Military Review

The most modern tank on the most dangerous border: a report from the border with the Gaza Strip

475
“Now the approach has changed. When we are fired at with rockets, we do not back up, but attack and respond with fire. Gaza knows that we are here, they are familiar with our capabilities. Gaza is a very vulnerable place for Israeli fire, and we have a list here goals like the Air Force has. Tanks armed and ready for battle, just like we are. "Tankers of the 401th brigade are well aware that the calm on the border with the Gaza Strip that has remained since the Pillar of Fire can explode at any moment. It looks like one day from their daily service.


Tank Merkava 4 on the border with Gaza. "In full combat readiness"


It has been seven months since the end of the operation Cloud Pillar. Just seven months, and it seems that the border with the Gaza Strip has become one of the most peaceful in Israel, although everyone knows that invisible lava boils below the surface. Last month, fighters of the 401 Brigade began to guard the border with the Gaza Strip after they completed large-scale brigade exercises. They fell into a deceptive reality, calm on the one hand and raging on the other. The seemingly quiet border is not at all, and most of the incidents, even minor ones, do not receive the attention of the press. Only in January, a tunnel was discovered near the security fence, in March, forces from Gaza violated imaginary calm by firing a rocket in the direction of Ashkelon, and also fired at the vehicle of the northern district commander Colonel Ofer Winter. In April, an improvised explosive device was launched at the border near the D-9 bulldozer, another border violation was committed in May, and this incomplete list does not include unsuccessful attempts to launch rockets, fire from small arms weapons and demonstrations at the border.

All these incidents have to be dealt with by the fighters of the 401 Brigade, an armored brigade armed with the Merkava 4 tanks. It is on them that Tsakhal is counting on in the event that the conflict breaks out with a new force. As the tanker officer told us: "The army understands that this is the most dangerous border, despite the situation on the Golan Heights and therefore has placed here the most modern and protected tanks we have."

"When we are fired on with rockets, we do not back up, but we attack and fire with fire." Crew tank in action.


This week (18 of June 2013 of the year) I went to Gaza to meet with the crew of the brigade’s tank to look at Gaza with their eyes and hear their impressions of the situation directly from their seats - a situation for many in Israel that seems like a real utopia. I happened to meet an interesting and cohesive team, a platoon commander living in a settlement in the West Bank, a proud farmer from the agricultural village of Nahalal, a new immigrant from Brazil and another fighter living near Netanya. All of them are proud of their service and everyone is aware of the meaning of service on the border with the Gaza Strip.

"We moved from defense to attack"
The 401 Brigade has a long tradition of roots leading to the Six Day War. Since then, she has participated in all wars and conflicts. This brigade and the ninth regiment to which the tank crew I was assigned is assigned, entered into history having carried out in combat conditions the first interception of the anti-tank guided missile released on the tank. "We are the first company to receive a Windbreaker (KAZ Trophy) and a company that intercepted the first missile," said Lieutenant Ariel Hoffman (אריאל הופמן) from the village of Carmey Tzur. "You realize the capabilities of this tank and its strength. It is necessary to understand that thanks to all tank systems including the Windbreaker it has the ability to fire very quickly. In this tank with an active defense system, along with the secret systems, the approach changed and we went from attack to attack. When we are fired at with rockets, we do not back up, but we attack and fire with fire. In Gaza they know that we are here, in the end they have intelligence and observers and they understand that we are here. They are more or less familiar with our capabilities E. "

I met the crew of Lieutenant Hoffman after they returned from a long ambush where, using the means of observation, they watched what was happening in the depths of Gaza. They live in this area and, unlike us, feel calm before the storm. "Very quiet, on the other hand, you see everything, you also know what is happening on the other side of the fence. I can tell you how we are watching the militants in the sights and it is especially difficult for us to tank crews. Our tanks are armed and ready to open fire at any moment "But we understand the complexity of the situation and maintain a lull. In the end, we protect the inhabitants of the south of the country, and when everything is calm, it’s clear to us that everything’s calm. That’s our task."

The command of the Gaza division knows that in its hands is the most modern tank ready for any situation. The equipment of the tank, up to the armor of the vest, is in an accessible place, the crew is able to get its tank in a matter of minutes where it should appear. They carry out the opening of routes, long ambushes and the most serious challenge is to maintain combat readiness. That is what Lieutenant Hoffman works tirelessly. "This constant tension at the end may explode. This is the main challenge."

"This constant tension at the end may explode." An inside look.


Work in Gaza is integrated with other forces (integrated combat group), which includes, in addition to tank battalions, engineering, infantry, artillery units, UAVs and other means prohibited for publication. "We know how to interact with everyone here. It works well, and we constantly work on it. Before each ambush, we conduct joint exercises that include the techniques of our other forces."

“Two weeks ago, the D-9 bulldozer hit an IED and a bucket flew off,” recalls Lieutenant Hoffman. "We had a week of mortar attacks and other events that were not reported and this is what makes the tank crew here ready for anything. Gaza is a very vulnerable place for Israel’s fire, and we have here a list of targets like that of the Air Force. in the end, with armored firepower, we can use it instantly. However, it is important to note that the return fire of the tank can affect the status quo in the Gaza Strip. "

“This weapon is frightening with its capabilities. When something happens at the border, they call us to bring order”

They are the generation of high-tech in the most modern technology and this is what immediately catches the eye when you climb into the tank. Everything is computerized and controlled by pressing a button. There is no longer a need for a muscular loader and the driver should not strain his neck to stick his head out or strain his eyes to see well. Corporal Michael Balisiano (מיכאל בליסיאנו) was recruited into the army a year and a half ago after he came from Brazil. He shows me the driver's seat of the tank, and again the screens are striking. "To drive such a tank is just a thrill, especially since I do not have a driver's license for a car," he says with a smile. "We do a lot of ambush here and take various firing positions. The job is not easy, but interesting. Actually, as a driver, I sleep most of the time because everyone needs a vigorous driver. So I'm not complaining."

The tank is fully automated and very easy to use. "In addition, we have a computer that displays all the information, from electrical faults to the remaining amount of fuel. The speed switch is like in a car and it is very convenient. There are also thermal imaging cameras, so for me that day, that night - without the difference. "

"This is a great feeling, we protect our citizens"


Sergeant Dotan Lavi (דותן לביא), charging the tank, always emphasizes that first of all he is proud that he is a farmer from the village of Nahalal. He joined the crew after almost 2 of the year served in the Magellan unit. "My duties include loading cannon shells and controlling a machine gun. Through the computer I control the communication system and all this with one click of a button. In ambush, I scan the area with a special device I cannot tell about and see everything." If in the past the loader had to use a small amount of physical force when charging projectiles and monitor what projectile he charges, then in the 4 Merkava everything is computerized. "I choose the type of projectile by pressing a button on the computer and after I click the OK button, the system itself gives me the projectile that I chose, a cell opens and from there I send the projectile into the barrel."

“After 20 days I’m going to pre-demobilization leave and I can say that I had a very interesting service,” Lavi says. This transition from Maglan to tank forces was very hard, I had to achieve this for a long time and I’m happy for every minute. Being a fighter here is much more interesting, the border is not simple, but it leaves a good feeling that we are protecting our citizens. "

Sergeant Saaru Papar (סער ר), the gunner, had to seek permission for a long time to return to the company after being wounded, and it was he who in the tank pulls the gun "trigger". "It is very important for my position that I perfectly familiarize myself with this area. I do this work from the tank in each ambush, and also physically visit the operational part of the observers in order to get better acquainted with the area and potential goals. There is always something to learn and I can say that I know the whole area as a souvenir. "

Maintaining combat readiness


Peper adds that it is difficult to stay in a closed tank for so many hours, but their crew is very close-knit. "There are also our charms. For example, yesterday we brought a watermelon with ice into the tank. But seriously, I can say that before performing one of our tasks, we protected the territory, and in a few meters behind us a simple farmer plowed his land on his tractor. I can tell you that somehow the paratroopers who were here with us came up to me and said: “You really are fighters and you are doing your job.” In fact, a tank is an awesome vehicle. opportunities. When something happens at the border, ay us to clean up the mess. "
Author:
Originator:
http://www.mako.co.il/pzm-units/armored-corps/Article-9e5a96f98565f31006.htm&sCh=3d385dd2dd5d4110&pId=1093150966
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  1. ed65b
    ed65b 1 October 2013 08: 59 New
    61
    ... One moment. author, the name should be changed to "The most ultra-modern supertank in the world with the most supertankers."
    Sour.
    1. Papakiko
      Papakiko 1 October 2013 09: 16 New
      +7
      Quote: ed65b
      The most super-modern super tank in the world with the most super-tankers

      Guerrrprofessor ventured on this to this!
      If GerrrrProfessor takes me out of his "black" lists, then I will completely think that it is my wishes and aspirations that have come true. And GerrrrrProfessor is an ordinary person and nothing human is alien to him, starting with barbs and ending with good jokes.
      Thank you!

      I look forward to continuing the work.
      1. The Indian Joe
        The Indian Joe 1 October 2013 10: 23 New
        27
        Papakiko (2) RU Today, 09:16 ↑ New
        Quote: ed65b
        The most super-modern super tank in the world with the most super-tankers
        Guerrrprofessor ventured on this to this!
        If GerrrrProfessor takes me out of his "black" lists, then I will completely think that it is my wishes and aspirations that have come true. And GerrrrrProfessor is an ordinary person and nothing human is alien to him, starting with barbs and ending with good jokes.
        Thank you!

        I look forward to continuing the work.
        - Well, it’s written very well, a tear has already struck me - from nostalgia, one-on-one propaganda stories about good, kind and honest simple sotvetsky, pah, Israeli guys who valiantly defend the borders of their native Soyu ... Israel. And the style is the same, except that the photos are a little better)))
        1. OffenroR
          OffenroR 1 October 2013 18: 32 New
          +8
          And here is the Israeli super-tanker in super uniforms found fellow
        2. Rumata
          Rumata 1 October 2013 19: 57 New
          +8
          Quote: Injun Joe
          and what, it’s very well written, a tear has already struck me - from nostalgia, one-on-one propaganda stories about good, kind and honest simple sotvetsky,

          Why go so far, just read any article on the Military District about the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation ... I don't see anything wrong with a resident of a country, let's call it "The Motherland of Elephants", for example, praising his armed forces
          1. carbofo
            carbofo 3 October 2013 16: 28 New
            +4
            Quote: Rumata
            I do not see anything wrong with the fact that a resident of a country, let's call it "The Motherland of Elephants", for example, praised his armed forces

            Let him praise in another place and in another language.
            1. crazyrom
              crazyrom 19 October 2013 00: 08 New
              0
              Although the article is stupid, I still read it. So, the loader presses the smart button on the super-duper computer, gets the correct projectile, and after that he uses the pens to "send the projectile into the barrel." This is the most modern tank right? And what about ours then talking, if the automatic loader is probably 40 years old as on all tanks?
        3. tomket
          tomket 1 October 2013 21: 06 New
          10
          yes, there is only a lack of simple Israeli damsels who bring a jug of milk, and stealing bread to the ladies in rare moments of calm
      2. Armata
        Armata 1 October 2013 10: 30 New
        29
        Quote: Papakiko
        Guerrrprofessor ventured on this to this!
        If GerrrrProfessor takes me out of his "black" lists, then I will completely think that it is my wishes and aspirations that have come true. And GerrrrrProfessor is an ordinary person and nothing human is alien to him, starting with barbs and ending with good jokes.
        Thank you!
        Great countryman. drinks The professor is not a stupid person. He just wants to apparently revitalize the site. Personally, my opinion. Merkava is not a bad tank and very dangerous, but understand the cuckoo praises the rooster for praising the cuckoo. Time will tell who is better than T90 or Abramss, Leo and Merkava. Do not forget that they are all our geopolitical opponents. And you can’t relate to them with neglect.
        1. Papakiko
          Papakiko 1 October 2013 10: 56 New
          +8
          Quote: Mechanic
          Great countryman.

          Categorically, my respect. drinks
          2 weeks from business trips do not take out.

          Eugene, have you been to Paradise?

          Quote: Mechanic
          Merkava is not a bad tank and very dangerous

          I didn’t see anything wrong with the facts about the Morkva, I just asked the Professor to develop his statements constructively (at least in the form of pictures, already forward)
          Us ordinary inhabitants living behind a camel100500 transitions from the "promised land" are humanly curious and interesting about everything about their Merk life.
          Quote: Mechanic
          The professor is not a stupid person. He just wants to apparently revitalize the site.

          Oh, yes, it always goes to u-RA.
        2. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 1 October 2013 11: 02 New
          12
          Quote: Mechanic
          Merkava is not a bad tank and very dangerous

          And in Lebanon, they burned very well. RPG-29, however, is more dangerous.
          1. Cat
            Cat 1 October 2013 11: 09 New
            +4
            Quote: Ingvar 72
            And in Lebanon, they burned very well. RPG-29, however, is more dangerous.

            Well, if you try very hard - then you can also drown an atomic aircraft carrier with an ordinary sledgehammer (if you know when and why you’re scandalized))) But it doesn’t follow from this that all atomic aircraft carriers are obviously bad and useless - that is, maybe they are bad, but it is determined by completely different criteria, and not by the weight of a sledgehammer and the volume of the biceps of a saboteur-hammer thief =)
            1. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 1 October 2013 11: 56 New
              11
              Quote: Cat
              and not the weight of a sledgehammer and the volume of the biceps of a saboteur-hammer thief =)

              Let the tank bring their miracle to the Nizhny Tagil training ground, and we will see how it passes through our obstacle course. Either they will fall asleep, or as Iveco-Lynx obstacles will go around. The tank is good only for the desert, in other conditions it will deflate.
              1. Cat
                Cat 1 October 2013 12: 04 New
                12
                Quote: Ingvar 72
                Let the tank bring their miracle to the Nizhny Tagil training ground, and we will see how it passes through our obstacle course. Either they will fall asleep, or as Iveco-Lynx obstacles will go around. The tank is good only for the desert, in other conditions it will deflate.

                Well, you yourself voiced the reinforced concrete excuse that the Merkav designers will give in response to your proposal: they didn’t plan to fight in the vicinity of Nizhny Tagil in life, respectively, all the obstacles there to them.
                The nuance is that articles for the Internet are not written by designers or engineers, but by PR managers. Which, by position, to delve into the performance characteristics and other is not something that is not necessary - rather, it is even contraindicated. And then you never know, what a flaw suddenly voiced by the unreasoning, prestige, panimash, undermine, and so on =)
              2. labendik
                labendik 1 October 2013 12: 47 New
                +4
                And why is it for other conditions. Therefore, well done, that made exactly the tank that they need.
              3. Pimply
                Pimply 1 October 2013 15: 09 New
                +3
                Quote: Ingvar 72
                Let the tank bring their miracle to the Nizhny Tagil training ground, and we will see how it passes through our obstacle course. Either they will fall asleep, or as Iveco-Lynx obstacles will go around. The tank is good only for the desert, in other conditions it will deflate.


                Well, there are shootings from the landfill in the Czech Republic (there is one donated by Merkava 1), for example, or shootings from the landfill in the Golan after another rainfall with ushatannye roads and dirt, which the very middle strip of Russia will envy. You cannot understand - just because a tank is sharpened under certain conditions in the first place does not mean that it is bad in another situation. And this does not mean that if you have a poor idea of ​​the terrain of another country, then the tank is made to your understanding of reality.
                1. beard999
                  beard999 1 October 2013 16: 06 New
                  17
                  Quote: Pimply
                  which the very middle strip of Russia will envy

                  Ready to answer for your words? We have:
                  http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/9318/94845085.d1/0_a421a_e3eabec9_orig
                  http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/9252/94845085.d1/0_a4218_91b17257_orig
                  http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6703/94845085.d1/0_a4219_481f5450_orig
                  http://images7.alphacoders.com/345/345785.jpg
                  http://club443.ru/uploads/127/post-1247387726.jpg
                  I’m waiting for your “shooting from the Golon training ground.” Compare.
                  And why do you take only the “middle zone” of Russia? We have tanks moving throughout the country - from the Arctic tundra in the north to the subtropics (in the Krasnodar Territory). You have such a variety of soils, climatic zones, and the difference in annual temperatures is not close. Suffice it to recall the so-called “Chechen plasticine” - in the Pre-Caucasian chernozems, which lie on tertiary clays, the content of clay minerals such as montmorillonite, which retain water well, is increased, therefore these chernozems have a special, plasticine viscosity that persists even in the driest weather. ” There are no such soils in Israel at all. The operating conditions of the BTT in Russia and Israel are completely incomparable.
                  1. Pimply
                    Pimply 1 October 2013 18: 45 New
                    +2
                    Quote: beard999
                    Ready to answer for your words? We have:

                    I, unlike you, am ready. For the sake of interest, I recommend watching the film "Yom Kippur" (about the 1973 war, it shows the Israeli autumn very adequately.

                    Secondly, I recommend entering "Merkava dirt" into Google. You will find a lot of interesting things.

                    http://ru-armor.livejournal.com/12547.html?thread=37891

                    Life and war in Israel, dear, are built on the basis of local realities, and not from your ideas about them.
                    Or do you think they will change from your expansion?

                    Here's an example of pictures from the year 2002. Sometimes it happens.



                    Or such
                    1. beard999
                      beard999 1 October 2013 20: 07 New
                      18
                      Quote: Pimply
                      Israeli autumn is shown there very adequately

                      Eh Pupyrchaty, you do not understand a damn thing, time you write similar nonsense. What do we need your "Israeli autumn"? Our tanks are operated year-round and everywhere, in much more difficult conditions. And in the winter http://img11.nnm.ru/b/5/1/9/e/293bbdb0f4eb56e2887a1c6466e.jpg and in the summer, under the conditions of the “Chechen plasticine” (apparently you have no idea what it is, what it is dangerous and how BTT behaves on such soil). http://o001oo.ru/uploads/1240464412/gallery_700_19_194926.jpg.
                      Quote: Pimply
                      Life and war in Israel, dear, are built on the basis of local realities

                      Well, to you, to the adequacy of judgments, as an interested party, much further than me. You personally, and your fellow countrymen as a whole, are actively trying to embellish this reality in every possible way. From the side it resembles a certain inferiority complex ... One title of this article, which the professor translated what is worth, is “the most dangerous border”. Is it really more dangerous than the borders between Korea, Indo-Pakistani or Syrian-Turkish? Another nonsense of Israeli propaganda ...
                      And your comparison of Israeli conditions of operation of BTT with Russian, no less nonsense. We even in the middle zone have a seasonal temperature drop of 60 degrees. (from minus 30 to + 30) the norm, but in the country it is much larger. And Israel, all located in the subtropical zone (and the presence of several climatic zones does not change this horseradish), where even in winter the average t is positive. We have an area of ​​the country of 17098246 km sq., You have 20770 km. We have similar roads (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zt-kXiPaTg4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJBRwAzBNkY) for many thousands of kilometers, for us it is a daily and year-round reality, and for Israel this is a seasonal exception (rainy winters), and the length of such routes is negligible.
                      Well, and who is involved in the "polarization" here? Do not you Pupyrchaty again trying to pull the well-known "rubber" product on the globe?
                      1. rero
                        rero 2 October 2013 05: 29 New
                        -1
                        I would like to make a comment about the border between the two Koreas: if you know there is no one at the border in tanks, they’ll shoot quietly .. on the border with the Kazakh gas den firefight, shoot out tanks at the border and so on ..
                      2. beard999
                        beard999 2 October 2013 15: 42 New
                        0
                        Quote: rero
                        about the border of the mazda bimia koreiam

                        You apparently do not follow the events on the Korean border very well. “Silence” is far from always there. Artillery shootings there happen quite often. For example, we can recall November 2010, when the North Koreans fired on the South Caucasus http://loveopium.ru/news/severnaya-koreya-obstrelyala.html. There are regular armies on both sides, with a huge amount of heavy weapons, and not like yours — Palestinian poorly armed insurgents.
                        However, it is on the Korean example, I do not insist. Take the Indo-Pakistani border (two nuclear powers !!!): gunfight at the border http://www.itar-tass.com/c96/898475_print.html. Such incidents there are much more dangerous than any of yours, on the border with Gaza.
                  2. 31231
                    31231 1 October 2013 21: 05 New
                    +3
                    Do not give a link to the description of soils in the Golan ?!
                    Judging by the photo and video, you have sandy loams and sand and gravel soils there. Starting from the Krasnoyarsk region and to the West, the surface soils of Russia are mostly clayey and technogenic (chernozem).
                    The only thing I found about the soils of the Golan:
                    The soil or soil around us is volcanic, since it is the foot of the Golan Heights, the fertility of this soil is known, therefore + a little water and everything around you is green.
                    This only soil sticks to the sole, so before getting into your car, you should clean your shoes, unless you collect at home types of soil from different parts of Israel (Sherlock).
                  3. kavkaz8888
                    kavkaz8888 1 October 2013 23: 16 New
                    +2
                    I would love to ride a "shiz" (VAZ 2106) on such a range.
                    And I also went to your link. Is that what they are so stuck ??? !!!
                    http://www.ljplus.ru/img/g/o/golan/8083_3010.jpg
                    and it
                    http://www.ljplus.ru/img/g/o/golan/8083_3015.jpg
                    1. Pimply
                      Pimply 1 October 2013 23: 57 New
                      -1
                      Yeah. it happens
                    2. 31231
                      31231 2 October 2013 00: 08 New
                      +3
                      http://www.ljplus.ru/img/g/o/golan/8083_3010.jpg


                      The same thing, but only with us.

                    3. Pimply
                      Pimply 2 October 2013 01: 31 New
                      +1
                      If you return to the beginning of the story, you will find that it began with photographs of a Russian tank drowned in the mud. Or when necessary, do you put on your eyes blinds?

                    4. beard999
                      beard999 2 October 2013 15: 43 New
                      0
                      Quote: Pimply
                      If you return to the beginning of the story, you will find that it began with photographs of a Russian tank drowned in the mud.

                      There is one caveat. You wrote the following: “shooting from the landfill in the Czech Republic” or “shooting from the landfill in the Golan”. That's just me for you, not about the "training grounds." At the landfill, you can create any conditions. And we, all this, have ordinary country roads. Tanks on the roof of the tower burrow regularly. For us, this is not exotic, but banal everyday life.
                      http://patstalom.com/uploads/images/2/f/f/b/30/a4dd6285ee.jpg
                      http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/masterok/50816465/304044/original.jpg
                      http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/4003/soustov.60/0_34bdd_3dcaaed5_XL.jpg
                      http://cs4147.vkontakte.ru/u35497405/94775520/y_a670840e.jpg
                      http://s7.postimg.org/ikxow85x7/3864425.jpg
                      I see that you generally pay the wrong attention. It’s not about BTT cross-country ability, but about the terrain and climatic conditions on which the equipment is regularly operated. In the first message, I threw the link http://club443.ru/uploads/127/post-1247387726.jpg. Do you think this tank drove into some deep puddle? Nothing of the kind. This is a usual country road, along which tanks went, but under one of them “the ground floated”, the car sucked in like a quagmire. In Israel, nothing like this, in principle, does not happen. This is about this.
              4. 31231
                31231 1 October 2013 23: 49 New
                +1
                http://ru-armor.livejournal.com/12547.html?thread=37891


                Thanks for the link. Now imagine the patency of Carrots.
                Nine Katovskaya in full body kit does not sink when pulled out - it says a lot.
                1. Pimply
                  Pimply 2 October 2013 00: 28 New
                  +1
                  Quote: 31231
                  Thanks for the link. Now imagine the patency of Carrots.
                  Nine Katovskaya in full body kit does not sink when pulled out - it says a lot.

                  There are similar photos of the T-72. Want to? There is a reality - tanks regularly drown in mud. And I also have pictures of merkava pokatushek on deep mud. Do you want it too? You see, I understand perfectly well - show you Merkava in the desert - you will say she was created only for her. Show you Merkava in the mud or snow - no, it doesn’t, or she will stall or drown there. Bravo.
            2. Rumata
              Rumata 1 October 2013 20: 03 New
              -4
              Quote: beard999
              There are no such soils in Israel at all. The operating conditions of the BTT in Russia and Israel are completely incomparable.

              In my memory, this is the third time you start a song about Russian dirt, which our Golan Heights never dreamed of. Twice you were thrown photos, facts, data on precipitation. Our song is good, start over ...
              1. falcon
                falcon 1 October 2013 23: 20 New
                +1
                Quote: Rumata

                In my memory, this is the third time you start a song about Russian mud, which our Golan High

                It seems to me that the Golan Heights is Syrian territory.
                Maybe I'm wrong? :))
                1. Pimply
                  Pimply 2 October 2013 00: 28 New
                  +2
                  Quote: falcon
                  It seems to me that the Golan Heights is Syrian territory.
                  Maybe I'm wrong? :))

                  Now it’s about the same as the Kuril Islands - Japanese.
                2. Kir
                  Kir 2 October 2013 01: 55 New
                  0
                  That's just about the Kuril Islands is not worth it, the story is generally special with them, if you look at the story so that the Japanese didn’t live there, only that way there were guard posts (southern Kuril Islands), and if this is the real territory this is beyond the Ainu. You would be talking about the Prussian city of Königsberg, although even here it’s a bummer before that it bore the Russian name, so ....
                  All this is so, but the question is: what kind of army do you have if the tankman is unshaven?
                3. Pimply
                  Pimply 2 October 2013 02: 15 New
                  0
                  Quote: Kir
                  That's just about the Kuril Islands is not worth it, the story is generally special with them, if you look at the story so that the Japanese didn’t live there, only that way there were guard posts (southern Kuril Islands), and if this is the real territory this is beyond the Ainu. You would be talking about the Prussian city of Königsberg, although even here it’s a bummer before that it bore the Russian name, so ....
                  All this is so, but the question is: what kind of army do you have if the tankman is unshaven?

                  If you look carefully at everything, the story is special. Golan are under the protectorate of Israel longer than under the Syrian, for example.
                  Koenig, although it was at one time under the protectorate of Russia, as far as I remember, did not carry a Russian name until the 20th century seridine. Twangste he was one time.

                  The army is not measured by shaving or marches. It is measured by several other things. A permit is issued for the beard in the Israeli army. Like a mustache. For example, many religious ones do not shave. To the reservists, the beard is not a beard.
                4. Kir
                  Kir 2 October 2013 07: 53 New
                  +1
                  The city, which is better known as Königsberg, was founded before Ivan IV and bore the Slavic name, so to speak, and only later became Prussian, so as they say it returned to its rightful heirs.
        3. beard999
          beard999 2 October 2013 15: 45 New
          -1
          Quote: Rumata
          Twice you threw photos, facts, data on precipitation

          What photos? Dirt at the "landfill"? What are the facts? In Russia and Israel, the same climatic conditions? Was someone able to prove this or did you start fantasizing again? Precipitation data? Well, yes, Pupyrchaty regularly writes about rains in Israel. But at the same time he is disingenuous. You have more or less heavy rains only in winter. In the Jordan Basin, in the Negev and Eilat, rainfall is up to 20-25 mm. Just a drought. Your line of maximum precipitation lies on the longitude of Lod, where there are 800-1000 mm per year. The territory is insignificant in area. We in the Krasnodar Territory, which in itself is almost 4 times the largest in Israel, have areas in which the average annual rainfall is 3200-4000 mm. We have snow cover, even in central Russia it has 600-800 mm, and in the spring it all melts away quickly. In Israel there is nothing similar. In your country, 60% of the territory is generally desert, and the remaining 40% more than half is stony soil. Well, how do you like this “precipitation data”? What difference in emphasis do not see?
          Quote: Rumata
          Our song is good, start over ...

          I look, you do not have a single message without verbiage. And on the topic to tell you, as always, not what ...
          1. Rumata
            Rumata 2 October 2013 19: 30 New
            0
            Quote: beard999
            you more or less heavy rains occur only in the winter.

            The points.
            1. The average annual rainfall is the average that the rainfall is divided by the number of days. If in Moscow it snows in winter, rains in spring and autumn, then 90% of precipitation falls during 9-10 months, 800mm average, 9200 per year, 1000 each month. In the Golan, 1000-1200mm, 14 a year, 000% of the rainfall is useful for 90 months, 4 every month. This is roughly considered without going into details, such as snow, which is also considered precipitation. No one says that we have Colombia here, but that year, for example, in one district in the North, 3000 mm of rain fell during the week, like in Moscow for the whole year.
            2. Merkava was created for the successful conduct of hostilities in all theater of Israel, therefore, the example of the Golan, as one of the extremes. Here in one place there are almost tropics of precipitation, in another there is a desert, and the tank should work normally both here and there.
            Quote: beard999
            . In the Krasnodar Territory, which in itself is almost 4 times the largest in Israel, we have areas in which the average annual rainfall is 3200-4000 mm

            What nonsense, so much falls in the tropics, forests of the Amazon, Colombia, Oceania. The maximum that was in the Krasnodar Territory is 2700, and the MEDIUM 1600mm.


            Quote: beard999
            I look, you do not have a single message without verbiage. And on the topic to tell you, as always, not what ...

            I wrote about this more than once or twice. For example here http://topwar.ru/29511-konstruktivnye-uyazvimosti-osnovnoy-boevoy-mashiny-aoi-me
            rkava-mk4-prodolzhenie.html # comment-id-1249510
          2. beard999
            beard999 3 October 2013 17: 07 New
            0
            Quote: Rumata
            800mm average, 9200 per year, 1000 each month

            I gave the absolute numbers of the average annual precipitation for different regions of Israel. From the fact that you break them by months, the average annual figures do not change. How you calculated 1000 mm per month in Moscow is completely unclear. But your numbers are not correct. Monthly rates for Moscow are completely different http://www.rg.ru/2013/05/28/osadki.html. If you want, you can search by other months and calculate independently all the average monthly ones.
            Quote: Rumata
            For example, in one area in the North,

            I will give you a lot of such EXCLUSIVE cases in Russia (didn’t you hear anything about the floods in Siberia as a result of heavy rains?). But it’s about the average climatic conditions. I refer to the Israeli expert opinion: “2010 was the seventh consecutive year of drought in Israel. This was stated by the head of the country's Water Management Department, Professor Uri Shani at a meeting of the Knesset Commission on State Control. ” http://orisrael.do.am/news/zasukha_v_izraile/2010-11-22-14... This is 60% of the desert territory, not ours. What is there to argue about? How much snow do you have in the Golan? In our country, even in the middle zone, 150 days it is within the limits of the climatic norm, and if you take the North of Russia, it will be much longer there. And the volumes of snow? Is there a concept of spring thaw in Israel? What are you trying to argue with, I don’t understand ...
            Quote: Rumata
            Merkava was created for the successful conduct of hostilities in all theater of Israel

            Here with this, I agree completely. I never wrote anything about the patency of Merkava. A tank is a tank; it won’t get stuck in the first puddle. It is obvious. But the conversation was about something else. Pupyrchaty actually put an equal sign between your "training grounds" with the Russian everyday conditions in which BTT is operated. With this I argue. No more. How the 65-70 ton curb “Merkava Mk.4” behaved on Russian soils is completely unknown in Russian climatic conditions (throughout the country).
            Quote: Rumata
            What kind of nonsense

            In a previous message, I wrote, "In the Krasnodar Territory, which in itself is almost 4 times the largest in Israel, there are areas in which the average annual rainfall is 3200-4000 mm." Source: (type in the address bar - DOC file) festival.1september.ru/articles/582768/pril2.doc.
            Quote: Rumata
            I wrote about it not once or twice

            I do not track all your messages. And I judge solely by our direct communication.
          3. Rumata
            Rumata 3 October 2013 21: 49 New
            0
            Quote: beard999
            I gave the absolute numbers of the average annual rainfall.

            The fact is that in themselves, the average annual rainfall does not mean anything. If in one country it rains for half a year, for 3-4 months it snows, then there is less rainfall for every month. In another country, for 3 months, 90% of annual precipitation falls, therefore more rain falls each month if the conditionally average annual precipitation in both countries is equal. In Israel, each region needs to be considered separately, since after passing only 400 km, you cross 3 climatic zones. In addition to landfills in the desert, there are also on the Golan Heights, including in Winter, for a year the rain pours for a week without ceasing, and God forbid, slut. All I wanted to say was that in the winter in the north of precipitation more than 99% of the territory of the Russian Federation (figuratively speaking), tanks can do this. The fact that in Russia you can find places that no car can cross, I have never disputed
            Quote: beard999
            I do not track all your messages. And I judge solely by our direct communication.

            Well, I also can not every time they raise this topic, write sheets of text, argue and prove
  2. rero
    rero 2 October 2013 05: 25 New
    -1
    I watched the children’s potographies and didn’t understand that you were proving it, I saw the pictures on the T-72 that were built up, and does this mean that the T-72 is a bad tank? so vet in such conditions that it’s merkava that t-72 or t-90 they are all akazutsia in such a palase .. did not understand your argument against merkavi
    1. Setrac
      Setrac 2 October 2013 13: 54 New
      +1
      Quote: rero
      so vet in such conditions that it’s merkava that t-72 or t-90 they are all akazutsia in such a palase .. did not understand your argument against merkavi

      In this case, the claims are not against the Merkava, but against the puddle, which is loudly called "mud" in Israel, in the puddle in which the Merkava stands, let alone a tank or a passenger car will not get stuck.
      1. Kars
        Kars 2 October 2013 14: 04 New
        +1
        Quote: Setrac
        loudly called "mud", in the puddle in which

        )))))) Russian puddles / mud are the most meadows, dirtiest in the world)) cheers comrades)

        On my own behalf, I’ll say that Merkava will not have special problems with patency, especially in the European part of the Russian Federation, but they will be in everyone in the taiga. But what can tanks do there?
      2. Setrac
        Setrac 2 October 2013 14: 50 New
        0
        Quote: Kars
        On my own behalf, I’ll say that Merkava will not have special problems with patency, especially in the European part of the Russian Federation, but they will be in everyone in the taiga. But what can tanks do there?
        What to do western tanks in the taiga? Strictly speaking, the same thing as in the sands, to capture oil and gas-bearing areas.
      3. Kars
        Kars 2 October 2013 19: 39 New
        +1
        Quote: Setrac
        What to do western tanks in the taiga? Strictly speaking, the same thing as in the sands, to capture oil and gas-bearing areas.

        It won’t fail. Why? Taiga and its resources depend on transport connectivity. Capture of transport nodes or their destruction.
        In this case,
        Quote: Kars
        and in the taiga they will all be


        The most important thing is that against
        Quote: Kars
        From myself, I’ll say that Merkava will not have special problems with patency, especially in the European part of the Russian Federation,
      4. Setrac
        Setrac 2 October 2013 20: 45 New
        0
        Quote: Kars
        It won’t fail. Why? Taiga and its resources depend on transport connectivity. Capture of transport nodes or their destruction.

        Well, the light did not converge on the Russian Railways, you can organize logistics through the Northern Sea Route.
      5. Kars
        Kars 2 October 2013 22: 53 New
        +1
        Quote: Setrac
        Well, the light did not converge on the Russian Railways, you can organize logistics through the Northern Sea Route.

        You’re a strange person. If you already assumed that Western tanks began to have difficulties with patency in SIBERIA. So where did you want to carry something along the Northern Sea Route or do you think that they (Western tanks) were thrown into Siberia by parachute?

        Therefore, I repeat
        Quote: Kars
        and in the taiga they will be with everyone. But what can the tanks do there?
      6. Setrac
        Setrac 3 October 2013 16: 09 New
        0
        Quote: Kars
        You’re a strange person. If you already assumed that Western tanks began to have difficulties with patency in SIBERIA. So where did you want to carry something along the Northern Sea Route or do you think that they (Western tanks) were thrown into Siberia by parachute?

        Shells and diesel fuel for tanks and hamburgers for the crew.
      7. Kars
        Kars 3 October 2013 16: 30 New
        +1
        Quote: Setrac
        Shells and diesel fuel for tanks and hamburgers for the crew.

        Simply put, you don’t know? And tried to argue for the sake of argument?
        And fuel, shells and hamburgers will be taken along the same path that the tanks themselves had traveled before. And since then, there’s nothing to go on.
  3. rero
    rero 3 October 2013 03: 56 New
    -1
    you have the impression that when the jumper paidot and merkavs get stuck in pockets right away ... it's absolutely absurd. the merkav is very good. and in the summer, don’t imagine what is real for distant things. And as regards the volatility and the admixture of these tanks along the volcanic rocky places of the Golan visas, the Neva Vabshe doesn’t have sappers ..
  • beard999
    beard999 3 October 2013 17: 09 New
    0
    Quote: rero
    .not understood your argument against merkavi

    And somewhere I expressed "arguments" against "Merkava"? Do not tell me where and when it happened? Do not understand what the conversation is about?
  • ruslan207
    ruslan207 1 October 2013 19: 54 New
    0
    Ingvar 72-I have a relative who fought on Merkava 4 in the Lebanese won, he said rockets hit his tank several times and nothing survived the tank was not hit
    1. 31231
      31231 1 October 2013 21: 11 New
      +3
      rockets hit his tank several times and nothing tank survived was not hit

      Are there any rockets ?! Maybe there were grenades ?! And then the local Jews here at first flaunted that there were already over a thousand launches on Tsahal tanks in Lebanon 2006.
      In general, if you look at Syria and the fighting in Chechnya, 72-ki with DZ also hold hits. It all depends where this hit happened.
  • Revolver
    Revolver 1 October 2013 20: 22 New
    +4
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    Let the tank bring their miracle to the Nizhny Tagil training ground, and we will see how it passes through our obstacle course. Either they will fall asleep, or as Iveco-Lynx obstacles will go around. The tank is good only for the desert, in other conditions it will deflate.

    Well, you personally have refuted the nonsense about the "aggressive Israeli military". If they design tanks that are good in sands and rocky mountains, but hell knows how to behave on soggy clay or snow, then obviously that they plan to defend themselves in their region, and not to attack someone’s thread over distant lands.
    In general, it would be interesting if they were allowed to enter the tank marathon.
    1. mirag2
      mirag2 7 October 2013 10: 13 New
      0
      In other climatic zones, other people will be fighting in place of Jews — as the Islamists are fighting in Syria now, carrying out part of the multi-track effort to weaken Iran (though the climatic zone is the same).
  • Witold
    Witold 1 October 2013 22: 44 New
    +4
    It was created for Israel and the surrounding areas. Nobody is going to conquer Russia.
    1. smile
      smile 2 October 2013 01: 11 New
      0
      Witold
      Yes, no one here believes that you go crazy there and decide to throw your tanks at Russia :)))
    2. duke
      duke 2 October 2013 07: 05 New
      +1
      and thanks for that, because otherwise you will have to go through Syria, Turkey, Georgia, etc. or on a ferry from Turkish Samsung directly to Novorossiysk? ... here even the Israeli army, powerful, I do not argue, the navel will tear ... bully
  • Professor
    1 October 2013 11: 27 New
    -3
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    And in Lebanon they burned very well.

    You can see a photo or video of how they burned, or something rarely comes across.
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 1 October 2013 11: 47 New
      +6
      Quote: Professor
      You can see a photo or video of how they burned, or something rarely comes across.

      Of course, I understand that he is patriotism in Israel, but the number of tanks lost in Lebanon is not two or three. The IDF recognized 46 tanks (out of 400 involved) and 14 armored personnel carriers damaged. Among the wrecked 18 latest tanks "Merkava-4." How do you like such sweets?
      1. Kars
        Kars 1 October 2013 11: 58 New
        13
        Quote: Ingvar 72
        but the amount of lost

        distinguish between lost (destroyed) and damaged (restored)
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 1 October 2013 16: 17 New
          +1
          Quote: Kars
          distinguish between lost (destroyed) and damaged (restored)

          Recovery is possible with the possibility of evacuation. And when is she not?
          1. Professor
            1 October 2013 16: 22 New
            +3
            Quote: Ingvar 72
            Recovery is possible with the possibility of evacuation. And when is she not?

            There is no court.

          2. Pimply
            Pimply 1 October 2013 18: 48 New
            +2
            Quote: Ingvar 72
            Recovery is possible with the possibility of evacuation. And when is she not?

            In particular, the possibility of such is determined by the effectiveness of the army as a whole.
      2. Professor
        1 October 2013 12: 03 New
        -4
        Quote: Ingvar 72
        Of course, I understand that he is patriotism in Israel, but the number of tanks lost in Lebanon is not two or three. The IDF recognized 46 tanks (out of 400 involved) and 14 armored personnel carriers damaged. Among the wrecked 18 latest tanks "Merkava-4." How do you like such sweets?

        Not punched only. And here I am interested in exactly "burned".
        1. olviko
          olviko 1 October 2013 13: 08 New
          20
          Lebanon, 2006
        2. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 1 October 2013 14: 03 New
          +7
          Quote: Professor
          Not punched only. And here I am interested in exactly "burned".

          http://maxpark.com/static/u/article_image/13/05/28/tmp0qVNk3.jpeg
          Photo burned. Or is the process important to you?
          1. Professor
            1 October 2013 14: 07 New
            -9
            Quote: Ingvar 72
            Photo burned.

            Here they threatened "not bad burning", but this one was blown up by a land mine. And therefore "badly" burned.
            1. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 1 October 2013 15: 22 New
              12
              Quote: Professor
              Here they threatened "not bad burning", but this one was blown up by a land mine. And therefore "badly" burned.

              Again your Odessa little things. You clung like a bulldog to a certain phrase, and settled the same thing. This tank was hit and burned down on 09.08.06/XNUMX/XNUMX and hit by an ATGM, not a land mine.
              1. Professor
                1 October 2013 16: 37 New
                -3
                Quote: Ingvar 72
                This tank was hit and burned down on 09.08.06/XNUMX/XNUMX and hit by an ATGM, not a land mine.

                9 August

                Around 11: 00 "Merkava" MK.2 of the 847-th armored brigade was in the area of ​​the village of Aita a-Shaab. The tank lost track due to a technical breakdown or simply stood still, and at that moment an ATGM hit it. The whole crew died: Gilad Shtokelman (company commander and tank commander), Nir Cohen, Nimrod Segev and Noam Goldman. According to another version, Gilad was outside the tank, at this time he was replaced by a loader in the place of the tank commander. The tank hit a land mine, with the explosion a tower being broken, the loader was killed, the rest of the crew were injured. Gilad climbed back onto the tank and began to help the wounded, at that moment the tank was hit by ATGMs, Gilad and the wounded were killed.

                As you can see, not everything is so simple.
              2. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 1 October 2013 19: 04 New
                +7
                Quote: Professor
                According to another version, Gilad was outside the tank, at this time he was replaced by a loader in the place of the tank commander.

                I especially liked the phrase-ON ANOTHER VERSION. And how many of them are TOTAL? Perhaps you should not expect recognition from the Israeli defeat. A couple more years will pass, and the main cause of the death of this tank will be considered a fire as a result of careless handling of matches. wassat
              3. Professor
                1 October 2013 20: 37 New
                +1
                Quote: Ingvar 72
                I especially liked the phrase-ON ANOTHER VERSION. And how many of them are TOTAL? Perhaps you should not expect recognition from the Israeli defeat.

                Tighten the gray matter. fool Just a little bit. The dead cannot tell how exactly the matter was and therefore there are versions.
              4. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 1 October 2013 20: 58 New
                +3
                Quote: Professor
                The dead cannot tell how exactly the matter was and therefore there are versions.

                Versions for some reason in one direction.
          2. Turtles
            Turtles 1 October 2013 19: 19 New
            +6
            Quote: Professor

            9 August

            Around 11: 00 "Merkava" MK.2 of the 847-th armored brigade was in the area of ​​the village of Aita a-Shaab. The tank lost track due to a technical breakdown or simply stood still, and at that moment an ATGM hit it. The whole crew died: Gilad Shtokelman (company commander and tank commander), Nir Cohen, Nimrod Segev and Noam Goldman. According to another version, Gilad was outside the tank, at this time he was replaced by a loader in the place of the tank commander. The tank hit a land mine, with the explosion a tower being broken, the loader was killed, the rest of the crew were injured. Gilad climbed back onto the tank and began to help the wounded, at that moment the tank was hit by ATGMs, Gilad and the wounded were killed.

            As you can see, not everything is so simple.


            The tower in the picture is clearly in place.
    2. 31231
      31231 1 October 2013 21: 21 New
      +3
      http://maxpark.com/static/u/article_image/13/05/28/tmp0qVNk3.jpeg

      An interesting "land mine". The gooselings were in place, but the tower was torn off. Side or what?
      Professor, do not explain?
      1. Witold
        Witold 1 October 2013 22: 57 New
        -6
        Have you heard of detonation of ammunition? And if you are interested in who and how burned, then I will present about a dozen videos from YouTube, where the T-72 are burning. Do you like how Merkava burn? Maybe the smell of burning bodies is pleasant to you?
        1. 31231
          31231 1 October 2013 23: 55 New
          +2
          What ammunition ?! Carrots or 72 matches ?! As far as I know, at the bottom of the carrot there is no AZ with ammunition.
          Detonation may have been due to a fire in the fighting compartment. And yes, it could have been called a landmine. It is a pity only your guys did not help the fire system.
        2. eplewke
          eplewke 2 October 2013 09: 08 New
          -1
          Go to Vitold's enumeration ... fool
  • Pimply
    Pimply 1 October 2013 15: 18 New
    -3
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    Of course, I understand that he is patriotism in Israel, but the number of tanks lost in Lebanon is not two or three. The IDF recognized 46 tanks (out of 400 involved) and 14 armored personnel carriers damaged. Among the wrecked 18 latest tanks "Merkava-4." How do you like such sweets?

    Normal sweets. You say so, that in a real war everything should do without losses. It was a serious war against a serious opponent.


    Startled. Penetration - 24 cases out of 49 defeats, permanent losses - 5, 16 required evacuation to the rear for restoration, the rest were repaired on the spot within 48 hours. This is more than a normal result.

    There is no indestructible, indestructible, etc. tanks. According to a study by Major General Ben-Israel, the number of penetrations in the four was an order of magnitude lower than in other models (34 against 50 and 54 in the troika and deuce, respectively). The number of tankers killed has also dropped sharply compared to past wars. So, for each tank with penetration of armor on average there was one dead crew member, whereas before there were two dead.

    Well, accordingly, conclusions were drawn and KAZ was introduced.
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 1 October 2013 15: 38 New
      +7
      Quote: Pimply
      You say so, that in a real war everything should do without losses. It was a serious war against a serious opponent.

      I don’t say that. The fact that all the tanks are on fire is understandable to a fool. In this case, I do not like the fact that this tank is positioned as the most-most. But he was used only in punitive operations, with complete superiority in the air. Tank battles with outdated Soviet tanks should not be given as an example, these are different weight categories.
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 1 October 2013 18: 52 New
        +5
        Quote: Ingvar 72
        I don’t say that. The fact that all the tanks are on fire is understandable to a fool. In this case, I do not like the fact that this tank is positioned as the most-most. But he was used only in punitive operations, with complete superiority in the air. Tank battles with outdated Soviet tanks should not be given as an example, these are different weight categories.

        Dear, have you read the article? It says that this is the NEWEST TANK IN THE ISRAELI ARMY. This is an ISRAEL article for an ISRAELI Resusr translated into Russian. There is no - the most-most, there is no - it has no analogues. Here we are talking about a specific machine - Merkava 4, and not about Merkava's line of takas in general. If you pay attention, from the lips of the Israelis who are sitting on this forum, it never sounded - the most. You say it yourself, you believe it yourself, and you argue with it yourself. You yourself are not funny?
    2. Saburov
      Saburov 1 October 2013 16: 30 New
      16
      Since when did Lebanon become a serious opponent for Israel, your tactics of ground operations come down to the same as Sharikov’s, divide everything, first iron the aircraft, and then the brave Jewish soldiers, achieve everything that the aircraft did not achieve on iron chariots. even in such circumstances, the Lebanese have time to hang a few lyuli to Israel. As always, Jewish self-promotion, oh God forbid, really meet a serious opponent, you light up in full, your bulldozers called Merkava will become good bunkers or rooted in artillery, but not a tank.
      1. eplewke
        eplewke 1 October 2013 16: 36 New
        +7
        Well said! good
      2. Pimply
        Pimply 1 October 2013 18: 53 New
        -3
        Quote: Saburov
        Since when did Lebanon become a serious opponent for Israel, your tactics of ground operations come down to the same as Sharikov’s, divide everything, first iron the aircraft, and then the brave Jewish soldiers, achieve everything that the aircraft did not achieve on iron chariots. even in such circumstances, the Lebanese have time to hang a few lyuli to Israel. As always, Jewish self-promotion, oh God forbid, really meet a serious opponent, you light up in full, your bulldozers called Merkava will become good bunkers or rooted in artillery, but not a tank.


        Since then, dear man, how you became a boor, and the Israeli army has learned to respect the enemy - that is, from the very beginning. So, have you learned to communicate with people, or are you still trying to twinkle stars in the eyes and bend your fingers?
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 1 October 2013 19: 31 New
          12
          Quote: Pimply
          and the Israeli army has learned to respect the enemy - that is, from the very beginning

          You mean biblical respect
          17 so kill all the male children, and kill all the women who know the husband on the male bed;
          18 And leave all the female children who have not known the masculine bed alive for themselves; - Old Testament, Numbers, ch. 31.
          Or modern The Israeli general Moshe Dayan said in those years: “Palestine no longer exists. The case is completed. I would have to say “unfortunately,” but I’m not sorry. ”What respect do you mean?
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 1 October 2013 19: 39 New
            -1
            Quote: Ingvar 72
            What respect do you mean?

            Will we recall Princess Olga, for example, and her attitude towards women and children? Or Novgorod and the capture of Kazan under Tsar Ivan the Terrible? Maybe we recall the war in Afghanistan, during which several dozen times more people died than in all 70 years of the Arab-Israeli conflict? It is unlikely that you will want to remember this.
            I spoke of a sober assessment of the enemy.
            I turned to a specific person who was previously rude and not shy. You, not knowing the background, are trying to get into someone else's conversation. Want to continue?
          2. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 1 October 2013 20: 20 New
            +2
            Quote: Pimply
            I spoke of a sober assessment of the enemy.

            I am not aware of your grabs with Saburov. If on the topic, then so many people have not died in Afghanistan. And now they remember the Shuravi with respect. The capture of Kazan, so where are the Tatars now? And about the Israeli kindness and respect go LEGENDS. And judging by your position, excuse me of course, but the proverb comes to mind - every sandpiper praises its swamp. Admit you are a Jew?
          3. Pimply
            Pimply 1 October 2013 21: 39 New
            0
            Quote: Ingvar 72
            And now the Shuravi are remembered there with respect.

            Sure? But in Afghanistan, not very much. September 29, for example, in Afghanistan, mourning events were held in memory of the victims of communist rule. The theme of "respect for the shuravi" is refuted, for example, by the traveler Varlamov, who recently visited Afghanistan, who specially raised this topic.
            The number of victims among the civilian population is from 670 thousand to 2 million people. About 200 thousand dead from the Mujahideen.

            The total number of all those killed in the Arab-Israeli conflict - without dividing into groups and social statuses for 70 years is estimated at 51000 people.

            About respect for shuravi - I would be glad to testify.

            Quote: Ingvar 72
            . The capture of Kazan, so where are the Tatars now?

            Great live. But will you risk recalling historical evidence of that period? Judging by the attempts to translate the arrows - no, you will not risk it.
          4. kavkaz8888
            kavkaz8888 1 October 2013 23: 10 New
            +3
            Varlamov was just writing (and a photo) about what Rusov remembered kindly. It seems he had about the tunnel.
          5. Pimply
            Pimply 2 October 2013 00: 41 New
            +1
            Varlamov: As elsewhere in the East, it is very difficult to understand their real attitude towards you. You tell them that you are Russian, they: "Shuravi! Americans are bad, and you are brave and noble warriors!" You say that an American: "The Russians are bad! It's all because of them. How good that you came! Now we have almost heaven on earth." It is clear that for them all are invaders and infidels.
    3. Setrac
      Setrac 1 October 2013 21: 31 New
      +6
      Quote: Pimply
      Will we recall Princess Olga, for example, and her attitude towards women and children?

      This is the myth-making of German historians, not true.
      Quote: Pimply
      Or Novgorod and the capture of Kazan under Tsar Ivan the Terrible?

      In European countries at that time they killed an order of magnitude more, and Asian ones as well.
      Quote: Pimply
      Maybe we recall the war in Afghanistan, during which several dozen times more people died than in all 70 years of the Arab-Israeli conflict?

      It’s just a lie, I don’t know if you are lying intentionally or unknowingly.
    4. duke
      duke 2 October 2013 07: 20 New
      +2
      The pimple suffered like Ostap ... the difference is that neither Olga nor Ivan referred to St. writing to justify their shares, so comparison is invalid. It is Israel's neighbors who love to refer to their "scriptures", about the infidels - giaurs - beat them on the necks, beat them on the fingers, etc. The pimple apparently remained in the times of the Cold War, not noticing that the situation had changed dramatically, hence the attempts at wit ...
  • eplewke
    eplewke 1 October 2013 16: 35 New
    +3
    Professionals climbed ... The heavy artillery of the sixth column pulled itself up ...
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 1 October 2013 18: 54 New
      -3
      Quote: eplewke
      Professionals climbed ... The heavy artillery of the sixth column pulled itself up ...

      Did you serve Fought? Saw merkava or at least some kind of weapon nearby? Judging by the majority of commentators, it is doubtful. Does this mean that you talked about talking about yourself?
      1. Saburov
        Saburov 1 October 2013 21: 37 New
        10
        I served and fought, and I found the end of Afghanistan, and so far in business, I have seen MK 3 in the context of a dissected frog, so what? Do I now need to show a certificate to every advocate of Jewish capitalist property?
      2. eplewke
        eplewke 2 October 2013 09: 14 New
        -1
        I'm talking about you stupid man! Yes, I served! Yes, I have a makar in a borochka car. Yes, and I can not stand such evil pseudo-Russian trolls like YOU !!!
  • alone
    alone 1 October 2013 21: 51 New
    +2
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    Of course, I understand that he is patriotism in Israel, but the number of tanks lost in Lebanon is not two or three. The IDF recognized 46 tanks (out of 400 involved) and 14 armored personnel carriers damaged. Among the wrecked 18 latest tanks "Merkava-4." How do you like such sweets?


    only 5 merkas were irretrievably lost. Of these, merkav-4 was only 2. one was blown up on a landmine, another was destroyed by ptrs. of 400 5 - a little bit more than 1%.
    I personally think a great indicator.
  • Sirocco
    Sirocco 1 October 2013 11: 57 New
    17
    Pan Professor I welcome you, as I said there are no invulnerable tanks, but there are better ones. And as an option for testing your tank, REAL BATTLE CONDITIONS, I propose that as a gesture of goodwill in Israel, you can put your Carrots to the Syrians, with crews, then it will be possible to talk about the superiority of your equipment over anyone else's. While there are test drives there are Russian tanks. The results are versatile, from which a conclusion is drawn. And so this is your word against ours, one verbiage, and writing.
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 1 October 2013 15: 19 New
      -13 qualifying.
      Quote: Sirocco
      Pan Professor I welcome you, as I said there are no invulnerable tanks, but there are better ones. And as an option for testing your tank, in REAL BATTLE CONDITIONS, I propose to put your Carrots to the Syrians, with crews, as a gesture of goodwill in Israel, then you can talk about the superiority of your equipment over anyone else's. While there are test drives there are Russian tanks. The results are versatile, from which a conclusion is drawn. And so this is your word against ours, one verbiage, and writing.


      Why would Israel supply its tanks to a direct enemy?
      1. duke
        duke 2 October 2013 07: 33 New
        +2
        doesn’t catch up with Pupyr, the political instinct is not very clear that when his bearded friends, builders of the caliphate paid by the Saudis, or the Turks building Osmania of the second spill come to power in Syria, Assad will seem like a nice guy to whom Merkava can be put ... even Babam drove into a situation and called the Iranian president, because it’s not just that. Comrade Obama just realized it was time for these guys to create a counterweight.
    2. 31231
      31231 1 October 2013 21: 33 New
      +1
      put your Carrots to the Syrians, you can with the crews,


      I wonder if the Jews will just as desperate to fight in the streets of Damascus ?! Or will they wait until the ATS infantry squeezes out the wahs, and they themselves work from 500-800 meters ?!
  • Sirocco
    Sirocco 1 October 2013 12: 17 New
    15
    Quote: Professor
    You can see a photo or video of how they burned, or something rarely comes across.

    You are disingenuous Pan, I suggest watching video selection, there is better quality, but I settled on the collection.
    1. Professor
      1 October 2013 13: 38 New
      -7
      Quote: Sirocco
      You are disingenuous Pan, I suggest watching video selection, there is better quality, but I settled on the collection.

      0-36 Obsrtrel Merkava Baby, not lit
      37- landmine
      Continue?
      1: 51- fire in the engine, extinguished, the tank repaired and returned to service
      2: 10- not Merkava

      Well, where about "burn"? I've been looking for it for a long time.
      1. eplewke
        eplewke 1 October 2013 16: 40 New
        +5
        Well, where are your facts, Professor? We see only words! One was repaired, the second was repaired, the third wasn’t at all foolish, the fourth engine began to flutter, and the fifth got up and flew away ... In general, in 2006 Israel scattered all in Lebanon with bayonet-knives ...
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 1 October 2013 18: 55 New
          0
          Remember what exactly stopped the Israeli offensive in Lebanon? As far as I remember, only a UN resolution.
          And since then, the northern border has been suspiciously quiet. Apparently because Israel "lost". Five tanks of irrecoverable losses - apparently a huge number. 8) For you, I think, and a lined caterpillar would be considered an incredible success.
          1. Saburov
            Saburov 1 October 2013 21: 51 New
            13
            I will repeat myself a little. The IDF carefully sawed out all the Syrian air defense. At the same time, having spent not a frail number of drones used as meat. On the ground, Israeli tanks with at least three times the numerical advantage have achieved only a nail in the ass. With grief in half, a thousand Israeli tanks managed to encircle the 1st Syrian Division, consisting of 250 tanks. The Syrians, who had already spent all the shells and knocked out one and a half hundred Israeli tanks, had to abandon 200 of their tanks, half of which were serviceable. Israel, which decided that it had already won the war, did not even suspect that it was going to it from Damascus. Elite units armed with new T-72s rushed from the flank to the location of the "victorious" Israelis. "Pattons" were stretched on the very fucking mind and spread their legs in front of the araps. Having successfully frolicked the T-72 regiment began to return back to Damascus, and the offended Jews came up with a cunning plan of how to catch these "seventy-two". In pursuit of them (the wise Israeli leadership decided that the Syrians were "retreating"), several more Patton battalions were thrown. It seems that everything was going smoothly, as, suddenly, on the road near the village of Sultan-Yakub, T-55 tanks of the 58th brigade began to perdol them from all sides. The unfair battle in which the Israeli Pattons had to flee, the soldiers will more than once reckon with their wise government. Now it was the turn of the Araps to launch a counterstrike, when suddenly the American delegates to the United Nations were hammering in their ass and they began to ask for a ceasefire. The truce was scheduled for 12:00 on June 11. Both sides rushed to the attack. Heaps of helicopters flew from both sides, giving in to the shushpanzers fighting on the ground. A well-aimed Syrian tanker on a T-62 even managed to shoot down one of these helicopters with cannon fire. The rest of the Syrian troops located along the border met their truce there, without launching a counterattack and believing the UN that the Jews would stop their attacks. For the Israelis, UN assistance came in handy.
            1. Saburov
              Saburov 1 October 2013 21: 55 New
              +3
              Therefore, whom the UN saved was still a big question, the Jews simply sensed a big storm, and here they merged in the quiet as usual.
            2. Pimply
              Pimply 1 October 2013 22: 06 New
              -1
              Quote: Saburov
              A well-aimed Syrian tankman on T-62 with gun fire even managed to bring down one of these helicopters.

              About how a helicopter from a berdank in Iraq shot down?

              Tell me, is the presence of Israeli troops near Damascus, which, as a result of the counteroffensive, actually swept away the Syrian and Iraqi units, is now called "almost a victory for Syria"? Tell me, are you really an officer? Do not joke?
            3. Saburov
              Saburov 1 October 2013 22: 22 New
              +4
              Read more carefully, your deeply wise leadership, decided that the capture of Damascus would only aggravate the already military-economic situation of your country, and to take the city is one thing, and to keep it completely different, and even if he didn’t work for you, the military officer worked for the USSR and the fact that the whole Arab world, and not just the Arab one, was already sharpening knives and everything else that could shoot and stab at you, so gentlemen Jews, you yourself have turned up a hornet’s nest with your territorial claims.
            4. Pimply
              Pimply 1 October 2013 22: 35 New
              -4
              Quote: Saburov
              Read more carefully, your deeply wise leadership, decided that the capture of Damascus would only aggravate the already military-economic situation of your country, and to take the city is one thing, and to keep it completely different, and even if he didn’t work for you, the military officer worked for the USSR and the fact that the whole Arab world, and not just the Arab one, was already sharpening knives and everything else that could shoot and stab at you, so gentlemen Jews, you yourself have turned up a hornet’s nest with your territorial claims.


              Do you know how the Arab world sharpened knives before? Did it help anything? Based on your logic, white can be called black.
            5. Saburov
              Saburov 1 October 2013 23: 02 New
              +8
              But then whatever you may say, this land is conquered by you, or should you be reminded of the Canaanites or the builders of Jericho Nabateev, whom you cut and elevated on this earth?
            6. Pimply
              Pimply 2 October 2013 00: 45 New
              -7
              Russia is also largely conquered. Like the United States, Britain, and many other countries. AND? You want to say that something is wrong with this?
              Let us recall all the wars of conquest of all states? I remember very well the history of the Russian state, I have part of my relatives actively helped to grow Russian territories. AND?
            7. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 2 October 2013 07: 23 New
              +3
              Quote: Pimply
              Russia is also largely conquered. Like the United States, Britain, and many other countries. AND? You want to say that something is wrong with this?

              Since you well remember the history, the answer, WHERE is the indigenous population of the countries conquered by the Anglo-Saxons, French? And with examples of Jewish attitudes toward Aborigines, the whole Bible is speckled. Do not be unfounded.
            8. duke
              duke 2 October 2013 07: 47 New
              +3
              yes, the ability of a pimp to create enemies is incredible, he will even be able to make an anti-Semite out of a Jew ... request I imagine how his relatives were growing Ross. territories, which are interesting, is Princess Olga, or even Ivan the Terrible himself, hehe, really hooked up on his relatives? Then who and to whom did they grow the territories?
            9. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 2 October 2013 12: 24 New
              +1
              Quote: duke
              unbelievable, even he will be able to make an anti-Semite from a Jew ..

              To be honest, you don’t even have to try there, the parable of the Golem is an example of this.
  • Andrey Yuryevich
    Andrey Yuryevich 1 October 2013 20: 29 New
    +2
    Yes, something like this ...
    1. Aaron Zawi
      Aaron Zawi 1 October 2013 20: 47 New
      +3
      Quote: Andrew Y.
      Yes, something like this ...

      Please note that the gun is covered, the Arab is quite calmly hooligan, as he knows that it is forbidden to shoot at him while he is unarmed. So the "heroes" are raging at the checkpoint. It is interesting that when a dozen magavniks (BB) arrive there, they will scatter like cockroaches.
      1. Rider
        Rider 1 October 2013 22: 19 New
        +2
        Quote: Aron Zaavi
        Please note that the gun is sheathed.


        it is on the trunk of someone put a bucket.
        but not at all sheathed.
        Looks like he drove into the store or turned away the locker at a construction site.

        Do you often leave tanks without protection?

        and vaabsche, a very interesting photo.
        incomprehensible.
        it is quite possible that the tank broke away from the infantry and for some time was left alone, so local aborigines dispersed.
        if there had been a continuation in the form of a blast or arson (they could have set fire to paints as well), then confirmation would certainly have appeared.

        I think this situation was resolved safely for the crew and the tank
  • mirag2
    mirag2 7 October 2013 10: 19 New
    0
    That's it.
    And there’s another interesting film about the Israeli tank campaign in Lebanon in several series, there’s a fairy tale there!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7s5lnjXR5s
    Here is a link to the movie
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KL1cII9897U
  • il grand casino
    il grand casino 1 October 2013 11: 43 New
    22
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    Quote: Mechanic
    Merkava is not a bad tank and very dangerous

    And in Lebanon, they burned very well. RPG-29, however, is more dangerous.


    And in Grozny my brother burned on t-72 ... from one hit of RPG-7. And what to conclude that the t-72 is shit? All tanks burn ... no perfect armor
  • Pimply
    Pimply 1 October 2013 15: 02 New
    0
    All tanks are on fire so they don’t talk about it. The question is actual losses (there were five irretrievable ones), training of crews (increased the number of exercises), and learning lessons (delivered by KAZ).
  • ruslan207
    ruslan207 1 October 2013 19: 50 New
    +1
    Ingvar 72 RU 

    How much is this?
    With RPG 29 and T-90, or Leo will also burn, depending on where else you can go to the frontal projection, RPG-29 may not even kill
  • Rumata
    Rumata 1 October 2013 19: 59 New
    +1
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    And in Lebanon, they burned very well. RPG-29, however, is more dangerous.

    There was no Trophy in Lebanon, and any tanks are on fire. If you do not understand this, then read nothing more serious than murzilki
  • Witold
    Witold 1 October 2013 22: 38 New
    -8
    RPG-29 is also dangerous for the T-72. They also burn very well in Syria.
    1. igor67
      igor67 2 October 2013 00: 05 New
      +7
      [quote = Vitold] RPG-29 is also dangerous for the T-72, They also burn very well in Syria.
      With all the understanding that this tank could have fought against Israel, I would have deleted this video in the place of moderators, it’s not pleasant to watch the driver’s torment and death,
      1. Alex 241
        Alex 241 2 October 2013 00: 10 New
        +8
        Hi Igor, a cannibal video, not so much about the tank, but about this unfortunate tanker!
        1. igor67
          igor67 2 October 2013 00: 22 New
          +4
          Quote: Alex 241
          Hi Igor, a cannibal video, not so much about the tank, but about this unfortunate tanker!

          Hi Sasha, I agree one hundred percent! Not only that, his leg was torn off by him and finished off. I can’t sediment before going to bed now!
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 2 October 2013 01: 39 New
            +1
            War is not the most beautiful thing at all.
        2. Professor
          2 October 2013 08: 32 New
          +1
          Quote: Alex 241
          Hi Igor, a cannibal video, not so much about the tank, but about this unfortunate tanker!

          and about his comrade who made his legs and threw the driver to tear to pieces urooodam
    2. Saburov
      Saburov 2 October 2013 00: 38 New
      +6
      Here is stsuka, jumped out and ran away, threw the mechanic and did not pull out the third one, he would have shot this one!
    3. Aleks tv
      Aleks tv 2 October 2013 00: 46 New
      +7
      Quote: Vitold
      RPG-29 is dangerous

      Strange explosion of a strange tank.

      But that is not the point. And the point is not in the tank ...
      The video itself is filth, as well as those who filmed it.
    4. duke
      duke 2 October 2013 07: 57 New
      0
      but do you seem to like the smell of burnt meat? What was the shadow cast on the fence?
  • Witold
    Witold 1 October 2013 22: 42 New
    -7
    And here's where you can see exactly how they shoot from RPG-29
  • Aleks tv
    Aleks tv 1 October 2013 12: 46 New
    11
    Quote: Mechanic
    Merkava is not a bad tank and very dangerous

    Quote: Mechanic
    And you can’t relate to them with neglect.

    Well said, Eugene.

    About the article: if you throw out the bombastic hellukha, then a very interesting report came out.

    I would like to tag one photo ...
    Now many are trying to put a helmet on a tanker.
    Here's about the head protection you need:
    - a place for an internal headset with good headphones.
    - an open forehead and a small open strip of soft forehead (and only above the front edge of the helmet). So it is quite comfortable to aim and use devices and prisms. And not what they are trying to push us now in connection with universal unification.
    Crews should have their own "hat" ...

    1. Pimply
      Pimply 1 October 2013 15: 21 New
      +4
      The crews of the armored personnel carrier - the commander, machine gunners, and the driver - also wear these.
    2. Armata
      Armata 1 October 2013 22: 00 New
      +4
      Quote: Aleks tv
      I would like to tag one photo ...
      Now many are trying to put a helmet on a tanker.
      Here's about the head protection you need:
      - a place for an internal headset with good headphones.
      - an open forehead and a small open strip of soft forehead (and only above the front edge of the helmet). So it is quite comfortable to aim and use devices and prisms. And not what they are trying to push us now in connection with universal unification.
      Crews should have their own "hat" ...
      Hi Aleksey. I have always said that the main enemy is neglect and hatred. It is necessary to take all the best that the Israelites have and add their own.
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 1 October 2013 22: 17 New
        0
        In general, this is what we are talking about.
      2. Aleks tv
        Aleks tv 1 October 2013 22: 23 New
        +1
        Quote: Mechanic
        the main enemy is neglect and hatred. It is necessary to take all the best that the Israelites have and add their own.

        Greetings, Eugene.
        Glad to hear that.

        I completely agree about the "enemies".
        And all the best - be sure to take! Even if they don’t give lol . And the best is for ALL, not just the Israelis.
        yes
      3. Pimply
        Pimply 1 October 2013 22: 36 New
        0
        By the way, Zhenya, is there anything interesting on the Russian project? Well, besides those high-profile statements on TV. Apparently, they should soon introduce, no?
    3. Alex 241
      Alex 241 1 October 2013 22: 51 New
      +2
      Lesh hello, here's the cowboy outfit.
      1. Aleks tv
        Aleks tv 1 October 2013 23: 06 New
        +1
        Quote: Alex 241
        Lesh hello, here's the cowboy outfit.

        Hi Sanya.

        A cowboy is better than nothing.
        The question is how effective it is and how comfortable it is to "crawl" inside (working with mechanisms).
        I look forward to hearing from the guys from the 20 team ...
        wink
        1. Alex 241
          Alex 241 1 October 2013 23: 14 New
          +2
          Lesh, according to my helmet, they again cost half measures in my opinion, for me such a device is better.
          1. Aleks tv
            Aleks tv 1 October 2013 23: 33 New
            +2
            Quote: Alex 241
            again cost half measures

            This is yes.
            Well, as usual.

            And the device is slightly corrected (for tankers) by Nana:
            Everywhere it is softer inside (and the forehead, and on the neck and in the headphones) ... often you have to "bury your head" about all sorts of crap. And without a forehead, finally, nothing.
            repeat
            Fintiflushka on top - to anything, will interfere with aiming and observation.
            And we don't have a microphone, only laryngas (two bulldozes are pressed against the throat in the area of ​​the vocal cords). On your first photo about "Cowboy" they are clearly visible.
            When "working" with them you tighten the belt all the way and they are pressed. Not ice, of course, but you can hear it well in TPU and hands are free, as well as the entire muzzle of the face.
            If on the march, then the belt was weakened for convenience, and when connected, it was slightly pressed to the throat with two fingers of one hand.
            Communication, as usual - simplex. To enter the network on the TPU 2 tangent of the keyboard: the upper one is the ether, the lower one is the crew of the tank. There are different modes.
            Tantenta dangles fastened fastened to a button-down jumpsuit.
            Habit...
            wink
            Sanya, how about you in "heaven"? Microphone?
            1. Alex 241
              Alex 241 1 October 2013 23: 53 New
              +2
              I know Lesh about laryngas, Dad always shaved in the evening, otherwise he was very irritated by them. I gave this "pot" as an example, so to speak, the direction of thought. microphone.
              1. Aleks tv
                Aleks tv 2 October 2013 00: 31 New
                +1
                Quote: Alex 241
                and bliss if there’s a microphone in the mask, but there are helmets with a remote microphone.

                I understood about both options.
                Thank you, Sanya.
                yes
                1. Alex 241
                  Alex 241 2 October 2013 00: 41 New
                  +2
                  Lesh, yes it would be for what laughing Remember: Pine, I forgot to switch the lever. Classic! laughing
                2. Aleks tv
                  Aleks tv 2 October 2013 00: 52 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Alex 241
                  Pine, I forgot to switch the lever. Classic!

                  Ага.
                  yes
                  Not only the film, but the book is well written.
                3. Alex 241
                  Alex 241 2 October 2013 00: 58 New
                  +3
                  Lesh is that rare case when both the book and the film are on top. The truth in the book is more tragic.
      2. Pimply
        Pimply 2 October 2013 00: 59 New
        0
        Too many regular headsets.
        1. Alex 241
          Alex 241 2 October 2013 01: 00 New
          0
          Hi Zhen. What do you mean?
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 2 October 2013 01: 45 New
            0
            Make a budget blotch. I to this. Therefore, it’s not an ordinary helmet, but a blotch on the headset.
            1. Alex 241
              Alex 241 2 October 2013 01: 48 New
              0
              Zhenya, and here I am about this. They reported, distinguished themselves, counted, shed tears.
        2. Alex 241
          Alex 241 2 October 2013 01: 07 New
          0
          Zhen, well, this is no reason not to do something better. And then they blinded a pan with "brakes" on the headphones! technological breakthrough!
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 2 October 2013 01: 46 New
            0
            Not a reason. But then they finally realized that the money is not endless, you know 8) Then it finally dawned that they could end. Therefore they cut the budget, simplify it, take pension contributions to the budget for the year
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. igor67
        igor67 1 October 2013 10: 04 New
        +4
        [quote = Papakiko] [quote = Hudo] the most train trains in the world [/
        At the expense of the fan, my guess is most likely the mentality, with air conditioning, everywhere even in the tank, and we have fans everywhere at work, the locals love them .. Well, what’s the wrong switch for you? In your photo, the plastic is matched at a very inappropriate moment, or do you think if a super pauper means only a number and a tatch ?? But what about practicality?
        1. Papakiko
          Papakiko 1 October 2013 10: 16 New
          +3
          Quote: igor67
          At the expense of the fan

          The issue is not the presence or absence of a fan or super-conchionaire, but in the form of blades and, accordingly, fan performance. It is probably unnecessary to remind you how the first propellers and modern ones looked on turboprops.
          Quote: igor67
          Well, a toggle switch

          I'm talking about designer refinements and not about the material from which they are made. There are completely fake veschi in the plane with drumsticks and stainless steel.
          Where is the driver’s ignition key ?:
          Why did you ignore the pen to discuss?
          I am very concerned about this question, igor67.

          For example, in the reference, the separation of type-99 from the tea house is in the link.
          http://bmpd.livejournal.com/477960.html
          1. igor67
            igor67 1 October 2013 10: 23 New
            +2
            [quote = Papakiko] [quote = igor67] At the expense of the fan [/ quote]
            The issue is not the presence or absence of a fan or super-conchionaire, but in the form of blades and, accordingly, fan performance. It is probably unnecessary to remind you how the first propellers and modern ones looked on turboprops.
            [quote = igor67] Well, and the toggle switch [/ quote]
            I'm talking about designer refinements and not about the material from which they are made. There are completely fake veschi in the plane with drumsticks and stainless steel.
            Where is the driver’s ignition key ?:
            Why did you ignore the pen to discuss?
            I am very concerned about this question, igor67.
            You won’t scare me with a crooked starter, but you have already forgotten why all the same the T34 became the best tank, although the German ones were ...., once again it’s just the one in production
            1. Papakiko
              Papakiko 1 October 2013 10: 44 New
              +1
              Quote: igor67
              once again just the one in production

              Igor, what’s so big about stamping the blades of a conventional fan and a superstructured handle on the ceiling?
              I'm not saying that all the "minced meat" of carrots can be replaced with:
              But the little things hidden in NewAnsakh subsequently bulge in various unpleasant things.
              It is a pity that Vadim Smirnov deleted my post above, but I will move.
              In photo No. 2 there is a handle on the ceiling (obviously not traumatic) and the fan of the loader (with low performance 3x hazardous (a la hello from the 70s) although photo No. 5 is even worse):

              1. Cat
                Cat 1 October 2013 11: 00 New
                +6
                Quote: Papakiko
                Igor, what’s so big about stamping the blades of a conventional fan and a superstructured handle on the ceiling?
                I'm not saying that all the "minced meat" of carrots can be replaced with:
                But the little things hidden in NewAnsakh subsequently bulge in various unpleasant things.

                Jews - they are such Jews ... If the ancient fans are replaced with modern ones, and the handrails bent from fittings are replaced by "designer" ones, then the price of "Carrots" will somehow grow imperceptibly one and a half times, or even more (with the same performance characteristics ). Well, something, but Jews are very good at counting money, therefore, when creating armored vehicles, they do not bother with highly artistic delights =)
          2. sashka
            sashka 1 October 2013 12: 09 New
            +2
            Only a chair on wheels is not enough. As in the office .. Maybe it's even for the best. You quickly get used to good things (like the Internet). Then the map and the compass seem to be products not from this world .. Let them get used to it, but the Yankes have long been "addicted" to this or this .. (Zuid-Zuid-West. Don't be smart, show it with your hand) .. As in a joke.
      2. leon-iv
        leon-iv 1 October 2013 10: 18 New
        +6
        The designer who replaces the touch screen with the toggle switches can be put on the wall as a pest.
  • eplewke
    eplewke 1 October 2013 09: 44 New
    -1
    Aha ha !!! Wunderwaffle in Israel ... laughing It's like a mighty Lithuanian army ...
  • lelikas
    lelikas 1 October 2013 10: 45 New
    +1
    But not for the sake of trolling - but nevertheless - the first photo - the hatch above the flap - it was as if they were drilled at first, and with drills of different diameters - why so?
  • Constantine
    Constantine 1 October 2013 13: 23 New
    +6
    Quote: ed65b
    ... One moment. author, the name should be changed to "The most ultra-modern supertank in the world with the most supertankers."
    Sour.


    I agree. In general, the article smacks of populism and an attempt to whiten the occupiers of the Palestinian territories))
    1. OffenroR
      OffenroR 1 October 2013 18: 38 New
      -2
      Comrades "occupiers" sleep and see how to send the Palestinians to ...
      1. igor67
        igor67 1 October 2013 18: 55 New
        +2
        [quote = OffenroR] Comrades "occupiers" sleep and see how to send the Palestinians to ...
        Dear people ... K, if you can’t distinguish between a Jew from Morocco and an Arab, don’t write anymore here, especially since this video has already been discussed twice
        1. OffenroR
          OffenroR 1 October 2013 19: 45 New
          +7
          And I am to blame that the "local" (that is, real, not European "snow white") Jews and Arabs are all one face one face? And go with the Arabs to the bathhouse ..... and you will understand that you are no different from each other tongue
  • The comment was deleted.
  • air wolf
    air wolf 2 October 2013 10: 46 New
    0
    How much mutosis can one and the same do, merkava is better and better, but all tanks are the same, everyone burns the same, if the cumulative ATGM or RPG stream gets into ammunition, then all the kapets. Just the Jews guessed to pack the crew and back-set farther behind the engine, ripped off our BMP-1. No armor can save from tandem ammunition. During the modernization of our T-72 and others, it is necessary to carry the ammunition down and isolate, do not forget to provide knock-out screens, and this is an alteration of the entire tank. Therefore, it is easier to make an infantry fighting vehicle or a city tank with 30 mm cannons, sensors, a rocket launcher and machine guns, provided that the ammunition is placed correctly.
  • Silkway0026
    Silkway0026 1 October 2013 09: 02 New
    14
    The most modern tank on the most dangerous border


    rzhunimagu !!!!! the guy charges himself, manually !!! and lie on the blue eye that
    in Merkava 4 everything is computerized
    .... and in fact
    the cell opens and from there I send the shell to the barrel
    .
    How many decades ago did we go through this?
    1. Professor
      1 October 2013 09: 13 New
      -13 qualifying.
      Quote: Silkway0026
      How many decades ago did we go through this?

      Tell please how it was a few decades ago. wink
      1. smersh70
        smersh70 1 October 2013 09: 33 New
        16
        Please give me at least one terkava to the CIS space .. we’ll check it here and tell you how modern it is ... smile and it’s not interesting to fight against boys with machine guns ......
        1. vahatak
          vahatak 1 October 2013 11: 26 New
          +8
          I support. Give them Merkava !!! There is someone from the government of Israel. Give the guys Merkava !!! Better one that weighs 67 tons.
          1. smersh70
            smersh70 1 October 2013 11: 46 New
            +5
            Quote: vahatak
            Give them Merkava


            not long left laughing
            Quote: vahatak
            Better one that weighs 67 tons.

            but hold on when she goes to you fellow
            1. vahatak
              vahatak 1 October 2013 12: 17 New
              +3
              But will Merkava withstand the impact of a 152 mm shell?
              1. labendik
                labendik 1 October 2013 12: 52 New
                +6
                Maybe it's better than an atomic bomb, the T-72 can withstand it.
              2. OffenroR
                OffenroR 1 October 2013 18: 50 New
                +3
                Of course .... after hitting a stone shell of 15,2 cm in diameter in a radius of 10 cm, nothing remains alive .... what the hell is Merkava. tongue
          2. OffenroR
            OffenroR 1 October 2013 18: 47 New
            -1
            Quote: vahatak
            I support. Give them Merkava !!! There is someone from the government of Israel. Give the guys Merkava !!! Better one that weighs 67 tons.

            Yeah .... and after the tests, Armenia, this tank will take into service .... will show at parades wassat
        2. Pimply
          Pimply 1 October 2013 15: 22 New
          +3
          Boys with machine guns - are they bearded uncles from Hezbollah and Hamas with ATGM "cornet"?
          1. 31231
            31231 1 October 2013 21: 58 New
            +1
            Do not tell me how much even the Hezbalons of the Cornets had there?
            1. Pimply
              Pimply 1 October 2013 22: 16 New
              -1
              According to various estimates, the number of launches of various systems on Israeli tanks amounted to about 500.

              The exact numbers were not indicated anywhere, but there were many of them. Here, for example, are pictures from Radania.
              1. 31231
                31231 1 October 2013 23: 04 New
                0
                But the installation or missiles could not capture something?
                Boxes from under Cornets and what? If, according to your statements, the Cornets were used in significant quantities, then it was realistic to capture trophies, not boxes from under them.
                1. Pimply
                  Pimply 2 October 2013 01: 04 New
                  0
                  Quote: 31231
                  But the installation or missiles could not capture something?
                  Boxes from under Cornets and what? If, according to your statements, the Cornets were used in significant quantities, then it was realistic to capture trophies, not boxes from under them

                  I brought you one photo from several. Once again, you judge by one photograph and build yourself some kind of fabulous reality. There was a show for journalists, and a photo of the machine with the installations, the installation itself from the cornet and empty tubes, and statements by the guys from Hezbollah during a visit to Moscow, and statements by the Syrians. Keep dancing fool - it suits you.
      2. eplewke
        eplewke 1 October 2013 09: 50 New
        +6
        Yes, the T-72 of the first release already had an automatic loader. It’s not difficult to calculate how many years ago it was ...
        1. Professor
          1 October 2013 09: 53 New
          0
          Quote: eplewke
          Yes, the T-72 of the first release already had an automatic loader.

          In your opinion there is no AZ at Merkava due to the technological lag of Israeli industry? wink
          1. eplewke
            eplewke 1 October 2013 10: 18 New
            +5
            well yes. Probably. the concept of rate of fire and unloading personnel is not so important for the tank - it is, they came up with it for fun ... Don’t tell comrade professor.
            1. Nayhas
              Nayhas 1 October 2013 10: 28 New
              +6
              Quote: eplewke
              well yes. the concept of rate of fire and unloading personnel is not so important for the tank - it is so, they came up with for the sake of fun ...

              The question of the need for AZ is quite complex, there are many pros and many cons. In each country, designing a tank, they approach this issue in their own way. USSR, France, South Caucasus behind AZ. Germany, UK, USA, Japan, Italy, South Africa, Israel v. You will not assert that the level of education and experience does not allow the designers of these countries to create an automatic loader for a tank gun?
              1. eplewke
                eplewke 1 October 2013 10: 42 New
                +6
                Do you doubt the Soviet school of tank building?
                1. Nayhas
                  Nayhas 1 October 2013 11: 18 New
                  -2
                  Quote: eplewke
                  Do you doubt the Soviet school of tank building?

                  Is this your answer? Quite expected. I do not consider the Russian school of tank building exceptional, there were both errors and the right decisions, among which the AZ solution is quite controversial.
                  I answered your question, now I'm still waiting for an answer to my own: Do you think that the developers of tanks in Germany, Israel, the USA, Great Britain, South Africa, Italy are not able to create an automatic loader for a tank gun?
                  1. eplewke
                    eplewke 1 October 2013 11: 48 New
                    +2
                    My opinion of AZ with its "cons" outweighs in favor of the loader! The rate of fire in a tank battle can sometimes help the entire crew out of trouble ... Sometimes the question is who is the first and how many times ... To answer why they can't, so let them do it then. Why argue? Looking at your comments, I see a zealous follower of pro-American "democracy". You don't like everything in Russia. Can you also change the flag to a mattress one?
                    1. Nayhas
                      Nayhas 1 October 2013 11: 55 New
                      +1
                      Quote: eplewke
                      All that you do not like in Russia. Maybe then the flag will also change to a mattress?

                      I don’t need your insinuations regarding me personally, I don’t need your opinion about AZ, this is understandable, I asked a simple question from which you frankly evade turning to individuals. I’ll ask him again, do you think that the developers of tanks in Germany, Israel, the USA, Great Britain, South Africa, Italy are not able to create an automatic loader for a tank gun?
                      1. eplewke
                        eplewke 1 October 2013 13: 34 New
                        +1
                        So let them do it then! Maybe they can, I do not deny the fact, let them prove it. The question is whether it is advisable to kill an extra tanker on the battlefield, when it can be replaced by AZ? and the rate of fire of the tank is higher.
                      2. Nayhas
                        Nayhas 1 October 2013 13: 39 New
                        +1
                        Quote: eplewke
                        So let them do it then! Maybe they can, I do not deny the fact, let them prove it. The question is whether it is advisable to kill an extra tanker on the battlefield, when it can be replaced by AZ? and the rate of fire of the tank is higher.

                        Eugene, well, they don’t consider it necessary to change the fourth crew member to automation.
                        PS: at the expense of rate of fire, this is true as long as there are shells in the AZ, and only half of them are there.
                      3. eplewke
                        eplewke 1 October 2013 16: 45 New
                        -2
                        Yes, they don’t know how to simply! Half of the BK in the machine is enough to deal with your own carrots. Of course, if the tank is on fire, let the fourth die for the campaign ...
                    2. Pimply
                      Pimply 1 October 2013 15: 47 New
                      -1
                      Don't you understand why a fourth crew member is needed? And what are its advantages over AZ?
                    3. eplewke
                      eplewke 1 October 2013 16: 47 New
                      -3
                      So that for the company with others in the tank burned when you can do 3 people. with AZ. !!! plus rate of fire! Plus extra armor and space !!!
                    4. Pimply
                      Pimply 1 October 2013 19: 00 New
                      0
                      Quote: eplewke
                      So that for the company with others in the tank burned when you can do 3 people. with AZ. !!! plus rate of fire! Plus extra armor and space !!!

                      M-yes, my friend, yes you are illiterate and loud. What kind of rate of fire? Until the 22nd shell, after which the drum must be scored on a new one? Or maybe 6-8 shells per minute versus 10-12 from the loader? Or, apparently, he is superfluous in servicing, performing military operations, daily operations, reconnaissance operations, tracking, security ...

                      You saw one thing - a charging machine. And you don’t know what it is, what are the negatives, why the loaders do not refuse the loader in most tanks. Bravo.

                      A charging machine has a number of advantages, but if you think that it has some radical advantages over a charging one ... Rather, it has more disadvantages
                    5. atalef
                      atalef 1 October 2013 21: 19 New
                      0
                      Quote: Pimply
                      M-yes, my friend, yes you are illiterate and loud. What kind of rate of fire? Until the 22nd shell, after which the drum must be scored on a new one?

                      I have a somewhat moronic question. And when in the AZ (after the 22nd shot) the shells end (and they are not yet in the AZ - 24) who at all during the battle loads them into the gun?
                    6. Aleks tv
                      Aleks tv 1 October 2013 21: 39 New
                      +8
                      Quote: atalef
                      And when in the AZ (after the 22 th) shots the shells end (and they are not yet in the AZ - 24) who at all during the battle loads them into the gun?

                      Alexander, let's answer in a simple, no pereparlyka, which, as usual, arranged. Good?

                      During the "work" we carried the w / c ONLY in AZ. It (for our tasks) was quite enough.

                      There were cases when they worked at ... a certain distance.
                      Then loaded "in full".
                      If necessary, replenish the AZ:
                      The commander puts his remote control in "hand" (this is not according to the instructions) and loads ONE. The gunner only transfers to him "his" components of the shot from the fasteners (also not according to the instructions).
                      They didn't even get out of the armor (the "crazy" ones flew in).

                      In the case of kipish, it is possible to replenish the AZ quickly enough in the presence of b / c.

                      There were cases of manual loading (a shell and a charge were placed in an already raised cartridge, it’s faster), hands were always shot down in blood, and the gunner and commander. But they shot.

                      Something like this. I can’t explain about MH.
                    7. Aleks tv
                      Aleks tv 1 October 2013 22: 07 New
                      +3
                      Quote: Aleks tv
                      There were cases of manual loading (a shell and a charge were placed in an already raised cartridge, it’s faster), hands were always shot down in blood, and the gunner and commander. But they shot.

                      This is an example when we had very large ahem ... problems, almost all AZ components failed ... but the rammer worked.

                      About those who talk about AZ "breakdown":
                      AZ is a series of MECHANISMS united in a single whole. But this is NOT ONE MECHANISM. All together will fail only in case of loss of electricity (there are secrets how to work with AZR AZ).
                      But, in practice, one thing breaks down: the ejection frame of the pallet (the ejection mechanism itself), the conveyor (conveyor) drive mechanism, the cartridge lifting mechanism, the rammer ...
                      It cannot all fail at the same time. A competent crew, with any problem, will produce a shot in semi-manual-semi-automatic mode with almost no change in rate of fire.
                      Well-tuned AZ rarely fails.

                      And the rate of fire (Evgeny Pupyrchaty accurately noticed) depends on the gunner and his work to a greater extent than the process of loading a tank gun.
                    8. Pimply
                      Pimply 1 October 2013 22: 42 New
                      -3
                      Quote: Aleks tv
                      It cannot all fail at the same time. A competent crew, with any problem, will fire a shot in semi-manual-semi-automatic mode with almost no change in rate of fire.

                      Undoubtedly. And here the question of loader is raised again.
                    9. Aleks tv
                      Aleks tv 1 October 2013 22: 58 New
                      +3
                      Quote: Pimply
                      And here the question of loader re-arises.

                      No. The cases I have described are exceptions. On which he simply showed what a "breakdown" of AZ is - it is not "everything is lost".
                      AZ on the T-72 has proven its effectiveness (with proper tactical use and sane service).
                      What and how on Merkava - I do not know.
                      I’ll be sure to answer specific questions on AZ (I’ll probably not be with the computer for a long time, we have 1 one in the morning, which I won’t have time for, then I’ll be sure tomorrow).
                      In a skirmish - no.
                    10. Pimply
                      Pimply 2 October 2013 01: 06 New
                      -2
                      Quote: Aleks tv
                      AZ on the T-72 has proven its effectiveness (with proper tactical use and sane service).

                      I do not argue. I will repeat it again - both of these have their advantages and disadvantages. In my opinion, the topic with loader is imperfect, although it is preferable to AZ.
          2. eplewke
            eplewke 2 October 2013 09: 33 New
            0
            Blame yourself and your Jewish patrons for illiteracy. From the ceiling took 6-8 shells per minute? AZ 10-12 shells, even on the T-72B. I'm not talking about the T-90S. I know the cons well. There are only more pluses.
  • Setrac
    Setrac 1 October 2013 13: 02 New
    +8
    Quote: eplewke
    My opinion of AZ with its "cons" outweighs in favor of the loader!

    You are wrong, the loader needs MUCH space, and this is an additional reserve amount, this is a huge minus.
    1. eplewke
      eplewke 1 October 2013 13: 31 New
      +2
      Here it is just about the advantages of AZ. More attentively please. AZ outweighs! The style of speech is this. wink
    2. Pimply
      Pimply 1 October 2013 15: 48 New
      -6
      What exactly outweighs?
  • Nayhas
    Nayhas 1 October 2013 13: 35 New
    +3
    Quote: Setrac
    You are wrong, the loader needs MUCH space, and this is an additional reserve amount, this is a huge minus.

    Undoubtedly, this is one of the advantages of AZ. But you need to understand that the AZ needs no more than the pre-charging volume, of course not the same as the loader, but still ... and the mass of the AZ is more than the mass of the hypothetical loader.
    In AZ, only half of the BC is located, after the use of which the rate of fire decreases. AZ has, like any mechanism, it can break, while the charging can be replaced. In the field, the four of them are much easier to service the tank than the three of them. A tank requires care. Reloading weapons, cleaning weapons, refueling a tank is not much that needs to be done after a battle or a march ... In general, the Germans, Jews and Americans made their choice in favor of a loader, and this seemed to suit them.
    PS: but eplewke, by the way, is the opposite for AZ, it’s just that I didn’t express my thought.
  • Cat
    Cat 1 October 2013 14: 01 New
    +8
    Quote: Nayhas
    Undoubtedly, this is one of the advantages of AZ. But you need to understand that the AZ needs no more than the pre-charging volume, of course not the same as the loader, but still ... and the mass of the AZ is more than the mass of the hypothetical loader.

    the mass of AZ there is not at all in business - it is more than compensated by the mass of armor, saved by reducing the reserved volume.
    Quote: Nayhas
    In AZ, only half of the BC is located, after the use of which the rate of fire decreases. AZ has, like any mechanism, it can break, while the charging can be replaced.

    In Soviet tanks and Leclerc’s, it’s really so - but who prevents to create your own version of the AZ? Moreover, the layout of Merkava is already fundamentally different from all other tanks.
    In addition, for tanks without AZ, part of the ammunition load is also located outside the main ammunition rack, in different niches there, etc. And it is not at all a fact that the loader will be able to extract them faster than the Russians or the French throw "spare" shots into the AZ.
    Quote: Nayhas
    In the field, the four of them are much easier to service the tank than the three of them. A tank requires care. Reloading weapons, cleaning weapons, refueling a tank, is not much that needs to be done after a battle or march ...

    The Germans and Americans (I don’t know about Jews) have a terribly developed MTO service, which actually deals with servicing equipment outside the battlefield. It was only in the SA that the tanker was obliged, in which case, with the help of a sledgehammer and such and such a mother, to disassemble his tank for spare parts and then put it back =) The bourgeois did not accept this, there is specially trained technical personnel for maintenance.
    Quote: Nayhas
    In general, the Germans, Jews and Americans made their choice in favor of the loader, and this, as it were, suits them.

    Maybe they do not like nifiga ... but they cannot create a sane AZ, despite the full development of their technology. And who thinks that this is not so - let him remember how the amers sculpted the APU for Abrams, and how all their advanced technologies helped them in this =)))
  • IRBIS
    IRBIS 1 October 2013 15: 34 New
    +8
    Quote: Cat
    but they cannot create a sane AZ, despite the full development of their technology.

    You are right, the mustachioed fellow of the cat family is absolutely right! For all their technical achievements, there are things that they cannot comprehend and repeat. And AZ in the tank is far from an isolated case. The presence of a loader in a modern tank is not from competent calculations, but from their imperfection.
    Yes, there someone said that the loader in which case can be replaced. Sorry, who to replace? Commander or gunner?
  • Pimply
    Pimply 1 October 2013 19: 12 New
    -5
    Reserve fighter, dear. Or a gunner - his functions in Merkava, if necessary, can be performed by a commander. But the wedge of the charging machine requires the evacuation of the tank.
  • Aleks tv
    Aleks tv 1 October 2013 19: 31 New
    +4
    Quote: Pimply
    But the wedge of the charging machine requires the evacuation of the tank.

    Somehow I didn’t notice your amateurism in reasoning ...
    For anyone, but not for you, Eugene.
    Maybe we won’t say that? Believe me, not worth it.
  • Pimply
    Pimply 1 October 2013 19: 44 New
    -2
    Quote: Aleks tv
    Somehow I didn’t notice your amateurism in reasoning ...
    For anyone, but not for you.
    Maybe we won’t say that? Believe me, not worth it.


    Wrong formulated. Breakage A wedge is something completely different.
  • Aleks tv
    Aleks tv 1 October 2013 21: 00 New
    +6
    Quote: Pimply
    Wrong formulated. Breakage A wedge is something completely different.

    Also incorrectly formulated ...

    Evgeny, you didn't "work" on the T-72, did you?
    Why then blame AZ?
    He did not fail me. It just needs to be serviced ...
    Just like AK, like PC. Just like other weapons.
    Otherwise, it's easier to switch to silicon "trunks" (it seems your phrase).

    Closure is his enemy. Fighting him is possible. there are options.
    I won’t talk about Merkava, since I don’t know her.
    That's what I meant.
    Something like this.
  • Setrac
    Setrac 1 October 2013 19: 32 New
    +2
    Quote: Pimply
    But the wedge of the charging machine requires the evacuation of the tank.

    Heh, and how often does it happen? Which tanks?
  • Pimply
    Pimply 1 October 2013 19: 45 New
    -1
    I already answered above.
  • Dezzed
    Dezzed 1 October 2013 20: 21 New
    -2
    dear IRBIS

    you are right, where do the stupid Jews AZ do.
    ate we ate satellites, we launch Intel processors, we sell drones in Russia. It's a shame, everything is small.

    even the drawings of AZ from Moscow could not steal.

    By the way, the Soviet army spent the last tank battles in 1945. Israel in 1982. There will be fresh experience.

    By the way, again the rate of fire is lower than that of the loader. there was an article on the topic of AZ, I already wrote out there.

    "Yes, someone there said that the loader could be replaced in case of anything. Excuse me, who should replace it? Commander or gunner?"

    Yes! just one of them !!! but what during the battle to replace the flying AZ? I ask you sir?
  • Setrac
    Setrac 1 October 2013 21: 34 New
    +3
    Quote: DezzeD
    By the way, again the rate of fire is lower than that of the loader. there was an article on the topic of AZ, I already wrote out there.

    Well, how much can you say about this, in polygon conditions the AZ loses by a small amount, but if you have to shoot in motion, but over rough terrain?
  • Dezzed
    Dezzed 1 October 2013 22: 08 New
    0
    shooting in motion is increasingly visible in the commercials of tanks, in nature shooting of this kind is not very effective,
    especially at considerable distances, say 3000 meters.
    it is from this distance that Israeli tankers are accustomed to starting a battle. (since 1967)
    there is no big difficulty leading the target automatically, it will stop for 3-4 seconds, the shot and again the movement. tactics was tested in real conditions, it’s better not yet found.
  • Dezzed
    Dezzed 1 October 2013 22: 10 New
    -2
    shooting in motion is increasingly visible in the commercials of tanks, in nature shooting of this kind is not very effective,
    especially at considerable distances, say 3000 meters. namely, from this distance the Israeli tankers are accustomed to start a battle. (since 1967)
    there is no big difficulty leading the target automatically, it will stop for 3-4 seconds, the shot and again the movement. tactics was tested in real conditions, it’s better not yet found.
  • Pimply
    Pimply 1 October 2013 15: 49 New
    +1
    Quote: Cat
    The Germans and Americans (I don’t know about Jews) have a terribly developed MTO service, which actually deals with servicing equipment outside the battlefield.

    There is daily maintenance of the tank in the field, to which the MTO service has nothing to do.
  • Cat
    Cat 1 October 2013 20: 44 New
    +2
    Quote: Pimply
    There is daily maintenance of the tank in the field, to which the MTO service has nothing to do.

    it doesn’t have with us (or maybe with you). And they have a very. Civilization-s.
  • eplewke
    eplewke 1 October 2013 16: 52 New
    +1
    Really adequate opinion! I fully share your views! Thank you cat!
  • Pimply
    Pimply 1 October 2013 15: 48 New
    -3
    That's right, AZ space is not enough. And there is such a thing as tank work, duty, and so on. - the load on the crew, clearly with a decrease in the number of crew members, is simply eliminated at times.
  • duke
    duke 2 October 2013 08: 19 New
    +2
    also an important point is the repair of the caterpillar, if all of a sudden, four of them drag it easier than the three of them, as well as loading ammunition. The Israelis during the fighting often slept and slept in their Merkava, when one was on duty, three could rest, so really the load on each crew member was reduced.
  • Rumata
    Rumata 2 October 2013 19: 38 New
    0
    Quote: duke
    Merkavah, when one was on duty, three could rest, so really the load on each crew member was reduced.

    Not a specialist in tanks, but during the Arab-Israeli wars, there was a constant "turnover" of crews. Survivors of the wounded, replaced the wounded in tanks that are in service, the same happened during WWII, for example. The broken AZ needs to be repaired, the dead loader can be replaced. We're not talking about 1 versus 1 battles, when there are hundreds of tanks on the battlefield, I think there will be someone to replace. Although I may not be right, the advantages of AZ, described by the specialists here, are also quite impressive.
  • Doctorleg
    Doctorleg 1 October 2013 14: 33 New
    +1
    And what does democracy and the flag have to do with it? Talk about tanks? Departure from the topic -
  • Pimply
    Pimply 1 October 2013 15: 38 New
    +1
    Quote: eplewke
    My opinion of AZ with its "cons" outweighs in favor of the loader! The rate of fire in a tank battle can sometimes save the entire crew from trouble ...

    Do you know that according to measurements, the rate of fire of the loader at the initial stage of the battle is higher than that of the machine? But this is not important, because the gunner needs time to visit. And then guidance systems begin to steer. So do not flog the nonsense.
    1. eplewke
      eplewke 1 October 2013 16: 57 New
      -1
      No need to smack you nonsense! Comrade Profitrol! In a dense urban area, a continuous attack on enemy positions will give you such a head start and a chance to survive that they won’t be able to raise their heads! A lot of aiming to get into the house or exemplary positions with a high-explosive shell is not necessary! Your knowledge at the level of a schoolboy with a firecracker!
    2. Kars
      Kars 1 October 2013 19: 05 New
      +6
      Quote: eplewke
      approximate positions with a high-explosive shell is not necessary!

      A tank gun is not a howitzer --- millimeters play a role.
    3. Pimply
      Pimply 1 October 2013 19: 13 New
      -1
      Quote: eplewke
      No need to smack you nonsense! Comrade Profitrol! In a dense urban area, a continuous attack on enemy positions will give you such a head start and a chance to survive that they won’t be able to raise their heads! A lot of aiming to get into the house or exemplary positions with a high-explosive shell is not necessary! Your knowledge at the level of a schoolboy with a firecracker!

      Did you fight in city building? I - yes, and I'm sorry, most of what you said is nonsense of a patriot who is not familiar with reality for a penny.
    4. eplewke
      eplewke 2 October 2013 09: 39 New
      0
      Something I strongly doubt where you fought there. Call of Duty must have fought ... in a dense urban area.
    5. Rumata
      Rumata 2 October 2013 19: 41 New
      -1
      Quote: eplewke
      Something I strongly doubt where you fought there. Call of Duty must have fought ... in a dense urban area.

      Pimpy, just served in a very tense place, in a completely uneasy time, so he had to fight. Or do you think that the IDF did not have to fight in cities?
  • Cat
    Cat 1 October 2013 20: 54 New
    +3
    Quote: Pimply
    Do you know that according to measurements, the rate of fire of the loader at the initial stage of the battle is higher than that of the machine? But this is not important, because the gunner needs time to visit. And then guidance systems begin to steer. So do not flog the nonsense.

    Measurements, as always, were carried out by means of a fresh loader, only from the barracks - who finished his morning cigarette, drank coffee, and then jumped into the tank and started throwing shots into the breech "for a record." And it is quite possible that it is precisely in such a way that someone somewhere is fighting. But if you enter a battle on the move, after a mile-long march across rough terrain, how will your loader feel, and what speed will he show? So from there.

    Personally, I think that if AZ appeared in the Israeli tanks, the tankers would hardly have staged protest rallies and massively sent reports "for demobilization." Most likely the opposite is true =)))
  • Turtles
    Turtles 1 October 2013 19: 37 New
    +1
    They did not create it!
  • Setrac
    Setrac 1 October 2013 12: 59 New
    +3
    Quote: Nayhas
    Germany, Great Britain, USA, Japan, Italy, South Africa, Israel v.

    Remove Germany from this list.
    Quote: Nayhas
    But you will not argue that the designers of these countries do not have the level of education and experience to create an automatic machine for loading a tank gun?

    That experience in tank building does not allow.
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 1 October 2013 15: 51 New
      0
      Quote: Setrac
      Remove Germany from this list.

      AZ appeared on Leo?
  • Silkway0026
    Silkway0026 1 October 2013 10: 49 New
    +4
    ahh, is it that conceived? Well, it’s hard for us to understand the subtleties of the twists on the promised land
  • Setrac
    Setrac 1 October 2013 12: 56 New
    +5
    Quote: Professor
    In your opinion there is no AZ at Merkava due to the technological lag of Israeli industry?

    The point here is not the technological lag of Israeli industry, but the imperfect layout of the Merkava tank (all models). To put the AZ it is necessary to redo everything, it will be a completely different tank.
    1. Professor
      1 October 2013 13: 49 New
      -2
      Quote: Setrac
      it will be a completely different tank.

      That's for sure. It will turn out a tank which, when the armor is broken through, detonates the ammunition and the tower flies away.
      1. Setrac
        Setrac 1 October 2013 14: 11 New
        +3
        Quote: Professor
        That's for sure. It will turn out a tank which, when the armor is broken through, detonates the ammunition and the tower flies away.

        In the photo over and near the Merkava, the tower is lying nearby.
        1. Professor
          1 October 2013 14: 17 New
          0
          Quote: Setrac
          In the photo over and near the Merkava, the tower is lying nearby.

          Is that the one with a landmine?
      2. Cat
        Cat 1 October 2013 21: 00 New
        +4
        Quote: Professor
        That's for sure. It will turn out a tank which, when the armor is broken through, detonates the ammunition and the tower flies away.

        Prof, you obviously decided to go down to the level of those who consider the Merkava stupid scrap metal just because they are Israeli? Or have you been at that level for a long time?
        This is to say that the BC detonates and the tower flies not from the tank that has the AZ - but from the one where the main BC is located directly in the fighting compartment, and even without any protection (such as hydro-stacking, etc.). The difference between these two tanks - see?
  • Pimply
    Pimply 1 October 2013 15: 27 New
    -1
    The merkava charging machine was abandoned for several reasonable reasons.

    Firstly, for a number of points they did not want to reduce the crew - this complicates the maintenance of the tank and increases the fatigue of the crew. In addition, crew members enter into various watch-keeping duties - with three crew members their effectiveness would decrease.

    The machine eats up space.

    The machine gun (in the Russian version) has a tab in the 22 shell, then it needs to be recharged again.

    The loading speed of projectile shells is often higher than automatic.

    All this is chewed more than once or twice. The machine is not a mandatory advantage, and has a number of serious drawbacks.
    1. Setrac
      Setrac 1 October 2013 15: 42 New
      +7
      Quote: Pimply
      Firstly, for a number of points they did not want to reduce the crew - this complicates the maintenance of the tank and increases the fatigue of the crew. In addition, crew members enter into various watch-keeping duties - with three crew members their effectiveness would decrease.

      You already answered this stupidity earlier.
      Quote: Pimply
      The machine eats up space.

      The extra crew member - loader - eats up space many times more.
      Quote: Pimply
      The machine gun (in the Russian version) has a tab in the 22 shell, then it needs to be recharged again.

      There are three objections at once.
      1. In a serious conflict, the tank simply does not have time to shoot the entire combat unit.
      2. In a conflict of low intensity against a weak enemy (as in Palestine) there is always the opportunity to move away and load the ammunition from the transport directly into the ammunition depot.
      3. In Western tanks, not all ammunition in the ammunition depot, part is distributed over various niches, from where it is necessary to extract and place it in the ammunition depot, regardless of whether there is an AZ, MZ or not.
      Quote: Pimply
      The loading speed of projectile shells is often higher than automatic.

      Strongly said, often higher, and often lower? After prolonged battles, lengthy marches, lack of sleep and malnutrition, your loader will be several times slower than the automatic loader. Faster loading only in ideal conditions of the landfill.
      Quote: Pimply
      The machine is not a mandatory advantage, and has a number of serious drawbacks.

      Automatic loader - this is an advantage that at times overrides its shortcomings.
      1. eplewke
        eplewke 1 October 2013 17: 00 New
        +1
        To the point of Seryoga! I agree!
      2. Pimply
        Pimply 1 October 2013 19: 22 New
        0
        Quote: Setrac
        There are three objections at once.
        1. In a serious conflict, the tank simply does not have time to shoot the entire combat unit.

        Are you sure? I know of several conflicts where the tanks completely shot the ammunition. For example, in 1973 in the Golan. Is the largest tank battle strong enough for you since World War II?

        Quote: Setrac
        2. In a conflict of low intensity against a weak enemy (as in Palestine) there is always the opportunity to move away and load the ammunition from the transport directly into the ammunition depot.


        Not always. Have you had to deal with the supply of ammunition and other things? Me, among other things, yes. Logistics is not a simple thing, and the unit must always proceed from the fact that it may be in a blockade.

        As an example, I remind you of the operation in Somalia.

        Quote: Setrac
        3. In Western tanks, not all ammunition in the ammunition depot, part is distributed over various niches, from where it is necessary to extract and place it in the ammunition depot, regardless of whether there is an AZ, MZ or not.


        Absolutely.

        Quote: Setrac
        Strongly said, often higher, and often lower? After prolonged battles, lengthy marches, lack of sleep and malnutrition, your loader will be several times slower than the automatic loader. Faster loading only in ideal conditions of the landfill.

        The same thing can be said about the automatic charging - long transitions, poor service, etc. in combat conditions leads to wedges, distortions, problems.
        Practice shows. At the beginning of the battle, the loader is usually higher in one and a half to two times than the machine.

        In fact, the real rate of fire depends on the gunner. And there, who charges is no longer important - the pace will be approximately equal.


        Quote: Setrac
        You already answered this stupidity earlier.


        Something did not see anything adequate.
        1. Setrac
          Setrac 1 October 2013 20: 20 New
          +3
          Quote: Pimply
          The same thing can be said about the automatic charging - long transitions, poor service, etc. in combat conditions leads to wedges, distortions, problems.

          "Tired" automatic loader? Anneal further.
          1. Aaron Zawi
            Aaron Zawi 1 October 2013 20: 59 New
            -1
            Quote: Setrac

            "Tired" automatic loader? Anneal further.

            Don't be foolish. Overwhelmed, not "tired".
          2. Pimply
            Pimply 1 October 2013 21: 41 New
            -2
            Quote: Setrac
            "Tired" automatic loader? Anneal further.

            No, it’s just broken - or you want to say that the lack of maintenance, lengthy transitions and everything else improves the quality of the equipment. Bravo.
            1. Setrac
              Setrac 1 October 2013 21: 57 New
              +1
              Quote: Pimply
              No, it’s just broken - or you want to say that the lack of maintenance, lengthy transitions and everything else improves the quality of the equipment. Bravo.

              The same can be said about the loader, hungry, tired, wounded, killed. Moreover, the loader is more vulnerable than AZ.
              1. Pimply
                Pimply 1 October 2013 22: 18 New
                0
                Than? The fact that he can be replaced by a gunner or a replaceable tankman without evacuating the tank, and a loader can pull a track?
      3. atalef
        atalef 1 October 2013 21: 29 New
        -2
        Quote: Setrac
        There are three objections at once.
        1. In a serious conflict, the tank simply does not have time to shoot the entire combat unit.

        So why the heck to drag another 24 shells (22 would have been enough in AZ)?

        Quote: Setrac
        2. In a conflict of low intensity against a weak enemy (as in Palestine) there is always the opportunity to move away and load the ammunition from the transport directly into the ammunition depot.

        Then why drag another 24?

        Quote: Setrac
        3. In Western tanks, not all ammunition in the ammunition depot, part is distributed over various niches, from where it is necessary to extract and place it in the ammunition depot, regardless of whether there is an AZ, MZ or not.

        Like those 24 (in T) which are not in AZ. Again the question, why the heck to drag them? If in a conflict of low intensity they can be replenished without problems directly in the AZ (your words), but in a large one they simply won’t reach belay
        Well, now taking into account the fact that on the first 20 shells the loader has more speed than the AZ - the question is, again the same
        What is the advantage in AZ?
        1. Setrac
          Setrac 1 October 2013 22: 03 New
          +3
          Quote: atalef
          So why the heck to drag another 24 shells (22 would have been enough in AZ)?

          The main argument is point 3, about points 1 and 2 answered above by the user "Alex", when it was necessary to load the full ammunition, but in most cases the AZ ammunition rack was enough.
    2. IRBIS
      IRBIS 1 October 2013 16: 14 New
      +4
      Quote: Pimply
      The machine gun (in the Russian version) has a tab in the 22 shell, then it needs to be recharged again.

      If you don’t know, in a battle the AZ does not need to be "reloaded". You can load the cannon with shells directly from the stowage, which is located around the crew. Cheap and cheerful. AZ is overloaded if time is available.
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 1 October 2013 19: 23 New
        -1
        Quote: IRBIS
        If you don’t know, in a battle the AZ does not need to be "reloaded". You can load the cannon with shells directly from the stowage, which is located around the crew. Cheap and cheerful. AZ is overloaded if time is available.

        You can, in the know. We will discuss the disadvantages of this?
      2. Rumata
        Rumata 1 October 2013 20: 16 New
        -2
        Quote: IRBIS
        If you don’t know, in a battle the AZ does not need to be "reloaded". You can load the cannon with shells directly from the stowage, which is located around the crew. Cheap and cheerful. AZ is overloaded if time is available.

        Damaged AZ, who will charge? Honestly interesting =)
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 1 October 2013 20: 54 New
          +2
          Quote: Rumata
          Damaged AZ, who will charge? Honestly interesting =)

          Charger damaged, who will charge? wassat
          1. Armata
            Armata 1 October 2013 21: 01 New
            0
            Quote: Rumata
            Damaged AZ, who will charge? Honestly interesting =)

            Quote: Ingvar 72
            Charger damaged, who will charge?
            Just like on your N7 tanks, if the loading mechanism is damaged, the tank commander charges manually, so here if the loading (God forbid) is injured or killed, the tank commander takes his place.
            1. atalef
              atalef 1 October 2013 21: 37 New
              0
              Quote: Mechanic
              Just like on your N7 tanks, if the loading mechanism is damaged, the tank commander charges manually, so here if the loading (God forbid) is injured or killed, the tank commander takes his place.

              Hi Zhen, there’s a slightly different aspect. In one case, the tank becomes disabled (he himself coined the term) in the event of breaking through the armor and injuring a crew member, in the second case, simply in case of completion of the ammunition in the AZ. There is some difference. In case of battle in the same urban area. it’s a nest to shoot an 22 shell like an 2 finger on asphalt. Suddenly, the tank’s combat efficiency drops significantly, or a gunner or commander, should begin to drive around the tank. get shells out of the ammunition shell and charge.
              1. Armata
                Armata 1 October 2013 21: 49 New
                +3
                Quote: atalef
                Hi Zhen, there’s a slightly different aspect. In one case, the tank becomes disabled (he himself coined the term) in the event of breaking through the armor and injuring a crew member, in the second case, simply in case of completion of the ammunition in the AZ. There is some difference. In case of battle in the same urban area. it’s a nest to shoot an 22 shell like an 2 finger on asphalt. Suddenly, the tank’s combat efficiency drops significantly, or a gunner or commander, should begin to drive around the tank. get shells out of the ammunition shell and charge.
                Hi Sasha. But agree that in both cases this is an extreme option. So the tank can leave the shelling and just reload the ammunition depot.
              2. IRBIS
                IRBIS 2 October 2013 09: 36 New
                0
                Quote: atalef
                In case of battle in the same urban area. nest shoot xnumx shell like xnumx finger on aswalt.

                Have you tried to shoot 22 shells at a "shock" rate in the city? Where are you going to shoot something?
                Quote: atalef
                Suddenly, the tank’s combat efficiency drops significantly. or a gunner or commander, should begin to drive around the tank. get shells out of the ammunition shell and charge.

                There is no need to "drive" the tank. It is enough to stretch out your hand.
                1. Setrac
                  Setrac 2 October 2013 14: 04 New
                  0
                  Quote: IRBIS
                  There is no need to "drive" the tank. It is enough to stretch out your hand.

                  Apparently on the Merkava, the commander has to "drive around the tank" in case of death or injury of the loader.
      3. atalef
        atalef 1 October 2013 21: 32 New
        +2
        Quote: IRBIS
        If you don’t know, it is not necessary to “recharge” the AZ in battle. You can load the cannon with shells directly from the stowage, which is located around the crew

        And who is charging? commander or gunner? And who performs their functions at this time? How does this affect the rate of fire and crew fatigue?
        1. 31231
          31231 1 October 2013 23: 16 New
          +1
          And who is charging? commander or gunner? And who performs their functions at this time? How does this affect the rate of fire and crew fatigue?

          And how does it affect the speed of fire if the loader of the Carrot wounded (killed) ?!
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 2 October 2013 01: 09 New
            -1
            Quote: 31231
            And how does it affect the speed of fire if the loader of the Carrot wounded (killed) ?!

            Also. how the death of the gunner, driver or commander on the T-72 crew will affect - badly. But in the case of the death of the loader - I repeat once again - he can be replaced by a gunner, for example, since his functions were duplicated by the commander.

            I repeat once again - the circuit with AZ has its merits, but it has no less disadvantages and shortcomings, which, apparently, you simply cannot understand.

            Similarly, the drawback has a drawback. Due to a lack of understanding and experience, you also cannot understand the merits of this scheme.
  • Silkway0026
    Silkway0026 1 October 2013 10: 39 New
    +4


    watch from the 5 minute of the 50 second

    and here you can see when the tank was put into service http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D2-72

    forty years ago ... apparently you need to learn the materiel ...
  • velikoros-xnumx
    velikoros-xnumx 1 October 2013 21: 12 New
    +1
    Quote: Professor
    Tell please how it was a few decades ago.

    Yes, more than four decades ago. Father tanker served in Hungary 1968-1970. on t-54. In the second year of service, t-64s began to arrive, which were then considered almost secret. Father told me that they were forbidden to tankers to photograph them, but nevertheless he managed to make a couple of shots for the demobilization album. So something like that.
  • revnagan
    revnagan 1 October 2013 12: 02 New
    +2
    "No need for a muscular loader anymore"
    Quote: Silkway0026
    rzhunimagu !!!!! the guy charges himself, manually !!! and lie on the blue eye

    You do not understand, in the photo the cyborg charges (like Terminator) ... laughing
    1. alone
      alone 1 October 2013 22: 02 New
      +3
      The Israelis are practical people and certainly not bad weapons. They say that I’m not so rich to buy a cheap thing.

      good should be called good. bad bad. For the Israeli theater of merkava-4 a good tank. Moreover, after it was established Trophy.
  • xetai9977
    xetai9977 1 October 2013 09: 04 New
    +8
    The title "the most modern tank" is what the Americans call the Abrams, the British "Challenger", the Israelis "Merkava", the Koreans "K-2", the French "Leclerc" ....
    1. eplewke
      eplewke 1 October 2013 09: 51 New
      +1
      And in the end, the armata will make everyone ...
      1. Nayhas
        Nayhas 1 October 2013 10: 30 New
        +2
        Quote: eplewke
        And in the end, the armata will make everyone ...

        while even on paper she doesn’t do it ...
        1. eplewke
          eplewke 1 October 2013 10: 36 New
          +2
          And you are not in a hurry to "bury". If they do it, then you will find fault. And it has already been done, but it is not shown to the public. And where did you get the paper from interesting ??? What? Is there a TTX? Do you have confidential data, comrade? Or have you read Wikipedia?
          1. Nayhas
            Nayhas 1 October 2013 11: 22 New
            +3
            Quote: eplewke
            And you are not in a hurry to "bury". If they do, then you will find fault

            How can you bury or "find fault", which is not? There is a certain concept not implemented in metal that a narrow circle of people know about until it has turned into a working product, and in this case it is a tank and it cannot "do" anything.
            1. eplewke
              eplewke 1 October 2013 11: 57 New
              -2
              Nevertheless, no less in those already available facts. FCS from T-90SM "Kalina", New chassis, new 1500 - 1800 strong diesel 2A12-3, new gun 2A83, Active armor and new AZ are already rumored to make this car the best! As a patriot, unlike you, I am almost sure of this!
              1. il grand casino
                il grand casino 1 October 2013 12: 02 New
                +9
                Quote: eplewke
                Nevertheless, no less in those already available facts. FCS from T-90SM "Kalina", New chassis, new 1500 - 1800 strong diesel 2A12-3, new gun 2A83, Active armor and new AZ are already rumored to make this car the best! As a patriot, unlike you, I am almost sure of this!

                Remember that patriotism and idiocy are not the same thing. If you look at the rumors, each country (North Korea and the Republic of Congo is no exception) has the very best tanks, planes and other "death stars".
              2. Nayhas
                Nayhas 1 October 2013 13: 18 New
                +4
                Quote: eplewke
                Nevertheless, no less in those already available facts. FCS from T-90SM "Kalina", New chassis, new 1500 - 1800 strong diesel 2A12-3, new gun 2A83, Active armor and new AZ are already rumored to make this car the best!

                Eugene, I repeat again. While the tank at the test site during the GSI did not confirm its characteristics inherent in the TTZ it does not exist. Moreover, even if there are separate nodes ready for installation, until they are assembled together and do not work as they should, it still does not change anything.
                A person may claim that he jumps higher than Sergey Bubka and runs faster than Usain Bolt, but until he confirms his words he is nobody.
              3. Doctorleg
                Doctorleg 1 October 2013 15: 10 New
                +5
                Quote: eplewke
                Nevertheless, no less in those already available facts. FCS from T-90SM "Kalina", New chassis, new 1500 - 1800 strong diesel 2A12-3, new gun 2A83, Active armor and new AZ are already rumored to make this car the best! As a patriot, unlike you, I am almost sure of this!

                You somehow confuse the meaning of the word patriot
                1. eplewke
                  eplewke 1 October 2013 17: 06 New
                  +1
                  Apparently I can’t reach your knowledge of patriotism ... You can interfere with your country with shit - call it backward and incompetent, make corruption horror out of it, but I live here !!! This is my country! This is my Russia! And not for you to judge how and at what level I love my country. And I do not want to notice all those minuses, because there are so few pluses! But they are! And Armata is one of such advantages! And constantly whining about the horrors in the country and supposedly cheers-patriotism is not masculine, it is not Russian! And they did not live in such conditions and loved their homeland! And I wish you whiners good luck in a foreign land!
                  1. atalef
                    atalef 1 October 2013 21: 42 New
                    +3
                    Quote: eplewke
                    And I do not want to notice all those minuses, because there are so few pluses

                    Apply the laws of mathematics. start multiplying cons - this will give you a solid plus.

                    Quote: eplewke
                    And constantly whining about the horrors in the country and supposedly cheers-patriotism is not masculine, it is not Russian

                    And how are men in Russian? Not to notice - how are you or trying to fix it?

                    Quote: eplewke
                    ! And they didn’t live in such conditions and loved their homeland

                    Loving and not noticing flaws (trying to fix them) are completely different things.
                    You somehow confuse the love of the motherland with the love of the government - with all its minuses and small pluses (again, your words)
                    1. eplewke
                      eplewke 2 October 2013 09: 46 New
                      0
                      A Jew will teach me to love Russia ... He laughed ...
              4. Rumata
                Rumata 1 October 2013 20: 17 New
                +1
                Quote: eplewke
                Active armor and a new AZ are already rumored to make this car the best! I, as a patriot, unlike you, are almost sure of this!

                The unfinished tank, which really is not known about anything, is already 30 years ahead of all world analogues !!!
              5. ruslan207
                ruslan207 1 October 2013 20: 20 New
                0
                eplewke-t-95 there were already prototypes and the test passed, but did not go into the series
        2. sakmagon
          sakmagon 1 October 2013 12: 43 New
          +4
          I don’t need your insinuations regarding me personally, I don’t need your opinion about AZ, this is understandable, I asked a simple question from which you frankly evade turning to individuals. I’ll ask him again, do you think that the developers of tanks in Germany, Israel, the USA, Great Britain, South Africa, Italy are not able to create an automatic loader for a tank gun?



          I answer your previous question, yes, they can’t do it, they performed R&D, it didn’t work out at the proper level for the army to accept, but you, in turn, have evidence that you can, or you come from their general technological level, I’m in a hurry to unravel they are all, but no one can all, but on this device we can
    2. yanus
      yanus 1 October 2013 10: 03 New
      10
      Quote: xetai9977
      The title "the most modern tank" is what the Americans call the Abrams, the British "Challenger", the Israelis "Merkava", the Koreans "K-2", the French "Leclerc" ....

      In the meantime, the T72 has been fighting for decades without too much writing.
      1. Doctorleg
        Doctorleg 1 October 2013 10: 26 New
        +3
        There are also enough scribbles on T72. Including on our forum
    3. OffenroR
      OffenroR 1 October 2013 18: 40 New
      0
      Quote: xetai9977
      The title "the most modern tank" is what the Americans call the Abrams, the British "Challenger", the Israelis "Merkava", the Koreans "K-2", the French "Leclerc" ....


      And only the Germans are silent ... just like in the 30s .... Hmmmm ... vague doubts torment me belay
  • 31231
    31231 1 October 2013 09: 06 New
    +4
    Thanks professor for the material. But as above, Silkyway laughed about "the most modern tank". Then Armata is the tank of the future ?!
    1. Doctorleg
      Doctorleg 1 October 2013 10: 22 New
      +4
      Of course, the future. Not real. He is not here now. But what is it, the future, it is still necessary to see
    2. Tourist Breakfast
      Tourist Breakfast 1 October 2013 10: 55 New
      +5
      Thanks professor for the material. But as above, Silkyway laughed about "the most modern tank". Then Armata is the tank of the future ?!


      I don’t understand why you all got mad. The article does not say that the "Merkava-4" is the most modern tank in the world. In my opinion, it is clear from the article that the author meant just the most modern tank in service with the IDF, in the sense that it went through all the modifications (installation of KAZ, etc.).
      1. 31231
        31231 1 October 2013 11: 22 New
        11
        Our write - has no analogues. Jews write - the most modern. The former are considered as Uriapatriots, the latter are still just Jews.
        1. Tourist Breakfast
          Tourist Breakfast 1 October 2013 11: 41 New
          +2
          Our write - has no analogues. Jews write - the most modern. The former are considered as Uriapatriots, the latter are still just Jews.


          Once again, he is the "most modern" in the IDF. What's wrong? Again statements in the style of "and Baba Yaga is against"!
          1. Setrac
            Setrac 1 October 2013 13: 20 New
            +2
            Quote: Tourist's Breakfast
            Once again, he is the "most modern" in the IDF.

            From the name of this is not visible, you just condone the author.
            1. Tourist Breakfast
              Tourist Breakfast 1 October 2013 13: 40 New
              +3
              From the name of this is not visible, you just condone the author.


              Once again we read the title: "The most modern tank on the most dangerous border: a report from the border with the Gaza Strip." Now you will also say that the author claims that the border with the Gaza Strip is the most dangerous in the world. In my opinion, you have to be completely devoid of logic, so as not to get the idea that the epithet "the most" here refers exclusively to local realities.
              1. Setrac
                Setrac 1 October 2013 14: 14 New
                +6
                Quote: Tourist's Breakfast
                In my opinion, you have to be completely devoid of logic, so as not to get the idea that the epithet "the most" here refers exclusively to local realities.

                So let it be written, the best JEWISH tank on the most dangerous JEWISH border. And as I wrote, there are better tanks, and the borders are more dangerous.
                1. Tourist Breakfast
                  Tourist Breakfast 1 October 2013 15: 31 New
                  +3
                  So let it be written, the best JEWISH tank on the most dangerous JEWISH border. And as I wrote, there are better tanks, and the borders are more dangerous.

                  But he writes in the JEWISH MEDIA in the JEWISH language. The author did not expect to be read in a distant northern country.
                  1. eplewke
                    eplewke 1 October 2013 17: 09 New
                    -1
                    So the professor decided to sing the jewish wunderwaffle valgal! Who pulled his hand?
                    1. Pimply
                      Pimply 1 October 2013 19: 24 New
                      +1
                      No, the professor simply translated the article for the Voennoye Obozreniye website (mind you, not the "weapon of Russia"), for the Army of the World section. Have you noticed this?
                2. Pimply
                  Pimply 1 October 2013 15: 59 New
                  +5
                  You decided to tell the ISRAELI author who wrote for the ISRAELI site what postscript he should do for pompous boobs from the Topwar site, despite the fact that the author is not aware of the fact that the translation of his article is posted here?
                3. eplewke
                  eplewke 1 October 2013 17: 08 New
                  0
                  Aha ha !!! laughing Great noticed!
          2. 31231
            31231 1 October 2013 22: 08 New
            +1
            Well ours then too. Unparalleled in the RF Armed Forces wink
        2. Pimply
          Pimply 1 October 2013 15: 57 New
          +3
          Israeli article made for an Israeli site. The article is about the most modern tank in the arsenal of Israel. Is there a comparison with tanks from other countries? You do not see the difference between bragging and stating a fact? If they talked about the T-90 - the most modern tank in the context of the Russian army, then no one would have any complaints.
          1. Setrac
            Setrac 1 October 2013 16: 38 New
            0
            Quote: Pimply
            You decided to tell the ISRAELI author who wrote for the ISRAELI site what postscript he should do for pompous boobs from the Topwar site, despite the fact that the author is not aware of the fact that the translation of his article is posted here?

            So it was not necessary to spread this get on topvar, if it is for internal use.
            Quote: Pimply
            You do not see the difference between bragging and stating a fact?

            Exactly, I see the pompous bragging of boobies under the Israeli flag.
            1. Pimply
              Pimply 1 October 2013 19: 26 New
              -2
              Quote: Setrac
              So it was not necessary to spread this get on topvar, if it is for internal use.

              Sorry, dear, this is somehow decided by the site editors. Have you read the rules, section names, the title itself? Or "broke"?
              Sorry, but pompous bragging is about most of the comments here, including yours.
              Go Russia! Caps in the air. It has no analogues. In good Bravo.
              1. velikoros-xnumx
                velikoros-xnumx 2 October 2013 09: 24 New
                +1
                Quote: Pimply
                Sorry, but pompous bragging is about most of the comments here.

                Well, let's say not about the majority, but only about a minor part. Somehow, I did not notice the critical articles and comments of Jews regarding everything that concerns Israel, its army and equipment. In general, this is normal, albeit subjective. As for the domestic defense industry, now and in the past, I think no one sane will argue that we knew how and are able to make good weapons. Of course, there are certain problems, but how can we do without them, given that the country has been devoted to plunder, oblivion and degradation for almost 20 years. However, the process has not been finally stopped, but positive trends are evident. Unlike the Internal Affairs Directorate, NATO was indeed a bloc (and is), and the Internal Affairs Directorate is a bloc that actually consisted in the military sense of one state. And nevertheless, this state, in fact, alone rather successfully opposed the entire high-tech and well-armed Western world. And if it were not for the betrayal of our "elites" in the military confrontation, even in 1991, nothing good would shine for the Western armies.
            2. Rumata
              Rumata 1 October 2013 20: 22 New
              +1
              Quote: Setrac
              So it was not necessary to spread this get on topvar, if it is for internal use.

              The site is full of articles that the most persistent acquaintances are ashamed to show, read and do not know how to laugh or cry. So you don’t need Lala, the article is readable, someone interesting, you can upload ...
              1. Setrac
                Setrac 1 October 2013 21: 39 New
                +1
                Quote: Rumata
                The site is full of articles that the most persistent acquaintances are ashamed to show, read and do not know how to laugh or cry. So you don’t need Lala, the article is readable, someone interesting, you can upload ...

                I do not mind, lay it out, but do not refer to the fact that she is like "pigs and not geese" and the author "did not think", if the author does not think, let him go waving a shovel or a hammer.
      2. ATATA
        ATATA 1 October 2013 11: 36 New
        +2
        Quote: Tourist's Breakfast
        I don’t understand why you all got mad. The article does not say that the "Merkava-4" is the most modern tank in the world. In my opinion, it is clear from the article that the author meant just the most modern tank in service with the IDF, in the sense that it went through all the modifications (installation of KAZ, etc.).

        And they also say that in the USSR there were template slogans in ideology.
        I read the title of this article ...
        Barely restrained gagging ...
        It is possible that the title of the article can be understood correctly, but for this you need to live in Israel, and the article is posted HERE.
        1. Tourist Breakfast
          Tourist Breakfast 1 October 2013 11: 44 New
          +2
          It is possible that the title of the article can be understood correctly, but for this you need to live in Israel, and the article is posted HERE.


          HERE posted translation articles. The article itself was written for the Israeli media. However, let me remind you that the site has a section "Armies of the World", so I don't see any crime. Whoever doesn't like it may not read.
        2. Pimply
          Pimply 1 October 2013 16: 01 New
          0
          Quote: ATATA
          It is possible that the title of the article can be understood correctly, but for this you need to live in Israel, and the article is posted HERE.

          Dear, so get out. Then read the rules and section titles. Then see that the article is translated. You do not vomit from every "has no analogues" in Russian articles. And here even that is not. This is the most advanced tank in the Israeli army, not in the world. And you would understand this if you could not only read the letters, but also understand the text.
  • Rustam009
    Rustam009 1 October 2013 09: 07 New
    +9
    As much as everyone would like to not admit this, the army has wandered by far the most combat-ready and prepared in the world.
    1. eplewke
      eplewke 1 October 2013 09: 53 New
      0
      Prepared it is prepared ... For small point operations. In a big war, they’ll just take it apart for a week ...
      1. il grand casino
        il grand casino 1 October 2013 11: 34 New
        +5
        Quote: eplewke
        Prepared it is prepared ... For small point operations. In a big war, they’ll just take it apart for a week ...

        Would you even open a history book ... 56, 67, 73, 82 are these all point operations? Well, in this case, only the first and second world wars can be considered wars ...
        1. eplewke
          eplewke 1 October 2013 12: 03 New
          0
          Dumb as Egypt stopped the troops, instead of advancing, it’s just carelessness ... and not an example of valor ...
      2. atalef
        atalef 1 October 2013 13: 29 New
        +4
        Quote: eplewke
        Prepared it is prepared ... For small point operations. In a big war, they’ll just take it apart for a week ...

        Already prepared, the whole USSR was preparing, both the Higher School of Higher Education and the academies of officers, and in the armies (Arab) from a battalion and higher — an adviser and weapons — by the shaft and
        On October 6, 1973, on the Holy Day for Jews, Israel was attacked on all fronts by the armies of Syria, Egypt, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Morocco, Jordan, Cuba, and North Korea. The aggression against the Jewish state was led by the USSR - the Arab armies were controlled by tens of thousands of Russian officers and were armed with tens of billions of dollars of Russian weapons.

        In the open spaces from Sinai to the Golan, the largest tank battle in world history unfolded, in which more than 1 million 500 thousand military personnel and 6.500 tanks fought on both sides.

        and the result of all is one
        (as in all previous wars)
        The results of the Doomsday War for 18 days of fighting (6.10 - 24.10.1973)
        Losses of the Arab block:
        20 000 slain
        35 000 wounded
        8 prisoners
        555 aircraft shot down
        2250 tanks destroyed
        18 warships sunk

        Israeli losses:
        2 222 slain
        5 596 wounded
        294 prisoners
        102 aircraft shot down
        1036 tanks damaged, of which 407 tanks - irretrievable losses

        no one to understand. Tried and more than once. and 8 states (Arab) at the same time and suddenly and as you want. The result is one.
      3. Pimply
        Pimply 1 October 2013 16: 13 New
        +4
        Tell me why you so love to carry nonsense. One of the main elements of the preparation of the Israel Defense Forces is the fight against conventional armies. And all the main wars that she waged in the 20th century - with a many times superior enemy. The fact that now she has to steal mainly with partisan units is just a consequence of the fact that all the armies that went against the IDF were defeated.
        1. Rumata
          Rumata 1 October 2013 20: 27 New
          +4
          Quote: Pimply
          One of the main elements of the preparation of the Israel Defense Forces is the fight against conventional armies.

          Moreover, almost all training is focused on preparing soldiers for conventional wars, and only this training lasts, as half of the TOTAL military service in the Russian Federation ... But at the same time, Israeli soldiers are not ready for a big war, according to many here, but Russia will tear China like a tusik heating pad.
      4. Rustam009
        Rustam009 2 October 2013 10: 19 New
        +3
        Quote: eplewke
        Prepared it is prepared ... For small point operations. In a big war, they’ll just take it apart for a week ...


        Now there are no big wars. Modern wars are precisely distinguished by their precision. Our problem is that we are not adapting well. We were preparing for a big war and got in the nose in a point war in Chechnya, not to mention the broken tanks. Speaking of our tanks: watch the biathlon report from Alabino, I watched only the last report, and then the machine gun jammed once, the second time the track jammed at the tank (guaranteed to be destroyed in battle) or the driver breaks his forehead. Since its inception, the Israeli army has been fighting every day and manages to fight with all its neighbors and survive without significant losses and manage to exchange one captured soldier for a whole group of arrested militants, we can forget a whole battalion during a special operation in Chechnya on New Year's Eve and disown. We have built a "supertank t 90 ms" and then in a single copy, and the entire fleet is old. Therefore, there is still a very big question, who "In a big war, they will only be taken apart to pieces in a week ..."
        1. Cat
          Cat 2 October 2013 14: 38 New
          +1
          Quote: Rustam09
          Now there are no big wars. Modern wars are precisely distinguished by their precision. Our problem is that we do not adapt well. They were preparing for a big war, and in the point war in Chechnya they got a nose shot, not to mention broken tanks. Speaking of our tanks: look at the biathlon report from Alabino, I watched only the last report, and then one time the machine gun jammed, the second time the tank caterpillar jammed (guaranteed to be destroyed in battle) or the driver breaks his forehead. Since the formation, the Israeli army fights every day and manages to fight with all its neighbors and survives without significant losses and manages to exchange one captured soldier for a whole group of arrested militants, we can forget a whole battalion during a special operation in Chechnya on New Year's Day and disown.

          The problem of the Chechen war, IMHO, was not a "point". And the fact that on "theirs" side people fought, at one time they served in that "correct" Soviet Army. And they were also commanded by former SA officers, many with experience of combat operations in similar conditions (Afghans). Opposed to them - untrained boys, and even under the command of populist-shit and other "privatizers". One New Year's assault on Grozny is worth something ... It was not the tankers themselves who climbed into the city without infantry, someone gave them the order to move. Where, by the way, was this "someone" when they were shot, or at least for how long they imprisoned? That's right, I haven't heard either. And this is one more reason for the "successful" hostilities - the impunity and irresponsibility of high-ranking idiots (or, if you like, traitors). By 2000, all of this had been cleared more or less - thanks to which the tanks burned less often and fewer people died. Although fucking ... snake was also enough ...
          Quote: Rustam09
          We have built a "supertank t 90 ms" and then in a single copy, and the entire fleet is old. Therefore, there is still a very big question, who "In a big war, they will only be taken apart into chips in a week ..."

          That's right, the big question. For the big war will not end in a week, and therefore the bourgeois "supertechnics" can easily start having problems, even without the fire impact of our "junk". All this equipment requires high-quality service, expensive spare parts and consumables, and so on. All this must be brought in somehow, and before that - also somewhere to take. Sales of the United States with its printing press - in 1991 they were pushed with a shortage of "smart" and "high-precision" bombs, and were forced to either bomb Baghdad with conventional landmines from high altitudes (and appropriate accuracy), or lower the fancy "stealth" into the zone the actions of the MZA (which sadly affected the number of the latter). Or 20 years later, in Libya, when the French "unexpectedly" ran out of cruise missiles ... There was such a thing, although no one thinks to call either war "big".
          So really, the question is who will benefit: sophisticated high-tech equipment, or one that is simpler and more reliable.
    2. vahatak
      vahatak 1 October 2013 11: 30 New
      +2
      Did the army wave? Probably, yeah. That's just the last full-scale war they fought in 1973, and then only with terrorists.
      1. Tourist Breakfast
        Tourist Breakfast 1 October 2013 11: 50 New
        +2
        Did the army wave? Probably, yeah. That's just the last full-scale war they fought in 1973, and then only with terrorists.


        That is, you acknowledge that the army of dad Assad in the 82nd in Lebanon consisted of terrorists. Bravely, bravely!
        1. vahatak
          vahatak 1 October 2013 12: 12 New
          0
          I admit that Israel did not have to exert every effort to win this war, as the backbone of all the Arab armies was broken earlier.
          1. Tourist Breakfast
            Tourist Breakfast 1 October 2013 13: 04 New
            +3
            I admit that Israel did not have to exert every effort to win this war, as the backbone of all the Arab armies was broken earlier.

            For Israel, the First Lebanon War was quite serious for itself and the losses by our standards are sensitive.
            1. vahatak
              vahatak 1 October 2013 13: 55 New
              0
              I am not saying that the wars were not serious. All wars are grave, but a war in which the entire army is involved is suitable for demonstrating the entire military power of the state, and there are few such wars. That is why it is difficult to say which army is the most combat-ready. because if you conduct a complete mobilization, the average training and armament will be lower in any army.
              1. Pimply
                Pimply 1 October 2013 16: 15 New
                +1
                Quote: vahatak
                I am not saying that the wars were not serious. All wars are grave, but a war in which the entire army is involved is suitable for demonstrating the entire military power of the state, and there are few such wars.

                That is, you do not consider the Chechen war the first and second, as well as the war in Afghanistan and the Five-Day War?
                1. vahatak
                  vahatak 1 October 2013 17: 48 New
                  +1
                  In my opinion, you gave the wrong quote. And the fact that after the Second World War the Soviet army did not fight on a large scale, wrote another person.
            2. Setrac
              Setrac 1 October 2013 14: 16 New
              +2
              Quote: Tourist's Breakfast
              For Israel, the First Lebanon War was quite serious for itself and the losses by our standards are sensitive.

              By your LOWEST standards.
              1. Pimply
                Pimply 1 October 2013 16: 15 New
                0
                How they are understated - you can explain.
          2. atalef
            atalef 1 October 2013 13: 21 New
            0
            Quote: vahatak
            I admit that Israel did not have to exert every effort to win this war, as the backbone of all the Arab armies was broken earlier.

            do not tell me by whom?
            1. vahatak
              vahatak 1 October 2013 13: 57 New
              +1
              I see you like it when they say your victories. Can I shout three times that Israel defeated the Arabs? It’s as if someone doesn’t know about it.
              1. Pimply
                Pimply 1 October 2013 16: 31 New
                -1
                Judging by some comments, a lot of people do not know.
      2. atalef
        atalef 1 October 2013 11: 54 New
        +3
        Quote: vahatak
        Did the army wave? Probably, yeah. That's just the last full-scale war they fought in 1973, and then only with terrorists.

        how do I understand SA after 45, where, when and with whom? in the sense of a full-scale war
        1. vahatak
          vahatak 1 October 2013 12: 15 New
          +3
          Did I ever say that the SA is the most combat-ready and prepared ??? Nobody refuses that a significant part of the IDF is always ready for war and very successfully fulfills its tasks, but I will not dare to categorically call the whole army the most in the world.
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 1 October 2013 16: 34 New
            -1
            Quote: vahatak
            Did I ever say that the SA is the most combat-ready and prepared ??? Nobody refuses that a significant part of the IDF is always ready for war and very successfully fulfills its tasks, but I will not dare to categorically call the whole army the most in the world.

            She is not the strongest in the world. That's bullshit. One of the strongest and most alert - yes. IDF aviation, for example, is comparable in size to the British and French air forces combined.
  • Strashila
    Strashila 1 October 2013 09: 25 New
    +4
    Everyone can naughty from a distance ... you drive into the town ... and then we'll see.
    1. Professor
      1 October 2013 09: 35 New
      +5
      Quote: Strashila
      Everyone can naughty from a distance ... you drive into the town ... and then we'll see.

      1. I just looked a tank biathlon. It turns out that even with a yellow, non-moving, light-contrasting square, from a place from a distance of 2 km, not everyone can

      2. In the town ... have you looked?



      1. eplewke
        eplewke 1 October 2013 09: 55 New
        +5
        Against the half-barefoot, armed slingshots of the Palestinians, why not ride a tank? request
        1. il grand casino
          il grand casino 1 October 2013 11: 37 New
          +6
          Quote: eplewke
          Against the half-barefoot, armed slingshots of the Palestinians, why not ride a tank? request


          that is, RPG-7 and -29 do you equate to slingshots? Well then, sorry ... we also mean slingshots in service ...
          1. eplewke
            eplewke 1 October 2013 12: 05 New
            -1
            Compared to the super-super-modern super tank, the Merkava 4 RPG-7 seems like a slingshot ...
            1. il grand casino
              il grand casino 1 October 2013 12: 10 New
              0
              And the Kornets are also slingshots? ... I personally had a better opinion about the manufacturers of Russian weapons ...
            2. Cat
              Cat 1 October 2013 12: 36 New
              +5
              Quote: eplewke
              Compared to the super-super-modern super tank, the Merkava 4 RPG-7 seems like a slingshot ...

              a single tank is quite possible to stop and ditch even without RPG-7, especially if in the city. Be it even Merkava, even Abrams, even though Armata does not exist yet. But if the tank interacts with infantry and other military branches, and all this is also under the control of a competent commander, then the super-sophisticated Javelin against the ancient T-62 is probably not a guarantee, but a lottery. Something like this.
              1. Pimply
                Pimply 1 October 2013 16: 45 New
                0
                Quote: Cat
                a single tank is quite possible to stop and ditch even without RPG-7, especially if in the city. Be it even Merkava, even Abrams, even though Armata does not exist yet. But if the tank interacts with infantry and other military branches, and all this is also under the control of a competent commander, then the super-sophisticated Javelin against the ancient T-62 is probably not a guarantee, but a lottery. Something like this.

                And here you are in many ways right
          2. Saburov
            Saburov 1 October 2013 18: 20 New
            0
            Of course, only RPG-29, perhaps there will be one on 5000 Palestinians and one RPG-1000 on 7, everything else is Chinese and alterations by local craftsmen, plus the Palestinians are absolutely unlearned in fights of this type, so small pranksters, mostly stones and sticks and missiles of an incomprehensible range and an incomprehensible design, the AK-47 is the only good weapon that is there, and that is not in the quantities in which we would like.
            1. Aaron Zawi
              Aaron Zawi 1 October 2013 21: 03 New
              0
              Quote: Saburov
              Of course, only RPG-29, perhaps there will be one on 5000 Palestinians and one RPG-1000 on 7, everything else is Chinese and alterations by local craftsmen, plus the Palestinians are absolutely unlearned in fights of this type, so small pranksters, mostly stones and sticks and missiles of an incomprehensible range and an incomprehensible design, the AK-47 is the only good weapon that is there, and that is not in the quantities in which we would like.

              Enough of flogging nonsense, it hurts. Hamas has an army an order of magnitude larger, better trained and armed than the Dudaev’s formations in 1994.
              1. ruslan207
                ruslan207 1 October 2013 22: 00 New
                0
                Aron Zaavi-It’s for nothing that you had Dudayev’s 94 storages left from the Soviet Union, and there were tanks and planes and the Arabs were still those warriors, there’s just a mess in Russia in 94
              2. 31231
                31231 1 October 2013 23: 20 New
                0
                Dudaev had former SA military personnel, like himself. Hamas too?
                1. Pimply
                  Pimply 2 October 2013 01: 21 New
                  -2
                  Quote: 31231
                  Dudaev had former SA military personnel, like himself. Hamas too?

                  Basayev served in the aerodrome service team and was a traffic controller, Yandarbiev was a philologist, Zakaev was an actor in the Grozny Theater, Gelaev was a builder, Raduyev was a plasterer and Komsomol worker, Barayev was a traffic cop, Should I continue? Of the most prominent combat commanders, only Maskhadov and Dudaev had a higher military education.

                  The guys from Hamas, and before that from Fatah, were trained at military camps throughout the Middle East. Who only in their preparation was not noticed. By the way, I don’t know that the guys from Fatah at the time were trained and armed by the same USSR. Since 1975, the organization’s militants have been trained in the USSR at the 165th training center for the training of foreign military personnel?
                  1. Saburov
                    Saburov 2 October 2013 04: 22 New
                    +1
                    What kind of combat training can be discussed, about militant training camps, it’s like a performance for the especially gifted among the underdeveloped, and all our Caucasian friends who served in the ranks of the SA can’t pick your nose, don’t even compare. What trained Palestinian army ? What is she armed with? Believe me, I am aware of this better than you. If Palestine had fighters like the Czechs in 94, you would have sailed right there and got a permanent war on your territory, and then you would have indiscriminately slaughtered everything that moves from Palestine, although you almost do it.
        2. Pimply
          Pimply 1 October 2013 16: 37 New
          -2
          Quote: eplewke
          Against the half-barefoot, armed slingshots of the Palestinians, why not ride a tank?

          Are you talking about the guys who created the concept of modern terror, and receive funding and weapons from most of the Arab world and Iran? Are you talking about guys whose living standards are higher than in Russia?
          1. 31231
            31231 1 October 2013 22: 16 New
            +1
            Are you talking about guys whose living standards are higher than in Russia?


            The standard of living of Hezbalons and Hamas residents is higher than Russians ?! Pimpled, please teach me a lesson in your economy.
        3. Dezzed
          Dezzed 2 October 2013 18: 04 New
          +1
          Quote: eplewke
          Against the half-barefoot, armed slingshots of the Palestinians, why not ride a tank? request


          Ah, if only slingshots! they only had twigs!
          and they were not half-barefoot but completely barefoot. horror!
      2. smersh70
        smersh70 1 October 2013 10: 01 New
        +6
        Quote: Professor
        In the town ... looked?


        but not in such a town ... where morning and everyone is sleeping peacefully laughing Your Merkava would have shas in Aleppo or on the outskirts of Damascus ..... or in the mountains of Karabakh ... to see how they are there in the dense forests .... in the mud they will climb steep mountains and shoot at high-rises ... ..
        1. igor67
          igor67 1 October 2013 10: 17 New
          -2
          Quote: smersh70
          Quote: Professor
          In the town ... looked?


          but not in such a town ... where morning and everyone is sleeping peacefully laughing Your Merkava would have shas in Aleppo or on the outskirts of Damascus ..... or in the mountains of Karabakh ... to see how they are there in the dense forests .... in the mud they will climb steep mountains and shoot at high-rises ... ..

          Dear article not about the tank, but about the crew of the tank, about the tank itself there are already a lot of articles with photo reports on the site, go to the archive section of the armored vehicles, there are a lot of pictures, but the video is especially for you here the tank along the Golan Heights, this is mountains
          1. smersh70
            smersh70 1 October 2013 10: 35 New
            +4
            Quote: igor67
            in the Golan Heights, this is the mountains


            Hahaha !!!!!!!! and this is the mountains ...... laughing mountain plateau ... some kind of plain)))) we have such ones at an altitude of 1500 meters ... and you, dear, about the altitudes of 3000-4500 .... that's where the mountains are ....
            1. Professor
              1 October 2013 10: 43 New
              0
              Quote: smersh70
              You dear about the heights of 3000-4500 .... that's where the mountains

              And who was fighting on tanks at such heights? 2400 Hermon does not suit you or give him the Himalayas? wink
              1. eplewke
                eplewke 1 October 2013 11: 16 New
                +4
                India and Pakistan are fighting for Kashmir at about such heights. And tanks are used in the mountains. India in vain what are they buying T-90S?
                1. Professor
                  1 October 2013 11: 30 New
                  -5
                  Quote: eplewke
                  India and Pakistan are fighting for Kashmir at about such heights. And tanks are used in the mountains.

                  What are you saying? Have you seen a map of the war zone? wink
                  1. eplewke
                    eplewke 1 October 2013 12: 08 New
                    +4
                    saw! You can clearly look at the heights and where the database was conducted.
              2. smersh70
                smersh70 1 October 2013 11: 50 New
                +6
                Quote: Professor
                And whoever fought on tanks at such heights


                Dear, look at the map of the military operations in Karabakh .. Small Caucasus ... Murovsky Pass ..... and it seems tense with geography and history smile
                1. Professor
                  1 October 2013 12: 13 New
                  -3
                  Quote: smersh70
                  Dear, look at the map of the military operations in Karabakh .. Small Caucasus ... Murovsky Pass ..... and it seems tense with geography and history

                  Dear, I was born and raised in Transcaucasia and I am familiar with geography there firsthand. Nevertheless, he did not suspect that Karabakh was now in the Himalayas. fellow

                  Quote: eplewke
                  saw! You can clearly look at the heights and where the database was conducted.

                  You go to kindergarten with this card. Let's get the card 1: 50000.
                  1. smersh70
                    smersh70 1 October 2013 13: 47 New
                    +4
                    Dear, I was born and raised in Transcaucasia and I am familiar with geography there firsthand. Nevertheless, he did not suspect that Karabakh was now in the Himalayas. fellow

                    although they were born .... but probably on a flat territory))))) .. they left so quickly that they forgot to raise their heads and look at the Big and Small Caucasus .... well, nothing, you have the most sophisticated equipment ... look on a card in the internet ... and if you can’t, then you are welcome hi ..
                    1. Professor
                      1 October 2013 13: 55 New
                      -5
                      I ignore verbal diarrhea. You really work, discard the map of the war zone. It is desirable that the General Staff 1: 50000, they are now in the public domain ...
                      1. smersh70
                        smersh70 1 October 2013 14: 19 New
                        +5
                        Quote: Professor
                        It is desirable that the General Staff 1: 50000, they are now in the public domain ...


                        Professor .. You’re even in Mossad ..... but I’m Smerr ... laughing ..
                      2. Professor
                        1 October 2013 14: 27 New
                        0
                        blah-blah-blah
                        http://loadmap.net/ru
          2. atalef
            atalef 1 October 2013 13: 35 New
            +4
            Quote: smersh70
            Hahaha !!!!!!!! and this is the mountains ...... mountain plateau ... some kind of plain)))) we have these at an altitude of 1500 meters ... and you, dear, about the altitude of 3000- 4500 .... that's where the mountains are ....

            I certainly understand all your irony. Of course, we are fighting at heights of up to a kilometer (there are no others), but those who are against us. - those are exactly on the heights of Everest. Otherwise, how to explain all their shameful defeats, despite the superiority at times, in everything from technology to personnel.
            What else helps us is that our country is small, you can quickly get to the front and the same few people - it’s easier to assemble them. A wonderful reason for justifying (by the Arabs) all of their shameful defeats. Indeed, by these criteria, the number of people and the territory of the territory can never compare with us laughing
          3. Pimply
            Pimply 1 October 2013 17: 03 New
            -4
            Tell me, at what height do you think tanks should fight?
        2. vahatak
          vahatak 1 October 2013 11: 33 New
          +1
          This is your article about the crew, and he has a comment about Karabakh, dense forests ..... In short, he wants Merkava. How much do you know?
          1. smersh70
            smersh70 1 October 2013 11: 51 New
            +2
            Quote: vahatak
            How much do you know?


            but for the price we will not stand ....... laughing we have in bulk .. so it’s not your problem .. and so they bought from them for 2 billion dollars ......
            1. vahatak
              vahatak 1 October 2013 12: 52 New
              +5
              Quote: smersh70
              and for the price we will not stand ....... we have in bulk

              You are careful there. it's the Jews)))
              1. smersh70
                smersh70 1 October 2013 13: 49 New
                +2
                Quote: vahatak
                it's the Jews)))


                here a joke was a month ago about an old Jew)) so he said dying ... take care of the Armenians .. while they take care of everyone ... and how they will take everyone away, then they will be indignant at us smile
      3. Professor
        1 October 2013 10: 41 New
        -2
        Quote: smersh70
        but not in such a town ... where morning and everyone peacefully sleeps your Merkava would have shas in Aleppo or on the outskirts of Damascus ..... or in the mountains of Karabakh ... to see how they are there in the dense forests .... in the mud they will climb steep mountains and shoot at high-rises .....

        Not like that? Alepo rests compared to Gaza. Close building, tunnels with explosives, Cornets ...
        1. eplewke
          eplewke 1 October 2013 11: 20 New
          +5
          Come on? Aleppo is a paradise beach compared to Gaza, if you understand correctly ... And in Aleppo there are no underground tunnels? No hornets? No trained thugs? No dense buildings? I would say worse - there is a ruined building, which is an even greater danger! Yeah ... Professor, I thought you were a very educated and intelligent person ... Or you are operating with too much hurt pride ...
          1. Professor
            1 October 2013 11: 31 New
            -7
            Quote: eplewke
            No hornets?

            Kornetov however, I didn’t watch there, but I saw enough tanks with flying towers.
            1. eplewke
              eplewke 1 October 2013 12: 15 New
              0
              Take a look at anna-news, not the BBC. There, in the daily reports, there are a bunch of reports about captured convoys and trucks with hornets and RPG-29. Moreover, in the province of Aleppo! Hornets are there! And this is a fact! Even on the video of the bearded there are launches of the Hornets! To challenge this is either stupidly not knowing the situation (which I doubt), or a prelude to distorting facts in favor of the super-duper ofigensko carrot 4 ...
              1. il grand casino
                il grand casino 1 October 2013 12: 19 New
                -4
                Quote: eplewke
                Take a look at anna-news, not the BBC. There, in the daily reports, there are a bunch of reports about captured convoys and trucks with hornets and RPG-29. Moreover, in the province of Aleppo! Hornets are there! And this is a fact! Even on the video of the bearded there are launches of the Hornets! To challenge this is either stupidly not knowing the situation (which I doubt), or a prelude to distorting facts in favor of the super-duper ofigensko carrot 4 ...

                Do you mean these Hornets? laughing
                http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_F/A-18_Hornet
                1. eplewke
                  eplewke 1 October 2013 15: 09 New
                  0
                  This is a typo wise guy!
              2. Professor
                1 October 2013 12: 19 New
                -2
                Quote: eplewke
                Hornets are there!

                Happy for them, but what about Cornets (the first letter "K" as in the word "castrat")?
                1. eplewke
                  eplewke 1 October 2013 15: 10 New
                  +2
                  It's a typo. I see that you no longer have facts and arguments, since you began to be petty, to focus attention on such things. You perfectly understood what was meant.
          2. Pimply
            Pimply 1 October 2013 17: 30 New
            -3
            Quote: eplewke
            Come on? Aleppo is a paradise beach compared to Gaza, if you understand correctly ... And in Aleppo there are no underground tunnels? No hornets? No trained thugs? No dense buildings? I would say worse - there is a ruined building, which is an even greater danger! Yeah ... Professor, I thought you were a very educated and intelligent person ... Or you are operating with too much hurt pride ...


            Let's think ... A place where fortifications have been prepared for many years against a place where a civil war suddenly broke out. I wonder where the fortifications and tunnels will be?
            1. 31231
              31231 1 October 2013 22: 27 New
              +1
              A place where fortifications were prepared for many years against a place where a civil war broke out. I wonder where the fortifications and tunnels will be?


              Maybe the infantry simply did not modify it and relied on the power of the Tsakhal ?! How many watched the video from that war, the infantry near the BTT are also crowded in the BTT. You did not learn infantry patrols and searches ?! It seems that the battlefield is not large. And it seems that the infantry had all the hope for tanks and aircraft.
              1. Pimply
                Pimply 1 October 2013 23: 45 New
                -2
                Quote: 31231
                Maybe the infantry simply did not modify it and relied on the power of the Tsakhal ?! How many watched the video from that war, the infantry near the BTT are also crowded in the BTT. You did not learn infantry patrols and searches ?! It seems that the battlefield is not large. And it seems that the infantry had all the hope for tanks and aircraft.

                Have you seen the Hizabullah fortifications in Lebanon? Or fought in urban conditions? The infantry acted competently. The mistake was a certain underestimation of the level of fortifications of Hezbollah. Which required more time to overcome the defense of the militants.

                In Gaza, the defense of Hamas was literally opened like a can opener.
                1. 31231
                  31231 2 October 2013 00: 03 New
                  +1
                  May be. But I was not there and I can be mistaken. It’s just that there are videos, where ATGMs are hitting from the heights of the convoy. It would be nice to have a few landmines, but judging by your statements, massive missile launches and grenade shots. What the watch was doing to me is not clear.
                  1. Pimply
                    Pimply 2 October 2013 01: 50 New
                    -1
                    Quote: 31231
                    May be. But I was not there and I can be mistaken. It’s just that there are videos, where ATGMs are hitting from the heights of the convoy. It would be nice to have a few landmines, but judging by your statements, massive missile launches and grenade shots. What the watch was doing to me is not clear.

                    Massive does not mean massive. And the war is not a beautiful picture, in which he painted - so it all went.
      4. Pimply
        Pimply 1 October 2013 16: 46 New
        0
        Quote: smersh70
        but not in such a town ... where morning and everyone peacefully sleeps your Merkava would have shas in Aleppo or on the outskirts of Damascus ..... or in the mountains of Karabakh ... to see how they are there in the dense forests .... in the mud they will climb steep mountains and shoot at high-rises .....

        Merkava was in similar conditions, for example, in Lebanon or Gaza. Do you think Aleppo is something very different?
    2. smersh70
      smersh70 1 October 2013 10: 40 New
      +2
      Quote: Professor
      I looked recently tank biathlon


      and now look .. as a Jew fought on the T-72
      1. Silkway0026
        Silkway0026 1 October 2013 11: 00 New
        +3
        something is completely off topic.
        1. vahatak
          vahatak 1 October 2013 12: 30 New
          +1
          They have all the topics about Karabakh.
          1. OffenroR
            OffenroR 2 October 2013 00: 13 New
            0
            And the problem with Garabagh (read - with Armenia) is like a bone in the throat for us ... And this is our only problem. But Armenia has problems with the throat ... will soon drown.
      2. Papakiko
        Papakiko 1 October 2013 11: 19 New
        -1
        Quote: smersh70
        and now look .. as a Jew fought on the T-72

        and why not a Frenchman or an American ended up.
        Mountain Jew, by comparison, is only the V-th of the dancers of the Mariinsky Theater.
        And the words about the feats of arms and the tragic death during the dismounting of the bodies of the dead fellow soldiers and at all smack of havoc.
        In no way do I want to tarnish the memory of those who died in internecine wars after the collapse of the USSR.
        1. smersh70
          smersh70 1 October 2013 11: 44 New
          +3
          Quote: Papakiko
          and why not a Frenchman or an American ended up.


          Well, if you have a video about it, put it like that ........ and put the video due to the fact that dear Igor67 said that it’s not about tanks that are written, but about crews .... so I put that not only they have super-muper crews ... but Jews also know how to fight on Soviet tanks !!!!!
      3. tulpar
        tulpar 1 October 2013 11: 20 New
        +1
        Yes, Albert was a beast, heaped a lot of jackals!
      4. Professor
        1 October 2013 11: 32 New
        0
        Quote: smersh70
        and now look .. as a Jew fought on the T-72

        Glad for him and what's next?
        1. smersh70
          smersh70 1 October 2013 11: 53 New
          +1
          Quote: Professor
          Glad for him and what's next?

          ..and where is your Jewish solidarity !! You occupied the Palestinian lands because of the fact that you thought that there a few thousand years ago a foot of a Jew entered there .... hi
          1. Professor
            1 October 2013 12: 14 New
            +1
            Quote: smersh70
            ..and where is your Jewish solidarity !! You occupied the Palestinian lands because of the fact that you thought that there a few thousand years ago a foot of a Jew entered sometime ...

            I warn you, I do not feed the trolls.
          2. Pimply
            Pimply 1 October 2013 17: 32 New
            0
            Quote: smersh70
            ..and where is your Jewish solidarity !! You occupied the Palestinian lands because of the fact that you thought that there a few thousand years ago a foot of a Jew entered there ....

            Are you trolling, child? Yes, so inept. Yes, on a national theme. Bravo. Good girl. Go on. Ban obviously looks forward to you.
    3. Setrac
      Setrac 1 October 2013 13: 26 New
      +3
      Quote: Professor
      2. In the town ... have you looked?

      What is this elf village? You do not know what the city looks like in which military operations are conducted? What is indicated in the photo is NOT WAR.
  • Hudo
    Hudo 1 October 2013 09: 36 New
    +1
    Quote: Strashila
    Everyone can naughty from a distance ... you drive into the town ... and then we'll see.


    She will not go to town. There, an Arabian barefoot kid quickly put this super-pepelatsu of a red cock, and it turns out that the king is naked.
  • Pimply
    Pimply 1 October 2013 16: 35 New
    -1
    Well, when they took Shchem (Nablus) tanks entered with us. AND?

    By the way, not everyone can distance, excuse me.
  • alone
    alone 1 October 2013 22: 09 New
    +3
    Quote: Strashila
    Everyone can naughty from a distance ... you drive into the town ... and then we'll see.


    their minister is not a rook. and they enter the city only when there is no one to shoot
  • In the reeds
    In the reeds 1 October 2013 09: 27 New
    0
    I am an Ashkelon born in Russia and I know what Kasamy, Grad, is not by hearsay. What is a howling water alarm in a 130 thousandth city in the 21st century. And with all my rejection that they shamelessly honk under the windows at night, in the morning they sit in tanks
    1. yanus
      yanus 1 October 2013 10: 04 New
      +6
      Quote: In the reeds
      I am an Ashkelon born in Russia

      "born in Russia" to add to anything. You have already decided on your departure.
      1. eplewke
        eplewke 1 October 2013 10: 26 New
        +4
        As I already said. I was born in Russia, my mother is Ukrainian, my father is Russian, the Jew himself lives in Israel. "Convenient" people. Where it is good, there is a homeland.
        1. Alexkorzun
          Alexkorzun 1 October 2013 11: 22 New
          +5
          there was once a definition in use - "rootless cosmopolitan" ... despite the odiousness, capaciously to the limit !!!
          1. atalef
            atalef 1 October 2013 14: 11 New
            +1
            Alexkorzun Today, 11:22 ↑
            there was once a definition in use - "rootless cosmopolitan" ... despite the odiousness, capaciously to the limit !!!

            As I understand it, Snowden is not concerned; he is a hero and probably even a patriot
    2. Setrac
      Setrac 1 October 2013 13: 36 New
      +1
      Quote: In the reeds
      What is a howling water alarm in a 130 thousandth city in the 21st century.

      After which (the indicated howl) this same city no one attacks. Look at the chronicle of the second world what happens after an air-raid alarm. And you have so, educational anxiety.
      1. Thunderbolt
        Thunderbolt 1 October 2013 21: 58 New
        +1
        The guys from KKK respect Snowden, because. he spoke out against the "feds"
  • ed65b
    ed65b 1 October 2013 09: 30 New
    +1
    the most, this is our dear Russian Army.
    1. eplewke
      eplewke 1 October 2013 09: 58 New
      0
      And after five years we will still be the best! Merkava will seem like a cart, and Tsahal - a detachment of terrorists ...
      1. Silkway0026
        Silkway0026 1 October 2013 11: 01 New
        +8
        Duc ... they are the first terrorists in the Middle East.
  • Sars
    Sars 1 October 2013 09: 37 New
    +5
    It is so "most modern" that for another twenty years it will be "the most modern" (Americans will not give money for a new one now, otherwise it would become "the most modern").
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 1 October 2013 17: 49 New
      0
      It is not profitable for Americans to give Israel money to develop tanks, believe me. Tank developments were always carried out with the money of Israeli taxpayers.
  • 128mgb
    128mgb 1 October 2013 09: 41 New
    +4
    When stones are thrown at us, we don’t give back ... Well, hereinafter.
  • Farvil
    Farvil 1 October 2013 09: 42 New
    +3
    our tanks in Syria prove every day that Russian tanks are the coolest.
  • Kostyanich
    Kostyanich 1 October 2013 09: 42 New
    +5
    recently watched tank biathlon pretty cool sight recommend
    professor why not send a couple of 4 carrots to the competition
    talk there with your waiting smile
    1. Professor
      1 October 2013 09: 46 New
      -3
      Quote: kostyanich
      professor why not send a couple of 4 carrots to the competition

      Tsahal does not engage in phalometry. Once he is fighting.
      IDF soldiers prevent terrorists from entering Gaza
      Ask the Czechs or Germans. They have Merkava 1 on the move.
      1. leon-iv
        leon-iv 1 October 2013 10: 20 New
        +7
        Tsahal does not engage in phalometry. Once he is fighting.

        That’s why I love the Israelis, because it’s for extra modesty. laughing
        Can't you find a single tank lying around? It is possible with a female crew. I think our helpers will pick up the Syrian Express on the way back
        1. Professor
          1 October 2013 11: 15 New
          +1
          Quote: leon-iv
          You won’t find a single tank lying around? It is possible with a female crew.

          It is possible with the female.


          1. Setrac
            Setrac 1 October 2013 13: 42 New
            +1
            War has no female face. These Israelis are such ids. The woman is the mother, and the war is hardening.
            1. Pimply
              Pimply 1 October 2013 18: 07 New
              0
              Quote: Setrac
              War has no female face. These Israelis are such ids. The woman is the mother, and the war is hardening.

              A man is a father. Your ingenious logic.
      2. vahatak
        vahatak 1 October 2013 11: 36 New
        0
        Or maybe Centurion? I’m serious.
    2. atalef
      atalef 1 October 2013 14: 16 New
      +1
      recently watched tank biathlon pretty cool sight recommend
      professor why not send a couple of 4 carrots to the competition
      talk there with your waiting

      I watched the same thing. Given that these are the best crews, I'm sorry - a pretty wretched sight. not to hit from 2 x kilometers on a fixed target., in my opinion, the yellow one never hit, despite the instructions from the tower, but about the radio-controlled projectile, which also did not hit. .A time aiming - the same yellow spent 2 minutes.
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 1 October 2013 18: 08 New
        -3
        Yes, this sucks looked, especially considering that these are the best crews.
    3. Pimply
      Pimply 1 October 2013 17: 51 New
      -2
      Do you really think that tank biathlon is some really serious event?
  • Prometey
    Prometey 1 October 2013 09: 43 New
    +5
    I do this job from a tank in every ambush, and also physically visit the operational part of the observers in order to become as familiar as possible with the area and potential targets. There is always something to learn and I can say that I know the whole area from memory. "
    But the strawberries of the fighters of the most-most tanks still pulls laughing
  • Yura
    Yura 1 October 2013 09: 45 New
    15
    A normal article about normal soldiers, their everyday lives in difficult conditions, when it comes to a plowing farmer, it is clear that they understand why everything is and are proud of what they are doing. When I served an urgent, quite a while ago truth, I didn’t know any other soldiers in the Soviet Army, and now we have soldiers in the Russian Army no worse, my son also served with him and me and those who were near us there was no question why all this, while there is evil on Earth, the soldier has to confront it. And for what people what is evil is a different, complicated and often unresponsive question from other nations. Article plus.
  • In the reeds
    In the reeds 1 October 2013 09: 51 New
    -10 qualifying.
    Quote: Strashila
    Everyone can naughty from a distance ... you drive into the town ... and then we'll see.

    And we entered and we will enter unfortunately. But when we decide what is enough (to enter) you will regret
    1. Hudo
      Hudo 1 October 2013 09: 54 New
      +7
      Quote: In the reeds
      Quote: Strashila
      Everyone can naughty from a distance ... you drive into the town ... and then we'll see.

      And we entered and we will enter unfortunately. But when we decide what is enough (to enter) you will regret


      And what, if not secret, have to regret? Will the Earth come across a celestial axis?
      1. 31231
        31231 1 October 2013 10: 18 New
        +4
        Most likely, he suggests that the Palestinians will come to us in the Caucasus.
        Nitanyaga himself will agree with them and pay wink
        1. Hudo
          Hudo 1 October 2013 10: 22 New
          +5
          Quote: 31231
          Most likely, he suggests that the Palestinians will come to us in the Caucasus.


          Oh how !!! And I didn’t even know that Israel holds the sky on its shoulders like the mythical Atlas. laughing
        2. igor67
          igor67 1 October 2013 11: 47 New
          +8
          Quote: 31231
          Most likely, he suggests that the Palestinians will come to us in the Caucasus.
          Nitanyaga himself will agree with them and pay wink

          Did you understand what you wrote yourself? There were Palestinians in the Caucasus in the 90s and many and many Russian soldiers were killed, and by the way Hamas supported and financed them very much: In January-February 2000, anti-Russian demonstrations were held in Shekhem and Gaza, organized by the closest associates of the leader of Hamas Sheikh Ahmad Yassin (in including the speaker of Hamas in the Gaza Strip, Abdel Aziz Rantisi). Participants in these actions burned Russian flags and portraits of President Putin and chanted anti-Russian slogans. As Lenta.ru reported on February 23, 2000, the then speaker of Hamas in the Gaza Strip, at one of such demonstrations, held at the Red Cross building in Gaza, demanded that Moscow immediately cease hostilities in Chechnya. On October 16 of the same year, Sheikh Yasin himself, in an interview with the Moscow newspaper Vremya Novostey, "urged Muslims fighting in Chechnya" to "fight against Russia." “We have our own occupier, they have their own,” the Hamas leader said. In August 2001, the IDF publication Be-Makhane, referring to the office of the head of the AMAN military intelligence, reported that Hamas had provided financial assistance to the "Chechen rebels".

          I understand or don’t understand yours not to hang over to Israel, but the paradox is why are friends or partners killing Russian soldiers all the same partners, why when only one state in the world officially supported Russia in the war in Chechnya is still the enemy, and friends condemned all the same friends?
          1. il grand casino
            il grand casino 1 October 2013 11: 57 New
            +1
            Igor ... in order to know the details you described, you need to be interested in this, read books, etc. ... in order to write "IDF - shit" you need a couple of seconds and a working keyboard)))
          2. 31231
            31231 1 October 2013 22: 32 New
            0
            Number do not tell me ?! And then somehow our media did not publish this info.
      2. eplewke
        eplewke 1 October 2013 10: 29 New
        +2
        We will regret that too quickly Dzahal pulled to pieces ...
    2. The comment was deleted.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • In the reeds
    In the reeds 1 October 2013 10: 06 New
    -16 qualifying.
    Quote: Prometey
    I do this job from a tank in every ambush, and also physically visit the operational part of the observers in order to become as familiar as possible with the area and potential targets. There is always something to learn and I can say that I know the whole area from memory. "
    But the strawberries of the fighters of the most-most tanks still pulls laughing

    Where is Avas pulling? On mr
    1. yastr
      yastr 1 October 2013 10: 44 New
      +6
      You are so smart, you still do not press the skull? :)
    2. Prometey
      Prometey 1 October 2013 10: 45 New
      +2
      Quote: In the reeds
      Where is Avas pulling? On mr

      Sitting in the tank you need to think about the tank, and not about the observers, you are flat-humorous ours.
  • Aubert
    Aubert 1 October 2013 10: 22 New
    +2
    Spacious in their tank
    1. Hudo
      Hudo 1 October 2013 10: 25 New
      +2
      Quote: Aubert
      Spacious in their tank


      Yeah! A noble target with a silhouette very reminiscent of a furniture van pierced by a cart shafts.
    2. leon-iv
      leon-iv 1 October 2013 10: 30 New
      +3
      Duc is a special region, what to do. There, they owe them a debt.
  • Canep
    Canep 1 October 2013 10: 27 New
    +5
    Tank Merkava 4 on the border with Gaza. "In full combat readiness"

    Good to you Professor. As a sailor I want to ask you: is the ship in full combat readiness if sailors stagger on its deck? Most probably not. So tankers sticking out of the hatches say that the tank is on the march, and not in full combat readiness.
    1. Cat
      Cat 1 October 2013 10: 43 New
      +3
      Quote: Canep
      Good to you Professor. As a sailor I want to ask you: is the ship in full combat readiness if sailors stagger on its deck? Most probably not. So tankers sticking out of the hatches say that the tank is on the march, and not in full combat readiness

      Well, you never know what they have written in the combat charter - what and where should stick out. The machine guns on the tower - they need to be brought in with their hands, so the komantka with the gunner leaned out, in readiness to cut off the queue of the vile adversary. And the fact that the gun was left unattended - you think ... well, where did Hezbollah have some tanks there, why shoot a gun? =)))

      Well, plus, as in a bearded anecdote, there is a gesheft: if the tankers do not stick out of the tower, the enemy sniper will have no one to shoot, so he will stop buying bullets from the Tsakhal. Not good, in general, it will turn out, unprofitable =)))
      1. Professor
        1 October 2013 11: 34 New
        -1
        Quote: Cat
        Machine guns on the tower - they must be brought up

        Twin 50 gauge induce from the inside
        1. Cat
          Cat 1 October 2013 11: 56 New
          +1
          Quote: Professor
          Twin 50 gauge induce from the inside

          so I'm not talking about him. You don’t even have to read a single article about the Merkavas - only photographs are enough to understand: to manually guide the groats you will need a mutant tanker with at least two-meter length hands =)
        2. igor67
          igor67 1 October 2013 13: 58 New
          +2
          Oleg is a snapshot from the video that I posted above, in the background there is a tank tower in the context, what kind of tank?
          1. Professor
            1 October 2013 14: 04 New
            +1
            This is definitely not Merkava. wink
            1. igor67
              igor67 1 October 2013 14: 19 New
              +2
              Quote: Professor
              This is definitely not Merkava. wink

              On Mages or Centurion is also not similar, in profile than something from the T line?
              1. Kars
                Kars 1 October 2013 14: 35 New
                +3
                I won’t give a guarantee, but in my opinion Leo 1 is confused by something similar to DZ cubes
                1. igor67
                  igor67 1 October 2013 15: 05 New
                  0
                  [quote = Kars] I will not give guarantees, but in my opinion Leo 1 is confused by something similar to DZ cubes
                  The tower’s profile is very similar, we can say the same, thanks
    2. Professor
      1 October 2013 11: 21 New
      +1
      Quote: Canep
      As a sailor I want to ask you: is the ship in full combat readiness if sailors stagger on its deck? Most probably not. So tankers sticking out of the hatches say that the tank is on the march, and not in full combat readiness.

      You are wrong. During the Yom Kippur War, there were great losses among the tank commanders, since, unlike the Arabs (who fought under the strict guidance of Soviet "advisers"), they did not hide their heads from bullets and shrapnel, but contemplated what was happening around them directly.
      In Merkava, even the seat of a commanding officer type retractable ...
      1. Cat
        Cat 1 October 2013 11: 44 New
        +6
        Quote: Professor
        You are wrong. During the Yom Kippur War, there were great losses among the tank commanders, since, unlike the Arabs (who fought under the strict guidance of Soviet "advisers"), they did not hide their heads from bullets and shrapnel, but contemplated what was happening around them directly.

        As if there is an extra reason to correct the title of the article =)
        About 70 years ago, namely in 1941, one of the advantages of German tanks over Soviet was precisely a good view - while T-34 commanders of early releases could only see the battlefield by leaning out of the hatch. Subsequently, the problem was solved by installing the commander’s turret and better triplexes.
        And now it suddenly turns out that the Israelis are successfully walking on exactly the same rake =) And I don’t believe in my life that they didn’t know about this problem when constructing Merkavas — they didn’t know, because "there is a quarter of our former people. Moreover, many, in theory, fought on the fronts of the Second World War (or did some rear servicemen fled to Israel?)))
        In general, such a disgrace somehow does not fit in with the title of "the very, very tank in the world."
        1. Professor
          1 October 2013 11: 48 New
          +3
          Quote: Cat
          In general, such a disgrace somehow does not fit in with the title of "the very, very tank in the world."

          1. Where in the pack or in my comments does it say that this is the most-most tank?
          2. Even with the most advanced surveillance tools, nothing can replace a head directly tucked out of the hatch.



          Sometimes it happens wink


          PS
          observers from those mentioned in the article



          1. smersh70
            smersh70 1 October 2013 12: 05 New
            +3
            ... stunned .. there is no enemy aviation .. artillery too .... there is no front line ..... they launch a couple of tanks against the village .. rear infantry with mobile phones. and everyone and the rest sit and watch the map and video of the fighting ...... and then our crews say the best !!! and as soon as the last hezbollah showed fierce resistance .. so immediately all the flaws and tanks and the Israeli army came out ......... and resignations went ........
          2. Cat
            Cat 1 October 2013 12: 26 New
            +5
            Quote: Professor
            1. Where in the pack or in my comments does it say that this is the most-most tank?

            where-where ... carefully study the title of the article - that’s exactly there and about it =)
            Quote: Professor
            2. Even with the most advanced surveillance tools, nothing can replace a head directly tucked out of the hatch.

            Let's put it this way: a tank commander is too valuable and a long-trained shot for his head to constantly loom in the area of ​​impact of bullets and shrapnel. Okay, I looked out there, scanned the battlefield with a commander's gaze, and hid back, but judging by the pictures, "sitting on the tower" is the commander's regular position. Disorder.

            PS: Shushpanzer in the second photo - offset! =)
            + for pictures =)))))
            1. Professor
              1 October 2013 13: 42 New
              0
              Quote: Cat
              where-where ... carefully study the title of the article - that’s exactly there and about it

              This is the most modern tank of Israel on the most dangerous border. Where is the inaccuracy?

              Okay, I looked out there, scanned the battlefield with a commander's gaze, and hid back, but judging by the pictures, "sitting on the tower" is the commander's regular position. Disorder.

              What do you understand in sausage scraps? wink
              1. IS-80
                IS-80 1 October 2013 14: 10 New
                0
                Quote: Professor

                What do you understand in sausage scraps? wink


                The boys decided to ride a tank and shoot. laughing