Military Review

The command and staff vehicle "Svityaz" based on the BTR-70Di-02

33
The command and staff vehicle "Svityaz" based on the BTR-70Di-02



The command-staff vehicle (KSHM) “Svityaz”, based on the BTR-70, is a wheeled, floating, armored vehicle, with all drive wheels, equipped with two powerful FPT “IVECO” diesel engines (Euro-3). Owns the high dynamic qualities, the increased passability and smoothness of the course. Equipped with filter - ventilation unit, air conditioning, heater, lighting systems.

CSR "Svityaz" is designed to provide control of troops and organization of communication in the operational-tactical control link in motion, afloat and at the bus stop, both independently and as part of a communications center.

The prototypes of KSHM Svityaz passed preliminary tests and are now preparing for state tests, which will be held in October-November. "Svityaz" was developed as a logical continuation of integrated hardware communications (CAS). If KAS deploys the infrastructure of the communication center of the control point, then the CR will be able to connect to these data networks and increase them.

With the help of "Svityaz", the units will be controlled by radio, as well as by the types of communications that are quite new for the army as WiMAX and WiFi. There will also be video surveillance of objects and the transfer of video information. In the "Svityaz" for the first time used data transmission over the radio using IP protocols. During the development of the KSHM, the approaches to the structure of the machine changed several times. And the latest version should be successful.

KSHM on the basis of the BTR-70 was chosen as the main one for the Ukrainian army. The base of the BTR-4 will, at best, be used as a base for the prospective CMR of the “second stage”. As is known, in the 2012 year, Ukraine declared the delivery of one BTR-70Di to Sudan, and it is believed that this was just a crank machine based on it. It may well be that we are talking about one of the prototypes of "Svityaz".

Communication standards:

NATO: STANAG 5066
EUROCOM: ITU-T G.703.2048KBPS
Telefon ISDN: 2-x prov. 4's prov.

SPECIAL EQUIPMENT
Special equipment includes communication systems, automation and technical support:

Radio station KB P-1150
VHF radio stations P-030U
A-101 LAN Switch
Router A-201
Radio Gateway P-1261 with VoIP
Server
Navigation tools
Workstations

The command and command vehicle provides:

radio telephone communication and data transmission from workplaces with KB correspondents and VHF radio networks
radio telephone communication and data transmission from rendered workplaces
radio telephone communication between correspondents of radio networks and subscribers of the telephone network
data transmission between PC correspondents of radio networks and PC PU
voice communication between KSH workstations
data transmission in the local computer network KSHM
access to the telephone network of the control center
organization of two rented jobs
remote control of KSHM facilities from rendered jobs.

Chassis characteristics

Weight 12250 kg
Crew 2 people.
Landing 3 people.
Length 7595 mm
Width 2800 mm
Height 2300 mm
Ground clearance 490 mm
Maximum speed on the highway 100 km / h
Water speed 10 km / h
Cruising on the highway 860 km

Sources:
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/631503.html
http://warfiles.ru/show-40569-raskryty-podrobnosti-o-novoy-ukrainskoy-kshm-svityaz.html
http://btrmz.com/ru/ptodukt/lightbtr/btr70/svitaz
Author:
33 comments
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  1. Aristocrat
    Aristocrat 12 October 2013 08: 39 New
    +7
    The BTR-70 base is extremely archaic, poorly armored, etc. But considering that KShM should not participate directly in fire contact, this is quite justified. This chassis is quite widespread. Outdated engines from the GAZ-66 are replaced by more modern ones.
    Similar news from the Square has long ceased to be a rarity. Constantly comes information about new and new cars. What can not be said about us ... What is it? Do we have high secrecy and developed self-promotion? Or are things really going wrong with our defense industry?
    1. Akim
      Akim 12 October 2013 08: 57 New
      12
      Quote: Aristocrat
      The BTR-70 base is extremely archaic, poorly armored, etc.

      Russian troops of the R-149 are also not on the basis of the Boomerang. Here is the main word get. At KShM the most important stuffing. By the way, a small comment on the article. Here is the filling for exported machines. For her army, she is a little different.
      1. bask
        bask 12 October 2013 09: 11 New
        +4
        Quote: Akim
        Russian troops of the R-149 are also not based on the Boomerang p

        But not on the basis of the ancient BTR-70.
        And where are the new Ukrainian BTR-3E, 4. All sold for export.
        1. Akim
          Akim 12 October 2013 09: 33 New
          +5
          Quote: bask
          But not on the basis of the ancient BTR-70.

          And what is the fundamental 80-ka from 70-ka different? But there are a lot of these machines, and the corps would have to be cooked out of three or four.
          1. bask
            bask 12 October 2013 09: 44 New
            +4
            Quote: Akim
            And what is the fundamental difference between 80 and 70?

            The dimensions, the shape of the koprpus and dviglom, landing hatch in the hull.
            1. Akim
              Akim 12 October 2013 09: 51 New
              +4
              Their sizes are the same. Everything else is not fundamental and redone. By the way, the R-149 has only a lower manhole, and the Svityaz has full door halves.
              1. bask
                bask 12 October 2013 10: 15 New
                +2
                Quote: Akim
                They have the same sizes

                Combat weight: BTR70-12 tons, BTR80-13,6 tons.
                Length 7,5 m. 7,6 m.
                Width 2,8 m 2,9 m.
                Height 2,2 m. 2,4 m.
                The BTR 80A, in the combat module 30 mm gun, instead of KPVT.
                1. Akim
                  Akim 12 October 2013 10: 57 New
                  +5
                  Quote: bask
                  The BTR 80A, in the combat module 30 mm gun, instead of KPVT.

                  What does the artillery version have to do with it ?. And the difference in width is 8 cm., Does not affect the digested compartment.
            2. roial
              12 October 2013 10: 47 New
              12
              for KShMki you still have to digest the case, increase its volume, so that 70ka 80ka is not important here, the main thing is the filling. And on the other hand, if there are extra three, then it is a sin not to use them. Only suckers are allowed to re-melt what with a little modernization will serve another 20 years.
              1. svp67
                svp67 12 October 2013 10: 54 New
                0
                Quote: roial
                for KShMki you still have to digest the case, increase its volume, so the 70ka 80ka is not important here, the main thing is the filling.

                The case of 80-ki is more "rigid", therefore reworking it under the KShM is simpler and cheaper ...
                Quote: roial
                Only suckers are allowed to re-melt the fact that with a small modernization 20 will serve for another years

                Of course, especially if you are not able to establish a normal release of new equipment ...
              2. bask
                bask 12 October 2013 11: 36 New
                +5
                Quote: roial
                The fact that with a little modernization will serve another 20 years.

                They can, but the price of modernization. And the BTR -70, are already outdated.
                These are not tank corps that can be used for BTR-T / BMP-T.
                The only thing that is subject to modernization is the BRBM 2.
                Installation, new armored personnel carrier and anti-mine reservation.
                BRDM-2A. Armored reconnaissance and patrol vehicle. And as a multi-purpose armored vehicle.
                1. svp67
                  svp67 12 October 2013 11: 40 New
                  +5
                  Quote: bask
                  They can, but the price of modernization

                  When there is NO possibility to make new cars, you do not want to, but you will still modernize the "Soviet legacy"
                  1. bask
                    bask 12 October 2013 11: 57 New
                    +2
                    Quote: svp67
                    When there is NO opportunity to make new cars, you do not want to, but you will still modernize the “Soviet legacy”

                    And we are at recreation centers, on the Volga. New Russians frolic around on the BTRx 70.
                    1. Aristocrat
                      Aristocrat 12 October 2013 22: 03 New
                      +1
                      Are you absolutely sure that this machine is a BTR-70? KPVT in the trunk? Maybe all the same "based on the BTR-70"?!?
                      1. bask
                        bask 12 October 2013 23: 46 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Aristocrat
                        Are you absolutely sure that this machine is a BTR-70? KPVT in the trunk? Maybe all the same "based

                        Naturally, based on the BTR-70. The body is overcooked. I watched it myself.
                2. roial
                  12 October 2013 11: 41 New
                  +6
                  Do you know the term UNIFICATION ?? If the units are armed with BTR-70 then what for her KShM based on the BTR-80 ??? How do you think someone will supply spare parts, fuel for one car ??
                  1. svp67
                    svp67 12 October 2013 11: 47 New
                    +1
                    Quote: roial
                    If the parts are armed with BTR-70

                    In Soviet times, it was planned to abandon the 70s before the 2000 year ... And the fact that it is still in service is not a “blessing”, but a “reality”. Since BTR70 is a long-obsolete combat vehicle, which will be abandoned as soon as it becomes possible to replace it ... And the fact that instead of the CWM based on the BTR60, your army is trying to get the CWM based on the BTR70, in the current "reality" it's just “normal ...”, and don’t need to present it as some sort of “masterpiece step”.
                    1. roial
                      12 October 2013 11: 57 New
                      +2
                      We delivered it to Sudan, where they use 70 cars, so they did it on order, but on a brush
                      "masterpiece step"

                      then no one exposes, for KSM not the base is important, but the ability to organize a stable and uninterrupted communication, and no matter what base it will be on.

                      The main thing is communication equipment, which in my opinion is not bad enough.
                      There are two stations with radio modems, with the help of which data transmission channels, IP-telephony equipment and PEOM for data transmission are created.
                      Just compact and nothing more.
                      1. svp67
                        svp67 12 October 2013 13: 22 New
                        +1
                        Quote: roial
                        then no one exposes, for KSM not the base is important, but the ability to organize a stable and uninterrupted communication, and no matter what base it will be on.

                        Well now. CABM is lost at the right time because of an unreliable base chassis, anyway, that will lose control, and mean to lose the battle ...
                3. Aristocrat
                  Aristocrat 12 October 2013 22: 07 New
                  0
                  Where have 4 more small wheels from under your belly gone ?! IMHO 4x4 is not the best wheelbase for military equipment, it will not overcome the moat ...
                  1. Akim
                    Akim 13 October 2013 05: 51 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Aristocrat
                    Where have 4 more small wheels from under your belly gone ?!

                    The Serbs on the "Wolf" also removed these wheels to accommodate the landing. patency is not critically reduced.
          2. svp67
            svp67 12 October 2013 10: 19 New
            0
            Quote: Akim
            And what is the fundamental difference between 80 and 70?

            The BTR80 case is more preferable for KShM, if only because of the presence of a more direct roof and of course a diesel engine
            1. Akim
              Akim 12 October 2013 10: 58 New
              +3
              Quote: svp67
              The BTR80 case is more preferable for KShM

              If you take it from scratch, then of course. But CABG is digested from what it was.
              1. svp67
                svp67 12 October 2013 11: 00 New
                +2
                Quote: Akim
                But CABGs are digested from what was.

                Rather, from what is in service ...
                So, I think that such a decision is normal, just do not make a "sensation" out of it
                1. Akim
                  Akim 12 October 2013 11: 07 New
                  +5
                  Quote: svp67
                  just do not make a "sensation" out of it

                  I smile at you (Odessa jargon). You perceive the information article with hostility. Where does it smell like a sensation?
                  1. svp67
                    svp67 12 October 2013 11: 26 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Akim
                    I smile at you


                    Well, what can I say, the only thing that remains is "CRUSHING FISH" laughing AND FRIENDLY ... drinks
                  2. Algor73
                    Algor73 12 October 2013 12: 13 New
                    +4
                    The sensation is that Ukraine is developing a military-industrial complex, which some have long buried.
              2. Corsair
                Corsair 12 October 2013 11: 08 New
                +3
                Quote: Akim
                But CABGs are digested from what was.

                "I blinded you from what was" ... laughing
                1. Akim
                  Akim 12 October 2013 11: 15 New
                  +3
                  Quote: Corsair
                  I blinded you from what was "..

                  Who pays, he orders the music. Taitsam is made on the basis of BTR-3E1, Iraqis on the basis of BTR-4.
                2. roial
                  12 October 2013 11: 22 New
                  +4
                  KShM is made on the basis of the armored vehicles in whose order it is used, with the union KShM were based on BTR-50, BTR-60, BMP-1, BTR-80.
                  This is elementary if the main BTR-70 then KShM will be based on it.
              3. bask
                bask 12 October 2013 11: 46 New
                +1
                Quote: Akim
                If you take it from scratch, then of course. But CABG is digested from what would

                KShM R-149BMR Azimut Russia, on the BTR-80 chassis.
                1. Somad
                  Somad 12 October 2013 13: 28 New
                  +7
                  Actually, the R-149BRM KShM is the “Couch-B” (the most common armored KShM in the armed forces). And what you say is the R-149MA1, that is, the modified “Couch” with the Azimuth product. And in some places (... and many where) they still serve on the old women R-145 "Seagull". And this is the most warring KShM (on a par with the R-142 "Deimos"), because they prefer to send junk to the "hot" spots. It’s better to lose the old “Seagull” than the new “Couch” with “Azimuth”. And what is it for the people who are fighting on this - this is the last question ... So, we will rejoice for our neighbors.
                  1. The comment was deleted.
                  2. The comment was deleted.
                  3. The comment was deleted.
                  4. Somad
                    Somad 12 October 2013 13: 56 New
                    +1
                    Someone can’t upload a photo! What the hell? Links are loading and all ...
          3. Corsair
            Corsair 12 October 2013 11: 02 New
            +2
            Quote: Akim
            But there are a lot of these machines, and the corps would have to be cooked out of three or four.

            Especially since they turn out to be rusty and with holes ... (joke wink ) ...
            1. Corsair
              Corsair 12 October 2013 11: 24 New
              +2
              Quote: Corsair
              Especially since they turn out to be rusty and with holes ... (just kidding) ...

              For some reason, "love friends" did not take the joke as a JOKE fellow
              Apparently, the “overthrow” about the Iraqi contract REPEATED any sense of humor anymore ...

              It is understandable not until the "laugh * bastards" when this happens in the country and the economy ...
        2. Larus
          Larus 12 October 2013 17: 57 New
          0
          they stand and rust in the holds, but they are not taken back)
      2. Corsair
        Corsair 12 October 2013 11: 00 New
        +2
        Quote: Akim
        By the way, a small comment on the article. Here is the filling for exported machines.

        So this is what the “I” stands for ... fellow
        And in the years of the Second World War, under the “I” index, there were samples of equipment created on the platform of TROPHIC equipment (SU-76 “I” based on T 3, etc., etc.) ...
        1. xAskoldx
          xAskoldx 12 October 2013 11: 04 New
          -1
          for some reason I thought that it was somehow connected with the initial letter (IVECO)
          Although the Foreign has the right to life.
        2. Akim
          Akim 12 October 2013 11: 09 New
          +3
          Quote: Corsair
          So this is what the “I” stands for ...

          I will not answer, firstly because I do not know, and secondly, such comparisons get me.
          1. Corsair
            Corsair 12 October 2013 11: 13 New
            +2
            Quote: Akim
            I will not answer, firstly because I do not know, and secondly, such comparisons get me.

            But THIS with your comment you ALREADY answered ...
            And why are you so "fed up" by such comparisons?
            1. Akim
              Akim 12 October 2013 11: 18 New
              +4
              Quote: Corsair
              And why are you so "fed up" by such comparisons?

              The word "trophy". You are already a mature person asking such a question, and young people can really draw a wrong analogy.
              1. Corsair
                Corsair 12 October 2013 11: 34 New
                +1
                Quote: Akim
                The word "trophy". You are already a mature person asking such a question, and young people can really draw a wrong analogy.

                We leave the right to “draw analogies” for young people, but the whole “causticity” of the “I” index lies in the meaning of “import” and should, above all, “crush” the unfinished fascists, and not you ...

                Is not it?
                1. Akim
                  Akim 12 October 2013 11: 47 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Corsair
                  is the meaning of "import"

                  And why do you think that index I is identical. In Azerbaijan, 71 of them were delivered all quietly and calmly.
          2. roial
            12 October 2013 11: 46 New
            +1
            index "I" is an INJECTOR laughing
            1. Corsair
              Corsair 13 October 2013 12: 37 New
              +1
              Quote: roial
              index "I" is an INJECTOR

              Or "immobilizer" wink
      3. roial
        12 October 2013 11: 13 New
        +1
        Here is the filling for exported machines. For her army, she is a little different.


        Where are the firewood from ?? All equipment of the Telekart-Prilad factory
        1. Akim
          Akim 12 October 2013 11: 24 New
          +2
          Quote: roial
          All equipment of the Telekart-Prilad factory

          Maybe. But in particular, radio stations of our type. Added in addition to 030 and 127M. Connectors, instead of imported navigators, the positioning system CH3307.
      4. APASUS
        APASUS 12 October 2013 11: 14 New
        +2
        Quote: Akim
        Here is the filling for exported machines. For her army, she is a little different.

        So I thought that this is an export option, here both engines and hardware under the NATO standard
      5. datur
        datur 12 October 2013 22: 34 New
        +1
        [quote = Akim] [quote = Aristocrat] The BTR-70 base is extremely archaic, weakly armored, etc. [/ quote]
        Russian troops of the R-149 are also not on the basis of the Boomerang. Here is the main word get. At KShM the most important stuffing. By the way, a small comment on the article. Here is the filling for exported machines. For her army she’s a little different. [YES no, we will get BTR-82A, BTR82AM !!
    2. Alekseev
      Alekseev 12 October 2013 09: 37 New
      +4
      Not so much the BTR-70 and the archaic base.
      It is fully subject to modernization.
      Here another thing is interesting: why instead of delivering one not expensive and sufficiently powerful and modern diesel engine, for example, UTD, YaMZ, Kamaz (and such developments and opportunities are there, including among Ukrainian enterprises), left two, and quite expensive, Italian powertrain?
      Or is someone, following the example of Serdyukov and the company, too personally interested in "cooperation" with Iveco?
      1. Akim
        Akim 12 October 2013 09: 55 New
        +3
        Quote: Alekseev
        Instead of delivering one not expensive and sufficiently powerful and modern diesel engine, for example, UTD, YaMZ, KamAZ (and such developments and opportunities are available, including for Ukrainian enterprises), left two, and quite expensive, Italian power units?

        Probably what the import customer wished. On BTR-7 they put 3TD-1.
        1. Hudo
          Hudo 12 October 2013 10: 03 New
          +1
          Quote: Akim
          Probably what the import customer wished. On BTR-7 they put 3TD-1.


          It is very doubtful that "import customer" He wished to install the TD series miracle engine on his beloved equipment purchased.
          1. Akim
            Akim 12 October 2013 10: 16 New
            +5
            Quote: Hudo
            It is doubtful that the "import customer"

            Is it said from the level of neglect or stupidly out of ignorance? BTR-7 goes into service only the Ukrainian army. Such diesel engines go to Iraq. For the Egyptian BTR-50 also supply 3TD-2. Pakistan has expressed its intention to acquire a large batch of 3TD-3, for the modernization of their armored personnel carriers.
            1. Hudo
              Hudo 12 October 2013 10: 28 New
              -2
              Quote: Akim
              Such diesel engines go to Iraq.


              How so! I heard about the success of Ukroboronexport in Iraq.

              Quote: Akim
              For the Egyptian BTR-50 also supply 3TD-2. Pakistan has expressed its intention to acquire a large batch of 3TD-3, for the modernization of their armored personnel carriers.


              Bro Ahmed Kolyan's birthday. The boys gathered in ukroboroneksportThink what to give. Man has it all. Go at the State Enterprise "Plant named after Malyshev" Ukraine, 61001, Kharkov, st. Plekhanovskaya, 126 in an antique shop, explained the situation to the owner. The owner sees that the guys in the antiques do not beat the hollow, says:
              - There is a purely exclusive thing, 3TD engines - two-stroke, multi-fuel, with a high boost, direct-flow blowing,
              direct fuel injection, three-cylinder horizontally opposed pistons
              Stradivarius drum, the price of a lemon bucks, but for such a thing it’s a show.
              - What graters, guys in return, for bro Ahmed Kolyak no lave is not sorry.
              Birthday. The boys congratulate the Corifan with the words:
              - For eternal memory, from lads, super contraption, 3TD engines - two-stroke, multi-fuel, with a high boost, direct-flow blowing,
              direct fuel injection, three-cylinder horizontally opposed pistons
              Stradivarius drum.
              Bro Ahmed Kolyan glanced at the boys and in response.
              - Suckers you suckers, promised engine Stradivarius did violins.
              Boys in cars, bagpipes out and to the antique dealer.
              Chushara, are you holding us for suckers? Stradivarius did violins, wanted to throw us, the shameful wolf.
              - Quietly, quietly guys, the antique dealer in response, everything is right bazaar only has one but. Engines made Stradivarius did violins for whom? right, for suckers, and for the boys Stradivarius did 3td drums.
              (c) almost. laughing
              1. Akim
                Akim 12 October 2013 11: 02 New
                +5
                Quote: Hudo
                Hudo

                And you can on business or just to spoil the air? From whom have heard about the BTR-4. Read Iraqi military reviews?
                1. Hudo
                  Hudo 12 October 2013 11: 19 New
                  0
                  Quote: Akim
                  And you can on business or just to spoil the air? From whom have heard about the BTR-4.


                  If in the case, then Iraq and Azerbaijan refused to adopt Ukrainian-made BTR-4 armored personnel carriers, and this is FACT. Will the state-owned enterprise “Plant them. Malysheva "this failure? Most likely it will survive, but it will be extremely difficult for him.
                  Air spoil the "effective managers" unable to establish production. That's just you yourself look extremely funny when you pretend that everything is in order, and the type does not stink.
                  1. roial
                    12 October 2013 11: 26 New
                    +3
                    If in the case, then in India they also abandoned a number of Russian equipment (they preferred foreign), and no one is casting out about this. Although everyone knows why this happened.
                    1. svp67
                      svp67 12 October 2013 11: 28 New
                      +1
                      Quote: roial
                      Although everyone knows why this happened.

                      But India didn’t even buy it, so that later it wouldn’t “dynamite ...” But forgive you, “they’ve bred like suckers” ...
                      1. roial
                        12 October 2013 11: 33 New
                        0
                        They simply got tired of stepping on the same rake when the contracts are constantly being delayed, the supply of spare parts is broken, used-Chinese or Chinese are trying to slip into the place of new spare parts.
                      2. svp67
                        svp67 12 October 2013 11: 36 New
                        +2
                        Quote: roial
                        They simply got tired of stepping on the same rake when the contracts are constantly being delayed, the supply of spare parts is broken, used-Chinese or Chinese are trying to slip into the place of new spare parts.

                        Thank you, but we know YOUR flaws. You look after yourself. Tank order to Thailand in this century, or do you transfer to the next?
                  2. Corsair
                    Corsair 12 October 2013 11: 53 New
                    0
                    Quote: roial
                    If in the case, then in India they also abandoned a number of Russian equipment (they preferred foreign), and no one is casting out about this. Although everyone knows why this happened.

                    That is KNOW, and besides, there were no claims to QUALITY.

                    The exception is perhaps the "Gorshkov" on which, DEMANDING THE INDIAN CUSTOMER, they replaced the standard asbestos thermal insulation with a new-fashioned gay European "environmentally friendly and hypoallergenic", which NORMALLY "crawled out" on sea trials ...
                    1. Akim
                      Akim 12 October 2013 12: 06 New
                      0
                      Quote: Corsair
                      The exception is that "Gorshkov" n

                      So Volodya’s gun will outweigh hundreds of thousands of such evidence!
                      captain Zhiglov "The meeting place cannot be changed"
                      You have not read their forums about T-90 "Bishma".
                    2. Corsair
                      Corsair 13 October 2013 01: 51 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Akim
                      You have not read their forums about T-90 "Bishma".

                      But I SAW the enthusiastic and laudatory recall of the retired (gone into politics), Indian "armored" general about the qualities of T90 ...
                    3. Akim
                      Akim 13 October 2013 05: 52 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Corsair
                      But I saw

                      When and to whom?
                    4. Corsair
                      Corsair 13 October 2013 09: 46 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Akim
                      Quote: Corsair
                      But I saw

                      When and to whom?

                      Over time, the infa in the “cerebellum” a little “got stuck” and I “betrayed the mountain” NOT AT ALL reliable information ...I repent!

                      And the “general" may not be a general at all, and he didn’t go into politics, but the publishing business ...

                      BUT IN ALL OTHER I did not lie:
                      Bharat Werth, a retired military man of the Indian armored forces, the publisher of the Indian Military Review, was "lavished" with praise. wassat
                      And the video from the time interview refers to the 2004 year ...

                      By the way, T90 in India received the name "Bishma" in honor of the invincible hero, the incomparable hero of Mahabarata.
                    5. Akim
                      Akim 13 October 2013 10: 01 New
                      0
                      Quote: Corsair
                      And the video from the time interview refers to 2004 ..

                      The video is a bit outdated. Naturally, this is a forward movement compared with the Indian T-72M, but only after a period of exploitation began to emerge its major flaws and lag behind the neighbors. Although perhaps there is still oil in the fire, added Arjun. The Pakistanis have a similar situation. No, they do not criticize the T-80UD, but they praise their Al-Khalid with might and main. Critics of the Ukrainian tank are not heard, probably because they stopped buying it, but paid attention, unlike the Indians, to the domestic tank building.
                    6. Corsair
                      Corsair 13 October 2013 10: 50 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Akim
                      The video is a bit outdated.

                      What was what and brought as argument. repeat
                      Quote: Akim
                      but only after a period of exploitation began to emerge its major shortcomings and lag before the neighbors.

                      Please bring CONSIDERATIONS(documentary facts or at least some malomalski link "tattoo") !!!
                    7. Akim
                      Akim 13 October 2013 10: 59 New
                      0
                      Quote: Corsair
                      PLEASE give arguments (documentary facts or at least some malomalski link "tattoo") !!

                      As you say. Knowing a few more languages ​​helps.
                      http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/indian-army/51409-t-90-mass-confusion.html

                      http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/defence-strategic-issues/44522-arjun-vs-t90-m


                      bt.html

                      There are facts and videos and documents.
                      I can give a link to the Peruvian forums about the T-90, but in a different topic, otherwise we have gone far to the side.
                    8. Corsair
                      Corsair 13 October 2013 11: 44 New
                      0
                      Quote: Akim
                      I can give a link to the Peruvian forums

                      Sorry, the new "Gishpan" is not strong.
                      And about the “embarrassment” of T90, Indian tanks would have to “put their hands” on the spot from where they should grow.
                      Their test officers back in the T90 test period in the Balochistan desert "managed" to "screw up" the dviglo, which in other way did not prevent them from concluding a contract with Russia ...

                      But I did not see confirmation of the fact of LAGING FROM NEIGHBORS in your links, T90 was and remains the POWERFUL tank of the region.
                    9. Akim
                      Akim 13 October 2013 11: 52 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Corsair
                      But I did not see confirmation of the fact of LAGING FROM NEIGHBORS in your links

                      You need to read carefully. Do you want to grind all the information in a couple of hours? It took me a year. Go to the forum and read a bunch of topics.
                      I can send to Pakistan. Naturally, this is not enough on the Indian forum, but there is one. It’s the same as in Russian saying that the T-90 Fu.
                    10. Corsair
                      Corsair 13 October 2013 23: 24 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Akim
                      You need to read carefully. Do you want to grind all the information in a couple of hours? It took me a year.

                      Yes, I don’t have the time and opportunity to sit on English-language sites ... All the same, knowledge of the language is poor, and it’s more “sorted out” more important on “native”, Russian-language sites ...
  • Akim
    Akim 12 October 2013 11: 40 New
    +4
    Quote: Hudo
    If in the case, then Iraq and Azerbaijan refused to adopt Ukrainian-made BTR-4 armored personnel carriers

    Apparently this is going to Kiev?

    Do you generally understand the difference between adoption and adoption of the next batch?
    1. Hudo
      Hudo 12 October 2013 19: 49 New
      +2
      Quote: Akim

      Do you generally understand the difference between adoption and adoption of the next batch?


      Do you understand that this is the most "adoption" was a political act, probably already Iraqis are biting their elbows from such weapons? SyShyA threw a bone for participating in the occupation of Iraq. And then there was the following: an order for the production of armored personnel carriers fell from the sky at an enterprise in an extreme stage of decline. Professionals are machine tool collectors, some from the tray at the Barabashov market, some at the service station, some at the sharash-assembly office (tinning, soldering, sawing, drilling), some retired potatoes at the ranch. The situation is worse and you can’t imagine - there is an order, but there is no one to fulfill. They began to call from the street and offer unprecedented salaries - they go badly, and not those who are needed. Then the employees of the personnel department went to the addresses - former employees of spaghetti to hang on their ears, such as a high salary, social package, then ... Whoever did this - was stupid, and without previous work was left on the current one on beans , because together with a skew-armed rabble from the street that can only cook garage doors and set to weld armored personnel carriers, there can be no talk of any production culture or build quality.
      And then a new misfortune - the Thai contract. If they get round here, the kayuk to the glorious factory, because everything the touchable robbers of the hereditary kugut of Svidomo Nezalezhnik touch inevitably turns into Govno.
      1. Akim
        Akim 12 October 2013 20: 02 New
        +3
        Thais do not complain, and recently their Minister of Defense even studied the BTR-4 and BTR-4MV for the Ground Forces.
        As for the occupation. The Ukrainian brigade withdrew from that region where the era of instability began. Would you like if peacekeepers in Transnistria were also called occupiers? Or just your opinion is correct, and everything else is not true?
      2. Hudo
        Hudo 12 October 2013 20: 28 New
        +3
        Quote: Akim
        Thais do not complain, and recently their Minister of Defense even studied the BTR-4 and BTR-4MV for the Ground Forces.

        Is the difference between the sample checked to the last screw and the highly torn-up sample put on display and the production machine clear and understandable to you?

        Quote: Akim
        The Ukrainian brigade left the region where the era of instability began

        Well, it’s not in vain that the team’s grief there was a general of a half-lemon cathedral of greens on board which flew out of Iraq and got used to it. in the milieu on the drive, "as this infamous man loved to say.
        If you are not in the subject, then sit equally on the seat, so that once again, as they say in Ukraine, "do not sew in durni."
      3. Akim
        Akim 12 October 2013 20: 56 New
        +3
        Fuf, I'm tired of your skepticism. Listen to you, so everyone rowing. My classmate was older there. He brought a hookah and an Arab saber. Crazy grandmothers did not work for the apartment. Why should I call him an occupier? In a first-person dialogue, somehow more is believed.
        As for the Thai minister. He watched those cars that go to Iraq. I did not find rust there. And more thoroughly studied by Thai experts.
      4. Hudo
        Hudo 12 October 2013 21: 03 New
        +1
        Quote: Akim
        My classmate was older there. He brought a hookah and an Arab saber. Crazy grandmothers did not work for the apartment. Why should I call him an occupier?


        It’s interesting how you yourself didn’t get the idea that none of your Iraqi classmates called there to rattle their weapons. And since he was not called to, but was dragged into a foreign country to restore Amer’s order and democracy, he was the most invader and no peacemaker there.
      5. Akim
        Akim 12 October 2013 21: 19 New
        +1
        Quote: Hudo
        that none of the Iraqis called your classmate there to rattle weapons

        Uh, no. Chuchma did not himself approve this decision with the Security Council, but a request from the Iraqi government (albeit planted by the Americans), but it was an official recognized authority. You really want to prove the opposite. Listen more to the neighboring "Military Secret" where everything Soviet is called Russian, and to listen to Prokopenko is a threat to Russia from everyone, including aliens.
  • bask
    bask 12 October 2013 20: 54 New
    +1
    Quote: Akim
    Thais do not complain, but

    They themselves are trying to produce armored vehicles.
    Here is such a prodigy.
  • Akim
    Akim 12 October 2013 21: 04 New
    +1
    Quote: bask
    They themselves are trying to produce armored vehicles.

    Thais from a year ago conducted exercises in conjunction with the Singaporean military, and thus liked the firepower of the troika module. Therefore, they ordered from their developers similar in characteristics.
  • bask
    bask 12 October 2013 21: 13 New
    0
    Quote: Akim

    Thais from a year ago conducted exercises in conjunction with the Singaporean military, and thus liked the firepower of the troika module.

    Akim, and what Thai armored vehicles have a triad.
    Russia Thais BMP-3, as I recall, did not deliver. (Maybe wrong)
    BTR-3E1,30 mm gun.
  • Alex 241
    Alex 241 12 October 2013 21: 18 New
    +2
    BTR-3E1 acquired by Thailand from Ukraine flashed power at Singapore-Thai exercises / Production
    The Thai government is satisfied with the filling of bilateral military-technical cooperation (MTC) with Ukraine and notes the excellent characteristics of the armored vehicles delivered by the Ukrainian partner to the Thai army.
    According to Thai media, the BTR-3E1 produced in Ukraine showed brilliant results during the 14th bilateral annual joint exercises of the armed forces of Thailand and Singapore, which were held from March 20 to April 5.
    As part of the exercises, the principles of interaction between motorized infantry were worked out. The exercises ended with firing from different weapons systems. In the competition of eight cars from each side, the Ukrainian BTR-3E1 surpassed the Singapore Terrex BTR in all respects.
    As Thai Prime Minister Yinglak Chinawatra noted at the closing ceremony, "we are satisfied with our cooperation with Ukroboronprom and Ukraine as a whole, which is one of the world's leading manufacturers of armored vehicles."
    According to the Prime Minister, her country "is proud of the powerful and reliable Ukrainian-made BTR-3E1."
    As reported, the volume of contracts concluded in 2006-2011 and being implemented today for the supply of Thai armored vehicles to the Thai side, in particular BTR-3E1 and Oplot MBT, exceeds $ 0,5 billion.
    According to open sources, the defense budget of Thailand in 2012 is estimated at $ 5,5 billion (1,4% of GDP). In 2013, the government plans to increase defense spending by 10%.
  • Alex 241
    Alex 241 12 October 2013 21: 27 New
    +2
    Note that if two missiles are installed on an ordinary linear machine, then on the BTR-3RK four. Another 12 missiles are inside the armored personnel carrier.

    According to Sergey Gromov, armored personnel carriers will be delivered to the Odessa port no later than August 15. From there, they will be sent to Thailand and arrive at their destination in a month. Upon arrival in Thailand, Ukrainian cars will be checked again - the equipment will undergo sea trials and firing.
  • bask
    bask 12 October 2013 21: 38 New
    +1
    Quote: Alex 241
    From there, they will be sent to Thailand and arrive at their destination in a month.

    Sash, why the Thais chose the Ukrainian armored personnel carrier.
    In the same Singapore, the modern Irish BTR Terrex.
    Aft input output.
    "" "The Singapore wheeled armored personnel carrier Terrex, began testing under the Marine Personnel Carrier (MPC) program, which will result in the purchase of about 579 armored vehicles for the US Marine Corps." ""
    http://www.arms-expo.ru/049051124051051049053057.html
  • Alex 241
    Alex 241 12 October 2013 21: 53 New
    +1
    Andryukh I think that the matter is in price, Ukrainians should be given their due, even the United States was pushed back, and by the way the Thais showed BTR-4.
  • bask
    bask 12 October 2013 22: 48 New
    +1
    Quote: Alex 241
    I think that it’s the price, Ukrainians should be given their due, even the United States was pushed, and by the way

    I think you need not only price but also quality.
    Germany, the Netherlands and other countries are selling their armored vehicles with might and main (Leo and other weapons).
    So it’s better to buy a Used / Ear, Piranha-3 (LAV-25).
    The price-quality ratio will be for MOWAG (Swiss).
  • Akim
    Akim 12 October 2013 21: 32 New
    +1
    Quote: bask
    Akim, and what Thai armored vehicles have a triad.
    Russia Thais BMP-3, as I recall, did not deliver

    See a little different understanding. You have BMP-3 in service, you understand that we are talking about it, and in Ukraine only a few pieces have already been taken out of service, therefore by the troika I meant the BTR-3E1. Singaporean Terrexand a small firepower at that moment was developing a module with a 25-mm cannon, but they really liked the presence of ATGMs and Thais on armored vehicles and a twin automatic grenade launcher.
  • bask
    bask 12 October 2013 22: 14 New
    +1
    Quote: Akim
    Wow Terrex small firepower at that time was developing a module with a 25 mm gun,

    Terrex AV81: "" "has a double turret, unified with the Bayonics-25 tracked infantry fighting vehicle. The armament consists of a 25-mm American-made M242 Bushmaster cannon with which a 7,62-mm machine gun is paired. A 30-mm can also be mounted automatic gun .... The main distinguishing feature is a removable top adapter sheet with shoulder straps.Its quick replacement for other options allows you to quickly convert the machine under the new combat unit "" "http://military-informer.narod.ru/bron -Terrex.html
    Terrex has a modular design.
    Allows you to install any combat module (BTR / BMP).
    Terrex has a mass of 13,5 tons when empty and a combat weight of 24 tons.
    And the load capacity of the BTR-3E, not more than 1,5 tons.
  • xAskoldx
    xAskoldx 12 October 2013 23: 19 New
    0
    And the option that Singapore bought is armed according to your specified option, or is it still a 12,7 mm machine gun?
    in addition, you do not take into account a little that Singapore is much richer than Thailand, respectively, for him, BTR is a classic concept for this class of BT equipment
    Thailand, more modest in its capabilities and desires, therefore relies not so much on motorized infantry armored personnel carriers, but more like BMs to support special forces (just analyze what parts they entered and their brief history)
    and a keen desire to have everything with medetsin, KShN, PTRK, BREM, BM with 90 mm - 105 mm as a friend they now ask for a 120 mm mortar
    Singapore has what is prescribed for the BTR-3E Thai Armed Forces carry out other forces and means ...
  • bask
    bask 13 October 2013 00: 16 New
    +1
    Quote: xAskoldx
    And the option that Singapore bought is armed according to your choice or 12,7 mm

    I posted, it can be armed with an Terrex armored personnel carrier. (12,7 DBM, 40 mm grenade launcher, double turret with 25 mm cannon unified with BMP ,, Bionics ,,) is what they are setting now.
    Quote: xAskoldx
    and a keen desire to have everything with medetsin, KShN, PTRK, BREM, BM with 90 mm - 105 mm as a friend they now ask for a 120 mm mortar

    The modularity in the design of the Terrex BTR allows you to optionally install everything you have listed on its chassis.
    Quote: xAskoldx
    Singapore has what is prescribed for the BTR-3E Thai Armed Forces carry out other forces and means ...

    An armored personnel carrier always performs one task (it carries soldiers from point A to point B) under cover of armor.
  • Akim
    Akim 13 October 2013 06: 15 New
    0
    Quote: bask
    Terrex AV81: "" "has a two-seat turret unified with the Bayonics-25 tracked infantry fighting vehicle.

    Thank you, I didn’t. I read and it turns out that the towed tower does not satisfy their military and they ordered a module. Everybody is moving like this now. Even the neighbors, the Poles, want to abandon the towers on the Wolverines.
    As for carrying capacity. BTR-3E1 with a tower and a 90-mm gun weighs 16 tons. Probably the Belgians did not just take it as a basis, but with commercial intent.
  • bask
    bask 13 October 2013 07: 44 New
    0
    Quote: Akim
    BTR-3E1 with a tower and a 90-mm gun weighs 16 tons. Probably the Belgians did not just take it as a basis, but with commercial intent.

    Naturally with profit. Because BTR-3E, for Ukraine, first of all, exported goods. But with this modification of contracts for its purchase, it was not concluded.
    "" New conflict scenarios and threats have led to the emergence of new products, better protected armored vehicles, with better mobility and networking capabilities. Large purchases of new wheeled vehicles ...... in Asia and Europe illustrate the military and industrial value of this rapidly growing market segment. Asian new products, such as the Chinese machine WZ551B, the Indonesian ANOA 6x6, the Singaporean TERREX 8x8, the Malaysian DEFTECH AV-8 8x8, the South Korean BLACK FOX and KW2 and the Taiwanese CM-32 YUN-PAO 8x8, which have good mobility and protection .. "" "
    http://www.army-guide.com/rus/article/article.php?forumID=2419
    Akim, Asia has enough of its manufacturers, modern armored vehicles. That Ukraine won the tender for the supply of armored personnel carriers to the Thais, this is a feat that was accomplished by Ukrspetsexport.
    Quote: Akim
    and. BTR-3E1 with a tower and a 90-mm gun weighs 16 tons. N

    BTR-3E (BTR-3U).
    "" Weight, kg 16400
    Crew 3
    Landing 6
    Length, mm 7650
    Width, mm 2900
    Height, mm 2860
    Caliber of the main gun, mm 30 "" "http://ukr-army.narod.ru/btr-3.html
    Data from the Ukrainian site: Ground Forces ..... of Ukraine.
    Akim with 16,4 tons, with a 30 mm single module.
  • Alekseev
    Alekseev 12 October 2013 17: 32 New
    0
    Quote: Akim
    Probably what the import customer wished. On BTR-7 they put 3TD-1.

    Imported, or rather foreign, customers usually buy mass-produced products, but perhaps someone wanted it.
    But the article says: "The KShM on the basis of the BTR-70 is selected as the main one for the Ukrainian army.", And not for foreigners.
    The truth here is also a misunderstanding - the army KSHM, including, most likely, in the Ukrainian army, are different.
    For the SV and for the Air Force, for the battalion and for the higher headquarters. Somewhere KShM based on armored personnel carriers, and somewhere better on the basis of Kamaz or Kraz.
    Not a specific article. It is not clear what has been done: the serial production of the modernized BTR-70 with MTO including two Iveco diesel engines has been prepared, or these motors have been shoved as before in any agricultural machinery they put the MMZ diesel on the lawn at the request of a particular farmer
    1. roial
      12 October 2013 17: 44 New
      0
      Nikolaev factory of repair of armored vehicles No. 346
      The range of products manufactured by the plant:
      - since 1998, the medical machine "Ark", based on the BTR-70 Dі
      - since 1999, BRDM-2LD (with a diesel engine SMD-21-08)
      - since 2000 BTR-70M (with a diesel engine UTD-20)
      - since 2001 BTR-3U (with DEIZ diesel engine and automatic transmission)
      - since 2003, BTR-70P (police)
      - from 2007 - 2008 BTR-70Di and BRDM-2Di (with diesel engines FPT "IVESO" Tector (EURO-3)

      KShM on an armor base are issued for advanced PU and PU from a battalion and below.
      1. Alekseev
        Alekseev 12 October 2013 18: 46 New
        +3
        If the Nikolaev plant has a decent volume of orders and achieved acceptable quality, that's fine.
        It is not economical to dispose of, although old but still quite suitable for the service of armored personnel carriers and armored personnel carriers.
        But such a variety of powertrains is hardly needed.
        From this, products are more expensive and work is more complicated.
        Would choose one, the best in terms of price and quality, option and go.
    2. Akim
      Akim 12 October 2013 20: 08 New
      +1
      Quote: Alekseev
      But the article says: "The KShM on the basis of the BTR-70 is selected as the main one for the Ukrainian army.", And not for foreigners.

      The Nikolaev plant supplies armored personnel carriers to the Ukrainian army only with Ukrainian diesel engines.
      KrAZ also has many engine options, but it is supplied to the army only with Yaroslavsky
  • Aristocrat
    Aristocrat 12 October 2013 17: 32 New
    +2
    Not so much the BTR-70 and the archaic base.
    It is fully subject to modernization.

    No one claimed that it is not subject :)
    Although this is indeed so :) There is no sense in modernizing at all. For example, to remake, as in this case, in the KShM there is a sense, and not small.
    Disadvantages of the base: Extremely weak booking (on-board armor “plays” like a tin can from pressing a hand (personally checked at the time). Extremely uncomfortable hatch for landing (very small for dwarfs and without armor and weapons!) Huge turning radius and inability to turn around tank.
    Two old GASOLINE engines. And this is far from all.
    Why put two Iveco? Two - because the alterations will be minimal (on the "base" two lawn engines).
    Why import, because the calculation is specifically for imports, and the domestic engines will scare away the buyer. But why Iveco is another question. Maybe the rollback was offered more, or maybe these engines are held in high esteem by the potential KSM buyer ...
    1. roial
      12 October 2013 17: 47 New
      +2
      Disadvantages of the base: Extremely weak booking (on-board armor "plays" like a tin can from pressing a hand (personally checked at the time). Extremely uncomfortable hatch for landing (very small for dwarfs and without armor and weapons!)


      This KShM for her eyes is enough bulletproof armor, and look at the photo on the uncomfortable hatch brush, the body is overcooked and enlarged, there is a two-wing hatch as on the BTR-80

      Once again, the base is not fundamentally the main stuffing.
      1. Aristocrat
        Aristocrat 12 October 2013 20: 27 New
        +3
        This KShM for her eyes is enough bulletproof armor, and look at the photo on the uncomfortable hatch brush, the body is overcooked and enlarged, there is a two-wing hatch as on the BTR-80

        You are extremely inattentive!
        Do you really think that I would not notice the difference between an open double-leaf hatch and a BTR-70 "hole"?
        It's about the BASE! And not about KShM. “I repeat.” Base (BTR-70) - is not subject to modernization (more precisely, there is no sense in this). Or for you, the word "modernization" and "the creation of a KShM based on ..." is the same thing?

        Once again, the base is not fundamentally the main stuffing.

        In KSHM - the main filling. The "base" is secondary BUT!
        But if the base on maneuverability, speed, range, maneuverability will be much inferior to combat vehicles - then the price of such a KShM is worthless!

        Maybe you had a Chinese version ??

        Very funny. Did this "joke" seem extremely successful to you? Then you are in Petrosyan’s companions and on television.
        Apparently you have never seen an armored personnel carrier at least somewhere in a park ...
        As for the "bulletproof" armor. That KSHM there is no need to do on the basis of MBT, that's for sure. But the armor of the BTR-70 is almost anti-fragmentation ... On board anyway. I think 5,45 with a heat-strengthened core is enough for her. About 7,62 and especially 7,62X54 more than sure this "armor" is definitely not an obstacle.
        I involuntarily recalled the words of the shit ..go cowboy Patton who asked his soldiers in armored vehicles a question: "Is it true that German bullets drop armor?"
        And he received the answer: "No sir! They fly through it!"
    2. roial
      12 October 2013 17: 51 New
      0
      (on-board armor "plays" like a tin can from hand pressing (personally checked at the time)


      Maybe you had a Chinese version ?? laughing
      1. bask
        bask 12 October 2013 23: 32 New
        +3
        Quote: roial
        Maybe you had a Chinese version ??

        Your info .. is out of date.
        Chinese Tiger armored car: whose armor provides effective protection against fire from a 7,62 mm Type 56 machine gun.
        During ballistic tests, the general director of Shaanxi Baoji Special Vehicles Manufacturing Wang Bao Ho, was inside the armored car.
        The Chinese have already learned how to produce world-class equipment.
        1. roial
          12 October 2013 23: 50 New
          0
          the side armor "plays" like a tin can from hand pressing


          it's hard to believe that 6 mm armor will play like that
        2. family
          family tree 13 October 2013 01: 06 New
          +2
          Quote: bask
          During ballistic tests, the general director of Shaanxi Baoji Special Vehicles Manufacturing Wang Bao Ho, was inside the armored car.

          Wow! belay Practical shot? what
          1. Bad_gr
            Bad_gr 13 October 2013 13: 48 New
            0
            Quote: perepilka
            Wow! belay Practical shots? what

            Judging by the spray shot along the side. In principle, it is possible to choose the angle of contact between the bullet and the obstacle, which will not be broken through the tin of the door of our Volga GAZ-24.
            1. bask
              bask 13 October 2013 15: 34 New
              0
              Quote: Bad_gr
              Judging by the spray shot along the side

              Maybe. There was a gene ... director of the company. request
              And the fact that Chinese armored vehicles have made a qualitative leap over the past 5 years is a fact. (Like Turkish).
        3. starhina01
          starhina01 13 October 2013 21: 38 New
          0
          here our must also pass state acceptance soldier
  • combat192
    combat192 12 October 2013 15: 54 New
    +3
    The fact that the machine was announced by the manufacturer does not mean that it will appear in the troops. Especially in bulk.
  • Siberian German
    Siberian German 12 October 2013 19: 52 New
    0
    t-34 was archaic but many of the solutions laid down by it were used for a very long time
    1. Aristocrat
      Aristocrat 12 October 2013 20: 31 New
      +2
      Was the T-34 archaic? This is a revolutionary tank for its time! Still in some places in service (from poverty, of course).
      1. bask
        bask 13 October 2013 00: 23 New
        +4
        Quote: Aristocrat
        Was the T-34 archaic? This is a revolutionary tank for its time! Still in some places in service (from poverty, of course).

        It is in service with Syria, though only the T-34 chassis, with a D-30 howitzer. Instead of a tower.
  • xAskoldx
    xAskoldx 12 October 2013 10: 49 New
    +5
    Yes, the comment is valid ...
    Why 2 IVEKO? By the fact that minimal work on the MTO,
    2. affordable service and prevalence of engine models,
    3. assessment of the available fleet of vehicles in the post-Soviet space (it’s dumb to send into battle, but as for KShM it will give a ride) At the storage bases, several thousand buildings are without engines.
    and now about the disdainful statement regarding the 3TD series:
    1. What we can do is do it (in addition, it’s a bit easier with the provision of training for l / s)
    2. Independence from Foreign Suppliers (embargo, "whims", trade wars, sabotage, competition)
    3. Service (starting from the preparation of rem organs and ending with the overhaul enterprise)
    4. high rates of liter capacity, work in difficult conditions (temperature and altitude)
    And so, as if we have something, we set and plan (for us with nano-technologies --- the trouble is, the designer is pensioners without the right to die)
    1. Hudo
      Hudo 12 October 2013 11: 04 New
      0
      Quote: xAskoldx
      and now about the disdainful statement regarding the 3TD series:
      1. What we can do and do

      Quote: xAskoldx
      And so, as if we have something, we set and plan (for us with nano-technologies --- the trouble is, the designer is pensioners without the right to die)


      Duc and I, however, about the same. Not from a good life, Iveco or Deutz engines are installed.
      1. xAskoldx
        xAskoldx 12 October 2013 11: 07 New
        +1
        ... yes, suppliers are more reliable than YaNZ
        1. Hudo
          Hudo 12 October 2013 11: 21 New
          +1
          Quote: xAskoldx
          ... yes, suppliers are more reliable than YaNZ


          YaMZ unreliable supplier? Did not know. It’s reliable for KrAZ, but here is such a passage.
          1. xAskoldx
            xAskoldx 12 October 2013 11: 54 New
            +1
            When Kraz goes to Russia, there is no problem and everything is clear and understandable. When it goes to a country where there are already centers where they carry out repairs and maintenance, everything is fine too (with which engine they order it and supply it), but when the contract is on, everything is even at customs with damage to their (Russian) enterprises, then you begin to think about it and accordingly offer the customer alternative options. ideally, it would be necessary to master the production of the Engines line itself, but the market is very oversaturated with quality suppliers, and there is no free capital or government decisions and adequate financing. In addition, this has dubious profitability and runs counter to the adopted unification program for its own aircraft.
            1. bask
              bask 12 October 2013 13: 04 New
              +1
              Quote: xAskoldx
              profitability and goes against the adopted unification program for its own aircraft.

              Then it is easier to take and establish licensed production of armored vehicles.
              And with engines and spare parts ... there will be no problems.
              And you can enter the world market (not like with BTR 4).
              Now in the world there are many private, small firms that are not members of the concerns.
              There will be no problems with the license.
              1. xAskoldx
                xAskoldx 12 October 2013 17: 01 New
                +1
                A license up to a certain point is possible (but as soon as a weapon or a BTT unit is delivered to a country where a tense relationship pays attention to it and can disrupt the deal)
                regarding BTR-4
                There is very little time left to obtain or refute the termination of the contract with the Republic of Iraq and, accordingly, it will be possible to dot all i
                Where is the marriage of technology
                Where the failure to fulfill contractual obligations by the parties
                Where is the political component (if any)
                Such things are usually considered in international courts as the amount is very impressive.
                And yes, in fact, according to BTT, we are able to do everything that we ourselves need. For aviation and air defense systems, here we rather need to either buy or issue under a license and that’s not all.
              2. bask
                bask 13 October 2013 15: 44 New
                0
                Quote: xAskoldx
                in which a strained attitude pays attention to this and can disrupt the deal)

                With the french
                The Russian military-industrial complex, buys a lot of French military products, supplying arms including Syria, there were no sanctions and contract failures (as far as I know).
                French company Panhard 260 employees
                Released in 1998, the prototype BTR Panhard VBCI 6/6.
                Modern modular armored vehicle - buy a license and release.
                1. xAskoldx
                  xAskoldx 13 October 2013 17: 55 New
                  0
                  And we have blocked deals
                  1. Engines licensed by Sweden
                  2. with transmission copyright holders in the USA
                  You will not argue that business to business is different as are the levels of "partnership"?
                  1. bask
                    bask 13 October 2013 20: 31 New
                    0
                    Quote: xAskoldx
                    You will not argue that business to business is different as are the levels of "partnership"?

                    Why are the French good in that they have almost everything, components, their own domestic.
                    As a last resort, German.
                    And with arrogant sa and pi ... Swedes, God forbid.
    2. mirag2
      mirag2 13 October 2013 07: 24 New
      0
      A constructor without death rights is great!
  • smersh70
    smersh70 12 October 2013 11: 11 New
    +1
    ..by the way similar to one of the Wehrmacht armored vehicles ....... smile that one was also a KShM .... and more recently, the design of Wehrmacht designers is increasingly seen in new machines ...... smile
    1. Zhenya
      Zhenya 12 October 2013 11: 56 New
      0
      Are you talking about Puma?
  • xAskoldx
    xAskoldx 12 October 2013 12: 37 New
    +2
    In a nutshell, describe the reasons why the Ukrainian Armed Forces order KSHN not on the basis of the “Rook”, they can get it from someone (a whole article is needed here) ... ZIM is already bent due to lack of labor and problems with some picking suppliers.
  • waisson
    waisson 12 October 2013 19: 49 New
    0
    and here the Italians are iveko and what without them no how
  • bubla5
    bubla5 12 October 2013 21: 35 New
    0
    In my opinion, the ladder with handrails is just not enough
    1. bask
      bask 13 October 2013 00: 38 New
      +1
      Quote: bubla5
      In my opinion, the ladder with handrails is just not enough

      There is such a machine: VZTS "Ladoga" is an excellent machine in terms of its characteristics and operating time in contaminated areas.
      VETS was created, and based on the caterpillar chassis, the T-80 tank.
  • roial
    13 October 2013 11: 06 New
    0
    N-yes, they started behind the KShM and ended up with something different. laughing
  • xAskoldx
    xAskoldx 13 October 2013 11: 42 New
    0
    I’m trying to find a topic where there is minimal departure from the issue covered in the article and something other than “political jaundice” all the articles go aside only in the “slops” go in the right direction to the author and in the remaining articles the majority go to the side ...
    1. bask
      bask 13 October 2013 17: 19 New
      +2
      Quote: roial
      N-yes, they started behind the KShM and ended up with something different.

      Quote: xAskoldx
      I am trying to find a topic where there is minimal departure from the issue covered in the article and something other than in "political jaundice" all articles go aside only in the "slop" go in the right direction to the author

      I am here always, roial Vs xAskoldx, if you are not a reincarnated person, you will soon realize this.
      Now, unless a dispute. A year ago, on such branches there was real srach.
      But, I personally am opposed in articles on weapons, to switch to politics.
      For this, there are political articles on the site.
      And, that I am deviating from the topic, so this is for interest.
      Is it possible to discuss KShM on the basis of the BTR-2 for 70 days?
      1. Akim
        Akim 13 October 2013 17: 44 New
        +3
        Quote: bask
        Is it possible to discuss KShM on the basis of the BTR-2 for 70 days?

        Breaks? laughing KSHM can not be sucked for two days. Just wait for Monday. Surely there will be more topics about technology among politics.
      2. xAskoldx
        xAskoldx 13 October 2013 18: 14 New
        +1
        Let's just say in this case, I’m a “dushar” :) just a year ago I didn’t know about this site and there wasn’t much time to sit on the Internet, but since the autumn I had “suddenly” plenty of time, so we read who for what much :)
  • Alekseev
    Alekseev 13 October 2013 11: 43 New
    +2
    Quote: roial
    N-yes, they started behind the KShM and ended up nepoymy than laughing

    So always when a message appears that an armored car was made at an Ukrainian plant or armored personnel carriers were restored (modernized).
    An ordinary event for the scale of Ukraine, and of any other more or less developed country, the event provokes a vivid debate on military and political-economic topics.
    They do it right that they don’t throw in martin, but try to somehow use the available reserves and the potential of industry.
    And the quality is what it is. What is the current level of industry and R&D. I don’t know the details of the contracts (like everyone here, hotly discussing the topic), but I think it’s quite satisfactory. In any case, they try to maintain the price-quality ratio.
    But if it doesn’t work, then the APCs begin to float along the sea-waves. smile
  • scientist
    scientist 13 October 2013 12: 42 New
    +1
    The main value of KShM is its equipment.
    Radio stations according to the declared characteristics of the manufacturer "Telecard-device" (Odessa) are quite modern. But still inferior to the new Russian, French and American developments. The technology is very similar to Harris, although it may be Thales. I would like to clarify with Ukrainian signalmen.
    It is unclear on the KShM software, apparently also something NATO is worth it. Considering that the Americans don’t give their software to anyone and usually don’t show it, this is probably the French SICF.
    Among the partners of Telecard-Pribor LLC there are Belarusian companies, maybe they will tell you something interesting.
    1. roial
      13 October 2013 14: 38 New
      +4
      But still inferior to the new Russian, French and American developments


      HF and VHF stations that Russian that Ukrainian that Amer and the French. have the same communication range, and differ only in the presence of a bunch of additional functions that quite often no one uses.
      All other equipment is quite simple, without a bunch of additional features
      HF radio station R-1150


      VHF radio station R-030U


      Radio gateway R-1261


      Ethernet Switch A-101


      Router A-201


      Tactical terminal A-9620


      On-board computer A-5010


      The system is quite simple, built on the principle that with the help of an HF or VHF station, a digital channel is formed (the speed is not high somewhere up to 12 kb / s) on which an IP-telephony module is hung up for organizing 1-2 telephone numbers (an advantage of IP-telephony over a radio channel and hopefully do not need to explain manual switching?) and 1-2 workstations for exchanging textual information.

      Simple and cheerful. What does the commander need ??
      Phone to obscure subordinates (or to listen also from the authorities), and the ability to receive textual information such as orders, instructions, etc.

      Communication protocols are standard, both military and civilians use these.
  • scientist
    scientist 13 October 2013 17: 08 New
    +1
    Quote: roial
    Simple and cheerful. What does the commander need ??

    Quote: roial
    Phone to obscure subordinates

    to manage voice and obscenities over a radio station worth several thousand dollars is just like hammering nails with a computer. I have a higher opinion of Ukrainian developers.
    1. roial
      13 October 2013 17: 35 New
      +1
      Well, our commanders don’t use ACS as you wouldn’t force them, in almost all the photos in which the ACS is shown, we will give out the same military units.

      So I think this version will be more in demand than the ASUV complexes created today.

      And the developers have nothing to do with the military, even with the union of the division commander, battalion commander and others. NEVER worked on their workstation for them there were hunchbacks of signalmen. So it’s better to use less than the tricked out one and it’s not useful.
  • xAskoldx
    xAskoldx 13 October 2013 18: 34 New
    0
    Why this machine can be exported to home as well, in principle, the forum users have already written off, a summary:
    1 for export - the prevalence of the chassis of the base machine (the bulk of the money goes for re-motorization and stuffing KShN + minimal hull work)
    2. for domestic consumption - the machine can be located in any units equipped with wheeled vehicles (such as BTR-80, BTR-7, BTR-3, BTR-70, etc.) since the engine is planned for the entire 3TD range, the machine is usually located in to the rear, and most importantly (again), a supply of several thousand cases (here at the time, we should still think about expanding the line of special chemist machines, engineering intelligence BREM nurse, and so on)
    1. Akim
      Akim 13 October 2013 19: 05 New
      +1
      Quote: xAskoldx
      (here at the time, still think about expanding the line of special machines chemists, engineering intelligence BREM nurse and so on)

      BREM Nikolaev lets out, and the nurse at a rear-engine arrangement is not very.
      1. bask
        bask 13 October 2013 22: 48 New
        +1
        Quote: Akim
        BREM Nikolaev lets out, and the nurse at a rear-engine arrangement is not very.

        Especially for Algeria, the French released an APC, Panhard VRC-TT2 6/6.
        MTO in the nose, the aft entrance is out. And the price is not higher than the BTR 3E.
        Do not purchase. Algerians buy Russian BTR-80.
        1. Kars
          Kars 13 October 2013 22: 50 New
          +4
          Quote: bask
          t. Algerians buy Russian

          Has France written off many debts to Algeria recently?
        2. Akim
          Akim 14 October 2013 06: 50 New
          +1
          Quote: bask
          Algerians buy Russian BTR-80.

          You understand that buying and selling weapons is for the most part a political decision by the authorities. So it is here. The French wanted to impose their goods, like Kuwait and Qatar. Did not work out. A similar fate has MBT in Peru, fighter aircraft in Serbia, etc.
          1. bask
            bask 14 October 2013 07: 44 New
            0
            Quote: Akim
            - This is for the most part a political decision by the authorities. T

            Quote: Akim
            I have written off debts to Algeria recently

            Yes, this is understandable, but even when for free. In general, gut.
            But, to Thais BTR 3E, Ukraine is selling, for green, not any loans and leasing.
            1. Akim
              Akim 14 October 2013 09: 25 New
              0
              Quote: bask
              But, Thais BTR 3E, Ukraine sells, for green, not any loans and leasing

              Thailand has one and a half times more GDP, so politics is unlikely here. Moreover, they buy both Swedish fighters and South Korean anti-ship missiles. Apparently they choose the best price-quality ratio for themselves.