Military Review

Service promotion

36
The Ministry of Defense has recently been concerned about how to draw attention to the contract service. Today, the number of contract soldiers in the army is not enough for its complete set, and plans to attract military personnel who wish to conclude a contract are being implemented with varying success.
One of the initiatives to increase the number of contract soldiers in the army is related to providing graduates of Russian universities with the opportunity to enter into a contract with the Ministry of Defense for a period of two years. In this case, the graduate will receive a salary at the level of 30-35 thousand rubles and the right to live where he sees fit (not necessarily in the barracks). If he wants to terminate the contract, he will have to serve as a conscript, based on the ratio of "1 call service day for 2 contract service day". Example: if a contractor has served a year, after which he terminates the contract, he will have to serve another six months as an ordinary conscript.
Service promotion

The Ministry of Defense is trying to attract potential conscripts to military service. For this, in particular, outsourcing was introduced. Today wet cleaning conscripts spend in the barracks, but invited civilian specialists work in canteens, on commercial areas, in car parks. They cook food, fix appliances, do laundry.
Such a principle discourages people of the older and middle generation. People who are accustomed to consider the army a school of life are wondering how a soldier who is repairing a military vehicle, infantry fighting vehicles or erasing his things can be completely combat-ready.
The Ministry of Defense has a different argument. Its representatives say that outsourcing allows recruits to carry out their direct duties, devoting proper time to martial and combat training, and acquisition of skills weapons. In field conditions, soldiers and equipment are repaired, and porridge is cooked by themselves. Only sometimes such technicians and cooks have to choose, literally poking at the first soldier who had absolutely no practice in this matter.
On the one hand, outsourcing is not a bad thing, because it allows a soldier to forget about distractions unusual for modern service, but on the other hand, outsourcing sometimes leads to a corruption plane. The Ministry of Defense needs to take this into account and modernize the existing system, which has not yet been completely formed.
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  1. silver_roman
    silver_roman 30 September 2013 18: 33
    18
    the option with this "outsourcing" is somehow controversial - a stupid word.
    It is interesting how Prokhorovka would look if all 34 were repaired not by soldiers, but by incomprehensible civilian personnel. Likely losses in the tank troops would be much more deplorable!
    Okay, there already repairing the engine on the battlefield is not an easy task, but they should be able to put on the tracks.
    1. Civil
      Civil 30 September 2013 19: 33
      15
      Society needs to be treated, the army is only part of it ...
      1. self-propelled
        self-propelled 30 September 2013 19: 53
        +9
        The Ministry of Defense has recently been concerned about how to draw attention to the contract service.

        military service is work (yes, dangerous, responsible and not easy). so create, first of all, decent conditions for doing this workso that the soldier feels socially protected (decent salary, housing, etc.).
        and it is also necessary to return to the "Soviet past" - DOSAAF (exactly in the form in which it was under the Soviet Union), which was engaged in the propaganda of the army, prepared teenagers for military service, etc. Of course, this requires a lot of money, but you yourself understand that you should not save on security ...
        1. Cat
          Cat 30 September 2013 20: 04
          +5
          Quote: self-propelled
          serving in the army is a job (yes, dangerous, responsible and difficult). so create, first of all, decent conditions for doing this work, so that the serviceman feels socially protected (decent salary, housing, etc.). and it is also necessary to return to the "Soviet past" - DOSAAF (exactly in the form in which it was under the Soviet Union), which was engaged in the propaganda of the army, prepared teenagers for military service, etc. Of course, this requires a lot of money, but you yourself understand that you should not save on security ...

          Those in power are not idiots, they all perfectly understand. In particular, they understand perfectly well that it is one thing - when people take to the streets who know which side to take the machine gun from, how to stop a tank or a police armored personnel carrier, how to storm the mail, telephone, telegraph, and so on; and quite another - when to blame the snickering "elite" will come out office inmates, WoT heroes, and other elves of the 80th lvl. And it is precisely these considerations that the authorities are guided by when allocating money for the army, weapons, and the education of young people.
          Such is the party’s policy at this stage =)
          1. self-propelled
            self-propelled 30 September 2013 20: 28
            +3
            Quote: Cat
            and quite another thing - when to blame the snickering "elite" will come out office inmates, WoT heroes, and other elves of the 80th lvl

            the fact of the matter is that all sorts of "heroes" of computer shooters, imagining themselves super-duper special forces, taking dad's "Saiga", arrange a massacre in schools, parks, shops ... training, never use a weapon against an unarmed one!
            and the fact that those in power are afraid of retribution - they themselves are to blame, are too fat. and people don’t give a damn! angry
            1. Ruslan67
              Ruslan67 1 October 2013 02: 20
              +1
              Quote: self-propelled
              .. a person who has passed (figuratively speaking a little, I hope to understand) the correct training, never uses a weapon against an unarmed one!

              I will not shoot request But I’ll put it so that it’s better to shoot laughing
          2. Apologet.Ru
            Apologet.Ru 30 September 2013 23: 02
            +1
            hi
            Today, the number of contract soldiers in the army is not enough to fully equip it, and plans to attract military personnel who want to sign a contract are being implemented with varying success.


            No comment ...
        2. novobranets
          novobranets 30 September 2013 20: 36
          +6
          Quote: self-propelled
          it is necessary to return to the "Soviet past" - DOSAAF

          There was a powerful organization, the sun received almost ready specialists. In some clubs, it was not so easy to get there. soldier
      2. S_mirnov
        S_mirnov 30 September 2013 19: 56
        +7
        Quote: Civil
        Society needs to be treated, the army is only part of it ...

        Look at the root, Well done!
        And outsourcing affects those who want to seem smart, but actually stupid. The experience of the First World War has already shown what will happen if army shells are sold commerce, but the lesson is not learned!
        1. self-propelled
          self-propelled 30 September 2013 20: 04
          +2
          Quote: S_mirnov
          And outsourcing is sick for those who want to seem smart, but really stupid

          I would like to look at the work of all these "civilians" in the front line recourse. scatter like cockroaches (if at all go there) at the very first hype ... request
      3. Botanologist
        Botanologist 30 September 2013 19: 58
        +6
        It seems to me that outsourcing is such a tricky opportunity to drink the dough. I can hardly imagine outsourcing in Chechnya or Afghanistan. Military laundry - yes, I imagine. And the removal of clothes for washing somewhere - not really. Yes, and why? What, the military convoy will now carry with it all sorts of LLCs, FEs and others? With accountants, of course, with secretaries and supply managers ... request
        1. Serg 122
          Serg 122 30 September 2013 23: 35
          0
          There is a little different. Such "freeloaders" should be created in every region. Those. everyone has their own. Part of them diminishes for classes, exercises, field trips - they are already waiting for them ... No, not like that - they must wait. Experience shows that this is actually not the case.
      4. Interface
        Interface 30 September 2013 21: 39
        +2
        The Russian army without spiritual stegen-- rabble with arms in hand. The people should know what they are fighting for, and this is definitely not money, well, or to a lesser extent
    2. OffenroR
      OffenroR 30 September 2013 20: 29
      +1
      Quote: silver_roman
      and obscure civilian staff

      This "incomprehensible staff" made possible the victory in the Great Patriotic War. The equipment that entered Berlin in 1945 was made by the hands of these "incomprehensible".
      1. silver_roman
        silver_roman 30 September 2013 21: 29
        +5
        I in no way did not want to offend the maintenance personnel who participated in the development of tanks, and especially veterans. I mean, what do not drag the repairmen on the battlefield
        1. Nuar
          Nuar 30 September 2013 22: 41
          +1
          Quote: silver_roman
          I mean, what do not drag the repairmen on the battlefield

          Description:
          This manual is based on technical instructions developed by the Evacuation Headquarters troop units on the movement and dismantling of buildings Moscow City Executive Committee on the experience of the evacuation units of the trust in pulling out heavily stuck tanks on the Western Front.
          1. Nuar
            Nuar 30 September 2013 22: 58
            -1
            A little bit about the British:

            But the next group of Skyhawks was flying over West Falkland, crossing a strip of land from the south from Mount Rosalia to the Meni Bay. Unfortunately, the first thing they saw was the Ardent, in which fires were almost out of control.

            Once again, Captain Rank 2 West turned all his weapons on the enemy. His 4,5-inch gun mount was back in service, but as soon as they completed the tip, the Argentine pilots turned away, making a large two-mile U-turn back to West Falkland. Everyone knew that they had not left for long, but, although not sufficiently combat-ready, the “Ardent” still did not give up. There was no one left on one of his anti-aircraft guns to shoot, so NAAFI Ship Buffet Manager John Lick, a former army professional, made his way through a damaged deck to an assault rifle to fire from it.

            blah blah blah

            I was sure that over time many stories about heroism would appear. But most of all I was amazed at the behavior of John Leake, who was driving an automatic machine on the "Ardent". He really did not serve in the Navy in the literal sense, but as we say: we are all one team - from the commander of the ship to civilian NAAFI. And we all go together.

            This is the 82nd year of a conflict with Argentina.

            silver_roman - I'm all for what. Civilians can be not only in the conflict zone, but also actively participate in it. Never seen in war "civil" or "military" (no matter what is listed there in the Hague protocols), there are citizens of their country (the so-called "patriots") and all the rest ("skins" if simply).

            And the country is undergoing reforms. Reforms are always underway or whatever increase efficiency.. hmm ... well or why else.

            Pe Se. Outsourcing is byak.
            1. Jogan-xnumx
              Jogan-xnumx 30 September 2013 23: 49
              0
              Sorry to interfere with your controversy, but,
              NAAFI’s ship sideboard manager, John Lick, a former army professional, crawled through a damaged deck to an assault rifle to fire from it.

              this manager, as can be seen from the note, is still an army pro. Although the former. And to fire from something rifle-anti-aircraft, but against a rapidly moving and maneuvering target is not so simple. Could this be done by the person who saw this most anti-aircraft only in the movies? Would he have at least three formations, patriotism to the bone and no service, no skills? what
      2. Serg 122
        Serg 122 30 September 2013 23: 38
        0
        I don't remember the word "outsourcing" in the memoirs of the participants in that war No.
        1. Nuar
          Nuar 3 October 2013 10: 00
          0
          Quote: Jogan-64
          this manager, as can be seen from the note, is still an army pro.

          yeah, and here (or you) hypothetical repairmen are stupidly liberal, who didn’t go to the NVP in the Union. Those who go to work in combat conditions will surely know how and what they signed up for. and it’s unlikely that they will be lyceum students (I don’t imagine them at all).

          Quote: Serg 122
          I don't remember the word "outsourcing" in the memoirs of the participants in that war
          re-read Woodworth. There was a mention of a representative of the company supplying radars, who was at the exercises on Giblartar. And when the war broke out and the squadron moved south, he stumbled on the cruiser Briliant, so that he, like other civilian professionalsnot sent home.

          Specify who owned, later sunk, container ship "Atlantic Conveyor". I doubt very much that Kunard representatives consider themselves a military organization.

          Well, the actual word "outsourcing" is not in the book. Here you have a plus sign.
  2. saag
    saag 30 September 2013 18: 46
    0
    Quote: silver_roman
    and obscure civilian staff.

    This most incomprehensible civilian personnel produced these same tanks, as well as the entire line of ammunition
    1. silver_roman
      silver_roman 30 September 2013 18: 52
      +4
      well, but during the military operations, this personnel, which
      produced these same tanks, as well as the entire line of ammunition
      also carry with you in the tank ??? or how to deal with repairs small and more complicated ????
    2. Very old
      Very old 30 September 2013 19: 20
      +4
      Those who "produced these same tanks, as well as the entire line of ammunition" - yes, they are knowledgeable, able and intelligent. But they do not come for extra urgent. A decent salary, housing (the main thing) and a life without headaches for a family - provide it, and the children will come to the service.
    3. Serg 122
      Serg 122 30 September 2013 23: 40
      +1
      So he produces right now! Only the places of possible clashes are not torn
      1. The comment was deleted.
  3. VadimSt
    VadimSt 30 September 2013 18: 48
    +8
    For those who, at the call of conscience and free will, go to serve their country, it is necessary for life to provide privileges guaranteed by the state, and it is at the expense of those who live by the principle that I need it.
  4. erased
    erased 30 September 2013 18: 49
    15
    Soldiers must clean equipment and weapons. So they additionally study it.
    As for the popularization ...
    Publish a list of landed and fired generals and officers who stole and took bribes that made the soldiers work for themselves. Show the officers with whose connivance hazing flourishes, show the soldiers imprisoned for bullying the young. Now, when every teenager in the country knows that the army is not waiting for beatings and bullying, he will take a different attitude to the service.
  5. Clueless
    Clueless 30 September 2013 18: 49
    +3
    Outsourcing is a good thing when serving a year, because in a year you need to make a soldier from a conscript, not an armored personnel carrier repairman, or an assistant cook
  6. alone
    alone 30 September 2013 18: 50
    +6
    In this case, the graduate will receive a salary of 30-35 thousand rubles and the right to live where he sees fit (not necessarily in the barracks).


    what I think this is wrong. The troops, and even more so the contract soldiers, should be in the barracks. What if the force majeure situation and the unit should immediately reach the point of concentration. Now, wait until all the contractors arrive in the barracks?
  7. waisson
    waisson 30 September 2013 18: 53
    +9
    I think the army should be like in the days of the Soviet Union a soldier should know the technique and in the conditions of battle he could do minor repairs himself and since what kind of soldier he just drove used to train specialists and after the army practice they went to civilian life by professionals and now came the bastard drove away the same in engineering is a big zero, and in this case I’ll put my eight-year-old son in armored personnel carriers, he doesn’t drive poorly in triplexes. Serve as before and as in the charter of a soldier must endure all the hardships and deprivations of the army service. out of the Army Army improperly to be led by civilians
  8. Strashila
    Strashila 30 September 2013 18: 54
    +9
    The rear service had been perfected for centuries ... there was nothing superfluous. "In military field conditions, soldiers repair equipment and cook the porridge themselves." ... that's right, how can they do something if their uncles do everything for them and aunt. All outsourcing ends with the first burst of a shell, show-offs for the deep rear, and the soldiers howl on the front line under fire ... and who and what will do for them, themselves ... only themselves. Or even they will forget how to dig trenches ... will wait until the organization serving them gets to the front line ... until the migrant gastricians dig it up, and, as always, it is clumsy not according to the charter ... then the letters of appeal ... when one thing is not clear to defend the Motherland.
    Just another cut dough.
    1. Serg 122
      Serg 122 30 September 2013 23: 43
      0
      Something "outsourcing" does not distribute porridge on May 9 ...
  9. kostik1301
    kostik1301 30 September 2013 18: 58
    +6
    They make a kindergarten "Dibilek" from the army, the laws must be strict and there may or may not be ...
  10. Starover_Z
    Starover_Z 30 September 2013 19: 06
    +2
    The contractor should have an apartment where he can settle his family, a salary so that the family does not interrupt from bread to water and that children have the opportunity to get an education. And he needs a weekend to spend with his family. On the remaining days, the contractor should be with colleagues in the first degree of readiness.
    For hostilities, you must pay combat through the bank, on the card, so as not to wait until the soldier returns and the financiers get agitated.
    The contract is over, then a person is free if he does not want to renew it.
    1. gunnerminer
      gunnerminer 1 October 2013 00: 35
      +1
      The contractor should have an apartment where he can settle his family, a salary so that the family does not interrupt from bread to water and that children have the opportunity to get an education. And he needs a weekend to spend with his family.



      The Government cannot provide such conditions to officers.
  11. SUSANIN 777
    SUSANIN 777 30 September 2013 19: 09
    +3
    Like thimbles, terms change back and forth, but the essence does not change.
    In two years, you really cannot prepare a specialist. To make any sense, the contract should be concluded for at least 3-5 years.
    And accordingly, the fighter should be able to repair in the field. There, they often study it and live in it in the fields.
  12. marat1000
    marat1000 30 September 2013 19: 13
    +3
    The army is, above all, the defense of their homeland, their wives, children, fathers and mothers. And don't make up excuses if you're not a coward. The army has changed and everything is already in order there. Many of the villages will generally stay there for a long time, especially if they pay for it
  13. Alexey M
    Alexey M 30 September 2013 19: 15
    +1
    It’s not a good thing to call outsourcing. A soldier should be able to fully care for himself. Techniques must be repaired by crew; specialists such as a turner, minder, electrician can be civilians and they must help the crew and not work for him. It is possible to erase a civil uniform but repair it the soldier must do the repair himself. And so we create jobs that are also not bad.
  14. Vitaly Anisimov
    Vitaly Anisimov 30 September 2013 19: 19
    +2
    Such a principle discourages people of the older and middle generation. People who are accustomed to consider the army a school of life are wondering how a soldier who is repairing a military vehicle, infantry fighting vehicles or erasing his things can be completely combat-ready.
    Well, don’t know, the Russian soldier was always distinguished by his stamina and ability to survive and adapt in the most difficult situations .. and it turns out that every soldier will have to carry on the attack a dry closet, the cooks are running with steaming food and the orderlies on the reanimobile .. I exaggerate of course and still .. It’s just that Russia has vast territories .. well, I don’t know, I honestly don’t really like it all .. (Especially after Serdyukov and K ...) ..
  15. saag
    saag 30 September 2013 19: 27
    +5
    repair companies, only to save them from conscripts, here you have outsourcing
  16. Per se.
    Per se. 30 September 2013 19: 35
    +5
    First we create a problem for ourselves, then we try to solve it, moreover, struggling with the effect, not the cause. We wanted to increase the attractiveness of conscript service, and reduced the urgent one to one year. Did it help? It seems that not very much, since the next step was required - outsourcing, which, rather, only exacerbates the problem, turning the army into a kind of pioneer camp. Another gesture due to the one-year service - contract service, for us, the USA, which is now snickering, is a great authority! In addition to the States, which themselves print their green "candy wrappers" for the whole world, with their "professional army", there is recruitment by recruitment in Great Britain (with their long colonial traditions), and Germany, which first reduced the urgent to 6 months, and then urgently became solve the problem by declaring the transition to a contract army. Everything, all the other strong armies of the countries of the world SERVICE ON DRAWING! This is the army of China, North Korea, Pakistan, India, Syria, Israel (even women liable for military service), Italy, Spain, France (70% for conscription). We no longer have anyone here to take an example from, do we have our own traditions? There is a duty under the Constitution - to defend the Motherland, who did it stop? We do not need contract soldiers, but super-conscripts for a number of positions and military professions. On the call, you need to serve as long as you need to train a good soldier and military specialist, you must understand, at least 3 years. In order to prevent the size of the army from increasing excessively with an increase in the service life, this is solved by dividing the urgent one into military (with benefits and bonuses) and civilian, with a course of initial military training and further civilian workout for the army fund. Everything, you can choose the best for the army, let the rest finance their service from their salaries, including women, as in Israel. Do you want "contractors"? Create a semblance of the French Foreign Legion, where mercenaries from all over the former USSR and Eastern Europe will serve for money and Russian citizenship. We would like to make the army strong, we would, but when money, profit "rules", and all kinds of outsourcing appear, when patriotism and general morality fall in defense of our Fatherland.
  17. saag
    saag 30 September 2013 19: 42
    +3
    Well, the conscript will come for one year, something he will learn there and bang demobilization, a new one comes. and who will be engaged in the repair of tank engines and other similar equipment, if you constantly have to learn to replenish and what it will learn there in a year, here you have to drive ordinary diesel without bells and whistles so that professional turners and milling cutters normally repair
  18. Vitaly Anisimov
    Vitaly Anisimov 30 September 2013 20: 09
    +2
    Quote: saag
    Well, the conscript will come for one year, something he will learn there and bang demobilization, a new one comes. and who will be engaged in the repair of tank engines and other similar equipment, if you constantly have to learn to replenish and what it will learn there in a year, here you have to drive ordinary diesel without bells and whistles so that professional turners and milling cutters normally repair

    Here I agree with regard to equipment, etc. (but conscripts should see this, too, at least at the level of "key for 40, let me bring wipe it .. someone will remember this process) and in a combat situation, wait for the repair team when the bolt unscrewed ..? I think in schools it is necessary to study all this to start on diagrams and maps ... at least not only to disassemble and assemble the Kalash ..
  19. sergey261180
    sergey261180 30 September 2013 20: 15
    +6
    Service promotion
    The salary must be paid normal and nothing will need to be popularized. Imagine: "popularization of the State Duma deputy" or "increasing the attractiveness of the work of top managers of Gazprom", well, or in general "a call to the oligarchy for 2 years."
    1. ando_bor
      ando_bor 30 September 2013 20: 47
      +2
      Salaries are now paid to contractors
      at the level of the USA, Italy, France, but they are 2-3 times richer,
      and if we take the ratio of average salaries, then we have
      conscripts in combat units receive as much 12-18 sput.
      Simply, the first contact is not for money, it is always other gingerbread cookies.
      In Italy - the police, carabinieri, tax, customs, foresters and all
      public services, candidates without military service are not considered,
      minimum contract 5 years, DD 800 euros - less than our contractors.
      And everywhere with variations.
    2. Felix200970
      Felix200970 30 September 2013 23: 04
      +2
      Quote: sergey261180
      Imagine: "popularizing the State Duma deputy" or "increasing the attractiveness of the work of top managers of Gazprom"

      Smiled. I tried to imagine - it doesn’t work No.
  20. not good
    not good 30 September 2013 21: 20
    +3
    First of all, it would be necessary to achieve the implementation of the law on universal military duty, and then some cries: oh, we have fled the draftees and we can not catch them belay , and what prevents us from doing according to the example of Armenia, in the period specified by law after 18 years did not come to the military enlistment office to be put on the wanted list, with all the ensuing consequences. The runners will be reduced several times.
    1. ando_bor
      ando_bor 30 September 2013 21: 35
      +5
      The problem is not so much in the runners,
      how many in "patients", for 3-4 average for the region is almost legal,
      through doctors and lawyers or criminally, there is a slight degree of debelism, enuresis with flat feet and work wherever you want, with rare exceptions.
      The ban purely on health for a wide range of professions from a professional driver to an engineer, manager in all state-controlled companies
      -The line for urgent lining up, as in Sweden.
      But this state will is needed, and so blah blah, about nothing.
      The law was passed, who should be in prison - draft dodgers - should not be taken to the civil service.
    2. Serg 122
      Serg 122 30 September 2013 23: 48
      +1
      They declare with us, but to the point ... The rigor of Russian laws is leveled out by the non-obligation to implement
  21. gunnerminer
    gunnerminer 30 September 2013 21: 31
    +5
    The fifth attempt to popularize the service. Only recently during the 2007-2012 reform, thousands of contract soldiers were reduced by organizational measures, posts of midshipmen and ensigns were eliminated. All these measures were publicly substantiated by the NSSh RF Armed Forces. Under the approval of the President (Supreme Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces) and the Prime Minister Minister.Not two years have passed since the Russian Ministry of Defense conducts directly opposite measures? Why are they shy? Why haven’t they reduced the positions of ensigns in the Ministry of Emergencies, the Federal Security Service, the Ministry of Internal Affairs? What kind of pranks with the military police?
    1. ICT
      ICT 30 September 2013 21: 43
      0
      subject picture
    2. Egevich
      Egevich 30 September 2013 21: 51
      +1
      I can explain the alleged development of events about the police - before Sochi-2014 it was decided not to deploy a new structure with incomprehensible functions, but for now keep the old one so that there is someone to steer order (the military service, that is, with its commandant’s offices) ... well, after Sochi they’ll form the police, having transferred to it some parts that were unnecessary after the Olympics ... something like that ... (looks around - he didn’t say anything extra)
  22. Egevich
    Egevich 30 September 2013 21: 46
    +2
    yes, you hammer ...) in my memory there were several such waves - they just scored, a year later - dismiss ... then again ... and again and again ... it’s usual thing - there are no draftees, we take contract soldiers, draftees appeared, we expel contractors ... not the first and not the last time ...
    1. gunnerminer
      gunnerminer 30 September 2013 22: 07
      0
      yes, you hammer ...) in my memory there were several such waves - they just scored, a year later - dismiss ... then again ... and again and again ... it’s usual thing - there are no draftees, we take contract soldiers, draftees appeared, we expel contractors ... not the first and not the last time ...


      IMHO you are right. The next campaign.
  23. s1н7т
    s1н7т 30 September 2013 21: 58
    +2
    I was always enraged by the "work" of painting borders, unloading coal, etc., which had nothing to do with the service. However, the rest must be done by the forces of the troops - to feed themselves, to restore and maintain order in the premises, to carry out routine repairs of equipment, etc. It's just that the Serdyukovs-Shoigu, due to their ignorance of the specifics of the troops, have no idea what's what. Yes, and relatives / friends, go and make money on this (though I have no facts, but I can assume))). And I have a kimono jacket with a red star and the inscription on the back "USSR Armed Forces" - the best promoter of military service. True, in the Soviet. For the "Russian" I will not sign, however. And what kind of army can a state have if it is neither this nor that? The same. "So shtaaa ..." (C)
    1. gunnerminer
      gunnerminer 30 September 2013 22: 08
      0
      And what kind of army can a state have if it is neither this nor that? The same. "So shtaaa ..." (C)




      What a society, such an army.
    2. Serg 122
      Serg 122 30 September 2013 23: 52
      0
      I was always infuriated by the "work" of painting borders, unloading coal, etc., which had nothing to do with the service.
      Ha, thinks "Slavyanka" took it upon herself? Figwam! She only took money for it
  24. Brave
    Brave 30 September 2013 21: 59
    +1
    Quote: Cat
    Those in power are not idiots, they all perfectly understand. In particular, they understand perfectly well that it is one thing - when people take to the streets who know which side to take the machine gun from, how to stop a tank or a police armored personnel carrier, how to storm the mail, telephone, telegraph, and so on; and quite another - when to blame the snickering "elite" will come out office inmates, WoT heroes, and other elves of the 80th lvl. And it is precisely these considerations that the authorities are guided by when allocating money for the army, weapons, and the education of young people.
    Such is the party’s policy at this stage =)

    I didn’t read anything more idiotic on this site fool
    1. Cat
      Cat 30 September 2013 22: 07
      +2
      no, well, everyone has their own views on life in general and on what is happening in the country - in particular. But personally, it seems to me that those in power are not worried about how to protect the country from an external adversary, but about protecting themselves, loved ones, from their own people. Maybe in your country (Russia) everything is a little better than in Ukraine. But not much.
      1. s1н7т
        s1н7т 1 October 2013 17: 03
        0
        Quote: Cat
        But personally, it seems to me that those in power are not worried about how to protect the country from an external adversary, but about protecting themselves, loved ones, from their own people.

        This is not for you alone. And this is a symptom, don’t you?
    2. Heccrbq .2
      Heccrbq .2 30 September 2013 22: 42
      0
      and what is idiocy then?
  25. Brave
    Brave 30 September 2013 22: 08
    +2
    and there will always be someone to serve (when I started my service, they were forbidden to go in uniform, in a train they could knock off their caps, etc., it’s not necessary to talk about DD. But who remembers this now, there are all sorts of times, and Motherland it’s necessary to protect at any time!) somehow it’s not folding, but theorists of keyboard thought painfully nourish ...
    1. gunnerminer
      gunnerminer 30 September 2013 22: 16
      0
      They began to beat the servicemen of the SA and the Navy, and to throw them out of the trains, mainly the officers, around the autumn of 1988. The command of the units, garrisons, and naval bases recommended that officers, midshipmen, and conscripts living in the suburbs and problem areas, arrive in civilian service. The first delays in monetary allowances (salaries are received in civilian life) for about 3-4 months for the first time IMHO began in the spring of 1992. A couple of years before the Chechen campaign.
  26. Gennady1973
    Gennady1973 30 September 2013 22: 34
    +3
    Guys, born in the seventies. Well, no offense to anyone younger, did we really need some kind of stimulation? We ourselves WANTED and went to our army, no matter what troops! Everyone heard and went through the "hazing" from someone softer, someone more severe , but we We were not afraid of anything and nobody !!! except for one thing, to disgrace ourselves in front of friends and girls ......... did not take ..
  27. Just
    Just 30 September 2013 23: 23
    +3
    Quote: Bad
    Outsourcing is a good thing when serving a year, because in a year you need to make a soldier from a conscript, not an armored personnel carrier repairman, or an assistant cook

    And who will feed this "soldier" in the war, who will repair his armored personnel carrier, when all the "outsourcers" will be called up for service, but not cooks and repairmen, but the same soldiers, who are they in the army specialty - gunners-drivers-gunners?
    In the Soviet Army, each driver was also a repairman of his tank / armored personnel carrier / car, etc., and did not wait for any outsourcers, but repaired everything himself. That is why the Soviet Army won. And if you are not trained, how can you fix it in battle or after a battle?
    1. Serg 122
      Serg 122 30 September 2013 23: 55
      +2
      And who will feed this "soldier" in the war, who will repair his armored personnel carrier, when all the "outsourcers" will be called up for service, but not cooks and repairmen, but the same soldiers, who are they in the army specialty - gunners-drivers-gunners?

      Obviously, Messrs. "Outsourcingists" are immune to this case. They can't fight, it's not their business to turn the nuts ... laughing
  28. Felix200970
    Felix200970 30 September 2013 23: 39
    +1
    The problem of exemption from some work of military personnel (a bit long, however, well, I do not like words of foreign origin) has a place to be. Another thing is that you do not need to bring it to idiocy. It is possible to give cooking services in the maintenance and repair plan, maintenance of the communal services and the current repair of buildings and structures to service companies. At the same time, specialists in food and clothing services in units should even be in peacetime states. With the housing maintenance service in exactly the same way. It is very difficult to look for specialists at the right time, and, as you know, he sneaks up in the form of a thick fluffy polar animal on soft legs and imperceptibly. Regarding the acceptance of military personnel with higher education on a contract, they also passed. Although he will have three higher educations - a young man, a dushar, an elephant (emphasize the necessary), he is like that in Africa. And to understand what for what and why it will start somewhere in six months. No need to step on the rake that has already been stepped in Ukraine. And even 10 years ago. At first they began to take on a contract with higher education without fixed-term service. Then any. As a result, conscription in the Armed Forces of Ukraine is terminated. Now everyone is serving under the contract and the minimum term of the first contract is 3 years. True, the procedure for awarding ranks to junior command personnel has changed. But this is a different story.
  29. Lissa
    Lissa 30 September 2013 23: 47
    0
    Worthy salary, lodging(most important) and life without a headache for family- Provide. And the guys will come to the service.


    Do you think these are the main motivators (or in the absence of them, demotivators) for young people?
  30. understudy
    understudy 1 October 2013 00: 47
    +1
    You can "popularize" what truly reflects the essence of a particular state institution. What kind of truth can we talk about when thieves and swindlers quietly resign or (oh, horror!) Are kept under house arrest ...
  31. Old warrant officer
    Old warrant officer 1 October 2013 02: 09
    +1
    This outsourcing (pah! Filthy word) is very interesting. One cook is normally set for 30 people eating, and in parts there are not even cooks in the states of the units! That's cool, huh? The doctors were left only in the deployed units, and in our unit there is not even a state health officer, although we are standing separately from everyone at the border, and the hospital is 200 km from us. The soldiers do the washing themselves, since there is nothing to carry the laundry for 100 km for washing, civilians are engaged in cleaning the territory and premises, but they have never been given a salary for the work already done. Do we need such outsourcing? And if we add here that the state does not have a single technician, then the situation becomes very deplorable!
  32. KOH
    KOH 1 October 2013 05: 27
    +2
    Quote: Gennady1973
    Guys, born in the seventies. Well, no offense to anyone younger, did we really need some kind of stimulation? We ourselves WANTED and went to our army, no matter what troops! Everyone heard and went through the "hazing" from someone softer, someone more severe , but we We were not afraid of anything and nobody !!! except for one thing, to disgrace ourselves in front of friends and girls ......... did not take ..


    That's right, I had a reservation after school, but I went to write a statement to take it off and take it into the army, and now everything is perverted, if he runs from the army he is a hero, if he is caught and taken away, then the mothers look that I wouldn’t catch a cold in the throat, they’re growing some kind of chmyr, well, we were all rightly brought up on such films as "Officers", "The Dawns Here Are Quiet" and others, but now? ...
  33. intsurfer
    intsurfer 1 October 2013 06: 51
    0
    Outsourcing is a great topic for budgeting! Outsourcing your core functions is a direct path to the collapse of at least a company of any size, even an army. In the Second World War, the Nazis tried to force our country to go to outsource in terms of public administration ...
    1. servant.
      servant. 1 October 2013 09: 40
      +1
      Before the introduction of outsourcing, the generals sawed the budget, and now oh, how I would like to start my thieving hands again ... There was no control over the actions of these gentlemen, the military court, the military prosecutor’s office were all ours.
  34. qwertynsan
    qwertynsan 1 October 2013 07: 07
    0
    And in Uzbekistan, the boys pay money, and not small, that would go to serve in military service!
  35. gameover65
    gameover65 1 October 2013 07: 34
    +2
    the contract army is evil and the machinations of enemies. Yes, everything sounds beautiful, professional, practitioner, etc.
    only how much does this professional contractor need to pay to actually stand in front of someone else’s machine gun, almost surely knowing that he will be killed now? A soldier called to the army to defend his family, the country does not do this for money.
    There are fundamental differences between the draft army and the contract army, which fundamentally change the position of the army in society and its tasks. And the question of the existence of our state and Russia as a country depends on this.
    In the transition from conscription to recruitment of the army to hired, the armed defense of the country from external aggression ceases to be the business of the whole people. He is detached from solving his very first task - ensuring the existence of the country itself.
    A contract army is the absence of a mobilization reserve, which is already melting.
    but what if suddenly the state does not have the money to pay? lose the army?
    Why do you think Israel is not switching to supereffective contractors?
    Recall the year 1919, the Treaty of Versailles. defeated Germany is forbidden to have universal military duty, she was allowed to have a small army, but ... certainly a professional! those. Entente countries, having defeated Germany, decided that it needed to have a stronger army?
    on the count of all who push the topic of a contract army and outsourcing !!!
  36. Hort
    Hort 1 October 2013 07: 54
    0
    brilliant: civilian specialists repair military equipment. Probably civilians will also clean weapons? ... That's why a good idea (wash, cook in canteens and other household works) once again lead to idiocy ... probably a rhetorical question.
    1. Felix200970
      Felix200970 1 October 2013 19: 15
      0
      Quote: hort
      brilliant: civilian specialists repair military equipment.

      And they always fixed it. I repeat - ALWAYS! For this, a network of military repair plants was deployed in the country where CIVIL specialists were engaged in the repair of MILITARY equipment. At these factories, only the director of the plant, and the heads of the shops (where there were several shops) were military personnel. I earnestly ask: if not "in the subject" - do not write nonsense hi
  37. navy1301
    navy1301 1 October 2013 08: 30
    0
    I don’t understand that I don’t like “civil servants” like that. You first decide who to fight then? And what to repair, a lot of repairs in Grozny? (the entire North Caucasian Railway was clogged with destroyed equipment) and in Afghanistan? The first Chechen out of 10 armored personnel carriers in units of .... one was brought into a capable form in order to be sent to the Caucasus (this is the question of mechanics of soldiers). From a company of 18 year old conscripts, 2-3 soldiers ... the rest ......... explain to mothers why ....... why ...
    Look around, there is no such country for a long time, almost everyone serves and works for money and benefits, the tactics and strategy of fighting have changed, etc. You can recall the feats of grandfathers and great-grandfathers (you must always remember about them), but this was in another History, and this there was a "different" war. I do not want the "green" 18-19 year olds to die, I want professionals who consciously chose this to fight.
  38. pahom54
    pahom54 1 October 2013 09: 21
    +2
    I quote: ... "On the one hand, outsourcing is not a bad thing, because it allows a soldier to forget about distracting things unusual for a modern service, but on the other hand, outsourcing sometimes leads to a corruption plane ..." ...
    But can not be translated into Russian ??? They cluttered the Russian language with verbal slops.
    And if we talk about attracting contractors, then first of all, this is the creation of a positive image (not the image) of both the fighter and the Armed Forces, and secondly, the provision of normal material and living conditions, including the payment with which we have in Russia a big problem. From those same damned "friends" of the states, a soldier gets more than a Russian junior officer at the captain's level.
    And another good step: to provide the possibility of admission to universities (state) to free departments (most likely, after serving under a contract for 2-3 years). By the way, in the same States, the payment of studies by the Department of Defense is just one of the factors attracting young people to contract service.
    1. ando_bor
      ando_bor 1 October 2013 12: 10
      0
      The soldier in the states on the first contract receives at
      our contractor, and so in most contract armies.
      But they have average salaries in the country 2-3 times more,
      according to their concepts, they pay them a penny.
      And we have the minimum contractual more than the national average.
      In Russia, the salaries of the military are the highest, if we take in relation to the rest of the economy.
      They just do not serve for money, especially the first contract.