Military Review

And again about "Stechkin"

61
Our author used the APS pistol for a long time in a combat situation, and decided, based on his own experience, to dispel some myths that exist about this weapons.




SOME INTEGRITY

Perhaps there is no other weapon that is as controversial as the Stechkin APS automatic pistol. He still causes numerous disputes and discussions about his combat capabilities and characteristics, and a lot of completely opposite and different opinions have developed regarding him, many of which, unfortunately, are based not on personal experience, but on simple reasoning. At the same time, it is very rare to meet a person who had to use this weapon in battle and who has the ability to draw conclusions about APS based on his own experience.

I turned to this topic, accidentally finding in the magazines "Weapon" of different years very contradictory opinions about this gun. So, in the second issue of 1999, an article was published titled “Weapon is not for us?”. Its author, a cadre officer, reserve colonel Leonid Migunov, draws conclusions based on personal experience of using the APS, but, as I understand it, not on its combat use, but on experience gained in the course of daily business activities. He expresses his opinion, which is that the Stechkin pistol is not effective enough, moreover, it is cumbersome and inconvenient to use.

Pistols APS with standard holsters-butts and pouches


APS pistols in a converted thigh holster with a rubber handle grip and twisted pistol strap


Somewhat later, in the third issue of the magazine “Arms” for 2000, a letter was printed, the author of which was Peter Dobriden from Spassk-Dalniy. This author has a completely different opinion on the MPS pistol and gives his arguments.

In addition, there are many conversations on these topics on the Internet on various weapon sites and forums on these topics, but there are not many intelligible and reasoned opinions either.

I had to use an APS pistol in a combat situation for quite a long time. Therefore, I dare to believe that I can judge this weapon based on my own experience and personal impressions. Now I will try to share them, while trying to avoid using the data and characteristics of these weapons, which can be easily found in large numbers in various sources. At the same time, I perfectly understand that my conclusions and opinions cannot be considered indisputable either.

In the book of A.I. Blagovestov “What they shoot at the CIS” under the general editorship of A.E. Taras, the section on APS says: “... The units with the detachable metal butt and silent flameless shooting device were successfully used in Afghanistan special forces. In addition, the APS is well established as a personal weapon of driver mechanics tanks, Armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles, helicopter crews. ” Having familiarized with such information, some questions immediately arise. And why did he well established himself as a personal weapon of precisely driver mechanics, and not, for example, tank commanders or loaders? And with what qualities did he especially suit them, how and where did they use it?

In his letter to the magazine “Arms”, Peter Dobriden also talks about something similar: “... APS, several decades after being removed from service, became the favorite weapon of pilots and special forces who fought in Afghanistan and Chechnya. Special forces soldiers noted its high efficiency in the conduct of hostilities in the city and use as a "last throw" weapon, which was explained by high maneuverability and firepower. ... As for the special forces, in combat, they widely used the silent version of Stechkin APB ".

Let's talk first about the crews of combat vehicles. After graduating from a tank school and having served in tank forces for more than one year, having been in Afghanistan in the mid-eighties as commander of a tank company, I have never and never met a tanker armed with an APS pistol, especially a driver. And at motorized riflemen this weapon did not occur even more. Moreover, the staff of the tank divisions did not officially register any Stechkin pistols as personal weapons for officers or members of tank crews. There were PMs, there were automatic machines AKS-74 or AKSU, but not APS, then where could they get there, if according to the staffing table they were not listed?

APS different years of release


Helicopters also often had to communicate during the second Chechen war, while in Khankala. I didn’t pay special attention to their personal weapons, but I can say for sure that they were not armed with “Stechkin” weapons. Even if we assume that this gun was in service with the crews of combat vehicles and helicopters, how could he have worked well out there, as many authors claim? Crews of combat vehicles and helicopters on the battlefield perform tasks using completely different weapons, so they do not have the opportunity to evaluate the merits or weaknesses of the APS. Outside of combat vehicles, they do not fight, and Stechkin’s pistol is not used, even if they have it with them.

In this regard, it is not clear why the authors of the above book are misleading their readers in talking about facts that did not take place in reality. If somewhere the crews of combat vehicles and helicopters were armed with a Stechkin pistol, then this was not the rule, but rather the exception. And how then they could appreciate his merits is also unclear.

SPECIAL FORCE AND APB

There are references to the special forces, who allegedly often and successfully used a Stechkin pistol and appreciated it, especially in the version of APB. At the same time, it seems that the authors of these arguments do not clearly understand who the special forces are, what tasks and what weapons they carry out.

We had to perform combat missions, together with the army special forces, as well as with the special forces of the GRU and the FSB. I want to note that this is, in fact, selective, well-trained, trained and equipped infantry, performing the most complex and demanding tasks. In the army special forces units, strange as it may seem to many, the personnel mainly consisted of well-trained conscripts. Of course, there was a considerable number of contractors there. The main tasks for the special forces in Chechnya were the organization and conduct of ambush actions, raids on mountain-wooded areas in order to detect and destroy militant gangs, their camps and bases. But the same tasks, and no less successfully, were performed by both reconnaissance and ordinary motorized rifle subunits. For this they needed a powerful enough weapon, at least an automatic. Neither automatic pistols, nor submachine guns, due to their insufficient firepower, were not suitable for these purposes.

It was quite true that in Afghanistan, JSA was used by special forces to perform a number of tasks. But its use was sporadic, due to the specifics of the weapon itself. It should be noted that the use of another pistol, namely: the Makarov-Deryagin PB design under these conditions was no less successful, and it was used no less frequently than APB. And considering its much smaller dimensions, its use was much preferable than APB.

I am familiar with both samples of this weapon, and I can say that for performing specific tasks, the Stechkin’s APB pistol has no particular advantages over Makarov’s PB. "Stechkin" with a connected silencer has absolutely exorbitant size, inconvenient in carrying and placing on equipment.

"Makarov" with a silencer is also not small, but, nevertheless, much smaller APB.

To reduce the initial speed of the bullet to 290 m / s in the barrel of the ASC there are gas vents, which the usual Army APS does not have. Thereby, the firepower of this pistol is significantly reduced, which has become quite comparable with the power of the PB pistol, whose initial bullet speed is also 290 m / s. For example, APB muzzle energy is 250 J, versus 246 J in PB. Therefore, the PB in its capabilities is not much inferior to the APB, while having much smaller dimensions.

Figuratively speaking, if someone thinks that with any of these pistols one can quietly get into the rear of the enemy and quietly shoot the sentry there near the enemy headquarters, then this is a pernicious delusion. Both APB and PB are absolutely noiseless, and, as it seemed to me, the sound of the shot is better off at the PB. In addition, both pistols have a rather loud clack of the bolt during rollback and roll forward when firing. Considering these circumstances, it is not possible to consider the possibility of firing bursts of the dignity of the JSA, since its silencer successfully copes only with a single shot, and the sound of the queue is jammed poorly. Moreover, the massive shutter of the APB, moving during the automatic fire mode, produces a roar, similar to the sound of a nearby train. For these reasons, firing in bursts with an installed silencer is useless.

There is no doubt that APB and PB pistols are a very worthy weapon, but if we say that APB has become the favorite weapon of special forces and reconnaissance aircraft, then there is another quite simple explanation for this. Enough frequent and successful use of both of these pistols contributed to one very important fact. And this is not at all some of their exceptional characteristics and qualities, but the ability to use a common and affordable ammunition — cartridge PM. That is what became decisive when choosing a weapon to perform special tasks. All the rest is a silent weapon, the choice of which is not so small at the moment, as well as their ammunition in the form of SP-3 and SP-4 cartridges - rather exotic, rarely found among the troops. Everyone knows that it is there, but many of his entire service, including me, have never seen him.

Makarov's silent pistol and Deryagin PB


PERSONAL IMPRESSIONS

In order to properly use a weapon, you need to correctly evaluate its characteristics and combat capabilities. Then it will become clear, for what fire tasks it is suitable, and for which it is not, and under what conditions its use will be the most expedient. Unfortunately, I did not immediately take into account this simple truth, and the possibilities of the Stechkin pistol were initially greatly overestimated. Understanding these misconceptions came soon enough.

APS immediately made a very good impression on me. He had an attractive appearance, was beautiful and elegant, if this epithet is applicable to weapons. I liked the simplicity and originality of its design, it was easily understood for maintenance and cleaning, was well balanced. With the added plastic holster, he turned into something like a submachine gun, which, in essence, is.

I noticed and flaws, however, seemed not so significant. So the wide and thick handle when shooting from the hand does not allow you to conveniently hold the weapon. This disadvantage is due to the design, since there is a two-row magazine for twenty rounds in the handle, as well as details of the retarder, the combat spring and the combat spring pusher.

Holding the gun in your right hand, it is not possible to move the fuse to different positions and cocking the trigger with the thumb of the same hand, as can be done with Makarov. To do this, you must resort to using the other hand, while removing the weapon from the line of fire.

When the trigger is cocked, the trigger angle also seemed to be not very comfortable, located too close to the handle, this caused the feeling that a finger stroke might not be enough to make a shot. Therefore, the trigger had to press the second phalanx of the finger, not the first. Perhaps it’s all a matter of habit.

During almost daily use, Stechkin showed amazing reliability, reliability and unpretentiousness, approximately at the level of Makarov. For all the time there was not a single delay due to the fault of a weapon or ammunition, and this is in view of the fact that it was not always possible for its quality service and cleaning.

Strangely enough, but when shooting from the hand at 20-25 m, it turned out that in these conditions the APS pistol has no distinct advantages in relation to the PM pistol. The results of the shooting were approximately comparable. Shooting from the hands of the MTA is much more difficult than from the PM, because here its significant dimensions and weight play an important role. These parameters adversely affect the results of shooting due to the rapid fatigability of the hand, and therefore the accuracy of each subsequent shot is reduced. It is hardly advisable to fire long in such a way, especially at a considerable distance. With such a weight, shooting with two hands or using a holster-butt is naturally preferable.

With an increase in the distance to the targets, the effectiveness of the fire and the accuracy of the hits decreased sharply. Therefore, I believe that the firing range stated in the technical specifications for the MPS without the 50 butt butt, and with the 200 butt butt, is clearly overestimated, at least twice.

When shooting with a closed butt, both in single shots and bursts, the pistol's shutter moving in close proximity to the shooter causes not very pleasant sensations.

In a combat situation, several attempts were made to use the APS as an independent weapon. Here she misled the possibility of automatic fire from him, and the butt that was fastened at the same time seemed to endow it with the capabilities of a submachine gun. The illusion was created that Stechkin is a versatile weapon, compact, mobile, convenient to use, and having the ability to conduct continuous fire. But, as you know, there are no universal weapons, and Stechkin, of course, was not the same either.

Modern Russian special silent pistol PSS for special cartridge SP-4


It soon became clear that in modern combat there are practically no tasks that this gun is capable of performing. Fire contact occurs, as a rule, at distances that are not available for the effective use of the MTA. His bullet has a low penetrability, for which even a lightweight shelter becomes an insurmountable barrier and limits the already low combat capabilities.

In a combat situation, it turned out another not very pleasant quality of the Stechkin. It has a high unmasking property. Since his concealed carrying is difficult because of his considerable size, he had to wear it on a belt in a regular holster in front of everyone, including the enemy, who perfectly understands that an ordinary infantryman cannot be armed with such a weapon. Therefore, the owner of the MTA becomes the first candidate for destruction. And it had to be taken into account.

It quickly realized that when everyone around was armed with machine guns and machine guns, when the enemy also fired automatic and machine-gun fire, the owner of the MTA feels completely helpless and useless. In order to be able to perform combat missions in modern combat, a much more powerful weapon must be used than even the most remarkable automatic pistol.

Experience has shown that the most suitable weapons in a combat situation are a set of automatic weapons and a pistol. In this case, with the help of an automaton in combat, the main fire tasks are carried out, and the pistol is used as an additional and reserve fire weapon. Very often there were situations when the use of a pistol was preferable to a machine gun. For example, when inspecting premises, basements, dugouts. In addition, an additional weapon such as a pistol was used when the main weapon was discharged or defective. Therefore, the pistol, as a backup weapon, has certain requirements: it must be compact, reliable, reliable, safe to use, well placed among equipment and gear, easy to remove and always be ready to fire. All these requirements for such weapons, as well as possible, are satisfied by such an excellent gun as the PM.

For a certain but brief time, I attempted to use the MTA as a backup fire weapon, but they were unsuccessful. It turned out that this gun is not suitable as such a weapon, since it does not satisfy all the requirements for such a weapon. In addition, he has excessive, not pistol firepower, although this, of course, cannot be attributed to the shortcomings. As an additional weapon, a compact and reliable PM is much more preferable. In connection with this, it became obvious that the Stechkin pistol was practically useless in ordinary combat.

SIMPLE CONCLUSIONS

Here are some more quotes from the letter of Peter Dobrideni: “... From my own experience I know that when shooting from one hand to the 70 distance, all bullets fall in a circle with a diameter of 30 cm ... for a submachine gun, the main thing is the density of fire, for a pistol the very possibility of automatic fire, and even with one hand, is already excellent ... As the experience of Afghanistan and Chechnya shows, there is no replacement and no alternative to it, because not one pistol of the world fits into the parameters of the APS, that is, twenty rounds, the target range is 200 m (and this is real) the weight of the 1220 g with the loaded magazine automatic fire with one hand. " The author of another letter, Leonid Migunov, on the contrary, believes that the APS shows poor results even when fired at 25 m due to the high windage and weight of the pistol, and automatic fire from this pistol is absolutely not effective.

But is it worth arguing about this, because it’s not even a matter of which of these authors is right and who isn’t? The shooters also have a different level of training, which is why they show different shooting results: some are the best, others are the worst. But in the given reasonings one important fact is not taken into account, that in the enemy the battle is a growth or chest target that is not stationary at a certain distance. In battle, the other rules. And very often it happens that even an insufficiently well-trained shooter, but possessing endurance, composure and combat experience, performs a firing task much more successfully than one who has the best rifle training, but has lost his composure and lost his head in a difficult situation.

Peter Dobrideni repeatedly points to the possibility of automatic fire from a hand to create a high density of fire. But this cannot be considered the task of a pistol. Having a rate of fire of 700-750 per minute, the APS will empty the magazine in a second and a half, leaving the arrow in the face of the enemy unarmed. Shooting bursts using a holster-butt does not give a high accuracy of shooting, and shooting bursts from the hand, especially not

And again about "Stechkin"
Modern submachine gun "Chestnut"


will give high results. The possibility of automatic fire for a pistol is not so important, it is judged on completely different qualities. It is for this reason that automatic pistols capable of firing in bursts are not widespread either in the world or in our country.

The store capacity of twenty rounds cannot be considered a big advantage of Stechkin either. Although, theoretically, this is not bad. But practice says something else. When it came to the use of pistols, the most important factor here is the reliability of the weapon, the time of the first shot and the accuracy of its hit. If the fire task with the use of a pistol failed to be solved by the first shot, or at least the first three, since the enemy gave you the opportunity to make them, then neither the eighth, nor the tenth, nor, the more, the twentieth cartridge remaining in the store will save you In life, of course, all sorts of situations happen, there are no rules, no exceptions, but usually it looks that way.

Modern submachine gun "Cypress"


There is no doubt that the APS pistol is a masterpiece of design thought in its design, and its creator Igor Yakovlevich Stechkin is undoubtedly an exceptionally talented person. Within the framework of what was entrusted to him, he created an unsurpassed sample of weapons. The low power of the ammunition used in this gun determined the simplicity and reliability of the design, but at the same time, it significantly limited its fire capabilities.

Modern submachine gun "Cedar"


In fact, an APS pistol is not a pistol, but a submachine gun that is comparable in its characteristics to other, more modern, PPs designed for the 9-18 mm PM pistol cartridge, such as Kedr, Klin, Cypress "and some others. In some ways he surpasses them, but in some way inferior. But all these weapons have very limited capabilities, and therefore have not received wide recognition and distribution among the troops. We in the army units it was not in service and was not used at all. In the special forces, GRU and FSB divisions with which we had to jointly carry out combat missions, if there were similar samples, then only in single copies. The fighters of these units were armed with much more powerful weapons. For example, I only saw the APB pistol once with the chief of intelligence of the 503 th motorized rifle regiment 19 MSD, as an additional weapon. No enthusiasm for the use of this gun, he did not express. The APS pistol was in service with almost every commandant of the city or region of Chechnya, General Vladimir Bulgakov, whom I had met, was also armed with Stechkin. Submachine guns chambered for PM we had some Interior Ministry officers, such as investigators, criminologists, and the like. I do not remember the case when some of them had to use this weapon in battle. These categories of servicemen and militiamen with their personal weapons did not directly take part in the hostilities.

All modern submachine guns, including the APS, cannot be considered a full-fledged weapon on the battlefield, their fire capabilities are very limited. It is difficult to even say in what situations such a weapon can be used. It is suitable, rather, for the employees of the Ministry of Internal Affairs to carry out the tasks of apprehending criminals peculiar to this department. And in modern combat its use is ineffective. In this regard, the decommissioning of such a good, at first glance, a pistol, like the APS, was quite natural and justified.
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  1. SHILO
    SHILO 7 October 2013 09: 08 New
    +3
    From a series of weapons of Russia.
  2. Rex
    Rex 7 October 2013 09: 32 New
    +6
    I liked the article, because in general I agree with the author.
    APS is a good pistol, but as a main (and even an additional) weapon, few people need it. Its original concept - arming "non-combat barrels", in fact, did not justify itself.
    A friend of mine in Chechnya received the APS (already 1957) as the third barrel. Normally, he did not rely on him (there was an AK-74 and PM) and was issued by an acquaintance + a liter as a thank you. Because friend was just "non-combat", then APS used only for shooting at banks.
    APS has 3 pluses in comparison with PM, but in 99% of situations they will not be in demand.
  3. report4
    report4 7 October 2013 09: 45 New
    +2
    APS has a large weight (and dimensions), which on the one hand is good and helps when shooting - reducing recoil and making shooting more stable, but on the other it reduces its controllability and makes it less comfortable to wear.
  4. hohryakov066
    hohryakov066 7 October 2013 09: 45 New
    15
    In the title photo, not APS, but PM! There is no characteristic cutout for the shutter lag and a fuse flag on the right side.
    1. Firstvanguard
      Firstvanguard 7 October 2013 15: 00 New
      +3
      Plus for attentiveness good
    2. papik09
      papik09 8 October 2013 13: 19 New
      +1
      100% - PM, I immediately noticed this drinks
  5. kotvov
    kotvov 7 October 2013 10: 16 New
    0
    The article is interesting, and as I understand it, APS is more of a psychological weapon than a universal one (which, apparently, it was designed)
    1. Rex
      Rex 7 October 2013 10: 33 New
      0
      Quote: kotvov
      APS is rather a psychological weapon,)


      Any weapon is a little "psychological" wink
      The weapon gives the owner two illusions - a sense of security and a sense of superiority.
    2. StolzSS
      StolzSS 7 October 2013 21: 35 New
      0
      Well, life has shown that it is more suitable for officers of the commandant’s office than for anyone else if we are talking about the conflict zone. And I completely agree with the author and I can only add that I would like to have such a gun for a personal collection of weapons exclusively as a tribute to the designer and a memory of a bygone era!
  6. leonardo_1971
    leonardo_1971 7 October 2013 10: 29 New
    24
    I’m a SOBR and APS sniper always with me as an additional weapon to the rifle. It’s ridiculous to read about the same accuracy of PM and APS. My Stechkin, who was shot for himself, easily fell into a box of 9 mm rounds at 25 meters. And I shot at a 4 target from 10 meters in a continuous burst 10 rounds from the practical shooting rack and bullets went into the STP 20 cm. With the APS, I easily shot at the master of sports. And with the PM I could not achieve this. A good reliable, accurate, multi-shot and simply beautiful gun!
    1. air wolf
      air wolf 7 October 2013 15: 03 New
      +2
      Listen, a sniper will not when he does not say that he is a sniper, but with PMa from 25 meters I knocked out 45 eyes. APS only kept hands and not enthusiastic about him. PM is ideal as a second weapon.
      1. leonardo_1971
        leonardo_1971 7 October 2013 15: 53 New
        +3
        why can’t I say that I am a sniper. not every good shooter is a sniper and every sniper is a good shooter. PM is a good gun. reliable. so that he shoots himself when they press. I didn’t shoot from the APS and you criticize. I served my job.
        1. PSih2097
          PSih2097 8 October 2013 00: 51 New
          0
          Quote: leonardo_1971
          not every good shooter is a sniper but every sniper is a good shooter.

          I like American gradation more ... Marksman (Marksman - a soldier armed with precision weapons, acting in the interests of a particular unit), Sharpshooter (Sharpshooter - a soldier equipped with precision weapons, operating within a unit) and a sniper (a self-operating unit armed with precision weapons )
          From the point of view of the development of the US Armed Forces, shooters with high-precision rifles are officially snipers. Those who wear the Sniper patch on their shoulders (that is, have passed the 3rd stage of training) refer to "high-precision" ones from above and call them only in the official terms Marksman (1st stage) and Sharpshooter (2nd stage). In fairness, it should be said that American snipers do not often divide the lower ones into their levels, and therefore only the pejorative-sounding term "Marksman" is often used.
        2. air wolf
          air wolf 28 October 2013 14: 11 New
          +1
          it’s not customary to talk about it, I also served mine, I was fond of shooting from my youth, my coach trained snipers in Afghanistan, and I shoot no worse than him.
      2. Oden280
        Oden280 7 October 2013 17: 32 New
        -1
        PM is ideal only for a crossbow. Do not miss. APS is very good as a second weapon, especially if you have to work indoors.
        1. PSih2097
          PSih2097 8 October 2013 00: 41 New
          +2
          Quote: Oden280
          PM is ideal only for a crossbow. Do not miss.

          some manage to get a specific concussion instead of suicide ...
          1. Oden280
            Oden280 8 October 2013 09: 04 New
            +2
            Probably only spinal, as the head is a solid bone. wink
            1. papik09
              papik09 8 October 2013 13: 30 New
              +2
              One former cop (he was, like, the head of the criminal investigation department), after an unsuccessful attempt on his life (they shot him in the head - remained alive), said: "Probably the killer's hand trembled - hit in the head, but NONE OF LIFE IMPORTANT ORGAN WAS GOING TO INSERT" wassat
              Quote: Oden280
              Probably only spinal, as the head is a solid bone. wink
      3. PSih2097
        PSih2097 8 October 2013 00: 45 New
        +1
        Quote: air wolf
        PM is ideal as a second weapon.

        What are you? fool if Makarka is your ideal weapon as a secondary, then I feel sorry for you ...
        Quote: air wolf
        and from PMa from 25 meters I knocked out 45 eyes.

        is it at a shooting range or at a shooting range, but in battle?
        Quote: air wolf
        Listen, a sniper will not when he does not say that he is a sniper,

        well, if he’s not a secret, then he can identify himself ...
    2. papik09
      papik09 8 October 2013 13: 25 New
      +3
      Sir, from my STAFF PM (3 was knocked out on the rear sight) at a distance of 50 meters, when firing at a rifle (small-caliber) target, I "put" all EIGHT bullets on the target - 4 in the black field and 4 in the white (milk). Please take into account the DIAMETER of the target. Magazine firing time - 12 seconds. Well, at a distance of 25 meters when shooting at the chest (standard 75x75) pistol target, less than 29 out of 30 did not work. Conclusion - you need to love a weapon (personal). Only then will it show itself in all its might. Yes, and more, you need to wash your hands wassatto hit the target.
  7. alex-cn
    alex-cn 7 October 2013 11: 18 New
    +5
    Of course - APS is a legend. But I agree with the author that with the advent of modern small-sized PPs, his time simply passed. It’s a pity that judging by the reviews, their quality is often lower than the baseboard, during the development of APS they could send the manufacturer there- it would be so now.
  8. understudy
    understudy 7 October 2013 11: 28 New
    +4
    Everything would be fine if the author did not confine himself to vague hints at his special skill when "communicating" with the APS and personal experience, next to which "the army special forces, as well as the special forces of the GRU and the FSB ... this, in fact, is perfect, well prepared, trained and equipped infantry... "Yeah, how it looks like -" ... I am the only one in a white dress coat "! What amused me especially was the" high unmasking properties "of the pistol. Well, okay, let's hide it.
    APS is a magnificent machine of its time and comparing its combat capabilities with those models that are now available is at least incorrect.
    I quote ... "APS was produced in the USSR from 1952 to 1958, after which it was discontinued. We probably will not know the real reason for the discontinuation of this unique weapon. It was officially announced that it was too large and heavy. however, the inconvenience in use has never been a compelling argument for the removal of any sample of weapons or military equipment from production lines. This decision must be considered erroneous, because at that time only "stechkin" was suitable for the role of "individual defense weapon" - that is the name in the West, a class of small arms designed to equip servicemen who do not take a direct part in hostilities (pilots, crew members of armored vehicles, signalmen, etc.) When, during the war in Afghanistan, cases of our aircraft being hit by dushman "stingers" became more frequent, pilots by hook or by crook they tried to get an APS: then, in the event of a catapult over enemy territory, the chances of survival are significant grew up. But, unfortunately, too little has been done in several years of production of the Stechkins ...
    However, the history of the pistol did not end there. In the late 1960s. On the basis of the APS, the designer A.S. Neugodov developed an automatic pistol for silent shooting, which was named APB. This weapon entered service in 1972 under the index 6P13 ... "
  9. Sirozha
    Sirozha 7 October 2013 12: 22 New
    0
    Article plus, the author expressed his personal opinion!
    But on the account of the fact that not a single pistol firing in bursts has gained wide circulation in the world, you got excited! Recall, for example, Glock 17! ..
    1. Rex
      Rex 7 October 2013 12: 58 New
      +3
      Quote: Sirozha

      But on the account of the fact that not a single pistol firing in bursts has gained wide circulation in the world, you got excited! Recall, for example, Glock 17! ..


      Glock-17 does not fire bursts.
      They have (at least one) modification with this "option", but it is unlikely that they are very popular, otherwise there would be a majority of such models.
      You can take Beret 92R - in the directories listed for a long time, but in the movies I saw 1-2 times. Models with 20 typed for sure ...
      1. vkrav
        vkrav 7 October 2013 14: 43 New
        +1
        Quote: Rex
        Can Beret recall 92R

        Maybe Beretta93r?
      2. mirag2
        mirag2 8 October 2013 06: 10 New
        0
        Glock 18 fires bursts.
    2. vkrav
      vkrav 7 October 2013 14: 42 New
      0
      Quote: Sirozha
      for example, Glock 17!

      If bursts, then Glock18
      1. the47th
        the47th 8 October 2013 13: 34 New
        0
        Glock-18 is in demand among niggas and mexicos, those who had enough money for it. A good replacement for artisanal TEC-9, Mikrozi and Ingram.
  10. intsurfer
    intsurfer 7 October 2013 13: 55 New
    +1
    Quote: Sirozha
    But on the account of the fact that not a single pistol firing in bursts has gained wide circulation in the world, you got excited! Recall, for example, Glock 17! ..

    a simple question - after how many minutes (and rather tens of seconds) the owner of the pistol + 3 clips will remain bare-handed in automatic shooting?
    1. tun1313
      tun1313 7 October 2013 17: 49 New
      +1
      It all depends on the workout, and so with a 10 second recharge it will fit. :) I'm lying a little more.
    2. Aristocrat
      Aristocrat 7 October 2013 23: 31 New
      +1
      Practical rate of fire 90 rounds per minute. In three clips 60 rounds. So count.
      But it’s not clear why exactly three? The APS is equipped with a leather pouch on the 4th store. Plus one in arms :)
      Total 100. The answer to your question is "just over a minute".
  11. Black Colonel
    Black Colonel 7 October 2013 14: 10 New
    +3
    Good afternoon!
    The author never mentioned the "personal experience" of using the APS: he either quoted someone, then retold someone's opinion. Therefore, the reference to "personal experience" is incorrect. A purely personal opinion from someone's experience of use, nothing more.
  12. gallville
    gallville 7 October 2013 14: 51 New
    +1
    It’s strange. Why is it worse than Beretta, which is widely used in the USA?
    And the PM advertisement in the article is not at all in any way. From ordinary PMa and from 25m. you need to be able to get to the shooting.
    1. papik09
      papik09 8 October 2013 13: 35 New
      +1
      You are right - NEEDED TO BE ABLE!
      From ordinary PMa and from 25m. you need to be able to get to the shooting.
    2. the47th
      the47th 8 October 2013 13: 36 New
      0
      If a person knows how to shoot, then he will fall. Russian weapons may be unpretentious, but you need to be able to shoot them.
  13. MRomanovich
    MRomanovich 7 October 2013 15: 40 New
    +5
    It always amazes me that everyone refers to exorbitant mass-dimensions of APS. It is really big, but not more than many foreign samples, not even automatic. And for some reason, with respect to them, there are only admiring oh-sighs, and an APS with illogical dimensions suddenly turns out to be huge.
  14. Sheriff
    Sheriff 7 October 2013 16: 18 New
    +2
    leonardo_1971 good afternoon about PM it's you in vain, a very reliable and reliable thing, the APS is also good, but you can’t hide it
    1. Aristocrat
      Aristocrat 7 October 2013 23: 33 New
      0
      If there is a need to hide ... It's about "legal" use by fighters and not by bandits :)
  15. From
    From 7 October 2013 16: 18 New
    0
    On the TV channel "Arms" in a program about weapons with actor Lee Ermey (served in the artillery), they demonstrated what the Glock-18 can do at short distances. The female instructor (winner of the shooting competition) and the host of the program were shooting. But even in the plot it was emphasized: the 18th model is not freely sold (in lots for special forces); the shorter the distance, the more guaranteed hits; rate of fire per 1000 rounds per minute (which means that the touch of the trigger with your finger should be short); holes are drilled in the barrel of the 18th to compensate for recoil (which should reduce the range of the target hitting distance (this is unimportant, in a fleeting city battle, hit the enemy with a pistol at a distance further 15 meters is very, very difficult.) On the Internet, they swear that, in addition to 18-cartridge magazines to order, they also manufacture 32-cartridge magazines for the Glock-100 (it’s not nonsense). Dignity of Glock-18: he heated the barrel with intense shooting - a spare part for replacement it weighs little and is installed quickly (it means that you can carry a spare barrel or a bolt casing with a barrel in it in a wearable set of equipment). Bike about the design feature of the PM: "... if a whispering tooth is worn out, bursts of fire starts." And if not bullshit, then for which semi-automatic systems does this feature turn into a useful feature?
    1. Bad_gr
      Bad_gr 7 October 2013 18: 48 New
      0
      Quote: Von
      On the Internet, they are swearing that for the Glock-18, in addition to 32-cartridge stores, custom-made and 100-cartridge type double-disc stores are manufactured (it’s not nonsense).

  16. Ilya Mikhalych
    Ilya Mikhalych 7 October 2013 16: 40 New
    +3
    "Makarov" with a silencer.
    I don’t know as an author, but I have never seen a Makarov with a silencer. There is a 6p9 pistol with a silencer - a relative of Makarov. Well, if you do not pay attention to such trifles, then the article is not bad.
  17. speron
    speron 7 October 2013 16: 52 New
    +5
    Each user has his own. But going to a serious operation where the main weapon will be a pistol, or as a spare for a sniper, most left the PM in the arms and took the APS. 20 patrons is not garbage. and to them 4 more stores of 20 and this is the standard equipment of weapons! At the PM 2 stores of 8 and go get extra from the gunsmiths. Maybe the author has something with his hands, but to remove from the fuse for a single fire without a second hand did not cause anyone a problem. On automatic, yes. easier to bring with the second hand, but the machine gun was fired only for entertainment. Equal accuracy with PM, this is something. Just from an APS at 25m for a sports pistol target, even with one hand is rare when you go beyond 8. On the chest from two arms at 100 m without problems, even while standing at least from your knee. For those who have a small brush to hold is not very convenient, that's all. Sights, but then no one made them wide with phosphociating points, etc. And to shoot the fastest series in two or three rounds as well as on the PM did not work, the mass of the shutter and the moderator make the automation softer. The reliability was one that came across stores with which the shutter did not close, so at first all the stores were shot back and which ones were necessary. 30-40 years at the warehouse make themselves felt.
    We must remember that any weapon is good for its time, or until more advanced models have appeared, and the APS has served its purpose even after retirement, and it’s good that in the 80-2000s there was an alternative to PMU
    1. Sochi
      Sochi 8 October 2013 20: 46 New
      0
      The author, apparently, is 1,20 m tall.
  18. MRomanovich
    MRomanovich 7 October 2013 16: 55 New
    0
    Quote: Von
    On the Internet, they are swearing that for the Glock-18, in addition to 32-cartridge stores, custom-made and 100-cartridge type double-disc stores are manufactured (it’s not nonsense).

    they don’t seem to be bullshit, on YouTube there was a video of a glock with such a magazine for 100 rounds
  19. 1c-inform-city
    1c-inform-city 7 October 2013 17: 23 New
    0
    Plus to the author. By the way, after all, he said that the APS is suitable for the units of the Ministry of Internal Affairs. So the respected 1971, he didn’t flinch in this. In fact, the whole thing is in a weak cartridge, which is not suitable for army use.
  20. Black
    Black 7 October 2013 17: 31 New
    +1
    In the first Chechen war, probably there was no Czech who dreamed of "Stechkin". I thought at first, justified, but eventually came to the conclusion, 100% show-off.
    1. Passer
      Passer 7 October 2013 23: 02 New
      +1
      In the second - too. Yes and now.
  21. xomaNN
    xomaNN 7 October 2013 17: 39 New
    0
    It is great that the topic of the Stechkin's effectiveness caused a discussion. And it was very interesting to hear the opinion of a pros who knows this weapon closely. I didn't have a chance to hold it in my hands winked Only in his large directory of small arms saw.
  22. Sashkessss
    Sashkessss 7 October 2013 18: 07 New
    -3
    Mechvod tankers and pilots loved this gun most likely because they could act like a hammer. I have not even raised other thoughts
  23. Massik
    Massik 7 October 2013 19: 39 New
    +7
    I thought here again Carden anneals, but no other author; what is alarming
    in the mid-eighties in Afghanistan as a tank company commander
    that is, the comrade already had a rank no lower than captain or major, and by the events of the 1st and 2nd Chechen it should already be at least a underground, in such ranks they are not already attacking and stripping in the front ranks, most likely the author heard reviews from authoritative people, well, certainly not the APS itself
  24. Tommygun
    Tommygun 7 October 2013 19: 52 New
    +3
    My father served from 86 to 88 in Mozambique. The blacks had everything they could: Colts, Berettas, etc. But father always considered the APS as the best pistol.
  25. faraon
    faraon 7 October 2013 19: 55 New
    0
    Pistols do not matter what modification this melee weapon, which in capable hands can be a formidable weapon as a defense and attack. In other cases, it is a purely psychological weapon indicating that the one who wears it has serious intentions. irrelevant.
  26. motorized rifle
    motorized rifle 7 October 2013 20: 05 New
    10
    I, in the first place, served as a grenade launcher and APS, was my second STANDARD weapon! It is strange that the author does not know about this while talking about motorized riflemen. In a motorized rifle company, 9 grenade launchers and each had an APS. PMs were at the BMP mechanics and PKM gunners, and at the officers, but the sniper did not rely on a pistol. Another thing is that we fired negligible amounts of them, i.e. Nominally, never, and during the shooting of the officers of the district headquarters "with children and households", sometimes it was possible to shoot. To be honest, for a motorized rifleman, if the weapon does not provide a reliable hit at 300m and reliable enough at 600m, then it is not interesting. You can argue a lot on this topic, but really for line units, pistols (any), it is more a show-off, as it takes for a paratrooper, beautiful, but no good. Also, in the summer of 1983 in the Omsk training camp, I had to see how the instructor worked with two APS and grenades, showing the battle in the building, it was something! Such flexibility of fire! And due to the large capacity of the store, he gave the density if necessary and the autonomy was at the level. Well, about the article, in my opinion, the author did not dispel the myths, but caught up with the fog, and the thoughts of a person with practical experience in the use of APS, I did not see something, but it's a pity, I so wanted to read.
    1. sedoj
      sedoj 7 October 2013 22: 21 New
      +2
      In principle, I agree. He served in 75-77gg. In the infantry division on the BMP, the Stechkins relied on the state for mechanized water and nav.-operators. In case of leaving the car, for protection in close combat. And I can’t argue with the author - everything is somehow muddy with him. Either weak in shooting, then increased power.
    2. Aristocrat
      Aristocrat 7 October 2013 23: 41 New
      0
      Hmm ... When and where did you serve if not a secret?
      I served in reconnaissance and did not see the APS in my eyes, only two AKMs with PBS, everything else is standard like on motorized rifles.
      Don't think that I don't believe you, it's just an unprecedented "fat" for the Russian army ...
      1. sedoj
        sedoj 9 October 2013 20: 52 New
        +1
        77th year. Motorized Rifle Regiment in Abakan, though cropped. There was a weapon in the armory, according to the staff list. But the guys were not allowed to shoot from the APS. The sergeant squad shot from the AKM. Gunners-operators - from full-time weapons BMP, and mechanics - constant driving. Shoot a lot - one week a month at the training ground. So to the demobilization sergeant C grade shot from the belt.
  27. Fedya
    Fedya 7 October 2013 20: 52 New
    +1
    And today, for some reason, I dreamed about him!
  28. official
    official 7 October 2013 22: 51 New
    +1
    I will also insert my 5 kopecks. Previously, he often worked with special forces in urban settings, and therefore trained together. So for cleaning the premises and work in the building in the Ukrainian realities there was nothing better than APS. Well, we didn’t have such a variety of pistols - machine guns and other short barrels. Maybe in the central office in Kiev, the guys had Heckler Kohi, and Cypresses with Bison, and on the periphery - AKSU and APS. Then (somewhere in 2003 - 2005) all the APS were withdrawn, 1-2 were left for the unit, those that could be used with the PBS, the rest were replaced with Forts. Well, what can I say - the ergonomics are certainly better, but the APS is somehow dearer or something ... Communicating with "colleagues" from the other side of the barricades :) I often heard requests from them to help get the APS, the barrel was popular!
    In general, familiar specialists repeatedly said that recently, due to the quality of cartridges 9X18, APSs have become a lot of misfires. This is due to the fallen quality of the cartridges of the Lugansk cartridge plant and (supposedly) a decrease in the powder charge in them, which leads to non-reloading of the gun. So in our realities APS, alas, the past century .....
  29. Passer
    Passer 7 October 2013 22: 58 New
    0
    We did not have an APS in the baht, although it is possible that something was lying around in the bins (I worked in the storage - TT, SKS, RD and other rarities), but he was not particularly interested in anyone. The only time I came across in a near-combat situation: at the end of 1999 I met a medical girl from the Ministry of Emergency Situations. About the features of the combat use of this device, I did not ask her, but I do not think that the girl is 1m. 60cm could fully unleash the potential of this weapon.
    Although the Czechs love APS, but in my opinion this is a mentality.
  30. motorized rifle
    motorized rifle 8 October 2013 07: 02 New
    +1
    Quote: Aristocrat
    Hmm ... When and where did you serve if not a secret?
    I served in reconnaissance and did not see the APS in my eyes, only two AKMs with PBS, everything else is standard like on motorized rifles.
    Don't think that I don't believe you, it's just an unprecedented "fat" for the Russian army ...


    Served 1981-83gg. All pistols were kept by the person on duty in part, in the rank and file, i.e. it was NEVER handed out to the hand-gunners or PKM machine gunners or mechanical drivers, nor did they carry out training firing from it. Only by chance (the officers took some fun at the shooting range), I managed to shoot from the APS and several times from the PM.
  31. maklaut007
    maklaut007 8 October 2013 08: 11 New
    +1
    I think that the APS is our answer to Comrade Mauser))) The thing is more status than technically justified. Lacquered holster, on two strips, beating under the knee. So you feel like a commissar in a dusty budenovka))). Or a sailor Zhelezyaka))
  32. intsurfer
    intsurfer 8 October 2013 11: 42 New
    0
    Quote: Aristocrat
    Just do not understand why exactly three?
    He wrote a number at random. ;) In any case, with automatic mode, after a few minutes, a piece of iron will be in your hands, which can still be thrown into the head of the enemy.
  33. papik09
    papik09 8 October 2013 13: 43 New
    +4
    The author put "+" (bold laughing) Article - good one. I will not argue about the advantages and disadvantages of APS, but I assure everyone that the gun is very good. By the way, PM is no worse. Simply, you need to BE ABLE to use that one, that the other. Something like that, here. laughing
  34. Sour
    Sour 9 October 2013 21: 07 New
    +2
    All modern submachine guns, including the APS, cannot be considered a full-fledged weapon on the battlefield, their fire capabilities are very limited. It is difficult to even say in what situations such a weapon can be used. It is suitable, rather, for the employees of the Ministry of Internal Affairs to carry out the tasks of apprehending criminals peculiar to this department. And in modern combat its use is ineffective. In this regard, the decommissioning of such a good, at first glance, a pistol, like the APS, was quite natural and justified.
    Ready to subscribe to every word.
    With one caveat. As a former officer of various structures of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, I will say that "to carry out the tasks peculiar to this department of arresting criminals " APS is also of little use, because it is not suitable for concealed carry, so it is not needed by operatives. And as a police submachine gun is also of little use, "Cedar" is definitely better. I fired from the APS only once, but this was enough to have my own opinion about him. Sorry if you offended anyone.
  35. Strv
    Strv 2 November 2013 13: 26 New
    0
    It is strange to read that increased power is of the type inconsequential. Now everything is in bulletproof vests, how about firing at such targets, compared to PM?
  36. almaz2011
    almaz2011 11 December 2013 18: 10 New
    +1
    All December 1985 spent on a business trip in Lviv in the motorized rifle regiment of the 24th motorized rifle division. APS pistols were assigned to foremen mouth. Personal impressions of the shooting are clearly not in favor of the APS - burst shooting does not stand up to criticism in terms of accuracy, and single shooting is no better than from PM.
  37. asr55
    asr55 20 February 2019 02: 09 New
    0
    "All modern submachine guns, including APS, cannot be considered a full-fledged weapon on the battlefield, their fire capabilities are very limited. It is even difficult to say in what situations such weapons can be used. ..." What is it ? Who is the affter of this writing !? I would also write about Mauser! And how do you represent this battlefield, what tasks did you perform there with the APS. Maybe you were shooting back from the APS in the trench? Then you just, APS is definitely not for this. If as the last chance, God forbid everyone will have the APS. There is no point in writing about this unique pistol with the ability to conduct automatic fire, everything has been written about it, everything that it could deserve and will still serve. And I will definitely say that the APS has never been useless. For fools and a gun is useless like any weapon.