probably either don’t want to notice or specifically take the issue aside ?!
I asked you to bring a photo or video, where the side screen floats flat in the mud. You have it hanging vertically in all the photos.
I repeat the question more accessible: show the video, where does the Carrot ride with the rollers closed almost completely?

P.S. In this photo, by the way, the lumpiness of the soil is very similar to sand and gravel. If it tells you something.

[Pimply]

Quote: 31231

I asked you to bring a photo or video, where the side screen floats flat in the mud. You have it hanging vertically in all the photos.

Does he have to swim?
Below is the video cited where with the trailer. And here is the picture.

And so.

[31231]

The bottom is nothing like that, og. This is already better.
But there is not in water, but in mud and thinner ?! Well, in motion by itself.

[Pimply]

I posted the video below.

[Consmo]

The bottom shot is indicative.
The tank is abandoned by the crew.
Devices are sheathed.
The crew left.
Shabbat.
In a word.

[svp67]

Quote: Pimply

the tank is pulled out of the mud

[31231]

And what stalled Merkava in this situation would have got out ?! Moreover, something that I’m lazy about is that 80 would stretch it.

[Pimply]

Quote: 31231

And what stalled Merkava in this situation would have got out ?! Moreover, something that I’m lazy about is that 80 would stretch it.

For starters, I don’t know, situations are different. In the situation that you pedal, I recommend that you still watch the film - they drag the T-shirt by the cable, if you have not noticed.

And then explain - why should it pull exactly 80? I don’t get it.

[31231]

In the situation that you pedal, I recommend that you still watch the film - they drag the T-shirt by the cable, if you have not noticed.
And then explain - why should it pull exactly 80? I don’t get it.

Pimpled, you keep the thread of conversation.
In the video that I posted (according to your pedals) for some reason I did not see that the tank was being dragged by a rope.
Moreover, when you laid out the Carrot pulled out by the Katovo nine in full body kit (about 48-50 tons), it immediately became clear about your impassability.
In our construction equipment more than 40 tons are rarely pulled out with bulldozers, because the second one can also land. Pull out by excavators. Why them ?! Let it be a Russian secret.

[Pimply]

Quote: 31231

In the video that I posted (according to your pedals) for some reason I did not see that the tank was being dragged by a rope.

Correctly. And they should. Because they put the engine in the tank and drove it to the place where it would be driven.

I laid out one frame for you - and with the haste of a child, you immediately put your opinion on the entire logistics of Tsahal.

Are we talking about construction? No.
We are talking about the army. In this particular case, the bulldozer, as a rule, is the regular escort of troops, and it is engaged in engineering work. And if it is possible to drag with a more powerful mechanism, then why should a less powerful one drag it.

[31231]

Correctly. And they should. Because they put the engine in the tank and drove it to the place where it would be driven.

I agree that I would write out an outfit for the toilet for the other operator who stood and blocked the passage on the right.

Are we talking about construction? No.

And what roads in our army are different than in construction ?!

In this particular case, the bulldozer, as a rule, is the regular escort of troops, and it is engaged in engineering work. And if it is possible to drag with a more powerful mechanism, then why should a less powerful one drag it.

That is, Katovskaya 9 is more powerful than Carrots ?! Well google that too.
And it’s convenient to drag with this bulldozer due to the lowered speeds and sound lugs on the goose. Because of the same lugs in soft soils, it burrows when slipping.

[Pimply]

Quote: 31231

And what roads in our army are different than in construction ?!

No, it's just a different technique.

Quote: 31231

That is, Katovskaya 9 is more powerful than Carrots ?! Well google that too.
And it’s convenient to drag with this bulldozer due to the lowered speeds and sound lugs on the goose. Because of the same lugs in soft soils, it burrows when slipping.

Well then, what's the point of this argument?
Tsahal has a fairly large fleet of engineering machines of various types.

[Pimply]

Well, in general, about that. A tank is not a miracle. This is a passable car, but you should not expect miracles from it.

Khan younis, if not mistaken.

[31231]

A good sapper under this carrot sales even creeps. Even a sapper blade does not have to row a lot.

[Pimply]

Quote: 31231

A good sapper under this carrot sales even creeps. You don’t have to row a lot even with a sapper blade

A good pilot will fly, a good milkmaid on the background of Merkava will milk cows ... What else?

[31231]

What else?

More pictures about Carrots, otherwise we don’t own your Internet segment, just like Hebrew. Thank you very much in advance.
But the debate is interesting after all. Not?!

[Pimply]

Quote: 31231

But the debate is interesting after all. Not?!

The dispute is much more interesting, especially if fairy tales are not told about what kind of dirt is in Israel, having not seen this dirt, or words that no one uttered are attributed. Nobody says - "Merkava" is the best. This is a good tank with interesting solutions. Like any tank, it's not perfect. There is a lot to discuss around him. But do not create unnecessary myths around him.

[Pimply]

At the urgent request of the moderators, I translate so that there are no questions.
The note under the photo talks about the TROL trailer, which was first adopted by the IDF and should increase the operational flexibility of tank units.

[svp67]

Quote: Pimply

For a start

[31231]

I just can’t make out, and not a tanker. The driver there through what is looking ?! Triplexes seem to be covered in mud. At Pupyrchaty in the photo, the Carrot probably stopped because of this, it was flooded with dirt.

[Pimply]

Triplex, as far as I remember carrots, is not the only system with which the driver is guided.



With 3.30

[31231]

Thanks for the educational program.

[svp67]

Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN

Two, and especially three and four, are capable of fighting in any climatic zones, like any modern MBT.

She can still do that ...

The result of a failed landing

[31231]

What do soldiers like to drink from them ?!

[Dober]

The pictures are of course good and even spectacular, but -
Nobody canceled, not even Photoshop, but just a "slight adjustment" ts.
It all depends on the shooting point and angle.
The latter is generally not the result of a "jump", but the result of bungling ... So LEAVE the dais without noticing the "ditch". Or an attempt / task to overcome anti-tank ditches.

[Santa Fe]

Quote: Dober

So LEAVE from the hill without noticing the "ditch"

Really T-72?

Aya-ya-yay

[svp67]

Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN

Aya-ya-yay

Anything can happen, and not all mechanics have "hands growing" out of the right places, here the eccentric road seemed a bit narrow ...

[Pimply]

This is not Merkava. Here BMP engineering forces Puma, based on the Centurion

[saturn.mmm]

Quote: Pimply

This is not Merkava. Here BMP engineering forces Puma, based on the Centurion

The BMP was hit and tanks then pulled up and the left was also fired. It seems like it was so if I do not confuse anything.

[Pimply]

The tanks didn’t seem to be amazed in that episode.

[saturn.mmm]

Quote: Pimply

The tanks didn’t seem to be amazed in that episode.

Yes, not surprised, I got a little confused. Senior Sergeant Philip Mosco.

[Pimply]

I am very sorry that the pictures were not preserved, as we have managed to turn the shots of the Hammers. Twice.

And at one revolution of technology, I was personally present. On a narrow rain-washed road, M113 crashed down with 14 soldiers inside. A slope of 45 degrees, if not steeper, rolled 30-40 meters. The most amazing thing is that no one was killed or even injured, everyone sat like a herring in a barrel, and the commander reacted on time and gave people a command (training for the coup was regular). But the fall from a meter and a half ended worse - one seriously wounded, two easily.

[atalef]

Quote: Pimply

I am very sorry that the pictures were not preserved, as we have managed to turn the shots of the Hammers. Twice.

At us, too, at the Elktricheskaya Company they managed to roll over on Hamer, I was already fucked up. Back in 1998, the first one was sent for protection, so they dragged him to test in the dunes near Kessaria and rolled over. Everyone was stupefied. how could. And they got out, photographed. and then pinned two years.

[Pimply]

Quote: atalef

Back in 1998, the first one was sent for protection, so they dragged him to test in the dunes near Kessaria and rolled over. Everyone was stupefied. how could. And they got out, photographed. and then pinned two years.

The same canoe. Also in the dunes. And also fotkali. Then they thundered on the retraining continuing education course. Intelligence and surveillance unit, damn it.

[31231]

Tyuyuyu. That is the ordinary for us. Now they will turn over and continue to fight. And here is the current carrot anchored into the ground at the repair plant. Although, I suspect that the Russian-speaking goys also arranged accidents on Morkovka. Goof it in our blood.

[Pimply]

Quote: 31231

Tyuyuyu. That is the ordinary for us. Now they will turn over and continue to fight. And here is the current carrot anchored into the ground at the repair plant. Although, I suspect that the Russian-speaking goys also arranged accidents on Morkovka. Goof it in our blood.

Tell me, are you tired of saying stupidities and banalities? You are talking frank nonsense.

[Pimply]

Another picture.

Translation of the text from Hebrew refers to the trailer, which was first used by the IDF and should reduce logistics costs and allow the tank to be more autonomous.

[Apollo]

Quote: Pimply

Pimpled (

Eugene!

According to innovations in the rules of VO

f) With all due respect to other languages, the language of communication in the comments to the published articles is Russian. Unfortunately, speakers of other languages ​​often use them to clarify relationships among themselves, while using obscene language. In addition, the forum assumes publicity, therefore statements written in any foreign language and incomprehensible to the vast majority of readers due to their ignorance of various foreign languages ​​will be deleted;

or you provide a translation of the text or image, or everything is deleted.

[Pimply]

Quote: Apollon

or you provide a translation of the text or image, or everything is deleted

To insanity, too, should not be brought. A picture from the video, a video with an interlocutor for the hearing impaired, a piece of a phrase. Translate too?

"it somehow combines with hard memories." Verbatim. Translate the same designations on tanks and translate the inscriptions on the walls?

[Apollo]

Quote: Pimply

To insanity, too, should not be brought. A picture from the video, a video with an interlocutor for the hearing impaired, a piece of a phrase. Translate too?

Eugene!
The requirements of the VO Rules apply to everyone. Each letter of the set of VO Rules will be executed and observed by all without exception and reasoning.

[Pimply]

Quote: Apollon

The VO Rules apply to everyone. Each letter of the VO Rules will be executed and respected by everyone without exception and reasoning.

I do not argue. Only when anti-Semites and Natsik frolic here, for some reason I notice this much less often, excuse me. Especially recently.

However, I will not argue, I did translations.

[Dober]

Quote: Apollon

You provide a translation of the text or image, or everything is deleted.

I ask you not to do this.
Here someone expressed the idea of ​​the need for the presence of such a number of Jews. They say they are here for the purpose of reconnaissance. Maybe something interesting will flash. About the technique.
Let our military men also take a look at the "enemy" equipment. Maybe that will interest you?
And the language in this case does not play a fundamental role. For example, for "Kars" or someone else

[Kars]

Quote: Apollon

Tatyam is the Russian language.

Quote: Apollon

foreign language and incomprehensible to the vast majority of readers due to their ignorance of various foreign languages, will be deleted;

)) I'm shocked)))

By the way, the picture is a setup, there, specially for shooting, the highway specially fortified for Merkav was flooded with water)))) The picture was made for distribution to forums where problems with evidence of dirt in Israel often arise

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN

Really T-72?
Aya-ya-yay

And they drink with us. But we do not hide it, we are proud of it

[svp67]

Quote: Dober

So LEAVE from the hill without noticing the "ditch"

And this WHERE LOOKED

[Dober]

What to say? Maybe on whom? Or WHAT?
But seriously ... it’s unnaturally worth it.
Friction forces, of course, are present, but the plane cannot be so. Leaning at the end of the plane and maintaining the rest of the mass of the fuselage and the rest. Let it stand, not break off the plane ...
Then, leaning on the third point in the form of the rear left wing, and "clinging" to the turf with the left landing gear, the plane would inevitably roll down to the stop against the asphalt by the end of the right rear wing, raising the left landing gear into the air. But this did not happen.
Judging by one shot is silly, but ...

[Alex 241]

...............................................

[Dober]

Thank you!
Well, after all, the back right plane of the asphalt does not apply, and the left top edge of the wall ...
And where is the center of mass?
Just have to fall in contact with either the right or left hind wings.
What isn’t Photoshop - it’s clear, but how it costs it - no ...

[Alex 241]

Most likely, they rolled out of the hangar in reverse, as a result of a tractor driver error, the right strut slid, the plane lies on the central section of the fuselage, the front, and left landing gear, touching the right asphalt console. The main load on the fuselage, since the right console is practically not deformation. Touch stabilizers no, which is clearly visible in the photo.

[Dober]

What exactly rolled down and not "landed" was clear right away - there were no deformations. But that the front pillar is partly (if not all) of the vehicle. "removes the load" from the right wing (in other words, hangs on it), it became clear.
But still, the whole plane is unstable - it balances. I am sure.
There is no way without a crane, otherwise, with a light movement, a displacement will occur, and as a result "additional costs for repairs".
And what kind of case, how did it end?

[Alex 241]

Min.10 I searched on the Internet, information 0, judging by the flight number, the plane of the European airline.

[Dober]

Okay, we’ll survive it too ...
And thanks for that!
He flew a lot, but more and more on the sides of large companies.
It is read in the inscription Nord ..... ist Airlines. Colors, of course, do not say anything, but I would have thought that the Swiss. Or maybe the Angles (not Britons).
Yes, jester with them, messy ...

[Alex 241]

All the best, we would have their problems, by the way, I’ve been misled, I’ve considered the first letter of the number N and not I, as it seemed, so the plane is American.

[Alex 241]

........................................

[Alex 241]

Sorry for the translation:
Airline: Northwest Airlink (Mesaba Airlines
Aircraft: Saab 340B
Location: Memphis International Airport - KMEM
Country: USA - Tennessee
Registration: N366PX CN: 340B-267
Photo Date: August 22, 2000

No wedges. No brakes not installed. A lot of explanation to do! The crew of the last flight of the day could not provide aircraft parking brakes, and sometime during the night, the aircraft rolled into culverts, resulting in substantial damage

[Dober]

Thanks for the work! I understand in English, but I do not understand a fucker why they trench this (trench stochnach ditch) between the hangars. For the thrill of taxiing experience?
The photo is dated 2000, maybe now they fell asleep. I'll look through google map ...

[Pimply]

Quote: Altona

Merkava is a tank created for a specific theater of warfare, where there are no natural shelters, where there is practically open and sweepable terrain ... Hence its design ... When fighting against a more advanced technically and tactically enemy than its current opponents, such same tin like everyone else

Go to Israel one day. Take a walk in the Golan. I recommend a ride around the country in principle. You can understand how much one TVD, literally a couple of kilometers from another, can differ. Yes, and I also recommend a trip in June and December.

After that we will talk about the theater of operations.

[Santa Fe]

Quote: Pimply

After that we will talk about the theater of operations.

This does not exclude the possibility that the first Merkava was originally created under the conditions of the Arab-Israeli wars, the norms and traditions of the IDF (the life of people above all else), and the possibilities of Israeli industry. A very specific tank with low firepower and poor security (only at the cost of its own engine). Plus huge dimensions (tank-house for roadblocks) and frankly speaking horseradish mobility

"twos" were much more versatile and perfect

modern Mk.3 and Mk.4 can challenge any tank in the world and get out of the battle as a winner.

[Pimply]

Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN

This does not exclude the possibility that the first Merkava was originally created under the conditions of the Arab-Israeli wars, the norms and traditions of the IDF (the life of people above all else), and the possibilities of Israeli industry. A very specific tank with low firepower and poor security (only at the cost of its own engine). Plus huge dimensions (tank-house for roadblocks) and frankly speaking horseradish mobility

The first carrot was sharpened under the war in the Golan and Sinai - that is, taking into account these features. For that time, the gun that she had was not bad at all. Morkova 2, by the way, preserved it. They switched to 120 mm only on the three.

As for the pillbox - this is already for Morkovka 4. The 1st one favorably differed in frontal projection from the same "centurions".

And with armor, everything is not so simple.

Although yes, the First Lebanese has shown that it is necessary to modify the machine.

[Altona]

Go to Israel one day. Take a walk in the Golan. I recommend a ride around the country in principle. You can understand how much one TVD, literally a couple of kilometers from another, can differ. Yes, and I also recommend a trip in June and December.
--------------------------------
If you agree to pay me this voyage, then I will be so, kindly agree ... But seriously, the initial concept and technical specifications do not interfere with further development of the equipment, under other conditions ... The protection of the crew does not interfere in any way with finalizing the suspension , tracks, filters ... Or Merkava was originally a design of rigidly closed architecture? )))

[Pimply]

Quote: Altona

Protection of the crew does not in any way interfere with the refinement of the suspension, tracks, filters ... Or Merkava was originally a design of rigidly closed architecture? )))

No. Naturally, first of all, it is done with an eye to local conditions. Another thing is that local conditions are somewhat different from how they are presented, for example, in Russia. Dry rivers in summer, but stormy streams in winter. A sharp change in climatic zones. Not as many plains as it seems - in the North there are more hills and mountains. Impenetrable dirt in the fall in a number of areas. Well, etc.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Honest Jew

So now to make a sensation from this ???

The sensation is already that the Jews burst out and admitted it

[Altona]

So plant the entire Sinai with trees ... Maybe the enemy soldiers will transmit them?))

[Pimply]

Quote: Altona

So plant the entire Sinai with trees ... Maybe the enemy soldiers will transmit them?))

Most likely, if Sinai remained under the Israeli protectorate, it would be so. But alas, ah - he is under Egypt, and now terrorists are making noise there instead of trees.

[Rustam]

honest jew
And what's so special? Or doesn’t this happen in Russia?

Gentlemen, why did I solder the person -27 to something neopoyma because I didn’t see my face or what?

I am amazed by some figures who did not understand without reading (and so on in all respects) - we put a minus and a basta, but sadly of course

[Jogan-xnumx]

And let me curiosity, Your Nick, is this a tribute to yourself or, sorry, a new joke? This is me about honesty. Well, also about the comparability of the active protection of some tanks with a log by you ...

[31231]

Well, if he used an ax to kill himself, then it’s a sensation.

[shasherin_pavel]

In Russia, a sergeant could only be crushed with a tree, since there are a lot of oaks in Russia, and there are few computers in the army, and therefore they are much less buggy, because the probability of getting hit by a glitch of 4 computers is much less than under a tree in the taiga. Only anyone who decides to conquer us has to think that we have trees on the defensive, well, once a glitch happened near a tree - it crushed its own, and the "Merkava" is mistaken.

[lewerlin53rus]

Quote: shasherin_pavel

In Russia, a sergeant could be crushed only by a tree, since in Russia there are a lot of oaks, and there are few computers in the army

The lack of brains and gross violation of safety rules does not compensate for the presence of any quantity of the coolest hardware and computer equipment. I often work in the forest and I know what a felling of the forest is, where I gape a little, and I can instantly stick my head in boots with a falling tree. And there are enough other dangers.

[svp67]

Quote: Honest Jew

There recently in Russia in the sergeant's teachings crushed death by a tree !!! So now to make a sensation from this ???

And no one does not. Just the public is SURPRISED ...

[waisson]

merkava sees rockets transported right in the armored personnel carrier

[Ruslan_F38]

Yeah, the system is super

as a result of a malfunction, the "Windbreaker" of one of the tanks went off, mistaking the Namer armored personnel carrier for an enemy missile

if she already confused an armored personnel carrier with a missile ...

[Ezhaak]

Quote: Ruslan_F38

super system

And made by super experts. Although, there are always overlays. And these super-specialists are not immune from mistakes. But how much screeching was when they first showed a system similar to the Russian one.

[Pimply]

The system is super. Until now, she shot down several ATGMs, which, most likely, saved the lives of tank crews. Or do you want to say that nowhere and never are there technical failures?

[DEfindER]

Quote: Pimply

The system is super. Until now, she shot down several ATGMs, which, most likely, saved the lives of tank crews.

One can only envy efficiency. When will we test our Arena in battle? In Syria, tankers die every day, how many lives could they save ...

[0255]

Quote: DEfindER

One can only envy efficiency. When will we test our Arena in battle? In Syria, tankers die every day, how many lives could they save ...

I hope it will be delivered to the Syrians along with the MiG-35, Yak-130 and S-300. I would like to hope for the best

[Ascetic]

Quote: DEfindER

One can only envy efficiency. When will we test our Arena in battle? In Syria, tankers die every day, how many lives could they save ...

Rosoboronexport back in 2012. signed a contract with the countries that have the T-72 in service for the modernization of 200 tanks (which countries were not specified). All of them are equipped with KAZ Arena-e. And already this year in September at an exhibition in Nizhny Tagil, the tank was presented to the public. The main buyer of the T-72 tank with the "Arena-e" complex is considered to be countries that already have T-72 and T-90 tanks in service.

By the way, the complex wanted to buy the Americans

General Dynamics, an American company, proposed signing a purchase contract for four years for up to two thousand active protection systems for the Arena tanks developed by KBM. However, the contract did not receive the approval of the Russian side.

I also heard that Indians on their MBT T-90S consider Arena-E as the most preferred option
Why is the complex already tested and ready for mass production not a mystery to the troops? Maybe it doesn’t work against the RPG-30 tandem ammunition?

[Black Colonel]

Maybe it does not work against the RPG-30 tandem ammunition?
and what does the tandem ammunition have to do with it? Well, one rocket delivers it to the target (tank), and KAZ hits this rocket.

[Ezhaak]

Quote: Black Colonel

One rocket delivers it to the target

Wrong.
The RPG-30 is made up of 2 rounds. The first is a dummy that distracts the protection system on itself, and while the system is recharging, the main charge of the RPG comes on board. Ascetic is right!

[Pimply]

Quote: Ascetic

Why is the complex already tested and ready for mass production not a mystery to the troops? Maybe it doesn’t work against the RPG-30 tandem ammunition?

It may well be waiting for other developments. Under Armata, as I recall, something else was being developed.

[leon-iv]

KAZ AFganit

[Pimply]

Quote: leon-iv

KAZ AFganit

Yes, but so far there is zero information on it.

[leon-iv]

Yes, but so far there is zero information on it.

Duc will not be there for a long time. So 30 years)))) and so only pictures.

[Ascetic]

Quote: Pimply

It may well be waiting for other developments. Under Armata, as I recall, something else was being developed.

The video clearly shows how it works, unlike the Trophy, in which the kinetic method of hitting a metal ball, here, in fact, with a directed explosion it seems at first glance that the tandem charge is not afraid of it. Both will blow it. But the Trophy against the RPG-30 is a question ... But the Trophy is hidden inside and the Arena. More precisely, its layout looks vulnerable compared to the Trophy. The overall antenna at the top, which is vulnerable to light small arms, plus this rather powerful all-seeing eye of the explosion, can hit its infantry, at least judging by the frames, the probability of such an outcome is quite high. If the antenna was upgraded instead of a single block as in the picture, several radars as well as ammunition instead of one container in several, the method of detonation remained the same, and the likelihood of damage to outdoor antennas still remains, although it has decreased significantly. Perhaps that is why they are waiting for the notorious Afghanit who must eliminate these shortcomings


Now R&D work is underway for KAZ "Mozyr" (for silos) or rather it will be a completely new one missile defense systemIts principle is approximately the same as that of the Arena. A directed stream of fragments is created, which, even when flying at low speed, "cut" the target (due to the high speed of the target itself). The main thing is to work out the algorithm of convergence of striking elements with the object, taking into account the convergence speed of 3– 4 Mach. And also targeting VT bombs and missiles at maneuvering targets. In essence, a medieval canister, but high-tech, equipped with an electronic system for target detection, guidance and volley.

[Ascetic]

Quote from the book of memoirs of the developer KAZ Arena, general designer of missile systems of the Ground Forces Sergei Pavlovich Invincible "Weapon of two eras"

The intercontinental missile warhead was rushing at a tremendous speed and was aimed precisely at the mouth of the silo missile launcher of the Strategic Missile Forces. The blow was considered inevitable. Stars flickered, and suddenly a new one flashed among them. In a matter of seconds, it turned into a giant firework, which took half of the firmament. The night parted, it became light as day. A huge balloon the size of the moon sprang from the fireworks. And almost after this several explosions were heard, and prominences flew from the ball in different directions. Then everything went out. It was a fantastic, directly apocalyptic spectacle. For the first time in the world, which has not been repeated by anyone so far, a non-nuclear means were intercepted at a safe distance from a ballistic target in a descending section of the trajectory.

link

[Pimply]

Communicated on Waronline with a man who was related to Trophy. He claimed that tandem ammunition was not such a problem. I didn’t open further. At the moment, the system shot down two ATGMs in combat conditions.

In parallel, there is a refinement of Iron Fist. But this thing in tests in the States shot down a tank shell.

[0255]

Quote: Pimply

The system is super. Until now, she shot down several ATGMs, which, most likely, saved the lives of tank crews. Or do you want to say that nowhere and never are there technical failures?

after all, armored personnel carriers and anti-tank systems are two different things. And how many ATGMs from the number of issued ones did this miracle system bring down? You need to know the ratio of fired and shot missiles in order to evaluate the effectiveness of such protection.

Fortunately, the system did not launch an anti-missile anti-missile system, but an explosive was released. As a result of a system failure, no one was injured and no damage was caused. The IDF began to investigate the causes of the failure.

but what’s interesting is that the BTR missile defense did not come out - is this also due to a Merkava equipment failure?

[Pimply]

Quote: 0255

after all, armored personnel carriers and anti-tank systems are two different things. And how many ATGMs from the number of issued ones did this miracle system bring down? You need to know the ratio of fired and shot missiles in order to evaluate the effectiveness of such protection.

If they do not change their memory, three were released, three were detected, two were shot down, the third went by, and therefore did not go astray.

[Tourist Breakfast]

but what’s interesting is that the BTR missile defense did not come out - is this also due to a Merkava equipment failure?

The "Windbreaker" has no "anti-missile" at all. Therefore, nothing can be concluded from this news.

[Altona]

Or do you want to say that nowhere and never are there technical failures?
-------------------------------
No, there are failures everywhere ... Only it is necessary to prescribe in the charter so that the escort vehicles do not approach the Merkava at such a distance, in order to avoid the attack of the Trophy KAZ ... And the super-specialists should issue a technical task for the development of a sensor that distinguishes the gas namer from a missile attacking a tank ...

[31231]

It is a pity they didn’t try it in urban battles. In Damascus, you should take a look at it, and indeed the survivability and help of KAZ.

[Ruslan_F38]

The IDF began investigating the causes of the failure.

- The KGB is involved, not otherwise

[afire]

Quote: Ruslan_F38

The IDF began investigating the causes of the failure.

- The KGB is involved, not otherwise

oh these Belarusians

[Aleks tv]

This is to be expected.
More sophisticated automatic systems have only just begun to be deployed in the troops ...

I don’t jerk about carrots, just the infa itself about failures of systems of this kind is always theoretically ... ahem, annoying.
Here are the first bells.
I hope this is fixable (on active defense equipment) during further military operation.

[Pimply]

It will be alarming if the failure repeats. So far, this is a single failure for more than 4 years of operation.

[Ingvar 72]

Failures are everywhere. Americans, too, like their own Phalanx slashed.

[major071]

Windbreaker "of one of the tanks worked, mistaking the Namer armored personnel carrier for an enemy missile

Along the way, the system is tuned well for very LARGE rockets.

[0255]

Quote: major071

Windbreaker "of one of the tanks worked, mistaking the Namer armored personnel carrier for an enemy missile

Along the way, the system is tuned well for very LARGE rockets.

System configured protection against Iranian ballistic missiles

[31231]

Mines, MLRS and ATGM missiles, ballistic missiles. That's all she has atavism from the LCD. And from the new I think anti-meteor protection. Jews simply do not say anything and do not want to reveal the secret of how they fight the Palestinian flying boulders

[Ruslan_F38]

Confused what article about merkava. Is there an Israeli lobby?

[Pimply]

Tsahal - one of the most howling armies, armies with advanced developments. In Israel, an abundance of Russian-language media. That’s the secret.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Pimply

Advanced Army

And with advanced ambition, you forgot to say.

[Pimply]

Quote: Ingvar 72

And with advanced ambition, you forgot to say

And what do you think they are expressed in?

[Ruslan_F38]

Quote: Pimply

Tsahal - one of the most howling armies, armies with advanced developments. In Israel, an abundance of Russian-language media. That’s the secret.

Actually, in the world there are other worthy fighting specimens - t-72 for example.
Your merkava I dream at night

[Pimply]

Quote: Ruslan_F38

Actually, in the world there are other worthy fighting specimens - t-72 for example.
Your merkava I dream at night

Did I just say something about the T-72? It seems not. The problem is different - those instances of the T-72 that are fighting now, as a rule, are at the level of 80 = x of the last century, in the best case - 90.

[Ruslan_F38]

Quote: Pimply

The problem is different - those instances of the T-72 that are fighting now, as a rule, are at the level of 80 = x of the last century, in the best case - 90.

The T-72 is an unpretentious, easy to maintain and operate tank, and with qualified crew it is able to withstand any tank in the world, including the merkava. And those who discard this machine as equipment from the last century may later pay for underestimating the technology of potential opponents. This is not a threat, this is a warning

[Pimply]

Quote: Ruslan_F38

The T-72 is an unpretentious, easy to maintain and operate tank, and with qualified crew it is able to withstand any tank in the world, including the merkava. And those who discard this machine as equipment from the last century may later pay for underestimating the technology of potential opponents. This is not a threat, this is a warning

You can fight well with the three-line and PPSh in modern conditions. Even with Lee Anfield. The question is that progress does not stand still. And a Marxman with a trijikon with A3 cartridges will hit the target with a much greater degree of probability.

[Ruslan_F38]

Quote: Pimply

You can fight well with the three-line and PPSh in modern conditions.

Well, this is already too much, your analogies ..., the T-72 may technically lag behind your much-vaunted merkava but not as much!

The question is that progress does not stand still.

in this case, it’s not worth the recent modernization of the T-72 brought this tank to a completely different level. Once again I repeat, do not underestimate our technique - there is an article on VO about this http://topwar.ru/7166-armiya-vybiraet-modernizaciyu-t-72-vmesto-zakupok-t-90.htm
l.

[Pimply]

Quote: Ruslan_F38

Well, this is already too much, your analogies ..., the T-72 may technically lag behind your much-vaunted merkava but not as much!

Which T-72 are we talking about? About the version, which for example in Syria? She's 80s. A 30-year gap. Against one - yes, perhaps. Against 4s with modern tank shells and the ability to coordinate their actions with UAVs and the Air Force ... T-90A are modern - well, according to a number of parameters, it is 5-7 years behind, it is not for nothing that Russian military leaders have been so deliberately "Carrot was examined not so long ago at the exhibition. Constructive moments - there is a lot that could be argued about initially.

[shasherin_pavel]

"Ger Oberst! A Russian soldier knocked out our tank, then climbed into it and knocked out four more of our tanks!"
"Okay, now we can also write about the victory of German weapons!"

[Altona]

Tsahal - one of the most howling armies
-------------------------
Hale Avir is the most flying, Mossad is the most spying ...

[Pimply]

Quote: Altona

Hale Avir is the most flying, Mossad is the most spying ...

And you won’t

[Bober]

Okay, so be it, I will tell the Jews what the mistake is. The PID controller of the result of the data processing speed must be removed from under the square root. The system will work faster, and so will the turtle behind the tamahawk.

[yanus]

Fortunately, the system did not launch an anti-ballistic missile defense on the armored personnel carrier, but an explosive was released.

That is, not only did the detection system screw up, but also the missile defense did not really work?

[Professor]

What a clumsy news. An APC for a missile, "the system did not fire an anti-missile at the APC, but an explosive was released." There is actually no anti-missile. They confused her with another Israeli KAZ? In the photo there are no fours and KAZ, respectively. Hmm ...

[Pimply]

http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4439221,00.html

Cant in the news in Hebrew.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: professor

Some kind of clumsy news

Professor, is this not your work? Then sorry, my jamb. It's just that carrots are already allergic.

[saturn.mmm]

Quote: professor

The photo is not a four and KAZ, respectively, is not. Hm ...

Monday is a difficult day in Russia; today it is not the only article with inaccuracies. So what was there with KAZ?

[Pimply]

The system worked abnormally. The news in Hebrew information is kutsai. There was an operation on Namer, the explosive fired in charge, but the countercharge itself did not fire. I would suggest that one of the systems reacted and failed, while the rest worked normally, and did not react to the APC.

In the Hebrew article, the protivosnayard is designated as "til" (rocket), although it is not at all. IDF is checking.

[Tourist Breakfast]

The news in Hebrew information is kutsai.

There in the kammenty people are notably making fun of this journalist. I was especially killed by the comment that the "Windbreaker" reacted not to the armored personnel carrier itself, but to the Arabic music, which screamed at the golans from the armored personnel carrier.

[Professor]

Quote: saturn.mmm

So what was there with KAZ?

The system has been triggered by a false alarm. Neither armored personnel carriers nor other equipment. Naturally, there are no anti-missiles.

[saturn.mmm]

Quote: professor

The system has been triggered by a false alarm.

This is the closest to the truth, thanks.

[Tourist Breakfast]

I think in the article the journalists speculated something, due to the scarce information received from the military. What exactly did Vetrovka take for and what did not launch, we can only guess.

[Sobol]

They at least have this KAZ. And we have new tanks in the form of naked troops. God forbid again some kind of bodalovo arises and we will look at the burned tanks, and think why and who is to blame.

[tor11121]

and what do we get used to? bare ass on the fence. while the snot will not get any sense.

[yanus]

Quote: SoboL

They at least have this KAZ. And we have new tanks in the form of naked troops. God forbid again some kind of bodalovo arises and we will look at the burned tanks, and think why and who is to blame.

Well, in Georgia "bodalovo" was what? Old tanks versus updated tanks. The Georgians also had RPGs and ATGMs. And where are the thousands of Russian tanks burnt out?

[Cherdak]

Quote: professor

Did they confuse her with another Israeli KAZ?

That's right, Mr. Professor, these goyim simply cannot keep up with the rapid progress of the Israeli armed forces.

[Ruslan_F38]

Wow I don't see the professor's comments, apparently he put me on the black list as the main enemy of the "great peace-loving Israel" - rzhu nimagu well, or blown away, the arguments apparently ended

[31231]

Do not flatter yourself. Professor for many here is a ghost.

[Ruslan_F38]

Quote: 31231

Do not flatter yourself. Professor for many here is a ghost.

Why are you so with me, took a landed, oh you ...

[yanus]

Quote: Pimply

The United States will leave, believe me - someone else from the Big Five will immediately appear - if only because cooperation with Israel is an extremely profitable business: this is technology, influence, and a serious lever of influence in the Middle East.

The share of high technologies of Israel in the world is insignificant. These technologies can lure only third world countries, but not the Big Five.
"impact, and a serious lever influences in the Middle East. "- this is generally according to Freud))) You can influence in three ways - economic, political, military.
Economic. Is Israel a serious trading partner with the Middle East? )))
Political. In the Middle East, will someone seriously negotiate with Israel? )))
Military. It is a little better, but there is a very simple fact - Israel is not able to wage more or less prolonged wars. For example, the United States occupied Iraq and controlled it for quite some time. For better or worse, they did it, another question. But Israel is not able to seize and control the same Palestine for at least a year. So, military influence is highly controversial. Only for countries with which the common border is limited.

You still do not want to understand the simple truth - Israel suits everyone. For the United States and Europe, it is a "loyal ally," for the Arabs, an "eternal enemy." But only the United States, Europe, and the Arabs very well "communicate" with each other, not looking particularly at the interests of Israel. At the same time, the Arabs are not particularly eager to destroy Israel. And the United States and Europe are in no hurry to secure their "loyal ally."

[Tourist Breakfast]

You still do not want to understand the simple truth - Israel suits everyone. For the United States and Europe, it is a "loyal ally," for the Arabs, an "eternal enemy." But only the United States, Europe, and the Arabs very well "communicate" with each other, not looking particularly at the interests of Israel. At the same time, the Arabs are not particularly eager to destroy Israel. And the United States and Europe are in no hurry to secure their "loyal ally."

This is roughly how it is. But you have a logical inconsistency in the last two sentences. If the Arabs "are not eager to destroy Israel," then why should the United States and Europe "rush to secure it"?



From today's news:

The social network Facebook on October 14 will officially announce the acquisition of the Israeli startup Onavo. The amount of the transaction will be 150-200 million dollars. The company will become the third acquired Israeli company for Facebook.

[nikcris]

You are not right!
Economically. They sell us radishes and carrots.
Politically. Since 1948, we have only been engaged in armed negotiations with them.
Military. It flows from the political - all our negotiations, the Orabs allies ALWAYS poured, except for the Suez Canal, but Britain and France, famous warriors in the fifties, were tied there.
About Arabs - everything is true)))

[31231]

Quote: nikcris

You are not right!
Economically. They sell us radishes and carrots.

I also bought kosher grapefruits and pomegranates.
But I’m not familiar with the program yet.

[Pimply]

Quote: 31231

But I’m not familiar with the program yet.

Icq, for example

[31231]

Thanks for the educational program.

[Pimply]

If you continue - Microsoft, IBM and so on. have their own research centers in Israel. Waze. Wix. Viber In general, many programs, just do not remember.

[Pimply]

Quote: yanus

The share of high technologies of Israel in the world is insignificant. These technologies can lure only third world countries, but not the Big Five.

Let's see how insignificant. For the past few years, Israelis have been getting Nobel Chemistry and Physics literally in a row.
Intel processors are being developed in Israel (for example, i7, Pentium MMX, and a bunch of others).

The Israelis came up with a mobile phone (partially) - the first commercial mobile phone was developed by the Israeli branch of the company, chips for mobile phone cameras, sms, the first anti-virus program, Israeli doctors are at the forefront of the fight against hepatitis, heart diseases and are pioneers in the field of organ transplants. Well, about such a little thing as a usb flash drive and ICQ.

Israel has the highest concentration of computers per capita. In terms of education, Israel ranks third in the world, 12% of the population has an academic degree. In the NASDAQ listing, Israeli companies are second only to American companies, and there are more of them than all European, Indian and Chinese combined.

Israelis publish a gigantic amount of scientific articles - 16 a year - more than all the Arab countries and Iran combined. In the United States, Israelis, citizens of a country with a population of 470 million, file 7 patents per year — slightly less than Italy (1970 million). For comparison, Israel’s neighbors register a meager number of patents - Saudi Arabia - 60, Turkey - 53, Egypt - 40, UAE - 20, Iran - 9, Lebanon - 8, Syria - 5. Over the past 0 years, Israelis have received six Nobel prizes in the field Sciences. Israel holds the first place in the world in the number of patented medical devices and the fourth - in patents in the field of biotechnology.

Russia purchased matrices for thermal imagers, in addition to France, in Israel.

Yes, it seems that Israel’s influence is negligible.

[31231]

And I bought a pile with a drink-wig. The most important thing on corporate parties I will tell you.

[crisis]

I bought a blouse and a bottle of vodara

[smirnov]

(partially) - it's five with a plus, I'm under the table

[smirnov]

And what about Gagarin, his mother is not Jewish for an hour?

[kavkaz8888]

And I thought that these were Great Ukrainians ancestors of elephants. And all the others at the same time. But no! These are all Jews !!! And they came up with mobile phones, and computers for three pieces per person, and snobelki with suitcases !!! (etc., etc.)

[Consmo]

All is well beautiful marquise.
Russian-language schools graduate (in which ordinary students admit by competition and do not pass this competition) children who are unable to pass the exam at a Russian institute. Only paid. 50 percent of Russian-speaking children after school leave immediately
Gates is a Jew and built a factory in Israel. They make processors but they don’t develop it. (A friend of acquaintances there works accordingly from Russia)
The dream of an ordinary Jew to have a fruit shop in the market. or a shop with gold. To do this, you need to write and count to 1000. Everything. Under this and prepare the citizens of the country.
Articles to write is a good thing, and to get patents, it’s worthless from this.
Although a patent was also received for an umbrella in a cocktail and straws with a bend.
Aliya ended. The money the Americans gave to her for it. Where the house is and the construction. Shacks without heating. (Why are there blankets for the winter)? Half a million bucks cost 30 percent for the house ahead. Young people dump. What will the Jews do when the Russians run out? professors and students with a triple education by our standards. Although Israel has a 100 point system.
I know from a friend one of the highest points after school was. But the military institute, with a bias, did not take as much as Russian.
Every day we hammer, we are crushed into the environment, morally escalate the situation.
Jewish news is better not to watch, there will be no appetite.
So what else.
Chariot.
Yes, a mobile firing point weighing 70 tons.
It is contraindicated to drive a lot. They are transported by tractors.

They put tactics a kilometer and a half away from the adobe buildings of the Palestinians. Sometimes they shoot in their direction.

[Vitaly Anisimov]

Good article ! People at least neighing from the heart ..

[cth; fyn]

In vain you laugh, now they will understand what the problem is and fix it on all machines, and Israel is our sworn friend ...

[Consmo]

Active defense is a thing in itself.
In battle, it turns out that it’s better not to approach your tanks. All infantry will be mowed out by their own AZ.
And without infantry support, what is a tank. Target.
That worked on the APC.
In a real conflict, they will immediately figure out what else works. For example, on Chinese fireworks, illuminating with an IR spotlight and so on. And a memo to the fighters on a piece of paper, before shooting the tank, to start New Year's lights.
I heard that on this issue there are great doubts about the effectiveness of systems of this type. Including Arena.

[Ruslan]

and the instructions said that closer than 50 meters to the arena can not be approached. there even a signal beacon works, warns the infantry. and as I understand it, when the tank shoots the infantry there’s still nothing to do next, at least you will be deafened by the tank shot. compliance with the instructions for use will ensure safety. infantry support does not mean that it should run near the tank. as far as I remember the arena’s radar is designed to respond to certain speeds, everything that moves slowly nearby moves is not the goal. I will not talk about efficiency, but if at least the rpg will intercept, it’s already good.

[Consmo]

RPG in the city of infantry intercepts.
Well, the tank will reach the target without infantry and what to do next, get out to give up? Fuel, oil, shells, where is the grub?
The Germans stomped to Moscow using the tactics of tank coverings. Until they did not cripple this tactic near Moscow. And all the great German generals ended.
When the infantry was cut off.
And the tanks that broke through, shot mobile groups from cannons.
Fedka von Bock immediately had something sick, he didn’t remember what, but strongly. He asked for a vacation. He also remembered that it was winter and she was to blame.

[Pimply]

Quote: Konsmo

In battle, it turns out that it’s better not to approach your tanks. All infantry will be mowed out by their own AZ.
And without infantry support, what is a tank. Target.

The difference between the "Windbreaker" is precisely in the fact that the degree of probability of defeat of the infantry is minimal in it.

[Consmo]

That is, when one smokes nearby and another gets out to pee 20 meters from the tank, the system does not work?

[kavkaz8888]

Correctly! Why exchange for infantry. Only on bets.

[31231]

And it’s hard to imagine it in everyday routine military work. Syrians have no time to weld screens, but here is the most complicated set of equipment. But for patrolling at the border, he has no price.

[Sergey Medvedev]

It would be interesting to know the cause of this failure. To know how this system can be disabled.

[Student]

If only KAZ worked for a rocket, otherwise it would think that the armored personnel carrier and it would score on this

[yanus]

To argue with all the nonsense in style - in the Soviet Union it was better education, the most reading population, and so on and so on in relation to Israel I will not even. If you want to believe, believe it, but what didn’t you sit in the USSR then? )))
But these two phrases are important and confirm my opinion:

Quote: Pimply

Russia purchased matrices for thermal imagers, in addition to France, in Israel.

Yes, it seems that Israel’s influence is negligible.

A simple example - how can it affect the behavior of Russia based on the supply of thermal imagers? You will not sell? So buy in France.
The same situation, but with products. How can Russia put pressure on Ukraine? Increase duties. Will Ukraine be able to quickly change customers without having problems with the economy? No. So economically, Russia can influence its neighbors. But Israel is not.
Similarly, with political influence - the support of presidential candidates, the threat of a visa regime, the capture of illegal immigrants.
It's funny that you have to explain such simple things.

[Pimply]

Quote: yanus

A simple example - how can it affect the behavior of Russia based on the supply of thermal imagers? You will not sell? So buy in France.

You see, you can find anything. There are alternatives to everything. You can refuse radishes, computers, medical technology, ICQ, mobile phones and more.
And?
Does it somehow reduce the degree of influence of Israel on modern technology?

[yanus]

Quote: Pimply

Quote: yanus

A simple example - how can it affect the behavior of Russia based on the supply of thermal imagers? You will not sell? So buy in France.

You see, you can find anything. There are alternatives to everything. You can refuse radishes, computers, medical technology, ICQ, mobile phones and more.
And?
Does it somehow reduce the degree of influence of Israel on modern technology?

We actually discussed the influence of Israel on the countries of the Middle East region.

And about the impact on technology - so you wrote so much rubbish there that you are too lazy to comment.

[Pimply]

Quote: yanus

And about the impact on technology - so you wrote so much rubbish there that you are too lazy to comment.

And you try.

[128mgb]

Pace did not make out on time ,, windbreaker ,, I apologize to representatives of Jewish nationality, wrote only for the sake of laughter.

[misantrop22]

On this site they love Merkava very much. To recall at least a whole bunch of articles about Merkava's vulnerabilities. And here it is !!! Catastrophe!!!

[TTX]

Excellent. "Abnormal triggering in an abnormal situation" In action on the open air, after all, everyone communicates from the "iron" at a distance of 50m, they don't come closer ... A common sore of all "innovations" about protection As soon as the human factor is removed, immediately remove it within a kilometer radius it is desirable, otherwise the billionth intellectualka is "poking around" ... My unlearned heart feels: we will return to the shields and swords again ... well, maybe we will open the gunpowder again ... until our "armed" calculators have shot us " in the interests of national security "..

[Sobol]

Quote: yanus

Well, in Georgia "bodalovo" was what? Old tanks versus updated tanks. The Georgians also had RPGs and ATGMs. And where are the thousands of Russian tanks burnt out?

Did I write about thousands of tanks? I wrote about the lack of KAZ on our tanks. As for Georgia, according to the Russian Ministry of Defense, we lost 3 tanks. KAZ could protect them? I believe that completely. So what kind of thousands I can’t understand.

[sergey158-29]

QUOTE: "Fortunately, the system did not fire an anti-missile at the armored personnel carrier, but an explosive was released ...

Not understood! THIS phrase someone can translate into Russian ???

[Agent 008]

The tank just wanted to tell the armored personnel carrier: "Don't come close to me - GO PIG IS NOT A COMMAND ...

[Aleksey_K]

Quote: Kibalchish

BTR for the rocket ??????????? Well, at what speed does this prodigy ride ??? Hypersonic armored vehicles invented in Israel ???

Most likely, the BTR gunner aimed at the tank. And Merkava took the radiation from the sight for a flying rocket. This is a programming error in the Windbreaker protection system.

[Agent 008]

Quote: sergey158-29

QUOTE: "Fortunately, the system did not fire an anti-missile at the armored personnel carrier, but an explosive was released ...

Not understood! THIS phrase someone can translate into Russian ???

As I understand it, the tank has several defense systems - anti-missiles (also missiles) separately, and explosive charges separate from small barrels that are near the tower ... Well, something like this, somewhere I read ...

[Pimply]

Merkava bathing lovers in the mud. Judging by the trailer, the guys are going to the cottage.

[31231]

NLD didn't even get wet ?! Oh wei, what a tall tank! Or is it floating ?!

[kavkaz8888]

Ahhh !! Again a barrel of beer is being rolled !!

[Pimply]

By the way, about an interesting thing. Logistic trailer for the tank. The tank gets the opportunity for greater operational maneuvering. Kars, I think, will be especially interesting.



As for dirt - I recommend doubters to watch the video.

[Kars]

Vidio interesting. Particularly impressed as Merkava rode backwards (without trailer)

A trailer is nothing new under the moon.

[Pimply]

Yes, definitely 8)

[kavkaz8888]

Good barrels carry beer. Is there such a thing about merkava?

Unfortunately, I don’t have an ending, but ours got this pool.

[Pimply]

Quote: kavkaz8888

Unfortunately, I don’t have an ending, but ours got this pool.

Do I take your word for it?
And since when has the car driven into the mud and the systematic killing of the engine been considered valor?

[kavkaz8888]

This is not "corral" or "killing". JUST ROAD. They are just going. I would like to see at least one eye in the performance of a carrot, at least something like that. Or is this a Great Military Secret? All of the above is scratching the abdomen on the sand.

[jjj]

For some reason, all this reminded a joke about a peaceful Soviet tractor

[Bashkaus]

Even soulless electronics understand where the threat to peace comes from.

[Vitaly Anisimov]

Quote: mizantrop22

On this site they love Merkava very much. To recall at least a whole bunch of articles about Merkava's vulnerabilities. And here it is !!! Catastrophe!!!

The professor works well ..))) I’m sure that about this tank .. before the majority didn’t even hear .. But here there is a fountain of comments .. Here they are Jews (without soap even where ... they’ll climb and advertise))) It’s in their blood ..

[mr_Doom]

I wonder what kind of merkava mk.5, but just do merkava - this is a fresh of the best ideas of tank building.

[Pimply]

Mk.5 project is frozen

[mr_Doom]

I wonder what kind of merkava mk.5, but just do merkava - this is a fresh of the best ideas of tank building.

[e3tozy]

Quote: svp67

What only happens in life

Pictures of scream. Theme is saturated. Thanks to all forum users for the positive !!!

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Quote: Basarev

And they don’t rightly yell. Israel is in a centuries-old siege of the Arabs.

oh bent !!! in the know when this state was formed ???

[In the reeds]

Quote: Pimply

You would know what curses in Russian little Israeli children know 8))

They don't understand what they are talking about. They think they are sending ... "Go like Benin's mother" So they understand. But when Lieberman is required from the Knesset. In Russia, I think they won't allow themselves this. I personally heard

[Hug]

Quote: Bashkaus

Even soulless electronics understand where the threat to peace comes from.

Did you go to school? Where from where?