Military Review

"Armata": reflections in anticipation of an open show

188
The exposition of the recent exhibition Russian Arms Expo-2013 was divided into two parts. All interested persons could familiarize themselves with a large number of samples and developments, and a number of promising projects were shown only to a limited number of persons with relevant permissions. What exactly was shown in the closed part of the exposition was not announced. Prime Minister D. Medvedev said that several new developments of the domestic defense industry were shown behind closed doors, which can take part in the Victory Parade already in 2015 year. In the meantime, information about this part of the exhibition can only be presumptive.


"Armata": reflections in anticipation of an open show


A few months before the exhibition, an active discussion began on the possible display of various new products. In particular, information appeared about the planned demonstration of the prototype. tank based on the heavy armored tracked platform Armata. Later it became known that this car will be shown at RAE-2013, but only representatives of the defense industry, the country's leadership and the Ministry of Defense will get access to it. The general public, in turn, will be forced to wait until permission to demonstrate the sample appears.

Heavy tracked platform "Armata" is one of the most interesting and yet mysterious projects of recent times. The development of the project began approximately in 2009-2010 years, but the details about the progress of work and technical features are still classified, and the amount of information available is small and often information contradicts each other. In this regard, there are various versions designed to answer existing questions. It is safe to say that a large part of the existing assumptions about the Armata platform will not be confirmed in the end. Nevertheless, in recent times a lot of new information has appeared that can help compile a plausible version of the status and details of the project.

20 August in Moscow, the exhibition "Day of the Ministry of Defense Innovation." At one of the event booths, in the closed part of the exhibition, mock-ups of equipment based on the Armata platform were shown. For some reason, for several hours after the end of the exhibition, photographs of these models were available to anyone. As follows from the available images, the Armata platform can become the basis not only for the tank. Probably in the near future there will be a tank bridge construction, a heavy flamethrower system and a minelayer on a single chassis. In addition, the photographs from one of last year’s events featured a model of some self-propelled artillery. It should also be noted that the existing models of machines based on the "Armata" can talk about the creation of a transport-loading machine for a heavy flamethrower system, an armored repair and recovery vehicle, and other types of equipment needed by the troops. It was previously stated that together with the tank in the early stages of the project a heavy infantry fighting vehicle unified with it would be developed.

Attempts to establish the details of the Armata project, according to information available in open sources, constantly face not only a shortage of information, but also problems of a different nature. So, when comparing the model of ACS with the models shown on the “Day of Innovations”, it is easy to see that the layouts have a number of serious differences. The interpretation of this fact turns into a separate complex task. It is possible to explain a different type of layouts both at different stages of the project, in accordance with which they were made, and by attempts of the developer organization and the Ministry of Defense to throw in disinformation. If the second version turns out to be correct, then the appearance of the tank and other vehicles based on the Armata platform may differ significantly from how it was presented on the basis of previously available information.

Bearing in mind the problems with the amount and reliability of information, we will try to establish the approximate appearance of an armored platform, which in the near future will become the basis for several types of combat vehicles. It is already known that the tank "Armata" has an unusual layout for the domestic armored vehicles of this class. First of all, it is necessary to note the original solution with a habitable volume, made in the form of an armored capsule. It will accommodate the entire crew of three, who with the help of a large number of instruments and controls will be able to monitor the environment and control various systems of the combat vehicle.

The crew capsule will be placed in front of the armored hull, behind the frontal part, providing a high level of protection. Due to this arrangement, the defeat of the tank from the front course corners is unlikely to lead to the death of the crew. In addition, tankers will be isolated from fuel and ammunition, which will increase their chances of survival. One of the most interesting questions in the light of the survivability of a combat vehicle is the location of the engine compartment (MTO).

The use of developments on the classic layout of the tank with the placement of logistics in the stern will not allow competently dispose of the internal hull volumes for the location of the troop compartment in the form of an infantry fighting vehicle. Thus, the Armata platform probably has an engine and transmission in front of the hull. This solution has both pros and cons. The first can be attributed to an increased level of crew protection, to the second - the loss of mobility in the event of a successful enemy attack. At the front MTO location, the engine protects the crew at the cost of its own performance, which is why anti-tank ammunition with sufficient characteristics, without harming the crew, can immobilize the tank and make it an easy target.

Disputes about the possible placement of MTO do not subside so far. Stop them can only publish official data on the project. Moreover, one cannot rule out such a scenario, in which disputes will not stop, but will turn into a new plane. For example, the public interested in military technology can start a discussion of the appropriateness of the applied solution.

There is information about the engine model intended for use in the Armata platform. This will be one of the modifications of the X-shaped diesel engine A-85 with power up to 1500-1800 HP. According to some sources, the power plant of the platform will allow the creation of combat vehicles weighing up to 65 tons with mobility at the level of modern domestic main tanks.

A-85-3 (sometimes referred to as 2А12-3, 12ЧНХNUMX / 15 or 16Н12)


Chassis prospective armored vehicles is one of the strangest and most ambiguous aspects of the entire project. There is no exact information even about the number of road wheels. According to the version common in the past, the Armata should have six rollers each on board. In the future, there was information about the elongated body and eight-rolling chassis. Finally, the models shown on the Innovation Day of the Ministry of Defense were equipped with seven rollers on board. Exact information about the type of suspension is not available.

Placing the entire crew of a combat vehicle inside a single volume with a high level of protection directly speaks about some other layout features. So, it is already known that the fighting compartment of the tank on the basis of the Armat platform will be made uninhabitable. This means that all operations related to the preparation for the shot will be carried out automatically. For this loading mechanisms, guidance, etc. must be done in such a way that they can independently carry out the commands of the crew located in the armored capsule. The main weapons tank "Armata" can become a smooth-bore gun 2А82 caliber 125 millimeters. According to its characteristics, this gun surpasses the latest modifications of the 2А46 launcher and is capable of using the entire range of its ammunition. Often, it is suggested that the promising tank will increase its firepower at the expense of the 152-mm 2-83 gun. A similar way of development of the modern main tank was tested during the 195 Object project and showed its advantages.

Amount of ammunition perspective tank depends on the size of the shots and the available volume of the fighting compartment. Thus, the capacity of the automatic loader can be estimated in 30-45 separate-sleeve ammunition caliber 125 or 152 millimeter.

Another consequence of the original layout of the tank is the need to create a new fire control system (SLA), capable of ensuring the combat operation of the tank with an uninhabited fighting compartment. It is assumed that the promising tank will receive a modern SLA, which will use the best practices on the latest projects in this area. In addition, it cannot be excluded that the Armata tank will receive a new information and control system that will monitor the operation and health of various components and assemblies, as well as interact with the SLA and communication systems. Currently, the most advanced of the domestic fire control systems is considered to be the Kalina complex, designed for the T-90CM tank. Probably, the developments in this MSA will be applied in the relevant parts of the Armata project.

Placing the crew in a single armored capsule may indicate that a tank based on the Armata platform will receive a developed system for monitoring the environment, equipped with a large number of video cameras. The basis of the sighting system of the tank will be multi-channel sights that can work at any time of the day and in any weather conditions. Also it is worth expecting that the tank "Armata" will receive a panoramic commanding sight, which is considered an essential component of the electronic equipment of a modern tank.

As you can see, at the present time it is possible to form a fairly plausible version of the appearance of a promising main tank based on the Armata heavy tracked platform. However, this is only an assumption based on fragmentary information and therefore the actual features of the project may - or even should - be different from it. The general informational situation around the project, including the possible distribution of misinformation, only contributes to this. You can check these or other guesses in only one way: compare them with a real combat vehicle. Here again the problem of secrecy arises. The first prototype of the Armata tank may have been shown in the closed part of the exposition of the exhibition Russian Arms Expo-2013, access to which was obtained only by the leaders of the country and the military department. The timing of the open demonstration of the new tank was not reported to everyone.

It is unlikely that a tank based on the Armat platform will be shown to the general public by the end of this year. Most likely, the "premiere" of a promising combat vehicle will take place only in the next 2014 year as part of an event. By that time, the first prototype of the tank should begin testing. According to the latest information on this, the delivery of the first production tanks "Armata" will begin in 2015 year. From this we can conclude about further work within the project. Probably, the Ministry of Defense and the organization-developer (Ural Design Bureau of Heavy Machinery - UKBTM) intend to test and fine-tune the new machine as soon as possible, and then launch its mass production.

Thus, in the first months of 2014, the premiere open demonstration of a new tank and materials about other vehicles based on the Armata heavy platform can take place. Then the customer and the executor of the project can publish information about the name of the promising machine. While there is no information on the index, which will receive the tank and other armored vehicles. Some time ago, information appeared in foreign media, according to which the equipment based on the Armata platform has the working names “148 Object”, “149 Object” and “152 Object”. There is still no official confirmation or denial of this information. The same situation is observed with troop indices: different sources state that the prospective tank will be called T-14 (by the year of its adoption), T-99 (by analogy with previous tanks), etc.

All assumptions about the new tracked platform can be confirmed or refuted only by official information. Hopefully, it remains to wait a bit and in the coming months, the Ministry of Defense and UKBTM will publish the first information about promising armored vehicles on the basis of a single tracked platform.

On the materials of the sites:
http://ria.ru/
http://interfax.ru/
http://vz.ru/
http://gurkhan.blogspot.hu/
http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-519.html
Author:
188 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. Civil
    Civil 30 September 2013 08: 59 New
    30
    Why these reflections, here comes into service, there it will be seen what and how
    1. svp67
      svp67 30 September 2013 09: 06 New
      25
      Quote: Civil
      Why these reflections, here comes into service, there it will be seen what and how

      I support, all these fortune-telling on the "coffee grounds" are already fed up. There may be many options for “Armata”, but “Armata” will be one, and when it is shown, then it will be possible to evaluate it ... And the fact that this does not happen makes us think a lot.
      1. PROXOR
        PROXOR 30 September 2013 09: 24 New
        +8
        But still, something is okay:
        Quote: svp67
        There is information about the engine model intended for use in the Armata platform. This will be one of the modifications of the A-85 X-shaped diesel engine with a capacity of up to 1500-1800 hp.

        Non-acid engine. Question about the weight of the new tank. We also go on a campaign along the path of creating heavy machines.
        1. Hudo
          Hudo 30 September 2013 09: 37 New
          12
          Quote: PROXOR
          Non-acid engine.

          The X-shaped engine is a type of star-shaped ICE, with all its shortcomings. A design flaw of a star engine, for example, is the possibility of oil flowing into the lower cylinders while stationary, and therefore, before starting the engine, make sure that there is no oil in the lower cylinders. Starting the engine in the presence of oil in the lower cylinders leads to water hammer and breakage of the crank mechanism.
          The operation of such an engine in the troops will require a higher level of training of MVs and remotors.
          1. PROXOR
            PROXOR 30 September 2013 10: 15 New
            10
            Quote: Hudo
            The X-shaped engine is a type of star-shaped ICE, with all its shortcomings. A design flaw of a star engine, for example, is the possibility of oil flowing into the lower cylinders while stationary, and therefore, before starting the engine, make sure that there is no oil in the lower cylinders. Starting the engine in the presence of oil in the lower cylinders leads to water hammer and breakage of the crank mechanism. The operation of such an engine in the troops will require a higher level of training of MVs and remotors.

            Well, what for the operation. and even more so for military operations, you need a professional crew is not in doubt.
            About the X-shaped engine. I think the problem is being solved. Let me remind you that star engines were used in aviation as early as the 1st World War. The same engines that Douglas DC3 used on the Sherman tanks and tank destroyers M18 Hellcat. It is not necessary to make a single scroll before starting there.

            PySy: There is another engine in which oil can leak during prolonged parking. An engine with counter pistons, mounted on a T-64 tank. As we know, there were no problems with this engine by the end of the production of the tank.
            1. Alekseev
              Alekseev 30 September 2013 20: 43 New
              +8
              Quote: PROXOR
              There is another engine in which oil can leak during prolonged parking. An engine with counter pistons, mounted on a T-64 tank.

              Where does this oil leak into the engine? winked
              Yes, even with "long parking" laughing
              Do not confuse horseradish with your finger and come up with problems that are not.
              And real constructive and technological problems are enough.
              And about an excess of oil in the 5TDF diesel crankcase, they can report the following: it (oil) appears in the crankcase as a result of unsuccessful attempts (which is not uncommon for 5TDF, 6TD, especially if it is cold, the battery is a little tired and there is little air) to start the engine. MZN pumps it there, but there is no effective pumping by a gear oil pump into the oil tank, because The engine will not start. After several attempts, it is possible to pump the crankcase so that it will not be possible to complete the piston stroke and, accordingly, crank the crankshaft.
              Then the m / in climbs under the bottom, opens the hatch and drains the oil through a special fitting.
              And backwaters in a new way ... laughing
          2. Andriuha077
            Andriuha077 30 September 2013 16: 23 New
            +2
            "in the presence of oil in the lower cylinders leads to water hammer"

            In ancient times, for this, before starting, they screwed the screw, or manually turned the plugs in the nozzles and drained. Of course, on all more or less modern automated for a long time.
        2. svp67
          svp67 30 September 2013 09: 39 New
          +4
          Quote: PROXOR
          Non-acid engine. Question about the weight of the new tank. We also go on a campaign along the path of creating heavy machines.
          Good afternoon. Well, there’s nowhere to go, this is a necessary measure, but sooner or later an easy car will be created, because we need to protect a large territory, and different equipment is needed ...
          1. PROXOR
            PROXOR 30 September 2013 10: 18 New
            +4
            Quote: svp67
            Good afternoon. Well, there’s nowhere to go, this is a necessary measure, but sooner or later an easy car will be created, because we need to protect a large territory, and different equipment is needed ...

            What nonsense. In the 50s we abandoned two branches of tanks in favor of a single. As a result, the T-64 appeared in 64m. Why split again. Most likely they won’t do anything like that. I will close the light category with the new BMP of the Kurganets project.
            1. vladkavkaz
              vladkavkaz 30 September 2013 10: 26 New
              +6
              Tank Support (BMPT) “Terminator-2” will be created in the future on the “Almaty” platform. According to RIA Novosti, Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin said in an interview with Russia-24 television channel.

              According to him, the world premiere of BMPT-72 ("Terminator-2") is taking place at an exhibition in Nizhny Tagil.

              D. Rogozin noted that for the first time the idea of ​​creating a BMPT was born on the basis of experience in conducting military operations in the North Caucasus, in particular, on the basis of the experience of the storming of Grozny, when Chechen separatists burned a lot of heavy armored vehicles. “Then the idea of ​​creating a BMPT arose, which could neutralize the threat to the actions of tanks in the city. We will continue to improve it (the car), ”added the Deputy Prime Minister of the Russian Federation.

              REFERENCE

              BMPT-72 is a revolutionary modernization of the world famous tank Uralvagonzavod T-72. When designing the BMPT-72, the experience of creating and using the BMPT, which for its firepower was called the "Terminator", was taken into account.

              Like the basic model, Terminator-2 is able to effectively solve the tasks of fire support of tanks and infantry in all types of combat operations, in complex geographical areas, at any time of the day, against any enemy. Differences from the previous model: improved fire control system and security of the combat module of the tower.

              The main advantage of the BMPT-72 is that, created on the "seventy-two" platform, it gives a unique opportunity to all the countries of the world that are armed with the most massive T-72 tank of the world, to quickly and cost-effectively strengthen the armored component of the armies.
              Based on this, what do we have?
              A set of different purpose machines, but capable of operating in a single system, the gain is impressive.
              Another question is when all this is in metal, in the states and in the troops.
              1. PROXOR
                PROXOR 30 September 2013 10: 35 New
                +3
                Quote: vladkavkaz
                According to him, the world premiere of BMPT-72 ("Terminator-2") is taking place at an exhibition in Nizhny Tagil.

                And where then is the contract for the purchase of these machines? Kazakhstan already bought it. And here again they are waiting for a rooster which ... will bite.
                1. Armata
                  Armata 30 September 2013 10: 56 New
                  +6
                  Quote: PROXOR
                  Kazakhstan already bought it.
                  Kazakhstan bought on the T90 platform.
              2. IS-80
                IS-80 30 September 2013 10: 41 New
                +2
                Quote: vladkavkaz
                The main advantage of the BMPT-72 is that, created on the "seventy-two" platform, it gives a unique opportunity to all the countries of the world that are armed with the most massive T-72 tank of the world, to quickly and cost-effectively strengthen the armored component of the armies.
                Based on this, what do we have?
                A set of different purpose machines, but capable of operating in a single system, the gain is impressive.
                Another question is when all this is in metal, in the states and in the troops.


                That's when they bring to mind the BMPT, then we can talk about something.
                They’ll put a normal set of weapons and put them in normally, leave the optimal number of crews, make normal body armor, active and dynamic protection, where necessary, a normal SLA with maximum visibility of the entire hemisphere and create a normal theory of its use in the army.
                1. vladkavkaz
                  vladkavkaz 30 September 2013 18: 56 New
                  +2
                  IS-80
                  My friend, how can you check the car, if not, no experienced drills or training staff?
                  Few conflicts in which to break in the car?
                  A normal body armor - what do you mean, something like a tank for armoring? And why? Is this machine designed to act in front of the tanks?
                  MSA-agree, we need the latest.
                  The optimal set of weapons, and what exactly do you have under this, what1 set and what should be the name?
                  Let's say ATGM-4 pieces, obviously not enough, especially in battle to change when leaving the car ... problematic, Guns-30mm, maybe more than-45-57mm caliber.
                  But after all, all this must be checked on the realities, and not in party meetings and advertising, right?
                  But this is a great problem .....
                  1. IS-80
                    IS-80 1 October 2013 09: 06 New
                    0
                    Quote: vladkavkaz
                    A normal body armor - what do you mean, something like a tank for armoring? And why? Is this machine designed to act in front of the tanks?


                    Well, BMPT is designed for combat in the battle formations of tanks.

                    Quote: vladkavkaz
                    The optimal set of weapons, and what exactly do you have under this, what1 set and what should be the name?


                    But this is a big question. smile In my opinion, there should definitely be a 45 mm gun and 4 rockets. But what else is a very interesting question.

                    Quote: vladkavkaz
                    Let's say ATGM-4 pieces, obviously not enough, especially in battle to change when leaving the car ... problematic


                    The main goal of the BMPT is to combat infantry, lightly armored vehicles and helicopters. Why make it MLRS?

                    Quote: vladkavkaz
                    But after all, all this must be checked on the realities, and not in party meetings and advertising, right?
                    But this is a great problem ...


                    First you need to think carefully and analyze everything. And then here a whole bunch of specialists and not a very whole MO have no clear idea of ​​what, where, how and why, and you are going to check.
                    1. Prosha
                      Prosha 2 October 2013 09: 36 New
                      0
                      The main goal of the BMPT is to combat infantry, lightly armored vehicles and helicopters. Why make it MLRS?

                      Sorry, maybe we have new trends, but for this there are infantry units on the BMP. I think that the BMP-3 can very well cope with this kind of tasks and there is no need to fence in the garden, if you want to replace tanks with BMPT, then you should say and think on this issue with the involvement of various experts and practitioners with combat experience. Sinful, initially, too, was delighted with such a cute machine, and then began to think ... why? IMHO except for spraying and so not very large funds for rearmament, more to nothing (hidden budget cut)
                      1. sscha
                        sscha 5 October 2013 13: 28 New
                        0
                        There is an opinion, and it has the right to live, that:
                        1. T-90 - for reasons it is considered by our "defense industry" as a machine for export, India, Peru, Azerbaijan. Kazakhstan, etc. Well, for operating time and replenishment of the treasury. By the way, Terminator-2 is in this line, due to the prevalence of its base in the world - T-72.
                        2. Modifications of the T-72 - a temporary measure to maintain the combat effectiveness of the Ground Forces will be taken into service as a necessary measure.
                        3. "Armata", "Kurganets", "Boomerang" - the main platforms on the basis of which BMPO-T- (heavy), BMPO-S (medium), BMPO-K (wheeled) will be developed, in turn. ( BMPO - fire support combat vehicle). Accordingly, artillery systems based on platforms with their own graduation caliber, TTX, etc. and other vehicles (support, engineering, reconnaissance, infantry, etc.) hi
              3. gunnerminer
                gunnerminer 30 September 2013 12: 28 New
                +1
                BMPT-72 is a revolutionary modernization of the world famous tank Uralvagonzavod T-72.





                How can modernization be revolutionary? Another Rogozin campaign like hypersonic bombers or Serbian battalions in the Russian army.
            2. Hort
              Hort 30 September 2013 11: 39 New
              +5
              so the division is, in fact, not in the form of evolution of tank building, but interrupted by the decision of Khrushchev. Therefore, it was necessary to refine the medium tanks to the level of MBT, figuratively speaking.
              So far, the crowns of the creation of TT remain, perhaps, IS-7, T-10M and "Object 279".
              True, only the T-10M was serial. It seems that even somewhere in the Far East they are on conservation in the size of a regiment
          2. jasper
            jasper 30 September 2013 18: 28 New
            0
            wheeled self-propelled guns, no? hi
        3. Igor39
          Igor39 30 September 2013 15: 54 New
          +2
          There is an engine. Where is Armata? laughing
          1. alone
            alone 30 September 2013 22: 20 New
            0
            Quote: Igor39
            There is an engine. Where is Armata?


            laughing Give everything to the table at once)))
        4. Donvel
          Donvel 30 September 2013 19: 21 New
          0
          Heavy tanks have proven themselves better than the AMX-13 or Leopard-1, so this is the right way.
        5. mirag2
          mirag2 1 October 2013 09: 38 New
          0
          The engine for the usual magpie.
    2. Rustam
      Rustam 30 September 2013 11: 13 New
      +2
      These drawings are left these fortunetelling - it is clear that the prototypes are presented, the main thing is they are presented and this is not a myth and not fiction

      add a couple of years to break-in, fine-tuning and testing - the first photos will appear then we'll talk

      In the meantime, you can talk about the samples presented - there were a lot of interesting things
      1. bask
        bask 30 September 2013 13: 32 New
        +4
        Quote: Rustam
        while you can talk about the presented samples - there were a lot of interesting things

        What, for example?
        SPG ,, Coalition ,, single-barrel and wheeled chassis. And perhaps everything. Photo ,,, Coalition ,, someone lay out, please !!!!
        And most importantly, the contracts for the supply of the Russian army, BMPT-2, self-propelled guns, Msta-S, Coalition, T-90MS BMP-3M, SU, Octopus-SD, were not signed with the Ministry of Defense.
        The army until at least 16 years old, without modern armored vehicles and artillery remained ....
        Mo Shoigu did not visit the military exhibition, what is not interested in the Russian military-industrial complex and its products? For whom was the exhibition held, for Hindus, Negroes, Arabs?
        1. Rustam
          Rustam 30 September 2013 14: 48 New
          +5
          bask for example?
          Self-propelled guns, coalition, single-barrel and wheeled chassis


          And was it) like no, I said earlier that with the Kamazovsky chassis this is unreal
          Good modernization of the same T-72, armored Urals, French control systems and optics, etc.

          The army itself doesn’t want to order advanced samples such as modernized Tigers with DUMV, BMP 3m, T-90MS and so on - they all takethen why the hell can you take

          an example for the same Tigers who are going with class 3 - they are told to order with class 5 or 6 -they are not Do you need air conditioning? -soldiers inappropriately
          , order a step to make it easier to climb-it's too much
          Then maybe mine seats with head restraints? and why?put the usual
          and loopholes in the windows? -don't let the transom open completely and on top arrow protection is needed? -Lord why do we have Duncans Maclauts not but you give us smoke grenades repeat -Sometimes it seems that in MO alone are dumb

          and there was something to see

          photo (clickable) TIGER + Nekster -ARX 20 thing, but I think in our army this kind of good is not seen
          1. bask
            bask 30 September 2013 18: 09 New
            +2
            Thanks for the info ... Rustam.
            About the self-propelled guns ,, Coalition ,, posted, because Makhanik, said that she was at the exhibition. And even shot once.
            Quote: Rustam
            an example for the same Tigers who go with the 3rd class - they are told to order with the 5th or 6th class of protection - they don’t, do they need air conditioning? - soldiers don’t have to sweat

            All this is sad. Again gentlemen from the Moscow Region, they are not going to save the lives of soldiers ...
            And in an armored car, as in weapons, there are no trifles. And the footboard should be (yes even not slippery) comfortable mine seats, loopholes for firing from a car, a thermal imager, remote-controlled DBM weapons.
            As soon as we pull out the SONS GOS .. CHINUSH, from abroad and force to serve in the Russian army, everything you write about will be procured. Moreover, in the maximum configuration ....
            And like the bourgeois BAE Systems. The armored car RG-35, a multi-purpose vehicle, with reinforced mine and ballistic protection at the level of MCI.

            1. Rustam
              Rustam 30 September 2013 18: 32 New
              +2
              bask (5)
              Thanks for the info ... Rustam.
              About the SPG ,, Coalition ,, posted, because Makhanik


              Didn’t you see Kamaz on the chassis, maybe in a closed show? And can it be that KamAZ somehow presented any novelties that we discussed in the summer nothing grandiose, can there be an exposition at Polytech 13?

              but about the fact that the Russian Defense Ministry itself takes the minimum, it’s not only for the Tigers, but also for tanks and infantry fighting vehicles

              The same infa that was on a possible order for the BMP-3-so they also plan everything there at a minimum, no French sight, no kondeya, no extra protection on the sides, no curtains

              Of course, I understand that everyone is waiting for Almaty, Kurganets and Boomer, but if you take it, take it so that it is for people
              1. bask
                bask 30 September 2013 18: 52 New
                +4
                Quote: Rustam
                Of course, I understand that everyone is waiting for Almaty, Kurganets and Boomer, but if you take it, take it so that it is for people

                Before the series ,, Armata ,, Kurganets ,, Boomerang ,, still need to survive.
                And most importantly, the PRICE of these products will be (as I think) 2-3-times more expensive, similar to the T-90, BMP-3, BTR-80.
                And how much then will the MO buy new armored vehicles?
                When in the Defense Ministry, soldiers will become primarily people, everything will change. As an example, the army of the Tsakhal. Everyone serves from the son of a minister to a simple hard worker.
                Now, this is patriotism in action !!!!
                PS: KAMAZ did not present its products at the exhibition, for political reasons. Maybe I'm wrong.
                1. Armata
                  Armata 30 September 2013 18: 57 New
                  +5
                  Quote: bask
                  Before ,, Armata ,, Kurgan ,, Boomerang ,, still need to survive.
                  And most importantly, the PRICE of these products will be (as I think) 2-3-times more expensive, similar to the T-90, BMP-3, BTR-80.
                  And how much then will the MO buy new armored vehicles?
                  When in the Defense Ministry, soldiers will become primarily people, everything will change. As an example, the army of the Tsakhal. Everyone serves from the son of a minister to a simple hard worker.
                  Now, this is patriotism in action !!!!
                  Hi comrad. They have a country like half of our region, and we have a large country and more workers. So no one will notice the absence of sons of ministers and deputies.
                  1. bask
                    bask 30 September 2013 19: 26 New
                    +3
                    Quote: Mechanic
                    no one will notice the absence of sons of ministers and deputies

                    Good evening Eugene.
                    They will send to serve in Dagestan or Ingushetia, they will immediately notice.
                    1. Armata
                      Armata 30 September 2013 19: 30 New
                      +4
                      Quote: bask
                      They will send to serve in Dagestan or Ingushetia, they will immediately notice.
                      Naive. You got a lot of bullets from the sons of ministers? winked
                      1. bask
                        bask 30 September 2013 20: 06 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Mechanic
                        th. You got a lot of bullets from the sons of ministers?

                        Not one.
                        He operated, only who got into an accident (small bureaucrats), but even those already had fingers in a fan. wassat
                      2. Armata
                        Armata 30 September 2013 20: 09 New
                        +2
                        Quote: bask
                        Not one.
                        He operated, only who got into an accident (small bureaucrats), but even those already had fingers in a fan.
                        good They do not bend in another way, or rather they do not bend, the phalanges grew so without joints. laughing
                      3. bask
                        bask 30 September 2013 20: 18 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Mechanic
                        tsya, or rather do not unbend, the phalanges grew so without joints.

                        A head without brains.
                        One soap, wherever, what to stick.
                        Zhenya on the topic, all the same self-propelled guns, "Kaolitsiya," on the tracked or wheeled chassis at the exhibition was. If this is not a secret infa ....
                      4. Armata
                        Armata 30 September 2013 20: 20 New
                        0
                        It was. And even banged 1 times.
                      5. bask
                        bask 30 September 2013 20: 27 New
                        0
                        Quote: Mechanic
                        It was. And even banged 1 ra

                        Got it, infa ... classified. Thanks hi
                      6. alexpro66
                        alexpro66 30 September 2013 20: 37 New
                        +3
                        What secret?? The day before yesterday, the mechanic wrote
                        It's not a secret. I can post it, but only on Monday. I do not have a program with a camera on my beech.

                        What has changed in two days ?? Or was it only the mechanic who managed to see and flip the Coalition ?? Yes, and see how she fumbled !!
                        And on what chassis is it a Mechanic ?? If the gusli MTO still spread ?? Here is a prototype of the Coalition-SV AT 195 chassis where were you going to put the booths back ?? There aren’t so many differences with the Coalition. IT HAS A LITTLE-SOMETHING SHORT
                      7. Armata
                        Armata 30 September 2013 20: 38 New
                        0
                        Whence such knowledge?
                      8. alexpro66
                        alexpro66 30 September 2013 20: 40 New
                        +1
                        Not from you for sure ..
                      9. The comment was deleted.
                      10. Armata
                        Armata 30 September 2013 20: 48 New
                        -6
                        Quote: alexpro66
                        Not from you for sure ..
                        Well, that’s what I understand. Chezh as a Jew ?. You were asked a specific question.
                      11. alexpro66
                        alexpro66 30 September 2013 20: 49 New
                        +1
                        You too .. Where is the photo ??))
                      12. Armata
                        Armata 30 September 2013 20: 53 New
                        +1
                        Quote: alexpro66
                        You too .. Where is the photo ??))
                        I repeat for the gifted. So far they do not give to lay out what is for official use. I hoped that I could, but not yet.
                      13. alexpro66
                        alexpro66 1 October 2013 15: 59 New
                        +1
                        Well, yes! Stupid talk about secrecy began)))) You just couldn’t see anything and even more so click off -that and the whole story ..
            2. The comment was deleted.
            3. The comment was deleted.
        2. alexpro66
          alexpro66 2 October 2013 19: 03 New
          0
          Have you seen or only heard? If you have heard an excellent rumor, you can distinguish Msta’s thump from the Coalition !! Respect!)))
  • Rustam
    Rustam 30 September 2013 19: 05 New
    +3
    bask (5)
    When in the MO, the soldiers will become primarily people, everything will change


    If they will, I will again be for delivery to the army Ivek in a larger number

    we’ll continue about the sad thing — in VV, the same picture is mainly taken by the armored Urals in the booth, they order wooden benches — this is normal, let the fighter beat off everything before going out so that he doesn’t sleep — I don’t know, some of the military-industrial complex also have wooden benches and waking up

    for the same armored vehicles for a long time offer additional armor panels in the same 82a - no one needs

    my position is this and always has been, if you take new equipment you need to take it to the maximum so that people are comfortable and comfortable and additionally safe

    The position of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation on the Tigers with Grade 3 — they go for special forces and they don’t need more cash desks anyway — they will burn

    here in the photo - order a stand to make it easier to climb in and out - the answer is Voluntarism

    OK, WE WILL NOT BE ABOUT SAD
    1. bask
      bask 30 September 2013 19: 32 New
      +1
      Quote: Rustam
      wooden benches is okay let the fighter beat off everything with a tailbone before going out so that he doesn’t sleep, I certainly don’t know that some of the military-industrial complex also normally set up wooden benches and

      And the booth is still lined with plywood sheets (which would burn better).
      Quote: Rustam
      OK, WE WILL NOT BE ABOUT SAD

      Rustam agrees, maybe for the better, something will change.
      Chinese clone RG-31BAE Systems. From South Africa, it is necessary to do a joint venture.
  • avt
    avt 30 September 2013 15: 46 New
    +1
    Quote: bask
    Mo Shoigu did not attend the military exhibition, what is not interested in the Russian military-industrial complex and its products?

    But this is already an internal politician in the lineup at the helm of the authorities. In Russian, it’s an indicator of their specific kid’s stocks and it’s good that they didn’t beat the arrow and didn’t fill each other up. Probably GDP taxed the arrow on the phone laughing
  • Prosha
    Prosha 2 October 2013 09: 45 New
    +1
    excuse me, but the question is debatable, if the Defense Ministry finds out about new weapons and armored vehicles at exhibitions, then the price is worthless, but the question of signing contracts is completely reasonable, when declaring the army was massively re-equipped, zero loading of defense enterprises makes one wonder - this is misinformation and again, "noodles on the gracious ears of taxpayers." and the exhibition is just needed for buyers from the outside.
  • eplewke
    eplewke 30 September 2013 11: 17 New
    +3
    If they don’t show it, then there are reasons for that! Just the look and layout is a secret. Take for example the T-90SM? If the armata will be better than him, then I am satisfied! Give a new Russian T-34 ...
  • Volkolak
    Volkolak 30 September 2013 15: 06 New
    +9
    Quote: Civil
    Why these reflections, here comes into service, there it will be seen what and how

    All this flood about "Almaty", "Kurgan", "boomerang" has been going on for several years, and things are still there. "Bulava" - it doesn’t fly, some strange modernization of the T-72 at a crazy price, They either buy BMP-3, or they don’t. Strange infa went about the T-50, God forbid the truth. “Boreas” and “Ash” will not be accepted, and much more is happening to the defense industry. They can’t stick together the Serdyukov’s affair. It all smacks of large-scale diversion, or if you want sabotage. They started to “reform” in Ukraine too. You can write me down in “all-pro-fans” or “all-adversaries” as you like, but, as my very close friend says: “Well-balanced paranoia is a very useful thing when it comes to security.”
  • jasper
    jasper 30 September 2013 18: 27 New
    0
    modular system? placing the engine crew? depending on configuration? different number of rollers?
  • mirag2
    mirag2 1 October 2013 09: 32 New
    0
    Do you know what scares you the most? What turns out to be that this Armata is no different from object 195 ...
  • Rus_87
    Rus_87 30 September 2013 08: 59 New
    +9
    Ufff ... already a million times they discussed the alleged image of Armata, what she would be, etc. And to be honest, it’s a little fed up ... Let's wait silently for Armatushka, then we'll talk about how.
  • velikoros-xnumx
    velikoros-xnumx 30 September 2013 09: 02 New
    +1
    Yes let the fog with Armata. Either they really do not want to prematurely shock the international community with a promising domestic tank, or until the final appearance of the machine has been formed and there is nothing special to show. Although I belong to the category of stubborn optimists, I nevertheless consider the second version more likely recourse .
  • MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 30 September 2013 09: 08 New
    +6
    We will survive with this "Armata" the Chinese are stealing (if they have not stealed "...
  • erased
    erased 30 September 2013 09: 13 New
    +4
    When they show, then we will evaluate. If only they would not tighten. Like Boomerang and Kurgan.
    1. cosmos111
      cosmos111 30 September 2013 09: 23 New
      +5
      The article is not about anything. Solid if ....
      One question? The platform has already been shown to the Indians, why not show at least photos, platforms.
      The 5th generation fighter T-50 showed .And there are much more technological secrets.
      1. Russ69
        Russ69 30 September 2013 10: 12 New
        +2
        Quote: cosmos111
        The 5th generation fighter T-50 showed .And there are much more technological secrets.

        They showed when he was ready. as well as “Armata”, what is the point of showing what has not yet been done. Most likely they will show when the tests begin not on a separate platform, but on a full tank. it will also be with the Boomerang and the Kurgan.
        Rogozin yesterday, in a program with Solovyov, vowed that all this equipment would be at the 2015 parade ...
        1. cosmos111
          cosmos111 30 September 2013 10: 35 New
          +7
          Quote: Russ69

          They showed when he was ready. as well as “Armata”, what is the point of showing what has not yet been done.

          Now, in this I agree with you, there is nothing to show.
          Quote: Russ69
          Rogozin yesterday, in a program with Nightingale

          In my Rogozin, just a demogog. His words are like in a saying (he gave his word, he took it).
          O. D. Rogozin would have sworn, in the year 15, there will be no “Armata”: I give a hand or a better language to clipping am .That is then, this is an oath, and so simply hollow.
          1. Russ69
            Russ69 30 September 2013 13: 16 New
            +1
            Quote: cosmos111
            OO Rogozin would have sworn, in the year 15, there will not be, “Almaty”: I give a hand or, better, the tongue for clipping

            Here in the 15th year and check, what for in advance to declare something. And it will be, there won’t be Armata, it will be clear in a year for sure. do not wait long left.
          2. Prosha
            Prosha 2 October 2013 09: 53 New
            0
            OO Rogozin would have sworn, in the year 15 there wouldn’t be, “Almaty”: I give my hand or better my tongue for clipping. That's then, this is an oath, and it’s just idle talk.

            Do you need another individual who lies on the rails? laughing
          3. alexpro66
            alexpro66 2 October 2013 19: 34 New
            0
            I already wrote that there were statements about the open show in 2013 — there were all the prerequisites for this — until the subcontractors in the form of a concern with the excellent Russian name “Schwabe” and something else had failed ... And everything is fine under contracts with the MO, therefore Moscow Region doesn’t bother, everything should be done before the end of next year Vina Rogozina, of course, is there, she’s hurried, but again I’ll repeat all the crocodile tears on the Internet and the press about the failure of OCD Armata, are just ridiculous.
  • Dimy4
    Dimy4 30 September 2013 09: 24 New
    +6
    It’s to blame that it’s not the topic, but still about our technology "... the Proton launch vehicle launched the EUROPEAN communication satellite into orbit ..." Apparently Protons are allergic only to domestic satellites, they need to be treated.
  • Nitarius
    Nitarius 30 September 2013 09: 25 New
    +2
    Well, how can you ride THROUGH EARS THAT ???
    how much the "EFFECTIVE MANAGERS" divorced today --- we must already take the STICK and beat along the spine! to work and not scratch their tongues. TFU ...... yo ... These are military ali women of Ryazan .... too .. too much talk
    1. cosmos111
      cosmos111 30 September 2013 09: 35 New
      +2
      Quote: Nitarius
      was called "EFFECTIVE MANAGERS" --- it is necessary at

      The more effective managers will revolve around this project, the more government funds will go. Time for the manufacture and adoption of weapons, armored vehicles and MBT ,, Armata ,,,
    2. fennekRUS
      fennekRUS 30 September 2013 15: 38 New
      +2
      Who should work? only managers remained ..
  • Kostya77
    Kostya77 30 September 2013 09: 33 New
    +9
    The whole article is solid — if only ... Tanks, based on the history of tank building, are not built in a year or two, so it really seems like there is nothing to show and boast about, except for layouts, inventing incredible abilities for them. I think it's time to buy a T-90AM, let a limited number (240-320 pieces), but it is necessary
  • marat1000
    marat1000 30 September 2013 09: 38 New
    -5
    beautiful dviglo ... It’s better if they just let out the engines, otherwise they can’t make a tank for many years, shame ... Especially considering that many components of foreign production, in fact, have been developing some kind of platform for 10 years. Ahahaha, shame
    1. Evgeny_Lev
      Evgeny_Lev 30 September 2013 10: 06 New
      10
      Well, if the design and construction of such a sophisticated technique as a tank is “shame” in your Fsenenaya, then what can you say about your occupation?
      In theory, you should have been, having been consistent, having run away for a long time, and put your head on the wall in order to stop your arch-shameful existence.
  • major071
    major071 30 September 2013 09: 46 New
    +5
    Good morning everybody! In relation to "Almaty", there have indeed been a lot of rumors lately in the media and on the Internet. I myself read recently that the crew of the car will consist of 2-x people (mechanic and commander, he is also a gunner). Anything can be expected. The main thing is that the car would turn out to be really new and superior to foreign ones. And most importantly, it entered the troops, and did not remain in single copies, as often happens with us.
  • Boot under the carpet
    Boot under the carpet 30 September 2013 09: 58 New
    +1
    Quote: Civil
    Why these reflections, here comes into service, there it will be seen what and how

    I don’t understand why talk about adopting without starting any tests.
  • smiths xnumx
    smiths xnumx 30 September 2013 09: 59 New
    +3
    When the Ministry of Defense stated that they would not buy new equipment (T-90, BMP-3, BMD-4, etc.) because conceptually new platforms (Armata, Kurganets, Boomerang) would soon come into service - it was wrong. Too optimistic, or something. Because "soon" is a loose concept in development. This is normal - something does not work out, the deadlines are shifting.
    And to sit for several years without orders for new equipment, limiting itself only to repair and modernization of equipment with HF - is bad for the military-industrial complex. It is clear that I wanted to avoid a repetition with several different MBT in service, but in vain. In the end, releasing at least fifty new tanks and infantry fighting vehicles per year - over the past few years this would amount to several hundred vehicles. And as new cars arrive on new "platforms" - they could be transferred to "secondary" directions, or even exported at a discount.
  • Gur
    Gur 30 September 2013 10: 20 New
    +1
    I don’t know if they don’t order, they know what they’re doing, they have surprises with us but not so much
  • Rash
    Rash 30 September 2013 10: 27 New
    +1
    Photo of Almaty in the studio!
    1. vlad_pr
      vlad_pr 30 September 2013 12: 24 New
      0
      As one acquaintance of mine, a woman with a "lowered bar of social responsibility," said, "Do not scamper under the client, otherwise he will sweat and slide off." Let's have patience, not long left, as with Ukraine.
      Sincerely.
  • Sergey Medvedev
    Sergey Medvedev 30 September 2013 10: 59 New
    +1
    A lot of fog was let in. We must wait until the car is still shown.
    1. dievleha
      dievleha 30 September 2013 11: 24 New
      +3
      The mechanic on this site, and he is an expert, said that there will be no armata for 5 years. All his statements have been confirmed, so they don’t show because there is nothing to show. Mechanic  September 16, 2013 09:22

      Quote:

      Russia refused to buy T90 in any trim levels. Now we are waiting for Armata (which by the way will not be in the next 5-7 years)
      1. alexpro66
        alexpro66 2 October 2013 15: 50 New
        +1
        Songs about the absence of Armata "expert" The mechanic intercepted from Khlopotov who sang it much earlier. And most importantly, if the Mechanic and others did not see anything, this does not mean that there is no MBT .. You will save this post until next year, then we'll see what he sings)))
  • chunga-changa
    chunga-changa 30 September 2013 11: 08 New
    +4
    What can I say, preparation for the past war reached its climax.
    Something tells me "Armata" will not become MBT the next ten years and fifteen. This is not a modernization of the mastered tank by replacing the sighting system. There is really a new, unmatched layout, with which no one has encountered any diseases and their treatment. And what surprises will present daily operation in the army, you can not guess at all. In general, they will then write in the memoirs "born in agony". The main thing is not entirely clear the modern concept of the use of tanks by Russia, and in this light the relevance of the solutions used in the “arm”. But in the foreign market, it will obviously sell well.
    1. Evgeny_Lev
      Evgeny_Lev 30 September 2013 14: 38 New
      +4
      If you don’t understand the concept, take a look at the map of Russia. Estimate its sizes, compare with the number of forces necessary for the conquest. And state the optimal combat unit, which would be the basis for the advancement of the breakthrough forces, as well as the security forces of the troops.

      I will say right away that all these tales about the changed concept of waging war, bullshit, are in our database theater.
      There is a brainwashing of the average man by focusing on the relatively insignificant, sabotage measures that existed in ALL known wars and were of TACTICAL importance.

      ps Look at the example of Syria, in which slippers only do what they cry "give anti-tank weapons," "prohibit the use of heavy weapons," etc.

      So with all this, in the framework of the standards of decency to unfamiliar people, I have to admit the presence of a significant share of nonsense in your words.
      1. chunga-changa
        chunga-changa 30 September 2013 15: 44 New
        +2
        The concept of use determines the necessary parameters of equipment that the military informs the developers. For example, if the military intends to restrain the advance of the enemy mainly in marshy areas, the most important thing is cross-country ability and the possibility of swimming. If in the desert, we assume protection from dust, if in the mountains we allow the possibility of vertical take-off. What you have described is not a concept, and from looking at a map of Russia it does not appear. The concept appears when looking at a map of Mongolia, and when looking at a map of Luxembourg, the concept of a completely different tank appears. Obviously, you are poorly guided even in what you write, for example, “our DB theater” is that what are the characteristic features, just don’t write again “look at the map”, as they say, take a look. About tactical importance, combat is the use of tactics in nature, whoever has the most perfect wins, although it may be that you personally win fights by the power of your thoughts, I don’t know. About conquest, this is generally beyond the border, I hasten to inform that no one is going to conquer Russia. The goal is to dismember Russia with subsequent political and economic subjugation of the most significant territories, they are going to do all this and will not do it by military means. The hot phase is now being worked out in Syria, when the country's combat capabilities are undermined by the forces of various separatists and occur almost without the participation of the armed forces of third countries. Maximum Air Force participation, see Libya. About the immutability of the concept of war at "our database theater." If you haven’t noticed, the Baltic States, Ukraine, Moldova, the Caucasus and Central Asia have already been lost at our DB theater, and the grouping of troops in eastern Europe has been defeated. This is a modern war, and that war about which you fantasize ended in 1991. If you think that all this “happened by itself” and is not related to the database, fantasize further.
        1. Evgeny_Lev
          Evgeny_Lev 30 September 2013 16: 43 New
          +1
          About the concept, the dimensions of a theater of war - reading you, it seems that you are an adherent of the idea, which implies for each relief and composition of the terrain (well, or region of the Russian Federation) to have its own kind of main combat unit. I think this, you understand, is impossible. And in the context of what you said about crushing, etc. is a kind of manifestation of this very "doctrine" of fragmentation, only on a different, not political, but actual level.
          How are you going to form a reserve, interaction and unification with such a varied approach to technology?
          About tactics - we are not considering the geopolitical state of affairs, but directly, the fighting, otherwise, then, where does the tank? I will say even more, the quality and quantity of armaments and the preparation of the army as a whole, VERY seriously affect the "games" of politicians. And in this case, it’s better with tanks than without them, regardless of whether you consider them a vestigial or not.
          1. chunga-changa
            chunga-changa 30 September 2013 21: 33 New
            0
            I did not write that tanks should be made different, or they should not be made at all. I write that the war is now different, and whether the “armata” is suitable for the conditions of this new war, or is it necessary to reconsider the concept of the tank in its current form.
            For example, a cannon is sharpened to fight against enemy equipment, but the last time it was used for this is almost 20 years ago, for example, it makes no sense for Americans to modernize what is, and so everything works fine. Now other problems are being solved with the same cannon, but to combat the infantry it has excess muzzle energy and, as a consequence, low survivability, and for urban conditions the projectile is not powerful enough. It may be necessary to arm the tank with a 152-180-mm low-ballistic weapon, and to combat armored objects with fighter-controlled rocket-propelled ammunition or mounted separately on the armor. The main tank fighter on the battlefield will be guided weapons (they learned how to deal with RPGs) launched from the ground and aircraft, and this and that is sharpened to defeat from above, therefore, the resistance of the upper hemisphere must be increased, and so on almost all issues. Requirements for the tank change quickly, therefore, the modularity of weapons, armor, protection, target designation and guidance systems is needed. This is the article about "different tanks for different conditions."
    2. alexpro66
      alexpro66 2 October 2013 23: 46 New
      0
      Basically, everything was worked out for 195 with the exception of electronic aiming ... and automatic fire control
  • sashka
    sashka 30 September 2013 11: 18 New
    +2
    A snapshot of the layout does not indicate its presence in the metal. I'm tired of all this hatred .... Build, install, set up production. Everything else. Glory to the "great." Do not be like "esaul" and "grishka (john) three-volt"! Kyu ..
  • USNik
    USNik 30 September 2013 11: 31 New
    +1
    The same articles on Armata stably appear once a week. The trend however. Although this set +, for the picture A-85-3.
  • Kars
    Kars 30 September 2013 12: 01 New
    +6
    It is likely that in the near future there will be a tank bridge, a heavy flamethrower system and a mine layer on a single chassis.


    Without going into technical details on this fact, the emerging drank is already visible ..
    To create special vehicles on the chassis of a promising tank, when thousands of armored vehicles with unspent resources are in service with the Russian Federation is a waste of money.At the same time, one chassis for such a set simply will not work, huge modifications will be required for each vehicle, especially considering that they are still going to do artillery self-propelled guns, and TBMP. Unification of nodes is even less clear, but this is not about the campaign.
    1. alexpro66
      alexpro66 30 September 2013 15: 15 New
      -1
      What does huge alteration mean ??? You are not familiar with the concept of modularity or you did not play Lego in childhood ?? Do not judge our designers by your abilities ...
      1. Kars
        Kars 30 September 2013 15: 32 New
        +3
        Quote: alexpro66
        that means huge alterations ??? You are not familiar with the concept of modularity or you did not play Lego in childhood ?? Do not judge our designers by your abilities ...

        I am familiar with the principle of modularity. But you are not)))

        Although not - you are aware of the design of the Armata tank, you have insider information))))
        1. alexpro66
          alexpro66 30 September 2013 15: 43 New
          -1
          Evidence in the studio about your acquaintance with the principle of modularity !!! Where is your evidence ???
          1. Kars
            Kars 30 September 2013 15: 54 New
            +3
            Quote: alexpro66
            Evidence in the studio about your acquaintance with the principle of modularity !!! Where is your evidence ???

            This is said by a clown who does not want to prove anything himself.))
            Considering the modularity principle in the BTT, considering the period from the end of the 20th century, the French were the first to serially apply in armor protection. Now the modularity of weapons has become widespread. and those campaigns are not on a scale.
            1. alexpro66
              alexpro66 30 September 2013 16: 01 New
              +1
              Well, you do not become like me, do not be a clown, and prove your knowledge in the principle of modularity - can you have any certificate or God forbid a diploma! Show!
              1. Kars
                Kars 30 September 2013 16: 12 New
                +1
                Quote: alexpro66
                Well, you do not become like me, do not be a clown, and prove your knowledge in the principle of modularity - can you have any certificate or God forbid a diploma! Show!

                Why should a clown prove something? A clever person, from what I wrote, would understand that I am familiar with the general concept of foolishness. And are you sure that there are certificates on the principle of modularity? And also tell me that UVZ received them? In fact, from the models and conversations it turns out that UVZ is going to milk the Russian Defense Ministry until it turns blue, while the cost of the same paver will be in the region of 70% of Armat's MBT, which is quite possible to surpass the cost of the Korean Black Panther. And the artillery sau will have a lot of restrictions, and even the American can surpass it paladin.
                1. Cynic
                  Cynic 30 September 2013 19: 01 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Kars
                  Why should a clown prove something?

                  Hmm.
                  Honest, I read your comments and can not get rid of deja vu

                  One to one.
      2. The comment was deleted.
        1. alexpro66
          alexpro66 30 September 2013 19: 29 New
          +6
          First, I don’t know who Mr. Smirnov is and I didn’t turn to him with complaints! I remember you somehow bravorously gave me a joke on my correct comment on your comment, hinted at sanctions
          So ... think before you "get in" .... it’s too big .. out of ignorance

          the moderator sent me warnings about what a distinguished and heroic person you are in your years and how respectfully I should communicate with you (and you can communicate with me however you want)) the next day my rating dropped from 600 that way to minus 3 thousand and There were restrictions on the number of posts per day. The PM unsubscribed to me in a forum member asked where so many minuses came from, I outlined the situation and that’s all .. Did I answer you correctly and respectfully ??
          Further .. I didn’t pour anything on the Mechanics (and the like) (by the way, I like the likes more than the likes of you, don’t be rude) - I'm sorry, he lowered himself to it ... He expressed his point of view, I blamed my own in lies and fables, and somehow he argued this in his posts, the forum users supported my point of view, others supported the Mechanic. After reading his comments, you will see that he has no arguments against my arguments .. that it’s my fault that he drove himself into a corner .. I asked him to stop fantasizing several times, to no avail. We, in principle, under the same conditions with the Mechanics only succeed so that my "fables" are better. What prevented the Mechanic from describing the access and regime scheme to Armata - this is not a secret .. he just didn’t know this while the grass stories. How do I know if he works at UVZ as a locksmith, but certainly not with Armata.
          Not enough of my arguments, so Khlopotov gave his assessment, it's hard to argue with him.
          If you thought that I work in the protocol service of the DM and measure the time, you were mistaken, I didn’t detect it, but it was something like that .. (but what would change if it was there for 25 minutes 32 seconds ???) Anyway, it’s for the drum .. pieces of iron ..
          Well, stay with your opinion. There is no Armata. There is no Armata. Everyone decides for himself. What is repeated, re-read my posts there is enough said. For some reason, I’m not indifferent to the fate of MBT and I have the opportunity to spend time on the forum and it’s a shame when the same respected Khlopotov bears a lot of foolishness (for his reasons) about Armata, so I decided to support Armata a bit on your forum (especially when I saw the Mechanics posts) )).
          And the most interesting thing is that YOU are so furious? - Argument your (and the Mechanic including) statements at least somehow, and then probably I would be where you indicated above
          In the meantime, everything shows the opposite. And do not cherish the hope that the writings of the Mechanics will be justified, he will simply breed you- His one statement about the previous MTO MBT will simply show everything very soon ..
          With the same HUGE disrespect hi
          1. Armata
            Armata 30 September 2013 19: 34 New
            +2
            Quote: alexpro66
            I didn’t pour anything on the Mechanic (and others like me) (by the way, I like people somehow more like people like you — they don’t be rude) - sorry, he lowered himself into it ... He expressed his point of view, I accused him of lying and fables, and somehow all the same, he argued this in his posts, some forum users supported my point of view, others supported the Mechanic. After re-reading his comments, you will see that he has no arguments against my arguments .. that it’s my fault that he drove himself into a corner .. I asked him to stop fantasizing several times, to no avail. We, in principle, under the same conditions with the Mechanics only succeed so that my "fables" are better. What prevented the Mechanic from describing the access and regime scheme to Armata - this is not a secret .. he just didn’t know this while the grass stories. How do I know if he works at UVZ as a locksmith, but certainly not with Armata.
            Not enough of my arguments, so Khlopotov gave his assessment, it's hard to argue with him.
            If you thought that I work in the protocol service of the DM and measure the time, you were mistaken, I didn’t detect it, but it was something like that .. (but what would change if it was there for 25 minutes 32 seconds ???) Anyway, it’s for the drum .. pieces of iron ..
            Well, stay with your opinion. There is no Armata. There is no Armata. Everyone decides for himself. What is repeated, re-read my posts there is enough said. For some reason, I’m not indifferent to the fate of MBT and I have the opportunity to spend time on the forum and it’s a shame when the same respected Khlopotov bears a lot of foolishness (for his reasons) about Armata, so I decided to support Armata a bit on your forum (especially when I saw the Mechanics posts) )).
            And the most interesting thing is that YOU are so furious? - Argument your (and the Mechanic including) statements at least somehow, and then probably I would be where you indicated above
            In the meantime, everything shows the opposite. And do not cherish the hope that the writings of the Mechanics will be justified, he will simply breed you- His one statement about the previous MTO MBT will simply show everything very soon ..
            That is, you know all the points of TK and access systems in the shop. Good. Tell me how to at least get to the uvz subcontractors in a personal car and where to enter the factory? And yes, give me the 19.7 19.8 points from TK to Armata separately. I immediately say that I don’t know everything, but according to their specialization they somehow provide everything.
            1. alexpro66
              alexpro66 30 September 2013 19: 45 New
              +1
              You at the pass office - they will explain everything there ..)))
              1. Kars
                Kars 30 September 2013 19: 47 New
                +2
                Quote: alexpro66
                You at the pass office - they will explain everything there ..)))

                And what problems to answer?
                For example, I'm interested.
                1. Armata
                  Armata 30 September 2013 19: 52 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Kars
                  And what problems to answer?
                  For example, I'm interested.
                  I will answer you dear. I have a month pass. The pass is done on average 3 days. Well, I’m just curious to find out where the pass office is located and how to apply
                  1. alexpro66
                    alexpro66 30 September 2013 20: 08 New
                    +1
                    Well, you also didn’t cheerfully tell us how the admission to the security territory is adjusted ?? I assumed that you are a simple hard worker at UVZ at the carriage production .. well, in the worst case, an engineer ..
                    1. Armata
                      Armata 30 September 2013 20: 11 New
                      0
                      Quote: alexpro66
                      Well, you also didn’t cheerfully tell us how the admission to the security territory is adjusted ?? I assumed that you are a simple hard worker at UVZ at the carriage production .. well, in the worst case, an engineer ..
                      Yes Yes. In general, I have an indirect relation to UVZ. Read attentive fool
                      1. alexpro66
                        alexpro66 30 September 2013 20: 18 New
                        +2
                        Yes, how much you can make up for stupidities - all who work directly or indirectly with Armata KNOW the admission procedure .. Stop stirring up the water .. you even haven’t heard about it from the bottom of your ear ..
                      2. uwzek
                        uwzek 2 October 2013 21: 11 New
                        0
                        Calm down! The mechanic does not work at the UVZ, it is quite possible, has a sideways relation to the production of tanks (maybe not), he is definitely interested in this topic. Those working with Armata do not always know the admission procedure: they have been admitted to work with classified documents for a long time, and access to the plant provides a regular pass.
                        Cars from the armata project in metal are available, they do not have any similarities with models from the Internet, they will ride at the fifteenth year parade. Believe me, for "some!" our comrades have Armata, like the Olympics in Sochi ...
                    2. alexpro66
                      alexpro66 30 September 2013 20: 20 New
                      +1
                      Yes, today you promised pictures of the "Coalition" What software fails again ???
                    3. Armata
                      Armata 30 September 2013 20: 26 New
                      +1
                      Quote: alexpro66
                      Yes, today you promised pictures of the "Coalition" What software fails again ???
                      You know if they allowed everything that they showed in the morning 25, before 13-00 I would have posted it. And so it's not about software, it's about leadership. Victoria doesn’t allow (people who know me for a long time even saw a picture of this FSB). You know when you are unobtrusively approached at work and are advised to just not download anything from the worker.
                2. Kars
                  Kars 30 September 2013 20: 13 New
                  +1
                  Quote: alexpro66
                  I assumed that you are a simple hard worker at UVZ

                  Wow, and when it’s a simple robots issued a pass for a month)) As I see it with logic and with a sense you are offended))
                  1. alexpro66
                    alexpro66 30 September 2013 20: 19 New
                    -1
                    Yes, Kars is so offended that it has already changed two handkerchiefs ..))) I just sob ..
                  2. Armata
                    Armata 30 September 2013 20: 22 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Kars
                    Wow, and when it’s a simple robots issued a pass for a month)) As I see it with logic and with a sense you are offended))
                    Fair. This is just a boy deprived of female attention. Here he sits and sublimates. But I’m just wondering what else she’ll say. And note the friend. He doesn’t answer a single question, he constantly goes into a scumbag drinks
                  3. Kars
                    Kars 30 September 2013 20: 27 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Mechanic
                    It's just a boy

                    I'm not sure about the boy. but I wouldn’t refuse to look at his IQ test
                  4. Rustam
                    Rustam 30 September 2013 23: 24 New
                    +8
                    Guys you arrange here :( finding out who is cooler and higher
                    All the same, respectful to each other

                    One knows one thing and gives metered information, the other also something (probably) from this and some kind of picture comes out, for example, I know little about Armata, but it’s also interesting

                    We didn’t see the Coalition (on the Kamaz chassis) but I knew before that there were problems on the Kamaz chassis and how it will be fired from this chassis is not known?

                    I need to argue, I also argue, but you should not go over to personality.
                  5. Prosha
                    Prosha 2 October 2013 10: 51 New
                    +1
                    It is gratifying to see another sane person! ... as they say in modern Russian-RESPECT wink
  • Flooding
    Flooding 8 October 2013 20: 55 New
    0
    Quote: vaf
    You can once again rejoice in Mr. Smirnov for being dropped into your skulls ...

    Not sure if you are right.
    I personally turned to Fantast on this issue without any requests from alexpro66.
    Because I’m sure that “lowering into the skulls” is an ugly occupation.
    Especially for people who are confident in their innocence.
  • fero
    fero 30 September 2013 12: 05 New
    +8
    I will minus all articles about Armata until I see her photo. Tired of reasoning, worse than the bitter radish, about it is not known what.
    Z.Y. I know that in the article and about the x-shaped engine it is written, but the title of the article causes a persistent allergy.
  • Samy
    Samy 30 September 2013 12: 06 New
    +5
    "Several new developments of the domestic defense industry that can take part in the Victory Parade as early as 2015."

    Is that such an indicator? Do the technique before the parade for the parade? Strange very "target designation."
  • Antibrim
    Antibrim 30 September 2013 12: 06 New
    +1
    Armata is good, but no one has information on the t-80? it will be gradually in the wild? after running out of resources?
    1. MrFYGY
      MrFYGY 30 September 2013 12: 16 New
      +2
      They speak of "storage base". The sad ending for such a machine.
    2. PROXOR
      PROXOR 30 September 2013 12: 20 New
      +1
      Quote: AntiBrim
      Armata is good, but no one has information on the t-80? it will be gradually in the wild? after running out of resources?

      Unfortunately yes. By 2020, in addition to Armata, T90 of various modifications and the remnants of T72 of deep modernization should remain. With the development of anti-tank weapons, the T80 lost its main advantage. His speed now does not solve. Again, the point in speed if fuel carts will lag all the time. If the concept of Armata is implemented, then in addition to its direct focus, it will immediately block the T80 responsibility area. With an engine of 1500-1800l.s. even with 65 tons of live weight, it can easily move up to 100km / h.
      1. Antibrim
        Antibrim 30 September 2013 13: 00 New
        +2
        it’s unfortunate that friends who were tankers say that 80 will be better, 72 that are unfortunately bad in many ways, for example, were stolen in Novobosirsk, half of the walkie-talkie did not work, charging devices and much more. and these tanks taught future tankers. t 80 were in the best condition. and why they need fuel, they need to steal less, officers are all on diesel cars, I think for an obvious reason. tankers unfortunately suffer, but for now the armata will be able to upgrade to 80, because if 90 is not enough, I don’t say anything about armature when it’s enough.
  • Agent 008
    Agent 008 30 September 2013 12: 19 New
    +4
    "ARMATA" is like alien spaceships, everyone is talking about them, but no one has seen ...
  • tank 34
    tank 34 30 September 2013 12: 51 New
    0
    It is interesting to the Ural Design Bureau that there is enough conscience to admit that they actually did not create the tank themselves, but took the ideas and developments of the promising KHMB tank A. Morozov from the early 74s of the last century.
    1. nick-name
      nick-name 30 September 2013 16: 44 New
      +4
      It is interesting to the Ural Design Bureau that there is enough conscience to admit that they actually did not create the tank themselves, but took ideas and developments from the Stone Age and use round-shaped wheels laughing
      1. Armata
        Armata 30 September 2013 16: 46 New
        +1
        Quote: nick-name
        It is interesting to the Ural Design Bureau that there is enough conscience to admit that they actually did not create the tank themselves, but took ideas and developments from the Stone Age and use round-shaped wheels
        They didn’t come to complain. Design of KBTM and Omichi. For the most naive. Omsk Design Bureau has long been part of UVZ.
        1. nick-name
          nick-name 30 September 2013 16: 49 New
          0
          Quote: Mechanic
          They didn’t come to complain. Design of KBTM and Omichi. For the most naive. Omsk Design Bureau has long been part of UVZ.

          Please clarify the meaning of your phrase
          1. Armata
            Armata 30 September 2013 16: 58 New
            +1
            Quote: nick-name
            Please clarify the meaning of your phrase
            I explain. The development of a promising ball platform was done by two design bureaus Ural TransMash and the Omsk Institute. The Institute of Metal Testing and the Scientific impoverishment "Damask" also take part. And here only the Urals? We never attributed laurels to ourselves.
            1. nick-name
              nick-name 30 September 2013 17: 09 New
              +2
              Delaaa ... Well, let's point by point, we understand armature as a promising platform? If so, what does Omsk and Transmash have to do with it? Omsk, the last thing that was done was a hull, a transmash based on the tank’s chassis makes a chassis for self-propelled guns. NTIIM how sideways it got here is not at all clear, this is a purely artillery training ground, and has nothing to do with the development of the BChT warhead. What is Bulat? I don’t know, please enlighten what kind of office it is and what it does? And since such a drunk went, why don’t you mention the All-Russian Research Institute of Transmash?
              1. Armata
                Armata 30 September 2013 17: 15 New
                +2
                Let's go point by point. With UVZ, an extremely weak research institute. The project involved KB Trans Masha and Omichi. In those days, Omsk needed orders extremely. At the test site, the properties of armor and tilt angles are tested (so for reference, tell me what kind of test site and where it is?) After the GDP decided to collect all the plants under one UVZ, all the laurels took UVZ. Try to refute.
                1. nick-name
                  nick-name 30 September 2013 17: 31 New
                  +1
                  And you are funny laughing
                  Nusss, let's go)))
                  1. At UVZ (I mean the plant itself, which is on Lining), there is no research institute, neither weak nor strong. There are several design bureaus of the plant itself and there is UKBTM, which is part of the UVZ corporation. If you called UKBTM “Extremely weak research institute” ... then this is a diagnosis. fool
                  2. Transmash makes the chassis for self-propelled guns, since there are their own specific requirements. Omsk is not involved in business at all. And why do you keep silent about the leading institute of the industry ???
                  3. About the NTIIM training ground it’s generally a song laughing Incidentally, he is located in the village "Staratel", it is next to NT. You as a specialist probably know who the developer of the "armor and tilt angles" are being tested there? wink
                  1. Armata
                    Armata 30 September 2013 17: 43 New
                    +1
                    Quote: nick-name
                    At UVZ (I mean the plant itself, which is on Lining), there is no research institute, neither weak nor strong. There are several design bureaus of the plant itself and there is UKBTM, which is part of the UVZ corporation. If you called UKBTM “Extremely weak research institute” ... then this is a diagnosis.
                    UKBTM is the Ural Design Bureau of Transport Engineering. What is your address? My dad has been working there for 30 for years.
                    Quote: nick-name
                    . Transmash makes the chassis for self-propelled guns, since there are their own, specific requirements. Omsk is not involved in business at all. And why do you keep silent about the leading institute of the industry ???
                    It has long been doing not only the chassis, this is for reference. The truth is now doing trams instead of self-propelled guns.
                    Quote: nick-name
                    About the NTIIM training ground, this is generally a song, by the way, it is located in the village of "Staratel", it is next to NT. You as a specialist probably know who the developer of the "armor and tilt angles" are being tested there?
                    So then he is in Nizhny Tagil. Directly behind Nicolo Pavlomsky (from Eburg in a straight line, right after moving along which ammunition is being transported to the landfill). This is one of the areas of NT.
                    Quote: nick-name
                    And you are funny
                    I have very bad humor.
                    1. nick-name
                      nick-name 30 September 2013 21: 26 New
                      0
                      Quote: Mechanic
                      My dad has been working there for 30 years already.

                      So they would ask Bati what the department of 11 UKBTM is doing, and not post nonsense about the running from Omsk wink
                      Quote: Mechanic
                      I have very bad humor.

                      Yes, it seems not only with humor ... no
                      1. Armata
                        Armata 30 September 2013 21: 30 New
                        +1
                        Quote: nick-name
                        So they would ask Bati what the department of 11 UKBTM is doing, and not post nonsense about the running from Omsk
                        And so nothing that now is one KB with Ekat? And what kind of department? There are design teams, but the departments only deal with copying and archiving, but yes there is also a quality department, a customer department. There is one thing but, they are not involved in the construction negative
                      2. nick-name
                        nick-name 30 September 2013 21: 48 New
                        0
                        Quote: Mechanic
                        And so nothing that now is one KB with Ekat?

                        UKBTM - one KB with Ekat? Is Transmash visible? You are drunk???
                        Quote: Mechanic
                        And what kind of department?

                        Well, your dad has been working there for 30 years, ask him wink
                        Although you can not strain, you have already shown your level of awareness. laughing
                      3. Cynic
                        Cynic 1 October 2013 13: 40 New
                        +1
                        Quote: nick-name
                        UKBTM - one KB with Ekat? Is Transmash visible?

                        I look here the humor has gone, black, you can even say the blackest.
                        You will stipulate among themselves what to call. And then on the fly you get naughty from the names of KB Transmash, Omichi. Here by name, there by registration.
                        What is the difference, everything is now under UVZ.
                      4. nick-name
                        nick-name 2 October 2013 09: 35 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Cynic
                        I look here the humor has gone, black, you can even say the blackest.

                        Not even humor, the black race went wink ETOGES it was necessary to write down the artillery range in the developers of the new platform))) And the rest is brain juice
  • Papania
    Papania 30 September 2013 13: 34 New
    +2
    Saw 70-80 percent of the bobos, and then cheerfully report, sorry it didn’t work out
    1. Donvel
      Donvel 30 September 2013 19: 31 New
      +4
      And this is an option! They will hang some rangefinder on the T-72B and proudly say - "here is a new modification for the Russian army!"
  • Sirs
    Sirs 30 September 2013 14: 13 New
    0
    An armored tank will definitely not be inferior to modern tanks of other leading countries, and I want a 152 mm gun to stand.
    1. alone
      alone 30 September 2013 22: 23 New
      +3
      what But can immediately put 203mm-vuyu?
  • pawel57
    pawel57 30 September 2013 14: 55 New
    +1
    Quote: tank 34
    It is interesting to the Ural Design Bureau that there is enough conscience to admit that they actually did not create the tank themselves, but took the ideas and developments of the promising KHMB tank A. Morozov from the early 74s of the last century.

    Is it necessary to rush? Why Armata? There is no ideal weapon, even a nuclear one is not perfect.! For 10-15 years, you can certainly safely fight on modernized tanks. No one has a fundamentally new one. Of course, this does not mean not creating a new one. A lot of screaming about bmpt. T72 without a powerful gun turret. Why did you decide that in special conditions it will be a reliable support for tanks? It will also burn if you do not train people to fight. In the steppes of Ukraine and Russia, yes, the BMP will work well. Slightly special conditions and without infantry are a good target. Vicious circle. Place a 57mm zen gun on it, Zen. missiles, equipment for detection and operation in the air defense system and maybe it will pay off. They would have given Assad a long time ago and run in a local war.
  • alexpro66
    alexpro66 30 September 2013 15: 21 New
    -1
    ! Water on the water! In this article I would put a plus sign http://warfiles.ru/show-39532-noveyshiy-rossiyskiy-tank-prodemonstrirovan-v-oche

    n-uzkom-krugu.html
    Well logically collected everything that floats on the Internet ..
    And here is the author
    "The use of developments in the classic layout of the tank with the placement of the MTO in the stern will not allow you to competently dispose of the internal volume of the hull for the location of the airborne compartment in the infantry fighting vehicle variant. Thus, the Armata platform probably has an engine and transmission in front of the hull .."
    on the basis of his knowledge of armored vehicles makes such a conclusion for all chassis on the Armata platform! What to say - MINUS!
  • alexpro66
    alexpro66 30 September 2013 15: 53 New
    +1
    Quote: VOLKOLAK
    Quote: Civil
    Why these reflections, here comes into service, there it will be seen what and how

    All this flood about "Almaty", "Kurgan", "boomerang" has been going on for several years, and things are still there. "Bulava" - it doesn’t fly, some strange modernization of the T-72 at a crazy price, They either buy BMP-3, or they don’t. Strange infa went about the T-50, God forbid the truth. “Boreas” and “Ash” will not be accepted, and much more is happening to the defense industry. They can’t stick together the Serdyukov’s affair. It all smacks of large-scale diversion, or if you want sabotage. They started to “reform” in Ukraine too. You can write me down in “all-pro-fans” or “all-adversaries” as you like, but, as my very close friend says: “Well-balanced paranoia is a very useful thing when it comes to security.”

    Everything is simple! It came to the presidents, ministers, generals that you can’t create new and good for three kopeks and without modern or modernized production and technology, and with the last one we have some ass ... yes still personnel !! so nothing incomprehensible happens - everything is clear!
    1. Armata
      Armata 30 September 2013 18: 55 New
      +1
      Quote: alexpro66
      Everything is simple! It came to the presidents, ministers, generals that you can’t create new and good for three kopeks and without modern or modernized production and technology, and with the last one we have some ass ... yes still personnel !! so nothing incomprehensible happens - everything is clear!
      And where did Armata come from?
      1. alexpro66
        alexpro66 30 September 2013 19: 22 New
        0
        And what do you not understand the difference what it is to build the heels of prototypes and what is the mass production of thousands of machines ??? Well, you ask questions !!))
        1. Armata
          Armata 30 September 2013 19: 27 New
          +3
          Quote: alexpro66
          And what do you not understand the difference what it is to build the heels of prototypes and what is the mass production of thousands of machines ??? Well, you ask questions !!))
          And UVZ imprisoned for what? Maybe their paths do experimental cars?
          1. alexpro66
            alexpro66 30 September 2013 19: 41 New
            +2
            And where does UVZ ?? Is he building a prototype of himself ?? AND MAKES ACCESSORIES AND BLOCKS AND UNITS FOR ALL 100 PERCENTS SOMETHING PRODUCTION OF MICROCHIPS OF CERAMICS ITD POLYMERS I DO NOT SEE ON THE LIST TO UZS ?? That there are no allies ??? The question to which I answered concerned not only UVZ but the entire defense industry
            and much more is happening with the defense industry ..

            HER GOD MECHANIC WHAT HAPPENS TO YOU ??? I don’t even know how to comment on your questions ..)))
            1. Armata
              Armata 30 September 2013 19: 44 New
              +4
              Quote: alexpro66
              And where does UVZ ?? Is he building a prototype of himself ?? AND MAKES ACCESSORIES AND BLOCKS AND UNITS FOR ALL 100 PERCENTS SOMETHING PRODUCTION OF MICROCHIPS OF CERAMICS ITD POLYMERS I DO NOT SEE ON THE LIST TO UZS ?? That there are no allies ??? The question to which I answered concerned not only UVZ but the entire defense industry
              Yes, it seems I didn’t see anything except the Internet.
              Quote: alexpro66
              GOD MECHANIC WHAT WITH YOU ??? I don’t even know how to comment on your questions ..)))
              Duck do not comment. You know better than anyone that I am a car mechanic. Do not stoop to comments from a car mechanic. hi
  • me
    me 30 September 2013 16: 56 New
    +1
    I hope it will be a high-tech and most importantly safe tank for the crew, albeit a heavy one, I think it is not so important, otherwise why bother to set up it to make the next tin can, which will be taken out with one shot along with the crew?
  • Hauptam
    Hauptam 30 September 2013 18: 08 New
    +1
    In my opinion there will not be any ARMAT in the near future. The concept is not clear what to do, how to use it, how to teach repair, etc. Morozovs, Koshkins were transferred and forgive Guderians.
    1. Armata
      Armata 30 September 2013 18: 36 New
      +3
      Quote: Hauptam
      Morozovs, Koshkins were transferred and forgive Guderians.
      There is no Stalin. There are brains, they just don’t give money, and to hell with money, no one wants to work for sale. There is not a single contract at home.
    2. Prosha
      Prosha 2 October 2013 11: 33 New
      0
      You don’t even understand how you’re right when the prestige of engineers fell and those who didn’t go to the main competitions go to engineering, where do Koshkin and Morozov come from, I wonder: how are gunsmiths and rocket launchers alive with aviators, probably they have their own the selection system for all talents (of course I exaggerate) I don’t think that in the 30s the tests were put in envelopes, and teachers and students emphasized the amount of payment for this or that exam (I try not to offend anyone, but it won’t work). And most importantly, who will do the ARMATU if they suddenly bring it to mass production? At a simple car factory in machine tool manufacturing - roughly 100 out of 40 workers aged 65-10 are only 18 to 30-12 and the sadder it is, there are not just salaries, there are no simple working conditions - the average temperature in the workshop in winter does not exceed XNUMX degrees, the deficit is accurate measuring instruments etc. and you say armata. I would venture to suggest that UVZ is no better. I really hope I'm wrong.
  • scientist
    scientist 30 September 2013 18: 21 New
    0
    I hope the developers think of making a remote workplace for the crew so that they can control and conduct the battle remotely.
  • Bumbarash59
    Bumbarash59 30 September 2013 18: 38 New
    0
    Fire truck made of T-80 smile
  • Bumbarash59
    Bumbarash59 30 September 2013 18: 47 New
    0
    Fire truck made of T-80 smile
  • Bumbarash59
    Bumbarash59 30 September 2013 18: 48 New
    0
    And here is a closer look
  • Bumbarash59
    Bumbarash59 30 September 2013 18: 49 New
    +1
    Of t80 fire truck
    1. Armata
      Armata 30 September 2013 18: 53 New
      +1
      And what is so special about her? Saw at the show. Village stew is normal.
  • waisson
    waisson 30 September 2013 19: 11 New
    +4
    I don’t know over the past few years, the Armat base has been so advertised, I believe that our defense industry should create something else, they will .......
    1. Armata
      Armata 30 September 2013 19: 26 New
      +2
      Quote: waisson
      I don’t know over the past few years, the Armat base has been so advertised, I believe that our defense industry should create something different, they will .......
      It takes only time, time and more time.
  • Kir
    Kir 30 September 2013 19: 50 New
    +1
    The question is, why write an article if everything is based on some vague assumptions, and even if you write then in the spirit of futurism with the involvement of experts and other things: an instrument such and such, MTO such, etc., etc. you look and are lucky - You guessed 70 percent that way with a penny.
  • pawel57
    pawel57 30 September 2013 20: 28 New
    0
    Quote: Rustam
    bask for example?
    Self-propelled guns, coalition, single-barrel and wheeled chassis


    And was it) like no, I said earlier that with the Kamazovsky chassis this is unreal
    Good modernization of the same T-72, armored Urals, French control systems and optics, etc.

    The army itself doesn’t want to order advanced samples such as modernized Tigers with DUMV, BMP 3m, T-90MS and so on - they all takethen why the hell can you take
    I don’t understand at all why it is needed, for what? He is not needed in the motorized rifle, tank battalion, division. They have their own combat vehicles based on armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles and military units. Cormandir and communications. Perhaps in the commandant platoon of the regiment or com. division company? There is something there. Now, if there were police forces in the armed forces, that’s where he belongs. Maybe Rebovtsev, but would prefer an armored personnel carrier or infantry fighting vehicle passing ability and swim. Perhaps special forces for movement under armor.


    an example for the same Tigers who are going with class 3 - they are told to order with class 5 or 6 -they are not Do you need air conditioning? -soldiers inappropriately
    , order a step to make it easier to climb-it's too much
    Then maybe mine seats with head restraints? and why?put the usual
    and loopholes in the windows? -don't let the transom open completely and on top arrow protection is needed? -Lord why do we have Duncans Maclauts not but you give us smoke grenades repeat -Sometimes it seems that in MO alone are dumb

    and there was something to see

    photo (clickable) TIGER + Nekster -ARX 20 thing, but I think in our army this kind of good is not seen
  • alexpro66
    alexpro66 30 September 2013 20: 46 New
    0
    I’ll try to put it here Well, and how will it look with the front MTO? Engineer?
    1. Armata
      Armata 30 September 2013 20: 50 New
      +1
      Quote: alexpro66
      I will try to lay out here
      This layout is a bunch of years old. Better tell who it stands in the office? Probably at UVZ.
      1. Alex 241
        Alex 241 30 September 2013 20: 54 New
        +1
        Zhen welcome, is she?
        1. Armata
          Armata 30 September 2013 20: 57 New
          +1
          Hi Sasha. She is. Only now it looks a little different. And this one remained in memory of the transmash, on the alley of the 4 site.
          1. Alex 241
            Alex 241 30 September 2013 20: 58 New
            +2
            All silent "quieter" laughing
            1. bask
              bask 30 September 2013 21: 06 New
              0
              Quote: Alex 241
              All silent "quieter"

              Good evening Sanya.
              Better tell me what kind of pipelace was presented at the exhibition.
              In the course of self-propelled guns ,, Geocind ,,. Though ... request
              1. Armata
                Armata 30 September 2013 21: 11 New
                +2
                Quote: bask
                Good evening Sanya.
                Better tell me what kind of pipelace was presented at the exhibition.
                In the course of self-propelled guns ,, Geocind ,,. Though ..
                This is not an exhibition. This is not even a prospector.
                1. bask
                  bask 30 September 2013 21: 19 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Mechanic
                  This is not an exhibition. This is not even mined

                  The newspaper printed. Evening Gazette: All News
                  Yekaterinburg Perm Tyumen Kurgan. Her photo from the exhibition. [Media = http: //veved.ru/news/37793-vystavka-russia-arms-expo-201
                  3-vstretila-gostej-tankami-novostyu-o-shojgu-i-tshhatelnym-dosmotrom-foto.html]

                  1. Armata
                    Armata 30 September 2013 21: 20 New
                    +2
                    I just see that this is not a prospector. And the rest is on the conscience of scribblers. Although wait a minute, this is similar to the outbuildings behind the main building, although I'm not sure. I have not seen such a thing there. There was a modified geocint. In short, it wasn’t in front of the central pavilion.
                    1. bask
                      bask 30 September 2013 21: 41 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Mechanic
                      It wasn’t the central pavilion.

                      Thank you. In short, there is no faith in journalists.
                      Let's hope that at least the Coalition will be shown soon.
                      The exhibition was held, and information ... interesting 00000.
                      Compare with the Turkish IDEF-2013, the Turks put up everything new and not any secrets ....
                      1. Alex 241
                        Alex 241 30 September 2013 21: 47 New
                        +2
                        Andrei, what do you think it is?
                      2. bask
                        bask 30 September 2013 22: 10 New
                        0
                        Quote: Alex 241
                        Andrei, what do you think it is?

                        Sasha, I honestly don’t know. request
                        It looks like depth bombs.
                      3. Kars
                        Kars 30 September 2013 22: 13 New
                        +4
                        Quote: bask
                        It looks like depth bombs.

                        Come on. Have you not seen the photo from the self-propelled guns? This is a silencer)))
                      4. Alex 241
                        Alex 241 30 September 2013 22: 17 New
                        +3
                        Hi Andrei, absolutely, the German burghers complained about the cannonade from the landfill, so they dazzled the muffler.
                      5. bask
                        bask 30 September 2013 22: 21 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Kars
                        Hi Andrey, absolutely, the German burghers complained about the cannonade from the firing range, so go blind

                        Quote: Kars
                        Come on. Have you not seen the photo from the self-propelled guns? This is a silencer)))

                        Lounged what It happens, just a silencer for self-propelled guns.
                    2. Kars
                      Kars 30 September 2013 22: 15 New
                      +1
                      __________
                  2. Tommygun
                    Tommygun 1 October 2013 11: 45 New
                    0
                    This is an American satellite camouflage X show laughing
                2. The comment was deleted.
        2. Alex 241
          Alex 241 30 September 2013 21: 15 New
          +1
          Andrei gun from the "Coalition" based on "Hyacinth"
  • alexpro66
    alexpro66 30 September 2013 21: 10 New
    +1
    This is not her .. I posted it on the chassis 195 and with a newer booth. Yes, in any case, what kind of front MTO do you upload!? 7 Funny
    1. Armata
      Armata 30 September 2013 21: 13 New
      +1
      Quote: alexpro66
      it's not her .. I posted it on the 195 chassis with a newer box too. Yes, in any case, what kind of front MTO are you uploading !? 7 Funny
      Only alive she is not.
      1. alexpro66
        alexpro66 1 October 2013 15: 33 New
        +1
        Do not go away from the answer .. How, you are proving to me that the self-propelled guns will be with the front MTO, explain where the designers will get the ass of the booth and decide the weight distribution ??? - with the front MTO after the first shot with such a booth, the self-propelled guns will tip over ...
        and pictures of KAOLITICA from the exhibition YOUR NEXT LIE — you don’t have them and cannot be, if only under the name Mechanic unsubscribes DM))))
        1. Kars
          Kars 1 October 2013 16: 07 New
          +2
          Quote: alexpro66
          explain where the designers will give the ass booths and solve the problem with the weight distribution ??? -

          why put an ass somewhere? Case dimensions that will change greatly from the bow or stern placement of the MTO?
          The question of weight distribution - or maybe just by transferring the MTO into the nose and balance .. the boom ..?
          Quote: alexpro66
          with the front MTO, after the first shot with such a booth, the self-propelled gun will simply tip over ...

          Why? How do you explain this? Maybe this is with the feed MTO, to which there is still weight .. the booths ... will it cause the self-propelled guns to capsize, not even from a shot, but from a bump?
          1. alexpro66
            alexpro66 1 October 2013 16: 45 New
            +3
            Dear Kars, reread my early post on this topic .. apparently you forgot what resolution you gave in the last time, I quote ...
            Quote: alexpro66
            Just move this turret in the photo back and the truth will be revealed to you
            Kars:
            She oprakinetsa, And if some wise guy decides to reserve self-propelled guns to tank)))) then I will laugh for a long time. At least for UVZ Izhet and interesting. There will be a price like gold.

            What is the opinion has changed right now? signed a coalition with the Mechanic against me ??))
            Monoblock MTO ARMATUES LONG MTO AREA and if you used front self-propelled guns to self-propelled guns, you still had to lengthen the base AND GOT ​​THE GRAIN SNAKE plus useless empty volume at the back, hypothetically can be used for additional ammunition but then the combat weight exceeds all reasonable limits and refused
            1. Kars
              Kars 1 October 2013 21: 38 New
              +1
              Quote: alexpro66
              What is the opinion has changed right now?

              If you didn’t notice, then nothing has changed for me. When placing the tower in the stern, with the stern placement of the MTO, it will overturn.
              Quote: alexpro66
              Monoblock MTO ARMATUS LONG MTO AREA

              How do you know? and how many?
              Quote: alexpro66
              if for self-propelled guns to use the front it was necessary to lengthen the base

              WHY? So that on the fingers - the base is 10 meters. MTO-well, 3 meters. Why, if these three meters rearrange the base, should the base be extended?
              Quote: alexpro66
              plus useless empty volume at the back

              You can not use everything to worry - start from facilitating a large elevation angle, which will also reduce the height of the tower, ending with fuel tanks. At the same time, I don’t understand why you need to use the Armata base, and not a specially designed case using standardized parts
              1. alexpro66
                alexpro66 1 October 2013 22: 17 New
                +2
                If you didn’t notice, then nothing has changed for me. When placing the tower in the stern, with the stern placement of the MTO, it will overturn.

                Good!
                How do you know? and how many?

                All information from one source Motor block and T-shaped transes ..
                WHY? So that on the fingers - the base is 10 meters. MTO-well, 3 meters. Why, if these three meters rearrange the base, should the base be extended?

                Due to the length of the box - the first, the second - MTO + armored capsule - I posted a picture - if you think that when the MTO is thrown, the booth will remain in place - you are mistaken.
                You can not use everything to worry - start from facilitating a large elevation angle, which will also reduce the height of the tower, ending with fuel tanks. At the same time, I don’t understand why you need to use the Armata base, and not a specially designed case using standardized parts

                Well, I agree with the tanks, you can also screw the dry closet, only all this can be lengthened .. But the fact is that in the technical specifications of the MTO SPGs, the front designers did not offer the front MTO and the body would not be from MBT (or did you think that they just use the MBT body?) and so it will be on a slightly elongated base JUST WITH UNIFIED UNITS AND UNITS WELL AND NATURALLY WITHOUT POWERFUL LOBBY BOOKING BUT WITH BRONECAPSULE.
                1. Kars
                  Kars 1 October 2013 22: 31 New
                  +1
                  Quote: alexpro66
                  Motor block and trance T-shaped.

                  So what?
                  Quote: alexpro66
                  Due to the length of the booth

                  SHE then what?
                  Quote: alexpro66
                  second-MTO + armored capsules

                  Why armored capsule for long-range self-propelled guns?
                  Quote: alexpro66
                  I posted a picture

                  What did you post the picture of? The old model of the double-barrel Coalition? Then what does it have to do with it?
                  Quote: alexpro66
                  the transfer of the MTO booth will remain in place - you are mistaken.

                  Well, I don’t see the reasons for the transfer of the shoulder straps of the tower, especially if it becomes empty and not MTO.
                  Quote: alexpro66
                  Well, I agree with the tanks, and you can screw the dry closet only, all this can be extended

                  It’s strange that you have an empty place under the tower. Now I wonder what is in the middle of the hull? Frets - frontal armor, armored capsule, XXXXX, MTO above which the shoulder strap.

                  Here is the picture - I am SURE that the layout, since I did not see the photo with the tower turned, I can’t even determine from it where the axis of rotation is. And it will most likely flip over even with a slight unevenness.
                  Quote: alexpro66
                  Or did you think that they just use the housing from the MBT?

                  So where, then, is your highly advertised modularity? And why come to me the early pretensions?
                  Quote: alexpro66
                  What does huge alteration mean ??? You are not familiar with the concept of modularity

                  Quote: alexpro66
                  JUST WITH UNIFIED UNITS AND UNITS WELL AND NATURALLY WITHOUT POWERFUL LOBBY BRAIN RESERVATION BUT WITH BRONECAPSULE.

                  And if it is without a frontal reservation, it’s probably overturned
                2. alexpro66
                  alexpro66 2 October 2013 14: 31 New
                  +2
                  So what?

                  Maybe you need to turn on thinking? Longer MTO than the T72 \ 90 family
                  SHE then what?

                  Since it is also longer than Msta’s and especially M109 (AND MUCH heavier AND ANY OTHER GRAVITY CENTER, respectively)
                  Why armored capsule for long-range self-propelled guns?

                  A unified platform-frontal armor can not be hung up and without an armored capsule it is impossible to integrate the crew module - changes will be required that no one will do.
                  Well, I don’t see the reasons for transferring the shoulder straps of the tower, especially if there is a void under it and not MTO

                  Sorry, you don’t see! -The designers see ..
                  What did you post the picture of? The old model of the double-barrel Coalition? Then what does it have to do with it?

                  Look at the picture with a single-barrel version - I posted it earlier
                  It’s strange that you have an empty place under the tower. Now I wonder what is in the middle of the hull? Frets - frontal armor, armored capsule, XXXXX, MTO above which the shoulder strap.

                  Epaulettes of the tower in front of the MTO and not above (over the back of the booth) That they did not tell me under the epaulettes of the designer)) can the tanks and the dry closet)))
                  So where, then, is your highly advertised modularity? And why come to me the early pretensions?

                  And what is the contradiction? Slightly elongated chassis with a modified arrangement of suspension nodes under the shoulder strap and MTO ..
                  And if it is without a frontal reservation, it’s probably overturned

                  Something overturning Msta was not observed, if the driver was trained properly ..
                3. Kars
                  Kars 2 October 2013 16: 26 New
                  +1
                  Quote: alexpro66
                  Maybe you need to turn on thinking? Longer MTO than the T72 \ 90 family

                  And so what? Are you not going to take the T-72 family case? So what’s longer and so what?
                  Quote: alexpro66
                  Since it is also longer than Msta’s and especially M109

                  I netnice richer than this phoase will often come))
                  And what’s the matter? Or are you going to put on the base MSTA or M-109?
                  Quote: alexpro66
                  Look at the picture with a single-barrel version - I posted it earlier
                  Repeat, I looked at your posts until September 23, I did not see a single-barrel one.

                  Quote: alexpro66
                  Epaulettes of the tower in front of the MTO and not above (over the back of the booth) That they did not tell me under the epaulettes of the designer)) can the tanks and the dry closet)))

                  Well, this vryatli reduces the length of the body, and just you do not like a favorite empty place
                  Quote: alexpro66
                  HAVE GOT THE SNAKE GORINYCH plus useless empty volume at the back

                  The same just before MTO
                  Quote: alexpro66
                  And what is the contradiction? Slightly elongated chassis with a modified arrangement of suspension nodes under the shoulder strap and MTO ..

                  In everything - as I wrote much earlier
                  Quote: Kars
                  , for each car huge modifications will be required

                  at the same time, the epaulette will be in the same place as the tank has a weak version. And it will be just a new building.
                  Quote: alexpro66
                  Something overturning Msta was not observed - if the mechanical driver is trained normally

                  But she is inclined to this, although her cent of gravity will be better than your layout. Although I can not even imagine what the weight will be in the end.
                4. alexpro66
                  alexpro66 2 October 2013 23: 27 New
                  +2
                  And so what? Are you not going to take the T-72 family case? So what’s longer and so what?

                  From the fact that I wrote to you earlier, the case will have to be lengthened back, due to the size of the MTO booth + CAPSULE + POGON + PLUS REAR PART VERY LONG BUD
                  I netnice richer than this phoase will often come))
                  And what’s the matter? Or are you going to put on the base MSTA or M-109?

                  Since you brought me an example with photo M109
                  Repeat, I looked at your posts until September 23, I did not see a single-barrel one.

                  My posts didn’t start from Sep 23, if you started trolling, dig more into them
                  Well, this vryatli reduces the length of the body, and just you do not like a favorite empty place

                  Why did you write this? Forgot what it is about? Trolling is growing?))
                  The same just before MTO

                  Not at all the same thing, the booth will not hang and due to the fact that in front only the capsule-length of the body will be less, even by 30cm, but this is not enough
                  In everything - as I wrote much earlier

                  There is no contradiction
                  at the same time, the epaulette will be in the same place as the tank has a weak version. And it will be just a new building.

                  The epaulette, by definition, will not be in the same place as the MBT body of the self-propelled guns, a little longer, respectively, the center of the epaulette will be shifted closer to the central heating
                  But she is inclined to this, although her cent of gravity will be better than your layout. Although I can not even imagine what the weight will be in the end.

                  All sau are inclined, due to the high center of gravity compared to the tank .. The weight of the chassis on the Armata platform is declared from 48 to 62 tons, depending on the product ..
                5. Kars
                  Kars 2 October 2013 23: 52 New
                  +1
                  Quote: alexpro66
                  the case will have to be lengthened back

                  And what? And how to lengthen it - if the hull will be built from scratch? Or do you mean to lengthen in comparison with the armature tank? With the T-90? And why lengthen back? Or maybe forward?))
                  Quote: alexpro66
                  MTO + CAPSULE + RUNNING + PLUS REAR PART VERY LONG BODY

                  But is this building a very long booth? And what will happen under the very long booth? If you say that everything will be in the tower?
                  Quote: alexpro66
                  Since you brought me an example with photo M109

                  So what?
                  Quote: alexpro66
                  My posts didn’t start from Sep 23, if you started trolling, dig more into them

                  Why do I need this? You reproached her, take the trouble to repeat it, especially if it was hell when.
                  Quote: alexpro66
                  Why did you write this? Forgot what it is about? Trolling is growing?))

                  He asked a question. And trolling - you are a solid troll. But funny.
                  Quote: alexpro66
                  Not at all the same thing, the booth will not hang and due to the fact that in front only the capsule-length of the body will be less, even by 30cm, but this is not enough

                  The same thing, and 30 cm for such as foolish little things are drawn, and not a fact.
                  Quote: alexpro66
                  There is no contradiction

                  continuous contradictions. you can see how modular you perceive it.
                  Quote: alexpro66
                  The epaulette, by definition, will not be in the same place as the MBT body of the self-propelled guns, a little longer, respectively, the center of the epaulette will be shifted closer to the central heating

                  Yeah, and where is what modularity? Can it be easier to say that it’s just a chassis sau, and not to fit armature?
                  Quote: alexpro66
                  All sau are inclined, due to the high center of gravity compared to the tank .. The weight of the chassis on the Armata platform is declared from 48 to 62 tons, depending on the product ..

                  Where is it declared and by whom? As for everyone, they are inclined - it’s not, not for everyone.
                6. alexpro66
                  alexpro66 3 October 2013 18: 11 New
                  +1
                  What do you want to prove to me that the caterpillar Coalition will be with the front MTO ?? KNOW ABOUT HER MORE? I brought you a photo of concepts, already a single-barrel coalition, all MTO behind. Read carefully-TK on self-propelled guns with rear MTO! I hope you understand the Cyrillic alphabet. The designers proved that such a scheme meets all the requirements of the customer — the MO — the customer has nothing against it. In the conditions of using standardized units. Units (including armored capsules into which control and monitoring systems are integrated, this is one of the main innovations of the modern platform) it is not advisable to use the scheme with front MTO Here's a photo transfer MTO FORWARD DO NOT FORGET ABOUT BRONECAPSULE and move the box back - what else do you need?
                7. alexpro66
                  alexpro66 3 October 2013 18: 12 New
                  +1
                  The same presentations for Rogozin - self-propelled guns with rear MTO-sorry photo does not want to go in the answers I will post separately at the end of the topic ..
          2. Kars
            Kars 2 October 2013 23: 56 New
            +1
            Quote: alexpro66
            an unified platform-frontal armor can not be hung up and without an armored capsule it is impossible to integrate the crew module — changes will be required that no one will do.

            Well, how many millions of out-of-kind overpayment money? And without frontal armor, as a counterweight, with the aft MTO location, the tochnik will be dumped, I suppose it will also have to put openers on the stern. And even a booth - if it’s like a model, the case will be 10 meters long.
          3. Kars
            Kars 3 October 2013 00: 01 New
            +1
            How harmonious is the high degree of unification with Germany’s MBT,
            And then someone invents a bicycle trip (although the desire to arrange a peeling is understandable)
          4. alexpro66
            alexpro66 3 October 2013 17: 52 New
            +1
            Nobody argues, handsome! In every way! Offer to copy or purchase? Well, with the degree of unification of the caterpillar Coalition (not only with the MBT, but with the entire line of heavy tracked vehicles), no one can compare! Something during the invention of Msta went by installing a booth on a slightly modified classic chassis of OBT-I, as it was not strange to miss! Probably all the same, it all depends directly on the designer, his ability to prove the viability of his product and its ability to fulfill the tasks assigned to it.
            Msta-M is a vivid example of fluff of 52 caliber, but they ate worse than almost at parity with the German. And what is it worse? Outwardly, I like this tadpole more.
          5. The comment was deleted.
          6. alexpro66
            alexpro66 3 October 2013 17: 54 New
            +2
            PHOTO Msta-M http://topwar.ru/uploads/images/2013/171/irmx184.jpg
          7. Kars
            Kars 3 October 2013 18: 13 New
            +1
            Quote: alexpro66
            Offer to copy or purchase?

            Copy concept.
            Quote: alexpro66
            (not only with MBT but with the entire line of heavy tracked vehicles)

            Why? Although yes, the extra-profit of UVZ is important.
            Quote: alexpro66
            - no one compares!

            At least they would have reached the Paladin’s campaign, otherwise it wouldn’t be comparable - at least it might not be comparable.
            Quote: alexpro66
            OBT-AND NO STRANGE OVER!
            Mediocrity and nothing more.

            Quote: alexpro66
            Msta-M a vivid example of fluff 52 caliber

            How many years of 52-caliber downs have been armed and operated around the world, and how many Msta Ms are in service with the Russian army?
            Quote: alexpro66
            http://topwar.ru/uploads/images/2013/171/irmx184.jpg

            what is this photo for?
          8. alexpro66
            alexpro66 3 October 2013 18: 27 New
            +2
            Copy concept.

            This is the lot of Ukraine.
            Why? At least UVZ superprofits are important

            Do not tell a stupid question!)) Well, yes, Ukraine would be pleased with the bankruptcy of UVZ? No doubt! Or do you think that the program only UVZ and allies are not?
            At least they would have reached the Paladin’s campaign, otherwise it wouldn’t be comparable - at least it might not be comparable.

            And since when did the Paladin become a highly unified pepelats ??
            Mediocrity and nothing more.

            Are you talking about Oplot? I agree!
            How many years of 52-caliber downs have been armed and operated around the world, and how many Msta Ms are in service with the Russian army?

            Counterquestion! How many Bastions in service with the great Ukraine ??
            what is this photo for?

            To the fact that with the rear MTO you can create excellent self-propelled guns
          9. Kars
            Kars 3 October 2013 18: 50 New
            +2
            Quote: alexpro66
            This is the lot of Ukraine.

            I would not mind. And yours is seen reinventing the wheel.
            Quote: alexpro66
            Do not tell a stupid question!))

            Naturally, it cannot be otherwise with your narrow-mindedness. The Russian Army is simply obliged to have a minelayer and BREM (and so on) on the basis of a tank which is not yet available when it will be adopted for service. And it’s UVZ production.
            And thousands of armored objects under the autogen.
            Quote: alexpro66
            Well, yes, Ukraine would be pleased with the bankruptcy of UVZ? No doubt!

            This could please the RF Ministry of Defense. But for us, what? All the same, thousands of second-hand T-72s are not going anywhere, as are the possibilities of the Russian Federation for crediting for the purchase of its weapons.
            Quote: alexpro66
            And since when did the Paladin become a highly unified pepelats ??

            Since the US Army adopted the M 109. And this is just an example of REASONABLE ECONOMIC unification.
            Quote: alexpro66
            Are you talking about Oplot? I agree!

            It’s strange where did the Oplot come from? But this is an indicator of how you envy the Oplot that it has become your fix idea.
            Quote: alexpro66
            Counterquestion! How many Bastions in service with the great Ukraine ??
            This is not a question - this is tears)) of course, thanks for the great Ukraine, but all the same, the Russian Federation is the largest state in terms of area, which claims to be world leader and spends billions on its army.

            Quote: alexpro66
            To the fact that with the rear MTO you can create excellent self-propelled guns
            when there is a need to put self-propelled guns on the finished tank chassis, but it still gets ersatz.

            A classic self-propelled gun
          10. alexpro66
            alexpro66 3 October 2013 19: 35 New
            +1
            I would not mind. And yours is seen reinventing the wheel.

            Well, at the level of your awareness, this is the maximum that you could assume
            Naturally, it cannot be otherwise with your narrow-mindedness. The Russian Army is simply obliged to have a minelayer and BREM (and so on) on the basis of a tank which is not yet available when it will be adopted for service. And it’s UVZ production.
            And thousands of armored objects under the autogen.

            Well, judging by the answer, your outlook is narrowed to the size of a molecule ..
            This could please the RF Ministry of Defense. But for us, what? All the same, thousands of second-hand T-72s are not going anywhere, as are the possibilities of the Russian Federation for crediting for the purchase of its weapons.

            Well, Ukraine has the opportunity to sell its scrap metal to Thailand - calling it the Bastion. Well, our creditworthiness does not upset me at all
            Since the US Army adopted the M 109. And this is just an example of REASONABLE ECONOMIC unification.

            Is that what you decided ???
            It’s strange where did the Oplot come from? But this is an indicator of how you envy the Oplot that it has become your fix idea.

            No, just a stupid statement that you received the corresponding answer ..
            This is not a question - this is tears)) of course, thanks for the great Ukraine, but all the same, the Russian Federation is the largest state in terms of area, which claims to be world leader and spends billions on its army.

            Good!!
            It's my pleasure!
            We do not want to feed someone else's army! (Historian)
            when there is a need to put self-propelled guns on the finished tank chassis, but it still gets ersatz.
            A classic self-propelled gun

            Ersatz? )) Classic airplanes (for example) - airplanes with internal combustion engines and resembling a sewing machine - you will not see anywhere except the museum and the private collection. Classical self-propelled guns, just an example of an ersatz, whipped up with the use of tractors .. The time for classic equipment passes, a new modern one comes in, we are glad if our possible opponents remain adherents of the classics for as long as possible!)))
          11. Kars
            Kars 3 October 2013 21: 05 New
            +1
            Quote: alexpro66
            Well, at the level of your awareness, this is the maximum that you could assume

            Well, of course, Mr. Skazachnik.
            Quote: alexpro66
            Well, judging by the answer, your outlook is narrowed to the size of a molecule ..

            Compared to you, a molecule is a universe.
            Quote: alexpro66
            Well, Ukraine has the opportunity to sell its scrap metal to Thailand - calling it the Bastion. Well, our creditworthiness does not upset me at all
            What say what they wanted?
            Quote: alexpro66
            Is that what you decided ???
            They would work on the topic and would not ask such a stupid question, but you can only see from fairy tales.

            Quote: alexpro66
            No, just a stupid statement that you received the corresponding answer ..
            And what exactly did Oplot remember?

            Quote: alexpro66
            We do not want to feed someone else's army! (Historian)
            And for this you still do not have foreign-level self-propelled guns? Cool answer.


            Quote: alexpro66
            Ersatz? )))

            Msta Yes, ertzats
            Quote: alexpro66
            we are glad if our possible opponents remain adherents of the classics as long as possible!)))

            Are you glad? While having nothing at all except pictures?
  • Kars
    Kars 1 October 2013 22: 32 New
    +1
    ___________
  • alexpro66
    alexpro66 30 September 2013 21: 12 New
    +2
    You don’t flip the arrows .. The first is where the pictures of the Coalition that you promised and the second is where you were going to place the booth on the chassis with the previous MTO ??
    1. Armata
      Armata 30 September 2013 21: 17 New
      +1
      Quote: alexpro66
      The first is where the pictures of the Coalition that you promised
      I already said about this to the especially gifted.
      Quote: alexpro66
      and second, where were you going to place the booth on the chassis with the previous MTO ??
      I’m not going to post anything anywhere. Again for the gifted. Our design bureau develops and manufactures stands and a conductor for manufacturing, but the rest are questions of Transmash designers (For reference, their design bureau is located in Ekat on the Front Brigades)
      1. nick-name
        nick-name 30 September 2013 21: 41 New
        +2
        Quote: Mechanic
        Again for the gifted. Our kb designs and manufactures stands and conductors for manufacturing

        So do you do tooling? Since when have fur technologists. began to devote to processing in the process of OCD? )))
        1. Armata
          Armata 30 September 2013 21: 43 New
          +1
          Quote: nick-name
          So do you do tooling? Since when have fur technologists. began to devote to processing in the process of OCD? )))
          Do you understand the difference between rigging and stand? Apparently not.
          1. nick-name
            nick-name 30 September 2013 21: 56 New
            +1
            A jig is a snap-in, you say you make it, don’t you?
            And no matter how, with what kind of technologist (designer) from the enterprise of the subcontractor they begin to devote to OCD?
    2. bask
      bask 30 September 2013 21: 53 New
      +1
      Quote: alexpro66
      You don’t flip the arrows .. The first is where the pictures of the Coalition that you promised and the second is where you were going to place the booth on the chassis with the previous MTO ??

      Yes, all modern self-propelled guns, with a front-mounted MTO.
      Self-propelled guns K-9., Thunder ,, South Korea.
      What is the problem with the front MTO.
      1. alexpro66
        alexpro66 1 October 2013 15: 24 New
        +1
        The problem is critical only for the Coalition. The booth is fully automated in the same place, the booth is no longer under the booth, so the booth is very large with the ensuing consequences in the case of a rear MTO, review my posts, I have already unsubscribed on this issue ..
        1. Kars
          Kars 1 October 2013 15: 34 New
          +2
          Quote: alexpro66
          The booth is fully automated;

          Like Thunder, not everything is automated.

          Here is the last German - wherever you want to put the booth.
          Quote: alexpro66
          the box is very overall with the ensuing consequences in the case of rear MTO

          So are you for the rear or front location?
          1. alexpro66
            alexpro66 1 October 2013 16: 59 New
            +1
            Kars they decided without me to create a front MTO. By the way, about the front MTO TBMP-they tried to find a compromise, the MTO was written in the TZ, but in this case the TBMP seriously loses security in the frontal projection and gets a heavily loaded nose .. (the fault in the rear-engine MTO monoblock engine and transmission increases the body height and weight, but security be healthy! I wonder how this "incident" ends ??
    3. Kars
      Kars 30 September 2013 22: 18 New
      +1
      Quote: alexpro66
      to place the booth on the chassis with the previous MTO ??

      And what are the problems? Here, in my opinion, the rear location of the MTO can cause problems.

      Fritz with front MTO
      1. bask
        bask 30 September 2013 22: 43 New
        +1
        Quote: Kars
        Fritz with front MTO

        Of the modern ones, only the self-propelled guns, Msta S ,,. MTO in the stern.
        How is it served? You can approach the MTO only by deploying a tower at 90 degrees.
        1. Alex 241
          Alex 241 30 September 2013 22: 58 New
          0
          Andryukh delete the photo, my antivirus is working, a malicious link, but it’s better to delete the whole post. Once again I checked: The photo contains a malicious link !!!!!
  • Alex 241
    Alex 241 30 September 2013 21: 21 New
    +2
    ......................................................
  • REZMovec
    REZMovec 30 September 2013 22: 51 New
    +4
    People! Hare "spears to break" !! There will be a real "Armata" - we will argue, discuss, etc. etc. Are you still tired of this void? The author, in my opinion, needs only the number of publications, but not their quality at all ... Or is it an order “from above” - to distract people from thoughts about their daily lives.
  • Bugor
    Bugor 1 October 2013 00: 30 New
    +6
    Here's what I like - no one really has information. Generally no. If this is the result of the work of the FSB or the lack of talkativeness among those who know, I shake hands with both.
    But just as if it turned out to be the absence of a result (Armata) in principle ...
    1. scientist
      scientist 1 October 2013 09: 52 New
      +1
      there are no fools to shine ip-shnik on the Russian server.
    2. Cynic
      Cynic 1 October 2013 13: 48 New
      +1
      Quote: Bugor
      it wouldn’t turn out to be the absence of a result (Almaty) in principle ...

      In principle, there is 195 product, everything else is its simplification.
  • scientist
    scientist 1 October 2013 09: 50 New
    +2
    Honestly, I don’t understand what may be secret in the appearance of the product. New technical solutions and the concept of creating "Almaty" have been known for a long time.
    I think the problem is that the military still can not determine exactly what they want due to a change of leadership. And the industry was tired of redoing products for free in accordance with the new Wishlist generals.
    1. Cynic
      Cynic 2 October 2013 10: 48 New
      0
      Quote: scientist
      Honestly, I don’t understand what may be secret in the appearance of the product.

      All !
      Quote: scientist
      New technical solutions and the concept of creating "Almaty" have been known for a long time.

      So were they known? In particular, what decisions and to what extent Armata will correspond to this all known .
      I don’t understand one thing, why everyone is waiting for something like this from a universal platform. A universal machine can never be at least comparable in parameters to a specialized one, by definition!
  • Mairos
    Mairos 1 October 2013 12: 46 New
    +1
    "With the front location of the MTO, the engine protects the crew at the cost of its own operability, which is why anti-tank ammunition with sufficient characteristics, without harming the crew, can immobilize the tank and make it an easy target." - This is better than such ammunition "harm" the crew. Iron is not worth the life of people. We have so few of them.
  • alexpro66
    alexpro66 1 October 2013 17: 04 New
    +1
    Yesterday, they kind of confirmed that 45mm would be chosen for the Terminator-Armat (maybe two barrels at once !!) a gun, more ammunition than with 57mm .. but still we can wait and that will change .. If Mouse-Atom finds buyers who knows maybe 57mm will (this is purely my opinion)
    1. Armata
      Armata 1 October 2013 20: 43 New
      -1
      Quote: alexpro66
      Yesterday, they kind of confirmed that for Terminator-Armat 45mm will be chosen (maybe two barrels at once !!) the gun is more ammunition than with 57mm .. but we can also wait for that to change.
      Who confirmed this? Terminator -Armata where such information? and why BMPT do on a heavy platform?
      1. alexpro66
        alexpro66 1 October 2013 21: 25 New
        +2
        Everything will be on the platform ... And I’m not even going to buy the current Terminators-72 MO ..
    2. nick-name
      nick-name 4 October 2013 15: 58 New
      0
      Quote: alexpro66
      Yesterday, they kind of confirmed that 45mm would be chosen for Terminator-Armat (maybe two barrels at once !!)

      What kind of weapon? Tape food?
      1. alexpro66
        alexpro66 4 October 2013 16: 26 New
        +1
        I’ll clarify later, as long as I heard the conversation, I haven’t seen the pictures yet .. And I didn’t operate on the model names .. I dare to suggest from a previously heard new 45mm with telescopic ammunition This is a new tool that was originally planned for installation on Boomerang and Kurganets (in one of the options)
        Most likely it will be 57mm long for urban conditions
        1. alexpro66
          alexpro66 4 October 2013 16: 29 New
          +1
          Not sure if it? I took the photo from Khlopotov .. http://topwar.ru/uploads/images/2013/496/lkya900.jpg
  • alexpro66
    alexpro66 1 October 2013 21: 27 New
    +2
    Quote: alexpro66
    Everything will be on the platform ... And I’m not even going to buy the current Terminators-72 MO ..

    If I answer that the information from the DR believe ???)))
  • labendik
    labendik 2 October 2013 19: 26 New
    +1
    But does it exist at all?
  • alexpro66
    alexpro66 3 October 2013 18: 13 New
    +1
    Photo Msta-m
  • voliador
    voliador 3 October 2013 18: 14 New
    +1
    What to guess? They will show - we will see.
  • alexpro66
    alexpro66 3 October 2013 18: 14 New
    +2
    A photo of what is more or less similar to the Coalition (tracked)
    1. Kars
      Kars 3 October 2013 18: 20 New
      +1
      Nda see some kind of problems with the servomechanisms. That the booth is so big get. Or Bk in 100 shells?))))
      1. alexpro66
        alexpro66 3 October 2013 18: 31 New
        +1
        Unfortunately, I did not see the interior of the Coalition booth .. The only image floating on the network ??
        1. Kars
          Kars 3 October 2013 18: 35 New
          +1
          Quote: alexpro66
          The only floating image on the network ??

          Image? I certainly apologize - but this is a PICTURE of fantasy on a self-propelled guns.
          And nothing more))