Military Review

Shots from 1973

51

The main loser in the fifth Arab-Israeli war was the Soviet Union


Almost all participants of the fifth Arab-Israeli war, which began on October 6 1973, have left the political scene, a certain interpretation scheme of what happened has long been established in official historiography. Why is it worth today to recall this military conflict in the Middle East forty years ago? And because the past is shooting. After each war, the world becomes different, and after the 1973 war, it changed dramatically.

Petrodollars, the hegemony of Saudi Arabia in the Muslim world, the loss of Soviet influence in the Middle East - all this is a consequence of the war, then called the "October" or "Doomsday War". Actually, the war, which lasted 18 days, was only the background of a grand geopolitical intrigue that changed the world.

The geopolitical interests of Washington, the US and Israel deal, the intrigues of Anwar Sadat, the desire of Western financial circles to preserve the dollar as a world currency, the steps of the oil lobby in reformatting relations with oil-producing countries, the ambitious plans of Saudi dynasty and Muammar Gaddafi, in a word tight tangle of interests and contradictions.

Yes, some of the secret documents from the archives of the United States and Israel concerning political intrigues around that war have already been selectively declassified and are awaiting their reading.

But behind the scenes of the war continues to be so unsightly for some of its participants that an attempt to reveal some of the secrets of that time ends with "death under unexplained circumstances."
For example, as happened in June 27 2007 years in London with 62-year old Egyptian millionaire Ashraf Marwan, the son in law of Gamal Abdel Nasser, Anwar Sadat's political adviser, and in combination - the Mossad "Babylon" agent transferred the Israelis on the eve of an extremely important information war. It has been established that he “fell out” from the window of his own house. The manuscript of his book “October 1973 of the Year: How It Was,” on which he had worked over the past few years, has disappeared.

Which, however, is not surprising, because this book, in fact - testimony, could refute the main thesis, which still holds the official version of the events of that war imposed on us. The version of the "suddenness of Arab aggression against peace-loving Israel."

The declassified Israeli documents of the “Agranat Commission”, which “without delay” investigated the circumstances of the “Doomsday War” and the causes of the great losses of Israel, show us the touching unanimity of Tel Aviv politicians and military. They say in their voice: The main reason for the failures of the Jewish state at the first stage of the war was the "suddenness of the Arab attack." And consequently - the failure and "Mossad", and military intelligence AMAN. Moreover, the Americans are also guilty, because they “did not warn”. However, with regard to the fact that "the Americans did not warn," Israeli sources differ somewhat. Some argue that Washington generally concealed information about the military preparations of Egypt and Syria, others - that the United States warned, but only a few hours. However, these discrepancies relate only to the role of the Americans, with respect to the Israeli leadership, the sources and testimony are unanimous and simplehearted. Golda Meir blames the military and the scouts for everything - they didn’t insist: they don’t know what would happen if I could say what I felt: something bad is coming ... But I couldn’t clash with the chief of the General Staff and the head of military intelligence ... We were afraid that if we called for the reserve in advance, the Arabs would think that we ourselves were preparing to attack and attack earlier. "

Only those who do not know the situation of that time can believe the Israeli prime minister of that time. Israel’s victory in the 1967 Six-Day War resulted in Tel Aviv occupying the Sinai Peninsula right up to the east bank of the Suez Canal, West Bank and Golan Heights. In November of that same year, 1967, the UN Security Council unanimously adopted resolution 242, which called on Israel to withdraw from the “territories occupied in the recent conflict” - in exchange for the completion of the state of war and the right of all states in the region to “live in peace, secure and recognized boundaries. "

Israel refused to comply with this resolution, which was the beginning of the “war of attrition”, in which the parties exchanged air raids, shelling and acts of sabotage groups. Officially, it ended in the 1970 year, but actually lasted until the 1973 year.

The position of Tel Aviv with respect to the occupied territories enjoyed almost complete support from Washington, which literally “pushed” the Israeli army with the latest military technology.

In 1973 alone, Israel received 40 new American Skyhawk and Phantom aircraft, hundreds tanks, armored vehicles, artillery guns and mortars, anti-aircraft systems, homing smart bombs, various radar equipment and other military equipment. Of course, such a recharge has borne fruit, making Tel Aviv’s policy more uncompromising and aggressive.

Say, the 8, which began on January 1973, is a battle between Israeli and Syrian troops that lasted all day. According to official Israeli data, in the period from November 1972 of the year to January of 1973, as a result of the actions of the army, at least 500 of Palestinian partisans and 250 of Syrian soldiers were killed. In February, the Israeli Air Force shot down a civilian aircraft of the Libyan airline carrying 1973 passengers on board over the Sinai Desert in February. They all died. The UN Security Council condemned Israel for this air piracy. But less than six months later, two Israeli military fighters intercepted a passenger plane of the Lebanese airline MEA. And again - for the 120 time after the 18 of the year - a condemning resolution of the Security Council followed. Moreover, everything was so obvious that the United States did not even dare to use the right of veto. In March 1967, Israeli paratroopers temporarily captured the Egyptian island of Zukar in the Red Sea. A month later, on 1973 on April 10, Israeli saboteurs who landed in Beirut kill three leaders of the Palestinian resistance movement and blow up several storage tanks. The culmination of this undeclared war can be considered the events of September 1973 13, when as a result of air combat in the sky over the border between Lebanon and Syria, 1973 MiG-12 planes of the Syrian air forces were shot down.

The Central Intelligence Agency 26 September preempted Israel on the inevitability of war. Tel Aviv’s response was simply amazing: you shouldn’t worry, the Arabs would only be able to attack Israel in a few years. And the concentration of Egyptian troops on the border - the usual military maneuvers, which was officially announced long ago. Moreover, Israeli intelligence told her American colleagues: according to her, military maneuvers should end soon, and Egyptian officers have already been demobilized and pilgrims went to Mecca ...

On the night of 4 on October 5, just a day before the war, Mossad chief Zvi Zamir flew to London to meet with Ashraf Maroine. Marouan gave Zamira a secret code that signified the signal for the start of the war.

On October 1, only ten people in Egypt knew that military maneuvers were the forerunner of real war. On October 3, Egypt agreed with Syria on the day and time of the attack on Israel - 14.00 on October 6. Then, on October 4-5, the evacuation of Soviet specialists from Syria and part of the staff of the Soviet embassy from Egypt began, which also became known to the Israelis.

Israeli radio stations, which were supposed to stop broadcasting on Yom Kippur’s (Doomsday) 6 day in October, sent a cryptic phrase every quarter of an hour: “Sea wolf!”, “Beautiful lady!”, “Meat patties!”. The code words belonged to different groups of reservists, who urgently needed to arrive at the appropriate military units. These activities, as the head of the Israeli general staff later acknowledged, completed military preparations that had been carried out in the army during the previous ten days. Therefore, there can be no talk of any “surprise attack”.

And here in the testimony of the same Golda Meir contains actually the key to the oddities of the beginning of this war. Speaking of the fact that she was pleased with her decision to announce the call of reservists on the morning of the Doomsday, Golda Meir added that the transfer of American aid to Israel during the war was made possible by the decision not to deliver a preemptive strike.

And the whole история “October war” after these words begins to look different. It becomes clear that the Israelis, like the Americans, were well aware of the preparation attack. Israel to 5-6 October held a hidden mobilization. The debate of the Israeli cabinet 4-5 of October was not about whether the Arabs would attack or not, but about whether they should preempt them. And all this - in the framework of some secret agreements with the United States. What?

On the night of 5 on October 6, right after the cabinet meeting, Golda Meir met with Kenneth Ketting, the US ambassador to Israel.
Later, Israeli leaders themselves acknowledged that the main goal of the American diplomat was to persuade the Israeli government to abandon its intention to launch a “preventive strike” on the Arabs so that Tel Aviv would not look like an “aggressor” in the eyes of world public opinion. The ambassador made it clear that otherwise the United States would be in a difficult position to render military and other support to Israel.

But this is not all that the premier and the ambassador spoke about that night. According to sources, “the US ambassador shared the forecasts of some informed US departments about the possible results of the new round of the Arab-Israeli war.” First, Washington was confident that Israel this time would be able to “crush the Arab forces” even without a “preventive” strike. Secondly, he should not fear the union of Egypt with Syria, for they pursue completely different goals. If Damascus fights for the liberation of the occupied Arab lands and a just solution to the Palestinian problem, then Cairo, and indeed Washington, the war should, first of all, help to “unfreeze” the situation in the Middle East.

That which was invested in the notion of “defrosting”, Chief Ketting, then US Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, just 18 hours later, explained during confidential talks to the PRC Ambassador to the UN, Juan Zhenyu: “Our strategic goal is to deprive the Soviets of their dominant position The Middle East ... In the outbreak of the war, the coalition of Arab countries will fail, because we, the United States, want to demonstrate to all Arab states: those who rely on the help of the Soviet Union will never succeed. "

Kissinger’s confident tone was simply explained - the presence of a “trump ace” up his sleeve, secret agreements with another key figure of the “October war”, Egyptian President Anwar Sadat. Unlike the USSR, the leaders of Israel, Syria and Libya, unlike the rest of the world, the secretary of state knew firmly: Sadat during the war would only create the appearance of interaction with his Arab allies, and in fact would closely coordinate his military and political actions with Washington .

“The most striking thing was that at first, literally no one was fully aware of what this man was,” Kissinger would say about him later. May be. But the fact that the new Egyptian president can be included in the anti-Soviet party of the United States in the Middle East was understood in Washington quite quickly.

In contrast to his predecessor, Gamal Abdel Nasser, Sadat was primarily an Egyptian nationalist. As is often the case, for all its foreign policy brilliance, the post-Nasser ARE was a political and economic bankrupt. The unbridled ambition and self-confidence that prevailed after the successes of Cairo in the 1956 Suez crisis of the year turned into dust after the defeat in the “six-day war”. Over 20, the percent of the gross national product of Egypt was allocated for military spending, which made it impossible at least any success in economic development. There was a growing social tension inside the country. The personal authority of Sadat fell as a leader who was unable to achieve either real progress in the liberation of the lands occupied by Israel, nor the improvement of the life of the Egyptians. Supporters of the late president rightly accused Sadat of abandoning “Nasserism,” of departing from the principles of “Arab socialism,” of not wanting to create a unified Arab state stretching from the Adriatic to the Persian Gulf.

Of course, it was not at all about some kind of “following ideals”, but about an elementary struggle for power, which in the East, as a rule, ends with the physical destruction of one of the parties. In a word, the seat under Sadat swayed. The new president saw a way out for himself and for the country from the critical situation in changing his geopolitical orientation, to go under the wing of Washington, to become part of the American system of control of the region. And, therefore, to receive large-scale economic assistance, peace with Israel and guarantees of their own power.

To begin with, in the 1971 year, the "May correctional revolution" was carried out. The most active opponents of Sadat from Nasser’s entourage were removed from power and arrested. A rejection of pan-Arab ambitions was recorded in the renaming of the country from the United Arab Republic to the Arab Republic of Egypt.

In July, 1972, although the USSR continued to supply it weapons, Sadat expelled Soviet military advisers and technical experts from the country, the total number of which at that time was about 20 thousand people.

The “invitation to dance” for Washington was more than obvious, but no one had opened the expected open arms to Sadat, as he might have expected. The United States needed stronger evidence of loyalty. Moreover, Sadat was obliged to accomplish something that finally “burned the bridges” and made it impossible for him to renounce his partnership with the Americans.

In winter, 1972 and early spring, 1973. Kissinger held several secret meetings with Sadhat’s national security adviser Muhammad Hafez Ismail. According to one of Ismail’s staff, Ahmad El-Sayed, who attended the meetings, Kissinger said plainly that “Egypt cannot expect at the negotiating table to get what it lost on the battlefield,” and that “Washington can do little to help Egypt as long as he himself does not take decisive steps. " The hint was more than transparent: in order to return Sinai, Egypt had to go to some kind of active actions.

By a strange coincidence, after these consultations, Sadat began to discuss with his entourage the forceful option of Sinai’s return, which included an attack on Israel in coalition with other Arab countries. “Sadat’s goal was not so much to gain territorial advantages, but to fuel the crisis, which would defuse the frozen relations between the parties and thus open the way to negotiations,” Kissinger later said frankly, shyly silent about the fact that it was he who “put into Sadat’s head” this target. “Surprise and shock will make it possible for both sides, including Egypt, to demonstrate flexibility, which was impossible while Israel considered itself to be a militarily superior party, and Egypt was paralyzed as a result of the humiliation inflicted on it. In short, Sadat’s goal was more psychological and diplomatic than military. ”

A month before the start of the October war, Sadat admitted to a well-known Egyptian journalist, in fact, to his personal biographer Mohamed Heikal: “This is our last chance. If we do not grab it, we will eventually miss the train. ”

True, this chance involved the betrayal of other partners from the Arab world. Before the war, Sadat received from Muammar Gaddafi "to fight with Israel" military and financial assistance, estimated at least a billion dollars. However, he did not warn about the upcoming military operation. But he informed the Saudi monarch, King Faisal, who promised him "support in all his endeavors." Attracting Syria to a military operation against Israel, Sadat did not hint at all about Egypt’s limited objectives in this operation. And then, when October 11 Israel launched an offensive and advanced deep into Syrian territory at a distance from which Damascus could be fired, did not lift a finger to come to the aid of an ally.

Sadat lied to everyone. When the 3-I Egyptian army was under threat of total annihilation, he remembered about Moscow, sending a panic telegram to L. Brezhnev with a request to intervene and prevent a catastrophe. The Soviet leader, who considered the war "the worst political mistake of the Egyptian and Syrian leaders," nevertheless intervened, ultimately giving promise to R. Nixon that if the US did not stop Israel, then "the USSR would have to urgently consider necessary unilateral steps.

Behind these lines of the Brezhnev message were all the seven Soviet airborne divisions brought into a state of increased combat readiness, and a group of ships with marines deployed to Port Said ...

But "the shame of the eye does not exist." Sadat fully fulfilled the party assigned to him in a political performance and earned the right to "a place under the American sun."

In 1977, the Egyptian president flew to Israel and delivered a speech in the Knesset. The following year, the Camp David agreements between Egypt and Israel were signed, under which Egypt received Sinai back and was recognized as a strategic partner of the United States in the region. Washington's geopolitical mnogohodovka crowned with success. It remains only to deal with the one who was the winner, and who - the vanquished.

Of course, the Soviet Union was the main loser of the October War. His “sphere of geopolitical influence” narrowed down to Syria and the Palestine Liberation Organization, However, the loyalty of the PLO, as well as the loyalty of the then Algeria, Libya, Iraq, was not particularly worth counting on. The Soviet Union lost its strategic initiative in the region, turned to the defensive tactics of "temporary alliances". Moreover, the loyalty of the “temporary allies” very generously, sometimes unjustifiably generously, was paid. By and large, since that time, the USSR has not been able to articulate clearly not so much the goals of its Middle East policy — there were no particular problems with goals during the Cold War — but rather its own interests in this region. Therefore, he failed to appreciate and did not react in any way to the two most important changes that this war brought to the world.

One of the important consequences of the October 1973 war was the political takeoff of Saudi Arabia, which allowed Wahhabism to begin its expansion throughout the world.

The “oil crisis”, which, in fact, was a reformatting of relations between transnational corporations and oil-exporting countries, allowed the Saudis to narrow the market for hydrocarbons, pushing prices to astronomical heights. In the case of Saudi Arabia, the average market price of oil extracted in its depths increased from 2,01 dollars per barrel 1 in October 1973 to 10,24 dollars to 1 in January 1975, which was a five-fold increase in 15 months. If the kingdom revenues in 1973 were 4,3 billion dollars, then in 1974-m - 22,6 billion already! Saudi Arabia has received unlimited funds to realize its long-standing ambitious dreams of a monopoly on the understanding of Islam in the scale of the Ummah - the entire community of the faithful. The Saudi Ministry of Religious Affairs printed and distributed free of charge millions of copies of the Koran, as well as a huge number of Wahhabi religious texts distributed to mosques around the world - from the African savanna to rice plantations in Indonesia and the municipal houses of European suburbs. For the first time in a fourteen-century Muslim history in all the regions where the ummah lived, the same books appeared, the same tapes came out of the same distribution networks. After just six years, the Saudis will make an open enemy of the USSR in Afghanistan. First sponsoring "jihad", and in 1984-1985. bringing down the price of oil from 30 to 12 dollars. In 1986, the price fell even lower - to 10 dollars per barrel. The surplus in the trade balance of the Soviet economy was eliminated: the USSR was now spending more than earning.

And this was made possible thanks to another, perhaps the main outcome of the “October war” and the “oil crisis” that followed.

US President R. Nixon 15 August 1971 of the year announced a formal cessation of the conversion of dollars into gold, essentially translating the world completely into a dollar standard.

Starting in the 1945 year, world oil trading was usually conducted in dollars, because the American oil companies dominated the post-war market. A sharp increase in world oil prices, therefore, meant equally the rapid increase in the demand for US dollars needed to pay for this oil.

The US Treasury Department has developed a secret agreement with the Saudi Arabian Monetary Agency. By its terms, the huge new Saudi super profits from the sale of oil were to be invested to a large extent in the settlement of US government deficits. A young Wall Street banker named David Mulford was sent to Saudi Arabia to become the main “investment adviser” at the Central Bank of Saudi Arabia to direct oil investments to the “right” banks, naturally located in London and New York .

And soon the OPEC countries announced: they will accept only US dollars as payment for their oil. The “petrodollar” emerged, which today is the main weapon of Washington.

This is what they look like, shots from the past, from the war that happened forty years ago ...
Author:
Originator:
http://www.stoletie.ru/
51 comment
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. borisjdin1957
    borisjdin1957 12 October 2013 09: 25 New
    +6
    from the Don.
    Thank you! We defeated the States of the USSR! Wherever you throw, everywhere the Januses! It’s not for nothing that it was said for our allies, the army and navy !!!
    1. aksakal
      aksakal 12 October 2013 21: 41 New
      0
      Quote: borisjdin1957
      from the Don.
      Thank you! We defeated the States of the USSR! Wherever you throw, everywhere the Januses! It’s not for nothing that it was said for our allies, the army and navy !!!
      - Hello, forum users, recently someone hotly argued for L. I. Brezhnev that the "smart" was a man! I then expressed my doubt that for me - "for me - let it remain an old sick, limited senile, completely dependent on the will of the Politburo, for this is the only way I can forgive him, Brezhnev, for getting the USSR into the" Afghan trap ".
      And here now, besides the Afghan trap, there’s such a loss in the Middle East. According to the author, it is such an important and strategic loss that after 18 years he led to the death of the USSR. Comparing the facts - I believe the author. But then I once again ask the Brezhnev’s defenders - do you seriously continue to consider Brezhnev as an intelligent person? After that "The Soviet Union failed to clearly articulate not so much the goals of its Middle East policy — there were no particular problems with the goals during the Cold War — how many interests were there in this region. Therefore, he failed to appreciate and did not react in any way to the two most important changes that this war brought to the world."?"
      I repeat again - let's consider Brezhnev to be an old sickly limited senile, completely dependent on the will of the Politburo, for this is the only way I can forgive him, Brezhnev, all the aforementioned and terrible, in general UNPARBABLE failures in foreign policy! My IMHO.
  2. Tourist Breakfast
    Tourist Breakfast 12 October 2013 10: 10 New
    -2
    The article gives away "rezunizmom". The author does not cite his sources.
    1. ivanovbg
      ivanovbg 12 October 2013 16: 57 New
      0
      Whose cow would mumble, and let the Israelis better keep silent! Read the books of Viktor OSTROVSKY at the worst, because he is yours - circumcised, kosher, all with the rank.
      1. ruslan207
        ruslan207 12 October 2013 20: 24 New
        0
        ivanovbg-Oh, there you Bulgarians are silent and constantly betray Russia, and under Stalingrad your volunteers were
      2. Tourist Breakfast
        Tourist Breakfast 12 October 2013 21: 08 New
        +2
        Whose cow would mumble, and let the Israelis better keep silent! Read the books of Viktor OSTROVSKY at the worst, because he is yours - circumcised, kosher, all with the rank.

        Theme about Israel, why should I be silent? Is there anything to add in support of the arguments presented by the author? No - pass by.
        1. Pinochet000
          Pinochet000 13 October 2013 02: 41 New
          +2
          All Russian military-political resources are full of Jews-Israelis, why would this be?
  3. smersh70
    smersh70 12 October 2013 11: 19 New
    +4
    ... these facts indicate that the country should not have constant friends .. allies .. outposts who can throw at any time ..... but should be, as Churchill said, only interests ...... .... hi
  4. Bagatur
    Bagatur 12 October 2013 11: 25 New
    12
    So! And for preserving it, the good Amer will not stop anything. The Vedas, Saddam wanted Iraqi oil not to be sold for dolars and ... "Freedom for Iraq" came. Now in the world dolari eats 5 times more than the provision of the Amirik economics. The USA lives at the expense of the whole world ... Debts are huge if China, Japan, etc. will stop buying state debt from the United States .... there will be a great crackdown ... What does a normal state do in such circumstances? Reduces consumption and, above all, military! But ... USA is an evil empire of the 70st century, they print artworks of so-called. USD and pay for all my cool life - American Dream. Unfortunately, it is expensive, it’s not only a parasitic state, but the world will pay the weight for XNUMX years dolar-colonialism !!!
  5. Apologet insane
    Apologet insane 12 October 2013 12: 48 New
    12
    Glory to the IDF! If Israel’s neighbors were not such stubborn degenerates, who were blocking their own tribesmen in Palestine, so that they would always go wild with hunger, there would have been peace in the Middle East long ago. But no, as it is, everyone is feeling bad and everyone lives head over heels in feces, and in Israel pineapples have a bite of chocolate ... Regular Arab laziness, aggressiveness and black envy will ultimately destroy the Islamic world.
  6. Pimply
    Pimply 12 October 2013 14: 06 New
    +1
    Yes, an article can only cause a smile. Conspirology on the march, Mukhin resting
    1. ivanovbg
      ivanovbg 12 October 2013 17: 03 New
      +1
      You are deeply mistaken, dear Pupyr Ogurtsovich!
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 13 October 2013 01: 15 New
        +3
        Do you think Mukhin could be better?
        1. ivanovbg
          ivanovbg 13 October 2013 13: 36 New
          0
          I tried to read Mukhin a couple of times, but it didn’t work, it’s not for me. But Viktor Ostrovsky is deeply respected as an honest author, without lies and "dusting the brains", as Mlechin does, for example, he is talented, but very manipulative and provocative. This article is very TRUE, it is an order of magnitude better than Mukhin's conspiracy theories and Leonid Mlechin's professional lies.
  7. faraon
    faraon 12 October 2013 14: 38 New
    14
    It’s good to become, fully showing the whole false essence of the eastern governments and manarchies, starting with Egypt and ending with Syria. The Middle Eastern rulers look all the same how much the wolf doesn’t feed the forest, swearing loyalty and friendship to the USSR, and behind the scenes plotting against the USSR which significantly undermined the economy of the USSR, slowed down its development both economically and militarily. I will not retell the article, but who carefully read the article will understand me.
    1. ruslan207
      ruslan207 12 October 2013 14: 54 New
      +3
      faraon -Soviet intelligence comes out all overslept that the USSR Arabs cheated
      1. faraon
        faraon 12 October 2013 15: 18 New
        +7
        Yes, she didn’t oversleep, everything was fine there, all the info came in, but there was one thing, but the Soviet government was building a new socialist revolution in the Middle East, there is such a thing as a point of no return. In this case, Egypt, headed by Anwar Sadat, addressed the USSR Political Bureau with a plan building socialism in Egypt, and later on throughout the Middle East. You probably remember the goods labeled ARE. Egypt should be something like Moscow in the Middle East., and countries such as Syria, Jordan, and other smaller regimes like fraternal Republics. Under this brand, he pulled out both military and civilian products. For many billions, the USSR built the Assuan dam as fraternal assistance. That the USSR received in return jersey dates and sour wine. I don’t remember anymore.
        But when intelligence and advisers began to report to the government about their suspicions, Sadat gathered all the military experts and representatives of the USSR and drove out of Egypt under escort, accusing the Soviets of all their sins and mistakes, this was the end of the friendship of the USSR and Egypt. By the way, Syria also times accused the USSR of allegedly supplying it with very bad weapons
        1. ruslan207
          ruslan207 12 October 2013 18: 58 New
          +3
          Yes, I don’t remember the goods from Egypt, but there were oranges from Morocco, pineapples from Cuba that's all
          1. faraon
            faraon 12 October 2013 19: 04 New
            +5
            Yes there were, Dates, and sour wine, a 0.75 bottle on the lion label, if you pour wine onto a shirt, you don’t remove real sour ink
          2. jjj
            jjj 14 October 2013 19: 53 New
            0
            Abu Simbel
        2. aksakal
          aksakal 12 October 2013 22: 01 New
          -1
          Quote: faraon
          By the way, Syria also in those days accused the USSR of allegedly supplying it with very bad weapons.
          - this is a famous episode, it was a fair accusation and it was a truth and a serious puncture in the field of innovation. Now I will explain.
          Soviet designers created a prototype of active armor, tested, made sure that it works and presented to the generals for trial. The generals took the novelty with hostility, such as "I will not allow the tank to be wrapped in explosives from the tower to the tracks, this is sabotage! The organs will take care of you!" In general, for several years it lay under the cloth. That's just in this war, the Syrians suddenly discovered that the newest Soviet T-72 tank can’t even "take" an old Israeli Sherman tank !!!! And then accusations rained down. When the Syrians nevertheless managed to conduct a competent special operation to extract and send the “living” Sherman to the USSR, Soviet designers gasped, seeing the reason for this on the Sherman’s armor, and the T-72 couldn’t knock down the Sherman. You already guessed what they saw on Sherman. Not about that now.
          And the fact that the Syrians at that time rightly blamed the Soviet Union
          Quote: faraon
          that she supposedly gave her a very bad weapon
          - and the Syrians were not to blame for this, but those generals were to blame for yelling that "I will not allow the tank to be surrounded by explosives from the tower to the tracks, this is a sabotage! The organs will take care of you!" But none of them took any responsibility for this! In general, irresponsibility for erroneous decisions is a characteristic feature in the USSR in the post-Stalin period. This applies even to Ustinov !!! Which almost closed the Tula KBP, and the famous Shipunov and Gryazev were almost sent by turners to the rocket manufacturers, because with some fright, he decided that the time for the guns was over, the future was exclusively for the rockets. Shipunov himself recalls this, though without grudge against Ustinov. But I’m not inclined to forgive Ustinov, even despite his past achievements. He would have gotten downgrades to the head of the department for new weapons in the same Ministry of Defense, which he headed. am
          And no offense to Syria. It was they who were right to be offended - the Syrian tankmen died because of the stupidity of our generals.
          1. Aaron Zawi
            Aaron Zawi 12 October 2013 23: 18 New
            +9
            Quote: aksakal
            In general, for several years it lay under the cloth. It was precisely in this war that the Syrians suddenly discovered that the latest Soviet T-72 tank couldn’t even "take" an old Israeli tank, Sherman &.

            Are you about 73 years old? What nonsense. Firstly, "Blazer" was placed in the IDF only at the MAGAHs. Secondly, in 1972 work on him in Israel had just begun. The first combat use of the war 82 g.
            By the way, by 1973, there were few Shermanov in the first echelons of the IDF. Mostly Centurions and M-60.
            1. aksakal
              aksakal 13 October 2013 01: 27 New
              +1
              Quote: Aaron Zawi
              The first combat use of the war 82 g.
              By the way, by 1973, there were few Shermanov in the first echelons of the IDF. Mostly Centurions and M-60.
              then your statement
              Quote: faraon
              By the way, Syria is also in those times accused the USSR of allegedly supplying it with very bad weapons
              - wrong, because Syria only once accused the USSR of bad weapons, and this was just the very case I described, there were no others.
        3. samoletil18
          samoletil18 12 October 2013 22: 22 New
          +7
          I ask, about three years ago, at one Arab in Sharm:
          “Do you know the Aswan Dam?”
          - Yes.
          - Who built Egypt know her?
          - America?
          When he spoke about Nasser and the USSR, but about Saddat with Israel and the United States, he was very surprised.
    2. Vovka levka
      Vovka levka 12 October 2013 15: 03 New
      +5
      Quote: faraon
      It’s good to become, fully showing the whole false essence of the eastern governments and manarchies, starting with Egypt and ending with Syria. The Middle Eastern rulers look all the same how much the wolf doesn’t feed the forest, swearing loyalty and friendship to the USSR, and behind the scenes plotting against the USSR which significantly undermined the economy of the USSR, slowed down its development both economically and militarily. I will not retell the article, but who carefully read the article will understand me.

      This is the East, what they did and are doing is fully consistent with their concepts. The problem is not them, the problem is the lack of understanding of their mentality and essence.
      1. faraon
        faraon 12 October 2013 15: 24 New
        +3
        This is the East, what they did and are doing is fully consistent with their concepts. The problem is not them, the problem is the lack of understanding of their mentality and essence.

        This is the whole problem that when concluding agreements on friendship and cooperation, the eastern mentality is not taken into account. (By the way, the relations between the faithful and the infidels are clearly described in the Karan)
        So then, as if Russia didn’t have to bite locomotomogy and supporting fraternal, Arab peoples, the pretender was already there, it’s worth considering
    3. Tourist Breakfast
      Tourist Breakfast 12 October 2013 21: 25 New
      +3
      faraon:
      It’s good to become, fully showing the whole false essence of the eastern governments and manarchies, starting with Egypt and ending with Syria.


      Pharaoh, the article is nonsense. Israel did not carry out covert mobilization. You, as an Israeli, should understand that you can broadcast on the Yom Kippur at least “Meat Cutlets”, at least “Hawa Nagila”, but no one turns it on anyway.
      Moreover, Sadat did not expel Soviet advisers - this is a myth. The truth is that the Arabs outplayed us and with the help of a carefully filed misinformation created the impression among our intelligence that there would be no war. Recently published documents prove what kind of mess we had and how much everything hung in the balance. The war was won at the cost of the heroism of ordinary soldiers who knew that there was nowhere to retreat.
      1. faraon
        faraon 12 October 2013 21: 33 New
        +3
        I have other information from the source, my uncle was an adviser to the tank division, it differs significantly from the officially accepted by the Israeli side.
        Yes, the Yom Kippur War was very difficult, but you, as an Israeli, know how the alert urging mobilization alert system works.
        1. Tourist Breakfast
          Tourist Breakfast 12 October 2013 21: 48 New
          +3
          I have other information from the source, my uncle was an adviser to the tank division, it differs significantly from the officially accepted by the Israeli side.

          Did Sadat send him before the war?

          But you, as an Israeli, know how the urgent appeal mobilization alert system works.

          The article said "on the radio." We all understand that this will not work in Yom Kippur.
          1. faraon
            faraon 12 October 2013 22: 15 New
            +4
            Yes, according to him, all of them, together with their families, were put on buses and sent to the airport under escort, According to him, the attitude changed dramatically for the worse. Within 24 hours, the entire Soviet contingent was loaded onto ships and planes. And sent to Russia. As his uncle said, this is purely his opinion. As soon as Sadat became aware that the Russians are aware of his imperial plans, namely, the declaration of war on Israel but together with Syria and Jordan but without Russians, and in the further creation of Syria and Jordan in the Arab Republic of Egypt he quickly sent all the specialists to Russia, thereby freeing his hands.
            As for the warning system, we do not live in Russia, and you know this very well, even telephones worked in it, and there was a military contingent at military bases.
            1. Tourist Breakfast
              Tourist Breakfast 13 October 2013 10: 43 New
              0
              Yes, according to him, all of them, together with their families, were put on buses and sent to the airport under escort, According to him, the attitude changed dramatically for the worse. Within 24 hours, the entire Soviet contingent was loaded onto ships and planes. And sent to Russia. As the uncle said, this is purely his opinion


              Could you ask your uncle again? I wonder when exactly the described events occurred. Because as recently as this article was here:
              http://topwar.ru/33595-sorok-let-legendy-ob-izgnanii-sovetskih-voennyh-instrukto
              rov-iz-egipta.html
              1. faraon
                faraon 13 October 2013 11: 50 New
                +1
                Well, don’t ask uncle anymore, I’m already a grandfather myself, but he told my father what was and how it really was, I went to school back then, and I was very surprised that what was written in Truth was completely gone It’s similar to what my father’s brother told me.
  8. Rapier
    Rapier 12 October 2013 14: 44 New
    +4
    The fact that there will be a war in the BV was known to many at the beginning of the summer of 73. To say that G. Meir and SB did not know about this is simply naive.
    At the beginning of summer, we, from the 724th Separate Anti-Tank Fighting Division, began to prepare our T-12 Rapira anti-tank missiles for shipment to Syria (they’re probably hitting the souls now). The jet division with the BM-21, the entire artillery regiment, combat engineer battalion, 1in tank battalion, anti-aircraft guns and many other equipment and equipment did the same thing. We sent all this by trains to Odessa and the ship went to the destination. Major General Kandalov, who had just received the star, went directly to Syria as an adviser, right from the camp collecting the cancer troops and the artillery of the corps. Actually, SAVO exposed their troops to their own detriment.
    Then it became known that a whole T-62 tank division was loaded onto the Far East at that time, which was at least 3 regiments, 100 combat and 10 combat training vehicles each.
    Could such a movement of military equipment have remained unnoticed for the USA and Israilovka? Of course not.
    1. faraon
      faraon 12 October 2013 15: 30 New
      +4
      Namely, you, as a former military man, should know that the information for 24 hours is a military secret, in the future it is another group of secrecy. In Israel, whoever needed it knew that, therefore, a hidden mobilization system was involved. And later, after confirming the information about the intention of Egypt together with Syria and Jordan attacked Israel with a preemptive strike that predetermined the outcome of the war.
  9. mithridate
    mithridate 12 October 2013 14: 55 New
    +4
    Russia must draw appropriate conclusions from miscalculations of Soviet diplomacy
  10. catapractic
    catapractic 12 October 2013 15: 16 New
    +7
    you can’t buy an Arab, you can only rent it. The main thing is not to step on the same rake a second time
  11. Turkestan
    Turkestan 12 October 2013 15: 35 New
    10
    The disadvantage of this article is the lack of analysis of the MILITARY professionalism of the opposing parties. And this topic is very interesting. Especially when you watched in YouTube stories about the special units of the Israel Defense Forces and you hear in pure Russian the perfect RUSSIAN mat. wassat
    1. faraon
      faraon 12 October 2013 15: 45 New
      12
      Well, what can you do, special units of the Tsakhal are formed from children of immigrants from the USSR and Russia. Since, according to statistics, they are the most hardy physically prepared. With high maturation, ideological education, and moral standards, laid down in USSR preschool and school institutions, probably affect and Russia
      1. ruslan207
        ruslan207 12 October 2013 19: 01 New
        +4
        all the same, they did not become family for indigenous Israelis discrimination exists against immigrants from the USSR
        1. faraon
          faraon 12 October 2013 19: 12 New
          +5
          I don’t know what to tell you, I have no complaints about the native Israelis, the Ethiopians, or the Orthodox, I won’t say that everything is fine, but this is life, as in any other place its own rules, its own laws. And again, if here on the forum we all together speakers of the great and mighty Russian language cannot come to some kind of mutual respect for the opposition that we can talk about people with different life positions and mentality in relation to us.
          1. ruslan207
            ruslan207 12 October 2013 19: 42 New
            +4
            And how the police of the elderly defenseless in Ashkelon beat with impunity and there are many such examples
            1. faraon
              faraon 12 October 2013 19: 53 New
              +3
              You, as a resident of Israel, are well aware that there is a court and lawyers for these actions, and the police also have an organization called makhash that investigates these crimes. But if you sit in silence and sniff at a rag, then these incidents will be repeated all the time. For example, I live in a city where there is not everything that you write. But I can’t be responsible for everything, and leash for the state of affairs in my city.
              If you are interested in where I live, I can write to you in PM.
              1. ruslan207
                ruslan207 12 October 2013 20: 21 New
                -1
                No, I’m not at all interested in where you live.
                1. faraon
                  faraon 12 October 2013 20: 25 New
                  +6
                  Well, here's the thing, as they say. I have nothing to hide.
        2. aksakal
          aksakal 12 October 2013 22: 17 New
          -4
          Quote: ruslan207
          all the same, they did not become family for indigenous Israelis discrimination exists against immigrants from the USSR

          - at the same time, the Russian-speakers themselves quite successfully discriminate against black Israelis in Israel, a cool video can be seen on YouTube and was even shown on the Newsru website. com
          There, a Russian-speaking resident of Israel very expressively and very artistically pounded a black resident of the same country. laughing laughing
          Tell me, how much is today's Israel now similar to medieval India? An analogue of the "brahmin" caste are the natives of which countries? Are immigrants from the USSR above the situation by analogy with the “untouchable caste” in India? How much up a notch? For two? In theory, they should be at the level of "brahmins", because The USSR played a key role in the creation of Israel. But why not at the Brahmin level?
          1. Tourist Breakfast
            Tourist Breakfast 13 October 2013 10: 38 New
            +4
            Tell me, how much is today's Israel now similar to medieval India? An analogue of the "brahmin" caste are the natives of which countries?


            Tell me, have you stopped drinking vodka in the morning?
            1. In the reeds
              In the reeds 13 October 2013 15: 44 New
              +2
              Yes, he is still sleeping, his horse writes.
          2. ruslan207
            ruslan207 13 October 2013 19: 09 New
            +1
            Kazakhs, all Russians have left you, you understand what I mean
          3. Dezzed
            Dezzed 15 October 2013 20: 34 New
            0
            aksakal!

            "Are immigrants from the USSR above the situation by analogy with the" untouchable caste "in India?"

            untouchables in India is an example of a caste that bury the dead.

            a photo
      2. Tourist Breakfast
        Tourist Breakfast 12 October 2013 21: 27 New
        +2
        Well, what can you do, special units of the Tsakhal are formed from children of immigrants from the USSR and Russia. Since, according to statistics, they are the most hardy physically prepared. With high maturation, ideological education, and moral standards, laid down in USSR preschool and school institutions, probably affect and Russia

        This is not true. The percentage of immigrants from the USSR in special forces is the same as in other parts.
        1. faraon
          faraon 12 October 2013 21: 39 New
          +5
          Not quite basically about 50% of immigrants from the former republics of the USSR, 30-35 percent from Europe, and 10-15% of immigrants from the east.
          The question is not where you are from, but the question is to get into the special unit, you have to go through a very difficult selection, Statistics say that a larger percentage of those who are selected are from Russia and Germany. These are not my speculations, these are statistics.
          As for the other parts, the percentage is almost the same, here YOU are completely right.
          1. Tourist Breakfast
            Tourist Breakfast 12 October 2013 21: 44 New
            +1
            These are not my thoughts, these are statistics.


            Could you provide a link to this statistics?
            1. faraon
              faraon 12 October 2013 22: 20 New
              0
              Check out the Sayeret Matkal cheek.
              1. Tourist Breakfast
                Tourist Breakfast 12 October 2013 22: 56 New
                +1
                Check out the Sayeret Matkal cheek.


                Give a link, I’ll come.
  12. Turkestan
    Turkestan 12 October 2013 16: 34 New
    +6
    One of the leaders of the Israel Defense Forces said. Soldiers of the Israel Defense Forces come from the USSR and the CIS. PIECE GOODS. There is something to think about.
    1. faraon
      faraon 12 October 2013 19: 01 New
      +8
      See what the motto is; "if not us, then who?" He appeared in the Israel Defense Forces after the children of the repatriates who went through the hot spots in which the USSR was grown up, It’s in Russia we are Jews, here we are Russian, and this leaves its mark. As in life, so in the service. And this is a serious motivation. And the latter, probably, it will seem funny to you, but the Russian-speaking soldiers of the Tsakhal consider themselves direct receivers of their fathers and grandfathers. You did not see this when the tanks entered Lebanon, Gaza. Along with the Israeli flag was either the Russian or St. Andrew's flag.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. faraon
          faraon 12 October 2013 21: 54 New
          +6
          And what irritates you so much, For example, we don’t annoy you when Russian is next to the Israeli flag. Or Andreevsky. On the contrary, pride takes our boys ahead and we know that they will not fail. Many of them have Russian citizenship and they don’t hide it , That's why in the videos that you occasionally watch, you hear the Russian mat. \
          So dear, do not worry about the military honor of Russia in the mud do not trample. But only increase.
      2. datur
        datur 12 October 2013 21: 50 New
        +1
        Quote: faraon
        See what the motto is; "if not us, then who?" He appeared in the Israel Defense Forces after the children of the repatriates who went through the hot spots in which the USSR was grown up, It’s in Russia we are Jews, here we are Russian, and this leaves its mark. As in life, so in the service. And this is a serious motivation. And the latter, probably, it will seem funny to you, but the Russian-speaking soldiers of the Tsakhal consider themselves direct receivers of their fathers and grandfathers. You did not see this when the tanks entered Lebanon, Gaza. Along with the Israeli flag was either the Russian or St. Andrew's flag.
  13. ivanovbg
    ivanovbg 12 October 2013 17: 11 New
    +3
    An excellent article, thank you very much, opened my eyes to many of the nuances of politics in the Middle East, which until now I understood crookedly, but could not explain them to myself. At the same time, I understood why the West worships Kissinger, because he can tell them all of the Middle East on a silver platter, a “falsifier” x * evy!
  14. Rapier
    Rapier 12 October 2013 18: 07 New
    +3
    By the way about Kissenger - this criminal is on conscience (if there is one?) Of which millions of Vietnamese! Here for them, he received the Nobel.
    Secondly, being the Secretary of State under the drunken Nixon, he arbitrarily brought the US strategic forces to readiness for “Orange”, the last before the “red”, in which everything that flies with nuclear weapons is launched. Thus, on one night he put 250 million Americans on the scales, on the other was Israel. Isn’t it an equivalent exchange ?! Millions of 40 Americans might not wake up that night if Lenya were a little younger and more aggressive.
  15. werewolf
    werewolf 12 October 2013 20: 12 New
    +4
    Quote: faraon
    Yes there were, Dates, and sour wine, a 0.75 bottle on the lion label, if you pour wine onto a shirt, you don’t remove real sour ink

    The wine was called ABU SIM BEL - which in our opinion BABA SIMA
    1. faraon
      faraon 12 October 2013 20: 19 New
      +2
      I don’t remember, but it seems to me that Abu Sim Bel was something like a Roma. Well, in translation Abu is a father, and then I don’t know there are no such words in Arabic, probably some kind of phrase. But there were also NIFERTITY cigarettes
      1. werewolf
        werewolf 12 October 2013 20: 34 New
        +3
        .And there were still cigarettes NIFERTITY

        In the people "DEATH TO THE SADDAT"
        1. faraon
          faraon 12 October 2013 21: 16 New
          +2
          maybe I won’t argue, but I still met this wine, in the Navy in the 80s, a rare
  16. mizantrop22
    mizantrop22 12 October 2013 21: 29 New
    +3
    Actually the 73 year war is a mirror image of the 67 year war. The Arabs tried to beat Israel with their own weapons, that is, a sudden blow, and Israel did not begin to deliver a preemptive strike, as in the year 67. Gold Meir speaks about this on the commission, and for some reason the author is looking for some secret meaning in her words. But Arabs are not Jews and vice versa. Here is the main outcome of the war.
  17. Yuri Y.
    Yuri Y. 12 October 2013 21: 45 New
    +3
    Sadat's betrayal of the Arabs is now perceived calmly after Gorbach merged the USSR. From the filing of apparently the same persons. Traitors have always been considered the lowest stage of personality development. Article plus, it seems the information presented is close to the truth.
    Quote: faraon
    Yes there were, Dates, and sour wine, a 0.75 bottle on the lion label, if you pour wine onto a shirt, you don’t remove real sour ink

    I remember the dates, my brother ate them in my childhood (we are from Siberia, and here it’s exotic) I got to the hospital. Just that time.
  18. alone
    alone 12 October 2013 21: 50 New
    +5
    no matter what the intrigues of the belligerents were, the outcome was disastrous for the entire Arab Middle East. The enormous resources, a thousand and a thousand tanks, planes, armored combat vehicles, artillery, and rocket launchers did not help the Arabs defeat Israel. All this remained on the battlefield burned and intercepted. tsahalom. yes, Israel also suffered considerable losses. but the outcome of the war finally brought Egypt and Jordan out of the camp of the irreconcilable, leaving Syria virtually face to face against Israel. The events of the 67th and 73rd are the foundation of the situation that has developed today in the Middle East . today in the region there is no longer any force that can oppose the state of Israel. yes, no matter how people regard Israel, Israel won the region. The only danger is the Syrian arsenal of chemical weapons is already being destroyed. for those who are screaming the victory of the Russian diplomacy should also be shouted that the destruction of Kho is the strategic victory of Israel, which disarmed its main enemy without the slightest in and. hi
  19. datur
    datur 12 October 2013 22: 03 New
    0
    [quote = datur] [quote = faraon] See what the motto is; "if not us, then who?" He appeared in the Israel Defense Forces after the children of the repatriates who went through the hot spots in which the USSR was grown up, It’s in Russia we are Jews, here we are Russian, and this leaves its mark. As in life, so in the service. And this is a serious motivation. And the latter, probably, it will seem ridiculous to you, but the Russian-speaking soldiers of the Tsakhal consider themselves direct receivers of their fathers and grandfathers. You did not see this when the tanks entered Lebanon, Gaza. Along with the Israeli flag was either the Russian or St. Andrew’s flag! To the boys of the children's artillery school, SAY- THEY Fought FOR GREAT ISRAEL !! YES AND TO ALL the dead and living soldiers SPECIALTY-they fought for the Jews !!! negative stop fool laughing
    1. faraon
      faraon 12 October 2013 22: 33 New
      +4
      The question is not who they are fighting the question of with whom and for what. In this case, our soldiers, like the Russians, are fighting for a house, a family, a country, with such bearded kami who don't give a damn about everything. If they don’t shoot, they will destroy everything on their own paths like that locust, And is it not enough for you that these ki have done with Syria.
      As for the Jews in Afghanistan, I had sergeant Joseph Egudaev in 1986, he died the hero’s death, he covered our retreat. So, dear, we don’t need to measure everyone with one measure and put up labels.
      Well, the fact that Unas is the motto "if not us then someone" then in our conditions it has not lost its relevance.
      Yes, send greetings to the DShB guys and special forces soldiers. Give them the god of health and prosperity, and most importantly, that they would return home safe and sound. So tell them from Israel they will understand.
      1. Turkestan
        Turkestan 13 October 2013 09: 33 New
        +1
        So we came to a discussion of the concept of what is the MOTHERLAND and the defense of the MOTHERLAND. Why is a Russian-speaking soldier a PIECE for TSKhAL and is it obliged to defend its historical Motherland? And the million orthodox Jews who shout the most about the greatness of Israel and its people do not want to defend their homeland and serve in the army. Isn't that why so many young women are serving in the Israel Defense Forces. And the disease of excuse from the army existing in the CIS countries has taken root in Israel. Do not you think that the main reason for the current problems in the Army and the people of Israel is the lack of a CONSTITUTION of the State of Israel.
        1. faraon
          faraon 13 October 2013 12: 38 New
          +3
          The problem is not the adoption of the constitution, it is the Torah (the Old Testament) in Israel, which states that all Jews must defend their country, and if one Israeli tribe does not go to war, this is the Levitical tribe. they should guard the temple and keep order within the state. As for the Coen high priests, they were an exception, they were not transferred to service in peacetime, but in the case of war they should be in the forefront. (something like commissioners)
          Now the second: As regards service in the Army, the Israel Defense Forces is a people's army. And the attitude of the state and people of Israel towards the soldier is very good, as sons and daughters serve in it. The country is very small and almost everyone knows each other here. The army is recruiting on a voluntary basis, service in the army, and even in combat units, is held in high esteem. Yes and in the future there are many benefits to those who have served in the army. As for the religious part of the population, there are directions and trends. It is not true that religious do not serve army, in the Israeli army there is a battalion called "Nahal horedim" there are ultra-orthodox religious youth, both boys and girls. There conditions are created for them corresponding to their status. The service in these units is exactly the same as in the linear units there is no difference.
          As for the army as a whole, you yourself probably understand very well that everything depends on the country's economy. That is, it should be about + -10% of the population of the Israeli army in the order of 850 troops. Therefore, there is no particular strain with the call. Who wants to serve who He doesn’t want to go to alternative services in hospitals, kindergartens, schools.
          The Israeli army is multinational in its structure there are Bedouin units with their commanders, Druze with their commanders, there is not a larger percentage of Israeli Arabs.
          Women in the Israeli army are not just a special necessity, but in my opinion a tribute to the time, or let’s call it emancipation. You can meet commanders and tank drivers, captains of patrol ships, pilots, rocket launchers, in general there is a presence of women everywhere. in auxiliary positions.
          In Israel, not everything is perfect, don’t think that everything is white and fluffy, but there’s practically no such thing as mowing the army from the army. It’s a very big thing. First of all, if you relate to a soldier, he knows that he will not be forgotten and will be exchanged for him many terrorists, they will steal it, but they will do everything in order to return it home. (This is one of the Torah commandments for the redemption of prisoners of war) The second motivation of the soldiers receives a decent salary, and at the end of the service a gift from the state, which he can use at his discretion. Well and the last army is a ticket to life.
          1. Turkestan
            Turkestan 14 October 2013 00: 05 New
            +1
            Do not you think that a million Orthodox Jews who are nowhere working and not serving in the army living on benefits for 7 million Israeli citizens is too much.
            Do not you think that the centuries-old war that is going on in the Middle East is the result of Mahrova - nationalistic religiosity bordering on the prime fanaticism of the population.
            Formally, the Constitution in Israel is absent. The role of the Constitution of the State of Israel is fulfilled by the so-called Code of Basic Laws, which regulates the democratic nature of the Israeli state, parliamentary power, as well as all the basic laws of the NOT TORA. In addition, the Code of Basic Laws of Israel defines the basic laws that guarantee fundamental civil liberties. According to the Declaration of Independence, Israel should have adopted the constitution shortly after the proclamation of the state, why is it not taken for so long? Maybe the lack of a constitution is the reason for the excessive aggressiveness of the religious and secular elite of Israel
            The Israeli army is multinational, this is true, but until recently, the dead defenders of the motherland were not buried purebred Jews not in the army cemetery next to their dead comrades.
            You know, a woman is a guardian of a family home, she has no place in the army. Nature is not that, they must be protected and worn on the hands.
            And as regards withdrawing from the army, open Russian-language sites, you will be surprised to find out how many people want to do this in Israel. And how many people are imprisoned for this crime.
            But in general, everything is the same as ours. Nothing new
            1. faraon
              faraon 14 October 2013 15: 15 New
              +1
              Good afternoon!
              It’s rare to meet a person on the forum with whom you can have a normal dialogue.
              I will be happy to answer your questions.
              You write that the search is a million Orthodox Jews sitting on benefits from the state.
              Yes, it is so difficult and the secular part of the population is not happy with this. But as I said in the comments above, it does not contradict the Torah (the basic law for the Jews). There everything is clearly laid out since ancient times. The law states that (I in brief and the most basic ) that in Israel there are twelve clans, or clans (tribes), they are all distributed, that is, each has his own allotment of land. And there is a family of Coenes of high priests (ministers of a religious cult) who don’t have land allotted, they live by brushing tithing (donations) of the whole nation to the temple. So we pay taxes (we give tithes to the orthodox sector) The question is, is there much less Koenov, as in any other society, much more. As for the tribe of high priests, they don’t need these benefits. They donate from Jewish communities abroad of quite impressive sizes. Religious educational institutions are opened for this money. But according to the law of Israel, a certain amount is allocated for each student the amount and this amount goes to orthodox children.
              Regarding benefits from the state, believe me it’s not millions., But only to cover the minimum needs. Therefore, they study in yeshivas receive a scholarship and give a little more detail.
              1. Turkestan
                Turkestan 14 October 2013 18: 19 New
                0
                In their book The War Within, Yuval Elizur and Lawrence Malkin, the Haredim win on a much larger scale. According to researchers, after the Jewish state was created in 1948, "the ultra-Orthodox were allowed to become a privileged community in it, completely immersed in their own culture, which prescribes isolation and a specific, often distorted view of the world." Israel - a country of startups, high technology and renowned universities - has simultaneously become a country of a huge number of state-subsidized rabbis who deny the theory of evolution and believe that teaching mathematics is a sin.
                This state of affairs has serious consequences. The ever-growing community of fundamentalists, which are becoming more radical, has become a political bloc capable of manipulating the Israeli party system - but not even hiding its contemptuous attitude towards secular democracy. Elizur and Malkin do not dwell on this issue, so we need to clarify that this trend carries a big risk. If the size and influence of the Haredim continue to increase, the most intelligent and talented of secular Israelites, the descendants of the men and women who built this country, will leave Israel, leaving it to the mercy of the rabbis with their petty, misogynistic and obscurantist interpretation of the laws of Judaism.
                David Ben-Gurion - Israeli George Washington - was a brilliant statesman and was well aware of the importance of compromises. But, nevertheless, now the country is suffering from the consequences of the compromise that he made in 1948 with the leaders of the Haredim community, which at that time was very tiny. Ben-Gurion, mainly out of sentimental considerations, then promised the Haredim who studied in Yeshivas, exemption from universal military service. There was a certain logic behind this step: the Holocaust destroyed most of the ultra-orthodox European Jews, and the 400 Yeshiot workers who were exempted from the call were, from the point of view of the secular leaders of Israel, an “endangered species” - people whose beliefs and customs would soon drown in the modern culture.
                Subsequently, however, fundamentalism spread throughout the Middle East, and the ultra-Orthodox were able to reinforce their position again. However, could it have been otherwise if the Haredim most earnestly obeyed the command "be fruitful and multiply"? I must say that they cope well with this: it is difficult to say exactly how many haredim lived in Israel at the time of its foundation, but most likely they made up about 1% of the population. Now there are about 10% of them. The political parties representing their interests deftly use the Israeli parliamentary system, joining the ruling coalitions to squeeze out subsidies and allowances from the authorities. At any given moment, approximately 60 thousand Yeshbotniks are considered exempted from conscription, and many of them spend their whole lives in the Yesh system. A furious struggle is going on around their right not to serve in the army, which has become one of the reasons for the collapse of Netanyahu's past ruling coalition. Only a minority of male Haredim work (the rest are only studying the Talmud). It is not surprising that all this pretty much depletes the country's resources.
                The disproportionate role that the Haredim play in the public and political life of Israel also strengthens the position of another form of Jewish religious extremism - the settlement movement, which serves as the core of the political direction, to which Ami Pedahzur’s book, The Triumph of Israeli Right-wing Radicals, is dedicated Israel's Radical Right "). Although the Haredim and the settlers look at Jewish identity differently, over the past two decades, their political alliance has determined decisions that have been made on virtually all key external and internal issues, including the issue of peace and war.
                1. faraon
                  faraon 15 October 2013 09: 54 New
                  +1
                  Israel - a country of startups, high technology and renowned universities - has simultaneously become a country of a huge number of state-subsidized rabbis who deny the theory of evolution and believe that teaching mate
                  Mathematics is a sin.
                  Good morning!
                  Turkestan, believe me, not everything is as gloomy as the above authors of articles describe. First of all, Israel has a very liberal society. The authors correctly noted that those who keep the commandments (haredim, orthodox, ultra-orthooxes) they live apart from their community, but this does not mean that You can’t go to them in the quarter without a pile on your head. From you and your traveler there will be one requirement to be modestly non-provocative and that’s all that is required of you.
                  I believe that you can not blame people for their choice, right or wrong. In your understanding, this is about their choice.
                  As for education, at present, according to the law on universal education, religious schools of all directions are obliged to provide general education with subsequent passing exams, general subjects are taught according to a special program, an adapted program for religious educational institutions. If the teaching staff sabotages this program, then the school is removed with state subsidies.
                  So whoever wants to study, he studies, so who wants to work he works.
                  Who wants to teach Torah for life teaches but lives on sponsorship donations, this is the situation. And as for the manual, believe it is so miserable that you don’t even need to talk about it.
                  Yes, here's another thing, yeshiva is exactly the same institution and they pass exams in the same way. Those who teach the Torah in terms of life are scholars.
                2. faraon
                  faraon 15 October 2013 10: 32 New
                  +1
                  If the size and influence of the Haredim continue to increase, the most intelligent and talented of secular Israelites, the descendants of the men and women who built this country, will leave Israel, leaving it to the mercy of the rabbis with their petty, misogynistic and obscurantist interpretation of the laws of Judaism.
                  Take my word for it, not everything is so scary. The obligatory program in schools is already bearing fruit, all possible courses are open for haredim, everything is done so that they flow into the labor market. Now they are in all sectors of the economy. Studying at universities, colleges.
                  Israel is a country of free citizens, and there is no coercion here, you can move around the world freely, learn to live and work, no one will blame you for returning at any time, and this is not the reason to leave the country because of religious dominance. we don’t intersect unless at work or in the hospital, they live by their own rules, that is, a certain compromise is reached in society.
                  You ask for the role of the Haredim in politics, and what is wrong with that they raise questions that concern the entire people of Israel. All that they require from the provincial government is all this automatically projected onto the secular population of the country. This applies to all life comparisons.
                  A furious struggle is going on around their right not to serve in the army, which has become one of the reasons for the collapse of Netanyahu's past ruling coalition. Only a minority of male Haredim work (the rest are only studying the Talmud). It is not surprising that all this pretty much depletes the country's resources.
                  It is not a matter of serving in the army, the question was whether the orthodox population of the country would benefit society.
                  I wrote to you earlier regarding the army and alternative service, and also why the Torah speaks about it (the basic law of a religious person who obeys all commandments). But now I’ll add from myself whether they are needed in the army under the conditions that they put forward (true a small part of them), everything was settled by a compromise called an alternative service.
                  Well, the last religious Zionism. According to the law, all the land of the state of Israel is recorded in the land register before they begin to build any village. This is agreed at all levels, including the army. And only after all the approvals are brought in temporary houses, the construction of the village begins. Nobody is engaged in seizure. For example, I live in a settlement. And I will not feel discomfort. I take myself to the right. But this does not mean that I grab a rifle and start shooting Arabs,
                  In general, if you are interested in my information, write to me in PM (mail) here on the forum and I will answer all your questions.
  20. Yuri Y.
    Yuri Y. 12 October 2013 22: 35 New
    +2
    Quote: datur
    YES AND TO ALL the dead and living soldiers SPECIALTY-they fought for the Jews !!!

    You see something you do not understand.
  21. Aaron Zawi
    Aaron Zawi 13 October 2013 00: 09 New
    +6
    ETERNAL MEMORY OF HEROES Fallen FOR THE FREEDOM OF HIS MOTHERLAND!
    Table: AOI air personnel losses in 1973 year
    # Etc. P. Date of death Status Specialty First name Last name First name Last name (Hebrew) Cause of death Front Esc. Aircraft type
    1 P-1 6 Oct killed pilot Hanan Eitan חנן איתן Air Defense Syria 109 Skyhawk
    2 P-2 6 Oct killed pilot Ehud Seden אהוד סדן Egypt
    3 P-3 7 Oct killed pilot Shimon Ash שמעון אש ZUR Egypt 115 Skyhawk
    4 P-4 7 Oct killed pilot Liby Doler ליבי דולר Air Defense Egypt 102 Skyhawk
    5 P-5 7 Oct killed pilot Ishkar Neve (Yonesh) יששכר (יונש) נווה Air Defense Egypt 119 Phantom
    6 W-1 killed navigator David Zilberman דוד זילברמן
    7 P-6 7 Oct killed pilot Ehud Hankin אהוד חנקין Air defense Syria Phantom
    8 W-2 killed navigator Shaul Levy (Aron) שאול (אהרון) לוי
    9 P-7 7 Oct killed pilot Ami Lahav עמי להב
    10 P-8 7 Oct killed pilot Doron Smadar דורון סמדר Syria air defense
    11 P-9 7 Oct killed pilot Zvi Horowitz צבי הורוביץ SAM Syria
    12 P-10 7 Oct killed pilot Rafael Leo רפאל לב Air Defense Syria Skyhawk
    13 P-11 7 Oct killed pilot Yitzhak Kopel (Leader) יצחק (קידר) קופל Air Defense Egypt
    14 P-12 7 Oct. killed pilot Levy Bar-Ziv לוי בר-זיו ZUR Egypt Skyhawk
    15 P-13 7 Oct killed pilot Moshe Estraicher משה אסטרייכר Egypt Skyhawk
    16 P-14 7 Oct killed pilot Shay Avital שי אביטל ZUR Egypt 102 Skyhawk
    17 P-15 7 Oct killed pilot Israel Rosenblum ישראל רוזנבלום Syria
    18 P-16 7 Oct killed pilot Yoram Lapidot יורם לפידות Egypt
    19 P-17 8 Oct killed pilot Zvi Bashan (Bornstein) צבי (בורנשטיין) בשן SAM Skyhawk Egypt
    20 P-18 8 Oct killed pilot Gidon Ben-Eliezer גדעון בן-אליעזר Egypt
    21 P-19 8 Oct killed pilot Uri Shaani אורי שעני Air Defense Egypt Phantom
    22 W-3 perished navigator Dror Yafe דרור יפה
    23 P-20 9 Oct killed pilot Zululon Amizi זבולון אמיצי Air Defense Egypt Phantom
    24 W-4 killed navigator Zeev Yogev (Finger) זאב (פינגר) יוגב
    25 P-21 9 Oct killed pilot Dov Shapir (Spitz) דב (שפיץ) שפיר Air defense Syria 119 Phantom
    26 --- Captured by the navigator Jacob Jacobi יעקב יעקובי
    27 P-22 9 oct. Pilot David Dotan (Dimant) דוד (דימנט) דותן FROG-7 Syria 110 based
    28 P-23 9 Oct killed pilot Yaniv Litani יניב ליטני Egypt
    29 P-24 9 Oct. Killed pilot
    (commander of the 116 Squadron) Ehud Shelah (Schwartz) אהוד (שורץ) שלח Air Defense Egypt Skyhawk
    30 P-25 9 Oct. Killed pilot
    (base commander Ramat David) Arlozor (Zorik) Leo ארלוזור (זוריק) לב Air Defense Egypt Skyhawk
    31 P-26 9 Oct killed pilot Shacked (Mendel) Mario שקד (מנדל) מריו ZUR Egypt Skyhawk
    32 P-27 10 Oct. Yehuda Ben-Ari pilot died יהודה בן-ארי SAM Syria Skyhawk
    33 P-28 11 Oct killed pilot Yaakov Bitsur (Biatetsk) יעקב (ביאטצקי) ביצור SAM Syria 100 Do-27
    34 --- perished intelligence observer Benjamin Samuel בנימין סמואל
    35 --- killed intelligence observer Eliyahu Agashi אליהו אגסי
    36 --- air surveillance officer Shalom-Yitzhak Yudkevich died שלום-יצחק יודקוביץ
    37 P-29 11 Oct killed pilot Jonathan Ophir (Hoffman) יונתן (הופמן) אופיר aerial combat Egypt Phantom
    38 W-5 died navigator Eran Cohen ערן כהן
    39 P-30 11 Oct killed pilot Yitzhak Ofer יצחק עופר aerial combat Syria Skyhawk
    40 --- 11 Oct saved pilot Avner Cohen אבנר כהן Zur Syria Bell-205
    41 P-31 killed pilot Gad Kline גד קליין
  22. The comment was deleted.
  23. Aaron Zawi
    Aaron Zawi 13 October 2013 00: 43 New
    +1
    42 --- rescued flight engineer Nadav נדב
    43 --- rescued doctor 669
    44 --- rescued fighter 669
    45 --- rescued fighter 669
    46 --- rescued fighter 669
    47 P-32 12 Oct. Killed pilot (crew commander) David Megel (Goldenberg) דוד (גולדנברג) מגל Air Defense Egypt 118 CH-53 (Yasur)
    48 P-33 pilot died (co-pilot) Eleezer Nahalon אלעזר נחלון
    49 --- mechanic Avram Arad (Axelerad) אברהם (אקסלרד) ארד died
    50 --- killed operational officer Shaul Schuster погибאול שוסטר
    51 --- died electrician Baruch Manor ברוך מנור
    52 --- 12 Oct killed counter interception Raziel Droyan רזיאל דרויאן SAM missile helicopter
    53 --- perished electronic systems technician Avi Lazar אבי לזר
    54 P-34 12 Oct. killed pilot Israel Baster (Bar) ישראל (בר) בסטר Syria
    55 P-35 13 oct. Pilot died (commander of the 101 squadron) Abraham (Avi) Lanir אברהם לניר Air defense Syria 101 Mirage
    56 P-36 13 Oct killed pilot Rani Ofri רני עפרי Air Defense Egypt Skyhawk
    57 --- scout observer Shafer Yehuda rescued שפר יהודה
    58 --- 15 Oct killed pilot Gabriel Saar (Friedman) גבריאל (פרידמן) סער Air Defense Syria Skyhawk
    59 --- 15 Oct captured by the pilot Benjamin Livne בינימין ליבנה Air Defense Egypt Phantom
    60 W-6 perished navigator Rahamim Sofer רחמים סופר
    61 P-38 16 Oct killed pilot Manachem Chestnut מנחם קשטן ZUR Egypt Mirage
    62 P-39 16 Oct killed pilot Manachem Eyal מנחם איל Air Defense Egypt Skyhawk
    63 P-40 17 oct killed pilot Gad Samok גד סמוק Egypt 201 Phantom
    64 W-7 17 Oct killed navigator Baruch-Ari Golan ברוך-ארי גולן Egypt 201 Phantom
    65 P-41 17 Oct killed pilot (crew commander) Marom (Mening) Max מקס (מנינג) מרום Egypt Bell-205
    66 --- captured pilot (co-pilot) Raanan Elran רענן אלרן
    67 --- died air ambulance Mark Schwartz מארק שוורץ
    68 --- died mechanic Avram Sharon (Schind) אברהם (שינד) שרון
    69 --- Doctor Dr. Reuven Sokolovsky died ד"ר ראובן סוקולובסקי
    70 P-42 17 Oct killed pilot Maoz Poraz מעוז פורז Egypt Skyhawk
    71 P-43 18 Oct killed pilot Gershon Fonk גרשון פונק Egypt
    72 P-44 21 Oct. pilot Eitan Lahav died איתן להב went into a tailspin Syria Skyhawk
    73 --- 21 Oct captured by the pilot Itamar Barnea איתמר ברנע aerial combat Syria 201 Phantom
    74 W-8 perished navigator Gil heran גיל הרן
    75 P-45 24 oct. Pilot died (crew commander) Ofer Eyali עפר איילי Egypt 118 CH-53 (Yasur)
    76 P-46 pilot died (co-pilot) Miron Granot (Greenstein) מירון (גרינשטיין) גרנות
    77 --- died mechanic Reuven Feldman ראובן פלדמן
    78 --- died mechanic Schwaid Zvi צבי (שווייד) שבייד
    79 --- the orderly man Jacob (Jackie) Angelo יעקב (ג'קי) אנג'לו died
    80 --- Doctor Uri-Israel Friend died ד"ר אורי-ישראל פרנד
    81 --- the orderly Yahizkel (Hesi) Osczinski died יחזקאל (חזי) אושינסקי
    82 --- killed an infantry officer (medical student) Rami-Avram Goren רמי-אברהם גורן

    Notes:
    The above table shows the loss of Israeli air force personnel, including primary and auxiliary air personnel, as well as specialists of other specialties.
  24. unknown
    unknown 13 October 2013 09: 52 New
    +1
    Regarding "Rezunism"
    Of the official historians, only Meltiukhov tried to explain the defeat of 1941, when the huge, mobilized, superior German in number of military equipment and weapons several times, not inferior in their quality, the army by the beginning of 1942 lost about 4 million people and almost all weapons alone and technique.
    1. Tourist Breakfast
      Tourist Breakfast 13 October 2013 10: 36 New
      +1
      Regarding "Rezunism"
      Of the official historians, only Meltiukhov tried to explain the defeat of 1941, when the huge, mobilized, superior German in number of military equipment and weapons several times, not inferior in their quality, the army by the beginning of 1942 lost about 4 million people and almost all weapons alone and technique.


      It will be offtopic to begin such a discussion now. But the Germans had superiority in the main - the most advanced tactics at that time.
      1. Dezzed
        Dezzed 15 October 2013 20: 46 New
        0
        excuse me

        but didn’t the Soviet army show “the most advanced tactics at that time” near Khalkhin’s hill? (autumn 1939)
  25. In the reeds
    In the reeds 13 October 2013 12: 35 New
    +3
    The Bundeswehr Lieutenant General was surrounded by Israeli officers accompanying him. Left - houses of the Druze village against the backdrop of Mount Hermon. On the right, in the south, even without binoculars, one could see the ruins of the Syrian city of Kuneitra. And down in the valley ... no, it's unbelievable! Hundreds of Soviet T-55 and T-62 tanks he knew, excellent tanks that the Syrians were armed with. Cemetery of tanks that were burned, wrecked ... The lieutenant general broke the long silence:

    “You are a strange nation, Jews.” And what do you call defeat? Yes, if we Germans destroyed so many tanks in one battle, we would have celebrated an unprecedented victory over the centuries.

    What would the general say, he know how these tanks were destroyed, by what forces. By what forces. Would he believe that this is the work of one tank battalion left without infantry, without the support of artillery and aircraft? However, the battalion commander himself, 29-year-old Lieutenant Colonel Avigdor Kahalani, understood that a miracle had happened, that it was difficult, after analyzing everything that had happened, to explain the unheard-of victory of the battalion only with the heroism and skill of his tankmen ...
  26. specKFOR
    specKFOR 13 October 2013 13: 30 New
    +3
    Yeah. very interesting article. I think that after this it’s not worth talking-Amerikosy are stupid and we will "make" them all !!!
  27. xomaNN
    xomaNN 13 October 2013 18: 27 New
    0
    A story or someone more material judged Sadat in his own way. His super-flexibility in politics cost him his existence. And rightly so!
  28. Altona
    Altona 13 October 2013 21: 15 New
    +1
    The article is continuous journalism ... For me, it is uninformative ... I just re-read articles on the Doomsday War of 1971-1973 and the Lebanon War of 1982 ... The East is a delicate matter ... It's not so simple ...
  29. werewolf
    werewolf 13 October 2013 22: 15 New
    0
    Quote: ignoto
    Regarding "Rezunism"
    Of the official historians, only Meltiukhov tried to explain the defeat of 1941, when the huge, mobilized, superior German in number of military equipment and weapons several times, not inferior in their quality, the army by the beginning of 1942 lost about 4 million people and almost all weapons alone and technique.

    recommend http://www.urantia-s.com/library/solonin/anatomy
  30. werewolf
    werewolf 13 October 2013 22: 36 New
    0
    Quote: faraon
    I don’t remember, but it seems to me that Abu Sim Bel was something like a Roma. Well, in translation Abu is a father, and then I don’t know there are no such words in Arabic, probably some kind of phrase. But there were also NIFERTITY cigarettes

    http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/5902/36122351.68/0_8ca1e_5d8dca7e_XL
  31. mr_Doom
    mr_Doom 13 October 2013 22: 55 New
    0
    History does not know the subjunctive mood, BUT, if Golda had not been afraid for her reputation / career and Israel would have attacked, then she would have won because a six-day war wouldn’t work out, and there wouldn’t be enough resources for more. ps the attack was known in 2 days (reconnaissance, transporters, Nasser's son-in-law, yes, and logically)
  32. Ols76
    Ols76 14 October 2013 04: 36 New
    +1
    Good article, I liked
  33. faraon
    faraon 14 October 2013 15: 34 New
    +3
    Quote: Turkestan
    Do not you think that the centuries-old war that is going on in the Middle East is the result of Mahrova - nationalistic religiosity bordering on the prime fanaticism of the population.

    Perhaps you are right, but with regard to the confrontation between Palestine and Israel, my opinion is approximately the same. The whole conflict is that Palestine as such did not recognize the state of Israel. This has its positive sides for the Palestinian Arabs. (Do not confuse this with the Israeli Arabs by no means the same). First: since the formation of the state of Israel in 1948, the international community has given money to create a state of both Israel and Palestine. For all this time, and for 65 years, not a single state institution has been created in the Palestinian sector one production infrastructure. Everything that is currently available in the Palestinian Authority, including gas, electricity, is provided to it by Israel and the international community of the United Nations, the same is true in the Gaza Strip. You ask why, to prevent a humanitarian catastrophe. Israel issues 100-150 thousand permits for work per year only to the Arab population of the Palestinian Authority. These are the people as the former president of Egypt emerged worse than a dog because it eats with many hands and, moreover, tries to bite this hand.
    They blame Israel for all their problems, You would think that if Israel leaves tomorrow then the problems will end. And it will be something like this Syria will take the whole North of Israel to itself without talking, Egypt will take the south, Jordan will take the center including Jerusalem. And believe me there they don’t will be in a ceremony to negotiate, to make some concessions. See what Egypt is doing in the Sinai right now, the Gaza Strip expects it in the near future.
  34. faraon
    faraon 14 October 2013 15: 40 New
    0
    Quote: Turkestan
    Maybe the lack of a constitution is the reason for the excessive aggressiveness of the religious and secular elite of Israel

    In Israel, all laws are passed in the Knesset, but the basis is the fundamental principles of the Torah. I think that you will not deny the commonplace truths given to the Jewish people on Mount Sinai. Someone does not like this, someone is outraged by injustice. But the law is the law. If you something you don’t like in Israel is the highest court of justice. (constitutional court).
  35. faraon
    faraon 14 October 2013 15: 45 New
    +1
    Quote: Turkestan
    The Israeli army is multinational, this is true, but until recently, the dead defenders of the motherland were not buried purebred Jews not in the army cemetery next to their dead comrades.

    Yes, until recently, the fallen soldiers of Tsahal were buried in different cemeteries, now the spiritual order of the main military rabbi of Israel has been issued, they are buried in one cemetery. But believe me, even with the old law of burial, military cemeteries are under the tutelage of the state, no matter who is buried in them, again all from Torah: "treat an alien as a fellow tribeman ....."
  36. faraon
    faraon 14 October 2013 16: 08 New
    +2
    Quote: Turkestan
    You know, a woman is a guardian of a family home, she has no place in the army. Nature is not that, they must be protected and worn on the hands.
    And as regards withdrawing from the army, open Russian-language sites, you will be surprised to find out how many people want to do this in Israel. And how many people are imprisoned for this crime.

    Well, finally, with regard to the service of women in the army. We look at a very small state, which is constantly fighting for its survival in this friendly neighborly environment. In the case of time X, the whole country will fall under arms for 12 hours. There is simply no other choice, or we or they are us. Therefore, about every soldier who knows how to handle weapons with military equipment, owns military specialties. As for women in the Army in Tsakhal, there is no gender separation. (This does not mean that there are common baths, toilets and others) its own base, and its duties. And it’s very important that the relationship between the soldiers is brotherly. It doesn’t depend on gender. Maybe it’s not good or bad for me to judge. And the Israeli army has an alternative service so that no one forces girls to force they have a choice that is respected.
    As for desertion. Yes there is such a fact, every young man and girl should pay a duty while serving in the army or in alternative service. If there are any contraindications, both in medical and ideological terms, there is a corresponding commission that will give release or send to the place of service where the conscript will correspond to his status or exempt from passage of service.
    But if, during the course of the service, the fighter began to commit unseemly acts, that is, to delay without reason from vacation (Friday Saturday leave home), ignore the orders of his superiors and other military offenses, he will be in a military prison by the decision of a military judge - Something like a guardhouse (only with more comfortable conditions).
    In Israel, it makes no sense to mow from the army every Saturday if there are no violations, go home. Soldiers who are not in combat units go to the army as work. And they return home again in the evening. There are no hazing, they feed as if they were slaughter. Officers do not scoff. there are equally comrades whom even such a service does not suit
    1. Turkestan
      Turkestan 15 October 2013 00: 32 New
      0
      Dear Michael. My answer to your last explanation I posted a little higher on this page 18.19. I will be grateful if you familiarize yourself with it. In my opinion, the State of Israel is able to cope with external enemies and this is not the main thing. The main trouble is this internal contradiction between secular and religious Jews who can tear the country from the inside. I am satisfied with your answers, thanks.