Military Review

Theft is a sure sign of the presence of the US Navy

69
Theft is a sure sign of the presence of the US Navy



Citizens, beware !!!

Theft is the most frequent crime of the present time in investigative and judicial practice, the subject of which can be any property, even hidden under a multi-kilometer water column.
Do not leave documents and valuables on the seabed, use secure communication lines, and never, I emphasize, NEVER throw fragments of sea, missile and aviation technicians. All missiles lost, sunken ships and aircraft falling overboard should be immediately discovered, evacuated or blown up on the spot.

Otherwise, all this will become the prey of the enemy.

Project Azorian

The fact that the CIA, together with the naval intelligence of the United States, is hunting for the wreckage of Soviet technology, became known in the middle of the 1970's. In the open press appeared shocking facts related to the rise of the sunken Soviet boat with a nuclear weapons on board. History with the rise of K-129 was presented with a great deal of pomp; it was emphasized that the American naval engineers had accomplished the impossible - they raised a bulky steel structure from the depth of 5600 meters.

But why did the CIA need to raise the destroyed nose of the Soviet submarine? The answer is simple - the Yankees were literally interested in everything: from steel of durable hull to torpedoes with nuclear warheads, D-4 ballistic missiles, cryptographic equipment, and other secret equipment aboard a strategic cruiser. Technologies from the submarine were supposed to "shed light" on the state of the Soviet military-industrial complex.

One of the most important stages of the operation to lift the Soviet boat, which received the code designation “Project Azorian”, was the exploration of the ocean floor in the area of ​​the death of K-129, determining the location and state of the wreckage of the sunken boat. The works should be carried out with maximum secrecy, without the involvement of ordinary oceanographic vessels - otherwise, it could attract the attention of the Soviet Navy.

The reconnaissance of the site of the tragedy was carried out by a special-purpose nuclear submarine USS Halibut (SSN-587) - a former missile carrier converted into a military oceanographic ship. Instead of rocket weapons, the Halibat was equipped with side thrusters, bow and stern mushroom anchors, a diving camera, side and long range side sonars, and also towed by an automatic bathyscaphe with a video camera and a powerful searchlight for work at depths exceeding the capabilities of a durable boat hull.


USS Halibut (SSN-587)

While underwater, Halibat for several months surveyed the bottom of the Pacific Ocean in the area of ​​the alleged death of K-129. Finally, in one of the motion pictures from the camera of the bathyscaph, an object resembling a steering wheel was seen. In total, “Halibat” took several thousand pictures of a submarine lying at the bottom:

“One photo-band shocked even Commander Moore, a man with steel nerves,” he saw on the imprints the skeleton of a Russian sailor dressed in a stormy raglan, quilted pants and heavy naval boots. Thousands of tiny sea worms swarming in the remains of a submariner "

- from the book "The game in the blind man's buff. Unknown history of American underwater espionage"

According to the data obtained from the Khalibat PLA, it was decided to raise the bow of the K-129 with a length of 138 feet (42 meters), where the instruments, mechanisms and weapons most interesting to American intelligence were located.
Further work to raise the wreckage was carried out with the help of a specially constructed ship “Glomar Explorer” - the wreckage of the Soviet boat was retrieved to the surface of the 12 August 1974 of the year, six years after her death.


Through the sliding doors in the bottom of the ship "Glomar Explorer", a submersible grip was put forward, capable of lifting objects from 4250 tons in weight from the bottom

In the case of K-129, the leadership of the USSR made a reckless mistake - the loss of the missile carrier was highly classified, the boat and its crew were expelled from the Navy lists in hindsight, thereby literally leaving the submarine cruiser as "unowned property".

If the USSR had declared the tragedy, according to the accepted international maritime rules, the Yankees would not have risked touching the declared war grave, and if they had taken the risk, this could later provoke a major international scandal. Americans would have to return part of the stolen property, thereby helping us in disclosing the mystery of the death of K-129.

Underwater special operations squad

It is noteworthy that the search operation for the K-129 wreckage took place in official documents as “the search for a Russian ballistic missile at the bottom of the Pacific Ocean” - such operations for American submariners were so common. The famous Khalibat PLA regularly crawled through the landfills of the USSR Navy and, like a real scavenger, collected fragments of found anti-ship and ballistic missiles (engine, electronics, fuel samples), examined the sunken targets for their damage, dismantled the fancy equipment. The data on ballistic missiles dropped into the sea were recorded by radars of surface ships and aircraft, as well as underwater hydrophones with an accuracy of up to 1-2 miles.

For example, in 1967, an American submarine stole two inert mines from exercises in the Gulf of Peter the Great (Vladivostok), exposed during the test fleet The main inspection of the Ministry of Defense. The case received wide public response in the West - samples of stolen Soviet weapons were openly displayed at an exhibition in New York.

In the spring of 1976, a special operation “Blue Sun” was conducted - a group of military divers examined the crash site of the Tu-95M, which crashed off the coast of Sakhalin. At that time the submarine returned with rich trophies: among the wreckage of the bomber were found two "red heads" (nuclear warheads).

“In those years, American submarines, one might say, were grazing even in the Gulf of Peter the Great. It got to the point that they photographed our sea parades and beauties on the beach of Vladivostok with a periscope. ”

- former deputy. Chief of Intelligence of the Pacific Fleet Rear Admiral A. Shtyrov

In October, 1971, the “Khalibat” was sent to the Sea of ​​Okhotsk with the next task of “detecting ballistic missile fragments”. This time it was necessary to find at the bottom a secret communications cable connecting the base of strategic missile carriers in Krasheninnikov Bay (Kamchatka Island) with the command centers of the Soviet Navy on the continent. A year later, the Khalibat returned to the territorial waters of the Soviet Union and installed the Kokon, an autonomous reconnaissance container with a radioisotope RTG as an energy source, on the found submarine cable.


"Cocoon". Its technical parameters: weight - 7 tons, length - 5 meters, diameter - 1200 mm, the number of controlled cable channels - up to 60.

Thanks to the “golden vein”, many secrets of the service of Soviet submariners were revealed: information on combat patrols of the SSBN - the schedule, number and type of boats, patrol routes, as well as information on the results of testing missiles at the Kura range.

The reconnaissance system worked like a watch - the “Halibat” regularly, every few months, came to the “point” to remove and replace the tapes with recorded information. For convenience, the hull was equipped with special “skis” so that it could gently lie on the ground next to the cable without endangering the lives of working divers (during one of the previous hikes an incident occurred - the crew did not hold the “Halibet” at a given depth, and the boat she began to emerge abruptly, dragging behind her people chained to the boat with air hoses).

In the campaigns, the “Halibat” covered two multipurpose submarines - the first directly provided the reconnaissance's safety, the second distracted the Soviet anti-submarine forces.

Built in the 1950s, the low-speed Halibat could no longer meet the needs of naval intelligence, in the 1975 it was replaced by the SeaWolf (SSN-575), and later the newest boats for special operations Brocade (USS Parche SSN -683) and "Richard Russell" (USS Richard B. Russell SSSN-687) based on the Stugegen atomic multipurpose submarine.


USS Parche Special Operations SSA (SSN-683) off the coast of Hawaii
The underwater vehicle attached to the hull is clearly visible, as well as an additional compartment of radio equipment behind the cabin

In addition to the re-equipped nuclear-powered ships, the Navy’s special purpose search squad included the Trieste II submersible submersible and several mini-submarines.

In 1980, Brocade installed reconnaissance "cocoons" on cables in the Barents and White Seas. The situation was extremely successful. The only thing that the Yankees did not know was that their vile plans were known in advance by Soviet intelligence thanks to the NSA employee, the traitor Robert Pelton. Recently, the KGB played with the NSA in the "radio game", transmitting outright disinformation via submarine communication cables.

The end of all this comedy came in 1982 year - while working with a container in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk, SeaWolf carelessly maneuvered and leaned all its weight on the submarine cable. The divers of the USSR Navy immediately arrived at the place - considering the accumulation of diving and oceanographic ships on satellite images, the Yankees were very surprised - how quickly the Soviets found a place to lay the cocoon!

The Cocoon was dismantled and delivered to one of the USSR military research institutes. Former NSA officer Robert Pelton was exposed in the 1985 year and sentenced to three life sentences.

Another “cocoon”, raised from the bottom of the Barents Sea, was once shown at the KGB Museum.

The story had a limited sequel in 1994, when, according to unverified rumors, the US Navy officer Daniel King handed over to the Russian Embassy a disk with data of wiretapping of submarine communication cables of the Soviet Navy. In 2001, King was released in the courtroom for lack of corpus delicti.


USS Parche (SSN-683). Last time at sea

Nuclear submarines "R. Russell and Brocade were excluded from the fleet and scrapped in 1994 and 2004 respectively.

In this chronicle of operations "Convolvulus" and "Acetone" for listening to the submarine cables can be considered finished.

Boat with an "aspen" waist

In February, the USN Jimmy Carter multipurpose nuclear submarine (SSN-2005), the third and last ship of the SeaWolf type ("sea-wolf") *, was accepted into the US Navy.

* A new generation of submarines, unrelated to the previously mentioned USS Seawolf (SSN-575), built in the middle of 1950's

Not a single American submarine has been built for so long (more than 5 years since its inception) and not a single submarine in the world has cost so much - an exorbitant price was paid for Carter - 3,2 billion dollars in prices 10-year-old!

The audience present at the ceremony immediately noticed that there was something wrong with the boat. Unusually lengthening the body - "Carter" is longer than its sister-spikes almost 30 meters!


USS Jimmy Carter (SSN-23)

The length of the ship betrayed its main secret - the "Carter" is not a simple SeaWolf type submarine. This is a multi-purpose oceanographic complex Multi-Mission Platform (MMP), created on the basis of a conventional submarine. The decision to re-equip the Carter into a special purpose boat was made too late - the hull had already been laid down at the GE Electric Boat shipyard. We had to make changes to the finished structure - this is precisely the reason for the two-year delay in adopting the extremely high cost of the boat.

In the middle of the robust hull an additional section in the form of an hourglass is welded. Thanks to this arrangement, a solid “cavity” was formed between the outer skin and the robust hull to accommodate the Ocean Interface complex - deep-sea bathyscapes, mini-submarines, automatic underwater vehicles for conducting reconnaissance, search and neutralization of mines, etc. tasks. Here is the airlock chamber for the exit of combat swimmers and various diving equipment. There is a space for the placement of inflatable boats, ammunition and ammunition for "sea seals" or a transport container for bulky "samples" of enemy weapons, picked up from the seabed by caring hands of divers.

That's right - now “SeaWolf” has taken the honorable place of “sea scavengers”, instead of written off “Partche” and “R. Russell.


How MMP works

As for the use of the boat in battle as a multi-purpose submarine, the Americans only restrainedly smile and repeat the learned mantra:
“The additional compartment did not affect the combat capabilities of the boat. "Jimmy Carter" retains all the combat potential of the Sea Wolff submarines

Where already there! It is known that the predecessor of "Carter" - "Parch" - after adding a similar 30-meter section ceased to keep the depth, regularly falling down. Certainly certain problems with balancing and maneuverability are also present in the "Carter".


Additional section, thrusters in the bow, in the stern for work in shallow water, the updated command center ... such is, in brief, "Jimmy Carter"

However, one should not be mistaken about the weakness of the “Carter” - the combat capabilities of its sister-thorns - “Sea Wolf” and “Connecticut” - were so great that they were immediately recorded in the submarines of the then fourth generation. Even after 20 years, the SeaWolfs remain the most powerful and most advanced multipurpose SSNs in the world. The speed and depth of immersion at the level of the best Russian submarines (powerful reactor S6W and durable housing made of steel brand HY100).

Self-noise level is quieter than Ohio: equipment depreciation, active systems for reducing vibration of a power plant, and waterjet propulsion units of the British design all played a role in increasing the secretiveness of Sea Wolves.

Detection systems? What are the only 600 hydrophones of the "Sea Wolf"! Or a multifunctional mast with video cameras, thermal imagers and a laser rangefinder - now everyone on the central post can observe the situation on the surface. Finally, the standard spherical gas and a set of towed antennas to prevent attack from the "dead zone" of the stern propeller.

Armament? Like a real assassin, the SeaWolf is equipped with a weapon with a silencer - eight 660 mm caliber torpedo tubes using the principle of torpedoes self-escape (as opposed to blowing with compressed air used on all other boats). Ammunition - 50 cruise missiles "Harpoon", "Tomahawk" or torpedoes Mk.48.
It is also possible to load up to 100 sea mines instead of part of the missile and torpedo weapons.


The center post of the boat type "SeaWolf"

It will sound not patriotic, but “SeaWolf” is perfect. The best of modern multi-purpose submarine projects that absorbed all the advantages of other types of boats. He has no weak points. One SeaWolf is worth a whole fleet, both literally and figuratively.

It is precisely because of their high cost and the excess power of the US Navy that they have refused to build further SeaWolf, limiting the series to three submarines. Preference was given in favor of cheaper Virginia - primitive replicas of the present "Sea Wolf".

The special purpose boat "Jimmy Carter" combines all the listed features of "SeaWolf", m. with the exception of underwater speed, maneuverability and working depth of the dive. This is the most dangerous underwater adversary, besides being able to deftly steal everything that lies on the seabed (as an option, everything that is in the water column). In such conditions, all projects for the placement of containers with ballistic missiles, arsenals and so on by strategic systems on the seabed become obviously meaningless - Carter will steal them the very next day.

The shelling of marine or ground targets, the landing of special forces sabotage groups, making passages in minefields, stealing from the bottom of any valuable objects, reconnaissance, reconnaissance, transportation of secret cargoes - all this with the highest level of secrecy of action. According to Rear Admiral John Davis, the capabilities of the Jimmy Carter boat open the way to the future for the fleet.




Torpedo compartment "Carter"


From the point of view of the Russian Navy, the emergence of a new threat in the form of a special purpose submarine Carter is a reason to think seriously about ensuring the safety of the submarine infrastructure and take measures to prevent new Russian technologies from falling into the hands of American specialists during tests of missile weapons ("Mace" and Co.).

At the same time, the demonstrated capabilities of Carter allow us to hope that domestic shipbuilding engineers at TsBB MT Rubin have realized the need for the presence of similar equipment in the navy and have plans to create similar submarines based on existing or new projects.

Based on:
http://www.agentura.ru/
http://www.navy.mil/
http://www.wikipedia.org/
http://www.deagel.com/
http://vpk-news.ru/
The book "The game of hide and seek. Unknown history of American underwater espionage." Authors: Sherry Sontag and Christopher Drew
Author:
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  1. Professor
    Professor 11 October 2013 09: 04 New
    10
    Why did the CIA need to lift the destroyed bow of the Soviet submarine? The answer is simple - the Yankees were literally interested in everything: from the brand of steel of a solid hull to torpedoes with a nuclear warhead, ballistic missiles of the D-4 complex, encryption equipment and other secret equipment aboard a strategic cruiser. Technology from the submarine was supposed to “shed light” on the state of the Soviet military-industrial complex.

    They were not going to lift the bow, but the whole submarine as a whole. However, the ticks could not stand it and the boat broke even when lifting. So they stayed only with the bow. There were the remains of Soviet sailors. The Americans offered the USSR to pick them up, but the USSR proudly refused. Then the Americans with all military honors buried the Soviet sailors.

    1. Delta
      Delta 11 October 2013 10: 59 New
      +1
      In the film, both the difficulties of translation and just stupid things are many frank. Craven's phrases alone touched to impossibility. In particular: "this submarine was so far away because it was one of those who did not follow orders from above." Already stupidity is utter. And: "according to one of the theories, K-129 was going to deliver a nuclear strike in Hawaii."
    2. ben gun
      ben gun 11 October 2013 11: 37 New
      +1
      I laughed for a long time at the name of an American man who covered up the CIA operation to raise a boat. His last name was Stark "kakytovich". And then briefly talks about his (Stark) life at that moment.
      Remembering the filmman the Iron Man 1,2,3 guessed where the mega inventor rich man dad Strak appeared in the movies)))) and here I was at HAHA and struck hard)
      1. combat192
        combat192 11 October 2013 16: 04 New
        +3
        Most likely the prototype of these characters was an aircraft designer and film producer, billionaire Howard Hughes.
        For most of his life, he suffered from a severe mental disorder, and at the end of his life he finally “rolled off the coils”. The CIA took advantage of this, persuading him to finance the Jennifer project, as a result of which the Glomar Explorer ship appeared.
        By the way, in the Soviet cinema the surname "Hughes" also appears. Remember the movie "Case in the box 36-80"? It was Hughes that the failed computer of an emergency American submarine was damaged.
    3. Santa Fe
      11 October 2013 16: 14 New
      +2
      Quote: Professor
      They were not going to lift the bow, but the whole submarine as a whole. However, the ticks could not stand it and the boat broke even when lifting

      Myth

      Almost a third of the Glomar Explorer vessel was occupied by the Lunar Pool 60,65 x 22,5 x 19,8 m, which served as a dock to accommodate a deep-sea capture, and then parts of a raised submarine. Filled with water, it looked like a giant swimming pool, except for the taps on every corner. From below, the pool was closed with valves with rubber seals.

      The length of the body K-129 (DEPL project 629-A) was 99 meters.

      Those. ALREADY INITIATELY it was implied that only part of the boat would be lifted - a bow piece 138 feet (42 m) long

      Glomar explorer
      1. Professor
        Professor 11 October 2013 16: 37 New
        0
        TTX is not at hand, but the boat lay on the ground whole and on an even keel. There was nothing to cut it, etc. And it just broke in the process of lifting.
        1. Santa Fe
          11 October 2013 17: 40 New
          +3
          Professor, usually you are not one of those who argue with the obvious

          60 and 99 meters - the difference is very noticeable. The K-129 building would not fit in the Glomar Explorer pool even diagonally
          Quote: Professor
          however, the boat lay on the ground whole and on an even keel

          Yeah. at a pressure of 500 tons per m2.
          Her everything was distorted, especially on an even keel))


          The American Scorpio at the Azores, (that’s why AZORIAN would be raising it), the depth is 3800 m, the boat was torn to shreds, depressed metal is visible on the stabilizers (power ribs)

          There was such a curious little picture
          1. Professor
            Professor 11 October 2013 20: 05 New
            +1
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            Professor, usually you are not one of those who argue with the obvious

            In order for it to become obvious, you need to see it with your eyes, but I have not yet looked for the performance characteristics. In this case, there is no particular need for the Americans to lie. All unanimously tell how the mites refused and it broke. The fact that she was lying on an even keel is sure at 101%. We have all the floating facilities designed to sink on an even keel. It would be simply impossible to tear it off the ground if it were not lying on board without having a cable under it. I’m the owner of a military specialty in search and rescue and emergency lifting with specialization in submarines. what kind of pressure there was no longer important at all since the depressurization occurred at a much lesser depth.
            1. Santa Fe
              11 October 2013 21: 06 New
              0
              Quote: Professor
              In order for it to become obvious, you need to see it with your eyes.

              Sometimes for this it is enough to compare the sizes
              The length of the "moon basin" on board the Glomar Explorer was 1,5 times less than the length of the boat
              Quote: Professor
              and I haven’t searched for TTX yet

              Well, look first, and then argue. (if you find anything contrary to my calculations)
              Quote: Professor
              We have all the floating facilities designed to sink on an even keel

              This is a standard requirement for ALL ships and vessels.

              But it is valid only as long as the ship’s hull is intact. In the case of K-129, it must have been torn into several parts, like Scorpio + the consequences of a settu explosion (as an option, collisions of a foreign submarine)
              Quote: Professor
              what kind of pressure there was no longer important at all since the depressurization occurred at a much lesser depth.

              The rugged case lost its tightness much earlier - perhaps even on the surface. With the submersion of the boat and increasing pressure, the boat became more and more wriggled - after all, air cavities remained inside the compartments, hermetic equipment gradually collapsed, cylinders with compressed air exploded, the inside of the torpedoes - when they reached the bottom, even destroyed the warheads of the missiles, in some places pressed the skin so that the ribs of the power set became visible, the body burst in several places, like Scorpio
            2. Santa Fe
              11 October 2013 22: 04 New
              +2
              Quote: Professor
              We have all the floating facilities designed to sink on an even keel.

              Like this phrase

              In fact, in the form in which it is said - this is nonsense. From which side they will pierce the skin - on the other side the ship will fall and sink ... If the crew is idle

              In reality, the crew’s primary task in such a situation is to MANAGE the ROLL by counter-flooding the premises of the opposite side. Let the ship settle in the bow or stern, but the roll must be removed - otherwise the overkill maneuver, the flow of water through the lapports, technological holes and portholes in the board, etc. Adventure

              This requirement is absolutely true for any ship.
              and yet yes, measures are being taken in a constructive way so that it is possible to urgently flood any room on the lower decks and reduce the heel

              But this does not apply at all to the plunging wreckage of a ship, which is also torn into several parts.
              Quote: Professor
              It would be simply impossible to tear it off the ground if it were not lying on board without having a cable under it.

              And so it was. Under it got metal "ticks" capture

              or professor believes that K-129 was raised by a powerful electromagnet? suction funnel? crane hook?

              The position of "Yamato" at the bottom
              1. Professor
                Professor 11 October 2013 22: 12 New
                0
                Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                In fact, in the form in which it is said - this is nonsense.

                Of course nonsense. Which regiment you yourself served in? wink Struggled for survivability of the ship?

                Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                And so it was. Under it got metal "ticks" capture

                Ticks like dead poultices. Their area is negligible relative to the area of ​​the bottom. Therefore, no ticks will tear off the boat lying on board at a depth of 5000 m.

                PS
                You probably don’t know why they get the cable. No, they don’t raise the object ...
                1. Alex 241
                  Alex 241 11 October 2013 22: 18 New
                  +2
                  Inspection of the drained durable building K-129.
                  Continued lifting of the bow K-129.
                  K-129 broke and the aft fell to the ground
                  One of the captures broke off.
                  Lifting device over K-129.
                  Lifting device grips
                  The wreckage of the 3rd rocket mine K-129. In the center, a strip of shock absorbers for holding a rocket in a mine is unwound.
                  K-129 lies on the ground with a raised radar detector, an antenna for detecting operating radars and a communication antenna
                  It is clearly seen that the blow came in the aft of the K-129 cabin. The 2nd and 3rd mines are destroyed.
                  K-129 was discovered by Americans at a depth of 5 meters lying on the right side.
                  1. Santa Fe
                    12 October 2013 00: 32 New
                    0
                    Quote: Alex 241
                    K-129 lies on the ground with a raised radar detector, an antenna for detecting operating radars and a communication antenna

                    An interesting point.
                    This contradicts the theory of a collision with Amer’s submarine
                    1. Alex 241
                      Alex 241 12 October 2013 00: 34 New
                      +2
                      Greetings Oleg now look for a link to the full material. http://oosif.ru/gibel-k-129pr.629a
                2. Santa Fe
                  12 October 2013 00: 30 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Professor
                  You probably don’t know why they get the cable.

                  No.
                  I can assume - to avoid "suction" to the ground
                  Quote: Professor
                  Ticks like dead poultices. Their area is negligible relative to the area of ​​the bottom. Therefore, no ticks will tear off the boat lying on board at a depth of 5000 m.

                  I think Comrade Alex gave an exhaustive comment.

                  Probably when lifting something really fell off. But not the whole "stern of the boat." This runs counter to the length of the pool aboard the Glomar Explorer
                  1. Alex 241
                    Alex 241 12 October 2013 01: 30 New
                    +1
                    http://www.mikekemble.com/misc/k129.html
                    1. Alex 241
                      Alex 241 12 October 2013 01: 35 New
                      +3
                      The Americans took camouflage measures. In the area of ​​work, the Glomar Challenger research vessel of the same type was constantly located with the Glomar Explorer. When the Glomar Explorer appeared in the proposed square in July 1974, Soviet naval intelligence did not attach due importance to this.
                      Meanwhile, the Explorer and the HMB-1 pontoon barge delivered there, intended for the transportation of installation structures and gigantic grips, began work of exceptional technical complexity. HMB-1 was drowned and brought under the Explorer shell. Then, nine-meter pipes began to go into the ocean waters, which were automatically screwed at a depth. Control was carried out by underwater cameras. In total there were 600 pipes, each weighing in a double-decker bus.
                      When there were only a few tens of meters from the boat, the chief designer of the underwater platform sat behind the control levers - there was too much temptation to become not only a theoretician, but also a performer of the climax of the operation. A grip controlled by an inexperienced hand hit the ground (the operator incorrectly calculated the distance to the boat, since he did not take into account the effect of light refraction in the water). One of the claws cracked from the impact. Nevertheless, managed to capture the K-129. The rise began.
                      Very little remained to the surface of the ocean when the damaged claw crumbled. Now the boat was held by the bow only one pair of claws. And here the unexpected happened. Hidden destruction of the hull played their role. Before the eyes of the Americans, the submarine split, and about three quarters of its hull, along with the bodies of most of the victims and ballistic missiles, began to plunge into the black ocean abyss. And suddenly a nuclear missile slipped out of this part and slowly sank. Everyone froze in horror, imagining the consequences of the explosion. But the explosion, fortunately, did not happen.
                      The bow turned out to be in the “lunar basin” - a huge compartment “Glomar Explorer”, which opens from the bottom. And then Russian reconnaissance vessels appeared and started taking pictures. The American ship anchored and sailed to the shores of the United States. And after pumping water from a huge internal hangar, specialists rushed to "production".
                      The first thing that struck the Americans was the low quality of the steel from which the hull of the boat was made. According to the engineers of the US Navy, even its thickness was not the same in all places. Climbing into the boat turned out to be almost impossible: everything was distorted and squeezed there by the explosion and cyclopean pressure of water. Mattresses of sailor beds were pressed up to 40 centimeters in length.
                      1. Alex 241
                        Alex 241 12 October 2013 01: 36 New
                        +1
                        The Americans managed to retrieve nuclear torpedoes.
                        This is how American sources describe the course of events. But they, apparently, deliberately ignore a number of issues of fundamental importance.
                        K-129 was at the bottom on an even keel and without visible damage. Why? Probably, the boat, having received some external damage at first, was filled with water compartment by compartment, and sank relatively slowly, and the pressure inside the submarine was constantly compared with the external one. Russian experts are inclined to believe that this is exactly what happened, and when it climbed, it broke exactly in the place of the hole.
                        Clyde Barlison believes that the CIA deliberately resorts to misinformation in order to hide the true picture.
                        According to K. Barlison, the K-129 at the depths collapsed, and the Navy and the US CIA knew from the very beginning, and they were about to lift the boat right away in parts. Otherwise, it is difficult to explain why the “lunar pool” on the “Glomar Explorer” has a length of just over 60 meters, while the length of the sunken submarine is almost 100 meters. She just wouldn't fit in the pool! According to Barlison, because of the publicity of the operation in 1975, the CIA had to abandon its second and third stages.
                        But then, why did the CIA decide to raise, first of all, the middle part of the boat, which was not the most valuable in reconnaissance information, where there were missiles with nuclear warheads, codes, secret devices and ship documents, and a relatively uninteresting bow in this regard? There is no answer, if you do not take into account repeated reports in the American media that during the operation "Jennifer" they lifted all parts of the boat, but reported only about the bow, where the bodies of six Soviet sailors were found.
                        They were reburied almost two months later in the Pacific Ocean, 90 miles southwest of the Hawaiian Islands. After persistent requests, the United States named the names of three identified sailors. These are the senior sonar sonar Viktor Lokhov, the senior torpedo sailor Valery Nosachev and the torpedo sailor Vladimir Kostyushko. Three of their comrades could not be identified. In October 1992, CIA Director Robert Gates, who visited Moscow, transmitted to President Yeltsin a video tape depicting the procedure for burying sailors. The service was performed in English and Russian, the national anthems of the two countries were performed, and then a container with the remains of submariners according to marine custom, they lowered into the ocean to a depth of about 4000 meters.
                      2. Santa Fe
                        12 October 2013 01: 56 New
                        0
                        Quote: Alex 241
                        These are the senior sonar sonar Viktor Lokhov, the senior torpedo sailor Valery Nosachev and the torpedo sailor Vladimir Kostyushko.

                        How? After 6 years at the bottom under tremendous pressure (even if there is no oxygen and T is about zero Celsius)
                        Letters in your pocket?
                      3. Alex 241
                        Alex 241 12 October 2013 02: 03 New
                        +1
                        There is no information about the letter.
                      4. Alex 241
                        Alex 241 12 October 2013 02: 13 New
                        +1
                        Apparently, personalities were identified by branding, in the Soviet Army an indispensable condition, the application of a full name. They were applied either with bleach or a ballpoint pen.
                3. Santa Fe
                  12 October 2013 01: 54 New
                  0
                  Quote: Alex 241
                  and about tquarter of her body with bodies most of the dead and ballistic missiles began to plunge into the black ocean abyss. And suddenly a nuclear missile slipped out of this part and slowly sank.

                  the length of the "moon pool" is only 60 meters

                  How do you explain this paradox?

                  K-129 was at the bottom on an even keel and without visible damage
                  this little contradicts your photos and information from other sources, which describe "3-meter holes", etc. horrors
                4. Alex 241
                  Alex 241 12 October 2013 02: 06 New
                  0
                  Oleg, according to information, about 22 thousand photos of K-129 were taken, but even from what we saw that the boat was on the right side.
            3. The comment was deleted.
              1. Alex 241
                Alex 241 12 October 2013 01: 55 New
                0
                Oleg, one more thing: American reconnaissance submarines several times went to the site of the death of K-129. The last time there was Sea Wolf - after Operation Jennifer. And what did she discover? A bizarre mosaic of small debris scattered along the bottom. This is all that remains of the Russian boat ... At the end of September last year, an unusual event occurred in St. Petersburg. A memorial service was served at the St. Nicholas Epiphany Cathedral for the K-129 sailors who died during the Cold War, the American submarines Tresher and Scorpion. Their relatives, Russian and American submarine veterans gathered for the funeral ceremony. Among them was Clarence Moore. After the requiem, Irina Georgievna Zhuravina, the widow of the K-129 senior commander of the 2nd rank captain Alexander Zhuravin, spoke with him. (Largely due to her courage and perseverance in our country, the matter of restoring the good memory of the K-129 crew moved from the dead center.) Of course, she was primarily interested in the details contained in the photographs obtained by Halibat. The former commander of the American submarine first pretended not to understand the questions, and then said: “Excuse me, ma'am, but I am bound by the oath. My mouth is shut. ” http://www.sovsekretno.ru/articles/id/341/
  2. Delta
    Delta 12 October 2013 00: 29 New
    0
    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
    The American Scorpio at the Azores, (that’s why AZORIAN would be raising it), the depth is 3800 m, the boat was torn to shreds, depressed metal is visible on the stabilizers (power ribs)


    Well, here it is appropriate to recall at what depth the K-219 sank. And nothing broke her pressure. Although Oleg agrees with you here, the dimensions of the "lunar basin" are smaller than the submarine, which means that they were originally going to raise a part.
  • Blackgrifon
    Blackgrifon 11 October 2013 20: 10 New
    +1
    Quote: Professor
    TTX is not at hand, but the boat lay on the ground whole and on an even keel. There was nothing to cut it, etc. And it just broke in the process of lifting.


    The professor is right. All sources describe the plans of the Americans - the rise of the entire warship.
    1. Santa Fe
      11 October 2013 21: 53 New
      +2
      Quote: Blackgrifon
      All sources describe the plans of the Americans - the rise of the entire warship.

      Reprint the same stupidity. The media is not profitable to clarify that they did not lift the entire boat, but only part ... the sensation is lost

      And the inhabitants are too lazy to look at the Glomar Explorer scheme and compare the size of the "moon basin" with the length of the boat project 629A
  • old man54
    old man54 11 October 2013 18: 43 New
    +1
    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
    Quote: professor: They were not going to lift the bow, but the entire submarine as a whole. However, the ticks could not stand it and the boat broke even when lifting.

    Myth

    no, Oleg, not a myth, alas! They lifted the whole boat, but admitted only by the bow, and everything else was classified even more. And raised in parts of course, because even from the pictures from this boat, they saw that at the site of the strike of the Amerov submarine “Fishfish” into the K-129 hull, severe destruction of the 629A project was formed. And they were more interested in SLBMs then, technologies and their analysis, so do not believe everything that they, the Yankees, write in books for general use, a colleague. hi
  • APASUS
    APASUS 13 October 2013 15: 23 New
    +1
    Quote: Professor
    There were the remains of Soviet sailors. The Americans offered the USSR to pick them up, but the USSR proudly refused. Then the Americans with all military honors buried the Soviet sailors.

    Professor you write nonsense.
    Only in October 1992, the film on which the burial of six bodies of Soviet submariners was filmed was transferred to Boris Yeltsin.
    The Americans worthily buried our submariners, but the conversation about transferring bodies could not even be hypothetically. This is direct evidence.
    1. Santa Fe
      13 October 2013 17: 43 New
      +2
      Quote: APASUS
      This is direct evidence.

      Direct evidence of what?

      The front page of the New York Times on March 19, 1975. "The CIA ship raised part of the sunken Soviet submarine"
  • Baron Wrangell
    Baron Wrangell 11 October 2013 09: 13 New
    +1
    experienced article! liked. Once again I was convinced, intelligence does not sleep, but works. The MiWulf boat is possibly good, possibly dangerous, so you need to find a good shield and a retaliatory strike on their baton.
    But stealing is not good, given the fact that they steal from under the nose of the owners.
  • Dart weyder
    Dart weyder 11 October 2013 09: 36 New
    11
    pffffff- problemma! ?? am disguise a land mine as a fragment of some secret ashtray or rocket, arrange a crash - and oops! - wait for the profit! wassat And in terms of the burial of sailors of the USSR Navy - well done, I always didn’t understand this attitude of the country's top leadership request
  • Samy
    Samy 11 October 2013 09: 57 New
    +6
    Theft is a sure sign of the presence of the US Navy

    The article is good, but the title is tendentious. As always: ours are brave scouts, theirs are insidious spies. And the secret of the nuclear bomb, and our "loshariki"? They are not thieves, they are doing their job and it is obvious that they are doing it quite effectively. We would be so ... A burial with the honors of Soviet sailors, who abandoned their state, is simply a matter of respect. Though amerov I do not like ...
    1. Dart weyder
      Dart weyder 11 October 2013 10: 26 New
      +4
      no, it’s not quite so - they are just out of the fray - but ours - in the midst of their teachings, they squeezed out the latest towed antenna, wrapping it on a screw !!!!! this is patsansky! soldier laughing
    2. Gamdlislyam
      Gamdlislyam 11 October 2013 12: 17 New
      +4
      Quote: Samy
      And the burial with honors of Soviet sailors, who abandoned their state, simply causes respect.

      Dear colleague Samy, I advise you to be critical of the information of citizen Y. Sokolov, that is, "professor." Pin-dos are a nation of "lawyers." Therefore, in order to avoid further diplomatic scandals, they (pin-dos), the discovered remains of Soviet sailors, were buried according to the tradition accepted in the Russian fleet. When ours received reliable information about the K-129 submarine, and presented them with complaints, it was then that they reported the remains, the method of burial, and as evidence they presented the burial movie.
      1. Professor
        Professor 11 October 2013 13: 33 New
        +2
        Sokolov O. for your information. And they buried them humanly, not because of fear of litigation (bullshit, they could have fed corpses in general to "crayfish" and no one would have recognized), but out of respect for themselves. Fortunately there are shots of the ceremony, otherwise people like you would shout now that there was nothing of the kind.

        Quote: Gamdlislyam
        When ours received reliable information about the K-129 submarine, and presented them with complaints, it was then that they reported the remains, the method of burial, and as evidence they presented the burial movie.

        Can you confirm your fantasies? Relatives of the victims said that the USSR generally denied this boat and the accident on it. And if the corpse is already ashore?
        1. Santa Fe
          11 October 2013 16: 21 New
          +3
          Quote: Professor
          buried in human terms not because of fear of litigation (bullshit, corpses could have been fed “cancers” in general and no one would have recognized), but out of respect for themselves. The blessing is the ceremony footage,

          It is most important!

          In addition to respect, the Yankees insured against the possible claim of Soviet diplomats - disturbing the peace of fallen soldiers. At the first diplomatic note of protest, the film was handed over to the Russian embassy (this was in 1994, when they started talking about the story of the missing boat in our country)

          And so, everything is clean - they found "ownerless property", accidentally found six bodies in the bow torpedo compartment. Buried with military honors, as expected.

          The secret burial ceremony itself was held at night, 180 miles off the coast of Hawaii

          Project 629-A boat
          1. Professor
            Professor 11 October 2013 19: 40 New
            -1
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            In addition to respect, the Yankees insured against the possible claim of Soviet diplomats - disturbing the peace of fallen soldiers. At the first diplomatic note of protest, the film was handed over to the Russian embassy (this was in 1994, when they started talking about the story of the missing boat in our country)

            Yeah, the diplomats were scared. wassat The lifting operation was so secret that even on the ship itself, few knew about the true reason for the campaign. The rest began to guess when they were given anti-radiation pills. When the bodies were discovered, the last thing that they thought was the dipreaction of the USSR. The bodies could simply hide. History leaked to the press and everyone found out about the Soviet submarine. The burial was carried out in public with the presence of a Russian priest after the USSR declared that he had not lost boats and there were no missing sailors. So there were no notes of protest, and even vice versa - taking away one's own.
          2. Blackgrifon
            Blackgrifon 11 October 2013 20: 14 New
            +2
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            In addition to respect, the Yankees insured against the possible claim of Soviet diplomats - disturbing the peace of fallen soldiers.


            I do not like the Yankees, but, nevertheless, the Professor is right - you do not think that the USSR did not know about the raising of our ship? What prevented the official request at least the bodies of sailors?
            1. Professor
              Professor 11 October 2013 20: 18 New
              0
              Quote: Blackgrifon
              What prevented the official request at least the bodies of sailors?

              Sovdepovskoy mentality and pride. They generally disowned their own.
              1. Know-nothing
                Know-nothing 12 October 2013 07: 08 New
                0
                As said http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pokrovsky_Alexander_Mikhai
                catcher (captain of 2 rank with 12 combat services on the Premier League)
                They threw, throw and will throw. They will always leave their own. She stood on that, and the Russian land will stand.
              2. Gamdlislyam
                Gamdlislyam 12 October 2013 13: 06 New
                0
                Quote: Professor
                Professor

                Quote: Professor
                Sovdepovskoy mentality and pride. They generally disowned their own.

                Citizen Sokolov O., Your pathological hatred of everything Soviet and Russia does not shock me anymore.
                However, the story of K-129 was well covered in the press by a citizen - the liberal Volkogonov (now in the best world). He dealt with the establishment of reliable facts about the disappeared (missing) of our ships, aircraft and clarification of the fate of the crews during the Cold War. In the early 90s, as a representative of the Russian Government, he had many meetings with senior officials of "sworn friends". After contacts with these “self-respecting” Volkogonov, he spoke bluntly in the army that the pin-dos didn’t say anything new, whatever our intelligence would know.
                If this liberal (who enthusiastically licked his ass) was dissatisfied with the actions of pin-dos, is it worth it to call with such persistence BLACK - white.
                1. Blackgrifon
                  Blackgrifon 12 October 2013 20: 38 New
                  0
                  Quote: Gamdlislyam
                  call BLACK - white.


                  Yes, there is no doubt in that, BUT why it was impossible to protest through diplomatic channels and demand the delivery of the discovered bodies - after all, the USSR was a Superpower?
  • Suvorov000
    Suvorov000 11 October 2013 10: 38 New
    +1
    Beautifully we wiped our nose
    1. Kasym
      Kasym 11 October 2013 18: 10 New
      +1
      Syvorov, good evening! I think we have something to wipe our noses with. They just don’t talk about it. For example, where did the English combat swimmer disappear when Brezhnev arrived in England on a military day (I don’t remember exactly, but in my opinion Brezhnev and in my opinion in England). Or the statements of our submarine captains that they saw the lights of US megacities in the scopes and almost swam into their bases.
      And on their Sea Wolf we will give them Losharikov. wink . And I think bugs are found on their cables. laughing . Only who will tell us about this?
      1. Santa Fe
        11 October 2013 18: 27 New
        +2
        Quote: Kasym
        For example, where did an English combat swimmer disappear

        Either fell under the screws of the cruiser Ordzhonikidze, or died in a fight with Soviet combat swimmers when he allegedly tried to screw a magnetic mine on the body (which is unlikely - what is the motive for the act? To blow up the cruiser, and maybe the Soviet general secretary. And what's next? Third World War ?)
        Quote: Kasym
        when Brezhnev arrived in England on a military day

        Khrushchev's visit to Portsmouth, 1956

        British sources say that Lionel Crabbe examined the screws and bottom of the Ordzhonikidze cruiser for any know-how (thrusters, etc., thanks to which the 68 bis had excellent maneuverability for its size). The disfigured body of L. Crabbe without head and arms was found in the surf in Portsmouth harbor 14 months after his disappearance
      2. old man54
        old man54 11 October 2013 18: 51 New
        0
        Quote: Kasym
        For example, where did the English combat swimmer disappear when Brezhnev arrived in England on a military day (I don’t remember exactly, but in my opinion Brezhnev and in my opinion in England).

        not Brezhnev, but Khrushchev, on the cruiser Ave. 68-bis.
      3. Blackgrifon
        Blackgrifon 11 October 2013 20: 17 New
        0
        Quote: Kasym
        And on their Sea Wolf we will give them Losharikov.


        To be precise, the “Alpha” (aka “Lyra”) - underwater fighters with a crew of up to 30 people. and a speed of over 40 knots. It is a pity the whole series was cut "into needles" for US subsidies, but the project was not developed ...
  • SIT
    SIT 11 October 2013 11: 41 New
    +4
    Damn, they regularly went to the Sea of ​​Okhotsk as to work in the office! How did they succeed ?! There is not a single strait there that cannot be controlled on our part. In the Barents Sea, I admit that they could do what they want. Although it is not clear where the communication cables went along the bottom, if all the bases are on the same shore. But how did they get into the White Sea !? There the depth in the Throat is maximum 80m. In the Dvina Bay, Severodvinsk, where at that time they built 8 boats a year and they constantly went for tests to Kandalaksha Bay to Chupa. The entire Basin was teeming with OVR ships. Is there anything under the ice in winter? So it’s enough to just have hydrophones on the Ints to detect everything that moves under water. Details would be interesting, as very great dubious ...
    1. Samy
      Samy 11 October 2013 15: 08 New
      +1
      Quote: SIT
      in, they regularly went to the Sea of ​​Okhotsk as to work in an office!

      And they still go. For the discovery of a submarine in Peter the Great Bay, the anti-submarine aircraft crew commander was almost given a Hero, which means that such a case (detection) is more likely a success, rather than a systematic work to control and protect its water area.
  • aud13
    aud13 11 October 2013 11: 58 New
    +3
    The article is interesting.
    It is a pity that ours could not raise the boat themselves - if at all they considered such an opportunity.
    It's a shame once again you meet with the facts of neglect of our leadership to ordinary people, even to their bodies.
    It turns out that the relatives of the sailors who actually gave their lives in the execution of the combat order now do not even have the opportunity to go to their grave.
    Someone’s ambitions interfere.
    It’s not humanly ...
    1. Gamdlislyam
      Gamdlislyam 11 October 2013 13: 24 New
      0
      Quote: aud13
      aud13 It’s a pity that ours couldn’t lift the boat themselves - if at all we considered such an opportunity.

      Ours did not know what happened to K-129. It was sunk by an American submarine (Collision under water, when our boat went under the snorkel). Pin-dos, knowing the place of the kotostrofy, began to search for the boat.

      Quote: aud13
      It's a shame once again you meet with the facts of neglect of our leadership to ordinary people, even to their bodies.

      Dear colleague Victor, I am forced to advise you the same thing as my colleague Samy, be critical of the information that citizen Yu. Sokolov puts in the comments, that is, “professor”.

      Quote: aud13
      It turns out that the relatives of the sailors who actually gave their lives in the execution of the combat order now do not even have the opportunity to go to their grave.

      In this case, in order to avoid further misunderstandings, I can only suggest studying the traditions of the Russian - Soviet fleet for the burial of the dead and their honor.
      1. Professor
        Professor 11 October 2013 13: 28 New
        +1
        Quote: Gamdlislyam
        It was sunk by an American submarine

        Not true. The Americans followed our boat because they knew about the crash site.

        Quote: Gamdlislyam
        Dear colleague Victor, I am forced to advise you the same thing as my colleague Samy, be critical of the information that citizen Yu. Sokolov puts in the comments, that is, “professor”.

        This is a medical fact. There was a documentary on Russian TV with an interview with relatives of the victims. Their native government did not even bother to report what happened to their relatives. Of course, for their own good. fool

        Quote: Gamdlislyam
        In this case, in order to avoid further misunderstandings, I can only suggest studying the traditions of the Russian - Soviet fleet for the burial of the dead and their honor.

        And you enlighten us. Especially if the death of a sailor occurs in peacetime, then what do they do with it?
      2. Samy
        Samy 11 October 2013 15: 01 New
        +2
        Quote: Gamdlislyam
        I can only suggest studying the traditions of the Russian - Soviet fleet for the burial of the dead


        What does the tradition of our fleet have to do with it? They raised - a fact, they buried - a fact, we did not recognize our own - a fact. Everything else is from the evil one. It is not worth it to demonize them in such a way and in every “bunch” to look for the machinations of the imperialists. Could not bury anyone at all.
        1. Gamdlislyam
          Gamdlislyam 12 October 2013 13: 25 New
          0
          Dear Samy colleague, traditions exist to fulfill them. In addition, there are also legal norms that officials must already comply with. The movie does not prove anything. It is not a confirming fact that, in accordance with Russian naval traditions, the dead sailors from the K-129 submarine were buried there (I mean specific persons). Their identification was not carried out. By the way, according to the pin-dos laws, they had to carry out this procedure (but did not, because it could violate the secrecy of the operation).
          But on the account of “non-recognition”, this is what the court does. And he did it, as required by the legislation of the USSR. Three years later, all crew members were declared dead. Alas, information about the cause of death and the place became known much later.
  • Western Faces
    Western Faces 11 October 2013 12: 44 New
    0
    “Carter” is certainly good, but in our “loshariki” I think no worse ...
  • rudolff
    rudolff 11 October 2013 13: 48 New
    +3
    Carter, a full-fledged warship, if compared, with Ave. Ash. Losharik, a deep-sea station, albeit with a nuclear power plant.
  • Growler
    Growler 11 October 2013 13: 57 New
    -8
    Quote: Professor
    The Americans offered the USSR to pick them up, but the USSR proudly refused.

    Disposable grenade launcher - disposable soldier.
  • Growler
    Growler 11 October 2013 15: 11 New
    -5
    minusers-cheers-potreots intensified ...
  • Leader
    Leader 12 October 2013 10: 32 New
    0
    It is a pity that the Russian fleet cannot boast of anything like that. And that they betray their own is true. T.N. “Kursk’s rescue operation is simply a shame for the Russian Navy. And how many were there, and how many will be ...
    (it’s ridiculous to read about the “traditions of the Russian fleet.” They would have voiced something ...)
  • Professor
    Professor 12 October 2013 16: 34 New
    +1
    Gamdlislyam
    Quote: ProfessorProfessor
    Quote: professorSovdepovsky mentality and pride. They generally disowned their own.
    Citizen Sokolov O., Your pathological hatred of everything Soviet and Russia does not shock me anymore.
    However, the story of K-129 was well covered in the press by a citizen - the liberal Volkogonov (now in the best world). He dealt with the establishment of reliable facts about the disappeared (missing) of our ships and aircraft during the Cold War. In the early 90s, as a representative of the Russian Government, he had many meetings with senior officials of "sworn friends". After contacts with these “self-respecting” Volkogonov, he spoke bluntly in the army that the pin-dos did not say anything new, whatever our
    knew from the intelligence line.
    If this liberal (who enthusiastically licked his ass) was unhappy with the actions of pin-dos, is it worth it to call BLACK - white with such tenacity.

    You are a young man, if you are publicly contacting me, please be so kind as to exclude me from my Black List so that I can see your nonsense. Take the trouble to tell us with what "honors" in 1980 the Afghan warriors were buried. If you don’t remember, I’ll remind you that in Tihar, without any honors, without even informing your parents about the causes of death. So it was taken in the scoop. All for the good of man ... sad
    1. Very old
      Very old 12 October 2013 16: 44 New
      +2
      Olezhek, dear. WERE YOU NOT A MOUNTAIN FOR CHURCHILL?
      Historical fact: the question is being discussed, where to be a legitimate Jewish State. Churchill suggested: in South Africa! To which the bloodthirsty Soso-Koba-Dzhugashvili-Stalin objected: Only in Palestine, the Bible says so! And if it weren’t for Tyrant - you should be all the usual African BANTUSTAN! Can you object?
      1. Professor
        Professor 12 October 2013 16: 53 New
        0
        Valek, honey. I like these urban legends. Cherchel and Stalin could decide what they wanted, it did not change anything. The British Empire was no longer able to hold all its territories and the Zionist movement was in a hurry. In the year 1948, Israel already existed de facto.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 1 November 2013 19: 11 New
          0
          Quote: Professor
          The British Empire was no longer able to hold all its territories and the Zionist movement was in a hurry.

          So in BV began a long period of terror

          Quote: Professor
          In the year 1948, Israel already existed de facto.

          Rather, both sides of the future conflict were in a “low start” position, periodically the genocide of representatives of the opposite side in the territories where they had the majority.
          1. Professor
            Professor 1 November 2013 20: 32 New
            0
            Quote: Spade
            So in BV began a long period of terror

            Terror began much earlier. Let us recall at least the massacre in Yafo and Hebron.

            Quote: Spade
            Rather, both sides of the future conflict were in a “low start” position, periodically the genocide of representatives of the opposite side in the territories where they had the majority.

            In Hebron, Yafo, Kfar Giladi Arabs "genocide" of the Jews. Jews settled on the legally acquired lands of no one "genocide", while simultaneously establishing universities and building hospitals and factories. I can give examples.
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 1 November 2013 21: 22 New
              0
              Definitely not genocide? And even in the Arabian bazaars they didn’t shoot a machine gun? You should read something more impartial than your own historians. The degree of hatred rose on both sides of the conflict.

              Well, about the terror, I have not heard about the terrorist attacks carried out by the Arabs against the British administration. But I heard about the Zionists. What hotel did they blow up?
              1. Professor
                Professor 1 November 2013 22: 26 New
                0
                Quote: Spade
                Definitely not genocide? And even in the Arabian bazaars they didn’t shoot a machine gun? You should read something more impartial than your own historians.

                Bazaar with a machine gun? Historians? So discard the link and read.

                Quote: Spade
                Well, about the terror, I have not heard about the terrorist attacks carried out by the Arabs against the British administration. But I heard about the Zionists. What hotel did they blow up?

                Now I understand everything. My grandfather, who beat the Fritz in the Second World War in Belarus, turned out to be a terrorist. That's just what the Zionists did terror can not even be called by definition. Terror (Latin terror - fear, horror) - intimidation of their political opponents or population, expressed in physical violence, up to destruction. The British were not political opponents and there was no British population in Palestine. You yourself know what happened ... Partisan actions against the military without a population behind them are not terror.
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 1 November 2013 23: 26 New
                  0
                  Quote: Professor
                  Bazaar with a machine gun? Historians? So discard the link and read.

                  Well, Mishka Rabinovich, his girlfriend named Dina, the house on George Fifth Avenue, an attic, a machine gun, a little market, six dead Arabs.

                  The outcome of these clashes was sad. By the end of the year, the account (it’s not clear for whose benefit) amounted to 175 dead Arabs, 150 killed Jews and 15 dead British soldiers. It can be stated that Arabs and Jews seemed to compete in bloodthirstiness and cruelty in order to increase the score on the other hand. Both were good.


                  Alexey Smirnov, "Arab-Israeli War." Historians don’t say such a thing for you, because by default yours is “all in white”, and the Palestinians are exclusively “Arab gangs,” as the representative of “Haganah” aptly called the peaceful guests of the hotel’s victims in the Semeramis hotel

                  Quote: Professor
                  Partisan actions against the military without a population behind them are not terror.

                  There it is ... But I’m wondering, did you record Bernadotte Folke in the “righteous of the world”? After all, he participated in the evacuation of Jews to Sweden. Or shy, because your noble partisans from Lehi killed this UN special representative?
                  1. Professor
                    Professor 1 November 2013 23: 38 New
                    0
                    Quote: Spade
                    Well, Mishka Rabinovich, his girlfriend named Dina, the house on George Fifth Avenue, an attic, a machine gun, a little market, six dead Arabs.

                    Why these fables? With a machine gun in the bazaar ... request

                    Quote: Spade
                    Alexey Smirnov, "Arab-Israeli War"

                    All week the Arab shepherd drove his flock of sheep from place to place. With his backing, he would either retreat or approach the nearby El Cods, while carefully examining every fold on the ground, a rocky slope or a shallow crevice.
                    It is clear what kind of historian this is, one by El Cods, but I esteem at leisure, laugh.

                    Quote: Spade
                    because by default your "all in white"

                    Not at all in white and Kfar Kana there were other unpleasant moments. But for some reason, no one is hiding it here.

                    Quote: Spade
                    There it is ... But I’m wondering, did you record Bernadotte Folke in the “righteous of the world”? After all, he participated in the evacuation of Jews to Sweden. Or shy, because your noble partisans from Lehi killed this UN special representative?

                    And where do we call extremists "noble"? That's why they are extremists and everyone knows their end, calmed down and scattered who where.
    2. i.xxx-1971
      i.xxx-1971 1 November 2013 18: 34 New
      0
      Do not you call my country a scoop
      1. Professor
        Professor 1 November 2013 18: 59 New
        0
        Quote: i.xxx-1971
        Do not you call my country a scoop

        And who should call a scoop a scoop? wink
  • Denis_469
    Denis_469 13 October 2013 13: 35 New
    0
    "That doesn't sound patriotic, but SeaWolf is perfect." - This must be immediately entered in the pearls of the site.
    When the Moose actively fought, the wolves could not be put into battle, either in repair or in testing. The only time the wolf was technically sound. So his crew did not pass the tests for admission to the military campaign and the boat was wrapped in the sea. As a result, the elk went to shoot. And the wolf remained out of work on the exercises in the Mediterranean.
    Only Virginia can be worse than a wolf. And worse than Virginia, there can only be a new Virginia.
    1. Santa Fe
      13 October 2013 17: 47 New
      +1
      Quote: Denis_469
      Only Virginia can be worse than a wolf. And worse than Virginia, there can only be a new Virginia.

      Very funny


      "Minnesota" type Virginia. The boat was built in 2,5 years
      1. Denis_469
        Denis_469 13 October 2013 18: 12 New
        +1
        Would be smart - would not laugh. He did not show his stupidity.
        This:
        http://sovpl.forum24.ru/?1-4-0-00000068-000-0-0
        http://sovpl.forum24.ru/?1-4-0-00000069-000-0-0
        And your Minnesota is beautiful only in the photograph.
        "" SSN-783 "
        Laid at the Newport News Shipbuilding factory on May 20, 2011. The caster was launched on November 3, 2012, and entered service on June 6, 2013.
        After entering into service, the beginning of inspection and testing of various equipment, which will end, almost certainly, by sending the boat for repair somewhere at the end of 2013. There is practically no reason to suppose the opposite, because a massive failure of equipment and systems was noted on all the submarines of this series that entered service earlier. And this boat is unlikely to be an exception to the rule.
        At the moment, the boat is in Norfolk and is being tested and tested.
        This is the last Virginia type II boat. "
        http://sovpl.forum24.ru/?1-4-0-00000069-000-0-0#000.001

        So less be fooled by Western propaganda. Sometimes look at the combat service of boats and their repairs. I understand that this is impossible for you, but still showing stupidity is not the best thing in this life.
        1. Santa Fe
          14 October 2013 03: 23 New
          0
          Quote: Denis_469
          which will end, almost certainly, by sending the boat for repair somewhere at the end of 2013

          it's called post shakedown availability (PSA)
          standard procedure in any fleet - identified shortcomings are eliminated.

          Do not forget - the boat was put into service a month ago

          or does someone seriously believe that a newly built huge ship with thousands of systems needs to be immediately thrown into battle? how long does it take to flaw the flaws on the K-329 (even adjusted for Russian reality)?
          Quote: Denis_469
          At the moment, the boat is in Norfolk

          Minnesota
          photo was taken in early September
  • Denis_469
    Denis_469 14 October 2013 13: 25 New
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    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
    this is called post shakedown availability (PSA) standard procedure in any fleet - identified shortcomings are eliminated.


    It's right. But only after delivery, the boat is defective for six months or a year! Then, about a year is under repair. After which another about a year is defective. As a result, after it enters service, it becomes operational in about 2,5-3 years. Unlike our boats, which are now being built for a long time, but after commissioning, after six months they can go to sea on a BS.

    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
    Minnesota photo was taken in early September

    Stands in Norfolk means that the boat did not go to the BS or to long exercises. And the fact that sometimes it goes into the sea is required for its troubleshooting. She has a bunch of defects. And the most fatal is associated with its hydroacoustics. Therefore, boats of the II series stopped building. And on boats of the III series will be already other stations. This explains the transition from one 12-container UVP to 2 6-container ones on boats of the III series.

    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
    how long does it take to flaw the flaws on the K-329 (even adjusted for Russian reality)?

    I think that I will not reveal great secrets if I say that the boat was designed with structural defects that they are trying to eliminate already at the factory. And her number is not K-329, but K-560. With her, the designers messed up great. And then no less experienced workers at the plant added more jambs.