The cruiser "Ukraine". Photo report

Russia again begins to show interest in the unfinished cruiser "Ukraine". Hvil presents you the opportunity to see what this ship looks like inside.

The leadership of the Russian Navy is considering the possibility of buying the Ukraine missile cruiser, which is not completed in Ukraine.

The topic of the completion of the cruiser and its possible purchase by Russia was discussed at the subcommittee on defense and security issues of the Russian-Ukrainian intergovernmental commission.

The commander-in-chief of the Russian Navy said that all options would be considered by the next meeting of the subcommittee, which will be held in the fourth quarter of 2010 of the year.

It so happened that at the end of November 2008, I visited the cruiser "Ukraine" and after that a number of photos remained. I think that many of our readers will be interested in what Russia wants to buy from Ukraine.

At once I will make a reservation that the photos do not give an idea of ​​the scale of this ship. When you find yourself on it, it seems that you got into one of the series of "Star Wars", so cosmic is the scale of the cruiser. It is here, as nowhere else, that there is a gap between today's Ukraine and the country that was able to build this ship. This is why it is a little sad that the scale of tasks that we are capable of solving today is several orders of magnitude smaller, whereas the scale of challenges is growing in progression.

Here is the cruiser from the water.

Cruiser near. I apologize for the quality, I made a photo with a phone with a 2 megapixel camera.

Near the slipway

Michmansky Kubrick

This is a series of photos from the control center of the ship.

Good old Soviet phones there

I do not know what it is, but it seemed interesting, there are all sorts of buttons

This, I understand, the radar screen

One type of control center. Inside, the ship looks like an old-fashioned, sterile museum.

And this is a lift

Cabin Campaign for Officers

List of phones on board

Cabin Campaign

Such cute curtains, and behind them the Basalt launcher

The chair is attached to the floor with a special hook.

The piano still plays great.

Officer's cabin. Bathroom with toilet

Bedroom

Appartments

Sea comfort :)

View of the basalt launchers from the bridge

The bridge itself, actually

The whole ship is made with various kinds of antennas.

Cyclopean construction

On the bridge

There are a lot of different devices, I do not even guess about the purpose of many. In this case, everything seems to be clear.

Here is such a cabin. There sits on each side of the watch, which looks forward. And the helmsman is in a separate booth, in fact, he does not even see what lies ahead.

This is the helmsman booth

Small forward

That was near the periscopes

All

According to experts, the cost of this ship can fluctuate at the level of 400-600 million dollars. I think that, given the current state of Ukraine, the sale of the Russian cruiser would be the best way out of this situation. Back in December 2009, the director of the Treasury research and design center for shipbuilding (Nikolaev), Yevgeny Borisov, gave a fairly clear description of the situation regarding the cruiser.

“Would you like to buy a ship that was laid back in the 80s, the technical design of which was approved in 1974? During this time, at least three generations of military equipment changed. In the form as it is, the ship is obsolete. Part weapons, which is on it, has already been decommissioned in Russia. Therefore, naturally, they are all in thought, ”said the expert to“ New Region ”.

“Russia has already started the construction of frigates, the following destroyer destroyers. And in their combat effectiveness, they are comparable to this cruiser project, ”said Borisov.

“As for the operating cruiser“ Moscow ”, it has undergone some modernization. It replaced the shock-missile system, completed a number of modernization work. But, nevertheless, the cruiser "Moscow" was handed over to the USSR Navy back in December 1982 of the year. It's been 27 years. And the service life of the ship - 30 years. Draw conclusions ", - summed up the Ukrainian shipbuilder.

Comments

[tronin.maxim]

It is easier for Ukraine to sell it to us than to maintain it ourselves. And we need such ships as needed.

[Orik]

Niii ... You can’t give M. Scala, let him drown at the pier, only to the Chinese.

[Sirozha]

You need to think before you write!

[Orik]

Well, remind me to whom our Ukrainian brothers gave TARK Varyag. To simplify the task, you have three possible answers: they sold to Russia, sold to China, you yourself cut into scrap metal.

[Akim]

Quote: Orik

To simplify the task, you have three possible answers: they sold to Russia, sold to China, you yourself cut into scrap metal.

Did Russia have money then?

[Orik]

The fact that Russia has oil and gas, Ukraine has metallurgy, but instead of raw materials for its factories, it is sold "for scrap" to China. I think those who warmed their hands on this deal clearly realized what a "scrap" it was.

[Kars]

Quote: Orik

Metallurgy of Ukraine, but instead of raw materials for their factories, they are sold "for scrap" to China

Nakoy is funny)) Do you remember the price of scrap metal in the year Varyag was sold to a company not registered in China? The selling price is about 4 times the price of scrap metal + huge costs to cut such a volume. Or do you think two homeless people and a propane tank are enough?

[Orik]

Stop lying, you quote:

it’s the same heavy aircraft carrier “Varyag” that Ukraine in 1998 sold unfinished to companies from Macau for just $ 28 million.

Macao Special Administrative Region (port. Macau) or Aomin (Chinese trade. 澳門, exercise 澳门, pinyin: Àomén, pall .: Aomin, Aomen; yale. Oumun, cant. Oumun) is an autonomous territory within the People’s Republic of China.

Therefore, dear the price four times higher than the market, confirm with documents and links, otherwise I completely lie. That is 28 lyams instead of 20, then Macau is not China.

[Kars]

Quote: Orik

and answer options: sold to Russia, sold to China, themselves cut into scrap metal

Interestingly, all three options are not correct.


and by the way, do not know where the Soviet aircraft carriers of the Cruiser disappeared?

[Orik]

The Varangian (until June 19, 1990 - Riga, from September 25, 2012 - Liaoning [2]) - a heavy aircraft-carrying cruiser, and after dismantling strike weapons - an aircraft carrier. It belonged earlier to the USSR and Ukraine, and now it is in service with the PRC (Navy of the People's Liberation Army).

Get involved ... tanks dear.
Or another option, they gave the Chinese as a gift?

[Kars]

it’s the same heavy aircraft carrier “Varyag” that Ukraine in 1998 sold unfinished to companies from Macau for just $ 28 million.

[Orik]

Enough to invent, 28 million. Is this with a rollback for officials?

In 1993, under an agreement between Ukraine and Russia, the Varyag went to Ukraine. In 1992, with 67% technical readiness, construction was suspended, the ship was mothballed and in April 1998 it was sold to the Chinese company Chong Lot Travel Agency Ltd for $ 20 million, as it was announced, to organize a floating entertainment center with a casino. The towing of the ship lasted 627 days (Turkey, under US pressure for 16 months, refused to pass it through the Bosphorus). [3] [4]

[Kars]

)))))) Wikipedia is your EVERYTHING. You take a little interest in the topic.

Quote: Orik

Macao Special Administrative Region (port. Macau) or Aomin (Chinese trade. 澳門, exercise 澳门, pinyin: Àomén, pall .: Aomin, Aomen; yale. Oumun, cant. Oumun) is an autonomous territory within the People’s Republic of China.

Since 1999, and the deal was in 1998.

As part of the gradual expansion of self-government in 1989, municipal parliaments were established in Macau and the islands; most of their members were Chinese. In May 1991, the Macau Government (Executive Council), which consisted of 7 divisions, began work. Then the number of members of the Legislative Assembly was increased to 23 (of which 8 were elected by direct vote). 9 deputies were Chinese. Candidates representing the interests of the business community won the election in the 1996 assembly: they won 4 seats, the representation of pro-Chinese political groups fell from 4 to 3, and democratic groups fell from 2 to 1. By agreement with China, the term of the meeting was extended to 2001.
Chinese authorities have approved billionaire Edmund Ho, one of the leaders of the largest Typhoon bank, as the head of the executive branch of the future special region. In anticipation of the transfer of Macao to China, measures have been taken to somewhat restrain the growth of organized crime, from which the territory was hit hard in the 1990s. One of the gangster bosses, Wan Gokhoy, was sentenced to 15 years in prison. On December 20, 1999, in accordance with the 1987 agreement, Macau was transferred to the PRC.

[Kars]

Here from another source where the price of scrap metal is mentioned

it’s a separate big topic, almost a detective story. Ivan Vinnik, the chief builder of aircraft carriers in the past, knows her best of all, and when Varyag was sold, he was deputy general director of ChSZ. He received the Chinese delegation, and then repeatedly flew to the "Varangian" in Dalian. The cost of an aircraft carrier as scrap metal at world prices was about five million dollars. China paid, as I said, 20 million and won the tender. However, even at that time it was clear that the ship was not bought as scrap metal or a casino, but as a future aircraft carrier.
Read more: http://vpk-news.ru/articles/13120

[Orik]

Q.E.D. The first was bought by CHINA (!) And why were you needing to talk about Macau?! The second, as an Aircraft Carrier, therefore, the price is higher than for scrap, it is the price for the construction technology, the assembly of such large and complex vessels. Truncated.
Now let's turn to the cruiser "Ukraine". There are no new technologies for Russia; China does not need this cruiser. in order to complete the construction, they will need to design the ship and design, create its weapon systems in metal anew, a modern destroyer in terms of cost-efficiency is as profitable as possible; Ukraine is not needed because she can't finish building it. Therefore, the PRICE OF SCRAP is adequate, you will also save on cutting, and we will spend money on dismantling outdated and unusable equipment.

[Kars]

Quote: Orik

First, I bought it CHINA (

A private company from Macau, and how she disposed of it is another matter.

Quote: Orik

Second, as an Aircraft Carrier,

Like a case under CASINO.

Quote: Orik

yen higher than scrap

Well, at least they realized something compared to the initial throw-in

Quote: Orik

Ukraine has metallurgy, but instead of raw materials for their factories, they sell it "for scrap" to China

Quote: Orik

For Russia there are no new technologies;

No.

Quote: Orik

China does not need this cruiser. to finish they need to design a ship and design

Are you too bent, or have you personally been told from China? At the same time, China already has almost all the components - it sold the RF itself.
For example
The HHQ-9 complex is a copy or a Chinese revision of the Russian anti-aircraft complex S-300FM RIF.

Quote: Orik

Ukraine does not need it because she cannot finish it

It can finish, but why?

Quote: Orik

Therefore, the PRICE of METAL SCRIPT is adequate,

Well, tell me, tell me - the new engines of decent money are worth it. The gun turret has a couple of millions, the units are aggregates - so it won’t work with scrap metal. It’s more profitable to interrogate.

[Akim]

Quote: Orik

You can’t give M., let him drown at the pier, only to the Chinese

Give him a normal price and take it. For me, it's better to let it disappear than to get 30 lyam for it.

[Zhenya]

Akim, have you seen its quality? Why rot him if he can serve faithfully? You're not right!

[Akim]

Quote: Marrying

Why rot him

I have no phobia regarding my neighbors. I would even be glad if he joined the Russian fleet. But the price offered by the RF Ministry of Defense is too ridiculous, even mocking. It must be raised at least 5 times.

[Ramadan]

So pick up, no question! Now, market relations))))) Only you will not buy it again)))
The funny thing is that Ukrainians think that they are the smartest, well, or smarter than "eh" for sure)))))

[Orik]

The price of scrap metal is the normal price since without the main caliber and the C300, it costs nothing like a ship; over the years it spent more on its maintenance. I’ll not eat it myself, so I’m biting it. Let rot, avaricious pays twice.

[Akim]

Quote: Orik

and since without the main caliber and C300 he is like a ship

Let it rot or take it apart! Ukraine, he doesn’t need a fig. More than half of all IUDs will gobble up fuel in one exit. But giving him a penny is a mockery. Now is not the 90s, and Ukraine is not starving for currency deficit. You can’t sell your personal car for a penny, just because you don’t use it? I can make more money out of it.

[Genry]

Quote: Akim

Now is not the 90s and Ukraine is not starving for currency deficit

She just takes loans from someone who will give (China, Russia, the IMF, ...), without thinking about paying back. Moreover, everyone wants to get rid of this currency.
But gas has to be bought for rubles. That's the problem ... with the "smelly gas" and the corresponding collapse of the Ukrainian chemical industry.

Quote: Akim

You can’t sell your personal car for a penny, just because you don’t use it? I can make more money out of it.

What do you get from an unfinished and stepless car of 30 years "aging", without spare parts. You have to pay extra for disposal.

[ildar335]

I left a post there below about the submarine "Zaporozhye", the akim please read it!)))

[Fin]

Quote: Akim

Let it rot or take it apart! Ukraine, he doesn’t need a fig.

And for me, let them pick it up by themselves, than it rots in the garden. Yes, you made people laugh.

Quote: Akim

You can’t sell your personal car for a penny, just because you don’t use it? I can make more money out of it.

Do you use it? So take it apart! Who is bothering?

Quote: Akim

But giving him a penny is a mockery.

The Chinese have already laughed at you, and there were several times more metal.

[Akim]

Quote: Fin

The Chinese have already laughed at you, and there were several times more metal.

You compare the situation and money 15 years ago.

[rolik]

Quote: Akim

Let it rot or take apart

Yeah yeah, here it is)))) finally we hear the primordially Ukrainian nature:
- I will not eat - so I bite.
Which, in other matters, is not particularly surprising.

[Ramadan]

What kind of mockery can we talk about if you do not have money for its maintenance, not to mention its completion? What can you come up with even funnier?
Let’s calm down and stop talking bare asses to each other. Although they say a cheap show off is more expensive than money)))))

[Akim]

Quote: Ramazan

if you do not have money for its maintenance, not to mention its completion

Do not think that Ukraine is a country of rogue. There is money for maintenance. They will not be allocated for the completion, because it is not interesting to anyone except Russia and is not needed. This is where the market is. Your "Gorshkov" was also remade not for their own money, although Russia is far from a poor country. There will be an agreement on completion - another matter. 30 million dollars is not funny, it is a mockery, because it is less than the price of the Ka-32. Not an equivalent exchange of a cruiser for a helicopter.

[Ramadan]

But where does the Ka-32?
Compare a large rusty truck, without engine and wheels, with the latest sports bike))))

[cdrt]

For me, it's better to let it disappear than to get 30 lyam for it.

This phrase contains the whole Ukrainian national character
I work a lot with Ukraine, how does it bother you
So many profitable deals (financially and economically beneficial for the Ukrainian side, thank God economics and finance are not national disciplines ) Ukrainian colleagues are not trying to buy pennies for pennies, to win even when you already say - stop, you earn, I earn, beyond that I won’t give you anything - they still try to win again. And when they then start weaving that they protect their interests - such nonsense! Greed and pettiness as a national trait
would learn from the Americans or something. With those - agreed, signed, hands on and on, everything is extremely easy. Without winning, pettiness, etc.

Tell the proverb "how ... was born, ... hanged himself" arrogance flies, but mortal resentment

[Far East]

Quote: cdrt

Tell the proverb "how ... was born, ... hanged himself" arrogance flies, but the offense is fatal

nothing personal! I'm talking about a saying! ".. THE CHOL was BORN, THE JEW Cried!"

[Ramadan]

You can’t say more precisely, I’ve got to the very essence.
Just as they do not like to listen to the truth about themselves ....

[biglow]

Quote: Akim

Quote: Orik

You can’t give M., let him drown at the pier, only to the Chinese

Give him a normal price and take it. For me, it's better to let it disappear than to get 30 lyam for it.

here is an expression of typical Ukrainian redneckness, in Russian it is called - neither to myself nor to people .. It’s probably more profitable to give interest on loans than to sell something, especially not needed

[Akim]

Quote: biglow

in Russian it is called - neither to itself nor to people

Something I did not notice the modern Russian government in altruism. And what you call "redneck" is a normal Russian reaction. The merchants were ready to rot their goods than to give it away for nothing (not cheap - feel the difference).

[rolik]

Quote: Akim

Something I did not notice the modern Russian government in altruism

So much has been given to your power during the division of the Union, for thanks that any other country does not dare to imagine. And your leaders have all ... wrecked and ruined. Nobody helped them in this, they did everything themselves. They did it due to their excessive greed and greed again. Enough to be with you altruists, buy. You can’t buy, then it’s not yours.
And then forever in the troubles of Ukraine Mosk .... whether you are to blame, you yourself are to blame for everything. I do not feel guilty about Ukraine, only a deeply guilty feeling ... ia. How! Could ALL REQUEST .... AT ????
And in general, the name of the organization itself leads to a bad thought, Ukroboronprom, Ukrnaftogaz and all with the prefix UKR .. It seems that it is derived from the word steal ????

[Akim]

Quote: rolik

How! Could ALL REQUEST .... AT ????

You lived in Belarus, then you would not have asked the same question. And what is better with you?

[Kars]

Quote: Akim

And what is better with you?

How can you compare (())) They succeeded ... much more than Ukraine.

[rolik]

Quote: Akim

And what is better with you?

At least by the roads)))) This summer I happened to drive across Ukraine twice. After these rides, I had only one word .... Scribe !!!!
About the defense industry, new industries, you can still not talk)))
By the way, I also drove through Belarus. The roads are excellent, the country is neat. Very good opinion about the country.

[Akim]

Quote: rolik

At least by the roads)))) This summer I happened to drive across Ukraine twice. After these rides, I had only one word .... Scribe !!!!

So we drove along the same roads. In the Rostov region the same garbage.

[rolik]

Quote: Akim

So we drove along the same roads.

I don't know what roads you drove, but my car and I were resting after the Ukrainian autobahns. And I traveled from Arkhangelsk, through Moscow, along the Minsk highway, and so on to Bulgaria and back. Even the Ukrainian so-called "autobahn" Kiev-Odessa, at first I was delighted with the normal road, but in vain, this is 200 km of a normal road and then patches and patches on the patch)))) In general, as I said, Scribe)))) Particular bewilderment caused the asphalt under the bark were some, either roots, or stumps, or even figs knows what, a surreal spectacle)))) A friend, too, traveled through Ukraine this summer, and he also had the first impression of these waves and influxes on asphalt. He was completely out of this, next year he will do Schengen, just not to go through Ukraine)))) If you are interested Take a ride to Arkhangelsk, you will be unpleasantly surprised that the damned Musc ... ley have better roads than magnificent Ukrainians. Although the Arkhangelsk region has always been on the lagging roads, even under the USSR. The roads were then slightly better than the current ones in Ukraine))))))

[Akim]

Quote: rolik

you will be unpleasantly surprised that the damned Muscovites have better roads than the magnificent Ukrainians.

No need to jerk. About Kiev-Odessa - yes, the road became rubbish. So 10 years have passed. It must be supported. The whole question rests on pennies.

[Misantrop]

Quote: Akim

The whole question rests on pennies.

It’s not a question about pennies, but pennies go into your pocket. Last year my brother came from Moscow to Crimea in a Peugeot-206, so in this he barely drove along the SAME road in a Toyota Hilux. According to him, where there used to be roads, now there are only directions. Especially - in the border area near Kharkov

[rolik]

Quote: Akim

So 10 years have passed. It must be supported. The whole question rests on pennies.

But in our country, on the contrary, in 10 years the M-8 road has been brought to a state - at a speed of 110 km, you can eat soup from a plate with a spoon and you won’t get dirty. Here is such a difference. Even the Vinogradovsky district of the Arkhangelsk region, where 10 years ago it was easier to drive along the sidelines, there were fewer pits. Now, as the table is rolled up, you drive the car will not move.
That's actually all this "small" difference. but about the mockery, I am far from that. It just strains the already constant desire to get us to apologize. for anything, but the main thing is to apologize. There is nothing for us to apologize for, and not to anyone, they apologized already with EBN to the full

[Akim]

Quote: rolik

It’s just annoying already the constant desire to get an apology from us. at least for what, but the main thing is to apologize.

You are having a dialogue with me. I apologized to you ?! I don’t need it, but there’s nothing for you to apologize for.

[Dober]

Quote: Akim

Merchants were ready to rot their goods, than give it away for nothing.

(not cheap - feel the difference).
Akimushka, this happens with many goods, and very often. But this is called "market saturation". There are not many such ships.
My vision of the situation. Drive him to the empty Finnish shipyards. How much does it cost to drive around Europe. A year later, the finca will make candy out of it. (without arming) Then you will push to Russia. Maybe they will buy for a mular. (in comparison with "Mistrals" - normal).
Then subtract the costs and get 30-50 lyam.
Everyone is happy.....

[rolik]

Quote: Dober

Then subtract the costs and get 30-50 lyam.

This is too complicated arithmetic))))) For them, it’s better, the goods are money, and you need to give money right now.

[Misantrop]

Quote: rolik

It’s better for them, the goods are money, and money must be given right now.

... and the goods will not be released yet, the customs will rest

[rolik]

Quote: Misantrop

and then the goods will not be released yet, customs will rest

And it will also be necessary to give customs. I do not think that they work at customs such as Vereshchagin, rather the opposite)))) I personally made sure again this summer))))

[Dober]

"The product is right now, and we'll give you gas later ... in the summer"
/ Millar. The one from old tales. /
A month later, the cruiser is already standing at the wall in Novorossiysk, and Shoigu is spinning the disk on that phone, from the picture ...

[Akim]

Quote: Dober

There are not so many such ships.

But there is only one potential buyer.

[Dober]

Quote: Akim

But there is only one potential buyer.

You yourself know that this is not so. This is not a serial tank or plane. This is a unique vesch. Not everyone needs it, not everyone can afford it, but brought to its logical conclusion - they will tear it off with their hands. You can name a dozen countries with a more or less stable economy. Not Ameria, but such as Brazil, South Africa, Australia (it can, by the way, be put into operation on its own). In such a situation, for Russia it is a voiced slap in the face. Here are brother-Ukrainians and enjoy.

"I have joy today - I did something nasty to someone"
/AT. Yushchenko. Recording "in blozhik" for grade 3. /

[77bor1973]

Actually, this ship was not built by Ukraine, but you are talking about its price as if everything was built by Ukraine from keel to klotik, and they give you such a percentage of the cost of goods.

[Akim]

Quote: 77bor1973

Actually, this ship was not built by Ukraine,

Well, let's share the drilling and other technological crap. That's it, the train has left. At the moment, this product, in the form of a cruiser, belongs to Ukraine and no one will count every “rivet”.

[Pancir026]

Quote: Akim

Quote: 77bor1973

Actually, this ship was not built by Ukraine,

Well, let's share the drilling and other technological crap. That's it, the train has left. At the moment, this product, in the form of a cruiser, belongs to Ukraine and no one will count every “rivet”.

Has your left? This can be seen. In 90, Ukraine was 4 times superior to Turkey in terms of aggregate power. And now, at the level of some kind of Burkina Faso, with a tendency to fall even lower .. They sold and betrayed everything that is possible .. where to go ...

[Genry]

Quote: Akim

Give him a normal price and take it. For me, it's better to let it disappear than to get 30 lyam for it.

If the Chinese did not buy it, then the Russians do not need it, much less, according to your conditions.
Now buying it is like buying a T-55 tank. And repair and modernization without a rumor is not possible.
He lagged far behind. A full move of 31 knots is not suitable for fighting aircraft carriers with 30 knots.
What "Khvilya" writes or presents is a continuous low-quality order. They showed the exhibition part, and everything else is shame.

[edge]

[quote = Akim] [quote = Orik] For me, it’s better to let it disappear than 30 lyam for it. [/ quote]
whoa ... what ........ lo, in a year, another you will be glad and 200 pieces ....... No one will give you 30 Lyamas, or will leave you without pants in return. The Chinas won 40 hectares of fertile land from the Kyrgyz for unpaid loans, and 000 mill.ha from the Kazakhs ......

[Kars]

The leadership of the State Enterprise “Shipbuilding Plant named after 61 Communards” offers to disassemble and implement the systems, mechanisms, device and armament of the unfinished missile cruiser “Ukraine”. This is stated in a letter from the plant’s director general Vladimir Berko to the head of the Ukroboronprom state concern, Sergey Gromov, dated August 29, 2013, the text of which is owned by the editors of Crime.
“For 20 years, the issue of completing the construction of the cruiser, or of selling it to third countries has not been resolved. Despite the decisions of the highest authorities, both in terms of completion and implementation, questions remained without permits. Based on the regulatory and technical documentation, the systems mounted on the ship, mechanisms, devices and weapons are morally and physically obsolete and will not be suitable for further operation, "the letter says.
Based on this, the management of the enterprise asked Ukroboronprom State Corporation for consent and permission to prepare a draft resolution of the Cabinet of Ministers of Ukraine to write off the order, dismantle and implement systems, mechanisms, devices and weapons.

"This decision will allow the state to abandon the costs of maintaining the cruiser and partially cover the costs (of the plant - PN) for the construction and maintenance of the cruiser. The solution of these issues will also allow the proceeds from the sale of goods and materials, equipment and the hull of the ship, to send to pay wages, repair and restoration of slipway No. 3. The main result of resolving the issue by order of No. 1148 (cruiser "Ukraine") will allow conducting economic activities on slipway No. 3 for its intended purpose, "said Vladimir Berko, general director of the 61 Communards Shipyard.

[rolik]

Quote: Kars

send to payroll, repair and restoration of the slipway

The trouble ((((If this money reaches the workers, and does not disappear in a multitude of through banks.

[cth; fyn]

I think that the acquisition of "Ukraine" is a pretty good deal. In practice, we will get another hunter for aircraft carriers, the same as "Moscow", but better, because on it it is necessary to carry out a full-fledged modernization due to the fact that some systems have already been removed from service, and if it is so modernized, what is really stingy? To put everything new and "Moscow" to the dock for modernization, otherwise we throw it all over the world here and there, and the boat also needs care.

[Fin]

Quote: cth; fyn

I think that the acquisition of "Ukraine" is a pretty good deal.

There is only a housing and maybe the power plant is worth something. Cut the rest, dismantle, order a new one, etc. And drag to Severodvinsk, what is the best deal?
New ships need to be laid, and not Lada reanimate.

[rolik]

Quote: Fin

There is only a building

That's it - the case. And ... that's it. But this is a big plus, time is reduced, there is no slipway period.

[eplewke]

How much more money is needed to complete and modernize it ... The question of expediency raises an edge ...

[cth; fyn]

One fig not build from scratch, but they were built with "Moscow" on the same project.

[Egoza]

Quote: eplewke

The question of expediency raises an edge ...

Considering what was designed and built in the "damned Soviet era", it may be worth investing in modernization. "Moscow" is walking. They built it reliably. Anyway ... just imagine the headlines in the media - Moscow bought Ukraine. Immediately in Ukraine, many Kondraty enough !!! Take it guys do not hesitate!

[Mhpv]

Quote: Egoza

Moscow bought the "Ukraine". laughing

It's like on the market — before you make a serious purchase, you first need to buy something inexpensive.

[HAM]

First you need to buy something unnecessary, and then this is unnecessary sell-quote from the cartoon ..

[123dv]

Why should there be little things, you need to take Ukraine! All ...
The ship itself, the shipyard to him, to him the city of Nikolaev and further on the list!

[atos_kin]

A ship with this name is the stupidest example of a national "Svidomo". Imagine other headlines in the media as well: "Ukraine has crashed!" "Ukraine has sunk!" "Ukraine" ran aground! "Captain of" Ukraine "Bandera! Etc.

[Prapor-527]

Kondrat will have enough not for Ukraine, but for amers, as in 2008 - 'Russia attacked Georgia'

[edge]

Quote: Egoza

"Moscow" is walking. They built it reliably. Anyway ...

Peter the Great walks, the Varangian walks .... and they will walk for a long time, and the Amer’s aug will work well.

[Roman1970]

Quote: Egoza

Quote: eplewke

The question of expediency raises an edge ...

Considering what was designed and built in the "damned Soviet era", it may be worth investing in modernization. "Moscow" is walking. They built it reliably. Anyway ... just imagine the headlines in the media - Moscow bought Ukraine. Immediately in Ukraine, many Kondraty enough !!! Take it guys do not hesitate!

Five points! Laughing for a long time!

[silver_roman]

if Russia does buy it, it is unlikely to modernize. Most likely it will be a donor for "Moscow" and "Varyag".

[Fin]

Quote: silver_roman

Most likely it will be a donor for "Moscow" and "Varyag".

And Ustinova.

[Yarik]

And what is there to "donate", the body and the machines?

[eplewke]

Powertrain! Case piles and partitions. Yes, in general, in general, a lot of things can be removed from there ..

[Algor73]

If you approach with responsibility, then not so much. If again kickbacks, sharing, theft, etc., then this is like the Sochi Olympic construction site, a lot, even a lot. It all depends on the will of senior officials.

[HAM]

I believe that it’s better to do new things than redo the old one, and less money will go away, and there will be less headache.

[True]

Who will do it? Sales managers? By procurement? Maybe the oil industry? In general, this performance is tired. The camp has no future under this power. This is understood by everyone who has eyes and brains!

[velikoros-xnumx]

Quote: HAM

I believe that it’s better to do new things than redo the old one, and less money will go away, and there will be less headache.

Very controversial

[HAM]

Have you ever try to remake something old, for example a bathroom at home. Then decide whether it is debatable or not.

[chunga-changa]

Take with the condition of basing in Sevastopol before cancellation.

[Zhenya]

In general, the quality of the ship is disgusting, it needs to stand at the shipyard for 3-4 years to bring it to mind. The Ukrainian politicians are worthless, the ship rotted in the port - a shame!

[Kars]

Quote: Marrying

Wow, the price to Ukrainian politicians,

Well, don’t tell, don’t tell. Rather, yours. Ukraine (the state) cannot sell this cruiser to third countries without the AGREEMENT of the Russian Federation. So, as such, there is no fault of Ukrainian politicians, and the fact that the Russian Federation did not redeem it is that you don’t need it, but you still didn’t agree to sell it, or knowing that there was nowhere to save the price except for the Russian Federation, even if the simple one would later fix the repair. If you were more guilty of naivety, you had to disassemble it for metal 10 years ago or tow it to a dump in expecting higher prices for scrap metal. and they spent money on its maintenance.

[demon ada]

Quote: Kars

Well, don’t tell, don’t tell. Rather yours. Ukraine (the state) cannot sell this cruiser to third countries without the AGREEMENT of the Russian Federation. So, as such, there is no fault of Ukrainian politicians

that’s it, they couldn’t sell it, they couldn’t repair it, they don’t have money, everyone is to blame except for the proud Ukrainians.

[Kars]

Quote: demon ada

could not sell banned,

And what’s wrong? Or do you think I lied saying that TKR 1164 Ukraine can not sell without the permission of the Russian Federation?

Quote: demon ada

could not repair, no money

Why repair it? It’s not finished yet, and why finish it if it’s not only not needed for the Ukrainian Armed Forces (especially since we don’t have any missiles for it), but it’s still expensive to operate.

Quote: demon ada

all guilty except proud Ukrainians.

Well, ring that did not give it to Russia.

[Prapor-527]

And I heard that in Ukraine the submarine is welded to the pier ... so that it would not drown. Breshet?

[ildar335]

Pidvodniy Choven "Zaporizhzhia"

The Ukrainian fleet has the only submarine - Zaporozhye, as ancient as Brezhnev’s eyebrows.

For more than 20 years, it has been under repair and serves three purposes: to justify the existence of twenty admirals at the headquarters of the Ukrainian Navy, regularly to cut budget funds allocated for repairs and to maintain healthy naval humor.

The first look at the submarine confirms that it was she who inspired Hollywood directors to shoot the comedy “Raise the Periscope”, in which Jung asks: “Sir, how does our vessel stay afloat?”, And the captain replies: “This is thanks to a huge pile tightly stuck g ... for gulls, son. "

When the boat was lifted for the next endless repair to the dock of the 13th (good figure) shipyard in Sevastopol, its buoyancy was regulated by a thick layer of cormorant manure above the waterline, and a no less thick layer of mussels, shells and algae below the waterline.

To the mother’s alarming letter, crying sleepless nights about the fate of the submariner’s son, the sailor called up to serve in the Navy wrote: “Mommy, don’t worry about me. The boat is firmly welded with rails to the pier. Rails are reliable, Soviet. And the pier was still being built by Admiral Nakhimov. There are no batteries on the boat, so the power line is connected to it. Until the end of my service, she will definitely not budge. ”

In 2005, the chiefs arrived at the 35th anniversary of the submarine - a delegation of the Zaporizhzhya Regional Council. Chefs brought Khortitsa vodka with them in souvenir three-liter bottles, officers put up three-liter cans with pickles and other unpretentious snacks. Toasts in honor of the valiant submarine officers and their bosses were on the rise. When less than half was left in the last bottle, the red-crown deputy chairman of the Zaporizhzhya regional council stood up and began to proclaim a toast-apotheosis: “Only one name! - submarine "Zaporozhye! - terrify enemies! But when will they buy more batteries ... "

Homeric laughter did not allow him to finish his speech.

[ildar335]

And what, by the way, is the Naval Forces of Ukraine, which is preparing to become, according to the decree of Yushchenko, a naval power? A missile boat, a large landing ship, a corvette (in the USSR, a small anti-submarine ship), a minesweeper (not on the move), two or three old small boats. There is also the Slavutich control ship, which is quite modern, although no one understands what it can control. As well as the pride of the fleet and its flagship “Getman Sagaidachny” (at one time a patrol border guard ship). Everything else stands motionless against the wall or cut “into needles”.

There is, of course, the only Zaporozhye submarine (built in the 70s of the last century). But what to do with it, no one knows. At one time, they bought batteries for her in Greece (they refused to buy from Russia, which offered them half the price). The batteries turned out to have the wrong terminals. Submarine quickly and stubbornly rusts. But this fleet is controlled by as many as 13 non-downland admirals.

The Russian fleet from the Crimea, of course, will leave. That's just a little hard to believe that it will be replaced by Ukrainian. No matter how many decrees Viktor Yushchenko signs. But NATO frigates will come here after 2017. There is no doubt about it.

[ildar335]

what are they doing?
really eyes hurts?!?!?!?

[Prapor-527]

A cyberattack of the special submarine fleet of Ukraine was conducted against you

[Akim]

Quote: ildar335

The Russian fleet from the Crimea, of course, will leave. That's just a little hard to believe that it will be replaced by Ukrainian. No matter how many decrees Viktor Yushchenko signs. But NATO frigates will come here after 2017. There is no doubt

There will not be a large fleet in Ukraine. He has nothing to do with it. And the Russian fleet is in Sevastopol only for political reasons. There is no combat effectiveness from him. Only Georgia to drive. The Mediterranean squadron was collected from all 4 fleets. So look for a log in your eye.

[ildar335]

http://warfiles.ru/show-39966-silneyshie-armii-mira.html
let there be such an answer

[Akim]

Quote: ildar335

let there be such an answer

The only thing that saves Russia is, thank God, it has a huge nuclear potential. As for the fleets, ships become obsolete. This was seen this summer in Sino-Russian exercises.

[ildar335]

Submarine in the steppes of Ukraine
The National Security and Defense Council (NSDC) of Ukraine instructed the government to prepare a bill on the termination in 2017 of international treaties on the stay of the Russian Black Sea Fleet in Ukraine.
Kiev in April handed over to Moscow a memorandum on the withdrawal of military units of the Black Sea Fleet from the places of its temporary deployment on the territory of the Ukrainian state until May 28, 2017. Now the National Security and Defense Council has instructed the Cabinet of Ministers to conduct a comprehensive review of the consequences of a temporary stay of the Russian Black Sea Fleet in Ukraine. It has two months. It is curious that the decision of the National Security and Defense Council, the text of which was enacted by decree of President Viktor Yushchenko (yesterday information about this appeared on the site of the head of state) is called very pompously - "On measures to ensure Ukraine as a maritime state."

In Kiev, it is believed that by May 28, 2017 the Black Sea Fleet should be completely withdrawn from the Crimea. The Russian side, however, has a different position. Russia would like to prolong the agreement. As you know, on April 1, State Duma deputies recommended that the executive branch renew the Friendship and Partnership Agreement with Ukraine only subject to the simultaneous and extraordinary extension of the Russian-Ukrainian agreement on the status and conditions of the Russian Black Sea Fleet in Ukraine for the next 20 years on the same conditions.

According to the agreement concluded between Russia and Ukraine, one of the parties must send a notice of termination of the agreement one year before its end. That is, in 2016. So the mentioned order of Viktor Yushchenko is more declarative in nature to confirm Ukraine’s indirect intention to join NATO.

As for the statement about Ukraine as a “maritime state”, besides irony, it can cause little. The Black Sea Fleet, for example, includes more than 200 units, including both large ships (missile cruisers, large anti-submarine and patrol ships), and small (missile and torpedo boats, minesweepers, etc.). Not to mention the unique "killer aircraft carriers" - hovercraft, which have no analogues in the world. And although there are not so many new ships at the Black Sea Fleet, they are able to fulfill the tasks assigned to the fleet.

[Prapor-527]

Know the adversaries did not lie ... THANKS for the answer! and ++

[Kars]

Quote: Prapor-527

Know the adversaries did not lie ... THANKS for the answer! and ++

but to search it yourself was weak? found where to ask. repaired the submarine - it goes into the sea. even plunges, and do not believe it pops up.

[Prapor-527]

Frankly glad ... that pops up.

[ildar335]

June 12, 2012 the submarine went on a day at sea to test diesel engines at full and full speed. In addition, the operation of electric motors and the battery at full speed of the submarine, the work of its sonar station, were checked. [17] From July 18 to July 20, 2012 immersion tests of the boat were made [18]. On August 3, 2012, the boat successfully dived to the periscope depth (14 meters), carried out hanging and trim, and worked out movement in the underwater position

[edge]

Quote: Kars

Well, ring that did not give it to Russia

repaid for debts ........

[Kars]

Quote: hert

repaid for debts ........

But Ukraine didn’t give back any debts of the Russian Federation? And why not give back the equivalent of 400-500 mil dollars.

[Nuar]

Damn, Kars, well, watch out, please, for spelling. It seems that the eight-year-old dybil wrote.

Pe Se. I'm sorry.

[Kars]

Quote: Nuar

Damn, Kars, well, look, please, for spelling

only for a fee.

[understudy]

No matter how he drowned while someone was bargaining for a penny. We spend more on holiday fireworks and other summits. And the ship is beautiful, the "stuffing" will be changed and for another 30 years the eyes will delight and irritate amers. And this is good!

[washi]

Cheaper to build new. Completion and modernization will cost dearly, even if they give it to us for free

[Zhenya]

In the current state of affairs and at current capacities, a new one will be developed and built in 15 years, and this ship can be put into operation in 3-4 years and it will sail for 10-15 years, just those ships that will begin to design will replace it and build now. He is needed, if not sad.

[roial]

You will tell the Indians who decided to modernize - and not build a new aircraft carrier.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: roial

You will tell the Indians who decided to modernize - and not build a new aircraft carrier.

The Hindus knew all this very well. But they have a different situation - sees the eye, but the tooth is numb.
In 2004, the Indians conclude an agreement for the "Gorshkov" and in 2006 they lay down their own aircraft carrier. If the Indians could build aircraft carriers themselves and were sure that they would succeed with the Vikrant, Gorshkov would not have fallen sideways. And it so happened that the sheep are well fed and the wolves are safe - not "Vikrant", but "Vikramaditya".

[roial]

To modernize - not to build. If Russia gives a NORMAL price, then the cruiser will be sold and completed for free.
True, at our pace it will be modernized for a couple of years, but it is faster and cheaper than building from scratch.
Install instead of "Basalt" - "Caliber" or "Onyx" and for the Baltic or Black Sea, enough for the head.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: roial

To modernize - not to build. If Russia gives a NORMAL price, the cruiser will be sold and completed for free

There is no one to finish building if you are about Ukraine.

[leon-iv]

There is no one to finish building if you are about Ukraine.
All suitable specialists have long been working in our and bourgeois shipyards.

[Akim]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

No one to finish building

Do you know where from?

[seller trucks]

Quote: Akim

Do you know where from?

Akim, Andrey is right, in Ukraine, apart from buildings, they cannot build anything, these are essentially semi-finished products, by the way, it was recently discussed, in Nikolaev, out of four shipyards / shipyards "on the pilaf"

[Akim]

Quote: seller trucks

Andrei is right, in Ukraine they can’t build anything except for buildings,

They lie about the factories. But that's okay. Ukraine only supplies power to Indian frigates. Part of the navigation equipment (especially where there are lasers) for the Russian frigate was developed in Izum. The same poor Varyag runs on Ukrainian boilers. The Dutch order ships here. In Kherson, tankers are being built for Russia, etc. It's just that if you want to see one negative, then "medicine" is powerless.

[anton 42]

Do not think anything superfluous, but for example, in Kerch, in the Gulf, only buildings are being built.

[Corsair]

Quote: seller trucks

Akim, Andrey is right, in Ukraine, apart from buildings, they cannot build anything, these are essentially semi-finished products, by the way, it was recently discussed, in Nikolaev, out of four shipyards / shipyards "on the pilaf"

And at one time (before the revolution) in Nikolaev there was a syndicate of factories and shipyards of the Naval company, about which spiteful critics said: "Naval is from the word" pile "", meaning the desire (and opportunity!) To take on the obligation to build complete ships equipped with EVERYTHING from Naval, including the ship's grand piano in the wardroom

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Akim

Do you know where from?

So find out how many people work in Nikolaev and where - and you will know

[seller trucks]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

So find out how many people work in Nikolaev and where - and you will know

We are the only ones who are building complete ships in Ukraine today, - Fedin, General Director of PJSC "Kherson Shipyard"
http://www.maritimebusinessnews.com.ua/news/shipbuilding/2013/02/07/20080.html

and this taking into account the fact that Ukraine registered about 50 shipbuilding enterprises

[Akim]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

So find out how many people work in Nikolaev

It works a little. But shipbuilding is not limited to Nikolayev. Although recently (a couple of months ago, 61 communards handed over a vessel to the Dutch there, and ChSZ launched a tugboat.

[seller trucks]

my repost:

The economic court of the Nikolaev area began bankruptcy of the shipyard "Meridian"

http://novosti.mk.ua/news/business/2010/10/07/4935.html

Workers of the liquidated Nikolaev shipyard "Meridian" paid off wage arrears of 15 on January 2013 of the year

http://www.niknews.mk.ua/2013/01/15/rabotnikam-likvidirovannoj-nikolaevskoj-verf

i-meridian-taki-pogasili-dolgi-po-zarplate /

for more details, please, for example, I gave information on shipyards, here is information about the shipyard "Ocean" (Nikolaev), incidentally, they are again to blame http://news.pn/ru/criminal/49746

http://topwar.ru/33715-ukrainskie-voennye-rassekretili-vneshniy-vid-pervogo-otec
hestvennogo-korveta.html # comment-id-1525647

[Akim]

Quote: seller trucks

for more details, please, I for example, Old Shipbuilding yards

At the Yuzhny Sevastopol plant, a ferry was handed over, at Feodosiysk, boats for border guards were being built and a ship was being built for them. The Dutch want to redeem "Ocean". Everyone is building a little something. Certainly not the same scale as before, but not complete F ...

[seller trucks]

Quote: Akim

"South Sevastopol"

it turns out to be small, it is easier for enterprises to stay afloat, here are the five largest, the US is not even in the top ten:
Shipbuilding Plant Liman OJSC (Nikolaev)
SE “Shipbuilding Plant named after 61 Communard "(Nikolaev)
OJSC "Shipbuilding Plant" Ocean "(Nikolaev)
JSC "Plant" Leninskaya Kuznitsa "(Kiev)
JSC "Sevastopol Marine Plant" (Sevastopol)

[Akim]

Quote: seller trucks

JSC "Plant" Leninskaya Kuznitsa "(Kiev)

Lenin Forge now makes river armored boats
And Sevastopol some kind of fire boat ... I don’t hear anything about the order of floating cranes.
If the plant has money for the site - it means he has not died.

[Egoza]

Quote: Akim

but not complete F ...

Yes, we have everywhere like that ... not yet complete F, but we get out

[Akim]

Quote: Egoza

.not yet full F, but get out

Lena, have you ever been to such factories / plants? In Soviet times, I saw such signs there. And this is absolutely not related to their products. These are special stores.

[PSih2097]

Quote: roial

Install instead of "Basalt" - "Caliber" or "Onyx

what kind of "Basalt", there the P-1000 "Vulcan" should have been ...

[major071]

While they will decide and agree - the ship will finally rot and there will be nothing to upgrade.
It seems that there was already an article on this topic, supposedly ours want to buy it at the price of scrap metal.

[Mhpv]

As the saying goes, "There would be bones, but the meat will grow."
The Americans are not embarrassed to upgrade their obsolete ships, extending their service life and making them keep up with the newly adopted, which prevents us from doing the same.

[Fin]

Quote: mhpv

The Americans are not embarrassed to upgrade their obsolete ships, extending their service life and making them keep up with the newly adopted, which prevents us from doing the same.

Modernize ships on the basis of which the next generation has been made. And modernization is in weapons and electronics. And here is a dead end branch.
If not, let the experts correct.

[Nitup]

Almost five years have passed since the moment of filming; it still rusted there. In general, you need to look directly at the condition of the ship and evaluate. If the case has not undergone severe corrosion, then you need to take and finish building.

[Coward]

Nikolaev stands on the rivers, and not on the sea. The water is fresh. For cases of low alloy steel grades A, B, it is not very aggressive. I was at ChSZ in 2010, I looked at the BATM hulls in very good condition, although they were lowered into the water in the early 90s and covered only with soil.

[bistrov.]

Of course, Ukraine itself cannot finish building this powerful cruiser. And he is not needed by a fourth-rate country with servile habits. Her level is patrol ships and boats. Therefore, there are only two options: to sell to someone, or to cut it into scrap metal. To cut it into scrap metal, this will incur additional costs as a result of losses. Selling "to someone" will not work either, but only to Russia. The question, as I understand it, is an acceptable price on both sides. And Russia should buy this ship, modernize it, and at the same time develop a modern modernization project in order to then modernize cruisers of the same type. Stop standing at the quay walls. The Russian fleet must sail in the world's oceans, arousing legitimate respect in some, while others have the same fear.

[Russ69]

Russian Defense Ministry, promised before the end of the year, to make a final verdict on the cruiser. Not long left, I hope to find out a positive result soon.

[cdrt]

Would buy. A good ship, it is much cheaper to finish it than to return Kirov to service.
And he could walk the seas more time than Kirov.
Glory in general, in my opinion, the most beautiful of our ships. It would be 4pcs. On average, one in repair, three in service, and three KUG based on them, i.e. in the Mediterranean there could always be a KUG with the Kyrgyz Republic at the head.

[Billy Bones]

What for? In Severomorsk, there are three Orlans at the berths. You don't even need to buy them, just take them and upgrade them. Especially. judging by the latest publications, there are good options for their modernization.

[1712]

By the way, news appeared on the Internet that the Project 1164 missile cruiser (formerly "Ukraine"), which is located at the shipyard of the 61st Kommunar shipyard in Nikolaev, will be completed there by the end of the year and offered to Russia for 1 billion rubles, FINANCE reports. UA.

By the end of the year, the Ukrainian cruiser will be completed in the interests of the Russian Navy. According to the representative of the military-industrial complex, the ship’s readiness is slightly lower than declared by Ukrainian shipbuilders. It is also noted that today the Russian shipbuilding program, despite the well-known problems, is being implemented quite consistently.

The missile cruiser "Ukraine" (until 1998 - "Admiral of the Fleet Lobov") was laid down for the USSR Navy at the Nikolaev Shipyard named after 61 Communards in 1984 and was supposed to become the fourth ship of Project 1164 ("Atlant"). In 1990, the cruiser was launched, in 1996 its completion was suspended due to lack of funding. For the maintenance of the cruiser, more than 6 million hryvnia (25 million rubles) are allocated annually from the budget of Ukraine. According to the plant's assessment, the ship's readiness is at 95%

[Kavtorang]

Quote: Marrying

In general, the quality of the ship is disgusting, it needs to stand at the shipyard for 3-4 years to bring to mind

Are you an optimist Specially scattered in different fleets:
RRC "Moscow" - has been under repair for 9 years, the Chernomorites will tell about the quality of the repair, it made a very depressing impression on me when I visited.
BOD "Vice-Admiral Kulakov" - 19 years spent in repair , died on the first real BS.
EM "Burny" has been under repair for 8 years, the power plant is just about to start, there is no end in sight of the eternal repair.
SSGN K-132 "Irkutsk" - decommissioned from the Navy in 1997, in permanent repair, included in GOZ-2013, the expected return to the Navy - no earlier than 2016.

[Echo]

Damn, why waste time on trifles? You just need to eliminate the project Yukrain (it is Urkaina, it is Ucraniya, it is VGN - Temporary Geographic Misunderstanding). Svidomo for Zbruch, and Little Russia, Novorossia and Crimea - back to Russia. Then the Naval Forces Uk will automatically cease to exist, and it will be possible to throw out all stripes of over-oaths and traitors like Lupakov (in our country they don't call him anything other than "Fool") and Shulga to be thrown out without rank and pension. Or even prosecuted for high treason. Shipyards in Nikolaev can be restored - the Motherland needs nuclear aircraft carriers. The Ukrainian naval raft and naval kite are either brought to mind, or stupidly scrapped, because nothing is left there. Ukromoryachkov are either in line with the Russians, or home if they break.

So. The only way. Otherwise, the end is for us all.

SEVASTOPOL! CRIMEA! RUSSIA!

[Akim]

Quote: Echo

You just need to liquidate the project Yukrain (it is Urkain, it is also Deletion, it is VGN - Temporary Geographical Misunderstanding

FASCIST!!!

[ildar335]

Echo said the right thing!

[apostol88]

A Ukrainian would write, oh, and howl would rise, but the Russians can, they are the "Chosen" people!

[Akim]

Quote: apostol88

A Ukrainian would write, oh and howl would rise,

Anyone would write such an appealing call - there would be the same reaction. Do you think there are not enough pseudo-patriots in Ukrainian forums? Swearing with them hoarsely. It's like a booze. It is better not to step over the waterline.

[seller trucks]

Quote: Akim

It is better not to step over the waterline.

eh, Akim could not resist (+), said well , can you imagine how you can step over the waterline, I personally do not? this is a type of banter - "waist keys" or "transmission bucket"

[Akim]

Quote: seller trucks

Can you imagine how to cross the waterline?

If you understand the technical term - not really. And in a booze - quite. Well, you can't say: Pour yourself above the waterline. Man doesn’t have it in the physical sense. This is a description of the state ..

[seller trucks]

Quote: Akim

Well, you can’t say: Pour yourself in above the waterline.

that you do not be offended, such phrases just cut my ear, but the phrase "I got it on the waterline" is really present in marine folklore.

[seller trucks]

Quote: apostol88

A Ukrainian would write, oh, and howl would rise, but the Russians can, they are the "Chosen" people!

just don’t, there are plenty of contenders for "chosenness" from a sore head to a healthy one, Russians are in the second hundred: the first are Jews, the second are Americans, the third place was shared by Ukrainians and Kyrgyz, as the oldest on Earth.

[donavi49]

According to the cruiser, it is better to concentrate on new ships, on new and modern projects.

Trouble No. 1:
The modernization project, it must be made unique to the current state of the ship.

Trouble No. 2:
The 61 Komunar plant, there are already fewer 1000 people working there, and most of the workshop equipment was scrapped / most of the plant is leased from private owners. For completion we will have to sponsor the plant for a while.

Trouble No. 3:
The main complex. The missiles P-500 and P-1000 we have just three cruisers. To be enough, we reduced the firing range to 1 per year (from 3). That is, there is no corny missile for the fourth cruiser (they are not produced). It is difficult to upgrade, the architecture is old and in fact the ship itself was created around Basalt - if you put 1 in 1 Onyxes, then according to the capabilities the cruiser will = frigate 22350. If you cut off the launchers and set something else, then it is another that you need to develop and practice the launches. Available UKKS not put there.

Trouble No. 4:
Spraying forces and means. Now there is a very promising modernization of the Eagles - they are launching it. There is a limited option for the modernization of Atlantes - it is carried out on Ustinov, then on Moscow and Varyag. There is a shipbuilding program with frigates 11356 and 22350 (the latter, for example, has 16 missiles in the current conditions =, but due to loading flexibility even surpassing the Cruiser volley. Yes, the range is less, but 350 is enough for everyone today, the command center for the maximum range of Vulkans was still questionable USSR, and point on the ground 22350 can work perfectly, unlike the cruiser). There are works on a promising destroyer.

[Kavtorang]

Quote: donavi49

The P-500 and P-1000 missiles we have just three cruisers. To be enough, they reduced the firing range to 1 per year (from 3). That is, there is no corny missile for the fourth cruiser (they are not produced).

More precisely, they (GK firing) are simply not carried out annually in every fleet that has Project 1164 as part of the RKR. The moronic practice of sending where we will shoot is in action.
So what "Urya-ya-ya-ya" is shouting over here with aspiration - two onboard volleys of cruisers (8 in each), in reality no one knows and no one (including artillerymen) even knows how it will look at all.

[Volkhov]

It's just that M and V joined the Virtual Fleet and U is needed as a pavilion for filming, or the intellect of the audience must also be lowered (so that they don't say “I don’t believe” according to Stanislavsky), now 2 strategic approaches are fighting - to pretend or to be a fool, and the Ukrainians have raised the price just in case, like a pike that hunts in the net ...
It seems that foolishness is winning, like an immense substance, with which we congratulate Russia - from victory to victory, not others so themselves - everything will come down for Venus, they need a place.

[Coward]

I would add.
It is necessary to import and install equipment that is classified as "Secret". And the factory and workers most likely do not have a permit.

[Echo]

Quote: Akim

FASCIST!!!

Nah, not a fascist, but a supporter of the triumph of historical justice. I am Russian, my city is Sevastopol, and this is Russia, and not some kind of Ukraine, which is a Russophobic project of the West. And Kiev, you know, is the mother of RUSSIAN cities, not Ukrainian ones. The fact that so many "former Russians" are now divorced in Ukraine is a real misfortune that must be dealt with.

And the fact that I have to live in my hometown with shameful ksiva with a fork does not suit me. So down with the nobility.

[Akim]

Quote: Echo

The fact that so many "former Russians" are now divorced in Ukraine is a real misfortune,

Question. What does it mean?

[Technocrat]

Echo, in your nickname one letter is not enough, er, it will be more correct

[a boat]

Quote: Orik

The price of scrap metal is the normal price since without the main caliber and the C300, it costs nothing like a ship; over the years it spent more on its maintenance. I’ll not eat it myself, so I’m biting it. Let rot, avaricious pays twice.

well, they won’t give him up for heartfelt ATP! well, if some pulled out clubs from w @ py and started financing normally in the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Ukraine, because a poor warrior and cop cost a lot to society, so to speak, money can be eaten about this ship, but what's the use of it ? Let it be built (and for people of workplaces) even if it protects suvirinitet

[a boat]

Quote: Orik

The price of scrap metal is the normal price since without the main caliber and the C300, it costs nothing like a ship; over the years it spent more on its maintenance. I’ll not eat it myself, so I’m biting it. Let rot, avaricious pays twice.

well, they won’t give him up for heartfelt ATP! well, if some pulled out clubs from w @ py and started financing normally in the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Ukraine, because a poor warrior and cop cost a lot to society, so to speak, money can be eaten about this ship, but what's the use of it ? Let it be built (and for people of workplaces) even if it protects suvirinitet

[MG42]

Very symbolic, Ukraine is selling <Ukraine> ..
It is necessary to sell since such a ship does not fit with its military doctrine to Ukraine, but it is necessary to finish building weapons that are not produced in Ukraine .. if only the Chinese did not fuss again, otherwise they had already leased a bunch of fertile lands in Ukraine ..
The photo, of course, is in the subject of shitty quality, has the author really taken a soap dish?

[Kavtorang]

"... Sorry for the quality, the photo was taken with a phone with a 2 megapixel camera."
Marshal is not a reader?

[MG42]

When there are a lot of photos in the subject, not everything immediately opens, something slows down, you probably have to switch to another unlimited with a higher speed .., and I'm sorry I didn't see >> now I see about a phone with a 2 megapixel camera ..

[Akim]

Quote: MG42

otherwise they have already rented a bunch of fertile lands in Ukraine ..

Do not tell a lie. There is no such information, and the media sucked it almost with a finger.

[MG42]

Quote: Akim

Do not tell a lie. No such information

Akim, do you work in the government if you say that there is not enough information in the media and not only Ukrainian about the interests of China in agricultural Ukraine, there is no smoke without fire?
Judging by how much time you spend on the Internet you do not work there..

A memorandum on the establishment of a Sino-Ukrainian fund for investing in international cooperation projects was signed in Hong Kong. The new structure plans to attract up to $ 6 billion for the development of agriculture in Ukraine, of which 600 million - next year.

"Our goal is to create a Fund that will contribute to the accumulation of financial resources and the promotion of projects and programs for the development of agriculture in Ukraine, for the expansion of Chinese-Ukrainian trade in the field of agricultural products. The Fund plans to attract up to $ 2013 million in 600 for selected projects and gradually increase the amount to 6 billion, "said Feng Chi Kin, deputy chairman of the board of the recently created Chinese-Ukrainian association for the implementation of international projects, reports IA" Kazakh-Zerno ".

http://newsland.com/news/detail/id/1100499/

[Akim]

Quote: MG42

about the interests of China in agricultural Ukraine, smoke without fire does not happen?

It is. They want and eagerly want. Only a memorandum is not an agreement. All this is still being studied and no one has said YES, because they know how the Chinese are barbarously using foreign land.

[MG42]

China plans to lease about 3 million hectares of farmland for a period of 50 years in Ukraine. At the first stage, the Chinese state-owned company Xinjiang Production and Construction leases 100 thousand hectares from the Ukrainian agricultural holding KSG Agro.

In a few years, Ukraine will become the largest grain supplier in China.
According to the South China Morning Post, Ukraine will become the largest foreign food producer for the PRC in a few years. In 2009, China used about 2 million hectares of foreign farmland to grow agricultural products.

The first Chinese farms will appear in the Dnipropetrovsk region, then in the Kherson region and in the Crimea. Tenants plan to build several irrigation systems and irrigate the occupied territories. The volume of initial investments is estimated at $ 2,6 billion.

http://www.vestifinance.ru/articles/32984

And it is also sucked from the finger and the source is left?

China wants to rent Ukrainian agricultural land

[seller trucks]

Quote: Akim

Do not tell a lie. There is no such information, and the media sucked it almost with a finger.

Land in Ukraine as a commodity - V. Yanukovych
Land in Ukraine should become a commodity - Yanukovych

http://www.ukr.net/news/zemlja_v_ukraine_dolzhna_stat_tovarom_janukovich-2384628
0-1.html

[Akim]

Quote: seller trucks

Land in Ukraine should become a commodity - Yanukovych

Okay, what’s different in Russia? Yes, you have long been legalized the purchase of agricultural land.

[seller trucks]

Quote: Akim

Okay, what’s different in Russia? Yes, you have long been legalized the purchase of agricultural land.

Yanukovych, does what the Germans could not do in 1941, gives fertile lands to foreigners, but we don’t have this

[Akim]

Quote: seller trucks

gives foreigners fertile land

Do not carry nonsense? To whom did he give? And the sale of land to foreigners will be prohibited.

[Misantrop]

Quote: Akim

And the sale of land to foreigners will be prohibited.

And when will it be? Kunitsyn for the year of his tenure as mayor of Sevastopol removed from circulation and sold in bulk to the British and Cypriot private owners the Baydar Valley WHOLESALE (more than 1000 hectares of fertile land). SBU is still trying to get back at least a little bit. And did not bear any responsibility for it. Google it online

[MG42]

Quote: Akim

And the sale of land to foreigners will be prohibited

So the Chinese took for 50 years for rent, then extended, but we obviously will not see it already .. in Ukraine, life expectancy is not the greatest however ..
Help UNIAN:

According to media reports, in 66, Ukraine occupied 2006th place in terms of life expectancy (113 years). So, the average life expectancy in Ukraine for women is 73,5 years, for men - 67 years.

[Akim]

Quote: MG42

So the Chinese leased for 50 years, then extended,

I ask again. Is this information verified? Or at the land level of Gaddafi.

[MG42]

Quote: Akim

Is this information verified?

You want the text of the household. the contracts were hung on the net >> well, that's naive ..
Especially no one has denied the news, which means silence = sign of consent ..
What are your sources of Kim that is not so?

[Akim]

Quote: MG42

Especially no one has denied the news, which means silence = sign of consent ..

There was an interview on "1 Business", where they said that this information was not accurate.

[MG42]

Quote: Akim

There was an interview on "1 Business", where they said that this information was not accurate.

Not accurate what exactly? Cool source , the main thing is that no one will check, I did not watch TV that channel at that time..

[Akim]

Quote: MG42

Cool source

I am not saying that this is 100% information. But the conversation went on for half an hour with a woman from the cabinet. Most likely the interview is on their website. So while more clear evidence appears, then you can criticize. Everyone knows that the Chinese feed the earth with fertilizers, and therefore do not rush to give it to them.

[MG42]

Quote: Akim

But the conversation went on for half an hour with a woman from the cabinet.

And who is this woman? FULL NAME..

Minister of Agrarian Policy and Food of Ukraine Mykola Prysyazhnyuk

[Akim]

Quote: MG42

And who is this woman? Full name

Do you think I remember? This is one of the sixth deputies.

[MG42]

Quote: Akim

Do you think I remember? This is one of the sixth deputies.

Then back to your quote Kim, she is here by the way very ..

Quote: Akim

Don't tell a lie. No such information

[Akim]

Quote: MG42

Then back to your quote Kim, she is here by the way very

Here I am about that. There will be more reliable sources. then we say YES or NO. Not rumors.

[MG42]

I confirmed these rumors with quotes from you a solid tro-lo-lo, so to speak it was written on the fence, only the janitor erased ..

[MG42]

This is how this hero has >>

[Kavtorang]

Quote: MG42

When there is a lot of photos in the subject, not everything opens immediately, something slows down, you probably have to switch to another unlimited with a higher speed.

Not necessary. Pour something sharp, national into the bruises of the provider
In Vladivostok, on the telephone "noodles" (provider - Rostelecom), any material on the site is opened, viewed and, if necessary, downloaded without comment. On the Wi-Fi set-top box of the same provider, on another apartment - even faster.

[MG42]

Quote: Kavtorang

about Vladivostok, on the telephone "noodles" (provider - Rostelecom) any material on the site opens

I have a website even sometimes for several. minutes doesn’t open, not that articles especially at night, it happens .. well, with Vladivostok the big time difference is how much it is at 23 PM? we have 13-00, and when a lot of comments on the page is problematic sometimes reply to comment only from below comment using quotes .. I don’t know why it depends .. A lot of advertising is loaded
Ukrainian sites open bullet ..

[Kavtorang]

21 hours 22 minutes October 07th.

[MG42]

And the date on the hell? Now you have the 8th of October already .. we have the 7th

[Echo]

Quote: Akim

Question. What does it mean?

These are people for whom Russian is their native language, and who, at the same time, are struggling to speak the devil's shit, are struck by a severe form of schizophrenia called "independence" and "nezalezhnost" they call Russia "rashka", Russians (that is, themselves) " Mongol-katsapami ", they throw a ridge to the psychopathic sadist Bandera and his slut Shukhevych, like crazy Kuchma they believe that" Ukraine is not Russia "(although in some ways this Kuchma is right - though Ukraine starts west of Zbruch - there really is not Russia) and scream with all their might about "Ukraine's European civilizational choice." These people are the former Russians. Disgusting svidomye ghouls who only an aspen stake in the back will help.

[Akim]

Quote: Echo

These are people for whom the Russian language is native,

I have native Russian, but I am not Russian by nationality. And to neglect other nations and languages ​​is moral ugliness. In addition to the native and state, I know three more languages, which allows you to communicate with other peoples. And your limitation can be called a childhood illness - autism.

[common man]

Quote: egor 1712

According to the plant, the ship’s readiness is at 95%

Watching how to evaluate this very readiness. Judging by the photo, the readiness is really high. Even the furniture is installed. But! The entire base of the cruiser is 80s. Another analog. If you finish building as is, it’s like to lower the battleship Potemkin according to the original design into the Great Patriotic War. And he (the cruiser) still has to walk about 15 years. The elemental base must be unambiguously set a new, digital one. And for this, dismantle the old one. And these are thousands of devices. Everything needs to be changed. Navigation, machine control, weapon control, radar, you will not list everything. The weapons systems themselves have stepped far forward over the years. How much will it all cost? In my opinion, the main value of this cruiser in its new building, well, in cars (maybe). To build a new one of the same displacement, even if we find the slipway, we will be 5-8 years old. And this can be completed afloat. Therefore, you need to buy it at the price of the case. But no, so order in the same France a building with machines according to your own designs, and mount all systems at home. It will be cheaper, faster, and better.

[vkrav]

All this, of course, is very romantic, let the author tell directly and honestly how often the ventilation and dehumidification systems are switched on on this vessel? A man from this plant (not a photographer!) Said that the "demonstration zone" was somehow dried and ventilated, and the lower the decks and the engine room - only in the summer, in the heat, they turn on the ventilation for a short time to dry it ... Everything is flooded with condensate and rotting for a long time ... Because electricity is needed too much, and the plant has long been bankrupt and there is room to steal money ... In short , hell knows who to believe ...

[Kavtorang]

Quote: seller trucks

Can you imagine how you can step over the waterline, I personally do not? this is a type of banter - "waist keys" or "transmission bucket"

You can also sharpen the "paws" of the anchor with a file

[Altona]

Pictures in general are depressing ... Equipment is already such antiques, it smelled like an era, you can shoot films about the pre-perestroika period ... The commission needs to be assembled, an approximate assessment of the hull and chassis, an estimate, which will result in the modernization of weapons and equipment, is there any reserve whatsoever for the modernization and homologation of the ship ... But to my taste, if it’s easier to build a new one, it’s better to have a new one ... Everything is already archaic ...

[Kars]

Quote: Altona

. Then everything is archaic already.

http://www.cruiser-moskva.info/

[Kavtorang]

Quote: Altona

. The equipment is already such antiques, it smelled like an era, you can shoot films about the pre-perestroika period ...

Nothing, scores are more reliable than a computer.

Quote: Altona

The commission must be assembled,

This is easy with us.

Quote: Altona

make an approximate assessment of the hull and chassis, estimate what the modernization of armaments and equipment will result in, e

Salvage (in certain quantities) defeats any evil.

Quote: Altona

if it’s easier to build a new one, then a new one is better ...

This is not our method - the rollback of the cut is not the same.
PS: The above comments are a consequence of the locally sad mood of a particular person.

[Walking]

My opinion is not worth buying it is outdated already and a long downtime is also a minus and how much more money will be needed for modernization. IMHO

[garik77]

After watching the impression is depressing. Old rusty trough. If you buy, then at the price of scrap metal. All electronics are completely under replacement, fire control systems, radars, etc. are hopelessly outdated. If the case is well welded and not rusted, then in this situation it will still be possible to make something modern out of it.
PS: Do not forget about the fact that for sure non-ferrous metals were slowly frying from the ship ...

[malikszh]

I think it’s not worth buying from the photo it can be seen that the weight is rust, out of date let them sell on metal!

[pensioner]

The oscilloscopes are impressive! Thing!! Must take! Throw everything from there of course ... But if it is impossible, then the Ukrainian submarine fleet will replenish with another vessel. This missile cruiser will sink. It’ll sink a little more ... (Yeah ... I didn’t miss the filter .. In general: if someone calls me that term, then I’ll challenge me to a duel! Well, I’ll shoot it in stealth ... ) I will!

[Marconi41]

I would like to see the lower compartments. GEM, etc. But CTA devices were not impressed, and KIV (ship wind meter), too.

[xomaNN]

Taking into account the fact that the metal structures were not used at sea, and many general ship systems are quite suitable in the current conditions. Of course, replace the armament and modify it according to the Sistership project and on the Northern Fleet! And so it will sink in a few years right at the wall.

[Aibolit64]

Nafig-nafig. Let Ukraine remain. They will run away to Israel or America on it. All will drown.

[Ghjynjyjoiiyr]

11 shot from above is a COMPUTER !!! Oval screen, keyboard ???

[Tatyana Kolyaseva]

The cruiser "Admiral Lobov" will go to Russia for the debts of the former. Ukraine will be repaired and will become part of the Black Sea Fleet.