Military Review

Under Ikan. The story of one song

64
Under Ikan. The story of one song

As a child, I happened to hear an old Cossack song:


In the wide steppe under Icahn
We were surrounded by an evil Kokan,
Three days, three nights with basurman
We had an unequal battle there.
Forward, forward, friends to fight,
We carry the death of the enemy with us! ...


For some reason she attracted attention, ran into the memory. Although much was not clear. What is Icahn? What is a “kokanets”? And the dashing chorus “forward, forward ...” seemed to be inconsistent with the content, because it was a question of retreat. Later it turned out that the song is quite famous, I came across its lyrics in songbooks, and it sounded somehow on the radio. But only when I had to do it myself history Cossacks, I learned that it was the song of the 2 of the Ural Cossack Regiment, and it reflected the bright, forgotten page of our glorious past. One of many forgotten and one of the brightest.

In the XIX century. The south-eastern outskirts of Russia were subjected to constant blows by Central Asian nomads. Some of them were subjects of the Khiva khanate, and some were Kokand. They drove away cattle, plundered villages and farms, plundered merchant caravans, drove people into slavery. Riots among the Kazakh tribes who accepted Russian citizenship were initiated. However, the Kazakh cattle and prisoners also did not disdain. Gangs of predators continuously kept Volga in the Urals, Orenburg region, Western Siberia. Khans of Khiva and Kokand did not want to appease their vassals, receiving considerable benefits from the trade in Russian slaves. Women replenished harem of nobles, boys turned into eunuchs. Added and intervention of the British. From India and Iran, their agents appeared in Central Asia, set up local monarchs against Russia, promised support, began deliveries weapons.

But Russia was also a mighty and majestic power, and she did not intend to endure the abduction of her subjects. In response to the raids, the Ural, Orenburg and Siberian Cossacks undertook searches in the steppe. However, this way it was possible to bring to order only the tribes that wandered near the borders. And the main predators felt invulnerable beyond the expanses of the vast steppes and deserts. Several attempts to organize military expeditions deep into Central Asia turned into big losses - from the heat, lack of water, food, in the winter - from frost and snowstorms.

Then Russia moved to a systematic offensive on the steppe. With 1845, far ahead of the Orenburg and Ural lines, one more began to be built - along the Turgai and Irgiz rivers. By 1847, our Cossacks and soldiers advanced to the shores of the Aral Sea, laying the Raimskoye fortification (Aralsk). In 1853, the Orenburg Governor-General and the ataman of the Urals Troops Perovsky with a corps of 5 thousand people took Ak-Meche, a Kokanda fortress, which was renamed Perovsky Fort. From it began to build Syrdarya line. And on the other flank of Central Asia, simultaneously with the Orenburg, the Siberian line advanced. Ayaguz fortress was built south of the Irtysh, then, even more southern, Kopal, in 1853, the Faithful (later a separate army of the Semirechensk was formed from the Cossacks of the 9 and 10 of the Siberian regiments).

But between the fortifications of Semirechye and Syrdarya line there was a gap in the 900 versts, through which the hostile tribes invaded. It was decided to close this “hole”. There were few troops here - the 11 of the Orenburg, the 12 of the Siberian linear battalions, the Cossacks of the Ural, Orenburg and Siberian Forces scattered over vast areas. But the people were fighting. In May, 1864 met each other two groups. From Perovsk - 1200 soldiers and Ural Cossacks with 10 guns under the command of Colonel Verevkin (the future ataman of the Ural Army). From Vernoy - 1500 soldiers and Siberian Cossacks with 4 guns under the command of General Chernyayev (the future commander in chief of the Serbian army, the national hero of Serbia).

The enemy fortresses of Turkestan, Aulie-Ata (Dzhambul), Chimkent fell. A Russian region was formed with the center in the city of Turkestan. But the Kokand Khan did not accept the loss. I decided to inflict a counterstrike immediately, until the Russians strengthened and strengthened. In the fortress of Turkestan there were about a thousand of our warriors - the Khan also gathered 14 thousand of selected cavalry, setting the task with a swift rush to reach the “capital” of the new area, suddenly attack and destroy the garrison. But the surprises of the Kokands failed. They ran into the Cossacks. The song about which we began the story was devoted to these events. Although in literary versions, which are published in songbooks, there was a gross error:

We walked, the shelves we have thinned,
The Cossack died bravely
They didn’t want to hear about captivity
And like a scythe, the enemy mowed us.


Apparently, the professional version of the handlers didn’t seem quite euphonious to the correct version “we walked, the ranks were thinner”. In fact, there were no “regiments” there. 4 (16) December 1864, near the village of Icahn, was met by an avalanche of Kokands from the only hundred of the Urals 2 regiment - 110 Cossacks with a 1 light gun commanded by Esaula Serov. More than 100 on one. But the Cossacks took the fight and began to break through to their own.

We retreated, he is behind us
Thousands walked in crowds
And he covered the steppe with bodies
And blood streamed.


Details of the battle then did not remember anyone. Around the whirlwind of enemy riders, attacked on the one hand, then on the other. A hundred fought back - not for the fortifications, but in the bare steppe. Shot, reflecting the attack. And having reflected, she threw herself at the checkers, scattered the enemies and stubbornly advanced to the location of our troops. Those who received a severe wound, did not keep themselves in the saddle — perished.

And having removed the head from the hero,
The villain knitted her saddle,
To boast after the fight,
How he fought with the recumbent.


The battle lasted three days. No breaks. For the Cossacks, the day was mixed up with the night, they lost track of time, fought in the environment - and made their way through this environment. December 6 (18) in the garrison of the fortress of Turkestan heard shots in the steppe. They sent a team of infantry, only two companies - to find out what was going on there. But it turned out that a hundred Cossacks so povybila, patted and exhausted the entire Kokand army, that she did not accept the new battle. I saw that the Russians were still suitable, turned around and rolled away ...

But far away already flashed
Native Russian bayonets,
And we breathed more freely
Cossacks crossed themselves.


From 110 heroes killed 52. Of those 58 who reached theirs, 11 remained unwounded. All the Cossacks became the Knights of St. George, and the 2-th Ural Regiment for the feat of hundreds of Serov was awarded the St. George standard.

Forward, forward, friends to fight,
We carry the death of the enemy with us!
Author:
Originator:
http://zavtra.ru/
64 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. Humen
    Humen 9 October 2013 08: 05
    +8
    Glorious pages of our history. Glory to the soldiers of Russia.
    1. smel
      smel 9 October 2013 12: 07
      +8
      Many thanks to the author for the story of our glorious history. It’s a pity that not everyone reads the historical section
      1. Walking
        Walking 9 October 2013 21: 33
        +2
        Our glorious past!
  2. Kostjan
    Kostjan 9 October 2013 08: 38
    +7
    Yeah, how many unknown pages in our history? And a big thanks to all those who open these pages. good
  3. Vladimirets
    Vladimirets 9 October 2013 09: 04
    +8
    It seems to me that six months ago there was an article about this, only more detailed. We have something to be proud of, it would be good for our descendants to be proud of.
    1. zvereok
      zvereok 9 October 2013 09: 22
      +5
      So far, with rare exceptions, they have something to curse us for.
      1. hsrey
        hsrey 9 October 2013 09: 44
        +2
        Exceptions are not so rare, although their number is not large.
        Even he can be proud that our country still has sovereignty
        1. Apollo
          Apollo 9 October 2013 10: 01
          +5
          stock footage in the topic
      2. Uralean
        Uralean 9 October 2013 11: 39
        +2
        You are absolutely right! This song was the anthem of the Ural Cossacks! They still sing it when they get together at their training camp. As a Ural Cossack, I am a descendant of the Ural Cossacks; I know very well what is sung in it and why the Ural people are proud of their mountain Cossacks. It was in all wars for more than 500 years that Cossacks waged wars with the Hordes, with the Kokansky, Khiva khans (Khiva campaigns of the Cossacks), and the Bukhara Emirs, doing everything to protect those borders, and so that there was peace in Russia .. But for what reason we CURSE, well, curse - it is said loudly, but there is something to scold us and blame! Because they failed to repulse the Red Barbarians, because they did not retain their military lands, which the Yaik (and since 1775) Ural Cossacks had more than 700 years old, and their lands were transferred to the Kyrgyz-Kaisatsky Horde (present-day Kazakhstan) Soviet Power , not sparing the Russian lands, for the sake of their ambitious. Yes, for a lot!
        1. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 10 October 2013 18: 49
          +1
          Quote: Ural
          It was in all wars for more than 500 years that Cossacks waged wars with the Hordes, with the Kokansky, Khiva khans (Khiva campaigns of the Cossacks), and the Bukhara Emirs, doing everything to protect those borders, and to have peace in Russia ..

          Nefig was to climb into the Kazakh steppes 500 years ago, and then into the Uzbek, Turkmen lands 150 years ago. You look, and you would not have to fight with the inhabitants of Central Asia.
          And there is no need to tell that allegedly Russian Cossacks 500 years ago came to the territory of Kazakhstan to defend the borders of Russia. Open the Atlas of Russian History and see where the borders of Russia were at that time. If your ancestors were told 500 years ago that they "defend the borders of the Russian state," they would be very surprised.
          There were no Russian slaves in the Central Asian markets. This is a favorite fantasy in Russia. Persian slaves were in bulk among all Khivans and Bukharians - the benefit of Persia "beyond the river", and thousands and thousands of kilometers had to be walked to the Russian village, and even across the lands of "Kirghiz-Kaisaks" were at odds. The Kazakhs did not engage in the slave trade, because the nomads do not really need slaves in the economy. The main occupation of the nomads is cattle breeding, and the cattle were watched by boys from their own family. Blacksmithing is the duty of every steppe dweller. Any "Kirghiz" forged the necessary equipment for himself.
          Russian slaves in singular quantities were only when in the 19th century tsarist power suddenly abolished the khanate in the Kazakh steppe and then the khan of Kenesary revolted. As a result of several successful battles, prisoners of war fell into his hands, which the Kazakhs did not need nafig, but they didn’t want to release them back, the pepper was clear. As a result, Kenesary gave them a khan of Khiva. And he, in turn, assigned them to serve in the Khiva army. When Russia invaded the Uzbek khanates and conquered them, these prisoners of war gained freedom and returned back to Russia. All of them are known by name and surname.
          Quote: Ural
          For not being able to fight back the Red Barbarians
          And were the white barbarians more glamorous and humane? The Reds even taught the simple Russian people to read and write, but tsarism did not suffer from such desires, no matter how they tried to embellish Russia of the 1910-1917 model. There was no mass education in Russia. The State Duma sluggishly discussed this issue and did not want to make a decision.
          1. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny 10 October 2013 18: 50
            0
            Quote: Ural
            because the Yaik (and since 1775) Ural Cossacks had not retained their military lands for more than 700 years, and their land was transferred to the Kirghiz-Kaisat Orda (present-day Kazakhstan), Soviet Power, not sparing the Russian lands, for its ambitian.

            Favorite topic of Russian cheers-patriots who do not know history))) This is Kazakh, and only Kazakh land. The fact that at one time among the Kazakh clans and steppe mounds settled several dozen fugitives from Russia, who later became the founding fathers of the Ural Cossacks, does not mean that these are Russian lands. Massively Russian people appeared there only at the end of the 19th century, but even then only in cities. And around these fast-growing cities were nomads. The eternal inhabitants of these lands. Since the time of the Scythians.
            Z.Y. The attack on Khiva and the subsequent occupation of the Central Asian (Uzbek, Turkmen) lands was only the beginning of a throw to India, which never came true. It ended on the Uigur land of the Qin Empire, where the Russian army also invaded, but then still returned.
            З.З.Ы. In the Khiva campaign, the Kazakhs (who were really called the Horde people in Russia until the 19th century), whom you entered on the same line with the Kokand and Khivans out of ignorance, also took part in the Khiva campaign. The Kazakhs and Kyrgyz became part of the empire voluntarily, and the Kazakhs volunteered in the Central Asian campaigns of the Russian army (in the documents they were called "dzhigits", "Kyrgyz"). Documents of that time usually write something like this: "Two hundred Orenburg Cossacks, one hundred soldiers and two hundred horsemen came out to meet with the detachment of Major So-and-so."
            1. with Yaika
              with Yaika 10 October 2013 22: 48
              +2
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              This is Kazakh, and only Kazakh land.

              Oh really ??? I often hear that from the Yenisei to the Dnieper are Kazakh lands. And the lands of the Nogai Khanate, and where you hear "Turkic", the zealous Kazakhs immediately ascribe all this to themselves ...

              Quote: Marek Rozny
              The fact that at one time among the Kazakh clans and steppe mounds settled several dozen fugitives from Russia, who later became the founding fathers of the Ural Cossacks, does not mean that these are Russian lands. Massively Russian people appeared there only at the end of the 19th century, but even then only in cities. And around these fast-growing cities were nomads.

              The Cossacks lived along the banks of the Yaik much earlier than the fugitive slaves arrived there ... The “fugitives” poured into the already existing community, adopting all the traditions of local residents, and not the fact that in one generation. Moreover, not all were taken ... Many remained "nonresident" - non-Cossacks!
              And the Cossacks set outposts throughout the Yaik! To protect their lands from the raid of hordes of nomads. Not only lived in the city ...
              1. Marek Rozny
                Marek Rozny 11 October 2013 09: 35
                +2
                Quote: from Yaik
                from Yenisei to the Dnieper - Kazakh lands

                do not distort. these are the lands of Turkic nomads, among whom were the direct ancestors of the Kazakhs. but Kazakhs simply do not call them "Kazakh" lands. "Kazakh lands" for Kazakhs is a strip of steppe lands from Astrakhan to Altai. at the same time, the Kazakhs are not going to raise the topic of a hypothetical return of "lost lands". they simply state the fact that these lands were Kazakh from the moment of the formation of the Kazakh nation and until recently.
                Quote: from Yaik
                And the lands of the Nogai Khanate, and where you hear "Turkic", the zealous Kazakhs immediately ascribe all this to themselves ...
                Well, don't forget that there are more Nogays among Kazakhs than those who are Nogays according to their passports. Roughly speaking, the Kazakh Junior Zhuz is essentially the Nogais. There is practically no cultural, religious or any other difference between Kazakhs and Nogays. In our country, the same akyns are considered both Kazakh and Nogai at the same time. "Cossack" (in the sense of "Kazakh") and "Nogai" (Nogay) are political ethnonyms. If I spat on Khan Zhanibek and went to Edyga, then I automatically became a Nogai. If the Nogan went to the neighboring Kazakh Khan, he was essentially called a Kazakh.
                The clan composition of the Kazakhs, Nogais and Karakalpaks is the same. Any Kazakh can easily find among the crowd of Nagays a really consanguineous relative, and vice versa - the Nogay / Karakalpak can always find a person of his own kind among the crowd of Kazakhs.
                Kazakhs, Nogais and Karakalpaks consider themselves a single people. Yes, Kazakh, Nogai, Karakalpak, Siberian-Tatar khans were constantly at enmity, fought war among themselves, but it really was one people. Just the khans are different. Yes, and the khans had each other blood relatives.
                When the Crimeans burned Moscow and Ivan the Terrible had to flee the capital, and then also offer the Crimeans shameful terms of reconciliation, the Kazakh khan Khaknazar (Aknazar - in Russian chronicles) sent ambassadors to Moscow with a proposal for a military alliance. Terrible, essno, agreed. The Kazakhs began to beat the Nogais and Siberians, who were on the side of the Crimeans. And thereby actually contributed to the further defeat of these uluses by Russian troops. They do not like to remember this page in Russia (since the idea is driven in that the Russian people themselves fought against the steppe people without anyone's help), but they don’t remember this in Kazakhstan, since the actions of the ambitious Haknazar actually look like a stab in the back to the native Nogais and Siberians.
          2. with Yaika
            with Yaika 10 October 2013 21: 14
            0
            Quote: Marek Rozny
            Nefig was to climb into the Kazakh steppes 500 years ago, and then into the Uzbek, Turkmen lands 150 years ago. You look, and you would not have to fight with the inhabitants of Central Asia

            With the same success, I can say that the nefig was to rub into the Priyaytsky steppes in those days, and remain in your Mogulistan.

            Quote: Marek Rozny

            Atlas on the history of Russia open and see where were the borders of Russia at that time. If your ancestors were told 500 years ago that they “protect the borders of the Russian state”, they would be very surprised.

            Geographically, Priyaytsky steppes (from the Caspian to the Ural Mountains) have a distance of about 500 versts. From the “stone” to the current location of the city of Orenburg there were Bashkirs, Bulgars, with whom you can’t get sick with pain. Yes, and Oirats often "rejuvenated" the nomadic tribes ... Here the remaining territory has always been inhabited by one or another people. In addition, the steppe was more convenient for movement than the woodland of the Southern Urals. It was in these steppe places that were along the Yaik, full of fish, and it was not the alien who mastered it, but the local people — Cossacks who were Orthodox. And importantly, they led a settled life, which helped to keep the defense, building more reliable outposts.
            The Yaitsky Cossacks - the third of the Cossack communities (after the Don and Cristals) - are self-organized (self-formed) communities addressed to the tsarist government (!!!) with a mutually beneficial offer, bestowing Yaik and surrounding lands in exchange for protecting the borders of Russia from raids from Asia . And now the correct remark: these lands did not belong to the Russian kingdom, and the tsar did not own them, and these were lands on which communities were already formed - Cossack communities!
            The nomadic tribes had a natural border - the Yaik River - which prevented the movement of herds that moved throughout the year from the northern sections of Yaik to Mangyshlak and beyond. Simulate the situation as herds in the amount of 5-6 thousand sheep move through the Yaik ??? How many would they swim to the opposite shore ??? And so - twice a year! This would be the second mess ... The river interfered with the normal nomadic movement, and brought extremeness in a measured nomadic life ... But if you add that there are forests on the banks of the Yaik, then driving to the other side would turn into a fun game: will I gather a herd in the forest, will I lose everyone? ??
            But the Trans-Ural territory was the steppe on which nomadic tribes passed at intervals of six months ... and not necessarily every year! The very place for pastures, even to Khiva itself ...
            1. Marek Rozny
              Marek Rozny 11 October 2013 11: 10
              +2
              Quote: from Yaika
              With the same success, I can say that the nefig was to rub into the Priyaytsky steppes in those days, and remain in your Mogulistan.

              Is it like no one lived on those lands before the Yaik Cossacks?))))))))) There lived other Kazakh clans, in Mogulistan - other Kazakh clans. There were no major migrations from Moghulistan to the Urals. On the contrary, from the Urals, a part of the "junior men" went to the south (the West Kazakh clan of Zhagalbayly, for example, also lives in the southern Dzhambul region).
              Quote: from Yaika
              It was in these steppe places that were along the Yaik, full of fish, and it was not the alien who mastered it, but the local people — Cossacks who were Orthodox.

              Cossacks - the local people? These are immigrants from the Don, according to the stories of Gugn. Or Russified Volga Tatars, as indicated by the name of the official founder of the Ural Cossacks - Matvey Meshcheryak. (I hope you know that the Meshcheryaks are an ancient Finno-Ugric substratum, nominated by nomads in the old days. Then some of them Russified and became Orthodox, and some joined the modern Kazan Tatars).
              They had to catch fish from need. There was no livestock of its own, bumping around with stronger neighbors is fraught. So they fished, hunted and mined salt. Only those who do not have livestock because of poverty due to poverty.
              Quote: from Yaika
              The nomadic tribes had a natural border - the Yaik River - which prevented the movement of herds that moved throughout the year from the northern sections of Yaik to Mangyshlak and beyond.

              For nomads, crossings were not a big problem.
              GAVERDOVSKY Ya. P. "REVIEW OF THE KIRGIZ-KAYSAK STEPE":
              "... These places at all seasons, more predominantly than other places of the Kirghiz steppe, are filled with nomads of the Chumekei, Kipchatka and other clans of the Middle and Lesser Horde. They are located mostly in the reeds or on the islands. Some remain on them in the middle of the lake and their cattle are driven through the ducts by swimming, and they themselves are transported on rafts called fats, which are made from reeds
              ".
              1. Marek Rozny
                Marek Rozny 11 October 2013 11: 11
                +1
                Well, kagbe is inconvenient to talk about, but sheep know how to swim. Like horses, and camels, and dogs. The main thing is to find a good place for ford, where there is no strong current and the width of the river is not very large. For a nomad who knew the Steppe like the back of his hand, finding a ford was not a problem. They were usually known since prehistoric times))) The problem here is not that the cattle drowned, but that the nomad himself hold on to a horse, a wineskin or a raft laughing
                Well, further phrases that the nomad had to allegedly "play a game - whether I will gather a herd or not" simply means that you are very far from the topic. The steppe dwellers of that time were natural-born cattle breeders, and it is unrealistic to "lose" animals as if by rote. The herd can be lost only in bad weather. And even then - temporarily.
                And Kazakhs also have shepherd dogs - alabai ("tobet"). These dogs not only guard the herd, but also drive the severed cattle back to the rest.
                Quote: from Yaika
                The Trans-Ural territory - it was that steppe on which nomadic tribes passed at intervals of six months ... and not necessarily every year!

                The route and the interval of roaming is quite hard. Nomads do not roam at random, but in an orderly way, returning to the same nomads. Any small glitch in this mechanism (in the 18-20 centuries these glitches occurred due to weaning part of the land in favor of the Russian soldiers and immigrants used by the Kazakhs for regular migrations), led to the disruption of migrations throughout the Steppe. You can’t just wander around and roam where you and your family wanted to. This will result in a conflict with other genera.
    2. Mogol_U
      Mogol_U 9 October 2013 11: 20
      +2
      Vladimir, this is a story about completely different events and another Cossack army. What has been announced on the pages of the site earlier refers to other wars (war with the Turks, Bayazet defense, battles near Astrakhan), but the exploits are no less significant. And in the Urals, or rather, among the Ural Cossacks (the Orenburg Cossack army, Siberian, and before the revolution, where these troops mainly lived, this region was called, as the precocious independent state now calls itself - Kazakhstan ...), there are many heroic pages, and the battle of Ikan is one of them.
      And the songs are alive and this one is being sung with us, for example, the Cossack ensemble Volnitsa from Miass.
      Partly such stories are described in the collections of stories by Valentin Pikul.
      1. Vladimirets
        Vladimirets 9 October 2013 11: 43
        0
        Quote: Mogol_U
        Vladimir, this is a story about completely different events and another Cossack army.

        Maybe it’s forgotten. what
      2. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny 10 October 2013 19: 20
        +1
        Quote: Mogol_U
        as now the premature independent state - Kazakhstan is calling itself ...)

        The Kazakh Khanate was formed in the middle of the 15th century and had diplomatic relations with the Qin Empire and with Russia. Do not know the topic, do not curse yourself.
        1. with Yaika
          with Yaika 10 October 2013 22: 49
          -1
          Quote: Marek Rozny

          The Kazakh Khanate was formed in the middle of the 15th century and had diplomatic relations with the Qin Empire and with Russia. Do not know the topic, do not curse yourself.

          It was just a union of tribes. No more.
          1. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny 11 October 2013 11: 12
            +2
            Quote: from Yaik
            It was just a union of tribes. No more.

            Well, then Russia does not exist either. This is just a union of regions.
          2. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny 11 October 2013 11: 12
            -1
            Quote: from Yaik
            It was just a union of tribes. No more.

            Well, then Russia does not exist either. This is just a union of regions.
  4. Semurg
    Semurg 9 October 2013 10: 56
    +2
    from Ikan to Turkestan, somewhere 20km, three days broke through with a fight on horseback? True, maybe another Ikan and not the current one.
    1. smile
      smile 9 October 2013 13: 02
      +2
      Semurg
      Well, you must admit that the speed of hundreds of constantly attacked by 14 thousand is slightly slowed down ... :))) The very fact that they reached is generally a miracle .... and here you are unhappy, slowly made your way through a hundred times superior enemy ... also your kind of miracle ... :))
      1. Semurg
        Semurg 9 October 2013 14: 16
        +1
        I understand it was hard. 100 Cossacks missed 14000 and then made their way through them. and there’s another question: the steppe is bare as a table and far away, and in Turkestan didn’t see the masses of 14000 horsemen and did not hear volleys of rifles especially at night? though I repeat, maybe Ikan is referring to and not which exists today.
        1. Semurg
          Semurg 9 October 2013 14: 34
          +2
          and another question from Shymkent to Uralsk somewhere probably 1-1.5 thousand km and Kokandans traveled to such a distance for slaves? and still drove past the lower reaches of the Syr Darius where the tribal nomads of the Adays, well, not very tolerant of strangers? these same Adays who at about the same time pressed the Mangyshlak from the Turkmen for what they are still offended. If it were just written that Russia was moving to Middle Asia to capture new colonies without all this tale about the capture of slaves and looted villages, I would silently agree. and since the message is initially not accurate, then the three-day battle causes me doubts. I don’t have the truth to refute this, therefore, I don’t write that this is an outright disinformation, but I’m just asking questions, maybe someone has information without offending or hitting anyone.
          1. Cpa
            Cpa 9 October 2013 22: 59
            0
            Quote: Semurg
            If it were just written that Russia was moving to Middle Asia to capture new colonies without all this tale about the capture of slaves and looted villages, I would silently agree.

            good We recognize that the invaders, you recognize that are heroic. wink
            1. Semurg
              Semurg 10 October 2013 09: 12
              +2
              you acknowledge that RI was a colonial empire well thanks and on this laughing who are you Kazakhs, Kokandans? aliens? lol
              1. Cpa
                Cpa 10 October 2013 21: 49
                0
                Quote: Semurg
                who are you Kazakhs, Kokandans? aliens?

                By the way, according to some legends of the ancient Turks, the founders of the steppe tribes emerged as boys from a "pot-bellied tree" that descended from the sky. They were adopted by the locals and later headed the tribes. So the version with aliens should not be dismissed wink
                Quote: Semurg
                you acknowledge that RI was a colonial empire well thanks and on this

                Arrogance will not add to your knowledge, it’s stupid to deny the obvious. I never mocked the exploits of your people. Revanchism?
                1. Apollo
                  Apollo 10 October 2013 21: 55
                  +1
                  Quote: KPA
                  By the way, according to some traditions

                  Which one exactly ?! winked
                  Quote: KPA
                  of the ancient Türks, the founders of the steppe tribes came out as boys from a "pot-bellied tree" that descended from the sky.
                  what
                  google the epic "Erkenegon", there is a different interpretation.
                2. Semurg
                  Semurg 11 October 2013 10: 13
                  +2
                  [
                  [quote = semurg] you acknowledge that the Republic of Ingushetia was a colonial empire, well, thanks to that too [/ quote]
                  Arrogance will not add you knowledge, it’s stupid to deny the obvious. I never mocked the exploits of your people. Revanchism? [/ Quote]
                  this is not arrogance here on the site they constantly want to prove to me that RI was not a colonial empire but cared only about the welfare of its foreigners and you perceive this as "mock", you like that popular story about gingerbread for foreigners, then they are outraged by the modern US policy they also think that they bring gingerbread to everyone and do not fight for the interests of their empire. And they also perform military exploits, which does not negate the fact of neo-colonial warriors.
    2. Uralean
      Uralean 9 October 2013 13: 27
      +2
      Yes, that one. These 20 kilometers were given in great blood. 150 Cossacks, against the 25 thousandth army of Khan Alemkul. I had to put the horses in the beds and make fortifications, arranged blockages from dead Cossack bodies .. What is the speed of movement? At night, leaving the dead and wounded until they sent out scouts to break through to their own, (moreover, the Kokandans intercepted the first batch and destroyed, and only the second reached) And more than once Khan offered them to surrender, promising to keep them alive, and not sell in Bukhara markets. But the Cossacks were faithful to their Cossack bonds, dying moved in their direction. And only the help that approached from the fortress saved them from complete extermination.
      1. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny 10 October 2013 19: 24
        +1
        Quote: Ural
        150 Cossacks, against the 25 thousandth army of Khan

        why not 15 Cossacks and 250 thousand Khiva? so even cooler.
        1. with Yaika
          with Yaika 10 October 2013 22: 54
          0
          Quote: Marek Rozny

          why not 15 Cossacks and 250 thousand Khiva? so even cooler.

          cooler - not cooler, but the Kirghiz came to Chernyaev and at that time offered help from 10 thousand of their fighters against the troops of the regent Alimkul.
  5. Aydin
    Aydin 9 October 2013 11: 55
    -4
    The Cocoon Army was almost unarmed, the riders had only checkers and spades
    1. smile
      smile 9 October 2013 13: 13
      +2
      Aydin
      Ay-yai-yay ... and ours that. were the machine guns? :))) Or do you think. that in the collision of two horse lavas a muzzle-loading firearm played a big role? Or in the 14 thousandth army there were fewer guns. than the Cossacks? And by the way, you bashfully forgot that these independence fighters made good money from selling slave slaves and could arm themselves normally. of course. like ours. but not bad at all. And in the collisions of horse lavas, the standard tactics of both sides, it was drafts and spades that were used ... :))) I understand that you really don’t want to admit that the fighting efficiency of the Russians was simply much higher than that of the robber gangs of slavers and robbers, who were Khan’s troops, but here I can’t help you, alas ... :)))
    2. Uralean
      Uralean 9 October 2013 13: 32
      0
      No you are not right! In the Kokan army, there were also firearms! Listen carefully to the song-tale .. ".... We licked down, bullets whistled, and the cannonballs tore us to pieces ..." So, we shouldn't consider the army of the Kokand Khan so toothless ..
      1. Walking
        Walking 9 October 2013 21: 37
        +3
        England helped the Kokand Khanate, so there was a firearm.
        1. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 10 October 2013 19: 46
          +2
          Guys, have you read at least one material of the time? Kokandans at the time of the invasion of the Russian army practically did not have a professional army. The armies of these tiny Uzbek states consisted mostly of Persian slaves. Once, the whole history of Khiva, Kokand, and Bukhara was protected by mercenaries from the Kazakhs and Turkmens. However, after the Kazakhs voluntarily became part of the Empire, they ceased to serve the Central Asian khans. Therefore, it was necessary to recruit an army of Persian slaves. When the Russians invaded, the khans stupidly mobilized the civilian population (from the Sarts - Tajik-Uzbeks), who had not only rifles, they also had few sabers. Simple farmers (peasants) with hoes, bazaar merchants and artisans with sticks came out against the Russians. Central Asian historians of that time sigh, talking about this unfortunate army, mentioning that naive peasants often went into battle with the Koran in their hands, believing that enemies could be dispersed by prayers. These people NEVER fought, did not study military affairs and had no idea about the war. Asian cartoons (guns) are significantly inferior to modern European guns, and about artillery - I'm generally embarrassed to talk about. Yes, she was in the armies of Kokand and Khiva, but these were more psychological weapons than real combat ones. No carriages, no sighting devices. To get from it into something was a miracle.
          The Russian army was much better armed. In the Russian army there were professional soldiers who, at the very least, were taught to fight. Well, and another significant plus - the Russian army relied on the loyal inhabitants of the Steppe, who willingly supplied the Russian army with provisions, horses, guides and volunteers. At the same time, the Uzbek khans had no chance of supporting the local population if they invaded the Steppe - the fact is that the steppes never liked the Sarts and, on occasion, always invaded the Sartian cities with the aim of robbing (even there).
          The Kazakhs (as if they did not perceive negatively the Russian invasion of Central Asia in general) actually very willingly supported the Russian intervention in the Uzbek region. Another thing is that Russian officers from among the Kazakhs (and there were already such a bulk in those days) were really dead of lawlessness, which was arranged by some Russian commanders in the captured Sart cities. Even the famous Russian Kazakh reconnaissance officer Chokan Valikhanov - a direct descendant of Genghis Khan (!) - and he was indignant at the inhumane actions of his commander Chernyaev against Central Asians and resigned from military service in protest.
          I already wrote on the website about Kazakh officers of the Russian army who served at that time, participated in Central Asian campaigns, and many of them expressed their protest in connection with the unjustified extermination of the peaceful Uzbek population. This was how it was necessary to try so that the Kazakhs, who never appreciated their own or someone else's blood, who historically did not like these Sarts, were outraged by the arbitrariness of the Uzbek residents!
          1. Cpa
            Cpa 10 October 2013 21: 55
            -1
            Quote: Marek Rozny
            In the Russian army there were professional soldiers who, at the very least, were taught to fight.

            Here are those times, it’s impossible to do so. 25 years in the service, is this at the very least? Or were the Cossacks poorly able to fight poorly?
            1. The comment was deleted.
          2. The comment was deleted.
          3. Nagaibak
            Nagaibak 13 October 2013 20: 47
            -1
            Marek Rozny "Once upon a time the entire history of Khiva, Kokand, Bukhara was defended by mercenaries from Kazakhs and Turkmens. However, after the Kazakhs voluntarily entered the Empire, they ceased to serve the Central Asian khans. Therefore, they had to recruit an army from Persian slaves."
            In general, the troops of the Kokand Khanate consisted of mercenaries of the Kypchaks. They hosted it with might and main. BUT ... they dispersed them as easily as the slaves of the Persians. If by honest special valor they did not distinguish themselves.
            Marek Rozny "Even the famous Russian intelligence officer Kazakh Chokan Valikhanov - a direct descendant of Genghis Khan (!) - and he was outraged by the inhuman actions of his commander Chernyaev against Central Asians and in protest left military service."
            You wrote that the artist Vereshchagin complained very much about the same thing. I did not find confirmation. Probably worth reading from Ch. Valikhanov. If it is there.
            The following remark is a little off topic, but still.
            Mentions of the Ataman Annenkov, the Kazakh Bait, who was singing in front of the firing squad, are confirmed mainly on Kazakh sites. I represent him singing in the Kazakh language to the accompaniment of the dutarist orchestra. The firing squad brushing away tears gives flowers ...
  6. Mogol_U
    Mogol_U 9 October 2013 12: 31
    +3
    Quote: Aydin
    The Cocoon Army was almost unarmed, the riders had only checkers and spades

    In fact, the Cossacks at that time also preferred lances and sabers (or even better a dagger or a bebut), the saber became a statutory weapon towards the end of the 19th century (well, it didn't hurt that the Cossacks accepted innovations in weapons, and even more so those who were with us , unlike the Don troops, who had to fight in more man-made wars more often). The soldiers, yes - had guns (and, as was the custom in Russia, outdated systems that were almost cleaned with bricks). You can argue - what about the guns? Yeah, as many as 10, and you tried to load those guns (what is their rate of fire at that time), and aim with those scopes, and even not in a stationary location? And a small remark - this is "only" against the 14000 army, "almost unarmed". Have you ever tried to fight in a junkyard (in buhurt, in an assault battle, or playing Russian football - it's not 1 on 1)?
    PS: and yes, another question arises, where did the Kokons army get drafts from? I heard about sabers (and of different variations - from Turkish to Persian), and checkers ... this is from another opera, otherwise another question arises - what did the highlanders do in the steppes and fields ...
  7. George
    George 9 October 2013 12: 49
    +2
    Lovely song .
    Great article.
    I thank the author. Penetrated.
    1. Uralean
      Uralean 9 October 2013 13: 35
      +3
      Yes, beautiful, but here in the Urals, they prefer to sing and listen to her, in the old version, without any components, voice.
      1. George
        George 9 October 2013 15: 20
        +1
        Quote: Ural
        we have in the Urals, they prefer to sing and listen to it, in the old version, without accompaniment, voice

        Greetings to the Ural, hi (the name would be written in the profile)
        I love to sing myself. Especially such lively songs.
  8. Yaik Cossack
    Yaik Cossack 9 October 2013 14: 01
    +1
    Feat Ikansko hundreds
    http://topwar.ru/24049-podvig-ikanskoy-sotni.html
  9. Yaik Cossack
    Yaik Cossack 9 October 2013 14: 03
    +1
    A new video from the series “Russian Heroes” dedicated to the feat of Yesaul Vasily Serov and the Urals Cossack hundreds ...

    Dear friends! Today we bring to your attention the seventeenth edition of the series of historical miniatures “Russian Heroes”, created by the efforts of the employees of the “Russian People’s Line” and dedicated to the feat of the Ural Cossacks and almost the most heroic episode of the Central Asian campaign of the Russian Army - the legendary battle, which a hundred brave Uralians gave a hundredfold superior enemy forces.

    http://ruskline.ru/news_rl/2013/09/13/hvala_vam_uralcy_geroi_ikana/
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=9K87NS6qq_g
  10. yan
    yan 9 October 2013 14: 59
    0
    Admins proposal - publish the historical section as an auxiliary tool for schoolchildren and students of historical faculties
  11. deman73
    deman73 9 October 2013 15: 57
    0
    Eternal Glory to the Heroes !!!!
  12. Uralean
    Uralean 9 October 2013 21: 51
    0
    Quote: Yaitsky Cossack
    A new video from the series “Russian Heroes” dedicated to the feat of Yesaul Vasily Serov and the Urals Cossack hundreds ...

    Dear friends! Today we bring to your attention the seventeenth edition of the series of historical miniatures “Russian Heroes”, created by the efforts of the employees of the “Russian People’s Line” and dedicated to the feat of the Ural Cossacks and almost the most heroic episode of the Central Asian campaign of the Russian Army - the legendary battle, which a hundred brave Uralians gave a hundredfold superior enemy forces.

    http://ruskline.ru/news_rl/2013/09/13/hvala_vam_uralcy_geroi_ikana/
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=9K87NS6qq_g

    You offer them a disc created by the Ural Cossacks "On the Edge of Vast Russia" Where old songs of the Yaitsk Cossacks are collected. Very interesting stuff ..
  13. rezident
    rezident 9 October 2013 22: 46
    -3
    The next colonial acquisition of Russia is presented as the pacification of certain nomads. The Cossacks were then more cultured; there was no yelling at the suitcase station Russia in 1991.
  14. with Yaika
    with Yaika 10 October 2013 02: 29
    +1
    Song "In the wide steppe under Icahn"

    Performed by the Ural Cossacks:
    [01:45] Ural Cossacks - In the wide steppe under Ikan
    [02:15] Art. Round Lake - In the wide steppe under Ikan
    [03:19] Ensemble "Stanichniki" - In the wide steppe near Ikan ... (historical song, Krugloozerny settlement of the Ural region)

    But this song is not sung by the Urals - [06:15] Ural Cossacks - In the wide steppe near Ikan, but can be taken for execution.
    http://muzofon.com/search/в%20степи%20широкой%20под%20иканом

    Praise be to you the Urals - the heroes of Ikan.
    Uralians sing
    http://vmusice.net/mp3/%D5%E2%E0%EB%E0%20%E2%E0%EC%2C%20%F3%F0%E0%EB%FC%F6%FB%2C
    %20%E3%E5%F0%EE%E8%20%C8%EA%E0%ED%E0
  15. with Yaika
    with Yaika 10 October 2013 02: 35
    +1
    The site of the Ikan battle.
  16. with Yaika
    with Yaika 10 October 2013 02: 39
    +1
    Ribbons received by the Ural Cossacks on hats.
  17. with Yaika
    with Yaika 10 October 2013 02: 51
    -2
    Quote: Semurg
    and another question from Shymkent to Uralsk somewhere probably 1-1.5 thousand km and Kokandans traveled to such a distance for slaves?

    The Adays barymtachili, stole cattle from the Cossacks, and it happened that they captured the Cossacks, and then sold them as slaves to Khiva.
    1. Semurg
      Semurg 10 October 2013 08: 56
      +1
      the Cossacks didn’t yield to the Adayans at the expense of mutual barymta, and it is not necessary to represent their victims here, and the Cossacks well respected this matter and established it on the account of the seizures of people, especially they tried to take the girls away for subsequent sale to the bride.
      1. with Yaika
        with Yaika 10 October 2013 13: 10
        0
        Quote: Semurg
        at the expense of mutual barymty, the Cossacks did not concede to the Adai ...

        That's just about the mutual barymty - no!
        The Cossacks didn’t grind, and the cattle were not stolen. It's a lie !
        Judge: that the Cossacks, the Adays, and all the Kirghiz-Kaisaks were not allowed to move to the "alien" side of Yaik. In addition, the Cossacks lived settled, often near the Urals. The Adays roamed much deeper in the steppe. Why would the Cossacks expose themselves to an unpredictable situation when they have to rush across the steppe with an unknown result? And the Adays always knew where to get and where they could profit at the risk of their lives.
        In addition, theft is a sin, and the Cossacks, like devout Old Believers, shunned the transgression of the laws of God.
        For the same reason, the Cossacks did not marry "basurmankas". Faith did not allow! Maybe someone got married, but if it was, it was an extraordinary event.
        Capturing prisoners ... but for what? How are the workers? They still need to be trained ... Yes, and not accustomed nomads to the similar work of settled residents.
        I will give you one hint ... Yes, sometimes the Kyrgyz were taken prisoner ... For subsequent exchanges for Russians. There were no other options!
        1. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 10 October 2013 21: 16
          +3
          Quote: from Yaika
          The Cossacks didn’t grind, and the cattle were not stolen. It's a lie !

          wahaha))) Vereshchagin needed to be told about this, otherwise he described in his memoirs how the Cossacks were fond of robberies in East Turkestan ... What a bad artist this Vereshchagin is! In vain on the holy people brought ...
          Quote: from Yaika
          For the same reason, the Cossacks did not marry "basurmankas".

          Oops again. Throughout the history of the Cossacks on the "Basurmanki" and married. Another thing is that they converted to Orthodoxy (including the Old Believers' faith). The founders of the Yaik Cossacks, when they migrated deep into the steppe from Russia (and lived for another couple of hundred years, surrounded by the Turkic khanates) took the women with them? Or did they go to Ryazan for girls through the Kazakhs, Nogays, Tatars? Or maybe you would tell Lavra Kornilov that his father - a service Cossack - did not marry a Kazakh woman from the Argyn clan, who became his mother, but a blue-eyed blonde? Have you seen Kornilov's photograph? Not a single Slavic feature. But the son of a Cossack!
          Quote: from Yaika
          Yes, and not accustomed nomads to similar work of settled residents.
          What kind of work are they not accustomed to? Let's start with the fact that the Cossacks, even in the 19th century, did not toil with agriculture. And there were no Russian peasants in the okrug until the Stolypin reform here. The Cossacks, who lived side by side with the Kazakhs, were usually engaged in DRIVEN CATTLE. Officials who came from indigenous Russia always emphasized the fact that the Cossacks do little farming and do it very badly, but they are doing cattle breeding (horses and rams) everywhere and quite well. The second occupation of the Cossacks is trade. More precisely, a natural exchange for "satovki" with Kazakhs, and further resale of Kazakh cattle in the internal regions of Russia. True, this business was very quickly taken over by the Kazan Tatars.
          What could the Kazakh Cossack teach? Sewing and blacksmithing among the Kazakhs was better developed than among the Cossacks. But, essno, it was inferior to the products of Russian industrial enterprises of indigenous Russia, which by the 19th century were at least technologically advanced. Nevertheless, even at the end of the 19th century, Russian ethnographers wrote that there is nothing to learn from the Cossack Kazakhs, on the contrary, Russian Cossacks learn from Kazakhs. Read Kharuzin.
          1. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny 10 October 2013 21: 18
            +1
            Quote: from Yaika
            Yes, sometimes the Kyrgyz were captured ... For later exchanges for Russians. There were no other options!

            And what for a Kazakh captive Russian? This is not such a valuable commodity to be transported far away to the "slave" market. Moreover, in the Uzbek khanates, where there was a slave trade, slaves from Persia were usually used - there were thousands of them, they were a cheap commodity and they were more valuable as a worker than a full Cossack.
            No offense, but "Russian slaves" the Central Asians did not need nafig. Iranians, Tajiks, Sarts are more skilled craftsmen and more hardworking people than Russians or Kazakhs laughing In the Middle Ages, a Turkic slave was valued as a warrior, a Persian-language slave as a skilled hardworking master, and of the Slavs only women were valued for their natural beauty.
            Even the Crimeans, who in Russian history are associated exclusively with a gang of slave traders who steal the inhabitants of Russia day and night, in fact, on lands belonging to Moscow, they rarely raided with the aim of being full. Crimeans traded prisoners of war Russians, of which a fair amount fell into the hands of the Crimeans after Moscow's endless attempts to seize the Crimean Khanate. They led civilians away from the lands that belonged to Poland, since the Crimeans were allies of the Ottoman Empire, and the Turks butted all the time with Poles.
            Z.Y. Muscovites themselves actively banked slaves from the Crimea. This business was well developed in Russia before the Romanovs and disappeared only after the capture of the peninsula.
            1. with Yaika
              with Yaika 10 October 2013 21: 57
              -1
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              And what for a Kazakh captive Russian? This is not such a valuable commodity to be transported far away to the "slave" market.

              Here's an explanation for you ... Three hundred rams for the Kyrgyz - a great wealth!
              1. Marek Rozny
                Marek Rozny 10 October 2013 22: 38
                0
                Here it is not necessary to pull this event out of the general context. To better present the events preceding 1787, I will give a brief excerpt from history:

                "The uprising of Syrym Datov (Datula) - the uprising of the Kazakhs of the Younger Zhuz in 1783-1797 under the leadership of Syrym Datov.

                The national movement of the Kazakhs led by Srim Datov was directly related to the beginning of the government’s attempts to regulate the internal life of the dependent Kazakh clans. In fact, the turbulent events in the Younger Zhuz at the end of the 7th century were an echo of the Pugachev Peasant War, in which the Bashkirs and part of the Kazakh clans took an active part. At the first moment, in order to reduce the intensity of the Pugachev region, Catherine II made quite large concessions related to allowing the use of traditional places of nomads, river and lake lands taken away in connection with the expansion of the Ural, Orenburg and Siberian Cossack troops, the organization of border lines in the Urals and Irtysh. By a decree on November 1775, XNUMX, the College of Foreign Affairs allowed the Kazakhs the use of pastures in the interfluve of the Urals and the Volga, on the coast of the Caspian Sea, on the right bank of the Irtysh. But these actions were contrary to the measures already taken to colonize these territories, in fact, these lands were either already occupied by Cossack farms and state arable lands, or were planned for them. In 1782, a Decree followed, explaining that in the case of cattle driving to these lands, payment for their “hiring” is required first. But this measure seemed insufficient, in particular, the Ural Cossacks took the initiative, demanding the provision of amanats (hostages) when passing through the territory controlled by the army, and then the rule of the army completely forbade the Cossacks from leasing the land, that is, they virtually prohibited the Kazakhs from moving beyond the Urals to "Inside". In response, a real uprising followed, numerous raids on outposts and fortifications, retaliatory punitive expeditions.

                In the Younger Zhuz at the same time, internal strife took place. After the transition to Russian patronage, the importance of the khan's power fell, the vertical feudal pyramid of the khans - sultans - clan foremen collapsed, each of the heads of clans sought to independently negotiate with the border and central administration. To eliminate the anarchic confusion that had arisen, Orenburg Governor-General Igelström proposed convening a congress of elders, a kind of steppe parliament. But after Srym Datov was elected head of the congress, and he himself began to resemble the gentry Seim, in 1789 Igelstrom preferred the restoration of the khan's power, which led to increased internal confrontation and open disobedience to the Russian administration, an increase in the number of attacks on the border lines, complete stopping trade with Central Asia throughout the 1790s. Only by 1797, through numerous trade with the foremen, the sultans managed to pacify most of the Kazakh clans and the uprising began to decline. "

                The Kazakhs were outraged by the actions of the tsarist government when the Kazakhs began to take land for the colonists. Orenburg, I recall, was generally built at the request of the Kazakh khan the Younger Zhuz Abulkhair on Kazakh soil. He asked the Russians to build a city for his needs. Neither he nor other Kazakhs thought that under this request they would turn into the beginning of the seizure of Kazakh land for immigrants from Russia. It went to the first Russian colonists and German Volga colonists.
                It is clear that in Russian history everything looks different: a simple peaceful Orenburg bourgeoisie Petrov peacefully mowed hay, and then for no apparent reason evil Kazakhs attacked ... The question is, where did the "bourgeois Petrov" come from? Kazakh Orenburg steppe? Why did the queen give him land that belonged to the Kazakhs and was used by them for their household needs?
                1. with Yaika
                  with Yaika 11 October 2013 01: 11
                  -2
                  Quote: Marek Rozny
                  "The uprising of Syrym Datov (Datula) - the uprising of the Kazakhs of the Younger Zhuz in 1783-1797 under the leadership of Syrym Datov.

                  I will also add:

                  These years, the rules of Catherine II.
                  In 1782, she commanded:
                  - in Orenburg, open a special border board - the Frontier Expedition;
                  - lifted the ban on wintering Kyrgyz cattle on the Russian side;
                  - ordered the heads of border places to watch justice, to provide protection and fair protection to the Kyrgyz people;
                  - she allocated funds for the construction of mosques and with them schools, caravanserais along the Orenburg and Siberian borders.

                  Despite this, the raids on the Cossack lands only intensified.
                  In February 1784, a detachment of 3 was sent, who did not find the culprits and took 462 Kyrgyz hostages for the return of captured Cossacks. Crowds of Kyrgyz relatives moved to the Samara side of the Urals. Here the Raw Dates began to take part.
                  In 1785, two more detachments were sent, which had already taken 213 people, again for ransom.
                  And the attack and captivity of the Cossacks (in 1784 they captured 176, and in 1786 - 175 people, not counting those killed) - is that so, childish pranks?
                  Then followed the assault on the fortress of the Tanalytsky hordes of Syrym.
                  The power of Nurali Khan is completely weakened, Syrym gathers the People’s Assembly under his name, swears allegiance to the Empress, demanding that the heirs of Abulkhair and Khan Nurali never be the khans of the Little Horde.
                  Subsequently, Syrym attacked the villages of Nurali Khan. As a result, he disappeared into Orenburg.
                  The descendant of Nurali - the Sultan of Irali caught Syrym and kept him captive. Subsequently, he received freedom and some authority from the Russian government.
                  The Turks, who fought with Russia, began to persuade Syrym to go to war against Russia, to which he replied that he would enter only after the Bukharians. The Russian government found out about this treachery of Syrym, and stopped trusting him. He was humiliated by this raw and began again to "trample" through the Russian territories. In 1790, Nurali died, the Government began to incline towards looking for the most profitable candidate, but not Syrym, and then he was finally "carried away".
                  On July 15, 1788, all Kyrgyz kaisaks who were moving to Russia were allowed to give land without requiring any permission.
                  After the death of Kaip, Syrym became closer to his sons, because the people remained on the side of the khan’s power, and not on the side of Syrym.
                  In 1792, he sent a bold letter to the governor of Ufa Peutling, where he began to rebuke the Empress.
                  Khan Irali could not cope with the already "uncontrollable" Syrym, and asked the Government to pacify him.
                  The Little Horde was divided into two camps: Sultan Abul-gazi and his governor Syrym, and the second - Ishim.
                  In November 1797, under the outpost of Krasnoyarsk Raw killed Ishim. This overflowed the patience of the Russian government.
                  In addition to this, the Ural Cossack Ilya Skorobogatov of the Zelenovsky outpost cut off the ear of a Barymtach for a raid. Subsequently, the former batyr he died in Khiva, where he migrated in 1797. According to rumors, he was poisoned by the Khiva khan.
                  1. Marek Rozny
                    Marek Rozny 11 October 2013 11: 44
                    +2
                    Quote: from Yaik
                    In 1782, she commanded:

                    Quote: from Yaik
                    Despite this, the raids on the Cossack lands only intensified.

                    Did you even read what I gave you for the reasons of Syrym Datov's uprising? Do you understand why the Kazakhs supported the Pugachev uprising and why, after the pacification of the Pugachev regime, the Kazakhs continued to "diesel"?
                    The Kazakhs did not begin to attack the "harmless, peaceful" Russian soldiers, Cossacks and the colonists who had arrived.
                    And do not expose Syrym Datov as an insidious thief who devoted his life to the alleged theft of cattle.
                    I have specially marked for you a part of the text in bold, so that the reasons for the discontent of the Kazakhs become clear. I have a feeling that you do not want to see the reasons for border graters at close range, and is trying to present Kazakhs as ordinary cattle stealers. If it comes to that, the poor Kazakh always had more cattle than a wealthy Russian or Cossack. Cattle theft in this case is a "trophy" and not the goal of the conflict.
          2. with Yaika
            with Yaika 10 October 2013 22: 06
            -1
            Quote: Marek Rozny
            Vereshchagin needed to be told about this, otherwise he described in his memoirs how the Cossacks were fond of robberies in East Turkestan ...

            A hike for zipuns is not at all like a baranta, and they went on a hike purposefully. Baranta is often a spontaneous theft, although planned "in principle".
            Turkestan and Trans-Ural territories are quite different principles for hiking.
          3. with Yaika
            with Yaika 10 October 2013 22: 18
            0
            Quote: Marek Rozny
            Or maybe you would tell Lavra Kornilov that his father, a serving Cossack, did not marry a Kazakh from the Argyn family, who became his mother, but a blue-eyed blonde?

            My quote is incomplete, try reading to "... an extraordinary event."
            You won’t catch me on this ... About Kornilov - the hackneyed fact of the Kazakhs, which I have known for a long time ... which is out of the ordinary.
            Cossacks brought from campaigns and Turkish women, and Circassian. You only need to know: the brought wives completely changed their life style, going over to the life of a Cossack, and the Kazakh woman who married a distance of one equestrian passage will not be able to abandon her family and lifestyle. If you want, you don’t want, it will be an accomplice of a kind in one form or another. The Cossacks understood this well!
            1. Marek Rozny
              Marek Rozny 10 October 2013 23: 37
              +3
              Quote: from Yaik
              and a Kazakh woman who got married at the distance of one equestrian passage will not be able to abandon her family, way of life.

              A Kazakh who adopted Christianity - falling into the hands of the Kazakhs, could be put to death. Women were not treated so strictly, their religion change due to marriage was not viewed so strictly, but in any case, it was considered a cut off slice.
              Well, the way of life of the Cossacks and the Kazakhs was almost identical.
              Quote: from Yaik
              About Kornilov - a hackneyed fact of the Kazakhs, which I have known for a long time ... which is out of the ordinary.

              Well, I can still remember another Orenburger with a Kazakh mother - the famous lawyer Plevako))) Father, however, is not a Cossack, but a Christian Slav.
              And here is a description of the Siberian Cossacks by Grigory Potanin:
              "Near the Koryakovskaya stanitsa, the strongest interaction of the Russian and Kyrgyz national spirit is taking place. Not far from the Koryakovskaya village there is another village - Yamyshevskaya, in which in the old days such a rapprochement between the two peoples was made that both races partly mixed in here ... There are many baptized Kirghiz and even Kirghiz women among the Cossacks. "
              Potanin wrote in one of his letters to N. Yadrintsev: "Can't we imagine ... a storyteller from the Irtysh life? ... to portray a young Cossack woman in love with a Kirghiz is a fact that is not uncommon in our Irtysh."
              But we see in Chokan Valikhanov: "In some Cossack villages, almost half of the population consists of baptized Kyrgyz, for example, in Yamyshevskaya, Chistaya and in some others."
              And here is a word to the pre-revolutionary Cossack historian G.E. Katanaev. He writes about the linear Cossacks: "We, in all likelihood, will not be mistaken if we say that the Kalmyks and Kirghiz had the greatest influence on the cross-breeding, both quantitatively and qualitatively ... Children born to a Russian and a Kyrgyz, physically and even their moral makeup is more like a Kyrgyz than a Russian. "
              And such evidence is higher than the roof. I have not yet begun to cite examples of the confusion of Russians with Kalmyks, Buryats, Yakuts and other Turkic-Mongolian peoples (Pallas has works on this subject). In the 19th century, on the outskirts of Russia was just the peak of Russian-steppe marriages! Any contemporary who is there emphasizes that Russians in these parts are massively mixed with Asians, dress like Asians, and even speak Asian (usually Turkic, including Yakut) even among themselves.
              And not only the Turks poured into the Russian nation, but the Russians also became 100% Asians, for example, the Kazakhs had such a concept "shala-Cossack" (literally "half-Kazakh"), which meant people from Russia who fled from there In order not to serve in the army, they converted to Islam, pretended to be Kazakhs to Russian officials, married Kazakh women and pretended not to understand Russian. Now these Chala Cossacks have completely merged with other Kazakhs.
              In short, Russians and Kazakhs interfered en masse with each other. This now seems implausible in Russia, and in the 19th century it was a common thing.
          4. with Yaika
            with Yaika 10 October 2013 22: 32
            -2
            Quote: Marek Rozny
            To begin with, the Cossacks, even in the 19th century, were not particularly fond of agriculture. And we did not observe Russian peasants in the district right up to the Stolypin reform.

            Cossacks are not buckwheat. But melons - sown with pleasure. This is a Cossack affair!
            Wheat to grow and harvest - engaged in workers who came to seasonal work from the Simbirsk, Samara, Ufa provinces.
            1. Marek Rozny
              Marek Rozny 11 October 2013 12: 09
              +1
              What you describe was already only at the end of the 19th century. By that time, part of the Kazakhs had already switched to agriculture. Let me remind you that until 1861, no peasant at all simply had the right to drown somewhere in the Steppe for "seasonal work".
  18. with Yaika
    with Yaika 10 October 2013 03: 05
    0
    Hundred Serov received a double set of cartridges (40 pcs.) And for the unicorn 42 charges, and with such ammunition went on patrol. A hundred arrived at the Icans at 4 o'clock in the afternoon, it was already beginning to get dark.
    At dusk, a skirmish began, and neither Serov nor Alimkul knew what forces the enemy had. But there was the army of Alimkul. When he retreated and was told that it was a hundred Cossacks, Alimkul was simply "nailed" by this information ...
    1. Semurg
      Semurg 10 October 2013 09: 06
      +1
      I didn’t understand. Was there a three-day continuous battle or a shootout in the dark?
      1. with Yaika
        with Yaika 10 October 2013 12: 41
        +1
        The shootout began at the very beginning, and then the Cossacks took up the defense and fought back until December 6. Then, gathering all the remaining forces and fighting, they made their way for 8 miles in the direction of Turkestan. Reinforcements from the garrison had already come out to meet the Cossacks.
  19. with Yaika
    with Yaika 10 October 2013 03: 57
    +1
    Quote: Semurg
    If it were just written that Russia was moving to Middle Asia to capture new colonies without all this tale about the capture of slaves and looted villages I would silently agree.

    Here are the details after which you should agree ... and be silent ...
    Records were kept from 1758 to 1831. And do not think that there is no information about the Urals. There are a huge number of them!
    1. Semurg
      Semurg 10 October 2013 09: 04
      +1
      looked over a year from 20 to 100 people who disappeared, maybe the Kazakhs took away, perhaps they themselves washed off for a more free life in the steppe, because they lived nearby and saw a different life, because from thousands of inner provinces we fled to the outskirts why a hundred and no longer run after the will from the steppe no issuance.
      1. with Yaika
        with Yaika 10 October 2013 14: 50
        0
        Read the title more attentively ... "Captured by the Kyrgyz from the Orenburg line ...". If according to the census of Colonel Zakharov in 1723 there were about 6 Cossacks, then even 000 Cossacks is already a lot.
        Quote: Semurg
        perhaps washed away

        Where ? What for ???
        At the birth of a Cossack in the Yaitsk (Ural) army, a land allotment of 22 tithes (22 hectares) was given, the right to hayfields, fishing, exemption from many duties and contributions in the military territories, visiting a church, the defense of any Cossack by all forces from the enemy, predictable living space!
        A single person or group who left was deprived of everything! In the old days there were no "roadside cafes", no lodging for the night, and the life of a hermit, with all its seeming simplicity, was not possible. The steppe, although it is vast, but everything there had its own way of life and order!
        1. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 10 October 2013 22: 21
          0
          The Cossacks themselves are to blame. Robberies by the Cossacks were commonplace. Kazakhs constantly complained to Russian top officials about the lawlessness on the part of the inhabitants of one or another Cossack village. Officials, essno, put a bolt on the Kazakhs, handing the matter over to the local.
          Only Kaufman and Perovsky delved into the affairs and punished the guilty Cossacks. The Cossacks did not like Kaufman because, in their opinion, he too often sided with the "Kyrgyz". Therefore, when the governor died, the Cossacks did not give a penny for the funeral, although money came from all over Russia and the Kazakhs did not stand aside either.
          You have an idealized view of the Cossacks. It seems that apart from popular news articles (like this one) you are not interested in anything. But the fact that the Cossacks constantly ill-smoked and dabbled in the robbery of auls is mentioned in most works of contemporaries.
          By the way, more Kazakhs were killed. Russian punitive detachments destroyed the first aul that came across in revenge, since they usually did not dare to go deep into the Steppe. Read the gallant reports about these "expeditions", where the officer writes that they burned aul such and such, led to obedience to aul such and such, as punishment took away so many cattle, killed so many dozen people for an ostractivity.
          Don't want to show pages like this for balance? After all, I am more than sure that in the book from which you took the data about the "carried away by the Kyrgyz", there is also data on military incursions into the depths of the Kazakh steppe.

          Well, one more thing that you stubbornly ignore. Among the Ural and Orenburg Cossacks there were a bunch of ... Kazakhs. Let the baptized, but still Kazakhs. Let me remind you that the pre-revolutionary head of the Russian Orthodox mission in the Kazakh steppe claimed that about half a million Kazakhs were converted to Orthodoxy. And you should know that every Kazakh who converted to Orthodoxy AUTOMATICALLY attributed to the Cossacks - the Urals, Orenburg, Siberian, Semirechensky. It was not in the middle class, not in the peasants, not in the merchants, and not in the nobles, that they recorded Kazakh-crosses, namely, in the Cossacks. Well, now keep in mind that the baptized Kazakh and Kazakh Muslim were ardent enemies. The Kazakh steppe adat allowed the murder of a baptized Kazakh, well, or at least the complete confiscation of the property of the apostate. From the point of view of the Kazakh, it was a betrayal, despite the well-known Stepanite religious tolerance.
          1. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny 10 October 2013 22: 23
            +1
            So graters with Cossacks were for a variety of reasons. Starting from drunken fights with each other and mutual barymty, and ending with the topic of punishment of fellow apostates.
            Kazakhs consider the Cossacks from the mentioned Cossack troops to be really blood relatives (although our Cossacks always disown kinship in every possible way), but when the conversation turns into a negative plane, the first thing that an ordinary Kazakh recalls is that the "Cossack" is a traitor, that this is a man who serves a foreign king for a piece of meat and who betrayed the faith of his ancestors.
            Do not be offended, but for the Kazakhs the Cossacks are blood brothers who began to serve a foreign ruler. The Russian peasant, with whom the Kazakhs did not have very many points of contact in comparison with the Cossacks, nevertheless, does not cause such irritation among modern Kazakhs as the Cossacks. Moreover, in 1916 the Cossacks turned into punishers. And if the majority of Russian people vaguely imagine the events of that time, then for the Kazakhs, with their different perception of time, the events of a century ago are a real reason to swear at the Cossacks for treason. If it had not been for the Stolypin reform, the Kazakhs would not have led to an uprising, and then this Russian-Kazakh meat grinder would not have taken place, in which everyone has blood on their hands, the Cossacks would still gutor "like Kyrgyz" with each other, and would be so aggressively disposed towards the Cossacks. In the events of 1916, the Kazakhs have long held no grudge against either the dead Romanovs, or the sent Stolypin beggars, because of whom the storm began, or even the sent tsarist soldiers with artillery who shot the villages. The Kazakhs' memory was engraved in the fact that the Cossacks, with whom they were playing, but lived side by side and really talked IN ONE language, began to shoot at the Kazakhs. And the Kazakhs will remember this for a very long time.
            ZY Do not confuse the concepts of "slave" and "prisoner of war". "Cossacks, carried away by the Kyrgyz" are prisoners of war.
            1. Nagaibak
              Nagaibak 13 October 2013 21: 06
              0
              Marek Rozny "Do not be offended, but for Kazakhs Cossacks are blood brothers who began to serve a foreign ruler. The Russian peasant, with whom the Kazakhs did not have very many points of contact in comparison with the Cossack, nevertheless does not cause such irritation among modern Kazakhs as Cossacks. "
              Interestingly, are the blood brothers also attributed? Siberian Cossacks from ascribed more than half were.
          2. Nagaibak
            Nagaibak 13 October 2013 21: 02
            0
            Marek Rozny "Well, and one more thing that you stubbornly ignore. Among the Ural and Orenburg Cossacks there were a bunch of ... Kazakhs. Let them be baptized, but still Kazakhs. Let me remind you that the pre-revolutionary head of the Russian Orthodox mission in the Kazakh steppe stated, which was converted to Orthodoxy by about half a million Kazakhs. "
            Poor Kazakhs all assimilate and assimilate them, but they cannot assimilate. And under the kings and the communists. Marek, but the Tatars and Nagaybaks, being in the thick of the Russians, somehow remained by themselves and preserved their language and culture. Okay, the Cossacks Tatars of Muslim confession survived. And the Nagaybaks, having the same faith with the Russians, have also survived as a people. That is why your post makes me smile. Maybe the assimilation of Kazakhs by the Soviet school is just an ordinary exaggeration and no more ...
  20. with Yaika
    with Yaika 10 October 2013 23: 14
    0
    Quote: Marek Rozny
    When the Russians invaded, the khans stupidly mobilized the civilian population (from the Sarts - Tajik-Uzbeks), who had not only rifles, they also had few sabers. Simple farmers (peasants) with hoes, bazaar merchants and artisans with sticks came out against the Russians. Central Asian historians of that time sigh, talking about this unfortunate army, mentioning that naive peasants often went into battle with the Koran in their hands, believing that enemies could be dispersed by prayers.

    Ah, the Quran is good ...
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 11 October 2013 14: 04
      +2
      These same guns. They are located in the museum of the city of Shymkent (Chimkent - in Russian). They were made of copper and cast iron. Carriages in the photo - a remake.
      And now a word to a contemporary of the Khiva campaigns, AN ANTS, "TRAVEL TO TURKMENISTAN AND KHIVA":

      "/ Artillery of the Khivans. / The Khivans also have Artillery, which, according to their legend, consists of thirty guns of various kinds; but in G. Khiva I saw only seven, placed in one of the courtyards of the Khan dwelling. These guns are in great disarray, the gun mounts and wheels are broken; they are bound, apparently, like ours.

      I don’t think that in fact Khan had thirty guns, otherwise they would not have been in one of the courtyards of his palace and I would have seen them. It must be assumed that the Uzbeks, feeling their weakness, are trying to hide it with false stories. “They also claim to have several cannons of extraordinary size.” However, since Khan is already starting to cast tools at home, it’s not surprising that in addition to the seven said, he has a few more, but probably not in such quantity, and of course in the same malfunction and unusable.

      / Armament of the Khivintsy. / The weapons used by the Khivintsy are: saber, dagger, spear, bow and arrow, and a gun; sometimes they put on armor and shishak, and minters are used against armor.

      / Sabers. / Their sabers are crooked, and sometimes they are very good from Khorossan iron; they serve as their main weapon; they themselves do not know how to handle them and use for this Russian slaves who know this craft. - These sabers are valued very dearly from them; they are being sent to red leather scabbard. - They rarely wear daggers, but those that have been made in the likeness of large knives.

      / Spears. / Spears are used by them quite rarely, and not by all. - The shaft of these is rather thin as reed, and no longer than one and a half fathoms; the very spears are made of good iron.

      / Bow and arrow. / Bow and arrow are used for the most part by those who have no guns. “These bows are not large and not quite resilient, an arrow from them barely [116] flies a third of the distance that its Kabardian bow would bear. They also do not know how to cook a good bowstring for this weapon.
      1. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny 11 October 2013 14: 05
        +1
        / Shotguns. / They have few guns; they are very long, heavy, for the most part made by rifles and of very small caliber; they beat quite fairly when charged with good gunpowder, but are not very convenient. - Of these, it’s not a problem to shoot from a horse, but only from prone legs, and therefore they are used only in ambushes; their butts are quite long; on them a wick is wound, whose end is seized by iron tweezers attached to the butt; these tweezers are applied to the shelf by means of an iron rod drawn to the right hand of the shooter; attached to the end of the trunk to the bed are suckers in the form of two large horns. “They like to decorate their gun rifles with a silver notch.” - Others, however, have rifles with locks of exactly the same construction as the Persian; but these latter are very rare.

        Khiva residents shoot pretty well at the target; but with a little preparation and slowness, that it’s not worth it to have firearms. - The shooter first lays down, takes aim for a long time, the wick often goes out, and he hits the target with a bullet only at a distance of some sixty or eighty steps. - In the same way all Asians shoot; their art is extolled by our travelers, but truly their destiny in everything is ignorance. - The Khivintsy do not have pistols, [117] probably because the firearms are mostly without locks.

        / On the casting of guns. / The first experiments on casting guns under Magmed Rahim Khan were very unsuccessful, because they were cast with necklaces, which often burst these guns when firing; but after this failure he followed the advice of the Russian slaves and began to cast them without eagles; but not knowing how to drill them, discharged from Constantinople foundry, which he cast and drilled several tools; but for all that, due to the lack of copper, it should be believed that not many are cast in Khiva.

        / Arrangement of artillery. / During the campaign, the Artillery follows Khan and fights on horses; management of it is entrusted to one of the Russian Slaves, of whom the Uzbeks recognize themselves more capable of this position, and prefer the people of all other peoples in Khiva. - With all the same, the Russians serve with these guns, and that they are more skilled than the Khivintsy, but those who have seen the operation of this Artillery claim that it is completely successful. - In addition to the said artillery, the Khivans also use falconets.

        / Gunpowder / Gunpowder Khiva residents procure themselves and in a rather large amount; Sart are engaged in this craft. Some lands give nitrate in abundance, while Khivintsy mine sulfur from Mount Shikh Jeri; their powder is very cheaply sold in the Khanate, but completely powerless, because they do not know the proportion of the substances that make up it.

        The Uzbeks are not as capable of military affairs as the Turkmens and consider themselves masters, they are richer, have more whims and are not so willing to enter the waterless steppes. They care more about their clothes than weapons, and they are used to seeing people in Turkmenistan who were created to protect them and bring prey to them for sale.

        The Sarts have absolutely nothing belligerent; they are more like our Jews, do not like and even fear weapons. The current rule of Khiva and the treatment of them by Magmed Rahim Khan, who is trying to equalize all the estates of his subjects, has revived some pride in them; but this pride does not motivate them to military affairs; they tell only the exploits of their ancestors and the victors, and do not undertake campaigns in which their lives could be in danger; they prefer timid caution and cunning, brave courage and bravery. The weapon in their hands serves as a laughing stock to them, and the Uzbeks themselves say that it is much more fitting for them to wear an arshin than a saber. "
      2. Nagaibak
        Nagaibak 13 October 2013 21: 09
        0
        Marek Rozny "Their sabers are crooked, and sometimes there are very good ones made of Khorossan iron; they serve as their main weapon; they themselves do not know how to dress them and use for this Russian slaves who know this craft."
        What Russian slaves are there in your opinion? Nobody needs them, lazy, and they don’t know how to work. Just lost tourists ...
        Marek do not contradict yourself.
  21. Semurg
    Semurg 11 October 2013 10: 33
    +4
    Marek. somewhere he did not want to arrange again the mutual srach so carefully asked leading questions, but it can be seen without coupling it does not work. All the same, they will talk about gingerbread and the ungrateful. Andrei, as I understand it, is a Cossack, my neighbor is a Kuban, he says that he is not Russian " do you think I was almost eaten here when I wrote this proving that the Cossacks are Russians?
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 11 October 2013 12: 27
      +1
      Even in tsarist times, government officials openly recognized the low cultural level of Russian immigrants sent to the Kazakh steppe, the arbitrariness of local Russian officials, and the ever-smoking Cossacks (at the end of the 19th century in St. Petersburg already seriously stood up to the elimination of Cossacks from due to their poor controllability and penchant for delinquency). And we must pay tribute to tsarism - they tried to somehow solve these issues. These issues were covered in newspapers and in the conversations of senior officials.
      In Soviet times, they carried out a total brainwashing, instilling the idea that any Russian person on the outskirts of the country "carried a high culture to the unreasonable aborigines", then all the achievements of the Soviet country were attributed to the asset of the Russian people (it came to the point that even the main role in protecting Moscow in 1941 was attributed to "Siberian divisions", which were not there at the time of the German offensive). And by the end of the 20th century, the postulate “Russians broke into camps and auls and left behind libraries and theaters” was established in Russia ... Kanesh, most Russians will consider that their neighbors are ungrateful. They, panimaesh, built Baikonur and rescued from the Chinese, British, fascists, but they do not want to do "ku" three times.
      Uzbeks are also ungrateful. Russia conquered their blood and then, but they do not want to admit that they traded Russian slaves ...
      And myth-making in Russia is an amazing thing. Before our very eyes, Russia has formed a myth that in the 90s Russians were raped and killed in the countries of Central Asia, and now it is generally accepted that in 1991 these countries of our region fled Russia, forgetting that it was the Slavic republics that left the composition of the USSR.
      Well, now the theme of the causes of the Russian-Georgian war begins to live its own life. Kanesh, Russia is white and fluffy, while Georgians are American bedding who wanted to shit the Russian Federation. After 5 years, I won’t be surprised if the Russians believe that Saakashvili wanted to conquer Moscow, but Putin saw through the vile plan in time and started a war with little blood on enemy territory.
      1. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny 11 October 2013 12: 43
        +2
        Just the other day I watched the "Battle for Moscow" series from the "Great War" series. A wonderful thing - with the use of reconstructions, computer graphics, numbers, data. They mentioned everyone - the Podolsk cadets, Katukov's tankers, the Moscow militias, and they did not even forget to remember the entourage with a kind word. They told about the contribution of both civilians and civil servants to the victory near Moscow - in short, they talked about everything and everyone. We talked about all the German generals and commanders who were advancing on Moscow. They did not tell only about divisions from Kazakhstan ... Even the name of Panfilov did not sound.
        Until the last minute of the film, I was expecting a mention of the 8th Panfilov Guards from Alma-Ata and the 312th Rifle Division from Aktyubinsk. Nifiga. They were not there according to the authors of the film "Battle for Moscow". There were Katukovites, there were cadets, there were militias. And there were no Kazakhstanis.
        1. Qazaq
          Qazaq 11 October 2013 21: 09
          0
          Marek, you are a real Batyr. , to argue with gnats do not respect yourself. In kuya, did they give up on us at all? I do not understand. Mermaids have always been rude and uncouth. And we will still go on and on. And the truth is on our side. This is our land, this is our history, this is our path. You should not spend so much time arguing with russians. Not worth it.
          1. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny 12 October 2013 09: 10
            +3
            I absolutely disagree, fellow countryman. Russians are a big nation. It has enough stupid cheers and patriots, and normal Russian patriots who respectfully and without arrogance to their neighbors.
            Yes, the Russians are a rude people, but we, Kazakhs, are not made of violets either. And rightfully the Russians can accuse us of being a rude nation too.
            In fact, between the Russians and the Kazakhs there are much more similarities than differences. For more than a thousand years, our ancestors have been boiled in one pot. Relations between Kazakhs and Russians were strong not only during the Kipchak freemen or Horde, but also during the Kazakh Khanate.
            The co-founder of the Kazakh Khanate, Sultan Zhanibek, once left to rule the Crimean Khanate (Kerey remained a khan in the Kazakh Khanate), and after the local Crimeans pushed out a stranger Zhanibek, he left at the invitation of the Russian tsar to Muscovy, where he most likely ended his days .
            The first military-political alliance between specifically Kazakhs and Russians was concluded between Ivan the Terrible and Khan Khaknazar. This coalition fought against the Crimean Khanate, the Nogai Horde and the Siberian Khanate.
            The nephew of the Kazakh Khan Taukel - Uraz-Muhammed (Oraz-Muhammed) commanded the Russian army under Tsar Ivan Godunov in the Crimean direction, died at the hands of False Dmitry.
            Relations between the Kazakh Khanate and the Moscow Principality (Russian Empire) begin not from the time of the khan of the Youngest Zhuz Abulkhair, but from the very formation of these states on the remains of the Horde. And it is noteworthy that these relations were almost always allied.
            We can scold the net, but in real life we ​​always find a common language. We are too similar in mentality, and therefore for us most things are perceived equally positively or equally negatively.
            Both nations have their own poorly concealed ambitions, derived from our imperial / Horde essence. And when our peoples have a common ideology and a common empire, we effectively complement each other.

            The Turkic heritage in Russian culture is enormous, and Russian culture as a whole has beneficially and strongly influenced the culture of Turkic peoples. Sometimes everything is so mixed up that you can’t figure out where - them, where - ours.

            What is a good union of the steppes and eastern Slavs? Expressed in Gumilev images, we have different periods of passionarity, which means we in conjunction with each other constantly in a state of development. The day before yesterday, the steppes built an empire where inert Russians lived, yesterday the Russians built an empire where inert steppes lived, today we see that the Russians are gradually slowing down, and the Kazakhs, on the contrary, are quickly becoming passionate. In short, a two-stroke engine laughing And therefore, the outer perimeter of the border has not changed for more than a thousand years since the time of the Türkic Kaganate))) The relationship between the Eastern Slavs and the steppe inhabitants is a guarantee of the survival of both our peoples. Otherwise, we are doomed, because there can always be such a moment in future history when the Russians will yawn, indifferently watching how they are being destroyed by the German (Anglo-Saxon) peoples, and the Kazakhs will not be around. And accordingly, there may be such a period when the Kazakhs will become " independent "in a mathematical cube, when every Kazakh will be indifferent to another Kazakh and then we will be swallowed up by our eternal enemy in the person of China. It will be bad for us without allies.
            Well, swearing about history is fine. The main thing is to know when to stop)))
            1. Qazaq
              Qazaq 12 October 2013 17: 15
              -1
              Maybe Marek. But I'm talking about RuNet. There is so much shit and it's Russian. And it is indestructible. Only touch him and that's it: - stink, screech, abuse, insults there will be no end and edge. In RuNet, bad Russian becomes bad squared, normal becomes a moron. I meant it. Today, we Kazakhs need to look more at the world, at Asia, Europe, the States. If we don’t communicate with Russians about 15-30 years, nothing terrible will happen. And rather, even this will be more beneficial for the Kazakhs. If we have a lot of similarities and similarities, then this is not good and we need to get rid of it. From our "Russianness". Marek, if you noticed Kazakhs have little argument with the Russians. Earlier, like you, you explained something to Russian, proved and got angry that very few Kazakhs with facts in their hands can reasonably and convincingly prove anything to Russians. And then it dawned on me - we are Kazakhs much smarter than Russians. Most Kazakhs are completely NATURAL not have any national disagreement. At least with someone - with the Russians or with someone else. Of course there are debaters - but they do not make the weather, and even then in the treasury. Kazakhs quickly lose interest in the subject of any dispute, because they know in advance how the disputes end. I am really proud that our people are just like that, because we have something to be proud of - I mean what has been done. Because it’s better to argue than wallow and sit back. But we are not messing around and therefore disputes are not needed. They’re not talking about anything. Many Kazakhs have computers and they speak Russian brilliantly. BUT. Do not argue - why ??? It’s better to do business, but not argue. I strongly doubt that truth is born in disputes. Anything is born there, but not her. Especially in RuNet. The Russian language has already been so "fucked" that what is said in Russian can have 2-3 meanings now and 2-3 more meanings in 10-50 years. I threw these things - the Internet can finally not to communicate, but more in order to lay out something useful and take something useful from it. And if we Kazakhs knew English, how wonderful it would be! There is so much knowledge and necessary for a modern person that just Ah and Oh. But in Russian everything translated loses its meaning, the essence escapes. Then, the Russian language itself is not structured and it is VERY difficult to convey any scientific work or scientific idea in Russian. Himself repeatedly convinced of this. Russian is not a language for science. Rather, for boltology. And the Russians are very strong in this. And arguing with the Russians means simply becoming like them. I am terribly pleased that now Kazakh youth is not bad at speaking English. Kazakhs are generally prone to languages. And the Kazakhs need to know English as Russian - this is an honorable task and we must strive for it. And in English - it’s YES, be able to argue, be able to defend your point of view. But Russian and Russian are already working off. Learn Russian mate or what? Do not be. I just read your comments - damn it, Marek you are really Batyr. To have so much strength and patience. Maybe it's better to learn English? :-) Russians are not capable of languages. You just say something to them in English - they will immediately agree with you (how the Papuans will immediately shake their heads) and will not even argue.
              1. Nagaibak
                Nagaibak 13 October 2013 21: 23
                +1
                Qazaq "There's so much shit here and it's Russian."
                Who would say .... pile it up like that. Not - rang it will be more exact. Such a cultural Kazakh lad caught ...
          2. Nagaibak
            Nagaibak 13 October 2013 21: 16
            0
            Qazaq "Marek, you are a real Batyr., Do not respect yourself with the Russians."
            When they argue then they are mutually enriched.
            Qazaq "Rusaks have always been rough and unpolished."
            Wow ... what a cultural Kazakh. Not rough and hewn, already hooked not for that.
  22. Sergeu Berus
    Sergeu Berus 27 October 2013 18: 12
    0
    Quote: Humen
    Glorious pages of our history. Glory to the soldiers of Russia.

    In the fifteenth century, Don Cossacks appeared on this river, traveling around the Khvalynsk (Caspian) sea. They wintered on the banks of the Yaik, while still covered in forest and safe in their solitude; in the spring they again set sail, robbed until late autumn, and returned to winter. Moving all up from one place to another, the Cossacks chose a place for permanent residence on the Kolovratnoye tract sixty miles from Uralsk. At that time, some Tatar families wandered in the neighborhood, separated from the Golden Horde uluses and looking for free "lives" on the banks of the Yaik. From the beginning, both tribes were at enmity with each other, but later on they entered into friendly relations. Cossacks began to receive wives from Tatar uluses. There is a legend about those times: Cossacks, passionate for a single life, put among themselves to kill newborn children, and abandon their wives when speaking on a new campaign. One of the chieftains, by the name of Gugnya, was the first to break the cruel law by sparing a young wife, and the Cossacks, following the example of the chieftain, submitted to the "yoke of family life." Until now, enlightened and hospitable, residents of the Ural coast drink at their feasts for the health of their grandmother “Hugniha.” | Tobolzk.ru