Military Review

Treason of Mazepa and the pogrom of Cossack liberties by Tsar Peter

56
In the previous article "The transfer of the Cossack army hetman to the Moscow service»It was shown how, in the incredibly difficult and cruel conditions of the merciless national liberation and civil war (ruins), the Dnieper Cossacks of the Hetmanate went over to the Moscow service. This war, like any civil war, was accompanied by a multilateral military intervention. The process was accompanied by a continuous series of betrayals, betrayals and excesses of the Cossack hetmans and gentry, together with the troops to different parties to the conflict. At the end of this perennial Ukrainian distemper, Cossack Colonel Mazepa, who was elected Hetman in 1685, became increasingly important. His nearly quarter-century hetman was fundamentally different from all the previous ones by the irreproachable service in Moscow. It seemed that he had finally put the Dnieper on the service of the new empire. However, it all ended as always in Ukraine, a monstrous and treacherous betrayal on the eve of the Poltava battle. But first things first.


Ivan Mazepa was born in the Ukrainian gentry Orthodox family in the Kiev region. He studied at the Kiev-Mohyla College, then - at the Jesuit College in Warsaw. Later, at the behest of his father, he was received at the court of the Polish king Jan Casimir, where he was one of the “noble” nobles. The proximity to the king allowed Mazepa to get a good education: he studied in Holland, Italy, Germany and France, fluent in Russian, Polish, Tatar, Latin. He also knew Italian, German and French. I read a lot, had an excellent library in many languages. In the 1665 year, after the death of his father, he took the post of the Chernigov substitute. At the end of 1669, his father-in-law, the convict general Semyon Polovtsov, helped him to advance in the circle of the right-bank hetman Doroshenko: Mazepa became the captain of the hetman court guard, then a clerk. In June 1674, Doroshenko sent Mazepa an envoy to the Crimean Khanate and Turkey. The delegation carried the left-bank Cossacks to the 15 Sultan as slaves-hostages. On the way to Constantinople, the delegation was intercepted by the ataman Ivan Sirko. Zaporozhian Cossacks, who seized Mazepa, transported it to left bank hetman Samoilovich. The getman entrusted the educated Mazepa with the education of his children, conferred on him the rank of troop comrade, and after a few years granted him the rank of captain. On the instructions of Samoylovich, Mazepa every year went to Moscow with the Dnieper “winter” village (embassy). During the reign of Sophia, power was actually in the hands of her favorite Prince Golitsyn.

The well-educated and well-read Mazepa gained his favor. When, after an unsuccessful Crimean campaign, it was necessary to shift the blame on someone, Golitsyn dumped it on Hetman Samoilovich (however, not without reason). He was deprived of the hetman, sent to Siberia with a crowd of relatives and supporters, his son Gregory was beheaded, and Mazepa was elected to the hetmans, mainly because Golitsyn, who loved him so much, wanted it.

When the young and energetic Peter I ascended the Russian throne in 1689, Mazepa again used his gift to charm those in power. Hetman constantly advised the young monarch in Polish affairs, and over time a close personal friendship arose between them. Young king Peter, carried away by the sea, sought to open access to the coast and by the beginning of his reign on the southern borders of the country favorable conditions had developed for this. The next European coalition, in which Russia was a member, was actively acting against the Turks, but 2 trips to the Crimea during the reign of Princess Sophia ended unsuccessfully. In 1695, Peter announced a new campaign on the Black Sea coast, with the goal of occupying Azov. The first time this was not possible, and the huge army retreated north in the fall. The next year, the campaign was better prepared, combat-ready was created. flotilla, and on July 19, Azov surrendered and was occupied by the Russians. Mazepa with the troops took part in both campaigns of Peter to Azov and gained even greater trust of the king. After the capture of Azov, Tsar Peter outlined broad state programs for consolidation in the south. To strengthen Moscow’s communication with the Azov coast, the tsar decided to connect the Volga with the Don and in 1697 35 thousand workers began digging a canal from the Kamyshinka river to the upper reaches of Ilovli, and another 37 thousand worked to strengthen the Azov, Taganrog and the Azov coast. The conquest of Azov by Moscow, the Azov nomad hordes, the construction of fortresses in the lower Don and on the Azov coast became decisive events in stories Don and Dnieper Cossacks. In foreign policy, Peter set a goal to intensify the activities of the anti-Turkish coalition. To this end, in 1697, he traveled with the embassy abroad. Saving the southern frontiers was entrusted to the Don and left-bank Dnieper Cossacks with the prohibition to “disturb bassurman at sea very quickly”. They adequately did this service, and in February, 1700, Mazepa became the holder of the Order of St. Andrew the First Called, founded by Peter. Peter personally placed the marks of the order on the hetman "for his many noble and diligently faithful faithful services in his military writings."

However, during his trip abroad, Peter became convinced of the impracticability of the idea of ​​a "crusade" of Christian sovereigns against the Turks. The political situation in Europe has changed dramatically. It was the beginning of two big wars. Austria and France started a war among themselves for the right to put their contenders for the Spanish throne (war for the Spanish inheritance), and in the north the war of the union of European countries against Sweden began. Peter had either to wage war against Turkey alone or to end the struggle for mastering the coast of the Baltic Sea. The second choice was facilitated by the fact that Sweden turned against all its weak neighbors: Denmark, Poland and Brandenburg. Many lands of these countries were seized by Sweden under the previous kings Gustav Adolf and Karl X Gustav. King Charles XII was young and inexperienced, but he continued the warlike policies of his ancestors, and he also intensified repression against the oligarchy of the occupied Baltic lands. In response, the Master of the Livonian Order, von Patkul, became the instigator of the coalition against Charles. In 1699, Russia secretly joined this coalition, but only after the conclusion of peace with Turkey joined the hostilities. The beginning of the war was tragic. The fact is that the basis of the combat readiness and combat capability of the Russian army during the two preceding centuries was deliberate (permanent and professional) rifle troops. But they with great distrust (and this is putting it mildly) reacted to the reforms of Peter the Great and, in his absence, revolted, which was cruelly suppressed. As a result of the royal "search" and the terrible repression of the Strelets army was eliminated. The country was left virtually without a permanent regular army combat. The terrible defeat at Narva was a cruel retribution for these thoughtless reforms.

Figure.1 Streltskaya penalty. In the background is King Peter


Karl's path to Moscow was open, but Karl, after some deliberation, launched an offensive against Poland and was tightly occupied with this war from 1701 to 1707 the year. During this time, he defeated the Polish and Saxon army, made the North German principalities, also Saxony and Silesia dependent, completely mastered Poland and forced the Saxon Elector Augustus to abandon the Polish crown. Instead, he was elevated to the Polish throne by Stanislav Leschinsky. In fact, Karl became the supreme administrator of the Commonwealth and she lost her independence. But Peter spent this long-term respite adequately and effectively used to create a new regular army practically from scratch. Taking advantage of the fact that Russia is leading the war in a minor direction for the Swedes, Peter I began to conquer Ingermanlandia, and in 1703 he founded a new fortress city St. Petersburg at the mouth of the Neva. In the 1704 year, taking advantage of the uprising against the Commonwealth and the invasion of Swedish troops in Poland, Mazepa occupied the Right-Bank Ukraine. He repeatedly proposed to Peter I to combine both Ukraine into one Little Russia, which Peter refused because he respected the previously concluded agreement with Poland on the division of Ukraine into Right and Left Bank. In 1705, Mazepa made a trip to Volyn, to help Peter's ally, Augustus. The successes of the Russians in Courland in the same year prompted Charles XII to make a new decision, namely: after the defeat of August II, to return to action against Russia and to seize Moscow. In 1706, Peter met with Mazepa in Kiev, and Mazepa warmly set about building the Pechersk fortress laid by Peter. But 1706 year was a year of political failures of the Russian state. 2 February 1706, the Swedes defeated the Saxon army, and 13 in October 1706, Peter's ally, the Saxon elector and the Polish king Augustus, abandoned the Polish throne in favor of the Swedes' supporter Stanislav Leschinsky and severed the alliance with Russia. Moscow remained alone in the war with Sweden. It was then that Mazepa conceived a possible transition to the side of Charles XII and the formation of “independent ownership” from Little Russia under the rule of the puppet Polish king, which his correspondence with Princess Dolskoy unequivocally testifies to. The Dnieper Cossacks, first of all, their foreman, the Moscow authorities, but the transition to the service of the Polish king, following the example of previous times, was also closed.

Poland itself lost its independence and was under Swedish occupation. The opportunity for the Dnieper Cossacks to get rid of the dependence of Moscow lay in the war between Moscow and Sweden, but only on condition that the latter was victorious. A well-known phrase of Mazepa, uttered by him in the circle of the most approximate 17 of September of 1707: “Without extreme, last need, I will not change my loyalty to the royal majesty.” Then he explained that this could be for “extreme need”: “Until I see that royal majesty will not be able to protect not only Ukraine, but also his entire state from Swedish potency.” After the abdication of Augustus of the Polish crown, Karl XII stood in Saxony for almost a year, and in the summer of 1707, the Swedish army marched east. Small Russian troops were in Vilna and Warsaw to support the allied part of the Polish army, but it was not combat-ready and gave the cities to the Swedes without a fight. After passing through Poland, the Swedish army in January 1708 took Grodno, then Mogilyov, then lodged all spring in the region west of Minsk, receiving reinforcements and conducting combat training.

Along with the threat from the west, Russia was very restless on the Don. There, part of the Cossacks, connecting with the poor and fugitive under the leadership of Kondraty Bulavina instigated a revolt, which had its own reasons. Since 1705, the salt-making from the private business has been transferred to the state. On the Don, the center of the salt was the Bakhmut district, where the chieftain was Kondraty Bulavin. The craft was in the hands of homely Cossacks, but it was very laborious. The Cossacks in the salt flats "greeted every rabble" and a large number of runaway people gathered around the salt flats. Meanwhile, the royal decree of 1703, the Cossacks were forbidden under the penalty of the death penalty to take to themselves fugitive people. All arrivals to the Don later 1695 year corresponded, every tenth of them were sent to work in Azov, the rest of the former places of residence. In 1707, Prince Dolgorukov with a detachment was sent to the Don to withdraw fugitive people from there, but was attacked by Bulavin and his goals and was killed. Once at the head of the disgruntled element, Bulavin took the path of open insurrection against Moscow and called the whole Don to this. But the Cossacks did not support Bulavina, ataman Lukyanov assembled an army and defeated the rebels on Aydar. Bulavin with the remnants of supporters fled to Zaporizhia and the Rada allowed them to settle in Kodak. There, he began to collect around him dissatisfied and send "lovely letters." In March, 1708, he again went to Don in the Bakhmut district. The Cossacks exiled against Bulavin did not show resilience, among them began unrest. Bulavin took advantage of this and defeated them. The rebels pursued the Cossacks and 6 May 1708, took Cherkassk. Atamans and officers were executed, and Bulavin proclaimed himself Ataman of the Army. However, on June 5, 1708, during fights between the rebels, Bulavin was killed (according to other data he shot himself). Bulavin’s riot coincided with Karl’s speech against Russia, and therefore the massacre of the rebels was steep. But the search showed that of the 20 thousands of rebel natural Cossacks was an insignificant minority, the rebellious army consisted mainly of fugitives. By the end of 1709, all the instigators of the rebellion were executed, among them there were several Cossacks and chieftains. Ataman Nekrasov with 7 thousands of rebels fled to the Kuban, where he surrendered under the auspices of the Crimean Khan. His detachment was settled on Taman, where he joined up with the schismatics who had fled before.

Taking into account the complexity of the internal and external situation, Peter I tried in every way to make peace with Sweden. His main condition was to leave Ingermanland for Russia. However, Charles XII rejected the proposals of Peter, transmitted through intermediaries, wanting to punish the Russians.

Finally, in June 1708, Karl XII began a campaign against Russia, while he set the following goals:
- complete destruction of the state independence of the Russian state
- the statement by the vassal on the Russian throne of either the young noble nobleman Yakub Sobessky, or, if he deserves, Tsarevich Alexei
- secession from Moscow of Pskov, Novgorod and the whole north of Russia in favor of Sweden
- the accession of Ukraine, Smolensk and other Western Russian territories to the vassal and submissive to the Swedes Poland
- the division of the rest of Russia into specific princedoms.

Karl was to choose his way to Moscow, and the Little Russian hetman Mazepa, Tsar Peter and ... Belarusian peasants played a decisive role in this choice. Mazepa reassured Karl that the Cossacks and Tatars are ready to unite with him against Russia. By that time, Mazepa had communicated his plans to the grand vizier of the Ottoman Empire, and he ordered the Crimean Khan Kaplan-Girey to provide Mazepa with all kinds of assistance. General Levengaupt’s corps moved from Riga to the connection with Karl with a huge wagon train, but he was intercepted by Peter and Menshikov from the village of Lesnaya and was beaten up. Saving the remains of the hull, Levengaupt threw a wagon train from 6000 carts and trucks and it went to the winners. The Swedes fully felt the “encroachment” in provisions and forage, in which the Belarusian peasantry contributed a lot, hiding bread and horse feed, killing foragers. In response, the Swedes lyutovali in the occupied territory. Karl moved to Ukraine to connect with Mazepa. Russian troops retreated, avoiding decisive battles.

Mazepa's intentions were no longer secret to his environment. Colonels Iskra and Kochubey sent Peter a letter of treason to Mazepa, but the king trusted the hetman and gave him both colonels, who were executed by a cruel and painful death. But time did not wait, and Mazepa set about fulfilling his plan. He made a decisive bet on the victory of the Swedish king. This fatal mistake had dramatic consequences for the entire Dnieper Cossacks. He announced the elders the need for treason in Moscow. Mazepa left a strong and reliable army from Serdyuk to protect the treasury, supplies and provisions in the fortress of Baturin, and he himself made, allegedly, to the front against the expected Swedes. But en route, Mazepa announced that he had withdrawn the army not against the Swedes, but against the Tsar of Moscow. Disorder began in the army, most of the Cossacks fled, no more than 2000 remained near it. Having received evidence of Mazepa’s treason, Menshikov in November 1708 of the year took by storm and destroyed Baturin to the ground, and the entire Serdyuk garrison was destroyed. In Glukhov tsar and loyal elders was elected a new hetman, Colonel Skoropadsky. The Polish king Leshchinsky made a connection with Karl and Mazepa, but on the way he was intercepted and routed at Podkamnia. The Russian troops cut off all of Karl’s communications with Poland and Sweden, he did not even receive courier messages. Due to illness, poor nutrition and ammunition, the Swedish army needed rest. That is why the Swedes and turned to the south, to Ukraine, to rest there, from the south to continue the offensive on Moscow. However, in Ukraine, the peasants also met foreigners with hatred and, like the Belarusians, ran into the woods, hid bread, feed for horses, and killed foragers. In addition, in Ukraine, the Russian army stopped the scorched-earth tactics, and the Russian government explained the treacherous behavior of Mazepa to the Ukrainians. The letter of Mazepa intercepted to the Polish king Stanislav Leschinsky, sent from Romen 5 in December 1708, was distributed in the Polish and Russian lists. It was spread by the Russian command, knowing well that nothing could so hopelessly undermine the authority of the changed hetman as exposing his intention to give Ukraine to Poland. Turks and Crimeans to the aid of Mazepa and Karl also did not hurry to speak. But the ataman of the Zaporozhye army Konstantin Gordienko with the army went over to the side of Charles. Tsar Peter ordered the army and Don Cossacks to destroy Zaporozhye in order to "destroy the entire nest of the rebels to the ground." 11 May 1709 of the year after the resistance, Sich was taken and destroyed, and all defenders destroyed. Thus, all Dnieper turned out to be in the hands of Moscow. The main centers of separatism, which Mazepa and Karl had hoped for, were destroyed. Karl's troops were surrounded around Poltava. The Russian garrison was located in Poltava itself, and Karl began a siege. But Menshikov with the detachment made his way to the fortress and strengthened the ones besieged by people and the wagon train. Peter began a rapprochement and 20 June took up positions for the general battle in 4 miles from the Swedish camp. Moscow troops are well prepared their positions. King Charles went on reconnaissance, personally led the observation, but he was wounded in the leg by the Cossacks. Since the days of King Gustav Adolf, the Swedish army was one of the strongest in Europe, behind her shoulders were many brilliant victories, including in the Northern War. Peter attached great importance to this battle, did not want, and had no right to risk, and, despite the twofold superiority in forces, he chose defensive tactics. The Russian command successfully used military tricks.

Karl XII decided to attack the army of Peter before the Kalmyks fit and completely break his communications. Also, the Swedes were aware that Russian recruits have a distinctive shape. Peter ordered the seasoned and seasoned soldiers to change clothes by new recruits, which inspired the Swedes with an unreasonable illusion and they were trapped. On the night of June 27, Karl moved his troops against the Russian army, covered by a profitable redoubt system. On both sides showed the highest courage, an example served as both monarchs. The deadly battle continued, but not for long. The Swedes failed to take redoubts. Already in the course of the battle, the Swedish commander-in-chief, Field Marshal Renschild, saw ranks of recruits on the Russian flank and sent the main blow of his best infantry there. But the invincible Swedish fusilers instead of recruits ran into disguised Guards regiments and in the main direction of the attack fell into a firebag and suffered heavy losses. The Swedes everywhere were not able to withstand the heavy fire of the Russian units, they became frustrated and began to retreat, and after the contusions of King Charles they ran. The Russians went on to the persecution, overtook them at the Perevalochny and forced them to surrender. In the battle, the Swedes lost over 11 thousands of soldiers, 24 thousands of prisoners and the entire wagon train were taken. The losses of the Russians amounted to 1345 people killed and 3290 wounded. It should be said that from the many thousands of Ukrainian Cossacks (the registered Cossacks numbered 30 thousand, the Zaporozhye Cossacks - 10 − 12 thousand) about 10 thousand people went to the side of Charles XII: about 3 thousand registered Cossacks and about 7 thousand Zaporozhians. But even those soon died partly, while others began to scatter from the camp of the Swedish army. King Charles XII did not dare to use such unreliable allies, of which there were about 2 thousands left in battle, and therefore left them in a wagon train under the supervision of cavalry regiments. Only a small detachment of Cossack volunteers participated in the battle. Peter I also did not fully trust the Cossacks of the new hetman I. I. Skoropadsky, and did not use them in battle. To look after them, he sent 6 dragoon regiments under the command of Major General G. S. Volkonsky.

Treason of Mazepa and the pogrom of Cossack liberties by Tsar Peter
Fig.2 Karl XII and Hetman Mazepa after the Battle of Poltava

After the battle, King Karl, escorted by his convoy and Mazepa's Cossacks, fled to Turkey. There in Bender 22 September 1709, Mazepa died. After his death, the Cossacks, who had gone with him, were settled by the Sultan in the lower reaches of the Dnieper, where they were given several shipments for "feeding". Thus ended this adventure of Mazepa, which had great negative consequences for the Dnieper army and for the entire Cossacks. The vile example of Mazepa, who betrayed the empire after many years of service, for many decades gave a reason for a large tribe of envious and rogue protesters to strengthen the economic and military foundations of the Cossacks to see only dangerous symptoms of separatism.

Even after nearly a century, the most (not afraid of this word) prominent of the glorious galaxy of Cossack leaders, Don ataman Matvey Ivanovich Platov did not avoid such a parallel. Despite the immaculate long-term service of the empire, for the enviable success in strengthening the Don economy and the Army, he was slandered, repressed, imprisoned in the Peter and Paul Fortress, but managed to avoid death and was rehabilitated to the great chagrin of Russia's enemies. In the history of the Cossacks, the revolt of Bulavin and the betrayal of Mazepa were disastrous for the liberty of the Cossacks. Above them really threatened the complete elimination of their independence. Under Hetman Skoropadsky, a board of representatives from Moscow was appointed, which controlled all his activities. The existence of the free Cossacks ended, it finally turned into a service class. The Troop Circle was replaced by a meeting of stanitsa Atamans and two elected officials from each stanitsa, in which the Atamans of the Troops and a military sergeant were elected. Then the elected chieftain was approved (or not approved) by the king. As before, only village meetings remained. After the abandonment of Azov by the Prut Treaty, the garrison of the Moscow troops from Azov was withdrawn near Cherkassk, and its commander, in addition to defensive tasks, was ordered to look at “no shakiness from the Don Cossacks ...”. From 1716, the Don Army was transferred from the management of the Ambassadorial Order to the Senate. The Don Diocese lost its independence and was subordinated to the Metropolitan of Voronezh. In 1722, the hetman Skoropadsky died, his deputy Tsar Peter the Tsar dislike and repressed. Little Russian Cossacks were left without a hetman at all and were governed by a board. That such a "noble beating" of Cossack liberties was made by Tsar Peter. Later, during the “Indian rule”, the Dnieper Cossacks were partially reanimated. However, Petrovsky lesson did not go in store. In the second half of the 18th century, a fierce and uncompromising struggle of Russia unfolded for Lithuania and Black Sea coast. In this struggle, the Dnipro people showed themselves again unreliably, rebelled, many treacherously changed and ran to the enemy camp. The cup of patience overflowed and in 1775, by the decree of Empress Catherine II, the Zaporizhian Sich was destroyed, as expressed in the decree, “as a godless and unnatural community, not suitable for the extension of the human race”, and the upper Dnepr Cossacks turned into hussar regiments of the regular army, namely Ostrog, Izyumok, Akhtyrsky and Kharkov. But this is a completely different and rather tragic story for the Dnieper Cossacks.

Gordeev A.A. History of the Cossacks
Istorija.o.kazakakh.zaporozhskikh.kak.onye.izdrevle.zachalisja.1851.
Letopisnoe.povestvovanie.o.Malojj.Rossii.i.ejo.narode.i.kazakakh.voobshhe.1847. A. Rigelman
Author:
Articles from this series:
Siberian Cossack Epic
Old Cossack ancestors
Cossacks and the annexation of Turkestan
Education Volga and Yaitsky Cossack Troops
Cossacks in Time of Troubles
Seniority (education) and the formation of the Don Cossack troops in the Moscow service
Azov seat and the transition of the Don troops in the Moscow service
Formation of the Dnieper and Zaporizhia troops and their service to the Polish-Lithuanian state
The transfer of the Cossack army hetman to the Moscow service
Treason of Mazepa and the pogrom of Cossack liberties by Tsar Peter
The uprising of Pugachev and the elimination of the Dnieper Cossacks by Empress Catherine
Cossacks in World War 1812 of the year. Part I, pre-war
Cossacks in World War 1812 of the year. Part II, the invasion and expulsion of Napoleon
Cossacks in World War 1812 of the year. Part III, foreign campaign
56 comments
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  1. Sylvester
    Sylvester 2 October 2013 10: 36 New
    +1
    How everything is twisted. sad Not only elections in the Russian Federation are falsified, but also history.
    1. Nicholas C.
      Nicholas C. 2 October 2013 15: 17 New
      +7
      Quote: Author Sergey Volgin
      Ivan Mazepa was born in a Ukrainian gentry Orthodox family in the Kiev region. He studied at the Kiev-Mohyla College, then - at the Jesuit College in Warsaw.

      Mazepa's grandfather was welded by the Poles in a copper bull along with Severin Nalyvayko. And the granddaughter began to serve the Poles. Something like this: if the grandfather of the SS-sheep were burned in a concentration camp furnace, and the granddaughter graduated from the SS high school and became a notorious Nazi.

      Quote: Author Sergey Volgin
      and the upper Dnieper Cossacks turned into the hussar regiments of the regular army, namely Ostrog, Izyumok, Akhtyrsky and Kharkov. But this is a completely different and rather tragic story for the Dnieper Cossacks.

      Ostrozhsky is probably Ostrogozhsky
      Izyumoksky is probably Izyumsky
      The author, apparently, does not know where the upper reaches of the Dnieper are, but where is Slobozhanshchina. Because listed part of the suburban regiments. Slobozhanschina was not part of the hetman. It was initially subordinated to the Russian Rank Order, then to the Ambassadorial Order according to Great Russia, to the military authorities. It was these regiments that pacified any betrayal in the hetman.

      For more I have no comments. You read historical articles here - ears are wrapped in a tube.

      PS. Although you should know about Rigelman what Kostomarov wrote, then the desire to include him in the list of used literature would be diminished. What kind of anonymous link is there - in general, enchanting.
      1. xan
        xan 2 October 2013 22: 02 New
        0
        Quote: Nikolai S.
        For more I have no comments. You read historical articles here - ears are wrapped in a tube.

        Well, everything under one comb is not necessary, but I agree with respect to this article
        1. Apologet.Ru
          Apologet.Ru 3 October 2013 19: 41 New
          +1
          hi
          I read the article and once again make sure that the story develops in a spiral.
          And what then, what then, what now - the mistakes of the ancestors of the descendants do not teach anything!
          “Do not feed the horse” - neither then, nor later, nor now ...
  2. Letterksi
    Letterksi 2 October 2013 10: 43 New
    +5
    In the history of Russia there have been many civil wars about which we do not know or do not perceive them as such. And most importantly, you can’t sit on two chairs at the same time. It is worth understanding for modern Ukraine. Although, she again has already chosen another convenient EU. How long? The rhetorical question and answer is largely dependent on Russia. Will Russia be able to take advantage of national unified roots or continue Onishchensko-petro-candy policy
    1. bistrov.
      bistrov. 2 October 2013 11: 04 New
      13
      Quote: LetterKsi
      Will Russia be able to take advantage of national unified roots or continue Onishchensko-petro-candy policy

      What do you specifically suggest? How to use common roots? It was necessary to turn a blind eye to how the moneybags of Ukraine stole Russian gas going to the West, and then they resold it and due to this rich people? Or to give Ukraine the Kuban and a piece of Russia, inclusively to Voronezh and Lipetsk, to Ukraine and the Crimea to Donbas? Or, finally, remember that in Ukraine there are about 8 million ethnic Russians who are forcibly Ukrainized, and Russia does not care?
      1. mazepa
        mazepa 2 October 2013 11: 28 New
        -9
        So go to your ethnic homeland. And Kuban, Voronezh, Lipetsk, Belgorod, in my opinion and in Russia, feel good. How do you poorly forcibly Ukrainize you, make official documents in Ukrainian write? Is there no mind to learn a language? What is surprising in the fact that in Ukraine official documents are in Ukrainian? In Russia, in Russian, if you don’t have enough mind to learn Ukrainian, I repeat once again go to Russia. Take the test of knowledge of the Russian language, culture and history and welcome. Poor tortured. They sit at home all day and suffer.
        1. Alekseev
          Alekseev 2 October 2013 17: 21 New
          +5
          Quote: mazepa
          So go to your ethnic homeland.

          Oh you, adviser of horseradish!
          I figured out the "ethnic master" of Ukraine. wassat
          It does not even reach the head that on the territory that the state of Ukraine occupies today is the ethnic homeland of not only "broad" Ukrainians.
          What, for an engineer or a worker who has worked all his life in Dnepropetrovsk or Odessa, where, by the way, their grandfathers and fathers lived, since the time of "Ochakov and the conquest of Crimea", this is not their ethnic homeland?
          And the state language of all of them was known which.
          And they themselves want to think and speak Russian.
          And in many countries of the world, not one state. tongue.
          You write "state documents" in Ukrainian, and do not bother other, the same native inhabitants of the country, to write in Russian.
          1. Sylvester
            Sylvester 3 October 2013 11: 02 New
            -4
            As you read, you are convinced that in Ukraine they beat the face for the Russian language. repeat
      2. Ivan_Ivanov
        Ivan_Ivanov 2 October 2013 12: 37 New
        +3
        bistrov. +

        That's just about "Russia does not give a damn about it" is not worth it. Russia, too, has not endless resources, it does not have enough for everything. 5th Column in Russia, Syria, ... require huge resources; primarily human - specialists, analysts, performers.
        Putin on Valdaet said that Russia and Ukraine are one state, Ukrainians and Lynxes are one people. Let's wait, and "hands" will reach us.
        1. bistrov.
          bistrov. 2 October 2013 13: 33 New
          12
          Quote: Ivan_Ivanov
          Russia also has not infinite resources, it’s not enough for everything.

          You need to turn faster, time is running out. Bandera's people are not asleep, their ideology penetrates to the East, South, Crimea. They disfigure the souls of young, still not strong people with ideas of nationalism and neo-fascism. The neo-fascist organization "Svoboda" received from 3 to 5% of the votes there last year. This is a very disturbing symptom. This must be fought by any means. For example, the Ukrainian oligarch Poroshenko is the owner of Channel 5, which conducts Russophobic propaganda and supports neo-Nazism. At the same time he is the owner of the cond. factories in Voronezh. Why not apply sanctions to him, as FIFA applied to Ukrainian football and stadiums for propaganda of Nazism. Instead, Russian officials make reassuring statements so that he would work calmly, no sanctions will be applied to him.
        2. igorelo
          igorelo 2 October 2013 21: 37 New
          -9
          Ukrainians and Russians have never been one nation, Putin says a lot. Just after 300 years of occupation, Ukraine survived total linguocide and genocide, total Russification
          1. xan
            xan 2 October 2013 22: 07 New
            +7
            Quote: igorelo
            Ukraine survived total linguocide and genocide, total Russification

            as well as a total increase in territory and total industrialization
      3. Sylvester
        Sylvester 3 October 2013 11: 14 New
        -1
        That yes in Gazprom such suckers sit. Some Ukrainian officials bred Gazprom like boys. Do not tell my slippers. laughing
        1. xan
          xan 3 October 2013 21: 55 New
          +2
          Quote: Sylvester
          That yes in Gazprom such suckers sit. Some Ukrainian officials bred Gazprom like boys. Do not tell my slippers. laughing

          bred so that now they are buying the most expensive gas.
          as one wise man said, Russians and Ukrainians like to pretend, but only Russians like to pretend to be fools, and Ukrainians are smart.
          It seems to me that this sage knew Sylvester and some Ukrainian officials.
          1. Alex
            Alex 23 January 2014 13: 35 New
            +2
            Quote: Khan
            bred so that now they are buying the most expensive gas.
            It is true, but there is a difference: they have different profits from gas theft on their personal accounts in Switzerland and in the Caymans, and people pay extra losses from these equipments from their own pockets.
  3. bistrov.
    bistrov. 2 October 2013 12: 03 New
    15
    Quote: mazepa
    So go to your ethnic homeland.

    And you do not tell me what to do, I will figure it out myself. You don’t think that if a drunken Yeltsin has drunk the truly Russian East, South and Crimea to Ukraine, it’s forever. Will not work! As for the Ukrainian language, I know it maybe even better than yours, but I am Russian and will write and speak only in Russian, and whether you like it or not, I don't care. And we will not allow you to make Ukrainians out of Russians by force, just as we will not allow you to distort history and make all sorts of Mazepa, Bandera and Shukhevychs as "heroes".
    1. mazepa
      mazepa 2 October 2013 12: 26 New
      -17
      You forget yourself. Who are you and where are you from. If you think we will respect the rights of those who do not respect the rights of the titular nation, you are deeply mistaken. In Ukraine, where the majority of the population is Ukrainians, they have the right to one state language and the right to their heroes. Mazepa is a traitor for you, but a hero for us, one of the most educated people of his time, who endured Peter and his reforms for decades. The East of Ukraine is a Wild Field, which for many years was like a desert until they began to mine coal, where they sent from the depths of the Republic of Ingushetia criminals and other rabble, which even now manifests itself in all its beauty and pulls Ukraine to the bottom and proof of this is the level of crime, drug addiction, culture and election results. So, we will not allow that part of the population of eastern Ukraine to talk about these territories as our own - sorry, but tired of not calling things by their proper names, that's how it is. The South and the Crimea have never been "yours" either. You are not RI, you are not the USSR, you are not Tatars. Therefore, all conversations on this topic are collaborationist. And officials who touch upon such topics should be punished.
      1. Ivan_Ivanov
        Ivan_Ivanov 2 October 2013 12: 40 New
        19
        ... the right of the titular nation ...


        Traitors and scum were never the titular, and indeed were not a nation.
        1. gyl
          gyl 2 October 2013 14: 16 New
          -13
          Ale, the scoop, Chi forgot that, “The proletariat has no homeland,” it’s not for you to talk about such matters as a nation, honor and pride, go racket cologne ..
      2. bistrov.
        bistrov. 2 October 2013 13: 01 New
        12
        Quote: mazepa
        Mazepa is a traitor for you, but a hero for us

        "Hero" - who stole the Cossack treasury, and black lice eaten him to death. Then the Turks dug him out of the grave and threw him into the Dniester. This is the fate awaiting all your "Svidomo heroes". And we will take Crimea, Donbas, Odessa, Nikolaev sooner or later.
        1. Sylvester
          Sylvester 3 October 2013 11: 24 New
          -3
          It’s not enough for you that you shit and shit, so you still give something that does not belong to you laughing .
          Or is it your escape plan from Ulus Maskvabad.
      3. yankeegohome
        yankeegohome 2 October 2013 13: 04 New
        13
        It remains to tell that during the Second World War it was not the "Young Guard", but the OUN-UPA who pasted leaflets in Krasnodon, and there will be a complete impression that I am on the UP website and watch the discussion of the heirs of the "great ukrov" when their ancestors invented the wheel))) )) Why is there something to stick out your "title"? There are many small-town sites where a lot of things ... are measured by their title
        1. gyl
          gyl 2 October 2013 16: 19 New
          -11
          Her, I add that the whole of Krasnodon and the okrug was approx. forty Germans and 400 Don Cossacks, so they nagged, the “red underground”, and the very activity of the unconditionally brave young guards was initiated by a police provocateur in order to imitate the fight against the underground ...
      4. Rider
        Rider 2 October 2013 13: 18 New
        12
        Quote: mazepa
        Mazepa is a traitor for you, but a hero for us


        as it is symbolic, the traitor has a hero, respectively - a traitor.

        worthy role model.
        Congratulations.
      5. RussianRu
        RussianRu 2 October 2013 16: 11 New
        11
        Mazepa is a traitor for you, but a hero for us

        Choose your own strange heroes. Ok, let Mazepa not be a traitor to you. But he wanted to put Ukraine under Poland. The same thing for Bandera under Germany. And you are a struggle for non-occurrence, a struggle for non-occurrence. They were just looking for a profit for themselves. An educated mazepa miscalculated. And business.
      6. Trapperxnumx
        Trapperxnumx 2 October 2013 16: 18 New
        +7
        Quote: mazepa
        and pulls Ukraine to the bottom

        Is not the east of Ukraine - the main taxpayer and still the main production base of the country? However, if you do not dream of working in your own country, but of making money in plumbers and car washers in Europe, then yes, then the East is really like an eyesore for you ...

        The South and Crimea have never been "yours" either. You are not RI, you are not the USSR,

        The Russian Federation is the official successor of the USSR, we even paid all the debts. As well as part of the debts of the Empire. So be careful with such statements.
        1. gyl
          gyl 2 October 2013 17: 02 New
          -11
          The main payer is Kiev, but the champion in per capita subsidies is Donbass, and there is an example across the Russian-Ukrainian border - East Donbass, Shakhty - coal production died without state subsidies. And with the statements - why are you afraid of you, you won the Ryazan province (Georgia), you didn’t defeat Chechnya, you pay tribute to Chechnya, of course, I’m in a position to shit, but I don’t think better.
          1. Trapperxnumx
            Trapperxnumx 3 October 2013 08: 30 New
            0
            Quote: gyl
            The main payer is Kiev, but the champion in per capita subsidies is Donbass, and there is an example across the Russian-Ukrainian border - East Donbass, Shakhty - coal production died without state subsidies. And with the statements - why are you afraid of you, you won the Ryazan province (Georgia), you didn’t defeat Chechnya, you pay tribute to Chechnya, of course, I’m in a position to shit, but I don’t think better.

            I will surprise you very much, probably, but without state subsidies many industries will easily die, including in your beloved West Europe.
            And they’re not afraid of us. We are peaceful.
  4. Vyalik
    Vyalik 2 October 2013 13: 19 New
    13
    Quote: mazepa
    So, we will not allow that part of the population of eastern Ukraine to speak of these territories as our own - sorry, but tired of not calling things by their proper names, that's how it is. The South and the Crimea have never been "yours" either. You are not RI, you are not the USSR, you are not Tatars.


    Sorry, but these, as you said, "units" have never been Ukrainian. These territories were conquered by Russia and should belong to her. And the fact that Yeltsin and all the mosquitoes were drunk in Pushcha, so the traitors of their people will not be forgiven in this life , nor after death they will burn with an eternal flame in hell. The fact that Russia sells gas to Ukraine at a higher price is our own fault, the "pale with a scythe" offered gas for 250 she herself refused. If we do not need gas more expensive, why do we buy it? There is a lot of wood in the western region, let's cut it down and, as it was said in one film, "and sell it to the British." No one forces us to do this. There is coal in the Donbass, we are transferring heating to coal and all that business. Yes, we will breathe smoke, but our own. Maybe Then the politicians will start thinking not much with their heads, but not in the place where they sit. Otherwise, people come into politics hit on the head, and then the whole people feel bad. And the last question: What do you have against the Tatars?
    1. yankeegohome
      yankeegohome 2 October 2013 13: 27 New
      +9
      The results of the "uselessness" of Russian gas are already evident. The burners glow red and do not heat anything. What will happen in winter is a big question. Still, you see, Yushchenko's dream will come true - to drown with dung. The only question is where to take them - there are no cows either - they did not survive 20 years of independence)))
    2. mazepa
      mazepa 2 October 2013 13: 48 New
      -16
      Not Russia, but RI with the help of the Cossacks, without the Cossacks there would have been a donut hole. Russians, you follow the integrity of the federation that you now have. We ourselves are to blame - the motto of cattle at all times, the people suffer and suffer.
      1. Vyalik
        Vyalik 2 October 2013 17: 45 New
        +6
        Another question. If you do not like Russian and Soviet people, why didn’t you register under your Ukrainian flag, but covered yourself with the flag of the USSR?
        Quote: mazepa
        We ourselves are to blame - the motto of cattle at all times

        I understand that you yourself. Do not measure other people with your standards.
      2. xan
        xan 2 October 2013 22: 22 New
        +1
        Quote: mazepa
        Not Russia, but RI with the help of the Cossacks, without the Cossacks there would have been a donut hole.

        The only real help for the Cossacks is the Pereyaslavl Rada. But Poland was already divided and Novorossia was conquered with Crimea, so it was practically without the help of the Cossacks. All this would have been done without the Pereyaslavl Rada - literally before the war with Napoleon, only army recruits from the central regions of Great Russia were recruited into the army, and from Ukraine not only recruits, not even taxes, were taken.
        Quote: mazepa
        Russians, you follow the integrity of the federation that you now have.

        Svidomo Ukrainians, you have much more problems on this front.
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. The centurion
      2 October 2013 18: 19 New
      -1
      Quote: Wyalik
      Sorry, but these, as you said, "parts" have never been Ukrainian
  5. Chicot 1
    Chicot 1 2 October 2013 13: 38 New
    +9
    Pyotr Alekseevich began to spin "Cossack liberties" almost immediately after his accession to the throne. The reaction of the Cossacks to this was a performance under the leadership of Kondraty Afanasyevich Bulavin. In Soviet historiography (and to this day), along with the major performances of the XNUMXth-XNUMXth centuries, it is called the "peasant war". Although, what have the peasants got to do with it, when the Cossacks were the main organizing and driving force of these uprisings? ..
    The most interesting thing is that one of the possible reasons for Bulavin's speech could be Mazepa. The latter, being in favor with Pyotr Alekseevich, repeatedly repaired obstacles to Kondraty Afanasevich (who at that time held an ataman position in one of the regions of the Army) ... In 1704, Mazepa tried to seize the Bakhmut salt mines belonging to the Donetsk residents. By his order several Cossack towns were ravaged. Bulavin also stood up for their defense ...
    In October of the following year, the state (in other words, Tsar Peter) introduced a state monopoly on the extraction and trade of salt ... There is no direct evidence that this was done with the explicit assistance of Mazepa. But personally, I would not rule out such an opportunity ...

    He is such a "guardian and fighter for Cossack rights and liberties" under the name Ivan Stepanovich Mazepa (Kaledinsky) ...

    And then - a completely natural ending - who betrayed his (Cossacks), he betrayed the sovereign who warmed him (Peter). And it was done exactly at one of the most difficult moments for him ... Surely he would have betrayed the "sveisk" Karl, but he did not have time due to the fatal outcome ...
    So it is not for nothing that the name "Mazepa" has become synonymous with the concept of "betrayal" along with "Judas". And the "Order of Judas" itself was appropriated to him by right (it is a pity that it was not awarded!). Only it was necessary to appropriate it back in 1704 ...
  6. URAL72
    URAL72 2 October 2013 14: 59 New
    11
    Quote: mazepa
    mazepa

    mazepa! Most Ukrainians speak Russian and surzhik, and you, Banderlohs, do not consider such Ukrainians. I am fluent in Ukrainian, but after 2005 I don’t use it in principle, I refuse interesting vacancies if they require the use of a semi-Polish language. I do not support the communists, but in principle I vote only for them, since they are for the reunification of the Slavs and against the Banderlochs. Today my biggest dream is the civil war in Ukraine. This is the only way we can put an end to this useless dispute. If it starts, I hope we will meet with you.
    Sincerely your enemy, a graduate of the Odessa Disciplinary Battalion.
    1. gyl
      gyl 2 October 2013 16: 22 New
      -16
      Damn, dear, and I don’t know Ukrainian, but if you’re an instigator, then you’re a worthless soldier from you. It was decided, I will fight on the side, Svidomo ,, one, at least for a decent army.
      1. Vyalik
        Vyalik 2 October 2013 17: 53 New
        +3
        If a person served in a disbath, this does not mean that he is bad or good. I have not been to the disciplinary battalion and I advise you to meet me in battle.
        1. gyl
          gyl 2 October 2013 19: 57 New
          -5
          So, I spend the right hook - the opponent on the floor!
          1. Rider
            Rider 2 October 2013 20: 04 New
            +1
            Quote: gyl
            So, I spend the right hook - the opponent on the floor!


            nuuu bliiiinn

            another internet mike tyson.
            instead of dealing with virtual hooks, you figured out why your guarantor takes all the Gypsies from Europe to Nenko.
            All Roma from the European Union will be resettled to Ukraine

            http://oko-planet.su/oko-planet/politik/politwar/212624-yezzz-na-ukrainu-peresel
            yat-vseh-cygan-iz-evrosoyuza.html
            1. gyl
              gyl 3 October 2013 00: 55 New
              -3
              just kidding, finally, in response to the threats of forum boxers, and I see no reason to discuss nonsense about gypsies, gays and Martians.
          2. Vyalik
            Vyalik 3 October 2013 13: 32 New
            0
            If I happen to meet, I will answer in a worker-peasant manner.
            1. gyl
              gyl 4 October 2013 09: 41 New
              0
              is it in a kneeling position?
  7. moskov1
    moskov1 2 October 2013 15: 39 New
    0
    the bright one is really good. Mazepinets is unfriendly. to be afraid that he didn’t go to Glukhov, because he didn’t die with impunity; he needs to be wheeled. the people shudder. the deceased’s ardor pierces them with horror. they’ve got used to the fact that even the most fury falls silent before the deceased. The corpse of the bone is dragged. The frost is breathing in the heart on the backs. He can’t escape the death penalty. BATURIN.
    1. xan
      xan 2 October 2013 22: 31 New
      +1
      Peter is certainly a cool person, but why the hell was Kochubey and Spark executed? They did not change, but only slandered. Well, I would have sent to Siberia with my families, after the betrayal of Mazepa I returned - there would have been no more loyal people for him.
      What the hell is this bloody determination?
      Well, at least the property was returned to the Kochubey family
      1. Sylvester
        Sylvester 3 October 2013 12: 04 New
        -2
        Kuchyubey and Iskrov were not executed by anyone. winked For less read the nonsense of those who rusty communism ate the brain.
  8. smiths xnumx
    smiths xnumx 2 October 2013 15: 45 New
    +7
    "Hetman Doroshenko became especially famous in this disgusting thirtieth birthday ... he offered to annex Ukraine to Turkey, and when even the nearest foreman could not resist and asked:
    "- Daddy, you sho, zihav gluzdu?! ..", - he explained:
    "- If you join Ukraine to a consanguineous, one-believing, single-lingual Russia, then very soon it will completely merge with it - and will not need either a separate hetman or a separate foreman. - then it will forever remain separate and will always need independent rulers ... "
    So, our current rulers (Wasserman continues) are acting according to the recipe of Hetman Doroshenko ... "
    http://archive.censor.net.ua/go/viewTopic--id--333737
    1. BBM
      BBM 2 October 2013 17: 14 New
      -8
      another Jewish fairy tale. quoted by another near-by Ukrainophobe.
      Perhaps the only fault of the Zaporozhian Cossacks was that they refused to support both Mazepa (the ardent licking of Petruha and the oppressor of Ukrainian settlement) and getting involved in this completely senseless war for them on the side of the Moscow Tsar. Well, what kind of idiots had to be stacked with bones in the battle for serfdom and the Russian landowners. Mazepa, by the way, was also, in fact, a Russian landowner - generously endowed with rooster lands and serfs.
      1. smiths xnumx
        smiths xnumx 2 October 2013 17: 24 New
        +9
        For twenty-one years of rule (1687–1708) Mazepa did not find special popular love. Like his predecessor, he generously handed out hereditary possession of land, villages and villages - along with the peasants, of course. And he even introduced the “universal” of 1701, an obligatory weekly two-day corvee, even for those peasants who lived on their own land and were not listed under any landowner. Even the “father of independence”, Professor Grushevsky, an apologist for Mazepa, was forced to admit:
        “Of course, this new corvée was terribly exciting for the peasantry, who still had fresh memories of the times without landowners, when it ruled on free land. Bitter anger rose in him to the foreman, who so deftly and quickly managed to take him into submission. People were particularly angry with the hetman Mazepa, suspecting that he, the gentry and the "Pole", as he was called, tried to establish Polish pans in Ukraine. With great suspicion the people treated all the undertakings of him and the foreman. ”

        Such a paradox: in Poland, Mazepa was considered a “Cossack”, and in his homeland a “damn fuck" ... Grushevsky, a great master of focusing with real history, tried to justify his hero by the fact that Mazepa dewill carried out "secret orders of Moscow" in his own way the villainous habit of striving to destroy all Ukrainian liberties. However, this is bad luck, the decree of Peter of 1693 of exactly the opposite content was preserved in the archives of the College of Little Russian Affairs: the tsar orders the hetman to "oversee the Little Russian landowners, to keep them from cruelty, extortion, and superfluous work." This hetman hid the decree away and pretended to be as if he were not there. Mazepa’s orders were preserved regarding how to deal with those peasants who are trying to resist enslavement, or even run to Muscovy: to catch, whip with whips, and hang up if necessary ...
      2. xan
        xan 2 October 2013 22: 36 New
        +3
        Quote: BBM
        Well, what kind of idiots had to be stacked with bones in the battle for serfdom and the Russian landowners.

        Right! It was necessary to sit on the priest evenly and wait for the return of Polish serfdom, where the peasant could be killed, unlike the Russian one.
    2. BBM
      BBM 2 October 2013 19: 19 New
      +2
      Quote: smiths xnumx
      so, our current rulers (continues Wasserman) are acting according to the prescription of Hetman Doroshenko ...
      Yes, he says a lot of things:
      for example.

      Now Anatoly Chubais says that the main goal of voucherization has been achieved - private property has appeared. At the time of privatization, I also believed that private property would help us.(and how all the advanced people of that time sucked on your idol Stalin) Since then I have noticeably wiser, which is what I wish for Chubais.

      Now I have come to the conclusion that in the near future, and specifically from 2020, socialism will become, without exception, more profitable than capitalism. My colleagues and I are now working on a little of the issues that arise during the transition again to socialism, and we are going to find ways to make a safe and painless transition. It is clear that there are such ways, but they still need to be worked out. Moreover, I do not exclude that
      Chubais, known as a highly executive person, will organize this transition to socialism in the same way that he once organized the transition to capitalism (that is, he will continue to successfully breed robotic goys for the benefit of us all Wasserman should have told)


      By the way, if you are not stupid you should understand that Wasserman is a pseudonym and even a minimal knowledge of German should be enough to understand what it means.
      1. smiths xnumx
        smiths xnumx 2 October 2013 19: 36 New
        +8
        Personally, it doesn’t matter to me who the person is by nationality, the main thing is that he works for the good of my Motherland and, sorry, don’t poop where he lives. As for Wasserman, I can give you many other examples of people of this nationality whom I’m ready to vote for with both hands, the same Levitan, Zhores Ivanovich Alferov, Vitaliy Lazarevich Ginzburg, thousands of them ... And as for the Ukrainians, field marshals Gudovich, Paskevich , Kozhedub, Kovpak and many others, their names in GOLDEN LETTERS inscribed in the annals of our common history. And Judas and traitors like Mazepa, Bandera, Vlasov, Shlyukhevych, Chubais, Yeltsin and other prostitutes, and so their reward ...
        1. xan
          xan 2 October 2013 22: 41 New
          +2
          Quote: Kuznetsov 1977
          And, with regards to Ukrainians, field marshals Gudovich, Paskevich, Kozhedub, Kovpak and many others, their names are written in GOLDEN LETTERS in the annals of our common history

          The legend of the white movement, General Drozdovsky, was from a family of Poltava landowners. During the revolution, practically all the nobility from Ukraine was for "one and indivisible"
  9. moskov1
    moskov1 2 October 2013 15: 53 New
    0
    Kozaki stood on the square under guard. There were a lot of eminent babies among them. Porubians were split in torn shirts. The soldiers took off their boots. Peter brought me Mishka. Hang and someone could chop heads and I need a good master here. Therefore, it’s not the mob but educated people. They knew what it was to change the KING.
  10. moskov1
    moskov1 2 October 2013 16: 12 New
    -1
    it is necessary to punish them according to rank and merit. now the mouse he will come running an artist. The youngest to cut off his ears and noses. To break his hands. To attach them to the boards and put them on the river Diet. They’ll hang the elder pozdyrats and let them go to the Sejm. Let them swim in the open spaces of the restless kraini. It would be desirable to want to rebel amnother. BATURIN.
  11. rocketman
    rocketman 2 October 2013 17: 53 New
    +2
    Quote: URAL72
    Today my biggest dream is a civil war in Ukraine

    moron.
    1. xan
      xan 2 October 2013 22: 45 New
      +2
      Quote: rocketman
      moron.

      no!
      this is one of those who got svidomye with their implanted Ukrainians and fictitious history, where the Russians are completely oppressors and other prohibited moderator
      1. gyl
        gyl 3 October 2013 01: 04 New
        -2
        Not, but there’s a choice if they got it - with things to go, as in Chechnya, Dagestan with Ingushetia and other Turkestans. Now they’re pushing in Kazakhstan, and there’s no way to yell - it’s Russian land, bloodshed and then ! the scanty part of the Savets people whimpers only in Ukraine and the Baltic states, they want the return of Soviet rudeness, but you can’t lure them into the homeland of this rudeness.
        1. xan
          xan 3 October 2013 20: 31 New
          0
          Quote: gyl
          No, but there’s a choice if they got it - with things to go

          Yes, it’s clear, but you leave the stranger stupid.
          the main task of Svidomo-to save what went free then.
          for this you want anywhere and with anyone, if only to be away from Russia. But this is shish! We are near, and we are not afraid of those under whom you seek to kill. The problem is not closed, and with your impoverishment it is more and more acute.
          1. gyl
            gyl 4 October 2013 09: 45 New
            -1
            So, it should be understood that with the extermination of the Christian population in Chechnya, Ingushetia, Dagestan, Abkhazia, Turkestan and other allies, you agree, we, Svidomo left to pick up, and there will be a universal caliphate.
  12. rocketman
    rocketman 2 October 2013 17: 56 New
    +4
    "Damn, dear, and I do not know Ukrainian, but if you are a disbatcher, then you are a shitty fighter. It was decided that I will fight on the side of ,, Svidomo," for a decent army. "

    same clinic. And who told you what a decent army is? Taki do not need to do all those present nerves ...
    1. gyl
      gyl 2 October 2013 20: 06 New
      -4
      I sincerely apologize, so I decided to alternatively think about trolling on the verge of a foul, it turned out silly ...
      1. xan
        xan 2 October 2013 22: 48 New
        +2
        Quote: gyl
        so he decided to think alternatively of thinking on the verge of a foul, it turned out silly.

        stupid troll
        1. gyl
          gyl 3 October 2013 01: 07 New
          -3
          Well, not without it, I’ve stupid that, in principle, I got involved in a discussion with underexposed.
  13. BBM
    BBM 2 October 2013 18: 09 New
    -5
    Quote: Chicot 1
    In October of the following year, the state (in other words, Tsar Peter) introduced a state monopoly on the extraction and trade of salt ... There is no direct evidence that this was done with the explicit assistance of Mazepa. But personally, I would not rule out such an opportunity ...

    so about the speech that rooster and mazepa two boots a pair. Two geeks of whom now for various reasons are sculpting heroes.
    1. Chicot 1
      Chicot 1 2 October 2013 20: 49 New
      +4
      I can answer only one thing - when there is nothing to say in essence, modeling of labels begins ...
      I will not put a minus. They have already been delivered without me ...
      1. BBM
        BBM 2 October 2013 21: 02 New
        -2
        and what is wrong? or maybe we’ll say frankly that I’m wrong and the unbalanced psycho who killed his own son, personally acted as an executioner and more than once. Sentenced out of jealousy a mistress for execution and against the background of which even Rasputin might seem like a decent person, not a geek? it's all about parsley first if you do not understand and decided to pretend to be a fool. or maybe I'm telling a lie?
        1. xan
          xan 2 October 2013 22: 57 New
          +3
          Quote: BBM
          it's all about parsley first if you do not understand and decided to pretend to be a fool. or maybe I'm telling a lie?

          you learn something about the personalities of the authorities of that time, you will be surprised that Peter is not an outstanding personality among his contemporaries. Unlike the same European hero Charles 12, who left Sweden without men and without money, he left Russia an empire, with access to the sea and with a huge prospect, which was subsequently realized.
          1. gyl
            gyl 3 October 2013 01: 30 New
            -1
            Khan, well, at least read some books, at least sometimes - the Swedish kings waged wars in Europe for centuries at the expense of Europeans. Gustav Vasa formulated the question - war feeds the war, i.e. the Swedish army wandered around Europe for decades, where it was robbed, where it received subsidies from the ally, or you think that the grain-purchasing Sweden sent them crackers ... it’s also interesting with the men, because the Swedish parliament constantly tried to prevent the army from returning home , there were going to excellent daredevils, which were difficult to adapt to the Swedish business - the heavy industry of those times, the production of iron, steel and cast iron, of which the Swedes smelted more than half in all of Europe. That left the little one - reduced by a third I am a population, an enslaved peasantry, embittered allies - Cossacks, which resulted in a number of major riots - Bulavin, Mazepa, Pugachev, Bashkirs and Kalmyks, which ultimately caused a series of bloody revolutions and civil wars, as a result of which RI was covered, and Russia today balancing over the precipice. Yes, the little one brought in the so-called cargo cult - mindless mechanical copying of Western institutions, in Russian conditions that were unnecessary and often harmful, like the famous fleet, which had decayed even under it, since the Europeans started the fleet after navigation, and paid for it with profits from trade, and the little one he brought in a toy from Neher to do it, and the whole country kept the fleet. Somewhere like that
            1. xan
              xan 3 October 2013 21: 46 New
              0
              Quote: gyl
              Khan, well, at least read some books, at least sometimes - Swedish kings waged wars in Europe for centuries at the expense of Europeans

              a bad attempt to look not even smart, but well-read. I wrote specifically about Charles 12, and not about the Swedish kings.
              Quote: gyl
              What the peter left - a third of the declining population, enslaved peasantry, embittered allies - Cossacks, which resulted in a number of major riots - Bulavin, Mazepa, Pugachev, Bashkirs and Kalmyks, which ultimately caused a series of bloody revolutions and civil wars, as a result of which RI covered herself

              People mixed up in a heap of horses; an attempt to not draw conclusions and analyze failed.
              Quote: gyl
              more Europeans started a fleet after navigation, and paid for it with profits from trade, and a little girl got a toy from Neher to do, and the whole country kept the fleet. Somewhere like that

              It’s even inconvenient to argue how to argue with a child.
              The entire post and reasoning of the Ukrainian show why the empire was created by Russians, not Ukrainians. The mentality is clear, the fate of the country with such citizens is vague and, to put it mildly, unpromising.
  14. kaktus
    kaktus 2 October 2013 19: 25 New
    +2
    grown men, you still compete, who further ... spit
  15. Cossack23
    Cossack23 2 October 2013 19: 31 New
    +2
    I’ll tell you so brothers all that Russia had before the age of 17 was a merit of a purely Cossack, but traitors always watered us with dirt and they destroyed us in 20-30gg, these same creatures killed the country and in 91g they are now watered and pretend that they are reviving but they will never give power to us neither the Cossacks nor the people
    1. Rider
      Rider 2 October 2013 19: 47 New
      +3
      Quote: Cossack23
      I’ll tell you so, all that Russia had before 17 was a merit purely Cossack


      no one belittles the merits of the Cossacks before the fatherland, but by pulling the blanket over yourself, you belittle the contribution of other peoples to the formation of Russia.
      1. Cossack23
        Cossack23 2 October 2013 22: 28 New
        +1
        such peoples as Permyaks or Yakuts Kalmyks of the Baltic states they faithfully served Russia and who they are now and who are Chechens and where is the truth. I carefully read the history of Russia and the Cossacks is not a highlight - this is a generalization
      2. gyl
        gyl 3 October 2013 02: 01 New
        -2
        you see who the Cossacks are. This is not only the Cossacks, Donchaks, Tertsy, Kuban and Egg. These are Kalmyks, Bashkirs, and some Ossetians, and Buryats, some Nogais, and many Cossack troops of all kinds, some did not speak Russian and were not Orthodox ..
    2. gyl
      gyl 3 October 2013 01: 54 New
      -3
      I confirm that, moreover, Petya, having quarreled with the Cossacks, and the Donchaks, and the Bashkirs, and the Kalmyks, and the Cossacks-Getmans, was forced instead of a free irregular Cossack army to start a type of European permanent, with recruitment, shagistika and drill, terribly expensive at that time. near Poltava, it only demonstrates the low combat efficiency of the serf army - having twice the numerical superiority, they are fully armed with firearms, having a hundred barrels of artillery supported by Cossacks - Kalmyks, Bashkirs and Astyu Ukrainians, Petka promised privileges to all of them, and Ukrainians, for example, only enslaved Katka-2, the tsarist troops settled in earth-wood fortifications without risking attacking the Swedes. In the army of the Swedes, only a third were armed with gunshot, there was no artillery, as was gunpowder, but the Swedes bravely attacked the redoubts, took several of them under fire, and only failure with the king shook their spirit. But, pay attention, from Poltava (1709) to the end of the war -1721 there weren’t much battles, the Swedes controlled the Baltic, there wasn’t much sense from access to the sea, a couple of collisions like Gangut - well, the tsarists took a couple of small Swedish ships in calm abortion using row boats near the coast. In short, the same Cossacks completed the war, crossing the ice of the Gulf of Bothnia in winter, they avoided clashes with the Swedish army, but they actively burned the vicinity of Stockholm, slept in snowdrifts when it was hot. RI paid all the Cossacks the same thing: the Kalmyks and Bashkirs were cut out by Suvorov, Donetsk and Yaitsky were tamed, the Cossacks fled to the Turks, then returned to the Kuban and were cut with the Circassians, their distant relatives for another 150 years, Terek also chopped in Chechnya and Dagestan to the glory of “Russian weapons”, but the reincarnation of the Republic of Ingushetia - the USSR finished the Cossacks completely, and no Kuban Cossacks could conceal this fact.
      1. xan
        xan 3 October 2013 22: 59 New
        +1
        Quote: gyl
        I confirm that Bo Petya, having quarreled with the Cossacks - the Donchaks, and the Bashkirs, and the Kalmyks, and the Cossacks-Hetmans, was forced instead of a free irregular Cossack army to start a type of European permanent

        Do not write comments on historical topics, ridiculous already. You have five classes of a Russian school, or alternative Tajik education, may Tajiks forgive me.
        Only the first line of the Russian army took part in the Battle of Poltava - half the troops. And the cavalry participated in the capture of the Swedes the next day. For example, in the mother of the Poltava victory, the battle of Lesnoy was equally divided between the Russians and the Swedes, the Swedes pissed off the convoy and barely took their feet.
        The Cossacks did not win one war, they are not Russian allies, but subjects of the empire. Cossacks are good as light cavalry, but the backbone of any army of that time is infantry.
        Quote: gyl
        In short, the same Cossacks completed the war

        The war did not end because of the interests of European diplomacy and the stubbornness of the Swedish rulers. Peter did not need the complete defeat of Sweden and the capture of Stockholm because of the danger of the emergence of a European anti-Russian union.
        War and diplomacy, this is not poker. Sometimes you don’t know how to finish, so as not to get involved in the next. Peter solved all diplomatic and military issues. If you fantasize, you can compare approximately with the fact that in 20 years a country will appear somewhere in Africa, in military and economic power it is comparable with the United States, China, Russia and Europe. That’s all the grandees of that time, and went crazy when Petrovsky fusiliers with dragoons broke into Northern Europe and drove the first-rate Swedish fighters as hares. It’s almost as if now in Africa the French got full and final lyule or, say, the British, so that they were left almost without men and money, and the Americans, Chinese, Russians and other Europeans suddenly realized that now there is nothing to solve without blacks.
        I leave the rest of the verbal diarrhea gyla without comment,
        My post for members of the forum, the most gyl, I consider it a hopeless roundabout ballab for beer. Sometimes I am also in shock, but I need to know the measure.
        1. gyl
          gyl 4 October 2013 10: 04 New
          -1
          From the Russian-language, extremely complimentary for Russian patriots Wikipedia == ,, Directly in the Battle of Poltava, about 8000 infantry (18 battalions), 7800 cavalry (14 cavalry regiments and the corps of drabant = 109 squadrons) and about a thousand irregular cavalry (Wallachians) took part. = these are Swedes. That’s less than 17 thousand troops.
          The Russian army totaled, according to various sources, from 60 thousand soldiers [1] to 80 thousand soldiers [3].
          Directly in the Battle of Poltava, 25 thousand foot soldiers participated, some of which, even while on the field, did not take part in the battle. Russian cavalry was about 21 thousand sabers [16]. In addition, from the Russian side a small detachment of Kalmyks participated in the battle. This is -46 thousand, plus Kalmyks - up to 9 thousand, the most combat-ready Russian troops. ,, == Together - 55 thousand , the ratio is more than 3,2 in favor of Peter. Not, well, the Swedes are arrogant, and the beats are justified, but to attack an enemy that has surpassed them, without the support of artillery, yes, we sing glory to the madness of the brave ... But finally, it’s boring for me, with you, shkolota, to communicate, basic knowledge then have treba, chi cheeks again?






          '
          1. xan
            xan 4 October 2013 10: 30 New
            0
            Quote: gyl
            Together - 55 thousand , the ratio is more than 3,2 in favor of Peter.

            do you read what you write? What does the total number have to do with it, if half of the Russians did not participate in the battle?
            But what about the battle of Lesnaya? There were even fewer Russians there, but it didn’t help the Swedes - the convoy was left to the Russians to supply the main army and barely took their feet. You are not going to comment on this uncomfortable battle for you from the height of your intellect.
            You merge, Ukrainian
            Quote: gyl
            And finally, it’s boring for me, with you, shkolota, to communicate, basic knowledge, then at least some kind of need is required, will we again blow up our cheeks?

            Verbiage, cleverness, cheap pathos and basic knowledge do not help when there are no brains. Do not feed the horse.
  16. igorelo
    igorelo 2 October 2013 21: 32 New
    -3
    No one has ever Ukrainized Russians in Ukraine, no one has banned the Russian language.
    Quote: bistrov.
    Quote: LetterKsi
    Will Russia be able to take advantage of national unified roots or continue Onishchensko-petro-candy policy

    What do you specifically suggest? How to use common roots? It was necessary to turn a blind eye to how the moneybags of Ukraine stole Russian gas going to the West, and then they resold it and due to this rich people? Or to give Ukraine the Kuban and a piece of Russia, inclusively to Voronezh and Lipetsk, to Ukraine and the Crimea to Donbas? Or, finally, remember that in Ukraine there are about 8 million ethnic Russians who are forcibly Ukrainized, and Russia does not care?
    1. xan
      xan 2 October 2013 23: 01 New
      +1
      Quote: igorelo
      No one has ever Ukrainized Russians in Ukraine, no one has banned the Russian language.

      they were simply told that Russian is a stupid rogue who doesn’t know anything and further in the text and further on the history of Ukraine with the heroes Mazepa and Shukhevych.
      And the Russians in Ukraine must agree with this
  17. bublic82009
    bublic82009 2 October 2013 23: 05 New
    -5
    No wonder the Cossacks were persecuted in Soviet Russia. in the history of the Russian Empire, the USSR more than once the Cossacks (or rather their top) tried to change their master. Cossacks are essentially professional hirelings. and those tales that they invent for themselves - about fidelity to the Russian tsar and the state no more than tales.
  18. VadimSt
    VadimSt 2 October 2013 23: 30 New
    +1
    Good picture! The frontal place has repeatedly proved to be the last argument for the defense of statehood, and now, it would be in demand for Serdyukovism.
  19. Smoke
    Smoke 3 October 2013 00: 03 New
    +2
    But Svidomo will have to select a republic somewhere in the region of Kolyma and Indigirka, I think it’s time to compile lists of Svidomo so that later it would be easier to pick up. Let the bastards work and work and participate in the extraction of oil gas diamonds - I think they will immediately find the gas price quite adequate.
    1. gyl
      gyl 3 October 2013 02: 13 New
      -4
      This is how Ukrainians work all over Siberia and Dal. In the East, it’s impossible to rely on you, the NKVD informer, except for drawing up execution lists, unconscious, so real and without oil and without gas and diamonds there will remain a sluggish Russ .In Primorye, there is a purely Ukrainian huge region, the Green Wedge, there are still seaside guerrillas operating, our people, Bandera, urine rubbish.
      1. Smoke
        Smoke 3 October 2013 07: 20 New
        +3
        I myself am one of those places and I have something to do with crafts, and if I had been a snitch for life I would not have worked here for a long time) you say the Green wedge in Primorye, so the places are almost resort there)) So it’s necessary to make raster lists so that such as you irresponsible and irresponsible power and the Russian people did not destroy, okay? In general, by what kind of human and divine laws do you put monuments to all kinds of scum like Bandera Shukhevych, hold parades? They autrian German loot then worked off the American ... In general, I recommend to fill up your svidomit bakery
        1. gyl
          gyl 4 October 2013 00: 28 New
          +1
          the informers made the execution lists, the spiritual need and the liveliest need they have in life. But how else can they earn a living for ignoramuses and stupid people? What ignoramuses and clueless people - let all sorts of nonsense post for Austrian, German, American loot - remember, there are no pockets in the coffin to go to death for a pittance ... But you poor, shining like an X-ray, as soon as we talk about loot , you see, other values ​​are not enough for you. Tell me, what kind of backstage paid to the Primorsky partisans, their suicidal, doomed to defeat and defeat, rebellion?
  20. ddmm09
    ddmm09 3 October 2013 04: 56 New
    +2
    Quote: bublic82009
    No wonder the Cossacks were persecuted in Soviet Russia. in the history of the Russian Empire, the USSR more than once the Cossacks (or rather their top) tried to change their master. Cossacks are essentially professional hirelings. and those tales that they invent for themselves - about fidelity to the Russian tsar and the state no more than tales.

    Cossacks, I repeat, are part of our Russian history. In simple terms, before people had several other values, which for that time were an urgent need! Do you understand the meaning of the word freedom ?! They highly valued their personal freedom and it was precisely this circumstance that was crucial in the events taking place in that era. They sometimes did not have unity, since they were not statesmen in the full sense of the word and so on (low awareness, distortion and free interpretation of events, betrayal, the influence of foreigners, bribery, slander, and much more). Of course, in such circumstances, adhering to one's ideals is not easy, sometimes the personal ambitions of one person as a result cast a shadow over the entire estate. A lot of similar examples in recent history - nothing has changed. We just know very little about the Cossack culture of that time, it so happened that they did not bother writing any documents for posterity.
    And, most importantly, then there was no Internet, so that you could convey your thoughts and ideas to everyone and explain everything in detail in time !!! :)
  21. Cossack23
    Cossack23 3 October 2013 23: 15 New
    0
    Quote: xan
    The Cossacks did not win one war, they are not Russian allies, but subjects of the empire. Cossacks are good as light cavalry, but the backbone of any army of that time is infantry.

    These are the most correct words about the Cossacks. Cossacks are one of the first peoples (even under Dmitry Donskoy) who swore allegiance to the Tsar and Russia, and we REMEMBER the oath.
  22. xomaNN
    xomaNN 4 October 2013 20: 38 New
    0
    Mazepov's treason cost dearly not only Peter's Russia. And the Cossacks were deceived at Poltava. And Baturin Menshikov razed to the ground. Here in 2009, with a great lover through the word to use "any friends" and "nation" Yushenko In Baturyn they erected this cross and a wooden fortress - "remake". Looks solid. Was there last year.
  23. Stasi
    Stasi 5 October 2013 15: 23 New
    +1
    Mazepa is not so simple. It is worth taking a look at some points of his betrayal. The first one. Denunciation to Peter was repeatedly written to Mazepa in which they spoke of treason, but Peter invariably rejected these denunciations, and gave the informers themselves to Mazepa. And this despite the fact that Peter himself was very suspicious and steep at reprisals, the slightest suspicion of infidelity for anyone turned into the dungeons of the Secret Chancellery. The second one. Having sided with Karl of the Twelfth Mazepa, he managed to convince him to move troops to Ukraine near Poltava, promising to raise an uprising against Peter, striking the Russian army in the rear. Meanwhile, the Swedes had the opportunity to go directly to Moscow, if this happened and Peter had no choice but to admit defeat, and Karl would implement his program to destroy Russia as a state. And near Poltava, Russian troops had more advantageous positions than the Swedish, and Mazepa did not raise any uprising. All this makes us wonder - was not Mazepa not the traitor, but the secret agent of Peter the Great, whose task was to gain confidence in the Swedes and contribute to their defeat?
  24. Pehmore
    Pehmore 6 October 2013 20: 27 New
    +1
    Brothers Slavs to the joy of whom are you here to dog? We must respect each other without even seeing our faces. And impunity does not give the right to insult someone’s homeland.