Military Review

Ukraine's sovereignty will not fit into NATO standards

63
Ukraine is switching to NATO standards. Experts doubt the political and economic feasibility of such a step.


The transition to new standards is written in the Annual National Ukraine-NATO Cooperation Program. She was sent for approval to the ministries and departments. A number of experts believe that this will be the case. Igor Shishkin, Deputy Director of the Institute of CIS Countries, says:

"I think it makes no sense to attach great importance to this document. It is an old история. Ukraine has accepted quite a few documents on cooperation with NATO under Kuchma. Then, under Yushchenko, there was an attempt to join the NATO Membership Action Plan. The current document is exactly along the same lines. But he does not mean that the current leadership seeks to join NATO. This is the usual line of advance to the West. All those who chose the strategy of Western development, moved there through NATO. And Ukraine will not be able to avoid this, if it wants to finally break with Russia.

But I strongly doubt that it will work out. A good example is the story of Yushchenko. He accepted this line. It was supported by the overwhelming majority of the population of Ukraine. And she failed. If the new leadership decides to play the same games, Yushchenko’s fate will await him. Any country that is beginning to change standards of armaments, should prepare for huge costs. "

Where Ukraine will take the money for this, nobody knows. But they almost certainly do not think about it in Kiev. This is rhetoric before the NATO summit in Vilnius. But if the Ukrainian authorities speak seriously, they will have to do a lot of work without much practical meaning.
It must be said that certain stereotypes have developed around the term "NATO standards". As an example, usually given the difference in the calibers of small weapons. Although in reality the 5,56-mm American automatic weapons are similar in caliber to the Soviet-Russian 5,45-mm AK-74 machine gun. It's all about the measurement technique.

But it's not even in calibers. It is not so much that the Ukrainian armed forces will be forced to buy only weapons and equipment of the "NATO" type. The problem is that the standardization of NATO covers almost all areas of the military component of the block - from standards for helmets and ammunition, weapons, communications, to staff procedures and guidelines, operational activities and even training for work in multinational headquarters.

Achieving compliance with all these diverse requirements is the most difficult. In particular, the Ukrainians will have a global replacement of equipment in the management structures at all levels, the transition (at least in the field of communications) from Soviet analog systems to digital ones.

The problem extends to the provision of modern technology according to NATO standards, not only of the central management structures, but also of lower military units. When purchasing a new technology, the orientation on standards is obligatory. Since 1989, in the framework of standardization and planning in the field of armaments in NATO, the Conventional Armaments Planning Systems (CAPS) system has been in operation, designed to guide member countries in choosing weapons programs. And here Kiev has to find a balance between NATO norms and the interests of the Ukrainian military industrial complex.

As for the future military-industrial complex of Ukraine in case of transition to NATO standards, there are two mutually exclusive opinions. Ukraine inherited from the USSR more than 2 thousand enterprises engaged in the production of weapons. Not all of them release the final product. In Ukraine, for example, engines for ballistic missiles, fighters and helicopters are produced, aviation missiles, gas turbines for warships and radar systems. Today, Ukrainian industry, using years of established contacts, is actively cooperating with the Russian defense industry.

Pessimists believe that breaking bilateral military-industrial ties will mean its collapse. “It's not just that this requires investments measured in tens of billions of dollars. NATO is simply not interested in the existence of the military-industrial complex of Ukraine. Transitions to NATO standards means simply closing the military-industrial complex, since NATO has its own developed military-industrial complex. And the wreckage of the post-Soviet military-industrial complex of NATO simply does not need ", - said political scientist Stanislav Belkovsky. "No one will give tens of billions of dollars where it is easier to close," the expert believes.

Optimists, meanwhile, remind us that NATO (so far, in any case) does not require either a reduction, or a rearmament of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, or an obligatory refusal from military-technical cooperation with Russia. A prerequisite is interoperability with the armed forces of NATO member countries. That is, the ability to act together during operations, and not the requirement to be armed with the same guns of the same caliber as in other countries.

An example of this can be the former socialist countries that are now members of NATO. They are still in service with Soviet-made equipment and weapons. In general, up to 40% of arsenals of new members of NATO from Central and Eastern Europe consist of weapons and products of Soviet and Russian production. So many experts do not see the relationship between problems in the Ukrainian military industrial complex and the transition to NATO standards.

The military-technical cooperation of Ukraine with Russia will not suffer at all, says Ivan Konovalov, director of the Center for Strategic Conjuncture:

"Our military-technical cooperation is based on the principles of mutual benefit. We, for example, need engines for helicopters. And we get them in Ukraine. We have cooperation on a missile program. We have serious cooperation on aviation programs. True, here we cannot finally agree on a whole range of aircraft due to the political component. In general, the fate of various Russian-Ukrainian programs of military-technical cooperation depends too much on the political factor. But the transition to NATO standards Mouths will not affect this cooperation.

This will not affect the Ukrainian military-industrial complex in any way. He has his own development path. For example, in tank Ukraine Ukraine cooperates with many countries. Another thing is that a lot has to be changed. "

There is an opinion that this would be beneficial for the Ukrainian military industrial complex. After all, the transition to NATO standards in the field of armaments can significantly expand the opportunities and markets for Ukrainian military equipment and weapons.

If business was limited only to commercial reasons, there would be nothing to fuss. But in a broad sense, NATO’s requirements for uniformity are not only a register of technical requirements and names for weapons systems and military equipment, operational planning and management structures, and other military concepts. Standards include the legal framework. According to them, the internal legislation of Ukraine should be compatible with the basic provisions and mechanisms adopted in the Alliance. For example, according to the NATO legislative standard, the upper boundary of defense spending is 2% of GDP. How far the Ukrainian economy can meet these requirements is a big question.

In general, the transition to NATO standards is not a military-technical, but an economic and political problem. We, in fact, are talking about the historical choice of Ukraine, since standardization with the Alliance is a transition to the Western sphere of influence. In this case, all the talk about preserving the non-aligned status of the country is a simple shaking of the air.

World experience shows that neutrality is politically and economically unprofitable today. Its provision requires significant financial resources. Ukraine is not in a position to maintain neutrality. It is either here or there, without any intermediate provisions. The fundamental importance of the choice is so high that it is in itself capable of stopping the drift of the country towards the West.

Says Ivan Konovalov, Director of the Center for Strategic Conjuncture:

“Certain tendencies, of course, exist. Ukraine has never concealed a potential readiness to join NATO. But I would not say that the adoption of NATO standards indicates that Ukraine intends to join the bloc. This is rather a declaration of intent. Moreover I can hardly believe that the government and parliament of Ukraine will be able to agree on this issue. "

In general, you can switch to NATO calibers, have different types of weapons and military equipment, including from the Alliance’s arsenals, armed with your army. You can wear a uniform tailored according to the NATO model, but the main thing is different.

The country's armed forces remain as long as an instrument of state policy, as long as they are led by the national command using their own command and control system. As soon as this function is transferred to supranational structures, sovereignty can only be dreamed of. This should be remembered by those Ukrainian politicians who are pushing their country onto the path of standardization with NATO: "The claw is stuck - the whole bird is gone."
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  1. il grand casino
    il grand casino 26 September 2013 15: 54 New
    13
    Ah, Ukraine, Ukraine ... My grandmother’s homeland ... Chegozh you need to be in NATO (well, if you still decide on it, and not just decide to rebuild according to their standards)
    1. Natalia
      Natalia 26 September 2013 16: 19 New
      +9
      Quote: il grand casino
      Chegozh you need to NATO (well, if it is still decided, and not only their standards will decide to rebuild)

      An old song ... only for this NATA they will be forced to cut a couple of cruisers, and a couple of dozen fighters under the knife, the reason: they do not meet the NATA standards.
      After all, it’s no secret that Ukraine doesn’t need a strong NATA.
      1. self-propelled
        self-propelled 26 September 2013 17: 19 New
        +4
        Quote: Natalia
        An old song ... only for this NATA they will make them cut a couple more cruisers, and a couple dozen fighters under the knife

        даже без всех этих "разрезаний", интересно, в какую сумму выльется Украине переход на НАТОвские стандарты -
        The problem is that NATO standardization covers almost all areas of activity of the military component of the bloc - from standards for helmets and ammunition, weapons, communications, to headquarters procedures and guidance documents, operational activities, and even to training specialists for work in multinational headquarters
        , учитывая, что и сейчас на украинскую армию выделяется не так уж и много средств? или помогут "партнеры" из НАТО? так бесплатный сыр бывает только в мышеловке... request
        1. Nicholas C.
          Nicholas C. 26 September 2013 17: 41 New
          +8
          Quote: Author Sergey Duz
          For example, according to NATO's legislative standard, the upper limit of defense spending is 2% of GDP. How much the Ukrainian economy can meet these requirements is a big question.

          What a false Jesuit article
          "Крупнейшие военные расходы [%ВВП] характерны в 2012 году для Саудовской Аравии (8,26%), Омана (6,42%), Израиля (5,99%), Йемена (5,50%), United States (4,91%)" военный-пенсионер.рф/main/2978-oboronnye-byudzhety-ssha-vpered
          i-planety-vsey.html

          Quote: Author Sergey Duz
          Everyone who chose the strategy of Western development moved there through NATO ... It was supported by the vast majority of the population of Ukraine.

          The Jesuits love the people of Ukraine to tell him for what he people support.

          It would be better if an all-Ukrainian referendum was held instead of a constitutional coup.
      2. tomket
        tomket 26 September 2013 21: 24 New
        0
        why don't you need it? You can, for example, send the eaters of a famous product to Syria to fight, and NATO will support them with a kind word.
    2. MG42
      MG42 26 September 2013 20: 13 New
      +8
      Quote: il grand casino
      Chegozh you need to NATO (well, if it is still decided, and not only their standards will decide to rebuild)


      What is NATO? Without the MAP and the Black Sea Fleet base in Crimea and the referendum, this problem cannot be solved. As for the rearmament of the army, there really is no money, now in Ukraine the peak is the payment of money on foreign debts ..
      1. regsSSSR
        regsSSSR 26 September 2013 23: 48 New
        0
        Quote: MG42

        What is NATO? Without the MAP and the Black Sea Fleet base in Crimea and the referendum, this problem cannot be solved. As for the rearmament of the army, there really is no money, now in Ukraine the peak is the payment of money on foreign debts ..


        welcome!
        I heard on the news that it seems like Russia allots Ukraine $ 750 milyunits for a small percentage and without any requirements! this desperate goodwill gesture is very vaguely similar to bribery or the last attempt to somehow influence the decision of the authorities and the people on the problem of non-residency to join the TS but to some extent will help Ukraine to return the IMF money (and also borrow it from them again))
        a link to the infa kazhelenoy nedam because I heard casually on the radio in the car, and as you know, the link doesn’t))
        1. Corneli
          Corneli 27 September 2013 03: 19 New
          0
          Quote: regressSSSR
          I heard on the news that it seems like Russia allots Ukraine $ 750 milyunits for a small percentage and without any requirements!

          If I remember correctly, this is a loan (advance for transit) but the pumping of gas into gas storage facilities for Europe. Negotiations like current ended, our authorities did not want to buy some more gas, they said that there was enough for transit and ourselves. Gazprom insisted on an additional ...
          1. regsSSSR
            regsSSSR 27 September 2013 04: 54 New
            0
            you know about gas, I didn’t hear a word there — they said that the money was given to the Ukrainian side to pay off state debt in the IMF and everything seems to be. Well, you know, if I collect information all the same, I will drop the link for you
            1. Corneli
              Corneli 27 September 2013 14: 55 New
              0
              Quote: regressSSSR
              you know about gas, I didn’t hear a word there — they said that the money was given to the Ukrainian side to pay off state debt in the IMF and everything seems to be. Well, you know, if I collect information all the same, I will drop the link for you

              Perhaps something else that I remembered from the recent, I said)
      2. smirnov
        smirnov 27 September 2013 00: 12 New
        +1
        "Наглядный пример – история с Ющенко. Он принял эту линию. Она была поддержана подавляющим большинством населения Украины." -Что то я не припомню поддержки "подавляющего "большинства...
  2. andrei332809
    andrei332809 26 September 2013 15: 59 New
    +4
    [quot] moved there through NATO [/ quote]
    I want to rephrase repeat
  3. JonnyT
    JonnyT 26 September 2013 16: 04 New
    +5
    I’m what I think if Ukraine nevertheless somehow miraculously enters into NATO, then it will definitely fall apart ........ and everything after it and NATO itself
    1. bif
      bif 26 September 2013 17: 43 New
      +6
      The author explains that the transition to NATO standards does not mean anything, this is a procedure before joining the EU, and Ukraine was told in the EU that they will not wait until 2025 for a year ...
      "..нужно сказать, что Украина в данном случае серьезно рискует. Если только что-то произойдет в сдвиге Украины в сторону Европы или НАТО, это гарантировано приведет к потере Украиной Севастополя и всего Крыма. Здесь Путин не станет колебаться. Пусть те господа, которые сидят и пишут ноты будущего членства Украины в НАТО, даже не тратят времени даром. До этого не дойдет. Как только начнется какой-то дрейф Украины в ЕС и НАТО, мы все станем свидетелями колоссального экономического давления. Путин легко и просто может обанкротить Украину в течение полугода. И никакая Меркель спасти Украину не сможет всего лишь по той причине, что даже если она засыплет Украину деньгами (чего конечно же не будет), то денежки эти быстро притырят по карманам всевозможные дети Януковича, Пинчуки и иже с ними.." http://contrpost.com/ru/78-2013-05-10-13-45-19/3345-ukraina-mezhdu-strakhom-i-so
      vestyu
  4. sined0707
    sined0707 26 September 2013 16: 07 New
    25
    Yes kokaya nah NATA, the people in the coffin saw it all, Won't be there. Clowns are pushing the price for themselves, so what would Russia spoil, where would it be without it. Sooner or later, everything will come back, well, we will not be in Europe is unnatural. These politicians have already waved people: (((((, I hope I will live to see the day when it all ends.
    1. Sergh
      Sergh 26 September 2013 16: 22 New
      +7
      Quote: sined0707
      Clowns are pushing the price for themselves, so what would Russia spoil, where would it be without it. Sooner or later, everything will come back, well, we will not be in Europe is unnatural. These politicians have already waved people

      Here are the clowns! Interestingly, do these clowns smoke in you? Well, just like about the Canadian black bears.

      1. MG42
        MG42 26 September 2013 20: 06 New
        +3
        Quote: Sergh
        Here are the clowns!

        Canadian Russian-language television program mixtv.ca
        Leading Tatyana Subbotina.
        Та же канадская ведущая интервью на канадском суржике >>
      2. Natalia
        Natalia 26 September 2013 20: 48 New
        +1
        Quote: Sergh
        ........ about Canadian black bears.

        lol laughing laughing ))))) .... according to the police, when they discovered the plantation, they saw that bears were sitting next to the marijuana beds laughing laughing laughing ........ and also smoke)))))))))))))))))))))))))))

        PS classss! good ))))))))))))
        1. Sergh
          Sergh 26 September 2013 23: 03 New
          +1
          Quote: Natalia
          and also smoke))

          All thirteen in a row ... sitting bears ... at least they were already ...

          Itself almost oversubscribed, the plague finally !!!
          1. Natalia
            Natalia 26 September 2013 23: 49 New
            +1
            Quote: Sergh
            All thirteen in a row ... sitting bears ... at least they were already ...

            yeah .... finally can acheum))))))))))))))
            cool, cool good
    2. alexng
      alexng 26 September 2013 16: 23 New
      +1
      Что-то в мире маразм крепчает. Живут одним днем, не думая о том, что будет завтра. Похоже целенаправленно 'банкротят' Украину. Только вот зачем? Если, конечно, не хотят загнать её в каменный век, а так не вижу ни какой логики в действиях украинских политиков.
      1. Guun
        Guun 26 September 2013 16: 43 New
        +3
        My opinion is that they want to base the United States in Ukraine and to justify - and for this they need a reason. Only here from the people who for and against Russia will use them - people from corporations the world over the world will give weapons - a new hot spot. Yes, but will they succeed?
        1. GREAT RUSSIA
          GREAT RUSSIA 26 September 2013 17: 45 New
          +3
          Quote: Guun
          My opinion is that they want to base the United States in Ukraine and to justify - and for this they need a reason. Only here from the people who for and against Russia will use them - people from corporations the world over the world will give weapons - a new hot spot. Yes, but will they succeed?

          Nobody will establish a US base. They will destroy the Ukrainian army (remember the news about the reduction of the Ukrainian tank fleet from T-62 tanks by 2000, that is, the complete destruction of the tank reserve.) And Ukraine’s entry into the EU means the collapse of its entire economy. remember 80% of the entire industry of Ukraine lives on orders from RUSSIA. Moreover, Ukrainian goods will not withstand competition against European ones.
          1. alone
            alone 26 September 2013 19: 22 New
            0
            Quote: GREAT RUSSIA
            .They will destroy the army of Ukraine (remember the news about the reduction of the tank fleet of Ukraine from T-62 tanks by 2000, i.e., the complete destruction of the tank reserve.)


            if memory serves, it is a T-64, not a T-62. these are different tanks dear Ibrahim
            1. Kars
              Kars 26 September 2013 19: 27 New
              +2
              Quote: lonely
              if memory serves, it is t-64, not t-62.

              And if for me, then this news has not been confirmed by anyone.
              1. alone
                alone 26 September 2013 19: 55 New
                0
                right Kars. there was only a message from some kind of information agency. I just fixed the error. 2000 t-64 was stored in Ukraine, and not t-62.
                1. Kars
                  Kars 26 September 2013 20: 04 New
                  +1
                  Vryatli there is so much and storage is too much said.
                  1. GREAT RUSSIA
                    GREAT RUSSIA 26 September 2013 20: 30 New
                    0
                    Dear Kars. You, as a resident and citizen of Ukraine, are better versed in the army of Ukraine. I ask you, you can provide me with information about the current size of the army of Ukraine. I looked for old information.
                    1. Kars
                      Kars 26 September 2013 20: 39 New
                      +1
                      Quote: GREAT RUSSIA
                      I ask you, you can provide me with information on the current strength of the Ukrainian army. I looked for old information.


                      why are you interested?
                      Somewhere between 150-170 thousand
                      1. GREAT RUSSIA
                        GREAT RUSSIA 26 September 2013 20: 50 New
                        0
                        Quote: Kars
                        why are you interested?

                        This is so not to be mistaken.
                        Quote: Kars
                        Somewhere between 150-170 thousand

                        Understood with respect, Thank you very much! hi
                      2. GREAT RUSSIA
                        GREAT RUSSIA 26 September 2013 21: 01 New
                        0
                        By the way, Kars, you noticed that our discussion took half of all comments. wassat And all because of one joke.
                      3. Kars
                        Kars 26 September 2013 21: 07 New
                        +1
                        Quote: GREAT RUSSIA
                        you noticed that our discussion is half of all comments

                        No, you exaggerate. But I'm glad to be diligent.
                2. alone
                  alone 26 September 2013 22: 28 New
                  0
                  Quote: Kars
                  Vryatli there is so much and storage is too much said.


                  maybe you know better. but this is most likely a mine dump of armored vehicles than storage, and it is unlikely that such equipment will be useful to the Ukrainian army. hi
                  1. Kars
                    Kars 26 September 2013 23: 57 New
                    +1
                    Quote: lonely
                    and this is probably a dump of armored vehicles

                    Not a landfill looks different.
                    Quote: lonely
                    hardly such a technique is useful to the Ukrainian army.

                    With the capabilities of Ukrainian tank repair plants, they would be useful. Only there are too many of them for the Ukrainian army.
          2. GREAT RUSSIA
            GREAT RUSSIA 26 September 2013 19: 43 New
            0
            Quote: lonely
            Quote: GREAT RUSSIA
            .They will destroy the army of Ukraine (remember the news about the reduction of the tank fleet of Ukraine from T-62 tanks by 2000, i.e., the complete destruction of the tank reserve.)


            if memory serves, it is a T-64, not a T-62. these are different tanks dear Ibrahim

            I sincerely apologize, the memory failed.
    3. Misantrop
      Misantrop 26 September 2013 19: 58 New
      +4
      Quote: alexneg
      I don’t see any logic in the actions of Ukrainian politicians.
      "Не ищите в заднице шоколада, там его нет" (с) request Ukrainian politicians are not compatible with logic, they do not know it. They simply EARN money, and - on EVERYTHING, for which they will pay. Morality, election promises, common sense, etc. already thrown far and forever, the main thing for them is to catch it before it starts ...
  5. Semen Semyonitch
    Semen Semyonitch 26 September 2013 16: 57 New
    0
    Of course you will live)))
  • Fin
    Fin 26 September 2013 16: 16 New
    +2
    Strange article. Ukraine is joining NATO, but no need to pay attention to this.
    Украина переходит на стандарты НАТО."Я думаю, что нет смысла придавать этому документу большое значение.

    Each paper lies for the time being.
    Where Ukraine will take the money, no one knows. But almost certainly in Kiev they don’t think about it.

    They will give a loan and customize their weapons.
    In general, the fate of various Russian-Ukrainian programs of military-technical cooperation depends too much on the political factor. But the transition to NATO standards will not affect this cooperation in any way.
    This will not affect the Ukrainian military-industrial complex in any way. He has his own development path. For example, in the tank area, Ukraine cooperates with many countries.

    Временно не повлияет, соответствующие заводы строятся. А про танки вчера читали. Два "Оплота" отверточной сборки, и заваленный контракт.

    Now Ukraine is signing everything in a row just to join the EU at least somehow. It is a pity that the people will have to rake.
  • velikoros-xnumx
    velikoros-xnumx 26 September 2013 16: 41 New
    12
    NATO - Нnational Аamerican Тterrorist Оorganization - the most appropriate decoding of the abbreviation, corresponding to reality soldier .By the way in Latin-English transcription is also consistent.
  • major071
    major071 26 September 2013 16: 42 New
    +7
    Yes, denezhek on the transition to NATO standards need a lot. And they simply are not.
    Switch to a standard dry soldier of a NATO soldier, but without Ukrainian fat? They do not need such standards.
    1. GREAT RUSSIA
      GREAT RUSSIA 26 September 2013 17: 19 New
      +7
      Quote: major071
      Yes, denezhek on the transition to NATO standards need a lot. And they simply are not.
      Switch to a standard dry soldier of a NATO soldier, but without Ukrainian fat? They do not need such standards.

      NATO needs Ukraine as a bridgehead for the further strangulation of RUSSIA within the borders. Ukraine has cannon fodder for NATO and no more. Once they use it, they will abandon it. And those who are in the government are the same traitors as humpbacked and Yeltsin. They have already sold their country to the ruin of Ukraine. They they well understand that in the east of Ukraine Russians mainly live in Crimea, too. In the west, Poles, Bendera and other peoples gravitate towards the west. Ukrainians live in all its areas. But the fact is that the older generation understands perfectly well that Ukraine has no RUSSIA there is no future. The problem is that young people are already becoming corrupted. These fucking liberals began to introduce anti-RUSSIAN policies in all spheres, including in the field of education. In this way they increase nationalism and pursue a policy of demonizing RUSSIA so that future generations do not doubt it a suicidal decision. But the Ukrainian people can stop all this chaos, I believe in it. Otherwise, nothing will save Ukraine.
      1. Kars
        Kars 26 September 2013 17: 41 New
        +1
        Quote: major071
        Yes, denezhek on the transition to NATO standards need a lot. And they simply are not.

        Well, NATO standards are considered a priori better than cash. At the same time, you can switch to them, or rather, change the current ones for a very long time, while the current funds will go to it, all the whining here is that the Ukrainian army has everything outdated and so on.
        Quote: GREAT RUSSIA
        Switch to a standard dry soldier of a NATO soldier, but without Ukrainian fat?

        Is there a standard NATO ration? And something tells me that the NATO standard ration itself is much more diverse than the current one.

        Quote: GREAT RUSSIA
        .Ukraine cannon fodder for NATO and no more.

        Do you think NATO has little cannon fodder? And do they even use it?
        Quote: GREAT RUSSIA
        In this way they increase nationalism spend n

        Nationalism could be in the USSR. Now it is generally called patriotism.
        1. GREAT RUSSIA
          GREAT RUSSIA 26 September 2013 17: 57 New
          +2
          Quote: Kars
          Is there a standard NATO ration? And something tells me that the NATO standard ration itself is much more diverse than the current one.

          This NATO ration should not be a big argument if the fate of an entire country is decided at stake.
          Quote: Kars
          Do you think NATO has little cannon fodder? And do they even use it?

          Very little, and as they say good deed does not happen.
          Quote: Kars
          Nationalism could be in the USSR. Now it is generally called patriotism.
          Patriotism is the same basis of the state as internationalism. Nationalism is now two kinds. 1-liberalism; 2-nationalism itself.
          In general, it should be understood that Ukraine’s NATO is not needed, stern as cannon fodder. You think that paradise European life awaits you, and your army will shine. ERROR. Time will pass and then we will see what NATO has done for you. From your economy and they won’t leave stone upon stone. Your army will be crushed. And your people will be used for their own purposes. Once again I say Ukraine, save yourself! Ukraine’s place next to fraternal peoples like Belarusians and Russians is the only way. And no Europe is your friend.
          1. Kars
            Kars 26 September 2013 18: 15 New
            +4
            Quote: GREAT RUSSIA
            This NATO ration should not be a big argument if the fate of an entire country is decided at stake.

            what a pompous syllable. And I personally do not see any special connection between NATO standards and the fate of the country.
            Quote: GREAT RUSSIA
            Very little and as they say good deed does not happen

            So what prevents them from hiding migrants from Africa?
            Quote: GREAT RUSSIA
            Patriotism is the same basis of the state as internationalism. Nationalism is now two kinds. 1-liberalism; 2-nationalism itself.

            Not internationalism - dismiss Afghanistan abound. And something is everywhere at the end -ism)) And by the way, to distinguish between patriotism and nationalism))))
            Quote: GREAT RUSSIA
            In general, it should be understood that Ukraine’s NATO is not needed, stern as cannon fodder

            you mumble about cannon fodder isn’t tired? What is it in your understanding, decrypt? Do you think they will send a living wave to machine guns?))))
            Quote: GREAT RUSSIA
            and your army will shine.

            Why should she shine? And heavenly life - well, these are just fairy tales, you don’t believe in it.
            Quote: GREAT RUSSIA
            The place of Ukraine next to fraternal peoples like Belarusians and Russians is the only way

            Type there will be paradise life?
            1. GREAT RUSSIA
              GREAT RUSSIA 26 September 2013 18: 24 New
              0
              Apparently you are a supporter of Ukraine’s accession to NATO in the EU. Well, let's see who gets this
              Quote: Kars
              you mumble

              No one mumbled.
              Quote: Kars
              Type there will be paradise life?
              And you look with whom Ukraine is more profitable with the Customs Union (CU) or with the EU.
              Quote: Kars
              So what prevents them from hiding migrants from Africa?

              Because these migrants are so full of throat and they are much more dangerous.
              Quote: Kars
              And I personally do not see any special connection between NATO standards and the fate of the country.

              So take this into account. If your leadership wanted, it would have rations 100 times better than the NATO one.
              1. Kars
                Kars 26 September 2013 18: 33 New
                +3
                Quote: GREAT RUSSIA
                Apparently you are a supporter of Ukraine joining NATO in the EU

                I am a supporter of the non-aligned nature of Ukraine. And the EU is a too distant prospect.
                Quote: GREAT RUSSIA
                No one mumbled.

                now deny.
                Quote: GREAT RUSSIA
                And you look with whom Ukraine is more profitable with the Customs Union (CU) or with the EU.

                And you naturally think that with the TS, only you won’t be able to prove it with examples. Something I don’t see paradise life in Belorusi and Kazakhstan, although today I can perfectly see the bickering about Baikonur.
                Quote: GREAT RUSSIA
                Because these migrants are so throaty

                You contradict yourself
                Quote: GREAT RUSSIA
                Very little, and as they say good deed does not happen.

                Quote: GREAT RUSSIA
                they are much more dangerous.
                what is this?

                Quote: GREAT RUSSIA
                So take note of this
                I do not believe in words like you, and I don’t believe in such a nickname.

                Quote: GREAT RUSSIA
                .If your leadership wanted it, then it would ransack 100 times better than the NATO one.

                So has the leadership of Great Russia already acted?
                1. GREAT RUSSIA
                  GREAT RUSSIA 26 September 2013 18: 58 New
                  -1
                  Quote: Kars
                  The EU is too far a prospect.

                  Agree
                  Quote: Kars
                  now deny.
                  No one bothers. And in general, where did you find me to mumble?
                  Quote: Kars
                  And you naturally think that with the TS, only you won’t be able to prove it with examples. Something I don’t see paradise life in Belorusi and Kazakhstan, although today I can perfectly see the bickering about Baikonur.

                  No one said that heavenly life will come like this in 10 years.
                  Quote: Kars
                  You contradict yourself
                  I do not contradict myself
                  Quote: Kars
                  Very little, and as they say good deed does not happen.

                  This refers to the state of cannon fodder, and not the number of people.
                  Quote: Kars
                  they are much more dangerous. what is it?
                  Because they are poorly educated people. And they steal, I kill and rape. And all this rabble is difficult to control. Look at the situation with migrants in Italy and France.
                  Quote: Kars
                  So, take that into account I say to words like you, and I don’t believe anyone like that.

                  This is your business.
                  Quote: Kars
                  So has the leadership of Great Russia already acted?

                  Watch the news that the rations of RUSSIAN soldiers will begin to improve, as Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu spoke about this.
                  1. Kars
                    Kars 26 September 2013 19: 05 New
                    +3
                    Quote: GREAT RUSSIA
                    Agree

                    Wow.
                    Quote: GREAT RUSSIA
                    No one bothers. And in general, where did you find me to mumble?

                    There is no other name for cannon fodder.
                    Quote: GREAT RUSSIA
                    No one said that heavenly life will come like this in 10 years.

                    And when? How is communism in 2000?
                    Quote: GREAT RUSSIA
                    I do not contradict myself

                    contradict

                    Quote: GREAT RUSSIA
                    This refers to the state of cannon fodder, and not the number of people.

                    You will drive the state on machine guns? And how much cannon fodder do you need?
                    Quote: GREAT RUSSIA
                    Because they are poorly mannered people. And they steal kill and rape

                    )))) in your cannon fodder lives long?
                    Quote: GREAT RUSSIA
                    This is your business

                    by the way and nickname Great Russia is an expression of nationalism or patriotism?
                    Quote: GREAT RUSSIA
                    Watch the news that the rations of RUSSIAN soldiers will begin to improve, as Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu spoke about this.

                    And? It is 100 times better than NATO.
                    1. alone
                      alone 26 September 2013 19: 26 New
                      +1
                      hi Ibrahim, which way is needed for Ukraine, is better known to the citizens and people of Ukraine. There is no reason to persuade them. Whether the union will be useful or not, the Ukrainians themselves will bear responsibility. And their benefit will be, and not benefit. I think it’s time to leave them at rest. let them figure out what is beneficial for them
                      1. GREAT RUSSIA
                        GREAT RUSSIA 26 September 2013 20: 03 New
                        +1
                        I agree. This is the business of the Ukrainian people. Omar completely agree with you. Who is right and who is not will judge history and GOD.
                      2. polly
                        polly 26 September 2013 23: 32 New
                        +1
                        But after all, the people did not ask about this, did not hold a referendum, or am I not in the know?
          2. Misantrop
            Misantrop 26 September 2013 20: 06 New
            0
            Quote: Kars
            So what prevents them from hiding migrants from Africa?

            Some have already been harnessed. Apparently, I don’t want to ... lol
            1. Kars
              Kars 26 September 2013 20: 13 New
              +2
              Quote: Misantrop
              Some have already been harnessed. Apparently, I don’t want to ...

              Well do not say, do not say.

              I would have made a choice, I would have put money on blacks. They have been fighting there for 6 years.
      2. Misantrop
        Misantrop 26 September 2013 20: 03 New
        +1
        Quote: Kars
        The rations of the NATO standard itself are much more diverse than the current one.

        Diversified, I do not argue, tried. His UN observer officers in Abkhazia enthusiastically exchanged for Russian as soon as possible. Oh, crazy, right?
        1. Kars
          Kars 26 September 2013 20: 08 New
          +2
          Quote: Misantrop
          His UN observer officers in Abkhazia enthusiastically exchanged for Russian as soon as possible. Oh, crazy, right?

          By the way, is it pure NATO at the UN? A friend told me when he was in Lebanon as part of the UN peacekeepers, corporal punishment was used in the neighboring part))))

          Yes, and if it’s honestly - everything is probably priedatsa. Sometimes, and Borodino bread wants)))
          1. GREAT RUSSIA
            GREAT RUSSIA 26 September 2013 20: 59 New
            0
            Oh, yes, I support. I also want to drink kvass, and this, and not this chemistry that they sell to us.
      3. novobranets
        novobranets 26 September 2013 20: 13 New
        0
        Quote: Kars
        and something tells me that the ration of the NATO standard itself is much more diverse than the current one.

        With regards to rations, the variety is large, but eating this soya rubbish is possible only with great hunger.
  • Aleks tv
    Aleks tv 26 September 2013 17: 11 New
    +1
    Under the standards of NATO (Not Enough Adequate Terrorist Organization) say ...

    Hloptsi ki kudi ???
    Think for yourself who needs you there....
    Eheh ...
  • StrateG
    StrateG 26 September 2013 17: 15 New
    0
    It’s like the way to business lies through the bed .. in the variant with Ukraine, the way to happiness lies through NATO.
    1. MG42
      MG42 26 September 2013 20: 20 New
      +2
      Quote: StrateG
      It's like going to business through the bed ..

      You meant SHOWbusiness, not just business
      Quote: StrateG
      in the variant with Ukraine, the path to happiness lies through NATO.

      Actually, in Ukraine all media are talking about the association, about NATO in local news there is nothing even on Channel 5 .. only in Svidomo heads .. wink
  • Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 26 September 2013 17: 20 New
    +1
    You always need to ask the question: who needs Ukraine to join NATO? The people of Ukraine -? This is not heard from people. All this fuss is conducted by the ruling circles of the country. Trying to get momentary political benefits (especially in dialogues with Russia), the country's leaders can take a step that will lead Ukraine into the camp of our probable enemies. Let's see, the future will show.
  • knn54
    knn54 26 September 2013 17: 21 New
    +3
    According to the Constitution, Ukraine is an outside bloc country.
    According to the NATO charter, Ukraine cannot be accepted because there is a military base on the territory of a country outside the Alliance.
    PS I am tormented by vague doubts — Verkhovna Rada turns into the Verkhovna Rada ...
  • AIR-ZNAK
    AIR-ZNAK 26 September 2013 17: 22 New
    +3
    What is NATO? By and large: these are a few of the most economically developed countries, led by overseas and the rest is a trifle, mongrels whose opinion does not interest anyone. If Ukraine wants this, it will get its own booth and Pedigri. The question is different: what about national pride after that? Unless, of course, national pride is not toilet paper for the West? And is there any at all at the moment?
    1. GREAT RUSSIA
      GREAT RUSSIA 26 September 2013 17: 39 New
      +1
      Quote: AIR-ZNAK
      What is NATO? By and large: these are a few of the most economically developed countries, led by overseas and the rest is a trifle, mongrels whose opinion interests no one

      NATO is a military entity that serves as a tool in the hands of the United States of America. And also all politicians and generals in NATO are completely bribed by the United States, which would thus suppress any sovereign aspirations of politicians from different states. This is my definition. I don’t know. Sovereigns in this sense mean the desire to remove the bondage of dependence on the United States and become a state that itself solves problems.
    2. gyl
      gyl 26 September 2013 21: 40 New
      +1
      In fact, NATO issues are decided by consensus. And your neglect of smaller countries perfectly characterizes any alliance with Russia.
  • crest 57
    crest 57 26 September 2013 17: 28 New
    +6
    Цитата: "Она была поддержана ПОДАВЛЯЮЩИМ БОЛЬШИНСТВОМ населения Украины."
    Why don’t I remember that there was a referendum !!!
    1. GREAT RUSSIA
      GREAT RUSSIA 26 September 2013 17: 40 New
      +7
      Quote: crest 57
      Цитата: "Она была поддержана ПОДАВЛЯЮЩИМ БОЛЬШИНСТВОМ населения Украины."
      Why don’t I remember that there was a referendum !!!

      No one had held a referendum, but if there had been a referendum for the shooting of Yanukovych and his entire retinue, then 99% would have voted for it.
      1. JIaIIoTb
        JIaIIoTb 26 September 2013 17: 48 New
        +4
        Kars would vote against laughing
        Judging by his statements, everything suits him.
        1. GREAT RUSSIA
          GREAT RUSSIA 26 September 2013 17: 59 New
          0
          Quote: JIaIIoTb
          Kars would vote against laughing
          Judging by his statements, everything suits him.

          And why? Dear explain, I do not understand you. Explain, if it does not complicate the COMRADE.
          1. alone
            alone 26 September 2013 19: 31 New
            +3
            I have an impression that some forum users want that everyone who is here in the forum should think the same way.
            do not forget that we are all human beings, not programmed robots. everyone has a right to their opinion. instead, to desperately prove that Ukrainians feel bad and what’s good, better prove with evidence that the EU is better.

            П.С. "в ЕС все геи,вы после подписания станете геями!" такие аргументы не в счет)) laughing
            1. GREAT RUSSIA
              GREAT RUSSIA 26 September 2013 20: 04 New
              0
              Don’t worry, I’m not one of those people on this site. Everyone has their own opinion.
              Quote: lonely
              П.С. "в ЕС все геи,вы после подписания станете геями!" такие аргументы не в счет))

              P.S. I completely agree with you, such arguments do not count. Although it is ridiculous. laughing
      2. MG42
        MG42 26 September 2013 20: 23 New
        +3
        Quote: GREAT RUSSIA
        But if there had been a referendum for the shooting of Yanukovych and his entire retinue, then 99% would have voted for it.

        Meanwhile Yanukovych met with Obama yesterday >>
        Yanukovych also said that he had discussed with Obama the topic of Ukraine’s European integration. "Я сказал, что мы идем по этому пути уверенно, и эта информация была также принята"- said the President of Ukraine.

        Recall that Yanukovych is on an official visit to the United States, where he takes part in the session of the UN General Assembly. In addition to meeting with Obama, Yanukovych spoke with EU leaders, as well as presidents of the countries of the Friends of Ukraine Group.

        http://korrespondent.net/ukraine/politics/1607211-yanukovich-rasskazal-o-chem-ob


        shchalsya-s-obamoj
        1. GREAT RUSSIA
          GREAT RUSSIA 26 September 2013 20: 49 New
          +1
          Thanks a lot, looked with respect hi
      3. gyl
        gyl 26 September 2013 21: 41 New
        0
        Let him bring us to Europe first.
  • vladsolo56
    vladsolo56 26 September 2013 17: 55 New
    +5
    Everyone who chose a Western development strategy moved there through NATO. And Ukraine will not succeed in avoiding this if it wants to finally break with Russia.

    But I strongly doubt that it will work out. A good example is the story of Yushchenko. He took this line. She was supported by the vast majority of the population of Ukraine.

    Where did such nonsense come from when this overwhelming majority of the population of Ukraine sought NATO?
    1. Corneli
      Corneli 26 September 2013 18: 37 New
      +1
      Quote: vladsolo56
      Where did such nonsense come from when this overwhelming majority of the population of Ukraine sought NATO?

      Ну подумаешь автор "немножко" преувеличил!) Зато как звучит! laughing как и вся статья собственно, сделаем из мухи слона и устром кипишь по этому поводу... во всей статье ключевое слове есть НАТО! Половине форумчан, этого достаточно, чтоб запеть "старые песни о главном", ну там, предатели, бандеровцы, забрать Крым, геропецы и прочее...
      AND NOW! We read what was really and laugh !:
      "Президент Украины Виктор Янукович подписал указ "О годовых национальных программах сотрудничества Украина-НАТО", который будет действовать in return указа от 2009 года "О годовой национальной программе in preparation Ukraine to gain membership в Организации Североатлантического договора".
      "Изменения предусматривают приведение терминологии в соответствие с законодательно закрепленной политикой off-blocking, as well as improving the mechanism and deadline for the preparation, approval and implementation of annual national programs cooperation Украина-НАТО"
      1. novobranets
        novobranets 26 September 2013 20: 16 New
        0
        Quote: Corneli
        "Изменения предусматривают приведение терминологии в соответствие с законодательно закрепленной политикой внеблоковости, а также совершенствование механизма и срока подготовки, одобрения и реализации годовых национальных программ сотрудничества Украина-НАТО"

        What is this fever delirium? belay
        1. Corneli
          Corneli 27 September 2013 03: 08 New
          0
          Quote: novobranets
          What is this fever delirium? belay

          Это называеться "цитата". И кстате, я даже прочитал этот указ полностью) была идея поцитировать его (оригинал так сказать) самым крикливым, но потом плюнул я на это неблагодарное дело, шо в лоб, шо по лбу...все рано кому хочеться (а таких тут не мало) будут визжать: "смотрите Украина идет в НАТО!" Им не нужна правда, или то что опровергает их фантазии, им и так хорошо.
      2. regsSSSR
        regsSSSR 27 September 2013 00: 03 New
        0
        greet you again today Cornelius hi

        ha ha)) Okay, we talked about Crimea more than I wouldn’t write, I’m already tired of the same thing myself))
        but about NATO, as if there wasn’t actually, the sediment remains nevertheless untidy ((
        the very flexible and unstable policy of the Ukrainian authorities yesterday they wanted in the TC tomorrow in the EU! some want both here and there))) Yesterday they gathered in NATO! Today they want to be in non-blocks A TOMORROW! who knows who knows! where will the curve lead once again?

        tell me, it seems from Kiev, so I wanted to ask you, and you will go to the meeting in support of the vehicle?

        Fidget  Today, 18:24

        On September 29 in Kiev, a meeting of Ukrainian citizens will be held for the referendum "For the Customs Union!" ...................... Venue of the meeting is September 29 of 2013 of the year at the Spartak stadium in Kiev (Frunze str.) ...................... http://ungu.org/?p=9868

        Who can - come or join the propagandists in advance!
        1. Corneli
          Corneli 27 September 2013 03: 12 New
          0
          Quote: regressSSSR
          tell me, it seems from Kiev, so I wanted to ask you, and you will go to the meeting in support of the vehicle?

          Unfortunately, Saturday and Sunday mnu will have workers, so it is doubtful that I will break out, except for a very short time. By the way, why Spartak? Such things if you do it in the center or with the ability to go to the center (on the same Dynamo, for example) and from a kurenivka to the city center my mother is dear how much ... also uphill
          1. regsSSSR
            regsSSSR 27 September 2013 04: 47 New
            0
            Quote: Corneli
            Quote: regressSSSR
            tell me, it seems from Kiev, so I wanted to ask you, and you will go to the meeting in support of the vehicle?

            Unfortunately, Saturday and Sunday mnu will have workers, so it is doubtful that I will break out, except for a very short time. By the way, why Spartak? Such things if you do it in the center or with the ability to go to the center (on the same Dynamo, for example) and from a kurenivka to the city center my mother is dear how much ... also uphill


            Well, unfortunately, I’ve been to Kiev only a couple of times (although I really liked the city) and a few times I’ve been poorly aware of where and what is happening there. I’m better off asking the hostess for this comment (read below).
            but I believe that if there is an opportunity to go all the same, it’s necessary and still be with
            the more people there will be, the better it will probably be better. Maybe the future will be solved, and even not one) yes
  • GELEZNII_KAPUT
    GELEZNII_KAPUT 26 September 2013 18: 01 New
    +3
    Yes, they will simply give them credit to ensure that everything matches, and then they will remove the last port! fellow
  • tank 34
    tank 34 26 September 2013 18: 11 New
    0
    На счет не сокращения вооруженных сил, как то забывают украинские "деятели" что им выдвинули требование об утилизации всех танков т-64. Немного странно. Не правда ли???
  • Jake danzels
    Jake danzels 26 September 2013 18: 24 New
    +2
    Quote: JonnyT
    I’m what I think if Ukraine nevertheless somehow miraculously enters into NATO, then it will definitely fall apart ........ and everything after it and NATO itself

    Well, the whole plan was revealed, so you had to chat?
  • Egoza
    Egoza 26 September 2013 18: 24 New
    +3
    On September 29 in Kiev, a meeting of Ukrainian citizens will be held for the referendum "For the Customs Union!" ...................... Venue of the meeting is September 29 of 2013 of the year at the Spartak stadium in Kiev (Frunze str.) ...................... http://ungu.org/?p=9868

    Who can - come or join the propagandists in advance!
  • Zomanus
    Zomanus 26 September 2013 18: 28 New
    +2
    Well, Ukraine will go to NATO. It is clear that she will go there exclusively, as a springboard for an attack on Russia. That is, in fact, service for airfields, ports, and the like. What for servants own weapons, their own defense industry?
  • Corsair5912
    Corsair5912 26 September 2013 18: 35 New
    +1
    In general, the transition to NATO standards is not a military-technical, but an economic and political problem. We, in fact, are talking about the historical choice of Ukraine, since standardization with the Alliance is a transition to the Western sphere of influence. In this case, all the talk about preserving the non-aligned status of the country is a simple shaking of the air.

    It’s interesting how Svidomo Ukrainians get along with non-fit sexяKami, Romanians and others with territorial claims to Ukraine?
    Они же эту нату пополам разорвут, когда делёж начнётся. Пытались однажды поляки создать единую Польску "от можа до можа" да что-то не то получилось.
    Не споются они, "ще не вмерла...", или "щё ... не сгинела", а смысл один, то и гляди не вмерлет, так сгинеет такой разношёрстый блок.
  • sigdoc
    sigdoc 26 September 2013 18: 47 New
    +1
    Ukraine seems to soon repeat the fate of Yugoslavia, the Tatars will begin to divide the territory, Europe will side with the Tatars, Kiev will close its eyes
  • Koronik
    Koronik 26 September 2013 18: 53 New
    0
    Yeah why not? I think we should try to get it possible. And we will benefit from all the secret information with us. You can ruin it from the inside. In front of Ukraine.
  • IGS
    IGS 26 September 2013 19: 05 New
    +1
    Rather, it is a declaration of intent.
    Надо напомнить, что НАТО с создавалось и существует как блок против России. Т.е. Украина заявила о том что намерена быть против России,и о каких "братских отношениях" может идти речь? Украина становится нашим врагом... печально. Но еще раз бы стоило им вспомнить произведение "Тарас Бульба", и как поступают с предателями, даже если они были когда-то родными. Не хочу нагнетать, но украинцы уже стреляли в наших солдат, в той же Чечне, а теперь эти с..и сидят у себя в Украине и хвастаются этим, не скрываясь ни от кого. Знаю, что нормальные люди остались ещё на Украине, дай Бог чтобы они взяли верх... если нет... история повторяется, только , думаю, на этот раз этот фарс будет очень болезненным для Украины. И жаловаться отныне на плохих русских не стоит.
  • Mercenary
    Mercenary 26 September 2013 19: 11 New
    0
    guys it’s all on purpose Ukraine got the task of getting into NATO and eventually breaking up the bloc, there is Belovezhsky experience. love
  • major071
    major071 26 September 2013 19: 18 New
    +5
    Quote: major071
    Yes, denezhek on the transition to NATO standards need a lot. And they simply are not.
    Switch to a standard dry soldier of a NATO soldier, but without Ukrainian fat? They do not need such standards.

    I wanted to make a joke about suhpay and fat, sparked a discussion. lol
    1. GREAT RUSSIA
      GREAT RUSSIA 26 September 2013 20: 56 New
      0
      Quote: major071
      Quote: major071
      Yes, denezhek on the transition to NATO standards need a lot. And they simply are not.
      Switch to a standard dry soldier of a NATO soldier, but without Ukrainian fat? They do not need such standards.

      I wanted to make a joke about suhpay and fat, sparked a discussion. lol

      Nothing. But the discussion was hot and interesting at the same time.
  • 020205
    020205 26 September 2013 19: 31 New
    -1
    The article is fat when there is a fat minuscule article every day about Ukraine, there’s nothing more to write about? Zadolbala, they already want this topic so let them even go to NATO at least to Sr @ ku, their problems are that you pester them, as if it is Kaliningrad in NATO The EU has gathered, I had a granny from Ukraine myself, and now I have to sob over this slutty nenko dressed in a yellow and blue dress? They don’t want to live with us, not their West, not the East, so their problems are already sickened with this whining , this is a sovereign state and the leaders elected by their people have the right to make decisions as they see fit, I’m more brothers and not Ukrainians, I need to forgive and let them go for a long time, anyway they won’t go anywhere
    1. SAG
      SAG 26 September 2013 20: 54 New
      -4
      oh wrong you! the topic is very resonant !! in the event Ukraine joins NATO, it will have to shoot at each other in a global (or local, for example, in the same Syria) conflict ... if you do not care, I'm sorry for you!
      The second moment, when they finally understand that promises and real mutually beneficial cooperation are two different things, under the pressure of the civil majority, Ukraine will make a 180 turn ... only this time it will come with ruined industry, a lot of Western loans and a lot of social problems ... which Russia will decide at the expense of our funds!
      And the last: if all-time pride turns out to be stronger than common sense (which is unlikely), then Russia will face a large flow of refugees from the East of Uraina.
      prospects not ice right?
  • shtanko.49
    shtanko.49 26 September 2013 19: 34 New
    0
    And what will happen to Crimea, they will give the Turks? There was such an agreement that Crimea-Sevastopol can only belong to Russia, if not, then it leaves Turkey.
  • Altona
    Altona 26 September 2013 21: 17 New
    +1
    Да не суверенитет не впишется, а бюджет...Заставят всё советское распилить и разрушить, чтобы закупить западное...И будет весьма мобильная армия, с одним танком, парой самолетов и вечно стоящей у стенки подлодкой "Запорожье"...Почему мобильная? Потому что в каждом селе найдется шмат сала и краюха хлеба, а в сараях вилы и топоры...Так что носить воинам с собой ничего не придется...
  • 020205
    020205 26 September 2013 22: 43 New
    +1
    Quote: SAG
    oh wrong you! the topic is very resonant !! in the event Ukraine joins NATO, it will have to shoot at each other in a global (or local, for example, in the same Syria) conflict ... if you do not care, I'm sorry for you!
    The second moment, when they finally understand that promises and real mutually beneficial cooperation are two different things, under the pressure of the civil majority, Ukraine will make a 180 turn ... only this time it will come with ruined industry, a lot of Western loans and a lot of social problems ... which Russia will decide at the expense of our funds!
    And the last: if all-time pride turns out to be stronger than common sense (which is unlikely), then Russia will face a large flow of refugees from the East of Uraina.
    prospects not ice right?

    so I tell you, they themselves have chosen their own government, this is the constitutional will of the people, they have chosen their own president, and with regard to the conflict in Syria, I have absolutely one place where to shoot at Ukrainians or who else they’ll be gangsters at any rate on the side of bandits, Ukraine is not my brother-in-law to me except a distant relative, and to me, as a taxpayer, this one of the relaxed areas with loans and a lot of haemorrhoids didn’t bother where there is a majority now that should unfold their country, which is incomprehensible and fiddled with independence ? In my opinion, in vain, and in the case of emigrants and refugees, let them get visas, if they want customs, they will have real customs. As Leontyev said in the latest issue, however
    1. polly
      polly 26 September 2013 23: 45 New
      0
      "Ukraine is moving to NATO standards." Какой-то ,прямо скажем, недостаточно умный и прозорливый политик-самоучка, целый народ тянет ,куда ему хочется, не думая о последствиях! Нехай просто сам лично перейдет на их гейропейские стандарты: еще лучше будут втроем смотреться!
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  • Capoeirista
    Capoeirista 11 October 2013 12: 46 New
    0
    Quote: Natalia
    After all, it’s no secret that Ukraine doesn’t need a strong NATA.

    NATU generally no one needs strong.