Military Review

In TsAGI them. Zhukovsky created fundamentally new aircraft

73
In TsAGI them. Zhukovsky created fundamentally new aircraftAt the Central Aerohydrodynamic Institute. N.E. Zhukovsky (TsAGI) is developing a fundamentally new aircraft for use in civil aviation.


This was announced at the last in the capital, the sixth All-Russian Conference of Young Scientists and Specialists "The Future of Russian Engineering" TsAGI General Director Boris Aleshin.

“In the near future, civil aviation aircraft will use fundamentally new aerodynamic schemes,” he said. - I have no doubt that by 2025-2030. there will be aircrafts with the “flying wing” scheme. By economic efficiency, they are 50-60 percent will surpass existing aircraft. "

“A fantastic result can be obtained from the introduction of serial production of composite structures for them,” added Aleshin.

But the greatest effect, he said, can be obtained "not only from new technologies, but from the impact on the modernization of the entire industrial industry." “Aircraft manufacturing enterprises will have to reequip in the most serious way, they will need automatic modes of operation,” explained the head of TsAGI.

The engine industry will also change. “There will be no engine in the form of a sort of barrel,” said the head of the institute. - It will all be split and embedded in the wing. This will be a completely different level of aircraft, which will create a new generation of engineers. "

Currently, TsAGI is working on the creation of demonstrators of the new aircraft. According to Aleshin, after 2020, it is already possible to “clearly enough” see the contours of the novelty.

“Conservative aerodynamic schemes will be a thing of the past, we are on the verge of new technical solutions,” Aleshina quotes ITAR-TASS.
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  1. Andrey57
    Andrey57 30 September 2013 09: 29
    +3
    You look, and about the magnificent Bartini planes, with vertical take-off and landing, remember, they would be very welcome in our country.
    1. marder4
      marder4 30 September 2013 09: 59
      +1
      remember that way in 50 years (((
      1. AVV
        AVV 30 September 2013 12: 28
        +1
        All this is good, but it takes a very long time to develop! 10-15 years pass from the project to implementation !!!
    2. Reasonable, 2,3
      Reasonable, 2,3 30 September 2013 10: 04
      +2
      Bartini was an ardent supporter of ekranoletov. Where is the vertical take-off here ?.
    3. vladimirZ
      vladimirZ 30 September 2013 10: 15
      15
      With the current structure of the Government, which "like the devil is running out of incense from the management of the economy," and is engaged only in collecting taxes into the budget, and then cutting it through corruptly, nothing good will happen.
      Until the authorities understand that the state, represented by the Government, should manage the main sectors of the economy, leaving the private sector secondary sectors, nothing will change in Russia. Oligarch-corrupt capital, under the leadership of Medvedev and Putin, will gradually lead Russia to collapse.
      And nothing that scientists and designers think will do.
      First, it is necessary to create a workable industry, purposefully "sharpened" for these grandiose goals, and only then turn the ideas of scientists and designers into metal.
      1. the polar
        the polar 30 September 2013 12: 07
        +2
        Quote: vladimirZ
        .
        First, it is necessary to create a workable industry, purposefully "sharpened" for these grandiose goals, and only then turn the ideas of scientists and designers into metal.

        First you need to change this power to a power that can destroy corruption, eliminate the oligarchy and restore the economy.
        1. Andrey Yuryevich
          Andrey Yuryevich 30 September 2013 12: 21
          +1
          with such "elections" it cannot be changed, and there is no need for a civil war, so ...
      2. Andrey Yuryevich
        Andrey Yuryevich 30 September 2013 12: 20
        +3
        ah well done, plus and subscribe ... hi
        1. Andrey Yuryevich
          Andrey Yuryevich 30 September 2013 12: 53
          +1
          plus this -vladimiruZ
      3. studentmati
        studentmati 1 October 2013 00: 13
        0
        Quote: vladimirZ
        First, it is necessary to create a workable industry, purposefully "sharpened" for these grandiose goals, and only then turn the ideas of scientists and designers into metal.


        A workable industry is created not by politicians and, especially, not by efficient managers. The industry is created by devotees to the marrow of the bones of their Constructor, who have only business at the forefront. Such people are able to convince any government and break through the necessary money to implement their projects. These were: Korolev, Glushko, Yangel, Tupolev, Yakovlev, Sukhoi, you can continue for a long time ...
    4. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 30 September 2013 10: 31
      +2
      Quote: Andrey57
      You look, and about the great Bartini planes

      Pip your tongue! "magnificent", wow ... God forbid, they will be remembered too, we will have another replenishment of the freak show.
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 30 September 2013 11: 50
        +4
        As I thought, there are disadvantages, no comments :)) Bartini for some part of the Internet community is the "sacred car" of Russian aeronautics.
        As a rule, these people have not mastered the performance characteristics of the monsters created by Bartini. And could not compare them with similar performance characteristics of conventional cargo aircraft.
        Otherwise, these people would understand how flawed the concept of an ekranoplan, which is already in its very essence - if an ekranoplan needs a wide wing of a special profile and a flat wide body, then an airplane needs a narrow wing and a narrow body. The result is "not a pig, and not a marine" - a hybrid that, on the cost / efficiency scale, plays to the death of both the ekranoplane and the aircraft.
        But this was not enough for Bartini - he also managed a vertical takeoff into the ekranolet. As a result, VVA-14 "a dream of reason" was born with 16 (!) Engines with a total thrust of 66 400 kgf with a meager load (up to 4-5 tons), which he could transport to a distance of up to 3300 km http://airwar.ru/enc /xplane/vva14.html
        IL-76, if anything, for transporting 48 tons to 5500 km, 4 engines with a total capacity of 48 thousand kgf were enough.
        1. Aryan
          Aryan 30 September 2013 12: 12
          +2
          "The engine-building industry will also change"
          here I as an amateur 100500% not sure
          An example of how many tuyu heaps of cartridges howled was released under the Mosin rifle at the beginning of the century that the designers of another new weapon were forced to design weapons for this munition because they did not throw out the drain of cartridges ...
          I think that the technology for the production of modern aircraft engines will slow down the new aviation.
          and designers of new aircraft have to rely on ready-made engines ...
          1. El13
            El13 30 September 2013 12: 20
            +1
            Quote: Aryan
            here I as an amateur 100500% not sure
            an example of this ...

            very accurate example of this statement! Weapons are ALWAYS created under the cartridge.
          2. Andrey Yuryevich
            Andrey Yuryevich 30 September 2013 12: 26
            +1
            let's wait for the serial PAK FA, we’ll look further, otherwise we promised one thing, and now they are compressing the frames and they will say that it will not be supersonic, and it is invisible only for the blind and so on ...
          3. densh
            densh 30 September 2013 13: 08
            +2
            And how many weapons were fired under the 9mm Parabellym cartridge — a nightmare at all. Poor, poor designers. crying
  2. cosmos111
    cosmos111 30 September 2013 09: 29
    +2
    The article was already about a promising Russian airliner.
    I would like to move from conversations to concrete projection, at one of the design firms. IL, YAK, TU, unless of course they are preserved as design bureaus
    1. Apollo
      Apollo 30 September 2013 09: 32
      +4
      quote- “In the near future, civilian aircraft will use fundamentally new aerodynamic schemes,” he said. - I have no doubt that by 2025-2030. aircraft with the “flying wing” pattern will appear. In terms of economic efficiency, they will surpass existing aircraft by 50-60 percent. ”


      1. svp67
        svp67 30 September 2013 09: 43
        +2
        "Flying wing" for civil aviation ... I think this will be the next step after the appearance of our new "strategist"
        1. Selevc
          Selevc 30 September 2013 12: 31
          +2
          The new is the well-forgotten old - the concepts of the flying wing have probably been at least 70 years old and maybe more - but for some reason this idea has remained the idea ... Also, at one time there were many who were fond of the concept of the flying disk (saucer) - but also like it never came true ...

          To create a fundamentally new engine and glider means to create new production capacities, and maybe entire industries ...
          There will be no engine in the form of a kind of barrel, ”said the head of the institute. “It will all be split and built into the wing.”
          This head of the institute imagines what it is to create, test and introduce a fundamentally new engine? Some designers (the same Tupolev, Lozino-Lozinsky, Lyulka) didn’t have enough life for some engines to see their brainchild in the series !!!

          In general, there are too many pseudo-sensations - it remains only to bring them to life ... :)))
    2. 0255
      0255 30 September 2013 11: 24
      +6
      I would like to move from conversations to concrete projection, at one of the design firms. IL, YAK, TU, unless of course they are preserved as design bureaus

      The design bureau, which is developing the new passenger aircraft, is kept secret so that Poghosyan does not know which design bureau to strangle))) As was the case with MiG 1.44 and Tu-334
  3. AlNick
    AlNick 30 September 2013 09: 32
    +6
    Another "boltologist" in aviation ...
  4. Vitaly Anisimov
    Vitaly Anisimov 30 September 2013 09: 33
    +2
    “Conservative aerodynamic schemes will be a thing of the past, we are on the verge of new technical solutions,” Aleshina quotes ITAR-TASS.
    I have no doubt in our designers ..! But officials in the military-industrial complex, as always, will start pulling tires and scratching their noses ..
    Smart and creative people haven’t been transferred to mother Mother Russia! I’m sure that we will have a powerful breakthrough in aviation and space technology ..!
    1. Max otto
      Max otto 30 September 2013 11: 15
      +2
      "... It will be a completely different level of aircraft, which will be created by a new generation of engineers."

      I am embarrassed to ask, a new generation of engineers where to get something? Those that are now available in design organizations and institutes make me fight in hysteria and cry with laughter. There are sensible ones, but they are so few that it is possible to transfer them to the special fund surname, they will not be enough.
      1. alexng
        alexng 30 September 2013 11: 54
        0
        Do you work somewhere in the aviation design bureau? Just do not refer to a third party. Have you agreed?
        1. Max otto
          Max otto 30 September 2013 14: 50
          0
          I work in the construction industry. And he wrote about the general level of engineers as such. Who goes to engineers now? Anyone who has not passed the competition to other prestigious universities. Or has the situation changed?
      2. The comment was deleted.
  5. Zerstorer
    Zerstorer 30 September 2013 09: 48
    +1
    "Fundamentally new aircraft" ... "Fundamentally new aerodynamic schemes" ... Well, well. As far as I understand, research is now underway on a flying wing with slotted nozzles. Anyone have any information on engine "splitting"?
  6. sashka
    sashka 30 September 2013 09: 56
    13
    So that the design bureau is not closed and so as not to fire people, you can come up with a lot of all sorts of options and as a result get "zilch" .. Now on the equipment that is and which is really needed, but which is not, these conversations do not make sense. it is necessary with vocational schools, machine-tool building, not forgetting about high technologies. To make the machine you need another machine. While all these are words, stupid dreams. Well, private traders do not have so much money to put everything into R&D and production of at least an experimental sample. But the state naturally has no money. The circle is closed ..
    1. Check
      Check 30 September 2013 11: 09
      +4
      let's carry out an action similar to helping the Far East, 50 r sms, collect all of Russia on a new plane))) let the state be ashamed))
      1. Andrey Yuryevich
        Andrey Yuryevich 30 September 2013 12: 31
        +2
        +++++ ready !!! +++++++ good
        1. sashka
          sashka 1 October 2013 13: 03
          0
          In u or (in) Ukraine or (Outskirts) We tried to raise funds for the construction of the coolest naval facilities in the Navy. We ended up (ended) with ordinary verbiage .. We also did not go far .. La-la. Poplars. This is not an argument ..
    2. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 30 September 2013 12: 30
      +1
      besides, I'm even afraid to imagine how much space is occupied in the archives by developments that are much ahead of their time ... it's like in "Indiana Jones" a complete secret hangar probably cannot be disassembled in a century ...
  7. marder4
    marder4 30 September 2013 10: 00
    +1
    in general, the "flying wing" is so-so fundamentally new design - it is a hundred years old at lunchtime ...
    1. alean245
      alean245 30 September 2013 10: 55
      0
      Name at least one serial airliner made according to the scheme of a flying wing.
      1. Wedmak
        Wedmak 30 September 2013 16: 26
        +1
        B-2. A small-scale such airliner. smile
        1. alean245
          alean245 30 September 2013 18: 49
          0
          Yeah. Designed to deliver humanitarian aid to residents of countries in which there is no democracy. laughing
  8. sashka
    sashka 30 September 2013 10: 06
    +1
    Title. In TsAGI them. Zhukovsky created a fundamentally new aircraft
    Perhaps model airplanes, concept cars, but not airplanes .. In the USSR, if the direction was considered promising, they did not spare money. Su-27 is confirmation of this. Now the question is, how much will I have from this .. What nonsense. Perhaps the whole world, or maybe just a fig .. Aviakruzhok skillful hands .. Nothing more, when "tightening the belt" IMHO
    The Chinese showed their "concept car". You can't look without laughing .. But it's not a fact that "this" will be produced. Just a model and nothing more ..
    1. Wedmak
      Wedmak 30 September 2013 10: 33
      +3
      Perhaps aircraft models, concept cars, but not aircraft ..

      Without TsAGI, no plane will take off. This office calculates and blows out models of both our and foreign devices. And not just planes. And to call TsAGI a circle of skillful hands ... how did your tongue turn?
      The Chinese now can do nothing but copy.
      1. sashka
        sashka 30 September 2013 10: 55
        +2
        Quote: Wedmak
        And to call TsAGI a circle of skillful hands ... how did your tongue turn?

        Yes, that's how it turned .. You can't do without state finance .. And the state has no money .. What is the problem. It means they will "cut", but not effective managers. It is logical and correct ... For the state machine .. But it is completely wrong for the State ..
        1. Wedmak
          Wedmak 30 September 2013 12: 05
          +2
          Something I do not understand you ... What will be cut? What kind of state machine?
          Fundamental research has always been done at the expense of the state. Separate geniuses like Tesla, Mendeleev, Popov and others - this is only an exception. And if new studies are being conducted in the field of aerodynamics, then there is an order. Government order. And most likely this order is from the military. In the face of PAK YES. And from there on the civilian will be used.
      2. sashka
        sashka 30 September 2013 11: 02
        0
        Quote: Wedmak
        This office calculates and blows

        Golden words .. AND BLOWS ..
        1. El13
          El13 30 September 2013 12: 30
          -1
          From me "-", I wanted for the rest, but also think about Wedmak ...
      3. sashka
        sashka 1 October 2013 13: 16
        0
        Blowing out. Well said. But to whom? After all, we have no money to pay for "blowing". So everything is "sold" to the left. Yuesei, Israel and China .. Everything has already happened .. It is stupid and not correct.
  9. Wedmak
    Wedmak 30 September 2013 10: 07
    +3
    Here somehow TsAGI is more trusted than China. good I have no doubt about the engineers, they will invent and even put them on the wing, but there will be a fierce struggle with officials. As with aviation managers. Enormous means for introducing the series will be behind the new aircraft.
    Whether profitability and efficiency in the future will be able to defeat the grabbing reflex in the present - that is the question.
    1. Starover_Z
      Starover_Z 30 September 2013 11: 00
      +2
      And the necessary tough leadership and in everything,
      so that he could hit on "hapalkas", then it will go!
  10. APASUS
    APASUS 30 September 2013 10: 13
    +7
    I don’t even doubt the genius of our designers, but I don’t believe in launching a new aircraft in a collapsed aircraft building complex. Such a company as Sukhoi mildly failed the Superjet 100, and who else is able to make civilian aircraft in droves, even if Sukhoi failed?
    1. Wedmak
      Wedmak 30 September 2013 10: 34
      +4
      A company like Sukhoi mildly failed Superjet 100

      Who told you that failed? There are orders, planes are being built, in what form is failure?
      and who else is able to make civilian aircraft in droves

      Tupolevs are now doing good projects. Give them money will be in droves.
      1. sven27
        sven27 30 September 2013 11: 32
        +2
        Quote: Wedmak

        Tupolevs are now doing good projects. Give them money will be in droves.

        only they will not be given money anymore - no, they all gave Poghosyan to the Superjet
      2. APASUS
        APASUS 30 September 2013 11: 41
        +3
        Quote: Wedmak
        Who told you that failed? There are orders, planes are being built, in what form is failure?

        During the year of operation of the SSJ, Aeroflot “identified and eliminated 1088 malfunctions, which led to downtime and losses. At the moment, there is talk about the termination of purchases.
        "Armenian Airlines" protested the quality of the inner lining.
        Yakutia postponed the start of regular transportation on the Sukhoi Superjet 100 (SSJ) from Yakutsk to Khabarovsk. Due to frost. The carrier decided not to risk it.
        Engines under the wing of the notorious “superjet” are only 42 centimeters from the ground (if you count from the bottom edge of the air intakes). So low motors are not installed on any airplane in the world. That is, he will absorb trash and debris from the strip at the regional airports of the Russian Federation: the condition of our local airports is not perfect. It was not ideal in the USSR either. But on the Tu-134 and Tu-154 engines are not located under the wings, in the tail, high from the surface of the airfield. Although in them, it happened, fragments of the coating drifted. SSJ will work like a vacuum cleaner. It is not in vain that in tests they carry him to the lane with a tractor, not allowing him to steer. That something is not sucked into the engines. So it turns out: for this aircraft you have to redo all the regional airports of the Russian Federation, breaking into it billions of dollars. Is it possible?
        Chassis Issues, Unannounced Fuel Consumption
        This is only a small part of the problems!
        1. El13
          El13 30 September 2013 12: 39
          0
          It’s best to buy a car of any brand before discontinuing production and replacing it with a new model, because all the time the engineers release something, eliminate jambs and childhood illnesses, this applies to any brand. The plane is much more complicated, guess? Therefore, there is nothing wrong with fixing 1088 issues. Well, about the height of the engines, if you are interested, you will find the information yourself.
        2. Wedmak
          Wedmak 30 September 2013 12: 46
          +1
          Read the yellow press again ...
          During the year of SSJ's operation, Aeroflot “identified and eliminated 1088 malfunctions, which led to downtime and losses.

          Aeroflot were handed over simplified configuration aircraft, so to say, an installation lot. Their service was not conducted properly. At this moment, these same aircraft are being replaced with those that were ordered by Aeroflot. The boards received from Aeroflot are being converted into a business class (in my opinion, this).
          "Armenian Airlines" protested the quality of the inner lining.

          What, not buffalo? And the word is ... protest. Eklmn, silently send a request for a replacement sheathing is impossible? Under warranty go plane!
          Engines under the wing of the notorious “superjet” are only 42 centimeters from the ground (if you count from the bottom edge of the air intakes).

          Twenty five again. 42 cm, where did you see this? With a standard load, there is more than a meter. That is, the Boeing 737 does not suck anything and it steers itself, and the superjet sucks everything and can not steer? Do you hear yourself?

          Chassis Issues, Unannounced Fuel Consumption

          What problems are there with the chassis is not very clear, but you do not have to lie about fuel - everything is quite stated there.
        3. Russ69
          Russ69 30 September 2013 12: 48
          0
          Quote: APASUS
          During the year of operation of the SSJ, Aeroflot “identified and eliminated 1088 malfunctions, which led to downtime and losses. At the moment, there is talk about the termination of purchases.

          And how many problems the Boeing has -787. Norway generally returned it to the seller and refused further purchases.
          I'm not going to praise SSJ, it is far from an example of aircraft manufacturing. But for any aircraft after the first months of operation, a bunch of imperfections and other things always come out. Which on the next sides are already fixed.
    2. Turtles
      Turtles 30 September 2013 10: 35
      +1
      Is it possible to clarify what the failure is? Nearly 200 pieces ordered.
      1. Corneli
        Corneli 30 September 2013 12: 26
        +1
        Quote: Turtles
        Is it possible to clarify what the failure is? Nearly 200 pieces ordered.

        Do you think this is a lot? Speaking of "plans" and so on:
        "Firm orders for the Russian regional aircraft Superjet-100 will exceed 100 aircraft by the end of the year.(article of September 25, 2007)) This was announced today by Dmitry Matsenov, Senior Vice President for Strategic Development of Sukhoi Civil Aircraft. According to him, to 2011-2012 the year the number of orders will reach 300 machineswhat the Superjet-100 project will do payback.
        "The sales of the aircraft between Russian and foreign companies will be split 50 to 50," he said. "Under the conservative scenario, about 800 aircraft of this type will be sold on the world market, and 400 aircraft will be purchased by airlines from Russia and the CIS countries," Matsenov stressed. "Joining the Italian company Alenia Aeronautics to the project gives reason to believe that the market for the Superjet-100 will increase to 1200 machines," he added.
        According to him, the catalog price for the Superjet-100 in the version for 95 seats is $ 28 million.

        Read on: http://izvestia.ru/news/409562#ixzz2gMVbVMPu
        Sechas the end of 2013, the price of a jet is 35 lyamas (not 28), 200 planes have been ordered, made as much as 21. According to the figures, the number of "ordered" is not enough for payback (the more the price has grown), and the order ... and tomorrow it may not be (take the Iraqi armored personnel carriers as an example)
        P.S. At the same time, in the advertisement of the jet and promoting it to the market, it was just a lot of effort, the T-50 was resting (I don’t remember at all, Schaub with any of the last
        products of auto-auto prom at least in the 10th part were so worn as with a jet)
        1. Russ69
          Russ69 30 September 2013 12: 55
          +1
          Quote: Corneli
          Sechas the end of 2013, the price of the jet is 35 lamas (not 28), 200 aircraft have been ordered, as many as 21 are made. According to the figures, the number of "ordered" ones is not enough for payback

          So, and sales are not finished, what will be further unknown.
          Yes, and the order ... he has a gray hair, and tomorrow it may not be
          Guessing again how contracts will be torn, we will discuss it.
          Now it seems like on the MS-21, there are more orders than on the SSJ ... smile
          1. Corneli
            Corneli 30 September 2013 13: 34
            0
            Quote: Russ69
            Now it seems to be on MS-21, there are more orders than on SSJ ... smile

            Which is more than logical, given that the MC is a niche of 320 airbases and 737 Boeings ... the most popular aircraft on passenger lines (and the most common including those of our air carriers). That's just this plane is not there before 2017 (with the best distribution), it will not appear. And the manner of equipping their planes with Amerian engines, as for me, is somehow not very negative
            1. Russ69
              Russ69 30 September 2013 13: 41
              0
              Quote: Corneli
              That's just this plane is not there before 2017 (with the best distribution), it will not appear.

              Roll out, like in 2015 they promise, but the series is unlikely to be earlier. But contracts are concluded for these terms
              And the manner of equipping their planes with Amerian engines, as for me, is somehow not very

              There will be two engines installed, at the request of the customer. American or Russian.
              1. Corneli
                Corneli 30 September 2013 14: 07
                0
                Quote: Russ69
                There will be two engines installed, at the request of the customer. American or Russian.

                It's okay that the "Russian" one is only being developed and before 2016 it will not be (which in our realities may drag on, as has happened more than once). So "deflated", in 2015, if it rolls out with amerovsky engines. and how it will continue, you can guess for a long time ...
                1. San Vasilich
                  San Vasilich 1 October 2013 22: 34
                  0
                  Is it "just being developed" for you?

                  Work on the creation of the PD-14 engine is proceeding in accordance with the schedule - the head of the division “Engines for Civil Aviation”

                  The application for certification of the PD-14 engine for the prospective medium-range MS-21 airliner will be submitted to the Interstate Aviation Committee by the end of 2013, said Ilya Fedorov, head of the Engines for Civil Aviation Division of the UEC, Managing Director of NPO Saturn.

                  According to him, two experimental engines are being manufactured for certification testing. At the same time, production sites will be determined where serial production of all engine elements will begin.


                  The problem is not with engines, the problem is that the MS-21 is similar to an airplane of the 80s. He is not there yet and he is already out of date. All similar aircraft (A-320, B-737, and even Tu-204) built after the year 2000 have the so-called wingtips - but the MS-21 does not. They are even installed on the B-757, which are discontinued, to improve flight performance.
                  1. San Vasilich
                    San Vasilich 1 October 2013 23: 21
                    0
                    Promising engine PD-14.
                    1. San Vasilich
                      San Vasilich 2 October 2013 00: 42
                      0
                      Something I can’t insert a photo in my post (and delete it).

                      http://www.avid.ru/upload/pages/7699/3.jpg
        2. El13
          El13 30 September 2013 13: 39
          0
          Quote: Corneli
          Sechas the end of 2013, the price of a jet is 35 lyam (not 28)

          Take 28yam and 2007, add 3% to inflation and get 2013 (almost).
          1. Corneli
            Corneli 30 September 2013 14: 10
            0
            Quote: El13
            Take 28yam and 2007, add 3% to inflation and get 2013 (almost).

            The key one in my post was not the current cost of the jet, but the past plans (which were not realized) and the payback of the project (it has not paid off, at least for now)
        3. Turtles
          Turtles 30 September 2013 18: 52
          0
          The question is how many years the project is designed. Despite the fact that the maximum capacity of the plant is 35 aircraft per year, the plant is loaded with orders for 5 and a half years. Or do you think if a project has not brought profit within two years, it is failed?
          1. Corneli
            Corneli 30 September 2013 20: 23
            0
            Quote: Turtles
            The question is how many years the project is designed. Despite the fact that the maximum capacity of the plant is 35 aircraft per year, the plant is loaded with orders for 5 and a half years. Or do you think if a project has not brought profit within two years, it is failed?

            Hmm, if a maximum of 35 aircraft per year, what for announce 300 aircraft by 2012 ?! wassat And the figure of 1200 really looks like a cretan (and there was also 1800 !!!), do you get it for 35 years, were you going to execute contracts only for the construction of new aircraft? Not weak ...
            P.S. I gave you a quote from a "smart" uncle, who was not the last in Su's company, everything is described in some detail there .... so you shouldn't appeal to me that "I believe that if within two years ..." is not worth it ... the SU thought so ...
  11. demeen1
    demeen1 30 September 2013 10: 14
    +2
    Quote: MIKHAN
    “Conservative aerodynamic schemes will be a thing of the past, we are on the verge of new technical solutions,” Aleshina quotes ITAR-TASS.
    I have no doubt in our designers ..! But officials in the military-industrial complex, as always, will start pulling tires and scratching their noses ..
    Smart and creative people haven’t been transferred to mother Mother Russia! I’m sure that we will have a powerful breakthrough in aviation and space technology ..!

    It will be if again the profession of a worker becomes prestigious
    1. Gato
      Gato 30 September 2013 10: 30
      0
      Quote: demeen1
      if again the profession of a worker becomes prestigious

      And when was this profession "worker" prestigious?
      1. Turtles
        Turtles 30 September 2013 10: 40
        +6
        Under Soviet rule, when the worker received more engineer.
        1. Gato
          Gato 30 September 2013 11: 33
          0
          Quote: Turtles
          Soviet power, when the worker received more engineer.

          Which worker? A worker at a construction site, a turner at a sluggish furniture factory and a CNC machine at a pilot production in a mailbox - they are all workers, but the difference between them is huge. In the latter case, yes, there were workers with higher education. Some were even transferred from engineering positions, as the salary was 3-4 times higher.
          In the USSR, it was a conscious policy, an ideology. And now the prestige of the profession is determined by the ratio "income / effort expended." Moreover, the people for some reason strive not so much to increase the numerator as to minimize the denominator. request
        2. 0255
          0255 30 September 2013 11: 48
          -1
          Under Soviet rule, when the worker received more engineer.

          it was moronism! Although many workers of the former Soviet military factories are proud that, having graduated from vocational schools, they received more "rotten intellectuals" with a higher technical education.
          It is astounding that Soviet designers were created, essentially working for the idea. Plus, many Soviet developments sold out to the west.
    2. sashka
      sashka 30 September 2013 10: 31
      +6
      Quote: demeen1
      It will be if again the profession of a worker becomes prestigious

      Three years of study at a vocational school and a year with a MENTOR. Plus one more year to comprehend .. Total 5 (five) years. To begin to understand. It's quite difficult. Our almost entire course was "knocked out" back in Afghanistan .. It's scary and not right .. There are NO frames .. Who at least "understood" something that he produces. The USE and the two-headed ones conduct a course .. It's scary to deal with such thugs ..
      1. Andrey Yuryevich
        Andrey Yuryevich 30 September 2013 12: 47
        +2
        the language does not turn to call you "sasha" but if so, then where to go? So I completely and completely agree with you with a small amendment - vocational schools are practically killed (my wife has been working as a software master for 20 years), the contingent is mainly ZPR, to put it simply, children are "on the handbrake" and such professions as a turner and a milling machine operator imply creative people with non-standard thinking, this is -art, and as a result, the released "specialists" go into life with a certificate and not with a diploma, young people now strive to earn money, not work, go to "managers" and merchiks "and not at all for the machine. hence the sad conclusion: who will be soon work? old people die ...
  12. demel2
    demel2 30 September 2013 10: 15
    +1
    I would like to believe yes something is interfering
    1. Border k
      Border k 30 September 2013 12: 09
      +1
      For example, this: “Speaking at the Sochi Investment Forum, Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev suddenly announced that Russia should abandon the policy of preserving employment at any cost, and invited people to learn how to change not only their place of work, but also their profession, and at the same time their place of residence. "
      More details: http://www.rosbalt.ru/business/2013/09/27/1180984.html?
  13. Vitaly Anisimov
    Vitaly Anisimov 30 September 2013 10: 16
    0
    History is cyclical .. Remember the beginning of the 20th century, plywood flew. 10-20 years spurt, etc. Now perhaps a new era begins in technology .. The main thing in Russia in this race is not to be left behind (or even better to get ahead ..) Maybe I’m too optimistic .. In the morning I feel our Kulibins will give out something that will revolutionize the aircraft industry .. in principle.
    1. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 30 September 2013 12: 57
      +1
      If only the "Kulibins" did not turn out to be "Sikorsky" ...
  14. Bort radist
    Bort radist 30 September 2013 10: 19
    +1
    It’s impossible to catch up now, there is only one way to work in new directions. This is a chance to be the first. It is clear that the projectors for this case (perspectives then). Let's see what happens. Now everything is very fleeting. a little clicked and the next chance may not be.
  15. sashka
    sashka 30 September 2013 10: 42
    +7
    To make the machine you need another machine. And if you look at the statistics, then in general it becomes bad. On the first 1 channel, everything is so bad. "The stars are dancing," PRESIDENTS "in the AGLITSK language are trying to sing" Where the Motherland begins "How to make a sauce from squid and the like, of course everyone knows. Ousters are generally not good for food .. I'm glad .. Life has become more fun but NOT okay then.
    1. Gato
      Gato 30 September 2013 11: 38
      +2
      Quote: Sasha
      I'm glad .. life has become more fun

      Exactly, so much fun happens in a madhouse. Or in a clown brothel.
      1. sashka
        sashka 30 September 2013 11: 57
        +3
        Quote: Sasha
        I'm glad .. life has become more fun

        Exactly, so much fun happens in a madhouse. Or in a brothel for clowns --------------------------------------------- --------------
        Do not pull out .. Just .. well, you can’t ..
    2. military
      military 30 September 2013 14: 08
      +1
      Quote: Sasha
      Life has become more fun but DOES NOT mean GOOD.

      "Life has become easier for us,
      It became more fun ...
      The neck is thinner
      But, on the other hand - longer ... "
      laughing
  16. densh
    densh 30 September 2013 10: 45
    +1
    I’m glad that TsAGI continues to work. I’m only afraid that the results will again fall on the shelf or
    they will be used by foreign "friends and partners".
    1. sashka
      sashka 30 September 2013 12: 02
      +2
      And why suddenly such doubts? You don't believe. WHOM? FOR PRESIDENTS? Sworn on a "constitution"? Clowns. They can still show and perform. The main thing is pay. And sing and dance .. It's about the price.
  17. kim. 230752
    kim. 230752 30 September 2013 10: 46
    +2
    Quote: vladimirZ
    the leadership of Medvedev and Putin will gradually lead Russia to collapse.


    And I think that the collapse has already begun. And there are many confirmations to this.
  18. military
    military 30 September 2013 10: 50
    +5
    “In the near future, civilian aircraft will use fundamentally new aerodynamic schemes,” he said. - I have no doubt that by 2025-2030. aircraft with the “flying wing” pattern will appear.

    ... and on Mars apple trees will bloom ... lol
    According to Alyoshin, after 2020 it is already possible to "quite clearly" see the contours of new items.

    this, if by that time the contours of TsAGI itself would be preserved ... and it would not be privatized, like a number of other FSUEs ...
  19. Gato
    Gato 30 September 2013 10: 54
    +2
    In the near future, civilian aircraft will use fundamentally new aerodynamic schemes

    What kind of schemes can be fundamentally new? As far as I know, all the famous ones have ever been used. It can only be about using new technologies in old circuits.
  20. Pashhenko Nikolay
    Pashhenko Nikolay 30 September 2013 11: 04
    +2
    It will be a completely different level of aircraft, which will be created by a new generation of engineers. ”Interestingly, where will this new generation of engineers come from? Recently, often our talented guys become applicants for Nobel Prizes working behind a hill and not with us.
    1. military
      military 30 September 2013 11: 06
      +2
      Quote: Pashhenko Nikolay
      It will be a completely different level of aircraft, which will be created by a new generation of engineers. "

      and sawing loot is a new generation of managers ... laughing
  21. vladsolo56
    vladsolo56 30 September 2013 11: 04
    +2
    In theory, of course, we still have a lot of reserves, but in technology everything is ruined, you have to sell our inventions to the west, or put it in the archive. Aircraft industry will not soon be reborn in Russia. Of course, several copies can still be built, but mass production, the question?
    1. sashka
      sashka 1 October 2013 13: 23
      0
      this is not a question for "esaul" and for Grishka, his fellow tribesman .. We will sell everything .. Great damn ..
  22. Hort
    Hort 30 September 2013 11: 14
    +2
    again, many beautiful words ... By 2025 they will appear ... They balins appeared in the 80s, which is why only one thermoplane and Equip stand ... And only in these two projects are there so many that not only until 2025, but up to 2050 is enough to develop and improve. State interest should only be to this
  23. USNik
    USNik 30 September 2013 11: 18
    +2
    “There will be no engine in the form of a kind of barrel,” said the head of the institute. “It will all be split and built into the wing.”
    Something comrade general director pours, because with all the desire, the compressor blades cannot be made square or rectangular belay. Or will the engine be non-jet? Next, with a statement about composites
    “A fantastic result can be obtained from the introduction of mass production of composite structures for them”
    real designers and military disagree, here is an excerpt from an interview with director Ilyushin:
    - The new scheme is not everything. New materials are also needed. What about them?

    - I am not a supporter of running after the Americans and “baking” fully composite machines. We must first conduct research and understand how the composite-metal combination behaves, how this design works, and what are the repair options in the field. The plane lands on an unprepared airfield, on the ground. Therefore, the military now says: no composites are needed. This is just a pragmatic approach.
    http://www.vedomosti.ru/library/news/16781971/menya-pugat-ne-nuzhno-ya-puganyj-v
    iktor-livanov-gendirektor
  24. silver_roman
    silver_roman 30 September 2013 12: 44
    0
    This is all clearly correct, because There is a lot of talk about the revival of our domestic civil aviation, but little is done for this. And such projects as the SSJ-100 or MS-1 will not greatly change the balance of power. We need innovations, we need to offer the market such models that could save money (reducing fuel consumption, increasing lift and reducing the mass of aircraft - as a result, increasing payload), polluting the atmosphere with less emissions, flying over longer distances. I am sure all this is possible. but again, everything will be hindered by conservatives, who have huge profits in the production of aviation kerosene, maintenance of old and tested aircraft with typical airframe designs, assembly designs and components. We need healthy competition, but unfortunately everything goes exactly the opposite. Now it is no longer surprising when a car costs less than its MOT in a couple of years. Everything is done with the expectation of steaming the buyer at a low price, and then taking parts, fuel, oil, etc. to production. Everything is designed not to ride as long as possible, but to break as often as possible.
    1. Hort
      Hort 30 September 2013 13: 18
      0
      MS-21 Do you mean? MS-1 - it was such a tank)

      That's the way about maintenance: almost all operators of Sukhoi-100 quietly swear at the quality of after-sales maintenance. This despite the fact that we have after-sales service - a weak spot since the Soviet era (but before, the approach was different to civil aviation).
      As for innovations, then, I repeat, we need the direct interest of the state and the corresponding influence on its part. Which has not yet been observed. On the contrary, at first we set ourselves a barrier on state financing of aviation developments in the form of WTO rules, and now we are frantically looking for ways to bypass them (the regional aviation development program is the same). To the logical question "why was it done?" Of course there will be no answer. As well as the punishment of those guilty for joining the WTO without proper preparation of industries
  25. gunnerminer
    gunnerminer 30 September 2013 13: 52
    +1
    Aircraft are not created in TsAGI. They are being designed. Before creation, as before the moon on the donkey.
  26. Betahon
    Betahon 30 September 2013 14: 14
    0
    Lovely!
    If only someone would not have pulled ahead of time from behind a hillock!
    Such things should be kept secret for the time being and a strict counter-intelligence regime should be established behind the topic and the initiators!
  27. San Vasilich
    San Vasilich 1 October 2013 10: 41
    +1
    entire industrial industry


    Well, it's generally synonyms, the same nonsense as "service". Despite the fact that in English "service" is a service, a service, and a service.

    In the near future, civilian aircraft will use fundamentally new aerodynamic schemes, ”he said. - I have no doubt that by 2025-2030. there will be aircraft with the scheme "flying wing ..

    There will be no engine in the form of a kind of barrel, ”said the head of the institute. “It will all be split and built into the wing.”


    Again this science fiction. No airline company in the world will agree to purchase a flying wing with integrated engines. They all need a workhorse, not a flying lab. It is necessary that any African with 3 classes of education can serve their aircraft. How can a quick engine change be ensured if it is integrated in an airplane glider? How to ensure the reliability of these very engines if any gull can damage them during take-off or landing, and after that there will be a fire (explosion) and possible destruction of equipment near this engine. There is no insulation from the fire, and everything around will be made of materials that burn very well.