Military Review

Russian-Estonian border treaty. Will it not work: “Oh, II! Kemskaya parish! "

162
Recently, the Russian president instructed the country's main foreign affairs agency to sign treaties concerning the final approval of the Russian-Estonian border (both land and sea). The relevant proposal of the Russian government was sent in the name of Vladimir Putin to 19 of September, and it took the president a little more than two weeks to actually accept and send the proposal to the relevant ministry - to the Foreign Ministry.
Vladimir Putin’s order is as follows:


Accept the proposal of the Government of the Russian Federation to sign an agreement between the Russian Federation and the Republic of Estonia on the Russian-Estonian state border and an agreement between the Russian Federation and the Republic of Estonia on the delimitation of maritime spaces in the Gulf of Narva and Finland.


Russian-Estonian border treaty. Will it not work: “Oh, II! Kemskaya parish! "


It should be noted that the land and sea delimitation agreements between Russia and Estonia were born quite a long time ago - in the 2005 year. Before they were born, the border between the two states was considered to be passing along a line that at one time cartographically “ran” between the Estonian SSR and the RSFSR. This line, without waiting for constructive proposals from intoxicated by the “independence” of the Estonian authorities, was carried out in Russia by 1994, however, in fact, only on paper.

About five years after Yeltsin’s decree, a new treaty on the state border between the countries came into effect, under which Russia received the right to own territories that were considered (considered) in Estonia to be controversial. It was the presence of these “disputed” territories that every time stood in the way of the demarcation procedures between Estonia and Russia. Official Tallinn not only, let us say, weakly recognized the border line, but also tried to constantly remind of the existence of the so-called Tartu (Yurievsky) agreement concluded between Soviet Russia and Estonia (Estonia) in February 1920. It is the Tartu Treaty that the Estonian authorities have in recent years tried to use as an argument for concluding a new treaty in which the issue of “disputed” territories should be resolved.

In the 2005 year, when the new treaty between Moscow and Tallinn was concluded, and the parliaments of both countries remained to ratify it, Tallinn again brought the old barrel organ with the Tartu Treaty. The Estonian authorities have unilaterally supplemented the text of the 2005 model contract of the year with references to the 1920 model contract of the year. These references fundamentally changed the essence of the border treaty, since the Estonian side could in fact at any time require the Russian Federation to fulfill a number of clauses specified in the Tartu Agreement. Saying that the Tartu Treaty has long lost any relevance and turned into nothing more than property storiesAs well as realizing that the Estonian authorities are going to turn the new agreement into a document that is convenient only for themselves, the Russian authorities have withdrawn their signatures, which were put under the 2005 contract of the year. This, in turn, led to new portions of anti-Russian demagogy on the part of the Estonian political elites. And then there was a story with the “Bronze Soldier”, which, apparently, the authorities of the Estonian state decided to avenge Moscow’s intransigence in matters of state border ... They won back who they could afford ...

Before considering the next border agreement (model 2013 of the year), you should pay attention to the very Tartu agreement that people like to remember in Estonia. This agreement was signed, as already mentioned, in 1920, and, in accordance with its provisions, Soviet Russia recognized the independence of the Estonian state. Together with this recognition, Estonia was, let's say, granted land areas of substantial size.

Here is a list of territories that were ceded to the Estonian state after signing and ratifying the treaty on 1920 (Soviet Russia, by the way, ratified that treaty three days after its signing, the Estonian side thought a week longer ...):

the territory of the now Russian Pechora region (together with the Russian population that prevailed here);

the right-bank areas of the Narva River to Lake Peipsi (also with the Russian population that prevailed here);

Narva parish (now part of Kingisepp district of the Leningrad region).


Subsequently, ethnic Russians from among the inhabitants of these territories were allowed (if they wished) to return to Russia. It would seem that the noblest step ... But you just need to understand that all the real estate that people have would still remain on the Estonian side, and the citizens who returned to Russia would have to look for a roof over their heads, and a new place for housekeeping ... In general, the land was presented not only with people, but also with property, which (property), obviously, kept most of the “donated” population in their places.

By the way, the Tartu Treaty of 1920 of the year is not only the donation by the Soviet Russia of Estonia of “land plots” together with the farms located on them, it is also the transfer to Tallinn of about 12 tons of pure gold (from the country's gold reserves), historians, it is several tens of millions of gold rubles) and in addition - permission for Estonia to logging in a certain area (almost 1,1 million hectares) of Soviet Russia.

Then the contract was signed by Adolphe Ioffe, a diplomat from Russia, whose grave in Moscow for some time is so fond of visiting Estonian politicians. Yes, people with the name Adolf in the 20 century for Russia - a separate story ...

Territories, money, debt forgiveness, forest - as they say, luxury gifts from one young state to another. The colossal concessions made by the authorities of Soviet Russia with regard to Estonia were explained by the fact that the communists should come to power in Estonia "just about", and therefore everything would return again "to normal". However, the communists to power in the Estonian state, as is known, came clearly longer than the period of time that the authorities of Soviet Russia defined for themselves ... Only in 40-m “fraternal” states “fraternized” again.

In general, after the collapse of the USSR, the signing and ratification of the Tartu (Yurievsky) Treaty with Russia for Estonia was a great reason to inflate his cheeks and talk about the fact that the Russian Federation should again follow the example of the Bolsheviks and give the "due" territory to Tallinn. The Russian Federation then did not intend to follow the example of the Bolsheviks ...

Now both Russia and Estonia seem satisfied with the new treaty. At the same time, two clauses appeared in the contract, the existence of which was not previously mentioned.

These items are as follows:

1. This agreement, without exception, governs issues relating to the state border.

2. Recognized by the mutual absence of territorial claims.


It turns out that, like, no clauses of the Treaty of Tartu should emerge over time, since the parties are not going to put forward claims to each other - at least according to the documents. However, the head of the Foreign Affairs Committee of the Estonian State Assembly, Ann Eesmaa, states that even after the forthcoming ratification, there may be questions when conducting the demarcation line directly. To prevent significant problems, the parties decided to “exchange” more than 120 hectares of territories.

In addition to demarcation problems, problems are expected with the ratification of the treaty in the Estonian Parliament. For example, the leaders of the Estonian right-wing conservatives are already expressing dissatisfaction with the essence of the treaty. Apparently, these gentlemen, who have their representation in the European Parliament as well, don’t want to give commitments about the absence of territorial claims to the Russian Federation, but it’s somehow not Estonian.

In general, it now remains to closely monitor the progress of work on the treaty and its possible ratification (namely, that the Estonian side again does not “supplement” the contract with new clauses “one person”. Yes, and it’s not in the information plan to follow our masters in power - I don’t want another mister Ioffe to be found, who give “extra” lands from the bounty to “dear neighbors”.
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  1. os9165
    os9165 10 October 2013 07: 23
    86
    Will it not work out: “Oh, II! Kemska volost! ” I have Medvedev’s request not to allow the agreement. IT'S GET IT. to beat hands that I did not think.
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 10 October 2013 07: 38
      20
      Quote: os9165
      »I have Medvedev’s request not to allow the agreement. IT'S GET IT. to beat hands that I did not think.

      Yes, again Medvedev, only Putin gave the islands to China.
      1. domokl
        domokl 10 October 2013 08: 31
        27
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Yes, again Medvedev, only Putin gave the islands to China.

        And why do we need these islands? Cupid is such a river that every year lathers and washes several islands ... laughing
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 10 October 2013 09: 11
          45
          Quote: domokl
          What the hell are these islands for?

          And why are we the Kuril Islands?
          Quote: domokl
          Amur is such a river that it every year lathers and washes off several islands ..

          There was a fortification, now China has it, though under water laughing
          In general, there is nothing to be scattered about by the Russian land, not for that they have been collected for centuries.
          1. domokl
            domokl 10 October 2013 09: 44
            +8
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            And why are we the Kuril Islands?

            The Kuril Islands are washed somewhat different ... Not by the river, but by the sea and the ocean. So the comparison is inappropriate. The sea coast is not so much important in itself as it is important on the shelf and you know it perfectly.
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            There was a fortification, now it is in China, though laughing under water

            And where on the Amur there were no fortified areas? In Blagoveshchensk, even on the embankment laughing
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            In general, there is nothing to scatter the Russian land, not for that they collected for centuries

            Collectors laughing Sasha, can you tell me where is the famous Damanskiy island? Why did we shed so much blood? Did our border guards die there, and where is the island? By the way, the Amur River also flowed there
            1. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 10 October 2013 09: 51
              +9
              Quote: domokl
              . The sea coast is not so much important in itself as it is important offshore and you know it very well.

              This is not a reason to distribute land!
              Quote: domokl
              And where on the Amur there were no fortified areas? In Blagoveshchensk, even on the embankment

              And where is the district strengthened, the embankment, like the embankment, only you can’t go down to the Amur — for sure in winter.
              Quote: domokl
              Sasha, can you tell me where we have the famous Daman island?

              Ask Putin wink
            2. Sakmagon
              Sakmagon 10 October 2013 22: 01
              0
              By the way, the Amur River also flowed there

              Ussuri ...
          2. Sergh
            Sergh 10 October 2013 09: 53
            10
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            , only Putin gave the islands to China

            Hello, hello
            Here I do not agree. I picked this topic for more than one day. Its roots go deeply, but it’s even very necessary to read carefully, although this is not the first time I have hung it here:

            And in the end, Gorbachev signs the following document.

            AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE UNION OF THE SOVIET SOCIALIST REPUBLICS AND THE CHINESE PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF THE SOVIET-CHINESE BORDER ON ITS EASTERN PART.
            Article 2.
            From the ninth border point, the state border line goes down the Amur River ...

            Extension
            http://nechtoportal.ru/rossiya/putin-otdal-ostrova-a-kitay-na-nih-stroit-megapol

            is.html
            1. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 10 October 2013 10: 03
              +5
              Quote: Sergh
              Here I do not agree.

              Hello, Sergey! I also disagree when they give the land to someone. And about the fact that below, the politicians what to take from them, except for the analyzes and those worthless
          3. sakmagon
            sakmagon 10 October 2013 15: 37
            16
            the contract was signed under Yeltsin, he served in this now former 2 Ure, according to the contract that we were supposed to fulfill China, all the islands, including B.ussuriysky, departed, in the end it turned out a little differently, otherwise under President Putin, or he’s also responsible for the floods, it’s not funny already to listen to all these stupid plums addressed to him
          4. Uhe
            Uhe 11 October 2013 00: 31
            +1
            You are absolutely right.

            There is another side to this question: the Russian land where Russian blood was shed. And on these islands we fought with the Chinese. They fought and won.
        2. GDP
          GDP 10 October 2013 13: 37
          +4
          B. Usuriski island Kotoryu gave Putin (And not only him, but also about Tabarov, Damansky Island) is at the crossroads of two major rivers of the Far East. We used to control it - now China.
          Putin actually fulfills the obligations Gorbachev made to 1990 ...
          1. sakmagon
            sakmagon 10 October 2013 15: 43
            10
            he didn’t give anything back, especially the Ussuri one, the agreement was signed under Yeltsin, you were sick of it, you were there, to argue, the wiseacres of the book, thanks to him b. Ussuri just stayed
          2. Uhe
            Uhe 11 October 2013 00: 33
            0
            Fulfills, because there is no political will. Those same Lenin and Stalin easily directed any obligations to themselves in the right direction, leaving the enemy with a nose. They had a will, and now - sadness alone, and not rulers.
        3. GDP
          GDP 10 October 2013 13: 41
          +7
          Area about. Greater Usurian - 350 square kilometers, 350 km will wash away?
      2. Good Dad
        Good Dad 10 October 2013 08: 56
        +8
        Which islands? There are no more islands ... Washed all the same with the Chinese buildings ...
        1. domokl
          domokl 10 October 2013 09: 45
          +4
          Quote: Good Dad
          There are no more islands ... Washed all the same with the Chinese buildings ...

          Here it is ... And in another place it will get wet tomorrow ... Panic about nothing ...
          1. Sergh
            Sergh 10 October 2013 10: 07
            11
            Quote: Good Dad
            Washed all the same with the Chinese buildings ...

            In happiness, then! The main thing is that the Chinese themselves should not be nailed to our shore!

          2. Simon
            Simon 10 October 2013 12: 57
            0
            After the current flood, many islands will disappear, while others will appear. Well, how to be here? request
        2. samoletil18
          samoletil18 10 October 2013 15: 01
          0
          And with the Chinese?
      3. afire
        afire 10 October 2013 09: 05
        +3
        yes enough about these islands to taldychit! A micron of land in a lush river, yes ours was, but what is the practical use? more talk about this island than the meaning of his estate.
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 10 October 2013 09: 13
          11
          Quote: afire
          yes enough about these islands to taldychit! micron of land in a lush river

          And the truth is, not Putin's gutting, we throw all the stones at Medvedev.
          Quote: afire
          Yes, ours was, but what practical use?

          the district was strengthened there, and now it is GREAT! Themselves the Far East were or so from Europe, we determine the practical benefit
          1. domokl
            domokl 10 October 2013 09: 50
            +2
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            the district was strengthened there, and now it is GREAT!

            Sasha, I’ll repeat that you don’t breathe so evenly to this ancient fortified area? You know very well that Cupid always brings surprises with the islands. There even pilots are attracted by the constant change of the channel ...
            When the Chinese pritenzy arise, Cupid helps to solve them. That is why it was not the weak Russian Empire, at one time, that the border was drawn not along the islands, but along the banks of the Amur.
            1. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 10 October 2013 09: 54
              +4
              Quote: domokl
              Sasha, I repeat that you are not breathing so evenly with this ancient fortified area?

              There, the Chinese women began to dig their shore, deepening it and pour something there. The result of this is that the border passing along the Cupid will leave China even more. What are I talking about? Our border runs along the Amur, and not along the coast
            2. bodriy
              bodriy 10 October 2013 10: 55
              +6
              DOMOKL dear! Don't you think that you are talking nonsense! What a difference it was flooded, not flooded ... it was our island now it is not ours and the point is fat. then I wanted to "let's give the Arctic to the devil, let's give it up cold there !!!" negative
        2. Kahlan amnell
          Kahlan amnell 10 October 2013 09: 56
          13
          To give Damansky Island to China means wiping their feet in memory of the border guards who died there in 1969. So I think.
          1. creak
            creak 10 October 2013 10: 33
            14
            In this regard, I would like to note that, unfortunately, the state started wiping its feet in memory of our fallen soldiers much earlier - when it donated to China the powerful naval base of Port Arthur, generously watered with the blood of Russian soldiers and the city of Dalniy. Chinese friends thanked us for such a generous gift in Damansky. As they say - not a single good deed will go unpunished (at least in politics).
            1. consul
              consul 10 October 2013 12: 03
              +7
              Quote: ranger
              handed over to China a powerful naval base of Port Arthur, generously watered with the blood of Russian soldiers

              For Port Arthur, it is doubly disappointing, for him, my great-great-grandfather-midshipman of the Imperial Navy, shed blood.
              1. Misantrop
                Misantrop 10 October 2013 19: 39
                +2
                Quote: consul
                , my great-great-grandfather-midshipman of the Imperial Navy, shed blood

                My too... drinks
          2. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 10 October 2013 12: 16
            +2
            Quote: Kahlan Amnell
            it means wiping the feet in memory of the border guards,

            Correctly consider.
            Quote: ranger
            when donated to China the powerful naval base of Port Arthur

            There is different, it was a forced transfer, but here is an act of goodwill, their mother is like that.
            1. creak
              creak 10 October 2013 14: 51
              +4
              What's the difference? Who, I wonder, forced us to hand over Port Arthur? And what did we get in return besides the slogan - Russian and Chinese - brothers forever? But as it turned out, not forever - very soon China demonstrated to us all the strength of its brotherly love ... If only in Damansky, the Chinese would put on spokes in the wheels and during the war in Vietnam and in other regions ... The Chinese, in Unlike us, they will never sacrifice their interests for the sake of some ephemeral slogans - they are pragmatists, as Deng Xiaoping said: "It doesn't matter what color the cat is - just to catch mice."
      4. Zerstorer
        Zerstorer 10 October 2013 09: 52
        +2
        Well, absolutely without concessions, no contract can be concluded. And I also note that China is not the Baltic states - we are so dependent on China (however, it is also on us). So diplomacy and mutual concessions.
        1. Misantrop
          Misantrop 10 October 2013 11: 07
          +5
          Quote: Zerstorer
          diplomacy and mutual concessions.
          If I am not mistaken, does the term "mutual" mean that BOTH contracting parties are sacrificing something? Moreover, the victims of one plan, and not the exchange of territories for moral torment ...
        2. AVV
          AVV 10 October 2013 12: 54
          +5
          We have already made concessions to China above the roof, we need to know the honor !!! If this continues, give it back to the Estonians, to the Japanese as well, to the Chinese, and other ethnic groups, what will remain for us and our children ???
          1. Uhe
            Uhe 11 October 2013 00: 39
            +1
            The most amazing thing is that China takes any concessions for granted, because for China the center of the world is China, and the rest - or its vassals, then they should serve China, therefore they are on the way to the light (that is, to the light coming from China itself ), and those who do not want to serve him are delusional, subject to either extermination or ostracism. In any case, to make concessions to the Chinese is to play to your own detriment. These are the oldest traders in the world. Jews walked under the table when the Han people had their own state :) And we all the sinologists are on a salary from China, because the state does not care about them. That’s why such stupid concessions are being made.

            Well, the Far East is actually handed out to the Chinese on an indefinite lease. Shame is simple.
      5. don.kryyuger
        don.kryyuger 10 October 2013 18: 28
        +2
        And 180 000 sq. Km in the Barents Sea, Norway was given by Medvedev.
        1. 31231
          31231 10 October 2013 22: 05
          0
          Even 180 thousand km2 ?!
          Oh, wei! Gevalt is direct.
          You would familiarize yourself with the topic before you carry it.

          There were 180 thousand km2 of disputed territory between us and Norway. We found a compromise and divided this very territory in half. Who gave what and what, I don't know. It is necessary to read it in blozhiks, there the most "smart" people make hands. And the official version was written by me above.
          Diplomacy and diplomacy in order to seek a compromise, rather than stupidly bullish.
      6. pav-pon1972
        pav-pon1972 10 October 2013 22: 33
        +2
        You are mistaken, an agreement with the PRC was concluded in 1992, demarcation began in 1992 from the territories of the Khasansky, Khankaysky, Oktyabrsky and Border Districts of Primorye, further up the Ussuri to Amur. There was an interesting thing in the contract: the border runs along the fairway of the Kazakevichev duct between Ussuri and Amur. The Chinese began from their shore to drown decommissioned barges from the ground, dump gravel, land into the water off the coast. The duct was lent for 10 years. And only in 2002 began the transfer of the islands of gibberish, Zaychiy and parts of B. Ussuriysky. By the way, the deputies ratified this treaty under Yeltsin. Putin only fulfilled it. he himself served in the 2nd URe, left from there in 2002, the part was reduced.
    2. Denis
      Denis 10 October 2013 07: 45
      20
      Quote: os9165
      Medvedev to the contract not to admit
      yes he is capable
      1. The comment was deleted.
    3. Mitek
      Mitek 10 October 2013 08: 30
      24
      Quote: os9165
      Will it not work out: “Oh, II! Kemska volost! ” I have Medvedev’s request not to allow the agreement. IT'S GET IT. to beat hands that I did not think.

      Right Even in the Gaidai film, the thief Miloslavsky thinks about the country, and the official, albeit of a small rank, Bunsh squanders everything that is possible. Of course comedy, but very revealing in my opinion.
      1. domokl
        domokl 10 October 2013 08: 35
        11
        Quote: Mitek
        and an official, albeit of a small rank, Bunsh spits on his country.

        belay Alas, you can’t argue. Our officials are somehow out of this world. One word is temporary ... Everyone thinks more about his own pocket, realizing that they can also push him out of the feeder than about the country.
        By the way, this is not so much modern realities as the fate of Russia in general.
      2. v.lyamkin
        v.lyamkin 10 October 2013 09: 58
        +1
        I propose to announce the list of members of the Russian delegation, taking into account your comment.
    4. Civil
      Civil 10 October 2013 08: 36
      +1
      What are you, as the established "Medvedev, Putin" is always someone else to blame, just not you yourself, as children, it's time to grow up and take responsibility for yourself and not stupidly demand
      1. Dangerous
        Dangerous 10 October 2013 09: 19
        +6
        And nobody here blames them for anything. On the contrary, we are worried that the territory will not be returned to Russia. And where does "take responsibility for yourself"? This issue is resolved directly by the top officials of the state, without our interference with you. Although, of course, you can go to the border for now, dig holes under the posts, since you are so impatient to do something laughing
      2. Misantrop
        Misantrop 10 October 2013 10: 12
        +3
        Quote: Civil
        and take responsibility
        On territorial disputes with Estonia? belay What should it look like? what
    5. gsg955
      gsg955 10 October 2013 10: 45
      +3
      Medvedev away, Onishchenko closer.
      1. Denis
        Denis 10 October 2013 14: 08
        +2
        Quote: gsg955
        Onishchenko closer
        He’s like beak clacking, clacking!
        She yelped on the 5th of Lithuania about the Kaliningrad region, get:
        Russia will limit the supply of dairy products from Lithuania 7 October
        On October 7, Russia will officially introduce restrictions on the supply of dairy products from Lithuania, Interfax reports with reference to the head of Rospotrebnadzor Gennady Onishchenko. According to him, this day will begin to limit the admission to the Russian market of certain groups of dairy products from Lithuania.
        I didn’t have to wait long
        1. samoletil18
          samoletil18 10 October 2013 15: 06
          +2
          So the commission from the WTO on this issue has been appointed. A new option to neutralize Onishchenko.
          1. Misantrop
            Misantrop 10 October 2013 19: 42
            +4
            Quote: samoletil18
            So the commission from the WTO on this issue has been appointed. A new option to neutralize Onishchenko.
            Now Onishchenko will also ban this commission wassat
    6. waisson
      waisson 10 October 2013 20: 15
      +1
      good spotted exactly well done !!!!!
    7. Realist58
      Realist58 11 October 2013 01: 28
      +1
      What nafig agreement on borders ... we have a deed of purchase on these lands. Respect our right privately owned of property.
    8. Rusich51
      Rusich51 12 October 2013 23: 34
      +1
      the territory of the now Russian Pechora region (together with the Russian population that prevailed here);

      the right-bank areas of the Narva River to Lake Peipsi (also with the Russian population that prevailed here);

      Narva parish (now part of Kingisepp district of the Leningrad region).

      Kh. R them in one place so that the crackers do not crumple. Mala louse, but biting.
  2. a52333
    a52333 10 October 2013 07: 25
    12
    It is understandable, wanting is not harmful. But "gifts" exist only between friends. They have love with Gayrope. Let them give gifts to each other.
    1. densh
      densh 11 October 2013 01: 42
      +1
      They have a strong gay family. wink
  3. Landwarrior
    Landwarrior 10 October 2013 07: 30
    +8
    Border demarcation is akin to a land surveying in a village where people are ready to plant each other on a pitchfork with a bayonet of shovels. lol
    An old friend, a former military topographer, demarcated the border with China, said that the Chinese comrades were talking about millimeters, and that with the accuracy of the equipment and timing was not achievable. sad
    It’s achievable right now, but the question is, are the top detachments still remaining or will any private shop give this work? request
  4. domokl
    domokl 10 October 2013 07: 34
    10
    In principle, if the Estonians shudder again, it’s possible to de facto draw the border and not worry too much. Of course you can talk it over, but if people don’t want to, it’s their problem, not ours.
    And if the Foreign Ministry nevertheless solves the problem, then let it solve it.
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 10 October 2013 07: 42
      19
      Quote: domokl
      In principle, if the Estonians shudder again, you can de facto draw the border and not worry too much.

      Hello Sasha! Where exactly do you propose to draw the border? In my opinion, it will be the right time to set up border towers near Tallinn. That would be their president, each time looking out the window in the morning, he saw a Russian soldier with a gun wassat
      1. domokl
        domokl 10 October 2013 08: 29
        +8
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        In my opinion, it will be just right to put border towers near Tallinn

        Hi! Specifically, I propose to put the border where it is passing now ... Only to dig up the pillars from Estonia .. So that at least half a meter is snatched off ... We need to give an option for territorial claims. and the possibility of our concessions laughing
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 10 October 2013 09: 15
          +3
          Quote: domokl
          Specifically, I propose to put the border where it passes now

          that is, seek concessions to Estonians?
          Quote: domokl
          .. Only bury the pillars from Estonia ..

          And I realized, bury together with the Estonians, such as a military trick. There is no Estonian no problems with the borders laughing
        2. old rocket man
          old rocket man 10 October 2013 14: 51
          +4
          Quote: domokl
          .Only bury pillars from Estonia


          Hi, this is ours.
          My neighbor high raised that I tied the net to the pillars on her side, this despite the fact that the pillars on my site are dug in, they barely calmed down the fool for a couple with a neighbor, they persuaded three liters on their nerves, and you say - Estonians. historical nickname - "white-eyed monster" laughing
          By the way, the neighbor crest is a great man
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Quiet
      Quiet 10 October 2013 09: 11
      +3
      you can de facto draw a border and not worry too much

      Draw the border line SO that on the map you can clearly see the "fig" directed towards their capital !!! I think that the others who try to beg "Kemsk volost" will sharply decrease their agility so as not to be a laughing stock for cartographers all over the world !!! am laughing
      1. es.d
        es.d 10 October 2013 18: 14
        0
        Quote: Quiet
        so that the "cookie" directed towards their capital is clearly visible on the map

        Kukish you say, I have a proposal to use ... uh-uh, another anatomical "feature" lol
  5. treskoed
    treskoed 10 October 2013 07: 38
    +5
    However, the head of the committee on foreign affairs of the Estonian State Assembly, Ann Eesmaa, states that even after the upcoming ratification, questions may arise when conducting a direct demarcation line.

    You can't say better about "hot Estonian guys"!
    1. Akhtuba73
      Akhtuba73 10 October 2013 13: 38
      +6
      Quote: treskoed
      (By the way, Soviet Russia ratified that treaty three days after its signing, the Estonian side thought a week longer ...):

      In my own spirit ... I propose to muddle up all sorts of beautiful, complex, legally confused phrases in the contract, add a bit of sopromat and "The Lay of Igor's Host" in Swahili. They will ratify this treaty by 2076. And there either the donkey ... or the padishah ... or the Tallinn region will be
      1. family tree
        family tree 10 October 2013 20: 06
        +3
        Quote: Akhtuba73
        or Tallinn the area will be

        Kolyvan yes
  6. andrei332809
    andrei332809 10 October 2013 07: 39
    22
    found with whom to negotiate. it’s not a country, but a temporary education. Remind them constantly that they live on Russian territory and demand rent (tribute for 12 years)
    1. The comment was deleted.
  7. Egoza
    Egoza 10 October 2013 07: 50
    43
    Wait a minute! Why in Estonia they don’t remember (if they love history so much) that Peter I bought Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia from the Swedish Queen Ulrika Eleanor on 10 of September 1721 of the year. (Just today - DATE)
    And Peter Lekseich paid, among other things, several million gold talers. So who will return the money, since independence is free. Sweden or Estonia? They want an independent country - let them pay, with interest for everything that they built in the years of the USSR. Yes, and a little gold coin for these days to count. But then it will be possible to talk about borders.
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 10 October 2013 08: 04
      11
      Quote: Egoza
      (Just today - DATE)

      Elena hi If they are forced to pay debts to those who have accumulated over the entire lease, the Russian budget will be increased by three.
      And in general, Estonia, there is no such country!
    2. Simon
      Simon 10 October 2013 13: 07
      +1
      So they immediately-hehe sit down in the galosha! Where will they get such a ton of money? If only part of the territory will be given. laughing
    3. xan
      xan 10 October 2013 15: 01
      +1
      Quote: Egoza
      Peter I bought Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia from the Swedish Queen Ulrika Eleanor on September 10, 1721. (Just today - DATE)
      And Peter Lekseich paid, in between, several million gold taller

      Peter paid money for not the emergence of a pan-European anti-Russian union. By this time, the Swedes were already full impotent. There, the mediators got what an anti-Russian union is.
  8. Klim podkova
    Klim podkova 10 October 2013 08: 07
    10
    Again, Russia should all. But Russia itself never owes anything. Is it time to demand your own, and with interest?
    1. Quiet
      Quiet 10 October 2013 09: 28
      +6
      Again, Russia owes everything.

      To all those who used to live happily at the expense of the USSR .....
    2. Quiet
      Quiet 10 October 2013 09: 29
      +1
      Again, Russia owes everything.

      To all those who used to live happily at the expense of the USSR .....
  9. pinecone
    pinecone 10 October 2013 08: 15
    +5
    Quote: Egoza
    Wait a minute! Why in Estonia they don’t remember (if they love history so much) that Peter I bought Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia from the Swedish Queen Ulrika Eleanor on 10 of September 1721 of the year. (Just today - DATE)


    Not certainly in that way. They paid for the transfer of Russia to Estonia and Livonia. At that time, Lithuania was part of the Kingdom of Poland, and the Duchy of Courland remained independent. Since 1720, the king of Frederick occupied the Swedish throne.
  10. serge
    serge 10 October 2013 08: 18
    20
    A third of this same Estonia is populated by Russians. Narva is a Russian city. Kolyvan (aka Revel, later Tallinn) is a Russian city. But no, Russia has never had territorial claims against Estonia.
    1. Peaceful military
      Peaceful military 10 October 2013 08: 58
      +8
      Pärnu, the former Pernov, was founded by Yaroslav the Wise and named after Perun. Tartu, former Yuryev, is also founded by Yaroslav the Wise, etc.soldier
      1. Janis SU
        Janis SU 10 October 2013 09: 37
        14
        In Estonia with Latvia, more than one city was not founded and built by the indigenous people. By the way, pay attention, dear, to the names of cities dating back to the beginning of the last century - entirely original (!) German. Including a few Russians. In other words, without creating anything themselves and living in foreign cities, while actively mythologizing their history, they squealed with enthusiasm with all sorts of claims to the eastern neighbor. Very nasty and constantly reminiscent of the jackal that whined - they say, Akella missed.
        1. Misantrop
          Misantrop 10 October 2013 11: 09
          10
          Quote: Janis SU
          In Estonia with Latvia, more than one city was not founded and built by the indigenous people.
          Civilized Europeans didn’t let local Aborigines into these cities at all, they still steal something or break it ... lol
      2. Revolver
        Revolver 10 October 2013 09: 40
        +5
        Quote: Peaceful military
        Pärnu, the former Pernov, was founded by Yaroslav the Wise and named after Perun.
        Well, you are bent. Yaroslav was baptized, and the city could not be named in honor of the pagan god. Although this does not exclude the fact that the city was founded before the baptism of Russia.
        Another thing is that limitrophs and honor should know.
        1. Peaceful military
          Peaceful military 10 October 2013 10: 03
          +3
          Well, you are bent. Yaroslav was baptized, and the city could not be named in honor of the pagan god.

          Yes, not a dock, memory fails. I beg your pardon.smile
          The fact that Narva is the former Rugodiv and Parnu, the former Pernov is understandable, but about Yaroslav the Wise in relation to them, this is an overlay, because his name is most connected with the history of this land. hi
          1. Luga
            Luga 10 October 2013 13: 40
            15
            Still Rakvere - Rakovor, Otepya - the Bear's Head, there is still, just now not to remember. In short, only Russians and Germans built in Estonia and Latvia. Moreover, the Germans - fortifications, churches and concentration camps, and the Russians - schools, factories, ports, railways and power plants.
            There are no such countries as Estonia and Latvia. No and never has been. These formations are simply an eructation of the revolution and a consequence of the mess that was going on in the world at that time. Neither Estonians nor Latvians are able to have their own state and have not earned such a right in their entire history. They already have slavery at the genetic level, since the 13 century they are used to licking shoes to the one who at the moment has declared himself their master. Slaves were their great-grandfathers, grandfathers and fathers, their grandchildren would be slaves.
            We don’t have to negotiate with them, agreements are for equals. They need to be put in place. Moreover, to that which we ourselves point out. Politically, economically, physically, finally - to crush, crush and crush reptiles until they crawl, whining like a bob, and then graciously allow them to live a little.
            am am am
            Sorry, escaped sad
            1. Peaceful military
              Peaceful military 10 October 2013 14: 09
              +7
              In short, only Russians and Germans built in Estonia and Latvia.

              Dear Michael!
              In Estonia, Danes, Swedes and Russians built more. The Germans are not enough. Although in the days of the Hansa, in Revel, according to Lübeck law (code of laws) everything was in German.
              In all other respects, I absolutely agree with you.
              Sorry, escaped

              I see. smile soldier
              1. Luga
                Luga 10 October 2013 15: 12
                +4
                I agree with you, Andrey. In Latvia and southern Estonia - Germans and Swedes, in northern Estonia - Danes and Swedes. Forgot about them in the heat of the moment. recourse
  11. Kiliny
    Kiliny 10 October 2013 08: 21
    +3
    Again "Pug" barks at "elephant" ...
  12. KLIM
    KLIM 10 October 2013 08: 37
    12
    Quote: serge
    A third of this same Estonia is populated by Russians. Narva is a Russian city. Kolyvan (aka Revel, later Tallinn) is a Russian city. But no, Russia has never had territorial claims against Estonia.

    And not only to Estonia. And how many Russian lands Khrushchev "gave" to Soviet Ukraine, and now, after "cutting" the USSR, Ukraine has turned into a great sea power. But thanks to the efforts of Nakhimov and Ushakov, Ukraine has what it has.
    1. v.lyamkin
      v.lyamkin 10 October 2013 10: 04
      +3
      Well, future Ukrainian citizens also had a hand in these gains: I heard that Ukrainian history textbooks provide information that all (or most) Ushakov’s fleet sailors consisted of Ukrainian Cossacks.
      1. Misantrop
        Misantrop 10 October 2013 11: 12
        +8
        Quote: v.lyamkin
        Ukrainian history textbooks provide information that all (or most) of the sailors of Ushakov’s fleet consisted of Ukrainian Cossacks.
        Naturally, how could modern Ukrainian "historians" know the principles of manning the armed forces of that time? So they compose to the best of their imagination lol
      2. Djozz
        Djozz 10 October 2013 11: 19
        +5
        Yeah, in trousers, with motney to the floor, it’s handy to climb the guys!
        1. Jogan-xnumx
          Jogan-xnumx 10 October 2013 12: 53
          17
          Yeah, in trousers, with motney to the floor, it’s handy to climb the guys!

          laughing Really funny! Ukraine is something special.fool
          My son (in the spring it was) comes from school (5th grade) and says that a history teacher told them how Ukrainian Cossacks during the time of B. Khmelnitsky (XVII centurywhat) to fight the Turks built and used submarines. Moreover, the first in the world. I got sick !!! Son, knowing that I am well versed in weapons, history, incl. and in the submarine, asks, is this true?belay At first I even got a little "wedged". Then I ask him, how were these boats made and how did they submerge, went under water and then surfaced? Did the teacher explain? The son replies that boats were made of two Cossack "seagulls", one turned upside down on the other, both were sheathed with leather, oars were inserted through special holes for rowing under water. fool To submerge the boat under water, sand was poured into the bottom inside (as I understand it, to obtain negative buoyancylol), and for surfacing to the surface this sand was poured out of the boat through a hole in the bottom, closed by a cork.fool The teacher did not explain how the crew even got into the boat and how they "fought" with the Turks, and told her son to his questions not to be clever.request
          I assure honest people that this is not a bike! In our kho.khlyatsky schools, sometimes such "pearls" give out that the insanity of the rest of the world fades ... I dare to assume that I have a good library at home and I gave my son to read some books about the PL and the history of their creation, having previously explained to him in in general terms ts the principle of operation of the submarine. He realized that what he had been told at school was nonsense.negative
          But, in the classroom, the son has 26 children. What's next???
          1. Peaceful military
            Peaceful military 10 October 2013 13: 19
            11
            But, in the classroom, the son has 26 children. What's next???

            Goebbels said: first, we will take away their history and after 2-3 generations they will turn into an obedient herd of sheep.
            He is not, and his business is booming.negativeangry
            1. Luga
              Luga 10 October 2013 13: 58
              +7
              All this is very, very sad. sad
              My son also has marasmus at school, but this has not yet come to that. The key word is bye. This year I learned that Sergiy Radonezhsky had brought Russian troops to the Kulikovo field fool And pearls like that every year.
              I want to drop everything and go to school as a history teacher. But who then will earn money in the family? sad
              1. Peaceful military
                Peaceful military 10 October 2013 14: 15
                +7
                The key word is bye.

                Dear Michael!
                Everything is decided in the family, if we entrust the upbringing of children only to kindergartens and schools, we will lose them. So making money does not have to absorb all the time and energy.
                FIGHT FOR YOUR CHILDREN! GOOD LUCK AND VICTORY! soldier
          2. morpex
            morpex 10 October 2013 21: 32
            +2
            Quote: Jogan-64
            Ukrainian Cossacks at the time of B. Khmelnitsky (XVII-th century) built and used submarines to fight the Turks.

            Bullshit .. Sadly fool if it's true ....
            1. Jogan-xnumx
              Jogan-xnumx 10 October 2013 23: 06
              +1
              Bullshit .. It's sad if it's true ...

              Unfortunately, I did not invent a single word.request As I understand it, you are my compatriot now (this insanity is already cutting your earshi). In support of my "school" theme, the following "anecdote". Again vital. When my child went to the 1st grade (2008) and he was given textbooks, I saw that one of the textbooks was called "I and Ukraine".
              Now please tell me what is this subject and what is it studying? Just answer yourself, do not google on the Internet in search of a "cheat sheet". And yet, if you have a child of the same age and have encountered the same idiocy with your own eyes, then admit right away that you know the answer.
        2. morpex
          morpex 10 October 2013 21: 24
          0
          Quote: Djozz
          Yeah, in trousers, with motney to the floor, it’s handy to climb the guys!

          But in bast shoes and in semi-caftania more convenient?
          Che so Ukraine annoyed respected? Well, just like a bone in the throat. Even to become about Estonia and then for happiness spit in her direction. You, what becomes easier from this?
          By the way, you too have "historians" - inadequate enough. But this is not a reason to offend the whole nation. As for me, educated people do not act like that ...
          1. Peaceful military
            Peaceful military 10 October 2013 22: 20
            +2
            Even in becoming about Estonia and then for happiness spit in her direction. You, what becomes easier from this?
            But this is not a reason to insult the whole nation.

            Dear Valery!
            About the former Estland province / ESSR most of all, probably I write. You did not contact me personally, but I accept this and at my own expense and answer.
            Have you ever seen me "spit" at her, or insult the whole nation? Take the trouble to look, at least on this thread. Those, in whom, as you put it, I "spit" by me are always clearly identified, and in this case these are the title fascists.
            BUT NOT ALL ESTONIANS AS A NATION AND NOT A MULTINATIONAL PEOPLE OF ESTONIA.
            By the way, I have more than once expressed my opinion about what is happening in Ukraine, always, clearly dividing the Ukrainian brothers from "proud ukrov". It's not difficult to check.
            But this is not a reason to insult the whole nation. As for me, educated people do not do this ...

            Absolutely agree with you. hi
      3. Ulan
        Ulan 10 October 2013 14: 20
        +6
        Well, yes ... they and Napoleon won a whole chapter in their history textbooks - "Ukrainian regiments in the war against Napoleon."
      4. xan
        xan 10 October 2013 14: 56
        +7
        Quote: v.lyamkin
        Ukrainian history textbooks provide information that all (or most) of the sailors of Ushakov’s fleet consisted of Ukrainian Cossacks.

        up to the Napoleonic wars, recruitment kits were held only in the central provinces of Russia.
  13. Standard Oil
    Standard Oil 10 October 2013 08: 41
    +6
    And what do the EU think about their small fascist state? And in the end, Estonians can simply be ignored, the importance of this country is small, let them peep.
    1. Peaceful military
      Peaceful military 10 October 2013 09: 09
      +9
      And what do the EU think about their small fascist state?

      Boris, a geyropa supports and encourages titular fascists. soldier
      1. v.lyamkin
        v.lyamkin 10 October 2013 10: 05
        +5
        Especially if their actions are directed against Russia.
      2. Misantrop
        Misantrop 10 October 2013 10: 15
        +5
        Quote: Peaceful military
        Geyropa supports and encourages titular fascists

        Well, let it give them territory. Own, not Russian
        1. Peaceful military
          Peaceful military 10 October 2013 10: 34
          10
          Well, let it give them territory. Own, not Russian

          Geyrop will give, yeah ... Look, when Russia and Germany were solving the issue of the route of laying the "Nord Stream" Geyrop through their serving titular fascists in power, they turned the trick that the route lay in Finnish and Swedish waters, not in Estonian. This lengthened and made the route more expensive and brought the Finns and Swedes a good penny to the treasury, every year, for their beautiful eyes. And the Estonians have lost this annual and free welding. Russia initially offered Estonia this freebie ...
          Absurd? No, geyropa. negative
  14. Peaceful military
    Peaceful military 10 October 2013 08: 55
    10
    the title fascists torpedoed the ratification of the border treaty in 2005 by adopting, after signing the treaty, a certain preamble about the Tartu Peace Treaty, which Russia refused to ratify this treaty.
    There was a stink ...
    Now again, the rhetoric is such that we (they are the titular fascists) once again did everything and now it’s the turn of Russia. What have they done, what has Russia not done, what is it her turn to do something? But the mood of the titular fascists is fighting. Indeed, the owner gave the go-ahead. Dogs, they are dogs in Africa. negative
    1. andrei332809
      andrei332809 10 October 2013 12: 55
      +9
      Quote: Peaceful military
      But the mood of the titular fascists is fighting.

      is stopped by an Estonian border guard "Quattro" with five passengers:
      - "four" is written, and there are five of you in the car. Let one get out and walk.
      they explain to him that "Quattro" is the name of the model. him
      - call the senior. frontier:
      -the elder cannot, he has a more serious problem, there are four in "uno"
      1. Peaceful military
        Peaceful military 10 October 2013 13: 30
        +6
        A man rides and sees another man on the side of the horse pounding with a stick.
        A man stopped, walked over, saw everything and understood and said:
        - You poke him
        And he answers:
        - Yaaa and under his forge, and under the ass, she eats. (it turned out to be an echo)
    2. Ulan
      Ulan 10 October 2013 14: 23
      +2
      Do not insult the dogs. These are not dogs ... these are jackals.
      1. Setrac
        Setrac 10 October 2013 16: 16
        +2
        Quote: Ulan
        Do not insult the dogs. These are not dogs ... these are jackals.

        Jackals - orderlies of the forest - very useful animals.
      2. The comment was deleted.
        1. Peaceful military
          Peaceful military 10 October 2013 23: 16
          +2
          Amazing you have such a mixture of servility with arrogance ..

          Dear Peter!
          The mixture you named is also inherent to you, since you anoint it with others.
          Well, scatter, then don't be surprised that you are so "loved" everywhere

          Here you are right (see the picture of the opponent above), not without it ...
          BUT!
          WHAT ARE YOU OTHER ?!. HA, HA, HA! From one cauldron we and you, as if "proud Ukrainians" did not puff.
          AND!
          And you "Ukrainian", or MALOROSS / UKRAINIAN?
          hi
          1. peter_shchurov
            peter_shchurov 11 October 2013 09: 47
            -2
            [quote] [/ Are you a "Ukrainian", or MALOROSS / UKRAINIAN? quote]
            I am Russian, a citizen of Ukraine

            "one boiler, we and you, as
            the "proud Ukrainians" would not be puffed up. "

            Thank you, I don't need such "brothers" for nothing.
  15. Ddhal
    Ddhal 10 October 2013 09: 04
    +7
    Estonian border guard:
    "Tea? ... not tea, coffee? Ah !!! Oh !! - Kakkawa is the purpose of your visit?"
  16. Stiletto
    Stiletto 10 October 2013 09: 10
    +2
    I’m not sure that Medvedev will be able to embed the order with the ambassador as masterly as Miloslavsky’s. Although ... You can try.
    1. v.lyamkin
      v.lyamkin 10 October 2013 10: 07
      +1
      Do not believe in the presence of the prime minister of any talents?
      1. Stiletto
        Stiletto 10 October 2013 10: 20
        +8
        Quote: v.lyamkin
        Do not believe in the presence of the prime minister of any talents?


        Well, why ... I believe. He masterfully knows how to plunge into something that simply could be passed by. And always it does with a pompously serious look.
  17. Anubis
    Anubis 10 October 2013 09: 17
    +8
    Do not give anything to anyone, neither Estoshkas nor Japs nor Chinese !!! And rightly in the above posts it is said "IPHONE Do not allow demarcation agreements to join !!! am He has taxed for 4 years, draining the whole state (that is, Libya).
    1. Neighbor
      Neighbor 10 October 2013 20: 16
      0
      We won’t give our land an inch? .....
      1. not good
        not good 10 October 2013 23: 38
        0
        Mitya unfastened his bounty from people along with people and did not choke on the bastard.
  18. Janis SU
    Janis SU 10 October 2013 09: 27
    +9
    In my opinion, giving their territories is like throwing their own children. Gorbachev and Yeltsin had done so much in their time - they were hitting, but puzzling. Estonia itself, in historical fact, is a Russian province. This is the ultimate truth. Estonian declassified national separatists are asleep and see how to spoil Russia, while grabbing a piece of land from it. However, regarding the land - and who ever did not want to chop it off from the Russians? Therefore, they went all the way there ...
    1. Simon
      Simon 10 October 2013 13: 11
      +4
      And Khrushchev before them scattered the same land, and Shivornadze.
  19. IRBIS
    IRBIS 10 October 2013 09: 27
    +6
    And again, hot Estonian guys. What can I say - a fact on their face. In a direct interpretation, the admin will not miss.
    1. old rocket man
      old rocket man 10 October 2013 15: 04
      +2
      Quote: IRBIS
      What can I say - a fact on their face


      Yes, and throughout the hara laughing
  20. tun1313
    tun1313 10 October 2013 09: 31
    0
    Of course, we have been taught bitter experience, but damn it now, why are they indignant, Putin, Medvedev, not enough bloody gebni. It seems that they did not please again. Although I give a separate bow.
  21. godun
    godun 10 October 2013 09: 46
    +1
    Let's hope that the Bunsh house manager is not sitting on the throne, otherwise it will turn out: "Take it, the state will not become impoverished."
  22. Janis SU
    Janis SU 10 October 2013 09: 46
    +8
    Quote: IRBIS
    And again, hot Estonian guys. What can I say - a fact on their face. In a direct interpretation, the admin will not miss.

    --------------------
    You wanted to say - the gutta-percha plumbum lumpen-marginals, sharply limited in their perception of the surrounding reality, who should be sent to the male root cause with enviable regularity in order to cool their declassified national-separatist revenge? That is what they would say, dear. winked
    1. IRBIS
      IRBIS 10 October 2013 10: 08
      +3
      Quote: Janis SU
      That is what they would say, dear.

      Oh-fi-get! Yes, something like that is a member of the whole brazen Estland face ...
    2. densh
      densh 11 October 2013 02: 00
      +1
      Powerfully pushed-inspires. good
  23. ed65b
    ed65b 10 October 2013 09: 56
    0
    So I didn’t understand, they gave away what? or taken away? Or parted at zero.
  24. Janis SU
    Janis SU 10 October 2013 10: 02
    +6
    Quote: ed65b
    So I didn’t understand, they gave away what? or taken away? Or parted at zero.

    --------------------
    Estonia itself has been surrendered - is that not enough? How many krovushki and carcasses were spilled for that earth? But what about the cities that were founded by the Russians? How about the amount that was paid by Peter the Great? In the end, what about the hundreds of thousands of people who stayed there and who, in fact, were betrayed by the Metropolis in the person of a coward and a rag, Gorbachev and the alkonaft of Yeltsin? This question is very thick and is based on the Velm rib.
  25. Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 10 October 2013 10: 03
    +4
    For centuries, generations of Russian rulers, at the cost of the life of Russian warriors, have gathered the lands of the Russian Empire. It is surprising how easy some representatives of the Bolsheviks (Adolf Ioffe) squandered the lands of Russia. It is difficult to say, but if the EBN had been in power longer, maybe the Kuril Islands would have been Japanese? Such "generosity" of Russian (Soviet) politicians is not of great intelligence. Therefore, people should take their rulers under tight control.
  26. Pehmore
    Pehmore 10 October 2013 10: 08
    +1
    Is the topic worth discussing about it? They themselves do not decide what, vassals for life. Pay less attention to them, they themselves will die out.
  27. Was mammoth
    Was mammoth 10 October 2013 10: 09
    +2
    Quote: Landwarrior
    An old friend, a former military topographer, demarcated the border with China, said that the Chinese comrades were talking about millimeters, and that with the accuracy of the equipment and timing was not achievable. sad

    To me, my friend who served in the fortification in the 70s told me that somehow the builders cut through a clearing almost a kilometer from the border. The truth is in their direction. wink Then they cut the second clearing.
    1. Landwarrior
      Landwarrior 11 October 2013 22: 43
      0
      Quote: There was a mammoth
      To me, my friend who served in the fortification in the 70s told me that somehow the builders cut through a clearing almost a kilometer from the border. The truth is in their direction. Then they cut the second clearing.

      In principle, it is not surprising. ours, again, according to my friend, they officially entered China through the checkpoint only once, the rest of the time, they insolently cut through the GTSk across the Chinese expanses, almost with a banner unfurled, and on the one hand the border guards did not rock laughing
  28. Janis SU
    Janis SU 10 October 2013 10: 15
    +3
    Quote: Ivanovich47
    For centuries, generations of Russian rulers, at the cost of the life of Russian warriors, have gathered the lands of the Russian Empire. It is surprising how easy some representatives of the Bolsheviks (Adolf Ioffe) squandered the lands of Russia. It is difficult to say, but if the EBN had been in power longer, maybe the Kuril Islands would have been Japanese? Such "generosity" of Russian (Soviet) politicians is not of great intelligence. Therefore, people should take their rulers under tight control.


    A small remark with a tremendous motive is not Soviet politicians, that is, from the times of their strong power, namely, Russian politicians who squandered these territories. Is that Gorbachev ... But then again - do not be Borki Yeltsin ... Have you ever thought, dear, that the turmoil and deposition of the provinces have always occurred under weak rulers? You are extremely lucky that Putin is now in power, because this is a really significant very strong figure and personality. But who will replace him and will the process of decomposition into tens and hundreds of large and small pieces of Russian land continue? Believe me, no one wants this, and sometimes the heart aches for Russia, as our former and beloved Metropolis.
    1. samoletil18
      samoletil18 10 October 2013 15: 28
      +2
      Quote: Janis SU
      Quote: Ivanovich47
      For centuries, generations of Russian rulers, at the cost of the life of Russian warriors, have gathered the lands of the Russian Empire. It is surprising how easy some representatives of the Bolsheviks (Adolf Ioffe) squandered the lands of Russia. It is difficult to say, but if the EBN had been in power longer, maybe the Kuril Islands would have been Japanese? Such "generosity" of Russian (Soviet) politicians is not of great intelligence. Therefore, people should take their rulers under tight control.


      A small remark with a tremendous background was not Soviet politicians, that is, from the times of their strong power, namely, Russian politicians who squandered these territories. Is that Gorbachev ... But then again - do not be Borki Yeltsin ... You did not think, dear, that the unrest and deposition of the provinces always occurred under weak rulers? You are extremely lucky that Putin is now in power, since this is a really significant, very strong figure and personality. But who will replace him and will the process of decomposition into tens and hundreds of large and small pieces of Russian land continue? Believe me, no one wants this and sometimes the heart aches for Russia, as our former and
      the celebrated Metropolis.
      \\

      well, again, it's up to the ass. In Russia, rulers through one. And well, bald - hairy.
    2. Setrac
      Setrac 10 October 2013 16: 23
      0
      Quote: Janis SU
      A small remark with a tremendous background was not Soviet politicians, that is, from the times of their strong power, namely, Russian politicians who squandered these territories.

      Soviet also excelled. The efforts of the Soviet government lost Poland, Finland, Manchuria, lost the right of Russia as a pioneer in Antarctica, and many islands in the oceans.
      1. densh
        densh 11 October 2013 02: 05
        0
        Do not forget for Schleswig-Holstein, Alaska and the islands in the Mediterranean - also nefig scattered. hi
  29. Goldmitro
    Goldmitro 10 October 2013 10: 17
    +2
    <<< And it will not hurt to follow our gentlemen in power in terms of information - I don’t want to find another Mr. Ioffe comrades who donate "extra" land to "dear neighbors" from bounty. >>>
    Absolutely right! In our power structures since the time of Apohmeltsin, many liberal-advanced Ioffs have dug in, ready to "meet" the West, give away Russian territories, deviate from the interests of Russia, write to please him and be known there as a true crap and, of course, count on his support (in including, probably, and financial)!
  30. rennim
    rennim 10 October 2013 10: 25
    +6
    If once more any government riffraff will give at least a shred of RUSSIAN EARTH personally, I will abide by the act of CIVIL DISOBILITY. They lifted up ... Not for that my grandfathers and great-grandfathers shed blood and invalids returned ... so that any non-Russian evil spirits our Motherland.
  31. Janis SU
    Janis SU 10 October 2013 10: 28
    +5
    Quote: rennim
    If, at least once, what kind of government riffraff gives away at least a shred of RUSSIAN EARTH personally, I will abide by the act of CIVIL DISOBILITY.

    Can I also join and will support you with civil disobedience (sorry, Latvian citizenship, I mean ...) from abroad? winked
  32. botsman80
    botsman80 10 October 2013 10: 31
    +1
    For "history buffs" who are "stirring up tons of papers" are looking for when it was more I want to remind about the Nishtadt peace treaty. Personally, I like it better. Can we share it?
  33. Janis SU
    Janis SU 10 October 2013 10: 38
    +4
    Quote: botsman80
    For "history buffs" who are "stirring up tons of papers" are looking for when it was more I want to remind about the Nishtadt peace treaty. Personally, I like it better. Can we share it?


    This is the first principle. Russia is the legal successor of the Russian Empire and the Soviet Union, and if so, it is not only historically, but also legally true on your side.
  34. kartalovkolya
    kartalovkolya 10 October 2013 10: 55
    +1
    Quote: botsman80
    For "history buffs" who are "stirring up tons of papers" are looking for when it was more I want to remind about the Nishtadt peace treaty. Personally, I like it better. Can we share it?

    The peasants are not peasants, but paper is paper: everything is just like three rubles — from herring you ears and not Kemsk parish! And the border will be where it was in Soviet times!
  35. major071
    major071 10 October 2013 11: 02
    +4
    God forbid, when conducting a demarcation line, we will add a couple of extra centimeters to ourselves. Such a howl will rise in Estonia, even if you plug your ears. And then human rights defenders from all over the geyropa and America will rush to defend Russia from all sides, they will brand Russia as an invader and occupier, which has oppressed and seized the land throughout the history of this misunderstanding on the world map. fool
  36. morpogr
    morpogr 10 October 2013 11: 19
    +4
    Not an inch of land to these ungrateful Chukhons. They should be billed for humiliation of the Russian people and non-citizens, otherwise they completely floated their brains.
    Anecdote on the topic: The Estonian border guard comes to Audi Quattro, in which five ordinary Russian men are sitting.
    - Audi — quatttro. You five. One must get out.
    - What are you, Yo - zeros? Quattro is a four-wheel drive in a wheelbarrow. What does the number of passengers ???
    - I know nothing. Audi Quattro. You five. One must get out.
    “Are you an eccentric?” And what about Quattro and passengers?
    In general, they rubbed the brake for half an hour, that one in no way. Finally ours do not stand up.
    - Call the boss. Got it!
    - The boss is busy. Sooo hard case. Fiat uno, three are going.
    1. peter_shchurov
      peter_shchurov 10 October 2013 22: 53
      -2
      Quote: morpogr
      .Nadu them to expose for the humiliation of the Russian people and non-citizens, and then from the dependence completely floated brains.


      Do you understand ..
      no offense, but your gut is thin-simply, well, Onishchenko, well, the other bells and whistles are cheap there, but nothing more, you yourself understand this very well.
      No, I don’t argue, you’re quite capable of hitting the dwarf Estonian army around the neck, but don’t forget about NATO, which Estonia is against them .. you’ll get a trendset and go, smearing the snot on the hill.
      Internet warriors are usually very bloodthirsty and planktonin through one "fancies himself a strategist" sitting in front of the monitor, but your rulers understand everything perfectly well, and hardly
      in the foreseeable future they will venture to reckon on NATO.

      Remember, at least, how did you merge your sidekick Gaddafi, but the same Serbia, that’s great, you
      "Brother Slavs" helped when NATO bombers were ironing Belgrade?
      1. Theophanes
        Theophanes 13 October 2013 02: 22
        0
        In one, this NATO analysis is right-estonia and it is not worth tearing its throat because of it. Let continue to lick anal Americans and NATO. This is the only thing that they do great! They are not capable of anything else. Natural-born slaves with a slavish philosophy to snatch, steal, quietly gobble up.
  37. Djozz
    Djozz 10 October 2013 11: 28
    +6
    My question is how, having a territorial dispute with Russia, Estonia was admitted to NATO, because it contradicts the charter of this organization, or when you can’t, but really want it, you can!
    1. botsman80
      botsman80 10 October 2013 11: 34
      +2
      NATO needed an air base on the territory of Estonia ... So they "turned a blind eye" to the charter.
  38. Janis SU
    Janis SU 10 October 2013 11: 37
    +5
    Quote: Djozz
    My question is how, having a territorial dispute with Russia, Estonia was admitted to NATO, because it contradicts the charter of this organization, or when you can’t, but really want it, you can!


    We were admitted to NATO at a fast pace, because strategically, and geopolitically, these buffer territories are extremely important. This is not some kind of degrading Georgia, which in fact is not really needed by anyone. So, to tease Russia is the whole point of the existence of its regime. For all that is necessary for the NATO bloc in this region, the complaisant puppet Turkey is quite enough.
  39. dropout
    dropout 10 October 2013 12: 09
    +5
    In the 60s he served urgent in Tallinn. In the Merchant harbor stood.
    I must note that even then curates we were "loved" with all our hearts.
    If they could, then they would crush in the arms.
    1. samoletil18
      samoletil18 10 October 2013 15: 45
      +1
      - Yaaak! You heard, on the radio, the Russians said they would fly to the moon!
      - Everything?
  40. Ulan
    Ulan 10 October 2013 12: 11
    +9
    Well, if Estonians remember the Tartu Treaty, which is convenient for them, then why don’t we remember the Nishtad peace by which Peter the Great bought these lands from Sweden.
    It turns out that this is private property owned by Russia and according to Western democracy there is a fundamental rule - private property is sacred and inviolable.
    We have the right to either demand the return of the private property of Russia or to redeem. How many have run there over the course of 3 centuries?
    1. Muadipus
      Muadipus 10 October 2013 16: 36
      +2
      We have the right to either demand the return of the private property of Russia or to redeem. How many have run there over the course of 3 centuries?
      You mean how many penalties have run for Estonia’s illegal use of someone else’s property? )))
  41. Mareman Vasilich
    Mareman Vasilich 10 October 2013 13: 02
    +1
    There is no land that is not needed.
  42. TAGIR
    TAGIR 10 October 2013 13: 13
    +1
    I am perplexed every time they talk about inaccuracies in state borders. This is in the 21st century where even garden plots have long been determined by GPS boundaries. Each piece of land has a cadastral number and its borders are clearly defined. The time when neighbors divided the land by pegs or a boundary stone, and with the Chinese, it’s been funnier for them along the bed of the high-speed river, has long passed. Why Russia GLONASS contains.
  43. Kibalchish
    Kibalchish 10 October 2013 13: 16
    +8
    Estonia will not give anything. When did they separate the claims were? Not. Screaming, Russians, let us go soon. When did you join NATO? Not. You cannot join NATO with unresolved territorial disputes. Now what the hell are arising?
  44. samoletil18
    samoletil18 10 October 2013 14: 58
    +1
    Here on these 120 hectares of oil will be discovered
  45. samoletil18
    samoletil18 10 October 2013 14: 58
    -1
    Here on these 120 hectares of oil will be discovered
  46. Papania
    Papania 10 October 2013 15: 14
    +2
    I'm afraid it will be the same as with China, and then our fat asses will raise their hands, clap their eyes, and say that it happened ...
  47. helg717
    helg717 10 October 2013 15: 26
    +5
    Secret training exercises of the Estonian Defense Forces on tactics and preventing the tank-motorized breakthrough of the Russian army were conducted at the training ground in Tapa. The exercises involved samples of the equipment of the alleged enemy BTR-80, BMP-1 (donated by the Finns for the museum of equipment, a Russian caterpillar all-terrain vehicle, T-55 tank (rented from Latvia). Also, the Finnish armored personnel carrier was used as an advantage of NATO equipment and for comparison .
    wassat
    1. Misantrop
      Misantrop 10 October 2013 19: 54
      +1
      Quote: helg717
      The exercises involved samples of the equipment of the alleged enemy BTR-80, BMP-1 (donated by the Finns for the museum of equipment, a Russian caterpillar all-terrain vehicle, T-55 tank (rented from Latvia). Also, the Finnish armored personnel carrier was used as an advantage of NATO equipment and for comparison .
      In Soviet times, in the warehouses of the submarine brigade, I saw three steam-powered tractors in Paldiski. On spiked forged wheels and with a hefty folding pipe. According to estimates - the end of the 19th, or the very beginning of the 20th century. It is unlikely that their guys took away when they left. So Estonia has armored vehicles laughing
  48. Troy
    Troy 10 October 2013 15: 29
    +6
    Quote: Luga
    Still Rakvere - Rakovor, Otepya - the Bear's Head, there is still, just now not to remember. In short, only Russians and Germans built in Estonia and Latvia. Moreover, the Germans - fortifications, churches and concentration camps, and the Russians - schools, factories, ports, railways and power plants.
    There are no such countries as Estonia and Latvia. No and never has been. These formations are simply an eructation of the revolution and a consequence of the mess that was going on in the world at that time. Neither Estonians nor Latvians are able to have their own state and have not earned such a right in their entire history. They already have slavery at the genetic level, since the 13 century they are used to licking shoes to the one who at the moment has declared himself their master. Slaves were their great-grandfathers, grandfathers and fathers, their grandchildren would be slaves.
    We don’t have to negotiate with them, agreements are for equals. They need to be put in place. Moreover, to that which we ourselves point out. Politically, economically, physically, finally - to crush, crush and crush reptiles until they crawl, whining like a bob, and then graciously allow them to live a little.

    Sorry, escaped

    Now it escaped, so it escaped! I would put + until the mouse fell apart! This applies to Central Asia. What the heck is Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan and Tajikistan? Until 19th century there was the Kokand and Khiva khanates and the Bukhara emirate with a slave system. And the republics did not smell. And if it were not for the Russian Empire and the USSR, they would still live as in Afghanistan. Although after the departure of the Russians and other Slavic developed peoples, they practically came to this. Poverty, rioting, drugs and banditry.
  49. Corsair
    Corsair 10 October 2013 15: 32
    +1
    The order of Vladimir Putin looks like the following:

    To accept the proposal of the Government of the Russian Federation to sign an agreement between the Russian Federation and the Republic of Estonia on the Russian-Estonian state border and an agreement between the Russian Federation and the Republic of Estonia on the delimitation of sea spaces in the Narva and Finnish bays


    And also it is necessary to "put an end" in the definition of sea borders with Ukraine ...
    How long will this process be in a "suspended state" request , especially in the light of what is happening in Ukraine, the question is becoming more topical.
    1. Glory333
      Glory333 10 October 2013 17: 54
      0
      Minus, the border of Russia - the border of the Lviv and Lutsk regions with Poland - is it really incomprehensible?
      1. Corsair
        Corsair 12 October 2013 11: 41
        0
        Quote: Glory333
        Minus, the border of Russia - the border of the Lviv and Lutsk regions with Poland - is it really incomprehensible?

        Where are you there SEA have you seen? laughing
  50. Muadipus
    Muadipus 10 October 2013 16: 33
    +3
    If the new document is not recognized, then they are guided by the old. Don't recognize the boundaries? Welcome to the borders of the USSR.