If the USSR survived ...

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If the USSR survived ...In this article I want to try to talk about how the citizens of Russia would live if the USSR was saved.

Most economists recognize that as a result of liberal reforms, the country did not reach the standard of living of the USSR - a very characteristic fact that had previously been carefully camouflaged by democrats and liberals. And what would have happened if the reformers hadn’t (or hadn’t given the people) destroyed the socialist system? ". If it were not for the reforms of the 1987-1991 of the year, the level of GNP in Russia would be more than 1,8 times now.

In present-day Russia, the richest 20% receive almost two-thirds of the national income going to consumption, while by 1987, this share did not exceed 30%.

If so, it turns out that by simply returning to the principles of distribution that existed during the years of Soviet power, one can increase the standard of living of 2% of Russians almost 80 times. In the process of liberal reform of the Russian economy, the share of spending on an apartment has sharply increased. Previously, during the years of Soviet rule, a person received 200 rubles on average and then, after 7 years (on average), he was given a two-room apartment (on average) for free, and the utility payments for such a person did not exceed 10% of his salary, now buy an apartment for 80,% of the population is almost impossible to do, and the share of utility payments in wages has increased to 20-30%, and even more. If we take into account the impossibility of buying apartments, then we can accept that due to the twist of flat money real wages should be reduced by 25-35%.

Almost 30% of the income spent on consumption, provided by rising oil prices, and if so, why not accept that the USSR would receive the same income from oil. If the USSR had not been destroyed and, therefore, the distribution of the consumed share of national income would have remained the same (and it was more or less stable for more than 30 years) and if the price of oil grew at the same pace, then 80% of Russians would live in 4 -6 times (pessimistic and optimistic scenarios, respectively) are better than they are now (without an increase in oil prices, this figure is four.

When the task is to give a forecast of Soviet GDP on 20 years, as if we were in 1985, it is easiest to allow the economy to grow at a constant rate and take the pace that corresponded to the previous decade or two. An econometric base for this is available (although, of course, if you parse the real data, then some particular difficulties may emerge). There is nothing prejudicial about such an extrapolation. The use of projection is justified; in this case, the best conditional estimate of the future (for the point in time 1985) is a linear trend obtained on the basis of information about the previous dynamics of the variable of interest.

Predicting US GDP growth calculated by this method for 1985-2005 based on 1947-1985 data gave a very good result. On 20 years ahead, the model was mistaken for 14% in comparison with reality. So, US GDP growth is not so badly predicted based on such a simple model with a constant growth rate.

WAS THE ECONOMIC CRISIS IN THE USSR IN 1985 YEAR?

Liberals may argue: - "Well, let's say that forecasting based on statistics is possible and even quite acceptable is the use of linear models, but the USSR was special - it was hit by a deep crisis. And if so, the use of linear models to predict the growth of the USSR is unacceptable. " That is, to assert that the USSR was in a state of crisis before 1985 for the year. But is it?

The system in the USSR was stable and for decades provided a very high increase in national income. In 1979-1988 it reached a state of stable dynamic equilibrium — the USSR gave an average of 3-3,5% annual growth in national income. The country cannot develop faster, since the labor reserve has been exhausted, and the working day is limited to 40 hours per week (after the murder of Stalin by Khrushchev, the working week in the USSR was reduced from 48 hours to 40 hours), and the rapid increase in output standards and control of the result Intellectual labor is categorically not taken by the workers themselves. Growth was in spite of the fact that oil prices between 1982 and 1986 over the years have fallen 6,8 times, despite Brezhnev’s “insanity”, Andropov’s rush to bring order, Chernenko’s accession, Gorbachev’s publicity.

More and more countries are buying Soviet aircraft. Space, unified power grid, unified system of railways. Self-sufficiency in culture and tourism (such heights in culture as the USSR has reached, especially in the field of art for children, we will never reach). Even Canada bought Soviet hydro-turbines, with the proviso that this was not written in the press. Soviet education is the best in the world, the number of registered inventions in the USSR exceeded their total number in the rest of the world, and these were truly new technical solutions. Indeed, not all of them were introduced, but this is a huge creative potential. Science in the USSR ranked second in the world, although it had problems of growth.

The economy of the USSR looked good against the background of the developed countries of the West. So, in 1990, the USSR produced per capita 5964 KWh of electricity, the USA - 12659; Great Britain - 5543; Italy - 3765. The gas per capita was produced by 2624 cubic meters, in the USA - 2021, in Great Britain - 871, in Italy - 278. Meat was produced 69 kg per person, in the US - 123, in the UK - 66, in Italy - 64. It can be seen that the standard of living in the USSR practically did not differ from that in the leading countries of Europe, although it was lower than in the USA, Germany and Japan. The level of technological development of the USSR was also comparable to that of the leading countries of the West.

If we compare the average annual per capita income in international dollars (at purchasing power parity) 1988, then it turns out that from 1950, the per capita national income in the US increased from 6430 dollars to 14000 dollars in 1988, while in the USSR it increased 3,9 times - from 1750 dollars to 6750 dollars, which means that the Soviet economy grew 2 times faster than the US. The American directory of Soviet Economic Structure and Performance gives similar ratios of the USSR and the USA. For example, according to this guide, per capita national income in the USSR was 8363 dollars, and in the US - 18180 dollars. And Czechs and Slovaks (and East Germans) lived under socialism much better than Soviet citizens. Do you know why? They received annually 15 million tons of oil from the USSR - for one third of the price on the world market.

So, as a result of the living creativity of the masses, a new type of living arrangement was formed in the USSR, which lay in line with the basic traditions of Russian organizational technologies, adapted to the modern geopolitical conditions of the country. We call such a political-economic system socialism. Its important features are the combination of economic and administrative, tax and business functions in a single economical management structure, so that a significant part of the social product was directly seized by the state without using the classical tax mechanism and was directed to the needs of the country. The distribution of wealth in a socialist society was carried out taking into account feasibility for the country as a whole. Such a system needed centralized planning, which had certain solvable drawbacks due to the difficulty of accounting for all information and because of the difficulty of reconciling the different interests of the center and periphery.

In the Soviet economic system there were several key decisions given by Russia's geopolitical features: elimination of capital outflow from the country through the monopoly of foreign trade, strict financial control and restrictions on exit; economical and recognized by all the mechanism of coordination of interests in society, performed by the CPSU; the rapid elimination of deficiencies and the adjustment of policy by the Soviets and the CPSU with the help of the press and state security organs; availability of a system for restraining the comprador elimination of the elite with the help of state and party organs. There were valuable money in circulation, but they were separated from the production of means of production, which made it possible not to be afraid of financial crises. The peculiarity of the institute of property under socialism was its multi-level character with a wide division of ownership rights to bundles. Socialism solved the problem of justice on both an individual and national level. Even critics of the Soviet economic system recognize that, for all its flaws, “it was a solid and stable system. And one of the properties of a sustainable system is the rejection of alien elements, which is what happened with cost accounting, Kosygin reforms. Their system was emasculated, cut and digested. "(1

The planned economic management system successfully solved the problems of scientific and technological progress, and the planning deficiencies were compensated by the administrative market (or rather, the administrative-market adjustment of the deficiencies of the planned distribution) —the mixed economy made it possible to mitigate, though not without flaws, many of the disadvantages associated with the inadequacy of the equalization distribution system , proclaimed official ideology.

In the 1978-1988, the USSR no longer had any serious conflict with the West, a security agreement was signed. And the mobilization development is almost over.

So, an analysis of the growth trends of natural production indicators shows that there were no signs of a crisis in the Soviet economy. Due to a centralized change in the structure of investments, improvement of production organization, reduction of losses and other methods, the crisis, according to some Russian and Western experts, and a decrease in the average annual increase in national production income could be postponed for another 5-10 years. It turns out that a real crisis (if we accept that it was inevitable, although this is not true) in the Soviet economy would have begun not earlier than 2005-2010.

Here it is necessary to take into account a very important fact, which the critics of the USSR deliberately get along with - after the murder of Stalin, the working week decreased from 48 to 40 hours, that is, the base for economic growth was reduced by 20%. Nevertheless, during the 60-70 years, the USSR maintained almost the same growth rates as under Stalin. The basis of this breakthrough was a sharp increase in spending on science.

According to official data, the national income of the USSR increased from 1950 to 1960 a year in 2,7 times, and from 1960 to 1984 a year to 3,7 times. By the year 2000, if the same tendency of absolutely linear growth of wages and GNP continued, then wages would increase 3 times compared to 1960 year, whereas GNP would increase 4 times, if we assume that investments in the USSR were about 35%, it turns out the ideal work of the economy and financial bodies. All this suggests that the USSR-85 was an absolutely healthy economy. Moreover, even those negative trends that existed were easily stopped due to an increase in spending on innovation activities. For example, the 12 billion rubles (in 200 prices) were allocated to the program for the modernization of the machine-building complex in the 1985-m five-year plan - two times more than in the previous ten years.

According to a well-informed member of the Gorbachev Politburo, E. Ligachev, the measures taken by the government had an effect. In the industry, the growth rate of production in 1986-88. amounted to approximately 4% compared to 3% in the XI five-year period, in agriculture, respectively, 3 and 1%. In the Gorbachev era, it was possible to increase the input of housing from about 300 million square meters. in 1981-1985 to 343 million square meters in 1986-1990 on RSFSR. Over 1986-1988, the average 128 million sq. M. m housing. A significant increase was achieved in the construction of residential buildings, which was not the case during the previous two five-year plans. Western economists unanimously claimed and argued that the Soviet economic system had significant economic reserves in the 1991 year, but the country's leaders did not even try to use them. "Why? - asks Vilkotsky, and he himself answers - “The answer suggests itself only one - the nomenclature needed to destroy the Soviet Union and create a convenient state system on its ruins.”

Many believe that the Soviet economy, that in Stalin, that in Khrushchev, that in the Brezhnev version, could not grow at all - there was no evolutionary mechanism. Only it turned out that moving science and technology, but over time, slower and slower. Meanwhile, a thorough analysis shows that the Soviet economy was just growing due to huge investments in public education.

Reformers of different persuasion, who called to the market (and those who are calling now, just not to the bad, as in today's Russia, but to the good), do not provide for scientific and technical progress. In the present conditions, any market system without the state’s great efforts to invest in innovation and science would inevitably, perhaps after some short-term improvement, lead to a new crisis.

some economists introduce the concept of a crime rate acceptable to the people. This is the optimal ratio for the growth and stable development of the price of measures to combat crime and its damage. When the cost of strengthening the fight against crime exceeds the reduction of damage from crime as a result of additional control measures, further strengthening the fight becomes meaningless.

In 1987, the last year before the reform, in the RSFSR 9,2 thousand murders or attempted murders were committed, 33,8 thousand looting and robberies. Expanded reproduction of crime was not !!! From the data presented in the USSR 1990 statistics collection, it is clear that the role of the shadow economy was minimal. With the total money income of the population in 493,5 billion rubles, in 1988, the blessings worth 502,9 billion rubles were consumed. The excess was less than 2%. Again almost perfect indicator.

Note for comparison that in 2011, 14,3 was registered in thousands of murders and 147,9 in thousands of thefts and robberies. The number of grave and especially grave crimes has been fluctuating at the level of 1,8 million per year for many years (besides, the proportion of those crimes that are recorded and even more disclosed are revealed). The concealment of income and tax evasion became general.

NOT DEFICIENCY, BAD CRIMES

The second typical accusation of the Soviet system was the assertion that it constantly created deficiencies. As an example, 1991 is usually given the year when store shelves are completely empty. In fact, this is a typical manipulation by substitution of the thesis. Before 1985, there were deficiencies, but rarely. "Sausage" electric trains - the result of the creation of a "showcase of socialism" in Moscow. But a lot was done and, in particular, the problem of shortage of meat was successfully solved. For example, in Ivanovo, it was solved due to a sharp increase in the production of duck and duck dumplings. Gradually, by the year 1985 in Ivanovo, the situation began to be resolved in unconventional ways. When they began to introduce coupons for basic products, the workload of trains died away. Everyone knew that half a kilo of butter per month would give us, and 2 kg of meat, and half a kilogram of sausage ... There were fresh and smoked ducks. Pork appeared - better than nothing. Milk has become - heaps. Cooptorgi were opened, and it became possible to buy meat for 5 rubles, but on the market it was almost for the same price and was not translated.

As for the deficits constantly exaggerated by the liberals in the last years of Perestroika, they were artificial. They were specially organized in order to cash in on speculation. A. Kasatkin in the article “Deficit in the USSR” in N5 (454) of the newspaper “Duel” explains how the deficit was artificially made in the USSR. There are other testimonials. So, V.I. Potapov, the first secretary of the Irkutsk Communist Party Regional Committee in the years of Perestroika, testifies that for certain types of food the deficit was created artificially: speculation, theft ... U. Sarsenov from Kazakhstan writes about this - for some services, goods were created artificially deficient, which allowed all sorts of “bugs” »To withdraw from under the floor of the cost of the goods, air ticket, hotel room its margin, its percentage, not taxed, of course, no tax. The elite torpedoed pricing reforms in 1987, when, instead of comprehensively addressing prices and tariffs in the national economy, the Goskomtsen and Gosplan began pushing the idea of ​​revising wholesale prices first, and not to touch retail prices for some time. So, the deficit was before Perestroika, although it was also created artificially, and it did not in any way interfere with the normal functioning of the national economy, since it affected no more than 1% of the goods and services sold. The magnitude of this phenomenon increased dramatically only after the 1987 year.

So, there was no crisis in 1985 in the USSR. It was artificially created by reformers in 1987-1988, which was reflected in the negative increase in national income in 1989 and the subsequent collapse of the economy.

LONG DOES CRISES IN ECONOMICS GO ON?

Well, in general, why in today's Russia does not the crisis go away? Do economic crises last? A study of the development of different countries shows that within a single economic system, the economic decline usually lasts a maximum of 7 years. Crises lasting over 7 years in new stories did not have. As a rule, all economies straighten out very quickly, unless they are completely destroyed. Malaysia and South Korea took 2 of the year, Cuba - 4 of the year. Even the USA after the Great Depression took only 6 years to get out of the crisis. Economic recovery after the war also takes a maximum of 7 years. Even during the transition from one social system to another, as after the bloody Civil War, which claimed millions of lives and led to the complete ruin of the economy, the time for economic recovery did not exceed 7 years. After the Great Patriotic War, the restoration took 5 years with even greater destruction.

We have in today's Russia more than two decades of continuous crisis - the crisis is evidenced by the lack of development of the country (not growth associated with an increase in oil prices, but development), the complete destruction of the innovation infrastructure and, in particular, Soviet science ... All the mechanisms of scientific technical progress. By itself, the duration of the crisis in today's Russia and other former socialist countries speaks of its systemic nature; it proves that the crisis is of a non-economic nature, that it is man-made. The situation is similar to that after the fall of Ancient Rome, when during the long ten Dark Ages Europe could not reach the standard of living that existed in the Roman Empire.

So, there is no reason to believe that a crisis was brewing in the USSR in 1985, and if so, then the use of linear models for forecasting is quite reasonable.

Conscious collapse of the USSR economy

Thus, having come to power, Gorbachev got a stable working state. Yes, there were flaws and they had to be eliminated. But how to eliminate? It is necessary to conduct a differential diagnosis and make a diagnosis. Andropov tried to do this when he declared that we do not know the society in which we live. Gorbachev behaved quite differently. Instead of starting to study society, he began to shy away: let's speed up, let's, but how? Accelerated, but the system is inertial - it extinguished the excitement. Let's debug the economic mechanism, but again the system with its inertia suppressed the initiatives of amateurs. Then they took up the foundations on which the buildings of socialism stood ...

In 1987-1988, decisive mistakes were made (or rather, crimes against the people) —the visiting committees of the regional committees were eliminated. This meant that now foreign contractors would be able to give bribes to responsible Soviet workers in the form of trips to the West and marked the complete elimination of control over the elite.

A valve was opened separating the cash money supply from non-cash. For this, the so-called centers of the “Scientific and Technical Creativity of Youth” were first created, the first gateway for pumping cashless in cash. Under the guise of the development of a youth economy, the plundering of state enterprises was organized. Then came the era of co-operatives, which, like leeches, began to pump non-cash money out of the state. In the first quarter of 1990, banking institutions issued 6 billion rubles from the accounts of cooperatives. in cash, and only 450 thousand rubles were credited to their accounts. The total size of the shadow economy in recent years has reached Perestroika approximately 120-130 billion rubles, or about a fifth of the national income of the USSR. (59) Pumping from “cashless” to “cash” in the USSR was a clear theft, since cashless money practically did not real prices for enterprises (and the individuals who cashed them under the obligations of state-owned enterprises did not respond).

Finally, in 1987, the branch departments of the Central Committee of the CPSU, which exercised Party (and in fact, people's) control over the economy, were liquidated. The economic elite could now do everything they wanted, and it began to rock the country. Some reformers, in particular B. Saltykov, the former Minister of Science in the Yeltsin government, admit that the crisis in the economy of the USSR arose in 1989-1991, and not earlier.

Gorbachev’s statement in the book “The Fourth Power and Four Secretary Generals” in Victor Afanasyev’s book is very characteristic. “At first we made a bet on scientific and technical progress, but the mechanisms for its implementation did not work. Undertook the reform of the economic mechanism, but it was also blocked. Then the idea of ​​political reform appeared ... ”

As we see, the leader had no attempt to deal with the essence of the matter. There was confidence that the country urgently needed not the Constitution, or Sevruzhina with horseradish, but each new failure convinced the group of "reformers" not that they did not understand something and that they had to figure it out, but what was stopping them system to break. It did not happen with a swoop (and there many efforts are required) for scientific and technical progress - let's redo the whole economy! In science and technology, our ideas have diverged from reality - we will deal with the economy, this will definitely come to us, and science and technology will regulate the market. It didn’t work with economic reform - we’ll introduce democracy, the market will be immaculate with it! As they say, there will be no bread - we will eat sturgeon.

Here is just one example. According to Ligachev, a member of the Politburo A.N. At the end of the period of perestroika, Yakovlev sent a note to the General Secretary about the separation of science from the state, the termination of its budget financing, the liquidation of the State Committee on Science and Technology. So can act only an American agent.

WANTED PEOPLE TO REFUSE SOCIALISM?

One of the versions of supporters of the objectivity of the collapse of the USSR is the assumption that the people of the USSR are tired of socialism. As if the economy of the USSR was optimized as a wartime economy and during the 70 years (or 50) of the war - the people were tired. Like, one generation is a lot. And in Eastern Europe, the population of 30 is less tired from communism.

In fact, this assumption has no basis. At the very beginning of perestroika, no one even had any thought that socialism should be destroyed. All thoughts were focused on the improvement of socialism, which without exception was considered by all as the best social order. Everyone wanted to improve socialism.

They did not want to break socialism and most of the leaders of the CPSU. Member of the Political Bureau of the CPSU Central Committee E. Ligachev in a report at a solemn meeting in the Kremlin Palace of Congresses on the 69 anniversary of the Great October Socialist Revolution 6 in November 1986, said: “Of course, this is not about changing the essence of our social system. On the contrary, this process is aimed at strengthening and developing the fundamental socialist principles, at eliminating everything that is incompatible with them, at creating conditions for the effective use of the enormous potential of socialism ... All the tools of restructuring, all our experience, all our will, focus on reliably to ensure a new, steady rise in the economy and the welfare of the people. ”

Many believe that in any case they would have had to abandon the most hateful (in the then mass representation) traits of the Soviet economy. But, as it turned out, after two decades of reforms, these so-called "hateful" features are the price of other good features that far outweigh the "hateful ones."

To conclude this section, allow me to quote one author from the Czech Republic, already fed up with capitalism. “Today there is a lot of toilet paper in the shops ... But, on the other hand, resolve the question, why do I need toilet paper, if there is nothing to eat? You know, I'm 6 years out of work, six years old, my friend. Sorry for the sharpness of the tone, but I prefer the queues for toilet paper to the queues in front of the labor exchange. ”

So, socialism was destroyed not by objective economic factors, but by the hands of reformers. Consciously or not, this should be established by the competent authorities. The population, neither in the USSR nor in the socialist countries of Eastern Europe, with the possible exception of Poland, did not want to abandon the gains of socialism. The cause of the economic catastrophe is the penetration of the ideology of liberalism and reform. And to destroy the USSR helped international economic agencies.

Here is the opinion of the Nobel Prize winner Stiglitz. (68) “In the future, Russia's economic indicators were impressive, but its gross domestic product is still almost 30% lower than it was in 1990 year. With growth rates around 4% per year, it will take another ten years for the Russian economy to reach the level it was at the time of the collapse of communism. ”

WERED sober voices?

Liberals can declare that it’s good, they say, to wave their fists after a fight. Say, in those years, all economists, as one, recognized the goodness of the market for the USSR. But is it? Did all learned economists support the direction of the restructuring of the Soviet economy, elected by Gorbachev and the then young reformers? It turns out that not all.

For example, Academician Yaremenko categorically objected to the economic policy leading to the destruction of a significant part of the existing production potential, the “technological core” of the national economy, reasonably showing the futility of the raw materials orientation of the domestic economy, inexorably arising from the nature and content of 90-s production , science, social sphere. (69)

Yu.V. Yaremenko warned that the production and technological structure of the national economy is not able to adequately respond to the governing "macroeconomic" impacts, carried out in accordance with the traditional canons of market regulation. According to his views, the role and functions of the state in the economy should not only not weaken, but even strengthen.

PRODUCTION FALL

The efforts of the reformers were not in vain. Here is an interesting fact. In the 1922, the USSR was formed, which accounted for only 1% of global industry, and after 50 years - in 1972 - 20% of the total world industrial production. Currently, the share of Russia in the global industry does not exceed 1,5%. We should cite the authoritative opinion of I. Nikolaev, who convincingly showed that the GNP that the State Statistics Committee expects has little to do with reality. He analyzed investment and physical production indicators and gave an estimate of GNP in 42% of the Soviet for 2003 a year. Since then, the GNP has grown 1,3 times to a level of about 60% of the Soviet. The reformers, of course, count more, but still, even they recognize that the level of production that existed in the RSFSR has not been reached.

So, after all of this I make the final conclusion: the linearity of the prediction is applicable for the USSR 1985 of the year.

HOW TO HAVE PLAYED US

While I was concerned about the standard of living on average. Now you need to go to the details of income distribution among the population. Social inequality can be estimated by comparing the incomes of the poorest, lower 10% of the population with the incomes of the richest, the upper 10%. This ratio is called the decile coefficient. (91) The income of the bulk of the population is often largely determined not just by the level of GNP, but by the decile coefficient. In Sierra Leone, one of the poorest countries in the world, the bottom 10 percent of the population gets the entire 0,5% of national income consumed. While the top 10 percent get 43,6%. In rich Switzerland, the lower 10% already receive 2,9%, and the upper 10% - only 28,6%.

Now in official calculations, the decile coefficient in Russia is equal to 16 (for example, in 2004, the ratio of incomes to 10% of the richest and 10% of the poorest Russians reached 15,2-fold size (92)) and the quintile coefficient (the ratio of the lowest wage among 20% The most paid workers to the highest wages among 20% of the lowest paid workers (93) are equal to 89. By this indicator, which measures the social stratification of the population, Russia by 2002 was overtaken not only by all developed countries - the United States (15,9), the United Kingdom (XN UMX), Greece (13,8), France (10,0), Germany (9,1), Spain (9,0), Japan (9,0), but also a number of developing and postsocialist countries: Dominican Republic (4,5), Philippines (17,7), Thailand ( 16,5), Tunisia (13,4), Turkey (13,4), Poland (13,3), Hungary (9,3), Indonesia (8,9), Pakistan (7,8). (7,6)

But the official data are clearly underestimated. For example, in an article close to the Kremlin of Rimashevskaya, a decile coefficient equal to 14 is given. According to the CIA, US intelligence, which I somehow trust more than through mendacious (see (97)) data of the Russian statistics, in 1998, the decile coefficient in Russia was 22,7 (98) -22,8. (99) B 2000, according to the international agency that calculates the human development index, (100) the decile coefficient in Russia was equal to 20,3.

But that is not all. A group of experts from the World Bank, the Institute of Sociology of the Russian Academy of Sciences and the University of North Carolina (USA), which conducts long-term monitoring of the budget of 4's thousands of households (large research project “Russia longitudinal monitoring monitoring”), gives the decile coefficient for 1996 - 36,3! Domestic economists have a similar opinion. Thus, the Institute of Public Examination, as well as the most authoritative sociologists today argue that the decile coefficient in Russia reaches 40.

I tend to trust American and independent Russian scientists more than official “democratic” statistics. And it is quite reasonable. For example, such facts indicate an ever increasing increase in the difference in the incomes of Russians.

HOW TO ASSESS DIFFERENTIATION OF INCOME?

So, the incomes of Russians differ tenfold, but what decile and quintile coefficient should be chosen for calculations? The scatter obtained by different authors of indicators is too large. As in the case of the USSR, I preferred the figures provided by international agencies, in particular the CIA.

DIFFERENTIATION OF INCOME IN THE USSR

The next question, how to assess the differentiation of income in the USSR? The level of income differentiation under Stalin was great. Then the apartments were built very little and did not give apartments. Apartments were given mainly to specialists. According to the directives of the 20th Congress, one of the party’s goals was to “reduce the difference in the level of wages of low-paid and highly paid workers, and increase the wages of low- and middle-paid workers and employees”. At about the same time commercial stores were liquidated. In 1968, the decile coefficient went down to a record low of 2.7, it rose to 1990 by 3.3. (114) In fact, the Soviet state set a progressive tax on the sale of luxury goods at the expense of uneven prices for essential goods and luxury goods, and It means a tax on the rich.

According to official Goskomstat data, the decile coefficient in the USSR in 1990 was 4,4. Even three years after the start of reforms, in 1991, the decile coefficient was equal to 4,5, whereas in the USA it was 5,6. But by 1994 in Russia, he jumped to 15,1. According to RAS scientists, who took into account the hidden incomes of the rich, the actual decile coefficient in Russia in 1996 was 23. (115)

Therefore, for the 1985 of the year, I will take the decile coefficient equal to 3,2. (116) The 4 table shows the distribution of income during Soviet times. The income distribution was calculated by me based on the Lorenz curves. (117)

Now take the first 8 groups and compare with the latest 2. That is, 80% of the population and 20% of the richest. In today's Russia, 80% of the population accounts for 34,1% of income. The richest 20% get 65,9% consumed by GNP of Russia. In the USSR, the situation was different. 80% of the population received 63,9% of income, while the richest 20% received only 36,1%. In other words, if we establish the decile and quintile coefficients that were in the USSR, then the revenues of 80% of the population automatically (without any change in the level of production) will increase 1,8 times. So, in and of itself, a return to the principles of social policy that existed in the USSR makes it possible to improve the lives of the overwhelming majority of Russians in 1,8.

ADDITIONAL FACTORS

And here is another important parameter - the ratio of prices for essential products and luxury products. Bread has risen in price relative to the average car (VAZ-2105) about 5 times, and travel by metro to 8 times. The prices of absolutely essential goods soared up even more - relatively cheap domestic cigarettes and the most necessary medicines. In the USSR, on the contrary, low prices for the most necessary products eased the situation of people with low incomes, almost equalizing them on the main indicators of lifestyle with well-to-do people. (118) If we take into account that the average wage does not take into account the consumption basket, the poorest segments of the population - due to the relative rise in price of essential products, they lowered their standard of living even more. I would attribute at least 10% to this factor (coefficient 1,1).

Democrats brought the price for one square meter to 32 thousand rubles, and in Moscow - about two hundred thousand rubles, and after that they lie about Soviet power without a twinge of conscience! (119) Now almost half of Russians (43%) spend on rent and utilities ( electricity, gas, water, telephone) from a quarter to half of the total income of their families. 17% spend on it from half to three quarters of earnings. Less than a third of Russians give a communal bill up to 25% of their money.

So, because of the rise in housing prices, the rent on homeowners, invisible in the USSR, became visible and for its maintenance more than 30% of the money supply is required. Now the cost of utilities is often 30% of revenues. If we take into account the payment for apartments when they are purchased, then the share of money spent on the service of payment for accommodation will be 50%, but I will accept this share as 30%. In other words, from the general level of consumption in present-day Russia, about 30% falls on scrolling through the market for housing prices. If this is the case, then it should be recognized that the level of average wages in today's Russia should be reduced by 1,3 times.

These two factors determining the standard of living of the majority of the population (introducing property rents, mainly real estate, and rising oil prices into the money turnover), gave an increase for even the absolutely stagnant USSR 1,6 times, and taking into account the 1,1 coefficient even 1,75.

And finally, the last. Recall that about 30% of the current consumption growth in Russia is associated with rising oil prices. It is no secret that the main factor ensuring the growth of the Russian economy is not any effort of the people on innovations or technical development, but simply an increase in the price of oil and gas in international markets. During Soviet times, oil prices fell. Now is growing rapidly. There is no reason to believe that if the USSR collapsed, the price of oil would not rise. If the USSR had remained intact, then oil prices would have increased anyway. This is the law of a capitalist economy - a rise in prices for a product that is lacking. If the increase in oil prices were the same, they would give an additional increase in GDP by 30%. That is why I am introducing an amendment to this factor in the average salary. Salary in the USSR should be increased 1,3 times.

PUBLIC CONSUMPTION FUNDS

But that's not all. In my calculations, I did not take into account social consumption funds. They constituted a significant part of the national income consumed. For example, in 1988, only payments from public consumption funds accounted for almost 36% of the population’s cash income. Under socialism, the people got what they really needed, education, security, health, apartments ... and now he buys what he is being driven into advertising.

The destruction of city and district Soviets, the practical elimination of self-government, the dictatorship and the autocracy of the “executive branch” had the most dramatic effect on the appearance of urban areas, especially on the outskirts, and the way of life in them. On the site of working and sleeping areas, urban ghettos are formed, and parks and recreation areas are diverted to “elite development” zones, which are trying to become zones of prosperous capitalism among the ruined urban environment.

HOW WE WORK BEFORE AND HOW NOW?

Well, what about the intensity of the work? One graduate student went to Switzerland. He came for the holidays and said: "I knew that I would have to work hard, but in order to have so much ...". What am I for? To the fact that the late Brezhnev years were not a war at all, but a complete relaxation. All worked much less than many spinning in today's Russia. This is evidenced by at least a sharp reduction in reading literature. “Once,” as another graduate student in America told me. “There is no time to read, it’s necessary to plow.”

There was a lot of information about how they worked in the USSR and in the West. I remember one story. Our Hero of Sotstrud from Ivanov, the foremost textile industry, V. Golubev, gave 5 a multiple production rate and I myself saw how she had to fly between the machines. She went to Belgium. She was taken to a weaving mill, and she saw that there, on the same Belgian machines, she worked like a 80% shift.

S.G. Kara Murza writes: “I once argued with a friend, the captain of a Spanish fishing trawler. He says: “You violated Lenin’s law on labor productivity. When we passed by the Soviet ship, our fishermen looked with hatred: the Russians, free from the watch, were sunbathing, playing chess on the deck. And we on the same vessel had half the staff, and worked on 16 hours per day. From each flight, I drove one or two under protection — I went crazy. ” I ask: “So what's so good about it? After all, in the port you had the same number of unemployed who have killed themselves with drugs. Why such a performance? “But Lenin said so,” and there were no more fair arguments. And unfair (like benefits for the owners), he himself did not want to use. He thought about this for a year, and then admitted that the Soviet fishermen had better, and in this case socialism does not need a performance criterion. ”Now Russia has surpassed Spain in this regard.

Further. Visiting Ivanovo, I often ask my friends about how they spin. It turns out that now most of them work in two or even three jobs. There is almost no time for rest. Children are abandoned. And the intensification of labor is intensifying. For example, a surcharge has recently been introduced for district doctors, but President Putin forgot to extend the effect of the allowance to leave and now district doctors have stopped taking holidays. But in the years of Soviet power, doctors and teachers had the longest vacation among workers. What do I want to say? The fact that the so-called average salary in today's Russia includes a sharp intensification of labor, which means that this factor should also be taken into account when assessing the standard of living. It turns out an interesting phenomenon - it seems that labor productivity in the USSR was less than in the West, they worked less, but you should, and Tanks there was enough money and lived 1,4-1,7 times better than now.

FORECAST GROWTH FOR A DEATH COUNTRY

After all these calculations, I was faced with a new question: what is the basic growth rate to take to forecast salary growth in the USSR after 1985? Until 1987, the country grew at an average of 3,5%. This is evidenced by the data of independent calculations by economists of reformers, and more precisely the teams of Yavlinsky, who are hard to blame for being addicted to socialism. This is also indicated by the data from the growth check of natural indicators, which demonstrates that the growth in the USSR in recent years before the beginning of the 1989 crisis was about 3% per year. And most importantly, over the years with a rate of about 3% electricity consumption has grown, and this is an integral indicator. The increase in electricity consumption from 1980 to 1988 year (8 years) was 32%, if there was an increase in 3%, then the increase would be 34%. Considering that gas consumption grew at even higher rates, the forecast that these stable growth rates within 3-3,5% per year would continue seemed very high.

5 table. Natural indicators of production and living standards in the USSR ("National Economy of the USSR in 1990, the Statistical Yearbook. M. 1991. Finance and Statistics") (127)

Natural indicators Years 1980 1985 1988

Sending passengers by all modes of transport (million people) 69124 75917 82445

Including aviation (104) 113 125

Machines for making org. fertilizer (thousand pieces) 47,9 56,3 70,7

Machining centers (thousand pcs.) 0,7 2,5 3,7

Rotary and mouth.-conv. lines (pieces) - 860 1558

Electricity (billion kWh) 94 1544 1705

Including at nuclear power stations 72,9 167 216

Trolley buses (pieces) 2015 2467 2545

Cargo. cars (thous. pcs.) 787 823 862

Min fertilizers (million tons) 24,8 33,2 37,1

Paintwork materials (million tons) 2883 3315 3650

Cement (kt) 5792 79089 84030

Beef and veal (thousand tons) 4392 4957 5848

Poultry Meat (kt) 1224 1744 2137

Milk (recalculated in million tons) 25,5 29,8 33,5

Canned food (million standard cans) 15270 17993 21109

Meat per capita (kg. In brackets in auxiliary household) 34,4 (4,7) 39 (5,5) 44,9 (5,6)

Average month salary in state farms (rub.) 149,7 184,4 212,4

The length of the trolleybus routes (km) 7009,8 8147,1 8803,2

Number of 20167 27185 33281 telephones

Growth GNP 100 120 134

In addition, gas consumption increased, the public transportation system, consumer services improved. These are all the factors that created the increase in energy supply.

Therefore, I had the right to assume that the RSFSR would develop steadily and would give 3-3,5% growth per year, as it was on average in previous years. But I deliberately did not take 3% growth, which gave the RSFSR during 1978-1987 years, a decade of stable development - not to tease geese - I took the forecast in 2,5% growth, which, as it turned out, was minimal, by statistical modeling of growth trends .

After reviewing all these issues, taking figures from internationally available sources on the Internet, showing the growth rate of GNP in Russia, I made calculations and it turned out that in 2005, Russia’s GNP was 237% of the 1965 year, while in the 1991, the RSFSR had The corresponding figure in 264,7%. If we take the peak of the achievements of the RSFSR in the Soviet time 1989 year, then that year the GNP amounted to 288,5% from the level of 1965 year. So, international statistics show that today's Russia has not yet reached the highest level that Soviet Russia had (82% of the 1989 level of the year). This fact is reflected in such an indicator of international statistics as the Human Development Index (100), which in Russia has not recovered within the framework of the Soviet era level.

1990 g. - 0.817

1995 g. - 0.770

2003 g. - 0.795

What happened? It turned out that if there were no Perestroika and subsequent reforms, the GNP in Russia would be at the level of 428,3% of the level of 1965 of the year. At the end of the year, 2005, this figure was only 237%. In other words, even if we take deliberately underestimated predicted results of GDP growth, Soviet Russia would have, without any straining, a level of economy in 1,8, and therefore a standard of living, than now. Remember this figure. If we take the increase in 3,5%, then by the year 2005 the RSFSR would have a GNP in 500,3% of the level 1965 of the year. In other words, we would live 2,1 twice as good as it is now. Finally, take the most pessimistic forecast - the annual increase in 1,5%. Then you would live in 1,54 times better than now.

I note that the consequences of the degradation of science would gradually manifest themselves without sharp jumps in the decline in GDP growth from 3,5% to 1% by the end of the period. What on average would give the same 2%, or even higher. Tendencies to deterioration would not be detected, since the effect of degradation of science usually manifests itself after 10 or more years. Given the very high level of higher education in the USSR, the system would have been viable for at least 15 years, even if everything was left as it was.

If we take into account the opinion of the “democrats” that there were good reasons to assume that trends in the USSR economy changed significantly during the 75-85 of the year, then they are reflected in the “pessimistic scenario” with 0% growth. There is no reason to believe that the Soviet economy would show a much lower growth rate, that is, it would fall in 2 times, without starting a restructuring. In the end, the Great Depression was not least due to government action. It could either be avoided or the consequences substantially reduced. And the consequences of this depression were significantly lower than the effects of Perestroika. In any economy after a crisis, there are usually higher growth rates. Even after the Civil War in Russia, the economy was restored to 10 in 1928 years to the year. Moreover, industrialization, the GOERLO plan, the increase in the financing of science have already begun. In the current Russian economy there is no high growth rate of the economy itself. And there is no growth associated with high oil prices. That is, the economy continues to degrade. No amount of depreciation required, no investment ...

SO MUCH AS BETTER WE WOULD LIVE?

Now I will try to calculate what would have happened if Gorbachev had not come. In my calculations, I will define an optimistic and pessimistic scenario and then compare how we would live in the first and second cases.

To begin with, the average salary is now 157 rubles, and the pension is 62 rubles. In the USSR, 1985, the average salary was 200 rubles, and the pension was 132 rubles. If we accept that pensioners make up 10% of the adult population, then the average per capita income in Russia will be 148,3 rubles, and in the USSR - 1985 - 192,2 rubles. If we take into account the decile and quintile coefficients, then 80% of the population in Russia - 2012 have an average income of 50,6 rubles, and in the USSR - 1985 - 123,5 rubles. If the Soviet salary was compensated for the increase in oil prices (1,3 ratio), then it would be 2012 rubles in the USSR - 179,8. If we take into account that 30% of the average salary of Russians now goes to the maintenance of housing issues, then the non-apartment part, corresponding to the total in the USSR, will be 38,98 rubles.

So far we have not taken into account the increase in GNP in the USSR. But even in this case, 80% of the population in the USSR-2012 would live better than in Russia - 2012 in 4,2 times. If we take the linear trend of growth of the average salary in the USSR - 1985 and accept that this trend will not change, then the average income in the USSR-2012 would be 256,2 rubles, which is 5 times higher than the corrected income in Russia-2012.

In other words, it turns out that if the USSR would not be broken now, then 80% of the Russian population would live 5 times better than they are now. Well, what would have happened if the most pessimistic forecast had come true (annual increase in 0%). Then you would live better 4 times. Agree - not bad either. Imagine, the salary in 4 would be higher than the current one, and this at current prices and without taking into account additional factors.

. “Changes in the level and quality of life of the population have been transformed into acute social and economic problems that had equally acute demographic consequences. Among them:

• catastrophic decline in income and material security of the main part of the population;

• a high proportion of the poor with an extremely poor definition of poverty level;

• unprecedented polarization of living conditions;

• significant unemployment;

• degradation of social security and the actual destruction of the social sphere, including housing and communal services.

“Shock therapy” led to a sharp drop in the monetary incomes of the population, and hopes for their recovery in the coming years are low.

It can be said that now there are two Russia who live in different dimensions, poorly understand each other, have different orientations and preferences, their own demand and the market for supply of goods and services

CONCLUSION

So, the majority of Russians should realize that, without hindering the destruction of the USSR by their passivity, they have done a lot of stupidity. Under the USSR, they would live many, many, many better than they do now. And this is not a propaganda slogan. Quite a few unbiased Western scholars hold the same opinion. So, the authors of the Journal of Cold War Studies, which is published in Harvard (articles on economics, but not on politics, there are reasonable), do not hesitate to admit that, according to their calculations, it turns out that in some areas of the USSR it has reached significant success (but do not select indicators in such a way as to create the impression that the USSR was a paradise on earth).

If someone says that there is no alternative history, then I will answer what happens. For the Democrats. After all, it was they who dragged out Mendeleev’s forecast about what the population of Russia should have been in the 20 century. This prediction was also made by simple linear extrapolation. However, the real population of Russia in the 20 century turned out to be much less numerical. The difference was declared by the Democrats as victims of the Bolshevik regime. This is where the numbers in 60 of millions of victims originate. Why they can, but I can not?
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  1. +4
    8 October 2013 07: 50
    If grandmother had ..., then she would be a grandfather.
    1. +1
      8 October 2013 07: 55
      The article is a long article from a series of fantastic prose. It is a pity to spend time on how it would be. There are enough problems in what actually exists.
      1. eplewke
        +4
        8 October 2013 09: 51
        They destroyed the Soviet empire, we will build or better say we will revive the Russian Empire. There are enough problems of course, but we are able to build ... Ideology is not enough ... Something needs to be lifted by our Russian Vanka, otherwise he will lay it back on the side of the stove until it is shaken ...
        1. +3
          8 October 2013 17: 08
          Roly on the stove, because there is nowhere to work, the enterprises were destroyed, but there were no new ones, two professions remained in the country: taxi drivers and traders ... I recently heard in Chelyabinsk a new metallurgical workshop was opened, as many as three hundred (300) jobs ... cool!
          1. +2
            9 October 2013 08: 56
            Yeah. That's why we are looking for people for half a year. Come alone ... ahem, not very suitable people.
      2. smersh70
        +4
        8 October 2013 10: 59
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Article long from a series of fantastic prose



        the article is good, but the conclusions are not good ..... wassat
        1. -18
          8 October 2013 13: 17
          Quote: smersh70
          the article is good, but the conclusions are not good ..... wassat


          Necrophilia is not an article. We should already dig this corpse and draw conclusions.
          1. +7
            8 October 2013 17: 10
            necrophilia is the current economy in the country ...
          2. +1
            19 July 2017 12: 32
            Well, well ... Russia will become a corpse, and even dismembered, if we don't recall. And the article is correct, even very kind to reforms and reformers.
      3. 0
        8 October 2013 11: 22
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        It’s a pity to spend time on how it would be.

        Shit, Sanya! Avon you "attached" lovers of pseudoscientific fiction! Gentlemen, I just have to stand up for the namesake!
        History does not tolerate the subjunctive mood and it is not worth spending time thinking about "how" and "what would be." Sausage, meat, milk ... - bullshit! The eternal search for answers to the questions "Who is to blame?" and "What to do?" My answer is - you need to work, and not be distracted by sprinkling ashes on your head and vulgar lamentations about the possible, I emphasize! - possible greatness.
        1. Yarosvet
          +16
          8 October 2013 13: 19
          Quote: IRBIS
          do not spend time thinking about "how" and "what would be"
          In thought or in comparison? At the moment, the Union is a guide, and inaccessible.
          The second aspect of this article is the counterargument of the sweeping discredit of the USSR, carried out through unproven statements about its supposedly negative sides (by the way - why pour slop on a disappeared country?)

          need to work
          It turns out?
          1. +5
            8 October 2013 14: 10
            Quote: Yarosvet
            In thought or in comparison?

            In thought. They are counterproductive because they are absurd in nature. But dreaming is not bad ...
            Quote: Yarosvet
            At the moment, the Union is a guide, and inaccessible.

            Landmark? Is an? For whom? Or for what? I lived at that time and I am proud of it, but there were also flaws above the roof. And there were enough excesses in all aspects of life. You should not forget this either.
            Quote: Yarosvet
            It turns out?

            It turns out! After leaving the Armed Forces, he started from the very beginning of his civilian career, from the “bottom”. Now - a separate office. And I have even more than a military pensioner of the times of the USSR, believe me.
            1. Yarosvet
              +8
              8 October 2013 14: 40
              Quote: IRBIS
              In thought. They are counterproductive because they are essentially absurd
              That is, you allow yourself to analyze, draw conclusions and assess actions, events and articles, but for others it is counterproductive and absurd, for others - "do not think - believe, and you will be happy" - so it turns out? laughing

              Landmark? Is an? For whom? Or for what?
              For the 2 / 3 population of the Russian Federation living, if we compare the purchasing power of the USSR ruble and the Russian ruble, it is worse than in the Union by 4.5-5 times.
              For 2/3 of the population of the Russian Federation who are in accordance with the norms of the International Labor Organization below the poverty line.
              For the "working beggars".

              but the flaws there were also higher than the roof. And there were enough excesses in all aspects of life
              And who forgets this?
              On the contrary, it is you who forget that before drawing conclusions about the social system based on the existing excesses and shortcomings, you need to understand the causes of these excesses and shortcomings.

              It turns out! After leaving the Armed Forces, he started from the very beginning of his civilian career, from the “bottom”. Now - a separate office. And I have even more than a military pensioner of the times of the USSR, believe me.
              I believe - you succeeded, I am happy for you. And what will we do with the rest - with 2/3 of which somehow it doesn’t work out?
              1. -2
                8 October 2013 16: 01
                Quote: Yarosvet
                That is, you allow yourself to analyze, draw conclusions and evaluate actions, events and articles, but for others it’s counterproductive and absurd,

                To analyze past experience and draw conclusions is one thing, to conduct idle reasoning from the category of "now if it would have happened" is quite another.
                Quote: Yarosvet
                For the 2 / 3 population of the Russian Federation living, if we compare the purchasing power of the USSR ruble and the Russian ruble, it is worse than in the Union by 4.5-5 times.

                Let us then compare with 1913 year, the same landmark in the Russian Empire.
                Quote: Yarosvet
                it is necessary to understand the causes of these excesses and shortcomings.

                Reasons - the very system of obtaining and distribution of benefits. Under socialism, it is utopian and far from the laws of economics.
                1. Yarosvet
                  +2
                  8 October 2013 16: 24
                  Quote: IRBIS
                  To analyze past experience and draw conclusions is one thing, to conduct idle reasoning from the category of "now if it would have happened" is quite another
                  Leisurely reasoning? Or maybe the author tried to understand and convey to others - what could be, and did it quite reasonably (though not indisputably) and with a very obvious purpose.

                  Let's compare then with 1913, the same landmark in the Russian Empire
                  What to compare - the purchasing power of the ruble, or the purchasing power And the availability of this ruble for the uneducated peasantry, which makes up 80% of the population and has an average life expectancy of 30 years?

                  Reasons - the very system of obtaining and distribution of benefits. Under socialism, it is utopian and far from the laws of economics.
                  Verbally.

                  What is utopianism, what laws are ignored?
                  1. 0
                    8 October 2013 17: 17
                    Quote: Yarosvet
                    Verbally.

                    What is utopianism, what laws are ignored?

                    The collapse of the socialist system is unfounded? The lecture on economics will not fit on the site. We were not ruined, we ate ourselves, I don't even put quotation marks, we ate in the full sense of the word. External factors only accelerated events and exacerbated the consequences. Simplified: a system in which incomes and benefits are averaged, which are also evenly distributed "freezes", ceases to develop. There is no incentive to develop. After all, the plan is done by everyone, money and benefits for its implementation are divided among everyone. Only here the measure of labor is different for everyone. Well, people don't want to work, they don't want to. Most of the achievements in practice turned out to be "exaggerated", clearly exaggerated.
                    You can argue about this for a long time, but there is a fact - the people who lived under socialism and for whom you worry so much, at the first opportunity, almost with shouts of joy threw themselves into the arms of the damned bourgeois.
                    And the year 1917 was repeated, just the opposite.
                    And, attention, the question is: WHO is to blame for this? Americans or those who snickering did not defend a socialist society with its values?
                    1. Yarosvet
                      +3
                      8 October 2013 17: 49
                      Quote: IRBIS
                      The collapse of the socialist system - is it unfounded?
                      This is a fait accompli, but again you forget about the need to consider the reasons.

                      we ate ourselves ... External factors only accelerated events and exacerbated the consequences
                      True, but ask yourself, what must one be in order to allow this? The owner of a personal plot or business will drive himself to zero, if there are not any significant external factors contributing to this?
                      And if there are shoals where they cannot be in principle, if competent trained specialists of these shoals do not see point-blank and do not correct them - is it a random self-eating, or something else, and something purposeful?

                      a system in which incomes and benefits are averaged, which are also evenly distributed "freezes", stops developing
                      Is the difference between the minimum and maximum bid 12 times - is it equalization?

                      After all, everyone does the plan, money and benefits for its implementation are divided into all
                      But in accordance with the calculated labor costs in a particular profession.

                      Most of the achievements in practice turned out to be "exaggerated", clearly exaggerated
                      What purpose is the result. And who was our goal-setting?

                      You can argue about this for a long time, but there is a fact - the people who lived under socialism and for whom you worry so much, at the first opportunity, almost with shouts of joy threw themselves into the arms of the damned bourgeois
                      It’s true: as I wrote on this thread, the orange scenario was repeated that could not take place if at least 50% of the population doesn’t support it — and who created an advertisement for the Western way of life showing only its positive side, who built the production system of consumer goods contrary with the real needs of the population?
                      These guys were pros - they made no stupid mistakes.

                      As a result, we got -
                      1917th, just the opposite
                      - although the proposed changes should have allowed us to take the best from the West, while preserving the best that we had.
                      1. +2
                        8 October 2013 18: 23
                        Quote: Yarosvet
                        It’s true: as I wrote on this thread, the orange scenario was repeated that could not take place if at least 50% of the population doesn’t support it — and who created an advertisement for the Western way of life showing only its positive side, who built the production system of consumer goods contrary with the real needs of the population?

                        What is the "orange" revolution, what are you talking about?
                        The people, at one time, hated Andropov for trying to make him work. Checking queues in stores, cinemas, yes, it can be overkill. Only then, even then, everyone understood the distribution system too "well" and no one really bothered. The main thing is the number "8" in the report card.
                        Let us recall how enthusiastically conveyed to each other the statements of Gorbachev, and then Yeltsin. I quarreled with my father when I called EBN in those years a drunk, I always had a fight (we are still surprised at the civil war). The vast majority of people were delighted with them. Who prevented the people from defending the gains of socialism? Nobody interfered, just everyone was up to the lantern. Awareness of the lost did not come immediately either, but only when it turned out that there were no free cakes.
                        The reasons for the collapse of socialism are its failure. Beautiful, but as it turned out, a fairy tale. The changes were forty years late; Beria had a pretty decent reform program. Only this would be another socialism.
                      2. Yarosvet
                        +1
                        8 October 2013 18: 50
                        Quote: IRBIS
                        What is the "orange" revolution, what are you talking about?
                        And in your opinion, the Orange Revolution is Bolotnaya Square? laughing

                        The people, at one time, hated Andropov for trying to make him work
                        Did he try? In general, it’s somewhat strange for his level to try to do this by methods that predictably increase irritation by the system — no less strange is the series of deaths of politicians potentially capable of leading the Union that happened before he came to power.

                        Let's recall how enthusiastically conveyed to each other the statements of Gorbachev
                        Which Andropov pushed into power (by the way I don’t remember the delight - just banter).

                        The vast majority of people were delighted with them.
                        From EBNya really was - at first.

                        Who prevented the people from defending the gains of socialism?
                        There was no question of protecting the gains of socialism, since in the RSFSR, which replaced the USSR, no one was going to refuse them - all the difference that was discussed was the resolution of private property (not privatization by a narrow group), the resolution of entrepreneurship, and in the self-determination of the republics.
                        All the currently existing "achievements" of the capsystem were not expected - they appeared after 93 and directly contradict even the current Constitution.

                        The reasons for the collapse of socialism are its failure.
                        Again 25 laughing

                        What is its inconsistency - how, with the exception of the emergency situation on the means of production and relation to social obligations, does the capsystem differ from the social system?
            2. 0
              19 July 2017 12: 35
              No need to judge by their own, private achievements or failures. We need to cover the problems of the country and the people wider. Then the truth of the article will come out.
        2. +2
          8 October 2013 13: 33
          IRBIS (1) Today, 11: 22 ↑
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          It’s a pity to spend time on how it would be.

          Shit, Sanya! Avon you "attached" lovers of pseudoscientific fiction! Gentlemen, I just have to stand up for the namesake!
          History does not tolerate the subjunctive mood and it is not worth spending time thinking about "how" and "what would be." Sausage, meat, milk ... - bullshit! Eternal search for answers to the questions "Who is to blame?" and "What to do?" I will answer - you need to workand not be distracted by sprinkling ash on your head and vulgar moans about the possible, I emphasize! - possible greatness.


          Good afternoon, Alexander!
          Yes, you are right in the fact that you have to work and not grind with your tongue. good

          But maybe before how to build something new or again obediently go "for a blind guide", is it worth it to stop and think about it all the same, why did “our invincible Union” collapse so easily ?, so that the true instigators and performers of the “collapse of the Union-1” are still hiding before us FULLY?

          If you think that over the past 30 from the beginning of “perestroika ...” you all know, understand and learn how to get around the traps, smile then I will no longer call you to comprehend and double-check all these "Beautiful and impersonal official versions of the collapse of the USSR", by the way prepared well ahead of time that
          - “they say the Union was killed by a low oil price”, what
          - “Gorbachev tried as best he could in acceleration and perestroika, but he did not have enough for another 4 months and 24 billion dollars” what
          - and other tales "for an adult kindergarten" ... fool
          1. +1
            8 October 2013 14: 02
            Quote: michajlo
            If you think that over the past 30 from the beginning of "perestroika ..." you all know, understand

            Hello! Socialism, as we had it, is a utopia. Public ownership of the means of production and "leveling" in everything is a utopia. Marx very well decomposes capitalism into its component parts and draws conclusions about its impending collapse. He saw nascent capitalism and could not foresee its ability to adapt. And he had no examples of socialism. Lenin, in his last works, already traced the idea that the construction of socialism in the proposed version is problematic.
            The model of "Swedish socialism" turned out to be more viable. Although the Chinese model is adapting to modern conditions, it is still, as a system, very vulnerable and not stable.
            And the theses you have quoted are for those who do not go deep into philosophical wilds. With this I completely agree.
          2. +5
            8 October 2013 19: 31
            Quote: michajlo
            Yes, you are right in the fact that you need to work and not to grind your tongue

            Well, you know better from abroad good
            Quote: michajlo
            But maybe before building something new or again obediently going “for a blind guide”,

            A blind guide is Putin, it’s understandable. But the author, as I understand it, is smarter than Putin, but the author will not become president of Russia, just as you are fortunate for Russia.
            Quote: michajlo

            If you think that over the past 30 from the beginning of "perestroika ..."

            I don’t think anything, but I just do not care when people from abroad tell me who to vote for, how to live, how to raise a child and what to think about the authorities in the country. You left Russia, well, GOOD BY hi
            1. +3
              9 October 2013 05: 28
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              You left Russia, well, GOOD BAY

              Sasha what Citizen of Ukraine living in Slovakia wassat This is not even a characteristic but a diagnosis. fool laughing
              1. +2
                9 October 2013 05: 37
                Quote: Ruslan67
                This is not even a characteristic but a diagnosis.

                hi Ruslan! Yes, let him write what he wants. I read his comments, but such an idea attends that these are quotes from European politicians. Putin must am He also wrote that in the Far East in the flood people blame Medvedev wassat That’s what kind of press a person reads, or just to say request
                1. +2
                  9 October 2013 05: 43
                  [quote = Alexander Romanov] He also wrote that in the Far East people blame Medvedev for the flood Like in a perestroika rhyme ... - and some kind of chick starts trains off the rails wassat
                  1. +2
                    9 October 2013 06: 19
                    Quote: Ruslan67
                    and some kind of chicks from the rail lets the trains go

                    And what would I do without you my dear what .................................................. .............. q !!!!! wassat
                2. +1
                  9 October 2013 05: 45
                  Quote: Alexander Romanov
                  , or just to say

                  But the rating worries worse than hemorrhoids tongue
                3. +1
                  9 October 2013 05: 52
                  Quote: Alexander Romanov
                  Yes, let him write what he wants.

                  Do you know enough! Why was rarely on the site you know request A week later, you come in — new generals like shit after a bath breed and multiply by budding. negative The phrase-humpback hang a bunch of pluses collects What changed the tactics of the gnomotrolls?
        3. +5
          8 October 2013 17: 12
          work again ... YES WHERE? Ekary Babai! People for pennies like Gaster go to the region to work!
        4. bilgesez
          +4
          8 October 2013 18: 23
          And for whom to work for Abram Moiseevich. But he didn’t want to work for me, I’d better get the machine and go return what they took from me and my people. Not for that, my ancestors plowed to bloody bunnies in the eyes, so that all sorts of Abramovichs would buy houses in Manhattan.
        5. +3
          8 October 2013 22: 13
          Nobody argues to work, but the lessons of the past must be remembered, all the more it is not about greatness, but about "rulers from the people" and the results of THEIR "work".
          Hence the conclusion: look who you choose (so for the future ...)
      4. +7
        8 October 2013 11: 52
        You need to know what would happen, so that in the future there is not what we have.
      5. +11
        8 October 2013 14: 25
        And I would like to live in the USSR, with its planned economy, with an allegedly homely life. I would just like not to see tormented parents trying to feed my sister and me in the 90s and give an education. When an aviation engine engineer leaves the Kuznetsov and goes to cover the roofs, dig the ground - whatever .. And in As a result, he becomes a driver first of trucks for the owner, then of personal carts. And having made an attempt last year to return to his native plant, he faced clannishness (the deputy for preparation and the head of the workshop - father and son), complete pokuism and unprofessionalism of completely outsiders in the production of people with left-wing education - and had to leave again ..
      6. +7
        8 October 2013 16: 36
        Quote: Igor39
        If grandmother had ..., then she would be a grandfather.

        And what, because of this, the article should be neglected ??
        Less so write better!
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        The long article in a series of fantastic prose.

        Well, count through the integrals, if of course the tama allows.

        The man clearly explains to you that with simple linear equations, based on similar methods used by our capitalist "friends", he has derived a TOTAL, which shows a fantastic reality in which we all did not have to live happily ...
        Instead of what could be statistically, the whole huge country last eaten without salt and just kept up to lick the bruises in the soul and bodies from the activities of a handful of successful liberal economists and their associates of bandits with unfortunate businessmen ...

        Yes, God is with us, but our children and especially grandchildren can’t even imagine what a truly happy childhood is like ... Without a general kitsch, and division into castes from fancy. It seems that children, starting from the 90s of birth, are immediately born with a stigma on the body that defines the kasu - either tramp-slaves, or bandits, or celestials with dollar bills ...
        About grandfathers who could not adapt to new realities and died out prematurely or do you know everything ??

        Minusory, damn fucking ...

        What, long texts to read and to think in parallel does not take out a truncated brain?
        1. -3
          8 October 2013 16: 38
          Quote: Tartary

          What, long texts to read and to think in parallel does not take out a truncated brain?

          Your pancake has a truncated brain. I don’t read any desire.
          1. +3
            8 October 2013 16: 54
            Alexander Romanov (1) RU Today, 16:38 _131008 / WTO New
            Quote: Tartary
            What, long texts to read and to think in parallel does not take out a truncated brain?
            You yourself have a pancake with a truncated brain. I don’t read any desire. Get away! [/color]

            Hello non-respected Alexander!

            Rude's please, dear? sad A person turns to you for you, and you immediately poke, yes "not the first time."

            And because of something you’re so angry, that again you ate a bottle without a snack?

            Sincerely, Mikhailo.
            1. +1
              8 October 2013 18: 28
              Quote: michajlo
              The man turns to you, and you immediately poke

              Remember the joke about the muskrat? wassat
              Quote: michajlo
              And because of something you’re so angry,

              We got pink snot in the genre of fantastic nonsense about the fact that they themselves miscalculated
            2. +1
              8 October 2013 19: 18
              Quote: michajlo

              Hello non-respected Alexander!

              Hello not respected Michael!
              Quote: michajlo
              Rude's please, dear?

              I answer rudeness
              Quote: michajlo
              The man turns to you

              A person knows me as flaky, but you darling should not meddle in other people's conversations. You were not invited!
              Quote: michajlo
              And because of something you are so angry that you have eaten a bottle again without a snack?

              Well, which of us is hamloe?
              1. +2
                8 October 2013 19: 33
                Alexander Romanov (1) RU Today, 19:18 _131008 / WTO

                Hello, Alexander!

                I beg you to forgive me for being slow-witted. crying
                It dawns on me for a long time that someone with such impunity can all shamelessly “poke and treat like in a cupboard (when looking for a fallen glass under the table)”.

                I will have to learn from you such creative treatment, I’m sure that if the admins are kind to you, then we can also mortals, try how it is with this like him: “Quod licet Jovi, non licet bovi” / “What is allowed Jupiter is not allowed to bull. ”

                Forgive me slow-witted, generously. I will no longer take up your precious time.

                I wish you all the best! hi Mikhailo.
                1. -1
                  9 October 2013 05: 21
                  Quote: michajlo
                  It dawns on me for a long time that someone with such impunity can all shamelessly “poke and treat like in a buffet

                  I noticed this, you are not Estonian by nationality for an hour? Or is it a European tradition of greeting every komenta. And then also wonder what he pokes at me what No damn it, I'll start to poke reading before the coming koment, where ...
                  Quote: michajlo
                  Hello non-respected Alexander!

                  And for the future, to someone, but culture wouldn’t hurt to learn.
                  1. +1
                    9 October 2013 05: 24
                    Quote: Alexander Romanov
                    No damn, I'll start poking

                    Offended desman laughing Do you remember the hedgehog? - wassat
          2. +4
            8 October 2013 18: 39
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            Your pancake has a truncated brain. I don’t read any desire.

            I don’t remember your shadow on any hectare where you had to cut yourself ...

            The mice rustled in the bushes, I remember, but your shadow was definitely not ...

            Do not read, do not write all sorts of nonsense. And then with all sorts of giggles and dummies, I accumulated an epaulet on myself. Forgot how to troll the forum with your bandeika two years ago? Now who imagines himself ?!

            Power is such an insidious thing, Sasha ...
            1. 0
              8 October 2013 19: 23
              Quote: Tartary
              . And then with all sorts of giggles and dummies, I accumulated an epaulet on myself.

              Yes, I remember, you still dreamed of becoming a marshal by his last nickname, here you’ll become faster +.
              Quote: Tartary
              . Forgot how to troll the forum with your bandeika two years ago? Now who imagines himself ?!

              What I already remember, especially the story of the Odessa woman and your mats left and right. I can still control who I was and sometimes I do it in my mood. Nothing has changed, you see a warning hanging from me bully
              Quote: Tartary
              Power - it’s such an insidious thing, Sasha ..

              Smirnov has power, but I have never had it, and not one moderator has it eithercrying And I want to become a governor and marry Putin’s daughter winked
              1. +2
                8 October 2013 23: 01
                Quote: Alexander Romanov
                And I want to become a governor and marry Putin’s daughter

                In the reverse order, first on Putin’s daughter, and then immediately to the governors. bully
              2. +1
                9 October 2013 03: 23
                Quote: Alexander Romanov
                Smirnov has power, but I have never had it, and not one moderator has it either. And I really want to become a governor and marry Putin’s daughter

                Offset ... lol
                Quote: Alexander Romanov
                What I remember, especially the story of the Odessa and your mats left and right.

                Do not lie! There were no mats, but there were allegorical expressions with which I am fabulously rich ... So rich that my ability to convey a picture written in words sometimes exceeds the ability of the A-appraiser to correctly assess the reality in which he, after reading a comment addressed only to him, turns out to be ...
                I'll even say more ... The friends of this A-apponent also "float" and begin to behave inappropriately, taking the picture I created for allegedly written obscene words ... I also have some copies of those glorious times, if that ...
                Quote: Alexander Romanov
                Yes, I remember, you still dreamed of becoming a marshal by his last nickname, here you’ll become faster +.

                These are your speculations, Alexander ... They don’t judge by themselves - that’s how adequate people used to say in my youth ...
                When you, together with your gang, conspiring to deliberately lower my rating every day on purpose, I asked Smirnov to make me ordinary. But your shobla did not calm down and drove me into the skulls and not only me. Smirnov was silent.
                I left the site, and returned only six months later ... But during my absence, I often visited the site as a Guest - to watch how your coalition scoffed at the rating of those whom I no longer see under old nicknames ...
                And when I came back I saw and felt again your zeal to be a "padishah" ... lol
                And you say that there is no power ...

                Is the goal achieved? Or not yet ??
                1. +2
                  9 October 2013 05: 15
                  Quote: Tartary
                  And then with all sorts of giggles and dummies, I accumulated an epaulet on myself.

                  Quote: Tartary
                  Forgot how to troll the forum with your bandeika two years ago?

                  Quote: Tartary
                  . But your shobla did not calm down and drove me into the skulls and not only me.

                  all expressed7 I was ranked as a new gang of marshals when I was not even a general request maybe it’s time to turn on the brains and understand that it’s not about shoulder straps on ava? I myself without any admins or moderators drove a bunch of boors into the skulls am and at the same time, it has grown to the same epaulette. Maybe the point is that you are the character of Norwegian fairy tales or should you be treated very tolerantly as it should be according to pan-European values?
                  1. +1
                    9 October 2013 05: 48
                    Quote: Ruslan67
                    voiced everything7


                    And what, boredom overcame?
                    1. +2
                      9 October 2013 05: 54
                      Quote: Tartary
                      And what, boredom overcame?

                      I'm starting to feel myself again at a combat post soldier
                      1. +1
                        9 October 2013 15: 25
                        Quote: Ruslan67
                        I'm starting to feel myself again at a combat post


                        So you always need not to relax - all of a sudden, and we are in a warm bath, naked and without weapons ...
                2. +1
                  9 October 2013 05: 32
                  Quote: Tartary

                  Do not lie! There were no mats, but there were allegorical expressions with which I am fabulously rich ..

                  For allegorical do not fly away in an eternal ban!
                  Quote: Tartary
                  They don’t judge by themselves - this is how adequate people used to say in my youth ...

                  On the arrows of the gopniks laughing
                  Quote: Tartary
                  When you, together with your gang, conspiring, every day deliberately began to very lowly lower my rating

                  Was the case wink
                  Quote: Tartary
                  I asked Smirnov to make me private.

                  I remember this day well, at that time you had 9 warnings and I slammed you for the next mate 10. The admin removed it from you, but reset the rating, so let's not
                  Quote: Tartary
                  I left the site and returned only six months later ..

                  Gash belay
                  Quote: Tartary
                  And when I came back I saw and felt again your zeal to be a "padishah" ..

                  Yes, I remember when you removed 1000 ratings from you for running and trying to drive a newcomer into your skull, minus all his comments, including replays.
                  Quote: Tartary
                  And you say that there is no power ...

                  There would be power, then a dozen or two visitors, would already be in an eternal bath, and so sad
                  Quote: Tartary
                  Is the goal achieved? Or not yet ??

                  Okay, I persuaded, I will buy sayit and then all the thunder and lightning will fall on the heads of those who ...... from Khabarovsk wassat
                  1. +2
                    9 October 2013 05: 40
                    Quote: Alexander Romanov
                    For allegorical do not fly away in an eternal ban!

                    Alexander wassat Well, be objective, I didn’t fly away for an open ban. request Red Editor am laughing + ancient Greek so that you censors homegrown ............ bully drinks hi
                  2. +2
                    9 October 2013 06: 03
                    Quote: Alexander Romanov
                    I remember this day well, at that time you had 9 warnings and I slammed you for the next mate 10. The admin removed it from you, but reset the rating, so let's not

                    Why not? Did Smirnov share personal correspondence with you?
                    Quote: Alexander Romanov
                    Okay, I persuaded, I will buy sayit and then all the thunder and lightning will fall on the heads of those who ...... from Khabarovsk

                    Did you catch the initial stage? In Vladivostok, it’s like two fingers on the asphalt ... request
                    Quote: Alexander Romanov
                    There would be power, then a dozen or two visitors, would already be in an eternal bath, and so

                    Enamel on dentures should be protected ... Dentistry is not a cheap "pleasure" now ...
                    Quote: Alexander Romanov
                    Gash

                    Well, if such an explanation of the missed time period is closer, then consider that YES ... I had to stay for a long time ...
                    Quote: Alexander Romanov
                    For allegorical do not fly away in an eternal ban!

                    With your participation, not such miracles happen ...
                    Quote: Alexander Romanov
                    Yes, I remember when you removed 1000 ratings from you for running and trying to drive a newcomer into your skull, minus all his comments, including replays.

                    I "ran" after the newbie, and you followed me - that's a lot of fun ...
                    It was better to clean up the site when newbies trolled in several of the same comments multiple times - people got tired of reading ... But you still didn’t figure it out, smart moderator ... What is it?
                    Quote: Alexander Romanov
                    On the arrows of the gopniks

                    There weren’t such then - gopniks are already the conquest of your generation ...
                    Quote: Alexander Romanov
                    There would be power, then a dozen or two visitors, would already be in an eternal bath, and so

                    And this phrase is proof of that.
                    I can imagine - Alesander Romanov, on the empty site with a "fly swatter", finishes off the last "officers" and "generals", zealously protecting the newcomers ...
                    At the same time, he speaks in capital letters with himself ... lol

                    Well, well ... Come on, come on.
                    1. +1
                      9 October 2013 06: 07
                      Quote: Tartary
                      Well, well ... Come on, come on.

                      Well, there is an interlocutor what But can I ask you a question? Is Stavr Godinovich the result of a hangover syndrome or an identification mark for foreign intelligence services?
                      1. 0
                        9 October 2013 15: 28
                        Quote: Ruslan67
                        But can I ask you a question? Is Stavr Godinovich the result of a hangover syndrome or an identification mark for foreign intelligence services?

                        The question is possible, but you may not like the answer at all ...

                        In order not to upset you, it’s better not to say anything.
                    2. 0
                      9 October 2013 06: 15
                      Quote: Tartary
                      Did Smirnov share personal correspondence with you?

                      Then you poke me, then you poke, let’s decide already. As for personal correspondence, he doesn’t ban a person just like that, he very often consults with moderators or tries to find another way.
                      Quote: Tartary
                      In Vladivostok, it’s like two fingers on the asphalt.

                      And then wink
                      Quote: Tartary
                      Enamel on dentures must be protected.

                      Yes, I have mine (for now) and you are not a dentist for an hour? Why I ask, but you never know, maybe it will come in handy.
                      Quote: Tartary
                      . I had to stay for a long time ...

                      In jail belay
                      Quote: Tartary
                      With your participation, not such miracles happen ...

                      Yes, it's all my fault, but you have nothing to do with it.
                      Quote: Tartary
                      It was better to clean the site when newbies trolled,

                      The newcomer did not troll, then there were problems on the site and many had repetitions of comments, including yours. So do not la la.
                      Quote: Tartary
                      Imagine - Alesander Romanov on an empty site

                      So you’ll be registered again wassat
                      1. +1
                        9 October 2013 15: 23
                        Quote: Alexander Romanov
                        So you’ll be registered again

                        Everything is possible ... But according to the mood.
                        Quote: Alexander Romanov
                        Yes, it's all my fault, but you have nothing to do with it.

                        I will leave no comment
                        Quote: Alexander Romanov
                        Yes, I have mine (for now) and you are not a dentist for an hour? Why I ask, but you never know, maybe it will come in handy.

                        I’m still a chiropractor, surgeon, anesthetist, and a proctologist, if I really need to ... feel
                        Quote: Alexander Romanov
                        Then you poke me, then you poke, come on already determined.

                        Sasha, everything is according to the situation ... Where you are accurate, I will contact you at YOU ...
                        And where not quite, it is only academically.
                        Will such an option?
      7. Mature naturalist
        +2
        8 October 2013 21: 56
        Solid work. Scrolling from top to bottom. Now 2013, the USSR has long been somewhere behind. You can not enter twice in the same river. We must go forward.
      8. +4
        8 October 2013 21: 57
        not knowing what happened, how do you know what to strive for?
      9. +2
        8 October 2013 22: 34
        You do not know how it was therefore a problem now.
      10. 0
        8 October 2013 22: 38
        Judging by the minuses, the majority live in the past.
        1. 0
          10 October 2013 20: 29
          "Judging by the downsides, most are living in the past."

          Most do not consider history a useless and boring subject.
    2. +6
      8 October 2013 08: 05
      And now bite your elbows, now you need to work and rebuild the country (RBC). Ukraine decided to go its own way, a tablecloth-path, then they themselves will crawl, and even half of Eastern Europe will be brought to the EU, I think so. Czech Republic, Bulgaria, Hungary, Slovakia, already regret that they entered the EU. The Balts moved closer to the European aftershocks, so that it would be more convenient to clean them, soon some non-citizens would remain there. Serbia openly announces entry into the CU, but there is no common border.
      Friendship is possible among equals. It is difficult to consider LITHUANIA and Germany as equal countries.
      1. +1
        8 October 2013 08: 12
        That's it, I didn’t even read, break off and get upset, as it would be good ...
    3. -4
      8 October 2013 08: 53
      Quote: Igor39
      If grandmother had ..., then she would be a grandfather.

      I agree completely ... Add another beard lol
      And according to the article. What is it about? About the fact that we have to realize something there? About how it would be? About why we? Pure water verbiage.
      Sitting and tearing hair on the head-Ah, what we have lost ... the lot of weaklings. And the author is just in my opinion from such whiners. It’s better to read some Natsik who calls to ruin everything than such an article. Natsik, though not acceptable me, but the position ... And this.
      Minus in full and I do not advise reading ..
      1. +1
        10 October 2013 20: 46
        true verbiage.
        Minus in full and I do not advise reading ..

        Judging by the comments, they themselves did not read everything. The author gives an analysis. Here you have to think, use various parts of the brain ... and silently take note for the future. After all, the author proved his conclusions convincingly.

        It is clear that such long texts are difficult for fans of various positions ... Analyze more and react more calmly. hi
    4. -8
      8 October 2013 09: 25
      The people of the USSR made their choice in the direction of capitalism, for those who begin as a child to say "everything was decided for us" I will answer in Lenin's way "the price of the revolution that cannot defend itself"
      1. yur
        yur
        +3
        8 October 2013 23: 51
        The people of the USSR did not make a choice in the direction of capitalism, they did not! The people were impudently deceived. Remember what Yeltsin "grew up on" on his alleged "struggle" with the "illegal" privileges of the party elite. Here the people supported him. And if he then hinted that he was going to return capitalism, people would have tore him up along with the tank on which he mounted.
    5. -10
      8 October 2013 13: 16
      Quote: Igor39
      If grandmother had ..., then she would be a grandfather.


      Yeah ... another whining about how cool it was in the esseser. And the fact that this scribbler would now bring down the forest in the gulag, he naturally does not think, he believes that there is only one voice of the people ...
    6. -1
      8 October 2013 14: 06
      Quote: Igor39
      If grandmother had ..., then she would be a grandfather.

      And yet, then we would not have the Internet. belay
      1. 0
        8 October 2013 14: 37
        But if the cheburashka had grown? What would it be? Something like this. laughing
    7. +5
      8 October 2013 20: 31
      If not for history! I completely agree with the author of the article! The destruction of the USSR is a well-planned action. Under whose leadership? It is not yet known, but maybe someday the names of the curators of this process will be known, and the executor is known - Gorbachev. I can confirm with complete confidence that the seventies - early eighties are the best years of the life of the USSR. At the beginning of the 70s I began my career, at the beginning of the 80s I started working as a manager of a production section, and further on ascending. I will not talk about the global, but I will only say about my native plant - in the 80s we were inundated with orders for the production of equipment: Nigeria, Germany, Argentina, Japan, (in the 70s there was an order in the USA), the countries of the socialist camp, and internal orders. almost 15000 people worked, almost all workshops in three shifts. The fame about the plant thundered all over the world. Perestroika began, the state did not need the plant, and no one taught us to work in market conditions. And what is the result? The sales market was lost, some technologies (unique, the only ones in the world) were sold by the management of the plant over the hill (just to snatch money), after the arrival of "effective managers" from outside, who came with a scandal, with a mask - show and buying up shares, the destruction of the plant began. The machines were torn by the roots and sold - this was called streamlining the technological process and reducing taxes on equipment (part of the machines and equipment sold and destroyed, sent to the copier for melting, should be used in case of war), workshops began to be closed and leased, steel to expel old workers, replacing them with guest workers, hence the marriage and refusal of products by customers. For that, more or less money production was removed from the plant by organizing an LLC. This is not only here, everywhere. There was the USSR, there was the State Planning Committee, there was Vneshtorg, which gave assignments to factories, gave what the factories needed in order to work and fulfill the plan, releasing products, and now the devil is that. Market! Not a market, but a bazaar!
      1. +1
        9 October 2013 17: 51
        Hello dear! Sorry, I don’t know how to dignify you by name, you are used to knowing to contact the person you are talking to by name.

        Regarding the fact that the collapse of the Union was a planned action, this is, alas, a sick but truthful fact. am The fact that Gorbachev is blamed for his collapse is just a widespread delusion, which, by the way, was also prepared in advance. Well, simply "Juda MSG" was greedy for fame, money, medals and prizes, and for the sake of them he was ready to sell his mother too.

        Regarding the true organizers of the collapse of the USSR, I have already written a little here, and I will continue to bring clarity to this "cover legend" that they say that the "MSG restructuring" can for all troubles, since according to my information, the culprit of this CHANGE OF THE HOMELAND is KGB ", which has been working on this possibility since the 70s !!!

        This former communist for me, a very unpleasant and painful fact, I personally digested and double-checked for a long time, because what I had heard and read in Czech and Slovak sources, a description and reverse analysis of the preparation, conduct
        - and most importantly, the close and distant consequences of the so-called "velvet revolution" in the former Czechoslovakia in Noah 1989 ",
        - This confirms on all counts.

        And if we take that the scenario of the coup in the CSFR (2nd Czechoslovak Republic) was the same as in other countries of the post-USSR (Hungary, Poland, Romania and the last East Germany),
        - then when analyzing events in the USSR for 1985-1991,
        - I am personally convinced that this accusation of “CHANGE of the Motherland” against the top of the KGB is correct!

        Other forces in the country (USSR) and all ATS that have power, specialists, employees, non-controlled sources of funding, contacts with "friendly" Western intelligence services, for the "CONTROLLED transfer of power" to the post-ATS, their trusted agents of socialist intelligence services, who spoke as an “honest and principled opposition to the social regime,” neither I, nor you, WILL FIND ANYWHERE!

        And I personally can’t believe that everything that was built on the bones and blood of the Soviet people and the Communists in Eastern Europe for many decades, is just so “playful”,
        - was destroyed in 4 years in the post-ATS (1985-1989)
        - and for 6 years in the USSR (1985-1991)
        - ONLY one bold pack of Gorby & Co !?

        I do not believe in randomness, and then only some MSG was so capable, smart, foreseeable, and he planned everything himself, fulfilled and after all the BETRAYING, he survived?, Gets HOSPITAL?, And even at times "ORDER him of a devoted country" (for what and from whom?) ...

        Well, dear forum users, my words and conclusions will be enough for you to start, so that a decent person immediately spoils his mood, has lost his appetite and has the urge to vomit, with only the mention of the words "the leadership of our brave and fearless security officers and our Central Committee of the CPSU"? !

        Sincerely, Mikhailo.
    8. +1
      8 October 2013 21: 34
      and if aunt had ..., then she would be an uncle wassat
    9. 0
      19 July 2017 12: 29
      If we then had brains, not Wishlist. It will be more accurate.
  2. The comment was deleted.
  3. Apologet insane
    +16
    8 October 2013 07: 51
    The whole point of the article is in the phrase "After the assassination of Stalin."
  4. 10kAzAk01
    +10
    8 October 2013 08: 03
    ... in Russia they always looked for the guilty !!! in this case EVERYONE knows who is guilty !!! why no responsibility ??? ...... oh I know that it’s stupid to ask about it ....
  5. Troy
    +20
    8 October 2013 08: 06
    Gorbachev to the count!
    1. +1
      8 October 2013 14: 56
      My friend YOU are too compassionate, let him stay in Gadyukino for retirement. And put seven so that he doesn’t hang himself but LIVES.
    2. +1
      8 October 2013 21: 36
      No. or maybe still hang upside down to spit in your face it was more convenient? otherwise we won’t get it on the stake
  6. Volkhov
    -14
    8 October 2013 08: 10
    The USSR is the first stage of American colonization with a length of 70 years, now the next one. Yes, the USSR is better than the Russian Federation in many elements, as the first stage of the disease is better than the subsequent ones, but it’s actually good to be healthy.
    It is necessary to return to the Hyperborea system, the times of wisdom and power, and not to consider the length of the trolleybus lines (it is completely unclear what such statistics say in the article). This is another science and society, an open world and access to space, and there is an affluence for this.
    If this is not done, then it will still be and partly there, but the language of the new Hyperborea will be German.
    1. +2
      8 October 2013 09: 28
      If this is not done, then it will still be and partly there, but the language of the new Hyperborea will be German.

      wassat
      To be honest I HZ what to tell you.
      The question has appeared. And what kind of country is such a mythical Hyperborea? This political entity was or is it the name of the territory.

      In general, all this garbage that would be ... yes if only ...
      I went to read about armored trains.
      1. Volkhov
        0
        8 October 2013 10: 01
        Hyperborea is the Greek name for ours. Not a country, but civilization; around was Barmia (Biarmia) like Ukraine on the edge of Russia. Completely unique, but you can take an example.
  7. +10
    8 October 2013 08: 13
    We must return to socialism. this is perhaps the only goal at the moment that can unite many, and much from the section "well forgotten old", control over officials, or rather their elimination, routine operations in the field of public services are done by people, this is bubemayze, our motto is "a woman was taken out - a machine gun was put on "
    1. +4
      8 October 2013 08: 31
      Quote: saag
      control over officials more precisely their elimination,

      But from now on, in more detail, please. wink
    2. waisson
      +5
      8 October 2013 08: 42
      late my friend late I had to think with my head earlier
      1. 0
        8 October 2013 10: 04
        here is a great comment

        Quote: waisson
        late my friend late I had to think with my head earlier


        and this one

        Quote: major071
        You cannot return the past, you must really look at life and try to fix something in the existing state.
        1. +10
          8 October 2013 12: 13
          O_RUS (2) RU Today, 10:04 _131018 / WTO New
          here is a great comment
          Quote: waisson
          late my friend late I had to think with my head earlier
          and this one Quote: major071
          You cannot return the past, you must really look at life and try to fix something in the existing state.


          Good afternoon, dear nickname without a name! The article itself is good and well-developed, to the author Nikolai, thank you very much from me. good

          I and many of you have put the “-” behind the row from the bottom of my heart. fool It’s better that admins consider me a “hater”, but I can’t read your blind errors without objection.
          I will explain to everyone why.
          Yes, you’re right that today outside of 2013, and not 1985, when you voted to the rostrum of the “Kremlin Palace of Congresses”, WE THROUGH the female hostess of the MSG, who began to diligently voice LATER before him, prepared for the General Secrecy “Speech on perestroika, transparency, acceleration, peace, disarmament and other nasty things. "

          Yes, you are all those who are younger than us (we are a generation with birth in the 50-60s, and you are from the 80-90s), you reproach us all the elders that we PRO * RALI Union, bought into new speeches, freedoms and other "devilish tricks." This is a fact and I personally yes and I think that none of us are the older generation, we are not responsible for ourselves and we cannot justify that I personally was a young communist (since 1978), but then I myself “blindly believed in the words of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union” and didn’t listen to the sensible and critical voices of the old whitened gray-haired people, who immediately saw through the “VILENT essence” of the new modern GenSek and told it to us young! And I was still over their fears then in 1985 laughed, silly and self-confident in their knowledge and higher education ...
          And the old people are ALWAYS right. Therefore, I am from 40-45, when I myself have thought a lot, very carefully listen to the elders, and I appreciate their opinions and concerns, not public figures and politicians, but simple commoners, especially believers (It makes no difference that Catholics / I live in Slovakia, that of the Orthodox)!
          They all advise us, who are younger, not for profit, fame, honor! These old people from the people just help us from the heart, and their advice is UNCERTAINTY and ALWAYS correct.

          But about the REAL reasons for the successful collapse of the Union and now after 30 years, few tell the truth and few of you think about the questions:
          - WHO PUSHED MSG rot in the General Secand 18 years of work in party activity?
          - Whose speeches, thoughts and plansHe represented us as OWN?
          - Who directed him, organized, guarded?
          - and after him completed the "heavy mission of Judas" and hundreds of thousands of "new refugees" in the post-Soviet space, for some reason he has not yet been overtaken by the "retaliation ice ax" and even bunks? Alone "Order of the new" Russia? From whom and for what?

          Think about it first and then shout in chorus:
          - yes, the Union was outlived itself, it was uncompetitive, bad and other stupidities imposed on you ...
          1. 0
            9 October 2013 22: 36
            Quote: michajlo
            and you are from the 80-90s)


            "Why, my" friend ", denigrating a brother,
            You drive the horse at full speed "

            I'm over 40

            Quote: michajlo
            and other stupidities imposed on you ...


            Ludicrous and ridiculous to a sigh "ah"
            When thinking is simple,
            Suddenly accused of deadly sins,
            Overflowing from empty to empty ...

            So strange when an individual
            Uninvited but recognizing himself for sure,
            Stubborn and confidently stigmatizes
            You, yourself, of course, "blameless"!
    3. +1
      8 October 2013 12: 05
      Quote: saag
      We must return to socialism. this is perhaps the only goal for the moment,

      Utopia, complete! Peaceful transition is impossible (read Marx), and do another revolution? Right - it’s not even funny, so why step on the rake again?
  8. 10kAzAk01
    +6
    8 October 2013 08: 15
    Another trend is seen that the country whose leader received the Nobel Peace Prize expects collapse !!! GDP REFUSE FROM THIS Crap !!!!!!!!!!!!!
    1. 755962
      +3
      8 October 2013 08: 31
      Canadian billionaire Ned Goodman: dollar dominance will soon end

      Presenting an excerpt from a speech by Canadian billionaire, President and CEO of Dundee Corporation Ned Goodman at the Toronto Investment Management Conference, September 12:

      I believe that the dominance of the dollar as a global reserve currency (of which it is de facto) will soon come to an end. This is how I came to this conclusion.


      Read More http://mixednews.ru/archives/42159
    2. +2
      8 October 2013 12: 23
      It’s just a recognition by the West of the right direction of development .., then whoever likes what. In general, it's time to think about what to do and with whom.
  9. +6
    8 October 2013 08: 19
    Dreams, dreams ... If only, if only. You cannot return the past, you must really look at life and try to fix something in the existing state.
  10. +16
    8 October 2013 08: 23
    The article is necessary! At least in order to explain to high school students and students where they hang their noodles on their ears and that they don’t need to be afraid of socialism, but, given the mistakes of the past, they need to return all the best that was during the USSR. Now I’ll copy it and send it for my granddaughter - to argue with classmates, and for my daughter-in-law - she teaches at the university and many students ask questions. Not always enough arguments are enough.
  11. 0
    8 October 2013 08: 26
    Quote: saag
    We must return to socialism


    And how do you see it? And who will do it? The elites are quite satisfied with this state of affairs, they are not going to live here, wives, children - over the hill. We have become accustomed since tsarist times that the state takes care of us, and this state deceived us. A concrete example: after the teachers' salaries were raised, I began to receive about 700 rubles. less. The mother-in-law, completely detached from life, says: "We must complain to Putin during live broadcasts." Do you get it? Putin doesn't know! And Medvedev, on a similar occasion about doctors, generally claimed that this was a lie. To all the hints about the salary, our management has one answer: "Quit." And how should I feed my family? As Dimon suggests, it’s unrealistic to find another job in the pre-retirement age.

    Arrange an orange revolution? And what did this give our neighbors? Going out to the Swamp? So all the leaders have been sitting for the second year, it’s a very complicated business there, it takes a long time to investigate.

    Bile is secreted.
    1. Yarosvet
      +3
      8 October 2013 09: 36
      Quote: mak210
      And how do you see it?
      I will allow myself to answer.

      You have to long and hard to clean your brains - both to yourself and others - in conversations at the household level, in forums, etc.
      Or you have to wait until the ass happens, as a result of which the brains of people will fall into place by themselves.
    2. +3
      8 October 2013 13: 10
      Quote: mak210
      Arrange an orange revolution? And what did this give our neighbors? Going out to the Swamp? So all the leaders have been sitting for the second year, it’s a very complicated business there, it takes a long time to investigate.

      Neither one nor the other returned to socialism as their goal declared ... Past.
      1. Yarosvet
        +1
        8 October 2013 14: 04
        Quote: alex13-61
        Quote: mak210
        Arrange an orange revolution? And what did this give our neighbors? Going out to the Swamp? So all the leaders have been sitting for the second year, it’s a very complicated business there, it takes a long time to investigate.

        Neither one nor the other returned to socialism as their goal declared ... Past.

        Yes, and the Orange Revolution was already - in the 91st
        1. -3
          8 October 2013 15: 46
          Quote: Yarosvet
          Yes, and the Orange Revolution was already - in the 91st

          What is wrong with your dates ...
          1. Yarosvet
            +3
            8 October 2013 16: 30
            Quote: alex13-61
            What is wrong with your dates ...
            Very much so - the demise of the USSR and the assumption of power by EBNya, supported by at least 50% of the population in the wake of the right slogans, followed by wrong deeds, is a standard scenario.
  12. 0
    8 October 2013 08: 34
    Eh, if yes, if only, but mushrooms would grow in your mouth ...
  13. +9
    8 October 2013 08: 36
    alas, history does not know the subjunctive mood ... now we need to correct everything. but as ? Putin in the ticks of the liberals? or doesn’t it really break? one option - to clone Stalin (Beria in the kit - a must, raise science)
    1. +7
      8 October 2013 11: 02
      Putin just knows his business tightly, through the CU, through Eurasia, but things are moving ... otherwise, all kinds of clintons wouldn’t come into a heart-rending screech! It's just that the time is different now. We will understand and help.
      1. +6
        8 October 2013 17: 26
        polly RU Today, 11:02 _131008 / WTO

        Hello dear Pauline!

        It is interesting to read your sincere admiration for Putin (if you really are Pauline?). love

        But are you sure that it is Putin himself who wants a strong and rich Russia, as the core of the new Soyuz-2 / TS?

        After all, he said that whoever regrets the Union is supposedly “stupid” (I don’t remember exactly) !? fool

        Didn’t he obediently “by ORDER because of the Atlantic” drown the ISS in the Pacific Ocean? Didn’t he destroy “operable trains with mobile nuclear weapons” under him?

        Is it not with him that the US Constitution of the Russian Federation constantly operates and is it not with him that the Central Bank of the Russian Federation pumps RUSSIAN currency in the USA to the accounts of the Fed?

        And his patriotism intensified, in my opinion, after the London court recognized “the wealth of Russian billionaires as a state obtained illegally” and thus could be confiscated by Western law enforcement agencies ?!
        Or I'm wrong?

        With all his “patriotic speeches” and, on the contrary, obediently fulfilling the wishes of aligarchs, thieves and pests / reformers, I’m not sure that he worries about the welfare of the Russian people (you are 95%), and that he cares about his own well-being and PERSONAL SAFETY and already has been STRONGLY searching for “HIS reliable successor”, what he himself was for the late EBN ?!

        After all, changes on the nose and very soon the Guarantor may be asked by “incredulous citizens,” and how exactly did Putin love and defend Russia (by the prosperity of the members of the Lake cooperative, the growth in the number of Russian billionaires, the size of his personal condition)?

        This is because Putin was signed in 2000 by the Decree on guarantees of the inviolability of “Comrade Bory” before the law!
        It may be that soon he himself may need the "reality" of this, or the same new law ...
        Or I'm wrong?
        If yes, then correct me, please point me to my miscalculations and mistakes!

        Sincerely, Mikhailo. hi
        1. +3
          8 October 2013 22: 01
          And you do not get sick, dear michajlo! It’s nothing that you doubt my gender, the main thing is (in the light of current trends) not to doubt your own, right? love And with regard to the president of my country, I said exactly as much as I wanted, so leave your seed beads to yourself: they’ll be useful for a more fertile soil. I don’t relate to it. Regards, Polina. hi
  14. shitovmg
    +15
    8 October 2013 08: 39
    In the last years of Soviet power, I was a student and lived much better than now, working as a specialist with higher education. I can not afford a lot of what was natural during my student days. On the 3rd year I received 50 rubles. increased scholarships, + part-time job, spent 110 rubles a month and put aside another savings book. Without limitation, I bought literature, equipment and ammunition for hunting, took photographs ...
    1. +13
      8 October 2013 09: 46
      Likewise! In the 4th and 5th years of the university he had the usual scholarship of 40 rubles, over the summer he earned 2,000-2,500 rubles in a construction brigade on the railway by September - this is 200 rubles each. for 10 academic months, in addition, he had a part-time job as a night watchman-loader in a dairy store, 120 rubles, in total, the "poor student" had 360-410 rubles a month. As the USSR was destroyed, it is impossible to get to that level fellow
      The article is needed primarily by young people as a vaccine against verbiage and noodles on the ears that are dumped on their heads.
      1. +5
        8 October 2013 15: 03
        Then they didn’t steal it
    2. POBEDA
      +1
      9 October 2013 03: 15
      And in my Baumanka scholarship was 120, when some fives, 84 with fours, 76 like with triples .... they lived normally
      1. 0
        9 October 2013 11: 58
        Quote: POBEDA
        And in my Baumanka scholarship was 120, when some fives, 84 with fours, 76 like with triples .... they lived normally

        These parasites lived "normally", and a collective farmer in the most prosperous Krasnodar Territory received 60 rubles a month, and he had a family and children.
  15. +4
    8 October 2013 08: 40
    "Who is to blame and what to do?"
    Eternal Russian questions. To the first question, no one seems to have any doubts. The second question remains.
  16. +1
    8 October 2013 08: 41
    Having removed their head, they don’t cry through their hair.
    Late to drink Borjomi when the kidneys fell off.


    Anyone add on the topic?
    1. +5
      8 October 2013 09: 16
      Quote: TRex
      Anyone add on the topic?

      Allow?
      "There is no greater regret than missed opportunities!"
    2. Yarosvet
      +10
      8 October 2013 09: 40
      Quote: TRex
      Anyone add on the topic?

      Knocked down - fight on your knees
      You can’t get up - step down while lying
      1. -4
        8 October 2013 12: 10
        Quote: Yarosvet
        Knocked down - fight on your knees
        You can’t get up - step down while lying

        “Why don't you shoot?”
        - The cartridges are over!
        - Ivanov, you are a communist !!!!
        And he machineed the machine gun with renewed vigor ...
        This is me to the fact that lying can only crawl.
        1. Yarosvet
          +5
          8 October 2013 13: 37
          Quote: IRBIS
          This is me to the fact that lying can only crawl.

          And I mean, that failure is not a reason to abandon the goal, which, upon closer examination, turns out to be the only true one both from the perspective of today and from the perspective of futurology.
    3. +8
      8 October 2013 09: 55
      Add. Whoever remembers the old, that eye is gone, and whoever forgets, both.

      Much has changed in 20 years. The USSR collapsed because of the people's confidence in "their" power, inertia and economic illiteracy. And there was no internet. And the "democratic" elite used the information resource "to the fullest."

      Now economic literacy has grown dramatically. Banks with loans, tax inspection, housing and communal services "services" and other "achievements" of the West, which had not been heard of before, "helped". The people began to understand offshore zones, capital flight, and pension reforms. MDA "allowed" the maternity capital a month after the "stuffing" of information.

      The conclusion is simple. To beat the "democrats" with their own weapons. Vote only for those who keep promises. And first of all, it is necessary to push through the law "On Deputies" (recall procedure, removal of immunity, income). Servants of the PEOPLE must serve.

      By the way, MDA is going to add the column "Against all" to the bulletin. This is nothing more than an attempt to keep EP afloat. there is no real opposition and it can be smeared over "self-nominated candidates".

      So, gentlemen, the choice is YOU.
      1. Yarosvet
        +3
        8 October 2013 10: 32
        Quote: GrBear
        By the way, MDA is going to add the column "Against all" to the bulletin. This is nothing more than an attempt to keep EP afloat. there is no real opposition and it can be smeared over "self-nominated candidates".

        I agree with you in many respects, but what has been highlighted ... It turns out that NeDimon is to blame for everything, and the chief strategist seems to have nothing to do with it again.

        Putin's words on the EP forum:
        1. +3
          8 October 2013 11: 42
          Dear Yarosvet, everything to do with it.

          And they understand that. For example, Seliger (political greenpeace), where P. was. This shows that the authorities took into account the mistakes of the one-party system, but do not want to share it. This is firstly.
          Secondly. The sabotage of e-government and services is obvious. This indicates an understanding of the power of information.
          Thirdly. The process of "Russification" of deputies and state-owned companies shows that the "misunderstanding of the beloved people of their happiness" in matters of economics and domestic policy is becoming critically dangerous for the existing government.
          There are a number of other signs, but here it is important not to let yourself be calmed down and smoothly "press".
          There is no need for "new life from Monday" - it was.

          PS Somewhere it flashed that THEY noted that they were their name. The people distance themselves from power !?
          1. Yarosvet
            +3
            8 October 2013 13: 03
            Quote: GrBear
            This shows that the authorities took into account the mistakes of the one-party system, but do not want to share it.
            I doubt that mistakes have occurred: the task of the government is to prevent mass unrest - not about any development of human potential (occurring through the development of the economy, science, education, culture, medicine, etc.), that is, we are not talking about the development of the country. Just in the current conditions, the likelihood of rebellion is increasing, and therefore unpopular measures should be offset by the appearance of popular ones.

            The sabotage of e-government and services is obvious. It talks about understanding the power of information.
            Everyone understands the power of information for a very long time, the consequence of which is sabotage, but the authorities themselves sabotage - and apparently this state of affairs was supposed from the very beginning, since the creation of the appearance of popular measures is one thing, and their implementation in practice, leading to a dilution of power - another.

            "Russification" of deputies and state companies shows that "misunderstanding of the beloved people of their happiness" in matters of economy and domestic policy is becoming critically dangerous for the existing government
            Again - I observe only the appearance of this process.

            but here it’s important not to let yourself calm down
            This is the problem - for example, people claim that the stool will be planted (if it is, then everything is fine), and if the guarantor does not notice direct violations of the Constitution, the next feint will allow him to keep the status quo nothing without changing.

            Somewhere it flashed that THEY noted that they were their name. The people distance themselves from power !?
            The people have long been distanced from the authorities, they have neither the time nor the energy or understanding of what is happening, his only desire is to be left alone.
    4. +2
      8 October 2013 10: 13
      Quote: TRex
      Anyone add on the topic?

      Man is the smith of his own happiness.
      Without labor you can not catch a fish from the pond.
      We will destroy the whole world of violence.
  17. waisson
    +7
    8 October 2013 08: 44
    I think they would be in front of the whole planet and not China
  18. +3
    8 October 2013 08: 51
    22 years have passed - and articles are being written and written.
    It was, but it is already in the past.
    Now is a different era.
    Another question is that it was necessary to go along the Chinese path.
    1. -2
      8 October 2013 21: 40
      Quote: Lindon
      22 years have passed - and articles are being written and written.


      but as if it were yesterday.

      to be honest, personally, I am against reconstructing an alliance in this format. Look at the situation of the former union republics. And what would be the use of such an alliance? Once again, a couple of rich people will be parasitized by the parasite. No, I don’t know about you, I don’t want to.

      and the people are now different. Earlier, people rushed into hell for each other, and now everyone is on the drum like the others.
  19. +15
    8 October 2013 09: 07
    Zadolbali talk about the "standard of living" all the time - this indicator does not measure the whole reality

    How about "quality of life". When the younger generation did not drink in the entrances and doorways, but sat in circles in the palaces of pioneers or sports clubs, when people were not afraid for their tomorrow, were not afraid to be left without work or to be thrown out of the apartment. When you could get high-quality medical care without being a millionaire, and it was also not scary to leave your apartment alone late at night, what nafig dollars per capita can you measure?
    1. Yarosvet
      +1
      8 October 2013 09: 48
      Quote: Straus_zloy
      Zadolbali all the time to talk about living standards
      How about quality of life

      One without the other does not exist
  20. +4
    8 October 2013 09: 13
    Don’t pour salt on me for sugar ... If yes, if only ... And if Stalin had lived another 5 years and Khrushchev and his accomplices pressed to the nail ... And the CPSU would become not a ruling party, but a socio-political system of education and formation ... And now our spacecraft would scurry between Mars, Venus and the Earth. And even Saturn would have reached ... and not only plowed the vastness of the Bolshoi Theater ...
    Do you remember how in 1991 they first fought a throat for Yeltsin and independent Russia? (from whom independent?) How did they laugh at Brezhnev's "sisemasisseski"? That's all. And now only to be nostalgic and play an alternative. They sailed.
  21. +3
    8 October 2013 09: 35
    The article gives more, wishful thinking. With the economy that was at the end of the USSR, it would clearly be worse.
    And so that the USSR did not fall apart, it was necessary to rebuild the economy as early as 70 years. By allowing the private sector and other liberal economic gadgets. But retaining full control of the state in the energy sector, military-industrial complex, and even in some places.
    Although guessing, it is not grateful. There is what is and it is necessary to build on this ...
  22. dmb
    +6
    8 October 2013 09: 36
    To critics of the article. And perhaps the lady gave the most accurate assessment of the article, which was written not for those who lived under socialism, but for those who know about it from Svanidze's programs and speeches from the current Guarantor's group. These, including the Guarantor himself, are naturally not interested in its restoration. However, the critics are unable to refute what is written in the article and they cannot offer anything else that could suit the majority of the country's population. Therefore, they immediately pass on to the personality of the author, writing him down as a whiner and from some kind of Budun into "orange revolutionaries". The usual cheap reception of persons who have no arguments. The only negative is the passage about the villainous murder of Stalin by Khrushchev. Here the author clearly gave free rein to fantasy.
  23. +3
    8 October 2013 09: 39
    Better late than never to understand what happened. Yes, in hindsight we are strong!
  24. +12
    8 October 2013 09: 48
    In Moscow, on the Forefront, you need to drive a stake firmly into the ground, and sharpen the upper end. Lubricate with lamb. And put on this Gorbachev M.S., also known as Mishan Mechny.
    1. vkrav
      +7
      8 October 2013 11: 01
      You suffer from humanism, dear ... Put the whole humpbacked family in a cage (sorry for gluing a pair of sneakers), and carry around Russia, let them, look people in the eyes ... Dreams, dreams ... and he’s afraid of dying, hell for him the VIP boiler is ready - right next to the fuck ... And no priests will pray this chmyr ...
    2. +3
      8 October 2013 12: 16
      Quote: Nagan
      In Moscow, on the Forefront, you need to drive a stake firmly into the ground,

      One stake does not get off .... Candidates, alas, enough ...
  25. 0
    8 October 2013 09: 52
    My previous post was purely in order to check how the people would plus such an uncomplicated proposal, which does not have any additional information or an analysis of any part of the article. And the information - here it is, below.
    What the author of the article forgot or did not consider it necessary to mention - the Decree of the Presidium of the USSR Armed Forces "On measures to overcome drunkenness and alcoholism and the eradication of moonshine" from, if memory serves, May 17, 1985. A couple of years before, Andropov had put things in order with draconian measures (and he did!), But did not issue such decrees. He was old, experienced, and extremely intelligent. I knew what to do and what not to do in any case. And Gorbachev, young, hot, eager to make the country happy, but having no special management experience, decided that he would surpass his teacher on the fly. But the experience of managing a combine is not at all like the experience of managing the KGB.
    It is not a shame to admit this, but the reality was as follows:
    1. The people drank. And not only the Russians, the Jews (although they had a reputation as intellectuals-teetotalers), and the Tatars (even though it seemed like Allah forbade them), and in general the whole fraternal family of nations, drank. Someone more, someone less, some "andropovka" and "agdam", some "ambassadorial" and "massandra", and some imported cognac-port wines (by the way, the real Port is not at all that fence paint 777, which it is not clear why they called the noble name "port"). And whoever wanted to drink, but could not buy (well, let's say late, the shops closed), they still got moonshine, tormo, BF glue, or exorbitantly from waiters or taxi drivers.
    2. The money supply was balanced by selling alcohol. A considerable part of the salaries paid by the state to workers returned back to the state through the wine and vodka trade. There were not enough consumer goods to pump out a lot of money, the concept of "scarcity" did not arise from scratch. The food was artificially cheapened, most likely lower than the cost, there was then the concept of "planned unprofitable enterprises", and this included almost the entire food industry and public transport. And things were done well then, in our family the lamp receiver "Baltika" of the 1940s and the refrigerator "Yuryuzan" from the early 1960s worked safely, so few people were eager to replace old but still working electrical household goods, furniture, dishes, and etc. This I mean that without "drunk" money it was impossible to balance the budget.
    1. 0
      8 October 2013 10: 06
      And the people were greatly complicated by the purchase of alcohol.
      Someone really began to drink less, but the question arose: what to spend the freed money on? And they began to buy ... well, in general, what could they put their eyes on. But the State Planning Commission did not plan these purchases. And the store shelves began to empty.
      Someone began to make money on the guise of speculating in alcohol. And these "unearned income" also began to put pressure on the mass of goods. And the store shelves began to empty even more.
      Someone went to bow to the moonshiners with those crumpled rubles, three or five that they could not spend in the liquor store. And for moonshiners, these crumpled pieces of paper were stacked in packs of crispy fifty and a hundred. And these crunchy pieces of paper also needed a way out. And the store shelves again began to empty even more.
      1. -4
        8 October 2013 10: 17
        And one more aspect. Due to the increase in the production of moonshine, sugar began to disappear from the sale. And the Soviet people were taught bitter experience, and began to stockpile non-perishable products. Grains and canned goods of all kinds, tea and coffee have disappeared or become deficient. And then they began to stockpile manufactured goods - stockings-socks, underwear, shirts.

        There is a saying: "Dad did not beat his son because he played, but because he was recouping." Here is Mishan, like that son. The budget has shaken - we will decide by "acceleration". Did not work? Let's start cooperatives. It has only become worse - it means the system is inert, does not allow to unfold. And then the idea of ​​"perestroika" was put forward. What happened next is history. But I don’t think that anyone, at least ever, will describe this story clearly, impartially, and truthfully. At least - not during the lifetime of those who saw it.
        1. +1
          8 October 2013 10: 22
          I apologize to everyone for the comment in many parts. The original text contained a completely harmless quote from Arkady Raikin, which the server did not want to miss. I had to figure out what kind of material was there that was inadmissible for publication. If any of the moderators or admins are interested in what was there, let me know, I'll send it through a PM.
          1. +5
            8 October 2013 11: 19
            Too down to earth you approached this story ... In your opinion: quit drinking - started eating? I found this era at a more or less mature age. I think this is just one of the factors that helped the hunchback in the collapse of the state. One of many. It is not worth delving into the topic. Enough has been written about this ... But, definitely, as they say: "it was a contract murder." Brzezinski and K applauded for a long time standing. "The best German" did his job brilliantly.
            1. +2
              8 October 2013 11: 29
              I think that there was no mechanism of control over the political elite of our state, which, with full trust of citizens and betrayal of individual members of its elite, led to the destruction of society and the collapse of the economy. Perhaps in our country mechanisms will be created to control the structures of power (executive and legislative) so that from now on there would not be such disasters in the Russian state.
              1. Yarosvet
                +4
                8 October 2013 13: 40
                Quote: ddmm09
                Perhaps in our country mechanisms for controlling power structures will be created

                The current government resists this primarily.
      2. +7
        8 October 2013 11: 20
        Nagan, about your version about alcohol ...
        Sorry, but do you have a more recent idea? At least take a look at the statistics of who drank how much then and now, and, most importantly, how much alcohol we produced. I lived during the USSR, I did not see empty shelves while our state existed as a whole. And there was plenty of money for those who wanted to have it. And earned honestly.
        The percentage of state revenue from alcohol turnover was quite low and drank much less than now. Similar stories about income from alcohol were also told about the Russian Empire before the revolution ... Although the causes of the crisis are completely different! .. I'm tired of listening to such lies.
  26. The comment was deleted.
  27. +3
    8 October 2013 10: 12
    Quote: mak210
    And how do you see it? And who will do it? The elites are quite happy with this state of affairs,

    The structure in Russia has traditionally changed by a revolutionary method, there is no other way, the elite are always satisfied with the current state of affairs, but here is the nuance, with his speech Medvedev, having made a curtsey towards business (this is about the fact that it is not necessary to save jobs at any cost) launched the process creating social tension, I do not think that he alone took it and came up with such a "brilliant" move, apparently this is the work of a tandem, so I get the impression that, consciously or not consciously, but society is beginning to lead to this process
    1. +3
      8 October 2013 12: 06
      The system in Russia has traditionally been changed by the revolutionary method, no other way has been given, the elites are always satisfied with the current state of things, but here’s the nuance, by his speech, Medvedev curtsied in the direction of business

      Yes, so far, only two times, but so that shocked the world.
      And with his curtsy MDA-aaa designated his masters, and, as a political figure, he was "kirdyk". Another question - how far is P ready to move in the direction of "STRONG RUSSIA"?
  28. grafrozow
    +3
    8 October 2013 10: 59
    And I will say so, having lost their head through their hair, they do not cry, Hitler was defeated !!! And the "native" CPSU fucked up the power !!! America, Heerika ... No need to look for pests in someone else's garden, let's look at ours !!!
  29. +7
    8 October 2013 11: 29
    The article is necessary, though long.
    She so people thought with his head. To distinguish the villains, including potential, which appear from the egoists rushing to power, clumsy, weak-tempered, intelligent talkers.
    In the Soviet Union there were a lot of stupid things. And now an order of magnitude more, but vile.
    1. grafrozow
      -6
      8 October 2013 12: 00
      Quote: My address
      The article is necessary, though long.
      She so people thought with his head. To distinguish the villains, including potential, which appear from the egoists rushing to power, clumsy, weak-tempered, intelligent talkers.
      You, by chance, not a former political officer? Slogans to the people before zh .... Stop feeding a bright future !!!! Real business, what?
      1. Yarosvet
        +3
        8 October 2013 13: 46
        Quote: grafrozow
        What are the real things?

        Real affairs today are completely antagonistic to the principles of socialism / communism.

        Anyone who believes that the collapse of the USSR destroyed the Union of States is wrong.

        1. grafrozow
          0
          8 October 2013 18: 05
          did not drink beer7
          1. Yarosvet
            +1
            8 October 2013 18: 56
            Regularly but not today hi
  30. +10
    8 October 2013 11: 41
    After reading the article, read the comments on it.
    It is strange that many did not see the essence.
    There is one truth in the article: all our achievements are trying to neutralize at all costs, what we are building is to destroy.
    For our country to develop, we must first destroy the traitors in power who are doing everything so that we remain in a crisis.
    This is how to heat the stove with money. It seems to be warm, but very stupid. So we are: we are trying to build something, many are making serious efforts, and then some reptile, holding hundreds of billions in offshore, crosses all these efforts with one signature with a seal.
    We undertook to build a house from the roof, but we must start from the foundation.
    1. +3
      8 October 2013 12: 33
      silver_roman (2) UA Today, 11:41 AM _131008 / WTO
      After reading the article, read the comments on it.
      It is strange that many did not see the essence.
      Article there is one truth: all our achievements are trying to neutralize at all costs, what we are building is to destroy.
      That our country has developed, we must first destroy the traitors in power, who are doing everything so that we remain in a crisis.
      It is a how to heat the stove with money. It seems to be warm, but very stupid. So we are: we are trying to build something, many are making serious efforts, and then some reptile, holding hundreds of billions in offshore, crosses all these efforts with one signature with a seal.
      We undertook to build a house from the roof, but we must start from the foundation.


      Good afternoon, dear Roman!

      You're right, good an old good proverb, “Look at the root,” few people remember here.
      All take the collapse and about ** RANIA Union like a normal fait accompli NOT LAWYER for rebirth not revolutionaries who arrived “with foreign banknotes in their pockets” (Lenin, Trotsky, etc., “burners of life” in the West),

      and by US, the people of the USSR, directly BOTTOM

      without corrupt politicians, Guarantors of "no jurisdiction over wreckers and thieves" and a pack of "taxis" in the Kremlin, the State Duma, the Government, on the Lubyanka and the "official Kremlin appazitiya".
      1. grafrozow
        0
        8 October 2013 13: 06
        Quote: michajlo
        HAVING THE RIGHT to revival, not revolutionaries who arrived “with other people's banknotes in their pockets” (Lenin, Trotsky, etc., “burners of life” in the West),

        and by US, the people of the USSR, directly BOTTOM

        without corrupt politicians, Guarantors of "no jurisdiction over wreckers and thieves" and a pack of "taxis" in the Kremlin, the State Duma, the Government, on the Lubyanka and the "official Kremlin appazitiya".
        I would say to the peoples of the Russian Empire.
  31. 0
    8 October 2013 11: 58
    a lot has been written and not very convincing; the author just needs to determine it, to determine several factors — the unprofessional leadership of the team of the former first secretary of the regional committee, a short bird, stood at the helm of a huge country, its shortsightedness, conceit and intolerance (real, not in words critics) the manipulators took advantage, and the power of this woodpecker was like that of a king, if not more so, refusal to control top managers, transfer of payments in CMEA to dollars from a transfer ruble !!!, as a result - collapse of the CMEA economic system, collapse The USSR’s economic system was started by raising prices for raw materials and energy, without increasing the working capital of enterprises (economic), and then they started throwing, you won’t list all, the part is reflected in the article, but it’s drowning among the subjunctive mood, they were to blame for everything, of course all but stupidity.
  32. Ruslan_F38
    +6
    8 October 2013 12: 09
    The article is excellent, the author lucidly, practically on "fingers" explained to us how we could live without having come to power Gorbachev and Yeltsin and other thieves' trash. He showed that not everything is lost and much can be changed now, but on one condition - other people must rule the country, because the current rulers seem to be happy with everything.
    In other words, it turns out that if the USSR would not be broken now, then 80% of the Russian population would live 5 times better than they are now. Well, what would have happened if the most pessimistic forecast had come true (annual increase in 0%). Then you would live better 4 times. Agree - not bad either. Imagine, the salary in 4 would be higher than the current one, and this at current prices and without taking into account additional factors.
    - five times !!! Yes, even in two - this is a huge achievement!
  33. Ruslan_F38
    +1
    8 October 2013 12: 17
    Media, let the article be disseminated, put on the table with Putin and others - let people and the authorities get acquainted and draw conclusions!
    1. +1
      8 October 2013 14: 21
      Quote: Ruslan_F38
      Media, let the article be disseminated, put on the table with Putin and others - let people and the authorities get acquainted and draw conclusions!

      Putin and others need to replicate the work on the revolutions of 1905 and 1917. This will be more useful than this article. And then their scent has become dull, and look, people will soon become dusty and will begin to sprinkle the pitchfork in red.
  34. anushin10ru
    +2
    8 October 2013 12: 22
    There was no, no, and perhaps there would no longer be such a country as the USSR was in the world. An attempt to build a society of social justice, equal opportunities, and general welfare was first discredited from outside and with the help of domestic singers. Later, the children of the legendary heroes of socialism spat on their graves and betrayed their dream, destroying the country along the way. Author +, although lamenting for death The USSR is useless.
  35. goldfinger
    -1
    8 October 2013 12: 28
    From Minsk. The article is intended for fools, about 1985. birth and later. Minsk was supplied according to the first category, young people do not know what it is, but we also had a deficit in many ways. For 30 km from Minsk - a rolling ball. On the shelves of shops - cheap wine, cigarettes "Prima", concrete bread, "sprat in tomato". Perhaps this is the main asstiment. All the mech yards in the collective farms were packed with agricultural machinery, or rather its rusty remains. And so on for each item of the "successes" of "developed socialism." Oh, what can I say! The author is not "adequate", as young people say.
    1. grafrozow
      -2
      8 October 2013 13: 10
      Quote: goldfinger
      From Minsk. The article is intended for the absurd, about 1985. birth and later.

      I support. Who is ... country? Have you forgotten the lines of sausage?
      1. Misantrop
        +11
        8 October 2013 13: 28
        Quote: grafrozow
        Have you forgotten the lines of sausage?
        And the taste of that sausage and her price? Appear now SUCH and at the same PRICE, it is so scary to imagine what SIZE the line would be ... lol
        1. grafrozow
          -4
          8 October 2013 15: 05
          Quote: Misantrop
          And the taste of the sausage and its price? Appear now SUCH and at the same PRICE, it is so scary to imagine what SIZE the line would be.

          one more political officer, and in the Soviet Union it was the 1st grade, 2nd grade, and the 3rd grade is not a marriage !!! You ate it and thought everyone was happy. Don't you need to measure your pants at all, don’t have any money? - smoke shag! I I can afford cigarettes, I’m not Abromovich, but my hands aren’t growing out of priests, I don’t want to feed the granddaughter of the doctor’s doctor at 2.20. She deserves more.
          1. Misantrop
            +4
            8 October 2013 16: 59
            Quote: grafrozow
            another political officer
            For the scandal with the political officer and political department, I was once detained for 2 years. When he didn’t let the accidentally stumbled officer from our crew be “devoured” by the order of the Division's NachPO ... lol
            Quote: grafrozow
            I can afford cigarettes, I’m not Abromovich, but my hands aren’t growing from the priests, I don’t want to feed the granddaughter of the doctor’s doctor at 2.20.
            A filthy semblance of that sausage is now sold at 89 with a trifle of hryvnia per kg. I take it sometimes, purely nostalgic ...
            Quote: grafrozow
            no money? - smoke shag! I can afford cigarettes
            Let, etched tobacco essence and nicotine paper on American technology, striped flag in hand. I smoke collection tobacco collection in a bog oak pipe 5,5 thousand years old (with a certificate). Well, my hands do not need advertising, and so there are much more people who want to order than I have time to complete the order ... request
          2. 0
            8 October 2013 21: 44
            right count! by the way welcome hi I remember this doctoral))) and I still remember green hens for 1-90. only in childhood did not understand why they are green)))
            1. Misantrop
              +4
              8 October 2013 22: 12
              Quote: lonely
              I still remember green hens on 1-90. Only in childhood I did not understand why they are green)))
              Naturally, don't remember, because they were of a different color. They were also jokingly called "bluebirds" lol And even more so, you can’t remember how much broth and tasty of them was the broth. But doctors recommend draining the first water from modern hens in order not to get an overdose of antibiotics. And the broth smells like anything, but not chicken ... request
              1. +2
                9 October 2013 01: 06
                Quote: grafrozow
                I can afford cigarettes ...

                Quote: Misantrop
                I smoke a collection of tobacco collection in a bog oak tube 5,5 thousand years old (with a certificate)

                And I boast that I smoked my last cigarette on 30 of June 2009 of the year. Thank you immensely for giving up! And smoked 28 years ... hi
                1. -1
                  9 October 2013 22: 57
                  wassat how could you leave your 30 year old friend? wassat
  36. -3
    8 October 2013 12: 44
    If the USSR were alive, now there would be coupons for computers, everyone would stand in line for the Internet, AvtoVAZ would only produce VAZ 2110, four tank factories would completely overwhelm the country with tanks, the Ulyanovsk aircraft carrier would quietly rot in the raid of Vladivostok due to lack of coastal infrastructure for him, the internal troops would regularly carry out "counter-terrorist" operations in the Baltic States, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Nagorno-Karabakh, and at the next congress of the CPSU, Secretary General Yanaev, periodically forgetting his words, would promise by 2020. provide the whole country with cellular communication ...
  37. Peaceful military
    +7
    8 October 2013 12: 55
    Hmm ...
    You read it and such anger rises to the liberals. By God, I’m peaceful, but in this case I want to kill.
    Here, back in the ESSR, in my opinion in 1976, on the eve of the Olympics (and the Olympic Regatta was supposed to be held in Tallinn), Swiss experts conducted a study on the standard of living. So, the conclusion was that in terms of living we did not live much worse than neighboring Swedes and Finns. What was missing, like those, was the free sale of personal vehicles, Japanese equipment, rubbing jeans and LP records with all the popular musicians (although all this was somehow mined and something was produced at home). And, you still can’t move freely around the world without the need for service / work, but the USSR was so diverse that everything was there to go around, life was not enough. If this determines the quality of life, then in the coffin I saw such a life. The Liberastans, on the other hand, imposed precisely these animal standards of life. We know the result.
    Eh !!! angry
    1. +3
      8 October 2013 13: 04
      Peaceful Military EE Today, 12:55 PM New
      Hmm ...
      Read it and such anger rises against the liberals. By God, though I’m peaceful, but in this case you want to kill.


      Good afternoon, dear Andrew!
      I agree with you. good

      But still, we probably once upon a time (1976) still in the lessons of general military training in the 10th grade of high school, probably not for nothing was shown and taught disassemble SCS, three-ruler, AK and shoot from AK to the shooting range.

      And it is quite possible that one of the more intelligent and prudent even then, in the 70s, was preparing us for what would come in the 2010s and we again FRIENDLY:
      - "This is our last and decisive battle" !?


      For some reason in life, for some reason I don’t believe all events are an interconnected chain, just a lot of what we saw, we understand already after years or decades.
      1. Peaceful military
        +3
        8 October 2013 13: 29
        For some reason I don’t believe in chance in life, all events are an interconnected chain, just a lot of what we saw, we understand already after years or decades.

        Good afternoon, dear Mikhailo!
        And I absolutely agree with you.good
        How many public people, quite liberal liberal views, sharply and publicly dissociated themselves from them and left the camp of liberalists. For example, E. Fedorov, A. Wasserman, Yu. Polyakov, etc.
        hi
        1. 0
          8 October 2013 14: 05
          Peaceful Military EE Today, 13:29 _131008 / WTO
          ... I absolutely agree with you.good
          How many quite public people, quite liberal views, sharply and publicly dissociated themselves from them and left the camp of liberalists. For example, E. Fedorov, A. Wasserman, Yu. Polyakov, etc.


          Hello Andrei! Can we switch to YOU?

          Yes, you're right, many people have changed or overestimated their views and now they say and look at “old unshakable things” in a completely different way.
          From time to time I follow famous personalities and publicists, among whom are the talents of the pen and the living word, it's always worth listening to them.

          The only thing I'm in my mature years now a priori, I don’t believe anyone and do anything, but I cast doubt on everything, check from different sources, sometimes I find the necessary and missing “aspect or detail” not just in the words of “friends”, like like-minded people, but direct enemies / opponents !?

          Do not be offended by me for my judgment, I am interested in reading your remarks, but I see myself in them at the age of 20-30, when I had a lot of “blind naive faith and credulity”, which I regret only now.
          In the same way, you don’t have to believe me, because behind my long and twisted words, may be hidden “the second, vile design”? I advise you, re-check everything from different sources. Well, after brainstorming (sometimes even after months or years), you yourself will receive YOUR personal opinion, which may coincide or be different from others.

          Regarding the persons you mentioned and admiration for example by Fedorov, I can say that I know little to judge him, but so far I have nowhere in the post-USSR and post-ATS, I did not see an honest and binding politician, publicist and analyst, which, in addition to promises, also fulfills them!
          With the exception of Lukashenko, in recent years I have been his biggest supporter. good
          1. Peaceful military
            +2
            8 October 2013 15: 04
            Regarding the persons you mentioned and admiration of Fedorov, for example, I can say that I know little to judge him, but so far I have never seen an honest and binding politician, publicist or analyst anywhere in the post-USSR or post-ATS, which, in addition to promises, also fulfills them!
            With the exception of Lukashenko, in recent years I have been his biggest supporter.

            Hello again!smile
            Come on you.
            I did not speak about admiration. I just said about the transformation. Depth and sincerity, a matter of their conscience. But, stupid V.I. Ulyanov / Lenin argued that in order to achieve a result it is necessary to block with those who are not against you ...
            Alexander Grigorievich Lukashenko, much slandered by the liberals with their pads, really causes great respect for the consistency and the line itself. One concern, continuity.
            I advise you, re-check everything from different sources.

            Thanks for the advice!smile
            I, too, am no longer young, the 6th dozen is coming, so I do not judge it rashly.
            soldier
            1. +1
              8 October 2013 17: 31
              Hello Andrey!

              Sorry, but your photo "from a young age." hi

              I’m talking about your admiration, I wrote because of the tone of your Notes that “it’s the truth for you in the last resort”.

              You and I are almost the same age, let's talk through PS? smile
        2. grafrozow
          -1
          8 October 2013 15: 41
          Quote: Peaceful military
          How many public people, quite liberal liberal views, sharply and publicly dissociated themselves from them and left the camp of liberalists. For example, E. Fedorov, A. Wasserman, Yu. Polyakov, etc.
          and you don’t want a static candidate?
          1. Peaceful military
            +1
            8 October 2013 15: 46
            and you don’t want a static candidate?

            What candidate?
            Yes and poke not the same, we didn’t drink to the Brudershaft.
            hi
            1. grafrozow
              0
              8 October 2013 17: 40
              Andrew, in the ass back, your slogan.
              1. Peaceful military
                +2
                8 October 2013 20: 55
                Andrew, in the ass back, your slogan.

                Alexander, where did I say what to return "in the ass"? Where did the author say what to return "in the ass"?
                You and others like you have a strange dislocation of the brain about current discussions about the USSR. You froze in a certain negative about the USSR model of collapse, not accepting either the previous, or the collapse accompanying, or the likelihood of another vector of the USSR DEVELOPMENT (as the author says, which I join).
                It’s not for me to correct this dislocation for you.
                The name, for example, Andrei, is capitalized. Does a brain dislocation really prevent this?
                hi
      2. grafrozow
        +2
        8 October 2013 15: 18
        Quote: michajlo
        still in the lessons of general military training in the 10th grade of high school,
        actually called NVP, hi
        1. 0
          8 October 2013 15: 30
          grafrozow (6) RU Today, 15:18 PM ↑ New

          Quote: michajlo
          still in the lessons of general military training in the 10th grade of high school,
          actually called NVP, hi


          Thank you for clarifying, you are right! Yes, it was CWP for the guys, and the girls had "nursing courses" or what was their correct name? Could you tell?

          By the way, can I recall my request to the Admins to urgently give out “bulletproof vests and helmets” to forum users?

          Or is it better to write to you, sitting in a trench?
    2. grafrozow
      -1
      8 October 2013 13: 24
      Quote: Peaceful military
      You read it and such anger rises to the liberals. By God, I’m peaceful, but in this case I want to kill.

      Quote: Peaceful military
      . And, you still can’t move freely around the world without the need for service / work, but the USSR was so diverse that it was all over there, there wasn’t enough life
      Andrei, say a halva a hundred times, your mouth won’t be sweeter, I’m just sorry for you ... Have you seen the streets without cigarette butts and pieces of ice cream? And the sidewalks washed with shampoo? No, we’ll sit in shit, to the very throat, scream, we’re advanced !!!!! The train left ... hi We’ll no longer be slaves of the CPSU. I will take SVD into my hands, and I’ll give a neighbor ...
      1. Peaceful military
        +3
        8 October 2013 13: 35
        I'm just sorry for you.

        Mercy Alexander!
        I do not need your "pity". You better have pity on yourself, with your views.
        hi
        1. grafrozow
          +1
          8 October 2013 17: 47
          Not views, opportunities ...
          Quote: Peaceful military
          Mercy Alexander!
          I do not need your "pity". You better have pity on yourself, with your views.
      2. +1
        8 October 2013 14: 34
        grafrozow (6) RU Today, 13:24 _131008 / WTO
        ... Have you seen the streets without cigarette butts and pieces of ice cream? And the sidewalks washed with shampoo? No, we’ll sit in shit, to the very throat, scream, we’re advanced !!!!! The train left ... hi We will no longer be slaves of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union. I will pick up the SVD and give it to my neighbor ...

        Good day to you!

        In the photo you look good with your spouse and I wish you and your family all the best! good

        But regarding your phrase that "the CPSU Central Committee was responsible for the dirt and cigarette butts on the spattered sidewalk ?!" do you remember the old proverb "Purely not where they clean and where they do not litter"?

        You have the right to use any means to protect your family and your views.

        But after your words “about your SVD”, what am I behind the monitor and “wear a helmet and body armor” to continue the discussion with you and similar apt “Suvorov arrows”?

        By the way, admins, where are you? request
        If you understand these phrases (about SVD) as normal, then when will you start issuing personal protective equipment? I have a civilian, they are not there yet. what
        1. grafrozow
          +1
          8 October 2013 17: 54
          Mikhailo, you are quickly moving from corporal to general of the Tashkent front.
          1. +2
            8 October 2013 19: 08
            grafrozow (6) RU Today, 17:54 PM ↑ New
            Mikhailo, you are quickly moving from corporal to general of the Tashkent front.


            Hello "nameless nickname"!

            Yes, if my "virtual stripes" are an eyesore, scribble some "cart to Admins" in the spirit of the fact that here someone has the audacity to "express their own views" when specifying their last name, first name and photo, and from others wants to learn the mind mind!

            And what they say with their old-fashioned way of "open discussion" spoils all the brilliant results of the "departments of agitprop and disinformation", achieved so far by the "friendly chorus" of secret nameless fighters of trolling and rudeness,
            - glorifying "the Russian power aligarhoff with non-Russian surnames and the Kremlin steers".

            To me, honestly respected nickname with a nice appearance, the hooks are not the main thing.
            If you envy me, write a petition addressed to the Admins, I will agree without hesitation, even though all "my stars" on your epaulettes can be dropped without specifying the previous owner!

            I'm not greedy, I do not need cheap fame.

            And what about your skill with firearms (SVD)? How, can I debate with you just like that, or do I still have to demand a "helmet and body armor" from the Admins to equalize "chances of survival"?

            I have the honor, Mikhailo. hi
      3. Misantrop
        +5
        8 October 2013 14: 38
        Quote: grafrozow
        and I’ll give a neighbor ...
        I have no doubt. And he will have you on the street clean with shampoo ... If you continue to listen to Western advisers you will not stop lol
        Quote: grafrozow
        Have you seen the streets without cigarette butts and pieces of ice cream?

        And there are many such streets there, as a percentage of the total? Although not washed, but not very dirty, I agree. So it's not a lane in hell that knows which hole, but the center of Paris (do you recognize the arch?)
      4. -3
        8 October 2013 21: 46
        laughing and take me to the detachment count.
    3. grafrozow
      0
      8 October 2013 15: 14
      Quote: Peaceful military
      You read it and such anger rises to the liberals. By God, I’m peaceful, but in this case I want to kill.
      So come, the smoke of the fatherland is sweet .... The tongue is ringing-not to shed blood.
      1. Peaceful military
        +3
        8 October 2013 15: 39
        So come, the smoke of the fatherland is sweet .... The tongue is ringing-not to shed blood.
        fool
        I'm already at home ...
        1. grafrozow
          -1
          8 October 2013 17: 58
          Which ????
          1. Peaceful military
            0
            8 October 2013 22: 37
            Which ????

            On one, on ONE.
  38. +9
    8 October 2013 13: 07
    Why do we remember CCCP?
    Yes, because in the present we do not live, but vegetate.
    Why do we remember Stalin?
    Yes, because we do not need thieves in power.
    West united and sucked us like a spider fly. Natural wealth sold for dollars and the same dollars (the Stabilization Fund) feed the "foreign land". And now they are afraid that Russia may recreate the “USSR”. We will regain strength and not allow ourselves to be robbed.
    And without looting (creating maximum profit), a capitalist economy cannot exist. The USSR would not collapse, the West would collapse.
    PS The collapse of the Soviet Union can only be seen as a defeat for all of humanity.
    1. -5
      8 October 2013 13: 51
      In Union times, the Russian Federation (with the exception of Moscow, Leningrad and several closed cities) lived worst of all in the USSR. Not only worse than Ukraine or the Baltic states, but much worse than Georgia, Moldova and Uzbekistan. This is a fact, and I remember it very well. We still need to figure it out - when Russia was robbed more, then or now. Personally, I don’t need empty shelves again in the shops of the Russian province where I was born, grew up and now live. I admit (and even know) that in Ukraine during the USSR it was different. But what am I doing?
      1. -1
        8 October 2013 14: 05
        And you minus, minus, comrade communists ...
        There is nothing to cover the truth. Only minus quietly and remains. )))
        1. +3
          8 October 2013 14: 21
          Sour SU Today, 14:05 ↑ New
          And you minus, minus, comrade communists ...
          There is nothing to cover the truth. Only minus quietly and remains. )))


          Good afternoon, dear "nameless nickname"!

          I am minus you out in the open, not embarrassed that we are with you “An unnamed fighter for truth” what , we have different views on the history of the USSR.

          For example, I, too, was a communist from 1978 to 1991, since then I have only been b / p. And I'm not ashamed of the fact that I was a member of the party.
          But I am ashamed for the fact that I blindly believed everything in my youth, and the instructions and statements of the party apparatus did not cast doubt and did not ask everyone, “Why is this this way and that?”, Although I had to do this more and more often. fool

          Sincerely. Mikhailo. hi
          1. -5
            8 October 2013 14: 37
            Good afternoon, familyless Mikhailo!
            And yet you can only minus and can, even if openly, even if hidden. But to explain why my native Russian province under you Communists lived worse than anyone else in the USSR, here you are modestly silent. Because there is not a word about this in your Red Book quotes.
            I remember very well the full shelves of shops in Ukrainian and Belarusian cities. I saw two-story Georgian mansions. And I remember Russian stores, where there was nothing but canned fish and "chatter".
            The "fraternal peoples" explained it quite simply - Russian lazy people and drunkards, therefore, they live like that. At the same time, the Russians were accused of all sins.
            Personally, I live normally, and I do not want my children and grandchildren to feed the Russophobic darmedomedians. And this is exactly what you want, comrades "supporters of brotherhood and unity."
            And you, communists, hate Russia with the fiercest hatred. For you, it is "oligarchic, Putin-Medvedev," and so on. You would gladly spend it at the expense of building another rotten empire, where everyone lives at the expense of Russia, but at the same time she is cursed, ridiculed and accused of everything.
            Do not be your way.
            1. +2
              8 October 2013 14: 55
              Sour SU Today, 14:37, 131008 / WTO New

              Good afternoon, familyless Mikhailo!
              And yet you can only minus and can, even if openly, even if hidden. But to explain why my native Russian province under you Communists lived worse than anyone else in the USSR, here you are modestly silent. Because there is not a word about this in your Red Book quotes. I remember very well the full shelves of shops in Ukrainian and Belarusian cities. I saw two-story Georgian mansions. And I remember Russian stores, where there was nothing but canned fish and "chatter".
              The "fraternal peoples" explained it quite simply - Russian lazy people and drunkards, therefore, they live like that. At the same time, the Russians were accused of all sins.
              Personally, I live normally, and I do not want my children and grandchildren to feed the Russophobic darmedomedians. And this is exactly what you want, comrades "supporters of brotherhood and unity."
              And you Communists, you hate Russia with the most fierce hatred. For you, it is "oligarchic, Putin-Medvedev," and so on. You would gladly use it to build another rotten empire, where everyone lives at the expense of Russia, but curses it, ridiculed and blamed for everything. Do not be your way.


              Hello "nameless and nameless nickname / incognito"!

              It is visible to you “In operational tips” gave little data for sprinkling poisonous saliva "reform and adjustment"?
              Firstly, it turns out I have a surname, look in my profile and even a photo(Well, I'm not skinny, my face does not fit on the screen).
              You know, I’m used to it, especially when you say something to someone and especially criticize that you first need to introduce yourself.
              You know the remnants of old-regime education.

              Firstly, in addition to “drunk and dirty Russia,” why from it to my native Subcarpathian Russia (current Transcarpathia) came, lived and worked engineers, technicians, teachers, doctors and many others. I'm not talking about other outskirts of the "great and mighty", there were much more of them.

              Secondly, if you criticize people who wish Russia wealth and prosperity, because only STRONG and ONE Russia can be the CENTER of the new Union-2, you accept as "fierce hatred"?, so it’s just your organic rejection all who do not scream without hesitation
              “Hurray to oligarchs with non-Russian surnames and Kremlin taxis!”

              Thirdly, the last request to you: “Open the face of Gyulchatay?” love (film "The White Sun of the Desert").

              Sincerely, Mikhailo.
            2. goldfinger
              +2
              8 October 2013 17: 16
              From Minsk. Once, for the first time I came on a business trip to Kalinin. now Tver. While I got a job at the factory in a hotel, while that, behold, evening. Dark. I see the inscription Products. " I asked for a showcase for sausages, such as Krakow, cheese and something else. A dumb scene. The saleswomen ask, “Have you fallen from the moon?" And they look like a psycho. I am at the showcase - and there are two mountains of melted fat, pork, and beef. !!!! I said that I was from Minsk, I still remember the envy in their eyes. We sold sprats in tomato sauce, and I went to sleep. Then on business trips to Russia I always took a bunch of food with me. Peter, THERE WAS NOTHING FOR SALE FROM FOOD!
              All republics except the Russian Federation, the Azerbaijan SSR and the BSSR were subsidized! All! And the shield of Ukraine, and Georgia, EVERYTHING!
      2. +2
        8 October 2013 14: 33
        Quote: Sour
        We still need to figure it out - when Russia was robbed more, then or now. Personally, I do not need empty shelves again in the shops of the Russian province where I was born, grew up and now live. I admit (and even know) that in Ukraine during the USSR it was different. But what am I doing?

        Your opponents are comparing today's Russia with the USSR and of course they are partially right, now in something worse than then. But for some reason they believe that there can be no other way, or the dictate of the CPSU, or the dictate of the United Russia. For them, Yeltsin and Co., for some reason, are "liberals", and all after 1991. they call it democracy, absolutely not realizing that nothing has really changed, the new nomenclature repeats its predecessors in many ways, only more brutal. There was no democracy in Russia, if before 1993. there was hope, but the events of 20 years ago put an end to them. The fact that people look into the past is a sign that they do not see the future.
  39. Unknown
    -8
    8 October 2013 13: 23
    Some are yelling here: "LET'S RETURN SOCIALISM !!", and who remembers how it was achieved? 20 mln. killed, the people did not have the right to freely express themselves, executions, defeats in wars, hatred from the whole world !!!! IS THIS SMALL? !! fool fool fool
    1. +5
      8 October 2013 13: 47
      Unknown (2) RU Today, 13:23 _131008 / WTO New
      Some shout here: "LET'S RETURN SOCIALISM !!", and who remembers how it was achieved? 20 MILLION killed the people did not have the right to freely express themselves, executions, defeats in wars, hatred from the whole world !!!! IS IT REALLY SMALL? !! fool fool fool


      Good afternoon, dear "nameless nickname"!

      Let me ask you, “Where are the firewood from?” If you repeat the EXACT and DOCUMENTAL figures of the repressed in the USSR from such a reliable source as “uncut and unwashed Solzhenitsyn,” then I doubt your decency and goals here on the site.
      Is it not that “informer on co-prisoners” in his great work “The Gulag Archipelago”, which in a couple of months with the support of the Propaganda Department of the Central Committee of the CPPS (Yakovlev), became from the yellow manuscripts “A TRUE document and the CONSCIENCE of the Russian people” (after correction by specialists from the CIA and the KGB). And his staggering numbers of the repressed (with 143 million inhabitants in 1940) from the initial 60 MILLION, then regularly decreased to 40 million and then to and to 20 MILLION VICTIMS, after which the “self-styled conscience of the people”, safely moved to another world ...

      If you have other RELIABLE sources of this true figure, Give links and authors.

      According to the documents of the same NKVD / KGB, there were only 1,8 million of all repressed, including criminals ?! On the KGB website, you can find them, if you need me, I will find a link for you, I did not write it down last year.
    2. +8
      8 October 2013 14: 33
      the mind apparently does not fit, I will not say anything about 20 million - this is on the conscience of your teachers, as they believed, and how many died from the destruction of the USSR (not only from weapons, but from all kinds of surrogates, from poverty and hopelessness) and was not born, me too I will not count, I will not count those killed and tortured during the same period as "advanced" Japanese, in Asia, "noble"
      Anglo-Saxons in colonies all over the world, Poles in Ukraine and Belarus, Italians in Africa, "purebred" Germans, first in Germany, and then throughout Europe, I hope the "Holocaust", don't you deny? in Tel Aviv it's a crime. stay in the unknown further, pick the cockroaches that have been pushed into your head.
  40. 0
    8 October 2013 13: 43
    Quote: Nayhas
    If the USSR were alive, now there would be coupons for computers, everyone would stand in line for the Internet, AvtoVAZ would only produce VAZ 2110, four tank factories would completely overwhelm the country with tanks, the Ulyanovsk aircraft carrier would quietly rot in the raid of Vladivostok due to lack of coastal infrastructure for him, the internal troops would regularly carry out "counter-terrorist" operations in the Baltic States, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Nagorno-Karabakh, and at the next congress of the CPSU, Secretary General Yanaev, periodically forgetting his words, would promise by 2020. provide the whole country with cellular communication ...

    I agree completely, except for one point. The list of WHOs you have given is definitely not complete. For some reason, you didn’t name all the Central Asian republics, and you forgot western Ukraine. In general, there would be so many people serving in the VV that no one would be left for the rest of the armed forces.
    1. 0
      9 October 2013 04: 50
      Quote: Sour
      In general, there would be so many people serving in the VV that no one would be left for the rest of the armed forces.

      It is most important...
  41. anushin10ru
    +6
    8 October 2013 13: 49
    Unknown. By 1985, socialism was still under construction. 20 ml. those killed - trust anti-Soviet historians less. Free expression could only be made from anti-Soviet positions. Remember the "witch hunt" in the United States. Any state defends its ideological foundations, if any. Any resident of the USSR, having come to the regional committee, district committee, etc. with a complaint about the authorities holding them had a lot of chances to be heard. In reality, the USSR, even under Stalin, was a more democratic country than the Russian Federation. repression - any system is born in agony, like a man. Look at how capitalism was born in England in the 16th -17th century. Defeats in wars - what are you talking about? Hatred from the whole world - but what about the socialist camp, Vietnam, Cuba, etc. Do you really believe that everything was supported only by bayonets.










    .
    1. +3
      8 October 2013 14: 03
      I don’t believe in nonsense about "millions of victims of Stalin's repressions", because I know that this is all greatly exaggerated. But there is no need to replace one lie with another and tell good tales about the USSR. Any resident of the USSR coming to the regional committee, district committee, etc. with a complaint about the power of those holding it had a lot of chances to be heardIt is still possible to make an appointment anywhere, no more difficult than then. And there is no need to idealize those who sat in district and regional committees. If anything, Yeltsin, Chernomyrdin and Gaidar came from there, from the "district and regional committees", and not from the intelligence schools of the CIA.
  42. Pancreas
    +3
    8 October 2013 14: 00
    The article is good. It is necessary to use knowledge, it is necessary to act.
  43. vahatak
    -3
    8 October 2013 14: 10
    after the assassination of Stalin Khrushchev

    I did not read further, because the outcome is predictable.
  44. 0
    8 October 2013 14: 18
    If yes, if only
    Yes, mushrooms grew in my mouth,
    And it would not be a mouth
    And the whole garden!
    And it would not be necessary to plow or sow hi

    And if in the case, then having read to the reduction of the working week by Khrushchev from 48 to 40 hours, I realized what a storyteller-non-science fiction writer was. And after all, Google, the lender, has ...
  45. anushin10ru
    +5
    8 October 2013 14: 33
    Sour. If a resident of the USSR came with a complaint to local authorities about the injustice that he had committed at his household level from government officials, or to a trade union, then his application was examined in 99 out of 100 cases, and if his claims were fair, measures were most often taken. OF COURSE, IF HE HAD AN ATTEMPTED AT THE HOLY, IDEOLOGY, OR TOO RYANO WOULD CRITICIZE THE EXISTING ORDERS, then under Stalin he would go to camps, under Khrushchev and Brezhnev there would be a lot of problems in society, but the USSR would not be forgotten. Of course, it died in infancy, although the baby was strong and promising.
  46. 0
    8 October 2013 14: 39
    Quote: Nayhas
    The fact that people look to the past is a sign that they do not see the future.

    They do not see the present either. They live in a world of their own fantasies, and are ready to kill anyone who considers fantasies to be fantasies.
  47. 0
    8 October 2013 14: 43
    Quote: anushin10ru
    it was a new type of society, it died in infancy,

    Only for some reason this "infant" society has recently been increasingly ruled by decrepit old people.
    The USSR has evolved greatly over 70 years, and it cannot be said that it died in the bud.
    1. Yarosvet
      +1
      8 October 2013 15: 09
      Quote: Sour
      Only for some reason this "infant" society has recently been increasingly ruled by decrepit old people.

      Because the principle of the power of the Soviets was not implemented - the executive branch, unlike the original paradigm, remained out of the control of society (the same garbage now)
      1. +3
        8 October 2013 19: 15
        Quote: Yarosvet
        Because the principle of power of the Soviets was not implemented - the executive branch,

        He was at the very beginning and under I.V. Stalin. Remember the Council of People's Commissars. Actually I.V. Stalin wanted to completely distinguish between party power - ideological education and executive power - the economy. But Khrushchev broke everything and made the CPSU dominant in everything. Including in that in what absolutely did not understand - in economy, in agriculture, etc.
        1. Yarosvet
          +1
          8 October 2013 19: 33
          Quote: Egoza

          That's right - I answered Kisly's question about the reasons for the old people to be in power, and the reason for this was the lack of power of the Soviets in the post-Stalin USSR.
  48. anushin10ru
    +3
    8 October 2013 15: 16
    Sour. 70 years, by historical standards, the term is small. Yes, the ruling elite of the USSR degenerated as a result. The reasons for the death of the USSR are not in the advanced age of his last leaders, here the role of Gorbachev’s personality takes place. BUT AND WILL DEVELOP. By 1985, the USSR had no critical problems. Look, socialism in Cuba and the DPRK is still alive, whether it is a bad question or whether the question is different.
  49. +1
    8 October 2013 16: 35
    Empire will be reborn!
  50. +4
    8 October 2013 16: 43
    The article, in general, is not new ... I would agree with everything if I knew how the development of high-tech goods and the automotive industry for consumer consumption in the USSR would have happened, and these segments have grown a lot and outgrown the banal video twos, as if the curtailment of outdated production took place .. Therefore, it is difficult to judge by the standards of the 80s of the last century ... The structure of consumption and the way of life in general has changed ... Of course, some kind of smooth integration into the world economy had to be done, it was necessary to develop public corporatization and venture for high-tech business, it was necessary to use the great desire of people to earn money ... But our "Heb" clothes preferred to engage in Chubaistization of everything and everyone, and everyone shouts about the inviolability of the results of "privatization" ... By the way, I really like China in many ways, for example, in Shanghai, with incomparable on a Moscow scale (twice as large), transport is three times cheaper, a lot of hotels of different levels, awesome roads and buildings ... And we have capitalism up to its ears in shit ...
  51. kaktus
    +4
    8 October 2013 16: 43
    the author did not mention free education at all levels, free medicine (well, okay, without tomographs) Yes
  52. Yarosvet
    +2
    8 October 2013 16: 45
    Quote: Peaceful military
    How many public people, quite liberal liberal views, sharply and publicly dissociated themselves from them and left the camp of liberalists. For example, E. Fedorov, A. Wasserman, Yu. Polyakov, etc.

    Oh yes, the military man - he blacklisted me and again Chubais’s blabbermouth is advertising Fedorov laughing
  53. Avenger711
    +2
    8 October 2013 16: 54
    There has been a shortage here in Tatarstan since 1982. And in general, the problem apparently dates back to the closure of cooperatives by Khrushchev in 1960. Even if not elite, but expanded consumption such as a variety of clothes, toys, cakes, etc. hung on them.

    Regarding the fact that our planes were being bought more and more, it is interesting to know why they stopped buying them in the 90s, but I would not blame everything on foreign agents, because at the expense of the Su-30 for India and the Su-27 for China, Irkut and KNAAPO survived. UVZ successfully transported hundreds of tanks to India. In the 90s, the appearance of the GAZelle naturally put an end to imported minibuses and delivery vehicles. At the same time, medium-sized ZIL and GAZ trucks have become rare on the roads, the new 3-ton Valdai is also rare, but KAMAZ is in trouble. What is typical is that the distribution of trucks in the world is just like this, there are a lot of delivery and heavy trucks, and almost no one needs 3-5 tons. Simply, the weak sides of Soviet industry were suddenly thrown into the free market and collapsed there, and, most likely, even without a purposeful collapse. Well, except for the fact that for an economist who knows the real structure of the world market, this is easily predictable.
    1. +2
      8 October 2013 18: 51
      The average ZiL-type truck was in many ways archaic and an attribute of a militarized economy; even our roads were generally designed for no more than 6 tons per axle and no more than 20 vehicles per hour... The engine is gluttonous, it’s better to remain modestly silent... In general everything was a dead end in terms of the economy in terms of transporting 1 kg of cargo... In terms of food, even if it was possible to increase productivity, they could not ensure its processing and preservation... In general, there were no subtle mechanisms and regulators, and this was not some kind of a special drawback of socialism, but rather the ignorance of managers, who, both under socialism and under capitalism in Rus', are still of the same quality...
      1. lexe
        +2
        8 October 2013 19: 07
        which, both under socialism and under capitalism in Rus', are still of the same quality...

        Come on..
        We don’t have capitalism. Capitalism’s grin and its smile laughing radically change the physiognomy of the same person beyond recognition.
        So...don’t scold Russia. Russia has not yet smiled, but is only grinning in grimaces.
  54. goldfinger
    -2
    8 October 2013 17: 20
    From Minsk. Once, in the 80s, I went on a business trip to Kalinin for the first time. now Tver. While I got a job at the factory in a hotel, it’s still evening. It’s dark. I see the sign Products.” The store is probably pre-revolutionary, reputable. in the window he asked for sausages, like Krakow sausage, cheese and something else. Silent scene. The saleswomen ask, “Have you fallen from the moon?” And they look like you’re crazy. I look at the window - and there are two mountains of melted fat, pork and beef. AND ALL !!!! I said that I was from Minsk, I still remember the envy in their eyes. They sold sprats in tomato, and I went to bed. Then on business trips to Russia I always took a lot of food with me. In addition to the centers, Moscow and Peter, THERE WAS NOTHING FOOD ON SALE!
    All republics except the Russian Federation, AzSSR and BSSR were subsidized! All! And Ukraine, and Georgia, EVERYTHING! To hell with this kind of life! Old people whine about the Union because they were YOUNG, NOT SICK, RUNNED AFTER GIRLS AND DRINKED VODKA! AND THE GRASS WAS GREENER, AND THE WATER WAS WETTER!
    1. +1
      9 October 2013 00: 53
      Quote: goldfinger
      I went to the display window - and there were two mountains of rendered fat, pork and beef.

      goldfingerI often disagree with you (is it possible?), but not this time. Was in KML for Kuban in the village of Ilskaya, in 1983 and 1984. In the village store, in the refrigerated counters, there are two trapezoidal tubs with melted fat. And that’s all. The sellers seemed to be humorous; they laid out the slogans “Glory to the CPSU” and “Peace to the world” in the tubs with dill stems. Now the Soviet past is idealized.
  55. +7
    8 October 2013 17: 23
    Quote: Sour
    If the USSR were alive, now there would be coupons for computers, everyone would stand in line for the Internet, AvtoVAZ would only produce VAZ 2110, four tank factories would completely overwhelm the country with tanks, the Ulyanovsk aircraft carrier would quietly rot in the raid of Vladivostok due to lack of coastal infrastructure for him, the internal troops would regularly carry out "counter-terrorist" operations in the Baltic States, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Nagorno-Karabakh, and at the next congress of the CPSU, Secretary General Yanaev, periodically forgetting his words, would promise by 2020. provide the whole country with cellular communication ...

    Let it be known to you, but cellular communications were invented in the Soviet Union. Only government agencies used it (very expensive), but remember the first mobile phones. And the USSR was destroyed (it was destroyed, not collapsed itself) right on takeoff, just in time for the West.
    And regarding the military-industrial complex of the USSR, search on Google for the faces of the British in Farborough in 1984 at the sight of the “backward SU27 and Mig 29”
    Oh, another 10 years.
  56. lexe
    +1
    8 October 2013 17: 23
    Just ask yourself: Is a just society possible only under communism?
    Yes... stagnant-successful years will creep before your eyes... and with a free apartment and many social benefits and order! in the country.
    And I... have all this creeping before my eyes.
    I believe that communism was a great experiment - which led to a great result - FAILURE. And in science, any failure is also a success in finding the right path.
    Anyone who regrets the defeat of communism should understand that the commandments of communism are largely copied from Christian commandments. So can we trust the original source?
    Yes.. now they will come running and spit on the entire Christian idea up to the 100th generation - great thinkers-workers of little-known archives and books. But I stand by my opinion.
    But justice is not an invention of the communists. They have known about justice in Rus' for a long time
    I regret that the USSR collapsed in this way. The Russian people were thrown out as if from a hospital - to die for the amusement of everyone - and that was truly! Bolshevik decision because people like Chubais and Gaidar are also Bolsheviks for me, but of a new type.

    Well, the USSR simply had to create something good. Otherwise, how to hook people into returning to the bosom of the old experiment?
    ALAS..
    The Russian people have wised up and want more.
  57. +7
    8 October 2013 19: 08
    Our people were not ready to fight then, just as they are not ready to fight now.
    I don’t know whether it’s good or bad when it’s difficult to force people into revolution, into pogroms, into chaos.
    I was surprised by the story of the amazed foreigner who described the recent “unrest” in Moscow. His mind could not understand why crowds of protesting people moving along the street did not destroy everything in their path, but tried to get around without hitting parked cars. Against the backdrop of the protests in Greece, this looked incomprehensible! Protest like that!
    But I think that protest and hooliganism are two different things and the intelligence of the Russian people is their happiness and their misfortune at the same time. We are very inert. But I don't think it's bad. This speaks of the stability of the nation’s psyche and strong crisis resistance. I don’t want to seem like a person who is satisfied with everything that happens in the country. Quite the contrary! The overwhelming majority of processes do not suit me! But what displeases me even more is the breakdown into civil war, chaos and final collapse! I believe that what we destroyed to the ground in 1917 was enough, and to destroy it again in 1991 was criminal. I am convinced that the most just society was built in the Soviet Union. It was not ideal, but there was no alternative. The mistakes in the economy were not global and easily corrected. We were simply unlucky with the leader during this period.
    And communism... Let it be a distant goal! Whom did this goal interfere with?
  58. +1
    8 October 2013 19: 11
    Quote: goldfinger
    From Minsk. Once, in the 80s, I went on a business trip to Kalinin for the first time. now Tver. While I got a job at the factory in a hotel, it’s still evening. It’s dark. I see the sign Products.” The store is probably pre-revolutionary, reputable. in the window he asked for sausages, like Krakow sausage, cheese and something else. Silent scene. The saleswomen ask, “Have you fallen from the moon?” And they look like you’re crazy. I look at the window - and there are two mountains of melted fat, pork and beef. AND ALL !!!! I said that I was from Minsk, I still remember the envy in their eyes. They sold sprats in tomato, and I went to bed. Then on business trips to Russia I always took a lot of food with me. In addition to the centers, Moscow and Peter, THERE WAS NOTHING FOOD ON SALE!
    All republics except the Russian Federation, AzSSR and BSSR were subsidized! All! And Ukraine, and Georgia, EVERYTHING! To hell with this kind of life! Old people whine about the Union because they were YOUNG, NOT SICK, RUNNED AFTER GIRLS AND DRINKED VODKA! AND THE GRASS WAS GREENER, AND THE WATER WAS WETTER!

    AT THE VERY POINT! My dad also went on business trips during Soviet times - and I always remember how his mother always packed a bunch of food for him - all kinds of canned food. I also remember his stories about provincial hotels and the conditions in them, when he woke up to a rat crawling on him!
    1. +2
      8 October 2013 19: 15
      Now there are a lot of business trips where things didn’t get any better! wink
  59. +1
    8 October 2013 19: 12
    I recommend reading Yasin E.G. Russian economy. Origins and panorama of market reforms.
  60. alexeyal
    +2
    8 October 2013 19: 31
    Remembering the USSR.
    Post-war Stalinist Soviet Union. I assure you, if you did not live in that era, you will read a ton of new information. Prices, salaries of the time, incentive system. Stalin's price cuts, the size of the scholarships of the time, and more.
    http://nstarikov.ru/blog/23233
    http://nstarikov.ru/blog/23246
  61. +1
    8 October 2013 19: 53
    Quote: Lexi
    I believe that communism was a great experiment - which led to a great result - FAILURE.

    Wait a minute, to claim that communism ended in failure, you must first achieve it, which in fact was not done, the main sign of achieving communism is the abolition of the monetary system
    1. lexe
      0
      8 October 2013 21: 32
      Wait a minute, to claim that communism ended in failure, you must first achieve it, which in fact was not done, the main sign of achieving communism is the abolition of the monetary system


      Yes, it will be abolished soon anyway, and without any communism. While communism was beneficial, they stuck to it (well, we need to explain to the masses that a pick and a shovel are the most advanced means of labor)
      So you haven’t realized yet that communism was built in the USSR laughing but they gossiped about money for the sake of conspiracy.
      My opinion is that the maximum development of society was under Brezhnev. And where is it higher? It was the maximum ceiling. Higher is only paradise, with universal love and equality. Then you should become a Christian. I will approve of your choice.
      It’s a mystery to me why the communists cling to Stalin
      after all, they lived best under Brezhnev! Such is the confusion in their heads. Tsar Leonid might have been pushed through by fellow communists laughing
      Oh yes... Leonid Ilyich was a drunk. But he did the job and let the people live.
      And also the communists...maybe you will first build your own paradise in the USA, Europe and other countries? I would really like to see portraits of Stalin in the offices of their heads of state. Sincerely.
      And then report back to our homeland about the results of the experiment. Are we laboratory mice?
      The experiment will go well for them - the Russian people will greet you with bread and salt laughing
  62. stranik72
    0
    8 October 2013 20: 23
    The article is about nothing. Already in the mid-90s, comments appeared from “our” former, and now their, citizens, who occupied, among other things, not very high positions in the State Planning Committee and ministries of the USSR. There they described how they ensured counter transportation, increased the quantity of meat shipped, etc., to the capitals of the union republics, among others, how the export of grain and milk was artificially slowed down, etc. In general, the USSR collapsed not only because tagged and EBN appeared, everything After all, corruption and weakness, including in law enforcement agencies, was the basis on which the citizens of EBN Gorbachev and many like them grew up, so this is perhaps Russia’s path to the “future.”
  63. Bumbik
    -4
    8 October 2013 20: 26
    The civilized world left the reserve of communism in North Korea as a warning to the whole world, they say, look to what “heights” communist power can mutate.
    1. +2
      8 October 2013 21: 12
      A poor country with virtually no land created “sledgehammers” for both its southern neighbor and Japan. Almost alone.
      PS I don’t want to live there, but it’s impressive
  64. +5
    8 October 2013 20: 50
    And meanwhile:

    Medvedev: Russia can become a world leader in dairy production


    Russia can become the world's leading producer of dairy products. This was stated by Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev.

    “We are able to feed ourselves and provide livestock products. We have every chance to become one of the world's leading producers of dairy products. This is not a figure of speech, this is exactly the case,” RIA Novosti quotes Medvedev as saying. “Russia annually produces just over 30 million tons of milk,” the prime minister said, adding that the federal budget allocated about 100 billion rubles to support dairy farming.


    How infuriating I am with statements like this from this clown. That's it!
    Natural clown.
    Because just yesterday there was a program on RBC devoted to this very issue.
    And experts unanimously stated that this year, for a number of reasons, there is a huge shortage of milk.
    I think that as a result of the activities of such hands-drivers as our Dimon.
    I don’t understand what keeps him in such a position, GDP.

    Similar leaders brought the Union to the brink...

    Sorry for offtopic.
    1. +2
      8 October 2013 21: 01
      This year there is no amount of feed, but there is no one to feed it to except Dimon.
  65. -2
    8 October 2013 20: 52
    I can’t understand why an empty set of slogans, incomprehensible numbers and just cliches is being discussed so furiously?
    I responded above about the workweek mentioned twice - author negative - I have no words.
    About meat weighing 69 kilos on the nose - the author is either deliberately lying, or, again - negative - there is not meat, but meat and OFF-PRODUCTS. Moreover, 69 kg includes everything that moves, except fish (they could also include seals). But the potential enemy’s numbers do not contain not only offal, but also poultry meat. But the dreamer accuser doesn’t care.
    And so it is everywhere - complete misunderstanding and conclusions at the level of a fifth-grader at a auxiliary school.
  66. +1
    8 October 2013 21: 02
    Quote: Bumbik
    The civilized world left the reserve of communism in North Korea as a warning to the whole world, they say, look to what “heights” communist power can mutate.

    Not only that, you can fly to Cuba while the regime is still in place there.
    1. +2
      8 October 2013 21: 06
      It’s more difficult with Cuba - they have a special mentality - yes, lazy Arabs are on vacation. But at the same time, medicine, even without the help of the collapsed Union, continues to remain the most advanced in the region - without oil, gas, coal and other Divine buns!
      PS!!!!!! But they know how to fight - Grenada alone is worth it!
      VIVA CUBA!!! VIVA FIDEL!!!
      I respect these people. dot
  67. Uhe
    Uhe
    +5
    8 October 2013 21: 21
    The USSR is the pinnacle of Russian - and indeed human - civilization. Inhumans and other Russophobes hate everything human, so they destroyed the best state on Earth.

    One way or another, we will return to socialism; humanity has no other choice, because capitalism and other cannibalistic formations lead humanity to death and self-destruction.
  68. +2
    8 October 2013 21: 26
    Quote: nikcris
    It’s more difficult with Cuba - they have a special mentality - yes, lazy Arabs are on vacation. But at the same time, medicine, even without the help of the collapsed Union, continues to remain the most advanced in the region - without oil, gas, coal and other Divine buns!
    PS!!!!!! But they know how to fight - Grenada alone is worth it!
    VIVA CUBA!!! VIVA FIDEL!!!
    I respect these people. dot

    Well, they have already begun to produce oil with the help of Venezuela. This does not cover all needs, but still..
  69. 0
    8 October 2013 21: 27
    By the way, no one was bothered by the thought that if the USSR were preserved, not only Caucasians, but also the rest of the population of 14 republics would have rights similar to yours without the responsibilities. If a playful hand immediately reaches out to the minus, google how many there are and how many Russians.
  70. 0
    8 October 2013 21: 31
    And as for fighting - now it seems that the generation there is not the same - lazy, greedy for money... So this regime will not last long.
    1. +2
      8 October 2013 21: 49
      If you are talking about Cuba, then it has always been lazy - this is usually for areas with a favorable climate and accessible resources. This, a priori, is typical for ALL people.
      PS Not only that. When I hear that tiring exercise increases tone and so on, I look at a cat and a dog and am amazed - I have never seen that after eating they were engaged in physical exercise. And when they don’t devour it, it’s even rarer fellow
  71. +4
    8 October 2013 21: 50
    I think that in order to live well, everyone should work for the good of their Fatherland. then everything will be in order.

    P.S. the word work applies to everyone. from A to Z.
  72. +1
    8 October 2013 22: 52
    Pay attention to the source where the article was taken from. This is the dream of Svidomo Ukrainians and Russian freebies; they had a good time in the USSR, you see. But it was HORRIBLE for the Russian peasant in the USSR.
    1. +3
      8 October 2013 23: 36
      I am from Penza peasants. Russians. I don’t remember anything bad in the memories of my ancestors, except war. From the chaotic - in the photographs everyone is dressed and combed, fears overheard in childhood about the lack of meat are suddenly compensated by the comments of the mother - a saleswoman in the village store - black caviar is molding in a barrel, and something needs to be done.. Photo of the village store - vodka-crabs-port- bunches of fish - jars with something. Late fifties. This is all in my family album. My father is there at the combine. I wasn't there yet.
  73. +2
    9 October 2013 00: 22
    But why this demagoguery “what would have happened”?, it doesn’t exist, so don’t bother fantasizing, we have what we have, whether anyone likes it or not, and we need to improve today’s life, and not stick our ass to the computer and be sad ...
    1. 0
      9 October 2013 00: 54
      Agree. Especially when such heresy from a penguin is discussed. Which even seriously criticize is a waste. There are big holes plugged with small ones.
  74. 0
    9 October 2013 07: 21
    After reading the article, for some reason I remembered the old Soviet film “Kalina Krasnaya,” where a choir of prisoners in a colony sings in a drawling voice: “There is no more returning to the old ways.” In my opinion, Soviet society was unstable both as a system in itself and as an environment for an individual. And like any unstable system, it blew itself up from the inside. At first, this system gave birth to monsters in the person of the top officials of the party and state. Then, with their help, it reached the final collapse of industry, agriculture and public life. Unfortunately, during the time following this collapse, the vast majority of the people did nothing but try to survive, often without thinking about the future. And now there is a certain understanding of everything and everyone. And it is important not to repeat those old mistakes.
    1. 0
      19 July 2017 16: 37
      Try not to change the oils and fluids in your car. And then tell your family that “the system exploded from the inside” and there is nothing to go on. It will be the same. After this, try to objectively assess your personal role as a “micro-Gorbachev.”
  75. +1
    18 October 2013 17: 15
    About the shortage of products (or rather the lack thereof) is complete nonsense! Personal experience: I studied at a secondary school in Rybinsk (Yaroslavl region) - an industrial center, 8 factories only under the union subordination (not counting 2 dozen republican and local subordination). 1964 (my 1st grade) before going to the store, my mother said take 300 grams of Vologda butter (on the counter there was just butter 3-60 rubles, Vologda 3-80, salted butter 3-50 and chocolate 3-40). 1974 - my 10th grade there is no butter in stores anymore!!! About meat, sausages - don’t even stutter!!! I entered the Leningrad University in the same year, 1974, and during the entire 5,5 years of my studies, while going on vacation I took home a full bag of food: meat, sausage, cheese, butter, the list goes on... So in Rybinsk at the “peak of stagnation” In the stores, apart from bread and cereals (and even then not all), and pasta there was not a damn thing! Here is socialism in all its glory!
    1. +2
      19 October 2013 11: 37
      Well, is it any better now: “capitalism in all its glory”?! All the stores are stocked with all sorts of products, but it’s disgusting to eat because the quality is very low. The fact that the range of products in villages and small towns was lower than in large or capital cities, yes, that was the case. But, in any case, their workmanship was much better than now.
    2. Misantrop
      0
      19 October 2013 11: 50
      Quote: nnz226
      About the shortage of products (or rather the lack thereof) is complete nonsense! Personal experience:
      This is not nonsense, but the actions of local authorities. More precisely, inaction. In Gorky in the 80s, there was also nothing on the shelves in the city except pies and beer. BUT But in the territories of numerous factories, the shelves were simply bursting with goods. If you work there, you'll get yourself overextended, dragging home a bag overflowing with groceries (and the prices, by the way, are ridiculous even at that time). We were there at the factory practice in Sormovo after the third year. So the coupons given to us in the foundry and the cadet 17 rubles 80 kopecks were simply gorged on. Before the end of the practice, half of the coupons were returned - they simply physically could not eat so much
  76. 0
    20 March 2017 09: 31
    If so, then it turns out that by simply returning to the principles of distribution that existed during the years of Soviet power, it is possible to almost double the standard of living of 2% of Russians

    nothing like this. the principles of distribution by the 70s had developed, firstly, archaic and irrational,
    and secondly, unfair. The RSFSR devoted almost 40% of its GDP to raising the living standards of other republics; Kazakhstan was also at a loss.
    Finally, the author of the article forgot something! The USSR actively invested profits in infrastructure and the creation of basic means of production. So it is far from a fact that the inhabitants of the USSR would live richer. But on the other hand, there was a chance to significantly improve what the state provides for free - schools, medicine, housing, etc.

    The issues of supply and hypocrisy in ideology, because of which the USSR ultimately collapsed, I am sure, could have been resolved easily if there had been a revision of the strange decisions that led to the crisis.
  77. 0
    19 July 2017 16: 30
    There was NO economic crisis in the USSR in 1985. If we draw an analogy with a transnational corporation (within which, by the way, the command-administrative system in its purest form is alive and well), then there was banal sabotage of the business plan by top managers of several branches, laziness of managers of several departments and, most importantly, destructive activity 2-3 members of the “board of directors”, aimed at paralyzing and preventing any reaction from the healthy part of this very “board”. All according to the scenario of a good company being drained, followed by the purchase of assets at significantly reduced prices. This was exactly the case when the thesis “No man, no problem,” attributed either to Stalin or Beria, this thesis was just in place as a guide to action. Meanwhile, the “destructors,” led by Gorby, played precisely according to this thesis, even to the point of promoting the defamation of individual state leaders under far-fetched pretexts, from “senile insanity” to “retrograde” and “heir to terrible repressions for which they do not want to repent.” ". This is how juvenile justice takes children away from their parents. And there was no General Deng Xiaoping who would simply shoot down the agents of influence. In 1985-1988, the USSR was on the verge of a new technological breakthrough - they were finally supposed to catch up with the “West” in microelectronics and computer engineering. In the country, faculties trained a whole mega-wave of microprocessor technology designers, technologists, radio engineers, programmers, with an eye on enterprises located in Ukraine and the Baltic states. 95% of these guys then went to trade in markets and commercial companies, stupidly selling computers. Only programmers found a successful job, and some were able to find a job in the oil and gas industry. Well, this is just a special case. And from the point of view of macro-economics, to maintain stability it was enough to slightly reduce military spending. And that's temporary. It would be more than enough. True, with one BUT: if there had not been an artificial shortage of food products and consumer goods (consumer goods), the logistics for which were deliberately overwhelmed, to stimulate the blows of a mental war from the worst ideological enemy. So it turned out that Gorby and his gang received silent approval from the disoriented population for the exchange of “missiles for jeans and chewing gum with Coca-Cola and a hamburger.”