Military Review

Will Russia take away Ana from Antonov?

144
Will Russia take away Ana from Antonov?



Russia can begin independent production of transport aircraft of the An brand, in the event that an agreement is not reached with the Ukrainian Antonov Design Bureau. The unwillingness of the Ukrainian side to compromise in conjunction with the political aspirations of Kiev to the West threaten to deprive the country of its own aircraft industry


What I won't eat ...

Ambitious projects to resume the production of the An-124 super heavy transport aircraft and launch the An-70 heavy military transport aircraft (VTS) into the series have been discussed for a very long time, but practical progress has not yet been observed.

For the first time, the idea of ​​“restarting” the An-124 “Ruslan” series production was announced in 2006 year. In August 2007, an agreement was signed between the Ukrainian manufacturers Motor Sich and the Antonov ASTC, on the one hand, and the Russian airline Volga-Dnepr, on the other, to resume the mass production of this machine. Moreover, the potential market "Ruslan" to 2030 year was estimated at a hundred cars. Volga-Dnepr Airlines planned to become the first customer of this aircraft by purchasing the first 17 aircraft. In addition, there were reports of interest in the "Ruslans" by the Russian military. The “restart” of production was to take place at the Aviastar plant (Ulyanovsk, Volga region) - in fact, in the same place where all the serial Ruslans were produced (49 machines, not counting the experimental and pre-series 6, produced by the Aviant plant in Kiev).

The task was not the easiest - the mass production of Ruslan, begun in 1986, actually ended in 1995, and the production of power structures for new aircraft - in 1992-1993. The latest 4 machines, handed over in the first half of the 2000-x, represent a "pre-assembly" of the Soviet technological reserve. And, thus, for today the break makes 20 years. The staff and production equipment required for the production of these machines is completely lost. And today Aviastar, like Aviant, can only repair Ruslans. The cost of restarting production is estimated at 120-150 billion rubles.

The same problem of “starting from scratch”, in fact, arises with the production of An-70 - with the difference that this aircraft has no “serial stories". The launch of the car, planned by the Kazan Aviation Plant, will be expensive - as much, no less than the resuscitation of the Ruslan production.



... That is a bite

The formal copyright holder on the An-124 and An-70 is the Ukrainian Antonov Design Bureau, which frankly does not want to transfer the corresponding rights to Russian counterparties. In turn, the Russian side, having sufficient monetary resources, refuses to invest them in production, without controlling the key object - the aircraft itself. Taking into account the regular political frictions of Kiev and Moscow and the tendency, characteristic of the leaders of the Ukrainian industry, to suddenly change the already agreed conditions and refuse agreements, the situation with the production of these machines begins to resemble a fairy tale about a white bull.

At the same time, Ukraine’s ongoing aspiration for integration with the EU and the corresponding consequences for cooperation with Russia largely untie Moscow’s hands. Not having formal rights to An-124 and An-70 Russia, however, has all the necessary technological and design documentation for these machines, while not bound by any obligations prohibiting the reproduction of the relevant decisions. Further delays, combined with the unfriendly behavior of Kiev on other issues, may lead to Moscow going to the “Chinese version” of solving the problem.

As is known, the basis of the model lineup of the Chinese aircraft industry is made up of machines directly copied from foreign prototypes (J-7, J-11, H-6, Y-8) or created with extensive use of foreign solutions (J-8, J-10, FC -1, MA-60, etc.). Russia does not need to copy the entire existing Antonov line. Most likely, it will not be necessary to restart the production of AH-124. Today's predictions about the real market capacity for this car do not confirm the initial optimistic plans. Apparently, the remotorization and overhaul of the existing park will be quite enough.

But the mass production in Russia, say, of the TK-1 aircraft (conditionally), which is strangely similar to the An-70, is more than realistic. And the engines are likely to be the same - the Ukrainian D-27. It is unlikely that Motor Sich will refuse to produce them only because the plane suddenly changes its registration. In the extreme case, the experience of copying foreign gas turbine engines from Russian factories is.
Author:
Originator:
http://rus.ruvr.ru/2013_10_09/Rossija-otnimet-Ani-u-Antonova-7251/
144 comments
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  1. Lech from our city
    Lech from our city 11 October 2013 07: 06
    47
    Yes, and the Chinese version is inevitable.
    In the west, the AN-124 and AN-70 are not needed and competitors (French, Italians, British) will try to drown the very possibility of producing these machines.
    Cooperation with RUSSIA is skidding, I think purely because of the position of the leadership of UKRAINE (behind which these hehe competitors are behind)
    Stupid and stupid for UKRAINE.
    1. Kibalchish
      Kibalchish 11 October 2013 07: 17
      31
      You just need to lure the chief designers and engineers to Russia. And we have the capacity for production in our country. And there will be an Russian wink
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 11 October 2013 07: 21
        17
        Quote: Kibalchish
        . And there will be an Russian

        Yes, he is already ours, just after the collapse of the country, such nonsense goes.
        In general, Ukraine would go to .... the European market, to do everything ourselves would be cheaper, and the right-yes, China put on them.
      2. kris
        kris 11 October 2013 08: 16
        +4
        What kind of regular anti-Ukrainian are you ser?
        how many nations can you push your foreheads together?
        hucksters do not share the loot, and people suffer.
        such libel go only to the benefit of Bendera from the West!
        and no one thinks about ordinary Russian people in Ukraine.
        and many have relatives on this forum. Can we think about them?
        those who seized power no matter how grandmas to rub, that with Russia, that with the EU.

        PS: the number of rams on our forum who are "being" led to such libels is very disappointing.
        1. domokl
          domokl 11 October 2013 08: 37
          34
          Quote: kris
          : It is very disappointing to see the number of rams on our forum who are "led" to such libels.

          There are two opinions for you? One is yours, the other is not right? I wonder where you read what the nations are facing? It's about the economy. Russia has invested heavily in Antonov’s projects and now, in the new conditions, it will naturally look for options for their return .
          I beg you to choose expressions in relation to members of the forum ...
          1. kris
            kris 11 October 2013 19: 44
            -4
            Quote: domokl
            There are two opinions for you? One is yours, the other is not right? I wonder where you read what the nations are facing? It's about the economy. Russia has invested heavily in Antonov’s projects and now, in the new conditions, it will naturally look for options for their return .

            to start the numbers in the studio please.
            Is Antonov against cooperation? Our elite wants to break all ties by punishing Ukraine. Golimaya policy. And only airbases and Boeing are the winners.
            Well, he is dead with his trough.
            Specialists in Russia and Ukraine - for cooperation.
            But we do not have our own Boguslaev. but there are only dead!
            Quote: domokl
            I beg you to choose expressions in relation to members of the forum ...

            I respect most members of the forum, especially professionals and people who are not afraid to have an opinion that is different from the general, but I hate sheep that obey the herd instinct and do not have their own I.
        2. Jurkovs
          Jurkovs 11 October 2013 11: 39
          11
          Quote: kris
          and no one thinks about ordinary Russian people in Ukraine.

          - who regularly vote for the enemies of Russia, otherwise there would not be this tyagomotin.
          1. Nogicune
            Nogicune 11 October 2013 12: 53
            13
            I remember an anecdote: a Jew who has many children every day from morning to evening, prays and complains to the Lord what a hard life he has, prays, prays, complains, asks, the Lord is tired of it, he pushes the clouds apart and says, "Listen, you at least buy a lottery ticket "!
            I’m talking about this, but all the same phrase that no one thinks about ordinary Russian people in Ukraine, but thinks little about themselves, it seems that only the simple Russian people are worried about the fate of the simple Ukrainian people, and the Ukrainians themselves are quiet and complain how bad they are, and that Russia abandoned them
            1. kris
              kris 11 October 2013 19: 22
              0
              Quote: Nogicune
              and think little of ourselves

              I would like to hear real concrete suggestions!
          2. kris
            kris 11 October 2013 19: 30
            -1
            Quote: Jurkovs
            - who regularly vote for the enemies of Russia,

            Putin and Edrosnya supported the party of regions in the last election.
            So they supported the enemies of Russia?
            1. Botanologist
              Botanologist 11 October 2013 21: 36
              +1
              Quote: kris
              Putin and Edrosnya supported the party of regions in the last election.
              So they supported the enemies of Russia?


              Yes, in Ukraine, do not support anyone - anyone begins to portray a specific kid.
        3. Pushkar
          Pushkar 11 October 2013 14: 22
          +6
          Quote: kris
          in Ukraine.

          In Russian they say "in Ukraine", so change the box, sir. And yet, are you threatening, speaking about the fate of our relatives in Ukraine?
          1. kris
            kris 11 October 2013 19: 18
            +4
            Quote: Pushkar
            In Russian they say "in Ukraine", so change the box, sir. And yet, are you threatening, speaking about the fate of our relatives in Ukraine?

            I will explain for especially "gifted" Moscow residents!
            I was born and raised in Sevastopol and there I have relatives living there.
            And so I care about everything that happens around Ukraine.
            And the clash of peoples is already bearing fruit.
            I tested it on myself. A week ago, my father and I visited the General Staff of the General Staff, documents had to be found. And there the 25-year-old jerk rebuked his father that he was not obliged to fuss for a citizen of a hostile country. And he said this to a major of the Marine Corps, who had retired under the Soviet Union.
            I hardly managed to keep my father from assault.
        4. Misantrop
          Misantrop 11 October 2013 16: 12
          +4
          Quote: kris
          hucksters do not share the loot , and people suffer.
          such libel go only to the benefit of Bendera from the West!
          and no one thinks about ordinary Russian people in Ukraine.
          and many have relatives on this forum. Can we think about them?
          And what's next, we will help hucksters finish loot without interference? Strongly it will help simple Ukrainians?
          1. kris
            kris 11 October 2013 19: 19
            +4
            Quote: Misantrop
            And what's next, we will help hucksters finish loot without interference? Strongly it will help simple Ukrainians?

            And how do Russian hucksters differ from Ukrainian?
      3. lelikas
        lelikas 11 October 2013 12: 20
        +8
        Quote: Kibalchish
        And there will be an Russian

        For example, if someone in one country can build ships of Project 12322 for sale, then someone in another country can very well arrange the production of AN aircraft.
        1. Victor
          Victor 11 October 2013 20: 15
          +2
          Quote: lelikas
          For example, if someone in one country can build ships of Project 12322 for sale, then someone in another country can very well arrange the production of AN aircraft.

          But you quite rightly noticed this. I remember that when Ukraine began building Zubrov for China, no one in Ukraine thought to remember the rights of the Russian design bureaus that created these machines. So everything is fair. Or we bl ... not to be confused with a misunderstanding?
          1. Akim
            Akim 11 October 2013 20: 20
            +3
            Quote: Victor
            I remember that when Ukraine began building Zubrov for China, no one in Ukraine thought to remember the rights of the Russian design bureaus that created these machines.

            Yeah of course. You have a short memory. They almost sued then, and the Russian media launched such an anti-company.
            1. Victor
              Victor 11 October 2013 20: 31
              +4
              Quote: Akim
              Yeah of course. You have a short memory. They almost sued then, and the Russian media launched such an anti-company.

              So they did not remember about Russian rights in Ukraine. It is clear that Russia was indignant. And now, as they say, debt is red by payment. For what Ukraine fought, it ran into something. Unfortunately. It would be better to decide everything in the world.
              1. Akim
                Akim 11 October 2013 21: 13
                +2
                Quote: Victor
                . And now, as they say, debt is a payment of beauty

                You can - please. Let it be called at least "drydolet-124" if only it flies and is operated for the benefit. Only the question rests on engines, wing, etc. Bison, aka Bison, although he has Soviet drawings, does without imported components, including skirts.
                1. Current 72
                  Current 72 11 October 2013 23: 55
                  +3
                  Akim. The Bison has Soviet drawings ....! And what AN does not have Soviet drawings? Since when did you begin to call everything Soviet UKRAINIAN, because all the great power worked on these and other developments. Now you create something of your own, and then shout that it is UKRAINIAN.
                  1. Akim
                    Akim 12 October 2013 06: 10
                    0
                    Quote: Current 72
                    Since when did you begin to call everything Soviet UKRAINIAN,

                    I AM? The Lord is with you. An-140,148, etc. Ukrainian. An-124 Soviet. An-70 joint development. But the fact is that not all the drawings were transferred to the RSFSR, but only those that specifically concerned the production of the necessary components and the assembly of the aircraft. Russia will be able to fully restore them - excellent. If you can not and will collect together. toga fuck this article?
      4. AVV
        AVV 11 October 2013 16: 21
        10
        Yes, and no one needs to be lured, if production closes in one country, the question arises where to find work! And production opens in another country, specialists will strive there, and where else to realize their skills and talents !!! Example of relocation of production of IL 74 from Tashkent to Russia, followed by specialists from this republic !!!
      5. nik6006
        nik6006 11 October 2013 16: 51
        +2
        Quote: Kibalchish
        You just need to lure the chief designers and engineers to Russia. And we have the capacity for production in our country. And there will be an Russian wink


        It is strange from Malchish-Kibalchish to hear such bourgeois reasoning, and it is somehow embarrassing even. But even worse, he is right. The situation so turns that we really need AN-70, but there are no rights. The Chinese version, alas ...
      6. Geisenberg
        Geisenberg 11 October 2013 18: 15
        +1
        Quote: Kibalchish
        You just need to lure the chief designers and engineers to Russia. And we have the capacity for production in our country. And there will be an Russian wink


        Then it’s easier to buy copyright for the production of salettes. It will be cheaper, I think. And let the engineer with the designers strengthen their native suburbs. And it’s even easier to do as the author recommends - the plane is very similar to the original.
    2. mirag2
      mirag2 11 October 2013 07: 21
      13
      You know, I think that the Ukrainian ranks are abnormally emotional. In general, at the state level, I think emotions are unacceptable. And Ukrainians, excuse me, are behaving incorrectly (just like Lukashenko at the time). We agreed to buy gas, so buy it. We have Khrushchev, the stupid bastard — he gave Crimea to Ukraine — so you have it now. We didn’t drag him out of the grave and didn’t tear him apart. And you? Your man signed an agreement — what market? And now you don’t like the price ...
      1. kris
        kris 11 October 2013 08: 22
        0
        Quote: mirag2
        You know, I think that the Ukrainian ranks are abnormally emotional. In general, at the state level, I think emotions are unacceptable. And Ukrainians, excuse me, are behaving incorrectly (just like Lukashenko at the time). We agreed to buy gas, so buy it. We have Khrushchev, the stupid bastard — he gave Crimea to Ukraine — so you have it now. We didn’t drag him out of the grave and didn’t tear him apart. And you? Your man signed an agreement — what market? And now you don’t like the price ...

        do not confuse ordinary people with gangster power (the same as ours).
        and the contract is painfully muddy. it's like a fine print in a loan agreement. how many people suffered because of this. do you think it is necessary to support usurers-bankers?
        1. domokl
          domokl 11 October 2013 08: 43
          12
          Quote: kris
          do not confuse ordinary people with gangster power (the same as ours).

          You yourself are not ridiculous to write about ordinary people? Who told you that ordinary people are against the policy of the Ukrainian government? Do you see rallies on the Maidan (and this is quite possible for Ukraine), do you see oppositions?
          Ukrainians are tired of the fact that everyone who comes to power makes things worse. And the Ukrainian media traditionally make Russia guilty. Such mass processing has done its job.
          read the comments even on this resource from Ukrainians. And the situation will become clear.
          1. Egoza
            Egoza 11 October 2013 09: 40
            14
            Quote: domokl
            You see rallies on the Maidan

            Dear Alexander! There are rallies! And mainly for joining the Customs Union. But they are silent about them and generally try to "not notice". But they will come to the main Maidan when there is already a very decisive moment. IMHO
            1. domokl
              domokl 11 October 2013 10: 09
              +7
              Quote: Egoza
              ! There are rallies! And mainly for joining the vehicle.

              Hello Elena! I agree that someone somewhere and sometime possibly protests. But remember the reaction of the people to the arrest of Tymoshenko. Agree that Tymoshenko and the departure from good-neighborly relations with Russia a little are not equivalent actions.
              I’m worried about something else. I’ll make a reservation only on the basis of this resource. There is a sharp rejection on both sides. Already quite a lot of colleagues almost wither at the word Ukraine or Russia (if from the Ukrainian side) These are people who have not only been familiar through the Internet for a long time , but also many personally.
              What then are the moods of ordinary people who still trust the media in both countries?
              1. REZMovec
                REZMovec 11 October 2013 15: 50
                +4
                When Tymoshenko was properly planted, rallies in her support paid well ... And for pensioners and students I don’t care who they rally for - an extra 100 hryvnias is a good addition to their pension and students at McDonald's ... Simple Ukrainian people are tired of everything that happens and doesn't believe anyone. Authorities on their own, people on their own. And your media has done no less for contention between Russians and Ukrainians.
          2. Black Colonel
            Black Colonel 11 October 2013 11: 56
            +5
            "Moskali and SSE peretoptaly came" - the usual cause of all the troubles
            1. Misantrop
              Misantrop 11 October 2013 16: 08
              +5
              Quote: Black Colonel
              "Moskali and SSE peretoptaly came" - the usual cause of all the troubles
              Or "ne priishly, and the mustache just rotted away, not perturbed ..." lol
          3. kris
            kris 11 October 2013 20: 01
            +3
            Quote: domokl
            You yourself are not ridiculous to write about ordinary people? Who told you that ordinary people are against the policy of the Ukrainian government? Do you see rallies on the Maidan (and this is quite possible for Ukraine), do you see oppositions?
            Ukrainians are tired of the fact that everyone who comes to power makes things worse. And the Ukrainian media traditionally make Russia guilty. Such mass processing has done its job.
            read the comments even on this resource from Ukrainians. And the situation will become clear.

            read the comments of ordinary people.
            http://sevastopol.su/
            Yesterday, my father went to a rally in Sevastopol against association with the EU.
            Who prevented the Russian channels from showing it?
            1. michajlo
              michajlo 11 October 2013 23: 39
              +1
              kris (8) RU Today, 20:01 ↑ New
              Quote: domokl [b] You yourself are not funny to write about ordinary people? [/ B] who told you that ordinary people are against the policy of the government of Ukraine? You see rallies on the Maidan (and this is quite possible for Ukraine), do you see oppositions?
              Ukrainians are tired of the fact that everyone who comes to power makes things worse. [B] And the Ukrainian media traditionally make Russia guilty. Such mass processing has done its job. read the comments even on this resource from Ukrainians. And the situation will become clear. [/ b] read the comments of ordinary people.
              http://sevastopol.su/ вчера отец ходил на митинг в севастополе против ассоциации с ЕС.
              [b] Who prevented the Russian channels from showing it?
              [/B]

              Hello dear namesake!

              For nothing you take offense at propaganda from both sides !? It is ordered and PERFORMED according to instructions from Kiev and Moscow.

              [b] In Ukraine ON ALL TV CHANNELS [/ b]show and tryndy only about how "evil, greedy, vile and selfish Russia" offends and humiliates an innocent Ukraine !!!

              [b] And on the Russian TV-channels [/ b]- everywhere is just how "cunningly * opy, forgetful, vile Ukrainians" rob Russia, climb into the "* EU adnitsa" and so on ...

              A simple and trusting the layman in both countries, begins to transfer what he sees to
              a neighbor, employee, classmate and RISING well-managed and hyped Hate and Loathing between Russian and Ukrainian citizens !?

              And what do we all Soviet citizens[b] in fact it is NECESSARY to divide?
              - Legacy [/ b]
              Kievan Rus, Novgorod, Moscow, Sevastopol, Leningrad, BAM, Dneproges. Magnitogorsk, Ukrainian Cossacks of the Don, Kuban, or Zaporizhzhya Sich ?? angry

              Before how to succumb to provocations and do what they push us to "Occupation authorities in Kiev and Moscow", maybe everything is so [b] and it is worth thinking first ?! fool
              In my opinion, [b] we all save a lot of unnecessary apologies to each other, [/ b] when these troubled times of SECTION and HATE end.

              An offer to YOU, come on YOU?

              I wish you a nice weekend!
              And my dad, a veteran of the SOVIET MARINE, congratulations from the "civil" Mikhail, a Carpathian Rusyn from Slovakia.
              1. kris
                kris 12 October 2013 00: 48
                +2
                Quote: michajlo
                An offer to YOU, come on YOU?

                I wish you a nice weekend!
                And my dad, a veteran of the SOVIET MARINE, congratulations from the "civil" Mikhail, a Carpathian Rusyn from Slovakia.

                Of course, come on YOU! hi
                I’ll definitely tell my father.
                And you health and well-being in the family.
                Nice to chat with the Good Man!
        2. yanus
          yanus 11 October 2013 13: 08
          +6
          Quote: kris
          do not confuse ordinary people with gangster power (the same as ours).
          and the contract is painfully muddy. it's like a fine print in a loan agreement. how many people suffered because of this. do you think it is necessary to support usurers-bankers?

          Contracts are signed not by "ordinary people", but by lawyers. They are supposed to read all the fonts.
      2. REZMovec
        REZMovec 11 October 2013 15: 43
        -2
        What are you harnessing for gas? Is he gas yours? Or Gazpromovsky? Are you personally going to rollback from Gazprom? And the price for Ukraine is really inadequate!
        And remember - without Ukraine there will be no Russia.
        1. yanus
          yanus 11 October 2013 16: 08
          +4
          Quote: REZMovec
          Are you personally going to rollback from Gazprom?

          Personally, yes. For 2012 almost 30 thousand rubles. (stock dividends)
          But you forget that the money earned by Gazprom falls into the Russian economy. Purchase of equipment, sn employees, maintenance of gas pipelines, etc., etc. So the income of such large companies concerns almost every resident of the Russian Federation.
          I have a client - a contractor of Gazprom. For this company, Gazprom is the breadwinner, if Gazprom starts curtailing its investment programs, then this company will die. Accordingly, I will lose a client and part of my income. And there are thousands of such "client chains".
          There is simply no need to measure the economy in a "square-nesting way".
          1. REZMovec
            REZMovec 11 October 2013 19: 55
            +3
            You, dear, do not think that gas is the property of the entire Russian people, but that a small handful of "people" are enjoying the benefits of its production. If you do use it, then divide it equally.
          2. kris
            kris 11 October 2013 20: 06
            +1
            Quote: yanus
            Personally, yes. For 2012 almost 30 thousand rubles. (stock dividends)
            But you forget that the money earned by Gazprom falls into the Russian economy. Purchase of equipment, sn employees, maintenance of gas pipelines, etc., etc. So the income of such large companies concerns almost every resident of the Russian Federation.
            I have a client - a contractor of Gazprom. For this company, Gazprom is the breadwinner, if Gazprom starts curtailing its investment programs, then this company will die. Accordingly, I will lose a client and part of my income. And there are thousands of such "client chains".
            There is simply no need to measure the economy in a "square-nesting way".

            Do you know that people pay less for gas in Ukraine than in Russia?
            Thanks to the "national treasure" for this.
        2. Misantrop
          Misantrop 11 October 2013 16: 10
          +2
          Quote: REZMovec
          And the price for Ukraine is really inadequate!
          Who initiated the contract with THIS price? Here is to her, a scythe, and ALL questions request
          1. REZMovec
            REZMovec 11 October 2013 19: 57
            +1
            GDP and DAM should have seen a good rollback, they should have stood up for the slash. Did not think about it?
      3. Misantrop
        Misantrop 11 October 2013 16: 14
        +2
        Quote: mirag2
        Well, agreed to buy gas, so buy
        The whole problem is that Yulia agreed, and Vitya has to pay (which Yulia does not bear to the spirit). Hence the tantrum request
    3. Avenger711
      Avenger711 11 October 2013 08: 41
      +6
      In the west, the An-124 has no competitors, since the C-5 is only available in the Air Force, civil customers rent the An-124 from the same Volga-Dnepr.
      1. domokl
        domokl 11 October 2013 08: 45
        +4
        Quote: Avenger711
        In the west, the An-124 and has no competitors,

        I agree. He just doesn’t have them for a simple reason — he doesn’t need such an aircraft. Huge machines are used only in one place — in the production of aircraft on a cooperative basis. Parts of aircraft are brought from different countries.
        1. Avenger711
          Avenger711 11 October 2013 15: 40
          +2
          In reality, even the An-225 is now commercially exploited, on a planetary scale, there is always a single cargo ship weighing a hundred tons. That is, there is work, but there is not so much of it, and without a military order for air tankers, simply no one will develop a plane for it.
    4. michajlo
      michajlo 11 October 2013 10: 49
      +1
      Quote: Lech from our city
      Yes, and the Chinese version is inevitable.
      In the west, the AN-124 and AN-70 are not needed and competitors (French, Italians, British) will try to drown the very possibility of producing these machines.
      Cooperation with Russia is skidding I think purely because of the position of the leadership of UKRAINE (behind which these hehe competitors are behind)
      Stupid and stupid for UKRAINE.

      Hello dear "nickname"!

      You guessed, good as the old Slovak proverb says "Ste trafili ste po hlavicke klinca" / You hit (with a hammer) on the head of a nail.

      But what else can you expect from the "occupational power" in any capital in the post-Soviet space (except perhaps Minsk) !? am
    5. REZMovec
      REZMovec 11 October 2013 15: 33
      0
      The brain is "iput" roosiyane - read articles on the topic of An-70 90s - early 2000s. And they themselves cannot create something more sensible in the Russian Federation. The Il-76 was just being modernized - the "Soviet" mind is gone, everyone is out of date. Low-quality "Superjets", ghostly "Armata" ... What new, progressive have you created? YET YET YOU leave on the "Soviet groundwork". There are no designers, no scientists, there are effective managers ... The "Pepsi and Sexy" generation is no longer capable of anything, both from you and from us - only to plunder the assets of the USSR. The article is clearly anti-Ukrainian. The Russian Federation is hurting Ukraine everywhere - they bribed the Iraqis, they fucked up our armored personnel carriers, and right there, Iraq is considering the purchase of the BTR-82 from the Russian Federation. "The one who pays is the one who dances the girl ..." Negative and attacks leave to yourself. A Ukrainian who was friendlier to Russia than I had to be searched. BUT! The way a growing number of Russians relate to Ukraine and Ukrainians makes us draw the appropriate conclusions.
      1. 77bob1973
        77bob1973 12 October 2013 07: 04
        0
        At the expense of all about whether you are in vain. The production of IL-76 was only transferred to the Russian Federation. According to the BTR, it’s not possible to sell matches in other hot places.
  2. andrei332809
    andrei332809 11 October 2013 07: 10
    +8
    as they say, if you don’t use the girl himself, she will be added to the case by another. and about rights, I think they still belong to Russia as the heiress of the USSR. maybe not right, but somehow do not care (this is about the rights)
    1. mirag2
      mirag2 11 October 2013 07: 27
      +3
      And AN ... Of course, I would like the plane to be. Even let the brand change. How many components do we have there? 70% if I was sure that the state has grandmas, I would definitely say that they would be energized and put out I have the rest 30.
      Although here is an example to develop production? Please, we need to localize the production of components with us (demand for products, here are jobs). We will build ourselves, we will have our own industry. The plane is good. There is very little time. Europeans are on their heels. You can also with someone who is not so touchy (Indonesia, Brazil, etc.)
      1. REZMovec
        REZMovec 11 October 2013 15: 55
        +2
        While you will be "destiny dr_chit", the rich sheikhs from the AE have already proposed to organize a joint production of the ANs. By the way, they are quite smart guys in business, not like the roosiyans.
        1. Misantrop
          Misantrop 11 October 2013 16: 21
          +3
          Quote: REZMovec
          rich sheikhs from AE have already proposed to organize a joint production of ANs. By the way, they are quite agile in business.

          Do these sheiks produce anything themselves? Or can they only invest money? And then the three times mourned and unhappy "ordinary Ukrainian" will break the backbone against the efficient sheikh, improving his, and without this rather big, condition. But ... in this case, Russia will still remain to blame ... request
          1. Kars
            Kars 11 October 2013 16: 40
            +4
            Quote: Misantrop
            "a simple Ukrainian" will break the back of a smart sheikh, improving his, and without this rather big, condition. But ... in this case, Russia will still remain to blame

            Why blame it? If so, then she can be thanked for it. Otherwise, they’ll talk but they won’t build anything. Such projects are too tempting targets for political blackmail.
            And the workers will be happy with the salary, the local budget with a tax deduction, and they never get a percentage of the transaction amount))
            1. Misantrop
              Misantrop 11 October 2013 16: 48
              +5
              Quote: Kars
              If so, then she can be thanked for it. Otherwise, they will talk for nothing but will not build anything. Such projects are too tempting targets for political blackmail.
              What I can’t understand at all is the Ukrainian logic ... They agree to work for an Indian, easily for an Arab, for Europe - even for free. But for themselves - but for no reason, and together with the Russians - even more so ... sad
              What, money ran out in Ukraine in order to invest in the industry? Full of BP of frightened millionaires, there’s not a single one even with an average income, not that the poor ... No, they’ll sit and whimper that Russia does not give money for a joint project (to steal them right away and buy a Khatyn somewhere away ) ...
              1. Kars
                Kars 11 October 2013 19: 09
                +1
                Quote: Misantrop
                and the Arab - easily, to Europe - even for free.

                Work? Free? You did not go over there?
                Quote: Misantrop
                But on yourself

                I personally don’t refuse such an option, but it’s pretty fantastic. It’s more profitable to build roads than invest in industry - you can steal more there))
                Quote: Misantrop
                , and together with the Russians - even more so.

                With Russians? Do you mean Putin and the Imperator of All Russia? Papers have been written since 1994, and things are still there, only blackmail.
                Quote: Misantrop
                What, money ran out in Ukraine in order to invest in the industry?
                Well, it’s not possible without privatization, and now no one will take that risk. Today they will sell it, they will take away the power))
              2. REZMovec
                REZMovec 11 October 2013 20: 08
                +4
                The Russian leadership is constantly trying to blackmail the Ukrainian side in almost all joint projects. It means that it is beneficial for someone, so Airbus gives good kickbacks to some Russian "effective managers" from the RF Ministry of Defense and the RF Government.
                1. Botanologist
                  Botanologist 11 October 2013 21: 45
                  +1
                  Quote: REZMovec
                  The Russian leadership is trying all the time to blackmail the Ukrainian side on almost all joint projects.


                  Especially on the project for the sale of air defense systems to Georgia and the project for the injection of "technological" gas into underground gas storage facilities.
                  1. Akim
                    Akim 12 October 2013 06: 15
                    0
                    Quote: Botanologist
                    Especially on the project for the sale of air defense systems to Georgia and the project for the injection of "technological" gas into underground gas storage facilities.

                    Those who are not enemies with you? Those. if Ukraine sold the air defense system in Syria to a legitimate government, would that be right, but Tbilisi not? Yes, and what is process gas.
          2. REZMovec
            REZMovec 11 October 2013 20: 03
            0
            Sheikhs themselves want to produce ANY - they propose to build a plant in them, in the Emirates ... But the RF will be guilty - everything is right - there are a lot of show-offs and ambitions, only you stay in .. you stay.
        2. avt
          avt 11 October 2013 16: 55
          +5
          Quote: REZMovec
          While you will be "destiny dr_chit", the rich sheikhs from the AE have already proposed to organize a joint production of the ANs.

          Sure, not a problem ! Organize, the current seems to me that it will end all the same as with the joint venture that cut the aircraft carriers into metal, or like with the ski instructor that I was going to build liquefied gas plants. You don’t get used to it, there’s Azarenko’s fleet in Nikolaev for NATO with the Dutch were going to build, the guy got smoked on the tochnik. Well, with the sheikhs, well, make at least a couple of planes that you all threaten to freeze your ears and tell us how we don’t give your armored vehicles to you. So soon, you yourself will believe that Putin personally cut them for cracks in the case, here’s the place meeting with Yanukovych himself with Medvedchuk and sawed, cursed. laughing
          1. REZMovec
            REZMovec 11 October 2013 20: 13
            +2
            Well, Azarenka is with you, with us - Azarov, a "Russian saboteur", that is, "misdirected Cossack". Regarding the armored personnel carriers - have you personally seen cracks in the armor? I personally have not seen them there. As they say in the Russian-speaking environment: "To paint is not to load bags ..."
            1. avt
              avt 11 October 2013 21: 37
              -1
              Quote: REZMovec
              Well, Azarenka is with you, with us - Azarov, a "Russian saboteur", that is, "misdirected Cossack".

              Well, thanks to my typo, an agent of influence was revealed. laughing Now it’s known for sure that he specifically invited us to joy and on the mountain of an independent ski instructor. And you don’t need to look for cracks in the BTR, Azarov just pickles the ship at sea. Well, we didn’t disclose the Agent - maybe he threw it into the Russian press about cracks in the armored personnel carrier? Be sure to figure it out!
        3. Botanologist
          Botanologist 11 October 2013 21: 43
          +1
          Quote: REZMovec
          rich sheikhs from AE have already proposed to organize a joint production of ANs


          So let it go! What is the release plan for the rich sheikhs An?
          And, by the way, a serious question - has America solved them? So far, only rich sheikhs have thrown 3 lards into the 5rd transport ring around Moscow, which is viewed exclusively as a bribe, like "you don't need to touch us."
    2. alexdol
      alexdol 11 October 2013 08: 19
      11
      andrei332809 (2) RU ".... and about the truth, I think they still belong to Russia as the heir to the USSR ...."
      -------------------------------------------------- ------
      How much can you think here? Of course, all these RIGHTS belong to RUSSIA. as the very existence of the so-called "Ukraine" is obliged only to RUSSIA!
      In fact, out of stupidity or "kindness" Russia has taken and presented this "ukraine" part of its territory? And today it is just right to raise the question not about the rights to some ANs, but about returning the territory back!
      1. domokl
        domokl 11 October 2013 08: 51
        +3
        Quote: alexdol
        And today it’s time to raise the question not about the rights to any ANs, but about the return of the territory back!

        The question cannot be posed. As a person I agree .. we were one people, one state, but as an analyst I am completely against it.
        Ukraine is an independent state and now we need to talk at the interstate level.
        Both Russians and Ukrainians, for the most part, for unification, for friendship, for cooperation. But, as it seems to me, we think so more. It is precisely people who elected deputies and presidents in Russia and Ukraine. Of course, now it’s fashionable to say- we were deceived. However, what has been done is done.
        1. Jurkovs
          Jurkovs 11 October 2013 11: 48
          +4
          Quote: domokl
          as an analyst

          must take into account the way in which Ukraine was transferred to a different status, and what now to play according to the rules, which were invented only for us?
        2. Avenger711
          Avenger711 11 October 2013 15: 42
          +2
          We will wait for obviously unfriendly actions when the 1997 treaty can be lifted and the Crimea will have to be turned.
          1. Corneli
            Corneli 11 October 2013 16: 01
            +2
            Quote: Avenger711
            We will wait for clearly unfriendly actions when the 1997 treaty can be lifted and the Crimea will have to be rotated

            And the agreement says that if it is torn, then Ukraine is obliged will return Crimea? fellow
          2. saturn.mmm
            saturn.mmm 11 October 2013 16: 35
            +5
            Quote: Avenger711
            We will wait for obviously unfriendly actions when the 1997 treaty can be lifted and the Crimea will have to be turned.

            You would have to put things in order in your vast territory from the beginning and then think about other territories. Work and without the Crimea you Russians have no end and probably more important than the Crimea is the Far East.
            In the photo abandoned villages of Russia
            1. Russ69
              Russ69 11 October 2013 17: 02
              +2
              Quote: saturn.mmm
              In the photo abandoned villages of Russia

              Such villages are already easier to abandon than to revive.
              but it’s better to give the military to the training ground for training in urban combat.
              1. Ramadan
                Ramadan 11 October 2013 22: 14
                +2
                By the way, a good idea about the landfill. In my opinion, it could not be better. Just add "Welcome to Hell" on the walls for reality ...
  3. Ruslandeth
    Ruslandeth 11 October 2013 07: 10
    +3
    Good luck, Russian Aviators.

    Get down to business, finally, stop waiting for the Ukrainian side to sober up, this will not happen until the local corrupt elite is in power there. All that Ukraine is capable of in these matters is to shake off the mighty backlog left by the USSR. Moreover, solely in spite of the "damned katsap and Muscovites" - respected patriots of "Independent" - do not deny this fact, please.

    It's time, a long time.

    Still Superfloor to replace Nikolaevsk to rebuild ...
    1. mirag2
      mirag2 11 October 2013 07: 30
      13
      Yes, the shipyard is also a strategic thing. This may happen in the Far East. But after the flood, probably not before.
      By the way, by the way, I remembered why nobody helped us? During the flood, I didn’t hear at all that such humane Greenpeace Europeans would send at least some help to us., Maza faka ...
      1. Ruslandeth
        Ruslandeth 11 October 2013 07: 41
        +3
        After the Second World War, Stalin refused to participate in the Marshall Plan.

        Superpower handouts to anything - a matter of prestige, what kind of superpower are we that ourselves could not cope with the flood? Therefore, it’s not a shame.

        That’s why no one offered to help - that’s a rhetorical question.
        1. mirag2
          mirag2 11 October 2013 07: 55
          +1
          Dear comrade, What does Stalin have to do with this, and no one needs to refuse help at all.
          Especially for us, and especially now, what kind of superpower with a budget deficit?
          Three years, how they got out of the IMF debts. A superpower ...
          1. Ruslandeth
            Ruslandeth 11 October 2013 08: 20
            +3
            fear the Danes who bring gifts ..)
          2. pahom54
            pahom54 11 October 2013 10: 22
            +2
            Nah their help !!! We got help already in the 90s! I don’t know how anyone thinks, but we can do without their help! Their help consisted of ruminant-genomobilized candy wrappers, and second-hand ... When the country fell apart, their help only harmed us, they threw handouts like Papuans beads ...
            And about the irony about the superpower - it's you in vain ... Yes, superpower, everyone pulls and steals from us and sundry, and we are still rich. Well, we are a relative concept, however, by and large, we may be a little poor in technology, but we have everything for normal development. Yes, I almost forgot, there is still not enough normal and smart government, but this business is fixable over time ...
          3. Russ69
            Russ69 11 October 2013 17: 04
            +1
            Quote: mirag2
            Three years, how they got out of the IMF debts. A superpower ...

            That's exactly what they got out and accumulated reserves, unlike most countries that accumulate debts, even more ...
        2. Avenger711
          Avenger711 11 October 2013 08: 42
          +3
          And what would come to pay for participation? Turning into a dollar colony?
          1. Genry
            Genry 11 October 2013 11: 26
            +8
            So now there is a dollar colony. It is simply called "rub", but the cost is determined by the dollar purchased for the goods, put and frozen in the foreign exchange reserve. Therefore, Russia, having large foreign exchange reserves, cannot spend them for development, otherwise it will lead to a fall in the dollar exchange rate. The National Bank of Russia is, in fact, a branch of the US National Bank.
            Euros, yens, hryvnias, and other "tugriks" also have a value corresponding to the volume of the frozen dollar.
            The dumping of shaft reserves by countries with such money will lead to the collapse of the dollar, since this is the bulk of this paper.
            1. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 11 October 2013 12: 23
              +2
              Quote: Genry
              Therefore, Russia, having large foreign exchange reserves, cannot spend them for development, otherwise it will lead to a depreciation of the dollar.

              Well done. good
            2. Avenger711
              Avenger711 11 October 2013 15: 43
              0
              Now there is no Stalin. Already 60 years old, he died.
      2. Black Colonel
        Black Colonel 11 October 2013 12: 01
        +2
        By the way about the flood. In Komsomolsk aircraft factory was not injured?
        1. VAF
          VAF 11 October 2013 12: 05
          14
          Quote: Black Colonel
          In Komsomolsk aircraft factory was not injured?


          No ... only the SCAC has a little "flooded" the parking lot and warehouses of MTO, and then .... quite, quite a bit.
          The T-50-5 is already being "accepted" and next week in the air! wink
          1. Avenger711
            Avenger711 11 October 2013 15: 44
            -1
            And how do you know that they are already accepting him, a link to the studio.
            1. Corneli
              Corneli 11 October 2013 17: 29
              +3
              Quote: Avenger711
              And how do you know that they are already accepting him, a link to the studio.

              A little cha, a gorlopan, experienced and a waf minus, I look again raised rates) the voice erupted ...
            2. VAF
              VAF 11 October 2013 19: 29
              +4
              Quote: Avenger711
              And how do you know that they are already accepting him, a link to the studio.


              "sign up" for an appointment with the Deputy Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation Yuri Borisov or "enter" the commission ... you will know everything: bully
              Without any .. "links" wassat

              Photo: in the workshops of KnAZ, it is not yet possible from the LIS bully

            3. Botanologist
              Botanologist 11 October 2013 21: 50
              +3
              Quote: Avenger711
              link to the studio.


              Unlike you, on this site there are people who know life not only on the Internet.
          2. saturn.mmm
            saturn.mmm 11 October 2013 21: 28
            +2
            Quote: vaf
            The T-50-5 is already being "accepted" and next week in the air!

            And all the last time I thought something about the fifth silence, I thought that they had failed, but no, it turns out to be in the stable with hooves. Good news.
          3. Botanologist
            Botanologist 11 October 2013 21: 49
            +1
            Quote: vaf
            T-50-5 are already "accepted" and next week into the air


            You know how to please! drinks
      3. REZMovec
        REZMovec 11 October 2013 16: 04
        0
        The PLA helped, the "Shoigovites", former and present, were unable to ... Draw a conclusion.
    2. REZMovec
      REZMovec 11 October 2013 16: 02
      -4
      What are you going to build on these superyards? Shit "Mistral"? You have no mind, so build your fleet from potential opponents ... And buy "Leopards" and "Lynxes" from them, throw out your AK and jointly produce "Beretta" and "Binelli" ... Your potential has already been lost. Oh, there is no comrade Stalin! ..
  4. Orel
    Orel 11 October 2013 07: 12
    +6
    Russia is faced with the consequences of the collapse of the USSR. Many core industries are now located abroad or even lost. Creating everything from scratch is not easy, expensive and not always effective, because what is being created anew may already be a completed stage. Providing a self-sufficient defense industry is an urgent problem for us ...
    1. The comment was deleted.
  5. Normal
    Normal 11 October 2013 07: 16
    +3
    Russia does not need to copy the entire existing Antonov line. Most likely, the restart of the AN-124 production will not be necessary.

    Well, then what are we talking about in the article? We will restore the production of the An-124 though nobody needs it ...
    But the mass production in Russia, say, of the TK-1 aircraft (conditionally), strangely similar to the An-70, is more than real.
    Is the author confident in this "reality"? We barely brought the super-duper to production.
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 11 October 2013 07: 24
      +4
      Normal, you would read articles, not just headlines, you’re talking nonsense the second day. For you personally!
      Moreover, the potential market "Ruslan" until 2030 was estimated at one hundred cars.
      Volga-Dnepr Airlines planned to become the first customer of this aircraft, having bought the first 17 boards. In addition, there were reports of interest in the Ruslans by the Russian military.
      1. Avenger711
        Avenger711 11 October 2013 08: 44
        +2
        The Russian Air Force has 19 An-124 of which only 4 fly. Question, what the hell do you do right now like this?
        1. nickname 1 and 2
          nickname 1 and 2 11 October 2013 09: 59
          +3
          Quote: Avenger711
          The Russian Air Force has 19 An-124 of which only 4 fly. Question, what the hell do you do right now like this?


          And on tuga. = keep production potential, maintain (develop) the intellectual level of production forces, ... = = I hope this is enough?
          ditched the electronics? but restore ....? ho ho! and the little minds became extinct. and new ones will grow at 100 more expensive. So it is with aircraft.

          something like this.
          1. Avenger711
            Avenger711 11 October 2013 15: 46
            +1
            Then you need to design a new car, and the existing ranks and upgrade from which no one refuses.
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. Russ69
          Russ69 11 October 2013 17: 08
          0
          Quote: Avenger711
          The Russian Air Force has 19 An-124 of which only 4 fly. Question, what the hell do you do right now like this?


          It seems not 19, but 26. In 2010, the plant in Ulnovsk received a contract for repair of 22 from the Moscow Region. And now they fly more.
      2. Normal
        Normal 11 October 2013 09: 26
        +8
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Normal, you would read articles, not just headlines, you’re talking nonsense the second day. For you personally!


        No, novels, this is your second day inadequate. Tell me honestly, are you thumping?
        Yesterday you told newcomers to the site about how Normal, in an embrace with Navalny, yelled "we are in power here!" He called Protestants homosexuals (your favorite "topic") for not liking the policy of the GDP, and Natsiks for the fact that there were Russians among them.
        Today, probably with a hangover, you teach me how to read articles yourself, apparently without reading the article.
        For YOU personally! "Most likely, it will not be necessary to restart the production of An-124
        Today's forecasts regarding the real market capacity for this machine do not support the initial optimistic forecasts. "

        Get rid of the novels, get on and if you need a hangover. Just remember; not careful sober leads to a long binge.
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 11 October 2013 10: 45
          +1
          Quote: Normal
          Yesterday you told the newcomers to the site about how Normal, in an embrace with Navalny, yelled “we are in power here!

          So you yourself told me here on the forum about this, or what would your comments look for? I’m not too lazy, but I will lay out what you wrote.
          Quote: Normal
          He called Protestants homosexuals (your favorite "topic") for not liking the policy of the GDP, and Natsiks for the fact that there were Russians among them.

          Oh, you turned it. Gomiks at the rally stood with the Natsiks! Tell me, wasn’t that? Ah, among the Natsiks there were also Russians laughing your Natsiks, who went hand in hand with the bulk, are not the Russians the country is proud of.
          Quote: Normal
          For YOU personally! "Most likely it will not be necessary to restart the production of An-124

          I heard such high-handed experts who yell constantly that we don’t need armata either and it will be unprofitable for new planes.
          Quote: Normal
          . Just remember; not careful sober leads to prolonged binge

          Well you know better.
          1. Normal
            Normal 11 October 2013 17: 35
            +1
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            So you yourself told me here on the forum about this, or what would your comments look for? I’m not too lazy, but I will lay out what you wrote.


            Do not be lazy, novels, and post a quote where I am writing to you that yelled "we are power here!"
            And here is your statement yesterday:
            Normal simply participated in the protests along with Navalny and Russia screamed there without Putin, we are here the power and all that.

            Here is my answer to you;
            Well, what are you, Romanov, "sculpting a hunchback"?
            With whom and what I yelled (and whether I yelled at all) you cannot know; you were not there, and I did not tell you. Do you want to show the newbies of the site my "orange-swamp" essence? So I do not hide that I am a supporter of street protest, a supporter of action, and not a keyboard fighter for justice.
            It's you, Romanov, you whine on the internet "Now, if we were all together, and we'd go out into the streets, then WOULD ALREADY"!
            I do not wait until you TOGETHER ... but I go out myself. For myself. Not for Navalny and not for homosexuals, without the mention of which you cannot live on the site for a day, but for your interests.
            And you, novels, try to follow Claudia, do not be lazy ...
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            Oh, you turned it. Gomiks at the rally stood with the Natsiks! Tell me, wasn’t that?

            Nothing I "turned itit" Your statement:
            I understand that Natsik, coupled with gays and bulk, shouted Russia without Putin. I remember, there are a lot of views in YouTube

            I am not saying that there were no homosexuals. Nationalists were also, but what about? So it was necessary for the authorities to get absolutely everyone that representatives of all groups of society took to the square.
            But that is not the point. The fact is that you, novels, call homosexuals and Natsik ALL who came out to protest against swagger, theft and irresponsibility of power.
            According to your logic, it turns out that if the GDP is a decent person, if against that "vseprosralipolymer", and if he also went out on the street, then a homo-Natsik.
            Watch YouTube less, or you confuse reality and virtuality.
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            I heard experts like that

            Well, you are a demagogue, novels! "For me personally," what did you highlight? The statement of the same "expert" that I singled out for you personally!
            Still, you definitely from the hangover and did not read the article.

            Well, the last.
            It was written to you in the national Russian language in Cyrillic. What? Unclear? Once again, "for an encore!" - FROM - VY - LIFE
            1. Normal
              Normal 11 October 2013 18: 02
              +2
              Yes, I almost forgot
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              .Homosexuals at the rally stood with the Nazis!

              For general development and not to look like a sucker, you need to know the area not on YouTube or on TV.
              On Sakharov, between the LGBT group and the nationalists in a straight line there were about 500 meters.
              I think that in public transport you can be close to a homosexual wassat much more "together"
              1. Botanologist
                Botanologist 11 October 2013 21: 57
                -1
                Quote: Normal
                On Sakharov, between the LGBT group and the nationalists in a straight line there were about 500 meters.


                Do not call, dear. After everyone crowded, meters 50-70. Danger was very close lol
                By the way, which column were you in? There were many scattered groups of "Nazis" who would not sit on the same field with each other ... This is so, about the great cohesion of the Natsiks and their ideas for the unity of the Russian nation hi
                1. Normal
                  Normal 12 October 2013 01: 46
                  +2
                  Quote: Botanologist
                  Do not call, dear. After everyone crowded, meters 50-70. Danger was very close

                  Zvizdit is you, dear. Here is an example of your zvezdezh:
                  On the march, the nationalists mixed with the liberals themselves

                  At mass events, the columns of speakers in an organized manner have dedicated groups of activists who limit the column around the perimeter, do not allow mixing and conflicts with others. The most organized was Antifa's box. They were generally fenced with banners around the perimeter and clearly kept the system and step. Nationalists are less organized, but more mobile, and when needed, they lined up a pig and broke through the crowd to the fence.
                  Quote: Botanologist
                  By the way, which column were you on?

                  I walked on my own and when I entered the place I took it to the right, because there were rainbow colors on the left. The nationalists, who were among the last, also took it into law, and as a result, I ended up right next to them. The crowd began to chant "Fascism will not pass!" And the nationalists - "Russians forward!" When I asked one of the activists why they came here, and did not go to chase the rainbows, they answered that it was impossible, since next to them there was antifa and young communists - we would fight, but there must be order.
                  Quote: Botanologist
                  There were many scattered groups of "Nazis"

                  Famous business; for Russophobes, all Russians are Natsik. You to Alexander Romanov. hi
                  1. Ruslan67
                    Ruslan67 12 October 2013 03: 49
                    +2
                    Quote: Normal
                    I walked on my own

                    Volodya hi hi1 Tell me honestly, you have nothing else to do?
                    Quote: Normal
                    At mass events, the columns of speakers in an organized manner have dedicated groups of activists who limit the column around the perimeter, do not allow mixing and conflicts with others.

                    This is called tactics and protection during mass events
                    Quote: Normal
                    The crowd began to chant "Fascism will not pass!", And the nationalists - "Russians forward!"

                    Well, how do you like them?
                    Quote: Normal
                    Famous business; for Russophobes, all Russians are Natsik. You to Alexander Romanov.

                    I am Russian and you know this, but when these creatures killed an 8-year-old Tajik girl near the market, they were not even Natsiks, but just what are you trying to achieve? slaughterhouse? so it’s not long before request only they will cut not those who can answer or blame but those who turn up arm
            2. Corneli
              Corneli 11 October 2013 18: 53
              +4
              Quote: Normal
              Do not be lazy, novels, and post a quote where I am writing to you that yelled "we are power here!"
              And here is your statement yesterday:

              No offense, but you, as for me in vain appeal to Pan Romanov ... there is such a "zombie" well, or a specific provocateur, to whom the norms of denyuzhka drips) sits ... sho further and do not need. After the discussion about "that the akim is female") Where was he as a "monkey", almost by syllables and on his fingers they pointed out that he was wrong 10 times ... do you think it came? or did he apologize for his delirium? NO!
              Che to go far, yesterday, in the article "Progress in Swedish", pan of novels squealed: "Where is my yesterday's opponent? Come here and let us know." AND? I came, unsubscribed, the day before (in a similar discussion) who had sent Pan Romanov as a "moral monster" far and long (I think he knows why and why, he doesn't know he reads it). And what? he is silent as a partisan! Immediately the mouth shut up ...
              So
              , my advice to you, do not pay attention to Romanov’s attention (even though he’s modern !!! laughing ) This is a paid someone, writing pop comments and hiding in horror (yes, an individual of the neuter genus, you are not mistaken) if "his majesty" is adequately unsubscribed. It doesn’t want to ram, it’s easier to pretend that no one wrote to him ... From such a "modernization" ...
              1. Ruslan67
                Ruslan67 12 October 2013 03: 59
                +1
                Quote: Corneli
                No offense,

                Try what
                Quote: Corneli
                .tam such a "zombie" well, or a specific provocateur, to whom the norms denyuzhka drips) sits ... sho further and do not need.

                Are you ready to answer for the bazaar? I’m not a moder, but for friends I can fall and break not just your snotty rating am
                Quote: Corneli
                Come here, we'll talk. "

                Have you ever talked to me? Lost a lot wassat
                Quote: Corneli
                , my advice to you, do not pay attention to Romanov’s attention (

                Despite the new rules in the next couple of days you will have to go to this site under a different nickname negative you do not like skulls on uniform?
                Quote: Corneli
                It doesn’t want to ram, it’s easier to pretend that no one wrote to him ... From such a "modernization" ...

                Moder cannot always answer because of his status what and I can -Maybe you go where they pay more and more stable? otherwise you’ll die of hunger wassat
                1. Corneli
                  Corneli 12 October 2013 15: 08
                  +2
                  Quote: Ruslan67
                  Are you ready to answer for the bazaar? I’m not a moder, but for friends I can fall and break not just your snotty rating

                  Those who work there are responsible for the "bazaar" high) And in the sense, I will answer for my words without questions!
                  Marshal Negodue) angry You are supposedly a subscription (friend) of Romanov, stand up for the poor fellow? He will write "bullshit", and you will stick for it?
                  Quote: Ruslan67
                  Have you ever talked to me? Lost a lot

                  I have no idea! It is interesting for me to communicate with smart people who can tell me something new, which is interesting to me.
                  Quote: Ruslan67
                  Despite the new rules, in the next couple of days you will have to go to this site under a different nickname. You don’t like skulls on uniform?

                  It's a pity to upset you, but I have no "other nickname", I am quite happy with this one. And if the site will be allowed and there will be an opportunity to comment, I will not ask your permission fellow Minus scares me a little, my "snotty" rating has already been leaked 3 times laughing and Nitsche, as I wrote and I write, what I think, and not what I try to impose "terrible marshals". So, the hunt for you to work for free in the minus, go ahead and with the song, your choice and desire)
                  Quote: Ruslan67
                  Moder can not always answer because of his status what and I can -Maybe you go where they pay more and more stable? and here you’ll die wassat

                  Like an unobtrusive hint that I'm a paid troll? laughing State Department agent? laughing MB is also gay? wassat No, my dear, the wang is not very good for you. I am an ordinary Ukrainian citizen (not a "Little Russian"), with an ordinary job (not on the Internet and not in "cunning" offices), an ordinary family (with a wife, female) and children (not adopted). I write what I want and to whom I want and absolutely on the ball) repeat
                  In general, success in your "intercession" and punishment of the offenders of the "poor marshals". soldier
                  The current "wang" is smaller, it does not come out very ...
            3. Ruslan67
              Ruslan67 12 October 2013 04: 57
              +1
              Quote: Normal
              Here is my answer to you;
              Well, what are you, Romanov, "sculpting a hunchback"?

              Vova tongue You know, I can sometimes manifest love if I haven’t touched you for a long time, it’s not because there is nothing to say request but because it was interesting to see how far you go what You recall how a year ago you out of the blue with an easy provocation figured out those who are against you? and used the chs button? and how many stars in the hothouse conditions threw yourself on the shoulder strap? And when you got a rating so that you don’t be thrown off, how did you get it out and start broadcasting in the past? negative Most likely the FSO is a former nine. They offended the little one and did not allow them to serve until retirement? Sorry request
              Quote: Normal
              By your logic, it turns out that if for GDP then a decent person, if against

              And what are the options? So you can’t rearrange those weaned from the feeder to Shanghai with cancer tongue
              Quote: Normal
              Watch YouTube less, or you confuse reality and virtuality.

              Less go to the swamp - you look at the shaved skull with a club from my colleagues bully
              1. Normal
                Normal 12 October 2013 15: 59
                +1
                Well, Ruslan, let's talk? Not in the sense of something common between us, but in the sense of clarifying the relationship. It would be possible in PM, but it is too late; you took too much on yourself publicly. On the topic, I will not talk to you - swam. Your moderator friends will delete my posts (didn’t forget?) As they do not correspond to the topic of discussion, and you will be courageous. It's not gonna go.

                There are options?
                1. Ruslan67
                  Ruslan67 12 October 2013 21: 24
                  +2
                  Quote: Normal
                  There are options?

                  Easy! If you still do not understand then I will explain hi Oddly enough, you and I are not enemies in the literal sense of the word. We look in the same direction but in a different way: we have different methods and approaches. This is not the topic of the article, but since it happened request Let me remind you of your conversation about your participation in the rallies. Then you said that you made the president and the prime minister fly helicopters instead of blocking the tracks. You see this as a small victory good I am an office plankton inflating financial bubbles and the service staff who feeds them polishes their faces with glamorous lapdogs puts them on a presentation and gives an opportunity after a busy day wassat have fun in a nightclub in the center of the capital And what have you achieved? made it easy wassat a life ? Or have they raised industry? Maybe the president of a nuclear superpower with a thousand-year history should drive as he needs, but there simply shouldn’t be any of these credit cars in the center of the capital? Romanov and I are more straightforward, but your position as a slave gives away the soul of liberalism request
                  Quote: Normal
                  Your moderator friends will delete my posts

                  they also deleted mine counting them as a flood
                  Quote: Normal
                  and you will be idle.

                  Well, you also learned pretty well from this and you do it not only with pleasure but also quite competently. And it happened with me too bully
                  Quote: Normal
                  you took too much on yourself publicly.

                  I never refused my words and deeds and you know it
                  Quote: Normal
                  It would be possible in PM, but it is too late;

                  You know, I'm always ready good
                2. Ruslan67
                  Ruslan67 12 October 2013 21: 31
                  +2
                  Quote: Normal
                  There are options?

                  By the way, I offered you, But then you refused request I’ll refuse now because I admit - then this proposal was not very correct. Let's compare in weight categories and if by that moment there remains a desire we will return to this issue. hi Do you have any suggestions?
      3. VAF
        VAF 11 October 2013 11: 40
        +5
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Volga-Dnepr Airlines planned to become the first customer of this aircraft, having bought the first 17 boards.


        Sanya, hi! But...planned, This does not mean..bought... wink:

        Realistically need to look at things .... realistically wassat

        And now, the latest facts:

        A / c AirBridgeCargo (ABC), the largest Russian scheduled air cargo carrier, part of the Volga-Dnepr group of companies - September 29, 2013 received the 4th (regular wink ) Boeing 747-8F.
        The transfer ceremony took place at the Boeing Corporation’s factory in Everett.



        The aircraft will make its first flight on the route Chicago - Amsterdam - Sheremetyevo and will continue to be operated on the current a / k route network connecting Europe, Asia and the United States through a cargo hub in Moscow.
        With the receipt of the fourth new-generation cargo aircraft, AirBridge Cargo continues to follow a long-term strategy to improve product quality.
        The new Boeing 747-8F features lower noise levels, lower fuel consumption, and significantly reduced CO2 emissions.
        “A young, efficient and environmentally friendly fleet plays an important role in improving the quality of the product that we provide to our customers. It also gives AirBridgeCargo competitive advantages that will help us achieve stable and sustainable development and maintain our position in the market, "said Denis Ilyin, Executive President of ABC. wink

        Now the air fleet of a / c consists of 12 cargo Boeing 747s, of which five are Boeing 747-400ERF, three Boeing 747-400F and four Boeing 747-8F.
        bully
        1. VAF
          VAF 11 October 2013 12: 15
          +7
          Quote: vaf
          planned, it doesn’t mean .. bought


          And minus then belay After all, it’s not me who bought Bobik, but Volga-Dnepr wassat instead of the An-124's wink
          And. I'll tell you a secret ... and will buy more: bully

          Or my comment strongly "hits" the positions .... "urya unas everything is fine" fellow wink
          So I'll also ... "add": drinks, so to speak .. for completeness: wassat

          Boeing Corporation September 30, 2013 UTair Aviation JSC first Boeing 737-800NG from previously ordered 40 aircraft it's like. wassat


          The airline signed a firm contract for 40 aircraft two years ago at the Le Bourget air show.
          737 will be available in 800NG and 900NG versions.
          The value of the contract is estimated at $ 3,8 billion in catalog prices. request

          And "where's our .. everything": belay, well, in the sense of "super-duper" request, right .... there is .. .. ..: wassat

          1. Scoun
            Scoun 11 October 2013 13: 50
            +2
            Quote: vaf
            After all, it was not I who bought Bobik, but the Volga-Dnepr, instead of the An-124's

            Good day, Sergey !!!
            Sergei, regarding the "probable" purchase of the An-124 - that's just the point while Russia and Ukraine act like a swan and a pike, the very discussion of buying an aircraft is empty talk.
            A specific and specific conversation about the acquisition of an aircraft can only be discussed when everything is clear with the supplier .... and here ... the aircraft is interesting but who is it and when .. the seventh water on jelly ....
            If the Russian Federation engages in its production, then something will move and if I am not mistaken, it has gained some popularity after the military operation in Mali. drinks
          2. Russ69
            Russ69 11 October 2013 16: 16
            0
            Quote: vaf
            And minus, for what. After all, it was not I who bought Bobik, but Volga-Dnepr, instead of An-124's

            In order to buy, you need to be produced ... In the meantime, alas.
            "Volga-Dnepr" about An-124, which is no longer invented, up to the assembly in Germany, there was talk.

            Well, the picture from the flood is clearly not the topic ...
            1. avt
              avt 11 October 2013 17: 02
              +1
              Quote: Russ69
              In order to buy, you need to produce them ...

              747 in the cargo version 124mu is not a competitor and vice versa, standard international containers carry bobiks which are not particularly loaded into the ramp. It should be said more quickly that the IL-96 is in the cargo version in flight.
        2. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 11 October 2013 12: 51
          0
          Quote: vaf
          Sanya, hi! But ... planned, it does not mean .. bought

          Hello, Sergey! Do not plan here, but there’s nothing to buy request
          1. Normal
            Normal 11 October 2013 16: 59
            +3
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            Do not plan here, but there’s nothing to buy

            And "washed" laughing veteran Alexander Romanov pretending not to lose, but won this round, proudly retired ....
            Quote: Avenger711
            The duper, as you put it, quite flies to himself

            For such money and so much time, he would not fly. He is a plane and its function is to fly, just to have this duper take off a lot of things left on earth.
            Quote: Avenger711
            and already raped An-148.

            ?? belay belay belay
            1. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 12 October 2013 05: 06
              -2
              Quote: Normal

              And Alexander Romanov, "washed" laughing by the veteran, pretending that he did not lose, but won this round, proudly left ...

              Do not betray your desires for validity, it has never been that Serega washed me, not in those relations. But he left, so there are things, even your comments didn’t even have time to answer you.
    2. Avenger711
      Avenger711 11 October 2013 15: 45
      -4
      Puper, as you put it, flies to himself and has already raped the An-148.
  6. 77bor1973
    77bor1973 11 October 2013 07: 19
    +1
    It is necessary to produce both An-70 and An-124 in the same place - in the same Ulyanovsk and there will be less expenses.
  7. Sunjar
    Sunjar 11 October 2013 07: 23
    +6
    How the blankets were jammed with a twitch on themselves, and on both sides. With all due respect to the Ukrainian people, it was generally not worth building factories there, and in other union republics too. The USSR would concentrate all industry on the territory of the RSFSR (with the exception of shipyards), and all the former Soviet republics would suck their paws. I consider the decision made to build everything and in all republics a mistake. Just then they could not even imagine that someone would decide to secede.
    1. Deniska
      Deniska 11 October 2013 10: 43
      +1
      And then the USSR could not do so (((

      Who was at the helm? :

      Stalin Joseph Vissarionovich (April 3, 1922 - March 5, 1953) GEORGIAN
      Khrushchev Nikita Sergeevich (actually March 14, formally September 7, 1953 - October 14, 1964) UKRAINIAN
      Brezhnev Leonid Ilyich (October 14, 1964 - November 10, 1982) [152] UKRAINIAN
      Andropov Yuri Vladimirovich (November 12, 1982 - February 9, 1984) [153] Rumors are circulating about the Greek, Jewish, Cossack or North Caucasian descent of Andropov’s parents. In all directories, Andropov’s nationality is designated as “Russian”.
      Chernenko Konstantin Ustinovich (February 13, 1984 - March 10, 1985) [154] You can say that it’s not right
      Gorbachev Mikhail Sergeevich (March 11, 1985 - August 24, 1991) [155] ABOUT THE LABELED BY YOURSELF ALL REMEMBER
      1. T80UM1
        T80UM1 11 October 2013 13: 01
        +3
        Well, I wouldn’t roll a barrel to Stalin, if only because of a magnet, Rostselmash, gas, ZIL, ChTZ, STZ and many other nishtyaks for the RSFSR. who only dreamed of the rest
      2. general
        general 11 October 2013 14: 05
        +4
        Everything converges first Russian - Gorbachev
        and ditched the cause of the multinational family of nations.
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 11 October 2013 14: 36
          +2
          Quote: chung
          Everything converges first Russian - Gorbachev

          I would not call the Russian Man of the World so unfounded. wassat
      3. Gecko
        Gecko 11 October 2013 14: 25
        0
        Andropov - JEWISH
        Chernenko - UKRAINIAN
        Gorbachev - mother of UKRAINE
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 11 October 2013 14: 39
          +3
          Quote: gecko
          Gorbachev - mother of UKRAINE

          And the wife is Gusskaya. Where they themselves did not crawl, they planted a wife. They have developed this tactic since biblical times.
          1. REZMovec
            REZMovec 11 October 2013 16: 40
            +2
            Raisa Maksimovna - a baptized Tatar.
        2. REZMovec
          REZMovec 11 October 2013 16: 39
          0
          "Gorbachev is the mother of a UKRAINIAN", and dad is a lawyer ???
      4. Avenger711
        Avenger711 11 October 2013 15: 51
        -2
        Just Stalin did not overflow resources from the RSFSR. He understood who Russia was standing on.
      5. REZMovec
        REZMovec 11 October 2013 16: 38
        +2
        Khrushchev - Russian, Brezhnev - Russian, Andropov - ???, Chernenko - did not rule, Humpbacked - Russian prodanets. Learn materiel and Russian language, Deniska!
  8. EGORKA
    EGORKA 11 October 2013 07: 26
    +1
    I think 99% of all this blah blah blah, the only thing that is really possible and we need to modernize the An-124 ourselves, the rest will take a lot of money and time, which is not available now.
  9. andrey903
    andrey903 11 October 2013 08: 10
    +3
    Armenian and name the su-70
  10. vvpll
    vvpll 11 October 2013 08: 13
    +5
    Get down to business, finally, stop waiting for the Ukrainian side to sober up, this will not happen until the local corrupt elite is in power there. All that Ukraine is capable of in these matters is to shake off the mighty backlog left by the USSR. Moreover, solely in spite of the "damned katsap and Muscovites" - respected patriots of "Independent" - do not deny this fact, please.

    Your unsaleable elite has already cheated on the mighty backlog of the USSR in the form of Tupalev and Ilyushin.
    Now An decided to take on.
    1. Avenger711
      Avenger711 11 October 2013 08: 44
      0
      Again, an old song about how bad it is in Russia?
    2. Deniska
      Deniska 11 October 2013 10: 27
      +4
      Duck guys, why aren’t you releasing it yourself ??, since they are so independent and Russia only bothers you.
      1. In the book
        In the book 11 October 2013 12: 25
        0
        Those who held power would have stolen less, they would have let them out long ago.
        Google how Ukrainian Minister Boyko bought oil rigs.
    3. Genry
      Genry 11 October 2013 11: 52
      +3
      Quote: vvpll
      Your unsaleable elite has already cheated on the mighty backlog of the USSR in the form of Tupalev and Ilyushin.
      Now An decided to take on.

      And what does Russia have to do with the cheating of Ukrainian An?
      And the whole country, wholesale, the Ukrainian "elite" secretly sells, even does not allow a referendum to be held.
  11. Prapor Afonya
    Prapor Afonya 11 October 2013 08: 48
    +2
    The cost of restarting production is estimated at 120-150 billion rubles. and it's worth it, this plane has shown its right to life, and it is needed in this life!
  12. Prapor Afonya
    Prapor Afonya 11 October 2013 08: 52
    +3
    Quote: vvpll
    Get down to business, finally, stop waiting for the Ukrainian side to sober up, this will not happen until the local corrupt elite is in power there. All that Ukraine is capable of in these matters is to shake off the mighty backlog left by the USSR. Moreover, solely in spite of the "damned katsap and Muscovites" - respected patriots of "Independent" - do not deny this fact, please.

    Your unsaleable elite has already cheated on the mighty backlog of the USSR in the form of Tupalev and Ilyushin.
    Now An decided to take on.

    I do not deny that our elite is corrupt, but yours is for podliz the west, has long destroyed everything, and on the command "face" from the west, is generally ready to shoot its own people !!!
  13. Nickanor
    Nickanor 11 October 2013 09: 02
    +3
    Here it begs straightforward: (c) And they will not buy - turn off the gas)))
    This is not about a specific case, but the situation as a whole. Nevertheless, everything is true wink
  14. chunga-changa
    chunga-changa 11 October 2013 09: 06
    +2
    It turns out ridiculously, but such a plane cannot be poached.
  15. slavik_gross
    slavik_gross 11 October 2013 09: 41
    +1
    I want, as a small child, Ukraine to be part of Russia, now let the gentlemen of politics ... We are one people !!! Not for nothing was Kievan Rus called before !!! And let the western part p ... t in Euro ...
  16. Turkestan
    Turkestan 11 October 2013 09: 47
    +3
    What a pity that because of politicians it is impossible to create aviation concerns of Tupolev Antonov Yakovlev Ilyushin. After all, they have a new designed aviation technology. There are even experienced flying samples. As for Antonov’s company, it has long been in the pen. The only thing it does is successfully extends the resources of old aircraft.
  17. pahom54
    pahom54 11 October 2013 10: 11
    +3
    I quote: ... "While not having formal rights to the An-124 and An-70, Russia, however, has all the necessary technological and design documentation for these machines, and is not bound by any obligations prohibiting the reproduction of the corresponding solutions. Further delays in combination with unfriendly behavior of Kiev on other issues may lead to the fact that Moscow will go to the "Chinese version" of solving the problem .... "
    Well, who's stopping ??? In essence, a huge part of the SOVIET (i.e. USSR) industry took part in the creation of ANs, and Russia is the successor of the USSR. All these gimmicks of the Ukrainian government and their prostitutional attacks - it’s possible to fuck .. er .. really and go the Chinese way, naming the planes as you like. The PRC sculpts everything no matter what it gets, and nothing ... We can do the same thing ourselves, moreover, POSSESSING ALL THE REQUIRED TECHNOLOGICAL DOCUMENTATION !!!
    The situation is just like with the Black Sea Fleet - and it’s impossible for Russia, and this ... That is, it’s not winter, I’m ducking it ... It’s just necessary to analyze and weigh the need for these planes (and they are clear, necessary), the amount of arbitrariness, and do build them, and let them fly ... Ruslans, with our vast territories, oh how necessary, and the AN-70 is needed in Aktika, in the North, in Siberia ... And there’s nothing to look back at Ukraine, it’s time for Russia for its own RESPONSES AND ACTIONS RESPOND ONLY BEFORE YOURSELF, NOT BEFORE YOURSELF, do not understand anyone trying to dictate their conditions to us ...
    Build, gentlemen, designers, engineers, aircraft builders, and let the Government, headed by DAM, look for money for this project, and let Putin close the loopholes for cutting the money found and allocated. Have a good trip!
  18. Deniska
    Deniska 11 October 2013 10: 26
    0
    Quote: kris
    What kind of regular anti-Ukrainian are you ser?
    how many nations can you push your foreheads together?
    hucksters do not share the loot, and people suffer.
    such libel go only to the benefit of Bendera from the West!
    and no one thinks about ordinary Russian people in Ukraine.
    and many have relatives on this forum. Can we think about them?
    those who seized power no matter how grandmas to rub, that with Russia, that with the EU.

    PS: the number of rams on our forum who are "being" led to such libels is very disappointing.


    But doesn’t the people choose hucksters who don’t share the loot?
    1. REZMovec
      REZMovec 11 October 2013 16: 46
      +2
      "What to consider as gossips, to work, it is not better to turn to yourself, godfather ..." (C)
  19. michajlo
    michajlo 11 October 2013 10: 54
    +2
    Quote: Deniska
    Quote: kris
    ... and no one thinks about ordinary Russian people in Ukraine.
    and many have relatives on this forum. Can we think about them?
    those who seized power no matter how grandmas to rub, that with Russia, that with the EU.

    PS: the number of rams on our forum who are "being" led to such libels is very disappointing.


    But doesn’t the people choose hucksters who don’t share the loot?


    Hello dear Denis!

    I do not agree with you, sorry. hi

    Let me ask you:
    - And in what country of the post-USSR, someone bothered yours "and before ... we ask the people"!
  20. Akim
    Akim 11 October 2013 11: 05
    +5
    Today "lovers" are happy. So far, there are already 5 topics related to Ukraine. Moreover, such a picture Malevich would have envied the black colors. What will change, apart from political resentment, from the signing of the agreement? Antonov did not agree. Well, that's the right of "Antonov". You can do it yourself - please. Call "Ruslan" "Dima" and forward. The Bison will be castled in exchange for Ruslan. Just teach that there are no Russian components in the Feodosia Bison / Bison. The article says "We can do it ourselves, because Ukraine is creeping into Europe so much," but the author does not shy away from suggesting buying engines from Motor Sich. This is another scarecrow. For ten years such bawlers have been shouting: Ukraine is striving for NATO, figs we will be friends with it in the military-industrial complex. As a result, the A400M minibus entered the series, Ukraine has not yet joined NATO, but now a new excuse for patriot-minded people is the Association. I can't really understand why this is bad, in economic terms, for Russia, than the current country. Of course, they would like to draw Ukraine into the vehicle. Even if Ukraine did not intend to sign this agreement, there would still be such an information attack. You are actively cooperating with other countries, even with EU members (which Ukraine will not be). Just to smell.
    1. T80UM1
      T80UM1 11 October 2013 13: 04
      +6
      Akim and you did not know that we all owe Russia to the grave of life ...
      1. Akim
        Akim 11 October 2013 13: 14
        +2
        Quote: T80UM1
        that we all owe Russia to the grave of life

        As my platoon commander said: All I have to do is forgive. Can we argue against nationwide propaganda, where only Russia won the Second World War.
        1. cherkas.oe
          cherkas.oe 11 October 2013 16: 38
          +1
          Quote: Akim
          propaganda, where only Russia won the Second World War.

          And where have you read this, "tanned" you are ours?
          1. Akim
            Akim 11 October 2013 19: 00
            +2
            Quote: cherkas.oe
            And where did you read that?

            Putin said at the parade on May 9, 12.
        2. The comment was deleted.
          1. Akim
            Akim 11 October 2013 19: 02
            0
            Quote: DJEIN8
            you have chosen the photo very correctly ... completely in line with yours
            content

            No need to poke, you can use your finger and eyes to get into F ... I chose a photo of my namesake and do not need racism here.
          2. The comment was deleted.
    2. saturn.mmm
      saturn.mmm 11 October 2013 21: 53
      +3
      Quote: Akim
      You are actively cooperating with other countries, even with EU members (which Ukraine will not be). Just to poke.

      Rosatom bought a small factory in the Czech Republic and there are no problems, the French rivet UDC "Mistral" and there are no problems, so where do the problems come from with ANs? The question is clearly on the political plane, it is a pity that every moment we are giving way to amers positions in aircraft construction, just some kind of conspiracy.
    3. Botanologist
      Botanologist 11 October 2013 22: 08
      0
      Quote: Akim
      I can’t understand point-blank why this is bad, economically for Russia, than the current camp.


      Visa regime between Russia and Ukraine.
      The flow of goods from Ukraine, going past the EU-Russia barrier tariffs.
      Sales control of TOTAL from Ukraine to Russia. For example, Motor Sich products. And the decision on sales will not be made in Kiev. And not in Zaporozhye, of course. In Brussels. Do not believe me - read the text of the Act and its annexes.
      Many other things that do not please us at all. Are you happy? Then in the EU and do not look at Russia.
      1. Kars
        Kars 11 October 2013 22: 17
        +5
        Quote: Botanologist
        Do not believe me - read the text of the Act and its annexes.

        Give a quote? Well, that would not be unfounded.
        Quote: Botanologist
        Visa regime between Russia and Ukraine.

        By the way, not bad, less from the Russian Federation and through all Caucasians will go to Ukraine.
        1. Botanologist
          Botanologist 11 October 2013 23: 28
          +1
          Quote: Kars
          Give a quote? Well, that would not be unfounded.


          the text is at work, but if from memory - in disputes between an EU country and Ukraine, the final decision is made in accordance with the provisions and rules of the EU, which is a mandatory rule for Ukraine.
          I translate into Russian: what we say, then you will do.

          Quote: Kars
          By the way, not bad, less from the Russian Federation and through all Caucasians will go to Ukraine.


          They get to Europe without any problems. Now you can fix them even at the border, and after the association your cops can’t even check your documents - EU citizen, go to the fix.
          1. Kars
            Kars 12 October 2013 00: 08
            +6
            Quote: Botanologist
            text at work

            I'll wait.
            Quote: Botanologist
            in disputes between an EU country and Ukraine, the final decision is made in accordance with the provisions and rules of the EU

            Are they bad (rules and applications)? And tell me where in the disputes between the EU country and Ukraine is Russia? And Ukraine selling the same Russia well, for example aircraft engines? Which EU country and on what basis will create a dispute on this issue? Except for the case of the embargo on the Russian Federation UN for the sale of aircraft engines?
            Quote: Botanologist
            I translate into Russian: what we say, then you will do.

            You somehow translate poorly, unconvincingly. And in disputes with the Russian Federation there are no rules at all.
            Quote: Botanologist
            They get to Europe without any problems.

            Well, without any problems, you turned down. But your Chechens easily get into Ukraine.
            Quote: Botanologist
            and after the association your cops won't even be able to check your documents - EU citizen, go to the fix.

            who is a citizen of the EU? And where is the provision that the European (who by the way are Chechens and all sorts of others in Ukraine are not particularly torn) can not ask for documents legally? Or do you think it will be written on the forehead of a European?
            Campaign you live in some sort of an illusory world.
            1. Botanologist
              Botanologist 12 October 2013 21: 42
              -1
              Quote: Kars
              Are they bad (rules and applications)? And Ukraine’s sale of the same Russia, for example, aircraft engines? Which EU country and on what basis will create a dispute on this issue?


              Yes, an elementary dispute. Ukraine strive for EU standards? Yes. Therefore, the sale procedure itself will go only through an EU tender. Do you know what the EU tender is? I personally know. Ukraine will never pass it if at least one side is interested in its supply of engines. That's all your good rules. We will buy your engines - no one will sell you.

              Quote: Kars
              Campaign you live in some sort of an illusory world.


              I worked with the EU for 5 years, so my illusions are somewhat material. How many years have you worked in commissions (or with trade commissioners) of the EU? Maybe you know something that I don’t know?
              1. Kars
                Kars 12 October 2013 21: 47
                +2
                Quote: Botanologist
                Therefore, the sale procedure itself will go only through an EU tender.

                Tender FOR SALE? Non-state property. WHAT IS A CAP? SALE GOODS))
                Quote: Botanologist
                Do you know what the EU tender is? I personally know

                tell me who this is announcing a tender for sale.)) Since you are not an expert on this procedure? Ukraine is putting up 100 aircraft engines for sale, how would you not buy their RF without offering the best conditions? that is, buy it yourself.
                Quote: Botanologist
                That's all your good rules.

                ))))))
                Quote: Botanologist
                I have been working with the EU for 5 years

                Janitor?
                Quote: Botanologist
                Maybe you know something that I don’t know?

                about your illusory - I don’t know anything.

                P.S.A little mistake was made not by Ukraine but OJSC Motor Sich
          2. Akim
            Akim 12 October 2013 06: 24
            +2
            Quote: Botanologist
            in disputes between an EU country and Ukraine, the final decision is made in accordance with the provisions and rules of the EU

            Do not cross over. Yes, in disputes between EU countries and Ukraine those. European standards are taken as a basis. What’s wrong with the vehicle now? Products from Ukraine must comply with the approved standards. But this does not mean that in the Asian direction, these norms are the same.
            1. michajlo
              michajlo 12 October 2013 14: 33
              +1
              Quote: Akim
              Quote: Botanologist
              in disputes between an EU country and Ukraine, the final decision is made in accordance with the provisions and rules of the EU

              Do not cross over. Yes, in disputes between EU countries and Ukraine ie European standards are taken as a basis. What’s wrong with the vehicle now? Products from Ukraine must comply with the approved standards. But this does not mean that in the Asian direction, these norms are the same.

              Hello dear Kim!
              May I contact you?

              And why do you think that the highly demanding Soviet GOST need to change to EN standards and other "* eroviny" with foreign names such as ISO?

              Where did you and many others come from (perhaps you are past the work of the department of quality, standardization, conformity testing PRODUCTS of your plant / prototype), you took that Western NORMS and STANDARDS are at least somewhat better than the ADVANCED old man GOST and the level of 70-80 years?

              Again, I see everywhere in the ruins of the post-USSR, many times repeated worship of Western "feces" with foreign names ?!

              Where does this in the open spaces of the post-USSR come from and is this servility to the “cunning * opy West” and all the western “* Aries” wrapped in a beautiful wrapper?
              Do not be offended by directness, but many of you, for many decades, see the same symptoms of a systemic disease, one of them is called PSORIASIS ...

              For example, in the former Czechoslovakia / Czechoslovakia (after the Czechoslovak Republic after 1989 and after the partition of the Czech Republic and Slovakia) decades of social development, CSN norms and standards were in effect, / Czechoslovak norms prevailed with our native GOST.
              Well, after 1989 then came the "advanced WESTERN" STN EN / Slovak technical standards_euro norms ...
              Where ALL the requirements are MUCH BELOW than in the old Czechoslovak GOST-ah / CSN.

              Continuation # 2 >>>
              1. michajlo
                michajlo 12 October 2013 14: 37
                +2
                Continuation No.2
                And “according to the level of requirements” and the rigidity of inspections and the “product conformity test protocol” itself, with our GOST, from all Western GOSTs, only their military “GOST” (MIL) and something for Medical products (BUT not drugs ) ...

                For example, in Belarus alone, I thank "the Soviet Union GOST" was preserved and developed by the Soviet Union and the thrifty attitude to ALL Soviet. Therefore, the quality of products and food in Belarus, about today remains VERY HIGH!
                Belorussian butter is cow’s milk butter
                And not "A bunch of elements of the periodic table", sausage from Minsk - remains a sausage and so everything else. To date, products “from the dictator Lukashenko” are by their nature the CLEANEST and ENVIRONMENTAL in all of Eurasia and probably all over the world !!! smile good

                And many, including here on the VO website, think, speak and write that “their father’s heading” is supposed to be “stupid and arrogant collective farm chairman” ?! sad

                Last year, I myself did some translations into Russian and Ukrainian for Slovak manufacturers and sellers who went to sell Western products to Ukraine and the TS.
                And they were sent to me from one of the Slovak branches of the former Metrology, which, as it turned out later, has been cooperating with the State Standard in Minsk for 8 years regarding mutual certification of products (these from Piestany are engaged in industrial products and electrical engineering).
                And as little Slovakia turned out, already from 2011 it has been preparing for trade with the countries of the CU, where for the time being, LET GET GOD, so that the Soviet GOST remains and not the Western "weak and deliberately understated standards and their paper certificates." good

                Goodbye, Michael. hi
              2. Akim
                Akim 12 October 2013 15: 19
                +2
                Quote: michajlo
                And why do you think that the highly demanding Soviet GOST should be changed to EN standards and other "* erovins" with other people's names like ISO

                Soviet GOST is better, but tell me, who now lives with Soviet GOST? Now, traders do not reckon with anything, and they drive bullshit without any moral standards.
            2. Botanologist
              Botanologist 12 October 2013 21: 47
              0
              Quote: Akim
              Products from Ukraine must comply with the approved standards.


              You don’t even understand what the EU is. This, in addition to norms, is also a PROCEDURE. Do you want to trade tomatoes with Russia (or someone else?) You will be assigned the quality, prices, labor standards, social status of workers, emission standards for trucks carrying tomatoes, delivery time, etc. Do not match - gently send experts who remake your tomato factory in your opinion. Five years. For your money. Then you quietly go broke. Well, the fix is ​​with you, this is the market - they will tell you so.
              1. Akim
                Akim 12 October 2013 22: 04
                0
                Quote: Botanologist
                Do you want to trade tomatoes with Russia (or someone else?) You will be assigned the quality, prices, labor standards, social status of workers, emission standards for trucks that bring tomatoes, delivery time, etc.

                Who trades from Europe to Russia on similar terms? Similar procedures are introduced only within the EU and then for enterprises. Fresh example. Slovakia did not have time to invest in new standards for chicken eggs. The ban on sales within the EU lay only on those enterprises that did not invest in the norms. However, no one bothers them to sell them to other countries, or within the country, which they do.
      2. Akim
        Akim 12 October 2013 06: 28
        +2
        Quote: Botanologist
        Visa regime between Russia and Ukraine.

        If there is a visa regime, then this is only from Putin’s whim. With the EU itself, you are seeking a visa-free regime. That's interesting. Serbia, Macedonia is also Europe, but for some reason Russia has a visa-free regime with it?
  21. In the book
    In the book 11 October 2013 12: 22
    +7
    Quote: mirag2
    You know, I think that Ukrainian officials are abnormally emotional. In general, at the state level, I think emotions are unacceptable.

    I dare you to recall the behavior of your own officials, for example, Onishchenko.
    Where are the results of the Roshen confectionery investigation?
    Without results, his statement, I'm sorry, an ordinary chatter, meaningless. It only worsens the already, not very good-neighborly relations.
  22. aud13
    aud13 11 October 2013 12: 42
    +1
    Too many emotions in relations with Ukraine.
    I think that it is more practical to approach many issues, including this one.
    Let the lawyers look at this question:
    1. We do not have the right to try to negotiate and redeem the right to build aircraft. This would be beneficial to everyone, including Ukrainians.
    2. Do not sell copyrights - make another more modern aircraft with better performance on our engines. In this case, Ukrainians will not only receive funds for copyrights, but the prospect of manufacturing Motor Sich engines will disappear - that is, they will lose the future market.
    Well, if we have the right to build aircraft data, then there is nothing to procrastinate - take and do.
    1. REZMovec
      REZMovec 11 October 2013 16: 50
      +2
      There is nothing and no one to do, buy motors from Amers - there are none of your own!
  23. PureGUN
    PureGUN 11 October 2013 12: 48
    0
    It's time.
  24. BARIN
    BARIN 11 October 2013 12: 58
    +4
    Hello. I say, "Take the plane." We are all falling apart! Do not mess with our hucksters. We have interesting planes, but no one in the west needs them! I want him to live! Even if it's not here ... you can't cook porridge with "our" politicians.
    1. REZMovec
      REZMovec 11 October 2013 16: 54
      +2
      In nickname "I" replace with "A" and everything will fall into place.
      The master was found: “I say:“ Take the plane. ”Who are you?
      1. BARIN
        BARIN 11 October 2013 16: 56
        +1
        I am the one who lives in the country of Ukraine and who knows what is happening here not from the press but from personal experience.
        1. REZMovec
          REZMovec 11 October 2013 20: 33
          +1
          I also live there, so what? I also know what does not come from the newspapers and the TV box. And so you have the right: "I say," Take the plane "???
  25. avg
    avg 11 October 2013 13: 09
    +1
    The most interesting thing is that Ukraine has been doing this for a long time, and it does not bother at all which of the former Allied design bureaus belongs to one or another development. Moreover, with particular pleasure, Ukrainians sell Russian technology to the Chinese.
    1. Akim
      Akim 11 October 2013 13: 18
      +2
      Quote: avg
      Moreover, with particular pleasure, Ukrainians sell Russian technology to the Chinese.

      How can Ukraine trade Russian technologies. We do not have such an omnipotent SBU as Steise in the GDR. Soviet - yes. Well, all the CIS countries are not without sin.
      1. avg
        avg 11 October 2013 13: 43
        +5
        So I'm wondering - how can it? I hope it is clear who owns the rights to the Su-33 sold to China. Or, for example, for the same China, the documentation for the Zubrs belonging to the St. Petersburg Almaz Design Bureau is being transferred. Or maybe you've heard about radars and air defense systems for the Americans?
        1. Akim
          Akim 11 October 2013 13: 53
          +2
          Quote: avg
          Or maybe you have heard about radars and air defense systems for Americans have heard?

          I have not heard about this. In general, I like the logic in the gap IS MY AND GENERAL. I wrote, you can release on your own, God help you. Everything else is propaganda. Even the T-10K from which the Chinese borrowed wing mechanization, but the original plane itself and probably the documents were sold by your bureaucrats, which is produced in China under the name J-11. Or is it unpleasant or not accepted to remember?
          1. avg
            avg 11 October 2013 14: 19
            +1
            Well, yes, like "k.zel himself", this is of course an argument.
            What about Russian money invested in the development of the An-70 ?.
            Yes, about MY and GENERAL. I gave you examples of ownership of the Russian design bureaus.
            Moreover, it is Russia that is the successor of the USSR with all the ensuing consequences.
            1. Akim
              Akim 11 October 2013 15: 11
              +4
              Quote: avg
              Russia is the successor of the USSR

              Already got this garbage and the principle of REPRESSION! Russia to the USSR as to Kiev crustaceans. In addition to debts, Russia received impressive assets. Why is this not mentioned? As for the money for the An-70. Invested, so let's release, and not invent political crap. Ukraine without the consent of Russia cannot produce it for export, and all sorts of MedvePuty are inflated. Personal resentment is transferred to society. We also have such political parties,
              1. avg
                avg 11 October 2013 15: 28
                +2
                I don’t know how the crustaceans to Kiev, obviously, this is more familiar to you, but in terms of GDP, Russia has reached the level of the RSFSR in 1989. I wish Ukraine to reach the Ukrainian SSR.
                As for succession, however much you would like it NOW, this is an internationally recognized fact.
                Yes, and you so easily dismiss debts, because not from yours, but from my taxes, they were paid.
                1. Akim
                  Akim 11 October 2013 15: 40
                  +2
                  Quote: avg
                  because not from yours, but from my taxes they were paid.

                  Statistics wave all much. Beautiful words like taxes can be rushed in the USA or in Sweden, where they are actually paid. Well, of course, if you are not an honest co-owner, of some large factory. And why do not you remember the technical default of Russia? After all, it was he who helped begin to pay off external debt. When they gave papers like bonds, instead of money to foreigners.
                  So in everything. Take one side and do not talk about the second.
                  1. avg
                    avg 11 October 2013 18: 34
                    0
                    They don't wave statistics, they argue. All other arguments are bullshit. How much did you earn on GKO, incl. and foreigners - "so mama do not cry." Perhaps the only one who suffered was Credit Suisse First Boston, and that one was more likely for political reasons. As for taxes, I pay them, just like in the USA, or Sweden, or in many other countries. And for you, as I understand it, this is very surprising.wink
                    1. Akim
                      Akim 11 October 2013 19: 06
                      +1
                      Quote: avg
                      And for you, as I understand it, this is very surprising

                      For me it is not surprising, but I am not in that number. I know only from my 13% income that the government will not become fatter.
    2. REZMovec
      REZMovec 11 October 2013 16: 55
      +1
      Where does Ukraine come from with Russian technology? Rave? Go to the doctor. The RF itself is surrendering everything to the Chinese.
      1. avg
        avg 11 October 2013 18: 39
        -1
        Where does Ukraine come from with Russian technology?

        Stealing ...
  26. morpogr
    morpogr 11 October 2013 13: 14
    +1
    All workers and engineers to be taken to Russia to give citizenship, and the opportunity to build AN planes in Russia, albeit under a different name.
    1. Akim
      Akim 11 October 2013 13: 20
      +4
      Quote: morpogr
      All workers and engineers taken to Russia to give citizenship,

      Already once on a similar campaign here. Everyone is so eager to accept Russian citizenship. All who wanted to leave.
      1. BARIN
        BARIN 11 October 2013 13: 28
        +6
        the one who told you that I want to take Russian citizenship? I want the plane to be produced. We will not produce it, and to be honest, they cannot really do it anymore - there are no specialists, personnel. Our hucksters steal, and politicians turn around every day in a new way.
        All one, everyone will remember that this plane is Ukrainian - it will please.
        How many passenger ANs have Europe or Asia bought from us ?! but not at all! the West pushed us out from everywhere! So let this plane "live" at least.
        Still Russia would have bought and completed the second Mriya :) :) eh ...
        I don’t throw tantrums - I want more of these planes!
        1. So_o_tozh
          So_o_tozh 11 October 2013 17: 20
          0
          Well, yes, I bought it, and then I’ll hand over the gas transport system of Russia, then enter the troops for protection, well ...
          1. Andrey57
            Andrey57 11 October 2013 21: 12
            -1
            The gas transportation system of Ukraine is already unnecessary for Russia, and after the completion of even the 1st stage of South Stream, no one will need it at all, let alone the fact that after that it will be theoretically impossible to steal gas from the gas transportation system, since it will contain only the gas that Ukraine will pay for, and taking into account the current state of Ukrainian finances, there will be none at all. But you can shout about your "independence" 25 hours a day.
      2. BBM
        BBM 11 October 2013 23: 33
        -1
        Quote: Akim
        All who wanted to leave.

        basically it’s true in the United States, even though there they do not need anyone by profession ... so cheap (by their standards, labor force), but according to our opinion, an American builder, handyman, or even cooler a welder is what a wealthy man ...
  27. vikov
    vikov 11 October 2013 13: 40
    +2
    A delusional article, in Russia the aircraft industry is over, the same SuperJet wants to transfer production to India, it is high time to relax and understand that we live from the pipe and its protection.
    1. Russ69
      Russ69 11 October 2013 13: 54
      +4
      Quote: vikov
      the same SuperJet want to transfer production to India

      No need to confuse the complete transfer of production, and just the assembly of aircraft in another territory. If India wants to start collecting them at home, then the volume will be large, which is also a plus for us.

      By the way; engines for the Yak-130 will be assembled in Omsk, instead of Ukraine.
      Engines for the Yak-130 combat trainer will be assembled in Omsk. Now the company has begun production of parts and components. Today, the Governor of the Omsk Region Viktor Nazarov paid a working visit to the Baranov plant.
      In the new assembly shop, the governor is shown the first five kits that are made for the Yak-130 combat trainer.
      After tests confirming their quality, it is planned to completely transfer to the Omsk enterprise not only the manufacture of parts, but also the assembly and testing of engines for this aircraft. Customer representatives who were present at the plant today once again confirmed these plans.

      http://www.military-informant.com/index.php/industry/3911-1.html
      1. REZMovec
        REZMovec 11 October 2013 17: 00
        +2
        God help you! "Don't say gop until you perebrynesh ..."
      2. BBM
        BBM 11 October 2013 23: 14
        +1
        bu-ha-ha - called scared hedgehog naked shraka. While you are going to - Boguslaev is already selling to the Chinese in quantities that are already significantly higher than the plans for the Yak-130 nickname in Russia.
    2. Avenger711
      Avenger711 11 October 2013 13: 59
      -3
      Go to your homeless tales to tell.
      1. LINX
        LINX 14 October 2013 01: 30
        0
        Quote: Avenger711
        Go to your homeless tales to tell.


        Well, you can read fairy tales for yourself at night.



        Training aircraft L-15

        Chairman of the State Agency for Science, Innovation and Informatization, Vladimir Seminozhenko, at a briefing in the Cabinet of Ministers, said that before 2041, Ukraine exports engines for L-15 training aircraft to 5,7 billion dollars to China.

        According to Seminozhenko, the turbojet dual-circuit engine was created by the state-owned enterprise Zaporizhzhya Machine-Building Design Bureau Progress named after Academician A. Ivchenko ”by order of the company“ HONGDU ”(China) for the training aircraft“ L-15 ”.

        Engine deliveries commenced under contract in the 2001 year and should be completed in 2041. Total production is 5,7 billion US dollars. During the mentioned period, Ukraine plans to deliver 1 thousand 920 engines to China and carry out 3 thousand 840 repairs.


        2 engines and their repairs are a good piece of it and it’s not alone.
    3. avg
      avg 11 October 2013 15: 34
      +1
      Yes, in Russia everything is just beginning!
  28. Echo
    Echo 11 October 2013 13: 48
    +3
    Quote: morpogr
    All workers and engineers to be taken to Russia to give citizenship, and the opportunity to build AN planes in Russia, albeit under a different name.

    In fact, this happens even without luring. In Novosibirsk alone, there are a lot of people from Ukraine at aircraft factories. An engineer with experience is ready to go to the position of workers, if only they would take. We have to convince these people not to change their Ukrainian citizenship to Russian - anyway, no one will drive them out of here, because they are Russians, but having the opportunity to influence the politics of Ukraine is good. And all, all, all these elderly uncles from Ukraine and their families are horrified at the mere thought of rapprochement between Ukraine and the Geyropka! If we assume such an insane option that Russia will finally get tired of this mess and Moscow will decide to stop it by military means - these people will be the first to take up arms and go to cut Svidomo, so their anger is great on incumbent leadership.
    1. REZMovec
      REZMovec 11 October 2013 17: 02
      0
      Call to war ???
      1. cherkas.oe
        cherkas.oe 12 October 2013 15: 56
        -1
        Quote: REZMovec
        Call to war ???

        What are you basting ?, chopper with wheels.
    2. BBM
      BBM 12 October 2013 00: 56
      0
      Quote: Echo
      and Moscow decides to stop it by military means - these people will be the first to take up arms and go to chop Svidomo,

      : ptn:
  29. nekromonger
    nekromonger 11 October 2013 13: 52
    +4
    Quote: Kibalchish
    You just need to lure the chief designers and engineers to Russia. And we have the capacity for production in our country. And there will be an Russian wink

    they have long been in the next world, there is no one to lure. the development of the 80s.
  30. tun1313
    tun1313 11 October 2013 13: 53
    +2
    I just don’t understand if Russia is the legal successor of the USSR and took upon itself the debts, which is why intellectual property is not hers.
    1. LINX
      LINX 14 October 2013 01: 39
      +1
      Because the RF is the legal successor of the USSR only in terms of its place in the UN Security Council and international treaties (such as MTR) and basta .... all 15 republics have equal rights to intellectual property.

      By the way, by the statute of limitations, it already belongs to no one (more than 20 years), that the Soviet Academy of Sciences, that Kalashnikov, that the Bison can officially be made by any Honduras (if it can).

      And in the place with the debts of the Russian Federation, she received a large diamond / currency funds and foreign real estate of the USSR.
      1. Russ69
        Russ69 14 October 2013 01: 49
        0
        Quote: LINX
        And in the place with the debts of the Russian Federation, she received a large diamond / currency funds and foreign real estate of the USSR.

        And a bunch of debts in addition, which Russia repaid.
  31. Altona
    Altona 11 October 2013 14: 11
    +6
    I am being killed by conversations "expensive-cheap" ... Probably no more expensive than money, for some reason our ancestors in the 30s paid for the Soviet industrialization, and the current hucksters can't even touch ... Planes, machines, trucks, and everything else ... To do, to promote, to break into the markets ... And not to ship the loot offshore ...
  32. mithridate
    mithridate 11 October 2013 14: 34
    +1
    well, why not. If the "Antonovites" confuse economics with politics, let them sit on the beans
  33. Cherdak
    Cherdak 11 October 2013 15: 44
    +1
    Antonov, Oleg Konstantinovich was born in with. Trinity Podolsky district of Moscow province. In 1925 he entered the engineering department of the Leningrad Polytechnic Institute. Kalinin, who graduated in 1930.
    Since 1943, he was the First Deputy General Designer Yakovlev, in 1946 he headed the OKB branch in Novosibirsk, later - his OKB-153 (since 1952 - Kiev GSOKB-473, since 1966 - Kiev Mechanical Plant, since 1984 - OKB Antonov Design Bureau, since 1989 - Aviation Scientific and Technical Complex "Antonov").

    In short, the man was Russian, and the entire inheritance was Soviet, and Russia was the legal successor of the USSR. Everything else is in the furnace.
    1. Akim
      Akim 11 October 2013 15: 51
      +8
      Quote: Cherdak
      In short, the man was Russian, and the entire inheritance was Soviet, and Russia was the legal successor of the USSR. Everything else is in the furnace.

      And Korolev was born in Zhytomyr. Give rocket science! What stupid principle of sharing on chauvinism? Because of people like you, the USSR did not.
      1. cherkas.oe
        cherkas.oe 11 October 2013 16: 14
        -5
        Quote: Akim
        Give rocket science!

        That take relatives, cola tyama grab. And then mabud, darling trisne.
        1. Akim
          Akim 11 October 2013 19: 12
          +2
          Quote: cherkas.oe
          And then mabud, darling trisne.

          This is the same principle as mentioned above. Those. You can, but we can not? Such suggestions are nonsense, therefore, it is not necessary to start raving, so how not to return. And then the Germans will demand the South of Russia and Ukraine, because Catherine was German.
        2. REZMovec
          REZMovec 11 October 2013 20: 47
          +4
          Do not try to distort the Ukrainian language, your, for a start, learn.
          1. cherkas.oe
            cherkas.oe 11 October 2013 21: 12
            -2
            Quote: REZMovec
            Learn yours, for starters.

            You don’t need to trend, about the language, for me it’s Ukrainian native, and Russian, I think I know better than you train.
  34. cherkas.oe
    cherkas.oe 11 October 2013 16: 11
    -2
    Oh, tsulo b garne dilo, and the staff from Antonov would be dragged back to Russia, because when the same, people from Novosibirsk left for Ukraine with Antonov when the design bureaus transferred. Now we assume that everything is returning home. good
    1. saturn.mmm
      saturn.mmm 11 October 2013 22: 06
      +2
      Quote: cherkas.oe
      Now we assume that everything is returning home.

      The Kiev Aviation Plant AVIANT was established on September 9 of 1920 on the decision of the Council of the Military Industry No. 15178 under the name State Aviation Factory No. 12 (GAZ-12). It was created on the basis of small scattered repair shops and was located before the war on the street. Harmonious. The first director of the plant and actually its organizer was Professor Bobrov, Victorian Flavianovich.
      Here is the Ukrainian language native to you, but there are problems with your native history.
  35. klim44
    klim44 11 October 2013 16: 44
    +1
    I suggest that the Germans pick up the production of Mercedes
  36. Arkan
    Arkan 11 October 2013 17: 21
    +1
    Quote: REZMovec

    And remember - without Ukraine there will be no Russia.


    Yah! These mantras are already tired of the order! We have been living separately for 22 years, and ordinary citizens do not initiate referenda in our states on the subject of unity. The realities are completely different.
    1. REZMovec
      REZMovec 11 October 2013 20: 50
      +3
      No, Arkan, don’t live! Why are your GDP and DAM not letting go of Ukraine? Have not you thought? Think at your leisure.
      1. cherkas.oe
        cherkas.oe 11 October 2013 21: 19
        -1
        Quote: REZMovec
        Why are your GDP and DAM not letting go of Ukraine? Have not you thought? Think at your leisure.

        What is there to think? Everything is as clear as on a white day. Ukraine was part of Russia, and will be, not a wash, so a skating. Once, the story of the betrayal of Orthodoxy and the Slavic brothers by Ukraine should end.
  37. So_o_tozh
    So_o_tozh 11 October 2013 17: 27
    +4
    Yes, the cunning is scattered, the cunning sales even hike us Ukrainians around the finger. Do you think normal, sober people here do not notice how Russia wants to close everything on itself? and ANs and diesel locomotives, nothing of what was signed under treaties by Russia is being implemented. As they say here, in Europe there is nothing Ukrainian inadequate, only raw materials and semi-finished products in Russia are inadequate from Ukraine, Russia will soon close all technological chains at home, it is very profitable about fairy tales such as Ukraine does not let it go, it doesn’t ..., quietly curtail cooperation and start releasing at home.
    1. Corneli
      Corneli 11 October 2013 17: 50
      +4
      Quote: So_o_tozh
      Yes, the cunning is scattered, the cunning sales even hike us Ukrainians around the finger. Do you think normal, sober people here do not notice how Russia wants to close everything on itself? and ANs and diesel locomotives, nothing of what was signed under treaties by Russia is being implemented. As they say here, in Europe there is nothing Ukrainian inadequate, only raw materials and semi-finished products in Russia are inadequate from Ukraine, Russia will soon close all technological chains at home, it is very profitable about fairy tales such as Ukraine does not let it go, it doesn’t ..., quietly curtail cooperation and start releasing at home.

      This is not a matter of "cunning" as such ... It is profitable, and even normal (in the market sense). And about the "closure", yes - this is a FACT, which is trying to "cover up" with any heresy. Even under this article, the slogan-A let Russia start, spit on "foreign property" to build AN aircraft as supposedly their own (in short, China rules). AND?
      If this is done by China, the forum yells about theft, crooked hands, lack of brains, etc. - the conclusion is that the Chinese are bad!
      The same is proposed to Russia and everything "magically" changes! The bad ones are not the ones who "shit", the bad "evil and greedy Ukrainians"! Substitution of concepts and double standards, boggles the imagination! And so that the theft itself does not look SO vile (after all, Russia, or rather its leadership, cannot be vile, or rather the same vile as the Chinese or Americans), they are trying to stick in the slogan about the USSR's legal succession.
      Over the past year, I really "oh ... l" from how much the Russians (as an example, this forum, where it seems like adults and adequate people, not juvenile trolls) were brainwashed! The scale is amazing! Several articles a day, where at least half an article is twisted just zvizdets like. And I (although I want to, I know where and who is this slag and they are paid for it), I do not even have time to write that the article as a whole is a lie and propaganda! I start to read a bunch of comments, one is cooler ... and I get lost (In general, the feeling that I came to the "durka" and 20 people sitting on medication "Napoleons" are arguing with me, trying to argue with one, but the other 19 will tell anyone need not! basically nobody wants to even try to think ... Few people are confused by the contradictions, in the infe itself and in the actions, the "bawlers" hammer any dialogue / discussion ... In short, just well .. a!
      1. stranik72
        stranik72 11 October 2013 19: 22
        0
        You are wrong, but rather not informed, for example, the TV3-117 engine, we in Russia could have started producing long ago, but we tried to agree with Motor Sich, joint ownership (such as a joint venture) did not work out due to the fault of the Ukrainian side, now You (Motor Sich) say let's, and what to give, you are now "Europe" and meaning. This was the case for many other aviation problems. By the way, since the beginning of the 90s, we very much asked Ukraine not to destroy the Tu-160, some (newer) Tu-22M3 and some Tu-95MS, so what? A bit of the Tu-160 was saved, and the engines that you had on the Tu-160 in the warehouses where they were, were handed over for scrap metal, some yes, and some were sold to the USA, and to China, and to Russia, so no need to say, that your authorities are "white and fluffy" in shit no less than ours. The task of both those and others, to embroil us, turns out so far. It's not worth breaking.
        1. roial
          roial 11 October 2013 20: 02
          +2
          for example, the TV3-117 engine, we in Russia could have started producing for a long time, but everyone tried to negotiate With Motor Sich, joint ownership (such as a joint venture) did not work out through the fault of the Ukrainian side


          Are you sure that the problem was in Motor Sich and not Russian contractor ??? Under what conditions did you try to agree ??

          By the way, from the beginning of the 90s we very much asked Ukraine not to destroy the Tu-160, part (newer) of the Tu-22M3 and some TU-95MS so what?


          WHO requested ??? Have you tried to BUY them ?? If my memory serves me right, Ukraine offered them to you, but in the early 90s Russia could not only buy Ukrainian planes but also support its own in combat condition.

          the engines that you had on the Tu-160 in the warehouses where you did it


          who wanted it and bought them, but that they did not sell as unnecessary, they were scrapped. Again, no one bothered Russia to redeem them.
          1. The comment was deleted.
        2. Corneli
          Corneli 12 October 2013 15: 58
          +2
          Quote: stranik72
          You are wrong, but rather not informed, for example, the TV3-117 engine, we in Russia could have started producing long ago, but we tried to agree with Motor Sich, joint ownership (such as a joint venture) did not work out due to the fault of the Ukrainian side, now You (Motor Sich) say let's, and what to give, you are now "Europe" and meaning.

          Rather, I believe that they wanted to grab Motor Sich (like Luganskteplovoz, which was on the verge of bankruptcy 6 times over the past 3 years after privatization), but it did not work out. And what about "Europe" and the impossibility of working with such, excuse me, is complete nonsense.
          As an example: Superjet engines are the entire "hot" part of production in France (Snecma), promising MS-21 in general, so far with Amerov's "Pratt & Whitne" engines (alternative Russian ones are only under development).
          Here is the work of Russian aviation companies with the most sho to eat Western manufacturers of engines. and nothing prevents them.
          Quote: stranik72
          By the way, since the beginning of the 90s, we very much asked Ukraine not to destroy the Tu-160, some (newer) Tu-22M3 and some Tu-95MS, so what? A bit of the Tu-160 was saved, and the engines that you had on the Tu-160 in the warehouses where they were, were handed over for scrap metal, some yes, and some were sold to the USA, and to China, and to Russia, so no need to say, that your authorities are "white and fluffy" in shit no less than ours.

          There were no "white and fluffy" in those years either in Russia or in Ukraine. I remember the second election of the Preza, the acting Kravchuk from his "achievements" on the first term was able to come up with one current - I did not allow war. But about what he "allowed" and so everyone knew ...
      2. BBM
        BBM 11 October 2013 23: 26
        +2
        don't be surprised - these "patriots" for the most part in 1991 waved the Vlasov tricolor and shouted for Russia for freedom (those who are older). As they say, congratulations on the day of independence (from common sense) But now "they have grown wiser". Although, in reality, the words from the song cannot be deleted "what you were, so you remain"
      3. cherkas.oe
        cherkas.oe 12 October 2013 14: 58
        +1
        Quote: Corneli
        ... Few people are embarrassed by the contradictions, in the infe itself and in the actions, the "bawlers" clog any dialogue / discussion ... In short, just well .. a!

        I want to answer you, not because I do not agree or agree with everything that you wrote, but because I see real pain for what is happening between Russia and Ukraine. I am Ukrainian, I live in Russia, was born and raised here, relatives in Ukraine are more than in Russia, almost all are from my father, my mother is just an aunt and brother with a family, children, grandchildren, etc. More recently, I vomited w..p..y and argued that Ukraine made a huge financial contribution to the USSR piggy bank, but they bumped my nose. And I personally found out that Ukraine, throughout the history of its stay in the USSR, was a subsidized region with all its wealth, developed industry and agriculture. Hence the conclusion that Russia, as the assignee of the USSR, has the right to use the intellectual and industrial heritage of the USSR, especially since the completion of the AN-70 was carried out with Russian money, including, I don’t even want to argue about the AN-124, Russia has every right to modernize it to mind and produce at the Ulyanovsk plant, where it was produced from the very beginning, and Russia did not do this before, only hoping that all the same Ukraine will return to normal fraternal cooperation. For fifteen years, Ukraine received gas for ridiculous money, used it in metallurgy, and even sold it. Russia's annual subsidies to the Ukrainian economy amounted to $ 16 billion. And now, when Russia finally realized that it wasn’t possible to go this way, otherwise it had grown its own money to raise an enemy looking west and spoiling by all available means (unauthorized gas extraction from the pipe, help Georgia in the war with South Ossetia) and this is only a small part of what Uraina did. Now that Ukraine is on the verge of becoming an association with the EU and there is an even greater economic and political threat to Russia's interests, Russia (I believe) has free hands to observe moral and ethical standards in all areas of relations with Ukraine, because it’s not Russia this is the beginning. Of course, you can have your own personal opinion on this subject, but I think it will not be interesting for you to know the opinion of a person who is not indifferent to the fate of Ukraine, but who looks at the problem from a different perspective. Sincerely, Cherkas. O.E.
        1. Kars
          Kars 12 October 2013 15: 21
          +3
          Quote: cherkas.oe
          And I personally found out that Ukraine, throughout the history of its stay in the USSR, was a subsidized region with all its wealth,

          You are cruelly deceived.

          Can you blame Ukraine that in World War II its territory was completely occupied by Germany? And twice a wave of scorched earth swept over it? And did the evacuated factories come across the Urals?
          And if you are embarrassed by petrodollars, gold waxes - then do not be embarrassed until you are proved that prospectors, and then field developers were ethnic Russians
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. Kars
              Kars 12 October 2013 16: 14
              +2
              Quote: cherkas.oe
              Across Russia, there and back from Pskov to Stalingrad

              In Russia, it is far from the same as in Ukraine. And with a little look at the maps of military operations, this will become clear.
              Quote: cherkas.oe
              and all the plants were returned to their place

              Not all, and in new places did not dismantle anything.
              Quote: cherkas.oe
              ro of ethnically pure developers, or defenders of the motherland - this is a purely Ukrainian chip in Russia, even in the malicious Zhid press

              So it’s you yourself who wrote it.
              Quote: cherkas.oe
              residence in the USSR was a subsidized region with all its wealth, developed industry and agriculture. Hence the conclusion that, Russia,

              Quote: cherkas.oe
              so what, you respected is not in the warehouse, not in the way ....... it turns out.

              I have everything in the warehouse.
              Quote: cherkas.oe
              Yes, .. to the account - "You were deceived", the USSR State Statistics Committee did not deceive its government.)
              Goskomstat? Are you sure? And the numbers are not enough to see, they still need to be understood.
  38. Boris63
    Boris63 11 October 2013 18: 09
    0
    I don’t know about everyone else, but I got a “feeling” that after “pre-integration” with Europe, a variant is possible: the left bank (to the east), the right bank (into the geyrop). The Academy of Sciences should be released in Russia, since it is the SUCCESSOR of the USSR (they even paid the debts FOR EVERYONE).
    1. LINX
      LINX 14 October 2013 01: 51
      +1
      Quote: Boris63
      even paid debts FOR EVERYONE

      and all that was common


      Quote: Boris63
      I don’t know about everyone else, but I got a “feeling” that after “pre-integration” with Europe, a variant is possible: the left bank (to the east), the right bank (into the geyrop).


      Minus for the desire to divide a foreign country, share it with the Chinese in the Urals and or whatever you want.
  39. stranik72
    stranik72 11 October 2013 19: 09
    +7
    From the point of view of international law, if Ukraine does not sell this brand (AN) together with the aircraft, then the maximum that Russia can do is to produce "Laiba -124", etc., that's just for this, talented copiers are needed, and with this is the problem in Russia. Summary, there is no need to seriously discuss this topic, and once again spit on Ukraine, this is exactly the lot of real "tough pedriots".
  40. runway
    runway 11 October 2013 19: 15
    +3
    From such news smells bad - like: "And if they do not take lottery tickets? - Then we turn off the gas" ("The Diamond Arm").
    From such squabbles, ordinary people lose both in Ukraine and in Russia. The oligarchs, as always, compensate for their losses at the expense of the budget. The scandal between Russia and Belarus has led to the fact that the latter raises the issue of membership in the Customs Union .... I would like to hope that this will be limited to this. But the interesting thing is. When the issue of the TS was still being discussed on the website, many already said that Russia should not pursue a policy of pressure on the union states - you will not be forcibly sweet. What did the Kremlin come up with - for some countries gas at a reduced price, and for others at a higher price ... Who did they want to punish? To organize a civilized market is the responsibility of the leaders of the countries participating in the CU. But they cannot, let them go where they are sitting.
  41. APASUS
    APASUS 11 October 2013 19: 33
    +2
    And for me this is how the systematic closure and liquidation of the Antonov firm goes.
    Who and with whose hands is the second thing, but in essence they remove the competitor!
    1. BBM
      BBM 11 October 2013 23: 31
      +2
      just not the second. Given that the Russian aircraft industry has already been killed and the Ukrainian is not yet completely finished. So brainwash at your leisure ...
  42. Cosmos-1869
    Cosmos-1869 11 October 2013 20: 15
    -2
    Quote: Boris63
    ... the left bank (to the east), the right bank (to the geyropu) ...
    IMHO, the only possible option for "solving the Ukrainian question" and ending the long-term shit.
  43. shark
    shark 11 October 2013 20: 27
    0
    Russia is the legal successor of the USSR. Consequently, the issue of the rights to the production of "Ruslan" should not stand at all. This is ours by right. The issue with the AN-70 is more complicated, but in principle we solve. The first is to try to buy out the license. This will significantly simplify our life , and the image of the rule of law. The second is the Chinese version and nii pet. But I like the third one more - to create YOUR plane, to create it according to the latest technology, in relation to our conditions. At the same time, to mobilize young personnel, breathe life into some design bureaus. The Soviet groundwork, the Soviet school of design is all great. But when will we be create their own-rossiyskaya. time would have already attended to this issue. Well, and the last option. Ukraine will join the EU, precise mechanical engineering, aircraft construction is destroyed. Then (all in white) our emissaries appear and slowly agitate all the Antonov design bureaus to move to Russia. That would be the most fun. But alas ... fantastic ...
    1. LINX
      LINX 14 October 2013 01: 56
      0
      RF legal successor of the USSR only in terms of a place in the UN Security Council and international treaties (such as MTR) and basta .... all 15 republics have equal rights to intellectual property.

      By the way, by the statute of limitations, it already belongs to no one (more than 20 years), that the Soviet Academy of Sciences, that Kalashnikov, that the Bison can officially be made by any Honduras (if it can).


      Do you want to produce Ruslan - a flag in your hands, but I doubt that it will be possible to do this by stepping over Antonov.
  44. Arkan
    Arkan 11 October 2013 22: 13
    -1
    Quote: REZMovec
    No, Arkan, don’t live! Why are your GDP and DAM not letting go of Ukraine? Have not you thought? Think at your leisure.


    We are still held by the old cooperative ties in industry. But there is nothing eternal under the moon.
  45. Arkan
    Arkan 11 October 2013 22: 24
    -1
    Quote: Ukraine was part of Russia [/ quote


    "was" is the past tense of the verb.
  46. Vlad_Mir
    Vlad_Mir 11 October 2013 22: 25
    +1
    In the place of the Russians, I would generally refrain from investing in any projects. The leadership and politicians of Ukraine are doing everything to make Russia an enemy state in the eyes of the population. The country clearly decided to go through the development of the Baltic states: you give us handouts, and we pour shit on our neighbor!
    1. Kars
      Kars 11 October 2013 22: 34
      +5
      Quote: Vlad_Mir
      Ukraine’s kovodstvo and politicians are doing everything to make Russia in

      By the way, in your country in Russia, Rosembaum pepper as a dispersant? Swamp? He was invited here to discuss the fight Klitschka Povetkin - as he mentioned in the Russian Federation as anti-Ukrainian hysteria in the media.
  47. BBM
    BBM 11 October 2013 22: 27
    +5
    Quote: shark
    When (all in white) our emissaries appear and slowly agitate all the Antonov design bureaus to move to Russia. That would be the most fun. But alas ... fantastic.

    Well, you are a dreamer. For your information, of all the KBs of the former Union, only KB Antnova managed to survive more. Where are the design bureaus of Tupolev, Mikoyan, Sukhov ??? except on paper. So seeing such a perspective, hardly anyone in a sober mind and sound memory will be tempted by such prospects
    1. shark
      shark 12 October 2013 12: 22
      0
      The design bureaus of Tupolev, Mikoyan, Sukhoi work as they worked. There was a time of rampant democracy and freedom - there was a decline. But thank God we are slowly moving away from this false model of society.
  48. Grandson of Veteran
    Grandson of Veteran 11 October 2013 22: 35
    -3
    Quote: Sunjar
    How the blankets were jammed with a twitch on themselves, and on both sides. With all due respect to the Ukrainian people, it was generally not worth building factories there, and in other union republics too. The USSR would concentrate all industry on the territory of the RSFSR (with the exception of shipyards), and all the former Soviet republics would suck their paws. I consider the decision made to build everything and in all republics a mistake. Just then they could not even imagine that someone would decide to secede.


    And this is by the way about "damned Russian occupants" ... How they, poor fellows, shitty life ... They would sit now in ecologically clean steppes (mountains, plains, deserts) and raise ecologically clean children. And so damn literacy, industry ...
  49. Grandson of Veteran
    Grandson of Veteran 11 October 2013 22: 40
    +1
    Quote: So_o_tozh
    Yes, the cunning is scattered, the cunning sales even hike us Ukrainians around the finger. Do you think normal, sober people here do not notice how Russia wants to close everything on itself? and ANs and diesel locomotives, nothing of what was signed under treaties by Russia is being implemented. As they say here, in Europe there is nothing Ukrainian inadequate, only raw materials and semi-finished products in Russia are inadequate from Ukraine, Russia will soon close all technological chains at home, it is very profitable about fairy tales such as Ukraine does not let it go, it doesn’t ..., quietly curtail cooperation and start releasing at home.

    Have you been waiting for what will be different? After all that Ukraine has done in relation to Russia? Are you feeling good?!?
  50. Grandson of Veteran
    Grandson of Veteran 11 October 2013 23: 13
    -2
    It’s already been blown away .... Apparently, for the fact that I forgot to mention the sovereignty donated.