Military Review

J-31 Chinese Junk is for export only.

89
J-31 Chinese Junk is for export only.

The newest Chinese fighter J-31 receives more criticism than enthusiastic reviews from experts, and recently the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) of China said that this aircraft is intended only for export, reports October October FoxNews.com.


The J-31 was probably designed as the next generation fighter for Chinese aircraft carriers and should have been on a par with the F-35 Lightning II. But now, it seems, China, which has only one aircraft carrier, will offer these planes to Air Forces of second-tier countries, such as Brazil, Pakistan and some countries of the Middle East.

"Probably, the fighter was not originally created for export, but it seems that it turned out that it is not good enough," said Stephen Biddle, a political science professor at George Bush University, in an interview with FoxNews.com.

Even the Chinese press criticizes the combat aircraft created in the country, for example, the Sina Military Network claims that the J-15 carrier-based fighter could not take off from an aircraft carrier with "heavy weapons", which could have a negative effect on combat range and strike power.

aviation experts believe that based on limited information about the J-31, we can only claim that it is just a “cheap copy” of the American F-22. “The J-31 is a kind of copy of the most advanced (and problematic) American F-22 fighter. We see the same nose, two-keel vertical plumage and trapezoidal wings along with some stealth features, ”says former Italian Air Force pilot David Cenciotti. But Sensiotti said the J-31 probably doesn't have thrust vector engines that give the fighters superior maneuverability. He suspects that this aircraft was created on the basis of the study of American military aircraft, and not just the design of the F-117, shot down in 1999 by a Serbian anti-aircraft missile, hinting that the Chinese with the help of cyber attacks could get some useful technical drawings for them F-22 and F-35.

But no espionage and copying technology can provide the creation of high-tech aircraft, such as modern American fighters, says Congressman Adam Kinzinger. An Air Force veteran, he still serves as a National Guard Air Force pilot. “America has always produced and produces the best aviation technology in the world. Although China claims the great potential of J-31, I will remain a skeptic until I see evidence, ”he says.

Jane's Defense Weekly Asia Pacific Editor James Hardy believes there is no way to compare J-31 with other fighters, given the secrecy surrounding this aircraft. “There is limited data on J-31, and it is impossible to say whether it is superior or inferior to F-35. How can you evaluate the aircraft, if we do not know anything about the onboard radar, subsystems, avionics, and from what materials it is made. Of course, the forms (silhouette) of the airframe make it look like a fifth-generation fighter, but not knowing what materials it is made of, we cannot say anything about its EPR (effective area of ​​dispersion), ”said the expert.

Hardy adds that the lack of information and the fact that the fighter, bypassing its own air force, turned out to be an export product, can hinder its sales on the world market. “The key question is why the PLA Air Force is not going to put the J-31 into service, and the next question will be: if this plane is not good enough for China, then why should other countries buy it?” Hardy concluded.
Originator:
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/10/01/chinese-junk-latest-fighter-plane-from-people-army-ticketed-for-export/
89 comments
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  1. savarineko
    savarineko 5 October 2013 07: 41 New
    31
    The Chinese urgently need to find those who sell them the F-35, they can’t copy from the photos ...
    1. xetai9977
      xetai9977 5 October 2013 08: 59 New
      24
      I doubt that the Chinese, even having "in their hands" an F-22 or F-35, will be able to recreate them qualitatively.
      1. savarineko
        savarineko 5 October 2013 09: 25 New
        +9
        They won’t be able to now, but their industry is developing well, so in the long run it’s quite possible that they can recreate someone’s or create their own
        1. edge
          edge 5 October 2013 17: 41 New
          +7
          Quote: savarineko
          They won’t be able to, but their industry is developing well

          Do not tell me, metallurgy has never been a skate for the Chinese, and they still have a long way to go to fundamental science: they have only copied consumer goods throughout their history, which they are safely doing now, because they are allowed to.
          1. 31231
            31231 6 October 2013 19: 09 New
            +1
            Badly mistaken. Most mining machinery and tools are now in China. And I will tell you that it is at a very good level. And for good engineering, good metallurgy is needed.
            1. edge
              edge 7 October 2013 02: 33 New
              +1
              Quote: 31231
              Badly mistaken. Most mining machinery and tools are now in China. And I’ll tell you that it is at a very good level

              yeah, then Chinese dump trucks with self-lifting bodies carried 5 elevated pedestrian crossings in Vladivostok, filled several cars with rubble ... and they bought engines for their fighters from us, they couldn’t rip off: although the glider was stolen
      2. user
        user 5 October 2013 11: 59 New
        12
        Guys when the Chinese began in the early 90's to try to try electronics, everyone also laughed.
        1. Botanologist
          Botanologist 5 October 2013 22: 24 New
          +8
          Quote: user
          when the Chinese began to try electronics at the beginning of the 90's, everyone laughed too.


          Just do not forget that the plants for the production of electronics were supplied to them by the USA, France, and Great Britain. And Germany did not stand aside. And this is a little different than creating a plane from scratch.
        2. edge
          edge 7 October 2013 02: 39 New
          0
          cheap working power on foreign equipment, their formula for success ......., otherwise they run from the best life in the wide light of the world.
      3. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 6 October 2013 19: 11 New
        0
        about airplanes, I don’t know, but I’ve inserted a Chinese copy of the Singer sewing machine, an overlock and thermal transfer, so that you need to use all this you need to be a Chinese
      4. Troitsky
        Troitsky 8 October 2013 20: 28 New
        +1
        For this, it is necessary that f35 first come out of the amers themselves as a quality)))
    2. experienced
      experienced 5 October 2013 10: 04 New
      17
      The Chinese know how to conduct disinformation operations and it is possible that this is another ... wink

      Now about sore recourse
      Just got out of the ban for
      You violated the rules of the site, admitted in the comment:
      "and p ... e"in the article GRU Spetsnaz Officer Alexander Musienko: If Chaos Comes.
      You have 1 violations. Site rules

      Before that there were warnings for (I quote Romanov laughing )
      Alexander Romanov (1) RU September 23, 2013 12:31 ↑
      Quote: seasoned
      Knocking it is not in my rules
      Really, don’t make my slippers laugh, more complaints than you probably haven’t received from anyone laughing
      Quote: seasoned
      Well, yes, for the word swingers from Smirnov and 2 duplicating for one comment from you
      which you are not guilty at all. Here they are your six warnings

      1. about the possibility of former political officers to "stall" hi 2013-08-06 06:38:53 Change | Delete
      2. upside down lying 2013-08-31 06:17:21 Change | Delete
      3. "He beat .., Good luck ChumiO 2013-09-07 06:37:48 Change | Delete
      4. nabout this aphid and then put up a warning for the word "get pissed off", Romanov is in the ass ... and Natalia, whom he keeps, let him have ...
      Well, if it got out, then he’s scrubbed, get a lift and wait. What have you convicted me of, illiterate?
      2013-09-09 06:05:26 Change | Delete
      5. Here it’s no longer friendship, but it seems like a meeting of swingers ... 2013-09-09 06:06:29 Change | Delete
      6. I'm just shocked that fame is doing with fagots ... Everyone sees everyone upset ... You talk to a Russian in 69 position. I don’t communicate with you anymore, you don’t indulge in "shitty", I’ll just minus on occasion, and don’t even wait for answers. Communicating with p ... m well, good luck in your personal life ...
      Say thank you to Apollo, who corrected your comments with outright rudeness to visitors to the site!

      In short, I imagine myself as a pillar to which every admin and novels dominates laughing

      How many did not look in violation of the Site Rules does not seem to fit not one of the quotes request
      Pushkin personally censored Pushkin, Smirnov took control of me, it flatters me, but the Tsar was more correct towards Pushkin wink
      1. experienced
        experienced 5 October 2013 11: 19 New
        12
        Quote: seasoned
        Now about sore
        Just got out of the ban for

        Bugaga wassat And who put that minus? belay
        Who did I trample on Faberge products? smile
      2. lelikas
        lelikas 5 October 2013 13: 25 New
        +3

        Perhaps this is a manifestation of feelings;)
      3. honest jew
        honest jew 5 October 2013 13: 54 New
        +4
        "And where are the violations ????. Violations for expressing his honest and truthful opinion about articles that do not relate at all to military topics? Or do you think that Navalny is somehow connected with military topics. If you have something- it does not suit you, then rename the site to "Political Review" or "Problems of Politics and Economics". Therefore, I remind you that the site is called "Voennoye Obozreniye" and I ask you to stick to the military theme, and not stoop to the site of scandals, gossip and rumors! " -Honest Jew


        "You received 2 warnings, the first for anti-religious propaganda, the second for a flood of three one-to-one comments in three threads, the content of the comments does not interest me. I, the VO forum administration, have been notified of your violations." - Appolon

        The same problem with the moderators like you !!! hi
        1. experienced
          experienced 5 October 2013 14: 07 New
          +8
          Quote: Honest Jew
          "You received 2 warnings, the first for anti-religious propaganda, the second for the flood three comments one to one in three branches, the content of the comments does not interest me. I, the VO forum administration, have been notified of your violations. "- Appolon

          Bugaga, this is even cooler than my troubles ... The fact that warnings are issued for anti-religious propaganda on the website "Military Review" is worthy of an anecdote laughing
          Let them rename it to "Muslim (Orthodox, Jewish, Buddhist, sectarian, Catholic, Jehovah's, etc.) review" wassat
          I ask you to stick to military topics, and not to stoop to the site of scandals, gossip and rumors

          Well, here, as it were, on the site sometimes such "yellowness" is published ... request I'm not talking about the articles that the Armenian-Azerbaijani and ukro (censorship) - srachi inflate winked
        2. rolik
          rolik 5 October 2013 14: 52 New
          +4
          Quote: Honest Jew
          Or do you think that Navalny is somehow related to military issues

          Well, let's just say, indirectly connected))) If Navalny and the company come to power then we will definitely not have the army))))) If only we would consider this in this way))))) But rather, McCain will love Vietnam and Russia than this will happen)))))
      4. honest jew
        honest jew 5 October 2013 13: 58 New
        +3
        an honest Jew: "
        “Holmes, tell me why women have pubic hair soft and fluffy, and men have hard and spiky hair?”
        - Do not argue, Watson, suck. "

        "Your vulgar anecdote and not in the subject, I delete without any, but I leave the picture. If there are claims with a complaint to the Admins. All without options." - Apollon !!!

        Circus and only !!! hi
        1. honest jew
          honest jew 5 October 2013 14: 07 New
          +3
          You violated the rules of the site, admitted in the comment:
          "chumps of y" in the article The West wants to destroy the Islamic world ("Yeni Safak", Turkey).
          You have 1 violation. Site rules.


          "The meaning of the word Churban according to Efremova:
          Chump - A tree stump, a short log.
          Cons. like a swear word, which is called a senseless, stupid person.

          The meaning of the word Churban according to Ozhegov:
          Churban - A stump of a log "- an honest Jew !!!

          laughter and tears, but what else to live? hi
          1. experienced
            experienced 5 October 2013 14: 14 New
            +8
            Quote: Honest Jew
            laughter and tears, but what else to live?

            Bugaga, I gave Smirnov (Admin) a quote from the dictionary of Ushakov and Ozhegov

            GET PISSED OFF
            peck, peck, nesov. (colloquial.). Same as peeling.

            It is useless, he considered that the noun formed from this verb (and I wrote the verb) is obscene and is subject to warning wassat
            However, looking at the literacy of some moderators, the imperishable is already becoming a sign: "And who are the judges? ..." lol
            1. honest jew
              honest jew 5 October 2013 14: 28 New
              +6
              You violated the rules of the site, admitted in the comment:
              "Gandon on" in the article Vitali Klitschko disowned the Soviet past ?.
              You have 1 violations.


              On is an important element in various defense mechanisms. It is believed that they were the first people who fought off wild animals, extinguished fire and defended themselves from enemies. The first mention of the gandon (Gan from Lat. Flying and Don from isp. Underground) !!!


              On in Technique:

              Currently rarely used. Previously, it was widely used in gas masks, but is now replaced by a more reliable cyanide powder.

              The first (it is) was created in the Stone Age from the juice of Hevea, the skins of the very first killed raccoon and hay. However, at that time he did not find widespread use of its size and limitations of primitive people.

              He gained a second life after more than 2000000 years. Industrial tycoon Henry Ford and his partner Brack Oblama bought drawings from stone idols from Easter Island and started mass production of gandons.
              1. experienced
                experienced 5 October 2013 14: 35 New
                +7
                Quote: Honest Jew
                You have violated the site’s rules,

                The symbolic phrase that needs to be changed to "you are only to blame for ..." and it is imperative to remove from the Site Rules the phrase "the site administration does not affect the user rating" (as it sounds like that for accuracy, I can not vouch), as the administration does not some members of the forum have already experienced it ... belay
                In order not to be blamed for the flood, I will speak on the news topic. The Chinese will boil this plane and get paid for it, and we will supply our loans, which we then write off ... recourse
          2. alicante11
            alicante11 6 October 2013 16: 03 New
            +4
            "chumps of y" in the article The West wants to destroy the Islamic world ("Yeni Safak", Turkey).


            Don't bend the stick. Calling an Eastern person a "chump" is the same as calling you an "honest woman." For such a name, any Caucasian will write you such a ban on the face, which will not seem like a little.
      5. rolik
        rolik 5 October 2013 14: 48 New
        +8
        Quote: seasoned
        Pushkin personally censored Pushkin, Smirnov took control of me, it flatters me, but the Tsar was more correct towards Pushkin

        Sorry for taftology, but you are not Pushkin, but Smirnov is not the king))))) Therefore, the results are slightly different bully
        1. experienced
          experienced 5 October 2013 14: 54 New
          +4
          Quote: rolik
          Sorry for taftology, but you are not Pushkin, but Smirnov is not the king))))) Therefore, the results are slightly different

          Bugaga, the tramp ate laughing And I remember how you and I have long had a rebellion against the dominance of the moderators, they muddied, though I was under a different nickname then, and I was excited because Tronin, who was then a moderator, pronounced before the forum member the word p ... (non-traditionalist laughing ) laughing
          Of course, I’m not Pushkin, but Smirnov’s website has so much power that the Tsar would only envy wink
          Well, and the plane will be brought up to standard, "childhood sores" are typical for most equipment hi
          1. rolik
            rolik 6 October 2013 00: 42 New
            +2
            Quote: seasoned
            And I remember how you and I have long had a rebellion against the dominance of the modernization of muddy,

            drinks
      6. Nuar
        Nuar 5 October 2013 15: 22 New
        +2
        Quote: seasoned
        but the tsar to Pushkin was more correct
        I misunderstood something. Do you offer Smirnov to crown ?! belay
        1. experienced
          experienced 5 October 2013 15: 26 New
          +4
          Quote: Nuar
          I misunderstood something. Do you offer Smirnov to crown ?!

          I do not mind crowning him, but after that, immediately as Louis 16 (I can get confused with the number repeat ) immediately to the guillotine lol
          1. pensioner
            pensioner 5 October 2013 18: 45 New
            +9
            Eh, Experienced ... And I suffered for calling the Japanese NARROW-EYED !!! But what, are they WIDE or something ??? I would advise administrators (Smirnov, for example) to take a closer look at the faces of the Japanese. You look and see that the NARROW-EYES is not an insult, but a description of what he saw on the VIC ...
            1. Nuar
              Nuar 5 October 2013 21: 50 New
              +3
              Quote: retired
              I would advise administrators (Smirnov, for example) to take a closer look at the faces of the Japanese.

              what however, the Japanese are broad-eyed. Regarding Europeans - their eyes are still smaller, but when compared with Koreans and northern China - it’s a nightmare how wide the eyelids are.

              Try to see for yourself. (It helps especially to try to guess who is who from the photographs from the signing of the peace agreement after the Russo-Japanese War of 1904-05.)
            2. lelikas
              lelikas 6 October 2013 17: 53 New
              +3
              Quote: retired
              Eh, Experienced ... And I suffered for calling the Japanese NARROW-EYED !!! But what, are they WIDE or something ???

              “Comrade officers, I ask you not to call pin, sv“ pin, si, ”they are very offended by this.” (C) Gene. Evtukhovich
              it turns out funny on the site :)
            3. 31231
              31231 6 October 2013 19: 18 New
              +1
              There is an opinion that the Japanese are yellow-faced. But the Chinese are pie-eyed.

              In general, it’s stupid to administer, because in a strange monastery they don’t pray to their god.
          2. michajlo
            michajlo 6 October 2013 00: 07 New
            +3
            Good evening, dear Alexey!

            Yes, you throw angry admins, because they are people too. What to do, sometimes they will do everything according to the Bible and sometimes according to Capital ...
            On the other hand, they, besides the work and the “active knock” on the keyboard, are still responsible for the content and form of the site.
            Indeed, if you look and just compare the style of statements and behavior of members of the forum here and on other sites, then in my opinion the VO site is a cut above!

            After all, to make a cloaca from the patriotic site with the level of the forecourt buffet, a lot of work is not necessary.

            And let me ask you a question: - Why change Nicky here at all? Is it that, after “naughty like a cat on the rug”, so change the larva / larva?

            Here on the site I am attracted by the forum users, frankness and worry about the country that we ourselves allowed to steal from us, and concern and fears about the future of us all, not me, not you!
            Well, the fact that we are all different, and out of 50 members of the forum, one or two look at life and events as I do, so it does not matter, time itself will equalize all our different worldview points!

            I wish you a pleasant weekend, Mikhailo.
          3. rolik
            rolik 6 October 2013 00: 44 New
            +1
            Quote: seasoned
            I don't mind crowning him

            Pin the finger ring and the domes on the back)))))))) Well, I have such an association first thing arises)))) Still, I come from the Arkhangelsk province))))
      7. Des10
        Des10 6 October 2013 19: 49 New
        0
        but the tsar to Pushkin was more correct
        different levels.
    3. RUS96
      RUS96 5 October 2013 13: 31 New
      +1
      Hint that we decided to sell them the 35th?
    4. Joker
      Joker 5 October 2013 19: 02 New
      +5
      Here, before pouring dirt on F-35 and F-22, you first need to make a plane with at least the same x-ki and launch it into a series and buy them not 5 pieces but as Americans 200, then you can leave the caps, but for now except for the Americans, no one has an 5 generation aircraft.
      1. rolik
        rolik 6 October 2013 00: 46 New
        0
        Quote: Joker
        and buy them not 5 pieces

        So enti five pieces, not at all serial. They are, so to speak, stands for working out serial books.
    5. Simon
      Simon 5 October 2013 19: 05 New
      +2
      No .. eh! The Chinese urgently need to find who will buy the J-15 and J-31 from them, otherwise they will remain with their aircraft. laughing
  2. Revolver
    Revolver 5 October 2013 07: 41 New
    +3
    World famous Chinese quality. wassat
    1. Constantine
      Constantine 5 October 2013 10: 59 New
      +8
      Yes, there is still a reason to laugh. wassat For example, I laughed here:
      America has always manufactured and is producing the world's best aircraft.


      wassat
      1. 0255
        0255 5 October 2013 11: 23 New
        +7
        Yes, there is still a reason to laugh. For example, I laughed here:

        America has always manufactured and is producing the world's best aircraft.

        North Koreans and Vietnamese also did not think that American aircraft was the best smile
  3. mirag2
    mirag2 5 October 2013 07: 51 New
    +1
    Yes, this is a clear copy of the F-35. I don’t know how much the TTX corresponds to the original, but apparently the copy of the F-35 is all there.
    1. tomket
      tomket 5 October 2013 09: 22 New
      +8
      if the original flies poorly, then why should the copy be better?)))
      1. yanus
        yanus 5 October 2013 13: 04 New
        +3
        Quote: tomket
        if the original flies poorly, then why should the copy be better?)))

        Well, they could take away the possibility of vertical take-off. This immediately simplifies and facilitates the design. So, it really can in theory fly better))
  4. Sirocco
    Sirocco 5 October 2013 07: 59 New
    +4
    That's when China learns to make a gas turbine engine for its aircraft, then it will be possible to talk about 5th generation Chinese fighters. And so this is balabalism from China, or their media. It is ridiculous to declare the export of an airplane that is not planned to be put into service at home. The funny thing is the fact that only last year this aircraft began to fly. China probably greatly succeeded in the aircraft industry, since they are trying to sell the aircraft without test flights.
    1. Revolver
      Revolver 5 October 2013 09: 02 New
      +6
      Quote: Sirocco
      It is ridiculous to declare the export of an airplane that is not planned to be put into service at home.

      Well the US traded the F-5 quite successfully. And before that, they supplied to the USSR "Aerocobras", which were not in service in America, but the cars were cool, Pokryshkin nailed a considerable part of his combat account on them.
      1. tomket
        tomket 5 October 2013 09: 24 New
        +4
        the pilots were cool, they pushed the cobra away to the Pacific Ocean, and used it there for limited purposes.
        1. Revolver
          Revolver 5 October 2013 19: 32 New
          +1
          Quote: tomket
          Cobra stuffed farther into the Pacific

          Something I do not remember that Pokryshkin distinguished himself with the Japanese. He was somehow more Germans.
          Quote: tomket
          , and used there to a limited extent.
          By the end of the war, Pokryshkin was really limited, so that God forbid a living legend would not be shot down, although sometimes he burst into the sky. But his entire regiment flew on "cobras" without any restrictions.
      2. 0255
        0255 5 October 2013 11: 33 New
        +2
        Well, the U.S. pretty successfully traded the F-5

        But the F-5 was still in service with the United States, was a more serious opponent of the Soviet MiG-21, was used to imitate the MiG-21 in exercises. And the J-31, like the J-20, is not known what they are. And why do the Chinese buy the Su-35, if the J-20, according to them, is superior to the Su-35. And for aircraft carriers they copy the Su-33, instead of the deck versions of their "J"
        1. Avenger711
          Avenger711 5 October 2013 12: 58 New
          +1
          Nevertheless, the F-20 was already purely export, although it did not grow together, and decided to sell the F-16.
        2. Revolver
          Revolver 5 October 2013 21: 21 New
          +1
          Quote: 0255
          But the F-5 was still in service with the United States, was a more serious opponent of the Soviet MiG-21, and was used to simulate the MiG-21 in exercises.
          Well, if so, then we can say that the MiG-15 consisted, the one that the Korean hijacked. They didn’t use it for imitation, but did not try and did not plan to fight it.
          Quote: 0255
          And why do the Chinese buy the Su-35 if the J-20, according to them, is superior to the Su-35.
          Then to produce seamless SU-35 called J-some number. What did you think?
    2. Beon
      Beon 5 October 2013 10: 53 New
      +2
      And so this is balabalism from China, or their media

      This is not balabalism - this is the way of Chinese self-PR!
    3. georg737577
      georg737577 5 October 2013 11: 42 New
      0
      ... There is limited data on the J-31, and it is impossible to say whether it is superior or inferior to the F-35. How can we evaluate an airplane if we don’t know anything about the airborne radar, subsystems, avionics and what materials it is made of ...
  5. major071
    major071 5 October 2013 08: 04 New
    11
    They just forgot to process it after assembly. It's hard to copy from a photo.
  6. Valery Neonov
    Valery Neonov 5 October 2013 08: 07 New
    11
    Chinese trash- INTENDED .... and let them distribute ... and it’s not scary that something is wrong, but cheap .. yeah:
  7. Far East
    Far East 5 October 2013 08: 18 New
    +7
    “America has always produced and is producing the world's best aircraft. This is what he said without thinking! laughing
    1. Yarik
      Yarik 5 October 2013 10: 06 New
      +3
      Well, there is definitely a certain truth in his words. In the second world war, in particular, there were no analogues of the R-51, R-47 and B-29.
      1. me
        me 5 October 2013 11: 19 New
        +1
        I agree. They have the best civil aviation in the world and this is a universally recognized fact and the military is not far behind. You just need to come to terms with this fact and try to catch up and overtake as usual.
      2. Diesel
        Diesel 5 October 2013 13: 02 New
        +2
        Quote: Yarik
        R-51, R-47 and B-29 were not


        Spitfire mk14, tempest mk5. But the B29 is truly a masterpiece of its time.
    2. Avenger711
      Avenger711 5 October 2013 15: 25 New
      +1
      We reached their level only in the 4th generation of fighters, while at the same time they were behind them in the civilian field, just like AvtoVAZ. And so, according to the resource, culture of design and production, we were far from them, after all, such things have not been developed for a couple of decades, and when the USA already had a developed aviation industry, 85% of the population in villages lived in our country.
  8. Strashila
    Strashila 5 October 2013 08: 41 New
    +1
    The Chinese have created a product ... its properties are not known ... but given its cost, there will be demand. It is doubtful whether it can be used as a strike, but as a reconnaissance target or electronic warfare in conjunction with strike machines, Iran will acquire about a dozen and Israel will have fun, even if this machine will show 50 percent of the claimed.
    1. Basileus
      Basileus 6 October 2013 21: 11 New
      +1
      Neither Russia nor China ventured to sell weapons to Iran. Firstly, we are not ready to go against sanctions, and secondly, Iran, no matter what anti-American position it takes, is not the most reliable partner who can throw anything. And it would be better for him to have good defensive weapons that are not subject to sanctions than good offensive ones.

      But Israeli pilots, no matter how I like this country, know their job, and the Chinese fighters in the Persian army are unlikely to be scared.
  9. cherkas.oe
    cherkas.oe 5 October 2013 08: 49 New
    +4
    Yes, sadness for the Chinese was formed, as in that Belarusian proverb: - ​​"Grandma has nailed a borshechka, and I don't eat cats, don't eat dogs." Yuanqi spent something like a goat in a crack, well, no cho, "experience, the son of difficult mistakes", but the paradox is that their dough is not measured, and geniuses are dumb. laughing
    1. Neighbor
      Neighbor 6 October 2013 18: 09 New
      +2
      So now we have geniuses separate from the dough, like flies from cutlets.
      1. aksakal
        aksakal 6 October 2013 23: 04 New
        +2
        Quote: Neighbor
        So now we have geniuses separate from the dough, like flies from cutlets.
        - for some reason, a stereotype has developed that if there are grandmothers, and if you have decided to invest these grandmothers in this business, then geniuses will be "automatically" born laughing
        So, after all, there is, besides the dough, many factors play a role in the appearance of geniuses, even the mental space and natural living conditions, the presence of iodine in food and a bunch of other things, is not so simple. And an advanced education system should be available, and not just on cramming, as it is now practiced in China - and there it is practiced, the survival system and the tough element of survival appear back in school, those who do not succeed in the middle classes are screened out and sent to professional education - a hairdresser, a salesperson, etc., moreover, the criterion for a good study is precisely the ability to learn, so that it bounces off the teeth - and on instilling in the student the ability to think and find a solution.

        In short, loot essentially does not solve much. Although, if there is money, and your government, in addition to money for your purposes, has still managed to carry out a competent PR-action in the world to attract geniuses from all over the world to the country, then a mixture of money with a certain concentration of geniuses can create a thermonuclear mixture. And we have seen these examples - the same so-called. "silicon Valley".
        Russia needs to learn to combine such hard-to-connect things in one place at the right time and convenient for Russia, and at the same time learn to prevent all sorts of crooks and thieves there at that moment. Most importantly, Russia still does not suffer from a shortage of geniuses. But with the rest ... They finish off the education system, try to loot, if not select it, then make it virtual or somehow depreciate, and besides this, the bureaucrats have enough of their own stupidity.
  10. ed65b
    ed65b 5 October 2013 08: 56 New
    16
    Joke.
    The Chinese sold his soul to the devil - three days later the soul broke.
    1. Far East
      Far East 5 October 2013 09: 06 New
      +1
      Quote: ed65b
      The Chinese sold his soul to the devil - three days later the soul broke.

      good laughing Edward, this is exactly the point hit with a joke. hi
    2. Dober
      Dober 5 October 2013 14: 37 New
      +2
      Quote: ed65b
      three days later the soul broke.

      In the language of hucksters, this is not a marriage, but "sales promotion".
      Initially, this is how the resource was laid - three days. And then for a new "soul" ...
      1. alicante11
        alicante11 6 October 2013 16: 20 New
        +1
        So they alone will last for thousands of years with a billion :).
  11. Hitrovan07
    Hitrovan07 5 October 2013 09: 08 New
    +3
    And for a long time, apparently, China was going to understand that a "replica" without a fundamental base (materials, technologies) is just a toy - and an expensive one. Maybe now it will increase the order for the Su-35 10 times laughing
  12. Odysseus
    Odysseus 5 October 2013 09: 26 New
    +8
    The article is weak. The J-31 is still a flying prototype, besides without a serial engine. If you take into account Chinese secrecy (and they are great masters of concealing the truth in 20 thousand varieties of lies), the only thing that can be said about it is that nothing can be said about him.
    Wait and see.
    The only conclusion that can be drawn from this and many other articles recently appeared in the Western press regarding the PLA and the military-industrial complex of China - the military capabilities of China are of great interest and are the subject of constant discussion.
  13. APASUS
    APASUS 5 October 2013 09: 30 New
    +2
    5th generation Chinese aircraft can be used as an expensive target!
    They do not know how to make airplanes of their design, stupidly copy SU ........ and then immediately the 5th generation, it seems they copied from a picture from an Internet
    1. Odysseus
      Odysseus 5 October 2013 09: 35 New
      +1
      Quote: APASUS
      They do not know how to make aircraft of their design, stupidly copy SU

      In fact, the first aircraft of their design appeared in their 70s, and they refused to copy the Su-27SK as obsolete in 2003.
      1. APASUS
        APASUS 5 October 2013 10: 15 New
        +4
        Quote: Odyssey
        they refused to copy the Su-27SK as obsolete in 2003.

        Yah ....! I’m stupid, I thought that all of our copy! laughing
        Do not write nonsense !!
        Look at the years of the creation of the J-15, a copy of the Su-27SK and in what quantity it is accepted for service.
        1. Odysseus
          Odysseus 5 October 2013 10: 27 New
          -1
          Quote: APASUS
          Look at the years of the creation of the J-15, a copy of the Su-27SK and how much is adopted

          J-15 is an upgraded version of the Su-33 (Su-27K), has no relation to the Su-27SK.
          Su-27SK were purchased back in the 90s, while China acquired a license to produce 200 copy aircraft. They refused the program in 2003 after delivering 95 sets.
          1. APASUS
            APASUS 5 October 2013 10: 43 New
            +2
            Quote: Odyssey
            J-15 is an upgraded version of the Su-33 (Su-27K), has no relation to the Su-27SK.

            That is, the J-15 is not a copy of the Su-33 (Su-27K), but their own development?
            Are you pushing this idea to me, or is China not producing the J-15 now?
            Call me a Chinese plane - from a culman to the last bolt!
            1. Diesel
              Diesel 5 October 2013 12: 56 New
              +1
              Quote: APASUS
              That is, the J-15 is not a copy of the Su-33 (Su-27K), but their own development?

              Do not confuse the Su-27SK is just an export version of the Su-27, and the Su-27K and Su-33 carrier-based aircraft.
            2. Avenger711
              Avenger711 5 October 2013 15: 27 New
              +1
              And no one knows that the J-11 and J-15 are actually Chinese and how it works there.
            3. Odysseus
              Odysseus 5 October 2013 19: 59 New
              +2
              Quote: APASUS
              That is, the J-15 is not a copy of the Su-33 (Su-27K), but their own development?

              The J-15 is an upgraded version of the Su-27K. Do you distinguish an upgrade from a copy? If you follow your logic, then we can write that Russia continues to "stupidly copy" the Su, since the Su-30SM and Su-35S that are just entering service are nothing more than modernized versions of the Su-27. By the way, the Su-30SM uses components of foreign production.
              Quote: APASUS
              Call me a Chinese plane - from a culman to the last bolt!

              There are none yet. Actually, this is not surprising. I recall the PRC began to carry out industrialization in the late 50s, that is, 30 years later than the USSR, and almost a hundred years later than the West. Under these conditions, with regard to such complex production as military aircraft China had only one way.
              1) Attempted copying.
              2) Copy.
              3) Creating your own aircraft with separate components and assemblies of foreign production.
              4) Creating your own aircraft.
              They are developing very quickly, and are now between stage 3 and 4.
              1. APASUS
                APASUS 6 October 2013 14: 40 New
                0
                Quote: Odyssey
                J-15 is a modernized version of the Su-27K. Do you distinguish modernization from a copy?

                That's what, in principle, I wanted to hear. And then you went straight ........
                , and they refused to copy the Su-27SK as obsolete in 2003.

                China is currently producing copies ......... even if they are modernized, but this is not progress, but rather a regression in development!
  14. Corsair5912
    Corsair5912 5 October 2013 09: 32 New
    +7
    But no espionage and copying technology can provide the creation of high-tech aircraft, such as modern American fighters, says Congressman Adam Kinzinger. An Air Force veteran, he still serves as a National Guard Air Force pilot. “America has always produced and produces the best aviation technology in the world. Although China claims the great potential of J-31, I will remain a skeptic until I see evidence, ”he says.

    Congressman Adam either does not know or is lying.
    USAA does not shy away from espionage and copying technologies, once the Russians planted such a pig for them that they almost went broke.
    About thirty years ago, flipping through a popular scientific and technical magazine, American intelligence officers stumbled upon an article by the Russian physicist Peter Ufimtsev, which stated that wing-type aircraft made of certain materials, especially faceted and painted, were practically invisible to radars .
    The article was very interested in American military experts, and in the United States decided to build and test such an aircraft.
    Attempts to create a "plane-complete invisibility" for a long time were unsuccessful. Only twenty years ago, the United States showed the world a miracle of military technology, similar to a bat or an alien ship. Two modifications of the "stealth" were made: the F-117 fighter-bomber and the B-2 heavy strategic bomber, which were used in the war against Iraq. A little later, the F-22 invisible fighter came into operation. It turned out that the technological breakthrough of the Americans in the production of "stealth" was associated with the emigration of Ufimtsev to the United States, which was involved in the creation of invisibility.
    For many years Ufimtsev did the same in the USSR. And not only him.
    In at least two Soviet design bureaus, various types of invisible aircraft were built and tested. The conclusion of the authoritative commissions was as follows:
    1) an invisible aircraft made according to the ideas of Ufimtsev, due to its shape, has low speed and maneuverability - in fact it is a hang glider, poorly adapted to combat maneuver and incapable of aerobatics;
    2) the aircraft can be detected visually and with special high-frequency radars; in addition, when bombs are opened and in some flight modes, it is visible with ordinary radars and can be easily shot down after a "notch";
    3) the cost of the aircraft is prohibitive.
    Conclusion: the construction of such aircraft is impractical; Moreover, this type of aircraft is a “dead end branch of the development of military aviation”.
    Therefore, at the beginning of the 1980-s, work on the Ufa’s "stealth" in the USSR was stopped. The offended designer left for the USA, where he realized at the expense of the Americans his “senseless" ideas, as time has proved,.

    One could speak about the relatively high quality of American military aviation equipment about 30-40 years ago, since then the Yusovites have pretty much degraded, and other countries have pretty risen.
    1. Avenger711
      Avenger711 5 October 2013 15: 35 New
      +2
      In fact, the appearance of the F-117 is due to a lack of computing power to calculate reflection. They’re such little ones. Accordingly, the problem was solved from the contrary, a calculable model created from planes was created, and it was already taught to fly. Accusations that without EDSU and computers the airplane is uncontrollable are not serious, since the Su-27 being statically unstable is also uncontrollable in principle, without a computer.
      So you can’t consider the idea of ​​a feil, the F-22 and T-50 appeared, and the T-50 may have even more chances to occupy the F-117 niche than to become the basis of air defense, although here it’s the fifth generation with over-the-air supersonic sound, it is precisely as a vehicle for delivering missiles to the intercept line that surpasses the 5th one.
    2. Basileus
      Basileus 6 October 2013 21: 18 New
      0
      And ours, apparently, again doing the wing PAK YES?
  15. vlad.svargin
    vlad.svargin 5 October 2013 09: 45 New
    +2
    this aircraft was created on the basis of studying American military aircraft, and not just the design of the F-117, shot down in 1999 by a Serbian anti-aircraft missile, hinting that the Chinese with the help of cyber attacks could get some useful technical drawings of the F-22 and F-35.

    Since ancient times, China has always "hunted" for technology, and now this behavior is inherent in them. And I am sure that the modern breakthrough in everything is a consequence of foreign technologies, including ours (astronautics). Many, after the opening time, then attributed to themselves, only rewriting their history several times, obliterating their foreign teachers, if they could not be called Chinese. This is also inherent in modern China. And they did not understand something in the design of the aircraft, as a result they got trash that can be pushed into underdeveloped countries.
    1. Far East
      Far East 5 October 2013 10: 37 New
      +1
      Quote: vlad.svargin
      which can be pushed into underdeveloped countries.

      well, it's like the balts to their invincible army laughing
  16. awg75
    awg75 5 October 2013 09: 52 New
    +3
    Turks have to offer, they will buy ....
  17. HAM
    HAM 5 October 2013 10: 34 New
    +4
    I repeat: in America, Russian professors teach Chinese students for American money, this means that the Chinese are very trainable and diligent, it's only a matter of time, so that those who boast of the "uniqueness" of technologies don't have to cry.
    1. Far East
      Far East 5 October 2013 10: 52 New
      +2
      Quote: HAM
      I repeat: in America, Russian professors teach Chinese students for American money, this means that the Chinese are very trainable and diligent, it's only a matter of time, so that those who boast of the "uniqueness" of technologies don't have to cry.

      so our trainer and their athletes train! the results are even very positive. but genius does not train! this is a spark in the human brain that they bring to life by trial and error and notice with your own head! rather than stupidly copying. then the Chinese time has not come yet! hi
      1. HAM
        HAM 5 October 2013 10: 56 New
        +3
        Well, God forbid that it comes later! But the gunpowder is still from China.
        1. Corsair5912
          Corsair5912 5 October 2013 11: 34 New
          +7
          Quote: HAM
          Well, God forbid that it comes later! But the gunpowder is still from China.

          A controversial issue, there is no evidence that gunpowder was invented in China, except for the fabulous tales of the Chinese themselves. The dating of Chinese documents is also not absolute and unreliable. The Chinese chronology is very different from the European. Chinese manuscripts dated to the 5-6 century with the same foundations can be attributed to the 15-16 century.
          Most likely gunpowder was invented in India, where there are natural deposits of potassium nitrate, which has never happened in China.
          Not the first time that India's priority has been intercepted, the "Arabic numerals" that we use were invented by the Indians.
        2. Far East
          Far East 5 October 2013 11: 56 New
          +1
          Quote: HAM
          Well, God forbid that it comes later! But the gunpowder is still from China.

          yes, and the flag is in their hands. I agree with the Corsair, sho gunpowder maybe it's not China! that's when they continue to build their "China wall" on the MOON laughing here it will be daaaaaaa! hi
        3. Locksmith
          Locksmith 5 October 2013 13: 43 New
          +2
          Only the Chinese did not call themselves Chinese before, but for a long time China-town has been known, in Moscow
        4. biglow
          biglow 19 October 2013 17: 43 New
          0
          Quote: HAM
          Well, God forbid that it comes later! But the gunpowder is still from China.

          in Europe gunpowder was invented by a Prague chemist, monk Bertold Schwartz, and there are supporting documents and all the necessary raw materials. The Chinese have neither documents nor a complete set of raw materials ....
  18. kosopooz77
    kosopooz77 5 October 2013 12: 44 New
    +4
    An acquaintance was recently on a business trip in Shanghai, he said that he saw a Chinese car only once in all the time. Also, they have their own "crafts" for those who want "cheap and beautiful", and they themselves fly on decent " foreign cars "
  19. Ezhaak
    Ezhaak 5 October 2013 13: 20 New
    +1
    he is just a "cheap copy" of the American F-22. “The J-31 is a kind of copy of the most advanced (and problematic) American F-22 fighter.
    As I understand it, a copy is when all the nodes are copied and daedalized. And this is just a semblance with a similar appearance and its own filling of both mechanics and electronics. And besides, we should know that the book of the famous scientist Ufimtsev P. Ya. “The method of boundary waves in the physical theory of diffraction”, ed. Soviet Radio, 1962, was in open sale in the USSR. It is this book that justifies the form and appearance of the aircraft and not only aircraft
  20. chunga-changa
    chunga-changa 5 October 2013 13: 20 New
    +1
    Nevertheless, for Pakistan and Brazil it will be a worthy and high-tech aircraft, and China will make money. Who is stopping us from making the t-50 in a simplified version for second-tier countries that compete not with America, but with the same secondary neighbors.
    1. es.d
      es.d 5 October 2013 14: 40 New
      +2
      Quote: chunga-changa
      Who's stopping us from making the t-50 in a simplified version


      I would not be so categorical. "Simplification" is a highly controversial task. Do not install part of the systems ...? change materials ...? This is not to remove the toilet lid (remember, back in the "shaggy" years there was an article where the cost of this accessory was given, in my opinion, on "Orion").
      1. chunga-changa
        chunga-changa 5 October 2013 15: 19 New
        +1
        What's so ambiguous, at the moment the t-50 is a simplified scheme, the engines are not full-time, the radar is not full-time, and missile weapons are not full-time. Debug and sell in this form. Myself naturally bring to the planned parameters.
        1. es.d
          es.d 5 October 2013 17: 31 New
          +1
          Quote: chunga-changa
          at the moment the t-50 is a simplified scheme

          I agree, but this is not a product. The Chinese, those - will buy (Adin pieces). From my own experience, staging (I'm from VAZ, just don't tell anyone, they will spit) on Production, all PTs (prototypes) are different. "Shoals" are caught, "WRONGS" are eliminated. The innocent are awarded, the innocent are punished.
          You suggest stopping at such and such a point. Every day, changes take place on the flow received.
          And this is so, it seems to me.
  21. honest jew
    honest jew 5 October 2013 14: 22 New
    +2
    Quote: seasoned
    "And who are the judges? ..."


    You are ransacked under the law,
    Before you, the court and the truth - keep quiet! ..

    But there is also God's judgment, confidants of debauchery!
    There is a terrible trial: he is waiting;
    It is not accessible to the ringing of gold,
    And he knows thoughts and deeds in advance.
    Then in vain you will resort to evil thoughts:

    It will not help you again !!! hi
  22. Alikovo
    Alikovo 5 October 2013 14: 39 New
    +1
    like the American trash f-35.
  23. HAM
    HAM 5 October 2013 16: 12 New
    0
    To our great regret, all, or almost all, consumer goods, and not only, are INHIBITED to us in Russia. Bad copies, good or not, are brought in to us, just like in Vanuatu ...
  24. nazgul-ishe
    nazgul-ishe 5 October 2013 17: 35 New
    0
    They won’t want to lose a good market, which means they will take a while to attack.
  25. Watchman
    Watchman 5 October 2013 17: 46 New
    0
    They will sell it to someone, look at the problems in operation, finalize and put into service. Pragmatic guys!
  26. varov14
    varov14 5 October 2013 18: 00 New
    0
    The Americans, of course, are an "exceptional" nation, But the Chinese are ancient - they will catch up, we will still be surprised. Well done, that they do not hesitate to copy, it means that industrial intelligence is not asleep, saving money, gaining experience - they are far from being fools.
  27. The comment was deleted.
  28. alone
    alone 5 October 2013 20: 00 New
    +1
    Well, of course you can laugh at the Chinese as much as you like. But one day we stop laughing and we will see that the Chinese have already concocted their 5th generation of fighters and how popcorn punch them. Then it will be too late. The fact is that China is already not the one who was. and no one there with batons does not run after sparrows. The government and the people of China are working hard for the good of their state. They WORK. rather than tongue scratching
  29. sergey158-29
    sergey158-29 5 October 2013 21: 43 New
    +2
    Any "rival" should not be EVALUATED BEFORE, let alone the whole COUNTRY ... yes

    Who would have recently thought that CHINA would be able to build PROTOTYPES:
    - manned spacecraft and station
    - aircraft J-20/31
    - aircraft carrier

    Not to mention tanks, infantry fighting vehicles, air defense and other weapons ...

    And for URA ... - I’ll ask, when will the second stage of the engine for the T-50 be implemented?
    Then compare it with the J-31 ...
    1. SAG
      SAG 5 October 2013 23: 11 New
      +1
      And for URA ... - I’ll ask, when will the second stage of the engine for the T-50 be implemented?
      Then compare it with the J-31 ...

      Very soon! The prototype of the second stage engine "product 117" is already ready for bench tests, the beginning of which is scheduled for the beginning of 2014 by the Lyulka Scientific and Technical Center.
      According to unconfirmed reports, the power plant will be able to develop traction of 107 kilonewtons in cruising flight mode and in 176 kilonewtons afterburner mode !!! fellow
  30. Monster_Fat
    Monster_Fat 6 October 2013 00: 01 New
    +6
    I am amazed at the stupidity and naivety of many forum participants, who still believe that the so-called. "copying" by the Chinese is a kind of process, where a million Chinese disassemble a mechanism to a screw, and then sit and figure out how to make it out of auxiliary materials. I must say that at first it was so, but now China has made a huge step, precisely in copying technologies and adjusting these technologies to their capabilities. The Chinese have created a huge center where they have assembled special stands, workshops, laboratories, etc., where various materials and technologies are studied. For example, various parts are immediately measured with lasers and light beams and general 3D models are created with an accuracy of a micron, the material from which this part was made is examined by express methods for composition and, right there, the supercomputer selects the technology by which this work could be made and selects it changes in the technological process, allowing you to make a similar part on your equipment and from suitable materials. And if there is no such technology in China, then the program indicates what is lacking and what needs to be done. It is not for nothing that the Chinese buy or steal ANY technologies of absolutely everything, all over the world. So that the Chinese "do not slurp soup with bast shoes" as we do, and do not "whistle" about their successes, which in Russia are just on paper and in the fantasies of "poztreots", but work, work and work again. And their successes speak for themselves - we dress them every day, ride them, use them every day, they furnish our rooms, we eat them, etc., etc.
    1. michajlo
      michajlo 6 October 2013 00: 28 New
      +2
      Good evening, dear "nickname without a name"!

      You are completely right in your assessment of the efforts, potential and results achieved by China! good This is a serious and very strong ally / adversary.

      I’ll add on my own that mocking them, underestimating their talents, perseverance and hard work - it can come out very expensive for us, you and many others are completely right in front of you!

      Indeed, by and large, both the Russian Federation, the Republic of Belarus and the Republic of Kazakhstan and the Republic of Uzbekistan, live on the backlogs of the SOVIET MIC, science, research institutes and our common talents!
      So far nothing new, breakthrough anywhere in the vast post-USSR, I have not seen !!!
      Everywhere there is a lot of idle talk, promises, eulogies and chronic postponements of the test dates, endings, fine-tuning, and serial production of new equipment - NO in any of our republic / sorry country.

      But the enemies / opponents are nevertheless being done, and in some areas they have gone far ahead, and we all “throw our hats”, as when parting with our beloved mother-in-law.

      It is possible that “I’m blind” and didn’t buy “rose-colored glasses”, didn’t get acquainted with the new “secret developments”, but we are very LAGGERING, for 22 years of collapse and “de * democracy” we have lost a lot, and it will take a long time to restore it and then only on condition that our "independent and independent" countries RELATE !!!
      Alone, then all of us at any moment in the corner can be strangled by “our friends / advisers” and we won’t even pickle.

      Sincerely, Mikhailo. hi
  31. svp67
    svp67 6 October 2013 09: 55 New
    +1
    Recently, the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) of China stated that this aircraft is for export only,
    This is also art. The money was spent, but what they wanted was not received, so the question arises, what to do? You can just forget and reassure yourself with the thought that you have gained experience ..., or you can complete the project and "sniff" this "product" to others, getting money and knowing that even if they become your opponents with this "product", there is no particular threat ... What do you say - well done, scoundrels ... wassat
  32. Sirs
    Sirs 7 October 2013 02: 58 New
    0
    This plane is spoiling. Advertising - remove damage to photos.
  33. samoletil18
    samoletil18 11 October 2013 21: 08 New
    0
    The Americans came up with this article. They themselves have jambs with the 5th generation, so they show: "But China finally can not." And what they have is real, go and guess. It is no coincidence that Motorolla is bringing production to Texas.