Military Review

Astana and Minsk did not agree with Moscow

291
In contrast to Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan believe that the Eurasian Union being created should be an economic, not a political association. Experts explained DW why Moscow is losing influence on the allies.




The work on the draft treaty on the Eurasian Union revealed many contradictions between the member countries of the Customs Union (CU). The document should be prepared for 1 in May 2014 of the year, and the Eurasian Union according to plan should begin its work from January 1 of 2015. But it turned out that Belarus and Kazakhstan, unlike Russia, consider the Eurasian Union not to be a political, but exclusively an economic association. “We are creating an economic union,” reminded Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko, stressing that there can be no unification in the political sphere that is being talked about in Moscow. The economic integration has been repeatedly declared by the leader of Kazakhstan, Nursultan Nazarbayev.

Minsk and Astana are not trying to create a supranational parliament of the Eurasian Union and introduce a single currency, as Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev called for. According to experts, the reason for the divergence of views is distrust of each other and the different goals of the participants in the integration process.

More integration - more disagreement.

“Issues of political integration, the introduction of a single currency and the creation of a single emission center are the main stumbling block in relations between the countries of the future Eurasian Union - Russia, Kazakhstan and Belarus,” said Yevgeny Minchenko, director of the Moscow International Institute of Political Expertise. According to him, "these topics have become the object of serious trade between the participants of the integration project."

Belarus and Kazakhstan are also worried about the intensification of competition in the Common Economic Space (CES), where Russia is the main player. According to Minchenko, Minsk and Astana are also dissatisfied with the prospect of expanding the Customs Union and joining Armenia, Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan.

The disagreements of the CU partners also came to light when trying to develop common standards for customs legislation and the tax system, said Ye.T. Gaidar Sergey Prikhodko. The leadership of Belarus and Kazakhstan reluctantly recognizes the priority of the legislation of the Customs Union over local laws. In an interview with DW, Prikhodko stressed that the conflict of interests was initially incorporated in different control systems and in the economic mechanisms of the three states, which would inevitably provoke centrifugal trends in the TS.

Belarusian oil in the fire

But director of the Belarusian Institute for Strategic Studies (BISS), professor at the European University in St. Petersburg, Alexei Pikulik, commenting on DW recent statements by the Belarusian leadership about the rejection of a political union with Russia, argues that Minsk was not initially seeking to create it. “The authorities made promises that they did not plan to fulfill, and hoped for the longest and most beneficial use of the vehicle’s loopholes,” Pikulik said.

“Now Belarus, uniting with Kazakhstan, adds fuel to the flames at the negotiations on the project of the Eurasian Union, trying to take advantage of the situation when Putin is weak and more accommodating because he loses Ukraine before his eyes,” says the analyst.

Kazakhstan political analyst, director of the Risk Assessment Group, Dosym Satpayev, explaining DW the reasons for the allies' contradictions, believes that there is no sense for Astana and Minsk to agree on political integration with Moscow, since state sovereignty is at stake. Moreover, in Kazakhstan, the opposition is also in favor of withdrawing from the Customs Union. This can not be ignored by the country's leadership, believes Satpayev.

Why Moscow is in a hurry

Participation in the Eurasian Union is not the only opportunity for foreign policy orientation for Kazakhstan. The country's leadership does not rule out cooperation with Turkey, which would like to create its economic Turkic-speaking union, as well as with China, Russia's main competitor in the post-Soviet space within the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO). Astana, unlike Minsk, also maintains normal relations with Europe and the USA, noted Satpayev.

Belarus has more vulnerable economic zones that Russia can influence. Therefore, the Belarusian government with caution looks at joining the Eurasian Union. According to Alexei Pikulik, a professor at the European University, Minsk is afraid to transfer to Moscow the responsibility for making political decisions in the field of economic restructuring and the deprivation of individual privileges that hold big business and that are illegal in the CU. The introduction of a single union currency will not allow Minsk to play in macroeconomic populism and means losing control over the country, the Belarusian political scientist believes.

Dosym Satpayev also noted that the refusal of Minsk and Astana from political unification with Moscow is a response to its tough steps to tame Ukraine and Moldova, which have chosen the path of European integration. “Under beautiful statements about mutual trade interest in the CU, Russia with the help of the Rosselkhoznadzor also prohibits the delivery of products from Kazakhstan and Belarus,” the expert notes.

He explains a number of problems in the Customs Union by the haste of its creation. “The Kremlin is in a hurry to quickly draw up an agreement on the Eurasian Union, because this document can only be signed with the current Belarusian and Kazakh rulers,” the analyst believes. After the change of leadership, the participation of Kazakhstan and Belarus in the Eurasian Union may be short-lived, predicts Satpayev.
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  1. Lech from our city
    Lech from our city 12 October 2013 06: 53 New
    15
    What kind of union is this, which, at the slightest shock, can crumble like a house of cards.

    Relations should be stable, independent of the conjuncture within the state.
    Achieving this is no easy task.
    1. mirag2
      mirag2 12 October 2013 07: 05 New
      +1
      Yes, of course, Russia strengthens the army, attention to it is growing from opponents (economic and political), which means that attention to its colleagues from the CU is also growing, this attention flatters them. But probably either by meager wit or, like Ukraine, they want two chairs.
      After all, Hillary Clinton was hysterical about TS. No wonder he threatens their plans ...
      1. Fin
        Fin 12 October 2013 10: 46 New
        +7
        Quote: mirag2
        which means that the attention to her colleagues from the TS is also growing, this attention flatters them. But probably either by meagerness, or, like Ukraine, they want two chairs.

        Why so about them. Less powerful countries have always been cautious and distrustful of various mergers and acquisitions. No need to rush things, it is better to conduct a competent domestic trade and economic policy. When there are positive results visible to all participants, all decisions will be easier. A stick is not worth driving, the time from the creation of the vehicle has passed a little.
    2. T80UM1
      T80UM1 12 October 2013 08: 28 New
      +5
      What is the relationship and the union. The strength of the union is proportional to the desire and attitude of people in the union.
    3. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 12 October 2013 08: 39 New
      +1
      Quote: Lech from our city
      Achieving this is no easy task.

      If Russia acted like the USA, it would have been achieved long ago, but for now they are squeezing the maximum out of Russia or trying to survive.
      Lukashenko seems to be normal, but he’s trembling like something, he’s completely out. Yesterday he generally proposed transferring Belarus and the Kaliningrad region. Belarus’s economy lives only thanks to Russia, that’s why it stands out request
      1. Captain Vrungel
        Captain Vrungel 12 October 2013 09: 13 New
        13
        The main problem of the union is not economic, but political. Not the equality of partners, not the democratic principles of building an alliance, but the dictates of an older brother. Replayed by Putin. Imperial ambitions go wild. So Kazakhstan begins to glance at Turkey, Belarus to look at other economic contacts.
        Калининградская область? Может это большой плюс. Калининградцев опросить надо. Многие проблемы Белоруссия решила бы на "этом острове счастья для отдельных лиц".
        1. Orik
          Orik 12 October 2013 10: 28 New
          +9
          А как вы представляете "равноправность" ядерной державы со 142 млн. населением, ВВП 2,5 триллиона долларов и Беларусь соответственно 10 млн. и 60 млд.; Казахстан 17 и 200. Эта разница в разы! Надо же быть хоть чуточку адекватными. Вот пытаются торговать как братья, а жить как чужие, глупость, эгоизм и недальновидность.
          1. Lindon
            Lindon 14 October 2013 21: 32 New
            0
            Russia has no equal, it can only have slaves-satellites.
        2. Orik
          Orik 12 October 2013 10: 34 New
          0
          non-democratic principles of union building

          Well, if you are also a shit, then this is the power of the majority and the Russians are almost six times more. Any questions?
        3. avt
          avt 12 October 2013 11: 03 New
          +3
          Quote: Captain Vrungel
          The main problem of the union is not economic, but political.

          Well, politics is a concentrated economy.
          Quote: Captain Vrungel
          Not the equality of partners, not the democratic principles of building an alliance, but the dictates of an older brother. Replayed by Putin. Imperial ambitions go wild.

          Quote: Orik
          А как вы представляете "равноправность" ядерной державы со 142 млн. населением, ВВП 2,5 триллиона долларов и Беларусь соответственно 10 млн. и 60 млд.; Казахстан 17 и 200. Эта разница в разы!

          Oh, these attempts about equality laughing и старая песня о главном про ,,старшего брата" когда выясняется что возможность есть только купить козу ,но хочется то собственный дом .Ну что тут скажешь , это не лечится ,даже когда напьются не будут соизмерять свои потребности со своими возможностями и будут попрежнему гундеть про иМперский синдром . Да ,Россия Империя и украинцы ее строили и Украина была основополагающей ее частью . Не хотите впреть этого делать ? По одежке протягивайте ножки . Вот теперь будем смотреть как предьявы в ЕС кидать будете ,про демократию там ,равноправие ...
      2. smersh70
        smersh70 12 October 2013 11: 22 New
        +3
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Yesterday I generally proposed transferring Belarus and the Kaliningrad region

        Hi Sasha !!!! yesterday, too, looked .....)) he was carrying some kind of crap ... it was immediately clear that he was interested in every dollar, every cent smile currency is not enough for him ...... the rate of his rubles is already about 10000 for a dollar .....
        1. Zhenya
          Zhenya 12 October 2013 11: 27 New
          +4
          smersh70 hi Good day, there is terrible inflation.
        2. atalef
          atalef 12 October 2013 11: 31 New
          +6
          Quote: smersh70
          ) he was carrying some kind of crap ... it was immediately evident that he was interested in every dollar, he lacked every cent of currency ...... the rate of his rubles was already about 10000 for a dollar ...

          Prior to this (yesterday), he proposed to abolish import duties on Russian oil (i.e., not to pay tax) and due to this (Russian money, re-exporting oil, of course - what he had been doing for many years) to turn Belarus into the emirates (I hope it is Islam in Islam will not translate
          )
          President of Belarus Alexander
          Лукашенко заявил, что построил бы в своей стране Объединенные Арабские Эмираты, если бы не необходимость перечислять в Россию вывозную пошлину за нефтепродукты, передает "Интерфакс".

          "Мы перечисляем в бюджет России только за нефтепродукты, вывезенные на запад, 4 млрд долларов. А если бы они остались в стране? Я бы построил здесь Эмираты"- said Lukashenko at a press conference for the Russian media in Minsk.

          How you want on someone else's hump and to paradise laughing
    4. Yura
      Yura 12 October 2013 09: 19 New
      +5
      Quote: Lech from our city
      What kind of union is this, which, at the slightest shock, can crumble like a house of cards.

      And I did not understand the article at all, in the sense: the first is Russia, Kazakhstan, Belarus, so allied states; secondly, contradictions and issues that worry our countries are best resolved immediately, no matter how red tape, the third Ukraine and some other countries that join later will be forced to do this on the basis of existing rules that no one will change. And again about the article, the topic is exaggerated if not invented at all, two different processes are mixed in one heap, filed i.e. It is written in such a way that it will almost certainly provoke discussion from scratch, and the message is not correct, pointless and its purpose is to cause disagreement, if not more.
      1. Yura
        Yura 12 October 2013 13: 52 New
        +6
        Quote: Jura
        filed i.e. It is written in such a way that it will almost certainly provoke discussion from scratch, and the message is not correct, pointless and its purpose is to cause disagreement, if not more.

        Пришёл на обед, читаю комментарии, времени почти нет что бы повнимательнее прочитать их и осмыслить, но кажется автор добился своей цели. Мужики, прошу вас не ведитесь, лучше обсуждать то что поможет нам всем быть сильнее во всех смыслах и как этого добиться, как обойти острые углы так что бы не ушибиться, и что бы у наших "друзей" с запада и мыслей не возникало соваться в наши дела и разобщить нас. Напомню историю из мифов Древней Греции, Геракл победил Гидру только тем, что увидела свой взгляд, то есть она сама себя уничтожила, увидев своё отражение, вспомним СССР разваливший сам себя.
    5. experienced
      experienced 12 October 2013 11: 02 New
      10
      Сейчас начну "вещать" ересь для большинства форумчан, но основанную на логике и своем опыте жизни.

      Russia - страна, которая рассчиталась с долгами СССР, сохранила свои территории и не распалась на анклавы, продает нефть, газ, нефть и прочее и из-за этого как она, так и от нее зависит Европа. Имеет ЯО, ВС достаточные, чтобы агрессор не "раскатывал губу" и имеет буферные зоны от прямой агрессии, Авторитет в мире имеет.... (перечислил не все, но основное вошло)

      Belarus - страна, в глазах Запада, возглавляемая диктатором, в которой Западом делаются бесконечные попытки проведения "оранжевых революций", со слабой (и не спорьте) экономикой, которая держится на российских деньгах, нефти и газе. Армия не слишком сильна. Авторитет в мире слабый.

      Kazakhstan - страна с сильной экономикой, за счет природных ресурсов (как и Россия), армия нормальная, но сосед Китай, а значит "сожрет и не подавится", на Западе многими называется диктатурой, но осторожно....

      NOW QUESTION:

      "Кому нужен союз?"

      It seems to me that Russia will survive without a vehicle, but Belarus and Kazakhstan?
      About the population below have already written hi
      1. avt
        avt 12 October 2013 11: 12 New
        +4
        Quote: seasoned
        NOW QUESTION:

        "Кому нужен союз?"

        The question is what? That amorphous Eurasia al CIS that Kazakhs and Old Man want, Russia does not need.
        Quote: Kibalchish
        And where is the Union State asked?

        And all in the same place - in a deep gorge. No one, ever in their right mind and solid memory, will let Russia steer either Kazakhs or Old Man, places are occupied, no one will let them into the emission center, and sculpt them according to the number of participants. request Well, for this you need universal insanity and a sharp outbreak of schizophrenia.
        1. experienced
          experienced 12 October 2013 11: 23 New
          13
          Quote: avt
          The question is what? That amorphous Eurasia al CIS that Kazakhs and Old Man want, Russia does not need.


          Well, it's time to substitute the side under the blows of minus wassat

          России нужно уже давно проводить политику, выгодную только для нее и ее ближайших союзников. Пора уже давно сбросить балласт стран СНГ (умерла так умерла, Вы теперь независимые - кого как устроит) и руководствоваться тезисом "Мы платим деньги, а значит банкет наш".
          Давно пора отказаться от предоставления невозвратных кредитов бывшей "родне", которые деньги как пиявки, иногда не только помогая, а и напрямую вредя России. Хватит бояться "пугалок" уйдем мы придут американцы, укреплять российские границы и на...ь на амеров и дехкан. Американцы вон влезли в Афганистан после нас... Ну придут они "на издыхании" в Азию и что? Там торгаши и предатели, а значит будут только деньги из бюджета США лететь на ветер. Если к тому времени границу прикроем, то эти деньги будут лететь напрасно. Они сейчас с Европы вплотную и что? У России есть ЯО и это сдержит любого, а мы на мульку ведемся и баев кормим и грязных гастеров в объятия принимаем...
          "Россия для русских!!!"
      2. atalef
        atalef 12 October 2013 11: 52 New
        +9
        Quote: seasoned
        It seems to me that Russia will survive without a vehicle, but Belarus and Kazakhstan?

        Yes, everyone will survive. China Mongolia or Vietnam did not gobble, why gobble Kazakhstan. Well, Belarus - in general, after the dad no one knows how the card will fall. My opinion is immediately rushed to the EU.
        1. experienced
          experienced 12 October 2013 11: 54 New
          11
          Quote: atalef
          Yes, everyone will survive. China Mongolia or Vietnam did not gobble, why gobble Kazakhstan. Well, Belarus - in general, after the dad no one knows how the card will fall. My opinion is immediately rushed to the EU.


          Ну "нарываться, так нарываться" wassat
          Would Israel survive without American help? I do not beg your fighting spirit and patriotism, but without the supply of equipment, you would simply be crushed. IMHO hi
          1. Semurg
            Semurg 12 October 2013 14: 06 New
            +5
            наверно то же выжили бы просто поменяли бы "крышу" вроде вначале Сталин крышевал? ну и сами с усами доказали это не один раз.
          2. atalef
            atalef 12 October 2013 18: 49 New
            0
            [quote = experienced] Israel would have survived without American help? [/ quote
            Definitely YES. Without military assistance --- YES. Without a political one, it would certainly affect credit rating. but the same nt is deadly. YES. Until 1967. America did not help Israel at all.

            [quote = experienced] but without supplies of equipment, you would simply be crushed. IMHO [/ quote]
            Who and what equipment? Arabs - Arabic technology? I want to see it. Well, if you connect Russia with its equipment. somehow don’t cry about American supplies to Israel
          3. atalef
            atalef 13 October 2013 12: 45 New
            0
            Quote: seasoned
            Quote: atalef
            Yes, everyone will survive. China Mongolia or Vietnam did not gobble, why gobble Kazakhstan. Well, Belarus - in general, after the dad no one knows how the card will fall. My opinion is immediately rushed to the EU.


            Ну "нарываться, так нарываться" wassat
            Would Israel survive without American help? I do not beg your fighting spirit and patriotism, but without the supply of equipment, you would simply be crushed. IMHO hi

            And the Soviet Union in the Second World War would have survived without Lend Lease and American help? So we would be the same.
    6. Airman
      Airman 13 October 2013 21: 21 New
      0
      Quote: Lech from our city
      What kind of union is this, which, at the slightest shock, can crumble like a house of cards.

      Relations should be stable, independent of the conjuncture within the state.
      Achieving this is no easy task.

      But to introduce a single currency with the Kazakhs, this is absurd, we will also feed the Kazakhs. And Belarusians disagree correctly, they have a national economy, and we have a thieves, our thieves oligarchs and their economy will gobble.
      1. andrei332809
        andrei332809 13 October 2013 21: 30 New
        0
        за четкое определение нашей экономики поставил жирный"+" пэвэошнику
      2. Lindon
        Lindon 14 October 2013 10: 39 New
        +4
        But to introduce a single currency with the Kazakhs, this is absurd, we will also feed the Kazakhs.


        Посмеялся от души. Казахстан как раз и не хочет единую валюту - рубль. Мы же помним дефолт России - девальвацию с 5 до 30 рублей. Вы наверное маленький были рубль давно имеет прозвище "деревянный". Вам с 5 ой колонной Чубайс и К надо разобраться с их контролем ЦентрБанка.
  2. Kibalchish
    Kibalchish 12 October 2013 06: 53 New
    +4
    Belarusian oil in the fire

    Here’s yesterday’s statement by Lukashenko - it’s really oil in the fire. Kemsku volost ... in the sense of the Kaliningrad region.

    And where is the Union State asked?
    1. Lech from our city
      Lech from our city 12 October 2013 07: 00 New
      +2
      Well dad MAHN .... sorry Lukashevich does not stand on ceremony, he says what he thinks, although about the KALININGRAD REGION it is still necessary to check the accuracy of the information.
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 12 October 2013 09: 06 New
        +3
        Quote: Lech from our city
        - although about the KALININGRAD REGION it is still necessary to check the accuracy of the information.

        Do you have a search engine?
        Lukashenko asks to give him the Kaliningrad region

        “I believe this is our land, in a good sense of the word,” the president of Belarus announced. - I do not pretend to pick up Kaliningrad right tomorrow. But if this could be done, then with pleasure. We were recently with Vladimir Putin in Kaliningrad, flying there by helicopter. I saw: you do not plow the earth! These lands were once the best in the USSR, the Kaliningrad region was a prosperous region - and you do not plow anything! ”
        www.mr7.ru/articles/92893/
        1. Lindon
          Lindon 12 October 2013 09: 14 New
          11
          Lukashenko must be given his due - how much money he buys in agriculture - Russia and Kazakhstan together invest less.
          It is necessary to plow the earth - I agree with him. In Kazakhstan, the state confiscates agricultural land if it is not used.
          Khrushchev would have long given the Kaliningrad region Lukashenko in the Soviet Union. But this Lukashenko in his own way hints to the Kremlin about his mistakes. Do not understand everything literally.
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 12 October 2013 09: 21 New
            +5
            Quote: Lindon
            It is necessary to plow the earth - I agree with him.

            And that, now Ukraine can give the land to China, they are also going to plow there. He wants to plow, let him invest money rent.
            Quote: Lindon
            Khrushchev would have long given the Kaliningrad region Lukashenko in the Soviet Union.

            He wouldn’t give it; on his orders, they didn’t shoot anyone there.
            Quote: Lindon
            Do not understand everything literally.

            Yes, they didn’t, but how should they understand what you said or want to tell us that we don’t know how to read and listen and therefore didn’t understand it correctly. Lukashenko himself has a lot of mistakes. Let him first recognize South Ossetia and Abkhazia. They got Russia to milk;
            1. Lindon
              Lindon 12 October 2013 09: 28 New
              +8
              Opa Yu. Ossetia and Abkhazia recognize ???
              The lip will not crack. Have you read the contracts? The USSR was dissolved on conditions of observing the borders between the republics. If you recognize South Ossetia and Abkhazia, it means that a mechanism for revising the borders between all the republics of the former USSR is launched. Tomorrow Moscow will ask for Crimea, Armenia for Karabakh, Tajikistan for Samarkand and Bukhara, etc. A big war will begin - no one will agree. The divorce was 22 of the year - and so how much blood was spilled. Is that not enough for you?
              1. Alexander Romanov
                Alexander Romanov 12 October 2013 10: 29 New
                +3
                Quote: Lindon
                The lip will not crack.

                Thank you ally!
                Quote: Lindon
                . If you recognize South Ossetia and Abkhazia, it means that a mechanism for revising borders

                We recognized and did not get confused.
                Quote: Lindon
                Tomorrow Moscow will ask for Crimea,

                He won’t ask you to ask for hell when ...
                Quote: Lindon
                Opa Yu. Ossetia and Abkhazia recognize ???
                Lip won't crack
          2. lexe
            lexe 13 October 2013 22: 06 New
            0
            it Lukashenko in his own way hints to the Kremlin about his mistakes.

            Hint ?? !!
            Yes, he is already yelling in his ear!
        2. smersh70
          smersh70 12 October 2013 11: 27 New
          +3
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Lukashenko asks to give him the Kaliningrad region


          Blimey laughing by analogy)) I wonder where Zhenya and the others who said here that give Karabakh to Armenia ...... now give Kaliningrad to Uncle Sasha ......... fool
          1. Zhenya
            Zhenya 12 October 2013 11: 29 New
            +3
            smersh70 Can you imagine what the Germans will do with them? laughing Okay, they swallowed Russia, but Batko will immediately receive a letter about the original German lands.
            1. smersh70
              smersh70 12 October 2013 15: 08 New
              +2
              Quote: Marrying
              Old Man will immediately receive a letter about the original German lands.


              Hello !!!!! and Old Man will resell Kaliningrad back to the Germans .... smile probably he had this in mind when he talked about transferring land to Minsk) because he really needs money so much ......... laughing
              1. Zhenya
                Zhenya 12 October 2013 15: 58 New
                0
                smersh70 Together with people will sell? belay From the barbarian then.
                1. smersh70
                  smersh70 12 October 2013 17: 05 New
                  0
                  Quote: Marrying
                  Together with people will sell


                  God forbid, of course !!!!!! I’m not an adviser in such matters .... You are better than our neighbors, ask your friends ..... they have gained vast experience on these issues ...... wassat ..
        3. atalef
          atalef 12 October 2013 19: 35 New
          0
          Hi Sasha. I think Lukashenko is beginning to understand that the whole ECONOMY of Belarus is starting another Tryndets. Therefore, they arrested (forgot his last name) in the hope of getting preferences.
          Now it has touched both the Kaliningrad region and oil tariffs. Lukashenko knows exactly what is happening in the economy of Belarus. Therefore, it starts ahead of time. Wait for either another default in Belarus or new requirements for Russia regarding the type of grandmothers, we are SUCH BEST BROTHERS,
    2. Hleb
      Hleb 12 October 2013 07: 03 New
      +5
      also interesting:
      Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko said that he was offered a bribe of $ 5 billion for the sale of Belaruskali at a low price, RIA Novosti reported.
      “I was offered 15 billion - five to you and ten to the treasury,” Lukashenko said at a press conference in Minsk on Friday, without specifying who made the tempting offer.
      At the same time, Lukashenko confirmed the estimate of Belaruskali at $ 30 billion. “Everyone laughed: Lukashenko was stupefied - 30 billion (enterprise) is not worth it. A few days later, Bloomberg publishes information that Belaruskali is worth more, ”he said.
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 12 October 2013 09: 23 New
        +3
        Quote: Gleb
        Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko says he was offered a bribe of $ 5 billion for the sale of Belaruskali

        Ha, and what does not say who laughing
        Quote: Gleb
        “Everyone laughed: Lukashenko fooled - 30 billion

        I agree with the laughed laughing
        Quote: Gleb
        A few days later, Bloomberg publishes information that Belaruskali is worth more. ”

        It will be necessary to look
        1. smersh70
          smersh70 12 October 2013 11: 32 New
          0
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          It will be necessary to look

          According to Belarus acquaintances, Bloomberg came and cunningly concluded an agreement with Lukashenko, according to which he got 40%, and there they didn’t notice a mistake right away, they probably signed the agreement with joy immediately))) and when they woke up, they immediately seized him at the airport ... hard in Minsk with young economists .... basically all the former Soviet economists are sitting ..
          I remember at us BSU, as a teacher, we Azerbaijanis began to blame that we are very sensitive to business, we immediately go into business .... and I also said where did you see Belarus, so that he went into business ... and he he was told, a year will pass .. the USSR will fall apart ... and capitalism will come ..... and you will regret that you did not begin to learn the basics of business .... it happened ....
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 12 October 2013 11: 52 New
            +1
            Quote: smersh70
            ) and when they woke up, they immediately grabbed him at the airport

            If he is shot, I do not mind.
            I talked only about the cost
  3. andrei332809
    andrei332809 12 October 2013 06: 59 New
    +7
    " Евразийский союз должен быть экономическим, а не политическим объединением."
    сейчас не бывает экономики без политики. не хотят выступать единым фронтом,но выгоды поиметь оченно хочется? напоминает политику бриттов." Астане и Минску нет смысла соглашаться на политическую интеграцию с Москвой, поскольку на кону - государственный суверенитет."да что ж так цепляются за "суверенитет" то?не проще в ОДНОМ,ЕДИНОМ государстве жить?или поместные князьки боятся потерять единоличную власть-мал мой двор,но он только мой?
    1. Lech from our city
      Lech from our city 12 October 2013 07: 02 New
      +7
      In a single state, we already lived — alas, the khans, bais, riches, and basmachis have tasted the sole power and do not intend to give it away.
      1. andrei332809
        andrei332809 12 October 2013 07: 05 New
        +4
        Quote: Lech from our city
        Now the khans, bais, riches, and basmachi have tasted the sole power and are not going to give it away.

        in fact of the matter. request
      2. bomg.77
        bomg.77 12 October 2013 07: 15 New
        +1
        Quote: Lech from our city
        In a single state, we have already lived — alas, khans, bais, riches, and basmachis now have tasted the sole power and give it away
        To feel this taste, they destroyed the USSR. hi
        1. ruslan207
          ruslan207 12 October 2013 07: 30 New
          +5
          bomg.77 -Who collapsed then Lukashenko, Nazarbayev Lukashenko was not yet president and Nazarbayev was not in Viskuly
          1. bomg.77
            bomg.77 12 October 2013 08: 02 New
            +2
            Read my comment carefully and you won’t see what I wrote about Lukashenko or anyone else. The comment was about the desire of the little princes to live without looking at the top and it does not matter what their names are.
        2. Lindon
          Lindon 12 October 2013 08: 21 New
          +9
          Gorbachev collapsed with Yeltsin.
          Only the GKChP tried to save something.
          The king is not to blame - these are bad ministers.
          1. bomg.77
            bomg.77 12 October 2013 08: 41 New
            -4
            Quote: Lindon
            Gorbachev collapsed with Yeltsin.
            Only the GKChP tried to save something.
            The king is not to blame - these are bad ministers.
            Yes, everyone is to blame there, everyone made a contribution. And Gorbachev, Yeltsin and all the national leaders.
            1. Lindon
              Lindon 12 October 2013 08: 48 New
              +9
              Well, well - all under one comb is not necessary.
              There were no leaders. There was one Gorbachev who lost his image in squabbles with Yeltsin. It was necessary for others to do nothing - these two did everything themselves.
              Who listened to Nazarbayev? Everyone laughed when he left the USSR on 16 in December and offered a vehicle in 1994.
              Guess where the GKChP members went after the disgrace? Nazarbayev sat in Almaty. Read the formation of the security service of Nazarbayev and Alpha.
              1. bomg.77
                bomg.77 12 October 2013 10: 04 New
                +1
                Quote: Lindon
                Nazarbayev sat in Almaty.
                I don’t know where they sat, but I personally handed over a box of vodka to Yazov when he arrived at 94 in our store with his father.
              2. avt
                avt 12 October 2013 11: 18 New
                -4
                Quote: Lindon
                Who listened to Nazarbayev?

                Горбачев . Вы огаревские соглашения по обновленному союзу поищите и почитайте .Отличие от СНГ только в названии и вечном председательстве в Кремле горбатого .ЕБН просто его из Кремля отжал ,а так тот же хрен ,но вид сбоку и Назарбаев в виде ,,страдальца" кинутого и обиженного .
            2. Ali-gurg
              Ali-gurg 12 October 2013 08: 57 New
              +5
              Quote: bomg.77
              and all national leaders

              Justify your statements? What are these leaders? Or just decided to cover their guilt with loud slogans?
              1. bomg.77
                bomg.77 12 October 2013 10: 13 New
                +2
                Quote: Ali-Gurg
                Quote: bomg.77
                and all national leaders

                Justify your statements? What are these leaders? Or just decided to cover their guilt with loud slogans?
                And what actually substantiate? That all the leaders began to play the national card and incite military conflicts throughout the whole territory from the Tribaltics to Karabakh? No one is taking responsibility and the main fault lies with Gorbaty and Yeltsin, but also with the nat. the leaders also tried to throw coal into the fire
              2. Alexander Romanov
                Alexander Romanov 12 October 2013 10: 32 New
                0
                Quote: Ali-Gurg
                What are these leaders?

                All the leaders, all now independent countries. Each pulled a blanket over himself and under himself.
            3. Marek Rozny
              Marek Rozny 12 October 2013 09: 42 New
              +7
              Quote: bomg.77
              Yes, everyone is to blame there, everyone made a contribution. And Gorbachev, Yeltsin and all the national leaders.

              Here it is not necessary to blame Russia, Ukraine and Belarus for dumping the USSR in all republics.
              1. Alexander Romanov
                Alexander Romanov 12 October 2013 10: 33 New
                0
                Quote: Marek Rozny
                Here it is not necessary to blame Russia, Ukraine and Belarus for dumping the USSR in all republics.

                What are you, and then what are you separated?
                1. Marek Rozny
                  Marek Rozny 12 October 2013 10: 45 New
                  14
                  Alexander, I have already written many times that this is not Kazakhstan, Tajikistan or Kyrgyzstan separated from the USSR, but Russia dumped from the Union before the countries of Central Asia. Nobody was going to separate from us. They offered options for a renewed Union, but did not run up on national apartments.
                  Who signed the Bialowieza Agreement? Kazakhs with Kyrgyz? Hello, come.
                  1. Alexander Romanov
                    Alexander Romanov 12 October 2013 11: 29 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Marek Rozny
                    Who signed the Bialowieza Agreement? Kazakhs with Kyrgyz? Hello, come.

                    There were agreements, and the princes of all levels were glad and were happy. We decided at a glance what to do
                2. smersh70
                  smersh70 12 October 2013 11: 36 New
                  +5
                  Quote: Alexander Romanov
                  What are you, and then what are you separated?


                  and what was left to do in the open field)) to proclaim a new USSR without Russia ... the foundation itself left first))))
                3. Kasym
                  Kasym 12 October 2013 18: 32 New
                  10
                  Alexandery Romanov. Good evening ! After the formation of the CIS in Alma-Ata, Nazarbayev and Yeltsin announced the preservation of the ruble as a monetary unit for Kazakhstan. But then Shokhin arrived and declared that the Russian Federation was introducing a new growth. ruble and, unfortunately, he will not go to the Republic of Kazakhstan. Nazarbayev asked if he had the authority to make such statements and called Yeltsin. He confirmed everything. Here is a story.
                  После подписания Беловежских соглашений был дан огромный козырь в рyки всякого рода националистических движений по всей ЦА . "Славяне нас предали ! Разграбили и отравили нашy землю (ядерное , бактериологическое ,химическое орyжие испытывали y нас , ракетный Сары-Шаган , космос Байконyр - 17% всей территории РК находилось y военных )! А затем бросили нас ! Мы для них ничто , сами собрались и втихаря все подписали ! Почемy нас не пригласили , мы что для них люди второго сорта ! Это не yважение ко всем дрyгим народам СССР !" и т.д. и т.п. . И что Вы скажите таким , после Беловежья ? С одной стороны они правы ! Свежи были еще воспоминания о декабре 1986 года в Алма-Ате. А потом начался отток населения . Только через 1,5-2 года yдалось пристрyнить , а затем распyстить националистические партии , общест. движения . Вот где лежат корни наших нациков . hi This is so, note.
              2. bomg.77
                bomg.77 12 October 2013 10: 45 New
                0
                Quote: Marek Rozny
                Here it is not necessary to blame Russia, Ukraine and Belarus for dumping the USSR in all republics.
                I’ll repeat once again None of Russia, Ukraine and Belarus take responsibility, however, it’s not worth saying that all the other shirts were torn on oneself for the preservation of the USSR, each contributed to the collapse of the USSR in accordance with its significance. The USSR for that period I will not know everything and all of them were founded by nationalism.
                1. Marek Rozny
                  Marek Rozny 12 October 2013 11: 20 New
                  13
                  ОТвечу за Казахстан и Кыргызстан. И лидеры этих республик, и народ был против развала СССР. Но нас поставили просто перед фактом в 1991 году три славянских руководителя - "СССР нет, идите все нафиг".
                2. smersh70
                  smersh70 12 October 2013 11: 37 New
                  +3
                  Quote: bomg.77
                  the rest of the shirt was torn on itself for the preservation of the USSR,

                  at least Azerbaijan and the states of Central Asia voted at the 91 referendum of the year to preserve the USSR .... but your ally, Armenia and Georgia, with the Balts first tore their throats .......
                  1. experienced
                    experienced 12 October 2013 11: 44 New
                    +4
                    Quote: smersh70
                    at least Azerbaijan and the states of Central Asia voted at the 91 referendum of the year to preserve the USSR .... but your ally, Armenia and Georgia, with the Balts first tore their throats .......

                    Bugaga, Vurgun, people communicate here, and you are advancing with propaganda. It was beneficial for Russia at some point to support Armenia, restraining Azerbaijan. In my opinion, they have now understood the depravity of this policy, it is always better to have the allies strong and rich than corrupt and poor ...
                    Я не Нострдамус, но мне кажется что то стало меняться. Россия поддерживает Алиева, Путин поздравляет, Европа негодует "демократичностью" выборов...
                    I think everything is obvious hi
                    Threat Reprimanded you, he fell into politics. It seems contagious wassat
                  2. bomg.77
                    bomg.77 12 October 2013 12: 08 New
                    +2
                    Quote: smersh70
                    Quote: bomg.77
                    the rest of the shirt was torn on itself for the preservation of the USSR,

                    at least Azerbaijan and the states of Central Asia voted at the 91 referendum of the year to preserve the USSR .... but your ally, Armenia and Georgia, with the Balts first tore their throats .......
                    In Azerbaijan, there was a massacre in Sumgait and Baku and the frontline of Iran destroyed the frontline of the people, is it not a contribution to the collapse of the USSR? And is the Ferghana event in 1989 a year not a contribution?
                    1. smersh70
                      smersh70 12 October 2013 15: 12 New
                      0
                      Quote: bomg.77
                      Azerbaijan had massacre in Sumgait and Baku


                      I won’t write for a long time not in the subject line. But I’ll say ----- these were the consequences .. there’s no reason to demand land from a neighbor ...... Your question sounds like support to the Chinese, after Damansk .... what was the USSR really wrong when giving teeth in the mouth ......
                      1. bomg.77
                        bomg.77 12 October 2013 20: 35 New
                        +2
                        [quote = smersh70] I will not write for a long time off topic [/ quote] Just this is the very topic why we can not agree when we lived before this 70 years
                        [quote = smersh70] these were the consequences .. there was no need to demand land from a neighbor [/ quote] I’m talking about this and where the national question thundered, which served as the collapse of the USSR. I don’t go into details, but we played into it
                        [quote = smersh70]. Your question sounds like support to the Chinese, after Damansky .... what was the USSR wrong when he gave in the teeth ... [/ quoteSmesh don’t have to distort))] My question comes from your answer about the fact that Azerbaijan and Central Asia had nothing to do with it, and did not participate in the collapse of the USSR
          2. Alibekulu
            Alibekulu 12 October 2013 09: 03 New
            10
            Quote: Lindon
            Only the GKChP tried to save something.
            There the situation was a little different, I think.
            The fact is that, according to the Novo-Ogaryov agreements, Nazarbayev was to become the vice-president of the USSR. Accordingly, a substantial shake-up of elites was assumed. This largely provoked the GKChP. Those. the coup initiators fought, not so much for the preservation of the Soviet Union, but for their posts and, accordingly, for their privileges.
            P.S. If Nazarbayev was in the Kremlin or the White House, it is quite possible we would now live in the USSR.
            IMHO, maybe I'm wrong request correct ..
            1. Lindon
              Lindon 12 October 2013 09: 20 New
              +8
              I think they did not hold a candle. What plans did the GKChP have you hardly knew. Nazarbayev GKChP considered theirs on the board. And the fact that GKCHP poured tones of lies and still pours Gorbachev is what we know.
              History will put everything in its place. Do you know that these were sincerely loyal people of the country and fired after the failure.
              1. Alibekulu
                Alibekulu 12 October 2013 18: 43 New
                +7
                Quote: Lindon
                I think they did not hold a candle.
                I think you didn’t hold either.
                Quote: Lindon
                GKChP poured tones of lies
                Вот не надо из них делать "последних солдат империи".
                Переворот нормально провести не могли, "Пиночеты" блин..
                Вся страна видела в прямом эфире дрожащие руки вице-президента СССР Геннадия Янаева. Не смогли организовать сердечный приступ, автокатастрофу или что-нибудь такое Ельцину "на 60-м году жизни скоропостижно скончался..."
                Nazarbayev is a pragmatist. It is clear that if the GKChP won, he would cooperate with them, without unnecessary reflections.
            2. avt
              avt 12 October 2013 11: 27 New
              -10
              Quote: Alibekulu
              P.S. If Nazarbayev was in the Kremlin or the White House, it is quite possible we would now live in the USSR.

              Yes, you throw this song of a dead deer! Yes, there would be no renewed alliance! One name, but essentially the same as the CIS. The Ogarev agreements - the creation of a confederation. It was just that the EBN jumped all over the privatization of the Kremlin, and all that remains was for the fairy tales to tell that they are not confined to the collapse of the USSR and all are soft and fluffy, and even offended. And then everyone already put on a row for themselves and dreamed of how he would heal in his ulus. What only Akayev stands with his statements about how he will do Asian Switzerland from Kyrgyzstan broke through for joy.
              1. Lindon
                Lindon 12 October 2013 14: 08 New
                +7
                Well, of course, Akayev is the head. How can it be compared at EBN?
                The king is holy, holy, holy. Hands off EBN !!!
                The king is good - these are bad ministers.
                1. avt
                  avt 12 October 2013 16: 48 New
                  0
                  Quote: Lindon
                  The king is holy, holy, holy. Hands off EBN !!!

                  What ? Nothing to say ? The most drunken, unlike the same Akayev, fought for power and a place in the Kremlin. He could drink everything except the throne. Why did he break his throats for personal power even with a hint or an evil whisper in his ear from his close ones.
                  1. Kasym
                    Kasym 12 October 2013 19: 00 New
                    +6
                    AVT. After signing the documents on the formation of the CIS (two months, in my opinion, after the Bel. Agreements), Nazarbayev believed that Russia and Kazakhstan would be enough for the new Union. Therefore, I tried in every possible way to leave Kazakhstan in the fishing zone. (See above my commentary Romanov). After Shokhin’s statement, a stream of old council poured into Kazakhstan. rubley. We turned into a laundry. All the old boats rushed to us. Inflation reached 2000% per year. This went on for several months until they printed their money.
                    And what have we come to now? Yes, of course, still Belarus. But they lost 20 years. So Nazarbayev can hardly be blamed for pulling a blanket over himself. He was farsighted of all.
                    1. avt
                      avt 12 October 2013 20: 57 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Kasym
                      Nazarbayev believed that Russia and Kazakhstan would be enough for the new Union. Therefore, I tried in every possible way to leave Kazakhstan in the fishing zone. (See above my commentary Romanov). After Shokhin’s statement, a stream of old council poured into Kazakhstan. rubley. We turned into a laundry.

                      request And when did I say that he is not adequate? Unlike Gaidar's zablabov and farcemen, he understood HOW he would and tried to glorify. All the same, he received the Soviet management school, like Turkmen bash.
                      Quote: Kasym
                      And what have we come to now? Yes, of course, still Belarus. But they lost 20 years. So Nazarbayev can hardly be blamed for pulling a blanket over himself. He was farsighted of all.
                      А мы еще ни к чему не пришли .Группа ,,ответственных товарищей" ,обладающая большим чем мы потоком информации ,мы то по хвостам часто ситуацию понимаем,только осознало объем брошенного нам вызова и возможность опасности и всего лишь озвучила протокол о намерениях .Но и уже на этом этапе видно какой объем работы предстоит сделать и какие РЕАЛЬНЫЕ противоречия не дадут его завершить .В лучшем случае мы получим более менее вменяемый вариант СНГ ,без единой валюты и наднациональных органов . А если будем гнать количество членов ТС ,то и он накроется медным тазом ихними хотелками и претензиями .Не отработав его на территории трех государств до автоматизма - размоем нахрен имеющиеся договоренности .
                      1. Kasym
                        Kasym 12 October 2013 21: 22 New
                        +6
                        AVT. This is me about the renewed Union. Where is your koment with -4. Sorry, I wanted to adjust the rating, put +, and slapped -. Next com corrected.
                        At least the first steps have been taken .TS started working, although there are comments and Nazarbayev, from Kazakhstan, ordered to check everything and give an analysis (apparently he is preparing some kind of statement on the Customs Union). And for 2015, Nazarbayev announced the beginning of the work of the new Union (Pytin called it the engine of integration, therefore we will assume that he made this statement for everyone). Little time has passed, therefore it is too early to draw conclusions.
                      2. avt
                        avt 12 October 2013 23: 40 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Kasym
                        At least the first steps have been taken. TS started working, although there are comments and Nazarbayev, from Kazakhstan, ordered to check everything and give an analysis (apparently preparing some kind of statement on the Customs Union).

                        request Well, it would be foolish to hope that like this, right away, everything will spin up and the milk rivers will run along the jelly banks. In the TS, there is a lot of work, and quite specific, manual work. It’s not enough to sign an agreement, you need to coordinate the work of the services and make them work in accordance with documents . And this is with rather strong political risks. Belkali is proof of this
                        Quote: Kasym
                        And for 2015, Nazarbayev announced the beginning of the work of the new Union (

                        I doubt very much about a full-fledged, if only economic, union. The main condition is a single emission center, I don’t see how they will solve it. Here you wrote to Romanova about money leapfrog with rubles, which is Shokhin, and the Gaidar’s staff arranged it. This is an indication that no one it’s just that the emission center will not give up and will not allow it to be split, which, in general, only a schizophrenic can do. This is not counting external factors - the new, let the regional reserve currency with a bang, not a yuan, let alone the Fed. Yes, and part with the national will also vryatli. Then what? Type of Soviet transferable ruble since the CMEA? Again, the issue of the emission center and market volume, and the circulation of this unit outside the TS and linked to national currency units. This is the first task that cannot be postponed for later in a single economic space as a guarantee of the survival of the economies of the Union countries. Otherwise, this is another SCO, BRICS, APEC, well, in general, who likes what letters and in what order.
                      3. Kasym
                        Kasym 13 October 2013 00: 24 New
                        +3
                        AVT. At first, without cash .. Then deposit cash. One example of a solution: a nominal value is issued by the Republic of Kazakhstan, others in the Russian Federation, the third in Belarus. Submission to a direct unified center, not to the presidents. How many and who to send, etc. .
                        Yes there would be a desire. Nat landfill currencies, one money and all. This is not a problem. hi
                      4. Kars
                        Kars 13 October 2013 00: 27 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Kasym
                        Submission to a direct single center

                        and who controls a single center? May I be? I promise to be honest and neutral)))
                      5. Kasym
                        Kasym 13 October 2013 00: 55 New
                        +3
                        Greetings, Kars! You would be trusted - definitely! +! Moreover, the neutral side is Ukraine (recently it was in Kiev). fellow drinks
                      6. Kars
                        Kars 13 October 2013 01: 27 New
                        +3
                        Quote: Kasym
                        You would have trusted - definitely!

                        that you are too trusting. as they say. You can’t trust anyone, but I can.
                      7. Kasym
                        Kasym 13 October 2013 02: 55 New
                        +3
                        By repeating, YOU have no problem. But our oligarchs do not!
                2. avt
                  avt 13 October 2013 10: 49 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Kasym
                  At first, without cash .. Then deposit cash

                  This is understandable, not a question.
                  Quote: Kasym
                  Submission to a direct unified center, not to the presidents.

                  request Так в этом то и вопрос !,,А судьи кто !?" Я же не зря же упомянул Ваш же пример с рублями . Да такой ,,центр" ЛЮБОГО члена союза в узел завяжет при наличии определенной воли и все это понимают ,и хотят быть владычицей морской ,что бы жить в окияне море и чтоб все остальные были на посылках.Нужна огромная воля подкрепленная соответствующей идеей интеграции ,а этого не наблюдается ,нет идеии даже близко сопоставимой с коммунистической .Жить хорошо ,а хорошо жить еще лучше -не идея .Все .Круг замкнулся в нынешнее болото СНГ .И хотя ,,вожди" все понимают - сделать ничего не могут ,а подчас не хотят,даже видя необходимость реальных действий.Авось пронесет .Нет личности масштаба Сталина ,Рузвельта ,здесь даже их третий = Черчиль слабоват ,тут реально действовать без остановки и оглядки ,мол что ,,мировая общественность скажет ?",надо ну ежели всерьез что то надумали делать ,а не так - по ушам словесами поездить .
                3. Kasym
                  Kasym 13 October 2013 20: 15 New
                  +4
                  AVT. Yважаемый , y нас ведь президентские страны . Мы можем "полоскать" темy годами . А как часто бывает междy нашими странами , соберyтся наши 01 и решат , когда бyдyт считать нyжным . Далее команда вниз и попробyй не сделай . Парламенты тоже "под контролем" президентов . Так , что , как назреет вопрос , решится . Не может быть нормального союза без общих денег .
                  Мое мнение , сейчас не о идеи нyжно дyмать . Вопрос стоит о формировании союза гос-ств (стран,респyблик) , его скелет с мотором , если можно так выразиться. А "мозги ,дyша(идея) и тело" на очереди .Нельзя за один день такое создать . "ДОРОГY ОСИЛИТ ИДYЩИЙ". , hi
  • Alibekulu
    Alibekulu 12 October 2013 19: 20 New
    +7
    Quote: avt
    it remains only to the tales of the tales to tell that they are not limits in the collapse of the USSR
    Yes, it was older .. wink
    Quote: avt
    everyone already rowed by himself and dreamed of how he would heal in his ulus.
    This is what we are now after 20 years later, when the result is known, which we consider quite good for Kazakhstan.
    Но тогда в условиях жесточайшего кризиса об этом точно "наш бай" и не мечтал. Кто - кто, а он в витании в облаках замечен не был.
    You can’t spread independence on bread. You won’t be fed up with sovereignty. Nazarbayev’s demands were similar to the current requirements of the Russian regions for the Kremlin. That would be earned by these regions would remain on their development, and not go to Moscow.
    Quote: avt
    Ogarev agreements - the creation of a confederation.
    You are telling this to your Russian compatriots who suddenly remained in one part abroad, ..
    Nazarbayev was not going to go anywhere and made every effort to preserve the USSR. Actually, he was one of the initiators of the Novo-Ogaryov agreements, so unloved by you. Yes, this is a compromise option, but albeit truncated, but the USSR had a chance of existence.
    When this failed, the Kazakhs asked to preserve at least the total ruble space. And how did the leadership of Russia ??!
    В той ситуации РФ, могло ставить условия РК, и по статусу русского языка (был бы 2-м государственным) и по представительству (квотированию) русских в госорганах, законодательной и судебной властях. Это я привожу чаяния "русской" части населения Казахстана, они звучали, в том числе и здесь на топвар. И казахское руководство приняло бы их.
    But, at present, everything has changed dramatically. Now Kazakhstan is setting the terms of the Russian Federation. And Moscow will accept them on the requirements that the Kazakh side sets.
    1. avt
      avt 12 October 2013 20: 38 New
      0
      Quote: Alibekulu
      You are telling this to your Russian compatriots who suddenly remained in one part abroad, ..

      But do not blackmail me with this.
      Quote: Alibekulu
      Nazarbayev was not going to go anywhere and made every effort to preserve the USSR. Actually, he was one of the initiators of the Novo-Ogaryov agreements, so unloved by you. Yes, this is a compromise option, but albeit truncated, but the USSR had a chance of existence.

      И не надо тень на плетень наводить и словоблудить на названиях ,никакой разницы между огаревскими горбатыми поседелками и Борькиным пьяным беловежьем СНГ нет и не было ,никакого ,,счастья" моим соотечественникам это не принесло бы ,все одно порвали бы точно так же страну как и вышло .Партверхушка предала свою же идеологию и народ и никакого иного пути кроме разрыва СССР на национальные лоскуты никто из них не искал и не хотел ,ну а все остальное - сортирная лирика для собственного оправдания .
      1. Alibekulu
        Alibekulu 12 October 2013 21: 34 New
        +6
        Quote: avt
        But do not blackmail me with this.
        Calm, only calm ..
        Quote: avt
        sorting lyrics for your own excuse.
        Are you to whom ?! repeat
        Kazakhs have no excuses for anyone and no reason ..
        1. avt
          avt 12 October 2013 23: 16 New
          0
          Quote: Alibekulu
          Kazakhs have no excuses for anyone and no reason ..
          well, like this
          Quote: Alibekulu
          Calm, only calm ..

          And about
          Quote: Alibekulu
          Are you to whom ?!

          Read the text carefully and look less with a magnifying glass for the next infringement of the national identity of the entire Kazakh people now and forever. Then you do not have to ask such questions.
          1. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny 12 October 2013 23: 32 New
            +7
            ABT, do not blame the collapse of the USSR on Kazakhstan. No need to attach Kazakhstanis and Nazarbayev to this shameful finale of the country. It was in Russia that everyone clapped their hands when the USSR collapsed, and in Kazakhstan everyone had the feeling that it was a bad dream.
            All Russia read to Solzhenitsyn, everyone dreamed about 30 varieties of sausage and believed that happiness would come as soon as the Communist Party was liquidated and Russia left the USSR.
            Разговоры на улицах, в автобусах, на кухнях были на тему: "Ээх, теперь заживем без этих хитрож.пых ов и чурок!"

            И казахи тихо охреневают, когда сегодня россияне пытаются выставить дело так, как будто это Назарбаев и Акаев развалили СССР, и что это таджики и киргизы бросили Россию, побежав к независимости. Вы в России уже совсем в своих мифах голову потеряли??? Вы реально уже не знаете еще какую причину придумать, чтобы соседей обвинить в "неблагодарности"?

            Сами же пишете и говорите херню, а потом удивляетесь отчего это казахи посчитали себя удивленными и оскорбленными. Вам мозги промывают хуже чем при Горбачеве. У вас Первый канал не в состоянии даже честно показать спортивную игру "Большие гонки", фальсифицируя итоги. Вам даже стесняются рассказать итоги танкового биатлона. Вы настолько уверились в собственной опупенности и непогрешимости, что у меня иногда рот открытый, когда я сообщения от некоторых российских форумчан читаю.
          2. smersh70
            smersh70 12 October 2013 23: 41 New
            0
            Quote: Marek Rozny
            You are even embarrassed to tell the results of the tank biathlon.

            Marek ... but you can in more detail))))) about biathlon ... and right now a wax-up will come up and say that their crews were in the first place .... wassat
          3. Kasym
            Kasym 13 October 2013 01: 06 New
            +6
            Marek, yeah! Greetings! What is there about the Great Race and Biathlon? Requests for details! wink
          4. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny 13 October 2013 08: 52 New
            +5
            Да в последнем сезоне "Больших гонок" впервые победил Казахстан, который до этого всегда чуть-чуть уступал России (США, Франция, Китай и прочие всегда занимали 3-4 место). Наши довольные, наконец-то простые казакпайские пацаны порвали российскую сборную, в которой олимпийские и мировые чемпионы, а также звезды шоу-бизнеса. Всему миру показали финал, где ведущий присуждает победу казахстанской сборной. Но...только не в России. Первый канал смонтировал передачу так, что россияне решили, что победила Россия. У меня челюсть отпала, когда я увидел российскую версию "Больших гонок". Тупое банальное вранье. И ведь это даже не Олимпиада, и не полит.дискуссии, это просто забавная игра, посмотреть и посмеяться. Но даже тут надо было показать превосходство русских над всем миром.

            Про танковый биатлон. Россияне серьезно подготовились к этому мероприятию, наверное Вы видели соревнования российских военных округов. Но вот итоги более интересного международного биатлона (17 августа), где наряду с русскими приняли участие казахи, армяне и белорусы громко нигде озвучивать не стали. Да, Россия победила. Но с минимальным отрывом от казахов, которые впервые оказались на этом поле. Россияне уложились в 23 минуты 44 секунды. Казахи отстали меньше, чем на минуту. И это при том, что выступал не основной состав казахских танкистов. Казалось бы, россияне должны были продемонстрировать на своем полигоне блестящие результаты, а выяснилось, что казахи из запасного состава без всякой подготовки выдали такой же результат. Вот и не уточняют детали международного биатлона. Просто - "Победила Россия" без всякой информации и цифрах-результатах. Всего пару небольших информ.агентств в России опубликовали все цифры. Остальные не стали уточнять, что там было. "Российские танкисты победили, все в порядке. Россияне, не волнуйтесь".
            Помните, как россияне комментировали статьи про танковый биатлон? "Наш национальный вид спорта", "Америку порвем", "Танковый биатлон - русская забава" и т.д. Какая нафиг Америка, когда даже соседи вровень идут. Белорусы заняли третье место, уступая казахам также менее минуты, армяне пришли с результатом 29:48.
            Video on the Internet appeared only yesterday. When already interest in this news was asleep.

            З.Ы. Хотя Россия и Казахстан в "Больших гонках" являются соперниками, тем не менее, когда выступают казахи, то русские поддерживают их кличем "Казакстан, алга!", а когда участвуют русские, то казахи орут кричалку "Давай, Россия!". А вместе и казахи, и русские чм.орят китайцев и американцев))) Мой братишка несколько раз уже участвовал в "Больших гонках". Впечатления от россиян - самые замечательные, говорит, что было ощущение, что это две команды одной страны. Только Нагиев казахов бесил своей высокомерностью и чванливостью, которую не позволяли себе никто из российских звезд. И Нагиев очень раздраженно реагирует на моменты, когда казахи выигрывают, хотя и русские, и казахи не сильно огорчались своим проигрышам друг другу во время этапов.
        2. avt
          avt 13 October 2013 11: 07 New
          +2
          Quote: Marek Rozny
          No need to attach Kazakhstanis and Nazarbayev to this shameful finale of the country. It was in Russia that everyone clapped their hands when the USSR collapsed, and in Kazakhstan everyone had the feeling that it was a bad dream.

          Не ,ну ей богу не хотел ,но вы уже ДОСТАЛИ своим местечковым национализмом великой казахской нации !Когда и где я писал что весь казахский народ с ликованием воспринял падение СССР ,поскольку долго и упорно подтачивал его устои ???? Вы ..ля в тексте видите только то что хочется ,а не написано ???? Для особо ,,одаренных" еще раз повторяю - развалом СССР занималась верхушка партаппарата КПСС во главе с Горбачевым и все кто там были против теми или иными способами выдавливались от руля .И Назарбаев тоже был участником ,пассивным или активным ,вопрос второй ,но ново огаревские соглашения к сохранению СССР не имели НИКАКОГО отношения кроме названия СССР ,с этим ну даже ЕБНновские гайдаровцы типа Полторанина уже не спорят . А аплодировали в России члены верховного совета РСФСР ,да процентов 5 населения те и их последователи что нынче за Навального голосуют ,от избытка ума и песен Цоя -,,Перемен ,мы хотим перемен".
      2. Alibekulu
        Alibekulu 13 October 2013 08: 46 New
        +5
        Quote: avt
        another infringement of the national identity of the entire Kazakh people now and forever.
        good afternoon hi
        У казахов в настоящее время никакого "ущемлённого национального самосознания нет". Скорее наоборот, казахи уж слишком "борзят" и "дерзят". И сейчас национальное самосознание казахского этноса очень велико (высоко). По моему казахов скорее откровенно "заносит", чем "ущемляет".
        А, то что вы считаете за при знаком "ущемления" таковым не является.
        По вашему казахи должны молча утираться и молчать, когда "чудики" с российской стороны, явно несут всякую несуразицу и "дичь" про Казахстан и казахов. Я так понимаю, что вашему имперскому сердцу милей среднеазиатские "бичоры", которых здесь даже не высовываются?!
        Almost all of the Kazakhs' comments are reasoned and justified.
        Quote: avt
        Read the text carefully and .. Then you do not have to ask such questions.
        laughing В общем как в той сказке: " Иди туда - не знаю куда, принеси то - не знаю что..." belay
      3. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny 13 October 2013 09: 25 New
        +4
        Quote: Alibekulu
        По вашему казахи должны молча утираться и молчать, когда "чудики" с российской стороны, явно несут всякую несуразицу и "дичь" про Казахстан и казахов. Я так понимаю, что вашему имперскому сердцу милей среднеазиатские "бичоры", которых здесь даже не высовываются?!

        Ну, некоторые привыкли, что таджики и узбеки молчаливое стадо. И думают, что казахи такие же. А потом в голове когнитивный диссонанс - "Надо же! Азиат не затыкается, когда ему указывают его место, да еще дерзит!"
        Россияне до ужаса мало что знают о казахах. Набор представлений ни сильно отличается от пресловутого американского набора о России "медведи на улицах, ввсе пьяные с утра, дети в детском садике калашников разбирают-собирают, кто опоздает на работу - всех сажают в тюрьму, в которой холодно и нет света".
        What does a Russian Russian know about Kazakhs:
        Kazakhstan never existed, Kazakhs were torn away from the rest of world history and culture until the Russians came to protect them from enemies (cruel Chinese who at one time had conquered not only half the world, but even China! Saved from strange Jungars ( xs who they are, but it’s worth mentioning) and the treacherous British, who supplied the rifles to the Tajiks with quiet glanders, though the Tajiks usually pinned an iron plate to them and used them like hoes), the Kazakhs did not wash, did not know the written language, but the tsarist authorities in their villages and She left libraries and theaters in the camps, and under Soviet rule, the Russians donated their lands to the Kazakhs, washed the Kazakhs, built cities and baikonurs, gave them their alphabet, in short they built and presented them an entire country in the steppe. Essentially, the Kazakhs should be grateful for all this, especially since the Russians closed the Kazakhs from the Nazis in the Great Patriotic Russian-German War, and now the Russians are protecting the Kazakhs from Islamic obscurantists, Turkish rogues and America with China. However, the Kazakhs were ungrateful, since in the 90s they severely infringed on Russians, drove them out of their apartments, raped them in the streets and imprisoned (especially knowledgeable people add that in the streets they killed Russians only because they dared to speak Russian ) Now it seems that Kazakhstan is no longer being raped for trying to say something in Russian, but nevertheless, Russians are forbidden to work in the civil service and in business. Kazakhstan is a strange ally. Instead of licking the ass of Russia, as a true faithful ally should, they not only squeamishly abandon this holy cause, but also manage to communicate with the Ottoman Empire, which is sleeping and sees how to restore the Crimean Khanate, with China (oh, unreasonable!) and the United States Naglosaksov. After all, everyone knows that Russia is in a war against these countries, which means that only Russians can go there as tourists, and the Kazakhs should watch vigilantly at the border, shooting any enemy of Russia on the horizon, who disguised as a businessman, tourist, teacher and politician . Do Kazakhs really not understand that international relations are a very intricate science, and it is too early for Kazakhs to deal with it. Russians can cuddle with a friend Bill or tell jokes in the Bundestag, and Kazakhs are still like a small child, they must be protected from communication with the outside world.
        And it is very annoying that the Kazakhs are trying to talk about their history and culture! Well, right, what is the history and culture of these shepherds? This is not even funny. Any Russian Turkologist of 15 years knows that in Kazakhstan there was a spherical vacuum before the arrival of the Russians. And any 15-year-old political scientist understands that if the Kazakhs do not obey, then Russia will be offended and stop feeding the Kazakhs, as a result, the Kazakhs will slide back to the cave age, since they themselves are not capable of development.
  • smersh70
    smersh70 12 October 2013 11: 34 New
    +5
    Quote: bomg.77
    they destroyed this taste of the USSR.

    no, my friend)))) this time you are wrong .... the khans of the nat.kras just had nothing to do with this laughing they took advantage of it only ..... and the ruin was once Tsarek ... the prince and the head of the local government ... wassat
  • Alibekulu
    Alibekulu 12 October 2013 07: 51 New
    +8
    And what is better to give to your aligarchs.
    1. T80UM1
      T80UM1 12 October 2013 08: 29 New
      10
      Yeah, change the awl for soap, ours are even local, and the Russians are all guskie pagni
      1. Orik
        Orik 12 October 2013 10: 42 New
        +2
        Unfortunately, you are right, and this is the main problem of integration, and not the attitude of the people. There is no motivation to unite with our ghouls.
  • Zhenya
    Zhenya 12 October 2013 07: 02 New
    +1
    Old Man always doesn’t like something, it’s not surprising, even somehow familiar .... they will agree with him, in general, as always. Moscow still needs Baikonur, and of course, and here they will come to a positive decision beneficial to both countries. Political union obviously will not work, let each country pull a blanket over itself (everyone has their own interests), in the current moment, Moscow has a blanket and nobody likes it. Although a single currency could still be introduced.
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 12 October 2013 09: 53 New
      10
      Единая валюта рано или поздно будет. И даже название вроде как есть - "алтын", что является исторически знакомым словом и для славян, и для тюрков)))
      But not now. A single currency is the last thing to do in a single economic union. Otherwise, unregulated processes in the economy will throw the monetary unit from side to side.

      Что касается "политического объединения" - то разговаривать об этом ВООБЩЕ рано! Не дразните врагов раньше времени!!! Давайте сначала отрегулируем таможенные, экономические законы, создадим единое управление армией, а уж потом мы можем не стесняясь открыто говорить всему миру, что создаем политический союз.
      The Kremlin is blunting nipadezzi. What for reveal all the cards at once? This can now not only cock the West, but also push away CIS neighbors who are considering a proposal to join the CU. I'm not talking about Kiev, which is unlikely to want Moscow to soon gain political dominance under the sauce of the Customs Union (and the Kremlin imagines relations with its neighbors that way).

      Let's first raise the economy, the army together (and along the way education, medicine, etc.), and only then we will start talking about creating a political Eurasian Union (following the example of the Swiss Confederation, for example).
      1. Essenger
        12 October 2013 10: 09 New
        +4
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        Let's first adjust the customs, economic laws, create a unified army control,

        Marek, you disappointed me, although you have the right, and this is your position. I respect, but I do not support
        1. Kasym
          Kasym 12 October 2013 20: 56 New
          10
          Essenger, I also support Marek. 100% In almost the same vein, I have already spoken out. At first, wealthy, wealthy citizens; as an example for others. It can be said in other words: First, a strong, joint and united economy. And there is already the Union with many ensuing structures. And don't push nikago. But we cannot delay too. Unleash the chinshes for 100 years. hi
          1. Essenger
            12 October 2013 21: 09 New
            +6
            Salem, Kasym

            I admit I do not always read your comments, but I know what kind of alliance you are with Russia. And not only you, but almost all Kazakhs with the exception of Zymran, T-80 and Drummer. Well what to say ?! Naturally I will not wish you success.

            PS: Yesterday Nazarbayev was indignant about the Belarusian meat, why would it? In general, there was a very tough performance. I remember when the TS started working only we were promised that we would export 60 thousand tons of meat per year to Russia. How much time passed and one kg was not exported.

            PS 2: Now I am reading a book about the history of Ireland, I’ll leave a little. If I answer tomorrow, please just don’t start about cars)))
            1. Kasym
              Kasym 12 October 2013 22: 36 New
              10
              Good night, Essenger! I also know that you like Western countries that are built on slave labor and looted material values. And who NEVER recognize Kazakhstan as equal to themselves. It is also necessary to realize where Kazakhstan is located and where we come from.
              Мы расположены рядом с двyмя гигантами , один из которых нам "родной", и Средней Азии . Интеграция
              1) with China threatens us with an agreement (China will never recognize us as equal)
              2) with the countries of Central Asia. Impossible due to the failure of Uzbekistan (and this is half the population of Central Asia).
              3) with Russia. Do you want - do not want. This is the best option. We are all from the USSR. We have the same views and values. One education, etc. etc. .
              Why is integration necessary? Good question . For more on territ. state and rich bowels, but with a small number. us. and a weak economy, it is impossible to develop it (read, increase the welfare of the population) without markets. And Kazakhstan approached this. These are the basics of economics. Also there is such a thing as a self-sufficient state. It used to be that around 50-60 mil people were needed. to develop economies in many areas. Now they say it is 200-300 mil. people . There is globalization. And what do you propose to close? Like Uzbeks who don’t go for any integration? Then we will turn into centuries in the Third World. And we’ll be someone’s puppets. This is a tip.
              About the meat. So far, we ourselves have been importing. And milk, and a lot of other things. Although more exported. Somewhere 30% to 70%.
              You must understand that all will not happen immediately. Need to work . I’ve recently calculated one production project - to put a line. Ideally, the year is needed from the financing to the start of the line. But this does not happen. Well take 1,5 years. How much time to recapture. Ideally 2 years. Take 3-4 years. Moreover, this is a small number of people, max. with all sorts of managers 25 people. . That is, immediately everything will not happen. And all sorts of overlays and roughness will be used when creating the Union.
              Также я знаю , что сейчас Россия не все разрешает ввозить на свою территорию . В том числе медикаменты , может быть мясо , как Вы пишите. Это проблема на сколько я знаю связана с сертификацией , по крайней мере с медик. . Но я не дyмаю , что этот вопрос "подвиснет" . России самой выгоден нормально работающий ТС . Так , что решат и с мясом , и с медикаментами и с сертификацией .
              And about the growth of well-being, I’m already in one of the years. I justified the comments why I think so that in 2015-2016 (see below). hi .
              1. Essenger
                13 October 2013 00: 05 New
                +2
                Quote: Kasym
                I also know that you like Western countries

                I do not like them, but they don’t know about my existence at all)))) Rather, I like the countries of the West))

                Quote: Kasym
                which are built on slave labor and looted material values

                I generally do not like to discuss with the Kazakhs here. We can do this on Kazakh sites. According to sabzh, join the Communist Party, we even have two of them)))

                1) I have repeatedly written about China, there Kazakhs speak Kazakh, there is a Kazakh-language channel, 1 university, dozens of newspapers and hundreds of schools, and mankurts live in Russia. I do not blame them, let them choose them. The assimilation process in Russia is higher than in China. It is a fact.

                2) Karimov and Nazarbayev will leave, we will find a common language, I communicate with the Uzbeks. Very competent guys understand that we can’t stand apart. There are contradictions; there can be no talk of a single country. But there will be a lasting alliance.

                3) Many people think that I am a rabid Russophobe and Natsik))) I relate to Russians exactly, not very much to present-day Russia, but there were times when I was even a fan of Putin))) But in August 2008 I crossed out everything.

                Quote: Kasym
                And we’ll be someone’s puppets. This is a tip.

                Kazakhstan is becoming a puppet of Russia.

                People are already tired of this. need time we all live in the future, not in the present. They say that in 2030, 2016 will be so. And time goes and goes, the people want to LIVE, NOT TO EXIST. And I, as part of the people, also want this.
              2. Yarbay
                Yarbay 13 October 2013 00: 42 New
                +5
                Quote: Kasym
                I also know that you like Western countries that are built on slave labor and looted material values. And who NEVER recognize Kazakhstan as equal to themselves.

                Hello dear brother Qasim !!
                I support Essinger in this matter !!
                And what is socialism in our countries now !!
                In Russia, do not half bother slave labor !!
                Dear brother, no IDEAS !!
                And I don’t want to unite with either Lukoil or Gazprom !!
                I am for the unification of the Turkic peoples, there is at least an idea here !!
                You won’t be forcibly sweet; Russia has an unequal attitude to other republics, but frankly lordly!
                Yours faithfully!!
                1. Kasym
                  Kasym 13 October 2013 02: 50 New
                  +5
                  Alibek, bro, salaam! Glad to read and see your comments! Alibek, Essenger. You do not quite correctly represent where I'm driving.
                  Как Вам славяно-тюркский союз ? Вот мне кажется кyда идет вектор . Я не против тюркского союза . Давайте реально смотреть . Тyркмения минyс , Yзбекистан минyс ( Вы ,Ессенджер, противоречите себе . Хочется жить хорошо сейчас , а не завтра . Но y Yзбекистана плановая экономика и если даже сейчас захочет интегрироваться , то ничего не полyчится и ждать , когда "yйдет Каримовы и Назарбаевы" не стоит . И yзбекское население имеет плохyю платежеспособность . Короче бедное по ВВП гос-во , а следовательно ждать взлета торговли не придется . Остаются Киргизия и Таджикистан , через Каспий Азербайджан . Все равно мало , даже если объединить всех тюрок, теоретически, то это 200 мил . Напомню Европа 500, США и Канада под 400. И только Славяно-Тюркский союз даст под 350 мил. .
                  Who do Kazakhstany integrate with in order to continue to grow GDP? After all, we have come to our limits - what to develop so that it grows at 7-10% per year? That's all a couple of generations will sit on raw materials (this also applies to Azerbaijan)! Farther sheep graze? At the moment, it is real only with Russia. The Republic of Kazakhstan and the Russian Federation are the backbone of the new Union. Enough, they looked west - except for the landfill, they do not give us any role. It's time to put them in their place.
                  Alibek, SOCIALISM is a business of strong and developed economies and countries. Where the economy is versatile and developed. It is future, only without excesses.
                  The idea is very powerful - the Slavic-Türkic Union (we must not forget the number of Turkic peoples in the Russian Federation, therefore, dear Alibek, I think that I don’t contradict you with the Turk. Union- I look even more broadly; as well as Turkey), which is military, political, territorial, economic plan can easily compete with all world centers of the world. In the West and East, there is a shortage of land and raw materials. Y all of us in abundance.
                  Алибек , насчет равенства . Назарбаев , давая интервью "Вестям" сказал (приблизительно). Я со всем кабинетом министров России встречался тет-а-тет в этом кабинете ,вкл. Пyтина В.В. . И рассказывал , какие реформы и почемy мы проводили в Казахстане . Они сидели здесь и конспекты писали . Конечно , надо yчитывать , что РК - это не РФ. И надо с головой подходить . И вся эта вертикаль власти ,отстраиваемая Пyтиным вначале своего президенства( после неразберихой со властью в регионах России-стрyктyра властей и конститyций в разных регионах России была разная ), была создана на нашем примере . Короче Назарбаев с Пyтиным на равных и , сколько yже примеров было , за считанные минyты решали все проблемы . Трения и проблемы были всегда ,но они либо yстранимы , либо их можно сгладить-было бы желание. НY НЕ МОЖЕТ СОЮЗ БЫТЬ НЕ РАВНОПРАВНЫМ - ВСЕ ПРОСТО ОТВЕРНYТСЯ (это же ясно ,как день). И НАДО YЧИТЫВАТЬ , ЧТО НА РАВНЫХ С ЗАПАДОМ МОЖЕТ ГОВОРИТЬ ТОЛЬКО РОССИЯ . А ТАМ ПОНИМАЮТ ТОЛЬКО ЖЕСТКYЮ СИЛY .
                  With great respect !!!
                  Essenger, I have justified both the economic and (last time) and geostrategic (today) necessity of integration and why with Russia. But I didn’t notice your explanations. Well, okay.
                  1. Kasym
                    Kasym 13 October 2013 02: 58 New
                    +2
                    Essenger, and what happened in 2008? I did not understand this, and what about Pytin?
                  2. Essenger
                    13 October 2013 08: 33 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Kasym
                    How do you like the Slavic-Turkic union?

                    Я реалист, даже тюркскому союзу нужно будет много времени. Минимум еще полвека. А славяно-тюркский союз вообще утопия. Ну не жалуют нас русские, когда вы это поймете? Мы для них "свои", когда скажем русские вы великие и наши старшие братья.

                    Quote: Kasym
                    Let's really watch. Turkmenistan miny, Uzbekistan miny (You, Essenger, contradict yourself. I want to live well now, not tomorrow.

                    I do not contradict myself, I am not saying that it is necessary to leave the CU and immediately create the Turkic Union. The Turkic Union is the future, we should strive for this in the future. In the meantime, you need to get up from your knees. to develop ourselves. Everyone understands why Nazar stepped in to drive oil up. territory.

                    Quote: Kasym
                    WE CANNOT BE UNION UNEQUAL - EVERYTHING IS SIMPLY REJECTED (it’s as clear as day). AND IT IS NECESSARY TO READ THAT ONLY RUSSIA CAN SPEAK EQUAL WITH THE WEST. AND THERE UNDERSTAND ONLY HARD STRENGTH.

                    Russia does not speak with them on equal terms; they blackmail them with the help of a gas valve. In a few years, the shale revolution will come to Europe and you can even forget about Russia.

                    Quote: Kasym
                    I did not understand this, and what about Pytin?

                    I wrote negatively about today's Russia, and Putin is the personification of Russia)))

                    Quote: Kasym
                    Essenger, and what happened in 2008

                    Occupation of Georgia

                    Quote: Kasym
                    I have justified to you both economically (last time) and geostrategic (today) the need for integration and why with Russia.

                    Due to the fact that they justified the need, my opinion does not change, and I am sure if I’m justifying my point of view, your vision will definitely not change. I do not see the point.
                    1. Kasym
                      Kasym 13 October 2013 22: 02 New
                      +4
                      Добрый вечер , Ессенджер ! Теперь все понятно . "Личная неприязнь" . А кто на нас бyдет смотреть "ровно"? Китайцы ? Даже yзбеки-братья к нам всегда относились снисходительно. Y нас был дрyгой образ жизни , своя кyльтyра,свой менталитет .Комy-то это нравится , а комy-то нет . В каждом народе есть представители , которые "не жалyют" представителей др. национальностей . Это было , есть и бyдет . Но нельзя переносить это на отношения междy народами .
                      Вот мой жизненый пример . Я слyжил на "точке"-макс. 30 солдат,5 прапоров ,3 офицера - авиа-полигон . В таких частях около 25% "залетные"(по ком плачет дисбат , но по тем или иным причинам просто переводили "с глаз долой", в том числе и "командиры") и в "yстав мало кто смотрел" .Мой призыв был самым многочисленным (как признался командир , каждого из нас он "кyпил" за 2 ящика клyбники и сам отбирал по лич. делам - бардак в части достал). По нац. составy : 5 литовцев , 4 с Yкраины (yкраинцы) ,4 с Yрала ,1 с Калиниграда(рyсские) и я . Вначале я в спинy слышал типа чyрка . А когда yходил на дембель я был секретарем комсом. орг. части и моими лyчшими дрyзьями были 2 лит. , 2 yкр. и один рyсский . Литовец мог своемy литовцy за меня мордy набить . А секр. комс. орг. меня сделали по кyрьезным обстоятельствам . Залетел по крyпномy - на полигоне разбился летчик-ливиец ,а y меня не оказалось записи разговора междy РП и летчиком. . А записывающая проволка(лента) одна на 3 часа работы и вся в yзлах(следствие порыва проволки). Мне нач. связи ВВС КСАВО грозил 2 года дис. бата..А тyт старый "комсорг" на дембель yходит . Идет комс. собрание. Вопрос : Избрание нового комсорга . И звyчит моя фамилия,причем безальтернативная . Все голосyют за меня . Отцы-командиры против , я тоже (для меня это как снег на головy летом) . "Пацаны , Вы знаете в каком я положении ! Я не могy !". "Товарищи коммyнисты , это не Ваше дело. Басмач(мое прозвище), кроме тебя не комy . Ты первый из своего призыва попал на полигон , ты практически знаешь все спец. на полигоне . А следовательно, ты пример для молодых(мой срок слyжбы тогда подходил к 1,5 г). Ты капитан фyтбольной команды части и под твоим капитанством мы впервые выиграли y соседей (там в части 150 солдат,а в нашей части фyтбол номер один-играли командиры против солдат,после моего прихода этy традицию сломали). Ты один дрyжишь с фотоаппаратyрой . Тебя yважают и ты в авторитетах . Короче , мозги не е.и .Есть вопросы ? Тов. коммyнисты Вы приглашеные , так что извините . Комсом. собрание считаю закрытым ".Я прекрасно понимал , что этим пацаны морально меня поддерживали и старались показать командирам за кого они .
                      Да и вообще , чем дольше живешь , тем больше понимаешь , что везде есть "плохие и хорошие люди", а плохих народов не бывает ."Встречают по одежке , а провожают по мозгам" . Так что все от конкретного человека зависит .
                      So you write that you need to get up from your knees. And how to develop an economy, if which enterprise does not build it, it is necessary to close it after a while? Because what to sell some, the market is small - the number of us. small one. This is where integration is needed. 160 mil it's not 17 mil. . Oil can also be supplied to China - they are ready to dig out all the oil and gas and build the entire infrastructure with their own money. , or it’s possible by tankers to Azerbaijan and further to the Black Sea. But why build, if there is already a CPC - money is not superfluous.
                      The shale revolution is a fiction, nothing more. Dirty production and very expensive.
                      1. Zymran
                        Zymran 13 October 2013 22: 23 New
                        +3
                        Quote: Kasym

                        So you write that you need to get up from your knees. And how to develop an economy, if which enterprise does not build it, it is necessary to close it after a while? Because what to sell some, the market is small - the number of us. small one. This is where integration is needed


                        Before the creation of the Customs Union, there was duty-free trade between the Russian Federation and the Republic of Kazakhstan. You can trade without any integration. Then again the WTO.
                        Where are you going to get it? Kazakhstan will enter there, whether it is good or bad. Russia is already a member of the WTO. I read your post in a thread about Aliyev, but one way or another, the entry is just around the corner.

                        Quote: Kasym
                        Oil can also be supplied to China - they are ready to dig out all the oil and gas and build the entire infrastructure with their own money. , or it’s possible by tankers to Azerbaijan and further to the Black Sea. But why build, if there is already a CPC - money is not superfluous.


                        Насколько я помню КТК был кабальным и совершенно невыгодным для Казахстана проектом, в пользу которого отказались от БТД под влиянием "старшего брата".
                      2. Essenger
                        13 October 2013 23: 20 New
                        +2
                        Dear Kasim, your position is clear to me

                        I did not read the comments after I served, switched to the last pass. The answer is the WTO.
      2. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 12 October 2013 10: 35 New
        0
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        И даже название вроде как есть - "алтын",

        Ruble pancake laughing
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        Let’s first adjust customs and economic laws, create a unified army control, and only then we can freely openly tell the whole world that we are creating a political union

        In general, normal +
        Sorry, instead of + set -.Then I will return in another koment hi
        1. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 12 October 2013 11: 22 New
          +9
          не-не-не. Нам название "рубль" не нужно. Мы не Россия. Мы же не навязываем вам название "тенге" или "динар".
          "Алтын" - хорошее название. По-тюркски это значит "золото", "золотой". В России была такая денежная единица. Компромиссное решение.
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 12 October 2013 11: 31 New
            0
            Quote: Marek Rozny
            По-тюркски это значит "золото", "золотой".

            Hm, well then there will be a gold ruble.
            Quote: Marek Rozny
            "Алтын" - хорошее название.

            I do not like
            1. Zhenya
              Zhenya 12 October 2013 11: 40 New
              0
              Marek Rozny Alexander Romanov You both listened to yourself?)) Come on, don’t let it on, oh I don’t like it, but I like it, well, let’s do it like that wassat
              Gold, good currency.
              1. Egoza
                Egoza 12 October 2013 19: 33 New
                +5
                Quote: Marrying
                Marek Rozny Alexander Romanov You both listened to yourself?)) Come on, don’t let it on, oh I don’t like it, but I like it,

                Guys! If you cannot agree here, then how can the presidents agree? laughing
                1. Marek Rozny
                  Marek Rozny 12 October 2013 20: 10 New
                  +6
                  Yes, no ...))) If Romanov and I met live to discuss this issue, then in five minutes we would have found an acceptable solution. Moreover, he would have poured, and I would have chopped dried horse meat)))
                  Live Russian with Kazakhs do not conflict, so at least sluggishly bite through the internet, Schaub does not sour until there is no real enemy))

                  З.Ы. Назарбаев, Путин, Лукашенко уже 15 лет вместе тринькают под картошечку с мясом. Причем практически каждый месяц. Потому всегда общий язык находят. Вспомнилась шутка АСТАНА.КЗ: "Президенты Казахстана и России так часто встречаются, что у них уже не осталось тем для разговоров..."
                  1. The comment was deleted.
      3. avt
        avt 12 October 2013 11: 36 New
        +1
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        The Kremlin is blunting nipadezzi. What for reveal all the cards at once? This can now not only cock the West, but also push away CIS neighbors who are considering a proposal to join the CU.

        Yeah, let's keep all of this well-known secret.
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        A single currency is the last thing to do in a single economic union. Otherwise, unregulated processes in the economy will throw the monetary unit from side to side.

        Therefore, are the Americans so nervous about their Fed that they even eliminated Muamor? Just recently, although he was a terrorist, he was kissing passionately, and as he announced the gold dinar for Arabs and Africa, he immediately became a terrible tyrant. And the Egyptian pharaoh also paid for it. The single currency is milk and the main measuring instrument of any economy of associations. Well, and the power lever too.
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        Что касается "политического объединения" - то разговаривать об этом ВООБЩЕ рано!
      4. avt
        avt 12 October 2013 11: 55 New
        +1
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        But not now. A single currency is the last thing to do in a single economic union.

        This is the first thing to do - this is milk and the main measuring tool, well, and the power lever too. And they will not be able to accept it, because they will never agree on a single emission center. All this, we have already passed with the Old Man in the union misunderstanding, that is, the state.
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        Что касается "политического объединения" - то разговаривать об этом ВООБЩЕ рано! Не дразните врагов раньше времени!!!

        There’s nothing at all, because there is no ideological basis, there used to be an Empire, then the idea of ​​socialism was added to it, but on national disunity, something can only be united by war.
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        Let's first adjust the customs, economic laws,

        Let’s also trace their execution, but this is a difficult, ungrateful, not heroic everyday work.
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        create a unified army control,

        laughing WHAT !? We kind of have a commander in chief already. Or are you going to transfer yours to our team? laughing If you're talking about the Collective Security Treaty Organization, then this is not even the Warsaw Pact, for example, advice from the chairman, so he can only make advice, for example, he can issue advice on the transition to wearing winter clothes.
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        The Kremlin is blunting nipadezzi. What for reveal all the cards at once?

        laughing Да уж ,как говорил ЧВС ,,напугали бабу туфлЯми на высоком каблуке " ,ну давайте все засекретим ,от себя то что давно известно .
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        I'm not talking about Kiev, which is unlikely to want Moscow to soon gain political dominance under the sauce of the Customs Union (and the Kremlin imagines relations with its neighbors that way).

        And where and how else? Stretch your legs on clothes. Either do not fool your head with an alliance with some kind of equality, or have the strength, any that you would be regarded as equals. For the iMpkr oppression for which you should-forget, has not rolled for a long time and only inflames our nationalism, which is still hissing at household level, but it will not burn like a child.
      5. Semurg
        Semurg 12 October 2013 14: 23 New
        +7
        well, what we have in Kazakhstan are all ardent opponents and champions, and those who think that we need to see what the TS will give and then move on to or out of the union. the only good thing would be this important decision through a referendum in all countries and not as it is now and in the whitewash when they decide on the sidelines. I remember all kinds of things about the collapse, but for me personally it was good for us, despite everything that caused the collapse in our country, I don’t know for other republics.
        1. Kasym
          Kasym 12 October 2013 21: 08 New
          +6
          Nazarbayev stated that the documents on the new Union will be ready in mid-2014. And it will start working in 2015. Not long to wait.
          I once wrote that the growth of well-being of Kazakhstanis should be somewhere around 15-16. And he connected it with the creation of the Union. By this time, we must raise the level of salaries of our state employees, as well as financially tighten social. programs for the Russian level (at least my classmates living in Moscow and Novosibirsk said that the level of salaries there is higher). Otherwise ... the people will run. Tolerate a new year, and then ...
  • Belogor
    Belogor 12 October 2013 07: 03 New
    -4
    "...заявления руководства Беларуси об отказе от политического союза с Россией"
    And this one is cunning .. the fifth chairman, a blackmailer, wants only to squeeze money out of Russia, coming up with more and more prepositions. As if he doesn’t know that in this world everything has a price.
    "недовольны Минск и Астана также перспективой расширения Таможенного союза и присоединения к нему Армении, Киргизии и Таджикистана."
    And why are these rogues needed? There’s little sense from them (well, maybe Armenia is more or less)
    1. Zhenya
      Zhenya 12 October 2013 07: 07 New
      -6
      I agree, Armenia is possible, but Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan are definitely not needed.
      1. Igor39
        Igor39 12 October 2013 07: 32 New
        +4
        And what is rich in Armenia? I just became interested, maybe I still don’t know what?
    2. SAG
      SAG 12 October 2013 07: 29 New
      +6
      Yes, you too I will look no less cunning .. You only want to have a momentary voda. In fact, they became rogues after the collapse of the USSR, before that they were respected republics. If we take about the peak case, this is of course Georgia. In 70-80gg this Georgians could consider the rest rogues.
      1. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny 12 October 2013 09: 57 New
        +6
        I absolutely agree.
        You can not focus on momentary benefits. Tomorrow Uzbekistan has excellent chances to rise. And he will also hook Tajikistan.
        Kyrgyzstan also has every chance of rising quickly. Moreover, taking into account their economy, these small camps can get on their feet much easier and faster (subject to cooperation with other countries of the Union).
        Well, and if you are friends only with rich republics, the question is - do you also behave in life?
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 12 October 2013 10: 41 New
          0
          Quote: Marek Rozny
          . Tomorrow Uzbekistan has excellent chances to rise. And he will also hook Tajikistan.
          Kyrgyzstan also has every chance of rising quickly.

          What is this on? 22 years, the bais lived there and rose, but not the country
          1. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny 12 October 2013 11: 30 New
            +9
            There are no bays in Uzbekistan. Karimov tightly monitors the situation in the country and does not allow any oligarchs to emerge from the clan.
            I associate the hope for the development of Uzbekistan with the start of work on the Aral shelf in Karakalpakstan. There will be hydrocarbon production. This will help the Uzbeks. Well, I never doubted the industriousness of this people. They would have a good investment, a friendlier and pragmatic leader, and the day after tomorrow both Kazakhstan and Russia will be torn in terms of living standards. This is Uzbek! They like to work, they know how to work. Strategic planning has always historically been a disaster for them.
            Таджикистан сильно привязан к Узбекистану. Я их рассматриваю в одной экономической связке. А Кыргызстан тяготеет к Казахстану. В рамках единого экономического пространства Казахстан вытянет кыргызов. Лишь бы они не сопротивлялись))) А то есть такая шутка: "Когда казахи и кыргызы объединятся в одно государство, то первую неделю казахи с кыргызами будут пить на радостях. А через неделю появится антиколониальное кыргызское движение..."
      2. Belogor
        Belogor 12 October 2013 12: 24 New
        +3
        It is not necessary to confuse Russia with a social security, money is being pulled regularly, but they do not forget to water with mud for any reason. Already got these brothers.
    3. smersh70
      smersh70 12 October 2013 11: 39 New
      +2
      Quote: Belogor
      (well, maybe even more or less Armenia)


      and that it is richer compared to Kyrgyzstan smile
  • bomg.77
    bomg.77 12 October 2013 07: 06 New
    -1
    Kazakhstan has completely hit pan-Turkism. This is not good.
    1. Lindon
      Lindon 12 October 2013 08: 24 New
      +3
      Do not forget your roots.
      Russia with the oligarchs pulls the vehicle in w ... u
      Kazakhstan always has a choice - not to succeed with Russia - it is possible to build a bright future with Turkey and China.
      Not the fact that Russia will rise with a knee-elbow.
      1. andrei332809
        andrei332809 12 October 2013 08: 36 New
        +8
        Quote: Lindon
        Not the fact that Russia will rise with a knee-elbow.

        Lord, how many great powers appeared around. Yesterday Azerbaijan was going to fight until the final victory, today Kazakhstan is self-sufficient and very prosperous ...
        is it really difficult to understand that, alone, nobody represents anything, and singles (well, or those who want to suck two heifers) will always spread rot and use number 2 as products? in unity, power is still not empty words.
        py.s. so what happened in panama? otherwise the information is fragmentary
        1. Lindon
          Lindon 12 October 2013 08: 42 New
          +8
          Why lie - where is it written that Kazakhstan is self-sufficient.
          It is written in Russian - if Russia (thanks to the oligarchs) will continue to bend, Kazakhstan is not ready to go with her to w .. u.
          Kazakhstan will enter into an alliance with Turkey or China as an alternative to the insane Russia (drunken Yeltsin’s fervor is still felt).
          1. hrych
            hrych 12 October 2013 09: 29 New
            +2
            Speak correctly about the insanity of Russia, which is trying to speak on an equal footing with Kazakhstan, when the Chinese are grabbing you and nothing else has been given (Turkey never shines to get out into global leaders, there are no prerequisites), then as they say feel the difference. Of course, there is also an alternative to the withdrawal of the NATO troops from Afghanistan, the great migration of peoples or the movement of great chaos, which the Kazakhs, sorry, are not able to withstand, but the territory of Kazakhstan is too rich in minerals, which again are necessary for the development of China. No offense, but most likely not far off is the partition of Kazakhstan between the Russian Federation and the PRC, to which Russia will be forced to partly surrender Central Asia and direct the movement of the ever-hungry PRC parallel to our possessions. Then, the Kazakh ethnos will really come ... well.
            1. andrei332809
              andrei332809 12 October 2013 09: 32 New
              -2
              I growl
              absolutely in the hole hi good
              1. Kasym
                Kasym 13 October 2013 00: 05 New
                +6
                Hrychy and Andrei. Imagine hypothetically the Chinese invasion of Kazakhstan, purely theoretically:
                1. Whether, in the case of China's success, it is the whole world. More than 100 nationalities live in Kazakhstan. From south Korea to Germany. The US and the EU give only a reason to besiege China. And they invested a lot in the Republic of Kazakhstan - exactly over 100 billion.
                2. China, like all world nuclear powers gave guarantees of protection of the sovereignty of the Republic of Kazakhstan after the transfer of poison. the weapon of the Russian Federation. That is, it violates the commitments made to the UN.
                3. Stand in the places of China. We will win the war well and get the raw materials, but we will get as the minimum economic blockade and the loss of all markets. And in the best war with the whole world. Do they need this?
                4. In the event of defeat, the loss of one of the sources of raw materials and the first oil and gas pipeline in the history of China due to a failure. And there may be a loss of one of the regions of China -CYAR (Yygy and Kazakhs). As well as the loss of all investments in the region. Neither the Uzbeks, nor the Kyrgyz, nor the Turkmens, nor the Tajiks will stand aside, because China is not beneficial to them instead of Kazakhstan. The next line for them. Is it necessary for the Chinese?
                5. It is necessary, I think, to know the level of relations between China and Kazakhstan. It took 4-5 months. after the appointment of Xi Jinping to the post. And Nazarbayev met with him already 4 times: the first time, almost immediately after his appointment, at one of the Chinese resorts, the second in St. Petersburg, the third in Kazakhstan, the fourth in Bishkek. All conceivable and inconceivable treaties on friendship, fraternity, etc. were signed. China's investment in Kazakhstan is over 1 billion. After the meeting, another 2 billion were signed in Kazakhstan. China responded very quickly to criticism in our media about the commodity orientation of China's investments. Please:
                1) Oil refinery
                2) Petrochemical complex
                3) The production of solar panels and windmills, tubes and something else.
                According to Chinese media, the most frequent meetings at the highest level in China are Kazakhstan. Moreover, we must pay tribute, they clearly fulfill their obligations, incl. 70-90% of home countries. staff in china. companies on ter. RK. In Kazakhstan, you are more likely to meet a Korean than a Chinese.
                Нy и 6. В истории наших взаимоотношений , так yж полyчилось , именно на наших саблях менялись династии в Китае . Либо нас нанимали , либо мы сами приходили . Именно из-за этих походов Китай построил свою Вел. Кит. Стенy и старался вести "изолированнyю" жизнь . Y нас нет чyвства страха перед китайцами . Помнится Чингиз-хан имел перед вторжением в Китай 95 тыс армию против 1 мил кит армии . Так что морально мы имеем перевес . Пyсть попробyют , тогда в месте единственного для тяж. техники места - Джyнгарские ворота они найдyт огромнyю могилy своих соотечественников .А вокрyг одни горы и заткнyть этy дыркy мы в состоянии . Только вот есть ли смысл Китаю полyчать вместо дрyжественной страны еще одного противника ? Y них кроме КНДР , России и Казахстана со всеми территориальные терки . Для них скорее Тайвань , Вьетнам и Лаос (две последние входили в Кантонское Княжество(Кантон ныне Гyанжоy) - одно из 7 китайских княжеств ) яв-ся задачей номер 1. Да и yдержать бы Тибет и СYАР .
                Hence, if you take the place of China, there are too great risks for the PRC. You should also look if the relations between the PRC-RK and the statements made by Xi Jinping made during your visit to Kazakhstan are of interest. hi
                1. hrych
                  hrych 13 October 2013 01: 11 New
                  +1
                  Kasim’s colleague, we are talking about the moment when, in essence, international law will collapse, as at the beginning of the last Great War, when all pacts and treaties ceased to be in effect, and the world is now balancing on the brink and an attack on Syria would be the beginning of this, i.e. the ability of the Israeli army to get close to the borders of Iran. After the efforts of Russia, when it became clear that it would not surrender Syria, the Israelis began to practice raids on the remote territory, i.e. it’s clear that this is Iran. Libyan and Iraqi wells are seized, and Iranian, where most of the Middle East oil is not under the control of the world government. China receives 80% of its oil by water through the bottle throat of Singapore, which will always be blocked and China will instantly die as a state due to the huge population. Vietnam does not own hydrocarbons, but it has a population of 90 million people and an army that kicked the backside of the states and gave horns to the Chinese themselves, and in Cambodia they dared the Maoist Polpot. Taiwan is a war with the USA. China, with a mess, is forced to go to Bl. The east by dry route, using the only trump card - the two-million-strong ground army, no other is given. The PRC will not be able to withstand a direct clash with either the Russian Federation or the United States; from here it will have to go between Afghanistan (consider NATO) and Russia. If Kazakhstan does not begin to weird, will be in the CU, under the nuclear umbrella of Russia, then this is one thing and the path will be through Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan with their privatization and the death of ethnic groups. All this will be with the consent of the United States and the Russian Federation, as The world will be divided again. What the PRC shares in Kazakhstan is a bad sign, investing money - a bad sign, building enterprises - is very bad, the superpower defends its investments by force if necessary. Read Albert Pike, who a hundred years ago announced the program of three world wars, with two everything went exactly according to plan. The third according to this plan eradicates Islam, i.e. In essence, the Russian Federation, NATO and the PRC will jointly liquidate Islamic states, with the privatization of their bowels, and if they cling, they will only share the cake, but they will not fight. I repeat, funny as it may seem, all the allies, like the Chinese party capitalists, are billionaires, are the Rockefellers and the other backstage of the USA and the EU. Little Dan didn’t deceive anyone, as it seems to some here, but was a member of a secret society that does one thing in the whole world. Russia is also an ally in finance and economics, and the Islamists are its enemies.
                2. andrei332809
                  andrei332809 13 October 2013 03: 47 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Kasym
                  Imagine hypothetically the Chinese invasion of Kazakhstan

                  good morning, Kasym.
                  and is this not happening only hypothetically because no matter how we look at solutions to the problems, the Soviet past is thoroughly laid down. And Moscow will not go anywhere - it will cover Kazakhstan, Ukraine, and Belarus with its umbrella ... and all, even the Baltic states .. Of course, Moscow has its own interests, but ... despite all the minor dirty tricks that the former republics throw up, this is not even questioned.
                  а вообще я не о том. гипотетически представим,что сейчас,в данный момент,идёт референдум(слово то какое...)-обьедениться в одну страну или каждому жить "самостийно"?каковы будут результаты?в России однозначно "за". и это не из желания помыкать "малыми" народами.Вы должны знать,да даже уверен,что знаете-никого никогда мы не "чмырили",пока все вели себя как люди.и разницы в национальностях нет.но почемуто за 20 лет так высоко голову задрал "суверенитет",причём по нацпризнаку,что я удивляюсь уровню промытия мозга и искажения истории,причем общей.
                  1. Marek Rozny
                    Marek Rozny 13 October 2013 09: 58 New
                    +2
                    Nifiga, you, Andrei, did not understand Kasym. As you got the idea that Kazakhstan exists solely thanks to Russia, you continue to think.
                    Kasym clearly laid out everything on the shelves, why China does not make sense to invade the war in Kazakhstan. Even if you ran through his text, you didn’t catch anything. Probably not going to.
                    1. andrei332809
                      andrei332809 13 October 2013 11: 25 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Marek Rozny
                      Nifiga, you, Andrei, did not understand Kasym. As you got the idea that Kazakhstan exists solely thanks to Russia, you continue to think.

                      nuuu, then the understander has not grown. and that Kazakhstan in its current form was formed precisely thanks to Russia and, subsequently, the internationalism of the communists, I have no doubt about this hi
                      я догадываюсь,что у Вас на данный момент "своя" история,но вдруг Вас заинтересует-автор Александр Сергеев "Петербургский посол"
            2. Lindon
              Lindon 12 October 2013 09: 36 New
              10
              An old tale - China has long been known in Kazakhstan for a long time - the joint history of 3 for thousands of years (under the Dzhambul, Arabs and Chinese fought for Central Asia - that was the case). You still have to study and study China. 12 hours of driving are closer to China to me than to Astana.
              1. hrych
                hrych 12 October 2013 10: 08 New
                +1
                To paraphrase, the Chinese have 12 hours to go to the tank for you, and then you can easily reach Astana. So naive that everyone is peaceful and fluffy or do not see what is happening in the world? Lenin seemed to open his eyes a little. And if you are studying Chinese history, then pay special attention to Chinese sophisticated tortures, Europeans will put you at the maximum for a count, and these ...
                1. Lindon
                  Lindon 12 October 2013 10: 16 New
                  +6
                  You are mistaken for 2 hours of flight time.
                  Only the forefront of China on the coast - Taiwan, islands, Japan, South. Korea and other US military bases including the entire US Pacific Fleet.
                  Kazakhstan is a deep rear for China - from all other sides it was overlaid as the USSR at one time.
                  China is building all the oil and gas pipelines through the KZ and Central Asia - in the event of a sea blockade.
                  If China takes Kazakhstan, Russia will have a border with it from Astrakhan to Vladivostok - and there the Chinese will destroy Topol directly. Do you know the location of mines with nuclear weapons and the routes of Topol? They are exactly along the border with Kazakhstan. Another 720 mines were flooded with concrete in Kazakhstan itself.
                  1. hrych
                    hrych 12 October 2013 10: 43 New
                    +1
                    The funny thing is that you know, I unfortunately do not know for it is a state secret. And one more nuance - bloody events took place in Zhonoazen and apparently the creators of flower revolutions took up your bowels, i.e. apparently the colony will be divided by the British flag. That China in general is not the enemy of America, that many people mistakenly think, their trade turnover, production located on its territory, and even the PRC’s funds in US bonds say. Mao and little Den sold their people into slavery to Western corporations under Khrushchev and built communism for the 150 million party elite, the Chinese, who are not shy about being billionaires. And always the USA, EU, Russia and China will agree on whom to devour. In the case of Russia, the question is sooner to feed whom, because they themselves have everything. If the EU and the US are guzzling the Middle East and Africa, then the Chinese have become difficult and there are no resources for development. Had to buy Africa, but there the colonialists with foreign legions and it turns out you can’t buy everything for greens. World oil remains for 50 years, at current consumption, further hunger and pestilence, but someone decided to live on it for several hundred years alone, and it is from explored reserves on Bl. In the east, and it is in Iran, they are preparing to eat it with a bite, and the PRC, in order to grab a piece of it, needs to get closer, the NATO soldiers privatized Afghanistan, frail sub-states from the former USSR remained, and this is the way to go. Russia is puffing up to leave its fragrant marks there, but it seems that the local elite after the departure of Bai, the influence of Russia evens out the path by its stupidity or vice versa from a great mind (no one has canceled the betrayal of its people, the Chinese will promise power and fed it all), but the Chinese do not even need slaves, 350 million domestic, working Gaster, but the Chinese, because of demographic experiments, have a problem with brides, and your women are being privatized for the first time. This is not a joke or sorcasm, these are terrible things.
                    1. Marek Rozny
                      Marek Rozny 12 October 2013 10: 47 New
                      +7
                      You would first see how the name of the Kazakh town is spelled, and then you would already make yourself a connoisseur of the situation in it.
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                      5. Lindon
                        Lindon 12 October 2013 13: 26 New
                        +3
                        Hamim, boy?
              2. Lindon
                Lindon 12 October 2013 10: 51 New
                +7
                EG is to blame for everything - education reforms are to blame. Powdered your head from the time of Khrushchev.
                After Khrushchev began anti-Stalinism, Mao realized Stalin’s mistake and conducted a cultural revolution. He repressed all those who oriented China to the USSR. It successfully cleansed and now China is flourishing - Deng Xiaoping - divorced the USA - raised the economy - retained the Communist Party and now China is a superpower, and the USSR is no longer Russia and the country of the 3go world. And when China was the 3 world.
                1. hrych
                  hrych 12 October 2013 11: 41 New
                  +1
                  150 million people who have social programs are flourishing in China, the rest - more than a billion do not have anything, a girl is born in a ditch with water, who will feed, pensions are granted only to party members. Your knowledge is amazing, especially that Pin spread the United States, Russia, if you don’t pull the donkey by the tail, is a superpower, but Kazakhstan is not even a third or a fourth-rate state. China was not the third world, it was always the center of culture, art and science, though the last one and a half millennia were ruled by the Chjurjeni, the Syanbi and, in the end, the descendants of the Chjurjeni Manjuri, but the Manjuri missed the technical revolution and made fireworks instead of rockets and torpedoes, and instead of parachutes the chief admiral built Empress palace in the form of a parachute, that turned China into a colony. Russia liberated China from the last colonists of the Kwantung, and Mao awoke so much that there were more corpses than from the colonialists with the Japs taken together. Soon you will have to join this Maoist paradise, only Nazarbayev will descend in his antiquity. Even the Maoists found a loyal follower in the person of Polpot, also a good example for the Kazakhs.
                2. Lindon
                  Lindon 12 October 2013 11: 51 New
                  +4
                  I understand you enviously. China is growing, Russia is also only in the opposite direction. 22 years showed - not enough? In 2030, the GDP of China's Sonjiang province will reach 3 trillion, in Russia 2 trillion. Think it over.

                  To increase your level of education in China, the middle class is not 150 million, but more than 350 million - i.e. comparable to the US population. China's consumption level is growing further.
                3. hrych
                  hrych 12 October 2013 12: 28 New
                  +1
                  This is not at all enviable, especially when Chinese factories pull a net between floors so that the asphalt does not get dirty with their flattened bodies. My education doesn’t need akyn’s songs at all, especially when they cite the USA as an example, where 100 million poor people of color, 50 million do not have health insurance, but a million millionaires and 40% of all earth’s resources are consumed, which is a billion Chinese who do not have social programs their consumption is certainly growing.
                4. Lindon
                  Lindon 12 October 2013 12: 37 New
                  +5
                  Again Fursenko worked on you. In the USA, not 100 million, but 45 million live below the poverty line.
                  You still don’t understand China wisely - how, having 1,5 billion of the population, they manage not only to survive, but to catch up with the USA.
                  From the Middle Ages to the top, China crawled right before our eyes starting from 1980x - for some 33 of the year.
                  If you look at the RSFSR 1986 of the year and the Russian Federation 2013 of the year, you will understand where the whole industries disappeared - machine-tool and machine-building.
                5. hrych
                  hrych 12 October 2013 13: 04 New
                  +1
                  Are you Chinese or Kazakh? If Kazakh, then the achievements of the Chinese are the death of your ethnic group. The fact that the USSR was spanking now is not really necessary, mechanical engineering has changed a lot, they used to make a thousand lathes and three thousand turners, work on them in three shifts, and now one machine performs a thousand times faster monipulation with a laser, one dozen programmers etc. At the moment, mechanical engineering in the Russian Federation, believe at a normal level. BMWs, Toyota, Renaults, Sangs, etc. are normally assembled at Russian enterprises. Shipbuilding stocks loaded to the eyeballs. Such a powerful USSR bought large-diameter pipes from NATO members, now Russia makes them itself and there are a lot of such examples. Russian engineering in the nuclear field is, in general, a separate issue. Here mechanical engineering of the former Union died irrevocably - this is a fact including and you. Your territory is decent, there are a lot of minerals, and there are 10 million Kazakhs, how can you resist the Chinese when you crawl out from under the Russian nuclear umbrella I have no idea. By the Mongoloid race you are drawn to the Chinese, by the language to the Turks, here you already have an America friend. In fact, what the Chinese do with the Uighurs, the Turks with the Kurds, and the staff with the Afghans, in general, they will do with you. Russia has offered you equal rights, no. By the way, the Russians are also starting to go wild, and ask the late Goebels a terrible thing, they gave blood to the impudent Georgians, I liked it so that the prospects are not very good.
                6. Lindon
                  Lindon 12 October 2013 13: 24 New
                  +8
                  Yes, you think for Russia. What do you climb to the Kazakhs and Kazakhstan. Thank God 22 of the year we live separately. We can look at the changes like separated neighbors.
                  There are enough problems in Russia - the Caucasus and Chechnya give Russia more problems than 1,5 billion China. For example, how many billion are the Kremlin investing in Chechnya? 50 billion?
                  Это как в поговорке "Увидеть соринку в чужом глазу".
                  We must rejoice that you have a buffer with China and Central Asia. And you had a border with them right away, and not beyond 2000 km, then you would have sang differently.
                7. hrych
                  hrych 12 October 2013 19: 30 New
                  +3
                  A colleague, firstly, if I had climbed a dirty trick on a Kazakh site, then yes. Chechens, I agree the problem is still the same, but in the war a new Russia was born in Chechnya, and the EBN Russia was lost. That's why we worry that the buffer is cracking at the seams. The heresy lasted 70 years about the love and friendship of peoples and ended with Ferghana and Karabakh, interests should rule. With the PRC, for information, there is a huge, longest border and there will be no problems and will not, as long as Russia is strong and can burn Beijing in five to ten minutes of flight time, with Khrushche the Maoists raised their tail, but their horns were quickly bent off and silence. And the so-called friendly border with you is just a stream of smelly Gaster and drugs, so the Chinese will solve this problem in no time.
  • Fin
    Fin 12 October 2013 11: 09 New
    +1
    Quote: Lindon
    If China takes Kazakhstan, Russia will have a border with it from Astrakhan to Vladivostok

    I don’t understand why are you happy? Today the front line is there, but first the rear areas must be secured.
    1. Lindon
      Lindon 12 October 2013 13: 08 New
      +7
      Many on the forum do not understand why the USSR created Mongolia and held troops there until 1989.
      Even if there were no Kazakhs and Kazakhstan, the Kremlin had to come up with such a people and country and keep it as a buffer between its deserted Siberia and the Far East.
      There are no personalities of the scale of Stalin-in Russia !!!
      It seems like a military forum - and you have to chew such elementary things.
      I understand there are many trolls, but there are sensible people too.
      Fursenko was not hooked on all the reforms.
      1. hrych
        hrych 12 October 2013 21: 16 New
        +3
        Thank you for chewing, because I thought that Mongolia still managed to correct Bogdykagen VIII since 1911 by the fall of the house of Manjuors, i.e. even under Nicholas II. In 1919, it was occupied by the Chinese, who was knocked out by himself, Baron Ungern, whom the Bolsheviks banged, and proclaimed the People’s Republic in 1924 after the death of Bogdykhan. Back in the 24th, Stalin was far from an omnipotent ruler.
  • Essenger
    12 October 2013 10: 34 New
    -3
    Quote: hrych
    No offense, but most likely not far off is the partition of Kazakhstan between the Russian Federation and China,

    The logic is iron)))
    Will the Americans see how you divide us? DO NOT tell)))))))) Yes, they will send you for Kazakh oil to the Stone Age))))
    1. Zhenya
      Zhenya 12 October 2013 10: 40 New
      +1
      Essenger Is it a nuclear weapon in the Stone Age? And where will the cloud go? Does it evaporate? You blurted out again without thinking, as in general and always.
    2. andrei332809
      andrei332809 12 October 2013 10: 43 New
      +3
      Quote: Essenger
      Will the Americans see how you divide us? DO NOT tell)))))))) Yes, they will send you for Kazakh oil to the Stone Age))))

      ahhh, that's where the dog rummaged. Yakkes are older brothers and defenders of Kazakhstan. went to hide, otherwise they’ll come recourse
      1. Essenger
        12 October 2013 11: 07 New
        +3
        Quote: andrei332809
        went to hide, otherwise they’ll come

        No, sleep well, you're in Orenburg)))
        1. andrei332809
          andrei332809 12 October 2013 11: 24 New
          +1
          Quote: Essenger
          you are in Orenburg)))

          Well, yes, next to it.
    3. hrych
      hrych 12 October 2013 11: 11 New
      +1
      The United States has a problem that Russia can send them to the Stone Age, and now it is possible for the PRC, although it has problems with the intercontinental, especially with split homing heads, and intercepts a few monoblocks. The abandonment of missile defense in Europe and the development of specialists on their territory say that the United States missed our missiles, because they didn’t do the system, but ours did a way to overcome it, so we focused on Chinese units. Plus, the Russian Federation has submarine missile carriers and a huge territory. We will have to live with the Russian threat, and America will no longer tolerate other threats. I repeat China is an ally of the United States, no matter how strange it may seem, China is an ally of the Russian Federation, but Russia is also an ally of the United States, only Russia has interceded for Syria ... In Iraq, in Afghanistan, in Libya, Russia gave the go-ahead, but it also participated directly, except Libya, in particular, armed the northern alliance and donated money to eliminate the Taliban, a transit point through Ulyanovsk, etc. The fact that our corporations operate in Iraq and Libya , again suggests why we eat trophies. America for a bunch of billions buys helicopters for Afghanistan, etc. In Syria, a separate topic is already discussed here, almost every day. You need to understand that graters between the EU, the USA, the Russian Federation and the PRC are a division of the pie and nothing more, India, the rest of the extras stand apart. From the time of the Yalta, Tehran and other conferences, a trio gathered and divided the world. Only the troika’s composition began to change a little, turned into a four and Churchill's hog was thrown out from there, and nothing changes, only for 10 years Russia was not there, but now in its place of honor and someone even clicked on the nose.
      1. Essenger
        12 October 2013 14: 28 New
        0
        Quote: hrych
        The United States has a problem that Russia can send them to the Stone Age

        А да, конечно забыл у вас же есть "Булава")))
        1. hrych
          hrych 12 October 2013 19: 38 New
          +3
          Ещё есть "Воевода" (Сатана, а не Астана), УР -100 (Стилет), "Тополь-М", "Ярс", "Синева", а у вас есть юрты, тоже хорошо
          1. Alibekulu
            Alibekulu 13 October 2013 18: 07 New
            +1
            You do not have a start, then a fall. At the expense of Soviet baggage, just hold on, but what did you do after the collapse? NOTHING, still Serdyukov will sit on the pope altogether. Scare our whales, if you haven’t been talking about for 20 years, now all the more so. I can’t understand one thing, if you are so smart, why are you so poor.
            1. hrych
              hrych 13 October 2013 23: 43 New
              +1
              Тополь-М, Ярс и Булава, да ещё макеевцы "Лайнер" сделали исключительно уже в РФ, как С-400, Искандер и пр. Сейчас технологии цифровые, а советское аналоговое оборудование не отвечает современным требованиям. При всех сложностях КБ сохранились и при нынешней политической воле нашего руководителя небо есть чем закрыть, в т.ч. и ваше. Уровень зарплат уж поверь, казахов выше, а по росту покупок новых автомобилей вообще на уровне. Чтоб не говорить глупости об экономике России прошу Вас читать сайт http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/, если датите подобную ссылку по РК, буду признателен. По китайцам я просто хочу предостереч, да думаю здравые казахи это и так осознают, уж зла казахам русские уж точно не желают. Про селения вокруг Байконура, вам скажу, что когда он прекратит свое существование, эти селения, страдающие в экологическом плане просто опустеют ибо живут только благодаря ему. Это, как с градообразующими предприятиями, закрывают грязную шахту, а потом поселок гибнет, т.к. не нужна ни сфера обслуживания, и крестьянину мясо продать некому и дорога бурьяном зарастет или песком засыплется.
    4. volkodav
      volkodav 12 October 2013 13: 32 New
      +1
      Dear brothers, Kazakhs, just answer one question why the states and NATO did not arrange a driban in Kazakhstan similar to Iraq’s Libya and Afghanistan. Probably because of the big and bright love for the Kazakhs?
      1. Zymran
        Zymran 12 October 2013 13: 37 New
        +4
        You yourself can answer why the states arrange it? And where would they bomb Kazakhstan?
      2. Lindon
        Lindon 12 October 2013 13: 46 New
        +4
        They would arrange - what are the benefits?
        1) Russia will lose landfills - one Sarah Shagan for what missile defense costs, Baikonur, etc.
        2) Russia will have to strengthen the longest and most unprotected border from Astrakhan to Mongolia - these are refugees and everything else.
        3) Loss of CSTO member - Kazakhstan has 2 in terms of number and combat effectiveness of the Air Force after Russia.
        Minuses -
        1) US loss of tens of billions of oil investment in the Caspian.
        2) The tension in relations with Russia and China - who will like the mess right in your backyard?
        3) It will be worth fabulous money. If in Kyrgyzstan - the revolution will cost 100 million, then in Kazakhstan it is 100 times more expensive.
        1. volkodav
          volkodav 12 October 2013 14: 13 New
          0
          laughing ridiculed, you value yourself very expensively, lifted the bar. Yes, it’s just that Russia didn’t allow this driban to be arranged. thankless you neighbors
          1. Lindon
            Lindon 12 October 2013 14: 21 New
            +5
            Glory to Tsar Gorbachev, EBN, Putin and Medvedev.
            We know how Gorbachev and EBN saved Iraq and Saddam, we know how they saved Serbia and Milosovic, we know how Medvedev saved Libya and Gaddafi ...
            Did everyone mention nobody forgot? Thank you for saving from the Kyrgyz, Georgian, Ukrainian revolutions - we ourselves are fools without the Kremlin.
            Who have not had time to sell from their old friends? Are Kazakhstan and Belarus the last?
            1. Zhenya
              Zhenya 12 October 2013 14: 54 New
              -2
              Lindon А Вы то чего сделали для этого? Кто Вы такие, чтобы осуждать наши действия, "крысы которые бегут с корабля" при первой же опасности ? Да это именно про Вас, какие Вы союзники? Союзников у России нет и друзей подавно! wink And do not touch the Serbs with their dirty little hands the son of the steppes, if you don’t think with your head, better keep quiet. Serbs are our brothers, and who are you?
            2. Essenger
              12 October 2013 15: 11 New
              +2
              Zhenya When will you liberate Constantinople?)))
            3. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 12 October 2013 15: 24 New
              +3
              Quote: Essenger
              When will you liberate Constantinople?)

              Given how Erdogan behaves, I think soon.
            4. Essenger
              12 October 2013 15: 29 New
              +4
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              Quote: Essenger
              When will you liberate Constantinople?)

              Given how Erdogan behaves, I think soon.

              The attempt is not torture, of course I can not wish you good luck. Excuse me
            5. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 12 October 2013 15: 37 New
              +3
              Quote: Essenger
              Try not torture

              Yes, we always beat the Turks, and if necessary, again pile on.
              Quote: Essenger
              Naturally I cannot wish you good luck.

              "И ближе мне берег турецкий"-понимаю laughing
            6. Zhenya
              Zhenya 12 October 2013 15: 44 New
              +3
              Essenge Alexander is right, 10 Russian-Turkish wars are behind him, the Turks have always been beaten.
            7. smersh70
              smersh70 12 October 2013 17: 08 New
              -2
              Quote: Marrying
              always beat the Turks.


              .. yeah, forget about the Turks .. they’re NOT your enemies))) the enemy is nearby .... at hand ... You better get ready for the actions of the Belarusian partisans on the amber banks .... wassat
            8. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 13 October 2013 03: 57 New
              0
              Quote: smersh70
              .. yes forget about the Turks .. they are not enemies to YOU))

              Yes, we are respected, as we ourselves will figure out who is our friend and who is our enemy.
  • Lindon
    Lindon 12 October 2013 16: 05 New
    +4
    It’s not good to sell brothers - how dare one condemn it.
    I understand your indignation - do not be afraid, I'm not in the lobe.
    30 pieces of silver to yourself.
  • Marek Rozny
    Marek Rozny 13 October 2013 10: 04 New
    +2
    Quote: Marrying
    Serbs are our brothers, and who are you?

    Serbs, Bulgarians, Czechs, Poles and other Slavic brothers in any war supported the enemies of Russia openly or veiled.
    Kazakhs in all wars were next to the Russians. Without any excuses and reservations.
  • Alibekulu
    Alibekulu 13 October 2013 18: 11 New
    +2
    What brothers are you to Serbs, threw them without shame and conscience. On the example of Serbia, you showed how you protect the brothers.
  • Zymran
    Zymran 12 October 2013 14: 24 New
    +4
    I repeat once again, why should the Americans arrange this? By the way, ask at your leisure who got Iraqi oil. Not a single American company is there. But there is Gazprom and Lukoil.
  • Fin
    Fin 12 October 2013 11: 05 New
    -2
    Quote: Lindon
    It is written in Russian - if Russia (thanks to the oligarchs) will continue to bend, Kazakhstan is not ready to go with her to w .. u.
    Kazakhstan will enter into an alliance with Turkey or China as an alternative to the insane Russia (drunken Yeltsin’s fervor is still felt).

    So far, you and I are fine. It will be bad to dump. These moods are known to the shepherd, and you are periodically driven into the herd, like lost ones. Sorry, it doesn’t work out differently.
    1. Lindon
      Lindon 12 October 2013 13: 55 New
      10
      Well, when the war was going on in Chechnya - where did the Chechens go to escape when the Terrible bombed? They went to Kazakhstan - and no one asked them why they came. In Kazakhstan, they understood - now Russia has a difficult period.
      Nothing that Kazakhstan has been friends with Russia for 22 of the year already - the CU has been created TOGETHER !!! In the CSTO, in the SCO and in all other conceivable and not conceivable organizations?
      Only now they slander Kazakhstan - believe more in rumors about NATO, US bases, etc.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  • Alexander Romanov
    Alexander Romanov 12 October 2013 08: 40 New
    0
    Quote: Lindon
    - You can build a bright future with both Turkey and China.

    Well good luck laughing
    1. andrei332809
      andrei332809 12 October 2013 08: 44 New
      0
      Quote: Alexander Romanov
      Well good luck

      also thought that they were waiting there with open arms fool
    2. Lindon
      Lindon 12 October 2013 08: 49 New
      +3
      Who good luck? Your oligarchs in Derby assets of Belarus? Russia has already been brought up to 1% of GDP growth.
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 12 October 2013 09: 26 New
        +6
        Quote: Lindon
        Who good luck?

        Good luck to you, aaaaaaa in Russia everything is bad, let's go to the Turks.
        AAAAAA the Turks are all bad, let's go to Kitaytsy, etc. How is this behavior called? wink
        1. andrei332809
          andrei332809 12 October 2013 09: 28 New
          0
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          in Russia everything is bad, let's go to the Turks.
          AAAAAA the Turks are all bad, let's go to Kitaytsy, etc. How is this behavior called
        2. Lindon
          Lindon 12 October 2013 09: 32 New
          +1
          Pragmatism.
          I understand when a friend gets drunk in Russia they don’t leave friends and get drunk together. In Kazakhstan - drinking friends are driven and coded, if they can’t cure them - they say they killed a friend and forget about him.
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 12 October 2013 10: 25 New
            +2
            Quote: Lindon
            Pragmatism.

            I am friends with those who are profitable or sleep with those who have more money, this is prostitution!
            Quote: Lindon
            I understand when a friend gets drunk in Russia they don’t leave friends and get drunk together

            One question, and who told you that Russia is merging? They constantly bury her, every year they say, Khan of Russia. Who?
          2. Orik
            Orik 12 October 2013 10: 47 New
            -4
            Wai-wai-wai, I completely forgot the Russian language, this is PROSTITUTION, although you gave yourself very pragmatically, and you got money.
          3. Kibalchish
            Kibalchish 12 October 2013 10: 53 New
            0
            And why should you try to build your future with someone else? Kazakhstan itself could try. And you can’t build a lot with the Chinese. A typical example is Tibet and East Turkestan.
          4. andrei332809
            andrei332809 12 October 2013 11: 12 New
            0
            Quote: Lindon
            Pragmatism.

            "неподкупная моя.вовремя предать-это не предать,это предвидеть" из к/ф"гараж"
        3. bask
          bask 12 October 2013 09: 34 New
          +1
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          AAAAAA the Turks are all bad, let's go to Kitaytsy, etc. How is this behavior called?

          Greetings to Alexander.
          No, all hurt yourself.
          Young people die like flies (certificates about laughter ... I write out, hang themselves).
          They have already announced that the enterprises will have a 4-day working week, with all the ensuing consequences.
          Why do we need a Turkish coast?
          Everything is nishtyak with us, turn on the box, there they will show everything and tell
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 12 October 2013 10: 27 New
            0
            Quote: bask
            Young people die like flies (he himself writes certificates about ... I write out, hanged

            Hi Bask! Ten years ago, the situation was many times worse.
            Quote: bask
            Already announced that the enterprises will have a 4-day work week

            Which ones?
            Quote: bask
            turn on the box

            The Olympic Games have not yet begun. I do not look at the box
            1. bask
              bask 12 October 2013 10: 49 New
              +1
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              Ten years ago, the situation was many times worse.

              Not anything like that, now much worse.
              In our region, almost all district hospitals have closed. There is a constant shortage of medical staff .. For 5-7 thousand .. rubles ... no one wants to plow for a month.
              Every day I visit home. How people live is HORROR.
              Once again, mortality increased, not only among the Russian population but also among the Kazakhs.
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              Which ones?

              At the railway, transport (ICP).
              1. Alexander Romanov
                Alexander Romanov 12 October 2013 11: 38 New
                0
                Quote: bask

                Not anything like that, now much worse.

                Hmm, is it worse now? People live differently now. I saw how people lived here 10 years ago. So, God forbid.
                Quote: bask

                At the railway, transport (ICP).

                Maybe I don’t know
                1. alone
                  alone 12 October 2013 17: 40 New
                  +2
                  not a forum, but a general staff of some kind. some are going to seize the straits, others are sharing Kazakhstan with China, the third is already arranging kirdyk around the world. some are fantasies.

                  and at that time all science fiction writers gathered around the computer, read comments, get up, go to another room and hang themselves for something that no matter how hard they tried, they could not have fantasized.
            2. Beck
              Beck 13 October 2013 09: 59 New
              +6
              YES, the USSR has collapsed and there are many reasons here, both economic and ideological.

              But Urashniki здесь плачут не о разрыве единого экономического пространства и потере единой политической платформы, они плачут именно по развалу империи и уязвленного этим, ложного понимания, менталитета "великорусскости". Урашникам по фиг равноправная солидарность и экономическое процветание им главное бывшие границы империи и довление Москвы над всеми проявлениями жизни.

              The new Union, under new economic conditions, without the ideology of communism, on an equal political basis, is NEEDED. And it somehow, but was created under the name of the CIS. Belarus even signed the Union Treaty with Russia, Kazakhstan proposed to conduct a common currency.

              Но, тут в 2000 году, в Кремле сменилась власть. Путин воспитанный КГБ в духе патриотизма, этот самый патриотизм воспринял в духе "великорусскости" и захотел собрать, что возможно, исключая Прибалтику, не в новый Союз, а под старую длань Москвы. И начать он решил с братских славянских народов, а как иначе.

              What Lukashenko perceived as an equal Union State, Putin wanted to perceive in the worst way. Putin did not want to see Belarus as equal, but Belarus in the form of the new province of Russia. It is from here, for several years of Lukashenko's kicks and to the ears of the propaganda press on both sides.

              At the same time, Putin wanted to draw Moscow and Ukraine into the orbit, and also not on equal terms. Hence, protectionist measures, tightening gas taps, gas price inflation, flooding Ukraine with a controlled press. But this should not be the case with the fraternal people. Of course, it was easier for Ukraine to join the CU than the EU. But when Russia sells gas to Europe at $ 200 (rounded off), and Ukraine the same cubic meter at $ 400, then fraternal feelings somehow melt away. Ukraine has repeatedly asked to lower the price, Moscow demanded political concessions for this, that is, it hoped to twist its hands with gas. And only now, when Ukraine has already firmly decided to sign an agreement with the EU, Moscow came to its senses. And I lowered the gas price to $ 200, and I’m ready to provide loans, but isn’t it too late?

              And precisely because of such a policy of Moscow in the last decade, Belarus and Kazakhstan have firmly decided - to be Economic integration. There is no political, in the form in which the Kremlin sees it, that is, the revival of the old, under the guise of a new one. The hand of Moscow does not appeal to anyone. Instead of create a true equal new UnionThe Kremlin, the last decade, wanted to revive the hegemony of Moscow. And such a policy of the Kremlin has failed. Belarus and Kazakhstan did not succumb to this. And Ukraine, Moscow pushed away from itself, it seems completely.
  • lexe
    lexe 13 October 2013 15: 52 New
    +1
    You forget that the main strategic weapon of Russia is not nuclear weapons but brains with a tendency to fundamental knowledge. And this is ... an icebreaker of progress.
    Well, now think what are our chances to equip the future of the Russian people?
    They are 100%.И в надежде быть и плыть в месте с ледоколом развернется нешуточная борьба.Так что мы способны ни по детцки "развести" на дружбу any! a country of the world. But if there is no icebreaker ... then no one will sail anywhere, visible efforts will not break the ice.
    And on the knee-elbow, we are intentionally Russian Russians. So that the rest would be a little more cheerful.But the old show is no longer rolling, we are tired.And what is surprising, with all the hidden envy of the Russians, we will get up and shake off. And no one will even pickle!
    Welcome to the new show.But tickets for a new show may not be enough for everyone ...
    And you don’t need to throw tantrums near the ticket office bully . We ourselves can throw such a tantrum, just with a howl.
    For mutual understanding panimash. laughing
  • Akim
    Akim 12 October 2013 07: 06 New
    +2
    Все это конечно не весело, но почему статья в "Военном обозрении"? Из-за краткого упоминания про ШОС?
    1. Zhenya
      Zhenya 12 October 2013 07: 08 New
      -2
      Akim, Military Review at such a pace, will soon turn into a yellow press, do not be surprised.
      1. Lech from our city
        Lech from our city 12 October 2013 07: 12 New
        +2
        It does not turn the article throws everyone, with the approval of the moderators.
        And even if it’s empty in content, it’s possible to understand the direction of an information attack by throwing it in.
        I also sometimes can not understand who and for what purpose it does?
        1. RA77
          RA77 12 October 2013 08: 41 New
          +1
          Quote: Lech from our city
          I also sometimes can not understand who and for what purpose it does?

          Like who? If about Kazakhstan and Russia, then who is clear. Essenger This little provocateur trying to mow under the troll. He divorced you last time to srach and this time he is trying.
          Wait for his next comment that he is against TS and so on and so forth.
          1. Zhenya
            Zhenya 12 October 2013 08: 56 New
            +1
            RA77 Oh yes, here for a long time everyone knows that Essenger balobol and idle talk. Just why the moderators publish it. But you don’t need to be offended by the blessed, it’s a sin wink
            1. xetai9977
              xetai9977 12 October 2013 10: 27 New
              +5
              Не говорите про всех. Я лично считаю Эссенджера одним из редких пользователей, кто не боится высказывать собственное мнение и идёт так сказать "против течения". Надо уважать чужое мнения, даже если оно не совпадает с вашим.
              1. Zhenya
                Zhenya 12 October 2013 10: 37 New
                0
                It’s hard to argue with you, but a person claims a lot, but does not confirm with facts, hence the name of idle talk and balobol.
                1. Essenger
                  12 October 2013 10: 52 New
                  +7
                  Quote: Marrying
                  a person claims a lot, but does not confirm with facts, hence the name of idle talk and balobol

                  And this is said by the person who promised to bomb the steppe after the opening of the Vostochny cosmodrome, because Baikonur will be closed and there is no need in Kazakhstan))) for me, you are a balabol)))
                  go release Constantinople)))
                  1. Zhenya
                    Zhenya 12 October 2013 11: 02 New
                    -2
                    Essenger Напомню Вам тут при всех, моя цитата "Зачем бомбить степь", цитата Essenger "обещал разбомбить степь" ,да Вы ещё и лгун! Переворачиваете слова, не хорошо! wink
                    1. Essenger
                      12 October 2013 17: 37 New
                      +4
                      Zhenya (1) September 25, 2013 16:42 ↑
                      Essenger Of course, why bombard the steppes? While there is a spaceport, you need ....but for now ..

                      If the quote is complete))) Do you think we do not understand the Russian language?
                      1. Zhenya
                        Zhenya 13 October 2013 01: 53 New
                        +1
                        You don’t even understand the essence of the expression, as long as there is a cosmodrome, you are needed, because our interests are there, they will transfer the cosmodrome to Vostochny ... there will be no more interests in your steppes and you will not be needed. You do not understand Russian! All kinds of phraseological turns are not known to you wink Вы лгун и балобол я Вам ещё раз говорю, Вы все пытаетесь оправдаться, первый закон юриста знаете? "Оправдание признак вины".
                      2. Essenger
                        13 October 2013 09: 23 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Marrying
                        Вы все пытаетесь оправдаться, первый закон юриста знаете? "Оправдание признак вины".

                        laughing Justify before whom? in front of you? But do not you care about honor?)))))
          2. Essenger
            12 October 2013 10: 36 New
            +6
            Quote: Marrying
            Oh yes here everyone has long known that Essenger

            do everyone know me? hi a huge honor)))
          3. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny 12 October 2013 10: 42 New
            +9
            Essenger, not against the Russians or anyone. He is against the creation of the Eurasian Union. This is his opinion. And his opinion is shared by many Russians in Russia.
            In Kazakhstan, the majority of residents FOR the creation of an equal alliance with neighbors (and not just Russia), but many Kazakhs see the Kremlin sometimes trying instead of an equal union to stupidly crush its neighbors. These desires, even here on the site, are voiced in plain text. Like, Russia is the crown of creation and the smartest, and the rest should dance in front of us.
            From a fig whether such a position will cause the neighbors a desire to unite. The fact that Russia is larger in number does not mean that Russians are the smartest in the CIS or the most worthy. The history and culture of neighboring countries is no worse than Russian. You simply do not know her, and from there the roots of chauvinism, which the neighbors see a mile away.
            Если русские будут и дальше считать себя "самыми великими и красивыми", а остальных деревенщиной, зоофилами или пастухами - то вы не только будущий Союз просрете, но и саму Россию.
            Ессенгер против Союза, потому что считает, что русские в ближайшее время не изменятся и будут вести такую же похабную культурную политику, какую мы видели в недавнем прошлом. Мне понятны его опасения. Обрусевать казахи дальше не хотят. Мы - казахи, а не русские, китайцы или американцы. И хотим оставаться казахами. Но для многих русских идеальный сосед - это обрусевший казах, татарин, белорус, украинец, грузин, которые будут поддакивать "русская культура - бхай-бхай, великая и недосягаемая, а наши культуры - г.овно-г.овно".
            Kazakhs perceive the future Union as a confederation of equal peoples, and in Russia many perceive the future Union as the reincarnation of the RUSSIAN empire. And we need it?
            1. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 12 October 2013 11: 39 New
              0
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              . He is against the creation of the Eurasian Union. This is his opinion. And his opinion is shared by many Russians in Russia.

              Yes there are, Nemtsov and others like him, well, and their boast
            2. avt
              avt 12 October 2013 12: 17 New
              0
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              Kazakhs perceive the future Union as a confederation of equal peoples, and in Russia many perceive the future Union as the reincarnation of the RUSSIAN Empire

              Finally ! And that’s all Eurases, Eurases.
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              And we need it?

              Not, really, there is already the CIS. Well, why the hell do we need another bunch of parasites in the new presidium and various committees?
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              and in Russia, many perceive the future Union as the reincarnation of the RUSSIAN Empire.

              Вот и я говорю что России все эти квазисоюзы не нужны . Ничего кроме криков про ,,равенство" и ,,ущемление" национальных достоинств всех частей новых великих мы не слышим ,а еще пожелания нам самим стать поменьше .Ну так своих внутри хватает ,что бы еще со стороны нам указывали как жить . Вот давайте мозг не пудрить и стройте свое национальное государство ,ТС развивайте и хватит пока ,а конфедерации мы разные уже проехали ,с Батькой в частности ,ничего путного ,одни истерики .
            3. Ram chandra
              Ram chandra 12 October 2013 14: 39 New
              +3
              I subscribe to every word.
            4. xetai9977
              xetai9977 12 October 2013 16: 54 New
              +7
              Примечательно,что самое большое число комментов собирают те статьи ,где "обсуждают" Украину,Азербайджан и Казахстан. Так сказать "записные недоброжелатели России" для некоторых форумчан. Они же и "разоблачают " несуществующие заговоры, и выносят "приговоры",как правило весьма нелестные для этих 3 стран. И "вина" их в том,что они "посмели" идти своим путём,не спросив "высочайшего" позволения как им развиватся и с кем дружить. Похоже что политика правительства находит отклик и среди обывателей.Некоторое время назад я вместе с коллегой были откомандированы в Москву по делам фирмы. "Спасибо" принимавшей стороне,нас поселили в каком-то кишевшем тараканами обшежитии (хотя месяц назад приняли их представителей в "Шератоне" за наш счёт). И каждый раз полицейский перед входом требовал наши паспорта,5-6 раз за день,хотя нас прекрасно знал в лицо,и видел не небритого торговца, а солидных людей в костюмах и при галстуках с "дипломатами" в руках. И смотрел он вовсе не на паспорта, а ехидно ухмыляясь смотрел нам в лицо,поглаживая дубинку,мол,начнёте протестовать, отлуплю.На наше недовольство принимающая фирма советовала "не придавать значения". Такое вот "уважение" к гостям и партнёрам.
        2. Essenger
          12 October 2013 10: 44 New
          +3
          Quote: RA77
          If about Kazakhstan and Russia, then who is clear. Essenger

          For all the time I’ve been here, I added only 12 articles, 2 of them about the spaceport and only this article about the vehicle) The rest are not about us at all))) So don’t drive)))

          Quote: RA77
          that little provocateur trying to mow under the troll.

          And who am I provoking?)))
      2. Yura
        Yura 12 October 2013 16: 40 New
        +1
        Quote: Lech from our city
        And even if it’s empty in content, it’s possible to understand the direction of an information attack by throwing it in.
        I also sometimes can not understand who and for what purpose it does?

        Очередная проверка на вшивость, отслеживают реакцию, анализируют ну и делают выводы соответственно, а дальше нащупав слабые места следующий ход. Кстати статья из русской версии германской "Deutsche Welle".
        1. Essenger
          12 October 2013 16: 49 New
          +4
          Quote: Jura
          Another check for lice, monitor the reaction, analyze well and draw conclusions accordingly,

          It turns out I'm checking and analyzing all of you))) I threw one article and that's it))) I was always interested in this question, why are there any kind of conspiracy theory in Russia, etc.
          1. Yura
            Yura 12 October 2013 17: 18 New
            +1
            Quote: Essenger
            It turns out I'm checking and analyzing you all)))

            А кто сказал что я вас имел в виду. Я же написал: "Кстати статья из русской версии германской "Deutsche Welle". Что касается вас, то наверно вы совсем от нечего делать статью выложили?
  • Essenger
    12 October 2013 15: 14 New
    +3
    Quote: Akim
    Все это конечно не весело, но почему статья в "Военном обозрении"? Из-за краткого упоминания про ШОС?

    And what does the SCO have to do with the word military? Do not make me laugh)))
  • Valery Neonov
    Valery Neonov 12 October 2013 07: 10 New
    -2
    hi What In this case, Moscow can take advantage of the territorial remoteness between Minsk and Astana and work in the directions Russia-Belarus, Russia-Kazakhstan ... And, if possible, reduce the volume of trade between Kazakhstan and Belarus.
    1. Semurg
      Semurg 12 October 2013 14: 35 New
      +4
      Quote: Valery Neon
      hi What In this case, Moscow can take advantage of the territorial remoteness between Minsk and Astana and work in the directions Russia-Belarus, Russia-Kazakhstan ... And, if possible, reduce the volume of trade between Kazakhstan and Belarus.

      divide and rule?
  • shpuntik
    shpuntik 12 October 2013 07: 10 New
    +6
    "Вопросы политической интеграции, введения единой валюты и создание единого эмиссионного центра - это главный камень преткновения в отношениях стран будущего Евразийского союза - России, Казахстана и Беларуси",

    Without a single currency, nothing will be the foundation. With Lukashenko, there were agreements about this for a long time, but the mustachioed changed his mind. Lucky with him Belarusians good But, now, as in Krylov’s fable:
    By the way, here is a map of the Russian Empire, until 1917. And why was the king and his family slaughtered? Has it gotten better? What a pancake for the yoke is: first dispossessed of all, then dispossessed again, only a voucher. Dialectical materialism however ... fellow

    1. andrei332809
      andrei332809 12 October 2013 07: 15 New
      +3
      Quote: shpuntik
      But, now, as in Krylov’s fable

      "однажды лебедь раком щука
      туда-сюда таскать собрался".?
      1. Valery Neonov
        Valery Neonov 12 October 2013 07: 21 New
        +2
        Exactly:
        When there is no agreement in the comrades ... however, all this is sad. recourse
      2. shpuntik
        shpuntik 12 October 2013 07: 55 New
        +1
        Quote: shpuntik
        But, now, as in Krylov’s fable
        "однажды лебедь раком щука
        туда-сюда таскать собрался".?

        This is so a guest worker in Moscow, the Russian language will take on the exam laughing .
        But seriously, we still didn’t have enough to butt with Kazakhstan and Belarus, then in general there are no loans. War is needed to unite. As Sergius of Radonezh walked between the princes, persuaded to make peace, so now: shtetl kings. Only Russia is already different, Sergius of Radonezh is not unfortunately.
    2. Orik
      Orik 12 October 2013 10: 50 New
      +2
      He changed his mind, because it’s impossible to live with our ghouls, we all cut ourselves in vain, this is not a problem of peoples, but those in power who are interested in loot and power. Here are the clans and fighting.
      Unfortunately, Russia is unattractive with the current government.
  • ia-ai00
    ia-ai00 12 October 2013 07: 19 New
    +5
    Дааа... с утра настроение испортили. У Астаны, и, что ещё печальней, как оказалось, и у Минска, очень интересное понимание Союза получается: - значит выгодно пропихивать свою продукцию и пользоваться "по дешёвке" ресурсами - пожалуйста, а вот -"дружить" можем и с вашими врагами... Ну, ладно, Астана - Азиатский менталитет, но вот Минск... эээх..., значит у России точно, только два ДРУГА - АРМИЯ и ФЛОТ. И нечего тогда на территории двух "союзников" размещать свою самую секретную военную технику, а то они со своими ДРУЗЬЯМИ - аМерами и ГЕЙроповцами, не дай БОГ, в сторону России и повернут это же оружие.
  • SAG
    SAG 12 October 2013 07: 22 New
    +2
    Where is your vaunted democracy ??? Ask the population if people want to live in a single strong state like the USSR was. I am sure most will speak out for! In 1991, such a survey was conducted, from 75% to 90% were in favor, depending on the republic ... now, of course, less.
    Only as practice has shown, they decided everything at the top anyway in their own way. And now it will be the same.
  • NSG42
    NSG42 12 October 2013 07: 29 New
    +1
    Quote: Lech from our city
    In a single state, we already lived — alas, the khans, bais, riches, and basmachis have tasted the sole power and do not intend to give it away.

    And so they destroyed the GREAT TARTARIA.
  • borisjdin1957
    borisjdin1957 12 October 2013 07: 35 New
    +3
    from the Don.
    And I’m not surprised that in; Military Review: such an article. Where the economy is, there is politics and its military component. And not everything is settled down in the SCO! Leadership elections in Minsk and Astana will show the SCO's vitality. As long as there is no exhaust from the SCO!
  • EGORKA
    EGORKA 12 October 2013 07: 37 New
    +1
    TS is an economic union of the CSTO-military alliance, and together, whatever you say, this is a political alliance. Of course, at this time it is limited to a certain point, but at this stage this is enough.
  • Vladimir.z.
    Vladimir.z. 12 October 2013 07: 39 New
    +1
    Quote: mirag2
    Yes, of course .... they want two chairs.


    Ка говорил У.Черчиль "Политика это искусство возможного..." вот коллеги из ТС и пытаются для себя выторговать все по максимуму
    1. ia-ai00
      ia-ai00 12 October 2013 08: 28 New
      -2
      As if them МИМО этих "двух", одним "местом" не приЗемлиться.!
  • Kolyan 2
    Kolyan 2 12 October 2013 07: 40 New
    -1
    Author Galina Petrovskaya
    Why pedrit, look at the author of the article for a custom-made sou. And about the TS this is still a question and rather a positive one. I think so.
  • EGORKA
    EGORKA 12 October 2013 07: 42 New
    +2
    Quote: ia-ai00
    Дааа... с утра настроение испортили. У Астаны, и, что ещё печальней, как оказалось, и у Минска, очень интересное понимание Союза получается: - значит выгодно пропихивать свою продукцию и пользоваться "по дешёвке" ресурсами - пожалуйста, а вот -"дружить" можем и с вашими врагами... Ну, ладно, Астана - Азиатский менталитет, но вот Минск... эээх..., значит у России точно, только два ДРУГА - АРМИЯ и ФЛОТ. И нечего тогда на территории двух "союзников" размещать свою самую секретную военную технику, а то они со своими ДРУЗЬЯМИ - аМерами и ГЕЙроповцами, не дай БОГ, в сторону России и повернут это же оружие.


    So it is, Russia pays for the union and its ambitions to rise again, and naturally it enjoys these, the same Lukashenko, it’s good to at least fight on the Divine))
    1. Anatole Klim
      Anatole Klim 12 October 2013 07: 52 New
      +3
      Quote: EGORKA
      Lukashenko, it’s good that he even fights for the Divine)

      The Institute of Economics of the National Academy of Sciences of Belarus estimated Russian subsidies to the Belarusian economy in 2012 at $ 9,9 billion due to preferential prices for gas and oil, but was too shy to take into account income from the solvent scheme.
      When calculating gas subsidies, Russian gas prices were compared for Belarus and Ukraine - respectively $ 168 and $ 430 dollars per thousand cubic meters. In 2012, Belarus imported 20,3 billion cubic meters, which gives the amount of gas subsidies of $ 5,3 billion.
      Last year, Belarus duty-free imported 21,3 million tons of oil. If the price of Russian oil included an export duty, Belarus would transfer $ 8,4 billion to the budget of the Russian Federation (the value of the export duty at the end of 2012 - $ 396,5 per ton) was used for the calculation. At the same time, in 2012 Belarus transferred $ 3,8 billion of export duties on petroleum products to the budget of the Russian Federation. Thus, according to the IE at the National Academy of Sciences of Belarus, the Russian oil subsidies to the Belarusian economy in 2012 amounted to $ 4,6 billion.
      It should be noted that the Institute’s experts were embarrassed to add another $ 1,5-2 billion to the amount of subsidies that Belarus earned last year on a solvent scheme for exporting oil products (export of oil products under the guise of solvents plus duty-free export of biodiesel), which avoids the transfer of duties to the budget RF
      In addition, duty-free import of Russian oil to the Republic of Belarus allows saving significant funds on interest on bank loans for the purchase of this oil. In the case of payment of the aforementioned duty - $ 8,4 billion, oil traders would have to give banks about a tenth of this amount (oil loan rates are 10-12% per annum) or about $ 800 million.
      Thus, the Institute of Economics did not include solvent-credit subsidies in the amount of about $ 2,8 billion, which together gives us $ 12,7 billion by the end of the year or more than 1 billion monthly.
      The calculations of the Institute of Economics of the National Academy of Sciences of Belarus are published in the journal Banking Vesnik.
  • andruha70
    andruha70 12 October 2013 07: 45 New
    +3
    Experts explained to DW why Moscow is losing influence on its allies.
    одни "иксперды" объяснили другим "икспердам"... lol как уже задолбали эти "иксперды"... angry
  • aud13
    aud13 12 October 2013 07: 47 New
    -1
    For some reason, I was not even surprised at the position of either Nazarbayev or Lukashenko.
    After all, in fact, they never backed away from her. While you can pump something from Russia - a smile on his face and a hot hug. As soon as parity is established in this matter, or it seemed to them that they are losing something, then they immediately bayonet - screaming to heaven in general, Russia is bad.
    Moreover, it is not necessary to deflate in the sense of raw materials, but it also includes loans, political influence and support, the acquisition of military equipment at preferential prices, and defending their interests in the international arena.
    As soon as tensions with Ukraine began, then for some reason the thought occurred to me what it means soon Old Man Lukashenko will again put forward his demands. In general, they actually already sounded. Now on Putin, Medvedev and Gazprom there will be a concerted attack from both Kiev and Minsk.
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 12 October 2013 11: 03 New
      +7
      Well, and what is Kazakhstan pumping out of Russia? Oil? Loans? Or are you defending some of our interests in the international arena? Which ones exactly?
      We buy weapons at prices set for the CSTO participants. We protect the Russian Urals and Western Siberia with your weapons, bought for our money.
      Well, you can break the CSTO and begin to create a powerful military group on the basis of the central military district. Let's create large military forces in Orenburg, Chelyabinsk and Omsk to protect these areas.
      Well, also hang a thorn on the Kazakh-Russian border. Consider that it will be more profitable for you - to sell weapons to the Kazakhs, or to maintain their armies on the border with Kazakhstan?
      By the way, Russia also buys weapons from Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan. At CSTO prices. There are small amounts, but nevertheless the rules are the same for everyone. Belarus also sells weapons to Kazakhs at CSTO domestic prices, but will not be hysterical that Kazakhs milk it.
    2. T80UM1
      T80UM1 12 October 2013 13: 43 New
      +2
      Well, yes, they should cave in under your tillage of convicts, allow to establish concepts instead of laws to rob and ruin their peoples ...
    3. Zymran
      Zymran 12 October 2013 13: 49 New
      +6
      I wonder what kind of loans Kazakhstan is pumping from Russia? Belarus - yes. Feeds from Russian subsidies. What are our interests in the international arena?
  • major071
    major071 12 October 2013 07: 48 New
    +6
    Agree anyway. Each of the three leaders of Russia, Kazakhstan and Belarus wants to grab more from the TS. First, they will make minor concessions to each other, and then they will go on the thumb. Or maybe Kazakhstan and Belarus want to look at Ukraine’s integration into the EU?
  • Bosk
    Bosk 12 October 2013 08: 01 New
    +3
    We are fixated on the Union, we must start at least with the confederation of republics, with our own currency, constitution, common border, mobile group of troops, customs, police and other trifles. Well, after that, when the first stage is already settled, you can already think about the Union, although ... it’s probably better to stop at the confederation, because maybe someone doesn’t know, but in 88-90, one very national party of one Baltic republic proposed a project of the confederation on the basis of the Union Comrade Gorbachev, he categorically rejected this idea, as a result, this party joined the independence movement where it played a significant role in the issue of the Baltic withdrawal from the Union, and in fact at the very beginning the guys from this party did not even plan to withdraw ..., I’m the fact that by way of a confederation of peoples it can perhaps somehow solve the national question.
  • EGORKA
    EGORKA 12 October 2013 08: 12 New
    +4
    Quote: DC 3
    And why are these rogues needed? There’s little sense from them (well, maybe Armenia is more or less)


    This is the undisguised Russian chauvinism, which repels peoples from Russia. This is clear?
    Russia itself is a poor country, the pants are kept only at the expense of oil, gas and other natural resources. What is present-day Russia without the sale of resources ?. Nothing - immediately tear and share. Integration, even if at first it is such a vital step. So that any Taliban-Shahid scum would not creep apart, if you do not twist the economy here, the bases and all that.


    It’s more likely realism) but they don’t talk about it in good taste. Damn, did you all get to the Russian oil?) It certainly helps, but not to everyone, some people have a lot of this oil too, so what? they don’t build rockets and planes, tanks, nuclear weapons and nuclear power plants, icebreakers, factories, etc., do you understand my idea? Take your Kazakhstan: a large territory, there is oil and other resources, 20 years have passed and what? Have you become Sweden? Oil and gas taught you how to make rockets? I don’t see your pants at all yet, I’m exaggerating of course ... So there’s no need for oil, by the way it didn’t fall from the sky, we had to fight a lot.
  • EGORKA
    EGORKA 12 October 2013 08: 18 New
    +1
    we will not build a new USSR, this is not necessary. We need an alliance where all its members look and go one way, for the benefit of all. This is quite feasible while all members retain their sovereignty, everything else is agreed.
    1. Lindon
      Lindon 12 October 2013 08: 35 New
      +7
      How to build the USSR - when in Russia everything belongs to the oligarchs.
      Only Lukashenko has 70% owned by the state.
      The USSR needs to build oligarchs to the wall - and then we'll talk.
      1. Zhenya
        Zhenya 12 October 2013 08: 41 New
        +3
        Why to the wall ?? Confiscation in full and on uranium mines.
        1. Lindon
          Lindon 12 October 2013 08: 54 New
          +8
          "Если хочешь править миром - сначала наведи порядок в своей юрте" Чингисхан.
          There are two types of state governance - European and Eastern (Chinese). Under what type of government has Russia achieved great ups? Stalin - knew that the eastern type of governance is more suitable for the mentality of Russia - therefore, he achieved the greatest results.
          Lukashenko has more of an eastern type of control - in a geyropa this type is called dictatorial.
          What the European type leads Russia to - it’s already clear - the oligarchy.
          1. Zhenya
            Zhenya 12 October 2013 09: 00 New
            -3
            The geyropa with its tolerance will bend after 100 years, but cruelty will not go too far, cruelty breeds rigidity.
  • Vorchun
    Vorchun 12 October 2013 08: 57 New
    0
    Так и хочется сказать "Ну начните хоть с чего то, с экономики, так с экономики. Всё и сразу, да ещё и как попало, зачем ?
  • RUSS
    RUSS 12 October 2013 09: 17 New
    -3
    Quote: Lindon
    Do not forget your roots.
    Russia with the oligarchs pulls the vehicle in w ... u
    Kazakhstan always has a choice - not to succeed with Russia - it is possible to build a bright future with Turkey and China.
    Not the fact that Russia will rise with a knee-elbow.

    Kazakhstan is standing at the knee-elbow, and waiting for who will pay the most so that they will blow him!
    1. Lindon
      Lindon 12 October 2013 09: 22 New
      0
      Well, GDP growth of 1% in Russia versus 5% in Kazakhstan.
      1. Zhenya
        Zhenya 12 October 2013 09: 33 New
        +1
        Lindon And what can Kazakhstan do with 5% even in the regional arena? You yourself know the answer.
        1. Lindon
          Lindon 12 October 2013 09: 45 New
          +6
          Kazakhstan will continue to grow.
          We are behind the advanced countries by 50-100 years. we
          должны пробежать это расстояние в 10 лет, либо нас сомнут" Сталин.
          To do something, you must be the most powerful and capable of doing something.
          Take a look at Singapore and Malaysia. Once, Malaysia wanted to devour Singapore - Singapore has pumped up muscles so much that Malaysia is even afraid to look towards Singapore.
        2. Alibekulu
          Alibekulu 12 October 2013 10: 00 New
          +4
          And on a fig to prove something to us, we do not have imperial manners. Let live peacefully. We do not need to prove anything to anyone, unlike you.
          1. avt
            avt 12 October 2013 12: 22 New
            0
            Quote: Alibekulu
            Let live peacefully. We do not need to prove anything to anyone, unlike you.

            Tell Nazarbayev, he has been worn with Eurases since the beginning of the 90s.
            1. Zymran
              Zymran 12 October 2013 12: 30 New
              +1
              So send it to hell, we will only be glad.
              1. avt
                avt 12 October 2013 13: 17 New
                +2
                Quote: Zymran
                So send it to hell, we will only be glad.

                Yeah, happily declare that the Mperts interfere in the internal affairs of an independent nation-state?
                1. Zymran
                  Zymran 12 October 2013 13: 19 New
                  +1
                  If you send it with all its integration projects, then what is this interference in the internal business?
                2. Lindon
                  Lindon 12 October 2013 13: 27 New
                  +4
                  Well, Russians can’t teach everyone around them hi .
                  Such a nature.
      2. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 12 October 2013 11: 43 New
        -1
        Quote: Lindon
        Well, 1% GDP growth in Russia

        4 days ago - The world's economic growth in 2013 will be 2,9%, the highest rates in the BRICS countries.www.itar-tass.com/c16/905309.html
        1. Lindon
          Lindon 12 October 2013 12: 27 New
          +2
          Forgive the gullible Are you ours - China is the BRICS (Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa)?
          Kaku Russia the highest pace Azhv 2,9% against Chinese miserable 8-9% ???
    2. buzer
      buzer 12 October 2013 09: 30 New
      +7
      выбирайте выражения , а лучше идите на сайты для педиков ,там вам за такие выражения типа "вдул" , "коленно-локтевом положении" будут ставить много плюсов ...
  • Averias
    Averias 12 October 2013 09: 49 New
    +3
    Цитата из статьи: "пытаясь воспользоваться ситуацией, когда Путин слаб и более сговорчив, потому что на глазах теряет Украину"

    Как показывает время. Путин никуда не спешит и никуда не опаздывает. Разговоры о его "слабости" и "сговорчивости", всего лишь треп.Несясь в бешеном, стремительном потоке мировой политики, он умудряется обходить практически все "подводные камни" и не допускать откровенных ляпов. На счет этого союза, хехе, правильно что Казахстан и Белоруссия чего то там гудят. Есть такой термин - дезинформация. Так как противников этого союза, пруд пруди(весь Запад), то не нужно что бы этот союз возник без сучка и задоринки. Должны быть "трудности". Вот мы и создаем их искусственно. Мы же не знаем(а ведь мы не знаем), того, что происходит в реале за "кулисами".
    If we carefully analyze the situation, we will see that the noise around this union has been standing for a long time. But still, everything is heading to its logical conclusion.
    Lukashenko is very comfortable with his statements (he doesn’t go into his pocket for words) and everyone is used to it. And he, in general, is an intelligent person.

    P.S. Для тех, кто орет про то, что нафиг нам этот союз, дескать в стране всё плохо. А как можно поднимать страну, не укрепив ее внешне? Не подняв статус России как равной. Только заткнув рот Западу и заставив его, нас уважать(боятся). Только после этого можно приступать, к построению "светлого будущего" внутри страны.

    Ready for the cons fellow
  • bddrus
    bddrus 12 October 2013 09: 58 New
    +2
    the created Eurasian Union should be an economic, not a political union
    - passes to the west, probably in the calculation of loans, so that they do not spread rot in Europe, for it is too naive for politicians of this level to think that one can get off purely with the economy. It doesn’t work out, even if you want to - politics will always fit into the economy and vice versa
  • ed65b
    ed65b 12 October 2013 10: 18 New
    -10
    Participation in the Eurasian Union is not the only opportunity for foreign policy orientation for Kazakhstan. The country's leadership does not rule out cooperation with Turkey, which would like to create its economic Turkic-speaking union, as well as with China, Russia's main competitor in the post-Soviet space within the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO). Astana, unlike Minsk, also maintains normal relations with Europe and the USA, noted Satpayev.

    Я всегда говорил казахов взашей гнать надо. Какие они союзники? Обычные "мусульмане" не отличающиеся от своих соседей по вере киргизов да таджиков. Все б себе выгадать, да побольше. Халявщики.
    1. Lindon
      Lindon 12 October 2013 10: 21 New
      +5
      That’s the provocateur. Greetings hi - ask for the euro, otherwise the dollar will fall.
      Muslims are urban - they turn out good Mujahideen - Uzbeks, for example, and nomadic - they are not very religious due to economic production - Kazakhs, for example.
      1. ed65b
        ed65b 12 October 2013 10: 51 New
        -2
        Quote: Lindon
        That’s the provocateur. Greetings hi - ask for the euro, otherwise the dollar will fall.
        Muslims are urban - they turn out good Mujahideen - Uzbeks, for example, and nomadic - they are not very religious due to economic production - Kazakhs, for example.

        Is Uzbek Mujahid? Rather, the ram will learn to speak Uzbek than the Uzbek will become a warrior. laughing
        1. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 12 October 2013 11: 08 New
          +4
          Uzbek soldiers - so-so. But this does not mean that they will not turn out suicide fanatics. Arabs are also worthless warriors, but this does not mean the absence of problems with religious extremists.
      2. Ram chandra
        Ram chandra 12 October 2013 14: 52 New
        +3
        Well, urban Kazakhs are becoming more and more atheists.
    2. Alibekulu
      Alibekulu 12 October 2013 10: 34 New
      +6
      Quote: ed65b
      Я всегда говорил казахов взашей гнать надо. Какие они союзники? Обычные "мусульмане" не отличающиеся от своих соседей по вере киргизов да таджиков. Все б себе выгадать, да побольше. Халявщики.
      Привет "сбитый лётчик".
      Yes, after your words - you are Esenger's best friend (Yesen, no offense ..) drinks
      He, like you against the TS and EurAsEC ...
      You have full agreement with him ..
      1. ed65b
        ed65b 12 October 2013 10: 54 New
        -1
        Hi, blame it. That's against it. I want to live alone in my country without different allies, especially from the former.
        1. Alibekulu
          Alibekulu 12 October 2013 11: 11 New
          +8
          Quote: ed65b
          I want to live alone in my country without different allies, especially from the former.
          Wow xnumx offers and without insults belay
          Getting old slowly ?!
          You can, when you want ..
          You can express your opinion without tantrums.
          1. ed65b
            ed65b 12 October 2013 12: 05 New
            -4
            истерят здесь "батыры" причем по любому поводу да и без повода то же.
      2. Essenger
        12 October 2013 10: 54 New
        +7
        Quote: Alibekulu
        Yes, after your words - you are Esenger's best friend (Yesen, no offense ..)

        Salem bauyrym, did not understand why I should be offended?)))
        1. Alibekulu
          Alibekulu 12 October 2013 11: 03 New
          +4
          Salem drinks I think it’s not very climate to be your friend ed65b (3) после всех его "высеров" в сторону казахов и Казахстана?!
          1. Essenger
            12 October 2013 11: 10 New
            +7
            only friend in quotes)))
            1. ed65b
              ed65b 12 October 2013 12: 03 New
              0
              I don’t stuff my friends and such friends and the museum.
              1. Lindon
                Lindon 12 October 2013 12: 07 New
                +3
                In the detox am
  • soldier's grandson
    soldier's grandson 12 October 2013 10: 32 New
    +2
    наша проблема в том что в правительстве сидят ворье "бизнесмены" которым нужно успеть за время своего присутствия у власти максимально выжать из недр нефти и газа и продать , когда тут думать о засеяных полях если можно перепродать западное гамно своему народу нажив на этом милиарды, Лукашенко правильно говорит про Калининградэто как замечание нашему великому Пу
  • ia-ai00
    ia-ai00 12 October 2013 11: 49 New
    -2
    Lindon KZ ↑
    How has Afghanistan been defeated? Here the United States also thinks so - they hanged Saddam, they killed Gaddafi - but to the point - they like Americans thereAk Russians in Afghanistan.
    But this is a moot point! Peaceful the population (if it can be there) is nostalgic for the Russian troops, in comparison with the Amer. Several times on TV I saw interviews from local.
    1. ed65b
      ed65b 12 October 2013 11: 59 New
      0
      Есть такое во всяком случае наши там передвигаются спокойно, без автоматов и спецназа на хамерах. и встречаются с бывшими противниками чай пьют плов едят. без претензий. А вот смогут ли американцы так "путешествовать" вопрос.
      1. Lindon
        Lindon 12 October 2013 12: 05 New
        0
        Compare the losses of 10 years of the USSR in Afghanistan and 10 years of the USA. You will be very surprised.
        1. EGORKA
          EGORKA 12 October 2013 13: 45 New
          +1
          What would be the loss of the Americans, if Russia, as the Americans, once in the Afghan war helped the majahids, and not the amers?
          1. Lindon
            Lindon 12 October 2013 13: 57 New
            +2
            Do you really believe that the Kremlin will go against the owners?
            The Chinese no no through Pakistan arms throw to the Taliban.
    2. Lindon
      Lindon 12 October 2013 12: 01 New
      0
      Civilians - in Afghanistan grows poppy during the day, and go to bed with Kalashnikov at night. Believe me, you would have lived like that in their place and considered yourself a normal peaceful dekhanin.
      They adore the Russians in Afghanistan - they are nostalgic - 100 dollars for an ordinary, 500 for a sergeant, 1000 for an officer! There is no happiness here without Russians.
      1. Zhenya
        Zhenya 12 October 2013 15: 40 New
        +2
        LindonReal losses of the USSR and the USA ?? Oh, my friend, the losses will pleasantly surprise you! 15 died for 10 years of the war in Afghanistan 1979-1989 and 53 wounded. Losses of NATO from 753-2001 (official statistics of losses take into account only military personnel - US citizens. However, citizens of other states who are interested in the opportunity to obtain the so-called green card - residence permit in the USA - after serving in the "hot spot" also serve in the US Army. In practice, the share of non-Americans in the total US army contingent reaches 2013%) Official losses of 2300 American soldiers, unofficial 4000 soldiers + 6 non-US citizens + organizations that support the safety of facilities, that is, 000 mercenaries + loss of NATO forces of about 8 people, the total number of wounded, excluding mercenaries and non-US citizens, is about 000, that is, the loss of NATO forces of about 19-000 and 20 wounded and IT Fights almost all of Europe and America.
        So, you blurted out again without thinking for the third time. I do not enter into discussion with you anymore, for I do not like idle talk.
        1. Lindon
          Lindon 12 October 2013 16: 15 New
          0
          You need to go to school and repeat what NATO is and what the USA is.
          We will believe your 4000 figures are unofficial against the 15 000 of the USSR (official).
          Read more about what NATO is doing in Afghanistan.
    3. romb
      romb 12 October 2013 19: 04 New
      +2
      The civilian population (if it can be there) is nostalgic for the Russian troops ....

      What are the Russian troops in Afghanistan? You probably wanted to say - Soviet troops? Comparing the modern Russian army with the SA is not just ridiculous, but frankly stupid.
      Насчет "ностальгии", афганские моджахеды довольно-таки "хорошо" ее показали во время Чеченской компании.
      1. Essenger
        12 October 2013 19: 20 New
        +5
        Quote: romb
        What are the Russian troops in Afghanistan? You probably wanted to say - Soviet troops?

        But why cling to words? You understand what he’s talking about.
        1. romb
          romb 12 October 2013 19: 32 New
          +2
          В том-то и дело, что тут идет постепенная подмена исторической правды. Да Вы и сами, наверное, уже заметили, с какой скоростью наши общие заслуги и успехи при СССР становятся сугубо Российской собственностью, а все случившиеся неудачи и поражения перекладываются на всяких "чурок" и "бандеровцев".
          1. alone
            alone 12 October 2013 22: 19 New
            +1
            Speak perfectly correctly. It is easiest to seek the extreme in all sins. That's what they do.
  • MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 12 October 2013 12: 11 New
    +2
    Грустно все эти статьи и комменты читать..имперцы оккупанты и т.д Россия никогда не стремилась к мировому господству или захвату чужих территорий..Мы просто защищаем свою территорию и не только свою.. (не любим мы когда на наших границах идет резня и кровавая бойня управляемая из любого конца света..Мы отпустили почти все "союзные " республики в свободное плавание и что ? Они по своей сути так и остались нашими (только президенты у них появились и все соответствующие атрибуты.)..Сейчас отбрыкиваются от нас ногами и руками мы типо "демократические и независимые..) А если заваруха начнется ? Опять Россия помоги..мы вас не загоняем в СССР поймите наконец ! Все эти претензии ваши шаблонные идут из недр спецслужб запада ближнего востока..Чечне Южная осетия и Сирия наконец..Мы не за свои имперские амбиции стояли там на смерть (а в Сирии мир стоял на гране ядерной катастрофы ) Уж извените сумбурно опять ..не люблю я писать много (не умею верней)..Хватит мужики долбать друг друга (политики пусть делят деруться.) А нам то что простым делить..Они ведь нас читаю !
    1. Essenger
      12 October 2013 12: 38 New
      +2
      Quote: MIKHAN
      Russia has never sought world domination or the seizure of foreign territories ..

      laughing
      1. alone
        alone 12 October 2013 17: 55 New
        +1
        Quote: Essenger
        Russia has never aspired to world domination or the seizure of foreign territories .. We simply protect our territory and not only ours ..


        Vitaly, you should at least read the testament of Peter the Great, or Stalin's theses about the victory of the world revolution. Of course, I respect all the comments, as people write what they think, but honestly speaking, reading this makes me think.
        Russia and the USSR were empires. Name one empire that did not want world domination.
  • Zymran
    Zymran 12 October 2013 12: 44 New
    0
    Well, as can be seen from the comments, no arguments were found for the benefits of integration for Kazakhstan. Only horror stories about China and the Anglo-Saxons.

    By the way, we are very fond of nodding to Belarus, as an example of obtaining benefits from the CU, but as it turns out to Belarusians, this union is across the throat. And not only But father, the townsfolk on Belarusian sites are just as dissatisfied.

    In short, judging by everything, the CES, the CES and the other projects of the great integrator will live exactly as long as the ruling regimes of the Republic of Kazakhstan and the Republic of Belarus.
    1. volkodav
      volkodav 12 October 2013 13: 54 New
      0
      Well, yes, Russia’s direct benefit is great !!! Russian trucker suffers from Kazakh and Belarusian long-range battles, different tax conditions, so they bring down the price tag, you must first make the same laws and then create alliances and let them into your market
      1. Lindon
        Lindon 12 October 2013 14: 01 New
        +1
        What is the benefit of Russia? - all questions to the Kremlin.
        There Putin - he’ll explain on the fingers, affordable.
    2. Semurg
      Semurg 12 October 2013 15: 07 New
      +3
      that Belarusians are not visible in the subject, all Kazakhs and Russians are butting, they probably know something that we don’t know, and therefore are so calm, with a mustache?
  • Essenger
    12 October 2013 13: 20 New
    +3
    Quote: DC 3
    As soon as the TS appeared in Almaty, there were a lot of Belarusian goods and products and they are in great demand, then Belarus has entered a new market, so the capacities are growing.

    Yesterday, President Nazarbayev spoke about goods from Belarus
    http://news.nur.kz/285793.html

    Recently, I like him, he only has two real punctures: TS and Zhanaozen.
    1. Zymran
      Zymran 12 October 2013 13: 26 New
      +4
      Corruption and failure to build a rule of law, its main disadvantages. And recently, he really seems to wake up. Maybe they turned off Khabar or learned to use the Internet?
      1. Essenger
        12 October 2013 14: 18 New
        +6
        Salem Zymran

        Quote: Zymran
        Corruption and the failure of the rule of law

        This is not only his fault, people themselves are ready to poke money only if they wouldn’t stand in lines, etc. In general, the society is passive and casakardas are paid with billing, shaymen nan bar, shukirshilik, etc.))) Cossack wasp’s incidents.

        Quote: Zymran
        Maybe they turned off Khabar or learned to use the Internet?

        I don’t know, they say that this is due to the activity on Facebook
        1. Semurg
          Semurg 12 October 2013 15: 12 New
          +6
          [quote = Essenger] Salem Zymran

          [quote = Zymran] Corruption and the failure of the rule of law [/ quote]
          This is not only his fault, people themselves are ready to poke money only if they wouldn’t stand in lines, etc. In general, the society is passive and casakardas are paid with billing, shaymen nan bar, shukirshilik, etc.))) Cossack wasp’s incidents.

          philosophical outlook on life? maybe eastern mentality? really can explode on a trifle?
  • MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 12 October 2013 13: 36 New
    0
    Quote: Essenger
    Quote: MIKHAN
    Russia has never sought world domination or the seizure of foreign territories ..

    laughing

    Your laughter is not appropriate dear .. I’ll write a little offensive now, please bear with me!
    The state of Kazakhstan did not exist before the USSR .. (we cut a huge territory for you) and we mastered it not with soldiers and tanks but with tractors with building materials state farm villages built from all over the union people were coming to you (not for money) ..) Now the wild steppe is so dead pastoralists sheep and horses graze .. And the most important infection is a terrible locust from you, the lizards of the dry wind bring all kinds of crap to us and there’s no one to present empty territory to the shepherds, the whole population around you is eating large oil-bearing cities .. (I didn’t read it in Google I see all this what happened and what is ..) And I’m sure if the gang from the Middle East goes then it will pass your territory like a knife through the oil .. And before Dear Basmachi clans, you had no power and relative order .. And factories and factories you already haven’t had everything collapsed and sold .. The Chinese and the Anglo-Saxons have been driving you there for a long time .. And if Nazarbayev leaves the house you will start not frail .. And you yourself can’t fight .. (no offense, really. .) Not n hell blame us ..
    1. Lindon
      Lindon 12 October 2013 13: 49 New
      +2
      The Kremlin will send you the first to fight for Kazakhstan and they won’t ask if you understand why this is necessary or not.
    2. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 12 October 2013 17: 27 New
      +2
      [quote = MIKHAN] There was no state of Kazakhstan before the USSR .. (you cut a huge territory)

      Well, if you don’t know the history of a neighboring country, then what should be clever? The Kazakh Khanate was formed in the middle of the 15th century as a result of separation from the state of Abulkhayir. The first ruler was Kerei Khan. Diplomatic relations between the Kazakh Khanate and the Moscow Principality began under Ivan the Terrible and Khan Haknazar (when close communication was before), which created a military bloc against the Crimeans, Nogais and Siberians. In the 18th century, the Kazakh Khanate voluntarily became part of the growing Russian Empire with the preservation of the khanate within the khanate (by the way, the territory of the then Kazakh lands was not only in the territory of modern Kazakhstan, but also included a number of lands that are now part of the Russian Federation). In the 19th century, the khan’s power was abolished, and the territory of Kazakhstan was torn into governor-generals. In fact, Kazakhstan ceased to exist as an admin unit. But soon the Kazakhs began to demand restoration of autonomy. The tsarist government did not go for it, but then the revolution and the Russian civil war broke out. The Bolsheviks promised to restore Kazakh autonomy in exchange for loyalty. As a result, almost immediately after the revolution, the largest Turkic nation in the Russian Empire again received its state in the form of a republic within the RSFSR, and soon Kazakhstan received the status of a union republic. Without statehood, the Kazakhs were a short period of time from the second half of the 19th century to the 20s of the 20th century.
      [quote=МИХАН]осваивали мы ее не солдатами и танками а[/quote] При царе осваивали исключительно солдатами и казаками. Ну, а в советское время Казахстан вообще превратился в "полигонницу" - на территории республики к 1991 году располагалось 300 тысяч солдат и офицеров МО СССР (плюс другие силовые органы), 12% территории было занято под чисто военные полигоны (это больше чем размеры многих европейских государств).
      [quote = MIKHAN] and tractors with building materials built state farms from all over the union [/ quote]
      ...для нужд "всего союза", а не на благо только казахов. Пардон, но столько хлеба казахам не нужно было. основная часть пшеницы уходила в Россию.

      [quote=МИХАН]народ ехал к вам (не за деньги)..) [/quote] Да ну нафиг? Кто-то работал в СССР бесплатно (кроме лагерных зеков)? Д.ураков не было даже при социализме. Да, была идеологическая составляющая, но люди ехали на всесоюзные стройки в добровольно-принудительном порядке ("по распределению"), и получали за это деньги. А когда надо - то и добавки ("длинный рубль")

      [quote=МИХАН]Сейчас опять степь дикая так скотоводы дохлых овец и лошадей пасут [/quote] [quote=МИХАН]И фабрик и заводов фактически у вас уже давно нет все развалили и продали..[/quote]Проснись и пой. Казахстан раньше России достиг уровня производства советского периода. Более того, в Казахстане полным ходом идет "новая индустриализация". Перечень выпускаемой продукции шире, чем в советское время - от майонеза до автомобилей и локомотивов. Кстати, поздравляю, в этом году Казахстан отправил в Россию первую партию автомашин на экспорт.
      1. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny 12 October 2013 17: 36 New
        +4
        Quote: MIKHAN
        And most importantly, a terrible locust is coming from you. Locust lizards bring all kinds of crap to us.
        The whole steppe - that Kazakhstan, that Russian is full of NATURAL foci of infection. Now we have in the steppe an outbreak of foot and mouth disease, then you. Then we have a fire that is going in your direction, then you have a fire that is rushing into the short circuit. If you think that the Orenburg steppe is somewhat different from the Aktobe steppe, then you are very mistaken.

        Quote: MIKHAN
        if a gang from the Middle East goes then it will pass your territory like a knife through butter.

        Do you even know that in the Kazakh steppe the Persian armies, both Chinese and Dzungarian found their end. Both the Arabs and Macedon came up against the wall. How do you imagine the 21st century Arab invasion of Kazakhstan? Though describe, that I neighing.

        Quote: MIKHAN
        And before, Dear Basmachi clans, you had no power and relative order ..
        Ты хотя бы одну тоненькую книжку прочитал про историю Казахстана?))) Или тебе хватает застольных разговоров с соседом Ваней, таким же "тюркологом" как и ты?)))

        Quote: MIKHAN
        The Chinese and Anglo-Saxons have been there for a long time.
        Yes, they rule less than in Russia))) It is your Far East that has become oversized, and it is your Anglo-Saxons who rule the real politics and economy. In our country, they have a share in the oil and gas sector, just like other investors who invest in this hyper-cost sector. This they have to invest billions of dollars in the Kazakh economy in the hope of future profits. And let them invest. Kashagan project is the most expensive investment project in the world, if you did not know.
        1. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 12 October 2013 17: 37 New
          +5
          Quote: MIKHAN
          And if Nazarbayev leaves the house you will begin not frail
          Доктор Хаус начнется или хаос?))) Некоторые соседи из севера прям достали своими прогнозами, когда наступит смерть Казахстану. Уже 20 с лишним лет слышу - "Вот уеду из Казахстана и жо.па вам наступит", "Да вы же ничего не умеете, ваша независимость протянется от силы года два, потом сами на коленях приползете", "Продали месторождение Шеврону? Все. Теперь вы точно превратитесь в оборванцев, которым ничего в стране не принадлежит", "Вот наступит 2000 год и у вас тоже своя Чечня появится", "Америка вошла в Афганистан, следующие - вы!", "Мировой кризис вас точно убьет", "Акаева сегодня свергли, и Назарбаева скоро свергнут", "Нефть упала в цене - вам кирдык!", "В Жанаозене беспорядки - скоро у вас будет революция"... Вам не надоело? Назарбаев не единственный умный стратег, дипломат или хозяйственник среди казахов. Умрет он, будет другой "Назарбаев". До этого был Кунаев - тоже отличный руководитель. И до этого казахи, управлявшие Казахстаном были отличными управленцами, которым казахи до сих пор благодарны. Вот почему-то в России не везет с правителями, а у нас нет таких правителей в истории, которых мы бы тухлыми яйцами закидывали ни тогда, ни сегодня. Так почему я должен ожидать, что казахи выберут следующего президента из числа иди.отов или неадекватов? Это наша страна и мы наобум никогда ханов не избирали. И тиранов у нас в истории не было. Даже Чингисхана мы по своей воде ИЗБРАЛИ ханом, подняв его на белой кошме, когда он еще был простым степным удальцом. Узурпаторов у нас не было. Кто лучший - тот и становился ханом. Назарбаев отлично справляется с работой - пусть работает пока есть силы. "Закончится" Назарбаев, найдем замену без проблем. Так что успокойся. Казахстан - не Украина, и не Россия. Если будет плохой президент - то выгоним пинками из страны к вам в Россию, пусть лекции читает в МГУ.
          1. Essenger
            12 October 2013 17: 59 New
            +4
            Quote: Marek Rozny
            Dr. House will begin or chaos?)))

            ahahahah) laughing I haven’t laughed for a long time)))))))
  • MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 12 October 2013 14: 07 New
    -4
    Quote: Lindon
    The Kremlin will send you the first to fight for Kazakhstan and they won’t ask if you understand why this is necessary or not.

    And I will go and send my sons! Because I’ll fight for Russia (in the current situation ..) I don’t want gangs of cutthroats to chastal on the border of my country .. disobeying anyone (Chechnya, etc.) as an example to you .. It will probably happen in Kazakhstan soon too .. (it’s not in vain that the military unit will be redeployed to the border) although there is no border there as such .. (1ment per 200 km but harmful and greedy ..))
  • Ram chandra
    Ram chandra 12 October 2013 14: 50 New
    +6
    Everything is simple. We are afraid that we will find ourselves as small countries in the EU - do not decide anything for our children, lose production and so on. Who wants an increasingly wealthy neighbor to decide for him?
  • MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 12 October 2013 15: 06 New
    +4
    I read a lot of comments like we have oil, gas, we will all live in Dubai .. It will never happen !! .. Oil in the world is a drug and the basis of the entire financial system of a certain (very small) circle of people and all this is controlled by them .. Russia and without the sale of oil, it was strong and will be .. The image of the dollar oil was created artificially .. and the whole world got hooked on it .. Oil has long been not the only source of energy .. Just oil is the control lever .. And no matter how much oil is extracted, people will not live better .so the phone will buy a little newer and will be happy ...
    1. Alibekulu
      Alibekulu 13 October 2013 19: 21 New
      +1
      This Russian constantly say that without them all kirdyk.
  • Migari
    Migari 12 October 2013 15: 12 New
    +4
    Quote: T80UM1
    What is the relationship and the union. The strength of the union is proportional to the desire and attitude of people in the union.

    Do not break the building, it is always more difficult and longer, you need to negotiate and compromise, but before each side really decide on their desires, and if you are already an ally, then be to the end.
  • lexe
    lexe 12 October 2013 15: 22 New
    +3
    Our epic heroic daddy gave another ...
    Речь вовсе идет не о "Кемска волость" а о недоверии партнеров состоянием дел в России.Партнеры просто намекнули что недовольны.
    Tell me, why do Kazakhs need an explosion on a national basis (in Russia) because of the excessive migration policies of our authorities? And they stopped seeing only their selfish interest? And realized that the deep interests of the Russian people meet their own?
    If the dispute was about this, then this is encouraging. Well, and if about the next penny-rubles ..
    Well, the Old Man joke can be answered in the same vein:
    Yes, take it! laughing И прихвати всю нашу "ИЛИТУ"
    Give each New Kaliningrad family a new employee for the New Year.
    We can also unnecessary gastarbb (language break laughing ) to pour a few million, we have this good in bulk. They will all plow you there, sweep. And then you let them go on all 4 sides. (Fortunately, the parties lead to the EU laughing )
    We are democrats, and there they will have rights and freedoms to the maximum.
    But keenly Belarusian PR managers are smart ... But you need to know the measure.
    Region with Russian population ...
    And so you’ll check out the Kuril Islands, and then the Kremlin will ask you to sell
    Where did you get that much money from? Did the Fed throw something? laughingAre Bunnies the New Hard Currency of the World? laughing
  • gyl
    gyl 12 October 2013 15: 41 New
    +1
    Quote: Orik
    А как вы представляете "равноправность" ядерной державы со 142 млн. населением, ВВП 2,5 триллиона долларов и Беларусь соответственно 10 млн. и 60 млд.; Казахстан 17 и 200. Эта разница в разы! Надо же быть хоть чуточку адекватными. Вот пытаются торговать как братья, а жить как чужие, глупость, эгоизм и недальновидность.

    In the EU, decisions are made only by consensus - Luxembourg will say (and say), not permission! , and no Germany with France will not force.
    1. avt
      avt 12 October 2013 17: 03 New
      0
      Quote: gyl
      In the EU, decisions are made only by consensus - Luxembourg will say (and say), not permission! , and no Germany with France will not force.

      And why are we here? This is a disease tell the Greeks. Well, before the pile, I advise you to advise how Ukraine will receive, if that's the way the decisions of 28 states are agreed, a coveted loan for Euro-integration. laughing There will not be Putin so that under his decision they give a loan.
  • Ram chandra
    Ram chandra 12 October 2013 16: 08 New
    +4
    Quote: Marrying
    DC 3 Second, the number of Kazakh soldiers killed in World War II is equal to 125.500 or for example Azerbaijanis 58.400. Do you know how many Russians, no? 5.756.000.

    Well, you compare with the population of Russia and Kazakhstan. In percentage terms - ours died more than yours. That is - I explain to stupid again - Kazakhs now - 9-10 times less than Russian. Rough. Previously - after the population of Kazakhstan decreased by 43% from hunger and persecution - this difference was even higher.

    Okay - so be it - I’ll give you the exact numbers. The population of Kazakhstan in 1939 is 6 151 102 people. Russia 108 377 000. The difference is 17,62!
    Losses 575600/125500 = Altogether, died 4,6 times less (And it takes 17.62 to be equal)! And do not say at all that the Kazakhs (and other nationalities from Kazakhstan) almost did not fight. Simple - shut your rotten mouths.

    And in 1939 the number of Kazakhs in Kazakhstan was less than the number of Russians right there! 2 327 625 against 2 458 687 Russians. And so it was until the second half of the 80s. That is, the country was practically not ours. Plus, representatives of other nationalities.
    No wonder where the language problems come from, etc.

    Moreover, it was not the mass of people that was important - the Russians had more than enough of it (it was strange - why so many Kazakhs were called up then) - but goods, metals, coal, products, etc. from Kazakhstan. Every third bullet was fired in Balkhash. Tungsten was mined only in Kazakhstan. Without it, strong armor for tanks was not possible. Clothing, meat - everything was delivered to the front. We had a terrible hunger. Only women worked in the villages. Men were taken away!
    I can tell my children with an open heart - it is unlikely that the Russians would have won without the Kazakhs. Dot.
    1. EGORKA
      EGORKA 12 October 2013 17: 12 New
      +2
      Before the war, 6,2 million people lived in Kazakhstan. During the war years, 1,2 million Kazakhstanis went from here to arms to the front. In addition, using the experience of the tsarist government of 1916, the Stalinist regime, along with the army, created special construction battalions. The latter were formed from representatives of the indigenous nationalities of Central Asia, Kazakhstan and repressed peoples resettled in our region. 700 thousand people were sent to labor armies from Kazakhstan through military commissariats.
      Today, there are different opinions about the losses of the Kazakhs in the war. According to the assumptions of demographers, 350 thousand Kazakhs did not return from the front of World War II.
      ================================================== ====
      It is such a moment that Kazakh divisions consisted not only of Kazakhs, but also of Ukrainians, Russians, Jews, etc.
    2. EGORKA
      EGORKA 12 October 2013 17: 14 New
      +4
      Soviet won, Soviet)
    3. EGORKA
      EGORKA 12 October 2013 17: 19 New
      0
      and here is not the Kazakh version of the losses of 125000 just:
      http://www.ethnoinfo.ru/narody-sssr-v-vojne/314-statistika
    4. EGORKA
      EGORKA 12 October 2013 17: 27 New
      0
      Quote: Ram Chandra

      I can tell my children with an open heart - it is unlikely that the Russians would have won without the Kazakhs. Dot.

      And do not think that you fought exclusively for the Russians) if you think about it, then you fought for yourself, because you got the 91st Kazakhstan, which you are now trying to raise higher, even though your grandfathers could not think of such a thing. and we and you were not considered to be people, and in the event of a defeat for us, or rather our grandfathers, a sad present without a future awaited everyone.
    5. avt
      avt 12 October 2013 18: 43 New
      0
      Quote: Ram Chandra
      Well, you compare with the population of Russia and Kazakhstan. In percentage terms - ours died more than yours.

      It’s just that you don’t need to dance on the bones and shit at the soldier’s graves with shtetl nationalism with your nationalism. SOVIET people for the USSR perished in the Patriotic War and not Kazakhs for Russians and vice versa. There was a common Country and Idea, and no matter how someone wanted it, they went to death for it. Without Baku oil, one tank would go horseradish, and without Ural tanks the Germans would pump Baku oil.
      1. EGORKA
        EGORKA 12 October 2013 19: 12 New
        +3
        Then everything was Soviet and people and oil ... whether it was Baku or Ryazan, then all this was conditionally unnecessarily everything belonged to the Soviet center, a parade of sovereignty came about half a century later.
  • soldier's grandson
    soldier's grandson 12 October 2013 19: 35 New
    +4
    что тут спорит кто героистее русские или казахи, в ВОВ об этом даже не думали , я знаю много казахов которые прошли чеченскую они почти все ВДВешники и награды есть как и у русских пацанов, если бы споры про казахов и русских могли услышать наши деды которые погибли то они бы нас просто не поняли и спросили:"кто вам так мозги за-рал?"
    1. alone
      alone 12 October 2013 22: 35 New
      +3
      Quote: Soldier's grandson
      что тут спорит кто героистее русские или казахи, в ВОВ об этом даже не думали , я знаю много казахов которые прошли чеченскую они почти все ВДВешники и награды есть как и у русских пацанов, если бы споры про казахов и русских могли услышать наши деды которые погибли то они бы нас просто не поняли и спросили:"кто вам так мозги за-рал?"


      My grandfather died in the 43rd when Smolensk was liberated. Surely here among the members of the forum there are those whose grandfathers also died there. In fact, it’s hard to find a person from the former USSR who didn’t die in the war. These people are in the next world they curse all those who appropriate a common victory. am
  • scientist
    scientist 12 October 2013 22: 43 New
    -2
    The Bialowieza Agreement was signed by Russia. The initiator of the creation of the CU and the Eurasian Union was Kazakhstan. Belarus and Russia generally signed the Union Treaty long ago. It is a fact.
    It is a fact that, with the introduction of the CU, financial flows related to duties and taxes were redistributed. Consequently, there are influential politicians and businessmen who previously controlled these financial flows. And the signing of agreements with even greater political and economic integration implies an increase in the number of dissatisfied, who are moved from billions of feeders.
    It is also a fact that the standard of living of people and their income in the CU countries are approximately the same, therefore for ordinary hard workers in the CU nothing has changed.
    From this we can conclude that the 3rd force (we all know it is $) now uses the factor of redistribution of financial flows to put pressure on the leaders of Kazakhstan and Belarus. Obviously, we should expect an increase in these contradictions if in the near future there will be no serious mutual investments in the economy. AT
    However, now Kazakhstan, free funds, seek to invest in Georgia earning points from the West. Belarus, for obvious reasons, is not investing anywhere, therefore Lukashenko is so untied and behaving, does not risk anything and he has nothing to lose except for relatively small contracts in heavy engineering. Russia is also very cautious in investing in Kazakhstan and Belarus since it is almost a one-way process.
    I think when the leaders of the CU countries sort this mess out, then many of the contradictions will disappear.
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 12 October 2013 23: 10 New
      0
      Quote: scientist
      3rd force (we all know it is $) now uses the factor of redistribution of financial flows to put pressure on the leadership of Kazakhstan and Belarus.

      Nazarbayev and Lukashenko do not need money. Nazarbayev has everything. His family controls a sickly piece of Kazakhstan's economy. So it is useless to lure him with dollars. Lukashenko will not buy grandmothers either.

      Quote: scientist
      However, now Kazakhstan, free funds, seek to invest in Georgia earning points from the West.

      a) Kazakhstan has long not considered Georgia as a country for large investments. Although there was a period of 6-7 years ago. Read newspapers in 2013, not 2006-2007.
      b) Kazakhstan then bought objects for the tourism business, planning to make money by intercepting income from tourists coming to the Black Sea. How much money do Kazakhstan people spend on holidays in Turkey per year? Dofiga. So ours also wanted to snatch part of this tour stream. The notorious West has nothing to do with it. This business has not yet been successful, because the 2008 war confused all the cards.
      But the terminals and gas pipeline infrastructure are a real interest for Kazakhstan. Kazmunaigas works there. But the West has nothing to do with it either.

      Quote: scientist
      Russia is also very cautious in investing in Kazakhstan and Belarus since it is almost a one-way process.
      Размер казахстанских инвестиций в разы больше размера российских инвестиций в Казахстан. Так что не надо ля-ля про "односторонний процесс" России.

      Ты "ученый" в какой области наук? Что преподаешь?
      1. scientist
        scientist 13 October 2013 00: 05 New
        -1
        I like to operate more with figures and facts. Therefore, I advise you to see the information on the website http://www.odnako.org/blogs/show_26875/
        If you studied economics and finance at the police, then you’ll figure it out. Investment chaos and excesses are very strong and this is bad.
        The fact that Nazarbayev and Lukashenko are not poor is understandable. But do not forget that selfish motivation is peculiar only to criminals. Normal people are guided by moral and ethical standards in their lives. And I am inclined to classify these two Presidents as normal, unlike most of their environment, over which they periodically lose control. Listen to what Nazarbayev says at the last government meeting - stop grabbing politely and openly. Of course, this is mainly public, which would take responsibility away from you, but still ... there is a fact that they are grabbing, i.e. are engaged in raiding and he is in the know.
  • ekzorsist
    ekzorsist 12 October 2013 22: 47 New
    -5
    Well, with the Kazakh, then everything is quite simple
    При развале СССР казахам в "наследство" досталось очень и очень много из общесоюзного и более того общенародного имущества - это и Байконур , и сотни предприятий и более того даже запас оружейного плутония под Алма-атой ... и как этим распорядились ?
    Almost EVERYTHING was stolen, stolen, or simply destroyed ...
    Да и сейчас посмотрите на все так называемые "пробивные" или "прорывные" проекты ... это сплошное разворовывание государственных средств ....
    So, Kazakhstan is a commonwealth ... but what about stealing money?
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 12 October 2013 23: 17 New
      +1
      You would not write about topics in which you do not rush nichrome.

      Кстати, посмотрел твои комменты - ощущение, что ты проспал свой поезд "Петропавловск-Омск" 15 лет назад.
      Z.Y. It doesn’t fit in my head how can you smear Kazakhs and live in Kazakhstan? Who is holding you? Drive home. Do not bang your brains neither yourself, nor Kazakhs, nor normal Russian Kazakhstanis.
      1. scientist
        scientist 13 October 2013 00: 12 New
        0
        If you don’t have enough brains to discuss normally, you don’t have to climb onto the forum. No one needs your advice.
        1. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 13 October 2013 08: 10 New
          -1
          ученый, официальное предупреждение от 18-го департамента по борьбе с особо опасными диссидентами: Мы следим. И примем меры, если кто-то хотя бы окурок бросит в неположенном месте. Сотрудник нашего департамента всегда рядом. Он может оказаться "продавцом", который продает фрукты, или "случайным" попутчиком в лифте.
          Как говорил зам.директора нашего департамента В.Цой: "Следи за собой, будь осторожен". Любое нарушение законодательства любой страны может привести к печальным последствиям.
    2. Alibekulu
      Alibekulu 13 October 2013 19: 34 New
      0
      Others got no less, and that only the Kazakhs ripped everything up. Russia no better disposed of the legacy of the USSR.
    3. Lindon
      Lindon 14 October 2013 21: 43 New
      +1
      Well, Nazarbayev is far from ROSPIL. With the money that Serdyukov arranged for the purchase of Mistral and other foreign equipment, Nazarbayev would build a second Astana.
      The fall of the Protons, the flooding of Kursk, the accident at the Sayano-Shushenskaya hydroelectric power station, the default of the 1998 of the year, the case of Serdyukov - these are just a few of the main achievements of Russia. Where Kazakhstan is - the scale is not the same.
  • MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 13 October 2013 11: 51 New
    0
    Quote: ekzorsist
    Well, with the Kazakh, then everything is quite simple
    При развале СССР казахам в "наследство" досталось очень и очень много из общесоюзного и более того общенародного имущества - это и Байконур , и сотни предприятий и более того даже запас оружейного плутония под Алма-атой ... и как этим распорядились ?
    Almost EVERYTHING was stolen, stolen, or simply destroyed ...
    Да и сейчас посмотрите на все так называемые "пробивные" или "прорывные" проекты ... это сплошное разворовывание государственных средств ....
    So, Kazakhstan is a commonwealth ... but what about stealing money?

    Согласен сам видел...И сужу это по тому что производства с ярлыком "Сделано в Казахстане" ни разу не видел ! Китайский товар там очень дешев.. и все! Может меня казахстанские товарищи просветят что производит Казахстан! Вот помнится тысячные стада крупного рогатого скота и овец паслись на бескрайних просторах ,пшеница (твердых сортов высшего класса) колосилась ..где все ??
    1. Zymran
      Zymran 13 October 2013 18: 19 New
      +6
      Wheat is still earning. A significant part of the grain we export. There are big problems with cattle breeding, thanks to the policy of our dear and beloved.

      A few links about production. In general, of course, miserable, in relation to light and textile industry.

      http://www.centralasia-biz.com/cabiz/kazahstan/industry/abt_industry_kz.htm

      http://victorprofessor.livejournal.com/175706.html#cutid1
      http://victorprofessor.livejournal.com/179670.html#cutid1
      http://russos.livejournal.com/781056.html#cutid1
    2. Alibekulu
      Alibekulu 13 October 2013 19: 46 New
      -1
      Buy points and come to Kazakhstan, but what does Russia produce besides military goods? And then the Soviet development, its purely Russian except Ladatazikov.
      1. Zhenya
        Zhenya 13 October 2013 19: 50 New
        0
        Alibekulu In the head of your sawdust yes yes yes wink Avatar is comparable to thoughts smile
        p.s.Зачем человеку ехать из страны 21 века, в страну "каменного" века со степями(съязвил)
        1. Andrey KZ
          Andrey KZ 13 October 2013 19: 56 New
          +4
          Quote: Marrying
          Why should a person go from the country of the 21 century to the country of the Stone Age with the steppes

          Oh Zhenya, you have not been to Kazakhstan for a long time. drinks
          1. Zhenya
            Zhenya 13 October 2013 20: 01 New
            +1
            Andrey KZ I forgot to put quotation marks, I sore, but I'm serious about the steppes wink
            1. Andrey KZ
              Andrey KZ 13 October 2013 20: 15 New
              +2
              In the spring, our steppe is incomparable, larks, mushrooms, poppies, tulips .... you can list indefinitely.
              1. Zhenya
                Zhenya 13 October 2013 20: 41 New
                +2
                Andrey KZ Oh, I would take a camera and for a couple of days 100 frames wink But the chamomile field is also beautiful, Christmas trees .... eh .... I believe that you have beautiful, but we also have many beautiful places wink
        2. Essenger
          13 October 2013 19: 57 New
          -3
          Quote: Marrying
          Why would a person go from a country of the 21st century,

          Is Russia a country of the 21st century? lol I would use the term country of the 3rd world, white Nigeria)))
          1. Zhenya
            Zhenya 13 October 2013 20: 09 New
            +1
            Essenger And Kazakhstan, the country of the 2nd world or 1st? belay Oh I didn’t know, sorry .... laughing
            1. Essenger
              13 October 2013 20: 12 New
              +1
              Quote: Marrying
              And Kazakhstan, the country of the 2nd world or 1st?

              In any case, higher than Russia)) This is definitely)))

              Quote: Marrying
              Oh I didn’t know, sorry ...

              You can contact with me any time
              1. Zhenya
                Zhenya 13 October 2013 20: 38 New
                0
                Essenger To whom to contact you? Writing an alternative story is just right for you. smile Of course, Kazakhstan is taller than Russia, you speak Russian, buy weapons from Russians, use Russian equipment, cities built by Russians, and studies until 2014 sent military to Russia and so on and so on and so forth ..... You when that write at least sometime turn on the gray matter .... although you probably live at Baikonur, I understand .... the chemicals affected you, I'm sorry crying
                1. Essenger
                  13 October 2013 22: 51 New
                  -1
                  Quote: Marrying
                  speak Russian

                  I am writing here, and I basically speak Kazakh and even Russian if they don’t understand their problems)))

                  Quote: Marrying
                  buy weapons from Russians, and studies until 2014 sent the military to Russia

                  What does the country's socio-economic status have? Not that you think that Luxembourg lives worse than the United States because they are members of NATO and buy American weapons?)))

                  Quote: Marrying
                  When you write something at least sometime turn on the gray matter.

                  Have a snack or something))))

                  Quote: Marrying
                  although you probably live at Baikonur, I understand .... chemicals have affected you, I'm sorry

                  I do not live in Baikonur, this comment shows what kind of person you are. Laugh at the health of the people who live there ...
        3. Alibekulu
          Alibekulu 13 October 2013 20: 03 New
          0
          Quote: Marrying
          In the head of your sawdust yes yes yes
          Do you want to insult me ​​?! laughing Now I’m offended and cry .. bully
          The country of the 21st century ?! belay Zhenya are you so serious ?! wink
          "Верхняя вольта с ракетами" точнее будет, ну или "родина слонов"..
          1. Zhenya
            Zhenya 13 October 2013 20: 06 New
            0
            Alibekulu Offend ?! Not some images, you just wrote nonsense about production. drinks
          2. andrei332809
            andrei332809 13 October 2013 22: 59 New
            +2
            Quote: Alibekulu
            Верхняя вольта с ракетами" точнее будет, ну или "родина слонов".

            а можно не оскорблять мою Родину?кто Вам "на мозоль"то наступил,что Вы всех нас хотите окунуть в выгребную?
            py.sy. start a little annoying Internet warriors who are confident in their impunity
            1. Alibekulu
              Alibekulu 14 October 2013 11: 06 New
              +2
              Quote: andrei332809
              а можно не оскорблять мою Родину?кто Вам "на мозоль"то наступил,что Вы всех нас хотите окунуть в выгребную?
              Not possible, but not necessary.
              I understand Zhenechka can be about my homeland:
              в страну "каменного" века со степями
              And how to understand:
              RUSS: Kazakhstan is standing at the knee-elbow, and it is waiting who will pay the most so that they will blow it!

              Misantrop: From this and the conversation.
              разговор пошёл с "страны каменного века". Каков привет, таков и ответ. Или обзываться привилегия "белого господина"?! what
          3. Misantrop
            Misantrop 13 October 2013 23: 08 New
            +2
            Quote: Alibekulu
            "Верхняя вольта с ракетами" точнее будет

            And rockets its development and manufacturing, или "белый сахиб подарил"? От этого и разговор. Предъяви что-либо хотя бы сравнимой сложности и технологичности изготовления, и можешь идти гордиться (или вешаться, без разницы). И не надо про великих предков, далеко не всякий потомок способен встать с ними наравне request
            1. andrei332809
              andrei332809 13 October 2013 23: 23 New
              +2
              Quote: Misantrop
              comparable complexity and manufacturability,

              so there is always ONE answer to this question -Baikonur.And that Russian specialists provide his life, TABU should talk about it. Now it’s a plus for our specialists that Kazakhstan is considered abroad, and, accordingly, business travelers receive at the exchange rate
          4. hrych
            hrych 13 October 2013 23: 49 New
            +1
            На счет "родины слонов", опять верно. Самый древний мамонт найден в Сибири на реке Хром, кстати мальчик, а слоны прямые потомки мамонтов, так, что все верно Россия - Родина слонов.
            1. Alibekulu
              Alibekulu 14 October 2013 08: 59 New
              +1
              Quote: hrych
              by the way boy
              Нда, теперь я понимаю откуда появилось выражение "старый хрыч" laughing
              Quote: hrych
              all right Russia is the homeland of elephants.
              Yeah, it’s of course, well lol
              At that pace, you'll be back there soon ..
              Go on grandfather, you have very good results.
    3. Lindon
      Lindon 14 October 2013 10: 43 New
      +2
      Russia population 42 million - grain yield 95 million tons
      Kazakhstan population 17 million - grain yield 20 million tons
      Kazakhstan, unlike Russia, even eats its own bread even in the most lean years.
  • Ckyf
    Ckyf 13 October 2013 15: 50 New
    +1
    Да, как плюшки делить, так Астана с Минском "Всегда готовы!", а как плюхи - так "мы только за экономический союз"...
    So you have to ask: guys, who do you want to be - allies or freebies of Russia in this alliance?
    1. andrei332809
      andrei332809 13 October 2013 15: 59 New
      +1
      Quote: Ckyf
      guys, who do you want to be - allies or freebies of Russia in this alliance?

      ah well done !!!
    2. Zymran
      Zymran 13 October 2013 17: 01 New
      +5
      Guys, what kind of buns does Kazakhstan get? Clear and to the point. What is the expression of parasitism? Clear and to the point.
      Is it for nothing that we sell you gas from Karachaganak and buy your basins? The fact that they abandoned the promising Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan in favor of the CPC?
      1. Misantrop
        Misantrop 13 October 2013 23: 14 New
        0
        Quote: Zymran
        The fact that they abandoned the promising Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan in favor of the CPC?

        And what is the prospect? In that pipe, is a co-author assigned? Or is it a raw materials appendage valuable as long as the raw materials are available? Yes, sheikhs bathe in gold. And the people, how many among them are at least middle-class engineers? Or some parasites sitting on a needle worse than a heroin drug addict? Drop tomorrow demand for raw materials, how many will fit at least the role of drover of camel caravans?
    3. Beck
      Beck 13 October 2013 17: 59 New
      +3
      Quote: Ckyf
      Да, как плюшки делить, так Астана с Минском "Всегда готовы!", а как плюхи - так "мы только за экономический союз"...
      So you have to ask: guys, who do you want to be - allies or freebies of Russia in this alliance?


      Вообще, кто в последнее время самый ярый сторонник объединения - Россия. Не хотите "нахлебников", так и разорвите ТС соглашения и другие интеграционные процессы. Делов, то на копейку. Разорвали бумагу и не будет никаких нахлебников.
  • MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 13 October 2013 16: 47 New
    0
    Quote: Ckyf
    Да, как плюшки делить, так Астана с Минском "Всегда готовы!", а как плюхи - так "мы только за экономический союз"...
    So you have to ask: guys, who do you want to be - allies or freebies of Russia in this alliance?

    В одиночку боязно ..))) Если что сразу вспоминают "Союз нерушимый республик свободных навеки сплотила Великая Русь.."...Вот так и живем.. drinks And we'll see ..
  • Semurg
    Semurg 13 October 2013 16: 50 New
    +5
    почитал. всем казахстанцам выступающим за союз, мнение не изменяется на счет союза? понимаю что здесь высказываемое мнение не мнение всей России и ее политической элиты ,но все же какой-то срез хотя бы мнение "интернетной улицы" и это еще более-менее сайт. или так и будем оправдываться мы не предавали ,мы честно воевали и строили ,и ничего не захапали (не напоминает про волка и ягненка). читаю данный сайт и все более убеждаюсь что рано о союзе заговорили .постоянно пишут рынок России важен в 2014 вступим в вто где весь мир рынок если есть конкурентный товар. конечно не экономист и не политик а простой таксист ,но все же союз это где-то брак по расчету или по любви -любви точно нет и даже просто симпатии не много ,расчет мне то же видится ошибочным изначально про рынок написал выше,про технологии с россиянами каша не варится ,оборона ? сами себя не сможем оборонить а другим мы на хе-р не нужны за нас жизнь класть(они и сами часто претензии на наши территории озвучивают кивая на Китай который таких претензий не выкатывает)инвестиции что то не слышал про Китай,США,Европа читал про Россию нет,трудовая миграция для нас сейчас не актуально штучных спецов и так наймем .вот и гложут смутные подозрения куда нас ведет "Сусанин" у него прежний авторитет силен пока это и удерживает от вопросов но они копятся.думаю скоро эти вопросы перерастут из количества в новое качество. Вопрос казахстанцам а не тем кому Казахстан-просто место жительства и не более как написано в одном посте выше.
    1. andrei332809
      andrei332809 13 October 2013 17: 03 New
      0
      Quote: Semurg
      we did not betray, we honestly fought and built, and did not grab anything

      Вы правы,но почему Вы своим соотечественникам не скажите тоже самое,когда они начинают кричать(именно кричать) о том,что только казахи к России относятся с "терпением",и поэтому мы должны их выделить из других и чуть ли не памятники ставить поместным "чингисханам"?
      py.sy.a zaete, I still remember how Kazakhstan blocked the Urals so that the fish that went to spawn remained on the territory of the independent. In our region, after these manipulations, the Urals began to deflate very quickly - fishing turned into talk under the vodka. this, of course, is not bad, but sometimes you want to catch something. and what were Russia's claims? Well, we understand ... well, for two years ... what do we have in the end?
      1. Zymran
        Zymran 13 October 2013 17: 14 New
        +5
        Quote: andrei332809
        Вы правы,но почему Вы своим соотечественникам не скажите тоже самое,когда они начинают кричать(именно кричать) о том,что только казахи к России относятся с "терпением",и поэтому мы должны их выделить из других и чуть ли не памятники ставить поместным "чингисханам"?


        Kazakhstan does not require subsidies, bad loans, gas or anything else at a bargain price. He buys the products of your tazoprom. Entered into the Customs Union, which is completely disadvantageous for the population and small and medium-sized businesses. What more do you need?

        Quote: andrei332809
        py.sy.a zaete, I still remember how Kazakhstan blocked the Urals


        У Вас есть источники подтверждающие, что "Казахстан перекрывал Урал"? Гугл не знает об этом, да и я слабо представляю, как можно перекрыть реку.
        1. andrei332809
          andrei332809 13 October 2013 17: 42 New
          0
          Quote: Zymran
          how to block a river

          they didn’t block the river, but the fish passage (if I may say so) -just blocked with nets in several places (so that the bursting would get stuck a little further). About subsidies-Your statements are not even funny (sorry) ... not only are you trying to blackmail us to raise prices there, where these prices are provided by Russian specialists (baikonur), you also resort to threats, and we will give amers, and you will be left without our infrastructure request well, so decide in the end, are we ONE COUNTRY or political education?
          пы.сы.человек решает для себя сам. а политики пусть "балуются" и жируют-не вечно верёвочке виться
          1. Zymran
            Zymran 13 October 2013 18: 02 New
            +3
            Quote: andrei332809
            about subsidies - your statements are not even funny (sorry) ... not only are you trying to blackmail us to raise prices where these prices are provided by Russian specialists (Baikonur),


            This is not subsidies, but the rent that Kazakhstan receives with weapons (most likely written-off and low-quality). We raise prices, because your side has repeatedly rolled us with a joint missile program, and also drops missiles on our heads.
            Compare this with the multibillion-dollar subsidies of Belarus.

            Quote: andrei332809
            We also resort to threats, and we will give amers, and you will be left without our infrastructure


            At the official level, there were no threats to give the spaceport to the Americans. This is a discussion on the forums.
      2. Semurg
        Semurg 13 October 2013 18: 07 New
        +4
        at the expense of fish spawning there everyone poaches and this is not Kazakhstan’s merit, damn it again we are not guilty fish laughing
        1. Zymran
          Zymran 13 October 2013 18: 12 New
          +6
          By the way, our border guards constantly catch Dagestanis poaching in our territorial waters.
        2. andrei332809
          andrei332809 13 October 2013 20: 13 New
          +2
          Quote: Semurg
          damn again we are guilty the fish do not reach

          не,ну а кто "моих" карасей вылавливает? No.
  • MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 13 October 2013 17: 45 New
    0
    Не обижайтесь! Но там ваша экономика растет благосостояние народа и т.д.. Вы свою территорию контролируете вообще..? или только возле крупных городов которых у вас очень мало ?..На Россию надеетесь типо прикроют если что..Опять как в фильме "Белое солнце в пустыне" будет ..? Я немного утрирую но просто ваш оптимизм в нынешней обстановке в мире меня настораживает..очень..Опять кровь наша будет ( как здесь выразился один форумчанин известный..)))
    1. andrei332809
      andrei332809 13 October 2013 18: 15 New
      0
      Quote: MIKHAN
      .On Russia you hope

      exactly. mine was like in Kzyl-Orda (about 2 years ago) - in Soviet times there was asphalt to the envy of Leningrad (there is no such humidity), parks laid with slabs (pedestrian so-Soviet). after she arrived in shock, alright, at least directions there are no roads, so there is sand, dust, clay all around, who laid the track on the jeep, there’s the road. In the floor houses (from 2x to 9 and, well, Soviet) KAMYSH grows from the basements, does this mean swamp in the basement? buckets that residents pour right into the ditches near the house (moreover, the ditches themselves dug the ditches, as there is no money for the district) probably, in the capitals of this unique sprout of democracy everything is absolutely wrong, but why not the advocates of self-determination to travel to their provinces and ask the people who live there, how are you developing in a democratic society?
      1. Zymran
        Zymran 13 October 2013 18: 24 New
        +4
        Well, here's a photo of Kyzyl-Orda

        http://photogoroda.com/photo-goroda-Kyzylorda-photo-city-278024.html

        Not Rio de Janeiro, of course, and not even Moscow, but it does not look like a post-apocalypse either.
        1. Semurg
          Semurg 13 October 2013 18: 39 New
          +4
          Quote: Zymran
          Well, here's a photo of Kyzyl-Orda

          http://photogoroda.com/photo-goroda-Kyzylorda-photo-city-278024.html

          Not Rio de Janeiro, of course, and not even Moscow, but it does not look like a post-apocalypse either.

          Zimran .this depends on the person himself, you can see the new beautiful, but you can look for the negative. once in the subject our photos of Almaty were posted and our ex wrote only about the garbage around the markets, as if in Russia there was cleanliness and order everywhere.
          1. andrei332809
            andrei332809 13 October 2013 18: 46 New
            0
            Quote: Semurg
            it depends on the person himself, you can see the new beautiful, but you can look out for the negative

            let's not exaggerate ...? my identity brought photographs. this is her childhood, and there was NOTHING REMAINING there, except for devastation.
            py.sy. request
          2. Zymran
            Zymran 13 October 2013 18: 48 New
            +2
            Of course, the one who everywhere searches for Mr. that will find him even in the Louvre.)))
        2. andrei332809
          andrei332809 13 October 2013 18: 43 New
          0
          Quote: Zymran
          http://photogoroda.com/photo-goroda-Kyzylorda-photo-city-278024.html

          and how to follow the link?
          1. romb
            romb 13 October 2013 18: 46 New
            0
            and how to follow the link?

            Выделить ссылку, нажать правую кнопку мыши, выбрать: "открыть ссылку в новой вкладке" hi
            1. andrei332809
              andrei332809 13 October 2013 18: 49 New
              0
              Quote: romb
              "открыть ссылку в новой вкладке"

              thank you hi
              прошу прощенья,ни хрена не открывается-выдаёт "ошибка". ну да бог с ним .присутствующие на месте лучше знают,как там и что-поверю на слово
          2. Zymran
            Zymran 13 October 2013 18: 46 New
            +2
            Duc, copy-paste, as usual. smile
      2. romb
        romb 13 October 2013 18: 44 New
        +2
        You are wrong, never in Kyzylorda (even with the union) there was normal asphalt. As for: envy Leningrad - the usual lyrics. I have a lot of acquaintances, hailing from there, and they just say that in recent years it has finally begun to turn into a more or less normal city, and not like under the Union - muhos ... sk on the Syr Darya.
        1. Zymran
          Zymran 13 October 2013 18: 51 New
          +5
          Kyzyldyr, as it was called before.
          Here are more pictures and discussion of the construction of http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1475599
          1. andrei332809
            andrei332809 13 October 2013 20: 17 New
            0
            Quote: Zymran
            Kyzyldyra

            such familiar notes .. winked
        2. andrei332809
          andrei332809 13 October 2013 20: 44 New
          -1
          Quote: romb
          I have a lot of friends, hailing from there, and they just say that in recent years it has finally begun to turn into a more or less normal city, and not like under the Union - mukhos ... sk on the Syr Darya.

          I suspect who you believe, but, based on information from relatives existing there, they lie to you. Surely not specifically, but ...
    2. Semurg
      Semurg 13 October 2013 18: 28 New
      +2
      Well, I don’t look at the world through the scope I repent, if you are worried about this, thank you for your concern. hope for Russia? I have big doubts, I think, as if on the contrary, the section was not started; there is a long-standing (Poland) and not long-standing (Georgia) reason. Welfare depends on what to compare if it grew with the 90s. In cities it’s easier in villages more heavily, but it’s always been like this on the earth; it’s necessary to work; it’s not possible to hose (both you will work and eat) there are few large cities for our territory, well, this is a gainful business. maybe he answered not what they asked but as I understood
      1. andrei332809
        andrei332809 13 October 2013 18: 40 New
        0
        Quote: Semurg
        Well, I do not look at the world through the scope I repent

        да никто вас(казахов)ни в чём особо и не обвиняет.каждый крутися как может.но зачем плевать в морду соседу,который,если отбросить всякие загогулины о "независимости", на самом деле был(и,мать его,остаётся) "старшим" братом?
        1. Semurg
          Semurg 13 October 2013 19: 24 New
          +2
          [quote = andrei332809] [quote = semurg] well, I do not look at the world through the scope I confess [/ quote]
          Yes, no one (Kazakhs) specifically accuses you of anything. Everyone can do it as best as possible. So he started well, and then soup with a cat laughing
          1. andrei332809
            andrei332809 13 October 2013 19: 33 New
            0
            Quote: Semurg
            and then soup with a cat

            don't get smart tongue I always liked Kazakhstan cognac - only smaller sugar drinks
            1. Semurg
              Semurg 13 October 2013 19: 40 New
              +2
              Quote: andrei332809
              Quote: Semurg
              and then soup with a cat

              don't get smart tongue I always liked Kazakhstan cognac - only smaller sugar drinks

              he himself tongue not now only beer age drinks
              1. andrei332809
                andrei332809 13 October 2013 19: 45 New
                0
                Quote: Semurg
                he himself
                good
                and what prevents to agree? Well, except for politicians?
                1. Semurg
                  Semurg 13 October 2013 19: 54 New
                  +1
                  Quote: andrei332809
                  Quote: Semurg
                  he himself
                  good
                  and what prevents to agree? Well, except for politicians?

                  the most important politicians are for, fears for me personally and for part of our population.
                  1. andrei332809
                    andrei332809 13 October 2013 19: 58 New
                    0
                    Quote: Semurg
                    I have concerns

                    Do you have preferential taxation there? or bureaucrats frighten from different machees, emveda or ses?
                    пы.сы.извини,что на "ты".можно?
                    1. Semurg
                      Semurg 13 October 2013 20: 56 New
                      +1
                      Quote: andrei332809
                      Quote: Semurg
                      I have concerns

                      Do you have preferential taxation there? or bureaucrats frighten from different machees, emveda or ses?
                      пы.сы.извини,что на "ты".можно?

                      you it is easier. Fears personally selfish and for the country. earlier a taxi changed me every 2-3 years, after entering the TS Lafa ended up getting what I have. gasoline is now at a price equal to Russia again afford it. The prices have flown up with Russia and salaries are far behind and this affects my earnings. Inside the country and external problems. Russia strongly enters into a clinch with the USA and we are not willing to participate in it. Well, for example, you decide to introduce visas from Central Asia and we have to follow this, or Azerbaijan will want to restore its integrity and Russia will fit in and we will have to though we have a different look at this and there are a lot of such examples. For me, as I wrote earlier, we need bilateral good-neighborly relations without unions, since neither we nor Russians will fly to the moon, which means we will live nearby. That's why I write the vehicles were created, we need to live and see not to run into the union what is happening now but in general the topic is huge and you won’t describe it in a short post. I used to watch out of habit news in Moscow after creating the TS I decided to joke with whom the union began to watch on the Internet and then Oh, I don’t see it very much for me, sometimes I feel a rash from koment and you’re not feeling very comfortable. I really wrote to me once that someone winds it up with a specialist, but the sediment remains unpleasant.
                      1. andrei332809
                        andrei332809 13 October 2013 21: 22 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Semurg
                        , after joining the TS Lafa ended

                        et yeah .. but I didn’t think if they (the leaders) would come together in one place ... well, all right, if at least of three people do one thing, and then all right. how Andrei Andreich is lacking ...
                        py.s. About the first sentence, I thought (I repent wassat ), but I would like to keep the KPV in my hands (and to hell with it, which does not have a single-shot mode)
                        py.py.sy.ya terrorist?
                      2. Semurg
                        Semurg 13 October 2013 21: 41 New
                        +2
                        there are no such radical thoughts. rulers are the same people and they have the right to make mistakes, but generally they have dog work. here I had a chat with someone, talked with someone, was silent for some money, ripped someone off for nothing , came home relaxed granddaughter of law shakes Ecuador from Uruguay 0-1 wins the world for everyone, and politicians and businessmen have eternal problems eternal affairs and for 01 it’s probably not in life to watch in the toilets but a solid reality show and everything around with requests and problems a another country and people expect gingerbread from them in general jo --- pa.
                      3. andrei332809
                        andrei332809 13 October 2013 22: 04 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Semurg
                        generally jo --- pa

                        noooo, democracy
  • Alibekulu
    Alibekulu 13 October 2013 19: 40 New
    +3
    You protect yourself, worry about your territory, otherwise migrants cry all the time for your bread.
  • MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 13 October 2013 19: 21 New
    0
    Quote: andrei332809
    Quote: MIKHAN
    .On Russia you hope

    exactly. mine was like in Kzyl-Orda (about 2 years ago) - in Soviet times there was asphalt to the envy of Leningrad (there is no such humidity), parks laid with slabs (pedestrian so-Soviet). after she arrived in shock, alright, at least directions there are no roads, so there is sand, dust, clay all around, who laid the track on the jeep, there’s the road. In the floor houses (from 2x to 9 and, well, Soviet) KAMYSH grows from the basements, does this mean swamp in the basement? buckets that residents pour right into the ditches near the house (moreover, the ditches themselves dug the ditches, as there is no money for the district) probably, in the capitals of this unique sprout of democracy everything is absolutely wrong, but why not the advocates of self-determination to travel to their provinces and ask the people who live there, how are you developing in a democratic society?

    I saw the same thing .. (in Russia, of course, we don’t have a fountain either, but still) They simply threw everything into the former and nobody needed all the infrastructure .. extinct villages are a normal phenomenon .. (and how much labor the country’s resources put into it. .) Huge territories again turn into a wild desert .. as before ...
    1. andrei332809
      andrei332809 13 October 2013 19: 29 New
      +1
      Quote: MIKHAN
      .as before

      I’m afraid that it will get worse. I’ve got peasants to take photos here, I believe them, I support them more, I strive to improve my country (without irony), but I have even less faith in their bureaucrats than in their
    2. Semurg
      Semurg 13 October 2013 19: 36 New
      +5
      Quote: MIKHAN
      Quote: andrei332809
      Quote: MIKHAN
      .On Russia you hope


      I saw the same thing .. (in Russia, of course, we don’t have a fountain either, but still) They simply threw everything into the former and nobody needed all the infrastructure .. extinct villages are a normal phenomenon .. (and how much labor the country’s resources put into it. .) Huge territories again turn into a wild desert .. as before ...

      Где-то в соседней ветке карс выкладывал снимкм по брошенным городкам в России то-же зрелище удручающее.Живу в Шымкенте сейчас у меня в поселке поменяли всю инфраструктуру газ и воду пластик трубы,свет новые столбы и изолированные провода еще улицу заасфальтируют и вообще шик блеск.так что слухи о нашей смерти немного преждевременны поселок кстати далеко не элитный а самая настоящая "воронья слободка"
      1. andrei332809
        andrei332809 13 October 2013 20: 24 New
        0
        Quote: Semurg
        picture of abandoned towns in Russia is the same sight depressing

        well you compared wassat when the centers still reach (well, if they suspect the existence) request and people don’t need at all until someone takes money away repeat is it different? don’t share the secret?