Military Review

"It turns out quick work." Heraldry specialist with skepticism refers to the new versions of military symbols

95
"It turns out quick work." Heraldry specialist with skepticism refers to the new versions of military symbols

“Sergey Kuzhugetovich Shoigu is a good man, but for some reason he thinks that he is a great dock in all matters. And he makes sole decisions, ”said Leonid Tokar, a member of the Heraldic Council under the President of Russia, commenting on the new emblem options proposed by Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu in an interview with the VIEW newspaper.


By the end of the month, the Ministry of Defense intends to choose a new emblem for a military uniform. Earlier, Russian generals expressed their opinion on the presented options for the emblems, and last week the head of department, Sergei Shoigu, offered them to the attention of the Public Council under the Ministry of Defense. At the exit from the meeting room, a ballot box was installed.

The presented options were not liked by all members of the Public Council. The leader of the Moral Code group, Sergey Mazaev, immediately appealed not to hurry with the approval of the emblem, to which the minister replied: “Just do not tighten up; Then it will take time for a very large circulation, for tenders, and so on. ”

As a source in the Ministry of Defense staff explained to the newspaper VZGLYAD, "there is no talk of some kind of global rebranding." “We are not planning to massively change stars for tanks and airplanes. Those that are now on the equipment will remain on it. But in addition to combat vehicles, there is also a form. And not only the one in which they go to parades, field trips, but also for everyday wear. For example, T-shirts, tracksuits. The same souvenir products, ”the source explained.

The fact that the Ministry of Defense chooses a new emblem, which will be applied to all army aircraft, tanks, ships and other military equipment, RBC daily reported earlier. According to the publication, 13 emblem versions were prepared: the star and the colors of the Russian flag are present in all versions.

In an interview with the VIEW newspaper, the emblem options presented by Shoigu were assessed by the author of many emblems of civil departments, a member of the Heraldic Council under the President of Russia Leonid Tokar.

VIEW: Leonid Nikolayevich, what requirements should be placed on the emblems of the armed forces?

Leonid Tokar: We already have an emblem of the armed forces - the emblem of the Ministry of Defense. Established by decree of the President of Russia No. 46 of January 27 1997, it is a two-headed eagle with outstretched wings, holding a sword in its right paw, and a laurel wreath in its left.

The emblem should be as simple as possible in order to apply it through a stencil, and at the same time to give an idea of ​​the equipment belonging to certain armed forces of a certain state, it should be easily recognizable.

And if it should be recognizable, was it not easier to turn to traditions? With 1918, we either used a red star or a red star with white trim. This emblem is traditional for the armed forces of the USSR. It is necessary not to invent a new one, but to use a traditional sign, especially since it is recognizable.

In general, the need for marking military equipment in Russia arose before the First World War, when the first copies of aircraft and tanks appeared. Our identification marks from that period are a white-blue-red circle. This circle appeared not by chance - it is, figuratively speaking, a ribbon of the colors of the national flag, assembled in a round rosette. Cockades looked like that, that is why identifiers on the technique of the pre-revolutionary period were also called cockades.

Then, when part of the airplanes turned to red, a star began to be planted on these white-blue-red circles, but this was a temporary measure. But the use of Soviet symbols is still not in doubt. Civil aviation The Soviet period was also indicated by this sign, and today Aeroflot uses the same emblem - wings against the background of a sickle and a hammer.

The projects presented can hardly be called emblems, most likely they are logos, because the words “Army of Russia” are graphically depicted here.

VIEW: Is it necessary to have the colors of the national flag on the military emblem?

L. T: Not necessarily. If there is a recognizable symbol, then why do we need the colors of the national flag? And the red star with white edging is associated with Russia, the star was used by the Americans, but there the star was white.

VIEW: Do not you alone say that the new emblem is a copy of the American version, some also point to similarities with the Chinese. Is this some kind of global rule for creating emblems, or is it just created without much imagination?

L. TA: Yes, of course, if you look at the 11, 12 and 13 options, removing the inscription “Army of Russia” and you open the identification marks of the Air Force of the American Army, all your questions will disappear by themselves - absolutely clear tracing paper with some changes. On the emblem itself, this inscription “The Army of Russia” is deeply incomprehensible to me, it again turns the emblem into a logo. The comparison with China is not quite right, the Chinese still have a yellow edging star, and more recently a hieroglyph is required in the center of the star.

Need to know history, heraldic traditions, otherwise a hack work. For example, while I was developing insignia for Russian Railways, designer Victoria Andreyanova was developing a uniform for railroad workers. During one of my visits, I was shown the work of her young designers - a jacket with a red ribbon with a white edging missed in the loop. I ask: "What is it?" They answer: "Well, ribbon, beautiful." I say: "Nothing that resembles an iron cross ribbon or a medal for a wound?" - "Oh, we did not think."

So in the case under discussion, they forgot to compare it with the American version. What I see in front of me perfectly illustrates that a person far from symbolism was engaged in this.

VIEW: Do the options from a purely visual, artistic point of view suit you?

L. TA: They do not like it. If you love a star, then let's star. She traditionally has the right to life. If you want something new without a star, we will return to the fact that there is an officially approved emblem that no one bothers to use on the technique. Don't you like her? Sorry, you accepted this. Then let's change the presidential decree.

When I design emblems, I try to get away from statehood. Because the emblem is created for many years and should not depend on the change of state symbols. I have been doing this for decades and have developed many departmental symbols. There are good departmental emblems that are worn for decades, no one is going to change them. Based on this, I - for a star on the technique.

# {weapon} VIEW: Sergey Mazaev admitted in an interview with our newspaper that he saw in this emblem Shoigu a "Kabbalistic sign." “If an inner circle is drawn from the center of the star, then the outer corners should be a little more obtuse, such as the Hero's Star was - it is rounder, kinder, wider, and the sharp straight geometric star - this symbol is taken from Kabbalah,” explained Mazaev. How seriously can you take such a reproach?

L. TA: Mazaeva can be excused, he does not know that the stars were different. If we consider the stars that were used as a emblem for a headdress, the rays were sharp, wide, narrow, and even oval-pointed. There were lots of options. Therefore, the star is a star, as you draw, so it will be. If we take as an example the Star of the Hero of the Soviet Union, then such an outline was inherent in it.

On the presented projects in the 9, 10 variants, a star is depicted in just such a pattern that has been applied to our aircraft for many years. The 6 version was also. It was used on sleeve insignia in the 1922 year, when the internal was drawn in black with a red outer star.

VIEW: Who generally should be engaged in the creation of emblems at the state level?

L. TA: To carry out a unified state policy in the field of heraldry, in 1999, the Heraldic Council under the President of the Russian Federation was created, of which I am a member. According to the regulation on the council, the symbols of state bodies are being coordinated and examined in the Heraldic Council. There are experts in it.

Sergei Kuzhugetovich Shoigu is a good man, but for some reason he thinks that he is a great dock in all matters. And makes sole decisions. In the Ministry of Defense there is a heraldic service. I do not understand why this issue should be discussed at the Public Council when there is a Heraldic Council under the President of Russia. Of course, many are grateful to the Minister for having returned the shoulder strap to the field uniform on his stomach.

But then comes the so-called office form. Quiet horror that they have stuck. This is a separate conversation. What is an office form for? Field - it is clear. Any form of clothing has practical functions. If you take the 1812 year - there are different beautiful uniforms. What was it for? Not because it was beautiful, but so that the commander-in-chief could see the troops on the field and lead them. Then the bright form served to facilitate the control of troops on the battlefield.

As soon as we have an automatic weapon and a weapon with a long range of fire, we have the need to disguise. The British were the first to encounter this during the Anglo-Boer War, when the troops suffered heavy losses due to the fact that the uniforms were red - and were noticeable in the field. Camouflage appears.

There is still a dress uniform. When they say that it should be comfortable, it makes me skeptical smile. The dress uniform should be beautiful, show the power of the army, and it can be uncomfortable.

There is, in turn, also a daily form in which you can work absolutely comfortably in headquarters or now in offices. Therefore, the appearance of the office form is absolutely incomprehensible to me. Moreover, our military leaders in it resemble representatives of African or Latin American countries. Initially rich sewing on headdresses was intended only for dress uniform. In everyday form there was not much sewing. And now look at the office cap. It is completely embroidered, there is simply no place for living. Why embroider it?

The passion of Sergey Kuzhugetovich to decorate his uniform with stripes is already a talk of the town. There are unwritten rules for creating a uniform. There are experts who can tell you how to do it right.

Many subordinates are afraid to express their thoughts to high authorities, but I am a free man and I can defend my opinion regardless of the position held by the interlocutor, be it the Minister of Defense or even the President. And as a specialist, at least I will.
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  1. Hauser
    Hauser 26 September 2013 17: 09
    +6
    Office uniform ?! Cool. East is a delicate matter.
    1. soldat1945
      soldat1945 26 September 2013 18: 48
      22
      He wrote in the previous topic, Shoigu the pagan hangs us with colored rags so that evil spirits do not dominate and there is no evil eye !!!!! The office uniform is generally the average between the Ministry of Emergencies and the Chinese army
      1. Asgard
        Asgard 26 September 2013 20: 58
        +6
        He neighed over some comments of the comrades, I especially liked it, return Serdyukov))))
        Well, I don’t want to write anything about the Shaman, honestly, there will be no sense from this Minister ...

        I now want to raise a question on the individual armor of a soldier .....
        Bullet-proof vests, helmets, shoes, gloves ... the level of personnel losses depends on clothing (as well as on training)) - this should be done, and not come up with logos with the unknown wording "Russian army" - where is this written in the charter ???? ????????

        In ancient times, the Knights swam in armor, ran, fought, then People were treated like human beings ....
        and Wait "dancing with a tambourine" in the media)))))))))))
      2. Andrey from Tver
        Andrey from Tver 27 September 2013 08: 37
        +9
        Quote: soldat1945
        Shoigu the pagan hangs us with colored rags so that evil spirits do not molest and there is no evil eye !!!!!

        Shoigu goes on demobilization? )))
      3. Maks111
        Maks111 28 September 2013 11: 17
        0
        And the star is used by the Satanists.
    2. predator.3
      predator.3 26 September 2013 18: 49
      36
      half of what has been painted reminds of road signs, the other half copies state attributes.
      1. Bronis
        Bronis 26 September 2013 19: 41
        +9
        Unfortunately not. What resembles road signs is also removed from US paraphernalia. And the US one, unfortunately, is better matched in color. Well, the rest are again the US Air Force ... and the Zvezdochka balm. We would have left the symbolism alone. There is a star. On T-shirts, you can simply do it with a contour with a slight difference in shade. It will be worthy and not so screams
        1. s1н7т
          s1н7т 27 September 2013 06: 03
          +2
          Quote: Bronis
          There is a star. On T-shirts it can simply be done with a contour with a slight difference in shade. It will be worthy

          It was like that once. And the inscription was - USSR Armed Forces. Very good it was worth it! soldier
    3. Airman
      Airman 26 September 2013 23: 09
      +7
      Quote: HAUSER
      Office uniform ?! Cool. East is a delicate matter.

      Now the reformist "itch" of each defense minister leads to a change in form, and Shoigu decided to go further and swung at the symbolism. Isn't there a smart person who can stop him? It is funny for me to look at these parrots discharged with gold embroidery, especially at his retinue from the Serdyukov bl ... th battalion, especially at the "generals"
      1. evgenm55
        evgenm55 27 September 2013 11: 56
        +2
        I agree completely ridiculously, a young aunt, deputy minister and general of the army .... Nothing has changed. I also said at the very beginning that there would be no sense from him. Everything bl .... passed to Seryukov’s inheritance to Shoigu, A he was a place where he would be interested in rebuilding troops and embroidering. Yes, and in what form the Ministry for Emergencies showed the events in D. Vostok and Transbaikalia. Again, all the troops disentangle. hate.
    4. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 27 September 2013 06: 23
      +1
      some kind of usa.shny shade on the nameplates, mixed with glamor negative
  2. smiths xnumx
    smiths xnumx 26 September 2013 17: 12
    30
    Insanity and nonsense.
    When the cat has nothing to do, he licks the eggs.
    If there are no other problems in the army, then it's time to do rebranding.
    The upper options are some branches of CSKA, the rest has nothing to do with Russia.
    At the same time, the emblems for the equipment should be recognizable in monochrome. The faceted ("Kremlin") star copes with this without any problems.
    And there is no intersection with the United States and China.
    And of course, our two-headed man didn’t please him if the red race was so disgusting to them.
    And here - some kind of Indonesia or Korea.
    Return Serdyukov! (tm) :) fellow
    1. il grand casino
      il grand casino 26 September 2013 18: 29
      +7
      HERE and I think ... than the star does not like. The red star has seen more than one war ...
      Why be wise. And the inscription “The Army of Russia” in general killed ... that is, for one red star in this particular case it is not clear what’s whose army? ... or is it as a brand? ...
      P.S. He returned from vacation, and here is the news))
      1. alone
        alone 26 September 2013 19: 09
        +8
        Quote: il grand casino
        HERE and I think ... than the star does not like. The red star has seen more than one war.


        But how can some responsible people steal the budget? So they come up with all kinds of contests in order to achieve their goal. Just remember how many times they changed their clothes. It's huge finances.
        1. il grand casino
          il grand casino 26 September 2013 20: 02
          +1
          Quote: lonely
          Quote: il grand casino
          HERE and I think ... than the star does not like. The red star has seen more than one war.


          But how can some responsible people steal the budget? So they come up with all kinds of contests in order to achieve their goal. Just remember how many times they changed their clothes. It's huge finances.


          I didn’t think ... All the time I forget that you need something, somewhere to plunder ...
        2. aleks77
          aleks77 26 September 2013 21: 29
          +1
          Quote: lonely
          The presented options were not liked by all members of the Public Council. The leader of the Moral Code group, Sergey Mazaev, immediately appealed not to hurry with the approval of the emblem, to which the minister replied: “Just do not tighten up; Then it will take time for a very large circulation, for tenders, and so on. ”

          Read carefully, the article clearly says why change the logo.
      2. Bigriver
        Bigriver 27 September 2013 07: 11
        0
        Quote: il grand casino
        ... than the star does not like. The red star has seen more than one war ...

        Not politically correct. As if hinting at the succession of the USSR and the future terrifying appearance of the EAC belay
    2. xetai9977
      xetai9977 26 September 2013 18: 31
      +2
      Indeed, somehow solid. 11 and 12 are generally similar to American characters.
      1. zanoza
        zanoza 26 September 2013 19: 02
        24
        "Eccentricity", and only .... request
    3. Hauser
      Hauser 26 September 2013 18: 41
      +9
      The double-headed eagle is good for the coat of arms, and for the emblem archaic. Red star, with a hammer and sickle. There is an iron cross at the Bundeswehr and nothing, although it has been tradition as a state award for 70 years now.
  3. Stiletto
    Stiletto 26 September 2013 18: 09
    25
    Right now we will change the emblem - and that’s it, khan to the enemy. The immortal movie of DMB:

    "While the enemy is drawing the maps of the offensive, we change the landscapes, and manually. When the time comes for the attack, the enemy is lost in unfamiliar terrain and comes into full non-readiness."
    1. 11 black
      11 black 26 September 2013 21: 27
      +3
      Quote: Stiletto
      Right now we will change the emblem - and that’s it, khan to the enemy. The immortal movie of DMB:

      "While the enemy is drawing the maps of the offensive, we change the landscapes, and manually. When the time comes for the attack, the enemy is lost in unfamiliar terrain and comes into full non-readiness."

      You need to go as chief of the General Staff !!!!! + you laughed heartily laughing
  4. Saharok
    Saharok 26 September 2013 18: 21
    13
    Red Star, Hammer and Sickle !!! these are the true symbols of our valiant army.
    I can already imagine how they will howl in Poland and Spratland from such a symbol. =)

    And if on the topic, then I do not understand something than the old characters did not please ???
    First, we need to decide how necessary these changes are and it would be desirable
    to attract the public to the choice of a symbol, and then the bourgeois do not choose any damn ....
    1. vladimirZ
      vladimirZ 27 September 2013 05: 04
      +7
      Red Star, Hammer and Sickle !!! these are the true symbols of our valiant army.
      1. ioann1
        ioann1 27 September 2013 17: 33
        0
        vladimirZ, oh, how wrong you are. There was already the Soviet Army and how it collapsed with the USSR, no need to tell. The fact of the matter is that building a new Army is necessary not on the basis of communist nonsense, but on original Russian values, especially on the Orthodox traditions of the Russian Army. The restoration of the Armed Forces is necessary, by the way, this is prescribed in the Directives, on the basis of the great history of Russia and its Army.
        It would be a very big mistake to restore the Soviet Army, and then again begin to fight bullying, a gradual movement to the downfall ...
  5. artist-mamluk
    artist-mamluk 26 September 2013 18: 27
    10
    That's interesting, the one who drew these labels, like a Russian. If you accept these pictures, it is only on the sole of the boot, so that the print is clear.
  6. воронов
    воронов 26 September 2013 18: 28
    11
    Like every pinjak Kuzhugetovich loves a military uniform and all tinsel to him laughing
    1. Airman
      Airman 26 September 2013 23: 30
      10
      Quote: voronov
      Like every pinjak Kuzhugetovich loves a military uniform and all tinsel to him laughing

      During the service I noticed one peculiarity - the worse a soldier serves, the more colorful his demobilized uniform, a bunch of "aiguillettes", galloons and a multitude of undeserved signs, including "Guard", and vice versa, a good soldier leaves in his usual uniform without decorations. So this "tinsel" is suggestive.
      1. German
        German 26 September 2013 23: 45
        +3
        and indeed it is!
  7. andrei332809
    andrei332809 26 September 2013 18: 28
    +4
    is that on the emblems for the zakas under amer? Do we need it?
  8. vkrav
    vkrav 26 September 2013 18: 29
    +9
    Yeah ... Red and blue somehow mate badly ... Even on the emblem. Yes, and 6 of the thirteen emblems are too "based on" the US emblems:
  9. воронов
    воронов 26 September 2013 18: 30
    +3
    Like every civilian Defense Ministry loves a military uniform and all tinsel to it
    1. waisson
      waisson 26 September 2013 18: 45
      +1
      Christmas tinsel
  10. Saharok
    Saharok 26 September 2013 18: 36
    +1
    no, if there are only these options, then 4 and 7 still did not go where ... again, if the "Army of Russia"
    to remove.

    I personally cannot understand why this "Russian Army" is needed as an inscription ??? It turns out that the colors of our flag are not recognized in the world ???
    1. evgenm55
      evgenm55 27 September 2013 12: 18
      +1
      Of course they don’t know - everyone recognized the USSR flag everywhere, there weren’t others like that. And these stripes - like the horse us-l. The flags of the Amers and the Britons, the Chinese, too, recognize the Great Power very different from the mattresses, and the Flag should be recognizable to everyone. RETURN FLAG, RETURN FORM.
  11. Strashila
    Strashila 26 September 2013 18: 38
    +4
    Coloring like the DPRK.
    1. ural70
      ural70 26 September 2013 19: 24
      +1
      That's for sure! The same association arose immediately.
  12. volan
    volan 26 September 2013 18: 40
    17
    Nowadays, Kuzhugetov cockades and other embroideries remind of the "banana" generals. I would like to return the Soviet classics. However - dreams ..
    1. RUSS
      RUSS 27 September 2013 14: 25
      0
      Symbols are needed, but why Soviet, now a different country, a different army, so the symbols are different. One thing is a star - a worldwide military symbol, but a sickle and a hammer ... a symbol of a non-existent party, country and ideology.
  13. Jarserge
    Jarserge 26 September 2013 18: 42
    19
    What can you do ..... First, they introduced Latin American caps with a high crown, where there SSovtsam. Then the imperial "chicken" was added, in the absence of an empire. They march in shirts and trousers for release and shoes. Not an army but a Merlison ballet. How to fight? Again, not with the help of some mother and on bare patreo? Again, the "office" generals and commanders do their best without a button accordion ....
    1. RUSS
      RUSS 27 September 2013 14: 22
      0
      In vain you are talking about a two-headed eagle, this coat of arms has a centuries-old history, dating back to the Principality of Moscow.
  14. waisson
    waisson 26 September 2013 18: 44
    +8
    it’s more difficult for a man who didn’t serve in the army than one was a furniture maker, the second son of a school boss, they always gravitated to amers; all this can be seen in the emblem stripes (accessories), just looking and presenting the fifth column of amer with huge crabs on caps we cannot cherish and be proud of our
  15. ilya63
    ilya63 26 September 2013 18: 48
    +9
    removed, but did not put the thief-serdyuk, put a civil eccentric (on m)
  16. -Max-
    -Max- 26 September 2013 18: 53
    +2
    And there is such an ointment called an "asterisk"!
  17. Leader
    Leader 26 September 2013 18: 56
    +9
    Turner is a smart man; I fully support his opinion.
    And Shoigu is an ordinary party apparatchik, promoted by the media for unknown merits. So far, he has only the return of shoulder straps on his shoulders (skeptically: "huge" merit!); but the liability is replenished. He created Latin American clowns from the uniform of the Ministry of Emergency Situations, the same awaits the Russian army.
    The symbol of our army should be the "red star"!
    And in general: in the army now there are many problems, and these nerds from the Moscow Region are again busy creating a new form. This is an indicator of the level of intelligence for modern military commanders. A week ago, the commander of the unit ordered us to hem work robes and hang emblems on the collar. Well, not a nerd? Work robes for maintenance of equipment !!!
  18. Cat
    Cat 26 September 2013 19: 00
    +8
    Among other things, chevrons for military uniforms are not only valuable fur and show-offs for demobels, it is also a certain amount of budget money for the manufacture of these very chevrons. A good, cozy amount, a bentley with ferraris to buy as much as you can. Or rent a dacha in the Moscow region. Or to pay for the children to study at the English vocational school. There are a lot of options. So they started this, not in the presence of children, it will be said, rebranding. And the fact that the deadline is "for yesterday" is so that competitors do not hurry up and do not offer to change theirs. No, well, the "necessary" contractor will stamp the chevrons, but you never know, suddenly you have to make a different picture, new paints, except red and blue, to buy, extra costs ... Just look - the dacha will be on the floor below, or bentle is half a meter shorter. Not good, in general, it will turn out, yeah.
  19. Ragoz
    Ragoz 26 September 2013 19: 03
    +6
    The most beautiful and recognizable military uniform is the form of the end of the war and there is no need to hang trinkets on the head start. It is necessary to reintroduce the buttonholes, normal and beautiful emblems of the military branches, instead of today's TINS ​​from cans!
  20. saygon66
    saygon66 26 September 2013 19: 13
    18
    - Leaving traditions gave birth to monsters! What was the cost of a "Grachevskaya" cap, the size of a satellite dish! And there is something to take an example: http: //topwar.ru/uploads/images/2013/252/ybbd167.jpg
    1. saygon66
      saygon66 26 September 2013 19: 25
      +1
      - And if you want a parade, there are options: The ceremonial headgear of the Hussars, Major General Godlevsky regiment 1796-1801. By the way, these stamps for sports suits were going to be sculpted ... even the Americans don’t have this, it just says army or fleet. Another thing is if it is applied to mugs, towels, or some souvenirs. smile
      1. phantom359
        phantom359 26 September 2013 22: 26
        +1
        But this is already too much.))
        1. saygon66
          saygon66 27 September 2013 01: 06
          +2
          - Well then ...
          1. Andrey Yuryevich
            Andrey Yuryevich 27 September 2013 12: 32
            +1
            Well this is Nikitushki Mikhalkov’s hat!
          2. RUSS
            RUSS 27 September 2013 14: 20
            0
            For the guard of honor it is.
    2. phantom359
      phantom359 26 September 2013 22: 25
      0
      Quote: saygon66
      - Leaving traditions gave birth to monsters! What was the cost of a "Grachevskaya" cap, the size of a satellite dish! And there is something to take an example: http: //topwar.ru/uploads/images/2013/252/ybbd167.jpg

      Yes, as a parade and everyday will go. Nothing extra.
    3. history
      history 27 September 2013 01: 56
      +5
      The army must be loved and respected! And dressed and shod should be of high quality and tasteful. And according to tradition! Already the Russian Army does not need to be either someone or take an example! Let others take it!
      Why are we collecting any rubbish from the West? The British honor their traditions, are proud of them, and we are all looking for where to bury more money, not where necessary!
      Of course, weapons and personal safety come first, but the appearance (form, attributes) is not the last thing. It is not enough that the professional warriors were removed from the leadership, for how many years the Serdyukovs had been driving, they also do the mummers! The most interesting thing is why?
    4. vladimirZ
      vladimirZ 27 September 2013 05: 15
      +1
      Replace cockade !!!
      1. RUSS
        RUSS 27 September 2013 14: 19
        0
        The crossed cockade is not military, but the Ministry of Internal Affairs.
    5. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 27 September 2013 12: 31
      +3
      I always believed that officers had the most beautiful form before the revolution.
  21. servant.
    servant. 26 September 2013 19: 20
    +7
    Insanity grows stronger! At this pace, we will soon recall Serdyukov with a kind word ...
  22. Moore
    Moore 26 September 2013 19: 22
    +1
    Sane people in Russia are not extinct. It's good. Amer’s wings and beer caps will not be.
  23. Thunderbolt
    Thunderbolt 26 September 2013 19: 28
    +5
    The presented options were not liked by all members of the Public Council. The leader of the Moral Code group Sergey Mazaev immediately urged not to rush to approve the emblem, to which the minister replied: “Just do not delay, until the end of September we must choose the emblem and approve it. Then it will take time for a very large circulation, for tendering and so on».
    It’s bad that the color of the stars depends on the color of the stars on our military, but it’s understandable, because of which all this ficus picus.
  24. The comment was deleted.
  25. Freelancer7
    Freelancer7 26 September 2013 19: 47
    +5
    Not ice at all, it seems that some "own" designers were working. Smells like a saw cut. I wonder how much they paid for the work on these logos.
  26. pinecone
    pinecone 26 September 2013 19: 49
    +9
    The minister’s particular addiction to blue, one of the sacred colors of the Mongolian people, is noticeable.
  27. Altona
    Altona 26 September 2013 19: 54
    +9
    I already wrote about this symbolism in a similar article ... The symbiosis of the USA and the DPRK ... The Red Star has long earned the right to be an irremovable emblem like a German cross beam ... Refusing legendary and recognizable paraphernalia is, so to speak, a big sin ... Why fuss and do unnecessary rebranding if there are well-deserved symbols that have passed fire, water and copper pipes?
  28. Mikado
    Mikado 26 September 2013 20: 01
    +7
    Well, as I understand it, from the article, they don't want to paint these emblems on tanks with airplanes (new stars are already being drawn on them - a red star with white and blue edging, in principle, a good emblem, a tribute to traditions), but they plan to rivet on souvenirs, on pens there, on key chains, T-shirts, caps, jackets. In the USA, after all, the soldiers even have "US Army" written on their shorts, so Kuzhugetovich wants now on our "attributes" to have the inscription "Russian Army". Current for the same souvenirs, as for me, is still better to draw a Star. In general, I heard a story that as soon as the Union collapsed, the amers immediately bought for themselves various Soviet equipment, including the Mi-24, and he had a red star on his belly. So they were used during exercises, when a couple of Mis unexpectedly flew to the units of American soldiers on the march from behind a forest or because of a pea, and so even in their native land, the Americans, at the level of instinct, bent to the ground from the sight of Mi and a star from him on the belly, so there is no need to change the star, I think, let them be afraid, but from these emblems everyone will only laugh. And the office uniform is, of course, a tryndets, Shoigu has suffered something, she is completely licked off the form of the Ministry of Emergencies, I understand that he was still sitting in his old ministry and got tired of wearing a tie, so he introduced this uniform, but it doesn't look at all. He introduced civil servants of the Ministry of Defense a uniform with shoulder straps like the military, only with a white piping, now his deputy women with general shoulder straps are flaunting.
  29. MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 26 September 2013 20: 16
    +4
    I always thought that the main thing was not uniform and all sorts of things. The main officer’s bearing (which has been formed over the years). Wearing it in any clothes, you can still see that a staff officer! In general, the White Guards (in Soviet films) always liked me in uniform !!
  30. sergeschern
    sergeschern 26 September 2013 20: 21
    +2
    Long ... hmm!
  31. Ulysses
    Ulysses 26 September 2013 20: 26
    +1
    There is no need to be a general in order to sweep away this banana husk.
  32. Manul
    Manul 26 September 2013 20: 26
    14
    Strange. Well, why is it always obvious to the whole people understandable and natural like air, and those who are in power in an attack of activity go blind, deaf, dull and lose all connection with reality? I understand if the military, the population of the country and the military of other countries were indignant: " What kind of Star? It is completely unclear what kind of sun it belongs to! "And they would have held a competition among artists and connoisseurs of heraldry. But here Shoigu's friend obviously fired all 13 blots over a bottle of vodka. First, create an Army! So that the S-500, Pantsiri and Voronezh-M stood along the entire border, so that the Armats were listed as divisions, so that the new Migi and Sushki and Yaki were really combat-ready units! That's when there will be something to draw on, then you can return to this issue. purely rhetorically))
  33. MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 26 September 2013 20: 42
    +2
    Quote: Manul
    Strange. Well, why is it always obvious to the whole people understandable and natural like air, and those who are in power in an attack of activity go blind, deaf, dull and lose all connection with reality? I understand if the military, the population of the country and the military of other countries were indignant: " What kind of Star? It is completely unclear what kind of sun it belongs to! "And they would have held a competition among artists and connoisseurs of heraldry. But here Shoigu's friend obviously fired all 13 blots over a bottle of vodka. First, create an Army! So that the S-500, Pantsiri and Voronezh-M stood along the entire border, so that the Armats were listed as divisions, so that the new Migi and Sushki and Yaki were really combat-ready units! That's when there will be something to draw on, then you can return to this issue. purely rhetorically))

    Great wrote! exactly.
    1. ivachum
      ivachum 26 September 2013 21: 20
      +2
      It's difficult ... but the rags are new, it's easy! I remember how we swore altering shoulder straps in one night. But some people cheerfully reported: "The troops have switched to a NEW uniform!" And it is still not in the warehouses, it’s new. The "old" one with a shoulder strap "on the belly" is still issued.
  34. Doctor Evil
    Doctor Evil 26 September 2013 21: 04
    +7
    And why the hell ... then we need the Heraldic Council under the President along with the heraldic service of the Ministry of Defense, if this is r ... they are trying to convince us almost like a fait accompli? Dustless warm sinecure, I suppose.
    1. RUSS
      RUSS 27 September 2013 14: 17
      0
      He returned the Shoigu and the red star to his epaulettes, contrary to the decree of the president.
  35. crambol
    crambol 26 September 2013 21: 08
    +3
    “Sergei Kuzhugetovich Shoigu is a good man, but for some reason he believes that he is a big dock in all matters.

    A terrible disease of all the big bosses. God save us from this!
  36. The comment was deleted.
    1. saygon66
      saygon66 26 September 2013 21: 27
      +4
      -And then! Wing officer hat of the times of Alexander III - the form of this period was considered the most practical and most beautiful in history ...
      1. s1н7т
        s1н7т 27 September 2013 06: 15
        0
        And what is practicality ?! I do not agree.
        1. Poppy
          Poppy 27 September 2013 10: 12
          +1
          boots, harem pants, gymnast - a very practical form
          1. saygon66
            saygon66 27 September 2013 11: 05
            0
            - Yes sir! The "tunic" introduced at that time lasted in the army until the 70s, and the color of the uniforms was "sea wave" or "ultramarine" until the 90s!
      2. s1н7т
        s1н7т 28 September 2013 20: 05
        0
        And what is practicality ?! I do not agree.
  37. The comment was deleted.
  38. Yun Klob
    Yun Klob 26 September 2013 21: 26
    +1
    Guards Headquarters Officer Badge of the 1701 model of the year: Much more correct and accurate.
    1. saygon66
      saygon66 26 September 2013 21: 51
      +2
      - This thing is called gorget. It was worn around the neck as a distinction sign of some regiments. Your sign belonged to the Transfiguration or Semenovts.
  39. The comment was deleted.
  40. Ivan Tarasov
    Ivan Tarasov 26 September 2013 21: 40
    -3
    No. 7 is the most optimal of those proposed above.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  41. Vladi_S
    Vladi_S 26 September 2013 21: 50
    +2
    Sergei Kuzhugetovich Shoigu is a good man ... But with emblems, Serdyukov reminded me of that. Or does he already see himself in bonapartes?
    1. sub307
      sub307 26 September 2013 22: 49
      +4
      Unfortunately, or maybe not - there is no "good man" position in the Ministry of Defense. All the same, you need to think with your head, and you don't "tamper" yourself, consult at least with professionals who "ate the dog" on the topic.
  42. Vladi_S
    Vladi_S 26 September 2013 21: 53
    +3
    Here you can see in form, uniform and a little heraldry: http://www.opoccuu.com/
  43. MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 26 September 2013 21: 56
    +1
    In short, they change the shape and signs to the point that the soldiers will no longer recognize who their who is a stranger .. Angers me all this !!!!
  44. vel19777
    vel19777 26 September 2013 23: 15
    +3
    why do all ministers start their work by dressing up a soldier?
    1. servant.
      servant. 27 September 2013 07: 21
      0
      Yes, it’s easier to promote ...
  45. Aleksandr2103
    Aleksandr2103 26 September 2013 23: 48
    +5
    It may be enough to mock the military and spend money to no purpose. The new minister is already starting to make me angry that he makes painted clowns out of the military.
  46. Dober
    Dober 27 September 2013 00: 02
    -4
    Would you drive these "lazy tykarevs" from all the advice with a filthy broom ...
    They will not only beat you "red Solomon stars" on the lobes, but they will also force you to build a temple in the form of a pentacle on the site of the Kremlin ...

    "Wait for someone-I-a-a-a-a-and-and"
    / nedotyomka Novodvorskaya /

    And what kind of salivation the "new Soviets' im-peppers" have ...
    If only the two-headed eagle was mentioned in their "searches" ...
    The Racean Army - it will certainly happen, but not before the ruler changes. The only thing about this is to lick oneself ... -
    And so on the photo characters others.
    1. regsSSSR
      regsSSSR 27 September 2013 01: 00
      +3
      welcome!
      it seems to me that in order to try on the historical contradiction of the Reds and the Whites and put a bullet in historical wars, we must use both the eagle and the star together in symbolism
      as one character from the movie used to say (election day) - combine brands, so to speak)
      here I drew a quick sketch))
      1. Dober
        Dober 27 September 2013 01: 59
        0
        Quote: regressSSSR
        try on the historical contradiction of red and white and put a bullet in historical wars in symbolism, you must apply both the eagle and the star together

        But Utopia is Dim ...
        The dispute between the Russian military banner with a two-headed eagle or the image of the Savior and the red banner with a five-pointed star is an eternal dispute between God and his absurd creation rebelled against Him, between the Creator of the world, and his molester, between Christ and Antichrist. Primitive images are behind the images, great beings are behind the symbols, and for the sake of loyalty to them and their connections with them, people are ready to sacrifice all their wealth and their very lives. What you bow to is what you connect with. And it’s not at all the same with what, or rather, with whom Russia will seek spiritual unity — with the Lord of Truth or with the father of lies. At the beginning of the twentieth century. our people, for the most part, have already bowed to Satan and God forbid us to commit this disastrous crime again.

        In 1920, before the evacuation of the Russian Army from the Crimea, General Wrangel, one of its officers, Count N. Zubov prophetically wrote:

        "Years will pass and a bloody whirlwind
        Rushing away from us forever -
        Double-headed eagle takes off again
        And the red star will perish. "

        The prophecy came true in 1993.
        Unfortunately...
        Quote: regressSSSR
        here dashed off a quick sketch))

        Thanks, of course. But already done -
        Only the "designer" apparently understands the symbolism. Pentacle NOT RED (bloody)...
        1. regsSSSR
          regsSSSR 27 September 2013 04: 22
          +1
          Thanks, of course. But already done -

          did not see!
          Well, just do well the author looks good! well, at least from an artistic point of view!

          why not apply by the way?

          But Utopia is Dim ...


          I understand all this, of course, it can do everything, and so, but where then to put on 80 years as a whole, all the same, a heroic past! victory in World War II on fascism, which carries far more threats than the Union (then it turns out that evil defeated yet another evil, and maybe it was created for this) and the flight of Gagarin who has entered the history of the world with this symbolism where to put it now is all our history until the way to trying and creating is found, we will stagnate

          (good kindred with violence will inevitably degenerate into evil - and all the more dangerous because it still considers itself good! quote B. Strugatsky Grad Doomed) - this is about the United States today that are not true, but they build a polyteque precisely on faith in God and unwittingly disguised as this (slogan) and at the same time trying to distribute the 3rd world and stand up to no one else's lesser evil destroyed by the great USSR is dead! that's how somehow we live our whole life is the struggle of the least evil with evil! and the truth of true good and faith can be carried by each person separately but not by the masses as a whole! but maybe I don’t know
          (okay, something went wrong to me in the potential for philosophy)

          I apologize by the way I wanted to ask everything and is the satellite you too, or am I mistaken?
          1. Dober
            Dober 28 September 2013 12: 52
            0
            Quote: regressSSSR
            By the way, I wanted to ask everything, is it you too, or am I mistaken?

            Sorry, I didn't get it. What a "satellite" ...
            In terms of invented, built, launched, shot down ... laughing belay
            Nah, not me. So you are mistaken. hi
        2. regsSSSR
          regsSSSR 27 September 2013 20: 48
          +1
          Dober
          The dispute between the Russian military banner with a two-headed eagle or the image of the Savior and the red banner with a five-pointed star is an eternal dispute between God and his absurd creation rebelled against Him, between the Creator of the world, and his molester, between Christ and Antichrist. Primitive images are behind the images, great beings are behind the symbols, and for the sake of loyalty to them and their connections with them, people are ready to sacrifice all their wealth and their very lives. What you bow to is what you connect with.


          Well, just do not quite agree with this, the star designation symbol is more ancient than the one used for Christianity and originally not carrying any negative energy, but rather just a bit of a symbol, we adopted dark cults and gave it a completely different semantic informatics as the Nazis ruined the innocent the Slovenian sign of the Solntsevarot having accepted it at their service (and if they had won now, this sign would have hung over half the world and you would have lived in a completely different Germany and it’s still unknown how you imagined this new world)) I believe that everyone who accepts this or that another ancient symbol itself gives him strength and power, and from the Tago as someone who applies this symbolism to power and authority, the sign of this symbol will depend! (with a + or - sign)
          maybe initially the USSR was created as a state of evil (from the point of view of the church), but with good intentions it may be better than the God-chosen people of the United States created as the state of good and freedom and those who carry evil to the world! and the civolica itself has nothing to do with it: it reflects what they are doing, what is the point of putting it into their version of it, it’s a long-reincarnated symbol of the Masons in the ancient world of Arabia, borrowed from its time
          and as early as 20 years the two-headed eagle returned, the church returned and living well, purely from a spiritual and ideological point of view, it was better that the late USSR was much worse in such an avant-garde than the mess! Of course I wish the country only good and prosperity in general we will wait and see which symbol will rule the world and I hope not Masonic))

          (by the way, they heard the news just by the box showed these same forces of evil (USA) found water on Mars under the ground))

          (picture and wiki pedia solin southern slovenians)
          1. Dober
            Dober 27 September 2013 23: 16
            +2
            My greetings, Dima! hi
            Quote: regressSSSR
            star designation symbol more ancient

            My fault - the thought did not convey correctly. I brought two pictures in which there is no RED star. This is what I wanted to say, that there are differences between a star as a tracing (outline) and a RED PENTACLE - a symbol of the house of Solomon. And it wasn’t from there whether the masses and later the organizers of the Jewish tornado in 17 took it too ((antimatrix.org/Convert/Books/Eduard_Hodos/Yevreiski_Smerch/Yevreiski_Smerch.htm#


            Catechism of the Soviet_Jewish
            )

            Conspiracy theory will not work. Because any symbol is a reflection of goals. In this case, at the level of visual perception, in one fell swoop, erase everything that was in Russia and among the Russians before the Jewish revolution.
            I in no way diminish the successes and victories of the SOVIET PEOPLE. Like a breakthrough into space, grandiose construction projects, restoration after devastating wars and, most importantly, VICTORY itself!
            But taking this symbol as a "standard", we automatically and thoughtlessly cross out the history of Russia! 70 years is not such a long time, and before that there were victories over the Tatars, Khazars, Poles, Turks, and others. There were discoveries by the Lomonosovs, works by the Pushkins ... There were! And they did not happen "under the red star".

            And one more thing ... If in Russia at least 80% of Russians are Russians, let's say 65% ​​of them consider themselves Orthodox. By the way, the most subjected to genocide in the 20th century. Their opposition to the "bloody pentacle" is understandable. But it is not understandable to completely ignore the eight-pointed "STAR OF BIFLEI", adopted not only in Orthodoxy, but also in traditional Christianity.
            But if we take into account the attitude of the Jews towards Christianity over 2000 years, then everything becomes clear ...


            Pay attention to the orders of the Russian Empire if we are talking about the USSR as an empire. 70 years against 700 ...

            2


            www.gorodageroi.ru/geroi/rosimpiria-nagr-sist/
  47. voliador
    voliador 27 September 2013 00: 21
    +2
    Now, did Shoiga decide to do reform and innovation? We had one such mine. defense recently. Barely kicked out.
  48. Sergey S.
    Sergey S. 27 September 2013 00: 21
    +2
    Quote: vel19777
    why do all ministers start their work by dressing up a soldier?

    The Red Banner does not give them peace, and the order to remake the Soviet army into a capitalist controlled toy leaves no choice ...
    And so for 23 years ...
  49. aszzz888
    aszzz888 27 September 2013 00: 44
    +2
    Traffic signs look a lot like. Where are we going?
    Leave it as it is.
  50. Vasily T.
    Vasily T. 27 September 2013 03: 15
    +4
    Serdyukovism is apparently contagious. Shoigu had to disinfect the cabinet after him. Likely picked up something.