Military Review

Russia plus China minus America

62
Russia plus China minus AmericaControversial the news on the burning topic of China and Russia in recent days, the media have become full. Some analysts, including those with professorships, are sure that after twenty years China will become so powerful that Russia and the United States will create a strategic alliance against it. Other experts, including those from the IMF, claim that both China and Russia have already exhausted their model of economic growth. Still others believe that the Chinese and Russian trend is just growth. Fourth are sure: not America, but China and Russia today are creating an alliance whose goal is to control the Asia-Pacific region. So controversialистория of the future ”, as the writer Wilson would put it, leads to certain reflections, the main of which are the components of Beijing and Moscow. But the United States, it seems, will be bracketed ... It’s not for nothing that China turned out to be the dominant force at the APEC summit, and Xi Jinping didn’t even deign to mention Barack Obama in the keynote speech.


In a recent review of Western newspapers from "Foreign Press" The arguments of the Le Figaro correspondent Arno Rodier were cited. He believes that China’s President Xi Jinping became the “summit star”. And this is what Comrade Si said: "China cannot develop in isolation from the Asia-Pacific region, and the countries of the region cannot flourish without China."

This, we add, is nothing more than a clear bid for leadership.

"The New York Times" gives a little softer material. “Obama’s absence has made China the dominant force at the APEC summit,” the newspaper writes.

Meanwhile, Xi Jinping delivered a keynote speech on the economic reorganization of China and the importance of the Asia-Pacific partnership for this country, and Obama was not even mentioned.

Obama was going to use the summit to stimulate negotiations on the Transpacific Partnership, but Obama did not have the money to fly to the summit. The White House administration hoped that South Korea would announce Seoul’s readiness to enter into negotiations, but expectations were not met. "Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak also undermined hopes for a trade agreement," the publication points out.

Sad news for the US, note. As a result, the crisis in the United States in a geopolitical sense is in the hands of China.

However, there is also a sense of economic, which is ahead of geopolitical, and not the other way around. In China, they are not at all happy that in a week or two the United States, represented by the Secretary of the Treasury, can declare a “default” - that is, the inability of the state to repay debts, including foreign ones.

China is the main American lender. In the Middle Kingdom, according to the Associated Press, it is almost 23% of US government debt. And the other day the Chinese officially asked the Americans to do without a default.

"China, the largest US lender, naturally, is concerned about the American fiscal cliff," - quotes the channel "RT" Deputy Minister of Finance of the PRC Zhu Guangzhao.

In the meantime, cooperation between China and the Russian Federation, including in the sphere of geopolitics, is expanding and strengthening. Approximately how friendship of peoples in the era of the USSR.

As the RIA News"Vladimir Putin noted the consistency of interaction between Russia and China from the point of solving important international problems, in particular, on Syria.

“Our coordinated position in the international arena is undoubtedly bearing fruit. Manages to achieve solutions to the world's largest problems. The latest example is the Syrian problem, ”said V. Putin, opening a meeting with Xi Jinping at the APEC summit.

The Chinese leader, in turn, noted that the parties are taking similar positions on sensitive issues: “The closest interaction to solve the Syrian issue, to solve the nuclear problem on the Korean Peninsula is a clear evidence of this. I think that we have either similar or identical positions on all these issues. ”

And then Comrade Xi noted that Russia plays an important role in the Asia-Pacific region.

This was followed by a statement by the Chinese leader about the readiness to continue developing cooperation within the framework of APEC.

Xi Jinping summed up: "This year is a year of a rich harvest in the development of our relations."

Further, the conversation touched on such important topics as foreign trade and military cooperation between China and the Russian Federation.

Vladimir Putin noted that Russia and China cooperate in military-technical cooperation and military affairs. He recalled that the military of the two countries participated in two large exercises on land and at sea. In turn, Comrade Xi said that this year there will be a meeting of the commission on military-technical cooperation, a meeting of heads of government and the closing ceremony of the Year of Chinese Tourism in Russia.

What do the Chinese write about all this?

On the portal cri.cn (English version) with reference to Xinhua 8 of October, an article appeared, the leitmotiv of which is the Chinese invitation to Russia to participate in ensuring the security of the Asia-Pacific Region (APR).

The essence of the material in brief is as follows.

At the APEC summit in backstage conversation with V. Putin, Xi Jinping said that China would like to work with Russia to ensure security and stability in the APR. At the same time, Comrade X declared that China and Russia have a wide range of common interests in the region.

Developing the topic, the Chinese leader explained that China is ready to strengthen coordination with Russia in order to maintain security and stability in the region, as well as to promote its prosperity.

In addition, the Chinese leader called 2013 a fruitful year for China and Russia, noting that a lot had been achieved. He then urged both sides to optimize the structure of bilateral trade, to promote cooperation in energy, resources and high technology and to continue to maintain close contacts and coordinate on international issues.

The Chinese resource also notes that at the talks, the leaders of the two countries agreed to hold events in 2015 to celebrate the 70 anniversary of the victory over the Nazis.

The press notes the Chinese-Russian rapprochement within the framework of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO).

Peter Akopov ("Sight") writes that the SCO is becoming an increasingly influential player on the world stage - the union of Moscow, Beijing and Delhi.

Russia supported the bids of India and Pakistan. And such support is impossible without the consent of China.

“India almost from the very moment of the creation of the SCO wanted to join this organization, and it was accepted as an observer,” Tatyana Shaumyan, head of the Center for Indian Studies of the Institute of Oriental Studies of the Russian Academy of Sciences, explained to the Vzglyad newspaper. “But as soon as the conversation about its full-fledged entry began, Pakistan immediately joined, who was also interested in accepting to the SCO. In this situation, it turned out that Russia was ready to support the entry of India, and China rather spoke in favor of Pakistan. Apparently, Beijing did not even so much object to the accession of India, as it indicated that in this case Pakistan must also be accepted. As a result, it was decided to join both countries. ”

Joint decisions of the PRC and the Russian Federation within the framework of the SCO, thus, also speak of increasing geopolitical and economic cooperation.

The accelerated development of China, which has become a significant geopolitical player, gave rise to one American professor to declare: in 2035, China will become a threat to Russia and the United States, and as a result, the two states will unite against Beijing.

In an editorial entitled "American Professor: by 2035, China will become a threat to Russia and America, and the powers will create an anti-Chinese union" ("Huangqiu Shibao"; source of translation - "InoSMI"), with reference to RIA Novosti, the words of Eduard Ponarin, a professor at the HSE Department, are cited. 1 August at the presentation of the report “Russian elite - 2020” (report on the development of Russia in the period from 2015 to 2030 year created with the help of the Valdai Club), he noted that the views of the Russian elite on the USA had undergone a significant transformation: if in 1993 year the tip of Russian society was friendly to America, but today America is perceived as a threat to Russia's security. True, if a “common threat” hangs over these two countries, the elites of the United States and Russia may discover a commonality of interests. William Zimmerman, a professor at the University of Michigan who participated in the discussion, said bluntly that the “common threat” is China. Zimmerman further stated that by 2035, China would become a sufficient threat for Russia and the United States to join forces to fight China, the Chinese newspaper said.

The expert on Chinese-Russian relations, Xia Yishan in the same “Huanqiu Shibao,” the next day, explained that in Russia there is an alarm about the direction in which China will develop. In Russia, there are supporters of the idea of ​​a "yellow threat", but they are few. The expert draws the attention of readers to the fact that after the collapse of the USSR, America had a great influence on the Russian intelligentsia. Some even began to speak instead of American speakers, announcing a “yellow threat”. Again, these people do not represent the views of the entire Russian intelligentsia. To this, Xia Ishan added that the Russian experts he knew did not raise the topic of the Russian-American alliance against China. The expert believes that the Russian public is much more concerned about the possibility of rapprochement between the United States and China: these two powers would then be able to completely rule the world.

As for the American experts, they have expressed their thoughts about the Russian-American alliance against the PRC for the first time. It is they who often slander China: they say, he is crushing the neighboring countries and is going to take over Russian natural resources. The conclusion that Washington and Moscow should join forces and put an end to the growth of Chinese influence in Asia is also American.

In a essay published in Foreign Affairs, senior researcher at the Center for New American Security Robert D. Kaplan writes that in order not to yield to China, the United States can conclude a strategic alliance with Russia. And Russia may well accept such a proposal: after all, China allegedly slowly seizes the territories of the Far East and Siberia by means of settlers and enterprises “leaking” into it.

In October, predictions about the bright (or dark) future of China and Russia appeared in the media.

Ekaterina Kravchenko (Vedomosti.ru) cites the IMF forecast, according to which Russia and China have exhausted the current growth model.

The Russian economy, the Fund believes, will grow by an average of 3,5% versus 4,4% in 1998-2013, and the Chinese economy will grow by 7% versus 9,6%.

The forecast says about the reasons for the slowdown of the “dragon”: “The excessively high growth rates of investment, which accounted for almost half of GDP, led to the creation of excess capacity and diminishing returns.” It is also noted that the demographic factor has been exhausted: since 2014, the number of labor force in the PRC will begin to decline, and productivity will decline.

What prevents Russia from developing?

There is poor infrastructure, especially transport and power grid, there is excessive dependence on commodities, there is a bad business climate. Growth in the Russian Federation continued due to the high price of oil and free capacity, according to the IMF. Foundation experts point out: "This model no longer works."

According to the forecast, in 2013 the growth of the Russian economy will be only 1,5% - after 3,4% in 2012, and 4,3% in 2011. In 2014, the growth will reach 3%. Negative demographic dynamics will reinforce negative factors. And in the slowdown of Russia will contribute to the attenuation of the economy of China. This contribution will be 0,9% in 2013 and 0,7% in 2014.

IA "Finmarket" cites the message of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD), according to which the leading indicators in China indicate that the economic growth rates there return to a long-term trend. In Russia, a positive change in growth momentum was noted.

The Chinese index of leading indicators remained at the level of the 99,3 point, the Russian index rose from the 99,3 point to the 99,4 point.

As for the United States, we’ll add, on October 17, a “default” can occur: the state will not be able to pay its debts. Leading economists are already predicting a US catastrophe. Against this background, it is hard to believe that Russia will unite with America in order to resist the expansion of China. It’s all the same as if a drowning person would ask for help from another drowning person.

Observed and translated by Oleg Chuvakin
- especially for topwar.ru
62 comments
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  1. aszzz888
    aszzz888 14 October 2013 08: 31
    18
    At the APEC summit in backstage conversation with V. Putin, Xi Jinping said that China would like to work with Russia to ensure security and stability in the APR. At the same time, Comrade X declared that China and Russia have a wide range of common interests in the region.


    Let them work, but we need to keep our eyes open. Asia-s.
    1. os9165
      os9165 14 October 2013 08: 41
      12
      Oh, how right you are. keep on the alert. Asia, sir. ”Your interests are above all.
      1. skeptic
        skeptic 14 October 2013 12: 23
        +2
        Quote: os9165
        Oh, how right you are. keep on the alert. Asia, sir. ”Your interests are above all.


        What prevents Russia from developing?

        Too great dependence of "agents of influence", in the highest and not so, layers of power, the economy on the "development indicators" from the United States.

        As for China, he has entangled the entire United States with a soft web of "obedience and obedient consent", and now he is removing the foam, along with the skin.
        And therefore, why should the Celestial Empire fight with Russia, when they, gradually, very gently, inside of us, solve all their tasks.

        In any case, the three poles of influence are preferable for the world. Any "friendship" of the two sides is fraught with the third. At the same time, each of the two "friendly" parties will be afraid of neutralizing the third, as this may lead to confrontation, but there will be no interest in helping development. Who needs strong competitors?

        I do not know why, but the too close friendship between Russia and China reminds me of the "friendship" of a donkey with a boa constrictor. And with the United States - it's even worse.
        So it will be, while semi-asian Russia will not stop idle in the economy, as the last twenty-odd years.
    2. pahom54
      pahom54 14 October 2013 10: 23
      +6
      I fully agree with this statement of the "comrade", but I would like to add a remark on my own: "AT THIS STAGE OF DEVELOPMENT OF INTERNATIONAL AND POLITICAL RELATIONS, not only in the region, but also in the world."
      Today, it is beneficial for both China and Russia to "be friends" against the expansion and dominance of the United States, and both of these countries together can oust the Yankees from among the international economic and political leaders. Again, at this stage ...
      However, Russia needs to be very careful in this "friendship" and not to make rash moves, since in the future the struggle for hegemony may begin just between the PRC and Russia. At the same time, one should take into account both the economic strength of China and the power and size of its Armed Forces ...
      In general, to date, an alliance with China can and should bring Russia only benefit. And then it will be seen.
      1. Walker1975
        Walker1975 14 October 2013 17: 35
        +3
        Why not create a vehicle with China at all? ;) So many mutually beneficial directions - China consumes resources and produces goods, and Russia - vice versa.
    3. Basarev
      Basarev 14 October 2013 12: 15
      +2
      The East may be a delicate matter, but we, too, are the East
      1. alone
        alone 14 October 2013 20: 14
        +1
        China practically seizes all markets with its cheap trash, destroying production in countries. So, speaking of China as an ally, we need to think about this word, whose ally is it?
      2. Van
        Van 14 October 2013 23: 18
        0
        Our main task is to have "our" word in all our affairs and order within our borders, everything else will follow.

        What we definitely shouldn’t do is to fight for some abstract and imposed Beliefs, the main thing for us is to keep our own and not to lose what we have. hi
  2. Krapovy32
    Krapovy32 14 October 2013 08: 36
    23
    Nevertheless, they are afraid of the United States of a lasting alliance between Russia and China. America is weakening and it makes them the most nervous. Now it’s impossible to force everyone to move in the wake of the United States.
    1. Guun
      Guun 14 October 2013 08: 58
      15
      The West has always been afraid that Russia and China will unite, the very existence of the SCO causes a nervous tic in the West.
      1. washi
        washi 14 October 2013 15: 01
        +2
        Quote: Guun
        The West has always been afraid that Russia and China will unite, the very existence of the SCO causes a nervous tic in the West.

        And before he was afraid of the unification of Russia and Germany
        Hence the conclusion: we must unite on the basis of Russia.
        Germany, Russia, China
        Just recognize the common past (according to Real History)
        1. Walker1975
          Walker1975 14 October 2013 17: 36
          +2
          You can unite. Just why on the basis of Russia? It is necessary, as in the CU, in proportion to the size of the economies (or, if you want, the population).
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. AVV
      AVV 14 October 2013 11: 04
      0
      America will do what is beneficial only to it, China will defend only its interests, therefore our shirt is closer to our body, simply, we don’t have to make any concessions to anyone, there can only be a healthy compromise everywhere, without prejudice to our interests !!!
      1. Starfish
        Starfish 14 October 2013 15: 32
        0
        the time now is that alliances will be created and disintegrated.
        a feeling that we live in 1913-1914 or in 1938-1939.
        but one thing is certain, all the alliances being created with us, whether against us, have one goal — the hope of our complete disappearance both as a people and as a state.
    4. wei
      wei 14 October 2013 23: 45
      0
      while holding unfortunately
      China is a major US lender. The Celestial Empire, according to the Associated Press, has almost 23% of the US public debt.

      Yes, and we are not the best dollar in our pocket, stab fund again
  3. Silkway0026
    Silkway0026 14 October 2013 08: 38
    26
    to be honest, we have already gotten these timid glances at the reviews of the great "experts" or "economists". Experts broadcast what their owners really want to see, "Wishlist", as Putin said. And economists saved up before the world crises ... the impression is that the economy is one big blah blah blah ...

    (and another joke - apparently the Nobel Prize in economics will go to the AMERICAN !!! rzhunimaga)
  4. Alikovo
    Alikovo 14 October 2013 08: 44
    12
    The title of the article looks like a union of 2 countries against another.
    historically, Russia has no real allies, there were alliances with Russia for a short time.
    1. skeptic
      skeptic 14 October 2013 12: 39
      +2
      Quote: Alikovo
      historically, Russia has no real allies, there were alliances with Russia for a short time.


      The true allies of Russia are its Army and Navy. Even kings, the only way the world was perceived.
      1. APOCALIPTIC
        APOCALIPTIC 14 October 2013 18: 25
        0
        The true allies of Russia are its Army and Navy. Even the kings, the only way the world and perceived. [/ Quote]

        Oh, you are behind the times. Russia's real ally is Onishchenko soldier
  5. Asan Ata
    Asan Ata 14 October 2013 08: 52
    10
    Well, apparently, in this rapidly changing world, it is again necessary to create islands, islands and continents of stability. China, unlike the United States, still has a huge domestic market for development, Africa, as a continent for expansion, in the case of improving relations with India, and the Indian market. In general, today the role of Russia can hardly be overestimated: its role as a world peacemaker, which the whole world has confirmed, can change the mutual pretensions of countries to universal peaceful cooperation. The United States dropped its flag soaked in blood, and only a successful war can help raise it. But, obviously, they overestimated their strength. Today, a sharp change in the world course can only change the US trend. But the peaceful debtor is already a cipher sitting at the door. States in prosration. drinks
    1. Revolver
      Revolver 14 October 2013 09: 32
      +2
      Quote: Asan Ata
      China, unlike the USA, still has a huge domestic market for development

      And you did not confuse demand in general with effective demand? In China, the middle class is concentrated in several commercial and industrial areas along the coast and around Beijing, and in cities and especially villages deep into the mainland - the same poverty that was under Mao. The Chinese themselves admit that if exports to America or Europe cease (either of two is enough), the Chinese economy will collapse because more than 90% of the Chinese cannot afford to buy products from Chinese industry.
      1. BBM
        BBM 14 October 2013 10: 38
        +2
        what are these Chinese. like you or something. In the event of the collapse of the dollar empire, China will rake inexorably nishtyakov. Namely, the main and truly priceless one is the opportunity to replace the buck with the yuan and print the world currency for which and buy all the resources China needs. This is their super task and so far it is being carried out very clearly. A couple more years and they will achieve their goal. Of course, it would not hurt them (or even helped a lot) if one of the world's leading suppliers of resources - the Russian Federation, for example, harnessed on their side. It is possible that the CCP promised, in the vocabulary of the GDP, to solidly unfasten for such a service. Plus, mad macaques, like macaques from the Amer’s Senate, also help their threats to Putin’s choice in favor of China. It can be seen that the brain of your glavnyukov has completely and irrevocably dried out. This makes the situation for US abs. hopeless.
      2. gladysheff2010
        gladysheff2010 14 October 2013 12: 01
        +2
        It can be argued with sufficient optimism that the Chinese economy will not “collapse.” The Chinese are pragmatic and do not put all their eggs in one basket, for this reason our positions are converging.
        1. shtanko.49
          shtanko.49 14 October 2013 14: 08
          +1
          China is self-sufficient, it has a very powerful domestic market, with such a base, it will survive any global crisis. And over the past 20 years, it has become obvious that planned social economics are much more viable than the vaunted capitalist economy, they just fooled our brains with gentlemen who made it easier to fill their pockets, and any crime justifying it with business, it’s very doubtful. And why did it become better for those who create everything with their own hands, for which reforms were needed. that destroyed the country.
          1. washi
            washi 14 October 2013 15: 07
            -3
            Quote: shtanko.49
            China is self-sufficient, it has a very powerful domestic market, with such a base, it will survive any global crisis. And over the past 20 years, it has become obvious that planned social economics are much more viable than the vaunted capitalist economy, they just fooled our brains with gentlemen who made it easier to fill their pockets, and any crime justifying it with business, it’s very doubtful. And why did it become better for those who create everything with their own hands, for which reforms were needed. that destroyed the country.

            China depends on everyone. To the big side of us. It is our lead development for China. The Chinese were still labor force and traders
          2. The comment was deleted.
        2. Simonov
          Simonov 15 October 2013 11: 14
          0
          My personal opinion.
          The Chinese economy will collapse as fast as it grew. For some reason, no one takes into account the demography of the Middle Kingdom. The problem of maintaining pensioners is a headache for all developed economies; a large share of GDP is channeled into the non-productive, irreplaceable sphere. Do some simple arithmetic. Population - 1,5 billion people + state policy "one family, one child." The moment will come when the number of pensioners will amount to about 1 billion people. Now the truth of life. Let us assume that the state spends 1 USD per day on the maintenance of one pensioner (this is half-starving, in fact). We multiply by the number of retirees and by the number of days in a year. Have you counted? And if this is not one yusd, but more, plus the accompanying costs for the maintenance of the state apparatus to ensure. Which exit? Gazenvagens?
      3. washi
        washi 14 October 2013 15: 04
        0
        Quote: Nagan
        Quote: Asan Ata
        China, unlike the USA, still has a huge domestic market for development

        And you did not confuse demand in general with effective demand? In China, the middle class is concentrated in several commercial and industrial areas along the coast and around Beijing, and in cities and especially villages deep into the mainland - the same poverty that was under Mao. The Chinese themselves admit that if exports to America or Europe cease (either of two is enough), the Chinese economy will collapse because more than 90% of the Chinese cannot afford to buy products from Chinese industry.

        But such a thing as patriotism by a resident of the United States is no longer considered?
    2. washi
      washi 14 October 2013 15: 03
      0
      It still depends on the "freedom" of the GDP from the west.
  6. Lech from our city
    Lech from our city 14 October 2013 08: 53
    +5
    The United States again faces the abyss of default and this will be repeated again and again.

    Russia and China are more attractive in terms of economic stability.
  7. a52333
    a52333 14 October 2013 08: 55
    12
    Americans don’t already know how to bleed us with China. laughing From for them a gift would be. Do not wait. stop
  8. svskor80
    svskor80 14 October 2013 08: 58
    11
    The West cannot be trusted, and even less so for the Chinese. It is necessary to cooperate with everyone exactly as much as it is beneficial to Russia.
    1. Igor39
      Igor39 14 October 2013 11: 52
      +1
      That's right, to collaborate with a view to gaining political and economic benefits.
  9. Alexander I
    Alexander I 14 October 2013 09: 18
    +3
    Zimmerman further stated that by 2035, China would become a sufficient threat for Russia and the United States to join forces to fight China. Black eyes and curly tanks told us to be friends against China? Russia has no friends, its vastness is afraid ... Russia has always had and has two faithful allies - the Army and Navy
    1. Basarev
      Basarev 14 October 2013 12: 47
      0
      More aviation
      1. F117
        F117 15 October 2013 17: 38
        0
        Missiles, landing and hackers (nobody canceled the information war).
  10. Standard Oil
    Standard Oil 14 October 2013 09: 36
    +4
    How could it be that before the collapse of the USSR was it easy for the Americans to invade the country? We declare its government "pro-communist" and calmly plunder. We need to unite the sprawling North Atlantic Alliance? Show them the Berlin Wall and scare them with the Red Army. Financial problems? frightening with the "Red Threat." nuclear balalaikas here on Red Square are not marching, how can we knock money out of Congress? to financial ... ", in Europe they will not understand and will be sent to the farm ... Previously there were two poles of power, now there are more of them, it is more difficult to keep track it is even more difficult to have their own, there is no money, "evil republicans" no longer give to print, China is whispering badly with Russia, in short, from the 20 century understandable and comfortable for the United States with the Cold War, financial boom, and other sweet buns, Soviet liberals to destroy the USSR by throwing a grand party after their victory, without noticing and without understanding dug their own grave. the political sphere, in short cases above the roof.
    1. 11111mail.ru
      11111mail.ru 14 October 2013 10: 17
      +3
      But Russia will only pay, as is the case with Cyprus. Well, if Saddam's debts were written off to Iraq, then amiable Yankees (kind to our thieves-oligarchs) to write off debts, Yahweh himself ordered.
      1. Basarev
        Basarev 14 October 2013 12: 52
        +1
        But China will not forget and forgive
    2. gladysheff2010
      gladysheff2010 14 October 2013 12: 07
      +1
      Great! Right geometrically accurate!
  11. old rocket man
    old rocket man 14 October 2013 09: 51
    +4
    A very timely article, it is a pity that everything is far from as clear as we would like. Many "experts", especially American ones, paint the situation the way they like. Only one thing is clear - for America the situation will only get worse, at least in in the near future, if, of course, it does not radically restructure its foreign policy, which is unlikely, but it is possible
  12. scientist
    scientist 14 October 2013 09: 54
    +5
    The slowdown in economic growth is due to the fact that the United States and the West have continuously fueled wars in dozens of countries in Africa and Asia over the past few years, thereby forcing China and Russia to significantly increase defense spending. A military association will not only significantly increase military potential and reduce costs, but also eliminate the consequences of American intervention in the Asia-Pacific region and begin the peaceful process of resolving military conflicts.
  13. dimon-media
    dimon-media 14 October 2013 10: 02
    +2
    After reading the article, I was struck by the idea that some experts deliberately sow panic with negative forecasts for the development of the PRC and RUSSIA. The United States is blown away and it is simply vital for it to hinder the economic and any cooperation between China and Russia. In my opinion, these are gestures of despair. The US has lost its dominant position forever. If a default occurs on October 17, this will be the last nail in the lid of the United States coffin.
    1. Basarev
      Basarev 14 October 2013 12: 54
      +2
      We won’t be bored. Remember, what kind of drunkenness did the United States bring after the collapse of the USSR? And we will dance on bones the same way.
      1. dimon-media
        dimon-media 14 October 2013 13: 03
        +1
        I'm going to a tavern that day (100%) laughing
      2. F117
        F117 15 October 2013 17: 41
        0
        We have all the distilleries waiting with great hope for this day
  14. koksalek
    koksalek 14 October 2013 10: 15
    0
    Like a wolf does not feed, he still looks at the Far East
    1. major071
      major071 14 October 2013 10: 52
      +5
      By wolf, as I understand it, do you mean China?
      Well then: How many wolves do not feed, but the elephant still has more. laughing
  15. Migari
    Migari 14 October 2013 10: 26
    +1
    In relations with other countries, Russia should first of all act in its national and interests, and be more pragmatic.
  16. Jrvin
    Jrvin 14 October 2013 10: 37
    +2
    China will not fight with Russia, it makes no sense to fight not what ... the war is primarily a blow to the economies of both countries, and China will not roll back several decades.
    1. Nayhas
      Nayhas 14 October 2013 10: 57
      +3
      Quote: Jrvin
      China will not fight with Russia

      Of course it will not, why fight, when it is possible even without war.
    2. Bober
      Bober 14 October 2013 11: 57
      +2
      Quote: Jrvin
      China will not fight with Russia, it makes no sense to fight not what ... the war is primarily a blow to the economies of both countries, and China will not roll back several decades.

      When Deng Xiaoping was asked "will China attack Russia," he replied that if Russia is strong, it will not attack. As for alliances / agreements with American "friends", no matter how many times we entered into them, it turned out as with that boot, when you realize that you entered the wrong place. For some reason, such messengers have become frequent visitors. For example, E. Luttwak came, the same speeches pushed about joining against China. Grandpa has grown old, wrote some good books, but still looks there.
      1. skeptic
        skeptic 14 October 2013 12: 27
        0
        Quote: Bober
        As for alliances / agreements with American "friends", no matter how many times we entered into them, it turned out like with that boot, when you realize that you entered the wrong place.


        good
    3. Basarev
      Basarev 14 October 2013 12: 55
      0
      And terrible power atomic strikes should not be written off. Neither Russia nor China needs the hellishly infected Amur Region
    4. Mitrich
      Mitrich 14 October 2013 15: 49
      0
      Well so he will be forced as Aloizycha in due time
    5. Walker1975
      Walker1975 14 October 2013 17: 40
      +2
      Why fight? China has a population 10 times that of the Russian Federation. Allocate 100 million and settle in Siberia, and then hold a referendum on ownership.
  17. Nayhas
    Nayhas 14 October 2013 10: 56
    +2
    The fact that Russia will be in the zone of influence of China, in my opinion, is no longer questioned by anyone in the world. The United States does not want to, but will not be able to attract Russia to the "anti-Chinese axis", we have a very large unprotected border with China. Russia will fulfill its role as China's raw material appendage and support its policy. Honestly, I see no reason for joy, we are a nominal ally for China, the time will come when our opinion will cease to be taken into account at all and the Russia-China border will become illusory. It is possible that we are not yet the main goal for them, now they are aimed at Central Asia, but China will not leave us without "attention", but we have absolutely nothing to oppose to this.
    1. BBM
      BBM 14 October 2013 11: 06
      -1
      Quote: Nayhas
      The US does not want to, but will not be able to attract Russia to the "anti-Chinese axis"

      let's just say, but do you have a desire to play the role of a fighter in the forward detachment on the sidelines of a foreign war ??? Or, all the same, you prefer to creep in somehow, even with the risk that the sides will be picked up - but then the head on your shoulders and face will remain less or less intact.
      It may seem humiliating to some, but the most indicative example here is Vichy France, which suffered the least in WWII and suffered at least material losses (less than the United States) and in the end got into the "winners", even though it was true with de Gaulle's cockade. On this occasion, I recall the semi-anecdotal case of the signing of the surrender - examining the signature of de Tassigny, one of the German generals expressed considerable surprise - "how did these Frenchmen also defeat us?"
      1. Nayhas
        Nayhas 14 October 2013 11: 27
        +1
        Quote: BBM
        let's just say, but do you have a desire to act as a fighter of the advanced detachment on the sidelines of a foreign war?

        Absolutely not, we don’t need this, therefore it’s advisable to maintain neutrality because China may try to drag us into a future conflict on its side, but we need it to hell ... China wants to put its phalluses on the United States and a coalition of Asian states such as Kazakhstan, the DRV , Japan and Indonesia, please, but we don’t need to be pulled in.
    2. Gunsmith
      Gunsmith 14 October 2013 12: 24
      +1
      Squint is opposed. Have you ever wondered why the Chinese withdrew from Damansky at 24 hours?
    3. Jrvin
      Jrvin 14 October 2013 13: 21
      0
      Hm, a controversial opinion, if you notice China is actively climbing into Africa now because there are not enough resources there and are not expensive ... Transbaikalia lands are not as attractive in terms of housing (in some places potato grows with difficulty), as more in terms of resources. .. so I know what I'm saying (I live in the Trans-Baikal Territory)
      1. Mitrich
        Mitrich 14 October 2013 15: 48
        0
        Well Duc it in Africa hands and spank and quite successfully
      2. Nayhas
        Nayhas 14 October 2013 22: 54
        0
        Quote: Jrvin
        Hm, a controversial opinion, if you notice China is actively climbing into Africa now because there are more resources and are not expensive ...

        China has enough forces both in Central Asia and Africa, while success in Central Asia is much better than in Africa.
        Quote: Jrvin
        The lands of Transbaikalia are not so attractive in terms of housing (in some places potato grows with difficulty), as more in terms of resources ... I already know what I'm saying (I live in the Transbaikal Territory myself)

        China took away from Tajikistan the "disputed" regions in the Pamir region, where, according to the Tajiks themselves, it was impossible to live, much less to engage in agriculture. Despite this, a massive resettlement of Chinese began to those areas, who settled down on these seemingly unsuitable lands and began to take good harvests. Moreover, Rahmon "leased" to the Chinese the rest of the disputed land, which the Chinese allegedly abandoned and now the Chinese live and work there, again surprising the locals with their harvests. Moreover, the Chinese have penetrated further into Tajikistan, dumping the labor market with illegal migration. The paradox is that while they are plowing in the Russian Federation, Chinese migrant workers are working for Tajik guest workers!
        So the allegedly not the ability of the Chinese to live in the difficult conditions of Siberia and the Far East is nothing more than a myth, they live in worse conditions, especially when the party orders.
    4. washi
      washi 14 October 2013 15: 12
      +1
      Quote: Nayhas
      The fact that Russia will be in the zone of influence of China, in my opinion, is no longer questioned by anyone in the world. The United States does not want to, but will not be able to attract Russia to the "anti-Chinese axis", we have a very large unprotected border with China. Russia will fulfill its role as China's raw material appendage and support its policy. Honestly, I see no reason for joy, we are a nominal ally for China, the time will come when our opinion will cease to be taken into account at all and the Russia-China border will become illusory. It is possible that we are not yet the main goal for them, now they are aimed at Central Asia, but China will not leave us without "attention", but we have absolutely nothing to oppose to this.

      Or maybe the other way around?
      Or can our history, remade by Western historians, be restored? At the same time, Chinese, Japanese, written by the Jesuits.
  18. major071
    major071 14 October 2013 11: 00
    +8
    While Russia is firmly, despite all the crises, still standing on its feet, each of the parties will try to lure it to its side, using all means, both political and economic. The main thing here is not to relax, otherwise it can fly to the fullest from both current friends and hypothetical enemies. hi
    1. Nayhas
      Nayhas 14 October 2013 11: 28
      +1
      Quote: major071
      The main thing here is not to relax, otherwise it can fly to the fullest from both current friends and hypothetical enemies.

      I mean the same...
  19. rpek32
    rpek32 14 October 2013 11: 07
    +2
    The United States, represented by the Secretary of the Treasury, may declare a default — that is, the state’s inability to repay debts, including external ones.

    It’s strange. When you can’t repay the loan, a specially trained person arrives and takes your things from home. Let the machines, equipment, technologies and so on and so forth be taken from America.
  20. pahom54
    pahom54 14 October 2013 11: 32
    +3
    Unfortunately, despite the current weakening of the US position, Russia at the present stage cannot claim a leading global role (despite the already gained or returned international weight) - both the economy and the level of equipment of the Armed Forces, the training of personnel still do not allow us for the role of "world hegemons", however ... I would like to strive for this.
    The China-Russia tandem (alliance) would do much to push the US to the sidelines of international leadership. In this case, Russia, using the Jesuit policy of Lenin's grandfather, should be friends with those who will help "dump" the United States from the role of hegemon and gendarme. China, India, Iran - these are the sworn friends of the United States ...
    The fact that Russia, as noted above by comrades, will one day find itself in the zone of China's claims is not surprising. If we recall the events of the late 60s of the last century, then we have already fought, and now there is a "peaceful" development by China of our Far East ... BUT Russia cannot quarrel with China !!! All sane people should understand this. Therefore, it is better for the time being to be friends and to solve their operational-tactical, as well as strategic tasks.
  21. pahom54
    pahom54 14 October 2013 11: 32
    +3
    Unfortunately, despite the current weakening of the US position, Russia at the present stage cannot claim a leading global role (despite the already gained or returned international weight) - both the economy and the level of equipment of the Armed Forces, the training of personnel still do not allow us for the role of "world hegemons", however ... I would like to strive for this.
    The China-Russia tandem (alliance) would do much to push the US to the sidelines of international leadership. In this case, Russia, using the Jesuit policy of Lenin's grandfather, should be friends with those who will help "dump" the United States from the role of hegemon and gendarme. China, India, Iran - these are the sworn friends of the United States ...
    The fact that Russia, as noted above by comrades, will one day find itself in the zone of China's claims is not surprising. If we recall the events of the late 60s of the last century, then we have already fought, and now there is a "peaceful" development by China of our Far East ... BUT Russia cannot quarrel with China !!! All sane people should understand this. Therefore, it is better for the time being to be friends and to solve their operational-tactical, as well as strategic tasks.
  22. SAG
    SAG 14 October 2013 11: 40
    +2
    An alliance even with the devil is better than with the Anglo-Saxons! am
  23. Bober
    Bober 14 October 2013 11: 45
    +2
    [quote = BBM] In the event of the collapse of the dollar empire, China will rake inexorably nishtyakov. [/ quote
    ]
    China needs to dump the savings it has accumulated in recent years. Therefore, China buys all possible resources very often at inflated prices. When the paper is thrown off, then they will not care what currency the Americans choose. You can start from a new sheet. In the meantime, requests such as "hold out still" mean that the Chinese have a lot of paper and not everything that was planned has been bought.
    1. BBM
      BBM 14 October 2013 12: 24
      +3
      here you often reproach the Americans for excessive materialism and other sins. And you do not see logs in your eye. Because such a position can only be EXCLUSIVELY stupid little crooks and traders from the roster stole a ruble loss for a thousand. YOUR printing press covers any losses in the event of the burning of dollar savings, regardless of the number of dollars in the bins of the Chinese. Yes, even though there is a trillion - this is not the price for the ability to print world currency. As Dzhugashvili did not understand this in 1944 when he signed the Bretton Woods agreement, so the current cheers also do not understand this.
    2. Gunsmith
      Gunsmith 14 October 2013 12: 30
      0
      Strongly said! Respect!
    3. sub307
      sub307 14 October 2013 12: 55
      0
      There's something about it.
  24. andrei332809
    andrei332809 14 October 2013 11: 46
    +3
    The White House administration hoped that South Korea would announce Seoul’s readiness to enter into negotiations, but expectations did not materialize. “Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak has also eroded hopes for a trade agreement,” the publication points out.

    all the Yankes are thrown. even the most devoted apologists scatter. Only Japs grabbed hold of a dryuchba with amers. But you can understand them, how many "their" islands are not given to them by different countries
    1. pahom54
      pahom54 14 October 2013 12: 03
      +2
      I would like to add that Russia’s alliance with China is also good today - I’ll remind you that actually, oddly enough, we are still at war with Japan (a peace treaty has not been signed between us since 1945 !!!), although we are cooperating economically. Japan claims to be the Russian islands, at the same time it has territorial conflicts with the PRC ... So, think, in this matter, the interests of the PRC and Russia are common ...
      1. Bober
        Bober 14 October 2013 12: 20
        0
        The Chinese need to go to the Pacific much faster than they can do it now, and not go around the Philippines with Indonesia. The Americans and Yaps will in every way close them, and continental alliances are always strong between continental countries, and maritime between sea.
      2. Nikolaitch
        Nikolaitch 16 October 2013 20: 19
        0
        (the peace treaty between us since 1945 has not been signed !!!),

        The signing or absence of any contract is just a formality. Strong do not touch, it is customary to be friends with them. Therefore, all the time to be on the alert, work tirelessly and not rely on any signed agreements. In addition to contracts for the supply of modern weapons in the Republic of Armenia. hi
    2. Bober
      Bober 14 October 2013 12: 14
      0
      Nothing personal, just business. Asians will not forgive them lowering in the late 2000s and Mr. Soros + stuffing information in the media that Korean concerns are not doing so well. After that, many Korean brands began to be Korean to a much lesser extent than before.
  25. catapractic
    catapractic 14 October 2013 12: 33
    +1
    RF plus China minus the USA - 1 step, then minus the RF-2 step. Russia has 2 allies - the ARMY and the Navy, the rest is only temporary companions
  26. Gl00mDaem0n
    Gl00mDaem0n 14 October 2013 12: 39
    +1
    It is a pity that the analysis of the USA itself fell out of the review ... their development model is so successful, etc.
  27. tennis
    tennis 14 October 2013 12: 40
    +3
    Until Russia and China jointly break the neck of the United States, there can be no confrontations between these countries. The fact that the Americans themselves want to pass off wishful thinking and pit us against each other, well, it’s not harmful to dream. Regarding the IMF forecasts. What kind of office is this and what kind of experts there are we know well from the 90s. If Russia had followed the advice of these "experts" to the end, we would have gone down the drain long ago, to the delight of these benefactors.
    1. mikkado31
      mikkado31 15 October 2013 00: 23
      0
      May you not turn the neck of the USA, do not hope. Firstly, the Chinese are not profitable at all. Secondly, they, unlike you, have no unresolved historical conflicts with the United States. The Chinese are smarter than Russians, they think in the future. They need a raw materials appendage to support their bloated industry, and Russia willingly agreed to play this role.
    2. peter_shchurov
      peter_shchurov 15 October 2013 00: 29
      0
      Quote: tennis
      Until Russia and China join forces to curl the neck of the United States


      oh, these attempts to give out wishful thinking ...
      What are a couple of reasons that would force China to do it TOGETHER with Russia?
  28. repytw
    repytw 14 October 2013 13: 29
    0
    It’s too early for Russia to make any choice until the army is re-equipped, the gold and foreign exchange reserves are accumulated, so we can understand Putin’s flirting with both China and the United States. But after 2020, it seems to me that Russia will be able to take a worthy position against the backdrop of the US and China gnawing and being weakened by the crisis, then it will be possible to declare itself by playing its own game as a nuclear umbrella. How China will look at us when Onishchenko imposes a ban on Chinese goods to push our interests. winked
  29. Bober
    Bober 14 October 2013 13: 45
    +2
    Quote: BBM
    here you often reproach the Americans for excessive materialism and other sins. And you do not see logs in your eye. Because such a position can only be EXCLUSIVELY stupid little crooks and traders from the roster stole a ruble loss for a thousand. YOUR printing press covers any losses in the event of the burning of dollar savings, regardless of the number of dollars in the bins of the Chinese. Yes, even though there is a trillion - this is not the price for the ability to print world currency. As Dzhugashvili did not understand this in 1944 when he signed the Bretton Woods agreement, so the current cheers also do not understand this.

    VVM, I ask you to forgive me generously, but your post cannot be addressed to me, especially in the form of the adjective "often", because I registered only today. wink Anyway. Maybe I got something wrong with the buttons. Regarding the machine and the Chinese, I just meant the dumping of the ALREADY existing paper pulp. It is from the moment this mass is dropped that the Chinese will not care. Not yet. Both of these subjects are hanging over the abyss, only one hanging holding onto the eggs of the other. When he gets from these organs to the rope itself, where he is firmly hooked, then you can tickle the Chinese "under the arms" of Uncle Sam. At the expense of the printing press, when I studied this issue several years ago, I was amazed why the US had less money in the reserve fund than some Greece (I can confuse the country, it was a long time ago). Then I saw that they did not need it (the fund in FIG), and precisely because of this copier. Fund for suckers. The United States itself, to some extent, can be used to judge the trust in the papers on the part of others.
  30. Polovec
    Polovec 14 October 2013 13: 50
    +1
    Good article. However, all the same, the main idea for Russia, as it seems to me, should be the idea of ​​its own development. Well, I do not believe in any allied assurances. At some point, China is on the way with us. This does not make it less dangerous for us in the future. Only own progress in the economy and armament will give at least some sort of guarantee. The Americans believe that in ten years we destroyed ourselves and this idea, in the light of domestic political events in the country, I personally do not see as delusional today. Russia has always been able to fight external enemies. What to do with internal? Especially if they seized power ...
  31. washi
    washi 14 October 2013 15: 17
    +1
    The Russia-Chin Union was, is and will be. There was and is not an official delimitation of borders and territories.
    Those who want to quarrel with China are accomplices of the Anglo-Saxons and Jewish capital
  32. GREAT RUSSIA
    GREAT RUSSIA 14 October 2013 15: 47
    0
    The weakness of China's economy is dependent on exports. Therefore, the level of export directly affects the level of GDP growth. Now China has begun focusing on the domestic market to reduce the threat from the United States.
  33. Ihrek
    Ihrek 14 October 2013 16: 44
    0
    The military-political union of Russia and China is a nightmare for the United States and its minions. At the same time, it would be a new pole around which many countries would unite.
  34. shtanko.49
    shtanko.49 14 October 2013 23: 44
    0
    Quote: Vasya
    Quote: shtanko.49
    China is self-sufficient, it has a very powerful domestic market, with such a base, it will survive any global crisis. And over the past 20 years, it has become obvious that planned social economics are much more viable than the vaunted capitalist economy, they just fooled our brains with gentlemen who made it easier to fill their pockets, and any crime justifying it with business, it’s very doubtful. And why did it become better for those who create everything with their own hands, for which reforms were needed. that destroyed the country.

    China depends on everyone. To the big side of us. It is our lead development for China. The Chinese were still labor force and traders

    China's copying of our military technology costs us billions of dollars in losses. For example, in Turkey, almost all of Africa, etc.
  35. mikkado31
    mikkado31 15 October 2013 00: 06
    +1
    Letter Sun N. Ivanova Chairman of the Council of Ministers of the USSR A.N. Kosygin. 1969
    Ivanov Vsevolod Nikanorovich, member of the Writers' Union. Khabarovsk

    Dear and dear Alexei Nikolaevich!

    I had a chance to live in China for 23 years, I know China, wrote books about China. I returned to the Soviet Union in 1945, and in my conversations about China from that time I expressed and predicted what we now see there, unfortunately.

    You are an infinitely busy person, and therefore let me take your attention for a short time. In China, I once enjoyed the trust and attention of General D.L. Horvat, the head of the China-East Railway. - the smartest man, an honest Russian patriot, who shared his experience with me in China. When we parted, his last words were:

    "Tell me there, in Moscow, from me, if you get there, that the main thing is that they do not believe the Chinese in any agreements, if these agreements cannot be reliably backed up. In my practice, the Chinese do not hold any agreements."

    Dozens of years have passed since then - but I keep checking the facts that old Horvat was right. "
    1. BBM
      BBM 15 October 2013 02: 14
      +1
      Quote: mikkado31
      "Tell me there, in Moscow, from me, if you get it, that the main thing is that they do not believe the Chinese in any agreements, if these agreements cannot be reliably backed up. In my practice, the Chinese do not hold any agreements

      You might think the United States is holding. just do such a thimble still look ...
  36. mikkado31
    mikkado31 15 October 2013 00: 12
    +1
    Somewhat unexpected, at least for the inhabitants of the European part of Russia, the statement was made on June 9 by Professor of the Altai State Agrarian University, Doctor of Philosophy Andrei Ivanov. A teacher participating in international student conferences in the Altai Republic, which attracts students from Russia, China, Kazakhstan and Mongolia, said that in Chinese history textbooks Western Siberia up to the Tomsk region is considered as the "lost lands" of China, Regnum reports ...

    International student meetings are regularly held under the auspices of the regional organization "Our Common Home Altai". According to Ivanov, such events are very useful for all participants - during the discussions, it is possible to discuss many acute problems, while students are much more tolerant and more open to dialogue than most current government officials.

    At one of these meetings, according to Andrei Ivanov, a Russian student shared her concerns about the possible expansion of the Chinese into Russia, in particular, into Siberia.

    In response, a Chinese student said that this perspective needs to be taken calmly: "We are a growing nation, and we really will come here sooner or later." “Later it turned out,” Ivanov said, “that the Chinese history textbooks say that Western Siberia, including the Tomsk region, is temporarily lost Chinese territories.”

    Indeed, in the historiography of China there are separate areas that pay great attention to territorial issues and the problems of the evolution of the borders of China. In different periods of history, these scientific schools either gain or lose their popularity.

    So, some researchers believe that the territorial issue with Russia has not been settled so far, and some of the territories now part of the Russian Federation and Kazakhstan were once captured by the Russian Empire from China.
  37. mikkado31
    mikkado31 15 October 2013 00: 15
    0
    200 million Chinese are ready to leave the PRC for Russia. Vyacheslav Postavnin, Deputy Director of the Federal Migration Service of the Russian Federation, told Press Line about this. According to him, a large flow of migrants may also be associated with China's policy of squeezing its citizens out of the country. "There are a number of countries that pursue a policy of squeezing their citizens into other states. This applies not only to China. China itself is developing economically. It's just that there is an excess population. Now about 200 million Chinese are ready to come to Russia to work. This is 56 million more According to our estimates, Russia needs only one million legal migrants a year. This problem cannot be solved alone. It must be addressed at the international level, "said Vyacheslav Postavnin, Deputy Director of the Federal Migration Service of the Russian Federation.

    Now the special Russian-Chinese commission is in charge of regulating the migration process. In addition, under Russian law, regions have the right to establish quotas for migrants even by citizenship.
  38. Glory333
    Glory333 15 October 2013 02: 13
    0
    "Russia and China have exhausted their current growth models."

    and the Chinese economy - by 7% versus 9,6%.

    It's just some kind of schizophrenia, 7% growth means doubling the economy in 10 years - wow exhaustion!
    The union of Russia and the United States in general is nonsense, the Americans (along with the EU mongrels) in a few years will introduce sanctions against Russia for violating the rights of sodomites - you will see :)
  39. Ols76
    Ols76 15 October 2013 03: 11
    0
    An alliance between Russia and China can only benefit Russia!
    1. Walker1975
      Walker1975 15 October 2013 11: 14
      +1
      Not Russia with China, but China can temporarily use Russia as an ally. You need to be more modest. Here you are bullying your nose in front of Ukraine having a population of 3 times more, and China has a population of 10 times more than Russia, can allocate more immigrants to Siberia than the entire population of the Russian Federation and will not really notice. It can produce almost everything, but Russia can do nothing (except for the remnants of the space industry and the military-industrial complex, and judging by the constant accidents there are enough problems).
  40. revers-trotil
    revers-trotil 15 October 2013 08: 04
    0
    China, in the event of default of America, has a way out: the nationalization of American companies in China.
  41. ZU-23
    ZU-23 15 October 2013 09: 28
    0
    in the end, we will share the world with China without problems, so that all these American nonsense for nothing.
    1. Walker1975
      Walker1975 15 October 2013 11: 22
      +1
      Rather, it will be said that China will keep the world, and Russia will supply it cheaply and serve as reserve territory for migrants. It is enough to compare the size of the population of China and Russia, a list of what China and the Russian Federation can produce. So you have to be more modest.