- Dmitry Olegovich, are you satisfied with the exhibition?
- The demo program was carefully thought out. At first, there were some rough spots, they were promptly analyzed, corrected, in order to make a more dynamic show, in order to make full use of the audio and television methods of presenting information. Landfill "prospector" has everything necessary for this. This is a different scale, a unique opportunity to show our technology in action, in motion, to show our power.
For us, this is a new experience. Previously, in a good way, they didn’t do this at the exhibition in Nizhny Tagil - there wasn’t much to be proud of, there were few new products. Today, it is extremely important for us to use such kind of dynamic exhibitions, and above all in order to revive in people a feeling of confidence - the conviction that everything that is done in the defense industry is not words, not just a subjunctive mood. We are interested in providing the subjunctive mood in the affirmative evidence.
This year we brought to the show samples of weapons, sometimes not having analogues in the world, but which are mainly the result of a deep unique modernization. At the same time, the combat qualities of the machines increase 1,5 – 2 times. Fundamentally, the new samples will show you in a year. They already exist, I saw them together with Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev at a closed show. I was convinced that we did all this, and I am very pleased that the design offices, engineers, production workers of our leading companies, corporations - such as Uralvagonzavod, KamAZ, Kurganmashzavod, Military Industrial Company - kept their promises. There are prototypes, and these are not just some “skeletons” or skeletons of machines, these are machines that are already on the move, with weapons, control systems, and unique ones. Knowing what the world's leading manufacturers have, I think I can say: our machines are more modern. We hope that in a year we will be able, having carried out all the necessary state tests, to confirm that in the class of armored vehicles the Russian Federation is becoming the leader among world manufacturers. This is a big plus.
You still have to believe my words. But on that stands the closed demonstration that it is for the specialists and the leadership of the country so that it is possible to make important decisions. Customers should evaluate the price range, see the flaws of the equipment, if any, and the developers then have time to fix everything they need. When everything is ready, we will be happy to show you.
- This year, the exhibition organizers pleased several premieres ...
- There was certainly a world premiere - "Terminator-2", this is my favorite. 20 years ago, our army really needed such a machine, and we didn’t have it, I mean famous events in the North Caucasus. If, then, as part of our armored units were machines like the Terminator, we definitely would not have such terrible losses.
Although it is called a support combat vehicle tanks, but, in fact, the spectrum of its application is wider. This is based primarily on the fact that each of the operators, and there are several of them in Terminator-2, sees its purpose and uses the arsenal of saturated weapons that is available on this machine. Unlike a tank, where there is one operator of artillery weapons, on Terminator-2 there are 3 times more combat capabilities. Of course, the calibers are different, but there are more possibilities. It is literally a sheaf of fire. I am sure that the car will have a high export potential. Terminator-1 is a good buy, and I think the sales of Terminator-2 will be even greater. Of course, we are interested in promoting our equipment for export, in developing military-technical cooperation, because it brings us real money, currency. We need this money to re-equip enterprises, raise salaries. This attracts additional specialists who return to the enterprises.
Export is an important factor in the economic balance of enterprises. Civilian orders, an internal defense order and external orders through military-technical cooperation - these are the three components that impart a stable, stable position to the defense industry.
- We are currently working on a new state armaments program for the period from 2016 to 2025? What are its priorities? Will it reflect the tendency to increase the role of combat robotics in the armed struggle?
“You saw machines that were remotely controlled as part of a demonstration in Nizhny Tagil.” One - to extinguish fires, including, for example, on burning arsenals, and the second - security and patrol. I think any specialist will tell you: if we can make a remote-controlled powerful fire engine, then we are able to create any remote-controlled car with the appropriate equipment. These are the elements of robotics.
The fact is that one of the tasks that we set for ourselves, including when forming a new state armaments program, is to save the lives of our soldiers and officers as much as possible, to remove them from under fire, from the shelling sector to the battlefield. Moreover, to ensure that every Russian soldier could fight, conditionally speaking, one after five. This can be done only if the combat unit becomes not just a soldier, but an operator weaponswhen it is remotely spaced at such a distance that the enemy could not hit him, and he in turn could hit, and not one, but five. This is one of the features of the future armament program: the creation of robotics of the most varied - air, ground, underwater and so on.
The second direction is the creation of weapons on new physical principles. As you know, today weapons are built primarily on the use of several types of energy to destroy manpower and technology - kinetic, thermal, chemical. But the XXI century - this is another way to defeat. Weapons will use unconventional forms of defeating targets. Leading world powers are engaged in their development, and we are here, as they say, we must not be blundered.
The third key point is the creation of weapons systems that will be inter-average. Previously, traditionally, the state program of armaments was ordered by the commander-in-chiefs, that is, the leaders of the Armed Forces, in accordance with their understanding and feelings about what is good and what is bad in the area of means of armed struggle. Each of the chief commanders was responsible for their own field of combat use - sea, land, air. Now we will proceed from the fact that modern weapons can work in a variety of environments - water, underwater, air and so on.
This, by the way, was what I had in mind when I spoke in an interview about convergence in perspective aviation and astronautics. Someone, not understanding what was happening, raised a cry that Rogozin, they say, wants to merge Roscosmos and the United Aircraft Corporation. As they say, from a sore head to a healthy one. I said and am talking about scientific and technological progress, which will inevitably erase and will erase more and more differences between environments. For example, future aircraft will be able to rise into the stratosphere. Space technology can now partially work in both environments. Take, for example, the legendary spaceship Buran, which is far ahead of its time. In fact, these spacecraft are the XNUMXst century. Therefore, sooner or later, whether we like it or not, we will have to return to this.
The future weapons program will be innovative, it will be focused on the creation of weapons subordinate to the common logic of their use within the framework of common control systems. That is, there will be an intellectualization of weapons. But in order to proceed to the state program of armaments - 2025, it is necessary to fully implement the LG-2020. Here manilovshchina categorically dangerous.
- At the plenary meeting at the Russia Arms Expo 2013 exhibition, you focused on properly organizing the interaction between applied military and fundamental academic science. Why is it important?
“This needs to be done, because“ to eat away ”and exploit the scientific and technical groundwork created by our fathers and grandfathers, to live at the expense of it, without leaving anything to their children and grandchildren, is just Samoyed. We have no right to do this.
Earlier, by the way, such an approach was justified, because we had to raise everything that was created by the great Soviet science, and implement everything that the Soviet Union could not realize. But if we are talking about truly modern weapons, not updated, but fundamentally new, ahead of this kind of development abroad, then it is necessary to conduct breakthrough research. To do this, firstly, the incentive system for general designers must work so that they are not afraid to take risks. And secondly, if he dares, then he should be able, as they say, to scoop up his academic, fundamental knowledge with his “scoop”. Because many questions will not be solved, if we do not open new fundamental scientific research, we will not be able to understand how to apply new knowledge for our purposes, including for solving defense tasks.
My experience with the branches of the Russian Academy of Sciences showed that, unfortunately, there is no logic in their relationship with industry yet. If we are talking about working on new products, say, robotics, we are well aware that this kind of work pulls a dozen, and sometimes two or three dozen new research works - on materials, on technologies, on power plants, and so on. We will stretch this bridge between applied military science and fundamental science. We organize these works within the framework of a common understanding of what is a promising goal for the development of science in general and, of course, its applied part.
Today, no offense to the Russian Academy of Sciences will be said (I, by the way, its loyal supporter), each academic institute or, let's say, most of them work like this: they come up with some important task for themselves, they implement it themselves, then , implementing, do not know how to apply the groundwork. Take, thrust into the box, and it all lies there further. Limited to publications about new works. And no one will even analyze what has already been done by academic institutions. Between the leading academic institutions and specific general designers who work on the presidential series of weapons and military and special equipment, even contact sometimes does not happen.
- You have repeatedly stated that it is necessary to increase the role of general designers in the military-industrial complex. Why?
- I consider it extremely important to raise the prestige and reputation of the creative class of our Russian defense industry - general designers. He should be a system integrator of all the work of a large enterprise. The general designer is not the one who sits in the last row, but the one who possesses not only knowledge, but also who pushes the enterprise to risk starting new jobs. Before that, random designers, defense officials, who were supposed to organize production, were sometimes appointed as general designers. But the general designer is a scientist, a great scientist.
In the coming months we will hold a general gathering, as they say, “whistle everyone up!”. All general designers will be - approximately 70 people, as well as up to 50 heads of academic institutions. First of all, we will talk about how this new creative class will live, how we will interact, what will be the specialization of academic institutions, what programs will be priority, who could take on the development of fundamental things. It's about new materials, alloys, new ways to create engines or propulsion. In short, from the problems of the microcosm to the macrocosm. All this is extremely important to us in the framework of the HPV-2016 – 2025 target areas, this will be its business card. It will all be based on the demand for Russian fundamental science and on its organization within the framework of a common cause.
The organization of science is, for example, when one major task that is put before an academic institute is divided into several subtasks, which are solved by the institutions of the Russian defense industry or the research institutes of the Ministry of Defense. Next - the basic departments of leading educational institutions - Moscow State Technical University named after Bauman, Moscow State University, St. Petersburg, Yekaterinburg and other scientific and educational centers. That is, the task is divided into these segments, and sometimes to the point that one specific task must be allocated for distribution to students in the form of assignments for theses. In short, the algorithm is as follows: the formation of a single plan, then its fragmentation, segmentation into individual large, medium, small tasks, the organization of distribution of this material, these target cards to all intelligent people from the general designer to the ambitious student who wants to become such a designer. If the military-industrial commission solves this organizational coordination task, I will be very pleased.
- Recently, plans were announced for the creation of three more integrated structures - the United Rocket and Space Corporation, a large holding of automated control systems, communications and intelligence, and an aerospace defense concern. What are the goals for restructuring the defense industry? It is no secret that some experts are skeptical of these plans.
- Skeptics are very pleased with me, because they sometimes ask the right questions. They must be these skeptics. And I will be happy to answer their questions.
Many simply do not understand our entire plan. Yes, we don’t have to tell everyone everything. It will be possible to judge our work in three or four years. You will see that there will be a different situation in the defense industry and in science.
I will explain briefly what is the meaning of this work. What happened in our defense industry in 1990's? Huge enterprises simply went under the hammer - by directors, their sons, grandchildren, and so on. Probably, hundreds of leading institutions and enterprises that are very important for the country were ruined. The unique works that have been conducted since the 1980-s are closed. For example, the work on hypersonic technology was stopped, they say - so as not to annoy the Americans. After that, when something has already died, you will never restore it. Here is an eloquent, I think, example: do you know where the filming of the famous TV show with the stars on the ice takes place? In the assembly shop of a large defense enterprise, which was derived from the defense industry. Now there, except for the rink, there is nothing else. And examples of the mass.
But some of the enterprises still remained afloat, including in private hands. Many in a very severe, depressed state. And our task, which was solved and is being solved - we have not finished it yet - it is the consolidation of these disparate enterprises, the destroyed elements of single technological chains within the framework of large integrated structures. This is not nationalization, not “eating” by the state of industry in its pure form. Not at all. We act quite deliberately: we do not touch what is strongly developing in private hands, on the contrary, we engage in common work. An example of this could be seen, by the way, at an exhibition in Nizhny Tagil: some of the combat modules of armored vehicles demonstrated there were made by two Kovrov enterprises - the Degtyaryov plant and the Kovrov electromechanical plant, which belong to private owners.
The plant named after Degtyarev is an excellent serial plant, very well, clearly fulfilling the defense order. No complaints to him there. Private producers, our tobacco kings, as they say, for the soul (this is not their core business) are engaged in defense. And they do it. These are private traders, they have a lot of money. We will be doing at the Degtyaryov plant including one of the federal centers of combat robotics for the battlefield.
As for the Kovrov Electromechanical Plant, its combat modules — machine-gun turrets — in Nizhny Tagil were demonstrated on the Tiger light armored vehicle. We are based on the "Tiger" make a whole family of light armored vehicles. In the layout with the Kornet anti-tank missile system, virtually one such vehicle, such as a jeep, destroys a tank company with an 0,9 coefficient. By the way, Tiger itself is also a product of a private producer - the Military Industrial Company, which belongs to the business empire of Oleg Vladimirovich Deripaska.
We cooperate with these enterprises, give them orders and thereby demonstrate to other private owners: look - participation in the work in the state brings great dividends, including political ones. For business, this is also important, because he participates in working with the power base of the state — this is useful to him, it expands his capabilities in another profile, the direction of his business. Secondly, the private trader receives money. He risks, but at the expense of mass production, he, as they say, discourages invested funds. And I consider it appropriate to share these risks with the state of private business. Where it is for various reasons - objective, and more often subjective - it does not work, we knock it all together.
- History create a concern "Kalashnikov" from this series?
- To begin with the fact that my predecessor in the military-industrial commission told me, referring cases: the most difficult, depressive situation is in the small arms, special chemistry industries, that is, the production of gunpowder and ammunition industry. These areas I began to do the first thing.
There was an idea to use the national brand “Kalashnikov” to consolidate the shooting industry, to merge the first two enterprises, Izhmash and Izhmekha, and then others. All these enterprises were bankrupt or were in a semi-bankrupt state. Some swindlers there were running from the investigators, then they were caught, and investigative actions were taken on them. Huge debts were hanging at the enterprises. Therefore, we acted here with a hard hand, a red-hot iron. First they joined Izhmash and Izhmekh, then Vyatka-Polyansky Machine-Building Plant Molot, and they formed the Kalashnikov Concern. They gave a big serious order for the “Whirlwind” rocket of the “air – surface” class. The order gives the concern the opportunity to receive working capital. Put on the leadership of an intelligent person. This is Konstantin Busygin, just a risky man, he was good at everything - in Moscow he was the head of the administration of Solntsevo, deputy prefect of the Western administrative district. But he decided to go. I knew him before. I saw, for example, in Yugoslavia at the time. I knew that I could rely on him personally, that I could risk this man. And he organized the case properly.
Now we are getting rid of unnecessary areas at the concern's enterprises. They are disproportionate to the tasks of these areas. There, aircraft carriers can be built, on the "Izhmash", but not automatic machines to collect. In order to save on operating costs, we make more compact production, we establish cross-subsidization of the production of civilian and military weapons.
Consolidated concern, strengthened design potential. Very talented young guys came. And the problem is only one now - not even in machine tools, the problem is in the highly skilled workforce that has left the company in recent years. People received 7 thousand rubles per month. What is the production here? Now raised for 20 thousand rubles, but this is also not enough. All this needs to be raised through orders. Now there is a new line of weapons, the state tests of the AK-12 automatic weapons and other models are ending.
After that we said: and now it is possible, by retaining a controlling stake in the state, to introduce private capital. That is, at first there was a private, fragmented nothing, then the process of consolidation was launched. The state intervened, the establishment of order, the introduction of a unified technical policy, the renewal of production, debt relief, and the receipt of orders began. So, state control, and then again the opening of gateways for the influx of private money - this is our logic, iron logic.
We will continue to act this way, and not only for small enterprises. Where we consider it possible, while maintaining a controlling stake in the state, to attract private capital, yes, of course, this will have to be done. And then an IPO should be exhibited. Because not automata, guns or airplanes compete in the world, but corporations, powerful corporations with their lobbies, with their law firms, with their capabilities to defeat a competitor, and so on.
We must create such corporations. There is no need for the state to keep all this under its own jurisdiction, it is interested in private traders coming with their money and, sharing risks with us, of course, they took on quite strict obligations - fulfilling the state defense order, participating in a single ideological flow, according to which will further develop our defense industry.