Military Review

If the USSR survived ...

193
If the USSR survived ...In this article I want to try to talk about how the citizens of Russia would live if the USSR was saved.


Most economists recognize that as a result of liberal reforms, the country did not reach the standard of living of the USSR - a very characteristic fact that had previously been carefully camouflaged by democrats and liberals. And what would have happened if the reformers hadn’t (or hadn’t given the people) destroyed the socialist system? ". If it were not for the reforms of the 1987-1991 of the year, the level of GNP in Russia would be more than 1,8 times now.

In present-day Russia, the richest 20% receive almost two-thirds of the national income going to consumption, while by 1987, this share did not exceed 30%.

If so, it turns out that by simply returning to the principles of distribution that existed during the years of Soviet power, one can increase the standard of living of 2% of Russians almost 80 times. In the process of liberal reform of the Russian economy, the share of spending on an apartment has sharply increased. Previously, during the years of Soviet rule, a person received 200 rubles on average and then, after 7 years (on average), he was given a two-room apartment (on average) for free, and the utility payments for such a person did not exceed 10% of his salary, now buy an apartment for 80,% of the population is almost impossible to do, and the share of utility payments in wages has increased to 20-30%, and even more. If we take into account the impossibility of buying apartments, then we can accept that due to the twist of flat money real wages should be reduced by 25-35%.

Almost 30% of the income spent on consumption, provided by rising oil prices, and if so, why not accept that the USSR would receive the same income from oil. If the USSR had not been destroyed and, therefore, the distribution of the consumed share of national income would have remained the same (and it was more or less stable for more than 30 years) and if the price of oil grew at the same pace, then 80% of Russians would live in 4 -6 times (pessimistic and optimistic scenarios, respectively) are better than they are now (without an increase in oil prices, this figure is four.

When the task is to give a forecast of Soviet GDP on 20 years, as if we were in 1985, it is easiest to allow the economy to grow at a constant rate and take the pace that corresponded to the previous decade or two. An econometric base for this is available (although, of course, if you parse the real data, then some particular difficulties may emerge). There is nothing prejudicial about such an extrapolation. The use of projection is justified; in this case, the best conditional estimate of the future (for the point in time 1985) is a linear trend obtained on the basis of information about the previous dynamics of the variable of interest.

Predicting US GDP growth calculated by this method for 1985-2005 based on 1947-1985 data gave a very good result. On 20 years ahead, the model was mistaken for 14% in comparison with reality. So, US GDP growth is not so badly predicted based on such a simple model with a constant growth rate.

WAS THE ECONOMIC CRISIS IN THE USSR IN 1985 YEAR?

Liberals may argue: - "Well, let's say that forecasting based on statistics is possible and even quite acceptable is the use of linear models, but the USSR was special - it was hit by a deep crisis. And if so, the use of linear models to predict the growth of the USSR is unacceptable. " That is, to assert that the USSR was in a state of crisis before 1985 for the year. But is it?

The system in the USSR was stable and for decades provided a very high increase in national income. In 1979-1988 it reached a state of stable dynamic equilibrium — the USSR gave an average of 3-3,5% annual growth in national income. The country cannot develop faster, since the labor reserve has been exhausted, and the working day is limited to 40 hours per week (after the murder of Stalin by Khrushchev, the working week in the USSR was reduced from 48 hours to 40 hours), and the rapid increase in output standards and control of the result Intellectual labor is categorically not taken by the workers themselves. Growth was in spite of the fact that oil prices between 1982 and 1986 over the years have fallen 6,8 times, despite Brezhnev’s “insanity”, Andropov’s rush to bring order, Chernenko’s accession, Gorbachev’s publicity.

More and more countries are buying Soviet aircraft. Space, unified power grid, unified system of railways. Self-sufficiency in culture and tourism (such heights in culture as the USSR has reached, especially in the field of art for children, we will never reach). Even Canada bought Soviet hydro-turbines, with the proviso that this was not written in the press. Soviet education is the best in the world, the number of registered inventions in the USSR exceeded their total number in the rest of the world, and these were truly new technical solutions. Indeed, not all of them were introduced, but this is a huge creative potential. Science in the USSR ranked second in the world, although it had problems of growth.

The economy of the USSR looked good against the background of the developed countries of the West. So, in 1990, the USSR produced per capita 5964 KWh of electricity, the USA - 12659; Great Britain - 5543; Italy - 3765. The gas per capita was produced by 2624 cubic meters, in the USA - 2021, in Great Britain - 871, in Italy - 278. Meat was produced 69 kg per person, in the US - 123, in the UK - 66, in Italy - 64. It can be seen that the standard of living in the USSR practically did not differ from that in the leading countries of Europe, although it was lower than in the USA, Germany and Japan. The level of technological development of the USSR was also comparable to that of the leading countries of the West.

If we compare the average annual per capita income in international dollars (at purchasing power parity) 1988, then it turns out that from 1950, the per capita national income in the US increased from 6430 dollars to 14000 dollars in 1988, while in the USSR it increased 3,9 times - from 1750 dollars to 6750 dollars, which means that the Soviet economy grew 2 times faster than the US. The American directory of Soviet Economic Structure and Performance gives similar ratios of the USSR and the USA. For example, according to this guide, per capita national income in the USSR was 8363 dollars, and in the US - 18180 dollars. And Czechs and Slovaks (and East Germans) lived under socialism much better than Soviet citizens. Do you know why? They received annually 15 million tons of oil from the USSR - for one third of the price on the world market.

So, as a result of the living creativity of the masses, a new type of living arrangement was formed in the USSR, which lay in line with the basic traditions of Russian organizational technologies, adapted to the modern geopolitical conditions of the country. We call such a political-economic system socialism. Its important features are the combination of economic and administrative, tax and business functions in a single economical management structure, so that a significant part of the social product was directly seized by the state without using the classical tax mechanism and was directed to the needs of the country. The distribution of wealth in a socialist society was carried out taking into account feasibility for the country as a whole. Such a system needed centralized planning, which had certain solvable drawbacks due to the difficulty of accounting for all information and because of the difficulty of reconciling the different interests of the center and periphery.

In the Soviet economic system there were several key decisions given by Russia's geopolitical features: elimination of capital outflow from the country through the monopoly of foreign trade, strict financial control and restrictions on exit; economical and recognized by all the mechanism of coordination of interests in society, performed by the CPSU; the rapid elimination of deficiencies and the adjustment of policy by the Soviets and the CPSU with the help of the press and state security organs; availability of a system for restraining the comprador elimination of the elite with the help of state and party organs. There were valuable money in circulation, but they were separated from the production of means of production, which made it possible not to be afraid of financial crises. The peculiarity of the institute of property under socialism was its multi-level character with a wide division of ownership rights to bundles. Socialism solved the problem of justice on both an individual and national level. Even critics of the Soviet economic system recognize that, for all its flaws, “it was a solid and stable system. And one of the properties of a sustainable system is the rejection of alien elements, which is what happened with cost accounting, Kosygin reforms. Their system was emasculated, cut and digested. "(1

The planned economic management system successfully solved the problems of scientific and technological progress, and the planning deficiencies were compensated by the administrative market (or rather, the administrative-market adjustment of the deficiencies of the planned distribution) —the mixed economy made it possible to mitigate, though not without flaws, many of the disadvantages associated with the inadequacy of the equalization distribution system , proclaimed official ideology.

In the 1978-1988, the USSR no longer had any serious conflict with the West, a security agreement was signed. And the mobilization development is almost over.

So, an analysis of the growth trends of natural production indicators shows that there were no signs of a crisis in the Soviet economy. Due to a centralized change in the structure of investments, improvement of production organization, reduction of losses and other methods, the crisis, according to some Russian and Western experts, and a decrease in the average annual increase in national production income could be postponed for another 5-10 years. It turns out that a real crisis (if we accept that it was inevitable, although this is not true) in the Soviet economy would have begun not earlier than 2005-2010.

Here it is necessary to take into account a very important fact, which the critics of the USSR deliberately get along with - after the murder of Stalin, the working week decreased from 48 to 40 hours, that is, the base for economic growth was reduced by 20%. Nevertheless, during the 60-70 years, the USSR maintained almost the same growth rates as under Stalin. The basis of this breakthrough was a sharp increase in spending on science.

According to official data, the national income of the USSR increased from 1950 to 1960 a year in 2,7 times, and from 1960 to 1984 a year to 3,7 times. By the year 2000, if the same tendency of absolutely linear growth of wages and GNP continued, then wages would increase 3 times compared to 1960 year, whereas GNP would increase 4 times, if we assume that investments in the USSR were about 35%, it turns out the ideal work of the economy and financial bodies. All this suggests that the USSR-85 was an absolutely healthy economy. Moreover, even those negative trends that existed were easily stopped due to an increase in spending on innovation activities. For example, the 12 billion rubles (in 200 prices) were allocated to the program for the modernization of the machine-building complex in the 1985-m five-year plan - two times more than in the previous ten years.

According to a well-informed member of the Gorbachev Politburo, E. Ligachev, the measures taken by the government had an effect. In the industry, the growth rate of production in 1986-88. amounted to approximately 4% compared to 3% in the XI five-year period, in agriculture, respectively, 3 and 1%. In the Gorbachev era, it was possible to increase the input of housing from about 300 million square meters. in 1981-1985 to 343 million square meters in 1986-1990 on RSFSR. Over 1986-1988, the average 128 million sq. M. m housing. A significant increase was achieved in the construction of residential buildings, which was not the case during the previous two five-year plans. Western economists unanimously claimed and argued that the Soviet economic system had significant economic reserves in the 1991 year, but the country's leaders did not even try to use them. "Why? - asks Vilkotsky, and he himself answers - “The answer suggests itself only one - the nomenclature needed to destroy the Soviet Union and create a convenient state system on its ruins.”

Many believe that the Soviet economy, that in Stalin, that in Khrushchev, that in the Brezhnev version, could not grow at all - there was no evolutionary mechanism. Only it turned out that moving science and technology, but over time, slower and slower. Meanwhile, a thorough analysis shows that the Soviet economy was just growing due to huge investments in public education.

Reformers of different persuasion, who called to the market (and those who are calling now, just not to the bad, as in today's Russia, but to the good), do not provide for scientific and technical progress. In the present conditions, any market system without the state’s great efforts to invest in innovation and science would inevitably, perhaps after some short-term improvement, lead to a new crisis.

some economists introduce the concept of a crime rate acceptable to the people. This is the optimal ratio for the growth and stable development of the price of measures to combat crime and its damage. When the cost of strengthening the fight against crime exceeds the reduction of damage from crime as a result of additional control measures, further strengthening the fight becomes meaningless.

In 1987, the last year before the reform, in the RSFSR 9,2 thousand murders or attempted murders were committed, 33,8 thousand looting and robberies. Expanded reproduction of crime was not !!! From the data presented in the USSR 1990 statistics collection, it is clear that the role of the shadow economy was minimal. With the total money income of the population in 493,5 billion rubles, in 1988, the blessings worth 502,9 billion rubles were consumed. The excess was less than 2%. Again almost perfect indicator.

Note for comparison that in 2011, 14,3 was registered in thousands of murders and 147,9 in thousands of thefts and robberies. The number of grave and especially grave crimes has been fluctuating at the level of 1,8 million per year for many years (besides, the proportion of those crimes that are recorded and even more disclosed are revealed). The concealment of income and tax evasion became general.

NOT DEFICIENCY, BAD CRIMES

The second typical accusation of the Soviet system was the assertion that it constantly created deficiencies. As an example, 1991 is usually given the year when store shelves are completely empty. In fact, this is a typical manipulation by substitution of the thesis. Before 1985, there were deficiencies, but rarely. "Sausage" electric trains - the result of the creation of a "showcase of socialism" in Moscow. But a lot was done and, in particular, the problem of shortage of meat was successfully solved. For example, in Ivanovo, it was solved due to a sharp increase in the production of duck and duck dumplings. Gradually, by the year 1985 in Ivanovo, the situation began to be resolved in unconventional ways. When they began to introduce coupons for basic products, the workload of trains died away. Everyone knew that half a kilo of butter per month would give us, and 2 kg of meat, and half a kilogram of sausage ... There were fresh and smoked ducks. Pork appeared - better than nothing. Milk has become - heaps. Cooptorgi were opened, and it became possible to buy meat for 5 rubles, but on the market it was almost for the same price and was not translated.

As for the deficits constantly exaggerated by the liberals in the last years of Perestroika, they were artificial. They were specially organized in order to cash in on speculation. A. Kasatkin in the article “Deficit in the USSR” in N5 (454) of the newspaper “Duel” explains how the deficit was artificially made in the USSR. There are other testimonials. So, V.I. Potapov, the first secretary of the Irkutsk Communist Party Regional Committee in the years of Perestroika, testifies that for certain types of food the deficit was created artificially: speculation, theft ... U. Sarsenov from Kazakhstan writes about this - for some services, goods were created artificially deficient, which allowed all sorts of “bugs” »To withdraw from under the floor of the cost of the goods, air ticket, hotel room its margin, its percentage, not taxed, of course, no tax. The elite torpedoed pricing reforms in 1987, when, instead of comprehensively addressing prices and tariffs in the national economy, the Goskomtsen and Gosplan began pushing the idea of ​​revising wholesale prices first, and not to touch retail prices for some time. So, the deficit was before Perestroika, although it was also created artificially, and it did not in any way interfere with the normal functioning of the national economy, since it affected no more than 1% of the goods and services sold. The magnitude of this phenomenon increased dramatically only after the 1987 year.

So, there was no crisis in 1985 in the USSR. It was artificially created by reformers in 1987-1988, which was reflected in the negative increase in national income in 1989 and the subsequent collapse of the economy.

LONG DOES CRISES IN ECONOMICS GO ON?

Well, in general, why in today's Russia does not the crisis go away? Do economic crises last? A study of the development of different countries shows that within a single economic system, the economic decline usually lasts a maximum of 7 years. Crises lasting over 7 years in new stories did not have. As a rule, all economies straighten out very quickly, unless they are completely destroyed. Malaysia and South Korea took 2 of the year, Cuba - 4 of the year. Even the USA after the Great Depression took only 6 years to get out of the crisis. Economic recovery after the war also takes a maximum of 7 years. Even during the transition from one social system to another, as after the bloody Civil War, which claimed millions of lives and led to the complete ruin of the economy, the time for economic recovery did not exceed 7 years. After the Great Patriotic War, the restoration took 5 years with even greater destruction.

We have in today's Russia more than two decades of continuous crisis - the crisis is evidenced by the lack of development of the country (not growth associated with an increase in oil prices, but development), the complete destruction of the innovation infrastructure and, in particular, Soviet science ... All the mechanisms of scientific technical progress. By itself, the duration of the crisis in today's Russia and other former socialist countries speaks of its systemic nature; it proves that the crisis is of a non-economic nature, that it is man-made. The situation is similar to that after the fall of Ancient Rome, when during the long ten Dark Ages Europe could not reach the standard of living that existed in the Roman Empire.

So, there is no reason to believe that a crisis was brewing in the USSR in 1985, and if so, then the use of linear models for forecasting is quite reasonable.

Conscious collapse of the USSR economy

Thus, having come to power, Gorbachev got a stable working state. Yes, there were flaws and they had to be eliminated. But how to eliminate? It is necessary to conduct a differential diagnosis and make a diagnosis. Andropov tried to do this when he declared that we do not know the society in which we live. Gorbachev behaved quite differently. Instead of starting to study society, he began to shy away: let's speed up, let's, but how? Accelerated, but the system is inertial - it extinguished the excitement. Let's debug the economic mechanism, but again the system with its inertia suppressed the initiatives of amateurs. Then they took up the foundations on which the buildings of socialism stood ...

In 1987-1988, decisive mistakes were made (or rather, crimes against the people) —the visiting committees of the regional committees were eliminated. This meant that now foreign contractors would be able to give bribes to responsible Soviet workers in the form of trips to the West and marked the complete elimination of control over the elite.

A valve was opened separating the cash money supply from non-cash. For this, the so-called centers of the “Scientific and Technical Creativity of Youth” were first created, the first gateway for pumping cashless in cash. Under the guise of the development of a youth economy, the plundering of state enterprises was organized. Then came the era of co-operatives, which, like leeches, began to pump non-cash money out of the state. In the first quarter of 1990, banking institutions issued 6 billion rubles from the accounts of cooperatives. in cash, and only 450 thousand rubles were credited to their accounts. The total size of the shadow economy in recent years has reached Perestroika approximately 120-130 billion rubles, or about a fifth of the national income of the USSR. (59) Pumping from “cashless” to “cash” in the USSR was a clear theft, since cashless money practically did not real prices for enterprises (and the individuals who cashed them under the obligations of state-owned enterprises did not respond).

Finally, in 1987, the branch departments of the Central Committee of the CPSU, which exercised Party (and in fact, people's) control over the economy, were liquidated. The economic elite could now do everything they wanted, and it began to rock the country. Some reformers, in particular B. Saltykov, the former Minister of Science in the Yeltsin government, admit that the crisis in the economy of the USSR arose in 1989-1991, and not earlier.

Gorbachev’s statement in the book “The Fourth Power and Four Secretary Generals” in Victor Afanasyev’s book is very characteristic. “At first we made a bet on scientific and technical progress, but the mechanisms for its implementation did not work. Undertook the reform of the economic mechanism, but it was also blocked. Then the idea of ​​political reform appeared ... ”

As we see, the leader had no attempt to deal with the essence of the matter. There was confidence that the country urgently needed not the Constitution, or Sevruzhina with horseradish, but each new failure convinced the group of "reformers" not that they did not understand something and that they had to figure it out, but what was stopping them system to break. It did not happen with a swoop (and there many efforts are required) for scientific and technical progress - let's redo the whole economy! In science and technology, our ideas have diverged from reality - we will deal with the economy, this will definitely come to us, and science and technology will regulate the market. It didn’t work with economic reform - we’ll introduce democracy, the market will be immaculate with it! As they say, there will be no bread - we will eat sturgeon.

Here is just one example. According to Ligachev, a member of the Politburo A.N. At the end of the period of perestroika, Yakovlev sent a note to the General Secretary about the separation of science from the state, the termination of its budget financing, the liquidation of the State Committee on Science and Technology. So can act only an American agent.

WANTED PEOPLE TO REFUSE SOCIALISM?

One of the versions of supporters of the objectivity of the collapse of the USSR is the assumption that the people of the USSR are tired of socialism. As if the economy of the USSR was optimized as a wartime economy and during the 70 years (or 50) of the war - the people were tired. Like, one generation is a lot. And in Eastern Europe, the population of 30 is less tired from communism.

In fact, this assumption has no basis. At the very beginning of perestroika, no one even had any thought that socialism should be destroyed. All thoughts were focused on the improvement of socialism, which without exception was considered by all as the best social order. Everyone wanted to improve socialism.

They did not want to break socialism and most of the leaders of the CPSU. Member of the Political Bureau of the CPSU Central Committee E. Ligachev in a report at a solemn meeting in the Kremlin Palace of Congresses on the 69 anniversary of the Great October Socialist Revolution 6 in November 1986, said: “Of course, this is not about changing the essence of our social system. On the contrary, this process is aimed at strengthening and developing the fundamental socialist principles, at eliminating everything that is incompatible with them, at creating conditions for the effective use of the enormous potential of socialism ... All the tools of restructuring, all our experience, all our will, focus on reliably to ensure a new, steady rise in the economy and the welfare of the people. ”

Many believe that in any case they would have had to abandon the most hateful (in the then mass representation) traits of the Soviet economy. But, as it turned out, after two decades of reforms, these so-called "hateful" features are the price of other good features that far outweigh the "hateful ones."

To conclude this section, allow me to quote one author from the Czech Republic, already fed up with capitalism. “Today there is a lot of toilet paper in the shops ... But, on the other hand, resolve the question, why do I need toilet paper, if there is nothing to eat? You know, I'm 6 years out of work, six years old, my friend. Sorry for the sharpness of the tone, but I prefer the queues for toilet paper to the queues in front of the labor exchange. ”

So, socialism was destroyed not by objective economic factors, but by the hands of reformers. Consciously or not, this should be established by the competent authorities. The population, neither in the USSR nor in the socialist countries of Eastern Europe, with the possible exception of Poland, did not want to abandon the gains of socialism. The cause of the economic catastrophe is the penetration of the ideology of liberalism and reform. And to destroy the USSR helped international economic agencies.

Here is the opinion of the Nobel Prize winner Stiglitz. (68) “In the future, Russia's economic indicators were impressive, but its gross domestic product is still almost 30% lower than it was in 1990 year. With growth rates around 4% per year, it will take another ten years for the Russian economy to reach the level it was at the time of the collapse of communism. ”

WERED sober voices?

Liberals can declare that it’s good, they say, to wave their fists after a fight. Say, in those years, all economists, as one, recognized the goodness of the market for the USSR. But is it? Did all learned economists support the direction of the restructuring of the Soviet economy, elected by Gorbachev and the then young reformers? It turns out that not all.

For example, Academician Yaremenko categorically objected to the economic policy leading to the destruction of a significant part of the existing production potential, the “technological core” of the national economy, reasonably showing the futility of the raw materials orientation of the domestic economy, inexorably arising from the nature and content of 90-s production , science, social sphere. (69)

Yu.V. Yaremenko warned that the production and technological structure of the national economy is not able to adequately respond to the governing "macroeconomic" impacts, carried out in accordance with the traditional canons of market regulation. According to his views, the role and functions of the state in the economy should not only not weaken, but even strengthen.

PRODUCTION FALL

The efforts of the reformers were not in vain. Here is an interesting fact. In the 1922, the USSR was formed, which accounted for only 1% of global industry, and after 50 years - in 1972 - 20% of the total world industrial production. Currently, the share of Russia in the global industry does not exceed 1,5%. We should cite the authoritative opinion of I. Nikolaev, who convincingly showed that the GNP that the State Statistics Committee expects has little to do with reality. He analyzed investment and physical production indicators and gave an estimate of GNP in 42% of the Soviet for 2003 a year. Since then, the GNP has grown 1,3 times to a level of about 60% of the Soviet. The reformers, of course, count more, but still, even they recognize that the level of production that existed in the RSFSR has not been reached.

So, after all of this I make the final conclusion: the linearity of the prediction is applicable for the USSR 1985 of the year.

HOW TO HAVE PLAYED US

While I was concerned about the standard of living on average. Now you need to go to the details of income distribution among the population. Social inequality can be estimated by comparing the incomes of the poorest, lower 10% of the population with the incomes of the richest, the upper 10%. This ratio is called the decile coefficient. (91) The income of the bulk of the population is often largely determined not just by the level of GNP, but by the decile coefficient. In Sierra Leone, one of the poorest countries in the world, the bottom 10 percent of the population gets the entire 0,5% of national income consumed. While the top 10 percent get 43,6%. In rich Switzerland, the lower 10% already receive 2,9%, and the upper 10% - only 28,6%.

Now in official calculations, the decile coefficient in Russia is equal to 16 (for example, in 2004, the ratio of incomes to 10% of the richest and 10% of the poorest Russians reached 15,2-fold size (92)) and the quintile coefficient (the ratio of the lowest wage among 20% The most paid workers to the highest wages among 20% of the lowest paid workers (93) are equal to 89. By this indicator, which measures the social stratification of the population, Russia by 2002 was overtaken not only by all developed countries - the United States (15,9), the United Kingdom (XN UMX), Greece (13,8), France (10,0), Germany (9,1), Spain (9,0), Japan (9,0), but also a number of developing and postsocialist countries: Dominican Republic (4,5), Philippines (17,7), Thailand ( 16,5), Tunisia (13,4), Turkey (13,4), Poland (13,3), Hungary (9,3), Indonesia (8,9), Pakistan (7,8). (7,6)

But the official data are clearly underestimated. For example, in an article close to the Kremlin of Rimashevskaya, a decile coefficient equal to 14 is given. According to the CIA, US intelligence, which I somehow trust more than through mendacious (see (97)) data of the Russian statistics, in 1998, the decile coefficient in Russia was 22,7 (98) -22,8. (99) B 2000, according to the international agency that calculates the human development index, (100) the decile coefficient in Russia was equal to 20,3.

But that is not all. A group of experts from the World Bank, the Institute of Sociology of the Russian Academy of Sciences and the University of North Carolina (USA), which conducts long-term monitoring of the budget of 4's thousands of households (large research project “Russia longitudinal monitoring monitoring”), gives the decile coefficient for 1996 - 36,3! Domestic economists have a similar opinion. Thus, the Institute of Public Examination, as well as the most authoritative sociologists today argue that the decile coefficient in Russia reaches 40.

I tend to trust American and independent Russian scientists more than official “democratic” statistics. And it is quite reasonable. For example, such facts indicate an ever increasing increase in the difference in the incomes of Russians.

HOW TO ASSESS DIFFERENTIATION OF INCOME?

So, the incomes of Russians differ tenfold, but what decile and quintile coefficient should be chosen for calculations? The scatter obtained by different authors of indicators is too large. As in the case of the USSR, I preferred the figures provided by international agencies, in particular the CIA.

DIFFERENTIATION OF INCOME IN THE USSR

The next question, how to assess the differentiation of income in the USSR? The level of income differentiation under Stalin was great. Then the apartments were built very little and did not give apartments. Apartments were given mainly to specialists. According to the directives of the 20th Congress, one of the party’s goals was to “reduce the difference in the level of wages of low-paid and highly paid workers, and increase the wages of low- and middle-paid workers and employees”. At about the same time commercial stores were liquidated. In 1968, the decile coefficient went down to a record low of 2.7, it rose to 1990 by 3.3. (114) In fact, the Soviet state set a progressive tax on the sale of luxury goods at the expense of uneven prices for essential goods and luxury goods, and It means a tax on the rich.

According to official Goskomstat data, the decile coefficient in the USSR in 1990 was 4,4. Even three years after the start of reforms, in 1991, the decile coefficient was equal to 4,5, whereas in the USA it was 5,6. But by 1994 in Russia, he jumped to 15,1. According to RAS scientists, who took into account the hidden incomes of the rich, the actual decile coefficient in Russia in 1996 was 23. (115)

Therefore, for the 1985 of the year, I will take the decile coefficient equal to 3,2. (116) The 4 table shows the distribution of income during Soviet times. The income distribution was calculated by me based on the Lorenz curves. (117)

Now take the first 8 groups and compare with the latest 2. That is, 80% of the population and 20% of the richest. In today's Russia, 80% of the population accounts for 34,1% of income. The richest 20% get 65,9% consumed by GNP of Russia. In the USSR, the situation was different. 80% of the population received 63,9% of income, while the richest 20% received only 36,1%. In other words, if we establish the decile and quintile coefficients that were in the USSR, then the revenues of 80% of the population automatically (without any change in the level of production) will increase 1,8 times. So, in and of itself, a return to the principles of social policy that existed in the USSR makes it possible to improve the lives of the overwhelming majority of Russians in 1,8.

ADDITIONAL FACTORS

And here is another important parameter - the ratio of prices for essential products and luxury products. Bread has risen in price relative to the average car (VAZ-2105) about 5 times, and travel by metro to 8 times. The prices of absolutely essential goods soared up even more - relatively cheap domestic cigarettes and the most necessary medicines. In the USSR, on the contrary, low prices for the most necessary products eased the situation of people with low incomes, almost equalizing them on the main indicators of lifestyle with well-to-do people. (118) If we take into account that the average wage does not take into account the consumption basket, the poorest segments of the population - due to the relative rise in price of essential products, they lowered their standard of living even more. I would attribute at least 10% to this factor (coefficient 1,1).

Democrats brought the price for one square meter to 32 thousand rubles, and in Moscow - about two hundred thousand rubles, and after that they lie about Soviet power without a twinge of conscience! (119) Now almost half of Russians (43%) spend on rent and utilities ( electricity, gas, water, telephone) from a quarter to half of the total income of their families. 17% spend on it from half to three quarters of earnings. Less than a third of Russians give a communal bill up to 25% of their money.

So, because of the rise in housing prices, the rent on homeowners, invisible in the USSR, became visible and for its maintenance more than 30% of the money supply is required. Now the cost of utilities is often 30% of revenues. If we take into account the payment for apartments when they are purchased, then the share of money spent on the service of payment for accommodation will be 50%, but I will accept this share as 30%. In other words, from the general level of consumption in present-day Russia, about 30% falls on scrolling through the market for housing prices. If this is the case, then it should be recognized that the level of average wages in today's Russia should be reduced by 1,3 times.

These two factors determining the standard of living of the majority of the population (introducing property rents, mainly real estate, and rising oil prices into the money turnover), gave an increase for even the absolutely stagnant USSR 1,6 times, and taking into account the 1,1 coefficient even 1,75.

And finally, the last. Recall that about 30% of the current consumption growth in Russia is associated with rising oil prices. It is no secret that the main factor ensuring the growth of the Russian economy is not any effort of the people on innovations or technical development, but simply an increase in the price of oil and gas in international markets. During Soviet times, oil prices fell. Now is growing rapidly. There is no reason to believe that if the USSR collapsed, the price of oil would not rise. If the USSR had remained intact, then oil prices would have increased anyway. This is the law of a capitalist economy - a rise in prices for a product that is lacking. If the increase in oil prices were the same, they would give an additional increase in GDP by 30%. That is why I am introducing an amendment to this factor in the average salary. Salary in the USSR should be increased 1,3 times.

PUBLIC CONSUMPTION FUNDS

But that's not all. In my calculations, I did not take into account social consumption funds. They constituted a significant part of the national income consumed. For example, in 1988, only payments from public consumption funds accounted for almost 36% of the population’s cash income. Under socialism, the people got what they really needed, education, security, health, apartments ... and now he buys what he is being driven into advertising.

The destruction of city and district Soviets, the practical elimination of self-government, the dictatorship and the autocracy of the “executive branch” had the most dramatic effect on the appearance of urban areas, especially on the outskirts, and the way of life in them. On the site of working and sleeping areas, urban ghettos are formed, and parks and recreation areas are diverted to “elite development” zones, which are trying to become zones of prosperous capitalism among the ruined urban environment.

HOW WE WORK BEFORE AND HOW NOW?

Well, what about the intensity of the work? One graduate student went to Switzerland. He came for the holidays and said: "I knew that I would have to work hard, but in order to have so much ...". What am I for? To the fact that the late Brezhnev years were not a war at all, but a complete relaxation. All worked much less than many spinning in today's Russia. This is evidenced by at least a sharp reduction in reading literature. “Once,” as another graduate student in America told me. “There is no time to read, it’s necessary to plow.”

There was a lot of information about how they worked in the USSR and in the West. I remember one story. Our Hero of Sotstrud from Ivanov, the foremost textile industry, V. Golubev, gave 5 a multiple production rate and I myself saw how she had to fly between the machines. She went to Belgium. She was taken to a weaving mill, and she saw that there, on the same Belgian machines, she worked like a 80% shift.

S.G. Kara Murza writes: “I once argued with a friend, the captain of a Spanish fishing trawler. He says: “You violated Lenin’s law on labor productivity. When we passed by the Soviet ship, our fishermen looked with hatred: the Russians, free from the watch, were sunbathing, playing chess on the deck. And we on the same vessel had half the staff, and worked on 16 hours per day. From each flight, I drove one or two under protection — I went crazy. ” I ask: “So what's so good about it? After all, in the port you had the same number of unemployed who have killed themselves with drugs. Why such a performance? “But Lenin said so,” and there were no more fair arguments. And unfair (like benefits for the owners), he himself did not want to use. He thought about this for a year, and then admitted that the Soviet fishermen had better, and in this case socialism does not need a performance criterion. ”Now Russia has surpassed Spain in this regard.

Further. Visiting Ivanovo, I often ask my friends about how they spin. It turns out that now most of them work in two or even three jobs. There is almost no time for rest. Children are abandoned. And the intensification of labor is intensifying. For example, a surcharge has recently been introduced for district doctors, but President Putin forgot to extend the effect of the allowance to leave and now district doctors have stopped taking holidays. But in the years of Soviet power, doctors and teachers had the longest vacation among workers. What do I want to say? The fact that the so-called average salary in today's Russia includes a sharp intensification of labor, which means that this factor should also be taken into account when assessing the standard of living. It turns out an interesting phenomenon - it seems that labor productivity in the USSR was less than in the West, they worked less, but you should, and Tanks there was enough money and lived 1,4-1,7 times better than now.

FORECAST GROWTH FOR A DEATH COUNTRY

After all these calculations, I was faced with a new question: what is the basic growth rate to take to forecast salary growth in the USSR after 1985? Until 1987, the country grew at an average of 3,5%. This is evidenced by the data of independent calculations by economists of reformers, and more precisely the teams of Yavlinsky, who are hard to blame for being addicted to socialism. This is also indicated by the data from the growth check of natural indicators, which demonstrates that the growth in the USSR in recent years before the beginning of the 1989 crisis was about 3% per year. And most importantly, over the years with a rate of about 3% electricity consumption has grown, and this is an integral indicator. The increase in electricity consumption from 1980 to 1988 year (8 years) was 32%, if there was an increase in 3%, then the increase would be 34%. Considering that gas consumption grew at even higher rates, the forecast that these stable growth rates within 3-3,5% per year would continue seemed very high.

5 table. Natural indicators of production and living standards in the USSR ("National Economy of the USSR in 1990, the Statistical Yearbook. M. 1991. Finance and Statistics") (127)

Natural indicators Years 1980 1985 1988

Sending passengers by all modes of transport (million people) 69124 75917 82445

Including aviation 104 113 125

Machines for making org. fertilizer (thousand pieces) 47,9 56,3 70,7

Machining centers (thousand pcs.) 0,7 2,5 3,7

Rotary and mouth.-conv. lines (pieces) - 860 1558

Electricity (billion kWh) 94 1544 1705

Including at nuclear power stations 72,9 167 216

Trolley buses (pieces) 2015 2467 2545

Cargo. cars (thous. pcs.) 787 823 862

Min fertilizers (million tons) 24,8 33,2 37,1

Paintwork materials (million tons) 2883 3315 3650

Cement (kt) 5792 79089 84030

Beef and veal (thousand tons) 4392 4957 5848

Poultry Meat (kt) 1224 1744 2137

Milk (recalculated in million tons) 25,5 29,8 33,5

Canned food (million standard cans) 15270 17993 21109

Meat per capita (kg. In brackets in auxiliary household) 34,4 (4,7) 39 (5,5) 44,9 (5,6)

Average month salary in state farms (rub.) 149,7 184,4 212,4

The length of the trolleybus routes (km) 7009,8 8147,1 8803,2

Number of 20167 27185 33281 telephones

Growth GNP 100 120 134

In addition, gas consumption increased, the public transportation system, consumer services improved. These are all the factors that created the increase in energy supply.

Therefore, I had the right to assume that the RSFSR would develop steadily and would give 3-3,5% growth per year, as it was on average in previous years. But I deliberately did not take 3% growth, which gave the RSFSR during 1978-1987 years, a decade of stable development - not to tease geese - I took the forecast in 2,5% growth, which, as it turned out, was minimal, by statistical modeling of growth trends .

After reviewing all these issues, taking figures from internationally available sources on the Internet, showing the growth rate of GNP in Russia, I made calculations and it turned out that in 2005, Russia’s GNP was 237% of the 1965 year, while in the 1991, the RSFSR had The corresponding figure in 264,7%. If we take the peak of the achievements of the RSFSR in the Soviet time 1989 year, then that year the GNP amounted to 288,5% from the level of 1965 year. So, international statistics show that today's Russia has not yet reached the highest level that Soviet Russia had (82% of the 1989 level of the year). This fact is reflected in such an indicator of international statistics as the Human Development Index (100), which in Russia has not recovered within the framework of the Soviet era level.

1990 g. - 0.817

1995 g. - 0.770

2003 g. - 0.795

What happened? It turned out that if there were no Perestroika and subsequent reforms, the GNP in Russia would be at the level of 428,3% of the level of 1965 of the year. At the end of the year, 2005, this figure was only 237%. In other words, even if we take deliberately underestimated predicted results of GDP growth, Soviet Russia would have, without any straining, a level of economy in 1,8, and therefore a standard of living, than now. Remember this figure. If we take the increase in 3,5%, then by the year 2005 the RSFSR would have a GNP in 500,3% of the level 1965 of the year. In other words, we would live 2,1 twice as good as it is now. Finally, take the most pessimistic forecast - the annual increase in 1,5%. Then you would live in 1,54 times better than now.

I note that the consequences of the degradation of science would gradually manifest themselves without sharp jumps in the decline in GDP growth from 3,5% to 1% by the end of the period. What on average would give the same 2%, or even higher. Tendencies to deterioration would not be detected, since the effect of degradation of science usually manifests itself after 10 or more years. Given the very high level of higher education in the USSR, the system would have been viable for at least 15 years, even if everything was left as it was.

If we take into account the opinion of the “democrats” that there were good reasons to assume that trends in the USSR economy changed significantly during the 75-85 of the year, then they are reflected in the “pessimistic scenario” with 0% growth. There is no reason to believe that the Soviet economy would show a much lower growth rate, that is, it would fall in 2 times, without starting a restructuring. In the end, the Great Depression was not least due to government action. It could either be avoided or the consequences substantially reduced. And the consequences of this depression were significantly lower than the effects of Perestroika. In any economy after a crisis, there are usually higher growth rates. Even after the Civil War in Russia, the economy was restored to 10 in 1928 years to the year. Moreover, industrialization, the GOERLO plan, the increase in the financing of science have already begun. In the current Russian economy there is no high growth rate of the economy itself. And there is no growth associated with high oil prices. That is, the economy continues to degrade. No amount of depreciation required, no investment ...

SO MUCH AS BETTER WE WOULD LIVE?

Now I will try to calculate what would have happened if Gorbachev had not come. In my calculations, I will define an optimistic and pessimistic scenario and then compare how we would live in the first and second cases.

To begin with, the average salary is now 157 rubles, and the pension is 62 rubles. In the USSR, 1985, the average salary was 200 rubles, and the pension was 132 rubles. If we accept that pensioners make up 10% of the adult population, then the average per capita income in Russia will be 148,3 rubles, and in the USSR - 1985 - 192,2 rubles. If we take into account the decile and quintile coefficients, then 80% of the population in Russia - 2012 have an average income of 50,6 rubles, and in the USSR - 1985 - 123,5 rubles. If the Soviet salary was compensated for the increase in oil prices (1,3 ratio), then it would be 2012 rubles in the USSR - 179,8. If we take into account that 30% of the average salary of Russians now goes to the maintenance of housing issues, then the non-apartment part, corresponding to the total in the USSR, will be 38,98 rubles.

So far we have not taken into account the increase in GNP in the USSR. But even in this case, 80% of the population in the USSR-2012 would live better than in Russia - 2012 in 4,2 times. If we take the linear trend of growth of the average salary in the USSR - 1985 and accept that this trend will not change, then the average income in the USSR-2012 would be 256,2 rubles, which is 5 times higher than the corrected income in Russia-2012.

In other words, it turns out that if the USSR would not be broken now, then 80% of the Russian population would live 5 times better than they are now. Well, what would have happened if the most pessimistic forecast had come true (annual increase in 0%). Then you would live better 4 times. Agree - not bad either. Imagine, the salary in 4 would be higher than the current one, and this at current prices and without taking into account additional factors.

. “Changes in the level and quality of life of the population have been transformed into acute social and economic problems that had equally acute demographic consequences. Among them:

• catastrophic decline in income and material security of the main part of the population;

• a high proportion of the poor with an extremely poor definition of poverty level;

• unprecedented polarization of living conditions;

• significant unemployment;

• degradation of social security and the actual destruction of the social sphere, including housing and communal services.

“Shock therapy” led to a sharp drop in the monetary incomes of the population, and hopes for their recovery in the coming years are low.

It can be said that now there are two Russia who live in different dimensions, poorly understand each other, have different orientations and preferences, their own demand and the market for supply of goods and services

CONCLUSION

So, the majority of Russians should realize that, without hindering the destruction of the USSR by their passivity, they have done a lot of stupidity. Under the USSR, they would live many, many, many better than they do now. And this is not a propaganda slogan. Quite a few unbiased Western scholars hold the same opinion. So, the authors of the Journal of Cold War Studies, which is published in Harvard (articles on economics, but not on politics, there are reasonable), do not hesitate to admit that, according to their calculations, it turns out that in some areas of the USSR it has reached significant success (but do not select indicators in such a way as to create the impression that the USSR was a paradise on earth).

If someone says that there is no alternative history, then I will answer what happens. For the Democrats. After all, it was they who dragged out Mendeleev’s forecast about what the population of Russia should have been in the 20 century. This prediction was also made by simple linear extrapolation. However, the real population of Russia in the 20 century turned out to be much less numerical. The difference was declared by the Democrats as victims of the Bolshevik regime. This is where the numbers in 60 of millions of victims originate. Why they can, but I can not?
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  1. Igor39
    Igor39 8 October 2013 07: 50 New
    +4
    If grandmother had ..., then she would be a grandfather.
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 8 October 2013 07: 55 New
      +1
      The article is a long article from a series of fantastic prose. It is a pity to spend time on how it would be. There are enough problems in what actually exists.
      1. eplewke
        eplewke 8 October 2013 09: 51 New
        +4
        They destroyed the Soviet empire, we will build or better say we will revive the Russian Empire. There are enough problems of course, but we are able to build ... Ideology is not enough ... Something needs to be lifted by our Russian Vanka, otherwise he will lay it back on the side of the stove until it is shaken ...
        1. Andrey Yuryevich
          Andrey Yuryevich 8 October 2013 17: 08 New
          +3
          Roly on the stove, because there is nowhere to work, the enterprises were destroyed, but there were no new ones, two professions remained in the country: taxi drivers and traders ... I recently heard in Chelyabinsk a new metallurgical workshop was opened, as many as three hundred (300) jobs ... cool!
          1. Skiff_spb
            Skiff_spb 9 October 2013 08: 56 New
            +2
            Yeah. That's why we are looking for people for half a year. Come alone ... ahem, not very suitable people.
      2. smersh70
        smersh70 8 October 2013 10: 59 New
        +4
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Article long from a series of fantastic prose



        the article is good, but the conclusions are not good ..... wassat
        1. Geisenberg
          Geisenberg 8 October 2013 13: 17 New
          -18
          Quote: smersh70
          the article is good, but the conclusions are not good ..... wassat


          Necrophilia is not an article. We should already dig this corpse and draw conclusions.
          1. Andrey Yuryevich
            Andrey Yuryevich 8 October 2013 17: 10 New
            +7
            necrophilia is the current economy in the country ...
          2. NordUral
            NordUral 19 July 2017 12: 32 New
            +1
            Well, well ... Russia will become a corpse, and even dismembered, if we don't recall. And the article is correct, even very kind to reforms and reformers.
      3. IRBIS
        IRBIS 8 October 2013 11: 22 New
        0
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        It’s a pity to spend time on how it would be.

        Aw, sanya! Avon sci-fi fans "attached" you Avon! Gentlemen, I simply must stand up for the namesake!
        History does not tolerate the subjunctive mood and one should not spend time thinking about “as if” and “so that it would be”. Sausage, meat, milk ... - bullshit! The eternal search for answers to the questions "Who is to blame?" and "What to do?" I will answer - you need to work, and not be distracted by dusting your head with ash and vulgar moaning about the possible, I emphasize! - possible greatness.
        1. Yarosvet
          Yarosvet 8 October 2013 13: 19 New
          16
          Quote: IRBIS
          do not spend time thinking about “as if” and “so that it would be”
          In thought or in comparison? At the moment, the Union is a guide, and inaccessible.
          The second aspect of this article is the counterargument of the sweeping discredit of the USSR, carried out through unproven statements about its supposedly negative sides (by the way - why pour slop on a disappeared country?)

          need to work
          It turns out?
          1. IRBIS
            IRBIS 8 October 2013 14: 10 New
            +5
            Quote: Yarosvet
            In thought or in comparison?

            In thought. They are counterproductive because they are absurd in nature. But dreaming is not bad ...
            Quote: Yarosvet
            At the moment, the Union is a guide, and inaccessible.

            Landmark? Is an? For whom? Or for what? I lived at that time and I am proud of it, but there were also flaws above the roof. And there were enough excesses in all aspects of life. You should not forget this either.
            Quote: Yarosvet
            It turns out?

            It turns out! After leaving the Armed Forces, he started from the very beginning of his civil career, from the bottom. Now - a separate office. And I have even more than a military pensioner since the USSR, believe me.
            1. Yarosvet
              Yarosvet 8 October 2013 14: 40 New
              +8
              Quote: IRBIS
              In thought. They are counterproductive because they are essentially absurd
              That is, you allow yourself to analyze, draw conclusions and evaluate actions, events and articles, but for others it’s counterproductive and absurd, for others - “don’t think - believe, and you will be happy” - does it happen? laughing

              Landmark? Is an? For whom? Or for what?
              For the 2 / 3 population of the Russian Federation living, if we compare the purchasing power of the USSR ruble and the Russian ruble, it is worse than in the Union by 4.5-5 times.
              For 2/3 of the population of the Russian Federation who are in accordance with the norms of the International Labor Organization below the poverty line.
              For "working beggars."

              but the flaws there were also higher than the roof. And there were enough excesses in all aspects of life
              And who forgets this?
              On the contrary, it is you who forget that before drawing conclusions about the social system based on the existing excesses and shortcomings, you need to understand the causes of these excesses and shortcomings.

              It turns out! After leaving the Armed Forces, he started from the very beginning of his civil career, from the bottom. Now - a separate office. And I have even more than a military pensioner since the USSR, believe me.
              I believe - you succeeded, I am happy for you. And what will we do with the rest - with 2/3 of which somehow it doesn’t work out?
              1. IRBIS
                IRBIS 8 October 2013 16: 01 New
                -2
                Quote: Yarosvet
                That is, you allow yourself to analyze, draw conclusions and evaluate actions, events and articles, but for others it’s counterproductive and absurd,

                To analyze past experience and draw conclusions is one thing, to conduct idle reasoning from the category "if it would happen that way" is quite another.
                Quote: Yarosvet
                For the 2 / 3 population of the Russian Federation living, if we compare the purchasing power of the USSR ruble and the Russian ruble, it is worse than in the Union by 4.5-5 times.

                Let us then compare with 1913 year, the same landmark in the Russian Empire.
                Quote: Yarosvet
                it is necessary to understand the causes of these excesses and shortcomings.

                Reasons - the very system of obtaining and distribution of benefits. Under socialism, it is utopian and far from the laws of economics.
                1. Yarosvet
                  Yarosvet 8 October 2013 16: 24 New
                  +2
                  Quote: IRBIS
                  To analyze past experience and draw conclusions - this is one thing, to conduct idle reasoning from the category of "now if it would have happened" - is completely different
                  Leisurely reasoning? Or maybe the author tried to understand and convey to others - what could be, and did it quite reasonably (though not indisputably) and with a very obvious purpose.

                  Let's compare then with 1913, the same landmark in the Russian Empire
                  What to compare - the purchasing power of the ruble, or the purchasing power And the availability of this ruble for the uneducated peasantry, which makes up 80% of the population and has an average life expectancy of 30 years?

                  Reasons - the very system of obtaining and distribution of benefits. Under socialism, it is utopian and far from the laws of economics.
                  Verbally.

                  What is utopianism, what laws are ignored?
                  1. IRBIS
                    IRBIS 8 October 2013 17: 17 New
                    0
                    Quote: Yarosvet
                    Verbally.

                    What is utopianism, what laws are ignored?

                    The collapse of the socialist system - is it unfounded? A lecture on economics will not fit on the site. We weren’t ruined, we ate ourselves, I don’t even put quotes, ate in the full sense of the word. External factors only accelerated events and exacerbated the consequences. To put it simply: a system in which income and benefits are averaged, which are evenly distributed evenly, “freezes”, stops developing. There are no incentives for development. After all, everyone does the plan, money and benefits for its implementation are divided into all. Only here the measure of labor is different for everyone. Well, people do not want to work, do not want to. Most of the achievements in practice turned out to be "exaggerated", clearly exaggerated.
                    You can argue about this for a long time, but there is a fact - the people who lived under socialism and for whom you worry so much, at the first opportunity, almost with shouts of joy threw themselves into the arms of the damned bourgeois.
                    And the year 1917 was repeated, just the opposite.
                    And, attention, the question is: WHO is to blame for this? Americans or those who snickering did not defend a socialist society with its values?
                    1. Yarosvet
                      Yarosvet 8 October 2013 17: 49 New
                      +3
                      Quote: IRBIS
                      The collapse of the socialist system - is it unfounded?
                      This is a fait accompli, but again you forget about the need to consider the reasons.

                      we ate ourselves ... External factors only accelerated events and exacerbated the consequences
                      True, but ask yourself, what must one be in order to allow this? The owner of a personal plot or business will drive himself to zero, if there are not any significant external factors contributing to this?
                      And if there are shoals where they cannot be in principle, if competent trained specialists of these shoals do not see point-blank and do not correct them - is it a random self-eating, or something else, and something purposeful?

                      a system in which incomes and benefits are averaged, which are also distributed evenly and “freezes”, ceases to develop
                      Is the difference between the minimum and maximum bid 12 times - is it equalization?

                      After all, everyone does the plan, money and benefits for its implementation are divided into all
                      But in accordance with the calculated labor costs in a particular profession.

                      Most of the achievements in practice turned out to be "exaggerated", clearly exaggerated
                      What purpose is the result. And who was our goal-setting?

                      You can argue about this for a long time, but there is a fact - the people who lived under socialism and for whom you worry so much, at the first opportunity, almost with shouts of joy threw themselves into the arms of the damned bourgeois
                      It’s true: as I wrote on this thread, the orange scenario was repeated that could not take place if at least 50% of the population doesn’t support it — and who created an advertisement for the Western way of life showing only its positive side, who built the production system of consumer goods contrary with the real needs of the population?
                      These guys were pros - they made no stupid mistakes.

                      As a result, we got -
                      1917th, just the opposite
                      - although the proposed changes should have allowed us to take the best from the West, while preserving the best that we had.
                      1. IRBIS
                        IRBIS 8 October 2013 18: 23 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Yarosvet
                        It’s true: as I wrote on this thread, the orange scenario was repeated that could not take place if at least 50% of the population doesn’t support it — and who created an advertisement for the Western way of life showing only its positive side, who built the production system of consumer goods contrary with the real needs of the population?

                        What is the "orange" revolution, what are you talking about?
                        The people, at one time, hated Andropov for trying to make him work. Check the lines in stores, cinemas, yes, it is possible bust. Only then everyone understood the distribution system too "well" and nobody really bothered. The main thing is the numeral "8" in the report card.
                        Let us recall how enthusiastically conveyed to each other the statements of Gorbachev, and then Yeltsin. I quarreled with my father when I called EBN in those years a drunk, I always had a fight (we are still surprised at the civil war). The vast majority of people were delighted with them. Who prevented the people from defending the gains of socialism? Nobody interfered, just everyone was up to the lantern. Awareness of the lost did not come immediately either, but only when it turned out that there were no free cakes.
                        The reasons for the collapse of socialism are its failure. Beautiful, but as it turned out, a fairy tale. The changes were forty years late; Beria had a pretty decent reform program. Only this would be another socialism.
                      2. Yarosvet
                        Yarosvet 8 October 2013 18: 50 New
                        +1
                        Quote: IRBIS
                        What is the "orange" revolution, what are you talking about?
                        And in your opinion, the "orange revolution" is Bolotnaya Square? laughing

                        The people, at one time, hated Andropov for trying to make him work
                        Did he try? In general, it’s somewhat strange for his level to try to do this by methods that predictably increase irritation by the system — no less strange is the series of deaths of politicians potentially capable of leading the Union that happened before he came to power.

                        Let's recall how enthusiastically conveyed to each other the statements of Gorbachev
                        Which Andropov pushed into power (by the way I don’t remember the delight - just banter).

                        The vast majority of people were delighted with them.
                        From EBNya really was - at first.

                        Who prevented the people from defending the gains of socialism?
                        There was no question of protecting the gains of socialism, since in the RSFSR, which replaced the USSR, no one was going to refuse them - all the difference that was discussed was the resolution of private property (not privatization by a narrow group), the resolution of entrepreneurship, and in the self-determination of the republics.
                        All the currently available “achievements” of the capsystem were not expected - they appeared after the 93rd year and directly contradict even the current Constitution.

                        The reasons for the collapse of socialism are its failure.
                        Again 25 laughing

                        What is its inconsistency - how, with the exception of the emergency situation on the means of production and relation to social obligations, does the capsystem differ from the social system?
          2. NordUral
            NordUral 19 July 2017 12: 35 New
            0
            No need to judge by their own, private achievements or failures. We need to cover the problems of the country and the people wider. Then the truth of the article will come out.
      4. michajlo
        michajlo 8 October 2013 13: 33 New
        +2
        IRBIS (1) Today, 11: 22 ↑
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        It’s a pity to spend time on how it would be.

        Aw, sanya! Avon sci-fi fans "attached" you Avon! Gentlemen, I simply must stand up for the namesake!
        History does not tolerate the subjunctive mood and one should not spend time thinking about “as if” and “so that it would be”. Sausage, meat, milk ... - bullshit! Eternal finding answers to the questions "Who is to blame?" and "What to do?" I will answer - you need to workand not be distracted by sprinkling ash on your head and vulgar moans about the possible, I emphasize! - possible greatness.


        Good afternoon, Alexander!
        Yes, you are right in the fact that you have to work and not grind with your tongue. good

        But maybe before how to build something new or again obediently go "for a blind guide", is it worth it to stop and think about it all the same, why did “our invincible Union” collapse so easily ?, so that the true instigators and performers of the “collapse of the Union-1” are still hiding before us FULLY?

        If you think that over the past 30 from the beginning of “perestroika ...” you all know, understand and learn how to get around the traps, smile then I will no longer call you to comprehend and double-check all these "Beautiful and impersonal official versions of the collapse of the USSR", by the way prepared well ahead of time that
        - “they say the Union was killed by a low oil price”, what
        - “Gorbachev tried as best he could in acceleration and perestroika, but he did not have enough for another 4 months and 24 billion dollars” what
        - and other tales "for an adult kindergarten" ... fool
        1. IRBIS
          IRBIS 8 October 2013 14: 02 New
          +1
          Quote: michajlo
          If you think that over the past 30 from the beginning of "perestroika ..." you all know, understand

          Hello! Socialism, as it was with us, is utopia. The public ownership of the means of production and the "leveling" in everything is utopia. Marx decomposes capitalism very well into its component parts and draws conclusions about its impending collapse. He saw the nascent capitalism and could not have foreseen its ability to adapt. And he did not have examples of socialism. Lenin, in his recent works, already traces the idea that the construction of socialism in the proposed version is problematic.
          The model of "Swedish socialism" turned out to be more viable. The Chinese model, although it adapts to modern conditions, is still, as a system, very vulnerable and not stable.
          And the theses you have quoted are for those who do not go deep into philosophical wilds. With this I completely agree.
        2. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 8 October 2013 19: 31 New
          +5
          Quote: michajlo
          Yes, you are right in the fact that you need to work and not to grind your tongue

          Well, you know better from abroad good
          Quote: michajlo
          But maybe before building something new or again obediently going “for a blind guide”,

          A blind guide is Putin, it’s understandable. But the author, as I understand it, is smarter than Putin, but the author will not become president of Russia, just as you are fortunate for Russia.
          Quote: michajlo

          If you think that over the past 30 from the beginning of "perestroika ..."

          I don’t think anything, but I just do not care when people from abroad tell me who to vote for, how to live, how to raise a child and what to think about the authorities in the country. You left Russia, well, GOOD BY hi
          1. Ruslan67
            Ruslan67 9 October 2013 05: 28 New
            +3
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            You left Russia, well, GOOD BAY

            Sasha what Citizen of Ukraine living in Slovakia wassat This is not even a characteristic but a diagnosis. fool laughing
            1. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 9 October 2013 05: 37 New
              +2
              Quote: Ruslan67
              This is not even a characteristic but a diagnosis.

              hi Ruslan! Yes, let him write what he wants. I read his comments, but such an idea attends that these are quotes from European politicians. Putin must am He also wrote that in the Far East in the flood people blame Medvedev wassat That’s what kind of press a person reads, or just to say request
              1. Ruslan67
                Ruslan67 9 October 2013 05: 43 New
                +2
                [quote = Alexander Romanov] He also wrote that on the Far East in the flood people blame Medvedev As in the perestroika rhyme ...- and some kind of chicks from the rail starts the train wassat
                1. Ruslan67
                  Ruslan67 9 October 2013 06: 19 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Ruslan67
                  and some kind of chicks from the rail lets the trains go

                  And what would I do without you my dear what .................................................. .............. q !!!!! wassat
              2. Ruslan67
                Ruslan67 9 October 2013 05: 45 New
                +1
                Quote: Alexander Romanov
                , or just to say

                But the rating worries worse than hemorrhoids tongue
              3. Ruslan67
                Ruslan67 9 October 2013 05: 52 New
                +1
                Quote: Alexander Romanov
                Yes, let him write what he wants.

                Do you know enough! Why was rarely on the site you know request A week later, you come in — new generals like shit after a bath breed and multiply by budding. negative The phrase-humpback hang a bunch of pluses collects What changed the tactics of the gnomotrolls?
      5. Andrey Yuryevich
        Andrey Yuryevich 8 October 2013 17: 12 New
        +5
        work again ... YES WHERE? Ekary Babai! People for pennies like Gaster go to the region to work!
      6. bilgesez
        bilgesez 8 October 2013 18: 23 New
        +4
        And for whom to work for Abram Moiseevich. But he didn’t want to work for me, I’d better get the machine and go return what they took from me and my people. Not for that, my ancestors plowed to bloody bunnies in the eyes, so that all sorts of Abramovichs would buy houses in Manhattan.
      7. _Siberian_
        _Siberian_ 8 October 2013 22: 13 New
        +3
        Nobody argues to work, but the lessons of the past must be remembered, especially since it is not about greatness, but about "rulers from the people" and the results of THEIR "work".
        Hence the conclusion: look who you choose (so for the future ...)
    2. Sirs
      Sirs 8 October 2013 11: 52 New
      +7
      You need to know what would happen, so that in the future there is not what we have.
    3. master_rem
      master_rem 8 October 2013 14: 25 New
      11
      And I would like to live in the USSR, with its planned economy, supposedly with a homespun life. I’d just like to not see my tormented parents trying to feed my sister and I in the 90s and educate. When an aircraft engine engineer quits Kuznetsov and goes to cover the roofs, dig the ground - whatever .. And in as a result, he becomes the driver first of the truck at the owner, then personal carts. And having made an attempt to return to his native factory last year, he was faced with clanism (deputy in training and the head of the workshop — father and son), utter pokuism and unprofessionalism of completely strangers in the production of people with left education — and had to leave again ..
    4. Tartary
      Tartary 8 October 2013 16: 36 New
      +7
      Quote: Igor39
      If grandmother had ..., then she would be a grandfather.

      And what, because of this, the article should be neglected ??
      Less so write better!
      Quote: Alexander Romanov
      The long article in a series of fantastic prose.

      Well, count through the integrals, if of course the tama allows.

      A person lucidly explains to you that with the help of linear linear equations, based on similar methods used by our capitalist "friends", he concluded TOTAL, which shows a fantastic reality in which we did not have to live happily ...
      Instead of what could be statistically, the whole huge country last eaten without salt and just kept up to lick the bruises in the soul and bodies from the activities of a handful of successful liberal economists and their associates of bandits with unfortunate businessmen ...

      Yes, God is with us, but our children and especially grandchildren can’t even imagine what a truly happy childhood is like ... Without a general kitsch, and division into castes from fancy. It seems that children, starting from the 90s of birth, are immediately born with a stigma on the body that defines the kasu - either tramp-slaves, or bandits, or celestials with dollar bills ...
      About grandfathers who could not adapt to new realities and died out prematurely or do you know everything ??

      Minusory, damn fucking ...

      What, long texts to read and to think in parallel does not take out a truncated brain?
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 8 October 2013 16: 38 New
        -3
        Quote: Tartary

        What, long texts to read and to think in parallel does not take out a truncated brain?

        Your pancake has a truncated brain. I don’t read any desire.
        1. michajlo
          michajlo 8 October 2013 16: 54 New
          +3
          Alexander Romanov (1) RU Today, 16:38 _131008 / WTO New
          Quote: Tartary
          What, long texts to read and to think in parallel does not take out a truncated brain?
          You yourself have a pancake with a truncated brain. I don’t read any desire. Get away! [/color]

          Hello non-respected Alexander!

          Rude's dear dear? sad The man turns to you to contact you, but you immediately poke, yes, "not the first time."

          And because of something you’re so angry, What again did they eat a bottle’s without a snack?

          Sincerely, Mikhailo.
          1. Ruslan67
            Ruslan67 8 October 2013 18: 28 New
            +1
            Quote: michajlo
            The man turns to you, and you immediately poke

            Remember the joke about the muskrat? wassat
            Quote: michajlo
            And because of something you’re so angry,

            We got pink snot in the genre of fantastic nonsense about the fact that they themselves miscalculated
          2. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 8 October 2013 19: 18 New
            +1
            Quote: michajlo

            Hello non-respected Alexander!

            Hello not respected Michael!
            Quote: michajlo
            Rude's dear dear?

            I answer rudeness
            Quote: michajlo
            The man turns to you

            A person knows me as flaky, but you darling should not meddle in other people's conversations. You were not invited!
            Quote: michajlo
            And because of something you are so angry that they ate a bottle again without a snack?

            Well, which of us is hamloe?
            1. michajlo
              michajlo 8 October 2013 19: 33 New
              +2
              Alexander Romanov (1) RU Today, 19:18 _131008 / WTO

              Hello, Alexander!

              I beg you to forgive me for being slow-witted. crying
              It dawns on me for a long time that someone with such impunity can all shamelessly “poke and treat like in a cupboard (when looking for a fallen glass under the table)”.

              I will have to learn from you such creative treatment, I’m sure that if the admins are kind to you, then we can also mortals, try how it is with this like him: “Quod licet Jovi, non licet bovi” / “What is allowed Jupiter is not allowed to bull. ”

              Forgive me slow-witted, generously. I will no longer take up your precious time.

              I wish you all the best! hi Mikhailo.
              1. Alexander Romanov
                Alexander Romanov 9 October 2013 05: 21 New
                -1
                Quote: michajlo
                It dawns on me for a long time that someone with such impunity can all shamelessly “poke and treat like in a buffet

                I noticed this, you are not Estonian by nationality for an hour? Or is it a European tradition of greeting every komenta. And then also wonder what he pokes at me what No damn it, I'll start to poke reading before the coming koment, where ...
                Quote: michajlo
                Hello non-respected Alexander!

                And for the future, to someone, but culture wouldn’t hurt to learn.
                1. Ruslan67
                  Ruslan67 9 October 2013 05: 24 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Alexander Romanov
                  No damn, I'll start poking

                  Offended desman laughing Do you remember the hedgehog? - wassat
        2. Tartary
          Tartary 8 October 2013 18: 39 New
          +4
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Your pancake has a truncated brain. I don’t read any desire.

          I don’t remember your shadow on any hectare where you had to cut yourself ...

          The mice rustled in the bushes, I remember, but your shadow was definitely not ...

          Do not read, do not write all sorts of nonsense. And then with all sorts of giggles and dummies, I accumulated an epaulet on myself. Forgot how to troll the forum with your bandeika two years ago? Now who imagines himself ?!

          Power is such an insidious thing, Sasha ...
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 8 October 2013 19: 23 New
            0
            Quote: Tartary
            . And then with all sorts of giggles and dummies, I accumulated an epaulet on myself.

            Yes, I remember, you still dreamed of becoming a marshal by his last nickname, here you’ll become faster +.
            Quote: Tartary
            . Forgot how to troll the forum with your bandeika two years ago? Now who imagines himself ?!

            What I already remember, especially the story of the Odessa woman and your mats left and right. I can still control who I was and sometimes I do it in my mood. Nothing has changed, you see a warning hanging from me bully
            Quote: Tartary
            Power - it’s such an insidious thing, Sasha ..

            Smirnov has power, but I have never had it, and not one moderator has it eithercrying And I want to become a governor and marry Putin’s daughter winked
            1. Setrac
              Setrac 8 October 2013 23: 01 New
              +2
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              And I want to become a governor and marry Putin’s daughter

              In the reverse order, first on Putin’s daughter, and then immediately to the governors. bully
            2. Tartary
              Tartary 9 October 2013 03: 23 New
              +1
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              Smirnov has power, but I have never had it, and not one moderator has it either. And I really want to become a governor and marry Putin’s daughter

              Offset ... lol
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              What I remember, especially the story of the Odessa and your mats left and right.

              Do not lie! There were no mats, but there were allegorical expressions with which I am fabulously rich ... So rich that my ability to convey a picture written in words sometimes exceeds the ability of the A-appraiser to correctly assess the reality in which he, after reading a comment addressed only to him, turns out to be ...
              I’ll even say more ... The friends of this A-opponent also "swim" and begin to behave inappropriately, taking the picture I created for the allegedly written obscene words ... I and some copies have those glorious times, if that ...
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              Yes, I remember, you still dreamed of becoming a marshal by his last nickname, here you’ll become faster +.

              These are your speculations, Alexander ... They don’t judge by themselves - that’s how adequate people used to say in my youth ...
              When you, together with your gang, conspiring to deliberately lower my rating every day on purpose, I asked Smirnov to make me ordinary. But your shobla did not calm down and drove me into the skulls and not only me. Smirnov was silent.
              I left the site, and returned only six months later ... But during my absence, I often visited the site as a Guest - to watch how your coalition scoffed at the rating of those whom I no longer see under old nicknames ...
              Yes, and when he returned he saw and felt on himself again your zeal to be a "padishah" ... lol
              And you say that there is no power ...

              Is the goal achieved? Or not yet ??
              1. Ruslan67
                Ruslan67 9 October 2013 05: 15 New
                +2
                Quote: Tartary
                And then with all sorts of giggles and dummies, I accumulated an epaulet on myself.

                Quote: Tartary
                Forgot how to troll the forum with your bandeika two years ago?

                Quote: Tartary
                . But your shobla did not calm down and drove me into the skulls and not only me.

                all expressed7 I was ranked as a new gang of marshals when I was not even a general request maybe it’s time to turn on the brains and understand that it’s not about shoulder straps on ava? I myself without any admins or moderators drove a bunch of boors into the skulls am and at the same time, it has grown to the same epaulette. Maybe the point is that you are the character of Norwegian fairy tales or should you be treated very tolerantly as it should be according to pan-European values?
                1. Tartary
                  Tartary 9 October 2013 05: 48 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Ruslan67
                  voiced everything7


                  And what, boredom overcame?
                  1. Ruslan67
                    Ruslan67 9 October 2013 05: 54 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Tartary
                    And what, boredom overcame?

                    I'm starting to feel myself again at a combat post soldier
                    1. Tartary
                      Tartary 9 October 2013 15: 25 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Ruslan67
                      I'm starting to feel myself again at a combat post


                      So you always need not to relax - all of a sudden, and we are in a warm bath, naked and without weapons ...
              2. Alexander Romanov
                Alexander Romanov 9 October 2013 05: 32 New
                +1
                Quote: Tartary

                Do not lie! There were no mats, but there were allegorical expressions with which I am fabulously rich ..

                For allegorical do not fly away in an eternal ban!
                Quote: Tartary
                They don’t judge by themselves - this is how adequate people used to say in my youth ...

                On the arrows of the gopniks laughing
                Quote: Tartary
                When you, together with your gang, conspiring, every day deliberately began to very lowly lower my rating

                Was the case wink
                Quote: Tartary
                I asked Smirnov to make me private.

                I remember this day well, at that time you had 9 warnings and I slammed you for the next mate 10. The admin removed it from you, but reset the rating, so let's not
                Quote: Tartary
                I left the site and returned only six months later ..

                Gash belay
                Quote: Tartary
                Yes, and when he returned he saw and felt on himself again your zeal to be a "padishah" ..

                Yes, I remember when you removed 1000 ratings from you for running and trying to drive a newcomer into your skull, minus all his comments, including replays.
                Quote: Tartary
                And you say that there is no power ...

                There would be power, then a dozen or two visitors, would already be in an eternal bath, and so sad
                Quote: Tartary
                Is the goal achieved? Or not yet ??

                Okay, I persuaded, I will buy sayit and then all the thunder and lightning will fall on the heads of those who ...... from Khabarovsk wassat
                1. Ruslan67
                  Ruslan67 9 October 2013 05: 40 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Alexander Romanov
                  For allegorical do not fly away in an eternal ban!

                  Alexander wassat Well, be objective, I didn’t fly away for an open ban. request Red Editor am laughing + ancient Greek so that you censors homegrown ............ bully drinks hi
                2. Tartary
                  Tartary 9 October 2013 06: 03 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Alexander Romanov
                  I remember this day well, at that time you had 9 warnings and I slammed you for the next mate 10. The admin removed it from you, but reset the rating, so let's not

                  Why not? Did Smirnov share personal correspondence with you?
                  Quote: Alexander Romanov
                  Okay, I persuaded, I will buy sayit and then all the thunder and lightning will fall on the heads of those who ...... from Khabarovsk

                  Did you catch the initial stage? In Vladivostok, it’s like two fingers on the asphalt ... request
                  Quote: Alexander Romanov
                  There would be power, then a dozen or two visitors, would already be in an eternal bath, and so

                  Enamel on dentures must be protected ... Dentistry is now not cheap "pleasure" ...
                  Quote: Alexander Romanov
                  Gash

                  Well, if such an explanation of the missed time period is closer, then consider that YES ... I had to stay for a long time ...
                  Quote: Alexander Romanov
                  For allegorical do not fly away in an eternal ban!

                  With your participation, not such miracles happen ...
                  Quote: Alexander Romanov
                  Yes, I remember when you removed 1000 ratings from you for running and trying to drive a newcomer into your skull, minus all his comments, including replays.

                  I "ran" after the newcomer, and you follow me - that’s hilarious ...
                  It was better to clean up the site when newbies trolled in several of the same comments multiple times - people got tired of reading ... But you still didn’t figure it out, smart moderator ... What is it?
                  Quote: Alexander Romanov
                  On the arrows of the gopniks

                  There weren’t such then - gopniks are already the conquest of your generation ...
                  Quote: Alexander Romanov
                  There would be power, then a dozen or two visitors, would already be in an eternal bath, and so

                  And this phrase is proof of that.
                  Imagine - Alesander Romanov on an empty site "fly swatter" finishes off the last "officers", and even "generals", zealously guarding newcomers ...
                  At the same time, he speaks in capital letters with himself ... lol

                  Well, well ... Come on, come on.
                  1. Ruslan67
                    Ruslan67 9 October 2013 06: 07 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Tartary
                    Well, well ... Come on, come on.

                    Well, there is an interlocutor what But can I ask you a question? Is Stavr Godinovich the result of a hangover syndrome or an identification mark for foreign intelligence services?
                    1. Tartary
                      Tartary 9 October 2013 15: 28 New
                      0
                      Quote: Ruslan67
                      But can I ask you a question? Is Stavr Godinovich the result of a hangover syndrome or an identification mark for foreign intelligence services?

                      The question is possible, but you may not like the answer at all ...

                      In order not to upset you, it’s better not to say anything.
                  2. Alexander Romanov
                    Alexander Romanov 9 October 2013 06: 15 New
                    0
                    Quote: Tartary
                    Did Smirnov share personal correspondence with you?

                    Then you poke me, then you poke, let’s decide already. As for personal correspondence, he doesn’t ban a person just like that, he very often consults with moderators or tries to find another way.
                    Quote: Tartary
                    In Vladivostok, it’s like two fingers on the asphalt.

                    And then wink
                    Quote: Tartary
                    Enamel on dentures must be protected.

                    Yes, I have mine (for now) and you are not a dentist for an hour? Why I ask, but you never know, maybe it will come in handy.
                    Quote: Tartary
                    . I had to stay for a long time ...

                    In jail belay
                    Quote: Tartary
                    With your participation, not such miracles happen ...

                    Yes, it's all my fault, but you have nothing to do with it.
                    Quote: Tartary
                    It was better to clean the site when newbies trolled,

                    The newcomer did not troll, then there were problems on the site and many had repetitions of comments, including yours. So do not la la.
                    Quote: Tartary
                    Imagine - Alesander Romanov on an empty site

                    So you’ll be registered again wassat
                    1. Tartary
                      Tartary 9 October 2013 15: 23 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Alexander Romanov
                      So you’ll be registered again

                      Everything is possible ... But according to the mood.
                      Quote: Alexander Romanov
                      Yes, it's all my fault, but you have nothing to do with it.

                      I will leave no comment
                      Quote: Alexander Romanov
                      Yes, I have mine (for now) and you are not a dentist for an hour? Why I ask, but you never know, maybe it will come in handy.

                      I’m still a chiropractor, surgeon, anesthetist, and a proctologist, if I really need to ... repeat
                      Quote: Alexander Romanov
                      Then you poke me, then you poke, come on already determined.

                      Sasha, everything is according to the situation ... Where you are accurate, I will contact you at YOU ...
                      And where not quite, it is only academically.
                      Will such an option?
    5. Mature naturalist
      Mature naturalist 8 October 2013 21: 56 New
      +2
      Solid work. Scrolling from top to bottom. Now 2013, the USSR has long been somewhere behind. You can not enter twice in the same river. We must go forward.
    6. Polovec
      Polovec 8 October 2013 21: 57 New
      +4
      not knowing what happened, how do you know what to strive for?
    7. Patriot.ru.
      Patriot.ru. 8 October 2013 22: 34 New
      +2
      You do not know how it was therefore a problem now.
    8. Sergey_K
      Sergey_K 8 October 2013 22: 38 New
      0
      Judging by the minuses, the majority live in the past.
      1. Nikolaitch
        Nikolaitch 10 October 2013 20: 29 New
        0
        "Judging by the cons, the majority live in the past."

        Most do not consider history a useless and boring subject.
  2. Canep
    Canep 8 October 2013 08: 05 New
    +6
    And now bite your elbows, now you need to work and rebuild the country (RBC). Ukraine decided to go its own way, a tablecloth-path, then they themselves will crawl, and even half of Eastern Europe will be brought to the EU, I think so. Czech Republic, Bulgaria, Hungary, Slovakia, already regret that they entered the EU. The Balts moved closer to the European aftershocks, so that it would be more convenient to clean them, soon some non-citizens would remain there. Serbia openly announces entry into the CU, but there is no common border.
    Friendship is possible among equals. It is difficult to consider LITHUANIA and Germany as equal countries.
    1. mirag2
      mirag2 8 October 2013 08: 12 New
      +1
      That's it, I didn’t even read, break off and get upset, as it would be good ...
  3. domokl
    domokl 8 October 2013 08: 53 New
    -4
    Quote: Igor39
    If grandmother had ..., then she would be a grandfather.

    I agree completely ... Add another beard lol
    And according to the article. What is it about? About the fact that we have to realize something there? About how it would be? About why we? Pure water verbiage.
    Sitting and tearing hair on the head-Ah, what we have lost ... the lot of weaklings. And the author is just in my opinion from such whiners. It’s better to read some Natsik who calls to ruin everything than such an article. Natsik, though not acceptable me, but the position ... And this.
    Minus in full and I do not advise reading ..
    1. Nikolaitch
      Nikolaitch 10 October 2013 20: 46 New
      +1
      true verbiage.
      Minus in full and I do not advise reading ..

      Judging by the comments, they themselves did not read everything. The author gives an analysis. Here you have to think, use various parts of the brain ... and silently take note for the future. After all, the author proved his conclusions convincingly.

      It is clear that such long texts are difficult for fans of various positions ... Analyze more and react more calmly. hi
  4. Civil
    Civil 8 October 2013 09: 25 New
    -8
    The people of the USSR itself made their choice towards capitalism, for those who begin to speak like a child, "everyone decided for us," I will answer in Lenin's words "the price of that revolution that cannot defend itself is worthless"
    1. yur
      yur 8 October 2013 23: 51 New
      +3
      The people of the USSR did not make a choice in the direction of capitalism, they did not! The people were brazenly deceived. Remember what Yeltsin "grew up" with in his alleged "struggle" against the "illegal" privileges of the party elite. Here the people supported him. And if he then gave a hint that he was going to return capitalism, people would have torn it along with the tank on which it was perched.
  5. Geisenberg
    Geisenberg 8 October 2013 13: 16 New
    -10
    Quote: Igor39
    If grandmother had ..., then she would be a grandfather.


    Yeah ... another whining about how cool it was in the esseser. And the fact that this scribbler would now bring down the forest in the gulag, he naturally does not think, he believes that there is only one voice of the people ...
  6. lelikas
    lelikas 8 October 2013 14: 06 New
    -1
    Quote: Igor39
    If grandmother had ..., then she would be a grandfather.

    And yet, then we would not have the Internet. belay
    1. Igor39
      Igor39 8 October 2013 14: 37 New
      0
      But if the cheburashka had grown? What would it be? Something like this. laughing
  7. starshina78
    starshina78 8 October 2013 20: 31 New
    +5
    If not applicable for the story! I completely agree with the author of the article! The destruction of the USSR is a well-planned action. Under whose direction? It is still unknown, but the names of the curators of this process may someday be known, and the performer is known - Gorbachev. I can confirm with full confidence that the seventies - the beginning of the eighties - these are the best years of the life of the USSR. At the beginning of the 70s I started working, at the beginning of the 80s, work began as a manager of a production site, and then in increasing order. I will not talk about the global, but I will only say about the native plant - in the 80s we were inundated with orders for the production of equipment: Nigeria, Germany, Argentina, Japan (in the 70s there was an order in the USA), countries of the socialist camp, and domestic orders. nearly 15000 people worked, almost all workshops in three shifts. The fame about the plant was booming all over the world. Perestroika began, the state did not need the plant, and nobody taught us to work in market conditions. And what is the result? The sales market has been lost, some technologies (unique, unique in the world) were sold by the plant’s management over the hill (just to grab money), after the arrival of “effective managers” from the side who came up with the scandal, from the mask show and buying up shares, the plant began to be destroyed. The machines were torn apart and sold - this was called streamlining the technological process and reducing taxes on equipment (part of the machines and equipment sold and destroyed sent to the pile driver for re-melting should be used in case of war), the workshops began to be closed and leased out, steel expel old workers, replacing them with migrant workers, hence the marriage and the rejection of products by customers. For that, more or less money production was withdrawn from the plant by organizing an LLC. This is not only with us, everywhere. There was the USSR, there was the Gosplan, there was Vneshtorg, which gave the task to the plants, gave what the plants needed in order to work and fulfill the plan, producing products, and now what the hell. The market! Not a market - this is a bazaar!
    1. michajlo
      michajlo 9 October 2013 17: 51 New
      +1
      Hello dear! Sorry, I don’t know how to dignify you by name, you are used to knowing to contact the person you are talking to by name.

      Regarding the fact that the collapse of the Union was a planned action, this is, alas, a sick but truthful fact. am The fact that Gorbachev, everyone blames for his collapse, is just a widespread misconception, by the way, also prepared in advance. Well, just "Judah MSG" was a greed for fame, money, medals and bonuses, and for their sake he was ready to sell his mother.

      Regarding the true organizers of the collapse of the USSR, I already wrote a little here, and I will continue to clarify this “cover legend” that supposedly the “MSG perestroika” can do for all the troubles, because according to my information, “the rotten tip itself is the culprit KGB ”, which worked on this opportunity since the 70s !!!

      This former communist for me, a very unpleasant and painful fact, I personally digested and double-checked for a long time, because what I had heard and read in Czech and Slovak sources, a description and reverse analysis of the preparation, conduct
      - and most importantly, the close and distant consequences of the so-called "velvet revolution" in the former Czechoslovakia in Noah 1989 ",
      - This confirms on all counts.

      And if we take that the scenario of the coup in the CSFR (2nd Czechoslovak Republic) was the same as in other countries of the post-USSR (Hungary, Poland, Romania and the last East Germany),
      - then when analyzing events in the USSR for 1985-1991,
      - I am personally convinced that this accusation of “CHANGE of the Motherland” against the top of the KGB is correct!

      Other forces in the country (USSR) and all ATS that have power, specialists, employees, non-controlled sources of funding, contacts with "friendly" Western intelligence services, for the "CONTROLLED transfer of power" to the post-ATS, their trusted agents of socialist intelligence services, who spoke as an “honest and principled opposition to the social regime,” neither I, nor you, WILL FIND ANYWHERE!

      And I personally can’t believe that everything that was built on the bones and blood of the Soviet people and the Communists in Eastern Europe for many decades, is just so “playful”,
      - was destroyed in 4 years in the post-ATS (1985-1989)
      - and for 6 years in the USSR (1985-1991)
      “IS IT ONE WITH A HUMAN BOOT OF HORBIE & CO !?”

      I don’t believe in chance, and it’s just some kind of MSG that was so capable, clever, foresight, and he planned everything, did it, and after all the betrayal, did he survive ?, receives HOSPENSION ?, and even at times “ORDERED by him of a devoted country” (for what and from whom?) ...

      Well, dear forum users, my words and conclusions will be enough for you to start, so that a decent person immediately spoils his mood, has lost his appetite and has the urge to vomit, with only the mention of the words "the leadership of our brave and fearless security officers and our Central Committee of the CPSU"? !

      Sincerely, Mikhailo.
  8. alone
    alone 8 October 2013 21: 34 New
    +1
    and if aunt had ..., then she would be an uncle wassat
  9. NordUral
    NordUral 19 July 2017 12: 29 New
    0
    If we then had brains, not Wishlist. It will be more accurate.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Apologet insane
    Apologet insane 8 October 2013 07: 51 New
    16
    The whole point of the article is in the phrase "After the Stalin Murder".
  • 10kAzAk01
    10kAzAk01 8 October 2013 08: 03 New
    10
    ... in Russia they always looked for the guilty !!! in this case EVERYONE knows who is guilty !!! why no responsibility ??? ...... oh I know that it’s stupid to ask about it ....
  • Troy
    Troy 8 October 2013 08: 06 New
    20
    Gorbachev to the count!
    1. nazgul-ishe
      nazgul-ishe 8 October 2013 14: 56 New
      +1
      My friend YOU are too compassionate, let him stay in Gadyukino for retirement. And put seven so that he doesn’t hang himself but LIVES.
    2. alone
      alone 8 October 2013 21: 36 New
      +1
      no or maybe still hang upside down to spit in your face it was more convenient? otherwise we won’t get it on the stake
  • Volkhov
    Volkhov 8 October 2013 08: 10 New
    -14
    The USSR is the first stage of American colonization with a length of 70 years, now the next one. Yes, the USSR is better than the Russian Federation in many elements, as the first stage of the disease is better than the subsequent ones, but it’s actually good to be healthy.
    It is necessary to return to the Hyperborea system, the times of wisdom and power, and not to consider the length of the trolleybus lines (it is completely unclear what such statistics say in the article). This is another science and society, an open world and access to space, and there is an affluence for this.
    If this is not done, then it will still be and partly there, but the language of the new Hyperborea will be German.
    1. klimpopov
      klimpopov 8 October 2013 09: 28 New
      +2
      If this is not done, then it will still be and partly there, but the language of the new Hyperborea will be German.

      wassat
      To be honest I HZ what to tell you.
      The question has appeared. And what kind of country is such a mythical Hyperborea? This political entity was or is it the name of the territory.

      In general, all this garbage that would be ... yes if only ...
      I went to read about armored trains.
      1. Volkhov
        Volkhov 8 October 2013 10: 01 New
        0
        Hyperborea is the Greek name for ours. Not a country, but civilization; around was Barmia (Biarmia) like Ukraine on the edge of Russia. Completely unique, but you can take an example.
  • saag
    saag 8 October 2013 08: 13 New
    10
    We must return to socialism. this is perhaps the only goal at the moment that can unite many, and much of the “well-forgotten old” section, people are controlled by officials, more precisely, routine operations in the field of public services are made, it’s bubbeise, our motto is “they took out a woman - she put a machine gun "
    1. Garrin
      Garrin 8 October 2013 08: 31 New
      +4
      Quote: saag
      control over officials more precisely their elimination,

      But from now on, in more detail, please. wink
    2. waisson
      waisson 8 October 2013 08: 42 New
      +5
      late my friend late I had to think with my head earlier
      1. O_RUS
        O_RUS 8 October 2013 10: 04 New
        0
        here is a great comment

        Quote: waisson
        late my friend late I had to think with my head earlier


        and this one

        Quote: major071
        You cannot return the past, you must really look at life and try to fix something in the existing state.
        1. michajlo
          michajlo 8 October 2013 12: 13 New
          10
          O_RUS (2) RU Today, 10:04 _131018 / WTO New
          here is a great comment
          Quote: waisson
          late my friend late I had to think with my head earlier
          and this one Quote: major071
          You cannot return the past, you must really look at life and try to fix something in the existing state.


          Good afternoon, dear nickname without a name! The article itself is good and well-developed, to the author Nikolai, thank you very much from me. good

          I and many of you have put the “-” behind the row from the bottom of my heart. fool It’s better that admins consider me a “hater”, but I can’t read your blind errors without objection.
          I will explain to everyone why.
          Yes, you’re right that today outside of 2013, and not 1985, when you voted to the rostrum of the “Kremlin Palace of Congresses”, WE THROUGH the female hostess of the MSG, who began to diligently voice LATER before him, prepared for the General Secrecy “Speech on perestroika, transparency, acceleration, peace, disarmament and other nasty things. "

          Yes, you are all those who are younger than us (we are a generation with birth in the 50-60s, and you are from the 80-90s), you reproach us all the elders that we PRO * RALI Union, bought into new speeches, freedoms and other "devilish tricks." This is a fact and I personally yes and I think that none of us are the older generation, we are not responsible for ourselves and we cannot justify that I personally was a young communist (since 1978), but then I myself “blindly believed in the words of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union” and didn’t listen to the sensible and critical voices of the old whitened gray-haired people, who immediately saw through the “VILENT essence” of the new modern GenSek and told it to us young! And I was still over their fears then in 1985 laughed, silly and self-confident in their knowledge and higher education ...
          And the old people are ALWAYS right. Therefore, I am from 40-45, when I myself have thought a lot, very carefully listen to the elders, and I appreciate their opinions and concerns, not public figures and politicians, but simple commoners, especially believers (It makes no difference that Catholics / I live in Slovakia, that of the Orthodox)!
          They all advise us, who are younger, not for profit, fame, honor! These old people from the people just help us from the heart, and their advice is UNCERTAINTY and ALWAYS correct.

          But about the REAL reasons for the successful collapse of the Union and now after 30 years, few tell the truth and few of you think about the questions:
          - WHO PUSHED MSG rot in the General Secand 18 years of work in party activity?
          - Whose speeches, thoughts and plansHe represented us as OWN?
          - Who directed him, organized, guarded?
          - and after him the accomplished “difficult mission of Judah” and hundreds of thousands of “new refugees” in the vast expanses of the post-USSR, why didn’t the “ice ax of repayment” and even the bunker still overtake him? Alone The "Order of the New" Russia? From whom and for what?

          Think about it first and then shout in chorus:
          - yes, the Union was outlived itself, it was uncompetitive, bad and other stupidities imposed on you ...
          1. O_RUS
            O_RUS 9 October 2013 22: 36 New
            0
            Quote: michajlo
            and you are from the 80-90s)


            "Why, my" friend, "fellow slander,
            Horse you drive at full speed "

            I'm over 40

            Quote: michajlo
            and other stupidities imposed on you ...


            Ludicrous and ridiculous to a sigh "ah"
            When thinking is simple,
            Suddenly accused of deadly sins,
            Overflowing from empty to empty ...

            So strange when an individual
            Uninvited but recognizing himself for sure,
            Stubborn and confidently stigmatizes
            You yourself, of course, are “immaculate”!
    3. IRBIS
      IRBIS 8 October 2013 12: 05 New
      +1
      Quote: saag
      We must return to socialism. this is perhaps the only goal for the moment,

      Utopia, complete! Peaceful transition is impossible (read Marx), and do another revolution? Right - it’s not even funny, so why step on the rake again?
  • 10kAzAk01
    10kAzAk01 8 October 2013 08: 15 New
    +6
    Another trend is seen that the country whose leader received the Nobel Peace Prize expects collapse !!! GDP REFUSE FROM THIS Crap !!!!!!!!!!!!!
    1. 755962
      755962 8 October 2013 08: 31 New
      +3
      Canadian billionaire Ned Goodman: dollar dominance will soon end

      Presenting an excerpt from a speech by Canadian billionaire, President and CEO of Dundee Corporation Ned Goodman at the Toronto Investment Management Conference, September 12:

      I believe that the dominance of the dollar as a global reserve currency (of which it is de facto) will soon come to an end. This is how I came to this conclusion.


      Read More http://mixednews.ru/archives/42159
    2. varov14
      varov14 8 October 2013 12: 23 New
      +2
      It’s just a recognition by the West of the right direction of development .., then whoever likes what. In general, it's time to think about what to do and with whom.
  • major071
    major071 8 October 2013 08: 19 New
    +6
    Dreams, dreams ... If only, if only. You cannot return the past, you must really look at life and try to fix something in the existing state.
  • Egoza
    Egoza 8 October 2013 08: 23 New
    16
    The article is necessary! At least in order to explain to high school students and students where they hang their noodles on their ears and that they don’t need to be afraid of socialism, but, given the mistakes of the past, they need to return all the best that was during the USSR. Now I’ll copy it and send it for my granddaughter - to argue with classmates, and for my daughter-in-law - she teaches at the university and many students ask questions. Not always enough arguments are enough.
  • mak210
    mak210 8 October 2013 08: 26 New
    0
    Quote: saag
    We must return to socialism


    And how do you see it? And who will do it? The elites are quite happy with this state of affairs, they are not going to live here, wives, children - over the hill. Since tsarist times, we are accustomed to the fact that the state takes care of us, and this state has deceived us. A specific example: after increasing the salary of teachers, I began to receive about 700 rubles. smaller. Mother-in-law, completely divorced from life, broadcasts: "We must complain to Putin during the live broadcasts." Catch it? Putin doesn’t know! And Medvedev, for a similar reason with the doctors, generally claimed that it was a lie. Our management has only one answer to all hints about salaries: “Get out of business.” And how should I feed my family? Other work in the pre-retirement age, as Dimon suggests, is unrealistic for me to find.

    Arrange an orange revolution? And what did this give our neighbors? Going out to the Swamp? So all the leaders have been sitting for the second year, it’s a very complicated business there, it takes a long time to investigate.

    Bile is secreted.
    1. Yarosvet
      Yarosvet 8 October 2013 09: 36 New
      +3
      Quote: mak210
      And how do you see it?
      I will allow myself to answer.

      You have to long and hard to clean your brains - both to yourself and others - in conversations at the household level, in forums, etc.
      Or you have to wait until the ass happens, as a result of which the brains of people will fall into place by themselves.
    2. alex13-61
      alex13-61 8 October 2013 13: 10 New
      +3
      Quote: mak210
      Arrange an orange revolution? And what did this give our neighbors? Going out to the Swamp? So all the leaders have been sitting for the second year, it’s a very complicated business there, it takes a long time to investigate.

      Neither one nor the other returned to socialism as their goal declared ... Past.
      1. Yarosvet
        Yarosvet 8 October 2013 14: 04 New
        +1
        Quote: alex13-61
        Quote: mak210
        Arrange an orange revolution? And what did this give our neighbors? Going out to the Swamp? So all the leaders have been sitting for the second year, it’s a very complicated business there, it takes a long time to investigate.

        Neither one nor the other returned to socialism as their goal declared ... Past.

        Yes, and the Orange Revolution was already - in the 91st
        1. alex13-61
          alex13-61 8 October 2013 15: 46 New
          -3
          Quote: Yarosvet
          Yes, and the Orange Revolution was already - in the 91st

          What is wrong with your dates ...
          1. Yarosvet
            Yarosvet 8 October 2013 16: 30 New
            +3
            Quote: alex13-61
            What is wrong with your dates ...
            Very much so - the demise of the USSR and the assumption of power by EBNya, supported by at least 50% of the population in the wake of the right slogans, followed by wrong deeds, is a standard scenario.
  • Dimy4
    Dimy4 8 October 2013 08: 34 New
    0
    Eh, if yes, if only, but mushrooms would grow in your mouth ...
  • Silkway0026
    Silkway0026 8 October 2013 08: 36 New
    +9
    alas, history does not know the subjunctive mood ... now we need to correct everything. but as ? Putin in the ticks of the liberals? or doesn’t it really break? one option - to clone Stalin (Beria in the kit - a must, raise science)
    1. polly
      polly 8 October 2013 11: 02 New
      +7
      Putin just knows his business tightly, through the CU, through Eurasia, but things are moving ... otherwise, all kinds of clintons wouldn’t come into a heart-rending screech! It's just that the time is different now. We will understand and help.
      1. michajlo
        michajlo 8 October 2013 17: 26 New
        +6
        polly RU Today, 11:02 _131008 / WTO

        Hello dear Pauline!

        It is interesting to read your sincere admiration for Putin (if you really are Pauline?). love

        But are you sure that it is Putin himself who wants a strong and rich Russia, as the core of the new Soyuz-2 / TS?

        After all, he said that whoever regrets the Union is supposedly “stupid” (I don’t remember exactly) !? fool

        Didn’t he obediently “by ORDER because of the Atlantic” drown the ISS in the Pacific Ocean? Didn’t he destroy “operable trains with mobile nuclear weapons” under him?

        Is it not with him that the US Constitution of the Russian Federation constantly operates and is it not with him that the Central Bank of the Russian Federation pumps RUSSIAN currency in the USA to the accounts of the Fed?

        And his patriotism intensified, in my opinion, after the London court recognized “the wealth of Russian billionaires as a state obtained illegally” and thus could be confiscated by Western law enforcement agencies ?!
        Or I'm wrong?

        With all his “patriotic speeches” and, on the contrary, obediently fulfilling the wishes of aligarchs, thieves and pests / reformers, I’m not sure that he worries about the welfare of the Russian people (you are 95%), and that he cares about his own well-being and PERSONAL SAFETY and already has been STRONGLY searching for “HIS reliable successor”, what he himself was for the late EBN ?!

        After all, changes on the nose and very soon the Guarantor may be asked by “incredulous citizens,” and how exactly did Putin love and defend Russia (by the prosperity of the members of the Lake cooperative, the growth in the number of Russian billionaires, the size of his personal condition)?

        This is because Putin was signed in 2000 by the Decree on guarantees of the inviolability of “Comrade Bory” before the law!
        It may be that soon he himself may need the "reality" of this, or the same new law ...
        Or I'm wrong?
        If yes, then correct me, please point me to my miscalculations and mistakes!

        Sincerely, Mikhailo. hi
        1. polly
          polly 8 October 2013 22: 01 New
          +3
          And you do not get sick, dear michajlo! It’s nothing that you doubt my gender, the main thing is (in the light of current trends) not to doubt your own, right? love And with regard to the president of my country, I said exactly as much as I wanted, so leave your seed beads to yourself: they’ll be useful for a more fertile soil. I don’t relate to it. Regards, Polina. hi
  • shitovmg
    shitovmg 8 October 2013 08: 39 New
    15
    In the last years of Soviet power, I was a student and lived much better than now, working as a specialist with higher education. I can not afford a lot of what was natural during my student days. On the 3rd year I received 50 rubles. increased scholarships, + part-time job, spent 110 rubles a month and put aside another savings book. Without limitation, I bought literature, equipment and ammunition for hunting, took photographs ...
    1. Andrey57
      Andrey57 8 October 2013 09: 46 New
      13
      Similarly! At the 4 and 5 courses of the university, he had the usual scholarship of 40 rubles, during the summer he earned in the construction team on the railway 2,000-2,500 rubles by September - this is 200rub. during the 10 school months, in addition, he had a part-time night watchman-loader in the 120 dairy store. In total, the “poor student” had 360-410 rubles a month. As the USSR was destroyed, it’s impossible to get to that level fellow
      The article is needed primarily by young people as a vaccine against verbiage and noodles on the ears that are dumped on their heads.
      1. nazgul-ishe
        nazgul-ishe 8 October 2013 15: 03 New
        +5
        Then they didn’t steal it
    2. POBEDA
      POBEDA 9 October 2013 03: 15 New
      +1
      And in my Baumanka scholarship was 120, when some fives, 84 with fours, 76 like with triples .... they lived normally
      1. Setrac
        Setrac 9 October 2013 11: 58 New
        0
        Quote: POBEDA
        And in my Baumanka scholarship was 120, when some fives, 84 with fours, 76 like with triples .... they lived normally

        These parasites "normally" lived, and the collective farmer in the most prosperous Krasnodar Territory received 60 rubles a month, and he had a family and children.
  • Was mammoth
    Was mammoth 8 October 2013 08: 40 New
    +4
    "Who is to blame and what to do?"
    Eternal Russian questions. To the first question, no one seems to have any doubts. The second question remains.
  • TRex
    TRex 8 October 2013 08: 41 New
    +1
    Having removed their head, they don’t cry through their hair.
    Late to drink Borjomi when the kidneys fell off.


    Anyone add on the topic?
    1. bomg.77
      bomg.77 8 October 2013 09: 16 New
      +5
      Quote: TRex
      Anyone add on the topic?

      Allow?
      "There is no greater regret than missed opportunities!"
    2. Yarosvet
      Yarosvet 8 October 2013 09: 40 New
      10
      Quote: TRex
      Anyone add on the topic?

      Knocked down - fight on your knees
      You can’t get up - step down while lying
      1. IRBIS
        IRBIS 8 October 2013 12: 10 New
        -4
        Quote: Yarosvet
        Knocked down - fight on your knees
        You can’t get up - step down while lying

        “Why don't you shoot?”
        - The cartridges are over!
        - Ivanov, you are a communist !!!!
        And he machineed the machine gun with renewed vigor ...
        This is me to the fact that lying can only crawl.
        1. Yarosvet
          Yarosvet 8 October 2013 13: 37 New
          +5
          Quote: IRBIS
          This is me to the fact that lying can only crawl.

          And I mean, that failure is not a reason to abandon the goal, which, upon closer examination, turns out to be the only true one both from the perspective of today and from the perspective of futurology.
    3. Grbear
      Grbear 8 October 2013 09: 55 New
      +8
      Add. Whoever remembers the old, that eye is gone, and whoever forgets, both.

      For 20 years, much has changed. The USSR collapsed due to people's confidence in "their" power, inertia and economic illiteracy. And there was no internet. And the "democratic" elite used the information resource "to the fullest."

      Now economic literacy has risen sharply. “Helped” banks with loans, the tax inspectorate, “services” utilities and other “achievements” of the West, which had not been heard of before. People began to understand offshore zones, and the leakage of capital, and pension reforms. MDA "allowed" maternal capital a month after the "stuffing" of information.

      The conclusion is simple. To beat the "democrats" with their own weapons. Vote only for those who keep their promises. And first of all, it is necessary to push through the law "On Deputies" (recall procedure, removal of immunity, income). Servants of the PEOPLE must serve.

      By the way, the MDA is going to add the column "Against All" to the ballot. This is nothing more than an attempt to keep EP afloat, as there is no real opposition, and you can spread it by "self-nominees."

      So, gentlemen, the choice is YOU.
      1. Yarosvet
        Yarosvet 8 October 2013 10: 32 New
        +3
        Quote: GrBear
        By the way, the MDA is going to add the column "Against All" to the ballot. This is nothing more than an attempt to keep EP afloat, as there is no real opposition, and you can spread it by "self-nominees."

        I agree with you in many respects, but what has been highlighted ... It turns out that NeDimon is to blame for everything, and the chief strategist seems to have nothing to do with it again.

        Putin's words on the EP forum:
        1. Grbear
          Grbear 8 October 2013 11: 42 New
          +3
          Dear Yarosvet, everything to do with it.

          And they understand that. For example, Seliger (political greenpeace), where P. was. This shows that the authorities took into account the mistakes of the one-party system, but do not want to share it. This is firstly.
          Secondly. The sabotage of e-government and services is obvious. This indicates an understanding of the power of information.
          Thirdly, the process of "Russification" of deputies and state-owned companies shows that "misunderstanding the beloved people of their own happiness" in matters of economics and domestic politics becomes critically dangerous for the current government.
          There are a number of signs, but here it is important not to let yourself calm down and smoothly "crush".
          Do not "from Monday a new life" - it was.

          PS Somewhere it flashed that THEY noted that they were their name. The people distance themselves from power !?
          1. Yarosvet
            Yarosvet 8 October 2013 13: 03 New
            +3
            Quote: GrBear
            This shows that the authorities took into account the mistakes of the one-party system, but do not want to share it.
            I doubt that mistakes have occurred: the task of the government is to prevent mass unrest - not about any development of human potential (occurring through the development of the economy, science, education, culture, medicine, etc.), that is, we are not talking about the development of the country. Just in the current conditions, the likelihood of rebellion is increasing, and therefore unpopular measures should be offset by the appearance of popular ones.

            The sabotage of e-government and services is obvious. It talks about understanding the power of information.
            Everyone understands the power of information for a very long time, the consequence of which is sabotage, but the authorities themselves sabotage - and apparently this state of affairs was supposed from the very beginning, since the creation of the appearance of popular measures is one thing, and their implementation in practice, leading to a dilution of power - another.

            "Russification" of deputies and state-owned companies shows that "misunderstanding of the beloved people of their own happiness" in matters of economics and domestic politics becomes critically dangerous for the current government
            Again - I observe only the appearance of this process.

            but here it’s important not to let yourself calm down
            This is the problem - for example, people claim that the stool will be planted (if it is, then everything is fine), and if the guarantor does not notice direct violations of the Constitution, the next feint will allow him to keep the status quo nothing without changing.

            Somewhere it flashed that THEY noted that they were their name. The people distance themselves from power !?
            The people have long been distanced from the authorities, they have neither the time nor the energy or understanding of what is happening, his only desire is to be left alone.
    4. Ustas
      Ustas 8 October 2013 10: 13 New
      +2
      Quote: TRex
      Anyone add on the topic?

      Man is the smith of his own happiness.
      Without labor you can not catch a fish from the pond.
      We will destroy the whole world of violence.
  • waisson
    waisson 8 October 2013 08: 44 New
    +7
    I think they would be in front of the whole planet and not China
  • Lindon
    Lindon 8 October 2013 08: 51 New
    +3
    22 years have passed - and articles are being written and written.
    It was, but it is already in the past.
    Now is a different era.
    Another question is that it was necessary to go along the Chinese path.
    1. alone
      alone 8 October 2013 21: 40 New
      -2
      Quote: Lindon
      22 years have passed - and articles are being written and written.


      but as if it were yesterday.

      to be honest, personally, I am against reconstructing an alliance in this format. Look at the situation of the former union republics. And what would be the use of such an alliance? Once again, a couple of rich people will be parasitized by the parasite. No, I don’t know about you, I don’t want to.

      and the people are now different. Earlier, people rushed into hell for each other, and now everyone is on the drum like the others.
  • Straus_zloy
    Straus_zloy 8 October 2013 09: 07 New
    15
    Zadolbali all the time talking about the "standard of living" - this indicator does not measure the whole reality

    How about a "quality of life". When the younger generation did not plump in the porches and doorways, but sat in circles in the pioneer palaces or sports sections, when people were not afraid for their tomorrow, were not afraid to remain without work or to be thrown out of the apartment. When high-quality medical care could be obtained without being a millionaire, and it was also not scary to leave the apartment alone late at night, what kind of dollars per capita can you measure?
    1. Yarosvet
      Yarosvet 8 October 2013 09: 48 New
      +1
      Quote: Straus_zloy
      Zadolbali all the time to talk about living standards
      How about quality of life

      One without the other does not exist
  • erased
    erased 8 October 2013 09: 13 New
    +4
    Don’t pour salt on me for sugar ... If yes, if only ... And if Stalin had lived another 5 years and Khrushchev and his accomplices pressed to the nail ... And the CPSU would become not a ruling party, but a socio-political system of education and formation ... And now our spacecraft would scurry between Mars, Venus and the Earth. And even Saturn would have reached ... and not only plowed the vastness of the Bolshoi Theater ...
    Remember how in 1991 the first throat was fought for Yeltsin and independent Russia? (from whom is she independent?) How did they laugh at Brezhnev’s "systemic"? That's all. And now only nostalgic and play an alternative. Sailed.
  • Russ69
    Russ69 8 October 2013 09: 35 New
    +3
    The article gives more, wishful thinking. With the economy that was at the end of the USSR, it would clearly be worse.
    And so that the USSR did not fall apart, it was necessary to rebuild the economy as early as 70 years. By allowing the private sector and other liberal economic gadgets. But retaining full control of the state in the energy sector, military-industrial complex, and even in some places.
    Although guessing, it is not grateful. There is what is and it is necessary to build on this ...
  • dmb
    dmb 8 October 2013 09: 36 New
    +6
    Criticized article. And perhaps the lady gave the most true assessment of the article, which was written not for those who lived under socialism, but for those who know about it from Svanidze’s programs and speeches of the present Guarantor’s company. Already these, including the Guarantor himself, are naturally not interested in its restoration. However, those who criticize cannot refute what was written in the article and cannot offer anything else that could suit the majority of the country's population. Therefore, they immediately go over to the personality of the author, writing him down in whiners and from some budun into the “orange revolutionaries”. The usual cheap reception of persons who have no arguments. The only negative is the passage about the villainous murder of Stalin by Khrushchev. Then the author clearly gave vent to imagination.
  • erofich
    erofich 8 October 2013 09: 39 New
    +3
    Better late than never to understand what happened. Yes, in hindsight we are strong!
  • Revolver
    Revolver 8 October 2013 09: 48 New
    12
    In Moscow, on the Forefront, you need to drive a stake firmly into the ground, and sharpen the upper end. Lubricate with lamb. And put on this Gorbachev M.S., also known as Mishan Mechny.
    1. vkrav
      vkrav 8 October 2013 11: 01 New
      +7
      You suffer from humanism, dear ... Put the whole humpbacked family in a cage (sorry for gluing a pair of sneakers), and carry around Russia, let them, look people in the eyes ... Dreams, dreams ... and he’s afraid of dying, hell for him the VIP boiler is ready - right next to the fuck ... And no priests will pray this chmyr ...
    2. Russ69
      Russ69 8 October 2013 12: 16 New
      +3
      Quote: Nagan
      In Moscow, on the Forefront, you need to drive a stake firmly into the ground,

      One stake does not get off .... Candidates, alas, enough ...
  • Revolver
    Revolver 8 October 2013 09: 52 New
    0
    My previous post was purely in order to check how the people would plus such an uncomplicated proposal, which does not have any additional information or an analysis of any part of the article. And the information - here it is, below.
    The fact that the author of the article forgot or did not consider it necessary to mention is the Decree of the Presidium of the USSR Armed Forces "On Measures to Overcome Alcoholism and Alcoholism and Eradicate Home-Brewing" from, if memory serves, May 17, 1985. Andropov a couple of years before draconian measures put things in order (and did it!), But did not issue such decrees. He was old, experienced, and extremely intelligent. He knew what to do, and what in no case to do. And Gorbachev, a young, hot, eager country to make happy, but who has no special management experience, decided that he would surpass his teacher on the fly. But the experience of managing the combine is not at all like the experience of managing the KGB.
    It is not a shame to admit this, but the reality was as follows:
    1. The people drank. And not only Russians drank both Jews (although they had a reputation as intellectuals, teetotalers), and Tatars (even though it seemed to them that Allah forbade them), and in general the entire fraternal family of peoples. Someone is bigger, some is smaller, who is “andropovka” and “agdam”, who is “ambassadorial” and “massandra”, and who are imported cognac-ports (by the way, the real Port is not at all the paint 777 which is not clear why they called it the noble name "port"). And who wanted to drink, but could not buy (well, let's say late, the shops were closed), they still mined whether moonshine, brakes, BF glue, or exorbitant prices from waiters or taxi drivers.
    2. Due to the sales of alcohol, the money supply was balanced. A considerable part of the salaries paid by the state to workers was returned back to the state through wine and vodka trade. Consumer goods were not enough to pump out a lot of money, the concept of "deficit" did not arise from scratch. Food was artificially cheapened, most likely below cost, then there was the concept of "planned unprofitable enterprises", and practically the entire food industry related to public transport was one of them. Yes, and things were done well then, in our family, the Baltika tube receiver of the 1940s and the Yuryuzan refrigerator of the early 1960s worked safely, so few were eager to replace old but still working household goods, furniture, utensils, and etc. This is to say that without the "drunk" money it was not possible to balance the budget.
    1. Revolver
      Revolver 8 October 2013 10: 06 New
      0
      And the people were greatly complicated by the purchase of alcohol.
      Someone really began to drink less, but the question arose: what to spend the freed money on? And they began to buy ... well, in general, what could they put their eyes on. But the State Planning Commission did not plan these purchases. And the store shelves began to empty.
      Someone began to make money out of speculation with alcohol. And these "unearned incomes" also began to put pressure on the commodity mass. And the store shelves began to empty even more.
      Someone went to bow to the moonshiners with those crumpled rubles, three or five that they could not spend in the liquor store. And for moonshiners, these crumpled pieces of paper were stacked in packs of crispy fifty and a hundred. And these crunchy pieces of paper also needed a way out. And the store shelves again began to empty even more.
      1. Revolver
        Revolver 8 October 2013 10: 17 New
        -4
        And one more aspect. Due to the increase in the production of moonshine, sugar began to disappear from the sale. And the Soviet people were taught bitter experience, and began to stockpile non-perishable products. Grains and canned goods of all kinds, tea and coffee have disappeared or become deficient. And then they began to stockpile manufactured goods - stockings-socks, underwear, shirts.

        There is a saying: "not for the dad beat the son that he played, but for the fact that he recouped." Here is Mishanya, like that son. The budget has staggered - we will decide "acceleration". Did not work? Launch cooperatives. It only got worse - it means the system is inert, it does not turn around. And then the idea of ​​"perestroika" was put forward. What happened next is history. Just do not think that at least someone, at least someday, will describe this story clearly, impartially, and truthfully. At least - not during the lifetime of those who saw it.
        1. Revolver
          Revolver 8 October 2013 10: 22 New
          +1
          I apologize to everyone for the comment in many parts. The original text contained a completely harmless quote from Arkady Raikin, which the server did not want to miss. I had to figure out what kind of material was there that was inadmissible for publication. If any of the moderators or admins are interested in what was there, let me know, I'll send it through a PM.
          1. TRex
            TRex 8 October 2013 11: 19 New
            +5
            Too mundane you came to this story ... In your opinion: quit drinking - started to eat? I found this era in a more or less mature age. I think this is only one of the factors that helped the hunchback to collapse. One of many. Going deep into the topic is not worth it. Enough has been written about this ... But, definitely, as they say: "it was a contract murder." Brzezinski and K applauded for a long time standing. "Best German" brilliantly did his job.
            1. ddmm09
              ddmm09 8 October 2013 11: 29 New
              +2
              I think that there was no mechanism of control over the political elite of our state, which, with full trust of citizens and betrayal of individual members of its elite, led to the destruction of society and the collapse of the economy. Perhaps in our country mechanisms will be created to control the structures of power (executive and legislative) so that from now on there would not be such disasters in the Russian state.
              1. Yarosvet
                Yarosvet 8 October 2013 13: 40 New
                +4
                Quote: ddmm09
                Perhaps in our country mechanisms for controlling power structures will be created

                The current government resists this primarily.
      2. ddmm09
        ddmm09 8 October 2013 11: 20 New
        +7
        Nagan, about your version about alcohol ...
        Sorry, but do you have a more recent idea? At least take a look at the statistics of who drank how much then and now, and, most importantly, how much alcohol we produced. I lived during the USSR, I did not see empty shelves while our state existed as a whole. And there was plenty of money for those who wanted to have it. And earned honestly.
        The percentage of state revenue from alcohol turnover was quite low and drank much less than now. Similar stories about income from alcohol were also told about the Russian Empire before the revolution ... Although the causes of the crisis are completely different! .. I'm tired of listening to such lies.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • saag
    saag 8 October 2013 10: 12 New
    +3
    Quote: mak210
    And how do you see it? And who will do it? The elites are quite happy with this state of affairs,

    Story in Russia has traditionally been changed by the revolutionary method, no other way has been given, the elites are always satisfied with the current state of things, but here is the nuance, by his speech Medvedev, curtsey toward business (this is about the fact that you do not need to save jobs at all costs) started the process creating social tension, I don’t think that he took it this way alone and came up with such a “brilliant” move, apparently it’s a tandem job, so I get the impression that consciously or unconsciously, but society is starting to lead to this process
    1. Grbear
      Grbear 8 October 2013 12: 06 New
      +3
      The system in Russia has traditionally been changed by the revolutionary method, no other way has been given, the elites are always satisfied with the current state of things, but here’s the nuance, by his speech, Medvedev curtsied in the direction of business

      Yes, so far, only two times, but so that shocked the world.
      And with his reverence, MDA-aaa designated its owners, and, as a political figure to him, “kirdyk”. Another question is how far is P ready to move in the direction of STRONG RUSSIA?
  • grafrozow
    grafrozow 8 October 2013 10: 59 New
    +3
    And I say so, having lost their heads through their hair they don’t cry, Hitler was WIN !!! And the "native" CPSU has fucked up the power !!! America, Heerika ... No need to look for pests in someone else’s garden, let's see in our own !!!
  • My address
    My address 8 October 2013 11: 29 New
    +7
    The article is necessary, though long.
    She so people thought with his head. To distinguish the villains, including potential, which appear from the egoists rushing to power, clumsy, weak-tempered, intelligent talkers.
    In the Soviet Union there were a lot of stupid things. And now an order of magnitude more, but vile.
    1. grafrozow
      grafrozow 8 October 2013 12: 00 New
      -6
      Quote: My address
      The article is necessary, though long.
      She so people thought with his head. To distinguish the villains, including potential, which appear from the egoists rushing to power, clumsy, weak-tempered, intelligent talkers.
      You, by chance, not a former political officer? Slogans to the people before zh .... Stop feeding a bright future !!!! Real business, what?
      1. Yarosvet
        Yarosvet 8 October 2013 13: 46 New
        +3
        Quote: grafrozow
        What are the real things?

        Real affairs today are completely antagonistic to the principles of socialism / communism.

        Anyone who believes that the collapse of the USSR destroyed the Union of States is wrong.

        1. grafrozow
          grafrozow 8 October 2013 18: 05 New
          0
          did not drink beer7
          1. Yarosvet
            Yarosvet 8 October 2013 18: 56 New
            +1
            Regularly but not today hi
  • silver_roman
    silver_roman 8 October 2013 11: 41 New
    10
    After reading the article, read the comments on it.
    It is strange that many did not see the essence.
    There is one truth in the article: all our achievements are trying to neutralize at all costs, what we are building is to destroy.
    For our country to develop, we must first destroy the traitors in power who are doing everything so that we remain in a crisis.
    This is how to heat the stove with money. It seems to be warm, but very stupid. So we are: we are trying to build something, many are making serious efforts, and then some reptile, holding hundreds of billions in offshore, crosses all these efforts with one signature with a seal.
    We undertook to build a house from the roof, but we must start from the foundation.
    1. michajlo
      michajlo 8 October 2013 12: 33 New
      +3
      silver_roman (2) UA Today, 11:41 AM _131008 / WTO
      After reading the article, read the comments on it.
      It is strange that many did not see the essence.
      Article there is one truth: all our achievements are trying to neutralize at all costs, what we are building is to destroy.
      That our country has developed, we must first destroy the traitors in power, who are doing everything so that we remain in a crisis.
      It how to heat the stove with money. It seems to be warm, but very stupid. So we are: we are trying to build something, many are making serious efforts, and then some reptile, holding hundreds of billions in offshore, crosses all these efforts with one signature with a seal.
      We undertook to build a house from the roof, but we must start from the foundation.


      Good afternoon, dear Roman!

      You're right, good an old good proverb, “Look at the root,” few people remember here.
      All take the collapse and about ** RANIA Union like a normal fait accompli NOT LAWYER for rebirth not revolutionaries who arrived “with foreign banknotes in their pockets” (Lenin, Trotsky, etc., “burners of life” in the West),

      and by US, the people of the USSR, directly BOTTOM

      without corrupt politicians, the Guarantors of the “jurisdiction of pests and thieves” and a bunch of “taxis” in the Kremlin, the State Duma, the Government, Lubyanka and the “official Kremlin appropriation”.
      1. grafrozow
        grafrozow 8 October 2013 13: 06 New
        0
        Quote: michajlo
        HAVING THE RIGHT to revival, not revolutionaries who arrived “with other people's banknotes in their pockets” (Lenin, Trotsky, etc., “burners of life” in the West),

        and by US, the people of the USSR, directly BOTTOM

        without corrupt politicians, the Guarantors of the “jurisdiction of pests and thieves” and a bunch of “taxis” in the Kremlin, the State Duma, the Government, Lubyanka and the “official Kremlin appropriation”.
        I would say to the peoples of the Russian Empire.
  • nov_tech.vrn
    nov_tech.vrn 8 October 2013 11: 58 New
    0
    a lot has been written and not very convincing; the author just needs to determine it, to determine several factors — the unprofessional leadership of the team of the former first secretary of the regional committee, a short bird, stood at the helm of a huge country, its shortsightedness, conceit and intolerance (real, not in words critics) the manipulators took advantage, and the power of this woodpecker was like that of a king, if not more so, refusal to control top managers, transfer of payments in CMEA to dollars from a transfer ruble !!!, as a result - collapse of the CMEA economic system, collapse The USSR’s economic system was started by raising prices for raw materials and energy, without increasing the working capital of enterprises (economic), and then they started throwing, you won’t list all, the part is reflected in the article, but it’s drowning among the subjunctive mood, they were to blame for everything, of course all but stupidity.
  • Ruslan_F38
    Ruslan_F38 8 October 2013 12: 09 New
    +6
    The article is excellent, the author intelligibly, practically on the "fingers", explained to us how we could live without coming to power Gorbachev and Yeltsin and other thieves trash. He showed that not everything has been lost and much can be changed now, but on one condition - other people should rule the country, because it seems that everything suits the current rulers.
    In other words, it turns out that if the USSR would not be broken now, then 80% of the Russian population would live 5 times better than they are now. Well, what would have happened if the most pessimistic forecast had come true (annual increase in 0%). Then you would live better 4 times. Agree - not bad either. Imagine, the salary in 4 would be higher than the current one, and this at current prices and without taking into account additional factors.
    - five times !!! Yes, even in two - this is a huge achievement!
  • Ruslan_F38
    Ruslan_F38 8 October 2013 12: 17 New
    +1
    Media, let the article be disseminated, put on the table with Putin and others - let people and the authorities get acquainted and draw conclusions!
    1. Max otto
      Max otto 8 October 2013 14: 21 New
      +1
      Quote: Ruslan_F38
      Media, let the article be disseminated, put on the table with Putin and others - let people and the authorities get acquainted and draw conclusions!

      Putin and others need to replicate the work on the revolutions of 1905 and 1917. This will be more useful than this article. And then their scent has become dull, and look, people will soon become dusty and will begin to sprinkle the pitchfork in red.
  • anushin10ru
    anushin10ru 8 October 2013 12: 22 New
    +2
    There was no, no, and perhaps there would no longer be such a country as the USSR was in the world. An attempt to build a society of social justice, equal opportunities, and general welfare was first discredited from outside and with the help of domestic singers. Later, the children of the legendary heroes of socialism spat on their graves and betrayed their dream, destroying the country along the way. Author +, although lamenting for death The USSR is useless.
  • goldfinger
    goldfinger 8 October 2013 12: 28 New
    -1
    From Minsk. The article is intended for the absurd, about 1985. birth and later. Minsk was supplied in the first category, young people do not know what it is, but we also had a deficit in many respects. 30 km from Minsk - a rolling ball. On the shelves of stores - cheap wine, cigarettes "Prima", concrete bread, "sprats in tomato". Perhaps this is the main assortment. Agricultural machinery, or rather, its rusty remains, were clogged with all the farm yards on collective farms. And so on every point of the "successes" of "developed socialism." Ah, what can I say! The author is not “adequate,” as youth say.
    1. grafrozow
      grafrozow 8 October 2013 13: 10 New
      -2
      Quote: goldfinger
      From Minsk. The article is intended for the absurd, about 1985. birth and later.

      I support. Who is ... country? Have you forgotten the lines of sausage?
      1. Misantrop
        Misantrop 8 October 2013 13: 28 New
        11
        Quote: grafrozow
        Have you forgotten the lines of sausage?
        And the taste of that sausage and her price? Appear now SUCH and at the same PRICE, it is so scary to imagine what SIZE the line would be ... lol
        1. grafrozow
          grafrozow 8 October 2013 15: 05 New
          -4
          Quote: Misantrop
          And the taste of the sausage and its price? Appear now SUCH and at the same PRICE, it is so scary to imagine what SIZE the line would be.

          one more political officer, and in the Soviet Union it was the 1st grade, 2nd grade, and the 3rd grade is not a marriage !!! You ate it and thought everyone was happy. Don't you need to measure your pants at all, don’t have any money? - smoke shag! I I can afford cigarettes, I’m not Abromovich, but my hands aren’t growing out of priests, I don’t want to feed the granddaughter of the doctor’s doctor at 2.20. She deserves more.
          1. Misantrop
            Misantrop 8 October 2013 16: 59 New
            +4
            Quote: grafrozow
            another political officer
            For the scandal with the political officer and political department, I was detained for the next rank at the time for 2 years. When I didn’t let an officer from our crew accidentally stumble on the order of the NachPO division ... lol
            Quote: grafrozow
            I can afford cigarettes, I’m not Abromovich, but my hands aren’t growing from the priests, I don’t want to feed the granddaughter of the doctor’s doctor at 2.20.
            A filthy semblance of that sausage is now sold at 89 with a trifle of hryvnia per kg. I take it sometimes, purely nostalgic ...
            Quote: grafrozow
            no money? - smoke shag! I can afford cigarettes
            Let, etched tobacco essence and nicotine paper on American technology, striped flag in hand. I smoke collection tobacco collection in a bog oak pipe 5,5 thousand years old (with a certificate). Well, my hands do not need advertising, and so there are much more people who want to order than I have time to complete the order ... request
          2. alone
            alone 8 October 2013 21: 44 New
            0
            right count! by the way welcome hi I remember this doctoral))) and I still remember green hens for 1-90. only in childhood did not understand why they are green)))
            1. Misantrop
              Misantrop 8 October 2013 22: 12 New
              +4
              Quote: lonely
              I still remember green hens on 1-90. Only in childhood I did not understand why they are green)))
              Naturally, do not remember, because they were of a different color. They were jokingly called the “blue bird” lol And even more so, you can’t remember how much broth and tasty of them was the broth. But doctors recommend draining the first water from modern hens in order not to get an overdose of antibiotics. And the broth smells like anything, but not chicken ... request
              1. chehywed
                chehywed 9 October 2013 01: 06 New
                +2
                Quote: grafrozow
                I can afford cigarettes ...

                Quote: Misantrop
                I smoke a collection of tobacco collection in a bog oak tube 5,5 thousand years old (with a certificate)

                And I boast that I smoked my last cigarette on 30 of June 2009 of the year. Thank you immensely for giving up! And smoked 28 years ... hi
                1. alone
                  alone 9 October 2013 22: 57 New
                  -1
                  wassat how could you leave your 30 year old friend? wassat
  • Nayhas
    Nayhas 8 October 2013 12: 44 New
    -3
    If the USSR were alive, then there would be coupons for computers, everyone would queue for the Internet, AvtoVAZ would produce only VAZ 2110, four tank plants would finally flood the country with tanks, on the raid of Vladivostok, the aircraft carrier Ulyanovsk would quietly chase if there was no coastal infrastructure for it, internal troops would regularly conduct counter-terrorist operations in the Baltic states, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, and Nagorno-Karabakh, and at the next CPSU Congress, Secretary General Yanaev would periodically forget words by 2020. provide the whole country with cellular communications ...
  • Peaceful military
    Peaceful military 8 October 2013 12: 55 New
    +7
    Hmm ...
    You read it and such anger rises to the liberals. By God, I’m peaceful, but in this case I want to kill.
    Here, back in the ESSR, in my opinion in 1976, on the eve of the Olympics (and the Olympic Regatta was supposed to be held in Tallinn), Swiss experts conducted a study on the standard of living. So, the conclusion was that in terms of living we did not live much worse than neighboring Swedes and Finns. What was missing, like those, was the free sale of personal vehicles, Japanese equipment, rubbing jeans and LP records with all the popular musicians (although all this was somehow mined and something was produced at home). And, you still can’t move freely around the world without the need for service / work, but the USSR was so diverse that everything was there to go around, life was not enough. If this determines the quality of life, then in the coffin I saw such a life. The Liberastans, on the other hand, imposed precisely these animal standards of life. We know the result.
    Eh !!! angry
    1. michajlo
      michajlo 8 October 2013 13: 04 New
      +3
      Peaceful Military EE Today, 12:55 PM New
      Hmm ...
      Read it and such anger rises against the liberals. By God, though I’m peaceful, but in this case you want to kill.


      Good afternoon, dear Andrew!
      I agree with you. good

      But still, we probably once upon a time (1976) still in the lessons of general military training in the 10th grade of high school, probably not for nothing was shown and taught disassemble SCS, three-ruler, AK and shoot from AK to the shooting range.

      And it is quite possible that one of the more intelligent and prudent even then, in the 70s, was preparing us for what would come in the 2010s and we again FRIENDLY:
      - "This is our last and decisive battle" !?


      For some reason in life, for some reason I don’t believe all events are an interconnected chain, just a lot of what we saw, we understand already after years or decades.
      1. Peaceful military
        Peaceful military 8 October 2013 13: 29 New
        +3
        For some reason I don’t believe in chance in life, all events are an interconnected chain, just a lot of what we saw, we understand already after years or decades.

        Good afternoon, dear Mikhailo!
        And I absolutely agree with you.good
        How many public people, quite liberal liberal views, sharply and publicly dissociated themselves from them and left the camp of liberalists. For example, E. Fedorov, A. Wasserman, Yu. Polyakov, etc.
        hi
        1. michajlo
          michajlo 8 October 2013 14: 05 New
          0
          Peaceful Military EE Today, 13:29 _131008 / WTO
          ... I absolutely agree with you.good
          How many quite public people, quite liberal views, sharply and publicly dissociated themselves from them and left the camp of liberalists. For example, E. Fedorov, A. Wasserman, Yu. Polyakov, etc.


          Hello Andrei! Can we switch to YOU?

          Yes, you're right, many people have changed or overestimated their views and now they say and look at “old unshakable things” in a completely different way.
          From time to time I follow famous personalities and publicists, among whom are the talents of the pen and the living word, it's always worth listening to them.

          The only thing I'm in my mature years now a priori, I don’t believe anyone and do anything, but I cast doubt on everything, check from different sources, sometimes I find the necessary and missing “aspect or detail” not just in the words of “friends”, like like-minded people, but direct enemies / opponents !?

          Do not be offended by me for my judgment, I am interested in reading your remarks, but I see myself in them at the age of 20-30, when I had a lot of “blind naive faith and credulity”, which I regret only now.
          In the same way, you don’t have to believe me, because behind my long and twisted words, may be hidden “the second, vile design”? I advise you, re-check everything from different sources. Well, after brainstorming (sometimes even after months or years), you yourself will receive YOUR personal opinion, which may coincide or be different from others.

          Regarding the persons you mentioned and admiration for example by Fedorov, I can say that I know little to judge him, but so far I have nowhere in the post-USSR and post-ATS, I did not see an honest and binding politician, publicist and analyst, which, in addition to promises, also fulfills them!
          With the exception of Lukashenko, in recent years I have been his biggest supporter. good
          1. Peaceful military
            Peaceful military 8 October 2013 15: 04 New
            +2
            Regarding the persons you mentioned and admiration of Fedorov, for example, I can say that I know little to judge him, but so far I have never seen an honest and binding politician, publicist or analyst anywhere in the post-USSR or post-ATS, which, in addition to promises, also fulfills them!
            With the exception of Lukashenko, in recent years I have been his biggest supporter.

            Hello again!smile
            Come on you.
            I did not speak about admiration. I just said about the transformation. Depth and sincerity, a matter of their conscience. But, stupid V.I. Ulyanov / Lenin argued that in order to achieve a result it is necessary to block with those who are not against you ...
            Alexander Grigorievich Lukashenko, much slandered by the liberals with their pads, really causes great respect for the consistency and the line itself. One concern, continuity.
            I advise you, re-check everything from different sources.

            Thanks for the advice!smile
            I, too, am no longer young, the 6th dozen is coming, so I do not judge it rashly.
            soldier
            1. michajlo
              michajlo 8 October 2013 17: 31 New
              +1
              Hello Andrey!

              Sorry, but your photo "from a young age." hi

              I’m talking about your admiration, I wrote because of the tone of your Notes that “it’s the truth for you in the last resort”.

              You and I are almost the same age, let's talk through PS? smile
        2. grafrozow
          grafrozow 8 October 2013 15: 41 New
          -1
          Quote: Peaceful military
          How many public people, quite liberal liberal views, sharply and publicly dissociated themselves from them and left the camp of liberalists. For example, E. Fedorov, A. Wasserman, Yu. Polyakov, etc.
          and you don’t want a static candidate?
          1. Peaceful military
            Peaceful military 8 October 2013 15: 46 New
            +1
            and you don’t want a static candidate?

            What candidate?
            Yes and poke not the same, we didn’t drink to the Brudershaft.
            hi
            1. grafrozow
              grafrozow 8 October 2013 17: 40 New
              0
              Andrew, in the ass back, your slogan.
              1. Peaceful military
                Peaceful military 8 October 2013 20: 55 New
                +2
                Andrew, in the ass back, your slogan.

                Alexander, where did I say that to return "in the ass"? Where did the author say to return "in the ass"?
                You and others like you have a strange dislocation of the brain about current discussions about the USSR. You froze in a certain negative about the USSR model of collapse, not accepting either the previous, or the collapse accompanying, or the likelihood of another vector of the USSR DEVELOPMENT (as the author says, which I join).
                It’s not for me to correct this dislocation for you.
                The name, for example, Andrei, is capitalized. Does a brain dislocation really prevent this?
                hi
      2. grafrozow
        grafrozow 8 October 2013 15: 18 New
        +2
        Quote: michajlo
        still in the lessons of general military training in the 10th grade of high school,
        actually called NVP, hi
        1. michajlo
          michajlo 8 October 2013 15: 30 New
          0
          grafrozow (6) RU Today, 15:18 PM ↑ New

          Quote: michajlo
          still in the lessons of general military training in the 10th grade of high school,
          actually called NVP, hi


          Thank you for clarifying, you are right! Yes, it was an NVP for children and girls had "nursing courses" or what were they called correctly? Could you tell?

          By the way, can I recall my request to the Admins to urgently give out “bulletproof vests and helmets” to forum users?

          Or is it better to write to you, sitting in a trench?
    2. grafrozow
      grafrozow 8 October 2013 13: 24 New
      -1
      Quote: Peaceful military
      You read it and such anger rises to the liberals. By God, I’m peaceful, but in this case I want to kill.

      Quote: Peaceful military
      . And, you still can’t move freely around the world without the need for service / work, but the USSR was so diverse that it was all over there, there wasn’t enough life
      Andrei, say a halva a hundred times, your mouth won’t be sweeter, I’m just sorry for you ... Have you seen the streets without cigarette butts and pieces of ice cream? And the sidewalks washed with shampoo? No, we’ll sit in shit, to the very throat, scream, we’re advanced !!!!! The train left ... hi We’ll no longer be slaves of the CPSU. I will take SVD into my hands, and I’ll give a neighbor ...
      1. Peaceful military
        Peaceful military 8 October 2013 13: 35 New
        +3
        I'm just sorry for you.

        Mercy Alexander!
        I do not need your "pity". You better pity yourself with your views.
        hi
        1. grafrozow
          grafrozow 8 October 2013 17: 47 New
          +1
          Not views, opportunities ...
          Quote: Peaceful military
          Mercy Alexander!
          I do not need your "pity". You better pity yourself with your views.
      2. michajlo
        michajlo 8 October 2013 14: 34 New
        +1
        grafrozow (6) RU Today, 13:24 _131008 / WTO
        ... Have you seen the streets without cigarette butts and pieces of ice cream? And the sidewalks washed with shampoo? No, we’ll sit in shit, to the very throat, scream, we’re advanced !!!!! The train left ... hi We will no longer be slaves of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union. I will pick up the SVD and give it to my neighbor ...

        Good day to you!

        In the photo you look good with your spouse and I wish you and your family all the best! good

        But regarding your phrase, that "for dirt and cigarette butts on the spoiled sidewalk was the CPSU Central Committee responsible ?!" do you remember the old proverb "Purely not where they clean and where they do not litter"?

        You have the right to use any means to protect your family and your views.

        But after your words “about your SVD”, what am I behind the monitor and “wear a helmet and body armor” to continue the discussion with you and similar apt “Suvorov arrows”?

        By the way, admins, where are you? request
        If you understand these phrases (about SVD) as normal, then when will you start issuing personal protective equipment? I have a civilian, they are not there yet. what
        1. grafrozow
          grafrozow 8 October 2013 17: 54 New
          +1
          Mikhailo, you are quickly moving from corporal to general of the Tashkent front.
          1. michajlo
            michajlo 8 October 2013 19: 08 New
            +2
            grafrozow (6) RU Today, 17:54 PM ↑ New
            Mikhailo, you are quickly moving from corporal to general of the Tashkent front.


            Hello "anonymous nickname"!

            Yes, if my "virtual pegs" are an eyesore, scribble some "cart Admins" in the spirit of the fact that here someone has the audacity to "express their own views" when indicating their surname, name and photo and wants to learn from others- mind!

            And what they say in their old-fashioned way of “open discussion” spoils all the brilliant results of the “agitprop and misinformation departments” achieved so far by the “friendly choir” of secret nameless fighters of trolling and rudeness,
            - glorifying "the Russian power of the aligarchof with non-Russian surnames and the Kremlin taxis".

            To me, honestly respected nickname with a nice appearance, the hooks are not the main thing.
            If you are jealous of me, write a petition addressed to Admins, I will agree without hesitation, even if I reset all "my stars" to your epaulettes without indicating the previous owner!

            I'm not greedy, I do not need cheap fame.

            And what about your firearm skills? How, can I discuss with you just like that, or still today I still need a "helmet and body armor" from the Admins to equalize the "chances of survival"?

            I have the honor, Mikhailo. hi
      3. Misantrop
        Misantrop 8 October 2013 14: 38 New
        +5
        Quote: grafrozow
        and I’ll give a neighbor ...
        I have no doubt. And he will have you on the street clean with shampoo ... If you continue to listen to Western advisers you will not stop lol
        Quote: grafrozow
        Have you seen the streets without cigarette butts and pieces of ice cream?

        And there are many such streets there, as a percentage of the total? Although not washed, but not very dirty, I agree. So it's not a lane in hell that knows which hole, but the center of Paris (do you recognize the arch?)
      4. alone
        alone 8 October 2013 21: 46 New
        -3
        laughing and take me to the detachment count.
    3. grafrozow
      grafrozow 8 October 2013 15: 14 New
      0
      Quote: Peaceful military
      You read it and such anger rises to the liberals. By God, I’m peaceful, but in this case I want to kill.
      So come, the smoke of the fatherland is sweet .... The tongue is ringing-not to shed blood.
      1. Peaceful military
        Peaceful military 8 October 2013 15: 39 New
        +3
        So come, the smoke of the fatherland is sweet .... The tongue is ringing-not to shed blood.
        fool
        I'm already at home ...
        1. grafrozow
          grafrozow 8 October 2013 17: 58 New
          -1
          Which ????
          1. Peaceful military
            Peaceful military 8 October 2013 22: 37 New
            0
            Which ????

            On one, on ONE.
  • knn54
    knn54 8 October 2013 13: 07 New
    +9
    Why do we remember CCCP?
    Yes, because in the present we do not live, but vegetate.
    Why do we remember Stalin?
    Yes, because we do not need thieves in power.
    West united and sucked us like a spider fly. Natural wealth sold for dollars and the same dollars (the Stabilization Fund) feed the "foreign land". And now they are afraid that Russia may recreate the “USSR”. We will regain strength and not allow ourselves to be robbed.
    And without looting (creating maximum profit), a capitalist economy cannot exist. The USSR would not collapse, the West would collapse.
    PS The collapse of the Soviet Union can only be seen as a defeat for all of humanity.
    1. Sour
      Sour 8 October 2013 13: 51 New
      -5
      In Union times, the Russian Federation (with the exception of Moscow, Leningrad and several closed cities) lived worst of all in the USSR. Not only worse than Ukraine or the Baltic states, but much worse than Georgia, Moldova and Uzbekistan. This is a fact, and I remember it very well. We still need to figure it out - when Russia was robbed more, then or now. Personally, I don’t need empty shelves again in the shops of the Russian province where I was born, grew up and now live. I admit (and even know) that in Ukraine during the USSR it was different. But what am I doing?
      1. Sour
        Sour 8 October 2013 14: 05 New
        -1
        And you minus, minus, comrade communists ...
        There is nothing to cover the truth. Only minus quietly and remains. )))
        1. michajlo
          michajlo 8 October 2013 14: 21 New
          +3
          Sour SU Today, 14:05 ↑ New
          And you minus, minus, comrade communists ...
          There is nothing to cover the truth. Only minus quietly and remains. )))


          Good afternoon, dear "nameless nickname"!

          I am minus you out in the open, not embarrassed that we are with you “An unnamed fighter for truth” what , we have different views on the history of the USSR.

          For example, I, too, was a communist from 1978 to 1991, since then I have only been b / p. And I'm not ashamed of the fact that I was a member of the party.
          But I am ashamed for the fact that I blindly believed everything in my youth, and the instructions and statements of the party apparatus did not cast doubt and did not ask everyone, “Why is this this way and that?”, Although I had to do this more and more often. fool

          Sincerely. Mikhailo. hi
          1. Sour
            Sour 8 October 2013 14: 37 New
            -5
            Good afternoon, familyless Mikhailo!
            And yet you can only minus and can, even if openly, even if hidden. But to explain why my native Russian province under you Communists lived worse than anyone else in the USSR, here you are modestly silent. Because there is not a word about this in your Red Book quotes.
            I remember perfectly the full store shelves in Ukrainian and Belarusian cities. I saw two-story Georgian mansions. And I remember Russian shops, where there was nothing besides canned fish and "chatters".
            The “brotherly peoples” explained this very simply - Russian lazy people and drunks, therefore they live like that. At the same time, they accused the Russians of all sins.
            Personally, I live normally, and I do not want my children and grandchildren to feed the Russophobic darmomed. And that is precisely what you want, comrades, "supporters of brotherhood and unity."
            And you Communists, you hate Russia with the most fierce hatred. For you, it is "oligarchic, Putin-Medvedev", etc. You would have gladly put her into the expense of building another rotten empire, where everyone lives at the expense of Russia, but at the same time she is cursed, ridiculed and blamed for everything.
            Do not be your way.
            1. michajlo
              michajlo 8 October 2013 14: 55 New
              +2
              Sour SU Today, 14:37, 131008 / WTO New

              Good afternoon, familyless Mikhailo!
              And yet you can only minus and can, even if openly, even if hidden. But to explain why my native Russian province under you Communists lived worse than anyone else in the USSR, here you are modestly silent. Because there is not a word about this in your Red Book quotes. I remember perfectly the full store shelves in Ukrainian and Belarusian cities. I saw two-story Georgian mansions. And I remember Russian shops, where there was nothing besides canned fish and "chatters".
              The “brotherly peoples” explained this very simply - Russian lazy people and drunks, therefore they live like that. At the same time, they accused the Russians of all sins.
              Personally, I live normally, and I do not want my children and grandchildren to feed the Russophobic darmomed. And that is precisely what you want, comrades, "supporters of brotherhood and unity."
              And you Communists, you hate Russia with the most fierce hatred. For you, it is "oligarchic, Putin-Medvedev", etc. You would be happy to expend it to build another rotten empire, where everyone lives at the expense of Russia, but curses it, ridiculed and blamed for everything. Do not be your way.


              Hello "nameless and nameless nickname / incognito"!

              It is visible to you “In operational tips” gave little data for sprinkling poisonous saliva "reform and adjustment"?
              Firstly, it turns out I have a surname, look in my profile and even a photo(Well, I'm not skinny, my face does not fit on the screen).
              You know, I’m used to it, especially when you say something to someone and especially criticize that you first need to introduce yourself.
              You know the remnants of old-regime education.

              Firstly, in addition to “drunk and dirty Russia,” why from it to my native Subcarpathian Russia (current Transcarpathia) came, lived and worked engineers, technicians, teachers, doctors and many others. I’m not talking about the other outskirts of the “great and mighty”, there were many more.

              Secondly, if you criticize people who wish Russia wealth and prosperity, because only STRONG and ONE Russia can be the CENTER of the new Union-2, you accept as "fierce hatred"?, so it’s just your organic rejection all who do not scream without hesitation
              “Hurray to oligarchs with non-Russian surnames and Kremlin taxis!”

              Thirdly, the last request to you: “Open the face of Gyulchatay?” love (film "The White Sun of the Desert").

              Sincerely, Mikhailo.
            2. goldfinger
              goldfinger 8 October 2013 17: 16 New
              +2
              From Minsk. Once, for the first time I arrived on a business trip to Kalinin. now Tver. While I settled in the hotel at the factory, until now, behold, it's dark. I see the inscription Products. The store is probably pre-revolutionary, solid. I went in, not a visitor, I think it's great, I went to the counter, the sausage department and did not look at He asked for a sausage, such as Krakow cheese, cheese and something else. A silent scene. The sellers ask, “Have you fallen from the moon?” And they look like a nut. I look at the window - and there are two mountains of fat, melted, pork, and beef. !!!! I said that from Minsk, I still remember the envy in their eyes. They sold sprats in a tomato, and I went to sleep. Then I always took a bunch of food with me to business trips to Russia. Apart from the centers, Moscow and Peter, THERE WAS NOTHING ANYTHING FOR SALE FROM FOOD! WITNESS!
              All republics except the Russian Federation, the Azerbaijan SSR and the BSSR were subsidized! All! And the shield of Ukraine, and Georgia, EVERYTHING!
      2. Nayhas
        Nayhas 8 October 2013 14: 33 New
        +2
        Quote: Sour
        We still need to figure it out - when Russia was robbed more, then or now. Personally, I do not need empty shelves again in the shops of the Russian province where I was born, grew up and now live. I admit (and even know) that in Ukraine during the USSR it was different. But what am I doing?

        Your opponents are comparing present-day Russia with the USSR, and of course partially right, now it’s worse than then. But for some reason they believe that there can be no other way, or the dictates of the CPSU, or the dictates of United Russia. For them, Yeltsin and Co. for some reason are “liberals,” and all after 1991. they call democracy without realizing that nothing really has changed, the new nomenclature repeats its predecessors in many ways, only more cruel. There was no democracy in Russia, if before 1993. there was hope, but the events of 20 years ago put an end to them. The fact that people look to the past is a sign that they do not see the future.
  • Unknown
    Unknown 8 October 2013 13: 23 New
    -8
    Some yelling here: “LET'S RETURN SOCIALISM !!”, but does anyone remember how they reached it? 20 MILLION killed, the people did not have the right to express themselves freely, executions, defeats in wars, hatred from the whole world !!!! IS IT REALLY SMALL? !! fool fool fool
    1. michajlo
      michajlo 8 October 2013 13: 47 New
      +5
      Unknown (2) RU Today, 13:23 _131008 / WTO New
      Some yelling here: “LET'S RETURN SOCIALISM !!”, but does anyone remember how they reached it? 20 MILLION killed the people did not have the right to freely express themselves, executions, defeats in wars, hatred from the whole world !!!! IS IT REALLY SMALL? !! fool fool fool


      Good afternoon, dear "nameless nickname"!

      Let me ask you, “Where are the firewood from?” If you repeat the EXACT and DOCUMENTAL figures of the repressed in the USSR from such a reliable source as “uncut and unwashed Solzhenitsyn,” then I doubt your decency and goals here on the site.
      Is it not that “informer on co-prisoners” in his great work “The Gulag Archipelago”, which in a couple of months with the support of the Propaganda Department of the Central Committee of the CPPS (Yakovlev), became from the yellow manuscripts “A TRUE document and the CONSCIENCE of the Russian people” (after correction by specialists from the CIA and the KGB). And his staggering numbers of the repressed (with 143 million inhabitants in 1940) from the initial 60 MILLION, then regularly decreased to 40 million and then to and to 20 MILLION VICTIMS, after which the “self-styled conscience of the people”, safely moved to another world ...

      If you have other RELIABLE sources of this true figure, Give links and authors.

      According to the documents of the same NKVD / KGB, there were only 1,8 million of all repressed, including criminals ?! On the KGB website, you can find them, if you need me, I will find a link for you, I did not write it down last year.
    2. nov_tech.vrn
      nov_tech.vrn 8 October 2013 14: 33 New
      +8
      the ugly thing apparently does not fit, I won’t say anything about 20 million - it’s on the conscience of your teachers, as they believed, how many died from the destruction of the USSR (not only from weapons, but from all kinds of surrogates, from poverty and hopelessness) and I wasn’t born, I too I won’t count, I won’t count those killed and tortured during the same period as “advanced” Japanese, in Asia, “noble”
      Anglo-Saxons - in colonies around the world, Poles in Ukraine and Belarus, Italians in Africa, “purebred” Germans, first in Germany and then throughout Europe, I hope the Holocaust, don’t you deny? in Tel Aviv this is a crime. sit further in the unknown, picking the cockroaches that you have been pushed into your head.
  • Sour
    Sour 8 October 2013 13: 43 New
    0
    Quote: Nayhas
    If the USSR were alive, then there would be coupons for computers, everyone would queue for the Internet, AvtoVAZ would produce only VAZ 2110, four tank plants would finally flood the country with tanks, on the raid of Vladivostok, the aircraft carrier Ulyanovsk would quietly chase if there was no coastal infrastructure for it, internal troops would regularly conduct counter-terrorist operations in the Baltic states, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, and Nagorno-Karabakh, and at the next CPSU Congress, Secretary General Yanaev would periodically forget words by 2020. provide the whole country with cellular communications ...

    I agree completely, except for one point. The list of WHOs you have given is definitely not complete. For some reason, you didn’t name all the Central Asian republics, and you forgot western Ukraine. In general, there would be so many people serving in the VV that no one would be left for the rest of the armed forces.
    1. Nayhas
      Nayhas 9 October 2013 04: 50 New
      0
      Quote: Sour
      In general, there would be so many people serving in the VV that no one would be left for the rest of the armed forces.

      It is most important...
  • anushin10ru
    anushin10ru 8 October 2013 13: 49 New
    +6
    To the unknown. By 1985, socialism was still under construction. 20 ml killed - trust anti-Soviet historians less. It was impossible to express themselves freely only from anti-Soviet positions. Remember the "witch hunt" in the USA. Any state defends its ideological foundations, if any. Any resident of the USSR, having come to the regional committee, district committee, etc. with a complaint about the power of those holding it, had many chances to be heard. In reality, even under Stalin, the USSR was a more democratic country than the Russian Federation. repression - any system is born in agony, like a person. Look at how capitalism was born in England in the 16-17th century. What are defeats in wars about? Hatred on the part of the whole world - but what about the social camp, Vietnam, Cuba, etc. Do you really believe that everything rested only on bayonets.










    .
    1. Sour
      Sour 8 October 2013 14: 03 New
      +3
      I don’t believe in nonsense about “millions of victims of Stalin’s repressions,” because I know that this is all greatly swollen. But do not substitute one lie for another and tell good tales about the USSR. Any resident of the USSR coming to the regional committee, district committee, etc. with a complaint about the power of those holding it had a lot of chances to be heardIt is now possible to make an appointment anywhere, no more complicated than then. And do not idealize those who sat in the district and regional committees. If anything, Yeltsin, Chernomyrdin and Gaidar left precisely from there, from the "district committees and regional committees", and not from the CIA intelligence schools.
  • Pancreas
    Pancreas 8 October 2013 14: 00 New
    +3
    The article is good. It is necessary to use knowledge, it is necessary to act.
  • vahatak
    vahatak 8 October 2013 14: 10 New
    -3
    after the assassination of Stalin Khrushchev

    I did not read further, because the outcome is predictable.
  • nikcris
    nikcris 8 October 2013 14: 18 New
    0
    If yes, if only
    Yes, mushrooms grew in my mouth,
    And it would not be a mouth
    And the whole garden!
    And it would not be necessary to plow or sow hi

    And if in the case, then having read to the reduction of the working week by Khrushchev from 48 to 40 hours, I realized what a storyteller-non-science fiction writer was. And after all, Google, the lender, has ...
  • anushin10ru
    anushin10ru 8 October 2013 14: 33 New
    +5
    Sour. If a resident of the USSR came with a complaint to local authorities about the injustice that he had committed at his household level from government officials, or to a trade union, then his application was examined in 99 out of 100 cases, and if his claims were fair, measures were most often taken. OF COURSE, IF HE HAD AN ATTEMPTED AT THE HOLY, IDEOLOGY, OR TOO RYANO WOULD CRITICIZE THE EXISTING ORDERS, then under Stalin he would go to camps, under Khrushchev and Brezhnev there would be a lot of problems in society, but the USSR would not be forgotten. Of course, it died in infancy, although the baby was strong and promising.
  • Sour
    Sour 8 October 2013 14: 39 New
    0
    Quote: Nayhas
    The fact that people look to the past is a sign that they do not see the future.

    They do not see the present either. They live in a world of their own fantasies, and are ready to kill anyone who considers fantasies to be fantasies.
  • Sour
    Sour 8 October 2013 14: 43 New
    0
    Quote: anushin10ru
    it was a new type of society, it died in infancy,

    Only for some reason, this "infant" society has recently been increasingly ruled by decrepit old people.
    The USSR has evolved greatly over 70 years, and it cannot be said that it died in the bud.
    1. Yarosvet
      Yarosvet 8 October 2013 15: 09 New
      +1
      Quote: Sour
      Only for some reason, this "infant" society has recently been increasingly ruled by decrepit old people

      Because the principle of the power of the Soviets was not implemented - the executive branch, unlike the original paradigm, remained out of the control of society (the same garbage now)
      1. Egoza
        Egoza 8 October 2013 19: 15 New
        +3
        Quote: Yarosvet
        Because the principle of power of the Soviets was not implemented - the executive branch,

        He was at the very beginning and under I.V. Stalin. Remember the Council of People's Commissars. Actually I.V. Stalin wanted to completely distinguish between party power - ideological education and executive power - the economy. But Khrushchev broke everything and made the CPSU dominant in everything. Including in that in what absolutely did not understand - in economy, in agriculture, etc.
        1. Yarosvet
          Yarosvet 8 October 2013 19: 33 New
          +1
          Quote: Egoza

          That's right - I answered Kisly's question about the reasons for the old people to be in power, and the reason for this was the lack of power of the Soviets in the post-Stalin USSR.
  • anushin10ru
    anushin10ru 8 October 2013 15: 16 New
    +3
    Sour. 70 years, by historical standards, the term is small. Yes, the ruling elite of the USSR degenerated as a result. The reasons for the death of the USSR are not in the advanced age of his last leaders, here the role of Gorbachev’s personality takes place. BUT AND WILL DEVELOP. By 1985, the USSR had no critical problems. Look, socialism in Cuba and the DPRK is still alive, whether it is a bad question or whether the question is different.
  • lpd1
    lpd1 8 October 2013 16: 35 New
    +1
    Empire will be reborn!
  • Altona
    Altona 8 October 2013 16: 43 New
    +4
    The article is generally not new ... I would agree with everything if I knew how the development of high-tech goods and the automotive industry for consumer goods would develop in the USSR, and these segments would grow very much and outgrow banal video twins, as if obsolete productions would collapse .. . Therefore, it is difficult to judge by the standards of the 80s of the last century ... The structure of consumption and the lifestyle in general have changed ... Of course, some kind of smooth integration into the global economy had to be done, it was necessary to develop public corporation and venture for high-tech cases, it was necessary use the great desire of people to earn ... But our "Evr" clothing prefer to chubisteize everything and everyone, and everyone shouts about the inviolability of the results of "privatization" ... By the way, I really like China, for example, in Shanghai, with incomparable with Moscow on a scale (twice as large) transport is cheaper three times, the mass of hotels of different levels, awesome roads and buildings ... And we have capitalism headlong in shit ...