Military Review

Quality for stupid

194
Grabin had in his memories that the Red Army GAU demanded that his divisional gun could withstand 10 000 shots from his divisional gun. Grabin used specially alloyed steel and achieved the required vitality. After the war, with great difficulty, they found a cannon that went through the whole war and survived. She managed to make all 3,5 thousands of shots


ON THE SOURCE OF ANECDOTES

Once I wrote an article about some suspicious fuss with jokes around the remnants of the Russian car industry. One reader wrote to me in the comments about the validity of these my suspicions:

“Sorry, Yuri Ignatievich, I am also a teapot, but here’s what I’ve come across in the Independent Military Review (I’m giving excerpts only):

“Yes, it was precisely anti-Soviet jokes, where the Kremlin’s inhabitants of heaven were often the main figures, foreign apologists of the bourgeois way of life and thinking assigned the role of shock troops, who were charged with the task, if not to destroy the Soviet power, then to undermine its foundation, stain the facade, and there , you look, plaster will fall down first, and then the walls ...

Under the pretext of fighting the ideological expansion of the West in one of its outposts - in the anti-Soviet magazine "Continent", published in Paris - as a result of a multi-stage sophisticated combination, two Lubyanka agents were introduced ...

The process of “anecdotesting” or “anecdotating” was secretly captured on videotape and sent from France to Moscow, to Dzerzhinsky Square, and then to the Kremlin ...

Quality for stupid

So, January 1984 of the year. Paris. Editorial Board of Continent. Conference hall amphitheater. On the electronic display are burning letters that make up the phrase: “The most important art for us is the creation of political jokes.” In the hall - about twenty people. Someone is sitting, someone is walking in the aisles between the rows. All those present - former members of the Writers' Union and the Union of Journalists of the USSR, at different times and on different roads, reached Paris.

On the meeting filmed by a hidden video camera, one question was on the agenda: “Why did Brezhnev meet the guests, leaders of foreign countries at the airport, at the plane, and Chernenko meets them in the Kremlin?”.

Whether the conclave met on Monday, or the "magicians of the political anecdote" were hangover, but the creative process did not go well at first. The presenter, “toast-master” of the Paris masquerade, formerly known Soviet writer, laureate of the Leninsky Komsomol award, Mikhail Kheyfets, in vain calls the assembled non-print word masters to gather their thoughts and offer their answers to the question. Finally, having lost his temper, he screamed hysterically: “So what are we going to load our computer with today ?!”.

Indeed, all the proposals of the participants of anti-Soviet gatherings, that is, the answers to a given topic, however unexpectedly absurd they were, are recorded on a magnetic tape, which is subsequently processed using an electronic machine, the forerunner of a modern computer. The machine spits out the fruits of its electronic inferences an hour after loading “ore” into it — replicas of wits in exile.

Computer spitting in the form of punched cards is immediately decrypted by retired cryptographic officers who previously served at NATO headquarters in Brussels. In conclusion, the answers issued by the machine are considered by the high priests of "Continent". "

The question arises - what, after the restructuring and destruction of the USSR, these masters of the anecdote were left without work, and this Heifetz now asks for alms on the Champs Elysees?

Sorry to repeat, but here is a similar example. In the 70s, the Israeli secret services created the organization Union of Council for Soviet Jews in the United States to export Soviet Jews to Israel. The literal translation of this organization "Union of Soviets for Soviet Jews." The organization acted very successfully, for example, the Israeli Prime Minister 06.12.07 thanked the Soviet Jews for the collapse of the USSR: “Speaking at a ceremony on Wednesday the 40 anniversary of the beginning of the struggle for Jews living in the USSR for the right to leave for Israel, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said that the victory they won in this struggle was one of the reasons for the collapse of the Soviet Union. ” And ex-minister Nathan Shheransky declared: "... the victory won by Soviet Jews in the struggle for the right to leave," significantly pushed the Soviet Union to disintegration and thereby changed the world order. "

So, the Jews won, the USSR is already 20 years old, no, the Jews can go anywhere, and the Union of Council for Soviet Jews is not going to curtail their work. The organization is headed by director Micah Naphthalene, the main staff of its leaders is divided into two parts: based in the United States and located in the territory of the former USSR. In the former USSR, employees of Union of Council for Soviet Jews run 9 directors of foreign offices: in Bishkek, Riga, Tbilisi, Lviv, Almaty and four directors operate in Russia - one in St. Petersburg and three in Moscow. All these directors are operating underground in the CIS, their organizations and the directors themselves do not show their connection with their Jewish-racist masters in the United States, and all bureaus in Russia have secret names with official activities that are lent. In St. Petersburg, the bureau of Union of Council for Soviet Jews has the name “Harold and Selma Light Jewish Center for Human Rights”, and in Moscow, the Moscow Bureau for Human Rights, the director of this bureau, Alexander Brod, “protects” the FSB and the Prosecutor General’s Office and Putin appointed him a member of the Public Chamber to represent the people of Russia.

Why? Probably, because the USSR is already a past stage, but Russia has not yet been destroyed, therefore the Union of Council for Soviet Jews is still needed. But for the same reason — Russia has not been completely destroyed — we also need those who compose anti-Russian jokes. Is not it?

QUALITY

From the anecdotes, it simply sticks out that Russian cars are of very poor quality and there are commentators who prove with foam at the mouth that this is the case. I repeat: this can be regretted, but one cannot get anywhere, - the mass of the ignorant to the people by quality means a blunt increase in engine power and “bells and whistles”. Meanwhile, the main quality of the car - the ability to take you from point A to point B with minimal cost.


I wrote that during Soviet times, Soviet cars were quite willingly bought in the West. The question arises - it turns out, there were fools in the West who did not understand the advantages of high-quality Renault over low-quality Zhiguli? Let's talk about fools and what fools mean by the mysterious word "quality."

Look at the quality of the first part of the literacy or the general culture of man. There are literate people who have gained knowledge in school or in practice, giving them the opportunity to understand the structure of the car - people who are able to perform at least elementary repairs themselves, to operate the car without accident and economically. And there are, so to speak, blondes, who have memorized words in school, without understanding what these words mean, they absolutely do not understand how the car is constructed, or how to repair it in the elementary case. Accordingly, for a literate person, some kind of minor breakdown is just an annoying nuisance, but for a blonde it is a tragedy. Hence, for an uncultured person, quality is when nothing ever fails, even if you stupidly do everything necessary to make it break.

Is it possible to build, say, “Zhiguli”, which will never break? Yes, elementary! Soviet planes, by the way, were more reliable than Western ones, our spacecraft fell less often than American ones, well, what problem was it to make a car unbreakable? But for this, this car had to be greatly expensive in production, and the more reliable you want to make a car, the more disproportionately the costs for it would grow. Want to make reliable wiring? No problem - silver contacts with gold plating. Do you want to keep literate mode in motion? No problem - put the computer. I somehow had a Zaporozhets, I don’t even remember how its engine worked - I never paid attention to it. And Yury Luzhkov read something like that, it turns out, he paid attention to it. Spent a few days to disassemble the engine and to adjust the weight of all moving parts. He assures that after that the engine did not rustle, but rustled. Could this be done at the factory? Yes, there are no problems, only for this it was necessary to buy scales and put more workers into the conveyor and, accordingly, raise the cost of the car. Not to mention that these workers could, instead of this debugging, needed only by Luzhkov, build, say, apartments that everyone needs. It was possible to put on the design of the car especially strong alloyed and expensive steel, especially strong, therefore, expensive materials.

Grabin had in his memoirs that the Main Artillery Directorate of the Red Army (fools or enemies?) Demanded that his barrel gun withstand 10 shots. Grabin used especially alloy steel and achieved the required survivability. After the war, with great difficulty they found a cannon that went through the whole war and survived. She managed to make a total of 000 thousand shots. And if they had put the barrel simpler with a survivability of 3,5 thousand shots, then they would have managed to strengthen the armor tanks, also in need of alloying!

It was possible to build cars with reliability, like those of the West, but why? To satisfy blondes USSR? And who said that cars were built for them? And blondes, by the way, had nothing to be offended - trams were built for them. Do blondes have any complaints about trams, buses, subways?

Soviet cars in the USSR were sold at prices three times higher than the cost, respectively, they are likely to be very inexpensive in the West. Accordingly, those cultural people in the West who bought them had, in addition to Soviet passenger cars, the opportunity to buy an apartment, relax on holiday on the Cote d'Azur, etc., etc. Well, while Western blondes were forced to buy Renault or "Mercedes".

And now the other side of the question. Man descended from the animal and the animal instincts in it are preserved, in particular, the instinct is not to be the last in the pack. It is clear - otherwise the sexual partners will not pay attention to you. However, a person, still a person, and for him the way not to be the last in society is to win a place for himself with intelligence, efficiency, high moral qualities. And if this is nothing, if you are a stupid and lazy parasite? Then it remains to declare oneself as the animal claims - externally, that is, to show off. Declare yourself at the expense of something that others do not. It’s good to buy a Ferrari, but no, you can dye your hair green. Watch “Rollex” you can buy yourself, build an estate, in the end, pull your pants down below your knees. And current cars are no longer a means of transportation - they are a means of showing off useless people. The main amount of their costs is not intended to move a person from point A to point B, the bulk of the cost - show off.

This, of course, concerns not only the car, but almost everything. Sowing, before perestroika, common sense flashed through - they started talking about the packaging of goods, and even that, from the point of view of environmental protection. There was information that in Sweden milk in stores began to be delivered in tanks, and the Swedes buy it in bottles. But soon everything died down.

Today the price of a box of chocolates is half the cost - the box itself. In cigarettes, the cost of packing is 70%. Who needs it? They will say it is convenient! Not. This is, above all, mean! If we spent the resources of the planet on our own, even a comfortable life, it still didn’t go anywhere, but we spend them on a show-off and garbage, and this is extremely mean to future generations.



Finish the issue of car quality. Quality is what the consumer needs, and no more. Everything else is a deterioration in quality. In the USSR, a passenger car for commuting to work, and, especially on a visit (how to drink ?!) was completely unnecessary, since we had excellent public transport. In general, the purpose of the car was rest. The wild coast of the Crimea or the Caucasus, and, especially fishing and hunting. In short, our cars were designed for off-road trips. And here you need to know that for a Western person, off-road is a dirt road without a hard surface. And even their military equipment is designed mainly for such "off-road" (it is appropriate to recall the Germans in the 1941 year). And in the Russian sense “road” is where the Russian wants to go. And our cars, especially Zaporozhets, Moskvich and, of course, the Niva are SUVs, and imported SUVs are out-of-asphalt.

In short, for a blonde with a show-off, our cars are a bucket of nuts, and for an intelligent man with a penchant for satisfying hunting excitement, this is what the doctor has attributed.

True, I wrote all this about Soviet cars, and I’ll be careful not to say anything about Russian ones.
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  1. kostik1301
    kostik1301 7 October 2013 09: 00
    23
    Western advertising honed our brains well ...
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. bomg.77
      bomg.77 7 October 2013 09: 40
      35
      Quote: kostik1301
      Western advertising honed our brains well ...
      Many people born in the USSR during 20 years developed immunity to advertising. Even this would have come to the youngsters. In Soviet times, there was the magazine Wick, just on the topic of packaging, why overpay for throwing it in the trash. Article +
      1. abrakadabre
        abrakadabre 7 October 2013 10: 21
        24
        Daily painting in any store: Everything is packaged in film. When you ask to serve something from the counter, what is being asked is served to you by putting it in a bag. Having reached the checkout, everything you purchased is put in a large package. At the output you get a kind of matryoshka from many with a layer of packaging. Which many, having come home, are immediately sent to the trash.
        And this garbage is all very long-rotting in landfills and where not getting.

        As a child, I remember that more than half of the packaging was from rapidly decaying loose paper. I recall this fact with nostalgia.
        1. Cat
          Cat 7 October 2013 10: 30
          +5
          Quote: abrakadabre
          Daily painting in any store: Everything is packaged in film. When you ask to serve something from the counter, what is being asked is served to you by putting it in a bag. Having reached the checkout, everything you purchased is put in a large package. At the output you get a kind of matryoshka from many with a layer of packaging. Which many, having come home, are immediately sent to the trash.
          And this garbage is all very long-rotting in landfills and where not getting.

          In addition, when, before leaving the store, you go to the payment terminal to replenish your account on your mobile, you see a sentence on the screen: "Refuse to print a check - save paper, save wood!"
          Type, control in the head =)
        2. bomg.77
          bomg.77 7 October 2013 10: 59
          16
          And how many booklets, labels, advertisements are in the mailbox? Bulletproof bags for dairy products. Remember in the USSR, soda machines were standing on the street with one glass and no one was dying from AIDS, and now plastic cups are dying and you can’t die of anything .
          1. Avenger711
            Avenger711 7 October 2013 15: 23
            +1
            Well, the cost of a plastic glass is dozens of times less than a glass one, which was washed right there, that is, the apparatus becomes more complicated and there is water consumption, the glass lasts almost forever and does not decompose, the glass itself can stupidly be stolen.
            1. I do not care
              I do not care 7 October 2013 20: 06
              +3
              while I remember that Time, I’ll answer: from 10 it was stolen in one glass and 2 worked mostly for free)
        3. Mikhail3
          Mikhail3 7 October 2013 12: 59
          +6
          In my favorite store, there is an announcement that meat products need to be wrapped in paper. In the same, gray, soft, loose. They in it in the refrigerator do not spoil longer. But they don’t have such paper!
          1. abrakadabre
            abrakadabre 7 October 2013 14: 46
            +3
            meat products must be wrapped in paper. In the same, gray, soft, loose. They in it in the refrigerator do not spoil longer.
            And bags from it for bulk products
            And now these are sometimes seen only when buying pies and "bagels" in powdered sugar at fast food outlets. And even then, some kind of glued paper. Of course, it does not saturate the paper with oil, but the product does not breathe in it, and such paper rots longer.
        4. rereture
          rereture 7 October 2013 17: 39
          -5
          Well, the fact that paper is made of wood is somehow not important)) I’ll buy a package of film I will save the tree.)
          1. I am
            I am 10 October 2013 13: 09
            0
            make this paper from recycled materials, i.e. from waste paper !!!!!!
      2. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 7 October 2013 11: 31
        +5
        True, I wrote all this about Soviet cars, and I’ll be careful not to say anything about Russian ones.

        Now they talk a lot about the poor quality of VAZ cars. But for some reason no one remembers their price. What can you buy now for the same money? Chinese homo, where you leave for 2 years at best, and then sell at all is not realistic. And it is better not to get into an accident in the Chinese, if you survive, you are lucky, but you will not straighten the car, Metal is homogeneous. So for these grandmothers, the cap is on Semka.
        1. v.lyamkin
          v.lyamkin 7 October 2013 11: 52
          +1
          As for the busy inexpensive, and hence not very high-quality niche, in principle, I do not mind. But the question is: why do all our cars belong to this niche?
          1. Andrey Yuryevich
            Andrey Yuryevich 7 October 2013 14: 03
            +5
            I can afford a foreign car, but I don’t want it, I don’t see the point, I like to dig into the car, for the soul, I have not changed the ten since 2006, it suits me. and there’s always something to come up with a new one, but with a foreign car it makes sense to stay in the garage and communicate with colleagues, I like it ...
            1. 77bor1973
              77bor1973 7 October 2013 22: 27
              +1
              It's just that the absolute majority of our people buying a foreign car are convinced that they are acquiring a "perpetual motion machine" coupled with invulnerability ...
        2. Andrey Yuryevich
          Andrey Yuryevich 7 October 2013 13: 58
          +6
          Chinese cars are timeless! that is, bought and forever, FIG sell .... smile
      3. Nikolaitch
        Nikolaitch 7 October 2013 22: 42
        +2
        Fashion...
        Too many people have grown up with the hand of Western ideologists, for whom it has become fashionable to show disrespect or even hatred of Russian goods, technologies, weapons, people ... Russia itself.
        For me personally, over these 20 years, "fashion" has become firmly associated with underdevelopment and a synonym for guano ...
    3. experienced
      experienced 7 October 2013 10: 09
      29
      As a living witness of Soviet life, I can say one thing, the quality was normal for both cars and household appliances of Soviet production, the price was absurd, when a normal hard worker had to save up for several years on a car, denying himself everything, and a color TV cost more than 600 rubles. And the weakest point in the service was, the connections at the car service were the most "nishtyakov", and it was simply impossible to repair the car somewhere other than a car service.
      And of course, in Soviet production, the principle of "excesses is not necessary for the Soviet man" was in effect, and therefore no one even dreamed about air conditioning or power windows, as well as about automatic transmissions, although all this was in abundance on members.
      The quality of auto parts deteriorated sharply after perestroika, when numerous cooperatives began selling their crafts and restoring used vehicles. This created the myth of the breaking of domestic technology. IMHO
      1. stroporez
        stroporez 7 October 2013 10: 45
        48
        Quote: seasoned
        the quality was normal in both Soviet-made cars and household appliances,
        ----- I miss the quality of people more .....................
        1. velikoros-xnumx
          velikoros-xnumx 7 October 2013 12: 16
          +7
          Quote: stroporez
          ----- I miss the quality of people more .....................

          Similarly
        2. Max otto
          Max otto 7 October 2013 13: 44
          +3
          brilliantly.
      2. Sour
        Sour 7 October 2013 10: 48
        26
        Sorry, but when I was young I had a chance to work as a driver for 5 years. It was during the Soviet era. The new car received from the factory had to actually be sorted out, otherwise it was impossible to work on it. The drivers called the new car so - "assemble it yourself". The same was said by those who worked as tractor drivers, etc. An excavator classmate said: "The new excavator is worse than the old one, until you go overboard, it will not work." In the USSR, they did well what was done piecemeal (spaceships, submarines, etc.) or what went through military acceptance. Civilian production of conveyor assembly was done badly or very badly. As a kid, I worked at GAZ, on an assembly line, this is 1979, in front of the army. The culture of production is scanty. It was impossible to eliminate the imperfections made in the previous section, since for this it was necessary to stop the conveyor. As a result, the flaws were layered one on top of the other from site to site, and at the exit "Volga" very often did not start, it was driven aside by hand and then somehow reanimated so that it could at least leave the workshop. Everyone was chasing a plan, and no one was interested in quality.
        If the car was not on sale or to a taxi company, but by order of some government agency, or for export, then at the end of each section it was removed from the conveyor, collected separately, and then put back on the conveyor. I remember these cars - on the glass there were stickers "Ministry of Internal Affairs", "KGB", "special order of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union", "export" and so on.
        I understand that it is customary to talk about the USSR as a deceased - either good or nothing. But let's still tell the truth. Moreover, it is not so difficult.
        1. mamba
          mamba 7 October 2013 11: 21
          11
          Quote: Sour
          Civilian assembly line products did poorly or very badly.

          I don’t know, maybe I’m unlucky, but all the Soviet consumer electronics bought by our family literally "fell out" and needed constant repairs and adjustments. Domestic TVs, starting with the first tube (Rubin-102) and ending with the 4th generation, are a school for an unwilling radio amateur cursing installers and developers. Radios, radios, tape recorders, video recorders - this is a constant headache, sometimes with a tape drive, sometimes with an EPU.
          And so I first became a radio amateur, and then an electronics engineer. Now I’m fighting Chinese fakes for reputable companies. I am glad that at work I have to deal with real proprietary electronics.
          1. rexby63
            rexby63 7 October 2013 12: 00
            11
            Am I selectively lucky? In 1987 he made two purchases - a TV "Rubin" with a diagonal of 51 cm and a radio tape recorder "Sharp-800". Friends and relatives appreciated the TV quite restrainedly, they say, okay, it will break, buy more, but a Japanese radio tape recorder ... It was a circus without wheels with only clowns. They did not lick him for a little. At that time, I started dating my future wife, so she still jokes that she married me only because of the radio. All kinds of difimarmbs were sung to him - his design, his quality, and his innovations. In short, the Japanese broke down after two years. Of course, it was repaired, but the sediment remained. Yes, and Rubin is still working. I don’t know, it will make it to the 30th anniversary. He is now in the village, in the fresh air, can he be useful to electronic "pensioners"?
            1. Tartary
              Tartary 7 October 2013 16: 27
              +8
              And how do you like the Orsk refrigerator of 1970 release?
              He still spies ... Including a mechanical latch on the door: - click, click ...

              Frost betrays direct quality of the last century ... About how.
              1. POBEDA
                POBEDA 7 October 2013 18: 02
                +4
                At the dacha, the OKA-3 refrigerator broke down, they did not repair it, they took ZIS-Moscow out of the shed, turned it on - it works !!! 1954 year of release! It’s been plowing for five years, and at least henna! This I understand!
                1. abrakadabre
                  abrakadabre 8 October 2013 10: 15
                  +4
                  Extremely harmful device according to modern business. Indeed, for these half a century it was possible to produce and give you a dozen, if not more, refrigerators. Each subsequent one is more and more expensive. Shake you so much dough for it. And so ... Such losses. You are a pest !!!
                  smile
                  This, as is now accepted, is the lost profit, which is recorded in direct losses. By your fault, by the way.
                  Like, for so many years, we thought that we would earn so much, but really earned a zilch. And this means that we have suffered material damage. And not how you thought that your Wishlist should be reduced.
                  Here is such a theater of the absurd.
              2. I am
                I am 10 October 2013 13: 18
                0
                Yeah, and the Saratov 2 refrigerator has also been working for 40 years !!!
            2. I am
              I am 10 October 2013 13: 18
              0
              My parents have a 5th generation "Horizon" TV set that only broke down two years ago. And more than one repair. So, how lucky.
        2. Russ69
          Russ69 7 October 2013 13: 07
          +7
          Quote: Sour
          Sorry, but in my youth I had the opportunity to work as a driver, as much as 5 years. It was in Soviet times. The new car received from the factory had to be sorted out, otherwise it was impossible to work on it.

          I received two new cars in due time. The army has a new "Ural", with a KAMAZ engine. Practically nothing had to be done with it, it worked properly and normally. In civilian life, he received a new shishiga in 89. Trouble began with her as soon as I left the factory. I had to adjust the valve. Apparently they were not regulated at all ... smile
          And at home, in principle, everything I did, it adjusted everything anew from the clutch to the carburetor and that's it. I didn’t even have to stretch anything, but on other machines, there were some nuts that were almost tightened by the hand at the factory ...
          I don’t know, maybe I’m unlucky, but all the Soviet consumer electronics bought by our family literally "fell out" and needed constant repairs and adjustments.

          In my bathhouse there is a "Saratov" refrigerator, bought back in Soviet times. And threshes nothing properly, never repaired.
        3. kostella85
          kostella85 7 October 2013 21: 31
          0
          + + + + + + + + + + + + +
      3. abrakadabre
        abrakadabre 7 October 2013 10: 51
        11
        Two approaches.
        Soviet: the main thing is not to mess up during the break-in period of the car (the first 2-3 thousand km, if anyone does not know). Survived? You can ride forever.
        Imported: the main thing is that the car survived until the end of the warranty period. And then even the grass does not grow.
        :)
      4. Max_Bauder
        Max_Bauder 7 October 2013 10: 54
        +4
        I agree, the Soviet quality was super, but the minus was in the way you noted that only the elite enjoyed luxury. The rest of the people let the type walk in short supply.
      5. matross
        matross 7 October 2013 11: 17
        +8
        Quote: seasoned
        And of course, in Soviet production, the principle of "excesses is not necessary for a Soviet person" was in effect.

        Not a bad principle! Excesses are not needed by any person, not only Soviet. All excesses and show-offs are an eructation of a consumer society, the result of ideological defeat. If this consumer .. ideology is urgently not opposed to a new, healthy Russian idea (at the state level), soon we will all become the blondes that the author talks about in the article, regardless of gender ...
        1. abrakadabre
          abrakadabre 7 October 2013 14: 52
          +2
          It was just that a different approach was cultivated: send excessive skills, strengths, and means to creation and self-improvement, and not to stupidly measure oneself, who has a hundredth cooler.
      6. Andrey Yuryevich
        Andrey Yuryevich 7 October 2013 14: 05
        +4
        for sure! the grandfather-treshka neighbor God knows what times are alive and well, there are saffron mushrooms but no rot! and the motor did not understand, but went through two and a half circles ...
        1. abrakadabre
          abrakadabre 7 October 2013 14: 53
          +3
          You will also remember "Victory" with its body almost made of 2 mm sheet
          wink
          1. 10kAzAk01
            10kAzAk01 7 October 2013 20: 11
            +5
            The body of this "Victory" was specially immersed in galvanic baths, and the body had already been assembled, and after electrolysis it had a thin layer of coating, so after 50 years of operation they do not rust!
            1. kostella85
              kostella85 7 October 2013 20: 16
              +2
              Here are the dear forum users, Beckoning a couple of years ago the TOYOTA CROWN ball 78 onwards !!! it’s not like rust, it’s equipped with an electric drive for the rear sofa !!!!
            2. zub46
              zub46 7 October 2013 22: 08
              +4
              Plus in some places a layer of tin (bottom, sills, fenders), since the pressing equipment of that time was not perfect and with the help of tin solder they smoothed out all sorts of "accordions", dents on the surface of the body. And then priming and painting (pay attention!) With nitro enamels, layers 10-15.
      7. kostella85
        kostella85 7 October 2013 21: 30
        0
        I don’t argue about household appliances, about the quality of a car ............ ?????? big question: more than 30 thousand, not a single Soviet car could drive !!!!
    4. aksakal
      aksakal 7 October 2013 10: 52
      22
      Somehow, our KVN is laughing at Russian cars, but gentlemen try to scare Jews away from the Sabbath, and the Germans do not care at all, representatives of this nation, which is the most advanced in engineering and in the automotive industry in particular, take Russian cars as hot cakes. Proof of? Here is the link: http: //www.zakon.kz/4530215-nemcy-ljubjat-lada-bolshe-chem-cadillac
      .html
      Ah, Jews, Germans spoil the whole game for you in terms of denigrating Russian engineering! Tighten the demand for the Holocaust from them, so that it would be disgraceful for them to open your lie with their wallet! laughing
      As for the quality, I won’t argue with SAJ, but regarding the quality of the ENGINEER solution, I posted my opinion there in the link in the dispute with our Kazakhs and re-post it here:

      Aksakal:
      Sorry, but this is far from the same as DESIGNING a product from the same factory. Just one stage of the search and development work is worth it! A bunch of formulas, drawings in AutoCAD to pain in the eyes ... God forbid you make a mistake in the calculations!
      And so the vaunted Soviet engineers wriggled to no avail at soviet VAZs and ZAZs, producing low-quality and non-competitive products ... Yes, they didn’t even earn 120 rubles ...
      - Um, a week ago there was a message from Germany - there were even those very conscientious "Niva" in use. I mean, they are in demand. You read that post. The reviews there are like - like, "Niva" are inexpensive, that's why they take them. That’s the case with Range Rovers, which are 20 times more expensive and are also bought 20 times less! Moreover, it is presented in such a way that the Range Rover is a masterpiece of engineering, and the Niva is just what you just posted. And you are WRONG! It is expensive and sophisticated to create from obviously expensive materials, using obviously expensive solutions and not hesitating to complicate the products, because the selling price allows this - from an engineering point of view, the task is simple and completely brainless. And you try to create a "Niva". You are limited by a rigid ceiling of the selling price, and within these limits you need to create something slightly inferior in basic qualities to that (for example, in terms of cross-country ability), Range Rover. This is REALLY DIFFICULT. This is a real puzzle, a real difficult search for suitable technical solutions and shoveling with calculations of a bunch of options! Yes, you are great, you can immediately evaluate the work of Soviet engineers without even understanding anything about the specifics of the work of engineers. What specialty will you be, are you our appraiser?
      - This is my IMHO, if it’s wrong - I ask you to express your opinion to me.
      1. 123dv
        123dv 7 October 2013 12: 47
        +8
        Niffa, this is a song! smile
        My friend in Spain has been working as a guest worker for 10 years now. He writes that all the mountainous regions of the country use Niva exclusively.
        But recently, he watched a movie with Jean Renault as a resident of Corsica. The entire film is cut by the main character exclusively.
        Yes, and I dissect myself in the Niva.
        There are places in our large country where asphalt pavement exists only in the project. There is an alternative to the field - only UAZ. Foreign cars smoke nervously at the place where the asphalt ends.
        No, they drive of course, yes, but it’s painful to watch them sneak around the potholes where I just press on the gas ....
        But about UAZ a good movie - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRhaup0iwR8
        1. POBEDA
          POBEDA 7 October 2013 18: 08
          +2
          Some time ago I was in Monaco, so there city utilities go on the fields. Although the town is not at all poor, everyone could afford it, and now, on the fields ...
        2. kostella85
          kostella85 7 October 2013 21: 14
          +2
          Quote: 123dv
          My friend in Spain has been working as a guest worker for 10 years now. He writes that all the mountainous regions of the country use Niva exclusively.

          And I have friends in the Far East, in Transbaikalia, use ONLY LAND CRUISER 70,80,95 !!!
          1. kostella85
            kostella85 7 October 2013 21: 17
            0
            At the very "tune" loaf, almost all from hypochs !!!
          2. 123dv
            123dv 7 October 2013 22: 23
            +3
            I myself lived for about 15 years in Vladivostok. There, by 1995, domestic cars had completely died out, so your comment is accepted. However, my native country is wide, and besides the Far East there are many other places.
            Come to Altai, every fourth car there is a Niva.
      2. Zymran
        Zymran 7 October 2013 15: 13
        +3
        Quote: aksakal
        : http: //www.zakon.kz/4530215-nemcy-ljubjat-lada-bolshe-chem-cadillac
        .html


        By your own link


        At the same time, from the beginning of the year, the Russian car was chosen 112 Germans, while Cadillac CTS preferred 45 man. Interestingly, a month earlier, sales of Lada Priora were lower - only three copies of such cars were sold.


        Awesome success. laughing
      3. faraon
        faraon 7 October 2013 16: 44
        +5
        I won’t argue with you. But there is one thing. All the VAZ models which I had no complaints do not cause. I drove them on the roads of Israel for 15 years. An amazing car.
        Well, now "but", really the cars were made for the Soviet consumer, not demanding, and happy only because he has a car. And then there is a hobby, such as disassembly, assembly, adjustment, and other improvements. Let's start with the fact that all the plastic creaks, and subsequently crumbles in the hands, the backrest on the driver's seat is made of metal that does not lend itself to criticism at all (it had to be constantly strengthened to repair and subsequently put the seats from Skoda in general. Magnetic valves on carburetors are generally a separate conversation, and this is for all that export option.What can be said about those cars that were assembled for the USSR.
        It seems to me that the Russian auto industry has ruined his confidence that our cars will be taken anyway, And as soon as the second-hand from Europe appeared, he completely fell to his knees. People need bread and circuses - in this case, cars that start with the key and not the curve starter.A plant needs to reconsider the concept that the driver should not be a driver but only a driver, and you need to put a woman behind the wheel for a test drive, then the Russian auto industry will rise from its knees and start producing high-quality cars.
        And do not build three conveyors (one for the army, another for the national economy, and the third most dumb for the rural).
        remember how, after harvesting, the army handed over its cars to agriculture - so for five years in front of them was a line of drivers, because it was the highest quality car.
        1. aksakal
          aksakal 7 October 2013 16: 59
          +1
          Quote: faraon
          it seems that the Russian auto industry has ruined his confidence that our cars will take

          - there is one, but this is only one of the reasons.
          Quote: faraon
          To begin with, all the plastic creaks, and subsequently crumbles in the hands, on the driver’s seat the back is made of metal that does not lend itself to criticism at all (it was constantly necessary to reinforce it to repair and later put the seats from Skoda

          - so my post is that each product has its own price. You compare with the obviously expensive car created
          Quote: aksakal
          expensive and sophisticated from knowingly expensive materials, applying obviously expensive solutions and not hesitating to complicate products, because the selling price allows it - from an engineering point of view, the task is simple and completely non-puzzle
          . Yes, I understand that over time, these initially expensive materials, which do not creak, as their production volumes increase, are wandering quietly into products for the average consumer, and there you can easily reach the budget items. And just the grin in relation to Russian automobiles is caused by this fact that Russian technologists and marketers, as well as material scientists (they are not design engineers and workers!) Do not follow this path of the gradual cheapening of new materials, which would then be necessary the moment they rrraz! and apply, but continue to rivet precisely from what they were riveted from the very beginning - from the 60s of the last century! But this has nothing to do with the quality of the engineering itself, nor with the quality of the Russian car itself! In the framework of what this car is made of - it is made of high quality!
    5. Astrey
      Astrey 7 October 2013 17: 31
      0
      Quote: kostik1301
      honed our brains ...

      BUZZED the brain of near brand consumers (pseudo prestige) instead of materialized labor.

      P.S. I’ll be careful not to say anything about Russians.
      I subscribe ...
    6. Joker
      Joker 7 October 2013 19: 05
      +1
      Oh well, what nonsense, do not just tell tales about the fact that before and the grass was greener and the sky of pigeons. As for the consumer market for the population, we are there, in the USSR, which is now lagging behind both in quality and quantity.
      Meanwhile, the main quality of the car - the ability to take you from point A to point B with minimal cost.

      Bicycle with a motor, the best means of transportation. Pearl flat blondes nothing at all. The main qualities of the car are reliability, comfort and road performance, and AvtoVAZ will deliver the current with minimal cost, it doesn't matter that everything creaks and falls apart and the banal air conditioner with the gearbox (which has been installed in Europe and the US for a long time) has just been installed. The article is just soaked with ism. That in the USSR all chased after Japanese receivers and jeans, but ETOGES were fools laughing
      1. Wedmak
        Wedmak 7 October 2013 19: 17
        +1
        Then in the USSR everyone was chasing after Japanese receivers and jeans, but they were fools

        Don't know, don't know ... didn't chase. There was a "Sirius" radio tape recorder + records + radio. The harvester is such ... there were enough opportunities above the roof.
        1. alone
          alone 7 October 2013 21: 21
          +1
          whole generations have grown up on the quality mark of the USSR. hi
          1. kostella85
            kostella85 7 October 2013 21: 24
            0
            for example, the zil130 was honored with a quality mark - a good car, durable?
            1. alone
              alone 7 October 2013 23: 37
              +1
              wink read what I wrote. I did not say that everything that was with the quality mark was quality)) - I just pointed out that generations have grown on this sign
    7. Nikolaitch
      Nikolaitch 7 October 2013 22: 34
      +3
      Fashion...
      With the light hand of Western ideologists, too many people have grown up for whom it is fashionable to show disrespect and even hatred for Russian goods and technology, as well as for Russians and Russia itself. The phrase became familiar: I will leave at the first opportunity from this country. For everything ready ...

      For me personally, over the past 20 years, "fashion" is strongly associated with underdevelopment and has become synonymous with guano ...
  2. Kyrgyz
    Kyrgyz 7 October 2013 09: 09
    +4
    if for you the main quality of a car is to deliver you from one point to another at minimal cost, then you probably have nothing to laugh at in domestic cars. I try to be able to evaluate the other qualities of machines and more. Therefore, Russian cars cause a smirk and jokes laugh. Your assessment of imported SUVs is perplexing, believe me, they go off-road longer and longer and even with comfort
    1. Nuar
      Nuar 7 October 2013 10: 04
      +8
      Quote: Kyrgyz
      Your assessment of imported SUVs is perplexing, believe me, they go off-road longer and longer and even with comfort

      yea Yea. I've seen reports from the off-road competition to which the "goat" was driven. It was immediately announced: "We will evaluate the results by the comfort of movement."
    2. UVB
      UVB 7 October 2013 10: 49
      +8
      The steeper the SUV, the farther the tractor will run! wassat
    3. pensioner
      pensioner 7 October 2013 12: 00
      +9
      Quote: Kyrgyz
      our assessment of imported SUVs is bewildering, believe me, they drive off-road longer and longer and even with comfort
      Once we went fishing in the upper Vishera. Niva, UAZ loaf and Kruzak of the first series. When the road ended and it was necessary to force streams, sand, etc. Kruzak began to dig. He hesitated us so that the option to give up was seriously considered. Niva and UAZ overcame difficulties heroically, but overcame. This miracle of the Japanese car industry barely reached its destination. We were terrified of the way back ... But nothing happened. Although this Kruzak drank blood from us and on the way back pretty much ...
      1. tracer
        tracer 7 October 2013 16: 15
        +2
        It's cool that I heard this story from my lips from one of the participants. Wow .. So many years have passed. True truth ...
        1. pensioner
          pensioner 7 October 2013 20: 54
          0
          Well, TRasser! Write to me in a personal from whom you heard. You look, we find common acquaintances. The contingent was as follows: from Gubakha-3e. I am from Sverdlovsk, but I was born and raised in Gubakha. 3rd from Berezniki / Solikamsk (I don't remember the details ...) 1 from Krasnovishersk and 1 from Vai. We tried to get there - at 71 km. It is these 71 km. from Vai to the pillar "71 km." we made our way ... Year: 92 or 93. I don't remember anymore ... And right now there is a passage yard. We stopped going there ...
      2. jagdpanzer
        jagdpanzer 7 October 2013 20: 07
        +3
        I agree to 100% he often went fishing in the north in the first place, UAZ, in the second cornfield, all the other jeeps and other things were not even taken so as not to bother pulling out all these rovers, etc. Comfort yes, they agree better, but fishing and hunting will not take place initially in paradise conditions)), especially in the north)
        1. pensioner
          pensioner 7 October 2013 21: 11
          +1
          Quote: jagdpanzer
          I agree 100% he often went fishing in the north in the first place UAZ

          I agree 100% Only with a small amendment. It is UAZ 3909 !! where the "loaf" will not work, so there the "Goat" will not work. The "loaf" has an amazing track: between trucks and cars. How many times this very track allowed us to move where the "goats" did not pass. Well, another plus. According to our drivers, the "Loaf" is amazingly competently weighed. It does not have such an effect as burying the front axle. Himself an amateur in the field of driving. Despite the fact that in 71-79. drove his father's "Moskvich-412", in 72-77 he was perfectly controlled by the levers of the DT-75, and in military camps he gave up driving in the "Ural" and despite the fact that I will still sit at any equipment, I will think about it and still get there where necessary, I said to myself at one time: "Don't fuck it up behind the wheel if you can't really steer!"
    4. aksakal
      aksakal 7 October 2013 12: 07
      +8
      Quote: Kyrgyz
      I try to be able to evaluate the other qualities of machines and more. Therefore, Russian cars cause a smirk and jokes laugh

      -read the post above. You need one thing from a car, the Germans need another. What does laughter have to do with it? Take what you need, that's the whole conversation. Why make fun of something that does not suit you and was originally created not for you and not for your needs? For the Germans "Niva" is suitable for some criteria - they take it only the noise is worth it.
      Do you need a car to emphasize your own social status, but at the same time you do not have the opportunity to have several cars? - one - for status, another - for everyday driving, the third - for going hunting-fishing? And so you have to use an expensive status car for all these goals that are not quite useful for an expensive car? Well then, in fact, you need to grin at you, but "Niva" clearly does not deserve such grins laughing , it is designed for off-road driving and at the same time is a very inexpensive car - in terms of price-quality ratio, this is a very good offer.
      Blame Western manufacturers for your discomfort - they are reluctant to release what you need. Whatever status was, and was not afraid to go fishing -)))
    5. v.lyamkin
      v.lyamkin 7 October 2013 12: 27
      0
      If the concept of "minimum costs" includes both moral and nervous costs, then I agree.
    6. Evgeniy-111
      Evgeniy-111 7 October 2013 13: 20
      +4
      Several times I pulled imported comfortable SUVs out of the "off-road" (and not even particularly uphill, although in the fall) on a grinning "Niva"!
      1. vkrav
        vkrav 7 October 2013 13: 59
        +5
        Quote: Evgeniy-111
        Several times I pulled imported comfortable SUVs out of the "off-road"

        Well, it's not for nothing that they are called "parquet jYps"! Show-off, show-off ... Soyuz was exchanged for these cheap show-offs ...
        1. abrakadabre
          abrakadabre 7 October 2013 15: 02
          +4
          They also had quite off-road vehicles. But they lost the passion for the show off. And what began as Vilis, really Patrol or Rover of the first series (with continuous bridges, spring suspension, minimalism in amenities, etc.) from year to year turned into a pathos parquet under-jeep - re-car.
  3. Revolver
    Revolver 7 October 2013 09: 09
    30
    Today the price of a box of chocolates is half the cost - the box itself. In cigarettes, the cost of packing is 70%. Who needs it? They will say it is convenient! Not. This is, above all, mean! If we spent the resources of the planet on our own, even a comfortable life, it still didn’t go anywhere, but we spend them on a show-off and garbage, and this is extremely mean to future generations.
    For this paragraph alone, the author has 100500 pluses.
    1. v.lyamkin
      v.lyamkin 7 October 2013 12: 32
      +6
      In confirmation of the author of the comment: I recently bought chocolate and what I noticed with regard to 100-gram tiles: a little-known manufacturer, chocolate made from natural ingredients - 21 rubles, Babaevsky analogue and with a flavor identical to natural - 64 rubles. Chocolate from Korkunov - 76 rubles (I did not consider the recipe). I do not think that such a spread is economically justified.
      1. Revolver
        Revolver 7 October 2013 18: 47
        +2
        And I will add more. I don’t know about you, but our stars (and not so stars) of sports and cinema earn money by advertising anything, from fizzy drinks and feminine hygiene items to cars. The sizes of such advertising contracts are measured in millions of dollars. Essno firms include these advertising campaigns in the cost of the goods. They ... arena of value is not produced, but the loot is cut and sawed, and not only by "stars", but also by entire marketing departments, which are in every at least some notable company that makes consumer goods. And also huge (not in size, but in terms of income) marketing firms that "consult" the aforementioned marketing departments.
        Whenever possible, I try to buy not a "company", but my own brand of supermarkets. The quality is not lower at all (well, you cannot make the same oatmeal lower in quality without violating the requirements of the law on food safety, such as dirt, harmful impurities, etc.). Moreover, the price is significantly lower. The only "worse" - the picture on the package is not so catchy, and no baseball-basketball-golfer has broadcast on TV how much he loves this product.
  4. Dimy4
    Dimy4 7 October 2013 09: 13
    +8
    By the way, about the quality, not the automobile truth - Lithuanian milk producers can now say many thanks to their foreign minister, because our sanitary services found in their products some bacteria that were not prescribed by GOST. Loss of quality is evident, however, the guys have room to grow.
    1. lewerlin53rus
      lewerlin53rus 7 October 2013 12: 05
      +9
      Quote: Dimy4
      our sanitary services found some bacteria in their products

      The scientific name for these bacteria is Linas Linkevičius. This is a subspecies of bacteria from the genus "Prime Minister Boltologus" from the genus "Lithuanian" laughing
      1. pensioner
        pensioner 7 October 2013 12: 30
        +5
        Quote: lewerlin53rus
        The scientific name for these bacteria is Linas Linkevičius. This is a subspecies of bacteria from the genus "Prime Minister Boltologus" from the genus "Lithuanian"
        !!! +++++ laughing good hi
        Colleague! As a biologist, I dare to recall to a biologist that
        "prime minister boltologus"
        not the full name of this genus.
        The full is as follows:
        "prime minister-boltologus-whatisvoliticus"
        1. Djozz
          Djozz 7 October 2013 14: 05
          +1
          Blundered without thinking and provided with hemorrhoids, Onishchenko is watching!
          1. Walking
            Walking 7 October 2013 15: 57
            0
            Onishchenko is Russia's most important weapon laughing
  5. goldfinger
    goldfinger 7 October 2013 09: 16
    17
    Neighbor Belarusian. Why stereos, if you can listen to a cardboard "plate" on a pole, why do you need sets, if you can drink from a can, and on holidays - from a faceted glass. And so on, ad infinitum. ... For centuries Buddhist monks have had the same set of objects - 7 pieces. Orange toga, rice bowl, etc. Touched that the set included a strainer for filtering water, so God forbid, not to swallow a living creature - an insect. Well, not everyone can be Buddhists!
    And directions instead of roads are a shame, these are billions of folk money thrown into the wind (for burning fuel, repairing equipment, wasted time and health)! We must cry, not be touched. And build beautiful roads and cars!
    1. Nuar
      Nuar 7 October 2013 10: 08
      11
      Quote: goldfinger
      We must cry, not be touched. And build beautiful roads and cars!

      And also change the climate. Reduce the number of crossings through the "freezing point of water", raise the average annual temperature, and also increase the fixed minimum. And, of course, to reduce the distance between settlements.

      Pe Se. Goldfinger - if I were a blonde, I would be ashamed to admit it ...
      1. goldfinger
        goldfinger 7 October 2013 11: 53
        +3
        Quote: Nuar
        And also change the climate. Reduce the number of crossings through the "freezing point of water", raise the average annual temperature, and also increase the fixed minimum. And, of course, reduce the distance between settlements. Pe Se. Goldfinger - if I were a blonde, I would be ashamed to admit it ...

        I don't know whether to cry or laugh. If you take for granted the phrase - "in Russia (including the independent Nenko Ukraine) there are two troubles - fools and roads", then you are right. Moreover, one of the examples, not expensive, responded to my comment.
      2. max702
        max702 7 October 2013 12: 43
        +4
        Climate say ....
        1. abdrah
          abdrah 7 October 2013 16: 20
          +8
          There was such a story about paints for road marking - in Russia, an exhibition is being held in the capital devoted to road construction and repair, and among the participants was a company from Belarus that produces paints. They brought samples of paints that last for 2-3 years to the exhibition, but Belarus also had the latest polymer coating that keeps on the roofing felts 6 roofing felts for 7 years, the pride of production but potential buyers rounding brown eyes asked for 6-7 years ?? !! what for then we threw so much money into machinery and equipment ?? We need such paint to paint every 3 months! At that time, the company (I do not want to write the name, type advertisement) did not sell ANYTHING at the Moscow exhibition!
      3. Hort
        Hort 7 October 2013 12: 46
        12
        we had one illustrative example in the Novosibirsk region, I don’t remember the details anymore, but I’ll briefly outline: in 2005-2006, our Akademgorodok scientists developed a new road surface. Huber (like horse roofing was still then (Tolokonsky wassat ) praised, said: "The guys are Malazians!" and rolled up a section of the M-53 highway into this coating (somewhere from Moshkovo to Yurga, or something) as an experiment, so, yeah.
        Two years pass, and the coating is intact, i.e. scheduled repair is not yet required and there is no hint of the need for repair. Huber is again talking to scientists, they say, of course, well done, but the coverage is painfully expensive (!) And the regional budget will not pull it. Well, in the end, they abandoned it, continued to lay the old asphalt. Because it constantly requires repair (including due to temperatures), and with this procedure, the road management can cut the loot.
        And you say "freezing point"
      4. Evgeniy-111
        Evgeniy-111 7 October 2013 13: 26
        0
        And roll the whole world into asphalt, lining it before it!
      5. tracer
        tracer 7 October 2013 16: 27
        +2
        That's for sure. Russia will never be America. In any sense. Mother nature itself will not allow this. In a giant country, it is warm and hot almost everywhere. They shoot two, three, four or more yields of what else ... How do you like one such "feature? About the fact that the asphalt freezing point sometimes does not pass at all, so I will keep silent about this simply out of modesty .. Russia has its own path of development. ...... geographic conditions. And it is on them that any others, political and economic and social, are based ... etc. And who is interested in reading a good book by A. Parshev "Why Russia is not Amerka." clear, you will not regret it.
  6. From
    From 7 October 2013 09: 18
    +1
    Informative article. Its author and author of "Fathers-Commanders" are not the same person by any chance? That book was also useful (despite some fantastic suggestions for the future of the Russian army).
    1. Djozz
      Djozz 7 October 2013 14: 10
      +1
      Him, Yu. Mukhin Ch. editor of the newspaper "Duel", I recommend.
  7. nalexx
    nalexx 7 October 2013 09: 24
    +7
    believe me, they drive off roads farther and longer and even more comfortably

    such a saying goes: the steeper the jeep, the farther to the village behind the tractor wassat
    1. Andrey57
      Andrey57 7 October 2013 10: 02
      +9
      That's right. My friend pulled out Cruiser on our UAZ Hunter from a large puddle on a dirt road last fall. formed after several days of rains. The cruiser sat down tightly, and at AUZIK we drove mushrooms for three days in a row through the same puddle, moreover, in the rain. hi
    2. abrakadabre
      abrakadabre 7 October 2013 10: 28
      +8
      And usually not for the same tricked-out foreign tractor, but for plain-looking, uncomfortable, unwashed, patched and patched still by the Soviet peace tractor
      wassat
      Which for some reason everyone does not want to die and will pull any foreign car out of any ... beney
  8. Sashkessss
    Sashkessss 7 October 2013 09: 24
    +1
    It can be seen that it is boiling. BUT ... You used such a speech ...
    And now the other side of the issue. Man descended from the animal and the animal's instincts are preserved in him, in particular, the instinct is not to be the last in the pack. It is understandable - otherwise sexual partners will not pay attention to you. However, a person, still a person, and for him the way not to be the last in society is to win a place for himself with his mind, hard work, high moral qualities. And if this is nothing, if you are a dumb and lazy parasite? Then it remains to declare itself as the animal declares - externally, that is, to show off. Declare yourself at the expense of something that others do not have. It’s good to buy a Ferrari, but no, you can dye your hair green. You can buy a “Rolex” watch, build an estate, in the end, lower your pants below your knees

    You are confusing concepts a little. A person has always had and will have three instincts - "Eat", "Safety" and "Reproduction". You want to link in this article that those who are lagging behind the trend are not able to breed. Alas, here you used the wrong instinct. This is where the "Safety" instinct comes in. Man always tried to ensure that no one could enter his cave, that HIS glade in the forest would not be threatened, so that no one would eat his female. And little by little, through the efforts of Leni and the Technological Process (and they are interconnected, by the way), "Safety" has turned into "Comfort". And here your speech begins, about blondes and so on. They need cars that are "Comfortable". They don't need to go fishing and stuff. They need to drive in the city without bothering about repairing and replacing wheels. She can imagine such a car - she allows herself it, and it depends only on her. Does she buy it to show how independent she is? Let him show her business, you have a different opinion on her account. They bought her a car to ride? Maybe she "pumped", as they usually say among the people, but in her own way she achieved what she wanted, you must agree. And she made an opinion about herself.
    In general, you can argue here for a long time. If a person loves all the best and a new Ferrari is vital for him and he can freely afford it, then it’s stupid not to take it, fearing that people who are not able to make money on Ferrari will think badly of it. But anyway, a plus, they made you think.
    PS: I am the owner of green hair, dyed, because I wanted it so much winked
    1. Cat
      Cat 7 October 2013 10: 18
      +9
      Quote: Sashkessss
      You are a little confused.

      rather, you confuse it a little, warm with soft.
      For example:
      Quote: Sashkessss
      They need cars that are "Comfortable". They don't need to go fishing and stuff. They need to drive in the city without bothering about repairing and replacing wheels. She can imagine such a car - she allows herself it, and it depends only on her.

      the nuance is who and what can afford. In that palna, that for the sake of this "allow" these same blondes and others like them sacrifice time, family, health, and so on, maniacs for days at work - earning a wider djip, a larger apartment, a TV set less than an inch, an iPhone later, and so on. Moreover, we are no longer talking about the notorious comfort - how can machines differ fundamentally with a difference of a year or two, what can an iPhone-5S - what could not Athon-5? No, well, there are, of course, some small nuances - but how often does the owner of a fancy device use them, and does he use them at all? That's it. Most, after leaving the store, generally forget about the super-superior capabilities of their technology, and the rest of the time they use it strictly utilitarian, for that very trip from point A to point B. And no more.
      Moreover: often, if a purchase brings "moral satisfaction", then only for a short time. And then - the owner of the C-class begins to envy the owner of the S-class, the owner of Mondeo - the owner of the Mustang, the owner of the Prado - the proudly seated owner of the two hundred (who, in turn, looks longingly at "Sequoia", or even some "Lamborghini Diablo"). And at the same time, everyone crawls together at a speed of 1,5 km / h in the same traffic jam, next to the mossy grandfather in the prehistoric Moskvich. And they breathe in the same smog, perhaps chilled.
      Such garbage.
      Well, and in addition:
      Quote: Sashkessss
      If a person loves all the best and a new Ferrari is vital for him and he can freely afford it ....

      It seems correct if ... if the "vital necessity" was determined by a person independently, and not hammered into him through all channels, on all waves, billboards, banners, pages, and so on and so forth. Yes, if you have money, then
      Quote: Sashkessss
      it’s stupid not to take it, afraid that people who are not able to make money on Ferrari will think badly of it.

      - but if you don’t take it, then those who think badly already made money on a Ferrari. What so what, what on the forehead that on the forehead.
      1. abrakadabre
        abrakadabre 7 October 2013 10: 45
        +4
        That's it. What security is there! Rave! Just the same, the thirst for consumption and showing off actively promoted by the advertisement indicated by the author. Which, in essence, is a struggle for social status in a pack ennobled by civilization. And the status of the pack determines the possibility of better access to mating with the best partners and the best grub. In our society, the list is slightly modified compared to the above. No more.
      2. aksakal
        aksakal 7 October 2013 16: 45
        +1
        Quote: Sashkessss
        You are a little confused.

        Quote: Cat
        nuance in who and what can afford

        - Eco has thrown you into ethology already (the doctrine of higher instincts, therefore, ethologists often study monkeys) laughing laughing It seems like a Sabzh about the denigrating not only cars, but everything that Russians knew how to do, sort of like they should discuss the fact that the Israelis-Jews are trying to ridicule not only cars, but even Russian weapons on the pages of this site - there have been such attempts repeatedly, he argued fiercely. And you were not abandoned by military science laughing
        It seems to me that a person is a social being when a person feels the need for RECOGNITION. Without this need, people will no longer stray into groups, will be like cats - these creatures communicate only during the mating season. Well, etc. And how is this recognition achieved? And who can. Some at the expense of creative success, some at the expense of raising a family and then insanely proud of children, some at the expense of professional success. The latter is the most common way to gain recognition. Firstly, it combines recognition and many pleasures due to the high standard of living. Secondly, these successes are, as it were, very easy to put on in visible physical form - due to expensive cars, expensive accessories and other things. In short - see what I ride and what I’m wearing? So, I am professionally successful and therefore recognize me! Thirdly, the earlier moral prohibitions in the professional field, implemented in the form of rules for obtaining recognition, no longer apply. Simply put, earlier it was counted for recognition only if you really were a PROFESSIONAL and didn’t steal, but earned through your professionalism, now everything that helps you gain the visible physical form of professional success is counted - you just need to get it, and how you earned it - absolutely no matter. Even if you sold the soul of your mother to the devil, you will receive this recognition.
        It is clear that such a state of affairs and such dishonest exploitation of the fundamental human instinct suits only those who created this world - THE WORLD OF CHISTOGAN. And who created it? Yes, a few seeds from God's chosen people, they are interested in this. And they don’t want to know what the state of affairs, such an erosion of morality, can lead to catatrophic consequences ....

        Something I philosophized, although not a philosopher, but just an engineer. In short, here is my IMHO, and in my opinion, both of you did not get into the necessary instinct .-))))
        1. michajlo
          michajlo 7 October 2013 22: 15
          +2
          aksakal (1) KZ Today, 16:45 _131007 / pon

          Good day to all!
          Dear I agree with you in everything. You have touched upon a very important, I would say the FUNDAMENTAL topic.
          I will quote other people's words in today's world ...

          - ... I no longer have the will to be a people. What remains is a morally and intellectually finished group of people. The people are such as his mother is. Mothers however need men, who would guard them and give the future to their descendants.
          However, we do not have men capable of rebelling for the salvation of their families and their country. To be or not to be a scoundrel, for people it became only a question of whether to have or not to succeed. Well, for most people, success itself is already so needed that he stands above morality and above criticism. No crime was committed until the crimes themselves have been made public, and because of this, no one forces them to fight with a personal conscience. Those very best of them turn away from all public politics in disgust and they should no longer be considered in politics. Their truth is that people cannot be helped if each individually does not want to help himself.
          There still remains the possibility that everything significant or large is being executed slowly, by invisible growth. If in our insanity we go down to the border of our self-destruction, then I hope there are still men who will rise. From personal experience, I know that only when a person becomes powerless and poor, then it is possible that he will return to his original human freedom in assessing the meaning of life.
          1. aksakal
            aksakal 7 October 2013 22: 54
            +1
            Quote: michajlo
            To be or not to be a scoundrel, for people it became only a question of whether to have or not to succeed.

            - drinks
    2. Evgeniy-111
      Evgeniy-111 7 October 2013 13: 28
      -1
      And what is your main instinct from you?
    3. Grbear
      Grbear 7 October 2013 16: 45
      +4
      Well ... since you’re talking about animals (a list of instincts), then I saw a monkey at the wheel, but behind a loom or a culman ...
      Everything else from the evil one am
  9. mirag2
    mirag2 7 October 2013 09: 26
    10
    Very good article! It is good precisely for its courage, otherwise you cannot call a Jew a Jew, an extremist, a radical, too, only "orthodox", but the real role of Jews in Russian history, in the revolution, too.
    Famously settled down.
    But the Hungarian National Party held a rally against hosting the World Jewish Congress, because it was concerned about buying up land by Jewish businessmen, requested lists of Jews in power, and the Jewish Congress quietly retreated ...
    And in Ukraine, Jewish business feels very well. And while there such a mess, the lion's share of it will belong to the Jews who remember the pogroms. And Ukrainians will only have to clean the Norwegian fish heads.
    I don’t want to talk about Russia, but in that atmosphere of tolerance (we don’t need to teach us, we are by nature kind), a situation has already arisen of an obvious excess in business. Don’t you find it? (Based on nationality).
    But the Jews need to sue for the murder of 8 million Cossacks — a much larger number of victims than the Holocaust that imposed in their teeth. And let them pay. And it is imperative to close the visa-free regime, first of all.
    For there are VERY few Jews who consider Russia their real homeland, and the Russian people as their brother, and not their tributary, who owes them. But it’s not clear why? Why do we have brains?
    1. SASCHAmIXEEW
      SASCHAmIXEEW 7 October 2013 11: 57
      +3
      That's right, we are still an auknitsa, the celebration of this nation !!! The tsars did not in vain drive them out of RUSSIA !!! Already now, they have taken over nothing in RUSSIA, and if they are not stopped, we will be naked on a piece of land !!!
      1. aksakal
        aksakal 7 October 2013 21: 31
        0
        Quote: SASCHAmIXEEW
        That's right, we are still an auknitsa, the celebration of this nation !!! The tsars did not in vain drive them out of RUSSIA !!! Already now, they have taken over nothing in RUSSIA, and if they are not stopped, we will be naked on a piece of land !!!
        - almost every day I post indignant posts "about those walking in white in the deserts" - finally, the people, judging by these posts, began to quietly begin to see clearly. Let me explain what kind of "walking in white in the deserts". On some Jewish holiday, the Jews have a custom to dress in white and, by all means, cross some desert in Israel on foot, such as a symbol of a 40-year journey with Moses in the desert.
        And they showed once a group of such people walking through this desert, as I saw, I was already taken aback! - and there, in this group, the entire Russian economy is surnamed! Tin !!!! I'm still surprised - in total, this group has such resources that Putin, in theory, should not be in this world anymore! And if you add support from the American diaspora of Jews, then this is real strength. And here you are scolding Putin, like, why doesn't he change for the better in Russia? 12 years in power - but it won't improve! To be honest, I doubt at all that Putin has any chances to win anything at all - take another look at the composition of those "walking in the deserts in white" who controls which industry - and all the billionaires and the billionaires are being driven around empty! Outrageous - The Russian people created, after all, not only did they create 70 years of Soviet power, but before that some assets were created - and then some came here, conducted a special operation, even rumors go that the Israeli intelligence in 1993 shot at the Russian parliament - and they took the entire Russian economy technically into their hands. All the "brothers" in that empty walked in white - only Khodorkovsky was not there, he was absent, probably there was a good reason to be absent. There was also a good attempt in Kazakhstan - but we are Asians, Jews are not much like us, and when some Mashkevich or Giller, or Belovich or Blavatnik begins to play too big a role in the Kazakh economy - Kazakhs, although not very beautiful, but they begin to strain so much, their eyes turn red, protrude and perk up in everyone. These masters have to moderate their appetites, or even out of harm's way.
        As if I understand the dislike for Caucasians, but Caucasians are just boys in comparison with this folk. And I come to the conclusion - the Russians need to raise the national question and dot all the i's in this question! How would the so-called. The "world community" did not begin to howl that fascism began in Russia with a possible continuation in the form of the Holocaust - it is necessary to work out a national intelligible, fair policy and follow it in the future by public, nationwide discussion. To pretend that the national question does not exist, to follow further political correctness, that it does not matter what nationality the oligarch is over there, the main thing is that a good person is already like death. After all, the Jews themselves, not really advertising it publicly, are a NATION in the full sense of the word and every Jew puts the interests of his own nation at the forefront, while a similar manifestation of such behavior on the part of the same Russians (Kazakhs, anyone) will be subject to harsh condemnation ...
        And yes, by the way - the nationalization of an economic asset - this word is derived from the word "nation", which generally means "the return of the nation to its own and created national economic asset." Is the hint clear?
  10. GELEZNII_KAPUT
    GELEZNII_KAPUT 7 October 2013 09: 37
    +1
    I do not know how for everyone, but for me any breakdown is worth time and nerves, but as they say, money! And about the Russian car industry ... there are now normal cars in the field, "Patriot" for example, a wild beast!))
  11. Sunjar
    Sunjar 7 October 2013 09: 38
    +7
    The current quality of domestic cars really wants to leave the best, but all the same, when you are able to fix the breakdown on the spot, it’s very good, because when the foreign car stops turning on, you will open its figs and you won’t get anywhere. In this regard, I will give preference to our cars, especially in conditions of poor roads and outbacks.
    Also raised the important issue of the overpriced value of many items. The headlamp of a Volkswagen Tuareg costs 20 thousand rubles, the door - 50 thousand rubles. With all due respect to quality, the headlamp should not cost so much. And why did they cram thousands of doors on the 50?
  12. dumkopf
    dumkopf 7 October 2013 09: 52
    +2
    One of the facts of the hostility of Western civilization to the Muslim world, in the interpretation of extreme radicals, is a huge amount of garbage from packaging.
  13. DMB 1995
    DMB 1995 7 October 2013 09: 57
    14
    My IMHO:
    For some reason, none of my friends after owning a foreign car did not buy a domestic one. Yes, and I myself after 15 years of year-round operation of different cars just silently look at the owners of our cars as Orthodox masochists.
    And about the reliability of Soviet cars is not necessary laughing , the current "export" ones were reliable because it was the "Face of the USSR" and the serial cars were assembled on a leftover basis, since all the quality went to the "defense"
    1. Nayhas
      Nayhas 7 October 2013 10: 54
      +3
      Quote: DMB 1995
      My IMHO:

      Look who the author of the article is, this is Yuri Mukhin, the "famous" ripper of all kinds of veils from everything that is possible. In this case, he tears the veil off the opinion that the Soviet auto industry is a hopeless guano. Because the new generation has no idea what the auto industry was like, and its current state can be explained by the standard phrase "dashing 90s" and "everything was plundered by middle ... e liberals", then most likely a bunch of dull-witted patriots waving the flag "in the USSR would hurt yourself! " easily grab it thereby adding popularity to the author. As you can see, there are already comments supporting the author ... The poison has worked!
      1. Cat
        Cat 7 October 2013 11: 03
        +5
        Quote: Nayhas
        In this case, he is tearing off the view that the Soviet auto industry is a hopeless guano.

        As one Soviet leader used to say - you need to look at things wider. In the sense that the article is not so much about the Soviet automobile industry as about a consumer culture imposed on society. Consumption of everything in a row, bigger and more expensive, without hesitation - do you need this particular superhunny, or you can easily do without it. Well, the notorious double standards, where without them: on the one hand - a loud yell about ecology, frugality and others like them, on the other - we are intensely ruining natural resources for colorful candy wrappers, for the sake of the same consumption.
        1. Nayhas
          Nayhas 7 October 2013 13: 15
          +3
          Quote: Cat
          the article is not so much about the Soviet automobile industry as about a consumer culture imposed on society. Consumption of everything in a row, bigger and more expensive, without hesitation - do you need this particular superhunny, or you can easily do without it.

          Type in Soviet times was not it? People didn’t chase jeans, cars, TVs, fur coats? Worldly blessings are always welcome, at any time, there’s no getting away from it, and it’s ridiculous to think that in Soviet times there was no cult of consumption. If there was no cult of consumption, then the word DEFICIENCY would be empty and of little significance for the Soviet citizen.
          1. Cat
            Cat 7 October 2013 13: 55
            +4
            Quote: Nayhas
            Type in Soviet times was not it? People didn’t chase jeans, cars, TVs, fur coats? Worldly blessings are always welcome, at any time, there’s no getting away from it, and it’s ridiculous to think that in Soviet times there was no cult of consumption. If there was no cult of consumption, then the word DEFICIENCY would be empty and of little significance for the Soviet citizen.

            chased, who can argue. But, at the same time, all these races were condemned by the "public" morality - "whoever wears the Adidas company will sell their homeland tomorrow", and all that stuff =))) It's funny, but at the same time, such agitation somehow compensated for the passion for "shmutki". Again, in many respects all these races were provoked by those in power, who were supposed to fight them according to their position ... in the afternoon at the meeting, the party organizer crucifies about the "pernicious influence of the West," "Montana" and "Levaysah". It is clear that the effectiveness of any propaganda in this situation turns out, to put it mildly, none. How it all ended is known.
            Now the situation is a couple of orders of magnitude worse: the possession of "status" shmutka is raised to the rank of absolute virtue, and this is hammered into the head from infancy. Moreover, it is not so much the need for all these bells and whistles that is driven in, but "status". Wherever you spit - everywhere entirely "elite", "exclusive", "designer", "branded" and so on - clothes, cars, apartments, smartphones ... buy - and you are "in trend", you will not buy - you are a goof and cattle. Round the clock, at full volume, on all channels and in all publications.
            The same thing is in short supply. Okay, the USSR, where many things were simply not available. There was money, there was no buy. It’s bad, yes ... but now, at least recent reports about the release of the next iPhone - daily lines, crush, stress, heart attacks ... or lines for supercars - with a record a year before the start of production. Even the Union did not think of such a thing - to take a full prepayment for a product that exists only in the form of an exhibition sample. And for what is it all, in the name of which such ideals? And what is better than the notorious Soviet deficit?
            1. Nayhas
              Nayhas 7 October 2013 16: 37
              +3
              Quote: Cat
              Again, in many ways all these races were provoked by the powers that be, who were supposed to fight with them by office ..

              Well, Duc is a regularity, who is the most struggling with something, he himself is subject to this temptation.
              Quote: Cat
              Now the situation is a couple of orders of magnitude worse: the possession of "status" shmutka is raised to the rank of absolute virtue, and this is hammered into the head from infancy. Moreover, it is not so much the need for all these bells and whistles that is driven in, but "status". Wherever you spit - everywhere entirely "elite", "exclusive", "designer", "branded" and so on - clothes, cars, apartments, smartphones ... buy - and you are "in trend", you will not buy - you are a goof and cattle. Round the clock, at full volume, on all channels and in all publications.

              This is not the policy of a state, but the laws of business. There is nothing to be done. The only option is to completely ban advertising, but who will subscribe to it? But damn it, if a person dumps the duties of raising a child on TV, then what artist then blame the media for imposing consumer values? In Soviet times, no one imposed a thieves' cult on television, but in the courtyards it was in full swing and how many children from quite normal families went through the stage only because there was no time for parents.
              People have always been consumers; if possible, they have acquired for themselves what they would seem to not need. Well, why does the peasant woman need a beautiful dress, if there is a simple, more practical one in which she goes to work? Will it be more convenient from ruffles and embroidery? I saw people who have no consumer instincts, this is a homeless person. They don’t need smartphones, they don’t need costumes and fashionable shoes. Why, if there is an old jacket, and the shoes are regularly thrown into the trash, they don’t need to strain to make money for a laptop, it does not make sense to them.
              What you oppose is EXTREME. I agree with this because extremes give rise to obsession, which is bad.
              Quote: Cat
              but now here, at least recent reports about the release of the next iPhone - daily queues, stampede, stress, heart attacks ...

              Have you forgotten the daily queues for Finnish boots with a number on your hand and hysterical aunts? And not only for them ... What happened when a Czech set was supposed to arrive at a furniture store? Those close to the distributors paid in advance, plus they gave them a paw for the opportunity to get the coveted product later, which, in theory, they did not really need. So all this was also ...
      2. aksakal
        aksakal 7 October 2013 17: 30
        +6
        Quote: Nayhas
        Because the new generation has no idea what the auto industry was like, and its current state can be explained by the standard phrase "dashing 90s" and "everything was plundered by the middle ... e liberals", then most likely a bunch of narrow-minded patriots waving the flag "in the USSR would hurt yourself! " easily grab it thereby adding popularity to the author. As you can see, there are already comments supporting the author ... The poison has worked!

        - I supported SABZH. Has the poison affected me? I don't think I try to look at things objectively. And if the Germans take Russian "Niva" in larger quantities than other brands, then this is the fact that I have cited. And the Germans, the practical Germans, find in these cars something of their own, which Russian consumers cannot find. You are trying to compare warm to soft. Soviet cars were created for the Soviet consumer, who was supposed to need an inexpensive means of transportation in space. And the Soviet consumer dreamed of things that position him in society, in short, he needed show-off. It's kind of the same car, but completely different and for completely different purposes! How can they be compared?
        Just separate the flies from the cutlets.
        Quote: Cat
        In the sense that the article is not so much about the Soviet automobile industry as about the consumer culture imposed on society
        - It seemed to me that the SABJ was not about this, but about the fact that there are incessant attempts to hammer into the head of a Russian man HIS WINNER inferiority in relation to a Western man. How to do it? But how? Yes, constantly gouging him about his "uselessness", that everything that "he does with his hands and thinks up with his head is impossible to sell, because it was obviously done poorly precisely because it was made Russian!" etc!
        And if you look purely objectively, the Russians did not do anything worse there. They have their own technical tricks, their own handwriting, they like to make it simpler and more reliable, they don't really care about design and packaging, they don't really care, but "what instinct do you need to influence in order to successfully sell it?" running ahead of the rest of the world, and they most often occupy their niche in the market for practical buyers, who do not want to buy very dearly just for "what the brand is there", but are looking for about the same basic qualities and properties, but for a real and adequate price. But they, Russians, are informationally wet and wet, creating even collectives of joke writers, driving and hammering into their heads the idea of ​​their worthlessness, and just on your example, Nauhas, I see that this poison has begun to work!
        1. michajlo
          michajlo 7 October 2013 19: 46
          +1
          Hello dear!

          Thank you for a worthy answer! good
        2. Nayhas
          Nayhas 8 October 2013 05: 29
          +1
          Quote: aksakal
          And if the Germans take Russian "Niva" in larger quantities than other brands, then this is the fact that I have cited.

          Yes, it's clear where the legs come from. Did you read the news that the Niva is selling better than the Range Rover? Here it is enough to go to the sales figures to understand how important this is, in August 2013. sold 79 Lada Taiga. 79! 79 cars were sold all over Germany! Is this a "large number" for you?
          In any case, this applies to the present. In Soviet times, our cars were also sold abroad, but companies that bought cars in the USSR before they were sold on their market carried out their restyling and sometimes only the body remained from MADE IN UESESAR.
          Quote: aksakal
          there are unceasing attempts to hammer into the head of a Russian man HIS INSTANT second-rate attitude towards a Western man.

          You say that the poison didn’t work, but judging by these words, it stuck tightly in your brain. What makes trying to impose Mukhin:
          Jews enemies of the USSR abroad invent dirty tricks - there is a myth that the USSR made bad cars - from Grabin they demanded a deliberately unnecessary margin of safety, which was not used, because war - an increased margin of safety for a car is not needed because it increases its cost, see the example of Grabin - to ordinary a citizen does not need excesses in the form of increased comfort, excellent public transport around, and there is impassability outside the city, there is need for cross-country ability - a Muscovite, a Cossack and a cornfield can cope with an impassability better than SUVs.
          CONCLUSION: Jews abroad, the enemies of the people hammered into our brains the idea that the Soviet car industry is guano, and this is not so, because there are excesses for stupid blondes.
          This is a typical scheme of Mukhin, on the basis of axioms invented by himself without giving any evidence to hammer people the idea that everything was fine in the USSR, the enemies of the Jews invented a libel on her. People aged who had experience operating the domestic automobile industry and subsequently switched to foreign cars would not be such bullshit, but young people are being waged.
          "The second-rate Russians are one of the techniques of the same Mukhin and others like him. The industry of the USSR suffered from many ailments, including the quality of products. This ailment was caused by the extreme inefficiency of the industry, the quantity and the plan were higher than the quality. The directors of enterprises did not care how the product manufactured by him will be sold, the main thing is to fulfill the plan ahead of schedule. The interests of the consumer were generally of little interest to anyone. Knowing this problem, such as Mukhin act from the opposite: poor quality? do you want to say that the Russians are crooked? Who says this? Enemies of Russia, damned Jews in damned America (excuse me, Mukhin's Jews are to blame for all the troubles) !!!
          Mukhin and Co. dump all shoals of power on the people, and many eat it ...
          1. aksakal
            aksakal 8 October 2013 09: 34
            +4
            Quote: Nayhas
            The directors of the enterprises didn’t give a damn about how their product would be sold; In general, few people were interested in consumer interests. Knowing this problem, such as Mukhin act on the contrary: poor quality? want to say that the Russian krivoruky

            - Old trick - inflate the fly and minimize the elephant. At the same time, I do not deny the presence of a fly as such, that is, I do not deny that there were excesses behind the plan. But you do not deny the elephant, but the elephant in this:a new type of living arrangement took shape in the USSR, which lay in line with the main traditions of Russian organizational technologies, adapted to modern geopolitical conditions of the country. We call such a political economy system socialism. Its important features are the combination of economic and administrative, tax and business functions in a single economical management structure, so that a significant part of the public product was directly seized by the state without using the classical tax mechanism and was directed to the country's needs. The distribution of benefits in a socialist society was carried out taking into account the feasibility of the country as a whole. Such a system needed centralized planning, which had certain solvable flaws due to the difficulty of taking into account all the information and because of the difficulty of reconciling the various interests of the center and the periphery.
            Read on the next branch. By the way, about your fly - a plan is a plan, but if you drive products not in accordance with GOST, then not that the plan will not be counted for you - for you and OBKhSS could cry burning tears for the transfer of folk raw materials into marriage. And to sell the manufactured products to the consumer - the Ministry of Trade existed for this, this is its field of activity, and it also had a plan. The fact that the system was not flexible enough did not respond quickly enough to the needs of the population - this is also a fly. In real life, they tried very hard to please the population. I remember the surge in demand for chewing gum. The Soviet, in particular the Kazakh food industry, quickly responded with the release of Sagyz chewing gum, however, it was wooden chewing gum, you break your teeth, the nodules hurt for a long time.
            So still you had a fly. And this could be slammed by the light, strictly dosed tolerance of imports from the USSR - and our industry would revive in a fit of competition. Look at Serdyokov and I, and we are all freaking out, meanwhile, nevertheless, Taburetkin did one good deed - he was well frightened by the prospect of fierce competition, the Russian, let's be honest, sloppy hacked military-industrial complex. But now the military-industrial complex understands everything perfectly and is moving fast.
            Do not inflate flies unnecessarily - for this is a blown fly anyway, nothing more.
          2. Misantrop
            Misantrop 8 October 2013 10: 26
            +2
            Quote: Nayhas
            USSR industry suffered from many ailments, including product quality. This ailment was caused by the extreme inefficiency of industry, the quantity and plan stood above quality. The directors of the enterprises didn’t give a damn about how their product would be sold; In general, few people were interested in consumer interests.
            And what, the current capitalist business owners are very interested in the QUALITY of the products? Or is it more important to them how this junk will be SOLD? Maybe you shouldn't confuse warm with soft? How many years did it take the former Soviet people to realize that the concepts of "west" and "quality" are not synonyms at all? And why? Could it be because imported goods were subject to STATE control before being delivered to the USSR?
            Cars, yeah. Toyota, BMW and Audi. But besides them, there is still a wild amount of Chinese trash, and the German proverb should not be forgotten: "Any car sooner or later turns into an Opel" ... lol
            Or take products. Previously, you could go to the store absolutely calmly, buy ANY canned food and eat calmly, without fear of poisoning. Or feed the baby. Will you risk now? Why is it now Belarusian canned food that is being swept away from the shelves, although they are not cheap? And clothes, shoes, household appliances, etc.? Flies around - just to hell, but you still run after the cutlets. How many around, amid the abundance of sausage varieties, is it NATURAL, without soy, hoofs with skin and other rubbish? ..

            I am amazed with modern youth. They have already drunk on the very nostrils of this capitalism, and all the same they continue to sing old fables about foreign quality (at the same time, mothers themselves are the rubbish with which all the stalls are littered around). Or are these fables MUCH more convincing than their own eyes?
    2. Misantrop
      Misantrop 7 October 2013 12: 33
      +4
      Quote: DMB 1995
      And about the reliability of Soviet cars is not necessary, the current "export" was reliable, because it was the "Face of the USSR" and the serial cars were assembled according to the residual principle
      Toyota Hilux - a reliable car? Fresh from 2013, from the capital's salon? And its components, also branded (!), From the same salon? Then WHY is this *** th kung SO SO flowing that all things are floating in the rain, like in an aquarium? And this one is already THIRD (!), Changed under warranty ...

      And the 21st Volga continues to ride, for the sixth decade already. The same as in the photo in the article, with a deer, only a blue one. Plain serial off the assembly line. It breaks periodically, not without it. It’s just that it’s NEVER happened that she, having broken down, didn’t reach the garage under her own power (even if something is covered along the road HERE, and not back) ...
      1. DMB 1995
        DMB 1995 7 October 2013 16: 43
        +1
        and how many times have the hilux broken since the purchase? What is the total mileage of 21 over 60 years?
        1. Misantrop
          Misantrop 7 October 2013 17: 29
          +2
          There were NO questions to Hailux himself, even though he had already managed to run from Moscow once to Minsk, and the other to Crimea and vice versa. But the kung has REACHED, things had to not only be dried, but also squeezed beforehand.
          And the 21st has a little more than 200 runs, only in the Crimea and around it. It’s not as comfortable as it’s on modern ones, but on the road it is openly respected (everyone is for some reason sure that sticking into a pole is MUCH safer) lol In that crowd that happens on the roads of Crimea in the summer, a rather convenient property. And another interesting feature that has never been seen anywhere else - you can safely open all 4 windows when driving on the highway in the summer. At the same time, you are not afraid that you will be pulled out of the couch on the oncoming flow - there is only a light comfortable airflow, excellent aerodynamics
  14. sigdoc
    sigdoc 7 October 2013 09: 58
    +4
    Prior to the Khrushchev thaw, great attention was paid to the appearance and quality of goods and they were no worse than in the rest of the world, the world exhibition of 1937 confirms this, so jokes are not reasons but a consequence, and their main purpose is to emphasize the artificially organized shortcomings of the USSR. It’s stupid to buy a bucket if have the opportunity to buy a good car
  15. shitovmg
    shitovmg 7 October 2013 10: 01
    +5
    That's right! I have 1 driver class, all categories, but I will never buy a car, because I need to move from point A to point B, and we sell everything you want on wheels for incredible money, just not simple vehicles. So I will ride the "Voskhod" until the end of my life ...
  16. Per se.
    Per se. 7 October 2013 10: 12
    +8
    "If we were to spend the resources of the planet on our own, albeit a comfortable life, this would not go far, but we spend them on show-off and garbage, and this is extremely mean in relation to future generations." Money and profit, the main goal under capitalism, everything else is secondary, and it will develop only when it increases MONEY and PROFIT. For this, the cult of CONSUMPTION was created. If it will be possible to add food, medicines, the same cars with impunity, and have super profit, do not hesitate, and the quality will become secondary. The author, for sure, will begin to criticize many, but, if you do not go to extremes, the author is right. All religions teach moderation and abstinence, but how many of those who consider themselves believers follow the commandments? Now, in principle, it is already possible to do ETERNAL things, but then there will be no sales growth, no profit. Many functions that the owners of cell phones, cars and other equipment pay for are not in demand by the owners, they do not need at all. Moreover, the need for service and a monopoly on a certain type of repair, advertising of updates, is deliberately pursued by the manufacturer, this is also a profit strategy. Things are thrown away only because they have not become fashionable, and this applies not only to clothes, but also to household appliances, furniture, in general, everything that advertising has reached. Thoughtless consumerism is immoral, and, indeed, in this it likens humanity to a virus, a parasite. I repeat, there is no need to go to extremes, but without reason and control, we really can turn our planet into one big garbage dump from packages and yesterday's things, depleting resources, leaving only heaps of garbage for descendants.
    1. abrakadabre
      abrakadabre 7 October 2013 10: 55
      +4
      Money and profit, the main goal under capitalism And a hypertrophied sense of self.
  17. Coward
    Coward 7 October 2013 10: 15
    +2
    Spent a few days disassembling the engine and adjusting the weight of all moving parts. He assures that after that his engine did not rattle, but rustled. Could this be done at the factory? Yes, there are no problems, only for this it was necessary to purchase scales and put more workers in the conveyor and, accordingly, raise the cost of the car. Not to mention the fact that, instead of this debugging, which was necessary only for Luzhkov, these workers could build, say, apartments that everyone needs. It was possible to put on a vehicle structure particularly strong alloyed and expensive steel, especially durable, therefore, expensive materials.
    It turns out that a violation of tolerances and production technology, as well as low quality control on the part of the engineering and technical department and quality control department, was a concern for the wallet of the Soviet people, and not low labor discipline and management's laziness to change something. "Where will they go? They will take what they give, after 5-10 years of queue. They will also say thank you"
    And the coolest thing
    Soviet cars in the USSR were sold at prices three times higher than the prime cost,
    Normally, they made production cheaper and worried about the people.
  18. Hektor
    Hektor 7 October 2013 10: 22
    +1
    Meanwhile, the main quality of the car - the ability to take you from point A to point B with minimal cost.


    Then buy a Cossack and ride on it.

    Western advertising honed our brains well ...


    Nuuu ... Advertising makes the BMW M 5 a cool car ?? Mercedes are good only because of advertising ??? Or Bugatti Veyron, which by the way produces the concern "People's Car" (in Russian to make it more understandable) also owes advertising ???
    1. Cat
      Cat 7 October 2013 10: 48
      0
      Quote: Hektor
      Nuuu ... Advertising makes the BMW M 5 a cool car ?? Mercedes are good only because of advertising ??? Or Bugatti Veyron, which by the way produces the concern "People's Car" (in Russian to make it more understandable) also owes advertising ???

      How else?
      Okay, there are M5 or X5, quite massive cars ... but the same Bugattey and other similar "super" - in not the smallest country of Ukraine, with not the poorest oligarchs and deputies - units are sold per year, at best dozens. At the same time, there is enough money for a luxurious office in the center, a crowd of well-trained manager-consultants, a massive advertising campaign, etc. Output? That's right - if you subtract all these costs from the cost of the car, it will be quite comparable to some mid-budget sedan. Where, then, does the notorious "goodness" come from?
  19. The comment was deleted.
    1. abrakadabre
      abrakadabre 7 October 2013 11: 13
      +6
      You just need to fully and completely follow production technology and establish normal quality control.

      By the way, never sold Chinese things in our country are not considered better than domestic. All other things being equal, in any market or store, a similar domestic product is positioned (and completely justified) better and costs more. Occupying an average price and quality niche. Really high-quality Chinese goods can be bought in China itself or in Europe, where they are exported. They’re bringing us ... shit.

      By the way, for some types of goods specific to most people, goods from the remaining stocks from Soviet times are almost like new from Europe. And in operation they justify the money spent one hundred percent.

      For example, drilling steel of medium hardness:
      Chinese drill - crashes or melts on a 5-20 hole, re-sharpening is pointless;
      Russian - lives 5-10 times longer under the same processing mode, does not melt, but dulls or chills rather quickly, lends itself to re-sharpening;
      from Soviet stocks - like German under the brands "Solingen" or analogues, continues to drill even if it already glows from overheating, slowly dulls and sharpens perfectly the second time, and the third, and so on, but a little less tenacious than the western brand.
  20. fklj
    fklj 7 October 2013 10: 35
    +6
    The Soviet "triple safety factor" is saving modern Russia. From nuclear power plant equipment to water pipes. The excess stock came in handy.
    As for cars, some brands, some of our factories, are still popular and help out their owners, thanks to the "Soviet hardening" in the design. Simple, cheap, reliable.
  21. abrakadabre
    abrakadabre 7 October 2013 10: 35
    +1
    The article is definitely good for a reason: there is something to discuss
  22. 128mgb
    128mgb 7 October 2013 10: 39
    0
    Quote: Nuar
    Quote: goldfinger
    We must cry, not be touched. And build beautiful roads and cars!

    And also change the climate. Reduce the number of crossings through the "freezing point of water", raise the average annual temperature, and also increase the fixed minimum. And, of course, to reduce the distance between settlements.

    I completely agree with you, in Europe -5 is already a natural disaster. And if it’s snow too .. And on good roads, I just imagine the price of an autobahn from Moscow to Vladivostok.
    1. max702
      max702 7 October 2013 13: 00
      +3
      Follow the production technology and everything will be fine, they just steal, and about the price .. are you aware that one km of the andron collider costs less than one km of the Moscow Ring Road? Moreover, 1 km of the collider even in physical dimensions is more than 1 km of the Moscow Ring Road, but I’m not talking about the technological component ..
  23. FunkschNNX
    FunkschNNX 7 October 2013 11: 00
    +8
    That's just a frequently breaking car will deliver your carcass from point A to point B with a lower guarantee. Due to frequent breakdowns, operating costs can easily exceed the benefits of low cost. A lower level of comfort will affect performance. And worse security can cost a living.
    Perhaps people are being advertised, but then why and for commercial exploitation everyone stubbornly chooses foreign cars, and TAZs, KamAZs, Gazeli, etc. take only from poverty or self-indulgence? I myself work in agriculture, so our mechanics and brewers, after they poyuzat American tractors, do not even want to hear about domestic equipment. Yes, and in economics it is much more profitable. We are still buying UAZs because foreign analogues are already considered representative cars and are disproportionate, but we are slowly moving to the Chinese and Koreans.
    1. Avenger711
      Avenger711 7 October 2013 15: 41
      0
      KAMAZ has 35% of the market in Russia, GAZelle has no serious competitors at all. Before its appearance, there were "Toyota", but immediately died out. I see imported heavy trucks mainly in the industrial zone, and the inscriptions on them often speak of a non-Russian registration.
      1. FunkschNNX
        FunkschNNX 7 October 2013 18: 02
        +3
        Do not mention the word KamAZ in the presence of truckers laughing
        The only advantage of domestic cars is the price, but this is only thanks to the customs code. Do not confuse patriotism with idiocy.
        1. Avenger711
          Avenger711 7 October 2013 18: 49
          0
          Truckers make up a very small percentage of drivers.
          1. FunkschNNX
            FunkschNNX 7 October 2013 21: 56
            0
            Does the long-range example not fit? Okay, let's look at the cars: on Avito, a one-year-old Grant costs like a 3-5 year old Camry, and this is on average, but there are also "advanced" Grants for half a lemon, that is. almost like a Camry 1-2 years old. Despite the fact that the Camry class is clearly higher. Which of these two cars would you choose?
            And if it weren’t for customs duties, then foreign cars would be 15-20% cheaper, i.e. slightly more expensive than the TAZ dull city ...
            "You can't blind a bullet from g ..." alas :-(
  24. yanus
    yanus 7 October 2013 11: 02
    +5
    Because of such authors of the article, the USSR collapsed. So diligently invents excuses for all failures, trying to pass them off as virtues ...
  25. ed65b
    ed65b 7 October 2013 11: 03
    +6
    The quality of modern foreign cars has fallen sharply and why is it needed if they change the car behind a bump after a few years of operation and take a new one for themselves, and the old gets to us. By the way, the largest importer of used foreign cars from Japan, oddly enough, is not Russia but Australia. I have an old '92 Toyota to sell, not to throw out sales, sorry, the device serves faithfully without global breakdowns, I change consumables and that's it. Compared to it, there are more problems with the new lex and more expensive. Comrade after buying a tiguan and operating it out of habit fishing and skiing said "Find me the site of the head of Volkswagen, I will write him about the quality." Evacuation of Novokuznetsk-Novosibirsk to an authorized service for replacing wheel bearings cost him such a penny. Sold.
    1. v.lyamkin
      v.lyamkin 7 October 2013 12: 40
      +2
      I have a Toyota 94 release. The main reasons for not breaking up with her are the same as yours.
    2. Corrint_25
      Corrint_25 7 October 2013 15: 13
      +2
      Quote: ed65b
      The quality of modern foreign cars has fallen sharply, but why do we need it if the car is changed after a tubercle after a few years of operation and a new one is taken, and the old stuff comes to us.

      So there a man skated for his pleasure, sold and bought a new machine again, and we buy a used one and look into it and listen to its work. The conclusion suggests itself: why does a person working there get money and can afford a new car, but for us (Ukraine) and Russia the same thing, you work like you don’t drink and neither in front nor behind request ?
      1. Cat
        Cat 7 October 2013 15: 39
        +2
        Quote: Corrint_25
        So there a man skated for his pleasure, sold and bought a new machine again, and we buy a used one and look into it and listen to its work. The conclusion suggests itself: why does a person working there get money and can afford a new car, but for us (Ukraine) and Russia the same thing, you work like you don’t drink and neither in front nor behind?

        Yes, a person cannot "afford" there ... cars, housing, and other relatively expensive things - only a few buy. The rest do not buy, but take on credit. Do you feel the difference? And not only cars - in general most manufactured goods - household appliances, furniture, and so on. Although if mathematically - why pay interest on a loan - if you can put the same money on a deposit in a bank, and after a couple of years to buy the same car and still interest on the deposit will remain? But alas, for some reason no one does it. Really so dumb all, or what other reason can you name?

        As for the decline in quality, everything is simple with it: a high-quality thing made of high-quality materials means unnecessary production costs, and, consequently, a decrease in profit. Moreover, the size of potential losses from the production of quality things can be indirectly estimated by the amounts that are tamped in advertising in general and in propaganda of uncontrolled consumption in particular. Buy, buy now, buy immediately - for yours, last year’s, is already outdated and not quoted! Yes, and also, if you don’t buy it, then after a couple of years you will be able to see for yourself what kind of city ... but they kicked you for big money, under exactly the same loud slogans.

        The only question is: how long will such an ideology be enough? even if the United States, the richest economy in the world, which has fantastic super profits on the sale of painted pieces of paper - and even then, is head over heels in debt? A loan to pay off a previous loan taken to pay interest on the previous one ... sooner or later this pyramid will collapse, and judging by what is happening in the world, even before that, "late" is not long left, not to mention "early" .. ...
        1. Nikolaitch
          Nikolaitch 8 October 2013 23: 02
          0
          The rest do not buy, but take on credit. Do you feel the difference?
          how much is such an ideology?
          A loan to pay off a previous loan taken to pay interest on the one before last ... sooner or later this pyramid will collapse, and judging by what is happening in the world, even before that "late" is not long left, not to mention "early".


          Good thoughts from you, my friend! drinks
    3. aksakal
      aksakal 7 October 2013 17: 42
      +3
      Quote: ed65b
      The quality of modern foreign cars has fallen sharply, but why do we need it if the car is changed after a tubercle after a few years of operation and a new one is taken, and the old stuff comes to us. By the way, the largest importer of second-hand foreign cars from Japan, oddly enough, not Russia but Australia.

      - fact! Compare the quality of that Merce, which is called a "boar" (I don't remember, 140 body, I think?) With the latest models of cars from the Mercedes-Benz S-class - and you will have an objective picture in your head, compare the Camry of those years and the modern Camry - the same situation. The Russians need to seize the moment and play on the opposite! All firms are deteriorating the quality, so that people would have to change cars more often - and Russians should improve their quality and reliability "up to 140 bodywork" - and you can catch the theme!
  26. Cpa
    Cpa 7 October 2013 11: 03
    10
    He worked in 2008 as a diagnostician for domestic VAZ injectors. The system was copied from a "Chevrolet", but some "craftsman" decided to improve it, that is, to make it cheaper in production. Example: the mass air flow sensor for a Chevrolet contains a nichrome filament blown with air, it changes its temperature and with the help of a thermistor readings of the sensor. Quite a reliable system. But the "craftsman" decided that it was too expensive and replaced the nichrome thread with a plastic film glued to the piezoelectric elements, now the sensor read the air pressure on this strip of adhesive tape. the season rides, with the onset of cold weather, from the temperature difference between the air and the engine, this "piece of scotch" is deformed (stretched or compressed) and the sensor starts to lie. The car goes badly and stalls. In November, a couple of buckets of these sensors were going to. I advised everyone to look for Chevrolet the same (800r), but no smut. And someone put the difference in their pocket, or maybe they also received an award.
    1. yanus
      yanus 7 October 2013 11: 58
      +3
      Quote: KPA
      And someone put the difference in his pocket, or maybe he received a bonus.

      Remind such concepts as "rationalization" and "rationalizers" and where they came from.
      In those days, one such "innovator" decided to reduce the cost of production of some rubber gaskets and make them from a cheaper material. And the gaskets were used in MIG-21 engines. Suddenly, aviation kerosene dissolved the "rationalized" gaskets. In short, on takeoff, the engine blades began to fly out beautifully from the nozzle. This is such a "rationalization" ....
      1. Cpa
        Cpa 7 October 2013 13: 50
        +5
        Quote: yanus
        Remind such concepts as "rationalization proposal"

        Yes, I know, not by hearsay winkBasically, if a rationalization proposal leads to a rise in price or additional work, then it will not receive development, not looking at the effectiveness and reliability. Simply arm-assed guys use all this on their knees for themselves.
        Here is an example: a patrol helicopter flies over the group’s headquarters, inside a special fighter monitors the area. At night every 10-15 min turns on the night vision devices for review, makes a circle - turns it off. But, the fighter is enthusiastic, looks, sometimes until the batteries are dead. Then the floor night the spinner flies blindly. Offered to the administration fellow Ratsuhu - to make an NVD power supply from the 24в.circuit. They nodded with an important look, and that’s all, only they began to demand more strictly from the fighters - 15 minutes to fly around and a point. request
        Then the flyers came with a masandra and we snapped food "on our knees" drinks
        In general, a lot of rational proposals in the army lays on the table forever. hi
  27. DAGESTAN333
    DAGESTAN333 7 October 2013 12: 22
    +5
    If we spent the planet’s resources on our own, albeit comfortable, life, this still didn’t go where, but we spend them on showing off and garbage, and this is extremely mean in relation to future generations.
    - take off my hat to the author! For a long time I did not feel such moral satisfaction as from this article.
    The reasons for the fact that in the USSR, cars (and everything like that) were constructed with minimal amenities and costs, I think two:
    1 - Asceticism, which is inherent in the Russian people, which professed in the ideological framework and in the USSR. ((Incidentally) Asceticism is a feature in man that God loves.)
    2 - The compulsion of the Russian Civilization to save on everything, honestly earned resources, spending them on combat systems designed to defend against the corrupt pederast-usurious system that has already occupied the Western world.
    1. aksakal
      aksakal 7 October 2013 22: 18
      +3
      Quote: DAGESTANETS333
      feature

      - I agree, but there is one BUT! There was a kink with minimization of comfort. Until now, I recall with horror an episode from my childhood, how during the Soviet era the whole family decided to go on a tourist trip to Bukhara in the summer! On Moskvich! Without any air conditioner! Can you imagine? It's impossible to get hot, you open the window, you think it will be cooler ... But no, the air there is even hotter! And with these "Nivas" - not light off-road vehicles, but combines from Rostovites - what was it like for combine operators with minimal conveniences? What are the minimum amenities there? They weren't even there in this "Niva"! All steel controls, steel seat and glass and steel cockpit. Only the steering wheel was made of some kind of plastic, which differed little from steel. In the sun, all of this was so hot that the combiner after dinner, before getting into his combine, poured water over the booth, and there was already steam! These are not minimal conveniences, it is their complete absence.
      Mlyn, everything is good in moderation, asceticism is also good in moderation, otherwise without a measure it looks like a BDSM. Then become a hero of jokes for a short time, as in the subject.
  28. Misantrop
    Misantrop 7 October 2013 12: 51
    +4
    Quote: DAGESTANETS333
    The reasons for the fact that in the USSR, cars (and everything like that) were constructed with minimal amenities and costs, I think two:
    With the coming to power of Khrushchev (and further), a third reason appeared - oak relatives should be appointed leaders somewhere (they don’t agree to work with their hands). It was still dumb to the defense industry (these are not the current times), they’ve done it. So they were shoved into tax into the commodity sphere ... request
    1. max702
      max702 7 October 2013 18: 03
      +1
      Soglsen, if the defense of hands and brains was less than enough, then the national economy is no longer
  29. avg
    avg 7 October 2013 12: 58
    +3
    Here is the saying of my neighbor, a trucker driver from those years: “The driver is not afraid of either a wolf or a lynx, but he is terribly afraid of“ Colchis ”from Kutaisi” As a neighbor said: “Of them, it happened that the driver fell out with the wheel.”
    The famous Georgian quality is still! laughing
  30. Wedmak
    Wedmak 7 October 2013 13: 10
    +3
    As I remember from Soviet technology, the years of life:
    TV set, black and white "Horizon" - 14 years old.
    Color TV - worked for 9 years, died the death of the brave when moving, flooded with water.
    Refrigerator, I don’t remember the name - 24 of the year !!!! The engine died, they no longer began to change.
    Programmable calculator MK61 - it still works, more than 15 years already!
    Here are such ...
    Now I go to the brand new Kalina. I don’t know why they scold her. For the money that they ask for her, a beautiful car. Also with air conditioning. As the familiar owners of the same cars said, with due attention (well, what equipment doesn’t need care?), The car runs for a very long time and very well. Spare parts prices are low, repairs are cheap. So if you REALLY just need to move your carcass from point A to point B, then Russian cars are just that. And there is money - buy a BMW, Chevrolet Camaro, Bugatti, no one forbids.
    1. Avenger711
      Avenger711 7 October 2013 15: 07
      +1
      Because AvtoVAZ took up the mind, respectively, and the cars became quite adequate. The black-and-white tube television lives on for a long time, the semiconductor ones seem to be smaller in any way, although I have Sumsung either in the 96th or the 97th year. As luck would have it, according to my observations, a complicated thing like electronics either breaks right away, well, there were some weaknesses, even if the tests passed, or it worked for a very long time.
    2. Drosselmeyer
      Drosselmeyer 7 October 2013 15: 50
      +2
      Sorry, but with your approach, you need more air conditioning in your car. You can always open the window with a "meat grinder". And let all sorts of BMWs drive with air conditioning.
      1. Wedmak
        Wedmak 7 October 2013 16: 26
        0
        Why is my approach bad? And why suddenly found something extra? Slightly open the window, yeah. We have 36-38 heat in the summer, and there will be in the car for 50. There is no meat grinder, ordinary electric hoists. Maybe you didn’t understand, I’m not saying that the car is minimal or luxurious. Everybody there necessary there is! What do you want in addition - put it, no one will even withdraw the guarantee (provided that it is installed correctly).
        I am not a supporter of minimalism. But I would rather give up 15-16 inch wheels than air conditioning and music.
    3. Misantrop
      Misantrop 7 October 2013 17: 14
      +2
      Quote: Wedmak
      As I remember from Soviet technology, the years of life:
      TV set, black and white "Horizon" - 14 years old.
      Color TV - worked for 9 years, died the death of the brave when moving, flooded with water.
      Refrigerator, I don’t remember the name - 24 of the year !!!! The engine died, they no longer began to change.
      Programmable calculator MK61 - it still works, more than 15 years already!

      Refrigerator ZIL "Moscow" produced in 1964, it is worth as a backup, it's time to change the sealing gum. And "Minsk-15", bought in 1988-89 (I don't remember exactly), gave it to a friend. He has a mini-hotel on the coast.
      Vacuum cleaner "Raketa" in 1965. As a worker on the balcony, collect sawdust. Changed brushes twice.
      "Electron-2" TV set (think for yourself what year). Worker, presented to a friend, tired.
      Semi-automatic washing machine "Eureka-86", purchased in 1989. In service, it is still used.
      Programmable calculators "MK-52" (2pcs) in working order
      Microcomputer "Microsha" with 16 kB of all memory and a block for connecting to a tube TV. Alive, in working order (the previous generation before "Radio-86RK" and "Sinclair. Sinclair, by the way, was presented to a friend, also a worker).
      Universal machine tool "Skillful hands". Purchased in 1975 and is still used regularly. AWESOME thing, I'm not overjoyed.
      Electric drill "Albina" 1985, working, donated to a friend, uses. Etc. etc.
      1. Wedmak
        Wedmak 7 October 2013 17: 56
        +2
        You won)))) drinks
  31. cooper
    cooper 7 October 2013 13: 12
    0
    Quote: abrakadabre
    You just need to fully and completely follow production technology and establish normal quality control.

    By the way, never sold Chinese things in our country are not considered better than domestic. All other things being equal, in any market or store, a similar domestic product is positioned (and completely justified) better and costs more. Occupying an average price and quality niche. Really high-quality Chinese goods can be bought in China itself or in Europe, where they are exported. They’re bringing us ... shit.

    By the way, for some types of goods specific to most people, goods from the remaining stocks from Soviet times are almost like new from Europe. And in operation they justify the money spent one hundred percent.

    For example, drilling steel of medium hardness:
    Chinese drill - crashes or melts on a 5-20 hole, re-sharpening is pointless;
    Russian - lives 5-10 times longer under the same processing mode, does not melt, but dulls or chills rather quickly, lends itself to re-sharpening;
    from Soviet stocks - like German under the brands "Solingen" or analogues, continues to drill even if it already glows from overheating, slowly dulls and sharpens perfectly the second time, and the third, and so on, but a little less tenacious than the western brand.

    I did not meet Solingen drills anywhere, but I would not dare to compare any Soviet drills with any banal Duvolt. The scoop flies.
    1. abrakadabre
      abrakadabre 7 October 2013 15: 24
      +2
      I will not lie about the stigma of a particular company, this is not stated. But Solingen is a city and a district where manufacturers of all metal have been grouped from the Middle Ages (and maybe even from an earlier period). In the Middle Ages - blacksmiths and gunsmiths. Nowadays - all sorts of manufacturers of tools and other related products. The highest quality.
      Marking Solingen saw on a hand tool.
      And Soviet, Russian and Chinese drills were tested themselves. Just wrote the result of that test.
      hi
      1. cooper
        cooper 7 October 2013 17: 30
        0
        I wrote to the fact that there are none, I have never met. Although I often have many knives. But I repeat I worked with Soviet drills in the Soviet Union. And now and then I have to use it. The difference between the scoop and dyuvolt is earth and sky. China no sales sense to discuss.
        I understand all the nostalgia for the scoop. It’s sometimes punching, but objectively, we did crap crap.
    2. Misantrop
      Misantrop 7 October 2013 17: 01
      +1
      Quote: Cooper
      here with the banal Duvolt I would not dare to compare any Soviet drills. The scoop flies.
      Find (take the time) NORMAL Soviet with the marking P18 on the shank. And enough for their grandchildren. And Solingen (depending on the particular company) the quality is very unstable. Although the primary sharpening is often not bad.
      1. Locksmith
        Locksmith 7 October 2013 23: 34
        +2
        Quote: Misantrop
        And Solingen (depending on the particular company) the quality is very unstable.

        Solingen is already about ten years old as the Chinese belong, like the Singer, by the way.
        As for drills, you are absolutely right, the Chinese simply fake almost the entire "repertoire" of the USSR instrumental, and modern instrumental industries shamelessly drive Chinese goods under their own brands, as you come across, bought a stepped drill a couple of years ago, written P6M5K - everything is in Russian, but the packaging issued, Made in China, but the drill, which is characteristic of high quality, I drill it for two years as new.
        1. abrakadabre
          abrakadabre 8 October 2013 10: 46
          0
          The Chinese have a lot of quality goods. It's just that in quality and in China it is already quite expensive, and with shipping and other expenses it will cost as European brands. Therefore, in pursuit of profit, they bring to us the cheapest, of unknown origin, and you yourself know what quality.

          Recently caught a file. When trying to use it, the notch scraped off against the workpiece and the file itself was bent. A piece of non-graded soft iron, which can be flattened with a cold hammer tolerably. I can’t imagine what kind of alloy this file was. Well, it’s necessary to dodge well to make an alloy of such plasticity. Almost like aluminum.
          fool
  32. Coward
    Coward 7 October 2013 13: 23
    0
    Grabin had in his memory that the Main Artillery Directorate of the Red Army (fools or enemies?) Demanded that his divisional cannon withstand 10 000 shots from his divisional gun. Grabin used specially alloyed steel and achieved the required vitality. After the war, with great difficulty, they found a cannon that went through the whole war and survived. She managed to make all 3,5 thousands of shots. And if they put the barrel easier with vitality in 2 thousands of shots, then how could strengthen armor tanks, also in need of doping!
    The Great Patriotic War lasted 1418 days and nights. I wonder where this gun went through the whole war?
    1. abrakadabre
      abrakadabre 7 October 2013 15: 26
      +1
      The gun does not shoot the whole war every day. For some time, she was on the march, another on maintenance, the third on reforming the unit, the fourth - stupid shells ended, and the new ones did not have time to lift up on the position, the fifth - the shell that exploded nearby shocked or killed the crew. And much more.
      1. Coward
        Coward 7 October 2013 16: 19
        0
        B / c norms in accordance with the Order of NPO N 0182 dated 09.05.41/XNUMX/XNUMX:
        a) 37 mm and 45 mm guns - 200 pcs .;
        b) 76 mm field guns - 140 pcs.;
        c) 76-mm and 85-mm anti-aircraft guns - 150 pcs.;
        d) 107-mm and 122-mm guns and howitzers - 80 pcs.;
        e) 152 mm howitzers and howitzers-guns - 60 pcs .;
        f) 203 mm howitzers - 40 pcs.;
        g) 280 mm mortars and 305 mm howitzers - 30 pcs .;
        h) 50 mm mortars - 120 pcs.;
        i) 82 mm mortars - 90 pcs.;
        j) 107 mm and 120 mm mortars - 60 pcs .;
        Even if we accept that on average half of the b / c was shot, it turns out that this gun fought for 50 days, and the rest of the time
        it is on the march, another is on maintenance, the third is on reformation of the unit, the fourth - the shells are stupidly over, and the new ones do not have time to lift the position, the fifth - the shell bursting next to it shocked or killed the crew.
      2. Neighbor
        Neighbor 7 October 2013 16: 47
        +1
        In addition, minimal barrel wear leads not only to maximum firing accuracy, but also to a higher initial velocity of the projectile.
  33. USNik
    USNik 7 October 2013 13: 40
    +1
    I read the entire article and did not find any mention of competition anywhere. Due to the lack of which and for the sake of the plan-mass quality suffered. In the states and Europe, it was ruthless competition that raised the bar for quality, reliability, and attractiveness to a high level. I myself am a driver of a Vaza worker, the price-quality ratio is beyond competition, but small shoals are simply enraged. I don't think that without constant "help" and injections, Avtovaz would have been able to compete on equal terms with the same Japanese-Korean-Europeans ...
    1. Corrint_25
      Corrint_25 7 October 2013 15: 17
      +1
      I remember there was a poster: CITIZENS! FLY BY AEROFLOT AIRPLANES! Could you think there were others? belay
  34. michajlo
    michajlo 7 October 2013 13: 43
    +4
    Good day to all!

    Many thanks to the author of the article. One can and should be proud of our Soviet products.
    Since the so-called NTP imposed on us by advertising is more a “way to nowhere”, most of all the things that make life easier for us, we DO NOT need and are put into a closet or thrown away the first time.

    Yes, my dad had Zaporozhets and then VAZ-2101, there were no Mercedes, but God forbid they traveled along the roads of Transcarpathia and the field and the forest.

    It was possible and necessary to improve them. Well, now all the plants in the post-USSR have a licensed assembly, more than half of the profit flows abroad, and our designers, technologists are NOT NEEDED. Only "screwdriver assembly" and the supply of "SIMPLE components."

    In a word, they struck us and we ourselves allowed to MAKE DEVELOPMENT in our country.

    But the main thing is that Coca-Cola is instead of Lemonade and McDonald's !?

    Oh dear, in addition to the fact that there are things that we need to adopt, copy and do better than in the West, most of OUR that was UNIQUE, reliable, cheap and maintainable. Yes, not all of ours shone like "at the dog I * tsa" after licking.

    We can only learn from the Chinese. They switch from simple copying to increasingly complex things, machines and systems! And we are all over the post-USSR that only "buy-sell" at the sidewalk or in the "Commercial Center" !!!

    And this is all the servility and betrayal of our Guarantors, we will have to sip out more than a decade of blood. Belarus alone has its own, develops and produces, although it is very difficult for it as a small country without the fraternal support of Russia and others.
    Since brotherhood and unity are not in vogue now, everyone would only need to “cut more dough”, that for Gazprom and that for Rusneft and others ...
  35. Breeze59
    Breeze59 7 October 2013 14: 03
    +1
    In the 70s, I heard information that a book of anecdotes about the USSR was published in England, called “Russia is dying laughing.” The USSR really died, but not Russia. However, work in this regard continues. So let's not take their word for it. , anecdotal, of the West about us Slavs. We really laugh at the roads, at the cars, but we haven't died. We live.
  36. intsurfer
    intsurfer 7 October 2013 14: 19
    +2
    Quote: Kyrgyz
    Your assessment of imported SUVs is perplexing, believe me, they go off-road longer and longer and even with comfort

    we type in YouTube "Niva versus Hammer" and enjoy;) Yesterday I was driving along a forest road from the dacha for a Kia sportazh ... Well, on every bump I slowed down to zero, where I was driving 30 km / h with comfort. :)
    1. Drosselmeyer
      Drosselmeyer 7 October 2013 15: 53
      +1
      Well, well ... just get (God forbid) in an accident at speed on the "Niva" and on the "Kia". You will immediately feel the difference. If you survive.
  37. netMolotov
    netMolotov 7 October 2013 14: 20
    +2
    On the meeting filmed by a hidden video camera, one question was on the agenda: “Why did Brezhnev meet the guests, leaders of foreign countries at the airport, at the plane, and Chernenko meets them in the Kremlin?”.
    Mikhail Kheifets in vain encourages the assembled masters of the unprintable word to gather their thoughts and offer their own answers to the question posed. Finally, having lost his temper, he yells heart-rendingly: “So what are we going to load our computers with today ?!”

    So they downloaded it. The answer was: Because Brezhnev’s life support system was powered by batteries and Chernenko’s only from the network.
  38. Avenger711
    Avenger711 7 October 2013 14: 25
    +2
    As far as I know, 3500 rounds is the average shot for the ZIS-3 for the War. And it would hardly have been possible to raise the level of protection of tanks, saving steel on guns, since on the same T-34 the frontal armor basically did not increase due to the mechanical drive hatch in the frontal sheet.
    The ability to perform basic car repairs is, of course, good, but how to ensure 100% literacy of the population in this matter, and really get hurt if you figure out how much the breakdown and related problems will cost. Just sometimes a 10% increase in labor costs gives a 100% increase in efficiency. As a programmer, I am always furious when I encounter stupid behavior of programs, which would not be difficult to fix with an elementary culture.

    They just took someone they needed in previous years for eggs, and there was transport for export.
  39. Trapperxnumx
    Trapperxnumx 7 October 2013 15: 55
    +6
    Silence, that is, if I bought Logan, and for the third year I ride it only changing wheels (winter-summer) and pouring gas into the tank, and instead of hanging around in the garage with men and plumping (which is usually done in garages, they play chess), spend time with my family, am I a dumb blonde?
  40. The comment was deleted.
  41. yastr
    yastr 7 October 2013 16: 05
    +1
    Was in Cuba in May. Soviet cars are the most expensive there. One Cuban said: "I bought it 10 years ago for $ 3, now it costs $ 15." And all why? She is not demolishing. Any more or less competent mechanic can disassemble and assemble it, there are enough spare parts. And of course there is no snow, salt, etc. etc., with proper care - an almost immortal thing. As an employee of the plant, he said the same about Belarusian tractors, which have been in service for 20-30 years - they break down, but they are repaired and work. And the new tractors they bought behave in the same way, only with repairs it is much more difficult.
    1. cooper
      cooper 7 October 2013 17: 36
      +1
      A 10-year-old VAZ in Cuba for a tag :)))))))))))))))))))))) You obviously didn’t in Cuba :)) There simply doesn’t exist such prices in the cheapest countries :))
  42. kirpich
    kirpich 7 October 2013 16: 17
    +2
    Ah, I like this song about the quality of the Soviet and Russian automobile industry.
  43. iConst
    iConst 7 October 2013 16: 20
    +1
    I will not comment on the article - but about the packaging, which is more expensive than the content - as if the world had gone crazy.
    It will still respond to everyone ...

    And also advertising - we pay for the fact that our eyes and ears are callous.

    In a dollar bottle of sosa sola (specially warped) 7 cents is worth the chemistry contained in it. The rest: bottle, advertising, delivery, trade margin ... Think ...
    1. Avenger711
      Avenger711 7 October 2013 16: 54
      0
      Are tons of sugar also 7 cents?
  44. vlad.svargin
    vlad.svargin 7 October 2013 16: 25
    +1
    “Yes, it was precisely anti-Soviet jokes, where the Kremlin’s inhabitants of heaven were often the main figures, foreign apologists of the bourgeois way of life and thinking assigned the role of shock troops, who were charged with the task, if not to destroy the Soviet power, then to undermine its foundation, stain the facade, and there , you look, plaster will fall down first, and then the walls ...

    They especially tried to compose anecdotes about our heroes of the Civil and Patriotic War in order to "undermine" the ideology of the victorious people. Already in the last decade of Soviet power, there were so many jokes about Chapaev, it is clear where they were composed and, by the way, by the from the "ancestral home of God's chosen").
    They even now "push" their ideology through moronic advertising, lowering us below the "plinth", calling all this not even the Russian word "marketing" - how to "foist" unnecessary goods, just drive a lot of money.
  45. me
    me 7 October 2013 16: 29
    +2
    Is this a site for "military review"? Maybe I was wrong?
  46. coserg 2012
    coserg 2012 7 October 2013 16: 33
    +1
    I don’t know how anyone, for me, is better than Germans do not have cars. Although these models began to degrade during our assembly. At the expense of SUVs, I’ll say that there is no better UAZ. I somehow managed to make it personally.
  47. DOMINO
    DOMINO 7 October 2013 16: 53
    +4
    As for the reliability of any system, it has long been known in physics and mechanics that it is the higher, the fewer "structural units" in it, i.e. the simpler, the more reliable. Is the Western car industry following this principle? I remember the enthusiastic and idiotic admiration of my acquaintances I drove when I looked under the hood of a foreign car: "... there are so many messed up things! I don’t even understand half of it — what is it! Not like ours!" etc. The fact that this is precisely why they become slaves of the "branded" car service, cursing the local valuers, apparently does not bother them at all ...
    Ultimately, everything rests on moral categories. Hundreds of millions will drive a car, sit on blogs and discuss technical specifications, until someone lifts up and creates a new means of transportation, on different principles, say hovering above the ground, like in a fantasy. films, while environmentally friendly and inexpensive, devoid of all these problems with cross-country ability, suspension, speed, etc. Isn't that progress? Or is progress an endless increase in horsepower, unnecessary (as in VEYRON) for someone to amuse their ego by collecting admiringly envious glances on the road? Each time, more or less thinking people incriminate others and themselves in the stamping of their brains, and each time they still come across this.
    A different moral approach to science is the key to true progress, which allows you to implement ambitious projects as efficiently and effectively as possible technically (and not only technically), to use well-known and new physical principles that are closed from the standard vicious mind. History knows examples of such breakthroughs. Well, dirty and ineffective "technologies" of a century ago are prepared for the cattle-mass, where, in order to maintain power and service the pockets of bankers, it is necessary to maintain oil to be at the helm - at the same time the whole dead-end "progress", blocking any alternative developments. All this is covered up by the current culture - Hollywood tinsel, advertising, etc. - to maintain the pink myth for consumers about the coolness of "having a cool car". After all, those born to ride cannot fly. Or maybe?
  48. gyl
    gyl 7 October 2013 17: 30
    -5
    So, Yurets Mukhin always keeps his nose in the wind - we are waiting for his next ranting about our overconsumption of grub (meat is harmful), the volume of the house - everything is in a communal apartment, it’s more comfortable, sincere and somehow, I’m not afraid to say it, advise. Naturally, saving measures do not apply to superiors - and now Vovan and Dimon can nostalgically go for VICTORY, Kalina or something else there, and competently declare that these instances are in no way at all no different from Merce Pullman or Gelenvagen but the situation obliges you to stand still! , you understand, freely, disperse!
    1. aksakal
      aksakal 7 October 2013 19: 16
      0
      Quote: gyl
      Naturally, saving measures do not apply to superiors - and now Vovan and Dimon can nostalgically go for VICTORY, Kalina or something else there, and competently declare that these copies are in no way, no different, from Merce Pullman or Gelenvagen but the situation obliges you to stand still! , you understand, freely, disperse!
      - well, everyone understands that Mukhin's efforts will be absolutely useless until the people are offered a different, completely different system of values. It was also Soviet propaganda that tried to introduce norms of "reasonable consumption", appealing to the "communist" consciousness of citizens. At the same time, there were attempts to create a different system of values ​​based on "receiving spiritual joy - on the basis of a feeling of satisfaction from the process of building communism," something somehow did not go at all.
  49. bilgesez
    bilgesez 7 October 2013 17: 32
    +2
    "Putin appointed him a member of the Public Chamber to represent the people of Russia." Here's a national leader. Where are the followers of Putin. Protect your Fuhrer
  50. Was mammoth
    Was mammoth 7 October 2013 17: 53
    +2
    High in the mountains not so long ago, when the "Cossacks" were still running, but foreign cars had already appeared, one could find only two brands of cars: UAZ and ZAZ. "Cossacks" crawled where even "Niva" never dreamed of, especially where all the "cruisers" were. I have never seen a more durable apparatus.
    It seems strange to me that for a car it’s enough to get from point A to point B. On a donkey you will pass where any piece of iron will stand. However, I want both convenience and reliability. And good roads.
    PS Today on the radio I heard that a paid section appeared on the Don highway.