Military Review

“In case of a conflict between Turkey and Israel, NATO can block its air defense systems”

75
The reasons why Turkey chose the Chinese air defense systems over the Russian C-300 and the American Patriot were told by the Kommersant correspondent OLGA KUZNETSOVA by the President of the Center for Strategic Studies Bilgesam ATILLA SANDYKLY.


- What are the advantages of the Chinese Hongzi-9 air defense systems over the American Patriot and the Russian C-300?

- The systems "Hongzi-9", which Turkey plans to produce jointly with China, differ from the American Patriot and the Russian C-300. Hongzi-9 is able to detect and destroy missiles unrecognizable by radars.

- Are there any other reasons why Ankara chose the Chinese supplier?

- There are several reasons. In many ways, this is a political decision. Before that, Turkey had already tried to buy systems with similar characteristics from the USA, but the attempts were unsuccessful - Congress had opposed the sale. In addition, Turkey wanted to purchase Predators drones from the US, but again did not get the consent of Congress. It is logical that this time Turkey chose another exporter, instead of waiting for the approval of the United States.

- And economically?

- There are two points. First, Hongzi-9 is significantly cheaper than other air defense systems that participated in the tender. Secondly, the production organization proposed by China is beneficial for Turkey. 40% of products will be produced directly in Turkey with the participation of Turkish companies Roketsan and Aselsan. Due to the fact that the Chinese have agreed to the transfer of technology, Turkish companies will gain experience working with satellite launch systems - this will reduce Turkey’s dependence on other countries.

- Will Chinese air defense systems fully meet the needs of national security?

- The choice in favor of the Chinese complexes just meets these needs. Using NATO's air defense systems, Turkey may face certain restrictions - especially against the background of the deterioration of its relations with Israel. In the event of a conflict with it, NATO can remotely block access to its air defense missile systems. Therefore, Ankara chose the air defense system, which can be used in accordance with its own notions of security and does not depend on anyone.

- In the West, Ankara’s reaction was extremely negative. Is it fraught with problems for Turkey?

“Problems can arise if the United States and NATO insist on the incompatibility of“ Huntsi-9 ”with NATO’s collective defense systems. But it is easy to overcome by developing the necessary software. Another problem is that the Chinese exporter is under US sanctions for cooperating with Iran and North Korea. But these sanctions are one-sided, there are no provisions in international law that would prevent Turkey from purchasing Chinese air defense systems.

- Is Ankara's decision to make a deal with Beijing final?

- No, until the parties have moved to the deal itself. The Turkish authorities may reconsider China’s proposal.
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75 comments
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  1. SAG
    SAG 8 October 2013 07: 54 New
    +1
    Erdogan lives on the dream of recreating the Ottoman Empire, it shows through all of his projects to localize military production in Turkish territory. And I must admit he succeeds well.
    1. mirag2
      mirag2 8 October 2013 08: 11 New
      +6
      It’s not bad to dream. What does he manage to do? He didn’t expand the territory, he didn’t connect peoples, even with Kurds he began to establish relations, and then back ...
      Erdogan’s soup is a bit tough.
      And the military production, so from the First World War, the Turks were Germanophiles, and the Germans arranged for them to manufacture their Mercedes, and so on.
    2. Canep
      Canep 8 October 2013 08: 14 New
      +3
      Quote: SAG
      Erdogan lives the dream of recreating the Ottoman Empire

      He needs to think how to stop the bearded Jahadists at his borders. Maybe it happens that after the next victory of the SA, bearded scum will begin to establish Sharia in his country.
      1. Guun
        Guun 8 October 2013 08: 33 New
        -1
        Moved to Israel, with unofficial support from Ankara - a very possible scenario.
        1. rero
          rero 8 October 2013 13: 02 New
          0
          yes, razmechalsia .. and ischo with the padderzka ankari .. here it’s nadarviotsia this psychopath
      2. hommer
        hommer 8 October 2013 08: 37 New
        16
        Quote: Canep
        The Hongqi 9 is capable of detecting and destroying missiles unrecognizable by radar.


        Some kind of logical problem. And then how does she recognize them?
        Touch, or what?
        Or are there any other methods? Specialists, enlighten!
        1. lewerlin53rus
          lewerlin53rus 8 October 2013 09: 08 New
          29
          Quote: hommer
          Some kind of logical problem. And then how does she recognize them?
          Touch, or what?

          The same question arose. what
          Maybe so?
          1. Metlik
            Metlik 8 October 2013 10: 22 New
            +3
            What is the name of the device? Cheburashka probably.
            1. Andrey Yuryevich
              Andrey Yuryevich 8 October 2013 13: 48 New
              +1
              THING !!! good would buy !!!
          2. APASUS
            APASUS 8 October 2013 21: 52 New
            +4
            Quote: lewerlin53rus
            Maybe so?

            This is an old model, modern looks like this
            1. lewerlin53rus
              lewerlin53rus 8 October 2013 22: 16 New
              0
              Quote: APASUS
              This is an old model, modern looks like this

              No, it's just a more powerful option. It's kind of like a Patriot and a Stinger
            2. Semen Semyonitch
              Semen Semyonitch 8 October 2013 23: 41 New
              0
              Quote: APASUS
              Quote: lewerlin53rus
              Maybe so?

              This is an old model, modern looks like this


              ... and firecrackers there)))
            3. ayyildiz
              ayyildiz 9 October 2013 00: 00 New
              +1
              Or maybe so?
        2. varov14
          varov14 8 October 2013 10: 40 New
          +1
          Ha, I have the same question, I don’t have any secrets in electronics, but according to the logic, it turns out that it is possible to fill up a civilian plane too - they were mistaken.
        3. ed65b
          ed65b 8 October 2013 11: 56 New
          +2
          Oh, they recognize them with binoculars and then knock them out of slingshots.
        4. abrakadabre
          abrakadabre 8 October 2013 13: 53 New
          0
          Probably the contact method - for example, the new Cheops pyramid of armored steel takes strikes on itself and ...
          wassat
          Well you got it ...
      3. eplewke
        eplewke 8 October 2013 10: 03 New
        +5
        I'm honestly glad! Approve! Let them buy Chinese! I would have lined Washington with a league!
        1. Yarik
          Yarik 8 October 2013 11: 07 New
          +2
          We conclude that the UkrSA is slowly, steadily and steadily losing its position in the region. Maybe for the better.
        2. velikoros-xnumx
          velikoros-xnumx 8 October 2013 12: 40 New
          +3
          Quote: eplewke
          I would have lined Washington with a league!

          And along the way we bought weapons, which will not hinder us much if something happens, but there are different cases. I am not an expert, but I hardly believe in the high efficiency of Chinese air defense systems.
        3. ABV
          ABV 9 October 2013 00: 52 New
          0
          It’s a shame that the Chinese and we traveled around ... and yes!
      4. duke
        duke 8 October 2013 11: 31 New
        0
        What for? Erdogan himself is trying to do this ...
    3. domokl
      domokl 8 October 2013 08: 39 New
      +9
      Dreams are not to expand and increase, but to prevent some kind of spring out of the blue. But the main thing in the article is not this, just read it again. The main thing is that for Americans, oh for Europeans in NATO ( lol ) Little Israel is much more important than a member in the form of Turkey. Erdogan just realized that membership does not so much give advantages as it puts the decisions of the government and the president under the control of third countries. And that means there are no democratic values ​​and other democratic values ​​in the future.
      It seems to me that this is just a way to somehow conduct an independent foreign policy.
      1. matross
        matross 8 October 2013 08: 56 New
        +2
        Quote: domokl
        Erdogan just realized that membership is not so much

        Quote: domokl
        how much does

        That's so true! wink
        Erdogan, in contrast to the Euro-dwarfs huddling under the hem of Germany, France and Britain, can and with the nat and integrate, if that. And start your game in alliance with the Chinese, at least even with Russia. Or try to become the new Ottoman Empire (although who will allow him, an eccentric). Turkey is now the trump card that literally everyone wants to play ... Hence the unrest in Istanbul and the Chinese missiles and flirting with the Kurds.
        1. Nitup
          Nitup 8 October 2013 10: 06 New
          +2
          Quote: matRoss
          Or try to become the new Ottoman Empire (although who will allow him, an eccentric).

          Apparently, in the West, Erdogan is promised to be allowed to do this in exchange for certain actions by Turkey. They will deceive, of course, but maybe Erdogan will outplay them. Politics is like that.
      2. Ezhaak
        Ezhaak 8 October 2013 11: 45 New
        +1
        Quote: domokl
        for Americans, oh for Europeans in NATO () is much more important small Israel than a member in the form of Turkey

        And this is a very true remark. Americans and other NATO members are completely unaware of where Turkey’s head will turn tomorrow, but little Israel, though smelly, is always on the side of the Amers. The reason is well known.
    4. duke
      duke 8 October 2013 11: 01 New
      +3
      a curious phrase about a possible conflict with Israel ... and on whose side will NATO be if Turkey is part of this organization? It seems not so simple. In addition, they do not have a common border, so what is Erdogan going to eat Syria and go to the borders of Israel ??? Otherwise, they can act against Israel only from the sea and from the air. It is clear that all these lands were once part of Ottoman Empire 1, but so frankly ... If so, then the new Ottomans will not stop in Syria, who is next ??? If a conflict arises, even powerful Israel will have a tough time, the Americans will have to call and recognize the independence of Kurdistan, and possibly support the soul of Assad ... Now it’s clear why Babama began to flirt with Iran - it seems to be looking for balances. The development of events is also interesting, given the fact that the Saudis are building a caliphate, the Turks will not fall under them, because they also consider their lands to be their own, once they were part of Osmania 1, which means that conflict is inevitable, because no one will yield - price - domination in the Sunni world ...
    5. Aryan
      Aryan 8 October 2013 11: 36 New
      0
      but the topic of why they did not take the s-300, the author of the article did not disclose ...
      1. ayyildiz
        ayyildiz 8 October 2013 11: 43 New
        +4
        Turkey chose Chinese-made HQ-9 anti-aircraft missile systems following the T-Loramids tender for several reasons. This, according to Jane's, said the head of the Secretariat of the defense industry (SSM) of Turkey Murad Bayar. According to him, the most important of them was the lowest cost ─ the Chinese company CPMIEC proposed to supply 12 anti-aircraft systems divisions for 3,044 billion dollars.
        In addition, according to the Chinese proposal, the degree of localization of production of HQ-9, which is an altered copy of Russian C-300P, in Turkey will exceed 50 percent. The Chinese side also promised to start production and supply of anti-aircraft systems in the shortest possible time. At the same time, there will be no difficulties with integrating the systems into the Turkish air defense system and interfacing them with the NATO air defense system.
        According to Bayar, Turkey’s air defense system complies with NATO standards and is closely integrated with the North Atlantic Alliance air defense system. Chinese systems can be connected to the Turkish air defense system and through it interact with NATO air defense, meeting all the necessary requirements. The leak of secret information, which the United States and the NATO leadership fear, will not happen.

        Bayard did not disclose the reasons for the exclusion of C-300 from the competition. Sources in the Turkish military-industrial complex told Jane's that the reason for the exclusion of Rosoboronexport from the tender was the high cost of the proposal (4,5 billion dollars) and the lack of significant investment and offset offers. Such proposals were considered joint production and development, as well as investment in the Turkish economy.
      2. Ezhaak
        Ezhaak 8 October 2013 11: 47 New
        +1
        Quote: Aryan
        why didn’t they take s-300?

        expensive and there will be no localization. And hedgehog understand! laughing
        1. abrakadabre
          abrakadabre 8 October 2013 13: 59 New
          +2
          and there will be no localization
          Gygs, that is, buttons and toggle switches will not be in Turkish
          wassat
          The Chinese are more flexible ... they even localize and adapt to the level of the buyer in Zulu - they will sell a shed in the form of C300 with slingshots on the shelves
      3. abrakadabre
        abrakadabre 8 October 2013 13: 56 New
        0
        Dumping the Chinese
    6. Geisenberg
      Geisenberg 8 October 2013 13: 23 New
      +1
      Quote: SAG
      Erdogan lives on the dream of recreating the Ottoman Empire, it shows through all of his projects to localize military production in Turkish territory. And I must admit he succeeds well.


      In this particular case, the Turks are likely to receive anti-aircraft missile production technology, and this is half the way to space. And as for the empire - to hell with him, he is not eternal, he will leave his post and the Kemalists will take revenge.
  2. mirag2
    mirag2 8 October 2013 07: 56 New
    +2
    Strange. Something I did not notice anything about the conflict between Turkey and Israel.
    Hypothetically, the deterioration of relations, I do not agree. Moreover, more recently, they have been getting closer and closer, albeit at a snail's pace.
    Obviously, the last exacerbation after the Jews defeated the Turkish flotilla of aid for the Palestinians, they managed to resolve the dispute over a gas field near Cyprus.
    And for the flotilla, Israel apologized not so long ago ...
    1. domokl
      domokl 8 October 2013 08: 44 New
      +2
      Quote: mirag2
      Strange. Something I did not notice anything about the conflict between Turkey and Israel.

      Nothing strange. The flotilla is only the visible part of the iceberg. The main thing is under water. Turkey imposes rather stringent conditions on Israel in case of military operations in Syria, Turkey does not agree to use its airfields, its territory, its soldiers.
      It is extremely important for the Americans to have Turkey as their allies for Israel. There are no other large states in the region. Is Iran an ally? lol
      1. duke
        duke 8 October 2013 11: 06 New
        +1
        So Turkey is also that ally, as time has shown ...
  3. bomg.77
    bomg.77 8 October 2013 07: 56 New
    +1
    The Turks also began to kick! I think in Turkey it is worth waiting for the continuation of the uprising on the square, the so-called "liberal" forces.
    1. mirag2
      mirag2 8 October 2013 08: 07 New
      +1
      So after all, they seemed to be hanging around all summer ...
      And the Turks do not consider themselves Western vassals, and in politics they are quite independent and courageous.
      They don’t take them to the EU, but how did they tear them up! They did everything for this. And also with these systems they didn’t sell what they wanted — well, hey with you — we’ll buy from the Chinese. Not so boldly (so that buy from us the S-300 gut thin-too obvious confrontation with NATO) -but still ...
      1. Andrey57
        Andrey57 8 October 2013 08: 33 New
        +3
        So we didn’t buy C-300 for the same reason - ours can be blocked via satellite in the same way, but this isn’t for the Turks laughing and the stories about the fact that Chinese systems stripped from ours see something that they don’t see three hundred are very funny fellow
        1. Nitup
          Nitup 8 October 2013 10: 13 New
          +2
          Quote: Andrey57
          So we didn’t buy C-300 for the same reason - ours can be blocked via satellite in the same way, but this isn’t for the Turks laughing and the stories about the fact that Chinese systems stripped from ours see something that they don’t see three hundred are very funny fellow

          Maybe the Turks would be happy to buy our systems, but they understand that relations with the West are strained only while Putin is in power. If he is replaced by another liberal, then in the event of a conflict with Israel or even with the United States (who knows, today he’s friends and tomorrow ...) Russia may also block its systems. And in China, the political system is more stable and predictable, so the Turks decided to buy Chinese complexes
        2. abrakadabre
          abrakadabre 8 October 2013 14: 03 New
          0
          the Thai systems, stripped from ours, see something that they don’t see three hundred - well, it’s very funny
          Yes, it’s easy: in fact, to prevent combat work, put video surveillance cameras so that the operators of the neighborhood watch out. To someone what cable or something else did not stole sneaking up. Here are the "see" enhancements
      2. bomg.77
        bomg.77 8 October 2013 12: 05 New
        0
        Quote: mirag2
        So after all, they seemed to be hanging around all summer ...
        More active hats
        Quote: mirag2
        a clear confrontation with NATO), but still ...
        And we do not mind that NATO had a confrontation)) Still the Germans and the French, split off from them, it would be generally normal. lol
  4. Essenger
    Essenger 8 October 2013 08: 02 New
    +5
    Don't wait for Uncle Sam's encouragement forever.
    1. ayyildiz
      ayyildiz 8 October 2013 11: 27 New
      +1


      Turkey itself is developing medium-range air defense! 04.10 tested launchers! Not rockets
  5. Troy
    Troy 8 October 2013 08: 17 New
    +2
    Quote: SAG
    Erdogan lives on the dream of recreating the Ottoman Empire, it shows through all of his projects to localize military production in Turkish territory. And I must admit he succeeds well.

    Now many countries live like dreams. Poles with their "from mozh to mozh", Romania and Hungary are looking towards Ukraine. These ideas are expressed by politicians of a small rank, but who gives a guarantee that the ideas of the government of these countries are simply conveyed through them. The official authorities simply cannot say this in order to avoid political friction. For this we have Zhirinovsky. Who would have thought that the statements of the Ukrainian opposition for integration into the EU trade system are not nonsense. Yanukovych was a supporter of Russia, but in fact, what turned out to be?
    1. michajlo
      michajlo 8 October 2013 12: 55 New
      +1
      Troy (1) RU Today, 08:17 AM New
      ... Simply the authorities cannot say this in order to avoid political friction. We have for this there is Zhirinovsky. Who would have thought that statements of the Ukrainian opposition for integration into the EU trading system are not nonsense. Yanukovych was a supporter of Russia, But in fact, what happened?

      Good day to all!

      Your comment is very accurate, good a lot of the “stupid” phrases that remain are still words, and then something turns out to be a "sick truth"!
  6. major071
    major071 8 October 2013 08: 30 New
    +4
    The Hongqi-9 systems that Turkey plans to produce together with China differ from the American Patriot and Russian C-300. The Hongqi 9 is capable of detecting and destroying missiles unrecognizable by radar.
    Here you have it again ... And I thought that we had amer systems better.
    1. Guun
      Guun 8 October 2013 08: 38 New
      +2
      When developing military equipment in China, advisers and design bureaus from Russia and Ukraine participate, plus many prototypes of the USSR leaked there - there is nothing to be surprised at; they themselves help them become more powerful and more technologically advanced. Money in bulk, labor is cheap so far - the Chinese USSR will still be a bit.
      1. BBM
        BBM 8 October 2013 20: 53 New
        +2
        Has already. Only one difference is that the leaders do not hold on to the bagel until the kondrashki, but retire according to Soviet standards - being, by Soviet standards, what the hell ...
    2. aksakal
      aksakal 8 October 2013 08: 42 New
      +2
      Quote: major071
      "Hongqi-9" is capable of detecting and destroying missiles that are unrecognizable by radars. Here you are again ... And I thought that we had amer systems better

      - in general, if you evaluate, in the aggregate, then you thought correctly. But in some local properties and skills, any other manufacturers can surpass the leaders, these are their technical chips and know-how. Here it is necessary to explain how this "hunzi" detects missiles unrecognizable by radars, on what physical principles?
      1. military
        military 8 October 2013 12: 06 New
        0
        Quote: aksakal
        Here it is necessary to explain how this "hunzi" detects missiles unrecognizable by radars, on what physical principles?

        hi and what is “recognition”? ... no more than determining (classifying) the type of target based on the analysis of the spectrum structure of the reflected echo ... detection always precedes recognition ("there may be a cow without milk, but there can be no milk without cows ") ... and the recognition result, if it is possible to quickly disable the built-in hardware-software locks of the start-up circuits, absolutely does not affect the probability of defeat ...
        By the way ... he is a Turk, and in Africa, the Turks ... laughing
    3. varov14
      varov14 8 October 2013 11: 11 New
      +1
      It is capable of detecting and destroying, but is recognized by debris and by seats with former passengers on the ground.
  7. koksalek
    koksalek 8 October 2013 08: 41 New
    0
    And in the event of an aggravation of relations with China, will they, in turn, also be able to remotely disable their systems?
    1. Nitup
      Nitup 8 October 2013 10: 15 New
      +1
      Quote: koksalek
      And in the event of an aggravation of relations with China, will they, in turn, also be able to remotely disable their systems?

      yes, if you set bookmarks in advance. So we should, if we sell S-300 to Iran, set bookmarks on them.
      1. varov14
        varov14 8 October 2013 11: 21 New
        +1
        Hey, electronics engineers, you are not developing the air defense system in the wrong direction. It is necessary that upon approaching a foreign missile rests against the "wall" of the "radio interference" and breaks down, self-destructing or changing the direction of flight.
        1. military
          military 8 October 2013 12: 30 New
          +1
          Quote: varov14
          It is necessary that upon approaching a foreign missile rests against the "wall" of the "radio interference" and breaks down, self-destructing or changing the direction of flight.

          or, at least, into a rubber mesh that would throw it back ... laughing
  8. Wedmak
    Wedmak 8 October 2013 10: 19 New
    +3
    The Hongqi 9 is capable of detecting and destroying missiles unrecognizable by radar.

    That is, we can assume that Hongqi simply can not recognize? After all, detecting and identifying a target are two different things.
    1. military
      military 8 October 2013 12: 32 New
      0
      Quote: Wedmak

      That is, we can assume that Hongqi simply can not recognize? After all, detecting and identifying a target are two different things.

      hi "recognize" and "recognize" - also ... drinks
  9. faraon
    faraon 8 October 2013 10: 22 New
    +1
    A good article fully reflects the entire political aspect and ambitions of Turkey to create a great Ottoman Empire. But there is a fly in the ointment. Not for this, the United States dragged Turkey to Nato so that it would buy S-300 from China, it could dictate the conditions of the United States. I was struck one fact in the article where it says that China handed over documentation for the production of these complexes. That is, bypassing Russia, he sold Russian intellectual property as his own. And the second, taking advantage of the friendly attitude of Russia, he transferred these complexes to a potential enemy of the Russian Federation.
    Well, what the states want or not is all behind the scenes games that are not intended for mortals for us. Why do I say members of the NATO countries included in the collective security treaty according to the rule should all be adjusted to the NATO standard, including weapons.
    1. smersh70
      smersh70 8 October 2013 11: 04 New
      -1
      Quote: faraon
      fully reflects the entire political aspect and ambitions of Turkey to create a great Ottoman Empire


      at least, Turkey did not wage war with its neighbors ... and did not occupy other people's lands .... and did not populate its citizens in the occupied territories under the guise of what you see is not enough land ..... fool
      1. duke
        duke 8 October 2013 11: 26 New
        +2
        but you Turks, even in the last century, constantly waged wars with your neighbors, they live and settled in the territory of Byzantium seized by force, otherwise where did Islam come from and where did the Byzantine Greeks go, as well as in Bosnia, Albania, Bulgaria, Crimea, the Caucasus, etc. - just look at the map of the Ottoman Empire, which ate Hungary, part of Poland and Serbia and Romania and Armenia and Georgia and Greece and Egypt and Arabia and Syria, even at one time was able to occupy Vienna - are you talking about that ??? Even in Korea, Turkish units fought. In Azerbaijan there is such a saying - we are Muslims from the sword ... So in this case, the Pharaoh is right ...
        1. smersh70
          smersh70 8 October 2013 12: 30 New
          +1
          Quote: duke
          even in the last century


          during the time of Shakespeare, they didn’t smoke “Friend” cigarettes)))) I'm talking about the 20th century ... at 19 Israel wasn’t either .. hi
          1. rero
            rero 8 October 2013 13: 06 New
            +3
            and that in the 21st century, Turkey does not occupy the historical lands of Georgia, Greece and the lands of the Kurds?
            1. smersh70
              smersh70 8 October 2013 13: 58 New
              -1
              Quote: rero
              Turkey does not occupy the historical lands of Georgia, Greece and the lands of the Kurds



              I beg !!!!!!!!!! just not about the historical lands ...... wassat and if we start digging right now, I will prove that Jerusalem belonged to my great-grandfather ........ bully and if the bass and neighbors catch up, then they will say that the whole Universe belongs to them))))
              and against my argument that Turkey in the 20th century did not wage war with its neighbors .... you have nothing to oppose)))))) ... better free the Palestinian land !!!!!
              1. Tourist Breakfast
                Tourist Breakfast 8 October 2013 14: 42 New
                +3
                and against my argument that Turkey in the 20th century did not wage war with its neighbors .... you have nothing to oppose)))))) ... better free the Palestinian land !!!!!

                But what about the Turkish invasion of Cyprus and its subsequent partition?
              2. rero
                rero 9 October 2013 03: 20 New
                +1
                the conflict with Cyprus beat the 20th century .. what about the "Palestinian lands": Islam and the Palestinians didn’t beat the waabshe at all when the Israel kingdom existed. The 48th Israel Saglasils divided, but the Arabs attacked and 6 Arab states attacked Israel and played ..and, up to the year 67, those lands on which the Palestinian Hachiat Sazdat sazdat their state was beaten under the cantrol of Egypt and Jordan, but why didn’t they give the Palestinians statehood .. so morality is not read to Israel here
          2. duke
            duke 8 October 2013 14: 46 New
            0
            actually we live in the 21st century hi Turkey’s participation in the 1st World War 1914-1918 on the side of Germany is a fact, actually it was in the 20th century. hi
            1. smersh70
              smersh70 8 October 2013 17: 36 New
              +3
              Quote: duke
              actually we live in the 21st century


              so no brainer .... I'm talking about the Republic of Turkey ...
              Quote: duke
              Turkey's participation in the 1st World War 1914-1918 on the side of Germany - fact


              above already said ...
        2. VDV 80-82
          VDV 80-82 8 October 2013 19: 45 New
          0
          Actually, the Turks are the former Greeks of the Byzantines who converted to Islam! plus the masses of Armenians, Kurds ... and many other nations.
      2. Arminian power
        Arminian power 8 October 2013 15: 30 New
        -2
        Quote: smersh70
        at least Turkey did not wage war with its neighbors ... and did not occupy foreign lands
        negative fool
  10. borisjdin1957
    borisjdin1957 8 October 2013 11: 00 New
    0
    from the Don.
    And in my opinion, Erdogan is simply blackmailing his allies in NATO! Such ambitions, and with the EU so far, which year has passed, and here the regional committee cuts the supply of modern weapons. Jews are more expensive to anyone!
  11. vkrav
    vkrav 8 October 2013 11: 11 New
    0
    Quote: borisjdin1957
    .Not for that, the United States dragged Turkey to NATO

    Initially, the Turks planned in NATO as cannon fodder against the USSR. By the way, in the Korean War, the Turkish contingent was considered the most combat-ready ... And now, neither NATO nor Russia needs a strong and independent Turkey ... And they won’t go to Israel (according to at least as long as us on horseback) ... They are more interested in Cyprus and the Balkans.
  12. Ross
    Ross 8 October 2013 11: 23 New
    0
    Quote: Canep
    Quote: SAG
    Erdogan lives the dream of recreating the Ottoman Empire

    He needs to think how to stop the bearded Jahadists at his borders. Maybe it happens that after the next victory of the SA, bearded scum will begin to establish Sharia in his country.

    Erdogan and the Islamist himself. Muslim brothers.
  13. ed65b
    ed65b 8 October 2013 12: 01 New
    0
    all plus nothing to add hi
  14. ilyich
    ilyich 8 October 2013 12: 20 New
    0
    The Hongqi 9 is capable of detecting and destroying missiles unrecognizable by radar.

    Apparently, the following is meant:
    The Type-120 low-flying target detection radar is designed to detect and measure target coordinates at low altitudes in a complex jamming environment, including cruise missiles with small reflective surfaces.

    Type-120 is part of the complex.
    Of course, the Chinese greatly surprised everyone, apparently. However, given the fact that their development is a replica of our S-300PMU-1 and
    Type 120 radar performs the same role as the low-altitude detector 76N6 of the S-300PMU-1 complex.
    - Apparently - there is nothing unique there, the same headlamp, well, maybe less or more emitters.
    Advertising is such an advertisement :)
    1. hommer
      hommer 8 October 2013 13: 13 New
      +1
      The Hongqi 9 is capable of detecting and destroying missiles unrecognizable by radar.

      Quote: ilyich
      The Type-120 low-flying target detection radar is designed to detect and measure target coordinates at low altitudes in a complex jamming environment, including cruise missiles with small reflective surfaces.



      Sorry, not a specialist, I did not quite understand. Is this type 120 radar not considered a radar?
      1. Wedmak
        Wedmak 8 October 2013 13: 31 New
        0
        Is this 120 type of radar not considered a radar?

        Chinese fake!
  15. ilyich
    ilyich 8 October 2013 13: 29 New
    +1
    Quote: hommer
    The Hongqi 9 is capable of detecting and destroying missiles unrecognizable by radar.

    Quote: ilyich
    The Type-120 low-flying target detection radar is designed to detect and measure target coordinates at low altitudes in a complex jamming environment, including cruise missiles with small reflective surfaces.


    Sorry, not a specialist, I did not quite understand. Is this type 120 radar not considered a radar?


    Apparently, the author should be read as "not recognizable by OTHER / OLD radars capable of detecting only a much higher level of reflected echo. In short, the Chinese boast that they were able to repeat the achievements of twenty years ago :)
  16. In the reeds
    In the reeds 8 October 2013 13: 30 New
    0
    Quote: vkrav
    Quote: borisjdin1957
    .Not for that, the United States dragged Turkey to NATO

    Initially, the Turks planned in NATO as cannon fodder against the USSR. By the way, in the Korean War, the Turkish contingent was considered the most combat-ready ... And now, neither NATO nor Russia needs a strong and independent Turkey ... And they won’t go to Israel (according to at least as long as us on horseback) ... They are more interested in Cyprus and the Balkans.

    You take care of the Balkans, And the Turks will not get Cyprus anymore do not doubt it is our concern
    1. duke
      duke 8 October 2013 14: 47 New
      0
      well, if so, you really take care laughing
    2. vkrav
      vkrav 9 October 2013 00: 32 New
      -1
      Quote: In the reeds
      And the Turks will not receive Cyprus anymore, do not hesitate, this is our concern

      But what about Northern Cyprus - militant training camps, arms depots, and indeed the base of smugglers and other illegal illegality? Something did not hear that someone bombed them, announced UN sanctions, unleashed a war against them - well, at least information ? The Turks, not really hiding, take out all their not quite legal affairs - very convenient and close ...
  17. knn54
    knn54 8 October 2013 13: 56 New
    0
    The winner of the Chinese complex is a clone of the Russian S-300 system, which makes the situation with this tender unpleasant for the Russian Federation. Need to draw conclusions! Now China is ready to purchase S-400. . They have new technological equipment and production discipline at their best.
    By the way, Chinese complexes are limited in capabilities and depend on the supply of parts from Russia, they themselves do not hide it. The Chinese have problems with solid-fuel engines, which affects the speed of the HQ-9 missiles.
    PS In the event that the Russian proposal (Antei-2500) is selected, the Russian side will commit itself to the joint production of a new generation anti-aircraft missile system for the needs of the Turkish armed forces ...
  18. Mikhail m
    Mikhail m 8 October 2013 15: 08 New
    0
    In the event of a conflict with him, NATO may remotely block access to its air defense systems.

    Problems may arise if the US and NATO insist on the incompatibility of the Hongqi-9 with NATO's collective defense systems. But this is not difficult to overcome by developing the necessary software.

    And in this case, NATO can remotely block access to its air defense systems?
  19. igor67
    igor67 8 October 2013 16: 07 New
    +1
    Interestingly, purely hypothetically, how will Turkey attack Israel, first occupy Syria, Lebanon? Plus, Turkish planes do not see Israeli as a stranger, so the Chinese want complexes,
    1. ayyildiz
      ayyildiz 8 October 2013 17: 36 New
      0
      Quote: igor67
      Interestingly, purely hypothetically, how will Turkey attack Israel, first occupy Syria, Lebanon?


      Why should Turkey attack Israel? In my opinion, some who do not see sleepyheads!
      1. igor67
        igor67 8 October 2013 19: 47 New
        +2
        Quote: ayyildiz
        Quote: igor67
        Interestingly, purely hypothetically, how will Turkey attack Israel, first occupy Syria, Lebanon?


        Why should Turkey attack Israel? In my opinion, some who do not see sleepyheads!

        So about the same thing, even during the conflict over the “world flotilla”, the problem was only at the level of Erdogan, and probably probably the opposite, at that time Turkey received tanks and drones, and economic relations, tourism, someone wants at least some sort of but wars in the middle east
        1. ayyildiz
          ayyildiz 8 October 2013 19: 52 New
          +2
          Quote: igor67
          Turkey also received drones, and economic relations, tourism, someone wants at least some kind of war in the Middle East


          Yes, trade in turnover has risen between the two states! I think there are some differences about gas, but I think that they will soon agree!
          The flotilla in my opinion was an advertisement for the Arabs!
  20. In the reeds
    In the reeds 8 October 2013 17: 28 New
    +1
    Quote: igor67
    Interestingly, purely hypothetically, how will Turkey attack Israel, first occupy Syria, Lebanon? Plus, Turkish planes do not see Israeli as a stranger, so the Chinese want complexes,

    The Turks could play on the border, which they did safely, but capture ... What they have long dreamed of. Syria is their dream with oil, gas. And in general, their land, as they see it. Yes, even prevented. Maybe our unpredictable arrogance.
    1. ayyildiz
      ayyildiz 8 October 2013 18: 46 New
      +3
      [quote = In the reeds] Syria is their dream with oil, gas. [/ quot

      When does Mosul and Kirkuk eat for what Syria? Moreover, both cities are Turkmen!
  21. Ddhal
    Ddhal 8 October 2013 19: 36 New
    +1
    While the two neighbors were fighting at the boundary fence, Big Brother moved his other 5 cm to them from the back ...
  22. alone
    alone 8 October 2013 21: 30 New
    +3
    Turkey has recently been creating new lines of defense industry production at a very fast pace. I think that the main role in deciding the choice of the Chinese air defense system was played by the fact that the Chinese did not refuse to familiarize them with the production technologies. And this is significant + in such transactions. Western weapons, preferring to create their own, only positive. this means the gradual withdrawal of the western defense industry from Turkey. but what is bad for the West is good for all of us))
    1. APASUS
      APASUS 8 October 2013 21: 58 New
      +1
      Quote: lonely
      , in deciding the choice of the Chinese air defense system, the main role was played by the fact that the Chinese did not refuse to familiarize them with the production technologies. And this is significant + in such transactions.

      Turkey began to receive refusals to purchase modern weapons; the way out is to establish its own.
      I don’t even hypothetically consider the conflict between Turkey and Israel. The Turks most likely hinted that the choice will fall not on him and Turkey itself can really do something only in a limited region ............. the choice is right, build your military-industrial complex !
    2. Katsin1
      Katsin1 21 October 2013 08: 13 New
      +1
      What is bad for the West is very bad for Azerbaijan. If Iran and Turkey strengthen, and the West is weakened, no, Azerbaijan shrieks Joan and does not choke ...
  23. Marconi41
    Marconi41 9 October 2013 00: 42 New
    0
    Yes, all this nonsense! Chinese is bought because it is cheaper and it is possible to produce at home, in addition to receive new technologies. By target recognition - I think we are talking about identification equipment which, among other things, "prohibits" complexes from shooting at their own (they are afraid of bookmarks in this topic). And on the account of the "great" confrontation between Turkey and Israel, there is nothing to say, there are no common borders and are not expected.
  24. scientist
    scientist 9 October 2013 02: 33 New
    0
    This is not politics, but simple and reasonable pragmatism. Turkey during the conflict in Cyprus very toughly stepped on the rake of NATO. Therefore, the Turkish military is primarily concerned about technological independence and is buying military technology.
    For almost 5 years, Turkey has announced a tender for the acquisition of a long-range air defense system with the condition of technology transfer. But neither the United States nor Russia agreed to this. Now China agreed. I think in 2-3 years the Turkish air defense systems will be no worse than the Chinese.