"Armata": reflections in anticipation of an open show

The exposition of the recent exhibition Russian Arms Expo-2013 was divided into two parts. All interested persons could familiarize themselves with a large number of samples and developments, and a number of promising projects were shown only to a limited number of persons with relevant permissions. What exactly was shown in the closed part of the exposition was not announced. Prime Minister D. Medvedev said that several new developments of the domestic defense industry were shown behind closed doors, which can take part in the Victory Parade already in 2015 year. In the meantime, information about this part of the exhibition can only be presumptive.

A few months before the exhibition, an active discussion began on the possible display of various new products. In particular, information appeared about the planned demonstration of the prototype. tank based on the heavy armored tracked platform Armata. Later it became known that this car will be shown at RAE-2013, but only representatives of the defense industry, the country's leadership and the Ministry of Defense will get access to it. The general public, in turn, will be forced to wait until permission to demonstrate the sample appears.

Heavy tracked platform "Armata" is one of the most interesting and yet mysterious projects of recent times. The development of the project began approximately in 2009-2010 years, but the details about the progress of work and technical features are still classified, and the amount of information available is small and often information contradicts each other. In this regard, there are various versions designed to answer existing questions. It is safe to say that a large part of the existing assumptions about the Armata platform will not be confirmed in the end. Nevertheless, in recent times a lot of new information has appeared that can help compile a plausible version of the status and details of the project.

20 August in Moscow, the exhibition "Day of the Ministry of Defense Innovation." At one of the event booths, in the closed part of the exhibition, mock-ups of equipment based on the Armata platform were shown. For some reason, for several hours after the end of the exhibition, photographs of these models were available to anyone. As follows from the available images, the Armata platform can become the basis not only for the tank. Probably in the near future there will be a tank bridge construction, a heavy flamethrower system and a minelayer on a single chassis. In addition, the photographs from one of last year’s events featured a model of some self-propelled artillery. It should also be noted that the existing models of machines based on the "Armata" can talk about the creation of a transport-loading machine for a heavy flamethrower system, an armored repair and recovery vehicle, and other types of equipment needed by the troops. It was previously stated that together with the tank in the early stages of the project a heavy infantry fighting vehicle unified with it would be developed.

Attempts to establish the details of the Armata project, according to information available in open sources, constantly face not only a shortage of information, but also problems of a different nature. So, when comparing the model of ACS with the models shown on the “Day of Innovations”, it is easy to see that the layouts have a number of serious differences. The interpretation of this fact turns into a separate complex task. It is possible to explain a different type of layouts both at different stages of the project, in accordance with which they were made, and by attempts of the developer organization and the Ministry of Defense to throw in disinformation. If the second version turns out to be correct, then the appearance of the tank and other vehicles based on the Armata platform may differ significantly from how it was presented on the basis of previously available information.

Bearing in mind the problems with the amount and reliability of information, we will try to establish the approximate appearance of an armored platform, which in the near future will become the basis for several types of combat vehicles. It is already known that the tank "Armata" has an unusual layout for the domestic armored vehicles of this class. First of all, it is necessary to note the original solution with a habitable volume, made in the form of an armored capsule. It will accommodate the entire crew of three, who with the help of a large number of instruments and controls will be able to monitor the environment and control various systems of the combat vehicle.

The crew capsule will be placed in front of the armored hull, behind the frontal part, providing a high level of protection. Due to this arrangement, the defeat of the tank from the front course corners is unlikely to lead to the death of the crew. In addition, tankers will be isolated from fuel and ammunition, which will increase their chances of survival. One of the most interesting questions in the light of the survivability of a combat vehicle is the location of the engine compartment (MTO).

The use of developments on the classic layout of the tank with the placement of logistics in the stern will not allow competently dispose of the internal hull volumes for the location of the troop compartment in the form of an infantry fighting vehicle. Thus, the Armata platform probably has an engine and transmission in front of the hull. This solution has both pros and cons. The first can be attributed to an increased level of crew protection, to the second - the loss of mobility in the event of a successful enemy attack. At the front MTO location, the engine protects the crew at the cost of its own performance, which is why anti-tank ammunition with sufficient characteristics, without harming the crew, can immobilize the tank and make it an easy target.

Disputes about the possible placement of MTO do not subside so far. Stop them can only publish official data on the project. Moreover, one cannot rule out such a scenario, in which disputes will not stop, but will turn into a new plane. For example, the public interested in military technology can start a discussion of the appropriateness of the applied solution.

There is information about the engine model intended for use in the Armata platform. This will be one of the modifications of the X-shaped diesel engine A-85 with power up to 1500-1800 HP. According to some sources, the power plant of the platform will allow the creation of combat vehicles weighing up to 65 tons with mobility at the level of modern domestic main tanks.

A-85-3 (sometimes referred to as 2А12-3, 12ЧНХNUMX / 15 or 16Н12)

Chassis prospective armored vehicles is one of the strangest and most ambiguous aspects of the entire project. There is no exact information even about the number of road wheels. According to the version common in the past, the Armata should have six rollers each on board. In the future, there was information about the elongated body and eight-rolling chassis. Finally, the models shown on the Innovation Day of the Ministry of Defense were equipped with seven rollers on board. Exact information about the type of suspension is not available.

Placing the entire crew of a combat vehicle inside a single volume with a high level of protection directly speaks about some other layout features. So, it is already known that the fighting compartment of the tank on the basis of the Armat platform will be made uninhabitable. This means that all operations related to the preparation for the shot will be carried out automatically. For this loading mechanisms, guidance, etc. must be done in such a way that they can independently carry out the commands of the crew located in the armored capsule. The main weapons tank "Armata" can become a smooth-bore gun 2А82 caliber 125 millimeters. According to its characteristics, this gun surpasses the latest modifications of the 2А46 launcher and is capable of using the entire range of its ammunition. Often, it is suggested that the promising tank will increase its firepower at the expense of the 152-mm 2-83 gun. A similar way of development of the modern main tank was tested during the 195 Object project and showed its advantages.

Amount of ammunition perspective tank depends on the size of the shots and the available volume of the fighting compartment. Thus, the capacity of the automatic loader can be estimated in 30-45 separate-sleeve ammunition caliber 125 or 152 millimeter.

Another consequence of the original layout of the tank is the need to create a new fire control system (SLA), capable of ensuring the combat operation of the tank with an uninhabited fighting compartment. It is assumed that the promising tank will receive a modern SLA, which will use the best practices on the latest projects in this area. In addition, it cannot be excluded that the Armata tank will receive a new information and control system that will monitor the operation and health of various components and assemblies, as well as interact with the SLA and communication systems. Currently, the most advanced of the domestic fire control systems is considered to be the Kalina complex, designed for the T-90CM tank. Probably, the developments in this MSA will be applied in the relevant parts of the Armata project.

Placing the crew in a single armored capsule may indicate that a tank based on the Armata platform will receive a developed system for monitoring the environment, equipped with a large number of video cameras. The basis of the sighting system of the tank will be multi-channel sights that can work at any time of the day and in any weather conditions. Also it is worth expecting that the tank "Armata" will receive a panoramic commanding sight, which is considered an essential component of the electronic equipment of a modern tank.

As you can see, at the present time it is possible to form a fairly plausible version of the appearance of a promising main tank based on the Armata heavy tracked platform. However, this is only an assumption based on fragmentary information and therefore the actual features of the project may - or even should - be different from it. The general informational situation around the project, including the possible distribution of misinformation, only contributes to this. You can check these or other guesses in only one way: compare them with a real combat vehicle. Here again the problem of secrecy arises. The first prototype of the Armata tank may have been shown in the closed part of the exposition of the exhibition Russian Arms Expo-2013, access to which was obtained only by the leaders of the country and the military department. The timing of the open demonstration of the new tank was not reported to everyone.

It is unlikely that a tank based on the Armat platform will be shown to the general public by the end of this year. Most likely, the "premiere" of a promising combat vehicle will take place only in the next 2014 year as part of an event. By that time, the first prototype of the tank should begin testing. According to the latest information on this, the delivery of the first production tanks "Armata" will begin in 2015 year. From this we can conclude about further work within the project. Probably, the Ministry of Defense and the organization-developer (Ural Design Bureau of Heavy Machinery - UKBTM) intend to test and fine-tune the new machine as soon as possible, and then launch its mass production.

Thus, in the first months of 2014, the premiere open demonstration of a new tank and materials about other vehicles based on the Armata heavy platform can take place. Then the customer and the executor of the project can publish information about the name of the promising machine. While there is no information on the index, which will receive the tank and other armored vehicles. Some time ago, information appeared in foreign media, according to which the equipment based on the Armata platform has the working names “148 Object”, “149 Object” and “152 Object”. There is still no official confirmation or denial of this information. The same situation is observed with troop indices: different sources state that the prospective tank will be called T-14 (by the year of its adoption), T-99 (by analogy with previous tanks), etc.

All assumptions about the new tracked platform can be confirmed or refuted only by official information. Hopefully, it remains to wait a bit and in the coming months, the Ministry of Defense and UKBTM will publish the first information about promising armored vehicles on the basis of a single tracked platform.

On the materials of the sites:
http://ria.ru/
http://interfax.ru/
http://vz.ru/
http://gurkhan.blogspot.hu/
http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-519.html

Comments

[Civil]

Why these reflections, here comes into service, there it will be seen what and how

[svp67]

Quote: Civil

Why these reflections, here comes into service, there it will be seen what and how

I support, all these fortune-telling on the "coffee grounds" are already fed up. There may be many options for "Armata", but "Armata" will be one and when it is shown, then it will be possible to evaluate it ... And the fact that this is not happening makes you think about a lot.

[PROXOR]

But still, something is okay:

Quote: svp67

There is information about the engine model intended for use in the Armata platform. This will be one of the modifications of the A-85 X-shaped diesel engine with a capacity of up to 1500-1800 hp.

Non-acid engine. Question about the weight of the new tank. We also go on a campaign along the path of creating heavy machines.

[Hudo]

Quote: PROXOR

Non-acid engine.

The X-shaped engine is a type of star-shaped ICE, with all its shortcomings. A design flaw of a star engine, for example, is the possibility of oil flowing into the lower cylinders while stationary, and therefore, before starting the engine, make sure that there is no oil in the lower cylinders. Starting the engine in the presence of oil in the lower cylinders leads to water hammer and breakage of the crank mechanism.
The operation of such an engine in the troops will require a higher level of training of MVs and remotors.

[PROXOR]

Quote: Hudo

The X-shaped engine is a type of star-shaped ICE, with all its shortcomings. A design flaw of a star engine, for example, is the possibility of oil flowing into the lower cylinders while stationary, and therefore, before starting the engine, make sure that there is no oil in the lower cylinders. Starting the engine in the presence of oil in the lower cylinders leads to water hammer and breakage of the crank mechanism. The operation of such an engine in the troops will require a higher level of training of MVs and remotors.

Well, what for the operation. and even more so for military operations, you need a professional crew is not in doubt.
About the X-shaped engine. I think the problem is being solved. Let me remind you that star engines were used in aviation as early as the 1st World War. The same engines that Douglas DC3 used on the Sherman tanks and tank destroyers M18 Hellcat. It is not necessary to make a single scroll before starting there.

PySy: There is another engine in which oil can leak during prolonged parking. An engine with counter pistons, mounted on a T-64 tank. As we know, there were no problems with this engine by the end of the production of the tank.

[Alekseev]

Quote: PROXOR

There is another engine in which oil can leak during prolonged parking. An engine with counter pistons, mounted on a T-64 tank.

Where does this oil leak into the engine?
Moreover, with a "long stay"
Do not confuse horseradish with your finger and come up with problems that are not.
And real constructive and technological problems are enough.
And about an excess of oil in the 5TDF diesel crankcase, they can report the following: it (oil) appears in the crankcase as a result of unsuccessful attempts (which is not uncommon for 5TDF, 6TD, especially if it is cold, the battery is a little tired and there is little air) to start the engine. MZN pumps it there, but there is no effective pumping by a gear oil pump into the oil tank, because The engine will not start. After several attempts, it is possible to pump the crankcase so that it will not be possible to complete the piston stroke and, accordingly, crank the crankshaft.
Then the m / in climbs under the bottom, opens the hatch and drains the oil through a special fitting.
And backwaters in a new way ...

[Andriuha077]

"in the presence of oil in the lower cylinders leads to a water hammer"

In ancient times, for this, before starting, they screwed the screw, or manually turned the plugs in the nozzles and drained. Of course, on all more or less modern automated for a long time.

[svp67]

Quote: PROXOR

Non-acid engine. Question about the weight of the new tank. We also go on a campaign along the path of creating heavy machines.

Good afternoon. Well, there’s nowhere to go, this is a necessary measure, but sooner or later an easy car will be created, because we need to protect a large territory, and different equipment is needed ...

[PROXOR]

Quote: svp67

Good afternoon. Well, there’s nowhere to go, this is a necessary measure, but sooner or later an easy car will be created, because we need to protect a large territory, and different equipment is needed ...

Some kind of nonsense. In the 50s, we abandoned two branches of tanks in favor of a single one. As a result, the T-64 appeared in the 64th. Why divide again. Most likely they will not do anything like that. I will close the light category with the new BMP of the project "Kurganets".

[vladkavkaz]

Tank Support (BMPT) “Terminator-2” will be created in the future on the “Almaty” platform. According to RIA Novosti, Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin said in an interview with Russia-24 television channel.

According to him, the world premiere of BMPT-72 ("Terminator-2") is taking place at an exhibition in Nizhny Tagil.

D. Rogozin noted that for the first time the idea of ​​creating a BMPT was born on the basis of experience in conducting military operations in the North Caucasus, in particular, on the basis of the experience of the storming of Grozny, when Chechen separatists burned a lot of heavy armored vehicles. “Then the idea of ​​creating a BMPT arose, which could neutralize the threat to the actions of tanks in the city. We will continue to improve it (the car), ”added the Deputy Prime Minister of the Russian Federation.

REFERENCE

BMPT-72 is a revolutionary modernization of the world famous tank Uralvagonzavod T-72. When designing the BMPT-72, the experience of creating and using the BMPT, which for its firepower was called the "Terminator", was taken into account.

Like the basic model, Terminator-2 is able to effectively solve the tasks of fire support of tanks and infantry in all types of combat operations, in complex geographical areas, at any time of the day, against any enemy. Differences from the previous model: improved fire control system and security of the combat module of the tower.

The main advantage of the BMPT-72 is that, created on the "seventy-two" platform, it gives a unique opportunity to all the countries of the world that are armed with the most massive T-72 tank of the world, to quickly and cost-effectively strengthen the armored component of the armies.
Based on this, what do we have?
A set of different purpose machines, but capable of operating in a single system, the gain is impressive.
Another question is when all this is in metal, in the states and in the troops.

[PROXOR]

Quote: vladkavkaz

According to him, the world premiere of BMPT-72 ("Terminator-2") is taking place at an exhibition in Nizhny Tagil.

And where then is the contract for the purchase of these machines? Kazakhstan already bought it. And here again they are waiting for a rooster which ... will bite.

[Armata]

Quote: PROXOR

Kazakhstan already bought it.

Kazakhstan bought on the T90 platform.

[IS-80]

Quote: vladkavkaz

The main advantage of the BMPT-72 is that, created on the "seventy-two" platform, it gives a unique opportunity to all the countries of the world that are armed with the most massive T-72 tank of the world, to quickly and cost-effectively strengthen the armored component of the armies.
Based on this, what do we have?
A set of different purpose machines, but capable of operating in a single system, the gain is impressive.
Another question is when all this is in metal, in the states and in the troops.

That's when they bring to mind the BMPT, then we can talk about something.
They’ll put a normal set of weapons and put them in normally, leave the optimal number of crews, make normal body armor, active and dynamic protection, where necessary, a normal SLA with maximum visibility of the entire hemisphere and create a normal theory of its use in the army.

[vladkavkaz]

IS-80
My friend, how can you check the car, if not, no experienced drills or training staff?
Few conflicts in which to break in the car?
A normal body armor - what do you mean, something like a tank for armoring? And why? Is this machine designed to act in front of the tanks?
MSA-agree, we need the latest.
The optimal set of weapons, and what exactly do you have under this, what1 set and what should be the name?
Let's say ATGM-4 pieces, obviously not enough, especially in battle to change when leaving the car ... problematic, Guns-30mm, maybe more than-45-57mm caliber.
But after all, all this must be checked on the realities, and not in party meetings and advertising, right?
But this is a great problem .....

[IS-80]

Quote: vladkavkaz

A normal body armor - what do you mean, something like a tank for armoring? And why? Is this machine designed to act in front of the tanks?

Well, BMPT is designed for combat in the battle formations of tanks.

Quote: vladkavkaz

The optimal set of weapons, and what exactly do you have under this, what1 set and what should be the name?

But this is a big question. In my opinion, there should definitely be a 45 mm gun and 4 rockets. But what else is a very interesting question.

Quote: vladkavkaz

Let's say ATGM-4 pieces, obviously not enough, especially in battle to change when leaving the car ... problematic

The main goal of the BMPT is to combat infantry, lightly armored vehicles and helicopters. Why make it MLRS?

Quote: vladkavkaz

But after all, all this must be checked on the realities, and not in party meetings and advertising, right?
But this is a great problem ...

First you need to think carefully and analyze everything. And then here a whole bunch of specialists and not a very whole MO have no clear idea of ​​what, where, how and why, and you are going to check.

[Prosha]

The main goal of the BMPT is to combat infantry, lightly armored vehicles and helicopters. Why make it MLRS?

Sorry, maybe we have new trends, but for this there are infantry units on the BMP. I think that the BMP-3 can very well cope with this kind of tasks and there is no need to fence in the garden, if you want to replace tanks with BMPT, then you should say and think on this issue with the involvement of various experts and practitioners with combat experience. Sinful, initially, too, was delighted with such a cute machine, and then began to think ... why? IMHO except for spraying and so not very large funds for rearmament, more to nothing (hidden budget cut)

[sscha]

There is an opinion, and it has the right to live, that:
1. T-90 - for reasons, is considered by our "defense industry" as a vehicle for export, India, Peru, Azerbaijan. Kazakhstan, etc. Well, for developments and replenishment of the treasury. By the way -Terminator-2 - in this line, due to the prevalence in the world of its base - T-72.
2. Modifications of the T-72 - a temporary measure to maintain the combat effectiveness of the Ground Forces will be taken into service as a necessary measure.
3. "Armata", "Kurganets", "Boomerang" - the main platforms, on the basis of which, in turn, BMPO-T- (heavy), BMPO-S (medium), BMPO-K (wheeled) will be developed. BMPO - fire support combat vehicle). Accordingly, artillery systems based on platforms with their own gradation of caliber, performance characteristics, etc. and other vehicles (support, engineering, reconnaissance, infantry, etc.)

[gunnerminer]

BMPT-72 is a revolutionary modernization of the world famous tank Uralvagonzavod T-72.





How can modernization be revolutionary? Another Rogozin campaign like hypersonic bombers or Serbian battalions in the Russian army.

[Hort]

so the division is, in fact, not in the form of evolution of tank building, but interrupted by the decision of Khrushchev. Therefore, it was necessary to refine the medium tanks to the level of MBT, figuratively speaking.
So far, the crowns of TT's creations are, perhaps, the IS-7, T-10M and "Object 279".
True, only the T-10M was serial. It seems that even somewhere in the Far East they are on conservation in the size of a regiment

[jasper]

wheeled self-propelled guns, no?

[Igor39]

There is an engine. Where is "Armata"?

[alone]

Quote: Igor39

There is an engine. Where is "Armata"?

Give everything to the table at once)))

[Donvel]

Heavy tanks have proven themselves better than the AMX-13 or Leopard-1, so this is the right way.

[mirag2]

The engine for the usual magpie.

[Rustam]

These drawings are left these fortunetelling - it is clear that the prototypes are presented, the main thing is they are presented and this is not a myth and not fiction

add a couple of years to break-in, fine-tuning and testing - the first photos will appear then we'll talk

In the meantime, you can talk about the samples presented - there were a lot of interesting things

[bask]

Quote: Rustam

while you can talk about the presented samples - there were a lot of interesting things

What, for example?
SPG ,, Coalition ,, single-barrel and wheeled chassis. And perhaps everything. Photo ,,, Coalition ,, someone lay out, please !!!!
And most importantly, the contracts for the supply of the Russian army, BMPT-2, self-propelled guns, Msta-S, Coalition, T-90MS BMP-3M, SU, Octopus-SD, were not signed with the Ministry of Defense.
The army until at least 16 years old, without modern armored vehicles and artillery remained ....
Mo Shoigu did not visit the military exhibition, what is not interested in the Russian military-industrial complex and its products? For whom was the exhibition held, for Hindus, Negroes, Arabs?

[Rustam]

bask for example?
Self-propelled guns, coalition, single-barrel and wheeled chassis

And was it) like no, I said earlier that with the Kamazovsky chassis this is unreal
Good modernization of the same T-72, armored Urals, French control systems and optics, etc.

The army itself doesn’t want to order advanced samples such as modernized Tigers with DUMV, BMP 3m, T-90MS and so on - they all takethen why the hell can you take

an example for the same Tigers who are going with class 3 - they are told to order with class 5 or 6 -they are not Do you need air conditioning? -soldiers inappropriately
, order a step to make it easier to climb-it's too much
Then maybe mine seats with head restraints? and why?put the usual and loopholes in the windows? -don't let the transom open completely and on top arrow protection is needed? -Lord why do we have Duncans Maclauts not but you give us smoke grenades -Sometimes it seems that in MO alone are dumb

and there was something to see

photo (clickable) TIGER + Nekster -ARX 20 thing, but I think in our army this kind of good is not seen

[bask]

Thanks for the info ... Rustam.
About the self-propelled guns ,, Coalition ,, posted, because Makhanik, said that she was at the exhibition. And even shot once.

Quote: Rustam

an example for the same Tigers who go with the 3rd class - they are told to order with the 5th or 6th class of protection - they don’t, do they need air conditioning? - soldiers don’t have to sweat

All this is sad. Again gentlemen from the Moscow Region, they are not going to save the lives of soldiers ...
And in an armored car, as in weapons, there are no trifles. And the footboard should be (yes even not slippery) comfortable mine seats, loopholes for firing from a car, a thermal imager, remote-controlled DBM weapons.
As soon as we pull out the SONS GOS .. CHINUSH, from abroad and force to serve in the Russian army, everything you write about will be procured. Moreover, in the maximum configuration ....
And like the bourgeois BAE Systems. The armored car RG-35, a multi-purpose vehicle, with reinforced mine and ballistic protection at the level of MCI.

[Rustam]

bask (5)
Thanks for the info ... Rustam.
About the SPG ,, Coalition ,, posted, because Makhanik

Didn’t you see Kamaz on the chassis, maybe in a closed show? And can it be that KamAZ somehow presented any novelties that we discussed in the summer nothing grandiose, can there be an exposition at Polytech 13?

but about the fact that the Russian Defense Ministry itself takes the minimum, it’s not only for the Tigers, but also for tanks and infantry fighting vehicles

The same infa that was on a possible order for the BMP-3-so they also plan everything there at a minimum, no French sight, no kondeya, no extra protection on the sides, no curtains

Of course, I understand that everyone is waiting for Almaty, Kurganets and Boomer, but if you take it, take it so that it is for people

[bask]

Quote: Rustam

Of course, I understand that everyone is waiting for Almaty, Kurganets and Boomer, but if you take it, take it so that it is for people

Before the series ,, Armata ,, Kurganets ,, Boomerang ,, still need to survive.
And most importantly, the PRICE of these products will be (as I think) 2-3-times more expensive, similar to the T-90, BMP-3, BTR-80.
And how much then will the MO buy new armored vehicles?
When in the Defense Ministry, soldiers will become primarily people, everything will change. As an example, the army of the Tsakhal. Everyone serves from the son of a minister to a simple hard worker.
Now, this is patriotism in action !!!!
PS: KAMAZ did not present its products at the exhibition, for political reasons. Maybe I'm wrong.

[Armata]

Quote: bask

Before ,, Armata ,, Kurgan ,, Boomerang ,, still need to survive.
And most importantly, the PRICE of these products will be (as I think) 2-3-times more expensive, similar to the T-90, BMP-3, BTR-80.
And how much then will the MO buy new armored vehicles?
When in the Defense Ministry, soldiers will become primarily people, everything will change. As an example, the army of the Tsakhal. Everyone serves from the son of a minister to a simple hard worker.
Now, this is patriotism in action !!!!

Hi comrad. They have a country like half of our region, and we have a large country and more workers. So no one will notice the absence of sons of ministers and deputies.

[bask]

Quote: Mechanic

no one will notice the absence of sons of ministers and deputies

Good evening Eugene.
They will send to serve in Dagestan or Ingushetia, they will immediately notice.

[Armata]

Quote: bask

They will send to serve in Dagestan or Ingushetia, they will immediately notice.

Naive. You got a lot of bullets from the sons of ministers?

[bask]

Quote: Mechanic

th. You got a lot of bullets from the sons of ministers?

Not one.
He operated, only who got into an accident (small bureaucrats), but even those already had fingers in a fan.

[Armata]

Quote: bask

Not one.
He operated, only who got into an accident (small bureaucrats), but even those already had fingers in a fan.

They do not bend in another way, or rather they do not bend, the phalanges grew so without joints.

[bask]

Quote: Mechanic

tsya, or rather do not unbend, the phalanges grew so without joints.

A head without brains.
One soap, wherever, what to stick.
Zhenya on the topic, all the same self-propelled guns, "Kaolitsiya," on the tracked or wheeled chassis at the exhibition was. If this is not a secret infa ....

[Armata]

It was. And even banged 1 times.

[bask]

Quote: Mechanic

It was. And even banged 1 ra

Got it, infa ... classified. Thanks

[alexpro66]

What secret?? The day before yesterday, the mechanic wrote

It's not a secret. I can post it, but only on Monday. I do not have a program with a camera on my beech.

What has changed in two days ?? Or was it only the mechanic who managed to see and flip the Coalition ?? Yes, and see how she fumbled !!
And on what chassis is it a Mechanic ?? If the gusli MTO still spread ?? Here is a prototype of the Coalition-SV AT 195 chassis where were you going to put the booths back ?? There aren’t so many differences with the Coalition. IT HAS A LITTLE-SOMETHING SHORT

[Armata]

Whence such knowledge?

[alexpro66]

Not from you for sure ..

[Armata]

Quote: alexpro66

Not from you for sure ..

Well, that’s what I understand. Chezh as a Jew ?. You were asked a specific question.

[alexpro66]

You too .. Where is the photo ??))

[Armata]

Quote: alexpro66

You too .. Where is the photo ??))

I repeat for the gifted. So far they do not give to lay out what is for official use. I hoped that I could, but not yet.

[alexpro66]

Well, yes! Stupid talk about secrecy began)))) You just couldn’t see anything and even more so click off -that and the whole story ..

[alexpro66]

Have you seen or only heard? If you have heard an excellent rumor, you can distinguish Msta’s thump from the Coalition !! Respect!)))

[Rustam]

bask (5)
When in the MO, the soldiers will become primarily people, everything will change

If they will, I will again be for delivery to the army Ivek in a larger number

we’ll continue about the sad thing — in VV, the same picture is mainly taken by the armored Urals in the booth, they order wooden benches — this is normal, let the fighter beat off everything before going out so that he doesn’t sleep — I don’t know, some of the military-industrial complex also have wooden benches and waking up

for the same armored vehicles for a long time offer additional armor panels in the same 82a - no one needs

my position is this and always has been, if you take new equipment you need to take it to the maximum so that people are comfortable and comfortable and additionally safe

The position of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation on the Tigers with Grade 3 — they go for special forces and they don’t need more cash desks anyway — they will burn

here in the photo - order a stand to make it easier to climb in and out - the answer is Voluntarism

OK, WE WILL NOT BE ABOUT SAD

[bask]

Quote: Rustam

wooden benches is okay let the fighter beat off everything with a tailbone before going out so that he doesn’t sleep, I certainly don’t know that some of the military-industrial complex also normally set up wooden benches and

And the booth is still lined with plywood sheets (which would burn better).

Quote: Rustam

OK, WE WILL NOT BE ABOUT SAD

Rustam agrees, maybe for the better, something will change.
Chinese clone RG-31BAE Systems. From South Africa, it is necessary to do a joint venture.

[avt]

Quote: bask

Mo Shoigu did not attend the military exhibition, what is not interested in the Russian military-industrial complex and its products?

But this is already an internal politician in the lineup at the helm of the authorities. In Russian, it’s an indicator of their specific kid’s stocks and it’s good that they didn’t beat the arrow and didn’t fill each other up. Probably GDP taxed the arrow on the phone

[Prosha]

I'm sorry, but this is a controversial issue, if the Ministry of Defense learns about new models of weapons and BT at exhibitions, then it’s worthless, but the question of signing contracts is quite reasonable, when declaring a massive rearmament of the army, the zero load of defense enterprises makes one wonder - this is disinformation and again "noodles for the fertile ears of taxpayers." and the exhibition is just needed for outside buyers.

[eplewke]

If they don’t show it, then there are reasons for that! Just the look and layout is a secret. Take for example the T-90SM? If the armata will be better than him, then I am satisfied! Give a new Russian T-34 ...

[Volkolak]

Quote: Civil

Why these reflections, here comes into service, there it will be seen what and how

All this flood about "armata", "kurganets", "boomerang" has been going on for several years, and things are still there. "Bulava" - does not fly, some kind of strange modernization of the T-72 at a crazy price, they buy BMP-3, then they don't buy it. A strange infa passed about the T-50, God forbid the truth. "Boreas" and "Ash" will not accept in any way, and even a lot of strange things are happening with the defense industry. The "Serdyukov affair" will not glue them together. All this smacks of large-scale sabotage, or, if you want, sabotage. They have begun to "reform" in Ukraine too. You can write me down as "all-prowler" or "all-prowler" as you like, but as a very close friend of mine says, "Well-balanced paranoia is a very useful thing when it comes to security."

[jasper]

modular system? placing the engine crew? depending on configuration? different number of rollers?

[mirag2]

Do you know what scares you the most? What turns out to be that this Armata is no different from object 195 ...

[Rus_87]

Ufff ... already a million times they discussed the alleged image of Armata, what she would be, etc. And to be honest, it’s a little fed up ... Let's wait silently for Armatushka, then we'll talk about how.

[velikoros-xnumx]

Yes let the fog with Armata. Either they really do not want to prematurely shock the international community with a promising domestic tank, or until the final appearance of the machine has been formed and there is nothing special to show. Although I belong to the category of stubborn optimists, I nevertheless consider the second version more likely .

[Vitaly Anisimov]

Will we hold out with this "Armata" the Chinese will steal (if they have not already stolen "...

[erased]

When they show, then we will evaluate. If only they would not tighten. Like Boomerang and Kurgan.

[cosmos111]

The article is not about anything. Solid if ....
One question? The platform has already been shown to the Indians, why not show at least photos, platforms.
The 5th generation fighter T-50 showed .And there are much more technological secrets.

[Russ69]

Quote: cosmos111

The 5th generation fighter T-50 showed .And there are much more technological secrets.

They showed it when I was ready. the same with "Armata", what's the point of showing what has not yet been done. Most likely, they will show when the tests begin not on a separate platform, but on a full-fledged tank. it will be the same with "Boomerang" and "Kurganets".
Rogozin yesterday, in a program with Solovyov, vowed that all this equipment would be at the 2015 parade ...

[cosmos111]

Quote: Russ69

They showed it when I was ready. the same with "Armata", what's the point of showing what has not yet been done.

Now, in this I agree with you, there is nothing to show.

Quote: Russ69

Rogozin yesterday, in a program with Nightingale

In my Rogozin, just a demogog. His words are like in a saying (he gave his word, he took it).
O. D. Rogozin would have sworn, in the year 15, there will be no “Armata”: I give a hand or a better language to clipping .That is then, this is an oath, and so simply hollow.

[Russ69]

Quote: cosmos111

OO Rogozin would have sworn, in the year 15, there will not be, “Almaty”: I give a hand or, better, the tongue for clipping

Here in 15 and check, nafig to declare something in advance. And there will be, there will be no "Armata" will be clear in a year for sure. not long left to wait.

[Prosha]

OO Rogozin would have sworn, in the year 15 there wouldn’t be, “Almaty”: I give my hand or better my tongue for clipping. That's then, this is an oath, and it’s just idle talk.

Do you need another individual who lies on the rails?

[alexpro66]

I already wrote that there were statements about an open show in 2013 - there were all the prerequisites for this - until the subcontractors in the form of a concern with an excellent Russian name "Shvabe" and something else ... But under contracts with the Ministry of Defense, everything is fine, therefore The MO does not bite, everything must be done before the end of next year. Of course there is Vin Rogozin, in a hurry, but again I will repeat all the crocodile tears on the Internet and the press about the failure of Armata's OCD are simply ridiculous.

[Dimy4]

It's my fault that it's not the topic, but all the same about our technology "... the Proton carrier rocket put a EUROPEAN communications satellite into orbit ...". Apparently, Protons are allergic only to domestic satellites, they need to be treated.

[Nitarius]

Well, how can you ride THROUGH EARS THAT ???
how many "EFFECTIVE MANAGERS" have been divorced today --- we must already take the STICK AND BEAT ALONG THE RIDGE! to work and not scratch with tongues. TFU ...... yoyo ... These are military men or women from Ryazan .... too .. too much talk

[cosmos111]

Quote: Nitarius

sounded like "EFFECTIVE MANAGERS" --- you need

The more effective managers will revolve around this project, the more government funds will go. Time for the manufacture and adoption of weapons, armored vehicles and MBT ,, Armata ,,,

[fennekRUS]

Who should work? only managers remained ..

[Kostya77]

The whole article is solid — if only ... Tanks, based on the history of tank building, are not built in a year or two, so it really seems like there is nothing to show and boast about, except for layouts, inventing incredible abilities for them. I think it's time to buy a T-90AM, let a limited number (240-320 pieces), but it is necessary

[marat1000]

beautiful dviglo ... It’s better if they just let out the engines, otherwise they can’t make a tank for many years, shame ... Especially considering that many components of foreign production, in fact, have been developing some kind of platform for 10 years. Ahahaha, shame

[Evgeny_Lev]

Well, if the design and construction of such a complex technique as a tank is a "shame" in your Fselena, then what can we say then about your occupation?
In theory, you should have been, having been consistent, having run away for a long time, and put your head on the wall in order to stop your arch-shameful existence.

[major071]

Good morning everybody! Lately, there have been a lot of rumors about "Armata" both in the media and on the Internet. I myself read recently that the vehicle's crew will consist of 2 people (mechanic and commander, who is also a gunner). Anything can be expected. The main thing is that the car would be really new and superior to foreign ones. And most importantly, she entered the troops, and did not remain in single copies, as often happens with us.

[Boot under the carpet]

Quote: Civil

Why these reflections, here comes into service, there it will be seen what and how

I don’t understand why talk about adopting without starting any tests.

[smiths xnumx]

When the Ministry of Defense announced that new equipment (T-90, BMP-3, BMD-4, etc.) would not be purchased because conceptually new platforms (Armata, Kurganets, Boomerang) would soon come into service, it was wrong. Overly optimistic or something. Because "soon" is a loose concept during development. This is normal - something does not work out, the terms are shifted.
And sitting for several years without orders for new equipment, limiting itself only to the repair and modernization of equipment with households is harmful for the military-industrial complex. It is clear that I wanted to avoid repetition with several different MBTs in service, but in vain. In the end, producing at least fifty new tanks and infantry fighting vehicles per year - over the past few years, this would amount to several hundred vehicles. And as new machines arrive on new "platforms", they could be transferred to "secondary" directions, or even exported at a discount.

[Gur]

I don’t know if they don’t order, they know what they’re doing, they have surprises with us but not so much

[Rash]

Photo of Almaty in the studio!

[vlad_pr]

As one of my acquaintances, a woman with a "low level of social responsibility," said, "do not fuss under the client, otherwise he sweats and slips off." Let us have patience, it is not long left, as with Ukraine.
Sincerely.

[Sergey Medvedev]

A lot of fog was let in. We must wait until the car is still shown.

[dievleha]

The mechanic on this site, and he is an expert, said that there will be no armata for 5 years. All his statements have been confirmed, so they don’t show because there is nothing to show. Mechanic  September 16, 2013 09:22

Quote:

Russia refused to buy T90 in any trim levels. Now we are waiting for Armata (which by the way will not be in the next 5-7 years)

[alexpro66]

The "expert" Mechanic intercepted the songs about the absence of Armata from Khlopotov, who sang it much earlier. And most importantly, if the Mechanic and others did not see anything, this does not mean that there is no MBT .. You will save this post of his until next year, then let's see what he sings)))

[chunga-changa]

What can I say, preparation for the past war reached its climax.
Something tells me "Armata" will not become MBT for the next ten fifteen years. This is not the modernization of a mastered tank by replacing the sighting system. Here is a really new, unparalleled layout, with diseases and their treatment no one has come across. And what surprises will be presented by everyday exploitation in the troops, here you cannot guess at all. In general, the memoirs will then write "was born in pain." The main thing is not entirely clear about the modern concept of using tanks by Russia, and in this light, the demand for solutions used in "armature". But it will obviously sell well on the foreign market.

[Evgeny_Lev]

If you don’t understand the concept, take a look at the map of Russia. Estimate its sizes, compare with the number of forces necessary for the conquest. And state the optimal combat unit, which would be the basis for the advancement of the breakthrough forces, as well as the security forces of the troops.

I will say right away that all these tales about the changed concept of waging war, bullshit, are in our database theater.
There is a brainwashing of the average man by focusing on the relatively insignificant, sabotage measures that existed in ALL known wars and were of TACTICAL importance.

ps Look at the example of Syria, in which the slippers only do what they scream "give anti-tank weapons", "prohibit the use of heavy weapons", etc.

So with all this, in the framework of the standards of decency to unfamiliar people, I have to admit the presence of a significant share of nonsense in your words.

[chunga-changa]

The concept of use defines the necessary parameters of technology that the military informs the developers. For example, if the military intends to restrain the enemy's offensive mainly in swampy terrain, then the most important is cross-country ability and the ability to sail. If in the desert, let's say protection from dust, if in the mountains, let's say the possibility of vertical take-off. What you described is not a concept and it does not appear from looking at the map of Russia. The concept appears when you look, let's say, at the map of Mongolia, and when you look at the map of Luxembourg, the concept of a completely different tank appears. Obviously, you are poorly guided even in what you write, for example, "our theater DB" is that, what are the characteristic features, just do not write again "look at the map", as they say, take a look yourself. About tactical importance, the battle is the use of tactics in nature, from whom the more perfect one wins, although maybe you personally win battles by the power of your thoughts, I do not know. About the conquest is generally beyond the bounds, I hasten to inform no one is going to conquer Russia. The goal is to dismember Russia with the subsequent political and economic subordination of the most significant territories, all this is going to be produced and produced not by military means. The hot phase is now being worked out in Syria, when the country's combat capabilities are undermined by the forces of various separatists and occurs almost without the participation of the armed forces of third countries. Air force participation, see Libya. About the invariability of the concept of war on "our theater of the database". At our DB theater, if you haven't noticed, the baltics, ukraine, moldavia, the caucasus and central asia have already been lost, a grouping of troops in eastern europe has been defeated. This is a modern war, and the war you fantasize about ended in 1991. If you think that all this "happened by itself" and has nothing to do with the database, fantasize further.

[Evgeny_Lev]

About the concept, the size of the theater of operations - reading you, it seems that you are an adherent of the idea, which implies for each relief and composition of the terrain (well, or the region of the Russian Federation) to have its own form of the main combat unit. I think this, you know, is not possible. And in the context of what you said about splitting, etc. is a kind of manifestation of this very "doctrine" of fragmentation, only at a different, not political, but actual level.
How are you going to form a reserve, interaction and unification with such a varied approach to technology?
About tactics - we are not looking at the geopolitical state of affairs, but directly, military operations, otherwise, then, what does the tank have to do with it? I will say even more, the quality and quantity of weapons and the training of the army as a whole, VERY seriously affect the "games" of politicians. And in that case, it's better with tanks than without them, regardless of whether you consider them a rudiment or not.

[chunga-changa]

I did not write that tanks should be made different, or they should not be made at all. I am writing that the war is now different, and whether the "armata" is suitable for the conditions of this new war, or it is required to revise the concept of the tank in its current form.
For example, a cannon is sharpened to combat enemy equipment, but was last used for this almost 20 years ago, for example, it makes no sense for the Americans to modernize what is, and everything works fine. Now the same cannon is used to solve other problems, but to combat infantry it has excess muzzle energy and, as a consequence, low survivability, and for urban conditions the projectile is not powerful enough. Perhaps the tank should be armed with a 152-180-mm low ballistics gun, and with armored objects to fight with reactive guided munitions from the ammunition station or mounted separately on the armor. The main tank fighter on the battlefield will be guided weapons (they seem to have learned how to fight with RPGs) launched from the ground and aircraft, and this and that is sharpened for defeat from above, therefore, the resistance of the upper hemisphere must be increased, and so on almost all issues. Requirements for a tank are changing rapidly, therefore, modularity of weapons, armor, protection, target designation and guidance systems is needed. This is about "different tanks for different conditions".

[alexpro66]

Basically, everything was worked out for 195 with the exception of electronic aiming ... and automatic fire control

[sashka]

A snapshot of the layout does not indicate its presence in metal. I'm tired of all this hats ... Build, install, set up production. All the rest Glory to the "great". Don't be like "esaul" and "grishka (john) three-volt"! Kyu ..

[USNik]

The same articles on Armata stably appear once a week. The trend however. Although this set +, for the picture A-85-3.

[Kars]

It is likely that in the near future there will be a tank bridge, a heavy flamethrower system and a mine layer on a single chassis.

Without going into technical details on this fact, the emerging drank is already visible ..
To create special vehicles on the chassis of a promising tank, when thousands of armored vehicles with unspent resources are in service with the Russian Federation is a waste of money.At the same time, one chassis for such a set simply will not work, huge modifications will be required for each vehicle, especially considering that they are still going to do artillery self-propelled guns, and TBMP. Unification of nodes is even less clear, but this is not about the campaign.

[alexpro66]

What does huge alteration mean ??? You are not familiar with the concept of modularity or you did not play Lego in childhood ?? Do not judge our designers by your abilities ...

[Kars]

Quote: alexpro66

that means huge alterations ??? You are not familiar with the concept of modularity or you did not play Lego in childhood ?? Do not judge our designers by your abilities ...

I am familiar with the principle of modularity. But you are not)))

Although not - you are aware of the design of the Armata tank, you have insider information))))

[alexpro66]

Evidence in the studio about your acquaintance with the principle of modularity !!! Where is your evidence ???

[Kars]

Quote: alexpro66

Evidence in the studio about your acquaintance with the principle of modularity !!! Where is your evidence ???

This is said by a clown who does not want to prove anything himself.))
Considering the modularity principle in the BTT, considering the period from the end of the 20th century, the French were the first to serially apply in armor protection. Now the modularity of weapons has become widespread. and those campaigns are not on a scale.

[alexpro66]

Well, you do not become like me, do not be a clown, and prove your knowledge in the principle of modularity - can you have any certificate or God forbid a diploma! Show!

[Kars]

Quote: alexpro66

Well, you do not become like me, do not be a clown, and prove your knowledge in the principle of modularity - can you have any certificate or God forbid a diploma! Show!

Why should a clown prove something? A clever person, from what I wrote, would understand that I am familiar with the general concept of foolishness. And are you sure that there are certificates on the principle of modularity? And also tell me that UVZ received them? In fact, from the models and conversations it turns out that UVZ is going to milk the Russian Defense Ministry until it turns blue, while the cost of the same paver will be in the region of 70% of Armat's MBT, which is quite possible to surpass the cost of the Korean Black Panther. And the artillery sau will have a lot of restrictions, and even the American can surpass it paladin.

[Cynic]

Quote: Kars

Why should a clown prove something?

Hmm.
Honest, I read your comments and can not get rid of deja vu

One to one.

[alexpro66]

First, I don’t know who Mr. Smirnov is and I didn’t turn to him with complaints! I remember you somehow bravorously gave me a joke on my correct comment on your comment, hinted at sanctions

So ... think before "interfering" .... a little ... unwittingly

the moderator sent me warnings about what a distinguished and heroic person you are in your years and how respectfully I should communicate with you (and you can communicate with me however you want)) the next day my rating dropped from 600 that way to minus 3 thousand and There were restrictions on the number of posts per day. The PM unsubscribed to me in a forum member asked where so many minuses came from, I outlined the situation and that’s all .. Did I answer you correctly and respectfully ??
Further .. I did not pour anything on the Mechanic (and others like me) (by the way, I somehow like the likes of them more than the likes of you, they are not rude), sorry, he dropped himself into this ... He expressed his point of view, I blamed mine his lies and fables, and somehow all the same argued it in his posts, the members of the forum supported my point of view, others supported the Mechanic. After rereading his comments, you will see that he has no arguments against my arguments .. that it is my fault that he drove himself into a corner .. I asked him several times to stop fantasizing, to no avail. In principle, we are in the same conditions as the Mechanics, but it turns out that my "fables" are more complicated. What prevented the Mechanic from sketching out the scheme of access and regime to the Armata is not a secret ... he just did not know this at the same time. How do I know we can work as a mechanic at UVZ, but definitely not with Armata.
Not enough of my arguments, so Khlopotov gave his assessment, it's hard to argue with him.
If you thought that I work in the protocol service of the DM and measure the time, you were mistaken, I didn’t detect it, but it was something like that .. (but what would change if it was there for 25 minutes 32 seconds ???) Anyway, it’s for the drum .. pieces of iron ..
Well, stay with your opinion. There is no Armata. There is no Armata. Everyone decides for himself. What is repeated, re-read my posts there is enough said. For some reason, I’m not indifferent to the fate of MBT and I have the opportunity to spend time on the forum and it’s a shame when the same respected Khlopotov bears a lot of foolishness (for his reasons) about Armata, so I decided to support Armata a bit on your forum (especially when I saw the Mechanics posts) )).
And the most interesting thing is that YOU are so furious? - Argument your (and the Mechanic including) statements at least somehow, and then probably I would be where you indicated above
In the meantime, everything shows the opposite. And do not cherish the hope that the writings of the Mechanics will be justified, he will simply breed you- His one statement about the previous MTO MBT will simply show everything very soon ..
With the same HUGE disrespect

[Armata]

Quote: alexpro66

I did not pour anything on the Mechanic (and others like me) (by the way, I somehow like the likes more than the likes of you - they are not rude) - sorry, he dropped himself into this ... He expressed his point of view, I accused him of lying and fables, and somehow all the same argued this in his posts, the members of the forum supported my point of view, others supported the Mechanic. After rereading his comments, you will see that he has no arguments against my arguments .. that it is my fault that he drove himself into a corner .. I asked him several times to stop fantasizing, to no avail. In principle, we are in the same conditions as the Mechanics, but it turns out that my "fables" are more complicated. What prevented the Mechanic from sketching out the scheme of access and regime to the Armata is not a secret ... he just did not know this at the same time. How do I know we can work at UVZ as a mechanic, but definitely not with Armata.
Not enough of my arguments, so Khlopotov gave his assessment, it's hard to argue with him.
If you thought that I work in the protocol service of the DM and measure the time, you were mistaken, I didn’t detect it, but it was something like that .. (but what would change if it was there for 25 minutes 32 seconds ???) Anyway, it’s for the drum .. pieces of iron ..
Well, stay with your opinion. There is no Armata. There is no Armata. Everyone decides for himself. What is repeated, re-read my posts there is enough said. For some reason, I’m not indifferent to the fate of MBT and I have the opportunity to spend time on the forum and it’s a shame when the same respected Khlopotov bears a lot of foolishness (for his reasons) about Armata, so I decided to support Armata a bit on your forum (especially when I saw the Mechanics posts) )).
And the most interesting thing is that YOU are so furious? - Argument your (and the Mechanic including) statements at least somehow, and then probably I would be where you indicated above
In the meantime, everything shows the opposite. And do not cherish the hope that the writings of the Mechanics will be justified, he will simply breed you- His one statement about the previous MTO MBT will simply show everything very soon ..

That is, you know all the points of TK and access systems in the shop. Good. Tell me how to at least get to the uvz subcontractors in a personal car and where to enter the factory? And yes, give me the 19.7 19.8 points from TK to Armata separately. I immediately say that I don’t know everything, but according to their specialization they somehow provide everything.

[alexpro66]

You at the pass office - they will explain everything there ..)))

[Kars]

Quote: alexpro66

You at the pass office - they will explain everything there ..)))

And what problems to answer?
For example, I'm interested.

[Armata]

Quote: Kars

And what problems to answer?
For example, I'm interested.

I will answer you dear. I have a month pass. The pass is done on average 3 days. Well, I’m just curious to find out where the pass office is located and how to apply

[alexpro66]

Well, you also didn’t cheerfully tell us how the admission to the security territory is adjusted ?? I assumed that you are a simple hard worker at UVZ at the carriage production .. well, in the worst case, an engineer ..

[Armata]

Quote: alexpro66

Well, you also didn’t cheerfully tell us how the admission to the security territory is adjusted ?? I assumed that you are a simple hard worker at UVZ at the carriage production .. well, in the worst case, an engineer ..

Yes Yes. In general, I have an indirect relation to UVZ. Read attentive

[alexpro66]

Yes, how much you can make up for stupidities - all who work directly or indirectly with Armata KNOW the admission procedure .. Stop stirring up the water .. you even haven’t heard about it from the bottom of your ear ..

[uwzek]

Calm down! The mechanic does not work at the UVZ, it is quite possible, has a sideways relation to the production of tanks (maybe not), he is definitely interested in this topic. Those working with Armata do not always know the admission procedure: they have been admitted to work with classified documents for a long time, and access to the plant provides a regular pass.
There are cars from the armata project in metal, they have no resemblance to models from the Internet, they will ride at the fifteenth year parade. Believe me, for "some!" comrades we have "Armata", like the Olympics in Sochi ...

[alexpro66]

Yes, you promised today pictures of "Coalition" What software fails again ???

[Armata]

Quote: alexpro66

Yes, you promised today pictures of "Coalition" What software fails again ???

You know if they allowed everything that they showed in the morning 25, before 13-00 I would have posted it. And so it's not about software, it's about leadership. Victoria doesn’t allow (people who know me for a long time even saw a picture of this FSB). You know when you are unobtrusively approached at work and are advised to just not download anything from the worker.

[Kars]

Quote: alexpro66

I assumed that you are a simple hard worker at UVZ

Wow, and when it’s a simple robots issued a pass for a month)) As I see it with logic and with a sense you are offended))

[alexpro66]

Yes, Kars is so offended that it has already changed two handkerchiefs ..))) I just sob ..

[Armata]

Quote: Kars

Wow, and when it’s a simple robots issued a pass for a month)) As I see it with logic and with a sense you are offended))

Fair. This is just a boy deprived of female attention. Here he sits and sublimates. But I’m just wondering what else she’ll say. And note the friend. He doesn’t answer a single question, he constantly goes into a scumbag

[Kars]

Quote: Mechanic

It's just a boy

I'm not sure about the boy. but I wouldn’t refuse to look at his IQ test

[Rustam]

Guys you arrange here :( finding out who is cooler and higher
All the same, respectful to each other

One knows one thing and gives metered information, the other also something (probably) from this and some kind of picture comes out, for example, I know little about Armata, but it’s also interesting

We didn’t see the Coalition (on the Kamaz chassis) but I knew before that there were problems on the Kamaz chassis and how it will be fired from this chassis is not known?

I need to argue, I also argue, but you should not go over to personality.

[Prosha]

It is gratifying to see another sane person! ... as they say in modern Russian-RESPECT

[Flooding]

Quote: vaf

You can once again cheer on Mr. Smirnov for being in the skull .. "lowered"

Not sure if you are right.
I personally approached Fantast on this issue without any requests from alexpro66.
Because I am sure that "sinking into the skull" is quite an ugly task.
Especially for people who are confident in their innocence.

[fero]

I will minus all articles about Armata until I see her photo. Tired of reasoning, worse than the bitter radish, about it is not known what.
Z.Y. I know that in the article and about the x-shaped engine it is written, but the title of the article causes a persistent allergy.

[Samy]

"Several new developments of the domestic defense industry, which may take part in the Victory Parade in 2015."

Is this an indicator? Do the technique before the parade for the parade? A very strange "target designation".

[Antibrim]

Armata is good, but no one has information on the t-80? it will be gradually in the wild? after running out of resources?

[MrFYGY]

They say "storage base". A sad ending for such a car.

[PROXOR]

Quote: AntiBrim

Armata is good, but no one has information on the t-80? it will be gradually in the wild? after running out of resources?

Unfortunately yes. By 2020, in addition to Armata, T90 of various modifications and the remnants of T72 of deep modernization should remain. With the development of anti-tank weapons, the T80 lost its main advantage. His speed now does not solve. Again, the point in speed if fuel carts will lag all the time. If the concept of Armata is implemented, then in addition to its direct focus, it will immediately block the T80 responsibility area. With an engine of 1500-1800l.s. even with 65 tons of live weight, it can easily move up to 100km / h.

[Antibrim]

it’s unfortunate that friends who were tankers say that 80 will be better, 72 that are unfortunately bad in many ways, for example, were stolen in Novobosirsk, half of the walkie-talkie did not work, charging devices and much more. and these tanks taught future tankers. t 80 were in the best condition. and why they need fuel, they need to steal less, officers are all on diesel cars, I think for an obvious reason. tankers unfortunately suffer, but for now the armata will be able to upgrade to 80, because if 90 is not enough, I don’t say anything about armature when it’s enough.

[Agent 008]

"ARMATA" are like alien spaceships, everyone talks about them, but no one has seen ...

[tank 34]

It is interesting to the Ural Design Bureau that there is enough conscience to admit that they actually did not create the tank themselves, but took the ideas and developments of the promising KHMB tank A. Morozov from the early 74s of the last century.

[nick-name]

It is interesting to the Ural Design Bureau that there is enough conscience to admit that they actually did not create the tank themselves, but took ideas and developments from the Stone Age and use round-shaped wheels

[Armata]

Quote: nick-name

It is interesting to the Ural Design Bureau that there is enough conscience to admit that they actually did not create the tank themselves, but took ideas and developments from the Stone Age and use round-shaped wheels

They didn’t come to complain. Design of KBTM and Omichi. For the most naive. Omsk Design Bureau has long been part of UVZ.

[nick-name]

Quote: Mechanic

They didn’t come to complain. Design of KBTM and Omichi. For the most naive. Omsk Design Bureau has long been part of UVZ.

Please clarify the meaning of your phrase

[Armata]

Quote: nick-name

Please clarify the meaning of your phrase

Let me explain. The development of a promising ball platform was made by two design bureaus Ural TransMash and Omsk Institute. The Institute of Metals Testing and Scientific impoverishment "Bulat" also take part. And only the Urals are here? We have never ascribed laurels to ourselves.

[nick-name]

Delaaa ... Well, let's point by point, do we mean armature by a promising platform? If so, where does Omsk and Transmash have to do with it? Omsk the last thing that was done was a barge haule, a transmash on the basis of a tank chassis makes a chassis for an ACS. It’s not clear at all how NTIIM got here, it’s a purely artillery range, and has nothing to do with the development of the HCH armored vehicles. What is "Bulat" I don’t know, please enlighten what kind of office it is and what does it do? And since such a booze has gone, why don't you mention VNII Transmash?

[Armata]

Let's go point by point. With UVZ, an extremely weak research institute. The project involved KB Trans Masha and Omichi. In those days, Omsk needed orders extremely. At the test site, the properties of armor and tilt angles are tested (so for reference, tell me what kind of test site and where it is?) After the GDP decided to collect all the plants under one UVZ, all the laurels took UVZ. Try to refute.

[nick-name]

And you are funny
Nusss, let's go)))
1. At UVZ (I mean the plant itself, which is on the Lining) there is no research institute, neither weak nor strong. There are several design bureaus of the plant itself and there is a UKBTM, which is part of the UVZ corporation. If you called the UKBTM "Extremely weak research institute" ... then this is a diagnosis.
2. Transmash makes the chassis for self-propelled guns, since there are their own specific requirements. Omsk is not involved in business at all. And why do you keep silent about the leading institute of the industry ???
3. About the NTIIM training ground it’s generally a song By the way, it is located in the village "Prospector", it is next to NT. As a specialist, you probably know who is the developer of the "armor and tilt angles" that are tested there?

[Armata]

Quote: nick-name

At UVZ (I mean the plant itself, which is on the Lining) there is no research institute, neither weak nor strong. There are several design bureaus of the plant itself and there is a UKBTM, which is part of the UVZ corporation. If you called the UKBTM "Extremely weak research institute" ... then this is a diagnosis.

UKBTM is the Ural Design Bureau of Transport Engineering. What is your address? My dad has been working there for 30 for years.

Quote: nick-name

. Transmash makes the chassis for self-propelled guns, since there are their own, specific requirements. Omsk is not involved in business at all. And why do you keep silent about the leading institute of the industry ???

It has long been doing not only the chassis, this is for reference. The truth is now doing trams instead of self-propelled guns.

Quote: nick-name

About the NTIIM landfill is generally a song, by the way, it is located in the village "Prospector", it is next to NT. As a specialist, you probably know who is the developer of the "armor and tilt angles" that are tested there?

So then he is in Nizhny Tagil. Directly behind Nicolo Pavlomsky (from Eburg in a straight line, right after moving along which ammunition is being transported to the landfill). This is one of the areas of NT.

Quote: nick-name

And you are funny

I have very bad humor.

[nick-name]

Quote: Mechanic

My dad has been working there for 30 years already.

So they would ask Bati what the department of 11 UKBTM is doing, and not post nonsense about the running from Omsk

Quote: Mechanic

I have very bad humor.

Yes, it seems not only with humor ...

[Armata]

Quote: nick-name

So they would ask Bati what the department of 11 UKBTM is doing, and not post nonsense about the running from Omsk

And so nothing that now is one KB with Ekat? And what kind of department? There are design teams, but the departments only deal with copying and archiving, but yes there is also a quality department, a customer department. There is one thing but, they are not involved in the construction

[nick-name]

Quote: Mechanic

And so nothing that now is one KB with Ekat?

UKBTM - one KB with Ekat? Is Transmash visible? You are drunk???

Quote: Mechanic

And what kind of department?

Well, your dad has been working there for 30 years, ask him
Although you can not strain, you have already shown your level of awareness.

[Cynic]

Quote: nick-name

UKBTM - one KB with Ekat? Is Transmash visible?

I look here the humor has gone, black, you can even say the blackest.
You will stipulate among themselves what to call. And then on the fly you get naughty from the names of KB Transmash, Omichi. Here by name, there by registration.
What is the difference, everything is now under UVZ.

[nick-name]

Quote: Cynic

I look here the humor has gone, black, you can even say the blackest.

Not even humor, the black race went ETOGES it was necessary to write down the artillery range in the developers of the new platform))) And the rest is brain juice

[Papania]

Saw 70-80 percent of the bobos, and then cheerfully report, sorry it didn’t work out

[Donvel]

And this is an option! They will hang some range finder on the T-72B and proudly say - "Here's a new modification for the Russian army!"

[Sirs]

An armored tank will definitely not be inferior to modern tanks of other leading countries, and I want a 152 mm gun to stand.

[alone]

But can immediately put 203mm-vuyu?

[pawel57]

Quote: tank 34

It is interesting to the Ural Design Bureau that there is enough conscience to admit that they actually did not create the tank themselves, but took the ideas and developments of the promising KHMB tank A. Morozov from the early 74s of the last century.

Is it necessary to rush? Why Armata? There is no ideal weapon, even a nuclear one is not perfect.! For 10-15 years, you can certainly safely fight on modernized tanks. No one has a fundamentally new one. Of course, this does not mean not creating a new one. A lot of screaming about bmpt. T72 without a powerful gun turret. Why did you decide that in special conditions it will be a reliable support for tanks? It will also burn if you do not train people to fight. In the steppes of Ukraine and Russia, yes, the BMP will work well. Slightly special conditions and without infantry are a good target. Vicious circle. Place a 57mm zen gun on it, Zen. missiles, equipment for detection and operation in the air defense system and maybe it will pay off. They would have given Assad a long time ago and run in a local war.

[alexpro66]

! Water on the water! In this article I would put a plus sign http://warfiles.ru/show-39532-noveyshiy-rossiyskiy-tank-prodemonstrirovan-v-oche

n-uzkom-krugu.html
Well logically collected everything that floats on the Internet ..
And here is the author
"The use of developments in the classical layout of the tank with the placement of the MTO in the stern will not allow you to competently dispose of the internal volume of the hull for the location of the troop compartment in the version of an infantry fighting vehicle. Thus, the Armata platform probably has an engine and transmission in the front of the hull .."
on the basis of his knowledge of armored vehicles makes such a conclusion for all chassis on the Armata platform! What to say - MINUS!

[alexpro66]

Quote: VOLKOLAK

Quote: Civil

Why these reflections, here comes into service, there it will be seen what and how

All this flood about "armata", "kurganets", "boomerang" has been going on for several years, and things are still there. "Bulava" - does not fly, some kind of strange modernization of the T-72 at a crazy price, they buy BMP-3, then they don't buy it. A strange infa passed about the T-50, God forbid the truth. "Boreas" and "Ash" will not accept in any way, and even a lot of strange things are happening with the defense industry. The "Serdyukov affair" will not glue them together. All this smacks of large-scale sabotage, or, if you want, sabotage. They have begun to "reform" in Ukraine too. You can write me down as "all-prowler" or "all-prowler" as you like, but as a very close friend of mine says, "Well-balanced paranoia is a very useful thing when it comes to security."

Everything is simple! It came to the presidents, ministers, generals that you can’t create new and good for three kopeks and without modern or modernized production and technology, and with the last one we have some ass ... yes still personnel !! so nothing incomprehensible happens - everything is clear!

[Armata]

Quote: alexpro66

Everything is simple! It came to the presidents, ministers, generals that you can’t create new and good for three kopeks and without modern or modernized production and technology, and with the last one we have some ass ... yes still personnel !! so nothing incomprehensible happens - everything is clear!

And where did Armata come from?

[alexpro66]

And what do you not understand the difference what it is to build the heels of prototypes and what is the mass production of thousands of machines ??? Well, you ask questions !!))

[Armata]

Quote: alexpro66

And what do you not understand the difference what it is to build the heels of prototypes and what is the mass production of thousands of machines ??? Well, you ask questions !!))

And UVZ imprisoned for what? Maybe their paths do experimental cars?

[alexpro66]

And where does UVZ ?? Is he building a prototype of himself ?? AND MAKES ACCESSORIES AND BLOCKS AND UNITS FOR ALL 100 PERCENTS SOMETHING PRODUCTION OF MICROCHIPS OF CERAMICS ITD POLYMERS I DO NOT SEE ON THE LIST TO UZS ?? That there are no allies ??? The question to which I answered concerned not only UVZ but the entire defense industry

and much more is happening with the defense industry ..

HER GOD MECHANIC WHAT HAPPENS TO YOU ??? I don’t even know how to comment on your questions ..)))

[Armata]

Quote: alexpro66

And where does UVZ ?? Is he building a prototype of himself ?? AND MAKES ACCESSORIES AND BLOCKS AND UNITS FOR ALL 100 PERCENTS SOMETHING PRODUCTION OF MICROCHIPS OF CERAMICS ITD POLYMERS I DO NOT SEE ON THE LIST TO UZS ?? That there are no allies ??? The question to which I answered concerned not only UVZ but the entire defense industry

Yes, it seems I didn’t see anything except the Internet.

Quote: alexpro66

GOD MECHANIC WHAT WITH YOU ??? I don’t even know how to comment on your questions ..)))

Duck do not comment. You know better than anyone that I am a car mechanic. Do not stoop to comments from a car mechanic.

[me]

I hope it will be a high-tech and most importantly safe tank for the crew, albeit a heavy one, I think it is not so important, otherwise why bother to set up it to make the next tin can, which will be taken out with one shot along with the crew?

[Hauptam]

In my opinion there will not be any ARMAT in the near future. The concept is not clear what to do, how to use it, how to teach repair, etc. Morozovs, Koshkins were transferred and forgive Guderians.

[Armata]

Quote: Hauptam

Morozovs, Koshkins were transferred and forgive Guderians.

There is no Stalin. There are brains, they just don’t give money, and to hell with money, no one wants to work for sale. There is not a single contract at home.

[Prosha]

You don’t even understand how you’re right when the prestige of engineers fell and those who didn’t go to the main competitions go to engineering, where do Koshkin and Morozov come from, I wonder: how are gunsmiths and rocket launchers alive with aviators, probably they have their own the selection system for all talents (of course I exaggerate) I don’t think that in the 30s the tests were put in envelopes, and teachers and students emphasized the amount of payment for this or that exam (I try not to offend anyone, but it won’t work). And most importantly, who will do the ARMATU if they suddenly bring it to mass production? At a simple car factory in machine tool manufacturing - roughly 100 out of 40 workers aged 65-10 are only 18 to 30-12 and the sadder it is, there are not just salaries, there are no simple working conditions - the average temperature in the workshop in winter does not exceed XNUMX degrees, the deficit is accurate measuring instruments etc. and you say armata. I would venture to suggest that UVZ is no better. I really hope I'm wrong.

[scientist]

I hope the developers think of making a remote workplace for the crew so that they can control and conduct the battle remotely.

[Bumbarash59]

Fire truck made of T-80

[Bumbarash59]

Fire truck made of T-80

[Bumbarash59]

And here is a closer look

[Bumbarash59]

Of t80 fire truck

[Armata]

And what is so special about her? Saw at the show. Village stew is normal.

[waisson]

I don’t know over the past few years, the Armat base has been so advertised, I believe that our defense industry should create something else, they will .......

[Armata]

Quote: waisson

I don’t know over the past few years, the Armat base has been so advertised, I believe that our defense industry should create something different, they will .......

It takes only time, time and more time.

[Kir]

The question is, why write an article if everything is based on some vague assumptions, and even if you write then in the spirit of futurism with the involvement of experts and other things: an instrument such and such, MTO such, etc., etc. you look and are lucky - You guessed 70 percent that way with a penny.

[pawel57]

Quote: Rustam

bask for example?
Self-propelled guns, coalition, single-barrel and wheeled chassis

And was it) like no, I said earlier that with the Kamazovsky chassis this is unreal
Good modernization of the same T-72, armored Urals, French control systems and optics, etc.

The army itself doesn’t want to order advanced samples such as modernized Tigers with DUMV, BMP 3m, T-90MS and so on - they all takethen why the hell can you take
I don’t understand at all why it is needed, for what? He is not needed in the motorized rifle, tank battalion, division. They have their own combat vehicles based on armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles and military units. Cormandir and communications. Perhaps in the commandant platoon of the regiment or com. division company? There is something there. Now, if there were police forces in the armed forces, that’s where he belongs. Maybe Rebovtsev, but would prefer an armored personnel carrier or infantry fighting vehicle passing ability and swim. Perhaps special forces for movement under armor.


an example for the same Tigers who are going with class 3 - they are told to order with class 5 or 6 -they are not Do you need air conditioning? -soldiers inappropriately
, order a step to make it easier to climb-it's too much
Then maybe mine seats with head restraints? and why?put the usual and loopholes in the windows? -don't let the transom open completely and on top arrow protection is needed? -Lord why do we have Duncans Maclauts not but you give us smoke grenades -Sometimes it seems that in MO alone are dumb

and there was something to see

photo (clickable) TIGER + Nekster -ARX 20 thing, but I think in our army this kind of good is not seen

[alexpro66]

I’ll try to put it here Well, and how will it look with the front MTO? Engineer?

[Armata]

Quote: alexpro66

I will try to lay out here

This layout is a bunch of years old. Better tell who it stands in the office? Probably at UVZ.

[Alex 241]

Zhen welcome, is she?

[Armata]

Hi Sasha. She is. Only now it looks a little different. And this one remained in memory of the transmash, on the alley of the 4 site.

[Alex 241]

All, keep quiet "hush"

[bask]

Quote: Alex 241

All, keep quiet, be quiet

Good evening Sanya.
Better tell me what kind of pipelace was presented at the exhibition.
In the course of self-propelled guns ,, Geocind ,,. Though ...

[Armata]

Quote: bask

Good evening Sanya.
Better tell me what kind of pipelace was presented at the exhibition.
In the course of self-propelled guns ,, Geocind ,,. Though ..

This is not an exhibition. This is not even a prospector.

[bask]

Quote: Mechanic

This is not an exhibition. This is not even mined

The newspaper printed. Evening Gazette: All News
Yekaterinburg Perm Tyumen Kurgan. Her photo from the exhibition. [Media = http: //veved.ru/news/37793-vystavka-russia-arms-expo-201
3-vstretila-gostej-tankami-novostyu-o-shojgu-i-tshhatelnym-dosmotrom-foto.html]

[Armata]

I just see that this is not a prospector. And the rest is on the conscience of scribblers. Although wait a minute, this is similar to the outbuildings behind the main building, although I'm not sure. I have not seen such a thing there. There was a modified geocint. In short, it wasn’t in front of the central pavilion.

[bask]

Quote: Mechanic

It wasn’t the central pavilion.

Thank you. In short, there is no faith in journalists.
Let's hope that at least the Coalition will be shown soon.
The exhibition was held, and information ... interesting 00000.
Compare with the Turkish IDEF-2013, the Turks put up everything new and not any secrets ....

[Alex 241]

Andrei, what do you think it is?

[bask]

Quote: Alex 241

Andrei, what do you think it is?

Sasha, I honestly don’t know.
It looks like depth bombs.

[Kars]

Quote: bask

It looks like depth bombs.

Come on. Have you not seen the photo from the self-propelled guns? This is a silencer)))

[Alex 241]

Hi Andrei, absolutely, the German burghers complained about the cannonade from the landfill, so they dazzled the muffler.

[bask]

Quote: Kars

Hi Andrey, absolutely, the German burghers complained about the cannonade from the firing range, so go blind

Quote: Kars

Come on. Have you not seen the photo from the self-propelled guns? This is a silencer)))

Lounged It happens, just a silencer for self-propelled guns.

[Kars]

__________

[Tommygun]

This is an American satellite camouflage X show

[Alex 241]

Andryukh cannon from the "Coalition" based on "Hyacinth"

[alexpro66]

This is not her .. I posted it on the chassis 195 and with a newer booth. Yes, in any case, what kind of front MTO do you upload!? 7 Funny

[Armata]

Quote: alexpro66

it's not her .. I posted it on the 195 chassis with a newer box too. Yes, in any case, what kind of front MTO are you uploading !? 7 Funny

Only alive she is not.

[alexpro66]

Do not go away from the answer .. How, you are proving to me that the self-propelled guns will be with the front MTO, explain where the designers will get the ass of the booth and decide the weight distribution ??? - with the front MTO after the first shot with such a booth, the self-propelled guns will tip over ...
and pictures of KAOLITICA from the exhibition YOUR NEXT LIE — you don’t have them and cannot be, if only under the name Mechanic unsubscribes DM))))

[Kars]

Quote: alexpro66

explain where the designers will give the ass booths and solve the problem with the weight distribution ??? -

why put an ass somewhere? Case dimensions that will change greatly from the bow or stern placement of the MTO?
The question of weight distribution - or maybe just by transferring the MTO into the nose and balance .. the boom ..?

Quote: alexpro66

with the front MTO, after the first shot with such a booth, the self-propelled gun will simply tip over ...

Why? How do you explain this? Maybe this is with the feed MTO, to which there is still weight .. the booths ... will it cause the self-propelled guns to capsize, not even from a shot, but from a bump?

[alexpro66]

Dear Kars, reread my early post on this topic .. apparently you forgot what resolution you gave in the last time, I quote ...

Quote: alexpro66
Just move this turret in the photo back and the truth will be revealed to you
Kars:
She oprakinetsa, And if some wise guy decides to reserve self-propelled guns to tank)))) then I will laugh for a long time. At least for UVZ Izhet and interesting. There will be a price like gold.

What is the opinion has changed right now? signed a coalition with the Mechanic against me ??))
Monoblock MTO ARMATUES LONG MTO AREA and if you used front self-propelled guns to self-propelled guns, you still had to lengthen the base AND GOT ​​THE GRAIN SNAKE plus useless empty volume at the back, hypothetically can be used for additional ammunition but then the combat weight exceeds all reasonable limits and refused

[Kars]

Quote: alexpro66

What is the opinion has changed right now?

If you didn’t notice, then nothing has changed for me. When placing the tower in the stern, with the stern placement of the MTO, it will overturn.

Quote: alexpro66

Monoblock MTO ARMATUS LONG MTO AREA

How do you know? and how many?

Quote: alexpro66

if for self-propelled guns to use the front it was necessary to lengthen the base

WHY? So that on the fingers - the base is 10 meters. MTO-well, 3 meters. Why, if these three meters rearrange the base, should the base be extended?

Quote: alexpro66

plus useless empty volume at the back

You can not use everything to worry - start from facilitating a large elevation angle, which will also reduce the height of the tower, ending with fuel tanks. At the same time, I don’t understand why you need to use the Armata base, and not a specially designed case using standardized parts

[alexpro66]

If you didn’t notice, then nothing has changed for me. When placing the tower in the stern, with the stern placement of the MTO, it will overturn.

Good!

How do you know? and how many?

All information from one source Motor block and T-shaped transes ..

WHY? So that on the fingers - the base is 10 meters. MTO-well, 3 meters. Why, if these three meters rearrange the base, should the base be extended?

Due to the length of the box - the first, the second - MTO + armored capsule - I posted a picture - if you think that when the MTO is thrown, the booth will remain in place - you are mistaken.

You can not use everything to worry - start from facilitating a large elevation angle, which will also reduce the height of the tower, ending with fuel tanks. At the same time, I don’t understand why you need to use the Armata base, and not a specially designed case using standardized parts

Well, I agree with the tanks, you can also screw the dry closet, only all this can be lengthened .. But the fact is that in the technical specifications of the MTO SPGs, the front designers did not offer the front MTO and the body would not be from MBT (or did you think that they just use the MBT body?) and so it will be on a slightly elongated base JUST WITH UNIFIED UNITS AND UNITS WELL AND NATURALLY WITHOUT POWERFUL LOBBY BOOKING BUT WITH BRONECAPSULE.

[Kars]

Quote: alexpro66

Motor block and trance T-shaped.

So what?

Quote: alexpro66

Due to the length of the booth

SHE then what?

Quote: alexpro66

second-MTO + armored capsules

Why armored capsule for long-range self-propelled guns?

Quote: alexpro66

I posted a picture

What did you post the picture of? The old model of the double-barrel Coalition? Then what does it have to do with it?

Quote: alexpro66

the transfer of the MTO booth will remain in place - you are mistaken.

Well, I don’t see the reasons for the transfer of the shoulder straps of the tower, especially if it becomes empty and not MTO.

Quote: alexpro66

Well, I agree with the tanks, and you can screw the dry closet only, all this can be extended

It’s strange that you have an empty place under the tower. Now I wonder what is in the middle of the hull? Frets - frontal armor, armored capsule, XXXXX, MTO above which the shoulder strap.

Here is the picture - I am SURE that the layout, since I did not see the photo with the tower turned, I can’t even determine from it where the axis of rotation is. And it will most likely flip over even with a slight unevenness.

Quote: alexpro66

Or did you think that they just use the housing from the MBT?

So where, then, is your highly advertised modularity? And why come to me the early pretensions?

Quote: alexpro66

What does huge alteration mean ??? You are not familiar with the concept of modularity

Quote: alexpro66

JUST WITH UNIFIED UNITS AND UNITS WELL AND NATURALLY WITHOUT POWERFUL LOBBY BRAIN RESERVATION BUT WITH BRONECAPSULE.

And if it is without a frontal reservation, it’s probably overturned

[alexpro66]

So what?

Maybe you need to turn on thinking? Longer MTO than the T72 \ 90 family

SHE then what?

Since it is also longer than Msta’s and especially M109 (AND MUCH heavier AND ANY OTHER GRAVITY CENTER, respectively)

Why armored capsule for long-range self-propelled guns?

A unified platform-frontal armor can not be hung up and without an armored capsule it is impossible to integrate the crew module - changes will be required that no one will do.

Well, I don’t see the reasons for transferring the shoulder straps of the tower, especially if there is a void under it and not MTO

Sorry, you don’t see! -The designers see ..

What did you post the picture of? The old model of the double-barrel Coalition? Then what does it have to do with it?

Look at the picture with a single-barrel version - I posted it earlier

It’s strange that you have an empty place under the tower. Now I wonder what is in the middle of the hull? Frets - frontal armor, armored capsule, XXXXX, MTO above which the shoulder strap.

Epaulettes of the tower in front of the MTO and not above (over the back of the booth) That they did not tell me under the epaulettes of the designer)) can the tanks and the dry closet)))

So where, then, is your highly advertised modularity? And why come to me the early pretensions?

And what is the contradiction? Slightly elongated chassis with a modified arrangement of suspension nodes under the shoulder strap and MTO ..

And if it is without a frontal reservation, it’s probably overturned

Something overturning Msta was not observed, if the driver was trained properly ..

[Kars]

Quote: alexpro66

Maybe you need to turn on thinking? Longer MTO than the T72 \ 90 family

And so what? Are you not going to take the T-72 family case? So what’s longer and so what?

Quote: alexpro66

Since it is also longer than Msta’s and especially M109

I netnice richer than this phoase will often come))
And what’s the matter? Or are you going to put on the base MSTA or M-109?

Quote: alexpro66

Look at the picture with a single-barrel version - I posted it earlier

Repeat, I looked at your posts until September 23, I did not see a single-barrel one.

Quote: alexpro66

Epaulettes of the tower in front of the MTO and not above (over the back of the booth) That they did not tell me under the epaulettes of the designer)) can the tanks and the dry closet)))

Well, this vryatli reduces the length of the body, and just you do not like a favorite empty place

Quote: alexpro66

HAVE GOT THE SNAKE GORINYCH plus useless empty volume at the back

The same just before MTO

Quote: alexpro66

And what is the contradiction? Slightly elongated chassis with a modified arrangement of suspension nodes under the shoulder strap and MTO ..

In everything - as I wrote much earlier

Quote: Kars

, for each car huge modifications will be required

at the same time, the epaulette will be in the same place as the tank has a weak version. And it will be just a new building.

Quote: alexpro66

Something overturning Msta was not observed - if the mechanical driver is trained normally

But she is inclined to this, although her cent of gravity will be better than your layout. Although I can not even imagine what the weight will be in the end.

[alexpro66]

And so what? Are you not going to take the T-72 family case? So what’s longer and so what?

From the fact that I wrote to you earlier, the case will have to be lengthened back, due to the size of the MTO booth + CAPSULE + POGON + PLUS REAR PART VERY LONG BUD

I netnice richer than this phoase will often come))
And what’s the matter? Or are you going to put on the base MSTA or M-109?

Since you brought me an example with photo M109

Repeat, I looked at your posts until September 23, I did not see a single-barrel one.

My posts didn’t start from Sep 23, if you started trolling, dig more into them

Well, this vryatli reduces the length of the body, and just you do not like a favorite empty place

Why did you write this? Forgot what it is about? Trolling is growing?))

The same just before MTO

Not at all the same thing, the booth will not hang and due to the fact that in front only the capsule-length of the body will be less, even by 30cm, but this is not enough

In everything - as I wrote much earlier

There is no contradiction

at the same time, the epaulette will be in the same place as the tank has a weak version. And it will be just a new building.

The epaulette, by definition, will not be in the same place as the MBT body of the self-propelled guns, a little longer, respectively, the center of the epaulette will be shifted closer to the central heating

But she is inclined to this, although her cent of gravity will be better than your layout. Although I can not even imagine what the weight will be in the end.

All sau are inclined, due to the high center of gravity compared to the tank .. The weight of the chassis on the Armata platform is declared from 48 to 62 tons, depending on the product ..

[Kars]

Quote: alexpro66

the case will have to be lengthened back

And what? And how to lengthen it - if the hull will be built from scratch? Or do you mean to lengthen in comparison with the armature tank? With the T-90? And why lengthen back? Or maybe forward?))

Quote: alexpro66

MTO + CAPSULE + RUNNING + PLUS REAR PART VERY LONG BODY

But is this building a very long booth? And what will happen under the very long booth? If you say that everything will be in the tower?

Quote: alexpro66

Since you brought me an example with photo M109

So what?

Quote: alexpro66

My posts didn’t start from Sep 23, if you started trolling, dig more into them

Why do I need this? You reproached her, take the trouble to repeat it, especially if it was hell when.

Quote: alexpro66

Why did you write this? Forgot what it is about? Trolling is growing?))

He asked a question. And trolling - you are a solid troll. But funny.

Quote: alexpro66

Not at all the same thing, the booth will not hang and due to the fact that in front only the capsule-length of the body will be less, even by 30cm, but this is not enough

The same thing, and 30 cm for such as foolish little things are drawn, and not a fact.

Quote: alexpro66

There is no contradiction

continuous contradictions. you can see how modular you perceive it.

Quote: alexpro66

The epaulette, by definition, will not be in the same place as the MBT body of the self-propelled guns, a little longer, respectively, the center of the epaulette will be shifted closer to the central heating

Yeah, and where is what modularity? Can it be easier to say that it’s just a chassis sau, and not to fit armature?

Quote: alexpro66

All sau are inclined, due to the high center of gravity compared to the tank .. The weight of the chassis on the Armata platform is declared from 48 to 62 tons, depending on the product ..

Where is it declared and by whom? As for everyone, they are inclined - it’s not, not for everyone.

[alexpro66]

What do you want to prove to me that the caterpillar Coalition will be with the front MTO ?? KNOW ABOUT HER MORE? I brought you a photo of concepts, already a single-barrel coalition, all MTO behind. Read carefully-TK on self-propelled guns with rear MTO! I hope you understand the Cyrillic alphabet. The designers proved that such a scheme meets all the requirements of the customer — the MO — the customer has nothing against it. In the conditions of using standardized units. Units (including armored capsules into which control and monitoring systems are integrated, this is one of the main innovations of the modern platform) it is not advisable to use the scheme with front MTO Here's a photo transfer MTO FORWARD DO NOT FORGET ABOUT BRONECAPSULE and move the box back - what else do you need?

[alexpro66]

The same presentations for Rogozin - self-propelled guns with rear MTO-sorry photo does not want to go in the answers I will post separately at the end of the topic ..

[Kars]

Quote: alexpro66

an unified platform-frontal armor can not be hung up and without an armored capsule it is impossible to integrate the crew module — changes will be required that no one will do.

Well, how many millions of out-of-kind overpayment money? And without frontal armor, as a counterweight, with the aft MTO location, the tochnik will be dumped, I suppose it will also have to put openers on the stern. And even a booth - if it’s like a model, the case will be 10 meters long.

[Kars]

How harmonious is the high degree of unification with Germany’s MBT,
And then someone invents a bicycle trip (although the desire to arrange a peeling is understandable)

[alexpro66]

Nobody argues, handsome! In every way! Offer to copy or purchase? Well, with the degree of unification of the caterpillar Coalition (not only with the MBT, but with the entire line of heavy tracked vehicles), no one can compare! Something during the invention of Msta went by installing a booth on a slightly modified classic chassis of OBT-I, as it was not strange to miss! Probably all the same, it all depends directly on the designer, his ability to prove the viability of his product and its ability to fulfill the tasks assigned to it.
Msta-M is a vivid example of fluff of 52 caliber, but they ate worse than almost at parity with the German. And what is it worse? Outwardly, I like this tadpole more.

[alexpro66]

PHOTO Msta-M http://topwar.ru/uploads/images/2013/171/irmx184.jpg

[Kars]

Quote: alexpro66

Offer to copy or purchase?

Copy concept.

Quote: alexpro66

(not only with MBT but with the entire line of heavy tracked vehicles)

Why? Although yes, the extra-profit of UVZ is important.

Quote: alexpro66

- no one compares!

At least they would have reached the Paladin’s campaign, otherwise it wouldn’t be comparable - at least it might not be comparable.

Quote: alexpro66

OBT-AND NO STRANGE OVER!

Mediocrity and nothing more.

Quote: alexpro66

Msta-M a vivid example of fluff 52 caliber

How many years of 52-caliber downs have been armed and operated around the world, and how many Msta Ms are in service with the Russian army?

Quote: alexpro66

http://topwar.ru/uploads/images/2013/171/irmx184.jpg

what is this photo for?

[alexpro66]

Copy concept.

This is the lot of Ukraine.

Why? At least UVZ superprofits are important

Do not tell a stupid question!)) Well, yes, Ukraine would be pleased with the bankruptcy of UVZ? No doubt! Or do you think that the program only UVZ and allies are not?

At least they would have reached the Paladin’s campaign, otherwise it wouldn’t be comparable - at least it might not be comparable.

And since when did the Paladin become a highly unified pepelats ??

Mediocrity and nothing more.

Are you talking about Oplot? I agree!

How many years of 52-caliber downs have been armed and operated around the world, and how many Msta Ms are in service with the Russian army?

Counterquestion! How many Bastions in service with the great Ukraine ??

what is this photo for?

To the fact that with the rear MTO you can create excellent self-propelled guns

[Kars]

Quote: alexpro66

This is the lot of Ukraine.

I would not mind. And yours is seen reinventing the wheel.

Quote: alexpro66

Do not tell a stupid question!))

Naturally, it cannot be otherwise with your narrow-mindedness. The Russian Army is simply obliged to have a minelayer and BREM (and so on) on the basis of a tank which is not yet available when it will be adopted for service. And it’s UVZ production.
And thousands of armored objects under the autogen.

Quote: alexpro66

Well, yes, Ukraine would be pleased with the bankruptcy of UVZ? No doubt!

This could please the RF Ministry of Defense. But for us, what? All the same, thousands of second-hand T-72s are not going anywhere, as are the possibilities of the Russian Federation for crediting for the purchase of its weapons.

Quote: alexpro66

And since when did the Paladin become a highly unified pepelats ??

Since the US Army adopted the M 109. And this is just an example of REASONABLE ECONOMIC unification.

Quote: alexpro66

Are you talking about Oplot? I agree!

It’s strange where did the Oplot come from? But this is an indicator of how you envy the Oplot that it has become your fix idea.

Quote: alexpro66

Counterquestion! How many Bastions in service with the great Ukraine ??

This is not a question - this is tears)) of course, thanks for the great Ukraine, but all the same, the Russian Federation is the largest state in terms of area, which claims to be world leader and spends billions on its army.

Quote: alexpro66

To the fact that with the rear MTO you can create excellent self-propelled guns

when there is a need to put self-propelled guns on the finished tank chassis, but it still gets ersatz.

A classic self-propelled gun

[alexpro66]

I would not mind. And yours is seen reinventing the wheel.

Well, at the level of your awareness, this is the maximum that you could assume

Naturally, it cannot be otherwise with your narrow-mindedness. The Russian Army is simply obliged to have a minelayer and BREM (and so on) on the basis of a tank which is not yet available when it will be adopted for service. And it’s UVZ production.
And thousands of armored objects under the autogen.

Well, judging by the answer, your outlook is narrowed to the size of a molecule ..

This could please the RF Ministry of Defense. But for us, what? All the same, thousands of second-hand T-72s are not going anywhere, as are the possibilities of the Russian Federation for crediting for the purchase of its weapons.

Well, Ukraine has the opportunity to sell its scrap metal to Thailand - calling it the Bastion. Well, our creditworthiness does not upset me at all

Since the US Army adopted the M 109. And this is just an example of REASONABLE ECONOMIC unification.

Is that what you decided ???

It’s strange where did the Oplot come from? But this is an indicator of how you envy the Oplot that it has become your fix idea.

No, just a stupid statement that you received the corresponding answer ..

This is not a question - this is tears)) of course, thanks for the great Ukraine, but all the same, the Russian Federation is the largest state in terms of area, which claims to be world leader and spends billions on its army.

Good!!
It's my pleasure!
We do not want to feed someone else's army! (Historian)

when there is a need to put self-propelled guns on the finished tank chassis, but it still gets ersatz.
A classic self-propelled gun

Ersatz? )) Classic airplanes (for example) - airplanes with internal combustion engines and resembling a sewing machine - you will not see anywhere except the museum and the private collection. Classical self-propelled guns, just an example of an ersatz, whipped up with the use of tractors .. The time for classic equipment passes, a new modern one comes in, we are glad if our possible opponents remain adherents of the classics for as long as possible!)))

[Kars]

Quote: alexpro66

Well, at the level of your awareness, this is the maximum that you could assume

Well, of course, Mr. Skazachnik.

Quote: alexpro66

Well, judging by the answer, your outlook is narrowed to the size of a molecule ..

Compared to you, a molecule is a universe.

Quote: alexpro66

Well, Ukraine has the opportunity to sell its scrap metal to Thailand - calling it the Bastion. Well, our creditworthiness does not upset me at all

What say what they wanted?

Quote: alexpro66

Is that what you decided ???

They would work on the topic and would not ask such a stupid question, but you can only see from fairy tales.

Quote: alexpro66

No, just a stupid statement that you received the corresponding answer ..

And what exactly did Oplot remember?

Quote: alexpro66

We do not want to feed someone else's army! (Historian)

And for this you still do not have foreign-level self-propelled guns? Cool answer.

Quote: alexpro66

Ersatz? )))

Msta Yes, ertzats

Quote: alexpro66

we are glad if our possible opponents remain adherents of the classics as long as possible!)))

Are you glad? While having nothing at all except pictures?

[Kars]

___________

[alexpro66]

You don’t flip the arrows .. The first is where the pictures of the Coalition that you promised and the second is where you were going to place the booth on the chassis with the previous MTO ??

[Armata]

Quote: alexpro66

The first is where the pictures of the Coalition that you promised

I already said about this to the especially gifted.

Quote: alexpro66

and second, where were you going to place the booth on the chassis with the previous MTO ??

I’m not going to post anything anywhere. Again for the gifted. Our design bureau develops and manufactures stands and a conductor for manufacturing, but the rest are questions of Transmash designers (For reference, their design bureau is located in Ekat on the Front Brigades)

[nick-name]

Quote: Mechanic

Again for the gifted. Our kb designs and manufactures stands and conductors for manufacturing

So do you do tooling? Since when have fur technologists. began to devote to processing in the process of OCD? )))

[Armata]

Quote: nick-name

So do you do tooling? Since when have fur technologists. began to devote to processing in the process of OCD? )))

Do you understand the difference between rigging and stand? Apparently not.

[nick-name]

A jig is a snap-in, you say you make it, don’t you?
And no matter how, with what kind of technologist (designer) from the enterprise of the subcontractor they begin to devote to OCD?

[bask]

Quote: alexpro66

You don’t flip the arrows .. The first is where the pictures of the Coalition that you promised and the second is where you were going to place the booth on the chassis with the previous MTO ??

Yes, all modern self-propelled guns, with a front-mounted MTO.
Self-propelled guns K-9., Thunder ,, South Korea.
What is the problem with the front MTO.

[alexpro66]

The problem is critical only for the Coalition. The booth is fully automated in the same place, the booth is no longer under the booth, so the booth is very large with the ensuing consequences in the case of a rear MTO, review my posts, I have already unsubscribed on this issue ..

[Kars]

Quote: alexpro66

The booth is fully automated;

Like Thunder, not everything is automated.

Here is the last German - wherever you want to put the booth.

Quote: alexpro66

the box is very overall with the ensuing consequences in the case of rear MTO

So are you for the rear or front location?

[alexpro66]

Kars they decided to create a front MTO without me. By the way, about the front MTO TBMP - we tried to find a compromise, the TK spelled out the front MTO, but in this case TBMP seriously loses its protection in the frontal projection and gets a heavily loaded nose .. (the fault of the monoblock of the motor and transmission in the case of the rear MTO increases the body height and weight, but security be healthy! I wonder how this "incident" will end ??

[Kars]

Quote: alexpro66

to place the booth on the chassis with the previous MTO ??

And what are the problems? Here, in my opinion, the rear location of the MTO can cause problems.

Fritz with front MTO

[bask]

Quote: Kars

Fritz with front MTO

Of the modern ones, only the self-propelled guns, Msta S ,,. MTO in the stern.
How is it served? You can approach the MTO only by deploying a tower at 90 degrees.

[Alex 241]

Andryukh delete the photo, my antivirus is working, a malicious link, but it’s better to delete the whole post. Once again I checked: The photo contains a malicious link !!!!!

[Alex 241]

......................................................

[REZMovec]

People! Hare "break the spears" !! There will be a real "Armata" - we will argue, discuss, etc. etc. Aren't you tired of this idle chatter yet? The author, in my opinion, needs only the number of publications, but not their quality ... Or is it an order "from above" - ​​to distract people from their thoughts about their daily life.

[Bugor]

Here's what I like - no one really has information. Generally no. If this is the result of the work of the FSB or the lack of talkativeness among those who know, I shake hands with both.
But just as if it turned out to be the absence of a result (Armata) in principle ...

[scientist]

there are no fools to shine ip-shnik on the Russian server.

[Cynic]

Quote: Bugor

it wouldn’t turn out to be the absence of a result (Almaty) in principle ...

In principle, there is 195 product, everything else is its simplification.

[scientist]

Honestly, I don’t understand what could be secret in the appearance of the product. New technical solutions and the concept of "Armata" creation have been known for a long time.
I think the problem is that the military still can not determine exactly what they want due to a change of leadership. And the industry was tired of redoing products for free in accordance with the new Wishlist generals.

[Cynic]

Quote: scientist

Honestly, I don’t understand what may be secret in the appearance of the product.

All !

Quote: scientist

New technical solutions and the concept of "Armata" creation have been known for a long time.

So were they known? In particular, what decisions and to what extent Armata will correspond to this all known .
I don’t understand one thing, why everyone is waiting for something like this from a universal platform. A universal machine can never be at least comparable in parameters to a specialized one, by definition!

[Mairos]

"When the MTO is located in the front, the engine protects the crew at the cost of its own working capacity, which is why anti-tank ammunition with sufficient characteristics, without harming the crew, is able to immobilize the tank and make it an easy target." - it's better than such an ammunition "harm" the crew. Iron is not worth human life. We have very few of them.

[alexpro66]

Yesterday it seemed that they confirmed that 45mm (maybe two barrels at once !!) will be chosen for the Terminator-Armata, the gun is more ammunition than with 57mm .. but we can still wait that will change .. If Mouse-Atom finds buyers who knows maybe 57mm will go (this is purely my opinion)

[Armata]

Quote: alexpro66

Yesterday, they kind of confirmed that for Terminator-Armat 45mm will be chosen (maybe two barrels at once !!) the gun is more ammunition than with 57mm .. but we can also wait for that to change.

Who confirmed this? Terminator -Armata where such information? and why BMPT do on a heavy platform?

[alexpro66]

Everything will be on the platform ... And I’m not even going to buy the current Terminators-72 MO ..

[nick-name]

Quote: alexpro66

Yesterday, they kind of confirmed that 45mm would be chosen for Terminator-Armat (maybe two barrels at once !!)

What kind of weapon? Tape food?

[alexpro66]

I’ll clarify later, as long as I heard the conversation, I haven’t seen the pictures yet .. And I didn’t operate on the model names .. I dare to suggest from a previously heard new 45mm with telescopic ammunition This is a new tool that was originally planned for installation on Boomerang and Kurganets (in one of the options)
Most likely it will be 57mm long for urban conditions

[alexpro66]

Not sure if it? I took the photo from Khlopotov .. http://topwar.ru/uploads/images/2013/496/lkya900.jpg

[alexpro66]

Quote: alexpro66

Everything will be on the platform ... And I’m not even going to buy the current Terminators-72 MO ..

If I answer that the information from the DR believe ???)))

[labendik]

But does it exist at all?

[alexpro66]

Photo Msta-m

[voliador]

What to guess? They will show - we will see.

[alexpro66]

A photo of what is more or less similar to the Coalition (tracked)

[Kars]

Nda see some kind of problems with the servomechanisms. That the booth is so big get. Or Bk in 100 shells?))))

[alexpro66]

Unfortunately, I did not see the interior of the Coalition booth .. The only image floating on the network ??

[Kars]

Quote: alexpro66

The only floating image on the network ??

Image? I certainly apologize - but this is a PICTURE of fantasy on a self-propelled guns.
And nothing more))

[alexpro66]

No, this is for a single-barreled gun, not that many changes in the booth

[Kars]

This is also just a picture and nothing more.

[Michael_59]

Quote: Mechanic

Villages stewing is normal.

Have you seen gas pipelines burning? Creepy.
Oil refineries?
Ammunition depots are shown to everyone on TV regularly. A machine like this will come in handy, I’m sure it’s the right move.

[alexpro66]

They plan to roll out so much NEW equipment for the anniversary parade!! Yesterday we discussed how many technicians there are - something tells me that the 2015 Parade will be similar to the 1945 Victory Parade!

[andrey86]

There are so many disputes on this topic. Someone saw something somewhere, heard something or knows or guesses. I served in a test base, there were a lot of interesting things and there was an object on this topic, but I don’t presume to say that I know “what” in the end they will be adopted and whether they will be accepted at all.